# Catfish



## Teammuir1 (Sep 15, 2009)

here goes.. I have noticed that my catfish is now staying up on the glass 
and he has some sort of spot on his eye....?????
he normally hides.. and stays out of site.. 
but here recently ( YESTURDAY ) he has been staying out and
in the return line water stream against the glass....
If anyone knows what this could be PLEASE let me know...
here is a pic of him.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

As you see the fish better then me on the picture...compare it with post no 4 here the cloudy eyes http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/freshwater-saltwater-diseases-8179/


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Can you give us some more details.... The more info, the better

What size tank?
Test results for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?
How long has the tank been setup?
Have you recently used any medication and/or salt?


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## Teammuir1 (Sep 15, 2009)

OK.. sorry I have not posted till now but we have been out and about today...
thanks for the replys...
fist off the water perameters are just fine.... 
I tested everything yesturday....
I can do a water change but what difference will that make 
if I have no problems with the water????
This of course is not my first tank and this tank has been set
up now for almost 5 mths !!!!

are there any other suggestions?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

That appears to be the beginnings of a fungal infection from what the picture shows. It could have happened from an injury. In order to be of much help I am going to need more information. 
I am assuming this is the 75 gallon community tank?
What other fish are in that tank? (please list species and how many of each, and approximate sizes)
What are your water params for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH?
What is the water temp?
How often do you perform water changes? How much water each time?
What type of filtration is in the tank?
Live plants in that tank?
What type of substrate is in that tank?
How long has this tank been set up?
When was the last fish added?
Do you have a quarantine tank available?

The more info you can provide about that tank the easier it will be for me to find a safe and effective treatment plan for you.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

When you say water parameters are fine, You offer next to nothing for those that might be able to help you. What you call fine, may or may not be.
Water quality or lack thereof,is primary factor in 80 to 90 percent of all fish health issues. Water changes always benefit the fish by reducing /diluting all dissolved organics,along with any toxins that may be present. Water changes also provide minerals that fishes need and help to keep your pH stable.
Is hard to even guess what could be affecting the fish without the info asked for before posting in tropical fish disease or emergency section of this forum.
Will say that there appears to be damage to the fishes side and gill cover in addition to the eye problem. As mentioned,water quality may be not as fine as you think.


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## Teammuir1 (Sep 15, 2009)

1077 said:


> When you say water parameters are fine, You offer next to nothing for those that might be able to help you. What you call fine, may or may not be.
> Water quality or lack thereof,is primary factor in 80 to 90 percent of all fish health issues. Water changes always benefit the fish by reducing /diluting all dissolved organics,along with any toxins that may be present. Water changes also provide minerals that fishes need and help to keep your pH stable.
> Is hard to even guess what could be affecting the fish without the info asked for before posting in tropical fish disease or emergency section of this forum.
> Will say that there appears to be damage to the fishes side and gill cover in addition to the eye problem. .


 I am just over whelmed at your statements.
I started writing this reply and STOPPED myself in mid stream because it sounded very 
diragatory.....
.. when someone states that water parameters are fine YOU can only assume that they have checked the Ammonia levels , Nitrate levels , Nitite levels, and the Ph... now besides checking the Hardness of the water itself = KH and the GH.
I AM NOT SURE THERE IS A TEST KIT OUT THERE that TESTS TOXINS that you SPEAK OF... so if there is PLEASE EDUCATE ME .........
then you as a person looking in can only deduct that he or she has checked the quality of the water.


so lets break down what you just said..... 
WHEN ANYONE ON THIS FORUM asks about their fish thats the fist thing 
that someone says " WELL whats your water parameters?
IF I GIVE YOU AMONIA levesl = 0 ppm
NITRITE levels = 0 ppm
NITRATE levels = 0ppm
and the  PH level is right at 8.0 ( Can see that this tank had Crushed Shell for Substrate, so that buffers the PH level and keeps it steady 8.0 between regular water changes.)
water temp..... 80.6 degrees  ( use Digital Thermometer in all my tanks )
these numbers which that is what they are then your telling me that your satisfied..?????
but If I tell you that my water parameters are ok then your telling me " VAGLEY " that 
it does not tell you much.... well thats plain silly.......MOST people that have posted more than 
200 times on this forum should know how to check there water quality....and if a person tells 
you that their water checks out " OK " then you can only deduct from that, that they have
checked the basics.....
SO know I am putting you on the spot..... PLEASE tell me about another TEST KIT that 
checks TOXINS..... and what TOXINS you speak of?

I see so many times people POSTING ON THIS FORUM and other FORUMS silly comments just 
to get a posting number. EXAMPLE.... just yesturday I posted about identifying a couple of 
fish... and one posts on there 
WELL I am not a cichlid person so I cant do you much help... ( WHY THE HECK even POST anything then? ) I know why Just to add to their Number of Posts......

SO I hope you reply back with a substancial answere.... for my Water Quality and so called Toxin Problem......

Thanks 
Ron


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Ron,
Before things get too heated here, there is a good reason for needing exact numbers. First and foremost, it is vital to check for any traces of ammonia and nitrite, and to know how high nitrate is before medications can be administered. Traces of ammonia and/or nitrite that may be acceptable to some people as "fine" can turn a specific medication lethal. Secondly, pH plays a huge factor when working with medications as well. Some medications cannot be used within specific pH ranges for safety's sake. The answers are also not always in the individual numbers but in how those numbers correlate to each other. What one person may find as "acceptable" may not be safe for specific situations (such as meds as I mentioned) and it also gives us a better idea of what else to look for. 

I see that your nitrate reading is listed as 0. So, again I must ask how long this tank has been set up, along with what test kits you are using? An established tank with animals in it and food going into it should be showing "some" level of nitrate, even if it is low. With 0 nitrate we are left to wonder... does that mean the tank is not cycled? In which case ammonia and nitrite spikes can then be expected. 

I asked what type of substrate is in the tank, along with what other fish? Substrate affects not only water chemistry but some animals, such as scaleless catfish, can be injured by some types of substrate. We are attempting to trace the source of the problem because that plays a huge part in treatment of the problem. If we can't identify a source, even if treatment is administered, there is no way to ensure that the problem won't return.

Knowing what other fish are in the tank is vital before meds can be considered because not all medications are safe for all fish species. Without knowing the other fish in the tank, someone could suggest a medication safe for the sick fish but in the process that medication may wipe out another fish... or entire species of fish in the same tank. 

All of the questions asked here are standard and valid. Please be aware that diagnosing illness and disease in any animal, but especially in fish, is difficult and sometimes near impossible when doing it via internet. People are here to offer help and some just to offer support. Please do not turn this into something offensive. There is no need for that. FF is a very friendly forum with some good advice and lots of attention to issues. Our goal is to help each other and to help the animals. 

If you were to call an aquatic vet and ask for help via phone or internet, you would go through this same list of questions, and as those get answered, that will lead to others. If you still want help I am here to offer that, but I do need the info to the questions I asked before I can advise anything.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

An afterthought I feel I should add here... as far as toxins go... ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all toxins.


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## Teammuir1 (Sep 15, 2009)

First and for most here is were I messed up.... 
I posted this same issue 2 times.. once on the thread
I have were its the DIY 180 gallon tank.
then posted here as well and here You all do not 
know that its a 180 gallon or what all is in the tank.

But that does still not excuse the comments about 
water parameters.....
So I will add more to this......
This tank is a 180 gallon tank with crushed Shell for substrate.
this tank has already seen its cycle... ite been up and running 
now for about 3 mths.
This tank was not set up with all new substrate... ( meaning ) 
this tank is used and when I picked up I saved the crushed 
Shell and the bacteria in it... so the tank actually cycled much 
faster than normally if it were all NEW.
This tank has Mostly Cichlids in it.

I have just finished another 55 Gallon water change.. using Prime 
as a Conditioner.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Mostly cichlids in it? That still doesn't give me the info I need to help suggest a safe treatment for the catfish. In case I was unclear before in my prior posts, I need to know what kind of cichlids (species) and what else by species is in the tank. I can't know if a medication is safe for all of the fish in a tank unless I know what all of the fish are. If, on the other hand, you have the ability to put the catfish into a quarantine tank... that would avoid all of those issues (and save a lot of money on medications due to tank size).

I will also need to know the water temp and if there are any live plants in the tank?

Please let me know how you wish to proceed from here.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

bettababy said:


> Ron,
> Before things get too heated here, there is a good reason for needing exact numbers. First and foremost, it is vital to check for any traces of ammonia and nitrite, and to know how high nitrate is before medications can be administered. Traces of ammonia and/or nitrite that may be acceptable to some people as "fine" can turn a specific medication lethal. Secondly, pH plays a huge factor when working with medications as well. Some medications cannot be used within specific pH ranges for safety's sake. The answers are also not always in the individual numbers but in how those numbers correlate to each other. What one person may find as "acceptable" may not be safe for specific situations (such as meds as I mentioned) and it also gives us a better idea of what else to look for.
> 
> I see that your nitrate reading is listed as 0. So, again I must ask how long this tank has been set up, along with what test kits you are using? An established tank with animals in it and food going into it should be showing "some" level of nitrate, even if it is low. With 0 nitrate we are left to wonder... does that mean the tank is not cycled? In which case ammonia and nitrite spikes can then be expected.
> ...


 
Could not,would not, add anything or attempt to explain it better. My apologies to original poster for my apprehensiveness at assuming anything.


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## Teammuir1 (Sep 15, 2009)

So last night I changed out 55 gallons of water out of the 180 gallon tank
I am not sure if it is helping at all.. 
same conditions as before with all the water parameters...
AMMONIA 0 ppm 
NITRATE 0 ppm
NITRITE 0 ppm
Ph 8.0 '
The cat fish does not appear to have any Gill trama
he is staying towards the top of the tank what seems to 
be laboring..... ( I dont know ) would another water change if 
I did one would make any difference?
if in fact the 4 toxins that we are speaking of are all ok 
WHAT ELSE ( other Toxins ) are there... ????
if we cant talk in specifics here then all we are doing is 
talking in general.

The only thing I learned from the link about cloudy eyes are 
poor water quality... 
SO if its poor water quality then how come all the tests check 
out to be OK ?

This is a big tank.... and I only have 3 live plants in there... they
are doing ok .. not thriving but ok...so is it possible 
that another fish had some type of parrasite that when introduced to 
the tank... it infected the weakest fish?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Teammuir1,

I have attempted repeatedly in this thread to help you with your catfish, but I don't see how that is possible when you continue to avoid answering my questions. Unfortunately, there is nothing more I can do here, so I am going to move on to help those who appear to really want help.

If you have a change of heart and really wish for help in treating your fish's infection, please let me know by answering the questions I have asked so I can list a treatment option for you.

Good luck to you.


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## Teammuir1 (Sep 15, 2009)

bettababy said:


> Teammuir1,
> 
> I have attempted repeatedly in this thread to help you with your catfish, but I don't see how that is possible when you continue to avoid answering my questions. Unfortunately, there is nothing more I can do here, so I am going to move on to help those who appear to really want help.
> 
> ...


 WELL first thing is first...
WHEN someone tells you that the readings are 0 ppm 
and you say thats not possible on an established tank then
YOUR SADLY mistakin.... 
Here are the results of my 120 gallon that has been up and running now 
better than a year... and has produced over 160 babies since then.
and today after your last post.. I went and tested the water...
here are the results and the pics. OH and by the way.. the test kit is API 
DELUXE ( liquid drops ) Kit.
I believe everyone here uses this type of KIT.. if there is a better one out there
I am not aware of it and you all do not speak of another one on this forum.

THANKS YOU ANGEL079 for the link to help me !!!!
Twistersmom : The Tank Size is a 180 gallon
TEST RESULTS : Again I repeat for the Third Time I think!!! 
Ammonia 0 pm
Nitrate 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Ph 8.0
I will add to this the temperature.  80.5 degrees
Tank has been set up now for 3 mths ( AND HAS CYCLED )
NO MEDS have been used. and NO SALTS either.

BETTABABY asks....... what other fish are in the tank ( Cichlids ) Wants SPECIFICS
OK........ LAKE MALAWI
1 male Aulonocara Baenschi about 4 inches
1 female Aulonocara Baenschi about 4 inches
1 male Aulonocara Rubenscens about 4 inches
2 female Aulonocara Rubescens about 4 inches
1 male Aulonocara Maulana about 4 inches
1 male Pseudotropheus zebra about 4 inches
1 male haplochromis moorii about 4 inches
1 female haplochromis moorii about 4 inches
1 male Pseudotropheus Kenei about 4 inches
1 male Pseudotropheus Pindani about 4 inches

and 2 fish that are not ( Cichlids ) _*Hypostomus plecostomus*_ about 6 inches
OHHHH And I amost forgot 1* Synodontis multipunctatus*

I have already stated the water params several times. 
Water temp = 80.5 degrees
Water Changes are done every 2nd week 2 times a month. 55 gallons ea time
THE FILTRATION SYSTEM Rena Filstar Xp4 ( Canister ) type
There are 3 Live plants
The substrate is CRUSHED SHELL ( TRUE CRUSHED SHELL )
THIS tank has been up and running now for 3 mths
LAST weekend I added a pair of Aulonocara Baenschi ( thats Male and Female )
YES I do have a Q/T tank available ( And I have already moved him/ didn't need someone to tell me to move a sick fish )

SO now that I have read this entire thread through out. and every question here has been 
answered... unless I have missed one some were on the way I might as well go ahead and add
to the last comments..... that were written here.....

The only person here that has offered me the help a person could ask for 
was Angel079 again thanks for the GREAT LINK... that looks like the problem 
but what puzzles me is the fact that it states Poor Water Quality ..... THAT just 
strikes me as WRONG... knowing how I care for Our tanks and how many Water 
changes I do in a months time ( lol )


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

We could have avoided all of this sarcasm if you had simply answered the questions in the beginning. I would treat him with Melafix, follow the instructions on the bottle and be careful not to overdose.

Because of the tone of this thread, I am now done here. If you need further assistance I will suggest you find someone else to help you.


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Bettababy has already suggested a med, she knows more than I about treating fish. So, I would follow her suggestion.

As far as the nitrate test, I could only dream of getting a zero reading in a cycled tank. Pehaps the test has expired. I have also read, that you should shake the bottles a couple minutes longer than the directions say, to get an accurate reading.

Might not be a bad idea, to take some water to the store for comparison. I have done this before, when I have been in doubt of my test results. At least this way, we can for sure, rule out high nitrates as the problem.

Good luck with the catfish! Hope he recovers for you.


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