# Exo-Terra Nano Vivarium?



## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Hey all,

I recently purchased a nano Exo-terra terrarium, the 8x8x12 one. I know this is too small for most animals, but I want to use it as an experiment to see if I can create a paludarium/vivarium for just plants and, if anyone knows of an animal that can fit comfortably, possibly a reptile or amphibian. I have read a lot about setting one of these up, many places suggest a false bottom? Does anyone have any experience with making false bottoms? Also, what kind of plants would work well? If I cannot keep animals, I was hoping to keep a carnivorous plant, probably the venus fly trap, along with other higher humidity plants I cannot just plant outside or in pots around my house.


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## hotshotdevil32 (Jan 30, 2010)

you maybe be able to do a fire belly toad or a a salamander of some sort. The problem with the toads is the toxins they secret posion the water bowl in the tank for other animals. I'm not sure if they present the same problem to plants but I believe I have seen them in vivarium so probably not. Is there a possible ecosystem you would like to theme the vivarium after like the amazon maybe? 



SinCrisis said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I recently purchased a nano Exo-terra terrarium, the 8x8x12 one. I know this is too small for most animals, but I want to use it as an experiment to see if I can create a paludarium/vivarium for just plants and, if anyone knows of an animal that can fit comfortably, possibly a reptile or amphibian. I have read a lot about setting one of these up, many places suggest a false bottom? Does anyone have any experience with making false bottoms? Also, what kind of plants would work well? If I cannot keep animals, I was hoping to keep a carnivorous plant, probably the venus fly trap, along with other higher humidity plants I cannot just plant outside or in pots around my house.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Carnivorous plants are fun!
Just be sure to use a 1:1 peat and perlite mix, as they will die in soil. Just something to think about if you haven't set it up yet. Also they need to be watered with distilled water.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

@hotshotdevil, I will look into fire bellied toads. I have looked at the tanks and it just seems really small for anything that needs to move around. Are there any special requirements needed to keep these toads?

@Olympia, do you have experience with carnivorous plants? I want to keep a varied group of higher humidity plants, some of which will use soil. I thought of potting the carnivorous plants with the peat and pearlite mix, and using organic potting soil for the rest but I am wondering if the roots will eventually extend beyond the pots and get the plant killed. As for distilled water, I have a reverse osmosis system for drinking water in the house, that should be ok as well right?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

As I said in my thread you will need a false bottom if you want to keep it as trouble free as you can.
R/O water is more than fine, I use tap in mine with no problems. I know people tend to get paranoid about every little detail but from my own experience I can say most problems people bring up are only in their heads. Plants that you can use in a high humidity viv would be bromeliads and orchids BUT keep in mind that both do not like to be planted. They are epiphyte plants and they only use the roots to hang on to branches and trees. They get the water from the humidity in the air.
You could plant them if you really want to but I(and a lot more others) advice against it. Just put them in mesh pots https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=mesh+pots&oq=mesh+pots&aq=f&aqi=g2g-s1g1&aql=&gs_l=hp.3..0l2j0i10j0.82641.83741.3.83836.9.9.0.0.0.0.251.1744.0j2j6.8.0...0.0.qVdBWjThlZw&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=61fe8c406b329c8c&biw=1600&bih=765 
with no dirt/soil.
Also if you are using an exo terra you will have to remove the mesh on the top and put plexiglass or glass in it's place or you will lose a ton of humidity(I have a few of them...)
If you need more help with the false bottom let me know.
Oh... If you can keep the humidity close to 90% you can also keep anubias in the viv.
Also make sure you have good light! If you want your plants to live and grow you will need the same light as for a high tech aquarium. Full spectrum light and lots of it. I like the osram 865 tubes(neons), plants do GREAT with them.
Aaahh... as for substrate use coco fiber, like the exo terra plantation soil. Regular soil will always be drenched and that is bad news. No ferts needed either even if you decide on carnivorous plants. Mine do perfect and all they get is light and water and they live ofcourse in coco fiber "soil".
You could "help" them(the carnivorous plants) with a few fruit flies every now and then, they are easy to culture, let me know if you want tips on that to.


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## hotshotdevil32 (Jan 30, 2010)

Here is all the info on fire bellied toads you could ask for
Oriental Fire Bellied Toads as Pets - Care


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

@Redknee, 

I do plan to get cut glass for the top. For the false bottom, I plan to get egg crate, but I might try and just set it up with mesh since the measurments are only 8x8 for the bottom and it seems egg crate is sold at much much larger dimensions. Still gotta check the hardware store for that. I do not think I will be able to set up a PVC support thing underneath due to the height of the tank, if I set up the bottom, it might be too high? I still need to check out the store to find out the details. Do you know how I can create a slope so it looks like a natural incline from the water to the land?

I was hoping to set it up with 1/3 water, and 2/3 land. I wanted to plant some of my bog plants like the amazon sword, an anubias and dwarf hairgrass in the water area to kinda get a bog-like look. The other side i wanted a venus fly trap and/or a sundew plant with some kind of moss, for ground cover. I was hoping to find some naturally red plant, but not flowering to add a bit of contrast? Do you know of any that would stay relatively small? Also, I want to keep wood in the tank but im a bit worried about mold or fungus on the wood since the humidity is going to be really high. I have 2 pieces of thick manzanita branches I want to use.

I am getting custom cut glass for the lid, i heard that they are only supposed to be a couple of bucks.

As for light, it will be under a dual t5-HO system with a 6500k bulb and a rosette bulb so I think that should be more than enough for a small viv?

For substrate, the very bottom, I plan to use ultra fine gravel with root tabs for the plants.

@hotshotdevil32, Thanks for the link. It corresponds exactly with what I've been finding and it seems that the toads would feel most at east in a larger ecosystem with tankmates so even if I have enough space for one, it will not be as healthy as it should be so i think I am going to pass on them this time. However, if this vivarium is successful, I will definitely be making more in the future and will want these toads. They sound very interesting.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Seems like you got it planed pretty good.
For the slope just use the substrate, coco fibers hold pretty nice and will not slide if the angle of the slope is not very big.
No red plants that I can think of right now... Will keep thinking for one.
The wood might get mold for a while but it's not really a problem, 9 out of 10 times the mold just goes away in time.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Will it be ok with the coco-fibers dipping into the water? Or should I make a buffer of gravel?

For the false bottom, if I just rest the egg crate on top of the gravel, will that be alright or will there not be enough space for free standing water to keep my humidity up?

I am likely to forget about misting daily, maybe will end up misting like once every 2 days so I want to humidity to be high naturally.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

The coco should not touch the water and the sand should not be under the false bottom. The fake bottom should be the first thing you put inside and after mesh>sand>coco.
You dont need standing water to keep high humidity, you just need to keep the humidity inside(that's why I said you need to remove the mesh on the top and put glass or plexi).
Some of my vivs I only spray once/week and the humidity is still over 80%.
And make sure that the water NEVER gets high nuff to touch the coco substrate. Coco fibers tend to keep a ton of water anyway, last thing you want is more water for it to absorb.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Sorry, I'm a little confused now, won't the false bottom then become stagnant? Because of the egg crate, it will cause each little square to have water but that water wouldn't be moving so won't i risk stagnation and fungus? I was thinking that the gravel would be the reservoir of water. Will that not work? I cannot fit a pump the circulate water since the entire tank is so small. I am going to home depot tonight, Ill see if I can find a egg crate size that i can use. Is there an alternative to eggcrate for the false bottom?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

SinCrisis said:


> Sorry, I'm a little confused now, won't the false bottom then become stagnant? Because of the egg crate, it will cause each little square to have water but that water wouldn't be moving so won't i risk stagnation and fungus? I was thinking that the gravel would be the reservoir of water. Will that not work? I cannot fit a pump the circulate water since the entire tank is so small. I am going to home depot tonight, Ill see if I can find a egg crate size that i can use. Is there an alternative to eggcrate for the false bottom?


Fcourse each square will have stagnant water, that's why (somewhere) I said you need to put small PVC pipes under the eggcrate. You can find very small pumps in aquarium stores, half the size of a pack of smokes. The water does not need to be recirculated but the pump helps you get the water out when you want it out.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Hmm, well this poses a big problem then, the exo terra looks like it only has around 2-2.5 inches before the door. The egg crate is around 1/2 an inch already. The substrate, for the bottom plants, needs to be around 1 inch for minimal root growth. Then the false bottom should, i think, be raised 1/2 and inch? Then with the raised false bottom I am already at 2 inches and dirt layer on top shop only has 1/2 inch of thickness. Is that deep enough for the land plants? I am afraid I will not have enough land substrate for the terrestrial plants. Is there something here I should skip in my measurements?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Also, could you advise what kind of mesh you used for the top layer of the false bottom? Would something like this work? http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...langId=-1&keyword=window+screen&storeId=10051


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

The mesh in the link is what I used to(or very similar). It will work.
Yeah 1/2 inch is nuff for the false bottom to be raised. The plants will grow roots horizontally so it will be ok.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Sort of related, but is it possible to get some kind of hydroponics thing going with plants growing through the mesh and using the water at the bottom? Perhaps cutting holes in the mes to allow that could be good for the terrarium?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

OK so this plan has a major problem as it turns out.

1. Egg Crate is only sold 2'x4'. I need like 7.5" x 7.5". I cannot buy 2x4 cuz its way too big

2. The amount of mesh required to build this terrarium is also 7.5" x 7.5". Mesh is sold 36" long and like 24" tall.

3. The perlite and peat sphagnum moss I need is sold in giant bags, even the smallest one its about 10x more than I need.


Is there a way around the false bottom problem? Perhaps an alternative way? I have really large gravel, could I use that and just make a 1 inch tall layer and then put the land substrate on top? The cracks between the gravel wont hold as much water as a false bottom but the large rocks should keep the coconut fibers, peat moss, and perlite away from the water?

For the perlite and peat moss problem, I am going to try and find a small garden store and hope they have it. I want to avoid the "special soil blends" online plant retailers have. They're so overpriced...


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Never sen anyone use the vivarium as a hydroponics sistem... I'd say no to it as the roots might rot.
Forget perlite and peat moss. Not needed. Plants will grow just fine in coco fiber. If you really want to give them some help you can use some fertilizers in the coco fiber. Something like those small sticks(they are 1/2 the size of a cigarette sold in any crap flower store). Just put 3-4 of them into the coco every 2 months or so. 








Well if you dont want to buy the eggcrate and mesh you can always use the second method(I dont really like it but meh...) and use hydroballs:








BUT you still need some sort of mesh to put over them to keep the coco fibers from going down into the bottom. You could try and find window mosquito net, perhaps that is sold in smaller pieces...
Or try craft stores(or whatever the heck you call`em) those sell all kinds of stuff.
Using sand(big or small) wont solve the problem, you need a fine mesh to keep the coco from going down to the bottom...


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Hydroballs apparently, at least from my sources, only come in 2.5lbs bags which is still too big. Also, apparently the closest craft store from me is like 2 towns over.

Anyway, a friend suggested the following: Acrylic sheet placed at a slope with rocks on one side to hold it up, and the other side laying directly on the bottom. with slits cut into it to allow water to pool underneath it. Will that work? The water would slide down the slope instead of pooling. I would put a layer of fine gravel for bog plants and it should be big enough to still allow water to pool? My only worry is that it wont allow for air exchange under the acrylic and I may have to deal with stagnant water?

Also, I ran into this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Potting-soil-for-carnivorous-plants/ which says the coconut husk will kill my plants via salt eventually?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Kill your plants via salt? The guy is insane or he used something else. Coco fibers have been used in vivariums for a very long time and I have yet to hear about a case of dead plants from it. I use it to grow plants, my tarantulas like on it, my dart frogs live on it, my blaberus craniifer colony lives on it. 
At best he got a contaminated bag of coco fibers. My guess... he's insane.
Just use exo terra plantation soil, been using it for a long time and never had any problems with it regardless of what I had growing on it, be it plant or animal.
Now for the acrylic... I really dont know what to say... It might work and it might not. There could be more than one problem with that idea. The only 2 ways that actually work without problems are the ones I wrote about. Anything else would be trial and error.
What I think is that you should go for the eggcrate and net because once you have a vivarium I bet my car that you will want a second and 3'rd and so on. I know I have a room packed with them. You will want one that is bigger and you'll see photos of other vivs and want to do something similar and so on. So the leftover eggcrate and net will come in handy. If not you have mosquito net for the house and a nice piece of eggcrate that you can use in your garage(I use mine to hold screwdrivers). It can also be used in aquariums if you want to have heavy rocks on the bottom, it's a great way to spread the weight and keep the bottom safe. Seen it used in cichlid tanks.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Your suggestion about crafts earlier, i looked on amazon and i found the below:






which i think is stiff enough where I wont need the egg crate if I have enough support underneath. 

I also found:




and





Which i think will work as substrate? the exo terra plantation soil is too big a bag for what I need as well, this is cheaper and it comes in smaller bags. I figured I could mix the peat moss with some ultrafine gravel and make the first layer of substrate, then sphagnum moss, which is only 0.50 blended in and on top. I also found coconut coir, but I can't use coconut coir in my garden, but the peat and moss I can so I think i am opting for this over the coconut coir. If I do start a larger terrarium, Ill probably get the coir. 

For future terrariums, you are right, I already have plans to get a bigger terrarium and to have my own frog vivarium. However, I cannot do that until I move and that wont be for another year at least. I really do not want to hold onto the egg crate for that long as my current room is already small. Im living with 2 fish tanks already. This nano vivarium will take up the little space i have left . Also i found a place that sells 3 carnivorous plants for around 20 bucks and one is red so I think that solves my red plant contrast issue.

What non carnivorous plants will grow well in a peat soil mix? I am hoping for some ground cover and some ferns? Will those work?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

SinCrisis said:


> Your suggestion about crafts earlier, i looked on amazon and i found the below:
> 
> Amazon.com: Plastic Canvas 14-Count 8.5x11 2/Pkg-Clear: Arts, Crafts & Sewing
> 
> ...


The plastic canvas might work if it's strong nuff to hold the weight of the substrate. Not sure what that thing is, seems good but cant be sure.
The organic peat moss could be a problem because of water retention, mixed with gravel it might work tho if you get a good mix. Maybe 50-50. But not ultrafine gravel, that will just choke the roots. 3-5mm gravel would do.
Plants will grow in it... I've seen a fern grow on the wall of a house, I shit you not. The roots were in a crack in the brick wall about half a foot from the ground.
Forget the spagnum moss, there is no need for it, it will rot in a matter of days, at best it will hold for 2 weeks.
Good luck with finding a new place, I know I could use about... 20 more rooms :lol:


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

haha I hear you, if i every got my own house, i would def set aside a aquarium/vivarium room. I would totally do that humidify the entire room thing i see people doing so their tanks all have mesh tops and still have enough humidity for their amphibians.

Anyway, the terrarium has been tested for leaks and has passed. Gonna order the mesh today, after I find another 20 dollars worth of things for the free shipping... 

Got any ideas for ground cover plants? I want to be able to see bare substrate, but I want that woodsy/marshy look. 

I love how you laid out your vivarium, how did you decide where to put everything?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

SinCrisis said:


> I love how you laid out your vivarium, how did you decide where to put everything?


Just let your imagination run wild. You could use a few oak leafs(dry) on the substrate to give it a more natural look or forest moss, whatever suits you. Ground plants... As in a sort of carpet? Hmmm I'll think about it and let you know.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Hey Redknee, I wanna thank you for your patience and helping me out, I know im just dumping a lot of questions on you. >.< I really appreciate the advice and help you've been giving me to get this vivarium off the ground.

Also, do you use a hygrometer?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

SinCrisis said:


> Hey Redknee, I wanna thank you for your patience and helping me out, I know im just dumping a lot of questions on you. >.< I really appreciate the advice and help you've been giving me to get this vivarium off the ground.
> Also, do you use a hygrometer?


No problem, glad you learned something new.
I did use an exo terra digital and a couple of non digital but in general hygros suck. If you can buy a digital expensive one it might not lie but who wants to spend 100$ on a damn hygro. At one point I had 3 of them and each said somethig else. So I ended up learning from the look of the vivarium how high/low the humidity is.
Usually if the glass has condensation on it(like on the front doors or the lid) the humidity is over 85-90%. Also the substrate should be moist(but not soaked) and you should never let it dry out. Keep it nice and moist. If you spray it every day or every other day it should do fine, just dont over spray. To wet is just as bad as to dry.
There is a way to tell how much a hygro is off by but... Well here it goes: 
Take 1 coffee cup and put 3/4 salt and 1/4 water in it. Till the salt is moist but no water is actually over it, it should look like the sand on the beach...
Then place the cup in a ziplock bag and place the hygro in the same bag and close it up so that is air tight. Let it stay there for 24-48 hours then read what the hygro sais. If it's working right it should say 75% humidity because that is exactly the humidity level in the bag. If it sais something else you will know by how much it's of. My exo terra digital said 80% so it was of by +5%. My non digital said 60% so it was of by -15%. 
Problem is that even if you do know by how much it is of you cant be sure that in time it wont go of by a lot more... So checking it every month with this method should be a must if you want to be able to trust your hygro.
In any case in time you will learn how to "read" your viv just by the looks of it.
If something is unclear lemme know.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

OK so I found a old Analog Hygrometer designed for cigar humidors. Would that work? It's accurate, but I am not sure how to mount it.. Any ideas?

Also ended up getting PVC connectors which is also the perfect height(2 inches) and brings the top layer flush with the bottom lid. However, because of this height, I also have the option of making a hill or mound with the false bottom. The PVC seems very very strong, I want to cut into it so that water will circulate through it. Good idea or bad idea?

Lastly, how do you feel about the use of java moss? If I drape java moss onto driftwood, will they curtain down?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Cut the pvc, do whatever you want with it, the size of your viv will not pose any problems weight wise.
Java moss will grow and curtain down but only is it's wet most of the time, you would need 100% humidity for that. Pretty hard to keep without daily misting. The cigar hygro migit do the trick, those are usually pretty good. Does it have any mounting device on the back? Something to hang it on a nail or any sort of support? If not you could just glue it wherever you want it just make sure that when you mist you dont soak it. Keep water away from it as much as you can or it will lie like a hag on the burning stake.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Cigar hygro does not have a mounting thing on the back. It looked like its designed to be slotted into a hole drilled in the wood. The area around the head of the dial shows grooves to improve grip and prevent humidity escape. I do not want to drill my tank. The exo terra does have grooves in the top lid for air tubing or mist tubing so maybe i can create a harness to hand it in the back like a grandfather clock pendulum. Still need to salt test the hygro though. 

The mesh should be arriving today. Should be able to set up how I want the false bottom. I think I might just keep it flat since most marshes and bogs don't have hills and cliffs. How about just java moss matting the top of the peat layer? will that work and serve as a grassy top?

Also, i found some places talking about the Exo Terra mesh top corroding. Have you had that problem? Im wondering if I need to remove my mesh to avoid the trouble later...

Lastly, air circulation. How do you keep your humidity but also have fresh air cycling in? Do you use a fan?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Remove the mesh on the top and replace with glass or plexy as I said before, best way to keep your viv out of trouble.
For air circulation I use a fan hooked to a 12V DC adapter that runs 15 mins every 6 hours. Just pushes air inside the tank. But with such a small viv as yours you will kill the humidity with a fan, I think that opening the viv doors every 24-48 hours(when you mist) will be nuff to get some fresh air in there.
It depends a lot on how well your substrate can drain(mold wise).
You could also just drill a few holes in the top of the tank(in the glass that you will use to replace the metal mesh) and just get a bit of air circulation from there. 2-4 holes depending on size should sufice. Remember that the exo terra also gets some air circulation from the front vent it has(just under the doors there is that thingy with holes in it) and also the doors do not close perfectly on the sides and some air can get through there also.
Since you dont have any animals in there air is not a big problem. And even with animals inside you dont need a ton of air, remember that plants also provide oxygen.
Not sure about the moss... You will have to try it yourself and see how it goes, in theory it should work ok but... I wont put all my money on that. Get forest moss or even tree moss if you can find any like in a park if there are no forests around you. Moss will grow in a lof of places and some of those places might be just under your nose.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Without the mesh, my glass has nothing to sit on? I don't want to buy a whole tube of silicon to put in glass either, its going to be a huge waste of silicone and I don't have extra silicone around the house.

As for animals, I won't have any animals, you are correct. However, I am told that the greenhouse effect is bad for carnivorous plants?

For misting, I plan to mist once a day, but will be getting an automatic one eventually since I often travel a lot for work.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

SinCrisis said:


> Without the mesh, my glass has nothing to sit on? I don't want to buy a whole tube of silicon to put in glass either, its going to be a huge waste of silicone and I don't have extra silicone around the house.
> 
> As for animals, I won't have any animals, you are correct. However, I am told that the greenhouse effect is bad for carnivorous plants?
> 
> For misting, I plan to mist once a day, but will be getting an automatic one eventually since I often travel a lot for work.


Then keep the mesh, just make sure it can hold the weight of the glass. 
There is a googolplex(and I dont mean the google headquarters) of BS floating out there. The kind of stuff some people can say and stand by will never stop to amaze me. With the proper care your carnivorous plants will be just fine.
BTW you can reuse the tube of silicone as many times as you want to just push a screw in the front of the tube so that no air goes in to dry the silicone.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh holy cow, i hand sawed one piece of the PVC pipe and it took 30 minutes last night. It also didn't come out as clean as I wanted. If this is whats going to happen for the other pieces, its gonna be a while before I really start on the rest of this, probably gonna need the weekend to cut the 6 pieces and sand them down to perfection. Gravel + water will be going in this weekend, peat should be arrive next week sometime. 

Redknee, how did you secure your PVC pipes? Mine keep sliding everywhere and I do not think i should be placing a layer of gravel around them to secure them right? The false bottom in the area under the terrestrial part should be clean?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

SinCrisis said:


> Oh holy cow, i hand sawed one piece of the PVC pipe and it took 30 minutes last night. It also didn't come out as clean as I wanted. If this is whats going to happen for the other pieces, its gonna be a while before I really start on the rest of this, probably gonna need the weekend to cut the 6 pieces and sand them down to perfection. Gravel + water will be going in this weekend, peat should be arrive next week sometime.
> 
> Redknee, how did you secure your PVC pipes? Mine keep sliding everywhere and I do not think i should be placing a layer of gravel around them to secure them right? The false bottom in the area under the terrestrial part should be clean?


You are cuting the pvc in lenght? Dont bother, just cut 6-8-10 pieces of the same lenght and put a dent(or hole) on the part that will be on the bottom so the water can circulate. That way the pipe has a flat surface to stand on and wont go in all directions.
What do you mean clean?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

The PVC i purchased are PVC connectors, not the pipes. The pipes were being sold in packs of 5 and i need about 6 inches of pvc total so i would have had way too much PVC if I got the pipes. What i got were these 2 inch long connectors so I need to saw them in half to get the right height of 1inch for the false bottom. For circulation, I am going to drill it.

What i mean by holding it in place is that whenever i drop the mesh, the pvc slides so the support i want in the corners slide to the left or right so i cant get the proper support in the areas I need. The mesh is not as hard as I need, but it is enough if I can get the supports to stay in the right places.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Ah, I understand.
Well the only valid way is silicone or any glue that will hold to water and is non toxic after it cures. I hear gorilla glue does a good job at this to, never tested it myself tho.
As for hand cutin the pvc... damn! I always use power tools for anything that takes longer than smoking a cig. Dont you have a friend with a dremel around? They work pretty well for all kinds of stuff.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Actually I have a dremel. Dunno why i didnt think to use it... -_-" lol Oops... I got like 100 attachments too... well that reminder solves a lot of problems. THANKS! I can grind it flat and stuff to with that thing... AHH that means i wasted 30 minutes last night when i coulda just cut all of them last night... AHH.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

OK, so all the PVC has been cut, sanded, drilled. I placed a soil layer at the bottom of the bog area and put down a thin layer of black ultra-fine gravel to help with preventing the peat from falling through. So far it looks good. Also, another benefit i think, the gravel layer is sucking up water from the bog area so it is slightly moist via capillary action, which will help keep the peat moist for the plants. This gravel is about 2mm, i think it will also mix well with the peat when the peat layer goes on top.

Also the hygrometer has been calibrated. At least i hope I calibrated it ok. It sat in the bag with the salt at 60% before so I adjusted it to show 75%. Is there another way to test the accuracy besides the salt test?

Also, apparently the terrarium wont fit where I want it to, its 1/2 cm too tall. So now its going next to a window and getting direct sunlight for like 4-5 hrs a day. Is that sufficient?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

There is no other way to test a hygro at home(none that actually works well) but the salt test is almost 100% accurate.
4-5 hours of direct sun might be ok but I am unsure, might still need a bit of light.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

well according to the hygro, my setup is at 82% humidity. the sides are foggy except one side. Doesnt look like its 80%... might salt test it again. still waiting for the peat to arrive, but I might start planting the bog plants now to get it started.


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

If the walls are foggy there is nuff humidity. Dont bother to much with it. It will drive you insane/


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Well the humidity hasnt changed but on some days, its foggier than others. Today, the hygro read 80% and the glass was totally clear. However, it was foggy when I went to bed and it was reading 80% then too. Is this normal?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

Yeah, is ok, as I said dont let it drive you insane .
My small frog tank has not been misted for a week and humidity is still above 90%. Sometimes it is foggy others not. The "fog" also depends on temperature made from the light. I have notices that after the lights are out and the tank chills a bit it becomes more foggy.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

OK, So i ordered my plants and they are arriving today. However, the store owner told me, explicitly, that terrarium growth could be dangerous for these plants. He is telling me that in his experience, terrarium growth often works for a couple of months and then fail because of various components like salt in the substrate, he noted that cocofiber is not good for the plants long term, especially the venus fly trap, and that terrarium temperatures can get too hot for the plants. 

SO I have opted for a pure sphagnum moss substrate, but now I am concerned about the nutrient content of the substrate. Will I need to feed more because the substrate has no nutrients of its own now? I know carnivorous plants don't usually take a lot from the substrate but they do still work on some nutrients and I know that sphagnum moss does not have a lot of nutrients, if any, since it kinda just works like a sponge?


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## Redknee (Feb 21, 2010)

I heard of ppl using peat moss for substrate but never spagnum moss... That sphagnum moss you buy is just dead dry moss, it cant support the roots or the plants, it's to ... soft and not compact nuff to be a good basis for support. And it will rot like there's no tomorow.
But it is your call.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Well the instructions are to really pack it around the roots. I'm gonna give it a try, if they don't do as well as I thought, ill put it in the peat.


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