# Electric Blue Jack Dempsey - Hole in the head



## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Hi all! It's been quite a while since I have written a post on here. About 3-4 weeks ago I got this Electric Blue Jack Dempsey (Female) from my friend. His tank has a lot of aggressive fish in it and isn't very clean.

Sue Shi, what we have named her, got sick in his tank with hole in the head disease and has a few other patches on her body. 

After doing some reading through some of the other threads, I saw some suggestions like feeding: Metronidazole laced flakes 

Also, If possible, slowly raise the temperature. 86-90 F.

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...er-angel-fish-hole-head-419506/#ixzz36Q5vr9nX

*Thoughts on that?*

I have the tank 77/78F at the moment. She has been eating cichlid pellets that I feed all my other cichlids. She has finally been starting to act normal too. 

I wanted to know if she will always have the hole in her head? If it will keep getting larger? If the white spots on her side are anything to worry about? Her belly is also slightly sunken in. I'm wondering if this is the same issue Chesh and I both dealt with when we both got our Bolivian Rams. I have attached four image 

I have her in a 29 gallon tank right now as her hospital tank until I get a permanent solution set up. I have a spare 75 gallon tank but I'm moving in two months so I might let her sit in the hospital until I move. I would like to keep her at work but I don't think she should be in a 29 by herself. Although, if anyone thinks it'd be alright I would like to keep her in the office.

I also have a small albino bristlenose pleco that I could put in there and not over-do the stocking. Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments? All welcome. 

Here are some pictures of her and a video so you can see, in detail, all her injuries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQM0HTl65hc


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

*Help?*

She was doing great all of last week. Today I came in and she has basically been at the bottom of the tank, not eating at all (we put in a few pellets and waited two hours and then had to take them out because she wouldn't eat). 

I'm a little worried. I checked the water and it has a little bit of nitrite in it (about .25 ppm) so I did a water change. I'm not exactly sure why the nitrite came up because I finished cycling last week. 

She has sat here all day, moved around a little and then comes back and sits for a while. Here is a picture of her. It's a little cloudy because of the water change I did.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm sorry you thread hasn't been answered. She looks very thin to me and my mind goes immediately to parasites. Has she ever been treated?


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Flint said:


> I'm sorry you thread hasn't been answered. She looks very thin to me and my mind goes immediately to parasites. Has she ever been treated?


Thanks for the reply Flint. 

Yes, she is very skinny. She has the same sunken belly that a lot of cichlids will get from LFS'. She has never been treated for parasites. She was in my friends tank for almost 2 years untreated. 

I have a lot of the medication at home too so I can bring in some of it tomorrow to treat the tank.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I would go ahead and treat her for internal parasites, then. I think if you can get those knocked out, things will get better.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

*Problem with her fin now *

Thanks Flint!

Today I also notice she wasn't using her fin very much. I took a video and a picture of it so you all can see. Both fins look the same where they connect to her body but the one she isn't using has prominent white areas on them. The white areas don't stick out it's just white on that area. Does that make sense?

I just did my weekly water change in the tank so that's why all the little specs are everywhere. I always do one on Friday because she sits alone through the weekend. 

Here is the video: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=64534A8BC6848D65!1429&authkey=!AKrj5252Cz0rEM4&ithint=video%2c.mp4

If you look up, those white spots weren't there yesterday. The big white chunk on her side is where I think a fish bit her while she was in my friends tank.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm thinking it could be that she rubbed up against the stick or one of the rocks while flashing. She has been twitching a little bit because of the parasites. I checked all parameters just now and we have:

0ppm - Ammonia
0ppm - Nitrite
~7ppm - Nitrate

Since the water change, she has been looking better.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Can you raise your temp to 88F for me? Just in case the flashing is due to a bout of ich. You can lower it again after two weeks. I would try some melafix for the fin maybe? Looks to be superficial. Stress coat may be beneficial in place of the melafix depending on what you have.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Flint said:


> Can you raise your temp to 88F for me? Just in case the flashing is due to a bout of ich. You can lower it again after two weeks. I would try some melafix for the fin maybe? Looks to be superficial. Stress coat may be beneficial in place of the melafix depending on what you have.


I ran out of melafix but I do have API's super ich cure if Ich does start showing.

I'll have to stop and get more melafix. I'll slowly turn the temperature up and get it up near 88F. Do you think adding salt will help? I have aquarium salt.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Don't add salt or ich meds. 88F for two weeks kills ich.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Awesome. I got the tank up to 86F slowly throughout the last two days and I'll get it up to 88F by today.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Great! Thank you for doing it slowly, I forgot to mention! How is she today?


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Flint said:


> Great! Thank you for doing it slowly, I forgot to mention! How is she today?


Yesterday she was very lethargic and not moving very much. 

Today she has already eaten 5 pellets! That's more than she has eaten in a day in the past week. She is also moving around a lot more than yesterday and seems to be happy.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Great! Glad to hear.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

*Update*

Water is up to 88F and she is acting much better than yesterday. I've done a dose of *API's General Cure* and will be watching her over the next few days. 

She's turning into a fatty now. Will update later this week once medication round is completed. I'll also do another update 2 weeks from now when I turn the temperature down.

Thanks for all the help Flint. *Sue Shi* (that's her name) really appreciates it


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I don't know what's up with this fish...she was doing great moving around all happy. Eating like a vacuum. Today when I come in, she's at the bottom of the tank again. Temp is at 88F.

*Parameters Today:*
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: I had a spike in nitrate and it's between 20ppm and 30ppm (hard to read when it's that high because of the color. I don't know when the spike happened because the last time I checked the water was Friday where it was at approximately 7/10ppm).

I'm going to do a water change...40-50% and try and get the levels down to 5/10ppm. If it's not down by tomorrow, I'll do another water change tomorrow.

I have prime so I'm using that as well.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Also, can you use Seachem Prime WITH API's General Cure?


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't see why you couldn't, Prime is a water conditoner not a medicine. Powdered Prazi and Metronidazole is what's in API GC if you are interested in more concentrated doses.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I just did the final water change for the API's GC. The water parameters are pretty much normal with still too much Nitrate (it went down though to around 10/15ppm).

She wasn't eating too much yesterday and hasn't been pooping too much. I fed her peas today in hopes to get her to poop more. She ate 4 peas and an entire normal meal. She's not completely lethargic but does sit at the bottom quite often. 

I'll post another update after the weekend. I'm going to NYC over the weekend so I'm having my co-worker who comes in over the weekend check on her and feed her.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

How did you treat for internal parasites? The GC?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Flint said:


> How did you treat for internal parasites? The GC?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. Over the weekend my co-worker said she ate all her food and was looking much better. I just came in this morning and she is looking wonderful. She's more active and bright. Ate her food immediately. The instant I saw her, I knew she was looking better.  

Will keep you posted on any changes. I'll leave the temperature at 88F for another week and then turn it down slowly.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

If she declines again, I would be interested in seeing you dose some PraziPro, maybe even Metro Meds. It's basically the same thing we can just do more concentrated doses.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Flint, you're an Angel. Thank you! I hope it doesn't happen but that is definitely comforting to know there will be options if she does decline again.

I also just got a new marineland hood for the tank with LED lighting. I can now use the blue light to get her used to the light and then turn it to white so it wont freak her out as much when the light comes on. I turn it to blue every day before I leave (which is before the light goes out) so that in the morning when it comes on, it's blue .


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Great! Is she still eating well?


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

She is eating like a vacuum cleaner. She feels so lonely though. I was thinking of bringing in a bristlenose pleco to room with her in the tank. What do you think about that? I wouldn't bring the pleco in for another month until she's fully healthy though.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Doesn't she have pleco tankmates already?


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Flint said:


> Doesn't she have pleco tankmates already?


She used to have catfish and cories in there. Right now she has no tank mates because I placed her in the hospital tank.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Oh okay! How large is her tank, what friends does she have now and can I see a photo of the main tank? I can give you better suggestions that way.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Flint said:


> Oh okay! How large is her tank, what friends does she have now and can I see a photo of the main tank? I can give you better suggestions that way.


Here are my tanks:
*150 Gallon *

24" Male Sailfin Pleco (15/16 years old)
8/9" Female Sailfin Pleco (Age Unkown)
Albino Male Bristlenose Pleco (Age Unknown but most likely under a year old. The female Sailfin is territorial against him)
3 Severum Cichlids (I think Mated Pair but can't tell because they haven't spawned and a younger one)
Unknown Cichlid (will take a picture tonight to ID)
YoYo Loaches (3 young, 1 full grown, all ages uknown)
2 Catfish (I have to get which type from my friend I got them from)
Goldfish (which will be moved out of this tank soon)
2 Kribensis (Mated Pair, full grown, female is 2.5 years old and male is unknown age)
2 Beta fish (Mated Pair)
12 Harlequin Rasboras (I used to have over 30...I've counted 4 that have jumped out of the tank and the other...14 have died over time and I think at least 4-5 of them were eaten...i don't know by who though. it's really frustrating because there is no sign of any aggression towards them.)
Moderate snail population, the kribensis keep them under control. 
*75 Gallon*

2 Scalare Angel Cichlids (Mated Pair, Full Grown, Age Unknown)
Bolivian Ram (Male, 2.5 years old)
Albino Bristlenose Pleco (Male, 2.5 years old)
Zebra L199 Pleco (Unknown Sex, age Unknown)
20-30 Bronze Cory Catfish (There are so many and so many little ones, I can't count them all, ages ranging from 2.5 to a few days old)
2 Julii Cories (might be false Julii though)
7 Neon Tetras (7 have died over the past 2 years)
5 Rummy Nose Tetras (2 have died over the past 2 years)
Very heavy snail population, I keeping removing some and putting them in the 150 for population control
*29 Gallon*

Female Electric Blue Jack Dempsey (Age Unknown)
3 snails

The 75 is fully planted. The 150 is not.

All snails are Ramshorn Snails. 

The reason I want to bring in the Male Albino Bristlenose from the 150 gallon is because he is starting to get bullied at home. I know the 29 isnt'...ideal for the Jack Dempsey but it was all i could put her in at work. I have an extra 75 gallon tank I'm trying to convince the CEO of the company to let me set up here at work...BUT...we'll see how that goes. I have no more room at home for anything bigger than a 29 at the moment. 

I'm going to be setting up a hospital tank at home because the one at work is completely taken over by the Jack Dempsey. The main reason for some of the weird stocking arrangements, low number of yoyos and Julii's is because some of these fish I rescued from bad fish keepers, some were given to me by fish keepers who didn't want to keep fish anymore and some were inherited from a fish keeper who died. I bought the 150 to house the 24" pleco. He was living in a 90 Gallon tank for the past few years and it was the biggest home I could afford to give him at the time. Ideally I want to put the Jack Dempsey in a 75 but...the stocking arrangement doesn't allow for that at the moment. 

For images, please see the aquarium tab under my username (to the left). I have recent pictures of all three tanks on there.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Oh, I thought the hospital tank wasn't her main tank. Okay, I understand now. You could move the BN over. You could even add a female as well should you so please. A 29 really isn't _terrible_ for an EBJD, they are less active than regular JDs but a 75 would be ideal. Maybe try to talk him into a 50? A 50 could be her home for life or you could say 50 and bring in a 55. :dunno:


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Soooo I came into work today to find the tank completely clouded up. You couldn't see through it. There is a big rock in the middle of the tank that was laying on it side. I didn't see her immediately and was concerned. When I moved the rock, I had to feel behind it to find her...she was smashed under the rock and suffocated to death. 

This rock was wedged into place so this wouldn't happen so she would have had to ram into the rock full force (which I saw evidence of on her body when I pulled her out). Someone must have spooked her for her to go this crazy, because when she was flashing, she didn't go that hard. 

Thank you everyone for all the help. It's very unfortunate that after all the care and attempts to save her, she had to be taken by a rock.

FYI: When I placed the rock in there, I wedged that thing hard into place. I couldn't move it in any direction. I don't know how she moved that thing out of place.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Aww, so sad!! Maybe next time use some aquarium silicone or GE Silicone I (not II) to secure it even better. I'm sorry. ):


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Thanks Flint! I didn't even think of that. I will keep that in mind for the future.


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