# Advise Please



## grey (Nov 11, 2007)

Hi:

I am new to the aquarium world and realize there is much to learn. I have been researching some of the fish and aquarium sizes and I am wondering if you could advise me on my plans.

I am looking to buy a 20 gal starter kit. It will be glass and rectangular. I think the size is approximately 24” long x 13” wide x 16” high. (I have to go back and look what equipment comes with the tank).

I do know I cant have any angel fish but will this size accommodate 6 neon tetra, 2 panda cories, 2 female guppies and 1 male guppy? All three species seem to have similar needs as far as pH, water hardness, temperature and food is concerned. 

I also hope to add java moss to cover the caves (made from clay flower pots), some brazil pennywort and cabomba carolina for any guppy fry that might be born. What still puzzles me a bit is what kind of gravel/sand (colorwise) would make them most comfortable and show off their colors to the max.

I know it will take a while before I can introduce any of the fish as the tank has to be cycled first but I am looking at what I might be able to put in to make it look and feel comfortable for the fish. 

Any help and advice would be much appreciated.

Grey


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hello ,and welcome,good to have you here. 
sounds like a nice little tank,and i think the stock
will be ok.(i'm pants at stocking someone else please advise)
plants will be nice,and i don't see a problem with
you using a small pea size gravel.


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## Oldman47 (Sep 7, 2007)

Your stocking plan sounds good as far as having compatible fish and is composed of fairly easy care fish. I'm no plant expert so can't say how that part looks but I like it whenever there are plants in an aquarium. 
Your stocking could maybe use a third corydoras catfish just to make a nice little school. I would expect to see you running neutral to slightly high pH, say 7.0 to 7.6, and about 75 to 78F on temperature. In most places that will mean you need a heater.
The dimensions of a 20 gallon tank vary quite a bit because they come as a 20 long or a 20 high. The 20H takes up less floor space and is great for small fish. It is the one that is 24 x 12 1/2 x 16 high. The 20L gives more swimming distance so you can get away with slightly larger fish and it has the advantage of a larger surface area so it can hold slightly more without being too crowded. It runs 30 inches long. It does look a little short and squatty if you are used to the modern tank proportions. Its really a question of which one you prefer.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

grey said:


> I also hope to add java moss to cover the caves (made from clay flower pots), some brazil pennywort and cabomba carolina for any guppy fry that might be born. What still puzzles me a bit is what kind of gravel/sand (colorwise) would make them most comfortable and show off their colors to the max.


Black or brown substrate will do. White can make too much glare for the fish. I would simply add fert tablets by burying them near plant roots and some liquid ferts for the Java moss.

Welcome to Fishforum.com, grey.:wave:


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## grey (Nov 11, 2007)

ghreed said:


> Your stocking plan sounds good as far as having compatible fish and is composed of fairly easy care fish. I'm no plant expert so can't say how that part looks but I like it whenever there are plants in an aquarium.
> Your stocking could maybe use a third corydoras catfish just to make a nice little school. I would expect to see you running neutral to slightly high pH, say 7.0 to 7.6, and about 75 to 78F on temperature. In most places that will mean you need a heater.
> The dimensions of a 20 gallon tank vary quite a bit because they come as a 20 long or a 20 high. The 20H takes up less floor space and is great for small fish. It is the one that is 24 x 12 1/2 x 16 high. The 20L gives more swimming distance so you can get away with slightly larger fish and it has the advantage of a larger surface area so it can hold slightly more without being too crowded. It runs 30 inches long. It does look a little short and squatty if you are used to the modern tank proportions. Its really a question of which one you prefer.


Thanks everyone for the good advice:

ghreed:

I wasnt sure if I would be overstocking if i had said more then 2 cories. I went by the addage of 1 inch per gallon and took the max size the fish would get. 
I'll be going tomorrow to check out the exact dimensions and what is included in the kit in regards to lighting and heater, etc. I may most likely have to change some stuff to better quality. 
Since I live in an apartment I am not sure exactly what will be the best option for me in regards to the tank shape..I will need to look into that a bit further.
As for the plants, I do know the moss will be a handful to manage but I like the challenge of keeping it in check. :lol: 

Lupin:

Thanks for your input on the color of the substrate...I figured it might be something along the deeper color and I hope my little cories wont fade into it. I was worried about their whiskers being damaged as well if i use too coarse a material. Would it be advisable to have coarse pebbles (pea size) as the bottom layer, then a finer layer where I can root the plants in and finally a top dark layer to show off the colors of the fish?

grey


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

grey said:


> Lupin:
> 
> Thanks for your input on the color of the substrate...I figured it might be something along the deeper color and I hope my little cories wont fade into it. I was worried about their whiskers being damaged as well if i use too coarse a material. Would it be advisable to have coarse pebbles (pea size) as the bottom layer, then a finer layer where I can root the plants in and finally a top dark layer to show off the colors of the fish?
> 
> grey


You can use the sand straight away and which you must frequently disturb to prevent it from getting compact. I would stick with 2-3 inches deep of substrate for the plants' benefit.


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

Sounds good so far. I would add 5-6 panda cories rather than just 2. They prefer to be in groups and as long as you don't slcak on maintanence I see no bioload issue.


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## grey (Nov 11, 2007)

Falina said:


> Sounds good so far. I would add 5-6 panda cories rather than just 2. They prefer to be in groups and as long as you don't slcak on maintanence I see no bioload issue.


Wouldnt the cories fight over the caves if I have that many in one tank? 

When I fist started looking at how to stock my aquarium I had thought I would use 6 neons, 6 cories and 6 guppies but I did a little math and figured that would overstock and would stress the fish out. My general idea was colour and using all 3 levels of the aquarium. 

Its a lot to take in all at once and I may change my mind on the stocking yet but the cories are a definite.


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

Nope they would not. 

Cories are a very peaceful fish and ther minimum number I would reccomend keeping is 6. They often will not even hide if they are in a larger number. They tend only to hide when they are kept in small numbers because they don't feel secure. In any case they won't squabble over any hiding place as they enjoy hanging about together while resting.


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## grey (Nov 11, 2007)

Falina said:


> Nope they would not.
> 
> Cories are a very peaceful fish and ther minimum number I would reccomend keeping is 6. They often will not even hide if they are in a larger number. They tend only to hide when they are kept in small numbers because they don't feel secure. In any case they won't squabble over any hiding place as they enjoy hanging about together while resting.


Oh good  

Ok here is another question that is really bugging me. How do you determine the harness of your water?


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

Get tests, similar to what you get to test for amonia, nitrite, nitrate etc and test ph (the lower, the softer and more acidic, the higher, the harder and more alkaline) which gives an indication. If you wanted to get further into it then buy tests for kh and gh as well. Again the higher the result, the harder the water.


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## grey (Nov 11, 2007)

I was reading up on the cycling methods and was wondering if I use the fish method with zebra danios would I still have enough room if I eliminate the neon tetra for now? I really dont want to kill the danios off once the cycling is done. Afterall they are the ones that had to put up with my mistakes.


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## grey (Nov 11, 2007)

OK ...

I just got back from store with a couple of starter kit contents...

20 Gal: (it is a long)

side filter (10-20gal)
100watt heater
24" florescent hood with bulp
5" net
water conditioning sample
floating thermometer
and food sample

25 gal (tall)

3 way valve (no idea what that is for)
150 watt heater
Air pump 2000
24" hood with bulp
5" net
water conditioning sample
8' airline tubing
food sample
floating thermometer and undergravel bio filter

29 gal(long)

only difference with 25 gal is size and length of florescent bulp ..this one has a 30".

I kinda took a liking to the 29 gal tank  Now my question is can I still use live plants and skittle sized gravel (dark) and...how much gravel (pound wise) would I need for the 3 inch layer? Is there a ratio that can be used to figure it out?

grey


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

grey said:


> I was reading up on the cycling methods and was wondering if I use the fish method with zebra danios would I still have enough room if I eliminate the neon tetra for now? I really dont want to kill the danios off once the cycling is done. Afterall they are the ones that had to put up with my mistakes.


There is still room for neons however the danios will eventually die as they were subjected to damage by the presence of ammonia, nitrites and high nitrates during the cycling.


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## grey (Nov 11, 2007)

There is still room for neons however the danios will eventually die as they were subjected to damage by the presence of ammonia, nitrites and high nitrates during the cycling.[/quote]

I am actually torn between the fish and the fishless method..I hate the idea of making an animal suffer but at the same time it will give us something to look at while we wait for the cycling to be done


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## Falina (Feb 25, 2007)

The fishless method is much kinder obviously. You may not have anything to look at in the weeks that the tank is cycling but to me, that is fine as I know I'm not making any fish suffer and eventually die. It's up to you obviously but I would feel terribly guilty watching the danios swimming about while the tank was cycling, knowing what I was doing to them.


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## grey (Nov 11, 2007)

Falina said:


> The fishless method is much kinder obviously. You may not have anything to look at in the weeks that the tank is cycling but to me, that is fine as I know I'm not making any fish suffer and eventually die. It's up to you obviously but I would feel terribly guilty watching the danios swimming about while the tank was cycling, knowing what I was doing to them.


I been thinking about this all day and watching that poor betta in its small glassbowl at work just made me shutter. In the time I have been there the poor thing hasnt had its water changed, the bowl and fake plant are covered in slime and algae. The poor thing rarely moves and I have never seen it come to the surface. Today it was soo cold in the place (fish is right by outside door) I had to put a coat on. The owner doesnt know the first thing about bettas and she had him close to 3 years. He still is fed the same food he came with . When I left he seemed to be gasping worse then usual. 

I dont think I can bring myself to put another fish through somethign liek that.


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