# Good or Bad?



## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

Hello,

I would just like to know if my choices are "good" or "bad"?

First Tank
10 gallon
2 gold fish (both about 1.5 inches) (About 30 days in my tank)
Gold fish 1: Type: Oranda Red Cap, Nameuffy
Gold fish 2: Type: Dont Know, Name: no name
1 Pleco (2 inches) (about 15 days in my tank)
Name: no name

Second Tank (simple)
2 Gallon
1 Betta fish (Blue) (about 30 days)
Name: Gill

Third Tank (simple)
Half a Gallon
1 Betta fish (Red) (about 15 days)
Name: no name

I dont like how the betta's are kept in such small cups at the pet store, I figured I could give it some more room (not much) without taking up to much room in my house.

I heard the amount of fish you can keep in your tank is 2 inches per gallon, so I figured that mine is doing fine. But then again dont gold fish get pretty big?


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## Brandon (Dec 14, 2006)

Gold fish grow only as big as they can so in a pond i've seen HUGE ones.


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

goldfish can get pretty big, and are big waste producers so youll need a good filter when they get bigger. red cap orandas can grow up to a foot long (12"). its true thatyoure giving your bettas a better life than in the wee tubs in pet shops but 1/2 a gallon is still too tiny for any fish, (and imo so is 2g but others might differ on that one). it will survive in a tank that small, but wont be happy or able to swim anywhere


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

Brandon said:


> Gold fish grow only as big as they can so in a pond i've seen HUGE ones.


thats actually wrong, they will keep growing until there is no space to grow, meaning if they can swim back and forth in the aquarium they will still grow

As for the bettas, there best tanks for them are 10 gallons each, they will show there best color and there swimming in bigger tanks but they can survive (although probably not thrive) in smaller tanks

Goldfish need 30 gallons for 2 goldfish and 10 gallons per fish above that, meaning 40 gallons 3 goldfish, 50 gallons 4 goldfish, 60 gallons 5 etc


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## Rue (Jan 28, 2007)

*First Tank
10 gallon
2 gold fish (both about 1.5 inches) (About 30 days in my tank)
Gold fish 1: Type: Oranda Red Cap, Nameuffy
Gold fish 2: Type: Dont Know, Name: no name
1 Pleco (2 inches) (about 15 days in my tank)
Name: no name*

Fine for now...but goldfish grow BIG, even the fancies grow a good 6-8" and will need 10-20 gallons EACH...

The pleco is not a good choice for 2 reasons. The pleco needs warmer water than the goldfish and is also a HUGE fish...12" easily when mature.

*Second Tank (simple)
2 Gallon
1 Betta fish (Blue) (about 30 days)
Name: Gill*

That's fine...but a 5g planted tank would be MUCH better (or bigger!). Make sure you keep his water warm enough...contrary to popular belief...room temp. (71 F) is NOT warm enough...

*Third Tank (simple)
Half a Gallon
1 Betta fish (Red) (about 15 days)
Name: no name*

Not so good...see above...

*I dont like how the betta's are kept in such small cups at the pet store, I figured I could give it some more room (not much) without taking up to much room in my house.*

They're kept in the small cups in fish stores because it's convenient. That doesn't mean they should always be kept in small containers...all the fish in aquariums in petstores are kept overstocked...that doesn't mean that's how they should be kept...


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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

Rue said:


> They're kept in the small cups in fish stores because it's convenient. That doesn't mean they should always be kept in small containers...all the fish in aquariums in petstores are kept overstocked...that doesn't mean that's how they should be kept...


I know that they are kept over stocked, but its still good enough to put them in some thing a little bit bigger.

What i dont understand is why they sell 2 gallon tanks for bettas and half a gallon for bettas if it is not good for them?

As for the pleco, I am considering taking it back to the pet store during the next week or so.

Im guessing no one at the pet store was helpful because it seems there are problems.

oh, btw, I feed the fish twice a day, 8am and 8pm (12 hours in between) bettas get 2 pebles in 1 day, 1 per feeding. The gold fish get one little pinch of flake food.

Thank you for your help so far.


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## Rue (Jan 28, 2007)

...I agree that they should have better housing...but what kind of housing can you have, for individual fish, when a stores sells 50+ fish a week?

I'd like to see special divided tanks...all nicely filtered and heated...but that's just me...

...pet stores are also businesses...so if the public demands small bowl for their 'pretty' fish the pet stores will supply them if they make money...

...sad but true...

To get over this 'abuse' of bettas, the public is going to have to stop demanding fish bowls and start demanding appropriate tanks...


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

Puffy said:


> Rue said:
> 
> 
> > They're kept in the small cups in fish stores because it's convenient. That doesn't mean they should always be kept in small containers...all the fish in aquariums in petstores are kept overstocked...that doesn't mean that's how they should be kept...
> ...


ive seen a lot worse than 1/2 gallons, ive seen little bowls that are half the volume of the betta containers at petsmart, its called the perfect little bowl for bettas, goldfish and guppies. Its the size of your palm and contains... 6 oz of water


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## herefishy (Dec 14, 2006)

Goldfish .............? That's a pretty heavy bio-load.


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## GalaxyGirl (Feb 1, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> Puffy said:
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> > Rue said:
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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

GalaxyGirl said:


> musho3210 said:
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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> GalaxyGirl said:
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> > musho3210 said:
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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

The rule is:

1) ONE inch per gallon. (Two in long estabilished, heavily planted tanks.)

2) Applies to tropical fish. Goldfish are not tropical. Gas (Oxygen is the one we're concerned with, but gas in general) has lower soluability in cooler water, so one can keep a third as many fish in a tank at 60 degrees F as you can at 75.

3) Applies to minnow shaped fish in the 1-3" range. Fancy Goldfish are sphere/blob shaped fish in the 6-12" range.

4) Assumes that the fish produce an average amount of poop. Goldfish are above average in the manure department, and plecos are the kings of fish faeces. Taking all that into account, In cool water, I'd want 3 to 4 gallons per inch for goldfish.

5) Should be applied to the average maximum size of the fish in the tank - so calculate 8" for each of the Goldfish and 12" for the pleco. So for just the Goldfish, we're talking 48 to 64 gallons - Minimum.

6) The rule doesn't actually work all that well, since in a non-planted tank the only oxygen comes from the surface area of the tank, which can vary significantly for tanks of the same volume. While volume is important for diluting waste, as one approaches the maximum load on the tank, dissolved oxygen tends to be the limiting factor.


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## ClarkyJ (Feb 18, 2007)

*I think keeping gold fish in a t .ank under 15 gallons is not rite. And its not true that they grow to the size the tank can handle they just grow lol. I have a 50 gallons tank with 5 gold fish and they are about 11 cm long now and were about 4 cm long when I got em *


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

its 1 inche per 2 gallons for goldfish. A standard comet goldfish can reach up to 12 inches therefor needing 24 gallons of water to itself.


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## Sleepy (Feb 5, 2007)

ClarkyJ said:


> *I think keeping gold fish in a t .ank under 15 gallons is not rite. And its not true that they grow to the size the tank can handle they just grow lol. I have a 50 gallons tank with 5 gold fish and they are about 11 cm long now and were about 4 cm long when I got em *


Not to mention that a small environment shortens the life expectancy. 

My father bought 5 goldfish 16 years ago. One died after one year. The other fish are still alive and huge. When he bought those guys they were around 3 cm (1.18 inch). Today they are nearly 20 cm (7.8 inch). 

In my personal opinion a goldfish does not belong in a tank except during the cold wintertimes and even then, it depends on where youÃ‚Â´re living.


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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

Yea thanks, like is I said in another post (or maybe a different thread) the people that helped me pick everything out knew exactly what I had and didn't tell me anything about how big a gold fish can get. I asked them, and they said that 2 gold fish were ok in 10 gallon (one person even said 4 would be ok, but I knew that would be too much).

So, in a 10 gallon, my goldfish will get 2.5 inches each?

Anyway, what is "ok" in a 10 gallon tank? Could you please name some fish that would be ok and how many would go together in one tank?

Like this please...
1.Name - Amount
2.Name - Amount
3.Name - Amount

Thank you


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

Fish do not grow to the size of the tank. More accurately, if you keep a fish in too small a tank, the outside will grow to the largest it can, subject to the maximum size of the fish, and the insides will grow to their maximum size - causing all sorts of problems. So if you keep a fish in too small a tank it will be crippled.

So in 10 gallons:
Goldfish - 0
Common Pleco - 0

Small tetras (Neons, Cardinals, Glo Lights, Black Neons) - 10 - 12
Small Corydoras (C. Pygmaeus, Hasorus, hastatus, panda) - 5 - 10
Otocinculus - 5
Dwarf Puffer - 1 - 3 (no more than 1 male)
Small Rasboras (eg. Bororas Maculatus) - up to 12
Danio choprae - 5-10
Cherry red shrimp - 20+
Amano Shrimp - 10
Ghost Shrimp - 10
Bumblebee gobies - 6-10 (brackish - hard to feed)
Betta - 1 male OR up to 5 Female
Guppies - Up to 3
White Cloud Mountain Minnows - 6-12 (cool water tolerant - long finned ones are goreous.)

The above is the amount if that is all that is in your tank.

I have 2 ten gallons cycling right now. In one I am planning 1 male betta, 3 ottos, and 5 Corydoras pygmaus or hastatus. In the other, I am planning one male and 2 female dwarf puffers and some ghost shrimp (which may or may not become puffer food).

There are some other fish you could keep, but not very many. Google "nano fish".

The thing is, a 10 gallon is considered a nano-tank. The rules for lighting are different. 20" is not enough swimming room for most fish. I would't keep a goldfish (period, but if I were going to against my inclination) in anything less than a 15 (probably a 20 High - 15's are hard to find sometimes). I wouldn't keep 2 in less than 29, and if I were really planning on keeping a display tank with goldfish, I would go with a 46 bowfront, 50 Breeder, a 55 or a 65 and keep 3 - 4 goldfish and 3 - 4 Weather Loaches with the temp around 70 degrees. If I felt I absolutely needed more fish than that, I'd add a school of 6-10 white clouds. Also, if I had a hex tank, I wouldn't get more than 2 goldfish and 1 weather loach regardless of the size (the surface area just doesn't allow for much dissoved oxygen.)


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

tophat665 said:


> Fish do not grow to the size of the tank. More accurately, if you keep a fish in too small a tank, the outside will grow to the largest it can, subject to the maximum size of the fish, and the insides will grow to their maximum size - causing all sorts of problems. So if you keep a fish in too small a tank it will be crippled.
> 
> So in 10 gallons:
> Goldfish - 0
> ...


5-10 cories is too much for a 10 gallon, unless its a species tank 3-5


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## GalaxyGirl (Feb 1, 2007)

You can also go up to about 15 small tetras, they dont poop as much and theyre tiny, if I didnt have other fish I could have around 15 black neons.


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

musho3210 said:


> tophat665 said:
> 
> 
> > ...Small Corydoras (C. Pygmaeus, Hasorus, hastatus, panda) - 5 - 10...
> ...


That's why the species I listed. C. Pygmaeus, hasborus, and hastatus stay 1" to a shade over, and C. panda tops out at 2". The first three can be kept in the same sort of densities as the smaller tetras. Pandas need a bit more room. Surely, though, 5 (pandas) -10 (pygmaeus, hasbrosus, or hastatus) in a 10 gallon is well within the carrying capacity. These are not the same things as C. aeneus, or Brochis Splendens, which get around 3" and should not be kept as more than a pair in a 10 gallon (if at all. And please forebear to remind me that cories prefer shoals; there is disagreement on that point, though I prefer them in shoals myself.) To top that off, the fist three listed cories are less wedded to the bottom of the tank than most, and are frequently found schooling in midwater under the proper conditions, so issues of tank floor space are less germane for these than larger species.

Let me round this out a little more. There are at least 5 dwarf species of corydoras. Corydoras pygmeaus (Pygmy Cory), C. hastatus (Dwarf Cory), and C. hasbrosus (note: misspelled in orignal post) are fairly commpnly found in better fish stores. C. cochui and C. guapore are also in this group, but much, much rarer.

All of these are tiny, maximum length from 1 to 1.6" (2.5-3cm). All prefer to be in a larger school than larger cories (6 minimum, 10 better, 50 or 100 or more better still; there's no argument that these are schooling fish). All spend more time in midwater and like to rest on leaves of aquarium plants (they really prefer a densely planted tank - I sometimes see my Pygmy Cories resting halfway up the cabomba thicket in their tank). They are entirely peaceful, and should be kept only with other small, peaceful fish (msmall carachins like neons are ideal). Scotcat.com says that 10 gallons is ideal for a shoal of 8 C. hastatus (or 6 C. panda), and mentions breeding C. hasbrusus in a 5.5 gallon. They require small foods (brine shrimp, powdered flake, tubifex). They have a relatively wide range of water tolerance: pH 6-8, temp 72-80, and GH 5-19.

Panda cories are a little bigger, a more inclined to the bottom, and less needy of large schools (though 6 is still a good minimum number)

Finally, these little fellows are occasionally stocked in award winning planted tanks of as little as 1 gallon.


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## Sleepy (Feb 5, 2007)

tophat665 said:


> Panda cories are a little bigger, a more inclined to the bottom


Regardless of what cory, I would like to add that those fish need a sandy bottom.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

Sleepy said:


> tophat665 said:
> 
> 
> > Panda cories are a little bigger, a more inclined to the bottom
> ...


actually they dont need a sandy bottom, they love sand but all they need is gravel that doesnt have sharp edges so they wont damage there barbels.


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

Hear hear! Sandy is best, but rounded gravel will work just fine. I've got one tank that has coarse sand at the front and rounded river pebbles over the rest of the tank, with a nice cave that opens onto both, and I never see my cories anywhere but on the pebbles. (4 Sterbas and a 3-line - not apprpriate for 10 gallons.)


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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

Well, it seems that I have quite a few choices. By the way, are all the fish mentioned above for fresh water? Because I noticed that I could have 1 dwarf puffer fish, I thought that they were salt water?

Thanks


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

Puffy said:


> Well, it seems that I have quite a few choices. By the way, are all the fish mentioned above for fresh water? Because I noticed that I could have 1 dwarf puffer fish, I thought that they were salt water?
> 
> Thanks


A common misconception, dwarf puffers are 100% freshwater, petsmart :evil: says they require aquarium salt which is actually very wrong. Also dwarf puffers, despite there size, are agressive fish and love nipping fins.


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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> Puffy said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it seems that I have quite a few choices. By the way, are all the fish mentioned above for fresh water? Because I noticed that I could have 1 dwarf puffer fish, I thought that they were salt water?
> ...


Oh, ok thanks, so dwarf puffers are for fresh water and can be held in a 10 gallon tank (1 dwarf puffer) and just regular puffer fish are for salt water...

As for the biting, what other fish could go with a dwarf puffer? And how many?

I once had my betta in the 10 gallon tank and had to move him because he liked to bite gold fish fins. 

Thanks


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

well very rarely can you have a dwarf puffer share a tank with another fish. Otos work sometimes if you provide adequate plants to hide in. They do best in a species only tank.


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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> well very rarely can you have a dwarf puffer share a tank with another fish. Otos work sometimes if you provide adequate plants to hide in. They do best in a species only tank.


Ok thank you, could you please explain what a speicies tank is? And ive noticed bubbles at the surface of my tank right now, I know you get a lot when you add new water, but why so many right now?

Thanks


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

a species tank is simply a tank with only one species of fish in there. A tank filled with only fancy guppies is a species tank, a tank filled with only dwarf puffer is a species tank. I dont know about the bubbles though....


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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> a species tank is simply a tank with only one species of fish in there. A tank filled with only fancy guppies is a species tank, a tank filled with only dwarf puffer is a species tank. I dont know about the bubbles though....


Ok thank you.

Is there anything out there that is easy to feed, doesnt get big (can fit in a 10 gallon), cleans the tank and is ok with.... lets say tetras? Do shrimp clean tanks?

Thanks


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

yup thats an easy answer, ghost shrimp. They cost like 30 cents at petsmart/petco and my lfs sells really huge ones for 50 cents. They are cheap, and they do a great job at cleaning the tank of leftover food. They dont eat algae though, the amano shrimp eat algae, the ghost shrimp eat detritus.


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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> yup thats an easy answer, ghost shrimp. They cost like 30 cents at petsmart/petco and my lfs sells really huge ones for 50 cents. They are cheap, and they do a great job at cleaning the tank of leftover food. They dont eat algae though, the amano shrimp eat algae, the ghost shrimp eat detritus.


Thanks, that sounds cool how many of these would go in a 10 gallon tank? (I would think 1, because if there is a lot, they wont get the right amount of food. Am I right on that one?) Or do they get there own food, I would think they just clean up after the other fish right?
Thanks


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

you could fit around 5-10 in there, there very small and there stomachs are about as big as a medium sized brine shrimp so they eat very little. You can actually see there stomach, if you think there not getting enough to eat (if there stomachs are not full 5-10 minutes after feeding your fish) you might need to place some flakes where they can get it and the fish cant


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## Puffy (Mar 8, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> you could fit around 5-10 in there, there very small and there stomachs are about as big as a medium sized brine shrimp so they eat very little. You can actually see there stomach, if you think there not getting enough to eat (if there stomachs are not full 5-10 minutes after feeding your fish) you might need to place some flakes where they can get it and the fish cant


Ok Thanks


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