# How do you all keep your water so CLEAN!?



## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I have a 10 gallon Fresh Water Tropical tank set up.

It is over stocked with fish.

2 Black Mollies (one male, one female)
2 Yellow Mollies (I think both males)
2 red/black Platys (I think both females)
2 Clear red/black Platys (don't know sex)
4 algae eaters.(1 is pregnant and laying eggs)
2 Mystery Snails (we used to have four but 2 died)

Our water gets cloudy every weekend, I vacuum the poop from the bottom to help clean the tank. 

Right now one of our algae eaters laid eggs and a few hatched (i am guessing from a previously dropping).
The mollies have been matting like rabbits.

I have been using Ammonia Remover but I don't want to put too many chemicals.


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## Tha Bizness (Aug 14, 2011)

Termato said:


> It is over stocked with fish.
> .


That would be first guess. Because its over stocked the waste your fish are producing is to much for the system to handle. The fact that your adding Ammonia Remover kinda confirms this. Do you have a test kit to confirm that you have to much ammonia? Did this tank complete a cycle? How long has it been setup?

I'll let the experts chime in but be prepared to be told your way overstocked.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I know the tank is overstocked, although I don't want to get rid of any of the fish (what would i do with them... I could possibly give two of the platys to a friend of mine who has a tank, he has a 10 gallon tank with 2 tetras in it)

The tank has been set up for 3 weeks to a month I think so it has not completed the full cycle. We have already had to change the filter and clean the tank twice. I have a PH and Ammonia reader on the inside of the tank (it's a constant reader).

Would you recommend another water filter?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Another filter isn't going to do much except push the fish around more. You could try live plants, but being overstocked is your main reason for a dirty tank. Another option would be to get a second tank and put some fish in that one. Additional water changes could help, too. But really until your stocking levels come down you are always going to have trouble.

What type of "algae eater" do you have? Also if you aren't attached to the mystery snails you could easily take those out because they have a huge bioload and are probably major contributors to the waste problem.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, how would the live plants help?

I am highly considering donating 2 platys to a friend just to free some space up for now.

We have two Otocinclus. One big female and one male. I think the other two are Albino Cyprinids & Characins but I am not sure. My girlfriend thinks both pair are Otocinclus. (They said Golden Algae Eaters at the Super Pet where we got them) I know its not the chinese one because they don't get that big.

We are not too attached to the snails, we have already had two die....they don't seem to be doing very well in the tank.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Live plants (especially fast-growing ones) take up ammonia faster than bacteria. But they don't eliminate the need for water changes as there are hormones that fish produce that aren't used by the plants. 

If you're going to give away any plays, give away all the females. If you just give away one or two and there is one remaining in the tank, all the males will harass her. Platys are livebearers and as long as you have males and females in the same tank, they will be making babies and increasing the bioload on your tank. If you don't want babies the best thing is to keep all males. 

The snails are the first thing I would get rid of. They don't do much for algae cleanup (you can do a better job with an algae scrubber) and they produce a lot of waste. Unless you love the look of a snail, there is no reason to have a mystery snail in a tank. 

If you are unsure of the algae eater species, you could post a picture, and someone could ID it.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I will go out on a limb and say that the algae eaters that bred are not Ottos... since they've never bred in captivity.

Plants absorb ammonia and turn it into growth... So they might help.
Try giving away some fish on craigslist... or selling them even.

In a 10 gallon tank, 4 mollies, the ottos, and the snails would be a perfect stocking level. 
Please post pictures of your 'algae eaters'.

Have you tried increasing water changes? vaccuuming the gravel isn't everything... replace at least half the water every week when you vacuum.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

You all are really helpful!

I will post a picture of the tank and fish to ID and get more details.(I can take some pictures in about 2 hours when I make it home).

As for the snails they can absolutely go.

------

I have changed about 1/3 to half the water when I vacuum. I am going to clean the tank again today because it's over the top.


It seems the most likely path of action is going to be getting rid of the two mystery snails, giving away two platys, changing the water out and eventually (hopefully later in the week) get some real plants in the tank.

Do I just put the plants in there or is there anything I need to do beforehand? (any plant recommendations?)


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I just got home and the pregnant algae eater who we thought was the female Oto is dead.

I am using Seachem's AlertSeries Ammonia Alert and PH Alert.

I am taking pictures now. I will edit this post with the pictures on here.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your dead fish. My thoughts are when I have a dead fish I do a huge water change. I tend to go 70-75% and I use PRIME water conditioner. I have not lost many fish at all so... I think that the key to success is generally clean water and I would rather err on the side of caution and do a water change then to not. It isn't going to hurt. 

I also recommend that you purchase (if you don't already have one) an API master test kit for the fresh water aquarium and test your tap water separately and then your tank water at least weekly if not 2 times a week to keep an eye on your water parameters. If it were me, I would get rid of the female fish especially the live bearers as they can over populate a tank in no time at all and you are already pushing the limits. 

Can't wait to see pictures.


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## Davefish24 (Feb 18, 2011)

Try selling some baby mollies


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

*Should I take the fish out before cleaning the tank?*

Both of my snails are curled up in their shells. I have to keep them until I can give them away. (unless they die  )

Pictures coming soon, I took before cleaning pictures and I am going to clean the tank and then post all the pictures! :-D

-----------------------

I took both snails out for cleaning because they were at the bottom.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Termato said:


> *Should I take the fish out before cleaning the tank?*
> 
> Both of my snails are curled up in their shells. I have to keep them until I can give them away. (unless they die  )
> 
> ...



You know... Nobody stated the obvious OTHER solution to your problem which I will do now. You could buy another tank and divide the fish and plants up to spread the wealth.  Sorry but I am a helpless enabler so I tend to lean toward the need for more fish tanks. ha ha


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

> You know... Nobody stated the obvious OTHER solution to your problem which I will do now. You could buy another tank and divide the fish and plants up to spread the wealth. Sorry but I am a helpless enabler so I tend to lean toward the need for more fish tanks. ha ha


I just took some readings with the API Master Test Kit you suggested and these were the results:

Ammonia: 8.0ppm
PH: 7.5
Nitrate: 20-25ppm
Nitrite: .50ppm

This is after I did the water change. Should I just do another water change right now?!


While I was cleaning I found about....5 baby algae eaters from the dead mother.

* As much as I would love to get another tank it will have to wait at least a few months.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Davefish24 said:


> Try selling some baby mollies


haha I would but I don't even know if the babies I have now are mollies. Further more I need to get babies first  then everyone I know will have fishies!!


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

if your Ammonia is 8ppm I am surprised anything is still alive. By all means do water changes till the Ammonia drops to<2ppm and preferably to <1. What are you using for a filter? I have a 10g with 15 1 inch Ruby Peacock fry. Overstocking is not as much of a problem as under-filtration and over feeding.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

mrbprint said:


> if your Ammonia is 8ppm I am surprised anything is still alive. By all means do water changes till the Ammonia drops to<2ppm and preferably to <1. What are you using for a filter? I have a 10g with 15 1 inch Ruby Peacock fry. Overstocking is not as much of a problem as under-filtration and over feeding.


I have a Whisper 10i In-Tank Power Aquarium Filters from Tetra. I have been overfeeding. About 3 times a day.

What about the Nitrate and Nitrite levels.

Everything is still swimming happily....somehow....

*I waited about an hour and a half and I am going to do another water change and change the filter.*


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## Adamson (Feb 5, 2012)

That ammonia is extremely high.

While your tank is cycling (which it is), especially with fish in the tank, you need to be doing water changes every other day, especially with a smaller tank like that.

But yes, as mrb just said, what kind of filter do you have? Please tell me you have a filter..

To combat the ammonia, clean the tank more, make sure you have the filter going, if you have the supplies and motivation you could make an additional filter like the one in this video..


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## Adamson (Feb 5, 2012)

Termato said:


> I have a Whisper 10i In-Tank Power Aquarium Filters from Tetra. I have been overfeeding. About 3 times a day.
> 
> What about the Nitrate and Nitrite levels.
> 
> ...


Read this article top to bottom. You have no idea how much it will help you.
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

Yes, feed at the most once a day, I normally feed them every other day.. Also, remove any food that hasn't been eaten after a few minutes, as it will turn to waste and build up the ammonia levels.

I am no chemist, but basically it is a process. The Ammonia will turn to Nitrate (another harmful chemical) which will eventually turn to Nitrite, which is not good, but not as bad as Nitrate or Ammonia. Read the article I posted and you will get a good, detailed answer about this.


Edit: I just saw your aquarium and the descirption of it on your profile, you say that the temperature is "72 degrees in the morning 
79 degrees right before bed"
Not okay, you need to have a more stable temperature then that.. you have a heater right..?


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Ammonia - *NITRITE - Nitrate.


Ammonia and Nitrite are dangerous / lethal to fish in quantity except zero*
Aim to keep Nitrates below 20ppn.*

8ppm USUALLY would lead to dead fish quick...water changes and lots of them!
You have a high temperature swing there that will be causing stress to the fish.
*


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I have completed the second water change at about 30%. (the temperature has not changed much)

I cleaned the entire filter and changed the filter.

I also added a double dose of ammonia remover.


I am going to wait about 20-30 more minutes before I take another reading.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Adamson said:


> Read this article top to bottom. You have no idea how much it will help you.
> http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/
> 
> Yes, feed at the most once a day, I normally feed them every other day.. Also, remove any food that hasn't been eaten after a few minutes, as it will turn to waste and build up the ammonia levels.
> ...


I read that earlier but was not able to do anything until I got home. Let's just say I got a lot of work to do before this tank is stable.


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## Adamson (Feb 5, 2012)

Stop cleaning your filter! You need to let biology do its thing and let the good forms of bacteria grown on your filter in order for it to start killing the ammonia..


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Changing the filter is going to restart the cycle! The good bacteria will be present in the greatest amounts in the filter.
*DO NOT CLEAN THE FILTER*

You need to be doing water changes every day, every other day is NOT an option, if you want things to survive then every day is a MUST.

Look at getting some fast growing plants and that will help you no end in the cycle, the plants will remove the ammonia and nitrates.

You need a heater if you do not have one already as the temperature swings will only stress the fish and weaken their immune systems.

8ppm of ammonia, is likely to have caused irreversible damage to the fish already, which will reduce their life span.


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

That tetra filter is primarily a mechanical filter designed to clean debris. I has only a minimal biological impact. Pick up a sponge filter. They have far more surface area for the bacteria than your Tetra and they are nearly maintenance free. All of my tanks are technically overstocked but I run a lot of biological filtration and some mechanical if necessary and my Ammonia rarely exceeds .25ppm. I like the sponge filters that use the twin sponges, they are inexpensive, not to obtrusive in the tank and work very well. They come in 2 sizes and the larger one is what I use in my 10g and 2 of them in my 20g. In the mean time keep doing water changes, water changes, water changes.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

So I need to get a sponge filter. Do they have external sponge filters? I will have to look.

I removed one of the snails. I am keeping one of them unless it becomes too much of an issue.

Thanks to all of you for the advice. I will post the next ammonia reading in a second.

*Where do you all take your sample for the water from? The top? The filter? The bottom?*


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Do you have a petco or Petsmart near your house? If so, check out their live plants. Look for some super easy, fast growing plants like Water sprite which can just float on top of the water but will use up a lot of the Ammonia, Nitrates etc... Other easy plant for a small aquarium would be Pennywort, Java Moss, Java Fern, Even a Moss ball would help right now. A heavily planted tank will reduce any negative effects of the "cycle" process. 

At this point, I think that would be your best bet in conjunction with the regular water changes. Also, test your source water and get a good water conditioner like Prime. Good job for being proactive for the health of your fish. You will get this all sorted out. It seems impossible in the beginning but it will get easier.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Inga said:


> Do you have a petco or Petsmart near your house? If so, check out their live plants. Look for some super easy, fast growing plants like Water sprite which can just float on top of the water but will use up a lot of the Ammonia, Nitrates etc... Other easy plant for a small aquarium would be Pennywort, Java Moss, Java Fern, Even a Moss ball would help right now. A heavily planted tank will reduce any negative effects of the "cycle" process.
> 
> At this point, I think that would be your best bet in conjunction with the regular water changes. Also, test your source water and get a good water conditioner like Prime. Good job for being proactive for the health of your fish. You will get this all sorted out. It seems impossible in the beginning but it will get easier.


I can only go to the pet store tomorrow because they are closed now :-( I almost wish Walmart sold that kind of stuff hahaha.

I just took another Ammonia reading

Ammonia Level: 4.0ppm

*So it got cut in half.....I am going to probably do one more water change tonight (Should I wait a certain amount of time!?) The temp hasnt changed at ALL.*

Also I cannot find Prime at Super Pet. I will try Pet Smart.

*Where do you all take your sample for the water from? The top? The filter? The bottom?*


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

PM me with your address. Ill send you some Hornwort to help suck up the ammonia. No you dont have to wait to change more water as long as temp and PH the same.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

mrbprint said:


> PM me with your address. Ill send you some Hornwort to help suck up the ammonia.


If you feel it necessary. I can go to the store tomorrow before your package would arrive. I really appreciate the offer though.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

If you already did a large water change, I wouldn't do another tonight. I think this will stress the fish and they will create MORE ammonia. If they are swimming and breathing alright, then be done for tonight. Tomorrow morning you can check your levels again, do another 50% water change and then get to the store for the plants (if you can) and I highly recommend PRIME water conditioner. If your Petsmart is anything like the one here, they will have it. They should also have some plants for you to get started. Get enough to suck up some of that Ammonia. Whatever you do, do NOT add anymore fish.


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

It is up to you. You should have the package Thurs, Fri at the latest for free. I put some Hornwort, Java Fern, Java moss and water sprite in a box and have on its way in the AM. From here in NY to MD is usually over nite, 2 day max.


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

mrbprint said:


> It is up to you. You should have the package Thurs, Fri at the latest for free. I put some Hornwort, Java Fern, Java moss and water sprite in a box and have on its way in the AM. From here in NY to MD is usually over nite, 2 day max.


It WILL help you an awful lot!

That is very kind of you to offer that. :thumbsup:


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

mrbprint said:


> It is up to you. You should have the package Thurs, Fri at the latest for free. I put some Hornwort, Java Fern, Java moss and water sprite in a box and have on its way in the AM. From here in NY to MD is usually over nite, 2 day max.


Wow man, where do you keep all of that? I'll pm you.

The clarity of the water is better. The fish are swimming like champs. Only one fish (a golden mollie) is hidding inside the pineapple house.

I cant see any of the babies yet because their hiding.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

That is an awesome offer. If you are concerned about the water prior to that get one plant but honestly if you do a 50% water change and use the Prime in there until the plants come, that should be fine. Hornwort and Water sprite are awesome at using up the Ammonia and Nitrites. I would plant the Water Sprite and float the Hornwort.
Java Fern and Moss you can use a little black thread and tie them onto the decor, rock or wood. Excellent solution, you can't get better then free.


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

I have so much hornwort I have been giving it away for shipping but I still flush a lot of it, I noticed a number of Java Fern sprouts stuck to my HOB filter pick up and the wisteria has carpeted the bottom of my 40b in spots. My 40b is an absolute jungle LOL So if I can help someone out I will.


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## JImi (Jul 19, 2011)

If this doesnt get any better take out what fish you have, ask your fish store to look after them for a while and start your tank again. 

Read up on cycling and how many fish you can keep per size of tank and take it slow. 

Just my two pence worth. 

Jimi


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

OK Victor, The plants are on their way. I have included Hornwort, Java Fern, Wisteria and Java Moss. I also included 4 or 5 EXTRAS for you to figure out. One will make a nice center piece for your tank, one will provide great Ammonia sponge and cover for babies along with the moss and Hornwort. I also included something that is considered Good Luck in Japanese culture. Oh and I even included another goody to fasten the fern to.

I would just keep up with water changes, get a biological sponge filter going(It can be hidden with the plants) and put the plants in. THEN just let it ride. Do water changes enough to keep Ammonia to 0-1ppm and in a while everything will settle. Constant tinkeritis usually keeps things from settling. All I ask is remember someone else in your shoes in the future.

GOOD LUCK Estimated arrival is Fri of the plants. I will PM you the tracking # later. Tony


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

This is what I like about forums with genuinely good people.

While it is very easy to sit here and critique about others people tanks etc, actually being helpful with what you have done is above and beyond.

Termato - Best of luck and with the advise on here, this tank will be sorting itself out in no time.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

mrbprint said:


> OK Victor, The plants are on their way. I have included Hornwort, Java Fern, Wisteria and Java Moss. I also included 4 or 5 EXTRAS for you to figure out. One will make a nice center piece for your tank, one will provide great Ammonia sponge and cover for babies along with the moss and Hornwort. I also included something that is considered Good Luck in Japanese culture. Oh and I even included another goody to fasten the fern to.
> 
> I would just keep up with water changes, get a biological sponge filter going(It can be hidden with the plants) and put the plants in. THEN just let it ride. Do water changes enough to keep Ammonia to 0-1ppm and in a while everything will settle. Constant tinkeritis usually keeps things from settling. All I ask is remember someone else in your shoes in the future.
> 
> GOOD LUCK Estimated arrival is Fri of the plants. I will PM you the tracking # later. Tony


Nicely done.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

JImi said:


> If this doesnt get any better take out what fish you have, ask your fish store to look after them for a while and start your tank again.
> 
> Read up on cycling and how many fish you can keep per size of tank and take it slow.
> 
> ...


I really hope it wont come to that.




mrbprint said:


> OK Victor, The plants are on their way. I have included Hornwort, Java Fern, Wisteria and Java Moss. I also included 4 or 5 EXTRAS for you to figure out. One will make a nice center piece for your tank, one will provide great Ammonia sponge and cover for babies along with the moss and Hornwort. I also included something that is considered Good Luck in Japanese culture. Oh and I even included another goody to fasten the fern to.
> 
> I would just keep up with water changes, get a biological sponge filter going(It can be hidden with the plants) and put the plants in. THEN just let it ride. Do water changes enough to keep Ammonia to 0-1ppm and in a while everything will settle. Constant tinkeritis usually keeps things from settling. All I ask is remember someone else in your shoes in the future.
> 
> GOOD LUCK Estimated arrival is Fri of the plants. I will PM you the tracking # later. Tony


You are just awesome man. I can't thank you enough. Ill post up some results when I get home from work about the new water filter and the ammonia results after the water change.





Tazman said:


> This is what I like about forums with genuinely good people.
> 
> While it is very easy to sit here and critique about others people tanks etc, actually being helpful with what you have done is above and beyond.
> 
> Termato - Best of luck and with the advise on here, this tank will be sorting itself out in no time.


I agree and I just joined the forum. Thank you!


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

It wouldn't let me edit the post above.

I just changed the water and vacuumed. I bought a Hornwort to help out until the other plants get here. I also got Prime conditioner (they had it )

*Ammonia Level: 1.5ppm (Somehow.....Go water change...)
Nitrite Level: 0ppm (YES)
Nitrate Level: It looked between 40ppm and 80ppm so I say 60ppm (wasnt as dark as 80 but darker than 40)
PH Level: 7.5*

So My Nitrite is all gone!
My ammonia is down to safer levels!

but my nitrate is almost off the charts......?


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

I am so glad that you did that water change, that it made a difference, that you got Pirme and even the hornwort. That should certainly help a lot. 

Your numbers are still a mystery and I cannot help but wonder if the test you are using is not being mixed enough? The Regent 2 Nitrate has to be vigorously shaken for a good 2 minutes to be accurate. Also when testing, make sure the test water is right to the line on the tubes and that when you are adding the solutions you hold the bottles straight up and down so that the drop size is uniform. 

Remember that with Prime, the Ammonia is turned into Ammonium which is less dangerous to the fish. The plants will help a ton. Now just don't let the numbers of fish increase. I still suggest getting rid of the females that you can.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Inga said:


> I am so glad that you did that water change, that it made a difference, that you got Pirme and even the hornwort. That should certainly help a lot.
> 
> Your numbers are still a mystery and I cannot help but wonder if the test you are using is not being mixed enough? The Regent 2 Nitrate has to be vigorously shaken for a good 2 minutes to be accurate. Also when testing, make sure the test water is right to the line on the tubes and that when you are adding the solutions you hold the bottles straight up and down so that the drop size is uniform.
> 
> Remember that with Prime, the Ammonia is turned into Ammonium which is less dangerous to the fish. The plants will help a ton. Now just don't let the numbers of fish increase. I still suggest getting rid of the females that you can.


Yea i read those instructions. I am shaking the living entity out of that bottle and test tube.

I am doing a double test on both the tap and aquarium water for Nitrate again.


There are babies in my tank...i can't find them all. I am trying to get rid of 2 platys right now.


I am using API Master Test Kit.


-----------------------

Okay i need help on this one.

I am following the tests direction to the brim.

*5ml of clean water to be tested.
10 drops of nitrate bottle #1
shake bottle #2 vigorously hard for 2 minutes (I shook that thing HARD)
10 drops of nitrate bottle #2
Shake test tube vigorously hard (I shook it so hard water came out ...just a little but I shook it HARD)

even my tap water is reading HIGHLY possitive for nitrate.....*


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

Do you have city water? If so call the water dept tomorrow and ask about the nitrate level. It is unusual but possible that some kind of contamination has occurred. Also take a sample of both tank and tap water to the LFS and have them check just to be sure. If I remember right your Nitrate was well within acceptable limits, and should be dropping with the water changes, even if the tank has begun to cycle. If your tap water has high nitrate levels then that would account for the spike. I would worry less about the Nitrate for now and concentrate on Ammonia and Nitrite. If they are low let things ride.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

mrbprint said:


> Do you have city water? If so call the water dept tomorrow and ask about the nitrate level. It is unusual but possible that some kind of contamination has occurred. Also take a sample of both tank and tap water to the LFS and have them check just to be sure. If I remember right your Nitrate was well within acceptable limits, and should be dropping with the water changes, even if the tank has begun to cycle. If your tap water has high nitrate levels then that would account for the spike. I would worry less about the Nitrate for now and concentrate on Ammonia and Nitrite. If they are low let things ride.


Nitrite is 0ppm and Ammonia is around 1.5ppm

I will call the water dept for the city tomorrow along with finding some info on getting these samples well tested.


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

Just let things ride. Something is flukey in that Nitrate is not something that spikes. It is usually a slow progression of the breakdown of Ammonia- Nitrite-Nitrate. If I understand the tests right the Ammonia test is a indication of all forms of it so the high Nitrate may be contributing to the elevated Ammonia. Your fish will be the best indicator of problems. If they seem happy things are good.

The plants are not an overnite cure and will take a few days to see results but will even things out. Also light will affect how well the plants grow and utilize Ammonia. I am running 2 15W daylight(6500K) compact fluorescent bulbs on my 10g and I see pearling the tiny bubbles of Oxygen they produce from the Hornwort. All the plants I sent are considered low light but I have found they do better in higher light. It will be an experiment to see what combination works best for you to maximize growth and minimize algae. That is why I like the old fashioned incandescent fixtures because the options are limitless and cheap using the new CF bulbs.

Relax you are doing everything right. New tanks coupled with inexperience is always a roller coaster ride. I am no stranger to aquariums in that I had 10g all the way to a 300g set up and running 30 yr ago then got out of the hobby. My re-entry a year ago resulted in similar results as you are having for the first few months. Believe me when I say things will settle down and you will begin to understand how things work. It WILL get easier. If you can get a 10g working then you will have no problem with a 40,50, 100 or a 500gallon. The small tanks are the worst in that there is no room for error and happen QUICKLY. Larger tanks have greater buffering and problems occur slower. Good Luck and RELAX


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

mrbprint said:


> Just let things ride. Something is flukey in that Nitrate is not something that spikes. It is usually a slow progression of the breakdown of Ammonia- Nitrite-Nitrate. If I understand the tests right the Ammonia test is a indication of all forms of it so the high Nitrate may be contributing to the elevated Ammonia. Your fish will be the best indicator of problems. If they seem happy things are good.
> 
> The plants are not an overnite cure and will take a few days to see results but will even things out. Also light will affect how well the plants grow and utilize Ammonia. I am running 2 15W daylight(6500K) compact fluorescent bulbs on my 10g and I see pearling the tiny bubbles of Oxygen they produce from the Hornwort. All the plants I sent are considered low light but I have found they do better in higher light. It will be an experiment to see what combination works best for you to maximize growth and minimize algae. That is why I like the old fashioned incandescent fixtures because the options are limitless and cheap using the new CF bulbs.
> 
> Relax you are doing everything right. New tanks coupled with inexperience is always a roller coaster ride. I am no stranger to aquariums in that I had 10g all the way to a 300g set up and running 30 yr ago then got out of the hobby. My re-entry a year ago resulted in similar results as you are having for the first few months. Believe me when I say things will settle down and you will begin to understand how things work. It WILL get easier. If you can get a 10g working then you will have no problem with a 40,50, 100 or a 500gallon. The small tanks are the worst in that there is no room for error and happen QUICKLY. Larger tanks have greater buffering and problems occur slower. Good Luck and RELAX


You make my day brighter sir. The fish seem to be swimming like champs and aren't hiding. Only one of them that was stressed out from the water changes was hiding for an hour or two. He is not swimming happily. The water is clear and all other levels are fine except Nitrate.

I am going to take your advice and let things ride. I am going to check the water parameters tomorrow after another water change.


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

If your tap water is still high Nitrate Dont bother unless Ammonia spikes. Tinkeritis will get you every time LOL Many times LESS is MORE


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

mrbprint said:


> If your tap water is still high Nitrate Dont bother unless Ammonia spikes. Tinkeritis will get you every time LOL Many times LESS is MORE


What wonderful advice. ok.

I am definitely going to try and get those samples tested by someone who can for certain say yea it is high nitrate (I followed directions from the box and from Inga and got the same results).


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I have ID'ed some fish while in the Chat room tonight using members help:

2 Black Mollies (one 3inch male, one 2inch female) 
2 Yellow Mollies (both males 3inch) 
2 red/black Platys (both females 2inch) 
2 Serpae Tetra (don't know sex 1inch and 1.5inch) 
1 1inch otto 
2 CAE 2 inches 
1 Black Mystery Snails Medium 
I don't know how many babies from who

Read more: Your Aquariums in the Aquarium Log

Here are some pictures:










































I have more pictures (especially of the clean tank) but my internet is being slow.


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## magpie (Nov 7, 2011)

Wow, good work getting the ammonia situation worked out... hopefully it will continue. 

Not sure if anyone let you know in chat, but your tank is far too small for the Chinese Algae Eaters and the Serpae Tetras.  The otos also are happiest with buddies (as in 6 of them), and I don't think you have room for them, either. They also really thrive with live plants and very clean water. 

Hopefully the plants coming will help you out, too. How generous and helpful of Mrbprint!


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

magpie said:


> Wow, good work getting the ammonia situation worked out... hopefully it will continue.
> 
> Not sure if anyone let you know in chat, but your tank is far too small for the Chinese Algae Eaters and the Serpae Tetras.  The otos also are happiest with buddies (as in 6 of them), and I don't think you have room for them, either. They also really thrive with live plants and very clean water.
> 
> Hopefully the plants coming will help you out, too. How generous and helpful of Mrbprint!


I agree Mrbprint is a life savior.

I am getting rid of the CAE's. Returning them and maybe exchanging for 2 more ottos to give my guy company.

I found someone to give the tetras away too so they will only be in my tank for another day.

I am going to contact the city about the water today. (super high (compared to normal) nitrate levels 60-80ppm or higher)

After I get all that done then I will make more considerations on which fish to give away and stuff.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I just called the Salisbury water department

They say they are getting Nitrate readings of 4.8ppm MAX in their water. The water center near me is getting a bit higher of 6.8ppm. I specified my location and the guy specified he is at the plant and just did a reading.

He suggested there might be something contaminating the water in my plumbing. He suggested taking something from the faucet and using that water so it doesn't go through some filter (I forgot the terms..I will have to do more research when I get home).

Any suggestions?


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## mrbprint (Sep 2, 2011)

No clue except to check to see if there is a filter in your system that could be contaminated. For now though concentrate on Ammonia.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

mrbprint said:


> No clue except to check to see if there is a filter in your system that could be contaminated. For now though concentrate on Ammonia.


Inga pointed out that the solution i was using could be kld. I checked the date and its from 2008. Im going to return it and get a new test kit.


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## DysontheLoach (Nov 3, 2011)

Termato said:


> I have a 10 gallon Fresh Water Tropical tank set up.
> 
> It is over stocked with fish.
> 
> ...


My advice, get another tank and separate your livings. it will help. 10 gallons for all those fish is too small.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

DysontheLoach said:


> My advice, get another tank and separate your livings. it will help. 10 gallons for all those fish is too small.


I just returned the 2 CAE's. THey wouldn't trade me or return my money.

I am giving away the two serpae tetra.

This is my tank after i get rid of the Serpaw Tetra tomorrow:

2 Black Mollies (one 3inch male, one 2inch female)
2 Yellow Mollies (both males 3inch)
2 red/black Platys (both females 2inch)
1 1inch otto (I want to get 2 more ottos)

I don't know how many babies from who. 

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/fishtanks.php#show4892#ixzz1nFYZbou1


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## DysontheLoach (Nov 3, 2011)

I use the one inch per gallon rule, its not for everybody since people have proven otherwise, but it works for me. And my fish are all happy and the tank is very clean. i do about 20-25 % water change every week and about every 2 months i do 70%. My research of writng and finding info about fish and asking questions every weekend at various pet stores, has really helped me. i do know that, otos do need alot of room to swim. even tho they are small. Ghost shrimp are good to have because they eat leftovers. I have 2 and even tho my goldies dont leave anything behind they seem to always be getting food and cleaning somehow. Good luck to ya


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

DysontheLoach said:


> I use the one inch per gallon rule, its not for everybody since people have proven otherwise, but it works for me. And my fish are all happy and the tank is very clean. i do about 20-25 % water change every week and about every 2 months i do 70%. My research of writng and finding info about fish and asking questions every weekend at various pet stores, has really helped me. i do know that, otos do need alot of room to swim. even tho they are small. Ghost shrimp are good to have because they eat leftovers. I have 2 and even tho my goldies dont leave anything behind they seem to always be getting food and cleaning somehow. Good luck to ya


Thanks for the advice. I like shrimp. I might consider a pair...although I am fond of the ottos though hahah.

Also already catching a case of multi tank syndrome and already looking for more tanks AHHAHAH.....


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## DysontheLoach (Nov 3, 2011)

haha, ya my ghost shrimp cost me 2 buks for both of them. i want like 20 more lol. their really interesting! Ya i started with a 5 gallon and now, just look at my signature! its crazy. lol and i love my little oto, they love currents also.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

DysontheLoach said:


> haha, ya my ghost shrimp cost me 2 buks for both of them. i want like 20 more lol. their really interesting! Ya i started with a 5 gallon and now, just look at my signature! its crazy. lol and i love my little oto, they love currents also.


a dollar each!! Their 33 cents a piece at PetSmart here.

I hope he is just molting. I just posted up a new video and pictures of my tank.

Nice set up man. I want a good big tank once I settle into a place that Im not gonna move for a while.

----

I was wondering if you all could tell me if Gouramis are compatible with Mollies?

Also....are three male mollies set to be by themselves? 2 different species of mollies.

Right now they are all fighting over one female. Once the 29G is set up I can move them.


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