# Chaos in my 120g-HELP PLS!!



## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Problem tank: 120g

Inhabitants: 2 mated pairs of gold marble angelfish and one female smokey, 7 black phantom, 5 hy511, 6 lemon, 6 red phantom tetras, 2 tiger plecos, nerite snails.

Plants: amazon swords, crypt balansae, needleleaf java fern, anubias (nana, barteri, lanceolata,) rotala, stargrass, brazilian pennywort.

Filter: Eheim 2075, rinsed once a month, thoroughly clean every 2 moths, I don't change media, really, (once a year, 1/3) maybe I should more often? 

ph=7.2
kh=2
gh=4
ammonia=0
nitrite=0
nitrate=>5ppm

*no pressurized co2, no Excel used
30-40% w/cs every 7-10 days, I vacuum gravel where there are no plants. What else?


OK, where to start? I guess with the first issue that presented itself. So this is going back about 1 1/2 years ago. I added some juvie black phantoms to my 120g tank after quarantining them for a month. They then didn't seem to grow properly, remained dwarfed, and 3 of the females' bellies became so swollen (most of the time, occasionally it would go back to normal), I thought they would burst. I left them alone just thinking they were egg bound, they always survived, ate, and swam as normally as they could.

Then, out of the blue, about a month or two ago, I noticed my 5 year old male angelfish was getting 'fat'. I left him alone just thinking he was becoming overweight and fed him veg flakes for a bit. He had just mated with my 8 year old female angelfish, and they had just went through the whole course of fanning eggs and protecting fry till they couldn't anymore with the other fish when........

The very next day after the fry had been eaten, my 7 year old female angel was badly bloated all over. I couldn't believe my eyes. Her eyes were protruding as well, but she was still eating and swimming as much as she could (a bit like a penguin). She looked horrible, so I took her out and put her in a 33g cycled, planted, currently fishless tank and added epsom salts. She remained the same for a day or two.

Meanwhile, in the 120g, I noticed her mated partner was not as interested in his surroundings. Wanted more to stay at the bottom (odd for him) in a corner then to eat right away. Then I noticed accentuated redness at the pivot point of his pectoral fins (both sides) and maybe his vent area? (it's hard to remember if he always had that colour, I have the flora max light (very red) and he has a bit of koi in him. He was noticeably fatter in the abdominal area, and his eyes were a bit poppy too. So I put him with his female in the 33g and made them some Maracyn 2 pellets with garlic.

I think it was too late for her  she couldn't eat it by then, so I euthanized her. He was still eating enthusiastically, so I continued the treatment for about 1 1/2 weeks. But the last three days, he won't eat very well anymore. He hides when I enter the room and won't even look at me. He knows he's sick. He is still bloated and his eyes are still a bit swollen, but the redness on one side of his pectoral fin looks decreased, possibly normal.

Then, 2 days ago, (obviously, I am keeping a very close eye now on the fish in the 120g) I noticed my other female 5 year-old angelfish just looks funny. Her forehead looks bumpy? and round, she almost looks like she's slouching, dorsal fin flopping back or limp. Then, when I looked closer, I think I see white patches on her forehead, not fungus, but like her skin tissue is rotting, it looks like it's falling off?, but no pitting. She is eating, but I haven't seen her become gravid in a bit kind of think of it. 

Stupidly, before I knew there was an actual problem, about a month ago, I swapped angelfish from my 120g to my 90g, so a blue male was taken out and a smokey female was added to the 120g. She immediately laid two clutches of eggs, for which she didn't find a partner and they were never fertilized. But I haven't seen a clutch in a while and she does not appear gravid at all. What I notice with her is that she looks pale. She was smokier in the 90g. Could be the lights, idk, but she also hangs out at the bottom and it takes her a while to realise she is being fed. I wouldn't know if this is normal, she is new to me (from a friends' tank) but I don't think it's normal for an angelfish-period.

I know there is a problem, the symptoms are similar but different at the same time and I just don't know which meds to use where, and in what order. I am primarily concerned with the male angel in the 33g right now, I think his ailment is the most pressing. I now have possible three tanks to treat, (because I swapped the blue angel into my 90g) and I don't know what the problem is exactly. I feel so overwhelmed.

Pls help!!!!!! Any advice will be considered. I am going to my trusted LFS today, but I would appreciate anyone's input or experience. I have not had any issues in years, and have no idea what's going on, but to day I have a multitude of illness out of the blue in a tank with good params?


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## corina savin (Jul 11, 2012)

How does the poop look like?


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Can you post some pics of the fish?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Poop. Hmmmm. I think it's okay, but I will observe further. I had pics, but my SD card messed up and deleted everything. I will take more pics tomorrow. Thanks for replying for now. I went to my LFS today and had a lengthy discussion. I left with some kanaplex to use in the 33g for my bloated male angelfish, since I thought he needed immediate attention. The 120g, I am needing to further study. I added the first dose of kanaplex to the 33g tonight.

Edit: Wait, I just found one pic. It's a shot of one of the pectoral fins of the angelfish that is now in the 33g. He was in the 120g at the time of the pic. Maybe you can see his protruding eyes here? You can see his bloated belly.


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

I ended up taking some pics. The evening light is on, so not the greatest. But here they are. First two, pics of my worst tummy bloated phantom at the moment. I feel this is more than egg bound. Also after getting some info from the LFS, I see tiny black pin marks on their bellies. I couldn't get it on the camera. 

Next one is showing my female angelfish with the bumpy forehead and whitish haze on her forehead. Not sure if that's visible here really. She is the one that appears to be slouching. 

Third pic is my 'smokey' angelfish, not looking so smokey. In the 90g, her back half was pretty dark, a bit chocolate colour, now it looks grey to me. She continues to hide at the bottom of the tank, still eating a bit, not too enthusiastic and I noticed she seems to be breathing fast. I don't know if that's normal for her, but it seems fast to me for an angel.


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## Jasperdog (Jul 12, 2014)

Interesting tried peas? They help bloating


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

No, I didn't try peas, but when I originally noticed the 'fatness' on the later bloated male angel, I fed them all veg flakes and pellets for a bit. It did not help any for him. But I still thought he was overeating at that point. The epsom salts is what I've used in the past with veg flakes to relieve constipation with success for my fish. This time it didn't seem to help.

Update: The male bloated angelfish in the 33g seemed quite responsive to food yesterday and tonight. He still looks fat, and his eyes are still buggy, but I think it may be improving. I will continue kanamycin treatment for now in his tank. Deal with another med later if I have to. 

Advice is still welcome!!! I still haven't treated anything in the 120g, not wanting to throw in meds necessarily. The fish are still the same in there too.


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## Jasperdog (Jul 12, 2014)

U MUST FEED THEM PEAS DUDE stop feedinf the normal food! you are just making things worse you are killing ur fish , if they are bloated then nothing passes through the stomach ( I think) and if u keep fedding them normal food it WILL clog the stomach and the fish WILL die. Just look up videos on how to feed peas to fish on youtube... try it 1-2 pea per fish see if it will help. I had bloated fish once fed it a pea THEN BOOM it was a lootttttt better. Remember not too much pea and only feed it to them once a week 1 time a day.. here is a good schedule for u... day 1: Peas 1 time a day. Day 2: A bit of flake maybe 1 pellet once a day repeat til day 7 then do the pea thing if still bloated. .. but yea keep us updated on the fish
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Peas are only good once in a while, to clear stuff out. If the fish is bloated dont try peas.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Thank you two for your input. 

Jasperdog: I know what you're getting at with the peas. Any vegetable high in fiber is good for this. I too saved a fish with the fiber and epsom salts method, (ironically the same fish 4 years ago, back then, I saw him eat a whole matted bundle of white worms in one gulp which are extremely high in protein and can cause fish constipation). I would say he was constipated if his eyes weren't bulgy, and I didn't see any redness in the pectoral fin area, but unfortunately, I think I am dealing with something more serious than constipation this time. But thank you for your knowledge. I will keep this thread updated.


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## Jasperdog (Jul 12, 2014)

What brand pellets?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Question: Based on the pic of the bloated angelfish (1st pic), am I over reacting with the redness at the pivot point of his pectoral fin? Because I am leaning toward septicemia, and I really hope it's not. If you need more pic, let me know!!!


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Jasperdog said:


> What brand pellets?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spectrum 'discus formula' soaked in maracyn 2 and garlic. I may make more with kanamycin, instead of using two antibiotics.


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## Jasperdog (Jul 12, 2014)

Thats nice


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Tonight, I am adding dose no2 of Kanaplex into my 33g with the bloated angel. I still haven't noticed any poops in the problem tanks. So, nothing new in the 120g, fish are still eating, I haven't treated it with anything yet. My bloated angel is still a bit bloated, eyes are still a bit bulgy, still look red/pink on the pectorals, but he is more alert, eating, and otherwise looks normal.


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

I figured something out for the 120g. The black phantoms with swollen bellies. I found out fish with tapeworms have swollen bellies and show a reduction in growth. This has to be what my stunted, almost ready to burst black phantoms have. Now to find the best meds and deal with my angelfish with the bacterial infection.


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## Jasperdog (Jul 12, 2014)

uh oh, dude that sucks! at least u found what the problem is!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Ya, diagnosing (I hope I'm right here) is half the battle.


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

So, update on the bloated angelfish in the 33g: Today, his pectoral fins look back to normal!! I dosed his tank a third time with Kanaplex as per the instructions. I think he might pull through!!! I will probably have to use some parasite med on him too after he fights off the bacterial infection. I am optimistic that this will be resolved. I will keep this post updated in order to maybe help others.


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

I think the bloated angelfish is cured of his bacterial infection. Besides a bit of a bloated belly, he looks/acts like he's back to normal. Now decision making time. Do I put him back in the 120g and treat everybody for internal parasites? Tapeworms, I think? Or do I take out the sickest looking fish (the three female black phantoms) and treat them separately in the 33g where the male angelfish was? I could imagine a huge parasite release in the 120g when I deworm them.


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## Jasperdog (Jul 12, 2014)

Don't put the angel in 120 yet you might have to wait a few days to really tell if the disease is fully cured, + still bloated idk about that. I think you might have to test all the fish


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Me too, I planned on treating them all for tapeworms, I think it might take a while, I plan to Prazi the water/tank and feed them metronidazole food for a while. I will probably prazi that and again every month or two just to make sure I get all the worms. I just wasn't sure if I could treat them all together in one tank. I agree, I should wait for the angel and his bacterial infection, thanks for slowing me down. It's just hose black phantoms are stupid infested and I was worried about releasing all those worms at once. I will think about it some more.


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

*Update*: I PraziPro'd the 120g with all the fish and the 33g with the male bloated angel 3 days ago. The very next day, the smokey angel regained her strata position at the top instead of hiding at the bottom, has some colour back and is more enthusiastic about eating. My female gold pearlscale angel looks like she might be getting ready to breed, idk, but she was twitching at her mate. (this is what she does) The male gold angel always looked fine. The female black phantoms look ok, except the really bloated one, she is still the same. I still see little black dots on parts of their bellies, don't know if this is normal. One of them also hides still. All the other tetras still look and act fine.

So, I've noticed an improvement after the prazi treatment. Not everything is perfect, but things are more back to normal, the tetras thing has been present for 1 1/2 years. I may try some metronidazole and Fenben (if I can find it) medicated food and see if the black phantoms feel better. I am not sure whether or not to feed the whole tank, or separated the black phantoms and treat/feed them separately, since the other fish seem to be doing better.

My bloated male angelfish is just looking a bit fat now, probably normal, I get paranoid. I stopped feeding him antibiotics, and will just keep everything as is till the seven days of prazi treatment are up.


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

*The 50/50 ending*: The 120g hasn't seen any problems since the plecos left (were sold due to circular marks on the angelfish and missing scales). The phantom's belly is still very swollen, like it has been for years, and I have decided it is a tumour. The gold pearlscale angelfish (the only ones in the tank now) are spawning again. So, one dose of the PraziPro worked with no issues. I am not concerned with this tank and parasites/bacteria anymore, and deem it safe. 

But for my bloated angel in the 33g, his condition worsened, and I had to humanely euthanize him. The treatment of Kanamycin in the water and feeding him maracyn II mediated food did not benefit this angelfish at that stage of the disease/infection. His tank has been empty for months, so I will be able to house more fish in it soon.

As long as I am careful and don't bring anything home without first quarantining it, I feel everything is back to normal.


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