# is this a good stock?



## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

29 gallon tank-
2-angelfish
6-lemon tetras
6-corys
1-albino bristlenose pleco
2-aquaclear 50s, moderately planted, 50% water changes weekly. if i had to remove something then itd be the lemon tetras, and i do not care if the angels eggs get eatin.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Compared to most, this stocking plan shows restraint and thought, especially with regard to compatibility in water preferences and biotope. A couple years ago I would have really liked it. I would like it better if you moved all of that to a 55-60-75 gallon and bumped the number of cories and lemon tetras up to about ten each. Or if, in the current tank, the angels were replaced with a pair of Rams, possibly or Keyhole Cichlids. 

Increasingly, I am hesitant to advocate strongly that any schooling fish belong in a tank much smaller than a 55 or at least 40-long because of their swimming style and requirement that more individuals are better than fewer.

I no longer think of neons, for example, as small fish; I think of them as a very large organism living in groups, usually, of thousands of individual bodies. While, in the past, I might have said it was fine to put a half dozen neons in a ten or fifteen gallon tank, I vow never to do so again. Same with cory cats.

Speaking of which, please select your substrate carefully for these guys (smooth sand, maybe), provide driftwood for the ancistrus and above all, target feed the catfish and focus on them when you feed. Trust me, the tetras and angels will push their way in, but I have seen way too much mysterious attrition among corys, mostly (I believe) because they are not fed properly. 

Most of us sprinkle a few flakes on top and walk away, never realizing that not much makes its way down where it can sustain a school of active little fish. Squirt some mysis or bloodworms down there with a feeding syringe, flake food or even pre-soaked small pelleted food. 

Remember, these are just my opinions. I have become more desirous to see schooling fish given the full treatment in larger groups and in larger tanks as I have matured. I feel we too often use them incorrectly because they are, individually, tiny, so they get stuck in schools of three (what is THAT about? a school of three? that's a jazz combo, not a school!!) in a ten gallon tank, when there should probably be upward of 75 of them rambling around in a 125. You know what I mean?


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

sidluckman said:


> Compared to most, this stocking plan shows restraint and thought, especially with regard to compatibility in water preferences and biotope. A couple years ago I would have really liked it. I would like it better if you moved all of that to a 55-60-75 gallon and bumped the number of cories and lemon tetras up to about ten each. Or if, in the current tank, the angels were replaced with a pair of Rams, possibly or Keyhole Cichlids.
> 
> Increasingly, I am hesitant to advocate strongly that any schooling fish belong in a tank much smaller than a 55 or at least 40-long because of their swimming style and requirement that more individuals are better than fewer.
> 
> ...


 yea i never do schools of less than 6 and if i can fit more i do. so are you agreeing with the stock or saying i should remove something? i feed my bottom dwellers shrimp pellets and algae wafers.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Yes, my preference would be to leave the Angels out. It's knowing that they are are going to be 6-7 inches long and 8-9 inches high that makes me say this. If this is the same 29 gal I have, it's only 18" high, right? 
It is something of an assumption that the angels you put in will be a pair, and if not, that they will get along as they get older, more territorial, more rife with hormonal moodiness. I believe a group of 6-8 angels is a safer bet, even after some of them pair up, but you would definitely be talking about a 75-90 gallon tank in such a case.

I'm not keen on the angel idea, but I would be a hypocrite if I told you I had not attempted and even spawned them in smaller tanks than this. However, my most successful experiences with them were in 55 gallon and up, with two or more pairs. 

You will probably hear from people who will disagree with me. I am fielding questions on this and other forums where the issues come back to overly optimistic stocking, so I have become somewhat conservative on the issue of space. 

I have a 29 gallon tank at work, with 12 rasboras, 2 loaches, 1 Flying fox, and a trio of Rainbows that are living out their "twilight years" as the last survivors of a 125 gal rainbow tank I kept several years ago. As I watch the rasboras, I believe their swimming behavior would be more organized and "pretty" in a bigger tank. The Loaches, because of their swimming style (serpentine and erratic) seem most at home. The Flying Fox and Rainbows definitely look like they'd appreciate a longer tank. For what it's worth, I keep my own swordtails in a 55, and when people aske me about barbs, rasboras, danios, and most tetras I say "go with a 40 long or 55. A 48" tank is so much better." I have never tried to keep barbs, even relatively small ones like checker or ruby barbs, in tanks shorter than 48".

I believe that some of the high-bodied tetras are okay in a 29, because they are not the non-stop swimmers that longer, more streamlined tetras are. So I think the lemons would be okay. Really the better choice over the angels, which, as we know is not what you want to hear. . .

As I said, my opinion. 

In any case, it will be a beautiful tank which ever way you go, so I will enjoy seeing it. . .


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I have to second the angel fish thoughts. There is simply not enough room for even a pair. Maybe a pair of rams. Have you thought about hatchet fish? They're pretty sedate. I'd probably increase those schools a little bit more.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

the angels are a definent. theyre already in the tank. see i bought some angels and was sent a lot more than i bought as extras and i didnt read the size of the wild crosses so theyre way bigger than my other angels so theyre in a 29 and now im splitting up my dimes and quarters into 2 different 55 gallons.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Are they a mated pair? If they are I'm not sure what you could have in such a small space with them, minus perhaps the bristlenose.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

i think they are. i havent seen any breeding behavior though so they could just be two angels that get along. ive heard corys were good tankmates since the have the spines to defend themselves and they stay at the bottom. im planning to have a big amazon sword in there and already have a variety of river rocks and other plants.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

I think it's so funny when people have already done something but couch it in the future tense: 

" Yeah, uh, hypothetically speaking, would it be okay to pop a couple angels in a 29 gallon with some tetras. Just, ya know, hypothetically, I mean?" 

And then no one agrees that it's a great idea. In this case, I think we agree it is an _imperfect_ but _possible_ plan, at least in the short term. 

Anyway, you made me chuckle-- because we have all done that! "Are you sure I can't keep a tigershark in a twenty gallon tank?? OMG, I already bought the shark!!!"

There's another thread or two in which the poster complains of angels biting her lemon tetras. Other forum contributors including Byron suggested that this was indeed a possibility. I have never had Angels injure other fish, except a small school of white clouds that got unceremoniously eaten. When I kept Angels with a small school of Bleeding Hearts I had the opposite experience in which the Tetras relentlessly nipped at the filaments of the Angels' dorsal and anal fins. And in another tank years ago, that same combination worked out fine. So there you go. I was one for two. How they will interact with lemon tetras is anyone's guess.

Yes, I think the corys will be largely ignored by the angels. I would be surprised if any or many fish pester or eat cory cats. I would imagine it would be like trying to eat rose thorns. I second the idea of keeping a larger group of them and remember to feed feed feed them!

Poor guy! It's been a rough day for you on the threads, huh?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Yeah, if I were you I would be hoping that they are NOT a mated pair.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

ill leave the lemons out. what would be a good number of julii or panda corys? if the angels look cramped or dont get along i will remove one and rehome it or just wait until my quarters catch up in size and move it to that 55.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

sidluckman said:


> I think it's so funny when people have already done something but couch it in the future tense:
> 
> " Yeah, uh, hypothetically speaking, would it be okay to pop a couple angels in a 29 gallon with some tetras. Just, ya know, hypothetically, I mean?"
> 
> ...


 i was just wondering on tankmates for the 2. i really am stumped on if theyre a pair or not. they dont guard a section or anything but they do swim together sometimes. maybe its bc they were raised together and shipped in the same bag. what do you mean rough day with threads? this is the only thread i posted today.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Well, how big are they? There's a certain size where they'd be sexually mature and you'd be able to tell better, if they're still technically babies you won't know for a while. 
Leaving lemons out is your best bet. I actually replied to a thread where one got bit by an angel today. I'd do as large of a cory school as possible and just leave out the pleco if I were you.  You could have a good sized group in a 29 with only the angels in there.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

theyre pretty big. way larger than quarter i dont know what size to call them. they are 2 and a half inches from nose to the beggining of the tail.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

so would 8-10 corys be ok? im going to get like 4 today and put them in quarentine.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

I meant we weren't giving you the answers you wanted to hear. Sorry. Sometimes that's how it goes. . .we mean well.

Those angels are just babies and still six months or more from knowing what they are.

I agree with Olympia (I most often do) that the more the merrier with cories. I was looking at a vid on YouTube of wild panda cories in the amazon, literally thousands, scouring the leaf strewn floor of a flooded forest. Then we say: these are schooling fish, so you need at least three. Come on! We ought to keep cories in 6 foot tanks and keep 50-75 fish. I mean, that at least would be a school. Three corys in a tank are just Curly Moe and Larry. So yeah, skip the lemons and do a dozen cory cats, just track down a small variety.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

im ok with the answers. the corys were the main reason i started the thread, are julii considered a smaller one? what about peppered? im pretty sure i wont be able to find pandas.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Those are both mid-sized cories, yup. Bronze are large, pygmies are tiny. I think the pandas are a tad smaller but the ones you said should be fine. The "Julii" Cory you see at most stores are actually 3 lined cories.

Heh. :-D
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Pygmaeus are downright tiny. Never have seen them for sale, or maybe I missed them because they are so small.
Is Paleatus the "peppered cory". I think that one is fairly small. At any rate, it is usually sold at a much smaller size than Juliis and others. Not that that helps.

Olympia and AllAboutFish: it is very cool chatting with you. I only recently joined and actively started contributing to this forum; you two made it very enjoyable. thanks.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I always shake my head when someone says "they (any fish) are a schooling fish so get 3." 

Yes, that is the peppered cory.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Mmmmm. I love this forum. :-D So many smarties in our party mix.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

That's My new pet-peeve, Jaysee! 

"What should I put in my 10 gallon?"

"How about neons? they're small."

It's the same fallacy. Small fish small tank, right? Wrong! A good hundred neons isn't a small organism. You got a tiny tank, get a betta or a paradise fish or a tiny freshwater puffer. Something that doesn't need the company of a hundred other fish and spend its life speeding around non-stop.

I like how you think!


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Small fish in a small tank isnt a fallacy, but like you said its not ONE neon that's the problem - its the school. If you can't keep a decent sized school in the tank, then you either need to get a larger tank or keep smaller fish. School size should not be what is compromised.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Those are both mid-sized cories, yup. Bronze are large, pygmies are tiny. I think the pandas are a tad smaller but the ones you said should be fine. The "Julii" Cory you see at most stores are actually 3 lined cories.
> 
> Heh. :-D
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


oh ok. yea i knew they were 3 lined. i like calling them juliis though


sidluckman said:


> Pygmaeus are downright tiny. Never have seen them for sale, or maybe I missed them because they are so small.
> Is Paleatus the "peppered cory". I think that one is fairly small. At any rate, it is usually sold at a much smaller size than Juliis and others. Not that that helps.
> 
> Olympia and AllAboutFish: it is very cool chatting with you. I only recently joined and actively started contributing to this forum; you two made it very enjoyable. thanks.


 i actually have an lfs that sales pygmy. i have 2 now. gotta wait till they get more in. i got a julii today. yes 1 i went to 2 petcos and a petsmart. petsmarts were overpriced and the petcos only had one  ill get more monday or tuesday.

your welcome!!! i love talking to people. ive only recently joined this forum but ive been on others for a year or so. i suck at stocking tanks though.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

will schwatzi or however you spell that be ok also? what sizes would be ideal? also could i do a 2 schools of 6? like 6 julii and 6 schwatzi or whatever?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

12 Cory's is too many for a 20 long - you are better off keeping a larger school of one species instead of 2 small schools.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

so how many juliis? i hope my lfs has some. petco has disapointed me.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

Got 6 pandas finally. Plan on getting 6 more. I love this LfsI found. Angels have been checking them out. Trying to watch for bullying so I can rescale if neccassary
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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