# Starving out the snails HELP!!!



## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

I have been battling snails for quite awhile now. I know that many have said they won't hurt the plants and that if you don't over feed they will go away. Well, How do you cut out the food source for them without killing the fish? The fish need to eat and the snails always have the plants. I know they eat the plants since they have literally gone through a 25 gallon tank that was very heavily planted and now all I have left is a few floating plants. When I flick the light on in the morning there are hundreds of snails eating on the floating plants. I have entirely stopped feeding the tank for a few days but each day it seems there are more snails. Also, one of my female Guppies died and within hours, she was all but gone. Just a spine left. These are hungry snails. I have removed over a hundred already but I seem to be losing the war against these rotten things. I am not as concerned about the Mystery snails as they don't seem to reproduce so quickly but the pond snails are out of hand. HELP!!!!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Can you post a photo of these "pond snails"?


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Simply the turning lights on and they are all over the plants makes me think you have MTS. An IDK who said reduced or no feeding will make the snails go away, but snails will be the last thing to die in a tank that is not fed. As far as getting rid of them, good luck is all I can say. I tried that once and its just not worth it IMO. No snails should over run a tank though.... I have MTS, ramshorns, and another type of snail. Often with more then once kind in a tank and they never over run my tanks.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Byron said:


> Can you post a photo of these "pond snails"?


Absolutely. These are the pond snails










and these are the baby Mystery snails


















I have spent the better part of the last few hours cleaning snails out of that tank. I removed the wood and on the bottom of each piece of wood there were several hundred of the brown/red pond snails. I also picked with a tweezer another hundred or better and the gravel is still littered with them. It is as though they are coming up out of the gravel. I put the melon in there to attract more of them to it so I can remove them. Within minutes I had a dozen of them on the melon. These have eaten a 25 gallon tank FULL of plants. I won't be adding anything to this tank until I have these things under control. Any ideas to help this along would be appreciated.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Those in the first photo are ramshorn snails, not pond snails. The shell curling like a ram's antler is how they were named. Pond snails and bladder snails are basically roundish. And of course the Malaysian Trumpet or Livebearing snail is long and shaped like a cornucopia or horn of plenty (which are 2 other common names but ones I don't see much anymore). I must say I have never seen the white snail in the other photos.

There are actually several different species all commonly referred to as ramshorn because they all have the distinctive shell shape. Some are said to eat soft plants (cabomba, water sprite, etc). Some report that an apple snail will eat ramshorns, and some loaches, gourami, etc. will too.

Mikaila is correct, getting rid of these is not easy. Baiting them overnight with lettuce is said to be one method. They are egg layers, so look for their gelatinous egg masses on plant leaves (undersides) and pull them off before they can hatch.

Byron.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

I have these little buggers all over my tank but damage to my plants is very minimal, I have a good amount of algae in my tanks so this probably keeps them happy with out taking it out on my plants. I would just keep baiting and pulling them out on a daily basis unless you are dead set determined to kill all of them.

I want to say that white one is probably a ramshorn too looking at the shell but it might just be an albino.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

The white ones are baby Mystery Snails. I have adult Mystery Snails and the babies have the exact same shape shell as the parents. Also, when they get slightly larger they seem to start turning more of the Grey/blue like the parents. At least that is what I am noticing so far. 

I wasn't sure what the others were, I guess it was someone on this forum that had told me they were just common pond snails. I will read more about Ramshorn snails. I literally have removed over a thousand snails already and there are still many more. I am putting slices of melon in and removing them when they fill. It only takes a short time for each piece of melon to have a few dozen snails on it. I remember when the first hitch hiker showed up and I was freaked. People here calmed me down some but I am back to my complete distaste for snails. I mean, other then my Mystery snails, I don't mind them. They are not taking over the whole tank and I have never noted them damaging the plants. These nasty little buggers however were uninvited and are taking over. That is not acceptable in my opinion. So.... I will continue to remove snails each day until I see no more of them. I had added my Gourami to this tank for awhile in hopes she would downsize the number of Guppy fry and snails but she is a gentle girl and wouldn't have any of it. Even without food for a few days.

Here is a little better picture of the white ones shells 








on here you can see the shapes better.


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## Chicklet (Feb 9, 2009)

Rams


In my book these are all curses, not worth messing with especially if you plan to have any plants such as watersprite in your tank. Most people only end up regretting they let them go, 1 looks cute, But give it a week or two and it's another story altogether, If theirs anything eatable in a tank they will eat it, everything else will die before they do, 

In my bare tanks that house nothing other than a fake floating plant, no gravel, nodda, and 1 very small feeding of food each day to my live bearers and these guys seem to stay under control. any other tank and they explode. Best time to check and see just how plastered you are with them is a few hours after lights out, Tanks that I thought had only a few the walls were plastered in them. It's not only the trumpets that come out mostly at night. 

I warn everybody that says they have a new occupant, But I guess thats were we all fall for the innocents of 1 little tiny thing can't be so bad, Well they certainly can be,

I had a very long conversation on 1 forum with a young man that swore these snails never went out of control or would ever touch a plant, Stated he even had lots of plants with his, It was the fault of over feeding.

Well it taught me a lesson when I happened to be at his house several months later,
He housed his pest snails in bare bottom tanks with ONLY moss type plants, not as he stated in his posts, I held my tongue!.

So many people say your over feeding when you complain their out of control, thats not always the case.

I like my Apples, assassins and Malaysians.

I really like your white Apples you have there, If I could find some of them around here, I'd have me some


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Chicklet said:


> So many people say your over feeding when you complain their out of control, thats not always the case.
> 
> I like my Apples, assassins and Malaysians.
> 
> I really like your white Apples you have there, If I could find some of them around here, I'd have me some


 
Yeah, I read the over feeding thing a hundred times. I was over feeding a little because I had fry I wanted to live but I cut way back and it made no difference. I even had the fish doing a once a week fast and that made no difference the numbers just continued to increase. I also read that they don't hurt plants but I assure you, they made quick work of my heavily planted tank. One of my guppies died during the night and by morning, it was completely gone except for a spine. These snails are a curse for sure. 

As far as the White Apple/Mystery snails. They are pretty. They are almost iridescent. I am hoping to trade them in at the fish store for something that eats ramshorn snails. ha ha


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## Chicklet (Feb 9, 2009)

They do eat plants I'm in total agreement there with you,
I watched them work on totally healthy plants,
They start at the roots, They get in real close and tight, If you didn't look real close enough you'd think it was part of the actual root, When it was actually a snail.
once they destroy enough of the roots they then turn to the now dying leaves.

So ya, they only eat dead or dying plants, plants they in fact killed.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Inga, do you have any room in that tank for some new additions?? If you were to add five Yasuhikotakia sidthimunkis (dwarf chain loach) you would never have another snail in that tank again. I'm not too fond of snails and I adore loaches, so it's a win win for me. 
Maybe take the snails you do love and put them in your bigger tank and add these tiny loaches to your smaller tank? These loaches are as cute as can be, don't get much bigger than an inch and a half and are lots of fun to watch. (Your white mystery snails are gorgeous. I could get fond of those snails!)


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Chicklet said:


> They do eat plants I'm in total agreement there with you,
> I watched them work on totally healthy plants,
> They start at the roots, They get in real close and tight, If you didn't look real close enough you'd think it was part of the actual root, When it was actually a snail.
> once they destroy enough of the roots the plant becomes affected they then turn to completing the plant of by devouring the now dying plants leaves.


 
This is exactly what I have observed myself. So, short of emptying the entire tank and starting anew, how in the heck do I get rid of each and every one of them? I have them in both tanks, though the smaller tank had more of them. At least, more visible ones. The larger tank has more hiding spots. I have been picking them out of both tanks each morning when I turn the lights on in the tank. Many of them are floating or resting on floating plants at the top. 

I know that I have removed a thousand of them out of the 25 gallon tank. Many of those are as small as the tip of a led pencil and some as large as a dime, most are in between. I almost fell over when I pulled the wood out. There were hundreds on each piece of wood. I just keep dropping in new pieces of melon and removing the melon pieces loaded with snails every hour or so. There are still alot in there mixed in the gravel. I have certainly done a job on downsizing the numbers but I know if I set up the tank again, it is only a few weeks away from a population explosion again. HELPPPPPPPP!!!! :shock: :shock:


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

aunt kymmie said:


> Inga, do you have any room in that tank for some new additions?? If you were to add five Yasuhikotakia sidthimunkis (dwarf chain loach) you would never have another snail in that tank again. I'm not too fond of snails and I adore loaches, so it's a win win for me.
> Maybe take the snails you do love and put them in your bigger tank and add these tiny loaches to your smaller tank? These loaches are as cute as can be, don't get much bigger than an inch and a half and are lots of fun to watch. (Your white mystery snails are gorgeous. I could get fond of those snails!)


Hm, what do they do with Guppies and Cories? Where does one get such a fish? What water parameters do they need? They don't hurt plants? What happens when the snails run out? I mean, what do they eat then?


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Inga said:


> Hm, what do they do with Guppies and Cories? Where does one get such a fish? What water parameters do they need? They don't hurt plants? What happens when the snails run out? I mean, what do they eat then?


They are very small and stay to the bottom nearly always. They wouldn't bother with guppies and I'm not sure on the cories. These loaches are very active but keep to themselves. Cories are pretty peaceful and mellow, maybe the high level of activity displayed by them would bother cories?? I know these loaches wouldn't "go after" the cories, they just might be too rambunctious for the cories. I really don't know. 
They* do not* touch plants, and will readily eat anything offered as far as flakes, pellets, wafers, etc. They are little piggies. 
I picked mine up at the local LFS. I LOVE them. I started out with four and now have nine. When my LFS gets some more in I will probably pick up another half dozen.
My water parameters are ph 7.8, hard as concrete. My loaches do fine, have had them for years.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Kymmie, I might check into those guys. I just looked them up. It says they are peaceful so... I hope I can find some. That would be fantastic if I could take care of this problem and start replanting this tank. It looks horrid right now. I miss my plants. I shouldn't have let this go for so long but I felt bad killing the snails. I guess it is safe to say, I have gotten over it. I did in over a thousand of them today. Yikes! I could have fed an army of dwarf loaches with all of those snails.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Inga said:


> Kymmie, I might check into those guys. I just looked them up. It says they are peaceful so... I hope I can find some.


I can vouch for the fact that they are very peaceful. Most loaches like to play really, really rough with each other (sometimes I think my clowns and yoyos are going to kill each other, lol) but these little guys don't. I hope you can find some too! In your tank they will be FAT and happy.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Gosh Inga what a nightmare on snail street. I hope you get the masses down to something manageable. Those loaches sound like a good idea.

Good luck.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

aunt kymmie said:


> I can vouch for the fact that they are very peaceful. Most loaches like to play really, really rough with each other (sometimes I think my clowns and yoyos are going to kill each other, lol) but these little guys don't. I hope you can find some too! In your tank they will be FAT and happy.


 
Yeah, at this rate, they would be obese in no time. lol

Thanks Romad, I hope I can do some house cleaning in the snail department as well. I miss my plants.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

I finally ordered live plants yesterday for my 75 gallon. I sure hope they don't come with any of your buddies  I'm going to check each leaf very closely LOL.

I have 6 mystery trumpet snails in the tank and i very rarely see them. And then I might see two at most. Now you've got me wondering if the bottom of my tank is littered with snails strategically buried under the gravel. Eeeeeeeeeeeek!!


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

My ramshorns have never harmed my plants. I have them in all 3 tanks, all densely planted. IMO they are one of the best pest snails, they actually look decent. I grow and sell plants too in the same tanks with my snails and often have more plants then what I know to do with. They will defiantly eat dying plants, but I've never seen them attack or damage a healthy plant. 

Those loaches do work, but from what I have seen they are very pricey. It might depend on location, but I know they are generally expensive for a loach. Locally I have seen them for $20 each. And due to them needing a school it gets expensive fast. Its a fish that may be best ordered online.


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## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

I managed to get those little snails in my new tank and I've managed to transfer them from there into my other new tank...

What I don't understand is how they are all over the tank, ie there'll be one on the tank wall on one side, a couple on the front, one on the other side, they are spread far and wide. They are tiny and look like babies. Where are they coming from? If they were being hatched from eggs, wouldn't you expect them to be in one spot? They seem to just appear out of nowhere, spread far and wide. I've never seen a big one who could be the mother of all of these little babies, there just seem to be little babies everywhere. Where do they come from?


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## iamgray (Jul 16, 2010)

If you drop 3 pieces of melon in every time, you could get rid of them 3 times as fast! 

This whole thread terrifies me... I just got a pile of plants from someone and they were RIDDLED with snails... I took them over to a friend who has pufferfish and between the two of us, her friend, and her friend's kid, we spent almost an hour and went through every single plant picking off snails... but I've still been spotting them here and there in my tank and am not looking forward to the explosion of snails... I think I'd better start baiting them ASAP after reading all this!

Side note... can you imagine a 5 year old boy's excitement when someone shows up with a bucket full of icky wet plants and says "let's pick out snails and feed them to the pufferfish?" Aaaah, too cute!


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

iamgray said:


> If you drop 3 pieces of melon in every time, you could get rid of them 3 times as fast!
> 
> This whole thread terrifies me... I just got a pile of plants from someone and they were RIDDLED with snails... I took them over to a friend who has pufferfish and between the two of us, her friend, and her friend's kid, we spent almost an hour and went through every single plant picking off snails... but I've still been spotting them here and there in my tank and am not looking forward to the explosion of snails... I think I'd better start baiting them ASAP after reading all this!
> 
> Side note... can you imagine a 5 year old boy's excitement when someone shows up with a bucket full of icky wet plants and says "let's pick out snails and feed them to the pufferfish?" Aaaah, too cute!


This made me laugh. Oh to be a kid again :-D


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## Chicklet (Feb 9, 2009)

I found the "cucumber' melon trick worked to some degree,
But wasn't as effective as I hoped,

After awhile you get tired of everyday having to drop in a cucumber and fishing it out in the morning,

Some tanks the snail population went down, others just seemed to rebound,
All you gotta do is get tired of it or forget for a few days & the explosion is back again.

I battled those suckers it seemed like forever, Till finally I had enough,
I stripped every one of my tanks down, Threw out all the gravel/sand, every last drop!
The ornaments/ logs and all plants were passed thru my loaches tank,(the only tank that had no snails!) until I was positive they were cleaned!

In the meantime I scrubbed all the tanks down super good to destroy all those eggs you couldn't see,
I set each tank back up with absolutely nothing in most and let them run for 1 month that way, (I was super pissed of at these buggers, you betcha!) I was gonna have them eradicated one way or anther.

Anyways despite my diligence I still had those odd snails appear out of nowhere in these bare tanks,
Well I vigilantly everyday went in search of any I could find and squished them good!

My tanks since then have all been cleaned
However call me crazy I have allowed some snails in a few tanks SET WELL APART from my main tanks, These tanks are bare so I can watch the suckers closely, My fish have formed a liking to the squished snails, (any wonder) so I let these few go with intent of feeding them as treats.

I think Until you've killed everyone You got the ready making for another explosion over and over again when the time is right and your guard is down..


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

tanker said:


> I managed to get those little snails in my new tank and I've managed to transfer them from there into my other new tank...
> 
> What I don't understand is how they are all over the tank, ie there'll be one on the tank wall on one side, a couple on the front, one on the other side, they are spread far and wide. They are tiny and look like babies. Where are they coming from? If they were being hatched from eggs, wouldn't you expect them to be in one spot? They seem to just appear out of nowhere, spread far and wide. I've never seen a big one who could be the mother of all of these little babies, there just seem to be little babies everywhere. Where do they come from?


What type (species) of snail are you referring to? Malaysian Trumpet or Livebearing snails are, as the name suggests, livebearing and each snail produces young. Pond and bladder and ramshorn snails lay eggs; you can often see the clusters of eggs on plant leaves (look on the undersides) like a little blob of clear gelatin. An effective way to reduce egg-laying snails is to remove the egg masses regularly. These snails do not get very large, so you will not see huge females. Pond snails are hermaphrodites, meaning each snail can act as male or female, but not simultaneously; pond snails can also auto-fertilize themselves.

Ramshorn snails I admit are troublesome, as mentioned earlier in this thread. The others mentioned above are beneficial, extremely so. Controlling their numbers may be necessary, but I am always happy to see them in my tanks. And in 20 years I have never yet had any evidence of these snails (pond, bladder, livebearing) eating my plants. And with the hundreds of MTS I have and my heavily-planted tanks, I am sure I would have seen it long before now.

Byron.


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## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

I think they are ramshorn snails. They are tiny. I don't remember seeing anything that looked like eggs before they started appearing, far and wide. 

I saw that they had dwarf chain loaches at the LFS. They were *$26* each....


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

tanker said:


> I think they are ramshorn snails. They are tiny. I don't remember seeing anything that looked like eggs before they started appearing, far and wide.
> 
> I saw that they had dwarf chain loaches at the LFS. They were *$26* each....


You won't see the egg clusters much unless you look for them. I frequently come across them when I happen to touch the leaf of this or that plant during a water change and encounter the spongy gelatin-like blob. Visually they are not easy to see. If you look earlier in this thread, the first photo Inga posted shows ramshorn snails, the curled shell is very distinctive to this species. I don't have these and don't want them.

I do not find the dwarf loach particularly good for snail eradication. In fact, in my 33g which has a group of 5 the snails do not lessen, which is what I want in there. In my 70g I have Botia kubotai and they do eat snails, I see the empty shells. I am not a fan of getting specific fish to handle snails; unless you really like the fish, and obviously have the space for it. Loaches need to be in groups, and many get 5-6 inches so this means a 4-foot tank at the least. The dwarf species obviously manage in less space, but as I say, they are in my experience not as effective.

Byron.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

i just recently added plants to my tank and saw a blob of snail eggs break off and float by. If you are willing to spend a little money, assassins work fine, they will eat 1 snail a day, and do not breed ridiculously fast. Get a few and watch them work.


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## Chicklet (Feb 9, 2009)

Assassins are good But You'd need a Lot of them to be effective against any amount of these pest snails,

I have literally hundreds of assassins Yet my trumpet snails still gain ranks over them, as did the pond and rams before I went on a witch hunt.,
So if your going to use Assassins they may need some help with getting the mass numbers down first. By using the bait and remove tactic.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Byron said:


> I don't have these and don't want them.
> 
> .
> 
> Byron.


Are you sure? I would be willing to send you a few thousand just for the cost of shipping. ha ha

I just picked another 4-5 dozen out of the tank. My plan of attack for now is daily cleaning of the water and good cleaning of the gravel. I am using my net to net them off the walls where I can get at them. I figure that if I keep the excess food out of the gravel, I might be able to starve them out. I let the fish eat for 20 minutes and then clean the gravel real good. There is nothing in the tank right now other then some Mondo grass some floating pennywort and a bit of Wisteria floating. I have no wood in there anymore (as I found thousands hiding under the wood.) Hopefully I can get rid of them that way. I am still going to look into some dwarf loaches but I am not willing to pay a few hundred dollars for fish that may or may not do what I am hoping. Also, I have to look into whether or not the Dwarf loaches will get along with my Cories. I have temporarily moved my Cories into the big tank. They seem quite happy in there and are enjoying all the space. I thought the Rainbow shark might be an issue but, I don't think he comes out of his log too often. Pretty fish, too bad he is so shy.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Well seeing as how ramshorn snails and ponds cant burrow like mts to get away, its likely that they will be controlled a lot more by the assassins, i think that its very important to keep snails as they will clean dead plants away and leftover food. The goal, IMO, should be controlling them rather than eliminating them. When i feed less i see less mts, when i feed more, i see more mts. They can only breed as fast as their food supply will allow.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

I am a little concerned about adding more snails of any kind. I love my Mystery snails because they are cool to watch and honestly, the way they lay their eggs in obvious spots I can remove before they over populate. That said, I think I have helped out the population quite a lot. I have been doing constant scoop and dump of snails for a few weeks now. The past few days in HUGE numbers and major concentration on getting them all. I know that may never happen but, I am hopeful. For the first time in months, I don't see even one hanging on the glass. I did another 60% water change just now and rooted through the substrate kind of grinding the gravel on the bottom. I figure that will squish some of the hiders. Either way, things are looking quite a bit better. I am hoping if I do daily water changes for awhile I might be able to get rid of them all. 

I wonder what the gestation period is for ramshorn snails. I mean, how long after I stop seeing any snails before I can think I am actually safe to add plants and wood back in the tank? Any thoughts?


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Well Operation Ramshorn snail removal is well under way. I am seeing HUGE differences in the numbers. Each morning when I flick on the lights there are a few on the glass yet but not many. I usually scape those out with my net. The ones that are on the glass now are not much bigger then the tip of a lead pencil. I think I had depleted the numbers down to only having little babies in there. I am not sure how long I need to keep this up to be sure I have got them all? Any advice there? 

I have noticed through this whole thing that Guppies have got to be the stupidest fish in the world. They hold me back from my mission by constantly getting into the net. Guppies are without a doubt the easiest fish to net. Even when you do NOT want them in the net, they want to be in there. Through these efforts I have almost completely eliminated the duckweed problem in my small tank as well. How long do you guys think I need to wait before I start adding plants and wood back into the tank? I will then put a few Mystery snails back in as well. I have thought a little about getting just one or two Assassins to keep the numbers under control should they reoccur. What would keep the Assassins from over populating? Is it true that Assassins will not bother the larger Mystery snails? I was thinking If I added any, it would only be like 2 to my 25 gallon tank and maybe 4 to my large tank. Then again, maybe only 1 to the 25 then they won't be breeding at all. Thoughts anyone?


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