# Stock Wishlist for a 180 FOWLR tank



## uksub (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi Chaps
I'm still very very newbie to marine fish...So please bare with me!
I have just acquired a 180 g set up with 30 g sump, skimmer, Fluval canister filter...
I've not set it up yet, but I'm hoping to go with 300lbs of sand and 300lbs of LR.
Stock:
2 Volitan Lions,
1 Clown Triggerfish
2 Eels (Snowflake and a Zebra or Golden)
1 Emperor Angelfish
Can anyone out there advise me on my stocklist? Is this too much for a 180? and will they kill each other?
I'm starting out from nothing, so any ideas / advice on the proposed set up and inhabitants would be gratefully received.
I'm thinking the Trigger my be a problem, am I right??
Also, I've looked at various web articles on the internet for background on husbandry for the specimens on my wishlist, but I've not found any mention of probable lifespan, can anyone tell me about growth rate and lifespan of these fish??
Thanks in advance....


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

I've zero experience w/ s/w but wanted to say welcome to the forum!
Looking forward to following along w/ your progress


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

uksub said:


> Hi Chaps
> I have just acquired a 180 g set up with 30 g sump, skimmer, Fluval canister filter...
> I've not set it up yet, but I'm hoping to go with 300lbs of sand and 300lbs of LR.
> Stock:
> ...


I think you have a very reasonable plan. The fish should do fine together, provided you add them to the tank in the proper order. All of the fish you mention are beginner to moderate level of difficulty, with the exception of the Zebra and Golden Eels, which you should avoid.

I would suggest you add the Snowflake Eel and both Volitan Lions initially. Wait 2 or 3 months and then add the Emperor Angelfish and Clown Trigger at the same time. Both of these fish will become very territorial and will make it very difficult to add additional fish. However, the remainder of your livestock should be ok, provided it is introduced first.

Which brings us to this question.... What fish options will you put into the tank to replace the 2nd Eel which I forbid you from purchasing? ;-) After we pick this fish, we still need to discuss diet and proper feeding. Don't let us forget to get back to this topic.

By the way, what brand and model is your skimmer?


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## uksub (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks for the input Pasfur, so the Trigger will not give the Lions a hard time? That's reassuring, the Trigger is a spectacular fish, but I heard so much negative press about it's aggressive nature...As to the other Eel, is their another Eel that you or anyone else on here could suggest? Or another compatible fish, possibly a Wrasse?
Also will I encounter problems with algy, as I understand my cleaning crew will be restricted to turbo snails!
As to feeding, I was thinking frozen shrimp, silverside, would I need, or would it be benificial to load the frozen food with suplements? Also I was planning on having a small tank of breeding Molleys converted to salt water to use as feeders to be used as suplements...Is this doable?
Thanks again for the input...


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## uksub (Dec 1, 2008)

BTW
The skimmer is a coralife 220


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## uksub (Dec 1, 2008)

The guy I brought the setup from also gave me a home made skimmer which, apparently, works very well.....Would it be beneficial to water quality to plumb both up??


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## Kellsindell (Sep 15, 2008)

Do you have any pics of the DIY skimmer? i don't recommend the corallife, they have a bad reputation of being bad. I'd get something like an aquaC or an Euro-reef.


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## uksub (Dec 1, 2008)

I don't have any pics of the home made skimmer....
I'm still very new to the hobby, can anyone tell me what the benefits or shortcomings would be if I was to use both skimmers and the Fluval canister filter on my new setup??
Thanks


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

uksub said:


> Thanks for the input Pasfur, so the Trigger will not give the Lions a hard time? That's reassuring, the Trigger is a spectacular fish, but I heard so much negative press about it's aggressive nature...As to the other Eel, is their another Eel that you or anyone else on here could suggest? Or another compatible fish, possibly a Wrasse?
> Also will I encounter problems with algy, as I understand my cleaning crew will be restricted to turbo snails!
> As to feeding, I was thinking frozen shrimp, silverside, would I need, or would it be benificial to load the frozen food with suplements? Also I was planning on having a small tank of breeding Molleys converted to salt water to use as feeders to be used as suplements...Is this doable?
> Thanks again for the input...


Any time you a mixing fish together, especially fish which are territorial to begin with, you are taking some degree of risk. However, in my experience, i would personally feel comfortable with the selections you name. Although you are correct, the Clown Trigger has the potential to be a dominate fish in ANY aquarium. At the same time, never discount the aggressive tendencies of large Angelfish species.

I would not use any cleaning crew. The Trigger will just flip the snails over and eat their out of the shells. YOU are the cleaning crew! In fish only setups such as this one, with large invert-dangerous species, the benefits of a deep sand bed are much more difficult to attain. In reality, you will want a slightly larger grain size... and much more water movement on the bottom of the aquarium. The goal is to aggressively utilize mechanical filtration and not allow debris to settle on the substrate.

Finally, I would never feed mollies to saltwater fish. More on this tonight. Sorry my time keeps getting cut short, I had to watch the soon to be NCAA national champions Louisville Cardinals dismantle Rutgers last night.


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## uksub (Dec 1, 2008)

I was hoping to try and keep at least some sort of cleaning crew, as I can see it might get quite a lot of crap floating about when the specimens get to adult size, would that not be quite time consuming / difficult to keep clean? Also would that amount of wast have any impact on promotion of algy growth?
Out of my preferred stock list are all of the choices going to eat my cleaning crew?
2 Volitan Lions,
1 Clown Triggerfish
2 Eels (Snowflake and a Zebra or Golden)
1 Emperor Angelfish
Or would I be OK with a cleaning crew with everything except the Trigger?
Thanks again for your input...


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Just about everything on that list will eat the cleaning crew.

Here is something most people don't realize. When you think about waste, most FW hobbyists have this picture of large chunks floating about. You really don't get this in saltwater. You do get some solid waste, but the large large majority of waste excreted by the fish is in liquid form. It is nothing like FW, where you see fish swimming about with long strands of waste about to be released.

The other issue is that saltwater is very dense. Most waste floats and is easily removed by mechanical filtration. You have absolutely no concerns not having a clean up crew in a fish only aquaruim. In fact, you would be better to NOT have a clean up crew, due to their sensitivity to medications (if needed in the future).

On the subject of feeding. Diet is one of the most overlooked aspects of the marine hobby. It is CRITICAL that you match the dietary needs of your fish correctly. Freshwater fish are not easily digested by marine predators and are not a healthy diet. They should almost never be used. You want to feed foods prepared for large marine fish. There are many frozen foods and dried foods which fit this need.

It is also very important to give a huge variety to your Angelfish. I would feed Angel Formula, Formula One, Formula Two, and Garlic pellets as part of my rotation. I would also include FROZEN Krill, Silversides, and Brine Shrimp. ( I am fearful of Freeze Dried Krill and would suggest you avoid it.)

Your Lion Fish can be tamed onto dried foods with just a little effort. You want to use a manmade feeding stick and silversides to entice the Lionfish to eat. It may take 5 to 7 days of trying this technique, but the always get hungry and always give in. After a few weeks they will eat flake food if you want.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

Pasfur said:


> You have absolutely no concerns not having a clean up crew in a fish only aquaruim. In fact, you would be better to NOT have a clean up crew, due to their sensitivity to medications (if needed in the future).


i agree with everything but this, dosing meds in the tank will leech into the live rock and/or silicone seal of the perfectly fine 180 tank. if you do this the tank/rock will basically be shot for becoming a reef tank.

your best bet is to remove the sick fish to a hospital tank and medicate there.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

onefish2fish said:


> i agree with everything but this, dosing meds in the tank will leech into the live rock and/or silicone seal of the perfectly fine 180 tank. if you do this the tank/rock will basically be shot for becoming a reef tank.
> 
> your best bet is to remove the sick fish to a hospital tank and medicate there.


I agree with this point. Worth noting. If you have any interest long term in doing a reef tank, then you would want to keep certain considerations in mind. There are a TON of concerns that you should be aware of from day one.

For the record... silicone? OF2F... how high do you consider this risk? It would make the idea of buying a used aquarium a considerable risk.

In any case, you would have several treatment options available in a FOWLR that are not available in a reef. Most important, raising the temperature and lowering the salinity, both of which have little long term impact on live rock. However, these are certainly not "medications". Touche!


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

well ive been told copper based meds leach into the seal and make it hard if not impossible keeping inverts. 
ive always bought used tanks and havnt had a problem, maybe i was lucky, maybe its just a precaution thing.

anyways if i was setting up a new tank that was a 40 breeder or something along those lines i would prob. buy a new one anyways. the glass wouldnt be scratched and you wouldnt have to worry about this issue. A 40 breeder new would be one of the cheaper things on the list for building a reef tank :roll:


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