# Help with Brown Algae......



## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Hey Everyone.....A while back, oh maybe 6 or 7 months ago, I set up my new 55G aquarium and added these rocks I found at my LFS called "utah ice". Which look like the coolest thing ever.... Everything has been great in the tank, except now I am starting to develop brown algae in my tank....I'm beginning to blame the utah ice as a culprit due to it's organic chemistry....here's a snippit of I what I was able to pull off the web...

I found out that 'Utah Ice' is actually a type of Gypsum/Selenite. calcium sulfate dihydrate....I read more and I come to find out that it slowly dissolves and* increases* the hardness of your water......uh oh.....

Mine have not yet begun to really dissolve....but when I was doing my pwc on sunday, i picked one up to move it and it snapped in half, so I'm assuming it's begun the breakdown process....

So I guess I have a few questions because I'm completely stumped.....

1.) Would the hardness and the dissolving rocks lead to my brown algae??
2.) Is the brown algae a source of something else? (gravel vac, picked up a lot of fish waste last clean)
3.) Am I wise to remove the utah ice and find some new rocks to aqua scape with??
4.) How serious is brown algae? do u treat it like regular algae.....

everything checks out great except my nitrates are hovering just about the 40ppm mark, which I'm assuming lead to the nitrates?? i dunno..lights are on for about 6 hours a day....I'm sure this is confusing, but like I said I have two components going on and I'm not sure if they are related or not....if you need more info, please don't hesitate to ask..I would love to figure this out, but I would love not to rescape my tank (which I'm assuming is inevitable, but thats ok too)

Thank you all to the help...my fish thank you....(as does my wife's cat who enjoys watching them)

Johnny


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## yippee (Jun 26, 2007)

I actually had this problem too (kind of). I don't have Utah Ice but i do have brown algae. The information i found on it was pretty slim with no real answer of what caused it. I'm lead to believe in my case (at least) it was due to having fairly strong lighting for plants on at least 8 hours a day. I've heard it can also be a sign of a newly set up tank becoming established. However mine didnt go away like they said it would. And when wiped away, it always came back - unlike they said it would. From what i had read there wasn't much to do about it. Most people said that most plecos wouldn't touch it. I bought a rubber lip pleco (as i like them), and put him in one of the tanks that had it. He surprisingly cleaned the algae off of the glass in no time, but didn't touch it on rocks, gravel, or decorations. When i went to the pet store i asked for some of their pest snails and took some home for free. They started working on it slowly but surely, until they had it spotless. They actually did a good job keeping it clean, until i bought a baby whale fish. I'm pretty sure he has picked them all off, as the algae is coming back and the snails have been coming around less and less.

This is my personal experience, yours may vary.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks for the input yippe....

yeah i couldn't find much on the web either, thats why I posted this.....the tank isn't a new establishment, and the lights are not on for more than 6.5 hours a day....I get home at 4 and leave them on till like 10, maybe 1030.....I'll be interested to see if anybody else has any input.....Thanks again!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I've a couple of observations. First, on the brown algae.

This is actually diatoms, not a true algae, but generally grouped with "algae". It occurs in new tanks chiefly due to ammonia and silicates because the nitrification cycle is not yet established/matured. It also occurs in too weak light; tanks with little or no overhead light frequently have diatoms. Otocinclus will devour it, and snails will work on it. I have set up tanks and after 2-3 months introduced a trio of otos (diatoms being present on the plant leaves) and within days it is gone and with sufficient light never returns. In a matured healthy planted aquarium, it will never be seen. However, otos are sensitive to water parameters and quality and may not be suitable in all tanks.

Algae in general does seem more prevalent in water with a higher hardness and pH value; presumably the minerals are beneficial. Normal algae requires light and nutrients and the latter includes minerals. Rift lake cichlid tanks frequntly have algae, which is good because the fish graze it.

Which brings us to the rocks. JohnnyD, have you tested the tank water's pH and hardness to see if it is increasing from what it previously was? From their composition, I agree with your findings that the rocks will affect the water chemistry. The question is, how much, and will this hinder your intentions for this aquarium. If this is intended as a planted aquarium, I would definitely remove the rocks and either use wood or inert rock. If you want livebearers, or rift lake cichlids, this will not be a problem but a blessing. Both these groups of fish need slightly hard to hard water with a basic (alkaline) pH from the range of 7.0 - 7.8 (livebearers) to 8.0 - 9.0 (Africans).

Byron.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Byron, 

Once again a great post....I appreciate the insight....i did more research at work today on these rocks.....the government takes me taxes, darnit, I'll use their internet!!!! haha

Anyways.....I read more about the rocks and i learned that over time they break down and are silicate based, which you mentioned with the "algae"...but this tank is defiently not a new tank....so I'm stumped there and still wonder if they are a contribution to the algae or not......you also mentioned low lights in the aquarium...i use a standard aquarium light and it's on for about 6 hours a day....my wife and I have reduced the ceiling lights we use to cut back on electricity.....nitrates were still hanging around 50-60ppm this morning before I left for work.....

I am going to remove the rocks tonight....as cool looking as they are I can see they are gonna cause me problems (although it has no effected my ph at all)......I plan on keeping mostly community fish.....i have no experience with african lake cichlids and have no other tank to try them in.....although they do sound cool.....

I think i'm gonna do another pwc when I get home, and during that remove the rocks which seems to be crumbling....

anything you reccomend as far as the algae? i wiped it away and it has come back now.....

thanks again everyone!

Johnny


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I've not found any info online concerning the cause of diatoms other than the two points mentioned. If the aquarim light is "standard" I would suspect it falls in the category as "too little light," but I won't argue that the rocks may be contributing as my geological knowledge doesn't go that far. Most rocks are composed of silicate minerals, they form 90% of the earth's crust I'm told. So it would be fairly difficult to find any others.

Here are some links to info on algae that is useful.
James' Planted Tank - Algae Guide
James' Planted Tank - Algae Guide
PG: Algae - An Overview - PlantGeek.net

I think once you go to a planted tank and have adequate light, diatoms will be a thing of the past.

Byron.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm going to ditch the rocks when I get home, do a pwc and see how it goes....i'm hesitant to go to a planted tank....no experience and I'd hate to disrupt my tank as it is now....


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Awww the tank looked awesome with those rocks. Are you gonna replace them with some inert white rocks or something similar like a plastic decoration that looks like ice?


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## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

Johnny what watt is your lights. Increas the watage it will go away. I had the same thing happen in my tank. Turn your lights on befor you go to work then shut them off at 10. Thats what all i dd and it worked. The rock shouldnt have much to do with it as it dosnt leach that fast.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

I have two 24" lights.....the wattage on them are 20W each (so 40 total?) ....it seems weird, but I didn't have the problem with the algae till my wife and I started not using the ceiling lights and using two small end table lamps instead (save electricity and they look nicer, lol)...could that have anything to do with it? my lights are on from about 4pm to 10pm....6 hours....is that not enough light?

Rocks: I've decided that the rocks have not contributed to the algae growth, but i do know now that they are going to increase the hardness of my water (ph has remained unchanged).....that is a health hazzard to my fish correct? I hate to, but I think tonighit when I do my pwc, I'm going to take them out.....thoughts on hardness hurting my fish????

water parameters before pwc tonight:
ammonia - 0 
nitrite - 0
ph 7.4-7.6
nitr*a*te - 40....maybe 50ppm

Johnny


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> I have two 24" lights.....the wattage on them are 20W each (so 40 total?) ....it seems weird, but I didn't have the problem with the algae till my wife and I started not using the ceiling lights and using two small end table lamps instead (save electricity and they look nicer, lol)...could that have anything to do with it? my lights are on from about 4pm to 10pm....6 hours....is that not enough light?
> 
> Rocks: I've decided that the rocks have not contributed to the algae growth, but i do know now that they are going to increase the hardness of my water (ph has remained unchanged).....that is a health hazzard to my fish correct? I hate to, but I think tonighit when I do my pwc, I'm going to take them out.....thoughts on hardness hurting my fish????
> 
> ...


There's really no evidence that the rocks are raising the hardness; while it is possible, I would suspect that if they were the pH would rise also, even if slightly, but you say it has not. Whenever I have used dolomite to raise the hardness, the pH also rises correspondingly. Of course, it is possible that your water has a sufficient carbonate hardness to act as a pH buffer. Any idea what the dGH and dKH of your tap water is?

Something else jumps out at me, your nitrates are high at 40-50ppm. While it is true that most fish can tolerate this, some cannot. And the recommendations I have seen here and elsewhere are aiming at keeping them below 20ppm. Partial water changes are the only way to do this (in a non-planted tank). And weekly pwc of 40-50% should do so. If this isn't, then I would look for the reason. Possibilities are overfeeding, too many fish for the biological balance, decaying animal/plant material. These are the usual causes.

One last comment on the light: 40 watts on a 55g for only six hours a day is very low light, and probably contributing to the brown algae. Plus the high nitrates. The rocks may have nothing to do with the algae.

Byron.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks alot guys!!!! 

My nitrates has only started rise when the brown algae started to appear.....they usually are in check around 15-20ppm.....I do a 30% pwc every sunday afternoon....they usually are fine.....

So the rocks might be able to stay, huh?? thats good news I guess......

If the lights are contributing to the brown algae and high nitrates....should I buy higher watt bulbs or leave the lights on longer? or both?

thanks for helping me figure this one everyone....I'm glad all my fish are healthy looking and eating great...they thank you as well...


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## yippee (Jun 26, 2007)

I'm not trying to jump into your thread and steal it to answer my problems, but rather add to the conversation to see if we can get better answers on what actually triggers the diatoms.

On the two tanks i have had problems with, one of them has 1.5 watts per gallon, and the other is .75 watts per gallon. Maybe the .75 is on the low side, I'm not sure. But i would think 1.5 watts per gallon would be more than enough, would it not? And i run them for a solid 8 hours per day.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

my 5 gallon has 4 watts per gallon... and it has brown diatoms. Does light spectrum matter?


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

thats what I"m starting to gather Sin....hopefully someone will chime in again about lights and wattage


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## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

Yes it dos matter I have 4 watts gallon. And i leave my lights on for 12 hrs aday. never have any problems with that but when i ran it with 2 watts i had the bloom. Also if your filter media isnt changed reguarly then you would also get the brown diatom.


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## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

Johnny the rocks can stay i wouldnt take them out. rais you wattage and leave them on longer


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

so at 4 watts per gallon, I need 210 watts for my 55G tank? thats seems like overkill?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> so at 4 watts per gallon, I need 210 watts for my 55G tank? thats seems like overkill?


I cannot recommend this. In a planted tank I would go with 1-2 watts per gallon full spectrum max. This tank has no plants, so while you have diatoms now you will have green algae with light at a level of 4 watts per gallon, particularly with the high nitrate. Algae are plants, they need light and nutrients; when they become a problem it is because the light and nutrients are high, and the algae makes use of it.

Leaving the present lights on for a longer period seems more practical. And reducing the nutrients (nitrates are a key to this). Johnny, you mentioned the diatoms appeared with the nitrate rise--the two are clearly connected, although the latter probably caused the former, not the reverse.

Byron.


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## redlessi (Jul 22, 2009)

Nt enough light can cause diatoms to grow. I agree with increasing your light and it should go away.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

sounds good guys...I'll pick up a timer on my way home from work at lowes....what od you think? 8 to 10 hours? more? less?

i get home from work and settled in by 4pm...till 10pm...isn't enough I know now, should i set it to be at like 3-11pm?

I'm glad you guys helped me figure all this out, I am gonna keep the rocks I think and see how the diatoms go with new lighting schedule


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Considering that the tank is not new, I might consider running some fresh activated carbon in the filter for a few days maybe a week along with longer light period as Byron has suggested. I might also check the tapwater for nitrates and see if this too could be contributing to elevated nitrAtes. I might also reduce feedings to once a day and also reduce the amount. Many fish foods contain phosphates. I will assume that the substrate is being vaccumed each week. I usually split my tank into thirds ,and do a good gravel vaccum on one third of the tank each week ,with a different one third being vaccumed each time. Will also assume that only one person is feeding the fish during the day. When I was much younger and living with the folks, I had a 55 gal with an Oscar and a Dempsey. I kept having trouble keeping the water parameters in check and discovered that my three sisters were also feeding my fish each day after returning from school. Not sayin this could be happening, just offering some things to consider.


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## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

Agreed Byron. I use the 4 watts because the tank has black back ground painted on the tank and it still looks dark when i was at 2 watts. My alge stoped when i did that and increased the timeing on the lighting. Johnny i would do 10 to 12 thats up to.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

mollies said:


> Agreed Byron. I use the 4 watts because the tank has black back ground painted on the tank and it still looks dark when i was at 2 watts. My alge stoped when i did that and increased the timeing on the lighting. Johnny i would do 10 to 12 thats up to.


This would concern me due to the fish. Four watts per gallon is a lot of light; I would not even approach that intensity in a thickly planted tank--I only have 1 watt per gallon, and it is certainly not dark even with a black background. The plant and fish colours sparkle naturally.

I don't know (or can't remember) what fish you have, but remember that most of our aquarium fish occur in very low-lit waters, shaded by overhanging trees and vegetation, and the fish are not "programmed" for bright light. While the tank may appear dark to you on the outside, to the fish it is anything but dark. And yes, there will be those who say this is irrelevant, fish can adapt, etc, etc...well, they know as little about this as I do biologically. My approach is always to provide the closest environment I can to the natural habitat of my fish. While doing otherwise may appear to be OK, I cannot tell what effect it may be having on the fish internally. Replicating their natural habit as reasonably close as I can gives me the confidence that they will probably be healthier.

Byron.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> sounds good guys...I'll pick up a timer on my way home from work at lowes....what od you think? 8 to 10 hours? more? less?
> 
> i get home from work and settled in by 4pm...till 10pm...isn't enough I know now, should i set it to be at like 3-11pm?
> 
> I'm glad you guys helped me figure all this out, I am gonna keep the rocks I think and see how the diatoms go with new lighting schedule


Schedule the light period to coincide with your viewing period; I would start with 8-10 hours of light, plus reducing the nitrates, and see what occurs. Remember, as long as the nitrates are high, increasing the light is going to encourage other algae. B.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

So what length would you leave them on byron??

1077 - thanks for the advice....tap water nitrates test around 10ppm.....as did my last house......and yes, I feed my fish once a day at 4pm, when I get home....my wife doesn't touch anything with the tank, so i'm the only one feeding them, I know that for a fact....yeah yes I gravel vac 1/3 to maybe a half each week....


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## nomel (Jul 20, 2009)

To back up the lighting cause, I had a dim old bulb, changed it to a brighter bulb and (by chance) moved the tank to a brighter area of the house...brown algae mostly went away. Haven't had my new tank set up long enough.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> So what length would you leave them on byron??
> 
> 1077 - thanks for the advice....tap water nitrates test around 10ppm.....as did my last house......and yes, I feed my fish once a day at 4pm, when I get home....my wife doesn't touch anything with the tank, so i'm the only one feeding them, I know that for a fact....yeah yes I gravel vac 1/3 to maybe a half each week....


Myself, I would start with 8 hours and monitor. Two hours may not seem like much of a change from your current 6, but to plants like algae it is significant. To illustrate: one suggested remedy for green algae, brush algae and hair algae problems is to break up the light period during the day, with 5-6 hours on, 1-2 hours off, then 5-6 hours on again; and then the total darkness of course. This is said to discourage (and even kill off) algae which cannot make use of the reduced light periods but the higher plants have no problem. Not suggesting you need this, it is only an example of how a slight change can affect algae. Increasing the light by 2 hours may be enough to discourage diatoms, but not enough to encourage green algae.

Byron.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks Byron. I think we were posting at the same time, and yours hit right before mine regarding length of time.

I'll pick up a decent timer, the only other one I have is packed away with the christmas lights, lol....thanks for everyones help.....it is greatly appreciated, and most importantly...I learned something!!!!

Thanks again

johnny


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