# South American Tank



## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

Hi there, 

I have a planted 42 gallon (100x40x40cm), mainly Echinodorus sp. with some Brazilian Pennywort, Helanthium tenellum and Amazon Frogbit - waiting for them all to grow in a bit as I bought them online and they are a bit worse for wear from a weekend in the post office! I dose Flourish 2x weekly and have added root tabs around the swords. The substrate is play sand and there are 2 large pieces of bogwood in there.

My question is a stocking one, I want to do a South American themed tank but am unsure of actual numbers of fish that I can have in this tank.

My plan so far:
~ 15 Neon Tetra (I already have 7)
~ 10 Brilliant Rummy Nose Tetra
~ 10 Corydoras sp. (my LFS has an amazing range of corys so I was thinking of having 2 types, 5 of each, totalling 10?)
~ 1-2 Bolivian Ram
~ 1 Leopard Frog Pleco L134 (LFS also has some beautiful examples of these and has done for a while, hence the specific choice - will it eat my plants though?)

I also love Marble Hatchetfish, Emperor Tetra, Whiptail Catfish

I am interested to what you think of these numbers - Aqadvisor says OK but I am reluctant to trust a computer programme when there is so much experience to be found here!

Too many fish? More fish? Can any of the extras I mentioned be incorporated?

Just a note on the Neons, I realise that Cardinal Tetra may be a better choice but these were the first fish I bought for my smaller tank and I felt that although they were ok in there, they would be happier in a bigger tank in a bigger group and so have moved them over  surprisingly they are the original 7 I brought home in August - no frail tetra in this house! :lol:

The tank: 










Apologies for the dodgy photo and thanks


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## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

NB: dGH is 8 and pH is 6.6


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

What a nice aquarium this is going to become as the plants establish and grow, and with the fish. Water parameters are perfect too.:-D

I would increase the rummys, they are always better with more; fifteen would be my aim.

Marble hatchetfish would be good, no less than 15 here too. Just keep the tank well covered, you know why.;-)

The Emperor I would not include, not with this combination of fish. I have a group of Emperors in my more active tank, and they are better suited there than in a tank with what are sedate fish; I had to move mine for this very reason. The rummys are the most active swimmers here, but even they are relatively calm by comparison to Emperors.

Whiptail catfish are very nice, they are extremely peaceful, and add some "unusual" interest, always making me think prehistoric. The common smaller species in our profile, Rineloricaria parva, is the one you want. Or for something different, the red variant, in our profiles as Red Lizard Whiptail. I have a trio of these in with one R. parva, they go their own way.

The pleco, now described as _Peckoltia_ _compta_ is a fish I have not had, but from what I can find out it should be OK with plants. It is primarily carnivorous, not touching algae much if at all. Gets 4-5 inches. Best on its own, as it is territorial. Peaceful with other fish. However, one big drawback here: it needs a decent water current, as it occurs in moderate to fast-flowing streams over rocky substrates. All the other fish are quiet water, so this is not a good match. And, such fish can be a problem with sand, rearranging it and uprooting plants in the process.

Hope this is of some help.

Byron.


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## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

Good point regarding the pleco and water flow, I hadn't picked up on that, perhaps not a good fit in this tank then!

15 Neons
15 Rummys
15 Marble Hatchets
10 Corys
1-2 Bolivians
1 Whiptail Cat (or more?)

as a revised list then maybe?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

tinytetra said:


> Good point regarding the pleco and water flow, I hadn't picked up on that, perhaps not a good fit in this tank then!
> 
> 15 Neons
> 15 Rummys
> ...


That's fine. You can have 1, 2 or 3 whiptails, up to you. Just make sure it is the smaller species, some of the others get large.

Forgot to mention on the Bolivian previously, it is fine alone (1 fish, male preferably as they are a bit more colourful), or in a pair. But it must be a bonded pair [I'll explain if you ask] or there will be trouble.


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## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes that's fine about the Bolivians, I was going to see if if could definitely spot a bonded pair in the LFS tank and if not just get 1 to be on the safe side


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

This is one nice tank. 

While there is nothing wrong with the setup there are a few things I might mention that have nothing to do with fish stocking, sort of my aesthetic views.

Those plants on the right look awfully arranged, nice neat rows, which is probably optimal for the plants and lighting but really looks "gardened". I'd suggest moving a few about so they are more scattered looking or even in groups. Perhaps it won't be an issue later as they fill in but the arrangement detracts from the really great wood piece... the linearity draws the eye to the right first. They look like they will get reasonably tall so even moving them off farther to the right to allow for more ground cover plants in the middle to give you an open water space and a visual break from wood to tall green.

If you have more sand left I would suggest considering pouring it (really slowly, or even setting it in as it will flow anyway) in the rear right corner to bring the sand level up to 3' - 4" and letting it settle from the back corner to the level you have now at the front. This would give some dimension to the bottom. Moving the plants onto this slope will help hold the sand in place as it will tend to flow over time... some sand rearranging might be necessary long term but the plant roots will stabilize it somewhat.

Attaching some green to the wood would be nice too, java moss, java fern come to mind quickly (only because I have them) but there are others that could be attached to enhance the woodscape... even some small crpyts underneath the wood would be cool and still leave the bottom open for fish to move through easily.

I'd love to get my hands in that tank and play in the sand with a plant budget... and more sand.

Jeff.


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## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks for your thoughts on the set up and stocking guys, I find it difficult to see issues with aquascaping myself due to having spent too long staring at the tank :lol: 

I had a little play about last night with your ideas in mind JDM and have indeed moved some of the taller plants over to the right into more of a group and banked the sand higher in that corner (didn't have spare so just worked with what I have).. it does look more natural - and the Neons seem to like it more - they were doing their little spawning dance over there this morning ;-) 
The foreground plants seem to look lined up one way or another however I place them so I will just have to wait for them to grow in a little I think :-D

Any thoughts on what order best to add the proposed fish? I am eager to get some Corys (love those little guys) but I understand it's better to add bottom dwellers later as this is where more of the toxins accumulate if there are any present - is this true or just a rumour?


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## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

ps: there is some 'Fissidens Fontanus' tied onto the wood (up and left from the reddish plant in front) but it is a little sorry for itself at the moment - new shoots are coming but I'm awaiting the day it looks like the pictures I find on the internet :roll: lol


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Pics, pics, post more pics.:-D

Jeff.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

tinytetra said:


> Any thoughts on what order best to add the proposed fish? I am eager to get some Corys (love those little guys) but I understand it's better to add bottom dwellers later as this is where more of the toxins accumulate if there are any present - is this true or just a rumour?


It has to do more with the fish species. New tanks usually take 2-3 months to settled, and will continue becoming what we can call truly established during the subsequent months.

Corys are highly sensitive to fluctuating water conditions plus they do not tolerate ammonia or nitrite at all well. This is why they are generally best added later rather than in a new setup. However, live plants (of which you have many) does enter into this, and you have some fish in now (the neons mentioned).

I would first increase the neons, assuming you have not yet done this, up to the intended total. Then I would add the rummys (together, always add the entire species group together). Then the corys. Then the Bolivian(s), hatchetfish, etc., whatever is planned.

Do you have a small tank to quarantine new fish? There was a time when I never did this, for more than 15 years in fact, and only a couple times had to deal with ich which was then easy to deal with. But times have changed. Protozoan are much more common in fish these days, and I have nearly wiped out two tanks during the past few months so I now QT all new fish, regardless.

Byron.


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## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

Awesome, thanks! Currently have 8 new Neons in quarantine (to bring the total to 15) - how long is recommended to wait before adding them to the main tank, assuming they show no signs of illness?

Also had a major plant trim to get rid of dead leaves left over from shipping, have noticed some new leaves (particularly on the pygmy swords) are quite pale, almost yellow? Any one have any idea what the deficiency may be or is this normal and they'll darken as they age? I dose flourish 2x weekly, lights are 2x T8s (1x 6700K, 1x 18000K) and are on 10 hours a day.

Thanks!


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## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

a photo to illustrate (please excuse the ick, its vac-day) -










Are they pale or am I being paranoid :-?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Pull them out of the sand a bit until only the roots are under. Planting them too deep will hinder the leaf development and can cause them to rot below the surface of the sand... I did the same with my little guys and it has made the difference between wondering if they were going to make it (constant dead leaves outpacing the new stuff, not much of it) and no dead leaves and new growth.

Here is a sort of before and after shot. It doesn't look like much of a difference in depth but every little bit helps. My yellow is mainly due to the stained water. This may not be your particular issue with the leaves but it certainly can help long run. Oh, the before is just after a pruning so the leaves look good, but they weren't all that way before the shot.

My leaves would turn yellow and translucent then brown and I would have to pare them. 

Jeff.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Awesome, thanks! Currently have 8 new Neons in quarantine (to bring the total to 15) - how long is recommended to wait before adding them to the main tank, assuming they show no signs of illness?


Three weeks is minimum, and 4 wouldn't hurt. I always do 3 then carefully observe them for a while. Depending where I got them, I may move them at this stage, or I may leave them another week or two. Easy things like ich occur usually within 2 weeks. But the even more serious issues like internal protozoan can take longer. If any of them die, do not move the others but wait and determine the cause.



> Also had a major plant trim to get rid of dead leaves left over from shipping, have noticed some new leaves (particularly on the pygmy swords) are quite pale, almost yellow? Any one have any idea what the deficiency may be or is this normal and they'll darken as they age? I dose flourish 2x weekly, lights are 2x T8s (1x 6700K, 1x 18000K) and are on 10 hours a day.


Jeff responded to this, but one other thing occurs to me. Earlier the GH was given as 8, is this in degrees (dGH) or ppm?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Byron said:


> Earlier the GH was given as 8, is this in degrees (dGH) or ppm?


dGH, 8 is good.



tinytetra said:


> Also had a major plant trim to get rid of dead leaves left over from shipping, have noticed some new leaves (particularly on the pygmy swords) are quite pale, almost yellow?


Also, though I am not sure of the accuracy of this, plants can draw nutrients out of the old leaves. These plants shed outer leaves and grow new from the centre normally so leaving the outer leaves until they are almost ready to fall off can be beneficial to the plant. Whether true or not, it makes sense and appears to be accurate based on what I am seeing with my regular swords. I am choosing to leave them until the bitter end and think that cutting too early could be detrimental to the plant growth.

Jeff.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

JDM said:


> Also, though I am not sure of the accuracy of this, plants can draw nutrients out of the old leaves. These plants shed outer leaves and grow new from the centre normally so leaving the outer leaves until they are almost ready to fall off can be beneficial to the plant. Whether true or not, it makes sense and appears to be accurate based on what I am seeing with my regular swords. I am choosing to leave them until the bitter end and think that cutting too early could be detrimental to the plant growth.


Yes, this is true, about the mobile nutrients. I don't like seeing yellowing leaves:lol: so provided the plants has a decent leaf number I usually tug off the decaying leaves from the chain sword and pygmy chain sword during the water change.

Mobile nutrients are nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, magnesium, and molybdenum.

Byron.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Byron said:


> Yes, this is true, about the mobile nutrients. I don't like seeing yellowing leaves:lol: so provided the plants has a decent leaf number I usually tug off the decaying leaves from the chain sword and pygmy chain sword during the water change.
> 
> Mobile nutrients are nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, magnesium, and molybdenum.
> 
> Byron.


OK, good to know I was on the right track. Given my own way I would leave them till they dropped and then some. I see that the catfish are looking for stuff to get underneath and leaf litter form the regular swords would be a good start... others in the house don't like the dead look though.

Jeff.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

@JDM

What about adding oak leaves? My kuhli loaches love it.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

jentralala said:


> @JDM
> 
> What about adding oak leaves? My kuhli loaches love it.


Winter makes that hard up here... I did see someone who has a small oak in their yard that still has some leaves on it though. I wonder if they would mind if I took a few. 

Thanks for the reminder.

Jeff.


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## tinytetra (Dec 20, 2012)

OK, pulled all plants out a bit - i did bury the pygmy's quite deep as they looked more 'scattered' that way with random leaves poking up, but for the health of the plants up they come 
@Byron yes, 8dGH is correct so I'm assuming that minerals in the water column is not the issue, I'll see how they go now I've pulled them up a bit...

I have Indian Almond Leaves as leaf litter under the arch of the driftwood as a refuge for my future corys :-D bought them online since its the wrong time of year for oak leaves!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

tinytetra said:


> OK, pulled all plants out a bit - i did bury the pygmy's quite deep as they looked more 'scattered' that way with random leaves poking up, but for the health of the plants up they come
> @Byron yes, 8dGH is correct so I'm assuming that minerals in the water column is not the issue, I'll see how they go now I've pulled them up a bit...
> 
> I have Indian Almond Leaves as leaf litter under the arch of the driftwood as a refuge for my future corys :-D bought them online since its the wrong time of year for oak leaves!


All sounds good.


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