# Cycling stalled please help!!



## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi I'm new to fishkeeping and my tank just wont start to cycle I set up a 15 gallon aquarium 12 weeks ago added 4 fish 1 week later, I now only have one fish left, The water parameters are Ammonia 1.0 nitrites 0 nitrates 0 ph 7.6. Surely I should be getting nitrites by now!! Please help..


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

You must be doing water changes since your ammonia is only at 1.0ppm, right? How often and how much? What are you adding to your water to treat it? Did the other fish seem to die from ammonia poisoning (panting, red gills, lethargic, sitting on bottom)? What kind of filter do you have?


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

Filter is an interpet pf2 power filter, fish just started lying on bottom then swimming round in circles and died they did have red gills, started changing a little water this week about 15% to try and save the last fish , im treating the water with nutrafin tap water conditioner


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## flight50 (Sep 30, 2008)

If the last fish dies off, now would be a good time to do a fishless cycle. Spare the fish and save money at the same time. My 2 Cents.


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

How are you measuring your ammonia and nitrItes? Something just isn't adding up. If you haven't changed your water much, then the ammonia level should be much higher than 1.0ppm, especially if it killed all your fish. I really suggest getting an API master kit, they're only like $25 mail order. Test tubes are best, strips can be stale.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

A 12 week old tank with no nitrates seems like a serious problem, can you tell us everything you do to this tank, what is added, what is removed, what is cleaned, what type of test kit, do you have live plants, what is the exact name of the water conditioner, how old is it, etc?

As for now the best you can do for your fish is daily 50% water changes until we can get the ammonia to go down. Contrary to what some people say, large water changes will not harm the cycle process.


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

I have been using test strips to test water but have ordered an API master test kit I'm just waiting for it coming, I have no live plants just plastic ones, have changed about 15% of the water twice this week but before that didn't change anything as instructed by my local fish shop, I've been adding Bio live bacteria but it obviously isn't doing anything I feed them every other day I think that's it.


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## faronem (Jan 6, 2012)

I'd start with basic initial water quality.
Are you certain that you are using properly dechlorinated water?


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

I've been using the dechlorinater as it says on the bottle, how long should I wait between adding dechlorinater to water and adding water to the tank??


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## faronem (Jan 6, 2012)

Mark602 said:


> I've been using the dechlorinater as it says on the bottle, how long should I wait between adding dechlorinater to water and adding water to the tank??


If it's mixed together, 5-10 minutes ought to be adequate. For what it's worth, you should also avoid disrupting the substrate when you're pouring in the new water. Is it by chance very old?

By chance are you changing filter?


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

Only bought it last week! Never touched filter but I haven't been waiting very long between adding water conditioner then adding water to tank maybe couple of mins! I always try not to disturb the substrate or I get loads of crap floating around.


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## faronem (Jan 6, 2012)

Mark602 said:


> Only bought it last week!


Do you mean you've only be dechlorinating for the past week? 
Is the entirety of the tank dechlorinated?


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

Yeah the tank is dechlorinated it's a new bottle I only got a little bottle supplied with the tank which I used to fill the tank then top up as water evaporated, I only just started changing water this week hence the new bottle.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

Its alright to add you dechlorinator then add tap water a few minutes later, stop using the bacteria supplement for now. When you are doing top offs you are doing it with treated tap water correct? Invest in a gravel vacuum to help remove decaying organic matter in the gravel when you do water changes. Again ignore your LFS instructions since they have done so well for you so far and start doing daily 50% water changes until you get your ammonia down to about .25


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

Yeah always used treated water for top off's, I have a gravel vacuum but was told not to use it until tank has finished cycling, I did a 50% water change yesterday and will do the same again today, when I get my new test kit I will post the results and hopefully with a bit of help get it sorted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

I have my new test kit and the results are ammonia 2.0 nitrites 0 nitrates 0 ph 7.6 temp 26 degrees, I've just done a 50% water change after testing, It's 13 weeks this weekend and still nothing happening. I don't know what's wrong!!


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Exactly what brand dechlorinator are you using? How much are you adding? I can't understand how you wouldn't have nitrItes after this long. I let my daughters betta fish do a natural cycle (with weekly 50% water changes) just to see how long it would take and I was seeing nitrItes after about one week. The 10 gallon tank was cycled in approx. one month. It's like something is sterilizing your tank and killing all the bacteria. You already had real fish in there so there should have been plenty of "seed" bacteria to get things going. Is it possible that you forgot to dechlorinate at some point?


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

Strange indeed, I'm afraid at this point unless someone else comes in and has a great idea a completely start over might be necessary if you don't see nitrites or nitrates in a week or two. As afremont said give us the exact name of dechlorinator you are using and check for any expiration dates. Only other thing I can think of is to look up your water districts website and post it here so we can look over the quality report to see if anything is disturbing the cycle that way.

Besides that if I was in your shoes I would look for a complete start over, meaning find a temporary hold for your fish while you completely tank everything out of the tank (gravel, decor, heater, filter, everything) and clean it really good with tap water then let it dry and do the same with the tank. Then start completely fresh, add water, heater and filter and dechlornator. Then add fish back in but not any decor or gravel until the cycle starts (you see nitrites), just to eliminate those two from the possibilities of the problem. Don't add anything else besides what was listed, such as no bacteria supplement or any more fish. And hopefully you can start seeing some results.


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## excal88 (Apr 4, 2011)

Are you still using the nutra fin dechlorinator? the most recommended one is prime by seachem. I personally use ultimate, but that's me. As zof mentioned, try looking up your water district's info. By some off chance, it is possible that they added more chlorine to the water due to some issues, and that the amount of dechlorinator might not be enough. That's a long shot, but I saw that happen to a few friends. 

In terms of decorations, did you rinse off the plastic plants and gravel before adding them into the tank with hot water? Sometimes the plastic plants have some film or coating that leaks out into the tank if not properly washed and could be killing the bacteria. Same goes with the gravel. 

Hope some of this helps, best of luck to you!


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Hey Mark602. Sorry for your troubles.... please test your TAP water and tell us what the 3 readings are. Amm NI and NA. I have Ammonia of .25 straight out of the tap so for me to do water changes and expect any less would be silly. So know your tap water readings. 
Are you shaking the chemical bottles for the correct time limits. This is critical. Are you waiting the time liimits for each test... i.e. 5 min if required or forgetting and waiting too long and coming back a half hour later? Please re-read the test steps to make sure you have not missed anything. It is easy to do. 
Are you reading the tube colours against the card in DAY LIGHT... over by a window. Don't use lamp light or bright sunlight.
Are you matching the temperatures EXACTLY of the current tank water to the New De-chlorinated TAP water with every bucket load!!??
My understanding is that cycling can take up to 6-8 weeks... yes in 12 weeks you should have seen something by now but if you were not testing with the correct API kit at the time, you could have missed some readings that might have been there. 

Is it possible for you to post us a picture of your tubes and colour cards? 
I don't think you need to do a tear down... you must have some good bacteria in your tank. And you have been adding a bacteria suppliment... I've used them before, I don't any more as my tank is mature.
For dechlor I have switched to PRIME. Even tho it is a bit more expensive you use only a capfull for 50 gallons so it will go much farther than any other stuff. And you can start with a smaller bottle to cut costs. 
Don't worry about vacuuming the bottom yet. We don't want to do too many things to a tank EVER at one time. Work slowly... you are not dealing with huge ammonia issues right now so you have the luxury of taking your time.
Could you post a picture of your tank for us? 
Once settled you will not add more than 2-3 fish at any one time so the bacteria can catch up to the bio load. Unless they are really small and you are adding a school.
Hang in there... you will get thru this.


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

Ive been given some mature filter media and gravel from a mate ive added this to my tank if this doesn't work i think it may be time to start from scratch, I have noticed some weird white fungus stuff growing on my ornament this morning is this good or bad?? should i take it out and clean it??


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Hoping someone can jump in here regarding the white fungus as I have never experience it...(knock on wood). My sense is yes, pull the item and scrub it but it's likely on other items in the tank so it might come back again. 
I'm glad you managed to get some seed material from a trusted source. Hoping you still have 1 or 2 fish left to feed the bacteria. The output from fish needs to balance/match the good bacteria... in other words if you increase the bio load with more fish (slowly 1-2-3 at a time) the good bacteria grow to support it. If you have too much good bacteria and no fish left to feed it with waste materia, then some of the good bacteria in the tank dies off. 
Another point JICase,... rinsing any item in straight TAP water... the chlorine will kill any good bacteria on it. You did not rinse your seed material in tap water when you got it home did you? (just checking) 
So having said that... whenever you eventually clean filter pads, or are rinsing items that have been removed from your tank and re-introducing them (gravel or filter substrate), you must use a bucket of either old tank water, or new De-chlorinated water. A full clean of your filter with TAP water with chlorine will kill your good bacteria causing a mini cycle in an established tank. 

So depending on what others say about the fungus...and no tear down and scrub out is required, then I would say that later in the week you could get another 2 fish, then a week later another 2. That kind of thing. Take it slow and be alway consious of the chlorine factor, temperture matching, and proper fish introduction proceedures. Good luck.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

There are many species of fungus that can appear in an aquarium. Some, such as what appears on uneaten fish food after a day or two, is relatively harmless on its own; some types are highly toxic to fish. Usually these occur on real wood, but they may be introduced from other sources. I would remove any fungus you see.


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## gallid (Jan 19, 2012)

*I'm having the same problem as Mark602*

I have a 1.5 gallon desktop aquarium and it's been set up since December 27th. (It's that GloFish kit)

Anyway, I have one fish (Neon Tetra) and the tank hasn't completely cycled yet. 

I used to have a saltwater tank and it was actually EASIER to cycle than this one! (Although, more expensive in the long-run)

Specs for my tank are as follows:

1.5 gallon (Filled, changed and topped with dechlorinated DISTILLED WATER)
Internal, air-driven carbon/fiber filter cartridge.
Heater (Temp at 80F)
Gravel, plastic plants

Water parameters (From API Freshwater Master Test Kit):
pH: 6.4 (even though I'm using "Proper pH 7.0")
Ammonia: 1.0ppm
Nitrite 0.0ppm
Nitrate 0.0ppm
Phosphate: 10.0ppm

I use the following products:
API Proper pH 7.0
Tetra SafeStart with Bio-Spira
Tetra AquaSafe Plus
Tetra EasyBalance Plus

On hand:
Seachem Stability, Clarity and Prime

Food: TetraMin Tropical Flakes (Fed sparingly to the one fish I have)

My next step is to try to find someone with a mature set up for some gravel, but I don't personally know anyone with this. 

@Mark602: If I figure this out, I will let you know what I did. It sounds like we are having the EXACT same problem! :-(


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## faronem (Jan 6, 2012)

gallid said:


> Water parameters (From API Freshwater Master Test Kit):
> pH: 6.4 (even though I'm using "Proper pH 7.0")
> Ammonia: 1.0ppm
> Nitrite 0.0ppm
> Nitrate 0.0ppm


@gallid: Byron has a great article on the site about nitrifying bacteria here.

A blurb from it regarding your pH of 6.4 and rate of growth:


> The pH has a direct effect on nitrifying bacteria. These bacteria operate at close to 100% effectiveness at a pH of 8.3, and this level of efficiency decreases as the pH lowers. At pH 7.0 efficiency is only 50%, at 6.5 only 30%, and at 6.0 only 10%. Below 6.0 the bacteria enter a state of dormancy and cease functioning. [5]


However, note that increasing the pH will likely make your ammonium/ammonia levels more toxic if you're measuring 1ppm.


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## gallid (Jan 19, 2012)

faronem said:


> @gallid: Byron has a great article on the site about nitrifying bacteria here.
> 
> A blurb from it regarding your pH of 6.4 and rate of growth:
> 
> ...



I am aware of the pH factor. Unfortunately, I can't get the pH to get higher than 6.4. (Trying for 7.0) I'm trying to be careful not to "shock" the fish by raising the pH gradually, but seems it won't go any higher than 6.4. Any tips? I'm following the instructions to the letter for the API stuff. Mark602's pH is 7.0. What product are you using for pH balance?


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## faronem (Jan 6, 2012)

gallid said:


> I am aware of the pH factor. Unfortunately, I can't get the pH to get higher than 6.4. (Trying for 7.0) I'm trying to be careful not to "shock" the fish by raising the pH gradually, but seems it won't go any higher than 6.4. Any tips? I'm following the instructions to the letter for the API stuff. Mark602's pH is 7.0. What product are you using for pH balance?


By the way, gallid...welcome to the forum! New here myself.

I agree you should avoid quick pH changes, especially for 1.5 gallons. Also, FWIW, I could have definitely missed a post, but I think Mark602's mentioned his pH is 7.6?

Since you're starting with distilled water and presumably no hardness at all to buffer the pH, you might first try aerating the water to ensure you don't have a buildup of CO2 deflating your pH. 

I typically I have more alkaline water-related issues, but I've used crushed coral in the past to help buffer and regulate pH--not sure this is a good idea for your situation.


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## gallid (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks! My tank has an internal filter using an air pump as power. (Air goes into the draw tube and propels water into the filter)

Are there any good CO2 tests on the market?

-Dave
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Back up here, you're jumping too far and too fast on this pH.:lol:

First, pH is related to the hardness, primarily the carbonate hardness (KH, or Alkalinity). Attempts to adjust the pH will fail if the KH is high enough to buffer the pH. So I don't go repeating everything, you can read how this works here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/water-hardness-ph-freshwater-aquarium-73276/

Trying to adjust the pH when it is being naturally buffered will result in fluctuating pH, and if you should happen to pass the buffering capacity, the pH will very suddenly crash (drop) and this could kill the fish outright. The fluctuating pH stresses them considerably which weakens the immune system and this can lead to an early demise too.

The other point is the fish. There is no value in raising pH to 7 or higher for soft water fish that do best in (obviously) soft slightly acidic water. We can discuss this more when we know numbers for GH, KH and pH of the source (tap) water. You can test the pH (let the water sit overnight before testing), and get the GH and KH/Alkalinity from the water supply folks, they may even have a website.

On the cycling, what was mentioned previously is true. However, fish that live in very soft acidic water in nature, can do the same in the aquarium too, with no ammonia or nitrite issues. In acidic water ammonia automatically changes into ammonium which is basically harmless. The bacteria will still function though more slowly. Here's more info on this:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/

Another issue here is the neon tetra. This species is a shoaling fish that needs company; it will be highly stressed alone, and probably waste away. But there is insufficient space in a 1-2 gallon tank for this or any other tetra. This is a whole other problem which I will leave for the present, but I just wanted to caution you on this fish. But we do have fish profiles, second tab from the left in the blue bar across the top; if a name is used the same in posts, it will shade as it did here and you can click on that for the profile. Each profile includes data on numbers, minimum tank size, water parameters, etc.

Last, but certainly not least, welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.

Byron.


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## Mark602 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi Gallid hope u are getting your tank sorted, When my tank was cycling my ph was 7.6 now it's cycled it has dropped to 7.2. After adding mature filter media to my tank it cycled within 5 days, That's the way to do it in future!!


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

Mark602 said:


> Hi Gallid hope u are getting your tank sorted, When my tank was cycling my ph was 7.6 now it's cycled it has dropped to 7.2. After adding mature filter media to my tank it cycled within 5 days, That's the way to do it in future!!


Good news. Thanks for the update! Great to know you're up and running with one fish to spare. He'll be happy to have some company soon, I imagine.


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