# Chiclid tank got me thinking.....



## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Ive heard of people overcrowding chiclid tanks to lower aggression on one particular fish, assuming they have correct filter and good water maintenance. So that brings me to my question.

Could you do that with female bettas in a ten gallon tank?? I have four in a ten gallon and would like to add some more once the ones i have now are healthy. I have a whisper 10i filter. What % of the water would i need to change every week?? Its planted so that would help with ammonia and what not.

Your thoughts??​


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

I would think that four in a 10 gallon is the upper end of your tank/filter capacity. Seeing as bettas are a sedate fish, I don't think they would do well in the water flow that you would generate while trying to overfilter an overloaded tank... particularly a small one.

Jeff.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

It's the same thing, just applied to a different kind of fish. I don't know enough about betta "sororities" to comment on its effectiveness. However, I know enough about bettas to say that they are not territorial in the same way as African cichlids, so I would think its likely to not work the same way. With Africans, because of the way that territories are carved up in the tank and because of the number of threats to each's territory, it is sufficient for them to simply drive the other fish out. Because bettas don't have such well defined territories, I think one is more likely to follow another around, an there is MUCH more fin to be nipped. Some people think that their fishs fins have to be perfect, however, when keeping more aggressive fish, this is not always attainable. I know in my experience as a professional fisherman, it's very common to see less than perfect fins. With regular fish, it's not really that big a deal, aesthetically speaking. However, bettas have beautiful fins that don't look good when they are damaged, and they don't heal as well as regular fish. Personally, I keep fish in part to admire their beauty, and since a significant portion of a bettas beuaty is tied up in its fins, I would be very hesitant to subject them to conditions that might result in them having anything but beautiful fins. But that's just me.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

JDM - By "upper end of filter capacity" do you count just the filter?? Or plants too?? I want to bump it back up to 5 bettas, like it was before he turned out to be a male >.< Filter capacity has always confused me

Jaysee - Good point on how they would look. I hadn't thought of that before. I think ill just add one betta after my two sick ones are better, so there more focused on each other. Would adding shrimp be a good idea??


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Are Shrimp a good idea? In what regard? What species?


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Red cherry shrimp. By good idea I mean will they all get eaten?? I have anacharis for them to hide in, but will that be enough??


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Yes, they will get eaten - shrimp are at the bottom of the aquatic food chain. Will they all be eaten? Only one way to find out. I think the best thing to do would be to let the shrimp colony establish itself prior to the bettas being in the tank. Probably not possible though. There's really only one way to find out if it'll work for you...


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Pearl2011 said:


> JDM - By "upper end of filter capacity" do you count just the filter?? Or plants too?? I want to bump it back up to 5 bettas, like it was before he turned out to be a male >.< Filter capacity has always confused me


4 bettas in a 10 gallon is just getting full, 5 would probably be fine. It does make a difference if they are all of the same species as I understand that you can get away with more numbers due the less stress with no interspecies issues... and females are smaller than males I think. If you have planted lots of plants, the filter is really just for circulation and to remove particles from the water for your viewing pleasure so it's the filter that I don't count, as long as it is right sized for the tank.

I added shrimp, cherry shrimp. I started with 4 and figured that if all four were still there a week later I would up the numbers. They were, I went to 10 and I cannot tell if we have 10 anymore but I do see as many as four at a time so I suspect they were OK.

Having said that, they are in a 37 gallon tank with craggy driftwood that hey can hang out in. The fish cannot at them like they might in a plant but I have seen no fish actually try to take a bite out of one as they are fast.

Oh, see if you can get mostly grown ones, 7/8" is a decent size as they don't fit in anyone's mouth very well so they have a better chance.

Jeff.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Unfortunately I only have two bettas now and will be getting a divider tomorrow. Would they have a better chance with the more docile betta?? I don't think I have ever seen her chase another fish expect when I first set it up. A nice big clump of anacharis would help, I guess.

We'll see what i do with this tank. Not sure since I had to euthanize two fish yesterday


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

In my sorority, adding more girls hasn't been a problem. newbies might get a little scarced, or try bossing the others around, but everyone settles down in a week or two. i overstock a bit, and think if jts well planted you'd be fine with six or seven girls in a ten gallon. i also don't subscribe to the "remove everyone, rearrange, readd in order of aggression" theory. hasn't made a difference for me.

my girls, though, would NOT do well with shrimp. they absolutely DESTROY snails. there are so many big ramshorn shells laying empty around that tank, i know they'd destroy shrimp. However i have a very chill male who has five ghost shrimp buddies in his tank that he ignores.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

djembekah said:


> In my sorority, adding more girls hasn't been a problem. newbies might get a little scarced, or try bossing the others around, but everyone settles down in a week or two. i overstock a bit, and think if jts well planted you'd be fine with six or seven girls in a ten gallon. i also don't subscribe to the "remove everyone, rearrange, readd in order of aggression" theory. hasn't made a difference for me.
> 
> my girls, though, would NOT do well with shrimp. they absolutely DESTROY snails. there are so many big ramshorn shells laying empty around that tank, i know they'd destroy shrimp. However i have a very chill male who has five ghost shrimp buddies in his tank that he ignores.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a divider in right now and Speckles looks less stressed, she was never very good in the sorority. Ruby is a complete bully and could easily kill the teeny little females they had at the LFS. They weren't even half her size. Maybe I could get a bigger snail like an apple snail?? I really want to try with some kind of invert so my tank has a bit more diversity. I really dont like the look of Ramshorns or Malaysian Trumpet snails. 

If I have one apple snail on each side of the divider would that work?? And can they reproduce with themselves like some snails?? Or something like that.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

in respects to bekahs not rearranging thigns around with additions ive tried this and then nont done it. with the Africans I tried this with it didn't see to make a difference, there was still aggression to the new guy but he eventually settled into his own area. now when I moved stuff around it was a little bit more spread across everyone but there was still aggression. was their more or less with the move b4 a new guy? less towards the new guy when stuff was moved but then the whoel tank was chasing. when I didn't move the established territories the new guy was chased around but the others didn't chase too far from their crater. but the new guy eventually settled in after a few days.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

Apple snails reproduce sexually but females can hold sperm for months and still lay eggs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

djembekah said:


> Apple snails reproduce sexually but females can hold sperm for months and still lay eggs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So the guppies of the invert world?? Thats going to be fun :/ How long does it take aple snails to get big?? I have little ones in my 25 gallon and they drive me absolutely INSANE. When do repriduce are little worm like things part of the stage when they grow up??


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

I don't know a TON about apple snails, but from my research they seem to grow fairly fast in their first few months and then slow down as they reach adulthood. If you've got a lot of babies, try trading them in for fish store credit?

i haven't read anything about little worm things in any snail reproduction...though leeches sometimes like to attach themselves to snails, at least rabbit snails.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

So what the heck are the little wormy thing in my big tank if they're not snails larvae things.....oh crap...

Trading them in is a good idea, I could see if my LFS does that.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

could be nematodes of some kind!


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

djembekah said:


> could be nematodes of some kind!


Will they hurt the fish and how hard are they to get out of a tank??

They scared the daylight out of me when i was picking out snails..


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

I dont know a ton about random tank bugs, but i think in most cases, you're fine


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Well, time to obsessively research them, get convinced it will kill and fish I get, then calm down and realize the world wont end. Same process as usual.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

lol. don't get too worried  sometimes the fish eat tank bugs.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

seeing something like that in ur tank while ur hand in there is kinda like when I was trying to pet my daughters goldfish a week or so ago. had my hand in the water and was waiting for it to come up to my hand.... after my hand was in there for a good 5 miniutes or so I noticed a nasty anchorworm latched on it. yea was very gross...


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