# Is this to many fish for this tank?



## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

I am either going to get a 46 to 55 gallon tank maybe even 75. Will it be enough room for 2 to 3 clown fish, 1 dragonette, and 1 yellow tang?


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## cp5041 (Oct 29, 2006)

if you wanted the tang i wouldn't go less than the 75. and depending on the type of clownfish you may not be able to keep more than one unless they are a mated pair. but two clownfish a dragonette and maybe another medium sized fish instead of the tang should be fine in any of those tanks. If your just doin a FOWLR tank instead of a reef you may be able to add more depending on what size tank u get


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

I am new to this what do you mean by a FOWLR tank. I know for sure I want one maroon clown and then I was think 2 orange and white clowns.


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Discusgirl18 said:


> I am new to this what do you mean by a FOWLR tank. I know for sure I want one maroon clown and then I was think 2 orange and white clowns.


FOWLR stands for Fish Only With Live Rock.

Basically means you don't add any corals, polyps, etc.


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## cp5041 (Oct 29, 2006)

one maroon clown will be fine in anyone of those size tanks. also if you are new to the hobby i wouldnt recommend a dragonette because they are so difficult to feed. they eat only copepods that usually come from your live rock or live sand. i wouldnt even think about adding one untill the pod population has had a good chance to mature and multiply.


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## caferacermike (Oct 3, 2006)

As was mentioned, as beautiful as mandarins are..... not a good choice.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

Do not buy a mandarin, it will slowly starve to death over the course of many weeks. They will exhaust the pod population quickly, and will be nearly impossible to feed. They are a difficult fish to care for, and only do well in large, large tanks despite their small size, which leads to misconceptions about their requirements.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

Well heres what i am buying and and could you tell me what fish could go in this and be ok. Thank you so much for the help!
75g saltwater aquarium used,2 heaters,complete test kit,hydrometer,rena filstar xp3 filter canister ,Standard lighting,About 75lbs of fiji live rock,
60 lbs of fiji live sand,2 rocks with brown mushroom polyps on them,
peppermint shrimp, plus a couple snails.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

ok so heres what I decided to do I am just going to start off with a 10 gallon tank. So this is what I have live sand, live rock, heater, and a filter what else will I need. I am going to have 1 clown fish.


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## Andrewprime1 (Jan 4, 2008)

You should get a Hydor Nano power head if you are thinking of having any coral. you will need the water movement.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

K is live sand better than crushed coral or is crushed coral good too?


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## cp5041 (Oct 29, 2006)

id prolly do half live sand half aragonite. you dont have to use the live sand but it can help seed the tank with more bacteria for the nitrogen cycle and you may get a small population of pods from the sand.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Long term the live sand is going to be a much better choice and easier to keep that size of a tank stable. You won't get the biological filtration from crushed coral, and I notice nobody has mentioned yet that the smaller the tank size in saltwater the more difficult it becomes to keep stable and healthy. 
Everyone has given awesome advice to you thus far... and I would still add the power head even in the 10 gallon, just make it a small one so it's not over powering. The better your circulation the easier it will be to keep this size of a tank healthy. Rio puts out a decent line of power heads that are not unsightly to look at and have many size options. I have used these in saltwater for many years, and I've been very happy with them.

If you get 1 clown for a 10 gallon be sure it's ocellaris only... and just the 1. That is all you will fit into the tank for fish. Ocellaris is the smallest of the clowns, and the females still reach up to 5 inches full grown.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

So today I went to a pet store and found a really cool Item that just came out and its made for small salt water tanks. Its called blue water and is a product that has everything already premixed in it. Its $12 for a 5lbs bag. They told me u could put fish in the tank as little as a week after setting it up. So I am kind of looking into doing that.


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## cp5041 (Oct 29, 2006)

ive never heard of the stuff but before you add any livestock make sure your params are all stable and stay that way then add livestock very slowly. what exactly is this stuff.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I've never heard of it either, and I have to ask... who makes it? What are the ingredients listed?
Anyone who tells me there is enough of something to put the fish into the tank safely after only a week, especially with saltwater... makes me wonder how much of my money they're trying to steal. Blue water, green water, plain tap water... the point is, it still has to cycle. 
The only product I know of that reduces cycling time and actually works is a product called BioSpira. This is a heavy concentration (liquid) of live beneficial bacteria, and it is put in with the fish... but only within reason. Too much ammonia or put in too long after the fish and high ammonia will kill the bacteria, which only makes for more of a mess in the end. 

The best thing to have right now is patience... 
What can you tell us about the blue water product?


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

I dont know much I havent done any research all I know is the lady at the pet store said its a brand new product.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I would be very leery of it until I knew what it was. My suggestion to you is to find out about it before trusting in it, or her. Most stores will push a new product without finding out for sure if it really works... which makes the customers the guinea pigs... at the customer's expense. There is too much to lose to risk something like that... as I stated before, no matter what is in it for combination of chemicals, that tank still has to go through the cycle, there is no way to avoid that. Putting fish into an uncycled saltwater tank... putting anything alive in an uncycled saltwater tank is asking for trouble right from day 1. 
We in this forum stand firm in our beliefs because we know from both education and experience about this stuff. Some of us, like me, do this for a living, and it is our career. We understand just how much there is to lose, and after working in this industry for so long, I have seen the things that stores do and customers don't know about. You wouldn't believe the stories I could tell.. If you decide to use this stuff without knowing for sure what it is and how it is supposed to work, I would call that very irresponsible, and tell you to expect to spend an awful lot of money on your tank and animals, and also expect to do a lot of unnecessary work. We don't advise you to slow down, be patient, or learn about something first just to make you wait, I promise. lol We do it because we really care about what happens to you and your new pets. These animals have nobody to look out for them if we don't... and its easy to make a real mess in a 10 gallon nano very quick if you don't follow some basic procedures. The first most important of those procedures is in cycling the tank before adding animals. In aquarium keeping patience is most definately a virtue!!


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## SKAustin (Aug 1, 2006)

I'll second the information/advice posted by Dawn. 

You really have to ask yourself, what is it that they are claiming to have in that package?? Are there live bacteria in the contents? If yes, which ones?? Most of these "Cycle Booster" products do not contain the proper bacterias for a proper, natural cycle. Then ask yourself, If this product is said to contain "live bacterias", the proper bacterias, then what steps have been taken to ensure the bacterias are still living once they reach the consumer? Is the bag being refrigerated to keep the bacterias in a hibernative state? and most importantly *does the packaging display a packaging date and/or shelf life date?* if there is no shelf life, then there are no living bacterias, or at least no guarantee that they are still alive after they reach the consumer.

Chances are, if this product works, it needs to be referigerated and put into use within a reasonable amount of time. If it doesnt, then dont waste your money. Remember, in this hobby, only bad things happen fast.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

So today I went to the pet store again there are two differnt types "real ocean water" The other one is called "blue water". I wrote down stuff that was written on the box is says 100% natural, phosphate free nitrate free, ph 8.3, puriefied natural sea water straight from the pacific ocean.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Ok, I made some calls and have been all over the internet, and while I still haven't found anyone who has heard of "blue water" (I need to know what company makes it) what I did find was Nutri SeaWater, a product of Nature's Ocean. I have talked to people who have used this stuff and I have received mixed reviews. The one common complaint was about how soon it allowed you to add the animals, and how if there is an ammonia level that is too high, the ammonia actually kills some of the bacteria in the product, making the product less effective. The product doesn't warn about that, and doesn't give any indication of what "too high" really is. The advice I was given by everyone was to add animals very slowly (no more than 1 every 2 wks) and to make sure the water in the tank is 100% Nutri SeaWater. Apparently something in tap water also causes the product to be somewhat ineffective... I would have to assume things like chlorine, fluoride, and some of the sodiums found in tap water would have some type of effect on the organisms in the mixture. 

I can't stop you from trying this stuff, but again, I will repeat my warnings... your tank will still have to cycle, and in a tank of that size the risks are a lot higher. If this stuff should cause a problem, 75 gallons is a lot of water to "fix" later. A 100% water change would likely wipe out any animals already in the tank at that time, and considering how expensive saltwater fish can be... You're going to really want to be careful.

Can I ask, for my benefit and that of the other members here... will you please post the name of the company listed on this product? There should be something on the packaging, and if there isn't, then for sure you don't want to buy it. You will want a number to contact in case something goes wrong... especially working with a product that nobody else seems to have ever heard of. I also did notice that your list of ingredients didn't mention anything about beneficial or nitrifying bacteria... which are what is needed for the tank to cycle. Were those listed anywhere on the packaging that you saw? 

One last comment... if you are really interested in spending the money on a product that will really work for you to help speed up cycling, there is one... but for a 75 gallon tank it would be quite expensive (about $60 - $70 for 75 gallons). The name is BioSpira. This is the product I explained about in my last post. I have seen it work if it's used properly, but there is still the risk involved due to ammonia levels. The timinig has to be just right or it can cause more harm than good. The fish have to go into the tank immediately after adding the BioSpira, and it has to be enough fish at once to feed enough of the bacteria to find balance. In a 75 gallon tank this would require buying and adding 4 - 6 animals (not corals) to the tank at once, which also can get quite expensive. Here's the catch to it: If you add the product too long before the animals, the bacteria starts to die off due to lack of food (ammonia) to feed it. If you add the animals too long before the product, too much ammonia builds up and instead of feeding the bacteria, the ammonia overwhelms and kills it. In both situations the end result is about the same. The bacteria dies instead of reproducing, and the ammonia levels are lethal to the fish. To fix this would require daily water changes (which gets expensive due to having to add the salt) and that means premixing the saltwater at least 24 hrs before using it... (premixing the saltwater before using it for water changes is mandatory in keeping saltwater aquariums and animals healthy)

I'm not trying to convince you to not try new products, just to please do it in safe ways. Knowing about it (everything) and how it works, what could happen if it doesn't, and how to fix things if something goes wrong are all things that should be given attention to *before* trying somethinig like this "blue water" product.

Also, when you buy your complete test kit, be sure you also have calcium and phosphate tests. Seldom are those sold as a part of a kit unless you buy a master test kit which will include every test imaginable, and will waste your money on things you don't need. Calcium is the one test that many saltwater beginners forget and is so very very important to have.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

real ocean water is a petco brand.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

I went to petco website and I got info and some costomer reviews.
Real Ocean Water is natural sea water that's already filtered, sanitized, and pH balanced.

No mixing. No measuring. No adjusting. Just pour Real Ocean Water directly into your aquarium. It's the easy way to maintain salt water fish.

Catalina Water Company has been providing natural sea water to pet stores since 1988. During that time, thousands of salt water aquariums slowly switched from synthetics to natural sea water. The results are healthier marine life and cleaner, clearer water. Now, you can have natural sea water delivered right to your door. It arrives ready-to-use in a sealed bag inside a protective box.

Phosphate free. Nitrate free. pH balanced at 8.3.

You Gotta get this stuff Date: December 24, 2006 

"I purchased ten gallons for my 55 gallon tank and the minute I got home I drained off 10 Gallons from my aquarium and put it to the test. In less than ten hours my fish( a purple tang) Got his beautiful colors back and seems to notice the difference right away. I love this product because I don't have to mix and I think my salt mixing is awful. I plan on buying all my aquarium water this way from now on. I can't wait to get the whole tank done and start doing corals and more live rock. I dreaded the thought of adding more pets because I was afraid I would hurt them. Tank you Catalina Water you are a Godsend." 

SIMPLY THE BEST !!!! Date: May 20, 2006 

"I just recently set up a small saltwater tank and did much research before hand. I decided since I was a novice with saltwater and that this product was rated so good , I would start out using the best. I'm very pleased with this and my clown fish are very happy too!! It's really worth the money when you consider that you need not test it or anything. I use it for partial water changes and will never use anything else!! Water is absolutely crystal clear. Don't even consider using anything else!!" 

Honestly.. Date: August 15, 2007 

"This product is THE best for any saltwater enthusiest! I put fish in the tank 2 hours after filling the tank up. No mixing no measuring.. it cant get any better than this! I've been buying this product for over a year, and I will not buy anything else.. seriously try it, you will not regret it!"

Catalina Water Date: May 28, 2007 

"I think this water is a great product and I'm happy Petco carries it. All test were dead on with a perfect salinity of 1.024 and high Alkalinty of 12 dkh. All in all, very pleased with this product. Only issues with water is low Calcium levels which I tested to be about 360 ppm and price is a little high, I remember 2 years ago when it was $8.99 in the store and it's now $11.99. Still worth the money, especially if your in a jam and need water for a quick water change." 

Theres a lot more reviews too but dont wanna post all them.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

No testing needed? UUhhhmmm.... I hate to break the bad news, but when you're dealing with saltwater, whether you mix it yourself or not, it still needs to be tested regularly for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, calcium, and spg/salinity still needs to be checked to keep it in balance. 

As I just explained in another post, when dealing with a marine tank, there will be times that freshwater needs to be added without salt to maintain a stable spg/salinity. Every tank will deal with some level of evaporation, and every tank will do this at a different rate, even within the same house. When you're talking about saltwater, the water evaporates but the salt does not. If you only use permixed saltwater to do maintenance, you spg/salinity will end up way off the chart, which also means sick or dead animals. 

In everything that was mentioned, there still is nothing said about bacteria, and without that... the tank still needs to go through the nitrogen cycle. This sounds very similar to that Nurti SeaWater, and while it can be useful, I still wouldn't rely on it to instantly or almost instantly cycle any aquarium. I wonder what the expense would be to use only this sea water to fill a 75 gallon tank? If only using partial sea water, with that volume of water involved, I can't see how it could possibly do much of anything to cycle a tank so quickly. 

I stand on everything I've said thus far... I would be very leary and very very cautious.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

I am only doing a 10 gallon tank. NO 75 gallon I know I will have to do testing and wait for it to cycle. It just seems like it would be easier to use this product for such a small tank. I dont want to go out and spend lots of money on a huge tank till I try out a smaller one first and see what its like.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Discusgirl18 said:


> I am only doing a 10 gallon tank. NO 75 gallon I know I will have to do testing and wait for it to cycle. It just seems like it would be easier to use this product for such a small tank. I dont want to go out and spend lots of money on a huge tank till I try out a smaller one first and see what its like.


Actually, if this were freshwater, that would not be a bad idea. For saltwater, however, the smaller the tank the harder its going to be, and the more work it will be, also. Unless you are content with mostly corals and maybe 1 - 2 tiny fish that stay tiny.. there isn't much else you can do with a 10 gallon salt water tank. 
In saltwater, the bigger the tank the easier it is to keep stable, the more room for animals (most saltwater animals will need pretty large tanks), and the least amount of work (provided it isn't overstocked). I have seen a number of people try saltwater in as small a tank as they can, and find out too quickly that it's more than they can handle. In 10 gallon expect to do daily water changes, (at least 3 times/wk at very least) expect to have to manually skim it with paper toweling daily, and expect to spend more time searching for animals that can stay in it for any amount of time, especially if you want more than 1. Nano reefs are awesome, but the primary animal is going to be corals...


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

I am only doing one little clow fish no coral or reef just plain live rock and whatever decides to grow on it. I already have 3 freshwater. So I wanna try something differnt.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

That sounds fine, so long as you are prepared for the amount of work a 10 gallon saltwater tank will require and so long as you understand that your only clown fish choice would be ocellaris. The other species of clown get too big for that size of a tank.


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## Discusgirl18 (Oct 12, 2007)

Yeah thats all I am getting is one of those clown fish. I am going to be putting at least $100 into the tank. I have the tank I just need some items. Thanks for all the help and everything.


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