# Stocking for SOFT WATER 45 gallon...



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

So, i found out today that i have soft water..not the hard water id thought.
So, this messes up my stocking choices. 
I have nine guppies..will they adapt?
I do not really want to give them back..I am very attached to them.
Plus, i have guppy fry, two that are 24 days old, and seven that were just born. And one molly fry, from when i had mollies. Shes 25 days old.

In my tank, these are the params that matter, as the tank is still cycling, so ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are still working themselves out.
PH: 6.4-8.8
GH: 71.6=4 drops
KH: 17.9=1 drop

Out of the tap [aged water] these are the params
PH: 7.4-7.6
GH: 53.7=3 drops
KH: 35.8=2 drops

My tank is a 45 gallon, [36x24x12], with a 280 watt adjustable heater, and an aqua tech 30-60 filter.

What are my choices? 
If i keep the guppies,[which i hope to do, as they show no signs of stress] and if i give the guppies back?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

My first thought was why the GH and KH would be different in the tank from the tap water, but as these are both only 1 drop different, I will assume it is just the testing. As i mentioned in your other thread on the API kit, I had difficulty seeing the colour changes at first and with such soft tap water.

The pH is likely being targeted by the water supply people to raise it, this is common in soft water areas, so that is not really a concern as the pH will naturally tend to lower in an aquarium with little or no buffering (KH). So this means you will have very soft water with (eventually) an acidic pH. And that opens up all sorts of options for a 3-foot 45g tank. But first, a word about your guppies.

This fish is native to a wide geographic area of northern South America (stretching from Venezuela on the west to northern Brazil and east to the Guyanas) and on the islands of Barbados and Trinidad. It can be found in clear mountain streams, swamps and ditches, and some sources mention coastal brackish waters though it is not certain if the fish are permanently resident in brackish water or simply migratory as is often the case with coastal freshwater fish. However, the species clearly has adaptability, a trait which has allowed it to become established in a great many countries around the world where it was originally introduced as a means of controlling mosquitoes. Stability however is crucial; fluctuating parameters are not that well tolerated.

That brings us to the parameters for the habitat waters of the guppy, and something I have not had much luck tracking down. There is data for the habitat of the closely-related Endlers Livebearer [once thought to be a variety of the common guppy, but now a distinct species] which is found only in a couple of coastal areas of Venezuela where the water is hard and basic [see out profile info]. I have so far not come across any reliable scientific source suggesting anything but medium hard water with a pH around 7 or higher for long-term health of guppies.

I would also plant the tank fairly well, and then not bother about "cycling." For one thing, all the fish suited to this water will benefit from live plants in many ways.

You could do a fairly specific biotope, say SE Asian lagoon [small gourami, rasbora, one of the dwarf species of loach], Amazonian lagoon or forest [many of the characins (tetra, pencilfish, hatchetfish) and catfish (corys, Twig Catfish, Whiptail Catfish, Bristlenose Pleco)], or a non-geographic habitat with fish from SA, SE Asia and/or Africa that require similar environment such as a stream, blackwater pool, flooded forest. Have a look at the tanks under "Aquariums" below my name on the left, as all of mine are very soft water and you will see some of these examples. And browse our profiles for some interesting and colourful fish.

Byron.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

I will look at your tanks! =]
So, im 90% sure im going to keep my guppies. Im super happy about it. Especially since i called and found out and my lps says the guppies they get are local. =]=]=]

So, what other fish could i put in there with them? 

I am planning on filling my tank with plants, as i found out the lps near my best friend [who i will be visiting more!] sells plants!!!! XD And i found a guy who is going to sell me his light fixture, as hes getting out of fish. His loss, my gain!! 
I bought two dollars worth of water sprite, or what they told me was water sprite, and put some in my 45 and some in my fry tank..The fry love it! My snails sure do love the plants, though my rosy red minnow acts as if they arent there.

BTW, Rosy red minnows, soft or hard water? Or does it matter?

I was feeling bummed i couldent have the fish i wanted, then i found out that there are so many other fish for soft water!


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

*So, Ive been looking..*

At ALL the fish profiles. Id never really paid attention to the fish that didnt live in hard water, so i realize i have ALOT of choices!
Ive made a list of fishums that I like, Its kinda long, so im putting it in the next post.

Im thinking i might want a bigger centerpiece fish/pair/harem, and two, maybe three groups of fish. Thats along with the guppies. 

One of those groups i hope will be cories!

I should be switching to sand before i get any species that prefers it. As soon as possible, actually. =]

Without further adieu, my list of fish!


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Gourami
Banded Gourami 
Blue Gourami
Honey Gourami
Paradise Fish

Cichlid
Blue Ram
Bolivian Ram
Cockatoo Dwarf 
Electric Yellow
Kribensis

Cories
Adolfo
Bandit
Black Fin
Emerald
Basically, whichever species is available..unless you guys know a specific species?

Tetras
Black Phantom 
Bleeding Heart 
Bloodfin 
Rummy Nose
Cardinal 
Ember
Flame
Lemon
Pristella
Red Phantom
Rosy
Serpea
Silvertip
Glowlight Danio

Rasbora
Dwarf Rasbora
Harlequin Rasbora
Mosquito Rasbora

Barbs
Black Ruby 
Cherry 
Golden
Rosy
Tiger
Tinfoil

Loaches
Angelicus Loach
Clown Loach
Dwarf Loach
Khuli Loach
Yoyo Loach

I dont remember what category..
Glass Catfish
Otos
Purple Dwarf Pencil Fish
American Flag Fish


So, im wondering if i could fit a single centerpiece fish, and four or five groups? and one of those groups would be the guppies. None of my guppies have large fins, just different colors. I know barbs are fin nippers, but with normal sizes fins, would they still nip? Im thinking of one or two schools being barbs..


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I can only make a general observation on your lists. All are suited to the water, but many of these fish cannot be combined due to size differences which relates to behaviours and compatibility. For example, only one species of loach in a 3-foot tank, plus some of these are too large for this tank. And only one gourami, and again not the Blue because this would seriously limit other fish. Only one cichlid, same reasoning (and the Yellow I believe is rift lake so not possible).


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, I'm really only looking for one centerpiece fish, maybe a pair, and four groups of comparable fish. 
For the centerpiece I'm thinking a Bolivian ram? And the guppies would be one group, and a group of cories would be the second. What two other species would go well? 

This is why I ask you guys!! Your so smart!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> Well, I'm really only looking for one centerpiece fish, maybe a pair, and four groups of comparable fish.
> For the centerpiece I'm thinking a Bolivian ram? And the guppies would be one group, and a group of cories would be the second. What two other species would go well?
> 
> This is why I ask you guys!! Your so smart!


Mikrogeophagus altispinosus is a nice fish as a single specimen in a 3-foot tank. Just the one.

Corys, get what you like, one or more species is fine; aim for no less than 3 of each species if multiple species, five of a species is minimum with just one species. Depends what you can get locally, but they all get along. By the way, the "Emerald" might well be Brochis splendens, a cory-like fish but larger. Not a problem, just be aware of the larger size. Will mix in with the true corys too. If this were me, with a 3-foot tank, I would aim for 9-12 corys, with 3 or 4 species. Regardless of the species, the more the better always with corys. I would not include loaches with corys, not due to aggression or anything, but it will make the bottom too crowded. There is only one of the loach species suitable anyway.

I'm still cautioning on the guppies, this is very soft water and I think far below what they will manage with over time. But regardless, another shoaling fish with them is still a good idea, something mid-tank as the guppies are upper level and the Ram and corys lower. There are suitable species from the tetra list [forget the Serpae, they will target the guppies], and rasbora. Barbs are out, except the cherry or Black Ruby. You could have pencilfish, but not with any barb. The Coral Red Pencilfish is actually nicer than the Purple, and does very well in a 3-foot tank.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Thank you so much Byron!
I actually looked into returning the guppies to the store i got them at, and they dont accept returns on fish, and petsmart said that they cant accept fish that arent theirs. So, if the guppies start failing, i will give them their own tank, and attempt to harden the water, but for now, i dont want to mess with water parameters. 

So, This is the set stocking list so far, and some of my ideas for the other slots.

Bolivian Ram [1] 76-80*
Cories [10-12] 70-77*
Guppies [9-12] 64-82*

And these are the fish for my possible two other groups of 8-10.
Cherry Barbs 74-81
Black Ruby 72-79

And the Harlequin Rasbora, if i can find it.

Then there is the tetra list:
Bleeding Heart 73-82
Rummynose 74-79
Bloodfin 64-82
Cardinal 73-81
Ember 75-82
Flame 72-82
Lemon 72-82
Rosy 75-82
Silvertip 72-84

When i go to the petstore, id like to know what my options are, so are any of the species in the list going to not work with the set stocking i have?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> Thank you so much Byron!
> I actually looked into returning the guppies to the store i got them at, and they dont accept returns on fish, and petsmart said that they cant accept fish that arent theirs. So, if the guppies start failing, i will give them their own tank, and attempt to harden the water, but for now, i dont want to mess with water parameters.
> 
> So, This is the set stocking list so far, and some of my ideas for the other slots.
> ...


No Bleeding Heart, they get too large for a 3-foot and will overpower the tank; might be nippy esp in a small (to them) space. Bloodfin no, they can be nippy (all species in the genus Aphyocharax are feisty) and the guppies in particular would be targeted but other fish like the Ram might too. Silvertip might be a bit active, and they like some current which some of the others do not, depending what you get.

Don't have any barbs with rasbora or sedate/quiet tetra (most of the tetras listed are quiet), the barb are too active. The barbs would be fine on their own (no other mid-water fish). Actually, this might be an issue with the guppies too, not sure.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks again Byron!
So I think the barb choices are out, unless I get both cherry and black ruby? Or will they still target the gups? 

I can have the rasbora and the tetra together?

Another question I have is what to add when. Since I have the guppies already, I'm figuring they should go first. Then I was thinking a group of tetra, then some cories, the other group of tetra, the Bolivian ram, then more cories.
Should I change that up?

Obviously I'll only add two or three to the big tank at a time, to not over load the bioload. But how often should I add the two or three? I don't want the first three to get stressed because there isnt a group, or the last three. 

And for the tetras, is there a specific male to female ratio needed?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> So I think the barb choices are out, unless I get both cherry and black ruby? Or will they still target the gups?


The guppy issue was activeness, they move around. It's been decades since i had guppies though so I can't remember the extent. 



> I can have the rasbora and the tetra together?


Depending upon species of tetra, yes.



> Another question I have is what to add when. Since I have the guppies already, I'm figuring they should go first. Then I was thinking a group of tetra, then some cories, the other group of tetra, the Bolivian ram, then more cories.
> Should I change that up?
> 
> Obviously I'll only add two or three to the big tank at a time, to not over load the bioload. But how often should I add the two or three? I don't want the first three to get stressed because there isnt a group, or the last three.


Add the entire group for the species at once. Example, if you are going to get say 9 rummynose tetra, add all nine together. Wait a few days, then add the next species, and so on. But if you have the tank well planted, numbers don't really matter...however, in new tanks I would still suggest this.  Are you intending to quarantine new fish once the tank is initially stocked (with the guppies)?



> And for the tetras, is there a specific male to female ratio needed?


Depends upon species in some cases, but generally a mix of equal male/female (when this can be determined) is best. The profiles will mention species that need more females to males.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Yes I am going to quarantine the new fish for two weeks. 
But with only nine fish to begin with, adding nine more fish, wouldn't that give me a mini cycle?
I'm still working on getting an adequate light, so the only plants I have are some water sprite and java moss. It's made my ammonia go down, but still not enough to add more fish. In the tank now it a rosy red minnow.

I'm doing every other day 30% w/c and my ammonia doesn't go above .25, and two hours after w/c, my ammonia is at .10.
Should I add a few of the gups? Would that help it cycle faster? Or do I just have to wait? 
Won't the plants I have make it hard to tell when the cycle starts/ends?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> Yes I am going to quarantine the new fish for two weeks.
> But with only nine fish to begin with, adding nine more fish, wouldn't that give me a mini cycle?
> I'm still working on getting an adequate light, so the only plants I have are some water sprite and java moss. It's made my ammonia go down, but still not enough to add more fish. In the tank now it a rosy red minnow.
> 
> ...


Is the Water Sprite growing well? If yes, they they should handle any ammonia. I wouldn't expect to see it above zero. Any chance ammonia is in the tap water? What water conditioner do you use?

In a Quarantine tank one has to be careful, if it is a fairly bare tank (no plants). Only one group of fish, leave them in the full period (which most recommend be 2 or preferably 3 weeks), move them into the main tank, then acquire new fish, etc. I have my QT planted, it is a 20g with excess plants from my main tanks, including floating plants, so I can stock it more, which is necessary since when i come from a fish store in Vancouver I usually have a lot of fish, 20-30, as I only make one run.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

the water sprite moved to only one spot in my tank, since i have the filter on one side, and an air stone on the other, and the current of the water pushed the sprite to right in front of the filter, which is on the other side of the tank from the light. 
it was all pushed together, and i swore it wasnt growing, so i made these weird corrals in the tank, so they wouldent be pushed around, and when i did that, i discovered that alot of the pieces of leaves were growing tiny little roots! Heres some pictures.
Iin the last whole picture tank you can see I have some java moss tied to four different rocks along the bottom. Im seeing if any grow from the bottom. I also have java moss tied to two peices of small floating driftwood on the surface. Im hoping it grows down...maybe?

My QT has a marimo ball, and a few of the water sprite. I also live right down the street, a 8 minute bike ride from one of my lps, so i can get fish whenever i want. I was planning on only doing one species at a time, nine, in case my bioload crashes from all of them, i can do four, then five. I might just make it easy and make it 5 and 5, but im aiming for nine, since there are only about a dozzen at the store, so i want to be able to turn down some if they dont look completely healthy. My params are currently at PH: 6.4, Ammonia: .05-.10, NI: 0-.10, NA: 1.0-2.0 [ not yellow, not orange] after a 20% w/c today.

Could i start adding my guppies? And should i do them three at a time? Since they dont really need a group, three at a time should be enough, right? Im just so nervous about going back into a cycle, and damaging my fish...


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Also, looking at the profiles again, Im wondering if what i saw as lemon tetra were actually pristella, There was a tank labeled pristella, but i remember seeing the white and black tips, and then the angular fins of the lemon. I know lemons were on the list of okay tetras, but what about pristellas? are the nippy? it says they are hardy, sothats a plus! Though lemons have more color, so i think ill go with which ever group looks better!


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## Jayy (Dec 23, 2009)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> Also, looking at the profiles again, Im wondering if what i saw as lemon tetra were actually pristella, There was a tank labeled pristella, but i remember seeing the white and black tips, and then the angular fins of the lemon. I know lemons were on the list of okay tetras, but what about pristellas? are the nippy? it says they are hardy, sothats a plus! Though lemons have more color, so i think ill go with which ever group looks better!


No they're two different fish. Here's the Profile Pristella Tetra, they're not nippy at all.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

"Yes" to your queston on adding the guppies, though as you have them now, i would put all of them in together.

Pristella are peaceful, though a bit more active.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks Byron! I'm going to continue to do every other day 30% w/c, though, when could I stretch it out to every third day, or fourth?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> Thanks Byron! I'm going to continue to do every other day 30% w/c, though, when could I stretch it out to every third day, or fourth?


With the floating Water Sprite plants you won't have ammonia issues. Normal water change once a week. Unless something odd occurs, which i woldn't expect.


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