# 'lumps' on my black widows tail.



## MykeE (May 15, 2007)

Hi guys and girls.

Recently got given a tank by a friend and have added a few more black widow tetra to co-inhabit with the kholi loach, algae eater, upsidedown catfish and shrimp.

Everything's been fine for about a month, up until a few days ago when i've noticed on one or two of the tetra, weird lumps, almost like spots, always just one on each side of the tail, but with rased white bits on them. 

I cant seem to find any sites with pics to make comparisons, but I have been told that several months ago the friend had trouble with white spot, so worried it could possibly be that, but the raised bits are looking more like a giant egg sack!

The tank was in a state when i got it, really bad algae issue that i'm slowly managing to get under control.


Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. (unfortunately i cant give you nitrate levels etc at the mo)


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## tangy (Apr 23, 2007)

do the lumps look like disks with tiny black dots? it could probably be fish lice. if you cant give us the tank levels, a pic? it could help the people here help you faster.


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## MykeE (May 15, 2007)

Well it's more like a big swelling, dark in color with whit bits. I'll attempt to get a decent photo in a bit. Why cant they just sit there and pose? It's so difficult in a rounded tank...=/


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## Captain Crab (May 13, 2007)

*Please pass the Salt*

ich is more common than white spot disease.I always recommend adding a little aquarium salt.This can clear up all kinds of stuff and is the oldest remedy.however its not the answer for everything but its worth a try.most begginers do not realize freshwater contains a bit of salt. don't quote me on this but ive heard up to teaspoon per gallon is safe.


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## NeonJulie (May 6, 2007)

I think a few of my neons have exactly that... it's just right at the end of the tail, white things sticking out on each side, before the fin. 

Everything else about them seems great - healthy appetites, intelligent, agile, beautiful color.

I've been thinking maybe this is a reoccurance of NTD, but now that you mention it, my previous batch had large white splotches and patches all over their sides, and interruption of the blue stripe. 

I'm definitely going to be checking out any possible responses here... I hope we can figure this mystery out. It might even be the same thing that has plagued my dwarf gourami's face, it looks the same, the little white pimply area, sometimes with red around the area on the Gourami. (Hard to tell since the neon's tails are naturally red.)

I'm almost positive it's not ich, since I've had that before.


EDIT: 12g, My parameters are 7.0-7.2 pH, 80ppm Soft (that's because I'm using bottled water mixture), 76-78 degrees, no ammonia or nitrites, 10-20ppm max NitrAtes. 50% water change 2x per week. Use a few tiny drops of Prime before adding back into tank. Fish are fed once sometimes twice, two small meals they consume in front of me, Tetramin color crisps. The dwarf gourami eats a big variety, but the neons don't eat anything that doesn't sink. Sometimes I can get them to eat vitamin pellets with garlic.


I'll try and take some photos tonight since I can usually get pretty close to my neons for photos.


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## Daz (Sep 20, 2006)

These things are always so difficult to pin point without pictures, could we have some please ?


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

> ich is more common than white spot disease


I was always of the mind that white spot was ich. I have found mainly UK folk call it white spot, with America and the rest of the world tending to call it ich.

Pictures would be helpful if you can, I know not everyone has a camera. Like Daz said, it is difficult without them.


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## MykeE (May 15, 2007)

I'm finding it nigh on impossible to actually get a half decent photo of this thing, it's bad enough trying to get rhe fish in focus, let alone close enough to actually see the lump.... 


and yes NeonJulie, that sounds like the problem my critters are having. If you manage to get a pic, at least i can say aye or nay.


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## Amphitrite (Sep 8, 2006)

Julie said:


> I was always of the mind that white spot was ich.


Yep, whitespot and ich (ichthyophthirius) are one and the same


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## Daz (Sep 20, 2006)

Ok possibly cotton wool disease, occurs when the scales have been damages and have become infected through neglect. But pics would really help.


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

Daz said:


> Ok possibly cotton wool disease, occurs when the scales have been damages and have become infected through neglect. But pics would really help.


Most likely suggestion I reckon.

Google it and see if the pictures resemble your fish and get back to us.


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## MykeE (May 15, 2007)

Really bad pic, but you can see the colour and shape at least.. 



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/minstar/DSCF1400.jpg


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## NeonJulie (May 6, 2007)

I would be surprised if it was a cotton-wool thing, it doesn't have an appearance like wool. Not to mention at the first sign, (this is my second batch showing this although my first had additional symptoms, and those photos may complicate the discussion), I treated the tank with the Tetracycline I'd had on me to try before.

I would have thought if it was a Flex or Columnaris thing, it might have responded, but it didn't at all. So I only did the one 5 day run.

I tried over the course of 8 weeks through different means to cure it (and no not all at once): Salt, Melafix, Pimafix, CopperSafe, Maracyn, Garlic, Maracyn II, finally Formalin for Fungus, and finally 2 weeks of daily fresh water changes. Nothing seemed to make a difference, so it was thought by then it was NTD which is why I bleach bombed the tank.


I still have 3 of those original 6 neons though - they're white patches finally went away without my noticing. How? I have no idea since they are definitely not in optimal conditions. (I thought it was hospice, but they've been in my Sickly bin for 3 months.)

Now the NEW fish who were carefully QT... they have those white bumpy patches. It looks like things are sticking out on each side of the tail, over a raised area. Most fish tails are very slim and flat, especially on these little neons, and right before the fin it bulges out with these white lumps sticking out.

Maybe it's a small development if it is cotton-wool (which is a fungus problem?) but it definitely is defined little bumps emerging from a larger one, not cotton in appearance at all.


In my Googling, I'm actually wondering if it's maybe Lymphocystis....



EDIT: You couldn't call what I do for my tank "neglect." Everyone I know thinks I'm weird. Daily, every-other-day, twice a week 50% water changes, constant NitrAte testing, thorough vac's, etc. The highest my tank has ever seen is 20ppm NitrAtes, though it's almost always 10ppm. 

And after their appearance I've switched to mostly bottled water, so I'm definitely not being cheap in trying to find the answers. 

I wish now I had taken those photos last night after the water change... I just ran out of time. :/


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## Captain Crab (May 13, 2007)

Ok ich is not more common than white spot disease.ich is more commonly called white spot disease MY BAD as rappers would say


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## NeonJulie (May 6, 2007)

Ok here goes. I got as close as I could with macro as possible... it's not quite the same as my nose stuck up at the glass :shock:, but I think I managed to show something.

I guess the good news was I went in to take the pics... and they looked pretty good today. The two or three others really aren't showing any bumps at all. This worst neon seems to have gotten a little better as well.



















Neons I can do... apparently dwarf gouramis are another matter. The best one I have is from 6 weeks ago, it still looks the same.


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## MykeE (May 15, 2007)

Well my issue seems to be something completley different, one of the fish with the lumps at the tail base is looking really thin today, gills are a bit red, staying near the surface of the water too now. The white bits in the black lump are a lot more pronounced now, looking almost like crystals embedded in the flesh. I cant get a photo of it yet due to it hiding at the back of the tank.

Think i'll be pulling the little guy out and putting him out of his misery. Will post a photo of the post mortem, see if it helps.


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## NeonJulie (May 6, 2007)

Man... how many different kinds of white lumpy bulging tail ends can there be out there?


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm really sorry to hear that.  

If you think he's suffering too much then euthanisation may be the answer. There's a sticky on humane ways to do it.

Poor wee guy.


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## MykeE (May 15, 2007)

One other is showing the same early signs, so if one sick one dies to save the others, he shall be worshipped by the other fishies as a saint... :wink:


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