# Help choosing species of Rasbaras and Loaches



## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

If anyone has been following my posts, you know I'm getting a 50G soon. (I'm exited!)

I want to check and double check everything before I decide on fish because I don't want to change my mind after I buy things. 

I think I've decided my 50 gallon will be a southeast asian biotope.
(I was playing around with South American, but everyone does that.  I'll convert my 5 gallon into a tiny south america biotope.)

It will be soil-substrate with about 1-1.5 inches of sand on top. (Would the loaches go through to the soil layer? Even if they did, I don't see what the huge problem would be. Sure, a little cloud. There's eventually not going to be a filter in it, so wouldn't the cloud just settle?

Anyways, with southeast asian, the plant front is pretty simple. The two that stuck out are Hairgrass and Crypts. Crypts have a lot of variety, so that's all I need. 5-8 varieties and some hairgrass, driftwood, and done.

My question is about the fish...
I'd like rasboras and loaches. 
I'd really like *******, but I since they get so big I guess I'll find smaller loaches. Would definately like a group of 4-5. (Maybe more, I'd like activity on the bottom.)

I'd like 2 or 3 rasbora species, and perhaps a honey gourami later on.

Are glass catfish schooling or could I just get 2-3 and make them my centerpiece fish (instead of the gourami)?

I'd also like a variety of sizes and colors- I like the spotted rasbora. I assume about 8 of those.

What would you suggest?

Also, (I doubt it but it's worth a shot) could a Betta go in that tank too, or would the rasboras nip it to death?

Thanks.

I'm hoping this is a long discussion, since I'm not going to even think about buying fish for a couple months. (soil takes a lot longer to establish a balance.)
No, I don't even have the tank yet. Just planning. :-D:-D


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Kuhli loaches get three or four inches long but are really thin fish and have a pretty tiny bioload. You could easily have a dozen or more of them in a tank of that size along with the other fish you're talking about without a problem. Well, without a bioload problem, anyway. I had black kuhli loaches for a while, and I've gotta say...they're kind of boring fish. They're very nocturnal, so they spend most of their time hiding wherever they can all day long then come out at night to scavenge for food. Some other type of small loach might be a more active, interesting choice.

Glass cats are a shoaling species that should be kept in groups of 5-6 or more like other shoaling fish. They're pretty nervous fish as it is, so you definitely don't want to compromise them further by not having enough for them to feel comfortable.

I'm not sure about the betta and rasbora combination as I've never done it myself, but I believe there are lots of rasboras that aren't nippy at all and likely wouldn't bother a betta.


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## Hobo joe (Jun 10, 2010)

I would suggest
-harlequins
-scissortails
-silver-tips (not sure if they are rasboras)

what about some danios? leopard and long-fin zebra?


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Dwarf chain loaches (Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki) are small, very active and extremely cute. I keep them and I love them. You might want to consider them. They are great little fish!

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/dwarf-loach/


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

IMNTBATMAN:
Thanks for the tip. I may get a "moon" might if I decide on the loaches, but I'll try to find something more active.
Does anyone know of a text-only database of fish? All of the search engines except Aqua-fish.net are way too slow for my connection. I'll probably go to a library and do some hard-core research one day.

Hobo jo:
I read somewhere the danios prefer harder more basic water, so they're not really an option. This will be a blackwater pool type biotope. Barbs aren't out of the question though.

I'm considering these right now:
1 pair Blue band mouthbrooder - Betta enisae
8 Dwarf rasbora - Boraras maculatus
6 Harlequin Rasbora Trigonostigma heteromorpha (kinda iffy- they don't seem particularly colorful IMO)
8 Neon green rasbora Microrasbora kubotai

I could bump the numbers up and just get one more species, don't have any idea what. Maybe add some silver tips, but they don't really seem to 'pop' ether.


I may put some type of dwarf shrimp in as well... Many of them are from asia, and I think the mouthbrooder is too small to easily eat them. (I know the baby shrimp would probably get eaten, that's okay. Would like a 'natural' form, not red cherries or crystal reds. Might even introduce some scuds and see if they're eaten.)


I just noticed this should probably be in the fish forum- if anyone wants to move it that would be great. I posted this at 3:00 am so.... I guess I'm a fish addict.

Oh, the tank will be open top... Do any of these fish jump?
I suppose I could just buy a glass or plexiglass plate to go on top and act as a condensation tray...


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I see the reasoning, for the 20-minute rule for editing posts, but it's irritating. I hate doing two posts back to back.


Aunt kymmie: Thanks for the idea- Pygmy Loach sounds perfect. I guess that puts me at:
8-10 dwarf loach
8-10 Neon Rasbora
8-10 Dwarf rasbora (aka dwarf spotted rasbora)
1 pair of Betta (not typical Bettas, but something in the family) or Gourami (Maybe honey gourami?)

Might bring the numbers down to allow another species or up and maybe one other larger fish...
Gouramis are really abundant in the region... Kissing Gourami is a food fish there, they use it to stock ponds.

Maybe 1 pair honey gourami and 1 pair paradise fish?
Sounds like I'm done. 

Maybe get one of the other Betta species- Paradise fish are colorful, but many bettas are mouthbrooders and that would be cool too....

Maybe the loaches will spawn. I love a challenge, and I have a couple extra 10-gallon tanks....It's a shame they're nearly extinct in the wild, but that's all the more reason to build a biotope for them. Ensure survival of the species. Thats a lot of maybes.

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Do any of these fish jump? I was planning on the tank being topless... Could always get a glass plate though.
Found a 48" stand so I can use a 4-foot shop light and put a 5 or 10 beside the 50. Light two birds with one stone. 

Will probably use two bulbs, bringing the light up to 30-40W for a 50 and a 10... They'll be soil-substrate so they need the high light. (Soil substrate tanks are usually placed by a window and given a light. I think 40W 8 hours a day wouldn't be too much.)


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

There is alot of different things in this thread, so I'm only going to comment on a couple now, as it is close to my evening supper hour. I will probably have more tomorrow.

Loaches: beautiful and amazing little fish. But only some species will work in a 50g. And yes, they will dig through to the soil, that is their nature. Kymmie's dwarf loach suggestion is perfect for your setup, and they would be less likely to cause problems with the substrate; I have a group of five in my 70g Asian tank. And I have Botia kubotai (think Kymmie does too), they are perfect too, I have never seen any fish so playful, all day long, chasing each other with no rough stuff.

Rasbora are all peaceful. I have added several species to our profiles. The dwarf species (in the Boraras genus) are a bit tricky in large tanks. But all are non-aggressive and very peaceful. The Trigonostigma species are partiuclarly beautiful and suitable.

And that brings me to our profiles, we have a lot of fish and are working to add more regularly. Please make use of this resource.

If you intend anabantids, the tank must be well covered with glass to keep mositure and warmth in above the water; gourami, betta all breathe air, and if it is not warm health issues will occur. I have Chocolate gourami (two of the three species so far), they spawn regularly, as do my pygmy sparkling gourami. These are both a bit less "ordinary" and worth a look. And floating plants are mandatory with all these fihs, both for security, and to cut down the light; these fish are occur in darker waters.

Byron.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I came to the library today so that I can check the profiles.

I was definately planning floating plants, probably azolla and duckweed. I suppose I'll have to pay close attention and make sure they don't totally cover the surface- that would hurt the anabantids right?

Wow, Botia kubotai sound nice. How big do they get though? The fishforum database doesn't give a size, and another database I went to says they can hit 5 inches. Sounds a bit big...

Maybe 3 Botia kubotai
7 dwarf loach?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> I came to the library today so that I can check the profiles.
> 
> I was definately planning floating plants, probably azolla and duckweed. I suppose I'll have to pay close attention and make sure they don't totally cover the surface- that would hurt the anabantids right?
> 
> ...


Some of our profiles need revision as some info is missing, as you found out. Yes, five inches is the max, but a trio would be fine in a 50g and they get along fine with dwarfs which are also playful in all water levels, if you checked that profile.

For floating plants I would get Ceratopteris (it is native to SE Asia) and nothing is better for thepurpose. This is in our plant profiles. Duckweed doesn't really do the job; you need the dangling roots for the anabantids to browse, build bubblenests, etc., without choking the surface.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Do you mean Ceratopteris Thalictroides? I've been looking for that plant for a long time, sweet aquatics just recently got it in stock. 

I may get a Marimo ball instead of java moss- they're from japan, it's not too much of a stretch to call japan southeast asia...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> Do you mean Ceratopteris Thalictroides? I've been looking for that plant for a long time, sweet aquatics just recently got it in stock.
> 
> I may get a Marimo ball instead of java moss- they're from japan, it's not too much of a stretch to call japan southeast asia...


Ceratopteris cornuta is the name I used when entering this in our profiles. C. thalictroides is technically a different species, but you do see all these mis-named from time to time. Go by the appearance, the floating form is stunning, as the photos with our profile show. I bought one plant some 14 years ago and I still have dozens of these plants all descended from that one original.

Java Moss is lovely on bits of wood and rock. Mine arrived probably with some of the wood, and has slowly spread. Another great plant in a SE Asian setup b3ecause the fry and small fish can get into it. I'm sure this is one reason I have so many fry surviving from my sparkling gourami, as I see them (the fry) in the Moss quite a bit.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I actually have java moss in another tank, so I could move it over I suppose. I know guppy fry love it too.

I found some fish that are breathtaking, but apparently rare.

10 Microrasbora Erythromicron









10 Microrasbora Kubotai









10 Microrasbora rubescens









10 Dwarf Rasbora









12 Dwarf Loaches









1 male or a pair of Sphaerichthys vaillanti (max size 3 inches)
http://www.fischhaus-zepkow.de/Illustrationen/s_vaillanti.JPG

Heavily planted, and according to http://www.aqadvisor.com it's 75% stocked. Will probably keep the tank empty for a while- most of these fish are relatively rare. (rare = expensive)

Think that would be a nice setup? All the rasboras are about 1 inch, maybe 1.2 max. Might go for some kind of compatable larger fish... *shrug*
Colorful selection though, right?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

All three species of Chocolate Gourami (genus _Sphaerichthys_) should (= must as far as I'm concerned) be kept in groups. They are a shoaling fish, and while males will be territorial with each other, they have a very highly developed social structure which is quite impressive to behold. When I got my two species (_S. osphromenoides_ and _S. selatanensis_) I got three of each because that was all there were; they are almost identical (I included a photo of each species in the profile with the differentiation mentioned), and they have interacted quite well. The _S. osphromenoides_ have spawned several times (I was able to get 1 male and two females of this species) but the other three show no interest yet, so I'm assuming they are all male or female. I have three surviving fry from the various spawnings (I let nature takes its course). The _S. vaillanti_ i have not yet come across; interestingly, the _S. selatanensis_ were labelled as vaillanti, and I told the lady they were not, but as I bought the last three I don't think she cared anyway.

Where do you live that you can get those rare cypriniids? We only got some _Boraras brigittae_ recently, although we did have _B. merah_ earlier (I put these into my 70g and over 7 months they disappeared to just one, and it is now in the 10g with the _B. brigittae_ and seems quite happy). They are so small, they get lost in the 70g, and I suspect may have been pulled into the filter; if fry survive in that tank, so should these.

By the way, _Microrasbora erythromicron_ is no longer in _Microrasbora_, but has been moved to the genus _Danio_ as it has been determined they are in fact danios and not rasbora; same as the celestial and a couple others. Dr. Tyson Roberts deduced this in 2007, and set up the new genus, but some ichthyologists disagreed, but further scientific study by others has now confirmed Roberts was correct, and the name is now deemed valid as _Danio erythromicron._ And _Microrasbora kubotai_ is now _Microdevario kubotai_ thanks to Dr. Kottelat who is prob the leading authority on this family. I will be adding profiles of some of these shortly as I have time. Lovely fish.

Byron.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Wow, things are always changing. I like it. 

I was under the assumption that Danios prefer harder (and more basic) water than rasboras and tetras...
Would the fish I mentioned work in a softwater tank? (Ph 5-6, Kh <4)? 

My goal for the tank is a southeast asian wetlands/marshl...

(Will likely move my bamboo over to those tanks- they're emersed in my 5 and have easily tripled in size in the last 2 months- from 3 small leaves to 7-8 large ones with a new leaf sprouting every other day. Nice red roots so they're enjoying a soil-substrated aquarium and probably helping a LOT with the ammonia- All nitrogen-based parameters read 0, and apparently there's quite a bit of CO2 being produced by the substrate as proven by the explosive growth and lower Ph, as Diana Walstead claims.)

As far as getting the rare fish- I'm in Alabama (south-southeastern USA). There's not a single Fish club or mom&pop LFS in miles and miles. I'm going to rely on the internet. 

I'm in the process of finding small online fish companies- For example, I will NOT be shopping at thatfishplace- way overpriced because like normal pet chains, you're paying extra for the media empire. ($18 for a dwarf loach?! No way.)

I've found a couple small businesses, and I know a couple people who regularly import wild-caught fish for group purchases... (MzJinxd for one, who apparently used to post here in the shrimp forum before she left. Franksfish.com is another source I plan on contacting when I'm ready. Of course Aquabid as well- I might get lucky.)


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Most of the rasborin are fine in soft acidic water. I believe of those you mention only Danio_ erythromicron _requires alkaline water; I have yet to add this profile, but one source I just checked indicates it does not fare well in acidic water, as it comes from Lake Inle which is in a karstic valley and this means alkaline soils. Adding dolomite or crushed coral to up the hardness and pH seems necessary for this species. But the Boraras are fine in soft, acidic water, they come peat swamps as noted in the profile of Boraras brigittae.

Being in the US you have access to several online fish suppliers. Being in Canada, this creates difficulties for me, as there is customs (not that much if the permits from US Agriculture are OK) and more importantly the airport. I would have to drive to the airport, then there can be flight delays or early arrivals, lost parcels...any number of problems. I prefer leaving that to the pros who are used to it and have it generally worked out. Though sometimes they do lose whole shipments of fish through all this. I'd hate to spend a couple hundred dollars on a fish order only to have them arrive dead, with no recourse to the sender.

Byron.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Well if I find a good place online that guarantees live arrival and ships to canada I'll be sure to let you know.

I know aquabid has canada listings from time to time, like there's one guy that if i remember right is in vancouver, and sells RCS.
I've also heard that a few places with a large enough order will pay a courier to deliver it across the border in person to prevent delays....


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> Well if I find a good place online that guarantees live arrival and ships to canada I'll be sure to let you know.
> 
> I know aquabid has canada listings from time to time, like there's one guy that if i remember right is in vancouver, and sells RCS.
> I've also heard that a few places with a large enough order will pay a courier to deliver it across the border in person to prevent delays....


The Vancouver fellow is probably Charles at Canadian Aquatics. I buy from him regularly; he's great and his fish are top quality, direct from his exporters in SA. And there are a couple stores that mainly have wild-caught fish direct from SA or Asia. But for obvious reasons all of these have limited species because they have to sell them. "Specialist" fish that only a few of us want are usually more expensive and only we buy them, so one has to understand the business aspect.

There are places in the US that will ship to Canada, but as I said the problem is mainly the airport. I just can't afford to risk that.

I must have a look at Aquabid.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I was looking online, and found a good deal on some green tiger barbs. They're from southeast asia and like acidic water...

Would they eat microrasboras.... That is the question....Quite beautiful and available locally...
BTW, I can't resist....








Sorry if I'm wasting Tropical Fishkeeping's bandwidth. 

I'm beginning to cheer up, since a local LFS can order:
Brilliant rasbora - Rasbora borapetensis
Emerald Eye Rasbora RASBORA DORSIOCELLATA DORSIOCELLATA 
Scissortail Rasbora RASBORA TRILINEATA 
Green Tiger Barb PUNTIUS TETRAZONA (too big?)
Black Ruby - Barbus Nigrofasciatus (too big?)
Odessa Barb - PUNTIUS PADAMYA (beginning to see a pattern here?)
Tinfoil Barb - BARBUS SCHWANEFELDI (Forget I even mentioned this one. max size 13 inches... lol.)
Red Honey Dwarf Gourami COLISA SOTA "GOLD" (Assuming Colista Chuna "gold")
Croaking Gourami - TRICHOPSIS PUMILUS 

I still want that samurai gourami though... Looks awesome. Not sure what I'm going to do, but might buy most of the shoaling fish at the LFS and hold out for the high-price stuff online...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> I was looking online, and found a good deal on some green tiger barbs. They're from southeast asia and like acidic water...
> 
> Would they eat microrasboras.... That is the question....Quite beautiful and available locally...
> BTW, I can't resist....
> ...


This barb is actually the Tiger Barb; breeders have for quite a while been producing variants from selective breeding (not dyeing in this case) and there are several. Co-incidentally, I just updated the Tiger Barb profile yesterday, and mentioned this. You might want to check it out. I'm afraid you will see that all these "variants" are as risky as the original and not community fish as we tend to think of them. I would not mix any of the TB variants with smaller fish. The species name is incorrect too (can't win can you), as I explain in the profile. 

Never been much on barbs because their active boisterous nature makes it difficult to keep other sedate fish, and in my Asian setups I have very sedate fish. I have a group of the Emerald Eye Rasbora, quite nice fish, in a dim light the blue eye really shines; this species (genus actually) name has changed too--it is now Brevibora dorsiocellata. In only 2009 a major study by T.Y.Liao and others appeared, and many of the "Rasbora" species pretty much got shifted elsewhere. This followed upon earlier suggestions by Kottelat and Roberts and others, so it is no surprise. The Rasbora/Danio/Barb fish in the cyprinids are undergoing extensive research and phylogenetic study and have for the last decade. These genera have been quite a catch-all in some respects.

Byron.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I was just copy and pasting from the LFS's supplier, definately don't expect them to be accurate. I was hoping that in a group of 6-8 they might not be too agressive, I was just wondering if they would devour the little rasboras.

I guess they would. I got some books, I'll look a few up and see what tickles my fancy. 

What about the two under the green tiger barb in the list- would they be better?
ie. is it a tiger barb thing or just a larger sized barb thing..


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Goodness, I must get more profiles done.:lol:

Assuming you mean the Odessa and Tinfoil Barbs; the Odessa (the name *is* still Puntius padamya:shock occurs in ponds fed by a river in Burma. The river flows over limestone and has a recorded pH of 11 and matching hardness. This fish would not suit your rasbora/gourami tank. Plus, while not feisty like Tigers, they are liable to eat anything smaller. And at close to 3 inches, anything like the rasbora you list could likely be a snack.

The Tinfoil (it is now Barbonymus schwanenfeldii) gets to be 14 inches and will (naturally) eat anything smaller if it can.

Generally speaking, barbs are active and somewhat boisterous. With similar-sized fish they are normally peaceful. But of course, their activity can cause havoc for quieter fish. For instance, you would not want them in with gourami such as your licorice, chocolate, etc. I had concerns over my "active" loaches with my chocs, but that has worked out fine as far as I can tell because the loaches stay down at the bottom and the chocs normally near the surface among plants. The dwarfs are quite active, swimming all over the tank, but I guess their small size sends a message that "we're friendly." But I would never add zebra danios to this setup, much too active mid-water for the gourami. And even the common "rasbora."

It is (as far as I know) only the Tigers and their variants that have a decidely nippy feisty streak programmed into them; many things can unleash it.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I had a group of black ruby barbs that seemed decidedly less problematic than tiger barbs, but then again they weren't being kept with fish that would provide them with a lot of nipping targets, anyway.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I guess I can see the point- Is ther a such thing as a dwarf barb?
Calmwaters gave me the name of someone who imports fish- with a list of about 800 species.:shock:

Also, decent prices... chain loaches for $10 a piece... Pretty high, but the cheapest I've found.

The rasboras wouldn't bother the samurai Gourami or viceversa?
I know some calm fish (dither fish) so maybe your chain loaches were appreciated? 

Let be browse the list and see what sounds good


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> I guess I can see the point- Is ther a such thing as a dwarf barb?
> Calmwaters gave me the name of someone who imports fish- with a list of about 800 species.:shock:
> 
> Also, decent prices... chain loaches for $10 a piece... Pretty high, but the cheapest I've found.
> ...


Dwarf barb--not that I've found yet, though I admit to being less informed on barbs in general. In my work updating and adding profiles on barbs it seems the common ones are about the smallest, so 2-3 inches and up is the size for this group of fish. One thing all of my resource authorities agree on is that they are active, need to be in groups and not kept with smaller fish.

I got my dwarf (chain) loaches for $10 up here in Canada (usually more expensive than US prices) and this is the cheapest I've seen them.

Rasbora are very peaceful and not "active" and thus well suited to the quiet rarer gourami. I have 3 different species of rasbora in with my chocs and pygmys, no problems.

My Asians are in a 70g, and there are only about 40 fish in the tank so there's a fair bit of space, plus thick plants...all this works to make fish feel comfortable.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

My chain loaches cost me $13 a piece here in the states. They are fantastic, amusing and playful little fish and worth every penny. If you decide to get them you WON'T be sorry!!


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Trichopsis pumila 
Tanichthys albonubes
Rasbora trilineatus
Boraras maculata
Boraras merah 
Boraras urophthalmoides
Danio albolineatus
Danio choprae 
Barbus nigrofasciatus
Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki 
Botia kubotai 
Hara jerdoni 

The Danios might be a bit too active- I'd like a second opinion.
I only found one barb that I thought might work...

I'm not sure why I'm so dead-set to have danios, barbs, and rasboras... I guess I know that the Danios and barbs will be more active, but if all the fish are about the same size (.5 to <2 inches) would it really be a huge problem?

Still looking up for all this even though the 50 gallon fell through.  Dunno when I'll be getting one :sob:


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> Trichopsis pumila
> Tanichthys albonubes
> Rasbora trilineatus
> Boraras maculata
> ...


There are fish in this list that absolutely should not be in the same aquarium.

Tanichthys albonubes is a cool water fish, and while many "keep" it in normal warm aquaria, it is not good to do so. Plus, the temp for some of the other fish you have should be 80F or higher, even worse for this poor minnow that comes from quite cool mountain streams.

The Boraras species really need their own environment. They are very tiny. These are simply not "community fish" as most of us use the term.

The danios and loaches are fine together; not sure about Hara jerdoni though, I have never seen this in stores, only know it from online (I'd like to get it if I could find it), it seems very quiet and shy but presumably would manage with the more active loaches. Both species you list are not rough but they are very active, and this can unsettle "shy" fish so I just caution it with Hara jerdoni in the same tank.

Remember that all of these are shoaling fish, needing groups; most authors mention 8-9 or more to ensure there is no rough stuff from the danios, barbs and larger rasbora--Rasbora trilineata is mentioned as a fin nipper with long-finned fish, so something to bear in mind if gourami may be in the picture.

Byron.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Alrighty, no minnow. 

My original idea was to just have lots and lots of really tiny fishes, so if it comes down to it I just won't get any of the larger Gourami, and won't get the large Botia.

Was definately going to have at least 10 of every species...

EDIT- not 10 of all the listed species, just 4 or 5.


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## burnsbabe (Jul 15, 2010)

This thread is already super thorough, but I wanted to drop my two cents in. My 30 gallon is set up as a SE asian biotope as well. Currently I have three Powder Blue Dwarf Gouramis and (here's what I want to draw your attention to) a school of 12 Lambchop Rasboras (Rasbora espei). At least I believe that's how you spell the scientific name. 

They're delightful. They look a lot like the Harlequins but I'm very happy and their coloration is much brighter than you might expect. At least give them a look!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

burnsbabe said:


> This thread is already super thorough, but I wanted to drop my two cents in. My 30 gallon is set up as a SE asian biotope as well. Currently I have three Powder Blue Dwarf Gouramis and (here's what I want to draw your attention to) a school of 12 Lambchop Rasboras (Rasbora espei). At least I believe that's how you spell the scientific name.
> 
> They're delightful. They look a lot like the Harlequins but I'm very happy and their coloration is much brighter than you might expect. At least give them a look!


A lovely rasbora indeed. By the way, the scientific name is now Trigonostigma espei, check out our profile (click on the shaded name of fish in posts to see that profile, or use the second tab from the left in the blue bar at the top) for details; the meaning of the names is explained too. All three commonly-seen species in this genus are in the profiles, the fourth is not (yet) as it is extremely rare.

Byron.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

First off, I hate to gravedig (bring back old posts) but I broke down and bought a Betta.

Would any of the fish in this thread do well with a Betta?

I'll assume that loaches are fine, but I was hoping for something in the middle levels...
(chain loaches are a bit expensive...)


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## bones14 (Mar 19, 2010)

I have Neon Tetras with a Betta in a 10g tank.I've seen people on here say that they don't work together but mine don't pay much attention to each other and I haven't had any issues with the two.Just guessing but something like Harlequin Rasboras would probably be ok too.My dad has a Betta in his guppy tank with no problems.The Betta doesn't even bother the fry.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> First off, I hate to gravedig (bring back old posts) but I broke down and bought a Betta.
> 
> Would any of the fish in this thread do well with a Betta?
> 
> ...


Assuming you mean a male Betta splendens, yes and no. First, I am in good company saying that this fish deserves its own space. Females do well in community tanks if in a group of 6 or so, males do not. Never more than one male in a tank, and on his own is preferable for the fish's health.

Having said that, if space permits, suitable fish can include bottom fish like Corydoras, Otos; mid-water fish of the genus Trigonostigma (the "common" rasbora). Boraras are so small they would inevitably be eaten, depending upon the temperament of the particular Betta. Any other fish with colourful finnage (such as guppies) are usually seen as "rivals" and cause the Betta to be aggressive or stressed by the annoyance of perceived rivals.

And at this point a comment on the issue in the subsequent post. Different fish within a species can behave differently. But what must be remembered is that this species is programmed a certain way by nature (even though this is something of a "domesticated" species now). It has inherent traits and instincts. And just as with all animals (and humans) different factors can affect the fish's behaviour with respect to these traits and instincts. And it can go either way, better or worse, from the inherent trait/instinct. Largely due to environmental stimuli as a recent (and the first) scientific study on shoaling fish has now proven.

The reasons for keeping a male Betta splendens alone are several. First, the behavioural aspects alluded to above. Second, many fish, including even those otherwise "peaceful" can turn nippy in the presence of so tempting a target (same holds for angels). Third, Betta are quiet calm fish; over-active fish around them is unsettling, adding to stress and this means poorer health. Aggressive eaters can cause a Betta to not eat properly, and even refuse to eat, a common issue again with angels, discus, and gourami, if kept with too-active a fish.

Byron.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Do you think 3 Botia Kubotai would do well with the Betta, or would they stress him out?

Was thinking of the biotope thing still, so neons and tetras are out.


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## LisaC144 (Oct 22, 2009)

In my opinion, bettas are sedate fish. With the boisterious personality of the loaches, I personally wouldn't mix the two.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I agree with Lisa. I tried a group of B. kubotai in a 70g with Chocolate Gourami (and several other quiet fish including some Trigonostigma espei). I was concerned about the loaches' activity level, and I kept close observation. I could not detect any particular stress to the gourami--they never would flee if a loach approached, they continued to feed from the surface when the loaches also did the same (as loaches frequently will do), so things seemed fine. But I now have three of nine gourami, the others developed some sort of skin disorder which is very common in this species when they are stressed. I can't be sure it was the loaches, but they may well have been a contributing factor.

Aside from my previous possible suggestions for tankmates (which by the way I garnered from a reliable source) I still say a male Betta splendens is a stand-alone fish. A perfect fish for one of those Nano-style 5g tanks. They were made for each other.

Byron.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Maybe it's a personality thing, but my Betta Splendens seems extremely active. I suppose I'll keep him in the 5...

Is a 2 gallon cruel and unusual punishment? He seems active and is making a bubble nest...


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