# flame angel



## evanlundberg4

So my newest fish, a flame angel, is starting to act weird. He's been rubbing on things periodically, a little darty and shakes his head from time to time. I have not been able to see any spots or anything on his body, however I believe this behavior is abnormal. Also I'm not sure but it seems like there's some patches on his tail and pectoral fins. I haven't observed any rapid breathing and he is eating pellets and brine shrimp. To me it seems he could very well have either ich or velvet. I'm considering a freshwater dip and hyposalinity as treatment because I have read angels are sensitive to copper. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions
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## Reefing Madness

Your ideas are sound. I'd guess ICH, and Hypo is relatively easy to do.


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## evanlundberg4

I have been trying to be hands off because I don't want extra stress but there's just no way around it. He has something. Anyway, fresh dip, use baking soda to raise pH, match temp to tank water and then plop him right back in the tank or should I rinse him after the dip in salt water first? There's like 1500 different ways people do these things. I am hoping its just ich. I know the symptoms are similar. Specific gravity goes down to 1.009-1.010 for hypo over the course of a few hours?
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## evanlundberg4

Also how long should I let salt water age before its safe for fish. I mixed up fresh new salt water to go in my qt tank. I figured it would be a good way to get as many free swimming parasites out as possible. Been mixed for a few hours now. 
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## evanlundberg4

So I just wanted to re introduce myself as that idiot new aquarist that ignores everyone's advice and puts new fish into his dt. Had to take my rocks all apart to get him and then he got tangled in the. Lesson learned the hard way. In the qt now and he ate a piece of shrimp just minutes after I put him in there so at least he's still somewhat ok. Dip and hypo are going to have to wait a few days.
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## Reefing Madness

Welp, if you were planning on a FW dip, I wouldn't have put him tinot Hypo also. The dip would kill the parasite. And I also would have left him alone for awhile. See what happens, if he continued to eat he would have been fine.


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## evanlundberg4

Well I matched my quarantine tank to my display tank so aside from the catching and new environment everything is the same. So at this point you are saying it would be better to just leave him alone as long as he's eating?
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## Reefing Madness

That's just my opinion, yes. The fish is capable of beating this himself. My Hippo Tang has had a few bouts of ICH, and I've never messed with him.


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## evanlundberg4

I see...my thought was preventing any more exposure to my other fish although most likely its too late with him having been in there three days.
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## Reefing Madness

evanlundberg4 said:


> I see...my thought was preventing any more exposure to my other fish although most likely its too late with him having been in there three days.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yup, they are already exposed.


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## evanlundberg4

Again patience is key.
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## Reefing Madness

Yes sir. Just watch em.


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## evanlundberg4

One last thing...should my other fish really start coming down with ich when does it get to the point where action is required? And then is it a pull them all into quarantine deal to wait out the parasites in the display?
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## 92smokeaccord

evanlundberg4 said:


> One last thing...should my other fish really start coming down with ich when does it get to the point where action is required? And then is it a pull them all into quarantine deal to wait out the parasites in the display?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Listen,if you only have fish and no coral or inverts you have the option of treating the hole tank for ich.2options. 1. You can medicate the hole tank and be fine but put stress on the fish more. 2. You can crank the heat. To 86 or so and leave it like that for a few months and rid ich like that with very less stress compaired to meds.either way you are gonna stress them out cause they are all xexposed now.don't add anymore fish or anything besides food and top offs of water.Gravel cleaning is highly recomended once a week on both options.


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## Reefing Madness

If you don't have any corals in the tank, hypo the DT. But, if you do, then yes, you pull them all into QT for 6 weeks.
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com


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## evanlundberg4

Yeah I have a handful of small corals plus crabs etc so display treatment is out. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for the pointers. Does this stuff ever go away? Say my fish never coffee down with it does that mean its gone?
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## 92smokeaccord

evanlundberg4 said:


> Yeah I have a handful of small corals plus crabs etc so display treatment is out. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for the pointers. Does this stuff ever go away? Say my fish never coffee down with it does that mean its gone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well since you have coral.crank the heat.heat prevents ich from breeding and will eventually kill it off After a few months.


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## Reefing Madness

Life span is 6 weeks. If it does not have a host it dies out.


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## evanlundberg4

What would be a safe temp to crank it to for some soft corals, macro algae, copepods, emerald crab, hermits and an assortment of snails? Will they all survive at a temp of 86?
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## Reefing Madness

Nope, don't move that temp up at all with all those things in there.


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## evanlundberg4

That's what I thought...I'm g gonna leave everything alone and see what happens. I'll post an update. Thanks
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## evanlundberg4

Yeah so I am almost 100% sure this us marine velvet. His fins are all frayed today and he's starting to get these almost fuzzy looking patches. If I remember correctly I need to do a copper treatment to fix this right? The fish ate quite a bit this afternoon so as bad as it is he's still at lest somewhat capable of fighting this. There are quite noticeable declines in how healthy he looks. Any thoughts on what I can do to save this guy?
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## evanlundberg4

Another twist I just thought of while I was driving. Like three or four weeks ago, about a week after I got my clown fish I noticed some of these same symptoms, the frayed fins and slight fuzzy like patches. However in my clowns it lasted only a day or two. I attributed it to possible fighting as I had noticed them nipping a couple times and didn't think anything of it. Then it went away and they've been fine since. I talked to the guy at my LFS and he suggested that its a bacterial infection. I'm baffled, don't know how to make heads or trails of it.
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## Reefing Madness

Yea, I'm with ya on this one. I'm not familiar enough with Velvet to give you even a guestimate on what you should do at this point. Ich on the other hand, well thats a different story. I don't know if you can let the fish go with that stuff, and see if they can battle that one out itself.
But, just from what I have read, Hyposalinity kills Velvet also.


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## evanlundberg4

Yeah I've read mixed reviews on it. I know its worse than ich. I gave him a freshwater dip and did a 50% watt change in the qt while he was in there. I believe that he looks better-ish. He doesn't have the white blotches all over him and I think his breathing has slowed some. I'm going to do another 50% water change tomorrow. Maybe I'll get lucky and slow this down so he can heal. Definitely got way worse today. Real bummer because I'm not sure I'll be able to save him at this point. Not swimming around really like he was before the dip. Been hiding all night.
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## Reefing Madness

Yea, sorry man, not alot of help at this point man. I've lost my share also. Sucks.


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## evanlundberg4

Well thanks for the advise anyway. I guess its better he really broke out in the qt than my main tank at least. Maybe my others will make it through without any problems. I'll let you know if he ends up pulling through.
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## Reefing Madness

:thumbsup:


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## evanlundberg4

That guy is still eating and was swimming around today. He definitely looks better. I don't think I've necessarily cured him. His fins are cleared up though still looking pretty ragged. Also I noticed as he swims he is fully extending all his fins now instead of tucking then up against his body. Those white patches are all gone as well. Looking promising that he may have a chance. Maybe in a few weeks he'll pull through.
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## Reefing Madness

Nice. I've also seen malnutrition do that to a fish.


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## evanlundberg4

Well he's certainly hungry enough. He will eat two types of pellets, a flake food, brine shrimp and mysis shrimp. I picked up this herbal antibacterial stuff at the LFS to help with his fins. Still looking a little ragged but he's swimming much more and not showing any signs of whatever was ailing him. Only problem with the antibacterial stuff is it kills any biological filter and I can't use activated carbon because that removes it so I have to do at least a 25% water change daily to keep good water quality. Kind of a pain but I'm only using it a couple days.
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## Reefing Madness

Good info for people to know.


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## evanlundberg4

Well at this point I would consider this a complete recovery. His fins are almost all healed up now. The only ones that haven't fully healed are the his lower pectoral fins. Just a little bit more to go. However the best part is with him all on his own I've been able to get him eating really well and I can actually almost hand feed him now. I think I definitely underestimated the value of a quarantine tank.
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## 92smokeaccord

Very happy ffor you.I want to add some info,in a qt tank there is almost no bacteria anyway only because there is no filter and only water from the display tank.so if you use medication on the qt it will kill of any bacteria but by the time the new cycle tries to start after he meds have done there job the fish should already be back in the display.also I'm very happy you cured ur lil friend I just went threw some thing similar it really sucks.
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## Reefing Madness

evanlundberg4 said:


> . I think I definitely underestimated the value of a quarantine tank.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Ah, but you don't know if he would have made a full recovery just being left alone, do we.


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## evanlundberg4

Nope we don't...I suppose there's a good possibility he may have. Admittedly I panicked so its hard to say now. I think being on his own though was very helpful and had I put him in there from the start it would have saved the catching at least. Its a learning experience that's for sure. I think in another week or so I'll put him back in the display. He's actually turned out to be a really docile friendly little guy. I think if I really tried I could get him to eat out of my hand.
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## Reefing Madness




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