# Ember and Lemon Tetras 10 gallon tank?



## small fry

Hello! I love tetras alot! I am planning on doing some major fish switching soon. Right now I have 2 Lemon Tetras, 2 Swordtails (1 is a fry), and a corydoras (which is going bye bye). I want to remove the corydoras from the tank. I love my corydoras and I've had him since June (when I started fish) but I don't have enough room for him, Swordtails, and Tetras.

Secondly, this is the big question. Will Lemons and Embers school together? Do they interbreed, or follow each other around just like they would with thier own spieces? I would like to mix them. Something like 4 LT and 2 ET. Does anybody with tetra expirence think that will work?

And does anybody think that 2 Swordtails and 6 Tetras (such as ember or lemon) would be over stocking?

I am trying to go from fake plants to live plants to increase the oxygen in my tank. I am also thinking about an air filter setup (that should cost about $15 to $30 dollars, right?) in my tank. Does anybody think with an air filter and plants I would have room for the eight fish?

10 gallon Tank:
4 Lemon Tetras
2 Ember Tetras
2 Swordtails

Does that seem like a problem?


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## kitten_penang

you need at least 6 tetras of the same species but due to your tank size ,maybe 4 of each will work. they will only swimming thighly together if they are scared or stressed.in normal situations they will ,mostly swim where they want too


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## small fry

So do you think,
4 Lemon Tetras
4 Ember Tetras
2 Swordtails
is a little bit overstocked? Even though I plan to heavily plant my tank and install an air filter (on top of my 15 gallon power filter), thats still a lot of fish for a 10 gallon.

So the Embers and Lemons won't school together? I will need to get a school of both if I want to get both?

It will be a little while before my plants grow and I get rid of that terrible mouthrot, so I have a while to think about it. But anymore Tetras is probably better than only the two I have in with the Swordtails.

Any imput is and will be apprietiated!:-D
Thanks!


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## Byron

First, I would not recommend lemon tetra in a 10g tank; all tetra need to be in a group, minimum 6, and there is not sufficient room in a 10g for a group of tetra that can attain 1.6 inches in length. We have fish profiles here, second tab from the left in the blue bar at the top, and info in each fish profile about minimum tank size, number of fish, compatibility, etc. Check out the profile for Lemon Tetra. You can also click on the shaded fish name in posts to see that profile.

A group of 9 Ember Tetra would be ideal in a planted 10g, along with some bottom fish like a trip of average-sized Corydoras or a group of one of the dwarf species. All these are in the profiles too, under Catfish.

I would not suggest swordtails with Embers, the latter will likely be seen as snacks.

Last comment on tetra "schooling." Tetra like most characins, and barbs, danio, rasbora, are shoaling fish which means they live together in large groups. They technically do not "school" which is mainly a marine fish behaviour, but they need to be in a group for various reasons. While they will live together in different species groups, and sometimes swim together, they must have a group of their own species to be healthy.

Byron.


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## small fry

Ok. I am thinking of a solution for the Swordtails, but I want to see if I can get a bigger tank (even though today I have $5 to my name that are about to go to plants).

So here is another question. If I remove my swordtails could I just put 4 Lemons and 4 Embers with live plants and air filter? I really love my 2 lemons (alot!) and I want to get them some friends and still have a different spieces of Tetra also.

If that wont work maybe I can get a knew solution. But that is my prefered setup.


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## Byron

small fry said:


> Ok. I am thinking of a solution for the Swordtails, but I want to see if I can get a bigger tank (even though today I have $5 to my name that are about to go to plants).
> 
> So here is another question. If I remove my swordtails could I just put 4 Lemons and 4 Embers with live plants and air filter? I really love my 2 lemons (alot!) and I want to get them some friends and still have a different spieces of Tetra also.
> 
> If that wont work maybe I can get a knew solution. But that is my prefered setup.


I guess I need to explain things a bit more, on the shoaling aspect. Fish such as characins, rasbora, danio and barbs that live together in large groups do so by natural instinct. They feel safer together. Many species have a sort of hierarchy within the groups. Some have a distinct pecking order. When such fish are forced to live in too small a group, it is highly stressful; their natural instincts tell them they need to be with their own species in a group and if not, they are in trouble. Stress causes immune system deficiencies (just as in humans, we now know) which can lead to disease issues that would otherwise never be seen in the aquarium. And recent scientific evidence has proven that "peaceful" fish will frequently become aggressive due to the stress, solely as a result of not being in a sufficiently large enough group or shoal.

This is why I also recommend that aquarists plan the fish they want before buying the tank, filter, light. The size of tank, the type of filtration, and the light should all be dependent upon the specific fish species that are to be housed in the tank. Not all fish prefer water movement, but some need more than others. And so forth.

A group of six tetra is about the smallest that will work, and a few more is much better and more likely to be more healthy. There is simply not enough "space" in a 10g to do justice to the fish. But the smaller species can work very well.

Having said that, if you are determined to have Lemon Tetra, get six of them. Have live plants, dim light, and minimal filtration. And then do a 50% water change every week without fail. And save up for a larger tank; a 20g is minimum size for Lemon Tetra to be at their best. They need--and deserve--adequate space to be themselves.


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## small fry

Man! That sure is disapointing! If I go with lemons I can't do embers, or anything else? That is sad. I don't want my 2 lemons to be sad. I don't want to stock my only 10 gallon community tank with only one spieces of tetra. :-(.

I don't know if I can give away my lemons, because it has had mouthrot (and has it right now). Maybe I should just start completely over? Hmm...I am in a diffecult situation. Can't keep the corydoras because I don't want a "group." Can't keep the Swordtails cause they are 20 gallon tank fish. Can't keep the Tetras because I'll only have one spieces of fish. Can't afford a 20 gallon tank, and even if I could my parents might not let me have it.

Fish is hard!

Are there any other Tetras besides ember that would "group" with the Lemons like thier own kind? Glowlights? Red Flame? Bleeding Heart? Any of them? I would like to keep the 2 Lemon Tetras and have another Tetra spieces that would do well with the lemons, if there is a species that actually interacts with lemons like thier own kind. If there is not than I might need to try something else. Start over.

I am not trying to be stubborn, I'm just trying to find a solution.

Thanks for your patience!


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## small fry

My goal for GatorSwamp is 2 species of Tetra. I guess it wont work with lemons and anything.
So reguardless, I will have to lose my Lemons if I want more than one spieces. If I can put anything with 6 Lemons in a 10 please let me know!

Otherwise I guess I just have to give away all my fish:-(.

Secondly,
Just jumping ahead here in case the lemons don't work out, here is my idea for my 10gal. I want 2 fish for it. 1 angelfish and one blue gourami. I know there are slightly aggressive, but they are both slow moving and like to hide right? What do you all think?

Anyway, if the tetras will work I would like to know. That is my first priority.
An I would like to know your opinion on the second.

Any post are and will be appreciated! Thanks!


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## thefishboy

I think the angel fish and gourami are definate no-nos in a 10 gallon tank!!!!!!!!!!!


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## small fry

Yeah, the gourmi and angelfish is pushing it. I figured I probably wouldn't get a good response. But hey, cool fish, it was worth the try.

As for the tetras, I know this is _really _pushing it but if you use the surface area rule (I don't know what it is officially called) I can put 16" of fish. 6 Lemons and 6 Embers is 14.6. And besides that, I am planning on planting GatorSwamp (my 10g) and installing an air filter.

And I was curious. Did bryant say minimal filteration? I am not very experianced with tetras but, why minimal filteration? And does that include air filter? Should I purchase and air filter? I have a power filter, is that too much filteration? And in a planted tank do I need high nitrates?

I don't know. I am just trying to find a good solution to stocking.

And if anybody has any suggestions including angelfish or gourami I will consider them.

Any imput is and will be appretiated!

Thanks!


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## thefishboy

I think minimal filtration is because the tetras dont like a huge/ fast flow.
I no im not an expert but couldnt u maybe get 4 more Lemon Tetras, and maybe some smallish centrsl fish, or a trio?? Or some Otocinclis


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## small fry

What is a small central fish? Or a trio? I couldn't find anything on these kinds of fish. I really am not that interested in catfish. I am trying to give up a corydoras cat right now because my other one died (I don't even know why) afew weeks ago.

Could I get neons? How many of those can I have with 6 Lemons? And will that be enough? I also like live bearers. Could I get 6 Lemon Tetras and a platy? I really haven't done alot of research on platys so please don't recommend them if the minimum tank size is bigger than a 10.

And should I get rid of my power filter? I can go to my other LFS and get an empty 10 for $13. I can go to my other LFS and get an air filter for $15. Should I use an air filter for the tetras? I could not imagine letting that water go still! I would have my ammonioa _soar_!

Thanks for imput!


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## thefishboy

I meanb y central fish 1 specific fish that is nice and colourful, or a trio of smaller nice coloured fish, im not sure about filrtation not good on that, is there any possibility you could get a slightly bigger tank?? 15 gallons??
I wouldnt see a problem with a platy or 2? But im not an expert!


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## small fry

Wah!!!
I wish I could but I am on a steady income of $10 in spending money a week with $7 to my name (that doesn't include the $1100+ I put in the bank), I am not broke. I am just broke for fish.

About the filter. I wasn't sure if I should get just an air filter for my 10g and use the power filter I have now for another 10g (I could get an empty 10 gallon tank for $13).

If I only used an air filter would that be ok with a platy? I have heard they are pretty messy. I don't know if either of my local fish stores have a soft filter that wouldn't effect the current as much and has a tiny stream.

Thanks for your fast response to this thread!
Any imput is and will be appreciated!


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## thefishboy

I havent heard that platys are messy, do u have an internal filter?? Because on my filter they are very powerful but you can control the flow high or low


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## VTonic

You should absolutly keep your power filter running. As far as the angel fish and gourami I would not suggest that as they might fight, both can be classified as semi aggressive though most of the time they are calm. Now, about the lemons, as Byron said, you realy need as least 6 of them or they may not thrive. I am unfamiliar with the surface area rule your mentioned earlier but the one that is commonly excepted is 1 inch of fish for 1 gallon of water. Based on that you could only have 10 inches of fish in your tank. In my personaly opinion, that is even a little to tight for fish. I hate to rain on your parade but if I were in your shoes, I would save up the $10 a week and upgrade to a 20gal, or, im afraid that if you are set on tetras or some other type of schooling fish you are going to need to settle with one species. At the end of the day you can do whatever you want, but your fish would be paying a pretty high price. If your set on having more than one species in your 10gal, and no one will be able to persuade you otherwise then you have to have to have to keep up on your water changes and make sure you have ample filtration. And get prepared for sick fish.


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## small fry

Ok. Maybe I can save up for a 20g. But that will take several weeks even if I don't buy anything. What do I do until then? Leave them on the power filter? Can I still use my power filter if I keep the waterfall very tiny?

So I guess 6 Lemon Tetras and a platy won't work? I mean, a platy is only 2 inches. If I stay on top of water changes, have the best possible filtration (without upsetting the tetras), and plant the tank, can't the tank be just a little overstocked? That is about 10.5 inches of fish right? And the 1 inch per gallon rule doesn't include the plants in the math.

Does anybody know where to get used tanks off the internet? Just curious.

Thanks for posting!


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## Byron

Yes, we are all trying to give you the benefit of our experiences, losing fish, having sick fish--many of us went through it because when we started (at least when I did back when I was in school and that was decades ago:shock there was no internet with forums to go for advice, and we learned by failing and lost many fish along the way.

Anyway, you need to decide what you want first, and then work towards it. If you really want Lemon Tetra, fine; as I said, get 4 more so you have 6, and they will manage in your 10g. When you can afford a 20g, you can move them in there with another species, like neons (6 of them). And perhaps 5 corys for the lower level interest, or something else; corys also need to be in a group, 5 works well and is workable in a 20g tank.

On the other hand, if the 10g is it for the present, then select fish that will be happy (= healthy) in a 10g. Ember Tetra work fine, a group of 7-9; there are other small fish, have a look at the dwarf rasbora, Boraras brigittae, in the profiles; or the Scarlet Badis, Dario dario.

Livebearers were mentioned; the Embers and other fish above are soft water fish, while livebearers are harder water fish. Nothing has been mentioned yet about your tap water parameters (hardness, pH). This has a bearing on which fish are compatible.

A comment on filtration; most of these fish prefer less water movement. In a 10g and 20g tank, an ideal filter is a simple sponge filter connected to a small air pump. Something else to think about.

Byron.


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## Calmwaters

As Byron said the 10 gallon is not big enough for two types of any tetra. You should stick with only one if you do the lemons you will have to do a 50% water change weekly even with the plants. The angel and gourami are definatly a no in a 10 gallon as the angel gets way to big and if you want to have other fish with the gourami your tank will need to be bigger than a 10 because the gourami can be aggressive. You should be fine with only the one filter you should not need two. If I were you and I am not I would do like someone else said and save up your money and get a bigger tank then you will have more options. If you look on craigslist you can sometimes find them pretty cheap.


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## small fry

I have heard about these sponge filters but I don't know hardly anything about them. My Tetra 5-15 Power filter has something called a bio cartridge that I am not supposed to change (ever). What is the sponge for? My LFStores carry the brands Tetra and AquaCulture. I don't know if they have sponge filters. How much should a sponge filter cost?

Tetras are soft water fish!?!?! :shock: ! That is not good. What about swordtails? I think I'm keeping the swordails until I can get a tank upgrade! They have lived together for months! Maye that is why my Lemons are pale. :-(.

Maybe I can get a 20g tank and put the swordtails and corydoras in there (if swordtails and corydoras are hard water fish), and have a school of lemons in the 10g. How do I make the water soft?

Until I get an upgrade, GatorSwamp is going to have to be hard water (75). At least I adjusted the 8.0 pH to 7.0 pH afew months ago.

Just curious, is there a tiny fish that tollerates soft water that I can put in with the lemons, that doesn't group (so I can get 1)?

Thanks for responding to this thread!


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## Calmwaters

You really need to research the fish you like. In a 10 gallon I personally would not put any other fish in it with the lemons. If you have hard water you should get fish that will do well in your water for the sake of your fish. As Byron mentioned we do have the fish profile tab at the top if I were you I would go threw each one look at the picture to find a fish you like then read what it says about that fish to see if it will fit your tank and water permeters.


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## small fry

Sorry thefishboy, I didn't get see your post until just now. I don't know about platys but somewhere I read that they are messy. It wasn't TFK. Who knows?

Right now I have an external filter. Would an internal filter that has adjustable flow be just as good as a sponge filter?

Thanks!


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## small fry

I have a plan! I think this will work! And I can keep my Swordtails with a little bit of room for more!

Ok, here is the plan. I have to buy an internal filter because the water flow is to heavy for my Lemons, right? So that will leave my Tetra-unfriendly power filter not even in use. I can go to my other LFS and get an empty 10g tank and put my old filter (which I've only had since June) and put it on the new tank! How does that sound?

Then I can move my swordtails over. I have to find something to do with my corydoras, though. I don't have room for 5 of them and my 2 Swortails. Besides, I want to get a platy! Platys and Swordtails should do fine together, right?

I also think guppies are pretty but, I read on the Tropical Fish Profiles (up top) that you should not put them with other fish that nip fins. I know from expirence that at least one of my Swordtails will nip fins (when my betta lived with my 3 fish in GatorSwamp, back when I had 4 fish in GatorSwamp). Will it leave the guppy alone because they are both livebearers (right?)? You all can give me ypo (your personal opinion).

So the Lemons I plan to leave in the tank they're in now. I really want a glass shrimp in that tank. I couldn't find anything on glass shrimp. I need to know if the shrimp will (or could) harm my Tetras, alter pH and softness to unsuitable (and stay unsuitable), if it will overstock my aquarium, or if it will be attacked by my Lemons. Can anybody tell me if they think 6 Lemons and a glass shrimp will work? Thanks!

I also want to plant GatorSwamp (Tetras 10g). The only plants I can find are Aponogeton bulbs. I have never researched plants because...I don't know how. If Aponogeton bulbs are a problem with Tetras, glass shrimp, or water chemistry (soft water, 6.8pH) please let me know. I already planted 2 afew months ago. But I can remove them if they are causeing problems.

This is my planned setup so please post if something won't work. I should be able to afford this in just afew less than a month!

Tank 1 (Tetras 10g) _pH 6.8, temp 76, internal filter, planted_
6 Lemon Tetras
1 Glass Shrimp

Tank 2 (livebearers 10g)_ pH 7.6, temp 78, power filter_
2 Swordtails
1 Platy
_1 Guppy?_

If this setup is a problem, please post. Thanks!


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## Calmwaters

Since you already have the one cory why don't you instead of the guppy and platy add 2 more corys of the same kind? Corys really are great little fish if you give them a chance mine swim all over the tank and are fun to watch because they are always active looking for food. And 3 would be ok in a 10 gallon with the 2 swordtails. 
By glass shrimp do you mean ghost shrimp? They look like this:

If so they should be fine with the Lemons and you could probably do maybe 3 in there because they have a very very low bioload. I have them in with Ember Tetras which are alot smaller than your lemons and they are alot of fun to eatch and help keep the tank clean. They only cost about 15 cents and are well worth it.


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## small fry

I guess I meant to say ghost shrimp. Maybe my LFS can order some.

I had my hopes up for a platy in the tank. Will 2 Corys be Ok with 2 Swordtails and a Platy?

Thanks for posting!


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## Calmwaters

3 would be the min for the corys you may be okay to do the 3 corys, 2 swordtails and a platy as long as you keep up the water changes and if you could plant alot of plants that would help even more.


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## small fry

THANK YOU SO MUCH:-D

Thank you everybody for the help! I will probably have everything set up in about a month! Thanks for the help from all who posted!

Thanks!
Small fry,

=-)


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## small fry

I also have a few more things to cover.

Do you think I can put another 10g on this shelf (sorry my room is a mess today);















Haha my betta lives in the 1.5g















I think I could put a 29g on that thing if it didn't have 10s. It is pretty sturdy. It hasn't bent much at all with the first tank.


Secondly, I really need to get my swordtails and corydoras out so that I can soften the water of GatorSwamp (Tetras 10g). Should I put the Swordtails and the Corydoras through the cycle (one of my swordtails is a fry)?

How do you soften tank water?

What do you all think I should do?


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## Byron

First on the shelf, I see it bending from the weight of the 10g; I suspect a 29g (three times the weight) would bring it crashing down some night, if not immediately. Even as it is, there is a risk; an uneven support for any tank can cause the tank to contort (if that is the word I'm looking for) to the extent that the frame is uneven and the weight of the water on the glass can cause the silicone seal to break, or crack the glass especially on the bottom. I would invest in a sturdy stand for the 29g, even if just two concrete blocks (on the floor) with a 3/4 inch sheet of plywood; simple but very stable and solid.

Your question on softening water is complicated to answer. Water hardness is determined by the mineral content of the source water, primarily calcium and magnesium. Removing mineral from water can be done easiest with a Reverse Osmosis (RO) unit, but this is very expensive. Diluting the water with soft water such as rainwater (if you live where it is safe to use) or distilled water will work, and in a 10g it would not take that much to be overly expensive (if you have to buy the water). Or filtering the water through peat; this will stain the water brownish, not unhealthy for the fish, but not everyone like the appearance. And the peat lasts so long and then has to be replaced. Using a product like Blackwater tonic also works, though you have to keep buying it for each water change.


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## small fry

I am sorry, I didn't mean I was going to get a 29g, I just meant I thought the dresser could support it. Sometimes I am impossible to understand. Sorry.

As for now though. Putting another 10g tank on the shelf is out of the question, right? You say it is becomeing weaker? I guess I can cut a piece of strong plywood and lay it on top of the dresser and put only my Tetras 10g tank on. I just can't think wear I would put a new one. Maybe I can put it on the other side of my room.

I don't think buying a stand will be apprecieted by my parents, but the only other surface avalible is the _other _side of my computer desk (the other side has a 10g on it called CichlidRock). I think my dresser is a lot stronger than my computer desk so that is deffinately out of the question. Maybe I can get a bedside table or a 10g tank stand that would support the wieght. Who knows.

About the water softening. What percent distilled water do I need to mix with the fresh water? I don't want to overdo the distilled, and I don't want to underdo the distilled.

Thanks!


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## redchigh

Similiar to Byrons idea, how about 8 Ember tetras and 8 neons?
Would be a fair bit of variety, could mix in a trio of small cories, and throw some plants in.


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## small fry

So I can just take some concrete blocks and a 3/4" piece of plywood and I have a stand? Wow! That is cool!

8 Emebers, 8 Neons, and 3 Corydoras? I you talking about a 29 gallon or a 10?

Thanks!


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## small fry

Byron said:


> First on the shelf, I see it bending from the weight of the 10g; I suspect a 29g (three times the weight) would bring it crashing down some night, if not immediately. Even as it is, there is a risk; an uneven support for any tank can cause the tank to contort (if that is the word I'm looking for) to the extent that the frame is uneven and the weight of the water on the glass can cause the silicone seal to break, or crack the glass especially on the bottom. I would invest in a sturdy stand for the 29g, even if just two concrete blocks (on the floor) with a 3/4 inch sheet of plywood; simple but very stable and solid.


You say that my tank could crack soon? How soon? Within the next month?

I can work with my dad on building a strong desk/shelf, with flooring plywood and solid concrete blocks. It might be a while before I can afford everything I need. Should I take out a loan from my parents? I am trying to come up with a design for the shelf. I think we are talking about making it about 3 feet tall and 7 feet or so long, with concrete blocks in the middle for support.

Last thing I can afford right now is a diesaster. If anybody has any ideas or suggestions, please let me know! Thanks!


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## Byron

I doubt your 10g is likely to blow apart any time soon; but don't jiggle it around, water is quite heavy and there is pressure on the glass from the water pushing out.

For the stand, 3/4 or even 1-inch plywood for the tank(s) to sit on supported by standing concrete blocks or 2 or 3 stacked horizontally at each end works fine; my 70g is sitting on this arrangement. I would definitely suggest two columns of blocks, it will be much sturdier. The plywood must extend just past the frame of the tank on all 4 sides to ensure adequate support. The wood allows the tank frame to "sink" into it should there be any slight variances in the frame as sometimes happens.


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## small fry

Thank you so much for explaning the inexpensive, simple way to set up an aquarium stand! I think we will use this method for my own tanks! Thanks!


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## redchigh

My ideas about the embers and neons would be for a 10 gallon-

Both fish are tiny.

Of course, they are also soft-water.

If you have hardwater, you could go with some small danio species...


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## small fry

You're kidding! Are you serious?
8 Embers
8 Neons
3 Corydoras
That is not overstocked? That is 19 fish, for a 10 gallon tank!

I'm just posting this post to make sure there is no error. That is amazing!

Thanks!


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## Calmwaters

I still think that would be to many fish. I had almost the same set up except there were 8 Ember, 6 neons, 5 dwarf corys, 2 ADF and 2 Ghost shrimp and the fish were not happy and I had a hard time even with plants and weekly water change keeping the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates in check. I removed the Neons, and the corys and things are much better and the embers are much more active.


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## small fry

How about 6 neons, 6 embers, 3 albino corydoras and a Ghost shrimp? That might be overdoing it a little. I just realized today that my corydoras is a soft water fish (I think), so I am going to try to get him in with the tetras, which is going to take about 6" off my other 10g. Any ideas?

I think I will find a good home for my lemons. It wasn't an issue until I realized that corydoras are soft water. If anybody has any stocking suggestions other than 6 neons, 6 embers, and 3 corydoras, or if you think that is also overstocked (it probably is but I am just suggesting...), please post ypo.

Thanks!

(I'll get this figured out eventually;-))


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## Calmwaters

I still think your pushing it a little bit but if you are going to have lots and lots of plants and are sure you do you water changes you might be ok.


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## Byron

I am just not in agreement with the "neon" size characins in a 10g--and certainly not 8 of them--when there are so many other possibilities that will not be "on the brink" if you understand my meaning. Corys (3 "normal" size, or 7-9 of one of the dwarf species) work because they are mainly substrate fish (the medium sized ones, the dwarf species tend to spend more time mid-water than on the substrate) and 3 of them can have quite a time poking around some bits of bogwood, plants, etc. without requiring a lot of swimming space. Mid-water fish like tetra are a very different story. Neons are not particularly active swimmers, but they still should have some space to navigate. And the water quality issue is also pertinent; the two are connected and both are essential to keep in mind.

Assuming soft water, you have Ember Tetra, Mosquito Rasbora (there are several species in the Boraras genus, this one (Boraras brigittae) happens to be in our profiles so I use it), Scarlet Badis, Sparkling Gourami, various pencilfish, hatchetfish (the species in Carnegiella only, and of these Carnegiella myersi would be ideal but also Carnegiella marthae). And this only includes fish I happen to have myself and am familiar with. All of these will get along fine, though I am not suggesting all these in one 10g, but a choice of 3-4 is possible. Going this route, you may have to hunt a bit for the fish as some are less commonly available (maybe turn up a couple times a year, not always as neons usually are), but you will have more fish in the tank, they will be suitable and thus healthy, and there will be more variety with the various behaviours, water level activity, etc. And lots of plants as someone mentioned earlier.

I have a 10g presently; it has 7 Corydoras pygmaeus (which I often have to hunt for, there is so much plant growth they are forever exploring and sitting on leaves here and there) and 9 Boraras brigittae. I would add more fish, except I am also using this tank to raise my Farlowella fry, as it is in the window (natural light experiment) and algae readily grows in it. A trio of Sparkling gourami (I have these in my 33g at present) would fit in nicely. Lots of options, but keep the fish size in proportion to the tank space.

Byron.


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## Calmwaters

As I have said before I really don't think the neons are a good idea in the 10 gallon tank. Like Byron said they need more room.


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## small fry

Neons, no. Ok. That's cool. I would only be interested in them because of thier incredabley small size. I want all my fish to be happy.

Are hatchetfish expensive? Funny, I reasearched hatchetfish earlier today before people started posting. Soft water, pH is right, who knows? I am thinking maybe something like;
7 embers
3 albino corydoras
and maybe room for suggestions? I probably don't have room for embers and hatchets with the corydoras, right?

Also, I guess this isn't really off topic but in my other tank that I'm moving the Swordtails into seems a little bit understocked. I was going to put the corydoras in the tank with the swordtails until I learned that corydoras were soft water. Right now the setup is probably going to look like this;
2 Swordtails
3 Platy
and room for more?

I just want lots of fish for the room I have, but more importantly, I want my fish to be happy.

Open for suggestions, Thanks!


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## Calmwaters

Remind me again what size is the other tank?


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## small fry

10g and a 10g.


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## small fry

Sorry for such a short message, I ran out of time. I plan to have a soft water 10 gallon (the one I have now), and a hard water 10 gallon (the one I don't have, yet).

Hello again. I've been researching my options a little better now. I don't think I will get hatchetfish. They are beautiful to look at but are diffacult to care for. I think I will go with the adorable little ember tetras. Also, I was going to put a ghost shrimp in with my lemons (back when I was thinking about keeping them) but now I am putting the corydoras in the soft water 10 gallon, so will the corydoras an shrimp be a problem?

Also, this is probably pushing it but there is no harm in asking. How about a trio of sparkling gouramis? Gouramis are probably one of my favorite fish, but I've never had one due to size and aggression. Or if a dwarf gourami wouldn't be a problem, worth a try (maybe).

The soft water setup would be something like this;
pH 6.2, temp 76, hardness 5-15? internal filter for reduced water flow.
6-8 Ember Tetras (depending on what else I get)
3 Albino Corydoras
maybe;
3 sparkling gouramis
-or-
1 dwarf gourami
Thats the plan anyway. I probably wont be able to get those gouramis in but, who knows, embers are small. A sparkling is only a tad bigger. I don't know how dwarfs and tetras would interact, though.

Any help is and will be appreciated! Thanks!


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## Byron

small fry said:


> Sorry for such a short message, I ran out of time. I plan to have a soft water 10 gallon (the one I have now), and a hard water 10 gallon (the one I don't have, yet).
> 
> Hello again. I've been researching my options a little better now. I don't think I will get hatchetfish. They are beautiful to look at but are diffacult to care for. I think I will go with the adorable little ember tetras. Also, I was going to put a ghost shrimp in with my lemons (back when I was thinking about keeping them) but now I am putting the corydoras in the soft water 10 gallon, so will the corydoras an shrimp be a problem?
> 
> Also, this is probably pushing it but there is no harm in asking. How about a trio of sparkling gouramis? Gouramis are probably one of my favorite fish, but I've never had one due to size and aggression. Or if a dwarf gourami wouldn't be a problem, worth a try (maybe).
> 
> The soft water setup would be something like this;
> pH 6.2, temp 76, hardness 5-15? internal filter for reduced water flow.
> 6-8 Ember Tetras (depending on what else I get)
> 3 Albino Corydoras
> maybe;
> 3 sparkling gouramis
> -or-
> 1 dwarf gourami
> Thats the plan anyway. I probably wont be able to get those gouramis in but, who knows, embers are small. A sparkling is only a tad bigger. I don't know how dwarfs and tetras would interact, though.
> 
> Any help is and will be appreciated! Thanks!


I would have Sparkling Gourami over the Dwarf; there are issues health-wise with the latter fish these days, plus the size. The Sparkling and Embers is a good combo; are you set on the Albino corys? No problems, just asking, as the dwarf corys in your water would be perfect, and a group of 7 would add more interest. On the hatchets, the pygmy (Carnegiella myersi) is rather delicate, but the marthae in suitable water like yours should have no issues; a group of 6-7 would add interest at the surface. For a 10g that would in fact be quite an interesting and active display: hatchets, Embers, Sparkling gourami trio, corys.


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## small fry

Wow! Incredible! So I can have something like;
6-7 ember tetras
6-7 mable hatchets
1-3 sparking gouramis
3-7 pygmy corydoras
I am not exactly sure about the numbers, though. If anyone has recomendations for the numbers, it would be appreciated. Wow, this is neat! Thanks!


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## Byron

small fry said:


> Wow! Incredible! So I can have something like;
> 6-7 ember tetras
> 6-7 mable hatchets
> 1-3 sparking gouramis
> 3-7 pygmy corydoras
> I am not exactly sure about the numbers, though. If anyone has recomendations for the numbers, it would be appreciated. Wow, this is neat! Thanks!


Yes, this is the way to stock smaller tanks like a 10g, with small fish; you can have more so there is variety and interest. Trouble is, of course, some of these neat fish are not easy to find regularly; I frequently wait months for the fish I want in this or that tank, but it is worth the wait. And they have water parameter specifics, but you have that issue solved (lucky you;-)).

Seven Embers, six hatchets, 3 sparkling gourami (definitely 3, they are social interactive fish and will readily spawn if you have male/female and floating plants), no less than 5 of the pygmy corys, 7 is better.


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## small fry

Thank you so much! Maybe my lfs can order some! They've ordered me supplies before (even though it took 2 weeks). Who knows? I think that setup sounds _perfect_! I had no idea what you could put in a 10 gallon aquarium! Thanks!:-D

It will probably be about 2 weeks before I get everything setup. I can probably use water from my other tanks to skip having to cycle it.

I just have 1 question. To soften water using distilled, what is the percent of distilled water I would need to use? for example __% of a gallon.

If I can get everything set up as planned I might be able to post pics in a few weeks. Should I use this thread since everybody who helped is subscribed or should I start a new thread?

Thanks!
small fry


=-)


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## Calmwaters

I don't know about the % of distilled water but I do know that you can not skip the cycle useing the water from the other tank because ther is not really much bacteria in the actual water its in the filter and gravel and decorations. If you get lots and lots of plants in the tank then you will not have to worry about the cycle.


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## Byron

Amanda is correct. Tanks have to be cycled, or if you have enough live plants, they cycle themselves with just a few fish at first. This is the easiest and safest method, so get lots of plants at the start. I usually set the tank yup one day, with plants, wood, etc. but no fish, get the filter and heater running, and leave it overnight to ensure there are no problems (heater and filter work, no leaks, etc). Then add a few fish (having used water conditioner the first day obviously). There is no benefit at all to using existing tank water, in fact quite the opposite as you will be introducing ammonia and perhaps other things without reason. Nitrifying bacteria live on surfaces covered by water, so moving over plants, wood, rocks or substrate from an existing tank (without washing these) would transfer bacteria. This is useful if fish are also being moved over the same day. But without a source of ammonia and nitrite (the food for the bacteria), they will die within several hours.

On the mix of distilled and tap, it depends upon the volume of water in the tank and the hardness of the tap water.


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## small fry

Calmwaters said:


> I don't know about the % of distilled water but I do know that you can not skip the cycle useing the water from the other tank because ther is not really much bacteria in the actual water its in the filter and gravel and decorations. If you get lots and lots of plants in the tank then you will not have to worry about the cycle.


You can't? What happened to my cichlids? I gave them 60% of the water from my other 10 gallon tank. The rest of the water was new, right out of the bottle. My friend who gave me the cichlids dumped out all of the water from the cichlids. I just added water from my other tank, no plants. Tested the ammonia for the next 2 weeks. No ammonia or nitrites. They seemed perfectly healthy to me.

I guess I can learn a new method if I need to...


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## Calmwaters

You were lucky that time if you did not have any problems.


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## small fry

Byron said:


> Amanda is correct. Tanks have to be cycled, or if you have enough live plants, they cycle themselves with just a few fish at first. This is the easiest and safest method, so get lots of plants at the start. I usually set the tank yup one day, with plants, wood, etc. but no fish, get the filter and heater running, and leave it overnight to ensure there are no problems (heater and filter work, no leaks, etc). Then add a few fish (having used water conditioner the first day obviously). There is no benefit at all to using existing tank water, in fact quite the opposite as you will be introducing ammonia and perhaps other things without reason. Nitrifying bacteria live on surfaces covered by water, so moving over plants, wood, rocks or substrate from an existing tank (without washing these) would transfer bacteria. This is useful if fish are also being moved over the same day. But without a source of ammonia and nitrite (the food for the bacteria), they will die within several hours.
> 
> On the mix of distilled and tap, it depends upon the volume of water in the tank and the hardness of the tap water.


Are you saying you can cycle a tank in 1 day!? Serious? That sounds very convienient!

I am not doubting at all I am just making sure I read this correctly. So you _can _cycle a tank in a day (or parts of 2 anyways)? Thanks!


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## Calmwaters

Yes if you have lots and lots of plants that is the main thing you have to be sure of LOTS and LOTS of plants. ; )


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## small fry

Unfortunately, that is what I thought. I have 2 live plants between all my aquariums. I am trying to grow more but it will take time. Is there another way to fast cycle without plants (or maybe even without fish)?

Thanks!


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## Calmwaters

Fast way no, other way with out fish yes. You can read about the other ways in the section about cycleing.


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## small fry

Any recommendations? links? suggestions where to find information?

Thanks!


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## Calmwaters

Here you go:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/


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## small fry

Has anone ever done a fishless cycle with pure ammonia? How long does this method take (I couldn't find the answer on the link)? Secondly, where can I get the pure ammonia, is it hard to find? Is it expensive?

I was just curious about the method. It seemed relatively easy.

Thanks!


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## small fry

Actually, I think the shrimp cycleing option is cheaper and easier. I think I will try that.


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