# please help quick. cichlids something wrong



## lynchmob (Mar 6, 2010)

I have recently introduced 6 parrots, (range of sizes) and 10 malawi cichlids. after 2 weeks of happiness now i have had 3 deaths, all malawi's. and the parrots keep lying on the bottom. i checked my parameters and my amonia was high so i performed a massive water change and the amonia is now 0. but still massive problems. they just want to sleep. i want to do everyhthing i can to help them pull through. i keep going near them with a stick to stimulate them to swim instead of lying on the bottom. what else can i do?

i have identified they also have ich. i have marine salt if needed. but i dont think this is the major cause as they dont yet have any breathing probs. 

should i do more water changes? i think i have done over 60% so far?


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## Grimmjow (Jul 22, 2009)

16 fish at once?


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## lynchmob (Mar 6, 2010)

no over 2 weeks. still too quick i know.
what can i do to help the fish through????


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

lynchmob said:


> no over 2 weeks. still too quick i know.
> what can i do to help the fish through????


Pray.
Within the next 2 weeks i see another 8-10 dead. Why? Because the water did not have time to cycle.
What you can do is minimize damage by taking those fish to a friend that has a good aquarium for it or back to the shop and let your aquarium do it's cycle. Water changes will do 0 help unless the water has been dechlorinated, actually it will do more harm than good by killing the bacteria that did manage to form in those very short weeks.
You never add 16 cichlids at once, they produce way to much dirt! They eat a lot and what goes in must come out!
You also forgot to mention what size the tank is, what the other water parameters are, what filter you use, what temperature does the water have, is it planted or not, do you use fertilizers, etc.
The itch can be cured by turning the heat up to 30 degrees celsius for about... 5-7 days, that's how i always got it away from the fish. 
Also STOP the stick thing! you are not helping. When you are sick and feeling bad do you enjoy someone pushing you with a stick just to make you move? No.
And don't feed to much, lots of food = lots of dirt = bad water.


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## lynchmob (Mar 6, 2010)

i did declorinate the water. 40l of it was RO anyway. I foolishly thought that aging the tank for 2 weeks with small amounts of food in it would cycle the tank sufficiently. 

the tank is 300l, ph is 7.6 -7.8. ammonia nitrite are now 0 , nitrate has small reading. i use an external ehiem canister filter. water is now about 28 increasing it slowly. no plant or fertilisers. 

i fear that allowing them to lye there for prolonged periods they will get worse but i have stopped annoying them now. would the addition of salt help? anything i can do to nurse them through?

thanks in advance for your help.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

I would advice adding drops of Sera Fishtamins to the food they get. It seemed to help my fish when they had a itch problem. Also try adding some oxigen by a... buble stone, mine enjoyed staying in the bubble bath while they had the itch, prolly made them feel better, dunno.
Food in the water is not enough to cycle 300L of water in 2 weeks. No way no how.
That tank needs a good month atlest to be able to have fish in. What you can now do as i said is take the fish somewhere else and keep them there till the cycle is done or you will have more dead.
And even at 300L 16 of them is to much, those 6 parrots alone are nuff for that tank, remember u need to keep it ballanced. Besides they all grow and soon you'll have a tank that looks a bit busy.
You also need plants mate, well you don't need but they would help a lot by consuming some of the nasty stuff in the water.
P.S How many l/h can your filter pump?


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## lynchmob (Mar 6, 2010)

i think your prob right, but i have nowhere to home them. could i put them in a makeshift hospital tank? i have a shed full of tanks and bits? first thing i did was put 2 air stones in.


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## rsn48 (Nov 26, 2009)

Lots of water changes and add some hornwort (plant), even if it is floating, to your aquarium. Hornworts thrive on nitrates which will help in the short run to reduce of toxic shock you have put your tank and fish through. You've made the classic mistake almost all beginner aquariust make so don't beat yourself up too much; I did the same many decades ago, about five to be exact. I still feel guilty about my lack of research when setting up my first tank; you've learned your lesson.

Learn about cycling a tank, you have a window of learning here.


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## lynchmob (Mar 6, 2010)

*whats going on now???*

Ok so i seemed to have had the worst 5 deaths, things seem to be looking up. my parrots have perked up. I have done exstensive water changes and added lots of salt. i measured the salinity at 2.5 which i guess might be too high. my main concern is that the parrots are staying at the top of the tank allot. i guesss that is due to a change in boyency? well that me know what you think. is the high salinity a risk to the fish???


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Why would you add that much salt? Trying to start a reef with parrots?
Stop adding salt, i can simply not see the benefits of that much salt in a freshwater tank.


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## lynchmob (Mar 6, 2010)

maybe i calculated wrong/

260l = 68 us gal. = 136 tsp 1 tsp = 5grms

136tsp = 680 grms.

if i have added too much should i dilute it? what harm will it do. 

maybe i should make it a marine tank. i seem to be having better luck with my marine tank.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Again, why did you add salt? To do... what?
What is the benefit of that salt in your situation?
You just added 700g of salt in 260L of water for the sake of doing something. Yes it's gonna do harm, lots of it.
Change the water(40% NOW! and another 40% tomorow, use dechlorinated water) and stop adding stuff in the tank just because it's fun.


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## lynchmob (Mar 6, 2010)

the fish have saltwater ich. did you not read the previous posts. it states on all info on ich that that is the recommended treatment.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Really? can you link some of those sites where you found that making your freshwater tank a reef cures ich?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Have used Salt (not Marine salt). at 3 teaspoons per gal to treat ICH in freshwater aquariums. Also slowly raised temp to 82 degrees. Always mixed the salt in five gal bucket and made sure it was all dissolved before adding it to the aquarium. At three teaspoons per gal, SG level is relatively low at around 1.001
I would be concerned about the use of 40 percent R/O water as mentioned earlier, and if ph being posted is with addition of marine salt which will increase alkalinity or is ph posted from the tapwater?
Also confused as to tank size as two different sizes have been mentioned 68 gal or 80 gal? 260 Litres or300 litres?
Would be difficult to know how much salt or meds to administer without accurate size of tank or gal,litres.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

You can cure it by increasing temperature to 30 celsius for a few days to a week.
No salt really needed.


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## lynchmob (Mar 6, 2010)

So the tank is 300l but I estimated 260l with rock in. I didn’t use marine salt I used cooking salt with no iodine or caking agent. What is wrong with RO? It’s hardly a reef tank, my refractometer measured 1.0025 a reef requires ten times that, 1.025. I may have made an amateurish mistake but I’m not an idiot. Thank you to everyone else for your valued advice but as for Redknee please keep your unhelpful moronic comments to yourself. 

The situation seems much better. The symptoms of ich have subsided the most obvious issue now is slightly frayed fins, (not stringy, doesn't look fungal) and black patches on fins and lips and some upper parts of body? All help appreciated.

p.s. I did raise my temp too.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Yes, you are so right, i should keep my advice to myself.
Great job on the salt thing, keep it up.
You are also right about something else, you don't have a reef there, it's a swamp at best.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

The black patches are likely signs of osmotic shock. I think you have entirely too much salt in the tank which is adversely affecting your fish.

I suggest doing large water changes to bring the salt down to a reasonable level. The water changes will also help with the elevated ammonia levels. Other than the salinity, what are your other water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH)? What fish remain in the tank? I wouldn't recommend keeping parrots with Malawi cichlids. The Malawi fish, even the more docile ones, will bully the parrots. Not to mention incompatibilities as far as water parameter requirements and diet. I would make a choice between the two and would likely base that choice on the water parameters of my tap water (or whatever water source I had available). It's not ideal but you can cycle a tank that has fish in it but frequent large water changes are necessary in order to keep ammonia and nitrite from reaching lethal levels.


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## Austin (Feb 1, 2010)

Redknee you don't need to be so rude. Salt is a known remedy for ich. 

I can't offer much advice since I dunno much about cichlids and fighting ich (had ich before but not really sure how i managed to get rid of it...) My experience with ich was keeping the temp the same (raising it can stress your fish and increase metabolism deteriorating water quality), adding meds, and a tiny bit of salt (I don't really think the salt did anything.) What you want to do to treat ich is keep the water parameters the best you can and keep their environment as stress-free as possible. Keep up your water changes. If your ammonia is 0 and nitrite 0 and nitrate is low, then your tank should be for the most part cycled. Things should begin to settle down and your fish should start to get better I think. I'd do large water changes as iamntbatman suggested to get the salt down. Keep an eye on your ammonia and nitrite. Make sure your treat tap water before putting it in your tank. Also cichlids are agressive fish that might be the cause of some of the frayed fins... do they have enough places to hide? Cichlids like lots of rocks and places to hide like clay pots and oranaments. 

Btw poking them with a stick to make them move isn't going to help them. I know you stopped but just thought I'd comment that they are going to be sick whether or not they sit their and look sick or move around not looking as sick.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Excuse me Austin i've just been called a moron by a guy who OD'd his fish with salt and has no clue about his fish and who i did try to help. Did i told him to take some fish out? Yes, did he? No. Did i tell him to just raise temp to 30 celsius? Yes, did he? No, he used an obscene quantity of salt just making things worst. 
He went his way and called me a moron, HE after all he did called ME a moron. Excuse me but...
I think my comment doesn't take me close to rude. Truth might hurt but the hurting doesn't change the truth, what he's doing there is creating a saltwater swamp that will soon home nothing but bacteria and perhaps a few snails.
Salt is a known remedy for ich but is as old and way overrated as putting a cigar into your ear when it hurts causse the cigar will drag out all the air currents from the ear and make it all better. My granpa used it and maybe my dad to but it's pretty much pointless.
30-31 celsius for 4-7 days and ich is just a bad dream. In any case if you DO use salt you don't drop it by the bucket... The way he handeled that aquarium shows neglect and a total "i don't give a darn" attitude.
Excuse the grammar.
And with this i end any comment on this topic, thank you for reading and good night.


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