# This Fist thing isn't working out that well.



## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

So about 3 weeks ago bought a tank, some gravel, a fake plant and some fish. A Gold Molly, named Molly. 2 female guppies and a Male guppy. 

I followed the steps to step up the tank, added the water and treatment stuff. I put the fish bag in the water to let the fish and the temps stablize, like they tell you to.

One female guppy died in a few hours. The woman at the pet store said she was really young when I got her, so the shock might have been too much. shrug, but I don't know. She didn't even have any colour yet.

The Male died a few days later, with no apparent cause. And the other female died a few days ago. Molly's doing well. I keep changing 20% of the water each week, like I was told on here. 

The tank was starting to get kind of a funky smell, so I thought maybe the filtration that came with the tank wasn't so good and I bought a new one. My Molly is still going strong!! So I got a new guppy and a Strawberry Tertra (sp?)

ANy ideas about what I'm doing wrong, or what I can do to make sure these guys live long enough to be named?

Also how many fish can you have to a tank? Like 1 fish per gallon or something?


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Did your tank cycle at all? To me, that may be the problem. The filter switch probably messed stuff up too.

We need to know your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH levels so we can see if those are affecting them. You can find this out by buying a liquid test kit. API is a favorite.


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

I've heard of cycling your tank, but I have no idea what exaclty your supposed to do to cycle it. How long does it take? should I stop getting replacement fish until the tank has been cycled? If I do and all the fish die, how do I cycle it?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm new to the fish thing (well other than a couple gold fish when I was a kid). 

And I'd really like to know, how you know how many fish you can have in a tank. Obviously the smaller the fish the more fish you can house. the smaller the tank the less the number of fish. but is their a general rule of thumb?


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## jsb1976 (Jul 22, 2008)

I would stop adding fish. The odds are that they are not going to make it as your tank is probably not cycled. You need to buy a test kit to check ammonia, nitrate, etc... You may also need to change the water each day, or every few days, not just weekly to keep the water from being too toxic.
If you visit another website called aquariacentral dot com, go to the freshwater newbie forum and they have several pages listed on cycling that are easy to understand. Hope this helps.

I had the same experience with my first aquarium. I was sold everything the same day, and told to just add water and dechlorinator and it was good to go.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I agree with Cody. You need to have your water tested either with LIQUID test kit that you can purchase or by taking a sample of water to fish store and ask if they will test it. The results will go a long way towards telling you and those who can help just where your tank is at. Depending on those results and the size of your tank and given that you started with few small fish it is possible that the waste they produced was not sufficent to allow much bacteria to develop. For example three fish in a ten gallon tank would be better thanthree fish in 50 gal tank. If bio load is small bacteria will develop mor slowly thus extending the maturing or cycling process. If you can provide some test results, (paper test strips are not accurate) from a quality test kit such as API master freshwater kit found at some fishstores, then those here could be of more help. Don't get frustrated. And above all else don't add any chemicals that promise to speed cycling . Many of them create their own set of problems. Something you don't need right now.


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

jsb1976 said:


> I would stop adding fish. The odds are that they are not going to make it as your tank is probably not cycled.


I would actually disagree with that. The molly has a good chance of making it if he keeps up on the chemistry and does water changes before the ammonia or nitrites get too far out there. It'll take some dedication to keep up on it but if he does there's no reason the molly can't make it. The guppy might have a chance depending on how it was bred. The tetra is likely going to be the most sensitive of the bunch.


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Actually, the guppy died.  not even a day. The Tetra and the Molly are having a great time. I haven't seen my Molly this energetic, ever (that's not a bad thing is it?).

I'll have look at the test kits and see how things are. A friend, suggested, having the pets store run my filter on one of their established tanks for a few weeks and then putting the dirty filter in my tank to get the good bactieria to grow. He said it might be a safer bet than for me to keep killing my poor fish. shrug

Also, he said not to change the water as often, or as much? And once it's cycled not ot change it at all, or to alternate, once every two weeks change 20% of the water, two weeks later change the filter. Does this sound right? He used tohave a huge fish tank in high school. He said if he lived here, he'd run the filter through his tank for me.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

If you have fish in the tank you really have no choice but to perform water changes whenever ammonia levels become lethal. Only test kit can tell you how often that will be. If you have a small bioload you may not have to change the water as often as you would if you had a school of fish. Again water tests will tell you . :wink:


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Why would you give your filter to the fish store or your friend? Its not doing any good for you unless its running in your tank. Ask the pet store if you can have the media in their filter or something and put it in yours. Although I would be very careful not to add it if it came from a tank with sick fish.


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Well guppies can be severely inbred to achieve the tail colors that make them so flashy and that can lead to a lack of hardiness. An energetic molly is not a bad thing. If things are getting bad the mollly will likely clamp her fins to her body, be listless, or hover near the surface. If she starts to do that get worried.

I use the API liquid test kit and it works great. Unfortunately on some tests like ammonia the shade can be hard to interpret but overall it works wonderful. The big thing to watch out for in the beginning is ammonia. How much do you know about the nitrogen cycle in a fish tank? That'll let you know what to expect and watch out for.

The purpose of the filter would be to help jump start a bacteria colony in your tank. While the fish could run a filter pad or something for you for a while they could also give you a used filter pad (if your filters are compatible) or give you a chunk of it to stick in your filter if they aren't compatible. Also if their fish tank is healthy you could get a couple cup fulls of their gravel to help seed your tank. If you can wrangle either of those out of them just be sure to keep what they give you wet on the way home.

While I'll probably have people disagreeing with me on this I wouldn't worry about doing too many water changes. That you have excess ammonia in your tank is all that matters. The difference between 0.25ppm ammonia and 5.0ppm of ammonia in your tank is that in the 5.0ppm tank there's just that much more ammonia the bacteria can't eat at the moment. In a fishless cycle having a high ammonia reading is easier to manage than a low one, the ammonia lasts longer so you don't have to test and add more ammonia all the time, and it will foster a larger bacteria colony in the long run. In a fishless cycle it just makes your fish miserable and can kill them. Since the fish supply the ammonia you don't have to worry about dosing the tank, if they're alive they're making it. The amount of bacteria will take care of itself, etc. When cycling with fish its more important to keep the fish alive.

My 55 gallon tank is still cycling and I'm doing it with fish. The ammonia reading never went over 0.25 ppm without me doing a partial water change to keep it down. Well guess what, in three weeks the ammonia portion of the cycle is finished and I'm getting 0 ppm ammonia readings and all four of my cycling fish are happy and healthy.

When the tank is cycling just keep the fish alive. Monitor the ammonia and eventually nitrite readings and keep them in the safe range for the fish. So long as you never do a 100% water change you won't stop the cycle and it will take care of itself. Focus on keeping the fish alive.

Now once the cycle is over you'll still have to do water changes. The end result of the nitrogen cycle in a freshwater tank is nitrates. Nitrates are poisonous to fish in high doses. The only thing that takes nitrates out of the water is plants or algae. To really be able to NEVER change the water you will have to have only a few fish and a TON of plants. The only other way to remove nitrates from the water is to change a portion of the water. How much water is going to be determined by how fast nitrates build up. Again, this is where the test kit comes in. You have to monitor the nitrate levels and change some of the water before they build up too high. Eventually you'll get a rhythm built up and know how much and how often to change the water. This isn't something someone can tell you, it's something you'll have to monitor and work out on your own. Remember though, there's nothing wrong with changing water. So long as the temperature is close to the tank's temp, the pH is the same, and it's dechlorinated there's nothing to lose and a lot to gain from a regular water change. Just never do a 100% change. 

What kind of filter do you have?


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks! That was actually very helpful. 

My filter is called wisper? These suction cup thingys hook up to the back of the tank and it hooks up to an air pump that pushes water and air up to the filter.

It's good to know about the water too. So there's nothing I should add or do to the water than, other than change out some water when the levels are too high?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Change the water when ammonia levels are high using nothing but dechlorinator that removes ammonia, chlorine,and chloramines. :wink:


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Dechlorinator is the only thing that you should add to the water when you do a water change. Just follow the directions on the bottle.

I use tetra aquasafe for my tap water.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752317

Does your filter look like this one? http://www.aquariumguys.com/whisperintank.html


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks. I am using Tetra Declorinator, it came with the tank. The wisper filter looks very similar to the one in the photo.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

K...so either your filter is too small (the Whisper's that hook up to the airline are about the wussiest of the Tetra lines), or your tank is too small to support a molly that poos a lot and other fish. So far nobody's asked you about the tank size...sooooo, how big is your tank?


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

My tank is 8 liters. I really only want two maybe three fish in it. A cousin has a larger tank 75 liters, she's going to give me. Then I can use this tank for quarinteen or breeders or something. But I need to get this one up and working before I start with the next one. I don't want to deal with a big tank if I can't even get a couple fish to live.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Well no wonder! Your not going to have any luck have more then one fish survive in a 2.5 gallon tank that doesn't have any beneficial bacteria in it. Thats wayyy to small for... I forget how many fish you have in there but I know ones a black Molly, and they require a tank of 20 gallons or more. So that should give you a better idea on just how small your tank is.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

So a 2 gallon tank. You're pretty lucky even the molly has survived since the ammonia will build up very rapidly in a small tank like that with a messier fish like the molly.

As for having a bigger tank, they actually are easier because they are bigger. As long as you learn what a "cycle" is, and do your research on appropriate fish before you buy (a lot of times the petstore will mislead you on what you should get, so that's when you come and ask us first), you should have FAR less problems. As for this one....either get yourself a bigger tank or a new home for Miss Molly. She'll get too big for that tank anyways on her own.


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

At the moment I only have a Gold Molly and A Strawberry Tetra. The woman at the pet store said that it could support a few small fish. I don't want to many, at this point. Just really want to get it up and running so I can upgrade. But I figure theres not point trying a bigger tank if I can't get 2 or three fish to live. And then I can use this smaller one as a quarinteen, kind of thing. But one step at a time right.

How long should it take for my tank to cycle? So that things live in it.

When I get ready to start up the bigger one, Is there away that I can have the tank set up and fish ready before I add fish? This way I don't spend a ton of money and time on dying fish?


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Bethaliz said:


> The woman at the pet store said that it could support a few small fish.


She would. 



> I don't want to many, at this point. Just really want to get it up and running so I can upgrade. But I figure theres not point trying a bigger tank if I can't get 2 or three fish to live. And then I can use this smaller one as a quarinteen, kind of thing. But one step at a time right.


You don't really have an option of 'having to many' because your tanks not big enough to sustain the fish you have. If you fail at a small tank, then a bigger tank would be easier for you.

You could go with a fish less cycle, you simply set the tank up put a source of ammonia in a leave it alone for 4-6 weeks. 

Never trust the people selling you things, because thats all they are doing. Selling you things and making money when you come back for more fish when they keep dying. [/quote]


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Okay. Good to know. When I talk to her next I'll just set up the bigger tank and see where we are. Do you have buy ammonia to cycle the tank? What are good scources?

But either way, I need to keep these guys living and I still want to get this tank stable, because I've been reading up thatyou should only add one or two fish at a time to any size tank. And that you should keep the new ones seperate for a little while before adding them to your main tank. Granted I've only just started really reading since my fish have been kicking the bucket, I figured I must be missing something.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=343 

This will help you understand the nitrogen cycle and make your tank fish safe. You can use fish flakes, you don't HAVE to buy ammonia.


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks, again. I have not issue buy ammonia, it self, but I have dogs, and there are way too many oops options in my house. So if it were to get droped, or something....eek. I don't think it's toxic to them (in small amounts anyway), but that's what pee smells like and I don't want an accident with it and then have dogs peeing in the house. So if there are other ways thats better.

Thanks again for the help. I'll let you know how things progress


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

You can buy bottled ammonia from a grocery store or hardware store.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

OK...no dog pee in the tank. Icky.

And understand that you need to change the water in the 2 gallon every day if you want to keep that molly in there. Personally, I'd get my butt out and get that bigger tank asap. They have MUCH better chances being in there and you doing a with-fish cycle instead of fishless.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Flashygrrl said:


> OK...no dog pee in the tank. Icky.


LOL!:rofl:


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

LOL

I didn't mean dog pee IN the tank! lol! I was thinking more, that water from the tank could spill of the bottle of ammonia could drop etc and then you have spots near your tank that smell like dog pee. Then you have dogs peeing in the house near the tank. Not so cool.

wouldn't it take longer for a big tank to cycle on a fish cycle then? Wouldn't I have better luck cycling a smaller one first?


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

It would take longer, but require less maintenance. If you want to do a fishless cycle, I would highly recommend using pure ammonia instead of fish food. I'm guessing that if your tank has a cover, and you put the ammonia somewhere high that your dogs can't get, you shouldn't have any trouble. I tried fish food with mine, and even after more than a week I didn't get any ammonia readings. Then my mother found some ammonia at Hannaford, and it only took about 10 days to cycle using that. How long has your other tank been set up? If you do daily large water changes during this time your fish would be exposed to less ammonia than if you put them in the bigger tank and started the cycle all over again which would take much longer. Just remember though, that it can take much longer for a fishless cycle, so you would have to be prepared to continue daily maintenance on the smaller tank until it is done. If you don't know exactly how to do a fishless cycle I would just look up "fishless aquarium cycle" on google and do a little research. I would explain it, but I don't have the time right now. Good luck.


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

thanks


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

Bethaliz said:


> Wouldn't I have better luck cycling a smaller one first?


See, there's the catch. Cycling your 2 gallon tank is practically impossible with that molly, because you're going to have to do practically full water changes daily or every other day just to keep them alive. To put the fish in the bigger tank, test the water daily to monitor everything and do appropriate water changes would probably make the cycle take longer but would be much healthier for them.


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

IC. Thanks for the info. When I talk to my cousin again I'll see about getting her tank. For now, I'll do the best I can with what I've got. 

I feel decidedly out of my element with this whole fish thing. Ask me anything about dogs,from breeding to whelping, training, grooming etc, I can tell you, but fish, totally different ball game. On the plus side, no eye goopies, messes in the house, nails to trim, ear hair to pluck, shows to attend. lol

Anyway, it does seem to being going ok for now (tentatively speaking, crossing my fingers.) Both Molly and Berry (the strawbery tetra) seem to be doing great. Their' even playing together! Molly all of a sudden as a ton of energy, so I'm hoping this means that things have settled down in the tank and I'll just stay on top of the water.

I was reading up on self sustaining tanks. I think they would be cool. Not because there's no work (apparently there's a lot of it), but because it would be cool to see if I could do it. I do remeber the Grade 9 science Experiement of making an ecosystem. My Group was the only one to have everything in the tank remain alive for the semester long experiment! Not that I remeber how, but if it could be done on a slightly larger scale, that could be interesting.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Bethaliz said:


> I was reading up on self sustaining tanks. I think they would be cool. Not because there's no work (apparently there's a lot of it), but because it would be cool to see if I could do it. I do remeber the Grade 9 science Experiement of making an ecosystem. My Group was the only one to have everything in the tank remain alive for the semester long experiment! Not that I remeber how, but if it could be done on a slightly larger scale, that could be interesting.


Yay  I'm so glad to hear that! Thats what kept me going when I first started fish. I was like "woah this is more complicated then I thought." But I found it really interesting, and I love that I have my own little ecosystem. Keeping fish is really cool, and I'm glad you decided to not give it!

There isn't to much work involved, mostly just weekly water changes (Once you have a bigger tank). Glad to hear Molly and Berry are feeling better too. 

What kind of dogs do you own?? I've always been interested in showing dogs, I think it would be cool. I want to show great danes though  It would be a task. Considering a great dane weighs more then me :lol: I could see that being a real drag.


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Little-Fizz said:


> Bethaliz said:
> 
> 
> > I was reading up on self sustaining tanks. I think they would be cool. Not because there's no work (apparently there's a lot of it), but because it would be cool to see if I could do it. I do remeber the Grade 9 science Experiement of making an ecosystem. My Group was the only one to have everything in the tank remain alive for the semester long experiment! Not that I remeber how, but if it could be done on a slightly larger scale, that could be interesting.
> ...


Is your ecosystem self sustaining (ish) or no? If so how did you do it? I'd like to give it a whirl. If I can get a smallish one to work (maybe 20G), than I could expand it to have groupings of both small and large fish (not extrememly large or anything a few inches or something). I just think it would be cool to have plants micro-organisims, small fish, bigger fish, that keep them selfs going. Just a like filter change here, water change there (you know things that nature does on it's own, that you can't really duplicate in a tank).

Either way I don't want to give up yet. Particularly when my fish seem to be doing better. I'm not sure if it's because they have friends, or because of the new filter or that the tank has cycled, but I'll take it. 



Little-Fizz said:


> [
> What kind of dogs do you own?? I've always been interested in showing dogs, I think it would be cool. I want to show great danes though  It would be a task. Considering a great dane weighs more then me :lol: I could see that being a real drag.


I personally only have a Shih Tzu (at the moment). She's a fab little dog. I'm in college so I can't really have more than one at this point. I'm mentoring under a local breeder and have been able to breed several litters with/for her from breeding to whelping, rasing and homing the pups. I've even helped with a few show dogs, raising, training and showing them! It's all very cool. My goal is to own some acerage in the country where I can breed and show my own dogs. I'd like to expand it tho. I would like to add larger dogs to my home. I like Dalmations and Brittany's. But I'm not quite there yet.

As for Danes, they are amazing dogs! My aunt has 2 and my cousin has one. I know a few breeders as well and they're not difficult at all. You just need to train them right away. They tend to be couch potato type dogs, although they do need considerable exercise. If you start from an 8 week old pup and you train right away, you'll have not issues because they will know not to pull and how to behave BEFORE their size is an issue.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Bethaliz said:


> Is your ecosystem self sustaining (ish) or no? If so how did you do it? I'd like to give it a whirl. If I can get a smallish one to work (maybe 20G), than I could expand it to have groupings of both small and large fish (not extrememly large or anything a few inches or something). I just think it would be cool to have plants micro-organisims, small fish, bigger fish, that keep them selfs going. Just a like filter change here, water change there (you know things that nature does on it's own, that you can't really duplicate in a tank)..


Well, my tanks is as close to self sustaining at is will get, unless of course I bought a huge canister filter that over turned the water in my tank like 50 times an hour, then I would feel safe about not doing a water change for a few weeks. But as I do not run a huge filter on my tanks I do small weekly water changes, usually 25% water changes. I did this by cycling my tank. Have you looked into the nitrogen cycle yet? Really interesting stuff.

Ok, lets say you have a 20 gallon right? It will be much easier to maintain then your two gallon bowl, the bigger the better. The bigger your tank is the longer it takes for waste to build up. Also more places for your beneficial bacteria to establish. So you cycle this 20 gallon, I recommend a fishless cycle because it sounds like you wouldn't like your fish dying (really who would?) Your going to need a water testing kit to monitor your cycling process,Don't bother wasting time and money on test strips, they are inaccurate. Might as well do it right the first time and spend a little extra on a liquid test kit, such as APIs master kit with Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, and pH. So you set your 20 gal up and add your ammonia too it then turn the filter on and it does everything else by itself, just test daily. You'll have readings of ammonia, then you will start to get nitrite readings, then finally you will know your tanks safe and ready for fish when your test results read:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5-40pmm 

Then you can begin to add fish! Slowly of course so you don't add to many fish for the bacteria to keep up with.

You can have plants if you like! plants are great, they look really nice and play a pretty big roll in your aquarium as they feed off nitrates. They may require a little extra care though, depending on the type of plants you want and the lighting you will have. The general rule for lighting in a planted aquarium is 3-5 watts per gallon. To be honest, I don't even have 3 watts per gallon, and I keep MANY plants in my tank. They don't do as well as they could, but I do add liquid fertilizers and that helps a lot. If you deicide to get serious about plants you could looking into a CO2 system too. I don't have one of those yet either, I'm looking into a DIY for it. 

Basically once you have a bigger tank and it is cycled and you start to add your fish, unless you bring home a disease from the LFS the only maintenance you will have to do is say weekly, maybe if you have good filtration and not a heavy bio load, bi weekly water changes. And say once a month rinse your filter media in the tank water to give it a little clean. You should never have to clean your filter unless theres a lot of gunk build up and its effecting the filters performance. You filter is where most of your beneficial bacteria establishes itself, and giving it a scrub down could cause a mini cycle in your tank, and thats not good. 

Also, when you get your new tank I recommend taking the Carbon out of your filter media, it's pretty much useless unless your using it to remove medications from the tank. Other then that, it just sucks up nutrients for your plants and has been known to cause hole in the head disease if left in for to long :shock: You can remove the carbon, by cutting a little but in the flossy side of the filter media and shaking the carbon out. Then you will have a reusable filter media! 

Anyways, I hope that helps, and I hope I didn't miss anything. I'll add more later if I think of something I missed. 



Bethaliz said:


> As for Danes, they are amazing dogs! My aunt has 2 and my cousin has one. I know a few breeders as well and they're not difficult at all. You just need to train them right away. They tend to be couch potato type dogs, although they do need considerable exercise. If you start from an 8 week old pup and you train right away, you'll have not issues because they will know not to pull and how to behave BEFORE their size is an issue.


Awesome! I wouldn't mind breeding my greats danes if I was ever so lucky to be able to do so. Dalmatians are very nice dogs! I've heard they need a crazy amount of exercise, and I didn't even know what a Brittany was! Well I guess I know but I didn't know thats what they were called! Very nice dogs!

As for the danes, lol I've heard very promising things about them, as far as I know pretty much the biggest concern with them is to feed them with elevated food bowls, and avoid any kind of exercise for at least an hour after they eat. I was thinking about rescuing the danes. But I might get one from a breeder and that one be the one I show. I love the look of cropped ears, but I could never bring myself to do it. So I hope maybe a dane I rescue would have cropped ears, I wouldn't feel guilty that way :wink: Anyways I'm pretty sure this post is huge, and I should probably stop talking now  Hah, good luck with your fish! I really hope you'll love your new hobby!


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Well I went to the library to return some summer reading books and I think I took out their whole fish section! lol! 

I figured maybe I should read up and get some ideas and plan things out a little better. So I have one called "The Perfect Aquarium", which helps you pick which kind of tank you want and then walks you through setting it up step by step. And I got a dozen books on types of fish, their habits etc. This way maybe I can find some colourful fish I like and then plan a tank to suit them, instead of hoping my fish live.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

When I first started out, I spent a lot of time browsing websites that had fish profiles looking at fish I liked. I took mental notes of the particular fish I liked and then figured out which ones could live together. Then, as my collection of tanks has grown, I've been able to set up systems that work well with the fish I've wanted. This is a much better approach than just buying fish at the store that catch your eye and seeing how things go. 

Here are a couple of sites I've used to get information about different fish:
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profile.html
http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/

Those sites are great for browsing through different types of fish, but they aren't exactly complete resources. For example, the aqualand site comes from the perspective of a fish store, so they have limited experience with actually keeping some of those species in permanent tanks. This limits their information somewhat. Badman's site has better information but some of the comments about the species come from people who aren't really providing the best care for their fish or who haven't had the fish for very long.

However, after you get a bunch of ideas for what fish you'd like to have, I can't stress enough how useful this forum is for asking questions about them. Most of the time, several people will have kept the fish you're considering and can tell you a lot about the fish and their requirements. People who have been in the hobby for a long time will be able to tell you whether a certain mix of fish will work or not. So, read those books, look at some websites, and come up with all of the questions you need to ask. All of this research will absolutely pay off when you've got a great tank running with healthy, happy fish.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

One more thing:

Since you're a dog person, I'm going to assume that you probably have at least some strong feelings about animal abuse. Though I don't know much about them, I like dogs, and it frustrates me to see dogs sold in pet stores that come from puppy mills and to see all of these silly crossbreeds getting sold to people just because of silly marketing schemes (like labradoodles and whatnot). 

You probably didn't know this when you bought it, but that strawberry tetra of yours is actually a white skirt tetra that has been artificially dyed a pink color. Fish that have been dyed are known to have all kinds of associated health problems, and therefore many people in the aquarium industry tend to at least shy away from dyed fish as they regard the dyeing as unnecessarily cruel. For example, the British publication Practical Fishkeeping has had an ongoing campaign against the sale of dyed fish in the UK that has had a lot of success. 

I'm not telling you how you should feel about the issue but rather informing you about it. Moral issues aside, you should be aware that the color will likely fade from your fish after a few months and that you may have to deal with health issues that an unpainted fish might not have had.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

:shock: I was wondering that the heck a strawberry tetra was... I hate tattooed fish, its gross.

Lol I didn't realize you cared so much batman!  I'm glad to hear that you are aware of what you are supporting when you buy dogs or cats from pet stores. Many people have no idea, like my sister who bought our cat from a pet store  If she had of told me where she was going to get the cat I would have told her not to. But its to late and I love my cat very much so I guess I'll just have to live with it. 

And remember, don't litter! Spay and neuter your pets 

And adopt because every pet deserves a home


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks for all the feed back.

I'm reading these books with pen and paper, so I can write down questions, idea's etc. Maybe a setchy plan of what I'd like to do. I will definately post my questions.

I did not know that my tetra was dyed :shock: :shock: :evil:
I never would have bought her, if I knew. I think it's wrong. Their God given colours are good enough for me. I guess I"ll have to make better selections in the future. I would never buy a dog/cat from a pet store. If I want a puppy I'll go to an experienced, reputable breeder (one who's loved and coddled her pups since birth and is just as "pet poopsy" as me). If I'm up for the challenge of an older pet, I'll rescue. Also, I don't even buy food from pet stores that sell dogs and cats. PetSmart is the exception, but thats only because the cat's they have are rescues and the area is operated by the local SPCA. 

Thanks for the imput and the eductaion


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## SheyFirestar (Jun 21, 2008)

im a rescue fan myself. i doubt ill ever own a pure bred dog or cat ever. not that i wouldnt like one but for the price some breeders charge i can get a dog that will make me just as happy and a few years worth of food for him . just think of all the dog toys he could have for the 700$ you saved when you saved its life .


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

*A question*

I think it's great to rescue. I encourage it, and support local efforts. If you're the type of family/person that can take in a rescue. Not everyone can, or feels they are able to cope. I would not encourage a first time pet owner, or someone unable or willing to put the work in to recuse. They can be a lot of work, although very rewarding.

I don't think it's wrong to purchase a well bred dog (normally a pup) from a responsible breeder. They do tend to cost more, but it's worth it. For my current breed, the Shih Tzu, you can by a pup from a byb or a puppy mill for $400 and a responisble breeder will probly run around $1000. I would definately spend the extra. The responsible breeder charging $1000 has health tested the parents, run genetiv tests, has shown the parents, taken all possible steps to ensure the health of their pups. So I'd rather spend the extra, because I'm sure to save it in vet bills later. Not all of them do it (there are byb's and mills that charge that much to make them look reputable), but if you look and ask the right questions, it's worth it.


Anyway back to the fish. Molly and Berry seem to be doing well. They swim around, very energetically, and play with one another. They are a pleasure to watch. The only thing is I never see Berry (the Tetra) eat. Molly is in to a routine and circles the area of the tank where I deposit the food when it's time for feeding, as it's typically at the same time every day. but I Berry doesn't. Not that it's terrbile disturbing. But I don't see her come up to eat at all. How long can they go without eating? Should I be worried? Am I just missing her eat?


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Tetras can be iffy about accepting food off the top of the water. My serpae tetras for the longest time wouldn't dare take food off the surface of the water. And now they do, but only sometimes and they go really fast up and shoot back down, half the time they miss what they were going for. But they go nuts for the sinking pellets I feed my cory cats, so you should try some sinking pellets, because she just might be to afraid to take it off the top. Glad to hear your fish are doing well!  Do you have any news on the bigger tank?


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## Bethaliz (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks  I'l have to look into the pellets.

As for a tank, I'm working on it. My cousin had just a 5 gallon and while that's better than what I have, Its not ideal. So I found a couple ads on Kijiji. One is a tall 15 gallon, but I"m not really thrilled about the tall bit. The other is a 10 gallon with all the bits and bobs. So I'm looking into getting that one at the end of the week when I get paid


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Awesome sounds great! That will be perfect for Berry, Molly will eventually need a bigger tank. But once Molly has a new home you can add more friends for Berry to play with. I'm sure you could add a few even with Molly in the tank but I wouldn't over do it. Don't forget to cycle your new tank :wink: Good luck!


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