# Stocking help! (75g)



## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm looking to stock my just set up 75 gallon tank and have been looking at different fish to put in it. I am planning on doing live plants which I will be buying to plant Wednesday and was wondering which plants would be good in such a large tank. Looking for something that will be dense for portions of it and a good floating plant too. Anyways, the fish I have been thinking about are:

Neon Tetra
Bolivian Ram
Turquoise Rainbowfish
Silver Hatchets
and some type of Corydoba.

My measured tap water and tank pH is 7.4 and I think the temperature needs to be around 77 for this combination? Any advice on my fish selections or criticism and good easy plant choices would be great!

Also, I'm not sure which fish to put in first since I'm just putting plants in and doing "plant cycling" with my live ones... maybe just the tetras for a while til things settle down?

Thanks everyone! I know it's a lot of questions....


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Anybody?


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

*Take it slow.*

First let me say welcome to TFK!



ytownxj said:


> I'm looking to stock my just set up 75 gallon tank and have been looking at different fish to put in it. I am planning on doing live plants which I will be buying to plant Wednesday and was wondering which plants would be good in such a large tank. Looking for something that will be dense for portions of it and a good floating plant too.


Good floating plants are usually something like Pennywort, Water Sprite, Wisteria even. Those have worked well for me.

Anubias serves as a good slow growth plant for a midgrown corner plant.

A main foreground plant you could pick a sword or crypt or some kind.

For background an Onion plant or Corkcrew Vallis would do well. Maybe even some Hairgrass. If you like Driftwood you could always get moss to attach to that.




ytownxj said:


> Anyways, the fish I have been thinking about are:
> 
> Neon Tetra
> Bolivian Ram
> ...


Those fish sound great together. I have neons, bolivian and corys in my 29.
Termato.Net

I would say you should have like 30+ Neon tetras because they look beautiful in HUGE schools
3-4 Bolivian Rams

and the rest you can decide based on stocking choice. That's my opinion.



ytownxj said:


> My measured tap water and tank pH is 7.4 and I think the temperature needs to be around 77 for this combination?


I keep my tank between 77-78 degrees. Don't let it get above 80 because the Bolivian will not like it at all.



ytownxj said:


> Also, I'm not sure which fish to put in first since I'm just putting plants in and doing "plant cycling" with my live ones... maybe just the tetras for a while til things settle down?
> 
> Thanks everyone! I know it's a lot of questions....


*Do you have another tank set up that you can seed this tank with?*
This is important and can save you a lot of time.

First I would put in the Neons. Get like 10-15 of them to initially get it going . THen you can go back and add another 10 (don't do more than 10 at once just to not throw the balance off. Some people might suggest less but I think 10 in a 75 is fine. 15 to start out with is fine i think too).

*I would add 15 Neon Tetras. Cycle the tank. Once stable (you read 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite for 2 days) add 10 neons a week until you hit the # of neons u want.*

Then add the corys.

Then the hatchets

THe last fish to go in are the Rainbowfish and then the Bolivian Rams.

Although the guide says this about neons: Care Level: Easy. Does well in a slightly more narrow range of water parameters and shouldn't be used to cycle an aquarium.

Read more: Neon Tetra (Paracheirodon innesi) Profile

I think that out of all the fish you picked the neons will be easiest to cycle with as you can keep track of them easier and their small. Also if you don't have too many and plants it shouldn't be a problem...and if u keep up with water changes.

If you just do 10-15 in a 75 gallon you should be fine. Ofc assuming plants as you are getting.

-----

Before you do anything, let us know if you have another tank set up.

*Do you have any water testing kits?*

---

In all honesty cycling the tank with the neons wont be good for them. You might not be thinking about it now but those fish will have problems because Ammonia and Nitrite are toxic to them.

I fish in cycled 1/2 my tanks before I learned and my fish are still paying for it with poor immune system. My water is now clear and perfect but the fish had the damage done to them.

You can always cycle a tank first and then put the fish in. You could always but that start up bacteria stuff.

*The easiest most inexpensive way to cycle a tank is to have an already established tank. Take ornaments, wood, rocks, some gravel, some sand, and the filter from that tank and put it in new tank. It will seed it with bacteria jump starting your cycle. I cycled my 5 gallon betta tank in 3 days this way.*


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I got caught up in all the other information I almost forgot the one of the most important things.

Do you know your water hardness. gH? kH?

This will tell you more about compatibility with these fish. Along with pH this is important.

Do you use well water or tap water. If tap water, you can find this information out online if you live in a big city or not a small town. They put it in the water report.

If not you can get a LFS store to test the water for you. You could even call the water department to ask them what the hardness is.

Here is a great article with all the information you need on Hardness, how to get the numbers and what they mean.

I would read this article: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/water-hardness-ph-freshwater-aquarium-73276/

This article on cycling may also be very helpful to you. It was very informative to me:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/beginners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

This is another article also on Stocking your tank. This may be helpful as well:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/basic-guide-freshwater-fish-stocking-38626/


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for the reply! That all is very helpful information and just what I was trying to figure out... for my responses to the questions above:

I don't have a tank to seed mine with, but i may be able to get something from a cousin who has a 75g up and running for some months now. 

I use tap water and know the pH is about 7.2-7.4... my general hardness I'm not sure of at the moment and i don't have a test for that in my API master test kit but I'll look and see if i can't figure that out from a website for my area or something like that.

Those articles I've read a couple times and I decided on plants since it should be nicer to the fish that go in it since (with enough plants) the toxins should mostly be soaked up by my plants. If this will be a process that is too hard on my neons, let me know and i'll look out for a more hardy fish to cycle the tank with. 

Also, a point i thought of but don't know the answer to, how will my plants eat til there is ammonia released into the water by my fish waste? Does fertilizer do this for them or do they require it as soon as they are placed in the tank? Don't want to kill my plants off by not having enough nutrients for them too...

Thanks so much!


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Actually, been thinking about the seed tank, I have a 700 gallon pond with plants and Koi out back with some rocks i could take out of it. Think this would be fine to seed my tank with?

Also, from my water source I found this information on water hardness:
Water treated by Newport News Waterworks is considered moderately soft (4-6 grains which is equal to
70-120 mg/L as calcium carbonate or CaCO3).


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

ytownxj said:


> Thanks for the reply! That all is very helpful information and just what I was trying to figure out... for my responses to the questions above:
> 
> I don't have a tank to seed mine with, but i may be able to get something from a cousin who has a 75g up and running for some months now.


That would really be beneficial and save you alot of trouble. IF you can get a rock, wood and some gravel that would be enough to kick start it. 

I nice sock full of substrate should work.



ytownxj said:


> I use tap water and know the pH is about 7.2-7.4... my general hardness I'm not sure of at the moment and i don't have a test for that in my API master test kit but I'll look and see if i can't figure that out from a website for my area or something like that.


You pH level is perfect. That is exactly my pH.

I you can't find that info online. Ask your local fish store. If they can't tell you should try to call the water company and see what they say before considering going out to buy a test kit. You wont be changing the hardness so no need to go waste money.



ytownxj said:


> Those articles I've read a couple times and I decided on plants since it should be nicer to the fish that go in it since (with enough plants) the toxins should mostly be soaked up by my plants. If this will be a process that is too hard on my neons, let me know and i'll look out for a more hardy fish to cycle the tank with.


If you seed with the tank with your cousins bacteria, add plants and don't have more than 15 neons you should be fine I think. Just don't put more than 15 in there. If you want to play it safe get like 10...but i dunno if they will produce enough ammonia or not I have not dealt with something as big as a 75 yet.

If you keep ammonia under 1ppm and Nitrite under .5ppm then the neons should not have a problem. Just do water changes to keep everything in check.

*Do you have a water conditioner yet?*
If not I HIGHLY recommend Seachem Prime as it is very potent and actually works to detoxify nitrite for 12 hours and it converts ammonia to ammonium.

----

*Just Note:* With any fish in cycle you cannot be surprised if one of your fish does get sick and dies. The best you can do if you choose to go this route it to keep up with the water changes.

Because you have the option to seed the tank, you could try to do a fishless cycle with the seeded medium and feed the tank fish food for ammonia. That would be the safest bet.



ytownxj said:


> Also, a point i thought of but don't know the answer to, how will my plants eat til there is ammonia released into the water by my fish waste? Does fertilizer do this for them or do they require it as soon as they are placed in the tank? Don't want to kill my plants off by not having enough nutrients for them too...
> 
> Thanks so much!


Fish create ammonia just by breathing so it wont take just the waste to produce ammonia. 

I don't really know too much on putting plants in without fish, but the fish will produce ammonia the second they go into the tank. All my plants I put in when I started my tanks did fine because of this.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

ytownxj said:


> Actually, been thinking about the seed tank, I have a 700 gallon pond with plants and Koi out back with some rocks i could take out of it. Think this would be fine to seed my tank with?
> 
> Also, from my water source I found this information on water hardness:
> Water treated by Newport News Waterworks is considered moderately soft (4-6 grains which is equal to
> 70-120 mg/L as calcium carbonate or CaCO3).


I think that will be perfect to seed the tank. How long has the pond been set up?

70-120 mg/L = aproximately 70-120ppm so

*4 - 8 dGH 70 - 140 ppm soft*

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...s-ph-freshwater-aquarium-73276/#ixzz1uyCmDJSA

This is good for Corys and the Bolivian Ram. Actually its great for all your fish. 

You know what you could throw in that mixture of yours. A Bristlenose Pleco.

That would top it off nicely.

I think with that you are set


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I must throw out a caution here on this seeding of bacteria. Using anything from an outdoor pond is dangerous, it could contain any number of foreign pathogens you do not want in an indoor aquarium.

Similarly, I would not use anything from someone else's aquarium; it may look healthy, but the fish can carry several pathogens and protozoans without themselves showing it, and it will infect your aquarium.

Seeding from your own tank if you had one running is usually OK, but never someone else's.

As you intend live plants, this will not be necessary anyway. The plants need nitrogen, and they prefer it as ammonium which they get from the ammonia produced by fish and bacteria. With sufficient fast-growing plants--and floating are ideal for this--and a few small fish, there will be no discernible "cycle" to worry about.

Byron.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Sounds great, thanks so much for all the help! I'll go buy some plants tomorrow after I check out what my LFS has in stock. And I'll grab 10 neons while i'm at it and set it all up! I'll keep everyone updated and post up some pics as soon as I can. If you think of anything else I should know then I'd love to hear it! 

Thanks for the caution Byron, I'll leave the stuff in the pond then and leave my cousin's tank stuff alone too and rely on the plants. Will beneficial bacteria grow to take up whatever part of the ammonia that the plants don't soak up?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> Sounds great, thanks so much for all the help! I'll go buy some plants tomorrow after I check out what my LFS has in stock. And I'll grab 10 neons while i'm at it and set it all up! I'll keep everyone updated and post up some pics as soon as I can. If you think of anything else I should know then I'd love to hear it!
> 
> Thanks for the caution Byron, I'll leave the stuff in the pond then and leave my cousin's tank stuff alone too and rely on the plants. Will beneficial bacteria grow to take up whatever part of the ammonia that the plants don't soak up?


Yes, but it will be so minimal you will not detect it with our test kits. Plants need ammonia/ammonium and lots of it. Just make sure you have lots of plants, esp fast growing ones, and those floating plants are best of all.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

So I bought some plants and 15 neon tetras for the aquarium, they look so tiny since there is so much room! I plan on having some rocks and some plants on the right side but my filter flow needs to be limited so it stops digging in the sand over there. In the mean time, I have some plants on the left side but couldn't find floating plants at the LFS, actually at 2 of them. Let me know if i'm going to need a lot more plants now or if this is an ok start. Here's some pics:


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## Jayy (Dec 23, 2009)

What plants did you get? I think I see water sprite.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

I believe I got water sprite, wisteria, a sword plant of some sort, a crypt, and two (should have got three) mondo grass. Kind of picked what looked nice in the store and decided I'll look up how full or tall they get once planted and make moves that need to be done to them then.


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## Jayy (Dec 23, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> I believe I got water sprite, wisteria, a sword plant of some sort, a crypt, and two (should have got three) mondo grass. Kind of picked what looked nice in the store and decided I'll look up how full or tall they get once planted and make moves that need to be done to them then.


Ok, what other fish do you plan to stock? Do you know yet?


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Yup, that's on the first post of this thread. The list is:

Neon Tetra
Bolivian Ram
Turquoise Rainbowfish
Silver Hatchets
and some type of Corydoba.
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/stocking-help-75g-101510/#ixzz1v5q5GE25That's the plan on fish for the moment. The only fish who is being considered still on that list is the hatchets, not sure if i'm crazy about them. May try and see if there are other options to fill their spot.
​


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## Jayy (Dec 23, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> Yup, that's on the first post of this thread. The list is:
> 
> Neon Tetra
> Bolivian Ram
> ...


Sounds good.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Dont get anymore Mondo Grass. it is not trully aquatic and may die off. Boo stores for selling it. Keep away from bamboo unless u want it coming out the top of the tank.

If you want that mondo look, try corkscrew vallis. Looks even better.

That is a good start. In a week if your ammonia and nitrite are 0, id suggest getting another 15 neons and some more plants to top it off.

You can actually float both the wisteria and the water sprite. They will root really nicely. I have wisteria floating in my 29.

I would get a good bit more of both of those. Also Java Fern is wonderful. 

If you find some nice rocks outside you like and test them with vinegar to make sure it eont bubble and harm your tank. You can really scrub the crap out of it, then soak it in conditioned water like Prime for over an hour. Then you can create a nice rock formation, caves, hiding spots or just a nice rock touch.

Byron what do you think of this? Ive done it twice.

Also, Byron, what do you think of the lighting for more plants?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

The rocks sounds like a great idea, I was thinking about going and looking at rock wholesalers for scrap pieces from cuts of some nice looking granite and making a formation with caves on the right side of the tank. I'll try the vinegar to see if it bubbles, didn't know about that trick before!


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

I have another question after observing my neons for a little while... They seem to nip at each other or at least chase each other around now and don't really look to be schooling very much. They were schooling in a very tight school last night for the first four hours home from the store at least that I know of. Now they are showing this seemingly aggressive behavior towards each other and I'm not sure how normal this is. Anybody have any idea?
Thanks


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I see Java Fern in the front left corner; that should not be planted in the substrate but attached to wood or rock--you can leave it floating temporarily. The thick "stem" from which the leaves and hair roots grow is a rhizome and if buried in the substrate it might rot.



> If you find some nice rocks outside you like and test them with vinegar to make sure it eont bubble and harm your tank. You can really scrub the crap out of it, then soak it in conditioned water like Prime for over an hour. Then you can create a nice rock formation, caves, hiding spots or just a nice rock touch.
> 
> Byron what do you think of this? Ive done it twice.


I use river rock (to represent rounded boulders) that I bought from a landscape/quarry outlet. Also some basalt slabs. The acid test will determine calcareous issues; vinegar is quite a weak acid but if it fizzes the rock is calcareous, but a better (stronger) acid to use is the Regent #2 from the API nitrate kit, just a couple drops on the rock. The risk with rock is that it might have absorbed toxic substances at some point in the past, so I would avoid rock collected near roads, buildings, farms, etc. where chemicals, oils, gasoline, pesticides, fertilizers would be more likely to occur.



> Also, Byron, what do you think of the lighting for more plants?


I didn't see mention made of what is over the tank now...may be fine, but I'd need to know what it is.



ytownxj said:


> I have another question after observing my neons for a little while... They seem to nip at each other or at least chase each other around now and don't really look to be schooling very much. They were schooling in a very tight school last night for the first four hours home from the store at least that I know of. Now they are showing this seemingly aggressive behavior towards each other and I'm not sure how normal this is. Anybody have any idea?
> Thanks


Normal. Shoaling fish (all tetra are) need a group, the more the better. But they will not remain together. When they are stressed, they usually close ranks, and that was what you saw yesterday; their uncertainty over a new environment caused them to remain together for safety. As they settle in they will spread out. Some species remain fairly close, hovering in the water; others swim around independently, or in smaller groups, or all together. The only species of tetra that really remains together and swims as a group almost constantly is the Rummynose.

As for the interaction, this is why they need a group. They have some level of hierarchy within the group, or they may play, or they may selecting mates to spawn, or... whatever.:lol: Characins frequently do what I refer to as sparring. The males will play "king of the mountain" like we used to when I was in school. Rarely is damage inflicted, but it is an essential part of the fish's social structure.


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## Sheldz (May 17, 2012)

Please check out my question! if you can help please 

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...-my-fish-livebearers-give-101742/#post1084631

Its about My Prego Fish


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks Byron, I have my fern floating around til I find him a rock now. 

And I'll use that acid from my API master kit to check any rocks I may find today if I get a chance to find any!

And it is great to know my neons are doing what is normal and that they aren't stressed out enough to be schooling tightly anymore today! I'm happy to know they are happier.



Byron said:


> I didn't see mention made of what is over the tank now...may be fine, but I'd need to know what it is.


Ok, so the lighting is something i'm trying to figure out myself.... Maybe you can "shed some light" on the topic for me, ha.

What it appears I have according to markings on the bulb (can't find any markings on the housing itself) is a GLO Life glo bulb. It also says, but hard to read since much is wiped off now, 34"; 89W?; HO; and Made in China (go figure). 

Since this is an older tank the lighting itself could be rather old and I'm not at all upset if I need to upgrade the lighting, not sure it's adequate myself since I can't seem to figure out online exactly what it is I do have in there. Let me know if this makes any sense and if it is inadequate, make me a suggestion about what I should get! Thanks for all the help, it's making this learning process much easier!


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Here are some pictures on the lighting topic that may clear things up a little:


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

ytownxj said:


> Thanks Byron, I have my fern floating around til I find him a rock now.
> 
> And I'll use that acid from my API master kit to check any rocks I may find today if I get a chance to find any!
> 
> ...


The 36" ones are 39 Watts not 89.

I dont see any 34" ones.

Amazon.com: Life-Glo II Fluorescent Bulb T5, 39 Watts - 34 inches, fits 36" light: Pet Supplies

The Life-Glo linear fluorescent light bulb is a T5 normal output bulb with a color temperature of 6700K

You have two of these side by side correct?

If so, then you should have enough lighting for moderate to low light plants. If you place high light plants right under the lights they should be fine.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

ytownxj said:


> Here are some pictures on the lighting topic that may clear things up a little:


Just buy another bulb so you have both in there.

Then you will be fine.

Maybe in the future you can add some additional reflectors to that hood.

I highly doubt you will need to buy any new hoods. Just get one new light for that empty slot.

----

Also if you find wood that you want to use you can boil it. That is usually just for small pieces though because you can't really fit a giant piece of wood in a pot. Do not boil the rocks though.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Sounds good, I'll go ahead and just get a new bulb then! I'll be going back to the fish store today or tomorrow and will get one then. 

One thing I'm having trouble with is keeping the temperature stable at 77-78 degrees. It seems to always want to hover right at high 79-80 degrees. Since I want Bolivian Ram in the future, I'm trying to figure out how to get the temp to stabilize at 78. 

What I think to be the cause of the problem is I have a 30 gallon sump with a Mag 9.5 pump feeding into my tank. Since this pump is submersible and therefore water cooled, I think this is the root of my temperature problem. Whatever temp I set the heater doesn't matter, it is set on 75 right now but the temp is reading 80.2 degrees. Any ideas out there on how to keep the water closer to my goal without a water chiller (wayy out of my price range)?


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

ytownxj said:


> Sounds good, I'll go ahead and just get a new bulb then! I'll be going back to the fish store today or tomorrow and will get one then.
> 
> One thing I'm having trouble with is keeping the temperature stable at 77-78 degrees. It seems to always want to hover right at high 79-80 degrees. Since I want Bolivian Ram in the future, I'm trying to figure out how to get the temp to stabilize at 78.
> 
> What I think to be the cause of the problem is I have a 30 gallon sump with a Mag 9.5 pump feeding into my tank. Since this pump is submersible and therefore water cooled, I think this is the root of my temperature problem. Whatever temp I set the heater doesn't matter, it is set on 75 right now but the temp is reading 80.2 degrees. Any ideas out there on how to keep the water closer to my goal without a water chiller (wayy out of my price range)?


So you have tried to lower the temp on the heater and that still wont work?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> Sounds good, I'll go ahead and just get a new bulb then! I'll be going back to the fish store today or tomorrow and will get one then.
> 
> One thing I'm having trouble with is keeping the temperature stable at 77-78 degrees. It seems to always want to hover right at high 79-80 degrees. Since I want Bolivian Ram in the future, I'm trying to figure out how to get the temp to stabilize at 78.
> 
> What I think to be the cause of the problem is I have a 30 gallon sump with a Mag 9.5 pump feeding into my tank. Since this pump is submersible and therefore water cooled, I think this is the root of my temperature problem. Whatever temp I set the heater doesn't matter, it is set on 75 right now but the temp is reading 80.2 degrees. Any ideas out there on how to keep the water closer to my goal without a water chiller (wayy out of my price range)?


Many heaters will actually maintain a temperature that is higher than the temp set. As long as it is consistent, this is fine. A cople of my heaters are set at 74 or 75 and they m aintain a temp of 77-78F. Turn it down slowly, by which i mean in small increments, and wait until the next day to turn it lower if it is still higher than 77F.

On the light, that is T5 HO light which is very bright. Two tubes will be OK with more plants, but until you have a good cover of floating plants I would not add a second tube. The white substrate reflects light too, and you don't want to have it much brighter for the fish. I would also suggest some chunks of bogwood, safest to buy this in a fish store; the Malaysian Driftwood is good.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

I'll dial back the temperature tonight then, it's been consistent at 80 for the past day or so. Don't think the pump generates enough heat to keep the heat from stabilizing? I bought a new tube but will wait out for more cover then. Is bogwood something that should be in addition to rock formations in the tank?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> I'll dial back the temperature tonight then, it's been consistent at 80 for the past day or so. Don't think the pump generates enough heat to keep the heat from stabilizing? I bought a new tube but will wait out for more cover then. Is bogwood something that should be in addition to rock formations in the tank?


Not sure on the pump question, but another aspect is the ambient room temperature. If it is close to the tank temperature, the heater adjustment will not likely result in cooler water since the room temp will tend tokeep it close to the room temp.

Bogwood is a nice addition to any aquarium containing forest fish that come from waters thick with fallen trees, branches, stumps, logs, etc. Not only appearance, but the release of even small amounts of tannins is beneficial to the fish.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

The driftwood is something I've been looking for in pet stores locally, looked in all but one and haven't been able to find any yet. It's looking like I'm going to have to buy some online and get it shipped to me. Malaysian driftwood it is.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Got some updates for everyone and a concern:

My malaysian driftwood will be in tomorrow! I've been checking the water levels and ammonia has never gone up. Nitrate on the other hand went up a little high (40ppm) the other night and I did a water change and am planning on doing another one tomorrow if the level is still high. I think it was one of my plants with a rotting stem and just loose leaves and stuff.

Anyways, my concern is with the plants and the substrate.  I've been reading more about my sand choice in substrate and getting a little worried about compacting and oxygen flow to the root systems. Would it be a good idea to dig out the sand, plant the plant, and then instead of filling back in with sand using some gravel (1-2mm) substrate? Or would you try to bag the sand idea all together (lots of work)? Any advice would be great, don't want to go through all this work to have the plants never take off for me!

Thanks a ton!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> Got some updates for everyone and a concern:
> 
> My malaysian driftwood will be in tomorrow! I've been checking the water levels and ammonia has never gone up. Nitrate on the other hand went up a little high (40ppm) the other night and I did a water change and am planning on doing another one tomorrow if the level is still high. I think it was one of my plants with a rotting stem and just loose leaves and stuff.
> 
> ...


There is no issue with sand, provided it is not too deep. From 2 to 3 inches overall depth in a 4-foot tank is fine, I have this in my 115g. Plant roots will easily push through sand, and that will keep it from compacting. There is where lots of substrate-rooted plants like the pygmy chain sword and chain sword, crypts, Vallisneria and larger swords with their extensive root systems do a good job. I also recommend Malaysian Livebearing snails, they burrow throughout the substrate. A few "dead spots" is also fine, this is natural, just leave them alone. I never mess down under my many chunks of wood and rock.

Byron.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for the advice on the sand, I was getting a little worried but feel much better now. Just added a bunch of plants and 15 more neon tetras. Got some updated pictures for everyone! The water has a little green hue to it, I think this is maybe some algae since my nitrates are a little high? Anyways I'm doing water changes to try to get rid of it.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

ytownxj said:


> The driftwood is something I've been looking for in pet stores locally, looked in all but one and haven't been able to find any yet. It's looking like I'm going to have to buy some online and get it shipped to me. Malaysian driftwood it is.


Do you have pictures of the new wood?

The tank is slowly coming together!

Yea do a water change and let us know how it goes.

How high are the nitrates? Did you test your tap water?

Edit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

I'll post pictures of the new wood soon, it's in a tupperware container soaking up water so it will actually sink in the tank. It's been in for 4 days now and I'm just waiting for it to happen. I'll test my nitrates after I get home from work tonight and give an update, the tap water didn't show any traces of nitrates when I tested it before, maybe I should do it again.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Don't overdo the water changes without reason. A new setup needs time to settled and establish the biological system. Cloudiness is normal with a new substrate and being bacterial needs time to establish; water changes will onlymake this worse visually.

That will be very lovely with some chunks of wood.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for the word of caution about water changes, what level should I keep my nitrates below so that I have a good reference for when I should be doing the water changes?

When should I add more fish? Everything seems pretty stable as with the exception of the rising nitrates.

Thanks!


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

ytownxj said:


> Thanks for the word of caution about water changes, what level should I keep my nitrates below so that I have a good reference for when I should be doing the water changes?
> 
> When should I add more fish? Everything seems pretty stable as with the exception of the rising nitrates.
> 
> Thanks!


I would not add more fish until you settle the nitrate issue and get is stable. 

What fish will you add next?

*What is your Nitrates at?*

At a standard rule I have heard of people keeping Nitrates bellow 20ppm. 

Check your tap water too just to have a good reference point.

I have high nitrate in my tap water so I get between 40-60ppm of Nitrate no matter what I do.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

This tank has been running with fish for about two weeks; what is the number for nitrates? And presumably ammonia and nitrite are zero? Have you tested the tap water on its own for nitrates?

To your question about water changes, normally (=in established tanks) they should be every week, and about 30-50% of the tank. The volume can vary depending upon the fish load and live plants, but the more water changed the better. Using higher nitrates as the "test" for a water change is not safe; regular partial water changes will maintain the nitrates low provided everything is in balance.

In new tanks the nitrates will fluctuate more, and more frequent water changes won't hurt. I may have misunderstood you previously, as I was assuming the water changes were only aimed at the cloudiness, and as I mentioned then this is irrelevant.

I'll answer your other question on adding fish when I know the nitrate number, for the tank and the tap. Also, what sort of fish are you thinking of adding next?

Byron.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Byron said:


> Using higher nitrates as the "test" for a water change is not safe; regular partial water changes will maintain the nitrates low provided everything is in balance.


One question Byron, what do you mean using higher nitrates?

Are you trying to say that regardless of the nitrate levels you should do a weekly water changes due to things like Phosphorus etc.?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Termato said:


> One question Byron, what do you mean using higher nitrates?
> 
> Are you trying to say that regardless of the nitrate levels you should do a weekly water changes due to things like Phosphorus etc.?


Regular partial water changes are necessary no matter what; the benefits are enormous [I really must get that article finished:roll:]. There are several reasons for doing water changes, and no tests can indicate these. Nitrate is the one most often mentioned, and it is true that if nitrates that have been at say 10 ppm suddenly rise to 20ppm something may be wrong, but by then whatever it is has happened, and the effect on the fish has taken place. A water change then may relieve things, but the better course is to maintain consistently stable water conditions, rather than wait for trouble and then trying to fix it.

Prevention is preferable to cure.

Any tank with live fish, plants or not, will benefit from a regular weekly water change. The volume can depend upon the fish load, and if plants are present. I have always done 50% water changes weekly on all may tanks for 15+ years, and my nitrates are always zero to 5ppm depending upon the tank. Water stability is more certain with regular substantial water changes.

Byron.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Byron said:


> Regular partial water changes are necessary no matter what; the benefits are enormous [I really must get that article finished:roll:]. There are several reasons for doing water changes, and no tests can indicate these. Nitrate is the one most often mentioned, and it is true that if nitrates that have been at say 10 ppm suddenly rise to 20ppm something may be wrong, but by then whatever it is has happened, and the effect on the fish has taken place. A water change then may relieve things, but the better course is to maintain consistently stable water conditions, rather than wait for trouble and then trying to fix it.
> 
> Prevention is preferable to cure.
> 
> ...


I would really like to read that article when you have finished it.*

I have noticed that there is a build up of protein on the surface that gets to be very thick if the water is not changed, especially in my tanks with a lower current. 

Thanks Byron!


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

That's great information to know, as an answer to your question about my tap water, I checked it before and checked it two more times this morning for verification and there is no nitrates in the water according to my tests. I shook the bottle up good for two minutes or since I know this test can take some time to develop. My tank is presently (as of three hours ago) at 5ppm nitrates due to the recent water change. 

My next question concerns the algae bloom. It has gotten much worst and seems to be leaching light from my plants that I actually want in the tank. Visibility is terrible now and you can barely see the back of the tank. How do you feel about UV Sterilizers and would you recommend one?


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

ytownxj said:


> That's great information to know, as an answer to your question about my tap water, I checked it before and checked it two more times this morning for verification and there is no nitrates in the water according to my tests. I shook the bottle up good for two minutes or since I know this test can take some time to develop. My tank is presently (as of three hours ago) at 5ppm nitrates due to the recent water change.
> 
> My next question concerns the algae bloom. It has gotten much worst and seems to be leaching light from my plants that I actually want in the tank. Visibility is terrible now and you can barely see the back of the tank. How do you feel about UV Sterilizers and would you recommend one?


If you get readings of up to 20ppm of nitrate it should be fine.

How long are your lights on for. Reduce the time and clean the current algae.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

The algae is all water borne, how do I clean it except through water changes?


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Oh and my lights are one for 12 hours a day. Too long?


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## Jayy (Dec 23, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> Oh and my lights are one for 12 hours a day. Too long?


Yes!! Most people do between 6 and 8 hrs.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Jayy said:


> Yes!! Most people do between 6 and 8 hrs.


I do 10-11 Hours on my main tanks.

I keep the smaller tanks to 8-9 hours of light.

I have a lot of light on the main tanks and a good amount of floating plants to go with them.

I would reduce it to at least 8 hours (Like Jayy is saying) for now just to see if you get a good response. Then you can maybe raise it to 9 or 10.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Ok, that sounds like a good idea. Just don't want to starve my plants for light especially since they are so new and I want them to establish well!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> Ok, that sounds like a good idea. Just don't want to starve my plants for light especially since they are so new and I want them to establish well!


Remember the balance: plants can only use the light if it is balanced with nutrients. So more light (duration) does not mean improved plant growth, but may be the opposite, and encourage algae as I believe it is here.

Plants can do fine with as little as six hours of overhead light provided it is of sufficient intensity for their specific needs and the 17 nutrients are available. More light duration is fine, but the nutreitns must all be present accordingly.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for the info Byron, I still need to figure out if my lighting is appropriate for my tank as I have my doubts. The more I read the more confused I get about what is right and wrong about my florescent lights and how many I should have and how much brighter the HO bulbs are and all that stuff. Tomorrow sometime I'll figure out exactly what fixtures I have in there and I'll post it and see what everyone's opinions are.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Oh, and I've meant to mention for a while but last week with my last batch of plants some trumpet snails hitched a ride in! I'm enjoying them a lot and they are fun to try and find in the tank. I think there are three and I'm hoping they are doing a good job sifting sand and doing some general cleaning.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> Oh, and I've meant to mention for a while but last week with my last batch of plants some trumpet snails hitched a ride in! I'm enjoying them a lot and they are fun to try and find in the tank. I think there are three and I'm hoping they are doing a good job sifting sand and doing some general cleaning.


There will soon be many more than 3, I assure you. I have hundreds in my tanks, and I am glad they are there. The work they do in burrowing through the substrate, digesting waste and assisting the bacteria is very useful.

When you post the light fixture data I will respond on that.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Ok, so what kind of lighting I have is still a complete mystery to me but I'll put down what I know and maybe somebody can tell me what I have or point me in the right direction to what I should get. 

There is a T5 lighting fixture that I really don't know whether it is NO or HO with 2 bulbs in it. The first bulb we discovered earlier to be a

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Life-Glo-II-Fluorescent-Bulb-Watts/dp/B0017JHD12/"]







[/ame] Amazon.com: Life-Glo II Fluorescent Bulb T5, 39 Watts - 34 inches, fits 36" light: Pet Supplies

The other bulb in there is an Aqueon T5 36" 21W bulb at 6700K. 

There are some pictures here for reference:



















Any ideas what I got or if I should be looking to get something different? Thanks!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Going back in this thread, i see we did look at this previously, but now we have a bit more info. I'm fairly certain this is HO light, the linked data says this (on the package) and it makes sense, so we'll assume that it is T5 HO. This is a 75g tank, and the tubes are 34 inch, so using both should be manageable. Duration might have to be less, particularly with few plants, or you will have algae soup. The Life-Glo II is a good tube, expensive but good, I use the T8 Life-Flo as one of two tubes over my large tanks and the only tube on my single-tube tanks. The Aqueon tubes should be near-identical so it is fine. When it comes time to replace these, you could do one 6700K and one higher Kelvin, or stay with two much the same (6500K-6700K).

I see no reason to spend money on another fixture, if this one lights the tank. Lots of floating plants. Tubes need replacing every 12-18 months, they lose sufficient intensity to be risky after that.

Byron.


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

I agree with Byron that the amount of light you have now is more than enough.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Great! Not having to spend money is always a great thing, glad my lighting is adequate for my plants. The algae is beginning to die off a little it seems, I'll post some pics of the progress once it is pretty clear so you can see how bad it got! ha


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## Termato (Feb 21, 2012)

Can you post a full stocking list of your tank along with a full plant list when you post the picture?

I have some plant recommendations but I don't know all that you have right now.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Ok, I'll post some pictures and try to remember the real names of all the plants I put in my tank tomorrow sometime. I'd really like some ground cover of some sort, I think that would look really good. The tank is still not quite what I imagined, I think I need to choose just a few plants and have big bunches of them so they really fill out and look less like the tank has just a bunch of random plants thrown around.

And still waiting for my big piece of driftwood to sink...


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Ok, so the driftwood is still not sinking but I have some updated pictures and questions.

Mid algae crisis picture:










After the UV sterilizer cure and three days:










Clear again!

Now my questions are how do you keep your planted sand substrate tanks fertilized? Do you use tabs or liquid fertilizer or both? What are some good sand substrate plants as well as a nice looking floating plant? There's a floating plant in Byron's 115G tank that I really like and was wondering what that is as well... 

Since my light is good for some low light plants I think I will be sticking with plants that do better in those conditions especially since the fish seem to like lower light as well. 

Any help would be great! Thanks everyone


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Actually, I just realized Byron replied to my question about the floating plant already, it's Ceratopteris cornuta so I've already got some of that rooted in my tank so I'll have to float some of them to get my floating plants started! What I have in there currently isn't very pretty like that is.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I would get a couple more of those large swords, Echinodorus bleherae. Three or even four for that sized tank. If you do, don't have them equidistant, but stagger the plants.

On the fertilizer question, a complete liquid is all-purpose, since you have floating plants and substrate-rooted. Seachem's _Flourish Comprehensive Supplement_ or Brightwell Aquatics' _FlorinMulti_ are both good; with either, make sure it is exactly the one named, as they make other products in these lines. It also wouldn't hurt to use substrate tabs for the large swords; not essential with the liquid, but it does make a difference. Seachem's Flourish Tabs, not sure if BA make a tablet but they may do.

Byron.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Thank you for the information on fertilizing. Now I have a question about lights again. I am considering purchasing AquaticLife T5 HO Light Fixture - includes 2-48" T5 HO 54W 6,000K lamps, 2-48" T5 HO 54W Roseate Lamps, 4-1W Lunar LED's for night viewing. I am still not proficient at calculating the watts per gallon that would supply. Tank height is 18.5 inches from the bottom of the sand substrate. I am considering the light fixture for aesthetics and because I believe the light is too low in the aquarium. 

The link for the light is AquaticLife T5 HO Light Fixture W/ Lunar LEDs - Freshwater 
*
*


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

ytownxj said:


> Thank you for the information on fertilizing. Now I have a question about lights again. I am considering purchasing AquaticLife T5 HO Light Fixture - includes 2-48" T5 HO 54W 6,000K lamps, 2-48" T5 HO 54W Roseate Lamps, 4-1W Lunar LED's for night viewing. I am still not proficient at calculating the watts per gallon that would supply. Tank height is 18.5 inches from the bottom of the sand substrate. I am considering the light fixture for aesthetics and because I believe the light is too low in the aquarium.
> 
> The link for the light is AquaticLife T5 HO Light Fixture W/ Lunar LEDs - Freshwater


First, that is only a 24-inch wide fixture so it will not fit across your 4-foot tank. Second, even if it did, it is double the light you need. Earlier in this thread some of us were suggesting that new tubes in your present dual-tube fixture would be fine. Forget the watts per gallon, with all this new lighting this is rather meaningless.


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## ytownxj (Apr 22, 2012)

Great, it is reassuring to hear what I have is fine and I was just reading too much and getting worried. Thanks for all your help, I'm getting some more swords like you suggested soon to make it look more complete and filled out in the tank. Also once I put that driftwood in there and the plants I'll take some more pics. Also got 6 Julii Corys to add to the tank and they look very happy in their new home. Thanks for all your help!


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