# Uncured Live Rock...HELP!



## SaltwaterFishGirl (Mar 24, 2009)

Added about 16 lbs of uncured live rock on Saturday (from LFS) to 75 gallon fish only tank. Tank has been set up for about 2 months and had 8 lbs of live rock in it before added the 16 lbs. Damsel is taking the stress of the second cycle fine, but mated pair of ocellaris are not doing well. Ick...stressed...one has already died and I fear the other one is on the way...what to do???


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## conger (Feb 2, 2008)

large water change to dilute the ammonia and/or nitrites, and repeated water changes to keep the levels down until the cycle finishes (which would require constant testing, so you know when the levels rise and when you need to change the water).

Bottom line, that's the risk you run when you cycle a tank with fish in it... they get stressed, and may very well perish.

Also, it surprised me to see that you only had 8 lbs of live rock (now 24) in a 75 gallon tank. Ideally, you should have 75-150 lbs of liverock, though I understand that it can be expensive and perhaps you are pacing yourself to go easy on the wallet :-D. However, doing so means you will re-cycle the tank with each addition (especially with uncured liverock), thus repeatedly stressing your fish. I would suggest not adding any more livestock until you have all the rock in your tank that you plan to have, and it completes its cycle.


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## conger (Feb 2, 2008)

Also, if you've got a quarantine tank or a hospital tank, you might move your fish there and medicate them, or even just get them out of the cycling tank until the cycle completes. Just another suggestion!


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## SaltwaterFishGirl (Mar 24, 2009)

Thank you so much for the response! I was thinking of removing the fish and putting in quarantine tank (have one set up). 

What would you recommend to medicate the fish with? Copper...formulin...Metradiazole??? 
Can they go directly back into the regular tank once their treatment is done AND the tank has cycled (for the second time :roll? 
Also, to understand a little more about how these things work...why did the second cycle from the live rock cause them to get ick??

Also, just trying to be gentle on the wallet, as live rock from LFS is $9.00 a lb so you are right as to why there isn't 'enough' live rock in the tank as of right now.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, got that off my chest.

Don't do ANYTHING yet. DEFINITELY do not take the fish out of that tank yet. The very nature of your questions makes it very clear that there are some knowledge gaps we need to walk threw. I am afraid Conger may have taken for granted some things that would not be obvious to you. Maybe not, but maybe so. Lets be safe rather than sorry later. Fair enough?

For starters, you said the 75 gallon tank is cycled. This is a very "freshwater" ideal that will get you into some serious trouble quick, as you found out. First, lets get the full specs of this tank AND the quarantine tank. How long have they been set up? Exactly what type of filtration? What water parameters are you testing for and what are the results? Also, talk more about the 16 pounds of live rock you just purchased. How long was it at the LFS? Does it stink? What colors are on the rock? Any idea where it is from? (Fiji, Carribean, Tonga, etc.)


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## conger (Feb 2, 2008)

Pasfur is absolutely right, the questions he posed are very important... I just wanted to give you a quick-hitter response (browsing the forum from work... tsk tsk!).




SaltwaterFishGirl said:


> Also, to understand a little more about how these things work...why did the second cycle from the live rock cause them to get ick??



I actually don't know the reason for certain, though what follows is what my intuition tells me... take it with a grain of salt! :-D I am pretty sure that a stressed fish has a weakened immune system, thus is not able to fight off bad things as well as a completely healthy and happy fish. As far as why ich would pop up, my GUESS would be that some ich parasites or spores may exist in a tank, but are not able to get a good grip on healthy fish... when their immune system is compromised (because of stress or other factors), the ich can take hold and proceed through its lifecycle. Perhaps some of the uncured live rock had some ich "spores" or whatever the proper word is, and they infected the weakened fish (?)

Again, just guesses here, but it might at least be on the right track if nothing else...


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

you must be talking about cured rock for $9/pound. 

you said you got uncured rock which should be cheap. infact you can find it online cheaper then your store so i suggest looking there. 

anyways, i agree with pasfur, must know more about your set-up to help. 
welcome to the forum.


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## Kellsindell (Sep 15, 2008)

Welcom to the forum!
How long have you had the fish in the tank? 

The reason you get ich isn't because it just happened, it's something that's introduced into the tank. A tank without ich will not get ich, but a tank without ich that has a fish introduced into the tank and has ich, now has ich. IMHO, you may have got some LR that had some ich living in it temporarily, though that's just a guess. Generaly this parisite will come from the sand or the fish or both, but i guess it could be possible that it came in through the rock... not sure, but i'm going to venture and say it was on the fish.

how long did you quarantine the fish before you added them to the tank? you should wait 3-4wks. i know that seems like really long time(and it is) but ich can not show up until the 3rd week or more, which is why we quarantine for so long. 

Further answering of the questions asked will give great insight as to the issue though.

Also, Onefish is right, if you are paying that much for uncured LR, then you're getting jipped and are better off getting base rock (which will run your about $2 per lb) or look for a club in your area and see if you can find a better deal there.


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## SaltwaterFishGirl (Mar 24, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> For starters, you said the 75 gallon tank is cycled. This is a very "freshwater" ideal that will get you into some serious trouble quick, as you found out. First, lets get the full specs of this tank AND the quarantine tank. How long have they been set up? Exactly what type of filtration? What water parameters are you testing for and what are the results? Also, talk more about the 16 pounds of live rock you just purchased. How long was it at the LFS? Does it stink? What colors are on the rock? Any idea where it is from? (Fiji, Carribean, Tonga, etc.)


How long have they been set up?
--75 gallon has been set up since late January of this year (around the 20th)
--Just set up quarantine tank on Sunday because of the live rock issue

Exactly what type of filtration?
--Sump (wet/dry)
--Bio balls...and protein skimmer

What water parameters are you testing for and what are the results?
-- Until this past Sunday, the Ammonia had been at 0 (it's at .25 now)
--Nitrites 0 (but will probably go up once ammonia goes down)
--Nitrates fluctuate from 15-40 (I don't understand this either!)
--Ph 8.0 to 8.3 -- Kh 9 drops to change color (it was around 7.7 so added akalinity/ph buffers to get this number up)
--Salinity is around 1.023
--Temp steady at 80 F
(I think this is all!!!)

16 lbs of Live Rock:
Don't know how long it was at the store. The person we buy from is a 'friend', so I guess we trust(ed) him. I would say that I do remember him saying something about the fact that he "just got it in". Yes the live rock does stink...and I should have let that be a red flag not to put it in the tank...but I didn't follow my gut and trusted the LFS guy. 

Colors on the rock are a jade green...some majenta...dark browns/blacks. It's very pretty live rock in my opinion. Indo-pacific is maybe where it came from...I know it's not Figi or Tonga...

Yes...this live rock was sold to me at $9.00 a pound...the guy at LFS never said it wasn't cycled but I just assumed it was because of the price and because he knew we were putting the rock into our established tank. Who knows??? 

Hope this helps!!!

As far as the ICK....what do I do with this fish who still has white bumps all over him (THAT NEVER SEEM TO BUST LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO according to numerous articles regarding Ick)? 

Should I just replace all water in the tank? :shock:


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

your nitrites are coming from your bio balls. when you get more live rock remove them, they are just traping debris and detritus causing excess nutrient buildup ( like nitrates ) 

do not replace all the water in your tank as that would be complete shock, however a small scale water change would be a good idea. i would do 10 gallons just make sure you pre-mix the water atleast 24 hours in advance with RO/DI water. 

what brand/model protien skimmer?


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## SaltwaterFishGirl (Mar 24, 2009)

onefish2fish said:


> your nitrites are coming from your bio balls. when you get more live rock remove them, they are just traping debris and detritus causing excess nutrient buildup ( like nitrates )
> 
> do not replace all the water in your tank as that would be complete shock, however a small scale water change would be a good idea. i would do 10 gallons just make sure you pre-mix the water atleast 24 hours in advance with RO/DI water.
> 
> what brand/model protien skimmer?


Well...this tank is the combination of my and my boyfriend's equipment. I had an Octopus skimmer...he had one that came with his sump. The Octopus wouldn't fit into his sump due to size, but we have decided to use my sump (larger) and the Octopus. The sump is being drilled now...so once we get that back we'll be using the Octopus and maybe even throw his skimmer in there too for good measure!

I'll inform him about the bio balls...is this just newer technology or information to NOT use them? I thought they were great to use???

We've also done a 10 gallon RO/DI water change (purchasing water from LFS right now but plan on buying our own RO maker). The water change didn't seem to make a dent...but it was just done yesterday.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

There is so much to talk about on this thread.

Lets break it down. First, what type of Protein Skimmer. This is the most important piece of equipment and will determine your long term success.

2) Your bioballs are a long term problem and are causing your Nitrate spikes. You need to continue adding additional live rock and remove the biomedia slowly over time.

3) You need to read, read, and read some more on understanding pH, alkalinity, and calcium. All 3 of these need to be tested on a regular basis and adjustments made as appropriate. You can NOT generalize this concept. You need to know EXACTLY what you are adding, what it does, and what you are trying to accomplish. I keep alkalinity at 10-12 DKH, calcium at 420 - 460ppm, and pH at 8.2 to 8.4. I add Kent Marine liquid calcium and Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH when appropriate when calcium is low, or when alkalintiy and calcium are both low. In situations where calcium is correct but alkalinity is low, a water change is necessary to correct the situation. Read, read read, read, read. Start here: Chemistry and the Aquarium - You will not understand this article. Read it again. And again. Then find other articles on the subject until you know enough to understand how to adjust. This is the most important aspect of marine aquarium care, in my humble opinion.

4) Your Q tank has not been established long enough to use as a hospital tank. I suggest removing the live rock you just purchased, placing it into a storage tote full of saltwater, adding a power head, and CURING the live rock in this tote. After the ammonia and nitrite fall to ZERO in your live rock curing container, then you can add it back to your tank. This practice should be followed for future live rock additions exceeding 10% of your current live rock supply, or any time the live rock purchase of any quantity has a noticable odor.

5) Lower your salinity to 1.013 and raise the temperature to 84F. Begin feeding a garlic enhanced food daily. Continue this for at least 30 days AFTER the spots are gone. Then raise the salinity SLOWLY back to 1.024. I would also suggest that you add a UV Sterilzer to your setup. You can find hang on models at Aquarium Supplies, Pet Supplies and Pond Supplies by That Fish Place - That Pet Place for an affordable price. WARNING: Do not add any other livestock to your tank until the ich is gone for 90 days. Yes, I said 90 days. TRUST ME on this.


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## SaltwaterFishGirl (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks for the information...lots to read here. 

How important are Calcium levels if you aren't going to have corals/anemones? This tank will be fish only with live rock. 

We will be using an Octopus skimmer once the larger sump gets drilled. ETA is supposed to be this weekend, and then we can add that to the tank. We are using a smaller protein skimmer right now. 

Added a UV sterilizer over the weekend and I must say that our tank has never been clearer...although we do have lots of cynobacterium growing. Will remove as much as possible with next good tank cleaning/water change. 

I don't think I am going to remove the live rock unless it's an absolute must! Fish are still surviving...damsel has no signs of ick...only the clown has the ick...but I thought that clowns couldn't do hyposalinity??? Please advise!!!


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