# Fin Rot?



## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

So i have oscar that has very tiny sections of fins missing, ive read a little on fin rot and think this may be what he has? either that or from fin nippers in the tank. does anyone have any good pictures of the start of fin rot what it looks like? and if he does havde it what is the best way to treat it? my tank is still in the middle of cycle and i know some emds will kill the bac.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

forgot to mention he is eating well bold vivid color and is pretty active, but im just worried with the small sections missing if its start of fin rot? none of the other fish have any signs of what his fins do


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

any help?


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

It might be better if you can post a picture here of the fish.

If you google image fin rot you're going to see all kinds of pictures that may or may not fit what you're describing.

If the edges look black(ish) or rotten, it's a good possibility.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

Romad said:


> It might be better if you can post a picture here of the fish.
> 
> If you google image fin rot you're going to see all kinds of pictures that may or may not fit what you're describing.
> 
> If the edges look black(ish) or rotten, it's a good possibility.


what is the best way to treat and how contageous is it?


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Can you isolate the fish and do daily water changes? Pristine water is going to be important for healing. 

In early stages, people have used Melafix with good results but if more advanced, you'd have to get a gram-negative med like Maracyn II or Tetracycline.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Another thought, the edges of the fins don't necessarily have to look black - they can look spongy or whitish too. I said black because that's the color I've seen predominantly in some of those betta cups in the chain stores.

But they will definately not look like a clean break or tear in the fin. Hope that makes sense.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

Romad said:


> Another thought, the edges of the fins don't necessarily have to look black - they can look spongy or whitish too. I said black because that's the color I've seen predominantly in some of those betta cups in the chain stores.
> 
> But they will definately not look like a clean break or tear in the fin. Hope that makes sense.


he doesnt have anything fuzzy on him and none of the other fish have this, hes still super active and all seems well. is it possible it could just be a case of some fin nipping? how long should i watch him before medicateing? i dont really have anywhere to put him other then the 55 with all the other fish. and i know most medication is poisonus to the fish its just a amtter of poisioning the illness before the fish dies while poisoning the fish at the same tiem.


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

I agree with all Romad has said, and it *would* be best if you had any way to get an image up for us to look at.

Fin rot is one of those funny things that can present in a variety of ways, darkened edges around the torn edges is one, but it can also look more like frayed edges - basically, the edges of the fins are disintegrating, so fin-rot won't generally look like a clean break - while a fresh nip or an injury will.

Even if the injury was caused by a nip or a tear, fin rot is something to be on the lookout for, as it is a bacterial infection that can easily affect a torn fin if it gets the chance. Fungal infections are also likely to take advantage of a situation like this, so even if you don't see it now, keep a close eye on things as they heal. Also be on the lookout for any redness in the fin.

The _GOOD_ news is that, given a low-stress environment and clean water, most torn/ripped/nipped fins will heal up very quickly on their own. Keep the water extra clean, and keep a close watch on the injury, and if all goes well it will heal up in no time and medication shouldn't be necessary.

I would highly recommend that you park yourself across the room from the tank with the overhead people lights out for a while and watch your tank. Keep very still, and the fish will forget about you - if there's a fin nipper in the bunch, you'll find him when they forget that you're there and resume normal behavior - this could take an hour or so, so be sure to have a comfy seat! Another option is to set up a video camera and leave the room, then scan for anything odd. If not a nipper, look to the ornaments in the tank, is there anything that the fish could have snagged or torn his fin on?

If you do see signs of fraying at the edges of the fins, or darkening, redness - or anything other than a clean break in the fin, it may be worth medicating. Finrot isn't something that is contagious, necessarily. Rather, it's a bacteria that is always present in our tanks, and doesn't generally cause a problem until poor conditions, stress, or a torn fin, allow it to get a foothold and cause trouble. . .

I hope this helps, and that you figure out what caused the injury and that it heals up very quickly for your poor little friend!


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Not enough info on tank to do anything but guess.
If it is fin nipping from African cichlid's you chose to place with the Oscar, then med's will have little effect and symptom's may (Prolly)reappear.
Have used product Quick cure for mild finrot as per direction's.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

there definately is some nipping going on and being a oscar in a african tank he doesnt match the water conditions, i didnt find this out till after the fact of course. i did some reading and found out exactly what you guys said. it sets in with stress when fin nipping is present (im assuming he is stressed being in ph outside of his natrual) however he eats swims and shows great color so its almost liek he isnt showing signs of stress. i read that melafix and some aquarium salt helps clear up mild cases which is what he has. i dont have any pmats or anything in the aquarium to be hu8rt by the meds but i know how bad meds are for fish. im thinking treat it as a ich infection as far as the salt goes since the water is around 80 anyways being a "african" tank. it seems to be getting pregressively worse and i want to stop it before it gets any more serious. still puzzled how he is eating swimming normal and showing great color if he is stressed?


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

just got off the phone with the shop that sold me the guy to ask them their opinion on the situation, you will never belive what they said! "its not uncommon for our fish to arrive to us with soem sort of disease and fin rot has been very common in our tanks and shipments in the past few months" wow... im totally speechless at this point i explained the situation and everything to them and asked if i could return him for a store credit. hes been in my tank for over a month which is past their "gurantee period" im stuck with him and his finrot. keep in mind this is the same store that told me a oscar would be fine in a african tank. what should i do here? should i medicate the whole tank since everyfish i have is from the same fin rot store? what will the melafin do to the benifital bac in my filter? since fin rot is a bac infection wont the mealafin kill all the bennifical bac too? what a dilemma 

Jakcs aquarium and pets is the store btw. yes i should have done my homework beforehand but this is just ridclous.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Grrrrrrr!!! Well at least they admitted it. 

If it were me, I wouldn't medicate the whole tank unless you see symptoms of rot on the other fish. The best thing you can do for the whole tank is to keep that water super clean. 

Are you able to isolate and treat the fish that has the obvious rot? If advanced, do the recommended dose of the antibiotic with at least a 25% water change daily. You should see improvement in a few weeks but I'd keep it isolated for at least a month. If I didn't say it before, I do tend to be a bit overly cautious


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

yeah im super frusterated right now that they would even sell sick fish and know they are doing it! found my pleco after lifting some rocks and he has it really bad, i hardly see him during the day obviously and closer look my jewl has it mildly too.... will the melafin kill the benifitall bac in the tank? should i float the filter pads in a bowl of water with some food while i treat?


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Melafix is a very gentle med and helps in aiding in the healing of torn fins and injuries. Depending on how serious the infection has gotten, it may help, as could salt, but keep an eye on things. If the bacterial infection has progressed too far, you may need something more powerful than melafix to get rid of it. Unfortunately, I'm not comfortable enough with these fish to advise here, though I'm sure someone will be able to help out.

Finrot is unfortunately not uncommon to find in fish shops, and the absolute best treatment for it, and most illnesses, is keeping the water clean and the fish in their ideal parameters. 

You mentioned that you're now certain that the Oscar is being nipped at by the more aggressive Cichlids in the tank. This could also be the case with the Pleco who is also showing symptoms. As heartbreaking as it may be, the only real solution I see here is to move or rehome the fish that are being nipped, or the fish(es) that are bullying to another tank. As long as these fish are getting their fins bitten by the others, this condition will return again and again, and it isn't really fair to any creature to force them to live in an environment where they're constantly under attack.

I started out in a similar fashion, bad advice from a fish shop left me with a mix of fish that in no way could live happily together. Over time I've managed to separate them, some to other tanks in my home, others were rehomed/given away, and still others were returned to the store. Though I didn't get any store credit for them, either, I felt better knowing that I had at least given them a chance at living a happier life under someone else's care. . .

Looks like you have some tough decisions to make. . . I hope you find a way to help these guys rest and recover, and into tanks better suited for them. Best of luck!


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

thanks so much! theres a marcin 1 and 2 antibiotic that is reccomended for more serious infections. from pictures thats ive found on google these guys have it very mildly and have atleast 3/4 of their fins left. ive seen pictures where they are almost totally non exsistant so i dont think im to the maracin step yet. going to start the melafin treatment tommorow and ill keep the post updated with how things turn out. im thinking i bought the fish with it and havent noticed since i didnt really know what it was. never really dealt with this before as i keep my tank water clean enough to drink. as for the ones getting nipped ive had fin nippers and all that before but never fin rot. i can clearly see the white areas around the fin where the bac is actively attacking the fins and never had this before. my nipped fins on fish have always healed themselfs i think the guys just had it so badly from the store it has just stuck with them and the on going nipping without treatment hasnt helped matters.


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Poor things. . .good luck with clearing it up - please do keep us posted!


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Best treatment is frequent water changes and fin's will heal nicely without med's, assuming you either increase territorial landscape,provide more places for fish to retire to,remove fish or fishes that clearly won't co-exist due to differing water chemistry need's, aggression level's, and perform perhap's ,twice weekly 50% water changes till condition improves.
Small African's can and do get along for some time, but once they reach sexual maturity (4 month's or approx 4 inches),then thing's get rougher for subdominant fish.(Many don't stay small)
Subdominant fish (cichlid's),, when kept in number's,, often sport varying degree's of fin injury due to the pecking order which is ALWAY'S changing in African tank's where Males challenge males for said dominance, or right to breed with particular female's of like specie's, or closely related, which present's all new problem's with unpredictable beahivor,development in cross bred species. 
In regard's to the Oscar,, to get most out of this species, they would welcome soft to moderately hard <12 DGH pH around 7.4 which would not suit the African's for long as biological process in the tank over month's will favor the Oscar more,,,and the African's less.
Is usually the case, when water chemisrtry does not fall in optimum range for both species or several species being kept.
One or the other,or a few more than other's, are much more prone to stress related weakened immune system which in turn,,,makes the fishes much more suceptible to parasitic,bacterial,pathogen's.
Is primary reason why med's don't often work, or when they app0ear to work,,,symptom's often return over and over, and folk's get frustrated.
Much oF the time,,problem's are self inflicted. People aren't familiar with fishes need's,can't readily identify sick fishes,keep fishes outside their desired ranges for GH,pH,temp, and select poor tankamtes with little to no research before hand.
Not trying to be coarse,,just offering some truth's for consideration.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

great reply there 1077, you have very vaild points with the non compatable fish. however they are all showing signs of the finrot and the store openly admitted to it being a problem in their store. i am familiar with the africans and their needs not so much the osacr. i have seen fin nipping before and know what it looks like. from the hundreds of pictures i have found online of fin rot i can clearly tell the two apart. they have the whiteish area around the fins and the fins are deterorating all like they would with fin rot. i am 100% sure this is fin rot and i can gurantee its not water quality as i would drink the water from my aquarium. yes i know it can be brought on by stress as far as the oscar goes but he came home with it and i just relized it when it became a little more severe. im going to keep him in there and ride things out. kinda forced to know that my 3yr old daughter is in love with him. (she HAS to hand feed him everyday) as far as the water becoming favroble to the oscar in the long run i also agree but there are ways to counteract this and keep a balance. 

but anyways today i started the melafix treatment it says to treat everyday for 7 days in a row and then w/c and add carbon back into the aquarium.we feed the fish to have something to go by as the treatment goes to see if their eating decreases or w/e pre treament and they all ate well ill keep a day by day on the thread to keep everyone updated that may be following.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

DAY 2 fish ate well and are still as active as they have been, hard to tell if any improvement has been made yet.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Something I dont think Ive seen mentioned yet - one of the big reasons why you should not mix NW and African cichlids is because of the difference in diet. Many African cichlids develop problems when they are fed a diet too high in protein, and if I recall correctly oscars need a more protein rich diet.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

jaysee said:


> Something I dont think Ive seen mentioned yet - one of the big reasons why you should not mix NW and African cichlids is because of the difference in diet. Many African cichlids develop problems when they are fed a diet too high in protein, and if I recall correctly oscars need a more protein rich diet.


i feed them 3 diffrent foods not jsut a single source so its all balanced. but anyways

day 3 fish still acting fine and eating great notice pleco coming out more to socialize he usually hides with the lights on


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

MoneyMitch said:


> i feed them 3 diffrent foods not jsut a single source so its all balanced. but anyways


How do you make sure that the right fish get the right food? "Balanced" is relative, and all too often misunderstood. An improper diet can create a great deal of stress for a fish, so it might be more applicable than you think. In any event, it's not something that you should just dismiss.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

feed each type of food on diff days, so they all eat the same food on said day. yea they all eat their fruits and veggies but they also get a servering of some protiens too. thats how i have always done it and have never had any issues. this isnt my first aquarium or first run with africans. only the osscar is new to me.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

You can probably spot feed the oscar meaty foods pretty easily.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

day 4, the white areas on the fins are gone, fish eating great and also being social when we walk up to the tank. looks like its on it way out. 3 more days of treatment untill w/c and carbon time. would also like to add the medication smell is filling the entire room. its not nessicarly stinky but you can definately smell it as soon as you get near the room


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

lol, I love the smell of teatree, personally! Glad to hear things are looking up!


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

day 5-6 of treatments, sorry didnt post yesterday just forgot lol. but anyways pretty much all sighns of the whiteish slime around the fins are gonee. however the fins are not healed back to normal. after treatment going to do w/c about 30% every 3 days just untill the fins grow back to normal. then i will go back to my 50% once every other week. (i like my water clean) im also sure this is going to helkp the fins grow back.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

day 6: everything going very well, tank is a bit cloudy though (think thats a unrelated bac bloom) all the fish are very active and eating great. the everyones fins are completely clear of the white goo and all fish fins are healing very fast. the only concern i have right now is the pleco. i dont seem him much during the day but caught a peek at him today. hes missing about half of his tail fin (no white goo on it) so he will probobly take longer to heal then the others. any tips besides frequent water changes to aid in fin healing from fin rot?


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Glad that things are looking up over there, the bacterial bloom *could* very likely be associated with the use of the Melafix - it has the bad habit of being seen as a food source by bacteria in the tank. Not a big deal, it'll clear itself out, but be sure to add extra oxygenation into the tank, as the extra bacteria will be using the available oxygen, too, as with any bacterial bloom. . .

I don't know much about Plecos, so I can't really help you there. I do know that it is considered safe to use this med for two weeks instead of one, if it's necessary. If you have a tank that you can put him in for QT to rest and relax, you might want to do that. It would keep you from having to treat everyone else unnecessarily, and if the Plec is having a tough time with a fin-nipper, give him a chance to fully recover. . .

Clean, clear, stable water parameters is really the best thing that *I* know of to treat things like this, and what you're already doing is the only actual medication that I'm comfortable enough with to recommended. Perhaps others can help you there - but it sounds like at this point you've got the bacteria part kicked, and it's really just a matter of letting the fins heal themselves, and preventing it from coming back. The water changes WILL do this, along with keeping things low-stress in there.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Depending on the severity of the fin loss, it may not grow back to what it was.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

thnks so much for your help through this, been alot easyier with the hand holding ^^ but i would do the same for anyone else on here


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

last day of treamtment, along with the last day of treatment also put on the new lights, fish didnt liek ti at first and all went to hide. but since have started to come out again. everyone still eating and all fins are grown back cept that one pleco but he is looking better then yesterday. i only have maybe a day or two left of doses left in the bottle so i may just finish that out then do the w/c. suprised how fast the fins grow back after the bacteria is gone.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

so i went ahead and treated again today, the plecos fins are about 3/4 of where they should be and healign fast everyday. everything is going well in the tank but think im going to treat untill the bottle is gone. i only have a day or two left worth of meds, and no sense in saving it as it wont be enough for another treatment if i need it. plus it helps grow fins (says so on the bottle)


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