# Stocking suggestions for 180G



## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

Ok i am getting a 180 gallon tank. the plan is to move my 13 rainbow,12 harlequin, 6 congo,9 cory, and a few bristlenose into it.

Water is hard. 7.0ph
I plan on running 2 canister filters on the tank.
I def want this to be a planted tank.

looking for some stock suggestions.
I was thinking clown loaches but with a planted tank that might not work. 
Maybe some buenos aries? Or Gouramis?


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

If you set up the tank and fully plant it right away and give it few months for the plants to develop a proper root system you'll have no issue with the Clowns. Chose more sturdy plants and less stem plants that'll dev good roots like Swords, Hygrophilia's, Vallis, that type plants.

For what you got and the size tank, I'd pers stock up the Congo's and the Cory. I'd not add Gourami's to the Rainbow's I doubt that'll end well.

Like the Buenos aries idea, but if you get them, make sure to get a school of at least 10, they have a fin nipping reputation when kept in small group (and you don't want that in your tank).


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

good ideas. not sure what i have growing in my other tanks. i know i have anubias, java moss, hornwort, and a few i dont remember. swords never do well for me, maybe i get the wrong kind...
i guess in the 180 i can make a deeper substrate to help with rooting, maybe 3.5"? 

yeah i def. want more congos.....i kick myself for not buying more when i did (they were half price)!!!
right now there are 5 emerald green and 4 juli cories.....maybe get 5 of another variety?
i also have 4 yellow sailfish and 2 candycane swordtails that would go in.
like to get more rainbows have 8 austrailian and 5 preacox. maybe some red irian or torquise?

what would be a good starting qty of clowns?
I often see tiger barbs with the clowns.......would they work in my tank?
ok beunos aires are in....
Hmmm liveaquaria says gouramis are ok with rainbows, so does aquariumfish.net:

Good tanks mates for these Gouramis: All Barbs, Gouramis, Danios, Rainbows, a school of Clown Loaches, one Red Tail Shark or one Rainbow Shark, a school of Bala Sharks, and a Spiny Eel. Click here to read more about several other groups of compatible fish.

do you have any personal experience with why they wouldnt work together?


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

You can post plant pictures to be ID'ed in the plant section if you like?
Swords are heavy root feeders, they often don't do well unless they get root tablets 1-2x/year.
Anubias tied down to Driftwood would work well too.
My tanks that you see under aquariums here all have ~2"; from my exp 2-2.5" fine gravel has worked well for the plants. But bare in mind if using Anubias or Java fern, they don't thrive when planted in gravel well, they rather wanna be attached to something (driftwood, rocks etc).

Yes def if you can stock the Cory's to 8-10 each that would do wonders for their schooling behavior (and I mean heck you have the room for them).

I perf like the Boeseman's (Pictures under my aquariums "Rainbows 55g") or Torquise Rainbows the best - But its your tank not mine, so you need to know what you like best 

Tiger Barbs are the most active one's of all Barbs, also lil on the aggressive side there, I pers wouldn't wanna house these together with calm Tetra's.
If you want Gourami, get them, like I said your tank. Just from my pers exp with Rainbows when spawning they get territorial and that with the Gourami's IMO is a mix like the Tiger Barbs vs Tetra.
I try for more peaceful set up's in community tanks, if you have aggressive / territorial/ fin nippers among peaceful fish it may work for a while, but the permanent stress being chased around leads to other health issues (kinda like humans under permant stress) and that in the long run causes for short lives, issues within the stock of the tank yaddy ya - Nothing I pers like to deal with in my set ups - But like I said your tanks your call 

In the combo of Cory and pleco you said you have (who else do you have for the bottom) I think i'd get 2 Clown's


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

I agree about adding more Congos and cories. I would get 4-5 more of the Julii. Cories are so much more fun to watch when they're in a big group of the same species and you may see some spawning activity. I have Pearl gouramis (1 male, 1 female) in with my Congos and they get along fine. I don't think I'd try Tiger Barbs or the Buenos Aires tetra with the Congos though because of their fin nipping reputation and the Congos have those long, beautiful fins. 

You said your PH is 7 (neutral) and hard. Do you know what the GH and KH is?

Sounds like it will be a nice tank. Would love to see pics once you have it up and running.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

ok GH looks like 11
KH is 5
when i started the tanks i was using very soft water. as an experiment i started using hard tap water. I noticed an immediate improvement in the rainbows and corys behavior. they became very active and the corys displayed spawning behavior. so thats all i use now.

the tank with the sword has a mixed substrate of flourite and eco-complete so i thought i wouldnt have to add fert for the gravel. there is another plant with mass root system that is slowly taking over the tank. the sword was doing well at one point it just seemed to stop growing. although it is a live bearer tank and they are kinda hard on the plants.
my anubia is attached to driftwood and rocks. my java fern is on a cocconut shell and i seeded some onto a ceramic hollow log. I did my homework there.

its funny every time i see the boosemani in a fish store i am always disappointed in their color. they have just a little blue with no yellow color at all, so i always get something else. that and they are kinda pricey.....

are gouramis easy to sex? i would think a pair of them would be able to find a spot in the tank. it is 6' long. but ill have to ask around. 

for the bottom i just have the 9 cories and however many bristle noses i decide to add. one tank has 2 the other has 4.
it was my understanding that 2 clown fish would not be enough, did i miss something?


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Meeting the water needs of the fish you house can REALLY make a super big difference, so I'm glad you found your way there 
That's very odd there on the Sword, not growing/ dieing can either be no/low ferts, which it then wouldn't be in your case or lights: lights that are high in reds and too little blue's, not a full spectrum? Way too much or wayy too lil wattage as a total (far up/down of 1 wpg)?
Uh that sounds like a nice set up for the other plants there - Do you have a chance of pictures there for us?  *Pretty please*
For setting up your new tank, I'd strongly suggest to safe the $ on the flourite, just use fine gravel and if you wanna try Swords again just get plant sticks to be added only for them (from Nutrafin, API etc).

My Boeseman's looks VERY dull when I got them, but some good water, good foods...you see their colors in the pictures....
Your LFS store should be well able to sex you a pair of them - Which one's you wanna get?

Considering a Clowns size of 16-17" (as adult) is why I said i'd not get more, cause all your Bristle Noses and Cory will need some room too, adding like 5-6 Clown's to that would overcrowd the bottom IMO - BUt its your tank not mine


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

your bosemans look awesome. maybe ill give them a shot.
what do you feed your to get the color?

the flourite comes with the 180 tank. just not sure if it may be too sharp for the cories. right now the cories have flourite sand. 
about when i switched to hard water was when my sword went downhill. i also had a red leafed plant, the same one in your pics that just lost the will to live. its too bad cause it was a cool looking plant, it kept sending big leafs to the surface.
I plan on taking all my plants from my 55g and planting them in my 180, and see how things go. 
the 180 has 4 VHO bulbs. not really sure how well those will work for the plants. but i have many flourescent fixtures i could install in the canopy if i wanted to.

ill have to look into the gouramis more. i have enough stock to get the 180 running anyway.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Young Boesemani can be kind of drab looking. But trust me, they turn into a gorgeous fish. Here's a couple pics of mine:


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Gouramis are fairly easy to sex unless they're very young. Typically the male has a longer and more pointed dorsal fin. The female's is shorter and more rounded.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

jeaninel said:


> Young Boesemani can be kind of drab looking. But trust me, they turn into a gorgeous fish. Here's a couple pics of mine:


 
they look great!!!! i think ill get a schoal of them instead of gouramis.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

I generally feed all my fish a wide mixture of various frozen foods, veggy's, pellets (dep on fish size) and sometimes flakes. The Boseman's LOVE frozen shrimp & Bloodworm a LOT.
I can't help you on the flourite stuff for the cory's, if it has sharp edges its not good for them; if the edges are more rounded its ok.
The Hard water had nothig to do with the Sword die, I had Sword in water that had a GH 10-12 and now in water that has no hardness and both grow wild. The red leaf one (like in the 55g Rainbows tank up front) that's a Red Tiger Lotus, I love this plant 

Plants need balance in tanks to thrive: This means CO2 (from fish) - Nutrition (mostly from liquid ferts) - And good light (proper wattage and full spectrum).
If one of this is not balanced properly eg no fish in the tank no CO2 but you add a bunch of liquid ferts your plants won't thrive. Or if you have a good stock of fish there (good CO2 level) and good amount 1x liquid ferts but your lights are super low watt (far below 1wpg) or a poor spectrum eg red only then also the plants won't thrive.
Most common issue in planted tanks why they do not thrive is either not enough nutrition or wrong spectrum of lights.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

here are some pictures of my 55g:

not sure what this plant is but it grows great.









here is some anubias attached to river rocks:









here is the sword that stopped growing:









bamboo, hornwort, and some others i have forgotten:









more hornwort:









hornwort grows good for me:


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

Here are some pics of my 75g:

anubias on driftwood, bamboo, and some kinda mossball:









java moss seeded on log:









java moss on cocconut shell:









more pics:


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

on the 55g i was using twin 4' flourescent bulbs (i used the ones made for plants floraglo aquaglo or something). now i am using 2 compact flourescent bulbs in the custom canopy.

the 75g has 2 compact flourescent bulbs and 1 4' flourescent plant bulb. but it doesnt seem like the light disperses enough. i think the prob is that the comp. fixtures are too close to the water. i am currently building a canopy for the tank. current plan is to just run 2 compact flourescent bulbs in it, but they will be 5' above the tank with no glass cover. hopefully that will help.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

That very first pictures with all the platy on the big plant: That's a Sword 
Nice pictures btw, many nice plants there
Your 3rd picture "the sword that stopped growing" that's a Crypt  looks like a nutrition deficit to me, specially also seeing the green spot alage. What fert are you using there?
Your hornwort sure IS taking over the tank lol.

Yea uhm the "flora" glo is actually not a very ideal spectrum for the plants. What do you have in your DYI hood there now? I found that full spectrum daylights around 6500K works best for my tanks, that's what the larger one's of my aquariums all have, 4ft'ers daylight avg around ~1wpg.

That's what I did on the New 55g, the pictures you see here under my "aquarium" tap to the left, I built the hood and stand myself, added a shop light strip with 2x 4ft daylights and just now uploaded some new pictures too. Looking at pictures from the set up in Nov till newst pic now, wow stuff grew more then I thought it did lol

If I can be of any help on DYI ideas, plant IDs or lighting, please let me know (I don't wanna write a book here unless its info you're actually after lol)


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

i have seachems entire fert. line i was using on the 55g, but it didnt seem to make any diff. so i stopped dosing. all the plants in the 55g are going to be relocated into the 180. so ill have to see how they do there. 

Hmm i thought the narrow long leaves were the swords.......oh well, what do i know 

the green spot has been there since day 1. at least the bristles like it. they basically live on the swords leafs.

the 75g had brown alagae, but once i added the plants and bristles it went away.

i am still in planning phase for the 75g canopy. i work in a machine shop so i have access to aluminum sheet. 
the one issue i found is that a 4' light strip will not fit into a 4' canopy, not with a frame anyway. thats why i went with the compact flourescents. 

the 75 canopy wont have a frame just 1 piece of sheet bent to form the outer skin. so i could fit 4' strips in there, but i was planning on using the higher lumens of the compact flourescents instead.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

There's an imbalance like I tried to explain somewhere earlier: Your weekly ferts PLUS proper lights PLUS proper CO2 fish has to be all in balance for plants to thrive, if one of these factors is not balanced right with the other 2 you'll see the problem you have.
We can excl nutrition there if you say you used to dose weekly and it didn't change anything. I'll also excl lack CO2 judging from the picture with the amount platy there. Which does leave your light in question.
Do you only have a single 4ft tube of this "flora glo" there? What lights did you get for the new tank?

Just so we can be sure we're all talking about the same pictures/ plants:
These are Cypts: Cryptocorynes
These are Swords: Swords

Algae generally occurs when something (again sorry) is out of balance in the tank. So if you eleimiate the factor causing some of your plants not to thrive well, you'll surly also get rid of the alage (trust me I just battled my first ever hardcore algae attack in the new 55g with like 5 diff ugly algae types).

There's tons DYI way's you can go about this for either tank. My 4ft shoo light strip with its 2 bulbs sits RIGHT on the plastic frame that's on the 55g, I built a thin wood frame all around it (see pictures under aquariums).
Alternatively if you have a glass top and just want something to "hold" lights; you can use a gutter (See this thread bottom of page http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...t/adventures-budget-diy-lighting-34614/page2/) Or you can bend whatever shape & size you want to have out of flashing yourself....options are endless. You may wanna browse throught the lighting DYI thread there, plenty of ideas to see there.
What bulb or tube you add there is secondary, whatever you can work with best. What REALLY matters is that whatever bulbs/ tubes you buy to ensure they're full spectrum lamps, a Kelvin rating between 5-6500K (see small print on packages) and right around 1wpg; if you go to Wal-Mart, Lowes, Homedepot you can find these labeled as "Daylights or Ultimate Daylights" by GE, Phillips, Salvinia (sp?). I have these as small tubular screw ins for the 10g's and as florescent strips over the larger tanks, works wonderful for me (and there's plenty other folks on here that swear by these Home store bulbs for planted tanks, simply cause its the same then what you can find at the fish store, just not $20 per bulb but maybe $3-5 per bulb).


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

Angel079 said:


> There's an imbalance like I tried to explain somewhere earlier: Your weekly ferts PLUS proper lights PLUS proper CO2 fish has to be all in balance for plants to thrive, if one of these factors is not balanced right with the other 2 you'll see the problem you have.
> We can excl nutrition there if you say you used to dose weekly and it didn't change anything. I'll also excl lack CO2 judging from the picture with the amount platy there. Which does leave your light in question.
> Do you only have a single 4ft tube of this "flora glo" there? What lights did you get for the new tank?


no on the 55 i used to use 2 4' strips. right now it is using 2 compact flourescent bulbs. one bulb is 10,000k the other is 6,700k. both @65W.

for the 180 the canopy has looks like T5 HO. but right now im not sure if i want that setup. i found a better condition tank. but will have to buy everything else seperately.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

That's almost 2.5 wpg. That's too much in order to balance THAT you'd need extra CO2 and quite some ferts; was this my tank I'd use 2x30w


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

dont see how too much light would cause the crypt to stop growing.all the other plants are growing fine. well it is what it is, cant fit 4' tubes in the canopy. really dont have any other options.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Crypt are plants that like it more on the shady side of things (as some would refer to as "low light"). In high end light situations they don't grow properly even can get as worst as the plants literally melting from the lights.
I'm not suggesting to rebuilt or change anything others then a lower wattage there, just an exchange of bulbs for a more idea plant set up, just trying to be helpful here


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Reading this thread, I agree with Angel on the light. I also see a deficiency in nutrients especially with the swords, it is quite obvious in the photo of the large Echinodorus bleheri. A good comprehensive (complete) liquid fertilizer should help, or substrate fertilizer (like Nutrafin's Plant-Gro sticks or Flourish tablets) just next to the larger sword roots; Echinodorus are very heavy feeders, and being bog plants in nature they have extensive root systems.

When you say you used to use the Flourish line but it made no difference, exactly what were you using? Nutrients are carbon (CO2 from the fish and biological processes), nitrogen (as ammonium from ammonia produced by the fish and natural processes) and 15 minerals. Some of the latter may be in your tap water, some will occur in fish foods; it is risky dosing with ad hoc ferts because when some are in excess certain plants will develop a deficiency in others, and adding more of this or that only worsens it. I can explain more when I have a better understanding of your regime.

Byron.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

i was using flourish, excel, iron, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus once a week.

the problem is they dont make lower wattage compact flourescent. i can get different color temps but that is it. 
as i said that tank is going to be disassembled, so when i get the 180 set up and the plants in ill worry about the lighting and dosing.

i appreciate the advice.

boy did this thread go off topic somewhere?

anyhow what kind of lighting would be recommended for my 75g and my 180g?
the 75g i was thinking of 3 or 4 4' T8 flourescent. 
the 180 being 6' long i have no clue what i am going to do. any ideas?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

iceprizm said:


> i was using flourish, excel, iron, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus once a week.
> 
> the problem is they dont make lower wattage compact flourescent. i can get different color temps but that is it.
> as i said that tank is going to be disassembled, so when i get the 180 set up and the plants in ill worry about the lighting and dosing.
> ...


On the ferts, I would suggest Flourish Comprehensive on its own once or twice a week, give it 3-4 weeks, then assess. For years this has worked for me. I have no CO2 diffusion, and less than 1 watt full spectrum per gallon. Photos under my Aquariums show the results.

And that leads into your light question. Three or four T8's is a lot of light. I have two 48-inch T8 tubes over my 70g (over my 90g and 115g too actually), which is more than enough light for the majority of plants; the photos are proof positive. Rather than repeat the reason this works, you might have a look at my article in the stickies at the top of the "Aquarium Plants" section of this forum, covering the establishement of a natural planted tank, Part Four covers lighting. I'd be happy to follow-up.

Byron.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

i will read your articles once i get some free time.
i have never seen flourish comprehensive, i cant find it on drs. foster either. do you have a link for it?
would that be used instead of root tabs? 

ok 2 48" on the 75g is easy enough to do. 
using that theory maybe 4 36" for the 180g? 2 on each side? what do you think?

now that i think about it i noticed that the hornwort i planted in the back of my 75g has been doing very poorly. while the hornwort planted in the middle or front has been growing excellent. I cant figure out why. i do notice that the black painted back makes the tank look very dark. I have 2 65W compact flourescent and 1 48" T8 that is as far back as it can go.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

iceprizm said:


> i will read your articles once i get some free time.
> i have never seen flourish comprehensive, i cant find it on drs. foster either. do you have a link for it?
> would that be used instead of root tabs?
> 
> ...


Liquid fertilizer and substrate (root tabs & sticks) fertilizer are two very different things. Substrate fertilizers only feed substrate rooted plants (swords, crypts, vallisneria, aponegeton...) and are useless to floating plants, plants that root on rock and wood (Java Fern, Moss, Anubias) and marginally useful to stem plants as these take nutrients from the water via roots along the stems and leaves. Liquid fertilizer will benefit all plants, since nutrients come from the water and are taken up by the roots, and in substrate rooted plants the water passes through the substrate (if it is healthy) and thus gets to the roots. Swords and crypts are heavy feeders, so direct substrate ferts help these, but otherwise liquid works fine. Which is one reason I never bother with enriched substrates, it has limited practical value for the work and fuss.

Seachem makes several plant products as you know. One of them is called "Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium" and this is a basic comprehensive fert, although designed to be used with some of their other products. I used this one alone for more than a year with very good results. Fertilizers are somewhat Dependant upon your tap water which may have some minerals in it, and some minerals occur in fish foods. Another good comprehensive fert is Kent Freshwater Supplement. I used this for more than 12 years.

Re the 180g, as you are thinking along the lines of T8 light I would aim for 1 watt per gallon, and have the tubes distributed so that the entire length of the tank is covered. Before doing this, I would check to see what lengths the tubes come in. For example, you can buy very inexpensive full spectrum tubes made by Phillips and Sylvania and others from hardware stores like Home Depot, but I'm not sure if they come in various sizes. I have seen them in 48-inch tubes, but not smaller in my local HD. As 48-inch is a very common and standard length, it might be advisable to use this and be assured of having an open filed on types of tubes.

Last on the Hornwort, it may be the light. Daylight is probably entering the tank from the front, and supplementing the light requirement of hornwort. I certainly would not change the background; black or a dark background does wonders for the plant and fish colours, and there is the issue of light effect on the fish that I've written of elsewhere.

Byron.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

i looked on seachems website and couldnt find the supplement you reccomend, maybe they stopped making it?

ok 180 lighting: 5 T8s=160W or 6 T8s=192W the which would i be better off with? i was thinking the 6 bulb setup. 3 bulbs on each side overlapping in the middle. i dont see any other way of setting it up. any ideas?

hornwort: there is absolutely no daylight entering the tank. i can say there is no daylight in my entire house. i keep it like a cave. the plants dying were the bunches i bought. the clippings i took from those bunches are growing well. maybe i clipped the bunches too much. at one point they were past the top of the tank, i cut them to half that lenght.

oh and i looked for the bulbs you reccomend in your sticky, i found the 6500k but that was the highest they had. No 7500k....this was in Walmart, i will have to try home depot.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

iceprizm said:


> i looked on seachems website and couldnt find the supplement you reccomend, maybe they stopped making it?
> 
> ok 180 lighting: 5 T8s=160W or 6 T8s=192W the which would i be better off with? i was thinking the 6 bulb setup. 3 bulbs on each side overlapping in the middle. i dont see any other way of setting it up. any ideas?
> 
> ...


The Flourish Comprehensive is the first item they list, here's the link to the details page; they only call it "Flourish" but on the bottle it has the entire name.
Seachem. Flourish
As you'll note there, potassium and phosphorus are not included, they want you to buy those individually. I never have, and until now have had no issues.

On the light, were it me I would go with 4 48-inch 40w tubes. I know this is short of the 1 wpg but on my 115g I have two 40w 48-inch T8 tubes and it is plenty. This tank is five feet in length, and the tubes are parallel, so not end to end. Assuming your 180 is six feet length, I would have one rear tube from the left side, the next parallet tube start from the right side, then from the left, then the right again so they are staggered.

The 7500K was a number for blue, I don't know if there is a tube at that kelvin, I don't have any. Mine are all around 6500 or 6700K. If you are going with the hardware store tubes, something like Phillips or Sylvania daylight is full spectrum, and the enhanced or ultra daylight is cooler. Sometimes the K numbers are a bit misleading too. I know of these tubes because I used them for 12 years, and still use the "blue" ones which are Phillips "Daylight Deluxe" at I think 6500K or thereabouts--but they are "cooler" than the regular daylight.

Hornwort--when you trim off the tops the bottom parts should be removed. They never grow nice again. Most stem plants should regularly be trimmed by pulling them up, cutting off the top as much as you want, plant the tops and toss out the lower bits. I do this with my Pennywort every second week or it would be across the surface at at that point the lower leaves disintegrate. As stem plants grow, they grow toward the light source, so the lower leaves will fall off eventually, some plant species more than others.

B.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

oh ok the flourish i have. i thought it was something else.

like this:
-----------------------------xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx-------------------------------------
-----------------------------xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx--------------------------------------
i didnt know 48" T8 came in 40W
i was just going by your sticky....said to use 1 6500K and 1 7500K. Do you use all daylight deluxe or do you mix with another kind?

hornwort--that explains everything, i will remember that the next time i trim. Thanks


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

iceprizm said:


> oh ok the flourish i have. i thought it was something else.
> 
> like this:
> -----------------------------xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ...


H'm, I'll take a look at my article and clarify that. The K numbers are just examples of light colour.

I explain in the article about blue and red being important for plants, so with that in mind I always use one full spectrum and one cool white on my larger tanks (two tubes each). I try tubes before I stay with them, by which I mean when I buy one it is always with the understanding (from the store) that I can return it in exchange for another. While the kelvin number and the spectrum graph are useful guides, until you light the tube over your aquarium you really can't be sure. And appearance is also important, I don't want the purplish or spectral hue that almost all so-called "aquarium" or "plant" tubes give.

One full spectrum around 6500K; in order of cost (highest first to least): Hagen make an excellent one, Life-Glo and Life-Glo 2 [difference in these is the intensity, the Life-Glo has a special coating inside that directs/focuses the light out one half the tube rather than all around, so it is slightly more intense, and on single-tube tanks like my 33g I use one of these, otherwise the Life-Glo 2 is fine]. Zoo Med make a similar tube called Ultra Sun at (I think) 6500K. Phillips makes a full spectrum called Daylight, very close. And Sylvania has one similarly named [used to get these at Home Depot but in Canada they now carry Phillips only]. There are others but these are ones I have used so I am more comfortable recommending them.

For the "cool white", there is the Lightning Rod 11,000K Ultra Daylight. Phillips and Sylvannia have a similar (though not so much blue but more than the Daylight) called Daylight Deluxe [Sylvania's name is similar]. My second tube on the 115g is currently a Lightning Rod, and on the 90g and 70g a Phillips Daylight Deluxe.

All of these tubes are good light. It really comes down to your preference in colour rendition. I want the fish and plant colours to be natural, and I want the light as little as necessary so the plants will grow but the fish will not be subjected to brighter light than what is essential for plant growth. Fish are still the paramount item in my aquaria, and their relaxed bearing under less light is important.

40 watts is the standard for all 48-inch tubes in T8 or T12 (regular). Some manufacturers now make 32 watt tubes, Zoo Med for one, and say they are as intense as 40w but less wattage which means less energy used. This is possible due to the makeup of the phosphors inside the tube. The T5 HO tubes are different, 54 watts is standard for 48-inch, but the intensity is 1.5 times greater than the same length tube in T8, so here again the wattage is not an indication of intensity, just energy used.

Byron.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

May I add..Whether you chose to go for the pricey Petstore bulbs or the same cheap bulbs from the home store; given you're gonna add several bulbs its advisable for best results (IMO) to mix them, eg Daylight, Ultra Daylight and Softwhite etc
On any of my larger tanks that you see in the aquarium log the bulbs are mixtures of the above mentioned, plants in these tanks speak for themselves (and on a neat side note it REALLY rings out the fish colors better).


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

right now i put 2 T8 philips daylight deluxe in my 75G. they are very brite maybe a little too bright. the color seems the same as my compact flourescents.

angel, i like your rainbow 55G, where did you get that substrate? looks nice.....would like something like that for my 180.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Just see how its working for your fish/ plants AND your eyes once its all done. Worst case exchange 1 of the tubes for a soft daylight (that's what Lowes calls 'em here anyway)

I just answered your PMs and send links  Glad to hear you like one of my tanks


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Completely off topic, but back to the original question. How about a school of Roseline Barbs, Puntius denisonii ? One of my favorite Barbs and absolutely a good fit with Rainbows.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Pasfur said:


> Completely off topic, but back to the original question. How about a school of Roseline Barbs, Puntius denisonii ? One of my favorite Barbs and absolutely a good fit with Rainbows.


They are also a good fit with Congos, which iceprizm already has in the tank now.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Roseline barbs? Jeez, these fish just cannot have enough common names, can they? From Wikipedia alone: "*...red lined torpedo barb*, *roseline shark*, *bleeding eye barb*, or *Denison's barb..."*


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

iamntbatman said:


> Roseline barbs? Jeez, these fish just cannot have enough common names, can they? From Wikipedia alone: "*...red lined torpedo barb*, *roseline shark*, *bleeding eye barb*, or *Denison's barb..."*


Bleeding eye barb? Never heard that one before. I just walked over and looked at mine, their eyes don't look "bleeding" to me. :-? I wanted to add to this thread that my LFS has a large tank with rainbows, congos and Puntius denisonii and it's quite the display.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

iamntbatman said:


> Roseline barbs? Jeez, these fish just cannot have enough common names, can they? From Wikipedia alone: "*...red lined torpedo barb*, *roseline shark*, *bleeding eye barb*, or *Denison's barb..."*


Exactly why I love scientific names. It gets very confusing.

Heck, try talking to somebody about a Blue Tang in saltwater. Could be any number of different species.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

wow $30 each. does anyone have a pic of theirs they can post??????? they would be a good add with my rainbows, congos, cories?

so i am looking at bosemanis, more cories, torquise rainbows, and maybe Torpedo Barb (Puntius denisonii)


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Uuhhhhh love that stock list; Can't offer you a pic of the Torpedo's; but it sure is a nice mixture of fish there!!!


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

iceprizm said:


> wow $30 each. does anyone have a pic of theirs they can post??????? they would be a good add with my rainbows, congos, cories?
> 
> so i am looking at bosemanis, more cories, torquise rainbows, and maybe Torpedo Barb (Puntius denisonii)


I have a pic of my school under "my aquariums" but they move so fast when I've got a camera in hand it's hard to get a good shot of them. (Plus my camera isn't that great. :-() They are GREAT fish and very peaceful. Worth every penny, as far as I'm concerned. They would be an excellent add to your proposed stock list. You'll have a tank I'll be quite envious of.


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## iceprizm (Aug 7, 2008)

ok its been awhile but i am starting to look for my fish. but the place i am looking to order from doesnt stock torquise rainbows.

I am looking for a colorful rainbow to go with my austrailian, blue neon, and bosemans, any suggestions?


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