# Best Way to Raise GH



## Sakura8

Because my water goes through a water softener, it has a GH of 0 but a pH of 7.8. I need to raise the GH to about 5 at least for some hard water fish. Would it be possible to use Seachem Equilibrium to raise the GH? I know the product is for planted aquariums but I was wondering if it would work since I don't need to raise the pH or the KH (that is about 8-11). If that doesn't work, what is a better method: using aragonite as a substrate or just putting a bag of crushed coral in there? I'd prefer not to have to switch substrates but I can if that's the best way to raise the GH. Any advice would be most helpful. Thank you!

Oh yes. The kit I use to test GH/KH is the API liquid test.


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## AK Fresh Water

Sakura8 said:


> Because my water goes through a water softener, it has a GH of 0 but a pH of 7.8. I need to raise the GH to about 5 at least for some hard water fish. Would it be possible to use Seachem Equilibrium to raise the GH? I know the product is for planted aquariums but I was wondering if it would work since I don't need to raise the pH or the KH (that is about 8-11). If that doesn't work, what is a better method: using aragonite as a substrate or just putting a bag of crushed coral in there? I'd prefer not to have to switch substrates but I can if that's the best way to raise the GH. Any advice would be most helpful. Thank you!
> 
> Oh yes. The kit I use to test GH/KH is the API liquid test.


What kind of fish are you keeping, Cichlids? 5 degrees of hardness is still considered soft water.

Yes, Seachem Equilibrium will raise your GH. However, you will have to add it every time you do a water change.


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## thekoimaiden

If you don't want to raise the KH or pH, then seachem equilibrium is the way to go. I use crushed coral in my goldfish tank and it raises the pH like mad. I think you can order it in 2L jugs which might save you some money.


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## Sakura8

AK Freshwater, yes, they're Victoria Lake cichlids. I figure I need to raise it to at least 10; 5 is considered the minimum that they'll tolerate. I've been using it in my planted tank (which will soon be converted to the cichlid tank, since the plants are infested with snails). 1 tablespoon per 20gal raises the GH by 3, so . . . 3 tablespoons to get it to 9? 

Izzy, yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. The max pH they'll tolerate is 8.0. What about a combo of coral and Equilibrium? Would coral raise the GH high enough on its own?


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## thekoimaiden

I've never tried that, but it might be worth a shot. One thing I like about the equilibrium over the coral is that it's a much more scientific process. You know exactly how many mL to add to raise the GH by a certain ppm. With the coral it's guesswork and testing. I had to test my goldfish tank almost daily for 3 weeks to figure out just how much coral to add. 

While I was gone, the person who was changing the water in my goldfish tank tossed out the crushed coral which I had painstakingly measured and tested. :evil: I'm back at square one with it and will be testing the tank for weeks now before I get it sorted out again. (Last time I trust someone else with my water changes). 

But the point of that is, the coral is unpredictable. It seemed like 1/2 cup raised my GH different amounts each time I added it. The first time it raised it by about 2 but the second time it raised it by about 3. If you're trying to work with precise numbers, I don't think coral is the way to go.


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## Sakura8

That's a major bummer about your goldfish tank. At least testing for GH/KH isn't quite the headache that testing for nitrates is. (*shake shake shake*) 

Okay then. If it sounds like it's okay, I think I'll go ahead and use the Equilibrium so I don't have to buy a new aragonite substrate or anything like that. 

Thanks!


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## Quantum

keep in mind that if your water softener is the cation exchange type that uses salt, tests for hardness will show the water to be very soft though this does not mean that it is 'purer' or has less mineral content in general, it will actually be higher in total dissolved solids than before, it will just be of different types

general hardness is determined by measuring the amount of calcium and magnesium present, cation exchange softeners that use salt replace every Ca++/Mg++ ion with two Na+

in most natural freshwater Ca>Mg>Na

it may be easier for you just to get water before it goes through the softener


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## 1077

Quantum said:


> keep in mind that if your water softener is the cation exchange type that uses salt, tests for hardness will show the water to be very soft though this does not mean that it is 'purer' or has less mineral content in general, it will actually be higher in total dissolved solids than before, it will just be of different types
> 
> general hardness is determined by measuring the amount of calcium and magnesium present, cation exchange softeners that use salt replace every Ca++/Mg++ ion with two Na+
> 
> in most natural freshwater Ca>Mg>Na
> 
> it may be easier for you just to get water before it goes through the softener


+one .
Sometimes outside spigot that garden hose attaches to is not hooked up to softener(or neighbor's?)
Then you would just need to store the water and heat before using.


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## Byron

I fully agree with Quantum and 1077.

First off, with rift lake cichlids, you need _hard_ water, not soft water which is what 5 dGH is. This is no where near adequate long-term for these cichlids, regardless of what someone may have suggested to the contrary. And Equilibrium is not the way to go, it is expensive and not really suited anyway. Seachem make another product just for fish, forgotten the name at the moment, which would be better but still expensive and not the best method so don't bother.

A substrate of crushed coral and aragonite sand is the only good method for this. The GH will rise, and the pH with it, and frankly it cannot get too high for your fish so I wouldn't even bother on that score. I did this years ago for some rift lake fish, and livebearers, using dolomite back then. But the sands now available made from crushed coral and aragonite [coral is calcium, aragonite adds the magnesium bit] are perfect for this task, and very natural in a rift lake aquascape.

Byron.


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## Sakura8

This is all such awesome information for when I do get Rift Lake cichlids but I just found out I lost the bid on them sooooo . . . maybe considering the nature of my water, I should look for some apistos?


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## equatics

Sorry I can't answer you about Apistogrammas, but I would want to know what the tap water (no softener) parameters are. Likely the water softener is there for a reason, that your area has hard water. If necessary, you could ask the person in the closest fish store...

The next step, and maybe I'm rushing things, is can you put a hose onto a non-softened outlet and run it to your tank. The hint about outside spigots sometimes not being connected to the water softener was a good one. Another suggestion would be to find the water softener and see if the person who made it had the forethought to provide an outlet to tap water.

Byron said (translating loosely) to keep water softened water out of the tank, and I think that's good advice.


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## Sakura8

Hi all.

Okay, so the hose water parameters are 8 GH and 11 KH, same pH. Izzy told me once that was considered moderately hard. 

I can't really keep water softened water out of my tanks, though.  I have no way to heat the water and for some of my tanks, just keeping some in a 5gal bucket with a heater wouldn't work. That's the bum part.  It's going to be a problem in the winter for two of my tanks that currently do get hosewater. :/ 

However, I was reading through my fish profile book, "Tropical Fishes: 500+ Essential-to-Know Species" by Mary Sweeney, Mary Bailey, and Aaron Norman, and I read this: 

"Generally speaking, pH is the most important parameter. Hardness measures only one element of the dissolved salts in the water, and it is only a rough guideline. Most hardwater fishes wil not react badly to soft water as long as the pH is appropriate. By contrast, however, many softwater fishes do not do well in hard water." 

Mary Sweeney and Mary Bailey are well-known in the aquarium literature world and the book is published by TFK so the advice is sound. I think if I use Kent's African Cichlid trace element supplement in the water softened water to provide some of the missing minerals, I might be able to keep hardwater cichlids after all.


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## equatics

Sakura8 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Okay, so the hose water parameters are 8 GH and 11 KH, same pH. Izzy told me once that was considered moderately hard.
> 
> I can't really keep water softened water out of my tanks, though.  I have no way to heat the water and for some of my tanks, just keeping some in a 5gal bucket with a heater wouldn't work. That's the bum part.  It's going to be a problem in the winter for two of my tanks that currently do get hosewater. :/
> 
> However, I was reading through my fish profile book, "Tropical Fishes: 500+ Essential-to-Know Species" by Mary Sweeney, Mary Bailey, and Aaron Norman, and I read this:
> 
> "Generally speaking, pH is the most important parameter. Hardness measures only one element of the dissolved salts in the water, and it is only a rough guideline. Most hardwater fishes wil not react badly to soft water as long as the pH is appropriate. By contrast, however, many softwater fishes do not do well in hard water."
> 
> Mary Sweeney and Mary Bailey are well-known in the aquarium literature world and the book is published by TFK so the advice is sound. I think if I use Kent's African Cichlid trace element supplement in the water softened water to provide some of the missing minerals, I might be able to keep hardwater cichlids after all.


Can't really write right now, but your post certainly deserves to be answered. Can you get the tap pH - from the local fish store if you don't have a test kit for that? You might need to know that and I do at this point.

Thanks.


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## Sakura8

Tap pH is 7.8 as well, it's the same from the water softener and the hose.

Thanks.


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## Byron

This thread is bouncing from soft to hard water fish, so it's tricky to keep on track when responding.:lol: But I'll try.

On the softener, this depends how it softens. Some remove the hard minerals (primarily calcium and magnesium) by adding other substances such as salts which can be more detrimental than the hard minerals on fish. Looking into how your particular softener works would be helpful.

The TDS (total dissolved solids) is important, and these occur from many sources. Hard minerals (which is our normal "hardness" test), salts of any type, water conditioners, fish foods, and almost any substance added to the aquarium (for water adjustment, treatments, etc). These TDS add up and this affects fish to varying degrees. This is in line with the second sentence in the citation from your book:

_Generally speaking, pH is the most important parameter. Hardness measures only one element of the dissolved salts in the water, and it is only a rough guideline. *Most hardwater fishes wil not react badly to soft water as long as the pH is appropriate*. By contrast, however, many softwater fishes do not do well in hard water_.

But the text in bold [my edit] is incorrect scientifically. Fish from hard waters require minerals in the water in order for their internal physiology to function normally. If these are lacking, they may "survive" but they will be under stress which causes other issues, and they will be physiologically weakened and die prematurely. There is further information on this here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/stress-freshwater-aquarium-fish-98852/

I am also not convinced that pH is more important than GH. But the two are so inter-connected, it is difficult to say. This will be covered more in the above article.

Your 8 dGH is at the high end of soft and low end of medium hard, so this is suitable to a great many fish [leaving aside the softener issues]. The high KH means the pH is going to remain stable at whatever level it is out of the tap, unless you target the GH and KH. My article on this issue might help:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/water-hardness-ph-freshwater-aquarium-73276/

If rift lake cichlids are the choice, then i wold raise the GH and pH as i previously described with the calcareous substrate. Or use the water pre-softener, which again may be better anyway. If Apistogramma cichlids are the choice, then you may or may not need to move more in the opposite direction, it depends upon the species.

Byron.


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## Sakura8

> But the text in bold [my edit] is incorrect scientifically. Fish from hard waters require minerals in the water in order for their internal physiology to function normally. If these are lacking, they may "survive" but they will be under stress which causes other issues, and they will be physiologically weakened and die prematurely.


That's why I was wondering if adding the Kent Cichlid Essential would add those necessary minerals.

Kent Marine Cichlid Essential | Products

The Kent Marine website also says that for Victorian cichlids, a GH of 5 is acceptable. So if I can raise the GH to 5 and add the trace elements, I should be okay hardness and pH wise, right?

EDIT: Almost forgot. The water softener is a salt-based one. Sadly, there's not much I can do about it since it's not my house.


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## Olympia

Well, I'm pretty sure Sakura was looking at lake Victoria cichlids, and this is the softest of the big African lakes, isn't it? I think 10dH is fine.


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## equatics

I frequently come up with these hare-brained ideas so take this one with a grain of salt <grin> It would probably be somewhat pricey, but I wonder if it's possible to find a reverse osmosis unit that's non-invasive to the existing plumbing. As I recall, they use salt in some part of the operations, but it doesn't get into the output water. Then you could put in cichlid salts (probably expensive over time) or a different mixture for a lower GH for Apistogrammas or other tropical fish.

The output would presumeably be pH7.0 neutral with GH=0 and KH=0


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## Sakura8

Nemo, that's definitely something I'm looking into when I move. I'd much rather have an R/O unit than a water softener. 

But now that I think about it, a few months back we had our water scientifically tested to see just how much sodium and salts were in it (my mom has heart troubles and we were concerned the water softener was adding to her problems) and it turned out there really wasn't that much sodium. I don't remember the exact number, I'll have to find the results.


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## equatics

That sounds good. Post those results! You can probably get them from the company if you can't find them at home.

Here's a link that looks somewhat promising for conversions with a lot of quick-release plugs and fittings, etc.

Reverse Osmosis Fittings, Tubing & Valves - Quick-Connect Plugs - US Water Systems


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## Sakura8

Thank you, Nemo.


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## Byron

Sakura8 said:


> That's why I was wondering if adding the Kent Cichlid Essential would add those necessary minerals.
> 
> Kent Marine Cichlid Essential | Products
> 
> The Kent Marine website also says that for Victorian cichlids, a GH of 5 is acceptable. So if I can raise the GH to 5 and add the trace elements, I should be okay hardness and pH wise, right?
> 
> EDIT: Almost forgot. The water softener is a salt-based one. Sadly, there's not much I can do about it since it's not my house.


The cichlid sources I have suggest a GH of 12 dGH or more and a pH around 8 for Lake Victoria species. I haven't researched this sufficiently to be able to suggest differently.

Using the preparations is fine, but there are simpler methods to raise GH and pH. I do have to wonder why one would want to spend money on a product that has to be added regularly, when the substrate can handle the issue permanently. I know that in my case, with near-zero GH out of the tap, having to add Equilibrium to get the GH up to 5 dGH for the plants is expensive, and I wold certainly do this another way if one were available. I did try the crushed coral/aragonite method, but sadly it resulted in a pH close to 8 and that is simply not possible for my wild caught fish from waters with a pH of 5.


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## Sakura8

Byron, what books do you have on cichlids? I know David Boruchowitz has one but I'm sure there are others and I'm always on the search for more fish books. 

I will certainly look into the crushed coral/aragonite. Thanks.


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## Byron

Sakura8 said:


> Byron, what books do you have on cichlids? I know David Boruchowitz has one but I'm sure there are others and I'm always on the search for more fish books.
> 
> I will certainly look into the crushed coral/aragonite. Thanks.


I have a couple but they are more than a decade old now, and I use the internet more for research on fish, as things are changing so fast now that a book is out of date by the time it is printed. There are some good cichlid sites. The ACA has one, and there are others; most include a forum so I won't link them.;-)

The substrate is the way to do this, it worked well for me, and it lasts forever. CarribSea make a couple of sands from crushed coral and aragonite, I have their gravel that i experiemented with in the filter to raise GH but as I said the ph went through the roof so that didn't work.


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## Sakura8

Byron, that is the problem with books, isn't it? They're always finding new species or variants so books get outdated fast. I'll definitely check out the ACA. Thanks! 

And I will look into the aragonite. Should I get the Cichlid specific substrate from Caribsea? The only other aragonites I've seen were packed in ocean water.


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## Byron

Sakura8 said:


> Byron, that is the problem with books, isn't it? They're always finding new species or variants so books get outdated fast. I'll definitely check out the ACA. Thanks!
> 
> And I will look into the aragonite. Should I get the Cichlid specific substrate from Caribsea? The only other aragonites I've seen were packed in ocean water.


If it is made for rift lake cichlids, that's fine; it will be calcareous. Make sure it is sand; these fish as you probably know do a lot of sifting through the substrate and sand is better than gravel for this.


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## Sakura8

Okay. Thanks again everyone.


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