# Help: ppm vs. dGH/KH



## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

So I FINALLY started getting all my things together for my new tanks again.
Part of the puzzle would be to figure out what water I have to determine what freshwater fish I want while its cycling.

Now I got an issue, my old chem set was JBL and measure in dKH and dGH, so I knew instantly what fish it would allow me (apart from the other needed parameters)
Now the new one is ppm...

So could anyone break it down for me how I can convert this or what I'm dealing with?
I have GH 25 ppm and KH 20ppm
And right now I have no idea what that compares to in dGH/ dKH and therefore NO IDEA what fish this allows me ~ What a nightmare 

Oh and pH is 6.8 which sounds pretty good to me at the moment.

Any help is appreciated.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

hardness and softness is realtaed to how low or high your ph is. maybe try looking online for a conversion table maybe.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

I do understand the relation and if I knew it in dGH/dKH I'd instantly be able to know what fish it allows me, just never have dealt with ppm in all these yrs.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

If you have dGH or dKH, multiply the number by 17.9 to obtain the equivalent ppm number. If you have ppm, divide by 17.9 to obtain dGH or dKH respectively.

Example, 3 dGH is 53.7 ppm.

Your 25ppm GH is just over 1 dGH, and your 20ppm KH is the same. Terrific water for SA or SE Asian fish. Mine is 0 out of the tap, pH also 6.8. With this low a KH, your pH will tend to drop once the tank becomes established.

Byron.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Byron's got the right conversion if you want to convert it back to degrees. 

Your not the only one either. I've got a older GH/KH test kit that measures in degrees. I know what the readings mean. I haven't figured out the ppm measurements yet.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

OK, now I can honestly admit I hadn't dealt AT ALL with water that soft, my issues before were always caused by too hard water....

Is that not too low for plants, I somehow recall something about ~4dKH ideally at the lowest, any ideas?


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Mikaila31 said:


> Byron's got the right conversion if you want to convert it back to degrees.
> 
> Your not the only one either. I've got a older GH/KH test kit that measures in degrees. I know what the readings mean. I haven't figured out the ppm measurements yet.


I think its annoying...I better find a kit that has ph, kh etc and in degrees....thou I wasn't able to find one so far :-(


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Angel079 said:


> I think its annoying...I better find a kit that has ph, kh etc and in degrees....thou I wasn't able to find one so far :-(


I have the API hardness kit (for GH and KH) and it is in degrees, with a conversion chart at the back of the instructions to save you doing the calculation though it is simple. I rarely use this kit, as I know the GH and KH of my tap water and I don't fuss over the aquaria, as I'll explain in my response to the previous question post.

B.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Angel079 said:


> OK, now I can honestly admit I hadn't dealt AT ALL with water that soft, my issues before were always caused by too hard water....
> 
> Is that not too low for plants, I somehow recall something about ~4dKH ideally at the lowest, any ideas?


No, this is not too low for plants or acidic/soft water fish. In fact, you're a tad better than me. I've had fish for more than 15 years and throughout my tap water has been zero hardness (KH and GH) and acidity is now at 6.8 although prior to 2001 it was below 6 out of the tap.

I have always had a small amount (about 1/3 a cup I think) of dolomite gravel in a small nylon bag in the top filter chamber. This has consistently "buffered" my water and the GH is at 1-2 dGH and pH remains at 6.0-6.2 and for years. I replace the dolomite maybe every year, not sure I need too that often, but...it is cheap. Just regular dolomite gravel as some marine and rift lake cichlid owners use. I am told that crushed coral and marble chips also work. Limestone rock will but the effect is significantly less as limestone rock takes a long time to dissolve whereas dolomite or coral chips/gravel is a bit quicker and a very little does the job. I mention this if you are concerned and want to raise the hardness a bit.

But as you can see from my aquaria photos, I grow lush plants in this very soft water, so there is no issue with that. Most aquarium plants come from very soft and acidic water (all the swords, crypts, aponogetons, floating plants,... and several of the stem plants) so this is natural for them. Some plants have a harder time in hard water (pun not intended), Vallisneria being one of a few exceptions because it is easier for this plant to extract carbon from carbonates. Bog plants like swords and crypts find this difficult and "prefer" soft acidic water. But there is some degree of variability and adaptability, probably moreso than with fish in my opinion.

Depending upon your fish, raising the GH a tad may be a good idea. Tank-raised fish probably are more accustomed to harder water, depending upon where they are raised. I have a number of wild caught fish, and the last thing they want or can tolerate is hard water. Cardinal tetras can live for more than 10 years in soft water like you and I have out of our taps, but those with hard water rarely have such luck with this fish. And there are many other species similar. In a couple of other threads recently there have been members lamenting the fact they cannot maintain the common blue rams because of their harder water; they are undoubtedly very envious of you and me who only have to turn on our taps to fill our tanks and have these beautiful fish spawning regularly.

Byron.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Thanks Byron!!!

Once they're established I hadn't tested in the past neither unless something appeared "strange" as far as behavior or plants looks etc.

API really, cause that's the brand I been looking at BUT I was unable to find hardness tests in the greater TN area or even online and the known pet stores. Where to you find yours????

I really wouldn't use these current results as "set" because there's no telling with the tanks set up, cycling etc what exactly the readings will be after all that.
For instance I love using the Eheim Substrat Pro as part of the filter media, have made very good experiences with it. It does not give me specific details what it actually is on the box, however they appear some sort of "rock" which is great for the bacteria growth, but I wouldn't know how far this will influence the hardness. 

I hadn't actually found a good place to order plants online from (stores around here offer zero). Previously I enjoyed Swords, Vallisneria and a plant that I only know under the name dollar weed and then some moss on the roots I intend to add in there.

As for the fish I think I need to completely rethink now from what I'm used to. Tetra's came to mind first with these readings. I used to LOVE my Killi (A. Australe) however I have not been able to located them here anywhere so far, not even online. 
I had seen Tetra's in the past that appeared similar to Neon's, but larger and blue eyes, again I do not recall the name here sorry.
Apart from Tetra's I do not know/ have not read up yet what fish options I have now that will like my water and the habitat of 55 gallon tank, like the blue rams. But as I said I'm so stuck with the fish and their behavior I previously had in the tanks. Now I need to see who likes my water and will get along with one another, considered 2-3 different kind of fish (Ie. Tetra, Ram, Cory...something like that maybe).


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Just looking at your tanks Byron - AWESOME!
What I mentioned knowing as "dollar weed" you have as well, please help me ID it. Its in most all your tanks, but best seen in the 'former 90g south America' there it is located in the rear corners, it has stems that from my exp grow endlessly unless clipped, round leaves that grow to about 2" diameter '??? *
*


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Oh lovly in your Amazonian tank the plants used in the front, like a short grass version, exactly what are they (can't ID picture is too small for my vision lol). Those look extremely similar to what I once used in the Killi tank, however it wasn't thriving for me (too hard water back then)?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Angel079 said:


> Thanks Byron!!!
> 
> Once they're established I hadn't tested in the past neither unless something appeared "strange" as far as behavior or plants looks etc.
> 
> ...


I'll respond to your three posts separately for ease of keeping questions and answers together.

Re API kits, I live in Vancouver, BC and these are available in several fish stores. They can be ordered online, but don't ask me from whom because I never order things like this online so I wouldn't know.

The Eheim filter media (I used to use it, now I use Fluval because it is much the same thing at 1/3 the cost here) will not alter water chemistry. I had the Eheim for 12 years, now Fluval as I say. The only way to influence hardness is to add specific media like peat (softens) or calcareous rock (dolomite, marble, coral, limestone) to harden. The pH in your tanks will gradually lower due to the biological processes and because there is no significant KH to buffer. Which is fine, as long as you recognize it, as I do; my dolomite thing keeps it steady.

There have been online plant dealers mentioned in other threads, here's one recent one http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquariums/suggestions-stocking-55g-tank-29254/
if you check the posts near the end I think Andrew has a link to a site. And there was an earlier one, memory escapes me at the moment. Other members may see this thread and comment.

Re fish, any of the SA fish will love your water as they do mine. Characins (tetras, pencils, hatchets), catfish (corydoras, farlowella, plecos, oddballs like the Tatia in my avatar...), dwarf cichlids--almost anything from the continent. Then there's SE Asia--gouramis, rasbora, loaches, bettas... You'll never run out of fish for soft, acidic water. Look at the list of fish in my three aquaria, and that's just a beginning.

Byron.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Angel079 said:


> Just looking at your tanks Byron - AWESOME!
> What I mentioned knowing as "dollar weed" you have as well, please help me ID it. Its in most all your tanks, but best seen in the 'former 90g south America' there it is located in the rear corners, it has stems that from my exp grow endlessly unless clipped, round leaves that grow to about 2" diameter '??? *
> *


 
Thank you indeed. 

The plant is Brazilian Pennywort, Hydrocotyle leucocephala. A stem plant, but one that tolerates moderate light better than many, and I do not have any problems with lower leaves falling off due to shade, and they are certainly shaded by the surrounding swords. Grows like a weed, I have to pull it completely out and cut it in half, and plant the top half about every 2-3 weeks or it would be covering the surface. Needs liquid fertilization since the substrate roots are anchors mainly and little else, the roots all along the stems collect nutrients.

Byron.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Angel079 said:


> Oh lovly in your Amazonian tank the plants used in the front, like a short grass version, exactly what are they (can't ID picture is too small for my vision lol). Those look extremely similar to what I once used in the Killi tank, however it wasn't thriving for me (too hard water back then)?


In both the 90g and 115g, the small plants are pygmy chain swords. In the 90g it is Echinodorus tenellus, and in the 115g it is Echinodorus quadricostatus. The latter has slightly wider and longer leaves. Both send out copius runners with daughter plants, and every week I am pulling them out to keep some open areas for the corydoras to feed so I can see them. The lighter green colouration contrasts nicely with the larger swords that are medium green, and the little rough-leaf swords (Echinodorus parviflorus) that are dark green; these latter are in the 115g, but there are a couple mainly hidden in the 90g.

Byron.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Also I recall from past forums, there's some type of "hardener salt" it is not just simple salt but something very special that also adds nutrition for the plants. 
Has anyone heard of this or has a name I could search online for?

@Byron You must be one lucky guy finding such things "just like that" at the next pet store 

My main concern really is stocking the tank, if the fish I wind up buying (whatever they may be) are raised in harder water and then placed here, I'd assume they die of shock wouldn't they?

Pennywort YES that was it! Grows worst then weed does. It actually grew so terrible from just 1 plant in one of my previous tanks; when we were gone for 10 days on vacation and came back it lifted the top open on my 55 gallon (which actually was fairly tall with its 20") crazy stuff if not maintained regular.

I am currently playing around with planting ideas, will post a list when I'm done and see what the feedback is. 
Thanks also for the hint with the other thread, will see where best to order.

Echinodorus Family are just generally VERY nice plants IMO. 

I'm REALLY starting to get very excited to FINALLY have tanks back around me, I missed them since we moved.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Angel079 said:


> Also I recall from past forums, there's some type of "hardener salt" it is not just simple salt but something very special that also adds nutrition for the plants.
> Has anyone heard of this or has a name I could search online for?
> 
> @Byron You must be one lucky guy finding such things "just like that" at the next pet store
> ...


Don't know what the "salt hardner" is, maybe someone else does. I would caution, you do not want salt in a freshwater aquarium, for fish or plants. And chemicals that supposedly do this or that are generally more harm than benefit. The natural dolomite/coral is the only safe way to slightly add hardness.

If you buy fish locally, presumably the water is the same in the store as your house, unless you have well water and not municipal water. You can't worry about what water the fish was raised in, but you can be careful acclimating fish from the store. If the fish is native to soft, acidic water, it will usually settle in to such an environment easily. I've had no problems that I'm aware of with mine over 15 years.

B.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

From what I seen so far, I may be able to get SOME of the once I like at the store that's like 2hrs from here. 
However I may wind up having to order others I like online and THAT is my worry (never done that before had excellent fish store around the corner before the move).


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Byron, this is that 'special salt' I was talking about to harden the water some. Have you ever heard of it?
sera mineral salt -Aquaristic shop


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Angel079 said:


> Byron, this is that 'special salt' I was talking about to harden the water some. Have you ever heard of it?
> sera mineral salt -Aquaristic shop


This seems to be similar to Seachem's product called "Equilibrium." It adds minerals to soft water. However, I couldn't see a list of ingredients so I'd be concerned about the "salt" part. I do not advocate salt in normal freshwater aquaria. There are Malawi Lake salts for rift lake cichlid tanks, also add hardness, but those fish need it.

The only safe and sensible way to add hardness to an aquarium is via nature, a calcareous rock/gravel or crushed coral, in the filter as I previously explained. It is safe, and cheap. Buying bottles of these products cost money and adds up. And it is not necessary.

Choose fish that will suit your water and you'll have fewer problems. I have identical water to you, and the only fish I wouldn't put in it are livebearers or rift lake cichlids; for these (which I have had in the past) I used a dolomite gravel substrate.

Byron.


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