# Newt Tank (or Vivarium!)



## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Ok, my current fire bellied newt tank is very small, so, for this Christmas, I want to upgrade it. 
The new tank is still going to be small, just a few gallons, but it's a difference!

I need some info on how to set up the vivarium.

So...

1) Will stones and pebbles just from the beach be ok for the tank?

2) Would they prefer just a couple of plants, or quite densely planted?

3) (This is completely unrelated to the tank) How can you sex the Fire Bellied newts, because I was never sure of their sexes?

Also, what sort of place do the newts come from, so that I can try to imitate their natural habitat?

Thanks people!!


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Has anyone got any ideas?

Please don't feel afraid to make suggestions if you've got a vivarium of your own, I am completely open to suggestions, as I have made NO plans for the tank yet.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

sorry my computing skills are VERY limited, so this is a very basic sketch. And the tank will most probably look nothing like this, but, as I say, this it just a rough sketch. 
I like the sloping gravel idea, so I may well stick with that, rather than having no land area; just things sticking out of the water, like wood and plants, as it looks more like an aquarium in my opinion. Here goes:










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## usmc121581 (Jul 31, 2006)

Someone I worked with had a setup just like that one. It was in a 75 gallon tank. I don't have pics but I'm going to try and paint a picture for you. On the left side of the tank was the dry land and it sloped down to a little pool of water that opened up to the rest of the tank. It was half fiiled with water and it got deeper from left to right. It had about 5 Fire Bellied newts in it, with a couple gold fish and some guppies. For the filtration he used a canister filter to suck the water out and to dump it back over the dry land to look like a stream. He had a bunch of plants that you can buy from your LFS (local fish store) it was densely planted. For the foundation he had some sort of reptile mix of some sort on the very bottom, then on top was pebbles. I will get back to you on the exact name of the mix or what ever it was. He also used alot rocks and brick from around the house. For the lighting he used a regular aquarium flourescent, and a heater in the water side of the tank. I hope this is able to help out a little.


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## caferacermike (Oct 3, 2006)

Give me a couple of days to get pics of a friends orchid tank. It is an interesting waterfall design. It is a lot of cork cacking, small pools all over and a return pump that feeds it all. the water starts at the top and drains down through all the other pools until finally reaching the bottom. It's for growing orchids and mosses. Would be ideal for newts and frogs.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

So sorry it took me so long to get here, please forgive. You mentioned that the tank will only be a few gallons? To begin with, I surely wouldn't keep 1 newt of any species in less than 10 gallons. Newts are dirty, they are EXTREMELY sensitive to water quality, and most grow quite large (6 - 8 inches full grown) Even the smallest species will need at least 10 gallons. The larger species will need a minimum of 30 gallons by the time they are grown, which, like fish, will happen quite fast.
With that said, the drawing you posted is the right idea for keeping newts. The things to watch for are:
enough space in the water to swim
enough land to stretch out on
enough plants to offer hiding places and shelter
Proper lighting overhead
Warm temperatures of mid 70's (fahrenheit) for the water (so you'll want to add an aquarium heater, must be submersible for a setup such as this
Filter to keep the water clean, run WITH carbon that gets replaced every 30 days, at least
Things to plan for with newts:
They grow quite large
They are VERY sensitive to water quality. Any levels of Ammonia and Nitrite will cause open sores. Nitrates, if higher than 40 for long periods of time, will cause the pH to drop, which will also cause open sores. These sores are prone to fungal and bacterial infections, very difficult to treat, and usually ends up to be lethal.
Newts are ESCAPE ARTISTS, make sure the top of the tank is WELL SEALED. Newts will crawl out of the tiniest holes, and can climb the glass pretty easily. If they get out, they hide and then dry out, thus they die. It doesn't take long...
Do a lot of water changes and gravel vacs, at least once/wk. 
Watch the feeding, uneaten food will rot quickly and make a mess of your water quality. Most newts will thrive on live blackworms, (these are not bloodworms, there is a difference) and crickets, and the size of the crickets will make a difference and change as the newt grows. Crickets is one of the easier foods to give, it's cheap, you can learn to raise them yourself, or even order them in bulk for cheaper online. They're also easier to pull out if not eaten. If they die, just pick them out and throw them away.
Ok, I think I've about covered all I can think to tell you about newts... if you have specific questions beyond that, please, feel free to ask.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Thank you people for your replies. 
I am afraid, just now, a few gallons is all I can do.  
It is an improvement of sorts though and it's better than the tank I've got now for them.

I appreciate your comments but for now, I can't buy a bigger tank for them.
I will try my best with the new tank, that is why I'm typing this thread, to make it as suitable as possible for them.
thanks again. :wink:


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm still open to suggestions, so please keep them coming!


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

As far as stones and rocks from outside, do a simple basic test. Take ammonia and pour it over the rocks to see if they fizz. If they do it will mess with your water chemistry and possible cause problems with your newt. All of the rocks should be washed very well in a bleech solution and then use dechlor before putting them in. 

I would suggest a 10 gallon as the cost is the same, here anyway, as anything smaller. It is easy to light, easy to maintain and should fit your newt for a while until you can get a larger setup. There is a lot you can do with it and enough water can be done if you plan right. 

A 50 watt heater for the water, a tight cover for the tank to keep in the humidity, a descent light, nothing special, maybe even just a regular aquarium hood with 2 screw in compact flourecents, 20 watts each with a 6500K rating have been used by many to grow many plants and will provide for the plants well. As for the newt, I have only seen them around here in and around moist places and then hiding under logs, leaf litter and earthen holes. You could provide a nice little cave with a coconut cave and some moss. The water should keep the tank a steady temp while the lights will raise the temp a little during the day. The coconut cave should give the newt a place to sun itself if it needs to warm up and the water, plants and cave will give plenty of hiding places. 

Now, as far as setup. I like your idea but with such a small tank, a barrier that holds the land portion with a ramp into and out of the water might give you a more useful setup. A piece of glass or plexi siliconed into place to hold the land portion in half the tank with the other half water, about 6 inches deep should provide a nice little setup for your newt until you can upgrade. Maybe some plastic canvas covered with a sheet of dried peat or maybe some kind of moss would provide an excellent way to get in and out of the water. Even a piece of driftwood large enough to provide a good exit point covered with moss would look cool. 

For filtration and circulation you can get a good sponge filter and an airstone. Try to get one that uses and airstone and not one that just plugs onto slot but either should work. Should be enough to maintain the tank with a minimul bioload and keep it clean and ammonia free between water changes. I would suggest not getting fish as you will only be working with about 4 gallons max in this type of setup. Maybe a couple snails as a clean up crew. 

Lots of options even with a 10 gallon and very little expense if you can plan it right.

Another thing I have found that is done with newts is to use a standard tank setup and provide them with some kind of floating platform. This can be done using styrofoam covered with peat or moss just so they have an area to get out of the water if they want to. Might be an option depending on what you really want in the long run. The only real requirements were to keep the temp around 68 F and to provide them with hiding places. This would allow for the use of a HOB as a filter with some kind of sponge or modified "baffle" to slow the water flow if needed. 

Do you know what kind of newt it is so I can try to get some more species specific information?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Regardless of the size of tank you end up with, you don't want to mix newts with fish. If the fish are big enough to not be eaten, it's likely they'll bother the newt when it's in the water. Newts are dirty, and water quality can be a chore to keep up with enough to keep the newt healthy. The smaller the amount of water the faster the rate of fluctuation, and the higher the extremes when it gets there. Newts are VERY sensitive to water quality.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

Nix the snails too. Two different sources say they are a bad idea because they will eat the slime coating of the newt if he sits still long enough or doesn't bother trying to get them off. 

Kinda makes me wonder how they survive so well in my local lakes!


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I've never had a problem with the snails. That will also depend on the species of snail you're dealing with. I wouldn't mix in apple snails or mystery snails, as they get too large, and can be predatory, but the small ram's horn snails don't seem to ever do any harm to the newts. I've been keeping those together for years without a problem. You'll just have to know for sure what species of snail you're dealing with.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

Well the article didn't say what kind so I guess I dooped there. Smaller ones are more likely to become food if they will eat them. :?: 

Alright battababy, I want to see a picture of yours if you have one. :wink: Maybe you can inspire another awesome vivarium. 

I really think that seeing one is a good way to go. If you haven't taken a look at the links in the stickies Kathryn you might want to. Could be just the inspiration you need and could give you a really good idea of what you want to accomplish.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I don't have one set up with newts right now. I had my hands full taking care of the store tanks when I was there. The only thing close to vivarium I have set up now is my 180, but instead of newts, I have an angelfish, a pleco, and a bunch of kuhli loaches in there. My husband started it with crypt plants and some awesome pieces of lace rock, and used sand for the loaches... part of the tank is bare bottom because the power head blows the sand away on one end, but it's a cool tank and easy to take care of. I can't offer pictures right now because my fish room is so crowded, it's too hard to get far enough away from the tank to get a full shot... the tank is too big and the space limitations are too cramped. The aisles in there are barely big enough for 1 adult to fit through. The room was originally set up for breeding, not public display, and until I can get moved and settled somewhere else, there's not much I can do about it. Sorry.
But, there are a lot of pictures I can get from the store tanks when I go there next. I have to make a trip in sometime in the next couple of days for my weekly brine, for the seahorses, so if I remember and have enough time, I'll snap some shots and bring them here. Most of those tanks I either set up myself, or had a hand in setting them up. At some point or other, I took care of them all.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks everybody. Really appreciated. I bought a 6 gallon, but it's specifically designed for vivarium use, so the water space can be used most effectively (ie it's 2 ft long but only 8inches tall)
So will I buy pure ammonia from my lfs to test the rocks?
I've decided not to go with the sloping gravel, just as it takes up a lot of space. 
So I won't have much space for a filter, but i'll try and find a small but effective one. 
I'll post pics of the tank when it's up and running.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

The ammonia will make sure that the rocks aren't going to react with anything and make your pH swing really bad. 

24" long tank and 8 inches tall, gonna be hard to get any type of filter in there at all but it depends on the height of the water. Maybe at about 6 inches you could get a small sponge filter or a really small internal to run but not much else. You could go with no gravel and make sure the sectioning off works good enough that you can just remove all the water weekly. 

You could even get away with something a little cooler. If you are going to have about 4-6 inches of water, you could use an AC HOB or any HOB type filter and make a waterfall from the outlet that would be a little different. The waterfall would go across the width of the tank from the outlet to the front over a home made gravel fall. A simple piece of plexi with some aquarium safe silicone covered with rocks could work really well. Would also give your Newt another place to sit where it gets plenty of water but can be out of the water at the same time. Just have to fashion a little mesh to keep the newt out of the HOB. If the filter doesn't have good capacity, my Aquaview is ok but doesn't have descent filtration capacity, the waterfall could work as a wet/dry biological filter.










The waterfall would come down to about 1/2 inch above the water line or less. Really depends on what you like as far as looks.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks. Sounds cool.  

I am not very good with technology in tanks, things like filters etc, so I'll have a look for some simple small internal filters, but I don't know what I'll find.
Are you talking about the outlet of the filter making a waterfall down the rocks? Sounds good, but I don't want to use up too much space with the filter. It really depends on what I can find.  
Thanks very much, I'll look around, as it sounds a good idea.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

Ok, this may help, the Aquaclear Hang on the Back filter would only take up about 1.5 inches of the water area if that. The majority of the filter will outside the tank and only a small tube comes down in the water. By far the best managament of space, IMHO. The waterfall won't take up any of the water area as it will be above the water and you were right about it carrying the water down form the outlet. 

It would actually be very simple and you can get the filter online for less than $20. 

 This filter  would work, I know it is reated for a 30 gallon but it will have a little more power to bring the water up and keep the tank a lot cleaner. The AC 20 may work but the AC 30 is my recommendation.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Thank you. I will look into that and see about buying one, but don't you need an undergravel filter for it to work? That's what the site says...?
Thank you agian, much appreciated.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

No under gravel filter with any AC filter. They replace undergravel filters although I have heard of people using them in conjunction. The AC 30 would be all you need, nothing else except for a couple replacement sponges, maybe some filter floss or some other media for the filter. 2 sponges will run it quite nicely. Big Als sells the sponges for really cheap.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Ok thanks. I'll have a look around for that, it looks like a good idea! Thanks again.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

Any descent HOB will work. Aquaclear, Penguin, Emporer but try to sdtay away form the ones that are solely cartridge filers. In that I mean ones that have a very narrow slot for filter media and will only hold the cartridges made for it. Hopefully others will recommend other filters that are better than the standard Aquaview and other cheap filters.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

The AquaClear sounded like a good idea, but it comes over the edge of the tank, and kinda hooks onto it, and they can't not have a hood. I would cut a hole in it, but it's a plastic one that would snap as soon as you put a blade to it. :roll: 
A small, silly problem, but one that makes all the difference. 
Does anyone know any small internal filters that will not break the surface of the water much (the newts like fairly still water) and can be hidden quite easily? I may start a thread asking about the filters, as this question may not be noticed right at the end of this thread.  
Thanks everyone so far.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

I use Exacto saws and coping saw to cut my hoods when I need to make them fit. I do see your point though. I don't know of an internal that is not going to disturb the water because of the air bubbles coming and won't break the surface. Most are about 6 inches tall that I have seen for that size tank. 

You could put a piece of pvc over the outlet to calm the water. Could also put a piece of plexi set diagonally in the corner where the filter will go and put a bunch of holes in it to circulate water but cut down on the flow. 

As for the AC HOB, if you get the hood to fit, you could fashion some plastic canvas that fits around it to keep your newts or other critters in the tank. Just a thought.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

I'll still be looking into it, nd thanks ever so muchfor your help.

If anybody else knows any small, not too powerful internal filter I could also look into, please tell me. Thanks everyone. You've all been a great help.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

HERE  is the only one I can recommend as I know absolutely nothing about them and I am going off the name alone. It is large enough to be useful and effective and is actually suggested for use in a terrarium. 

I hope someone will give you personal advice but this is all I can find.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Thank you very much. You have beena great help to me. seriously. It is very much appreciated.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Ok, I have got a Elite Mini filter for te tank. I am setting it up today, although shall not be finished for a while.
Merry Christmas!!


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

I was using a tetra reptofilter for a while. It's adequate for a 10 gallon tank. Attaches to the glass with suction cups. Draws water in through slots in the bottom inch and a half of the filter, and dumps it out through a spout about 6" from the bottom of the filter. If you can find a rock the right size, it makes a good waterfall. The other internal I have used is a duetto 50. Nice little critter. Between that and the repto filter, it kept a 20 gallon tank with a 2" turtle clean for a week at a time between cleanings. The duetto is smaller, has a little venturi attachment you can use to pull air into it if it's fully submerged. It has a rotating outflow, so the current can be better directed into a curent killing arrangement (or to enhance the current). Also, the repto filter has to be straight up and down. The Duetto can be in any position so long as the inlet is underwater.

Word of warning on using HOBs for waterfalls - I've tried it, and it doesn't work all that well. The impellers aren't designed to raise water more than a couple of inches - just over the lip of the tank. The outflow tends to pulse when the water level is lower than an inch or two below the top of the tank, and can really tail off below 3 or 4". If you want to do a waterfall, get a cannister filter or some other sort of pumping arrangement that's designed to lift water a couple of feet rather than a couple of inches.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I have bought an Elite Mini filter now, I know, not very exciting, but I don't want things to get too complicated, and I think the newts would prefer still calm water. As long as there is some sort of adequate filtration, they're ok.
I've just got one question to ask:
 The newts have gone from a small tank with very shallow water and much land, to a bigger tank with larger amounts of water, and not as much land. Will they adjust quickly? I just don't want them to drown.   
Thanks,
Kathryn


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

No, they won't drown.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks; I didn't think they would, I just fret over these sort of things anyway.  lol. I'll start off with not too much water, and build it up slowly, just to make sure!! 
Thanks again,
Kathryn


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

I think as long as they don't havea probem getting to land they should be ok. Depending on how much land they have now, they might feel cramped if they want to spend much time on it and you might need to give them a cave or something to hide under.


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## Kathryn (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes, thanks. I've built up rocks on either side out of the water, and I will have a couple of those terrestrial plants coming out of the water to give them another land space. They've been in a day now, and as far as I can see, they really like it!  In their old tank they stayed still for long periods of time and just la their heads on the gravel, but they are strutting about, swimming about and climbing about as if they own the place! (Which I suppose they do.)  
Thanks very much for your help. Very much appreciated.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

Now all we need is apicture.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

At petsmart you can get a 10 gallon tank for only 9 dollars (but it has no hood). Just a suggestion on getting a bigger tank...


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