# Dwarf puffers tank layout



## Nilet699

Ok so went into the lfs today and asked then to order me some of these lil beauties, will be a few weeks though which is really good actuakkynas gives me a chance to get their tank properly 'furnished' before their arrival. They will be in the tank attached below.

This tank is fully established, but I want to scrap it and start afresh. The substrate I think should be changed for play sand and then plants in there won't be used, they will all be new ones depending upon suggestions etc. Tank size is 24 x 12 x 12.

Know they need a planted tank with different areas to break up line of sight and establish territories etc. What else do they need though? Is caves a necessity? Tank has wood which you can see but if there is a better layout am happy to get new in to suit it better.

Any suggestions and even better pictures of established puffer tanks would be greatly appreciated!

Nile


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## jentralala

Can't wait to see how this thread progresses, dwarf puffers are so adorable. Just curious though, what's that plant in the back right corner?


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## Byron

Lots and lots of plants. Puffers do not need open swimming areas, so the tank can literally be thick with plants.

If your cabomba in the pictured tank is doing well under your light (this plant needs good light), this is a good plant. And Wisteria would be another, also needing light and fast growing. Floating plants with dangling roots (Water Sprite) are good. All of these mentioned are fast growing and will need weekly tgrimming/pruning at the water change obviously.

Byron.


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## Nilet699

Well therein lies my problem Byron. It currently has a 9w house energy saving bulb in. BUT I got some kitchen LEDs today and am about to change them from hardwired to plug in! Give me 30 and I'll post up a pic if I don't blow my houses electrics!,

Th cabomba though will be going. I hate how much it sheds! It's already been ommitted from my bigger tank and replaced with echinodorus blaheri! So I definitely need an alternative for this!

Good to know that they don't need open swimming areas! Will make planting it much easier! 

And Jen, all the plants in that tank now are cabomba, singles are just some off cuts I kept to see how they did under the low light, plant on right is just bunch of them!


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## Nilet699

Ok, I did it. Daddy has new toys. Haha. Pic below. 
12 lights on each strip, 4 strips. Description just says 'hassle led strip light 0.8w'

Any idea if these will grow low/med/high plants?


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## Byron

Nilet699 said:


> Th cabomba though will be going. I hate how much it sheds! It's already been ommitted from my bigger tank and replaced with echinodorus blaheri! So I definitely need an alternative for this!


Ah, then the light is insufficient at least for cabomba. This is what happens when stem plants do not receive sufficient light, they slowly fall apart. I have no luck with cabomba for this reason, but I have no intention of increasing my light just for one plant, so I go with those that will manage.

And among stem plants, Brazilian Pennywort is very good for moderate light. Most others will not last.

Swords also work, though most get rather large, but if you can find the chain sword (not the pygmy chain sword, it is smaller) this is one option. Corkscrew Vallisneria will also work if you have medium hard or harder water, and with decent light.

What fixture do you have, an incandescent (screw-in bulbs) or fluorescent tube? Assuming incandescent, how many bulb sockets?

To move along to the answer...if it has two sockets then 2 CFL bulbs will work fine. You can get "Daylight" bulbs, GE make a good one but so do Phillips and Sylvania, and they come in various wattages and here the higher watts is more light. I use two 10w Daylight CFL over my 10g and 20g tanks; Cabomba failed in the 10g, but everything else is thriving. Two 13w bulbs might work.

Byron.


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## Boredomb

I agree much more plants are needed. How many puffers did you have them order? Your tank is 15 gallons and I wouldn't recommend more then 3 in there at the most.
Caves are not really needed as much as plants and driftwood or any decor to break up the line of sight. What type of filter do you plan on running on this tank?


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## Nilet699

They havent ordered them yet, i will get a call before Wednesday with the price for them and then i order what i want. I was thinking 3/4, quite a few people said get 4, and i did kind of want 2 and 2, though i am now thinking 1 male, 2 fems. 

Byron, did you see the new lights? Got some yummy LED's now for it which should definitely make a difference, as they seem so bright! Still no cabomba though!
Was thinking of some anacharis maybe, and yes, some swords. I am going to finally order some echinodorus tennelus for my big tank, so was thinking of putting a few of the baby runners into the smaller one maybe later. Also thought about Heteranthera zosterifoli. I'd also like a nice stem plant or 2, and the luwiga is a good option! About as far as i've got with the plants plan. I'm really still trying to learn the plant side of things tbh. I suck at names!

Was definitely thinking of dropping one of the 3 pieces of drift wood in the tank though for more plants too. Just hope these new lights will support them;

these are the bulbs;
B&Q Select Apex Under Cabinet White LED Lighting Kit, Pack of 4, 0000003744628


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## Nilet699

Oh the filter BB that i currently have in there is a fluval U2. I have thought about possibly upgrading this, though would _prefer_ not to.


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## Boredomb

Males are aggressive to each other especially if females are present. I had 2 males attack one another and one ended up dieing. A 15 gallon isn't big enough even being heavily planted for 2 males. I would go with 1m and 2 females. Also do you know what you plan on feeding your puffers? If you don't already know theses puffers can be really picky eaters.


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## Nilet699

Ok, so 1 male and 2 females then  

food? i was going to gift them flakes and algae wafers.

haha, no i've looked into the complexity of their eating and how fussy some/all of them are! I know it is very likely to be all live foods, but i'll still be hoping i can convince for frozen too ;-)


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## Boredomb

LoL ok then you already know that you might need live foods. Good.
Blackworms or white worms are accepted by most and so are snails.
I have mine on Frozen bloodworms now but live blackworms were needed at first and I got them to switch over after some work. As before getting live foods in my area was next to impossible.


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## Nilet699

I know, you even had to beg the local lfs guy for some of his personal supply he was using to feed his/shops fish! ;-)

Shop i'm getting them from has a decent supply of live food tbh, cant remember them all but am SURE there is blackworms there. There actually a major chain of fish shops BUT aren't like walmart etc, they are really quite good tbh. Called maidenhead and out of the local lfs's probably the best - plus i know a guy who works there and i HAMMER him for info


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## Boredomb

LoL guessing you have read some.of my post I take it. 
I have since gotten some Blackworms and started my own culture. Will never run out again as long as I can keep it going. Other worms you can look for are Whiteworms and Grindal worms. They might even eat Microworms,Banana worms, or Walter worms if they have them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Well i have NO idea what them last 3 are but i'll look them up.

And yes, ive read through your post  And looked at your aquarium. Which confuses me, both you and byron say heavily planted, but i wouldnt class your tank as such, seems to be a lot of open space there?


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## Boredomb

I only have one puffer in my tank. The smaller the tank and the more puffers you put in there is the issue. What thread of mine have you looked though? This one http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/aquarium-photography/puffer-tank-118860/page21/#post1380805 There are more plants in there then you would think. I have about 6 anubias that you can't see from the pics that are in the middle and in the back of the tank. Though I can see where you are coming from. Its not as planted as I would like it and I need more.


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## Nilet699

Oh god, I wasn't being critical etc, just wondered what people's idea of heavily planted was really.

LESs for tank not quite done yet. Having the saw through and file flat sections in the lid, in the centre from front to bottom of lid there is a thin strip of plastic if you know what I mean. And don't want the light having to go up and over, want them flush to the lid! Very annoying though!


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## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> Oh god, I wasn't being critical etc, just wondered what people's idea of heavily planted was really.


I didn't tank offense to the comment soo alls good. 
No, I wouldn't consider mine to be a heavily planted tank.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Right with these LEDs I've got, and the fact that they literally plug into each other and are flexible, I could quite literally cover my hood in lights, aka grow what I want. I'd like to have something that doesn't look the same as tom, dick and Harry's tank so is there any suggestions of plants more rare/less used etc. Maybe even with some colour thrown in, though I do like all green still.


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## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> Right with these LEDs I've got, and the fact that they literally plug into each other and are flexible, I could quite literally cover my hood in lights, aka grow what I want. I'd like to have something that doesn't look the same as tom, dick and Harry's tank so is there any suggestions of plants more rare/less used etc. Maybe even with some colour thrown in, though I do like all green still.


I am not the best at picking out plants soo I will let other suggest some. I also have no experience with LEDS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Here's another idea someone suggested to me. A puffer fish biotope. They come from th river panba India, BUT I cant find anything on the indigenous plants there:-/


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## Nilet699

Ok, so i managed to find a good list that matches others of plants that are found in the DP'S natural habitat/region.
these are;

*Scientific Name	Common Name	Light Requirement	Difficulty*
Aponogeton crispus	Crinkled or Ruffled Aponogeton	3.0 wpg	Easy/Medium
Aponogeton ulvaceus	Compact Aponogeton	2.0 - 3.0 wpg	Medium/Challenging
Aponogeton undulatus	2.0 - 3.0 wpg	Easy/Moderate
Cryptocoryne beckettii	Beckett's Cryptocoryne	2.0 - 3.0 wpg	Easy/Medium
Cryptocoryne walkeri var. lutea 1.0+ wpg	Easy
Cryptocoryne parva	Tiny Cryptocoryne	4.0 wpg	Challenging
Cryptocoryne undulata	Undulate Cryptocoryne	3.0+ wpg	Medium/Challenging
Cryptocoryne wendtii	Crypt Wendtii	2.0 - 3.0 wpg	Easy/Medium
Cryptocoryne willisii 3.0 wpg	Easy/Medium
Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides 3.0+ wpg	Easy/Medium
Hygrophila corymbosa	Giant Hygrophila	2.0 - 3.0 wpg	Easy
Hygrophila difformis	Water Wysteria	3.0+ wpg	Medium
Hygrophila polysperma	Dwarf Hygrophila	3.0 wpg	Easy
Limnophila aquatica	Giant Ambulia	3.0+ wpg	Medium/Challenging
Limnophila sessiliflora	Dwarf Ambulia	3.0+ wpg	Easy
Microsorium pteropus	Java Fern	1.0+ wpg	Easy
Nymphaea lotus	Tiger Lotus	3.0 wpg	Medium/Challenging
Nymphaea stellata	Red and Blue Water Lily	3.0+ wpg	Medium
Rotala indica 3.0 wpg	Medium
Rotala macrandra	Giant Red Rotala	3.0+ wpg	Challenging/Difficult
Rotala rotundifolia	Dwarf rotala	3.0 wpg	Medium
Salvinia natans	Salvinia	3.0 wpg Medium
Vallisneria tortifolia	Twisted Vallisneria/Dwarf Vallisneria	3.0 wpg	Easy
Vesicularia dubyana	Java Moss	1.0+ wpg	Easy

This list actually gives me quite a few option that iv looked at and thought 'definitly!' so i think this, along with the opportunity to recreate somewhat their natural habitat would be great.

If anyone has any photos of DPs in their natural habitat, or anything else to chime in, feel free to post!


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## Nilet699

Ok, so picked up the sand today and have finally finished cleaning it after about 300 fill and rinses - HOW BORING is cleaning sand btw!?!? haha


Its obviously going to be a planted tank, how deep should the sand be? I've filled it with what i've cleaned and its approx 1.2 inches. More? Less? Or im hoping just right!!!


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## jentralala

I'd go a little bit deeper just to make room for roots. My tank is around 2/3 inches, and I still have a bit of trouble with large root systems 

Also just checked out that plant list. What about tossing in some Aponogeton bulbs? I can pick them up all day long at Walmart, you might have them cheap somewhere too 
They grow super fast and provide good coverage on top.


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## Nilet699

hmmm so deep? I read once you went past 2 inches you start having to worry about the build up of anaerobic bacteria? This shouldnt be a tank where its too easy to stir up large parts of it as i aim to plant and fill it as much as i can - and keep my puffers interested!


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## Nilet699

Ok, sands in, NO cloudiness at all 
There's the new water mini bubbles on the walls but water is clear  well worth all the washing!
And it looks AWESOME!


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## Freshcatch

What kind of sand did you put in your tank. It looks way bright white.


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## jentralala

Yeah, I read that too, which is kind of a bummer. I wouldn't do the whole tank super deep, just where you want big plants  Sand roots really well, but in my shallower areas it's hard to get the roots in. That came out all jumbled...

Oooh, what type of sand is that? It looks like two different kinds?


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## Nilet699

No it's just plain old play sand, which my lfs sold me pretty cheap, even compared to big diy stores. They stock it ss they know people like a cheaper option to aquarium sand- as its basically the same. Lol. I agree it's pretty light coloured, but most were I looked at. Maybe the UK has better standards than you lot  haha


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## Nilet699

Ok, i have a fluval U2 internal filter for this tank, looking for the best positioning for the tank/puffers. I had it back left corner facing along the back wall to the back right corner - should i leave this or have it stuck at the back left corner facing front left corner as you look at the tank etc? Probably makes no diff, assumed flow etc would be better down the back wall, but perhaps its better at a closer wall to break it up faster...oh i dont know.......


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## Nilet699

Here's the tank under the new leds...much brighter  think you can tell from the photos!
And then a pic of them on the hood now that I've finished off pliaring off tbh middle kind of support bar thing off the hood and installing them


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## Nilet699

Bah! Up and running....kept the water all nice, gave my filter a light clean.....switched it on......spits out small cabomba fibres. God I hate that plant! Gone for good now though! 
Went a bit ambitious with my first plant for the tank....to test the new light as much as anything.... it's ludwigia glandulosa. Fingers crossed!


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## AK Fresh Water

Nice plant.
How does LED lighting work? I know how many T5/T8 bulbs are needed to grow plants, but I have no clue how much LED is needed to grow properly.


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## Nilet699

Tbh AK neither do I! That's why I bought the plant in the lfs that had the highest light requirements and I'll see how it goes. Iv also not bought the perfect spectrum of light here iv bought the best house ones basically that I THINK will work..... so this is a bit of trial and error for me, but I had the expensive part of the kit knocking about so thought I right as well!


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## Sookielee

I am looking forward to your test the LED light you made. Once we get the 75 set up I will be starting on a very heavily planted 45. It will be so cool if your home-made LED lighting system works as you hope. I know mt other half could fashion me something similar toot-sweet, he is very handy.

Love the ideas you have for this tank, plus I am a bit jealous of the puffers. I have loved those for so long and maybe my 3rd tank will be for them. (don't even have tank 1 set up and running yet and I already suffer from MTS)


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## Nilet699

yeah i know MTS is a real problem. This will be tank 2 set up when its done. I already have tank 3 planned for an amano style aquascape for my kitchen, have drawn the layout, scouted the tank and what will be going in it- and now thinking about tank 4, another smallish one for hillstream loaches. I loved them anyway, then my LFS got them in, then i saw a breeding vid here yesterday and this morning looked up tanks for them etc. haha, its OBSESSIVE!

But right now im just super excited about the puffers.....my LFS that i favour will ring me in the next 3 hours to let me know when/if i can get them soon, OR another good local one will know the same in 4 hours, but i have to ring them. haha. 
PRAYING they can order them today as still takes approx 2 weeks till i'll have them!


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## Sookielee

Yea but in that 2 weeks you can have their new home all nice and perfect for them. So the 2 week wait is a good thing.


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## Nilet699

I know i know but the waiting game kills me! haha
I just rang LFS numero 1, doesn't know yet but they'll ring me very soon as they are about to get the list! About to go to work though which is a bummer!


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## Nilet699

LFS rang me today- the dwarf puffers will be in next wednesday.....

Now, they arrive at 1000, i finish at 1600, do i switch my shift to start at 1500 and have the morning off or just wait and have the whole evening...........decisions decisions.....


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## Sookielee

How is the LED light experiment going?


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## Nilet699

I'm not quite sure tbh. But I think I might sack it off and buy proper led strip for aquarium. New thread about it, just waiting for some replies there. 
Only lost one lower leaf though. Hard to guage as not the fastest growing with no co2 etc, trying to watch the new growth it had before I got it.


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## Nilet699

Just back from the LFS now that the car is back from the garage 4 days later and got lots of new plants for before the puffers get here! Only 38 hours to go till puffers!!!

Picked up;
Elodea
Hygrophila guanensis
ludwiga palustris red
hygrophila polysperma
2 x cryptocoryne beckettii

to go with the lonely ludwiga glandulosa that was in there.

Got the whole night now to get this tank ready for the puffers.......
lets see what i can work up

Pics later


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## jentralala

WOO. So excited for pics!!


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## Nilet699

Ok... here goes.....


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## Nilet699

Ok, so there it is. I've obviously gone for a stemmy foresty kinda looky thingy 

WOULD LOVE OPINIONS/SUGGESTIONS!!!

Positives/negatives both!!! I can take the truth! 

This is obv for my dwarf puffers and so i want whats best for them!


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## Chesh

I am officially jealous. . ._ASIDE_ from the fact that you're getting_ PUFFERS_, which I adore. . . YOU GET TO SHOP AT MAIDENHEAD AQUATICS!!! I'd kill to live anywhere near that shop - I've read/seen/heard all sorts of fantastic things about thatplace. You are one lucky dude, Nile, I hope you know that. . .

Best of luck with the tank setup - You mentioned on another thread that you were off to plant . . . something. . . earlier - was it this tank? What did you put in?!! I can't wait to watch this tank grow  Good luck!


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## Nilet699

Yeah i do love maidenhead  PLUS friend from the past works there too which is uber handy!
Spent 2 and a half hours there tonight chatting to him, and one of the owners that came in......he was awesome too.......so much knowledge and love for it which was nice to see!

And yes Jes, it was this tank, till about 2 hours ago, it was bare. Pics are above 

Only thing i'm wondering, is i didnt plant right to the front as im wondering whether to put some hairgrass or something similar in.....

PLUS i NEED opinions on it!!!!!!!


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## Chesh

HAHA! I must have been typing when you posted those pics - they were NOT there when I scrolled through, lol. . . lemme see. . .

Hrm, iif you're running low/medium light, hairgrass or any type of 'carpeting' plant isn't really going to work for you. Look into Pygmy Chain Sword (echinodorus tenellus) or Dwarf Sagittaria, both of these will eventually fill in and give you a similar . . . sort of. . . appearance. Not exactly as grassy as the DHG would be, but I like the look - definitely more junglish, lol. 

For now, you're looking to divide the Puffer's line of sight, so you may want to leave things spread out just as they are, but in my opinion, Elodea looks better when it's grown closer together, in more of a bunch. You'll find that Pondweed does grow like weeds, though - so you'll have enough of it to do that with in a fairly short amount of time if it likes your tank. 

Is that two pieces of driftwood off to the left of the tank? If so, I'd probably separate them, maybe move one so that it's a bit behind some plants to give more of a natural feel, and if you can find some Java Fern to attach to the wood, that would be beautiful, and work well in this setup. . . 

All in all, the tank is off to a good start! I like it a lot, and as things grow in and out, you'll probably want to shift things around a bit, but for now, HUZZAH FOR PLANTS! I'm so excited now to watch it grow, grow, grow!

Puffers. . . are coming. . . TOMORROW!!???? *SQUEEEEE* Gah, I can't wait! Been watching Boredom's tank for ages - such lovely little fish. One day I WILL have one!!! Keep us posted, pretty please!!!


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## Nilet699

I will do!!! Yes i know once it starts to fill in, it will be different and need changing.......

No.....its one piece of wood.....he has ordered me java moss......which i intend to cover it on by thursday as he had run out. Want this as this is what they breed on 

Fish will be picked up wed morning- shop opens at 9. I'll be there at 8!!!

I like the wood on the left too. looks better in RL....its gnarly and twisted!!! lol

AS for the elodea....it was simply bought to fill spaces between the stems as has a MUCH lower light requirement than most of them......whci is a prob till friday for me- i tried some NON aquarium LEDs just to try it with one plant... not going to work i dont think- worth an experiment though........so im about to order this for the tank;

High Quality LED aquarium fish tank lighting tube, white, blue and UV UVGI | eBay

This should be MUCH better and should hopefully meet the requirements needed! If not, well i'll have to try again and probably revert to T5's. Just really wanted to try LEDs with this tank as a learning curve with them. 

The layout was for that......breaking line of sight...which it does now...but will obviouslt much better once the plants all fill out etc!

THANKS for the opinions etc!!!


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## jentralala

I'm loving those crypts. I would totally get more and just fill it with those,  They are really pretty. 

I'm loving the tank though, that driftwood is really pretty. Only thing I would do is maybe bunch the anacharis in that back corner, after everything fills in. Those plants are gorgeous though, I'm so jealous you can get such healthy ones!


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## jentralala

Also jealous you get Java Moss.


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## jentralala

ALSO, how was planting? Did it get cloudy or anything?


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## Nilet699

Well i'm not going to bunch them probably as i have some Vallisneria gigantea on order for my main tank for thursday, and i was thinking of adding 1/2 in front of the filter to cover it in that back left corner and then to provide a shaded area also. I know i'll have to cut it down regularly in such a small tank but i likes the plant!

Also- why are you jealous of java moss? you cant get it?!?


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## Nilet699

The planting, no, no cloudiness, even when i was making a mess with the wood in the sand, though, IT TURNS OUT i asked for play sand, he sold me it at play sand prices, but he gave me aquarium silver sand - something like that.......

He also told me it was clean - that was a lie too, was bloody filthy!


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## Boredomb

Nile your tank is going to loom good once you have the plants in and everything fills out! 

I think I would definitely try Pygmy Chain sword in the front. Though Dwarf Sagittaria weren't look bad either or Broad leaf Chain sword. Those just look cool to me and I think they would full out the front nicely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Boredomb said:


> Nile your tank is going to loom good once you have the plants in and everything fills out!
> 
> I think I would definitely try Pygmy Chain sword in the front. Though Dwarf Sagittaria weren't look bad either or Broad leaf Chain sword. Those just look cool to me and I think they would full out the front nicely.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


the plants are in!!! Just the Vallisneria gigantea and then front to do.
I know what you mean about the front with the swords....but the reason i thought hairgrass or something of the sort is that i would like something they can explore which is short and in full view for me......yet still lets me look further back into the tank


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## Boredomb

I managed micro swords in my 55 gallon tank. They need high lights and C02 to really do good. They can manage in low light tanks but just take forever to spread!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chesh

The Vals will look really nice in that setup! I had them for a bit, but they never really did very well for me. From what I've read they can be iffy about soft water, but some people have had success, so hoping you're one of those! I ended up replacing my vals with Crypt.Spirallis. Its more willowly than the straight grassy blades of the vals, but is still a very pretty, similar plant. The odd thing is that, even though my vals didn't thrive, they DID continue to multiply - I had runners everywhere. Never did understand that!

In my tank, the Chain Sword and the Dwarf Sag do stay nice and low, they're just. . . bushier than the hairgrass would be. Those new lights look cool, though. I don't know anything about LED - would that put you in a higher lighting than you are now?

Whatever you end up with, I'm SURE it'll look fantastic! It's a nice setup, I really can't wait to see how the Puffers like it!!!


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## Nilet699

Eleocharis parvula is still wining through - mainly due to the 2 inch height.
I'm going to look into it further though.

Is there any other truly mini's out there?


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## jentralala

Oooh, vals! I could never get them to grow for me, which is a shame cause I can pull them out of the river all day long, lol. Those will look super pretty in there. 
Yeah, the only java moss they sell is wrapped around bamboo, bleh. I just want a clump but I'm not going to buy it online, shipping just kills me lol. 

I've never hear of aquarium silver sand, that's fascinating...You bought it from the LFS?


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## Nilet699

Yeah, its good sand from what i read - though finer -and EVERYWHERE it says when you fill you tank expect it to be cloudier than using other sand slike play sand. HA! HA! MAYBE the LAZY people need to clean their sand as many times as me.........and it'll LOOK like crytal 2 secs after filling like mine did! HA!

lol

And i'm hoping they will work out. i have a dwarf one in the other tank that never got going........so im hoping for more luck this time........else i'll have to switch out to something like Jes's crypt spirallis!

can you not just unwrap it off the bamboo? OR is it not growing anywhere in the wild there?!!?

32 hours to puffers!!!!!!!


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## jentralala

Hm, maybe...I don't know. It looks rooted to it...That's definitely something to think about.
And nyehhh  I haven't found mosses here, which is a bummer. I'm hoping I can get a canoe sometime this summer so I can go out deeper in the river for plants. 

I AM SO EXCITED FOR PUFFERS. I really hope they like their new home!


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## Nilet699

So am I! He's getting 10 in!!!! I'm going for 3. But 4 is soooooo tempting!!!


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## Chesh

I hope your vals take off for you this time! Mine did. . . okay. . . for a long time, it had loads of runners, and it grew - it just was never right. I don't know how to explain it. I ended up yanking most of it after an algae bloom caused by a massive power-out, and it never recovered. Gorgeous plant, though I now love my crypt way more!

Jen. . ._bamboo?!!_ That's one of the oddest things I've ever heard! Anyway, even if it IS root into. . . whatever, you can just pull it off - it's easy to do. Even if some of the strands break, in my experience with moss, that doesn't really matter 

25 (or so) hours and counting!!!  SO exciting! I can't wait for those little uns!


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## Boredomb

I had Jungle Val in my 55 gallon and it grew like a weed!! They got huge!!!! Like to the point that they covered the top from one end of the tank to the other! They do better in harder water Jes. So not sure what your hardness is but am thinking its softer then mine. So that might explain why yours didn't do as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sookielee

Well congrats on getting you tank planted. It will look great once it fills in and you get the additional plans you are talking about. Vals are one of my favorite plants also and I am planning on placing some in my 75 with cichlids. From reading looks like tomorrow is Puffer-Day! like others I am so Jealous.


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## Nilet699

It is! I'm on countdown! 18 hours to puffers! Haha.

I know, looks ok right now, but will be much better once it fills in, I moss the wood, and find something short I want for the front couple of inches. There enough I hope to keep them busy in there till it's finished though...got the wknd to sort it out though! 

Just wish I had room to bring all 10 of them home!!!


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## Chesh

I can't wait until they get there! You're going to have so much fun with those little cuties  That wood will look fantastic covered in moss, too. . .


----------



## Nilet699

Yeah it was a toss up on the twisted piece of wood on the left too. I have a much bigger, maybe 7/8 inch L 3" W 3" slightly curved flatter piece that I was going too put in but decided for more plants instead. Might Changet later.... hope they do look good covered in the java moss though! Not looking forward to tying it all on with thread!!!

15 and half hours! Lol


----------



## jentralala

Are you going to take the wood out when you put the moss on or just do it inside the tank? Can you just like...shove pieces of moss into the cracks? That sounds like such a pain to sit and tie it all on xD

Woo! 14 and a half hour or so!


----------



## Chesh

If there are cracks, you can do it that way, but yeah - tying _SUCKS! _I actually got some tiny black or transparent silicone rubber-bands - like the kind you'd find in a baby-doll's hair? and use them to just band roots on.It works REALLY well for me, and it's WAY faster, easier, and stronger than tying.You can find them in beauty supply places. I rinse them with warm water and vinegar before putting them in the tanks and never had a problem.  SOME places you still need to tie, but I bet the bands would work on that driftwood *nods*


----------



## Nilet699

Your right..... BUT then I'd of cheated. And I'd Always look at them. I was cleaning some early algae off my other wood in other tank and snapped the thread on an anubias. First place my eyes go now is to the band.... makes me grr!!! Lol
So unfortunately I'm screwed and will have to thread it! 
Which reminds me that I need new thread.... why the other one got banded. Hmmm should I get green or black etc?


----------



## Chesh

I always go with black cuz' it tends to blend better with the roots and wood or *most* rocks. With the moss being so fluffy, you'll probably be able to see where it's attached for a short time, anyway - but matching the green might not be as easy as you think. ALTHOUGH. . . you DO have Maidenhead Aq, so the shop probably has special moss-colored thread for this kind of thing anyway. *jealous*

With the black rubberbands you really don't even SEE them. Only. . . um . . . I use the same bands for my daughter's hair, so when I run out, I've used odd brightly colored ones *giggle* THAT bugs me, but they attach pretty quickly, and I snip the band and all done! Dude... I am all about cheating when it comes to attaching things to other things, lol! I SUCK at tying plants and thread when everything is wet. Seriously. . . I'm very bad at it! *GIGGLE*


----------



## Nilet699

Haha! I suck too, first attempts went terribly to say the least! Learnt it's a two person job now....Mrs chips in and goes spot on! 
Haha maidenhead isn't THAT good. Lmao - moss coloured thread :-D

I'll go with black then! Least I can blame you if it all goes wrong then!! Haha


----------



## jentralala

I'm lazier than you guys and I just shove at a plant until it gets stuck in the driftwood somewhere  Although I'd be afraid the moss would just fall apart. It looks so delicate!

What about fishing line? It's clear, so you wouldn't really see it...Although I can imagine that might be a problem when it comes time to remove it 

Sometimes I take a pebble and use it to hold down certain plants if I'm trying to attach them, it works pretty well.


----------



## Nilet699

Dam! That reminds me I was meant to find a mid sized but skinny, squarish stone for a kind of centre piece/ sight breaker that more moss could get on! Poop


----------



## Chesh

Nilet699 said:


> . . .a mid sized but skinny, squarish stone. . .


Isn't that funny? I mean. . . who _SAYS_ something like that? But I know_ EXACTLY _what you mean, and the frustrations of not being able to find the ideal rock, lol! 

It_ IS_ a 2 person job, for sure. And my other is usually not around when I'm fiddling with the tanks - it's kind of planned that way, cuz' I give him heart-failure toting big ol' buckets of water around, lol! I have used fishing twine - and you can't see it, easy enough to remove. MY issue with that stuff is that it's hard (for me) to get the knot tight enough, since it's a plastic kind of thread? I know people DO this, but the knots ALWAYS slip when I do *shrugs* There must be a tequnique that I'm missing here, lol! And Jen - I do prefer to wedge stuff in - the natural approach, neh? But there isn't always a way to do that, then you're stuck, lol! Moss. .. is kind of fragile, as in the individual strands will break fairly easily, but by its nature it can root from anywhere, and is fairly hard to kill, so. . . *shrugs*

Are those darn PUFFERS home yet?!!


----------



## Nilet699

Hahaha no! But we're down to 11 hours!

Well the J moss I'm getting comes rooted into a "mat" or something otlr other....so I can cut it to shame and attach the mat to wood. I could prob glue it if I wanted with aquarium Glue.or w/e. But nah.

The trick IMO is that second person who holds the first knot in place!!!

And yes, the stone.... tbh I just completely forgot about t whilst I mentally planned through planting etc


----------



## jentralala

So after doing some math, I think 9 in the morning for you is 4 in the morning for me. Needless to say, I won't be awake as soon as you post, which makes me all kinds of sad, but I just want to say I am SO EXCITED.


----------



## Nilet699

God Jen....absolutely No commitment.......

1 hour to go


----------



## Boredomb

So guessing right about now you are looking at your new lil puffers. Best of luck with them! They are such awesome lil guys/gals!


----------



## Nilet699

I was!!! 
And they are home now!!!!
I drove like 10mph home and super carefully, they've shied up though on way. Got a quick pic though to add of them floating on the tank. Haven't stated adding water yet! 
God I'm excited! 
Cool bit was I got to speak to the guy who supplies them from Singapore too. The shop owner was there and he gave him a ring for me! Was chatting about habitat, numbers, breeding etc. Cool guy!


----------



## Nilet699

OK! 
java moss attached to all the wood now! Looks MUCH better!

puffers have been taking on water for approx 40mins now, so nearly time to let em loose!!


----------



## Andarial

Gorgeous little babies <3 I am getting new puffs soon too now that I have a 25 gallon XD I hope all goes well for you and I will keep an eye on this thread they are such cuties. I love your scape too, it will look awesome once the plants start growing and filling in.


----------



## Sookielee

Congrats Niles! I am excited for you and a bit jealous. I am looking forward to seeing the pictures of them swimming freely in their new home. It is really awesome that you got to talk to the breeder.


----------



## Nilet699

it was! He goes to collect them from the wild too.......we ended up chatting about quite a few wild fish he travels the world to collect as well. He did make me be naughty though and get more than i was going to!!!

They are finally in the tank now!!!

Grouped together at first but starting to have a nice explore now! 

Thanks Andarial - i love the scape too, but it may/may not work out. If not the ill probably go with loads of cryptocoryne beckettii planted torughoput the tank, mixed thorugh with elodea and vallisneria gigantea going up one side and over half the top. The vallisneria gigantea will be in store tomorrow and so thats going in the tank no matter what though!

Oh im SO happy right now with my baby puffers


----------



## Nilet699

AHHHHH! i just epic failed........

I normally add fish when my lights are on - so just unplug...but because the timer hadnt come on - they were off.....and i missed them coming on like half hour ago as i made my lunch! Bit late now.....fool


----------



## Nilet699

This is the wood now- java moss attached and a massive improvement!!


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## Nilet699

However my fail has led to one good thing. Pictures! Plus it's not bothering them - they are just happy playing with their reflections right now!


----------



## Sookielee

The wood does look better.

Those puffers are absolutely positively undeniably adorable!


----------



## Chesh

THEY'RE SOOOOOOO CUTE!!! *SWOONS* GAH! I LOVE THEM!!!!

So did you end up getting four?! 

I think it's amazing that you actually got to have a chat with the supplier. How cool is that?! Good for you! I'm not sure if I'm MORE jealous about that, or that you got the PuffPuffs to begin with!

The tank looks great, and I'm totally putting in a vote for loads of C.becketti - beautiful plant, and Crypts are just wonderful IMO. The moss has REALLY brought that DW to live in short order. Beautiful!!1

Congratulations!!! Keep us posted!


----------



## Nilet699

Thanks chesh, and sookie 

I will be doing dont worry, going to keep this going with lots of pics 

I THINK they've eaten too, as i had a few TINY apple snails on the glass this morning, im talking like 0.5mm and i dont see them no more! lol

They are so pretty! And starting to really explore the tank! so sad i have to go to work in 30mins :-( Though thats the price of getting them this morning!

Well, the supplier said at that age and tank size and way its planted and will grow, to get 5/6 So, erm..... 5

If that doesnt work out they said they'd refund the price etc and least this way i can end up with the m/f ratio i want.


----------



## Nilet699

Totally obsessed with my puffers! Flicking through the pics whilst I'm at work.... lol
I need a web cam on my tanks like Canadian fish has!


----------



## Chesh

They're SO sweet! Adorable little buggers, truly. And yeah - since they're impossible to sex young, that's a good way of doing things. But *MY* guess is, by the time you figure out what their genders are, etc. or run into problems with them, you just *might* be so attached to them that you'll end up setting up another tank to home them in, rather than returning the little buggers. I know I would *giggle* I'm TERRIBLE for becoming super attached to all of my fish. Once they get names, it's all over. . .

Can't wait to hear/see how they're doing this evening, bummer that you couldn't call off work because you got new fish, lol! I guess that'd be something the bosses wouldn't really understand - or appreciate! Unless you work in a fish shop, maybe...


----------



## Nilet699

Haha unfortunately not! I mentioned to the owner of maidenhead today that I wouldn't mind doing it. Think I'd prob want to learn as much as I could then quit though - before it ruined my tanks at home....

And I know, I won't even be able to see them later Probs :-(

Edit: 1 999 posts chesh. Cool/committed!


----------



## Boredomb

Nilet how many did you end up getting??


----------



## Nilet699

2 more than the 3 I had intended...


----------



## jentralala

OH MY GOSH THEY ARE SO CUTE.

I can't get over how squishy and cute they are! You should name them Squishy, Squiggly, Squirmy, Puffy, and Squee. > They are just adorable little guys. What are you going to feed them? 

And that is SO COOL you got to talk to the supplier! I am so jealous! And him going all over the world to collect fish...? THAT'S A JOB?! I am SO JEALOUS. 

The driftwood does look gorgeous with that moss on it, it's truly lovely looking!


----------



## Nilet699

Yay Jen  been looking forward to your reaction!!! Haha.

And omg...I love them names haha. But no Jen. I'm a manly man. I can't name my fish that! Haha.

Well they appear to have fed themselves on the super small apple snails that were on the glass and snails will be a good part of the diet, but lots of live worms etc too. Maybe some frozen mixed in IF they'll take it. Haven't got the food yet as lfs gets live food in tomorrow! But they gave me a bag of snails free. Lol

Yeah his job is awesome...the lfs owner showed me his pics of wild Papua new guinea boesemanis that he paid like $75 per baby for. The colours. Oh god the colours!!! He said he might go back - the supplier - there on another trip soon.....I want! Lol

But for now...omg the puffers! Haha


----------



## Chesh

ROFL!!! I'm gonna second a vote for Squee. C'mon. Just ONE?!!


----------



## Nilet699

No!!! Don't make me do it!


----------



## Sookielee

Oh come on Nilet, You can tell your buds the women at the fish forum made you do it.


----------



## jentralala

That guy seriously has the best job ever. I wonder how you even get into a business like that...? That's something I would love to do, and actually get _paid_ for hahaha! 

Are you going to be breeding snails for them? 

Dude...c'mon. Squee is like the most manliest name ever


----------



## Nilet699

Haha I will ask the Mrs when I get home- who has the mentality of a 2 yr old at times - and she can decide if we go with #shakes head# squee for one. 

Haha I like your plan sookie..... yeah mark.... Jen in Florida, and jes in, erm, MADE me.do it! Haha

God only 2 n half hours to go and I get to go see em again!

And yeah Jen, I'm going to try to. Going to get em everytime I go lfs for free and put em in the snail tank and hope they breed once a few get bigger as there obviously food still why they aint! Lol


----------



## Boredomb

Bladder/pond snails will breed like rabbits if food is available. I had a snail tank going for mine. Well I still do but I put some fish in there that I thoughr were too small to eat them. Yeah I was wrong!! I still have snails in the tank just not as much now lol.


----------



## Nilet699

Boredomb said:


> Bladder/pond snails will breed like rabbits if food is available. I had a snail tank going for mine. Well I still do but I put some fish in there that I thoughr were too small to eat them. Yeah I was wrong!! I still have snails in the tank just not as much now lol.


Haha awesome! What did you put in there?!?

Yeah they gave me some free ones, and will continue to. They small long skinny twisted ones..... that's my description, I have Zero clue about snails. Haha


----------



## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> Haha awesome! What did you put in there?!?
> 
> Yeah they gave me some free ones, and will continue to. They small long skinny twisted ones..... that's my description, I have Zero clue about snails. Haha


I put Scarlet Badis (Dario Dario) in there.
From your description it sounds like Malaysian trumpet snails.
The shell looks like a twisted ice cream cone?

If those are the snails they are kinda hard to eat for the Dwarf puffers as they have trapdoors on their shell plus they burrow in the sand. They are also livebearers so they don't lay eggs but carry their babies in their shells for a little bit.


----------



## aussieJJDude

Awww, they are so cute :-D
Love them!


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## Nilet699

Yeah, ice cream cone snails :-D well, I don't want them then! I'll see if my botia kubotai fancy them ;-) 
I'll see about getting me some pond snails then 

Lights go off in like 20, Mrs is at home melting Bloodworm for me to try on the puffers...... here's for hoping! 
And well sad I'm not there! But hope they take it!!!


----------



## Boredomb

Those are not a bad thing Nile. They do a lot of good for the tank mire good then bad. Most of the time when the lights are on they spent their time in the substrate so you won't see them much. Though when the lights are off and its dark try come out looking for food.

Don't be supposed if they don't take the bloodworms at first but lets hope they do!


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## Nilet699

Yeah I know..... it's unlikely they will..... Sophie just text me back and said they seem a lil scared since she put them in... so she's hiding and peeking at them... lights go off in a min so they might take them then.... but I know it's more than unlikely. 
I get live food tomorrow so that'll be better anyway......
If I was to pick up a decent selection of live foods, which I want to, how to keep them? How long will they "keep"???

Ok, maybe I'll add some of the ice cream snails then? I just dont want the tank over run with them!!!


----------



## Nilet699

Copied straight from the text from Sophie;



> Some worms are floating and the puffers have gathered together and are running to the surface in turns xx



:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

I have demanded she try and video this! Haha


----------



## Boredomb

lol That's a good sign if they are checking them out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Well they liked the floaty ones... but there's a load left at front. Should I remove them or leave them overnight?????


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## Boredomb

How many are we taking about?? Just a couple I would leave over night but no longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Muhaha!


----------



## Nilet699

And inside.......


My new LED light


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## Nilet699

A drill, circular wood drill bit and 5 mins ......... and it's in


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## Nilet699

And the end result...... B. E. A. Utiful! :-D


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## Chesh

Looks nice! That wood really looks amazing now that it's all green and fluffy  Can't wait to watch as it fills in. . . but. . .WHERE ARE THE FISH!!!


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## Nilet699

Haha they are still a bit jumpy around me. I can see them all now but when I get close they leg it! Did manage to get some before though. Hang in jes.......


----------



## Nilet699

Here's a nice one for you Jes


----------



## jentralala

Look! It's Squee! D'aww, what a cutie pie.

The new light looks really pretty, I love the look it gives the tank  
Have they eaten?


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## Boredomb

Thats a good pic Nilet! They will start coming out more and more once they settle in for ya. Yeah have they started eating??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aussieJJDude

Awww, cuteness over load...
(and you say your a macho man??? :lol


----------



## Chesh

OH. MY. GOOOOOOOOODNESS!!! The cute is unbelievable. Squeeeeeeee! I luff him.  GREAT shot. I know those little guys are hard to catch in still - especially when they're being shy. Thanks for the closeup... *swoons*


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## Nilet699

Thanks guys! Hopefully I'll get better ones when the Mrs finally gets her new camera! These so far have been taken on my S3....

And I know..... they are so cute! I want another puffer tank!! Haha. Which will happen if I can breed them later  

Well Sophie gets home with the live food in about 20.... they've pecked at the frozen but hopefully they will eat properly very soon!!!!


----------



## Nilet699

I'm having small prob with cleaning though...... the space between the plants is Small... and they aren't rooted in properly yet.... so it's really hard. I'm literally picking bit by bit up with forceps which is really hard!


----------



## Nilet699

Squee!


----------



## Chesh

OH. MY. GOODNESS! Such a little ball of tiny cutishness... I just... I can't imagine LOOKING at that adorable thing in my own home! I want one!!!

What I do for cleanup (don't have Puffers, tho) is use my turkey baster. It's a Godsend for stuff like this - feed my frog with it, too... much neater that way!!!


----------



## Nilet699

Yes I used a pipette to feed them..... and after thought... hmm.... cleaned a little... it's slow but it's better than big grippers!!!

! Get some jes! Do it! Do it! Do it!


----------



## Chesh

Oh, I will. *nods* 'S why I've been following your and John's threads so closely.  Just not ready for it yet. I have a pile of bitty loachlings in QT, and five tanks is too many for me right now. When I get down to ONE, and nobody in QT, and the school tank is closed, AND I've done all my research. . . heh. . .THEN. Then I will have the Puffers to appear. For NOW, I'll just love on everyone else's!


----------



## jentralala

I just have this mental image of him slurping that worm up like spaghetti...what terrible table manners he has 
Is that a live wormie or a frozen? It looks as big as he is haha.


----------



## Boredomb

LoL they do look as they are slurping up a noodle when they eat worms!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nilet699

Haha Jen it's a live one  they definitely are Not interested in the frozen after seeing how they demolished the live ones! Think maybe they had a few too many, but that will hopefully be a one off as I learn more how to.feed them. 
And he DID slurp in down like spaghetti! There's no chewing etc!!!! I'll try and vid it soon.... just wanted to get you guys a pic of them eating! 
It's so cute now too... they chilling on leaves etc and 2 of them are under the twisted wood together.... its so small under there!


At 5 jes, you might as well have 6! :-D


----------



## Nilet699

And the littlest one. He's just chilling Within a beckettii!!!! I took a pic right before lights off.....
I'll post... see if you can see squee


----------



## Sookielee

ok, I must be blind as a bat or you are pulling our legs that Squee is in that pic. If he is there, please someone tell me where to look.

Also, one we get the 75 done, I am going to have me a puffer after this. I have been in love with them for years. Only difference is I want only one that will get big, like a Green Spotted Puffer. A lone eventual 8" puffer sounds like a perfect addition to the family.


----------



## Chesh

AWW! Is that his lil' eye I see peeking out from behind and between the stems? *SQUEEEE* Adorable! Unless that's just. . . some random green-ness. If so, I have no idea, either!


----------



## Nilet699

Hes in the centre. Not sure you can see his eye....just a part of his body.

What do people think about adding 2 cherry shrimp into the tank? 
I think the puffers won't eat them- but they would eat the fry if there ever was any and obv keeps the tank clean.
Opinions please!!!!!


----------



## jentralala

I think I see him in there? Just part of his body...Maybe...xD

Um, I'd make sure there were lot's of hiding places in case the puffers decide to take a nibble, so that the shrimp can get away. The fry would provide a good constant food source.


----------



## jentralala

I've actually had an idea bouncing around in my head the last few days about constant food sources for them...I've been wondering if it would be possible, in a big enough tank, to construct a mesh box (about 5 inches all the way around) in the back corner for snails. The sides would have to be covered in moss to keep puffers from picking at them, but the top uncovered so they could get light. The mesh would keep adults from escaping, but babys could get through and the puffers could have at them.

Just a thought, idk if it would work or not but it's been bouncing around my head.


----------



## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> Hes in the centre. Not sure you can see his eye....just a part of his body.
> 
> What do people think about adding 2 cherry shrimp into the tank?
> I think the puffers won't eat them- but they would eat the fry if there ever was any and obv keeps the tank clean.
> Opinions please!!!!!


This is an idea I have been wanting to do for awhile now but been waiting for my Java Moss to grow more. The Java Moss will serve as a hiding shelter for the shrimp and for some babies. This way the puffers don't wipe out the whole colony. It creates a balance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nilet699

jentralala said:


> I've actually had an idea bouncing around in my head the last few days about constant food sources for them...I've been wondering if it would be possible, in a big enough tank, to construct a mesh box (about 5 inches all the way around) in the back corner for snails. The sides would have to be covered in moss to keep puffers from picking at them, but the top uncovered so they could get light. The mesh would keep adults from escaping, but babys could get through and the puffers could have at them.
> 
> Just a thought, idk if it would work or not but it's been bouncing around my head.


The issue i see with this jen, is that puffers don't have a 'stop' if 5000 babies came out in one day, they'd eat them all...... Plus, i'll throw up a picture in a minute.....i have LITERALLY just set up the snail tank.......
OOH, and i just won another 24 12 12 on ebay.......for $5. i cheekily bid.......no one bettered me.......SO....grow out tank for puffer babies in the future!!!!



Boredomb said:


> This is an idea I have been wanting to do for awhile now but been waiting for my Java Moss to grow more. The Java Moss will serve as a hiding shelter for the shrimp and for some babies. This way the puffers don't wipe out the whole colony. It creates a balance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


well i bought quite a bit of moss......and as you know, even without much growth the tank is very well planted.(IMO)

I've chanced it and just added 2........the puffers were INTRIGUED to say the least...... i took videos.......but dont wanna post as im ashamed at the mess my wood has made of my sand and i've not cleaned it yet! Theres also some poo there now too! messy puffers! 
Puffers and shrimp are about equal in size......they surrounded one....but havent eaten it...and seems the shrimp can hide if they want to as well.....though now they keep swimming past the puffers and teasing them!


----------



## Boredomb

The adult shrimp should be fine but the babies and juveniles may not be. Though this only if the puffers realize they are food. So I guess in theory if you fees the puffers enough where they are not looking for food constantly then they may not see the shrimp as food. Yeah from your pics you probably have enough moss now. 

LoL I they are very messy fish!


----------



## Nilet699

Boredomb said:


> The adult shrimp should be fine but the babies and juveniles may not be. Though this only if the puffers realize they are food. So I guess in theory if you fees the puffers enough where they are not looking for food constantly then they may not see the shrimp as food. Yeah from your pics you probably have enough moss now.
> 
> LoL I they are very messy fish!


THIS would be the plan.......i do Not want 4000 shrimp in the tank........IF the shrimp do breed, i would consider the fry a food source and nothing but. A treat if you will.


----------



## aussieJJDude

get some shrimp! they clean the tank and remove algae too! 
and when they moult, the puffers could have a go at them...


----------



## Nilet699

Loving little things about them that are starting to come through now personality wise.
After eating wise I have 2 who have their spots to go to.
One goes and chills in amongst a beckettii plant. The other goes under the twisted wood.
The second ones pic you can just see th silhouette as didn't want to use flash.
They have done this after all feedings so far.


----------



## Chesh

Heehe! They're so sweet. . . claiming their teensy tinsy territories  It seems like they're doing REALLY well! So thrilled to hear that they're really settling in amazingly well, and are doing great with eating. The feeding issue seems to stump a lot of people - picky little Puffers! I hope they don't eat your grown-up shrimp, or ALL of the babies (if/when there are some). I can't wait to see how this tank grows and gels in the future. VERY curious to watch how the five do together as they become comfortable and reach maturity. Hope it stays very happy and peaceful like it is now!


----------



## Nilet699

So do I jes! 
That was a little of the reason I started putting cheeky bids on tanks on eBay too. If there is a problem now I can literally just whip them out and into another 24 12 12 tank. And for $5.....ha! Bargain!!!! 
And I'm glad the feeding has gone well too! Tomorrow I might try them on the daphnia I have as well and see if they take to it. Be a bit of trial and error to see how much they can eat etc. It's so cute how their bellied instantly round!!!!

Oooh... I can post another pic now. Of the snail tank..I've also ordered 2 large pond snails I'll get next week - only one shop locally breeds them through the winter here! Stripped down an lfs tank today and took all there snails out. Well, quite a few anyway! 
Funny thing on the pic below. See th led reflection in the tank.... they were the leds I tried and failed, as expected really, on the tank. They are now where they belong...... under my kitchen cabinets! Haha


----------



## jentralala

Aww, that puffer in the crypt is the cutest! That one is Squee  I am so jealous! Is it live daphnia? I've been thinking about trying to cultivate that in the summer..ehehe. 

I can't believe you got a tank for $5! That's crazy!


----------



## Chesh

Great score on the tank $5 is an amazing deal! I agree - I always like to have a back-up plan for my tanks. Makes life so much easier that way. Good luck with the snail farm *blegh* and the mysis feeding.


----------



## Nilet699

It s crazy! Even worse that that snail tank cost me 15!!!! It's a "first tank" tank though.... came with the tiniest little filter. Looks like a fluval 0.5 internal its that small. Haha. 

And yeah iv got a bag of the live daphnia. Why you jealous???

Oh, and I asked Sophie about squee..it's a no. Lol. She is the cutest little thing and a proper kid at times.... but she was like .....what? That's a noise not a name!!! Hahahahahahahaha!
She wants to name one Flo though....which is the one who doesn't like it's reflection and also likes to play in the filter outlet!


----------



## Nilet699

That's not like you Jes!?! What's the #bleugh# at?!??!


----------



## jentralala

Yes I'm jealous! None of my local LFS sell live food, just frozen, which sucks if I'm going to start a culture.

...I'm still gonna call it Squee, in my brain..muahahaha. 

So, speaking of live food, Drs. Foster & Smith sells this thing that is supposed to keep up a supply of live brine shrimp slowly releasing into the tank, says it can be used for both salt and fresh water. I wonder if you could modify something like that for daphnia/some type of worm?


----------



## Nilet699

Here's a pic of the tiny filter I got free with the starter tank. I just pulled it in half too to see what was in it media wise. 2 squares of black foam. Haha. Might throw some wool in it and use it on my 55.....:roll:

Has no purpose either as snails better off in dirty water....

Oooh question.... would the elodea survive without any proper lighting on it. As in house lights? I have the old 9w bulb I would have to figure out how to rig to the tank...but I'd do it, but if it doesn't need it would be happier.....


----------



## Nilet699

Haha Jen why you trying to make me automate the feeding?!?!?! You know what I did tonight.... third feed..... rather than adding them to the tank.....using the pipette I managed to 'hand feed' them! This is so much better! I might even try PROPER hand feeding them soon!!!


----------



## jentralala

I would just be so worried about them not getting enough food and having something to munch on in the tank  

Do they all come front and center for dinner?


----------



## Chesh

I love to hand feed my fish! Your Puffs seem really to be settling in well, I'm sure they'll take very nicely to being hand fed in a short time at this rate - though the thought of hand-feeding live worms is . . . kind of. . . creepy to me - though I do it with dead ones all the time, lol!

And "squee," is not just a sound! It's a proper word that was formed fromed by the happy union between the words "squeal" and "glee" AND it's a VERB, To Squee is to become so overexcited about something that. . . squeeing . . . happens. So there. Plus? It's a name now, too. Say what you will, one of them will always be Squee to me! I think it's selfish that you have FIVE Puffers, and me and Jen have NONE, and you won't share not even a single name with us. *sulks* I like Flo too, though 

*blegh* was for the snailfarm. I'm not a big fan of pond snails, though I AM a HUGE fan of almost every other type of snail - you know, the types that aren't hitchhikers!


----------



## aussieJJDude

aww, mini and cute filter!
Snails do like to have clean water, and anyway, what damage would that filter do (beside your bills)? :lol:
Lol, just call one squee... your killing us


----------



## Nilet699

No unfortunately they don't all com front and centre yet.... trying to get them too but at the same time I like dropping a few randomly for them. They stalk their prey  

Haha Jes did you crack out the urban dictionary for that one?!? 

And it doesn't matter JJ they are going to go with squee anyway!!!! Probably for all 5 of them!!!! Haha

Wondering if the shrimp will have survived the night.....


----------



## Nilet699

Haha this is my $5 BARGAIN! 
Despite not saying anything in the description it included a filter of value triple/quadruple what i paid for the tank (fluval U1)......AND working 15w T8 light! And its water tight......
Though you'll have to ignore th HORRIBLE gravel and DISGUSTING fake decs....they have NO place in my tanks. EVER! 
Not sure what you can grow under a 15w T8, but meh...... i can always put another LED one like my puffer tank in it as they are amazingly cheap for what they are too! 
Win win!!!


----------



## Nilet699

Here's a couple of new pictures of the lil ones at feeding time. Not the best as I was feeding with one hand and shooting with the other. Lol
The colours are really starting to come out now and they aren't quite so shy....and they LOVE the pipette....they know exactly what that means!!!!


----------



## Chesh

AWW! They're really adorable, no two ways about it. Cutest. Fish. Ever.  Can't wait till' it's my turn. Nice shots - amazing for shooting with one hand, not an easy thing to catch such tiny fish with_ both_, lol! Glad they're doing so well, and getting used to their new world so quickly!


----------



## Nilet699

Yeah it's gone REALLY well so far. Same with my big tank..... so much so I'm so scared of anything ever going wrong..... but touch wood it carries on as is.... no problems with housing, no problems getting them eating.... and they love me  they be happy when I get home  probably because they want more food! Haha. So far two feedings a day, predominantly blood worms, but also some daphnia and snails. 
The shrimps though I don't even know. One has moulted, found the old 'skin/shell/w/e' on last nights water change...... but don't see then much. Saw one yesterday but that's all I know. Will have another check tomorrow for them....


----------



## Nilet699

And I can't wait for your turn either Jes! Ima just keep teasing you with new pics constantly till you give in and get another tank


----------



## Nilet699

You hear that Jes, this ones asking for you to adopt some of its family......
Look at them eyes just begging you


----------



## Chesh

Haha! Is that SQUEE?!! *bats lashes* 

I _WILL_ have a Puffer named Squee, but I got down to 5 tanks, then right back up to 6, lol! I'm not going to adopt any more fish until all tanks are settled/consolidated, the Kindy tank is closed, and I have time to properly care for more_ - PLUS_ all the research must still be done, and the issue of getting quality stock and live food taken care of, LOL!_ NO_ amount of cuteness will ever convince me to bring home a beautiful creature without being absolutley ready to care for it properly. Did that once, and once is more than enough for me!

That said, I'm watching you, and John, and a few others with Puffer tanks, learning all I can, and REALLY enjoying these lil' guys. I'm SO happy they're doing so well over there, and I'm seriously looking forward to seeing how the shoal plays out as they hit maturity. . . so keep on teasing me with pics and details, please! I love every moment!


----------



## Nilet699

I will do 
Darn you woman with your sensibility!!! 
But I know what you mean, I love the research side of it too! And HAVE to know as much as I can going into it as I want the best for the lil blighters 

Yes I'm very intrigued to see how the shoal goes as well. The 5 puffers as of now are split colour wise 2 ways. 2 much blander, more blurred pattern, and I think both are slightly bigger (wish I was home now so I could check!) That i THINK will end up being males, and 3 much brighter and more spotted, who I'm guessing will be females. This is all circumstantial based on what I've read and pictures etc but I'd go with feeling quite confident of this.
If this is is the case I probably have a 50/50 chance of being able to keep both males. The tank has ridiculous amount of sight breakers, and 2 java moss spawning areas at opposite ends which I'm praying will help keep the peace. Along with 2 feedings a day keeping them full up. I tried a third but they actually weren't interested. Maybe as they grow bigger.


----------



## Chesh

Interesting! I hope you're right - if you DO have 3f/2m, your chances of keeping the entire group are much higher (I'd think). Then . . . ARE these mature specimens? For some reason I thought they were juvies  Hard to imagine in such bitty guys.

You aren't the only one, dear Jen pointed out on my thread the other day that my 10g is nearly perfect for Puffers, lol! No. . . not. just. yet! Maybe next year. It IS best to know all you can and be prepared first - even if I find that more often than not fish break the 'rules' I've read everywhere, lol! Mostly, I'm not really getting into it because I'm really run thin right now, and my main focus is the 55g.


----------



## Nilet699

You have an empty 10G?!?!? Puffers!!!!
They aren't really any effort tbh....feeding is a 2 minute job ans pwc in the 15G takes me all of 186 seconds  plus time letting the water sit with the prime for 5mins or so.
Cleaning is easy as just suck 2 inches above the sand to pull up the waste... you so should!

Your right, they are juveniles, but they are growing nicely and I'm going off what I've read about sexing. Nothing will be definitive until they develop, or not, the tell tale male lines on the stomach, and eye wrinkes, but I'm fairly confident I'm correct in my sexing.


----------



## Nilet699

This is taken from the dwarf puffer dedicated website. 
Left is fem. Right is male.
That's exactly how mine look colouring wise.
I'm in no way taking it as a definitive but I'm hedging my bets and hoping. I've also read elsewhere of this difference.


----------



## Chesh

Ahhhh, cool! Thanks for the comparison! Like I said, I'm not ready yet, so I haven't actually started research - aside from what I've seen following people around on forums, lol. From that. . . it DOES look as though you've got it spot-on, 3f 2m. Fantastic!

The tank isn't *exactly* empty. I moved my ADF into the 55 with the rams, etc - but it's in stasis, should I need to move him back. the OTHER 10g is QTing my dwarf loaches right now. Both are planted. That isn't taking into account both 29g tanks, and the 5g. . . lol. 

From what I've seen you're right - they aren't difficult to keep after the first few weeks. But I've seen Puffy ones die because some of them can be SO fussy with food. I don't have a good LFS at the moment (remember the trauma over the Dwarf loaches - not sure if you were around then...) So I'll have to have live foods ready in advance - home grown, most likely. That involves a whole 'nother world of information and research. And really? I'm maintaining SIX tanks, one is outside my home. . . not counting 2 human kids, 2 dogs, a cat, a husband, AND A DAYCARE! LMAO! I need less tanks, so that I can really concentrate my attention on one or three that I love.


----------



## Nilet699

It would be fantastic if I did have that. I was hoping for 1m 4f but this should work nicely. And from reading pfk articles and the like on them, 2 and 3 actually seems to work as a breeding. And if not.... well I now have my bargain15G sat empty for them 
I'm bidding on a 6G fluval edge too that I'm GOING TO WIN! that I'm going to aquascape too. This would another consideration for a single male. He'd look cool in an amano style aquascaped tank too.... but I would really really much prefer still if they could all live happily ever after together!!! 

Well one bag of worms will last week's at least, so many of them! I just need some brown paper towels for them or somet. Lol. 
Problem is jes the snails for you...if you can't go lfs regularly for pests etc you would have to breed them. I'm doing so in a 3 gallon. Did I post a pic of the snail tank yet btw?

Ok ok I'll stop my futile attempts to sway you now  stubborn woman :-D I kid I kid


----------



## Chesh

LOL! I_ AM_ stubborn when the health of my fishums is on the line *nods* I get really attached to my wetpets. It's a good thing! You're shaping up to have 6 tanks of your own in no time, lol! And that's awesome, if you have the time in your home life to manage that. I've found that with the addition of the Kindy tank, I'm feeling swamped, so working on consolidating things. . .

It seems odd that the FEMALES are the showier of the two, with the bolder spots and colors. . . usually it's the other way around. . .or did I see that wrong? I'm running all around with small children today, so a bit scattered. I'll have another look later.


----------



## jentralala

Awh! Puffy faces are so cute. I'm just looking at pictures and I can just see the intelligence and personality. I'm so glad they've settled in well and are eating, that's really great! Another tank? ? If you get this one for $5 too we're done, haha! That's just a ridiculous good deal on the 15gal, you jerk 

Also, the male kind of looks like a zombie puffer...the females are definitely cuter.


----------



## Nilet699

jentralala said:


> Awh! Puffy faces are so cute. I'm just looking at pictures and I can just see the intelligence and personality. I'm so glad they've settled in well and are eating, that's really great! Another tank? ? If you get this one for $5 too we're done, haha! That's just a ridiculous good deal on the 15gal, you jerk
> 
> Also, the male kind of looks like a zombie puffer...the females are definitely cuter.


Hahahhahahhahhahahahah  zombie puffers  you jerks
I laughed

No this one will be around $30. More for less gallonage but prettier tank with LESs and a purpose. 

Well jes including the snail tank... this would make 5 tanks  oops! Haha. Not much point stopping now either  haha.


Your right in that it seems odd when so many fish species have the male as the showier, but maybe because they are smarter, like us, the woman get glammed up. Haha


----------



## Nilet699

Just spoke to Sophie as I'm at work late... she's about to feed snails, she said she'd send me pics... which means you get pics hopefully too!


----------



## Nilet699

Ok, so one week after the puffers went in this is an update i suppose.
First day - only had frozen whilst i waited on LFS live food delivery. Puffers did NOT want frozen BW! day 2 though and the first attempt at live BW..........they took it 
All fine from then on until day 6. Day 6 my mrs opened the curtains she is banned from doing and i had sunlight on the tank along with an already high light LED. Algae. I am still in the early stages of removing this, well, i start tomorrow, light reduced from 10 to 4 hours now though :-(

Day 7 - puffers are so colourful now, im hopeful, and slightly confident of 2m 3f from early colouring signs etc, but this is not yet definitive in anyway and i may yet be proved way off the mark.

So, now a direct comparison of the tank a week later....

1 week ago;










Today;










Darn water marks...just fed them and didnt have time to wipe it before lights off. It's due for some proper maintenance tomorrow anyway.

To me, and i think you can see from the photos, the tank is already starting to slowly fill in and looks much less ''gappy'' now. Plants also looking much taller throughout the tank.

Always looking for suggestions and opinions should you have any. Also...can you spot all 5 puffers :-D ??? Enjoy


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## Chesh

Looking NICE! Your stemmies are really taking off  Love it! I think I found . . . 4. Hrm, missing one in there somewhere. They're so darn cute! No worries about the water-spots, lol, I think we all understand!


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## Boredomb

Oh that tank is starting to fill in nice Nilet!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chesh

AH! I *think* I found them all. . .tell me if I've got it. . .

Left to right:

1. Above the drift wood hunk
2. Just beneath the heater - tail out
3. Just ABOVE the heater, in a nice little clear spot
4. In front of the plant, just where the heater would be ending, but in front of everything
5. At the far right of tank, tail out of frame.

Right?


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## jentralala

Wow, the growth on those plants is awesome in one week! I'm super jealous, the tank is really looking great.  And I'm with Ches, that's where I see them all too! That one at the very far right is just a little blur haha.


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## Sookielee

Your plants seem to be doing great Nilet and the puffers too.


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## Nilet699

Nice spotting  
And thanks  don't think the growth will be great by next week though with all this reduced lighting.....dam my Mrs!!! Haha.

Anyone have any experience on feeding them dwarf shrimp? As in is it any good? Picked some up so they could 'hunt' them but yet to add them as wanted an opinion or 2 first. Shrimp are completely see through.... says on th bag.... Palaernonetas varians.....


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## Nilet699

OH GOD!
SCARY moment........... cleaning the tank today...........sucking the poop etc off the sand with the smallest hose i have.......lil squee decides to charge at the tube!!! Up she goes and into the bucket below!!!!
Left her 30secs though and netted her out and back into the main tank....... 
i always check the bucket anyway as they so small but glad i saw her! Scary moment though....my heart stopped!


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## Chesh

HA! So you DID name her 'Squee?!!!' 

That's terrifying! I hope she's recovered from her ordeal! Is she small enough to go right through the tubing with room to spare? If so, then I'm sure she's fine - just probably a bit stressed! Poor baby. . . *ish sad for poor fishy*


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## Nilet699

Haha no, on this forum she is. In life she has no name until adulthood and sexed properly! 
Yeah tube is a bit wide....was meant to pick up thinner today but forgot.
Seems fine though....and the tank is fully clean. Just eaten. All is well


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## Chesh

Well, if she's eating and not hiding, I'd say she's good to go! Glad that went well, yeeesh! Might want to put some mesh over the end of the tubing (I tend to cup my fingers around the end of the tubing to prevent sucking up my entirely too curious loaches, lol)

Well... whatever her name shall be, *I* will have a Puffer named Squee one day. So there's that.


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## jentralala

I probably would have cried lol. Good thing you were siphoning into a bucket!


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## Nilet699

I asked Sophie to take some pics of the puffers eating snails for me..... so I'm going to share them with you...











Not sure what we're really capturing here.....
Think it's the puffer mid hunt....











This is a cracker though.










Girl got skills 

Enjoy  haha


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## Chesh

Awww! You be _NICE_ to that wife of yours *shakes fist* At least she tried! And I can make out at least _ONE_ puffer! You know just how difficult tank photography is - much less trying to capture such bitty fish! I suppose this is proof positive once again that it's the photographer, not the camera, that captures the shot, lol!  Poor Wifey. . .


----------



## Nilet699

Haha! In all honesty though....our good camera is nackered and we're waiting for the right deal to buy a new one. I use my Samsung galaxy s3 for pics....she has a BlackBerry with the Worst camera......so it's not really her fault! Happy jes!?!?! Lol.
I'll grab some more pics when I get home actually now that it's super clean and nearly all of the algae has gone. Or hmm..... should I video them....hmm....eating time...hmm .. nah you don't deserve it..... :-D haha


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## Nilet699

Hungry babies 



















Feeding time for me now..... feeding time for puffers Very soon


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## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> OH GOD!
> SCARY moment........... cleaning the tank today...........sucking the poop etc off the sand with the smallest hose i have.......lil squee decides to charge at the tube!!! Up she goes and into the bucket below!!!!
> Left her 30secs though and netted her out and back into the main tank.......
> i always check the bucket anyway as they so small but glad i saw her! Scary moment though....my heart stopped!


LoL this has happened to me a couple of times. The lil buggers are soo small they just go right up the tube and out. 

A bit of advice though. Puffers should never be netted and pulled out of the water.
I do have to admit I have done this several time lots actually until I read that puffers when scared will obviously puff up and if they do this out of the water this means they have just sucked up air into their system. This can be deadly to them as its much much harder for them to get the air out then water. You will know when this happens as they float at the surface and can't swim down. I now net them and put them into a cup of water while still in the tank under water.


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## Chesh

AHHH! VERY good info, John! I'll file that away in my 'Puffer storage unit' for future use! Thanks!


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## Nilet699

I have a 5minute feeding video....should I post it?


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## Nilet699

Oh god. BB your right..... I knew this as well.....just did NOT enter my head at all!!!!!

I have a jar set aside for this as well...... stupid stupid stupid!!!


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## Chesh

Haha, it's okay, hon! We _ALL_ make mistakes! I've gotten my loaches lost in my filter - TWICE! Lessons need be learned, and I'm SURE you'll never do it again  And, hopefully I won't, either! The IMPORTANT thing is that the poor little bugger came through the ordeal just fine! So no beating yourself up! He knew he was in good (if inexperienced) hands, and kept his puffings to himself!

Have you ever SEEN them puff up? I think I remember John saying that he hadn't. . . how common IS it for the lil' peas?

Vids, please. But not if you're going to go all dictator and try to dangle it over our heads. I won't do jumping jacks or anything - but I'd LOVE to see the little guys nomming their spaghettis! SOOOO CUTE!

Great piccies above, btw - did your wife take 'em 

DAMN they're cute...


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## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> I have a 5minute feeding video....should I post it?


LoL that's a stupid question! Yes, You should post it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Haha jes! All dictator!?!?!? Lmao!!!! I only posted that because it's uploading......Very slowly! 

They don't puff like the cartoons....their stomach swells.... and no I haven't seen it yet.... which as its normally a stress thing, makes me very happy!!!!

I'll get it up as soon as its uploaded.....prob be 15 looking at the slow as death speed it's going!


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## Chesh

As you know, I'm_ VERY_ good at being patient - especially where the wee Puffy ones are concerned!


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## Nilet699

I'm not.....it's so slow right now..... like at 28% :-(

You are TOO patient tbh!


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## Boredomb

Yeah Patience isn't something I have either. I HATE waiting for videos to upload. They take forever! Which is why I don't post many of them.


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## Nilet699

65%.....this has gone beyond annoying now........


----------



## Nilet699

How do i post a youtube vid so its a mini window on this page? Just will save me hassle when its finally done then...........


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## Boredomb

LoL I don't know!! I can't ever embed a vide!!! Makes me sooo freaking mad! So I just end up posting the link.


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## Nilet699

Oh god NO, that wont do.......i want a pretty little window with it here!!! I'll figure it out..... at 77% now :roll:


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## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> Oh god NO, that wont do.......i want a pretty little window with it here!!! I'll figure it out..... at 77% now :roll:


I KNOW!! Its just NOT the SAME! One of these days I AM going to figure it out.


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## Nilet699

Ok.....we just hit 90%!!!
Well i AM going to figure it out before i post it, else im just not posting it, so i will pm you after BB


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## Boredomb

Ok Thx, I did it once by mistake and haven't figured it out since! LoL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chesh

haha, you're too funny - you SERIOUSLY just COPY the link - from your toolbar - and PASTE it into the box... no formatting or anything. lol, works for me.


----------



## Nilet699

tried that......just gives the link...... :-(


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## Nilet699

Dwarf.puffer feeding

I'm annoyed I cant figure this out. There should be a guide....

Even stupider is that if i type the name properly it wont link it, just link to the TFK profile.......durr


----------



## Boredomb

Chesherca said:


> haha, you're too funny - you SERIOUSLY just COPY the link - from your toolbar - and PASTE it into the box... no formatting or anything. lol, works for me.


Yeah that doesn't work for me either! LoL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Well at least the videos up, even if i couldnt do it how i wanted :-(


----------



## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> Well at least the videos up, even if i couldnt do it how i wanted :-(


Yes! Its a good video too btw!

How long did it take you to get them use to the eye dropper (pipette)???
Are those live worms or frozen???


----------



## Nilet699

thanks 
used it from the get go, and they really started attacking at as in the vid maybe 4/5 days in. By 2nd or 3rd feeding though, they knew what it meant!
And all live foods.


----------



## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> thanks
> used it from the get go, and they really started attacking at as in the vid maybe 4/5 days in. By 2nd or 3rd feeding though, they knew what it meant!
> And all live foods.


At this point I think I would try to feed them frozen out of the pipette like every other feeding too see if they will take them. Unless you plan to feed them live all the time which is fine. 

Since they come soo close to the pipette and too me it looks like they are taken the worms right out of the end of pipette soo they may not notice the difference in the foods. They may just realize the pipette means food and will take worms out of them be it live or not. Just a thought anyways.


----------



## Nilet699

Well, at the moment i kind of just intend to feed them live all the time. I dont really see the advantage of frozen. if its merely to save a few $, well, i <3 my fish, they can have the good stuff 

Tbh, only thing i really want is something live thats a challenge for them.....something they could 'hunt' etc


----------



## Nilet699




----------



## Chesh

HAHA! OMG! I love them!!! Snarky little buggers when they want to be, lol... it's a really nice video, too - I wish I had a cam that could give as clear a recording as that. They're so small - I KNOW they're tiny, but they somehow don't SEEM as small as they are when you look at them that way. In comparison to the heater - you see it. But otherwise. . . just funny with no show of scale.

I think you're right - there IS no advantage to feeding frozen. Most foods lose some nutritional content in the freezing, I imagine worms and shrimp would be included in that. Sadly. . . we don't all have lovely trustworthy shops like you do. STILL jealous that you get to shop at maidenhead! My crappy LFS - the ONLY LFS I have access to (opposed to chain shops) is where I got my dwarf loaches, and if you know THAT story, you'd understand why I'd never buy live (or dead) foods from them, lol. They only carry live Brine, anyway. . .

As for the video - good call, Nile - I DO remember at some point in the long-faded past setting something on my profile in YouTube that allows links to embed. Perhaps you and John don't have that turned on? *shrugs* It's the oddest thing! I'm sure you'll both figure it out eventually.

Thanks for the video... I really love these guys!


----------



## Nilet699

You know what i think the key is? NOT being logged in to youtube.......
thats the ONLY difference in the 2 postings......
This forum has auto embed.....so maybe its disabled by being logged into a YT account!?!?

GOD KNOWS!
And i know......i LOVES IT. tomorrow will be snails at midday, so ill try and get more videos up now  They like them......circling them before going in for the kill! :-D

tried researching anything they could 'hunt' nothing. maybe shrimp.......but its hard to find any small enough!!! :-(


----------



## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> Well, at the moment i kind of just intend to feed them live all the time. I dont really see the advantage of frozen. if its merely to save a few $, well, i <3 my fish, they can have the good stuff
> 
> Tbh, only thing i really want is something live thats a challenge for them.....something they could 'hunt' etc


Live foods are best and if getting them isn't a problem then they are definitely better to feed. I know for some ppl this is an issue. It was for me awhile back. Since then a LFS started carrying live blackworms as I kept bugging them for them. LoL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Yeah live foods will never be a problem. They come in lil bag- the BW and Daph - in some liquid.....how long will they live in my fridge? Replace every ?? weeks>?


----------



## Boredomb

If you are keeping Blackworms in the frig they can last several weeks BUT changing the water every day or two is a must or else the water gets really nasty! Plus it will end up killing the blackworms faster.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nilet699

blood worms sorry, not black


----------



## Boredomb

Live bloodworms??? Yeah sorry no clue but I would imagine it would be much along the lines as I said for the blackworms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Boredomb

Aren't Bloodworms just midge fly larva???? I really don't know anything about these as all I can get is frozen bloodworms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jentralala

That is so cute how they just slurp them up! And when two went for the same worm and ended up 'kissing', that was freakin' adorable. Those worms look huge compared to them! How many do you feed them? 

And I'm with Ches, so jealous that you have such a great LFS! Mine don't even carry live food, ;(


----------



## Nilet699

jentralala said:


> That is so cute how they just slurp them up! And when two went for the same worm and ended up 'kissing', that was freakin' adorable. Those worms look huge compared to them! How many do you feed them?
> 
> And I'm with Ches, so jealous that you have such a great LFS! Mine don't even carry live food, ;(


Yeah the LFS is really good! Though i can think of 4 that carry live fod permanently around me, just maidenhead is the best. I dont know why all yours dont?!?!

Theres no set amount, i watch there bellies and try to individually make sure they are all getting enough. Like the vid, they were all pretty much full except that one......he's the one eaating the most snails in the vid below though.....must have been hungry after ignoring them! silly boy!


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## Nilet699

Ok, not the best vid in the world, just a light snack on a few snails that i took for you guys 
Bit of savagery and terrible commentary in there though  haha


----------



## fish monger

Nilet699 said:


> Ok, not the best vid in the world, just a light snack on a few snails that i took for you guys
> Bit of savagery and terrible commentary in there though  haha
> 
> Dwarf puffers eating snails - YouTube


Cool but, what's with that Abba sounding stuff in the background. Put some Lynyrd Skynryrd on. That will get the fish in the mood for chowin down.


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## Nilet699

Haha, thats Fifa 13 running in the background on my xbox. i was having a lazy saturday morning


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## jentralala

They are savage little guys! But it's okay because they're so adorable  He/She is circling those snails like a shark, that's so awesome. I always wondered how they got the snails out of their shells haha.


----------



## aussieJJDude

Aww cute - but poor snails, they so cute too!


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## Chesh

heeheehee... oh my. That's too cute.  So. . .it doesn't look like they're actually crunching through the shells, but rather waiting for the snail to foolishly poke his head out and then. . . pecking at it. Poor snails! My rams get snitty with each-other when food is involved sometimes, too. Funny little fishies


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## Nilet699

Yes true. Now im not entirely sure if this will be a problem or not as unlike most puffers they have soft beaks. Was thinking of getting some REALLY small MTS, when i have a tray or something so they dont burrow, that they would have to crunch through. Need them really small as read that MTS are not great for them due to the soft beak, unless they are like 2mm.

And yes they certainly get snitty with each other. 99% of the time they are actuallky fine with each other though which is good! And theres no one bully, they all get it and hand it out! Even lil squee fights her corner


----------



## Chesh

My rams are the same way, it's natural to them. Be interesting to see how things develop as your puffers age and hit maturity, etc. I'm still wondering if problems will arise in my tank if/when any of my rams pair up and start planning a family. I have MTS, I'm not sure how you'd get them to stay in a 'tray,' lol, but it's worth a try! I don't think they'd crack their shells, tho. My rams and/or loaches DO get to my younger MTS, but obviously their shells are left unscathed. . .


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## Nilet699

Well I know..... but how will I ever get them to crack em? It doesn't bother me.....just don't wa nt it to bother them! Meh, we'll see I guess.

Indeed. Though I wish you'd stood saying problems....your going to jinx me! Haha.
Hmm the rams.....I obviously don't have any but for what I know/ read.....once you have a pair.....you ONLY have the pair jn the tank? I might be wrong. There's another tank for you.... lol.

Puffer f feeding now  daphnia snack


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## Chesh

Yeah, a lot of people think that's the right way to go about keeping rams. But others don't - and they often happen to be people who keep them as I do - in a shoal. I have enough tanks to move them should there ever be a problem - so far, nearly a year later, we're still doing well. No pairings, but they've all hit maturity, so *crosses fingers* Same goes for the Puffers, so I'm interested in watching how it goes.

Happy feeding!


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## Nilet699

Hmm not so happy feeding. Well. 
Daphnia pretty dead. Bloodworm too. Wanted to see how long they'd last in the bag they come in. 10 days and approx 70% are dead. Good lil puffers still chomped em though! They prob wouldn't notice if they were frozen tbh as they gobble them as they come out the pipette anyway. Trip to maidenhead in a min for some more!


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## Boredomb

Nilet you can grow your own Daphnia. They live and thrive in green water. Plus you can feed them yeast or atleast I know here in the states you can order food specially for them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Well, im not so much a fan of the daphnia....and neither are the puffers tbh.....i end up giving most of it to my bigger tank....thjey likes it plenty though 
How would i go about growing it then on a small scale? As i dont want ANOTHER tank. lol.


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## Chesh

HAHA!!! WHAT WAS _THAT!!!?_ You don't want another tank?! _REALLY!?_ This would only be . . . what? #3 for you? _PPPSSSHHHHH._ And here you keep trying to talk me into starting #8 or #9. *shakes head* Now I see how you are...


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## Nilet699

Hahaha I have 4 tanks up chesh. Another would be 5. I have no room left now unless I start putting them places I wouldn't see them so much. Might stack 2 though and get a 3 ft for a scape want to do though. Who knows. 
And I don't want you to get more.....you have an empty one..I merely want you to put puffers in it!


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## Chesh

ROFL! I have the same problem with space. I prefer to keep my fishums where I can really enjoy them - unless they're in the hospital tank and need peace and quiet


----------



## fish monger

Nilet699 said:


> Well I know..... but how will I ever get them to crack em? It doesn't bother me.....just don't wa nt it to bother them! Meh, we'll see I guess.
> 
> Indeed. Though I wish you'd stood saying problems....your going to jinx me! Haha.
> Hmm the rams.....I obviously don't have any but for what I know/ read.....once you have a pair.....you ONLY have the pair jn the tank? I might be wrong. There's another tank for you.... lol.
> 
> Puffer f feeding now  daphnia snack


Give the snails a little squish between your thumb and forefinger. Enough to crack them without pureeing them. I think that the MTS have some of the harder shells. Common pond snails and rams horn snails would be better for the Puffers. MTS would be good for your plants.


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## Nilet699

Oh so if I crunch the snails some this might get them to munch on some shell too?!? Sweet. Thanks!

How are MTS good for the plants btw?


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## Boredomb

Mine wouldn't take Daphnia but they were frozen as I can't get live ones near me. If your summer months are warm enough you can grow Daphnia outside in a bucket. I haven't done this but have been told about it and have read some on it. To me they seem kinda difficult. Especially to grow inside. Surf the web for Daphnia cultures and you find plenty of info on them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fish monger

Nilet699 said:


> Oh so if I crunch the snails some this might get them to munch on some shell too?!? Sweet. Thanks!
> 
> How are MTS good for the plants btw?


They burrow around in the sand and help keep it from becoming too compacted. This makes it easier for plants' roots to grow and, supposedly, keeps dead spots from developing in the substrate. I had some of my healthiest plants when I had a good population of MTS. I don't see them around here anymore.


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## Chesh

I love MTS - have them in all of my planted, sandy tanks *nods*


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## Nilet699

Why though? Whats the benefits?

And do they not over breed and you have millions of them?


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## Byron

Nilet699 said:


> Why though? Whats the benefits?
> 
> And do they not over breed and you have millions of them?


Any of the small snails (Malaysian Livebearing, pond snails, acute bladder snails) are valuable in any freshwater aquarium. Consider them your helpmates in maintaining a healthy aquarium; they get into places the aquarist can't, eating organic matter and algae. They break down larger bits more quickly than without them, making it easier for bacteria.

The added benefit of MLS is their burrowing throughout the substrate. Even if they only move through the top half, as some have suggested, they still do a good job of aerating the substrate, making it easier for plant roots and bacteria as this keeps the water flows through the substrate. They also eat fine algae off of plant leaves, helping to keep the leaves free of debris for a better exchange of nutrients.

It is true that MLS can increase rapidly--and this is not entirely due to food as some believe. Even without fish in the tank, these snails still manage to maintain very stable populations. Nevertheless, considering their beneficial role, they are well worth it.

Byron.


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## Nilet699

Ok, i just took the plunge and dropped 10 into my main tank thats gravel, and has wood that likes to grow #poo# on it.

This tank does contain 6 botia kubotai......so its up to the snails what they do/if they survive......i cant see as the lights are out!


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## Byron

Nilet699 said:


> Ok, i just took the plunge and dropped 10 into my main tank thats gravel, and has wood that likes to grow #poo# on it.
> 
> This tank does contain 6 botia kubotai......so its up to the snails what they do/if they survive......i cant see as the lights are out!


My B. kubnotai keep the snail population well down in their tank. This is the only tank in which I never see them when I sit and view the tank, though there must be some in the substrate. I do find the young snails in the canister filter when I clean it, so they are coming from somewhere.


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## Chesh

I've never had a problem with mine getting out of hand, and I have them in every one of my tanks. Of course, I have no idea how many there actually are in there, either! I've been very careful to keep all pond snails and bladder snails out of my tanks - I just don't like them. But MTS - I really love. My daughter calls them unicorn horn snails


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## jentralala

I'd love to get my hands on some MTS, but no one around here sells them. I'm going to try and buy some in the spring when the weather is better, I don't want them freezing on the trip here. 

Byron, I thought pond snails _were_ bladder snails? Could you explain the difference? I have snails in my tank that came from the river and I truthfully have no idea which they are. 

Also, as to shells. What about dropping in some of the really small snail babies? Like the ones that are specks on the glass? You could probably scrape them off and put them in a pipette. I'd think the shells would be a bit softer when they're that young.


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## Chesh

Jen... I got my first MTS from PetSmart. They get them in with their Apple snail and plant shipments, but don't sell them, so they've given me some for free a few times. I've heard that PetCo actually sells them as well, and if you can't find them, give it a month or two and I'll ship you some. I sent some over to my friend in Florida, and they made the trip just fine - these guys are indestructible!

I'm not sure if the shells are softer when they're little - but with MTS at least, it's definitely easier for fish to nibble on them! I had to have a user on here send me some of his larger adults for the 55 because SOMEONE - either the rams or the loaches, I have no idea (suspect the former), was snacking on the babies! The shells were intact, but the snails were gone :/ I stopped having problems when I got a decent supply of larger adults to keep the population up, and now I have them spread through ALL of my tanks, so plenty to spare should you want a few.


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## jentralala

I've only glanced briefly at the snail tanks in Petco and I only really noticed mystery snails in there, but I will definitely get a better look at them next time I'm there. 
Thank you!  If I can't find them I'll for sure let you know, I think they're the coolest snails ever  

I actually think my loaches are starting to eat my snails...I found an empty shell today which I've never seen before. It may have just died of natural causes but...I don't know. My loaches will eat anything, I swear.


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## Byron

> I don't want them freezing on the trip here.


Rather unlikely...though if you actually wanted them, this is the time they probably would freeze.:lol:

There was an article on MLS in Amazonas a couple issues back that was quite interesting. I think Mary Bailey was the author, but I might be mixing things. Anyway, she said that these snails are almost indestructible. They have been known by her to survive freezing in buckets of gravel outside in the winter that froze solid, they have survived total drying out, and even extreme heat.



> Byron, I thought pond snails _were_ bladder snails? Could you explain the difference? I have snails in my tank that came from the river and I truthfully have no idea which they are.


I always get these mixed up as they look identical (to me), perhaps because I have seen the snail I have referred to by both names elsewhere. The pond snail is _Lymnaea stagnalis_ and the acute bladder snail is _Physella acuta_. The pond attains up to 2+ inches, and the shell is much more pointed. I think what I have must be the acute bladder snail.


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## Nilet699

I can vouch for indestructible a bit. The ones i just put in, were maybe in the bag from the LFS for 10 days, with a hunk of cucmber that had been in there a week. I'd completely forgot/foregone them :roll:

but There in the tank now, moving and burrowing


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## jentralala

Ah! I guess I have the acute bladder snails, I learn something new every day


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## Chesh

Byron said:


> Rather unlikely...though if you actually wanted them, this is the time they probably would freeze.:lol:
> 
> There was an article on MLS in Amazonas a couple issues back that was quite interesting. I think Mary Bailey was the author, but I might be mixing things. Anyway, she said that these snails are almost indestructible. They have been known by her to survive freezing in buckets of gravel outside in the winter that froze solid, they have survived total drying out, and even extreme heat.


I have quite a few books by Mary Baily - she pairs up with Gina Sandford on a few books that I read quite often. I really like her writing style. She gets the info across in a nice conversational way that I have no trouble understanding 

I really do believe in the indestructible nature of MTS - regardless of who wrote the article! I have no heat in my basement, and it's been around 11f here. Did a water change and there was some sand left in the bucket, being lazy, I left it to dry (easier to dust out that way). I ALWAYS check for snails, but I suppose this time. . . I forgot, or perhaps I missed a few. The bucket was down there for a full week - no water, the sand may have been damp, close to frozen if it WAS wet, but certainty dry when I went down again. When I went to get it for my next water change, I was shocked to see the little trail-marks of forgotten snails! There were 4 of them. All closed up. . . I thought they were goners, but put them in a pail of water to be sure. Sure enough. . . not one hour passed and ALL FOUR were up and at 'em!

Amazing creatures. . . absolutley astounding!

Just let me know, Jen. It only takes 3 days to ship from here to where you are


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## fish monger

jentralala said:


> Ah! I guess I have the acute bladder snails, I learn something new every day


Me too. I've been calling them pond snails forever but, the biggest I've ever had was about 1/2 inch.


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## Nilet699

Not sure what I've got in my snail tank atm. I've been to 2 lfs and taken the snails out of their plant tanks and put them in. They are around 1/4 inch now but seem time be breeding already as I'm sure the numbers have gone up. Will have to see how big the biggest ones that won't be fed to the puffers get.

Also....new vid currently uploading


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## Nilet699

New feeding video. Nothing overly new, but some nice bahaviour with all 5 of them in and surrounding the pipette


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## fish monger

Very cool. The tank looks great.


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## Nilet699

Thanks FM. it's so interesting to see the plants really taking off, the first of the hygrophila polysperma is about to break the surface


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## Nilet699

new vid AND pics today  Its a good day!
These are of the lil fatties munching away!


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## Nilet699

Ooooh, and one more


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## fish monger

They are so cute and your plants are in great condition. The crypts are so thick and nice.


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## jentralala

Look at those pudgy little bellies! So flippin' cute!


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## Chesh

Loved the video, and the pictures - they're just so_ ADORABLE_. . . I want to poke those tiny lil' tummies!!! It looks like they're doing really well, I can see the coloration intensifying as the weeks go by. Beautiful little buggers. Love 'em!


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## Nilet699

Yeah the colours jus continue to come out 
And they're so big. As in I went to another lfs and they had got a few in and they were TINY! Suppose you don't notice it so much when you spend time with them everyday! 

One of then crypts is doing super well, weirdly the one under the filter so it's in the flow, whereas the one dead centre has lost a few leaves etc and is much much thinner on growth. Anything I can do to help it?


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## Boredomb

Nice pics Nilet!! How are they all getting along in the tank?? Any aggression??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

The only aggression i see is feeding time when theres a bit of hustling and bustling etc. Especially when im specifically feeding one who hasn't got as much as the others yet! All so greedy!

Apart from that there is the occasional chase, but always seem to jet away fine in amongst the plants then normally come back and have a pop right back. After that, seems over.

I inspect them daily at feedings and have seen no marks etc, or nipped fins to suggest any bullying or intense fighting.

So its still going REALLY well! Fingers crossed it continues!


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## Nilet699

Ok, lots of pics to come tonight as its been a week and so want to keep the constant comparison pics going.

First off though as said before, theres a real difference between my 2 Crypt Beckettii's.

I'll post a pic of both.
If anyone has any tips on how to help numero 2 look like numero 1, that would be great!









Its just sand on the leaves btw.










Couldnt get rid of the posers as they know its feeding time very soon.


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## jentralala

"Hey. Hey man. Hey where's our food man? Hey. HEY. Right here, look at this belly. I'm starving dude. This ain't cool, man."


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## Nilet699

jentralala said:


> "Hey. Hey man. Hey where's our food man? Hey. HEY. Right here, look at this belly. I'm starving dude. This ain't cool, man."


haha Jen, these should cheer you up then.




























Chubby bellies again!


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## Nilet699

And lil '''''''squee''''''' playing with her food :-D


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## jentralala

Omg...the face of the one eating the bloodworm in pic2....totally looks like she/he is smiling.


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## Nilet699

This is the weekly comparison of plant growth etc. Will be a lil less this week thanks to the Mrs and her curtain opening, but still worth a gander. I think anyway 

Just planted; 2 weeks ago










1 week ago;










And today;
(lights ran at 4 hours for 3 days and 6 hours for 2 instead of the regular 10 through the week. still good growth though)










The elodea has tangled with the hygrophila polysperma i the cetre, but the hygrophila polysperma has hit the water line and a mm breaching, wheras the elodea has bent, or would be waaaay past it now. All elodea also growig 'branches'/babies that need to be trimmed soon too.


I think my favourite growth though has to be the crypt beckettii on the left side of the tank. Look at that gorgeous growth and leaf spread! The change in 2 weeks is immense. Love it! That that plant is another of those from the puffers natural habitat, well, makes me even happier!
Good times


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## Nilet699

Ok, so this isnt entirely relevant to the puffer thread, but i was somewhat happy/excited, so thought id share.

My Gran was coming round, sent her to the lfs for bloodworm..........she went to the one like 200m away thats a koi specialist..........no bloodworm for my puffers...... durr

So we went together..........Got the bloodworm.....and also some frozen krill and mysis....why not, some of the fish will like it if the puffers dont.. Bit of variety and all that.

Then they had new plants in.......COULD NOT help myself.......









(apologies on the quality-tank is half full as i was mid clean!)

HAD to have them...... Most likely 90% will go in the big tank, and a few in the tank im going to set up tonight/tomorrow etc..the 15G i got with fluval u1 and 15w T8 for $5 #sniggers#

Left then went back! need sand for that tank! went in and asked how much for the bag of aquarium sand, as the only sand they had at the other store had a peat mix in it and i didnt want that.... got me the bag from outside.........asked his senior member of staff, who i get on with, she's lovely........ 

''Oh for you? Just take it!''

WHAT!?!?! Ok then! 

This tank is turning out to be the absolute bargain of the century! 
(Sand retails for around £20 for the 25kg bag ($30)!!!)

God i love Maidenhead aquatics!


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## fish monger

Good for you, Nile ! I just sent the boy on a sinful run to the fish store. One of them is going to be a platy eater. Probably eat some more but, it's worth it. They've been a curse and I just can't associate with folks who worry about their live bearer babies. Given half a chance, they over run you.


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## Chesh

I love Maidenhead aquatics, too - AND CRYPTS! Very, very nice  You're getting phenomenal growth in there, all things considered! I'm so happy for you, the puffy ones, and SO happy that the algae problem was so simple to take care of.

Deal of the century - you're right! You've barely spent anything on that tank. . . so awesome!


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## jentralala

Dude...that's just so unfair. I'm so jealous. Send some LEDs my way, that plant growth is _astounding._ And all those new plants, too! Lucky.


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## Nilet699

fish monger said:


> Good for you, Nile ! I just sent the boy on a sinful run to the fish store. One of them is going to be a platy eater. Probably eat some more but, it's worth it. They've been a curse and I just can't associate with folks who worry about their live bearer babies. Given half a chance, they over run you.


Haha, tbh, from all i know of livebearers, i made my decision VERY quickly that i wanted nothing to do with them! As a whole they are not my favourite fish anyway, but i really couoldnt be dealing with the whole 5>30 fish in a month. People kill em which is fair play, but i couldnt, and so i suppose id have to give em all away free etc/get a predator tank. Food is a different matter.



Chesherca said:


> I love Maidenhead aquatics, too - AND CRYPTS! Very, very nice  You're getting phenomenal growth in there, all things considered! I'm so happy for you, the puffy ones, and SO happy that the algae problem was so simple to take care of.
> 
> Deal of the century - you're right! You've barely spent anything on that tank. . . so awesome!


Haha total spend for the tank is $5. I plan to fill it with off cuts etc from the other tank and therefore add nothing really! I even have a spare piece of wood that got thrown in with my puffer tank when i bought that! But it's going to be just plants for now. May buy some though....as i want a JUNGLE!!!

Sand is in....much deeper this time for plant growth etc, and is fillling via my pretty eheim water pump at the moment VERY slowly! DID forget though i dont have a heater for it/ have a heater but not sure i trust it etc. We shall see though! DAMMIT....theremometer! Not a big issue with no fishies in, ill just switch em round to check it etc



jentralala said:


> Dude...that's just so unfair. I'm so jealous. Send some LEDs my way, that plant growth is _astounding._ And all those new plants, too! Lucky.


Yeah i'm LOVING the plant growth tbh. And i love the LEDs. Especially at around $45. Bargain in my mind! This new tank has a 15w T8, so will give it a go, see how it does, but its likely if not what i want, i'll get another LED as the tank has cost me nothing so far!

And i know.......LOVING all the new plants..........started sorting out my big tank too for them. Seperated the vallis is there and it looks so much better loosely placed and the fish enjoying swishing between it! 

NEED to figure out where to plant the vallisneria asiatica though in the puffer tank............HELP PLEASE!??!


----------



## Chesh

I always think that Vals look best against the back, or in the corner. Since you have that great big peice of DW on the right side of your tank, maybe put 'em on the left and see how they look there? The back left corner looks kind of lonely and empty to me  Where are you gonna put the purdy new crypts?


----------



## Boredomb

Im with Jes I would put the Vals in the left corner. Then on the left side half way down the tank and the same on then back. Start from the back left corner and come out a lil. If that makes sense?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

I agree with your ideas completely kids, and have done this..........










and whole tank;










Thanks for the input :-D


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## Chesh

Perfecto! Now I hope they fill in and spread for you - it'll be a thing of beauty! Vals are so NICE. I wish they liked me as much as I like them


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## Nilet699

I know I've had trouble with them in the other tank. Not died though, just not taken off. Hopefully they will though with new planting arrangement! And I want these too so they grow over the too a lil!


----------



## Boredomb

Nilet699 said:


> I know I've had trouble with them in the other tank. Not died though, just not taken off. Hopefully they will though with new planting arrangement! And I want these too so they grow over the too a lil!


Nile do you have soft water? When I had Vals they grew pretty well as I stated before but they do best in hard water. My water is running about 7 in one tank and 5 in another. Vals are pretty plants for sure!

Any new news on this tank??


----------



## Nilet699

Well, i've not spent as much time this week on this tank, hence the lack of posts etc as have been doing some serious work on my 55. There was a multitude of problems there that needed to be sorted etc and so thats been my focus.

Not a lots 'happened' so much, the vallisneria asiatica have been a bit of a nightmare. Getting to to stay rooted! They are so floaty and i wanted the sand quite shallow on this tank. It's approx 1.2-1.5 inches, which is fine for all the stems etc, but i seem to have got it sorted with a bit of persistence. If it doesnt work this time, i'm going to improvise an anchor to help.

Apart from that, tomorrow evening i will post up the weekly update etc. The red ludwiga has taken off quite a bit through this week, which has been nice to watch, as it was much slower settling than the hygro it appears. 

I'll hrow some pics too, not the best, but meh, i like em


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## Nilet699

In the second picture, you can actually see sand on the leaves etc, this has been a constant recently, as ive been putting little bits in, a lot for the anchoring of the vallis! It's so hard trying to scrunch it up super tight and not spill any!


----------



## Nilet699

Oh, and they do NOT want to eat frozen krill. Tried it tonight....even went as far as suctioning with the pipette and faking some movement.....had a bite and spat it. Wouldn't come back! Pretty limited to Bloodworm atm with occasional snails. Will try mysis tomorrow and see about that. Just wanted to vary it slightly etc. Can't find black worms anywhere either. Been thinking about culture of them.....


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## Boredomb

Culturing blackworms is been pretty easy for me. I have been doing it for awhile. 

I have a small tote umm think it is 12quarts. I have sand in as a substrate with about half an inch of water above that. Then I drilled a hole big enough for an airline to go though so I could have an air stone in the water for them. I dont have a heater but the water stays about 72° which is fine for them. I throw a small amount of food in there for them. Once its gone I give them more. I feed them about once a week. Usually use algae wafers or some fish flakes. I also have one acute bladder snail in there that cleans the substrate. I started out with a 1/4 ounce of blackworms about umm a couple months ago and still have that amount if not more. I feed my puffer them on occasion and my scarlet badis as well. I have 4 other worm cultures for my scarlet badis soo they get a variety off foods. I had pellets for them by my dog ate them before I could get them use to them. LoL need to go buy some more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chesh

Shush, those are great shots! Love 'em! Are the Puffer's eyes actually bluish? Krill is a funny thing - most of my fish have not really cared for it, either. Wonder why?


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## Nilet699

Aye, i wonder too. Though now i have a full pack of cubes that i have no use for. Joy!

Oh their eyes chesh! they are soooooooooo gorgeous! They are the brightest blue! They are stunning! Its one of my favourite parts of them!


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## Nilet699

Darn busy schedules. tank update tomorrow!


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## Nilet699

Ok, so update time 
Well good and bad i suppose. The tank has developed some diatoms which i do NOT like at all, but im staying on top of it building up etc, minus on one plant, of which there is a picture below. 4/5 puffers have got soooooooo big now! But the one some of you have named 'squee' is still the little-lest of them all, and shes looking tiny kinda now comparatively!

OK so this was the tank on the 12th before a bit of a trim....









And the trims are now growing here...








The leaves on them must have sagged completely for a good 24-48 hrs before they adjusted etc. Nothing in that tank but plant cuttings under a 15w T8......must have been a bif of a shock....cut...and then no LED's!

This is the tank as of 12 minutes ago! You can see a littel brown opn the glass and on the Cryptocoryne beckettii leaves.









This is one of the puffers checking out plants etc....
This wont be a good pic as had to zoom right in and still just using my galaxy for pics..









I'm not sure at all whats causing this... but i dont like it. Perhaps the cherry red shrimp?!?! ANYONE????









Speaking of which.....heres a shrimp...








Again not the best pic. I dont think i even waited for the cam to focus properly here.

And finally, a diff view. birds eye view of most of the tank!









Couldnt get any pics really of the puffers on demand, but i will try and grab some at feeding time in a minute!!!!
Hope you enjoyed!


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## Boredomb

Hey Nilet in pic 5 the Shrimp wouldn't be causing that. That's could be from different things. 
What kinda plant is that??
It could be a lack of nutrients or just one.
It could be the light (duration or intensity).
It could something else altogether.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699

Plant is luwigia palustris red.
Likely nutrients then. I cut back after the Mrs left the sun on it and I got the algae.
Been few and far between actually on the dosing, didn't want over growth either, but I'll up it again slightly then. Thanks BB!


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## Chesh

I had the exact same problem with this plant, I believe it's a potassium deficiency. . .


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## Byron

On the Red Ludwigia issue, the first thing is light. As this plant is intended to be red, that means higher light, so there may not be sufficient light for this species. Nutrients may also play a role, since the plant would normally be more dark green (rather than red) if it were just light.

But I would not assume a potassium deficiency. What is the GH? And what fertilizers if any are being added, and how much/often?

Byron.


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## Nilet699

Flourish comp once a week.
The plant isn't meant to be red wholly. The underneath of the leaves are though and all new growth start that way before the tops green as they mature. Sure I remember reading this is what is meant to happen.


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## Byron

Nilet699 said:


> Flourish comp once a week.
> The plant isn't meant to be red wholly. The underneath of the leaves are though and all new growth start that way before the tops green as they mature. Sure I remember reading this is what is meant to happen.


What's the GH?


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## Chesh

It's time for an update! Nile - come back, we miss you!


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