# water change woes



## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

So I did a water change last night in my saltwater tank. I pre mixed my water the day before and I added a water treatment as well. Before I changed my water I also put a heater and a spare power head in the buckets, tested my water for correct pH and salinity. I figured that there would obviously be some disturbance in my tank with this project but this morning I woke up and my two damselfish had changed to a darker color and were laying on the bottom looking like they were gasping. Things got worse - they started swimming erratically and were getting blown around by the power heads. When I came home from work one was laying on the bottom and he ended up dying. Now the other one is drinking around the surface. I have no idea what I could've done. I put an air stone in to aerate the water. My firefish seems to be alright...eating, swimming normally. Anyone have any idea what is wrong?
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## 92smokeaccord (Jun 5, 2012)

evanlundberg4 said:


> So I did a water change last night in my saltwater tank. I pre mixed my water the day before and I added a water treatment as well. Before I changed my water I also put a heater and a spare power head in the buckets, tested my water for correct pH and salinity. I figured that there would obviously be some disturbance in my tank with this project but this morning I woke up and my two damselfish had changed to a darker color and were laying on the bottom looking like they were gasping. Things got worse - they started swimming erratically and were getting blown around by the power heads. When I came home from work one was laying on the bottom and he ended up dying. Now the other one is drinking around the surface. I have no idea what I could've done. I put an air stone in to aerate the water. My firefish seems to be alright...eating, swimming normally. Anyone have any idea what is wrong?
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what are your parameters?it sounds like ammonia poison.


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Yeah that's what I thought at first but my tests are showing nothing for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate and a pH of 8.1. My water is also at about 400 for calcium and 9 dkh for alkalinity.
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## 92smokeaccord (Jun 5, 2012)

evanlundberg4 said:


> Yeah that's what I thought at first but my tests are showing nothing for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate and a pH of 8.1. My water is also at about 400 for calcium and 9 dkh for alkalinity.
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test you water from the source aka tap or after ro/di system.if there is any ammonia that could have killed them even tho its not showing up now cause you're tank ate it by now.


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Ah I see....I will do that. I guess the well had a bleach treatment a few weeks back that I didn't know about
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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Have you watched those Damsels chase each other prior to your WC? I always advise against those fish, as they will chase each other to the point of death. But, one never knows. If your other fish is fine, thats what my guess is. They killed each other.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

How much water did you change?


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Yeah they chased each other a little bit. Mostly one that was slightly bigger chased the other one but they were healthy before. The bigger one actually died first. Additionally as the night has gone on my firefish isn't doing so well either. I figured he was just stressed because he was swimming and he ate but now I'm not so sure. He doesn't seem to have any strength. I changed like 10 gallons out of 55 so just under 20 percent. I'm at a loss and its looking like a newby move cost me my tank. Sucks
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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Was the original water from bleach treated water?


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

I used well water when I first filled the tank but that was before it had the bleach treatment.
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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

O would attribute it to the bleach treatment then. I personally only use tap water in my Freshwater tanks, as they can stand the water after I dose it with Amquel or Stresscoat. But in my Saltwater tank I use nothing but RO/Di water, as these creatures are a bit more sensitive than freshwater.


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm thinking that had to be it. Also I did some serious reading and if your water has chloramine in it and you use just a dechlorinator in it you can end up removing the chlorine but what's left is ammonia. Definitely not making that mistake again. I find it odd that my snails and hermits seem to be totally unphased by all this but at least it isn't a total loss. I knew they were more delicate than freshwater but I had no idea it was that easy to kill them.


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## 92smokeaccord (Jun 5, 2012)

i have my salt water tank up for 4 months or so and i still havent did a water change.1 because the bio load is next to nothing at the moment.2 im saving for a ro/di system.


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Dude honestly I think I should've just left it because I tested my water before my change and I had zeros across the board. Plus my calcium and alkalinity was fine too. Everything you read though online is saying water changes every week or two weeks.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I usually do 5% Water Changes once every month or maybe every other week (depending on the size of the tank) just to replace trace minerals. Water changes in marine aquariums do not have the same effect as in freshwater aquariums.

In freshwater aquaria, Ammonia is excreted by the fish in the form of respiration, urine and feces. This ammonia is broken down by oxidizing bacteria into NitrItes. These nitrites are still harmful to fish, but Nitrobacter bacteria break it down into NitrAtes, which are not as harmful to fish in moderate levels. Through regular water changes we reduce the nitrates to manageable levels in the aquarium, but never near zero ppm. That would take a 100% water change every week, and that would be stressful the fish. I do a 25% water change (5 gallons) in my twenty fresh on the first Saturday every month that begins with a two (hence this month it will be the 22nd).

In Marine aquaria, we are trying to achieve ZERO ppm on Nitrates. So when the nitrogen cycle turns NitrIte into NitrAte, the cycle cannot end there. Nitrification reduces the buffers in an aquarium, lowering Alkalinity. So Nitrates have an adverse effect on water quality, making it hard to keep Calcium and Alk in check. Since water changes alone only change the percentage of Nitrates in the system (never reduce them to zero without a 100% stressful wc), we need to attack the problem beforehand. 

Your live rock has deep-seeded denitrifying anaerobic bacteria that breaks down nitrates into Nitrogen gas that leaves the system naturally. A ddep sand bed (4"+) also harbors this denitrifying bacteria that breaks down nitrates into nitrogen gas. These two things coupled with a protein skimmer (which removes Dissolved Organic Compounds, eg urine and feces, before they are broken down by the nitrogen cycle. Activated Carbon also removes DOCs, but is a controversial method) can reduce and maintain a reading of 0ppm nitrates (or at least to a reading that is less than 5ppm).


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

I have a bunch of rock and like 2" sand bed. So basically with my skimmer and rock and sand I really shouldn't need to do these water changes unless I am low on minerals. I don't have any corals....def waiting on those following this episode....so nothing is really consuming my minerals. The longer I have this tank the more I'm being convinced that if I properly set it up and have adequate biofiltration its going to essentially run itself.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

I do WC every 3-4 months, for Trace Elements. And keep my Nitrates between 20-30ppm. Softies and LPS prefer alittle Nitrate in the water.


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Man alive...shows how much false info there is out there. Literally every book and most articles I've read say water changes every other week and big ones. If I'd left it alone I'd still have fish as I was under 5 ppm for nitrates. Left me with 4 snails and 5 hermits.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Reefing Madness said:


> I do WC every 3-4 months, for Trace Elements. And keep my Nitrates between 20-30ppm. Softies and LPS prefer alittle Nitrate in the water.


I personally never heard this. Do you have a reference? I would be interested in reading that article.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

SPS are the ones that need the clean water. Even Clams feed off of Nitrates. Ill hunt the articles down for you.


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## rhymon78 (Mar 17, 2012)

Did you check the SG/salinity with a reliable refractometer of your tank water before the WC? Its just if you hadn't done a WC for a while and have just been topping off with freshwater, the salinity would get lower and lower over time. Then mixed your own batch of salt, if this was a lot higher it might have shocked the fish? I have heard that marine fish can handle a reasonably fast decline in salinity, but struggle with it in the opposite direction.(Those more experienced please jump in and correct me if I am wrong here!)

Not sure of the science behind it..

I would look into either fixing an RO/DI unit to your system, or find a LFS that sells it... using well water is begging for trouble, especially if in an agricultural area, as your likely to experience nitrate issues at some point.. plus your having to add chemicals you don't want into your system with the water conditioners. Freshwater fish like others have mentioned can tolerate treated tap water, and in the most part are relatively inexpensive, not sure I would gamble the expense/time and effort in a marine system on water out of a well... IMO.

Sorry to hear of your troubles though, its never nice loosing fish... especially if you feel it was due to something you did. Good luck!


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Before I added it I made sure of my salinity and pH. They were pretty much the same but I suppose that is possible as well. I have an instant ocean hydrometer that I use because when I bought my refractometer it didn't come with calibrating fluid. I was so bummed out about my fish. Almost like losing a dog. Bottom line is no matter what I'm not using tap water again in my tank. My LFS sells ro/di water so makes it really easy...only 50 cents a gallon. 
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