# UPDATE Siamese Fighting Fish not getting any better!



## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

I taken the advice given and I am on the 4th day of treatment. The fish is still very active and eats if it was not for the huge belly you would think nothing was wrong. 

the lump is now so big it makes mevery sad to see. is this cruel or what? I don't think I have the heart to euthanize him, more so because he so active.

updated picture taken this morning is below.
Full story here: http://fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11166

#update picture#

what the hell is it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Like I had said in the other thread, there are a few possiblities of what this is. The other thing that I am concerned about is a possible internal bacterial infection. I need to look up something more on the meds, but I will come back and post as soon as I have more info for you. Hang in there, as long as the fish is acting normal, hope is not lost. If the fish was truly suffering you'd surely know it. I know this is hard and sad at the same time, but please don't give up. I find it admirable that you are still trying to help him when most people would have put him down by now simply out of frustration. 
I'll be back...


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

Thanks again. the attitude is that its just a fish, but he has character and I have become very attached to him. I would really like to save him if a can.

as I said, his skin seems to be stretching (not flaky scales) its like a balloon is been slowly inflated inside his stomach. the swelling is even on each side of his belly. He is pooing as normal, and eating. I am on day 4 of the treatment with no visible signs of improvement, yet.

1) this has been happing slowly around 3 weeks now, but he first started showing signs around 6 weeks ago. I assumed he was just getting fat, his face also looked a little fat around that time.
2) he eats once a day in the morning around 3-4 balls
3) he has no problems staying a float or moving around (at the moment).
4) apart from where he is stretched he has no unusual skin tones
5) i have also tried a gen tonic which treats a number of common bacterial infections with no success (this was before I started the new treatment)


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I'm not familiar with gen tonic... can you give me a list of the ingredients in it? Is there a link somewhere online that I could look at to find out info about it? Can you tell me what company makes it?
Keep in mind that not all bacterial medications will treat all bacterial infections. Most of the common meds for bacterial infections will treat external problem, but not internal. Because of the betta's sensitivity to many of the common meds, it's a little harder to find something to safely treat for this problem. I will stick with you and do all I can to help. Sometimes it's just a matter of time, patience, and dilleigence to find the actual cause of the problem. Fish diseases can be very difficult to diagnose, doing it in this fashion where I can't examine the fish makes it that much harder. 
Best of Luck to you and the fish both!


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

Liquisil General Tonic (interpet) "reduces background levels of bacteria"


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I have sent off an email to interpet, hoping to find out what the ingredients are in this Liquisil General Tonic . From everything I have seen online about it, I can find nothing about it that would lead me to believe this could be useful in treating an active infection in a fish. This appears to be some type of water treatment to help control levels of bacteria and such in the aquarium, which is a big difference than treating a sick fish. I'm waiting to see what interpet can give me for a list of active ingredients.

As for what to do for your situation, the medication I'm going to suggest is called Furazone Green.... which is a combination of Nitrafurazone and furadolazone. This is sort of harsh for a medication, but I think your fish's condition warrants it. Besides treating the tank (follow all directions of treatment) I would suggest treating the food. Take a small amount (5 days worth) of food and put it into a small zip lock baggie or glass container, add a very very small amount of the furazone green to the food (the furazone green should be a powdered medication) and give the medicated food to the fish once/day for 5 days. 

When treating the tank, 2 notes... first, if you read the directions you will see you'll only treat the tank water every other day for a total of 3 treatments. Even though the water is only being treated every other day, continue the feeding of the medicated food every single day for the full 5 days... and 2nd, when you mix the medication, use a small disposable cup or glass container (something you won't intend to use for food or drink for human consumption) and measure the powder into the container. Add a small amount of tank water to the cup of medication to completely dissolve the powder *before* putting it into the tank. Once the powder has dissolved, then dump this into the tank, rinsing the cup/conatiner in the tank water at same time. The furazone green *will* stain your water, so when medicating is finished you will need to do water changes and add carbon back into the filter.

Please complete the current treatment, the new medication can be mixed in safely. Between these 2 medications, I would expect to see some type of relief soon. If you notice any big changes in behavior or if more symptoms appear, please stop using the meds, do a 25% water change, and PM me for help. I have never seen a betta react badly to the furazone green, but there can always be a first time. 

If you have questions, either post them here or PM me at anytime. I try to check my inbox at least once/day, sometimes more.
Best of Luck to you!!!


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

thanks again i will keep you updated.

i have been calling around and so far can not find any local shops which sells Furazone Green. i have a few more to try otherwise i may have to buy online which but time is short i fear. will let you know.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

If you need to order online I have found it in a smaller pkg for you here:
http://www.aquaticbliss.com/3035/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=128&products_id=932

I hope this helps.


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

i have called everywhere local, no one can get hold of it. i have ordered some online but its coming from the US so may take sometime weeks even!

however i was recommended this http://www.aquariumsuperstore.co.uk/mall/interpetantiinternalbacteria.asp

which i can get hold of now, worth trying????

please advise, thanks


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Honestly, without knowing the ingredients, nobody can say whether it would be safe or even work.... 

The big thing I hate about interpet products is that they don't have a list of active ingredients. Not all meds are safe for all fish, which is something that company doesn't seem to recognize or warn people about. There are a few other companies out there who do the same thing, and I stay as far away from their products as can be. 

I remember once when Tetra came out with a new product and people began using it to replace water changes (I think it was Easy Balance). I argued with Tetra reps for quite some time about it after many of our customers came back with major problems like tanks crashing and fish dying in large quantities. I'll tell you what I said to the Tetra reps about that... "when you can provide me with a product that means I no longer have to flush my toilet, then I'll suggest it to my customers... until then, NO WAY! 
I tell you this because I want to make it clear... the companies that put these products on the market are primarily concerned with 1 thing... making money. Any company that hides its active ingredients on its products makes me wonder... and also leaves me assured that I can't suggest using it because there's no way for me to know if its safe to use. If you decide to try these products the risk is entirely yours, and I can't assure that your fish would survive. Things like copper, formaldahyde, malachite green can be all harmful to a betta. If one of these ingredients should turn up in a med you use, it could easily kill the betta quickly. 

The decision is yours, but if it were me, I'd wait for something I know I can trust.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Sorry for the length here, but just another note about that interpet product number 9... 
I notice that the product info states it will treat 500 liters or a tank with a specific dimension to it... how can you dose a tank without knowing the number of gallons or the amount of meds to put in per gallon (or liter)? This product makes me very very nervous, and I have a hard time believing it's claims. I know of maybe 1 or 2 meds on the entire market that could be considered safe for "all aquarium fish"... like Melafix.... but again, without active ingredients for this interpet product, there is no way to know what is in it. It would be very easy to overdose a specific medication this way, which can be lethal.


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

thanks for the heads up, i had no idea. makes you think!

will just wait for that stuff to come.

in the mean time i have been feeding him frozen fish food called Daphnia, it seems to make him poo like crazy which i am sure can only help. he does not eat many things so this makes a nice change.

will keep you posted PS he iis still getting bigger


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I see no problem with the food, but... I would alternate them, only one per feeding, but switch them off. The healthiest thing for your fish is as much variety in his diet as possible, to be sure he's getting enough of everything he needs for nutrition. Good nutrition is important for a healthy immune system. 

I agree with your choice to wait for the meds, and I am concerned about him getting bigger still... but don't give up hope yet. If this is an internal bacterial infection, the meds should help pretty quickly. When the bettas experience those internal infections it causes fluid buildup... which should subside and begin to relieve itself once we find an effective treatment.

I wish you both the best of luck, I only wish there was more I could do to help you both.


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

you have already been a big help.


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

i am sorry to keep posting, just one last question. i was told by one place i called that Kaynamycin or Furanace would be my only chance. do you know anything about these meds?

i wont go out and just try anything, but worth posting here.[/i]


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

forget it sorry, just Google'd, they are a type of fish antibiotics not even sure that you can purchase without a prescription guy does not know what he talking about.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

sparky300 said:


> forget it sorry, just Google'd, they are a type of fish antibiotics not even sure that you can purchase without a prescription guy does not know what he talking about.


 :shock: Hahaha a prescription for fish meds? Really? What do people take their fish to the vets often?


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

Is because they are a form on antibiotic which in the UK is a controlled, prescription only, animal or human. Why because antibiotics become less effective the more they are used.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

sparky300 said:


> Is because they are a form on antibiotic which in the UK is a controlled, prescription only, animal or human. Why because antibiotics become less effective the more they are used.


Antibiotics are responsible for most resistant strains of bacteria and virus.:shake:


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

Unfortunately things look like they maybe taking a turn for the worst. His growth is around the size of a ping pong ball now! It is affecting him lots, he now just seem to float around. he can even move his fins because of it. 

He does takes air every once and a while and still eats. I don’t think he will last much longer.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Sorry to hear that. This looks really yucky though... Maybe it's time to put him out of his misery?


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

His actual belly had split open a bit! It had got to the point today where it was just too cruel. How he was still swimming around I have no idea!

I needed to do it quickly and painless. One of my finrot meds active ingredient was phenoxyethanol we read that this would be quick. Placed him in mix of water 5cm and 10ml of the above he died in about 3 seconds. It was very, very quick although he seemed to be panicking for a second or two. 

One of the hardest things I have had to do but for the best I think. 

Just wanted to say thank you for your help and information supplied.

PS none of the other fish are ill this illness only seemed to affect him well I am keeping my fingers crossed as don’t want to have to do that again.

PPS, i did a lot of research on fish euthanasia and i found the info below a lot of help the reason i went for phenoxyethanol 
http://books.google.com/books?id=SA...ts=5yWQ-8aLWo&sig=o0vWM5lagjvZGD14O3LooqJaink


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## SST (Nov 17, 2007)

I'm so sorry. That's such a tough situation to be in.

Take care....


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