# Pearl Gourami with HITH, need advice.



## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

here is the required info... my questions are at number 13
Tropical Fish Keeping Diagnosis Forum Form:
1. Size of tank? 75 CAD Gallon
2. Water parameters a. Ammonia? .25 from the tap, sits always at .25 
b. Nitrite? Zero c. Nitrate? 20
d. pH, KH and GH? PH 8.2 extremely hard water
e. Test kit? ATP liquid, purchased Jan 2011
3. Temperature? 78 F
4. FW (fresh water)
5. How long the aquarium has been set up? Transferred from 45Tall October 2010
6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them? My aquarium profile is up to date with a current fish list.
7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)? I do not have a QT tank. 
8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants? Many fake plants, and one species of floating plant. 
b. Gravel bottom
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors? One piece drift wood, large hollow based pirate ship, lots of rock. Pics in Aquarium tab, “Dillon’s Tank”. 
9. a. Filtration? Eheim 2215 Canister, 
b. Heater? 200Watt Submersible 
10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used? 4 foot , double tube, 10,000K and Actinic. No timer, or set schedule.
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long? It is by a window, may get morning direct sun in one corner, ambient light. 
11. a. Water change schedule? Weekly, trying to stay on schedule!!
b. Volume of water changed? 25% to 33% 
c. TAP Water tested to be .25 ammonia on API liquid test kit
d. Water conditioner used? Big Al’s Aquarium Water Conditioner/de-chlorinator (blue bottle), and Big Al’s Bio-Support (yellow bottle). If the NitrAte levels get too high I add Big’s Al’s Bio Clean (red bottle)Organic Waste Digester. 
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed? Python used for all water changes, gravel cleaned each time.
12. Foods? Flake, Frozen blood worms, Algae Disks
How often are they fed? Daily in morning, sometimes flake at night, but I try to resist. 
13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms? YES Two weeks ago I posted a video of a Giant Danio with Bloat, it survived a week and died the same day that a Neon Rosy Barb exhibited signs of bloat. Rosy Barb died two days later on March 8, 2011. Since then NO fish deaths. However during all of this time frame for the last month one of my Pearl Gourami’s has a spot on its head behind it’s eye that is getting larger. It is a cavity and I believe it may be HITH. I have purchased Jungle Brand, Parasite Clear - Fizzing tablet treatment of 8 tablets, one tab for each 10 gallon. In light of the fact that I may be dealing with a parasite for the HITH and Bloat, and I have 8 Cory’s and Pleco and Raphael, should I dissolve the tablets in tank water first and pour the water back into the tank, or just drop them in. I don’t want to hurt my 8 Cory’s. It says it won’t hurt the Bacteria in the filters, also says I can repeat the treatment in 48 hours, if nec. How do I know if it is necessary? Do I need to remove the treatment after by carbon filter? It also states to do 25% water changes in between too which is no problem. The HITH is getting bigger and in light of the fact that I lost two to Bloat, can I treat the whole tank? I do not have a QT tank. 
b. Appearance of poop? Bloat victims no poop. the rest - normal brown. 
c. Appearance of gills? Normal but bloat victims rapid gasping. 
14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? No treatment yet. 
b. What meds were used?
15. Pics and Video, 1.0 the floating plant that I have in the tank. 
Video on Aquarium tab shows tank, ship and the Giant Danio with Bloat at the beginning, Since died on Mar 6th. Also video of the HITH on the Pearl Gourami. Access youtube to see the second video if nec.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Ok so I have treated the whole tank, I used 7 and a half tablets, for 75 gallons. I allowed each tablet to disolve in a tub of tank water and slowly introduced the treated tank water into the tank. I am concerned for my tiny Cory's but don't want to loose anymore to disease. Will do a 25 % water change Friday. Not sure if I need to do a second treatment, that should be Friday too... I'm not familiar really with HITH and whether the lesions will fill back in and disappear, or stay forever on the fish but just stop growing. I'm certainly not going to see a change in the lesion in two days!
Really now that's all I need from someone... to tell me what happens after treatment to the lesion? Any one had HITH and treated it ? Is this connected to the bloat? Should I treat again? It's not expensive to buy another set of tablets. 
The ingredients in this med are: praziquantel; N-[[(4-Chlorophenyl)amino]carbon 1]-2, 6-difluorobenzamide; metronidazole; acriflavine. Whatever that is. 
Thanks.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Sunday March 20/11 Update. 
No improvement, in fact the lesion has I think doubled and a couple of tiny pin head ones next to it. I swear I'm starting to see his bones inside. 
Mr Fishbert my Half Moon Betta is now in a temporary 1.5 Gal... sorry fishy!! It's temporary. 
My Pearl Gourami is in the 10Gal new Hospital Tank, (Betta's home) using API Melafix 7 day treatment, today is day one. 
Everyone in the 75 Gal is good.


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## Backer (Sep 18, 2010)

I don't know if anyone has suggested this, or if i am too late, but I have successfully treated HITH in dwarf Gourami's using Metronidazole. Just using the instructions on the package. I found it at Petland, it was a powder, it think the only thing it didn't say on the bottle that I did was NO LIGHT, while treating, or it inactivates it or something. It is worth looking into anyway.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Hi Backer. Thanks for the input. Yes that is one of the ingredients in this treatment. I turned off the light, and will see if this will work. At least it is an API product I'm using now rather than Jungle Prasite treatment which did not seem to do anything. Will that hole fill back in over time or just heal over? 
Do I need to put some carbon into my 75 gallon tank's canister filter to pull the old meds out? And if so how long should I leave it in there? 
I will keep updating over the next couple of days. He is still eating so that is good. Thanks agaiin.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

I should have mentioned also that the LFS was closed today and this was all Walmart had. The next nearest LFS is an hour away, so I will give this a try.


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## Backer (Sep 18, 2010)

In my experience the hole did clear up, leaving a colourless bump/scar tissue where it was, but my HITH wasn't as pronounced as yours is to date. I will keep looking at your posts but I can honestly say I've already given you most of the info from my experience now.

I wish you the best of luck,


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## Backer (Sep 18, 2010)

To the best of my knowledge I wouldn't put the carbon in there for now. Also, are any of your fish still exhibiting bloat? If so I once was worried about the same thing during my HITH bout so how I went about it in order to avoid medication mixing, is I fed the fish jungle brand anti-internal parasite food while I treated with metronidazole. 

Sorry for the extra post I was just re-reading your background info above. 

Good luck,


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

March 21 2011
Day 1 of new treatment. Jungle Hole In The Head treatment. The sore has doubled in size over the past week.... I'm really hoping for him. He is still eating!! and starving for company. Comes to the glass when I walk into the very quiet office his QT tank is in. Temp dropped to 78, limited lighting as well. 2nd treatment and water change set for Wed.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Well sadly my little gourami passed away last night. The lesion got really big, really fast in the last couple of days. So even tho I knew this was very likely the outcome of this... he didn't just disappear like other mysterious fish deaths we experience, so I had really hoped I could saved him. Probably should have started the final treatment sooner. I know we do the best we can at the time, but I hate learning at someone else's expense. 

He was one of those fish that come and visit you at the glass every single time you sit and look in.


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## Backer (Sep 18, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear that... Don't be too hard on yourself, we've all been there.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Yea, hole in head is one of those diseases that can hardly ever be cured... Last I read, they still don't even know what causes it...

I've heard everything from viral to genetic abnormality to vitamin D deficiency.

Sorry for your loss.


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## Backer (Sep 18, 2010)

I can second that statement. When I researched it was indesicive. I was lucky on healing mine. But I also caught it relatively early.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Andarial (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry Jakie T.T may your gourami rest in peace, hopefully the others are ok too


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Thank You everyone! I'm ok about it. I was in a way expecting it. The little buddy held out for so long tho!
Everyone else in the big tank is great. Even the last two Lake Kutubu Rainbowfish I got a month ago with ratty fins have grown lovely new fins top and bottom. 
Mr. Betta fish, Fishbert, (he is the only one I have named by the way) is back home in his 10 Gallon where it is much warmer than the little non-heated 1.5gal cube temporary home. Had to heat it with the 10gal's canopy lights. 
Thanks again!


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