# is it big enough?



## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

so I picked up a 2 gallon octagon tank and was wondering if it would be big enough to form into a salt water tank with a clown fish, a sea anemone, and a piece of live rock? or any other suggestions would be good.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

A 2 gallon tank would really be pushing the limits. But keep in mind, the evolution of mini reef environments over the last several years has really been amazing. A lot of things are possible that we would not have even attempted in the past. 

That being said, small aquariums are for very advanced marine aquarists. Given that you are asking questions, this fact alone suggests to me that you probably need more experience in the marine hobby before attempting such a set up. 

Have you ever kept a saltwater tank?


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

my brother had a salt water tank, I've always had a freshwater and right now it's a95 gal. lake malawi tank. I've seen many small reef tanks, like the nano cube that are 8 gallons and just wasn't sure exactly what the limitations are as far as going smaller. it was just a thought.


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## willieturnip (Aug 30, 2009)

The smaller the tank, the harder it is to keep parameters in the pink.

Even keeping the temperature in that small of a tank would be bloody hard, let alone everything else.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

well, I spoke with a coworker who used to have her own pet store and showed her the tank and asked her opinion. apparently, she has a 3 gal. reef tank and said it would work as long as I can get mini lights to cover he requirements for a salt water tank, which aren't really sold in stores. however, I do order from a company online that has something that will prolly work. I would just replace the hood with the light fixture. Or I might be able to get someone in a car club i belong to, to fabricate some bulb setup with the hood that came with my kit since he does all the lights we use. as for temp. she said I could get away without having a heater seeing as that many people use chillers on salt water tanks anyway. it doesn't get too cold or too hot where i live. the filter is under gravel and she said it would be fine.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

This is not a freshwater system. It is not as simple as taking a series of steps, buying the correct equipment, asking for advice, and then having a beautiful display. This mindset is why people are not successful in the marine hobby. People want to take a rocket ship to the moon before they learn to ride a bicycle.

You have to learn this hobby with experience. We can tell you the basics of how to increase your chance of success, or decrease you odds of failure, but there is no amount of book knowledge that is going to help you when you try to do a 2 gallon mini reef. You are attempting to skip years of hands on experience and jump right into an extremely difficult project. Odds of this system lasting longer than 6 months without crashing are slim to none. You simply do not have the skill set to do this, and it shows from comments you made above. 

Bottom line, the information your friend has given you is so wrong that everyone who reads your thread is shaking their head and not even sure if it is worth their time to post an answer. First, increasing temperature is not a concern. Keeping the temperature stable is a stress factor making the entire system at increased risk of disease and infection. Second, using an undergravel fillter on a marine system is ridiculous. U/G filters trap detritus which causes spikes in phosphate and Nitrate. Nitrate stresses the corals and fish, causing disease. Phosphates bond with carbonates, removing them from your buffer system, lowering alkalinity, and causing massive swings in calcium levels. 

Keep in mind, I could buy a new car and drive it for 20,000 miles without an oil change. However, that would not make it intelligent for you to do as I do. There are methods that are tried and true in this hobby. Methods that have been well documented over the last 40 years in all the aquarium literature and online. You need to use a method that has a proven track record of success.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

^ok, well people like you are the reason I only talk to my actual pet store friends ( friends that have and have had successfull businesses) versus coming on here and asking total strangers. I was just wanting to hear how many other people have done stuff like this. Like I stated before it's been done and I know the pet store owner who did it very well and trust them. not to mention the fact that I do have more experience than you might think, you don't know me, so you don't know. questions are only questions. I never stated how many yrs I have, but for your info (which it doesn't matter) I've had fish tanks my whole life and they've been at dif. levels and have all been successful, and that's because I work at making sure they are done right regardless what some stranger may think is possible. You are not the person I have been talking to everyday at work who owns and runs a pet store. And while I'm at it...I would never go to you about advice on a car...everything I do I do very well and succeed at. I am most certain that I know more than you about cars on any given day. So, with that being said, you can do whatever you want to my account since you are a moderator for this site, because you have made my experience on here not a pleasant one and I am a member of other forums that treat people with more respect than you have shown me on here.


and just one thing about my last post on here that you judged...the whole temp. thing was a statement about where I live meaning that it doesn't go up or down very much, which would help in keeping a stable temp. in my house/tank with or without a heater.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

My gut instinct was to apologize for upsetting Sharkie. But after rereading this thread I've changed my mind. There is nothing at all about my post that was rude or assuming. In fact, Sharkie is the one who made the assumption that this web site is just like every other site. I receive an amazing amount of email and messages from readers on this forum thanking us for being patient, kind, and helpful. I really appreciate the positive feedback that many of you have given, and it makes me very willing to speak open and honest on a thread such as this.

I do want to respond for the purpose of others who are reading this thread and actually want help from those of us with experience. First, you should know that nobody is paid to be here. We are here because we enjoy this hobby and want to help others. We volunteer our time and receive nothing from it. None of us have anything to gain or loose by answering your questions or helping you be successful, other than the enjoyment of the hobby. This isn't a battle of wits or an attempt to establish some pecking order. This is a group of people who are trying to help each other be successful.

That being said, it is actually VERY possible to quickly tell the experience level of a fishkeeper. The questions that are asked and statements that are made tell an experienced fishkeeper a TON of information about the background and experience of the person posting. When you post a question on this forum, you should not be mad or upset if the answer is not the answer you are looking for. We are going to be honest, and are going to shoot it to you straight.

Also, a disagreement is just that. There is absolutely nothing about the post above that is against forum rules or would result in a moderator taking action to remove a member.


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## zaitmi (Sep 23, 2009)

Cool it Sharkie. 
Just listen Pasfur. 
Here he Rules. 
He will help u every single day.
Take care for your Nano Reef.
(Mine is 29 Gallon) Coming up project.
In Marine - Patience is the name of the Game Bro.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

^ I left out details since I didn't feel it was necesary. Obviously MOST people haven't been able to do this project that can and will succeed at. Yes, I have a freshwater right now, but I do know how to do a salt water too. It's just been over 6 yrs. since I last messed with one and am only reconfirming things about it on here. Infact, as far as this project goes I've already added 2 people to the list that have done it and done it right (with a much higher bioload than whatI plan on doing). And since ya'll seem to make assumptions due to my lack of history teaching here goes... I started my hobby on with a 2 gal. tank 20 yrs. ago and have only gone up from there. A 29 gal. tank was another tank I had and then I wanted a bigger one for larger fish, so I got A 95 gal. I've switched it over from a successful gourami/angel tank to a successful lake malawi tank (doing so with the gourami in it and having them actually loving the new "settings"). My fish have never been happier and I enjoy watching them play and mate. I also currently have a very happy "dinosaur eel" in my tank that just loves his home and doesn't cause any problems nor gets picked on by other fish. I know all about patience, my life has been nothing but patience. I know that a 2 gal reef tank is going to be hard. I know 2 pet store owners that have them going right now as we type. they don't have heaters or chillers on them and keep temp. right, and they both have the same undergravel filter I have. They just have more in theirs than I plan on having, and yes, I said successful. Ug is just an old school thing and they actually make heaters for small 2-5 gal. tanks, as well as lighting specific for corals and reefs. My questions have only been reconfirming things I already know with hopes of finding someone on here that's done a small reef tank under 8 gal. to see how they have theirs and what all might be in theirs. 

i WILL do this setup, and when I do, it WILL be successful as I will take the steps to make sure it is. When I do IF I still have my acct. on here or even come back, I will post up pictures just how successful it is and prove you all wrong. Since you all seem to underestimate me. I am all about proving people wrong when they say something can't be done. Watch and learn is what I say to that.

{mod comments: I have removed everything from this thread that is not related to the topic being discussed. - Pasfur}


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I want to remind the reader, and Sharkie, that this thread was created in the "Starting a Saltwater Aquarium" section of the forum. This sections is subtitled "Talk about starting saltwater aquariums for the first time."

This portion of the site is for beginners with very little experience who are looking to set up their first saltwater aquarium. If you are an experienced fishkeeper or do not have beginning level questions, then your question should be posted in the "Saltwater Aquariums" area for a more appropriate discussion. The moderating team will explore ways to make it more clear that only beginner level discussions belong in this section.

Back to the thread....

I never said this couldn't be done. I said this couldn't be done by someone with a beginner level skill set. If you have the level of experience that you describe, then you certainly are not a beginner. I would suggest you post your discussion in the "Pictures and Videos" area, starting a build thread, and use your experience to share with others the techniques you will use to make this 2 gallon mini reef a success.


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## terryap (Sep 22, 2009)

just a question,, and please don't take it the wrong way, if you are so set on doing it and so confident that you will be successful....then why are you asking for advice?
look, I've also kept fresh water for over 10 years, all different sizes and all different species....I also tried saltwater a few years ago, and did not ask for advice, and sure enough my system crashed. This is why I am taking advice seriously, BUT, if I want to do something, I will, and will not argue with members for their opinions. If you are set on doing something do it, but don't shoot people down for their replies to your ideas, afterall, you are asking.

again, please don't take offense, as there is none meant by it


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

it really wasn't advice, it was more curiosity and just double checking things. I didn't realize such a small amount of people have done a salt water in a tank this size. I'm just going to stick with the people I know have done it from here on out.


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## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

Hey sharkie A question for you. Aside to what pasfur has said and every one else on here. We are all beginners and experianced. Aside that there are people on here that would like to watch your build be succesfull including me. Who cares what the experince is. Im not disagreeing with you Pasfur or anyone else. Im just saying let keep the peace here. Lets see your build come to gether and lots of pic. As to there may be others That come on to the sight that wants to try one some day. I am a beginner in the salt water Pasfur has helped me a lot maybe with your skills you can help others just like he has helped me. Best regards Mollies


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## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

yea. what pasfur said was just facts. if u want to try it do it! and if it succeds (how do u spell tht?) then i would LOVE to see it! i think a 2 gal tank would be amazing! were u planning on centering the rock/rocks? ive never had a saltwater tank so i know NOTHING but i know u need salt, water, rocks, and fish....


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

well, I was going to see if I can get some crushed live rock for the substrate ( can get it almost free and from an already cycled tank at my lfs) and then a small live rock (prolly center back of tank). I don't have the light or heater yet, but I'm gonna find where I want the tank setup and just set it up without any fish or animals for awhile. with the crushed live rock i'm gonna get, cycling shouldn't take as long, but I still want it to be just right for awhile.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Do you plan on using sand on the bottom and mixing the crushed live rock into the sand bed? I have had pretty good success with that technique... seeding the life in the sand.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

I thought about doing that, but my concern is that the sand might go through the holes in the filter and cause it to not work as it should. my next day off is fri. and i'm goin to try to go to my lfs and talk to my co-workers husband about getting the crushed live rock. an option I thought about would be to put a layer of micron fabric in the bottom of the tank ontop of the filter before putting substrate in. just not sure how it would affect the filter. My co-worker said she uses the crushed live rock with the undergravel filter and has not problems with it.


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## willieturnip (Aug 30, 2009)

Not to sound like a nob, but I don't understand the want to use ANY filtration in a marine tank. As far as I see it, with a sensibly stocked tank all you need is natural filtration (live rock and sand) and a protein skimmer.

Can you give us a quick run down of the kit you intend to use? 

I think 2 gallons is far too small for a clown too. I suppose you _might_ get away with an Ocellaris, though I would recommend at least 20 gallons for it to be happy.

A small goby or similar might be a better bet.

What lighting are you going to use?

Why not just use a bigger tank seems the obvious question! Why exactly do you want to go so tiny? Any size marine is tough to maintain if your just setting out in the salty world, let alone that small of a tank.


Listen to Pasfur. If there's anyone around these parts to listen to, it's Pasfur.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I clearly agree with Willie, however, given as this thread is an attempt to do a 2 gallon marine tank, we can provide some constructive dialog and input, and hopefully everyone can achieve a take away to apply to whatever their future in this hobby holds.

That being said, I think Sharkie, that you have uncovered something about the system. Although this is technically an undergravel filter system, it is not being used like an undergravel in the traditional sense. Meaning, you won't have "gravel". You won't be cultivated an artificial supply of bacteria that consume organic waste. Your system will actually be used to provide water circulation around a layer of live rock. Crushed live rock or not, live rock is live rock and water flow is water flow, and your system is not all that different than most... at least not in the ultimate goal, which is to use live rock as a natural filter system.

Do you plan to utilize any skimming, or at least activated carbon?


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

correct...umm. as for skimming or carbon...I think I'm goin to see how it does without it at first and then go from there, being as that it is limited on space. the lightin will be a hood I'm getting from a website that is about 9" long and 5"wide andbout 2" high. it'll have the salt water actinic light and flourescent light. it'll be slightly bigger than the actual tank. it is currently out of stock on the site thus my waitin to put fish or anything in it, and just have it up and running. the site also has a mini heater for upto 5 gal. tanks that can be burried. I plan on buying that just to have it if needed. dependin on how big of actual live rock I get for deco. will define how much swiming space there will be. I don't really want a big piece since I'll have the live rock "gravel", but more something an anemone can attach to. as for not getting a bigger tank...i have a 95 wave already and wanted something smaller to just kinda have as an accent piece somewhere. didn't really know what I was goin to put in it til I tought about the nano tanks and heard about the 2.5 gal. tanks some people where I live have.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

so I just ordered the hood since I found it on amazon.com and it was In stock. I also checked out the crushed live rock, which is more like chunk live rock. as long as it doesn't fall through the holes on the filter piece I'm happy. Now, I just need to figure out where I want to set my tank up and buy the water for it and then get the rock. yay!

on another positive note...I picked up 3 electric blue fry at my lfs for real cheap and I put them in my net breeder so they can get bigger before releasing them in my malawi tank.


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## willieturnip (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm looking forward to seeing this done. A nano is probably the next project after the 150 (though that should take me well into next year, if not the year after.. :lol.

Can you clear up exactly what the system is going to be so well can all check if it's the best way to do things? However you may feel about the forum, there are hundreds of years of experience available and it can't hurt to utilize that.

Also what the planned maintenance regime is?


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

here is the set up right out of the box without the gravel it came with. i just set it up with tap water to make sure i like it where it is. the hood, plants, and rock will be out of it when my hood comes. there was a shipping problem and had to get another one sent to me. it's a compact hood with 2 9 watt bulbs...one being fluorescent and the other bein actinic blue. the filtering is the undergravel filter with thte air stone goin up the back. I will be getting live rock rubble for my substrate with 1 bigger chunk of live rock for decor. I will also be buying my water from the lfs. Maint. will pretty much be cleaning/siphoning every week if not more. I will have it be just the rock/rumble/new hood/salt water for awhile before I add anything else to it. I'm kinda hoping to get some living forms in the live rock to see how they hold up in the tank. one of my lfs sells live rock with mush. on it and you just get whatever is growing on it. another lfs has their live rock in a tank with itty bitty starfish pieces all over and just maybe i'd get one on a piece. so I'm really not sure where I'll get the decor. piece from. as for a name on the tank, it's a tank i got from work which is just a pharmacy...it was their own brand for xmas gifts left over from last year. They just got the best of me after seeing them on the shelf for a year.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

my light upgrade came today. I just have to adjust it a little bit so it's more stable on the top.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

i would also skip using the under gravel filter completely. i would go with sand and live rock as my filtration personally. since it appears your sticking with the UGF i strongly suggest atleast using it reverse so detritus and debris is suspended in the water. the crushed coral allows alot of nooks to be created for debris to get trapped, similiar to how it will get trapped under the under gravel filter. eventually this collection of debris breaks down causing nitrate/phosphate issues. this same concept applies in any size tank so one must be careful of undergravel filters, large substrates, dead or low flowing areas of the tank, and sponges or netting that can collect gunk should be watched for. i also strongly advise no anemone or clown, at the very, very least no anemone. something that i think would look very interesting is this tank jam packed with ricordias or a nice zoanthid garden of all different colors with 3 or 5 sexy shrimp. 
the temp. of the tank will change from the heat off the lights. a few degrees is a big change so just keep a close eye. anyways i like the idea and where its going. keep the pictures coming.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

+1 to what onefish said.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

onefish2fish said:


> i would also skip using the under gravel filter completely. i would go with sand and live rock as my filtration personally. since it appears your sticking with the UGF i strongly suggest atleast using it reverse so detritus and debris is suspended in the water. the crushed coral allows alot of nooks to be created for debris to get trapped, similiar to how it will get trapped under the under gravel filter. eventually this collection of debris breaks down causing nitrate/phosphate issues. this same concept applies in any size tank so one must be careful of undergravel filters, large substrates, dead or low flowing areas of the tank, and sponges or netting that can collect gunk should be watched for. i also strongly advise no anemone or clown, at the very, very least no anemone. something that i think would look very interesting is this tank jam packed with ricordias or a nice zoanthid garden of all different colors with 3 or 5 sexy shrimp.
> the temp. of the tank will change from the heat off the lights. a few degrees is a big change so just keep a close eye. anyways i like the idea and where its going. keep the pictures coming.



I've only used the ugf the way it's meant to be used so when you say using it reverse what do you mean? turning the plate upside down? and the holes seem small enough to where I mite be able to use sand and not have it fall through. and it's only set up this way just so i have an idea of how it's gonna look...stuff inside won't be there when i set it to salt water. that's just plain old tap in it right now. and I haven't completely made up my mind about livestock. I also will not be using crushed coral in this either a mixture of live rock rubble and live sand or just live rock rubble...depending on how it goes. I def. like your idea of the ricordeas and zoanthid garden. I would love to get bright colors in this tank for sure.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

reverse under gravel filter, meaning you pump water down the tube to push water up and out from the plate instead of having the plate suck the water down, trapping things under the plate causing problems the water flowing upwards helps to better keep things in suspension. if your 100% heart set on using the UGF this is the way to do it. honestly, your better off without it. 
the sand may not fall through the small holes of the UGF, atleast at the start. give it enough time and the sand will make its way below the plate.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

just a curiosity question, how would the ugf be affected if I was to use live sand under the ugf plate and around it and then put a layer of live rock rubble on top of it? would it completely block the filtration flow or would it be strong enough to filter through the sand still? I currently have the air pump with max amount of air flow. I recently picked up a 20 long tank for a sump and it had a dig. therm., stealth heater, and tetra 100 air pump. I tetra 100 air pump on my cichlid tank only has one working side so I'm just swapping the two and it might put out more air than the pump on the lil saltwater tank.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Look up Plenum Filters.

This kind of sounds like what you are trying to do.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

onefish2fish said:


> reverse under gravel filter, meaning you pump water down the tube to push water up and out from the plate instead of having the plate suck the water down, trapping things under the plate causing problems the water flowing upwards helps to better keep things in suspension. if your 100% heart set on using the UGF this is the way to do it. honestly, your better off without it.
> the sand may not fall through the small holes of the UGF, atleast at the start. give it enough time and the sand will make its way below the plate.


 
so basically it's kinda like a fluidized bed filter in a wlay. so, if that's the case then whats the harm in leaving the plate in and just use it as a support for the tube and put sand under/around/above it? that is pretty much how a fluidized bed filter works, right? I mean it is just a canister where water is pumped through sand, filtering out the water as it goes through the sand, and then being pumped back into the tank (so to speak) as clean water?

it's not that my heart is set on using the ugf, i'm trying to use as much of the tank kit i got that I can and if needing to modify then so be it. Plus since it is such a small tank then, I really don't have much room to put devices in it. I am currently running tests on how my temp. will be affected with the light I'll be using to see what my need for a heater is. No heater left my water at a steady 69.6 degree F. I've had the lights on for about 6 hrs. now and it raised it to 73 the last time I checked. I will be doing tests to see how warm it gets on and cool off and then to see what kind of fluctuations will be happening later.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I look at this tank a little different. It really isn't an undergravel filter, because you are not using gravel or sand as the method of providing biological filtration. You are actually using live rock, and live rock crumbles, and then using the riser tube and filter plate as a method of water circulation across the live rock.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> I look at this tank a little different. It really isn't an undergravel filter, because you are not using gravel or sand as the method of providing biological filtration. You are actually using live rock, and live rock crumbles, and then using the riser tube and filter plate as a method of water circulation across the live rock.


so, do u think it would be fine with just the crumbles or should I modify it? I mean I can do anything suggested or just go with my original plans and thoughts. One person did note that You should tech.do not need filtration in a saltwater tank, as they pretty much run themselves.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

sharkie chomp said:


> so, do u think it would be fine with just the crumbles or should I modify it? I mean I can do anything suggested or just go with my original plans and thoughts. One person did note that You should tech.do not need filtration in a saltwater tank, as they pretty much run themselves.


For practical purposes, in an aquarium, filtration is the process by which we slow down the degrading of water quality. Every aquarium needs some sort of "filtration", but marine aquariums utilize filtration in a very different way than freshwater systems.

The use of live rock and sand is in fact, a method of filtration. They both break down waste, resulting in water which is free of ammonia and is low in dissolved organic compounds. In most cases, a protein skimmer is essential towards achieving this goal. In your system, due to its small size, you are able to get away with just live rock as your filtration method, complimented by frequent small water changes.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

right, and that was my original plan, just wanted to double check on the sand issue lol. I've got so many thoughts and ideas running through my mind with this set up.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

so I was looking at reviews on the heater i was looking at getting. since it only costs about 13-15 dollars i will prolly get it and attach it to the outside of the tank and quite possibly under it since it doesn't sit flat on the table and has a space for the air pump under the tank. I was thinking that as far as keeping a fairly stable temp. I'd turn the heater off as long as the light is on and then turn it on when I turn the light off. I will also see how it goes with both heater and light on just to test my max temps. to know how cautious I will need to be

Hydor Mini Aquarium Heater at PETCO


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I personally use timers on my tank to have lights come on and off. This would keep everything on a nice schedule.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

yeah, that would work too.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

well, I bought my water, the lil heater I posted earlier, live rock rubble for 2 gallons ( might actually try to get another gal. worth if i can find some just slightly smaller to cover some open spots on the bottom but most of it is covered), and a hydrometer. I am waiting a few days to make sure everything goes smoothly. I have not gotten a timer yet, they are all in the mid-upper 30s at all the lfs that I've been to lately. I found some online for 28 and 29. I prefer a dig. surge protector strip style. if any suggestions for better prices please let mew know. I don't have any expectations of free loading creatures in the rock rubble, but would be nice to see if there are. I will post a pic later.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

get a timer from walmart or home depot. the coralife strip timers have a reputation online for shorting and causing house fires, and i believe zoomed is the same company. i dont know how true this is, but im willing to spend less on a smaller timer from HD then more at a LFS only to burn my house down. 

as for hydrometer your best bet is going on eBay and finding a refractometer. the price is a few times that of a hydrometer but quality and accuracy do not compare.


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## willieturnip (Aug 30, 2009)

I think reversing the flow in the UG is a great idea.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

I went to the lfs today and picked up two pieces of rock that had little polyups on them for starters and then 2 little blue legged hermit crabs. my tank has begun to have copepods for about a week now. Depending on how many copepods develop (lots right now) and keep developing, I am considering getting psychedelic fish (mandarin fish), but I have to make sure I get one that will eat something other than the copepods so it doesn't starve. While looking at my tank it seems as though I've picked up a tiny starfish piece. I am still looking for a good buy on the timer surge protector. most places around here don't have them in timers except for the ones that plug into your outlet and are not the strips. I will prolly end up ordering one online since they seem to be cheapest i've found so far. i still have to check lowes and home depot. will post pics up once i get them on my comp.

I did also notice a section on my new coral rock that has clearish green circular egg like balls. not sure what they are. any ideas? everything seems to be staying stable in the tank as well.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

the top pic is the 2 pieces I bought and one of the hermit crabs. 

the other pic is a close up of the egg like things I noticed. it's the best shot of a close up I have right now.

My husband got us an olympus e-300 dig. cam. for xmas and we have been playing with it all day. :-D


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

this pic kinda shows the 2nd piece I got with a lil more focus. I kinda forgot to get a good pic of just the back piece while I was playing with the cam.


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## willieturnip (Aug 30, 2009)

bubble algae?


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

the clear bubble popped...so...i dunno.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I can't tell from the picture what type of algae that is. Bubble algae would be unusual at this point. Most likely cynobacteria in the early stages, but the picture doesn't really look like it. Can you post more pics from a wider camera angel?


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

after doing some googling, I'm almost positive it's the bubble algae. it was on the piece of rock when i got it from the lfs, I just didn't notice it till I was taking pics and almost turning upside down to see it at a good angle. I'll do what I can to get a dif. pic if I can.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

while viewing my tank today, I noticed what looks like a crab body with blue legs. I had thought mybe one had died before I got a chance to more shells for them to grow into. I had only been able to see one crab at the time too. I finally noticed the other shell, and to my surprise it still had the snail in it and alive n kicking. so where did the other body come from when I only bought 2 blue legged hermit crabs (in shells)? the other body does have blue legs too and is def. dead.


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## Kellsindell (Sep 15, 2008)

Looked like a valonia. It collects crap and fills. You want to pull them out without popping it.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

sharkie chomp said:


> while viewing my tank today, I noticed what looks like a crab body with blue legs. I had thought mybe one had died before I got a chance to get more shells for them to grow into. I had only been able to see one crab at the time too. I finally noticed the other shell, and to my surprise it still had the crab in it and alive n kicking. so where did the other body come from when I only bought 2 blue legged hermit crabs (in shells)? the other body does have blue legs too and is def. dead.



just wanted to edit this incase of confusion


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

well, silly me...apparently my lil fear of crabs caused me to miss out on some vital info. Not only to do blue leg hermit crabs out grow their shels n fight over others but they also molt. I asked the guy at the lfs where i got them from if they shed or something and he said no. go figure. So that body I saw would have been a "skin". I haven't tried to get any fish yet, still just sitting patiently and observing the tank.

It seems as though i have about 5 starfish pieces that I've counted at one time and maybe even a small brittle star. I just happened to have seen something move on one of my pieces from behind it and noticed there were a few "tentacles/arms". I managed to stick my head around to the back of the tank and saw what it was. it's small and I've only seen it the one time but it def. resembles the brittle stars.

I also don't have much knowledge about jellyfish in captivity, but I noticed these little tiny things every once in awhile that have a rounded top with little tentacles that dart around when the lights get turned off. they move just like a jelly fish does and is clear with a small thing in the middle. I really don't know what they could be, I've only seen about 4 of them. I've also come across a snail or slug that has laid eggs in a few spots on the sides of the tank. it's kinda purple/maroon like with little pieces sticking out from it all the same color.

any thoughts would be apprecitated as I'm very bad at remembering all the tank animals names due to there being so many within fresh and saltwater and majority are hard to pronounce.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

ok, just an update. I haven't done much with the tank yet...still waiting to see how it goes before making any big purchases. I did get a digital timer (love it) and a floating magnet cleaner (has a string attached to the floating piece so i can pull it out easily when not using it. I am considering getting a h2o circulator that's for nanos in hopes of getting more water movement...not sure yet.

I bought 4 more blue leg hermit crabs and about 6 empty shells. one of my other original crabs shed and left it in the front of the tank. really cool looking. 

I also picked up a small emerald crab.

as a thought to help keep phosphates and nitrates out of the tank, I am considering getting a small amount of chaeto aglae and create a ball at the back of the tank. I had to put water in my tank from evaporation and only had tap water, which put enough phosphates in to start unwanted algae. now I keep r/o freshwater on hand for evaporation purposes and water changes (easier to mix saltwater than to buy it pre-made with my tank being so small)

still no fish. the most starfish pieces i've seen at one time now is 7, and I still have those little jellyfish like things. they are actually getting bigger and becoming more in number. not big enough to take a pic, and i still have to take one to the lfs to find out for sure what they are.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I have no idea, but I have seen them before and heard this question asked on many occasions. They do look exactly like small jellies. In my second hand experience, they generally die off over the course of a few months.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

whatever they are, I think they ate some of my copepods. we'll see how much longer they last.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

ok, call me crazy, but I turned on my light today and i noticed 2 teeny tiny thigns swimming around...they have eyes, look like lil baby fish til they move a tail like thing that seems to be kinda tucked under them. I find it odd that i'm seeing them now, muchless any new creature other than the ones I put in since I haven't put any corals or rocks in that would be carrying these creatures.


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## sharkie chomp (Sep 26, 2009)

Been awhile since I've been in here so, here's what's new.

Tank was coming along nicely and then I switched my work hours and rotation going to the graveyard shift, and never had time to mess with the tank as much as it needed it being as small as it is. So, I've decided to upgrade to a 20-30 gal. tank where I'll get a little more leeway on my time. I still want to keep the filtration as natural as possible. I'm thinking of getting one of those Bak-pak filter/protein skimmers and put chaeto, live rock, and a light on top of it to help with this. here is the website http://wwwcpraquatic.com/products/bakpaks.html


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