# Why are some of my fish breathing so hard?



## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I have checked my water and it's right on.I do water changes every other day.5 gallon bucket and then a 30% on Sunday.
I'm just very concerned about my fish.I had a Balloon Angel Ram die this morningFirst casualtie in my 36 gallon tank.Since it's been running.
There is plenty of oxygen as i have a planted tank and a air bubbler.
Any advise would be highly appreciated
Thank you


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## rjordan390 (Feb 18, 2012)

We need more information such as:
1. Date you started the tank.
2. How many fish and type?
3. Water test kits? What type?
4. Is there chlorine or chloramines in your source water?
5. What do you use to treat your source water?
6. How did you cycle the tank?
7. Did you test for ammonia and nitrite at the end of the cycle?
8. Overfeeding your fish can interfere with the biofilter.
9. Too many fish can overload the biofilter.

Give us these and it will help us help you.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

The date was Sept 1st..It's all cycled now.I have Rams,Harlaquin Rasboras,Tetras,Gouramis,Loaches,.I use the API test kit.I also use Seachem Prime for the water.I feed every am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Can't really help without numbers, otherwise it is all guessing.

What you describe are the classic signs of an un-cycled aquarium (Ammonia/Nitrite poisoning).

I always question when people say "the numbers are fine" or similar because that means different things to different people. Any number other than 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite is bad, there is no safe number.

A mistake people often make when new to the hobby is after cycling the tank they fully stock with fish which causes another cycle. A newly cycled tank is very fragile and only 1 or 2 fish should be added (or a small school for schooling fish) with 1-2 weeks between new additions.

Temperature, pH, and water hardness can also factor in.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Amonia is in between 0-0.25,nitrite is 0 and Nitrate is between 0-5.0..Just tested it again.I would take a pic of the water sample but I don't know how to put it on the thread
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

What is the pH reading in the tank? And what is the pH of the tap water (outgas the CO2 by briskly shaking the water in a jar before testing the tap)?

Some of these fish require a good water flow, essential for oxyen, and a lower temperature (thinking of the loaches). Are these perhaps related?

Assuming this is the 36g tank in your log, there is a fish issue. The Dojo Loach attains 9-10 inches and may reach a foot.

Byron.


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## rjordan390 (Feb 18, 2012)

I concur with Geomancer. A fully cycled tank takes about 4 to 6 weeks. And you added too many fish too soon. Your biofilter does not have enough bacteria to process the ammonia.
Too establish your biofilter, purchase a bottle of Seachems "Stability". This will add the necessary bacteria for the biofilter. Add 15 ml on the first day, then use 9 ml for the next 7 days. Use a baby/toddler syringe to measure the dose.
Continue to add prime after every water change. The dose for the Prime should be 3.5 ml.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

The ph in tank is 6.6 and the ph in the tap is 7.6...I do have a good flow in my tank with my power head and the air pump..I will find a good home for Dojo's when they get bigger.I 
work at the LFS.I will make sure they find a good home.They are somewhat small now.I have my temp at 77-78..My tank has alot of plants in it that are doing great for oxygen I'm thinking?
Should I do a 5 gallon water change every day to see if that will help?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

rjordan390 said:


> I concur with Geomancer. A fully cycled tank takes about 4 to 6 weeks. And you added too many fish too soon. Your biofilter does not have enough bacteria to process the ammonia.
> Too establish your biofilter, purchase a bottle of Seachems "Stability". This will add the necessary bacteria for the biofilter. Add 15 ml on the first day, then use 9 ml for the next 7 days. Use a baby/toddler syringe to measure the dose.
> Continue to add prime after every water change. The dose for the Prime should be 3.5
> ml.


Ok thank you..Prime is 3.5 lm each time in a 36 gallon?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Bluydgrl said:


> Ok thank you..Prime is 3.5 lm each time in a 36 gallon?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. Prime is 1 mL/10 gallons. Tank capacity is always lower than the 'rated' so 3.5 is good.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> The ph in tank is 6.6 and the ph in the tap is 7.6...I do have a good flow in my tank with my power head and the air pump..I will find a good home for Dojo's when they get bigger.I
> work at the LFS.I will make sure they find a good home.They are somewhat small now.I have my temp at 77-78..My tank has alot of plants in it that are doing great for oxygen I'm thinking?
> Should I do a 5 gallon water change every day to see if that will help?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oxygen is not likely the issue. In any aquarium, unless it is way overstocked or something suddenly happens to the biology, oxygen will not be a problem. The gaseous exchange at the surface handles this. Fish breathing more rapidly than normal, gasping at the surface, acting listless--all these signs are almost never due to shortage of oxygen. Which is why we are asking questions, to pin point the issue.

I asked about the pH because this, like nitrates, can be a sign of something wrong. Even with all the frequent water changes you are doing, the tap pH of 7.6 is lowering quite a bit down to 6.6 in the aquarium. Has this always been the case? It would also be useful to know the GH and KH/Alkalinity of the tap water, as this is related. A too low pH for the fish species can cause the symptoms desribed. Now, here I would not expect much of an impact at 6.6 with the fish named since most are soft and slightly acidic water fish, but if this is fluctuating it could be more serious.

Which fish species are respirating faster than normal? Is this when they are at rest?

If it is the loaches, it could be oxygen and the temp may be part of it. These fish are cooler water, low 70's is sufficient.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Its my Balloon Angel Rams,Electric Blue Rams,Gourami's and Rummy Nose Tetras.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Its my Balloon Angel Rams,Electric Blue Rams,Gourami's and Rummy Nose Tetras.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It would be hepful to see a video, if this is possible. I know I have in the past thought respiration was above normal, only to learn later it wasn't. Not saying there is no problem, but it can be difficult to diagnose isues.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

How do I put a video on here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> How do I put a video on here?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have seen others who upload the video to YouTube, and then just paste the link. If videos can be downloaded directly here, I don't know how.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I tried earlier but it wouldnt work.I'm going to do a 40% water change tomorrow using Prime and Stability by Seachem and then a 5 gallon each day to see if it gets better.I'm going to rehome my Dojo's when I find them a good homeThey aren't to big right now but the water isn't below 74 either.Just want the best for them also
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Do you think maybe I should start feeding my fish every other day instead of every day?Maybe that could be one of the problems too?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I did call the water company and my water is 13.2 grains and 225 PPM..Not sure what that means tho
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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I did call the water company and my water is 13.2 grains and 225 PPM..Not sure what that means tho
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This needs looking into, as these numbers should prevent the pH from lowering so much. But first, which number is the GH and which the KH?


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

my quick read and summary of the stuff I "keyed" on.

Tank is planted

pH is 6.5

water is treated with prime.

Fish are breathing heavy and at least one has died.

Tank is less then a few months old.

my analysis:

Fish are suffocating. Low oxygen, high CO2 due to the prime treatments and not enough plants.

I would immediately add (and protect from the fish) all the anacharis I could. Oin the order of 10 bunches at the back or corners perhaps behind a partition to protect the plants.

I would stop adding food for a few days and check to see if the pH just before lights out increase. And I mean a large increase. Not just to 6.9 but to 7.5 or higher.

Then look at your fish and see if they are breathing better and more active.

my .02


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

He said it is 231MPL and CACO3 total hardness..He didn't know what KH was.Neither do I?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> He said it is 231MPL and CACO3 total hardness..He didn't know what KH was.Neither do I?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


just looked it up

Caco3 in ppm is one measure of alk.

1ppm caco3=.056 dkh =.02 meg/l

231*.056=12.9dkh. Which is fine assuming I'm accurate.


my planted tanks with peat moss in the substrate, no added chemicals, no filters, no mechanical filtration had a kH of 4 degrees, gh of 9 degrees and a pH of over 8.

so to me with the low pH you have high carbon dioxide which is making it difficult for the fish to exhale. Therefore- the fast breathing. Getting fast growing plants to suck out the co2 will correct that situation. (I also presumed the plants you have are the slower growing one supposed to be used for plant eating fish. But that is really an assumption on my part. Supported my the low pH and fast breathing fish).

Additionally prime and other ammonia locks also lock up oxygen and can suffocate the fish.

still just my .02


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

My fish don't eat my plants.What plants would u recommend?I will go get them today.All my plants I have in my tank are in my Aquarium log.I don't know the names off the top of my head.Im going to do a 40% water change with Prime and Stability.Is this not good?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> My fish don't eat my plants.What plants would u recommend?I will go get them today.All my plants I have in my tank are in my Aquarium log.I don't know the names off the top of my head.Im going to do a 40% water change with Prime and Stability.Is this not good?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
What I start my tanks with is:

(10g)

4-6 bunches of anacharis (back of tank)

4 or so *Vallisneria* (grass like) back and down sides.

4 potted type plants like crypts and the like. (right and left of center)

1 amazon sword centerpiece.

with a 30 gallon you could double and be safe.

The amazon sword you can just one of. It is relatively expensive and gets large so you could even skip.

The small potted are also interesting and expensive so you might skip them also.

The vallisneria is somwwhat expensive but spread rapidily with runners which I find interesting and helps the tank ecosystem.

The anacharis is relatively inexpensive, a very fast grower, that rapidily conditions the tank. But can get "stringie" over a few months and when successful will require frequent pruning.

So overall you get a mix of fast and slow growers. So the fast ones rapidily condition the tank initially then the slower ones like the sword provide more long term balance and stability.

But there are other methods as well.

my .02


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

if you're actually going to plant you could just stick the plants in the substrate.

But if you have time and a container you could.

1) empty all the fish and water out of the tank right down the to substrate.
(of course save both the water and fish :lol

2) plant the plant in the substrate sticking in the air. (this will look really funny with all theplants all bent over).

3) then refill the tank by pouring the water over a dish.

4) then re-add the fish before the last of the water is re-added.

What that does in prevent stirring up the substrate creating a clear tank right from the start. 

If you just stick the plants in the substrate you will stirr up all kinda of crud creating a cloud. In the case of a sand substrate the tank will be so cloudy you can't see 1 " into the tank. then two days later (with my no filter tanks) the tank is almost crystal clear.


my .02


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

My tank is planted
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> My tank is planted
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry I didn't mean to insult ya.

I'm sure you can pick and choose what would be best for your aquarium.

that was just what works for me.

Again sorry.

worth a lot more the my usual.


.02


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Lol...u didn't insult me...I have most of those plants.I'm going to do a water change now and see how that goes
No worries at all..I appreciate your input
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> Lol...u didn't insult me...I have most of those plants.I'm going to do a water change now and see how that goes
> No worries at all..I appreciate your input
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
And I appreciate your posting how things are going.

If you already have those plants perhaps the best thing to do is nothing and hopefully it will just get all better and better on it's own.

still learning for my

.02


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> And I appreciate your posting how things are going.
> 
> If you already have those plants perhaps the best thing to do is nothing and hopefully it will just get all better and better on it's own.
> 
> ...


I just did my 40% water change and added my Prime and Stability.I will see how that goes.My water test real good.I wish i could post pics on here and video's but i don't know how
I'm still learning also.I'm looking into a 75 gallon for Christmas.I'd be so happy


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Posting photos I can help with. When you type the post, in the section below headed "Additional Options" you click the "Manage Attachments" button, then in the pop-up window click "Browse" and find the photo on your PC and double click it.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

What is the best PH to have in my 36 gallon?
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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> What is the best PH to have in my 36 gallon?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


whatever makes the fish happy. :lol:

Actually IMHO there is not one value of pH for your tank or anyone elses'.

for instance pH increases with decreasing carbon dioxide. Which would hardly be harmful to any fish.

So a lot depends on what else is happening in the tank with resulting differences in pH and everything else.

In my (what people consider wierd) tank with no mechanical circulation or filtration, I consistantly see a pH of well over 8 with the api high range test kit. Usually peggin that kit at 8.4-8.8. And for both FW and marine and even FW tank with 1" of peat moss under the substrate. Yet with those "extreme" values even fish like neon tetras and hachetfish that are reported as needing ph values of 7 or less, live for years and years.

But those tanks are fully balanced out with plants (FW) and algae (marine) which makes the tank a net sink of carbon dioxide and source of oxygen each 24 hour period. Again, hardly a dangerous or unhealthy environment for any fish.

My concern with your low pH was that the tank was not fully balanced out resulting in high carbon dioxide causing the fish to breath rapidily.

But you tank could be different.

And mine is still only worth at most.


.02


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> What is the best PH to have in my 36 gallon?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Earlier in this thread, the pH of your tank was given as 6.6 and the tap pH was 7.6. I mentioned then that the 6.6 was fine for the fish named, so there is no need to mess with this.

But, I was curious about the GH and KH since the pH in the tank does lower a fair bit. This is natural (the lowering as the tank becomes more acidic from biological processes) and fine so long as it is not going to continue to extremes. Test the pH prior to each water change and this will tell you if there is any significant fluctuation from week to week.

My article on hardness and pH in the freshwater aquarium (in the Freshwater Articles section of this forum) may give some insight into all this.

Byron.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I will read it.I just went to the LFS and got 3 more plants and some flourish comp supplement.I was using the Excel.The guy at the fish store said I could use them both together.Is this true?
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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I will read it.I just went to the LFS and got 3 more plants and some flourish comp supplement.I was using the Excel.The guy at the fish store said I could use them both together.Is this true?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, but I must caution you on the Excel. This is a liquid carbon supplement, and the ingredient (besides water) is polycycloglutaracetal, apparently a trade name for a product developed by SeaChem, which appears to be an isomeric form of glutaraldehyde. The Material Safety Data Sheet for Excel list glutaraldehyde as the active ingredient, and cautions on its use.

This chemical is a disinfectant used in hospitals to kill bacteria, it is used in embalming, and in anti-freeze. It can irritate skin on contact. Some plants (Vallisneria is one) will melt when Excel (or APIès similar CO2 Booster) is used. If it happens to be overdosed, it may kill plants, fish and bacteria, depending.

There should be sufficient CO2 naturally occurring in the aquarium to avoid using such a risky product. But if you do, recognize that the light and other nutrients may need to be increased to balance. Plants can only photosynthesize fully if all their requirements are met.

Byron.

Byron.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> Yes, but I must caution you on the Excel. This is a liquid carbon supplement, and the ingredient (besides water) is polycycloglutaracetal, apparently a trade name for a product developed by SeaChem, which appears to be an isomeric form of glutaraldehyde. The Material Safety Data Sheet for Excel list glutaraldehyde as the active ingredient, and cautions on its use.
> 
> This chemical is a disinfectant used in hospitals to kill bacteria, it is used in embalming, and in anti-freeze. It can irritate skin on contact. Some plants (Vallisneria is one) will melt when Excel (or APIès similar CO2 Booster) is used. If it happens to be overdosed, it may kill plants, fish and bacteria, depending.
> 
> ...


Doesn't sound good.I wont use it then.Thank you again.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I reviewed the video you sent me (Kelli) and have now re-read this thread. As I mentioned in my PM, the rams and gourami do seem to be respirating a bit faster than normal, and one gourami is actually down at the substrate behind a plant, obviously stressed by something.

I'm not suggesting any one of the following is the cause, though each may contribute.

I assume the Excel is not being added, so that gets rid of one toxin. The temp at 78 is low for the ram, but I would not expect this to cause the fish trouble getting oxygen, rather the opposite. But again, too low a temp is stress.

I am puzzled by the low pH. A decrease of more than a full point from 7.6 down to 6 when the KH is as high as it is here is not normal. This could be affecting the ram, not sure about the gourami. The ram is very sensitive to water parameters and needs to be maintained in water very close to that in which it was raised. As these are likely tank-raised fish, and not wild caught, the params for the breeder would be important. This presumably we do not know (?) but assuming it is close to your tap water then the lower pH could well be doing this.

My advice would be more frequent water changes. About 1/3 of the tank, daily, using only the conditioner (Prime). Do a vacuuming of the substrate where it is open with the first and second WC. Monitor the pH by testing it just prior to each WC. This should raise it up slowly. Aside from the WC's, don't do any other disturbance in or near the tank, to provide the fish with quiet time to further reduce stress.

Keep us posted on how this progresses.

Byron.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok..I have been rearranging plants in the tank.I'm rehoming Dojos tomorrow. Getting big
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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I have been doing my 50% water changes and they still are breathing the same.I still feed them everyday but they eat all there food.It's hard for me not to feed them when i have these little eyes following me every time i walk by the tank.They know there feeding schedule.If feeding them every other day will help them,then i will do that
Should i start buying RO water?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I have been doing my 50% water changes and they still are breathing the same.I still feed them everyday but they eat all there food.It's hard for me not to feed them when i have these little eyes following me every time i walk by the tank.They know there feeding schedule.If feeding them every other day will help them,then i will do that
> Should i start buying RO water?


What are current readings for pH and ammonia?

I just noticed that this thread is missing some critical info that we discussed by PM when I had your video. To bring others onside and gain the benefit of their advice too, I will summarize.

The pH in the tank is now in the high 7's so it is close to the tap and remaining stable. The previous pH of 6 is no longer relevant, so this means the ammonia reading is toxic ammonia and not ammonium. I believe this is the cause of the fast respiration. The ammonia is slowly burning the gills. My suggestion now is for daily partial water changes using Prime until ammonia is zero.

Byron.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> What are current readings for pH and ammonia?
> 
> I just noticed that this thread is missing some critical info that we discussed by PM when I had your video. To bring others onside and gain the benefit of their advice too, I will summarize.
> 
> ...


I still can't seem to download a pic...The PH is between 7.8 and 8.0 and the Ammonia looks good to me..I will try and send a pic


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

bluydgrl said:


> i still can't seem to download a pic...the ph is between 7.8 and 8.0 and the ammonia looks good to me..i will try and send a pic



i did it!!!!!yahoo


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> i did it!!!!!yahoo


Here is another pic


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> Here is another pic



The PH looks darker in the pic.They don't seem to be breathing as hard but still not like the should.
Should i have more movement on top of my water?I have the Rena xp2 and a 12" air pump.No much movement on the right side of the tank.Maybe that could create more oxygen?
Could it be my lights??I have a Coralife T5 HO.I run a Colormax and a 6,700K bulb in it.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> The PH looks darker in the pic.They don't seem to be breathing as hard but still not like the should.
> Should i have more movement on top of my water?I have the Rena xp2 and a 12" air pump.No much movement on the right side of the tank.Maybe that could create more oxygen?
> Could it be my lights??I have a Coralife T5 HO.I run a Colormax and a 6,700K bulb in it.


It is not really an oxygen issue, though more oxygen in the water won't hurt as this makes it easier for the fish to respire when their gills are being inflamed by ammonia or similar. Gasping at the surface would be worse, so I wouldn't worry about this. It will take some time for the gills to settle, and frankly I'm not sure how or if this happens.

I'm not seeing the connection with the light... ?

TGhe colour in the photos varies, but in a coujple of them where the colours on the card are darker the test tube results seem good.

Byron.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I thought so to.I kept the lights off most of the day as it was light in there already.They seemed more active.I'm going to skip feeding tomorrow and go from there.I will keep you posted
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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

*My reading today*

It looks like its staying the same..Still don't know why they are breathing the way they are


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> It looks like its staying the same..Still don't know why they are breathing the way they are


The PH is about 1-2 shades lighter then it looks.Its like 7.4..How do i get my PH down?Maybe thats what it is?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Those results are fine, re the ammonia especially. Avoid any stress to the fish so they can be calm. Then let's hope for the best.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> Those results are fine, re the ammonia especially. Avoid any stress to the fish so they can be calm. Then let's hope for the best.



Ok...Thank you for your help Bryon


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I have been buying 7 gallons of R/O water(Culligan) from Walmart to see if it will help my fish.It's now between 7.6 and 7.4(High range).They are still breathing some what the same.Maybe not as hard.Ammonia,nitate,and nitrite all seem real good.Hope this will help.The Rams like the water a little soft.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I have been buying 7 gallons of R/O water(Culligan) from Walmart to see if it will help my fish.It's now between 7.6 and 7.4(High range).They are still breathing some what the same.Maybe not as hard.Ammonia,nitate,and nitrite all seem real good.Hope this will help.The Rams like the water a little soft.


As long as ammonia and nitrite remain zero, things will be as best as you can have them now.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok...Thank you
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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Just did a water change and took out 10 gallons of water and added 10 gallons of RO water.Water is still between 7.6 and high 7.4.When will it go down?Fish are still breathing the same.Water is at 0 on all 3.Still frustratingHate to see my fish breathing like this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Just did a water change and took out 10 gallons of water and added 10 gallons of RO water.Water is still between 7.6 and high 7.4.When will it go down?Fish are still breathing the same.Water is at 0 on all 3.Still frustratingHate to see my fish breathing like this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can you email me a video of now?

Generally, unless I see something in the video, as long as ammonia and nitrite are zero the issue is resolved. Maybe another member knows if damage to the gills from high ammonia will continue to make the fish respiration faster once the ammonia is gone. I don't know this.

Byron.


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> Just did a water change and took out 10 gallons of water and added 10 gallons of RO water.Water is still between* 7.6 and high 7.4.When will it go down*?Fish are still breathing the same.Water is at 0 on all 3.Still frustratingHate to see my fish breathing like this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Hopefully never.

high pH means low carbon dioxide hence easier breathing for your fish.

My uncirculated planted tanks had a pH value much higher then that. Like 8.4-8.8 with the api high range test kit. Fish that are reported as "needing" soft low pH water live for years with no heavy breathing.

(It's not the pH but why the pH is at the value).

Still just my .02


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> Those results are fine, re the ammonia especially. Avoid any stress to the fish so they can be calm. Then let's hope for the best.


Ok....Ammonia is 0..I will test in the morning and post a pic.
Thanks Bryon


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Water is still the same.I was doing a 40% water change today and noticed my Electric Blue Ram was being aggressive and even came after my hand when I was cleaning near him.I couldn't figure it out.He was being real aggressive toward all the other tank mates that got close to him.I was trimming back the plants when I saw what looked like something growing on the leaves.I rubbed my finger on them and realized they were eggs he was guarding.I felt SOOOO bad.There are still some on the leaf.He and the other EBR which I'm guessing now is a female have been guarding this leaf all day.I do hope they hatch but not sure they will make it with all the other fish in there.I felt bad all day cuz I disturbed the eggs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Water is still the same.I was doing a 40% water change today and noticed my Electric Blue Ram was being aggressive and even came after my hand when I was cleaning near him.I couldn't figure it out.He was being real aggressive toward all the other tank mates that got close to him.I was trimming back the plants when I saw what looked like something growing on the leaves.I rubbed my finger on them and realized they were eggs he was guarding.I felt SOOOO bad.There are still some on the leaf.He and the other EBR which I'm guessing now is a female have been guarding this leaf all day.I do hope they hatch but not sure they will make it with all the other fish in there.I felt bad all day cuz I disturbed the eggs
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In a community tank, fry survival is rare. Plus the issue of feeding them. The cichlids will spawn repeatedly, never fear.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok...Next time I will knowI felt horrible.Do you think the 2 Electic Blue Rams are breeding?I have other Balloon Rams in there to but I'm thinking it's these 2.How cute!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Ok...Next time I will knowI felt horrible.Do you think the 2 Electic Blue Rams are breeding?I have other Balloon Rams in there to but I'm thinking it's these 2.How cute!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As these are colour variations of the same species, it may be possible for male/female of both to spawn, I don't know.

The fish closely guarding the eggs is probably the female. The male of the "pair" should be close by defending the general territory, though sometimes this doesn't quite work out. I had a "pair" of the Bolivian that spawned four times. The female aggressively drove the male well away from the eggs the first spawning, then the reverse happened the second spawning. The third and fourth saw the norm, with the female right over the eggs and the subsequent shoal of fry and the male very close by. At that point, not being a bonded pair, the male tired of her and his continual aggression killed her.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Oh that's sad.I'm sorry!I bought 2 EBR about a month or so ago and found one dead awhile back.There was one left at the LFS all by itself so I bought that one about 2 weeks ago.She or he was much smaller.These are now the ones producing the eggs..The big one must be the female then?They look both the same.Just one is smaller then the other
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

They both take turns guarding the eggs.It's cute!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Oh that's sad.I'm sorry!I bought 2 EBR about a month or so ago and found one dead awhile back.There was one left at the LFS all by itself so I bought that one about 2 weeks ago.She or he was much smaller.These are now the ones producing the eggs..The big one must be the female then?They look both the same.Just one is smaller then the other
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When we add a fish of the opposite sex to a tank with one fish, they frequently spawn readily, at least for a few times. That's what my Bolivians did. But both species in this genus have to form bonded pairs which remain for life, usually anyway. They select their own mate for this. The male may accept the female you have, or may not; nothing we can do about that.

If the fish are the same age, and are healthy, the larger will be the male. But age and past health affect this, so no certainty. The breeding tube (ovipositor) if it can be seen is the best guide. Check the profile, Blue Ram. [Just noticed, I need to add this to the profile. The ovipositor of the female is thicker (to allow the eggs to pass) that the male.]


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