# Need help..I'm a newbee



## gforce

I noticed this morning that my clown fish had these white like dots on him looked like mini white cotton balls or something.. Is this real bad and if so what kind of Medz should I use to cure it..


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## SKAustin

First, I need to know a bit more about your tank. The appropriate methods for curing a problem vary greatly depending on your livestock and other considerations.

Please Read this: http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1802

in the meantime, try to obtain a photo of your fish and/or google "Marine Ich" and see if that looks like your problem.

If you have any corals or other inverts (snails, crabs, ect) in the tank, you may need to invest in a 10 gallon quarantine tank.

If your fish does in fact have marine ich, you may also want to add a UV Sterilizer for a few weeks. this will kill off the ich

Regardless of the problem, you MUST seek out the cause of the problem and correct that. If you have marine Ich, it is because your fish is stressed that it suffers from this problem. Ich is ever present in most aquariums, fresh and salt alike. A stressed fish enables the parasite to host. This is true with most fungal infections as well, a healthy fish has a slime coating that protects the fish from such problems.


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## bettababy

Great advice, and I will also watch this thread and offer any help/suggestions that may be needed. Until we know the details of your tank, there isn't much anyone can do.


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## gforce

It is a 12g nano tank everything is built in..Tank has been running for about a month now, just got the fish 3 days ago.. He looks like he's ok and happy and he still eats... I think when my wife got him she said he looked like he had the little white cotton balls on him..
water temp 82
ph 8.2
no2 0ppm
ammonia 0ppm
no3 0ppm to 5.0ppm 
Hope the is enough information..
Thanks


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## bettababy

The water params look ok, the temp is a bit high for standard keeping of a clown fish, but if this is an outbreak of ick, that will help to speed up the life cycle of the parasite.
Is there anyway to post pictures of your fish? White cottony things doesn't sound like ick, it sounds like a fungal infection, which could also be feeding on a bacterial infection. 
The first mistake is in purchasing a sick fish in the first place, and I would highly suggest calling the store where it was purchased and asking what they plan to do to help you with it. Unfortunately, most places won't offer any help, they expect the customer to recognize and not choose sick animals. You might try pointing out that it is bad business to sell a sick animal and then abandon the customer. Some stores will offer to take a fish back, some will help you with medications, water testing, etc until its well... 

Are there any other animals in this tank? What kind of substrate is in the tank? How much live rock and decoration? I'll need to know as much about your fish and your tank as possible to figure out what exactly the problem is and then how best to treat it. If there are other animals in the tank, I would highly suggest using a quarantine tank. Things like inverts (corals, shrimp, crabs, snails, etc) are very sensitive to meds used to treat fish illness, and its very easy to wipe out a healthy tank with 1 sick animal and the meds it needs to get well.

I will watch this thread closely and offer any/all help I can. In the future, you may want to advise your wife to not purchase sick animals, and teach her what to look for so she can recognize it. If you need help on how to spot signs of illness before purchase, let me know and I can make you a list of things to look for.


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## gforce

Thanks for all the help. I went back to the pet store and saw that the tank my wife purchased the clown fish from was being treated with medz.. I can't remember what the guy was using but he said it was like tetra something medz.. I'll have to call back..

As far as what we have in the tank is just that clown and a small little hermit crab that we caught at the beach. we have some small coral rocks and some fake anenemies. Thats what I was told that clow fish like, So they can hide behind them...


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## bettababy

Let me know what the meds turn out to be, I can probably figure a pretty accurate guess of what they were treating for once I know what's in the medication. You might also want to ask (and write down a list) for the active ingredients in the med they are using.

Lesson learned... never buy a sick fish.

Can you post any pics of the fish and the crab? I'm curious about the crab because some "tiny" crabs can grow into large carnivorous crabs... and I'd hate to hear from you in 6 months to find out it ate your fish! If I have a pic and know where you picked it up, I can probably identify it for you pretty easily.

Oh, and btw, the meds will likely kill a crab... you may want to consider a way to seperate them during treatment. I can help you create a small environment for the crab that would sustain it for up to about a wk to allow your med treatment in the main tank. If you need it, let me know.


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## gforce

bettababy said:


> Let me know what the meds turn out to be, I can probably figure a pretty accurate guess of what they were treating for once I know what's in the medication. You might also want to ask (and write down a list) for the active ingredients in the med they are using.
> 
> Lesson learned... never buy a sick fish.
> 
> Can you post any pics of the fish and the crab? I'm curious about the crab because some "tiny" crabs can grow into large carnivorous crabs... and I'd hate to hear from you in 6 months to find out it ate your fish! If I have a pic and know where you picked it up, I can probably identify it for you pretty easily.
> 
> Oh, and btw, the meds will likely kill a crab... you may want to consider a way to seperate them during treatment. I can help you create a small environment for the crab that would sustain it for up to about a wk to allow your med treatment in the main tank. If you need it, let me know.


Here is a Picture of the crab you wanted to see and the pic of the clown fish... The pic of the clown fish isn't of the best of quality but if you look good you can see the big spot under his eye's


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## gforce

Oh yeah, forgot to ask what that little crab eats?? I've been trying to feed him flakes but i guess he dont like it..


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## bettababy

I'll have to do some research to identify that crab before I can tell you what it eats. Chances are it will be a scavenger, eating things that fall to the bottom.
I see one issue with the crab... the substrate. Is that crushed coral or gravel at the bottom? Without a sandbed, the crab may have a very difficult time getting to his food... being used to eating things that fall to the bottom. 
With such a coarse substrate, anything that falls to the bottom will end up burried beneath the rock that is too heavy for the crab to move or dig into. I would strongly suggest if you are planning to work with reef animals that you consider replacing your substrate with live sand instead. Other inverts such as shrimp, crabs, anemones, starfish, etc are not going to be able to survive in such a coarse substrate, plus there is a lot of biological benefit to using live sand. It will keep things like cyano bacteria blooms (a maroon velevt that can take over and suffocate anything beneath it, including corals and anything on the rock). Cyano blooms can be very difficult to get rid of once they start.

As for the clownfish, the picture is not clear enough to really be able to see much. I will ask for you to keep trying, 1 good closer up picture, clear enough to see what is wrong, should be enough to offer some help. 
Watch your water params! A sick fish needs really clean water to promote healing. Offer healthy food choices, but not too much at once. Things like brine shrimp (either live or frozen... make sure to completely thaw frozen foods for at least 15 - 20 minutes before feeding), mysis shrimp, Spectrum pellets, formula 1 frozen food... all an important part of the fish's diet. Offer a different food at each feeding, no more than once/day and what the fish can finish in about 1 - 2 minutes. Don't leave a lot of uneaten food at the bottom for the crab, as you don't want the added waste levels. Chances are you won't get every last bit of extra food out, so the crab should be able to find something to eat once the right kind of food is found. I have found marine flake food to be quite messy and not often eaten well by the fish. The spectrum pellet food would make for a better constant diet, just a few pellets at a time until the fish is full or over the course about about 2 minutes. 

I will consult my books and see what I can find out for you about the crab. It appears to be a species of hermit... where was it found and picked up from?


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## gforce

The hermit crab I found was at a local beach in hawaii.. My son wanted one plus the clown fish since little nemo is his favorite move..

as for the tank I noticed that my ammonia when up a little. New readings.
temp 82
salinity 1.024 to 1.025
ph 8.2
nitrate 0ppm to 5ppm
nitrite 0ppm
ammonia 0.50

I think i was over feeding.. any suggestions?


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## bettababy

Ok, I found your hermit crab. It's called the hawaiian zebra hermit, and they are great scavengers and algae eaters, but also quite aggressive with any other crabs or shrimp in the tank. If the only things you're keeping in this tank is the 1 clown and the 1 hermit, I don't see where there would be any issues. 
With such a coarse substrate, its going to have a very difficult time in finding food. The large claw is used for a number of purposes, such as displaying during mating, protection by blocking the opening of its shell from predators, etc, but it is not used for feeding. You will probably not really see it eat, even if you watch. Being primarily an algae eater and scavenger it relies on dropped food from the other fish to feed... if that food drops into the substrate showing in the picture it will fall between the pebbles where the crab won't have access to it. I would strongly suggest changing over to a sand bed. If you need help on how easiest and safest to do this, let me know and I can talk you through it. It really isn't such a hard thing 

As for your clown fish... I asked my husband to take a look at your picture, and he is thinking either hexamita or lymphocystis. If it's hexamita, it will look almost like a small white protrustion sticking out of a hole in the fish's body. Think of toothpaste coming out of a tube. If it's lymphocystis, it will look like cottage cheese stuck to the fish. Lymphocystis is a viral infection and the only cure I'm aware of is the stings of a condylactis anemone. (yes, you could add one to that tank if you replace the substrate with sand). Only the condylactus anemone is known for helping to cure lymphocystis, and most other anemones will be too large for a 12 gallon nano. If it's hexamita, metronidazole can be used to coat the food while carbon is running in the filter. This will allow the clown to eat the medication without treating the whole tank, which would kill the crab and any other inverts in there. 
If you're planning to keep saltwater with inverts and fish, it's a good idea to get a 10 gallon tank to use for quarantine in case a fish needs treatment. Medications will wipe out an invert population very very fast, which will also pollute the tank and make the situation worse and more difficult to clean up afterwards.

Here is a link I found with accurate information about your crab: http://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_1...ml?PHPSESSID=ed6cb1463ddaed3cc50c5cc3364e7d07

I hope this helps!


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## gforce

Wow, thank for all the help.. I wanted to change it to sand can you show me the easiest way to do that..[/i]


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## bettababy

Get yourself a couple of fish safe buckets (never had chemicals or cleaners in them... most hardware stores sell them in 3 & 6 gallon sizes for cheap). Rinse the buckets good with just water. Using a siphon hose (just a plain gravel vac hose long enough to reach easily from tank to bucket without a lot of extra). Do a siphon, getting the hose directly into your gravel bed, sucking all of the gravel into the bucket. When the bucket is 1/2 full of water, stop, pour the water back into the tank, leaving the gravel in the bucket. Continue until all of the gravel has been siphoned into the buckets.
Get yourself a bag of live sand (have this read when you take out the gravel) and open 1/3 of the top of hte bag. Pour off any water that may have settled in the bag, then pour sand into the tank. When putting the sand into the tank the water will get cloudy, let it settle on its own, it won't hurt your animals. Pour all of the sand in one place, then use your hand to push it around the base pieces of rock to anchor them and cover the bottom of the tank. If you need any water to top off the tank, do that after the sand is in the tank. Let the tank sit with everything running as normal, it should clear within 24 - 48 hrs. Once clear you can move things around to slope your substrate, better anchor any rock, etc. 

In that size of a tank you should be able to do this in about 30 minutes, at most. The last one changed over was a 72 bowfront, and it took about 1 hr. If the substrate you are removing is crushed coral, cap the bucket(s) and use the coral to add in a pouch to your filter to help mainatin a good calcium level. Over time the coral will break down, simply add more to the pouch. This way the crushed coral isn't wasted.

Let me know if you need more help!


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## SKAustin

If I might add to what Dawn provided about adding the sand, If you plan on using Aragonite sand, I would highly recommend rinsing the sand thouroughly before adding it to the tank. Cloudiness from Aragonite sand will settle onto the glass and can become very difficult to clean if it sits there for any length of time.

Take the sand, a few cups at a time, in a 5 gallon pail, run water into the pail, stir the sand by hand while the water overflows from the bucket. Continue this until the water runs clear.


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## gforce

Thanks for all the help. I also had a question about the water levels in my tank, its reading kind of high. How much water changes a week do you think I should do to get levels back to normal? 
Thanks


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## bettababy

Please do *not* rinse live sand before putting it into the tank. The whole purpose behind it is the bacteria culture already alive in the bag. If you rinse this with clean water you will destroy the bacteria culture, which defeats the biggest purpose in using it. 
The sand I was referring to is called AragAlive and it's put out by Carib Sea. It is bagged wet, should not be rinsed, and the cloudy water will clear in about 24 hrs with little to no residue on the glass. If you notice any on the glass, it's easily wiped out with either your hand or a fish safe scrubbie pad.

The benefits of the live sand far outweigh the few minutes it may tank to wipe a bit of residue from the glass.


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## gforce

So, I think it’s that lymphocystis virus because it looks sorta like cottage cheese on him but it looks like it went away a little but you said the only real cure is if I get anemones. I could do that plus I wanted to get sand in the tanks I think it looks a lot better with live rock and anemones but can it be done with such a small tank, My 12G nano cube? I’ve seen it before in the local pet stores. Can the clown still survive with that virus or is something that is highly contagious? 
Thanks for all the help.


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## SKAustin

bettababy said:


> Please do *not* rinse live sand before putting it into the tank.


No, you misunderstand my intent. I'm referring to plain Aragonite sand, NOT Live sand. Obviously rinsing live sand would defeat its purpose. 

Personally, I think packaged "Live" sand is a waste of money. If you are looking to speed up the process of seeding new substrate, Try adding some sand from a friends established SW system to plain aragonite sand. It will add to the biodiversity of your substrate, and save a bit from your purse..


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## gforce

Well, Scratch getting the live rock and stuff. Local law prohibits you taking or even selling live organisms from the ocean. I thought it would be illegal to take something straight from the ocean but I thought it wouldn’t be illegal to sell something in a store that wasn’t from Hawaii. I had no idea about this because I was in California for the past 5 years . this blows.. :x


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## SKAustin

What about Buying? Is is prohibited to buy from internet suppliers? 

Id wager that if it's illegal to sell, then it's probably also unlawful to posess as well. I can see the reasoning since Hawaii's oceans are capable of sustaining reef life, and inroducing life forms alien to the reefs of hawaii can have devestating repercussions.


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## bettababy

The bagged live sand is not a waste of money, and I have used enough of that and the dry sands in various different situations to see a real difference. The AragAlive sand is put out by Carib Sea and is available on the internet, and deliverable to both California and Hawaii. Try checking Dr Fosters & Smith website, they carry most of that stuff.
http://drsfostersmith.com

Taking rock or sand from the ocean is not a good idea even if it were allowed. Pollution levels are so high... and some of those types of pollution are not things you can remove from an aquarium once it is contaminated. To obtain something that is safe enough to use in an aquarium you would have to go at least 10 - 20 miles out to open sea to find it.


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## gforce

I called up one of the LFS and asked if they had LR for sale and she told me it was illegal to sell it too I wonder if you ordered it online , would that be illegal to do that?


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## bettababy

where are you located that nobody can sell you live rock? Maybe if we knew for sure where you are now we could help more...


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## gforce

I live in honolulu, Hawaii.. :lol:


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