# Rasbora hanging out at top of tank constantly?



## mechanical8dragon

I see no signs of disease and everyone was eating this morning. Fish does not seem bloated and the water is well oxygenated. Fish seems a bit pale in terms of red coloration but his/her black markings are bold.

Fish is in a 20g long, set up since late last December.
Temp is kept at a constant 74F
Ammonia <0.25 ppm (barely readable)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <20 ppm

filter is a topfin 40. pumps 171g/hr and is on the lowest setting.
I did a ~10% WC yesterday when I saw him/her at the surface thinking it was my nitrates, but when i tested before the WC the nitrates were below 20ppm, but I did one anyways. I also accidently bumped the slate in my tank at the bac and it caused a bunch of debris to fill the tank.. another reason for the WC so I cleaned the slate -facepalm-

Densely planted, stock is listed in my signature as well as a picture of the tank (slight modifications)

Fish seems like its tired more than anything. The breathing is no different than the other fish (perhaps just a BIT more but not much) no serious gasping or the likes. All other fish are fine. 

This fish will hang out at the surface then occasionally dip back down to the center before returning to the upper level where it will swim around for a bit before choosing the left corner/side where there is no current and just sit there at the surface. There is no wobbling or strange swimming motions at all. It seems to be getting more common now (hanging at the top instead of swimming anywhere else that is).

Any thoughts? I'm really confused as t what's causing this. the fish doesn't seem like its floating up to the top, it swims up there, and it swims quite fine. I'm at a loss.

A picture of the fish can be taken if it's needed.


EDIT:
Now that i look more closely, his/her front fins seem... smooshed together? It's hard to describe. The easiest way would be to say "Nemo". Their fins are so small i can't really even see them, ut it doesn't look like there are any 'bite marks' or chucks missing, they just look like they have grown into just a fin? Could it just be they're having a harder time swimming? But that doesn't explain why this just started to show up yesterday when i've had these fish for a few weeks now. (well i don't know which batch this fish came in but the first batch of fish i got was back in the beginning of January)


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## Sylverclaws

Barely readable ammonia is still ammonia. 

Nitrate is at the max handleable level for most fish, you want to get that down too. 

If I recall correctly, and I am assuming this is a Harlequin Rasbora from the red and black description(if not, let us know what type he is), you may want to up the temp to 76 degrees. I know they can handle it lower, but most tropical fish like it right about there, unless they're warmer water tropical species, some types of fish just like it almost bath water warm ^^; I do not know about this part for sure though(from what I've red Harlequins like it from 72F to 80F), hopefully someone else can shed light on if the temp is too low or not. 

Now then, the symptoms say poison(hanging at the top, being a tad clenchy, paler colors, lower levels don't always affect other fish, this one may have a poor immune system and be delicate), likely from the ammonia and nitrates in the tank. You want zero ammonia, not a tad, and 10ppm or less on the nitrates. It sounds like you're having a mini cycle going on here. 

Do a 35-40% water change and use some Prime to treat the water and help detoxify it. See if that drops it to where it's supposed to be at zero. 

If his color isn't as off as it seems to be, and a photo would help yes, severe constipation can cause them to be lethargic and hang out somewhere and clench a bit. A blanched, skinned pea can help with that most often. Wont hurt to test it either, even if it's not the problem. 

It'd also help to know how many fish you have in there, and all types.


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## mechanical8dragon

Well literally just a minute ago he started to be unable to swim right and is now practically dead. I have him in a container floating in the tank. He's not moving much

This is a harlequin. yes

Also my stock is in my signature, like stated in the OP

Also... my ammonia is ALWAYS <0.25ppm. keep in mind its most likely less than the 0.25 since its just BARELY green. and when i saw barely i mean barely. I understand that anything but 0 is something that could, if only slightly cause a problem, but this is something that shows back up within 24hrs after a large WC. I never have any reading for nitrites there. It's always a very light blue in color.

I did feed some de-skinned peas the other day that some took to. I don't think they quite know what it is yet cus most seem uninterested it in. I do feed veggi flakes on occassion (a few times a week mixed with their omega flakes) that they eat. IDK if that helps anything or not.

I'll do a large WC just to make sure if it's something in the tank causing this is out. but all the other fish are active so perhaps this guy just was one of those fish that wouldn't make it from the start. I'll upload a pic of him here in a sec.

Also im fairly certain this isn't a min-cycle. as my ammonia is NEVER above .25ppm and my nitrates never exceed 20ppm (even after a week of no WCs since before I only did a WC on friday or saturday and the readings remained the same throughout the whole week). There is never any reading of nitrites since my completed cycle. I have about 5ppm of Nitrates in my tap so even a large WC always brings in some more nitrates.


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## mechanical8dragon

i crushed up a pea for him but he's completely uninterested. He'll swim for a second then flop over on his belly and just hang there upside down, unmoving, but still breathing.


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## mechanical8dragon

well he passed. I just dont get replies fast enough to save them I guess.


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## Sylverclaws

Meh, I'm sorry, that sucks. Poor guy. =(

I told you what the likely cause was, you just didn't listen. HOWEVER, no matter how fast replies came from the time you first posted this, I really don't think you could have saved him at this point. Highly likely it was the ammonia accompanied by a poor immune system(ANY ammonia is bad, no matter how low the amount, bad, toxic yuck) that allowed it to hit harder, and probably stress(likely from not enough space for two schools of sixteen top/mid level swimmers). 

For one, twenty gallons, even the long ones, isn't enough for eight of two different top/mid level schoolers AND a group of bottom-level shoalers AND a BN pleco(who by the way should not be kept in anything smaller than thirty gallons, they do get six inches and have a pretty buff bioload themselves). Just one of each, and usually only five or six of them.


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## mechanical8dragon

I did listen to u. I did a WC. but he died before i had finished. 

Secondly... my stocking list was OKed across 5 forums by 5+ people on each forum.... sooo idk wut to tell ya there. I only accepted the advice and reccomendations given to me by other people. People said this was an OK stocking list... so I went ahead with it. Never got a negative remark about this stock.

Thirdly, my ammonia reading givin was wrong. Apparantly its 0. I looked at the bottle without full light and it did look a bit green but taking it into the kitchen that has natural daylight bulbs they were light yellow. (My windows are located facing the south... or north so I get barely any natural light... doesn't help its winter soo even less) My nitrate level was accurate though, was orange so it was somewhere between 10 and 20ppm Wasn't 5.

After the WC my nitrate reading is about 5-10ppm. Again.. my tap has about 5-10ppm of nitrate in it already so no matter how much water I change I will ALWAYS have abut 5-10ppm nitrate in my tank. There's nothing I can do about that. I just have to hope that all the plants i have in the tank will keep the nitrate lvl down enough to keep it from getting past 20ppm which they have been so far.


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## jaysee

Sometimes fish die for reasons beyond our control. There's just not a lot that can be done about it when there are no indicators to tell you which way to go.



Sylverclaws said:


> Barely readable ammonia is still ammonia.
> 
> Nitrate is at the max handleable level for most fish, you want to get that down too.


There may or may not be a harmful level of ammonia. Tests are far from exact. There IS always ammonia in the water - that's what feeds the bacteria. Its certainly not unheard of for tests to consistently show a small amount of ammonia. Again, the tests arent all that exact.

Nitrate had NOTHING to do with anything. 20 is NOT the maximum handle-able level for most fish. That's just flat out untrue, and the fact that people repeat this misinformation does not make it any more legitimate. If I were to test my tanks right now nitrates would be at least 40 ppm. Only time they are ever under 20 is immediately after a water change. In public aquariums nitrates are triple digit high.


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## mechanical8dragon

Im sorry if I sound rude, its just I've been having fish die on me left and right. I went a week finally without a single death and then that guy passed. None of the fish that have died have shown any signs of health problems. One day they're fine, then the next they're dead. I test my tank immediately after I see a dead fish and the readings are always the same.

<.25 amm
0 nI
10-20 nA

The only time I had a fish show a disease was my previous betta who got mouth fungus and died the next day before i could get meds, none of the other fish have shown signs of it since then but I'm led to assume she had it when i purchased her since again... my tank had the same water params.

So its just that Im getting really frustrated about these unknown deaths and the fact I've easily spent 100$ in fish at this point and they just keep dying. Its not you, or anyone, its just me getting frustrated.


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## jaysee

mechanical8dragon said:


> Im sorry if I sound rude, its just I've been having fish die on me left and right. I went a week finally without a single death and then that guy passed. None of the fish that have died have shown any signs of health problems. One day they're fine, then the next they're dead. I test my tank immediately after I see a dead fish and the readings are always the same.
> 
> <.25 amm
> 0 nI
> 10-20 nA
> 
> The only time I had a fish show a disease was my previous betta who got mouth fungus and died the next day before i could get meds, none of the other fish have shown signs of it since then but I'm led to assume she had it when i purchased her since again... my tank had the same water params.
> 
> So its just that Im getting really frustrated about these unknown deaths and the fact I've easily spent 100$ in fish at this point and they just keep dying. Its not you, or anyone, its just me getting frustrated.


Okay so you've gone through a lot of fish. Are you getting the same species over and over? Do you quarantine new fish? If yes for how long? 

Regarding ammonia - your filter is plenty big to sustain your bioload. Unless you are messing with the filter media by changing cartridges and all, obsessively cleaning everything, or you have a mess of rotting plants in the tank, there is no reason for you to have ammonia in your water. I think you may just be getting false positives. One thing you can do JUST to make sure, is add more filter media to the filter. I would go out and get some aquaclear sponges. They are easily cut to shape and make better media than the cartridges, if that's what you are using.

That being said, there does exist the possibility that the water IS responsible. There's more to the water than just ammonia and nitrite - things you can't test for. I would look to rule out the water as the source of your problems and try using RO water for a little while. You will need to use RO water conditioner - different than regular water conditioner. You can buy RO by the gallon at many fish stores, as well as walmarts and other places. Usually runs between $0.25 and $0.50 a gallon. BYOB (bring your own bucket). Since you've lost so many fish I think that warrants ruling out the water.


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## mechanical8dragon

Yes, same species every time, all from Petsmart. No I don't QT the new fish, nothing to QT them it atm though sometime down the road I want to get a little 10g that i can slide underneath my current tank, but i'll need a new extension cord cus the one i have only has one more plugin available.

I do have hard water, my pH is around 7.6-7.8

I don't even like drinking it (i use purified water i make in those brita filter things) but yu have to understand that I don't have a car... and lugging water, no matte the distance, especially more than 2 jugs is impossible for me. I want to get one of those bike carts (the one you put kids in but only i wouldnt use it for kids) which would make that easier, and I know RO water is cheap its just i lack the means of transportation to carry it. ;-; So really RO water is out of the question for me at this moment. and I will NEVER have enough money to buy one of those RO filter thingies that some people use in aquariums. They're what.. hundreds of dollars? I barely make 200$ a month. P:

My filter is as full with media as it can carry. I have two large sponge sin there as well as the bio ceramic rings. This is an internal filter. P:


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## jaysee

mechanical8dragon said:


> Yes, same species every time, all from Petsmart. No I don't QT the new fish, nothing to QT them it atm though sometime down the road I want to get a little 10g that i can slide underneath my current tank, but i'll need a new extension cord cus the one i have only has one more plugin available.
> 
> I do have hard water, my pH is around 7.6-7.8
> 
> I don't even like drinking it (i use purified water i make in those brita filter things) but yu have to understand that I don't have a car... and lugging water, no matte the distance, especially more than 2 jugs is impossible for me. I want to get one of those bike carts (the one you put kids in but only i wouldnt use it for kids) which would make that easier, and I know RO water is cheap its just i lack the means of transportation to carry it. ;-; So really RO water is out of the question for me at this moment. and I will NEVER have enough money to buy one of those RO filter thingies that some people use in aquariums. They're what.. hundreds of dollars? I barely make 200$ a month. P:
> 
> My filter is as full with media as it can carry. I have two large sponge sin there as well as the bio ceramic rings. This is an internal filter. P:


Quarantining is really, really important. I would make that a priority if I were you, especially if petsmart is your sole fish provider.

If you keep getting the same species of fish and they keep dying on you, perhaps that's not the best species for you to be keeping. Not really an answer you want to hear, I'm sure, but at some point I would throw in the towel and try another species. 

Have we gone over the RO business before? Sorry it's hard to keep things straight sometimes. Yeah the units cost like 200. HOWEVER, considering that you can also use that for your drinking water it would be a multipurpose purchase. Just a thought for the future. Might find one on craigslist for cheap.

I don't know - not that this exactly solves your problem but I wouldn't waste any more money buying fish that have proven to not make it in my tank.... whatever the reason.


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## mechanical8dragon

No its something I've come to accept. Clearly these Harlys and neons aren't working for me if they keep dying. Should I just hold on to them? Or return them for different fish? I'm past my 14 day warrenty on them for a refund, but idk if they'll take them in exchange for different fish and just have me pay the difference? If so... what fish would be recommended? I haven't lose a single one of my corys or my BN so they're clearly fine o-o

I know what RO water is if that's what ur asking. It's just basically distilled water only the process is different. I also know you have to add minerals BACK into the water because it lacks them. I know its pH is 7, so on so fourth.

Yeah... you make a good point about it also allowing for drinking water... but I wouldn't even know what type to look for. I live in an apartment, so its not like I can hook it up to my water tank if thats even possible. It would basically have to be some kind of.. tub that I can pull from when needed. I know amazon is a nice place to look but again, I woudn't know what 'model' to look for as I really don't understand the actuall 'machine' itself, except that it runs water thru stages of filtering.


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## jaysee

Petsmart won't take them back after the 14 days. I think your options are either to just keep them and let them die out in time or give them to someone else.

I meant I was talking to someone about RO water the other day and wasn't sure if it was you or not. I don't know much about the machines but they probably can hook up to the faucet in the kitchen sink.


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## mechanical8dragon

Alright well.... i doubt i'll find anyone on craigslist to give them to. Even for free, and i hate to do it but I guess that leaves me with just keeping them.

As for the RO water... mmm nope wasn't me heh. Well, maybe i can start a topic discussing it and see what people think. As well as fish.

I mean as far as the fish goes. Yeah it could be my water or... it could just be a bad batch of fish. I know when i first got my neons i had 4 of them die within two days, but the remaining four lasted a week before I got four more and they're perfectly fine, haven't had any deaths from them at all. The Harlequins i only lost 1 at first then the rest were fine, added a few more they were fine, then I finally finished the school at 10 and then 2 died one day and a few days later now this recent one. For al i know the fish could have been from that latest added batch and it was just a bad group. P: I hate to think its my water killing the fish as tht would make me feel so horrible.


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## Sylverclaws

Your fish showed symptoms of toxins in the body, he certainly in no way showed signs of nothing and then died, therefor he obviously died of -something- and not nothing. Find the poison and fix it(you have two poisons in your tank, too many fish and readable toxins), any other weakened fish will also follow suit otherwise, and having ammonia in the water on -readable- levels with high nitrates will eventually lower the immune systems of the others and kill them.


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## Chesh

Guys, chill. . . if you'd like to start a thread on maintaining stable water parameters in a small tank, feel free to do so. . . in our Advanced Freshwater Discussion area, as it looks like its up for debate. 
Mech.Dragon started this thread to get input on her problem, and it is entirely her decision to take or leave advice given.

. . . I'm sorry your having a tough time, Dragon *hugs* I hope you get it figured out. :/


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## mechanical8dragon

Thanks. P: I'm starting to believe its a fungus causing the death Cus I just pulled a fish out today that looked like it had white stuff on it. I dabbed some premafix (spellig it wrong) on its body and it's sitting in a net ATM. It's displaying the same behavior the other one had so well see if I got to it quick enough. I would have stayed and looked after him but I have college classes to attend to. ;-; I hope he makes it but I won't know till I get home in 8hours. 

I'm wondering... If I should just treat the whole tank with Primafix Cus this is the second case I've seen that was clearly fungus. The first was my betta who died of a mouth fungus but that was a few weeks ago. 

Should I just go ahead and do the Primafix treatment plan or wait?


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## jaysee

If that's the case I would highly recommend a real anti-fungal medication. The -fixes don't really fix all that much.


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## mechanical8dragon

What would you recommend? I just got prima mela. And the API ich cure. I didn't see any other meds that petsmart had but then again I wasn't looking very hard. I can return the meds I think if I kept the reciept. 0-0 I was just going off YouTube vids and another thread I posted when my betta got fungus.


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## jaysee

I would try API fungus cure. Jungle makes a fizzy tab. There are others too.

In my opinion the problem with using the fixes is that it can waste valuable treatment time. I know a lot of people have an aversion to using real meds but it's important to take care of these things quickly and decisively, because they can kill quick. I'm not saying that the fixes are worthless, but I think that all too often then are used in situations where more aggressive treatments are called for.

If there aren't really active infections going on and you suspect that there might be a fungus problem, then I would use the fix. But once there is an active infection that's spreading, I would make the switch to a real med.


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## mechanical8dragon

Mk. I'll see if I can fine my receipt this afternoon and see it petsmart has the API fungal cure. I'd imagine they would if they had the ich one. If I don't have the receipt though should I medicate the tank? None of the other fish show any fungal signs but just like the recent fish. It was one of those "one day perfectly fine and the next dying" so I feel they might have it even if they aren't showing symptoms.


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## jaysee

Yeah I don't think it can do anything but help to use the pimafix at this point. I would still get the fungal cure though - a good med to have on hand.

Too, some bacterial infections can look like a fungal infection - specifically columnaris. I don't have any direct experience with it so I'll leave you to research that on your own - I know you're fully capable


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## mechanical8dragon

Yeah. I think the person who replied to my betta thread said it could be what she had but idk. It wasn't that 'puffy' it's more like just a thin patch but I guess it never has time to fully go all out before the fish dies. 

I guess I'll start the meds tonight. Read up on what I have to do Cus the bottle doesn't really give detailed description other than the dosage per 10g but it doesn't say if I dose daily or just once and leave it for 7 days. Lol stupid bottles. 

If that doesn't work and the white stuff comes back I guess we eliminated the fungal side of things. That or it just flat out didn't work. Hah...


I'm wondering if I should just save up and order from a reputable breeder or something... Cus petsmart stock clearly hasn't been kind to me. But with winter here even if it's not super cold I still worry.


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## jaysee

I believe you dose daily.


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## mechanical8dragon

home now. read the bottle more carefully and yes it did say daily lol.

The harly from this morning is still alive! I was quite surprised. I came home and went "Time to remove a dead fish" boy did he prove me wrong. He's still uneasily swimming, occasionally flopping over onto his back, but I took him out of the net and into a container I punched holes in so he doesn't have the fight the tank current.

I dosed the whole tank with pimafix so hopefully this helps the remaining fish. 

The white spot that was on the Harly this morning is gone now, though his fins are still clamped up. I dropped in a flake of food though he didn't show much interest not surprised. Fed the others, eh didn't seem all too hungry.

I'm hoping my paycheck gets in sooner than later and not friday like the last one cus I want to go get a cheap 10g to set up as a QT.

Obviously I'd want a 'weak flow' filter, any recommendations?


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## Tolak

mechanical8dragon said:


> I'm wondering if I should just save up and order from a reputable breeder or something... Cus petsmart stock clearly hasn't been kind to me. .


I won't let PetSmart fish into my house, much less put them in a tank. Every tank in their shop is on one centralized system, sick fish in one tank means all have been exposed. Petco is a little better, they run Mars systems, so every bank of tanks in a system is separate from the others. 

Look for a local club to find breeders, you'll find healthier fish cheaper than a shop. We're at the tail end of winter, shipping shouldn't be an issue. You won't get fish that have been exposed to some unknown & untraceable illness. BTW your stocking is fine, I've bred albino bristlenose in a 20l, that's 2 adults & countless fry.


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## jaysee

I must have the nicest Petsmart around - everytime I'm there employees are maintaining the tanks. It's certainly in a whole different league than every other one I've ever seen. Ive been in about 6 now - just comparing the size of the fish section, the other 5 combined don't touch mine (the entire depth of the store, 3 tanks high). And the quality is better than some of the fish stores I've seen. I truly feel bad for people that are forced to shop for fish from those dinky little fish sections. 


For a 10 gallon QT the aquaclear 20 is your best bet IMO and E. It's got an adjustable flow, has fully customizable media that allows you to both preserve seeded media in the event of medicating and change out carbon with ease.


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## mechanical8dragon

well i thought my petsmart was quite nice. tanks always clean, etc. but... i guess not @[email protected]

I live in montana... i'd be SHOCKED if i found even one breeder here. We don't even have our own LFS in many of our cities. I think billings might be the best bet but even that is up in the air (and billings is about an 8 hr drive away from me.. no thank you)


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## jaysee

Im not saying they all weren't nice, though they weren't. More meant about the selection of fish and the space devoted to them. Next time I'll take some pictures 

I would look into buying online. I have never gotten the overnight shipping and have only had one problem, which the seller took care of for me even though they didn't have to.


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## mechanical8dragon

well, I'll certainly keep that in mind for the future. I've learned my lesson. 100$ EASILY in fish and they're probably all infected with something, not to mention the 10some fish that have died and I've replaced. -_-


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## jaysee

Yeah, that's A LOT of fish to go through.... there is something really wrong somewhere. I hope it's just a matter of the wrong type of fish for your water, rather than the wrong water for fish.


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## mechanical8dragon

yeah online purchases might be my best bet. There's a FW store in Kalispel which is about an hour away but again lol no car.

The rasbora seems to be swimming alright now... not flopping over all over the place so I think, if he continues to show he's swimming well, I'll release him back in with the others since I'm treating the whole tank anyways. We'll see.

I never lost a fish BEFORE i introduces those 4 neons that belly up-ed a few days later and then my betta that grew some fungus of sorts on her and died. Before that I never had an issue and I've had those earlier fish for about 2 weeks except one harly death after i initially introduced them to the tank but after that, nothing. Then the neons, and since then I've had fish deaths every week following. Not as much as 4 at once like the neons, but ya know.. I have my assumptions that the neons brought something in and now everyone is like "FFFFFFF"


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## Tolak

Check out AquaBid, you're a 2 day ground ship from the west coast of Washington & a good portion of Oregon.


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## jaysee

mechanical8dragon said:


> I never lost a fish BEFORE i introduces those 4 neons that belly up-ed a few days later and then my betta that grew some fungus of sorts on her and died. Before that I never had an issue and I've had those earlier fish for about 2 weeks except one harly death after i initially introduced them to the tank but after that, nothing. Then the neons, and since then I've had fish deaths every week following. Not as much as 4 at once like the neons, but ya know.. I have my assumptions that the neons brought something in and now everyone is like "FFFFFFF"


Hmmmm, well one thing for sure is that I would not get any new fish until your tank stops having deaths. Gotta eliminate variables if you are ever to fix this problem.

One thing I mentioned earlier was that "sometimes fish die for reasons beyond our control". That doesn't mean that the fish died for no reason - there's ALWAYS a reason why the fish dies. It's easy to tell why some fish die, because they exhibit obvious indicators such as fungus growing on it, or they have mouth rot, or they're covered in ich, etc. What's NOT so easy to determine is when they die suddenly with no obvious indicators. Many keepers look for a scapegoat in this situation - something to pin in on. Really though, that's a shot in the dark. I hate to see people look to the most convenient "reason" and say that must be it, when there's just no way of knowing that. There are all kinds of internal factors which can kill the fish without any symptoms, some of which MAY be a result of the conditions they're kept in. There's no survival of the fittest here - defective fish make it into our tanks. They often die when all the other fish are fine, because they are weak. That's one of the advantages of quarantining. Now in cases where there is an isolated incident, like with a defective fish, that can be all well and good except for the lingering idea that "this" killed the fish. However, when there is a steady string of deaths, one must be a detective and assuming that this or that is the problem is not the way to figure out the cause.

It is entirely possible that the fish have introduced something, especially because you didn't have a problem before. If it were the water itself, like I had inquired about at the beginning of the thread, you would have had problems before you added the neons. I really think you should not add any more fish until you havent had a fish die in a while. When you do, try a new species


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## mechanical8dragon

oh yes, I won't be adding any more fish until I can at LEAST go a month without a single death or illness pop up. so if I can last till the end of March I think I'll be okay so long as no strange things pop up like white growth, etc.

Hey... at least it'll give me time to watch my plants grow some more. My Amazon sword is still blowing up like a crazy freaky alien. new shoots EVERYWHERE its insane. Someone joked in another thread of mine and named it an "Aqueonus Heaterius" or something of the sort cus... lol its planted for the most part in front of my heater and the heater is an eyesore to a lot of people. so apparently this sword feels it is its duty to grow faster than any other plant to cover it up. I'm not certain if my dwarf hairgrass will make it or not... It could have just wilted back but idk, only time will tell. I took out all the water wisteria... they weren't looking to hot and when i pulled up one to move it somewhere else it's root was COVERED in a thick layer of.... white stuff o-o it was so gross i squeeled and threw it in my trash when i saw it (typical girl...).


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## jaysee

You lost me the second you started talking about plants


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## mechanical8dragon

LOL!!!

-patpat-


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## jaysee

NOW, if Agent13 wants to put plants in my tanks when I set them back up after the move, she can go right ahead. I have a feeling she will take over the maintenance on them anyways


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## mechanical8dragon

i find live plants to be such a wonderful addition <3 of course because I prefer to be low tech I stay away from the high light required plants and the ones that NEED CO2 and all that fancy stuff. it just brightens things up <3<3 My corys have even begun to clean my plants a bit. not as much as i wish they would (gunk gets stuck in them all thetime ESPECIALLY the hairgrass) and theres some stringy brown things on the stems and such that I feel are diatoms? I heard ts really common in new aquariums and once their 'food source' is deminished they go away, but I'm pretty sure that's what it is. it irks me a bit cus it makes my plants look a bit icky, but h well. I get a bit on my sand too but thats easily vacuumed up.


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## jaysee

blah blah blah ;-)

I can appreciate the beauty of a well planted tank, no doubt. It's just not something I care to deal with. I did have a java moss "ball" in my 125 that took over nearly half the tank - top to bottom, front to back. I got fed up with it and gave it away. I also had a moss tornado.


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## Agent13

jaysee said:


> NOW, if Agent13 wants to put plants in my tanks when I set them back up after the move, she can go right ahead. I have a feeling she will take over the maintenance on them anyways



Hahahahahaha! Yes.. I will most likely take over maintenance .. So those random plants you'll see.. Yeah... Don't ask about them tehehe.
Oh the OP is good with swords ? Me too! I love them. Mine send off runners and take over tanks. It's great! My swords are half the reason my Pygmy sunfish are spawning so soon. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## mechanical8dragon

LOL your video made me laugh more than it should have XDDD the music.. omg like it made me tear up. lol!

MM oh i love my sword but oh god I hope it doesn't take over. Those darn things get HUGE. 1 for a 20g is plenty thank you ahhaa, but I guess if I get runners I can always sell them . I paid 8$ for this darn thing at Petsmart when it only had 4 shoots, now.. just a few months later it has 10 (or more, too lazy to count) 5 of which are 4+ inches longl -shot-




On a more related note, i released the Harly from it's tub. So far its swimming just fine. there are some spots on it still but the patch it had this morning has cleared up. Here's to hoping he'll be alive in the morning. Lights are out for the night (trying to cut back my light so I can keep the diatoms/brown algae under control though its not out of control, I just don't want it in my tank HNG, hopefully as the plants start taking up some more nutrients in the tank like they're suppose to it'll fade)


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## jaysee

VERY tense music 


Diatoms go away when they go away. I think you are supposed to brush it off of the leaves of plants, no?

Do you have any snails?


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## mechanical8dragon

yeah i just rub em off when i do WC's.

and nope, no snails. I've been iffy about them cus I heard many other than a certain few will eat your plants to shreds. I know they clean up the decaying leaves and such, but I've heard others are really bad. I wouldn't mind snails, its just I'd have to know which ones to stay away from so I don't end up with holey plants.


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## jaysee

MTS are great for your plants. They're great for every tank, plants or not, sand or gravel. You can get them for free at petsmart. They will not eat your plants.

I don't believe pond snails do either, but I don't know for sure. The only other "pest" snail is the ramshorn, and I don't know about them. Aside from them ther are also rabbit snails, mystery snails and nerites.

Not having plants I can't tell you which of those will or won't eat which plants, if any.


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## mechanical8dragon

really? free? o-o ooooooo.... but.. i don't think I've ever seen MTS at my petsmart. unless I passedd over them. idk I'll ask next time i go in for crickets for my geckos.


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## jaysee

They are cone shaped snails. You only need a few to make a colony.


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## mechanical8dragon

well only 5 Harly's left. The one I thought I saved i think was the one that died a few days later. He hung on though, tough little bugger. I decided to treat with Pimafix AND Melafix simultaneous in hopes of possibly knocking out 2 birds with one stone should it turn out not to be a fungal infection but a bacterial. They said they were safe to use with other API products and after almost a full week of treating I've yet to see any problems. I thought it was going to turn my tank into a medical bubble bath when i first dosed it. All those bubbles haha. If my harly's do survive though I'm not sure what I'll do. I don't know... i might... try to see if someone wants them on craigslist for free after a month has gone by without anymore deaths. Because I found some fish on a site I'm curious if they'd work @[email protected] like they had rummy nose tetras.... dear god I love them.


There's a person on aquabid selling.. 10 i believe it was, MTS with FREE SHIPPING. all for 12$.... I'm really tempted but idk if I should get them now with my tank still funky or not o-o


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