# Sickly red-eyed tetra



## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

(55-gallon tank with fake plants, 4 zebra danios, 1 giant danio, 1 angelfish, 1 male swordtail, 1 female betta, 3 neon tetras, and 1 cory cat. Water parameters were all perfect with a Ph of 8.0.)

I got a young-ish red-eyed tetra from a friend. I also got a cory cat and a zebra danio at the same time. The danio and cory have adjusted well, but the tetra is hovering against the back of the tank and is not eating. He was healthy and happy in the friend's tank (as far as I know, anyway). Any thoughts as to what is wrong? I will be getting three more red-eyes from her next week, so I am not sure if he is just missing his schooling buddies or not.

Water parameters should all be good - no ammonia, no nitrite, low nitrate - although I have not checked them again this morning. I drip-acclimated all three new fish, and my high ph matched the friend's tank water almost exactly. I hesitate to put him in a hospital tank since I have tried this with other fish and it seems to stress them out even more.

A final comment - this particular fish has a very odd body shape. Instead of having an even profile from tail to top to mouth to stomach, he's kind of "lumpy" looking. He's symmetrical side-to-side, but he's just not a "show" specimen. He looks kind of squashed between his dorsal fin and stomach. I don't know if this has anything to do with his behavior or not. Unfortunately I cannot capture a photo.

Thanks!


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

Was he shaped weirdly in your friends tank as well? Fish Tuberculosis will cause skeletal deformities as well as lethargic behavior and loss of appetite. Does that match the description at all? It's not very contagious and you can treat with an antibiotic like erythromycin, though i'm not sure of the success rate on curing TB. Look it up though and see if that matches the description.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

This actually sounds like a stress issue. I would suggest watching to see if any of the other fish are harrassing or chasing this fish, and at the amount of cover in the mid to upper ranges of the tank where those fish tend to spend most of their time. How much decoration is in the tank? You could try floating a few plants at the surface, increasing the amount of territory and cover in the tank.
A simple mistake made by many fish keepers... when adding fish they forget to add more decorations according to the number of fish they are adding. Existing fish in the tank will have all of the territories claimed, thus can cause aggression between otherwise peaceful tank mates when someone new is introduced. If you always remember, new fish means new territory needed, it can making the moving of new fish much easier on all.
Hope this helps some.
(also, might want to check the temp and any difference in temp from 1 tank to the other, too)


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

I appreciate the suggestions. Both seem as though they could fit, though I am guessing it has more to do with the territory issue. I can't really add much more as far as decorating goes, though; I already have two substantial pieces of drift wood, five or six large rocks with numerous "caves," and 20 or so fake plants, most of which are 16 inches tall. Not much more will fit. The temperature between the tanks is within a degree of one another, and the water conditions are nearly identical (mine are a little better: lower nitrates).

I will look further into the tuberculosis issue, though since my friend didn't notice him not eating, I think it has something to do with the move. 

I have noticed my long-finned zebra danios picking on some of the fish; are the long-finned variety known for aggression? They nearly killed my single short-finned danio and I had to put him into another tank. I might post that question in the compatibility section.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Julie's Julies said:


> are the long-finned variety known for aggression?


It will be down to luck, Julie. Most fish can have varying behaviors.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

Julie's Julies said:


> I have noticed my long-finned zebra danios picking on some of the fish; are the long-finned variety known for aggression? They nearly killed my single short-finned danio and I had to put him into another tank. I might post that question in the compatibility section.


Danios are considered peaceful community fish but it is very common to have some that are aggressive. I've heard of short finned variaties being just as aggressive as long finned so I don't think that makes much of a difference, just depends on who the dominant fish are in the tank.


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

Well, now I am really confused...I looked up symptoms for tuberculosis, and it could just as easily fit my fish. It does not have the "pinecone" effect on its scales, though, so who knows. I will attach a photo - I got one that sort of shows the shape. Let me know your thoughts. He is also listing ever so slightly to his left. Again, I don't know the history of this fish's behavior to know if this is normal for him or some new development.


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

For some reason the picture did not attach. I will try again; if still no luck I will figure out the problem tomorrow.


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

Here we go.







This shows his hollow stomach and less-than-ideal shape.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

doesnt really look like a skeletal deformity at all though, just an underweight fish. TB won't always produce a pinecone effect though. Usually with TB you would have a bending of the spine but I don't see that there. Do you notice any problems with regulating bouyancy? You mentioned he lists to the side a bit but when he swims around, does he struggle to swim down or up or does he seem to sink or float rapidly? It sounds like an internal bacterial or parasitic infection (practically the only two options so not much help). Bacterial infections often affect the swim bladder so bouyancy problems are often a sign of that. Parasites can infect it too but it's not as common. If I had to gamble on it i'd say bacterial since your other fish are doing well and parasites spread faster than bacteria usually. You may try a series of antibiotic bath dips for the fish but i'm no doctor. If you notice any slight oddities in his appearance or behavior, please list them. Going back to TB though, does he appear to actually have spinal deformities?


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

No, his spine is beautifully straight, and he does not have much trouble with buoyancy except for the slight list. 

In all honesty, I think he was just severely under weight and when I transfered him to my tank, he succumbed to the stress because he was not healthy. I have tried playing "doctor" to my other fish, and I have found that leaving them alone seems to be the best thing. Transferring to the hospital tank stresses them out even further. 

I really doubt he's going to pull through, but we'll see. Is there any way to force feed a fish?


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

not really but raising temperature will speed up the fishes metabolism and sometimes stimulate appetite. What is your temp at now?


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

78 degrees. Will raising the temperature negatively affect the rest of my fish?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Everything you listed for fish would be fine if you raised the temp up as high as about 82 - 84 degrees, but watch the fish when you do this. Warmer water has less oxygen. If you see any of your fish gasping (rapid gill movement and/or mouth opening and closing rapidly, and gulping air from the surface) I would suggest adding an air stone until the temp is lowered again.


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

I actually already have an airstone in there in addition to my double bio-wheel filter. Both of these churn up the water pretty well. I was actually under the impression that cold water has a lower oxygen level - goldfish need extra aeration due to size and cold water - but does the oxygen level decrease again once the temperature reaches a certain level?


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

put simply, warmer water has faster moving molecules and therefore a faster release of oxygen. Plus, higher temps will raise metapolic rates and fih consume more oxygen as well. I've never heard of very low temps having a low oxygen content, not sure why it would.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Julie's Julies said:


> - goldfish need extra aeration due to size and cold water -


Goldfish need extra oxygen because they consume more oxygen than the average fish. Size and cold water are not the reason. There are many fish that grow larger than goldfish, yet don't have the oxygen consumption that goldfish do. It is a matter of physiology, and I'd have to do some research to find the exact reasons for you, as I don't remember what it is off the top of my head... but whatever the reason you were under the impression that colder water had lower oxygen content, that is not the case. The warmer the water temp, the lower the oxygen level. That doesn't work both directions with a cut off in the middle somewhere... as was already explained, it's a matter of molecules and can be explained with a chemistry lesson that I don't have the time to give right now. Maybe someone else here knows the details enough to take the time to explain that one for you. 

With your current situation, if you raise the temp, you may find that additional aeration may be needed until the temp is lowered once again.
Good Luck!


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

bettababy said:


> Size and cold water are not the reason.


Actually size and body temperature do play a large part in metabolic rate for any animal species. A higher metabolic rate will equal higher oxygen consumption. While goldfish do consume more oxygen than most fish (has to do with genetics and hormones) size and temp will cause changes in that oxygen consumption. Muscle mass and general surface area internally and externally play a very large role in resting metabolic rate. This is also part of the reason why goldfish require more oxygen...larger volume and less body fat. Body temperature does as well and since fish are cold blooded, that means their water temp affects metabolism. This is why koi can eat less (even nothing) in the winter time and then get very hungry in the summer...their metabolic rates change and that will directly affect their oxygen consumption. While there will be less disolved oxygen in warmer water, the summer time also means plant growth and more oxygen supply. When a large pond is frozen over, there won't be much oxygen available so its a good thing their metabolism slows down with temp.

The chemistry is actually very simple, when oxygen is "dissolved" in water it is basically just stuck within the bonds of water molecules. Higher water temperature will cause increased molecular activity and faster release of those trapped oxygen molecules. 

It's important to see that as temp increases, the fishes need for oxygen goes up but the dissolved oxygen levels go down. Nature has a way of dealing with this as I mentioned before, greater plant growth. As fishkeepers, we have to make sure we compensate as well in our own tanks.


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

Wow, thanks for all the explanations! I actually have not raised the tank temp yet since it is supposed to be really hot this week and we don't have any way of cooling off our tanks. 

He is taking bites at food now but he spits it all back out. I am feeding him the same brand and type of food as his former owner did, so I doubt it is that he dislikes it, but I am encouraged by this small attempt. His energy level is up just a little, too, so I will just have to wait and see.


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