# Helping a Beginner...



## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

So I have read around the forums, and I NEED some help. I will list everything I have done so far and what I plan on doing soon. Please tell me if I am doing this right, or just harming my aquarium.

Saturday, May 10th - I bought a 20 g aquarium kit from Petco. It came with a 20 g aquarium, 15 watt bulb, Whisper 20 Filter, 100 watt heater, fish net, starter size water conditioner, and starter size fish flakes. I added 20 lbs. of white gravel, then tap water. I added the water conditioner, and left it on. 










Monday, May 12th - I returned to Petco and bought a gravel vacuum, master ALI liquid water tester, thermometer, extra water conditioner. My tap water from the faucet read 7.4 pH and my tank read 7.2 pH. The tank is 81 degrees F, so I added 2 bamboo plants and a mystery plant.(What is the plant on the left?) My water seems a bit cloudy.

What I plan to do: Tomorrow - I am going to test the tank for pH, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite.

Wednesday - I am going to my LFS or Petco to buy 3 danios (Zebra Danios if possible). I will buy some rock/driftwood/live plants for the fish.










So, what am I doing wrong? When should I add fish? What are the best fish to go with danios? What are some tall and some carpet like/short plants? What bottom/algae eaters should I get?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Almost regardless as to what sort of fish you put in there, you're going to want some sort of structures present in the tank. They can provide useful ways to break up lines of sight to help fish establish territores, they can provide caves and whatnot for your fish to hide in or dart through, and they simply look good. There are lots of resin and ceramic decorations available, but I prefer the natural look of driftwood and local rocks. The rocks can sometimes be a pain in the butt because there are certain types of rocks that are harmful to your fish, but any type of rock at least needs to be washed thoroughly (without soap!) and given a bath in very hot water (don't boil your rocks, though!) You can buy some aquarium sealant and glue rocks together to make DIY caves and other structures. 

Some people have problems with using bamboo in aquaria, but I've never even tried it myself so I can't comment on it.

I wouldn't recommend adding any algae eaters until you have algae for them to eat. Sure, you could add one without any algae growth, but it's likely it'd get so used to eating the food you'd have to give it that it might not prove so useful at actually eating algae once it does start growing. Good algae eaters for a 20g include Otos, many shrimp species, and snails. There are some smaller species of pleco such as clowns and bristlenose plecos that could be squeezed into a 20g. 

The danios are a good choice for cycling your tank if you plan on cycling with fish. Three is a good number to cycle with, but if you plan on keeping them, I would also plan on adding at least two more as they're a schooling fish. Also, zebras will school with similar danios such as leopards and blue danios, as well as the long-finned varieties of all three variants.

Danios are generally great community fish so there are tons of options for fish that would go well with them. The only fish that don't really go well with danios are fish large enough to eat them and slower fish that might be annoyed by the danios. Some people say danios can be nippy towards fish with longer flowing fins, but I've never seen this myself.

One of the better bottom-dwelling species to add to your cleanup crew would be any of the cories. In a 20g you could fit a sufficient herd of just about any cory species and a larger herd of some of the pygmy species.

I don't really see any glaring problems with your setup so far; just make sure you stay on top of water changes and testing until the aquarium is completely cycled. The only small problem you might have is that your plants will be nitrate sinks in a cycling tank, meaning you won't get the nitrate readings toward the end of your cycle showing that the cycle is complete if you've got the plants there.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Thank you for the sppedy response batman. 

How often should I do my water changes during and after my cycle? How much percent and how often?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Different sources vary on this subject. A sticky on this forum suggests doing a 50% water change during the cycle any time the ammonia rises above 0.5 ppm, the nitrites rise above 1 ppm, or the nitrates rise above 15 ppm. You can do this, or you can just do a 20% water change every couple of days. Zebra danios are hardy enough to survive both slightly escalated ammonia/nitrite levels and frequent water changes, and making a routine of the water changes is an easier way to stay on top of it. However, during the cycle you should do routine testing of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates to monitor their levels. Emergency water changes can be done if any of the levels spike dangerously high.

The amount of water changing to do after the tank is cycled really depends on the stock. For most community setups, as long as you're not way overstocked, a 20-25% change every week is usually best. Messier fish and carnivores often demand more water changed out per week. Small tanks (below ten gallons) require very frequent water changes.


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## Jasey (Dec 5, 2007)

Is the gravel Petco brand gravel? If so, I highly recommend taking it out and changing it with a different brand. I used black Petco gravel in my 20 gallon, and the paint started coming off and it slowly killed all of my fish. Otherwise it looks like you are doing good in my opinion. Watch the water levels closely when you add the fish and keep a record of them. You don't want to have any fatal ammonia or nitrite spikes if you can help it.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Jasey, I am using Petco brand gravel. Although, my friend has had a 30 g for about 6 months now, and he uses the same gravel I have now, but he hasn't had any problems. How long did it take for the paint to wear off?

I just did a nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia test. Nitrite and nitrate were 0 ppm and ammonia was .25 ppm. What do these readings mean and when should I expect my cycle to start?


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## It'sJames (Nov 15, 2007)

Cycling starts soon after adding an ammonia source (fish, or pure ammonia). It usually takes 4-6 weeks to finish. Have you already added your danios?

The bamboo may rott in your tank. I haven't kept it, because I've been told that it often does. I think the leaves are supposed to be kept out of the water - so it needs a shallow tank. Just keep an eye on it, in case it goes bad in your tank.

Sounds like you're doing good so far! What kind of fish do you plan to keep?


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

One other thing you're going to want to do before adding fish is to read up on how to buy a healthy fish, and find a good fish store in your area. Every Petco I've ever been to has had many sick fish, and will ignorantly sell these fish to people. While it is possible to buy fish from a place like Petco, you're going to want to feel very comfortable in inspecting fish in every aspect to confirm their health. Not that another fish store doesn't have sick fish as well, but a reputable fish store with knowledgeable employees will not sell you any fish from an infected tank.

A great way to find a good fish store is to look up the forums for a local aquarium society. That's how I found the LFS that I frequent, and I absolutely love it. They've also never sold me a sick fish.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

I will keep an eye on the bamboo, James. Thank You  

I plan on keeping Zebra Danios, Neon Tetras(or other types of tetras), some kind of platies, and a algae eating shrimp or snail later on. I also want some anacharis and a tall plant, as well. I will only add the 3 danios at first, then add some more fish each week.

There is a great LFS that seems very professional. I went there to get a tank, but they had no full kits. I plan on buying the fish there because the fish at Petco and PetSmart seemed lethargic. The LFS employess sounded like they knew what they were talking about, and had a large variety of things.


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Ooh, I just noticed you're in MA, as am I. What was the name of the store? I always go to Skipton's in Boston.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Okie, it is Lovely Pets in Quincy, MA. Here is the website:

http://www.lovelypets.com/

Update - Today, the water still seems a little milky/cloudy. Getting the danios tomorrow!


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

You might want to do a small water change before putting them in, generally it's a better idea to put them in there before the cycle starts so that they have time to adjust to the ammonia present. Once you have them in there it's not a good idea to add any more fish until the cycle is finished since they have not had any time to adjust to the toxicity of the tank and you're likely to end up with floaters. Just serves as a good time to work on your patience


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

I will do it right before I go to the LFS. What percent change should I do? Also, I should tap condition the water in a bowl before I add it in the tank, right?

(Sorry for all the Q's, I just don't want to harm innocent little fishies)[/list]


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## Jasey (Dec 5, 2007)

It took only a month for my paint to wear off. My tank was cycled and the parameters were normal. Just keep an eye on the gravel up close for any fading.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

Depends on where your ammonia levels are. If it's above .25 probably at least 30%, maybe 50% if it's really high. And spend a little extra time acclimating them. Also, tap water almost always must be dechlorinated and conditioned before using it in the tank (though you do have a small amount of time after adding the water to add the conditioner but unless you have a Python you may as well add it to the bucket).


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

YES!!!! I just got back from my LFS! I got 3 Serpae Tetras. I love them! They look so cool. What are some good names? I like more "tropicalish" names. Also, I got a huge driftwood and 3 little ones. They are boiling on the stove right now. How long should I keep them on? I also got a Lutea, which does good in low light conditions. The 3 fish seemed pretty slow at first, but as soon as I added the food, they bolted to the top. They like my new Lutea plant the most so far. Pics soon!!!!


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Sorry about the double post, but you can only edit after 30 minutes. :x 

Here is the full tank shot, crypt in back left, Lupea in front left, and bamboos on right









Here are the 3 Serpae Tetras resting after a meal in the middle of the tank










Only the little driftwood(4 inch long, 1/2 inch wide) is in there now because it sank the fastest in the boiling water


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

After you get the driftwood in, you should see if there is any room for other decor like caves and stuff so they can hide. If you eventually get shrimp they will appreciate it very much.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Still, the only driftwood that sank is the smaller one. The next smallest one should be done in about 1/2 an hour. The 30$ large driftwood I got is great. It has a little cave on top and a a large base. I was amazed to find it. That won't be done till tomorrow afternoon, though.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Finally, the driftwood is done! So far, my Serpaes like the large cave thing in the middle of the wood, but I couldn't get a pic of them swimming through it. This is the final product, but I might add some more plants soon. Just a quick question, if I set up my tank last Saturday, bought 3 plants Monday, bought 3 fish and 1 plant yesterday, is there any beneficial bacteria on the gravel yet? Because I wanted to change it to a sand or coral sand or a more natural colored gravel. Any help?

Well, anyway, here are the pics! This is the full tank shot:









Here is the biggest driftwood:









And here is one fish behind the driftwood:









Still haven't thought of any names. Help appreciated 8)


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

At this point, you very likely do have beneficial bacteria growing in your gravel and it could prolong your cycle to change the gravel.

On the other hand, it could be much worse to do a major overhaul and change all of your substrate once the tank is fully established and full of fish. Doing so will absolutely cloud up your water with all sorts of nasty junk (no matter how thorough your weekly gravel vacs are) and would probably put your tank through a mini cycle.

So, if you really want to change the gravel, I'd do it now. Personally, I like the natural look better than some of the brighter colored stuff, anyway.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

When should I expect the cycle to start? What will be the first sign of the cycle? Sorry for all the questions


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## Jasey (Dec 5, 2007)

The cycle should start in a few days if it hasn't already. You know it has started when you have a presence of ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 0 nitrate. I think the driftwood looks excellent in the tank. I have a word of caution about sand though, based on personal experience. I used sand as the substrate in my 55 gallon, with pea gravel underneath as a base for my plants. I thought then the plants would be fine. I was wrong. I was unable to keep the plants healthy with a sand substrate, because they could not form an adequate root structure. I wouldn't recommend sand if you plan on keeping healthy, live plants.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

The cycle itself started once you had ammonia in the tank.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Jasey, you are right about the sand. I will just pick up some natural colored gravel soon, because I can't stand this white and blue gravel.

Monday, my readings were:
pH-7.3
Ammonia-0 ppm
Nitrite-0ppm
Nitrate-0ppm

Today, they were:
pH-7.2
Ammonia-.25 ppm
Nitrite-0ppm
Nitrate-0ppm

Does this mean my cycle has started? I sure hope so. *crosses fingers*[/list]


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, that's a starting cycle. Since you've got the fish in the tank, I would do water changes every time either the ammonia or nitrite goes above 0.25 ppm. Serpaes are fairly hardy, but ammonia and nitrite are both toxic to your fish so you don't want them swimming in it if they don't have to.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

So in about 4-6 weeks when my cycle is over, what other community fish could live with a school of 8 Serpae Tetras? Also, what are some good botton feeders?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Garrity828 said:


> So in about 4-6 weeks when my cycle is over, what other community fish could live with a school of 8 Serpae Tetras? Also, what are some good botton feeders?


Serpaes are vicious fin nippers thus they will limit your stocking options. Try bristlenose pleco, corydoras or hara hara. As for other tankmates, you could mix them with zebra danios or _Rasbora boraptensis_.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Corydoras are definitely one of the better bottom feeders. They like to school together along the bottom, so groups are a must. They prefer groups of at least 6, but since you'll already have the 8 serpae tetras, I would recommend going with only 6 pygmy cories and a smaller number, maybe 4 or so, standard-sized cories. Eight serpaes and 6 pygmy cories would be near the top of your stocking limit. You might be able to add something like a single smaller gourami, such as a honey or dwarf gourami. Any schooling fish is going to require large enough groups at that point that you'd really be pushing your stocking limits, if you decide to go with the serpaes and cories.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

iamntbatman said:


> You might be able to add something like a single smaller gourami, such as a honey or dwarf gourami.


No, you can't. As I said, serpaes are vicious fin nippers therefore any long-finned species is likely to meet its demise as soon as possible.


> Any schooling fish is going to require large enough groups at that point that you'd really be pushing your stocking limits, if you decide to go with the serpaes and cories.


It's not a question of limiting the stocks where bioload is concerned but a question of compatibility. Tetras don't excrete the amount of wastes as catfishes do and anyway pygmy cories are far too small to make the water conditions deteriorate dangerously.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Well, here it is. I'm done adding things for now. Just kidding! I'm playing Family Feud on GSN.com for extra aquarium money. LOL. I was hoping to get some low light plants from http://www.aquariumplants.com . Does anybody know if that is a reliable site? Anyway, here is my tank after I added 4 river rocks and 2 slate rocks from my backyard.

Full tank:









Big driftwood:









Left side:









Right side:









Here are todays, May 18ths, readings:
pH - 6.5
Ammonia - .50ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm

Why did the pH go down by .7 over 4 days? Is this an ammonia spike? If not, how high is the ammonia going to get to be considered a spike? What comes after the ammonia spike in the cycle?


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## Jasey (Dec 5, 2007)

The tank looks good. Did you rinse the rocks well, or pour hot water over them before putting them in the tank?

Yes, this is an ammonia spike. You need to do a 25-50% water change ASAP for the health of your fish. Right now it is toxic.

Also, nitrite comes after ammonia. Nitrate is last. I'm not sure what could be the cause of your pH change.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

I'd say the driftwood but that's a pretty big drop.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I would agree with Flashygrrl . Driftwood is a natural way to lower the PH value but that is a pretty big drop. Are you using any products to lower the PH? sometimes it is best to wait an hour after a water change to test PH it can in my view fluctuate a bit. You may also wish to consider root tab fertilizers for crypt plant or plants. You place them in the gravel near the roots of plants to help them recieve needed nutrients. Once your tank has matured ,you may or may not need them then.Be patient and dont overfeed and soon you will be able to SLOWLY stock your tank with fish you have been researching to insure they all get along and can thrive in your tank. good Luck!


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## It'sJames (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm not positive about this, but I think some rocks have an effect on the ph. Driftwood lowers it a bit, but usually not by that much. Maybe test the rocks by putting them in a dish of ph tested water for a day or two and then test the ph again. I think I've read that certain rocks can have quite an effect.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never heard of any sort of rock lowering the pH, but they can certainly raise it. 

Was your driftwood purchased already soaked in water? Or was it dry? If it was dry I imagine it might lower your pH quite a bit more than pre-sunk wet driftwood that's been in a LFS tank for a while.

Keep in mind that a pH of 6.5 will be fine for your tetras in the long term and that a fluctuating pH can be more dangerous than a steady one, even if the steady pH isn't that close to neutral. Going to extremes to change your water's pH could have disasterous effects. I would just keep monitoring it to make sure it doesn't fluctuate wildly.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

I have 2 pieces of small driftwood in my tank. They have this clear gunk on them that makes little bubbles. The other pieces of driftwood are fine though. What is it?



















Also, can someone help me identify if these are males or females? At first, I thought the 2 slimmer ones were males, but one has a large, white belly. Here he/she is:

















And I think this is a female:









So, are either of them pregnant?


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

You should take the driftwood back out and boil it to remove the moldy stuff. It will just pollute your water.

Do you know what sort of driftwood this is? Wood from fruit trees will continue to slime up like that forever, so you'll have to get rid of it if that's the case. Otherwise, with some serious boiling you should be able to add the driftwood back to your tank without the slime coming back.


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## FishGirl (Mar 31, 2008)

You can suck the white slimy stuff off with your 3/4" water change hose minus the big end syphon piece (if you have one of those store bought deals.) It comes right off and doesn't hurt anything. Mystery snails will eat it but don't get enough of it off of the wood to make it look good. In the meantime, it doesn't hurt anything, just looks ugly. Eventually, it will go away.

If you really want to get rid of it quick, just take the wood out and scrub/wash it.

BTW your aquarium is coming along nicely. I vote for a more natural-looking gravel too. I think you would like it.

Also, I gotta tell you that I find mystery snails more interesting than my fish at times. You might like to try getting a couple/few.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Well, MTS hit me quick. 

But first, I just removed the 2 pieces of wood with the slime on them. Then, I bought a bubble wall and tubing for the pump(pic below)











And as I was saying, MTS struck fast. My mom was out yard sale hunting, and we found this 30 g tank, with filter, heater, hood, stand, algae wafers, and airpump + bubble wall for only $20. I was amazed. (It also came with gravel and these fake plants, but I threw them away. 










I was thinking of a SA tank with maybe some tiger barbs. What else could go in there with the tigers? Any other ideas?


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## FishGirl (Mar 31, 2008)

o-o-o-ooh, I like the stand you have that new 30g on!


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## It'sJames (Nov 15, 2007)

Nice find! I'm always looking for fish stuff at garage sales. Hopefully I'll be able to find some good stuff this summer. :wink:


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I successfully keep tiger barbs with a clown pleco and some dwarf puffers. The barbs completely ignore the puffers, and the puffers only attempt to school with the barbs. I chose this combination because I wanted a school of active fish in the tank to keep things lively and because I thought this combination of known fin-nippers would work out. Luckily for me, it has. Maybe I just have really docile fish, though, so I won't claim it's a guaranteed success.


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## Garrity828 (May 13, 2008)

Well,my sister has my camera, but I just got 2 Bamboo Shrimp for my 20 gallon! They are so cool and fun to watch. The larger one (1.5") likes to eat the algae off the crypt plants, while the small one (1") eats the algae wafer I tossed in, but occasionaly eat off of the plants. It's fun trying to find all of their hiding spots. Anyway, todays readings were:
pH: 6.5
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0

Does this mean the cycle is over? That seems a little odd to me. 

At my LSF, I also bought 1 bag of Eco - Complete and 1 bag of Black Tahitian Moon sand. I put about 2 inches of Eco - Complete and 2 inches of sand on top of that in my 30 g. What is the best way to use things from my 20 g to help cycle my 30 g? And are tiger barbs or redtail sharks hardy enough for a cycle? And are those 2 compatible? 
I would like to thank everybody with all the help you have given me  !


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

If your tank has cycled completely you will or should have nitrate reading. Tiger barbs and redtailed shark should be ok. I have used tiger barbs to help cycle tanks. Not sure how hardy shark is in that respect. But there should be no problem with coexisting. For 30 gal. I can only suggest what has worked for me. I would set up 30 gal. and let it run for ten days before buying any fish. Then go and buy five or six active tetras such as serpae, bloodfins, or silver tipped. They are small and will not cause ammonia levels to become lethal. Leave them in the tank for ten days while feeding very sparingly . Then go back and buy one or two more fish agin, something small such as a couple platys. If you introduce fish slowly you will not have lethal levels of ammonia or nitrites. The tank can mature slowly without creating toxins at lethal levels. Then wait another ten days and maybe add one more fish ,maybe something different or unique. Again fish have been added SLOWLY and your tank should be in fourth week of cycling. At this point 10 percent weekly water changes should begin assuming you have had no lethal ammonia or nitrite readings that would cause you to have changed water previous to this point. Small frequent water changes create less stress and water parameters will remain stable and your fish will be comfortable. It is important not to overfeed during this process.Only after the tank is matured should you vaccum the bottom . A small area at each water change a different area each time. I hpoe some of this proves helpful.


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