# Malaysiant trumpet snail only tank?



## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Hey guyes, I'm going to be getting some malaysian trumpet snails for my 55 gallon tank, and I was curious if they would be able to live on their owns permanently.

I'm not worried about the 55 gallon, since they won't be in there alone for very long, but I was thinking of how it would be to put a few of them into this 1 gallon mini aquarium I have.

I figured I could put an inch of my playsand in the bottom of it, and I didn't think a heater or filter would be necessary, but if I do need a filter, i would just go with a small sponge filter if anything.


The tank just has a small light bulb for display, but with only a gallon of water, i think the bulb might possibly sustain a little bit of java moss/fern if I put it in there too, but thats something else I'm curious of.


I have seen all over about how easy it is to keep them going, and even how hard it is to get rid of them, but thats always in an established tank, so I wasn't sure if anyone had experience, or even thought of doing a snail only tank.


I really don't want to use the 1g for even a betta, although maybe a couple shrimp would be okay in there, but even that i don't know about, and snails seemed like they would be fine as far as a gallon being enough, so i was just curious to see if anyone had any input.


I could maybe switch decorations out from time to time between the snail tank and my tank, so they had algae to eat, or maybe feed them with crushed up flake food in very small amounts or something, or if I ever did have shrimp, it would seem like I could just take care of the shrimp, and the snails would just kind of do their own thing.



Any thoughts are appreciated!
Thanks

(just checked and it's a 7 watt incandescent bulb, I suppose it would be 7 watts to the 1 gallon so in that theory it should work, but I don't know how well that calculation works in extremely small figures like 1 gallon or 7 watts.)


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, I have the 1 gallon with some playsand in it, a few little rocks, and a fake plant just for my own greed for the time being.


Before it has anything living in it, the fake plant will be gone, and I might try and cover the back wall with java moss(it is a triangle tank)

It is the aquaview 1 gallon tank, that seems to have sucked in many a potential fish hobbyist, but it seems to be unsuitable for even a betta's happiness. it does however have a kind of neat design, as it is a triangle shape, but it has two extra walls(so I guess it's more pentagonal) which are short and in the back of it, and I was thinking it would be very easy, and not bothersome to me to have a small airstone on one wall, and a small sponge filter on the other, so I'd kind of like that idea if this project even seemed plausible.


I plan on sticking with the playsand, and possibly adding topsoil underneath(was reading into walstad, but don't know how much it would help me since I plan on having the sponge now, and I have no problem with regular water changes, and it seems that that thick layer of soil would leave me with no room for water lol)


I would still be going with snails, java fern, and java moss, but if I have it set up how I'm thinking with the sponge and airstone, does anyone think that the gallon would be suitable enough for two cherry shrimp or so?

I plan on turning my 10 gallon into a mini community tank with shrimp, snails, a small school of brass tetra(I think these were the ones that had a flourescent blue tip on their fins) and possibly a betta, but the fish I'm still unsure of, need to figure out what can do well together in a ten gallon.
I also considered possibly having the shrimp snails, and only a betta in the tank, and not bothering with other fish, but thats still a little while off.



So back to the actual question, does a 1 gallon tank, with a small airstone and a small sponge filter, with java moss and java fern, playsand, and a few small rocks, and some malaysian trumpet snails, as well as one to five cherry red shrimp seem at all sustainable?


Thanks to anyone, and sorry for the double post, just thought of some more things after throwing it together.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

An MTS-only tank sounds...well, I'll be honest: it sounds pretty boring. MTS burrow through the substrate so if you had a sandy bottom, you'd basically be looking at a tank full of water with no visible life in it. Not to slight MTS - they're great critters - but I would want something more interesting in there if it were my tank. I think shrimp could work (maybe 5-10 cherry shrimp).


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

If that's the set up you want, go for it!!!

As far as adding shrimp to the tank for the "view" then you'd need to do more to the tank then what's there now, live plants and a sponge filter. That said however I'd rather add ghost shrimp then red cherry as they will not over populate the small 1g in no time and run out of room; for a good group of shrimp with room to grow you'd look at at least 3g tank.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> If that's the set up you want, go for it!!!
> 
> As far as adding shrimp to the tank for the "view" then you'd need to do more to the tank then what's there now, live plants and a sponge filter. That said however I'd rather add ghost shrimp then red cherry as they will not over populate the small 1g in no time and run out of room; for a good group of shrimp with room to grow you'd look at at least 3g tank.


That fake plants really there just for looks until I have my stuff, I plan on having java fern and moss in there if it can live, and I've been thinking since I have those two random 2" walls in the back, I wouldn't mind throwing a sponge on one of them.

I do plan on having my 10 gallon as a shrimp farm once my goldfish are in the 55 gallon tank, so I figured I could keep any overcrowding shrimp in that, as I would really just love having one to maybe 4 or 5 shrimp in this mini tank(depending on how many could live happily in there)


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

iamntbatman said:


> An MTS-only tank sounds...well, I'll be honest: it sounds pretty boring. MTS burrow through the substrate so if you had a sandy bottom, you'd basically be looking at a tank full of water with no visible life in it. Not to slight MTS - they're great critters - but I would want something more interesting in there if it were my tank. I think shrimp could work (maybe 5-10 cherry shrimp).


Would a one gallon tank really be big enough for 5-10 cherry shrimp??

I think it would be awesome to have 5 or more in the little tank, I would just be worried about their well-being.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Rather then repeating I'd really suggest to read over this http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-shrimp/general-guide-shrimp-keeping-37012/

I've been breeding RCS for many yrs now and I'd def not suggest that particular shrimp nor the group of 10 for a 1g tank, just be a lil more patient and set up the 10g for them, the breeding end result will be worth it trust me. Unfortunately its often wrongly assumed that shrimp contrary to fish "don't need no room" and that's not the case as they're VERY active lil buggers.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> Rather then repeating I'd really suggest to read over this http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-shrimp/general-guide-shrimp-keeping-37012/
> 
> I've been breeding RCS for many yrs now and I'd def not suggest that particular shrimp nor the group of 10 for a 1g tank, just be a lil more patient and set up the 10g for them, the breeding end result will be worth it trust me. Unfortunately its often wrongly assumed that shrimp contrary to fish "don't need no room" and that's not the case as they're VERY active lil buggers.


If I was a little unclear, I plan on doing this all around the same timeframe, once the snails and plants get here, i would be putting some into the one gallon tank, and in the 55 gallon tank, then after a short while, the goldfish would be going to the 55 gallon tank, and at the same time I would get the shrimp for the 10 gallon tank, I would mainly be breeding and raising the shrimp in the 10 gallon tank, as it is already established, a good size tank, and I will have it freed up.

But I would like to be able to keep just several, like I mentioned I figured 1-5 depending on how healthy it would be for them, in the 1 gallon tank, less for breeding purposes, more just for a nice tank to have thats a little less crowded and complicated, but that would be after the 1 gallon is cycled, which would probably be after the 10 gallon is already set up for breeding.

i would not be taking a berried female from the 10 gallon for it, but rather try to take one male and one female, and put them into the 1 gallon, and if anything happened, let things take their course.



Although I haven't done a ton of research, it seemed that cherry red shrimp were the easiest to breed, so I'm not sure if you're just saying they would not be suggested for the 1 gallon, or if you just wouldn't suggest them at all.

I've looked into amano shrimp a little bit, and it seems that they are very hard to breed, and involve brackish water to do so, and although it's still a long time, the several year lifespan seems like it would just be too short if I only had the one or two shrimp.


I figured more of breeding the shrimp in my 10 gallon, and if they could be healthy, keeping a small number of them in the 1 gallon, rather than trying to breed them in the 1 gallon or anything silly like that.


Does it seem like 2 red cherry shrimp would be able to live a decent life in a 1 gallon tank with good conditions?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't see why not.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Got ya!
10g is perfect for them. And yes I meant not ideal to keep a group/ breed in a 1g spc since its not cycled yet cause they're extremely sensitive to NO's. But yea a established 10g sounds perfect. What kinda filter do you have on the 10g now? I pref sponge filters to breed shrimp so they don't get sucked in any filter, but if you have a HOB or alike just pull a sock/ cloth etc over the intake to make it safe.

You can add RCS to the 1g as well once established and just 'scoop' out any newcomers. Personally I wouldn't wanna have 2 tanks set up with the same shrimp I'd do RCS in the 10g and maybe Ghost in the 1g or something like that, know what I mean? Just different one's to look at...

Just like with fish, whether you get RCS or any other one, the key is always good quality water (NO copper in the water!!!!) and some good quality food (but don't overfeed) and just like with fish everything will do fine from there on. Shrimp in general just react much quicker and more extreme to anything 'unusual' in the water may that be a rise in NO's because its not established or Copper from old water lines. 

What I like for the breeder tanks is "walls" made from Java moss, the baby's hide in there and feel safe and once they're a few mm big you'll find them coming out of there; generally the more plants are in their set up's the better for them/ the water quality.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> Got ya!
> 10g is perfect for them.
> ...
> water quality.



I currently have an Aqueon 10 HOB filter for the ten gallon, but I plan on getting a few sponge filters, and letting them seed in the tank alongside the HOB filter, and then once the goldfish move out and I'm confident the sponges are well seeded, I would be using a sponge filter in the 10 gallon, and a sponge filter in the 1 gallon, and the HOB would be in the 55 to help seed that, and then eventually I would just get another 10g and use the HOB for it, kind of killing a bunch of birds with one stone I guess.

I want to try and do a java moss wall on the back of the 1 gallon, and I want to get a chunk of slate or something, and cover that with moss, and add some more plant life for the 10g, all preferably before I get the shrimp, so they have a happy place to live.

The one gallon is just a small tank I really like, but don't have much use for, and I thought it would be really nice to just use it for the malaysian trumpet snails as a nice view at my desk, but then the thought of adding a few shrimp seemed like it might be nice. I would be adding freshly born shrimp when I had them, so they would hopefully be better able to handle the conditions of a not perfectly established tank, since I can't put a fish in the tank to cycle it for them, but I will have a seeded sponge, plants, and possibly even the sand if that can get seeded. 

I'd really rather just stick with one breed of shrimp, and I really like cherry red shrimp, so I figure I would just stick with them, rather than having multiple species.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

You can just wash the filter pad from the HOB out in the 10g after installing the sponge, the muck you'll see coming off from it is all the seeding you need right there.

Here's 2 ideas from my two 10g's one is a moss wall in its early stages (wayyyy denser now) and the other one is set up with local rock and hair grass...just some ideas :-D


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> You can just wash the filter pad from the HOB out in the 10g after installing the sponge, the muck you'll see coming off from it is all the seeding you need right there.
> 
> Here's 2 ideas from my two 10g's one is a moss wall in its early stages (wayyyy denser now) and the other one is set up with local rock and hair grass...just some ideas :-D


Wow, thats a million times more heavily planted than I would have thought of.

I suppose I should get some more plants for the 10 lol.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Also wanted to point something out-

With your current setup, I'm not sure any plant would do well.

Also, do you have a thermometer on the 1G? Incandescents produce a LOT of heat- You wouldn't want to turn your shrimp into gumbo would ya?
Plus most of their light is in the red spectrum while aquatic plants don't use hardly any red...

I'd reccoment some small cool white (6500k) compact flourescent if it will fit...If not, perhaps some cool white LED lights.... I could walk you through building a light if you needed me to.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Wanna see some tanks that are a lil more filled with plants? Cause I consider my 10 g's VERY lightly planted :-D here's some of my 55's and 45's...
The hairgrass one I only put in 2x hairgrass, 1x Stargrass and 2 Java's :lol:


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

redchigh said:


> Also wanted to point something out-
> 
> With your current setup, I'm not sure any plant would do well.
> 
> ...


Actually with how small that is I think setting up an led light would be easy enough, it's just in the bigger tanks that I'd worry about even light and such, but with the mini tank I think it'd be easy enough to manage, and I'll just run it from my 12v adapter with a resistor on there, no thermometer yet, but when I used to have it with a thermo and the light on it seemed to hover around 74 if I recall, but it'll be set up with a thermometer and sponge, and probably leds now that you put the idea in my head.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> Wanna see some tanks that are a lil more filled with plants? Cause I consider my 10 g's VERY lightly planted :-D here's some of my 55's and 45's...
> The hairgrass one I only put in 2x hairgrass, 1x Stargrass and 2 Java's :lol:


Geez, I figure I'll be waiting ages to get anything that doesn't look empty from my two 3"x5"~ patches of java moss and my small "bunch" of java fern that are coming in next week.

Oh well, only time will tell.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Ages? Def NOT I built the Java moss wall for a standard 10g started with 1/4 cup of Java moss then built half the wall and about 3-4 weeks later off of its growth the 2nd half and now its covering the entire back wall and sticks out into the tank ranging 2-3".
With the right light/spectrum and proper nutrition (fert) as I keep on saying, plants will thrive in no time at all and then you'll sit and trim & clip each weekend to keep it from taking over everything. That goes for any plant not just java moss btw :-D


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> Ages? Def NOT I built the Java moss wall for a standard 10g started with 1/4 cup of Java moss then built half the wall and about 3-4 weeks later off of its growth the 2nd half and now its covering the entire back wall and sticks out into the tank ranging 2-3".
> With the right light/spectrum and proper nutrition (fert) as I keep on saying, plants will thrive in no time at all and then you'll sit and trim & clip each weekend to keep it from taking over everything. That goes for any plant not just java moss btw :-D


Well, I would prefer not to be fertilizing in the long run, since I'm trying to keep as low tech as possible on everything, and with the lowest cost, but does it seem like if i were to fertilize in the beginning to get things to a close point to what I want, and then cut off fertilizing they would still do okay just with slower growth, or does it seem like they would get a shock from losing their fertilizers and have problems?

Although if fertilizing isn't too expensive i suppose I wouldn't have much arguments against it, with java moss/fern would there be a suggested fertilizer?


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

I don't fert in no tanks neither and most def not in my shrimp tanks. What I meant with the nutrition's either you have a well enough combo of good quality source water/ co2, mulm built up etc so that your plants will do well like in my tanks cases; or if you are lacking certain nutrition you'll need to supplement with what the pet store sells which you'll notice by slow / no growth, holes in leaves, yellow leaves etc.

I'd not rec starting dosing fert's now and then stop them that'll def not go down well with your plants to just stop the extra food for them one day. Just plant, ensure you have a proper light like I said around 6500 Kelvin and not too high watt's in relation to your tank size (eg. my 55g has 30w t8 over it) and see what your plants do from there and go from there. "Worst" case you'll need to buy one bottle of 'Flourish comprehensive' (which is the fert i'd recommend in any case if anything is used) a year and that's like $8-10 somewhere's in that range, so NOT a budget killer by no means.

If you main thing for your tank is going to be Java moss I'd REALLY not worry about ferts at all!! ;-) From my yrs of experience now plants that thrive in just about the "worst" of conditions are plants like java moss, pennywort, vallis, hygrophilia, rotala - Just to name a few since I don't know what size tank you wanna built. But if the main thing is the Java moss pfffftt forget the fert IMO seriously :-D


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> I don't fert in no tanks neither and most def not in my shrimp tanks. What I ...built. But if the main thing is the Java moss pfffftt forget the fert IMO seriously :-D


Well that's definitely good to hear. I'm sure the plants should be happy in the 10 gallon then, with the mulm, the good water quality, and I'll get a new light to ensure that's good.

I'm not sure how well things will go in the 55 gallon though, since it's not established yet, and won't be until after I have the plants and snails.

I would hate to put all my plants in the 10 gallon and have the goldfish chow down on them, but at the same time it seems like the best assurance that the plants would survive as far as conditions.

Any suggestions on how my water should be in the 55 gallon to have good luck with the java moss and java fern without having it cycled or established, or even with fish?


And on the topic of CO2, does it really seem necessary with just the java moss and java fern? I'd really like to be able to avoid having to do it, but if it's really going to make that much of a difference I will. Both tanks have lots of oxygen, the 10g with a large airstone(which may or may not be removed), and the 55g has water breaking and aggitating the surface all day, as well as I might put a large bubble wand in there(since my goldfish seem to love bubbles) so I'm not sure if that's something that will take so much of the CO2 out of the tanks that i really will need to have a co2 setup or something.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

You don't need to worry about adding CO2 with low-light plants like that and regular lighting. CO2 is only really needed when you've got demanding plants and high enough light to make it worthwhile.

Java moss and java fern are ludicrously hard to kill. I have java moss surviving (with no die-off whatsoever) in tanks with totally non-plant-friendly lighting (ridiculously low lumens and color temperatures around 2300K). Granted, it tends to grow like crazy in tanks with better lighting, but unless you poison it or something I can't imagine how you would go about killing the stuff.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Do you know anyone that has a established larger tank around you that's sickness free (NOT the LFS!)? Then you could just ask to borrow a filter pad and seed your 55g for the goldfish and it would be ready to go for the fish in mins.

I'm really not a goldfish expert but I'd wanna doubt it eats the plants, or rather I'd hope so.

The plants will help you cycle & establish the tank so you can add your plants from day one there's absolutely no need to wait for any cycle adding plants, the moment you add gravel, water and your filter you can add plants in there.

I'm sorry I think I written the other post pretty poorly. The main co2 supply in any tank is coming from your fish which is why I never add any co2 to my tanks as they're properly stocked and that's sufficient enough right there for the plants and you seen my tanks with the variety of plants I grow in it without any adding stuff to it.

That said however in ANY tank you plant do NOT add air-stone in them ever unless you need to treat for a certain sickness requiring it. The air-stone will drive out the necessary co2 for the plants so that's totally not helpful at all for thriving plants. The fish will supply your plants with co2 and in return the plants will supply your fish with air, so no need for them things.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> Do you know anyone that has a established larger tank around you that's sickness free (NOT the LFS!)? Then you could just ask to borrow a filter pad and seed your 55g for the goldfish and it would be ready to go for the fish in mins.
> 
> I'm really not a goldfish expert but I'd wanna doubt it eats the plants, or rather I'd hope so.
> 
> ...


Guess I'll be skipping out on the airstone, my fish will be giving me dirty looks for awhile I'm sure lol, but they'll get over it.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Got the snails in today, took a picture of them in the 10 gallon, put most of them in there since it's established, and a few in the 55.











Didn't notice any dead ones, if there was one or two in there they're mixed into the tank, but I'm not worried about that being a problem.

They were sent with some duckweed, so I put that in the tanks, I'm not really worried about it being a nuisance taking over the tank, since it seems that goldfish love the stuff. Even if it is a nuisance, I'll just be cutting it back regularly, which doesn't bother me too much.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Now duckweed I'd take a scoop full each week and add to the goldfish tank, he/she is gonna appreciate the lil snack for sure.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Angel079 said:


> Now duckweed I'd take a scoop full each week and add to the goldfish tank, he/she is gonna appreciate the lil snack for sure.



I actually just threw some duckweed in the goldfishies tank, and some into the 55 gallon, I figure it'll be a snack source for them, and hopefully it won't kill them by them eating too much of it, but I suppose thats something I should maybe find out about.

I'm amazed at these snails though, there's one great big one, looks like he's about max size at an inch, or maybe a bit bigger, and he's gone to town on a clay pot I had, and cleared just a pathway of algae right off of it, in just an hour he managed that.

I definitely think I'm going to enjoy these little guys when I see them.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Like I said I have never had goldfish but I do supply duckweed to my neighbor who has got several different kinds goldfish and they snack it a lil but not like a whole scoop net full of it in one day and they def don't die from it.

I LOVEEEEE MTS I have some in every tank simply cause the way they can manage to clean your gravel and sand us with our tools would never be able to do that; especially on sand tanks that I don't gravel vac due to shrimp baby's they do a outstanding job!


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