# another 10g fowlr build



## trukgirl

Ok so I am starting my own thread on this so I'm not hijacking dylan94's thread! :lol:

Sorry if there are any silly/dumb questions but I am a total noob to saltwater.

*PLEASE... any and all advice welcome!!!!!*!

Anyways... my plan is to convert my 10g into a saltwater FOWLR. (At least till I am more used to caring for it and can upgrade my lighting. _Maybe_ later down the road I will do corals.)

As far as equipment goes... I would like to upgrade my filter. 
Right now it has a HOB AquaTech 5-15g. (aquatech filter link)
I would like to go with either a Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheel (link) in the 20g size
or an Aqueon 5-20g power filter (link)
Both descriptions say they are OK for saltwater.

As far as my heater goes, I need to keep it in there, right? (its for a 5-15g)

Ok... with powerheads.... what is their purpose? Just to make a current? Or do I need to have it hooked into an undergravel filter? I don't quite understand this part.

As far as stocking goes, I definitely want at least 1 clown, possibly one of the ones that is black and white instead of orange. 

I want to have 1 more fish.... 
either a yellow watchman Goby (http://nemospets.com/images/view.aspx?productId=2115)
or a fire fish (http://nemospets.com/images/view.aspx?productId=2108)
If I can have all 3 it would be super, but I don't want to crowd them.
These links are from the LFS that is about 2miles from my house... they are seriously geared at Saltwater! I am going to be getting live rock and sand from them as well, and they carry coral frags and all KINDS of stuff not listed on the website.

BTW, what is everyone's opinions on a clown and one of the above fish together? I haven't asked them yet at the store.

As far as a cleanup crew goes, I'd like to have a fire shrimp (I think thats what they are called, they are super bright red with a bit of white dots on them) and some type of starfish. Does this sound ok?


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## fishesfriend

Please read this link for filtration. (link)


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## trukgirl

WOW. That changes things!

Thanks.


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## trukgirl

Mmmkay... how about this for a filter & protein skimmer together??
Taam Rio protein skimmer


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## dylan94

Yay now I can follow your thread for double the information  Your tank will be awesome trukgirl, also that LFS that you posted links to looks incredible. My LFS is big like that too, but I think yours has more saltwater fish than mine 
Good luck with your tank


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## trukgirl

Thanks!


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## willieturnip

Powerheads are just for current. Marine life is used to extremely fast currents in nature and it's virtually a requirement for at the very least 15x the volume of the tank to be turned over per hour. 

In a marine tank, weather it be FOWLR, reef or whatever, live rock does most (and possibly all) of the filtration. Skimmers and such are completely unnecessary for small tanks. I have been running my 20 gallon (used to be a 15) skimmer-less for a month or two with no negative changes. 

Do some reading of the build threads on here, thats how I got into marine and it has been very successful.


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## dylan94

willlieturnip: I was just curious as to how your 20 gallon used to be a 15 gallon. Or did you mean you switched the 15 for a 20. i think that is what you meant... wow I'm dumb.

trukgirl: I only plan on having an HOB filter on my tank, mostly for beneficial bacteria growth and like a bonus filtration to help the live rock a bit. I don't plan on using any UV sterilizer or protein skimmer or any of that. I do however plan on doing frequent water changes.


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## willieturnip

I siliconed another 5 odd inches to the top of the tank while it was still filled and just topped it up when the silicone was dry..




I moved everything into a new tank. :lol:


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## wake49

dylan94 said:


> trukgirl: I only plan on having an HOB filter on my tank, mostly for beneficial bacteria growth and like a bonus filtration to help the live rock a bit. I don't plan on using any UV sterilizer or protein skimmer or any of that. I do however plan on doing frequent water changes.


dylan,

Water changes and Protein Skimmers do not do the same thing. If you are running a reef tank, the best method of filtration is going to be:

Live Rock: Have enough to feel that the tank looks "full" of rock. If you look at some members tanks and online examples, you 'll get a good idea of how much.

Live Sand: 4-6" of depth will give you good denitrification. 

Those two above are for the nitrogen cycle. Aerobic bacteria live in the shallower depths of the sand and rock and convert ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. Anaerobic bacteria that live in the deeper depths of the rock and sand where oxygen is not abundant convert nitrate into nitrogen gas, which leaves the system naturally.

The only other important form of filtration is the one that directly removes dissolved organic compounds (DOCs) from the water column. This can be done in one of two ways. The protein skimmer, through foam fractionization, removes DOCs before they can break down in the system. The other method (which I am suggesting based on the smaller size of the tank) is activated carbon. This also removes DOCs directly from the water column.

Water changes only remove the end result of this breakdown from the water. At this point the DOCs, which are an acidic compound, have already had an adverse effect on your Alkalinity. You need a method that controls DOCs before this happens, such as said methods above.

I would run an empty HOB filter with just activated carbon in a fine mesh bag to remove DOCs. You will rinse the bag every few days and replace the carbon monthly. 

I advise against running the HOB filter with anything but the activated carbon. Filter pads collect detritus and food particles that break down into nitrates and phosphates, which have an adverse effect on your system.


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## trukgirl

LOL Willie!!!

wake49 - thank you for the clarification. I went to my LFS finally yesterday. They weren't busy so I got to chat with one of the very knowlegeable guys there about my plans. He also suggested that I get a protein skimmer. He said he would never run a saltwater tank w/o one. He did tell me to stay away from the types of protein skimmers that run using an airstone, that they were poo and to get one that has an actual motor. 

He also said they go by a _general_ rule of 1 lb live rock per gallon, that it usually gives the "full" look. He told me that all the fish I was planning to get should be OK together. I also apparently need more cleanup crew like snails/crabs in addition to the ones I am planning. I think the type of starfish I am going to get is a "chocolate chip" starfish!


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## willieturnip

I don't agree with what your LFS has told you. 

Marine tanks can easily be run skimmer-less, especially smaller tanks. 

For the latter few months when I was using a protein skimmer, I made one using an air stone and it was superb. REALLY good. Admittedly it was recirculating with a pump, but all the air was coming from an air stone. 

What I find is that the design of the skimmer, FAR outweighs the type of skimmer. All you need is small bubbles with a high contact time. It really doesn't matter how that's archived at all.


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## trukgirl

Well, maybe all the ones he's used w/an airstone happened to be poorly designed? :/

With everything I've read about filtering, etc since my first post about this... I think I'd rather have a protein skimmer personally.


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## wake49

The 1 lb/ gallon rule is a good way to ge started, but remember that some rock is more dense than others. If you buy really wet, non-porous rock, than you will reach that 1 lb a gallon fast. I just judge it by eye.

And you will do great with a Protein skimmer. It will help keep your alkalinity in check much easier than without one...


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## willieturnip

Thats probably it. Some are good, some are bad. Easy to judge one based on another as they appear so similar. 

I'm not advising to not have a protein skimmer, I absolutely recommend it in fact. I'm merely saying there's no reason to be petrified of running a saltwater without a skimmer. :lol:


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## trukgirl

Thank you, wake & willie 

Yeah I would rather have a protein skimmer... I do eventually want to do some corals, even though it may be months and months down the road.

I have to completely prove myself at this before my hubby will let me have his seal of approval for a large marine tank (since it's such an investment!!) I'm a stay at home Mom so its all his decision since I don't pay the bills, LOL! So I think a skimmer will give me a little extra failure insurance, heh.

Oh, and I think I may have finally decided on a skimmer... AquaEuroUSA Nano and just keep my existing filter and use a fine carbon bag in it. I already have a big canister of activated carbon anyways, I don't think there is any reason for me to get a different filter just for that when I will have the live rock/sand and protein skimmer. 

Will I still need a powerhead with both of those? Or will they provide enough circulation?


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## wake49

You won't need a powerhead until you start with the corals. I think that this would be enough circulation for a FOWLR>


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## trukgirl

Thanks. I have checked all my LFSs around the area, none carry in stock the right skimmer for me.

I was planning on setting it up tomorrow, w/the rock, sand, heater, & filter... 

will it be ok to go ahead and set it up w/o the protein skimmer till it gets here, since I have to order it online and have it shipped??


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## dylan94

Wow, trukgirl, your already starting! i wish I could start now, but I have to wait until my basement is finished, so that I can move things around and have space for the new tank that will hold my current fish.

I kind of felt the same way you do about the protein skimmer in the beginning. It would kind of give me that sense of extra security for the health of my tank, but then I thought it would also not be that hard just to do water changes and refill the carbon things every month. It's only like 6$ for three carbon refills. Protein skimmers are a little bit more expensive anyways.


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## trukgirl

Yah, I am going to get my living room cleaned up this eve and move the 10g back in there at the end of the entertainment center (It was there originally before we got the 55g last yr, moved it into the office) if its going to be my first saltwater tank I want everyone to be able to look at it all the time haha. I've actually been planning this ever since my sister decided to give me back the 5g Eclipse Hex tank I bought her for Xmas. She decided fish weren't for her. So I figured out how to re-arrange my fish (thanks to aqadvisor) in a good way between the 55g & the 5 (I had 2 deaths last month of some large fish in my 55g, so I had some room) Plus I got the really small fish away from my Knifefish... he is getting big enough to eat them lol!

I'm going to go ahead and buy saltwater from the LFS, and get my live rock & sand in, and have it running hopefully sometime tomorrow. I have to order my protein skimmer so it will be a week before I put THAT on, but at least I will get the cycle going. Oh, and I WILL be doing the same you are with the carbon anyways, using my existing filter.


.......I've also read a lot of set-up guides that say you can put a dead shrimp (like a very small peel n eat shrimp that humans eat) in a stocking or just in the tank to get the bacteria cycle going??? Anyone have experience with that??


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## dylan94

Ya I heard about that too. I think it's just because the bacteria eat the shrimp, therefore speeding up the cycling process. It's so exciting, setting up a new tank. Aren't you anxiously awaiting tomorrow? I know I would be... I am and I am only setting up my tank in a few weeks or so.

Good luck with the setup


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## wake49

Don't worry about the dead shrimp. The Live Sand and Live Rock will be chock full of beneficial bacteria. The "cycle" that you think of in relation to Freshwater tanks dont really matter to us on the marine side. We are more concerned with the tank being mature than cycled. The cycle in my tank took about a week, maybe less. It took my tank about a month for it to mature. First you will get a reading of zero in Nitrites and Ammonia, and a small reading in Nitrates (5-20ppm). Next you will see a Diatom Bloom, as the rocks and sand will get a rust-colored algae growing on them. Once this comes and goes Alkalinity and Calicum testing become vital. You want a reading of 8-12 dKH (Alkakinity) and 400-450 ppm (Calcium). Next you will see microfauna, such as copepods and amphipods. They will look like little "lice" on the glass and sand. When Coraline algae starts to set in, you are ready to quarantine your first fish.


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## teddyzaper

please dont go with that skimmer, that isnt really that good, the concast area is not large enough for the skimmer to do much. as for those fish, a 10gal is way to small for 3 fish. i would do the firefish and the clown, the watchman needs more space because they eat on stuff in the water and on the rocks (forgot what its called) the taam nano skimmer doesnt work, i got one and the impeller didnt even run and the whole thing just looked horrible, i recomend spending at least $100 on a skimmer, i got this:
http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaC_Na...iums_Reefs-AquaC-AC3411-FIPSHO-AC3431-vi.html and it is absolutly amazing, it produces so much skimmate and the skimmate is a dark tea color! http://www.marinedepot.com/CPR_SR2_..._to_100_Gallons-CPR-CR1161-FIPSISVSUH-vi.html this is also a nice skimmer, but its in tank so it might be distracting. 

you will also need a hydrometer and a saltwater master test kit, reverse osmosis water and of course a light.

in a 10gal a chocolate chip starfish will get WAY to big for the tank, i would recomend sticking with the shrimp, some hermits, and some snails for your CUC. also i would go a 4-6inch sand bed for biological reasons 

i hope this helps and i hope you do good on your tank, ill be stopping in to look at this thread often because this seems very interesting.


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## trukgirl

Thanks Wake. 

I just ordered the saltwater tanks for dummies book off Amazon since all these online "guides" I've been reading for so long are SO inconsistent with some things. The "for dummies" books have never steered me wrong LOL!

Teddyzaper - the reason I am not getting a $100 or even $75 skimmer is that my husband would flip his lid. The only reason i got him talked into this for the 10g is that it wouldn't cost a ton. I'm going to be spending enough on everything else for it. So unfortunately I have to go with something cheaper. Once I can prove myself with this tank, we are going to start investing in a 75g or (hopefully!) 125g & the equipment.

I already have a master test kit, light hood, and I am not going to mess with RO water for now... I have a great LFS abt 2 miles from here, that sells pre-mixed ro saltwater.

How long would it take a chocolate chip starfish to get too big for the tank?


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## trukgirl

Dylan - it is DEFINITELY exciting! Especially treading into brand new territory!! LOL

The LFS opens at noon, so I'm hoping some time this afternoon I'll have some pics!!


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## trukgirl

Off topic, but... Oh yay! Just figured out I can logon, reply to threads, even see pix on my blackberry on here! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dylan94

I can't wait to see pictures. How deep will your sand bed be?


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## trukgirl

I decided to go with the 1" sand. Not to mention that a 10 lb bag of live aragonite sand was $20!

I got some nice live rock. One of them looks like a large piece of a branch-y coral. And I am pretty sure I saw a LARGE hitchhiker on it... a snail w/a black & white shell. 

Everything is up and running! However... pics are a bust right now, it looks like a smoke bomb went off in the tank from the sand and initial water placement! LOL! Its so thick you can't even see halfway into the tank.


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## trukgirl

Its really starting to clear up... I should be able to take some pics by the time the sun goes down! (I'm in central time)


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## trukgirl

OK... its still kind of cloudy, but I took a few pics! Check it out in my aquariums tabs.

Its so odd, but I am pretty sure I've seen several teeny tiny animals of some sort, about the size of a grain of rice?? They seem to be deliberately moving, not moving from the current.


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## dylan94

it looks so good!!! Your live rock is gorgeous!

About those little things that you saw moving around, from what I've heard/read they can be pods. I think there are copepods and amphipods or something like that.


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## trukgirl

Thanks Dylan!

I posted it in the corals section, but I think I may have a polyp??? that appeared sometime last night...


















Below are some new pix of the tank cleared up that I took last night also!!


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## dylan94

Your tank looks awesome!


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## trukgirl

Ooo thanks!! Turns out those polyps were "aiptasia" ... a pest that I have to get rid of. 

I got another rock when I was at the LFS... have to take more pics later LOL!


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## dylan94

can't wait to see more pictures!!!!


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## trukgirl

I re-arranged the rocks since I got the new one... I'll take pics when the dust settles again! LOL

I got my book today... (saltwater aquariums for dummies) Deep into reading it now.


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## wake49

I like that rock on the front right. Where did you get this rock? Online or at your LFS?


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## dylan94

I'm craving pictures!!!! I am enjoying watching your tank progress. It's like watching an instruction manual for my tank  

Wake49- I noticed that rock too, it's really good looking. I was wondering about it too.


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## trukgirl

Got everything at the LFS! Its all Fiji rock... that one was one of their "premium" pieces that I never noticed before... they just re-arranged a lot of the store and are expanding everything, they now have a tank with "premium" live rock. Its $9/lb vs $5 for the normal, but the owner was there and she gave it to me for the same price  (a guy that my hubby works with and his wife owns it)


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## wake49

Nice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trukgirl

I re-arranged the rocks since I got the new one... I stacked them in a much better way - it made a lot more hidey-holes for the fish. My protein skimmer should have been here friday... but its due for delivery today. I will DEFINITELY have some new pics tonight!!

My husband has been talking to my oldest bro (he lives in VA and I didn't even know he had saltwater tanks since I've never been to his house there!) He evidently keeps Niger triggerfish. Feeds them goldfish! yikes lol! Anyways, he is a bit old-school on starting up tanks... he told my hubby we should get damselfish to put in there.... well he just kept insisting that we do it so he took us up to Petco and we got 2 damsels. They are pretty... but I haven't even had Diatom in the tank yet!!! >>INSERT EYE ROLL HERE<<

PLEASE don't get mad at me about it... *I KNOW* it wasn't the right thing to do....


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## trukgirl

Well, I got the protein skimmer. The instructions were total crap and definitely not for a person that has never used a PS before. I have no idea if it is working correctly or if I have it set correctly but I have a question in to the "reef squad" at marinedepot.com where I got it.


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## dylan94

What species of damsels are they? I know a lot of damsels can get really territorial. What was your brothers reasoning for adding the damsels? I hope your tank and your damsels do well...

BTW Niger Triggerfish are gorgeous. Did you know that the Hawaiian word for triggerfish is humuhumunukunukuapua'a?
LOL, just a random fact that I knew 

Good Luck and btw, I am waiting for pictures of your tank and your damsels!!!!


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## trukgirl

Well, they are: 1 yellow-tail, & 1 super bright blue one, not sure of the type of damsel, it was in the "assorted damsel" tank lol. I stayed out mowing a couple lawns late yesterday so I didnt get the pics... sorry!! I can't take good tank pics in the living room during the day, we have a giant bay window that just lets in too much light. 

His reasoning in the damsels are that it will help to cycle and age the tank faster. Its old-school and sort of inhumane, which is why I wasn't planning on doing it. Hubby pushed me into it though. He is getting super excited about it, which is actually a really good sign for me... I may get a big marine tank sooner than I hoped for!  Which means my (by the time I can do a bigger tank lol!) I will be able to use this smaller tank as a hospital tank or something later down the line. Yay!

I'm trying to talk him into a 125g... I eventually (once I get good and experienced in the marine tanks) want to get a Moorish Idol... I know they are hard to keep, etc... I've been doing my homework, thats why I say eventually.... hehe


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## trukgirl

Oh, and I forgot to mention... I put in a ? to marinedepot.com where I ordered the protein skimmer, and I got an answer back really fast! He pretty much explained it all for me well enough that a beginner could understand lol. I think I would definitely order from them again, they shipped it like an hour after I ordered it and their customer service has been great.


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## wake49

trukgirl said:


> I'm trying to talk him into a 125g... I eventually (once I get good and experienced in the marine tanks) want to get a Moorish Idol... I know they are hard to keep, etc... I've been doing my homework, thats why I say eventually.... hehe


The Moorish Idol will not live in captivity. Period. Read this, The Moorish Idol. Keeping one succesfully in this hobby means keeping it alive for a year at most. Hardly success in my book. There are many problems this fish presents: problems with shipping, problems with acclimation, starvation from not eating, starvation although appearing to eat well and compromised immune systems. Just letting you know to save your money now. (Believe me, I would LOVE this fish...it's just not feasible)

Look at the Long-Finned Bannerfish. The Heniochus Butterfly is another name for it. They are commonly referred to as the "poor man's idol."


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## aunt kymmie

The Heniochus Butterfly looks so much like a Moorish Idol, I had no idea that such a similar looking fish to the Idol existed. I think the Heniochus Butterfly is a beautiful fish!


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## wake49

I know. I wish they were "reef-safe." I can't house a Heniochus with corals, cause that is just a nice snack for them...


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## aunt kymmie

wake49 said:


> I know. I wish they were "reef-safe." I can't house a Heniochus with corals, cause that is just a nice snack for them...


Isn't it a good thing we have a forum? Based on this site's info if I were setting up a reef I'd get a Heniochus:
(of course, if I were setting up a reef I'd heed your advice over anything I read on some site) 

http://www.themarinecenter.com/fish/butterflyfish/blackandwhiteheniochus/


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## trukgirl

Ok... so I THOUGHT I was doing my homework, lol!! Everything I've found online just says they are hard to keep and finicky eaters, it didn't sound like it was too bad... I even read some posts on another fish forum about it, weird. 

I've seen them for $35-60... I just looked up some of thos longfin bannerfish and they are $30-45... only a small price difference I wonder why its called the "poor man's idol"? Just because of how fragile they are?

It DOES look really similar!! It looks like it may get a couple in bigger than the idol as well?


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## trukgirl

Hi Kymmie! 

All the other sites I looked at also said to keep the Heniochus Butterfly in 100g+ ... that site says 55g+ lol


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## trukgirl

OK, picture time lol!

The yellow tail was the only one that wanted to come out and play... I found out the other one is a Fiji blue devil damsel, its really timid so far.

As you can see the protein skimmer was quite invasive and takes up a lot of room inside the tank, but it seems to be working well.


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## trukgirl

The other one finally came out...


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## aunt kymmie

I think your tank looks very nice. I want to hear from Wake on the Heniochus butterfly required tank size. If I EVER get to set up a S/W it's a fish I really would like to have. Moorish are some of my favorite fish and this would be an excellent substitute.


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## onefish2fish

no butterfly will work in a 10 gal.

i personally would keep it in atleast 100-150 gallons minimum as butterflies like grazing the rockwork and you figure space and gallons are lost from rock displacement anyways.


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## wake49

I think that she plans on upgrading to a 100 before she gets the butterfly. I'm with Onefish, I would also recommend at least 100 gallons with lots of rockwork.


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## trukgirl

Uhmmm yeah, last page I was talking about upgrading to a 125. LOL
I would never put a fish like that in a 10g.....

We originally planned on upgrading to a larger tank than our 55g if everything went ok w/the 10g, but my hubby is getting excited so I may get it sooner than I expected. I was expecting by the end of the year but it may be in the next cpl months.


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## trukgirl

aunt kymmie said:


> Moorish are some of my favorite fish and this would be an excellent substitute.


Mine too... I agree!!!!!!!!!!!


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## aunt kymmie

trukgirl said:


> We originally planned on upgrading to a larger tank than our 55g if everything went ok w/the 10g, but my hubby is getting excited so I may get it sooner than I expected. I was expecting by the end of the year but it may be in the next cpl months.


I hope you know how lucky you are to have a hubby that is getting excited about your fishkeeping hobby! When I talk about my next tank all I get are cons. No pros, only cons, from my other half. :-(


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## wake49

aunt kymmie said:


> I hope you know how lucky you are to have a hubby that is getting excited about your fishkeeping hobby! When I talk about my next tank all I get are cons. No pros, only cons, from my other half. :-(


I hear ya' Kym! I want to do a 75 gallon planted and everytime I mention it all I see is her glaze over and dollar signs in her eyes...lol


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## aunt kymmie

wake49 said:


> I hear ya' Kym! I want to do a 75 gallon planted and everytime I mention it all I see is her glaze over and dollar signs in her eyes...lol


Welll, getting up in the middle of the night to take care of the baby and jumping at diaper changes is going to go a loooong way towards acheiving your goal of having a planted tank!! With support like that how will she be able to deny you?? ;-)


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## trukgirl

Yes, I do definitely think I am lucky!!! 
It all started with a 1.5g betta several yrs ago... even though they are MY tanks (I 99.9% completely take care of and clean them) I think he really enjoys them, he has always wanted a big saltwater tank, I took the first step w/this 10g, I think we were both a little scared of doing a marine tank, but since I have been reading, researching, etc. all I need now is some real "experience"!


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## trukgirl

aunt kymmie said:


> Welll, getting up in the middle of the night to take care of the baby and jumping at diaper changes is going to go a loooong way towards acheiving your goal of having a planted tank!! With support like that how will she be able to deny you?? ;-)


Dude.... if MY hubby did that for me, I would let him get any tool he wanted!!!!!!!!(his hobby is woodworking) (I have an almost 4yr old boy and a 16m girl thats still in diapers and BFd LOL!) Mine NEVER helps at night....in fact sometimes I have to beg for help in the daytime lol.


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## aunt kymmie

trukgirl said:


> Dude.... if MY hubby did that for me, I would let him get any tool he wanted!!!!!!!!(his hobby is woodworking) (I have an almost 4yr old boy and a 16m girl thats still in diapers and BFd LOL!) Mine NEVER helps at night....in fact sometimes I have to beg for help in the daytime lol.


See, Wake?? You'll be dialing in a planted tank in no time!! 
(You already know you can get a tank ultra cheap on craigslist so you'll have lots of money left over for baby items!)


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## wake49

aunt kymmie said:


> Welll, getting up in the middle of the night to take care of the baby and jumping at diaper changes is going to go a loooong way towards acheiving your goal of having a planted tank!! With support like that how will she be able to deny you?? ;-)


lol. I will have to _consider _that...

trukgirl, marine tanks that are set up properly practically run themselves. Experience just helps to realize your boundaries...


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## trukgirl

Thanks :BIGgrin:

I am a stay at home mom, so I see my tanks all day long, almost every day. I really enjoy them so much.


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## trukgirl

Its official........We have Diatom!!

Can I scrape it off the glass and clean my filter, or should I leave it completely alone??
(I was planning on doing that today anyways, just did a PWC yesterday...)


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## wake49

Leave it alone for a few days, it should recede on its own. At that point you can scrape the glass. 

Now's a good time to start posting Calcium and Alkalinity readings...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trukgirl

Ok!
Isn't alkalinity the PH? If it is, I'm right on 8.2. I don't have a calcium test yet - will get 1.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dylan94

Alkalinity is not pH. A lot of people get mixed up because above 7 on the pH scale is called basic or alkaline. Alkalinity refers to the general hardness of the water (gH). Calcium levels (kH) are included in this. So you could have 14 dgH and 4 dkH. The d stands for degrees. If you get a test kit that measures in ppm, please note that 17.9 ppm is equal to 1 degree. I hope this information helps 

Also, I think your 8.2 is good, but what do I know? 

Alsooooo, I thought when you have a diatom bloom you are supposed to add the cuc. I figured it would be a good time to add some of the cuc since the snails and crabs and shrimp, etc, would have algae to eat. I'm not telling you, tukgirl, to go and get a cuc, because again I am not sure about this, a more experienced member can really help you with this.

Good luck


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## trukgirl

Thanks 
What is cuc?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GradyBaby16

CUC = Clean Up Crew 

this helps and explains CUC

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/member-submitted-articles/introduction-salt-water-19051/


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## trukgirl

Ok, I know what a clean up crew is, and is for. I just didn't know what the abbreviation is.


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## trukgirl

dylan94 said:


> Alkalinity refers to the general hardness of the water (gH). Calcium levels (kH) are included in this.


DUH I'm such an airhead lol. I've been testing for this in my 55g. :roll:

I was on the couch with both kids climbing on me last night LOL!!!


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## trukgirl

I believe the Diatom hit its peak last night... it is starting to recede now...

Still have to get a new gH/kH test.


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## trukgirl

Oh, and I am going back and forth with the Hubby between a 90g on craigslist (which I would rather have) or converting our 55g. 

I found a 20g tall tank on craigslist that someone made into a sump and has a wall built in... for $25. Going to pick that up tonight. (I can use it on either tank)


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## wake49

Very good. I would go with the 90. Is it reef-ready?


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## trukgirl

Yeah, it is reef ready, but the guy won't come down on his price any. $375 and all it comes with is the stand, some chemicals, and a broken protein skimmer.

I found a 65g that would actually fit really well in our living room and I could move the loveseat back over a foot (to see the tv better lol) The guy wants $150 for it, it has hood/light, and an enclosed stand. We have a wire stand on our 55g so we would have to build a new stand for it anyways. Good hard oak to make it would be abt $100+.

I would rather have the 90g but for budget we may have to go with the 65g.
So no angels I guess! But have to go with what the $$ dictates, KWIM??

The 65g is not reef ready but I have been looking at DIY overflows, and sumps... hubby and I are handy, we can do it!


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## wake49

Check out the Dwarf Angels. They could definitely fit in a 65 gallon.


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## GradyBaby16

yah i heard one could fit in 24 at the least but 30 to be safe minimum that is


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## trukgirl

Oh, awesome! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trukgirl

Just picked up the 20g tall tank to use for my sump. Its perfect! Got 2 plates already siliconed in. One step closer!

I am going to pick up the 65g tomorrow around 7pm!


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## trukgirl

Here is the tank I am picking up tomorrow: http://stlouis.craigslist.org/hsh/1732702025.html

And here is the 20g tank I just picked up for my sump! Yes I have a little cleanup to do but no big deal for $25!
(took these pics real fast w/the webcam lol)


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## dylan94

Wow! You are upgrading fast! At least the damsels will have more room to swim around  Flame angels are gorgeous! You are so lucky you can have a big tank like that!


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## trukgirl

Well, it may take a few more weeks before I will be ready to actually set it up. Definitely going to PAINT the back of this tank before its set up. I am about SICK of the dumb backgrounds that don't like to stay on. I still have to get a protein skimmer and decide/plan how exactly we are going to use and pipe the sump. I may just end up keeping the damsels in the 10g. Going to keep it for sure for a hospital/quarantine tank.

It helps that hubby is on board with going for the big marine tank 

I am however a little upset I have to get rid of all my plants and my knifey. I am attached to him.  But we only have room in the living room for one tank or the other, and neither of us want to put a large tank in any other room. That is the only thing that's really going to suck.


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## trukgirl

Well... the process has begun... I have the 55g, plants, and fish on Craigslist.
Both  and :/ about it...


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## trukgirl

Just got home from picking up the 65G!

Should I start a new thread for it????


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## bearwithfish

yeah do a step by step i wanna watch this one grow !!!!!!!!!!!!!! i so excited for you ....


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## trukgirl

Oooh thanks!! I shall go start it up!


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