# Canister Filter?



## MetalArm3 (Jun 22, 2011)

I have always used the Marineland Penguin HOB Bio Wheel filters on all my tanks, but as always I am planning for the future. I always heard good things particularly towards the EHEIM brand. I would like to get the best of the best since this is a long turn hobby that I have and will continue to pursue. Specifically, I was looking at the EHEIM Professionel 3e because you can adjust the flow rate on it. I currently have a 27gal cube tank but would like to expand into the 60's and 70's when I get the room. 

My concerns are:
How loud are they since I currently have the tank in my bedroom?
Is it expensive to maintain (filter media)?
How often do you have to clean them, and what are the chances of spilling/leaking water?
How long does the system last (I am looking for years)?

All input is accepted as I know nothing about canister filters.

Thanks,
MetalArm3


----------



## lorax84 (Nov 3, 2010)

Most of the planted tank guys I know do not use anything but ehiems. I do not yet own any but I have a buddy who has 3 or 4, all of which are 5-10 years old and completely silent. I have also hear most of the filter media is reusable after a rinsing.


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Just giving you a huge thumbs up for the canister. I have a Rena XP3 running on my 75 gallon for about a year now. 

They are virtually silent and I've never replaced any of the filter pads, stars, bio-balls - just give them a rinse in tank water and put them back in the baskets after you empty the gunky water out of the filter. The only thing I ever replace is the filter floss pad in the top basket and you can get a boatload of it really cheap online.

I usually clean out the filter once every month or month-1/2. I know there are folks who go a lot longer without any problems.

Good luck - you won't be sorry.


----------



## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

My rena XP3 has been running for about 6 years with the original coarse sponges on my 55 gallon planted. Some of the original media are chemical filtration which I suggest removing. The fine sponges I would suggest replacing with just cheap filter floss once they are done in. You can rinse them until they start clumping up. Its really quiet if you make sure all the air is out of it. I am debating replacing the gaskets on it since they are still original. It took me awhile to get the main gasket to seal last time I opened it.


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Mikaila31 said:


> My rena XP3 has been running for about 6 years with the original coarse sponges on my 55 gallon planted. Some of the original media are chemical filtration which I suggest removing. The fine sponges I would suggest replacing with just cheap filter floss once they are done in. You can rinse them until they start clumping up. Its really quiet if you make sure all the air is out of it. I am debating replacing the gaskets on it since they are still original. It took me awhile to get the main gasket to seal last time I opened it.


I just added more stars and bio-balls and never threw out the original media since it doesn't get gunky. And yes, the filter floss replaces the fine sponge in the top basket. 

I'm glad to hear that the coarse sponges have lasted all that time for you because that means I've got a lot of years of life left in mine. Thx.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I have Eheim and Rena XP filters. Product reviews consistently rate Eheim #1, Rena #2 and Fluval #3, of those three brands. And Eheim always comes out #1 with any canister.

I have had my Eheim on the 90g running constantly now for 14 years non-stop and never a problem, never failed, always good. It also has a built-in heating unit which I really like. My other Eheim is the same model minus the heating unit, and I've had it for 15 years but it was not running for a couple years when I had one less tank.

The Rena XP I really like as a filter. The question though is how long it will last? Rena does not have the proven track record because it has not been around very long. Some I have talked to feel they will not last like Eheim filters.

For media, you will need the pads for the filter which usually come with it, though Eheim didn't used to but I believe they do now. The other media, I use Fluval because it is less than half the cost and just as good. Ceramic disks for the bottom, then some sort of biological rock, but this can be removed and replaced with pea gravel, lava rock, etc. I rinse mine and use it forever because I have planted tanks and biological filtration is secondary.

You asked about noise. My Rena I can hear running in the fish room, but I cannot hear the Eheims at all, unless I literally put my ear right on it. They are super quiet.

Byron.


----------



## MetalArm3 (Jun 22, 2011)

Byron said:


> I have Eheim and Rena XP filters. Product reviews consistently rate Eheim #1, Rena #2 and Fluval #3, of those three brands. And Eheim always comes out #1 with any canister.
> 
> I have had my Eheim on the 90g running constantly now for 14 years non-stop and never a problem, never failed, always good. It also has a built-in heating unit which I really like. My other Eheim is the same model minus the heating unit, and I've had it for 15 years but it was not running for a couple years when I had one less tank.
> 
> ...


Thanks Everyone for the great responses. 

@Byron:

You answered nearly all ny questions (as usual). I was looking at the EHEIM Professionel 3E canister filter, my only concern is the possibility of over filtration. Im planning on getting some fancy goldfish in the future and don't want the suction to be too strong. I know this specific model has flow control, would that be ok. Is this a legitamate concern?


----------



## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

Rena recently outported their factory from Germany to another country (leaving blank to prevent offense) and the quality decreased. My Aunt has the one from Germany and it is also VERY quiet mine is just quiet, from no-name country


----------



## iamgray (Jul 16, 2010)

I bought an Eheim 2213 based on a recommendation from Byron awhile back, and I am very happy with it. It is so quiet that I often have to sit and stare and see that the plants near the spray bar are moving around just to be sure that it's actually running. I don't have much to add since Byron covered it all already, but I just wanted to confirm his speculation of whether the media comes included now... it does.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

MetalArm3 said:


> Thanks Everyone for the great responses.
> 
> @Byron:
> 
> You answered nearly all ny questions (as usual). I was looking at the EHEIM Professionel 3E canister filter, my only concern is the possibility of over filtration. Im planning on getting some fancy goldfish in the future and don't want the suction to be too strong. I know this specific model has flow control, would that be ok. Is this a legitamate concern?


If the Eheim is rated for the tank volume, it will be sufficient. One must remember that filter ratings/tank size are usually meant for those with plant-less tanks. Having plants means less filtration [= filter equipment] is necessary, and adjusting the flow down is a good feature (my older model Eheims do not have this, my Rena does). Goldfish are messy fish biologically, but the Eheim rated to the tank should be adequate.


----------



## MetalArm3 (Jun 22, 2011)

I was thinking about the Eheim Professionel 3E model 2076. Would this work good on my current 27gal than possibly on a 60 gal tank later on. Sorry, but i dont know how to read the specs. My goal is to find the right filter that will filter both tanks and keep them super clean. 

P.S. man the additional filter set is expensive
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

MetalArm3 said:


> I was thinking about the Eheim Professionel 3E model 2076. Would this work good on my current 27gal than possibly on a 60 gal tank later on. Sorry, but i dont know how to read the specs. My goal is to find the right filter that will filter both tanks and keep them super clean.
> 
> P.S. man the additional filter set is expensive
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow, this is a "cadillac" of filters:shock:. No wonder it is so expensive.

This is too much for a 27g, and even for a 60g in my opinion. It is rated for up to 110g. I always select a filter with a top end rating (110g in this case) close to my tank. I would use this for instance on my 115g, maybe my 90g.

But it has features I wouldn't want. Wave action for one, that would be very stressful to me, and I suspect the fish. This is not natural to forest fish. And I don't understand the day/night bit; I could understand temperature variances between day and night, but not water movement.

I would look for something more basic.


----------



## MetalArm3 (Jun 22, 2011)

Byron said:


> Wow, this is a "cadillac" of filters:shock:. No wonder it is so expensive.
> 
> This is too much for a 27g, and even for a 60g in my opinion. It is rated for up to 110g. I always select a filter with a top end rating (110g in this case) close to my tank. I would use this for instance on my 115g, maybe my 90g.
> 
> ...


I see, can anyone recommend an Eheim canister filter that would work on my current 27gal and later on a 60gal tank? The main thing I'm looking is for it to be really quiet, easy to clean, and easy to setup (like priming). I'm open to any suggestions since I know very little about this subject.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

MetalArm3 said:


> I see, can anyone recommend an Eheim canister filter that would work on my current 27gal and later on a 60gal tank? The main thing I'm looking is for it to be really quiet, easy to clean, and easy to setup (like priming). I'm open to any suggestions since I know very little about this subject.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you really only want to buy one filter, then it should be one rated for the larger tank. The issue then is that it will be too much for the smaller. But adjusting the flow to minimal might get you through this. You mentioned goldfish previously, for the 60g I assume, so you want a filter capable of handling messy fish, and also plants will likely not be present or very tough ones which are slower at assimilating nutrients (goldfish eat tender plants).

If you want Eheim, go to their site or a site like Big Al's or Drs. Foster and Smith and review the filters. The tank size recommendations are all included.


----------



## TwinDad (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm in the long process of shopping for a canister for a 55G. I've been milling between the Rena XP2 and the Eheim Classic 2213. I read the reviews. They both seem good, I'm right along with the OP for some feedback of owners if they are pleased.


I'm also looking at the 2215 as I'm thinking of a 75G in the future.*
*


----------



## MetalArm3 (Jun 22, 2011)

TwinDad said:


> I'm in the long process of shopping for a canister for a 55G. I've been milling between the Rena XP2 and the Eheim Classic 2213. I read the reviews. They both seem good, I'm right along with the OP for some feedback of owners if they are pleased.
> 
> 
> I'm also looking at the 2215 as I'm thinking of a 75G in the future.*
> *


Don't forget to answer TwinDads question, don't want to bump him.

So does the rule of 8-10 cycles of tank water per hour still stand for canisters? I guess that's where my confusion is coming in. I currently have the Marineland Pengiun Biowheel 350, that moves 350gph.....should I not being trying to match this flow rate with a canister?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TwinDad (Mar 3, 2011)

Bryon and a few have mentioned that while it's good to cycle as much water as possible you have to consider the plants and inhabitants of the aquarium. Bettas for example don't like much water movement so what good is a 1000GPH filter when it's not natural to them. So you do have to consider the plants and fish in your filtering. On the same note if they like a strong current that would need to be provided too.

I was originally going to go with the highest GPH model, then I stared to read around and second guess myself. So now I've come down to getting one rated for the 75G. Just curious on experience.

I don't mean to threadjack here, just thinking that it would be relevant information for both of us almost same aquarium situation here.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Filtration should always be based upon the fish in the aquarium. Not all fish need the same type/extent of filtration [thinking here of filter equipment, not "filtration" in the sense of water quality which obviously always needs to be the best we can provide].

The OP mentioned goldfish; a filter for goldfish is a very different matter from a filter for the same sized tank containing plants and forest fish. And it would be something different again for a tank of fish from rivers with strong currents. When planning an aquarium, the first consideration should always be, what fish will be in it. Tank size and type (long vs high), filter, sometimes light should be geared to the fish community.

I do not believe that faster water flow through the filter (this being the gallons per hour issue) is better filtration. It often is not, and there is plenty of scientific fact to support this. All aspects have to be considered. The fish load will impact the organics, the filter has to be able to handle these, but at the same time pushing the water through 20 times instead of 10 times each hour, for example, is not necessarily going to mean "better" water quality. There are too many variables.


----------



## TwinDad (Mar 3, 2011)

So if the idea is to make the filter media the best to filter the water. Would it make sense to get a filter that has more baskets? I've read the use the pre filter plastic balls, then sponge, then bioballs, then fine filter. That would be very well filtering the water, but would seem to need a higher end pump with more capacity, which comes with GPH.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

This is what I was getting at previously. What possible good will more baskets do? [Not being facetious, please understand, just asking the general question.] The answer is, nothing.

The nitrification bacteria that colonize surfaces can only exist at the level required to handle the available ammonia/nitrite. No more, no less. And there are more of them in the substrate than in the filter. So providing double the media achieves nothing. However, it can backfire, because the heterotrophic bacteria will colonize everything, and smother the nitrifying bacteria.

Now, pushing the water through filter pads/floss/sponges is quite different; here we are filtering out minute particulate matter. But unless the tank water is cloudy with garbage, this is not necessary either.

Pushing the water through faster can also be detrimental. The bacteria can only handle the ammonia/nitrite as it comes to them, ad this works best with a moderate flow. Much the same as plant nutrients; in fast flowing water, plants assimilate far less CO2 and other nutrients because they flow past them too quickly.

It comes back to my original point. The fish have to be balanced for the water volume in the tank, not more. If this is done, then the filter rated for the tank will be adequate. It is only when people overload tanks with too many or too large a fish for the volume that they have insufficient filtering.

Then there are the toxic substances that no filter can deal with anyway. Pheromones from the fish accumulate and can only be removed by water changes, as can nitrates. All the filtration you could possibly hook up to a tank cannot solve this problem.


----------



## TwinDad (Mar 3, 2011)

In all my thought process of the filter, I totally over looked the idea that bacteria would colonize it. My mind was on plants and substrate doing most of the work. Excellent point that you can't "gut load" bacteria to have it on hand for when you need it. I read your article on bacteria it helped to understand their roles in the aquarium.

I have researched enough on the profiles for the fish I wish to keep that I think I know the best size and fit for the aquarium. I'm going to make sure the filter I want has a variable flow rate so that I can make sure to replicate their natural environment.

Maybe I was caught up in the "Tim Taylor" more power thoughts for filters. Going to spend a bit of time researching around to see what the eheim 2213 filter can hold media wise and what is best for minimal cleaning.

Thank you for your thoughts as always.


----------



## MetalArm3 (Jun 22, 2011)

*Eheim Support Reply*

Message:
I was looking into buying a canister filter but don't know which one is right for me. My goal is to buy a canister filter that would work for both my current 27gal cube tank and then later switch it to a 60gal when i have the room. One filter that peaked my interest was the Eheim Pro 3E 2074 but am concerned about the 90gph flow rate. Would lowering the flow rate on the unit allow me to use it on my 27gal then later increase the flow for my 60gal later on. I am open to any recommendations, I just want to be able to use the same filter for a 27gal on a 60gal late on. 

Thanks, MetalArm3

Eheim Support:

Dear MetalArm3

The EHEIM model 2074 has been manufactured for aquariums up to 90 gallons.* Since this is an electronic filter, the flow can be controlled precisely using the EHEIM interface or the touch pad.* Note that the minimum flow of this filter is 90 GPH,* this flow will not be too much for your 27 gallon aquarium.

So what do you guys think? Do you agree with them? Chime in!

P.S. I hope I don't get in trouble for posting this, the email said it's only intended to the addressee


----------



## TwinDad (Mar 3, 2011)

Well if the lowest flow is 90GPH, that is a turnover rate of 3x the volume of your tank. In thinking with what Byron and others have posted that fast and furious is not always best for the fish. What fish do you have/will you have? Natural habitat is slow streams or rivers? I'm almost sold on the Eheim 2213. 

Part of me thinks that the 2215 would be better if I did get a 75G tank. But the cost of those is higher than I imagined overall and might just not get one.


----------



## MetalArm3 (Jun 22, 2011)

Well, I currently have a 27gal cube tank withe tropical fish (Guppies, Platties, Tetra and Cories). However I am looking at canisters as a future investment. After these fish die off (hopefully that will be several years) I want to get 3 goldfish in there possibly (overstocked, but hoping a good filter can compensate for large bioload). Then 5 years down the line hopefully run it on a 60 or 70 gallon tank. I had a goldfish 10 years ago, actual a feeder goldfish (was 5 cents lol) and it lived about 8 years. It started out a around a half inch and ended around 7 or 8 inches while also changes colors from black to white to finally an orange (sorry for my rambling). So since I'm not in a rush, keep me updated on what you decide as I'm sure it will influence my decisions.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

A comment or two on the response from Eheim. First, they are being very general and cannot be factoring in the aquascape and fish species. Of course any filter rated as "up to 90g" will filter a 27g tank, that is not the issue. The fish determine the filter, or should if we want to provide them with the best.

I have a Magnum canister that I bought for my 33g way back when, my first canister. It is far too powerful for that size tank. I now have an Eheim sponge filter [they don't make these any more, pity, because it is a superb filter, a simple sponge inside a small canister with a little motor, hangs in the corner of the tank] on this tank, and the Magnum is in a box as my backup spare filter should one of the other filters ever give out.

If there are going to be fish in a tank for 5 years they deserve appropriate water flow or they won't last 5 years.


----------



## MetalArm3 (Jun 22, 2011)

Couldn't agree more Byron! I emailed them again abot flow rate and here's what they said:

Me:
I am setting up a 27 gallon cube tank that will be stocked with 2-3 Fancy Goldfish. I was looking at the Eheim Pro 3E 2074 because I am going to be upgrading to a larger tank (60gal) in a couple of years and am hoping to find something compatible with both. My concern is the flow rate may be to strong in my 27gal tank. Can the flow be reduced to very minimum surface agitation because goldfish need calm water. I am also open to other filter recommendations. Also, what is your return policy? If I buy a canister filter and find it's too strong for my tank, can it be returned on that cause alone? Thanks, MetalArm3

Them:
I would recommend an Eheim Liberty power filter for your 27gal tank. Model 150 or 200. The flow is not overpowering, its very easy to use and clean. As far as the return policy you would need to verify that with the particular retailer that you purchase from.

Verdict:
My solution is keep the penguin 350 since it's new (only a month old) and then when the time comes to stock it with fancy goldfish I might buy a small Eheim canister (2213?) too run along with Biowheel if parameters become inconsistent. How's does that sound? Or is it bad to run two different types on filters? 

BTW what are people views in the Eheim liberty models? They look cheap....

MetalArm3


----------

