# Question about Clownfish Compatibility



## Susan21

I'm new to saltwater fish-keeping and have a few questions regarding stocking. I have a 180g acrylic, fish-only tank, pictured below (the reef is artificial). The tank has a wet/dry filter, UV sterilizer and protein skimmer. Lighting is T5 HO. The tank has been set up since early August and all parameters are normal, with PH of 8.3. If you need any more info on the tank, please ask.

I just added fish yesterday, two orange ocellaris clownfish, about 2 inches in size (they are in the middle at the bottom in the picture). I don’t plan on adding any more fish for a few weeks, but am trying to decide what to add next. In that regard, can I add one or more black ocellaris clownfish with the orange ones? I’ve asked four people at various LFS’s this question…2 people said yes, 2 said no! If the answer to my first question is Yes, would I be better to add 1 black ocellaris clownfish or 2? I'm not interested in breeding. I just want everyone to get along! Thanks in advance for any replies.


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## onefish2fish

i suggest sticking with just a single pair of clowns but since your tank is large, 3, or even 4 of the same species clowns ( 2 orange, 2 black although this may be harder then having 3, 2 orange, 1 black ) it is called a harem.

your going to have to closely monitor their activity and you still may come up with a dead clown. 

i have got to ask, what does the drain in the sandbed lead to? and can you please post a sump picture?


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## Susan21

Thanks, onefish2fish. Given your comments, I think I will stick with just the 2 clowns, since it seems the safer route. As such, I now have another question, if you or someone else will indulge me. My next choice would be to add a Benggai Cardinal. Would they work with my existing clowns? And, am I correct in assuming I should stick with just one Benggai?

As for the "drain in the sandbed", I'll warn you in advance that I don't yet know too much about the tank. It was professionally installed and is being professionally maintained. I'm learning as I go along and, hopefully, over time, I'll know more. I think the drain you refer to is where the water is returned into the tank, or at least that's my assumption, since I know that the water leaves the tank at the top, via an overflow. You can see the overflow at the top right of the picture and the overflow column is hidden behind the fake coral rock.

As an aside, I could ask the people who maintain the tank my stocking questions, but I get the impression (perhaps I'm wrong) that they're trying to talk me into more complicated fish (perhaps so I'll need them more often). They roll their eyes when I speak of clownfish and the like, and they suggest fish that I know would be too difficult for a newbie like me.

Here is a picture of the equipment below, taken together with the tank, to put things in context:











Below is a close-up picture of the equipment itself...hope these help! And thanks again for your response.


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## onefish2fish

the reason i ask about the drain because it seems your tank is set up to where if the pump fails, or the power goes out the tank will siphon back down this drain, draining your main tank, overflowing your sump and onto your floor.

have you tried killing power and seeing what happens? ( be ready to turn it back on fast ) 

a bangaii cardinal would be fine, 1 male and 1 female would work. i suggest writing a list of everything you eventually would ever want in the tank, this way you can pick the order in when they should be added. im going to guess you'll eventually want larger fish like tangs and angels ( unless this will become a reef) but those should be some of the last additions.


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## Susan21

Thanks again, onefish2fish! That's a good idea with the list and, you're right, I do want an angel and a tang, although I haven't figured out which type yet. I shall get to work on my list.

I have killed the power a number of times since the tank was installed (before the fish arrived). The cabinetry was installed (built around the tank) after the tank was set up and cycling, and the cabinet guys had to turn things off a few times when they were doing their work. And then the electrician had to install another electric outlet above the tank for the lights, so we had to turn the electricity off for a little while. The first time, I called my aquarium company and asked if there would be any problem if I turned everything off for a few hours, and they said no. So, I did, and I've never had any problems. Still, I will ask about the purpose of that drain (as you call it) the next time they're here, since now I'm curious.


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## Reefing Madness

That pipe may be a return pipe that is just an open flow. But looking at it, I can't figure out how it would not all end up in the sump wiht no power. One way valve perhaps??


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## onefish2fish

Reefing Madness said:


> That pipe may be a return pipe that is just an open flow. But looking at it, I can't figure out how it would not all end up in the sump wiht no power. One way valve perhaps??


thats what i cant figure out. 

i personally would sleep much better at night with a piece of PVC going up close to the surface, with a piece of locline coming out and a small siphon break. that way if power did fail, esp. when i wasnt home, the water will only drain back to the sump up to where it catches air and breaks the siphon.


from the looks of your setup it would drain all the way down to the drain before catching any air to break the back siphon.


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## Susan21

Hmmm...I will definitely ask about this issue when the aquarium people are next here!


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## Pasfur

Susan21 said:


> Thanks again, onefish2fish! That's a good idea with the list and, you're right, I do want an angel and a tang, although I haven't figured out which type yet. I shall get to work on my list.


Angels and Tangs tend to be my area of most knowledge. I'm happy to help out if you want to brainstorm some stocking patterns.


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## Susan21

Thanks, Pasfur! Before I get to stocking patterns, I first have to figure out which fish I want. I’m working on that and I really like both angels and tangs. I have read you can only have one of each, but I’m confused as to whether that means only one tang or only one tang from the same “family”. 

For example, can I have both a Blue Tang (from the Acanthurus family) and a Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma), even though I then couldn’t put a Purple Tang (another Zebrasoma) in the mix? Or can I just have one and only one Tang in the tank? If I’m down to one and only one Tang, it’s going to be a tough decision! 

As for angels, I really love the dwarf angels, especially the Flame Angelfish and the Coral Beauty, but I think I’m going to have to pick between these two. I also really like the Queen Angel, and I think the Queen would get along with either the Flame or the Coral Beauty. Correct?


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## Reefing Madness

Susan21 said:


> Thanks, Pasfur! Before I get to stocking patterns, I first have to figure out which fish I want. I’m working on that and I really like both angels and tangs. I have read you can only have one of each, but I’m confused as to whether that means only one tang or only one tang from the same “family”.
> 
> For example, can I have both a Blue Tang (from the Acanthurus family) and a Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma), even though I then couldn’t put a Purple Tang (another Zebrasoma) in the mix? Or can I just have one and only one Tang in the tank? If I’m down to one and only one Tang, it’s going to be a tough decision!
> 
> As for angels, I really love the dwarf angels, especially the Flame Angelfish and the Coral Beauty, but I think I’m going to have to pick between these two. I also really like the Queen Angel, and I think the Queen would get along with either the Flame or the Coral Beauty. Correct?


 You can keep those Tangs you suggested. Its the one only of the same type you can't do, unless in a huge system, as in, one Purple, one Blue, one Yellow. The Angels are the same way, only one of the same Family. A Queen and a Emperor are Angels of different families. But, I am not sure about the Pygmy Angels and the Queen Angel getting along.


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## Susan21

Thanks, Reefing Madness! I'm happy to hear I can have more than 1 Tang.

I have read in a few places that you can put one of the larger angels (such as a Queen) with a dwarf angel. Anyone here able to confirm that?

I had also read you couldn't put two dwarf angels together, although in looking through some of the stocking lists of members on this Forum, I've seen a couple of people who seem to keep a Flame Angel and a Coral Beauty in the same tank. Anyone know if that's possible/advisable?

I'm still working on my list, although I'm in no rush, since I'm not going to put any more fish in my tank until I resolve my issues with heat (which I posted about in another thread).


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## Reefing Madness

Susan21 said:


> Thanks, Reefing Madness! I'm happy to hear I can have more than 1 Tang.
> 
> I have read in a few places that you can put one of the larger angels (such as a Queen) with a dwarf angel. Anyone here able to confirm that?
> 
> I had also read you couldn't put two dwarf angels together, although in looking through some of the stocking lists of members on this Forum, I've seen a couple of people who seem to keep a Flame Angel and a Coral Beauty in the same tank. Anyone know if that's possible/advisable?
> 
> I'm still working on my list, although I'm in no rush, since I'm not going to put any more fish in my tank until I resolve my issues with heat (which I posted about in another thread).


 The dwarf Angels are of the same family, its not advisable. Some do keep them, they end up with calmer fish, you could try, but...Well you know. They may get along, they may not. Heat? Water getting hot? Install fans on the backside of the tank. CPU fans.
Example, I have 4 fans on mine blowing across the water sruface, my temp is 79, in AZ, room temp is 83 home, and 87 when not home, tank stays stable.
Fluorescent Aquarium Lighting: Cooling Fans


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## Susan21

Reefing Madness said:


> The dwarf Angels are of the same family, its not advisable. Some do keep them, they end up with calmer fish, you could try, but...Well you know. They may get along, they may not. Heat? Water getting hot? Install fans on the backside of the tank. CPU fans.
> Example, I have 4 fans on mine blowing across the water sruface, my temp is 79, in AZ, room temp is 83 home, and 87 when not home, tank stays stable.
> Fluorescent Aquarium Lighting: Cooling Fans


In that case, I think I will need to choose between the Flame Angel and the Coral Beauty, in order to stay on the safe side. 

As for the heat, I'm the same person who posted in the other forum re a heat problem (you responded). Your situation makes sense -- air temps of 83 and water temps of 79. I'm in Toronto, and we're not exactly known for our heat! The outside temp is below 60 here. I'm keeping my room temp at only 65 (wearing lots of sweaters), leaving the lids off the tank to allow evaporation, using the lights sparingly and, by doing all that, the tank stays at 79.


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## Reefing Madness

Susan21 said:


> In that case, I think I will need to choose between the Flame Angel and the Coral Beauty, in order to stay on the safe side.
> 
> As for the heat, I'm the same person who posted in the other forum re a heat problem (you responded). Your situation makes sense -- air temps of 83 and water temps of 79. I'm in Toronto, and we're not exactly known for our heat! The outside temp is below 60 here. I'm keeping my room temp at only 65 (wearing lots of sweaters), leaving the lids off the tank to allow evaporation, using the lights sparingly and, by doing all that, the tank stays at 79.


 Whew, glad I was close then. I was reading your issue and for the life of me could not figure out what pump you could be using that would heat your tank that much, you had me worried. Glad it came together.


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## Pasfur

Susan21 said:


> Thanks, Pasfur! Before I get to stocking patterns, I first have to figure out which fish I want. I’m working on that and I really like both angels and tangs. I have read you can only have one of each, but I’m confused as to whether that means only one tang or only one tang from the same “family”.
> 
> For example, can I have both a Blue Tang (from the Acanthurus family) and a Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma), even though I then couldn’t put a Purple Tang (another Zebrasoma) in the mix? Or can I just have one and only one Tang in the tank? If I’m down to one and only one Tang, it’s going to be a tough decision!
> 
> As for angels, I really love the dwarf angels, especially the Flame Angelfish and the Coral Beauty, but I think I’m going to have to pick between these two. I also really like the Queen Angel, and I think the Queen would get along with either the Flame or the Coral Beauty. Correct?


There is a lot of 2nd hand information floating around on the internet (at best 2nd hand!). Most people have only kept 2 or 3 tanks in their marine fishkeeping lifetime, and have limited experience to pull from, so this isn't surprising. I will tell you that my personal experience with these 2 families is somewhat different that the "rule".

I personally have a 180 gallon tank. (link below) My tank has the following Tangs:
Yellow, Scopas, Sailfin, Clown, and Tomini. I used to have a Lipstick, but eventually removed it due to the sheer size the fish had attained. (guilt on my part) I very rarely, if ever, see any aggression between my Tangs, other than normal jockeying at feeding time. I would suggest adding the most passive genus first, which is the Ctenochaetus, then progressing to the Zebrasoma, and finally the Acanthurus. The Naso species can be added very early, or later if they are of considerable size. I would also suggest adding all members of the same genus at the same time, ESPECIALLY if you want to keep multiple Zebrasoma or Acanthurus.

Your Angels don't mix as easily, but you can keep pairs of the Centropyge species together VERY happily. It is somewhat unpredictable to keep different Centropyge species together, even in 6' tanks. You can keep a Centropyge in a tank with a large Angelfish, with the large Angel not posing a threat. In fact, it is much more likely that the Zebrasoma or Acanthurus species of Tang will cause problems for a Centropyge Angelfish. I personally do not keep a Centropyge in my 180 with my Tangs, for this very reason. I do, however, have a Majestic Angel which has mixed well.

As for mixing Large Angelfish in a tank together, this has worked for me in the past when avoiding the same genus and adding them at the same time. But I personally consider a 180 to be too small of a tank size to attempt this situation, primarily because there are very few large Angelfish which make for a good fit in a 180 gallon tank. I chose the Majestic for its behavior and maximum size, making it a much better fit than the Blue Ring, Queen, or other favorites of mine.


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## Susan21

Thanks, Pasfur! Your response was very helpful.


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## keiralio

Thanks for the informative post, great job


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## Susan21

onefish2fish said:


> i have got to ask, what does the drain in the sandbed lead to? and can you please post a sump picture?


You guys were asking about the "drain" in the sandbed and were concerned about my system overflowing. I have finally figured things out! I have two systems: an open system and a closed system. The open system comprises an internal overflow that makes its way into the sump and through a protein skimmer, and the water is returned via a return pipe at the top of the tank (you can't see it in the picture). 

The drain in the sandbed is part of the closed system, where water circulates through pipes and another filter and a UV sterilizer and then is pumped back into the tank. The closed system provides water circulation in place of powerheads. So, there's no danger of flooding when you turn it off, since the water just sits suspended in the closed system, and the water that "drains" from the sandbed never makes its way into the sump. 

Hope that made sense!


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