# my first SW tank a heads up needed on some things plz



## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi all

I would start by introducing myself my name is Matty i have kept all kinds of fish except SW

I am a very adept freshwater keeper and breed these for a hobby 
and have also kept pond fish for many years too.

i will be soon to start my first SW tank but need to learn somethings first 


I have a 3FT (120 liter approx)tank ready for this.

1. now so i have been told you double the filter size that you would use in a FW tank, so i am presuming that a 600liter and hour will suffice?

I have looked into the 3 main types of filtering used in SW, and opted for an internal sump type.
That i intend on making out of perspex or acrylic.

So i plan on making 3 compartments for this one for skimming, one with all of the filter media in and another for my pump.

and in regards to this i need some added info/pointers 

2. what type of filter media can be used. 
for example when i kept pond fish to save on cost's we used to use a combination of 1/2 inch lengths of hose pipe and 1/2 inch lengths of 1/4 inch coiled tubing 

so would this type of media be acceptable for SW?
and i also plan to use some small 1/2 inch or so cube's of filter type sponge along with the filer it's self.

3. gravel and substrate.

in my FW tank for example i use aquatic peat to bring the ph down for my neon's
the PH in the area would stay at nearly 8 otherwise!!!!!

SO i ask what methods can be used in SW to control this in the same kind of manor without chemicals!! ?

And is normal gravel like i use in FW ok?

4. i have a meter to measure the salt level.

But what Type of Salts Can Be Used?
And which is the best and cheapest to buy in bulk?

5. Foods now i have no clue what fish i will keep in the end but i do plan on starting with some clown fish i will then buy fish to suite them and a community style tank.

what is the difference in cost (roughly)?
and what types of main food can be given 

6. mysis shrimp i have been told are a good food treat

how easy are these to breed in comparison to brine shrimp?

7. how do i know what protein skimmer to buy for my 120 liter?

8. As i want to initially stay away from Coral are there many plant's for SW 

9. also any other tips a novice SW keeper may need to know ?

thanks in advance for any reply


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

i can only help you with a few.

for filters sumps are best.u can also use eheims filters or any other brand of canister filters.

for media crushed corals and bio balls are most commonly found in them.

gravel is ok but sand looks nicer but they are harder to be kept clean.

most use kent or seachem but other sea salts not fw salts from the local lfs will also do.

most foods come in containers like normal fw fish foods.you can get all sorts of foods.most pellet food will sufice for clown fishes.

always use damsels at the start the tank cycle.the seems to be more hardy compared to the rest.

not sure bout mysis but brine should be fine

ask the person at the lfs he can help you get a protein skimmer that suits the size of your tank.( just like hob they come in different sizes )
keep in mind some are phosphate removers they are different from protein skimmers but some look the same.

corals are the plants of the oceans so no there's no other plants you can put in but live rocks are a must for most sw tanks.

as for advice make sure you use RO water before adding the sea salt to make the mixture it's easier to get the correct water parameters.make sure the salts in the mixture is fully dissolved before adding to the tank.the salt is caustic if undiluted properly they can cause chemical burns if they come into contact with the fish.most of the time i let the pump run overnight when making a new batch of mixture.

always add ro water when you top up and only add mixture water when you do water changes as water evaporates salts don't.

hope this helps you out a bit ;-)


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhickers on Live Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way oyu go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.
Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter)
Multiple Powerheads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph powerheads.
Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume
Saltwater Test Kits. 
Reef Test Kit. Tets for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.
Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish
.Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one
Rubber kitchen gloves
Fish net
Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets
Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best.
Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock
.Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.
Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.
Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank
Heater rated for your size tank.
Saltwater Mix. 
Marine SaltSaltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurateAquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, etc.)
Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed cora. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

thanks for your reply 

however i feel you just copied and pasted them leaving more confused than ever

could you all post answers with there respective question numbering next to them 

inside my internal sump that i make is where i will house my filter which will be a canister type 

also i am in the UK so only work in liters and i dont know if i would be better using US or normal gallon if i converted the info for you as most just think that a gallon is a gallon 

my tank size convert is as follows 

120 liter OR 32 US Gallons OR 26.5 UK Gallons

oh and PS i will not be buying my protein skimmer from a pet store so they can rob me blind i will be using ebay


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## Logansbloodyclaw (Mar 30, 2012)

best thing you can do is a buy a book called salt water guide for dummies, plain english little jargon....
for live rock 1 kg for ever 10 liters of water.
sump is the best way to go.
uv sterlizer's are good.
red sea skimmer are simply to use and very effective.
power heads are a must.

and also work out what type of tank you want, reef tank fish only tank etc


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

madyotto said:


> 1. now so i have been told you double the filter size that you would use in a FW tank, so i am presuming that a 600liter and hour will suffice?
> *No. You need 1.5-2lbs of Live Rock per Gallon of water. A filter in a Salt Water Tank is not needed. They usually only become Nitrate traps.*
> 
> I have looked into the 3 main types of filtering used in SW, and opted for an internal sump type.
> ...


 Replies in RED


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

best thing you can do is a buy a book called salt water guide for dummies, plain english little jargon....
i would normally agree but i have dyspraxia and although i can read quite well i have epic problems in taking in the info if i just read hence why i appreciate you all helping me so much 

for live rock 1 kg for ever 10 liters of water.
so would i be right in thinking that live rock's help with keeping the water chemistry right in a similar way plants do in FW as they keep Nitrate levels down 

sump is the best way to go. i agree but funds force me to use an internal sump 

and also work out what type of tank you want, reef tank fish only tank etc

after looking at the reef tank wiki i will opt for a none reef tank 
but daft as it may sound can i have sea horses in a none reef tank ?



1. now so i have been told you double the filter size that you would use in a FW tank, so i am presuming that a 600liter and hour will suffice?
No. You need 1.5-2lbs of Live Rock per Gallon of water. A filter in a Salt Water Tank is not needed. They usually only become Nitrate traps.
so you mean that there is no point is using a sponge filter just a pump to pull the water through my internal sump ? 



I have looked into the 3 main types of filtering used in SW, and opted for an internal sump type.
That i intend on making out of perspex or acrylic.
Good choice: I might recommend looking at this site for a Sump reference:
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums
thanks very much i will look right now


So i plan on making 3 compartments for this one for skimming, one with all of the filter media in and another for my pump.
What about your Skimmer? Rated at twice your volume of water.
ok thanks again

and in regards to this i need some added info/pointers 

2. what type of filter media can be used. 
for example when i kept pond fish to save on cost's we used to use a combination of 1/2 inch lengths of hose pipe and 1/2 inch lengths of 1/4 inch coiled tubing 
None. You can run carbon once in awhile to polish up your water however, or run GFO ( Granular Feric Oxide) What you do need is to move 10x your water volume for a Fish Only tank, and 20x your volume + for a Reef tank. Using powerheads, which are more efficient, or a external pump, your choice.
i think you misunderstood by media i mean the filter content like the plastic style balls you see in most sumps



and i also plan to use some small 1/2 inch or so cube's of filter type sponge along with the filer it's self.
so again don't use these ?


3. gravel and substrate.
No. Don't use gravel. You should be looking at Crushed Coral, Live Sand or Araginite.
can i have some pro's and con's of these please 
i do like the idea of the sand as it looks quite clean but i bet it doesn't stay this way ?

in my FW tank for example i use aquatic peat to bring the ph down for my neon's
the PH in the area would stay at nearly 8 otherwise!!!!!
PH of 8 is fine.

SO i ask what methods can be used in SW to control this in the same kind of manor without chemicals!! ?
Using Crushed Coral, it buffers the PH for you. Many other things. The additives your going to dose your tank to keep normal levels, will also help your PH.can you explain the additives you speak of and what there job is please
Aquarium Chemistry; Calcium, KH, GH, pH, Electrolytes, Magnesium, Mineral Ions, Cations
again confused.com lol


4. i have a meter to measure the salt level.
Refractometer is best to use, or a digital slinity meter.

But what Type of Salts Can Be Used?
And which is the best and cheapest to buy in bulk?
Instant Ocean, in 200g box.i was thinking a bit larger bluk lol i am guessing 200g would not last long ?


5. Foods now i have no clue what fish i will keep in the end but i do plan on starting with some clown fish i will then buy fish to suite them and a community style tank.
All depends on the fish you plan on keeping. Stay away from flake food, it snot good for your fish. Frozen foods such as, Mysis Shrimp, Squid chunks, Cyclopese are good things to feed. Nori Sheets (algae sheets)

once again thanks so much

6. mysis shrimp i have been told are a good food treat
Not treat, a normal feeding food.
again thanks so much


how easy are these to breed in comparison to brine shrimp?
Not easy. Can be done though.

7. how do i know what protein skimmer to buy for my 120 liter?
Rated for twice your water volume.


8. As i want to initially stay away from Coral are there many plant's for SW 
Yes, there are quite a few to chose from.
Marine Plants: Saltwater Plants, Aquarium Marine Algae and Turtle Grass
Brill stuff !!

9. also any other tips a novice SW keeper may need to know ?
The things I posted above. Which is a copy and paste out of an Excel file I made. Makes it easier and shorter for me to answer a broader spectrum salt water question


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

madyotto said:


> best thing you can do is a buy a book called salt water guide for dummies, plain english little jargon....
> i would normally agree but i have dyspraxia and although i can read quite well i have epic problems in taking in the info if i just read hence why i appreciate you all helping me so much
> 
> for live rock 1 kg for ever 10 liters of water.
> ...


:-D


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> :-D


THANKS ALL I AM OF GREAT UNDERSTANDING NOW 

i have changed my mind again now and decided to opt for a home made sump and over flow box 

in my sump after a lil research and your help 

i will use live sand algee grass of some kind saw some in a pic 


so would you say that my math is about right in regards to pump size ?

i have 150 liter tank X10 = 1500 liter an hours flow 

elevated clime of approx 4FT meaning ii would need approx 2500 liter an hour (+) pump ?

Thank you all so much for your patients 

can some one post pics of crushed corel and sand plz i see lots on google but it all looks new and i want an idea of its look after been running some time thanks


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

omg after reading i'm seeing double red :lol: too many quesstion too litttle time :lol: have fun and good luck with the tank


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

madyotto said:


> THANKS ALL I AM OF GREAT UNDERSTANDING NOW
> 
> i have changed my mind again now and decided to opt for a home made sump and over flow box
> 
> ...


 I have Crushed Coral in my tank, should be able to see it in my album pictures. If not, I'll take some more for you.
Your math on your powerheads is correct, 1500lph.
Sump return on the other hand, this is based off what your overflow is going to be, depends on how many pipes are running water to your sump. If you have a 600gph 1" overflow then you need approx a 750gph return pump, that would come close with head loss to 600gph. Must know what your overflow will be in order to answer what your return will be. Best acrylic sump/fuge info out there.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> I have Crushed Coral in my tank, should be able to see it in my album pictures. If not, I'll take some more for you.
> Your math on your powerheads is correct, 1500lph.
> Sump return on the other hand, this is based off what your overflow is going to be, depends on how many pipes are running water to your sump. If you have a 600gph 1" overflow then you need approx a 750gph return pump, that would come close with head loss to 600gph. Must know what your overflow will be in order to answer what your return will be. Best acrylic sump/fuge info out there.
> Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums


thanks but due to lack of funds i am making my own overflow box 

i do plan on having a good sized pipe from this maybe 3/4 inch 

so am i right in thinking that i do not need to put the 1500 liter an hour flow through my sump and only a good proportion of it ?


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

DIY Overflow Using Only PVC Pipe (DIY OVERFLOW PROJECTS)


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> DIY Overflow Using Only PVC Pipe (DIY OVERFLOW PROJECTS)


this is brill info thanks so much i am a bit confused as to how this would keep the flow if the power was cut or if the water dropped below the fill line of the tank it would carry on to fill the sump until the bottom of the blue pipe 

i was originally going to make this one 
DIY Overflow Box
as it will auto cut off and start up again if power goes and also keep the same level in the tank do you know if the link you sent me does the same 
as it would be much easier and less nerve racking to make one with pipe rather than acrylic lol


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Oh, Melevs stuff, very good stuff, but you gotta be able to handle acrylic very good. I tried my hand at one, lil tougher than it looks.
But, the link I shsowed you does automatically start back up upon a power failure, the water sits in the U loop in the back yoiu see, and when water starts to creep back into the line, the syphon starts back up.. There are a few links out there for that type of Overflow.
My DIY PVC OVERFLOW TUBE
DIY Overflow
diy overflow pvc - Bing Images


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