# Too much light and filtration/current?



## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

So, I've got a 20 gal tall (24x12x16) currently moderately planted and housing 4 harlequin rasboras, 6 glowlight tetras, and a farlowella. After reading some posts here, I'm starting to think it has too much light (T-5 HO, 2x24 watt bulbs) and too much current (Fluval 105) for my fish (or any fish I would like to keep-tetras, corys, rasboras, possibly dwarf cichlids). My fish do seem "restless", constantly swimming and chasing each other around. I've seen videos where the fish, even those that are more active by nature are more sedate and calm.

My question is, would just changing to a larger tank, but keeping my other equipment, "dilute" the light and current enough to make for a better environment for my fish? I'd rather buy a bigger tank than new light and filter and pack away in a closet the $200 worth of equipment I currently have.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Quantum said:


> So, I've got a 20 gal tall (24x12x16) currently moderately planted and housing 4 harlequin rasboras, 6 glowlight tetras, and a farlowella. After reading some posts here, I'm starting to think it has too much light (T-5 HO, 2x24 watt bulbs) and too much current (Fluval 105) for my fish (or any fish I would like to keep-tetras, corys, rasboras, possibly dwarf cichlids). My fish do seem "restless", constantly swimming and chasing each other around. I've seen videos where the fish, even those that are more active by nature are more sedate and calm.
> 
> My question is, would just changing to a larger tank, but keeping my other equipment, "dilute" the light and current enough to make for a better environment for my fish? I'd rather buy a bigger tank than new light and filter and pack away in a closet the $200 worth of equipment I currently have.


 
If the tank does not have CO2 injection then yes,I believe you have quite a bit of light. If algae is problem, then this could be a factor.
I do not believe a filter rated for up to 25 gallons such as the one you have ,,is too much filtration or current for the fish mentioned.
Most of the fish mentioned however do prefer to be in larger groups, and this could be more easily done in larger tank without compromising water quality which can be problematic in smaller tanks with numerous fish.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

First, may I welcome you to Tropical Fish Keeping forum. Nice to have you with us.

You have way too much light over a 20g. Even one of those tubes would be excessive. This will absolutely cause algae problems, and this is definitely stressful on forest fish. Floating plants can help, but you need to go further than that.

If you get a larger tank, fine; but how will the light fit? Most larger tanks will be longer, and I would expect the fixture wouldn't fit the tank, or if did sit on top somehow [it needs to rest on the tank frame...] the light would be concentrated in one spot. Any chance you can return it?

Incandescent fixtures/hoods for a 20g tall are not expensive; I just got one for my 20g tall. Incandescent (the screw-in bulbs) are cheaper than fluorescent, and with two 10w Compact Fluorescent daylight 6500K bulbs, provide ideal plant light sufficient for the tank.

The filter should be directional, so you can aim the outflow against the end wall of the tank which dissipates the flow a bit. Or use a simple sponge filter, and save the Fluval for a larger tank. If you're like most of us, more tanks will be forthcoming:lol:.

A couple more rasbora would be a good idea, even in the 20g.

Byron.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks

Algae is not too bad right now, there is some but not excessive, but it has been a problem in the past (the tank has been set up and running for a couple of years).

I was thinking mainly about the fish and trying to figure out their surprising aggression (rasboras are long time residents, glowlights and farlowella new additions).

I only have room for a tank with a footprint of 30"x12" max (don't want to buy a new stand). So that means a 30x12x18 29 gal, which would hardly seem worth the effort, or a 30x12x22, which is called either a 40 gal or 37 gal, but is actually 34 (if my cubic inch to gal conversion is correct). My light currently sits on a glass lid and I could have the same for the larger tank. There would be some areas in the upper corners that wouldn't get much light, but only 3" per side, I wouldn't consider it if I were thinking about a 36"' tank. The taller tank would give me more room for floating plants or tall growing planted ones that eventually grow horizontally across the surface.

The new hood would obviously be the easier and cheaper way to go and I'll look into it. Are you talking about just a regular incandescent fixture with the regular bulbs replaced with CFLs like the ones from the hardware store or something specific for aquarium use?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Algae is not too bad right now, there is some but not excessive, but it has been a problem in the past (the tank has been set up and running for a couple of years).


Do you have live plants? How long are the lights on? Something isn't adding up here.



> I was thinking mainly about the fish and trying to figure out their surprising aggression (rasboras are long time residents, glowlights and farlowella new additions).


A recent scientific study has proven that even "peaceful" fish can become aggressive when kept in too small a group (the study concluded less than 5 for the species they tested) and naturally-aggressive fish tend to be much more aggressive (angelfish for example). Also, too small a space (to the fish's thinking) caused the same result.

Such aggression is caused by stress. And stress can be brought on by other factors too, like bright lighting and water movement. Aggression is the fish's only way of "fighting back." Put simply, the fish is stressed by having to endure this or that, and it lashes out in sheer frustration.



> I only have room for a tank with a footprint of 30"x12" max (don't want to buy a new stand). So that means a 30x12x18 29 gal, which would hardly seem worth the effort, or a 30x12x22, which is called either a 40 gal or 37 gal, but is actually 34 (if my cubic inch to gal conversion is correct). My light currently sits on a glass lid and I could have the same for the larger tank. There would be some areas in the upper corners that wouldn't get much light, but only 3" per side, I wouldn't consider it if I were thinking about a 36"' tank. The taller tank would give me more room for floating plants or tall growing planted ones that eventually grow horizontally across the surface.


I would consider the present light too much for either of these tanks too. My 33g which is 3 feet long by 1 foot wide only has one T8 30-inch 25 watt full spectrum tube, and the plants are doing well. I still have to limit the light duration to control algae. And I have half the surface covered with floating plants. T5 HO tubes are approximately 1.5 times more intense light than the same sized T8 tube in the same type (spectrum and kelvin), so two T5 HO equates to 3+ T8, which is triple the light I use, to put it in perspective. I experimented with T5 HO on my 115g 5-foot, only two 48-inch tubes, and after a week took it back for a T8 with 2 48-inch tubes.



> The new hood would obviously be the easier and cheaper way to go and I'll look into it. Are you talking about just a regular incandescent fixture with the regular bulbs replaced with CFLs like the ones from the hardware store or something specific for aquarium use?


The "old" incandescent fixtures are now popular again, and on tanks under about 4 feet are extremely practical and workable with Compact Fluorescent (screw-in) bulbs. I use GE "Daylight" 6500K bulbs, purchased from a hardware store for a few dollars for a pair, two 10w over my 10g and the same over my 20g, and the plants are thriving. Algae is non-existant in these two tanks, interestingly enough; I only have it in the larger tanks with tubes.

Byron.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes live plants (2 anubias, 2 vesuvius swords, 2 rosette swords, 1 java fern with about 10-15 leaves,1 crypt parva, 1 small crypt, and a few dwarf sag), not especially lush and I would like to add more plants. Light is on about half the day. New bulbs are a few months old one 6700K and one 5000K. Algae has been a problem in the past and I guess I now know why. Lately it has been under control, for a long time there were only 4 rasboras living there, maybe not enough nutrients for algae growth?

I had come to the conclusion that the aggession was likely due to stess (light and current) and was trying to come up with a solution while still using the light fixture and filter I had. Going to the 34 gal seemed like a possible route to take plus it would let me get more fish, just wanted to see what others thought.

I may remove one bulb and see how that works and if still too much go with the incandescent you suggested.

Looks like the filter may go also. I tried to create an oulet that distributed the flow over a larger area and the filter itself alows for some adjustment (currently at the lowest recommended level), but there still seems to be too much movement.

What do you think about a small internal filter? Marinland sells one that's adjustable from 13-66 gph, Fluval has a similarlly sized one, but I don't think it's adjustable. I'll have to do more research. I think I would prefer this to the sponge filter if functionally similar (would rather not have an air pump and bubbles).

I will add some rasboras once the glowlights have settled in. I intended to buy some more rasboras first, but the few they had at the store were pretty sorry looking so I went ahead and bought the glowlights. The twig catfish seems to be doing well. I can see where it has been grazing on algae.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

If you want to change filters, then I recommend a simple sponge filter connected to a small air pump. I run these in all my smaller tanks, up to the 33g. With plants this is all you need.

You are providing good light for plants, from what you've mentioned [thinking of the spectrum/kelvin]. I still can't understand why algae isn't worse than what you indicate. Light causes algae, nothing more. Algae will always find sufficient nutrients if light is available, unlike plants that need to be fed in order to use the light.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

Do you like the sponge filters for mechanical or biological filtration?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Quantum said:


> Do you like the sponge filters for mechanical or biological filtration?


They are excellent for both, but in the planted aquarium it is only mechanical we need, if that. Suspended particulate matter is easily filtered out of the water with sponge filters. The biological is not important with plants, though in fry tanks and such this is good. The plants tend to grab ammonia faster than the bacteria, so long as the filtration is not heavy on the biological.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

I went to a couple of pet stores (big chain stores, unfortunately there are no indepedent fish/aquarium in my area any longer) to see what they had. I was hoping to find a sponge filter driven by a small power head, if such a thing exists, as I would prefer not to have an air pump and bubbles. One thing I like about the canister filter is that it is so quiet. Neither store carried sponge filters of any type. They did have a few internal filters that were essentiallly motor driven sponge filters, the difference being that the sponge was incased in plastic and it had an intake of only a few square inches rather than the entire sponge.

They didn't have much in the way of lights either, just the standard stuff. I found an old T8 (15 watts I believe) that I had packed away in a closet. I may use it, its just so ugly compared to the sleek T5 fixture.

You think I will be fully stocked with what will be (once I get my light and filter situation squared away) 6 glowlight, 6 harlequin rasboras and the farlowella? I would like to add more if I could.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> I went to a couple of pet stores (big chain stores, unfortunately there are no indepedent fish/aquarium in my area any longer) to see what they had. I was hoping to find a sponge filter driven by a small power head, if such a thing exists, as I would prefer not to have an air pump and bubbles. One thing I like about the canister filter is that it is so quiet. Neither store carried sponge filters of any type. They did have a few internal filters that were essentiallly motor driven sponge filters, the difference being that the sponge was incased in plastic and it had an intake of only a few square inches rather than the entire sponge.


Do you remember the brand? I have an old Eheim "sponge" that hangs inside the tank in the corner, a plastic mini-canister in looks with the motor on top and the sponge below. It is a super filter; water is drawn in through a circular row of openings and expelled out the motor head. But someone told me they don't make them anymore. I've had this one for more than 15 years.



> They didn't have much in the way of lights either, just the standard stuff. I found an old T8 (15 watts I believe) that I had packed away in a closet. I may use it, its just so ugly compared to the sleek T5 fixture.


Yuo might be better online. If you're in the USA, there's Drs.Foster&Smith that have several makes of fluorescent fixtures. I've never used them, being in Canada, so I'm not "recommending" them but I do like their website, as it has loads of data on the products.



> You think I will be fully stocked with what will be (once I get my light and filter situation squared away) 6 glowlight, 6 harlequin rasboras and the farlowella? I would like to add more if I could.


Substrate fish are possible; a group of cory (5-6 of the average species, or 9-11 of the dwarf species). And possibly a group of hatchetfish for the top? The species in Carnegiella are best, smaller, and quiet. Check out Carbegiella marthae (a silver type) or Carnegiella strigata (marble). A group of 8-9 of either (not both). Or some pencilfish? Nannostomus eques would be fine, 7-8; or Nannostomus marginatus (7-8) or Nannostomus morthentaleri for some real red.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

One filter was from Marineland. It was essentially a powerhead with a sponge filter for the intake. The problem with that one was the flow rate. It was about the same as my canister. Another one was by Fluval and was similar to what you described: a plastic box with slits for water intake in which a sponge was placed with a small motor on top to pull water through the sponge, I may go back and get that one.

I cleaned up my old T8 fixture and bought a new bulb - single 15 watt tube, no Kelvin rating shown, but primary peaks at 640 and 420 nm on the spectral graph.

I think I will definitely get some corys, I like those, maybe 3 regular and 3 albino aeneus.

Thanks for the input.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Quantum said:


> One filter was from Marineland. It was essentially a powerhead with a sponge filter for the intake. The problem with that one was the flow rate. It was about the same as my canister. Another one was by Fluval and was similar to what you described: a plastic box with slits for water intake in which a sponge was placed with a small motor on top to pull water through the sponge, I may go back and get that one.
> 
> I cleaned up my old T8 fixture and bought a new bulb - single 15 watt tube, no Kelvin rating shown, but primary peaks at 640 and 420 nm on the spectral graph.
> 
> ...


Was the Fluval this one?
Aquatic products

With corys, minimum 3 per species is fine when there will be 2 or more species.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

The one that I thought was the best of the internal filters was the Fluval U1. It had foam only and looked like it had better flow (more slits in the case). There were others, similar to what you linked to, but they had things like charcoal chambers/inserts and they generally had very small intake areas.

Installed the T8 fixture and does it seem dim, which I guess it is compared to the double T5. I think the setup you described with the two 10 watt CFLs would be the right combo, so I think I will try to find one of those eventually.


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