# Setting up a pond



## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

Hello! I'm a new member here and I'll be setting up a small above-ground garden pond.

The structure has been built already. It was a concrete structure surrounding a tree in our backyard but a storm blew and a lightning strike split the tree in half, killing it. My folks and I decided to make the concrete structure a pond, so we raised the walls a little bit and waterproofed the inside. It now measures 5x5x2 feet (planned water depth, not structure height) with a small island in the middle, where we will be placing a potted plant to provide the fishies with shade.

I plan to add water plants and some goldfish and probably, one or two koi.

I've seen koi and goldfish coexist peacefully so I plan to mix them. (If you have experience otherwise, please tell me). I would've put only koi if the pond weren't too small. I love koi, especially kohakus (as evidenced by my avatar)

So, how many fish can you recommend putting in? 

And btw, I will be having filtration by means of a pump and a DIY bucket filter.

So, those are the basics of my project. If there's any aspect of it you would like to know, please do so, so I can post it and for people to hopefully correct it if I'm doing it wrong.

Thanks!


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## aquakid (Jun 22, 2008)

I need to know how many gallons


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

I used an online calculator and it says 311.5 UK gallons and 374.1 US gallons. Take away a bit about 10 or 20 gallons because there's a small island in the center.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

im far from pro on the goldfish/koi and even ponds but my father has "baby sat" his friends 2 koi and temp. put them into his fancy goldfish tank. one of the goldies is now missing an eye because of the koi. 

i have also seen koi 3'+ that were 30 years old. plan for the long term and goodluck. welcome to the forum.


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## derekp (Mar 31, 2009)

In all honesty, that amount of gallons is not sufficient enough for just one koi. A full grown koi, from what I have read, need at least 500 to 1000 gallons for just one. 

You have to consider the swimming space, the amount of oxygen a large koi is going to use for itself, and the huge bioload amount one koi is going to put off. 

Now I am not saying that you cannot put any koi into it temporarily. I am just saying that you need to have a back up plan because koi grow quite fast, and I am sure the last thing you want to do is stunt their growth. I myself have 12 5 inch koi in a 200 gallon above ground pond that I am growing out. But I have a 20,000 gallon pond for my big uns.

I hope you enjoy your time in koi keeping. They are very enjoyable and quite rewarding when kept properly. 

Derek


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

So I guess I'm sticking to goldfish then, since they don't grow as big as koi. Thanks guys. I'll update this thread once I get it set up.


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## derekp (Mar 31, 2009)

Goldfish would be perfect, and will never outgrow that pond. :-D


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

looking forward to pictures.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

I have another concern, now that the pond is almost done...

What kind of paint should I use and what color is good for painting the interior of the pond? I know there are specialized pond paints but I don't think they are available locally and getting it shipped in is gonna cost a lot. Are there any other alternatives? Roof paints, perhaps?


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

Okay, I decided to not paint the interior anymore. Not my decision actually, but my folks'.

I've now added a few plants, installed the powerhead and filter, aged the water, and now, I've started cycling the pond with 4 black mollies in it. I really think I should've bought more since 4 small fish are going to produce very little waste compared to the total water volume. 

I just noticed that there are tiny leaks in the sides! Well, it's not much but it would be a problem in the long run. I don't think it would deplete the water level significantly, so I'll be waiting until morning to fix it (noticed leaks at around midnight)


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

hmm. why not return the fish and fishless cycle the pond with pure ammonia?


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

I was thinking of that too, but running the pond for weeks without any fish would be boring.

Is fishless cycling the norm now? I don't see any bad effects of cycliong with fish, especially when I'm using 4 tiny fish in 200+ gallons of water.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

the problem i see with using little fish, i would have thought that
when you go to add the amount of goldies in the pond,there won't be enough
bacteria in the filter to cope with their amount of waste ?
are you able to get hold of amonia ? kinder to fishless cycle.

forgot to add,will love to see pictures


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

My brother added four 3" goldfish already. Oh well, my fault since I started adding fish and the kid got too excited. Hmm. Should I take out some of the fish?

I can get hold of ammonia easily but yeah, since I've started the pond running already, my kid brother's enjoying it very much right now. Usually said kid is quite grumpy but he lightens up when he sees fish swimming.

Do I absolutely have to remove the fish? Or will I be able to manage until the bacteria get a hold and build a nice colony in my filter? I'm using filter mats (so-called japanese filter mats) and lava rock as media.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

well with fish in place,it will cycle with them in it i guess 
nice to see animals having a possitive affect on a young person.
will he be able/willing to help take care of them ?
keep a good check on the water results.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

He's able, but not willing. LOL

I offered that I pay him (just a small amount) each day to feed the fish when I'm not home. He refused, even with the money. Oh well, kids are kids. XD

I'll need to watch the water results better. Will take a picture of the initial set-up tomorrow. I didn't fill it up full yet. It's currently at around 3/4 capacity.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

oh well,at least you tried lol 
look forward to the pictures


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

You offered to pay him and he refused? I've never experienced a kid refusing money for a chore. Instead of a kid he must be a temperamental teenager. ;-)
(My apologies, in advance, to our forum's rockin young adults)

Looking forward to seeing pics of your pond. My pond is currently sitting empty and I like that I'm able to follow along w/ your progress. Looking forward to pictures!!


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

Probably because there are other higher-paying chores in the house. Like massaging my grandma's legs. Haha. Picky worker. XD 
I just came out of my teenage years and yes, I was quite the temperamental one. D:
Anyways, the topic here is setting up a pond, not how to raise a little kid. LOL

I checked and saw no more leaks. If anything serious comes up I would have to drain the whole thing, so I hope we've seen the last of the leaks. I also noticed that the mollies are quite confident, swimming about and hanging out by the powerhead. The goldfish (shubunkins) are quite shy, hiding in the plants, rarely coming out. Probably it's because the mollies have been in the pond longer. Funny though, because the much larger fish seem to be hiding from the tiny ones.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

i hope the settle in soon 
how are they at feeding time ?

kymmie......
why is yours empty ?


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

The shubunkins were still quite shy during the morning feeding. They just hid in the plants while the mollies gulped down the food. (I use a mixture of flakes and goldfish pellets). I actually feared that the mollies would overeat. 

The late afternoon feeding was better. The goldfish would zip up, snap up some food and dive again. Still quite shy and unused to my presence. However, after that feeding, I noticed the goldfish were swimming about more. Also, they no longer swim away quickly when someone peers into the pond. I hope this keeps up. I think they were still hungry since I put in less food, but it's better to underfeed than overfeed. 

And here are some crappy pics from my phone camera. I hope to borrow a better camera when my set up is complete.













Still quite bare save for a few plants and pebbles. Will be adding more soon. I can't get a decent shot of the fish. They keep on swimming out of frame. But at least they're energetic and so far don't show signs of ammonia stress.


My DIY bucket filter, a modification of SKAustin's design, found at the DIY section of this forum. And I just remembered, I haven't PM'ed him my thanks yet.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

although the pics are small,you can still get a really good feel for the pond 
they're really clear.
once the fish have more cover they'll venture out more,
you should also find with ttime that the fish will come over to you
at feeding time.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

They're clickable thumbnails so you can zoom in.  

Sadly, I lost one of the goldfish. Just a couple of hours after I took those pics, heavy rain and strong winds hit. It rained overnight, and in the morning, we found one of the goldfish dead. Probably wasn't able to handle the stress of new home and bad weather. The mollies are currently the bosses of the pond, while the goldfish returned to being shy, hiding all the time and not feeding when I'm looking.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

silly me  lol 
once the plants grow the fish will feel more secure,
sorry to hear you've had bad weather and lost one of the fish.


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## derekp (Mar 31, 2009)

Very nice. It looks like a good conversation starter.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

Yeah. Thanks for the compliments. The neighbors and some of my mom's friends have seen it already and it's quite the conversation starter. 
I've yet to show this to my friends, but I doubt they'll get to see this personally since I live far from my school/workplace. It's a one and a half hour commute.

We're still having bad weather here. Weather forecasts say it's going to continue for the rest of the week, even though there's no storm. But it seems the fish are faring well, so all's good. The rain's even providing labor-free water changes for me. XD


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

glad to hear the fish are doing ok.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

willow said:


> i hope the settle in soon
> how are they at feeding time ?
> 
> kymmie......
> why is yours empty ?


It's empty because when I started it I used two preformed pond liners separated by a waterfall and then saw how the free formed versions looked so I tore it all down and started from scratch. It's great being able to follow adiumroot's thread so I'll have a blue print to follow once I get back on my pond project. I plan on getting busy with it in the next two weeks. 

Adiumroot, your pond is looking fantastic. I think I'm also going to go with shubunkins in my pond.:-D


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

aunt kymmie said:


> It's empty because when I started it I used two preformed pond liners separated by a waterfall and then saw how the free formed versions looked so I tore it all down and started from scratch. It's great being able to follow adiumroot's thread so I'll have a blue print to follow once I get back on my pond project. I plan on getting busy with it in the next two weeks.


 
great  will you do a pond build thread ?


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks for the compliments, aunt kymmie. However, looking great is not equal to doing great, especially in my case. :-(

I lost another one of them two days ago. My ammonia readings have gone down and because of the nitrite spike, my fish got stressed and one of them got what I suspected to be mouth rot. It happened very fast. It lost appetite one day and the next day, it was already lying weakly on the bottom. I separated it immediately and gave it a salt dip but it didn't last more than a few hours. It died with some white thing on its mouth and face, like the skin was peeling off.

The rest of the fish seem to be okay but I continue to observe them closely, just in case anything weird happens. I'm expecting ich next since I saw one of the fish occasionally rubbing against a plant, and will be treating once I see spots on any the fish. Problem with my pond is that it's very hard to observe the fish up close unlike in a tank. I try dipping my head with my face quite near the water (it looks like I'm drinking out of the pond) but the fish just dart away. I don't want to net them yet since I might stress them out more. 

If it goes past a week without spots showing up, then I guess it's safe, since I've read ich only has a life cycle of 4 or 5 days. Anyone can verify this?

I've learned my lesson and will now go fishless cycling the next time I set up a tank/pond.

Like they say, expect the best but prepare for the worst.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

adiumroot said:


> Problem with my pond is that it's very hard to observe the fish up close unlike in a tank. I try dipping my head with my face quite near the water (it looks like I'm drinking out of the pond) but the fish just dart away..


Now that would be a sight to see!:lol:
I'm sorry you're having problems. Hopefully it'll clear up soon before you lose any more fish. It's true that Ich has a short life cycle. The only way to be sure that all the Ich is gone (if you get an outbreak of it) is to not see any signs of it until 48 hours after the last visible white spot is seen. In a pond like yours I'm not sure how you'd be able to do that type of observation. Were it me (and it's not) I would be inclined to treat for the Ich, if and when it actually showed up.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

My mom actually saw me one time and got surprised thinking I was drinking out of the pond. I laughed and told her: "Why would I do that? I'm not a three-year old kid!" LOL

If another disease breaks out, I'm planning to put all of my fish in a 10 gallon tank for treatment, put the plants in a separate container (also medicated just in case parasites stick to them), and drain my pond and do some cosmetic changes in the meantime.

The fish should be back in the pond in 5 to 6 days. I hope they tolerate being cramped in a 10g for that long. Or I could place the goldfish in the 10g (4 of them 3-4 inches long each) and place the mollies in a different container, since they're the hardier ones.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

Sorry for double posting, but the edit option is already gone...

A molly has given birth! My female black and white molly went into hiding for almost 2 days, only coming out during feeding time. Last night, I noticed that it was no longer hiding. Today, after the afternoon feeding, I decided to inspect the pump intake, since I noticed a lot of debris has been gathering at the screen I put around the intake. I noticed something small moving. A closer look revealed a fry pecking on the debris for food! I immediately got my net and filled a gallon container with pond water. I was able to net two fry. I keep a small sponge filter soaking in my main filter, so I pulled it out and put it in my small 1 gallon plastic aquarium. 

The two babies are now in that small aquarium. I hope there are more hiding in my pond. I searched the plants and didn't find any. The goldfish and adult mollies could have gotten to them first. At the earliest, the female molly might have given birth yesterday. Oh well, I'm still happy I got to save two of them. Who knows, more might still be hiding in the pond and they'll just surprise me when I see them quite grown up already.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

sorry things are not that great,but congratulations on the fry,
there could be fry hiding in the plants,however g/fish are very good at clearing
fry at the best of times,i found this when i had a pond.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

I actually found another one today. It almost got eaten, since it chose to come out during feeding time. And the largest goldfish was just inches away from gulping it. Good thing I spotted it and I was able to shoo the goldfish away and get a net and transfer it to the small aquarium. Now there's three of them!

Actually, I don't think being able to save all the fry is good. I mean, where would I put so much fish? Especially when they grow up.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

i wonder if the gold fish would keep the population in
check for you ?


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

I think they would. I guess it serves as a treat for them. Kinda gruesome if you think about it since it's their pondmates' children but hey, that's nature.

And if I ever get too much mollies, there's the option of selling them as feeders. The LFS won't buy them back, as they have large populations of mollies in their tanks too.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

The Wakins and Bristlenose plecos are here! 

They're currently in the quarantine tank, but I don't think I'll be keeping them there for long. Probably only a week or two, if no symptoms of disease pop out. I got them from one of the most popular/trusted fish importers here (his show-quality Ranchus are AMAZING. I just saw them a while ago) and the fish I got from him are probably healthier than what I already have. LOL Well, as long as both the old fish and new fish are healthy, I don't think there will be a problem.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

look forward to seeing them


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

Pictures are here! They're kinda dark since I took them at night, with only my pond's spotlight and camera flash for lighting. Click thumbnails to enlarge.

I had to put the wakins in the pond since the QT suffered an ammonia spike. I aged the filter media (I'm using scouring pads in the QT's OHF and I attached an extra sponge to the pump intake) for a few days in my pond's filter but it apparently wasn't enough. The plecos are still in the QT and after I did a water change, the ammonia level went down to 0.25 and will probably go down more after a few water changes. A 15g can't handle two goldfish and two plecos.








My improvised veggie clip. It's just a plastic laundry clip and a small pot. I feed them blanched green leafies every other day.


My fishies love their veggies.

My pond bottom's a bit dirty since rain washes some soil in. It's not a big concern healthwise for the fish so no biggie for me. The blue dots are splashes of paint from when the exterior was painted. The guy we hired to help build the pond was a bit careless. They've dried already even before water was put in so they don't pose any danger to the fish anymore


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hi
things are looking good.


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