# White Spot (Ich) Or Maybe Something Else?



## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Situation is, I currently bought a male starlight bristlenose pleco (or at least I thought it was), this is the only fish I have added in about a month maybe more, about two days after introducing him to the tank I noticed my chain loaches where 'flicking' off of my slate alot on closer inspection I realised they were covered in tiny white dots, I recocnised the problem immediatley or so i thought. 

I started treating with Protozin, any white spot trouble I have had in the past this has shown good results within a couple of days, but this is my second day of treating and I have dosed the tank, once i had finished i examined my fish to see how they were getting on and 4 of my chains are missing and alot of my fish have lost colour and movement is very rare. My royal pleco is now infested, well from what i can see any effected fish are completly covered. The spots looked a bit bigger than normal ich and swollen but they have now shrunk and look the way ich should but the fish that are getting it now have the same problem, larger spots that are swollen slightly.

Since i have started treatment the problem has begun to look like ich, but is there another parasite/fungus infection/bacterial infection that the symtoms would resemble ich?

Yes the tank is overstocked (in my opinion) but it hasn't been for long and I am ordering a 5x2x2 foot tank at the end of the month. I have been looking for a bigger tank for ages and finally found one.

Stats are always fine; Amonnia-0, NitrIte-0, pH-6.9-7.1, NitrAte 0-5 (planted tank).

I am sorry about the length of the post but I wanted as much info in as possible so I can get the problem sorted out before I start losing fish.


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Only 2 chains now missing, one kuhli loach dead. Went in and got some more protozin, hopefully I will start to see results soon.

I am only half dosing due to the fish I have so maybe that is why the problem is taking longer to go away.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

A friend of mine recently had ick in his tank I had him treat with aquarium salt and a tablet that treats ick I have used it before but can not remember the name of it they sale it at petsmart and with in 24 hours the first fish was looking better with less spots after 4 days none of the other fish had gotten it and the one fish only had maybe 4 or 5 spots then after 5 days no more ick.


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Can't use salt because of the loaches in the tank, definitly cant use salt now that treatment is in the tank the loaches and eels find the half dosage hard enough to cope with. Never heard of tablets for ich. Will have a look for the tablets next time I am at my LFS, ta.

Just about to go and feed them so will have a good look and then do another check tomorrow when I treat again. Will update their progress because tomorrow will be the forth day of treatment and will have to wait another 4 days before the last lot of treatment is done.


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## Rohland (Aug 20, 2009)

Did you take the carbon out of your filter? Just making sure!


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Yup , I did. The SBN pleco that caused the problem is dead I found it when I got back from work. Once again I can't find my chain loaches apart from one that is sitting at the bottom of the tank, he looks like he's on his way out .

Spoke to the one of the guys at the fs and I was told I should be quarantining my fish and he will only replace the fish that I bought from there, so I might lose £60 worth of chains and whatever other fish are going to get it and he will give me another fish woo $u*k&n% hoo.


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## Teammuir1 (Sep 15, 2009)

*Treatment for ICK*

Hello... I have not posted here much I prolly should weigh in more but this issue you have 
I figured I would share my story and treatment methods......
I discovered 2 weeks ago that 3 of my Servum Cichlids had white spots I knew immediately what 
they had.. 
So I slowly raised the temperature of the tank up to 80 degrees, I then medicated the Tank the very same day once I aquired the right temp....and yes take out the charcole if you have any before
medicating..... the meds that I used told me to medicate on the first day then the third day and then the 5th day.... I forget the brand , but I also read in a few other places if you Quarintine your fish and your 
fish can handle a 3% salt water solution then you should Dip your fish for 15 min... Well I did this on the second day..... all three got a bath in Salt water solution for 15 min. each day... on the 5th day those guys were HEALTHY and back with the others they swam..... 
now my Quarintine methods was really un orthodox... but I have a big net and I used that to keep the fish in similar to a breeding net.....for the youngins....
I hope this helps you .... provided that your fish will tolerate a salt water solution. IT really did the trick... and the TEMPURATURE of the TANK has to be increased " This speeds up the justation periode of the ick. what I have come to understand is once they are on the host fish the medication will not effect them but once they fall off the fish to BREED.. " Multiply" thats when the medication takes affect and kill the ick.
There are meds for the loaches, they do not have scales.... be sure to use the correct medications.

Hope this helps
Ron


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

I am unable to use salt due to several of my fish, I was also aware of the lifecycle of ich which is why I think that I have more than one problem in the tank.

Yesterday I lost; a veil angle, my fire eel, my leopard frog pleco and one of my chain loaches was dead at the bottom corner of the tank. So I decided to completely clean the entire tank, I filtered the top few cm off my sand substrate, took out my mapani wood and boiled it, took my slate out and scrubbed that down, I only done a 10l water change because the day before I changed 30l and last sunday I changed 70l so this sunday will get a 50l water change done. I will see if it is worth finishing the ich treatment, the fish that are affected by it are all almoat dead due to the secondary problem which I still haven't figured out what it is.


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Teammuir1- Sorry didn't post much to your reply this morning was late for work, the salt bath is something I was told about when I encountered my first case of ich, I was told for the loaches to do a 5 minute max salt bath (because they really don't like it) and follow with a methelene blue bath for 15 mins, but i'm down to 2 chain loaches and 0 kuhli and the chains that are left are past saving (as much as I hate to say it), my eels are unaffected by the ich and the secondary problem. As for raising the temp I know that it speeds up the life cycle of ich but it will do alot of damage to my plants as i have seen in previous cases and I think I might have to deal with this problem for a while. My royal pleco has alot of spots on him but I got him in my net last night and had a look at him, i really don't think its ich he has so I will try and get a pic up so everyone can have a look.


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Royal pleco died last night. My other problem looks like some sort of rot, don't know if its fin or scale, my pleco was at the bottom and it looked like he had skin peeling off of him. My tyre track eel has a large open wound on his tail now aswell. Started treating with finrot&fungus control but its a bit late.

Well at least I only have to wait till friday and I can get my new tank.


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Tyre track eel dead and 1 of the last 4 kuhli loaches died an hour ago.


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

So sorry to hear of all your fish trouble and losses.
What meds are it the tank now? Are the fish still showing signs of ick, or has it moved on to only signs of fin rot and ulcers? Any fuzzy looking white spots on the fish? Is the water still testing zero for ammonia and nitrites? What fish still remain in the tank?


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Last treatment to be used in the tank was methylene blue, there was a mixture of both at one point but I only have a couple of fish still ill left, no fuzzy white spots from what i could see although i think the female cichlid that died had fuzzy spots at the tips of all fins and no other part of the body showed signs of sickness.

The fish that are left;
1x zigzag eel
1x hoplo catfish (still has white spots on body)
3x honey gouramis (have shown no signs of sickness at all)
3x red robin gouramis
2x female bettas (no signs of sickness)
2x female cockatoo cichlids (odd white spoy here and there)
1x male cockatoo cichlid (lost all colour, fins tightly clamped to the body, movement very rare)
1x butterfly pleco
1x F starlight bristlenose pleco


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I know you are planing on a larger tank and this is good. Please correct me if I'm wrong but you currently have a 125 litre approx 33 imperial gal and a 90 litre aprrox 23 imperial gal. Were all of the affected fish from one tank or are both tanks holding recovering fish? I ask because It is entrirely possible that one of the fish you bought did indeed harbor some type of pathogen and considering quarantine was not used the pathogen began to take a toll on an already crowded enviornment. You might be able to use one of your tanks for quarantine if both are not affected or have shared nets,buckets,heaters,or filter material since your unfortunate outbreak.
It is very difficult for even the most seasoned aquarist to properly identify a possible pathogen accurately .And even then, medications may or may not produce the desired results. Many medications don't actually stop disease ,they stop it from spreading. It is the fishes immune sytem and a clean enviornment that helps the fish to actually heal. This is only my opinion, but others more knowledgeable than me,agree.
I would were it me ,not introduce any of the fish from your tanks to the new larger tank until I was certain that they were no longer at risk of exhibiting symptoms of Illness. I would not use anything on the new tank that has come in contact with the sick tank or tanks. I would use a solution of bleach and water to clean all nets,buckets,decorations,etc and rinse the items well and let air dry for at least a day before using them again in ANY of the tanks. 
I would heed the fish stores suggestion from this point on with regards to quarantine tank for all new fish before placing them in display tank.
Some of the fish you have or had, would have some degree of difficulty thriving with the tankmates you listed. For example. Khulii loaches would not compete well for food with eels or hoplo or cory cats. Cockatoos would also appreciate perhaps a little more acidic water (soft) but may acclimate to your water.But am doubtful they would breed sucessfully.(you indicated in another thread breeding?)
Royal plecos along with some other species of plecos don't do well with other Plecos and some will kill unwanted visitors outright.(especially in crowded tanks.) 
The Kuhliis ,.eels,,,and plecos are largely nocturnal, and it it sometimes difficult to see,know,that all are getting their share of food.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Sorry, had to cut previous post short. Am filling boilers at work and must keep on top of them.

You indicated that you removed carbon before using medications and this is good. It is however also important not to place the same carbon back into the filter after medicating. Some folks remove the carbon and keep it wet, and then stick it back in the filter and possibly introduce the same pathogen or parasite back into the tank. 
Best to use new carbon to remove medications and medications should be removed BEFORE using any other medications.
Water changes in heavily stocked aquariums are often needed two to three times a week to achieve 0 ammonia,0 nitrites,and NitAtes at low levels 20 ppm being ideal. If these water parameters are kept up, many fish can recover with or without the use of medications. Medications are helpful in my view but as mentioned it is very difficult to know exactly what we are treating for. many diseases share similar symptoms.
I probably haven't given you much in the way of a cure for the fish,but am hopeful that I may have helped you or others from expieriencing a similar problem down the road.


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Yes they are the tanks I have, 125l is the effected tank 90l is clean, I do not use any of my nets/filters/gravel cleaners or any other tank equipment for both tanks, I have 3 filters in my 90l and 2 in my 125l, I also have 3 nets and 3 gravel cleaners.

I understand that in an overcrowded tank disease/illness can spread easier, healthy fish have better immune systems. As for water changes, I do at least a 70% water change on sundays and that is the same day I do not feed my fish. As I mentioned I have 3 gravel cleaners, 1 large one, 1 small one, and 1 that is battery powered this one has a hose attachment and a porous bag which you can attach and it sucks up all excess food and fish waste (poo), after my water change I spend the rest of the week cleaning out the tanks with the gc that has the bag so that there is nothing in the tank to decompose and effect ammonia. I have never had a big problem with my stats, they usually only increase by a tiny amount towards the end of the week.

The 90l only has a pair of kribs, a pair of BN plecos, a small zigzag eel and a red bellied newt. The 125l when it was stocked with all my fish before the losses was fed; 2 blocks of bloodworm, 1 block of brineshrimp, 6 small pleco wafers and ground up flake food for the shrimps, my kuhlis always filtered the sand during feeding so I put in extra flake so as they were filtering through the sand they would get food if they were unable to get any of the frozen food.

When I started treatment the carbon was removed, i never reuse carbon once it was removed I just binned it. When I used the whitespot meds I continued to filter the sand with the bag filter then once I had stopped I left it a day then done a 50% water change, I treated with fungus control for a couple of days then done an additional 50% water change, after that I had lost the majority of my fish and I removed 20l of water then treated with methylene blue. Have not done a water change since but will be doing a major clean up of the tank on friday. I think by that point all sick fish will be gone.

The cockatoos were for breeding but they were going to get there own tank, I only had them in the tank until they were slightly bigger and and I could cycle their tank and get the stats right for them before they were introduced.

I will be trading in my f bettas and red robin gouramis and the female cockatoo cichlids, possibly the hoplo if he recovers. Once they are away I will see if I am still able to get my bigger tank. I will be getting a 60l quarantine tank first so I will not have a repeat of this incident, I hope I will be able to bounce back and get everything running smoothly again.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

It is ndeed a painful lesson. Many,(myself included) have learned it in just such a way. I am sure you will recover nicely.


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## Gav (Aug 22, 2009)

Male cockatoo cichlid is dead now and that seems to be the last ot my sick fish gone. Just need to figure out what to do with my tank now as the only fish i think I will be keeping from whats left is my zigzag eel and the plecos.


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