# Setting up a salt water tank for the first time



## fishman09 (Dec 29, 2008)

Not sure on all of the steps to set up a salt water aquarium just want to get other peoples point of veiw, Im planning on setting up inbetween a 75 to a 100 gallon aquarium,


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## fishman09 (Dec 29, 2008)

*Guppy has barely any babys!!!*

I have 5 adult guppys but the females only ever seem to have under 10 babys and they shoould be having 20 to 30 babay, i have had two batches in about 3 weeks, and one was a batch of six and the other was a batch 7, so im not sure if im doing something wrong


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## rugie (Dec 28, 2008)

not to insult you but, for a novice to not be able to solve guppy questions I would say you are not ready for a salt tank esp such a large tank. the guppy litter is determined by several factors, the age of the fish, it's size, it's general health, the surroundings, ie; space, hiding places, security, is she eating some, is some other fish? eating some. what is the condittion of the sires? weak sperm is a huge factor. type of food & is she getting enough, (live food is excelent for pregnant females)( and for conditioning males. (such as micro worms, daphnia, rotofers, brine shrimp, and or once live frozen foods) And lastly stress, & stress is another can of worms, a topic unto it'self. Oh! by the way 2 batches in 3 weeks is a burden for the girls. a pregnancy each 4 to 6 weeks is acceptable.


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## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

If really serous about setting up S/W tank, do lots of research on livestocks and equipments . There are many different method of achieving successful S/W tank. I rather have you determine which way you want to go rather than buy as you go along. i do not want you to waste your hard earn money, not too mention the suffering of fishes due inadequate care. And of course stress that will bear down on you due to frustration. Fish keeping should be enjoyment, something that will make all the hardship that you went thru the day disappear when you are in front of the tank, not become a extra work after long day of work. 
If going to invest in big set up. bigger the better since larger volume of water will prolong the stability of water compared to smaller aquarium. It does not mean you should neglect the tank. If so, what the point of fish keeping.

Read, read more and google and read more.Once have pretty good idea of s/w tank, you can start listening to other hobbyist. Then with knowledge you gain from reseach and opinions from others, you can make sound decisions BEFORE you even spend a dime.
There are so many products available on the market and no one lfs will carry all the available equipments. Every lfs will probably tell you different way since they willl try to sell what they carry. Can't blame them. I want to see you as educated consumer rather than impulse buyer.

Once the decision is made which way you want to go, add up total cost to set up S/W. Then add approx cost to obtain Livestocks and/or Live Rocks. On top of that add on approx cost to run and maintain the tank (Electric cost, space for all the equipments, cost of chilling in summer, etc)

Now comes the most difficult part, should I do it or not. Try not too cut corners as beginner. That will come later as you are more experienced and comfortable with what you do!!!
Good Luck!!!


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## fishman09 (Dec 29, 2008)

i know how to take care of fish i have had them for over seven years, i all i wanted to know was what you told, cause it doesent say that no where in the website's, i wouldnt go and set up a 600 dollar tank just to have everythng go wrong cause i dont know what i am doing.


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## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

fishman09 said:


> i know how to take care of fish i have had them for over seven years, i all i wanted to know was what you told, cause it doesent say that no where in the website's, i wouldnt go and set up a 600 dollar tank just to have everythng go wrong cause i dont know what i am doing.


$600 for 75G s/w set up is a big understatement. Keep your mind and thoughts open. I've doing for over forty years and always open to new info and technics. 
I don't think anyone here is trying to imply anything, but to assist you in achieving very successful s/w tank, be it FOWLR or Reef.


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

$600? I've probably spent close to that on my 10G reef so far. A 75G would take months and months of research and money saving.


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## fishman09 (Dec 29, 2008)

no, i went to the pet store, i went to the real pros,, asked the guy, and he gave me a price with fish included


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## JHK30 (Dec 29, 2008)

he probably gave you the price of the glass with a filter and 1 cheap fish.

your going to have a couple thousand put into a saltwater in a while. if you don't have the money to maintain it then I wouldnt do it. all that hard work for a salt water set up for a month or two.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

fishman09 said:


> no, i went to the pet store, i went to the real pros,, asked the guy, and he gave me a price with fish included


I would hesitate to call the people at the pet stores the pros. There are really 4 types of people in this hobby. The novice, who feels somewhat overwhelmed. The sales folks at your LFS, who generally encourage the novice to do things they are not ready for. The experienced hobbyists, who come to these forums trying to prevent the sales folk from taking advantage of the novice. And finally you have the "real pros", who write the books and publish the articles. 

Every trip I make to an LFS I overhear conversations and hear bad information being given. It is not the fault of the LFS, they have good intentions, but they usually do not have enough experience to realize the errors they are making. Keeping fish and corals over a period many years is generally beyond the experience level of your typical early 20 something year old "expert" at the pet shop. It just is what it is.


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## JHK30 (Dec 29, 2008)

petstore people are far from pros or experts. they are lower then anything. they are there to sell not help


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

There are SOME people at petstores who are knowledgeable. I have two people atmy Petsmart that I would trust to give me good advice.


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## JHK30 (Dec 29, 2008)

I wouldnt trust anyone around here. selling sick or damaged fish. aggressive when they say non-aggressive. its crazy.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Getting back on topic...

It is not exactly unreasonable to set up a low cost marine system. I personally believe that high-tech systems can be a distraction to the enjoyment of the hobby. You can set up a 75 gallon tank, with a good hang on skimmer, DSB, 40 pounds of base rock and 20 pounds of live rock, seeding the sand with mum from an established tank, and with lots of patience and proper coral selection have a low cost setup. The key here is patience.

So, don't get completely discouraged by cost. If you want a marine tank, lets continue the conversation. Just beware of the limitations of such systems.


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## fishman09 (Dec 29, 2008)

well, he told me how much it costs to set up the tank with live rock, some fish, but without purchasing the tank, and im not going to set it up all at once, im going to set it up, put liverock in, let it filter for over a month, the buy a fish, not all at once, i couldnt afford it, and its not like it costs alot to keep one going, it just costs alot to set oe up, JHK30, you have no clue about salt water, so just stay out of, im not going to listen to ou when you only know freshwater, i have been researching, and asking, about salt wastr tanks now, and you have done, not to much, So stay out of what you dont know what your talking about.


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## fishman09 (Dec 29, 2008)

and the one petstore i go to, he has all of the saltwater tanks, and he has his own saltwater tank set up in the store with a few fish in, this guy is a hobbyist just like us, and sells them to, he not like walmart where you can say you want a neon tetra and get a corydora, so like i said, stay out of it JHK30!


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

relax. JHK is entitled to his opinion just as you are, if you feel he is wrong or dont agree that is upon you and you can take his advice with a grain of salt.

anyways as mentioned, back on track of the thread.
please do countless hours of research before attempting to start a salt water tank, even before buying equipment. youll save money this way buying what you need instead of what you think you need. it is also good to know what your doing rather then know someone that knows what they are doing.(would you rather know how to count the change of your $100 or trust the person behind the register?)
as stated this person is a business man. yes he may be kind, and yes he may be knowledgable but he has a shop for an income. 
research cannot be stressed on this topic. you honestly will save alot of money knowing what to do, put your livestock in the best suitable enviroment, and save yourself of problems down the road. the research stage is also a good time to save up money.
you may want to consider joining a local reefing club. my club is $12 a year but well worth it. you learn alot of great things, meet people with the same interest, get oportunities on group buys and buying used and even new equipment from other members. its well worth looking into finding a club in your area.
you may also want to check out this:
http://www.fishforum.com/saltwater-aquariums/introduction-salt-water-19051/
as well as one by skaustin on sumps/refugiums and i believe kellinshell did one on lighting


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## fishman09 (Dec 29, 2008)

no, JHK30 is my cousin, i know what kind of fish he has and knows about, and he doesent know about salt water ok, so, he can just stay out of it


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## Mike (Jul 16, 2006)

fishman09 said:


> no, JHK30 is my cousin, i know what kind of fish he has and knows about, and he doesent know about salt water ok, so, he can just stay out of it


I appreciate that you and JHK30, as family, may be used to speaking to one another a certain way. However, we hold members to a high standard here, regardless of their personal relationships, and ask that you do not address him or any other member that way again because it comes across as rude and may dissuade others from participating. 

Thank you and we appreciate you helping to maintain the friendly atmosphere here.


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## JHK30 (Dec 29, 2008)

... I dont know what to say. Im shocked.
thanks onefish2fish and administrator.


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## JHK30 (Dec 29, 2008)

and I didnt say I knew saltwater. I just said people at petstores aren't considered pros. I would consider a home breeder a pro.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I personally think this thread is hilarious, not that i would ever encourage such conversation.-)

Ok, so lets talk fish again. Why does this thread exist? What exactly are we talking about again. I can't recall the topic at this point.


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## JHK30 (Dec 29, 2008)

he wants to setup a salt tank and people say he isnt ready because he cant even breed guppies. and he wants a 75 to 100 gal saltwater and the biggest he had was 40 gal freshwater
thats what this threads about.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Pasfur said:


> I personally think this thread is hilarious, not that i would ever encourage such conversation.-)
> 
> Ok, so lets talk fish again. Why does this thread exist? What exactly are we talking about again. I can't recall the topic at this point.


You were teaching S/W Basics 101 for us noobs until the thread was hijacked by the Hatfields & McCoys :lol:


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm not into saltwater but was enjoying the SW Basics101 class until the family feud interrupted it. lol


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

lol.

ill sum it up, but by know means is it this easy.
READ, everything and anything saltwater related READ. The "research stage" is a good time to save money, saltwater tanks are by no means cheap. If you find out how to do things right the first time, they can be done cheaper, but will still come at a cost.
The basics of a reef tank are good lighting, good flow, and a good protein skimmer. Really this is what it comes down to IMO, is that all you need? ofcourse not. A deep, undisturbed sand bed and about 1-1.5 lbs of rock will act as your filtration (in tandem with the protein skimmer) if you choose a HOB filter or canister filter be prepared to clean it every few days, weekly at a minimum. I highly recommend not doing this. Learn about sumps and refugiums as they are greatly benificial in increasing water volume, hiding equipment, harboring macro algaes and even cultivating pods. Read about dosing magnesium, alkalinity and calcium. These are the main 3 things that make up the water chemistry and all go hand and hand. Read about R/O water (reverse osmosis) as you will not be using tap water in a salt water tank. Ill stop here and say it again. READ and ask questions youll be off to a good start. You may also want to look for a local reefing club in your area, mine cost $12 a year and has been the best thing i think ive ever joined. I get equipment very cheap, meet and learn from others with the same interest and so forth. Again, do your reasearch and ask questions.


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## conger (Feb 2, 2008)

I second everything onefish2fish just said.

Pasfur, you had an interesting point earlier, describing a potential low-cost setup based on a HOB skimmer, DSB, and a small amount of live rock. Adding up the (approximate) cost in my head, that could indeed come out to under $1000, which would be quite a feat for a 75 gallon saltwater tank! Kudos  Without mention of powerheads or lighting, it would be safe to assume that such a system would be fish and clean-up crew only, correct?

Original poster (OP), what do you think of that? Is that what you are envisioning, or were you wanting to get into keeping corals as well? In general, I agree with what most have said in this thread, that most likely seting up a typical saltwater tank of 75-100 gallons is going to run at least a couple of thousand... that's assuming you go with a sump & return pump, decent skimmer, good lighting (even if its PC), good powerheads, live rock, DSB, R/O unit, supplements, etc. However, Pasfur described a very viable saltwater setup for much less, but as he mentioned, you would be restricted on what you could keep.

Lets hear some more from the OP on what your particular goals are for the tank?


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## JHK30 (Dec 29, 2008)

he probably wont see this. much anymore, he was on vacation with highspeed and now hes back home with dial up.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

onefish2fish said:


> lol.
> 
> A deep, undisturbed sand bed and about 1-1.5 lbs of rock will act as your filtration (in tandem with the protein skimmer)


I am going to go out on a limb here and pretend to be a moderator for just a second...

I am pretty certain, not positive, but pretty certain that Onfish2fish intended to say "1-1.5 lbs of live rock PER GALLON". ;-)


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

conger said:


> Pasfur, you had an interesting point earlier, describing a potential low-cost setup based on a HOB skimmer, DSB, and a small amount of live rock. Adding up the (approximate) cost in my head, that could indeed come out to under $1000, which would be quite a feat for a 75 gallon saltwater tank! Kudos  Without mention of powerheads or lighting, it would be safe to assume that such a system would be fish and clean-up crew only, correct?


Basically, yes. But I think we somethings get so caught up in the technology that we forget what can be accomplished with very low tech systems. 

For example, my first ever reef tank was a soft coral tank with 4 full spectrum bulbs. Not compact florescent, not even VHO. Just plain old full spectrum 40 watt bulbs over a 55 gallon aquarium. There are a handful of corals that will do just fine in this type setup. Granted, you are VERY restricted in what you can keep, but you CAN have a reef. Throw on an eBay purchased protein skimmer for $50, a couple mail ordered power heads or that HOB filter in your closet for circulation, some recycled tufa rock for the base and 20 lbs of live rock, and suddenly you've got a very low cost reef.

Another example that comes to mind is a conversation I had with Jullian Sprung during a MACNA conference. He was in the stocking phase of an aquarium that utilized a protein skimmer and deep sand bed, with NO LIVE ROCK of significance. The point of his comments was that we get to hung up on using large sums of live rock when aquariums can achieve a natural stability with a DSB if properly stocked and properly skimmed. This is beyond the reach of the everyday reefkeeper, but shows what can be done with patience and understanding.

Yet another example is a long time internet friend of mine on another site who still uses U/G filters on his fish only marine systems, and he is extremely successful. He does a lot of water changes and keeps his tanks gently stocked with sturdy fish, but he has low cost setups that he enjoys.

Naturally, the hobby has evolved. Technology has made our lives much easier. But I would personally not let cost get in the way of someones desire to enjoy the hobby.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Informative post, Pasfur. I'd been toying w/ the idea of setting up some type of S/W system and had all but given up on it. Too much money, too difficult, etc. Then I read this post and I'm back on the see-saw...getting dizzy. Why can't I just make up my mind already??


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

aunt kymmie said:


> Informative post, Pasfur. I'd been toying w/ the idea of setting up some type of S/W system and had all but given up on it. Too much money, too difficult, etc. Then I read this post and I'm back on the see-saw...getting dizzy. Why can't I just make up my mind already??


If you just want to get your feet wet, i suggest a 10 gallon invert with single fish and live rock tank. In a nutshell:

10 gallon aquarium, 1'' aragonite sand, 6 - 8 lbs of live rock, and a hang on filter. The hang on can be a spare freshwater unit. You are using it for water movement and activated carbon only.

If you have 2 light strips from a FW system that you can use, then great. If not, then consider purchasing an extra strip light. Use 1 full spectrum bulb and one actenic blue. You want these placed OPEN TOP on the aquarium. No glass lid.

This step is very important. You need to get a handfull of "rubble" from the bottom of the live rock bin at the LFS. The bottom of these bins has a ton of life. You just want a handful of the crushed up disguisting sandy rubble at the bottom of the vat. Ask for it and they will give it to you for free. 

The goal of this system is not beauty. The goal is to observe interesting life. I would add 3 blue leg hermit crabs, 1 Turbo Snail, 2 nassarius snails, and 1 fish. The fish needs to be small, obviously. I would suggest a Blue Damsel. Only 1 fish allowed. Don't break this rule.

When you clean, don't worry much about algae growth. Just keep the front glass clean. In fact, you WANT algae growth in this tank. It will provide a safe haven for life to develop.

Then just sit back and watch. Within 3 months there will be life growing that hitchhiked in on the live rock. Copepods, amphipods, small starfish, etc. This tank will be awesome fun. The only maintainance is a 2 gallon water change every other week and DAILY evaporation replacement.


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