# Red on comet goldfish



## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

hi hi recently this morning i was feeding my fish and i noticed my female comet goldfish had red on her or under her scales and i grew a bit concerned.now i have two fish in a 2.5 gallon tank and yes i know how big goldfish get and plan to buy a bigger tank once they start getting bigger or when i can afford it on a tight budget right now.and well anywho.Xun the female comet goldfish was swimming a bit weird and had a few scales missing on each side.when i looked at her at first she looked fine barely had anything gone just really red on the back.i looked her over and she acted fine. i left for a few hours and it seem it got worse when i got home she had a buch of more scales missing.i took a few pictures of her and i showed it to a few people and i got so million different answers.one said the common gold fish attacking her which is still a baby (won him at a festival), another said it might be a inner parazite,and then another said she is getting ready to breed my suspicion is the baby is attacking her and ripping onf her scales off not sure though.the baby is really healthy.he swims around and plays and scavages for food too.so i'm not sure what is wrong with the female.i recently cleaned the tank and i move the fish to a temorary enivorment til i'm done then move them back so i might have cause her stress.i also do weekly water changes frequantly as well so i am taking care of them just not sure what's wrong.i gave xun some medicine just incase it was a parazite.i also feed them twice once in the morning and once at night.also i think her fins were getting ripped off


here is a video of her swimming pattern and he baby common goldfish's swimming pattern: 

http://s692.photobucket.com/albums/...ook/My Pets/?action=view&current=DSCN2771.mp4


this is what she looked ike when i first got her: 























And this is what she looks like now followed by the red in her scales : 












it's a bit blury but that's what the other side looks like:


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

i have also isolated the two fish just in case the other one might be attacking


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## MinaMinaMina (Aug 28, 2011)

Ammonia Toxicity, probably compounded by Hemorrhagic Septicemia.
I'm fairly certain of the disease. And I'm POSITIVE of the cause. Please read on!

Both of them are affected by poor water quality. Ammonia toxicity is the main culprit, I suspect, and possibly secondary disease caused by the poor water quality (Hemorrhagic Septicemia is my guess). Do you see their clamped fins and fast respirations? On top of all the other signs? They are very sick.

Do you have liquid tests for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and pH? If so, test the water and post those results. If not, buy an API Master Kit (freshwater), test the water, and post results. Actually, go here http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/diagnosis-form-read-before-you-post-61135/ and fill this out and post it here on this thread.

The most important thing you can do now is giving them very clean water. That means, at the least, daily 50% water changes, with gravel vac! START THIS IMMEDIATELY! Do you have a gravel vac? If not, you need to get one STAT. When you do, we can explain how to use it. Until then, the only way you should be changing your water is to siphon off 50%, then replace it with dechlorinated water that is the same temp as the tank. DO NOT take the fish out of the tank, clean the interior of the tank, then refill the water and return the fish as you have been doing. Don't do this! I'll explain why below.

Disease in fish is brought on by stress, and many times this stress is from poor water quality. In your case, the stress is also coming form another cause- your fish are inappropriate for your tank in a number of ways. First, both Common and Comet Goldfish can grow more than 12" long, and need at least a 75 gallon tank for just ONE fish, probably 100+ gallons for two! They also need double the filtration that many other fish would need. With two fish in a tank that size (2.5 gallon), there is *no way* you can keep the water clean enough for them to stay healthy. Goldfish are HUGE waste machines, and create a much bigger bioload than a fish their size should. POOP FACTORIES! :lol: They need to be in big tanks from the _start_ of their lives, not moved to a larger tank when they outgrow the one they're in. But the time they are big enough to "need" a larger tank, there is already damage done. Secondly, they're stressed by a lack of space to exercise properly. There may also be other hidden stressers.

Do you know about the Nitrogen cycle? If not, you can read more here: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/
The abridged version goes like this: Fish produce waste, which is Ammonia. Ammonia is very toxic, in any amount! (In your case, Goldfish produce much more Ammonia than the average fish, and in a much smaller space!). Beneficial bacteria grows on the surfaces of the tank that convert Ammonia to Nitrite. Nitrite is also toxic in any amount! Then a different beneficial bacteria grows that converts Nitrite to Nitrate. Nitrate is much less toxic, and is removed by the weekly water change to keep levels in the acceptable range (which is, for Goldfish, less than 40ppm). This cycle takes about 6 to 8 weeks to complete naturally, but can be hurried along by certain means.
So when you clean out your tank as you've been doing, you are destroying the beneficial bacteria that is growing. The bacteria is killed by exposure to air, chlorine, certain chemicals, and medications. So you are keeping the tank in a constant state of cycling, and a constant state of toxicity.
The bad news is that, with two Common/Comet Goldfish in a 2.5 gallon tank, you are probably not going to be able to cycle this tank to a stable state with out killing or permanently damaging the fish. (So, for now, keeping doing 50% water changes at least every day, if not more, to try to mitigate the damage.)

You can also help the water be less toxic by feeding the fish less. With less food, they'll produce less waste, and this will improve their water conditions. Feed them only once a day, and only feed them what they can completely consume in 30 seconds or less.

Unless are CERTAIN you can get a 30g (or more) tank in the next week, and a 100g (or more) tank in the next few months, the best thing you can do for these fish is to try to get them healthy, and find someone who has a pond they can go into. You just can't keep these fish healthy in their current arrangement.

To get them healthy, your best bet is to get a large, unused (no history of exposure to liquids or chemicals) plastic storage bin or large, unused (no history of exposure to liquids or chemicals)
plastic garbage can, and a filter that can handle AT LEAST 4og. Put the gravel and decorations from the 2.5g in the bottom of the bin, add any filter media from the 2.5g, add the water, hook up the filtration, and keep up on your daily water changes. Keep them like this until they are healthy enough to go to someone's pond.

Hemorrhagic Septicemia can be caused by bacteria or virus. There's no way to tell which is causing this particular illness, so I would get a broad-spectrum antibiotic fish medication and dose that according to label instructions (follow them _exactly!). _Remember to remove the carbon from you filter, and adjust medication dosing on the fresh, incoming water during a 50% water change.

Hopefully the combination of the large water volume of the storage bin, the daily 50% water changes, and the antibiotic will be enough to get them healthy. I hope! Good luck!


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

MinaMinaMina said:


> Ammonia Toxicity, probably compounded by Hemorrhagic Septicemia.
> I'm fairly certain of the disease. And I'm POSITIVE of the cause. Please read on!
> 
> Both of them are affected by poor water quality. Ammonia toxicity is the main culprit, I suspect, and possibly secondary disease caused by the poor water quality (Hemorrhagic Septicemia is my guess). Do you see their clamped fins and fast respirations? On top of all the other signs? They are very sick.
> ...



Problem is i live in a apartment and i have a cat so putting them in a garbage bin or bucket is out of the question without risking them to the cat.i also highly doubt it's amonia toxicity.the other fish just might be bulling the bigger fish.also there are no ponds around here nor do my friends own any ponds and i'm not going to go to someone else's pond just to take care of them i rather take care of them myself where i can watche them and not dump them on someone else and go oh here you go i'm leaving my fish here in your pound i hope that is ok oh don't worry i'll be back everyday to take care of them.thank you for the advice but i've done research on goldfish and the tank does stun their growth but i do plan to get a bigger tank as i said at the moment i can't til further notice.and i am giving the fish medacine.igive them 1 tps,i maunder their tank 24/7 and their temprature granted the tank went over 80 the other day and i acted fast and did the water change like 25% like i'm suppose to do.right now they're isolated and xun's fin is rip off i doubt that is cause of the illness i think it's more of the common fish picking on her.but i will leave the bacteria in for now on and not empty the tank like i normally do. i clean the tank once a month,and do weekly water changes every week cause doing a daily water change stresses the fish even more since you need to let the water set for a week so they can get use to it doing a daily change will cause more damage and stress to the fish.anyway i talked to a professional a few moments ago and showed her the pictures and she said the other fish just might be attacking her again i'm keeping an eye on the comet fish just to make sure.i'm not letting my babies die.but just in case she's wrong i do like second opinions


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## MinaMinaMina (Aug 28, 2011)

Many storage bins and trash cans come with a lid, and most of them are snap-on. So they're secure against cats.

Believe me when I say I've been there, too, but some of what you've heard is a myth. There's a lot of wrong information out there, and we're all susceptible to it. The advice I hear from chain pet stores is almost always wrong, for example. When I was just starting out with fish, I fell victim to a lot of bad information, too. I made a lot of mistakes at first! We've all been there. :-D
The problem is, the myth about daily water changes causing more stress than poor water, is just that- a myth. And the myth that the water needs to sit for a week for them to get used to it is a myth, too. Clean water is the best medicine, period, for any and all problems.

I disagree with the diagnosis. (For example, if it were simply a case of bullying, the other fish wouldn't be affected, but yet in the video they BOTH have their dorsal and anal fins clamped and are breathing heavily. And also, with the way you were cleaning the tank, there is no way that there ISN'T Ammonia or Nitrite in the water because your cleaning was preventing the tank from cycling fully.) BUT whether its poor water conditions and disease, or a case of bullying, whichever- the best treatment is the same- clean water. I know that, if I had wounds, they wouldn't heal very well if I was sitting in water containing my own waste.  No one would, not humans nor fish.

Surely you'll do what you think is best. I'm just trying to tell you what my experience and research have taught me. I'm sure others will weigh in with their thoughts. I just strongly urge you to carefully consider what I've said, for the sake of the fish. Good luck!


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

ok a few questions

how much water do i take it to tell if it's 50% in a 2.5 gallon tank? again i can't afford a new tank right now i had one in a bowl then bought this one to so they could have a bit more room and not slam into the walls every 2 seconds.when i can i plan to get a bigger tank.

how will i know they are getting better? like if i see their fins and scales growing back,or such?

how long do you think it may take for them to recover? about an estimate month


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

here is a video after i did a water change like you suggested


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey Ash! Mina is very right in her diagnosis and recommendations. That is septicemia brought on by ammonia and nitrite poisoning. I've seen it before. Two common goldfish won't survive in a 2.5 gal tank. I'm sorry you got some bad advice in the past, but there is still a chance you can save these guys. In order to do this they will need to be in a larger volume of water. The best medicine you can give your fish is clean water. Nothing else beats that. Don't worry about antibiotics now as antibiotics in the water also kill the good bacteria. 

Most large bins come with tops. I also have cats and use these large bins as quarantine tanks when I get new fish. Put a top on it and they won't think twice about it. Or put it behind a closed door. Any bathroom without a shower works well. If you can't get your fish into a larger home, there is very little that can be done for them. 

To slow the rate of ammonia being put into the water, lower the water temperature below 70F. This needs to be done slowly over the course of a few days. Only feed them once a day. Less food in means less waste out. 

You might also want to check out this site: Gold fish Care Sheet

We'll do our best to provide you with the right information. It's no fun to see someone fail and fish die. We're here because we love fish.


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

Two common goldfish won't 

one is a comet goldfish and one is a common goldfish two different types of goldfish.and i said it already i can't afford a bigger space for them right now even if i could move them in a bucket i can't i don't own one nor can i afford one.i'm just going to do daily water changes an see the results for myself i never assume the worse no matter what.if my methods don't work well i'll try something else.i just saw yesterday and it's only be there for two days so i'm doing all i can.not movin them to some random person's pond,and when i can't i'll but a bigger tank but til then i'll just manage the 2.5 gallon tank as much as i can.i won't let them die that easily


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

also you can keep goldfish in a 2,5 gallon tank if you take very good care iof them which i have i just messed up by taking them ot of the tank and cleaning it and the water went screwy plus and plus not everyone is made of money so even if you guys say go out and buy a bigger tank or a bucket I can't at the monet til furter notice.but also i'm not trying to kill them if i did i wouldn't be taking care of the for three months like i have.even though they're sick right now i'm not stressing them out even more by moving them from tank to tank to bucket they get stressed out enough with me always in their tank doing stuff to help them.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Comet and common goldfish are basically the same thing when we are looking at ammonia production and swimming room. Goldfish are divided into two basic types: round-bodied double tails and sleek-bodied single tails. Each type has different swimming/tank needs. The sleek-bodied single tails are shubunkin, comets, and commons. Those are the goldfish that need 75+ gal tanks. 

Moving them to someone's pond is a last-ditch resort. We know you would rather keep your fish. But you have to understand a 2.5 gal tank is not a suitable home for a fish that commonly grows over a foot long in about a year. Keeping them in that tank is the primary cause of the disease. 

In order to keep them in that small of a tank, you will have to do daily water changes even after they have healed and the tank is cycled. By the time they begin to outgrow that tank a lot of damage will have already been done. The sooner you can get them into a larger tank (we're talking 40-50 gal) the better. Until then: daily water changes.

I'm sorry. I don't know who told you that you could keep a goldfish in a 2.5 gal tank, but they were wrong. You can't keep a 1 foot fish in a 1 foot tank. Even keeping the water quality pristine won't help with swimming room. Not all of us are made of money either. Fishkeeping is an expensive hobby if you do it right; budgeting and planning can help, tho. I'm on a college kid budget and still have 4 healthy tanks.


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

Ashtreelogger said:


> also i hacve been taking very good care of them which i have i just messed up by taking them ot of the tank and cleaning it and the water went screwy plus and plus not everyone is made of money so even if you guys say go out and buy a bigger tank or a bucket I can't at the monet til furter notice.but also i'm not trying to kill them if i did i wouldn't be taking care of the for three months like i have.even though they're sick right now i'm not stressing them out even more by moving them from tank to tank to bucket they get stressed out enough with me always in their tank doing stuff to help them.


ignore the first reply


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## MinaMinaMina (Aug 28, 2011)

TheKoiMaiden makes wonderful points!

I just want to emphasize that we're NOT trying to pick on you or accuse you of trying to hurt your fish. I can see that you care for them, and want to do the best for them. We're just trying to help you learn what is the best thing for them, so you can aim for that.

It might not hurt to ask around to friends and family to see if anyone might have a storage bin you can borrow. When I was using one, I found it in my parents' basement holding baby clothes. Its possible that someone could let you borrow one, especially if you provided them with some cardboard boxes (that can be found for free) in which the can store the former contents of the bin you're borrowing. Its an idea!

Also, a possibility might be looking into used tanks and equipment now, or when you've saved some money. Some pet/fish stores, especially independent ones, sell used equipment. Also, you could try looking in the classifieds. Often people grow tired of their fish stuff and sell it for super cheap. craigslist.org is awesome for this, if you're in the states.

Oh, and I just thought- there are some things you can do to help supplement the cycle. If you know anyone with an established, HEALTHY tank (no history of disease) you can take some biomedia (i.e. anything that grows beneficial bacteria on it like substrate, filter media, decor, etc) and "seed" your tank with that beneficial bacteria to help jumpstart/supplement your bacterial growth. It must come from a healthy tank, as you can't clean it in any way or expose it to chlorinated water. You just take the biomedia from their tank, keep it wet in tank water, and put it in your tank as quick as you can.

Does your tank have a light? If it doesn't, do you have a desk lamp that you could shine into it? If so, we could suggest plants that would really help with the cycle. There are a handful of plant species that are exceptional at sucking up Ammonia before it has a chance to harm the fish. So let us know if this is an option for you, what kind of light you have, and we can tell you specifically which plant to get. (Not all plants will help your situation, so we'd have to plan it out so as to not waste your money.)
Speaking of which, just today I bought a clip-on desk light from the thrift store. I'm using it for hatching baby brine shrimp to feed to my fry, but the same kinda thing would be ideal for your situation. Oh, and THAT reminds me that I've seen tanks for sale at thrift store before. Who knows if they hold water, but they can easily be re-sealed with $7 worth of silicone sealant and some elbow grease. Re-sealing a tank can seem intimidating, but really only requires some research and a can-do attitude. :-D

I'm really pulling for your little fishies, I hope they can heal up and be healthy!


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

well the gravel i use is the round soft kind (doesn't remember name)as you can see in the tank but wait buy live plants and put them in the tank if so does that mean i have to replace the gravel i'm using?i think i might want this option first.yes i do use a light i turn it on for 9 hours every day the light bulb is a 15 wat one no i do not have a desk lamp unless i move the tank to a night stand but the 2.5 gal came with a filter,light,air pump and suchthe water is clear as day too so besides the bacteria gone i see nothing wrong with it i did do a daily water change god that was an adventure to get the vacuume to work.also quick question like i said i have no buckets or trash bins and can't afford anydo to being out of a job -___-,BUT would a cooler like this one here work?






















obviously i'll have to cover the hole up so they don't swim in it and get stuck. if i give it a good scrubbing could it work?my mom's friend gave it to us before they moved just wandering if it would work if so what would be the best way to go about it?like the lid moving the fliter to it and such.i'll do anything to get them better also the other fish as you saw on the video keeps pecking the sicker one anyway to prevent that or even know why he's doing that to her?he'll peck her and she swims behind the filter occassional he chases her around the fake plants then they dispand then did it a few more times(i think it's becauseof the 5 second memory)


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Your gravel will be fine for plants. There are many that don't even need to be rooted. Floating plants are great because they give your fish some shade and aren't fussy about gravel. Hornwort would be a great plant for your tank. I keep it with my goldfish. It does wonders to keep the water quality good, but it won't replace the need for water changes. 

That cooler looks very good at a temp larger home. When you clean it make sure you _don't_ use soap as it can kill your fish. Use baking soda or vinegar. And always make sure it is rinsed very well. Or if nothing has been spilled in it, you could just give it a good rinsing with water to get any dust out of it. 

lol. Goldfish don't actually have a 5-second memory. That's just another myth. It's been proven that goldfish can remember things for around 3 months and easily recognize the face that feeds them. There is also evidence they can recognize different voices as they have surprisingly good hearing. 

As to the bullying, sometimes healthy fish will bully sick fish. I've seen it firsthand with my goldfish. I had to separate them to prevent the bullying from worsening the illness. But bullying can also be caused by a cramped space, so maybe when you transfer them to the cooler it will get better. If it doesn't you will have to find a way to separate them.


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

so xun the momet goldfish is doing a lot better than before the red in the scales have disappeared and i've noticed today her fins have been growing a bit and where the scales have fallen off started healing a bit tomoeeow i'm transfering the to a five gallon goldfish tank then buying a small betta for the 2,5 gallon tank.right now they're in a temporary fish bowl til the water sets for 24 hours then moving them out of the bowl.but i wantec to let you know they are bth doing fine


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

It's great that they seem to be getting better! It is amazing what clean water can do in any tank. Keep us updated!


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## Ashtreelogger (Mar 8, 2012)

well i added the betta and the water temprature in both tanks keep increasing not sure how to drop it right now i'm trying the frozen water bottle trick


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Actually bettas (Siamese fighting fish - click on the name for more info) like warm temperatures. They do best when the water is between 78F and 82F. I keep my bettas around 79F. You should start to worry when the temp goes over 82F. For the goldfish, just try changing their water with cooler water. Just be sure you don't drop or raise the temp too fast. You've been working so hard to get them healed, you don't want to stress them out any more. 

Oh ya. I forgot, if you keep the tanks out of the sun and away from windows it helps keep the temperature a little more constant.


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