# fish aquarium ammonia why wont it go down???



## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Ok for the pass days i been having problems with ammonia in my month and a half old 3gal tank, 3 Days ago i bought a api freshwater test kit and when i tested for ammonia it readed 8.0 ppm So i called my local fishstore and they gave me prime which said it will take care of it but for the pass 2 days i been giving a dose which is 6 drops with a 25% and a 50% water change and it still reads on the dark side which is 8.0 ppm..


I would like too get this too normal because i don't want it too kill my fish which i have 4 in there now which is 2 neons tetras which are very small maybe like under a inch one of those been in there sense i got the tank, And the other one just got put in 3days ago which i thought everything was good till i got the test kit.. There 2 other gold tetas in there which one is about a inch which been in there sense i got the tank and i added the other one with the other neon tetra..

I know i shouldve waited too put more fish in but i didn't have the kit at the time...

I also want too mention i lost about 4 other fish the pass month in the tank but one was because it didn't take the water temp well when i first put him in and also i got most of the fish at walmart except those 2 fish i got at the fish store 3days ago.

But the walmart fish was 2 fish that's in the tank now which is the neon tetra and the glow tetra which still hanging on, And the other 4 that died was 1 neon that died as soon as i put him in the water and 2 glow tetras which died about 3 weeks after i got the tank, and lately about a week ago a sucker fish which was fine than i found him on his side breather hard and not moving and died about a hour later He was really active.


So hopefully i could get this problem fix but i herd if it was 8.0 all the fish would be dead by now so i don't know..


I also have another 10gal cycling with 3 zebra dianos sense 4 days ago and they doing really well and everything is testing good, And i was thinking of putting the 3gal fish in that right now but i know they probably wont take the cycle well and die overnight.. I have a empty 5gal also but not sure what too do because i herd tetra neon's ain't a good cycling fish.


Should i just keep doing 25 too 50% water changes everyday and add prime?


Thanks.


Also this is the tank which i thought was nice at first but i hate it now which why i went and got a 10gal for my other fish and hopefully after the cycle i can put the 3gal fish in that one. 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/3-Gallon-Aquarium-Kit/13448744


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## leogtr (Jan 19, 2011)

gordesky1 said:


> Ok for the pass days i been having problems with ammonia in my month and a half old 3gal tank, 3 Days ago i bought a api freshwater test kit and when i tested for ammonia it readed 8.0 ppm So i called my local fishstore and they gave me prime which said it will take care of it but for the pass 2 days i been giving a dose which is 6 drops with a 25% and a 50% water change and it still reads on the dark side which is 8.0 ppm..
> 
> 
> I would like too get this too normal because i don't want it too kill my fish which i have 4 in there now which is 2 neons tetras which are very small maybe like under a inch one of those been in there sense i got the tank, And the other one just got put in 3days ago which i thought everything was good till i got the test kit.. There 2 other gold tetas in there which one is about a inch which been in there sense i got the tank and i added the other one with the other neon tetra..
> ...


hey there welcome to the forums!!!


yes yes keep doing 50% water changes daily and add prime.Have you ever thought about gettting a bigger tank? their more stable you know...


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

leogtr said:


> hey there welcome to the forums!!!
> 
> 
> yes yes keep doing 50% water daily changes and add prime. What do you use to measure your water parameters?


thanks! 


You mean tests? I use a kit i got 3days ago which is called api freshwater master test kit which tests ph high range ph and ammonia nh3/nh4 and nitrite no2 and no3.

I was using 5 tests in one strip quick dip but herd those wasn't good


The water i also use is tap water but i put them in jugs and leave them sit and i tested thoes for a ammonia and even my tab water and they tested fine which is 0ppm yellow color.


Heres the kit that i got Api Freshwater Master Kit | Aquarium Supplies | PetSolutions


Also about feeding them when should i feed them awhile i work on getting this ammonia taken care of? I herd its not good too feed them when its this high but i also don't want too starve them either. I gave them a pinch of flakes in the morning which all the fish took a good bit of bites so at least they are eating. But one fish is shakeing his head sometimes which is one of the new glow fish i put in couple days ago but all others are not doing it.


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## leogtr (Jan 19, 2011)

gordesky1 said:


> thanks!
> 
> 
> You mean tests? I use a kit i got 3days ago which is called api freshwater master test kit which tests ph high range ph and ammonia nh3/nh4 and nitrite no2 and no3.
> ...


all I know is that your readings are too high they will kill your fish so do a 50% water changes everyday atleast those levels of ammonia/ nitrites/ nitrates are high to the point that your fish are fighting to survive. that test kit is the one we all use here so its the best one out there.


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## Andarial (Feb 12, 2011)

Prime does not remove the ammonia it just detoxifies it into ammonium, so it will still read on your kit. But I don't understand why it would still read so high if you're doing water changes unless your tap water has that much ammonia in it. You should test it but keep the glass of water out over night before you do.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

leogtr said:


> all I know is that your readings are too high they will kill your fish so do a 50% water changes everyday at least those levels of ammonia/ nitrites/ nitrates are high to the point that your fish are fighting to survive. that test kit is the one we all use here so its the best one out there.


Ya in the morning i did a 50% change than added prime and i just tested it again and it still reading the same..

Ya the 2 fish i had for a month in it are big fighters it seems, Not sure about the 2 new ones tho :\

I hear prime makes the ammonia non toxic for the fish will that keep the fish going till the ammonia gets under controlled?

Every morning im going to do a 50% and add prime till the ammonia goes down but for the pass 2 days it seems like its not doping at all..

Also what should i do about feeding? Should i still give them a small pinch of flake food 1once a day? Before i was giving them like 2 small pinchs a day but than saw the readings was high saw i cut it down too once a day.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Andarial said:


> Prime does not remove the ammonia it just detoxifies it into ammonium, so it will still read on your kit. But I don't understand why it would still read so high if you're doing water changes unless your tap water has that much ammonia in it. You should test it but keep the glass of water out over night before you do.



Ya i don't understand it either

I tested the jugs of water that i put my tap water in and they read 0 ppm, But will try the glass of water and see what it reads.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Prime indeed turns Ammonia into Ammonium which is relatively harmless.

Those readings are quite high... I agree that you should test your tap water.

I would go with 1 small pinch a day, and pick one day a week to not feed them.
Maybe someone in your house has been sneaking and feeding the fish?


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## leogtr (Jan 19, 2011)

thats too weird why would your ammonia be that high after such a water change? do 50% change in the morning and at night its a small tank so it wont be difficult at all just keep doing that until you figure it out...

good luck!


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## Andarial (Feb 12, 2011)

Once a day should do, but just be slow with the feeding and only a little at a time, sometimes I don't even notice how much I put in. The ammonium shouldn't harm your fish.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

redchigh said:


> Prime indeed turns Ammonia into Ammonium which is relatively harmless.
> 
> Those readings are quite high... I agree that you should test your tap water.
> 
> ...



Nope i hide the fish food after i feed them I admit at first i mightve been giving them too much food i did 2 pinch s each day, But these 2 weeks i ony did one pinch and that's it.

Right now i have some tap water in a glass sitting so will test that after it sits overnight, But wouldn't the jugs that i filled up from my sink be the same as testing it in a glass? Because the jugs tested for 0ppm.





leogtr said:


> thats too weird why would your ammonia be that high after such a water change? do 50% change in the morning and at night its a small tank so it wont be difficult at all just keep doing that until you figure it out...
> 
> good luck!



Ya i just don't get it one bit usely a 50% water change shouldve took care of it but it didn't.. Will do a 50% in the morning and at night.





Andarial said:


> Once a day should do, but just be slow with the feeding and only a little at a time, sometimes I don't even notice how much I put in. The ammonium shouldn't harm your fish.


With every water change even if its 2 times a day it wont hurt too add prime each time it wouldn't be too much?


Thanks


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

some good news the ammonia seems to be finally dropping after i did another 50% water change about 30min ago.

Th test resaults is between 2.0- 4.0 so at least its not 8.0.


So in the morning going to do another 50% and keep doing it 2 times a day 1 morning and 1 at night and hopefully i can get it down to 0ppm.


also seems like they a bit more active now


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## Andarial (Feb 12, 2011)

YAY for low ammonia


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Ok the ammonia is still high but it is still dropping slowly.. so its start and the fish is still hanging on, But when i came home lastnight from work i went too look and see how they doing and i notice these small white dots on one of my neons... So i found out it was white dots ick, hes still doing fine so today i went too my local fish store and they said yep that's ick and they said its usely from new fish, So they gave me treatment which is para guard and he said that will help and give a dose every day till it clears up, I also asked why my reading ammonia and ph and nitrite is all over the place mainly ammonia and he said water changes will help and prime wont help but will help it so it wont be non toxic too the fish, So he said use nite-out 2 which will put bacteria in the tank and it should put everything too normal in about a week and give them it every other day.


Im going too still do the water changes every day but how should i dose all this stuff? Should i put all the stuff in every time i do a water change? Like prime than para guard for the white dots ick and than nite-out all at the same time? ON the bottle it says nite-out every other day but it also says put it in when you do a water change so i want too make sure what too do.

I really don't like putting all this in but it seems like this tank is going crazy and needs help really soon...


Also it seems like the fish is more active today they are swimming around the tank and not always siting on the bottom of the tank like they was doing.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Does anyone know how i should dose the tank with thoes products? Like when i do a water change should i add all products in? I always do prime after i do a water change and i probably will have too use the white spot med too, but what about the nite out stuff? It says dose them every other day but it also says use it after each water change too..

I just dont want too make stuff worse than it is and harm them even more, but how the tank sits now i dont think it can get any worse


Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

I agree with the recommendations to keep doing the water changes every day. As for feeding, don't feed more than your fish eat in 3 minutes so there is no leftover food in the tank. That way the only thing adding to ammonia is the waste. Cutting down on the amount and or frequency of feeding will decrease the amount of waste, but I don't think it's really such a good idea. Think about it this way - your fish's stomachs are about the size of their eyes. It's hard to see how a stomach-full of food is enough to keep them going for 24 hours. Just don't overfeed at any feeding, or remove any food remnants that are still in the tank after 3 minutes or so. 

Some other factors you don't mention: is your tank filtered? If so, what do you do with your filter media while you are changing your water? Don't let it dry out or rinse it in chlorinated water - either one will kill your beneficial bacteria, and that is what you need to be building up to get your cycle regulated. You don't need to rinse it every day, just keep it wet. Once you are down to a more regular cycle of water changes, rinse the media in the tank water you have removed to remove the wastes that have accumulated in/on your sponge/floss/cartridge, whatever. If your tank is not filtered, you probably need to be doing 100% water changes at least once or twice a week with a tank that size and stocked as yours is. 

Also, what is the temp of your water? Ammonia is more toxic at higher temps, but that doesn't mean you should not heat the water. Your fish are all tropical fish that require water in the mid to upper 70's. Neon tetras do best at 78-80. Not sure abut your other tetras, and since MANY different fish are called tetras, I wouldn't assume that they require the same things. 

What is your pH? There is also a relationship between pH level and toxicity of ammonia. I don't remember the details at the moment, though. 

Also, neon tetras and otocinclus (one kind of suckermouth catfish - not sure if it's what you had in the tank) do not do well in tanks without established cycles, and often die in the first few days or weeks if not housed in a fully-cycled tank.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Sorry it took awhile too reply back,

Have bad new and good news.

The bad news i lost one of the neons few days after just was swing around weird and upside down so i put it in a small 1gal tank with a small filter and he died overnight Could've been the other fish fighting with him because he was pretty mess up..

And the ammonia is still on the high side.. one time it went down too 1.0 than it pretty much stays around 2.0 too 4.0 most of the time.. I just cant get it down for some reason..

Ph is on the high side too sense day one which is around 7.8 too sometimes low 8s..

Nitrite is 0 which is good.

K for the good news the 2 glow fish and 1 neon is doing really well and when i feed them which is very little bit each day in the morning they zoom right up too the top and take the food which before they wasn't active and stayed on the bottom and eat very little.

I been putting in prime pretty much each day with nite out but i quit using the nite out each day because it seem too put alot of brown stuff everywhere... So i do that once every other day.

And i mostly been doing water changes every day and it still didint drop the ammonia..

I just don't get why ammonia will not go down.

Maybe the problem is the filter? this is the one i use because its small and fits in the tank nice and doesint put strain on the fish Amazon.com: Tetra Whisper In-tank Filter 3i: Kitchen & Dining But what i dont like is it doesn't have a sponge just the filter..

So for the pass month and a half i just been rinsing the filter with {the tank water i take out when i do water changes} instead of replacing it with new filter.

Should i replace the filter with a new one now or should i keep using the old one?

Oh and another good news is my 2nd tank 10gal has finish cycling and ammonia is 0 but i did loose one zebra but it seems like one of the others was biteing at the fins because he kept chasing him and making him go behind stuff and his tail was pretty much gone.... I was going too put in the 2glow fish and the neon from the small tank but i don't want the zebras too bug them and bite them..

Also the gravel is pretty dirty too if i move it around you see stuff fly up but i cant really clean it good because its hard too do anything with the tank.

Oh and the temp for both tanks is around 75 too 78f and sometimes will go up too 80 too 82 when it gets hot in the house but its mostly around 75-78.

But ya im pretty much out of ideas what too do with the small tank i don't really want too move the fish out of it because it might shock them, And they do seem too like the tank alot, I just wish i could get everything too normal in it.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

I just seen this on amazon and wonder if i should pick this filter up? 



 cause it has the sponge and all that, But i will keep the one i have in it for a month of 2 with the new one because it has the good bacteria. And it has a flow adjuster.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The high ammonia is probably due to having too many fish in a 3 gallon tank. A 3 gallon is much too small for neon tetra, glowlight tetra, zebra danio, or whatever. Especially as you mention dirty gravel, also related.

Do not buy more fish until this is resolved.

Ich occurs when fish are stressed; the ammonia wilol certainly do that, as will overcrowding.

If you have a 10g, I wold put these fish in there. How many fish exactly do you have (species and number of each)?

Byron.


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## Bluebirdnanny (Oct 1, 2010)

"Also the gravel is pretty dirty too if i move it around you see stuff fly up but i cant really clean it good because its hard too do anything with the tank." 

That statement also tells you the tank might be better used as a dip tank if you use meds. NOT for housing fish on a regular basis. If it is too hard to work with then I wouldn't have fish in it.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Byron said:


> The high ammonia is probably due to having too many fish in a 3 gallon tank. A 3 gallon is much too small for neon tetra, glowlight tetra, zebra danio, or whatever. Especially as you mention dirty gravel, also related.
> 
> Do not buy more fish until this is resolved.
> 
> ...



Sorry if i wasn't clear but i ony have 3 fish in the 3gal neon and 2 glow fish right now.

The 2 zebras are in the 10gal alone right now.

See i would just put the 2 glows and neon in the 10gal but the problem is im afraid that the zebras will pick on the 3 because the 2 zebras are really active and chase each other alot which i think what killed the other zebra which was in the 10gal, This is why i still have the 3 in the small tank.

So far with just the 3 in the 3gal the 3 has been doing really well, But it seems like the small filter isint doing too well because ony time it will suck stuff up is when its 1 inch from the dirt too pull it in, So i ordered that pump i linked and should have it tomorrow because i order it with 1 day shipping.

But ya im not adding anymore than 3 fish in this 3gal because it seems like everytime i did a fish died a week later.. But so far with 3 they going over a month and a half now, And 1 of the glow fish is about 3-4months old now and he went threw the cycling and everything when i first got him, The neon might be the first one too but cant really tell because they look almost the same.

They also not showing any sign of stress or anything.

Oh and i did another water change lastnight and the water went really clear again and the ammonia drop a bit i say its around .50.

Also for the gravel is it ok too move it around so the stuff would fly up into the filter? Will the stuff hurt the fish when they swim in it? I been moving the gravel some too get the filter too suck it up but i dont do it alot because im not sure if it will hurt the fish if they swim in it? When i did the water change i did it a good bit and than do a water change and got alot of stuff out and the filter suck alot of it up.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Stress does not show necessarily. But when fish are not "normal" it is very often due to stress from something, and many things can cause stress. Unfortunately, ich occurs from stress, and fish frequently die from stress or stress-related issues.

One thing is that all these fish you have are what we term shoaling fish. They live together in very large groups, and that is very important. On their own, or even 2 or 3, this causes stress because they "expect" to have many more around them. They feel insecure in small numbers. And this can make even peaceful fish more aggressive.

Please research a fish species before acquiring more, so you will be sure you can provide the best environment for them. Neon tetra, Zebra Danio and Glofish all need to be in groups of at least 6, maybe 5 in a pinch; but that means more tank space.

We have fish profiles here, second tab from the left in the blue bar across the top of the page, or if a name is shaded in posts you can click on it to see that profile. You will find info on numbers, tank sizes, and other issues in the profiles.

Byron.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Byron said:


> Stress does not show necessarily. But when fish are not "normal" it is very often due to stress from something, and many things can cause stress. Unfortunately, ich occurs from stress, and fish frequently die from stress or stress-related issues.
> 
> One thing is that all these fish you have are what we term shoaling fish. They live together in very large groups, and that is very important. On their own, or even 2 or 3, this causes stress because they "expect" to have many more around them. They feel insecure in small numbers. And this can make even peaceful fish more aggressive.
> 
> ...



When i had the itch problem it ony has affected 1 neon but went right away when i put some med in it, Haven't had a problem sense than, And the fish is acting normal no weirdness and no signs of anything, 

My main concern is getting this ammonia down in the small tank hopefully the filter will solved that when i get it.


Ya i herd about they need like 6 fish of there kind min But i also herd alot of people have less than that and they do fine, Which it seems like the 3 fish i have in the small gal is doing fine with each other they always stay together and follow each other and also don't fight.

For the zebra they also seem too do good but i am going too add couple more fish maybe more zebras why i ony got 3 zebra which there is ony 2 now because i herd its best too have ony 3 hard fish when cycling a tank the other one didn't make it from the cycling or the other one killed it which im pretty sure one of them killed it because he was always picking on that fish.

I would just put the 3 fish neon and 2 glows with the zebras in the 10gal but i don't want them too pick on those 3 and than they die. i would prefer all of them in the 10gal but ya don't want them too get picked on either.

I guess i see what happens when i get the filter and let that run.

Also i was thinking of getting 3 more gold zebras and put them with the normal zebras does that count as a shoaling group? And in the mean time if the 3gal don't clear up i might start cycling a 5gal tank i have and put the neon and 2 glows in there.

But ya is it ok if i move the gravel around and leave the filter and water change get rid if it? Will it hurt the fish too swim with the stuff till it gets out?


Thanks.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

But ya is it ok if i move the gravel around and leave the filter and water change get rid if it? Will it hurt the fish too swim with the stuff till it gets out?

That's OK, it will not hurt the fish.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Byron said:


> But ya is it ok if i move the gravel around and leave the filter and water change get rid if it? Will it hurt the fish too swim with the stuff till it gets out?
> 
> That's OK, it will not hurt the fish.


Ok that's good Will do that when i get the new filter and will report back with a update hopefully a good one that the ammonia is gone.

The gravel has too be the problem because i been doing water changes every day pretty much 30% too 50% and ammonia is still up there.

In the 10gal i have very little gravel pretty much like maybe around a inch and a half and with some fish marbles and clear rocks and everything is clean, At first the ammonia was really high on the 10gal because it was clycling and it seems like it never was going too go down but after a month and a half it finally went down too 0 but it has a pretty good pump. The one in the 3gal barely moves anything..

Kinda wish i ony put the same much gravel in the 3gal it would've been so much easilyer too clean. But sense i know it wont hurt the fish swimming in it and will have a good filter i will move the gravel more than i was doing.

Thanks

Also just saw your aquariums they very beautiful Wish i had room for big tanks I wish i would've went with like a 25gal in the first place... instead of this 3gal than after that i got the 10gal. maybe in the future


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

K got a update, Got the new filter in and i still have the old one in there too so i wont loose the good bacteria, And i just tested the ammonia and its down too .50 now which was 1.0 last night, so it seems like it is helping, I also moved the gravel around too and the new filter cleaned it up nicely and the water is really clear now.

Hopefully i will see 0 soon lol


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

Bluebirdnanny said:


> "Also the gravel is pretty dirty too if i move it around you see stuff fly up but i cant really clean it good because its hard too do anything with the tank."
> 
> That statement also tells you the tank might be better used as a dip tank if you use meds. NOT for housing fish on a regular basis. If it is too hard to work with then I wouldn't have fish in it.


 
I totally agree with this statement! If taking care of animals, including fish, is too hard, then don't have them. You made a committment to these fish when you bought them, to give them as good a life as you can. I also agree with the comment above that 3g is too small for the fish you have in it. 3g is a good size for 1 betta with no tankmates, or to use as a temporary QT tank for a sick or injured fish, or to QT new fish before adding them to a bigger tank. Even as a QT tank, it shouldn't hold more than 3 inches of fish at any one time - meaning no more than one 3" fish, or two that are 1.5" or 3 that are no more than 1" each, and only temporarily. Even little fish need room to swim in their permanent homes.

If you have gravel, or any other substrate, you MUST clean it regularly! Every time you change the water, which in a 3g will be every few days, regardless of the filter. Rinse the gravel well in the old tank water, or in fresh dechlorinated water, until there is very little visible gunk floating up when you run water into the filter. I say dechlorinated water because chlorine will kill your beneficial bacteria and disrupt your cycle. Either that, or skip the gravel all together. 

By the way, nitrite at zero, while ordinarily a good thing, is NOT a good thing when your ammonia is so high. It means your tank hasn't cycled. During the cycle, your ammonia peaks then goes down as your nitrite goes up. Then your nitrite peaks and goes down. Doing this without fish in the tank is quicker, and certainly more humane, since ammonia poisoning can kill your fish - apparently it has been doing so already. You need to do massive water changes every day until your ammonia comes down, and then continue to do this until your nitrite comes down. Then change the water as often as you need to do so to keep the ammonia and nitrite at zero, which with a tank that size will probably be at least a couple of times a week. 

If you aren't able, or aren't willing, to do the necessary maintenance to keep your fish healthy, then get rid of the fish. Take them back to the store, or give them to somebody who can and will take care of them.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Amethyst123 said:


> I totally agree with this statement! If taking care of animals, including fish, is too hard, then don't have them. You made a committment to these fish when you bought them, to give them as good a life as you can. I also agree with the comment above that 3g is too small for the fish you have in it. 3g is a good size for 1 betta with no tankmates, or to use as a temporary QT tank for a sick or injured fish, or to QT new fish before adding them to a bigger tank. Even as a QT tank, it shouldn't hold more than 3 inches of fish at any one time - meaning no more than one 3" fish, or two that are 1.5" or 3 that are no more than 1" each, and only temporarily. Even little fish need room to swim in their permanent homes.
> 
> If you have gravel, or any other substrate, you MUST clean it regularly! Every time you change the water, which in a 3g will be every few days, regardless of the filter. Rinse the gravel well in the old tank water, or in fresh dechlorinated water, until there is very little visible gunk floating up when you run water into the filter. I say dechlorinated water because chlorine will kill your beneficial bacteria and disrupt your cycle. Either that, or skip the gravel all together.
> 
> ...



Not sure why you think im not doing maintenance on the tank because every day i do, For the pass 2 months i been doing water changes 30 too 50% mostly every day, And ya i know it was wrong too put alot of fish in it but i was told different at the pet store and yes 3 months ago this is the first time i started too have fish, well we did have fish about 12years ago and they usely lived for 3 too 5years with no problems but it was also a bigger tank i would say 10gal or 15gal.

With the 3 fish in it now which i say each one is about a inch right now they doing really well and not showing any signs of sickness or stress ever sense i started too put prime and niteout in the tank, And for the fish dieing the ones that died pretty much was from walmart which i was told doesn't have healthy fish in the first place. and pretty much the ony one i have from them is the bigger glow fish which is a strong survivor and very active now.

And the big 10gal tank is heathy as it can be now which ammonia went down too 0 about 2weeks ago. and the 2 zebras are doing great, But will add maybe 3 more with the 2 because i herd they like other fish of there kind.

But for the small tank its getting under controlled ever sense i got the new filter and i been moving the gravel around alot and both filters sucking all the stuff up, and the ammonia is down too .50 and not going up anymore so in a few says it should get too 0.

Hmm so take the gravel out when the fish are in the tank??? And you could have a fish tank with no gravel also ? Ony thing i dont really want too get rid of the gravel all together because it probably have alot of good bacteria, and i dont think the tank did another cycle because the water has been 100% clear for pass 2months which before the water was getting clody pretty much every couple days which means its going in a cycle again which probably because i was changing the filter alot, which now i know don't change it if you don't have a sponge too hold the bacteria, But the new filter has it.

But ya i do care about the fish and every other animals i have which i have alot and care for them all, it just this was a wrong tank too get which i thought it was good for a starter but i really don't want too move them out now because i don't want them too get in shock, Or i would've move them in the 10gal with the zebras but than again i don't want the zebras too pick on them either.


The main problem too begin with was the filter which the old one was pretty much junk and didn't do much.


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

Sorry. I was responding to an old post, apparently, without checking the more recent posts. I'm glad you're getting the ammonia under control. I've had trouble maintaining the cycle on a 3g, so I just use if for QT now, but if you can get yours stable, and it's not overstocked, then great. 

And yes, you can have fish without gravel, but also yes, the gravel does hold a lot of beneficial bacteria. It just needs to be cleaned out on a regular basis. A gravel vacuum can do the job nicely for both the 3 gal and the 10 gal. If you don't have one, you can scoop some of the gravel out with each water change and rinse it out thoroughly, or you can stir it up and try to scoop up as much as possible of the gunk that floats up with a fish net. I actually do all of these on a regular basis - vacuum every time I do a water change, whether a small change (20-25%) or a bigger change (50%), then remove as much floating gunk as I can when I put the new water in, because pouring it in will stir up stuff that the vacuum didn't pick up, plus occasionally scooping up some of the gravel and rinsing it out well. And if I have to do a 100% water change for some reason, I rinse the gravel well then, but only with dechlorinated water so I don't kill my cycle.


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

Sorry I jumped down your throat. Apparently I was responding to an older post without reading the more recent posts. We've probably all fallen victim to bad advice from employees of fish/pet stores, and even more likely if getting fish from a place like wallmart, which doesn't specialize in pets at all, much less fish. 

Anyway, I'm glad you're getting the ammonia under control. Like I said before, make sure you keep checking your nitrite levels, becaus it usually spikes after the ammonia drops. Keep doing frequent water changes until both are at zero. Nitrates, which show up last, are less harmful, and plants absorb them. Some fish are OK with nitrates up to 40ppm, but others need the nitrate level less than 20ppm, or even in the range of 10ppm. Check for the safe limits for your fish. 

Yes, you can have fish in an aquarium without gravel. On the other hand, yes, the gravel does give a place for the beneficial bacteria to live, so gravel-less is not necessarily the best thing in a cycled tank. It does need to be cleaned regularly, though, even with a good filter. A gravel vacuum would be a good investment, if you don't have one yet. You can use it on both tanks, as long as it is cleaned between tanks to prevent spread of something nasty from one to the other. 

Finally, as you may know, glo fish are zebra danios which have been altered by jelly fish DNA to make them the colors they are and to make them glow. Therefore, the regular zebras are probably not going to bother them, if you move them to the 10g tank. They may even school together, though I'm not sure. They may not recognize them as the same species since they look so different. Anyway, danios and neon tetras are both schooling fish, and a 3g really isn't going to be big enough in the long run. Neon tetras do best in odd-numbered schools of 5 or greater. You might want to invest in another 10g when you can, and get some more neons so they can school and thrive. If you do get another bigger tank, you can keep the 3g on hand in case you need to quarantine somebody. Or you could house a betta, with no tankmates, in a 3g tank, but I wouldn't put anything else in a tank that small other than temporarily.

To minimize stress moving fish from one tank to another: try rearranging the decorations/plants/etc in the bigger tank before moving in the new fish. That way they are all adjusting to new arrangements, and the older fish won't be as interested in the newer fish. Also, very important to make sure the water parameters are the same in both tanks, including temp and pH, since sudden changes in either can stress your fish. Finally, I've heard that the tank lights should be out when fish are moved. I guess that helps calm them, too.

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy the aquarium hobby for many years to come.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Amethyst123 said:


> Sorry. I was responding to an old post, apparently, without checking the more recent posts. I'm glad you're getting the ammonia under control. I've had trouble maintaining the cycle on a 3g, so I just use if for QT now, but if you can get yours stable, and it's not overstocked, then great.
> 
> And yes, you can have fish without gravel, but also yes, the gravel does hold a lot of beneficial bacteria. It just needs to be cleaned out on a regular basis. A gravel vacuum can do the job nicely for both the 3 gal and the 10 gal. If you don't have one, you can scoop some of the gravel out with each water change and rinse it out thoroughly, or you can stir it up and try to scoop up as much as possible of the gunk that floats up with a fish net. I actually do all of these on a regular basis - vacuum every time I do a water change, whether a small change (20-25%) or a bigger change (50%), then remove as much floating gunk as I can when I put the new water in, because pouring it in will stir up stuff that the vacuum didn't pick up, plus occasionally scooping up some of the gravel and rinsing it out well. And if I have to do a 100% water change for some reason, I rinse the gravel well then, but only with dechlorinated water so I don't kill my cycle.



No problem

Hmm i didn't know i can have fish with out no gravel or i wouldve just use no gravel in the 3gal, Going too keep it in now or maybe take some out, But pretty much every time i do a water change which right now is usely 2days or 3days sense the ammonia is on the low side now i stir it up and get out the floating stuff, At first i was doing it very little because i thought it would hurt the fish with the stuff flying around, So i do it always now and sense the new filter usely cleans it in 5 too 10min.

But i will take some of the gravel out and clean it in the old tank water when i do a water change now.

Oh i also got a gravel vacuum but its kinda too big for the 3gal sense it has a middle tube in the middle of the tank.. and it seems too suck the water out too fast and for i know it the water is pass 50 % low.. So i mainly just use that for the 10gal and will just do it by hand for the 3gal.

Also i do have a spare 5gal but its new in the box is there anyway i can add some old gravel and use the same filters thats in the old tank and some old water? Or will that still start a cycle? It would be nice too get them in a bigger tank which is square instead of circle 3gal.. It would be much more easilyer too clean too.

thanks.


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

gordesky1 said:


> i dont think the tank did another cycle because the water has been 100% clear for pass 2months which before the water was getting clody pretty much every couple days which means its going in a cycle again which probably because i was changing the filter alot, which now i know don't change it if you don't have a sponge too hold the bacteria, But the new filter has it.


Cloudy water could be due to lots of things, but doesn't indicate whether the tank is cycling. When your ammonia and nitrite are both staying at zero, the tank is cycled. If the ammonia goes up again, followed by the nitrite, it is going through another cycle. That can happen, as you mentioned before, if you are replacing all of your filter media too often or all at the same time. You can also kill your beneficial bacteria and throw your tank into a new cycle if you let your filter media dry out while changing your water, or if you rinse your filter media in chlorinated water. To remove excess gunk without killing your good bacteria, squeeze your sponge out in the old tank water, and rinse your other media in the same, when you change your water. Replace the sponge when it gets so gross that squeezing it out each water change doesn't seem to clean it anymore. Replace your carbon filter as often as your filter instructions say to change it. Your biological media, if you have it, doesn't need to be changed at all, just rinsed in old tank water when you do a water change. Don't replace all the material at once.

As for whether the water is cloudy or clear - in your case it probably was because the gravel was dirty, and apparently you've taken care of this problem. Cloudy water could also be due to algae or other organic substances in the water that aren't always cleared out by a filter.


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

gordesky1 said:


> No problem
> Also i do have a spare 5gal but its new in the box is there anyway i can add some old gravel and use the same filters thats in the old tank and some old water? Or will that still start a cycle? It would be nice too get them in a bigger tank which is square instead of circle 3gal.. It would be much more easilyer too clean too.
> 
> thanks.


A 5g is still on the small side for your fish, but better than a 3g. I'd still recommend at least a 10 for a small school of either type of fish. If you use gravel and filter, with the same filter media, in the 5g, that will help speed up your cycle on the new tank, but it will still need to cycle, because it will have more water, so will need more bacteria to keep it clean. The water itself doesn't hold much of the good bacteria, so you might as well put in clean water. 

What I would do is this: Leave the fish in the 3g while the 5g cycles - set up the 5g, put one of the filters, along with the filter media from the 3g in the 5g, along with some or all of the gravel from the 3g in the 5g, add Prime, add about as much food as it would take to feed one fish to the 5g daily, as a source of ammonia, and let it cycle without the fish. it's much quicker this way, because you can let the ammonia and the nitrite both get higher than it is safe to allow in a tank with fish, so the bacteria multiply faster. Squeezing out the sponge from one of the other tanks into the water in the 5g will also add both good bacteria and ammonia-generating gunk, which will also speed the process. Once the ammonia and nitrite have both spiked and returned to zero, do a partial water change - say 30%, more if needed for the water to look clean (depends on how much gunk you added from the other tanks), and check the parameters again the next day. If both ammonia and nitrite are still zero, add your fish.


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Amethyst123 said:


> A 5g is still on the small side for your fish, but better than a 3g. I'd still recommend at least a 10 for a small school of either type of fish. If you use gravel and filter, with the same filter media, in the 5g, that will help speed up your cycle on the new tank, but it will still need to cycle, because it will have more water, so will need more bacteria to keep it clean. The water itself doesn't hold much of the good bacteria, so you might as well put in clean water.
> 
> What I would do is this: Leave the fish in the 3g while the 5g cycles - set up the 5g, put one of the filters, along with the filter media from the 3g in the 5g, along with some or all of the gravel from the 3g in the 5g, add Prime, add about as much food as it would take to feed one fish to the 5g daily, as a source of ammonia, and let it cycle without the fish. it's much quicker this way, because you can let the ammonia and the nitrite both get higher than it is safe to allow in a tank with fish, so the bacteria multiply faster. Squeezing out the sponge from one of the other tanks into the water in the 5g will also add both good bacteria and ammonia-generating gunk, which will also speed the process. Once the ammonia and nitrite have both spiked and returned to zero, do a partial water change - say 30%, more if needed for the water to look clean (depends on how much gunk you added from the other tanks), and check the parameters again the next day. If both ammonia and nitrite are still zero, add your fish.



Thanks for the advice Going too setup the 5gal and do what you said over the weekend, i would think the 3 fish would like the 5gal more than the 3gal right now they do seem happy right now tho, Than in the future i like too get a bigger tank for all the fish like a 20gal or 30gal. Still wish i would've got a bigger tank in the first place tho..


also im going too post some pics of the glow fish if i can because the more i look at pics of them the ones i have doesn't look anything like the pics.. They must be glow fish sense thats what i ask for in the pet store.

Hmm is glow fish and textra glowlight the same?

Because the ones i have look like the glowlight textra which is in this pic http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fishimages/0908_glowlight_tetra.jpg Mine are a but deeper yellow tho. pretty much like these http://www.ryanstropicalfish.com/glowlighttetra.jpg


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

gordesky1 said:


> also im going too post some pics of the glow fish if i can because the more i look at pics of them the ones i have doesn't look anything like the pics.. They must be glow fish sense thats what i ask for in the pet store.
> 
> Hmm is glow fish and textra glowlight the same?
> 
> Because the ones i have look like the glowlight textra which is in this pic http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fishimages/0908_glowlight_tetra.jpg Mine are a but deeper yellow tho. pretty much like these http://www.ryanstropicalfish.com/glowlighttetra.jpg


No, glow light tetras are not the same kind of fish as glofish. If the ones you have look like those in the links you posted, then forget what I said about zebra danios with jelly fish DNA. To see pix of glofish, check out GloFish® Fluorescent Fish Home Page. I don't know anything about glow light tetras. I do know that LOTS of fish are called tetras, and they aren't even all from the same family. I'm sure you can find out what you need to know about glow lights from one of the sites you linked with. Good look with your fish.


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

I just checked the profile on glow light tetras - they get up to 6 inches in size, and need to be kept in groups of 10 or more - obviously you need a LOT bigger tank for them. Maybe you could find someone with a really big tank to take them off your hands, and you can get 4 more neon tetras to school with the one you have. 5 neons should be OK in a 5g for awhile, although it won't be big enough long-term.

Some friendly advice - researching needs of fish before buying them usually works better than buying them and then learning that you don't have what you need to provide for them. :-?


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## gordesky1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Amethyst123 said:


> I just checked the profile on glow light tetras - they get up to 6 inches in size, and need to be kept in groups of 10 or more - obviously you need a LOT bigger tank for them. Maybe you could find someone with a really big tank to take them off your hands, and you can get 4 more neon tetras to school with the one you have. 5 neons should be OK in a 5g for awhile, although it won't be big enough long-term.
> 
> Some friendly advice - researching needs of fish before buying them usually works better than buying them and then learning that you don't have what you need to provide for them. :-?



Hmm didn't know they get that big:shock: Ya i don't have anyone that will take them, But i do like too keep them so maybe in a few month i will invest in a bigger tank maybe 15gal or 25gal.

Walmart which i got 1 of the tetra glow lights which is about 2 too 3months old now said on the sign it will get too 1.3 too 2in max size.. And the pet store which seems too be a good one said around 1.2 too 2inins, which right now its about 1in too 1.1 If i knew they would get too 6ins i wouldn't got them.

How long will it take for them too get too that max size? The bigger glow light fish i have now is around 3months too 4months and the one from the pet store is little over a month going on 2months. They seem too do very well together tho even the neon swims and stays with them.

Thanks.

Oh forgot too tell the good news! the ammonia drop right down too 0 in the small tank yesterday after a water change, I cleaned the gravel and swish it around and got it out with a cup and than let the filters take care of the rest, But today it did went up little again so i did another water change and did the same with the gravel, going too test it in couple hours too see if its down yet, Going too take the most of the gravel out next time and clean it with the dirty tank water. But seems like the gravel is the problem for the ammonia problem. So at least i know its the problem now.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

One of you misread the profile. The max size for Glowlight Tetra is 1.6 inches, not 6 inches. But a 5g is much too small for any "normal" tetra species which must be in groups of 6 or more (5 would suffice in a pinch, but even this is too many in a 5g). Please wait until you have the 20g or larger before getting any of the tetra.


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

Byron said:


> One of you misread the profile. The max size for Glowlight Tetra is 1.6 inches, not 6 inches. But a 5g is much too small for any "normal" tetra species which must be in groups of 6 or more (5 would suffice in a pinch, but even this is too many in a 5g). Please wait until you have the 20g or larger before getting any of the tetra.


I was basing my comment on the profile at this site: Glow light tetra . I even double checked that I'd seen/read it right, because I'd never heard of a tetra that big. Anyway, maybe whoever put it up on that site may have made a typo. Don't know. 

As for the neon tetras, I've read in many places that they prefer odd to even numbers, and that the minimum number is 5, but that they prefer larger groups. I currently have 8 in a 14g tank (I had 9, but one died), and they often hang out in two groups of 3 and 5, or in a group of 7 with one alone. I've been thinking of adding another 3 or 5, to bring it up to to either 11 or 13. I'm thinking 13 may be too many for a 14g, but the tank looks pretty empty with only 8, and I don't know that 3 more will be that much different. Any thoughts?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Amethyst123 said:


> I was basing my comment on the profile at this site: Glow light tetra . I even double checked that I'd seen/read it right, because I'd never heard of a tetra that big. Anyway, maybe whoever put it up on that site may have made a typo. Don't know.
> 
> As for the neon tetras, I've read in many places that they prefer odd to even numbers, and that the minimum number is 5, but that they prefer larger groups. I currently have 8 in a 14g tank (I had 9, but one died), and they often hang out in two groups of 3 and 5, or in a group of 7 with one alone. I've been thinking of adding another 3 or 5, to bring it up to to either 11 or 13. I'm thinking 13 may be too many for a 14g, but the tank looks pretty empty with only 8, and I don't know that 3 more will be that much different. Any thoughts?


I had a look at that link, both numbers are obviously incorrect (15cm equates to 6 inches) and that is absolutely not possible; errors do occur by all of us.

This even/odd number idea is a fallacy. Not sure how it started, it may have something to do with the mnale/female ratio in some species which is a scientific issue. But the fish need to be in a group, and the more the better. I myself like odd numbers, but for no other reason than I like to see 3 or 5 roses in a vase rather than 2 or 4; it is purely aesthetic.

In a 14g I would not go beyond 8 or 9 neon, and that assumes nothing else except perhaps a bottom fish (3-5 corys for instance). And good growth of plants; with thick planting and some branches, the fish would be out and about and more visible in the space. What is the tank length? This is more important than the volume.

Byron.


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