# when is a tank overstocked



## pop (Aug 29, 2012)

Hello fellow members:
When is an aquarium overstocked? After reading the thread where the battle of the tank movers and who has the most fish between Tolak and candymancan just leaves me wondering when the state of an over stock tank happens. 


I am one of those characters that think a 55 gallon tank with three pearl gouramies and two cory catfish as reasonably stocked. One of the reasons I think this is adequate is because if I was one of the water critters I would want some room to move as well as easy maintenance.


When I think about an overstocked aquarium, my thoughts turn to question is the requirements for the water critter to thrive being provided. This provision would include such aspects as water quality, availability of proper nutrition, creation of chronic stress along with associated energy allocation including hormone release, suitable environment with the necessity of acceptable tank mates. 


So in your opinion how many fish would thrive in a 29 gallon tank with aquaclear 70 filter before the tank is overstocked? Would my 29 gallon be overstocked with 61 neon’s, would it be overstocked with 21 platies or 4 firemouths? Could I put 100 fancy guppies in there?
Your replies will be helpful for me to understand overstocking
Thanks,
pop


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## Roccus (Nov 1, 2013)

*I think that that is a really good question*

and I'm sure you are going to get a lot of answers.. some probably wont be too kind...... IMHO, the fish and water quality will tell you when enough is "enough" I base the actions of the fish and the quality of the water on my stocking... if they are acting natural and I can easily control the nitrates and phosphates I feel the stocking is fair... if the fish change their normal routine and become skittish, hovering in the corner or don't feed or act naturally.. there's a good chance the tank is over stocked ( or stocked with fish that don't belong together).. which goes hand in hand with.. if I need to do 2 or three water changes a week and the nitrates keep climbing.. I'm either feeding way too much or I'm over stocked... this will be a good thread to watch..


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm not understanding the question.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

These answers are assuming some experience in this hobby on how to reach this bioload properly. Also minimum 50% weekly water changes/cleaning and some live stem plants(hornwort or najas grass) in the tank.

61 neons: No
21 platies: No
4 firemouths: long term adults you will likely have problems
100 fancy guppies: No


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

pop said:


> So in your opinion how many fish would thrive in a 29 gallon tank with aquaclear 70 filter before the tank is overstocked?


Depends on the species, and their age. One might be too many if it's an 8" oscar, hundreds of fry will thrive if they're young enough. Put a sponge pre-filter on that AC70 for fry.



pop said:


> Would my 29 gallon be overstocked with 61 neon’s, would it be overstocked with 21 platies or 4 firemouths? Could I put 100 fancy guppies in there?


Yes, yours would be overstocked, because;



pop said:


> One of the reasons I think this is adequate is because if I was one of the water critters I would want some room to move as well as easy maintenance.


You are taking your personal human traits, and applying them to a fish. The world doesn't work that way. Imagine if it were switched, enjoy your daily ration of NLS! The maintenance aspect would probably be more than you would like as well. 

Much of what is called overstocking is more a situation of poor stocking, poor compatibility, a sub standard setup, poor maintenance, or a combination of all of those. In your mentioned stocking question, as a single species in a 29 all but adult firemouths would work, with the proper maintenance & filtration. Use half the amount of two, 30 neons & 2 firemouths, you have a compatability issue. Your stocking of ballpark 2 neons per gallon in a 29 won't work with 10 neons in a 5 gallon, sub standard setup. Your 100 guppy question would work in a 29, about 3 per gallon, a trio in a gallon jar wouldn't.




pop said:


> When I think about an overstocked aquarium, my thoughts turn to question is the requirements for the water critter to thrive being provided. This provision would include such aspects as water quality, availability of proper nutrition, creation of chronic stress along with associated energy allocation including hormone release, suitable environment with the necessity of acceptable tank mates.



This is exactly why stocking is half art, half science. A big part of any art is knowlege & a trained eye. If you want to stock heavily in a single species tank you'd better enjoy changing water, and watching the eating habits of individuals. In a heavily stocked tank with multiple species you'd need to know about target feeding, not to mention the nutritional requirements of individual species. Acceptable tankmates also comes into play with this, we've all heard of an aggressive livebearer or some such that are normally known for being fairly placid fish & fine for a community. I've seen a full grown oscar kept with large angels, really laid back individual, where other individual oscars were intolerant of most anything in, or at times near their tank. This is the art part that something scientific such as an online stocking calculator won't, or can't tell you.

Nothing in this world is perfect, aquarium stocking included. Life is full of backup plans, all cars come with a spare tire. If you're going to get into car racing you'll need to make some major improvements beyond what your daily driver has to offer. If your going to try going beyond what is usual & customary for stocking you need to have some hardware improvements and more equipment available, spare tanks & heaters, dividers, filters & so on. It will help to have something better than a bucket & vac for water changes. These are all part of a backup plan & equipment upgrades for folks who like to stock more heavily.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

I got a few years on me now and I just don't think its fair to answer that question so black & white, because its not. You'll always need to look at the fish needs & compatibility , look at the set up (heavily planted)?, the maintenance etc etc

Like your examples, I'd certainly not choose any live bearers in such a quantity and 29g, you put 100 guppy in there today and I think its safe to say you'll have 500 before you blink.
Or take the example the other way around, set up a 75g with 1 Piranha and 1 Betta, probably far from overstocked, but can bet ya it ain't gonna end well ;-)

Tolak really put it best: "stocking is half art, half science"


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## pop (Aug 29, 2012)

Hello Friends;
So far an overstocked tank is understood in terms of water quality and ways to enhance water quality by frequent water changes and adding plants and if I understand correctly the attitude of the fish keeper, each’s vision of the perfect setup.

These preset goals that are defined by each individual perception of the specific tank makes Tolak’s picture so viable and leaves me wondering if I should consider the ole school view of inch of fish per gallon and stock in the 29 gallon tank with 28 neon’s or I could make a commitment to change 10 gallons of water each week and increase the stock to 35 neon’s and not be overstocked, what if I add a significant amount of plants would it be feasible to increase stocking levels to 50 neon’s? Following the notion that stocking levels are directly connected to water quality and fish keeper’s perceived concepts that becoming a re-born fish keeper and embracing the use of a five gallon sump I should be able to safely increase my neon stocking level to 75 fish.

The problem for me with this singular view is there is no end when the tank is overstock. The notion of adding more capability to the biological filtering process along with frequent water changes and altering one’s perception of the point that overcrowding occurs provides the basis for increasing stock. Leaving me to conclude that stocking a aquarium is an infinite as long as the fish keeper perceives the stocking level is adequate and the correlated increase in capacity of the bio-filter to handle the bio load. 
The notion of target feeding was indicated as a strategy for increasing stocking levels and tempts me to consider nutrition as an aspect of stocking my 29 gallon tank. Will providing proper nutrition and necessary intervals between feeding allow increased stocking of water critters. Can mineral and vitamin deficiencies affect stocking? I feel now that with a change of mindset, proper nutrition, along with frequent water change, adding plants and increasing the capacity of the bio-filter I should be able to increase stocking level to100 neon’s.

If you agree with this proposition then say so if you disagree indicate why this notion is wrong.
pop


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

pop said:


> Hello Friends;


 Hello friend!  




pop said:


> So far an overstocked tank is understood in terms of water quality and ways to enhance water quality by frequent water changes and adding plants and if I understand correctly the attitude of the fish keeper, each’s vision of the perfect setup.


 Not attitude, but skill, in recognizing when a fish is uncomfortable, or behaving abnormally, which would be stress. There is no perfect setup, my setup in my mind's eye changes nearly daily.



pop said:


> These preset goals that are defined by each individual perception of the specific tank makes Tolak’s picture so viable and leaves me wondering if I should consider the ole school view of inch of fish per gallon and stock in the 29 gallon tank with 28 neon’s or I could make a commitment to change 10 gallons of water each week and increase the stock to 35 neon’s and not be overstocked, what if I add a significant amount of plants would it be feasible to increase stocking levels to 50 neon’s? Following the notion that stocking levels are directly connected to water quality and fish keeper’s perceived concepts that becoming a re-born fish keeper and embracing the use of a five gallon sump I should be able to safely increase my neon stocking level to 75 fish.
> The problem for me with this singular view is there is no end when the tank is overstock. The notion of adding more capability to the biological filtering process along with frequent water changes and altering one’s perception of the point that overcrowding occurs provides the basis for increasing stock. Leaving me to conclude that stocking a aquarium is an infinite as long as the fish keeper perceives the stocking level is adequate and the correlated increase in capacity of the bio-filter to handle the bio load.


 The inch per gallon stocking guideline is a starting point, helps keep folks new to this out of trouble. It allows them to gain the skill of knowing how fish are supposed to behave.
Bio filtration is easy, knowing the normal behavior of a fish takes practice. Abnormal behavior is when you have to change something, and it may well have nothing to do with filtration, or stocking.



pop said:


> The notion of target feeding was indicated as a strategy for increasing stocking levels and tempts me to consider nutrition as an aspect of stocking my 29 gallon tank. Will providing proper nutrition and necessary intervals between feeding allow increased stocking of water critters. Can mineral and vitamin deficiencies affect stocking? I feel now that with a change of mindset, proper nutrition, along with frequent water change, adding plants and increasing the capacity of the bio-filter I should be able to increase stocking level to100 neon’s.


 As mentioned, behavior. It isn't endless, if you've been watching the behavior of the fish, and something doesn't appear to be quite right after increasing stocking you have to change something. Your 29 is a 30" long tank, with 100 shoaling fish. A 30 is a 36" long tank, one gallon more water, but that extra 6" of length may mean all the difference in the world for your 100 shoaling neons. Any dietary deficiency will create stress, regardless of stocking. 
I'm glad you picked neons for your example. Some time back a buddy of mine was doing some importing. One of the species he got in were neons, 1400 small & 1200 medium. Smalls went into a 125, mediums went into a 125. That's a 6' tank, with 18" of room to turn around in. When you see that amount of fish shoaling across the tank endlessly, totally natural behavior, you know it's all good. You're looking at something like 9-12 fish per gallon. Does that mean you could put 300 neons in your 29? No, you don't have enough shoaling room. If it were 9" deep, and 60" long, sure, same gallons, double the footprint. 
These sort of things are the art part of stocking, learned by observing, it takes time, and hands on experience.



pop said:


> If you agree with this proposition then say so if you disagree indicate why this notion is wrong.
> pop


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I liken fishkeeping to cooking. If you've been cooking long enough you can taste a dish and know exactly what it needs. If you've been fishkeeping long enough you can look at a tank and immediately know exactly what _it_ needs.

As was said: Shoaling species require an appropriate footprint for long-term optimum health and all the machinations and twicks and tweaks in the world aren't going to compensate for that need.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I liken fishkeeping to cooking. If you've been cooking long enough you can taste a dish and know exactly what it needs. If you've been fishkeeping long enough you can look at a tank and immediately know exactly what _it_ needs.


I seriously like that, I really do. And it's not just taste with cooking, appearance, smell, sound, they all come into play. Yea, I like to cook. Not that you should go tasting your tank water, but perhaps the other senses can play in concert with just the visual, without us knowing it. 

With cooking you may notice a sauce needs thickening, something sounds like it's cooking too hot, and you adjust on the fly. If pressed at a later time as to what exactly you did while cooking, well you might not remember exactly, every step. Perhaps over time, with experience it works out the same as cooking with our tanks. Something memorable we'll try to document, the recipe, for cooking or aquatics. Something more routine we'll rely on memory, and adjust as needed. With cooking or aquatics, one person's routine might be another's wow how did you do that.


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## pop (Aug 29, 2012)

Hello friends:


Having experience and knowledge so one can predict expected behaviors and what these specific behaviors represent is a great tool for achieving optimal stocking levels. Unfortunately I lack this apparent innate knowledge of behaviors, which restricts my ability to predict water critters behaviors and leaves me to understand as long as the critter appears to behave in a typical normal manner then everything, is alright.

So I can safely add 20 neon tetras to my 29 gallon tank and after a soft accumulation experience while observing normal behavior along with enhanced filtration with living plants providing appropriate environment, I should be able to increase slowly the stocking levels to 40 neon tetras. 

Considering space the area needed for life sustaining processes to occur (tank footprint) may represent a ‘limiting factor’ in expanding the stocking levels to 60 neon tetras but the neon tetras are shoaling with minor incidents of aggression establishing each critters position in the hierarchy of the group.
I have two small questions regarding shoaling, will the fish in the middle of the shoal experience stress from being overcrowded and when the shoal changes direction will a specific fish lose their position in the shoal, such as the fish leading the shoal suddenly becomes the last member of the shoal when the shoal reverses direction experience under-crowding not being able to sense the presents of another neon (conspecific) nearby.

Stress has been mentioned as major factor in reaching optimal stocking levels. My understanding of stress is lacking in a similar way that my conception of normal fish behavior falls short to the innate understanding of most fish keepers. 
 What is stress in a fish? I have come to think of stress as a physiological response by a fish to changing environmental circumstances, which for a shoaling fish could be experienced … each fish in the shoal continually releases ammonia and carbon dioxide that are by-products of metabolic processes into the surrounding water. In a state of nature these polluting elements are quickly removed but in the closed system of aquariums. Ammonia is converted threw nitrification causing the pH to fall as does CO2, falling pH is mediated by consumption of the carbonate hardness of the water creating a constantly changing environment the water critters must adapt too.
{We all have learned most tropical fish can survive broad swing in pH yet for a fish to exist outside its preferred pH range requires the critter physiology allocate more energy to life sustaining processes and away from less necessary processes. This focusing of energy away from some process and towards other process that are life sustaining disrupts the fish’s state of homeostasis resulting in the symptoms of chronic stress.}

So if I add more neon tetras to the 29 gallon tank I may run the risk of developing chronic stress from the changing environment that is a by-product of the organization of the shoal.

Using that great cooking metaphor this sauce maybe hard to swallow, do you think I should add some turmeric or saffron. I could change the recipe to 15 platies and a lot of plants.
Pop

Cooking joke:


My wife and I eat like gods: every meal I cook is a burnt offering!

Every time I go near the stove the dogs howls!

I can’t cook. I use a smoke alarm for a timer!
Ha ha ha!!


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