# Input on 55 gallon planted stocking with Bolivian Rams



## LadyKeiva

Hello all!!

I've been interested in keeping a tropical community tank probably over 5 years now. I've always had loads of different pets and tanks (I just recently took down my 20 Long with African Clawed Frogs I've had for 6 years) and now I finally have the opportunity to setup the big planted tank I've always wanted. 

Over the last few months I've done quite a bit of research, planning, forum hunting, bio reading, etc; (hours and hours, kind of obsessive really =P, I suppose I sort of over-plan when it comes to my pets) on lighting, filtration, heating, substrate, plants, ferts, fish, you name it.

After all of that, supplies have all almost arrived, and I'll be setting up in the next couple of weeks. I have a basic idea of what fish I want to eventually add and how many of each (not at once of course), but I'm looking for some input from people more experienced than I. Research can only get you so far.

This is what I've come up with:

*55 gallon planted*
-48" T5 light fixture, with proper bulbs (did my homework on daylight and plants needing both red & blue spectrum, etc; )
-Eheim Canister filter
-x2 200w Heaters

driftwood, accent rocks & slate terrace wall with drift wood going down almost the length of the tank like a big garden with eco complete substrate, caribsea super naturals sunset gold sand will be along the front half

For Plants I'm thinking of adding:
-amazon swords
-chain swords
-java fern
-java moss
-dwarf hairgras
-anubias nana
-anubias barteri
-watersprite
-anacharis
(plus more, still looking)

As for as fish go:

- x10-12 Neon Tetras (first fish I'd add)

- x10-12 Rummy Nose Tetras or Ember Tetras (both not 100% on, Looking for schooling fish that add some good color along side the Neons)

- x10 Sterbai Corys

- 1 Pair? of Bolivian Rams (Not sure if I should go with a pair, 4-6. I've been reading mixed input on this, some say a pair only, others say they do better in a small group)

- _Possibly_ some other high dwelling fish. It would be the last thing I put (months down the line). Been reading that a few Pearl Gourami would work well (1 male to 4 females) as Pearls are one of the more peaceful Gourami (Just a thought, considered hatchets as well, but I'd be more looking along the lines of something other than a schooling fish).

That's the basic concept of what I've been planning to set up. Nothing has been started yet aside from purchasing supplies. I'll be starting on hardscaping in the next week or so. The Bolivian Rams and the Corys are my favorite of the stock. Everything else could be subject to change depending on advice. 

I'm extremely excited for this upcoming tank and if anyone has any advice, comments, or questions, all are welcome and wanted. 

Any feedback would be wonderful. 

Thanks for for your time!! :-D


----------



## Canadian Fish

I can't offer any advice on Rams, but it sounds like you have researched your tank well and really know what you want in terms of plants and fish. Good call on the T5s, I have yet to make the switch. 

Looking forward to seeing some photos as this project progresses! With all those plants and driftwood it is sure to look amazing.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Canadian Fish said:


> I can't offer any advice on Rams, but it sounds like you have researched your tank well and really know what you want in terms of plants and fish. Good call on the T5s, I have yet to make the switch.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing some photos as this project progresses! With all those plants and driftwood it is sure to look amazing.


Thanks! I tried look up and plan out ever aspect I could. I wanted to get the right equipment right from the get go. Big fan of doing it right the first time, and not having to back track and fix =P. In theory it all seems dandy from what I can see but I'm always a bit paranoid =)

Hopefully I'll have some progress in the next week or so, at least with hardscaping and planting. Pictures to follow!


----------



## Byron

Welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.:wave:

Heaters and filter sound fine [Eheim are very well made]. The light might be an issue though. T5 comes in NO (normal output, if you can find this) and HO (high output). The latter is more common, and all else being equal (same spectrum, length) a T5 HO is about 1.5 times more intense light than a T5 NO or a T8. You mention bulbs in the plural, from which I am assuming more than one tube; are they 48-inch tubes? Without diffused CO2 you have to watch the light, as too much will be more than the nutrients can balance for the plants to use, and algae can become troublesome. Sometimes duration can help, less to keep the balance closer, along with a good cover of floating plants (Water Sprite is ideal for this, I have it in almost all my tanks).

Plants sound fine. Here I will mention our fish and plant profiles, second tab from the left in the blue bar across the top of the page. If the name is used identical to how it appears in the profile, it shades, example amazon sword, and you can click the name for that profile.

To the fish. You don't mention water parameters (GH and pH) but if memory serves me you have fairly soft water (the GH) in NY. So you should be fine with the soft water fish you mention. Brilliant Rummynose Tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri) is best in larger groups; in your 55g I would go with 15+, they will be much more of an interest. This is the best characin for "schooling" or shoaling, and they remain together swimming the length of the tank almost constantly.

Bolivian Ram, Mikrogeophagus altispinosus, is a nice smallish cichlid for community tanks, perhaps the best of all of them. But as it notes in the profile, they are best either singly (one fish) or in a bonded pair. Bonded means the fish must select their own mates, so if you want a pair, carefully observe them for a time in the store tank. It will become obvious if there is a bonded pair; buy them.

Generally I don't advise combining gourami and cichlids, mainly because they are so much alike. Males are territorial. However, the Pearl Gourami is one of the calmer of the medium gourami so it may work out. I would suggest one male with two females. I think it explains why in the profile.

Be careful mixing substrates, they tend to mix together unless they are well divided somehow. Water currents and gravity move the substrate around, more than one might expect.

Byron.


----------



## jentralala

Yeah, I second the substrate mixing. Especially when you vacuum the gravel, all of it will eventually mix. I tried to top my eco complete with sand and it's just made a mess.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Thanks for all the input! (It's much appreciated) Also, thanks for the tips on the fish and plant profiles =) I had actually already been browsing through them. Before I signed up for this forum I had found quite a bit of useful information from older posts on here (Numerous Google searches have led me to posts of yours Byron. They've been extremely helpful! So thank you!).

In regards to the lighting:
The fixture I got is the T5 HO that you mentioned. With two 48" tubes. I didn't realize that it made much of a difference. I actually didn't even see the normal T5 ones while browsing. I had planned to do quite a bit of floating plants in the tank (I love the look of Water Sprite). I suppose I'll have to keep an eye on it, mess with the timers, and see what happens (I'm unable to return the lighting). If I can't keep it under control I'll have to work something else out with that.

In regards to the substrate:
I had heard the same things about mixing different substrates. Though I had found numerous DIY posts about people creating a well built wall out of slate or the like to create a terrace or rock wall, sealing any small gaps with aquarium silicone, and having little to no spillage. I like the idea of having eco complete to benefit the plants and still having a nice sandy bank for the corydoras.

In regards to water parameters:
My pH is actually different from every source of water in my house. I found that kind of odd (I tested each source 3 times to make sure I wasn't failing). My sink was at around 7.3, my outside hose was at 8.0+, the water from my tub was at 7.0. I'm unable to test my GH at this time since I realized the Master Test kit I bought did not come with the hardness test. I'm currently waiting for that one to come in with my last supplies order.

In regards to the fish:
My first thoughts were to just have the pair of Bolivian Rams. Every Bio I read on them said single or bonded pair but after reading more posts from people, Quite a few of them said they're better in a small group. I'd prefer the pair, but the experiences others had caused me to second guess myself. (thank you for clearing that up!). A pair it is. I'll have to stalk my local fish store's stock for a while =).

I find the Rummy Nose Tetra's to be a beautiful fish. Their flash of red moving through out the tank is just perfect. I had been torn between those and the Ember Tetra (I love the orange color). But I prefer the size and schooling behavior of the Rummys better. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll probably go with the Rummys.

The Pearl Gourami were just a thought really. I've heard mixed reviews on them as well. I've heard that even though a very peaceful Gourami, many people end up with an extremely aggressive little fish. I may just forgo them completely. Might be too much of a compatibility risk for me. I was more or less looking for something other than a schooling fish to add a little variety to the tank.


----------



## redchigh

Have you thought about harlequin rasboras and/or black neons?

Also, you could try flourite black sand, or some other Black sandy plant substrate...

As for plants, you Have quite a few broad-leafed green p"ants.. You might want to break them Up with Crypt Wendtii 'Red', cabomba caroliana, Echinodorus var 'Vesuvius', And Proserpinaca palustris..


----------



## LadyKeiva

redchigh said:


> Have you thought about harlequin rasboras and/or black neons?
> 
> Also, you could try flourite black sand, or some other Black sandy plant substrate...
> 
> As for plants, you Have quite a few broad-leafed green plants.. You might want to break them Up with Crypt Wendtii 'Red', cabomba caroliana, Echinodorus var 'Vesuvius', And Proserpinaca palustris..



To be honest, even though Harlequins are so popular, I'm really just not a fan of them. I don't like they way they look for some reason. The Black Neons are awesome looking. They have great contrast. I was looking for more color than they have though, was why I skipped over them initially. Could be something I use down the road though, Thanks!. 

I'll have to check out the fluorite black sand substrate. I picked the Sunset Gold from CaribSea supernaturals for the grain size/texture. It seemed to be pretty uniform and smooth with the grains being 0.25 - 1mm. It had a deep goldish color rather than that obnoxiously bright white sand I see in so many tanks.

The plants I had listed in my initial post were just a rough idea of some of the ones I had looked up that were moderately easy to care for. I'm still in the process of browsing. All of the ones you listed above are gorgeous though. I love the reddish tints of Crypt Wendtii 'Red and the Proserpinaca palustris. And the shape of the Echinodorus var 'Vesuvius' is amazing. I love it. I'll most definitely look into grabbing that one for the tank

Thanks for the suggestions!


----------



## Byron

On the substrate, I would not waste your money on so-called enriched substrates like Eco-complete or Flourite. I have had the latter in my 70g for over 15 months and it has been very disappointing. My plants (same species, same conditions) in the other sand and gravel substrate tanks are just as good. You still have to dose liquid fertilizers so I can see no benefit for the expense, which is considerable.

I know I am always suggesting play sand, but it really is good. It is the least expensive substrate you can get ($7 a bag here, maybe less in the USA), and two bags will more than do your 55g. And it is authentic in appearance to the sand in Amazonia. Corys love it. I'm going to be replacing my Flourite tank with playsand when I get to it.

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> On the substrate, I would not waste your money on so-called enriched substrates like Eco-complete or Flourite. I have had the latter in my 70g for over 15 months and it has been very disappointing. My plants (same species, same conditions) in the other sand and gravel substrate tanks are just as good. You still have to dose liquid fertilizers so I can see no benefit for the expense, which is considerable.
> 
> I know I am always suggesting play sand, but it really is good. It is the least expensive substrate you can get ($7 a bag here, maybe less in the USA), and two bags will more than do your 55g. And it is authentic in appearance to the sand in Amazonia. Corys love it. I'm going to be replacing my Flourite tank with playsand when I get to it.
> 
> Byron.


I'll have to run out later and take a look at it in stores. Online I can see 50lb bags for $4.00. At that price and not much of a difference I may have to make a switch before I set up. Thanks.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Hi again 

I had posted a few weeks ago about input on my 55 gallon planted with Bolivian rams and received a lot of great and helpful input. I will now be doing all my planting Wednesday/Thursday and I'll be looking to add fish in the weeks to follow. 

The stock I was thinking of doing was as follows:

-1 pair Bolivian Rams
-10 to 14 Neon Tetra
-10 to 14 Harlequin Rasbora and/or 15 to 18 Brilliant Rummy Nose Tetra
-10 Sterbai Cory

I'm not sure what the best order of introduction would be for the new tank. Any advice would be much appreciated!!!


----------



## Byron

This will repeat what I mentioned in my response to your PM, but for the record so others know:

Cardinal tetra instead of neon tetra is worth considering since you have soft water (GH 4) and the pH at 7 will easily lower naturally. They (cardinals) are more colourful, and much more resilient to disease than neons these days.

Rasbora in first, then cardinals, then rummys, then corys, then rams.

This is a good combination, I just happen to have these same species (minus the rasbora) in my 115g (along with a few others too). They really are so well matched, it is almost a lesson in community fish.;-)

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Super helpful, exactly the info I was looking for. Anyone else with other suggestions would be great 

I'll most likely put in the Cardinal Tetra rather than the Neon. After browsing their profile and looking through videos and pictures they really are beautiful in a planted thank. 




Byron said:


> This will repeat what I mentioned in my response to your PM, but for the record so others know:
> 
> Cardinal tetra instead of neon tetra is worth considering since you have soft water (GH 4) and the pH at 7 will easily lower naturally. They (cardinals) are more colourful, and much more resilient to disease than neons these days.
> 
> Rasbora in first, then cardinals, then rummys, then corys, then rams.
> 
> This is a good combination, I just happen to have these same species (minus the rasbora) in my 115g (along with a few others too). They really are so well matched, it is almost a lesson in community fish.;-)
> 
> Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Anyone have any thoughts on doing a group of 10 or so Rosy Tetras instead of the Brilliant Rummy Nose?

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/rosy-tetra/

As much as I love the Rummy's and how they school. I was wondering if the Rosy Tetra would be a good suitable substitute. They seem to have the right requirements to fit with the rest of the stock. I thought they would be a a nice tribute to my Grandmother who just passed away last Monday (Her name was Rosie).


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on doing a group of 10 or so Rosy Tetras instead of the Brilliant Rummy Nose?
> 
> Rosy Tetra (Hyphessobrycon rosaceus) Profile
> 
> As much as I love the Rummy's and how they school. I was wondering if the Rosy Tetra would be a good suitable substitute. They seem to have the right requirements to fit with the rest of the stock. I thought they would be a a nice tribute to my Grandmother who just passed away last Monday (Her name was Rosie).


No problem with the fish itself. I would just point out that you are removing the only "semi-active" fish, as the rummys do school like no other tetra, in a group, from one end of the tank to the other. Not in any super-charged way to bother sedate fish, but they do like to swim more. None of the other mentioned tetra or the rasbora do this, nor does the ram; they will basically remain in a group under shade. The Rosy do this too. If this matters to you, perhaps replace the rasbora with Rosy Tetra.

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> No problem with the fish itself. I would just point out that you are removing the only "semi-active" fish, as the rummys do school like no other tetra, in a group, from one end of the tank to the other. Not in any super-charged way to bother sedate fish, but they do like to swim more. None of the other mentioned tetra or the rasbora do this, nor does the ram; they will basically remain in a group under shade. The Rosy do this too. If this matters to you, perhaps replace the rasbora with Rosy Tetra.
> 
> Byron.


I suspected as much. I'll have to give it some thought then I suppose. I do very much prefer the swimming habits of the Rummys, but I'd like to keep the orange coloration the Harlequin rasboras add (Promised my boyfriend I would incorporation colors he liked since he has to stare at it all day =P). I may just forgo the idea of the Rosys. We shall see! Thanks ^,^


----------



## LadyKeiva

Added the last of my plants :-D
Still need to find somewhere local to buy some nice smooth/flat river rocks. Left open spaces for them. No luck so far.
Used a bunch of different types of plants. Wanted to figure out what I had the best luck growing and what I liked the look of in the tank. Not sure I'm a fan of the hairgrass. Want more of the pygmy chain sword I think.

First group of fish going in to my QT tank next week.


----------



## Canadian Fish

Wow, looks really great!


----------



## Byron

Agree, that is what I call a very natural aquascape. Well done.

On the pygmy chain swords, be patient. Once they get settled, you will have runners with adventitious plants covering the substrate. If I had just $1 for every one of the runner plants I have tossed into the compost during the past year, I could buy a new car.:lol:

Byron.


----------



## beaslbob

I like your tank also.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Thank you both! Spent about 5-6 hours last night between water changes, figuring out where I wanted to plant, and then planting everything right. Was a late night.. one very tired little lady here lol.

I have no plans on buying more plants, I shall be patient =). I started with 9 quarter sized pieces of Amazon Frogbit about a a week and a half ago, its EXPLODED with growth (It's that mass of roots on the left). 

As for the Pygmy Chain Sword (planted a week and a half ago also) I was thinking of moving it a bit last night, I have it a gentle little tug to see if it had rooted well or not already... it must already be shooting roots out all over, there was no way it was going anywhere easily so I said forget it and let it be.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Just an update ^,^

All the plants seem to be doing wonderfully. The Cabomba Carolina and all the floating plants have shot up/spread rapidly. Swords have new shoots/leaves coming up, same for the anubias, and crypts. Hair grass is spreading a little bit, and I can see roots starting to go all over from (when looking at the glass under the tank) from the Pygmy Chain Swords and the grass. I even have a little Cardinal Plant and a Red Temple Plant that seem to be doing well (didn't know anything about these ones, it was given free from the seller). 

What doesn't seem to be doing well is the Java Moss, Echinodorus 'vesuvius' and 2 of the Wisteria plants. One Wisteria doesn't seem to be doing bad or good, Just sort of at a stand still, and the other one is loosing leaves but at the same time has new leaves coming out.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the look and the plant progress! =D
Still waiting to get my first stocking of fish for the QT. My preferred LFS is waiting on their next shipment and my second choice LFS didn't have stock that I was happy with. 

I'm tempted to just buy my Harlequins from Liveaquaria.com, I've heard decent things about them. Either I do that or just be patient and check my LFS again in the next couple weeks. Any thoughts?


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> Just an update ^,^
> 
> All the plants seem to be doing wonderfully. The Cabomba Carolina and all the floating plants have shot up/spread rapidly. Swords have new shoots/leaves coming up, same for the anubias, and crypts. Hair grass is spreading a little bit, and I can see roots starting to go all over from (when looking at the glass under the tank) from the Pygmy Chain Swords and the grass. I even have a little Cardinal Plant and a Red Temple Plant that seem to be doing well (didn't know anything about these ones, it was given free from the seller).
> 
> What doesn't seem to be doing well is the Java Moss, Echinodorus 'vesuvius' and 2 of the Wisteria plants. One Wisteria doesn't seem to be doing bad or good, Just sort of at a stand still, and the other one is loosing leaves but at the same time has new leaves coming out.
> 
> Overall I'm pretty happy with the look and the plant progress! =D
> Still waiting to get my first stocking of fish for the QT. My preferred LFS is waiting on their next shipment and my second choice LFS didn't have stock that I was happy with.
> 
> I'm tempted to just buy my Harlequins from Liveaquaria.com, I've heard decent things about them. Either I do that or just be patient and check my LFS again in the next couple weeks. Any thoughts?


I have found Java Moss to take quite a while to establish. But once it is... 

Stem plants can be fast or slow. Give them time.

Can't comment on LiveAquaria, never used them (I'm not in the US).


----------



## LadyKeiva

I think my lighting is too much for the java fern. Where ever the plants ate that aren't shaded by other plants, the floating or the swords, those ones are turning brown. The java fern in my
10 gal are doing fine. (The light is much weaker)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LadyKeiva

LadyKeiva said:


> I think my lighting is too much for the java fern. Where ever the plants ate that aren't shaded by other plants, the floating or the swords, those ones are turning brown. The java fern in my
> 10 gal are doing fine. (The light is much weaker)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Completely butchered that post on my phone lol. Was trying to say the JAVA MOSS seems to be doing better in the areas that are shaded by the swords and floating plants. The moss not shaded is turning brown.


----------



## beaslbob

FWIW IMHO IMe and all that :lol:

When I started planted tank back in the day I got a recommendation to basically use a mix of fast growing and slower growing plants. For both initial and long term conditioning.

I was just thinking on the thread there is a very good feed back for that kind of setup. At least having a mix of plants. Some may not do as well as others. But over all it increases the probability that enough will thrive to condition the tank.

but that just my fwiw, imho ime and all that

Worth at most .02


----------



## LadyKeiva

Decided to take out all the Eco complete in the small slate terrace in the right corner. >,< Decided to replace it with more sand. Preferred the look of the sand and didn't want the Cory's to end up scratching themselves
_Posted via Mobile Device_h


----------



## LadyKeiva

Well... Still waiting on first fish since my LFS hasn't gotten Harlequins in his passed two shipments for some reason. He's not sure why his supplier hasn't had them. Been toying with the idea of Diamond Tetras in the tank instead of the Harlequins. They're kind of big compared to my other shoaling type fish. Not sure if they're a good idea.

But anyways.. Just an update.

My tank is now a jungle and I love it. Need to do some pruning and I think I need move around some of the floaters, Maybe thin it out. Can't decided if its too much up there or not. The plants still seem to be getting plenty of light. My Frogbit is still expanding rapidly, as well as the Cabomba. One of the swords has a long stalk rising towards the surface. Pygmy chain swords are sending out some runners.. Even the Hairgrass is spreading a little bit.


----------



## Nilet699

That really does look like a jungle! I like it!

Whats your lighting/additives?


----------



## aussieJJDude

WOW, that looks awesome! :-D
LOVE it!


----------



## LadyKeiva

Nilet699 said:


> That really does look like a jungle! I like it!
> 
> Whats your lighting/additives?


Thanks all! ^,^

Just keeping it simple really.. Using the Seachem Flourish once or twice a week, I like to do it twice but I forget =X (just the plain one, not excel) and a dual bulb T5 HO light fixture on from about 11:30 to 9:30. I was worried about the lighting being too bright, but I think the thick cover of floating plants do a really good job of diffusing it. Pretty much no algae growth, a TINY bit on the glass, but it takes about 3 weeks to even notice any speckles again after scraping it all off. :-D


----------



## Byron

That is indeed a lovely aquascape, well done. Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

LadyKeiva said:


> Been toying with the idea of Diamond Tetras in the tank instead of the Harlequins. They're kind of big compared to my other shoaling type fish. Not sure if they're a good idea.]


Anyone see anything wrong with swapping in these guys (Moenkhausia pittieri) instead of one of the other shoaling type fish I had previously chosen for my stock list? (Trigonostigma heteromorpha, Paracheirodon axelrodi, Hemigrammus bleheri) (to go along side the cory cats and Bolivian Ram s).

They're about an inch bigger or so, other than that they seem to fit right in with all the conditions of my tank and requirements of the other fish.

ALSO, I had originally planned on 10 Sterbai Corydoras, would they do fine if I did 5-6 Sterbai, and 5-6 Blackfin Cory (Corydoras leucomelas)? Or should I just stick to one kind.

Thanks again


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> Anyone see anything wrong with swapping in these guys (Moenkhausia pittieri) instead of one of the other shoaling type fish I had previously chosen for my stock list? (Trigonostigma heteromorpha, Paracheirodon axelrodi, Hemigrammus bleheri) (to go along side the cory cats and Bolivian Ram s).
> 
> They're about an inch bigger or so, other than that they seem to fit right in with all the conditions of my tank and requirements of the other fish.
> 
> ALSO, I had originally planned on 10 Sterbai Corydoras, would they do fine if I did 5-6 Sterbai, and 5-6 Blackfin Cory (Corydoras leucomelas)? Or should I just stick to one kind.
> 
> Thanks again


I see no issues anywhere here. Starting with the corys, mixing species is fine; I prefer five minimum of each species, though I have fewer with some of mine for various reasons. The more corys together, the better.

On the other fish, the Diamonds would add a bit to the mid-level in the tank. Bolivian Ram are lower level fish, they rarely if ever get higher than the bottom 1/3 of the tank, and they feed off the substrate like corys. Both the cardinal and rummys remain in the lower 1/2 of the water column. The Diamonds and rasbora species here are mid-water fish. Just keep all this in mind as you select species, so you don't end up with a tank of all lower fish and nothing above mid-tank.

You might want to consider some upper-level species. Hatchetfish would be fine in this mix, esp the marble (Carnegiella strigata), a group of no less than 12, preferably 15-20.

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> I see no issues anywhere here. Starting with the corys, mixing species is fine; I prefer five minimum of each species, though I have fewer with some of mine for various reasons. The more corys together, the better.
> 
> On the other fish, the Diamonds would add a bit to the mid-level in the tank. Bolivian Ram are lower level fish, they rarely if ever get higher than the bottom 1/3 of the tank, and they feed off the substrate like corys. Both the cardinal and rummys remain in the lower 1/2 of the water column. The Diamonds and rasbora species here are mid-water fish. Just keep all this in mind as you select species, so you don't end up with a tank of all lower fish and nothing above mid-tank.
> 
> You might want to consider some upper-level species. Hatchetfish would be fine in this mix, esp the marble (Carnegiella strigata), a group of no less than 12, preferably 15-20.
> 
> Byron.


Good to hear the Diamonds would fit in okay. I've kind of fallen in love with their "sparklies" . And I figured the cories would be fine, everywhere I read it says as long as their is 5+ of each species they should be content.

The Marble Hatchetfish are pretty neat, I don't really like the plain silver colored ones so I never really put any thought in the Marbled ones. Those are quite pretty. Thanks for the suggestion ^,^.

I definitely like the idea of spreading the levels in the aquarium a bit more. So I'd be likely to nix the Harlequins and Rummys (as neat as their swimming is, to me the Marbles are a bit more interesting to me). 

I'm regretting getting the 55 gallon and not the 75. Just a bit more room to play with. There are so many wonderful fish.


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> Good to hear the Diamonds would fit in okay. I've kind of fallen in love with their "sparklies" . And I figured the cories would be fine, everywhere I read it says as long as their is 5+ of each species they should be content.
> 
> The Marble Hatchetfish are pretty neat, I don't really like the plain silver colored ones so I never really put any thought in the Marbled ones. Those are quite pretty. Thanks for the suggestion ^,^.
> 
> I definitely like the idea of spreading the levels in the aquarium a bit more. So I'd be likely to nix the Harlequins and Rummys (as neat as their swimming is, to me the Marbles are a bit more interesting to me).
> 
> I'm regretting getting the 55 gallon and not the 75. Just a bit more room to play with. There are so many wonderful fish.


You have space for all these, you know. This is a 55g, and well planted. Just to throw out some numbers, here is what I would do with the species you have named:

Marble Hatchetfish - 15
Diamond Tetra - 7
Harlequin Rasbora - 9 to 12
Cardinal Tetra - 12 to 15
Brilliant Rummy Nose Tetra - 20
Bolivian Ram - one or a bonded pair
Corydoras - 15 or more

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> You have space for all these, you know. This is a 55g, and well planted. Just to throw out some numbers, here is what I would do with the species you have named:
> 
> Marble Hatchetfish - 15
> Diamond Tetra - 7
> Harlequin Rasbora - 9 to 12
> Cardinal Tetra - 12 to 15
> Brilliant Rummy Nose Tetra - 20
> Bolivian Ram - one or a bonded pair
> Corydoras - 15 or more
> 
> Byron.


Oh wow, That just felt like so many fish to me. But then again, I suppose most of the fish are very thin/long rather than full body fish. Tiny bioloads. I also did not realize that having a tank well planted helps so much either. I knew helped but I did not not it was a significant amount. That makes me a very happy camper.

Thank you for all your help, it's been both useful and eye opening.


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> Oh wow, That just felt like so many fish to me. But then again, I suppose most of the fish are very thin/long rather than full body fish. Tiny bioloads. I also did not realize that having a tank well planted helps so much either. I knew helped but I did not not it was a significant amount. That makes me a very happy camper.
> 
> Thank you for all your help, it's been both useful and eye opening.


I thought this would be the reaction.;-) And I was serious, not just teasing you on.

One thing we have to learn as aquarists is just what determines the number of fish we can have in a given tank. The bioload is obviously important, and yes, live plants help a lot with this. And so do regular partial water changes. But this is only one aspect.

The species of fish and their behaviours is of paramount importance. This is why I harp so much in threads about compatibility--but _*true*_ compatibility. Fish that share the same specific requirements such as water parameters, water current from the filter, plants/wood/rock as cover or to break up territories, etc. will manage together better than those that do not. And then we come to numbers and behaviours. Shoaling fish need a group, and the more the better, and this actually helps the bioload because the fish will be less stressed so they will have less of an impact on the biology in the tank. If they are compatible in terms of their behaviours, they will be less stressed and this again impacts the biology. Fish that are forever nipping one another are sending out allomones (from species to species) and pheromones (within a species) that are chemical signals the other fish read and this can stress them further, negatively impacting the biological system.

Heiko Bleher has written about displays he has set up replicating natural biotopes in South America and elsewhere. The numbers of fish he puts in these tanks would astonish most aquarists. But it works, because the fish are truly compatible and are in their natural expected environment.

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> I thought this would be the reaction.;-) And I was serious, not just teasing you on.
> 
> One thing we have to learn as aquarists is just what determines the number of fish we can have in a given tank. The bioload is obviously important, and yes, live plants help a lot with this. And so do regular partial water changes. But this is only one aspect.
> 
> The species of fish and their behaviours is of paramount importance. This is why I harp so much in threads about compatibility--but _*true*_ compatibility. Fish that share the same specific requirements such as water parameters, water current from the filter, plants/wood/rock as cover or to break up territories, etc. will manage together better than those that do not. And then we come to numbers and behaviours. Shoaling fish need a group, and the more the better, and this actually helps the bioload because the fish will be less stressed so they will have less of an impact on the biology in the tank. If they are compatible in terms of their behaviours, they will be less stressed and this again impacts the biology. Fish that are forever nipping one another are sending out allomones (from species to species) and pheromones (within a species) that are chemical signals the other fish read and this can stress them further, negatively impacting the biological system.
> 
> Heiko Bleher has written about displays he has set up replicating natural biotopes in South America and elsewhere. The numbers of fish he puts in these tanks would astonish most aquarists. But it works, because the fish are truly compatible and are in their natural expected environment.
> 
> Byron.


That all makes complete sense actually. And if you take the gist of it, you really can apply to just about any animal. One shouldn't really go against nature. Things end up they way there are in nature for a reason, it works. 

I've read bits and pieces of work about the chemical signals of the fish and things of that nature but most articles tend to go a bit over my head without the proper back knowledge. Was great to have a simplistic version of that topic =):thumbsup:


----------



## LadyKeiva

:blueyay: Acclimating my first group of fish into my QT Tank ^,^

Here's to having a happy and healthy aquarium :cheers:

Thanks again for everyone who commented and helped. ^,^I will continue to update and post pictures.

Jessica


----------



## Nilet699

excellent!
whats your first group?!?


----------



## LadyKeiva

Nilet699 said:


> excellent!
> whats your first group?!?


Picked up 9 ~1in. Harlequin Rasbora from my LFS. Spent about 15 minutes watching them in the store looking for illness and what not, they actually seem very healthy. They were pretty dull colored in the store, but as soon as they were done acclimating and got into the tank with the plants they brightened up a bit almost immediately. Didn't take them very long at all to relax and start exploring the tank. They seem to enjoy swimming through the dangling roots. For a back of a better term they simply looked happy in their new temp. home. Its amazing what proper conditions will do ^,^ Can't wait to see them with the lights on later!


My QT is only 10 gallons, Didn't want to get too many for the first time having fish in it. The tank is planted though not as heavily as my main tank. I wanted to be able to keep a better eye on the fish in there(Frogtbit, Watersprite, Wisteria, Pennywort, Java Moss).


----------



## LadyKeiva

Been in the tank less than 24hrs and they're spawning ^,^ I guess that means they like it?
On a related note.. Only looks like I have two females, Think I may need to hunt a couple more down.


----------



## LadyKeiva




----------



## Molinious

stunning looking aquarium!! i think the fitting word would be sublime


----------



## LadyKeiva

Molinious said:


> stunning looking aquarium!! i think the fitting word would be sublime


Thanks a bunch! =D Kind of shocked I was able to pull off what I wanted to.


----------



## beaslbob

LadyKeiva said:


> Thanks a bunch! =D Kind of shocked I was able to pull off what I wanted to.


 
I'm not.

I know you could do it all along.:lol:


----------



## LadyKeiva

Just a link to a video of the new Harlequins after their first night in QT =)


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> New Harlequin Rasboras in QT - YouTube
> 
> Just a link to a video of the new Harlequins after their first night in QT =)


Lovely. They are still "exploring" and will settle down in time. And what an ideal environment for them, couldn't be better, an underwater jungle. Well done.:welldone:

Byron.


----------



## Chesh

Aaaaah, they look so HAPPY in there! Makes me grin just looking at them! I love your tank, it's really growing in so well - I must have come UN-subscribed from this thread or something, but what fun going back and looking at all the pictures - it grew right before my eyes! Congrats on the new babies, can't wait to see what comes next!


----------



## Molinious

Looks as tho one of your rasboras lost a contact lens and there all chipping in to find it! :BIGwinky:


----------



## LadyKeiva

Just a quick update..

Its been almost 4 weeks with the little Harlequins in QT, no issues whats so ever. Perfectly healthy and happy. (Still want to get 3 more females though to spread the boy's attentions a bit more. They aren't TOO bad, Just want to give the ladies a break ^,^).

That is.. Until last night, 2 days shy of 4 weeks, the heater in that tank decided to stop working (It's a brand new heater too, maybe less than 2 weeks old). I'm glad I'm paranoid about checking my thermometers. The water temp. started dropping and fast. So around 1:00 AM last night I sat there acclimating the Harleys for the big tank. They weren't happy campers.

That being said, woke up this morning and they seemed to have settled back down a bit. Lots of exploring though it looks like. They look so small in a 55 =)

Going to get a new heater, do a thorough cleaning of the quarantine tank, and work on getting my next group of fish. I'm thinking the Cardinals are next, That's if I can find them on the smaller side/juvenile-ish, I'd prefer not to start off with the "Jumbo" ones that everyone carries. Possibly 3 female Harlequins as well.

Jessica


----------



## beaslbob

that is one awesome tank.

sure sound like things are progressing nicely if not outstandingly.


----------



## LadyKeiva

beaslbob said:


> that is one awesome tank.
> 
> sure sound like things are progressing nicely if not outstandingly.


Thank you very much! =) A bit of research can go a long long way it seems!


----------



## Chesh

It looks lovely! I'm also paranoid about checking temps, very happy you caught it in time, and to hear that the little lovelies are doing so well! Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see where you go next!!! Personally, I'd just up the Rasa population, rather than adding another small shoaler - just think of how amazing a gigantic shoal of ONE fish looks.  But that's just what *I* like, good luck with your Cardinals, hope you find some super healthy ones! OH! And if you can't return the heater, call the company. I've had heater issues quite like yours, and had them replaced by the company for free.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Chesherca said:


> It looks lovely! I'm also paranoid about checking temps, very happy you caught it in time, and to hear that the little lovelies are doing so well! Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see where you go next!!! Personally, I'd just up the Rasa population, rather than adding another small shoaler - just think of how amazing a gigantic shoal of ONE fish looks.  But that's just what *I* like, good luck with your Cardinals, hope you find some super healthy ones! OH! And if you can't return the heater, call the company. I've had heater issues quite like yours, and had them replaced by the company for free.


Thanks =D. I considered doing one big group, Not going to lie I do like how all your Jellybeans look swimming around together. But I like having a variety. Like watching a little underwater city, with all these different kinds of fish coexisting in their own little world. I also wanted a bunch of different colors in the tank. Bit of a fan of bright colors. 

And they better take back the heater. I've spent so much on their website its crazy. That and their stupid heater could have killed all my little fish! I would have raged.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Harlequin Rasboras Day One in Main Tank


----------



## Molinious

Why can we only click the like button once!!!! Awsome tank! Beautiful shoal going on!


----------



## LadyKeiva

Molinious said:


> Why can we only click the like button once!!!! Awsome tank! Beautiful shoal going on!


They seem to enjoy playing follow the females . I would like to add 3-4 more (there are only 2).


----------



## Molinious

i just hope my next 1 will be as goodlooking as youv got yours


----------



## Perlumia

Your tank is fantastic! I am so looking forward to mine getting more lush and jungle-like, but I think I need to add more plants. I like your variety.


----------



## Chesh

Variety is good, too! I can't wait to watch how this beautiful tank develops! Good luck with the return on the heater - hopefully that goes smoothly!


----------



## LadyKeiva

So, random news.. I was in the middle of giving my quarantine tank a good cleaning to start to prepare for newcomers. And I stumbled upon fry! Evidently my little rasboras were very happy indeed! =)


----------



## beaslbob

congrates!!


----------



## Chesh

That's awesome! SO glad the little un's made it through the cool temps. . . *GRINS* Baby fish are sooooo CUTE! Congratulations!


----------



## LadyKeiva

Chesherca said:


> That's awesome! SO glad the little un's made it through the cool temps. . . *GRINS* Baby fish are sooooo CUTE! Congratulations!


Was definitely a neat little surprise. Looks to be about 6 of them that I can see. They're super tiny. Its fun you can see them eating random specks in the water.

I really had no intentions of raising any fry. I was actually expecting to pick up the Cardinals and more female Rasbora this coming weekend. But now I don't know if I should wait and try to let these guys grow, or just get the Cardinals and females anyway. Not sure if I have the heart, they're so cute. But I'm not sure if they'll actually survive even in the tank by themselves.. and I want moar fish!! I may cave and just see if they'll make it to adulthood >,<. I don't want to intentionally lead them to their doom with more fish lol

Anyone know how long it'll take them to no longer be "bite sized" compared to their parents? lol


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> Was definitely a neat little surprise. Looks to be about 6 of them that I can see. They're super tiny. Its fun you can see them eating random specks in the water.
> 
> I really had no intentions of raising any fry. I was actually expecting to pick up the Cardinals and more female Rasbora this coming weekend. But now I don't know if I should wait and try to let these guys grow, or just get the Cardinals and females anyway. Not sure if I have the heart, they're so cute. But I'm not sure if they'll actually survive even in the tank by themselves.. and I want moar fish!! I may cave and just see if they'll make it to adulthood >,<. I don't want to intentionally lead them to their doom with more fish lol
> 
> Anyone know how long it'll take them to no longer be "bite sized" compared to their parents? lol


It will take several weeks. But they need food, lots of it, and the natural live food will likely not be sufficient to sustain many of them. You can get liquid fry foods. And grind up some good flake food into powder, mix it with a bit of tank water, and use a pipette to squirt it down among plants, wood, etc, where the fry are.

I wouldn't add other fish to the tank if you want fry to survive. I have found that fry that do survive to say 1/4 inch are rarely then eaten by the parent fish. But any new fish would see this as ready food.

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> It will take several weeks. But they need food, lots of it, and the natural live food will likely not be sufficient to sustain many of them. You can get liquid fry foods. And grind up some good flake food into powder, mix it with a bit of tank water, and use a pipette to squirt it down among plants, wood, etc, where the fry are.
> 
> I wouldn't add other fish to the tank if you want fry to survive. I have found that fry that do survive to say 1/4 inch are rarely then eaten by the parent fish. But any new fish would see this as ready food.
> 
> Byron.



Thanks for the info. I need to decide if I want to attempt to keep them alive or not. I had planned to get more female rasbora to distribute any male aggression better in the group. I could end up all male fry, and then need even MORE rasbora. Not sure that's something I want to end up having. 

Leaning more towards following my original plan, and if my some crazy miracle one of them lives, then good for him/her. 

We shall see =)

Thanks for helping


----------



## beaslbob

LadyKeiva said:


> Thanks for the info. I need to decide if I want to attempt to keep them alive or not. I had planned to get more female rasbora to distribute any male aggression better in the group. I could end up all male fry, and then need even MORE rasbora. Not sure that's something I want to end up having.
> 
> Leaning more towards following my original plan, and if my some crazy miracle one of them lives, then good for him/her.
> 
> We shall see =)
> 
> Thanks for helping


 you might want to check infusoria cultures.


----------



## LadyKeiva

*Update time!*

Figured an update was way past due for this tank. Been pretty busy as of late; just adopted a new puppy a month or so ago, she's a handful. Haven't had much time to sit and write a post between work, puppy training, vet visits, dentist visits (Bleh!!), water changes, yada yada. 

Anyways, a lot has changed in the tank since my last post. MOSTLY good.

INCOMING big mass of text!! :-D

The main tank its self is doing decent, still working out which plants I like, and what does better than what. 

I've taken out the cabomba, it grew like a freaking weed at first, then it just started going down hill. It was starting to get too tall, so I cut the bottoms and replanted. Then they wouldn't grow at all, then stems deteriorated down to nothing, they started to re-sprout, and then just sat for a month at about 1 inch. At that point I gave up, and took what was left of them out.

The dwarf hair grass isn't doing much, maybe spreading a TINY bit, but for the most part it just grew in height. 

The pygmy chain sword pretty much stop grow, was at a stand still. I took the plantlets on the left, and move them with the ones on the right. Then went root tab happy around the tank and now they're starting to grow some new leaves. Thankfully.

Swords are doing good. The few bladder snails I have left in there have munched on some of them but oh well I guess. They're Definitely much taller and they all have a bunch more leaves. 

I recently (last week maybe) bought a Rose Sword, they guy at the store crumbled the tips of a few of its leaves when he tied the bag.. I was annoyed to say the least. But it was the best looking one they had (the most stems/leaves) so I decided to just deal.

All the anubias are growing leaves left and right. I'd like to add more to the new driftwood I put in, along with some lace java I think. 

I added 3 more pieces of the malaysian driftwood, moved around the old ones. I found some pieces that created good caves, I was looking for more places for cories to eventually hide under. 

(Had to remove the manzanita wood, its been in there for months and last week it started to grow some white fungus on it. I didn't want to bother with trying to clean it up and risk more fungus.)

Frogbit is like a weed still, I chuck tons of it every water change. I also have to trim the roots twice a week or they invade the swords. 

I also need to figure out what I want to do about my random red temple plant, I don't really care for it. And I haven't maintained it that well. ::Shrug:: into another tank I suppose. I just need to figure out what to replace it with =)

I moved my giant masses of floating watersprite, it just seemed to messy for me. I took all the healthy plantlets from the mass and decided to try them out planted in the substrate. So far it seems to be doing great. It kept browning on the edges when it was floating, I think my lighting was too strong that close for it. Must have been burning it. Either way, it seems to be loving being planted 

Fishy time!

The Harlequin Rasbora are doing excellent. They're such curious little fish. Always exploring the roots looking for food after I trim them, and playing in the bubbles during water changes. I also had 3 fry survive to adult hood from their spawning in the QT tank MONTHS ago.

I had a group of Diamond Tetra in QT a few weeks ago, but sadly they must have been carrying something nasty because in a matter of a week all but two of them died. Didn't show any signs of fungus or rot, etc. Would hit one, they would get lethargic, then be dead the next day. One of the corpses seemed to have white bumps all over it and its mouth area turned darkish, but that was the only one that really showed anything wrong. Checked my parameters like a fiend, ph, ammonia, hardness, nitrites, nitrates, temp., etc. no changes from its normal. Kept on water changes and no luck. Its been a week and a half or so since the last death, and the last two don't seem to be showing any signs of the illness, but we shall see. 

Just more to show that you should ALWAYS QUARANTINE new fish friends. I would have been devastated my my razzies got sick too.

On a much happier note! I set up a SECOND QT to start another group of fish for the big tank. Due to my boyfriends love of them, and my own new found fascination with them; we decided to swap out the cardinals that were planned and replace them with a group of Black Phantoms. They've been in QT for about 2-3 weeks now without a single hiccup. Again, we shall see.

They have such a subtle beauty. The males have such a pretty velvety black, with the TINIEST bit of red. And they have a beautiful blue iridescent sheen around the black spot they on their sides. And the females are just as pretty in their own right. I love their creamy red color with the black fins. I like the color variation in one group of fish. 

I think if all goes well with the Phantoms, and I sort out things with the Diamonds. Little Rummy Nose friends are next =).

I suppose that's everything I can possible think of right now on this tank, there's been A LOT going on with it. Now its picture time. Sorry for the crappy quality. I don't seem to remember where I put my real camera >,<. It's also hard to get decent pictures as a puppy is trying to eat your hands while you take the picture =D

This first one is right after a water change, the rasbora are zooming around the freshly cut roots.









This is the tank corner, on the left is the new Black Phantom QT. Looks like the dinosaurs and dragon friends made a cameo in this one =X. They're just up there for shits and giggles.









Closer shot of the corner









Closer shot of the left side in the main tank. Excuse the mess, its just before the water change =)









And here's shots of the new puppy just for kicks =D


----------



## Byron

Your experience with the plants is perfectly normal. Try this and that, and some will do well, others won't. Stay with what works.

On the fish, QT is very wise these days. Interesting I had a very similar issue with Diamond Tetra, lost half of them in a few days. Those left (now after 5 months) are not looking the best. I got another group from another store, and they are fine. I have had this same problem with other fish from one store, and no longer buy from them. But I QT everything for 4-6 weeks. Internal protozoan are more common it seems, and there is often no way to see this until the fish suddenly deterioriates and dies shortly thereafter.

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> Your experience with the plants is perfectly normal. Try this and that, and some will do well, others won't. Stay with what works.
> 
> On the fish, QT is very wise these days. Interesting I had a very similar issue with Diamond Tetra, lost half of them in a few days. Those left (now after 5 months) are not looking the best. I got another group from another store, and they are fine. I have had this same problem with other fish from one store, and no longer buy from them. But I QT everything for 4-6 weeks. Internal protozoan are more common it seems, and there is often no way to see this until the fish suddenly deterioriates and dies shortly thereafter.
> 
> Byron.


That is interesting indeed. I'll most likely buy more Diamond Tetra elsewhere if the remaining two survive. I was surprised, everything from this store I've been going to seems so healthy. But that just goes to show you never know whats lurking. The Black Phantoms I recently purchased are from the same store and so far them seem perfectly healthy. Same for the Rasboras I previously bought. We shall see!


----------



## beaslbob

good looking tank, qt and dog.

Congratues.

worth more than .02


----------



## LadyKeiva

Question:

Currently both my QT tanks are 10 gallons. My next group of fish will be the Rummy Nose Tetra which is supposed to be a larger group of fish (~20 fish) compared to the two groups I've done previously.

I was wondering if I should split the group into two groups and put half in each 10 gallon. Or if its much better that I set up a larger tank to house the full group? I can attempt to find space for my empty 20 long laying around.. Or possibly try and pick up a cheap 20 high (which I have more space for).

ALSO, would it be better to add half that group at a time to the big tank? Add half, wait a few days, then add the other? Or could I add the group all at once?

Thanks again!!

Jessica =)


----------



## LadyKeiva

Naturally, after talking about how great the Rasbora are doing. One went missing in the last few hours. Just found him laying on his side up in the floating plants, breathing rapidly. I move the plants aside a little and he proceeded to spin around.

Any idea of what this could be?

Just checked ammonia and the rest of my parameters, no spikes. (use the API Master test kit). Did a water change yesterday I think, did nothing different, added nothing extra. Just trimmed plants.


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> Question:
> 
> Currently both my QT tanks are 10 gallons. My next group of fish will be the Rummy Nose Tetra which is supposed to be a larger group of fish (~20 fish) compared to the two groups I've done previously.
> 
> I was wondering if I should split the group into two groups and put half in each 10 gallon. Or if its much better that I set up a larger tank to house the full group? I can attempt to find space for my empty 20 long laying around.. Or possibly try and pick up a cheap 20 high (which I have more space for).
> 
> ALSO, would it be better to add half that group at a time to the big tank? Add half, wait a few days, then add the other? Or could I add the group all at once?
> 
> Thanks again!!
> 
> Jessica =)


More space is always better, thinking of both the [physical space and the nitrification from more fish being added at once. But as the rummys will likely be quite small, they would likely be OK together in a 10g. I have a 20g high set up permanently as my QT for new fish, since my fish acquisitions usually means a lot of fish at once. It is planted with plants culled from the main tanks, and has a couple bits of wood. This provides a more natural environment which I believe settles the fish faster. If I need to medicate and the plants might die they are no loss if removed.

When the time comes to add the fish to the main tank, add them all at once, always. Not only will this be less stressful, but the group will enter their new home together which is even less stress for many species.

Byron.


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> Naturally, after talking about how great the Rasbora are doing. One went missing in the last few hours. Just found him laying on his side up in the floating plants, breathing rapidly. I move the plants aside a little and he proceeded to spin around.
> 
> Any idea of what this could be?
> 
> Just checked ammonia and the rest of my parameters, no spikes. (use the API Master test kit). Did a water change yesterday I think, did nothing different, added nothing extra. Just trimmed plants.


Keep an eye on the fish. Is this still in QT, or the main tank?

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> Keep an eye on the fish. Is this still in QT, or the main tank?
> 
> Byron.


The main tank sadly. The Rasbora is now dead >,<. Counted all of then at feeding time a few hours before. So this all happened in a matter of hours


----------



## Chesh

I'm sorry to hear. . . 

I was just reading another thread in which someone found one of his new rasbora to have jumped and landed stuck on the top of his Frogbit. He caught it in time, and got him back into the water. . .it was a different type of fish (Hengels), but do you think something similar could have happened to yours? 

Everything else sounds like it's going really well for you, and the tank(s) look gorgeous! Keep up the great work!


----------



## Byron

Yes, just keep an eye on the other fish. Fish do die. I tend not to do anything unless I am fairly certain it is a communicable disease, or if something is obviously wrong in the tank with the water. An individual fish may have been injured internally at some point between the hatchery and the store and your tank. Fish get cancer, heat attacks, liver failure, kidney failure... without dissection this is almost impossible to diagnose, but they are not contagious (unless the disease is being caused by the water conditions of course).

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Well.. So far no other dead Harlequin Rasbora in the main tank. 

The day after the death of the single rasbora, one of the others was kind of pale and lingering behind some plants for a few ours. Next day I was 1 short all day (on top of the first loss), with the one that was lingering no where to be found. 

Counted again the next day... I was back up to the number of fish after that first loss. All of them looking perfectly healthy. I have no idea where that lingering one was.. I feel like I'm losing my mind. But since then, no issues or strange behavior. (It's been a week since the mysterious loss of the fish).

On another note, my Black Phantom Tetras in QT are scheduled to be added to the main tank this upcoming Thursday (May 16th). Should I post pone this another week? Or continue as planned if no strange happenings occur in the main tank by Thursday?

Also, @ Ches, The fish that died didn't seem to be on top of the Frogbit, just laying/floating up under it. I don't have much room between the water level and the lid for them to get far with jumping anyway. But you never know >,<

=)
Jessica


----------



## Chesh

Glad to hear things are looking back up, and that all is well! Mysterious issues always make me so nervous. . . so yeah,_ I'd _keep them in QT just a little bit longer, even if it may not be something overly concerning - just because I'm fussy like that! A little bit more patience to be sure wouldn't cause any harm . . .how long have they been in QT now?


----------



## LadyKeiva

Chesherca said:


> Glad to hear things are looking back up, and that all is well! Mysterious issues always make me so nervous. . . so yeah,_ I'd _keep them in QT just a little bit longer, even if it may not be something overly concerning - just because I'm fussy like that! How long have they been in QT now?


I'm a bit paranoid about it. Not sure if my paranoia or excitement to have more life in my tank will win >,<. Hoping paranoia wins this one, I'd hate to have more issues because I couldn't be patient.

It'll be a 5 weeks May 16th since they entered QT.


----------



## Chesh

I hear ya, it's so hard to wait! I personally QT for at_ least_ 6 weeks. . . sometimes longer. . . if that makes you feel any more patient?


----------



## LadyKeiva

Chesherca said:


> I hear ya, it's so hard to wait! I personally QT for at_ least_ 6 weeks. . . sometimes longer. . . if that makes you feel any more patient?


 Not really! I'll probably end up waiting though. My rasbora were in QT _forever_ (2 months I think) because I kept moving my 55 around too much. Wanted it just right before they went in.

>,< I caught the vivarium big earlier this week. I'll just have to drown myself in research and ignore the urge to move fish.


----------



## Byron

I tend to go 5-6 weeks in QT, sometimes depending upon the fish [what they are, and where I got them]. I have had issues occur 2-3 months after acquisition, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and you will usually see health issues within 6 weeks.

A week (while in QT) of feeding food mixed with metronidazole is not a bad idea these days, what with the internal protozoan in hatchery fish.

Byron.


----------



## LadyKeiva

Byron said:


> I tend to go 5-6 weeks in QT, sometimes depending upon the fish [what they are, and where I got them]. I have had issues occur 2-3 months after acquisition, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and you will usually see health issues within 6 weeks.
> 
> A week (while in QT) of feeding food mixed with metronidazole is not a bad idea these days, what with the internal protozoan in hatchery fish.
> 
> Byron.


I'll probably extend my QT period to the 26th. Just to be safe.. Even though I'm all antsy to move/buy more fish. I'll have to look into buying that medication as part new accuisition routine. That's a great idea. Thanks =)


----------



## Byron

LadyKeiva said:


> I'll probably extend my QT period to the 26th. Just to be safe.. Even though I'm all antsy to move/buy more fish. I'll have to look into buying that medication as part new accuisition routine. That's a great idea. Thanks =)


Seachem make it, just called Metronidazole. And I have also used (successfully) a product called Metro+, made I think by Aquarium Solutions. Both are a white powder that you mix with flake food in a zip-lock bag, enough flake for say a week's feeding, and then feed normally every day with only this food. Some of the drug gets in the water, but that is fine; if the fish eat it, all the better. Most fish are fine with this drug; I have characins, barbs, cichlids, catfish.


----------



## jaysee

Another medication for internal parasites is prazipro. It's pretty concentrated - the small bottle will do unless you have a whole bunch of tanks and a pond and are going to use it prophylactically, which you can do.


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## jentralala

Byron said:


> Seachem make it, just called Metronidazole. And I have also used (successfully) a product called Metro+, made I think by Aquarium Solutions. Both are a white powder that you mix with flake food in a zip-lock bag, enough flake for say a week's feeding, and then feed normally every day with only this food. Some of the drug gets in the water, but that is fine; if the fish eat it, all the better. Most fish are fine with this drug; I have characins, barbs, cichlids, catfish.



Can it be mixed with any fish food (NLS pellets, for example), or only flake?


----------



## LadyKeiva

jentralala said:


> Can it be mixed with any fish food (NLS pellets, for example), or only flake?


Good question lol


----------



## Byron

jentralala said:


> Can it be mixed with any fish food (NLS pellets, for example), or only flake?


Flake was suggested to me, because the oils in the flake food will assimilate the drug. This is why mixing some in the bag ahead of time, sufficient to feed for a week or more, works. It gives the drug time to get into the flake.

I had to use this with sinking foods too of course, and that was not so easy.

You can also mix it with thawed frozen bloodworms.

Byron.


----------



## Chesh

When I used this treatment, I mixed the medication in with flake. My reasoning was that fish would eat more flake than pellets, since the pellets are denser? No idea if there is any truth in that, but this method has worked for me two times now

In both cases I used API's General Cure Powder, which is a combination of Metronidazole and Praziquantel - both of which I think were recommended on this thread. I was also treating for an obviously present illness.

ETA: What Byron said sounds even better!


----------



## Byron

jaysee said:


> Another medication for internal parasites is prazipro. It's pretty concentrated - the small bottle will do unless you have a whole bunch of tanks and a pond and are going to use it prophylactically, which you can do.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


I assume you are referring to the liquid that is added to the tank water? I am not aware of praziquantel used as an additive to food for ingestion.

I recently used Prazipro for gill flukes. As with so many water additives, these can be highly stressful on fish, as indeed this was.

These additives do little if anything for internal protozoan, or if they do, it takes much longer. When fish begin dying at the rate of 3-5 each day, you want to get the best drug into the fish where it will do the most good the fastest, and provided the fish are still eating, this is the way to do it.

Byron.


----------



## jaysee

I treat every new fish with prazipro while they are in quarantine. Doesn't seem to stress the fish in the least:dunno: but then I've only treated close to a couple hundred fish with it. Haven't had a single case of IP since I started this practice, for what it's worth.


----------



## LadyKeiva

No more deaths so far. All fish currently being treated with medicated food =)

Hears to healthy fish

Thanks for the suggestions everyone ^,^

Much much MUCH appreciated


----------



## LadyKeiva

Been a while since I updated... Fish are still sickly with the same strange thing. 

At this point, I think I'll just be moving the group out of the 55 and downsize them to the 20 long we have sitting around.

Don't feel safe with putting anything in that tank again. I'll be breaking it down completely and setting up a smaller community in a completely different tank /sigh. 

No sense in doing work on a large tank for such a small amount of fish. Who know's maybe its something in the tank itself and they'll miraculously
recover, Heh.


----------



## Chesh

*SQUEEZES*

I'm so SAD for you! You put so much time and hard work into this tank, and the fish seemed so happy there - I wish I knew something that could help you out. :/ 

I don't think I'd want to put already sick/stressed fish through a tank move, unless it was going to be a direct benefit to them (like into QT for medication). I could be wrong, but I'd worry that the stress from the move would only make things worse, not to mention possibly spreading a pathogen to another tank. I guess the possibility of there being some contaminate in the tank is there. . . but it seems doubtful?

GAHH! I'm so upset that you're going through this. *hugs* And I hate to see you give up on this tank! T.T


----------



## LadyKeiva

Chesh said:


> *SQUEEZES*
> 
> I'm so SAD for you! You put so much time and hard work into this tank, and the fish seemed so happy there - I wish I knew something that could help you out. :/
> 
> I don't think I'd want to put already sick/stressed fish through a tank move, unless it was going to be a direct benefit to them (like into QT for medication). I could be wrong, but I'd worry that the stress from the move would only make things worse, not to mention possibly spreading a pathogen to another tank. I guess the possibility of there being some contaminate in the tank is there. . . but it seems doubtful?
> 
> GAHH! I'm so upset that you're going through this. *hugs* And I hate to see you give up on this tank! T.T


Yeah I'm not sure what to do, in the 55 it's much more difficult for me to keep an eye on them while I treat them. They've recently started to dart away and hide in the back left corner behind driftwood and swords for some reason when anyone goes close to the tank. 

My water parameters are still in check, and we do water changes weekly. (That's another reason we want to downsize the 55, takes us like 3-4 hours with all of our tanks with all of the trimming and what not.. 55, 46, 10 x2, 5 x3, and 2.5.. the 55 and 46 taking the most time.) Their symptoms are so varied I haven't been able to pin point what it is. 

I'm honestly starting to just think it maybe really crappy stock. We're no longer buying from that shop. We've had issues with everything we've bought from there, all the shoalers had similar issues (Rasbora, Diamonds, Black phantoms).We thought it was just a fluke but we recently bought two little plecos that we tried to QT for Matt's tank died with in a week of buying them. Where as the other one (Nessie) from a different store.. is thriving. 

We're just weighing our options at this point. Trying to make our lives a little less chaotic while making the fishy lives a bit more stress free.


----------

