# Need some fish disease help.



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Some of you, may remember a thread started by me a while back, about my diseased fish.
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/cory-sensitive-acriflavine-29543/

I have never had fish, sick this long, and not get well or die. Its been a few months. I started Maracyn and Marcyn-Two treatment on October 11th. I have put these fish through almost 3 weeks of this treatment and they are still not completely well. All the stringy white areas that looked like columnaris went away, but still have one with cloudy eyes and some open sores.
I am all out of meds, 3 weeks is longer than the recommended use. I am trying to decide if I should buy more meds tomorrow or discontinue treatment.

The first picture is the fish that started the spread of disease. At first, I just thought it was an infected scratch, till the other fish started developing what looked like columnaris. His sore area has not improved with the use of meds. (looks about the same)

The last picture, is of the rainbow, that was hit the hardest. He had lots of white stringy areas and missing scales on the top and belly side. He is almost completely well, just a small sore on the belly area now. Looks like it could heal up on its own.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Can you please post your tank stats? The more information we have about your tank and its situation the faster we can help you. Without current water params for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH there isn't much anyone can do for you... so please include those as well. 
If you need a list of questions there is a sticky that provides this for you. If I remember correctly it is the one titled "please read before posting" or something to that effect. If you can't find it let me know and I will search it out and post a direct link here for you.

In the mean time I am going to suggest stopping all medications and add some carbon to the filter to help draw out any meds that are remaining. I would also suggest a 25% - 30% water change. It is not safe for most meds to mix together, so this break in medication is prep for something new that should work for you.


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

1. Size of aquarium (# of gallons)
65 gallons

2. Is your aquarium setup freshwater or brackish water?
freshwater

3. How long the aquarium has been set up?
3 years

4. What fish and how many are in the aquarium (species are important to know)
down to 3 cory, 2 peacock eels, down to 3 female bettas (lost 2 of them to dropsy), 3 boesemani rainbows, 3 Parkinson's rainbows, 2 bolivian rams.

5. Are there live plants in the aquarium?
no

6. What temperature is the tank water currently?
76 deg, was kept at 78 deg, but turned down when suspected columnaris 

7. What make/model filter are you using?
Emperor 400

8. Are you using a CO2 unit?
no

9. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day?
no

10. When did you perform your last water exchange, and how much water was changed?
on Tuesday, 50%

11. How often do you perform water changes?
With healthy fish, my normal schedule on the rainbow tank, is 50% weekly.

12. How often and what foods do you feed your fish?
Twice a day. I could make this list a page long. They are fed a little of most everything, along with some homemade foods. They are not lacking in variety.

13. What type of lighting are you using and how long is it kept on?
two Aqua-Glo T8 bulbs. Due to my work schedule, light are on 12 hrs daily.

14. What specific concerns bring you here at this time?
Disease outbreak with the rainbows. Sores, one with cloudy eyes, white fuzzy areas in between scales and on mouths. (all the white fuzzy areas are gone at the moment)
Only one fish with cloudy eyes and two with sores, at this time.
One of the cory, also developed the fuzzy spots, but is fine now.

15. What are your water parameters? Test your pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
Ph 8, ammonia zero, nitrite zero, nitrate 30 (I have nitrates in my tap water)

16. What test kit are you using and is it liquid or test strips?
API liquid

17. When was the last time you bought a fish and how did they behave while in the pet store tank?
This tank has had no new fish for at least 4 months. The last added, where the bettas, that all went through a three week QT.


Some more info, on things I have already tried for treatment.....

They went through a couple weeks of daily 50% water changes (did not help), a couple weeks of Melafix and Primafix (did not help), almost two weeks of Maracyn & Maracyn-Two treatment (decided to remove snails and go with a cheaper med), started Acriflavine treatment for a week (killed 6 of my cory with it). Started doing 50% water changes daily, for two weeks, along with carbon, to remove the Acriflavine. Water was still green from the meds, so did a complete tear down, removed reverse flow UGF, washed the filter and gravel in water from the 210 gal (to save the cycle). As you can see in the picture, the water is still green, but the cycle held.
I went back to the Maracyn & Maracy-Two treatment on October 11th. Have used it everyday, since.
Will be doing a 50% water change today, and adding carbon to remove the meds.

Hope this is enough info, if not, ask away. I have had the rainbows for 1 1/2 years without problems. 
As resistant as this disease has been, I am beginning to fear TB. Any help would be appreciated.
Throughout, the fish act completely healthy, good appetite. Without looking at them, I would not know anything was wrong.


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Can't help you with your question but just letting you know that I'm crossing my fingers for you. Good luck with whatever is ailing your fish. 
Extremely stubborn strain of something huh??


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks Romad! With them still eating and acting healthy, I am still hoping for the best.
To euthanize, would be the easy way out, but I do not have it in me to euthanize a healthy acting fish.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I am wondering if you have a quarantine tank available? (Or an empty tank you could set up quickly with water from an existing tank and air stone)

The reason I'm asking is because your fish have a very severe bacterial infection, and as it has proven resistant to acriflavine the available options with those species of fish is going to be limited. None of the meds that should work would be safe to put in the tank with those eels.

At this point, if a quarantine tank can be set up, I would strongly suggest moving the infected fish to it and beginning treatment with Malachite green. Please be aware that this med may stain the silicone seals in the tank and anything else it touches, but then, so will acriflavine. In this quarantine tank I would also add aquarium salt, 1 tablespoon for every 5 gallons and some type of artificial decorations for hiding places to reduce stress. Follow the instruction on the bottle of malachite green and be very careful not to overdose. This is a pretty potent med.

If you can't find it locally I can help you to find it online, just let me know. There are 2 other medication options, but again I would only work with them in a quarantine tank and the other 2 are not as potent and may not be as effective... so I am prescribing the malachite green based on the resistance this bacterial strain has shown. Malachite green actually contains both of the other 2 meds along with another, in its ingredients. It is the combination of ingredients in the malachite green that should make it effective.

If you have any further questions please ask before making attempts blindly to alter the treatment. Also be sure there is no other medication in the water when you begin this treatment. I can be reached in PM most any hr and am more likely to find a pm faster than a post here, so if its important and can't wait, seek me out there please. I check my email many times in the course of every day/night but I usually only get here once/day.

Best of luck to you!


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks for your help!

I can remove the three sick rainbows into QT. No one sells the malachite green in my area, but I have seen it for sell online, so I will place an order tonight.
It seems, that I have read malachite green can also be used as a dip / bath treatment. Do you think the QT tank setup, would be better than a bath treatment?


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I think the full treatment is called for here. If this were fungal I would say the bath might be an effective way to get rid of the fungus because the stain would adhere to the fungus, thus blocking out light and destroying it. Because this is such a severe bacterial infection and it sounds as if you have effectively destroyed the fungus already, I am going to stick to my original prescription of the full treatment in QT.

Please understand there is never a guarantee that any treatment will work, but the malachite green is your best bet at this stage. Please keep a close eye on the fish once treatment begins just in case any of them has an adverse reaction to the medication. Because this med is quite harsh it can be stressful on a fish that is in a weakened state... and just like people or other animals, there is always the risk that any animal can react badly to a medication that is otherwise known as safe for that species. If you notice any bad reactions to the meds by any of the fish, please remove that fish from QT immediately and return it to the main tank, and let me know. If that should happen we can then research other options for that fish.

I am pretty confident that this should resolve your problem and I am not expecting you to have further issues, please keep me posted.


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks Bettababy!
One more question. I know, I do not want to mix meds, should I be concerned about placing the main tank water into the QT tank, with it still being green from the acriflavine? After a complete tear down and a few carbon changes, I would think whatever is making the water green, is not an active med?

I will be working on removing the Maracyn. Already did a 50% water change and added carbon today. Think I will change out another 50% tomorrow.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I would say easy on large water changes, as that will stress the fish. You don't want to change water params too drastically. As for water from the main tank, if you can get it into the QT tank and run a filter on it with carbon for a couple of days that should effectively remove any remaining medication... in case somehow something is still leeching meds into the main tank from somewhere. A 30% water change should be plenty at any one time.

Are you positive it is still the water that is colored or is it the glass that is stained? Acriflavine is well known for staining anything it comes into contact, and why when I suggest someone use it I always have them do so in a QT tank only. Try removing some of the tank water into a clear or white cup (preferrably disposable) to see if the staining is actually the water or the tank glass. If it is for sure the water, try changing the carbon and putting in some fresh carbon... and don't be afraid to change out carbon 2 - 3 times in the course of a week until all of the medication is removed.

With that many water changes having been done already, it is very possible the staining you are seeing now is the silicone and glass of the tank.


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

No, the green is in the water. I see it in the buckets of water, during water changes. 
I scrubbed the glass, when I did the tear down. Even now, when I change out the water, the glass looks clear, where the water has been removed.
I lost count of the number of times, I preformed water changes and changed out the carbon, to remove the acriflavine and to avoid the complete tear down. I almost cried, after the tear down and the water was still green.
The reason for treating the whole tank, at the time there was 6 infected fish. Too many to fit in my QT tank. Also feared that if I removed the sick, the disease would still spread on to the others. Now that it is only 3, I can manage to place them into QT.
Everything I have read, recommends 50% water changes for the rainbows. I have other tanks, where large water changes are not recommended, with the fish I have, and only change out 25% weekly.
I will do some more reading up, on Rainbow fish care.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Another option would be to put fresh carbon in the QT tank filter, then do a 50/50 split of tank water with fresh clean water. This should resolve your issue quickly without causing too much shock to the fish. If you can borrow some filter media and gravel from the existing tank, that will also help to seed the QT tank. I would hold off on moving the sick fish to the QT tank for at least a couple of days after setting up this way because moving sick fish to a cycling tank will likely only cause more harm, and with any ammonia or nitrite reading in the QT tank we cannot medicate until those are gone.


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks!
It will be a few days before I have the new medication, so I will setup the qt tank tomorrow, to prepare for their move.
Just in case, all meds are not removed from the main tank, I will go with the 50/50. Sounds a little safer.
I have some healthy tanks, that I can use to seed the cycle.
I have not read up on the new med yet, but I am guessing daily water changes will be needed. I will be sure to follow the directions on the bottle.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I don't like to give out instructions for some of the meds other than to follow the directions because depending on what company has made them, some meds are bottled in various different concentrations. The same applies with methylene blue. It will depend on where it is manufactured and what concentration they use, so their specific meds should follow their specific dosing instructions.
Keep me posted and let me know how it goes.


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I ordered the malachinte green, should I have ordered the methylene blue? Its probably not too late to change my order.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

No, I was just using methylene blue as an example of other medications that change in concentration according to manufacturer. Sorry I that confused you. Malachite green is what you want.


----------



## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

I am not trying to bring more confusion but posting as precautioany measure on top of what BB suggested/posted.
Although both malachite green and methylene blue can be effective agents in treatment/preventive of cerain fish dieases, please do research on what it is and its toxicity effects on Species of Fish before applying.
I have used both agents ,even potassium permanganate, in combating diseases successfull but very close attention should be given, especially with malachite Green, IMHO.

Maracyn and Maracyn II is effective antibiotics but there are other effective antibiotics avail to treat various types of fish disease. Try researching other derivatives of tetracycline such as OxyTC, a terramycin.(maracyn II, if memory serves, is one of TC derivatives)
Also avail are sulfa based antibiotics along with other types of aminoglycosides, etc. etc etc.

If not sure, do a research backward.
First look up all antibiotics avail to hobby and look for main ingredients.
Using nomenclature of antibioticsimain ingredients, you can research what each specific antibiotic is most effective against.
Once you identify (even if it is crude results) the possible pathogens, you can look up symptoms each pathogen produce/develop on fish.. 
You will most likely come up with several different possible pathogen sfor your symptoms (Since many pathogens may produce same/similar symptoms to our naked eyes) but by eliminating other unsubstantiated disease signs according to your Rainbow's symptom(s), you should be able to derive with better educated guesses than most..

This may take time to accomplish but sooner you start, sooner you will have better solutions to most diseases in this hobby. And more pronounced solutions since these solutions are based on facts produced by sutdies in Fish Pathology. 

Please be advised that I dont mean what our member suggests dont have any bases or misinformed. I dont mean that at all.
All I am suggesting is an ALTERNATIVE path to Fish Pathology via your own research w/o PhD degree in Fish Pathology. 
Yes, It is a work but definitely will open bigger horizon in successful fish keeping, not just as treatment but also as a preventive measure.

Hope all goes well!

BTW, Just dont get MG/MB on your hand/skin. Wear surgical gloves if possible.


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Thank for the post cerianthus!

Fish disease, confuses me like crazy! Some many different diseases, with the same symptoms!
What would your recommendation be for treatment? Something that will work in a ph of 8.
I have no way of diagnosing this disease, to many different things, going on at the same time. I just noticed tonight, that one of the rainbows, has a string hanging from his mouth again. That makes it 4 sick fish again. The one with cloudy eyes, never developed any ulcers or stringy areas. Maybe, more than one disease going on at the same time?
I have given up on the maracyn & Maracyn-Two as treatment. If it was going to work, I think the fish would be well already.


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Twistersmom said:


> No, the green is in the water. I see it in the buckets of water, during water changes.
> I scrubbed the glass, when I did the tear down. Even now, when I change out the water, the glass looks clear, where the water has been removed.
> I lost count of the number of times, I preformed water changes and changed out the carbon, to remove the acriflavine and to avoid the complete tear down. I almost cried, after the tear down and the water was still green.
> The reason for treating the whole tank, at the time there was 6 infected fish. Too many to fit in my QT tank. Also feared that if I removed the sick, the disease would still spread on to the others. Now that it is only 3, I can manage to place them into QT.
> ...


 Twistersmom,

I might suggest that the amount of carbon and the quality of same can have an effect on removing medications and or dyes from our aquariums. I too run the Emperor filters and have long ago stopped using the disposable Rite size E filters in favor of plain old filter floss. 
When I do need to use carbon, I would opt for a carbon such as KENT'S REEF carbon. I would place about a half cup to a cup in a nylon bag and place it in the filter compartment of the filter.
The amount ,and quality, of carbon offered in most filter cartridges is woefully inadequate in my opinion and some carbon seems to work better in my expierience. I do not know if you are using the carbon supplied in the cartridges that are recommended for the Emperor filters but thought I would offer you an option that you may or may not already be aware of.
Wish I could offer something useful with regards to the fish you are having trouble with but I believe one could do far worse than listening /following Bettababy's suggestions.I suspect that through her work ,she has much more expierience in dealing with fish related illnesses than many of us. I do hope your Rainbows get better.:|


----------



## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

Twistersmom said:


> Thank for the post cerianthus!
> 
> Fish disease, confuses me like crazy! Some many different diseases, with the same symptoms!
> What would your recommendation be for treatment? Something that will work in a ph of 8.
> ...


Fish diseases are not just confusing but less studied/studied compared to reasearches done on human medicine.

Most common fish disease are well documented and treated effectively though. 

*The real problem/difficulty is correctly identifying its cause thus hard to find accurate remedy/solutions.*

Dont know much about your fish history from the beginning thus hard to determine/recommend any suggestion for now.

Although I am sure you have no problem with ammonia (NH3), nitrite (NO2), Nitrate(NO3) or pH, but it wont hurt to check and document with date/time *(very helpful if readings/events/actions/prognosis are well documented in determining the possible cause, not to mention for future references)*

*Do have few questions:*
1. Any open sores?
2. Hazy/cloudy slime on the body? if so, Does hazy/cloudy slime comes off the fish occassionally or spreading/getting worse?
3. Any clamped/deteriorating fins, especially pectoral fins?
4. Last time you change the carbon
5. Any visible improvement after the last Mes? Was it combo of Maracyn/Maracyn II? If not, last med used?


Most antibiotic will breakdown with time/ high temp in the tank thus need several application needed to keep the optimal concentration of med, even for us (2 tab/pills per day for next few days and so on). 
So *active antibiotic* presence diminished with time. Should perform water changes after med as you have done since inactive/broken down antibiotic themselves are pollutants. Water changes and high quality carbon should do the trick.

If you can post latest pic and answers to questions above, I'll see if i can assist but no promise. It is hard enough to diagnose the problem with fish in front me, it is close to impossible to diagnose accurately with some diseases via descriptions but good pics will definitely help.

*I am suspecting combination of external primary parasitic infection with secondary bacterial infection.*

Dont forget to post the readings/events prior to this infection(s), that is if available.

it is very helpful what environment these fish were exposed to which may have caused this problem and also possibilty of introducing new fish that was carrier of certain pathogens?

Possibilities are endless but let's try if you wish!

Pardon for more questions rather than answers but I am trying!


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

cerianthus said:


> I am not trying to bring more confusion but posting as precautioany measure on top of what BB suggested/posted.
> Although both malachite green and methylene blue can be effective agents in treatment/preventive of cerain fish dieases, please do research on what it is and its toxicity effects on Species of Fish before applying.
> I have used both agents ,even potassium permanganate, in combating diseases successfull but very close attention should be given, especially with malachite Green, IMHO.
> 
> ...


There is specific reasoning behind my choice of malachite green to treat this problem vs some of the other meds that were listed here. For starters, Triple Sulfa is something I fall back on as a last resort simply because many people are highly allergic to it. Just being near it is enough to send some people to a hospital ER. I have seen first hand (my boss) the effects on someone with an allergy, and it is not pretty... not to mention painful and debilitating.

As for the Maracyn meds, while these are great meds they are mild in comparison to the malachite green. Some fish species respond better to certain medications than to others, and rainbows are one of those who responds much better and quicker to Malachite green than to Maracyn.

Another reason for my choice is because these fish have already been through some medication treatments, and this bacteria has proven resistant to them all. 

It is important that everyone be aware, when I prescribe meds it is not based on the claims made on packaging and labels. I base my decisions on the ingredients, the amount of effective ingredients in each med, the species of fish and how well they can handle a specific medication, and known responses to various meds for various illnesses. 

It is ok that many people find fish medicine very confusing and complicated. It is not an easy field to work in, learn, or understand. Fish medicine requires many yrs of intense study, many yrs of hands on experience, research, etc. No one person will ever know it all, but some of us have had the opportunity to learn much more than others. It is no different than someone taking their dog to a vet for something that isn't a simple common sense fix. A dog with a bacterial infection is not going to get better if the owner has to do the much needed research to first diagnose the problem and then find a safe effective treatment, thus the dog goes to a vet who has years of education, experience, and research to help get it right as quickly as possible to preserve the life of the dog. Fish medicine is no different other than the medications are much more readily available and there are fewer individuals out there who have the education, research, and experience to help. When it comes to fish medications there are just as many risks involved, but people rely on company packaging to tell them what they need to know about a given medication. That simply isn't safe. Most companies do not list the specific warnings on their labels, nor do they list the specific species a given med is safe for. 

When there are multiple species that need treatment for the same illness, finding 1 medication that will work effectively for both species and still be safe... can be quite a challenge. If given the chance to consider another medication for these fish with this situation, I would still be advising Malachite green over all others.

I hope that helps to explain my choices. Please know, I do not take other people's pets and their lives, or their pocket books lightly. It has taken me many yrs to learn what I know, and I still have to reference my research papers, text books, etc from time to time in order to find a safe and effective solution for someone. Also, I learn something new every day. This is a field where learning is endless. 

Doing this via interent is a challenge of its own because it does not allow me the opportunity to view/examine these animals in person, does not allow me to collect biopsy or scraping samples to put under a scope to properly identify a strain of fungus or bacteria. When we run across bacterial infections in fish, there is no way to be sure if it is gram positive or gram negative bacteria without the scope work. Not all antibiotics treat for both gram positive and gram negative bacterias, nor do they list on the labels which of them they treat. So not knowing which the fish is infected with leaves us with only first hand knowledge of a given ingredient and what it treats, and to find a safe combination that covers both as often as possible. The other alternative is to treat for one, hope the fish doesnt die if its the wrong one, which gives time to treat for the other. 

I could write a books worth of explanation here for you, but I dont think that is needed (nor do I have the time). I just felt the need to stress that I don't suggest any medication to anyone just by guessing or from some claim a company makes on their product. I bring with me my own education, research, experience, and that of my husband who is an aquatic biologist.


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I sure wish there where more "fish vets" available. I have spent a good $200 on meds already. Taking the fish to the vet, I could have got it right, the first time around.
The green should be on its way, but think I will start treatment on Friday or Saturday. My work takes me away from home, a good 12 hrs a day. I want to be home, to observe their behavior with the meds.

To answer some of your questions cerianthus, 
*Yes there are open sores. They are in the first pictures, and have not changed much.
*No hazy / cloudy slime, only some white stringy spots, that I thought looked like columnaris. It cleared up with the Maracyn & Maracyn-Two combo treatment. A few spots have reappeared, since discontinuing treatment.
*There was one morning, I woke up to see "fin rot" on one of the rainbows and a cory. It quickly went away with the M&M treatment.
*changed carbon out on Sunday, to remove the Maracyn and maracyn-Two.
*There was improvement with the couple of fish with "fin rot", all the columnaris looking areas went away,the one rainbow that lost many scales is almost completely healed. I saw no improvement in the rainbow with the ulcer (on the first picture), and the cloudy eyes remained through out the treatment.
*I have not had any readings for ammonia or nitrites throughout, and before they fell ill. No new fish. Nitrates are higher than I would like. About a year ago, I started getting nitrate readings from the tap. Some days 10 ppm, other days, close to 30. I try my best to keep nitrates under 40. Plants and eels, do not mix well. I have tried.

Thanks 1077! I use the filter floss same as you. I have media baskets for carbon, that came with the filter. I have filled them with new carbon a number of times. I am not in the habit of using carbon, so when I needed to remove some meds, I bought some Pro-Carb made by Penn-Plax. Should I upgrade? I can hear it pop and crack, when I rinse it. I will look into what you recommend, because I do want, what is best.
I will remove the floss from one side, and add even more carbon, could not hurt!

on a side note, Do you think this disease could have been brought on by keeping the rainbows in a ph of 8? I am thinking over time, this may have worn down their immune system?


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I have not kept rainbows other than the Threadfin variety but all published info suggests that your fish should feel quite comfortable in hard alkaline water.
In the past,when water conditions were at optimum levls ,yet I began expieriencing similar problems, I did sort of what Cerianthus suggested. I began looking at all possible variables from the end of the week, back to the beginning of the week, to try and determine if anything was or is, out of the norm. I am near anal about water quality so I can usually eliminate that so long as no detergents,hairsprays,deodorants, air feshners ,etc have been used near the tank or were possibly introduced by skin contact while feeding or cleaning the tank.
I also look to see if anyone else has access to the tank and could have possibly introduced something unwanted. When these possibilities are eliminated, I then nearly always look towards the one constant,which is food. If flake foods are over five or six months old ,I pitch them unless they are stored in tuppeware and kept cool. Flake food can quickly lose it's nutritional value and is best bought a small amount at a time rather than storing a large conainer on a shelf. I also look to see if any new foods were purchased and or offered recently in the way of frozen foods. I am not a fan of bloodworms in any form ,and considering that they are almost certainly not collected from pristine areas on a regular basis, it does not seem to me to be too much of a strech to consider the possible bad batch on occasion. Also possible that frozen foods may have thawed in transit and refrozen more than once. If foods ,for whatever reasons have lost their ability to provide nutrition to fishes then the fishes immune sytem may indeed begin to suffer. If food is spoiled, same possible results.
I am no expert,with regards to fish diseases but hope that your fish get better and that some of this may prove helpful if not now,, perhaps in the future. Good Luck


----------



## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks 1077. They eat some frozen foods, so your suggestions are a possibility.


----------

