# Need advice on what fish to put together



## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm new here and new to the whole fish hobby.I do have 2 5 gallon tanks.One is a long 5 gallon.
I;m now looking at getting a 36 gallon bowfront.I have been researching fish ALOT and was wondering what fish i list will go together and how many of them to be happy.I would like to get all listed but not sure if they are all compatible.
Here is my list
Congo Tetra,Chili Rasbora,Scarlet"Badis",Sparrow Rasbora,Pheonix Rasbora,Zebra Rasbora,Killifish,Angel Ram,Boraras Micros,Clown Killifish,Celestial Pearl Danio,Rhinogobius Wui,Marble Hatchet,Sidthimunki Botia Loach,Ramirezi(Male) And my favorite Dwarf Neon Blue Gourami?
I already have a Dwarf Neon Blue Gourami,Panda Cory,Kuhli loach and 2 Dwarf frogs in my 5 gallon long.They all seem happy and in my other 5 gallon i have a Dwarf Red Gourami,2 small Kuhli Loaches, 2 Male Fancy Tail guppy's and a Killifish.
I will transfer some og those over to my 36 when i get it this week and when it's ready.
Any help on this would be greatly appreciated


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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

Ok first of the fish you litsed that you have guppies and frogs should be able to withstand the cycling process but half of your fish aren't very compatible. Guarmis and frogs are semi-aggressive while some of your other fish are community fish. This site has a good list of fish profiles and I suggest you read up before making any other fish purchases. Fyi I wouldn't put the guppies and the frogs in the tank at the same time as the frogs might try to eat the guppies. It will be much easier for you and your fish if you go with fish that naturally would live within the parameters of your water and by that I mean PH, GH (general hardness the measure of dissolved minerals in your water), and KH (Carbonate hardness the measure of dissolved carbonates in your water). Some fish prefer to live in hard water and some dont but this is not to say they wont just that they be healthier. Kh level is measured by degrees much like PH and it acts as a buffer to stabilize the PH, also if you plan on getting plants they use KH as they grow so if you dont have enough it can adversely effect the PH as they use it up


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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

FYI if you dont know your parameters you can take a sample to a chain LFS (local Fish store), such as petco, they will test your water for you free.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Blackfeet said:


> Ok first of the fish you litsed that you have guppies and frogs should be able to withstand the cycling process but half of your fish aren't very compatible. Guarmis and frogs are semi-aggressive while some of your other fish are community fish. This site has a good list of fish profiles and I suggest you read up before making any other fish purchases. Fyi I wouldn't put the guppies and the frogs in the tank at the same time as the frogs might try to eat the guppies. It will be much easier for you and your fish if you go with fish that naturally would live within the parameters of your water and by that I mean PH, GH (general hardness the measure of dissolved minerals in your water), and KH (Carbonate hardness the measure of dissolved carbonates in your water). Some fish prefer to live in hard water and some dont but this is not to say they wont just that they be healthier. Kh level is measured by degrees much like PH and it acts as a buffer to stabilize the PH, also if you plan on getting plants they use KH as they grow so if you dont have enough it can adversely effect the PH as they use it up


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

My dwarf frogs are smaller then my guppy's.The are the African Dwarf Frogs.They are in with my other Gourami and they get along great with eachother.They don't seem aggressive at all.I will read up more on the things u suggested.Thank you
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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

I know those tiny frogs don't seem aggresive but they can be. I had one that killed a goldfish twice it's size then proceeded to tear off chucks and eat them. I don't know, maybe I got the Ted Bundy of frogs but that made quite a memory


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Blackfeet said:


> I know those tiny frogs don't seem aggresive but they can be. I had one that killed a goldfish twice it's size then proceeded to tear off chucks and eat them. I don't know, maybe I got the Ted Bundy of frogs but that made quite a memory


Oh that's horrible:...I will just keep them in the 5 gallon then.I just want a beautiful tank with ALL happy tank mate's.I also work at the LPS so i get to see all the new fish coming in


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.:wave:

I second the suggestion to browse our profiles of those fish you mention. Info on compatibility is included, along with minimum numbers (some are shoaling fish that need to be in groups), minimum tank size, water parameters, etc. Second tab from the left in the blue bar across the top of the page; if the name is used the same in a post as in the profile it shades and you can click that. Compatibility has several important aspects to consider.

Byron.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Hello. I afraid your Dwarf Gourami needs a bigger tank than a 5 gallon. He should be in a minimum of a 10 gallon & preferably larger. In fact the new 36 gallon would be great for him.

A good rule of thumb is to decide what fish you either have or want really bad, and then stock what suits that fish from the list of what others you like that are compatible.

Kuhli Loaches go very well with Dwarf Gouramis but they should be in schools of a minimum 6 fish.

I've had Dwarf G's with Corys too and they go well together since the Corys prefer the bottom and the Dwarf prefers the top where he can breathe.

I would stay awy from the Killifish but you could definitely add a nice school of Rasboras, maybe even 10 of each of two kinds. Certain fish prefer the company of their own kind to feel secure. You should have a look at Lambchop Espei Rasboras as they are a bit smaller than Harlequins so you can get more of them. I also have a 36 gallon bowfront & you can fit a nice bunch of fish if you do it right.

Good luck


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ruskull said:


> Hello. I afraid your Dwarf Gourami needs a bigger tank than a 5 gallon. He should be in a minimum of a 10 gallon & preferably larger. In fact the new 36 gallon would be great for him.
> 
> A good rule of thumb is to decide what fish you either have or want really bad, and then stock what suits that fish from the list of what others you like that are compatible.
> 
> ...


I'm going to put my Gourami's in the 36 when i get it this week.I will also get about 5 more Kuhli Loaches.
What do you have in your tank?Why saty away from Killifish>I have on now and he does real good.I also want to empty my 5 gallon and do a dwarf Puffer tank.They are so cute


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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

Whoa there!! Hold your horses there sunshine. Unless you are putting all live substrate in here you have to let it cycle, meaning that you need to let the biological filter set up before you put a lot of fish in there even with live substrate you should wait at least a week to let things stabilize. Guarmis are sensitive and need a mature tank to live in. Guarmis really are not a good fish to cycle a tank with. Caution with puffers they are aggressive and need their natural food in their diet. Puffers eat invertebrates in nature, meaning snails, shrimp, crabs, and clams and fish too. Also puffers are normally brackish water fish.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

LOL....Actually Gouramis are good to cycle a tank.Alot of research on them said they are good cycling fish.I would let my tank run until it was all ready for a few fish at a time.I'm going to get all live plants for my tank this time also.I'm going to go with a sand bottom.I work as a supervisor at the LFS and the manager said sand can be hard to clean cuz any movement in the sand can go right into the filter and ruin it.Is this true?
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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> I'm going to put my Gourami's in the 36 when i get it this week.I will also get about 5 more Kuhli Loaches.
> What do you have in your tank?Why saty away from Killifish>I have on now and he does real good.I also want to empty my 5 gallon and do a dwarf Puffer tank.They are so cute


You can see my 36 gallon stock in my Aquarium under my nae. I'll upload pics, etc, when I get a chance. 

Personal preference would keep me from Killifish. I've also heard they grow real big and they'll eat anything that fits in their mouth, like maybe any Tetras, etc. Other folks swear by them...........the best bet is to do your research. Make sure they are compatible with the rest of the fish you have planned.

Sorry, I can't help with the Dwarf Puffers either, I have no experience with them.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> LOL....Actually Gouramis are good to cycle a tank.Alot of research on them said they are good cycling fish.I would let my tank run until it was all ready for a few fish at a time.I'm going to get all live plants for my tank this time also.I'm going to go with a sand bottom.I work as a supervisor at the LFS and the manager said sand can be hard to clean cuz any movement in the sand can go right into the filter and ruin it.Is this true?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dwarf Gouramis are awesome creatures but they've been overbred to the point of lowering thier immune system. Do some research on DGD, Dwarf Gourami Disease aka Indovirus. Poor water quality certainly doesn't help.

Three Spot or Blue Gouramis are considered a pretty good fish for a "fish in cycle" beause they're very hardy, can handle larger changes in their water chemistry and they breathe from the air via their labyrinth organ so low oxygen in the water is not as much of a problem.

I'm not sure of how much you know about cycling so I'll just give the basics:

Fish give off ammonia in their waste. Fish swimming in ammonia will die, regardless of how hardy they are. At very least you will be shortening their life span.

"Cycling" a tank is developing colonies of good bacteria that consume the ammonia turning it into nitrite. Nitrite is even more toxic to fish than ammonia, but the good news is another type of good bacteria converts the nitrite to nitrate, which is only harmful to fish in large amounts. We remove the nitrate by doing weekly water changes.

In conclusion: Ammonia > Nitrite > Nitrate > Water Change


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> LOL....Actually Gouramis are good to cycle a tank.Alot of research on them said they are good cycling fish.I would let my tank run until it was all ready for a few fish at a time.I'm going to get all live plants for my tank this time also.I'm going to go with a sand bottom.I work as a supervisor at the LFS and the manager said sand can be hard to clean cuz any movement in the sand can go right into the filter and ruin it.Is this true?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Live plants will consume some of the Nitrates, plus they look really good & give the fish some cover. I'm all for planted tanks. Try starting with plants that are considered low tech like Anubias and Java Fern.

I have sand substrate in 2 of my 3 tanks and they can ruin a filter if you don't do it right. Normally the filter intake is only about 4 inches from the bottom, but when you have sand you want it a bit higher than that so it doesn't pick up too much sand. Also, Corys & Kuhlis like to surf through the sand and that can kick up a lot of dust that gets into your filter's impeller. Since you're planning on Kuhlis for this new tank maybe it's best to use a larger grain sand or maybe a sand & gravel mix. The latter is good for holding down plants as well.

If you want to save a lot of money on your sand substrate, try playsand. It takes a lot more rinsing but it can be worth it when a 50 lb. bag is only about $5-6 rather than $40-60 for a bag of "Aquarium" sand. The biggest problem with Playsand is that it a bit more light & dusty, which might not be good for Kuhlis digging around.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you for the advice.I do water changes once a week.Right now my 5 gallon tank is at PH is 0.5,Nitrate is 0,Ammonia is .50(why?)Nitrate is 0.Starting to feed fish once everyother day instead of every day.My DG doesn't like that to much
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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

.5 ppm ammonia calls an immediate water change! In fact any ammonia reading over.25 needs a water change even when doing a fish-in cycle.

The pH reading doesn't make any sense, a typical pH reading is between 6 and 8. Try testing the tap water you use. Leave it out for a day if you can before testing it which will give you a more accurate reading.

You really need to test for nitrite also, because as you're doing a fish in cycle you'll see the ammonia level drop as the nitrite level raises. Water changes might need to be done daily to keep them in check.

I wouldn't really bother checking for nitrate at this point until your ammonia & nitrite levels consistently read zero.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Nitrate is 0..I just did a water change yesterday.Should I do another today?I just want the best for them
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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> Nitrate is 0..I just did a water change yesterday.Should I do another today?I just want the best for them
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again, you don't need to check for nitr*A*tes, but for nitr*I*tes. That as well as ammonia. Any reading over .25 ppm for ammonia requires a minimum 50% water change. Same for nitrite.

You really shouldn't worry about pH or Nitrate at this point.

What type of test kit are you using? I have the API Master Freshwater kit and it works much better than test strips.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

I also wanted to add that getting donor media from a fish keeping friend or local fish store will speed up your cycle significantly. It doesn't take much to cycle a 5 gallon tank either.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Nitrate is 0..I just did a water change yesterday.Should I do another today?I just want the best for them
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First, let's clarify the pH reading. As Ruskull mentioned, it cannot be 0.5, so did you mean 5? This is important for a couple of reasons, one being that if the pH is on the acidic side (below 7), then the "ammonia" is actually the less-harmful ammonium and not as significant. But if the pH is basic (above 7), then yes, do a 50% water change daily; if you use a conditioner that detoxifies ammonia (Prime, Ultimate, a few others) the water change can be alternate days since these products are effective for 24-48 hours.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

That's what I use also
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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I work at the LFS but just got into this hobby about a month ago.Still learning
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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

What Byron said is correct, I was just keeping as simple as possible. A 5 gallon tank is very small & a small bit of donor media from your fish store should jumpstart your cycle quickly. Using prime or similar will detoxify the ammonia long enough for you to stretch out your water changes.

This info will be even more important when you fire up that 36 gallon. I cycled mine using media from a well established 20 gallon that I was running. I still had a hectic water change schedule though because it's harder when you're going up in tank size. You can't simply take all the filter floss out of the other tank or that tank will no longer be cycled. It's recommeded that you take no more than 1/3 of the donor tank's media.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

What is Donor Media?We have never heard of it
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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

It's on the filter insert. Y'know, those cartidge things that look like they're made of felt wrapped around a plastic frame of some sort. Anyway, a used one of these will have a brownish stuff on it that contains much if not all of the beneficial bacteria that's supporting the tank's cycle.

Most of these hang on back style filters have 2 slots for these cartridges. What you do is take the older of the cartridges and cut it off the plastic part, cut that felt in half and put half back into the original tank it came from. Now take the other half & put it in a bag of the tank water it came out of. Bring it home & put it behind the clean new cartridge in your tank's filter. The bacteria will migrate to your filter's cartridge and cycle your tank in time, usually much faster than without the donor media.

If you have a sponge filter it's a bit more complicated I'm afraid but still possible. Fish stores usually have a big system with flat filter floss. In that case take the oldest one you can find that's still in use & cut some strips of felt to load into your filter.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

This is one way to seed the bacteria, but personally I would never use this from a fish store. There could be any number of pathogens especially if there is any type of central filtration water system as is common in fish stores today. There are a lot of protozoans occurring in fish presently, and these can often be dormant in the fish but easily spread to other fish weeks later. No new tank is worth the risk, when there are much safer methods available. After all, if one believes in quarantining new fish, then this is no different as it is for the very same reason.

Live plants is the safest, and most effective, and plants will certainly be welcomed by most of the earlier-mentioned fish. Then there are bacteria supplements; Seachem's Stability, Tetra's SafeStart, and Dr.Tim's One and Only are all live bacteria that will seed the tank.

Byron.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> This is one way to seed the bacteria, but personally I would never use this from a fish store. There could be any number of pathogens especially if there is any type of central filtration water system as is common in fish stores today. There are a lot of protozoans occurring in fish presently, and these can often be dormant in the fish but easily spread to other fish weeks later. No new tank is worth the risk, when there are much safer methods available. After all, if one believes in quarantining new fish, then this is no different as it is for the very same reason.
> 
> Live plants is the safest, and most effective, and plants will certainly be welcomed by most f the earlier-mentioned fish. Then there are bacteria supplements; Seachem's Stability, Tetra's SafeStart, and Dr.Tim's One and Only are all live bacteria that will seed the tank.
> 
> Byron.



Actually it was the Phosphate i though was the PH....duh....I will check it again tomorrow.
Going to Fish World in Minneapolis tomorrow(can't wait)Just to look at what i can buy when my tank is ready
I'm going to get my tank tomorrow...I have the Nutrifin Tap water Conditioner,Nutrifin Cycle and Safe Start to start my new Aquarium.Is this all i need?How long do i need to run it before i add new fish?


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

What would be the BEST filter and heater for the 36 Gallon?
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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Actually it was the Phosphate i though was the PH....duh....I will check it again tomorrow.
> Going to Fish World in Minneapolis tomorrow(can't wait)Just to look at what i can buy when my tank is ready
> I'm going to get my tank tomorrow...I have the Nutrifin Tap water Conditioner,Nutrifin Cycle and Safe Start to start my new Aquarium.Is this all i need?How long do i need to run it before i add new fish?


If you can get some plants too, especially floating, and with the SafeStart, you set the tank up and put in the first few fish. The plants grab the ammonia and the SafeStart seeds the bac teria to get what the plants don't. Just make sure the fish are few, and not overly-sensitive. Some fish should never be put in newish tanks but only established tanks.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> If you can get some plants too, especially floating, and with the SafeStart, you set the tank up and put in the first few fish. The plants grab the ammonia and the SafeStart seeds the bac teria to get what the plants don't. Just make sure the fish are few, and not overly-sensitive. Some fish should never be put in newish tanks but only established tanks.[/QUOTE
> 
> Bryon...What are the plants you have in your aquarium?They are beautiful.Do u have sand or gravel?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Byron said:
> 
> 
> > If you can get some plants too, especially floating, and with the SafeStart, you set the tank up and put in the first few fish. The plants grab the ammonia and the SafeStart seeds the bac teria to get what the plants don't. Just make sure the fish are few, and not overly-sensitive. Some fish should never be put in newish tanks but only established tanks.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Are your fish listed there too?
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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Are your fish listed there too?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. The tanks are under the "Aquariums" tab below my name on the left of this post.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Byron is right, it's never 100% safe to use donor media from a fish store, it's much better to get it from a friend's tank. Assuming of course that you can trust your friend has a healthy tank. 

Absolutely nothing beats a fishless cycle which is done by dosing the tank with ammonia on purpose before you add any fish. Unfortunately it's also the slowest method.

A fish in cycle can work but you need to start with just a couple very hardy fish, like maybe Danios or something similar. Neon Tetras for instance don't do well in new tanks, only well established ones.

Oh, and adding plants is a great idea because they consume ammonia as well as nitrates.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> What would be the BEST filter and heater for the 36 Gallon?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a Rena Filstar XP3 on my 36 gallon, which is totally overkill. I already bought a Rena XP2 to replace it with so I can use the XP3 for a 55 gallon I'm planning.

These are canister filters that store under the cabinet so you don't have that big honking noisy hang on back type power filter that most people buy. I paid about $90 or $100 for the XP2 and that's the filter I would recommend. Let me know if you want a link to buy one for less than the pet stores sell them for.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ruskull said:


> Byron is right, it's never 100% safe to use donor media from a fish store, it's much better to get it from a friend's tank. Assuming of course that you can trust your friend has a healthy tank.
> 
> Absolutely nothing beats a fishless cycle which is done by dosing the tank with ammonia on purpose before you add any fish. Unfortunately it's also the slowest method.
> 
> ...




Ruskull i would love to see your tank.Have any pics yet>I will look into the Rena XP2.Is that better then the Marineland?I don't want a loud filter.Just a good quiet one


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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

FYI- the reason ammonia isn't a bid deal if your ph is below 7 is because ammonia combines almost very quickly with a hydroxide (-OH) molecule to become ammonium which plants use as a nutrient. 
Fish live longest, healthiest and look best when they are living in water closest to their ideal range in ph, temp, water hardness, and salinity. Fish stores usually keep fish in 7 ph water and this is usually fine since the fish aren't there long term. Keeping fish outside of their water requirements will stress some to weaken their immune systems which will leave them ore open to illnesses of all kinds. Other fish will tolerate this some to some degree outside their range but will have shorter life spans and will not breed.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ruskull said:


> I have a Rena Filstar XP3 on my 36 gallon, which is totally overkill. I already bought a Rena XP2 to replace it with so I can use the XP3 for a 55 gallon I'm planning.
> 
> These are canister filters that store under the cabinet so you don't have that big honking noisy hang on back type power filter that most people buy. I paid about $90 or $100 for the XP2 and that's the filter I would recommend. Let me know if you want a link to buy one for less than the pet stores sell them for.


I would like that link..Do you have anything on the back glass of your tank?I heard they make neat 3D background?I just don't want it to look cheesy


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I would like that link..Do you have anything on the back glass of your tank?I heard they make neat 3D background?I just don't want it to look cheesy


The best background for an aquarium is one that you don't notice. And here, plain black construction paper works and is very inexpensive. I use this on all my smaller tanks. It is not shiny (this accents the back wall) and the dull black makes the tank look deeper, and the fish and plant colours stand out more.

Having said that, the newish backgrounds that go in the tank and are like walls of wood or rock are OK, but very expensive.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> The best background for an aquarium is one that you don't notice. And here, plain black construction paper works and is very inexpensive. I use this on all my smaller tanks. It is not shiny (this accents the back wall) and the dull black makes the tank look deeper, and the fish and plant colours stand out more.
> 
> Having said that, the newish backgrounds that go in the tank and are like walls of wood or rock are OK, but very expensive.



I like the construction paper idea.Just tape it to the back of the tank?I'm also going to go get play sand today and my tank..Does it come in different colors?I like the lighter colors.What mixture do you use again?I just dont want it to ruin my filter.Is the Rena XP2 a good filter?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I like the construction paper idea.Just tape it to the back of the tank?I'm also going to go get play sand today and my tank..Does it come in different colors?I like the lighter colors.What mixture do you use again?I just dont want it to ruin my filter.Is the Rena XP2 a good filter?


I use basic playsand, Quikrete Play Sand, it is "tan" which means a mix of black/tan/gray/white. Very authentic, it resembles the sand in many Amazonian streams.

Keep the filter intake about 5 inches above the substrate and sand won't get in the filter. Rena XP is a good filter, i have the XP3 on my 115g.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> I would like that link..Do you have anything on the back glass of your tank?I heard they make neat 3D background?I just don't want it to look cheesy


The place I bought mine is Monster Pets and they no longer have them available, but this place has them for almost the same price & with Free Shipping.

I've bought a few items from these guys & I've never been disappointed.

Rena Filstar XP Canister Filter Aquarium Canister Filters

You could easily get away wth using the XP1, aka XPS but for a little extra you get more media baskets and a more powerful flow.

The Marineland C Series canisters have a decent reputation as well but I've heard of the tray gaskets being a bit of a pain in the butt.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Byron said:


> I use basic playsand, Quikrete Play Sand, it is "tan" which means a mix of black/tan/gray/white. Very authentic, it resembles the sand in many Amazonian streams.
> 
> Keep the filter intake about 5 inches above the substrate and sand won't get in the filter. Rena XP is a good filter, i have the XP3 on my 115g.


I have the Quickrete Playsand in one of my 20 gallon tanks, took a lot of rinsing but saved me a lot of money too! 

As far as backgrounds I like the "underwater look" myself but my next tank will have a black background & I'll try your construction paper idea, thanks. 

I'll also post up pictures of my tank eventually, with their full stock, filtration, etc.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Here's a fairly recent pic of the 36 gallon tank:


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm at a LFS now and the man helping me said "do not use sand"It won't produce any oxygen and plants can't grow in it?I'm so confused..Help me
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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> I'm at a LFS now and the man helping me said "do not use sand"It won't produce any oxygen and plants can't grow in it?I'm so confused..Help me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
That's ridiculous. The pic I posted of my 36 gallon shows some Bacopa Caroliniana that grew from tiny little sprouts as well as Wisteria, various Crypts, Stargrass, Hygro Polyseperma, Swords, etc. ..........the results speak for themselves. Since when does gravel "produce" oxygen anyway? :hmm:


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Better pics of my 36 gallon bowfront:


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Your tank is beautiful...Is that black sand?
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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> Your tank is beautiful...Is that black sand?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you! Yes, it's black sand with some black gravel mixed in. I'm slowly removing all the black gravel, a little with each water change. I originally added the gravel to help hold down the plants. Now it's not necessary but I have to admit, it looks more natural with sand & gravel together.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Yeah....Did I get it at a fish store?A 20 lb here is 32.99
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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Yeah....Did I get it at a fish store?A 20 lb here is 32.99
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Playsand will be less money, a 50-pound bag is a few dollars at Home Depot or Lowe's. Sand is fine if you have live plants. Five of my seven tanks are playsand.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Yeah that black sand in my tank is very expensive, It's Stoney River Brand and I think I used about (7) 5 lbs bags or so plus about 15-20 pounds of black gravel. Much of the gravel has been removed, I'd say around half.

Sand is great if you plan to have Kuhlis or Corydoras because they literally dig through it with their faces. Ssome types of gravel can damage their barbels.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes I do..I like them alot.Have 4 now.I will look more into sand then.Didn't know this would be so hard.thank you for helping me so much
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

No problem. Building your tank is frustrating sometimes but it's also fun to get it just the way you want it, and then change it all around again!


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

One more question...I bought this aquarium on CL.It's like brand new but had saltwater fish in it.What do I use to clean it all out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> One more question...I bought this aquarium on CL.It's like brand new but had saltwater fish in it.What do I use to clean it all out
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's actually a question I don't know the answer to, maybe Byron can answer? I'm positive you can still use the tank but I'm not sure what to clean it with. I've heard of using bleach to clean it with but *DON'T DO IT* until someone else confirms this & which type of bleach to use.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok...Headed to Lowes to look at sand
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Do I want to use Silica sand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Do I want to use Silica sand?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, but having said that, silica may be present in playsand. Look for the Quikrete Play Sand, nothing else. I've been using this for over 2 years now and have had no issues with silicates (which can cause diatoms or brown algae), water chemistry (it is inert), etc. And the corys love it.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> No, but having said that, silica may be present in playsand. Look for the Quikrete Play Sand, nothing else. I've been using this for over 2 years now and have had no issues with silicates (which can cause diatoms or brown algae), water chemistry (it is inert), etc. And the corys love it.


I went to Lowe's and they only had the tan play sand.It turns darker(i read)when it get wet.So i went with River Run sand that it white.Looks cream color not white.Will this be ok?
Also can you help me out with the filter to use?Should i use the Rena XP2 or the Marineland Bio wheel Power Filter Penguin 200.My mng at the LFS said to go the Marinland.He uses those and hates the canister.To each his own tho?I know Ruskull uses the Rena.What are your thoughts?Money isn't a issue.I just want the best for my fish and tank


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ruskull said:


> Thank you! Yes, it's black sand with some black gravel mixed in. I'm slowly removing all the black gravel, a little with each water change. I originally added the gravel to help hold down the plants. Now it's not necessary but I have to admit, it looks more natural with sand & gravel together.


Do you use the lid the 36 gallon came with?I was thinking about getting some glass cut for it and getting a LED light.Doesn't live plants need good lighting?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I went to Lowe's and they only had the tan play sand.It turns darker(i read)when it get wet.So i went with River Run sand that it white.Looks cream color not white.Will this be ok?
> Also can you help me out with the filter to use?Should i use the Rena XP2 or the Marineland Bio wheel Power Filter Penguin 200.My mng at the LFS said to go the Marinland.He uses those and hates the canister.To each his own tho?I know Ruskull uses the Rena.What are your thoughts?Money isn't a issue.I just want the best for my fish and tank


It's your choice in sand, but I am not partial to white or light sand. Fish are uneasy over this, as light reflects off it and this is unnatural. The playsand is "tan" and it is light enough, but not so much that the fish seem bothered, and it does replicate what is in Amazonia. If yo haven't opened it, you could exchange it for the playsand. Up to you.

If you intend plants, forget the biowheel. A canister like the Rena that is the recommended size for the tank is sufficient. For your 36g tank, you want the Rena XP1 which is rated for tanks up to 45g. This will be more than adequate. I have a Rena XP3 on my 115g and I like it; I have two Eheim canisters on the 70g and 90g, and while it can be argued that they are better made and will last longer (my two have been running non-stop for 15 years now with n o problems, so that is certainly reliable) I went with the Rena XP3 three years ago mainly because i couldn't buy Eheim locally, and Rena was rated second to Eheim. It may not last as long, too early to tell, but it certainly does the job. One problem with Rena is the hose length is only five feet; Eheim have longer hoses, but that is a concern more for 4-5 foot tanks where you want to reach the far end.

Byron.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok great...I will take the sand back and buy the filter tonight online.I will have live plants.My friend has alot she wants to give me.I have never had any live plants.Sand will hold those down?Any special thing I need to do to put them in the tank?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Ok great...I will take the sand back and buy the filter tonight online.I will have live plants.My friend has alot she wants to give me.I have never had any live plants.Sand will hold those down?Any special thing I need to do to put them in the tank?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This thread is getting long, but I expect we;ve discussed light and liquid fertilizer, so that's it.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I've noticed there is API Rena Filstar XP1 and just a Rena XP1.Which one should i buy?


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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

I have a couple questions. I let my wife chose the substrate and it turned out to be a course quartz gravel. I want to replace it with play sand. How fast can I do the switch? 
Second is I have seen colored play sand, is it aquarium safe? I don't plan on using it as it is just as expensive as live aquarium sand just curious


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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> I've noticed there is API Rena Filstar XP1 and just a Rena XP1.Which one should i buy?


I believe they are the same thing


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Blackfeet said:


> I believe they are the same thing


Yes, they should be.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Blackfeet said:


> I have a couple questions. I let my wife chose the substrate and it turned out to be a course quartz gravel. I want to replace it with play sand. How fast can I do the switch?
> Second is I have seen colored play sand, is it aquarium safe? I don't plan on using it as it is just as expensive as live aquarium sand just curious


Second question first, some coloured gravels are coated and will lose the coating over time. I had this happen once to black gravel that began to turn blue as the black came off. Also, a natural sand/gravel works best if you want a natural looking tank. Any colour of substrate aside from brown/black/tan will not look "natural" and will distract from the colours of the fish and plants. Several members who have started out with coloured gravels frequently tire of them quickly, because they are so "obvious."

To the first question, it is not difficult to change a substrate (I've done this many times) but it is always best to do it with the fish removed to a temporary tank [or another tank you having running]. I have a 20g tank that I keep as a spare and use it for this; unless you have huge fish, a 20g works in most cases. Depending upon the size of the display tank, I would set aside a day to do this, and start about half an hour after the lights come on to give the fish a chance to fully "wake up."


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> Yes, they should be.


Yes they are..Just bought one from Drs Foster & Smith for $80.00.Sorry for all the questions you guys but I just have no clue and y'all have helped me out so much.Thank you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> Yes they are..Just bought one from Drs Foster & Smith for $80.00.Sorry for all the questions you guys but I just have no clue and y'all have helped me out so much.Thank you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So which model did you go with, the XP1 or XP2 ?


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ruskull said:


> So which model did you go with, the XP1 or XP2 ?


I went with the XP1..This should work right?It says up to 45 gallons


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

The XP1 is more than good enough for your 36 gallon tank. Drs. Foster & Smith is a reputable online source also, never heard a bad thing about them.

Let us all know how it works out. I originally had a Marineland Penguin 200 on my 36 gallon but it was messy to work with, especially with the water changes. When you have a canister style filter, you simply shut it off, do your water change, then turn it back on. Depending on how many fish you have, you shouldn't have to clean the canister more than once a month and some people even go a lot longer than that. Sometimes I shut it off to feed them so the currrent doesn't shoot the food all over the tank! Good luck!


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you very much..How otter should I clean the sponge filter in both my 5 gallon?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> Thank you very much..How otter should I clean the sponge filter in both my 5 gallon?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I rinse my sponge filters from my 10g, 20g, 29g and 33g tanks at every water change. Sponge filters are very effective at trapping particulate matter.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Byron said:


> Yes, they should be.


They are the same. The old names were Rena Filstar XP1, XP2, XP3, XP4. The new names are API Rena XPS, XPM, XPL, XPXL I believe. I think the older models were made in France & the newer models are made in the USA. I also think I heard someone say that API purchased Rena or something like that............

In my humble opinion the old model numbers are better because it's the number of media trays that the unit has.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I could only find the new
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I can't seem to get my tank regulated..It reads PH AT 7.6 Ammonia at .50 Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 0.I did a water change this afternoon and use Nutrifin tap water cond.And Nutrifin cycle.Then a guy at the fish store yesterday sold me some Erase-CL(chlorine remover).Not sure what to do???


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

*Any recommendation on a good heater?*

I have a 36 gallon Bowfront and need a good hearter for it.What are your thoughts?


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Killies have different water requirements, i believe, compared to the rasboras and gouramis. That may be why you are discourage from including them. 

I like espei (aka lambchop) rasboras quite a lot, but I would resist to temptation to put two schools of anything in there. One decent sized group of one species. Don't get greedy! 

Small doesn't always mean docile, and sidthimunki loaches are an example. They need to be in groups (some sources say more than six individuals) but are not the mildest of the loach clan. I honestly have not seen aggression problems with YoYo loaches in all the time I have kept them. I now have only two in a 29, which I believe is really too small a tank to suit this fish for the long haul. They are slow growing but get quite large eventually. . .anyway, choose loaches carefully. Read and research first. All are somewhat distict in habit, sociability, size.

As gouramis mature, all kinds of behavioral difficulties can arise that were not an issue early on. I would be cautious here. I would attempt a single true male-female pair of gouramis in this tank, or only a single male. But you may "get away with" putting the two dwarf gouramis in without incident. Monitor combinations like this and never assume it will last happily ever after!

for what it's worth.


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

Bluydgrl said:


> I could only find the new
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are the same anyway, it's just the model numbering system that's changed.

You should start a new thread that details your progress, with pictures if possible. It becomes a great resource for others who are planning to do the same and you can always look back in your thread to see how you've progressed.

If you decide to do a "progress thread" please post a link here.............thanks, Ruskull


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## Ruskull (Nov 27, 2011)

sidluckman said:


> Killies have different water requirements, i believe, compared to the rasboras and gouramis. That may be why you are discourage from including them.
> 
> I like espei (aka lambchop) rasboras quite a lot, but I would resist to temptation to put two schools of anything in there. One decent sized group of one species. Don't get greedy!
> 
> ...


Excellent advice right here ^

I think you have the exact same tank as my 36 gallon & I use the Aqueon Pro Series heater, I think I have a 100 watt version. I like these heaters because they show a green light when they're on but not heating, and a red light when they're actually having to heat the water. If I could do it all again I'd buy the Hydor in line heater because it goes in the tubing from your canister filter instead of being yet another thing to try to hide in your tank.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I can't seem to get my tank regulated..It reads PH AT 7.6 Ammonia at .50 Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 0.I did a water change this afternoon and use Nutrifin tap water cond.And Nutrifin cycle.Then a guy at the fish store yesterday sold me some Erase-CL(chlorine remover).Not sure what to do???


This thread has so many sidetracks on different issues it is hard to follow this and that. So can you give the current data on this tank, which presumably is now running (assume this is the 36g)? Any fish in it? Any live plants? Water temp?

The Nutrafin water conditioner is fine, you don't need to add the Erase stuff as well, less chemicals the better. Cycle is also fine.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Byron said:


> This thread has so many sidetracks on different issues it is hard to follow this and that. So can you give the current data on this tank, which presumably is now running (assume this is the 36g)? Any fish in it? Any live plants? Water temp?
> 
> The Nutrafin water conditioner is fine, you don't need to add the Erase stuff as well, less chemicals the better. Cycle is also fine.


Might be as well to start a new thread on this issue alone, as someone suggested.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Ruskull said:


> Excellent advice right here ^
> 
> I think you have the exact same tank as my 36 gallon & I use the Aqueon Pro Series heater, I think I have a 100 watt version. I like these heaters because they show a green light when they're on but not heating, and a red light when they're actually having to heat the water. If I could do it all again I'd buy the Hydor in line heater because it goes in the tubing from your canister filter instead of being yet another thing to try to hide in your tank.


I just looked into that inline heater.Has great reviews.I want to purchase one.Do you think i shouls get the Hydro ETH 200 WATT FOR 12MM &1/2'hose or the 16mm & 5/8 hose..It's still not set up by the way.Just got the canister filter today.Ordered the Glass canopy for it and the mng at the fish store said i should go with the Marinland Reef Capable LED lighting system for a 36-48 wide..What do you think on both?


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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> Ok great...I will take the sand back and buy the filter tonight online.I will have live plants.My friend has alot she wants to give me.I have never had any live plants.Sand will hold those down?Any special thing I need to do to put them in the tank?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sand or gravel really doesn't hold plants or anything else down. Normally people wedge plants into rock or wood crevices, tie them to something heavy with string or a rubberband, or use plant weights (soft non-pure lead weights) wrapped around the stems o keep them down. As for additives some plants require a very low phosphate liquid fertilizer, such as Seachem's comprehensive liquid fertilizer titled flourish, added to the water and some need a substrate fertilizers about 1/2" directly below the plant, such as API's root tabs. I do not suggest using root tabs, as they are too expensive. I have found several sources on line that sell comparable products in much greater mounts for the same price. I suggest using an anti-snail bath to wash them unless you want snails, specifically pond snails which are considered aquarium pests.


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## Blackfeet (Jul 23, 2012)

Bluydgrl said:


> I just looked into that inline heater.Has great reviews.I want to purchase one.Do you think i shouls get the Hydro ETH 200 WATT FOR 12MM &1/2'hose or the 16mm & 5/8 hose..It's still not set up by the way.Just got the canister filter today.Ordered the Glass canopy for it and the mng at the fish store said i should go with the Marinland Reef Capable LED lighting system for a 36-48 wide..What do you think on both?


First I agree with Byron it is time for a "new tank set-up" thread. 
Second if could afford a canister filter and an inline heater I would defiantly get one and for the same reason as Ruskull. 
Third there is really no need for the canopy. It insulates heat and thereby accelerates evaporation causing the need for more frequent top offs. Unless it is for keeping fish from making a mess from splashing or jumping out of the tank.
Last the light, it should work fine and for hte plants as well but some of the LEDs may blow and you are not able to repair it without soldering a circuit board, and it is roughly twice as expensive as a good t5 flouresent fixture


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> Might be as well to start a new thread on this issue alone, as someone suggested.


I'd like to start new threads but i don't see how?Just says new post.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Bluydgrl said:


> I'd like to start new threads but i don't see how?Just says new post.


When you log on to TFK, the home page is a list of all forum sections. When you click on the section name, example "Freshwater Aquarium" or "Aquarium Plants," it brings up the list of all threads in that section, from latest active to least. On that page, click the "New Thread" blue button at the top left corner of the first page of threads and your post will be a new thread.

When you are in a thread, clicking "Add New Post" will post in that thread, which is what you've been doing here.

Byron.


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## Bluydgrl (Aug 20, 2012)

Byron said:


> When you log on to TFK, the home page is a list of all forum sections. When you click on the section name, example "Freshwater Aquarium" or "Aquarium Plants," it brings up the list of all threads in that section, from latest active to least. On that page, click the "New Thread" blue button at the top left corner of the first page of threads and your post will be a new thread.
> 
> 
> Ok...thank you
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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