# PH problem



## jd254 (Dec 29, 2006)

ok.. I jsut tested my PH level in my fish tank and it's yellow. That means it's either 6 or below cuz yellow is as light as it gets on the chart. I'm assuming this is not good for my painted glass fish. They've been living in that condition for a while, a few month (since my last water change). so.. my question, how do i raise the ph level safely with all the fish inside? will adding aquairum salt do anything?


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

hmm, i think if you add rocks to your tank the ph will rise slowly but safely. Do not add any ph raising chemicals because these do more harm then good.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Either you get some limestone or rocks containing calcium deposits or get some crushed oyster shells and place them in your filter.


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## jd254 (Dec 29, 2006)

lol where do i get this?


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## jones57742 (Oct 31, 2006)

jd254:

The previous posts "had her nailed".

I have just been through this situation and from your "yellow" comment I believe that you have a TetraTest Laborett.

I have Ph Up and Ph Down in my garage but they are there only for dire emergencies (which I have not had with respect to Ph).
The reason that I do not use these products is that their use will cause stress to your fish due to "instantaneous" changes in Ph.

Your profile does not indicated if you reside in the United States.
If you do these "holey rocks" (previously referenced) will (or can) be available at your local PetCo.

These "holey rocks" typically come from limestone quarries in West and Central Texas and are principally Calcium Carbonate.
Calcium Carbonate will "neutralize" the acid in your tank water via the creation of Calcium Chloride, Carbon Dioxide and Water.

Although not published in the fish keeping literature egg shells are 95% Calcium Carbonate and could be used to "neutralize" the acid in your tank.

TR


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## jd254 (Dec 29, 2006)

egg shells? that's genius! I also found some sea shells I found at the beach that I used for decorations for my turtle tank. I just threw them on top of my eclipse filter pad. Should I use the egg shells still or will these shells be good enuff to stablize my PH back to normal, or atleast nuetral.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

jd254 said:


> egg shells? that's genius! I also found some sea shells I found at the beach that I used for decorations for my turtle tank. I just threw them on top of my eclipse filter pad. Should I use the egg shells still or will these shells be good enuff to stablize my PH back to normal, or atleast nuetral.


Try to monitor the pH and see if the pH did increase. If it did not, probably the shells are insufficient so adding the shells should do the job.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I am wondering if we know why the pH crashed? Did you also test nitrates? How you fix it will partly be dependent on what caused it. Have you tested the pH in your tap water? What kind of difference is there from the two? How often do you do water exchanges?

Be very careful not to bring the pH level back up too quickly, as this will shock the fish and can easily kill them. You can go to your LFS and buy a bag of crushed coral, put some into a media bag, and put this into your filter, but watch that your pH doesn't go too high over time. If there is something specific causing this problem and the tap water tests higher than the tank water, then simple SMALL water changes, about 5% each day, will also raise your pH, and won't cost anything or cause any hassle.

I strongly urge you to find out what caused this, as pH fluctuations can be very deadly to the animals, and are usually preventable.

If you post the other test results, we can help you to sort it out.


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## jones57742 (Oct 31, 2006)

jd254 said:


> egg shells? that's genius! I also found some sea shells I found at the beach that I used for decorations for my turtle tank. I just threw them on top of my eclipse filter pad. Should I use the egg shells still or will these shells be good enuff to stablize my PH back to normal, or atleast nuetral.


The outer layer of seas shells is not calcium carbonate (it is conchin) and hence the sea shells will not increase the Ph.

If you have access to small mollusk, clam or oyster shells you can "crush them up" and substitute them for the egg shells but the calcium carbonate of the inner layers of these shells exist in a conchin glass or matrix and will not be as effective as egg shells.

Once again the use of egg shells is not published in the fish keeping literature for use in increasing Ph but "I do not see" any reason why they would not function for this purpose.

TR


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## Derek-M (Dec 11, 2006)

Just before you do anything to the tank get your reading confirmed at your lfs..Just make sure they have a calibrated ph meter because at lot of test kits are giving false readings... I myself have hade no end of bother with test kits giving out very low readings particularly the dip strips. I have now invested in a Sera electronic meter


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## jd254 (Dec 29, 2006)

alright, im using wardley's freshwater master kit. The PH, High PH, ammonia, and nitrite are all zeroes or the lightest color possible. Nitrate is sorta orange giving me a reading of 5 to 10 ppm (closer to 5). I tired the same test on my turtle tank and it's diff. so I dont think it's ineffective. I barely do any water changes because my nitrate have been staying pretty low since I added plants to the aquarium. The algae and plants are actually thriving pretty nicely (I also keep the light on pretty much always). I clean the algae off the wall almost weekly. Think the algae is affecting the ph? My tap water's ph is actually 7 point something. What if I just add tap water to my tank? I usually just add a gallon non cholorinated tap water every other month and the tank is fine, but I'll decholrinate it this time i guess. Will my ph go up if I add tap water? I'm just worried about my crayfish because I thought they were sensitive to changes in water condition. I think my other two died off around the same time when I added the untreated tap water (that or this crayfish killed it off). anybody got any idea why the ph went down? Also, I use Easy Balance with Nitraban.

* Carbonate Hardness AdditiveÃ¢â‚¬â€œ The appropriate amount of carbonate hardness is added to the aquarium water compensating for KH losses, which occur as a result of nitrification.
* pH StabilizationÃ¢â‚¬â€œ Stabilizes the pH value on a sufficiently high level, preventing a drop to biologically harmful levels (pH crash) and produces a certain amount of CO2 preventing excessive pH values.
* Phosphate Removing EffectÃ¢â‚¬â€œ In a standard aquarium (30gal) the phosphate concentration is reduced to zero during most of the 6-month period.
* New Feature: Nitrate Reduction with NitrabanÃ¢â€žÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Serves as a nutrient for denitrifying bacteria that consume the oxygen releasing nitrogen from the aquarium. On average the nitrate concentration will drop below 40mg/l.
* Other Features IncludeÃ¢â‚¬â€œ Production of Carbon Dioxide, the addition of trace elements and a replenishment of vitamin B.

It said to use it every month. I used it for two and stopped. It suppose to help stop the need for doing water changes for six months. I jsut used it again cuz it "helps" stabilize ph changes. I also adde a bubble wand into the aquarium the same time I used this cuz it needs "a properly aerated" tank.


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## jd254 (Dec 29, 2006)

ok just changed 40% of my fish water. I gravel vac 30% of the surface area btw. Let's c how it goes within the hour. oh n i just realized the easy balance is suppose to be used every week, not every month.


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## Derek-M (Dec 11, 2006)

> so I dont think it's ineffective


I didn't either, ..I used 5 diff test kits and they all said my tapwater was low...I was losing too many fish so I knew something was wrong....but the kits were all saying 7.0-7.5... 1 or 2 of the kits ended up being a complete 1.0 less than the electonic Sera meter...My tapwater ended up being 8.3  ..I now run a eheim 2224 full of peat on 75 gall of tapwater every night and that brings it down to 7.3 and the fish have improved 100%... I will never trust liquid or dip strip test again...Thats why I said you would be better if you got it checked out


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## jd254 (Dec 29, 2006)

so... how come no one ever told me liquid test are unreliable!?!!?!? ok ok.... let's c how much this is gunna cost me...


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## jones57742 (Oct 31, 2006)

jd254 said:


> so... how come no one ever told me liquid test are unreliable!?!!?!? ok ok.... let's c how much this is gunna cost me...


jd254:

I use the TetraTest Laborett which is liquid reagent.

Very few times have the tests been obviously erroneous.

Those few times I retested with 15ml of tank water instead of 5ml of tank water and the tests indicated typical results.

IMHO:
I would purchase another liquid reagent test kit of different brand,
Run tests with both kits with 15ml and observe the results*.

Derek has way, way more experience than I but IMHO I would not "haul off and spend a bunch of money" until you have tried the above.

I anticipate that you will find that the results are comparable unless one of the tests kits is old.

TR

* Presume you know this but

1) rinse the test vials twice in tap water shaking vigorously with the caps on.

2) rinse the test vials twice in tank water shaking vigorously with the caps on.

3) fill the vials with 15ml of tank water.

4) shake your reagent bottles vigorously before adding the quantity of reagent specified for 5ml.

5) cap the reagent bottle and the these test vial and shake vigorously.

6) repeat 5) until you have added the quantity of reagent necessary for 15ml.

7) allow the test vials to wait the time period as set forth in the directions in your test kits.

8) observe the results of the tests by comparison of the test vials and your color charts under white incandescent light.


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## Derek-M (Dec 11, 2006)

> ok ok.... let's c how much this is gunna cost me...


I am only advising you to have it checked out first *not* to go out and buy an electronic meter




> so... how come no one ever told me liquid test are unreliable!?!!?!?


A lot of people never check these things out...When I did all my tests on them The Sera liquid test differed from the electronic one by .5 when I asked why I got no responce from them.. They said the electronic one was spot on so in my mind their liquid ones must be fauty :frustrated:


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

The Ssera brand of liquid test kits are known to be the most accurate on the market if not using an electronic meter. I have used Sera for over 10 yrs now, and I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've had inaccurate results. You must perform the test accourding to the instructions with 5ml of water, and you must be very accurate on that level of water in the vial. To get an accurate water level, look straight on at the vial, not from above or at an angle.

The most accurate way to perform water testing is with electronic meters, but the expense is not always warranted. If you know you will need to perform this test frequently, and will need to monitor your levels closely, then an electronic meter can be the perfect solution, as it will save time and money in the long term, and will give you a much more accurate result. Most electronic meters are also very easy to use, which makes them desirable to anyone who finds the other forms of test kits difficult.

After reviewing this entire thread yet again, I would suggest in your case, if you can afford the electronic meter, it's probably a good idea.


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## Derek-M (Dec 11, 2006)

> The Ssera brand of liquid test kits are known to be the most accurate on the market if not using an electronic meter. I have used Sera for over 10 yrs now, and I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've had inaccurate results. You must perform the test accourding to the instructions with 5ml of water, and you must be very accurate on that level of water in the vial. To get an accurate water level, look straight on at the vial, not from above or at an angle.


Hi Dawn

When I did the test on the kits the Sera rep was there with me, the test was accurately done and she agreed that something was not right she took my electronic meter away for testing and it was flawless in their opinion. So I asked the question why the test kits sold by them differed so much from the meter and I have had no responce to date...The Sera kit is not the only one that that is more than a bit out...


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Derek,
Maybe I can answer some of the questions that the rep wouldn't? For starters, I also have worked with the Sera reps. There are good ones and bad ones, just as in any other industry. Some do it for the money, some do it because they enjoy it, and some actually know about the products they're selling. 
When they make the test kits and the solutions are created and packaged, there are variations involved, which, being chemistry, can have an effect on results. There are always chances that something differs somewhere, and that is with any liquid, dry tab, or strip test. Of the most accurate on the market are various liquid tests. The factors that vary are more "exact" in a liquid kit than in a strip test or dry tab test. Our store worked for months with Sera to get through a bad batch of Calcium tests at one point. It was a mess, but they were helpful and replaced everything we found to be bad. That particular problem was due to temperature fluctuations when chemicals were mixed & packaged.

You'll find the same issues with hydrometers in saltwater... temperature differences when they are calibrated at the manufacturer compared to that of temp fluctuations during packaging, shipping, and even when on the shelf of a store. Here, the solution is to use a refractometer. Our store was using a refractometer to calibrate new hydrometers right out of the package as we were selling them, and some were found to be WAY off. 

As I stated earlier in this thread, electronic meters are going to be the way to go if extreme accuracy is needed, which, in your case, it sounds as if this is important. For the average aquarium keeper, the slight variations in the many brands of liquid tests can be dealt with unless they are working with something sensitive, but many people cannot afford the electronic meters and/or don't need such exact results (or don't care enough about accuracy). I have seen so many situations, and what is good for one doesn't mean its good for all.

Does this help at all?


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## Derek-M (Dec 11, 2006)

> Does this help at all?


Thanks for the response, and yes it does answer some of the questions..I just find it difficult to sell test kits to my customers when I have no faith in them myself, but I do understand that not everyone can afford digital meters


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