# Need help with new 10 gallon tank, cloudy water, fish dying



## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Ive had my tank setup for almost 3 weeks now. Although not recommended, I bought 7 fish the first 2 days of having the tank (2 neon tetras, 4 danios, and 1 cory cat). Around 1 week later I added some neon danios, 1 orange platy, 1 marble platy, and 3 live plants. When I initially filled the tank with water i used about 6 gallons of tap water, and 4 gallons purified drinking water; all treated with PRIME. Now, about 1.5 weeks ago I noticed that the water surface has become very cloudy, almost looks like when you spill gas into water, but its a light creamy color. The original 6 fish I bought are all alive and seem fine but the others started dying 1 by 1. They started swimming irradically and then just died. I dont know if the cloudy surface water has anything to do with it or what it could be. The water is otherwise clear asides from the surface. I took a picture with my iphone hopefully u can make it out. Also when i had the water checked the readings were a little high but nothing extreme. Please advise!
P.S. i remember i was cooking with the george foreman grill near the fish tank (its on the kitchen counter top) and noticed the steam was going over the fish tank, could this be related?


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## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

the oily stuff on top happend to me also, i just pointed a powerhead towards the top, and did a water change 1 a week. make sure you do water changes. also do you have any water test kits? if so what kind and what does it say? as far as the dieing fish, dont start adding chemicals until you know what you need, usualy chemicals just hurt rather than help if not used properly.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Oliver82 said:


> Ive had my tank setup for almost 3 weeks now. Although not recommended, I bought 7 fish the first 2 days of having the tank (2 neon tetras, 4 danios, and 1 cory cat). Around 1 week later I added some neon danios, 1 orange platy, 1 marble platy, and 3 live plants. When I initially filled the tank with water i used about 6 gallons of tap water, and 4 gallons purified drinking water; all treated with PRIME. Now, about 1.5 weeks ago I noticed that the water surface has become very cloudy, almost looks like when you spill gas into water, but its a light creamy color. The original 6 fish I bought are all alive and seem fine but the others started dying 1 by 1. They started swimming irradically and then just died. I dont know if the cloudy surface water has anything to do with it or what it could be. The water is otherwise clear asides from the surface. I took a picture with my iphone hopefully u can make it out. Also when i had the water checked the readings were a little high but nothing extreme. Please advise!
> P.S. i remember i was cooking with the george foreman grill near the fish tank (its on the kitchen counter top) and noticed the steam was going over the fish tank, could this be related?


 
Welcome to TFK Oliver!!

Before we start jumping to conclusions about what's ailing your tank, although it sounds to me like your going through a cycle, lets get some more informaiton from you:

Do you have a filter on your tank? If so what kind??
--- no filter could be the reason for the "milky" surface. The oily stuff appears when there is no oxygen being exchanged at the surface of the tank. I have it in my planted tank, and many others do, so I wouldn't be too alarmed. If you working wiht a planted tank, you'll want to limit the amount of oxygen exchange anyways. 

When you say you checked the readings and they were 'a little high, but nothing extreme'....could you post the exact readings? 
--- Specific numbers will help us to figure out your problem. "Nothing extereme" to you might mean one thing, but to an experienced aquarists, your idea of "nothing extreme" could be deadly to your fish and you might just not be aware of it.

Your selection of starter fished have pros and cons....
PROS - Danios are great fish to cycle an aquarium with....they're very hardy fish and can tolerate a wide range of water parameters. All these fish can be in the same tank, so re-homing them won't be an issue. 
CONS - Neons and Corries need to be in groups (shoals) of 6 or more. They are a shoaling fish and feel most comfortable when in groups. Less stress = less likely for disease and death.......You'll want to up the numbers of those fish to five a piece, which is then pushing the capacity of a ten gallon tank....

LIGHTING--
What kind of lighting have you chosen for your tank?? Plants need special lighting, although many plants will flourish in a low-light set-up with bulbs you can buy cheap at walmart.

I would stop buying "purified water" it'll just end up costing your lots of money in the end. Tap water will be just fine, as long as you stick with PRIME(great choice by the way). Could you also post water parameters of your tap water??

Make sure you're using liquid test kits, not the strips....strips can be inaccurate and give off false readings. 

Take a read through this to help you understand the cycle:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

Hope all that helped you!

and again welcome!


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Lots of good information here! I will go to petsuper market today and pick up a liquid test kit so I can share the results with you. The filter I have is a tetra pf10, came with the tank. I dont have flourescent lighting either. Whats best for live plants? I leave the light on from morning till about mid afternoon. Also, do I have to wait a few hours after adding prime to tap water or is the safe to immediately add to tank?
Thanks a lot!


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Okay so I just got back from pet supermarket. I bought a pH test kit with adjuster since its in my budget at the moment. From the readings and chart comparison, it looks like the pH is around 7.6 (its a medium-light blue color). I added 2 drops/ gallon and took another reading and it looked the same. So I added another 20 drops and it still looks about the same. Do I keep adding it until it looks greenish like 7.0 or should I wait 24 hours? I was also recommended to buy an air bubbler so got the whisper with a 6 inch bubbler i put in the corner of the tank. Seems like that took care of the cloudiness at the surface however I may get a 3 inch bubbler since this one stirs up the tank to much in my opinion.


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

JohnnyD44- what do you recommend as a inexpensive lighting source for live plants?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend using pH adjusting chemicals. The fish you have now should adjust just fine to a pH of 7.6 so I wouldn't worry about that.

What were you grilling? Anything greasy? Steam from cooking greasy foods can carry grease with it so it may have gotten in your tank, which would also account for the surface scum. Maybe you could try skimming that off with a drinking glass, or something?


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Nothing greasy, just plain chicken breast with seasoning. I'll try to scoop it out with a glass. I'm thinking of upgrading from the tetra pf10 filter to the penguin 100 or 150 as well
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

+1 in my book on the Penguin 100 or 150. I have always had marineland products and they're are fantastic.


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Good to know thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Oliver,

did you see batman's advice on the pH adjusters??? you may not need/want those chemicals in your tank.....


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Yeah I read that but dont really understand since thats what their made for?


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## Tomsk (Mar 4, 2010)

Your fish can adjust to the PH of your tank and the Ph will stay a stable level with every water change if you use the same source of water,if you use the PH aduster you have to keep adding it with each water change until its reaches the level your are happy with,during which the fish have to keep adjusting to the fluctuations in the PH levels while you do this.Also its best not too add chemicals into your tank unless neccesary.
It would be better to save the money from buying that and get yourself a light for the tank and a liquid testing kit that will test the Ammonia,Nitrate & Nitrite levels in yout tank water

Welcome to the forum! good luck with your new tank.

Tomsk


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## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

+1 on what tom said. also, the bubbler isnt great for plants, it wont harm them that much but i would recomend getting the penguin filter and just tossing the bubbler. also before you buy lights please tell us what type of plants you have or plan to get so we can help you make the best choice of lighting. 
P.S. dont always listen to the ppl at those places, a lot of times they just have info from a little sheet of paper that they memorized.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> I bought a pH test kit with adjuster since its in my budget at the moment. From the readings and chart comparison, it looks like the pH is around 7.6 (its a medium-light blue color). I added 2 drops/ gallon and took another reading and it looked the same. So I added another 20 drops and it still looks about the same. Do I keep adding it until it looks greenish like 7.0 or should I wait 24 hours?


This is not advisable and may cause considerable stress and even death to the fish. While these chemicals are intended to lower (or raise, depending) the pH, this does not usually work long-term, as I'll try to explain.

The water pH is determined by several factors, one of which is the carbonate hardness (KH) that works to buffer pH changes. The pH adjuster chemicals may lower the pH when used, but the natural KH of the water will return it to where it was within 12 hours. This constant fluctuating pH is far more stressful on all fish than a stable pH that may be outside their preference. There are natural and safe ways to lower pH *if* this is actually necessary. Please do not put any more of this stuff in the aquarium.

You could test your source water (tap water presumably) for hardness, both the general (GH) and carbonate (KH) hardness. Fish stores will usually do this, or you might contact your water board. Make sure you get the actual numbers (degrees or ppm), not general indications like "slightly hard" which is almost meaningless for our purposes. Once we know the GH and KH, and the current pH, we can suggest what is likely to occur or how to adjust the pH if that is deemed necessary.

Byron.


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Byron said:


> This is not advisable and may cause considerable stress and even death to the fish. While these chemicals are intended to lower (or raise, depending) the pH, this does not usually work long-term, as I'll try to explain.
> 
> The water pH is determined by several factors, one of which is the carbonate hardness (KH) that works to buffer pH changes. The pH adjuster chemicals may lower the pH when used, but the natural KH of the water will return it to where it was within 12 hours. This constant fluctuating pH is far more stressful on all fish than a stable pH that may be outside their preference. There are natural and safe ways to lower pH *if* this is actually necessary. Please do not put any more of this stuff in the aquarium.
> 
> ...


Is there a decent test kit that pet supermarket or petco sells that I can purchase? I upgraded to a penguin 100 and although slightly noisy, the cloudiness of the water seems to have vanished. I've also read that drift wood can help lower the pH as well as look great so I'm going to get 2 pieces. 
Will keep updated and thanks for the good info!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

I second byron, I found out the hard way, I bought a bottom of API PH down and it will work for a little while... but by the 24 hour mark my PH is back where it started in fact 2 fish that had not been doing so well died I can only assume the ph flux added to their untimely deaths. I got driftwood too, not to lower ph but it did anyways, that lasted about 2 - 3 days now its back to tap level. After this experience I am just going to leave it the way it is until I can invest in the more expensive options... I suggest you just live with what you have and get fish that live in the PH you have. Btw my PH is 8 so 7.6 doesn't seem half bad to me


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Oliver82 said:


> Is there a decent test kit that pet supermarket or petco sells that I can purchase? I upgraded to a penguin 100 and although slightly noisy, the cloudiness of the water seems to have vanished. I've also read that drift wood can help lower the pH as well as look great so I'm going to get 2 pieces.
> Will keep updated and thanks for the good info!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In my opinion, and many others you should pick up the API Master Liquid Test Kit.

make sure to buy the liquid test kit, don't buy the strips, they are un-reliable and can put off flase readings


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I use the API kits, they are recommended by many. The Sera kit is also good, more expensive. B.


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Okay I got the API master kit and here are the results:
Ph 7.6
Ammonia 0-.25ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Nitrate 40-80ppm
the tank has been setup now for about 1 month, I'm concerned with some of the higher readings. Also noticed some light brown algae growing on the glass, some plants and some gravel
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Oliver82 said:


> Okay I got the API master kit and here are the results:
> Ph 7.6
> Ammonia 0-.25ppm
> Nitrite .25 ppm
> ...


Two comments from these numbers:

When using the nitrate test kit, the instructions say to shake regent #2 for 30 seconds before adding the drops to the tube. In fact, it has to be shaken for 2+ minutes to obtain an accurate result. If you do this you may get a different (lower and more accurate) result.

Have you tested the plain tap water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? These numbers of your tap water may tell us something before commenting further.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Also, have you tried testing the pH with the high range pH test? The regular pH test maxes out at 7.6 so with that reading you should use the high-range test to see if it's actually greater than 7.6.


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

on the high range pH it seems to be at 7.4
nitrite looks in between 0ppm and .25ppm but closer to 0
nitrate is what is high and is either at 40ppm or 80 (the colors look the same on the chart)
I have not tested the tap water. If i decide to add 1 or 2 gallons of bottled drinking water, do i still need to add prime?
thanks again


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Nitrate is controlled by regular (weekly) partial water changes, or having live plants. While not a serious issue at your numbers, it is still higher than it should be.

Have you tested the tap water for nitrate? This is a real possibility. Before wasting money on bottled water, let's find the source. A conditioner like Prime will handle nitrate in the tap water.

Byron.


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Have not yet tested the tap water, will do so tonight. 
When doing partial water changes do you vacuum from the gravel? I've also used prime since day 1
_Posted via Mobile Device_
edit- I have live plants


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## Oliver82 (May 18, 2010)

Okay so here are my tap water resutls:
Ammonia- 1.0ppm
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-0
How do I lower ammonia??


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, you can't, really. If you're using something like Prime, it will detoxify the ammonia in your tap water (for up to 24 hours) but your beneficial bacteria should be able to process that ammonia into nitrate before those 24 hours are up. Ammonia in your tap water can be really frustrating when doing a fish-in cycle, but on a well-established tank (especially a planted one) it's not much of an issue.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I concur with iamntbatman on the ammonia.

To your earlier question on vacuuming the gravel, normally yes, but in planted tanks the detrius in the gravel gets broken down by bacteria into nutrients for the plants, so most of us with planted tanks do little or no gravel cleaning. If you look at the photos of my tanks, you will see open gravel areas along the front, these I run the vacuum over only because the corys feed from these areas and I like to keep them clean. The other areas where there are plants never see the vacuum.

I'm still puzzled by your "high" nitrate number; in a planted tank this is rare. I would do some 50% water changes (using Prime) maybe twice a day apart, vacuuming the open gravel areas well this time, and see if the nitrate drops. Remember to shake the regent #2 for 2 minutes minimum before adding the drops, otherwise you will likely get a higher than accurate reading. Check the nitrate the day after each water change, it will give a better result.

Byron.


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