# Oranda acting very off



## boardy (Sep 25, 2007)

Hi,

I've only had my fish about a week and a half and the aquarium they are in about 3 days.

The aquarium has the following levels - Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, Ammonia 0 - 0.25, Ph 7.5 set using Ph PROPER 7.5. It's a 60L (16 US Gallons) tank with a natural daylight tube in the hood. I have 3 live plants, an Airo 1, and a diffuser tube in the tank. The filter is an Elite Stingray 15 and has Zeolite and Carbon media in as well as the standard filter foam.

One of my Oranda which was the most energetic in the tank has suddenly stopped swimming around the tank, eating, and now hides no matter what time of the day behind the plants near the filter. There doesn't appear to be any illness that I can visibly see on the fish, it did seem to be swimming on one side, but seems to have stopped that now. When it does swim now it can get to the top of the tank but then seems to go completely rigid and just float with the flow caused by the aeration and filter for up to 5 minutes.

I'm really worried about this fish as it's a really nice looking fish and possibly my favorite in the tank.

Please help someone.

Cheers
Adam


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

Look up swim bladder disease as I think this might be the problem. There is a sticky that Lupin created at the top of this section with a lot of good info on the disease.

Once you've read this sticky you'll betteer be able to decide if you think this is the problem. The treatment for this disease is also recommended and explained in this sticky.

HTH


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## JouteiMike (Oct 7, 2006)

Does the fish appear bloated?
Raised scales?
Appetite change?

How big is the tank and what else do you have in it? Your results show that you could have ammonia present in your water, which is bad. Did you use test strips or a liquid test kit. Liquid is a lot more accurate.

A few things to try and help out the Goldie... Deshelled cooked peas tend to help with constipation. Epsom salt is used to expel excess gas and reduce swelling of dropsy symptoms...which would be the worse case scenario.

I recently lost a Oranda to dropsy...it was my favorite as well and I know how tough it can be.


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## boardy (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks for the replies 

I did think it could be swim bladder, I'll have to try some of the treatments for that.

The fish isn't bloated, no raised scales, the only thing that's different is that he isn't really eating as much at all. He ate a flake or two last night but that's about it.

The tank is a 60l about 60cm wide and 30cm deep. It contains 3 Oranda's and 3 live plants at the moment.

I used an API Master Test Kit which is liquid for testing the water, I did try the test stick things, but they were in all honesty as usefull as a chocolate fire guard.

The pea thing I have seen all over the net. What is the correct way of doing this as some places say frozen, some say thawed but not cooked, and some say cooked. It's so confusing when everywhere you look it says the same treatment but slightly different.

Thanks
Adam


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## JouteiMike (Oct 7, 2006)

Your tank is way too small for goldies...I hope you plan on getting a much bigger tank if you want your goldies to live a long healthy life. How often to you perform water changes...I must image you do it quite often.

Check the appearance of its feces...should be a similar color to what it eats. If it's white and stringy, it could be an internal bacterial infection. Which would definitely make the fish loose its appetite. 

For the peas...cooked..steamed..thawed..you just want it to be soft and mushy. And all you need is the inside of the pea, not the outer shell...as the goldfish will have trouble digesting that.


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## boardy (Sep 25, 2007)

JouteiMike I read up on the tank size and various websites all agreed on that 15 Gallon should be plenty for up to 5 Oranda's which is why I chose this tank. I do have a much smaller tank in the kitchen for a hospital tank but there is currently nothing but a plant in that at the moment.

When I got up this morning the fish that was looking a little off has perked up somewhat. He's now swimming fine and exploring the new tank. He is still not eating but I'm hoping that will sort itself out in time.

I did buy some API Ammo Lock today along with an air stone, and 2 more plants. The aquarium looks much better now in my opinion and doesn't look so bare. Is there anything I should be aware of with live plants in the tank? I was told and have been led to believe by a few sites that you just put them in and leave them alone, is this true or is there something more I need to do with them?

Thanks for all the help 

Adam


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## boardy (Sep 25, 2007)

I forgot to mention, I do a 10% water change once a week. I used to do about 3-4 a week in the old small tank, so far only done one in this new one.

Adam


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## JouteiMike (Oct 7, 2006)

You can't always believe websites...and a 15 gallon tank isn't even good to house 1 Oranda in, unless it is temporary. 

Goldfish need a lot of room for two main reasons, and a few others. The two main reasons are that they are extremely messy (they pollute the water rather quickly), and that they grow very rapidly. Your fish may seem small, and they have enough room..but within a year they will grow several inches. Goldfish can live 10+ years if taken care of properly...but honestly...keeping 5 of them in a 15 gallon tank I don't see them living for more than a year. The general rule of thumb in stocking are either one inch of fish per 12 square inches of water surface, or one inch of fish for each gallon. Each of those should be the absolute bare minimum.

The absolute minimum amount of water for each goldfish is 10 gallons (I like to think more 20)...and looking back at your tank...you have 3 gallons for each.

I keep 2 fancy goldfish in a 75 gallon, my Fan tail is about 6.5" and my Black Moore is about 5".

This is just the way it works in the world of fishkeeping...bigger, messier fish need more room, or else they will suffer and live a short life. I don't want to sound harsh, but it's best to provide your fish the best possible habitat.

Hope it all works out for you.


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## boardy (Sep 25, 2007)

JouteiMike thanks for the advice. I understand that the tank could be too small for the Oranda's. Do you have any recommendations on what fish to keep in the tank. I want to get tropical but at the same time I want a few of them and maybe different types.

The fish that was ill has now been moved to the hospital tank for watching, it's not looking good but I have put various medicines in the water in both tanks to be sure. It looked like an outbreak of Ich from a new fish that had just been introduced to the tank. Strange it looked fine for the 5 days it was in quarantine.

If I get new tropical fish will I have to recycle the water for them?

Cheers for all the help, much appreciated.

Adam


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

boardy said:


> JouteiMike thanks for the advice. I understand that the tank could be too small for the Oranda's. Do you have any recommendations on what fish to keep in the tank. I want to get tropical but at the same time I want a few of them and maybe different types.


A 15 gallons should allow a large group of 20 ember tetras and about 6-8 small species of corydoras. Panda corydoras are my favorites but they are best introduced only in the later stages of the tank, preferably 4 months. The longer, the better.


> The fish that was ill has now been moved to the hospital tank for watching, it's not looking good but I have put various medicines in the water in both tanks to be sure.


What medicines did you put in the tank? Did you really mix all the meds? This is not advisable as they may cause adverse effects on the health of the fish. It is not recommended to keep dosing medicines unless you know what exactly is happening. Stick with one medicine and remove the mixed medications with carbon placed in the filter.


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## boardy (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks lupin I may look into Tetras. I like the look of those and the old classic Neon Tetra, we'll see what happens 



> What medicines did you put in the tank? Did you really mix all the meds? This is not advisable as they may cause adverse effects on the health of the fish. It is not recommended to keep dosing medicines unless you know what exactly is happening. Stick with one medicine and remove the mixed medications with carbon placed in the filter.


I used Interpret meds. The guy in the shop and on the box said they could be mixed with each other with no problem, but I added Anti Fungus and Finrot, Anti Slime and Velvet, Anti White Spot, and Swim Bladder Disease Treatment. The problems seem to have gone away in the main tank now after I raised the water temp to around 24c to speed up the cycle of the parasite.

I've put the Carbon and Zeolite media back into the filter now so that should clear up the water and get rid of the meds. I'll be doing a 25% - 50% water change later today just to be sure it's all gone.

Guess I jumped into this a bit too quick, read about 3 books and still mess up lol. Oh well, I'll get there.

Thanks for the help 

Adam


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