# I want to find out what killed my dwarf gourami



## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

1. Size of tank?

29 gallon

2. Water parameters

a. Ammonia?
.25 or .0 I can never tell.
b. Nitrite?
00
c. Nitrate?
60 ppm
d. pH, KH and GH?
Ph-8.2 kh-14 gh-17
e. Test kit?

API

3. Temperature?

78 however we are in Arizona so the water might be higher at times.

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? 

FW

5. How long the aquarium has been set up?

2 years

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?

4 red cherry shrimp, 3 months, half an inch to an inch
1 bristle nose pleco, 6 months, still frowning, 2.5 inches
6 harlequin rasboras, 9 months, 1 inch (or so)
3 golden barbs, 5 months, 2 inches or so.
4 gold zebra danios, 7 months, 2 inches or so
The lady at the petstore (my mistake for going to petsmart) gave me danios instead of barbs the first batch and I didn't realize it until I bought more barbs to fill up the school.

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?

Yes, for 2 weeks in a 5 gallon that has 2 african dwarf frogs in it.

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?
Fake plants
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?
Gravel
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?

River rocks, driftwood, no hollow

9. a. Filtration?
Top fin 60 hob
b. Heater?

Yes

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?

Yes, fluorescent, nothing special, got them replaced once since original

b. Any sunlight exposure? How long?

None

11. a. Water change schedule?
Every week, occasionally once every 2 weeks
b. Volume of water changed?
30% 10-15 gallons
c. Well water, tap water, RO water?
Tap water
d. Water conditioner used?
API or seachem
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?

Every week

12. Foods?
Flakes from petsmart, occasionally frozen brine shrimp or bloodworms. Freeze dried bloodworms, brine shrimp, micro worms. Occasional zucchini, blanched and skin removed, algae wafers.

How often are they fed?
Once a day, maybe the zucchini or algae wafer a later than the usual feed.


13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
Red spots or dwarf gourami, hiding a lot, very shy about eating, while globs on him.
b. Appearance of poop?
Black string I think, but I went out of town right after I quarantined.
c. Appearance of gills?

Perhaps bulging slightly.

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? 
I have him some antibacterial food for a short time and used pimafix and melafix in case it was fungal or something else it could cure.
b. What meds were used?

Pimafix and melafix (think that's what they're called)

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.

I didn't get a photo of the fish sick. But there were about 10 red areas, they looked raw, I thought it may be an injury, but he kept getting more and none of the fish in there are that aggressive. Then they starting turning while, maybe fungus, could it be dwarf gourami disease? None of the other fish were showing symptoms and I don't see fungus on my frog. Before the fish died it layed on the ground for a while gasping.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well your nitrates are threw the roof. That is most likely what killed him, they are sensitive to high nitrates. Especially now since they have been so interbreed. Do some more water changes or get some live plants. Live plants will suck up all those nitrates.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

My 20 gallon planted has off the charts nitrates, sometimes at 80 ppm only, I do a 50% water change weekly and they are still horrible. I'm about giving up on the whole live plants sucking up nitrates. That may have been in correct actually, they're only at 40.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Do more water changes, feed less, and get some duckweed.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

tankman12 said:


> Do more water changes, feed less, and get some duckweed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Less than once a day? I used to feed 3 times a day it's already a big change. More than once a week?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Do once every other day. Get some duckweed, it will suck up all the nutrients and it is literally impossible to kill that plant. If you can do 50% every day.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

tankman12 said:


> Do once every other day. Get some duckweed, it will suck up all the nutrients and it is literally impossible to kill that plant. If you can do 50% every day.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I have a python now so I can, and do when it gets too bad, but they always come back. Would you suggest ordering them online? Or is it common in shops?

I believe that in the 30 gallon they are cause from improper filter maintenance. However now I rinse a cartridge every week, and there are two in that filter so I switch the one I rinse.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Do you wash them in tap water or tank water? Also your lfs will have duckweed.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

tankman12 said:


> Do you wash them in tap water or tank water? Also your lfs will have duckweed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



If I am rinsing both at once then tank water, but if just one I'll usually do tap out of convenience. My lfs is half an hour away but close to somewhere I go once a week so I can try them. How many plants should I buy? For all my tanks?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Yes for all the tanks. They will allow you to have 0 nitrates. They eat it fast. Usually they come in portions, so idk get maybe a portion for each tank. Look them up so you know what they are. Once you get it,it will be hard to get rid of. That is what people say. Also get dwarf water lettuce if they have it. Them combined will suck up that nutrients fast. They are both floating plants and will multiply fast.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Maybe I should start with one batch then? And just move them? I've done a bit of research before because I wanted to get some after seeing how nice the fake ones looked, the price wasn't too bad.. Water lettuce too but I didn't research that one.

I could just separate them right away since I've read they can spread disease from tank to tank if it's in there.

I'm go into check the perimeters again today so I will have a more accurate reading.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Just get one of each. But if the portions are small get a couple. Portions usually are only 1 or 2 bucks.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Oh, well in that case no problem, on eBay there were around $10 and there were many different ranges. I'll call ahead to make sure.

Also would I get one for the 5 gallon frog tank?

Should I replace the dwarf gourami when I go there? I like to get dg's and angelfish at non chain stores and while I'm already there... But if it was dwarf gourami I should get another dg and would get an angel or something on the larger side.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ya that is WAY overpriced for duckweed and water lettuce. Some stores will even give it away for free. Does the frog tank have a light? If so ya go ahead and throw some in there. I personally have not had good experience with angelfish with gouramis. I would do one or the other. I would do the angels, i have 3 in my 29 and they are so cool. Im trying to get a pair out of them. Do a huge water change 75% or so right before you leave, if you are going to get fish.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Yes, I meant one or the other. I do have 2 angels with 1 gourami in my 45 and they're fine  

Although is there a reason my angels aren't really growing? They're almost the same size as when I got them and the pinoy isn't turning blue.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Vpaw, plants are not a magic fix for your issue. Can you do me a favor and put a cup of treated (with water conditioner) tap water on your counter for 24 hours and tell me what the results of testing it are? I'm suspecting you have nitrates in your tap. The red patches don't sound like it was a result of the nitrate. While dangerous over 40ppm, it doesn't burn the fish like you are describing. Bacterial infections can cause red patches and I would lean more towards that as a cause of death.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

How long have you had the angels and what else is in the tank?


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Flint- are the results only accurate after a day? When I tested the tap before it had 0 nitrates and nitrites and I believe ammonia as well. 

I have had he angels for a good 5 or so months.
Also in the tank:
Black red tailed shark
6 black skirt tetras
2 Dalmatian mollies (I'd like to replace he, with something more exotic)
4 nerite snails
1 male flaming dwarf gourami
1 pinoy angel 1 koi (I think) angel


The filtration is enough for a 100 gallon tank, 3 chambers, there are 2 sets of air stones, one goes across he tanks, dividing it into parts, the other is small in a corner, one section of the tank has high movement which is good for the shark, the other part I believe to have quieter waters. 

There are plenty of hiding places with lots of decor, a cavelike hung, and fake silk plants, there are also 2 fake water lotus for floating coverage.



Also yes, the frog tank has LED lights.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

There are gas exchanges that happen to water over the course of a day so I would like a 24 hour testing, please. 

The 45 looks good stock-wise so I don't know why the angels havent grown much. Try offering some meaty foods such as frozen bloodworms, sprulina and beefheart.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Where did you get them? Cuz they could be stunted. Also what do you feed them?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Stunting fish is a lot harder than people think, tankman. If they look proportionate, they aren't stunted.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

It could still be stunted, flint. Some fish like platies i have seen stunted and they look just like a normal platy.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

There are smaller fish that come from bad breeding but stunting has been proven to show physical aspects. Typically the head is not proportionate to the body.
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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

It is probably stunted. Or it isnt getting enough nutrients to grow.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't agree that they're stunted.
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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Than what is it?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

For one, angels are slow growers. He really hasn't had them long. They also may not be getting enough qualify food which could make them grow even slower. There are a lot of things besides stunting it could be.
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## sprmankalel (Aug 9, 2013)

I notice that my angels are slow growing. I see spurts after a large water change (50% or more). Also since I have bee feeding frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp rather than freeze dried bloodworms or tubifex worms I see a little growth in my smaller angels. Still slow though. 

I don't think that 40ppm nitrates is very harmful but you will notice fish becoming lethargic. Plants will help but control nitrates but it's not a solution. 

It is quite possible that the fish itself was sick and/or just stressed and it was just time for it to pass. I'd be way more concerned if there was a massive die off or others showing symptoms.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Ok, so I went to pickup a bike from Craigslist and the lfs was on the way there so on my way back I went there. 

Apparently water lettuce is illegal in my state.. XD
They were very cautious and asked me if I was sure that I wanted duckweed.... But anyways they had a tiny bit of babies there, and they have it to me for free, yay! I may have also bought some more fish... ( '-')

I got my angels at the lfs, which is why I went here in the first place ever because they're more exotic and I didn't think petco and petsmart would be good enough. I got the pinoy for $25

I feed them flakes, freeze dried bloodworms and brine shrimp and microforms, frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp. Sometimes zucchini and peas. I'd have to find out about that beef heart stuff and the other thing I've never heard of... 

Should I be feeding the angels more than once a day? Everyone says only feed fish once a day so I just do now and maybe that's why they aren't growing very well.

And I'll do the cup of water thing


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Everything sounds good. Keep doing what you're doing and they will grow well!


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

One of mine is 6 inches (bought him when he was the size of a dime) and i have only had him for 6 months. But my water quality is amazing and i do big water changes, couple times a week. I do feed all my tanks 3-5 times a day. Small feedings though, its more natural that way. Good water quality + a lot of good food + big frequent water changes + enough room = insane growth in fish.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

That'd be nice. I guess I'll feed that tank more. My water quality is actually really good in that tank, usually 30% weekly water changes, occasionally more. Other than high ph at 8.2 in all tanks I'm not sure what it could be.

So for the dg death, any ideas on how he even could of gotten the wounds?


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Likely a bacterial infection
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

If it was it got really really bad, but it's possible. I just don't know how he got the wounds in the first place..


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

If he got a minor bacterial infection and it went untreated it would get to that level. The wounds are from the infection not causing the infection.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Oh, that's interesting. How would he have gotten it in the first place? 

I did another pair tier test yesterday. Ok they aren't looking great... I'll just give them for all the tanks.

Nitrate results:
5 gallon- 5ppm
20 gallon- off he charts... (160ppm+)
30 gallon- 80 ppm
45 gallon- 40 ppm

Ph- 8.2 for all 

The 20 being the planted tank I don't know what is wrong with it! I don't know anything about trimming though, so there might be dead matter in there, and most of my stock is bottom dwellers.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Might have scraped himself on tank decor and the odds weren't in his favor. The 20, 30 and 40 gallon need immediate large water changes. The 20 gallon needs as large of a water change as you can without drying out the fish. That's exremely dangerous. I would do 50-75% on the other two. Plants don't fix nitrates.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Plants and water changes are the only things that get rid of nitrates. If you don't have enough plants or they are not thriving than you can't relay on them. +1 on what flint said. Could you post what you have in those tanks?
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Isn't 40 ppm still ok?

45- 
2 angelfish
1 dwarf gourami
6 black skirt tetras
1 black red tailed shark
2 mollies

30-
3 rainbows (babies still)
1 bristle nose pleco
2 zebra danios
3 gold barbs
6 harlequin rasboras

20-
6 Cory cats
1 Otto
3 nerite snails
2 platties
2 baby platties 
1 Betta
Perhaps 30 red cherry shrimp

Usually on the 20 if I do 3 50% water changes in a week they will be at a good level, that's just to get them down.

20 gallon:







5 gallon:







30 gallon:







45 gallon:









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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

40 is okay. But not great, you want it 0 if you can. The stocks are fine. It must be your tap water.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

40ppm is absolute max. We prefer to stay under 20. First off, remove the bamboo and throw it away. It cannot be fully submerged and that dying will contribute to bioload more than you want. Your stocking looks fine but you need to get those numbers down ASAP.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Dont throw the bamboo out. Put it in your filter. The roots will feed on the nitrates.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

It's likely already too far gone. Once you submerge it, it's not a good outcome.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well if it is soft and dying, throw it out. But if it has some white roots and is still hard, throw it your filter.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

They die even before that, tankman. It will likely just provide more ammonia he doesn't need.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

I moved the little one into the 5 because it came with the one in the 20, which seems to be doing fine, I have that ones leaves out the top, the filter idea is a good one I was trying to figure out a way to keep then above water. 

0ppm nitrates sounds impossible XD how exactly can that even be obtained and kept? They produce waste either way.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

The bamboo is only about a week old since I got it, but was submerged at the petstore. It isn't soft and still has roots, the 5 gallon is pretty well balanced so I can afford a little mess up if it means I can save the bamboo. The one in the 20 has a strange root starting to grow near the top...


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

0ppm cannot be kept. The bamboo is very well the cause of most of your nitrates. I really suggest taking it out.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

0ppm is very easy to keep. Or at least for me. I have tons of plants in all my tanks and weekly water changes.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

My nitrates have always been really high in that tank and the bamboo is new, I doubt it's the problem.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Ok, I'm doing a 50% on the 45 right now and will do 75%'s on the 20 and 30


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I have more plants than water in one of my tanks and only have a single fish and two otos. I still have nitrates at the end of the week. 0 is not realistic. 

The bamboo will contribute to your problem. I highly suggest removing it if you want to get closer to solving it. Any tap results yet?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Look at what I have in my 29g. It is very overstocked and i have zero nitrates. I doubt it is the bamboo, but i would remove it and put in the filter though.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

I only set it out last night so we will have to wait til 7:00 before I test the tap.

The bamboo seems alive though.

Also I'm not sure it is the tap since the 5 gallon is doing well. I also only dose the conditioner after all the water has been replaced.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Vpaw said:


> I only set it out last night so we will have to wait til 7:00 before I test the tap.
> 
> The bamboo seems alive though.
> 
> ...


Do you have any dead fish/shrimp/snails hidden in the tanks?
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't mean any offense but your gourami was doing fine, too, then it died. The same thing can be happening in your tanks. It was fine but it's not anymore.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

If anything does everything else eats it, but when I do water changes I look around and suck things up, I seldom find anything dead. My Julie Cory dies a couple weeks ago but she was 2 years old or so, so I'm not surprised.

I used to have goldfish in the 30, and now I'm just glad the results are on the charts. I know how to get them down, just not how to keep then down.

There's often dead plant matter in the 20 though...


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

The plant matter would do it. Also that hornwort plant in the 5 gallon should be floating, they dont make roots and will die if buried.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

For when I do test the tap, should I only do nitrate or ammonia and nitrite as well?


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Vpaw said:


> If anything does everything else eats it, but when I do water changes I look around and suck things up, I seldom find anything dead. My Julie Cory dies a couple weeks ago but she was 2 years old or so, so I'm not surprised.
> 
> I used to have goldfish in the 30, and now I'm just glad the results are on the charts. I know how to get them down, just not how to keep then down.
> 
> ...


without having read all the thread.. The way you keep your nitrates down aside from plants assisting (if yours are) is large water changes.. and if you have a problem with high nitrates so often then you need to be doing the water changes far more often. Even though my plants keep the nitrates in check in all the tanks that have plants (they are jungles of plants..not just a few) is by 80-90% water changes and weekly if I have time. Now if you are running a really high bioload (dead plant matter hurts too) then more/better filtration would be needed. I'd wonder too if your filter is all gunked up... try rinsing the filter media if its really dirty. Some say do it in tank water but I do it in plain tap water.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Usually the stem plants are the ones they give off the plant matter, although one leaf of one if the broad leaf plants doesn't look good, I just can't find a forum that tells about leaf trimming or things like that. Just on lights, mechanics, and fertilizer :/


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Agent13 said:


> without having read all the thread.. The way you keep your nitrates down aside from plants assisting (if yours are) is large water changes.. and if you have a problem with high nitrates so often then you need to be doing the water changes far more often. Even though my plants keep the nitrates in check in all the tanks that have plants (they are jungles of plants..not just a few) is by 80-90% water changes and weekly if I have time. Now if you are running a really high bioload (dead plant matter hurts too) then more/better filtration would be needed. I'd wonder too if your filter is all gunked up... try rinsing the filter media if its really dirty. Some say do it in tank water but I do it in plain tap water.



I mentioned earlier in the thread that I rinse the cartridges weekly, and if there is more Han one then I alternate weeks with tap water, I also am a bit reluctant to unhook my sponge filter but I usually end up using tap for that cause the water is really brown everytime. My stocking isn't very heavy. Perhaps I should get more plants from the lfs instead of Petco and Petsmart?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ya. Most plants at petco and petsmart are not aquarium plants.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Well I know to stay away from the ones in the tubes, and only pick ones that I've either seen before in aquariums or well I just hope the broad leaf kinds are ok. I know at least that the one tied to the driftwood is doing well, it let's out new leafs constantly and even flowered when it was the season.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

I can't find the on google either. Some of my harlequin rasboras have red eyes and others yellow. Is that normal?


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

What's wrong with the pants in tubes? Almost all of my plants have come from a chain in a tube and are doing wonderfully.


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## Super4Ever (Apr 3, 2014)

Yeah, the most certain do carry aquatic plants, both in and out of the tubes. You can actually get some nice plants here and there. However, there are times when they sell non-aquatic plants as aquatic ones. As long as you know what you're buying it shouldn't be a problem.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Really? I've always heard the ones in the tubes are semi-aquatic, although a lot of them look healthier than the ones in their tanks so I was temped. Maybe next time I should just google the plant before I pick it out to make sure it's aquatic.

Ok finished the water changes. 

In the 30 I did 75% and in the 20 I want to say 85% and took out a few unhealthy looking plants and some more debris from them.

Side note: I didn't use the regular conditioner on the tap water I'm going to test I used the ones I use for the frogs since it was such a small amount of water. I hope that's ok.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

oh i've gotten some great plants from tubes. And from petco too lol. They have the tube ones and a giant plant tank where they keep an impressive variety of healthy plants.. almost bought some today but want to identify for sure first. 

funny story.. So yes while bamboo really honestly will not do well submerged.. That one plant that has gotten nearly all of us plant people at some point if we're gonna be honest here.. Actually even though it's not meant to be underwater or really even partially.. I have 2 that have done fantastic for 4 yrs in my tank while I have 2 that are potted as house plants and always look nearly dead lol (I wish I could recall its name). I figure it out when I bought it but I'm an experimental minded person...for those of you who don't know yet lol

Honestly Id expect after an aggressive large water change every day or two approach till it's down should fix this. I don't have but two java ferns (highly abused I might add) in my 72g tank and with my 80%water changes every couple weeks on that tank.. it stays at 10ppm nitrate sometimes 5.. and thats an overstocked tank with high bioload fish. about 12x filtration I must add though through 3 canisters


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Well I've done aggressive water changes before and it never stays down! Grrrr.... Wow I was always told to stay away from them *sigh* thanks guys! I'm sure I'm not always easy to put up with  i guess my petco isn't all that into the plant section :/ 

I know I shouldn't have but when I went to the lfs I bought the rainbows and the beta. It's just so far I couldn't resist. They all seem to be doing fine, but I'm keeping am eye on the female rainbow, I've noticed while spots on her but they sometimes don't appear so I don't know if it's ich. I also figured the beta was kept solitary a while anyways, and they looked just so happy and healthy in the store compared to petsmart, but I introduced them all slowly and they're doing fine and swimming.

Honestly I think the bamboo looks nice and my shrimp love it. The leaves look healthy, the stem is hard, I don't see what the fuss is about.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Ok now that I know I can get tube plants there's more variety I can get. So when my nitrates are down. (I put java moss in there the first time I went to the lfs and it all turned yellow and died and was a pain to find it all and get rid of it.) and remove the corral decor since my betta is tipping his fins and tail on it, and place 3-5 new plants! I have a good set up mechanically so I don't want to waste it!

I'll be testing tap today, I got. I got busy yesterday.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

There is nothing "wrong" with the plants in the tubes and in the aquariums. But they do carry plants like mondo grass, purple waffle and aluminum plants that are not aquarium plants. Also in the tubes most of them are aquarium plants but they are emersed plants and some will melt and not come back, some do. I got some of that hairgrass at petsmart in those packages and it was great. Good amount and ever thing. Just make sure it is actually an aquarium plant.
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## Super4Ever (Apr 3, 2014)

Sometimes you get a deal with those plants too. I know at Petsmart the tubes list how many plants are in each tube. However, many times when it lists 2 plants I often get 3 or 4 so it's basically like getting 2 for the price of 1.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Ok, tap water results:

Ph- 8.2
Nitrate- 0 ppm
Nitrite- 0 ppm
Ammonia 1.0 ppm

I'm guessing the ammonia part is not so great.. 





Agh, I was stupid again and didn't keep the rainbow fish solitary and turns out they do have ich. I put the 3 in the 5 gallon frog tank and started chemical treatment, I don't have enough left for the entire 30 gallon. So I'm just going to try raising the temp to 86 for a week and hopefully I can pass with this one, don't want the pleco dying again, or shrimp.


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## Super4Ever (Apr 3, 2014)

I had an ich outbreak and I did not treat with any medicine. Just do the heat treatment it works wonders.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Good, I was thinking 85-86 for a week?

I had a heat resistant strain once, eek!
I figured since the tank isn't too infested I'll try heat, although the three rainbows probably have in at a more advanced level, but not too bad. I can afford a 5 gallon dosage, my poor frogs always have to deal with these problems. My parents just don't want me to set up anymore tanks so I can't have a nice 10 gallon quarantine.


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## Super4Ever (Apr 3, 2014)

I actually did 88 for two weeks. Added a little salt with daily water changes as well.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

How big of water changes? I could only do a low dosage of salt, I don't want to harm the pleco. I guess 2 weeks would be Ok.


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## Super4Ever (Apr 3, 2014)

You can skip the salt. No need to harm the Pleco. If you don't add the salt just do 20% water changes every few days. Do you have an airstone? The increased temp lowers oxygen in the water so you will need one.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Yes on airstone, is the water I replace it with need to be the same temperature? Our water heater broke and we should be getting it replaced and fixed by my grandpa who is coming in today from out if state. 


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## Super4Ever (Apr 3, 2014)

I try to match any water being added to the tank as closely as possible. If not you risk shocking and potentially killing the fish.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

It should be fixed by tomorrow, the temp is at 86 now, I'll leave it at that and see if it's working. The treatment of the rainbows should only take 4 days but I'll keep them solitary while I wait for the other tank to be clear. Sad, I was going to add a couple rasboras and ottos but I don't have a solitary tank available atm then.


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm thinking maybe when I do water I might want to start adding a gallon to 3 gallons of RO water? Along with the tap? I used to use only RO water but that didn't work out so well when I started having to do 50% a day for the nitrates...

I think it'll help with my ph and maybe add less ammonia if that's even what's causing it.


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## Super4Ever (Apr 3, 2014)

If you're using RO water, are you adding minerals back into it? If you don't do that, I've heard that can cause some problems.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ya RO is pretty good, for cutting down on algae, cuz it has no nutrients. But I usually do it only in my reef tanks. Unless you have a lot of algae or a bloom of some sort just use tap in a freshwater tank, with some prime. Cuz prime detoxifies ammonia.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

I don't really have any algae, well some brown does appear occasionally.. But I have so many things that eat it. I'm thinking just a few gallons, along with tap. The ph is more of my concern, as is water hardness. No I didn't add nutrients back then, but they were fine XD

Prime.. Does that mean any conditioner or the bottle has to say prime on it?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Sechem (brand) prime (product) it is a the name.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Alright my seachem is prime, but I haven't opened it yet and am trying to finish up my API conditioner that came with another tank. Or do you think it's causing a problem and I should start using prime ASAP and find someone to take my API?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

I would use the prime now, cuz it detoxifies ammonia. Nothing is wrong with the api stuff, but it doesnt do anything with the ammonia.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Alright, and can anyone tell me or post a link on plant keeping, like trimming and hose things, not the big stuff? 

I've done a good amount of water changes now, I'll test the water in 2-3 days to see how it's doing.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Trimming and care is different for every specific plant. Just type into google "care for _______" and "how to trim _____" that is how I learn.
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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

That sounds good, I'll have to figure out what their names are again XD


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## Vpaw (Apr 21, 2013)

Alright now the results are:
Nitrate:
45 gallon- 20 ppm
30 gallon- 20 ppm
20 gallon- 10 ppm

What are some things I can do to keep the measures?


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