# Changing substrate in an existing tank



## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

I have decided to change the substrate in one of my tanks. I don't yet know how I am going to go about it. The tank has tons of plants which need to be downsized again anyway so... Now is as good of a time as any, right? 

Have any of you changed substrate in an exsisting tank while the fish were in it? I am thinking I am nuts for even thinking about it and will likely need the better part of a day to do it but... I am ready for the challange. I am going from red (natural) to black eco. I am also thinking of changing the plant lay out but have no actual plan for that yet either. I have some very large swords in there and a lot of other plants. Any suggestions? 

I am not intending to move the fish out, I intend to do this slow and carefully. Scoop and remove the current substrate a scoop at a time and then add the new. Do you think it is possible? I will keep the current filter and re-add the plants so an to not need to recycle the tank. So anyway, I am looking for tips or suggestions from anyone who has done this in the past.

I tend to get sick of looking at the same thing so I do putz with my tanks a lot. I add and remove plants and wood. My thought are, that in nature, the environment changes. Fish should not be stuck in the same old, same old for their whole lives. Again, any tips or suggestions will be appreciated.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

I think I would move the fish into a 5g pail, then transfer them back when the work was done.


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

Inga said:


> I have decided to change the substrate in one of my tanks. I don't yet know how I am going to go about it. The tank has tons of plants which need to be downsized again anyway so... Now is as good of a time as any, right?
> 
> Have any of you changed substrate in an exsisting tank while the fish were in it? I am thinking I am nuts for even thinking about it and will likely need the better part of a day to do it but... I am ready for the challange. I am going from red (natural) to black eco. I am also thinking of changing the plant lay out but have no actual plan for that yet either. I have some very large swords in there and a lot of other plants. Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I am not sure what kinda substrate you have now (red eco)? If you do then I would suggest using a siphon. Take the big cup off the end of the siphon and just use the tube put it straight in the substrate. It comes right out and is the easiest way I know know how to do it. If the gravel is to big it might work well but I know it will work like with eco complete. I did that with some of mine when I had some fungus on it. 

I would also go ahead and take out the plants first before siphoning out the substrate as you said you are going to re do the layout anyways. Then it will be easier to do any trimming if needed. The plants will be fine in a bucket of water while you are removing the substrate 

As for adding new substrate well I don't know how you would do that with water and fish in the tank. If it was me I would put the fish in a bucket just long enough to remove most of the water and then add the new substrate. Then I would add the plants back in the new layout fill with water then the fish. 

If removing the fish isn't a option then well ummm I am not sure on how to add new substrate? Hopefully someone else will add their 2 cents. Hope this helps some and Best of luck!!


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

I suppose it is possible to move the fish out into a rubbermade with the sponge filter (an advantage of the sponge filter) but in my head this doesn't seem it will be that hard. I am sure it will be more work then I am thinking it will. Like I said, I will likely wait until I have the bulk of the day to dedicate to the project. I would rather take it slow and easy then to stress myself and my fish out. 

Boredom, yes I have the red Eco-Complete. It does have some larger natural stones in there but I should be able to suck the bulk of them out with the siphon, that is a great idea. I have a strainer that I use only for the fishtank. I could just have it over the drain in the tub and let the sucking begin. As far as how I intended to add the new Eco, I just thought I would dump it in slowly a small bowl at a time. Eco doesn't need to be rinsed first like other gravels and it isn't nearly as dusty as other substrates. The water isn't as messy after adding it. At least it wasn't with the red..


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

The siphon works great at sucking out eco-complete, does it fast also. LoL. As long as the stones are not bigger then the size of pea gravel it should still work. I have found out that pea gravel just gets stuck in the line sometimes at the beginning of the tube and sometimes half way down (which is a pain in the butt to get out LoL).


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## k19smith (Aug 19, 2011)

I changed from gravel to sand with my fish in the tank, they probably didn't love it but no one died. If your fish get stressed easy I would move them other wise I just work around them.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

k19smith said:


> I changed from gravel to sand with my fish in the tank, they probably didn't love it but no one died. If your fish get stressed easy I would move them other wise I just work around them.


 
Yeah, I was thinking my fish would likely be fine as I would work on one half the tank at a time. That way they could simply move to one side or the other to avoid me. They are pretty used to me tinkering around in the tank and never seem overly stressed. Usually they swim calmly right around me in the tank. 

Sand had to be rather hard to add with the fish in the tank though, wasn't it? I was thinking if I had the water down to about 1/4 of the normal tank water, they would have enough room and I could lower the bag or a bowl full of the new substrate in at a time without stirring things up to much. I am prepared for a nasty stink as I empty the old substate out. 

I know I am nuts but over a year worth of fish poo in the substrate will likely gag me. This is another great reason for replacing the substrate. It will be all fresh and clean again. I LOVE that idea. ha ha

Boredom, I know what you mean about the siphon getting cloged and what a pain in the butt it is to get it cleared out again. I have gotten stuff stuck in there. Plant stuff and it is soft enought to make it hard to move it through but solid enough to clog up. Ugh!


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## k19smith (Aug 19, 2011)

I turned all filters off when I added the sand, it was a little cloudy but the fish didn't seem to care. I did only work on half the tank at a time but I found I had to take out all old substrate before adding any new because other wise the just mixed together no matter how careful I was. I left the filters off maybe 1-2 hrs kicked them back on and everything was fine.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

k19smith said:


> I turned all filters off when I added the sand, it was a little cloudy but the fish didn't seem to care. I did only work on half the tank at a time but I found I had to take out all old substrate before adding any new because other wise the just mixed together no matter how careful I was. I left the filters off maybe 1-2 hrs kicked them back on and everything was fine.


 
Yeah, I hadn't decided for sure on the filter thing. I only have a sponge filter in there at this time and I intended to drain the water down below the level that the sponge would do any good anyway so I would likely just remove it. I want to do it with the least amount of comotion as there are a bunch of Assassins in there I want to save and I don't want to accidentally scoop anyone I want to save. 

I would rather spend the better part of the day doing this slow and easy then to rush and make a huge mess. I know it won't go off as easily as I am hoping but... If I think it out ahead of time, hopefully it won't be that bad.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Set aside a day, and begin early (shortly after tank lights come on) so the fish can be back (if removed) and in either case have time to settle before darkness.

I have done both, but much prefer removing the fish to a spare tank, pail, whatever. The filter can be placed in the tank/pail and left running, with some floating plants on top to calm the fish. Heater won't be needed if this is summer and/or the room is heated. Fish will be better that if left in the tank, depending upon the scope of this, and it means you have an empty tank to aquascape without fear of fish getting caught or trapped. I do not like arranging wood/rock and plants with fish in the way.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Byron said:


> it means you have an empty tank to aquascape without fear of fish getting caught or trapped. I do not like arranging wood/rock and plants with fish in the way.


True. Most of the fish wouldn't really be an issue with this but I would worry about the cories. They tend to flit around under my hands whenever I am moving things about. I just didn't want to stress them by removing them either. I guess I will play it by ear. It won't be happening until I have the better part of a day to dedicate to this. Maybe sometime after the holiday weekend. I would really like to get rid of the ugly plastic log my Rainbow shark lives in but, he really is attached to the log. 


















I guess as far as crappy plastic stuff goes, it at least sort of blends. I plant plants right up close to it so not that much of it shows. I want my fish to be happy and that seems to be a favorite by Rainbow so... I will regretably be adding it back into the tank. I am unfortunately also very very limited in what kinds of plants are available locally so... I can't make as many changes as I would like. 

Any suggestions for a super duper easy plant that gets very very tall for a background? Not easily uprooted?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Vallisneria. Once rooted, it will stay put. At first, as the roots will likely be minimal, perhaps a bit of rock at the base.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Byron said:


> Vallisneria. Once rooted, it will stay put. At first, as the roots will likely be minimal, perhaps a bit of rock at the base.


 
Does Vallisneria get real nice and thick? Does it spread out on it's own or does it sort of stay put?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Inga said:


> Does Vallisneria get real nice and thick? Does it spread out on it's own or does it sort of stay put?


It is like a sword plant. The leaves keep growing up from the crown. It sends out runners like pygmy chain sword once established; they can be left to form a spreading stand, or cut off.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Byron is the grassy stuff in my tank Hygrophila Augustifolia?









I have to say that since I changed the substrate the Rainbow shark is out and about a lot more and really pops against the dark eco. The cories are happy as can be bouncing all over the place. 

Different question but I have about 15 cories in there. They are peppered Cories and the Albino variety. I got them at the same time but some grew 3 times the size they were and some stayed small. Is there a huge difference in the size between male and female or are some just runts? I thought I wanted bigger ones but I really do love watching the smallest ones. Wish I could get dwarf albinos.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I can't see the plants clear enough to answer on the Hygrophila, but I don't think I see any of this plant.

Some fish grow, some grow less, some grow faster--who knows. Female corys will be rounder when viewed from above, noticeably so. They do tend to be a bit larger too, but that in itself is not indicative.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Oh sorry, here is a better shot of the plant. I like this one but I am not sure what it is or how large I can expect it to grow. I have only had it a few months so far. 









I like the grassy appearance but not a huge fan of hairgrass because it is more coarse and doesn't move as nice as this does. They have not had any more in the store since I got this as I look often in hopes of getting more. If you know what it is, Can it be split into smaller sections that will then fill out?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm not sure what that is. Could be Echinodorus uruguayensis. What sort of rootstock?


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Oh my goodness, I temperarily stumped the master. ha ha It looks like a bunch of smaller bunches all in one. Maybe 3 hairs per little bulb? Also fairly long roots.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

It has a bulb?

No offense Inga, but the photo is not very clear. The leaves could be the Echinodorus I mentioned, or a crypt, or an aponogeton, or one of the "onion" species. And probably several others too.:hmm:


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

I just posted another likely as you were responding. Hopefully it helps. Bulb might not be the right word but yes, it has sort of a bulby spot right where the stem meets the roots. Oh an no offense taken, it was cropped and blown up from a different shot so it really isn't the best.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

posted another likely where?

Anyway, is it anything like these below?


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

No but those are lovely! Here is another picture. I have no idea what happened with the last one. 









I likely blinded the poor Cory hiding there as I used a flash so you could see the stems better. ha ha










Oh and it is about 14-16 inches tall. Probably 20 iches if I straightened out the leaves.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Echinodorus angustifolius I think. I was close with my fist suggestion (E. uruguayensis), just had to narrow it down a bit. Your initial "Hygrophila augustifolia" was probably a mixup of Echinodorus angustifolius. Photo below.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

That could be it. Hard to say for sure. In your photo the leaves seem narrower and maybe slightly rounder. I know that water parameters can make a difference in the way the plant grows. Wisteria is very narrow and sparce in my tank where as in a friends tank it is thick and lush. I would like very much to get more. Maybe mine will fill out enough that I can break apart the plant a bit and space it out?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Inga said:


> That could be it. Hard to say for sure. In your photo the leaves seem narrower and maybe slightly rounder. I know that water parameters can make a difference in the way the plant grows. Wisteria is very narrow and sparce in my tank where as in a friends tank it is thick and lush. I would like very much to get more. Maybe mine will fill out enough that I can break apart the plant a bit and space it out?


If you Google this species, you will find photos almost as different as night and day. Echinodorus will grow quite differently in different tanks; even in mine I have the same species including daughter plants from the same parent that grow differently. AQssuming I am right that this is an Echinodorus--and the leaf structure and crown once I saw it is what I base that on--this is the only species with leaves like yours.

You could separate the root "clumps" if you want. If they don't come apart easily, don't force them. But often I can get 4 or 5 plants from one "plant" when I buy it. You mentioned long roots previously, so that usually lets you separate.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Byron said:


> If you Google this species, you will find photos almost as different as night and day. Echinodorus will grow quite differently in different tanks; even in mine I have the same species including daughter plants from the same parent that grow differently. AQssuming I am right that this is an Echinodorus--and the leaf structure and crown once I saw it is what I base that on--this is the only species with leaves like yours.
> 
> You could separate the root "clumps" if you want. If they don't come apart easily, don't force them. But often I can get 4 or 5 plants from one "plant" when I buy it. You mentioned long roots previously, so that usually lets you separate.


 
That is a very good to know fact. Long roots means that I can separate. On a side note, as you know I did the big substate change last night. All new Eco-Complete, washed the tank out entirely but put the same filter in and the same plants and decor. Today, my aquarium is stinky. It wasn't before cleaining it out. ( stink is not good for a clean freak) Do you suppose that it is possible that the plants smell bad? Not Earthy smell, gassy stinky smell. Thoughts?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Inga said:


> That is a very good to know fact. Long roots means that I can separate. On a side note, as you know I did the big substate change last night. All new Eco-Complete, washed the tank out entirely but put the same filter in and the same plants and decor. Today, my aquarium is stinky. It wasn't before cleaining it out. ( stink is not good for a clean freak) Do you suppose that it is possible that the plants smell bad? Not Earthy smell, gassy stinky smell. Thoughts?


Not sure, never had this. I would expect the substrate if stirred up. As you replaced it, shouldn't be an issue. Keep an eye on the fish.


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