# Biochem zorb to clear tannins from driftwood



## NewFishFiend (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay, i got driftwood for my 75g about 3-4 months ago. While i actually enjoy the brownish tinge it gives me water, it has caused my plants to suffer as the light isnt penetrating deep enough. After talking with my lfs, they suggested some zorb to clear the tannins. Well now im reading the carbon will probably be bad for my plants too. Would it be okay to use the zorb just long enough to clear the water up?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Larger more frequent water changes help with the water clarity. 50% weekly helps a lot... just do more if you feel it necessary. How deep is the tank?

_"I can't remember.... but I was very specific at the lfs that I needed it to be enough for my live plants"_ ..... This may or may not be helpful as the shop may just sell you whatever light. Check the bulb for wattage, diameter (T5, T8 etc) and Kelvin rating (usually something like 6500K) or some stamp that says what the bulb is... if it's LED just post the make and model.

If you can post a picture to help with what sort of plants you have. For example, it takes an awfully dark tank to kill crypts or java ferns but some plants will die off in lower light.

What are you doing for fertilization?

Jeff.


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## NewFishFiend (Feb 21, 2013)

JDM said:


> Larger more frequent water changes help with the water clarity. 50% weekly helps a lot... just do more if you feel it necessary. How deep is the tank?
> 
> _"I can't remember.... but I was very specific at the lfs that I needed it to be enough for my live plants"_ ..... This may or may not be helpful as the shop may just sell you whatever light. Check the bulb for wattage, diameter (T5, T8 etc) and Kelvin rating (usually something like 6500K) or some stamp that says what the bulb is... if it's LED just post the make and model.
> 
> ...


Right now i am using Seachems liquid fert but i have some dry fert to start using once im out of that. The bulb/lamp is a marineland f40t10 natural daylight. That is all it says. Lfs said it should be more than suffice and i took their word :/ i know i have some crypts, amazon swords, lillies, wisteria, and ludwigia.
As far as water changes, i have been doin 30-40% weekly since getting the driftwood and it hasnt made a dent.... I hate to part with the wood because it is beautiful and i love the ambiance it gives....


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

API's BioChem-Zorb, Activated carbon and Seachem Purigen all adsorb dissolved organic compounds. However as JDM mentioned, you might be better off just increasing the volume and/or frequency of your water changes.



NewFishFiend said:


> Okay, i got driftwood for my 75g about 3-4 months ago. While i actually enjoy the brownish tinge it gives me water, it has caused my plants to suffer as the light isnt penetrating deep enough. After talking with my lfs, they suggested some zorb to clear the tannins. Well now im reading the carbon will probably be bad for my plants too. Would it be okay to use the zorb just long enough to clear the water up?


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## NewFishFiend (Feb 21, 2013)

AbbeysDad said:


> API's BioChem-Zorb, Activated carbon and Seachem Purigen all adsorb dissolved organic compounds. However as JDM mentioned, you might be better off just increasing the volume and/or frequency of your water changes.


Well ima go out on a limb and let the charcoal clear the water, then take it out and fertilize and see what happens. Worse comes to worse, ill hafta figure something else out. Does it seem like my lightin is sufficient?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

The issue with the charcoal is that using it (if it even clears the tannins) will clear it now and it will colour up again. Over time, the colouring of the water slows down but if you constantly use charcoal it does remove plant nutrients and can lead to plant problems... not always though. I doubt that light levels are your problem unless that bulb is no real use for plants... I don't know, I use LEDs only.

As far as the light levels are concerned, here is a shot of my tank this morning. The camera light compensation is about right for what the light levels appear to my eye, it is actually as dark as it looks with that mass of surface plants in addition to the coloured water. I have an assortment of plants in there, check my profile tank list for them all but the prominent one in the rear is a sword and it is doing fine... crypts, a lily, java moss and ferns (those are in the really dark corner where the light is not even over them, it's a 24" LED fixture over a 30" tank and the fixture is off completely to one side).

I normally dose flourish comp once a week but it has been four weeks since the last dose and the root tabs have not been replaced in six months. I'm waiting to add a new brighter fixture and am letting the plants languish a bit before the light levels go up... but they are doing fine without the added light, it's just a nice fixture upgrade option.

Jeff.


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## NewFishFiend (Feb 21, 2013)

JDM said:


> The issue with the charcoal is that using it (if it even clears the tannins) will clear it now and it will colour up again. Over time, the colouring of the water slows down but if you constantly use charcoal it does remove plant nutrients and can lead to plant problems... not always though. I doubt that light levels are your problem unless that bulb is no real use for plants... I don't know, I use LEDs only.
> 
> As far as the light levels are concerned, here is a shot of my tank this morning. The camera light compensation is about right for what the light levels appear to my eye, it is actually as dark as it looks with that mass of surface plants in addition to the coloured water. I have an assortment of plants in there, check my profile tank list for them all but the prominent one in the rear is a sword and it is doing fine... crypts, a lily, java moss and ferns (those are in the really dark corner where the light is not even over them, it's a 24" LED fixture over a 30" tank and the fixture is off completely to one side).
> 
> ...


I honestly dont mind the way the tannins make my water look. I think its authentic. My concern was for my plants because they seemed to have quit growing and my lillies leaves were getting holes on them. Yesterday i bought many more plants and am posting a pic. Please excuse the cloudy water, i got to messing with my filters yesterday when i was dealing with the zorb, and the water is still clearing up. My water has been crystal clear, just with a brown tint. If no one thinks that the lighting even with the tannins are actually the problem with my plants, then i wont worry about it, but if lighting isnt the problem, what else could it be? I have made sure that my filter breaks the surface of the water, i fertalize with every water change, i prune them. Is there something i should be testing in the water?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Is it Seachems Flourish Comprehensive? If not it may not have everything that the plants need. I don't think that you really need to consider going to dry fertilizers as they are usually for the macro nutrients which you won't need with lower lighting and no CO2. Root tabs for the rooted plants and continued liquid dosing should be adequate.

What are your water parameters, KH, GH and pH. If the water is really soft it could affect some or all of the plants but your tank has been going for at least 4 months... how long was it running before adding the driftwood? Have the plants all been in there the whole time or are some of them new?

Jeff.


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## NewFishFiend (Feb 21, 2013)

JDM said:


> Is it Seachems Flourish Comprehensive? If not it may not have everything that the plants need. I don't think that you really need to consider going to dry fertilizers as they are usually for the macro nutrients which you won't need with lower lighting and no CO2. Root tabs for the rooted plants and continued liquid dosing should be adequate.
> 
> What are your water parameters, KH, GH and pH. If the water is really soft it could affect some or all of the plants but your tank has been going for at least 4 months... how long was it running before adding the driftwood? Have the plants all been in there the whole time or are some of them new?
> 
> Jeff.


Jeff the dry fert says its macro and micro. I bought it because the liquid fert gets really expensive. Water params are 0 amm 0 nitrites 5-10 nitrates, ph 7.8, kh 6, gh 2. Tank has been up about 4-5 months. Most plants have been in but i added a bunch yesterday. The flourish is the comprehensive. The dry fert (which i havent used yet) is 1 part KNO3, 1 mgso4, 1 part k2so4, and 1 part csm+b


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

NewFishFiend said:


> Jeff the dry fert says its macro and micro. I bought it because the liquid fert gets really expensive. Water params are 0 amm 0 nitrites 5-10 nitrates, ph 7.8, kh 6, gh 2. Tank has been up about 4-5 months. Most plants have been in but i added a bunch yesterday. The flourish is the comprehensive. The dry fert (which i havent used yet) is 1 part KNO3, 1 mgso4, 1 part k2so4, and 1 part csm+b


As long as the dry has everything that is listed on the comprehensive bottle (I think there are 17 constituents), it will be fine then... just don't overdo it with the dosing as it could cause other imbalances and lead to algae issues.

Your GH is a little low for plants, you may have to add something like Seachem's equilibrium to bring it up to 5 or 6. Byron does this for his tanks as his hardness is also really low. This could be the issue with the plants and the slightly lower light, while not the issue, could aggravate an already existing problem.

Jeff.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

First on the light, this is likely the main problem. This is a 75g tank, so I assume 4 feet in length? And the light is a single tube 48 inches in length? Whatever the tube, this is really pushing it. And I note you have substrate plants which generally require more intense light. Are you prepared to get a new fixture, or a different tube? We can discuss.

Second, the nutrients. I would definitely not mess with dry ferts here, this is likely going to cause a lot more trouble. Light and nutrients (of which there are 17) must be in balance, at whatever level, in order for plants to manage. Increasing nutrients with low light is going to create an algae soup.

Stay with the Flourish Comprehensive, and use it once a week. In a 75g, this means 1 full teaspoon on the day following the water change. If you improve the light, going to twice weekly might be advisable. Either way, this is not going to use much Flourish. And to save tons of money, buy it online, and consider the larger size. With my 7 planted tanks, I go through about 1 jug (2 liters) a year, which costs me $30 [in the USA you will likely get it for less than this too], which is not bad for what it does.

On the GH, this is a problem too. However, you might manage with the Flourish Comp, plus Flourish Tabs for the larger plants like the Tiger Lotus and large swords. I use the tabs for these and it makes quite a difference. The Tabs last 3 months.

Byron.


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## NewFishFiend (Feb 21, 2013)

Byron, thank u very much. As always u r a wealth of information! I always enjoy ur advice. So, that being said, i too feel like i need more light. Please give me a suggestion as to what tube i should get to provide the lighting i need


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

NewFishFiend said:


> Byron, thank u very much. As always u r a wealth of information! I always enjoy ur advice. So, that being said, i too feel like i need more light. Please give me a suggestion as to what tube i should get to provide the lighting i need


In my previous post, I had the dose incorrect, I said 1/2 tsp but I meant 1 tsp for your tank, so I corrected that, just to be clear.

To the light. I guess from what you posted earlier on the present tube that it is a T10. I am going to PM a member or two with a question on whether or not T8 tubes will operate; I think they will, but someone will know. If they will, then the best tube you can get is a Life-Glo 48-inch. Given there is only the one tube, I would not bother with anything less. These tubes are not inexpensive, but they are good. I use them on all my single-tube tanks. It will need replacing roughly every 18 months.

Byron.


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## DKRST (Jan 11, 2011)

Byron asked me regarding the T10 to T8 fit. 
I don't have a fixture to test it in, but from my quick online research, it appears the power supply (ballast) for a T10 is higher wattage than a T8. The pin sizes seem the same (width) so I think you may be able to wedge the T8 bulb in. My hypothesis is the older, less energy-efficient ballast in the T10 fixture won't drive the T8 bulb properly and your light level won't be improved just by changing bulbs.

Having said that, IF you can match the T8 bulb wattage to your T10 ballast, that should work. Sorry, just don't know for certain - we need an electrician to reply here! They do sell conversion kits for T12 to other sizes, so it might be worth finding an inexpensive T8 bulb and testing it out in the T10 fixture.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

to add a bit, I believe the T10s are essentially the same as T12s, just smaller diameter, in which case, the pin arrangement and lengths of all three types are the same and they all will physically fit the same fixtures, but T10/12s are used in conjunction with magnetic ballasts while the T8s use electronic ballasts, the full ramifications of using one in the other I don't know (different operating frequencies and methods of starting, etc.), but I have tried T8s in a fixture meant for T12s and they didn't work; lit only very dimly and flickered quite a bit


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## NewFishFiend (Feb 21, 2013)

Just wanted to update you guys. I did not change the lighting, but I did add carbon to clear the water out, but after talking to you guys removed it shortly there after. I have been following Byron's instructions and dosing with flourish comp every week 1 time a week with 1 tsp. 

Quantums posts, while I'm sure he tried very hard to talk to me in laymen's terms, pretty much went over my head, but I think the jist is, even if I try to put a T8 bulb in the t10 slot, it wont give it enough power to really make a difference and therefore is pretty much obsolete. 

While some of my plants look pretty weak, others have responded greatly! I've pretty much completely lost my lillies and my swords though. I'm posting a picture so you can see. 

Based on Byron's post I feel that I will be getting a new lighting system shortly. Byron, do you suggest LEDs? Do you have a favorite for 48" tanks?

If you look back on my previous posts when the water was darker, I think you can tell that clearing it up really helped brighten the lights immensely. Looking back i can see that my tank was really dim before I cleared the water up.


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## NewFishFiend (Feb 21, 2013)

BUT, as you can see, some of my clipping from my swords have really taken off well and look very nice since clearing the tank water. I'm wondering if it is more of a problem with my GH than lighting seeing as some plants are really doing well and others just kinda fizzled. Or a combination like we already talked about. Regardless I think I will upgrade my lighting system when I have some extra funds. I'm starting some SW nano reefs which has taken the majority of my fun bucks lately, but I love my FW tanks and will find some spare cash somewhere to upgrade lights. I dont wanna go crazy, but would like to do better if it's feasible.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

On the light. As this is a 4-foot tank, I would suggest either a dual-tube T8 (taking two 48-inch tubes), or, if you can find one, a single-tube T5 in which you could use an HO tube. Check availability and pricing online at places like Drs.Foster & Smith, Big Al's, or others you deal with.

If you go with the dual T8, you can use inexpensive daylight tubes you get in hardware type stores like Home Depot and Lowe's. The GE, Phillips or Sylvania "daylight" tubes having a Kelvin of 6500K are fine when there are two of them. I have this over my 4-foot 70g, 90g and 5-foot 115g, and the plant response is very good. Low and moderate light requirement plants will be fine. Tubes must be replaced about every 12 months.

The T5 I have not tried in single; I did have a dual-tube T5 HO unit for a week, and it was way too much light for all my tanks, even the 5-foot. I took it back for a dual T8. The single tube, if you can find it, would be OK.

For LED over this large a tank, I've no experience. I am considering LED for my 3-foot 33g one day down the road, probably when the present tube needs replacing.

One other suggestion is a background, and the least expensive and most effective is plain black construction paper. It makes the tank seem larger because the back wall is not so visible, and the fish and plants show nicely.

Byron.


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