# Brand New 50g Tank - Setup & More



## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Oceanic 50g Tank
Florescent light
Neim Professional II Filter System
Jaeger Heater
Stand
(Photo to come)

Not yet stocked.

I am going to cycle this tank first before I add fish. 

Please feel free to offer advise.

I have just washed my gravel. There are millions of particles of little tiny blue micro pebbles that have sifted through my strainer. Should these go in the tank or the garbage?

Big Fish


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

Put them in the garbage, the little micro gravel that is. what wattage and kelven is your light? how many watts is the heater? and im assuming you know how to do a fishless cycle?


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Micro Gravel in the Garbage: Check

How many Watts for the heater: 150W good for 40-60g tank- hopefully the correct purchase - Check
- the lfs guy recommended it as the correct size

The Florescent Tude: " Replace with 55W 2G11 Lamp" that is all it says. This is a stock lamp that came with tank

I googled the info above, here is what I got:
4100 Kelvin *55 Watt* 4 Pin *2G11* Base Compact *Fluorescent* Light Bulbs 

Life Hours: 12,000
Warranty: 15 month
Color Rendering: 81

Fishless Cycle: Haven't got a clue! That is why I am here, on this wonderful forum! 

Stage One of Setup:

What I have accomplished so far (note, I am in no rush here, I want to get this right):

a) Setup the aquarium in the desired spot
b) wiped the dust off the tank, outside with Windex, inside with just plain water
c) setup the filter, rinsed out the media etc., assembled all tubes and connections and set them up in the tank
d) installed the heater 
e) washed the gravel I have and put it in the bottom of the tank. I am short and will by more this week.
f) RAN HERE to the forum to get guidance....  LOL


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Are you intending to have live plants? If yes, planting the tank first will allow you to put fish in and not bother with any cycling. I personally never do fishless cycling because it is bothersome and wastes time (2 to 8 weeks to establish the bacteria and mature the tank). I also plant the tank first, then add the fish a few at a time. Seeding the tank with bacteria either from an established tank or a biological supplement helps. The plants handle the ammonia and nitrite, along wth the bacteria added, and there is no "new tank syndrome" to worry about and the fish are fine. Can explain further if this is your decision.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

OH YES. I most certainly plan to use live plants. I like the look. Since this is a huge tank, I think it needs live plants. It is part of a natural eco-system look I like.

I was told that the Professional II filter I have also allows you to start adding first in 7 days. My strategy is:

a) Move plants from my 10g aquarium to the new 50g tank.
b) Move gravel from the bottom from the 10g to the 50g until eventually, I am running one tank with all the stuff in it from the 10g.
c) Add different and new plants to the mix to "mix it up".

I also like bubbles, so I plan on running some tubes under the gravel so I can add a "bubble toy" or two in the mix.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> OH YES. I most certainly plan to use live plants. I like the look. Since this is a huge tank, I think it needs live plants. It is part of a natural eco-system look I like.
> 
> I was told that the Professional II filter I have also allows you to start adding first in 7 days. My strategy is:
> 
> ...


Forget the bubbles in a planted tank. Plants need CO2 which they will get from the fish and certain biological actions (minimal), and the last thing you want is to be driving off the CO2 which is what any bubbling device or surface agitation does.

If everything in the 10g is going into the 50g, my advice is to buy the additional plants you want first. Set up the 50g with the new gravel, new plants, and the filter and heater working; I usually let this run overnight to ensure everything's OK, and no leaks. Then move the gravel [if you want to gently rinse it to remove some of the detrius, do it in tank water as tap water will kill the bacteria] and plants, then add the fish. If the tank is reasonably heavily planted, the plants will use the ammonia produced by the fish from the start. The bacteria from the old gravel and plant leaves is a secondary cycling tool. The tank will by immediately "cycled" and that's it.

Eheim Professionel II filters are good filters; I have one on my 70g and one on my 90g, have had them for 12 years, no problems.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Filter:

Yes, that is what I have heard, the EPII is suppose to be great. He sold me on it as I got a great price and the specs on it were top drawer. 50g is a lot of tank. I wanted something that was dependable and required little maintenance.

Plants:

OK, what do you suggest? I am happy to start buying plants this week. I need more gravel so a trip to the lfs is in the works.

And, speaking of plants, what is the right depth of gravel to adequately support plant roots? Is there a rule of thumb? I want some dense plants that the fish can't get into. I notice the fry in my 10g are desperately hiding in the plants to survive. I would like to give them a fighting chance.

Tiny Bubbles, in the Water...:

Damn, bubbles are OUT!  What do you mean by surface agitation. The EPII has a waterfall effect when it squirts the water back into the tank. Is this considered surface agitation as well? It sits close to the tank surface and lies horizontal to the water. From the diagram in the instruction book, it looks like the water slighty fountains out onto the water surface. I can adust this effect to point it down. Is there an optimum or does it really matter?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Filter:
> 
> Yes, that is what I have heard, the EPII is suppose to be great. He sold me on it as I got a great price and the specs on it were top drawer. 50g is a lot of tank. I wanted something that was dependable and required little maintenance.
> 
> ...


First the filter, assuming it is similar to my Eheim filters (but not so old;-)) it should have a spray bar, a tube with small holes along one side. This tube should be along the end wall of the tank, just *below* the water surface, and at the opposite end of the outlet tube to the filter. The idea is to create a flow throughout the tank from the top at one end to the opposite end near the bottom (the outflow to the filter should be 4-5 inches above the substrate at that point). Direct the line of holes on the spraybar down along the end wall, not across the surface nor towards the centre of the tank. There will be a minimal amount of rippling at the surface.

The reason for this is because in a planted tank, the less surface disturbance the better because disturbance of the surface speeds up the natural gas exchange occurring there; CO2 is expelled and oxygen is brought into the tank. Because plants need CO2 (and produce oxygen themselves, far more than otherwise occurs) you want to minimize any loss. Second reason for low water flow throughout the tank is due to the plants uptake of nutrients. Rooted plants do this mainly through the root systems in the substrate, but aquatic plants can also take in nutrients through the leaves; and plants with minimal root systems do this more. If the current is too much, the water carrying the nutrients gets past the leaves too fast. The current should never be sufficient to make the plants "sway" (except for those very close to the spraybar). Many of the rooted aquarium plants either come from marshes and quiet streams or are bog plants in nature, spending half the year emersed (when they flower) and half the year submersed during the flood season; there is very minimal water movement. This also suits many of the usual fish that we keep in planted aquaria.

The reason for the instruction to have the spraybar above the water is that in non-planted tanks people generally have larger fish, and without plants oxygen is only going to come into the water from the air. The method they describe is the most efficient for that purpose. But as the plants provide most of the oxygen in a planted aquarium, and the fish are smaller, surface exchange of gases isn't critical from the perspective of getting oxygen, but it is for the loss of CO2 that can occur.

As for the depth of the substrate, it should be sufficient to allow the plants to root and carry out their biological activity. Rooted plants, by which I mean those with obvious extensive root systems from which stems and leaves arise, need room in the substrate not only to spread out to anchor the plant but to allow for adequate exchange of nutrients and gases. Plants expel oxygen through their roots, and this oxygen feeds the aerobic bacteria that work on the detrius brought down into the substrate by the natural flow of water and convert it to nutrients that the plants can use. There is also anaerobic bacteria in the substrate, producing nitrogen that the plant roots need. You want a good "bed" for all this activity. Also, some plants have very extensive root systems, plants like the swords (Echinodorus) and crypts (Cryptocoryne). These plants are super workers in the aquarium with respect to stable water quality.

The best substrate is small-grain gravel that is a dark or natural colour, black/gray/buff sort of thing; the colour just looks more natural and shows off the plants better, and the grain size is imortant for the roots and bacteria actions explained above. I aim for 3-4 inches of substrate, less in the front and more towards the back. Most of the larger plants with more extensive root systems will be placed along the back and sides, so the gravel should be deepest there. Along the front, the smaller "groundcover" type plants have much smaller root systems, so 2 inches can suffice, but I usually have closer to 3 inches. If you have bottom feeders like loaches and corys, some open areas of gravel can be feeding areas and allows better observation of these fish's feeding. You can slope the gravel towards the back, or use rocks to create terraces, a nice effect; wood can also be used for this. Just don't have anything dead centre--it immediately looks artificial; offset any wood, rocks, terraces, and large plants.

The type of plants is up to you depending upon the look you're after; what do you have in the 10g now? As a general guide, I would suggest rooted plants being the basic plants, because they tend to stay as you plant them; they will grow larger, but require very little maintenance and it is easier to aquascape the look you want. Stem plants grow faster, therefore requiring more light and nutrients, and regular pruning and trimming to prevent them covering the surface and blocking out light from the other plants. Some stem plants are nice in corners or along the sides; you can see this effect from the Brazilian Pennywort growing in the corners and along the rear wall of my current 115g Amazonian riverscape tank. Stem plants can work well to fill in these "gaps" betwen the larger rooted swords, and as they are fast growing the effect is not static but changes and by trimming and pruning you can keep it interesting.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Wonderful! I saw this 10 minutes AFTER you posted and I cut the plastic strip and put the filter valves in... the WRONG SPOT!!! 
ROTFL

Figures!!! :roll:

OK, I will move the IN (water returning to the tank) tube to the other side. Right now, it is in the middle and horizontal to the water. I have one more elbow so I will have to configure it differently, as you suggest. This really is some honking-Filter!

Is there any way to adjust the water flow? This puppy CRANKS water!! I have the tank half full right now to get it started, to fill the bottom and to plant. I will finish filling the tank when I get closer to finishing the look I want. No doubt, this will be the wrong approach as well! :lol:

My Tank measures 30L x 18W x 20H". I like your suggestion about filling the sides and leaving the center less sparse! I agree completely. Is there a site where I can look at plants, that you know of? I would like a variety of types to go in that compliment each other and are the most "productive" for the bio-system.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The other nice thing about have the flow from one side to the other along the length is that with shoaling fish like tetras, rasbora, whatever, they will often face into the flow and this keps them sideways to the front, better viewing and more natural appearance, as if swimming along the "stream." I don't have flow control on my old Eheims, but I believe the new models out now do, or so someone said. Might have been Twistersmom who has Eheims...you could PM her. If there isn't, what I do is experiment with the spraybar by directing the holes towards the glass, and turning it very slightly and observing the flow. It is possible to get it to the point where the glass is breaking the flow sufficient to cause less current. If you have too much the fish will be constantly swimming against it, and to me that looks weird. Besides it is unnatural for the fish which mainly come from quiet streams and lagoons, flooded forest, etc.

Nice thing about Eheim is that you can buy tubing for the filter if you need longer/more. Can't do that with my new Rena. 

Here's a link to the plant species info and photos index page from Aquatic Plant Centre:
Plant Finder - Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants

There's also info on species here:
Natural Aquariums - Guide to Planted Aquariums, Aquatic Plants, & Freshwater Invertebrates

And of course the Aquatic Gardners site:
Aquatic Gardeners Association

And Aqua Botanic has good information on planted tanks:
Aqua Botanic Aquarium Plants Sales and Library

Most of these will also have articles and photos on layouts for suggestions. With plants as with fish, one has more success selecting plants that share preferences for water parameters and especially light intensity. Depending upon the look you want, going mainly with rooted plants will result in an aquascape that basically remains as you plant it; plants obviously grow and fill in, but there is not the constant trimming and pruing and replanting that you have with faster-growing stem plants.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Byron, I have been out of town.

Back to the tank. Getting some plants today. I have placed the outflow bar as you suggest. Wow. Lots of current. Now, the tank is half full, so it is exaggerated. I will see how this goes after I get the plants in. I will start stocking fish next week. Thanks for the links above. Greatly appreciated. I have picked my opening list of plants from your links.

I am going to get a few of these today to start:

_Egeria najas_ 
Cryptocoryne wendtii 
Echinodorus sp red 

Maybe one or two more depending on what catches my eye.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Byron, I have been out of town.
> 
> Back to the tank. Getting some plants today. I have placed the outflow bar as you suggest. Wow. Lots of current. Now, the tank is half full, so it is exaggerated. I will see how this goes after I get the plants in. I will start stocking fish next week. Thanks for the links above. Greatly appreciated. I have picked my opening list of plants from your links.
> 
> ...


I would also get a few green swords, they are heavy feeders and thus good water purifiers. They are not particularly sensitive especially in newer tanks (your crypts may melt, if so just leave them, new leaves will eventually emerge from the roots).

The Eheim filter probably has an adjuster for the flow; keep it low in a planted tank. Or direct the flow against and slightly down the glass to diminish its strength. Excessive water movement is detrimental in a planted aquarium. Diana Walstad cites scientific studies on this in her marvellous book _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ and shows that nutrient uptake by many plants is severely restricted in excessive water flows--and excessive is not very much for some of them. Also the CO2 issue.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Byron,

I have returned from the lfs with..... NADA.

I spoke to a knowledgable chap there and we started talking about acqua-scaping. In my minds eye, I have an idea of what I want to look at. I saw a variety or rocks, driftwood etc. and my brain overloaded.

I currently have blue substrate in my 10g. I like the look of it but in the 50g, I prefer a more natural substrate look. This opened a whole new window of options (not to mention the hole in my wallet it is going to create). There is a gravel he showed me that was more beneficial from a nutrient perspective. $29 per bag. He also suggested some filler sand to build up the bottom before pouring on the more expensive stuff.

I like a look of some stone and driftwood in the tank and hope to have some plants growing off the driftwood. So, I thought this was going to be simple. Obviously, it is not going to be as simple as I thought and now I am going to have to draw out a look and then go back and buy the stuff.

I will post a drawing of a look I like and then we can discuss it. I don't like tanks that look crammed with plants. I like a more artistic look, but I want it functional.

This also opens up a whole new slew of questions. I live near the Lake (Ontario). There are tons of rocks and driftwood lying around. How do you insure this stuff is not contaminated? Some sites say BOIL rocks, this site warns against it as they explode. 

The price of driftwood is about $4 a lb. Rocks are about $3 a lb. I think landscaping the 50g could run $200. Is it worth taking advantage of this natural stuff near the shoreline of the lake to avoid some of this expense?


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Regarding the water filter, I asked at the lfs if I could adjust the water flow and the answer was... NO.

I currently have the tubs facing 45 degrees against the glass and there is a definite "current" created by this. I guess I have to turn it more into the glass. Not sure how I am going to win this battle. You can't drop the water in from the top and you have to watch the current! LOL OY VAY!!!

I may raise LIZARDS instead......:lol:


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Byron,
> 
> I have returned from the lfs with..... NADA.
> 
> ...


Lots of stuff here, so let's go, starting with the last item.

Rocks from the natural world I would be more willing to try, especially if underwater. The only issue is, are they calcareous. Limestone, marble, lava rock...these will release mineral (calcium) into the water slowly but consistently and raise the hardness and pH above what comes out of the tap. This is fine with rift lake cichlids, and usually livebearers; but not in a planted tank. The acid test should determine if the rock is calcareous. Some use vinegar, but it is too weak an acid (after all, it is intended for human consumption); a better option is the Bottle #1 of the API nitrate test kit, which is an acid [think I have this right...]. If a drop or two fizzes or bubbles, the rock is calcareous.

Wood from the wild is more risky, as wood can absorb any number of contaminants and toxins. Boiling will deal with insects, parasites, etc., but not toxins that may have been absorbed over time. Wood for an aquarium must be hardwood (soft woods quickly rot and are toxic fast). Expensive they may be, but the hardwoods sold by aquarium stores are usually safer. If you want a "natural" look, make sure the rock or wood all matches.

The gravel is up to you, it is your tank. Personally, I would avoid any colours and go with natural and dark. This will create the "natural" look you are aiming for. Darker is always better, both for the fish (they come from dark waters) and to show off the colours of plants and fsh. Buying natural gravel in bulk will be much less expensive than bags of special this or that. Some landscaping and stone places have small-grain gravel; certainly cheaper. Just make sure it is inert.

The nutrient-enriched substrates are fine, but (a) much mor expensive, (b) not necessary. Plant root fertilizer tabs and sticks are available, I use the sticks next to my largest swords, and they are cheaper and easy to remove should I want to. No way to remove an enriched substrate except tear the tank apart. There is another thread here, I have commented and so have others, about not using enriched substrates. No real harm, just unnecessary expense.

I would recommend smallest-grain gravel, 1-3mm grain size; recognized plant gurus like Karen Randall, Diana Walstad, Peter Hiscock...all recommend this. They also suggest an underlying layer of the nutrients or soil; as I said above, I do not go this far, as the fertilizer sticks work well.

Good idea to plan out beforehand. Have a look at aquascapes in the photos here, online or in books and fish magazines. There are biotope tanks that (exactly) replicate a specific stream from SA or SE Asia; very restrictive although interesting. I like the geographic aquascape, where all the plants and fish come from the same geographic area; this is what i have with my three tanks. There is an advantage to this--the water parameters for the fish and plants will more likely be similar, and that means fewer issues over compatibility and more success with the health of the inhabitants. But it is also possible to stretch this further across continents, provided one stays with similar requirements respecting water parameters.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Byron,

How do you feel about sand as a filler? Is it a good idea?

Or, is the small grain gravel you mention the better choice. And, will the gravel people understand "inert".


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Byron,
> 
> How do you feel about sand as a filler? Is it a good idea?
> 
> Or, is the small grain gravel you mention the better choice. And, will the gravel people understand "inert".


I have never bothered with sand as a substrate. I know many here do, and like it, and have no problems or so they say. There are issues with sand that one has to deal wth, not impossible, just different. Read a thread earlier today about sand getting drawn into the filters, which can break the impellers and burn them out... I prefer gravel.

And I have still not found one plant authority who recommends sand over small-grain gravel. I can't help but think there must be a reason.

If you go to the landscape/stone place for gravel, they probably won't unless they can tell you what rock it is crushed from. Common gravel is limestone, very bad, but that is the common gravel you use in making patios and such. Granite rock is fine, or quartz, and I believe these are more likely to be used for the small gravels. Last week i got a pail of what they called "birdseye" gravel from a landscape place, I'm thinking of using it when i set up my amphibian or mudskipper tanks. Not an issue in these tanks, but it seems to be good gravel though not as small grain as i would want in my aquaria.

The "acid" test would work; drop a few drops of a good acid on some of the gravel and if it fizzes or foams it is calcareous. Vinegar is often suggested, but it is a weak acid; elsewhere i read that the Nitrate test kit contains an acid regeant, I think in Bottle #1 of the API kit, but I'm going from memory.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Here is a sketch of what I am thinking about. I have numbered the 5 plants I would like to place as 1 through 5.

1. Best recommendation for a tall leafy plant
2. I would like a small, broad, redish plant
3. Short grassy looking plant
4. tall thin grassy looking plant
5. Broad, bushy, leafy plant

The brown piles you see are larger stones, maybe granite and slate.

I hope to find either a nice piece of driftwood or a large shapely rock for the center piece and I hope to get some moss growing on it or some plant that can hang from it.

What do you think?


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

*Raw 50g Tank*

Here is a picture of my 50g tank. Note, I started with Blue gravel but I am going to remove it.

The tank is half full so I can work in it.

Note, the Water IN tube on the left and the Water OUT on the right. The heater is obscured by the wet glass, it is right next to the Water OUT tube.

I am hoping the plants can hide, to some degree, the tubing behind the tank and the filter tubes and heater in the tank.

Question, can I shorten the tubes in the tank? If I build up the gravel in the corners, it will be higher than what the filter system currently is configured as. Is there a science to how deep the water OUT is or does it really matter?

Also, can I put a nylon panty hose filter over the intake valve to stop crude, snails etc from being sucked in?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Here is a picture of my 50g tank. Note, I started with Blue gravel but I am going to remove it.
> 
> The tank is half full so I can work in it.
> 
> ...


I would not block the filter intake (from the tank to the filter). It is intended to remove crud and particulate matter. I know snails are a pest, they get in my filters, I don't care and they do no harm.

With canister filters the loweswt point of the intake to the filter should be approximately 4 inches above the substrate at that point. The outflow from the filter is best near the top of the tank, just below the water surface, at the opposite end as you have it.

Plants, wood (set as "standing tree trtunks" for instance) and rock can be used to "hide' equipment in the tank. A background on the outside of the rear wall is good to not only hide external stuff but add focus by directing your view into the tank and not behind it, and I believe the fish feel more comfortable with something 'solid" behind; they feel less vulnerable. Plain black works wonders to accent the colour of plants and fish. I have visual "scenes" on my largest tanks but they are very pale, not bright things, and actually disappear. One of them is just a wall of stone, and it is not surprising that some of the fish act as if they'd like to get into the crevices.

On the previous post, wow...you're qute the artist. I've never managed such detail, I just get chunks of wood/rock, plants, and away I go. This is going to be a nice aquarium. Sometimes it is easier to aquascape without water; wood and rocks, building up terraces, etc. Some even suggest planting without water, but I like to have water in when I put plants in so they have support.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks for the compiment. I was a little embarrassed with the art as I only spent about 15-20 minutes on it. I use Illustrator and Photoshop every day. I thought a little 3-D model of what I am thinking would give you what I am visualizing and perhaps, be used as a reference to other forum users thinking the same thing.

I stumbled onto Acquascapes by accident and I am just floored at how beautiful some people make their acquariums. Not all looks are for me. I like some space in the middle and I don't like the tank over grown with plants. The idea of making it look like a landscape in a tank is pretty cool. 

I am going to need help with picking the plants. When I first asked about plants, I was simply going to put them in near the corners and be done with it. Now, I have to pick plants that will do the job and look good. That is why I numbered them. Hopefully, you can help with the plant types.

I was shocked when I went into Big Als and looked at some plants. Some were $40!!!!!!! What the hey is that!? Anyway, I am going to seriously start buying stuff this weekend.

I picked up some LAKE rock today. Looks like slate at a glance. I brought my sledge hammer along but didn't swing it yet. I may break some of them up to try to get a shape I like. I will test it tomorrow after I get a chance to pour some boiling water on them. The Ammonia bottle #2 has the CORROSIVE HAND on it. I assume this is the one to use to test the rocks?


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

*Possible Plant Configuration*

How do these plants sound to stock the 50g?

1. *APONOGETON CRISPUS or ECHINODORUS MARTII*
2. *LUDWIGIA REPENS or LUDWIGIA PALUSTRIS*
3. *LILAEOPSIS BRASILIENSIS*
4. *BLYXA AUBERTII*
5. *ANUBIAS BARTERI VAR. BARTERI*


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Thanks for the compiment. I was a little embarrassed with the art as I only spent about 15-20 minutes on it. I use Illustrator and Photoshop every day. I thought a little 3-D model of what I am thinking would give you what I am visualizing and perhaps, be used as a reference to other forum users thinking the same thing.
> 
> I stumbled onto Acquascapes by accident and I am just floored at how beautiful some people make their acquariums. Not all looks are for me. I like some space in the middle and I don't like the tank over grown with plants. The idea of making it look like a landscape in a tank is pretty cool.
> 
> ...


The regeant that contains acid (forgotten the specific name of acid) is the one. If it is slate, that's OK once you clean it (the boiling water poured over, and using a scrub brush will work to clean it.

No need to spend $40 on a plant. The (former) Big Al's in Vancouver had Tropica plants (the potted ones from Tropica in Denmark) at $9 each, and at another local store they are $18 each; other brand/types are usually $5 to $7 so shop around. I'll comment on plants in my reply to the next post.

Byron.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> How do these plants sound to stock the 50g?
> 
> 1. *APONOGETON CRISPUS or ECHINODORUS MARTII*
> 2. *LUDWIGIA REPENS or LUDWIGIA PALUSTRIS*
> ...


Aponogeton are nice plants similar in appearance to some of the swords; the thing with A is that they need a resting period of 3-4 months when the leaves will all die off. Swords remain permanently and for years.

Ludwigia is a stem plant and they (stem plants) grow fast and require regular trimming/pruning to keep them decent. All stem plants are good to fill in spaces along the back, but they do not remain the same so it is a constant changing landscape. Rooted plants tend to remain as they are, though growing larger to their maximum, but when you plant them you kow the look that will likely remain. 

Anubias is a slow grower, but a nice plant for a corner as it is low light. Blyxa is a plant I have never had, so can't comment; looking it up, it seems it would be a useful one in aquascaping that certain spot.

B.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Bryon,

I managed to pick up some dwarf grass and a plant whose name escapes me. I will update this later (sitting in the car waiting for someone). The aquascape is done. I am not 100% happy with it but I still like it. I picked up some fine sand and that was a disaster. I have been soaking it for 3 days now and there are still floaters. I was going to use the sand in the middle of the tank but it is next to impossible to stop it from floating. So, I have decided not to use it right now. Maybe a month of soaking will make it stop floating.

One thing I was frustrated with in setting up the tank according to my sketch is that the tank filled up much faster than I anticipated and I am going to have to cut back on the plants. I have 4 tuffs of dwarf grass in place plus two of the other plant and it already looks crowded and these plants are net dense! So, maybe one more plant that is a hard worker on the oxygen and CO2 cycle and that will be it. I am disappointed with the plants experience. I really like the driftwood I found. It has some character and my rocks look great. I am very pleased with both of these.

I picked up some new fish as well. 8 Neon Tetras! The more I looked at them, the more I liked them. So, I splurged. I also purchased 4 new Platy. I really like this fish. These are yellow in appearance and add colour. They are real characters too! They have discovered the out valve for the water and are making a game of swimming into the current between the tube and the glass. Who knew fish had personalities.

I am surprised to see how difficult it is to get the plants I want. On the surface, it appears Big Als is very well stocked, but they are stocked with nothing I want. Patience, I guess. You mentioned you use a fertilizer for you plants. What is the brand you use. I will have to buy some.

IMPORTANT QUESTION: How fast can I add my fish into the 50g tank. I want to put them all in right away! 

Also, I will post pictures as soon as I get a chance.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Bryon,
> 
> I managed to pick up some dwarf grass and a plant whose name escapes me. I will update this later (sitting in the car waiting for someone). The aquascape is done. I am not 100% happy with it but I still like it. I picked up some fine sand and that was a disaster. I have been soaking it for 3 days now and there are still floaters. I was going to use the sand in the middle of the tank but it is next to impossible to stop it from floating. So, I have decided not to use it right now. Maybe a month of soaking will make it stop floating.
> 
> ...


When using new (store-bought) plants, a new tank never looks good, to me anyway. I know this, but still everytime I have planted a new setup I think what a disaster. But, the plants will grow, existing leaves will usually die off so don't worry when you see dying leaves, as long as new growth is visible down at the crown (with rooted plants). Also, some plants do not always do well with certain other plants. That is one of the challanges of mixing species. Some will be more difficult, and may not even grow for you, as for me. I don't know what the "dwarf grass" may be, but if it is Hairgrass, others here have said that is very difficult to grow. Expect some plants to do well and some maybe not.

The other thing is to leave them all; some may not make it, and even if they do, you can always thin the plants later after several weeks when they start growing and you get a better image of what it will look like. One of the nice things about aquarium plants, unlike some land plants, is that they can be moved around provided it is not too much moving (crypts are one plant that does not take kindly to being disturbed). I could show you photos of my former 90g taken the first week and then after 3-4 months and you wouldn't believe it was the same tank. But some of those first plants, ugly and scraggly as they were at first, came out by then and went into the 70g.

With all the plants you have, you can put the 8 neons and 4 platys in the tank. I would not buy more fish yet. Make sure the plants are settling in and growing. And for liquid fertilizer I highly recommend Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium. There are several different things in the Flourish line, so make sure it is this one. It is all you need, it has all the essential nutrients and in the correct porportions. Use it once a week, at the amount on the label, after the partial water change. For the first couple of weeks, I would use it twice a week, once after the pwc and again 3-4 days later. Then go to once a week and observe the plants. If the leaves are yellowing twice a week may be needed. But remember that the existing leaves frequently die off over the first 5-6 weeks, so keep an eye on the new growth that should remain green; if new growth yellows or browns, more nutrients (assuming the light is adequate) is the answer. Lights on 10 hours a day, on a timer to keep it regular works best for plants and fish.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks for the background info and the insight on the plants. I guess we will see how this adventure transpires. The plants I have are suppose to be easy to maintain. Hopefully, with the fertilizer, this will pan out.

I will pick up some of this.... Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium

I am eager to move my:

2 Platy
2 Guppies
3 molllies into the big tank as well. These are in my 10g.

When would be a good time? I have put the new fish in...

8 Neon Tetras
4 Yellow Platy

I purchased a timer for the light. So, I will keep it on 10 hours during the day. The tank is in my basement so it will not get natural sunlight, I have to rely on the florescent tube for all that.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Thanks for the background info and the insight on the plants. I guess we will see how this adventure transpires. The plants I have are suppose to be easy to maintain. Hopefully, with the fertilizer, this will pan out.
> 
> I will pick up some of this.... Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium
> 
> ...


Without natural daylight, go with 12 hours instead of 10. My tanks all run 12 hours, and I have some daylight, but sometimes people have tanks near south or west facing largish windows and that can mean a lot of daylight and in new tanks frequent algae blooms until the water is stable. Twelve hours will work.

I'm not there to see your tank, so I'm being cautious in advising on adding fish. I don't mean this to sound arrogant, but I have done this so often over 12 years that I know exactly what to expect from this or that plant, the gravel, the wood, the fish... and when I set up a new tank, as I did my 115g, 90g and 70g in July, I do it all in a day each with 90+ fish in each and no problems. Like everything, the more one does it the better you can see things and forsee things. In your case, if the plants are growing and not dying, it should be safe to add the fish if the others have been in the new tank a couple of days. The plants are the important thing; if they are growing, they will filter the water and prevent any cycling issues--but if they are dying off, they will add to the biioload with no filtering.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Your post was not taken as anything other than what it is.... EXPERIENCED. 

I will photograph the tank tomorrow and explain the material and plants inside in detail.

No worries. 

Too busy right now. We can discuss this after the photo.

Thanks


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

*Tank Shots*

Here are my latest shots of how my Aquascape is going.

I am going to the LFS tomorrow to look for better plants, hopefully they have stock.

I am also going to get the fertilizer you suggested.

Comments by anyone lurking are welcomed.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

This is going to be an interesting aquascape when you're done, nice work.

I take it you intend to add more plants. That being the case, a few of the other fish added after the additional plants (same time is OK) should be no problem. Maybe the 2 guppies, wait a couple days, then the 2 platy, etc. There needs to be adequate plant growth to handle the ammonia and this seems the safer way.

One suggestion for plants, on the assumption that your water is naturally on the basic (alkaline) side of pH 7 (i.e., above 7.0) a very good plant is Vallisneria. It grows fast, especially in harder water because it can use carbon from carbonates much better than many of the other standard plants. As algae can do the same, plants like Vallisneria are great in basic/alkaline tanks at the start since they compete against algae for the nutrients and usually win which is critical in a new setup. You can usually find these plants (there are several different species) in fish stores from time to time. They have long leaves arising from the crown, sometimes straight and sometimes curled; for info I'm attaching a photo of two species, left photo is Vallisneria americana (commonly called corkscrew val) and right photo is V. spiralis (straight val). I think these could fit in with your design rather well.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Yes, I will definitly be adding more plants. These look good, I will look for them. Right now, time is a bad factor. I have non. I want to get more plants in ASAP. Another really busy week! PH is 7.6 I blieve. I may have posted it somewhere.

I am getting Algae happening. I see it on the back glass.

Also, what is the stringy things growing from the leaves of the plants I put in?


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Help!

Algae is out of control!!!

Suggestions?

I thought I could fight this off but I have clearly lost control...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Help!
> 
> Algae is out of control!!!
> 
> ...


I'll have to read back through this thread to familiarize myself again with your setup, but in the interim can you identify the algae? Like, brown algae on plant leaves, rocks, tank glass? Or green algae on same? Or green "slime" that rubs off on your fingers? Or...whatever. Some of these are common, some more problematical. But we need to know exactly what it is. A photo of the algae would help. When I have this, and have re-read the thread, I'll respond further.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

The algae is very stringy and very strong and it is attached to the leaf of the plant. I had to tug at it pretty good to remove it. It is also green in colour. This stuff does not rub off on your fingers. It looks like hair in the beginning, then gets thicker and greener.

The stuff on the glass is also green, and is typical and similar to what I had in the 10g, when it bloomed there for a few days. That went away with pwc. This one is just getting worse.

See the pictures in Post #30, it is really obvious on the one plant. This is in the very early stages.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> The algae is very stringy and very strong and it is attached to the leaf of the plant. I had to tug at it pretty good to remove it. It is also green in colour. This stuff does not rub off on your fingers. It looks like hair in the beginning, then gets thicker and greener.
> 
> The stuff on the glass is also green, and is typical and similar to what I had in the 10g, when it bloomed there for a few days. That went away with pwc. This one is just getting worse.
> 
> See the pictures in Post #30, it is really obvious on the one plant. This is in the very early stages.


I've never seen anything like that in my tanks, not that I can recognize anyway from the photo. Here's a link to some good info on algae that may help. PG: Algae - An Overview - PlantGeek.net

This is a fairly new tank, and few plants yet. Nutrients are probably unsettled as is common in newer tanks. What's the light schedule (hours on daily) and are any fertilizers being added?

B.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Fertilizer? YES API stuff. I bought a bottle to help the plants, I couldn't find the one you recommended, but this is not the cause.

Only added it once. The algae was already forming then.

Spot Algae on glass is certain. Snails are working on that.

The stuff flowing off the leaves of the plant look like Thread Algae. The length of it makes me think this.

Lights: 12 hours as you suggested.

Will this harm the fish!??

Glass Scraper Question:
I have a plexi 10g tank. I use a magnet to clean the inside of the glass by sliding it up and down. When I bought it, it said for plexi tanks.

Can I use this on the GLASS 50g tank to scrap off the Algae. I am wondering whey there is even a different? I would think plastic is more sensitive than glass so going from Plastic to Glass should be a no brainer. Better to ask before using!!


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Byron,

It may very well be STAGHORN algae, I have been googling algae and this looks like the best bet. I checked out the stuff I pulled out and the stuff in the tank and I am pretty sure this is it.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Fertilizer? YES API stuff. I bought a bottle to help the plants, I couldn't find the one you recommended, but this is not the cause.
> 
> Only added it once. The algae was already forming then.
> 
> ...


First in response to your subsequent post, I thought it might be the staghorn from your photo but couldn't see well enough as you would with the algae in front of you. The answer then is to simply make the tank conditions incondusive for excess algae.

I would reduce the light period to 9-10 hours. I have my lights on 12 hours, but I have thickly-planted tanks and that makes a big difference. Once you have more plants, the light can be increased to 10 or whatever, just so the balance stays. Another suggestion re the light is to leave the 12 hours but introduce a "siesta" of 2 hours darkness in the middle; lights on for 5-6 hours, off for 2 hours, on for 5-6 hours. This is said by many to limit and sometimes even kill off algae. It does not seem to affect plants. If you have a timer (which is a good investment as it creates regular periods of light/dark which benefits plants and fish) this is easy to do. And a third thought is diffused or direct daylight/sunlight in the room; it's amazing the extent to which bright daylight (and certainly direct sunlight) can affect a tank. Blinds/drapes are the answer here, or factor the light in and reduce the aquarium light a bit to compensate.

Spot or dot algae appears now and then, I get it in my 115g tank but not in the others. Can be difficult to scrape off; nothing in my experience eats it, though snails work on it but not sufficient to remove it. My trick is to always use the sponge scraper on the glass I can get to (front, and sides and back where I can see it) each week during the pwc. Even if you don't see any, it may be there establishing itself. Now and then a spot gets past this, then the scraper comes out.

I've read that the magnet scraper can scratch aquarium glass, so I'd be careful. I use a plastic scraper on a stick, and if it is really stubborn dot algae a razor blade scraper. Just make sure to use it straight, not side to side (horizontal with the blade) which is more likely to scratch. And make sure any scraper doesn't pick up a small grain of gravel (or sand) when you use it close to the substrate, that will scratch the glass before you even know it. The sponge scraper easily picks up small grains if not careful.

The fertilizer will only cause excess algae if the plants can't use it; that balance again. I recently went from twice to once a week with liquid fertilizer and saw a definite lessening of algae. I had put some root sticks in for the swords, and the liquid was not being used then, so it became excess nutrients and the algae grabbed it. No algae will harm the fish, it is just unsightly and if excessive on plant leaves can kill the plants. However, it is a sign that the biological balance is not as good as it should/can be, so we take steps to keep it in check. Algae is a natural part of any aquarium, but within reasonable bounds.

Byron.


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## WisFish (Dec 16, 2008)

The Jungle Vals mentioned earlier will help reduce algae by blocking a lot of light at the surface. My tanks get pretty dark adter 2 weeks because the Vals take over. About every 6-8 weeks I sell about 6-8 plants back to the LFS. If I didn't, I'd have a tank of nothing but Jungle Vals.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

WisFish said:


> The Jungle Vals mentioned earlier will help reduce algae by blocking a lot of light at the surface. My tanks get pretty dark adter 2 weeks because the Vals take over. About every 6-8 weeks I sell about 6-8 plants back to the LFS. If I didn't, I'd have a tank of nothing but Jungle Vals.


Quite true. I have a spare 33g that is full of plants culled from my two Amazon tanks. The Pennywort is trimmed back every week, the pygmy chain swords send out several runners that I cut off every week or I'd have no space for the fish. And even though I cull them by more than half each week, the floating plants cover the entire surface the following week. Most of these go out into the compost now, as the spare tank is full and having to be culled. I have had local stores offer to take some in exchange, so I'm going to look into that.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Byron,

I have a timer and will try the 5 break for 2 and 5 more and see what happens. Thanks.

I have used the Mag-Float on the plastic tank and it worked very well! I am a fan of that type of cleaning. Howevere, I will heed your warning. I will head out to the lfs and get a scraper.

WF,

Thanks for the tip. I think I have now found a use for the 10g!!!! Growing new plants!!!! Thanks! Who-da-thunk it?  

Sometimes, something is so obvious you miss it completely.

Off to the lfs.....


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Update on the Algae.

Consensus is it is Staghorn Algae.

I have replaced the top layer filter pad in my canister with a pad that removes phosphates at the recommendation of the lfs.

I have reduced the light and broken it down as suggested by Byron. Amazing results. My plants are substantially better in the amount of Algae that was growing from them. My water is also clearer.

I have removed a good portion of the spot algae as well with the mag-float.

Looks like things are under control.

Current population in the 50g:

2 x Red Wag Platy
4 x Yellow Platy
2 x Show Guppies
7 x Neon Tetras
3 x Siamese Algae Eater

Going to add 3 Mollies later. I also have two small Molly fry that survived that I am nurturing. They are a nice size right now and swimming around the 10g tank with the other Molly.

Picked up the Val plant as suggested. Looks nice in the back corner.

The help on Fishforum is stellar, thanks.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

:thumbsup: 
Current population in the 50g:

2 x Red Wag Platy
4 x Yellow Platy
2 x Show Guppies
7 x Neon Tetras
3 x Siamese Algae Eater

STOP THE PRESSES..... Plus.... a Fry!! I can't quite yet tell what it is!!! 

It is swimming around in the rocks. Honestly, this is my biggest thrill in keeping fish is finding little fry:-D!!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Nothing is insurmountable. Good work, and congrats on the fry. Keep us posted.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

*Eheim Professional II Canister Filter...*

I thought I would sing the praises of this filter system. I started my 50g a month or so ago. I have to say that compared to my 10g, this filter system is simply awesome.

With the 10g, my filter took for ever to cycle and I did 2-3 water changes a week. I constantly had trouble with the water tests and especially had trouble controlling ammonia. I did eventually get it under control.

I am changing water once a week in the 50g. on average. More now due to the algae issue. But, the water cycled almost immediately and this filter just rocks. Every test is bang on. My conclusion is that it is well worth spending the money on a high end filter system. I don't think I will ever go any other way if I decide to run another tank. 

This particular filter system is a snap. I unplugged it, removed it to the bathroom, opened the canister, changed one layer of filter pad and put it all together in about 10 minutes. No mess, easy to do. I can't say enough about it. I highly recommend this filter, although it is quite pricey. I was lucky to get a deal on mine.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

*Almost a YEAR AGO when I posted.....*

Hello Fellow Fish Lovers,

I thought I would check in. Haven't been online much of late for fish as I have been trucking along problem free for a bit.

I am greatly enjoying my fish and my 50g tank.

I posted this message last Oct or so?:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Current population in the 50g:

2 x Red Wag Platy
4 x Yellow Platy
2 x Show Guppies
7 x Neon Tetras
3 x Siamese Algae Eater

STOP THE PRESSES..... Plus.... a Fry!! I can't quite yet tell what it is!!! 

It is swimming around in the rocks. Honestly, this is my biggest thrill in keeping fish is finding little fry!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Through births, deaths and purchases, my tank has "exploded" with new fish.

Currently, I have at least 4 fry swimming happily in the forest of VALs.

I have:

5 x Red Wag Platy
2 x Guppy
7 x Neon Tetras
3 x Siamese Algae Eaters
5 x Sunset Platy
1 x Black Molly
3 x Creamcycle Molly (I love the colour of these)
4 x (can't remember but they look like the Siamese but smaller)
4 x (can't remember) I will try to find the names

I think I am a little over populated but water parameters are still normal. Changing water more to compensate.

Still using my Eheim Canister II Professional filter. Love this thing. 

I have tons of plants now, mostl VAL that have taken over. I cull them now and then and two other plants, again, names (I am bad with names) escape me. I will look these up on the bills I have filed and update.

Tons of snails and lots of spot Algae (still haven't managed to get rid of this). Mostly, on the back glass, I fight it more on the sides and front.

Byron, you still out there? Again, your help in the past was greatly appreciated, thanks.

Popped in here to say hello! 

Art


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

OK, the two fish I couldn't remember the names are:

Brilliant Rasbora
Serpae Tetra
2 x Guppies (forgot to list these)

I have a very, very thick patch of VALs, and some C. Spirlalis planted. I am adding one more plant soon.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Good to hear your tank is doing well!

Your tank isn't all that heavily stocked, especially if it's heavily planted. Do you have any pictures of your tank?


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Yes, I will post them later today. It is very heavily planted, in my opinion, but you can let me know different.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

*My 50g Tank - June 4, 2010*

Here is my latest picture of my tank, taken about 10 minutes ago.

You can see my spot Algae problem on the back glass (the pale yellow wall behind the tank doesn't help for colour either!  ). I have given up on that simply due to the equipment attached and the difficulty in getting down there.

Otherwise, the tank is awesome, brings me hours of enjoyment.

What do you think?

Art

PS: I just knocked back the VALs by 20%! I removed about 25 stems from the front left. They creep quite a bit and the were really crowding the front and moving right so I took them out. I am planning to take out another 10 in the front so you can see the driftwood again. They are pretty dense behind it.

Current Stock:

5 x Red Wag Platy (I just LOVE the Red Wag Platy, I wish I had a bigger tank)
2 x Guppy
7 x Neon Tetras
3 x Siamese Algae Eaters (these are a riot, wish I had more)
5 x Sunset Platy
1 x Black Molly
3 x Creamcycle Molly (I love the colour of these)
4 x Brilliant Rasboa (least favourite of the bunch)
4 x Serpae Tetra (these can be nasty and aggressive, but they are very attractive)

4 x (best I can tell) Fry of some sort. Probably Sunset Platy

PSPS: 

Here is what AqAdvisor says:

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 83%.
Recommended water change schedule: 42% per week.
Your aquarium stocking level is 112%.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

That's looking nice in my opinion. My one suggestion would be to get a black or maybe dark brown plain background. The fish and plants would pop.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Hi Byron,

Thanks. The picture is not that great but it is a nice looking aquarium. The Algae is a bit of a turn off, but it is what it is. This weekend, with the next PWC, I will do a major scrapping.

So, you think I am good with the current population?

Art


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

*Some more TANK shots*

Here are 3 more shots of my tank.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Hi Byron,
> 
> Thanks. The picture is not that great but it is a nice looking aquarium. The Algae is a bit of a turn off, but it is what it is. This weekend, with the next PWC, I will do a major scrapping.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't add more fish. As long as you do regular weekly partial water changes of 40+% I think this number will be fine.

I would watch the Serpae though; in groups of 9+ they sometimes confine their nipping to themselves. But a group of 4 is asking for trouble and they may at some point erupt. I would remove them immediately if you notice any of the other fish with nipped fins. This aggression is very stressful to other fish and even if the nipping itself doesn't cause problems the stress will bring on health issues. Myself, I would never have serpae in community tanks under 90g, and then only in a large group, and with carefully selected tankmates. This is the advice Iggy Tavares gives in an article on this species in the May 2010 issue of AFI (Aquarium Fish International) and I fully agree.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Great.

Guess who suggested them to me!!!!

LFS

LOL 

They get aggressive when I feed. Otherwise, so far, they simply swim around. They are usually calm until I grab the food bag and approach the tank. I am like a GIANT MOMMY FISH to them. You can almost hear the screaming..... FOOOD!

LOL

Pretty funny to watch.

I guess I will return them to the LFS. Too bad, I like the way they look!!!!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

They do have the advantage of being tank raised (it would be rare to find wild-caught fish unless from an importer hobbyist/dealer) which means they adjust to water parameters that normally are not suitable for characins (tetras, etc) which is why they are so common and "popular." Some keep a small group with no issues (at least for a while), others can't, and there is always the risk that they will revert to their natural instincts. If you have a look at our profile of this fish (click on the shaded name Serpae Tetra to go to the profile) you will note comments on why this may be.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

Well, I will be honest, I am greatly disappointed that these very beautiful, colourful and translucent fish are so aggressive. I have not noticed any fish contact/nipping per say, but I will return them. 

A shame as I enjoyed watching them. They are so unique in shape and colour.

Something I am not liking that is happening in the tank is the aggression around feeding. Normally, the fish lull around calmly, floating, pecking here and there and are generally very relaxed. 

As soon as they see me they go into a frenzy, darting here and there expecting a feeding.

When I am not near the tank, they typically swim and behave in a calm fashion I enjoy watching. It is almost like I can't go near the tank, which is extremely counter to why I have the tank! LOL


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

That is a nice looking tank! I agree that a dark-colored background would really work wonders.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Big Fish said:


> Well, I will be honest, I am greatly disappointed that these very beautiful, colourful and translucent fish are so aggressive. I have not noticed any fish contact/nipping per say, but I will return them.
> 
> A shame as I enjoyed watching them. They are so unique in shape and colour.
> 
> ...


Fish naturally "learn" that your appearance coincides with food. They also learn to react at certain times if your feeding is regular. For instance, I always feed my fish in the morning, about an hour or so after the tank lights come on. When I enter the fish room in the morning, they all approach the front near the top, expecting to be fed. The catfish (various species), normally most of whom are "out of sight" are all out near the front, also expecting food. When I enter the room at other times, I do not get this reaction, because over time the fish have learned that food is not going to be offered then. I have three spotted woodcats (the fish in my avatar) that are nocturnal; they spend all day in tunnels in the wood, only (and I mean, only) coming out in total darkness. Except, if I enter the fish room around 5 pm they will hear me and come to the entrance of their respective tunnels, peering out; they know that frozen bloodworms are offered at 5 pm on alternate days, and that is their favourite. Once the glass top slides back, they charge out and around the wood in anticipation. They never do this otherwise, except at that time of evening.

Aside from feeding, there is another thing and that is activity around the tank. If people are regularly moving about near the tanks, the fish learn not to be scared of the motion and will stay out and behave normally much more. My fish are off in the fishroom by themselves, and it is only when I deliberately enter the fish room that they have activity outside the tanks. They scatter every time (except the feeding time mentioned above) but once I sit down, in a minute or less, they are back to normal. I like to sit in front of the tanks in my easy chair for an hour or more, observing their interactions, which can be highly fascinating. I see frequent spawning activity, and even spot fry now and then that have managed to escape predation. It is highly relaxing and very rewarding.

Byron.


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## Big Fish (Aug 22, 2009)

I wonder how many other fish enthusiasts do the same things. I get a great deal of pleasure observing the fish. You learn their personality, so to speak. Some are docile, others more aggressive, within the same group of fish.

Very entertaining for me. My biggest single thrill continue to be... FRY! I love it when I see them. I currently have 4 and I am rooting for them. They seem to hang out in the top left hand side of the tank where I have let the leaves of the VAL over grow and bunch up at the surface. They hid here. So far, they are a healthy size and I think they will make it. I was going to try to isolate them in a breeding tank but figured it would be next to impossible to catch them and I would damage the plants and traumatize all the other fish in the tank trying.

These prefer to stay near the surface. I think they have learned it is easier to get food there. 

I typically spend 30 minutes to an hour every other day with my nose pressed against the glass. As I have said before, my favourite fish by far are my Red Wag Platy. They seem like a very nice, hardy and friendly fish and I just love their colour.

Art


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