# Feeder Fish Opinions



## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Not sure where to put this since it does relate to fish but is an opinion based thread, not a help thread or anything.

I was wondering what people on this forum, who love fish and fish keeping, think about feeder fish. Is it not cruel to breed fish for the purpose of killing them? Of course there are tons of benefits to feeding live food to fish also. 

Every time i walk into a petstore that has feeder fish, I see this big tank, full of fish and i think to myself, wow, it must suck to live in that environment all your life and then get put into another tank with a huge fish that chases you and then kills you. 

I just feel like its an ironic situation and wanted to know what others think about it. Like if anyone agrees that it is a cruel practice or can present arguments for the other side so people like me can understand this practice better.


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Well, sometimes I do feel guilty about feeding my fish live foods.
My puffer fish gets snails, some of my fish get crickets, blackworm, mollies in my brackish tank (their fry is food).
I just try to think of it as the cycle of life.
If you think about it, the fish flakes and pellet food you buy are made from fish and other once live animals. Its just a little ground up.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

I understand the cycle of life, to kill or be killed, one must be sacrificed to allow the other to survive. However, isnt feeder fish a bit unnatural? I have a friend who introduced a puffer into a tank infested with snails and, on that particular occasion, i thought, well evolution gave the puffer the one up on you snails. however with feeders, i just feel uncomfortable because, well they were born to die, no choice, fate was decided for them, nowhere to run. I know this thinking is a bit philosophical and probably a lot of people reading this think i'm way wierd. >.<


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I understand how you feel.
I eat pigs, chickens, and cows, but if I was actually able to see them alive first, I don't think I would be able to eat it.
I guess its a good thing I am not a farmer.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

hahaha, yea I'm the same. That's why i try to go for things like free-range chicken and such when my budget allows it. Again, i want to explore people's opinions on this subject.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't think its weird at all. I think I would have a problem too, with raising one kind of fish for the sole purpose of feeding it to another kind of fish. But on the other hand, it IS natural for fish to eat other fish in the wild.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

It just comes down to the line between feeding it to your pet fish for nutrition purposes or entertainment purposes.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

it is natural for fish to eat fish, I'm trying to grasp the concept of eliminating natural variables, and if that's necessarily a natural or unnatural action. Like in the wild a large fish will prey on small fish, its common, it happens. however, the prey would have lived a natural life, where it had options of moving from one environment to another, a healthier environment. And for fish in a feeder tank, its just dismal, crowded, run from the net so you get to live another day. It just seems slightly like.. genocide... which is unnatural. 

However, i do agree with lupin it is largely on perception and reasoning when a feeder is being fed.


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## Fusion MK (May 25, 2009)

I think that if you consider something a pest (like snails) and you get a puffer to eat it, you do not feel that bad. The thing is, if you feel bad for something, you will likely be more hesitant to let something to eat something else. For example, you have a feeder goldfish. You have to feed it to your Oscar. You feel bad. The thing is, when you feed Oscar pellets to your oscar, you do not feel as bad because the pellets look nothing like the fish that had to die.

Another personal example. I lost my Stanford hoodie and I cannot find it (it's been a few weeks now). I loved that hoodie. I did (almost) everything with it. Skiing, biking, you get the idea. I would happily lose my Notre Dame hoodie to get my Stanford hoodie back (I am not... collegist... it is just the Notre Dame hoodie is WAY TOO TIGHT!!). 

You see how feeling bad works?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

not really... but your stanford hoodie wasnt designed to be lost, you just happen to lose it. I'm taking about an animal that was bred to be killed by another. I guess its also an individual eprception fo death and purpose.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

It's like raising cattle that you know someday will become steaks on someone's dinner table.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

yea... i know, thats also part of why i made this thread, its just that this if fish forum so i figured i use a fish example, since quite a few people on this forum probably use feeder fish.


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## redpaulhus (Jul 6, 2008)

SinCrisis said:


> Not sure where to put this since it does relate to fish but is an opinion based thread, not a help thread or anything.
> 
> I was wondering what people on this forum, who love fish and fish keeping, think about feeder fish. Is it not cruel to breed fish for the purpose of killing them? Of course there are tons of benefits to feeding live food to fish also.
> 
> ...


My bigger issues with common "feeder fish" is that most of them a) are nutritionally deficient and b) are disease vectors.

I have no problem with the raising of feeder animals - I culture daphnia, whiteworms, grindal worms, microworms, redworms, and snails all to feed my fishes, and I also buy crickets, mealworms, etc. In the past I've bred convicts for the sole purpose of using the young fry to feed wild caught native fishes that had not yet been weaned on to frozen foods. I've kept a number of fishes for whom a diet in fresh live worms etc is a key trigger to breeding. I've also kept the occasional big hungry fish to feed my culled fry to.

All that being said - 
a) goldfish and "rosey reds" (or "tuffies") carry high levels of thiaminase, which destroys vitamin B (thiamin) in the predator. 
b) Freshwater feeders of any sort are lacking in needed fatty acids for marine predators and should not be fed to marine fishes
c) a typical LFS "feeder fish" is generally loaded with parasites or pathogenic microbes - would you feed your dog raw, wormy, moldy meat ? 
d) finally - and most often overlooked in my mind - a huge % of the fish you see in the hobby are NOT obligate piscavores and in the wild rarely if ever consume fish. 

Gut content analysis of wild fishes has shown that many of the fishes we are stuffing full of goldfish DO NOT EAT FISH in the wild - Oscars ( most "aggressive" cichlids for that matter), for example are omivores that eat mostly inverts and plants - snails, shrimps, worms, insect nymphs, crayfish, etc are their main foods. Piranha's are a great example of scale and fin eaters that normally don't eat whole fish in the wild. 
If you keep some of the few rare fishes that really need fresh live fish in their diet (or as a stepping stone to frozen or dry foods) - it's in your fishes best interest for you to breed and raise your own feeders (swordtails, mollies, platies, guppies, etc) in carefully controlled conditions and gut-load your feeder fishes with high quality foods.

*So - why do we feed them "feeders", if feeders are bad for them ?* 

If its because we want to "see them kill" - maybe we some introspection. How much of a difference is there between making one fish kill another and making one dog kill another ? Does "entertainment" justify either action ? Are we just moronic thugs ala Micheal Vick, or are we compassionate human beings ?

Or is it just because we don't know any better ?
If we keep doing it after we learn how bad it is for our fishes - then aren't we back to being moronic thugs who get pleasure from another's pain ?


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