# New tank setup help!



## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Hello there all! I am FrightyDog! (little soething about me!)
I am a resident of southern California and fan of animals all around! I have kept everything but rodents (so far). I am just rekindling the flame for saltwater fish! I am open to many ideas because i am quite new to this...onto my questions!
---Details
I am going to be starting a 65 gallon saltwater tank! It still has not been setup but I am getting it Thursday. I would love to know great colorful fish to be added to it! Whether I want a reef or not doesn't matter because for the start I will only have Live rock. I want to know what devices to use to help it be clean and help check water parameters. It is an overflow also. I would like to know the best type of fish for me to have! Including inverts or plants if you think would be good. I had a 25 gallon (still do) before upgrading. Many fish perished in here. I had bad experiences from being inexperienced. I killed a lionfish and sea cucumber along with other non poisonous fish! So I would like to maintain these nice guys . Also for any SoCal residents I want to know the best fish stores down here. They are all pretty much similar but I have yet to find the golden snitch! 
---Summary
-What devices are needed to help maintain a healthy tank and fish?
-What inhabitants should I add to the tank?
Thank you for your time!


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

FrightyDog said:


> Hello there all! I am FrightyDog! (little soething about me!)
> I am a resident of southern California and fan of animals all around! I have kept everything but rodents (so far). I am just rekindling the flame for saltwater fish! I am open to many ideas because i am quite new to this...onto my questions!


Welcome to the Tropical Fish Keeping Forum. Thanks for bringing your questions here, we will be glad to help you however we can.



FrightyDog said:


> -What devices are needed to help maintain a healthy tank and fish?


To maintain a healthy tank, all that you need is about 1-1/2 lbs per gallon of Live Rock, a 4-6" deep sand bed and a quality protein skimmer. Are you utilizing a sump, or will all your equipment (heater and skimmer) be in the display tank? I have used the Coralife Super Skimmer, Red Sea Berlin Turbo X2 and the Marineland Seaclone skimmers all with limited success. I know that members here suggest the Hydor Slim-Skim and the AquaC Remora for a tank your size.



FrightyDog said:


> -What inhabitants should I add to the tank?


This will depend on if you are going reef or not. There are reef safe fish and fish that are not reef safe. If we have a better idea of what you are doing, we can definitely suggest the best fish for you.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

To answer your questions we will have a sump, protein skimmer, and heater(<not sure if we need one we have one). Also for now we are probably going reef-*free*.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

FrightyDog said:


> To answer your questions we will have a sump, protein skimmer, and heater(<not sure if we need one we have one). Also for now we are probably going reef-*free*.


Reef-Free:
Only one of these Dwarf Angels:
Flame Angel or
Coral Beauty or
Lemonpeel Angel

Maybe one of these tangs:
Yellow Eye Kole Tang or
Bristletooth Tang

A couple of:
Clownfish

One of these:
Six-Line Wrasse

And lastly some type of:
Goby

This is how I would stock a 65 gallon tank. I would get it up and running first and let it run for about two months before adding any fish. And that 25 gallon you have would work great as a Quarantine tank that you can keep the fish in isolation before adding them to the display tank. This will stop outside contaminants from entering your system.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Our friend owns a fish store and he is going to come in and set up the tank and come weekly to maintain it. He said we would just have to wait a week...Is that true? He is a professional all his fish are healthy


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## RSully (Nov 22, 2012)

If he's starting your tank with actual Live rock (truly cured LR) then yes, you will be able to add fish and inverts within a week, if not sooner. I started my tank this way and never went through a cycle at all. You can encounter problems going this route however such as unwanted hitchhikers, not to mention the cost of going this way.



FrightyDog said:


> Our friend owns a fish store and he is going to come in and set up the tank and come weekly to maintain it. He said we would just have to wait a week...Is that true? He is a professional all his fish are healthy


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

RSully said:


> If he's starting your tank with actual Live rock (truly cured LR) then yes, you will be able to add fish and inverts within a week, if not sooner. I started my tank this way and never went through a cycle at all. You can encounter problems going this route however such as unwanted hitchhikers, not to mention the cost of going this way.


I agree that if he adds cured live rock and sand that his tank will have cycled within a week. Maybe two. But that isn't why I suggest waiting two months to add a fish.

Rome was not built in a day, and I always say, "nothing good happens fast in an aquarium." Especially a Marine tank. My first tank was set up and in two weeks I had added my first fish. It was a Red-Headed Fairy Wrasse. That fish lasted a long time. I also added two clowns, a Polaris Goby, a Six-Line Wrasse and various inverts, such as shrimp and crabs and snails within the first two months. I started adding coral within the first three months and in six months I had a full reef tank going. 

I started having problems. Mainly because I never took the time to make sure I understood how to properly test in an aquarium. I tested Nitrates and Nitrites and Ammonia and pH. Nitrates would hover around 5-20 ppm and Nitrites and Ammonia would be zero. pH would swing and I would add buffer to correct it. It would swing again. Livestock started dying. I figured the tank was too small, so I set up a 150.

I let the 150 sit for about two months before I started switching the livestock that survived (the two clowns, a Hippo Tang, a Mandarin and a few pieces of coral). I would move some Live Rock over and let it seed the tank. Before I added any fish I made sure that my pod population was through the roof. I started testing for *Alkalinity and Calcium*. This was the key. It was a window into my aquarium that let me understand what was going on in my tank. It took me about two months to get the dosing steady before I added fish. After I started adding coral again I had a time that the Alk and Calcium was wacky again and my dosing schedule changed. 

Any addition or subtraction from the tank results in swings in Alk and Calcium. Dissolved Organic Solids are neutralized by the buffers (alkalinity) in the water. Calcium is also depleted in a similiar manner, because it is the element that bonds the buffering ions (carbonates and bicarbonates) together. 

This is why I say two months. It may take three weeks just to get the Alk and Calcium to the coreect initial levels (400-450ppm Calcium and 8-12 dKH Alkalinity). Then you add a *C*lean *U*p *C*rew. They produce waste and Alk and Calcium start to deplete again. This may take another two weeks to stabilize (and by stabilize, I mean a solid week of test results that are the same). Then you add a fish or two. Again stabilize Alk and Calcium. 

Every time you add life, this proccess must be repeated until you get a good feel as to how Alkalinity and Calcium act in your tank.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

RSully said:


> If he's starting your tank with actual Live rock (truly cured LR) then yes, you will be able to add fish and inverts within a week, if not sooner. I started my tank this way and never went through a cycle at all. You can encounter problems going this route however such as unwanted hitchhikers, not to mention the cost of going this way.


RSully is correct.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Reefing Madness said:


> Adding live stock to the tank is not going to alter the Calcium nor the Magnesium nor the ALK. Its not possible. And the salt most use will bring these levels to where they need to be, if not a simple Baking Soda or Calcium dose brings them up almost immediately.


To start, I never mentioned Magnesium. I am most concerned with Alkalinity and the effects of Dissolved Organic Solids on its buffering ability. Alkalinity is a measure of water's ability to not rapidly change pH based on introduction of acids into the water column. Fish Waste, Fish food and dead organisms are all ways that Organic Acids can enter the water column. Alkalinity naturally declines as a result of the nitrogen cycle as outlined in this article by a real saltwater expert, Randy Holmes Farley. Therefore, if it is taking a your protein skimmer a while to break in, and you are foregoing water changes in the first two months, if you add life your alkalinity declines. This is the chemistry behind home aquaria and even other members here on TFK have written articles about it.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi FrightyDog,

Welcome to the forum :wave: It looks like you came here for some good solid advice and got a boatload of attitude along with it.

Don't let this deter you from asking any and all questions necessary or sharing your experiences along the way. This forum is full of great, knowledgable, and helpful people. Wake49 is definately one of them.

Good luck getting your feet salty


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

*Update!!!*

Well that was heated @[email protected] thank you Romad! I will like it here! As to advice and listening I would love to wait! But my friend is adamant about adding fish in a week.
UPDATE
I am getting a 125 gallon now and it has been in use at their personal home for quite some time with already thriving fish. So would that speed up the time? or...? Other than that this was great advice and I will take it as needed ! ^.^ Thank you so much!


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

FrightyDog said:


> Well that was heated @[email protected] thank you Romad! I will like it here! As to advice and listening I would love to wait! But my friend is adamant about adding fish in a week.


I apologize about this little argument. I moved it to its own thread as not to highjack yours. I was half of this argument and I hope it doesn't give you a bad impression of our forum. We are a good bunch of people here that usually get along... Again, I am sorry.



FrightyDog said:


> UPDATE
> I am getting a 125 gallon now and it has been in use at their personal home for quite some time with already thriving fish. So would that speed up the time? or...? Other than that this was great advice and I will take it as needed ! ^.^ Thank you so much!


Is it a breakdown and then set right back up at your house? I don't think this will be a problem. There might be a mini-cycle depending on the amount of time it takes to get from his house to yours. Is he running a Deep Sand Bed? The complete mix up and replacement of his sand bed could also create a cycle where you will see a short ammonia spike. I think you should be ok though.

We want pictures!


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

FrightyDog said:


> UPDATE
> I am getting a 125 gallon now and it has been in use at their personal home for quite some time with already thriving fish.


What fish are in there? Is this tank a reef?

I will definitely update the list of what you can put in this tank once you let me know what is already in it.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

wake49 said:


> We are a good bunch of people here that usually get along... Again, I am sorry.


Just like fish 
Anyways I am not sure. He emptied it out yesterday and we are recieving it friday. I believe we will not have a reef. But tomorrow I will upload pictures


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

FrightyDog said:


> Just like fish
> Anyways I am not sure. He emptied it out yesterday and we are recieving it friday. I believe we will not have a reef. But tomorrow I will upload pictures


Alright! I can't wait to see them!


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Sorry for the lag. The guy canceled on us and we are trying to get our own cheap 125 gallon tnak D;


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Keep me updated!


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Kind of off topic >.> My 28 gallon saltwater just finished cycling, and all the hitchiker decide to come out to play. What are they? And are they dangerous? We see lots of flea like things. A few bigger shrimp things. Something that looks like snowflakes and on the wall of the tank. Some baby snails. A black snail (what is this? I dont even..), and LOTS of sperm looking creatures swimming. We currently have the live rock, hermit crab, 4 turbo snails, and 1 blood red fire shrimp. Do the hitchhikers bother them (I saw the sperm creatures in one snails shell before the snail put all of itself out there)? and Should I worry? I have some pictures if you want to identitfy
Edit: After reasearch i beliebe the fleas are some type of plankton, the shrimp things are amphipods, The snowflake is a hydroid, and then snails. I have pictures as well


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

All these things are good. The fleas are copepods. I am not sure what the "sperm" things are, I will have to see a pic...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bohmert (May 26, 2012)

Everyone keeps talking about copepod I have a 29g reef tank 5mnths old even had put a bottle of them in for a scooter that did not survive. Would I see them on a daily bases if I had them?


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Did you use "Tigger Pods"? They are collected from cold California waters and cannot really survive in reef tank temps. The best thing to do is get a scoop of live sand or live rock rubble from your LFS and throw that in your tank.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

I Nelieve TheyAre Also Plankton


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