# A Beginner's Silly Questions about Saltwater Setups



## RBReddin75 (Jun 1, 2009)

I did a search and didn't find a "single source" thread for beginners, if there is one, will a MOD please move this thread....

This is a spot for people to ask you pros their silly questions... 

I'll start (as I seem to have a lot of them)




1. Are tank gallon sizes taken from the inside of the glass or the outside of the glass ? (in the larger tanks, this can be quite a discrepancy)


2. Do all tanks mature to the point where their sumps and displays are completely covered in algae? (cause I'm a lil OCD so I can't handle the "grungy" look very well... )


3. Do any of you running MH lights find that your heater rarely is on during the day? (you can roast marshmallows in front of the 200's)





of course, anyone else, feel free to post your questions here also... (it'll also be a good place for the "what is this" pictures)


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

1. im not sure how people do it but i use the inside of the glass. i have 1/2 glass. tanks with thinner glass wont really effect much gallon wise, again if you want to exact volume measure the inside and use a fishtank gallon calculator off the web.
2. coraline algae will grow everywhere. usually starting with powerheads and plastic things first then the back wall. i suggest an algae scrapper like a mag float to zip around the glass every day or every other day and once or twice a month use a hand scraper to get the coraline algae growing along the bottom edge on the front glass.
3. seeing your in GA the temps are bound to get hot. id guess the heater wont be on much and you may want to consider fans in your canopy for your lights or blowing over your sump or running a chiller.


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## Kellsindell (Sep 15, 2008)

RBReddin75 said:


> 2. Do all tanks mature to the point where their sumps and displays are completely covered in algae? (cause I'm a lil OCD so I can't handle the "grungy" look very well... )


It's quite potential that it can take the entire tank over, but look at this tank at Oregonreef.com . This guy is OCD and he has had the tank up for 6or7 years... you be the judge.


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## Arkamaic (May 28, 2009)

Since this topic was related to beginner's questions, no need to start a new thread and waste space.

My question:

I just got talking to my dad on the phone and he is interested in starting up a saltwater tank. He asked me how much it would cost, and being a freshwater person myself, I couldn't really give him an answer.

He was wanting something like a 75 gallon. Could anyone give me a rough estimate on the cost of the tank, stand, live sand as well as coral?

Much appreciated.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

A good estimate for a reef setup is $40 to $50 per gallon.


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## RBReddin75 (Jun 1, 2009)

talk to local fish stores (LFS) and see if they have any "used but in good condition" setups.. I know that when I was first entertaining a saltwater setup (i still haven't assembled the one that I got yet) there were several LFS guys that "knew a guy" getting rid of a tank or with one in his garage that they'd unload for $1800-$2100... and that included everything (sump, plumbing, skimmer, Ca reactor, timers, lighting, etc)... I traded a handgun for my setup that would have cost me over $4000 if I were to go buy new.. 

Saltwater fish only with live rock (FOWLR) will be a cheaper setup than trying to put together a reef tank (the main difference that I can tell is that reef tanks with hard corals have more expensive lighting systems and can add things like chillers(to cool the water during the day, while the Metal Halide lights are running), Calcium Reactors (to automate the calcium dosing process - which is usually daily for a hard coral reef)

If he can live with it... the nanocubes are a great way to get into the hobby and I've seen some great reefs in them for typically less than $500..


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

RBReddin75 said:


> 2. Do all tanks mature to the point where their sumps and displays are completely covered in algae? (cause I'm a lil OCD so I can't handle the "grungy" look very well... )


There are 2 types of algae issues in a marine aquarium. The goal is to encourage coraline algae growth, which helps to inhibit the growth of nuisance algaes. 

This is accomplished with proper maintenance and setup, which includes testing and dosing for calcium and alkalinity. It is much easier to fight algae by creating the proper environment.


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## RBReddin75 (Jun 1, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> There are 2 types of algae issues in a marine aquarium. The goal is to encourage coraline algae growth, which helps to inhibit the growth of nuisance algaes.
> 
> This is accomplished with proper maintenance and setup, which includes testing and dosing for calcium and alkalinity. It is much easier to fight algae by creating the proper environment.


after reading some more, "green hair algae" is the algae that I'm talking about.. (that typically covers sumps, lines, etc... ) and salt creep is another one of those things that I'll have to keep cleaned up.. 

I just don't want the Aquarium to be messy... I know there are messy parts, but I'm laying out the base so as to include the equipment required, yet be easy to keep clean..


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## Kellsindell (Sep 15, 2008)

my turn for a silly question! (but a real question for many so might as well get it out there too)

What's this red slime stuff on my sand bed and rocks? it goes away at night and then comes back during the day?


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

red slime algae or cyano bacteria


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## Kellsindell (Sep 15, 2008)

onefish2fish said:


> red slime algae or cyano bacteria


And how do i get rid of it? ;-)


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## RBReddin75 (Jun 1, 2009)

I'm modifying the canopy for my salwater tank (I need more room), and i'm going to put white plam on the interior to help in reflectivity (i'll use a couple reflectors also, but this will be the majority of the reflective area)

how much clearance do I need to give the 250w MH lights? is 6" off the water enough or should I make the canopy taller? 

what about things like diffuser grid (egg crate, i've seen it called) how far does that need to be from the MH lamps?


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

Kellsindell said:


> And how do i get rid of it? ;-)


 
id guess your phosphates and or nitrates are high, or a fish/snail/something just died. it could be from your food source too. do you prerinse frozen foods? are you using quality brands and not overfeeding? 
whens the last time you changed your ro/di filters, do you have a TDS meter? whens the last time you changed your carbon in the reactor? these can build up gunk too. 

after fixing the problem i would then suggest sucking out as much as you can with either a turkey baster or a thin line of tubing and call it a water change, increase flow in that area, and/or cut your lights back for the time being. 

and btw, check your pms.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

RBReddin75 said:


> what about things like diffuser grid (egg crate, i've seen it called) how far does that need to be from the MH lamps?


Why are you diffusing the MH Lamps? I would think that you would want the most light available from the lamps. And those Metal Halides get HOT!! It's possible (not probable, though) they could melt the eggcrate diffuser if too close. 



RBReddin75 said:


> how much clearance do I need to give the 250w MH lights? is 6" off the water enough or should I make the canopy taller?


6" should be enough, considering that most of the legs they produce for these fixtures are 4" or less. About the canopy. I would add some exhaust to the back of the canopy, as heat will get trapped from the metal halides and cause a rise in the tank temperature. You might want to attach a few fans to the back of the canopy.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

if your building a canopy you wouldnt need eggcrate or a screen to keep any jumping fish in. 

the fans are a good idea but its better to put them on the left and right or just on the left or just the right then in the back. you could also put a fan over the sump too.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

That's even better. That's the way my light fixture is set up, with the fans on the sides of the unit.

I have had about 4 fish jump so far, and they have been two gobies, a blenny and a wrasse. But I heard that gobies are worst for jumping...


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## RBReddin75 (Jun 1, 2009)

The canopy will be fully open on the back of the tank.. and fans will be installed on the sides, in line with the MH lamps (blowing room temperature air across them, which will exit the back of the canopy)... the fans will be on the same timer as the MH's so when they are on, the fans are on.. (I have a chiller also)

I was thinking about diffuser material to keep the fish in (but maybe I only need it across the back of the tank)... say 6" from the back edge, along the length of the tank

and the 6" i referred to is from the bottom edge of the lamp, (so it's a full 6" clear).. I've seen on another site that 8 is better... it'll depend on what the canopy looks like with 8, I may end up doing 6.. I just don't want the "tall hat" look on the canopy, and I don't want it to be too tough to lift up and reach in..


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

you could put a sheet of eggcrate (found in the light department of home depot) across the back of the canopy. this way its still open but closed in from jumping fish. with the chiller i wouldnt be worried about the back of the canopy being open or closed, i guess that one is preference.


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## mullinsd2 (Jun 4, 2009)

Ive started my own aquarium just recently and its a 45 gallon tall fowlr, and I am looking at about $500 spent already, and about another 100 for the base rock, not including fish. I did some craigslist shopping, so it can be done for less than $1,000 on a decent sized tank. You can get a 55 gallon with stand for $150 on there, but if you are looking for a bowfront or acrylic you will be spending more money. If I can give any good info. that I have learned from being on here a total of about a week or two, it would be patience and GOOD filtration.


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## RBReddin75 (Jun 1, 2009)

well the real reason that I wanted the fans was to keep the 250's from overheating the canopy itself.. i'm using commercial grade high pressure plastic laminate (white) on the underside of the canopy to assist in reflectance, I'll also have a single 36"X10" reflector mounted between the two MH lamps .... actual lamp layout will be similar to the picture shown in my introduction thread (however the wiring and installation will be much cleaner)

I like the idea of putting the diffuser material along the back of the tank


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

really quick basic picture but its to get a visual










this is the back of the tank, brown is the stand/conapy, grey is the lights/reflectors,blue is the tank,white grid is the eggcrate somehow attached along the back of it. this way it still stays open but at the same time no fish can jump.


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## cnmarland (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm quite new to the hobby but one thing I'm missing is a guide on when to add certain types of live stock. I have a 55gal tank with Fluval 305 cannister filter, Aqua C Remora hang on skimmer, plus 2 270gph power heads. I have about 90 - 100lbs of live rock and about 1 1/2" of live sand. Everything has been in place for about 2 weeks. I've done 1 10gal water change and a 5 gal water change. I've had a big (brown) diatom bloom which has since died off. I've finally started to see small "wildlife" either from the live rock or sand and I'm starting to see the growth of corraline algae.

I would like to add a few 'beginner' pieces of coral as well a cleaner inverts (shrimp, hermit crab and snails) as well as smaller fish for a community tank. However, after my cycle gets finished at what point do I add the other stock. Mainly:
When should I be adding the coral and does it need leaving before adding anything else.
Do I add fish first or inverts or one or two of each?
I understand the need for a quarantine tank so I have a small 10 gal tank with 1 piece of live rock and live sand for my quarantine. This has also been set up for about 2 weeks to ensure it is in line.

I test regularly to ensure water quality. My last test showed:
SG: 1.023
pH: 8.3
Temp: 80-81F
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10ppm
Alkalinity & Calcium both high (180ppm & 400ppm)

Cheers for advice
Chris


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

get rid of the fluval. canister filters tend to do more harm then good as they trap debris unless cleaned every other day or so. they do more harm then good. you could run it empty and just use it for more water flow. 
your sand bed is also an issue as your going to want less then 1 inch, but better yet 4 to 6 inches. you can also go bare bottom with no sand. the QT doesnt need sand and is prob. best bare bottom ( for cleaning and treating with meds ) 

a mixture of different snails should slowly start to be added. by slowly i mean as your tank matures. personally i prefer snails over having any hermit crabs ( or any crabs ) as the hermits will rip snails from their shells and crabs will eat whatever they can get a chance to eat. shrimp arnt much of cleaners but will grab scraps. theyre most for "looks" except my cleaner shrimp jumps on my fish and picks at them. 
properly stocking a tank with fish can tank months if not a year or more. its prob. best to come up with a fish list of what you wish to keep. this will help you choose what fish will get added when to avoid problems. slow and steady wins the race.
this is going to be a FOWLR? a reef?


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## cnmarland (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks for the advice, I've measured my live roack and it actually about 2 - 2 1/2" deep.
I'm planning on the tank being a reef tank, but with just a few corals such as mushroom corals, perhaps an anemone if I feel I'm up to that.

I'm planning on slow and steady. If there is one thing I've learnt from reading it is take it easy. I believe my diatom bloom has finished (at least this one). The LR I purchased was already cured hence the reduced time. I would like to wait another two weeks before adding any livestock, then only adding about 2 items per month. Safety for the livestock and cost being the drivers for me. The tank is a long term plan and I've decided that it will be at least 6 months before it is stocked, especially with my 2 per month self-imposed limit.

I'll consider a couple of snails first then rather than the crabs. What about the types of corals, once livestock is added or before? Are there also limits on the amount of coral (soft and / or hard) to add at one time?

Thanks for the advice...forum is great for newbie.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

what fish do you plan on adding. this is an important step. 

the corals you keep will depend on the lighting you get.


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## cnmarland (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm going to start off with a couple of clownfish (percula), Angel (pygmy - maybe fireball), Damsel (Green or Blue Chromis) and a blue tang. Those are my starters which I'm expecting to take about 3 to 4 months to introduce.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I would strongly suggest not adding a Blue Hippo Tang to this aquarium. 55 gallons is not enough space to keep this fish successfully. This fish can be a difficult species to begin with, and for best chances at success you really need a 125 gallon tank minimum, preferably larger.

I would advise against Tangs in a 55 gallon tank, as a general rule. However, if you are going to carry a light fish load then you might be able to add one Tang. If you do, you need to stick with Tangs of the Ctenochaetus genus. These fish are less aggressive, do better than other Tangs in smaller sized aquariums, and are better algae grazers for reef setups.


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## cnmarland (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks for that. I've heard mixed information about keeping Tangs. Once my LR has cycled, do I add the corals that I want before adding any livestock, or can I add coral as part of my slow buildup of the tank?


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I would suggest starting with some less expensive corals to see how they do. Fish and corals can be added at the same time, no big deal. Just take it slow, 2 or 3 weeks between livestock additions.

By the way, I missed this earlier. You are going to struggle keeping a Centropyge angelfish in a 55 gallon aquarium with any Tang. They compete for the same food source in the wild and often pursue each other in aquariums. This makes it critical that you only select Tangs only from the Ctenochaetus genus. I suggest a Kohl Tang or a Chevron for the hardy selections in this group. The Kohl is probably less aggressive and it is also the smallest meember of the family, which is a good thing for you. I would also strongly suggest that you add the Angelfish before the Tang. Finally, if you still decide on an Angel and a Tang in the same tank, I would rule out the Flame Angelfish, as this fish would not tolerate a Tang in such a small environment. Don't let the size fool you, the Flame Angel is highly territorial towards competing species.


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## cnmarland (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks Pasfur for the advice. Being a newbie to this I'm listening to all advice so I don't make the costly mistakes and cruelty of keeping fish that are not compatible. I'll think I'll decide on either an Angel or a Tang and base the choice on your advice.


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