# Plumbing a sump, the idea makes me want to cry



## gmate

Man, do I feel disgruntled. And humiliated! As a male, I am supposed to be Mr. Handy! Well, I have jack squat for plumbing experience. And as I am going to be including a sump in my reef tank, I need to get it right. I can't afford a 75 gallon flood in the middle of the living room. (Reefmadness, I know you're out there...and reading this...*evil eyes*)

I understand the concept, the purpose of all chambers in a sump, the overflow, the skimmer, the phosban reactor, refugium, trickle filter, etc etc. I want it all. I just need a solid STEP-BY-STEP DIY walkthrough for this. My father is very plumbing-savvy (general contractor, owned his own business for years) and could definitely help me with this. 

For a general idea, I have a 30g high glass tank which I could convert into a sump. Hell, I wanna do this right. I'd even make my own acrylic sump if needed, money isn't an issue on this piece of equipment. Or if anyone knows a good place to purchase quality sumps that can be shipped (I live in Connecticut), let me know. The main tank is going to be anywhere from 55 to 90 gallons, depending on what is available at the time in my budget and local area.

I just need some help. I feel like this is going to be the backbone of the success of my tank, and it's the one piece of the puzzle I find daunting. Everything else I can handle no problemo.

Thanks in advance guys (and girls!).


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## Reefing Madness

gmate said:


> Man, do I feel disgruntled. And humiliated! As a male, I am supposed to be Mr. Handy! Well, I have jack squat for plumbing experience. And as I am going to be including a sump in my reef tank, I need to get it right. I can't afford a 75 gallon flood in the middle of the living room. (Reefmadness, I know you're out there...and reading this...*evil eyes*)
> 
> I understand the concept, the purpose of all chambers in a sump, the overflow, the skimmer, the phosban reactor, refugium, trickle filter, etc etc. I want it all. I just need a solid STEP-BY-STEP DIY walkthrough for this. My father is very plumbing-savvy (general contractor, owned his own business for years) and could definitely help me with this.
> 
> For a general idea, I have a 30g high glass tank which I could convert into a sump. Hell, I wanna do this right. I'd even make my own acrylic sump if needed, money isn't an issue on this piece of equipment. Or if anyone knows a good place to purchase quality sumps that can be shipped (I live in Connecticut), let me know. The main tank is going to be anywhere from 55 to 90 gallons, depending on what is available at the time in my budget and local area.
> 
> I just need some help. I feel like this is going to be the backbone of the success of my tank, and it's the one piece of the puzzle I find daunting. Everything else I can handle no problemo.
> 
> Thanks in advance guys (and girls!).


1" overflow pvc lines from overflow to sump. Water return pump sits in end sump chamber, using 3/4" lines to return the water. You want a return pump with head loss to be close to your overflow gph. For it being close, you can make a T just a few inches off the return line, so that it goes right back to the sump, this allows for a dial in of water flow using a ball valve inline, so we have no overflows anywhere.
RS_75 | ESHOPPS - Manufacturer of Aquarium Filtrations
This one to big?
Any questions, just give a shout. I'll do what I can. If you buy a Sump, they usually some with on overflow line. You may have to buy the overflow. All depends on which one you get.


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## Reefing Madness

Just thought of somehting too. If your not sure on how to pvc the plumbing just get the flex tubing for overflow and return then. That will make it easier on you. Makes it a little tougher to make a T off the return to add a ball valve to fine tune it though.


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## chain

Reefing Madness said:


> 1" overflow pvc lines from overflow to sump. Water return pump sits in end sump chamber, using 3/4" lines to return the water. You want a return pump with head loss to be close to your overflow gph. For it being close, you can make a T just a few inches off the return line, so that it goes right back to the sump, this allows for a dial in of water flow using a ball valve inline, so we have no overflows anywhere.
> RS_75 | ESHOPPS - Manufacturer of Aquarium Filtrations
> This one to big?
> Any questions, just give a shout. I'll do what I can. If you buy a Sump, they usually some with on overflow line. You may have to buy the overflow. All depends on which one you get.


 
I am researching and learning about sumps as well. Would something like below be preferabe to what you recommended? Just asking as this seems closer to what I am seeing a lot of people doing.

http://www.eshopps.com/images/products/r100.jpg


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## Reefing Madness

chain said:


> I am researching and learning about sumps as well. Would something like below be preferabe to what you recommended? Just asking as this seems closer to what I am seeing a lot of people doing.
> 
> http://www.eshopps.com/images/products/r100.jpg


Thats a refugium, as it will keep water level in the center. Nothing wrong with that one either.:thumbsup:


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## gmate

Reefing Madness said:


> 1" overflow pvc lines from overflow to sump. Water return pump sits in end sump chamber, using 3/4" lines to return the water. You want a return pump with head loss to be close to your overflow gph. For it being close, you can make a T just a few inches off the return line, so that it goes right back to the sump, this allows for a dial in of water flow using a ball valve inline, so we have no overflows anywhere.
> RS_75 | ESHOPPS - Manufacturer of Aquarium Filtrations
> This one to big?
> Any questions, just give a shout. I'll do what I can. If you buy a Sump, they usually some with on overflow line. You may have to buy the overflow. All depends on which one you get.


I'm ignorant to the whole thing. I know water flows into the overflow, and then pumped down into the sump. I just want a full, complete, idiotic breakdown. 

So the overflow is a HOB deal? Or does it sit partially submerged in the tank? (This is assuming we don't have overflow holes drilled into the back of the tank - in which case, is that like the overflow in my bathroom sink? The water just flows over the glass? Or do I place a part or PVC tube there to catch water directly?)

So from the overflow, we have a powerhead pushing the water down into the sump? Or does the mechanics of the sump down below automatically push the water into the overflow, and towards the sump?

So now it's in the sump. It'll go through let's say, a trickle filter? Then it comes out the trickle filter into the first, big chamber. Would this be considered the refugium, where I could possibly put an invert or two, a piece of live rock, sand, etc? 
It then trickles into the third chamber, which would be where the protein skimmer and return is included? Another powerhead would direct the flow back up into the main tank, correct?

I am thinking off of a simple design I saw you post a few days/weels ago:
Sump - Model E SUMP E
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums SUMP F - Seems really simple, until I see this post-install picture and my mind goes bananas:









Trying to work out the basic plumbing knowledge in my head, where everything like equipment and powerheads will go, and how to work it. 

Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums 
actually describes it entirely, I just want to make sure I have FULL knowledge of what I'm talking about before I start buying equipment. I don't want to misunderstand the basic model, and waste my time (or you guys, when I come crying for answers to my questions) and money. Words like baffle, ball valve, etc make me go DUH. 

Thanks 

And sadly, it's the kind of thing where if I could go to somebody's house, look at their marine tank sump, have them spend 10 minutes explaining it to me and hands-on answer my questions, I'd have full understanding and confidence. But there are no LFS around me to help, and no friends of mine are in the hobby. Blah.


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## gmate

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/saltwater-aquarium-equipment/understanding-sumps-15943/

That thread should be a goddamn sump diary. How did I miss that sticky. /facepalm


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## Reefing Madness

LMAO. You got it now?
And overflow creates suction flow, there is no pump pushing water to the sump, it just goes down by gravity. Your return pump pushes the water back up to the tank, it really is that easy. a 1" pvc pipe has 600gph gravity flow to the sump, so you should have a 600gph returning it, or 750 with head loss. A T in the return line with a ball valve going back into the sump so you can really dial in the return flow to match the overflow box. 
Those other lines you see in that pic is, one is the T, another runs water into the right side, hell if I know why though. Other lines into the back side are either top offs or a dump line and re-fill line. Normally you jus tare looking at 2 lines, one from overflow and one to the tank.


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## trukgirl

From personal spill experience, make sure you invest in CHECK VALVES in case of power loss (especially on the return line from the sump back up to display tank). I bet its in that thread somewhere but I just want to re-mention it.


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## wannalearn

i know its not my thread, but would also be beneficial to the poster, but my biggest fear is, power loss, excess water draining into sump.. now i know you can design the sump and overflow to handle extra water, but when power is restored and return pump kicks on and emptys the sump, then running dry and burning up.... reefmaddnes you helped me with this befor, said to use a (i think liftmaster) pump to remove air from u tube in overflow, thus restarting the syphon(hopefully) i just dont like hopefully...lol... op just one more thing to think about.


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## onefish2fish

drill a non-tempered tank before you set it up. this will be your safest way of avoiding flood. i personally like glass-holes overflows over reef-ready tanks because they are a fraction of the size but still do the same job.


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## Reefing Madness

Reef Ready tank hasve hole already drilled in them. Also there are a couple of designs that will get your through the flood barrier. And FailSafe
BeanAnimal Overflow 
Herby Overflow
These you will have to drill holes in the back of tank.


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## gmate

And as for the availability of a sump in my area. Aside from constructing my own...do you think it'd be worth it to just buy a Berlin Sump off of marinedepot, or another internet website?

Aquarium Wet Dry Filters: Aqueon ProFlex Sump Filtration System at Drs. Foster and Smith

?


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## Reefing Madness

gmate said:


> And as for the availability of a sump in my area. Aside from constructing my own...do you think it'd be worth it to just buy a Berlin Sump off of marinedepot, or another internet website?
> 
> Aquarium Wet Dry Filters: Aqueon ProFlex Sump Filtration System at Drs. Foster and Smith
> 
> ?


 Reef Aquarium Filtration: Eshopps Reef Sumps


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## gmate

Yup, was looking at that one earlier. I gotta measure it out and make sure a reef octopus would fit in there before purchasing, but I'll add that to my parts list for when I begin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

gmate said:


> Yup, was looking at that one earlier. I gotta measure it out and make sure a reef octopus would fit in there before purchasing, but I'll add that to my parts list for when I begin.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 :thumbsup:


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## gmate

The output of the powerhead on the return line, should that be based on a neccessary flow rate for the total gallon amount of my reef system, or should it be based on the length of the plumbing from the return line to the tank?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

gmate said:


> The output of the powerhead on the return line, should that be based on a neccessary flow rate for the total gallon amount of my reef system, or should it be based on the length of the plumbing from the return line to the tank?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Can't be a powerhead, it has to be a water pump that has is rated at a certain gph with head loss. You want that pump to as closely as you can, match the gph coming into the sump. You calculate the pvc and bends in the return line for headloss to get as close as you can.


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## gmate

Is an RO/DI required? How does that work, does it plumb directly into my sump or do I just use it seperately and top-off from it manually (which I'm fine with, simpler the better - I don't need an auto-top off and to refill the ro/di unit)

I'm breaking down where I'm just going to make a thread to ask people to build me a tank with a complete equipment list. I've compiled pricing on most basic items but I feel like there's equipment I'm missing. I've decided I WILL be going with a sump for my first reef setup, and it may be a 40g breeder from petco (40 dollars on sale) and a stand I'll have to find online at craigslist.


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## Reefing Madness

gmate said:


> Is an RO/DI required? How does that work, does it plumb directly into my sump or do I just use it seperately and top-off from it manually (which I'm fine with, simpler the better - I don't need an auto-top off and to refill the ro/di unit)
> 
> I'm breaking down where I'm just going to make a thread to ask people to build me a tank with a complete equipment list. I've compiled pricing on most basic items but I feel like there's equipment I'm missing. I've decided I WILL be going with a sump for my first reef setup, and it may be a 40g breeder from petco (40 dollars on sale) and a stand I'll have to find online at craigslist.


 RO/DI is not required but really really a good idea, to keep your water very clean. You won't run into alot of phosphate and algae issues. An ATO is not a must, its just a thing to have that minimizes your daily hands on.
Saltwater Fish Aquarium Setup


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## trukgirl

Reefing Madness said:


> RO/DI is not required but really really a good idea, to keep your water very clean. You won't run into alot of phosphate and algae issues. An ATO is not a must, its just a thing to have that minimizes your daily hands on.


+1!!!!!!!!!

I do not have an auto top off but an RO system is WELL worth the investment. I would not run a saltwater system without one!! I found mine used on Craigslist. Came with 3 extra filters.


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## gmate

What is the recommended width of your PVC plumbing on a sump? 1 inch?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

gmate said:


> What is the recommended width of your PVC plumbing on a sump? 1 inch?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Intake 1", return 3/4"


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## gmate

And with an in-tank overflow box, does that require the tank to be predrilled? Or can I still plumb my siphon into the box? Or do I require a HOB overflow/weir to make the siphon?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

gmate said:


> And with an in-tank overflow box, does that require the tank to be predrilled? Or can I still plumb my siphon into the box? Or do I require a HOB overflow/weir to make the siphon?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yea, if your tank isn't drilled, you either drill it or use a HOB Overflow box.


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## gmate

Blah. I may end up drilling this tank after I buy it then, I'm really not into the idea of a HOB. Visually not very satisfying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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