# Complete newb 30 gallon reef



## n1zjd

Well today I made the plunge into saltwater. After a couple of hours at my local Saltware Aquarium shop and several hundred dollars later Ive got a 30 gallon aquarium setup in my living room. At this point I dont know what to expect since the owner of the saltwater place didnt recommend I try ANYTHING under a 75 gallon aquarium to begin with!

My original intention today was to try starting up a 10 gallon nano reef but after talking to the owner today, and not willing to give up entirely, I bought a 30 gallon. I know I have LOTS more to invest into this project in the future but I feel its a start and I can move up from here. Heres what I got today,

30 Gallon aquarium with standard lighted hood (I know its not enough lighting and will be improving this in the near future!)
Aquarium Stand
2 HOB filters (I know, Ill get a skimmer soon!)
1 Power head
1 Heater
Red Sea Marine Lab test kit
Hydrometer
30lbs aragonite
20lbs live sand
9lbs live rock

Questions? Comments? Only thing I ask is that you dont criticize me to hard. I know Im a newbie but Im a quick learner and intend to make this work. I plan to make a DIY canopy soon and upgrade the lighting as well as making a DIY sump/refugium. Cheers


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## Pasfur

Did you purchase the HOB filters, or did you already have them? If you purchased them, is it to late to return them? They provide no benefits to a marine tank, and actually can cause the water quality to worsen by trapping organics, resulting in rising nitrates and a depletion of carbonates.


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## n1zjd

They actual came with the used tank that I purchased. I have one hooked up right now with nothing inside of it whatsoever just to assist with mixing the water that I just mixed today. So I have them now even if I dont use them. Also, I just found out the tank is a 29G High not a 30. I was hoping you would stop by Pasfur as you always have answers for us newbs to saltwater.

Can you point me to any good resources to read up on what I should expect in the coming weeks? Right now all I know is I have a tank full of saltwater with some live sand and live rock. I know, this doesnt sound promising right? I will learn I promise. Tomorrow I will test all water parameters so I can continue to monitor them until the tank is ready for CUC.


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Right now all I know is I have a tank full of saltwater with some live sand and live rock. I know, this doesnt sound promising right?


Honestly, if everybody would just start with live rock and live sand, then everything would be so much easier. I can't think of a better way for you to get started.

I would leave one of the hang on filters running empty, just for water circulation. This also gives you a place to put a bag of activated carbon if you want. I just throw a bag in my sump. 

You can use the other hang on for your quarantine filter. You will need to get this quarantine tank in place within the next 2 weeks. A 10 gallon, bare bottom, with a heater and the hang on filter, will be all you need. You should be able to pull this off for about $20. You will need to slightly modify the hang on. Post a picture of the hang on so I can give you some ideas.

Over the next couple of weeks you can expect to be extremely frustrated because I will keep telling you every day that it is not time to add livestock. ;-) You will see some growth on the live rock, and hopefully will see copepod and amphipod populations begin to thrive and spread. I suggest looking at the same spot in the sand bed for about 5 minutes until your eyes adjust and you begin seeing the little things that you did not see before. After you learn to recognize them, you will see them easily. You want these populations of micofauna to really have an extended time to flourish without predators in the tank, such as hermit crabs, snails, and fish. 

In about 2 weeks you will see the diatom bloom hit. It will hit almost overnight, a brown algae that covers everything. It will go away almost over night as well, usually between weeks 3 and 4. You can add a small portion of your CUC when you see the diatom hit. Keep in mind, your tank size will only support 5 or 6 hermit crabs and 3 or 4 snails. The LFS will try to sale you far more than this, but you don't need it.


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## n1zjd

Thanks once again. I will post a picture of the HOB tomorrow for you. Nah, no getting frustrated here, not that kind of person. Believe it or not I would be content with a tankful of liverock and coral forever :-D But do eventually want a clownfish, but no other stocking plans other than that. Right now Ive only got a cheap hydrometer but plan to purchase a refractometer soon, as well as the rest of the testing supplies Im going to need.

Right now I only have the means to test pH, Alkalinity, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. So Ive still got plenty of purchases to make. I dont trust the hydrometer I have now. Heres what things look like right now. Cheers










BTW, is that sand bed ok or should I get another 20lbs of live sand? Im obviously going to purchase more livee rock...

Edit: The small HOB is an Aqua-Tech 10-20


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## n1zjd

Ok so I have a couple questions that are important I get answers to, 1) Does my sand bed look ok or should I purchase another 20lb bag of live sand to make it deeper? 2) With regards to a QT tank, does it have to be cycled? 

Like I said, Im very patient so no plans for adding livestock with the exception of CUC when the time is right, but I would like to get my QT setup and 'established' if thats required. Cheers


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## Pasfur

Your sand bed looks fine to me. I wouldn't add more sand.

Yes, a Q tank needs to be cycled. I generally "seed" a sponge in my display and then transfer it to the Q. This topic comes up daily, so I posted a detailed thread on the subject:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...s/saltwater-setting-up-quarantine-tank-35693/


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## n1zjd

Awesome dude, thanks alot. Ill keep you posted on the progress. Right now Im searching online for supplies. Ive found the skimmer I plan to purchase based on one you suggested in another thread and looking at lighting options because the standard hood that comes with a tank isnt going to get me very far into the world of coral. Cheers


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## Pasfur

What skimmer did you decide on? I often make suggestions based on the livestock a member says they want to keep. What are your long term plans with the tank?


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## n1zjd

Super Skimmer with Needle Wheel - Up to 65 Gallon | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

I dont have much for plans at this time. This is all new to me. All I know for sure is there will be a couple clownfish and the wife had her eye on a shrimp at the LFS. Believe me I will do my research before considering anything. Other than that, coral. Any and all I can sucessfully keep in my aquarium.

Edit: If you dont think that skimmer I listed will do a good job at what I have described Ive also got my eye on this one which you have posted in another thread before as well,
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4392+13924&pcatid=13924


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## Pasfur

You are actually a little different case than most, because your biggest concern is coral. If you are satisfied with soft corals, then the CoraLife model will be fine on a 30 gallon tank. But if you really want to expand your selection of corals you might want to consider a more efficient skimmer. Soft corals are not overly sensitive to organics in the water, but as you advance into SPS and others, the rapid removal of organics becomes important. Increased lighting is also necessary in most cases.

This being the case, lets get OF2F, Wake, or someone with more coral experience to jump in here on the lighting conversation. If we can create an acceptable stocking list of corals based on your lighting, then we can at that point make a final skimmer decision. I will reach out to those guys and watch for their response.


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## n1zjd

Cool man, thanks for all your help. As Im sure you have probably noticed, I am on a fairly tight budget. At least right at this very minute. Income tax will be in soon and then I should be able to do what I want. Based on my lighting RIGHT now, I would say coral is out of the question. BUT, I will be upgrading lighting.

I was thinking that maybe for a starter light upgrade I would go with something like this so I can get my feet wet into the world of soft corals, Coralife S/W T-5 Double Strip Light - 30" - 247PetShop.com

With plans for something like this in the future after I gain more experience, Aquaticlife T5 HO Aquarium Lighting System 4 T5 HO 2 Lunar - 30 in. | T5 Lighting | Lighting Systems | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com Mind you, these arent decision but rather examples for you, or anyone else who views the thread who can help me out with my goal. A DIY canopy with a MH could actually probably be done cheaper than the last light I listed. Once again, these are just ideas that Im throwing out there.

Also a recommendation for a protein skimmer would be great.

Cheers


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## n1zjd

Alright heres what I came up with during testing...

SG 1.022 (I will be raising this today to 1.025)
Temp 77F
PH 8.4 with liquid test kit from Red Sea Marine Lab - 8.21 from digital test pen I have....

Alkalinity - Normal 1.7-2.8
Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0.1 ppm
Nitrate - 2.5 ppm


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## Pasfur

When using the Red Sea alkalinity test, you should consider a "normal" reading as a time to add buffer. It is frustrating that this kit does not give an exact number, but if you look at the color and see a hint of green, then I personally consider this under what I'm aiming for. I aim for a light blue to solid blue color. 

Keep in mind, you have to test calcium in order to understand the alkalinity result. Knowing your alkalinity alone does not give enough information to make proper adjustments. You want to keep Calcium between 400 and 460ppm. 

I posted more detail on alkalinity and calcium here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...calcium-testing-important-every-marine-33079/

For a skimmer, I think the Coralife skimmer would be acceptable if you are on a tight budget. You will probably find that you want to upgrade in the future, and I would prefer to see you start with something alone these lines:
AquaC Remora Protein Skimmer with Rio 800 Pump
You should add this prefilter box for surface skimming:
AquaC Surface Prefilter Box

The prefilter box is what makes the Remora much more efficient than the Coralife, so do not spend the money without buying the prefilter box as well. I think you will be happier with this unit, and for the extra $100 in the long run it will really pay for itself.


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## n1zjd

Very cool. Then thats what I plan to get! Yeah Im not nearly satisfied with this test kit. A link to a proper test kit available online that you would suggest using would be much appreciated. I may be wrong with my understanding of this here but it sounds like the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate test kit that I had for my freshwater setup would have sufficed? Either way, I think we can both agree I wasted some money here on this cheap test kit. Ill work on improving this as well as picking up a calcium kit.

They have another companion kit that went with this one, for testing Calcium and some other elements that I cant quite remember right now. But yeah, what do you use for a test kit? Cheers

Oh BTW, there was a 'buffer' that came with the test kit, should I add some as per directions? This stuff is called success buff and says to use 20 drops per 15 gallons. Should I go ahead and add some 35 drops to aquarium thats 29G High (less sand and rock)?


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## n1zjd

I did a small but significant upgrade earlier (at least for appearance that is), I replaced the junk incadescent bulbs that come with standard cheap aquarium hoods with 13W CFLs. They arent the color spectrum I want but they will work until I get better lighting.


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## n1zjd

OMG OMG OMG! I found LIFE in my tank! I mean, I knew there was life in there, just not THIS kind of life. I can see right now that saltwater is going to become a complete obsession! I have no idea what it is, but at least there is something in there that I can keep an eye on! Ive been staring at this tank literally all day, and I just found it. My eyes are cross-eyed from trying to focus so hard. There are a few other spots in question as well, but nothing as obvious as this. What I would give to have money to go buy 21 more pounds of liverock tomorrow. Im trying to be patient as best I can! It will all come together soon I hope. Here is a picture,










Yup, Im addicted already! Cheers.
-Mike


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## wake49

What are the dimensions of the tank? Is it the 36" X 12" X 16"H, or is it the 24" X 12" X 24"H? This question will help determine your light source.

I run this model on my 150 gallon reef tank: Nova Extreme Pro T5HO. I have a 27" depth, so with coral selection, LPS and SPS have to have a high seat in the tank. I don't really keep any SPS at the moment; I keep mainly LPS and Softies.

If you are using the 36" X 12" X 16"H tank, then I would suggest either the Nova Extreme SLR T5HO (the four bulb model) or the aforementioned Nova Extreme Pro. The number of bulbs allow for good penetration and color variety. If you are using the 24" high tank, I personally use the Pro, but some others would lean towards Metal Halide. I am a big fan of the AquaticLife HID/T5HO w/ Lunar Lights. it supposedly runs cooler and has a nice light output, also it is a gas discharge lamp. That allows for more UV light output and better light penetration in deeper tanks. Any Metal Halide light will run hotter and more expensive than T5's or PC's, but you can keep anything alive under it, at any reasonable depth.

As far as corals go, I would probably start with softies and zoas. Leathers, toadstools, kenya trees, and also zoa polyps (you'll hear names like green giants, purple people eaters, red hornets, etc.). These types of corals rely more on particulates in the water column for food and use light as a secondary food source. 

LPS corals, such as frogspawns, torches, hammer corals, brain corals, duncans, etc, will be a good step up once you feel comfortable with softies. These require more light than the softies, but also feed off particulates in the water column. Water quality is more important than softies with these corals as they do calcify to construct their skelotons. Alkalinity and Calcium must be in appropriate levels.

SPS corals, such as birdsnests, monti caps and acropora, are much harder to keep than the other two. Light is vital to the survival of these corals and water quality must be pristine. Nitrates must be undetectable and Alkalinity and Calcium must stay in levels of dKH=8-12 and Calcium=400-450ppm.


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## n1zjd

wake49 - I had originally though the tank was a 30g, Ive since found out that its a 29G Tall. Its 30 x 12 x 18. Would a 250W MH be too much for my tank? Im not really concerned with the heat as much as I am being over 8W per gallon. If its an acceptable lamp then I will make a DIY hood with great cooling. Thanks for the info on some beginner choices. If the lamp isnt too much for the aquarium its what I would prefer to do personally. Cheers.


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## Pasfur

I personally have used Red Sea kits for years, and not unsatisfied. I recently tried API and plan to switch when my next purchases are made. With API the results are easier to read.

As for live rock, you are right, it becomes an addiction! Now you need to go to the store and buy a magnifying glass. You will think you are looking at life on another planet.


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## n1zjd

Here is the LFS I go to, to get my saltwater supplies, http://www.aquacorals.com This test kit that I purchased she stocks, and uses herself. I mean I think the kit is alright for the most part but the Alkalinity test is definately not all its cracked up to be. BTW, should I add that success buffer? Does 35 drops sound ok for my 29g less sand and rock? It says to use 20 drops per 15 gallons. I havent stopped reading since I started this aquarium, literally, Ive been at the pc for 6-8 hours a day studying all I can.

I love it when you turn me on to a new article to read! Today I am going to look into making a DIY sump/refugium with a 10 gallon aquarium. I know, I would love bigger as well but I only have the width for a 10 in the bottom of my stand, but I could increase volume with a nice tall tank/container. I will keep my eye out for something that will fit but hold more volume. 

I just tested my ammonia again and no spike yet. Bummer. Also, while I have your attention Pasfur, lets talk about a CUC for my tank. Where should I start? Astrea snails I assume, 1 per gallon? Besides that I dont know exactly what I should get.

Cheers. 
-Mike


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Oh BTW, there was a 'buffer' that came with the test kit, should I add some as per directions? This stuff is called success buff and says to use 20 drops per 15 gallons. Should I go ahead and add some 35 drops to aquarium thats 29G High (less sand and rock)?


I never use the buffer that comes with the Red Sea kit. I am very picky about my buffer, and I want to know exactly how my system is going to respond. I am comfortable with the Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH product, and I stick with it.

If you want to try out the Success Buff go ahead. Give it 24 hours after a dose and then retest alkalinity, calcium, and pH. I personally recommend that someone who has no prior experience would probably be best using the BIonic product, which is a balanced 2 part additive. It is what Wake49 uses, and seems to have the dominant market share today.


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## n1zjd

Fair enough. I will wait until I am able to get a better product then. My LFS isnt open until Wednesday. She does have the BIonic product. And I dont have any way to test calcium right now but I will pick up a test kit on Wednesday, or whenever I make it to the store. Thanks Pasfur. Should I put a bag of carbon in the HOB filter to assist with clearing up the water?


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## n1zjd

KH Aquarium Alkalinity Carbonate Hardness Test Tetra - eBay (item 230355881201 end time Feb-05-10 03:15:07 PST)

That test kit in the link tests Alkalinity in Freshwater, brackish, and Saltwater. My API test kit says freshwater on it so I assume it wont work in my saltwater tank? Its results are far better than the Red Sea kit, more accurate scale that is. Im looking at some test kits online right now and will probably order one before the day is done. The problem with my LFS is that she only carries a specific line of stuff that she uses, and the Alk test leaves alot to be desired. Also a recommendation on a good Calcium test kit would be appreciated.


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## Pasfur

API
Saltwater Liquid Master Test Kit | Master Test Kits | Test Kits & Refills | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
Saltwater Liquid Master Test Kit | Master Test Kits | Test Kits & Refills | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

Nitrate doubles up in these kits, but you will need it anyhow. Phosphate is the only one that isn't used constantly, but there will be times when you want it, so it doesn't hurt to have it on the shelf. For $55 total cost, ordering both of these kits is a great value.

The Red Sea Alkalinity/pH combination is a nice value:
Alkalinity Pro Test Lab | Alkalinity Test Kits & Refills | Test Kits & Refills | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com


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## n1zjd

Okay, Ive already got the Red Sea Marine Lab test kit, Im just not satisfied with the Alkalinity test. I will pick up an API Alk test kit and a Calcium test kit, as well as either BIonic or Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH. Thanks again. -Mike


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> wake49 - I had originally though the tank was a 30g, Ive since found out that its a 29G Tall. Its 30 x 12 x 18. Would a 250W MH be too much for my tank? Im not really concerned with the heat as much as I am being over 8W per gallon. If its an acceptable lamp then I will make a DIY hood with great cooling. Thanks for the info on some beginner choices. If the lamp isnt too much for the aquarium its what I would prefer to do personally. Cheers.


The watts per gallon "rule" is not so much a rule as it is a good starting point. I will use two tanks for demonstration (realize these are extremes, mainly to prove a point): A 150 extra high (48x24x30) and a 33 long (48x13x12). If we used a 492 watt metal halide fixture over both we would have 3.28 watts per gallon over the 150g and 14.91 watts per gallon over the 33g. That is a huge spectrum. At 3.28 watts per gallon, I would say that the light is more sufficient for the 150 gallon tank, as two 150w metal halide bulbs and two 96w PCs. In the 33 long, corals would be bleached from overexposure to light.

Now about using a 250w MH lamp. I would personally try to find a HQI setup, like the Aqualight Pro HQI/PC with a 150 watt MH bulb and a pair of 65w PC's for actinics. I think that this would be the best fixture for keeping any kind of coral without potential for bleaching.


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## Kellsindell

n1zjd said:


> Sure thing, heres a link to my thread http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/starting-saltwater-aquarium/complete-newb-30-gallon-reef-36293/ Try not to laugh to hard, Ive been keeping freshwater aquariums for years but since joining this site and seeing the SW setups I just had to try it! I dont even know for sure what I 'think' is alive actually is, lol.
> 
> Im looking forward to watching the progress with your Tuastraea sp, good luck! Cheers
> -Mike


LOL, no worries. I have been in saltwater for almost 8years now and there's still a lot i don't know. I'm sure Pasfur can say the same. 

As for your lighting. Depending on the corals you put into there the light might be fine or may be too much. Another example to further build on what Wake was saying

A Elkhorn montipora, a SPS coral, requires low lighting in comparison to a Montipora Capricornus. Both have similar names and both are SPS, but one requires high lights while the other requires Low. MH are great and I love them. Your corals can get used to the lighting if you know what you are doing and acclimate the corals to the new lights. (Because you will have a lot of lighting over your tank, you will have to do this every time). Some of the prefered ways to acclimate to lighting is by either:

1 - Using multiple screens and setting them on top of the tank. Use 6 or so to diffuse the light and every 3rd day take one screen off. Do this until you have run out of screens.

2 - Change your lighting cycle. If you have a 10hr MH cycle then decrease it down to 2-3hrs a day. Then, like the screens but in the reverse, add an hour every 3rd day. It takes a while and you won't be able to see them for a lot of the day, but it's worth keeping your corals alive. 

I have done both of these methods with no losses to my livestock. I'm currently upgrading to 2x250w MH over my 55g + 2x40w Actinics and i will be doing the 2nd. I'm not worried at all. (I currently have 2x175w MH and 2x40w Actinics). 

Do your research on your coral husbandry before you purchase them.


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## n1zjd

Thanks for the reply wake49. I guess with the information I have right now Im going to decide on a T5HO unit. My reasons for this are 1) Im a beginner so will only be trying beginner corals for now 2) I can buy a unit that will fit my 30" tank. I think I said it before in this thread somewhere that this tank is merely a starter tank for me to see how I will fare in saltwater. If it turns out to be a success than an upgrade in the future will definately happen, probably a 90G aquarium due to room. My reason for asking about the 250 was simply cost and diversity to be able to keep a wider variety of corals.

Im a DIY kind of guy and would have bought a ballast kit and bulb and made my own lamp for under a $100. So to keep things simple I will go with a T5HO unit. Would I be able to get my feet wet into the world of softies with something like this, Aquarium Lighting for Freshwater and Reef Systems: Nova Extreme Compact SLR T-5 Fixtures (30" 2 x 24W) or will this not be enough? If not then I will go with something like this, http://www.perfectpetshop.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=8162. Keep in mind I dont plan on this being a permanent setup so if I can save a little money now and still gain experience its going to help me out in the future with an upgrade.

Also, those arent necessarily the actual lamps being considered but an example of possible wattages. Cheers

Edit: Im really liking the looks of this for a starter lamp.... http://globalaquaria.com/currentusasatellitedualcompactfluorescent2x65watt30inch.aspx


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Okay, Ive already got the Red Sea Marine Lab test kit, Im just not satisfied with the Alkalinity test. I will pick up an API Alk test kit and a Calcium test kit, as well as either BIonic or Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH. Thanks again. -Mike


Keep in mind, Mike, that the Kent Marine Super Buffer is the equivalent of 1/2 of the BIonic. If you use Kent Marine, you also have to purchase the Kent Marine Calcium Chloride.



Kellsindell said:


> LOL, no worries. I have been in saltwater for almost 8years now and there's still a lot i don't know. I'm sure Pasfur can say the same.


No doubt Kells. There is a reason I always defer to you, OF2F, and Wake on lighting issues. ;-)


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## onefish2fish

i like API for its price and quick testing but like saliferts because theyre even more accurate. ive also heard elos is of equal quality. you may also want to invest in a refractometer over the hydrometer your using, esp. when you have corals. ebay has them cheap.

for a CUC, have patience, for now spend the money you want to spend on them on more live rock. when your finally ready for your crew i suggest a few snails to start. you can always add more as needed. a mixture of different kinds of snails is best, but avoid bumblebees. i personally also like to avoid all crabs, including hermit crabs. to me crabs cause problems and hermits just love ripping snails from their shells only to find out they dont want that shell.

personally i use icecap retrofit t5s and a MH for my lights. i like T5s the best. unfortunately i didnt get a chance to click all the links and see the lights you were reffering to or fully get a chance to read this entire thread but my best advice to you is not to buy any of the lights. your live rock does not need them for the time being and the tank, nor do i think you are ready for corals. while the tank matures its a good time to save money and absorb all the information you can, and then go with the lights that you want to get instead of buying them twice. im not saying you have to get a really expensive light setup but getting one worth while is the way to go. lighting and water quality (which usually means a quality skimmer which reviews should be read prior to its purchase) are very important to corals. if your really looking for something sort term, try to find lights used instead of brand new, but you'll prob. need to replace the bulb. its also a very good idea to search your area for a local reefing club. for the time being as well as when the time comes to have fish i would just use a flouresent light.

and for the record, a 90 gallon tank isnt always better. a standard 75 is the same size as a standard 90 minus the 90 being taller, which makes lighting more difficult.


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## n1zjd

Sounds like maybe I should go with the BIonic then since I'm a newb. 

Oh Ive got patience, just trying to gain all the knowledge I can BEFORE its needed to be put into use :-D

Good point on the 90 and 75 gallon tanks, I hadnt considered that, thanks. And Im with you on the crabs, my LFS doesnt stock hermits only Emerald Crabs. I was thinking starting with Astrea and Nassarius snails, but only when the time is right, so another 4 weeks away or so. As we all know LFS are all about making sales, thats why I wanted opinions from experienced members.

Same with the lights, Im not in a hurry just trying to gather information. I think Ive decided on that last light I posted but I dont have the money for it yet and am in no hurry to get it. I want a stable tank before considering any corals.

I would like to save money on rock and buy 25lbs of Key Largo rock but dont really like the idea of having to wait 3-6 months for it to blend in with the rest of my rock! I know patience is key...what would you guys do? If I go with just live rock I will probably add 10lbs at a time, 2 different times until I have 29lbs of rock. My LFS sells it for $8/lb.

So right now Im worried that I dont have enough live rock to get started with having only 9lbs.

Here is my checklist of things to buy right now, in order of intended purchases, help me out if you think I should change anything.

1) Better Alkalinity test, Calcium and Phosphate test and BIonic
2) 10lbs more live rock
3) HOB overflow and sump
4) Protein Skimmer

My current Alkalinity test with the Red Sea Marine Lab shows test results like this,
-Low 0 - 1.6
-Normal 1.7 - 2.8 
-High 2.9 - 3.6

I see others posting Alk test in dKH?!? What am I missing here? I know thats Carbonate Hardness but whats the difference? I dont particularly want to buy another whole kit right now since I can effectively test Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH with what I have but I do need to be able to test Alkalinity properly as well as Calcium so I can adjust as needed to support Coraline Algae growth.

Once again, thanks for any and all help folks! Cheers
-Mike


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## n1zjd

Ill be going to a LFS later today and I will check and see what all they have for saltwater stuff left. They used to sell saltwater fish and supplies but apparently it was to much for them, either that or their wasnt enough demand for it. So they do still have some supplies just not much. I originally started my tank using Tropic Marin Pro Reef Sea Salt. Right now though I dont have anymore to do a partial water change when its needed. I think the only salt mix that my LFS carries is Instant Ocean. Should I not use different salt mix's? If not I will get another box of this from my saltwater store when I make it there again in a week or so.

I will try to find a better Alkalinity test today as well as a Calcium test and pick up a couple of powerheads if they have any, as well as a 10g tank for a QT tank.


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## Pasfur

On salt, I would switch to Instant Ocean.

Alkalinity is measured in different units. On this forum, we try to be consistent and everyone talks in DKH. But you will also find many test kits refer to ppm. The Red Sea kit included a conversion chart.


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## n1zjd

Well nothing went as planned today. I did manage to get a better Alkalinity test however, but thats about all I got today that I wanted to. The store had some junk powerheads that they wanted way more than they were worth. I didnt even manage to get a 10 gallon tank! Hows that for selection? So I got a box of Instant Ocean, a box of API activated carbon and a nylon bag to put it in, and a Seachem Marine pH and Alkalinity test kit. Far better test than the Red Seas Marine Lab. After my kids go to bed Ill be testing all parameters and Ill post them up.

I just got home about a half hour ago, and maybe Im crazy, BUT, it sure as the heck looks like SOMETHING was stirring the sand all around. There are a few large holes in the sand that I swear werent there before... Like I said, I could be just crazy, but now its got me wondering if I got some hitchhiker crab. Ive obviously never seen it but maybe its in there? lol

Also the other option is maybe air bubbles in the sand bed? I can see small airbubbles in the sand bed on the sides of the tank. I put the sand in the tank and then layed a piece of plastic on the sand while I gently poured in my saltwater. Did I go about this wrong?!? Ive seen small air bubbles come free of the sandbed while Ive been looking at the tank, but I just cant see a big enough pocket of air in there to make holes in the sand like this. It almost makes me want to pick up the rocks to see but I will just leave it alone and let nature take its course.


----------



## n1zjd

Here I was bragging about patience, well its running out quickly! These test kits are KILLING me. Im mildly color blind so I cant figure out the test results without the help of my wife. And watching her attempt to figure them it is just wayyyyy to frustrating! Where the heck are the digital testers?!? Anyway, here is the best numbers I could come up with without pulling my hair out of my head.....

Temp 77F
SG - 1.024

pH 8.2
Alk - 2.5 meq/L or 7 dKH (Picking up BIonic tomorrow)
Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0.2 ppm
Nitrate - 2.5 ppm
Calcium ?? (Picking up a test kit tomorrow)

So yeah, beginning to get frustrated here. I know theres still a TON of things to purchase thats probably going to set me back $1000 or more still, and Im getting nervous that I'm going to fail miserably! Somebody calm me down here.

I will be hitting the Saltwater store tomorrow so help me out as best as you can with what I NEED NOW. Checklist so far is,

1) BIonic
2) Calcium test kit
3) 10lbs live rock
4) 2 powerheads

Depending on what I can get the wife to spend I also want a Refractometer because this Red Sea Hydrometer is worthless. You cant get an accurate reading with it bouncing around all day long. You have to watch it for 5 minutes and watch how low it goes, and how high it goes, and where it kinda stabilizes for maybe 20 seconds and take an educated guess. Yeah worthless. So someone please tell me what the most important investments I need to make tomorrow would be. Cheers
-Mike


----------



## n1zjd

Alright, Ive got my shopping list together, at least what I know I need to get today. Being at the store and seeing everything however just about kills me, lol. Oh, I also bought my first coral. I know my tank isnt ready yet, she is holding it for me until my tank is ready. So heres what I am getting

1) BIonic - $15
2) 10lbs live rock - $80
3) V3 Refractometer - $59
4) 2 Maxi-Jet 400 powerheads - $44
5) 3x3" Green Hairy Mushroom - $35
6) Calcium test kit - $??

Any other suggestions?


----------



## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Temp 77F
> SG - 1.024
> 
> pH 8.2
> Alk - 2.5 meq/L or 7 dKH (Picking up BIonic tomorrow)
> Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
> Nitrite - 0.2 ppm
> Nitrate - 2.5 ppm
> Calcium ?? (Picking up a test kit tomorrow)
> 
> So yeah, beginning to get frustrated here. I know theres still a TON of things to purchase thats probably going to set me back $1000 or more still, and Im getting nervous that I'm going to fail miserably! Somebody calm me down here.
> 
> -Mike


Mike, it sounds to me like you are doing everything perfectly. You have nothing to worry about, as you are making good smart choices right now. 

By the way, when you get the Calcium test kit, post both alkalinity and calcium results BEFORE you add the BIonic for the first time. Lets makes sure you are ready to dose both parts of the BIonic at the same time.


----------



## n1zjd

Absolutely, I wouldnt consider adding anything to my tank without consulting with you folks on here first. Thanks for the reassurance Pasfur, I needed that!


----------



## n1zjd

Well unfortunately I wasnt able to get everything I wanted today. But I got most of it. I bought 2 powerheads, a refractometer, a calcium test, and 10lbs of live rock. They were out of BIonic so I wasnt able to get anything. I will test all parameters tomorrow and post them up. Heres how the tank looks tonight,










BTW, the refractometer is amazing! If anyone considers buying a hydrometer or a refrectometer, take it from personal experience, dont waste your money on a hydrometer. Ive got one I bet I couldnt give away! Ill keep everyone posted.


----------



## n1zjd

Sorry for the lack of test results today, I was busy and didnt get a chance to test everything. Ive got a quick question regarding carbon. I bought a box of activated carbon and a nylon bag to put it in the other day. I filled the bag and placed it in the HOB filter. Within minutes I could see small particles of carbon in the tank. Now I assume this wont hurt anything but asthetics but I immediately removed the bag of carbon. Is there a way around this issue? Should the bag be filled and then rinsed while gently mixing the carbon in the bag by gently rolling the bag in my hands? If so will this take away from the effectiveness of the carbon?

Tonight I redid the aquascaping because I didnt like the way the rock looked. Tomorrow I will post up all test results and add a new pic to show you how things look.


----------



## onefish2fish

onefish2fish said:


> you may also want to invest in a refractometer over the hydrometer your using, esp. when you have corals. ebay has them cheap.





n1zjd said:


> 3) V3 Refractometer - $59


 
i want to say they are $20-30 on ebay.


----------



## n1zjd

Yeah I know most things can be had online for cheaper but since I was going to the store anyway to get other things I went ahead and bought it. And I love it! Heres a pic of the new aquascaping


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## n1zjd

Today I managed to get a new 10 gallon QT tank. I dont think I will manage to get it setup until tomorrow however. But Ive got it nonetheless and will have it up and running tomorrow to get it cycling. Heres the pics you asked for Pasfur, if you need a closer look at something or need to see more just ask! Filter is an Aqua-Tech 10-20



















Also, still waiting on an answer about the nylon bag full of carbon introducing small carbon particles into the tank. Should it be rinsed to solve this problem?


----------



## n1zjd

Argg, my only complaint about this forum is not being able to edit your posts whenever you want, instead having to make another post if you remember something 15 minutes later. Oh well. 

I forgot to mention that I bought a 2" x 6" filter sponge. Not exactly sure how many days I am into my 29G tank, 5 or 6 I guess, I havent had a diatom bloom yet. I planned on using this sponge to seed my QT tank but wondered if it was a bad idea to have it in my tank before the bloom hits, or while the bloom hits for that matter.

So heres my list of questions.....(getting tired of me yet? )

1) Would rinsing the bag of carbon solve the problem of getting small particles of carbon into my tank. If not what should I do?
2) Should I put the sponge in the tank now to let it build up beneficial bacteria and all that good stuff to seed the new QT tank or wait until after the diatom bloom has come and gone?


----------



## n1zjd

ARGGG! Test results are all over the place! Ugh tell me its going to be okay!

Temp - 77.5F
pH - 8.0
Salinity - 1.021

Alk - 7 dKH
Calcium *750 ppm (mayday!)
*Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0.1 ppm
Nitrate - 5.0 ppm

ASAP I will have BIonic but not sure how soon I can get it. One of my test kits came with a buffer I could use in the meantime if its important to do so. Whats with my calcium?!? Ahh starting to go nuts over here. I never saw an ammonia spike yet my Nitrites have dropped and Nitrates have increased, did I miss it on a day I didnt test? Ammonia has been 0.25 ppm everytime Ive tested I believe.

A little reassurance please!


----------



## n1zjd

I just tested my tap waters calcium content and its 15ppm. I started the tank with my tap water instead of RO because I read somewhere that its fine to start a tank with tap. So where is this calcium coming from?!? Only thing in the tank is aragonite, live sand, live rock and my tap water with Tropic Marin Pro Reef Sea Salt.


----------



## n1zjd

Well I couldnt just sit around and do NOTHING, so I went ahead and added some Success buff to try and bring the Alkalinity up. Tomorrow I am going to do a large water change (10 gallons) with a different salt mix unless someone tells me not to. I started with Tropic Marin Pro Reef. I have a 10 gallon box of Instant Ocean salt mix that I plan on doing the water change with, and hopefully bringing the salinity up to 1.024.

If Im not mistaken somewhere in this thread Pasfur recommended I switch to Instant Ocean. I read a thread earlier on another forum found by a google search that someone else was having high Calcium and low Alkalinity issues as well as I am. Though the Calcium wasnt as bad. I just ordered a 200G box of Instant Ocean salt mix as well.

I tested my tap water forCcalcium. My test kit only measures Ca in increments of 15, it only took one drop so there is less than 15ppm Calcium in my tap water. I have a digital TDS pen tester that reads 35ppm Total Dissolved Solids out of tap.

What Im really hoping to hear from someone is that the high Calcium levels in my tank hasnt killed off my live sand and rock. From now on I will be using 100% RO water...... I assume the live sand and rock is still alright since my Nitrites are being converted to Nitrates still. At least thats what I am hoping for! Hopefully when I do my tests tomorrow that the Success buffer will have brought my pH up some and give me a better Alkalinity reading. Im crossing my fingers that everything works out until I get the new salt and can change over.


----------



## xsputnikx

I dont want to advise you to do anything cause honestly i probably know less than you do... but I bought some stuff from walmart when i was setting up freshwater that removed all that stuff from water when you mixed it in.. its called start right... ?.. I do not know if this stuff has anything in it that is a big no no for saltwater or not... I just know its recommended for when using tap water to start a freshwater tank... but im sure some of the experts can chime in.. the tank is looking good though nice job


----------



## Pasfur

Mike....

Sit down. Breathe. Deep breathes. Relax. Sorry I wasn't here the last 2 days. I had total reconstruction knee surgery on Thursday, and I'm just now able to get to a computer. So, lets reveiw the good, the better, and the "what the heck did Mike do that for?" in the last couple of days.



n1zjd said:


> I forgot to mention that I bought a 2" x 6" filter sponge. I planned on using this sponge to seed my QT tank but wondered if it was a bad idea to have it in my tank before the bloom hits, or while the bloom hits for that matter.


Go ahead and put the sponge into the display. Lets get it seeded. The picture of your hang on is exactly what I wanted to see. You can add the sponge to this inside of the hang on filter for the Q.



> 1) Would rinsing the bag of carbon solve the problem of getting small particles of carbon into my tank. If not what should I do?


Yes, you should rinse the activated carbon prior to use, to remove dust and loose particles. It pays to buy expensive carbon, because less rinsing is needed.



n1zjd said:


> ARGGG! Test results are all over the place! Ugh tell me its going to be okay!
> 
> Temp - 77.5F
> pH - 8.0
> Salinity - 1.021
> 
> Alk - 7 dKH
> Calcium *750 ppm (mayday!)
> *Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
> Nitrite - 0.1 ppm
> Nitrate - 5.0 ppm
> 
> ASAP I will have BIonic but not sure how soon I can get it. One of my test kits came with a buffer I could use in the meantime if its important to do so. Whats with my calcium?!? Ahh starting to go nuts over here. I never saw an ammonia spike yet my Nitrites have dropped and Nitrates have increased, did I miss it on a day I didnt test? Ammonia has been 0.25 ppm everytime Ive tested I believe.
> 
> A little reassurance please!


Your calcium test is wrong. You do not have 750ppm of calcium. Do the test again. If it still shows such a high result, then you need to get another kit for comparison. After you confirm the kit you purchased is incorrect, then return it to the LFS as defective. 

I am not at all concerned with these test results. Other than calcium, just continue to be patient.



n1zjd said:


> I just tested my tap waters calcium content and its 15ppm. I started the tank with my tap water instead of RO because I read somewhere that its fine to start a tank with tap. So where is this calcium coming from?!? Only thing in the tank is aragonite, live sand, live rock and my tap water with Tropic Marin Pro Reef Sea Salt.


Just a thought.... I wonder if anyone has heard of Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt interfeering with calcium test results. What calcium kit are you using? I could imagine that increased levels of boron or magnesium could give a false calcium indicator. Not sure, but depending on what the test kit is testing I bet it is possible. You should mix up a batch of Instant Ocean saltwater, wait 24 hours, and then test the newly mixed water. I bet your calcium kit tests correctly with the Instant Ocean batch of water. 

Mike... whatever you do, do not do ANYTHING related to alkalinity or calcium changes to your water until we have these calcium questions answered.



n1zjd said:


> Well I couldnt just sit around and do NOTHING, so I went ahead and added some Success buff to try and bring the Alkalinity up.


{deep sigh, frustration} Don't do this again, ok? You can screw things up so fast we won't have time to help. 



> I tested my tap water forCcalcium. My test kit only measures Ca in increments of 15, it only took one drop so there is less than 15ppm Calcium in my tap water.


No surprise. I wouldn't expect much. The calcium in your tank is a result of the salt mix. The reason you use a marine salt mix is to create the proper ratios of the major and minor ions that make up seawater. Calcium is the #1 ion in every salt mix.



> What Im really hoping to hear from someone is that the high Calcium levels in my tank hasnt killed off my live sand and rock.


Mike, the high calcium levels in your tank have not killed off the live sand and rock. ;-)



xsputnikx said:


> I dont want to advise you to do anything cause honestly i probably know less than you do... but I bought some stuff from walmart when i was setting up freshwater that removed all that stuff from water when you mixed it in.. its called start right... ?.. I do not know if this stuff has anything in it that is a big no no for saltwater or not... I just know its recommended for when using tap water to start a freshwater tank... but im sure some of the experts can chime in.. the tank is looking good though nice job


If you are using RO water, then you don't need anything like this. If you are using Tap, then I would add AmQuel or something similar. Hopefully you are using RO.

I have a long recovery ahead of me. Probably 8 weeks or so. I will check in frequently, but very possibly not every day like I normally do. Just be patient. There is nothing that can happen in your tank that needs action immediately. Not yet. Most everything will just fix itself if you relax and watch the tank mature.

You're doing good. I will try to check in again tonight.


----------



## n1zjd

Phew! Where do I begin.

The calcium test kit is Seachem, Ill order an API kit online after I post this. Ive tested multiple times with the Seachem test and same results each time.

Im afraid I DID use tap water when I started the tank, but I wont ever again I promise! I hope to buy a RO filter very soon so I dont have to buy it from the LFS evertime I need some.

Ill put the sponge in as soon as I make the post as well.

I bought API Activated Carbon because it was all that was available to me. Ill do a google search for a better/best brand and get some.

I read some threads on other forums of people using Tropic Marin salt with high Calcium readings of 500 or more, but didnt see any with a reading as high as mine. I have a 200G box of Instant Ocean on the way. Ive got 10 gallons mixed up with Instant Ocean right now but still need to wait 24 hours to test it.

Sorry about adding the buffer, I was freaking out and made an obvious newb mistake, wont happen again I promise. I did lean on the side of caution and added below the recommended amount so hopefully I didnt do to much damage. Ill retest all parameters when the wife gets home and post the results.

I did use tap water to begin with but wont again. Im not familiar with the product but I do know there isnt any chlorine in my tap water.

Thanks for reassuring me the live sand and rock is still going to make it!

Good luck on your recovery my friend, I feel your pain as I myself have had 3 ankle surgeries. I hope yours went better than mine and you will regain full use of the joint. Myself I lost 50% movement in my ankle and still suffer with it on a dialy basis. Thats life I suppose. Dont go out of your way to check on me dude. I made a mistake because I didnt get the guidance I was looking for as fast as my impatient self wanted it and made a poor choice. I only need to be told something once. I will just wait and be patient and let things run its course. Once again, thank you for taking the time out of your day to help someone that you dont even know succeed. It means alot to me sir, and would be glad to repay you in anyway I can. I strive to learn everything I can about the hobby with hopes of someday being able to guide others in the future as you have done for me.


----------



## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> I bought API Activated Carbon because it was all that was available to me. Ill do a google search for a better/best brand and get some.


API is a good brand. A light rinsing under tap should do the trick.



> Sorry about adding the buffer, I was freaking out and made an obvious newb mistake, wont happen again I promise. I did lean on the side of caution and added below the recommended amount so hopefully I didnt do to much damage. Ill retest all parameters when the wife gets home and post the results.


Do you have test results yet? I stick by my statement that your calcium is not >700ppm. It is just nearly impossible, given the history of this setup. I look forward to a few water changes and a couple of weeks passing by, so that we can have an intelligent conversation about calcium and alkalinity maintenance.



> It means alot to me sir, and would be glad to repay you in anyway I can. I strive to learn everything I can about the hobby with hopes of someday being able to guide others in the future as you have done for me.


I'm happy to help. You can pay me back by posting lots and lots of pictures!!! I am going to be very bored over the next 8 weeks.


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## n1zjd

Test kit is obviously wrong, here are my Displays test results again.

Temp - 77.7F
pH - 8.0
Salinity - 1.022

Alk - 8 dKH
Calcium - 735 ppmAmmonia - 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0.1 ppm
Nitrate - 5.0 ppm

I also tested the Instant Ocean water for Calcium and got over a 600 reading, cant remember exactly what it was but enough to convince me the test kit is faulty. Ive got an API kit on the way. 

Oh you can count on pictures! I have 10 gallons of Instant Ocean mixed up in my 10G QT tank, should I use that today and go ahead and do a 10 gallon water change? Good luck on your speedy recovery!


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## Pasfur

i wouldn't do a water change until after you test calcium with the other kit. No reason to waste 10 gallons of water if you don't need it.


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## n1zjd

Cool, thanks. Unfortunately I was into freshwater for years before starting this journey and keep forgetting I need to forget what I learned there, haha. I guess I didnt see it as a waste but forget weekly water changes arent necessary with SW. Thanks once again. Ill just leave well enough alone until I get another test kit. Like I said I have a 200G box of Instant Ocean on the way so I would be fine with waiting for that to arrive before needing to do a water change so I can leave my Q tank alone and just let things run.

Ive got the sponge in the display so it can get seeded hopefully. Im thinking about another trip to the SW store to get some more rocks today and hopefully some rubble out of the live rock tank. Not positive on that trip yet though.


----------



## n1zjd

HOLY MOLY! What the heck is this thing? Starfish? Octopus? lol :lol: This at least confirms that there are living things in my tank... I watched this thing crawl from one hole to another one.


----------



## n1zjd

Alright, now Im getting confused! Tanks been running a bit over a week... No diatom bloom seen, well Ive been looking REALLY close at the tank all day, Ive got a fair amount of Coraline algae growth on the tops of my rocks... Will I still see a diatom bloom at some point or did we just plain old pass it over? Ive been waiting patiently each day to turn my light on and see the diatom bloom. Ill admit I havent been looking at the very top layer of rocks much and the wife was the first one to spot the coraline algae growth. Anyone have any ideas? Ill test water params a little bit later and post them up. Thanks

Edit: Also, is coraline algae dependent on light? Its only growing on the uppermost rocks nearest the junk light...


----------



## Pasfur

If your rock was high quality rock, handled with great care, and totally cured prior to your purchase, then it is very possible that you will not have a diatom bloom. It is rare in today's market that this happens, but if the turnover of rock at the LFS is slow, then this does sometimes occur.

Here is a tip. Watch the glass at the top of your sand bed. Coraline very often begins to grow right at that area, and even on the glass blocking your view of the sand bed. This area of the tank goes undisturbed and provides an easy spot for coraline to take hold. Coraline is calcareous, and growth is primarily dependent upon the calcium and alkalinity levels. 

If this tank matures another week without a diatom, then consider it great luck! I think it will. Just looking at the pictures of the live rock, it looks like very mature rock. As you have seen, the life is fun to watch! This is another reason to wait on fish and crabs. The more time for the micro life to flourish and take hold without predation, the better.


----------



## n1zjd

Awesome, thanks for the info Pasfur. Here are the results of testing. I hope to make it to the LFS within the next couple days to pickup the Red Sea Reef Lab test kit as well as BIonic.

Temp 77.4
pH 8.0
Salinity 1.024
Alkalinity 7 dKH
Ammonia 0.25 ppm
Nitrite 0.1 ppm
Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Calcium ?? Awaiting new test kit

Sounds to me like everything is moving along nicely. And the tank is obviously supporting some life so I guess all is good! Im looking forward to the coming weeks.


----------



## n1zjd

Oh, I forgot to mention that Ive got about a gazillion copepods on the sides of the glass and around the sand bed, and I can even see lots moving around with the current.


----------



## xsputnikx

that is too awsome.. I cant wait to get my tank goin... uggh...


----------



## n1zjd

xsputnikx said:


> that is too awsome.. I cant wait to get my tank goin... uggh...


I hear ya man, be patient is all I can say. Dont rush anything or you will end up paying for it eventually

So Ive got some coraline algae growth as well as a pretty good population of copepods and other small micro life in the tank now. My LFS isnt open until Wednesday so that would be the earliest I can get there. There is a fairly large amount of detritus on the sandbed floor, I assume die off from the live rocks. I was wonder if it would be too soon to add a couple of turbo snails to hopefully help with the detritus? I dont even know for sure they will do anything with it... But I tend to assume thats why I still have an ammonia reading.

Im working hard right now to come up with the money for my skimmer. I hope that within a week or so I can get it ordered because I believe its needed NOW. Dont get me wrong here with the snails. Im not trying to be impatient, but rather stay on top of any algae issues that are/may arise. The rock has a fair amount of algae that isnt coraline as well. At the same time I want to give the copepods and other small organisms time to thrive. I didnt think snails would affect them.

So priority for me right now is to get the reef lab test kit and BIonic so I can test the calcium levels properly and adjust as needed, as well as to get the skimmer here ASAP. I would try to vacuum up the worst of the detritus with a small hose rather than a gravel vac but I dont want to do anything without the ok from a more experience reef keeper. I would hate to suck up a bunch of copepods and hurt the population before they have a good chance to thrive. Im not even sure this idea would lift the detritus without taking some of the live sand with it. Just throwing out ideas since Im lacking some of the proper equipment at this point.

But Im happy to see things moving along like they are supposed to be and that there is an abundance of life in my tank.


----------



## Pasfur

I think removal of detritus should be considered an emergency situation. You need to get on this as soon as possible. Go to the hardware store and buy very small tubing to create a gentle suction. You can even use air line tubing if you have some. This will be something you do ongoing, every few months or so, especially if algae pops up from time to time.

Do not disturb the sand bed as you do this. Just hold the siphon slightly above the sand, allowing loose detritus to siphon out. Don't worry about removing copepods or amphipods, etc. You have thousands of these in your tank. The surface area is not a big deal. Most of these are living deep in your sand and live rock.

But yes, algae issues will become a problem if you allow the detritus to settle long. Adding the snails will help keep the detritus suspended. 

Also, if you have a canister filter or hang on filter, it would not hurt to hook it up for 24 hours to catch any floating detritus that gets stirred up when you do this project. Just don't let it run long term.


----------



## n1zjd

Ouch, Im on it bossman! Ill go to the hardware store and get some hose as soon as I post. Its been in there a while now, just didnt think much of it. Ive had a HOB filter running all along, empty, for circulation. So I should insert a sponge or somthing to catch this loose debris/detritus? I have no problem cleaning it every couple of hours. Alright Emergency surgery on sand bed. It will be done shortly!


----------



## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> So I should insert a sponge or somthing to catch this loose debris/detritus? I have no problem cleaning it every couple of hours.


I would, yes. Just keep that pad rinsed frequently. I personally use old fashioned filter floss for this. A big bag costs about $5 and works great. I just run it in the sump beneath my drain line for a few hours and throw it away when finished.


----------



## n1zjd

Vacuum complete and 5 gallons of pre-mixed water used to replace water sucked out with siphon. Sand bed looks much better. There is still some crap attached to the rocks that obviously looks like dead matter. What should I do with this if anything?

Sure wish I had something to put in the filter right now but I dont, unless a bag of rinsed carbon would make a difference


----------



## n1zjd

Alright, Im pretty sure I know what your answer is going to be, BUT, would it be to early to put a firefish goby in the tank? :-D They are half off this week and was one of my planned purchases. $15 instead of $29. I know, i know, its too early right? Can I at least get some snails to put in the tank to help out with the algae problem im having? If the algae is normal and not hurting nothing I have no problem waiting, I just dont want it overtaking my tank!


----------



## n1zjd

Alright, I thought long and hard last night and decided its not time for a fish. I need a protein skimmer before considering any fish. Hopefully Ill have it ordered either later this week or early next week. BUT, I still wouldnt mind getting a few snails for my CUC if anyone feels its not to early for doing that. If you feel its ok, here is what I have available to me locally for clean up crew specimens,

Astrea Snails
Nassarius Snails
Black Turbo Snails
Sand Sifting Cucumbers
Emerald Crabs

If its time to add a small portion of my CUC I would glady appreciate a recommendation on what to get and how many. If Im still getting carried away feel free to tell me so! Just trying to stay on top of everything. Ill have test results later today. Thanks in advance!


----------



## n1zjd

Sorry for posting so much and going in a million different directions. Here are my latest thoughts and would like opinions. I have some algae in the tank however I dont feel its anything to worry about at this point in time, its not real bad and is only on the rocks and no where else, in fact I think it may be improving. So I planned to go to the LFS today and get some snails, well Ive changed my mind on this. 

I DO need some things from there so help me out with my list of priorities here. 

1) Protein Skimmer (AquaC Remora with Maxi-Jet 1200 and prefilter box) $192
2) Red Sea Reef Lab (I need a calcium and phosphorus test kit) $?? I think its about $50 at my LFS
3) BIonic 2 part $15

I have $150 and would be able to order the protein skimmer today or tomorrow if that IS the priority right now. Really I need all of it NOW im afraid but hurting here a little in the financial department. What would you do?


----------



## n1zjd

Here we go again....lol

Okay I just added everything up on marineadnreef.com and its obviously cheaper than getting things from the LFS. So here goes,

AquaC Protein Skimmer - $164
AquaC Surface Prefilter Box - $28.95
API Reef Master test kit - $29.50
ESV B-Ionic Calcium Buffer 64oz - $13.65
------------------
Total $236.10

Im willing to bet I can get the wife to cover the $100 I dont have. If I placed the order today I figure it will be here by Monday or Tuesday of next week. Can I survive that long without the B-Ionic? I have no idea what my calcium levels are currently and I already know my Alkalinity is low (was 8 dKH last time tested, but have done a 7.5G water change since, test results in a couple hours). Ill be awaiting a response, just need to click a button and its ordered hehe


----------



## n1zjd

n1zjd said:


> Okay I just added everything up on marineadnreef.com and its obviously cheaper than getting things from the LFS. So here goes,
> 
> AquaC Protein Skimmer - $164
> AquaC Surface Prefilter Box - $28.95
> API Reef Master test kit - $29.50
> ESV B-Ionic Calcium Buffer 64oz - $13.65
> ------------------
> Total $236.10


All of the above items have been ordered. Ive also added 8lbs of live rock bringing the total to 27lbs right now. There was a hitchhiker snail on one of the rocks that looked like a black turbo snail. I also got 3 Astrea snails. Two are currently busy cleaning the side of the tank and one hasnt moved since I put it in the tank (Slowly acclimated them to the water conditions over the course of an hour). The hitchhiker snail didnt get this treatment as I didnt notice it while putting the rocks in unfortunately. It was moving around the rocks and seemed to be fine, however I only saw on 'tentacle' on it so I dont know if it got injured while buying or transporting the rock, or placing it in the aquarium, its since dissapeared into the rock and I haven't seen it since. Ill continue watching for him for the rest of the night as well as minitoring the one Astrea snail that hsant moved.

Edit: Found the hitchhiker snail, seem to be doing just fine. Still no sign of life from the one Astrea snail however


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## n1zjd

A quick tank inspection this morning proved that all 4 snails are alive and well! I guess the one Astrea snail was either shy or stressed from the transport but has made a full recovery now. Still not sure about the one hitchhiker snail with only one tentacle. Its alive and active just not sure if its supposed to have the single black tentacle like it has....


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## Bluetangclan

If it isnt killing the other snails dont worry about it. What kind of 'stalk' are you referring to? I have three or four snails in mine as well, some kind of cerinth variant. They spend all their time on the glass looking for algae and acting like they found some. Sounds like your tank is coming along well. Once your cycle phase is over you should have smooth sailing. I am sure you can survive a little while without the chemical, I never add jack until after the cycle is complete and I have set up waaaaay too many aquariums in the past, then again I have always had aquifer water with high alk in the first place too in every place I have lived so that might make a difference.


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## n1zjd

Bluetangclan said:


> If it isnt killing the other snails dont worry about it. What kind of 'stalk' are you referring to? I have three or four snails in mine as well, some kind of cerinth variant. They spend all their time on the glass looking for algae and acting like they found some. Sounds like your tank is coming along well. Once your cycle phase is over you should have smooth sailing. I am sure you can survive a little while without the chemical, I never add jack until after the cycle is complete and I have set up waaaaay too many aquariums in the past, then again I have always had aquifer water with high alk in the first place too in every place I have lived so that might make a difference.


Im not sure what you mean be stalk. Did I say that somewhere? No, all snails are doing fine. The items I ordered are scheduled to be here next Thursday. Im sure things will be fine until then. Im thinking about re-aquascaping later today as I dont like how high the rockpile is now, Im going to try and make a two teir look to things so I have plenty of places to put coral in the future. Thanks for stopping by and commenting, I appreciate it!


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## Bluetangclan

I meant tentacle, guess I was thinking eye stalks like cartoon terrestrial snails. I think i have a full tank shot in my profile. I managed to get a more branching look for mine by using PVC pipes and zip tying or epoxying LR to it. From what I have learned from this first try at it, I think the next one i do this with will look better as my 75 was kind of an experiment of things I havent tried before on previous tanks.


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## n1zjd

Well we had to take our dog to the vet today to get neutered and when I came back I found the hitchhiker snail had taken down one of the Astrea snails. I dont know for sure its dead but it had one heck of a hold of it and both were lying on the sand bed. Ive removed the hitchhiker and left the Astrea for now to see if it is still alive.


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## n1zjd

Heres a pic of the murderous snail










And heres a pic of the tank before I re-aquascaped tonight. Tomorrow I will post a pic when the water clears up. Before you even ask, yes the rock was pretty unstable when it was like this lol The problem has since been solved!


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## Pasfur

Nice looking sponge.


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## n1zjd

Haha yeah, its quite the eyesore right now, but hopefully it will keep the reef safe in the future when I start using the quarantine tank. Do I need to quarantine my first fish? Im going to start out with a pair of clownfish but I think are current plan is to get an anemone for each before we get the fish.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the Astrea snail that was 'attacked' seems to be fine. He is back to work cleaning the rock right now, I just dont know what damage, if any, that other snail might have done to him but so far so good.


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## Pasfur

I would quarantine the first fish, yes. You want an observation period to be sure it is not carrying any parasites. A shortened period of 10 to 14 days would suffice for this first fish. Just don't get anxious on future fish additions and be certain they get a full 3 weeks.


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## n1zjd

Sure thing! Im thinking theres probably only room for a total of 3 fish in a 29g tank anyway, MAYBE 4 depending on which ones are chosen. Like I said before, coral is going to be the main focus anyway. I should have the items I ordered by next Thursday so I can start skimming the water! Im going to order my light in the next couple days so I can get started on some coral when I am confident that all the water parameters are stable with no spikes. Thanks for all the help once again Pasfur. Heres some pics


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## marine666

Tanks looking great, when are you getting your fish. I'm just building up my cuc just now got 4 red legged hermit crabs getting another 4 on monday.

cheers colin


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## Pasfur

You did an outstanding job on this. The sand depth is perfect. The live rock display is open and allow good water flow between rocks. You have minimal sand to rock contact, preventing detritus from settling and maximizing the sand benefits. Very nice.


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## n1zjd

Pasfur said:


> You did an outstanding job on this. The sand depth is perfect. The live rock display is open and allow good water flow between rocks. You have minimal sand to rock contact, preventing detritus from settling and maximizing the sand benefits. Very nice.


Wow thanks for the kind words Pasfur, it means alot coming from you! Its always great when you can make your mentor proud! Im still trying to take things slow right now even though its getting harder knowing that the tank is closer to being fully cycled, well I think it is fully cycled but stability will definately improve the more the tank matures. I dont want to add to much at once but I want to continue to add more specimens to my cleanup crew. I was thinking maybe Friday I could add some more members to my CUC.

Pasfur, do you think it would be ok to add another 3 Astrea snails, 6 Nassarius snails and an Emerald crab? I dont need to add this many at once but would like to if you feel its safe to do so. And if your comfortable with adding those specimens, what if I added a sand sifting cucumber to that list?

Also, on my LFS website, the owner claims you should have 1 snail per gallon of water. I might be misunderstanding this here, but I almost think she recommends 1 per gallon of a couple different species. This seems overkill to me, what do you folks think?

Marine666, I will be adding fish last. I would like to finish my CUC and establish some corals in the tank before introducing any fish. I hope that within the next two weeks I will get at least one Anemone. Ultimately I would like 2, one for each clownfish I plan to have in the tank but time will tell if thats necessary or even a good idea. I still need to do tons of research so I havent made any decisions, but I do know fish are the least of my concerns right now.

So right now Im keeping an eye on all water params that Im able to test and just sitting back and enjoying my tank. There isnt a whole lot to look at just yet but its still enjoyable nonetheless. Im looking forward the Thursday when my skimmer arrives as well as my test kit and BIonic so I can focus on learning when/how much buffer/calcium supplement to add as needed so I can focus on coraline algae growth as well as stability of my reef.

Ill continue to update the thread as things progress. Thanks for taking the time to look everyone! It only gets more interesting from here on out!


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## n1zjd

Also, later today I will be ordering my light. Its going to be a Current USA Satellite 2x65W power compact. This should be the last item I need for the time being. Once I come up with a bit more cash I will get an overflow box and pump as well for my sump, but these recent purchases have me pretty strapped for cash.


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Pasfur, do you think it would be ok to add another 3 Astrea snails, 6 Nassarius snails and an Emerald crab? I dont need to add this many at once but would like to if you feel its safe to do so. And if your comfortable with adding those specimens, what if I added a sand sifting cucumber to that list?
> 
> Also, on my LFS website, the owner claims you should have 1 snail per gallon of water. I might be misunderstanding this here, but I almost think she recommends 1 per gallon of a couple different species. This seems overkill to me, what do you folks think?


I personally disagree with this standard. Adding this large of a CUC will only cause the animals to starve to death, especially in the case of snails. I believe in 1 snail per 5 to 10 gallons of water, depending on the needs of the individual tank. I use 1 crab per 5 gallons as a rule, and may increase this over time.



> I hope that within the next two weeks I will get at least one Anemone. Ultimately I would like 2, one for each clownfish I plan to have in the tank but time will tell if thats necessary or even a good idea. I still need to do tons of research so I havent made any decisions, but I do know fish are the least of my concerns right now.


Anemone's can be very difficult, and it can be especially frustrating finding good advice. Anemones live for over 200 years in the wild, so be careful when someone tells you they have been "successful" with an anemone. Keeping this animal for 10 years in captivity is NOT success. It is slow failure.

Here is a great web site that can give you some basics on keeping anemones:
Caring for Rose Anemones the right way - INTRODUCTION
I do not agree with a lot of the advice that is given about filtration concepts, but you can't question her success in keeping anemones. The advice on anemone behavior, placement, water requirements, feeding, and selecting healthy specimens is the best I have ever seen on a web site. Take some time to visit her entire site and you will learn a lot.


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## n1zjd

Pasfur, thanks for the link. I spent about a hour on her site today reading various articles but will spend more time tomorrow reading some more. I have a question regarding the protein skimmer. Where should the placement of it be (left, center, right)? The reason I ask is because I'm just trying to plan ahead on where to cut it into the new glass cover I bought for my tank. With only 29 gallons of water to work with it doesnt allow for much evap before the salinity gets to be an unacceptable level, so I want to cut the cover as tight as possible to everything. Just trying to plan ahead for the future when I have an overflow box on the back as well as the protein simmer. Im going to try to find a submersible heater as well so I only have to cut a hole for the wire instead of the whole heater. Just trying to eliminate evaporation as much as possible to keep the tank stable.

So should I look into centering both the overflow box and the skimmer?


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## n1zjd

You know, Astrea snails are a pain in the butt! I have to rescue two of them several times a day off the sandbed. I have one that is a complete champ though, he has never had to be rescued. Love that little bugger. Unfortunately one fell behind the rockpile today and needed to be rescued. So a couple rocks got shuffled around. I still need more rock anyway so its not done yet. 

I ordered the light yesterday, a 30" Current USA satellite 2 x 65W. Hopefully that will make it in by the end of the week but I have my doubts. Should be here early next week though. I cant wait until Thursday when the skimmer will be here as well as my test kit and BIonic.

Ill keep everyone posted.


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## Pasfur

I would center the skimmer, but not really an important decision. Just do what you think will look best.


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## n1zjd

Im more concerned with effectiveness than I am looks. Boy did I have a hard time not picking up a couple of $3.99 damsels to put into the tank. But after inspecting the tanks a bit more I just couldnt bring myself to do it. I saw dead fish in a couple tanks. Obviously not taken care of well enough for anything less than a 6 week quarantine IMO, IF they even survive transport. Im trying my best to be patient but its getting more and more difficult now.

Last week when I bought some more rock and the three Astrea snails my LFS said we would be talking fish this week. After emailing her earlier today she is now saying she would rather see me in two weeks! I suppose its probably for the best but I was really hoping to add some more to my CUC this week but I guess that wont be happening. Oh well.

At least that goes to show you how good my LFS is. At least the owner cares about a persons success and well being of the livestock enough to not sell it to you until they believe the tank is truly ready to sustain the livestock. So I guess for the next two weeks all Ive got to look at is 3 snails and a billion copepods. :-(


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> At least that goes to show you how good my LFS is. At least the owner cares about a persons success and well being of the livestock enough to not sell it to you until they believe the tank is truly ready to sustain the livestock. So I guess for the next two weeks all Ive got to look at is 3 snails and a billion copepods. :-(


I'm impressed with your LFS. Good for them to care as much as they do.

If you need something to look at, I can post pictures daily. ;-)


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## n1zjd

So what are you waiting for? lol Yeah its a one person place the store I go to. The owners name is Penny. She has 60+ tanks and does a great job. I have 3 Astrea snails, one who is a complete champ and works NONSTOP, and two that arent nearly as strong and need to be rescued daily from the sandbed. She seems to think they are weak because my tank isnt ready... I would agree with her if it was affecting all of the snails but its not. But I not going to argue with her because its definately not going to hurt anything by letting my tank mature more before adding anymore livestock.

Ive got coraline algea growth on the rocks I purchased last Friday. So Im still waiting patiently and cant wait for my orders to come in. In the meantime I satisfy myself with the pictures on here and staring at my tank alot. 

You know the more I think about it the more fine I am waiting. Ive noticed that the size of the copepods are much bigger now and I have an even greater population than before. There are also many other small organisms I see. I was checking out the copepods yesterday with my 60-100x pocket microscope from Radio Shack, that was pretty darn cool! So Im still hanging tough. If I could pass up those four dollar damsels today then I will do right by my tank and wait into its ready.

The biggest thing to me is how much I respect the owner of my LFS and how much she cares about the success of her customers tanks. I trust her stock. Ive been viewing her tanks weekly and they are in amazing shape. All of her corals are doing awesome and fish look super healthy. You wont find a single dead fish in her 60+ tanks. Petco was disgusting. Its ashame there are places out there like that. While I was there I watched a lady who knew nothing of fish purchase a 16 gallon bowfront tank and $80 worth of fish. I politely informed her that the tank was going to be overstocked, the fish werent compatible, and that the tank needed to cycle properly or the fish would all die. She bought them anyway because the store employee said it would be fine. Like I said, disgusting.

Im really plenty happy with what is taking place anyway, but you know as well as I do it would be better if there were some pretty fish and inverts in the tank to look at. In the meantime Im getting everything figured out over here. Like how much water to add daily/every couple of days to maintain 1.024-1.025 salinity. Ive got a logbook I write down water parameters on daily/everytime I test. Even though there arent any fish its still great watching the tank mature. 

Sorry for the long winded post. Im going to stay away from the LFS this week because its just to difficult to look at everything I want knowing I cant get it yet, lol. :lol: So once again, thats if for now. Ill keep everyone posted.


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## n1zjd

In about 4 hours or so UPS should land with my protein skimmer as well as my API Reef Master test kit and BIonic. My question is when I have the skimmer all hooked up and running would it be ok to remove the HOB filter Ive had running empty all along?

I got the glass top yesterday and a couple other supplys.

I assume the light will be here early next week.

2 more weeks and I can add some more of my CUC, w00t! Its finally starting to come together. I also plan to purchase a 35GPD Kent Marine RO unit within these next 2 weeks. And my box of salt should be here today or tomorrow as well. Anyone else using this, http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Mar...r_Systems-Kent_Marine-KM1251-FIROROTS-vi.html This is the one my LFS uses and sells.

Regarding the QT tank, when should I fill it with saltwater and let it run? Also when I fill it with saltwater and allow it to run should I put the sponge in the filter after it has ran for 24 hours or what? Im getting excited now! I already want a larger tank but dont plan on doing that now until we are thinking about a larger, more permanent home.


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## n1zjd

Alright, some new supplies arrived today. The skimmer and prefilter box are hooked up and running, just waiting for it to break in now. I like the test results of the API's calcium test kit much better! Okay here are the test results from today,

Temp - 77.2F
Salinity - 1.025
PH - 8.0

Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0.1 ppm
Nitrate - 10 ppm
Alkalinity - 9 dKH
Calcium - 440 ppm
Phosphate 0.5 ppm

So the Calcium looks ok, alk isnt terrible but could be a bit higher and I know nothing about phosphate so any info there would be good. Im going to go do a search on it when I finish the post. I feel personally that test results are easier to read with the API's test kit versus the Red Sea kits so I might switch to API for the other stuff as well. Right now though an RO system is priority. 

Hopefully the salt will be here tomorrow and the light should be in sometime next week. Everything is starting to come together now! 2 more weeks and I will be adding some more of the CUC and everything tests good for a week after that I will probably add a coral or two to the aquarium. Coraline algae is still beginning to cover all the rocks will more each day.

I was actually surprised how large the skimmer was and the surface prefilter box. I had to move some rock in order to be able to put it in. The prefilter box is kind of an eyesore in such a small tank so I was wondering about buying a couple more pounds of cured live rock and beating on it with a hammer to make a bunch of smaller pieces to glue to the prefilter box with aquarium silicone. Any opinions on this?

But other than that the tank is coming along nicely. I dont know about the fate of one of the snails yet. It hasnt moved most of the day but has been a slow mover all along so it might not have made it. The strong one still cleans like a madman, lol. I actually watched him earlier when I was doing the tests go OVER another snail that was in his way! Funny stuff. He does laps around the aquarium all day long, what a champ. The other snail hasnt had to be picked up today but hasnt moved around alot either. Better than recovering it a couple times a day from the sandbed though. Ill keep an eye on the one in question and if there is no life out of it by tomorrow AM I will remove it from the tank.

Ill keep everyone posted. The RO filter in the previous post is the one I plan to purchase unless someone has information on a better, similarly priced unit. Take care folks.


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## n1zjd

There might be a change in plans here now. The light I ordered, Current USA satellite 2x65W PC was ordered from Global Aquaria. Well I got my order confirmation when I placed the order but I havent heard from them since even though I have tried to contact them via phone and email numerous times. After considering that something may be wrong I did a search and read a report of one other person having a similar issue on Reef Sanctuary forum. All other reports I read seemed positive regarding customer support and prices of the products. So at this point I dont know what to think. 

I will give it until next Friday to hear from them before I go to my bank to see about getting my money returned to me. If this doesnt work out then I think I am going to change the plans and do a FOWLR tank for the time being and save my money for proper lighting for a 4' tank in the future. Its not what I had originally intended to do but after seeing how much fun this has become I already want to upgrade and if I do a 30" light wouldnt be of much use for me. So like I said, if they contact me and I receive the light then I will continue with what I started, if not I will go to my bank to recover the money and put the $155 towards a better light that will fit a 4' tank. 

Once again Ill keep you all posted. 

BTW, the salt came in today. The only thing being waited on is the light which is somehow doubt I will receive and for the tank to mature further before adding any livestock. Until I know more I would not recommend anyone do business with Global Aquaria: One Stop Shopping for Custom Aquariums and Synthetic Coral


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> While I was there I watched a lady who knew nothing of fish purchase a 16 gallon bowfront tank and $80 worth of fish. I politely informed her that the tank was going to be overstocked, the fish werent compatible, and that the tank needed to cycle properly or the fish would all die. She bought them anyway because the store employee said it would be fine. Like I said, disgusting.


I have had good luck over the years using this technique, with a slight modification. I say "if things don't work out" the way the LFS is telling the customer, then you can find me here at this web site and I'm happy to help. TropicalFishKeeping.com is easy to remember!


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## stanley888

I have a same 29 gallons as u convert from freshwater tank been running 2 weeks
using 30lb aragonite sand, 10lb live rock + 25 lb macro dry rock (cycled)
upgraded 2x24 T5 HO light and Aquac Remora skimmer added Koralia 1
i bring my water sample to LFS, they say i'm safe adding fish
i still worry because i test myself still have low nitrite so they recommend me a bottle of instantly cycles aquariums and PH buffer
without patience i end up buy a pair of percula clownfish and flakes food
my CUC (20 Cerith 10 Nassarius 10 Nerite) arrived yesterday


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## n1zjd

stanley888 said:


> I have a same 29 gallons as u convert from freshwater tank been running 2 weeks
> using 30lb aragonite sand, 10lb live rock + 25 lb macro dry rock (cycled)
> upgraded 2x24 T5 HO light and Aquac Remora skimmer added Koralia 1
> i bring my water sample to LFS, they say i'm safe adding fish
> i still worry because i test myself still have low nitrite so they recommend me a bottle of instantly cycles aquariums and PH buffer
> without patience i end up buy a pair of percula clownfish and flakes food
> my CUC (20 Cerith 10 Nassarius 10 Nerite) arrived yesterday



Good luck! Not trying to be rude here but I just cant see your tank being cycled after only two weeks with just 10lbs of live rock. I suppose its possible but I would be very nervous if it were me. Ive had mine running for 3 weeks with CURED live rock and I still havent hit 0,0,0 yet. Tank looks nice though.


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## n1zjd

Im beginning to question how well the pump is working on the protein skimmer. I got the Maxi-jet 1200 with mine and Ill be honest, I expected alot more water to be coming out of the overflow/return thingamabob. There arent very many microbubbles either but I do know it requires a break in period. Hopefully things will look different in a week or two but right now Im thinking the pump might not be working properly. My LFS carries the Maxi-Jet line so I can pick one up for $30 if this is indeed the case. There isnt enough water being pumped to even cover the entire return, it just flows out of the right hand side of it. But I will wait patiently for it to break in and start collecting some skimmate. 

No idea what will happen in regards to my light, I still have yet to hear from back from the company Global Aquaria. Time will tell. I found another thread about them and others had the same problem but did eventually get their product one day. So hopefully it will still come in sometime next week. Ive got 10 gallons of saltwater currently mixing/warming up to temp and will be doing a water change tomorrow so I can do another vacuum of the sandbed. I dont know if its detritus or a small diatom bloom.

Kinda looks like a algae bloom but it isnt covering everything like a diatom bloom normally does. Ive still got one weak snail but the other 2 are nice and active. I cant believe how tough the one original strong one is. Last night he was cleaning near the other strong snail and that one attached to him and yet he continue to haul that snail all over the tank cleaning. It was pretty cool. One barely holds himself to the tank and that one can haul two of them around like its nothing, lol.


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## Pasfur

Mike,

Can you post some pictures of that protein skimmer? I can't really understand what you are trying to describe.

Stanely,

I am going to copy your post into a new thread for discussion, so that we do not take over Mikes running thread. The new thread is located here: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/starting-saltwater-aquarium/new-29-gallon-tank-37661/


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## n1zjd

Sure give me a few minutes and Ill snap some pictures of it for you. In the meantime here are a couple pictures of the tank. The first is with the flash on


















I guess Im finally seeing a diatom bloom. Why so late? It doesnt seem to be nearly as bad as others Ive seen on here though. Its gotten a bit worse over the last couple days but nothing on the glass that I can see and not a whole lot on the rocks but there is some. Heres some pics of the filter, the first one shows how little flow there is.


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## Pasfur

That, my friend, is the best example of a diatom bloom I have ever seen! No need for a water change. Instead, get that alkalinity and calcium test kit out!


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## stanley888

I have a lot mircobubble when using skimmer because I initial setup with tap water and dichlorine stuff
Also u have prefilter box reduce microbubble*
The maxijet stock pump output not very high I agree that
People usually upgrade 1 size more to mag 3 or mag 5 if u planning replace stock one
About the light I upgrade my tank to Nova Extreme T5 2x24 for $68+*
Current USA Nova Extreme T5HO X2 - Saltwater Light Fixtures
It's a regular 24" T5 bulb fit in 30" light texture
only Carolife make 30" bulb for 2x31
It seen low watt compare to 2x65 power compact
I can always upgrade another 2x24 in the furture **


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## n1zjd

Pasfur said:


> That, my friend, is the best example of a diatom bloom I have ever seen! No need for a water change. Instead, get that alkalinity and calcium test kit out!


Haha cool. I tested two days ago and alkalinity was 9 dKH and calcium 440 ppm. Ill test again tomorrow and adjust as needed. I know Alkalinity is a bit on the low side but I had hoped for them to both drop down to a 'respectable' low level so I could adjust both with the same measurements but Im sure its not always going to work out this way. But like I said I will test tomorrow and adjust on the low side and retest to get a baseline on the outcome of certain adjustments. My main concern is that I know I shouldnt adjust for say 29G of water because Im sure the rock and sand take up probably 5 gallons or more so I will play it safe and make small changes and retest after 24 hous. Am I correct in saying that a little less than enough is better than too much?

Stanley888 - If the pump I have is in fact operating properly then yes I will be ugrading to a larger pump because there just doesnt seem to be alot of bubble action going on. The skimmer has only been running for 2 days so its not had a chance to 'break in' yet. The only problem now is that I believe the prefilter boxes are designed for specific pumps. So I will just have to be patient and see how well it skims. Like I said, I can always buy another Maxi-jet 1200 and see if this one is in fact not outputting the proper flow rate. Actually I need another power head anyway because I need one for the container I will be mixing the water in for water changes so I will purchase one next week and swap it out and see if there is any change in water flow. These skimmers have a great rep so I have no doubt that it will work just fine. Also, I dont know if it applies to all models of these pumps but the Maxi-jet 400s and 1200s are the exact same size I do believe. I will look at whats available at my LFS next Saturday and see whats up.


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## stanley888

mine seen a lit more flow
less microbubbles is good sign good water quality


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## n1zjd

Hmm, yeah thats alot more flow! I think I will mess around later today and remove the surface prefilter box and see if that changes anything at all. I tend to think the pump is just junk. If so thats an easy fix. The prefilter boxes fit fairly tight but as long as the water level stays where it should be I would think it would allow the pumps to pull all they want. Ill find out a bit later on though. No worries, they make them everyday, just seems as though I shouldnt have to be buying a new pump for a 3 day old skimmer. 

But at least it came! I cant say the same for the light yet. Hopefully it comes and it wasnt a loss of $155. Alright, I need coffee, time to motivate. Have a good day everyone!


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## n1zjd

Pump is fine. I removed the prefilter box and the thing just took the heck off. I put the prefilter box back on and all is well. Only thing I can think is that there was an air bubble somewhere that was wreaking havoc on the pump. But needless to say, Houston we have micro bubbles! And plenty of em. Now there is a ton of water dumping out of the skimmer back into the tank. I knew something was wrong regarding the pump but at least it was a cheap fix haha. Of course its ALOT louder now but I like that personally, now I know its working. The wife might not feel the same though haha, it will be quieter in a week or two though after the break in period is complete.

I was beginning to think to myself, I paid $200 for this piece of crap?!? Now I see its worth the money, there is an insane amount of bubbles. But I dont see how anyone runs one withoout the prefilter box! It literally FILLED the tank with micro bubbles in less than a minute with the prefilter box off but they are subsiding now thank god. So once again Im a happy man looking forward to some skimmate! w00t. :lol:


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## Pasfur

stanley888 said:


> mine seen a lit more flow
> less microbubbles is good sign good water quality


I think you misspoke. Less skimate could indicate less accumulation of dissolved organic compounds. However, Mike was talking amount microbubbles in the skimmer column, which is not function of water quality, but is a function of the effectiveness of the venturi.

Also, Mike, keep in mind that you can replace the impeller on the MaxiJet without buying a new power head. This is something that generally will need to be done every few years. Cleaning the impeller is part of routine maintenance. I clean mine every 3 months or so, depending on what I visually see. As the impeller becomes dirty it spins more slowly, pulling in less air.


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## n1zjd

Heh, well I couldnt leave well enough alone. I moved one rock, then another, then a couple hours later I was once again satisfied! So the rock formation has changed Im afraid, but for the better. There is better waterflow around the rocks now and there are more caves than before. I didnt test the water today since I stirred things up quite a bit moving rocks so I will test tomorrow when the water has cleared up. 

The skimmer is now running like it should with a gazillion micro bubbles and there is actually some skimmate in the collection cup now but nothing like there will be after it fully breaks in I would assume. Hopefully I didnt mess anything up as far as the diatom bloom goes. The original reason for moving the rock was to rescue an upside down Astrea from behind the rocks then nothing looked right :-( but I do like it better now :-D. 

It wasnt long ago that I was REALLY impatient about wanted to add some more of my CUC but Ive have since made it past that itch and now all Im really concerned about is letting my tank mature. Im sure in a few days I will be back to wanting some more life in the tank but I do want to give everything the best chance to thrive that I possibly can.

Ill be honest, Im kicking myself in the butt for being so impatient. I shouldnt even have started this project to be honest because obviously I already want BIGGER and BETTER, but I now have a $200 skimmer that wont be enough for a 75G tank. Oh well, live and learn I suppose. Ill just continue with this project and learn all I can from it to be better prepared when I DO start up a larger reef tank.


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## stanley888

i have my rock stack too high on the first version 3" below water level
When make water change my rock possible hit air or my future carol will...


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## n1zjd

*Upgrade Baby!*

Well your not going to believe this, but I am already upgrading. Ive talked to my wife and we have agreed. Ill be ordering the tank and stand tomorrow. Im going to be getting a new 75 gallon! I dont know much yet as far as whether or not there is room under the stand for the 29G to be used for a sump or not but either way, IM UPGRADING! Can you tell I'm excited? 

Obviously Ive wanted to upgrade since I started but didnt think I would be able to since I already invested so much money into the 29G tank but I read on another thread today where Pasfur said the AquaC Remora will work on a 75g tank with an upgrade to a mag3 pump. So before I get to carried away Pasfur I would love a confirmation here. 

I mean worst case scenario I could run this skimmer in combination with another if I had to. But I obviously wouldnt get the $200 back I just spent on it if I tried to sell it. Ill try to have more details later. The kids are driving me insane right now and my mind is going in a thousand directions so I will be back later with any additional info that anyone might request.


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## Pasfur

Ehhh.... I actually linked to the AquaC Remora Pro, which is a larger version of the Remora. That being said, i would not personally let this get in the way. I say upgrade to the 75, and lets just see how it goes. Yes, I would have recommended the bigger Remora Pro to begin with, but the Remora is not a bad skimmer on its own right. 

As for upgrading the pump, I'm not sure. There is a different prefilter box for the Mag than what you have now, so the cost is a bit more than you think. But if you can handle the cost, then I do think the Mag would increase the capacity of your skimmer.

I will tell you this. I don't know what your plans are, but I would strongly recommend that you use a 4'' to 6'' sand bed. Using a 1'' sand bed AND an undersized skimmer is not good. 

Go for it. You will be fine.


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## n1zjd

Oh dont you worry, it wont stop the upgrade. Im moving to a 75G if I have to use the 29G for a year in order to get the parts together! Im currently waiting for some communication between another member of our forum who has a friend selling a package deal for a great price. The problem is the person with the deal is a couple states away so I dont know how we would arrange getting it here. If that doesnt work out I will be ordering the tank and stand ASAP because they are on sale right now. I can buy a brand new stand and tank for $275, and its a nice wood stand not something made from plastic or metal. The regular price on the combo is normally $479 so I cant beat it.

Ill keep everyone posted. The current 29G looks much better now that I have a skimmer. The water has cleared right up and I changed the background to a plain black one and I like it alot better. Ill try to get a picture up tomorrow or something. Ill be getting some more of my cleanup crew on Saturday and maybe a pair of clownfish to keep me for going crazy while putting together the 75.


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## stanley888

get a tank with predrilled with overflow 
use the 29g as a sump/refugium 
trade Remora for in sump skimmer


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## n1zjd

Added the first real livestock today, w00t! :lol: Heres what I got

3) Nassarius snails
2) Amphiprion Ocellaris
1) Lysmata debelius
1) Flower Leather
1) Capnella

I think I might wait a bit on the upgrade to a 75 so I can finish setting this tank up properly. I need better lighting. More than likely when I do upgrade I will use this tank for a frag tank so I will need the lighting regardless. I bought Formula two flake food as well as a package of frozen mysis shrimp as well. Everyone is still pretty excited about being in their new home so I wasnt able to get the best of pictures but here are a couple,


























Ill probably do some research tonight and find a vendor that can be trusted and order a light. Ill keep everyone posted and try to get some better pictures tomorrow.


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## n1zjd

I also got at least one hitchhiker starfish on one of the corals. Its hard to tell because I know the tentacles of birttle stars can be quite long but it appears that there are two of them. Now Ive got a question about feeding the clowns. They are juveniles are pretty darn tiny but Ive been watching them grow up over the last month at my LFS and watch them eat very well every time Im there. My LFS feeds them a mixture of Formula two flakes and thawed frozen mysis with a turkey baster. Since Ive only got two to feed this seems a bit much.

Can the flakes be used to feed them like you would freshwater fish by just putting a couple flakes in the top of the tank? I plan to feed twice a day, once just flake and the second time flake and mysis. Now Im wishing I would have got a goby or two! :lol:

Edit: This is the light that will be ordered later today, http://www.marineandreef.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RES53403&CartID=1


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## Pasfur

Mike,

I would recommend gently crushing the flakes, holding them underwater, and then releasing them. This is a much more natural feeding method than having the fish swim and eat from the surface.

Also, you will want to incorporate a huge variety into the diet of your marine fish. I have 10 to 15 different foods that I feed, just rotating from day to day. This will help ensure that your fish are getting what they need to be healthy and have a strong immunity.


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## n1zjd

Todays feeding was AWESOME! Snails popping out of the sandbed zooming around the tank, clownfish darting all over the tank, fire shrimp just going crazy pursuing mysis shrimp floating by. Just AWESOME! I cant wait to feed again tomorrow!

Pasfur, I would love some recommendations on what types of food I should get for the varied diet. I would gladly give them as much of a variety as I possibly can. 

Patience has paid off and now the tank is a complete joy to watch. Ive ordered my light from Marine and Reef and it should be here by Friday I hope. I will probably order the new tank and stand next week. My LFS said they are on backorder due to the sale so I dont know what will happen there.


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## n1zjd

Ok, a couple of questions. I will ask for details/opinions when the time comes to adjust but when should I add BIonic. I know enough to know to only adjust the one needed or both if needed. So should Caclium only be adjusted when the level reaches 400 ppm or less? What about Alk, when it hits 8 or drops below that?

And recommendations on foods for a good varied diet.

Im still in awe of watching the animals in the tank feed. It was simply awesome! Too bad they cant be fed 10 times a day, lol. Right now im sticking with feeding once a day. Ahh what the heck, might as well throw out one more question, :-D Stocking. Do you think my 29 is large enough for these fish, and if so help with the stocking order (keep in mind I have the Clownfish pair already)

False Percula clown pair
Tail-spot Blenny
Watchman Goby
Clown Fairy Wrasse


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## DisneyCoralReef

That is so exciting! really appreciate you sharing your stories and experiences all while starting up and upgrading to your new tank. I think it's going to be saving me a lot of mistakes and regrets by starting up with something bigger than I had originally planned to start.

Please keep us posted on all your new ventures and make sure to post lots of pictures! Can't wait to hear and see your new 75G tank get started.

Cheers!


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## n1zjd

Will do for sure! This hobby is terribly addicting! I can take videos with my digital camera so I will set it up tomorrow when I get ready to feed and hopefully get a good video of all the action in the tank. I cant wait to get to work on the 75G but its going to be a slow build due to money. The tank and stand is definately the cheap part!


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## n1zjd

Still looking for recommendations on foods for a varied diet, keep in mind that right now my clowns are juveniles and dont eat very much/large foods. I have to chop the mysis shrimp very finely right now for them to eat it.

Also looking for opinions on this stocking plan. If you think it will work, what order should they be introduced (already have the clownfish)?

False Percula clown pair
Tail-spot Blenny
Watchman Goby
Clown Fairy Wrasse


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## Pasfur

I think you stocking list will work fine and the order will not factor into it with the list you have. Just add them as you find the appropriate healthy livestock.

For feeding, i would think most of the frozen food selections would be fine. Just place a cube into a cup of water and allow it to break apart. Then slowly pour it into the tank. The only thing they won't take will be squid, plankton, krill, and other large chunks. But the basics like brine shrimp, marine cuisine, angel formula, angel & butterfly formula, etc will not be a problem at all.


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## n1zjd

Thanks Pasfur, I will see what other frozen foods my LFS has to offer. Currently they seem to be very happy to eat the thawed mysis and flakes soup but it probably doesnt offer the full line of nutrients they should have. That and I would hate for them to get bored with it and no longer eat.

Well good, youve ok'd the stocking list, now if I can get my LFS to agree to it I will be doing good! I will then stock them in the order listed. Im willing to bet the LFS will agree with 2 choices but will give me a NO on the last. We will see, Ive just emailed her after reading your response. I will probably add the Tail Spot Blenny later this week.


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## n1zjd

Just like I figured she said no on the clown fairy. Ugh she is starting to get annoying! Even if she is right I see no reason why I couldnt give it a try. GRRR. Ill just get someone else to buy the fish for me if she wants to be this way... I need to get started on the new tank so I dont have to deal with her crap anymore.


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Just like I figured she said no on the clown fairy. Ugh she is starting to get annoying! Even if she is right I see no reason why I couldnt give it a try. GRRR. Ill just get someone else to buy the fish for me if she wants to be this way... I need to get started on the new tank so I dont have to deal with her crap anymore.


Are you saying that she refuses to sell you the fish? I'm not even sure this is legal.


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## n1zjd

You know I kinda thought the same thing. Yes, she refused to sell me ANY livestok before the tank had been running for a month. I wanted to purchase a CUC before then and she REFUSED to sell them to me. Ill have to look into this. I mean dont get me wrong and I think you can tell this about me, if the fish seemed at all uncomfortable I would gladly return the fish. But Ive see larger fish than a wrasse in 29G tanks and they seem to be perfectly happy. Its just extremely frustrating to try to do everything right and yet still be treated like Im an idiot because I went with a tank smaller than she recommended I start with.

I mean come on, Im not asking her for a tang or other large fish. Its a small, peaceful fish (4" adult length). Im not positive but Im pretty sure she has them currently in 20G breeder tanks.... I realise thats not a permanent home but give me a break here.


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## n1zjd

If a person was to buy a watchman goby and then a pistol shrimp a week or two later would the two still pair up?

Heres a pic of a starfish the wife spotted tonight,










Its really small, less than the size of a dime I would guess. Is it identifiable? And if it is does anyone know what species it is and whether or not its safe in a reef tank?


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## onefish2fish

if you buy a watchman and a pistol they may or may not pair, mostly depending if they find each other. that is an asterina starfish.

on the subject of frozen foods i always pre-rinse the cubes in alittle RO/DI water because the water they come in is full of phosphates.


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## n1zjd

onefish2fish said:


> if you buy a watchman and a pistol they may or may not pair, mostly depending if they find each other. that is an asterina starfish.
> 
> on the subject of frozen foods i always pre-rinse the cubes in alittle RO/DI water because the water they come in is full of phosphates.



Thanks for the info onefish2fish. WWM (Wet Web Media) also said it was an Asterina star. Ill will monitor it to see if it stays away from my coral or not. Hopefully it will be fine and can stay. I read somewhere that the 6 leg Asterinas are safe while the 7 leg are not. Time will tell. Also, I have been rinsing the frozen foods before feeding them to my fish/shrimp.

Im going to the LFS today to get an Emerald Crab and a few more Astrea snails and also see what else they might have as far as frozen foods.


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## Pasfur

I have a ton of Asternia starfish in my 54 reef, and I've never noticed any problems. I'm curious to look at them today to see if they have 6 or 7 legs. That is new to me.


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## n1zjd

Pasfur said:


> I have a ton of Asternia starfish in my 54 reef, and I've never noticed any problems. I'm curious to look at them today to see if they have 6 or 7 legs. That is new to me.


Haha dont quote me on it! I read it on another thread from a different forum while doing my google search to see what they were/if they were reef safe. Im glad to hear you have many and no problems. The wife got so excited when she spotted it! She started yelling and I didnt know what was going on lol


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## n1zjd

Today I added an Emerald Crab and 7 more Astrea snails. I think I am done with my LFS unless for some reason I need something faster than I can get it online. Im tired of listening to the bull there. Keep in mind that the thread title is incorrect, this is a 29G reef not a 30. I found out after starting the thread that the tank is a 29. So with that in mind, what can you folks recommend for a 'centerpiece' fish suitable for my tank? Current live stock is a pair of juvenile clowns, blood red fire shrimp, emerald crab, and assorted snails.

My LFS wont even allow me to buy a Dwarf Flame Angel for my tank, OR a Clown Fairy Wrasse. So I asked her today "so what CAN I get for a centerpiece fish?" She said, purple firefish are nice. Come on, Ive got to be able to do better than that... So Ill order this fish online since she doesnt want my money, so I would love some ideas from you folks.


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## Pasfur

Flame Angel. Very hardy and beautiful. Any of the Pygmy Angelfish would work as well:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/african-pygmy-angelfish/
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/cherub-angel/
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/flameback-pygmy-angelfish/

Sorry the profiles lack pictures on these species. We are still creating the profile database. But there is some great information there. The guy who wrote those pages is a brilliant man. ;-)


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## onefish2fish

get rid of the clowns and
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+19+76&pcatid=76


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## n1zjd

Thanks for the ideas folks! You told me precisely what I wanted to hear. Onefish2fish, thats a pretty cool fish. My main problem is Im trying to please everyone in the house when it comes to this tank (Myself, Wife and two children) for that reason I dont think he would work. However I think it would be a cool fish to have when I upgrade tanks soon :lol:

So right now Im going to have to say it will probably be a Dwarf angel. I had the wife on the computer last night going through the pics of angels and she liked the Lemonpeel and Yellow angel best. 

Now Ive got another question. Ive only got a 10G Q tank. Would I be able to keep a dwarf angel in a 10G Q tank for 4 weeks or more while monitoring it for disease?

So its beginning to sound like

2 Clownfish
1 Watchman Goby
1 Yellow Dwarf Angel
And if possible maybe a Bangaii Cardinal (_Pterapogon kauderni)

_Would this stocking listwork?_
_


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Now Ive got another question. Ive only got a 10G Q tank. Would I be able to keep a dwarf angel in a 10G Q tank for 4 weeks or more while monitoring it for disease?


Yes, just realize that the Lemon Peel Angel is difficult to keep. They are much more difficult than a Flame or Coral Beauty. Shipping and handling problems related to collection result in serious problems acclimating to the aquarium. The C. heraldi is not much better. 

A Flagfin Angel (Apolemichthys trimaculatus) would be a better choice after your upgrade, but not for a 30 gallon. The Apolemichthys genus behaves like a Genicanthus in the aquarium, making it an acceptable Angel in a 75 gallon tank, size considered. The Flagfin reaches about 11 inches in length, so it should be ok in a 75. They are usually offered for sale in the 4'' size, which is a bonus.


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## n1zjd

Ahh exactly why I love this forum! Thats fine with me, the wife picked one of the clowns and my oldest son picked the other. The wife also likes the pink spotted watchman, so theres her other pick and the centerpiece is going to be MY choice, lol. And I personally think the Flame angel is a great looking fish! So there thats settled. Either way, the angel will obviously be the last fish added, and its not going to be anytime soon. A couple months down the road at least. So how does this sound,

2 Clownfish
1 Bangaii Cardinal
1 Pink spotted watchman goby
1 Flame angel

Would this work? Also, that would probably be the order I add them in.


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## Pasfur

Looks fine. Just add the Flame last, otherwise I'm not worried about the order. You might have room for another very small fish, like a Jawfish or something similar.


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## n1zjd

Pasfur said:


> Looks fine. Just add the Flame last, otherwise I'm not worried about the order. You might have room for another very small fish, like a Jawfish or something similar.


Maybe a firefish?


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Maybe a firefish?


Probably not MIke. I think your open water area is full. You want something that hangs in, on, or immediately around the rocks.


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## n1zjd

Fairy enough. They got some pretty sweet looking jawfish, a bit pricey though. Worth if for the looks, however I would be satisfied with the list I provided anyway. If the money is there before it comes time to buy the angel I will consider adding a jawfish. I have no problem playing it safe though and being a bit 'understocked' (thats not really the word as it wouldnt be understocked), easier on the bioload cant be a bad thing! Cheers Pasfur


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## n1zjd

Alright, I dont know what the heck is going on with these test results. Ive had enough of the Red Sea test kit, I just plain dont trust it. Here are todays test results....

Temp - 77.4
Salinity - 1.023
pH - 8.5?!?

Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrite - 0.1 ppm (has been zero, why the spike?)
Nitrate - 5 ppm
Calcium - 540 ppm ?????
Alkalinity - 11 dKH

Okay a little info. My salinity for some reason had dropped down to low, only thing I can say is salt creep, which there has been some of (near the skimmer return/evap on the glass cover), so I have done several small water changes (1-2 gallons) over the last few days to try and get the salinity back up without a drastic one time change. This is the only reason I can possibly see for these numbers, even though I dont understand why they are what they are.

Still have the diatom bloom although its receding rapidly now. Are these changes due to the increased bioload due to adding the fish and inverts? How about the pH? Alk is fine so shouldnt it buffer itself to the proper range? Like I said, I dont trust this test kit for some reason. I will be replacing it with a API kit VERY soon.

Fish are doing great, as well as all inverts (red fire shrimp, emerald crab, snails). Corals arent doing the best but Ive seen far worse. I can justify why the corals arent doing well (salinity is still a bit low/inadequate lighting). I have added ZERO supplements/buffers.

I guess right now my main concern is pH/calcium levels. Im sure the nitrites are due to the increase in bioload/waste products. Is 540 a dangerous level of calcium? I will retest calcium tomorrow, I may be messing the results up a bit because of cheating.....:| (adding the first 10 drops without shaking in between).

I wont be doing anymore water changes soon. Ill allow evap to get the salinity to 1.024 - 1.025 and maintain from there.

So do I need to do something drastic to solve these issue or should I just leave things alone, retest tomorrow night, and allow things to take care of themselves?


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## Pasfur

You are not cheating on the calcium test. That is fine to add a series of drops prior to shaking. I generally go 18 drops then shake.

I would just let the tank sit. Calcium is not a huge deal. Odd, but not a big deal. What salt mix do you use?


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## wake49

Sometimes dirty test vials can give excessive calcium readings as some residue was left on the inner walls of the vial. I can't say the same for pH, but, are you using an airstone or bubble wand by any chance?


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## n1zjd

No airstone or bubble wand. I was also concerned about the vials. Ill be sure to clean them very well when testing tomorrow. I started with Tropic Marin sea salt, but have switched to Instant Ocean since. Obviously the tropic marin is still in the system as I havent done enough water changes to rid the tank of it. Lights off but I can still get 5ml of water out of the tank. Give me a minute Im going to retest the calcium.

Heh, guess I need to clean the vials out WHEN I test and not just clean them good when I finish testing. Retest showed Calcium at 440 ppm. So all the other test results are apt to be faulty as well. Ill retest fully tomorrow night with CLEAN vials!


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## wake49

Very good. The pH really shouldn't have a faulty test based on a dirty vial, but I could be wrong about that. I haven't seen anything outside of a 8.3 for years.


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## n1zjd

Yeah, well reading reviews on test kits as best as I can tell Red Sea kits are ones to be least trusted for accuracy. Ill be replacing it with an API kit asap.


----------



## n1zjd

Should I stay away from hermit crabs or would a few be alright in my tank? Also, if/when they rip a snail from its shell for a new home, will they eat the snail or will it just pollute my tank?


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## Pasfur

I personally use hermits. But they can be unpredictable, may kill your snails, and are opportunistic predators.

Snails are a safe option, but I think the crabs are worth the risks.


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## n1zjd

If you use them that is good enough for me! My LFS refuses to sell them due to the potential of killing snails. I say big deal, its normal and natural. They do it in the wild why cant they do it in a marine aquarium. With that said, How many should I consider for my 29G? Of course if you go by sellers they say 1per gallon but I tend to think thats got to be way high. I was thinking more along the lines of 5 maybe?


----------



## n1zjd

One more question as well. Ive been viewing alot of different peoples 29G reefs and Im just not satisfied with my aquascaping. So needless to say I plan to redo it yet again in the next couple days. How long can the rock stay out of the water and not suffer significant die off? If I have to I can transport the rock to my Q tank while Im doing the Aquascaping, it just wouldnt be the most convenient because the Q tank is in the other room. Im thinking it would only take an hour or so to do the work but Im afraid of die off. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. 

The main goal in re-aquascaping is to allow more caves and to make the rock better designed for corals. Right now the bottom rocks are set in to far IMO. There is alot of 'shelf' and they are stacked together too tightly. Really wishing I would have bought rock from key largo and seeded it now! I would have saved a ton of money and I would have better rock. Oh well, Im sure I can do something with what Ive got.


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## Pasfur

Don't worry about having the rock out of water for 1 hour. It won't really be that long for each piece because you will be moving pieces in and out. You could drain a water into a small tote and place the live rock inside. That would keep it wet. But I personally don't worry about it.

Some advice on the reef. Try placing junk rocks for the legs, and then use your flat rock to form shelves on the legs. Then build up from there, using cable ties where possible to create stability. You'd be surprised at how many rocks will allow you to thread a cable tie through a hole to attach to another rock. This also helps to create overhangs using very small rocks. 

Here is a good example of what you can do with overhangs to create a cave effect using cable ties. This picture was day 1 of my 180, right after forming the first side of the reef.


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## Pasfur

You probably can't tell, but the rock that the power head is sitting on top of is attached by cable ties, with no supporting rock at all. It is a total overhang, which makes for a very cool effect. I also used a 12'' pvc rod threaded through the underlying rocks to make the width of the cave much larger, so that the PVC rod supports the ceiling rocks.

Here is that picture after about 3 months, from the front:









Another pic after about 9 months, from the opposite side:


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## n1zjd

Very nice. See that rock youve got is way better than what I have to work with. Mine is way more solid if you know what I mean. I will do my best to make it work. I do plan to make an order of Key Largo from Marco rocks in the next few weeks but for right now I have to make do with what Ive got. Right now my tank is in the living room but being a high traveled room its just too much drama for me. Well for the fish more specifically. With the young kids raising heck all day I just feel like it puts to much stress on them. I will probably be moving the tank to a dedicated 'fish' room/office in the next week or two. We are going to be moving our bedroom back upstairs and the current bedroom is going to be converted into my fish room/office. More fish room than anything :lol:

And then the fun is going to really begin. I want to setup a few different reef tanks and try to start making some money back from the hobby! Now this isnt a business move but rather a means to pay for my addiction hehe. I will probably be doing the aquascaping tomorrow. Ill post up a picture when I get it done.


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## marine666

pasfur's rock has to be the best Coraline algae growth i have ever seen the colour is amazing. looking forward to seeing your pic's


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## Pasfur

marine666 said:


> pasfur's rock has to be the best Coraline algae growth i have ever seen the colour is amazing. looking forward to seeing your pic's


Thank you. I have to agree honestly and I wish I could duplicate that success in my 54 reef. The only difference is that the 180 used dry rock and the 54 used mostly live rock. Makes me wonder. 

Also, I have added 2 additional dry rock shipments to the 180 and each time they have coated with coarline inside of 3 months. I have ANOTHER 25 pounds that should arrive this week for my 180 from Marco Rocks, also going in my 180. I will try to post some pictures as I do the build. I am still not totally happy with the visible appearance of the reef structure.


----------



## n1zjd

New light has arrived and is installed, Yay! I removed the glass cover from the top of the tank, is this ok? I felt that it was blocking precious light the corals will be needing soon. And Im actually hoping for faster evap right now to allow the salinity to rise up a bit more so I can add back 1.024 water and keep it stable finally. Im beginning to think my refractometer needs to be calibrated or something...

Obviously still a newb here but one thing I can definately point out about coraline is cleanliness. I have one specific rock in my tank that has the most coraline growth. That same rock also had the highest activity of Astrea snails cleaning it just before the coraline took hold. I think it would be even more covered right now had it not been for me being annoyed with 5 different Astreas on that one rock cleaning when I felt they could be cleaning elsewhere and moved a few....haha. Now I know to leave well enough alone. 

But that one rock has more coraline growth on it than all the others combined and I know it was due to the snails cleaning it so well. If the Astreas didnt cost so much I wouldnt mind another 20 or 30 in there right now just to get the initial cleaning over with! But Im not going to go spend another $50 for 20 more snails. the current 10 will take care of it, its just going to take longer is all.

Also, the majority of the rest of the coraline is on the undersides of the rocks where the detritus isnt able to settle. So theres is definitely truth to what I am saying about the cleanliness of the rocks.

Well I got to thinking and decided it would be better to wait until I moved the tank before re-aquascaping but I found an Astrea snails on the bottom of the tank behind the rocks that needs rescuing so I will be messing with the tank some today.


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> New light has arrived and is installed, Yay! I removed the glass cover from the top of the tank, is this ok?


Yes this is fine. It is actually common practice if you ask around here. The manufacturer will provide a warning to cover themselves against liability, but I have never had a problem. What fixture was it again?


n1zjd said:


> Obviously still a newb here but one thing I can definately point out about coraline is cleanliness. I have one specific rock in my tank that has the most coraline growth. That same rock also had the highest activity of Astrea snails cleaning it just before the coraline took hold. I think it would be even more covered right now had it not been for me being annoyed with 5 different Astreas on that one rock cleaning when I felt they could be cleaning elsewhere and moved a few....haha. Now I know to leave well enough alone.


I have read somewhere (I can't recall, but I'll try to find it) that certain mollusks actually feed off the coralline as the coralline sloughs off old cells. I think that the same article mentioned something about larvae eggs and the association with coralline algae. This might be why you see all that activity on that rock...

But you are right that a clean tank promotes coralline growth. Cleaniness by means of a quality protein skimmer, an ample amount of Live Rock and a good deep sand bed will cut down on Dissolved Organic Compounds (DOC's). These have a direct effect on Alkalinity, driving down your dKH. Calcium is also affected, and without these two in proper ratio, coralline cannot flourish.


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## n1zjd

The light is a Coralife Lunar Aqualight 2x65W with 2 3/4W Leds. It has a panel that separates the bulbs from the water anyway and its suspended above the tank on the legs so Im not particularly concerned.

As to the coraline, dont get me wrong, Im not trying to argue with you, but there wasnt any visible coraline on that rock before the snails got to it. Unless it was under the algae/detritus that they cleaned off of it. 

Now I may have done something stupid. I ordered quite alot of coral. I guess worst case scenario they dont make it and I lose some money. But I ordered 4 different Ricordias, 3 different Mushrooms, 2 Feather dusters, a Green Star Polyp, and a Candy Apple Zoa. They should be here either Thursday or Friday depending on when the payment goes through. 

I didnt actually intend to get this much at once but there was a sale going on and shipping was free with an order of $150 or more :-D. Keep in mind though, these will all be approximately quarter size pieces.

I re-did the aquascaping today as well. I like it much better. There are several larger caves now that the Dwarf Flame will enjoy in the future. And a lot more places to put coral now!

Now Ive got a question regarding the lighting. I know most people turn on the Actinics an hour before the Daylights and the Daylights off an hour before the Actinics go off. Is this important? Right now I only have a single timer but will get one more appropriate when I make another order, which will probably be in a couple of weeks.

Ill post a picture either later today or tomorrow. I was going to use the money I spent on corals for a new camera, but decided I would rather have the corals, lol.


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> The light is a Coralife Lunar Aqualight 2x65W with 2 3/4W Leds.
> 
> Now Ive got a question regarding the lighting. I know most people turn on the Actinics an hour before the Daylights and the Daylights off an hour before the Actinics go off. Is this important? Right now I only have a single timer but will get one more appropriate when I make another order, which will probably be in a couple of weeks.


This is a nice fixture for what you have bought so far in coral. 

It is not overly important that you put these on seperate light schedules right away, but we like to keep our marine animals on a schedule as close to natural as possible. The actinics coming on an hour before the daytimes replicates dawn and vice versa for dusk. You should be fine on the single timer til then. Or just get a temp timer for like $5 at your local hardware store...



n1zjd said:


> As to the coraline, dont get me wrong, Im not trying to argue with you, but there wasnt any visible coraline on that rock before the snails got to it. Unless it was under the algae/detritus that they cleaned off of it.


I'm sorry if you thought I was disagreeing. I was just thinking aloud. 



n1zjd said:


> Now I may have done something stupid. I ordered quite alot of coral. I guess worst case scenario they dont make it and I lose some money. But I ordered 4 different Ricordias, 3 different Mushrooms, 2 Feather dusters, a Green Star Polyp, and a Candy Apple Zoa. They should be here either Thursday or Friday depending on when the payment goes through.


You didn't do anything wrong at all. I personally would've taken it a little slower as not to add a ton of life at once and have the individual pieces acclimate to the enviroment one at a time. I don't think that this will cause any problems, just make sure that they are free of parasites before you add them, such as nudibranches and the such.

p.s. - Those Feather Dusters probably will not survive. I had naturally occuring feather dusters that hitchhiked on some of the Live Rock I had purchased. They had spread like crazy when I first had my 46, which was dirty as sin because of the filter pads I never removed (three: one on the skimmer, one on the overflow and one on the return pump). After I removed those pads, they had started to slowly shrink in population. They are filter feeders. This is the same reason that people have a hard time with clams and scallops and the such. Your water would have to be green as grass to have enough food for most filter feeders to survive. 

I hope that the feather dusters survive. I am just letting you know that if they don't, don't think it was because they were a bad shipment or anything like that. Everything else looks like great beginner corals! Good luck!


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## n1zjd

Cool, thanks for the info on the Feather Dusters. I currently have two that are doing fine but now dont expect them to live forever. 

And no I didnt take it like you were disagreeing with me, I just didnt want to come across like I was disagreeing with someone far more knowledgeable and experienced than me. 

And personally I would have rather introduced the corals much slower as well but my local store doesnt have alot of the things I wanted and instead of spend $25 shipping each time I just went ahead and got them. Hopefully they all do well, we will see together!

Everyone seems to have dealt with the stress today fairly well except for the Red Fire shrimp who is still inside the prefilter box for the skimmer, lol. Now dont be alarmed, its the return side and he has hung out in there before. He can only go so far before he runs into the sponge thats in there to prevent microbubbles. I expect he will be out a bit later on.


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## wake49

a


n1zjd said:


> And personally I would have rather introduced the corals much slower as well but my local store doesnt have alot of the things I wanted and instead of spend $25 shipping each time I just went ahead and got them. Hopefully they all do well, we will see together!


You're fine. I think that if I ever get into web-ordering frags (this is much more eco-friendly as you can specify to buy ORA specifically), I will set up a frag tank to Q them and add them accordingly.



n1zjd said:


> He can only go so far before he runs into the sponge thats in there to prevent microbubbles.


Is this sponge necessary? It is a nutrient trap...


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## n1zjd

Oh forgot to mention that I will pickup another cheap timer in the meantime.

Now Ive got a question about my Q Tank. The bottom has a whitish HARD layer of something.. Can anyone tell me what this might be? Is it calcium? Salt? Ever seen or heard of this before? Ive drained the tank today because I used it when I aquascaped and it introduced alot of filth. I dont plan to use it for a Q tank for quite some time so I will just be using it for mixing water for water changes.

Edit: Oops didnt see your reply as I never refreshed the page. The sponge is on the return side of the skimmer. No its not absolutely necessary, its purpose is to stop the micro bubbles from entering the tank. If the skimmer is working like is should be there shouldnt be any problem right? I asked Pasfur about it in another thread and he said it was fine since its after the skimmer.


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## Pasfur

The sponge being after the skimmer is the deal here. It will be fine. Just make sure you are cleaning it every week or so, because it will still become biologically active it you allow bacteria to grow there. Rinse it under tap.


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## wake49

OK. I didn't realize it was on on the output.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## n1zjd

NOW you tell me to clean it! Wow, thats not an easy task to be honest. I might have to try it without it and see how the micro bubbles are. But needless to say I need to get it out of there for cleaning as it hasnt been done yet! I need to make myself some sort of hook that I can stick in there to pull it out. Putting it back in isnt as big a deal as getting it out. 

Any idea as to what that hard layer is at the bottom of the Q tank? I can scratch it and see where the scratch is but its HARD. The only way I would be able to get rid of it would be with a razor blade. Like I said its white/off white.


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## n1zjd

Alright, Ive got to come clean. Ive always been one who took pride in being honest and owning up to my own mistakes. I made a couple additions to the tank that went un-noticed/un-told. As of now water tests are reading just fine so I hope I didnt do any harm in not waiting longer.... Saturday I added two fish, a Banggai Cardinal and a Pink Spotted Watchman Goby. 

Both fish are doing great and there has been NO conflicts between any of the fish.

Now Im sure one of the main concerns one might have when reading this is whether or not the fish were quarantined. Well, no, I didnt quarantine them. However I have personally been watching these two fish for over a month at my local store and they are in great health. Ive checked on them weekly and saw no signs of disease or anything else to be worried about.

I apologize for not being upfront when I first added them. The main reason for adding them when I did was because the wife fell in love with that goby the first time she saw it, so I purchased it weeks ago. Well her birthday was Sunday so I went and got it to surprise her for her birthday. I accept responsibility for any consequences that may arise from this but I had to come clean. 

With that said, the goby was shy for the first couple of days being in its new home but had started to come out more often by this morning. I have yet to witness this fish eat since bringing it home. Since I re-did the aquascaping this fish has completely changed. Its not far more confident/secure and comes out of hiding ALOT now. Before any movement at all near the tank and it was gone. Now I can walk right up to the tank and watch him/her. Its also showing an interest in feeding now I believe. Twice today I watched it curiously looking around and then all of a sudden take right off, grab a Nassarius snail, and run back to its cave (which is right in the front of the tank now!). Now I dont know what this behavior is but it doesnt seem to be eating the snail or anything. Seems to drop it near the entrance to the cave. Almost seems as though its working with the snails like it would be warning a pistol shrimp? 

In fact, all of the fish have responded better since redoing the aquascape. So Im very happy with the change. So the tank is now fully stocked with fish except for the future addition of the Flame angel but there is no plan in the near future to add one. Maybe a month or two down the road or longer. Forgive me everyone. I promise I will do better in the future and make smarter choices.


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## Pasfur

n1zjd said:


> Alright, Ive got to come clean. Ive always been one who took pride in being honest and owning up to my own mistakes. I made a couple additions to the tank that went un-noticed/un-told. As of now water tests are reading just fine so I hope I didnt do any harm in not waiting longer.... Saturday I added two fish, a Banggai Cardinal and a Pink Spotted Watchman Goby.


Were you able to convince yourself that you didn't really add the fish? ;-) LOL 

Remember, this is your tank, not ours. We may sometimes get frustrated when people continually ignore good advice, but our advice is just a suggestion. I am telling you what I would, that doesn't mean you have to do it! My only hope would be that you take in the suggestions and make decisions for a reason, which is exactly what you did.

Glad the fish are doing well & Happy Birthday to your wife.


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## n1zjd

As far as I know Ive listened to all advice and applied it successfully. I believe this was a poor choice on my part but so far so good. Thankfully the stocking of fish is complete for quite some time so I wont be making anymore foolish choices. Now I get to play with some corals and enjoy my tank. Heres a pic of the new aquascaping under just the actinics.














































Sorry for the quality of the photos. I had the camera on the wrong setting. And the camera itself isnt very good to begin with.


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## Pasfur

Looks great. Just one suggestion. That rock on the left side, sitting on top touching the glass. You may want to move it. It is never a good idea to use the wall of the tank as a resting place. It is to easy for a snail to create enough friction to force the rock to slide across the glass. You'd be surprised!


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## n1zjd

Roger that. Im actually hoping to get one more small flat rock to make one more 'shelf' for the right side of the tank. So if I find the rock Im looking for I will use that one for the other 'leg' to support it. Thanks for looking out!


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## n1zjd

Any idea what this might be if anything? 










Heres the Pink Spotted Watchman on lookout


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## n1zjd

OMG I am a moron! That sponge was just plain AWFUL. Pulling it out literally clouded the water.... I did a 5 gallon water change to try and improve the situation. Im going to run the skimmer for a while without a sponge and see how bad the bubbles are. Like an idiot I assumed what goes into the skimmer comes out as skimmate or clean water. Bad assumption. Lesson learned. 

I would like to believe its not going to hurt the water quality a whole lot since its been there all along... Stressing once again. Ill run the skimmer for a good week without the sponge and see how things look. Also, is this skimmer really that much more efficient with the surface skimmer box? To the naked eye there appears to be more DOC's in the water column than there are on the surface. Really disappointed with myself here. Ill keep everyone posted. And test all params tonight when the kids go to bed.

Edit: Changed my mind. I put it new sponge back in. Too many micro bubbles. Im going to clean it every 3 days from now on!


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## marine666

Hi mate, your tank is looking great. how long is that your tank's been running. if you get time can you post some more pics of your corals. keep up the good work


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## wake49

That Pink-Spotted Goby is very nice! The colors are very pronounced!

What in pic #1 am I looking at? The rock looks to me (I can't really tell, it's kinda blurry) to be a coral skeleton, covered with a little coralline.


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## n1zjd

Haha is that all it is? Thought maybe it was some type of coral. Well I tried, lol. Thanks, yeah that goby is a nice fish. Since redoing the rockwork it spends all kinds of time out in the open. 

Marine666: Thanks! Tank has been running for 5 weeks now. There are currently only two corals but I will post pics of them if you would like. They are nothing special, just a Capnella and Flower Leather. My new corals should be here Friday I believe. I might go get one Thursday as well and try my luck on a hard coral, a Daisy Green Pipe Organ.

Wake you think the Pipe Organ would make it if I keep it up high?


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> Wake you think the Pipe Organ would make it if I keep it up high?


I am not loving it. I think that a lot of hobbyists have a hard time with this one, as it is a very fragile coral. Too much current can damage it and it has a higher lighting requirement than other softies. I think that star polyps would be a better fit, but make sure that you keep them isolated, as they can grow FAST!


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## n1zjd

Argg. They are on sale this week for $20. In your opinion I would be just throwing away a $20 bill and taking the life of an animal that someone else could possibly keep alive?


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## wake49

I wouldn't go that far. It is not like it is a Sun Coral, which I have yet to see someone keep alive. I would say that under PC's, I would spot feed it. But not too much, or on any regular schedule. If you get some corals used to a feeding schedule, they tend to only come out for feeding. I will go a week without spot feeding, or sometimes I will go back to back days. It will keep them sweeping for food in the water column.

Pipe Organs are by no means impossible, just one of the harder species. I hate to see you pass up this deal, but be aware. Is it farm-raised?


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## n1zjd

http://www.aquacorals.com/SHOPCoralsHardLPS.htm

Ugh, Im afraid not. These ones appear to be Wild Collected. For $20 I feel like I should give it a shot. Im completely against trying something that I feel I wont be giving a fair chance at surviving though. Argg. I will be going to the LFS Thursday so if they have any left I will go ahead and give it a shot I guess.

Im also going to be looking for a few select rocks as well. Where it would go is currently about 6 1/2" from the bulbs or so. Maybe 7". I could get it up a bit here if that would be better. The wife loves the looks of it so I might as well give it a try. We will see

Good to know about the Sun Coral, because I was loving that piece! Gotta love having access to you folks knowledge!


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## n1zjd

So are you confident the thing in the middle of that pic is just a skeleton and not Porites? Bummer. Oh well, Ill have coral soon enough.


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> So are you confident the thing in the middle of that pic is just a skeleton and not Porites? Bummer. Oh well, Ill have coral soon enough.


Can you get me a new pic. I had a hard time with the clarity of that one. But I am pretty sure that it's just skeleton. You didn't buy it as a coral, did you?


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## n1zjd

Nope just something that was on my liverock. I will post a picture later when the daylights are on. Your probably right and its dead. I might go get that Pipe Organ tonight because my other corals are scheduled to arrive tomorrow so I want to be sure Im home when they get here.


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## Pasfur

One thing I can add is that I often see very unhealthy looking Pipe Organ available at the LFS. Don't throw your money away and don't support the LFS purchasing poor livestock. Make sure you get a healthy specimen.


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## n1zjd

These are healthy specimens. You can see the exact ones in question in the link I posted a couple posts up. Anyway, Ive decided against it. I have no experience with corals of ANY kind right now so I feel it wouldnt have a good chance under my care. Ill work with the softies that will be here tomorrow for a couple months and see how I do there. Ill be honest, Im nervous about keeping these happy as it is.


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## Pasfur

I think you are making a wise choice. There is a lot more to this hobby than book knowledge. Some things you can only recognize after having hands on experience, which is what separates the easy corals (and fish) from the difficult ones!


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## n1zjd

My corals are supposed to be here tomorrow. I would love any info/suggestions for proper acclimation. Such as what should I do about lighting. Keep them off the the day at least? Run just actinic or just daylight? Is a FW dip beneficial or to be avoided? Anything you might be able to tell me in order for these corals to have the best chance of success would be greatly appreciated!


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> My corals are supposed to be here tomorrow. I would love any info/suggestions for proper acclimation. Such as what should I do about lighting. Keep them off the the day at least? Run just actinic or just daylight? Is a FW dip beneficial or to be avoided? Anything you might be able to tell me in order for these corals to have the best chance of success would be greatly appreciated!


This is where a frag tank works beautifully! I do not think that a FW dip is neccessary. I think that it could be detrimental to some corals as the shock could stop the polyps from opening. 

I would thoroughly inspect the corals that are going into the tank for worms, nudis, and any other visible parasites. After that I would place them in the tank where you think they will get the appropriate light. Zoas put in the middle if the tank, in a medium flow area. Mushrooms will do better if you keep them in shaded areas, low-current. Keep star polyps (if you have any) in a low-flow area. This might keep them from overpopulating. I think whatever your lights are doing at the time they are introduced should be fine.

They may take a day or two to open up and become fully acclimated to their new enviroment. Most online coral companies ship corals in little to no water, so don't think it's detrimental if they are not submerged when you recieve them. Just let any excess water drip from them and rinse them with a little tnak water before putting them in your tank.


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## Pasfur

I only keep softies, so I asked Wake to give details. It appears he does the exact same process that I do with my corals, and live rock.


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## n1zjd

Wow are these things small! I was expecting small but not this small.... Now I see why my LFS wants so much for the pieces she has! Well I hope they all make it. They are currently drip acclimating. Ill do it for the next 2 hours as per instructed. The pistol shrimp appears to be DOA but I will give it a chance.. These things are almost small enough to need a macro lens to take a picture of them lol

The feather dusters on the other hand..... They need a 75G tank just for themselves! Haha, Ill let everyone know how it goes

EDIT: Thanks for the info on what to do to acclimate them. Ill inspect them all very carefully before putting them in the tank. Cheers.


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> Wow are these things small! I was expecting small but not this small....


Take pics after you get it all set up so we can see the new additions! (I don't care how small they are, I have pretty good eyes...;-))

And you think they are small now, they will be taking over your tank soon. There should be a saying: "One polyp = One hundred!" lol


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## n1zjd

Yeah I hear ya. They will obviously grow, its just hard to imagine that right now lol Ive spotted one worm so far in the acclimation bags. I dont know much about worms but its not similar to any that I already have so I will do my best to see it doesnt make it into the tank when the time comes. I really cant get over the size of these feather dusters.....GIGANTIC. Haha

Pretty sure the shrimp isnt going to make it. If thats the only loss I will still be completely satisfied! I only got the shrimp because the price was way cheaper than my LFS. I can always get one locally if it doesnt live which im pretty sure it wont. The corals are the most important to me.


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> Pretty sure the shrimp isnt going to make it. If thats the only loss I will still be completely satisfied!


I am pretty sure that these online places have an "arrive Alive Guarantee". You should check that out.


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## n1zjd

Yes they do. But I would feel bad making them do another overnight delivery for a pistol shrimp that cost something like $5 lol. Maybe I can talk them into a voucher for free shipping on another smaller order instead. I would rather that than just have them ship out a replacement shrimp personally. Shipping was free on orders of $150 or more. I dont think I need another $150 worth of corals now but they might have something else I would like that would make the free shipping worth while. Ill figure out what to do later on.


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> Maybe I can talk them into a voucher for free shipping on another smaller order instead.


 I think that they just credit you the money of the passed item.


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## n1zjd

Haha yeah that would probably make more sense! Well they are all in the tank. Some dont look very good right now. Boy do they glow under the actinic! Im going to give them 10-15 minutes under just the actinic and then turn the daylight on as well. Ive got my fingers crossed that they all make it. 

What am I supposed to use to glue them to the rocks? Right now Ive got the ricordias and the mushrooms on the sandbed....


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> What am I supposed to use to glue them to the rocks? Right now Ive got the ricordias and the mushrooms on the sandbed....


 They didn't come on plugs?!?! My LFS uses super-glue to glue the mushrooms and such to plugs, but out of the water.

I would give them a day or so before they start to open up real nice...


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## n1zjd

No most came on rocks or something else hard and white, lol. Almost looks like a clam shell maybe for the ricordias. They all appear to be looking fairly good. The Zoas have started opening as well as the GSP. The mushrooms look ok but not great. The ricordias look pretty descent. 

What the heck is with my Pink Spotted Watchman and taking snails and now hermits to its cave? Any ideas? I did a google search but didnt come up with anything. Ive yet to see this fish eat but it sifts sand most all day long. 

You will have to wait until my wife gets home for pics, the batteries in the camera are dead 

Edit: Another search turned up some people with the same issues. Usually dont eat them though. I will have to keep an eye on it. I think he justs grabs them, takes them to his cave and drops them but Im not sure.


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## n1zjd

Man my camera is worthless. 8.2 megapixels of blur..... Anyway, heres the best shots I was able to get


















They actually look better than this worthless camera gives them credit for..


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## onefish2fish

looks like you got yourself some nice first pieces. the watermelon zoos are in a nice mini colony and should be slowly spreading before you even know it. as for mushrooms glued to plugs or rocks this can work but tends to be tricky because of their slime. personally ill cut a shroom like a pizza, lets say into 1/4s and drop them into my tank. in some time there will be 3 or 4 new shrooms randomly showing up from the pieces. i let the pieces attach where ever they "land" in my tank. you might not want to do this, since these are your first ones and if thats the case, wait until they reproduce on their own before trying to cut one, this way you have a back up. im not sure how well this method of propagating works on rics. ive been planning out a new setup for sometime now and the idea of a mushroom garden has crossed my mind. im not sure if im going to go through with that idea though. you may have just inspired me. thank you.
as for the goby taking shells back to its burrow i can only guess it is using them as a "door" at night. it is pretty common for sea life to use pieces of shells or rocks to cover their holes for protection as an open hole makes an easy target for an eel to slide into. ive also had pistol shrimp selectively pick certain pieces of shells/rock and whatever it found and build its burrow with it, as well as around the hole outside its burrow. it is very well possible this is what your fish is doing, its just that the shells it is choosing are walking away by morning.


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## onefish2fish

exactly what camera are you using?


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## n1zjd

The camera is a kodak easyshare C813. The the zoos are actually supposed to be Candy Apple, lol. I know they dont look like the picture did when I ordered them. Im hoping they look like that later on though. Thanks for the tips on the mushrooms. They came glued to these rocks they are on. I was actually talking about gluing the rocks to my rock.

I think this camera just doesnt do well with low light. I have it tripod mounted when taking pics. Im not much of a photographer so it might be more me than the camera? Ill try to get some better pics when the daylights come on in an hour.


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## n1zjd

Bought a new camera today, heres a couple pictures.


















Even though this is a better camera its still not the greatest. This will be the last one I buy before purchasing a DSLR. The new one is a Canon Powershot SD1200 IS. Its good enough for what I need but within the next couple of years I will have a real camera! I just cant justify spending the money on one right now haha.

Well, Ive had some serious issues with salinity lately. I calibrated my refractometer this morning and salinity was HIGH. Tested it against the hydrometer which said 1.025. I added some RODI to bring it down a bit and the fish started acting weird. Well the shrimp did too. I got 10 hermits and I cant find any.... That darn goby is wreaking havoc on snails and hermits. Not sure what to do about it if anything. So right now Im really nervous about the state of my tank. Ill run a full line of tests tonight and see what they say.

I checked calibration on the refractometer again this afternoon and it was off again. I dont know whats going on.... Corals look ok and fish seem to be acting normal now. Salinity is still reading 1.025 with the hydrometer. Ill check again with the refractometer tonight when I run my tests. Its been a stressful day.


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## n1zjd

I just calibrated refractometer to zero, tested salinity and got 1.027. Rechecked calibration, zero. Tested with hydrometer get a reading of 1.024.5 Which one should I believe????????


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## wake49

Can you run some water to the LFS and get a third opinion? The reading that shows twice should be it...

What is your temp?


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## n1zjd

Temp is 76.5 LFS is 1.5 hours away so its not convenient to do so just to test salinity. I will add another small amount of RODI water tomorrow and bring it down a bit more. Both are reading high anyway, well 1.025 is on the high end anyway. As long as things continue to look ok Im not terribly concerned. I figure one more small adjustment will put me within safe zones on each piece of test equipment. Man my salinity may have been off for some time now....

I would hate to have to buy another refractometer as this one is only a month old but Im not wanting to trust anything right now. This is a stressful hobby!

EDIT: Hmm, well I was being a little dumb about calibrating the refractometer. The distilled water I use to calibrate it is at room temperature, that could be different than the tank temp. Ive got some in a ziplock floating in the tank right now to try this one more time. Ill retry in 30 minutes and let you know how it goes.


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## marine666

Man your coral's are looking great. i'm going to get some coral's in the next few week's theres a coral farm/factory about 1.5 hrs drive from my house so just going to go and pick some. How's your salinity doing.


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## n1zjd

I just tested again and checked calibration with distilled water that was at same temp as tank water. Calibration was right on, Salinity is 1.027 by according to refractometer. Making small adjustment right now.... Ive got my fingers crossed everything survives. Thanks for the comments marine666 I hope they all make it through my troubles.


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## marine666

I'm sure they'll be fine, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you just in case. remember once they have settled in to get some pic's on  just shows you that other peoples salinity must be incorrect when they only use a hydrometer.


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## n1zjd

Just a quick update. Everything is still doing good. Ive decided to trust the hydrometer for now until Im able to get a new refractometer. I just cant trust one that needs to be calibrated daily for some reason. Any recommendations on a good quality refract? Ive glued the ricordias down to their permanent home but the mushrooms are still sitting on the sandbed.

For anyone who might read through this thread while decided whether or not to start a SW tank, please think about the size tank you want. While a 29 is completely doable, take it from a 29 owner and go with a bigger tank! Youve just got so many more options when you go with a 4 or 6 foot tank. But dont let a smaller tank stop you! Its great fun no matter what size.

Ill try to get some pictures up in the next couple of days.


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## n1zjd

Alright, I know some corals can move but can they all move? Am I crazy or has one of my mushrooms decided to relocate itself?


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## marine666

Yeah i think mushrooms can move, i read some where a while ago that if you want to try and propagate your mushroom without cutting them up, if you aim a powerhead at them they will move because they dont like being in a high water flow area, and when they move they leave small foot prints which will grow into more mushrooms or time.


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## wake49

n1zjd said:


> Alright, I know some corals can move but can they all move? Am I crazy or has one of my mushrooms decided to relocate itself?


Yeah I have had my shrooms relocate all over my tank!


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## n1zjd

Hi all, just a quick update since I havent been around much lately. Things are still going smoothly. The corals either have gotten more comfortable or they are growing, not sure which. They are quite a bit larger than they were when I got them, at least a couple times bigger. I assume they are growing...lol Here are a couple pics,



























Ill try to get a good FTS up in the next couple days. There sandbed has some algae growing on it and some detritus that needs to be cleaned later today so I didnt want to post a pic hehe -Cheers, Mike.


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## aunt kymmie

Beautiful pics. Everything looks so healthy. Nice job.


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## n1zjd

aunt kymmie said:


> Beautiful pics. Everything looks so healthy. Nice job.


Thank you!

Alright, my LFS says DO NOT spot feed shrimp. Can anyone give me a good reason why I shouldnt feed my shrimp directly? He comes out at feeding time and waits for his mean out of the turkey baster just like the others. Talk about hand fed! I would love elaboration here. Thanks.


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## wake49

I do not spot feed shrimp, but I also see no harm in letting them eat what everyone else in the tank is eating.


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## n1zjd

Thanks wake49, that was basically my take on it as well. He comes right out and makes a point to be there to eat like everyone else, its not like I go looking for the shrimp to feed it. Well, Im beginning to think that these bottles of BIonic are going to go bad long before I ever need to use them! Ive gone more than two weeks now (almost 3) without doing a water change and Calcium and Alkalinity are a little low but still within safe range for the inhabitants. 

Now I realise I dont have any great bioload in the tank right now so maybe it will change in the months to come when the tank is full of corals, but right now, I need to do a water change before needing to supplement anything. So now my question is, what are the reasons for doing a water change? Is the biggest factor to replace trace elements? Nothing tests out of range to warrant a water change, but obviously we dont have a test kit for everything.... My Nitrates have even dropped since decreasing the feeding amount so there wasnt so much waste. So the only reason I can see for me to do a water change is to replenish things I cant test for.

All in all, Ill say Im very happy with the way things are going. Ive havent made any additions since the corals and everything/everyone appears to be happy and healthy with extremely little maintenance. The only thing I have to do regularely is top off with RODI due to what I lose through evap/skimming. I bet I can go a month without emptying my skimmer cup.....

The only thing that concerns me is the algae Im seeing. Now dont get me wrong, its not horrible but there is some. I try and stay on top of it and scraped the glass the other day with a razor blade for the first time. Their is some red hair type algae on the rock my flower leather is attached to as well as getting a few small spots of some black kind of algae on the sandbed. I would really like to do a small sump but Im just not seeing any reason to justify the addition couple hundred dollar investment at this point. If I was having problems then it would be different, but things are just so easy at this point.

Im about to make another addition to the tank, possibly this friday. A BTA (Bubble Tipped Anemone) for the clowns. Ive done my research on anemones and feel this species is my best chance at success. Ill let everyone know if/when I get it. Cheer, -Mike.


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## wake49

I do not think that your tank is mature enough for a RBTA. These should be a late addition to the tank, 6 months, a year after the tank matured. 

I do water changes because that is what I was taught to do. I do nothing big. Ten gallons once every week to week and a half. I change it right out of the sump, so I don't disrupt the display at all. I believe that it helps replace trace elements and keep my water chemistry stable. I would change about 2 gallons a week out of that 30 gallon.


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## n1zjd

I kinda figured someone would tell me just that. Basically the reason why I posted it. My LFS claims it will be fine so I figured I would get a second opinion. She has been successfully keeping reef tanks for 20+ years and her tanks are indeed impressive, but I tend to not trust alot of what she tells me because it goes against most everything that Ive read on the forums and in the one marine book Ive been reading off and on. 

I told the wife this as well, about waiting 6 months before introducing a RBTA, but since the LFS owner told her otherwise I feel its going to be inevitable that there is one in there before then but we will see. I know she doesnt want to see an animal die but one can only take so much misinformation before they decide to just do what they want, lol. Ill still try and convince her the tank isnt ready, but this is something I deal with on a week to week basis. I dont want it to come down to a death of a livestock but Ill be honest, Im about done trying to explain things. Her thoughts are always 'everything else is fine, and the LFS said it would be ok'....

Ill keep everyone posted as well as do a 2 gallon water change tonight. Oh, forgot I didnt post the Calc and Alk test results earlier so here they are, keep in mind, Im 3 days shy of 3 weeks since doing a water change. 

Calcium - 420 ppm
Alkalinity - 10 dKH

Also, they seem to be pretty much dropping evenly right? So if they are still low after the water change it would be safe to supplement both?


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## onefish2fish

ask your wife how cool it would be to NOT see the RBTA die and come home after work to a tank full of dead livestock. :wink:


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## n1zjd

I hear ya OF2F. We are waiting on one for now...

Okay now Ive got some questions. Ive got a couple different types of algae growing and got worried so I ran a full line of tests and here at the results

Temp - 79F
Salinity - 1.025
PH - 8.3

Nitrates - 5 ppm
Phosphate - 0 ppm
Calcium - 420 ppm
Alkalinity - 10 dKH

So my water change didnt do anything for calcium and Alkalinity but everything else seems to be just fine. 

Maybe the algae blooms are just normal? Not enough CUC? 

Ive got my skimmer dialed in now so that I get a full cup every two days of skimmate but its wet and requires me to top off twice daily now. The skimmate is nice and dirty not fairly clear like when I adjust it all the way down. I would like to adjust it more so that it doesnt remove as much water but Im not sure which way is the most efficient (most DOC's/least water, or more water but still lots of DOCs)? 

The recommended dose of each bottle of BIonic for my size tank is 5 ml, would it be ok to supplement 4 ml of each now?

Here are some pictures of the algae


























Thanks in advance. -Mike


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## marine666

Hi mike, I got a lot of algae when i was buffering for alkalinity at sand level, after i stopped buffering and left it to settle for a week it all went away think its to do with unbalance levels in the tank when you buffer. colin


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## n1zjd

marine666 said:


> Hi mike, I got a lot of algae when i was buffering for alkalinity at sand level, after i stopped buffering and left it to settle for a week it all went away think its to do with unbalance levels in the tank when you buffer. colin


I have yet to buffer anything. But its about time to need to do so.


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## Highland lake13

The second and third pictures are unfortunately cyno-bacteria. The red slime is a byproduct of the actual bacteria that live on the sand and rocks. I was/am battling some in my tanks. The best way to get rid of it is increasing the flow on the affected areas and decreasing the amount of extra food in the tank. For my 12G I bought another power head and that solved my problems and now it is gone. It sucks because soon it will cover the tank if you don’t take any action.


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## n1zjd

Thanks for the info Highland lake13! I will point a powerhead at it in the morning. There really isnt any uneated food left after feeding. Ive been paying close attention to it and only feed every other day. Ill look into another powerhead as well but will just move one tomorrow for the time being. Cheers, -Mike.

PS - anyone with info on using the BIonic please chime in and let me know if its ok to add, info a few posts up.


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## n1zjd

Well I didnt want to wait. I like to take action quickly when I know what Im dealing with. So I researched cyanobacteria and learned some things. Heres my plan of action. Reduce lighting temporarily to 8hrs a day and Ive got a powerhead aimed at it. I know now that my nitrates may have been higher before the algae showed up. Its spreading rather quickly so we will see if these changes help to control it. I will also be doing weekly 5 gal water changes from now on.


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## Highland lake13

Wow that was so quick! Good work on the research, and really good job on taking action quickly. The good thing about cyano-bacteria is that is doesn't attack/hurt the corals as long as it is taken care of quickly. Keep it up!


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## n1zjd

Ugh the more I read about it the more it worries me! I would elimate my lighting all togeather for a couple weeks but Im sure that would elimate my corals as well as the bacteria. Im going to aim for another 5 gallon water change today to help the situation as well as remove as much of it from the tank as I can. Now I see the reason for water changes! Ill keep everyone posted.


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## n1zjd

Well Im sad to announce that I have lost one of my ricordias. I saw yesterday that it had some white fuzzy stuff on it so I used the turkey baster to suck the stuff off of it. Well today a good half of it was covered with the stuff. Im pretty bummed as it was the largest one when open fully and my favorite. I removed it from the tank so it wouldnt continue to pollute the water. Ill be doing a 20% water change later on today and Ill be aiming for another one in a couple days time. 

I manually removed as much cyanobacteria as I could yesterday. From now on Ill be doing a weekly 20% water change until the conditions improve then I will change 10% weekly. Hopefully there wont be anymore losses.

Ill keep everyone updated. Cheers, -Mike.


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## n1zjd

Just completed a 7.5 gallon water change and vacuumed as much cyanobacteria as I could from the sandbed. Ive got the skimmer set to its lowest setting to remove as much DOC's as possible. Hopefully things begin to improve soon. No other coral losses thus far. Cheers, -Mike


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## n1zjd

Sorry its been so long since I have been around. I plan on moving the tank in a few days to a different room. Im not looking forward to moving the whole thing but it will be a good time to accomplish a lot. The best part is the room is going to be a dedicated office/fish room. I will have the SW tank in here as well as my FW tank.

Im still battling a cyanobacteria issue but I know the reason for it and hope to solve it soon after moving the tank into the new room. Then I can step up the maintanence drastically so my tank can finally thrive :-D

Other than the cyano everything is going just fine. All corals/fish/inverts are still doing fine. The corals are getting larger and the fish are good eaters and have not had any signs of disease. Im kinda embarrased to post a picture due to the cyano but I think I will try to post one up tomorrow so I can show folks the before and after pics of a tank that was receiving poor maintenance versus one that is properly taken care of.

Cheers


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