# Red Sea Max - WARNING DO NOT BUY



## TheSeaWitch

I have just joined this forum as whilst browsing the web researching the Red Sea company I came across a posting from this site appaulding Red Sea and their customer service and felt I had to add a different voice in regards to this company, their product and their performance.

Unfortunately I would suggest this is a one off customer service success story as I have been dealing with this company for 1 month now after my Red Sea Max tank failed twice in 5 months resulting in the total loss of two lots of breeding stock of seahorses, which I raise for conservation and to teach preschoolers and elementary students about the reef, captive breeding and aquaculturing.

So far the company has done very little to resolve the issue. They did offer to replace all the electricals but as I could not guarantee to not have another failure and they were unable to give me any direction as to what was wrong with the tank exactly, I could not in all honesty put myself through another loss of stock hence, I declined this offer. They spoke for a short period of time about reimbursing me for the stock (approx $1,000) but that seems to have fallen by the wayside and after speaking with someone in the comany to have them take the tank away at their cost, I have just been hit with a bill for $773.00 from FedEx for shipping the tank back to Red Sea. So I now find myself in the enviable position of having spent $900+ on the tank and stand, $1000+ on stock and $773 on shipping it back to them and now I have no tank, no stock and my ownership of the tank being less than 12 months.

Hence, DO NOT BUY RED SEA. The tanks are unreliable, the company's customer service and QA is totally non existent and it would appear that whilst they talk a good game on the phone they really DO NOT stand by their product as suggested.

Today Red Sea will receive another scathing note from myself asking for an explanation as to this latest debarcle in what is becoming an increasingly aggrivating situation.


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## Cody

Wow, good to know. I have seen many people who love their RSM's, and I was planning on getting one in December. I know that a full-on report like this is way more helpful thn seeing people's tanks.

Guess it's the Solana now. :roll:


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## herefishy

I must be lucky to have lfs's fight those battles for me. Shame you don't.

I'm not a big fan of Red Sea myself. Perfecto and All-Glass have always been my tankes of choice. I do have a couple of Acrylic tanks, but, being a traditionalist at heart, I like the glass tanks.


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## iamntbatman

Plus, you can't scrape algae off the walls of an acrylic tank with a razorblade.


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## ntelligent

If you read the manual you will see that RSM does not recommend Sea Horses hippocampus as compatible because of the harsh circulation. A little bit of preparation would have avoided you these problems.


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## TheSeaWitch

In response to the posting regarding seahorses in a RSM, my seahorses did not die because they were hitting the walls or rocks due to strong currents. They also were not suffering from air in their pouches due to the high water flow. They died because the equipment whilst switched on was not functioning and I mean not only pumps but lights as well. This was an electrical fault not bad tank maintenance. My seahorses loved the tank and were thriving but interestingly enough the clean up crew within the tank also died with the seahorses and I'm pretty sure the manual does not say to put no fish or clean up crews in the tank as "it is not recommened"..


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## onefish2fish

i know this is old but i thought i would dig this up. i honestly find it hard to believe that your horses and snails died due to a pump and light failure. i can understand the horses going as they are extremely delecate and fragile but not the snails dying due to the causes you have mentioned.


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## casadrinka

*WARNING!!! - Do Not Pay too much attention to the above WARNING.*

Just had to reply to this post since it keeps popping on google when I do a "cross/tell" research for red sea max's.

I've owned 4 different Red Sea Max 34's and I've had one problem in about 3 years with these 4 systems. I'm so happy with red sea I'm even going to be purchasing a Red Sea Max 250 for myself this Christmas. I've owned the original max, 2 of the revision after that, and the 130d. The original max had its share of "issues" none really being manufacturing defects but mostly design flaws. These were corrected in future models. Just like any other products, design issues need to be addressed for a product line to survive. Red Sea has been true to this business practice. Needless to say my pump issue was resolved by red sea directly within 10 days. 

I believe this poster suffered an isolated incident. Being an author, breeder, installer and avid fan of the hobby I can promise you that the quality of Red Sea's products are above average for this industry. I have experience with almost every brand of all-in-one tanks from every manufacturer and extensive experience with standard tanks as well. I can attest that getting customer service is no more difficult with Red Sea than it has been with other companies. JBJ for example has been horrendous for me at times in the past. Other times they have been great.

The author of this post said there was an elecrical failure with the pumps and lights and their stock of seahorses died. For both systems to fail is a rarity. Check various forums and you will probably not find too many other cases if any. It could have been a bad relay outlet where the products all plug in. It could have been just a statistical fluke.

None the less, a lack of light will not kill sea horses. A lack of a day/night rythym will stress them and may cause them to become "ill" but this will not happen overnight. A lack of circulation will affect the water quality by degrading the water filtration cycle and oxygen gas exchange. This will poison tank inhabitants at different rates depending on stocking levels, the quality of life rock/biological material available, sensitivity of livestock etc. Again, this will also take some time. Some life will survive regardless. I've had inverts and fish survive in tanks with no heat, light and no circulation for weeks on end. Sea horses very sensitive to poor water conditions and may perish at a faster rate than most livestock.

Bottom line. Pumps fail. Lights fail. A conscienscious aquarist will have spare pumps and possibly even a battery backup. If space and money permits even a backup tank. I've had power outtages for a few days concurrently and had stocks of seahorses and corals survive. Why? Because I did not rely on one piece of technology to safeguard my collection. Especially not an all-in-one system. An all in one system in my opinion has no business being a breeder tank anyway. It's a show tank. Breeder and frag tanks are usually piecemeal systems - put together in a way for simplicity and easy access...usually from spare parts and equipment - with plenty of backup pieces of equipment and parts.

So if you're looking at an all in one, the RSMs will not dissapoint you. Just make sure you do your research and take precautions.


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## blackbeltmom

herefishy said:


> I must be lucky to have lfs's fight those battles for me. Shame you don't.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of Red Sea myself. Perfecto and All-Glass have always been my tankes of choice. I do have a couple of Acrylic tanks, but, being a traditionalist at heart, I like the glass tanks.



Red Sea Max tanks are glass.


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## Mikaila31

I like all-glass and other 'basic' tanks that are not crazy expensive. So I have no experience with Red Sea tanks, all their other equipment has worked fine for me. I have a pressurized CO2 system made by them that is over 4 years old now. Most of the cheap parts like plastic bubble counter/diffusier have been replaced with glass. The main expensive parts though have held up just fine. Regulator, solenoid, needle valve, and circulation pump are all still kicking strong. My solenoid tried to crap out once, after some tinkering with it plus some hard whacks on the corner of a table it came back and has been going for another year. 

All pumps and lights eventually fail, IMO proper care and maintenance is what determines how long these things last. Its hard for lights to fail completely, they are easily repairable. Heaters are the biggest failures in this hobby.


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## SinCrisis

MEGA THREAD REVIVAL!

Just my opinion, but most everything i have ever bought from RedSea has either not worked as expected or broke faster than normal. Ive come to consider their brand as a cheap/low-end aquarium products. They just haven't proven themselves to be a reliable company to buy from.


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## MNReefing

TheSeaWitch said:


> In response to the posting regarding seahorses in a RSM, my seahorses did not die because they were hitting the walls or rocks due to strong currents. They also were not suffering from air in their pouches due to the high water flow. They died because the equipment whilst switched on was not functioning and I mean not only pumps but lights as well. This was an electrical fault not bad tank maintenance. My seahorses loved the tank and were thriving but interestingly enough the clean up crew within the tank also died with the seahorses and I'm pretty sure the manual does not say to put no fish or clean up crews in the tank as "it is not recommened"..


First off, I am sorry to hear you had so much trouble. Clearly you are frustrated with all the money and time you have sunk into this situation. 

If the problem is coming about due to an electrical issue, it very well could be a situation that is somewhat unique to you. Many people so far do not seem to have the same issues. Power in your location could very well lead to your issue and that is not something RDM could do much about. without you actually running tests of how your power is in your tanks location, there is no way you can rule this out as the source. Your electrical supply might be riddled with peaks, spikes, drops, etc.. You see this a lot in locations that have a large number of lights equipment and so on running on the same leg of power. Not the same circuit, but the same leg. Your circuit might not be getting overloaded. Rather your power flow is maybe dropping to low and this can damage sensitive electrical equipment like distribution controls in the RSM. Your building itself may have been wired to handle anything your school can through at it for power requirements and still, if to many often pull to much juice in your area, it wont matter. 

If this is the case then RSM is not to blame nor should they be responsible for trying to replace your equipment at no cost to you. Again, not saying this is the case - only a possibility. I just find it odd that so many reefers had found these systems so dependable and easy to use with little issue.

I have 3 and not a lick of trouble with a single one, I do however have these systems hooked up to line conditioning UPS (uninterruptable power supply) to protect myself from electrical issue. I thought it was wise considering how much money I had investing in these systems. I felt it was foolish of me to spend several thousands of dollars and then have an issue like power leave me open to costly outages.

I LOVE my 3 RSM, 2 are the 250 and one is the 130. My corals are doing awesome - far better than I had expected actually. My SPS are doing just wonderful in both my 250s. I thought it was going to be pretty risky but I tried it in the first tank and it took off, so I have them going in two now. The 130 is a fish only for my granddaughter trigger so that is a very simple to keep tank and doesnt really taxt the systems I guess.


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## garry2702

*Just a thought*

In my understanding 
all this has been with in 5 months 
So just a question 

1 ) how often were you changing water? Were your peramiters correct for sea horses ph , salinity , amonia and so on 

2 ) how clean was your water? If the water is to clean it takes out some of the benificial bactiria

3 ) if theres no algae or detrius the smails will starve to death 

4 ) were you using tap or r/o water 

5 ) was the filters on your r/o unit if using 1 ok and stripping all chlorines out 

Not beeing funny or nothing but from what i can see things dieing is your problem not following simple rules lighting is for things to see what they are eating ( as in fish ) or photosynthisis for coral 

none of the things in ur tank would have caused things to die not unless ur skimmer was not functional but then again regular and proper water changes make a skimmer obsolete any ways 

Like i said not having a go but my opinion as i had a tank with 30 plus fish in for 9 months while i waited for my skimmer, lights ,powerheads and that was through proper testing and good sized water changes every week untill i could solve the issues i had


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## Amphibious

In the forty-six (46) years I’ve been in the SW hobby and business, I’ve learned a great deal about reefing and people.

Sometimes well meaning hobbyists make statements that are simply not true. Too often these statements go unchallenged and Newbies take them as gospel. So another false myth is promulgated as truth and the falsehood grows. It is because of this that I am compelled to correct something you stated that sounds like a fact when INFACT it is not.



garry2702 said:


> unless ur skimmer was not functional but then again regular and proper water changes make a skimmer obsolete any ways


While there are some cheap and poorly designed skimmers on the market that should be avoided, a well designed skimmer is an invaluable piece of equipment not to be dismissed because one does “regular and proper water changes”. We reefers tend to heavily stock our successful reef aquariums and consequentially pollution from heavy feeding, waste produced by our critters, uneaten food, dying critters, etc, plus questionable water source or properly serviced RO/DI units make a skimmer a necessary accessory.

Dick


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## Reefing Madness

There are exceptions to this rule, that I would argue here. Although the statement would be true for larger tanks, I would say that a tank under 30g does not need a skimmer on it. A RO/DI unit with 0 TDS coming out of it, its was to easy and cheap to do weekly water changes on these systems to keep water parameters in check. And correctly monitored, a skimmer is not necessary on these. Also, by watching your numbers on these smaller systems a larger water change can be done to alleviate water quality issues fast. Not that I don't agree that a skimmer should be used, but, there are exceptions.


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## Amphibious

I did make the assumption that we were referring to larger than 30 gal aquariums as I’m not a fan of Nano’s (anything 30gals or less) for beginners. Water parameters change too quickly for the ill informed Newbie. BUT, you are correct as long as water parameters are monitored religiously and water changes made on a regular schedule.

There is another reason for not spending money on a skimmer in a 30 and under tank. Small skimmers are notoriously inefficient, designed poorly and besides that, they don’t work very good.

Thanks for the clarification.

Dick


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## Reefing Madness

Amphibious said:


> I did make the assumption that we were referring to larger than 30 gal aquariums as I’m not a fan of Nano’s (anything 30gals or less) for beginners. Water parameters change too quickly for the ill informed Newbie. BUT, you are correct as long as water parameters are monitored religiously and water changes made on a regular schedule.
> 
> There is another reason for not spending money on a skimmer in a 30 and under tank. Small skimmers are notoriously inefficient, designed poorly and besides that, they don’t work very good.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Dick


 :thumbsup:


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