# New Boesemani are Dieing



## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Well I just got a school of Boesemani in the mail yesterday (packaged very nice, but one DOA) most are doing great, but Three of the large males have died over the night. When I got them they looked like they might have a little ammonia poisioning (gasping for air at the surface) I added a bubble stone and in about 2-3 hours they had pretty much resumed as normal of behavior as one could expect from fish in a new enviroment. All the fish were swiming around before I went to bed, even eating a little. This morning there was one dead male, the biggest full colored male was swiming upside down, all others looked good, then another male started to swim upside down, then both of those died.

Any theories? All females are doing great, it is only the full-ish grown males that are having problems. Could this be that all fish were shipped in the same sized bags, but since the females are much smaller (about 1.75 to 2.25) inches they produced less waste during the 51hrs it took to get them into a quarentine tank? (I might have boofed this one because I moved all the females into my main tank (2 Boesemani 1 red eye) in my early morning daze when I got up at 3:00) 

I have been doing 8oz water changes every hour or so. Running a trickle filter with bio balls from my display tank, filled quarentine with water from my display tank, running an additional 5-15 HOB with an extra cultured bio sponge from my guppy tank, There is also substrate in the sump from my guppy tank, there are two small floaring water sprites, and some frogbit, I would think all this would keep ammonia under control (I cant find my ammonia test :-()

There also appears to be white around the mouths, and on the one of the males I can see a stringy something hanging from his front lip and one of his fins. 

I'll try to post some pics when I get home.

Any help would be awesome! If I need medication please let me know so I can get the the store ASAP!!!

If I left out any important info ask me and I will reply as soon as I can if not immediatly.



Thank you very much,
Sean


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Shipper said deaths were probably due to too rapid acclimation, and that the fungus around the mouths was a result of the fish being banged into the side of the bags during shipping and that potassium permanganate should help clear it right up. 

I don't know much about fish illness... Does this sound plausible?

Thanks,
Sean


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## SweetPoison (Jan 16, 2011)

Please be very careful using PP. I have seen folks wipe out their tanks using it. Wait and see if someone else chimes in!


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

That's what I was thinking. I have only used chemicals once when I first got into the hobby. They scare me. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Seanmiller09 said:


> Shipper said deaths were probably due to too rapid acclimation, and that the fungus around the mouths was a result of the fish being banged into the side of the bags during shipping and that potassium permanganate should help clear it right up.
> 
> I don't know much about fish illness... Does this sound plausible?
> 
> ...


Not fungus. The true fungus is very rare. Columnaris is my guess. Bacterial infections are a consequence of untreated injuries. I'm hesitant to advise PP. You can however try Maracyn Plus or kanamycin. Treat in the quarantine tank. Separate the ones unaffected and quarantine all new fish for four weeks bare minimum, regardless of your sources. You might regret it one day if you don't. Almost all rainbows are very prone to mycobacteriosis. I lost all my rainbows to it along with the rest of the tropicals in contact with them four years ago.


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## SweetPoison (Jan 16, 2011)

Lupin said:


> . Columnaris is my guess.




Good call ~ I am so not good at diagnosing. If it is Columnaris, it spreads very fast. Time is of the essence. My Discus came down with that ~ I have pictures you would not believe. I put my hand into their tank from a QT tank.

They were all black and white spotted and lying flat. There is a 400 post thread on SD ~ how they all walked me through treatment.

They all survived. 

Lupin has good advice ~ esp QT. I was told once: "Quarantine like the devil himself gave them to you" I STILL try to talk myself out of it!


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

I got some Seachem Kanaplex, it says to mix it with froozen food paste? If I just mix it with the water will the fish not absorb it? If I have to mix it, what can I whip up here at the house to feed to them (the LFS is way too far away to make a second trip on a friday)


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Seanmiller09 said:


> I got some Seachem Kanaplex, it says to mix it with froozen food paste? If I just mix it with the water will the fish not absorb it? If I have to mix it, what can I whip up here at the house to feed to them (the LFS is way too far away to make a second trip on a friday)


Old Fish Lady shared a recipe a while back for her homemade fish food. Use a raw shrimp, some blanched spinach and fresh garlic. Mash it all up into a fine paste and freeze it.

I'm sure you could just do the shrimp and garlic (garlic will help mask the taste of meds and it's also a natural appetite enhancer for fish). Just make sure you mash it small enough so that your fish don't get a big hunk and try to swallow it. Rainbows have pretty small mouths.

I have 5 rainbows in my community tank and they love this stuff! Good luck.


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Awesome! Thanks for the recipie.

On a sad note, another of the Males died, he was fine-ish before I went to get the meds, just checked again, dead on the bottom of the tank. 

I think I'm going to request a partial refund or additional fish for my order.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Sorry about your fish  Poor things. 

I would def. get some of my money back - I know they're not cheap.


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yeah I'm really bummed, I've lost 5 total.


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## SweetPoison (Jan 16, 2011)

Oh *hell *no. 5? On what day? First or few days later?


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Got them at 5:00pm yesterday. 1 DOA, 1 over the night, 2 a few hours after I woke up, 1 this afternoon at about 2. It was through aquabid, the guy has very good feedback so hopefuly he will be respectful enough to issue a refund.


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## SweetPoison (Jan 16, 2011)

You did acclimate properly, right? I am sure he will ask you that. And I am sure he doesn't want negative feedback so he probably will make it right some how.

So sorry about your fish though!


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

I don't know the official procedure, but I put a gallon or two of tank water in a plastic bucket, floated the bags in it for about 30 min then poured all the bags into the bucket then did a bunch of small water changes using tank water all evening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

This morning makes number 6 

All the fish in the origional quarantine tank are dead. One of the females I stupidly put in my display is dead. 

Questions:
Should I add salt to the tank? If so what concentration? Ive got a box from a while back that I stopped using because I heard it was bad for plants. 

Should I do water changes between dosing with the Kanaplex? Seachem recomends dosing every other day, so if I was doing daily water changes of about 5gal would that remove good medicine?

I haven't tried whipping up the shrimp recipie yet, I was going to make that today, but most of the fish are not eating and I doubt they can fight an infection if they do not eat anything, any sugestions for increasing the apetites? 

Im sure I have a million question on keeping these little guys alive. Total bummer. 

Thanks


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## jcinnb (Dec 5, 2010)

This story is incredibly similar to my mis-adventure with Boesemanis a month ago. Got 4, about 5 pm. Started off great, next morning one dead, that evening (2nd evening) second one dead, and all gone by three days.

I took great care in acclimating them, all arrived alive and in what appeared to be, good shape.

Just don't know. In the end, I figured they are much more fragile than I was led to believe based on what I considered extensive research. I have written them off, in the future, though they are truly awesome fish. I hate they died, but worse, I hate not having a clue why.


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Did you get them off aquabid as well?


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## jcinnb (Dec 5, 2010)

Seanmiller09 said:


> Did you get them off aquabid as well?


yes I did. The other fish I got at same time, have done great, but the rainbows just did not make it.


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Well I have lost 7.5 now.

I currently have the soon to be #8 in a bucket with clean conditioned water running an established HOB filter. I just did a 3% salt dip for about 3 min. Can anyone else thank of anything more I could be doing to try and save this little guy?

And anyhting else I could be doing to try and save the rest of them? I have done 2 doses of kanamyacin, added salt at the concentration of 1 tablespoon/5 gallon. Did a 20% water change today, and turned the heater off as soon as it had been determined to be columnaris (curently at 69deg). What else can I be doing?


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## SweetPoison (Jan 16, 2011)

Have you contacted the seller?


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Here is what he said when I asked for a partial refund:

Still no signs of any infections here, I've scoped the batch they came from and no parasites. Let me know if/when you'd like to get some more fish and I'll make sure to get you some free stuff. Just remind me of this particular situation in case I forget.

Thanks and sorry for the ordeal,

I guess thats better than nothing.


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## Curt (Jan 13, 2011)

Seanmiller09 said:


> Awesome! Thanks for the recipie.
> 
> On a sad note, another of the Males died, he was fine-ish before I went to get the meds, just checked again, dead on the bottom of the tank.
> 
> I think I'm going to request a partial refund or additional fish for my order.



Where did you order from? The male version of these fish at my LFS are 18.00 each. Well not so local fish store lol its 45 min away lol.


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## Seanmiller09 (Dec 8, 2010)

Aquabid. They are 13 at my lfs and color is terrible. Aquabid was 8 per m/f pair, great color too. The ones that survived (3) have better color than the ones I got locally and are about 2/3 the size. I'm very impressed with the stock but pissed about losing 8 fish. I was going to get rid of most of them once I selected the best stock anyhow, but in the long run the average price on those fish ended up being about 18 bucks, might as well have gone to your lfs. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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