# New Aquarium



## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Okay so I have been in the fish keeping hobby forever with my mom, but this is my first attempt at it my self doing it the correct way.

My old set up. 29 gallon glass aquarium and hood\light (second hand not in best of shape). One Aqueon 5-15 filter, and One Tetra Whisper 10-30 gallon filter. Then I had some crap heater that had no thermostat, and i would have to get up and turn on and off to manage temperature. A standard stick on thermometer, and some river pebble substrate, and fake plants. The chemicals I had was very basic and cheap (Start-Right-Food both Jungle).

Now i have the same aquarium and hood\light, substrate, thermometer, and plants. However I upgraded to two Tetra Whisper Internal Filters (10-30). Tetra submersible heater (10-30 and maintains water temperature at 76-78 degrees Fahrenheit depending on Day\ Night). I also gathered some better chemicals. I have Start-Zyme, Algae-Control, Wardley Tropical Flake food, 5n1 Test Strips, Aqua-Safe, Aquarium Salt, and some Fungus Clear. 
I know that some of this is not the best or some people even say it does not work, but its what i can find considering the closest lfs is 30mins- 1hour away and they don't stock much but fish. So this is what i have to work with right now its the best i can do and please don't down on it to much.

My first attempt by my self with the old set up was not so succesfull, well actually it was a complete failure. I had the equipment that I listed as Old set up. Well i added water, substrate, fake plants, filters (with no cartridges in them. Then i put the start right per directions in the water and ran it for 24 hours before adding filter cartridges. Then i ran for 24 more hours and then I added fish. Here is where i think i made my crucial mistake. I added 5 tiger barbs, 5 skirt tetra's, 1 golden algea eater, and 1 (what i think it was called) Upside Down catfish. Well i know that was to many fish at once with out cycling (which i did not know about till recently). With the first weekly water change came the first dead fish (the algea eater). Then my barbs started changing to a lighter color one by one and started flipping upside down, while still alive and breathing. Then the barbs started dying and the Tetras started changing colors and well dying. Then the catfish. Now i have a feeling they all died from stress from ammonia, or nitrite poisoning, and stress. This is all of coarse after doing hours of research.

After the passing of the fish i bought some aquarium salt and cleaned everything very well with scalding hot water and boiled the substrate ( I know it a no no with epoxy covered substrate but i think it okay with natural river pebbles like i have). Then i went and got my Current Equipment again it's two Tetra Whisper Internal Filters, Tetra Submersible 10-30 heater, Aqua-Safe, Start-Zyme, Aquarium Salt, Algae-Control, 5n1 test strips, Wardley Tropical Flake food. Then i added water ran filters with no cartiges for 24 hours with just aqua-safe and heater in it. Then i added substrate, start-zyme, and fake plants.Well that's pretty much where I'm at right now. This is day 3 I been feeding 3 flakes every 12 hours to the tank trying to get the cycle started.

Now time for my questions, which I know is what the forum is about and for. I just wanted to give the most detailed info I could about my situation, and equipment. My main and major question is ,Since i added what was supposed to be beneficial live bacteria blend(Start-zyme) and I'm following the directions (1 Capful per ten gallons to start for the first time then 14 days later 2 capfuls per 10 gallons) and feeding it every 12 hours 3 flakes of food, if I continue to feed the tank 3 pieces of food every 12 hours can I on day 21 add 4 zebra danio's ( since i heard that this the hardiest fish). Will this be safer for the fish and will it help with cycling. I guess to put it simply can i do fish less-into-fish cycle. Do three weeks of fish less cycling with whats supposed to be a live blend of benificial bactieria( Start-zyme), and feeding the tank every 12 hours 3-4 flakes). Then adding in a 1.5 fish per 10 gallons 4 zebra danios for my tank (29 gal) on day 21? Also another question how many cory cats do you think I could put in this tank when i get it cycled?


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## bigfish93 (Jul 7, 2009)

First, welcome to the forum. We are glad to have you here and we are always willing to help. This hobby can be a little overwhelming at first, so we will help you out one step at a time starting with the cycle.

I personally do not believe in all that "bacteria in a bottle" stuff. A fishless cycle is accomplished by dosing the tank with an ammonia source. The most common ammonia source is pure ammonia, which can be found in a bottle at ace hardware. Other people have used fish food to provide ammonia, but this takes a little bit longer because the food has to break down before it turns into ammonia. The hardest part is the daily dosing for 4-8 weeks because it requires a lot of patience. Nitrifying bacteria takes a while to get established and the truth is, it really can't be sped up with artificial products. You simply have to wait. 

This is where a good water test kit comes in. Most of the people on here reccommend the API Freshwater Master Liquid Test Kit, including myself. Test your water every other day and watch for the spikes. First you will see an ammonia spike. Then you will see a nitrIte spike and the ammonia should slowly go down to 0. The last spike is a nitrAte spike and the nitrIte should go down to 0. Once your nitrAte reading is 20 or lower, your tank is cycled and ready for fish. As I mentioned earlier, this step takes a lot of patience and can take 4-8 weeks. 

You could add the Danios, but I do not reccommend it. No matter how hardy the fish is, it still goes through stress when exposed to ammonia or nitrIte. Stress weakens the immune system and makes the fish very vunerable to disease. Another problem with adding the Danios, is once your tank is cycled, then you are stuck with a fish that you may not want in your aquarium.


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

21 days and you are halfway through what could be a traditional fishless cycle. I also don't trust the stuff in bottles. Some do. I don't. Do you know anyone that keeps fish? If so, you might be able to get some seeding material from them to help speed up your cycle.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

I dont know anyone else around with an established tank i could borrow anything from. Also i know i need a better test kit but all i had was 12 bucks to get a test kit so i figured the strips would be better then nothing. Im really trying to avoid putting pure ammonia in my tank ( as i dont know whats pure or not and i really dont have cash for it right now). Im just trying to get the ammonia in there with the fish food. Which i heard would work if I fed the tank ever 12 hours 3-4 flakes of food? Also i know many dont trust the bottled bacteria and I'm not using that as my only source i just figured it might help? If not it was 3 bucks lol
s


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

okay so i think this week on my way to houma, im getting some cash for x-mas, i will get a new test kit and some pure ammonia. Anyone have any luck with the winn-dixie brand ammonia. It says Win-Dixie Ammonia -Clear- ingrediants Ammonium Hydroxide. When i shook it it foamed but not as bad as the one that had surfactants and dyes and purfume. and between my fingers it felt like water where as the other felt like soapy water


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

also can anyone point me in the right direction towards a cheap but affective test kit i going to be limited to around 25 bucks'


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

Test kit, get the API Master kit. It's a liquid kit and accurate and pretty much the standard.

Ammonia, I don't know...if you have an Ace Hardware near you can get pure there. It's pure for sure so no guessing.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

okay yea i got one about 5 mins up the road but the test kit i really cant afford the master test kit its almost forty dollors and i only got 25


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

Get at least the Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate to start. Take your water to the LFS to see if they can tell you what your pH is...that's good to know for future fish selection. You'll have to have it tested again when the cycle is done because the pH can be crazy during the cycle.

So grab the ammonia and the test kits and you are good to go at least for the cycle. When you dose the ammonia into your tank, you'll only need a very little bit. For a 29g tank you want about a teaspoon. That will get you up to around 5ppm ammonia. You want to keep it between 3-5ppm. Much more than that and you can slow the cycle or even kill it off. Test ammonia every 2-3 days and add ammonia as needed to get back to that 3-5ppm.

You can also order the kit...it's much cheaper...

http://www.kensfish.com/product1299.html


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Hello and Welcome!



Snype2live said:


> I have Start-Zyme, Algae-Control, Wardley Tropical Flake food, 5n1 Test Strips, Aqua-Safe, Aquarium Salt, and some Fungus Clear.
> I know that some of this is not the best or some people even say it does not work, but its what i can find considering the closest lfs is 30mins- 1hour away and they don't stock much but fish. So this is what i have to work with right now its the best i can do and please don't down on it to much.


I won't down on you ... too much =)

Just wanted to make sure you're not using all of that right now. The salt would be only if you are doing saltwater, or brackish fish. It can also be used to treat some illnesses in freshwater fish but you have to be careful as long exposure is very harmful. Same goes with the Fungus medication.

I assume you are not using it all, just wanted to be sure 



Snype2live said:


> My first attempt by my self with the old set up was not so succesfull, well actually it was a complete failure. I added 5 tiger barbs, 5 skirt tetra's, 1 golden algea eater, and 1 (what i think it was called) Upside Down catfish. Well i know that was to many fish at once with out cycling (which i did not know about till recently). Now i have a feeling they all died from stress from ammonia, or nitrite poisoning, and stress. This is all of coarse after doing hours of research.


Yep, you've nailed the cause. To look at the bright side, you've now learned and in your research have undoubtedly uncovered addition information beyond cycling a tank to help you in your hobby.

I'd like to talk about the fish you have though. The Golden Algea Eater is just a color variation of the Chinese Algea Eater I think. They can be an aggressive fish, and can get big. They are probably not a good choice for a community aquarium and a 29g is probably too small but could possibly be workable if you really want one.

Upside down cats like to school, they'd probably be happier with at least 3.

Tiger Barbs can be aggressive and fin nippers, not great for a community tank. A larger group can lessen that.

Take a look at the Tropical Fish Profiles at the top of the page here and read up on each fish you'd like to put in your tank. Lots of great information there (it is where I got the info for the fish you had =)



Snype2live said:


> cleaned everything very well with scalding hot water and boiled the substrate ( I know it a no no with epoxy covered substrate but i think it okay with natural river pebbles like i have).


Careful, a lot of the packaged 'natural' color gravel are still coated in a clear epoxy. If they really are uncoated stones though then not a problem (but boiling rocks can be dangerous, if they have trapped water in them. I can turn to steam, which is higher volume than liquid water, causes the pressure to increase and boom, rock shards flying!)



Snype2live said:


> if I continue to feed the tank 3 pieces of food every 12 hours can I on day 21 add 4 zebra danio's ( since i heard that this the hardiest fish). Will this be safer for the fish and will it help with cycling. I guess to put it simply can i do fish less-into-fish cycle. Do three weeks of fish less cycling with whats supposed to be a live blend of benificial bactieria( Start-zyme), and feeding the tank every 12 hours 3-4 flakes). Then adding in a 1.5 fish per 10 gallons 4 zebra danios for my tank (29 gal) on day 21? Also another question how many cory cats do you think I could put in this tank when i get it cycled?


You'll want to test the water and ensure your ammonia and nitrate levels are not threw the roof. Using fish food works to cycle a tank, but is impossible to precisely control the levels of ammonia. As already mentioned, a tank is fully cycled when both ammonia and nitrite are 0, nitrate will likely never be zero and can only be reduced by doing a partial water change (~25% once a week).

About water testing, you said you only had about $25 for it. Well, Amazon.com is your friend. You can get the master test kit for about that much (shipping may push it a little over). The liquid tests are better because they tend to be a bit more accurate. The strips do work, but over time they'll absorb moisture from the air and become less accurate. So by all means use the ones you have now, they'll at least give you an idea.

Before you put fish in you'll want to vacuum the gravel to remove all the excess food that is decaying. The fish will be producing the ammonia and you'll no longer want the decaying food. The fish store should sell them if you don't already have one. It's a ~1 foot long large hard plastic tube connected to a length of flexible tubing. You create suction with it and have it drain into a bucket that's located below the bottom of the tank.

Hope this helps!


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Thank you very much nubster. That is an amazing price for the master test kit, 12 dollars cheaper then pet smarts online.

Geomancer I no longer have any of these fish. They all died sadly. What I thinking about going with is some cory cats and zebra danios, or neon tetras. As for the chemicals the only thing I use right now is I put 3 teaspoons of aquarium salt(to get it conditioned and help with stress when fish get put in) and the right amount of aqua safe( water declorinater and conditioner) and start-zyme(live bactira blend to atleast try and help cycle) and i have left alone since then except 3-4 flakes every 12 hours. 

Another question does a aquarium light make the water look kinda dusty on top or what? I don't have the class piece that goes between hood and light (second hand pretty bad looking aquarium). I know this is bad for water evaporation, but its what i got again. Or is this something wrong with the water is it dust or what? Also i can only see it when i look from the botom of tank up to light not from top down??


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

It's a film that forms...it's pretty common and caused by decaying organic matter in the tank, in your case the fish food.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

so this is not a bad thing?


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Okay so i got ammonia today , its a surfine product ingridiants say ammoniom-hydroxide(contains no phosphorus). when i shake it it only bubbles like water and is back to normal within 3 seconds. Does this sound good. i paid 95cents for 32 fl. oz.


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

Sounds ok. I think it's usually on the label if it contains surfactant but I can't be 100%.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

okay well label does not list anything and i heard as long as it dont foam its okay


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Another question but this is acutally about the forums here .. is it okay since this is the fresh water aquarium thread to talk about what kind fish and equipment as long as i dont vere off to much on plants and other stuff that is totally off subject ??


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

so guy's and gals guess what i got my api master test kit today and my pure ammonia the other day so i guess its on to cycling..what should my next step be


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

I need help cycling i have api test kit , and ammonia ?


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

I haven't tried doing a fishless cycle before so I can't offer much advice.

I would read this sticky that is at the top of the forum.

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

It talks about doing a cycle using pure Ammonia (you can not have any fish with this method until the cycle is complete).


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

thanks anyway geomancer, well i have it up to 4ppm and can anyone that knows anything about chemistry look up cas 1336-21-6 is cause that's what it says on bottle ammonium-hydroxide( 1336-21-6) contains no phosphorus.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

*Tap water parameters*

0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 8.2 ph. stocking options for this please? also tank size smaller then thought its 22g


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## AlanYoung (Jan 9, 2012)

Nice post ! 
From Last one month i was searching for best aquarium for my home . But i didn't get useful tips to purchase a new aquarium but right now i have read your guidelines ,And i will follow these tips while i will purchase my new aquarium.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

*Ph*

Since I am now cycling my 22g tank. I was wandering would 8.2 be to high for most tropical fish to survive in? cause thats what my tap water test for. Am I'm trying to figure out stocking options besides A.ciclids


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Make sure the tap water you are testing for pH has sat out for 24 hours before testing. It can drop a little over a day.

There are some fish that you can get, look over the fish profiles here, most list the pH ranges they will tolerate.

pH is not something that can not easily be changed. Using driftwood can slightly lower pH as it leaches tannins (which is a weak acid) into the water, plus fish like real driftwood. The tannins also make the water a light brown color (same kind of idea behind tea), there are ways to try and lessen it if it bothers you (like boiling the wood).


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

*Fish*

Well I heard it's better to just leave it alone, that unless the fish are not wild caught or I'm not trying to breed them that they will live and that I should just leave the ph stable cause I can cause more issues then benefits by trying to alter it.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

That is very true, it is not something you want to mess with using chemicals.

The driftwood is more of a natural way, plus makes a great decoration. Many people use it quite successfully. It won't radically alter pH, and does not make the tank any particular pH. It just has a slightly lowering effect. For example, it could get your 8.2 to something just under 8 which opens up your possibilities.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Okay let me make my question a little more specific lol would 8.2 kill a tank of 2 blue dwarf gouromis and 8 cory's in my 25g tank with ph of 8.2


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## angella (Dec 21, 2011)

Snype2live said:


> Okay let me make my question a little more specific lol would 8.2 kill a tank of 2 blue dwarf gouromis and 8 cory's in my 25g tank with ph of 8.2


I believe the Gourami's prefer at least slightly lower pH than 8.2, and most of the Cories are soft-water as well. But I think some cories would be ok, what kind did you have in mind?


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

*Stocking options*

Well when I looked it up on the Tropical Fish Profiles, I believe it had the Blue Groumis at acidic to basic (pH 5.5-8.0)?? With the cory's I don't have any idea cause I love all of them. I really like the more vibrant colors and had also thought about some guppies.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

*Water parameters*

Okay so i just tested my water parameters and got 2ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, and 8ph. So something I did before i got the ammonia(monday) is helping serverly cause it dropped from 4.5ppm to 2ppm in 48 hours(maybe less). Maybe I had some bacteria built up from feeding the tank for a week or maybe the start zyme working. I don't know any suggestions?? I'm excited to actually see a change and what about my ph any hints as to why it dropping?? I haven't done anything to the tank , I mean its a good thing i just like to have idea of whats going on.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

*Water Parameters and stocking options*

Okay so water test showed 1ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite( shouldn't it be showing trace amounts by now??), 0ppm nitrate, and 8.0ph.

I also added a bubble stone today with a pump, that's pumping out at around 2800cc a minute.

So for stocking options I'm thinking 8 Cory's (Panda, Starbi, Emerald, Skunk). 1 male and 1 female of each species, and then 8 Guppies (or 12 if everyone thinks my 2 tetra internal whisper 10-30 can handle bio load with cory's cleaning some to). I wanna go with 4 Blue Cobra Guppies (1 male, 3 females), 4 Green Cobra Guppies (1 male, 3 females) and 4 Endler's Livebearers(1 male, 3 females). I think my ratio to males to females is correct??

Also on a different note ( and probably a stupid question). Could my tank take a full live stock as soon as I'm done cycling it with ammonia???


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Am I doing the fish-less cycle right adding enough ammonia to get it to 4-5ppm and letting it drop to .5-1ppm before dosing again and bringing it back up to 4-5ppm then letting it drop again an just continuing this cycle.


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## Molinious (Jan 12, 2012)

Iv always found that when starting a new aquarium (if your lucky enough to have another aquarium in the house) is to use some of the water from another aquarium to start the cycling process off. When doing a water change in the other aquarium use the water taken out in the new one. Just something iv always done not necessarily a wide spread opinion


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

i dont have that option tho


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Snype2live said:


> Am I doing the fish-less cycle right adding enough ammonia to get it to 4-5ppm and letting it drop to .5-1ppm before dosing again and bringing it back up to 4-5ppm then letting it drop again an just continuing this cycle.


Yes, you keep doing that until it reads 0 the next day. Then you keep it up, but test nitrites. When both go to 0, and nitrates start to rise, you're good to go and can stop adding ammonia.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Is it normal in the first week to see drastic changes in Ammonia but no Nitrites at all?? cause in 48 hours my ammonia dropped 2.5 ppm but i never saw any Nitrites and my nitrates are some where between 0ppm and 5ppm cause its not bright yellow (0) and its also not orange(5).


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Since this is my first does of ammonia is it normal to see it disappear( or as i heard someone else say it get adsorbed into some things in the tank)... and then after a second dose the nitrites start appearing cause this has me worried i am trying to do everything right and just keep hitting walls. I'm using ammonium-hydroxide. is this my problem


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Day 11 4ppm ammonia, 0nitrite, 5ppm nitrtates, and 8.2 ph


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

Test results today where a little more up lifting it's testing 4ppm ammonia but you can tell the color is lessing so its going down again, nitrite 0ppm but it is slightly darker then 0ppm but not as dark as .25ppm, and nitrates still showing 5ppm. On a different note anyone know where to get some replacement test tubes??


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

day 13 4 Ammonia .25 Nitrite 10 Nitrates


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Are you putting in the same amount of ammonia every day? Or are you putting in however much it takes to get to some ppm?

Nitrites shouldn't spike a second time unless there is an increase in ammonia.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

i am doing the add and wait method of adding ammonia till i get 4ppm (whick is 10mls from 1 ppm) and waiting for it to go back to 1 then add again till it drops back to 1 in 12 hours , and i havent had a nitrite spike yet so idk where that came from lol. today test showed 4ppm ammonia, .25 nitrite, 10ppm nitrtate.


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## Snype2live (Jan 5, 2012)

day 16 ammonia 2pmm nitrite 1pmm nitrate 20ppm


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