# stocking question



## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi, I'm a beginner so I may be way off here but would the following be ok in a 65 litre (17 US gallons) tank?

2 honey gourami
6 cardinal tetra
4 peppered cory

PH 7.2. DH 11.8. Gravel substrate.
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## RSVBiffer (Feb 3, 2014)

Personally, I would say you are getting on for 50% overstocked. Even removing the Gouramis would still leave you heavily overstocked.

Have you thought about one of the smaller Corys at all? Rather than the Cardinals you could look at the slightly smaller Neon Tetra or, smaller still, the Green Neon Tetra.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you. What if we had 2 honey gourami and 6 neons? Do you have any suggestions for any other combinations at all? Doesn't need to include any of the fish I've mentioned but I'm hoping to be able to have a pair of fish and then a school if possible (and if there is space left, some sort of bottom dweller, shrimp maybe if nothing else would be appropriate). But I'd be grateful on any combination suggestions at all. The tank is for my 2 young kids so I'm trying to figure out what works and what wouldn't so that I can let them have some say in the choice of fish but with me being able to guide them in the right direction. The tank hasn't been cycling very long so still have a few weeks to research fish!
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## RSVBiffer (Feb 3, 2014)

If you were to drop the Corys then I think you are about in the right region for a stocked tank with the Gouramis and the Cardinals. If you replaced the Cardinals with Neons then you could increase the numbers to 8 although the Cardinals are more likely to 'shoal'. I wouldn't add anything else to this.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

You can't keep multiple gourami in a tank that small. With a single honey gourami, 6 cardinals and 5 panda cories I'd say you'd do fine. You just need to watch your parameters and make sure you keep up with maintenance.

ETA - How are you cycling your tank and do you have a liquid test kit?


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Flint said:


> You can't keep multiple gourami in a tank that small. With a single honey gourami, 6 cardinals and 5 panda cories I'd say you'd do fine. You just need to watch your parameters and make sure you keep up with maintenance.
> 
> ETA - How are you cycling your tank and do you have a liquid test kit?


Thanks for the replies.

Yeah I've got the liquid test kit, I'm cycling with ammonia and when it's complete will still stock slowly.
Are there any other fish that you would recommend instead of gourami that we could have as a pair, or a singular, just so I can give my kids some other options?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

How about a betta?
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Would a betta be ok with tetras or are they fin nippers?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Tetras usually only nip when kept in insufficient groups. With such a small shoal, I have to retract my betta suggestion unless you get a short-tail variety such as a king, plakat or a female. I apologize for that.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks for the reply again. Are there any other fish you would suggest to go with a beta? Also, I saw Siamese fighting fish at our local aquatic centre, are they bettas or are they a totally separate fish?

If it was your tank what would you put in there?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

With 1 betta, 6 cardinals and 6 panda cories, I would not add anything else but maybe a nerite snail. Siamese Fighting Fish and Bettas are the same thing.

If I were you, I would do the following stock -
1 Honey Gourami
6 Cardinal Tetras
6 Panda Cories


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you
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## RSVBiffer (Feb 3, 2014)

Flint said:


> You can't keep multiple gourami in a tank that small. With a single honey gourami, 6 cardinals and 5 panda cories I'd say you'd do fine. You just need to watch your parameters and make sure you keep up with maintenance.
> 
> ETA - How are you cycling your tank and do you have a liquid test kit?


This size of tank is often recommended for a pair (or even small group) of Honeys as they tend to 'show' better in numbers.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't recommend it what-so-ever. I wouldn't put multiple gourami in a tank under 3ft and you still have to get a proper group and m/f ratio. I would never suggest a beginner try putting multiple gourami together.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks RSVBiffer, what would you recommend I put with a pair of honey Gourami? And are there any other fish I should consider instead of gourami? What would you have?

I just want to research as many acceptable combinations as possible in order to give my kids more freedom to choose the fish.
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks Flint, we are complete beginners so I really don't want to push our luck with the fish, I really want the fish to be happy and healthy. Does anyone have any suggestions on a pair that would work in a 65 litre tank?
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## RSVBiffer (Feb 3, 2014)

I certainly wouldn't recommend that a newcomer tried to establish a a group in such a tank but I can see no harm in having a pair if that is the route the OP wanted to go down.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

RSVBiffer said:


> I certainly wouldn't recommend that a newcomer tried to establish a a group in such a tank but I can see no harm in having a pair if that is the route the OP wanted to go down.



In 17gallons?? I'm experienced and I do overstock some tanks but I personally wouldn't even want to do that 


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## RSVBiffer (Feb 3, 2014)

Well if I was after a pair of something I would be looking at killifish (you would have to be careful about which species but there is a huge choice) as I am well into these at the moment and they seem to be making a bit of a comeback. Full of colour and full of character. But you have a virtually endless choice. I would select a species that really grabs you and then build everything else around that.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you, I do like the look of killifish. Think I need to take my boys to the aquatic center and see what they like the look of then do some research based on that. Thanks for the advice.
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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Betta are like little water-puppies. They're companionable, tameable, trainable, rugged, tolerant (mostly), beautiful, brave, clean, and reverent. A large healthy plakat (short-fin) would rule the tank .....and kids lov'em.

Build a sorority with 6 or 9 female Betta. A barrel of monkeys is nothing compared to that.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks Hallyx, I will add that to our list of options, sounds like a good option.
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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

What are the dimensions of the tank?


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

24" x 12" and 14" high.
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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

AmyP1985 said:


> Hi, I'm a beginner so I may be way off here but would the following be ok in a 65 litre (17 US gallons) tank?
> 
> 2 honey gourami
> 6 cardinal tetra
> ...


I'm no pro, but this stocking doesn't look terrible to me. . .?

A smaller cory might be a better choice in a 24" tank.
Gourami are notorious for being temperamental, but they can play nice, too - something to read up on, and keep an eye out for, if you take this route.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks, I've just been reading that 3 would be better for gourami so I'm going to cross them off my list I think, as really don't want to overstock and only want to get fish in group sizes they would be happy in. Also think I need to cross cories off the list as our gravel isn't rounded?
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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Well, if you haven't set it up with fish yet, you could always change the gravel for sand.

I think 3 would be fine too, if you got a m/f/f trio.

3 Honeys, 8 Neons, and 5 Pandas.

I do agree that it would be safer to have the corydoras on sand, instead of gravel. I know some people have done it successfully, but personally I think it's safer to use sand.

EDIT: Absolutely wonderful to hear that you've been doing research before you stock! It really makes me happy to see how determined you are to have the best for your fish and start off on the right foot.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks. We have an undergravel filter and I've heard sand is a no because of that? It came with the tank but will probably get a new filter when we have the money spare, although it will probably be too late to change to sand then. Are there any suitable bottom dwellers that like gravel and would fit in the tank?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

An undergravel filter isn't going to maintain the tank like you need. I HIGHLY suggest waiting until you can afford a different filter to start this tank.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Once you have you tank built and stocked, it will be more difficult to replace that UGF. They really are a pain in the long run. The Azoo Palm goes for about $7. Or a slightly bigger version of the same thing. 

You have an airpump. You can get a suitable sponge filter for even less.

Jaycee knows about equipment. Let me see if he's around.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks. Can I run something alongside the undergravel filter so that I don't have to start back at the beginning with cycling the tank? My kids are being very patient, especially as they are so young but if there is something I can do to not make them wait even longer that would be good.

We were going to get a new filter when we first got the tank but a friend of my husband's said he's never had any problem with them and I found some positive articles about them online. Wish I just got one back then!
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Guys just tell me bluntly if this is a stupid idea (it's the best way for me to learn), but what about keeping the undergravel filter, with the powerhead as it is now and also getting a sponge filter and using our airstone with it? Will that make things any better? Or would it be better to have airstone with undergravel filter and powerhead with sponge filter? Or get another powerhead? Or will none of that help?

My husband is adamant we should try the undergravel because his mate at work "loves them and he's had aquariums for 30 years". But if there is nothing I can add to assist with the filtering then I will ask him to do some research himself to see my point of view!
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Honestly, undergravel filters are breeding ground for bad bacteria. They also require much more work to keep clean and will collect uneaten food and waste which will harm your water quality. I have used UGFs and I do not think it is a good idea to continue with it at all. I HIGHLY suggest getting an HOB filter. You can use the UGF if you are adamant about using it but again, I don't recommend it. You'll end up having more problems than it's worth.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm sure someone who's had fish tanks for 30 yrs can get stuck in outdated fishkeeping practices. I remember when I started how shockingly common they were. I was young and my parents luckily steered me in a better direction. They fail.. And often . Clog up and stop working or trap rotting food and poo and ruin water. 30yrs ago water testing was a lot less common and fish dying in less then 1yr was acceptable . "Success " back then is not the same as it is now. 


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Right, we're going to the aquatic center. When I've got the new filter i'm going to remove all the ornaments,rocks and plants, try and pull the ugf from under the gravel, without doing a water change or gravel vac so that any bacteria that may be on the gravel will stay where it is. Or is that a bad idea?

Also, is it worth keeping the powerhead for anything? It's brand new.

Thanks again for the advice!
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

UGFs create a mulm under the filter. You are most likely going to have to pull everything out of the tank, get as much gravel off as possible and then remove the filter and do a DEEEEP clean. The gravel and decor honestly won't hold enough beneficial bacteria to keep your cycle where it is.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Ok, I'll get it all out, thank you.
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Didn't get to go to the aquatic centre, was closed by the time we'd finished with teatime and pancake day festivities, so my husband is going to get a filter on his way home from work tomorrow. Is there anything we need to be aware of when choosing a filter?

Also, I emptied the tank, all clean, everything back in and treated the water. Is there any point in adding ammonia now or should I wait until we have the new filter tomorrow?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Get a filter that will run your tank volume (17 gallons) at least 6 times an hour. I think in gallons, not liters, so for your tank you would need a filter that runs at least 102 gallons per hour. Pay no mind to whether it says it's for a 10-20 gallon or not. 

There is no reason to add ammonia until you get your filter.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Have him pick up a small bottle of Tetra Safestart while he's there. Your kids shouldn't have to wait more than a week for you to put fish in your tank.

Alternately, with TSS, you can immediately stock any and all schooling fish you decide on, get the tank cycled and stabilized, then put in your centerpiece or smaller school.

The trouble with being new to this hobby is there are so many good ways to go --- and a few bad ones. You'll only get good ones here. But that still leaves you with a confusing array of good alternatives.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks both. Hopefully third time lucky with starting the cycle! (first attempt was with fish flakes).
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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

I personally really like the AquaClear filters. The 20 or 30 model would work well. I dunno if your store carries them though.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm curious as to why you're using fish flakes as opposed to pure ammonia?


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

I'm not but I was, then I managed to get hold of some pure ammonia, so I cleaned the tank out and started again. Then, as you know, I've cleaned the tank out again to get rid of the ugf, hence the third time lucky remark 
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

jentralala said:


> I personally really like the AquaClear filters. The 20 or 30 model would work well. I dunno if your store carries them though.


Thanks I'll pass that info onto my husband.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Oh, okay.  Fish food can be hard to control the amount of ammonia you want to dose, which is why I was asking.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

New filter is in, ammonia is in, tetra safe start is in and, after asking the aquatic centre nicely, we have even managed to seed the tank, yay!

So now that I'm back to thinking about fish, Red Platy? Would they be appropriate in our tank? My boys like the look of them. If they would be appropriate, how many should be together? Would they work in a pair?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

You could, many people do, but I suggest a 20 gallon long for them. You can get a pair but make sure you get two males if you do. They breed like rabbits and will overstock your tank quickly. The females can have 8+ broods after being separated from a male, too, so again, I suggest two males.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

How about 
2 red platies
6 cardinal tetra
6 panda cories
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I have to tell you, though, I just got a powder blue dwarf gourami (the all blue one) and he is so full of spunk and personality!
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

That sounds great but we've stuck with the gravel so will steer clear of cories. Are there any other bottom dwellers we could look at that would be happy with gravel?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Bottom dwellers usually need sand. How about a bristlenose pleco?
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

I remember looking at those and thinking they weren't suitable for our tank but I can't remember why now, do they prefer to be in groups? A group would be too much for our tank wouldn't it? I don't want to have a lonely fish 
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

No they aren't group oriented and one will be fine for your tank 
2 platies
8 tetras
1 bristlenose
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Oooh I like that then! Thank you! I know my boys like the platies and tetras, I'll have to show them a bristlenose. And I'm assuming I can just let my boys choose which tetra we buy as long as it is a small version? Thanks for all your help.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Stick with cardinals, neons, rummy nose, the smaller-bodied types. I wouldn't go with wider bodied like black skirts. Harlequin rasboras and zebra danios are good options as well. Do you know how to sex platies so you make sure you get males?
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Would black phantom tetra be ok too? I remember looking at some at the shop.

I have no idea about sexing them! Do I need to have a certain gender of any of the other fish too?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

You could do black phantoms. 

Male platies, right near their bottom hole, have a pointy fin while females have a round normal looking fin. If you search up "how to sex livebearers" it will give you photos of what to look for. No, you don't need to be concerned with sexing the other fish you chose. 
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Great, thank you! Should I get some driftwood if we go with a bristlenose? If so, should we get the wood now or when we get the fish or doesn't it matter? Just watched a video on YouTube of a bristlenose and it was so cute! Will show my son's in the morning, I know they'll love it!

Just to check, are all of those fish mentioned happy in hard water? I think ours is 11.8 dh.

Thanks again!
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

The fish will do fine in your water and yes get some Malaysian driftwood. I would add it now because it'll leak tannins at first making your water tea-colored unless you boil it well first. It goes away over time with water changes though.
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Absolutely!


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Here's a photo for how to sex them now that I'm home!


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

That's great, thanks.

And sorry, another question! When the tank is cycled we still want to stock slowly, so which of the fish should we add first?

My kids loved the video of the bristlenose this morning, we had to watch it 6 times haha 
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## rsskylight04 (Nov 9, 2013)

I would add the pleco first because he has a higher bioload . Your bacteria colonies will have a chance to adjust to the increased load before you add the others.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

If you are dosing ammonia at 4ppm, you can add your entire stock at once.
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks both. I've only added 3ppm because we decided to stock slowly just to make sure all was ok for the fish and thought it would be good for the boys to get more than one trip to the aquatic centre to choose a fish.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Then I would stock the tetras first, wait two weeks, add the platies and then the bn.
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

You could change the order of the platies and bn if you want, I just figured your kids would want to see them as soon as possible.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks, think the pleco is their new favorite though 
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Just ran some tests and the ph has gone up to 8.2, was previously 7.2. Is that a normal thing to happen? What should I do about it?


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Don't worry, it'll fluctuate a lot during cycling.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks, I won't bother testing ph again until the end of the cycle then.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

AmyP1985 said:


> Thanks, I won't bother testing ph again until the end of the cycle then.


Wellll..... the development of nitrifying bacteria colonies releases mild acid into the tank which lowers the pH. This is usually a minor effect which is taken care of by water changes during the cycle. But it should be monitored anyway.

The pH really shouldn't go up much, if at all. What is your sourcewater pH? What is your sourcewater pH after 24 hours?


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Tap water is 7.2 and it stayed like that in the tank on my previous attempt to cycle. We have added tetra safe start and some water squeezed out of a used filter sponge this time, could either of those things have anything to do with it? The only other change is the removal of the ugf and addition of the new interpet filter.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

So you're aware, the water out of the filter sponge didn't really seed your tank, you have to use the actual sponge to seed it.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

That's what I thought and that's what my husband asked for but the "specialist" at the aquatic centre just squeezed the sponge into a bag and said to just tip the water in the tank and that would work. I know the bacteria live on surfaces, not just floating around in the water but the bloke was adamant that the bacteria would have been squeezed into the bag with the water.

And this is why I research everything online instead of just asking the shop staff!

Have got some driftwood in now ready for the bn. Ammonia levels had dropped yesterday so I topped it back up to 3, nitrite still 0 though.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

What's nitrate?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

So much for so-called specialists. You have a good head for evaluating information. Use it wisely. 

Adding water from an unknown tank is not a great idea. You don't know where it has been. 

That's what the TSS is for. Yes it can temporarily mess with your pH (so can unknown tank-water), though I don;t hear that often. Any time you make major changes, like pulling filters or changing substrate, you can expect some changes,


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks both.

I haven't tested nitrate levels for a couple of days, was 0 on the last test and I assumed it would stay that way until nitrite levels change, is that right or shall I test all three when I run my tests later?


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Yeah test nitrate I want to know where the ammonia went.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Always test all three in the beginning. There's frequently some overlap, and it's good to know what's going on. You can stop testing the ones that zero out.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Nitrite test has a hint of purple tonight, looks inbetween 0 and 0.25. Nitrate has a very slight hint of orange I think but still pretty much 0. Ammonia looks like it's gone down slightly again. I do struggle with these colour charts to be honest, any tips when comparing the colours? Brighter light, less light etc?
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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

I use natural sunlight and hold the tubes against a sheet of white paper


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## Esther1980 (Mar 8, 2014)

Test all three because some could be wrong I suggest


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Sometimes I look into the test-tubes from the top/end with lighting from the side. Turn them and look on angles. Eventually you'll just know what color is right. And, to be honest, it's not that critical anyway.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

thank you
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

nitrite definitely purple tonight, 1ppm, nitrates 5ppm and ammonia down to 1 so topped back up to 3 
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Almost there!!
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Yay! I can't wait to be able to tell my boys when it's time to go to get the fish! My 4 year old already has names picked out bless him.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

That's so cute!


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Ammonia is dropping to 0 within 24 hours now, just waiting for the nitrites to do the same! I know when it has finished I need to do a water change to get the nitrates below 40, I was wondering if I can mix some warm tap water in with the cold tap water when I add the new water in (adding aqua safe too of course) so that the temp doesn't drop too low?

Any estimates on how much longer the cycle should take now? I haven't done any test yet today, have been doing them in the evening.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Do you not have a heater?

I would guess about a week but I'll say two just so I don't get your hopes up. (;


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks. Yeah we have a heater but it takes a few hours to warm the water back up. Once the cycle is complete how long can I leave it without adding ammonia or fish before the bacteria start to die?
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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

A week to go, with any luck. 

Add fish within a couple of days of stopping ammonia dosing. They don't die-back right away. They go into suspended animation first.

It's customary to match water temperature at the tap.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

thanks
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi again, nitrite levels are still showing as high as the test goes, no changes at all, is that normal or do I need to do anything? Ammonia is still dropping everyday to 0 and I put it back up to 3ppm everyday. Nitrates are 180.
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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Stubborn nitrite is a pain. 

Is that a typo? Is your nitrate really 180ppm. I'd change water to get it back into the <40ppm range.

I thought you were already cycled <sigh>

Re-dose ammonia to 3.0ppm and see what your nitrite does. Let us know


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Nope not a typo, I'll do a water change, thanks.
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Ok was a slight typo, I meant 160. After water change and dosing ammonia back to 3, nitrites are still 5 but it didn't instantly change to purple like it has been doing. Nitrates are now between 20 - 40.
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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Nitrite at 5.0ppm will slow or stall your cycle. See about cutting that back <2.0ppm.

After that, you can reduce ammonia dosing to <2.0ppm.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

How do I go about doing that? Another water change?
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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Hehehee.... get used to it. It's what fishkeeping is all about. 

"I don't keep fish. I keep water. Water keeps fish." ~~Mr Vampire, young Betta breeder


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Haha, ok thanks, I'll see if I can manage it without soaking my socks this time (probably not).
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Still not cycled 
Ammonia is still dropping to 0 everyday (dosing to 2ppm now)
Nitrite has stayed at 2ppm since the water change and nitrates are staying between 10 - 20.
Ph is 7.8.

Any advice or is it just a case of continuing to wait patiently?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

It's part of the cycling process. You have to wait until those nitrites get completely converted to nitrates. Keep dosing. You're almost there!
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. Tonight the ammonia was 0 (dosed back up to 2ppm), nitrites seemed to have lowed, looked in between 0.5 and 1ppm. Nitrates, however, still seemed to be 5ppm.

Is that normal for nitrites to lower without nitrates going up? Also, if nitrites drop to 0 and nitrates only reach 5 will that be a complete cycle or will the nitrates be too low at 5ppm?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Personally, I like to cycle until my nitrates hit 20ppm, then I do a WC and let them hit that again but that's just me.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

The nitrates had reached 160 before the water change on the 23rd March but they just seem to be staying low since then. After the water change I added aquasafe to condition the water but I didn't add any more tetra safe start, should I add some?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Nitrates tend to get high in a cycle before it's over. I, personally, would add another full bottle of TSS but that's just me.


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Ok, thank you.
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

So the nitrite levels have been dropping over the last few days and had dropped as low as 0.25 yesterday so was really hoping for 0 today, but no, straight back up to 2! I don't understand why! I haven't changed the amount of ammonia I've been adding and ammonia always drops to 0 every day.

Is it normal for the nitrites to do that?
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Forgot to say, nitrates have gone up, 5 yesterday, 10 today.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Cycling isn't an exact science, just be patient, you'll get there!
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Ammonia levels and nitrite levels have been 0 for a couple of days now but nitrate are very low still, <5ppm. I've been slowly increasing the dose of ammonia in the hope of increasing the nitrates, is that the right thing to do? Thanks again for all your help so far!
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

The ammonia and nitrites have dropped to 0 at least 3 days in a row after dosing?
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Not 3 in a row, I increased the ammonia and nitrites went back up to 0.25 but last 2 days have been 0. Ammonia always returns to 0 within 24 hours.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

What did you increase the ammonia to?
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

From 2 to 3ppm
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Ok. Once your nitrites zero out, dose 3ppm every time ammonia drops to 0. Once ammonia and nitrites zero out three days in a row, do a 50-75% water change and add your fish. You can add them all at the same time.
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Even if the nitrates are still <5?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Yes, though, if you don't do a water change between then and now they should be higher than 5. (;


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

thank you
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Any time!


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Third day in a row of zero ammonia and zero nitrites!!! I've done a 50% water change and will be going to get the fish tomorrow! Thank you so much for all your help, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all my questions.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Yay!! I hope you plan on rewarding us with pictures!!
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Of course! Haven't got the bristlenose yet as the shop we went to didn't have any, got 8 neon tetra and 2 platy. I asked for 2 male and very stupidly trusted the "specialist". Once we got home I realised one is female, and the shop was shut by the time we got home so couldn't go back! Is it going to be disastrous?
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## rsskylight04 (Nov 9, 2013)

Won't be a disaster. The fry will likely be eaten by the neons as soon asthey are born.
Good luck with your tank!


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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you. I really don't like the thought of the fry being eaten. Is it inevitable that they will breed?
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## AmyP1985 (Feb 18, 2014)

The male platy has died  I don't know what went wrong. Have tested the water and it's all good. The other fish, including the other platy, all seem fine, all swimming around and eating.

Also the bristlenose pleco managed to get into the filter, I tipped her back out, was that the right thing to do or should I just leave her to it if she does it again?
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