# 400 Gallon Reef Tank Fish List



## tobes3

Hi everyone, this is my fish list:

1	Blue Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus)
1	Powder Blue Tang
1	Yellow Tang
1	Sohal Tang
1	Desjardini Sailfin Tang
1	Purple Tang
1	Six Line Wrasse
1	McCosker’s Flasher Wrasse, Male
1	White Spotted Tamarin Wrasse
1	Green Manderin
1	Blue Dot Jawfish
1	Orange Stripe Prawn Goby
1	Painted Spiny Blue Lobster (Panulirus vesicolor)
1	Moorish Idol
1	Copperband Butterflyfish
1	Bright Red Sea Star
6	Blue/Green Reef Chromis
4	Bartlett's Anthias
4	Lyretail Anthias (1x Male, 3x Female)

I just want to get peoples opinion on what order these fish should be introduced. Thanks!


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## Pasfur

The Copperband Butterfly should be introduced before the Tangs, as should the Moorish Idol. The Sohal Tang should be introduced last. Otherwise, you can pretty much do whatever you want with this list.

Give some details of your setup and we can help a lot further. 400 gallons! wow.


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## tobes3

Thanks. Should I maybe add 3 fish a week or so?


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## fish5

I have no idea what order they should be put in but I just looked at all of those fish on google images and they all look soooo cool. Especially the green mandarin. Really cool fish


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## Pasfur

tobes3 said:


> Thanks. Should I maybe add 3 fish a week or so?


Ahhh..... you just asked a question that you did not know you asked!

The answer is no. Because you NEED to have a quarantine tank and all fish need to be quarantined for 3 weeks or longer prior to being added to the display. Depending on the size of your Q tank, you may be able to quarantine more than one fish at a time. However, a Q tank is not an option, it is necessary for success.


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## Cody

1) Fine.
2) I am no expert with tangs, but I thought I read somewhere that you cannot keep two species of tangs that are similar of size in a tank with each other. That may bee small tanks, though. All tanks are small for tangs if you really want to get into it.
3) Fine.
4) Fine.
5) Fine.
6) See #2
7) Fine. Mystery wrasses are better. 
8) I love wrasses.
9) Again.
10) Good luck. I wouldn't. Make sure it eats frozen before you get one, and that the tank is 12+ months old.
11) I love YSJF.
12) Fine.
13) No.
14) This is the hardest fish to keep in a home aquarium. Don't do it.
15) Risky with a lot of corals.
16) Fine.
17) They will kill each other. Enough said.
18)  I love Anthias
19) Again.


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## onefish2fish

i wanted to also comment on the idol.

by far a beautiful fish but i think its difficulty passes its beauty IMO. i have read statistics somewhere of documented deaths and off the top of my head ill just make up numbers so you get the idea but these are not exact ( nor im sure the ones i read were because of un-charted deaths but you get the idea )
idols keep alive for:
a few days: 3,500
a week: 4,000
a month: 5,000
a few months: 2,000
a year: 200
greater then 5 years: 30

again, numbers were made up but it was along those lines. notice how the numbers climb within a few months then drop. i doubt this is because they are living and not dying but rather dying fast and no one can keep them to claim "success" 
at the very least please invest much more research on the fishes care before even considering this fish.


if you like the look of an idol, check out long finned banner fish.


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## tobes3

What size quarantine tank would you recommend? Also, why not the spiny blue lobster? Yeah, yeah.... I'm aware of the Moorish Idol's history, but I've done lots of research and will feed it endless things until it eats.


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## onefish2fish

tobes3 said:


> will feed it endless things until it eats.


this doesnt guarentee the fish will eat any of the foods you offer, and the only person ive heard of keeping this fish for a decent ammount of time has a i believe 1,000 gallon display, as well as a seperate tank to grow sponges.


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## Pasfur

The size of quarantine depends on what you can handle. I use a 38 gallon Q tank for my 180 display tank. I think the fish acclimate to captive life easier when you give them space to swim, and the 38 accomplishes this goal. You may even consider using 2 Q tanks, so that you can add fish to your system at a greater pace.

By the way, on the subject of the Morish Idol, I will tell you that this fish is not only difficult, it is statistically impossible to keep alive in home aquariums. By purchasing this species, you are putting all of your other livestock at risk, as the Morish Idol is extremely prone to disease and infection. Even if you get past the Q stage, and have this fish in your display, you have almost no hope of keeping it alive. However, if you are determined, stubborn, pigheaded, etc,  then at least purchase an individual collected out of Hawaii, as these seem to adjust best.


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## tobes3

Pasfur said:


> The size of quarantine depends on what you can handle. I use a 38 gallon Q tank for my 180 display tank.


I guess I won't get the moorish idol then. would a red sea max 130d (34 gallons) be alright for a quarantine?


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## Pasfur

A 34 gallon Q tank would be great. This gives you space to quarantine 2 fish at the same time. If you do, just make certain to add them at the same time and quarantine both for the 3 week period.


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## Cody

Why would you get a $500 tank for a quarantine? Just get a standard 29G.


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## tobes3

Yeah, but it'll be in a separate room so going with the rsm just means i don't have to buy everything else for it, once i have used it for quarantine i can use it as a refugium or frag tank... 

I thought the goal with quarantine was to keep stressed fish away from other fish because they are more susceptible to diseases, won't putting 2 fish in contradict that? And why 3 weeks?


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## tobes3

Won't I be able to add the first fish in the main tank since it will have no fish in it already?

Sorry for all the questions, i am new.....


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## Pasfur

tobes3 said:


> I thought the goal with quarantine was to keep stressed fish away from other fish because they are more susceptible to diseases, won't putting 2 fish in contradict that? And why 3 weeks?


The primary goal with a quarantine is to allow a 3 week observation period, so that any parasites which are present on the fish have the opportunity to grow large enough to be seen with the naked eye. Anything less than 3 weeks and you are taking a risk that there are parasites present which have not exposed themselves for you to see.

I also agree that isolating a stressed fish from the display is important to allow the fish time to settle into captive life. This means learning the feeding schedule and foods provided, and being allowed a quite area away from the established pecking order of a display. I have never had issues adding 2 fish to a Q tank at the same time, probably because both fish are in a new environment. A pecking order does not come into play.

I would quarantine even the first fish. Why? Lets say you add the fish to the display, only to later see that this fish has ich. Ich can take a couple of weeks to be visible, so this is very possible, and occurs on a frequent basis in this hobby. So, you have now introduced ich into your display. Research is inconclusive on how long it takes to be "ich-free", but most of the recent reports suggest than an aquarium needs to show no signs of ich for 90 days if you want to be 100% certain the parasites will not reinfect the fish. 90 days. Plus, you have to decide how to treat a fish for ich in an aquarium with live rock and inverts. So, by placing a fish into quarantine for 3 weeks, you are elminating a lot of potential hassle.

One thing we have not discussed is a UV STerilizer. This is an optional piece of equipment that probably only 10-20% of us use. I am, however, an extremely big believer in a UV. The UV kills most disease causing pathogens, helping to prevent the spread of disease from one fish to another. I run a UV on my display tanks, including reef. I am such a believer that I would not run a marine system without one. I also spot treat my quarantine for a few days following the removal of livestock. You can buy a UV online for about $100, including bulb.


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## tobes3

The display tank will have a heater/chiller/uv sterilizer in one teco unit. Could you recommend any good marine plants to grow once all the fish have been added? Ones that I can harvest to feed the tangs and other fish.


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## Pasfur

I have never grown macroalgae's. OF2F, any input?


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## tobes3

I do already have an empty 10 gallon tank, will that be big enough for a quarantine?


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## tobes3

Also, will a 50% water change every month be good, is this a lot or not much water changing?


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## onefish2fish

a 50% water change is to large of a change. i personally only do about 5 or so gallons on my tank and we'll say its about a 100 gallon total water volum which is only a 5-10% change. you would be better off doing a few smaller water changes more frequent then to do less often larger changes.
infact, if you properly setup your tank, you shouldnt have to perform a water change to remove nitrates but to rather only replenish trace elements that have been consumed in your tank. this is benificial to both corals and fish. 

as for macro algaes, is there a reason you wish to grow your own? if your looking for a cheap way to feed the tangs, asian food stores sell like 50 sheet seaweed packs cheap ( the kind they use for sushi ) which your tangs shouldnt have a problem eating. if your going to grow a macro algae, i suggest just doing chaeto in your refugium for nutrient absorbing. 

as for the moorish idol, look into long fin banner fish as they have a similiar look. 
as for the red sea max as a QT, ofcourse it will work but it wont be much of a "display" for another room while being use as a QT. the tank is best bare bottom, with a few peices of PVC pipe for hiding so it wont be very pretty to look at. its also best to put it in a low traffic area as to not stress out the fish.


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## Pasfur

I agree with OF2F on the water changes. I usually use the alkalinity & calcium tests as a good indicator of when my systems are in need of a water change. If alkalinity is low and calcium is normal to high, then I see that as an indicator that there is a trace element deficiency. At this point, i might change 5% of the water. It is rare that I ever change more than 10% in a single month, except for on my Q tank.

In fact, my 180 has been running for 4 months and I just mixed up my first 5 gallon batch of water for a 2% water change tomorrow. I will probably change 5 gallons every other week, depending on test results.


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## onefish2fish

+1 back at ya.


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## tobes3

Thanks for the help everyone! Just one more question, what should the GPH be on a 202 gallon tank? This is for a tank in the office. I plan to keep sps, clams, lps, softies...etc


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## SuperFishFan

My main concern is how most of those Tang species are gonna get along. I guess considering the size of the tank (dependiing on the size of the fish initially) you should be fine, but most of those Tang species are very territorial towards each other mostly (particularly the Soh, IME). I agree that the Copperband and especially the Moorish Idol should be allowed first dibs in the tank in regards to all the middle and top column species.

Sounds like you're gonna have a lot of fun introducing your community.


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## SuperFishFan

Pasfur said:


> Ahhh..... you just asked a question that you did not know you asked!
> 
> However, a Q tank is not an option, it is necessary for success.


 
OR, only deal with a Fish dealer that you have dealt with for a long time and have absolute faith that they have had the fish for a little while, and have maintained a progress report on the fish since its introduction into the shops tank (did I say that right? lol). Anyway, I don't have any quarantine tanks at all and I've been a hobbyist for years (but then again, when I have my eye on a fish that I want to purchase, that is new to the dealers that I frequent, I will put a small deposit on the fish, and watch it at the shop for about a week or two [health-wise, eating habits, etc.] and then after that time, I will purchase the fish and introduce it to my community). 

So I guess that constitutes a quarantine scenario.:wink2:


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## Pasfur

SuperFishFan said:


> OR, only deal with a Fish dealer that you have dealt with for a long time and have absolute faith that they have had the fish for a little while, and have maintained a progress report on the fish since its introduction into the shops tank (did I say that right? lol). Anyway, I don't have any quarantine tanks at all and I've been a hobbyist for years (but then again, when I have my eye on a fish that I want to purchase, that is new to the dealers that I frequent, I will put a small deposit on the fish, and watch it at the shop for about a week or two [health-wise, eating habits, etc.] and then after that time, I will purchase the fish and introduce it to my community).
> 
> So I guess that constitutes a quarantine scenario.:wink2:


This approach is very possible for someone with a lot of experience in this hobby and a keen eye for selecting healthy fish. For the everyday hobbyist, a quarantine tank is essential.

By the way, welcome to the forum. If you get a chance, you should post some pictures of your tanks in the "Pictures & Videos" area.


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## SuperFishFan

Pasfur said:


> This approach is very possible for someone with a lot of experience in this hobby and a keen eye for selecting healthy fish. For the everyday hobbyist, a quarantine tank is essential.
> 
> By the way, welcome to the forum. If you get a chance, you should post some pictures of your tanks in the "Pictures & Videos" area.


 That makes sense. ;-) 

I am looking to post some pics asap. Gotta get the stupid link cable to my camera, then I'll post em. Older camera with no SD card . Thanks for the welcome!


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