# Longnose butterfly and Red General



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

So I purchased a longnose the other day and then the next morning I fed my red general some krill and left for school, when I got home I had found that a piece of my starfish was missing. Will this grow back and was the longnose nipping it to get the krill? My other cc is untouched and I am wondering if it is because I didn't feed him. So does anyone know what i should do and is my starfish going to be ok, will he die from a cut like that? the wound is in the groove between two arms.


----------



## Dave66 (Mar 26, 2008)

melo said:


> So I purchased a longnose the other day and then the next morning I fed my red general some krill and left for school, when I got home I had found that a piece of my starfish was missing. Will this grow back and was the longnose nipping it to get the krill? My other cc is untouched and I am wondering if it is because I didn't feed him. So does anyone know what i should do and is my starfish going to be ok, will he die from a cut like that? the wound is in the groove between two arms.


Melo,
The star will be fine. They can regenerate missing arms and pieces of their disc no problem. And long-nosed butterfly fish don't eat starfish; micro-crustaceans and various zooplankton are what it eats, but to get him to start eating, use live adult, enriched brine shrimp. You can follow by adding frozen mysis shrimp to the menu. Mixing a few frozen with the live shrimp will wean him off the live food. You should try different frozen foods and high-quality pellets to see what all he will eat. The more varied foods he'll take the better off he'll be.

Dave


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

Well today my red general was dead with several areas where he had been picked, I really wish my lfs wouldn't have lied and said that the longnose was compatible with the red general because I like him much better, but I guess that's how you learn. Anyone know why the longnose did not attack the chocolate chip, yet continuosly attacked the red general?


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Longnose butterflies are very difficult to get to feed and to keep healthy.
They are very fussy eaters and in the wild thrive primarily on corals and sponges. It is for this reason they are considered a very difficult fish to keep.

How big is your tank?

Has anyone warned you that chocolate chip starfish will eat fish if they have the opportunity? They are one of a handful of starfish that are carninvorous.


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Your LFS did not lie. They gave you the best possible advise based on their experience and the experience of other hobbyists. Sometimes fish behavior is unpredictable, and in saltwater aquariums this happens even more frequently. To help prevent this problem, never buy fish which are pushing the limits of your aquarium size or your experience. I don't know your tank size, but i would not suggest a Long Nose Butterfly for anyone with an aquarium smaller than 75 gallons, or for anyone with less than several years experience in the marine hobby.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

It's not the butterfly that the red general isn't compatible with.... it's the chocolate chip starfish. It is highly possible that the choc chip did the damage. They can be ruthless when they find an opportunity at live food!


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

My tank is 80 gallons and the longnose actually has been a voracious eater which i was pleased with. yes I do know that cc are carnivorous but its the fact that I saw the longnose do all the damage to the red general. The cc has not eaten anything in my tank but the krill i give him. I did not know that longnose are difficult to care for though, I 'm not too experienced but he's doing great so far. I'm just so pissed the longnose killed my favorite thing in the tank :x


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

There could be any number of reasons for it, but fish are not all that different from people when it comes to having individual personalities. It is not typical for a butterfly of any species to bother a starfish... sometimes we have to live and learn.

Also, please remember that a lot happens in that tank when you're not watching it, especially at night. A large part of reef animals are nocturnal, so when the lights go off and you go to bed, they are just getting started. 

It is possible that damage could have been done during the night, or that something completely unrelated was wrong with the starfish. When an animal dies or starts to die, it's normal to see others picking at it. 
Turbo snails don't eat fish, but if a fish gets sick and lays on the bottom, or dies... the turbo is right there with everything else feeding on it. 

Those particular starfish are not one of the hardiest species, either. Many come in with issues that aren't apparent right away. Some starfish are very sensitive to stress, and just moving them can kill them... and its a slow death. 

You're lucky to have a butterfly who's not so picky about feeding. That also is not "average" for them. How much live rock is in the tank? If animals don't have enough suitable shelter, they can become vulnerable to bullys. If rock is spaced too far apart, moving from one end or section to another would also leave them vulnerable to bullys and predators. 

Can you post a picture of your tank?


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

ok thanks it makes sense that maybe the starfish was already dying and the butterfly just finished it. There is 45 pounds of live rock and it is an 80 gallon FOWLR. Yes I can post a picture


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)




----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)




----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

/Users/ckrahn/Desktop/IMG_3908.JPG 

This is the longnose, how much bigger than this will he get?


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)




----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

The longnose butterfly fish average about 9 inches full grown, the foxface about 10 inches, and the ocellaris clown 3 - 5 depending on if it's male or female. 1 clown alone will usually be female so you can expect about 5 inches. That means those fish in that size of a tank is only temporary.

There is not nearly enough live rock in there, either. You should have about double that amount. A good average is 1 lb/gallon of tank size, or as much as you can fit into it. This not only creates territories for the fish/animals, but it is also the largest part of your filtration.

Please be careful when your hands are in the tank. The dorsal spines of a foxface are venomous, and they can make you extremely sick. It doesn't have to be aggressive to nab you, either. Accidents happen all the time... look at Steve Irwin's fate. I see a fair amount of coraline growth on your rock, that's a good thing, but I also see the beginnings of a cyano bacteria issue. What kind of filtration are you running now? How many powerheads in the tank? (Its hard to tell in the pictures) 

Your tank is coming along, but still needs some help. Your starfish would have been very vulnerable in that tank, with nowhere to hide. While fixing the current issues it would be a good idea to start planning the next tank... at least 150 gallons for those fish. A sump system would make things easier to keep healthy, and a good skimmer is also going to be needed. Healthy fish grow pretty rapid in most species... and yours will be no exception. If they get too large for the tank you'll have one of 2 problems... either it will be impossible for you to keep water params stable or they will start to fight with each other for territory. My guess would be the foxface would win because of his dorsal spines... better to prep now and avoid an expensive disaster.

Thanks for posting the pics, that tells us a lot.


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

Yes I am looking to add more live rock, but I wasn't planning on getting a new tank. We told the guy at our lfs what we had as far as tank size and live rock and he recommended some fish to us. I have been told as a general rule that it is 2 inches of fish per gallon, which would mean I could get no more than 40 inches of fish, with the fish i have in there i am at 28 inches, so what's the problem? I am using a Rena Filstar xp3 for a filter, I have one powerhead, then i also have a powerhad for the uv sterilizer, and for a skimmer I have the seaclone. What is cyano bacteria? And how do i cure it?


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I am familiar with the filstar xp3, and I can say for certain that this filter by itself is not going to be sufficient to filter that size of a tank with those fish in it. It simply isn't strong enough and doesn't allow for enough media to properly filter something of that size by itself.

With that said, the other problem with that filter is lack of circulation. A canister filter and 1 powerhead alone, especially with such a small amount of live rock in the tank, is not going to offer you enough circulation and filtration to meet those animal's needs.

Cyano bacteria is the organism which is a cross between algae and bacteria that can feed on the same foods as algae, but also feeds on decaying matter and organics that bacteria can. It is very common and is something that is needed to some extent for the environment to function properly. When there is lack of circulation and/or filtration, water is not moved enough through the filter and is not moved enough in the tank to avoid the cyano bacteria from growing at too fast a rate. Cyano bacteria will quickly smother the beneficial organisms in live sand, live rock, and the filter. Coraline algae, which is the pink and purple algaes that grow on the rock and glass can be smothered very quickly by cyano bacteria build up.

As for the guy at your lfs, shame on him. Anyone with any real knowledge in saltwater should know that those fish are not going to be able to remain in that tank long term. I don't know where he came up with the rule of 2 inches of fish per gallon, but that is false. 
The number of animals that can successfully stay in a saltwater tank will be determined by a number of factors. First and foremost, space... territory... these animals need places to get away from each other if they need/want to. Another factor is oxygen content in the water. Saltwater is more dense than freshwater, thus oxygen content is lower. Another thing that has to be taken into account is the species of fish and their compatibility and basic habits. Food supply is another factor. Not all animals will rely completely on foods we give them, and they need enough space to find food on their own, and enough of it.

If your lfs guy were correct, picture this.... a 40 inch grouper in an 80 gallon tank. Take a tape measure and walk over to your tank. Measure 40 inches and tell me where that fish would go... how it would turn aronud and swim? That is absurd. There is no specific "rule" that applies to fish in a tank... too many fish's habits will defy any "rule" that you could possibly come up with.

So, again, I must state... your fish can't stay in that size of a tank long term. For just the fish you have, 150 gallons will be a minimum due to dimensions of the tank and sizes of the fish, and the needs of those specific fish. If the tank isn't large enough, as those fish grow, you will notice that these fish will become sick and obtain injuries just from the tank itself, and its water conditions. Even with a 100% water change every day to handle waste levels, these fish will have such restrictions on movement that they will suffer terribly. Longnose butterfly fish tend to injure the "snout" on the glass from bumping into it, and the foxface simply won't be able to move around enough to pass water through the gills to obtain oxygen. 

A suggestion for you.... consult with someone other than your lfs guy when it comes to your tank. Many lfs's are simply there to take your money, and many of the employees at these places have no real knowledge when it comes to long term care of the animals they sell to you. I have seen many cases where people simply make something up because it sounds good, and to them that's better than not having an answer for you and easier than looking it up for you. Their interest lies strictly in your pocketbook. There are also many lfs's out there who will purposely sell things that won't work because each failure brings you back to their store to spend more money to fix the problems. 

The lack of live rock and circulation is something that must be dealt with asap. Those are 2 things needed to keep those fish healthy... and your tank at present doesn't provide enough for them and their current habitat.

Can I ask for your water params, please? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, and calcium levels.... these are all things you should know all the time, and again, will be the biggest indicators of problems that can't be visibly seen by the human eye. Water can be crystal clear and still be polluted. Most pollutants in an aqauarium are not visible without proper test kits.

Once you post those water params we'll be able to help even further.


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

Params: High alkalinity, for ammonia it was between 0 and 0.25 p.p.m. on the color scale, but way more towards the 0 color, 0.05 p.p.m. on Nitrite, and 5.0 to 10.0 p.p.m. on Nitrates. So my params seem pretty good right now, I just did a water change to get those Nitrites down to 0.[/img]


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

Ok well I looked on several different web sites about the longnose and foxface and every website said that a minimum of 75 gallons was required, and mine is 80 so what's the problem? A few even said 70 was suitable, I know you are very knowledgeable but why would every website say that they can go in an 80? And the xp3 cycles 350 gallons per hour isn't that enough for an 80? plus with my powerhead, skimmer, and powerhead for the uv sterilizer I am getting about 600 to 700 gallons cycled per hour. Im not arguing with you, but it just doesn't make sense why several people have recommended me these fish and accessories.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

A website listing 75 gallons for a minimum for those fish may be considering for just one of that species of fish... in which case it would be a bit crowded, but yes, you could do that if it were 1 foxface in a 75 or 1 longnose in a 75 (for a while). The fact that you have them both in 80 doesn't work the same... 
If you figure that each one of those fish needs 75 gallons alone, then the 2 together in a 150 should make perfect sense. The other thing is that most of the websites like Dr's Foster & Smith, for example, will list the stats about the fish, but will also list the minimum tank size to *start* out with for these fish at the sizes they are sending them to you. That doesn't allow for growth of that animal. I wonder how many of those same sites would have a tiara batfish, listed as a minimum of 75 - 125 gallons...but if you did your research you'd find that they grow to about 2.5 ft long and about 2.5 feet tall. Then if you do the math, there's no way that fish would be able to even fit into that size of a tank and still be under water or able to move. Nurse sharks are another common situation like this. Most sites will mark them at needing about 150 - 250 gallons... and they get 10 ft long. Common sense says they won't stay long in 150 - 250 gallons if you know that this is a minimum to get you started, and then the tank size needs to increase as the animal grows.

As for the filter... again, circulation is the issue. Your photos clearly showed the beginnings of a cyano problem on your live rock. You are welcome enough to leave it all as is, but when things go downhill steadily, possibly rapidly, then please don't wonder why. I have tried nicely to point it out to you and offered help in fixing it before it becomes a real issue. 

My concern is for the fish, over anything else. I have seen these fish as full grown, and there is no way that those fish together will fit into an 80 gallon tank together when they are full grown, and still be healthy and able to survive. 

Also, just a quick note about info found on the internet. Not all of it is accurate. Anyone can build a website, anyone can make claims to take your money... that doesn't mean they all know what they're talking about. Please be careful what information you call truth. As Bob would put it, there are fish havers and fish keepers... and it makes all the difference in the world. There are wholesalers out there who only sell to pet stores, and quite often they send things mismarked. If the store isn't familiar with what they've ordered, it can be very dangerous. 

My husband went into a pet store one day, was browsing the tanks. At the end of 1 aisle he saw a tank full of saltwater snails. He recognized them right away, both from his years of study and schooling and from having seen them in person years before... the snails were cone snails. These are highly deadly animals, and 1 sting from 1 snail can kill a full grown man within 3 minutes. There was also a price listed on the tank for these snails, and a wrong name. My husband tracked down the store manager, took him to the tank and explained to him what he had there. The manager was horrified... he had no idea and he had put his hands into that tank not an hour earlier. He immediately marked the tank as not for sale and "dangerous" so that nobody would touch them, thanked my husband, and went to call the wholesaler. He said they came in marked as the name he had on the tank, and he hadn't known any better.

Having been in the pet industry for so many years, I have to say, this is not uncommon. Even in our own store, we'd order something specific, and get something completely unrelated, and marked as what we ordered. I am lucky, I worked at one of the very few places where formal training was a daily part of our job, and where we had to know everything possible about anything that came into our store. My boss at the store is personal friends with someone who runs the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, and one of my own personal friends works at the Milwaukee Zoo in the aquatic/reptile building. We share information in general conversation, and we consult with each other when we have questions. One of the typical conversations when we get together is the amount of misinformation or unclear information that is out there running rampant right now, and about things we are all trying to do to stop it. That is the reason I come here.

I don't wish to argue, just to give you some base for the trust I am asking of you. I don't enjoy telling people things they don't want to hear, it's not a fun job.... but someone has to do it. I am very sorry you may feel misled by others right now, that isn't fair to you... and more over it isn't fair to your animals. The lfs's are businesses, which means that everything they do boils down to 1 final thing... making a buck by the end of the day, however they can. The same thing applies at many of the websites where people are getting this information. It's not totally untrue, so they are able to post it without legal worry or complication... but it is very misleading. To tell you more means more work for them, and more money they lose in time invested. To them that doesn't make sense... to you, the consumer, the pet keeper, it can mean the difference in your pocketbook and loss of life with your pets. Call your local zoo, or even a public aquarium... ask them about these animals and their long term care needs... those are the people who understand the problem, and it's mostly those kinds of people who are working and giving of their own time to help stop it. 

The same thing happens in the freshwater world, so don't feel like this is simply a unique problem with marine fish. Irridescent sharks, pacu, red tail catfish, arrowana... all the same problems. Look them up online and most sites will tell you they need average about 125 gallons or less... but these animals grow to 3 - 6 ft in length, and anyone who does the math would understand that as the fish grows, so must its environment.


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I agree completely with Dawn's comments. I would invite Melo to consider the origin, experience, and motivation of those parties involved. There is no doubt that you should be looking for a much larger aquarium within the next 1 or 2 years. If this is not reasonable, then return the fish and purchase selections that can thrive in your size aquarium long term.


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

ok so longterm what can go in my 80, say I were to start all over, what would you put in an 80 and feel comfortable leaving in there for many years?


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

One last comment, again i am not trying to defy you just venting because I'm pissed I've spent like two grand and now you're telling me I can't put anything in an 80 gallon. My brother has a 55 gallon bowfront with two oscars, and they have been living healthy and happy for over three years, while it is messy because he feeds them live, space has never stressed them and they have adjusted according to the tank. Just wanted to throw that out there, maybe the longnose and foxface will do well.


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Melo- I think your brothers tank is a great example of what we are trying to communicate. It all depends on how you define success. If his Oscars live to be 6 years old, would you consider that to be successful? I would not. In order to thrive properly these fish would need a tank closer to 125 gallons in size. 

Look, there are 2 schools of thought to fishkeeping. What CAN i get away with? And what SHOULD I do for my fish to live out a natural lifespan? I think we have a responsibility, especially in the marine hobby, to provide the fish with an environment they can thrive in and live out their natural life. 

I was at a friends house yesterday. She has a 2 gallon desktop aquarium with a goldfish in it. Goldfish as easy to keep, so the fish looks "happy". It swims around and comes to the glass to feed and "look at people." Yet everyone experienced in this hobby knows that fish is being slowly tortured and will die long before necessary.

Maybe your fish will do well in an 80 gallon. This isn't a case of abuse. Its not like you have a 29 gallon tank. However, for long term sustained success over the life of the fish, you should give serious thought to planning an upgrade in tank size in the near future.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Pasfur has given a very good answer to this one. 2 oscars in 55 gallons makes me cringe. I have 1 oscar, he's in 120 gallons by himself, and he's almost 12 yrs old... he's full grown at about 14 inches. I would ask that someone take a tape measure and figure out where two 14 inch fish would even be able to move around in 55 gallons. There won't be enough width in the tank for those fish to turn around properly, and what when they grow large enough to fight for territory? Or, as Pasfur has mentioned... what happens when those fish get sick and die at age 4? A healthy oscar of 3 - 4 yrs old shouldn't even fit into a tank of that size. IF they both fit in there, then I have to wonder how much damage has already been done.

Too many people are still of the belief that a fish will grow to the size of its environment. That simply isn't true. A fish will grow as large as the tank allows, but then water quality takes over and makes them sick. It starts out by stunting their growth, and at the same time causes extensive internal damage to their organs. Basically, they suffer until their bodies simply can't take it anymore and begin to shut down. 
The other consequence of not keeping fish in proper size habitats is physical deformity. I saw the results of a guy raising a jack dempsy to full grown at 8 inches... in a 10 gallon tank. I wish now that I had taken pictures of it so others could see and learn to understand that there are some things you just don't do. With 100% water changes every day and the best of foods, the fish was very healthy.... but as he grew and ran out of space, his spine began to grow kinked to accomidate the limited space. When the guy finally got tired of doing the work needed to keep the fish alive, he dumped him off on our doorstep. We put an 8 inch fish into a 40 breeder QT tank, and he died within about a wk. Why? Because he couldn't swim, couldn't even hold himself upright without the sides of the tank to hold him up. Is that humane and the right thing to do? A fish that should have lived 20+ yrs died at the age of 3. 

I understand you're upset, and like I've said, I don't enjoy having to tell people the truths behind what they have or what they were told by someone else... but someone has to do it for the sake of the animals. 

When I was working at the store I used to use children for examples of keeping fish... it always works well because they are so similar. When you bring a newborn baby home from the hospital, put it into a bassinet to sleep... as that child grows you move them into a crib, and eventually a "big kids bed". Why? What would happen if you tried to keep a 2 yr old sleeping in a bassinet? Or, what would happen if you bought newborn clothing and as that child grew and got older, you kept him/her in newborn clothing? 

One last comment and then I'll stop kicking a dead horse here...
Your brother is keeping freshwater fish, you are keeping saltwater fish... that also makes a huge difference. As I've already explained, the salinity of the water makes it more dense, meaning less oxygen. Marine fish have very large territories in their natural habitats... and with your foxface, you are also dealing with venom that will kill other fish. If/when that foxface gets too crowded, those dorsal spines full of venom will help him to win the territory in that tank when he begins to eliminate the other fish around him to make room for himself. 

I feel bad that you've been misled by others, but unfortunately, there is more myth out there than honest and accurate information when it comes to fish keeping. The choice is still yours, but 2 grand is a lot of money to watch it die or wait until its too late to notice that it doesn't/can't work long term. I would again ask that if you're still in doubt, call some place like the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, ask them these questions.... Ask them if those fish can stay together long term in an 80 gallon tank, and then ask them why not. Go to people who know first hand for sure what happens... people who take care of them long term and have the education to go with their experience. I would have to wonder how much experience your lfs guy has long term in caring for those kinds of fish, and what his educational background is on the topic. I have been in lfs's that sell pacu to people with 55 gallon tanks and tell them they'll do great! A pacu gets about 5 ft long and about 4 ft tall... how would that possibly fit into a 55 gallon tank once it starts to grow? It can't. If you go into a lfs who stocks arrowanna... how large of a tank do they say that fish will need? How big does it get? Is it even possible? Arrowana, being a surface dweller that averages over 6 ft long full grown, and about 2 - 3 ft around... needs over 1000 gallons to survive long term... and has a life span of over 30 yrs. One of our lfs's currently has a 2.5 ft arrowana in a 175 bow front tank... is that fair to the fish? Is that a healthy environment? That fish isn't even 1/3 grown yet... where will it go when it gets to 3 ft?

Your situation is going to be no different if you don't start planning a larger tank already. Again, for those 2 fish you'll need 150 gallons or more. When I suggest a tank size for someone, I always ask what fish they want to keep first, and start them off in the proper size tank to allow that animal full growth, or at least a few yrs worth... but I always warn about what it will need in the near future. It's better for the fish to grow into the tank, and is much cheaper in the long run, too. 

Proper stocking of an 80 gallon tank leaves for a lot of possibilities. To sit here and name off specific species would fill this thread beyond what anyone would want to read. The better way to do it is to tell you that 2 - 3 fish who's maximum size is 5 - 6 inches would be the limit. 3 damsels could stay long term in an 80 gallon tank. The only damsel I can think of that stays small enough to have more than that would be the blue damsel. The others average about 6 - 8 inches full grown. Why don't people see them full grown very often? Mostly because they start out in small tanks not realizing these fish will get so large, and then between water quality and space issues, the fish die before they ever see full grown. I don't want to see your fish die.


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

then the whole aquarium hobby is cruel with your logic. fish should be in their natural habitats with thousands of gallons of water, that is why we have aquariums, so we can view them closely, no fish is happy in an aquarium. I'm sure your oscar would much rather be in a river or lake than in a tank. I will reply back in a few months with an update on my fish


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

While I do agree that these animals should be left in their natural habitats, I also understand that as wonderful as it sounds, it's not going to happen. My oscar has never known a wild habitat, he was born in an aquarium, raised in an aquarium, and I found him in a pet store at about 3 inches in length. I prefer to have a tank bred fish instead of one that was removed from its natural habitat, whenever possible.

All I was trying to point out is that there are specific needs that these animals have, and if we choose to keep them in a box of water, those needs have to be met. In a natural environment, a lot of the issues that plague aquarium fish never come into play because these animals are adapted to it, and the sizes of our oceans, lakes, and rivers is immense enough to find balance. When man tries to control something, it requires work and education to do it. It's not as simple as just drop a fish into water and watch it swim.


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I would be somewhat more liberal with fish selections for an 80 gallon aquarium. As a general rule of thumb, I would recommend 4 or 5 fish in an 80 gallon aquarium, depending on size and behavior. 

There is a nice selection of fish which remain under 5 inches in length, which is about the maximum size fish you would want to consider. Most fish from the Dwarf Angel genus, Centropyge sp., would be a nice centerpiece. Many of the Clownfish, Damsels, Blennys, or Gobies would work nicely. There are species of Wrasse which stay small. 

A select number of Butterflyfish stay relatively small. Your Long Nose can reach 9 inches, which is oversized. If you are serious about the challenges this family of fish presents, then consider a Teardrop Butterfly. They are relatively hardy and usually only reach 5 or 6 inches. 

The Kohl Tang only reaches about 6 inches. Several Pufferfish stay small. There are even a couple of Lionfish species that stay in this size range.

You are limited, yes. You can't keep large Angelfish. You can't keep Tang s from the Zebrasoma or Acanthurus genus. Triggers, Groupers, etc will all get way to large.

Posting back in 2 months is of no use. I'm sure your fish will be fine for a couple of years. However, with some slight changes you can post back in 7 or 8 years and be very proud that your fish are still healthy.


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

thank you pasfur your last post was very helpful, what pufferfish stay small in specific? They would eat my cleanup crew though right? I think in a couple of years I should have the money and the time to upgrade tanks, I was freaking out because bettababy was making it sound like my fish were going to die in months, thanks guys for all your help, I know I was difficult but I do truly appreciate both of your help.


----------



## melo (Feb 27, 2008)

Would a christmas wrasse work in my tank? He wouldn't eat my starfish or hermit crabs would he?


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Although you can find Pufferfish of size that will fit in your tank, they are going to cause problems for you cleaning crew. Your crabs and starfish would be at risk. Pufferfish are only suited for fish only aquariums.

I've never kept a christmas wrasse. However, they should be provided with a layer of sand on the tank bottom because they bury themselves at night and when threatened. They have a reputation as an extremely sensitive fish. You can probably find a better selection for your tank.

I think the original topic has outplayed itself on this thread. You may want to post a new topic for additional compatibility questions.


----------

