# Ich Treatment Blues



## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm a beginner, I just joined this forum (hi!) and this is my first brush with ich. 

A little info before my questions:

60 gallon tropical freshwater tank (4'X2'X1')
Substrate: light colored sand
Planted with moss ball, scarlet temple, anachris, onion plant and corkscrew
Occupants: 
2 2" clown loach (yes, we will get a larger tank before they need it)
4 black skirt tetras (we are planning to increase to 6)
5 raspora hets
7 zebra long fin danios
0 neon tetras (but yesterday we had 5)
Last readings (taken today - between 2 15% water changes): ph-7.5, alkinity 120, hardness 150, nitrite .25, nitrate 15, ammonia 0
temperature: 80/81F

4 days ago we noticed some ich (after adding some new fish from Petsmart). We don't have a quarantine tank, but we just got supplies to set one up and we will use it in the future. So far we have treated with Kordon Rid Ich+ (malachite green and formalin) for 3 days (after removing the carbon filter). We vacuumed (our sand!) and did two 15% water changes. We treated the new water with a combination of Top Fin water conditioner and API stress zyme+. Last night we saw no signs of ich on our fish.This morning, 3 neon tetras were dead. We left the house for a little while and when we returned, 2 more neons were dead. The rasporas don't look as active as they usually seem and one of our clown loaches is hiding. I'm worried that he/she isn't doing well. 

I think we've got 3-4 more doses of Rid Ich+ to go, based on advice I've gotten in the chat room, the instructions on the bottle and things I've seen in articles online. 

Question #1: Does that sound right? I'm worried that it is the treatment that is now stressing our fish, but I don't want to stop treatment before the life cycle of the ich is complete b/c I know they are only vulnerable to medication while they are in the life stage where they are seeking a new host. At 81F, the life cycle should be about 4 days I think, but some spots in our tank don't seem to get above 80F. 

Question #2: Is there something else I can do to protect the rest of my fish during this treatment? I am worried that the neons were the "canary in the coal mine" and that tomorrow more fish will be dead. I don't want to do another water change b/c I just did a 15% today.

Question #3: When should I replace the filters during the treatment - after the last dose? Now (because we can't see any more ich)?

Question #4: Is there anything I should do with my live plants? Oh, and my moss ball has been floating since we vacuumed. What's up with that?

Question #5: I've heard I should run my tank ornaments (some rocks, a couple structures and a rock with a hole in it) through the dishwasher. I've also heard that I should not do that. I've also heard that I just don't need to do that because I'm treating the tank with chemicals, so they should be fine. Any opinions?

Question #6: Is there any way to test to see if our ich is gone besides just waiting to see if it comes back?

Anything else I need to know?

Thanks!


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Okay first, let me say that neons are extremely sensitive to ammonia and nitrite and should be reserved for mature tanks only. I suspect the nitrite is what knowked the legs from under them and that, paired with the Kordon (if it's copper-based it will be slightly toxic to fish but not as much as it will be to the ich) probably did them in.

Secondly, it is IMPERATIVE that you keep mediating even when you see no ich. When the ich is on the fish (in those little white cysts) it is protected from the medication by the fish's skin. When the ich parasite drops off the fish and into the substrate to breed, that is when it is most vulnerable to the meds. So in essence the only time the meds can work is when you don't see any ich on the fish. So DON'T stop the medication/replace th efilter until you have finished the treatment completely.

Likewise when the ich falls off the fish you can suck some of the parasites up by vacuuming the substrate.

Thirdly, when you are doing water changes, remember you are taking some of the meds out and they need to be replaced when you put new water in. 

Now for the rest of your questions in no particular order

-Since you are treating the tank there's not much point in washing the ornaments. People advise against washing any fish stuff with soap (and hence the dishwasher would be a no-no) but if you ever want to sterilise anything, pure bleach (no scents, fabric softeners, etc) is a good bet. Just rinse well.

-Live plants... just keep them in. They might be a little sensitive with the copper but its not worth removing them and possibly 'rescuing' some parasites that may be clinging to the roots, etc. The moss ball... I believe they float and sink as they consume nutrients or release gases... something weird like that. Nothing to do with the copper I'm sure.

-If you want to ensure the welfare of your fish there are some things that will help them rough out treatment:
1) Add 1 TBSP of aquarium salt per 5 gallons. Not only does it help kill the parasite, it also discourages bacterial growth, lessening the risk of secondary infection. It also replaces electrolytes much like fishy gatorade.
2) Keep the tank dark os as not to unnecesarily atress the fish and let them rest a little.
3) Keep up with water changes to get the nitrite under control. Nitrite is more toxic than both ammonia and nitrate.
4) Turn the filters on full blast or add an air pump to get some extra aeration... most medications really strip the water of oxygen. An air pump is also really useful to have on hand in the future if for some reason you have to medicate a fish again or separate a fish.


And yes the only way to know that your ich is gone is to wait and see... bu tthankfully most treatments are overkill so if you follow all the instructions there is little likelihood any will come back.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Just wanted to add my 2 cents as I also keep clowns and have had to treat for ich. I have successfully used Kordons RidIch+ so you have the right meds. Clowns are senitive to medications due to the fact that they are scaleless. I have always treated my tank with Kordons RidIch+ at 1/2 the recommended dose of medication. Clowns can also be sensitive to salt concentrations in the water so if it were me (and it's not) I wouldn't combine salt and meds in a tank with clowns. 

As Kelly states, it's important to continue treating the tank for three days after the last visible white spot has been seen. For me that meant treating my tank for 14 days. 

Here's an article you might find of interest as far as ich and its life cycle:

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

Good luck with your treatment!!


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

I agree, very important to read up on the ich life cycle so that you can understand how to get rid of the bug and at what stages it is most vulnerable.


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## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

Thank you! That Skeptical Acquarist article rocks. We did a 50% water change last night before we medicated and we plan to do the same tonight. I guess we should skip the salt because of the loaches and reduce the medication to a 1/2 dose for the duration of the treatment? Although that is a little scary; I must admit. I hate to have this come back again! We set up our quarantine tank and are getting the cycle going so that we can avoid this in the future. Thanks again for your help! Much appreciated!


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

I have always used the 1/2 the recommended dose. That may be why I had to treat for a total of fourteen days but I'd rather do it that way than lose any of my fish. Besides my loaches, my tank also has otos and a pictus cat- all scaleless fish and all very sensitive. The best thing about ich is that its highly treatable. I'd rather have ich three times over than some of the other internal parasites that are out there and nearly impossible to get rid of.


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## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

Okay. We'll do a half dose tonight. Thanks!


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## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

Sad news - even though we did a 50% water change last night before meds, we lost a loach and a danio this morning. One more day of treatment is scheduled. Just did a 25% water change in hopes that we can keep with other loach alive.


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## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

I did water testing this morning when we found the bodies but things weren't that out of whack: Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 7.5. I guess they were just too weak from the earlier full med doses and so they couldn't take last night's dose.


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Aaah! Sorry about the fish  Good luck on the rest of treatment though!


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## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

Thanks Kelly. I feel guilty


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Tell me about it I suspect that I killed one of my goldfish with Melafix this morning  I like to think that he went peacefully in his sleep. Normally I don't get attached to my fish but the larger guys are easy to notice a personality in.


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## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

Tell me about it!


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm really sorry you lost your goldfish, Kelly. Also sorry to hear about your fish loss too, sbetsy. These things happen and we always feel bad about it. I know we all do our best so we can't beat ourselves up about it. I hope the remainder of the treatment goes well and keep us up to date.


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## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

Well last night was the last day of treatment and I'm terrified to look in the loach house to see if I still have a little friend in there. Lost a danio (I couldn't believe it) yesterday afternoon. Yesterday I did a 25% change in the AM and a 50% change in the evening before I dosed the tank. I did testing yesterday and things looked even better than before (no nitrites, even lower nitrates) so I'm sure it's the meds. Sigh....


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Ouch... I've never had any personal experience with Kordon Ich meds. I wonder if they're just really harsh... I have used Coppersafe by Mardel in the past (not for ich) and it didn't harm any of the fish!


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## SilersAngryMeow (Mar 2, 2010)

Well? How did it go?? *fingers crossed*


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## sbetsy (Apr 11, 2010)

Well, we lost the loaches. And a raspora. It's really sad. I learned my lesson about the quarantine tank for sure. No visible ich on anybody. Anybody left in the tank that is...


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm really sorry to hear this. :-(


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## TerryLee (Apr 14, 2010)

Talk about ick, it's the worst nightmare for every aquarium owner. So far, I have never heard about the chemical solution mentioned but if I were you, I would just follow exactly the directions as specified. There are some advice which I randomly came across while doing researching (like this) but generally most advice would say that salt treatment is sufficient.

Neons would be the most vulnerable and if you have an extra tank, it's best to separate them. Usually if I perform treatment using chemicals, I would turn off filters just to ensure that the medication doesn't get removed. Create aeration by using air pump. For the ornaments, there is nothing wrong to rewash but I would avoid using bleach in case that might contaminate and carry over to fish tank.


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## zoragen (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm fighting what looks to be a losing battle with my betta. I tried Jungle Clear for 15 days - did nothing.

Then went for Super Ick Clear (malachite green). 2 treatments almost killed him.

I had already raised the temp & added more salt.

So I gave up on meds - put the filter back in - upped the salt to 2 teaspoons/gal & I'm still waiting & watching.

It's been 23 days since I started treatment. I think it started just before I went on vacation - so it had a week to really get going:-(

I can't believe he's still alive. Such a little fighter

He's still eating so there's a bit of hope. But I don't think the poor little guy can fight too much longer.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

zoragen said:


> I'm fighting what looks to be a losing battle with my betta. I tried Jungle Clear for 15 days - did nothing.
> 
> Then went for Super Ick Clear (malachite green). 2 treatments almost killed him.
> 
> ...


If it were me (and it's not) I'd do a huge water change, removing the salt and meds in the process. Slowly adjust the heat until you get the tank to 86 degrees (bettas can handle the heat, IMHO) and wait it out until three days after the last visible white spot had been seen. Ich can't reproduce or survive in temps higher than 85 (at least that's what I've gathered from all the info I've read and received)

A short but informative read on ich and its life cycle:

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml


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## zoragen (Sep 25, 2009)

I had to euthanize Fins last night. Felt like killing.

I used clove oil to put him to sleep - then vodka to kill him.

We buried him in the garden.

In looking back over my notes on the tank (I started a notebook when I set up the tank) - it must have been the new plants I put in the beginning of Feb.

Although I did a very mild & quick bleach dip - I was thinking about snails - it's the only thing new introduced to the tank.

So I will now quarantine any plant before putting them in the tank.

He had a fungus also. At first I thought is was another ICH spot - then I noticed the fuzz - & it looked like it was making a hole in his head.

When he tried to swim he listed to the side & couldn't lift his head to eat.

So now I'm staring at an empty tank:-(

Which will remain empty for about a month - till I'm sure all the parasites are dead.

The plants got a bit stressed during all this - probably the salt - so I will concentrate on getting them healthy.


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