# First Aquarium, Suggestions/thoughts



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Hello Everyone

I have finally managed to get myself an aquarium. It's a Fluval Roma 125 which is a 125 litre tank. I have setup the tank with the decor and just started the fishless cycle.






.

Apart from the decor, I have two live plants, one is Java Fern and the other Java Moss. I also put in a Interpet Airvolution AV3 air pump connected to two air stones and is very quiet, thankfully. I have got the ammonia level currently upto 2ppm. I'm thinking of using Tetra SafeStart and use Homebase Household ammonia as its source rather than fish. Fingers crossed as to how it will go .

Before I put in the ammonia, these are the water readings (tested with API liquid master kit):

NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 40-80 (troubling me, what should i do?)
pH: 7.6

After i added NH3, the readings are as follows:

NH3: 2ppm
NO2: 0
NO3: 40-80
ph: 7.6

Temperature: 27 Celsius

It's just been a day or two since i added NH3, but will add TSS today and leave it for 5-7 days before i test again. Hopefully, according to what i read 2ppm ammonia will not kill the TSS bacteria. Any suggestions always welcome.

Stocking:

I want to stock gouramis or angel fish, Guppies, Platys, Mollies, Neons (not if i have angel fish) and any algae eaters (red cherry shrimp any good?). I have read a lot about stocking size requirements, considering the adult size of the fish as a requirement and the like. I would appreciate your thoughts on the number of each species i mentioned i can have for my tank (125l - 33 US gallons). Please be considerate as i'm a newbie and i'm not planning to overstock my tank. Please also advice fish stocking on the basis of different areas of the tank

Thanks


----------



## pretzelsz (Jan 14, 2010)

Nice set up! 

Now if you are new for your stocking I would not suggest any gourami or angelfish. Neon tetras should not be with platys or guppies for they have different pH requirements. Judging on your pH platy, mollies and Guppies are your best bet. Now what I say is more plant's no ammonia...If you replace every one of your fake plants for a real plant and add nutrients then you do not need to wait for a cycle just add in the plants the fertalizer and wait a few days for them to get rooted. Then add a fish or two in. Plants will help with your parameters and under hte right light won't die and cause any spikes. I would suggest lowering the ammonia before adding more plants as they might die from it.

Good luck nice start by the way


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

A comment on the nitrate reading, since you asked. Using the API liquid test kit, the regent #2 bottle has to be shaken for at least 2 minutes before adding the drops to the test tube. The instructions say 30 seconds, but this will frequently result in a faulty reading and one that is higher than the actual level of nitrates. Shaking #2 for 2+ minutes should give a more accurate (and lower) reading.

Second, you should test your tap water on its own for nitrates. Also for ammonia and nitrite just so you know, although zero in the tank probably means the tap water is free of both. But nitrates in a tank with no fish at the beginning is most probably coming from the source water (tap water). Test that following my suggestion above and post the number. Then we can suggest any action if necessary; nothing to worry about, nitrate is tap water is somewhat common and can be dealt with.

Byron.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks guys for the replies.

@Byron -- Thanks for the 2+ minute shaking tip. I have tested my tap water for NO3 following your directions and the reading still came back as between 40-80. I might take a sample to LFS and ask them to test it for me. 

@pretzelsz -- I'm definitely going to get guppies, mollies and platys. But as far as i was reading, dwarf gourmai would be OK to stay with the above as dwarf's are very docile. As always correct me if i'm wrong please. The reason i wanted to get at least dwarf gourami or an agelfish (which i'm not getting) is i wanted a big enough fish in there. Also could you suggest on any algae eaters? I have read that red cherry shrimp are algae eaters, and my wife loves their colour.

I might not be able to get more plants as i did not add any substrate to the gravel. i only wanted to go with easy plants which i can attach to driftwood, as i'm still a beginner and dont want to worry too much about plant care and also to limit the expense. I read Anubias also grow on driftwood and if thats the case and if they dont need any substrate, then i would probably get them as well, but overall i'll not be having many plants in there.

Btw, i have also added the Tetra SafeStart yesterday and will take a reading in 5 days time.

Suggestions/advice please?

Thanks


----------



## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

neo83 said:


> i wanted a big enough fish in there.


I have platies and they are BIG. They have grown a lot from the size they were when I bought them. If you get them and they grow as mine have, I don't think you'd be disappointed. 



neo83 said:


> Also could you suggest on any algae eaters?


I like apple snails and have them in several tanks. Also, cories are great little fish. They are not exactly algae eaters (as I understand it) but they fossick around in the gravel. 



neo83 said:


> I read Anubias also grow on driftwood


From what I've just been reading, yes, that's right.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Thanks guys for the replies.
> 
> @Byron -- Thanks for the 2+ minute shaking tip. I have tested my tap water for NO3 following your directions and the reading still came back as between 40-80. I might take a sample to LFS and ask them to test it for me.
> 
> ...


On the nitrate, yes, get confirmation from the store; if it is that high in your tap water, then you should definitely use Prime as your water conditioner. Prime is to my knowledge the only conditioner that detoxifies nitrite and nitrate (as well as ammonia and chlorine/chloramines of course), and using this at water changes will avoid sudden nitrate spikes which can cause problems for fish. I would also change less rather than more water because of this. Water changes depend upon your tank: fish (number, size, type), water volume, live plants. Weekly water changes are in my view essential in most tanks; the volume of water changed can vary depending upon the fish/volume ratio.

On the SafeStart, this is good stuff, it is 100% live bacteria. But it needs "food" or the bacteria will die off within several hours. Food being ammonia and nitrite. I would use SafeStart when the first few fish go in the tank. Follow directions on the label. With enough live plants, this will not really matter, as plants consume ammonia (as ammonium) for their prime source of nitrogen, a macro-nutrient. With lots of plants at the start, a few fish would be fine; you will not even have a "cycle" that is detectable.

On the gravel, by substrate do you mean some sort of enriched plant growth stuff? This is unnecessary; plants will grow fine in plain gravel, I have that in my tanks and have for 20 years. You will need a liquid fertilizer for any type of plants, they need food (nutrients); Seachem's _Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium_ is in my opinion the best. Anubias like Java Fern attaches to wood or rocks. But these are very slow-growing plants. Some sword plants in the gravel would be good as easy plants.

On the gourami, check the profiles; the Honey Gourami would prob work better that the Dwarf Gourami, as it explains in the profiles of both fish.

Byron.


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I agree with Byron. The plants will grow in the regular gravel. The swords are very easy plants to care for, as well as the wendit plants those are two of my favorites the wendit comes in red, bronze, and green which is nice to add colors to the tank. Also if you want a floating plant which the honey gourami will appreciate Pennywort is very nice and also an easy plant.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Sorry about the late reply! I'm kind of having a bad day as my car broke down and left with a £270 bill . Anyways back to fish, 

@byron - Thank you. I'll have a look at prime and get it. gravel wise thanks for the explanation. As far as i have read, i always thought i needed additional substrate other than gravel to have any substrate plants. But now i'll look into more plants when i can afford them.

@calmwaters - thanks for suggesting additional plant types. I will certainly look into them and add them to the tank.

Some one suggested me to look at rams as well instead of gouramis. I have actually fell in love with GBR now, but my current pH level is 7.6, any chance i can have it or any other varieties?

Thanks


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

If you add a good size piece of driftwood it will help lower your Ph. You would need to do smaller water changes so as not to shock the fish with a big ph change. I would say 20% water changes weekly. I am sorry but what do you mean by GBR I just can't figure it out right now as my mind is a little fuzzy from some pain meds I am on.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Calmwaters said:


> If you add a good size piece of driftwood it will help lower your Ph. You would need to do smaller water changes so as not to shock the fish with a big ph change. I would say 20% water changes weekly. I am sorry but what do you mean by GBR I just can't figure it out right now as my mind is a little fuzzy from some pain meds I am on.


I already have three pieces of wood (drift or bogwood, dont know, how to identify?) but i'll find some more . By GBR i meant german blue ram  and the suggestion i got was, if they were locally bred, they should be able to adjust to the pH level i have


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Have you looked at the Bolivian Ram? I have had them and they are very similar to the German they are nice fish that have a personality. You can check out there profile in our fish profile section by clicking on there name. I am not sure if the germans would adjust that much or not.
Driftwood and bogwood are the same.


----------



## LisaC144 (Oct 22, 2009)

I LOVE my Bolivian Rams! Be careful, the GBR can be much more sensitive to water quality and does not adjust as well as the Bolivian Ram to pH flucuations.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Fantastic! thank you i'll look at the bolivian rams. i have heard that GBR's are more colourful than bolivian, but are bolivians really that colourless or only when compared to GBRs?


----------



## LisaC144 (Oct 22, 2009)

Juveniles are not as colorful, but they color up as they become adults. Not quite as exquisite as the GBR, IMO, but I still love them.


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

In my opinion what they lack in color they make up for in personality. ; )


----------



## LisaC144 (Oct 22, 2009)

100% agree with Amanda. They have some quirky personalities. I have 3 in my 120g and they are one of my favorite fish.


----------



## Ostara (Sep 19, 2010)

I would wait on the GBRs until the tank has been established with fish for at least a few months. Add some more plants (they'll do fine in gravel, though fertilizers will be needed) so they'll have a chance to grow a bit... rams love plants. Finding someone that has bred them locally is a great idea since they won't know anything other than your local water conditions. It's also important to find strong specimens; I've had four die on me from my LFS, which has weak and overbred stock that are nearly impossible to keep alive.

You could easily have a dwarf gourami as well, provided that you only have one (males will bicker with each other). I've keep them in similar or smaller communities containing neons, platies, rams, etc. without problems. I like having one dwarf gourami and several honey gourami, since the larger dwarfs seem to leave the little guys alone. Those are just my experiences though. Good luck with your tank!


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks a lot guys for your suggestions. I would definitely look at adding more plants and i fell in love with the rams, i'm more inclined towards the bolivian rams now since they are hardier than GBRs. Now, the hardest thing is to wait for the cycle to complete . Finally I have decided on the following fish. 

Bolivian Rams - 3
Guppies - 6
Platies - 6
pygmy cories - 6

and a couple of Mollies may be.

What do you think?

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Thanks a lot guys for your suggestions. I would definitely look at adding more plants and i fell in love with the rams, i'm more inclined towards the bolivian rams now since they are hardier than GBRs. Now, the hardest thing is to wait for the cycle to complete . Finally I have decided on the following fish.
> 
> Bolivian Rams - 3
> Guppies - 6
> ...


In a 125 litre (33 gallon) which presumably would not be longer than 3 feet, I would not go with 3 Bolivian Ram unless you can be certain of one male/two females. Three males would be in continual "battle" within the confines of a 3-foot tank. And sexing these fish is very difficult until they are somewhat mature, and stores usually have juvenile fish. Observing their behaviour in the store tank can sometimes guide you, as any fish that is constantly "pushing" the others away is likely a male, though my female also does this to her mate out of spawning. As noted in our profile, this species does very well as a solitary fish, and one in a 3-foot tank would be lovely. They grow to almost 4 inches.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> In a 125 litre (33 gallon) which presumably would not be longer than 3 feet, I would not go with 3 Bolivian Ram unless you can be certain of one male/two females. Three males would be in continual "battle" within the confines of a 3-foot tank. And sexing these fish is very difficult until they are somewhat mature, and stores usually have juvenile fish. Observing their behaviour in the store tank can sometimes guide you, as any fish that is constantly "pushing" the others away is likely a male, though my female also does this to her mate out of spawning. As noted in our profile, this species does very well as a solitary fish, and one in a 3-foot tank would be lovely. They grow to almost 4 inches.


Byron, apologies first of for not completely reading the profile. It was suggested to me to put 3 bolivian rams, but i should have read the profile and known better. Well, now i'm a bit confused as to what to get for the bottom and middle part of the tank. As guppies will take the top, Platys on top and middle as well and corys at the bottom. If i get a honey gourami, that would still be at the top level, which is already crowded. Can you suggest any other big enough fish to occupy the middle please?

Thanks


----------



## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

The problem I have is that my fish don't read the books like they're supposed to. My livebearers are all over the tank.


I wouldn't get a gourami-
1. They are calm fish, easily stressed by too much activity.
2. Gourami are upper-middle fish just the same.

Just try the guppies if you want and see if you need something in the middle.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Byron, apologies first of for not completely reading the profile. It was suggested to me to put 3 bolivian rams, but i should have read the profile and known better. Well, now i'm a bit confused as to what to get for the bottom and middle part of the tank. As guppies will take the top, Platys on top and middle as well and corys at the bottom. If i get a honey gourami, that would still be at the top level, which is already crowded. Can you suggest any other big enough fish to occupy the middle please?
> 
> Thanks


No apology needed. I keep pushing the profiles because a lot of work has gone into them and the moderator team is keen to get members using our forum resources.

I don't like suggesting fish to others too much, as my likes may not be your likes in fish. My best suggestion at this point is to browse the profiles, maybe the characins, cyprinids and catfish sections, to see if there are fish you like that will suit your water parameters, not get too big or be aggressive, and swim in the mid-to-lower levels. But don't leave out the idea of one Bolivian Ram along with other fish.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> No apology needed. I keep pushing the profiles because a lot of work has gone into them and the moderator team is keen to get members using our forum resources.
> 
> I don't like suggesting fish to others too much, as my likes may not be your likes in fish. My best suggestion at this point is to browse the profiles, maybe the characins, cyprinids and catfish sections, to see if there are fish you like that will suit your water parameters, not get too big or be aggressive, and swim in the mid-to-lower levels. But don't leave out the idea of one Bolivian Ram along with other fish.


Thanks Byron. I'm definitely not going to leave out bolivian ram, going to get one as i'm in love with them . Thanks for the list of other species. I would go through them and hopefully find a nice one.

@redchigh - thanks, i'm going to get one bolivian ram and see how the guppies behave. Also will look at the other species byron suggested and see what else i can keep 

Cheers


----------



## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

guppies are easy fish and ar easy to beed be careful with them because they will hybridize... Rams go nicely with guppies but ar terrartorial. I have a 38 gal tank and currently have six fish [died of old age] ... need to go to the local fish store.


----------



## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

*breeding guppies tips?*

how much for the fish


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron, would you recommend adding seachem flourish during fishless cycle? I only have one Java Fern and one Java Moss currently.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Byron, would you recommend adding seachem flourish during fishless cycle? I only have one Java Fern and one Java Moss currently.


Yes. Plants need "food" which is nutrients, and in a new tank with no fish they will not have any. While it is true they may "lasty" for some time, I believe in getting them off to a good start with nutrients. Has never failed me yet.

On the cycle, I never do. Waste of time. If there are live plants, they need ammonium as thier source of nitrogen and carbon (CO2), and fish produce sufficient of both (and bacteria produce CO2) so the plants grab it. Just don't overdo the fish compared to number of plants. Also, in a planted tank, or a tank with live plants, I would not recommend introducing an artificial source of ammonia.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

> On the cycle, I never do. Waste of time. If there are live plants, they need ammonium as thier source of nitrogen and carbon (CO2), and fish produce sufficient of both (and bacteria produce CO2) so the plants grab it. Just don't overdo the fish compared to number of plants. Also, in a planted tank, or a tank with live plants, I would not recommend introducing an artificial source of ammonia.


Ah nice, at least you dont have to wait to see fish in the tank then. I don't have a choice i guess except for doing fishless cycle as I have only two live plants . Hopefully my plants will survive the artificial ammonia during the cycle :-(

Thanks


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Have you already added ammonia? If not you could maybe just put one or 2 small fish in there just keep an eye on you water perimeters and keep up with the water changes as needed.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Calmwaters said:


> Have you already added ammonia? If not you could maybe just put one or 2 small fish in there just keep an eye on you water perimeters and keep up with the water changes as needed.


Yes, i have been cycling since 26/09/2010 and as of today 3-4ppm of NH3 is being processed by the filter in 24 hours, and NO2 is off the charts. pH is keeping stable at 7.6 for the time being. Hopefully not long to go. I looked at the Java Fern today carefully and looks like one of the leaf has some brown spots on it. Is this related to the plant not getting enough nutrients or not getting enough light? Hopefully my NO2 processing will soon start. *fingers crossed*


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Can you post a picture of the leaf?


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Calmwaters said:


> Can you post a picture of the leaf?


Sorry about the bad quality of the pic, its taken with the phone.









Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I really can't tell if that is spore development or degeneration of the leaf. No harm in leaving it, but if the entire leaf turns brown, black or yellow, cut if off. I can't see the rhizome--it is not buried in the substrate is it? The rhizome should be attached to rock or wood, but at the least not buried or it may rot.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> I really can't tell if that is spore development or degeneration of the leaf. No harm in leaving it, but if the entire leaf turns brown, black or yellow, cut if off. I can't see the rhizome--it is not buried in the substrate is it? The rhizome should be attached to rock or wood, but at the least not buried or it may rot.


Thanks Byron. Will keep an eye on the leaf. No, it's not buried in the substrate. It is attached to driftwood, as a matter of fact i bought the plant attached to driftwood. Btw, just wanted to know, how do you do plant maintenance. I mean cutting off the leaves and stuff, won't it make a mess in the tank? Wondering what's your method of cleaning your planted tank really.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron, you have been kindly advising me of having plants in the tank in this thread. I have a couple of questions. Is there any rough ratio on plants/fish stocking to get a good balance for an uncycled tank, wherein the NH3, NO2 produced by fish, fish food will be taken care of by plants itself? Also as per your advice, is Seachem Flourish the only product needed in my case, even when i have more plants, or do i need Seachem Flourish Excel as well?

Thanks


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

One more question . I'm looking at buying plants online, but there are three different ways in which plants are sold - individual, potted and leaded. Is there a desired or a recommended way out of those three and what are the advantages over the other?

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Thanks Byron. Will keep an eye on the leaf. No, it's not buried in the substrate. It is attached to driftwood, as a matter of fact i bought the plant attached to driftwood. Btw, just wanted to know, how do you do plant maintenance. I mean cutting off the leaves and stuff, won't it make a mess in the tank? Wondering what's your method of cleaning your planted tank really.


I do a water change once every week, about half the tank volume is changed (I have a lot of fish, more than would naturally balance the plants). I vacuum the gravel only in the open areas at the front, never back among the plants. I remove yellowing leaves (they occur now and then naturally) by just pulling/breaking them off. Always during the water change. That's it.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Byron, you have been kindly advising me of having plants in the tank in this thread. I have a couple of questions. Is there any rough ratio on plants/fish stocking to get a good balance for an uncycled tank, wherein the NH3, NO2 produced by fish, fish food will be taken care of by plants itself? Also as per your advice, is Seachem Flourish the only product needed in my case, even when i have more plants, or do i need Seachem Flourish Excel as well?
> 
> Thanks


The "ratio" is not easy to predict, as it depends upon the fish (what they are, size, how many) in relation to plants and water volume; I hope to explain this a bit better in my response below to your other questions. 

I consider no difference between "cycled" or "un-cycled" with planted tanks because from the start it is the same: fish and bacteria produce CO2, ammonia, and waste, and plants assimilate the ammonia (as ammonium, their preferred source of nitrogen) and the CO2, and bacteria convert the waste into organics for nutrients assimilated by the plants. We add fertilizer to ensure all nutrients are available, since some likely will not be without. In the presence of adequate light, plants will photosynthesize provided there is a continuous supply of nutrients. Nutrients being carbon (the CO2 primarily), nitrogen (ammonia/ammonium but also some nitrates), and the other essential 15 nutrients (most are added/supplemented via fertilizers). Once the point is reached at which any one of these is no longer available, plants can no longer photosynthesize. The aim is to create a balance; I never worry about too few fish, but it is possible to have too many. Regular partial water changes ensure the health of the fish whether or not this may be necessary in a given planted tank.

Algae is a reliable indicator if the balance is working; if the plants are using the available light and nutrients, algae will be present but minimal. As soon as the plants can no longer photosynthesize due to the lack of something, and if light is still present past this point, algae makes good use of it and increases.

Flourish Comprehensive is the only liquid fertilizer I know of that contains all essential nutrients--except of course for carbon and oxygen. Carbon comes mainly from CO2, although most plants (except for mosses) can also assimilate carbon from the bicarbonates in the water and they do so in varying degrees depending upon the plant and the CO2 available; once the CO2 is basically exhausted, many plants will also turn to bicarbonates if present. There is a lot of carbon present in most aquaria, more than many aquarists might realize. More is produced by the bacteria than the fish. I have had healthy plants growing in fishless tanks for months, with no source of carbon other than from bacteria and water changes; growth was much slower than in my fish aquaria, but the plants remained green and alive.

Excel is a liquid carbon supplement. I do not recommend using it because once you start increasing carbon, the other nutrients need to be increased to balance, along with the light. My method is to use minimal light, then add nutrients to balance. Plants will thrive, and algae will be present but not to excess.

The rate of plant growth can vary, since it is dependent upon the available light and nutrients. The more light and nutrients--provided they balance--the faster most plants will grow. But I see nothing wrong with slower growth; why burn out the plants? There is no advantage to faster growth aside from the appearance. Plants in their natural habitat rarely if ever look as lush as they do in our aquaria.

Byron.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> One more question . I'm looking at buying plants online, but there are three different ways in which plants are sold - individual, potted and leaded. Is there a desired or a recommended way out of those three and what are the advantages over the other?
> 
> Thanks


Potted plants are generally more expensive because they are (sometimes) larger. They should, theoretically, settle in faster when un-potted and planted. Normally only substrate-rooted plants are sold potted; stem plants usually come in a bundle of stems tied together.

I will buy potted plants when it is a plant I want and that is the only way of getting it. Otherwise I tend to buy non-potted because in stores they are less expensive--sometimes half, sometimes 1/3 the cost of potted. And it is the same plant.

If you look at the photos of my Amazonian tanks, almost all of those plants were bought as individual plants tied in a bunch of 2 or 3; only a couple were potted. Remove the tie, whatever it is (lead, elastics, etc) or the pot and as much of the rock wool as possible.


----------



## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I would also tank the plant species into account- Java fern (slow grower) and java moss (slow grower until adjusted) can probably handle the waste from 1 or 2 small fish, but I would introduce either a hardy stem plant (Hygrophila species and Ludwigea Repens come to mind) to act as a fast grower... That's just me though.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron, first of all, i can't thank you enough for your time and the answers to my questions. I'm currently doing the fishless cycle and wouldn't have done it if i knew the planted method is not hard, technical and expensive than the fishless cycle method. It's partly my fault for not reading enough about planted tanks. Well, i suppose you can understand, as a newbie, there is a lot of information to understand, digest and make a decision about that i wanted to keep things simple. I always thought plants would mean buying and maintaining a seperate soil/substrate in addition to the gravel, additional co2 injector, added cost of fertilizer, added maintenance and so on. But now that I understand more about it (thanks to you), i would have preferred the planted tank method. It's not too late now anyways. I'm going to get some more hardy plants and try them.

@redchigh - thank you. Yes, i'm considering getting more plants.

I'm planning to get the following in addition to one Java Fern and one Java Moss i already have.

Amazon swords
Crypt Wendtii
Hygrophila Polysperma

I have read that all of them are hardy and adjustable and two of them are fast growing as well. That would also give me a breathing space as well, since i want to be realistic about the situation i would be in if i get too many plants, me being new to this hobby. Any recommendations as to how many of the above plants i should get keeping in mind my tank is 125 litre and with the following probable stocking list:

1 bolivian ram
6 guppies
6 platys
? Apistogramma
6 pygmy corydoras

Thanks


----------



## iamgray (Jul 16, 2010)

I don't do anything special with plants but I'm a beginner too... I've had hornwort in my tank at work for a few months and i've never added anything, just have plain gravel substrate, and it's growing like crazy. I'm forever having to rearrange it and ball it up every time the tip reaches the surface of the water (which is great for babies to hide in if you're going to have livebearers).


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Byron, first of all, i can't thank you enough for your time and the answers to my questions. I'm currently doing the fishless cycle and wouldn't have done it if i knew the planted method is not hard, technical and expensive than the fishless cycle method. It's partly my fault for not reading enough about planted tanks. Well, i suppose you can understand, as a newbie, there is a lot of information to understand, digest and make a decision about that i wanted to keep things simple. I always thought plants would mean buying and maintaining a seperate soil/substrate in addition to the gravel, additional co2 injector, added cost of fertilizer, added maintenance and so on. But now that I understand more about it (thanks to you), i would have preferred the planted tank method. It's not too late now anyways. I'm going to get some more hardy plants and try them.
> 
> @redchigh - thank you. Yes, i'm considering getting more plants.
> 
> ...


You're most welcome. Agree, more plants. And I agree with redchigh's last comment that faster growing plants are better in new tanks. Swords fall into that category, as do stem plants.

You have a 150L/33g, from the photo it seem to be 3-feet in length, the same as my 33g. I would get 3 sword plants, assuming you mean the common "Amazon" sword like Echinodorus bleherae or E. amazonicus. They take a while to get settled, but eventually they will grow to the tank and reach the surface. One at each end sort of in the corner, maybe 6 inches out from the corner, and one somewhere between but not in the middle, too contrived. Behind a chuck of bogwood works well for this plant, and the leaves grow up in a fan behind and over the wood, as you can see in the photos of my 115g Amazonian Riverscape (those plants at the back are this species).

Crypts work well under swords as they (crypts) will grow very well in the shade of other plants. And the brown-red form of C. wendtii is very nice in contrast. Also, some pygmy chain sword would work with this combo.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> You're most welcome. Agree, more plants. And I agree with redchigh's last comment that faster growing plants are better in new tanks. Swords fall into that category, as do stem plants.
> 
> You have a 150L/33g, from the photo it seem to be 3-feet in length, the same as my 33g. I would get 3 sword plants, assuming you mean the common "Amazon" sword like Echinodorus bleherae or E. amazonicus. They take a while to get settled, but eventually they will grow to the tank and reach the surface. One at each end sort of in the corner, maybe 6 inches out from the corner, and one somewhere between but not in the middle, too contrived. Behind a chuck of bogwood works well for this plant, and the leaves grow up in a fan behind and over the wood, as you can see in the photos of my 115g Amazonian Riverscape (those plants at the back are this species).
> 
> Crypts work well under swords as they (crypts) will grow very well in the shade of other plants. And the brown-red form of C. wendtii is very nice in contrast. Also, some pygmy chain sword would work with this combo.


Fantastic! Just wondering if i can also get Hygrophila polysperma as its a fast growing plant as well along with the swords? Do you think mine being a comparitively smaller tank, both of them will overwhelm it?

Btw, do you recommend buying plants online and if yes, any specific online store you have had a good experience with, bearing cost in mind as well please?

Thanks


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

iamgray said:


> I don't do anything special with plants but I'm a beginner too... I've had hornwort in my tank at work for a few months and i've never added anything, just have plain gravel substrate, and it's growing like crazy. I'm forever having to rearrange it and ball it up every time the tip reaches the surface of the water (which is great for babies to hide in if you're going to have livebearers).


Thank you for your suggestion. Gives me a extra confidence when you say you never added anything and the plant is doing great


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

There are 2 places that alot of us use for our plants one is sweetaquatics.com and the other is aquariumplants.com they both are great places to order from but sweetaquatics has slightly better prices. Most the time I can order from them and even with the shipping its cheaper than what it is from the LFS also the plants are better quality.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Calmwaters said:


> There are 2 places that alot of us use for our plants one is sweetaquatics.com and the other is aquariumplants.com they both are great places to order from but sweetaquatics has slightly better prices. Most the time I can order from them and even with the shipping its cheaper than what it is from the LFS also the plants are better quality.


Thanks very much Amanda. Although i should have mentioned that i live in the UK . If you could suggest any from UK, i would appreciate it.

Thanks


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Oh opps sorry I don't know any over there. LOL


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Calmwaters said:


> Oh opps sorry I don't know any over there. LOL


That's ok, no worries. Hopefully someone will recommend


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

You should check out Practical Fishkeeping magazine, they have ads for UK plant stores and suppliers. I always buy plants and fish from local retailers. I like to see what I'm buying.

I wondered if you were somewhere other than the US when you mentioned Hygrophila polysperma earlier; I have heard it is no longer available (readily and/or legally) in the US because it has been released into natural waterways and become troublesome. I had it back in the 1980's. Yes, it is a fast growing stem plant. I'm not overly fond of stem plants, esp in smaller tanks, as you are continually pruning them, but they have their uses.

Vallisneria is a nice plant, suited to livebearers. Something floating would be nice, esp if there are fry as they hide in floating plants. Brazilian Pennywort (a true stem plant) works very well floating, and you can always grow it from the substrate as well and let it continue floating (though lower leaves tend to drop off then).


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks Byron. Will check the magazine . As per your recommendation, when i get 3 amazon swords and/or hygrophila polysperma, some crypt wendtii, some pygmy chain sword, when should i put in a few fish? Currently my readings as of yesterday are

NH3: 0 (processing 4ppm of nh3 in 24 hours, only testing at 24hrs)
NO2: 2
NO3: 5
pH: 7.6

Do i need to wait until the NO2 goes back to 0ppm as well and as its not recommended to put any artificial ammonia, shall i put 6 platys in there when NO2 is 00ppm as well?

Thanks


----------



## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I wish I could find some hygrophila polysperma... Hygrophila corymbrosa looks similiar if you have trouble.

I would wait to add fish until nitrites and ammonia read 0, or wait until you put some fast-growing plants. I wouldn't worry about overwhelming the plants... My 10 gallon has more plants. 

You will need to dose a liquid fertiliser (like flourish comprehensive) and the swordplants would appreciate some root fertiliser tablets placed in the gravel near their roots..

Just between you and me byron, the pruning is one of the reasons I like them... When I can sell/trade the pieces I prune off.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

redchigh said:


> I wish I could find some hygrophila polysperma... Hygrophila corymbrosa looks similiar if you have trouble.
> 
> I would wait to add fish until nitrites and ammonia read 0, or wait until you put some fast-growing plants. I wouldn't worry about overwhelming the plants... My 10 gallon has more plants.
> 
> ...


Thanks redchigh. I should be able to find hygro polisperma in the UK . That's what i thought about ammonia and nitrite levels as well, to make sure they are 0 before i add fish. Once i add all the plants i have listed, i can probably do a huge water change and since there are no levels of ammonia and nitrite present in my tap water, should be able to put in 6 platies. Does that sound good? I already seem to have ammonia processing bacteria in the filter, so hopefully the plants i'm adding, even when they are small should be able to support 6 platies. It's just my thought but i would really like to what you experienced aquarists think?

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Thanks redchigh. I should be able to find hygro polisperma in the UK . That's what i thought about ammonia and nitrite levels as well, to make sure they are 0 before i add fish. Once i add all the plants i have listed, i can probably do a huge water change and since there are no levels of ammonia and nitrite present in my tap water, should be able to put in 6 platies. Does that sound good? I already seem to have ammonia processing bacteria in the filter, so hopefully the plants i'm adding, even when they are small should be able to support 6 platies. It's just my thought but i would really like to what you experienced aquarists think?
> 
> Thanks


If you plant what we've been discussing in this thread (sword plants, stem plant, etc) you can add the 6 platies once you have zero for ammonia and nitrite. I would do major water changes, the entire tank (assuming no fish are yet in it) and plant it, then add the fish next day. Readings for ammonia and nitrite as high as you posted (assuming they are ppm) would seriously harm the fish. The plants will easily handle ammonia from the platies, but I can't speak for artificially added ammonia and would not risk that.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> If you plant what we've been discussing in this thread (sword plants, stem plant, etc) you can add the 6 platies once you have zero for ammonia and nitrite. I would do major water changes, the entire tank (assuming no fish are yet in it) and plant it, then add the fish next day. Readings for ammonia and nitrite as high as you posted (assuming they are ppm) would seriously harm the fish. The plants will easily handle ammonia from the platies, but I can't speak for artificially added ammonia and would not risk that.


Thanks Byron. There are no fish in yet and i will do a huge water change once the plants are in. Currently, NH3 is 0 but NO2 is at 2ppm. But i'll only introduce the fish once the levels are both 0ppm and as you say, a huge water change should clear out all NH3 and NO2 levels. I have had a very frustrating day today trying to buy plants from local aquatic stores. First of, they don't have a good selection and secondly, they don't know about what plants they have . I guess the only option i have now is to buy online. oh well . Added to that i'm not able to find any bolivian rams in nearby aquatic stores as well


----------



## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Show us pics when they come in. 
Sounds like a nice setup.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

redchigh said:


> Show us pics when they come in.
> Sounds like a nice setup.


Sure definitely. I have found a couple of aquatic stores and staff in one of them are very good and got some great advice. I should be hopefully getting the plants from them in a couple of days and hopefully be ready soon. Can't wait:-D


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Right guys, finally managed to get some plants, although couldn't get any pygmy chain swords yet. But the tank seems already filled up, well with the other ornaments in there, so might just get either a couple of more crypts (not green) or pygmy chain swords. Anyways, here are the pics. I changed more than 90% of water. I will check the parameters tonight and if both NH3 and NO2 are 0ppm, i'll introduce 4-6 platys.


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

It looks very nice.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks Amanda. Well, as you can see, i did not dare to go for any specific aquascape and all i wanted was to have some live plants in there so that i can see some fish in that tank. I had already spent a bit on the other ornaments in the tank, so did not completely remove them for huge bogwood, but had to remove all the plastic plants as there is no more room . It was an experience taking the plants out of the pots and then removing the rockwool gently. Live plants are a real joy to look at as well.

BTW, the amazon sword on the left hand side of the tank is right in front of the filter output (Fluval U3), although the filter is on gentle flow (spray) which is recommended for plants. I'm wondering if its still OK for that sword or not.

Thanks


----------



## LisaC144 (Oct 22, 2009)

Looks very nice. If I may make a suggestion though. Swords grow upward and outward pretty fast. If it were me, I'd move the left sword on the right over to the left about 6 inches to spread them out a bit and allow them to grow in full. Also, it's hard to tell from the pictures, but just be sure the swords aren't planted to deeply. With swords, you only want the roots buried and not the base of the plant where all the leaves meet at the bottom. If it is buried too deeply, rotting can start to occur. Otherwise, I think you're going to be VERY pleased once these plants take off! Well done!


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks very much for the suggestion Lisa. I will definitely check again in terms of whether only the roots are planted in the gravel as it was my first time and took a while to plant as well. So, might have pushed one or two in a bit. This means i might have to take out some water again . What if they dont have long roots though? Shall I use a rock to hold them, otherwise they are coming off the gravel?


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Right guys, Sorry I haven't been online for a while, got a bad cold. Although i replanted the deeply planted plants and added 4 platys. They seem to be doing well. I have been testing the water every day and both NH3 and NO2 are 0ppm (API master test kit). As noted before in this thread, my tap water has 40ppm of nitrates and the reading is same in the tank.

Also, to add more and probably most of you will kick me for this, but i also added 5 guppies (2 days after adding platys). I have been keeping a close eye on the tank and i dont know how much the fish get stressed but i'm very very stressed watching the tank, thinking always whatever the fish do is normal behaviour or not . Anyways, i'm sorry to say that one of the guppy suddenly died today . I really really don't know why. i have been checking the readings every day and both NH3 and NO2 are 0ppm. All of them have been eating well, havent overfed them. The guppy which died however was acting a little strange since i got him as he was constantly swimming against the filter water current near the surface . I have been closely looking at all the fishes for any red spots, white spots, anything out of the blue and cant spot anything unsual at least for my untrained eyes.

Also, one other thing is some of my plant leaves have brown spots or kind of shrunk on one side of the leaf (will add some pics soon). I have heard/read it happens when they were first planted in a new tank and they should be fine once they settle. I have dosed Seachem Flourish comprehensive last week and will dose it again this weekend. Do I need to prune the 'dead' leaves off and if yes, where should i cut them off? It's almost a week since i have added the pkants btw. Appreciate any help.

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Right guys, Sorry I haven't been online for a while, got a bad cold. Although i replanted the deeply planted plants and added 4 platys. They seem to be doing well. I have been testing the water every day and both NH3 and NO2 are 0ppm (API master test kit). As noted before in this thread, my tap water has 40ppm of nitrates and the reading is same in the tank.
> 
> Also, to add more and probably most of you will kick me for this, but i also added 5 guppies (2 days after adding platys). I have been keeping a close eye on the tank and i dont know how much the fish get stressed but i'm very very stressed watching the tank, thinking always whatever the fish do is normal behaviour or not . Anyways, i'm sorry to say that one of the guppy suddenly died today . I really really don't know why. i have been checking the readings every day and both NH3 and NO2 are 0ppm. All of them have been eating well, havent overfed them. The guppy which died however was acting a little strange since i got him as he was constantly swimming against the filter water current near the surface . I have been closely looking at all the fishes for any red spots, white spots, anything out of the blue and cant spot anything unsual at least for my untrained eyes.
> 
> ...


I'll have to see a photo before I can comment on the leaf issue. Any leaf that is dead should be removed, to avoid adding to the bioload in a new tank.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> I'll have to see a photo before I can comment on the leaf issue. Any leaf that is dead should be removed, to avoid adding to the bioload in a new tank.


Thanks Byron. I have added some plant pictures and can be accessible at this LINK. Apologies as some of the photos are not very good, but you shoiuld be able to see the damaged leaves. If they need to be pruned, could you also advice as to where exactly should i prune them please?

Also, did anyone have the guppy behaviour where he is constantly swimming against the filter current an inch under the surface?

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Thanks Byron. I have added some plant pictures and can be accessible at this LINK. Apologies as some of the photos are not very good, but you shoiuld be able to see the damaged leaves. If they need to be pruned, could you also advice as to where exactly should i prune them please?
> 
> Also, did anyone have the guppy behaviour where he is constantly swimming against the filter current an inch under the surface?
> 
> Thanks


Re the guppy, provided it can get out of the current if it wants to, not a problem. If it can't, it will wear itself out fighting a current 24/7. Fish sometimes swim into currents as it is a natural instinct to find food carried by the current, and since they cannot swim with the current or backwards, they have to be headed into it or they would be swept away. They should not be in a current all the time, as it is for most fish unnatural and stressful if there is no relief for them.

I don't see anything serious in the photos that I would worry about, subject to your answer to my next question. The brownish edges to some of the leaves, just along the edge of the narrower sword leaves--was this on the leaves when you bought the plants, or has it developed since you've had them from completely whole, green leaves?

Byron.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

> Re the guppy, provided it can get out of the current if it wants to, not a problem. If it can't, it will wear itself out fighting a current 24/7. Fish sometimes swim into currents as it is a natural instinct to find food carried by the current, and since they cannot swim with the current or backwards, they have to be headed into it or they would be swept away. They should not be in a current all the time, as it is for most fish unnatural and stressful if there is no relief for them.


Yeah, unfortunately the guppy which died seems to always swim against the current . May be it was stressed.



> I don't see anything serious in the photos that I would worry about, subject to your answer to my next question. The brownish edges to some of the leaves, just along the edge of the narrower sword leaves--was this on the leaves when you bought the plants, or has it developed since you've had them from completely whole, green leaves?
> 
> Byron.


Some of the leaves are turning lightish green. In relation to the leaf with brown edges, i definitely did not buy the plant with leaves like that. Most of them were green although some leaves had some brown spots/holes in them but very minimal. Also some of the leaves came with a brown tinge at the tip as well.

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Yeah, unfortunately the guppy which died seems to always swim against the current . May be it was stressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Existing leaves frequently yellow and die within a few weeks of acquiring a sword. As long as new growth is emerging from the centre of the crown (on the swords) the plant is OK. Once they really start to go, leaves can be removed; just pull the leaf downward at the base of the stem and it will separate from the crown; if it is browning at the base, the leaf is certainly dying; this can often be observed when the leaf is dying but is still mainly green. Again, new growth in the centre is what you want to see.

You have Flourish, use it once a week on the day following a water change; conditioners detoxify heavy metals and some micro-nutrients (iron, copper, zinc, manganese) are "heavy metals" and the conditioner will nullify them so no point in wasting Flourish.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> Existing leaves frequently yellow and die within a few weeks of acquiring a sword. As long as new growth is emerging from the centre of the crown (on the swords) the plant is OK. Once they really start to go, leaves can be removed; just pull the leaf downward at the base of the stem and it will separate from the crown; if it is browning at the base, the leaf is certainly dying; this can often be observed when the leaf is dying but is still mainly green. Again, new growth in the centre is what you want to see.


I have looked at the plants and removed a couple of completely dead leaves like you advised. I'll keep an eye on the crown.



> You have Flourish, use it once a week on the day following a water change; conditioners detoxify heavy metals and some micro-nutrients (iron, copper, zinc, manganese) are "heavy metals" and the conditioner will nullify them so no point in wasting Flourish.


Thanks for the advice. Just changed 20 litres of water from my 125 litre tank. Thought of changing 30 litres but then had a thought that the total amount of water will not be 125 litres due to other things in the tank. Am i right in assuming this and not changing 30 litres? I'll certainly remember your advice and use flourish the day after the water change.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Just changed 20 litres of water from my 125 litre tank. Thought of changing 30 litres but then had a thought that the total amount of water will not be 125 litres due to other things in the tank. Am i right in assuming this and not changing 30 litres? I'll certainly remember your advice and use flourish the day after the water change.


Not sure I follow this. A water change can be any amount of water, even up to 3/4 of the tank. I do 50% water changes on all my tanks every week, and they are heavily planted. Water changes are dependant upon the fish in relation to the volume--the type of fish, number of fish, if plants are present and how many--all this determines the extent of water changes.

When you dose Flourish, you add sufficient for the entire tank once a week. And I never worry about water displacement; my 90g tank obviously has less than 90 gallons, prob more like 70, but I dose for 90g. The slight excess is fine, but I wouldn't go above this.

Byron.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks Byron. I'll do the water changes based on the various factors and the water parameters.

BTW, i just added one male bolivian ram today to the tank with 4 platys and 5 guppies. Guess what? Platys seem to be constantly pestering the bolivian ram and i have seen the sunset platy trying to bite the ram . Is it just the ram is getting used to the tank and will soon put the platys in their place? I have never read anything about platys pestering rams and even a fresh google search didn't show me any . Weird!!!


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Any thoughts on the behaviour above?

Also, i'm not sure whether i'm being paranoid or not, but i have taken a video of my platys. Apologies that the video is not edited and also for the poor quality but i wanted to get a close up of the fish. Could you please check the video and let me know if there is any fin rot or fish ick? The fish i'm worried about are the silver/blue platy and the high fin red platy at the end of the video. Silver platy is a bit bulgy, can anyone tell if it's a male or female please? Also the high fin red platy is acting a bit wierd like staying at a particular place, although don't see any breathing difficulties and it's eating everytime i feed him. Also, it has been a bit a shy since the day i got him. The opinion i would be happy with would be that i'm paranoid and nothing wrong with the fish.






If anyone wants to check out my bolivian ram, below is the link. Please be advised that this video is a bit long and unedited as well, so apologies. I did not think about putting it online and shot it when watching the ram .


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Watched the video and did not see anything alarming. The 7.6 pH you posted in an earlier thread would suit the platy's and guppies and I would keep them at temp around 75 or 76 degrees. 
Would keep up with water changes weekly and would see that the fishes have some algae based foods or vegetable based foods for herbivorous fish.
I saw the fishes eating pellet's in one of the video's and would submit that pellets can expand inside the fish if they are allowed to eat too much and can cause digestive problems. A flake food for the platy's and guppy's such as Omega One Veggie Flakes or Spirulina flake along with occasional foods such as brine shrimp and blood worms could be offered along with Dapnia and food such as Ocean Nutrition's Omnivore formula.
I would not add any more fish to the tank for a couple weeks for the tank is still quite new, and in my view ,plants are not numerous enough to consume the ammonia created by too many fish just yet. 
Would also consider setting up a small plastic tub or ten gallon tank for quarantine for any new fishes I purchased.
I did see what appeared to be perhaps a small spot on the tail of one of the platy's that could develop into fin rot but if water parameter's are good and water changes are regular,It may heal without incident. 
Could have been caused by nipping by other fish or while netting the fish and will easily heal if water quality is maintained. Hope some of this helps.


----------



## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

Well, I'm no expert, but I can't see anything wrong with your fish. They look lovely. I didn't get a good enough look to see the sex. If it has a triangular anal fin it's a girl, if it has a pointy fin pointing backwards, it's a boy.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

1077 said:


> Watched the video and did not see anything alarming. The 7.6 pH you posted in an earlier thread would suit the platy's and guppies and I would keep them at temp around 75 or 76 degrees.
> Would keep up with water changes weekly and would see that the fishes have some algae based foods or vegetable based foods for herbivorous fish.


Yep, will surely keep up with the water changes weekly.



> I saw the fishes eating pellet's in one of the video's and would submit that pellets can expand inside the fish if they are allowed to eat too much and can cause digestive problems. A flake food for the platy's and guppy's such as Omega One Veggie Flakes or Spirulina flake along with occasional foods such as brine shrimp and blood worms could be offered along with Dapnia and food such as Ocean Nutrition's Omnivore formula.


I bought those pellets for the bolivian ram. When i feed, i first give the flakes which float on the water to distract guppies and platys and when they are busy eating, i drop the pellets for the ram. But those buggers are so intelligent that, they eat at the surface and then start following the ram scavenging the surface and eating the pellets as well. Before i got the ram, i also used to feed some boiled peas to them. Any ideas on how i can feed them effectively?



> I would not add any more fish to the tank for a couple weeks for the tank is still quite new, and in my view ,plants are not numerous enough to consume the ammonia created by too many fish just yet.


Tank wise, it has gone through so many phases. First i started off the fishless cycle with artifical ammonia and also Tetra Safestart (using artifical ammonia for it's bacteria, a bit of an experiment). I patiently waited for 17-18 days and TSS seems to have helped a lot actually as the tank was successfully processing 4ppm of ammonia down to 0 from day 8. Also the nitrites started to come down as well. When it was close to 18 days, i was stuck in the second phase of the cycle and during this time i was reading about the planted methods and how fish can be introduced if it's a heavily planted tank. I wasn't going to do/have the experience to maintain a heavily planted high tech tank, so i thought i would stop doing the fishless cycle, get 7 or 8 plants and put a few fish. I got them, did a big water change, used prime to detoxify any remaining nitrites, and after a couple of days added the platys. And then after some days, added guppies and finally added the bolivian ram on 24/10. During all the days, since i switched to planted, NH3 and NO2 both have been 0ppm and I have been doing water changes weekly. I'm just hoping that that the plants settle in, as some of the leaves are dying as part of their adjusting, although i'm seeing new growth from the crown. All in all i have been a bit lucky i suppose with the tank until now and hopefully it can be continued by maintaining good water quality as you suggested. I would surely wait a while before adding the fish (fingers crossed )

I would also like to get one more dwarf cichlid to go along with the bolivian ram and appreciate any suggestions. I'm going to get 4 otos in couple of months as well. I'll just probably have enough room for a shoaling species as i'm not a big fan of guppies anyways. Any suggestion on which shoaling species would suit my current stocking list?



> Would also consider setting up a small plastic tub or ten gallon tank for quarantine for any new fishes I purchased.


i understand how important this is, but not sure whether i'll be able to afford/maintain it. Would i need another filter and heater as well for this?



> I did see what appeared to be perhaps a small spot on the tail of one of the platy's that could develop into fin rot but if water parameter's are good and water changes are regular,It may heal without incident.
> Could have been caused by nipping by other fish or while netting the fish and will easily heal if water quality is maintained. Hope some of this helps.


That small white spot on that silver platy was the one which gave me shivers. That's when i shot the video so that i can get some advice from you guys. So, do you think that i dont need to use any fin rot medication just yet and just try and maintain the water quality for now? and yes, you have been very helpful, thank you.

@tanker: thank you. i'll have a look at it when i get home.

Thanks


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I agree with everyone else just keep up with the water changes and don't add fish for a few weeks. The tank and fish look very nice.


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I think feeding as you are doing is fine, I might move or place an item that the Ram favors as his ,to one end of the tank and drop pellets there while feeding flake at the other end. But the fish will always go where the food is.:lol:
I might consider Lemon Tetra's, Glowlight Tetra's,Pristella Tetra's, or Bloodfin or Silver tipped tetra's for a group of eight or nine to add to the tank. Would not add another cichlid but that's just me.
Quarantine tank does not have to be expensive, or maintained per se. You could purchase a cheap sponge filter and place this in your 125 Litre and let it run along with the primary filter and quarantine tank could be rubbermaid tub. You would need to purchase a small heater. 
When you need to set up quarantine tank, just add some water from your aquarium to the tub, move the sponge filter from your main tank to the tub,and place the small heater in the tub and you have an instant quarantine tank. By leaving the sponge filter to run for a week or two in your main tank before purchasing new fish,,the sponge filter will be seeded with beneficial bacteria and will process the waste from the new fishes so long as they are not too numerous.
For planted tank,,I might not run the sponge filter on daily basis in the main tank, but rather place it in the tank as mentioned, a week or two before you plan to purchase new fish.
Sponge filter such as HYDRO Sponge Filters would work well and are only around ten bucks.You may have to order it online if local store does not carry it or other type sponge filters. They all will work, and as described,,makes setting up quarantine or hospital tank relatively easy and quick. 
Is much cheaper that than treating a whole tank of fish with medications in my view.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Watched the video, agree with 1077 et.al. While the whitish spots on the black fins of the red platy are what appear to be from past nips, the fin should heal fine with good water quality as noted by others.

The Ram behaviour is absolutely text-book typical for this fish. His slight "nudges" at a platy now and then occurs normally, the Ram is simply asserting his dominance in the tank. A cichlid is a cichlid, and they expect to rule the tank. And on that, I also agree with 1077 not to introduce another into a 125 litre (33 gallon) tank. In a 4 or 5-foot tank, yes. The Bolivian Ram is an ideal single cichlid fish. Yours will colour up considerably once it is settled; I can't be certain from the video, but I think it is a male, which is even more reason to leave it on its own. They live up to 4 years and attain over 3 inches, so that will be more obvious as it matures.

Which brings me to the filter; can you divert the flow to weaken the current? I saw the platy fighting the current which drew my attention to it. Aiming it (it seems to be a spigot from the brief view in one of the videos, so hopefully it will rotate) against the end wall where the filter is will lessen the current. In a planted tank you do not want strong currents, unless there are fish requiring such (these don't).

And the plants I saw look fine.

Byron.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

1077 said:


> Quarantine tank does not have to be expensive, or maintained per se. You could purchase a cheap sponge filter and place this in your 125 Litre and let it run along with the primary filter and quarantine tank could be rubbermaid tub. You would need to purchase a small heater.
> When you need to set up quarantine tank, just add some water from your aquarium to the tub, move the sponge filter from your main tank to the tub,and place the small heater in the tub and you have an instant quarantine tank. By leaving the sponge filter to run for a week or two in your main tank before purchasing new fish,,the sponge filter will be seeded with beneficial bacteria and will process the waste from the new fishes so long as they are not too numerous.


Great, thanks for that. i'll definitely consider sorting something out although space is a big constraint at the moment.


> For planted tank,,I might not run the sponge filter on daily basis in the main tank, but rather place it in the tank as mentioned, a week or two before you plan to purchase new fish.


Any reason for not running it on a daily basis in a planted tank?



> Sponge filter such as HYDRO Sponge Filters would work well and are only around ten bucks.You may have to order it online if local store does not carry it or other type sponge filters. They all will work, and as described,,makes setting up quarantine or hospital tank relatively easy and quick.
> Is much cheaper that than treating a whole tank of fish with medications in my view.


Definitely. I'll try and get something arranged, more importantly some space . Thanks again for the advice.


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

It does not have to be a big container unless your getting big fish. LOL If there is a Petco near you they sell there tanks for a dollar a gallon so you could get an extra 10 gallon for $10 then you could just set it up when you need it then take it down after the quarintine periods just keep the sponge filter in the other tank when you don't need it.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> Watched the video, agree with 1077 et.al. While the whitish spots on the black fins of the red platy are what appear to be from past nips, the fin should heal fine with good water quality as noted by others.


Thanks byron. I'm posting a picture of the high fin red platy when i purchased it and suddenly realised that it's high fin used to be fine. But, if you see in the video, that fin is sticking to the body rather than staying up right. Do you think it must have been nipped or does it have any kind of disease? Probably the reason why it doesn't move around so much and only does while eating and does eat well.

Pic of platy when it's fins are upright. Sorry this is the only pic i have and hopefully you can zoom in and able to see it.










> The Ram behaviour is absolutely text-book typical for this fish. His slight "nudges" at a platy now and then occurs normally, the Ram is simply asserting his dominance in the tank. A cichlid is a cichlid, and they expect to rule the tank.


That's what is weird actually. what's happening is the other way around, actually what happened before in the early days, but dont see it anymore. A couple of platys were bothering the ram cichild, chasing it away . Two days back, i thought everything is settled in now and was waiting for ram to show who's the boss and again it got chased away by the two platys. Anyone came across this behaviour at all? Do u think may be, ram is getting adjusted to the tank and it'll show who's the boss soon and keep them in their place?



> And on that, I also agree with 1077 not to introduce another into a 125 litre (33 gallon) tank. In a 4 or 5-foot tank, yes. The Bolivian Ram is an ideal single cichlid fish. Yours will colour up considerably once it is settled; I can't be certain from the video, but I think it is a male, which is even more reason to leave it on its own. They live up to 4 years and attain over 3 inches, so that will be more obvious as it matures.


Do you mean don't add any other cichlid at all or any other ram cichlid?  i was thinking of adding either a krib or a keyhole or one of the apistogramma. If that's not recommended, can i at least get a female for the ram (yes, the one i have is a male). I'm so madly in love with cichlids, that i'll be very unhappy with only one . 

Also, i know that you dont like fish suggestions , but as 1077 suggested, do you recommend any other shoaling species apart from the tetras?



> Which brings me to the filter; can you divert the flow to weaken the current? I saw the platy fighting the current which drew my attention to it. Aiming it (it seems to be a spigot from the brief view in one of the videos, so hopefully it will rotate) against the end wall where the filter is will lessen the current. In a planted tank you do not want strong currents, unless there are fish requiring such (these don't)


 Filter wise, although the bottom output value is pointing to the wider part of the tank, the setting i'm using (Setting B on Fluval U3) actually usesthe spray bar, which is between output on the top and the output at the bottom you are referring to. This spray bar output is recommended for planted tanks and hence the usage. Even then, do you still think that's too much current?










> And the plants I saw look fine. Byron.


There are some leaves which are almost dying, so i'll prune them off tomorrow as it's the water change day. But as you suggested before, i did see some growth in the crown of the Amazon swords, which is encouraging. BTW, what should i do with the stem plants if any of the leaves die or get brown?


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Calmwaters said:


> It does not have to be a big container unless your getting big fish. LOL If there is a Petco near you they sell there tanks for a dollar a gallon so you could get an extra 10 gallon for $10 then you could just set it up when you need it then take it down after the quarintine periods just keep the sponge filter in the other tank when you don't need it.



Thanks amanda . i'm sure making this a hard one, aren't i?  I don't live in the US though, i'm in UK, although i should find something cheap hopefully .


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

No its not hard at all I just forget sometime everyone does not live here. LOL


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

neo83 said:


> Great, thanks for that. i'll definitely consider sorting something out although space is a big constraint at the moment.
> 
> 
> Any reason for not running it on a daily basis in a planted tank?
> ...


 In a planted tank without CO2 injection or product such as excel, CO2 exists at low levels as a by product of fishes ,and bacterial activity in substrate. Airstones that cause excessive surface disruption can allow CO2 to be driven off and plants then struggle .Best to keep surface disruption to a minimum during the day ,when photosynthesis is taking place but running the airstone at night would not harm anything in my view.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

1077 said:


> In a planted tank without CO2 injection or product such as excel, CO2 exists at low levels as a by product of fishes ,and bacterial activity in substrate. Airstones that cause excessive surface disruption can allow CO2 to be driven off and plants then struggle .Best to keep surface disruption to a minimum during the day ,when photosynthesis is taking place but running the airstone at night would not harm anything in my view.


Fantastic, thank you very much for the explanation. I normally switch on the lights in the evening around 5PM and switch them off before i sleep at mid night. When you say photosynthesis happens during the day, do you mean using the sun light/day light in the room or does it happen using the artificial tank lights i switch on during the evening? Hope it's not a stupid question, as i want to make sure i dont kill the plants, also i very seldom swith on the air pump. But, i do get concerned when i see some fish swimming up and down on the sides of the tank. oh well, i keep thinking always whether any behaviour from them is normal or if something is wrong :-D. Hopefully i'll settle in soon and watch them in peace


----------



## AaronCombs (Feb 26, 2010)

best solution for you, go buy two timers for an outlet. Plug your lights into one so every day it comes on and off at the exact same time. The other one plug your airstones into. but offset it, two hours after lights go off kick on airstones, two hours before lights kick on turn them off. Leave lights on for like 8 hours or so, the normal lighting your room gets should act as dust/dawn effect. 

That's how my tanks are setup. Except now I'm installing a dust/dawn lighting unit, turning the natural light off completely in the room (covering window).


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

There's so many different issues on-going in this thread it's hard to keep them in focus--at least for this old dude.:roll:

On the main filter flow issue: fish that naturally occur in slow moving streams and flooded forest should not be subjected to fast water flow from filters. They have to work harder and that wears them out (just like you having to ride a bicycle up a hill as opposed to level ground), plus it is stressful. Fish that need stronger currents are built for that, but this does not include the fish you have in your tank. So the least flow through the tank the better. We can't assume that fish "like" currents just because they often swim in them in our tanks; they may have little choice, plus they also expect food to be coming by in the current so there is an incentive for them to get in it. But this is still not natural or healthy.

On the sponge filter for the QT, I would simply place the sponge filter in the main tank and run it for a few days then disconnect it and leave it there. Bacteria will colonize the outer surfaces (running it a few days encourages this more quickly) as they do every surface under water. Then when you move it to the QT and start it, the bacteria are on it to consume ammonia.

Light. I agree with Aaron's suggestions. Fish do not need light and would be quite happy without it. But plants need it, so on an aquarium with plants the light must be sufficient for the plants without overwhelming the fish. And a timer is good because the fish and plants are used to a regular period of light and dark in nature--basically 10 hours of light, 10 hours of total darkness, and 4 hours dawn/dusk in between. You can adjust the "light" period either way, but I would not go below 10 hours of tank light unless there is real need (i.e., algae issues) to reduce it. Provided the nutrients are in balance, the plants will be fine. And "dark" means complete darkness, no room lights. And ensure there is light in the room when the tank light comes on and goes out, this will avoid startling the fish. Daylight or a room lamp will do, on 20-30 minutes prior and 20-30 minutes after.

Photosynthesis occurs in "daylight" which means when the plants are receiving sufficient light be it overhead tank lights or natural light (like in front of a window, normal diffused light in a room is not normally sufficient light). Sufficient light means adequate in intensity and duration; increasing one to compensate for too little in the other does not do it, there must be that balance.

In the video I spotted the "clamped fins" on the platy. I'm not expert on diseases, but I concur with other's advice to monitor and maintain good water quality.

On the cichlids, I would not add another cichlid of any species with a Bolivian male in a 33g tank.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

AaronCombs said:


> best solution for you, go buy two timers for an outlet. Plug your lights into one so every day it comes on and off at the exact same time. The other one plug your airstones into. but offset it, two hours after lights go off kick on airstones, two hours before lights kick on turn them off. Leave lights on for like 8 hours or so, the normal lighting your room gets should act as dust/dawn effect.


Thanks Aaron, got the timers already and set them up yesterday



Byron said:


> There's so many different issues on-going in this thread it's hard to keep them in focus--at least for this old dude.:roll:


Sorry! 



> On the sponge filter for the QT, I would simply place the sponge filter in the main tank and run it for a few days then disconnect it and leave it there. Bacteria will colonize the outer surfaces (running it a few days encourages this more quickly) as they do every surface under water. Then when you move it to the QT and start it, the bacteria are on it to consume ammonia.


Great thanks. i will hopefully arrange something soon



> Photosynthesis occurs in "daylight" which means when the plants are receiving sufficient light be it overhead tank lights or natural light (like in front of a window, normal diffused light in a room is not normally sufficient light). Sufficient light means adequate in intensity and duration; increasing one to compensate for too little in the other does not do it, there must be that balance.


thanks for clarifying that



> In the video I spotted the "clamped fins" on the platy. I'm not expert on diseases, but I concur with other's advice to monitor and maintain good water quality.


Thanks byron and to everyone who suggested to maintain the water quality. The red platy's high fin seem to be standing up a bit now and no longer staying clamped always, it seems to be moving a bit now. Definitely a bit of improvement and hopefully be its best soon.



> On the cichlids, I would not add another cichlid of any species with a Bolivian male in a 33g tank.


:evil:  :-( :roll:


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Hello everyone

The other day i got bored and tried my best to snap some pictures of the fish. Most of them are a bit blurry as the fish are fast moving buggers as you know , but there are some decent one's. Here is the link Picasa Web Albums - Praveen - Fish

BTW, which would you consider as the better shoaling species between 6-10 of harlequin rasboras and flame tetras?

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> The other day i got bored and tried my best to snap some pictures of the fish. Most of them are a bit blurry as the fish are fast moving buggers as you know , but there are some decent one's. Here is the link Picasa Web Albums - Praveen - Fish
> 
> ...


I still think that is a male Bolivian Ram; and you have some lovely sword plants.

If you want a fish that will remain together in a group, nothing beats rasbora. All 3 species in the genus Trigonostigma will remain in a group almost consistently. I have T. espei and T. hengeli now, and have had H. heteromorpha (the Harlequin) previously, and they shoal together well. Some of the other rasbora species also do so it seems to be inherent in the group.

Among the characins, the species of Rummynose are probably the best for shoaling. Hemmigrammus bleheri and Petitella georgiae certainly do; I've not come across H. rhodostomus so can't say. Cardinal tetra tend to remain relatively close, though they swim much less, preferring to remain within plants in dimmer light.

Byron.


----------



## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Very nice fish and plants. I also want to place my vote for harlequin rasbora I have them in my 55 and they are always together and I think there color would complement the bolivians very well.


----------



## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

Your tank is looking lovely.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> I still think that is a male Bolivian Ram; and you have some lovely sword plants


Yes byron, i got the male bolivian ram. The swords plants are coming along OK. The dwarf one behind the bridge has some dying leaves which i'll cut off this saturday, but i'm seeing some growth on the swords. The hygrophila has some brown leaves. Shall i cut them off? or how should i maintain hygrophila species?

Also, thanks to byron, amanda and tanker for suggesting harlequins. Actually i really liked them when i was researching about the shoaling species and when i actually saw them in the LFS. Hopefully will be getting them this weekend. Can't wait!!! :-D

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Yes byron, i got the male bolivian ram. The swords plants are coming along OK. The dwarf one behind the bridge has some dying leaves which i'll cut off this saturday, but i'm seeing some growth on the swords. The hygrophila has some brown leaves. Shall i cut them off? or how should i maintain hygrophila species?
> 
> Also, thanks to byron, amanda and tanker for suggesting harlequins. Actually i really liked them when i was researching about the shoaling species and when i actually saw them in the LFS. Hopefully will be getting them this weekend. Can't wait!!! :-D
> 
> Thanks


You're welcome. And yes, I would remove any brown leaves. A few won't hurt, but decaying leaves is adding to the bioload and I usually remove them during water changes when I see them just to "tidy up."


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks byron, i'll remove any brown dying leaves next time i do the water change.

I got the 12 harlequins. They got some nice red on them and look great when they are shoaling, although my guppies are nutters and they always try to break the shoal by swimming right through it. :evil: I just hate them. I don't know, may be so much of in breeding has caused it on guppies, but they are the fish i have seen least character in .

i'll try and post a video of the harlequins soon


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Right guys, youtube is playing up for some reason, so a delay in adding the video. 

In the mean time, i got a question regarding air stone. When the air stone is on and when the bubbles pop up at the surface, they normally spray/burst upwards and i'm a bit concerned about the spray going onto the lights. Is that an issue or is that safe enough? It really freaks me out and really puts me off from switching the air pump on.

Thanks


----------



## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

Does your light have a plastic cover over it?


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

tanker said:


> Does your light have a plastic cover over it?


yes, only the connections at the end of the tube is covered with a plastic casing like shown below









i'm using someone else's image, hopefully thats ok.

So can i stop being paranoid now? :-D

Thanks


----------



## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm no expert - someone more knowledgeable will hopefully come along. 

I would expect any light sold for aquarium use to be adequately insulated against water getting in. My current tank which came with the light has a plastic cover (like a sheet of plastic) over the light housing. I think the 35-litre I used to have just had the compact globe in there, without the plastic sheet. There does seem to be a usual amount of condensation on the lid and I'd expect the light to be able to deal with a bit of moisture. I don't think there's anything to worry about, but wait for someone better to reassure you. 

Does your air-pump have a selector to choose a lower pump speed? If so, maybe you could select the lower speed until you get some reassurance? Or get another air-stone that diffuses the bubbles more so that it doesn't splash up?


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

tanker;511465.
Does your air-pump have a selector to choose a lower pump speed? If so said:


> Sorry, the air pump doesnt have a speed selector unfortunately, although it has two outputs. Will have to think about the air stone as not sure how much that will help, but again i know nothing about the various types either . Thanks for your help


----------



## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

You can get different sized airstones. If you get a bigger airstone, the air from your pump should be more diffuse. The one I've got in my big tank is a long one that creates a little bubble "wall". You can get the long ones in different lengths, like this Amazon.com: Elite 12in. Long Air Stone - Elite A974: Kitchen & Dining: Reviews, Prices & more. If you had a long airstone, the air would be coming out over the whole length of the airstone and not just in a little clump like it does if you've got the ordinary sort of airstone. 

I'm not sure if this is the way to go, it's just a suggestion.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

There should always be glass between the water surface and any light tube/bulb. The danger is that water splashing up onto a hot tube could cause it to explode. And fish do jump, and hitting the tube may have the same effect but in any case the fish would probably die. The housing of the fixture itself may have protective this or that, depending. Most fixtures I have seen say a glass cover must be under the light. If the fixture is suspended high enough above the water, this becomes perhaps unnecessary. But there is still the issue of water evaporation. A lot of water evaporates from a tropical-temperature aquarium, and this water condenses on the glass cover and thus remains within the tank, or without a cover it dissipates into the room and into the walls and ceiling much like vapor in a bathroom without ventilation. Plus dust and stuff can get into the tank, and this is best kept out. Unless you have a tank that requires an open top due to the type, as with plants that extend above the surface or terrestrial plants that have roots in the tank, etc., I would cover the tank. You can get plain glass covers for standard size tanks, and the front panes slide back for feeding quite easily.

On the issue of the airstone, I've forgotten why you think this is necessary. ??

Byron.


----------



## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

Byron, I was thinking from the picture that this tank came with the hood on it and I'd assumed that the light was in there, like on my aqua one tank.


----------



## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Sorry to but in but my tank hasnt got a casing around teh bulb or ND Y GLASS BETWEEN WATER AND LIGHT? IS THIS A PROBLEM?


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

thefishboy said:


> Sorry to but in but my tank hasnt got a casing around teh bulb or ND Y GLASS BETWEEN WATER AND LIGHT? IS THIS A PROBLEM?


In my view, the actual light tube/bulb should have a pane of glass between it and the water surface. Hoods that are made for tanks usually have a piece of plain glass under the light. If you buy a light fixture to place across the tank with tubes/bulbs in it, there should be a glass cover over the tank; most manufacturers will say this oin the instructions. Either way, water will not splash or condense on the light tube/bulb but on the glass, and fish will not jump onto the tube/bulb.

In open-top tanks specifically intended as such, for instance a plaudarium or vivarium or with plants growing into the air, the light can be suspended above so the tube/bulb will not likely be affected with water.

Byron.


----------



## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Mine definatley doesnt have a casing.. But nothing bad so far..


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Sorry guys havent checked my post in a couple of days and have got so many replies. Thanks everyone.

Tanker - I have got a 6" airstone at the moment, like the amazon link you posted.

Byron, you are making me nervous now . The lid came with the tank and fits into place. The electrical part of the lighting unit is ofcourse built into the hood and covered, but it's the tubes which are not covered by anything except for a plastic casing at the terminals. So any water which evaporates or sprinkles because of the air stone will go direct to the tubes , although i have kept the bubbles to as low as i can.

The only reason i got the airstone is, since i have a bit of plants, i'm using the spray output mode on my filter Fluval U3, which is apparently suited for plants. So i'm hoping a bit of bubbles from the air stone would cause some surface agitation in turn maintaining the necessary oxygen levels.

In terms of the glass pane, i'm not sure even if i get one, it'll be able to slide in properly between the hood and the tank top edge . Anyone else have the fluval roma tanks with this issue?

Byron, on another note, my plant leaves have brown spots all over them? :-( help please!!!

Thanks


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Also, i'm planning to get an external filter, currently looking at either a fluval 305 or 405. Do you think 405 will be too much for a 125 litre?


----------



## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

neo83 said:


> The lid came with the tank and fits into place.


I'd contact the manufacturer and ask them about the safety of the hood arrangement. As I said before, you'd expect them to have a safe arrangement in prefabricated tanks as they are sold to be used the way they are designed. They have an obligation to sell a safe product. 



neo83 said:


> In terms of the glass pane, i'm not sure even if i get one, it'll be able to slide in properly between the hood and the tank top edge


If your tank is anything like my prefab tank, I don't think so. My tank with the glass covers has a ledge around the top of the tank which supports the glass lid. My other tank with the plastic hood has no support for a glass top. 

Another idea - how high is your water level? Maybe you could drop it a bit, if it's quite high.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Byron, on another note, my plant leaves have brown spots all over them? :sad: help please!!!


I need more info. What plant species to start with; and a photo of the entire plant would help.



> Also, i'm planning to get an external filter, currently looking at either a fluval 305 or 405. Do you think 405 will be too much for a 125 litre?


Unless you have need for more water flow due to the type of fish in the tank requiring more currents (some do, many do not), I recommend keeping the flow minimal in planted tanks. Plants and fish benefit. When selecting canister filters, I always buy the one rated for the size of tank. Then I use the spray bar to reduce the force, and I attach it across the end wall and aim it into the glass to further lessen the force directly into the tank. The filter intake at the opposite end of the tank creates a nice flow down the length of the tank which is usually adequate.

In the case of Fluval, the 205 is rated for up to 200 litres/40 US gallons. This would be the canister for your 125 L/33g. My 33g tank has a sponge filter which is adequate for the SE Asian Pond setup with very small still water fish. The Fluval 205 would allow more water movement, and again depending upon the fish you intend to have in the tank it should suffice.

Byron.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

tanker said:


> I'd contact the manufacturer and ask them about the safety of the hood arrangement. As I said before, you'd expect them to have a safe arrangement in prefabricated tanks as they are sold to be used the way they are designed. They have an obligation to sell a safe product.
> 
> If your tank is anything like my prefab tank, I don't think so. My tank with the glass covers has a ledge around the top of the tank which supports the glass lid. My other tank with the plastic hood has no support for a glass top.
> 
> Another idea - how high is your water level? Maybe you could drop it a bit, if it's quite high.


Thanks tanker, i'll contact Fluval and see if they can offer some advice and as you say, there is no provision to slide the glass pane between the hood and the tank.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks Byron for the advice. Here are some pictures of the leaves. I have amazon swords which are shown in the pictures below:

Picasa Web Albums - Praveen - Plant Brown S...

Also there is one picture of the Java Moss which has some whitish stuff on it. I may not be explaining it better, but i hope you can see there is something on the java moss. Is that any kind of algae?

I would appreciate if you could take a look at the leaves and kindly advice me. I'm currently dosing Seachem Flourish once a week, the day after the water change, as you advised. Shall I increase the dosing to b-weekly?

Also, appreciate the advice on the canister filter.

Thanks very much


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Thanks Byron for the advice. Here are some pictures of the leaves. I have amazon swords which are shown in the pictures below:
> 
> Picasa Web Albums - Praveen - Plant Brown S...
> 
> ...


I'm going to have to ask for more details. Some of the swords appear fine, a couple do not, but it may be old leaves. The JM has a problem, I thought it was poor growth (the bit at the front particularly) but it may be algae, there looks to be some brush algae, but I may not be seeing it clearly.

Can you provide info on light (type, how much, length of light period daily); water parameters (hardness, pH and temp); tank size. I got the bit about Flourish Comprehensive once weekly. Are any other products going in the tank aside from this and water conditioner? And how often and how much water changes?


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> I'm going to have to ask for more details. Some of the swords appear fine, a couple do not, but it may be old leaves. The JM has a problem, I thought it was poor growth (the bit at the front particularly) but it may be algae, there looks to be some brush algae, but I may not be seeing it clearly.
> 
> Can you provide info on light (type, how much, length of light period daily); water parameters (hardness, pH and temp); tank size. I got the bit about Flourish Comprehensive once weekly. Are any other products going in the tank aside from this and water conditioner? And how often and how much water changes?


Byron, you completely forgot about the tank you have been advising since the beginning . I'm just kidding, i know you advise so many beginners like me everyday .

It's got dual lights - one Fluval PowerGlo (20 watt) and one Fluval Aqua Glo (20 watt) (Is this T5 lighting?)
Lights are on for 10 hours a day
Tank size: 125l (33 US gallons)
Seachem Prime as water conditioner
Water changes weekly and around 25%
pH: 7.6
Temp: 25 C
Hardness: According to water supply company, its medium hard water (havent measured it yet  )

No other products going into the tank except for food.

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

You're absolutely correct, I don't remember:roll: and for the reason you mention.

I can suggest a couple of things. First, the light may be unbalanced with nutrients, i.e., too much light. A second Flourish Comprehensive dose weekly shuld help with this. But there is then the carbon (CO2). Each aquarium is different so this may be OK, but the light period may need to be reduced a bit, say to 9 hours. But I would do the twice weekly Flourish for a couple weeks first and assess the results before tampering with the light.

I can't say if the light is T5 or T8, but I would suspect the latter. It may say on the end of the tubes. Do you know the Kelvin rating for each? Going solely from the names (which can be very misleading) I would expect the appearance to be somewhat purplish, though this doesn't stand out in the photos. The issue with the JM I suspect is light and nutrients, I have seen similar in one of my tanks; moss does not do so well in harder water since it cannot use carbonates for carbon, so there may be a CO2 shortage that is not balanced with the light. Let me know about the K first.

Byron.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> You're absolutely correct, I don't remember:roll: and for the reason you mention.
> 
> I can suggest a couple of things. First, the light may be unbalanced with nutrients, i.e., too much light. A second Flourish Comprehensive dose weekly shuld help with this. But there is then the carbon (CO2). Each aquarium is different so this may be OK, but the light period may need to be reduced a bit, say to 9 hours. But I would do the twice weekly Flourish for a couple weeks first and assess the results before tampering with the light.
> 
> ...


Thanks Byron. Will certainly try out the bi-weekly dose and see how it goes. Shall i continure pruning the dead/dying leaves on the swords as i can see more leaves growing from the crown. 

I have just checked the lights and they are T8 lighting apparently. i do not see the purplish nature in the lights though, and to my eyes they appear as natural light although i do wear glasses . One is power-glo 20W with 18000K and the other is Aqua-glo 20W with 18000K rating btw.

Also, could you please explain what the brown spots mean. I mean does it correspond directly to increased lighting?

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Thanks Byron. Will certainly try out the bi-weekly dose and see how it goes. Shall i continure pruning the dead/dying leaves on the swords as i can see more leaves growing from the crown.


Yes, that is OK.



> I have just checked the lights and they are T8 lighting apparently. i do not see the purplish nature in the lights though, and to my eyes they appear as natural light although i do wear glasses . One is power-glo 20W with 18000K and the other is Aqua-glo 20W with 18000K rating btw.


Ah, there's a light issue here. Kelvin is the colour temperature of light; mid-day sun is somewhere around 6000K (going from memory). A lower K number means more red and less blue, and a higher K number means more blue and less red. Plants need red light as well as blue, so that is one problem. Too much blue will encourage algae which is not anywhere as demanding.

Measure the tubes end to end (not including the prongs) and look for daylight or full spectrum in those lengths in T8. GE, Phillips and Sylvania make these, calling them daylight or something similar; if they have a Kelvin rating it will be around 6500K. That is what you want, and you can get these at hardware stores for a fraction of the cost of "aquarium" makes, I have the Phillips on some tanks and the GE on another. The colour rendition of plants and fish will be different, much more natural than at present. You could put in one daylight and keep one of what you have if you like that appearance. Or two daylight, up to you. Over a 33g I think you would be OK with one of each. I only have a 25w full spectrum over my 33g and it is fine.



> Also, could you please explain what the brown spots mean. I mean does it correspond directly to increased lighting?


If you mean the brown ragged edges to some of the sword leaves, that is likely a nutrient issue. But if these are the older leaves, this is common when plants are moved to a new tank (from the store for instance). Swords (Echinodorus species) are heavy feeders; I have to dose Flourish twice weekly in my tanks or they quickly let me know they are not happy. Substrate fertilizer is very useful with these plants, a tab next to each plant's roots would benefit, but it is not essential. I have grown fabulous (in my view anyway) swords for years with only liquid fert.

Increasing nutrients and fixing the light should resolve this whole issue in my opinion.

Byron.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

also, another point worth mentioning is that the area i live has high levels of nitrate in tap water of around 40ppm . Do you think i need to use some nitrate removing products like JBL bio nitratex?


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> also, another point worth mentioning is that the area i live has high levels of nitrate in tap water of around 40ppm . Do you think i need to use some nitrate removing products like JBL bio nitratex?


Were it me, I would just use Prime water conditioner (as you said you do) since to my knowlege it is the only one that detoxifies nitrite and nitrate. That will handle the tap water on the water change day. live plants (you have lots) should handle things after that.

Is the reading of 40ppm yours or the water company's? I mention this because if you are using the API nitrate test kit, the bottle of regent #2 has to be shaken for 2 minutes minimum, not 30 seconds as indicated in the instructions, or you can often get a false and high reading.

I would check the tank nitrate prior to a water change, and then the day after, just to see any variance. Shouldn't be an issue, but it is best to make sure. Most fish will manage with 40ppm, though most of us suggest 20ppm as the maximum, and in planted tanks it is usually below 10ppm.

Byron.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks very much Byron.

The reading from the tap water according to the water board is 38ppm, although when i tested before, it was anywhere between 40-80ppm on API liquid kit. I'll test it again before the next water change. Yes, i remember the 2 minutes shake as advised by you in this thread before .

I have come across fluval life-glo with 6700K rating. That is closer to 6500K. would you think that'll be suitable?


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> Thanks very much Byron.
> 
> The reading from the tap water according to the water board is 38ppm, although when i tested before, it was anywhere between 40-80ppm on API liquid kit. I'll test it again before the next water change. Yes, i remember the 2 minutes shake as advised by you in this thread before .
> 
> I have come across fluval life-glo with 6700K rating. That is closer to 6500K. would you think that'll be suitable?


That's fine; by "around 6500K" I mean roughly 6000K-7000K, most manufacturers are 6500K, Hagen's Life-Glo is 6700K and Hagen make Fluval brand so that is fine. It's your call, Fluval may be more expensive than hardware store tubes, but either will be good.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> That's fine; by "around 6500K" I mean roughly 6000K-7000K, most manufacturers are 6500K, Hagen's Life-Glo is 6700K and Hagen make Fluval brand so that is fine. It's your call, Fluval may be more expensive than hardware store tubes, but either will be good.


I would definitely like to spend as little as possible, but the only reason i was looking at hagen is as we were discussing earlier, i dont have a glass pane to stop condensation on the lights. So if i get any other tube, will it be no problem in my circumstances or are they all same?


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> I would definitely like to spend as little as possible, but the only reason i was looking at hagen is as we were discussing earlier, i dont have a glass pane to stop condensation on the lights. So if i get any other tube, will it be no problem in my circumstances or are they all same?


The tube makes no difference. The issue I see is water getting on the hot tube and causing it to crack or break. All tubes heat up as they burn, and the tank water is cooler than the tube. There may be tubes out there that are specifically desinged to handle this, I've never noticed them if there are; all fixtures I've seen require a glass pane between the tube and water surface.

With sufficient space between the water surface and the tube it may be unlikely. Normal condensation is somewhat different, if you look at the tubes first thing in the morning you will undoubtedly find they are coated with water drops, as would be the glass cover or any tank hood. Warm water evaporates and condenses on anything and everything. Once the tubes are lit, the heat causes the water on them to evaporate, but this is slow and should cause no harm. It is water splashing onto the heated tube that is the danger.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> The tube makes no difference. The issue I see is water getting on the hot tube and causing it to crack or break. All tubes heat up as they burn, and the tank water is cooler than the tube. There may be tubes out there that are specifically desinged to handle this, I've never noticed them if there are; all fixtures I've seen require a glass pane between the tube and water surface.
> 
> With sufficient space between the water surface and the tube it may be unlikely. Normal condensation is somewhat different, if you look at the tubes first thing in the morning you will undoubtedly find they are coated with water drops, as would be the glass cover or any tank hood. Warm water evaporates and condenses on anything and everything. Once the tubes are lit, the heat causes the water on them to evaporate, but this is slow and should cause no harm. It is water splashing onto the heated tube that is the danger.


I'll contact Fluval and see what they advice. Also, the approximate distance between the maximum water level marking and the tube itself is around 1.5". So, not sure if that's a safe distance, but let's see what fluval say.

I have looked at the Hagen Life-glo and it's £17 which i think and as you said is a rip off. I couldn't find any Philips/Ge/Sylvannia or any other tubes for that matter near my work place. I'll check some stores over the weekend to see if i can get one of these brands cheaper.

BTW, Any suggestions on automatic food feeders btw?

Thanks


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

neo83 said:


> I'll contact Fluval and see what they advice. Also, the approximate distance between the maximum water level marking and the tube itself is around 1.5". So, not sure if that's a safe distance, but let's see what fluval say.
> 
> I have looked at the Hagen Life-glo and it's £17 which i think and as you said is a rip off. I couldn't find any Philips/Ge/Sylvannia or any other tubes for that matter near my work place. I'll check some stores over the weekend to see if i can get one of these brands cheaper.
> 
> ...


It appears you are in the UK, so check with your larger hardware/home improvement type stores; in NA we have Home Depot, Lowes, and similar.

I do not recommend auto feeders. They have been known to malfunction, either not feeding or dumping all of it. If this is due to absence from home, fish can last a week and longer without feeding if they are healthy (and not fry which need more food regularly to grow and develop properly). Or if you can get a trusted person to feed them, preferably another aquarist who will understand things and not be likely to overfeed.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Byron said:


> It appears you are in the UK, so check with your larger hardware/home improvement type stores; in NA we have Home Depot, Lowes, and similar.
> 
> I do not recommend auto feeders. They have been known to malfunction, either not feeding or dumping all of it. If this is due to absence from home, fish can last a week and longer without feeding if they are healthy (and not fry which need more food regularly to grow and develop properly). Or if you can get a trusted person to feed them, preferably another aquarist who will understand things and not be likely to overfeed.


Thanks Byron. I'll browse some hardware stores on the weekend. Feeder wise, i might not be getting anyone available unfortunately. If I have no choice, i might have to use one. So, will appreciate any recommendations.


----------



## neo83 (Sep 27, 2010)

Guys i have a quick question about my apistogramma viejita.

I have today seen a black clearly visible blotch on the viejita. It surely wasnt there before and only noticed it today. The only difference today is i have added a female apisto for the male. Is it some sickness or is it part of the show to the female (as it has never left the female till now and been following her showing off all afternoon)? Appreciate any help. The pictures are below:
















This is the video of the apisto and clearly there is no distinct black spot on it 




Thanks


----------

