# 29 gallon build



## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Hello everyone, it has been a while since I've been on this forum with holidays and stuff, but now that everything is almost over, I am coming back with a plan 
So as you may know, my plans for a large discus tank and a nano reef were crushed. I have found a compromise that is halfway between those two extremes.
I have a 29gallon freshwater aquarium and a 10gallon freshwater aquarium. They are inhabited by guppies and kribs and tetras and although I love my tanks, I am kinda getting bored of them 
So my master plan is to convert the 29 gallon aquarium into a FOWLR aquarium, using the 10 gallon as a sump. Here is the layout of this plan:
-29 gallons
-30lbs live rock
- 4'' live sand
- good protein skimmer
- one or two powerheads
- existing HOB filter without filter pad, just carbon

NOW EXCITING PART... STOCKING LIST 
- 2 ocellaris clown fish
- 1 firefish
- 1 coral beauty angelfish
- 1 bangaii cardinal fish
- 10 red leg hermit crabs
- snails??? (will they get eaten by hermits for their shells?)

so far i have a deal on a used skimmer, powerhead and test kit for 60$
30 lbs of live rock for 60$
I am planning on buying regular sand, which will become live sand by being colonized by the live rock
What kind of sand would be good??
I need to buy salt also... should I buy just enough or should i get one of those 160 gallon worth pails?
Do I need a reverse osmosis filter?? Theyre pretty expensive and I don't want to buy water from the LFS every time I need to top up the water in my tank.
Dechlorinated tap water isn't an option is it???

Oh btw, I made sure this one is actually going to go through  The whole family is up for it and it is going to go well


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## reefsahoy (Jul 16, 2010)

dylan94 said:


> I am planning on buying regular sand, which will become live sand by being colonized by the live rock
> What kind of sand would be good??
> I need to buy salt also... should I buy just enough or should i get one of those 160 gallon worth pails?
> Do I need a reverse osmosis filter?? Theyre pretty expensive and I don't want to buy water from the LFS every time I need to top up the water in my tank.
> ...


 
congrats on your decision on a SW tank. buy live sand if you can afford it or make sure you buy good clean dead sand. get sand that the grain is not silty. the reason for this is when you add a power head it won't stir the sand and the water will stay clear.

RO, I highly suggest one with dI. If you go without one make sure you use quality water for topoff and SW making. Usually newbies will save $ and go tap, it will work for awhile then for most algae will start and get out of control due to poor water quality. if you start out with know quality sand, water and live rock you will surpass most of the newbie start up errors.


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*nice*

awsome man..glad to hear you got into salt.. but it does sound like you better get your tap water checked out...all the perameters..the whole nine yards..if you cant afford an R O Unit..


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Does anyone know where I could buy an RO unit for a good price? 
Considering my tank is only 29 gallons I won't need a big 100GPD unit, just a 25 or 10GPD unit.
For dead sand to become live sand, should I buy crushed coral or some other sand... I know that there should be NO SILICA SAND to avoid algae problems.
Thanks everyone btw
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reefsahoy (Jul 16, 2010)

dylan94 said:


> Does anyone know where I could buy an RO unit for a good price?
> Considering my tank is only 29 gallons I won't need a big 100GPD unit, just a 25 or 10GPD unit.
> For dead sand to become live sand, should I buy crushed coral or some other sand... _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
you live in qubec so just google ro/di and see what pops up. for live sand if you introduce live rock bacteria. flora and fauna will eventually go to the sand. what ever gpd ro you get consider how many ours you will have to run it for water. so if you are going to change 10 gals for a 25gal/day you will have to run it almost 12 hours.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Ya that's true and the higher GPD isn't usually that much more than lower ones. I think 50GPD would be fine, but 100GPD would be optimal. I've looked for some things on sites like eBay, but they look really sketchy. Like I saw a skimmer that I had never seen before or heard of, selling from Hong Kong and it was 6$ and 6$ shipping. So 12$ for a skimmer from Hong Kong.. like I'd might as well just refer to the black market of protein skimmers lol. It's a scam no matter how you look at it 
So ya, I have to keep looking. I have a feeling that if I buy one from my LFS it will be quite expensive. So far, I haven't really seen any RO units for less than 100$.

For the sand: I am going to buy 'dead' sand and let it get colonized by the flora and fauna of the live rock. I'm going to give the tank a while to get settled anyways. But, how do I know how much sand to buy? I want a 4'' sand bed for proper nitrification conversion (probably didn't make sense but you know what I mean ) so do I buy 20lbs or 30lbs or 40lbs? Is there a way to calculate this, or do I just look at the size of the bag and estimate how much I need?

ALSO (I just dont shut up lol)
I would like my 10 gallon to be a sump. Could I just fill it with water like the other tank and then put the filter, the heater, the skimmer and maybe some sand and live rock? And then have the return pump just pump water back up?
OR
Do I have to do the whole dividing the tank with glass sheets and having different sections and whatever?

And for CUC, can I have red led hermit crabs (more docile than blue) live with snails? I want hermit crabs for sure and I know snails are really good at their job but they kinda freak me out  especially when they're like 5'' big :S I haven't really looked into starfish, but that would be cool. Sea hares gross me out to the max. I was at the LFS and they had two huge ones in an aquarium and I couldn't look at them, because it would repulse me. As for shrimp, I was going to get 2 skunk shrimp, but if I have a neon goby and skunk shrimp as they are all parasite removers I don't know if that would be bad or not. Coral banded shrimps are also amazing. So pretty much I want hermit crabs and shrimp 

Thanks


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

I just read Pasfur's article about quarantine tanks and I decided to have my 10 gallon as a quarantine tank, until my tank is fully stocked, then I can either convert it to a sump, or keep it as a Q-tank. I am going to buy all of my equipment as HOB (protein skimmer, heater, filter).
I might be bringing my freshwater fish to the LFS today, or another day.
Pictures of tank and equipment to come


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

In place of using an RO unit, can I use rainwater/melted snow that I boil to kill all parasites and living organisms. I know that rainwater is just pure water (soft). Would that be feasible?


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

dylan94 said:


> I just read Pasfur's article about quarantine tanks and I decided to have my 10 gallon as a quarantine tank, until my tank is fully stocked, then I can either convert it to a sump, or keep it as a Q-tank. I am going to buy all of my equipment as HOB (protein skimmer, heater, filter).
> I might be bringing my freshwater fish to the LFS today, or another day.
> Pictures of tank and equipment to come


Nick is going to hate me for saying this... but I think this is a great idea. Even better, spend an extra $10 on another 10 gallon tank and have both a Q tank and a sump!

If you buy a hang on skimmer, make sure it have an overflow! Most of them do not. 



dylan94 said:


> In place of using an RO unit, can I use rainwater/melted snow that I boil to kill all parasites and living organisms. I know that rainwater is just pure water (soft). Would that be feasible?


We are talking about your WATER. This is the most basic of all problems. Buy an RO unit. In the US we can often find them online for $100 or so, depending on the quality of the unit. Not sure what you will pay, but it is worth it.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Okay, I will try to buy a RO unit.

With the Q-tank, I figured when there are no fish in it I could raise brine shrimp.

I am going to start buying equipment. I am going to buy 40lbs of Key Largo base rock and 40lbs of bahamas aragonite sand from Marco Rocks and then seed it with a small pieces of cured live rock from my LFS. Cost 120$

As for skimmers I was looking at the Oceanic biocube skimmer which I'm sure everyone is going to advise me against  and also the red sea prizm hang on skimmer.

I am hoping that I can trade all of my freshwater fish and plants for a koralia powerhead.

Then all I have left is the RO unit. Which I'm trying to find a good deal on.


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## reefsahoy (Jul 16, 2010)

Pasfur said:


> Nick is going to hate me for saying this... but I think this is a great idea. Even better, spend an extra $10 on another 10 gallon tank and have both a Q tank and a sump!
> 
> If you buy a hang on skimmer, make sure it have an overflow! Most of them do not.
> .


hey I agree with the spend the extra $10 for the sump! LOL. i won't hate you! it's just an opinion and as you know there's many ways to skin a cat. I went thru alot of mistakes because i've been keeping SW tanks for like 17 years. Over that time i've probably kept over 8 tanks from FOWLR to full blown sps reef which is where i'm at now. In that time i did the "go the cheaper route", "skimp on equipment route"', "do i really need a RO route", etc. Now i've come to realize, in my humble opinion that it's best to avoid water quality problems than to react. remember i'm kinda anal about water quality because i'm keeping sps corals. SPS, then LPS, Softies, FOWLR is the order of sequence for difficulty in keeping and water quality requirements, where sps requires best water quality and FOWLR you can get away with lesser water quality. To me the best way is to avoid water quality issues before it takes hold because changes for the better in a tank is a looong, expensive, labor intense, test your will, and do i really wanna do this hobby process. hobbiest will skimp on skimmers, ro units, and then buy expensive fish and corals then fight to keep water quailty to avoid algae and such. then over the long run, they'll spend more $ for phosphate removers, water changes, tap water conditioners, salt and tons of labor in servicing their tanks because of algae after the fact. To me it's best to avoid all this if at all possible. 


If you take one opinion out of all this "go with a good oversize skimmer". Personally i did and would never go with another HOB skimmer if i can help it. They tend to inject bubbles into the display tank, you can't control the skimmer level because the tak evaporates and the water pressure changes with water level so you end up constantly adjusting the skimmer. They are not real good at taking gunk/funk out of the tank. To me a skimmer is the backbone to keeping a reef as far as filtering the water. In the time i've been keeping SW tanks i've upgraded at least 5 times or more. The skimmer i have now will allow mistakes. if i mistakenly overfeed the skimmer pulls it out before it can pollute the water. As a matter a fact when i feed the fish and corals better eat fast otherwise it will all end up in the skimmer LOL. if you get a good skimmer it will compensate some amount of mistakes you make to your tank. just my opinion.


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## reefsahoy (Jul 16, 2010)

dylan94 said:


> Okay, I will try to buy a RO unit.
> 
> 
> As for skimmers I was looking at the Oceanic biocube skimmer which I'm sure everyone is going to advise me against  and also the red sea prizm hang on skimmer.
> ...


put in an extra $20 and get the ASM MINI-G Protein Skimmer. if you get a ro try getting the di also as this helps poslih the water to zero TDS..


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Would you recommend the ASM MINI-G Protein Skimmer or the AquaC Nano Remora?
I am going to get an RO unit.
I am going to get CaribSea base rock and sand, which I will seed with live rock.


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## reefsahoy (Jul 16, 2010)

dylan94 said:


> Would you recommend the ASM MINI-G Protein Skimmer or the AquaC Nano Remora?
> I am going to get an RO unit.
> I am going to get CaribSea base rock and sand, which I will seed with live rock.


 
personally, i'd go ASM MINI-G Protein Skimmer for many reasons, it's a in sump skimmer, so you should have surface skimming, see article http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...ance-surface-skimming-salt-water-tanks-55195/, where if you have baffels in the sump the water height will stay constant and makes the skimmer a set and forget equipment, where from my experiences, because the aquac is a HOB and you will end up constantly adjusting or topping of the aquarium level to keep it skimming properly, and because it's a HOB you won't have surface skimming. The asm is rated for 75 gallons (big and over sized and in my opinion this is where bigger is better) the chamber is 4.5 wide by 20 high so you'll have long contact time, and the acuac is rated for 50 gallons max. chamber is 2.5 and is only 15 inches high whicih is less contact time. The asm is a pin wheel where the aquac i believe is a powerhead see http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/water-quality-reference/all-you-ever-wanted-know-about-55808/

ASM G = Mercedes, Lexus
Vs
AquaC = Ford Pinto, AMC Pacer

Just my opinion


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Okay and what about the coralife super skimmer?


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## reefsahoy (Jul 16, 2010)

dylan94 said:


> Okay and what about the coralife super skimmer?


 
my opinion? asm all the way! 
the problem is protein skimmers are not regulated in their claim to handle tank size. i know the asm is a good skimmer. it's not the best but it's a pretty good entry level skimmer. you won't have to upgrade for any type of reef in your size tank because it's effective enough to handle that size.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

looks like we have a winner 
ASM!!!!!
So I am going to go with the ASM, which means I have to have a sump. Which means I also need a return pump and overflow. Is it possible to have a refugium in the sump without dividing the different sections. Providing the microflora and microfauna dont get sucked into the skimmer. I wanted to include macroalgae such as caulerpa or will they spread into my main tank?

I was also revising my stocking list and I came up with:
- 2 ocellaris clownfish
- 2 bangai cardinal
- 2 firefish
- 1 coral beauty angelfish
- 3/4 blue green chromis
- 1 yellow watchman goby
- 2 neon gobies
- 1 royal gramma
- red leg hermit crabs
- astrea snails
- starfish???
- 2 skunk shrimp
- coral banded shrimp

CALM DOWN
I am not planning on shoving all of those fish into a 29 gallon tank. That is just a list of fish/inverts that I live  My stocking list would be a mix and match of several of those fish. Clownfish are a must. Hermit crabs are a must. Skunk shrimps are a must (after the tank is established). Bangaii cardinal arent a complete must, but i really like them . Royal gramma are nice, but I know they require lots of microorganisms to feed on... or is that the mandarin?


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## reefsahoy (Jul 16, 2010)

i think you'll need the dividers for a refuge otherwise the return current from the protein skimmer will constantly stir up the media causing a silt storm. you also have to consider if you really want to add light down by the sump. the reason is the skimmer will eventually grow coralline or algae all over it assuming you water parameters are in check.


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## jbonez (Dec 30, 2010)

post some pics...


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## fishesfriend (Dec 8, 2009)

The mandarin is the one that eats micro -stuff royal grammas are noraml eating foods you put in. You need to be quarintined and add the royal gramma near the end of the list. The blue green chromis will kill each other over time with the banggais make sure you get tank raised and it's a male/female pair( R.I.P. 2 cardnials(one wouldent eat))


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Alright, thanks everyone for the advice.
I am going to Quebec City this weekend, but next week I am going to bring my freshwater fish to the LFS and order all of the equipment.
I'm getting the ASM skimmer for sure.
The green chromis are definitely off the list then.

As for the sump: If my protein skimmer and other equipment are all in the sump (10 gallon). How could I quarantine them? If I put them in the 'sump', they would still be a a part of the whole system. And if I separated the tank and the sump as a quarantine tank, until all of my fish were introduced, where would I put the protein skimmer and other equipment?
Also, is it necessary to have lights on the sump? I don't really mind if there is no coralline algae in the sump, because it's a sump .
As far as lighting goes for the main tank, do I need night lights or can I just turn the lights off at night, since I don't have any corals. The lighting I have now on the 29 gallon is only about 17 watts. The lights on the 10 gallon have as high as 50 watts.


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## reefsahoy (Jul 16, 2010)

if you have no corals lights are only for displaying fish in the display tank so i would go with little lights to keep algae to a minimum. no need for lights in sump


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