# Fluval Edge 6 gal?



## Toallhisdoom

Hey guys, i have a green tree python that i paid $350 for and was looking to rehome it, a friend has a fluval edge 6 gallon salt water tank he has had going for a while. He said he has upgraded the lights with 2 led light strips. And the actual lights converted to LEDs. He said he would trade me the tank and $75 dollars for my snake. The tank comes all set up with heater and a current maker, 3 live rocks, rose bubble sea anemones, sea urchin, 2 clown fish, star fish, and a bunch of supplys. Is this a decent setup? How easy will it be to maintain? If you know anything about snakes a green tree python is one of the most demanding to take care of so i am capable of handaling things. Also i have a 35gal fresh water cichlid tank. 

I have never had a salt water tank and am starting my research before we do the trade. What should i look into? Do i have to hand feed the anenomes as a friend told me? how complicated is all this? 

and is a fluval edge a decent tank? I just want something small that looks nice to put in my room. I am not overly concerned with the size or amount of fish that i can put in it. I would be content with just 2-3 fish. And maybe some snails to control the alge. 

thanks guy! 

BTW my names colton! This is my first post. Thanks!


----------



## Toallhisdoom

He said the tank has been established for a year. And does the tank look healthy from the pics? Compaired to my fresh water tank there is a lot of algae but i have a cat fish and a sucker fish so the tank stays pretty much spotless with the 2 of them. And i know with salt water you get more algae growth.


----------



## onefish2fish

it looks like green hair algae and aiptasia to me in there. the 2 clowns is your absolute max for fish in that size tank and thats even pushing it. the starfish, do we know what kind? its prob. going to slowly die from starving to death.
these tanks are so small its really only fitting for a few shrimp and maybe a clown goby if that. 

keep in mind the smaller the saltwater tank, the harder it is to care for.

welcome to the forum.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Yea he just told me they were aptasia, and that the star fish were not purchased they just came out of the live rock. So as long as i just don't add any more fish it should be alright? I mean they have been fine for a year so as long as i do not change anything i can assume it would be ok?


----------



## Toallhisdoom

i have several 15 gal tanks, and 20 gal tanks, and even a 55 gal tank i have a snake in. Would i be better off just making one of those into a salt water tank? Really am just trying to figure out what to do here. I have always wanted a salt water tank, but am just not sure what the best way to go is. 

Any advice is appreciated! 

Thanks!


----------



## Nubster

I'd personally skip the trade. A 6 gal SW tank is not really the best thing to start off with. Doable but a lot more work than a larger tank. 

If you are interested in trying SW and you are willing to get rid of the snake, see if you can sell it for $300+. With some frugal shopping you could probably do a pretty simple FOWLR setup for about $300. Maybe a 20g which would be a bit more stable than a 6g. You could save up and add some corals later.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

onefish2fish said:


> it looks like green hair algae and aiptasia to me in there. the 2 clowns is your absolute max for fish in that size tank and thats even pushing it. the starfish, do we know what kind? its prob. going to slowly die from starving to death.
> these tanks are so small its really only fitting for a few shrimp and maybe a clown goby if that.
> 
> keep in mind the smaller the saltwater tank, the harder it is to care for.
> 
> welcome to the forum.


I just googled green hair algae, apparently it is a bad thing! lol so that should scare me away form this tank right? I mean i was reading you can get rid of it but is it worth trying? Should i just start my own tank? Is there a good sticky on here about starting up a small like 20 gal? or 55 gal tank?


----------



## Nubster

Opps, you posted while I was typing. Yeah, the 20g would make a decent tank, the 55 even better but of course the cost would go up in setup and upkeep quite a bit.


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> I just googled green hair algae, apparently it is a bad thing! lol so that should scare me away form this tank right? I mean i was reading you can get rid of it but is it worth trying? Should i just start my own tank? Is there a good sticky on here about starting up a small like 20 gal? or 55 gal tank?


The aiptasia are bad too and can be difficult to get ride of. They spread rapidly and sting fish causing stress and death. That 6g tank will have you in the hole before you even start.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

yikes ok! so deff not gonna do that. Any good links 2 a start up thread? With my 35 gal hexagon cichlid tank i have an under tank filter, its meant for up to 75 gal tank. It a fluval i believe. It has 2 filters, then 3 trays for carbon and cubes. Would this be a good filter to use for my 55 gal with salt water? I know it works for salt as that was what the tank originally was before my aunt and uncle gave it to me. I just figure i have another filter that hangs off the back and is a waterfall type i could use for the 35, and take the big heavy duty filter and use it for salt water.


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> Is there a good sticky on here about starting up a small like 20 gal? or 55 gal tank?


It's not terribly hard. You need the tank, lights (T5HO with actinic bulbs), powerheads because SW tanks need lots of water movement, a HOB filter like an AC110, salt, RO/distilled water, base rock, live rock. Put it all together and you have a SW tank. Obviously a bit more to it than that but that's the basic idea.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

In my cichlid tank i have a fluval 405 external canister filter, Amazon.com: Fluval 405 External Canister Filter - 110V, 340 gallons per hour: Pet Supplies, i have a power head( will have to look at what brand tonight) and a tank. So basically all i would need is a hood with lights(does it have to be a certain fixture? or just certain bulb?), salt, water, base rock, and live rock, and fish of course. Now whats all this i hear about protein skimmers? And sump tanks? and all that? Is that not necessary for a 55 gal?


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Where would you recommend getting the live rock? There are a couple good salt water stores around where i live but it seems that i will need a lot of live rock. Are there any good online places with high quality rock? Also what substrate should i use for the bottom?


----------



## Nubster

You need lots of water movement...like 20x turn over. I had two 240gph powerheads and an AC110 (listed as 500gph) on my 10g nano tank just to give you an idea. 

If you have corals or plan to get them in the future you need high light like from a T5HO or MH. Otherwise, if fish only, normal output is fine. The blue bulbs bring out the best colors and is needed for corals. 

If you keep up with water changes you can get by without a protein skimmer. What that does is removes dissolved organics from the water helping to keep it cleaner.

Sumps are generally used to add water volume to help make for a more stable tank. There are pros and cons to using them. They are not needed though. But again, you need to keep up with the upkeep of the tank.

When it comes to rock, the more the better. The rock houses the needed bacteria as well as loads of critters that keep your tank health and provide food for the fish. The more live rock you can afford to buy, the better. But if you can only afford a little bit, make sure you at least load the tank with base rock which is dead or dried up live rock. You'd be amazed at what kinda stuff you'll see in your live rock if you sit in front of the tank and just watch. There are some really good online places to order live rock. There are actually live rock "farms" down in FL. That is where I would buy from...all the benefits of live rock but they are sinking huge piles of rock and letting it become live, then they harvest it. That way the natural live rock is left alone helping to preserve the coral reefs.


----------



## Nubster

Substrate, I'd use sand, but you have to be careful what kind you use. It's not the same as FW tanks. You have to be careful using sand that has silcates in it or otherwise you will be plagued with brown algae.

I have used this place before...really nice stuff...I won't say it's the best but check it out...

Live Rock - Tampa Bay Saltwater Aquacultured Live Rock

Do a search for Aquacultured Live Rock. I highly recommend using the aquacultured stuff. Like I said, if you get a bunch of base rock you can then seed with a little bit of live rock and over time it will all become live. Just get as much live rock as you can. In a 55g tank you are looking at probably a couple hundred pounds of rock...you do need a lot...not just a few rocks like a lot of people think.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

wow! so i read at minimum 1lb of live rock per gallon! man that must be expensive. lol So i will also probably need another power head. I will have to look at the specs of the one i have. And does that filter sound like a decent one for a 55 gal tank?


----------



## Nubster

Yeah, the filter is just like the filter for FW. You need it to pull stuff out of the water. The bigger the better just because you want a lot of movement. In the neighborhood of 20x turn over which for a 55g tank you are looking at 1100gph. You want the movement as random and bouncing around as you can, you are trying to simulate currents and waves of the ocean. Like I said, I had an AC70 (I mistakenly said AC110 in the post above this one) and two 240gph Koralia nanos on my 10g tank. That is 780gph in a 10g tank. Majority of the biofiltration is in the live rock. That is one reason you want so much. Expect to pay $3-$4 per pound for live rock and half as much for base rock. You will probably need a few hundred dollars in rock for a 55g tank to start. Thats LR mixed with base rock. It would be much cheaper to maybe start with the 20g tank. You'll just have to be more careful with keeping it up since it will be a lot less stable.

My old 10g when I first started it up to show how much rock needs packed in there.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> wow! so i read at minimum 1lb of live rock per gallon! man that must be expensive. lol So i will also probably need another power head. I will have to look at the specs of the one i have. And does that filter sound like a decent one for a 55 gal tank?


You don't need all Live Rock, you can use Dry Rock and just a small piece of Live Rock to seed your Dry Rock.
Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhickers onLive Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way oyu go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.
Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter)Multiple Powerheads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph powerheads.
Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume
Saltwater Test Kits. Reef Test Kit. Tets for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.
Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish.
Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one
Rubber kitchen gloves
Fish net
Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets
Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best.
Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock.
Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.
Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.
Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank
Heater rated for your size tank.
Saltwater Mix. 
Marine SaltSaltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurateAquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, etc.)
Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed cora. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Woah that looks cool! So ok i am not going to start with the 55 gallon as that is a huge investment. I think either a 10 or 20 gallon to start to "get my foot in the door" and get some experience under my belt. 


Wow guys thanks for all the great advice!


----------



## Nubster

I'd do the 20g or if you can, get a 29g tank. They make great smaller SW tanks and the extra 9 gallons will help with stability. A 29g tank would be a great size for a couple clowns and maybe a goby of some sort. Stocking levels are out out the window when you compare FW to SW. A lot less fish in SW to maintain a healthy tank.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Don't know where you live but there is a great 30g long tank that would be an awesome starter because of its length.
SeaClear Rectangular 30 Gallon Show Aquarium Combos at PETCO


----------



## Toallhisdoom

That is nice! And not very expensive. 160$ is not bad at all! Would that light fixture on it support the required bulbs for the live rock/coral? or would i have to replace that?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> That is nice! And not very expensive. 160$ is not bad at all! Would that light fixture on it support the required bulbs for the live rock/coral? or would i have to replace that?


 Live Rock and fish yes, Coral, no. You should look into a T-5 HO for that.
24" QUAD Aquarium T5 HO Light 96W Coral Fish LED NEW CE | eBay


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Would i need any other lights or just that T5? And wont a lot of water evaporate out of the system with an open lid?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Skimmer:
Reef Octopus Hang-on-the-Back Skimmer OCT-BH100 - English

Powerheads:
Water Pumps & Wavemakers: Hydor Koralia Nano 240 & 425


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> Would i need any other lights or just that T5? And wont a lot of water evaporate out of the system with an open lid?


 You need the open lid for good gas exchange. Only people who keep lids on their tanks have critters that will jump out. Other than that, no lid. You will get normal evap with that fixture. But, you filling with RO water, not saltwater. The only time you fill re-fill with saltwater is when your doing a water change.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> Would i need any other lights or just that T5? And wont a lot of water evaporate out of the system with an open lid?


No, those lights will allow you to keep anything in that tank. Clams, Anemones, SPS.


----------



## Reefing Madness

MarcoRocks Aquarium Products
Use in place of Live Rock


----------



## Reefing Madness

Premium Aquatics Salinity Refractometer - 3 yr warranty | eBay
Refractometer


----------



## Toallhisdoom

will snails crawl out opening in the lid? lol 

Ok here is my new official plan, i have a 35 gallon hexagon tank i keep my cichlids in now. It is a tall tank obviously. They usually stay towards the bottom so its stupid to have them in there. I have another 55 gal tank and a filter good enough for it. Going to change them over to the 55 gal tank. And use the 35 gal hexagon tank for my saltwater tank. My aunt and uncle gave me everything they had with their setup and they had it running for years with no problems until they got lazy and stopped doing water changes and other maintenance, like changing the filters, and the whole tank turned green. Probably an old bulb that turned to the red spectrum. They returned all their fish and gave me the tank. 

So 35 gal hexagon tank. It has a blue spectrum bulb in it now which i believe is correct for the tank.


----------



## Reefing Madness

No, the snails will not climb out of the top.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

So on that site u sent me there is a package. 5lbs live 50lbs dry. for like 150$ so that gives me a little over 1.5 lbs per gallon in the 35 gallon tank. Just to clarify, does the substrate figure into the rock to gallon equation?


----------



## Nubster

No. One pound sand per gallon...1-2 pounds rock per gallon.

Snails are like FW...they might come out above the water surface now and then but they aren't coming out of the tank.

Water, get an RO unit or be prepared to buy RO water or distilled water. You cannot use tap water in a SW tank. Some say you can but it's risky.

Lights, you may want to check exactly what you have and how old. Bad bulbs create algae factories.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

I just put the new bulb in. It was one that gave me but was new in package. So figure sand for 35 gallons and rock for 35 gallons. Ok cool. Thanks man this is great!


----------



## onefish2fish

check out marco rocks dry rock. its great quality stuff but you will need to seed it yourself. i believe they have a 40lb sand/40lb rock combo. next check out glass-holes overflows if your planning a sump. 
a 55 gallon seems like a great tank to start with but they are narrow and can be hard to place your rocks well. a 75 is the same length but a wider tank making it a better choice.

the best advice i can give you is to do your reading and research BEFORE buying ANYTHING. for now, i would read peoples tank threads and see how they did it. its also a great idea to search your area for a local reefing club.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Solid advice man. I am looking at as many different threads as i can. haha not planning on just jumping in anymore, i want to this right!


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> So on that site u sent me there is a package. 5lbs live 50lbs dry. for like 150$ so that gives me a little over 1.5 lbs per gallon in the 35 gallon tank. Just to clarify, does the substrate figure into the rock to gallon equation?


Yes, the rock equation is figured the same wether its all Live Rock or all Dry Rock, you still wan tthe same amount in there.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

So would the 50 dry 5 live be good? So then the live would seed the dry?


----------



## onefish2fish

live will seed the dry, but look into marcorocks.com, great quality rock IMO.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> So would the 50 dry 5 live be good? So then the live would seed the dry?


Bingo. You got it.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

sweet! and MarcoRocks Aquarium Products is where i found the $150 deal for the 50 dry 5 live! But would a 35 gal hexagon(tall) tank be good? I am reading the setting up a fowlr tank now. When it says fish only? what does that mean? like no snails? or plants besides rocks?


----------



## Reefing Madness

onefish2fish said:


> live will seed the dry, but look into marcorocks.com, great quality rock IMO.


I gave himn the link Fish, I think thats the rock he is refering to.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> sweet! and MarcoRocks Aquarium Products is where i found the $150 deal for the 50 dry 5 live! But would a 35 gal hexagon(tall) tank be good? I am reading the setting up a fowlr tank now. When it says fish only? what does that mean? like no snails? or plants besides rocks?


Just means no corals. You can have plants, crabs, snails and such.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

What happens when you add corals?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> What happens when you add corals?[/QUTE]
> 
> Water quality needs to be better, you have to watch what kind of crabs and fish you have in the tank. Might need more rock, as 2lbs per galloin is advised for a Reef tank. Yoiur Nitrates can be much higher in a fiSh only tank. Tap water would not be a good idea here, as the TDS, phosphates and other crap in the water would make it difficult to keep corals. And that one lamp you have would not support corals either.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Haha well that sure explains it! Thanks! 

I gotta tell my buddy to get on here. His tank is set up all wrong! He has a porqupine puffer fish, and some other thing, and had 2 clown fish(puffer ate them) 

but he has a 55 gal with like 6 live rocks in it. And just a filter that hangs off the back. A heater. And a bubbler. 

YIKES!


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> Haha well that sure explains it! Thanks!
> 
> I gotta tell my buddy to get on here. His tank is set up all wrong! He has a porqupine puffer fish, and some other thing, and had 2 clown fish(puffer ate them)
> 
> but he has a 55 gal with like 6 live rocks in it. And just a filter that hangs off the back. A heater. And a bubbler.
> 
> YIKES!


Yea, that could spell alittle trouble won't it. Bet his water parameters are all shot up also.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

So lets say i set up the 55gal to specs you have all stated. What cool fish and stuff could i put in there? Ive always liked clown fish, lion fish, dragonet fish my gf loves! lol I like those fire red shrimp 2! another other cool ideas?


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Also if i put an anemone in there for the clown fish i would need a higher powered light right?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> So lets say i set up the 55gal to specs you have all stated. What cool fish and stuff could i put in there? Ive always liked clown fish, lion fish, dragonet fish my gf loves! lol I like those fire red shrimp 2! another other cool ideas?


 Clown fish yes, Dwarf Lion Fish, yes, Dragonette, well this one if difficult. Fully mature tanks can support these guys because they eat PODS. But, you can buy and feed the tank with PODS. Red Shrimp, Fire Shrimp, yes. 

Saltwater Fish: Marine Aquarium Fish for Saltwater Aquariums


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> Also if i put an anemone in there for the clown fish i would need a higher powered light right?


 Yes, you will need the light that I previously posted. At least, for an Anemone.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Ok cool i will have to invest lol


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> Ok cool i will have to invest lol


 The links I gave you are pretty good, pretty cheap stuff to get you going.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Reefing Madness said:


> Clown fish yes, Dwarf Lion Fish, yes, Dragonette, well this one if difficult. Fully mature tanks can support these guys because they eat PODS. But, you can buy and feed the tank with PODS. Red Shrimp, Fire Shrimp, yes.
> 
> Saltwater Fish: Marine Aquarium Fish for Saltwater Aquariums


So all these guys would be ok together? I am just worried about the lion fish if it would eat the other fish? My aunt and uncle had a lion in with 2 clowns, some white and black striped fish, and a couple others, and he never ate anyone so lol


----------



## Reefing Madness

Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+25+242&pcatid=242


----------



## Toallhisdoom

yes sir that would be it! Now is a protein skimmer mandatory for a 55 gallon? Just wanna tell my buddy if he should get one or if it will be ok without it?


----------



## njudson

Toallhisdoom said:


> yes sir that would be it! Now is a protein skimmer mandatory for a 55 gallon? Just wanna tell my buddy if he should get one or if it will be ok without it?


nothing is really mandatory in this hobby. A skimmer is one of the easiest ways to export organics and because of that they are commonly used. You sure what he has is not a hang on skimmer?

Also I wouldn't put a lionfish in with fish small enough to be lunch. To me lions scream species tank (ie only lions) this would actually make for a cool medium/small setup imo.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> yes sir that would be it! Now is a protein skimmer mandatory for a 55 gallon? Just wanna tell my buddy if he should get one or if it will be ok without it?


Mandatory, no. Highly recommended, yes. Your water quality will go to crap in a hurry without one in a 55g tank, and its hard to keep the prarameters in good shape without it.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

he goes "not necessary unless you have a crap load of dirty fish" lol! 

he does only have 2 fish in a 55gal


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> he goes "not necessary unless you have a crap load of dirty fish" lol!
> 
> he does only have 2 fish in a 55gal


 the fish aren't the only things that crap in a tank. 
Bristle Worms, PODS, and all the rest of the lil buggers that you can't see in the sand and rock. But, hey, what do i know.....:roll:


----------



## Toallhisdoom

lol he is an idiot. No use arguing with him, when he starts having problems we can say "told ya so!" hahaha

I tried telling him but w.e. Ill do my setup right, and his can fail.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> lol he is an idiot. No use arguing with him, when he starts having problems we can say "told ya so!" hahaha
> 
> I tried telling him but w.e. Ill do my setup right, and his can fail.


 :doh!::thumbsup:


----------



## Toallhisdoom

I feel like all i need to know now is what the water lvls should be at. PH ALK all that stuff. Oh and how often to test the water.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

hey this might be a stupid question, if i have my filter running a salt water tank with the cubes and carbon and stuff. It all was replaced like 3 weeks ago, is it ok to use the same stuff on a salt water tank? or will that be bad? and should i just replace it all? And should i soak the whole thing in vinegar/water mix?


----------



## Nubster

I'd probably replace the carbon if you plan to use that in your SW tank. Some do, some don't. As far as the cubes, I assume you mean the sponges, I'd either boil them or give them a bleach bath and rinse well. I'd think anything from FW that you introduce into a SW tank wouldn't survive but why chance it. Otherwise I'd use it. I did with my setup with no issues.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

yea its got those bio cubes in it. How often should i change the carbon? Cubes?


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> I feel like all i need to know now is what the water lvls should be at. PH ALK all that stuff. Oh and how often to test the water.


Honestly, since you are using RO or distilled water, you really don't have control. The live rock will buffer your water and the salt mix will add all the stuff you need. If you get into corals you may have to play chemist a little bit but for FOWLR the RO water, LR, and salt mix will get you where you need to be. Your salinity should be 1.023. I strongly suggest a refractometer. Not too expensive and WAY MORE accurate that a hydrometer.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

ok oh something i never asked, how much salt per gallon will get me to the right salinity? 

Someone told me i can go to healthy pet center near me and they will give me water? any thoughts on this?


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> yea its got those bio cubes in it. How often should i change the carbon? Cubes?


Still not sure what biocubes are. Are they blocks of sponge media? If so, don't replace them, just rinse them when you do water changes. Carbon I think you replace monthly. You can also use Purigen in SW tanks and that you can use for several months then recharge and use again.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

ah they are like these things
it has activated carbon in 1 slot
Amazon.com: Fluval Biomax 500 gram 17.63 oz Media x 6pk: Pet Supplies in another
and this in the other Amazon.com: Hagen Fluval External Power Filter Pre-Filter Media: Pet Supplies


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> ok oh something i never asked, how much salt per gallon will get me to the right salinity?
> 
> Someone told me i can go to healthy pet center near me and they will give me water? any thoughts on this?


Yeah, some places will sell the SW by the gallon. As far as how much per gallon, not sure, I don't remember. I think I was adding several cups to the water for my 10g during water changes. Every brand of salt may be different so I would follow the directions as a guide but always double check with the hydrometer/refractometer before adding to the tank.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

ok cool. duh stupid me there are probably instructions on the bucket lol whats a good brand you would recommend?


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> ah they are like these things
> Amazon.com: Fluval Biomax Bio Rings - 500 grams/17.63 ounces: Pet Supplies


Oh...ok...just rinse them in old tank water when you do water changes to get any gunk that may have accumulated but to be honest, you don't need those in a SW tank. That's what all the live rock is for. That IS your biofiltration. I'd replace that with some sponge media or filter floss.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

oh yea it also has like spunge filters in it. haha! so i basically dont need that filter at all? just a protein skimmer and enough power heads to reach over 1100gph? and then the rock will do the rest? thats pretty cool!


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> ok cool. duh stupid me there are probably instructions on the bucket lol whats a good brand you would recommend?


I always used Oceanic or Seachem. Not sure what the "best" is but those always worked well for me. I read a study once and I think Instant Ocean was one of the ones that was not as good to use, it lacked or was low on a lot of the elements needed in the water. Things may have changed though, I have not been into SW in a few years although this thread has me thinking about trying it again...lol


----------



## Toallhisdoom

haha i am so interested in this stuff! i cant wait to see it all come together. I have wicked ADD but i started taking my adderall again today and wow i haven't learned so much in a long time! 

idk how you remember all this stuff its crazy!


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> oh yea it also has like spunge filters in it. haha! so i basically dont need that filter at all? just a protein skimmer and enough power heads to reach over 1100gph? and then the rock will do the rest? thats pretty cool!


Well, it won't hurt to still use the filter too for some mechanical filtration but there are some that don't use them. They just go natural so to speak. They do use the powerheads for circulation, not much way around that, but they don't use the filter. Some don't use protein skimmers either. If you really keep up with water changes and keep stocking low I think you can get by without one. Of course it doesn't hurt if you want one either. Of course you can use the filter and have chemical media in it like chemipure or purigen and it will do basically the same thing as a protein skimmer.


----------



## Nubster

Toallhisdoom said:


> haha i am so interested in this stuff! i cant wait to see it all come together. I have wicked ADD but i started taking my adderall again today and wow i haven't learned so much in a long time!
> 
> idk how you remember all this stuff its crazy!


haha...I can't remember crap in school but when it's stuff that actually interests me I don't have too much problem. Sometimes I have to look something up to jog my memory though...haha


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Hmm so how often am i supposed to do water changes? lets say if i go o naturale! and just have the jets how often? and what about if i had the filter hooked up with chemi pure in it? and what if i had the filter, jets, and a skimmer?


----------



## Nubster

I'd still say weekly. Reason being is that there are a lot of minerals and things in the salt mix that get used up, especially if you have corals. That stuff needs to be replaced. Remember that when you top off the tank you do that with fresh water only. It is also important to top off daily. The salt in the water does not evaporate with the water. So as water evaporates the salt is left behind and causes the salinity in the tank to rise. If you let it go too long then it will harm your livestock.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

and i top of with distilled water right? and how much of a water change do i do a week? and how exactly do i do it? just suck out a certain amount and throw back in the same amount?


----------



## Nubster

Yeah, top off with distilled or RO water.

Water change, 20-25% weekly. And yeah, make sure the tank is topped off then remove the amount you are changing and add the new water back. Just like FW except you're adding SW. It's important to make sure the water is topped off first though because if not, the salinity will be increased due to evaporation then you are adding more salt water on top of that with the water change so the salinity gets even higher.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

ohh ok. So top off with distilled/ r/o water, 20-25% SW change every week. Got it! What happens if you don't do it every week? does it get nasty and kill your fish?


----------



## Nubster

I doubt it but you certainly don't want to go much longer than a week if you can help it. It's really similar to FW but the livestock tend to be more sensitive so you have to be more careful with water parameters. If you are using a skimmer and/or chemical media, your stocking levels are on the low side, and you are not over feeding then you can probably get by with a little more time between water changes. Now if you have corals in the tank I wouldn't push it past a week because the corals really depend on those minerals and stuff being replaced by the water changes.

Topping off though really must be done daily or every other day if you have very little evaporation.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

well i never change the water in my cichlid tank. Think i have done it once in the last 6 months. hahaha water is still crystal clear and tests good. Guess the filter that works up to 100 gal on a 35 is a little over kill.

But ok will make sure to do it every week. I have rats i have to clean their cages once a week and snakes so just another thing to add to the day.


----------



## Reefing Madness

If your going to change 25% of the water you don't need to do that much every week. You can do that amount every 2weeks. You should change 10% weekly or 25% every 2 weeks. But I'm messed up, my parameters don't go out of range, meaning Ammonia-0, Nitrites-0, Nitrates-0-5, so I change 30% every 3 months. I do this at the 3 month period for the Trace Elements in the salt. In a Reef, you'd be better off doing every 2 weeks, unless something gets out of whack.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

HaHa everyone has conflicting views! Anyways, just found out from my cousin that an apartment above her store may be opening up in February so i am going to wait until then to put the 55gal together so that i do not have to move it in a month. So i will update this with pics of the tank all set up when i get it together. Going to start buying small bits here and there for now.


----------



## onefish2fish

standard 55 gallon tanks are narrow. standard 75 gallon tanks are the same length, but wider making aquascaping your rock work easier. placing rocks in a 55 you easily make a rock wall.. not always the best look. creating islands, arches, pilars, and such is a better way of aquascaping IMO. i believe you already have the 55? is there any way you could sell it, or even use it as a DIY sump with a glass-holes overflow kit?

10% weekly, 20-25% bi weekly water changes. saltwater life is sensitive and you dont want to change to much, to fast or to often. you want your replacement water to be as identical to your tanks water as possible ( temp, salinity - which should be tested with a refractometer check ebay )
pre-mix your salt and RO/DI water atleast 24 hours in advance in a food safe tub, bucket, brute garbage can, or similiar.

a skimmer is an important piece of the puzzle. i wouldnt skimp on one of these, just as much as i wouldnt skimp on lighting for a reef tank. you wont need any other filtration besides maybe carbon/phosban reactors, a UV sterilizer wouldnt hurt a FOWLR tank either but not something needed as much as a quality skimmer. a filter sock may be one more option but NEEDS to be cleaned frequently!
this means, no canister filters, hang on filters ( unless running them empty for flow, or with carbon ) no bio balls, bio wheels, filter floss, filter sponges, and basically anything that can trap poop to allow it to break down. when uneaten food or poop breaks down it turns into unwanted nitrates and even phosphates which is going to cause unwanted algae growth. ( same as not using RO/DI water as nitrates, phosphates and other minerals would be present in the tap water ) 
not having enough flow in the display, or packing your refugium ( slow flowing area of the sump ) with live rock can create problems just like having freshwater type filters as they too will collect poop, debris and uneating food allowing it to break down into excess nutrients. the idea for saltwater is to keep things moving with flow and allow your skimmer to pick up things from the water. basically like seeing the yellow foam when waves crash on a beach, your skimmer whips the water to create foam into a collection cup.

given that, dont skip on a skimmer or flow ( hydors a cheap but good brand ) 
your going to need minimum liquid test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, alk, cal, mag, ph, a thermometer for temp, a refractometer for salinity and alk, cal and mag to dose if needed. i suggest a 2 part like b-ionic. this is crucial in a reef tank but IMO important for fish health as well. 

a QT tank is highly recomended, this could be another use for this 55 gallon. this is where fish would go for observation for about 2 months. here you can observe eating habits, along with other behaviors. well observing a fish for health issues in a store before buying is important too. its always good to observe for obvious things like clamped fins, heavy breathing, quality of fins, and body ( torn, ripped, white spots, missing scales, ect ) laying on the sand bed, not swimming right, and so forth. 
adding fish slowly is what works. by this i dont just mean drip acclimating them to their new enviroment, possibly even keeping the lights out on the tank for a day or two, but i mean by adding a fish, waiting a few weeks, to months to adding another. your tank needs to mature and overloading it will just create quick deaths for fish, and possibly an entire tank crash. it is very wise to plan the fish you want, make a list, edit it, pick an order in which the fish will be added ( fish def. have pecking orders and you wouldnt want to add a tang first, a better choice would be a goby or pair of clowns ) 
do yourself a favor and avoid damsels.

check your area for a local reefing club. its great to meet people with the same interest and maybe you can gather some needed items cheaper, however always research before buying. 

that should help some, feel free to ask more questions.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

pair of clown fish, anenome, sea urchin, furry dwarf lion fish, and eventually a dragonet. Not sure what else. What would go good with this group?


----------



## onefish2fish

the lion fish will eat the clowns, prob. even the dragonet, which can be tough fish to get to eat ( look into the ORA captive bred dragons if anything ) 
anemones need a reef enviroment, strong lighting, good alk, cal, mag levels..


----------



## Toallhisdoom

I just found an add on craigslist for a 125 gallon tank for 175$ gonna try him down to 125. lol


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> I just found an add on craigslist for a 125 gallon tank for 175$ gonna try him down to 125. lol


 :BIGcool:


----------



## Toallhisdoom

So for the 125 gallon tank, and if i want to have an anenome will the T5 light still be enough? Or do i need a stronger light?


----------



## onefish2fish

just remember the tanks one of the cheaper purchases ( more flow needed, more rock, bigger skimmer ) but regardless nice find. tanks will come and go, so remember plan things out!


----------



## Toallhisdoom

So would everything still be the same for the 125 as stated for the 55? Basically just a lot of GPH jets and big protein skimmer? And big lights?


----------



## onefish2fish

more rock, more sand, bigger water changes, so alot more cost but the plus side is the more water volume the more stable the tank lol. you have to consider the electric bill in costs too, with 10 things plugged in it can add up.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Got ya. What do you guys spend per month on electricity with what size tanks?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## onefish2fish

it really depends on exactly what your running. from your lights to what pumps, they all are rated different watts. heck, it matters what kind of refridgerator you have plugged in because that will be on your electric bill as well..


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Lolol well like 50$ a month? Or wat?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> So for the 125 gallon tank, and if i want to have an anenome will the T5 light still be enough? Or do i need a stronger light?


 T-5 will work, just not the same ones you were looking at for the smaller tank. When I had a 125, I used 2-4 lamp fixtures. Until I moved to Halides.


----------



## onefish2fish

that might be a good average for a small reef or larger fish only, just for the tank.. not including lights in your house and using your toaster. i think my apartment bill was $100 something last month. i also used an electric heater in my house for alittle bit.


----------



## Reefing Madness

My electrical bill is nuts, then again I live in Phoenix.


----------



## Reefing Madness

If you hunt down LED's for your lighting, your tank will not affect your bill much


----------



## Toallhisdoom

maybe i should just look for a 75. Seems like a good medium. More volume, wider for rock space.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

guy has a 75 gal with stand and accessory up for 125. I told him 75. he said no. what a dick. ok now offering him 100. lol


----------



## Toallhisdoom

75 gallon fish tank cabinet stand


----------



## Reefing Madness

Looks good. If there are more like it on the List, then he should have done his homework. Or is it the only one out there, and you have to eat his price?


----------



## Toallhisdoom

He said he has other people interested so he wont come down from 125. But compared to all the other ones out there that is cheap.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> He said he has other people interested so he wont come down from 125. But compared to all the other ones out there that is cheap.


 Got ya.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

REEF JANITORS FOR REEF AQUARIUMS

anyone ever seen this before?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> REEF JANITORS FOR REEF AQUARIUMS
> 
> anyone ever seen this before?


 I believe I've seen better deals. Also, believe it or not, thats a crap load of inverts that are just not needed. I believe I only have 10 Turbo Snails in mine.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

So i am gonna get the 6 gal tank and do the trade. 75$ plus the tank which is like 100$ plus upgraded lights,plus he has the black and white stripped clown fish which are a little more expensive. like 30-40$ each here. The live rock, anemone, and he said he is giving me 3 diff types of food and all the supply's i will need for a while to take care of the tank. So i figure i can just put the clowns in the bigger tank when i get it set up. But i went ahead and ordered the reef janitor set up just to take car of w/e algea is in the tank when i get it, and the guy said the snails he includes in it will take care of the green grass algae. Its a set up for a 29gallon tank, it was 30$. All kinds of stuff is included in it. I am going to probably give my buddy with the 55 gallon some of the snails and crabs and stuff because i feel like packing all that in a 6gal will be pointless and way over doing it.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Oh how do i cycle the tank? when i get the rock and water and everything in it?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> Oh how do i cycle the tank? when i get the rock and water and everything in it?


Yes, once everything is in place.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

This is the tank i got after i re arranged the live rocks and cleaned it up and got the water right.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Right on.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Anyone want a sea urchin?! I hate the stupid thing. It knocked my corals over! Jerk.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

http://www.fluvalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Fluval-EDGE-LED-Bulbs.jpg

How do these look?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Not enough wattage.


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Hmm what do you suggest?


----------



## Reefing Madness

If your using the MR16 lamp type I'd go with 5w lamps, couple of those in that lil tank and your set.
Something like this, but this one has a horrible color.
5X 5W Warm White MR16 High Power LED Spot Energy Saving Down Light Lamp Bulb 12V | eBay


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Got sick of sticking my hand in that tiny hole so i moved the setup into a 20gal. (24x12x16)

And i purchased that t5-ho light fixture that was linked earlier in this thread. 

So new question! I have some "dry" rock that was in a friends tank, it has been sitting in my yard for about a month. If i clean it off(soak in distilled water and scrub?) will it be ok to put in the tank?


----------



## Toallhisdoom

Reef Octopus Hang on Back Protein Skimmer BH1000 [OCT-BH1000] - $164.94 : Reefers Direct

Also looking into getting this protein skimmer so when i eventually upgrade to the 75gal bow front i want i can just use this for it.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> Reef Octopus Hang on Back Protein Skimmer BH1000 [OCT-BH1000] - $164.94 : Reefers Direct
> 
> Also looking into getting this protein skimmer so when i eventually upgrade to the 75gal bow front i want i can just use this for it.


 excellent choice


----------



## Reefing Madness

Toallhisdoom said:


> Got sick of sticking my hand in that tiny hole so i moved the setup into a 20gal. (24x12x16)
> 
> And i purchased that t5-ho light fixture that was linked earlier in this thread.
> 
> So new question! I have some "dry" rock that was in a friends tank, it has been sitting in my yard for about a month. If i clean it off(soak in distilled water and scrub?) will it be ok to put in the tank?


What kind of Rock is it though? you just don't want any rock in there. Hopefully it was meant for a saltwater tank. Then yes, you could just rinse it off and use it.


----------



## warway

Really very interesting forum. I like it.


----------

