# Swim Bladder Problem?? ASAP



## breadandbutter (Dec 9, 2006)

i have a leopard danio that keeps swimming vertically and wriggling loads, also he sometimes just sinks to the bottom just breathing and generaly doesn't look well. His main fins seem ok as he can move both ways and there isn't any visible damage as far as i can tell.

he has only been in the tank 3 weeks, would that be anything to do with it?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Hi.:wave:

It seems your fish has damaged internal organs. How do you feed the fish and what food are you using?
Here are the following factors you may have look out:
1. Congenitally deformed bladder
2. Cancer or tuberculosis in organs adjacent to the swim bladder
3. Constipation
4. Poor nutrition
5. Chilling or rapid fluctuations in temperature
6. Serious parasitic infestation
7. Serious bacterial infestation
Make sure your temperature is stable and feed your fish with live food to ensure it is getting enough roughage.


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## JouteiMike (Oct 7, 2006)

Have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? Some more information wouldn't hurt, like tank size, tank mates, temperature, pH....as much info as you can give us. 

Also I'm curious, besides the irregular swimming and breathing, how is the fish's appetite?

But sounds like the fish could have bladder problems and/or the problems Blue stated. If the problem persists, it may be best to seperate the fish.


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## crazie.eddie (Sep 1, 2006)

I would seperate the fish and possibly treat with anti-bacteria medicine, such as Erythromycin. Unfortunately, it may not help, since I have never seen any cases where the fish has been cured of swim bladder. I am currently treating my angelfish (about 5 weeks of treatment now) for swim bladder, with Erythromycin. I've tried Erythromycin from National Fish Pharmaceuticals, API's Erythromycin, and also Mardels' Maracyn. I found the National Fish Pharmaceuticals the cheapest per gram, but it does not seem to dissolve completely compared to API's Erythromycin.

I've read the bacteria medicines are best if ingested, so I would feed my fish using a medicine dropper with bloodworms soaked/mixed with Erythromycin. I also added Erythromycin to the tank. As I mentioned, this is already on the 5th week of treatment with no signs of improvement.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

This doesn't sound like a case for meds. What it sounds like is possibly swim bladder problem and/or neurological problems. Unfortunately, it happens. There are many causes, such as water quality, sodium chloride overdose, physical trauma, temperature jumps, and various others. It sounds to me as if the fish is too far gone to save, and is probably suffering. My personal advice would be to examine the other fish, if any, and if nobody else is showing any of those same symptoms, be humane, but put the fish down and end its suffering. I would also advise trying to eliminate causes in water quality and incompatible tank mates that may be present, but posting test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and size of tank, how long it has been set up, what and how much you're feeding (how often, too), if you've done water exchanges, and how many, how much water, and a list of all the other fish in the tank... and how many of each, live plants or fake, everything you can think to tell us will help. We have a lot of experienced and knowledgable people here at fishforum, all eager to help. 
I will keep an eye open for your post.


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## breadandbutter (Dec 9, 2006)

the others look ok but i probably sound like an idiot but i can't see him anymore. there are only 7 out of the 8 left. all i have in the tank is 8 (now 7) small danio/white clouds and 3 small apple snails. i am sure they're not big enough to eat him and he's too big to be sucked into the gravel vac/filter. but he's just gone. 

other than that the water quality is perfect but i have been changing the water every day recently due to dirty water. they eat flake food but he hasn't been able to get up to the top to eat it.

this probably sounds even stupider so sorry if it does but am i right that fish float to the top when they die? cos i don't know where he's gone. i've only got a small tank (15l) and he's nowhere to be seen!


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

breadandbutter said:


> this probably sounds even stupider so sorry if it does but am i right that fish float to the top when they die? cos i don't know where he's gone. i've only got a small tank (15l) and he's nowhere to be seen!


It actually may differ. Some can be found at the bottom when dead. Others are found on top with the body in curved shape. Have you check your filter aside from decors?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

After doing the conversion of 15 liters to gallons, I get 3.9 gallons. That is A LOT of fish in a tank that size. Apple snails put out waste, also, and will grow very large (the size of a softball), so what you're mostly in need of is a larger tank. For the fish you have now, you should have 10 - 15 gallons minimum just to handle the waste load.
You said you HAD water quality issues, can you explain what that was, how you fixed it, and how long ago?
Also, you said water params are perfect... what do you consider perfect? Without exact numbers, that is difficult to predict. If your water went from bad to good all at once, that would have been enough to shock the fish, in which case, the symptoms you described make perfect sense. Chances are that was the weaker of the fishes, and then most vulnerable.
I can say this: expect to do daily water changes until you get a bigger tank, or expect to have more problems. There is no other way to put it. The tank is overcrowded, and once the snails start to grow, the waste levels are going to increase even more. Bad situation all the way around.


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## breadandbutter (Dec 9, 2006)

water quality issue was about 2 weeks ago and it was because i turned the filter off at nights so i have kept it running and done daily water changes until it was ok. 

i got a sample and took it to my lfs to be tested and they said it was fine (3 days ago)



> If your water went from bad to good all at once, that would have been enough to shock the fish, in which case, the symptoms you described make perfect sense. Chances are that was the weaker of the fishes, and then most vulnerable.


i think this is exactly the problem because i did quite big water changes and didn't know if this would affect them, obviiously it does.

do the snails make enough waste that it would be very worthwile to switch them to another tank now? and how many of what type of fish would be ok for this tank?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

If you want to keep the fish you already have, I wouldn't put more than 3 or 4 of them in there. White clounds will do fine without the heater, most danios will do better with a heater, but can survive without so long as the temp doesn't drop too low.
As for the apple snails... you might want to consider getting a different type of snail for that tank. If you want multiple snails, the ram's horn snails would be fine, or what is found in most LFS's marked as a "mystery snail", 1 of those would be ok for quite a while if you start with a small one. I wouldn't keep apple snails in that small of a tank, they grow fast and can be messy like the fish if the tank isn't big enough.
Does this help?


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## breadandbutter (Dec 9, 2006)

yeah thanks for the advice. i found the fish under some rocks  but ive taken the snails out and am looking to get another tank by new year


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