# HELP!! MAGNESIUM wont come up!!!



## turk86 (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi all! I have a 120gallon reef with a 40gal refugium. I am using a product called magnesion-p from brightwell aquatics. I am using four teaspoons a day wich is the maximum rate. My count is 1200 and won't get any higher. Calcium is 450 and DKH is 8.6. Help I so not know what else to do!!!!:shock:


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## Kellsindell (Sep 15, 2008)

Welcome to the forum and it isn't too terribly low. when was your last waterchange and what type of salt are you using? Also, it takes a lot of magnesium to bring up magnesium. It may take a while doing it that way.


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## turk86 (Apr 7, 2009)

Last water change was a week ago. I did a major water change 60 Gallons. My magnisium was up at 1320 ppm. It is slowly decreasing. The tank has been up for a little over 2 years. I have argonite in the refugium about four inches deep. The skimmer is also in the refugium. I have quite a bit of culpera and chaetmorpha growing in the refugium. There are many snail and hermits and about 200 lbs of live rock. Ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate steadily runs between 30 and 40. All seems well except the magniesium steadily falling. there are also above the main tank 2 250watt 20k halides, 2 65 watt blue actinic and 2 65 watt 50/50 all new. Refugium has two 21 inch plain flouresecents ove it.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

How long does it take for the magnesium to fall? The fact that your buffering ions are dropping and need regular dosage is not a bad thing, it is a normal thing. The quality of your skimmer and the amount of live stock will determine how rapidy magesium and calcium need replenishing. In your system the magnesium is not all that low to begin with, and DKH and calcium are holding steady, so I see nothing wrong with your routine.


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## turk86 (Apr 7, 2009)

I add magnesium 4 teaspoons daily. It will be about 5ppm lower by the next day. The brand of salt i use is tropic marin pro reef salt mixed to 35 ppt or 1.026 specific gravity.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I don't see 5ppm per day being an abnormal drop. This amounts to a change of 2% per week. Compare this to the average aquarium and calcium supplementation. Calcium levels can easily drop from 420ppm to 320ppm in a single week if not dosed, which is nearly a 25% drop.

Again, this all sounds normal. OF2F.... thoughts? Kells?


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## turk86 (Apr 7, 2009)

Pasfur.
The calcium is not the problem, It maintains 450. The main problem is the magnesium wich is steadily dropping with me adding four teasppons of magnesium powder daily. This is the maximum recomended dosage! It was at 1320 two weeks ago. This morning it is at 1180 ppm. I add four teaspoons daily. No one at the Local Marine Aquarium shops here in San Diego, CA seems to know what might be happing.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I still don't see anything unusual here. This is simple chemistry. Your fish release organic acids directly into the water. These acids are either removed by your protein skimmer, or biologically processed by the live rock. In this case, the acids interact with the buffer system, removing buffering ions. Magnesium is one of these ions. 

The real question here is not why magnesium is falling. The question is why magnesium is falling at a pace that does not maintain the normal calcium to magnesium ratios found in natural seawater. I can only assume that you are adding a calcium supplement at the needed dosage, but are fixed on this recommendation for magnesium, which has been shown to not be enough to replenish the depletion in your particular system. Further increases to your magnesium additions are needed, beyond the recommended maximum dose.

By the way, 2 thoughts occur to me on this. First, I bet you have amazing coraline algae growth. Second, there is no such thing as a magnesium problem that does not involve calcium.-)


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Are you dosing kalkwasser?


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

i have not seen anything mentioned about corals and other livestock besides snails, hermits and some macro algae. you do mention its a reef but how stocked are you? a tank of this size packed with corals will eat up the main three (ca, mag, alk) in no time. however as pasfur mentioned your not seeing a decrease in calcium. hes talking calcium becuase it works with mag, alk and even pH. 

my best guess would be that the decrease your seeing is natural but the initial levels have yet to be brought up. bumping mag up to exceptable range can take awhile. i suggest diluting the powder in RO/DI water prior to adding it to the tank. if this continues to happen maybe you should give another product a try? im pretty sure ive heard brightwell being a good product ( no personal experience ) but then again is there chance it could be bad? im not sure, atleast your using some top quality salt.


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## Kellsindell (Sep 15, 2008)

How are you dosing this? I've heard, from a reputable aquarist, but i can't find the ref. so i won't put a name, that if you put too much of Mg, say epson salt, it could cause the ions in the tank to crash. That's why it's important to use 2 diff types of Mg, but given the 5ppm drop, I'd say it's consumption from the life in the tank. I agree with Pasfur, though your Ca isn't dropping, very unusual, your Mg is steadily.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Ok, so I've been reading for the last hour trying to get my arms around this. The only place I know to turn when looking for an answer to an aquarium related chemistry question is Randy Holmes Farley. If anyone wants to join my hunt, here is the link of articles i'm reading:
Search ReefKeeping.com

Some of these are Randy Holmes Farley, others are not. Given that I am readying the RHF articles, perhaps someone else will start with Ron Shimek. 

For the record, so far the only thing i've learned is that dripping Kalk can lower magnesium in relation to calcium. Why? Because calcification increases, which increases magnesium demand. So, again I ask, are your dripping Kalk?


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## turk86 (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi All, I finally got my Magnesium up. I began using Tropic Marin Magnesium at the Max Dossage and within a week My MG is now at 1350. I think the Brightwell Aquatics that I was using before was a waste of Money. Tropic Marin Mg was the way to go. I do dose weekly with CA. It maintains 450. And yes I do have excellant coraline everywere. I also have many soft and stony corals. Thanks for all of the help. Different brands do make a difference. Thanks ALL!!!!!

Also I do not drip kalk. I use one and half tablspoons of powder weekly.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

adding powder directly to the tank is going to lead to unstable results. i suggest pre-diluting in some RO/DI water.


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## turk86 (Apr 7, 2009)

I am sorry onefish2, I do dillute it into one cup of RODI water and then add it to the sump. I also dilute the Mg as well before adding.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

no need to appologize, i just wanted to make sure you were aware as well as anyone following along reading this thread.


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## conger (Feb 2, 2008)

sorry to join the party late! Just stumbled across this thread. For what it's worth, to others who might come along and read, Kent Marine's Tech-M magnesium supplement has worked great for me, that's another option for a quality product/brand.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Glad this is solved. I am still confused as to why magnesium was being depleted at a rate that far exceeded calcium removal. Perhaps the tests results were not showing the calcium utilized due to daily calcium replacement. 

The lessen here is that every system has different needs. It is critical to test your water and learn what levels of replacement are necessary, rather than just follow the directions on the bottle.-)


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