# Help with new saltwater setup



## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

Since a nano cube seems like too much work for a SW beginner I decided to go with a 46 gallon bow for my introductory SW tank. I got the tank, stand, hood and a compact 2 bulb 36" T5 light kit delivered for $150.00 from somebody in our local reef club. I purchased a RHS-10ATC refractometer as I wasn't too happy with the deep 6 salinity meter.

I would like to do a hang on protein skimmer and hang on filter. Any recommendations? I want to avoid drilling this tank if at all possible.

I also would like a recommendation for a good heater for this size tank.

Any recommendations on which power heads to buy and how many I need?

How much live rock/sand will I need once I acquire all of the other equipment I need.

Is an API marine master test kit good enough? What other test kits should I get?

Is a 12G nano (once I get the light fixed) a decent quarantine/hospital tank?

Once I get all the equipment and start the cycling process I will start asking questions about stocking lists.

Thanks all.


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## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

Live rock 1.5 lbs to 2 lbs a gallon. Should be around 65 to 80 Lbs.
Live sand a one inch bed would be ideal. Or no less then 4 inchs. Not any where in betwen.
The rest i will leave to Pasfur. He will be better off to help you then i could.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

mollies said:


> The rest i will leave to Pasfur. He will be better off to help you then i could.


There are a great number of people on this forum that can offer experienced advice, but I will be happy to give you my views.

I would use a 4''-5'' sand bed of reef grade aragonite sand, along with 60-75 pounds of rock. The rock can be a mix of dry rock and live rock. On my 180 I used about 80% dry rock from Marco Rocks The finest aquarium rock available, base rock, live rock, reef rock, marco rock, reef tank saltwater fish, live corals, Marco rocks, Fiji live rock, Tonga Live rock and 20% cured live rock.

For a skimmer, you really do get what you pay for. Hang on models leave something to be desired, especially if you plan to make this a reef. If you do go hang on, then i would buy an oversized model for your tank size. Here are a couple of options:
Super Skimmer with Needle Wheel - Up to 65 Gallon | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
Super Skimmer with Needle Wheel - Up to 65 Gallon | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
Berlin X2 Venturi Skimmer | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

This unit would probably be my personal choice, because it has a surface skimmer and media chamber:
Coral Vue Octopus Hang-on-the-Back Skimmer with filter system 90g

A 12 gallon would make an adequate quarantine tank for you, given that your fish purchases will be smaller in size.

As for test kits, you will need pH, alkalinity, calcium, and Nitrate for the long term testing needs. You will also want to purchase supplements. I use Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH and Kent Marine Liquid Calcium.


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## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> There are a great number of people on this forum that can offer experienced advice, but I will be happy to give you my views.
> 
> There are but you have helped so many. Includeing me. And are realy good at what you do. We all thank you.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I really like that Octopus HOB skimmer. That surface skimming feature is key when not using a reef-ready tank.

I believe that the API Master Test Kit is Ca, Alk, Nitrate and pH. These four tests will be the cornerstones of your chemistry. I check Alk and Calcium _at_ _least_ once a week, and Nitrate and pH monthly (unless something is wrong, which I would test daily until the problem was resolved). 

I personaaly use API for Nitrates. I use API and some other brand (can't remember the name) for pH. I use Salifert for Calcium and Alkalinity as I wasn't happy with API or Red Sea's versions of these two tests.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

wake49 said:


> I really like that Octopus HOB skimmer. That surface skimming feature is key when not using a reef-ready tank.
> 
> I believe that the API Master Test Kit is Ca, Alk, Nitrate and pH. These four tests will be the cornerstones of your chemistry. I check Alk and Calcium _at_ _least_ once a week, and Nitrate and pH monthly (unless something is wrong, which I would test daily until the problem was resolved).
> 
> I personaaly use API for Nitrates. I use API and some other brand (can't remember the name) for pH. I use Salifert for Calcium and Alkalinity as I wasn't happy with API or Red Sea's versions of these two tests.


The Octopus skimmer says it has a filter compartment... I would still need a seperate filter (thinking of a Rena XP3), correct?


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

NC Frank said:


> The Octopus skimmer says it has a filter compartment... I would still need a seperate filter (thinking of a Rena XP3), correct?



No no no. You do not want any other filter, other than the protein skimmer and live rock. The term "filter compartment" is just a bad name. It is actually a nice place to put chemical media such as activated carbon or phosphate resign.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> No no no. You do not want any other filter, other than the protein skimmer and live rock. The term "filter compartment" is just a bad name. It is actually a nice place to put chemical media such as activated carbon or phosphate resign.


So what should I place in the "filter compartment"

I will defer to the experts here as I want to do this right the first time. The reviews that I have read on the model that you guys have suggested have been good. 

I have a bunch of small activated carbon bags for the nano... so in theory I could just place one of those on the tank?

That leaves me with a heater and with powerheads. I have a single power head (koralia 2) which I just bought new online. Do I need more than one of these?


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

NC Frank said:


> That leaves me with a heater and with powerheads. I have a single power head (koralia 2) which I just bought new online. Do I need more than one of these?


For the heater I would use a 350 watt stealth heater. I had good luck with this in my 46 bow. 

I used a Koralia three and a Koralia two in my 46, and I don't think that was enough flow. I would've used two three's or three two's if I had to do it again.



NC Frank said:


> So what should I place in the "filter compartment"


You are about to answer your own question:



NC Frank said:


> I have a bunch of small activated carbon bags for the nano... so in theory I could just place one of those on the tank?


Make sure they are clean and not too old. Activated Carbon is something that you should replace every once in a while...


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

wake49 said:


> For the heater I would use a 350 watt stealth heater. I had good luck with this in my 46 bow.
> 
> I used a Koralia three and a Koralia two in my 46, and I don't think that was enough flow. I would've used two three's or three two's if I had to do it again.
> 
> ...


I bought them all within the last week (planned on changing them every 3 weeks). 

Going to order some more koralia 2s then. I guess having 3 of the 2's would allow me to have a ton of flexibility with tank placement. Going to order the heater now too.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

NC Frank said:


> I bought them all within the last week (planned on changing them every 3 weeks).
> 
> Going to order some more koralia 2s then. I guess having 3 of the 2's would allow me to have a ton of flexibility with tank placement. Going to order the heater now too.


Very Good.

Make sure that you have one or two of the powerheads kind of low, pointing a little upwards. This will keep detritus off the substrate, and hopefully keep it in the column long enough to be absorbed into the skimmer.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

wake49 said:


> Very Good.
> 
> Make sure that you have one or two of the powerheads kind of low, pointing a little upwards. This will keep detritus off the substrate, and hopefully keep it in the column long enough to be absorbed into the skimmer.


I will ask for assistance with placement once I have everything I need to get started.

I just have to pull the trigger on that protein skimmer and I should be good to do.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

Would this be a decent protein skimmer?

Amazon.com: ViaAqua Multi-Skimmer Deluxe w/ 5W UV Sterilizer: Home & Garden


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

NC Frank said:


> Would this be a decent protein skimmer?
> 
> Amazon.com: ViaAqua Multi-Skimmer Deluxe w/ 5W UV Sterilizer: Home & Garden



Looking at the design and reading some online reviews, I am convinced this skimmer is a waste of your money. I have used both the Prism and Skilter, which have similar features to aspects of the venturi and skimming chamber design. Both of these units are horrible, and I believe the ViaAqua would be equally poor.

I have no doubt that the Coralife would far outperform the unit you have listed, and do so for 1/2 the price. You could use the saved money to buy a separate UV, if that is your concern.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> Looking at the design and reading some online reviews, I am convinced this skimmer is a waste of your money. I have used both the Prism and Skilter, which have similar features to aspects of the venturi and skimming chamber design. Both of these units are horrible, and I believe the ViaAqua would be equally poor.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Coralife would far outperform the unit you have listed, and do so for 1/2 the price. You could use the saved money to buy a separate UV, if that is your concern.


One final one... I have been told that a lot of people use this one:

AquaC Remora Pro Hang-On Protein Skimmer


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

NC Frank said:


> One final one... I have been told that a lot of people use this one:
> 
> AquaC Remora Pro Hang-On Protein Skimmer


Anybody have any input on the AquaC Remora Pro Hang-On?


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I used the Coralife 65 Needle Wheel Super Skimmer on my 46 gallon bow for quite a while and was happy with its production.

I have never used the Aqua C Remora, but I have heard good things.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

wake49 said:


> I used the Coralife 65 Needle Wheel Super Skimmer on my 46 gallon bow for quite a while and was happy with its production.
> 
> I have never used the Aqua C Remora, but I have heard good things.


If I use the Needle Wheel what can I do for chem. filtering?


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

The Aqua C Remora has a great reputation, but I also have no personal experience.

Chemical filtration is not a requirement, but can be used in almost any method. I just throw a bag of carbon in my sump, or in your case inside any hang on filter. You could just use any old hang on, such as a Whisper, and throw a bag of carbon inside.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> The Aqua C Remora has a great reputation, but I also have no personal experience.
> 
> Chemical filtration is not a requirement, but can be used in almost any method. I just throw a bag of carbon in my sump, or in your case inside any hang on filter. You could just use any old hang on, such as a Whisper, and throw a bag of carbon inside.


Should I use just carbon or should I use the whisper (or any brand I get) cartridge with the floss?


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

just the carbon in a media reactor works great. i also run one with phosban.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

NC Frank said:


> Should I use just carbon or should I use the whisper (or any brand I get) cartridge with the floss?


You will need much more carbon that what comes in the Whisper packets. Personally, I buy the bags of carbon that is sold for the Aqua Clear filters,and i just throw the bag in the back of a Whisper, or in my sump. It works well to keep the water clear.

In situations where carbon is used without a protein skimmer, you would want forced water flow through the carbon, rather than the casual contact you get with the method I use.

OF2F makes the best suggestion, which is a media reactor.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

i personally get 5 gallon buckets of it. we actually get black trash bags full of carbon but divide it up into buckets among my club.

the method of using a media bag or pantyhose for carbon works, but keep in mind water will follow the path with least resistance. having it pumped into a chamber full of carbon is most effective, as the water has no option around it. a media reactor runs about $30 and if your DIY capable ive seen some DIY versions.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

onefish2fish said:


> i personally get 5 gallon buckets of it. we actually get black trash bags full of carbon but divide it up into buckets among my club.
> 
> the method of using a media bag or pantyhose for carbon works, but keep in mind water will follow the path with least resistance. having it pumped into a chamber full of carbon is most effective, as the water has no option around it. a media reactor runs about $30 and if your DIY capable ive seen some DIY versions.


I am DIY capable but I won't do a DIY project if it is only going to save me a few bucks.  Work + a 5 month old make it hard to find time for DIY so they have to be worth it.

Can you recommend a decent media reactor?


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

*Equipment checklist*

I have the following equipment so far:

46 gallon bow, stand, lid
Coralife Aqualight High Output 36 inch T5 Fixture - 39 watt 10k, 39 watt actinic
3 Koralia 2 power heads
1 250w Stealth heater
1 API Master Salt Water test kit
1 API Master Reef Test Kit
1 RHS-10ATC Portable Salinity Refractometer
1 Deep Six salinity meter
1 Super Skimmer 65 needle wheel

I will be purchasing a whisper or aquaclear hang on filter for just activated carbon filtering.

What do I still need (other than sand, live rock, salt mix and patience) to make this work?

The goal is soft corals with a small number of "community fish" centered around a pair of false percs, a diamond or watchman goby (or both if possible) and one undetermined center piece fish that can live comfortably in a 46 gallon. Eventually after the tank is well established (upwards of 6 months problem free) I would like to add a rose anemone for the clowns if possible (and if I can do it with minimal risk to the soft corals I am looking at buying). 

How much live sand do I need for a 4" bed in a 46 bow? Is keeping the sand bed less than 1" an option. I am leaning towards listening to Pasfur and going with the 4" bed.

If I bought 40 pounds of base rock from Marco rocks should I get one of his package deals that include 40 pounds Bahamas aragonite sand? (I am shooting for 75 pounds of rock and certainly more than 40 pounds of sand unless I stay at a 1" bed - just trying to save money). If anybody is motivated enough to tell me exactly what to order from Marco rocks (combo of sand, base and live rock) I would be willing to defer to their experience. Is the same from Marco "live" sand or will I have to seed it somehow?


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I would go ahead and order one of the packages from Marco rocks. 40 Pound box Key Largo Rock, <br>40 Pounds Bahamas Aragonite Sand<BR>pay shipping on rock only - KL40-40 This one looks nice, with 40 pounds of Key Largo Rock and 40 pounds of sand. I would probably order an additional 40 pounds of sand to reach a full 4'' depth. You may have a little sand left over, but this will still be your least expensive option.

You have no reason to purchase live sand, provided you seed the tank with at least 10-15 pounds of experienced live rock. A handfull of rubble from the bottom of the live rock vat at your LFS will proved helpful to seed diversity into the sand bed. Usually the LFS will let you take a couple scoops of this rubble for free, and you just bury it into the back of your sand bed. This is a trick i've used for years and will really help to kick start the sand.

Maybe I missed it, but it doesn't look like you've made a decision yet on which alkalinity and calcium supplement to use. I personally use Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH and Kent Marine liquid calcium chloride. There are a number of nice 2 part additives on the market as well.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> I would go ahead and order one of the packages from Marco rocks. 40 Pound box Key Largo Rock, <br>40 Pounds Bahamas Aragonite Sand<BR>pay shipping on rock only - KL40-40 This one looks nice, with 40 pounds of Key Largo Rock and 40 pounds of sand. I would probably order an additional 40 pounds of sand to reach a full 4'' depth. You may have a little sand left over, but this will still be your least expensive option.
> 
> You have no reason to purchase live sand, provided you seed the tank with at least 10-15 pounds of experienced live rock. A handfull of rubble from the bottom of the live rock vat at your LFS will proved helpful to seed diversity into the sand bed. Usually the LFS will let you take a couple scoops of this rubble for free, and you just bury it into the back of your sand bed. This is a trick i've used for years and will really help to kick start the sand.
> 
> Maybe I missed it, but it doesn't look like you've made a decision yet on which alkalinity and calcium supplement to use. I personally use Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH and Kent Marine liquid calcium chloride. There are a number of nice 2 part additives on the market as well.


Thanks again. I was looking at the same 40+40 package and I added another 40 pounds of the sand for barely over $150.00 shipped.

This sand is safe for sand sifters and fish like a diamond goby. correct?

I was planning on using kent products for supplements. I actually already have the Super Buffer DKH. 

I am going to lean heavily on you and some others when it comes to setup and cycling and when to start adding supplements, inverts, soft corals and eventually fish. 

I will be out of the country for 2.5 weeks in December and will have a friend come over to top off with RO water (he is actually going to come over daily to feed my discus and angels). Assuming everything gets here my target setup will be next weekend. Is it safe to let it sit with lights on a timer for 2.5 weeks while I am out of the country and unable to test parameters? Obviously this will be before I add any inverts, corals, etc. I figure I should take advantage of my time away by allowing part of the maturing process to occur while I am happily on vacation.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

NC Frank said:


> This sand is safe for sand sifters and fish like a diamond goby. correct?
> 
> I was planning on using kent products for supplements. I actually already have the Super Buffer DKH.
> 
> I will be out of the country for 2.5 weeks in December and will have a friend come over to top off with RO water (he is actually going to come over daily to feed my discus and angels). Assuming everything gets here my target setup will be next weekend. Is it safe to let it sit with lights on a timer for 2.5 weeks while I am out of the country and unable to test parameters?


Yes on the sand.

When you say Kent supplements, what supplements do you mean? Don't get caught up in the crazy product line that they offer. You do not want to supplement iodine or strontium. (This is up for debate, so you may find conflicting opinions.) I only dose calcium and an alkalinity buffer.

I think it is great that you are going out of town and will not be tempted by the tank. Just let your friend top off and allow the tank some time to mature.


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> Yes on the sand.
> 
> When you say Kent supplements, what supplements do you mean? Don't get caught up in the crazy product line that they offer. You do not want to supplement iodine or strontium. (This is up for debate, so you may find conflicting opinions.) I only dose calcium and an alkalinity buffer.
> 
> I think it is great that you are going out of town and will not be tempted by the tank. Just let your friend top off and allow the tank some time to mature.


By supplements I meant the two you recommended:

Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH (already bought this for the nano)
and Kent Marine liquid calcium chloride.

At what point do I start adding supplements?


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

can anyone recommend a media reactor?


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