# Diamond tetras with white stuff around their mouths



## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hi all. I'm very new to fish keeping and hoping someone here can help, as I've lost much faith in even aquarium stores I have a newly setup 40 gallon tank with 6 diamond tetras. I originally had 2 in a much smaller tank, until I learned better. The other 4 I just got Saturday. The tank is not yet cycled, only started cycling it this past Saturday also, using One and Only nitrifying bacteria. I had planned on doing a fishless cycle, but the first 2 needed to be moved right away for their better welfare, so sadly I couldn't. My ammonia is .50 ppm, nitrite 0, nitrate 0 and ph is 7.4. We had a bloom for two days that went away on its own yesterday. Then last night we noticed 3 of the 6 fish have white marks around their mouths! They seem to look fine and act fine other than that. I'm really worried about them, especially being an uncycled tank. Anyone know what this is or what to do about it? I'm attaching a couple pictures. Thank you so much in advance.


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Well it's hard for me to verify with the pictures, but it sounds like the start of mouth fungus. Any time I hear 'white around the mouth' that's an immediate fungus red flag for me.

Recommended treatment: Salt. If it's the 40g tank that you want to treat them i'd use 1 teaspoon/gallon... so 40 teaspoons. Comes out to roughly 13.3 table spoons or .83 cups.

This should NOT HURT your fish OR plants - and is a good blanket remedy incase we're dealing with a misdiagnosis.

If you still have the smaller tank, it sounds like it might make a good hospital tank. If that's the case, you can do a salt bath treatment.

I use this salt treatment, which I found on a guppy hobbyists site. Bear in mind, this treatment is safe for most if not all freshwater fish.
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Days 1 - 3: add I teaspoon of salt per gallon of water, every morning and every night. (2 teaspoons /gallon/day)

Days 4 - 7: Leave water alone.

Days 8 - 10: Remove half of the tank water each day and replace with unsalted, chlorine-free water at the correct temperature.

If by day 7 you see any improvement (but not a total cure), wait until day 10 to start changing the water in the tank. Be sure to change half the water once a day, for three days at the end of the salt treatment. Also, don't wait longer than 10 days to start changing the water, as the salt itself can begin to cause problems for your fish.
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It is very important if you use the salt bath method in your smaller hospital tank, that you do NOT combine it with any other medications, and you follow the instructions carefully. The gradual adjustment to salt, the wait time, and the gradual adjustment to -lack- of salt, are all in place to ensure maximum fish safety and treatment.

Also note: Do NOT use this salt treatment in your planted 40g. I don't know if your plants would survive it, and if nothing else, it's a huge cost saver to use a smaller hospital tank for these situations.

I hope this helps, and I do hope your tetras come out okay!


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Thank you Rocky. I had read about using salt, but was unsure if it was safe for tetras. I don't have any live plants, so that part won't be a problem. My small tank was torn down because it never would cycle. I can't use it as a hospital tank as its currently being loaded with ammonia on a fishless cycle These poor fish have already been through so much, this is so upsetting. I will try the salt if you think it's truly safe for tetras. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture off them. Thank you again, I really appreciate it.


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

It's definitely safe for tetras, infact, it's safe for nearly all freshwater fish. For now, here is what I'd do.

Today: 50% water change, add 40 teaspoons of salt to the water you add back in (So it mixes well)
Tomorrow (Feb 4th): add 40 teaspoons of salt. Don't be shy about adding it 1 tsp at a time, sprinkling it over the top to ensure it mixes well.
Feb 5th: Observe, and don't do anything. If you see any changes, let me know.
Feb 6th: Observe, and don't do anything. If you see any changes, let me know.
Feb 7th: 50% water change. By now the condition should be clearing up.
Feb 8th: Observe, and don't do anything. If you see any changes, let me know.
Feb 9th: Observe, and don't do anything. If you see any changes, let me know. By now your condition should have cleared up completely.
Feb 10th: 50% water change. Resume normal tank schedule assuming condition is cured.

Best of luck, we all care about our aquatic friends, so believe me I understand what you're going through! I'll support you any way I can!


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hi again Rocky. So after researching, I think your right, I think it's the mouth fungus thing So you think using the salt is a better way to go than antibiotics? Maybe because I caught it early? Also, with my tank not even being close to being cycled, how will the big water change affect that? Should I add more of the One and Only in with the new water? Thank you for being here and for your understanding. I can't even barely function at work today Thank you so much


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Well, antibiotics will do more harm to your cycle than a salt treatment or water changes will. Fact is, they kill 'good' and 'bad' bacteria equally. Additionally, a fungal infection isn't something you can treat with antibiotics, as it's not bacterial in nature.

I still strongly recommend the salt treatment. It's been the bread and butter treatment for aquariums almost as long as the hobby's been around, and almost never does anything but good for a tank.

I think your cycle, and your tank will be okay


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

I'm sorry to bug you again Rocky, but now I'm maybe more confided. From what I read, "mouth fungus" though that's only one of it's many names, isn't actually a fungus. It's a bacterial infection. Guess that's why I was confused before as well about the salt. I know you know way more about fish than I do! I'm still absolutely willing to try the salt tonight. Maybe it can help bacterial stuff as well? I certainly don't want to use antibiotics unless I have to. This should be the last time I big you; ) I hope


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

You know you might be right, upon you mentioning it, it seems familiar. Tonight I'll look more into it. But I do know for certain, that mouth fungus can be treated directly with salt treatment.

I also know that antibiotics will damage your current tank cycle, because they kill good bacteria as well.

If I were to for now assume that you're right, as I suspect, that mouth 'fungus' is actually bacterial, based on those above facts, I'd still recommend the salt treatment to you.

Also, you're definitely not bugging me, I'm here to help, and more than happy to share my experiences with you! I just hope that your fish pull through okay.


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

So in trying to be as accurate as possible, the 'bacterial' mouth fungus is actually Columnaris.

Treatments of Columnaris vary, but the salt treatment I recommended to you is listed for both Columnaris AND 'True' fungal infections.

To be safe for your tetras, I did some reading around. Found out that salt was generally bad for sensitive fish, like Tetras, but the general concensus is, it takes weeks to months for high salt levels to harm your tetras.

So here's the skinny. Tetras are very sensitive fish. It's tricky to treat them without killing them yourself. A half dose of antibiotic won't sufficiently treat your problem (And won't work if it's fungus, misdiagnosed.) A half treatment of fungal meds won't be effective enough (And will miss if it's columnaris.)

A full treatment of either of these medications DOES run the risk of killing your sensitive tetras.

However, Salt will not likely bother your Tetras, much less kill them, and will treat both a true fungal, or columnaris infection. I'm praying that I've done all my research right, and that this answer is as true as you will find... for Tetras, the salt treatment is your best bet. Infact, the treatment schedule I gave you is a little less salt than I'd use for Mollies or Guppies, because I happen to know them to be particularly resistant little guys.


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Wow Rocky, you are awesome to do all that research! I did quite a lot myself, but it's all so confusing. So I went to the fish store last night and bought an all natural med that is suppose to help both both the true fungal and the bacterial one(made with essential oils and extracts). And it doesn't mess with the bacteria in the tank. I feel good about trying it, but not sure it will work. I read somewhere you can do the salt treatment with it, so I think I'll do that. Follow your recipe. Does that sound reasonable? It's just odd that they are all acting fine and they all have their white spot in the same place. One definitely has something going on, but the others. ...I'm starting to wonder if that's just their face! Lol. Okay, thank you so so much once again. Maria


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

I typically don't mix any kind of meds with a salt treatment, but if you have looked into it and feel safe with it, then go ahead. Just remember to check about that treatment with Tetras specifically, as they're super sensitive to chemical changes in the water.


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Rocky Conner said:


> Well it's hard for me to verify with the pictures, but it sounds like the start of mouth fungus. Any time I hear 'white around the mouth' that's an immediate fungus red flag for me.
> 
> Recommended treatment: Salt. If it's the 40g tank that you want to treat them i'd use 1 teaspoon/gallon... so 40 teaspoons. Comes out to roughly 13.3 table spoons or .83 cups.
> 
> ...


Well crap. ..okay, I'm going to trust your judgement. I already put the natural medicine in last night. If it does not help, I'll do a water change, then follow your salt treatment. If tetras are especially sensitive, I don't want to do too much at once. I wrote down your salt treatment so I'll always have it handy I will let you know how things progress. Thank you bunches


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Any time! I hope your treatment works! It sounds like a much better option than some of the over-the-counter anti-fungal anti-bacterial medications out there. Things like Copper treatments scare the heck out of me!


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hi. I'm hoping you're around, I don't know how to look for you in the chat room. I just got home from work and they're worse. They're are still active, but one went sideways a couple of times. All of them now have a white cloudiness covering the front half of their bodies. Looks like a pale, but even slime. It's not blotchy looking. One now has the white crap on one of his eyes and that one had nothing yesterday. The meds I used are suppose to help their slime coat. ..could that be the film I see on them? I'm freaking out I'm really really close to starting the salt thing tonight. But I'm scared to! Help


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

It's really more like a hazziness look to their bodies, all of them. All their tails and fins look perfect. And they're still acting normal. Two of them are having a blast right now playing in the filter current. Maybe I should give more time to see if meds will work. I don't know. I hate all this worrying


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Hey, I'm back. You lack the posts to hit me up in chat, you need 15.

Please if you can take some pictures and upload 'em for me so I can see what you're talking about?


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Oh, okay. I can barely use this part. Let me see if I can get some pictures. My husband says he can't see the film I'm talking about, but it's there.


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Alright just let me know.

In the meantime, you might wanna post a few blanks in here or something so we can chat in the chat room, Not sure if the admin will torch me for the recommendation or not, but this is a fishy emergency lol


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

It's really hard to get pictures when they won't float still! One picture should show the one guys eye. I think you can also see the cloudiness to the front half of his body. The others are general pictures of most of them. It's really hard to see what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm crazy!


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Eh I don't know how the chat anyway lol. On here that is


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Yeah, they must be cruisin. I have the same issue with my guppies :/

So, if you're worried there's a problem, check the labeling on the medicine you gave them. Find out how soon you're supposed to be seeing results. If you're thinking you're just not going to get the same results, then you'll need to do a 50% water change, and start salt treatment. I do worry about over stressing them, but I don't know enough about the medicine they've been given, and how it affects the water chemistry, to make a call on it and be 100% sure. All I can share is my opinion.

if it were me... I'd probably go with the water change, then salt treatment. But then, I raise guppies, and guppies can handle a lot of stress, temp changes, PH adjustments... heck, if you acclimate fancy guppies, you can even keep them in brackish water. They're just tough.

Ultimately, I really don't want to lead you astray, and have you lose a fish because of where my judgement comes from. I'll try and get a couple more people that I respect to share their opinion with you.


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Okay, good advise. Maybe I can get ahold of the company tomorrow. I already read the entire leaflet that came with it. If they look worse tomorrow, I'll do the water change and salt the little boogers and pray. I've done so much research and just cannot figure out if it's the true fungus one or the bacterial one. I don't wanna medicate them for the wrong thing. This just sucks Thank you so much, once again


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Don't thank me yet, I wanna get your aquatic friends back on their fins first! lol


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

I have to. It's wonderful to have someone out there who cares so much and wants to help others I appreciate it so much. But yeah, I wanna save my little guys. I should have left well enough alone with 3 cats and 2 dogs! Let me know if you ever need cat and dog advise, I might be an expert there, lol


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## Warhawk (Feb 23, 2014)

When I have any infection I use Melafix API® Melafix Fish Bacerial Infection Treatment | Bacteria | PetSmart If you catch it early it will clear up any issues but often it's too late. I try to move the fish to a hospital tank(small tank with just the sick fish that is cycled) while I treat them. 

I have never tried the salt water treatment Rocky is talking about but sounds like it would help. 

I have found the best thing is to do large water changes daily to help keep the infection out of the water so the fish aren't getting reinfected. By large water changes I'm talking 50-75% you want to keep the water clean. Also don't raise the temp if it is a bacteria infection that will cause it to go faster and you will have dead fish real quick.


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hi Warhawk. Thanks for your advise. I was looking at that medicine, as well as the Pimafix. Problem is I don't know if it's bacterial or fungal, which seems to be common to not be able to tell apart. I don't want to use the wrong thing, but also not sure how long I should wait to try something else. Fish. ...sigh


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hey Rocky. Just thought I'd let you know that I called the medicine company. Guy was very nice and helpful. He thought it sounded bacterial by what I described. He also said if I don't see improvements after the second dose (to be given today), to double the third dose. That it was completely safe. So, it's just a wait and see I guess.


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you for the update. Have you noticed any changes in your fish? Good or bad?


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hey. Yeah, a second one now has the cloudy eye. He didn't eat today. Other than that, they're the same. Rest of them are still eating and active. It's not getting better though. I'm thinking I'm going to need a more aggressive approach As long as they're not behaving abnormal I guess I'll continue this treatment, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Well... it's grim, but I've been thinking about this all day. The reality is this...

An infection, fungal OR bacterial, will kill your fish. If your medicine treatment isn't cutting it, then your fish won't make it.

This means that if you don't see some improvement by tomorrow night... you're not risking anything by starting the salt treatment, and continuing your current treatment.

I'm sorry to be so blunt about it, but the way I'm looking at it, it's about the only thing I can personally think of that will give them a chance. Absolute worst case scenario, you prevent some of their suffering.


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hi. No apologies needed, you're right. The one that looked the worst actually looks a little better today. The others, the same. All are still acting okay. Tomorrow would be the final dose on these meds, I'm gonna double it. If they're not much better, I think I'm gonna go with an antibiotic. I feel I have nothing to lose with that either at this point. I'm to the point where if this doesn't work, I need to take a more aggressive approach. I probably should have listened to you and done the salt early on, but I was nervous to I don't have good bacteria in my tank yet anyway. All my water readings are still okay though, I'll just continue to keep an eye on them every day. Even though I didn't follow your advise (this time), it's given me great comfort knowing you're here for us Truly


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

That's the beauty of advice... it's just an alternative to your own methods. It's no requirement, and frankly, it'd be silly of me to have any negative feelings to you or anyone else not taking said advice.

I'm just happy I could help. Maybe not directly in regards to your fish, but if I've helped you just by offering a brain to bounce ideas off of, then I'm still glad I could. Feel free to continue this thread, even if it's just updates, or PM me. I'll be keeping an eye out for it, and I am offering the best hopes for you and your fish.


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Thank you Rocky. And you did help. You helped me diagnose for one. You also helped by just being there, me not feeling scared and alone! I hope I'm not misusing this thread, I've never used a forum so not sure what the rules are, just trying to keep you updated. So I will continue to keep you updated Thank you so much for everything.


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Not a problem at all. How are they doing?


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hi. They're okay. Not any better. Not any worse. The antibiotics I ordered on amazon should be here any time. Going to put them in as soon as they arrive. Hurry up usps!


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Antibiotics are in! Five day treatment with Maracyn Two. Keep your fingers crossed; )


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

No better no worse is good news! Halting an infection of any kind is harder than people think.


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## Rocky Conner (Jan 27, 2016)

Haven't gotten an update from you in awhile... your tetras doing ok?


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hey! I'm glad you sent me a message because I've been wanting to update you on them, but didn't know how to get to this thread, except by clicking on the link in the email! They're all still hanging in there. Three are real active and eating well. The other other three are kinda lethargic and one has not ate, that I've seen, in about a week I'm very worried about him. I think I see slight improvement, but that's about it. I don't have any idea how long the antibiotics should take to work. If they even are working. If they don't, I don't know what else to do. I'm surprised, but very happy, that I haven't lost any. Thank you so much for checking in on them, you're the best I need to learn how to use this site better apparently.


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## Diamonds (Feb 3, 2016)

Hello again. The one that hadn't been eating for a week ate tonight!! So excited to see that One or two others didn't eat. So tell me. ...is it normal for some to not always eat every time? I've been curious.


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