# Guppies keep hemorrhaging!



## PersonalityUnknown (May 3, 2013)

So I posted on Bettafish.com to see if they had any advice for me upon hemorrhages but they keep attacking my stock selection. My stock selection is NOT my issue or else I would have traded my fish back to my store for something else. *Hemorrhaging* is my issue and I need to find out how to remedy it.

My first batch of female guppies all hemorrhaged and died within a week of having them. Both my males didn't show any signs of sickness after everything was said and done. Now, a few weeks later, it's starting again with guppies I bought at another store. So far I only see one of the females with obvious hemorrhage spots and I'm really worried about the rest of my tank. This is my first illness I'm dealing with in my own personal tank. )=

WHEN I HAD MY FIRST BATCH OF FEMALE GUPPIES THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE IN MY TANK. 4/5 females hemorrhaged and died within a week of having them. My 2 males were fine and 1 female guppy was not affected. Now I have my tank fully stocked when I bought another 5 females. Only 1 of them has bloody spots speckled over her small body (she's a young one). Everyone's fins are PRISTINE other than the 2 males I have before the nippy female guppy was quarantined. So attacks don't seem like a viable option to attack in my opinion.

Tank stats:
29g, semi planted w/ driftwood.
Gravel substrate
~86 degree F
Tank age: Approx 3 weeks

Stock:
6 female Guppies
2 Male guppies
3 Female Bettas
1 Male betta
2 Ghost Shrimp
1 Bamboo shrimp
2 Clown Loaches
1 Fancytail Goldfish (Rescue)

What should I do to remedy this? What medication should I use to treat my tank since it seems to be something living in my water thanks to my first batch of guppies that had it...


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## ZivaD (Jan 26, 2013)

PersonalityUnknown said:


> So I posted on Bettafish.com to see if they had any advice for me upon hemorrhages but they keep attacking my stock selection. My stock selection is NOT my issue or else I would have traded my fish back to my store for something else. *Hemorrhaging* is my issue and I need to find out how to remedy it.
> 
> My first batch of female guppies all hemorrhaged and died within a week of having them. Both my males didn't show any signs of sickness after everything was said and done. Now, a few weeks later, it's starting again with guppies I bought at another store. So far I only see one of the females with obvious hemorrhage spots and I'm really worried about the rest of my tank. This is my first illness I'm dealing with in my own personal tank. )=
> 
> ...



There are several issues in the information provided above - unfortunately, everything that is jumping out at me (the temp, the mixing of goldfish and tropicals, fish ill-suited to the size tank you have, your stocking selections in general, the fact that you have this much stock in a 3 week old tank, etc) is going to be what you don't want to hear. However, in spite of your assertion that your stocking is NOT an issue, I must beg to differ.
Please provide the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate numbers.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

What jumped out at me right away is the temperature in that tank. 86 is too high. Start with slowly lowering your temp to somewhere in the mid to higher 70s. 

Was the tank cycled prior to adding fish? And agree with Ziva that you should test the water for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, PH.


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## PersonalityUnknown (May 3, 2013)

I did a 50% water change and added AQ salt + stress coat plus another dose of bacteria. I also lowered the temp. My heater says 76 but my thermometer says it's still in the 80's. I'll lower it again tomorrow morning then see what's what when I get home from work.

I'll be taking a sample of water to work with me to test my water. I'll post test results as soon as I can.

Just to clarify, I don't care if you say if it's stock related. If it is, it is. Nothing I can do other than trade my fish to the store I work for for something better suited. My issue was people attacking my stock options when I wanted an answer for my fish hemorrhaging. I understand that it's not kosher, it's highly not recommended but I am experimenting. I keep a very close eye on all my fish, their behavior and habbits. I notice any little thing wrong with my fish and I immediately ask someone more experienced for advice. I don't wait for weeks to roll by then go "oh, well shit.". If anything goes wrong in my tank, I'll notice it within a few days if I don't catch it right away.

From what I've seen from all of my fish is normal behavior of any community fish. Everyone lives in peace, the female betta's do their thing, my male betta stays on display 98% of the time within the first two inches of the front of the tank and my guppies and loaches stick to their respective [gender] groups with the random male guppy going "EY BEBE HOW U DOIN" If I see ANY true aggression or stress in my fish, I'd IMMEDIATELY quarantine them and exchange him/her for something more suited.

Edit: My tank wasn't cycled in the very beginning when I added the 5 guppies, I was originally doing an in-tank cycle but then I did get a little over zealous and had to buy the new Fluval cycle stater stuff. My cycle is still establishing, I kinda doubt it's 100% just yet.


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## Giri (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey there, I just coming in to see if maybe I can help a bit.

There is this form that is really helpful to communicate what exactly is going on in your tank. You provided some very good information to start with, but this will help keep things cohesive. Will you please fill it out?

1. Size of tank?
2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia?
b. Nitrite?
c. Nitrate?
d. pH, KH and GH?
e. Test kit?
3. Temperature?
4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? 
5. How long the aquarium has been set up?
6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?
7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?
8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?
9. a. Filtration?
b. Heater?
10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long?
11. a. Water change schedule?
b. Volume of water changed?
c. Well water, tap water, RO water?
d. Water conditioner used?
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?
12. Foods?
How often are they fed?
13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
b. Appearance of poop?
c. Appearance of gills?
14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? 
b. What meds were used?
15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.

We recognize that you are experimenting with your tank,and you seem very adamant about keeping it as is. No one here is going to jump down your throat about your stocking choices.However, people do feel very strongly about stocking concerns,so don't be surprised if people voice these concerns because they can greatly affect the entire health of your tank. However, why don't we lay that issue to rest until we get the hemorrhaging fish concern out of the way?


​


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## PersonalityUnknown (May 3, 2013)

Thank you, Giri.

1. 29g
2. ~TO BE EDITED WHEN I HAVE THE RESULTS~
a. Ammonia?
b. Nitrite?
c. Nitrate?
d. pH
e. API Freshwater liquid
3. heater says 76, thermometer says 84
4. Fresh
5. Approx 3 weeks
6. 2 smaller female Guppies, 4 grown female guppies, 2 grown male guppies, 2 smaller female bettas, 1 grown female betta, 1 grown male betta, 1 fancytail goldfish ~1", 2 clown loaches ~2"
7. Err... straight into the tank after floating? :x
8. a. Live and fake plants
b. Gravel
c. Driftwood x2, med-large castle
9. a. Aqueon quiteflow 30
b. Elite
10. a. Approx 11hrs of light, standard Aqueon Power Glo
b. No direct sunlight
11. a. No set schedule.. So far 20% per week plus this 50% I did yesterday
b. Volume of water changed?
c. Tap
d. Stress Coat
e. once a month
12. Tetramin crisps, twice a day
13. a. Hemorrhaging & discolored patch on skin that kinda looks like it could be slowly rotting away
b. long & brown
c. Everyone seems healthy, gillwise. 
14. a. Not particularly.
b. Aquarium Salt
15.







(She's the female in the back)

Video of the entire tank:
Video by personalityunknown • Instagram


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## PersonalityUnknown (May 3, 2013)

Tested my water:
Ph 6.7
Ammonia 1ppm-2ppm
Nitrite and nitrates are zero.

Ill be doing a 90% water change when I get home. I can only imagine what my ammonia was at before yesterday's change 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

PersonalityUnknown said:


> Tested my water:
> Ph 6.7
> Ammonia 1ppm-2ppm
> Nitrite and nitrates are zero.
> ...


Ugh! A good thing would be to use Seachem Prime water conditioner. It renders ammonia harmless to your fish for 24 hours or so. Use it at triple the dose and keep up with water changes until you get that ammonia under control. 

Keep swimming


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

If the stocking is something you really don't want to change you probably will need to double up your filtration because that tank is overstocked. Water quality may be an ongoing issue with everyone in there...especially as the Clown loaches grow up to as much as 1 foot long.


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## ZivaD (Jan 26, 2013)

Google HEMORRHAGIC SEPTICEMIA and see if that is what you are seeing on your fish (it seems that the top fish in your picture is the most effected, but is also the hardest to see clearly so you might be better able to tell)


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## Giri (Feb 9, 2010)

Viral hemorrhagic septicemia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a condition found more in wild fish, but I thought it might be the condition that is being the problem as ZivaD mentioned. Are the guppies wild caught? I can't really seem to otherwise place what is happening with the brown spots,or the hemorrhaging. Perhaps a more advanced aquarist could suggest something?

The tank isn't quite cycled, this may of caused some of the die-off with your ammonia levels in the beginning.

So, I hope you don't mind but I did want to mention that I am personally not comfortable with how you've stocked the tank. My highest concern is the goldfish and the loaches- because they can and will get so very large. They are really going to need a bigger tank, considering you have a community in there. I would imagine the single goldfish would be fine in that tank, but with everyone else in there it really is too much. Might I suggest doing a bit more research on the loaches and the goldfish? I highly encourage you to upgrade tank size, or perhaps do some re-homing. It really isn't healthy for the fish,and as hobbyist I know that is your top priority too. 

Everyone here would gladly help provide information on loaches and goldfish,and perhaps find some other options from your tank? Or even work to help find another options so that you may keep those fish, but set up another tank.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Giri said:


> Viral hemorrhagic septicemia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> This is a condition found more in wild fish, but I thought it might be the condition that is being the problem as ZivaD mentioned. Are the guppies wild caught? I can't really seem to otherwise place what is happening with the brown spots,or the hemorrhaging. Perhaps a more advanced aquarist could suggest something?


No actually this is very possible. If you look more into Hemorrhagic septicema you'll as you found the viral wild version... but also specifically look up the version found in aquarium fish. It is not viral but instead bacterial and a product almost always of high ammonia which we have in fact established is 1 of the issues at hand in this tank. Most likely from a fatal mix of cycling a tank that is lso very overstocked and underfiltered for the fish that are in there. Which wil be more a problem the larger they all grow if they do not die.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

If you work for a shop get some mature media from work to jump start the cycle. Get enough & there will be no cycling issue at all. As mentioned, drop that temperature, huge water changes & hose it with Prime. Working for a shop you should at least be able to get an employee discount, or swing a deal for a used larger tank from a customer you talk into upgrading. I'd shoot for selling someone with a 55 a nice new 120, and offer to buy their old 55. Work will love ya!

No comment on stocking, if you can make it work have at it. I've seen stranger mixes that worked, I'd be concerned about the eventual size of some of those fish.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

If the ammonia is 1-2 ppm and there are no nitrites or nitrates, the I would say that the tank is still in the beginning stage of the cycle.


As far as the heater is concerned - turning the temp down on the heater will only cool the tank if the ambient air temp is even lower than the lower temp to which you have set the heater. If there is an indicator light, is it on??


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## PersonalityUnknown (May 3, 2013)

Okay so I'm working on 20% water changes daily now. Or should I aim for more? It takes a ridiculous amount of time for my tank to drain because of the syphon set-up I have... I'll be testing my water again Monday when I go back to work. 

I was supposed to bring home thing of used filter floss for the bacteria jump-start but I completely forgot at the end of my shift (I'm going to the Bonx zoo today so that's all I had on my mind X_x). But I should be bringing it home come Monday night.

One of my guppies had a successful birth!! Everyone before her would give birth then die shortly after. I managed to save one of the babies whom I'm going to try to raise it as a victory of getting my tank where it should be ._. It's in my deluxe breeder net thingy.

Agent13 - I'm thinking about trading in my clown loaches for a red tail blue botia... I wanted to keep my loaches until they were about 5 inches, maybe and trade them back to my store for a little extra credit.. lol 

ZivaD - Yeah, kinda. It was more like spots instead of just one big red spot..

jaysee - Woah, huh? Can you word that differently? That kinda went over my head.. o_o

My heater is now set for 68 and it keeps my tank a little lower than 80 now.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Sure. If the air temp is 75 and you turn the heater down to 70, the tank will not go to 70, because the air is 75. I asked if the indicator light for the heater is on to determine if the heater was working. If you have the heater set to 68 and the tank is maintaining 80 with the indicator light on, then the heater is just off on its calibration, or is perhaps in the process of failing.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

For quicker water changes get about 6' of larger bore hose, like the size of garden hose. This is available by the foot at any home improvement or hardware store. Get a large piece of sponge for the tank side, this should be available at your shop, this will keep fish from being sucked in. You should be able to drain 3-5 gallons per minute with this setup, depending on how high the tank is & how low the bucket is. 20% daily isn't enough for a tank that's cycling with fish, 50% to 80% will keep things safer for your fish.


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