# New condo, new aquarium!



## Pasfur

This has been an exciting month for me, so i thought i'd share what is going on. First, I am engaged, date set for April 26th. Second, I signed a contract yesterday to purchase a Condo. Its a nice 1st floor unit, with a garage and privacy fence enclosed back yard. The opportunities for my hobby addiction are very nice, with plans for a pond in the back yard and a reef tank in the dining room. I will also be upgrading my 37 gallon reef into a 58 gallon bow-front with sump.

So, the point of this thread is to discuss the reef tank which will be set up. I plan to continue this thread over the upcoming year with pictures of the progress, from start to finish. The tank will be homemade from glass, 10' x 24'' x 24''. This is roughly 150-160 gallons in size. I am very excited about the 10 feet in length, because it opens up a lot of possibilities with the fish selection. For the first time I will have the opportunity to properly house an Achillies Tang, which I believe is the most beautiful fish in the world. Although this will be a reef, I plan to have a lot of open water space, with an emphasis on the fish.

I AM SOOO EXCITED!!!! I have never had a tank with this much opportunity.

So, the question of how this is possible and affordable. My brother works in a glass shop and has building his own aquariums for many years. He has built many aquariums of this size with great success, so the cost will be < $100 for the tank, including a predrilled overflow, and sump.

I am completely open to design ideas. I have about 60 days to draw up the plans. I want your opinions on how to design the sump, where to place the overflow(s) and return(s). This should be an amazing fun time, so fire away with your suggestions!

And yes, my fiance is amazing to allow such an aquarium in the dining room!


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## Pasfur

Pasfur said:


> The tank will be homemade from glass, 10' x 24'' x 24''. This is roughly 150-160 gallons in size.


Oops. Small typo there. It is 10' long x 14'' wide x 24'' tall


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## dramaqueen

WOW! Congrats and good luck to you!


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## Cody

Congrats! 

I am no pro on plumbing and where to put overflows and returns, put I would probably do like one main overflow, with a few smaller ones here and there. And then have at least 4 returns. Do you know if you will be drilling the side or the bottom?

Also, 14" seems a bit thin. If you could, I would make it a bit wider for better aquascaping and being able to house larger fish.


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## aunt kymmie

Pasfur said:


> I AM SOOO EXCITED!!!! I have never had a tank with this much opportunity.
> 
> So, the question of how this is possible and affordable. My brother works in a glass shop and has building his own aquariums for many years. He has built many aquariums of this size with great success, so the cost will be < $100 for the tank, including a predrilled overflow, and sump.
> 
> I am completely open to design ideas. I have about 60 days to draw up the plans. I want your opinions on how to design the sump, where to place the overflow(s) and return(s). This should be an amazing fun time, so fire away with your suggestions!
> 
> And yes, my fiance is amazing to allow such an aquarium in the dining room!


Wow. Congrats on the condo and the engagement! It's no wonder this is a gal worth marrying...:-D
Really looking forward to watching the progress as you continue with this project. Exciting indeed!


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## onefish2fish

awesome deal for a tank that large.

i suggest overflows at either end of the tank, i would also include a closed loop just because of the length


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## Pasfur

Cody, the 14'' width is a precut size of the free tempered glass used to create the bottom of the tank. It will have to work.

The bottom piece of glass will be drilled.


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## Cody

You may want to check this thread out then. A 12 foot custom tank. I hope it will help some of the plumbing questions. Later on in the thread he shows all of the plumbing.
Actual Thread: Calvin415's 12 footer - Nano-Reef.com Forums
Some plumbing pics: Calvin415's 12 footer - Nano-Reef.com Forums


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## rugie

pasgu,r is it not true that tempered glass can NOT be drilled? good thing it is free, would be kind of expensive to learn that the hardway.


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## SKAustin

Mark, Just a suggestion here, but if you are having the tank made for you, why would you have the bottom drilled? Go with the coast to coast (calfo) overflow. 

Oh and Congrats on the engagement, condo, and upgrades!


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## onefish2fish

well i would drill it regardless for a closed loop, its going to be 10 feet long


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## fishman09

wow, that is going to be an amazing tanl, i am working on setting up a 100 or 75 gallon salt water tank, but it is going to take a while cause of the costs, it is crazy prices to get one set up


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## Pasfur

rugie said:


> pasgu,r is it not true that tempered glass can NOT be drilled? good thing it is free, would be kind of expensive to learn that the hardway.


I don't know. The actual construction is beyond my experience level. My brother has built this tank several times. I will have to ask him again. Maybe he suggested tempered glass for the front piece of glass to prevent bowing. Probably.

In any case, I do plan to drill a hole in the bottom for the sump. Austin - do you have any threads or articles on the Coast to Coast concept? I recall this discussion in the past and you were full of good information.


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## onefish2fish

are you not going to close loop it?

i would imagine you would have to unless you want a row of powerheads along the back wall


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## Pasfur

onefish2fish said:


> are you not going to close loop it?
> 
> i would imagine you would have to unless you want a row of powerheads along the back wall


I have not decided anything. This is why I am starting these conversations now! :-D

I want time to kick ideas around and share your experiences. I have never had a project like this at home. I have maintained systems that were already set up, but the designing and implementation of such a system at home, starting from scratch, is an entire different experience.

To make it more crazy, I am not mechanically inclined. I have a wealth of knowledge of how I want things to work after they are created, but the process of cutting glass, building the tank, building the stand and canopy, all of these things are beyond my skill level. I will have to communicate to other people in the process as these things are completed.

It is my lack of mechanical experience that has probably turned me into a low-technology fishkeeper. I like to keep things simple. Unfortunately, i think a sump system is necessary on a tank this size to simplify the upkeep. So, please treat me like a novice... explain the benefits of a closed loop system as opposed to a Coast to Coast. 

Lets talk this out. I need all of your input and help! 

Cody Cody Cody.... sump designs please!


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## Pasfur

Cody said:


> You may want to check this thread out then. A 12 foot custom tank. I hope it will help some of the plumbing questions. Later on in the thread he shows all of the plumbing.
> Actual Thread: Calvin415's 12 footer - Nano-Reef.com Forums
> Some plumbing pics: Calvin415's 12 footer - Nano-Reef.com Forums


Thanks Cody. This helps a ton.


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## onefish2fish

well an overflow is an overflow, which takes your water to the sump. theres drilled internal overflows and theres HOB overflows that use a siphon to take the water down to the sump. there is drawbacks of both so keep options open.

a close loop basically is a bunch of holes drilled in the tank, hooked up with PVC, hooked to a pump. ( self explanitory; a closed loop ) this acts as your powerheads and creates your flow. you may need an additional powerhead or 2 for dead spots but i think a closed loop in such a long tank is just about mandatory.


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## Pasfur

No doubt a closed loop. It is an absolute must for a tank this length, i would agree. In fact, the thread Cody sent me is a closed loop, which I have already discussed with my brother. 

I would prefer to drill the return holes in the back of the aquarium, rather than in the bottom. Is there any reason this is not going to work?

On the overflow, it will be an internal.

Also, going back to the bottom piece of glass. It WILL BE tempered glass. The glass is drilled first and then tempered. This is the advantage of having a brother you works in the glass industry. The added strength of the tempered bottom piece of glass will be nice piece of mind.

Does anyone have suggestions on the return sump pump? Brand and model?


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## Pasfur

So, last night my fiance and i are looking at pictures of large reef displays. We come across this tank:
Tank of the Month - December 2003 - Reefkeeping Online Magazine

My fiance says, matter of fact, "why don't we just do that?" Like its no big deal.

So, as soon as possible I will be taking measurements in my new condo to see if we can use this "L" shape for my new reef. I picture it being 4' x 8', with 14'' width and 22'' height.


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## onefish2fish

lol yea why dont you just do that?


do you have any idea what you want to stock?
better yet do you have any idea what its going to cost to stock?


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## Mike

This is so exciting, Mark! Your engagement, too, of course. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of the tank coming together!


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## Pasfur

onefish2fish said:


> do you have any idea what you want to stock?
> better yet do you have any idea what its going to cost to stock?


I'm not overly concerned about the cost of stocking the tank, because I am a huge believer in quarantine and patience. So the livestock will be spread over the next year or more. 

I plan on a reef, with a lot of open swimming space. There are a few key fish I want, including an Achillies Tang and a Copperband Butterfly. The Achillies will be a huge challenge, and i'm not 100% certain I will buy this fish. I may settle for a Zebrasoma species instead, or perhaps a Chevron. 

I do not plan on having large fish in this tank, with the exception of the Tang. I want to take my exisiting setup, and grow it in size. I want a trio of Centropyge angels, perhaps adding a Lemon Peel and Flame to go along with my Coral Beauty. 

I think the finishing touch will be a nice group of Anthias. I want 6 to 8. In my opinion, there is nothing like a group of Anthias swimming together in a reef.

The coral selection will be large part growth, as my exisiting tank is growing at such a ridiculous rate. I will add a few species that I do not currently own, but I plan on sticking with softies.


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## onefish2fish

sounds awesome.

i cant agree more. copperbands are sweet and so are the anthias
i cant wait for this!


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## Kellsindell

Congrats on the upcoming upgrade. Just remember that though anthias are beautiful and they do Shoel nicely most of the time, they are needy when it comes to eating and require 2-3 time feedings per day. That's a lot of nutrients to add to your tank. 

Also, i always hold reserves on Angels. They are not nessisarily reef safe, but they are... I hope you get this worked out before you start putting really nice SPS, LPS or softies into the tank, Other then that should be good.


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## wake49

Mark, 
I just bought an Eheim 3000 compact+ (plus) pump for my 46 gallon. My LFS guy recommended this over a few different brands, and it turned out to be significantly less expensive than some other options. 

My pump maxes out at 792 gph (which is where I have it set right now); Eheim also makes a 5000 compact+ with a flow rate of 660-1321 gph. They are adjustable on the unit, no need to install an extra valve. The other benefit of these Eheim compact+ is they run on a lower amount of watts per hour, reducing electricity consumption. 

I understand for a tank this size that you will probably need two or three of the bigger pumps, but I thought maybe this would help.

I attached a link: http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte/indexbc94.html?key=liniendetail_28394_ehen


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## Pasfur

Wake - THANK YOU! I will look into these.

Kell - great advice, and worth caution for the reader. Personally, its a chance i'm willing to take, but the hobbyist needs to be aware of the risk of Centropyge angels. 

On the Anthias, i have always been a believer in multiple feedings per day. I feed 4 to 5 times daily, small feedings. The use of an automatic feeder will be a plus for these fish.


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## Kellsindell

I think it's worth the risk too. I love the way the Beauty looks... I just love my SPS more. :-D


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## Pasfur

So i've really been concerned with the 14'' maximum width that my brother can build, and started to consider purchasing an aquarium with more width. I think it will be worth the expense.

So, I went back to the condo today to take some measurements, and I've decided to go back to my original placement. So, the aquarium will just be a normal aquarium, rather than the "L" shape.

I can go 8' in length with 18'' width, or I can go 6' in length with 24'' width. I think I want more width, which should give me a lot of long term flexibility with the tank aquascapping. So, i'm looking at the 180 gallon tank with dimensions 6' x 24'' x 25''.

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with these guys:
Glasscages.com - Glass Aquariums

The price looks nice and local delivery is only $95 to my area.


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## Cody

Found these:
glasscages.com - Nano-Reef.com Forums *Be sure to read the other replies
Glasscages.com - Nano-Reef.com Forums
Glasscages.com - NEGATIVE - Nano-Reef.com Forums

Sounds like the smaller ones are good transactions, but the larger ones are very risky. Sounds like bad contact as well.


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## Pasfur

Well then. It sounds like I will be spending another $100 - $200 to get the same tank from my LFS. I suppose I could negotiate free delivery...


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## Kellsindell

Hmm... that sounds like an idea, but I've seen many tanks and the aquascaping of large tanks. I've always found Steve Wiess to have an amazing tank because of the depth of his tank www.oregonreef.com It's breath taking. My next tank regaurdless of the gallons will have to be deep. It adds a new perspective to the hobby rather then a 2 demention feel.

His tank was 8'x8'x24" i believe and it's an 850g tank. I'm not saying go this big, but with it being shorter you won't need as strong of lights and you will get the depth feel, which is awesome!


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## onefish2fish

now thats awesome.
i think even a 4x4' cube would be sick!


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## wake49

Mark, 

Is your condo a flat or multi-level? More importantly, what floor is the tank going to be on?

I ask because the 180 gallon tank is going to be HEAVY! I calulate just 180 gallons of water to be about 1500 lbs. Rock and sand are more dense, adding to that weight, and a sump that is say 55 gallons would also add another 400+ lbs...

If you are putting this tank on the second floor, I would consider reinforcing the floor. I would probably install a lally column directly under the tank with a maybe an eight foot girder to carry the extra weight of the tank. 

Live load is the load that is going to change, such as me walking across the floor. Dead load refers to the more permanent loads through the structure. Most residential floors are rated to carry 40 lbs of live load, and 10 lbs of dead load per square foot. This tank is going to be about 12 square feet, carrying about 166 lbs/sq ft. This could cause major sagging in the floor, and probably damage to the floor joists. 

If you are on the first floor, it is possible the condo could have been built on a slab. Concrete, which is rated for 4000 lbs/sq inch, will have no problem carrying this load. But if you are on the first floor and there is a basement or garage underneath you, then you have the same problem I mentioned before. 

If you give me the schematics (even a rough drawing), I can have it figured what you will need to carry the load of this tank.

Let me know.


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## onefish2fish

your post makes perfect sense but i have heard that refridgerators weigh more per square inch then a tank does. i think if it is against a wall and the floor below it has a wall there you'll be fine. re-inforcing wouldnt hurt though ofcourse


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## mags2313

Yeah, things do sound really exciting for you right now! Have fun! My bf just completed his 55g, he spent about a week drawing up the plans, etc. Looks amazing, especially beside my 32g that I did NOT draw plans for, lol.
Good luck!


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## wake49

onefish,

A refrigerator that is 36" x 35-1/4" x 69-3/4" (which is about a 26 cubic ft capacity) weighs app 328 lbs. That is empty. For argument's sake let's say that there is 150lbs of food (which is a lot of food) in it. That's app 478 lbs. That gives us about 53 lbs/sq ft of Force on the floor. 

This tank is large. If the tank is full of only water, with no sump, then you are looking at 3/4 of a ton. A 6' by 36" whirlpool tub needs reinforcement, and they hold 78 gallons. Filled with water they weigh over 1000 lbs! That's only 58 lbs/sq ft of downward force, and they recommend reinforcement.

I would say that, yes, if there is a load bearing wall underneath the tank, then that will probably suffice. As long as that load bearing wall is supported underneath by columns, or on the foundation itself, then you should be safe.

Just email me a loose drawing of what you are trying to do, and I will run it. Better safe than sorry.


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## Pasfur

Great advice Bryce. My condo is a first floor unit, nothing underneath. This was a mandatory requirement for me!

Thanks to OF2F for suggesting this site: Dry Rock - Fiji. I will probably place a nice order of Fiji Dry rock for my base rock.


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## onefish2fish

no problem i hear its very pourus rock the only downfall is that ive heard it taking forever to get to you, well some say it comes fast and others takes awhile. other then that i hear its awesome stuff


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## Pasfur

21 days to closing... 
25 days to move...
Plan to have aquarium delivered on day 26. 180 gallon tank.

At that time i will be moving this tread to the pictures and videos section, where it is probably more appropriate.

I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!


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## Cody

Me too.


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## Kellsindell

Ditto!


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## onefish2fish

cant wait for yours, or mine!


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## Pasfur

Ok, so I ordered 75 pounds of Fiji Premium Dry Rock today from Dry Rock - Fiji. 

I thought i'd start with 75 pounds to see how I like it. $215 including shipping, seems like a great deal.


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## Pasfur

This is amazing. I received email confirmation today that my live rock order from Marco Rocks has been shipped. 
I will post some pics when it gets here.


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## onefish2fish

i cant wait! i may just be more excited then you, its some good stuff!


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## Pasfur

Wow. Only 3 days later and I have my rock. It is incredible!!! Let me tell you, if you want a great deal on rock, then this is an awesome value. It is very light weight (density), very porous, and looks great. The size of the pieces is perfect for reef building.

I will post pictures when i start my 180 thread after delivery next Wednesday. YES!!!!

Here is the site from which I ordered the rock:

Dry Rock - Fiji

Thanks OF2F for this recommendation!!!!!


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## onefish2fish

i need pictures now! yes, piktars! show me piktars! 

lol, im happy that your happy. its coming close to the delivery deadline. i bet your jumping out of your skin with anticipation.


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## Pasfur

onefish2fish said:


> i need pictures now! yes, piktars! show me piktars!
> 
> lol, im happy that your happy. its coming close to the delivery deadline. i bet your jumping out of your skin with anticipation.


Sorry, I close on the Condo on Monday. The painters arrive Monday night. We move all the oddball stuff Tuesday and Wednesday, including my upgrade to the 58 bowfront. Thursday the movers arrive. It is a crazy busy week. After Monday, I probably won't even have my computer hooked up again until Thursday when the cable people come. 

MAYBE I can get a few pics posted this weekend between packing boxes. But I have a big poker game this afternoon, so i'll be busy. Hopefully I can cash in, make a grand or so, and order the light for my 180.


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## onefish2fish

i understand the crazyness. i was only joking so theres no rush. take your time and do things right :wink:


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## Pasfur

Take my time? I'll be lucky to have fish in that 180 before Labor Day.-)


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## Pasfur

Pasfur said:


> But I have a big poker game this afternoon, so i'll be busy. Hopefully I can cash in, make a grand or so, and order the light for my 180.


That went better than expected. After 7 hours of play, we split the spot with 4 players. I had the most chips, so I cashed out for 1st. Time to order my protein skimmer for the 180. ;-) I've decided on the ASM G-3. I found a great price on AquaCave: ASM G-3 Protein Skimmer* - AquaCave. 

The ASM G-3:








I plan to order the mag1800 pump today also. The best price i've found the mag1800 is from Mag-Drive Water Pumps | Water Pumps | Water Pumps & Power Heads | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com. 

Wow! Last night really helps with this project. I expected to wait a month or so before ordering this equipment.


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## Pasfur

I decided to order my heater as well. Shipping was free on orders over $150, so i figured i'd take advantage of it. I choose the Finnex 800w Deluxe Titanium Heating Tube with the HC800U Electronic Temperature Controller. Here is the pic:








This order should arrive sometime this week, which will be perfect timing. Next weekend I should be able to start on the 180 sump.


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## dramaqueen

Sounds like everything is going well for you. Best of luck with everything.


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## aunt kymmie

Luck? Pasfur? I guy like this does not leave anything to chance on luck.  Research & experience are his lucky cards. Glad you won at poker as we'd hate to wait a month before you were able to order this equipment. Maybe another scheduled poker game is in order?


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## dramaqueen

He must be an experienced poker player as well as an experienced fishkeeper.


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## onefish2fish

i prob. would have went with two 300watt jager heaters. 
with all the pumps running, lights, and so forth that prob. will be more then enough.


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## Pasfur

onefish2fish said:


> i prob. would have went with two 300watt jager heaters.
> with all the pumps running, lights, and so forth that prob. will be more then enough.


Yeah, i think a single 500 watt would have been sufficient. But it was only $10 more for the 800 watt, so I went with the manufacturer recommendation. 

Normally I would have used 2 x 300 watt heaters, if they were your standard Visa Therm, etc. But with the reputation the Finnex Deluxe Titanium has, I felt the risk was low. Some of the less expensive heaters are prone to stick, which is why I often recommend two smaller watts.


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## onefish2fish

i can agree, but as i stated* I* would have gone with jagers. i just personally like them out of all the heaters. ive heard the finnex were good, just never used one myself


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## Pasfur

ONE MORE DAY!!!!

The 180 is being delivered tomorrow night. YES!!! I also checked the delivery schedule on my skimmer, etc. Everything should arrive tomorrow. Perfect timing!

I will be getting the 58 bowfront set up sometime this week as well. I will start new threads on both, under the pictures and video area.


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## onefish2fish

i hope your taking the day off from work. :wink:

i expect to see an entire set up by 9pm


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## Pasfur

Ok folks, we've had the first setback. The 180 did not arrive at the LFS yesterday as scheduled. It is now planned to arrive on Thursday. Delivery on Friday at 8:30 pm. 

With an 8:30 pm delivery, i'm not sure I can have the tank set up and completely stocked with fish and corals and with nice coraline algae growth by 9pm. I will try.


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## onefish2fish

man, sorry to hear. atleast there now is more time to get other move related things done


looking foward to seeing a fully stocked tank at 9:15pm. :wink:


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## Pasfur

So, today my fiance says to me....
"maybe you should paint the stand black."

Black.
Black she says.
I could have just ORDERED the stand black. {sigh}

It is the end of a long day, but i did get a few things accomplished. All of my equipment arrived as scheduled. I installed the GFI outlets for the 180 and cleaned up the 58 stand. The 58 aquarium needs a lot of cleanup and new bulkheads, etc. Hopefully the 58 will be completely set up and the 180 stand will be painted by the end of this weekend. 

On a side note, the vivarium Turtle tank is completely broken down, with the Turtle and fish living in temporary quarters. I was using a 20 long for the vivarium, but I am switching to a standard 20 gallon when I set this back up. For those who are interested, i will create a short picture bio on this tank as well.


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## Pasfur

Well folks, life never fails to amaze me. I had a delivery scheduled at 8:30pm. I called this morning and confirmed. I left directions, my cell phone, and my fiance' cell phone number. At this moment it is 10:02pm and the guy has not showed up or called.

How does this happen? In this economy, should a business not bend over backwards for every last dollar and sale? What happened to customer service and courtesy?

More to come on this. Needless to say, I will be waiting at the LFS tomorrow morning when they unlock the doors.


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## jesterns2

Go get`em!!  That just isn`t right and you are correct in this economy they should be kissing you`r you know what! You should get a discount LOL


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## aunt kymmie

Yes, I'd be interested in the vivarium turtle tank pictures/ bio. 
I'm surprized at the "dropping of the ball" on your delivery. They have failed to realize you are one of their best customers. They will find out tomorrow. Keep us posted!


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## onefish2fish

did you put a down payment? if not, tell them you are no longer interested, lol. 
then go to another source.


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## Pasfur

If this shop did not have such an awesome reputation, I would be insane mad. I'm frustrated, but I am willing to bet that there is a simple explanation. The problem is communication... and there is no excuse for not properly communicating to your customer. But I am confident that the guy was not intentionally being a jerk.


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## Pasfur

and you would be amazed at the quality of their livestock...


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## Pasfur

This thread has officially ended. I started the 180 build thread today. You can find it here:
http://www.fishforum.com/saltwater-fish-pictures-videos/pasfurs-180-reef-build-21979/


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