# 75 Gallons of Questions



## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

As some of you may know I am setting up a 75 Gallon FOWLR with a 30 gallon sump. The Berlin X2 skimmer is on it's way and I have a nice 75 gallon picked out which is pre-drilled with a corner overflow. The store I am getting it from also has cheap 29/30 gallon tanks so I will get the tank for the sump there too. I have a couple more questions as I start to get all the build material together. 

1. How much rock/sand do I need for the display? I am planning on a 1 inch sand bed in the display tank and refugium with a 4-5 inch bed. I was thinking about getting the 40lb Key Largo rock and 40lb sand deal from Macro rock and then another 25 pound box of the key largo rock also. I would then seed the rock with 20-25 live rock from the LFS. Do I need to get Live Sand for the refugium or will the live rock seed that sand too?

2. Any suggestions of a pump for the return line of the sump? Any suggestions on powerheads?

3. Below are some stocking ideas, this is not a list but ideas. The only must have on the list is the flame angelfish. Any comments or other ideas would be appreciated. 

*Flame Angelfish (Centopyge loricula)
Midas Blenny (Ecsenius midas)
Foxface Rabbitfish (Zebrasoa flavescens)
School of Green Chromis (6?)(Chromis viridis)
Scissortail gobies (_[FONT=&quot]Ptereleotris evides)_[/FONT]
Longnose hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
Firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
Chalk bass _(_Serranus tortugarum)
Canary blenny (Meiacanthus atrodorsalis)
Royal Gramma Basslet (Gramma loreto)


Thanks for the help!8)


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## fishesfriend (Dec 8, 2009)

Use this for stocking. http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...h-compatability-creating-stocking-list-38579/

All sounds good to me but the chromises they are better in pairs.

Wait for Pasfur, Wake, and dawn, to finilize it tho. They have a plethera of info and years of experince.

----------------------------------------------------
I can't spell.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

wcn84 said:


> As some of you may know I am setting up a 75 Gallon FOWLR with a 30 gallon sump. The Berlin X2 skimmer is on it's way and I have a nice 75 gallon picked out which is pre-drilled with a corner overflow. The store I am getting it from also has cheap 29/30 gallon tanks so I will get the tank for the sump there too. I have a couple more questions as I start to get all the build material together.


I think that this is a good system to set-up.


wcn84 said:


> 1. How much rock/sand do I need for the display? I am planning on a 1 inch sand bed in the display tank and refugium with a 4-5 inch bed. I was thinking about getting the 40lb Key Largo rock and 40lb sand deal from Macro rock and then another 25 pound box of the key largo rock also. I would then seed the rock with 20-25 live rock from the LFS. Do I need to get Live Sand for the refugium or will the live rock seed that sand too?


I would be happier seeing a 4-5" sand-bed in the display, as that is where a lot of denitrification would be happening. I like the idea on the getting the 40-40 from marco, but I would probably get two of those myself...I would also throw some small Live Rock pieces in the refugium along with some cheato macro for nutrient absorbtion.


wcn84 said:


> 2. Any suggestions of a pump for the return line of the sump? Any suggestions on powerheads?


For a pump I use an Eheim Compact+ 5000 on my 150 gallon, I would suggest an Eheim Compact+ 3000 for your 75. For powerheads I would personally use the Hydor Koralia 3, and maybe a HK2 along with it on opposite ends of the tank.


wcn84 said:


> 3. Below are some stocking ideas, this is not a list but ideas. The only must have on the list is the flame angelfish. Any comments or other ideas would be appreciated.
> 
> *Flame Angelfish (Centopyge loricula)
> Midas Blenny (Ecsenius midas)
> ...


I am fine with most of this list. I have no personal experience with the Bass or Basslet. I have tried to keep Rabbitfish, but most have been too feisty for my reef. Have you read the article that fishesfriend suggested?


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

wake49 said:


> I would be happier seeing a 4-5" sand-bed in the display, as that is where a lot of denitrification would be happening. I like the idea on the getting the 40-40 from marco, but I would probably get two of those myself...I would also throw some small Live Rock pieces in the refugium along with some cheato macro for nutrient absorbtion.
> 
> For a pump I use an Eheim Compact+ 5000 on my 150 gallon, I would suggest an Eheim Compact+ 3000 for your 75. For powerheads I would personally use the Hydor Koralia 3, and maybe a HK2 along with it on opposite ends of the tank.
> 
> I am fine with most of this list. I have no personal experience with the Bass or Basslet. I have tried to keep Rabbitfish, but most have been too feisty for my reef. Have you read the article that fishesfriend suggested?


I have been thinking about the depth of the sand bed for a while now and keep finding myself jumping back and forth. I know that a deep sand bed in the main display would give me the most denitrification ability. However, I am more visually attracted to tanks with a shallow sand bed. I think that I will go with the two 40-40s from marco rock and first set up my base rock and a 1 inch bed. If at that point I feel like it will look okay I will go for a 4 inch bed in the main tank. Either way i plan on having the refugium with a 4-5 inch sand bed, a few pieces of live rock and some macro algae. 

Thanks for all the equipment suggestions, I was looking at the Hydor Koralia 3 the other day at the LFS. They also carry Eheim products so I will most likely go with that too. 

I just had a chance to look over the article that fishesfriend suggested and found it very helpful. I'll take the number of chromis down to 2. I think I should be okay with the rabbitfish but I understand I will have to keep an eye on it for a while. I'll keep researching and after I get the system up and running I will post a final stocking list in the order I intend to add the fish. 

Oh and I forgot to ask earlier. Any suggestions on lighting for this setup?


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

wcn84 said:


> I think I should be okay with the rabbitfish but I understand I will have to keep an eye on it for a while. I'll keep researching and after I get the system up and running I will post a final stocking list in the order I intend to add the fish.


I think everything in the thread is right on track, with the exception of this Rabbitfish. This fish is a very active species and an extremely fast grower. I have a Foxface in my 180 and it has grown at a ridiculous speed. Not only are they fast growers, but they are VERY active fish They have a reputation for being shy, but this is because people cram them into tanks which are to small for their needs, which eventually weakens their immunity and makes them more susceptible to disease. You would want a 6' tank for any Foxface or similar species, such as Acanthurus tangs.

In your case, if you like the yellow color of the Foxface and want a similar looking fish for the tank size, you should consider a Long Nose Butterfly. They are very durable and slow swimming grazers, which makes them more practical for a 4' tank. They do achieve a 10'' size, but this is at least 50% smaller than a Foxface, and they have a slower growth rate.

Another option would be a Yellow Coris Wrasse, aka Banana Wrasse. They stay smaller, do great in reef settings, are hardy, and give you a beautiful flash of yellow color.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

I'll take the FoxFace off the list. I got some bad advice from a book. I'm not nessisarly sold on having to have a lot of yellow. The Yellow Coris Wrasse looks like a good option. Are there any other wrasses (rather then the yellow coris if I decide I don't need the extra yellow) that may be interesting additions to this tank?


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## fishesfriend (Dec 8, 2009)

Some fairy wrasses.
these are just three but there are more and these might not be a good choose but there here.
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+1401&pcatid=1401

http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+1158&pcatid=1158

http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+1397&pcatid=1397


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I agree. The Fairy Wrasses are a beautiful group of fish. 

By the way, you do not want any Lunar Wrasses.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

I ordered 80lb of Key Largo to use as base rock and 80lbs of sand from Marco. I will ordering the Hydor Koralia 3 and Eheim Compact+ 3000 pump tonight. Saturday I plan on picking up the 75 gallon tank and the 29 gallon for the sump. 

What do you think of this stocking list in this order? I feel like I may be getting close to the max amount of fish for this tank. Also, will the Blennies get along? Is there anything I am overlooking?

Midas Blenny (Ecsenius midas)
Canary blenny (Meiacanthus atrodorsalis)
Scissortail gobies (_Ptereleotris evides)_
Longnose hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
Firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
Pair of Green Chromis (Chromis viridis)
Chalk bass _(_Serranus tortugarum)
Royal Gramma Basslet (Gramma loreto)
Longfin Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus rubriventralis)
Flame Angelfish (Centopyge loricula)


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## fishesfriend (Dec 8, 2009)

The stocking sounds good 2 me.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Looks good and I agree you are right at the limit.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

Good to hear! The protein skimmer came today. The Marco rocks and sand are on the way as are the powerheads and pump for the sump. I will be picking up the tank this weekend as well as the materials for the sump and I will start a build thread. Still on the list is a full test kit, salt mix, and the buffering mixes. Thanks for all the help so far!


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

Also still on the list - Lighting and a refractor/hydrometer


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

Got the powerheads and the sand in the mail today and all seems well. The rock should be here tomorrow. Unfortunately the skimmer that I received yesterday is broken. One of the tubes in the chamber is broken so I am returning it for a replacement. Almost time to start the build!


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

I picked up the tank for the sump this afternoon. I attached a few pictures of everything I got so far. I also got news from the company that sold me the skimmer and they are sending me a replacement for the broken part. I will probably start the sump build this weekend and pick up the display tank too.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Is that a Berlin Skimmer? I have the Classic model of that, and think it does a good job (I think I need a bigger pump for it, but I still get skimmate...) 

Is that the Venturi or Turbo model?


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

Its the Venturi model. Here is the link below.

http://www.marineandreef.com/Berlin_X2_Venturi_Skimmer_with_Pump_Red_Sea_p/rrs50050.htm

Any suggestions on lighting fixtures? It will be a 75 gallon with a 29 gallon sump (with the skimmer and a refugium) and FOWLR.

Stocking list is below.

Midas Blenny (Ecsenius midas)
Canary blenny (Meiacanthus atrodorsalis)
Scissortail gobies (Ptereleotris evides)
Longnose hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
Firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
Pair of Green Chromis (Chromis viridis)
Chalk bass (Serranus tortugarum)
Royal Gramma Basslet (Gramma loreto)
Longfin Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus rubriventralis)
Flame Angelfish (Centopyge loricula)


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Any coral?


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

No plans for any in the next few years. If i decide to do coral I think I will most likely start a second tank for them. I want to keep this one to only the fish and LR.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Then I suggest any Power Compact that would fit the dimensions of your tank. A single 50/50 (Actinic/Daytime) fixture would be perfect. Maybe the Coralife Aqualight, or something of its type. There are a lot of nice PC fixtures with moonlights and timers and all the bells and whistles. I would probably try the AquaticLife PC if I were going your route. I am impressed with this company's product's so far.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

I like the AquaticLife PC and the built in timers and only one cord needed but no one has then in stock! Well I am a couple weeks off of needing the lights anyway but I hope someone gets them in before I need them.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

wcn84 said:


> I like the AquaticLife PC and the built in timers and only one cord needed but no one has then in stock! Well I am a couple weeks off of needing the lights anyway but I hope someone gets them in before I need them.


I'll keep an eye out and post a link (and send a PM) if I see someone with them in stock.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

Thanks Wake. I definately want to go with the AquaticLife PC if anyone has then available in the next few weeks. Otherwise, I will probably go with the below items to get as close to that setup as I can. I definitely want the lunar LEDs and the timing system seems like it can do the same as the built in one from the PC.

http://www.marineandreef.com/Lunar_Aqualight_48_inch_Coralife_p/res53406.htm
http://www.marineandreef.com/Coralife_Aqualight_Clear_Mounting_Legs_p/res53099.htm
http://www.marineandreef.com/Coralife_Aqualight_Power_Center_Timer_p/res01691.htm


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

I found the AquaticLife CF fixture at www.thatfishplace.com at only a little bit more then the other sites. I ordered that and some salt mix. I think I have an SUV to pick up the tank this weekend. Then I just have to finish the sump and the full build will begin.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

I have a question about what size PVC pipe i should be getting for my overflow and return for the sump. For those just jumping into the thread now will be a 75 gallon display with corner overflow with a 29 gallon sump. I will be running an Ehiem compact +3000 pump for a return. What size pipe should i use?


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I use 1" for overflow and 3/4" for return. And I am glad you found the lights you like! Let me know how they are.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

Okay I am having some second thoughts on stocking. I think that a butterfly fish may be desirable (esp. to my girlfriend) then a fairy wrasse. My question is could a add a butterfly fish to the below list? 

Midas Blenny (Ecsenius midas)
Canary blenny (Meiacanthus atrodorsalis)
Longnose hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
Firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
Pair of Green Chromis (Chromis viridis)
Royal Gramma Basslet (Gramma loreto)
Flame Angelfish (Centropyge loricula)
Yet to be determined butterfly fish

Would this balance be okay or should have have some more fishes that say close to the rocks. I don't want to put too many fishes that need a lot of swimming room because I know it could possibly lead to aggression issues.

Also, does anyone have any CUC ideas for this tank?


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

The rest of the list looks fine to me. I do not know about the butterfly as I can't keep them (not reef safe, as far as I remember...). I will ask the resident butterfly expert.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

wcn84 said:


> Okay I am having some second thoughts on stocking. I think that a butterfly fish may be desirable (esp. to my girlfriend) then a fairy wrasse. My question is could a add a butterfly fish to the below list?
> 
> Midas Blenny (Ecsenius midas)
> Canary blenny (Meiacanthus atrodorsalis)
> ...


Ahhhhh man.... you are stressing me out. {sigh} I don't know which way to go with this answer, so just let me talk out loud and you make what you want of it. I think you are thinking backwards on the open swimming space. I am more worried that you have to many rock dwellers to only have 80 pounds of rock. I'm curious to get a visual of this tank with rock in it before I am comfortable with the stocking list.

The Midas and Canary Blenny will both spend most of their time near the rock. The Longnose Hawk will park on top of the rock. The Royal Gramma is a true rock dweller. The Firefish and Chromis are open water, as is the Flame Angel. I think you have a good balance.

I am concerned about the Flame Angel and a Butterfly in the same tank. They have the same behavior patterns towards food selection and grazing habbits, although the Flame Angel is much more territorial towards other fish. A Kleins Butterfly might be an option, or perhaps a Longnose as I mentioned early in this thread, but I would feel much better if you removed the Flame Angel. In fact, a PAIR of Kleins would be a treat for your tank.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

Sorry for the stress Pasfur! The more I was reading the more I was second guessing even bringing the butterfly fish up. I was worried that the flame angel and a butterfly fish would not be compatible. I think that I'll just go back to planning for the fairy wrasse to hopefully avoid any problems. I will be adding 20lbs of live rock on top of the 80 from Marco and will add more if necessary. I'll post a pic after I get the tank running and the original rock in and see what everyone thinks. 

Back to this stocking list (hopefully causing less heartburn):

Midas Blenny (Ecsenius midas)
Canary blenny (Meiacanthus atrodorsalis)
Longnose hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
Firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
Pair of Green Chromis (Chromis viridis)
Royal Gramma Basslet (Gramma loreto)
Longfin Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus rubriventralis)
Flame Angelfish (Centropyge loricula)

If this looks good I will promise to have no more second thoughts lol. If i need less open water i could always cut the Chromis or Firefish. Will the similar colors of the longfin fairy wrasse and flame angel be a problem? 

Any ideas on a CUC?


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

I hooked everything up and filled the tank with freshwater for a test drive. Upon turning the the return pump on in the sump the overflow pipe is sucking a lot of air. I am running a 1 inch drain pipe and a 3/4 inch return. I tried a bunch of stuff to get the drain to stop sucking so much air, including trying to fit a 3/4 inch fitting on the end of the train pipe and changing water levels. Does anyone have an idea to get it to stop? I was thinking of adding a ball valve in the drain pipe so I can adjust the flow but I don't want to waste the time if it doesn't work. Thanks in advance.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

wouldnt do a ball valve. look up durso stand pipe.


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## wcn84 (Nov 7, 2009)

The drain pipe has a durso like tube on the top of it already and I think as long as the flow isn't too fast it functions properly. It seemed to be okay at the top when I fitted the bottom with a 3/4 inch elbow. The bottom of the drain pipe where is empties into the sump sounds like a garden hose on full blast. I found a possible solutiion on the next last night after I posted which evolves an elbow at the bottom of the drain pipe and a T-fitting off of the elbow. The idea is to have one part of the T out of the water and the other under the water. The idea is the durso can suck as much air as it wants at the top and it leaves from the top of the T rather then into the water. This hopefully will reduce noise and the amount of bubbles entering the sump. If this works I'll post a picture to share the idea for anyone having a similar problem.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I had the problem of having to make a couple mods to my drains to get the slurping to stop. I fitted a four-way Tee at the outlet and fit a cap on the top of the Tee. I then had to drill a hole in the cap and add a 5/16" hose to act as a durso. That wasn't enough, so I drilled the durso standpipes that were installed in the overflows. They were stock, maybe 3/16" of an inch, and I opened them up to 5/16" each and then the slurping stopped. You might just need a bigger diameter standpipe.


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