# Spiky red parasite(?) on anus of black neon tetra



## Ami (May 27, 2011)

1. Size of tank?
55G

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia?
0
b. Nitrite?
0
c. Nitrate?
1 ppm
d. pH, KH and GH?
pH 7.2, GH 120 ppm
e. Test kit?
Mardel test strips

3. Temperature?
78F

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? 
FW

5. How long the aquarium has been set up?
July, 2011

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are 
they? How long have you had them?
Black neon tetras (5), neon tetras (12), harlequin rasboras (9), glowlight tetras (2), spotted corycats (6), German Blue ram (1, male)
Except for the GBR (which I added last December), I've had all the fish since July / August, 2011. Initially I added 2 male GBRs and then 1 female GBR in January. The dominant male killed off the females after courting for a while. Then it really beat on the other male. So I gave that one away. However, the remaining male lost color really quick and is a pale comarison to what it used to be...even after 2 months.

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first 
batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the 
inhabitants)?
No

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?
Lots of live plants. Anubias, anacharis, hornwort, various cryptocorynes, java fern, java moss, aponogetons, tiger lily, dwarf hairgrass and moneywort.
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?
gravel
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?
2 pieces of driftwood. small place to hide under one of the driftwood, but no hollow decor.

9. a. Filtration?
Aquaclear 200 and Hydrosponge IV
b. Heater?
120W heater

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?
8 hours, three 15W GE full psectrum tubes
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long?
No sunlight

11. a. Water change schedule?
b. Volume of water changed?
15 gallons every week.
c. Well water, tap water, RO water?
9 gallons of 15 gallons is distilled water, rest tap water
d. Water conditioner used?
Yes. Made by Aqueon.
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?
Usually I get to vacuum about a third of the tank everytime I change the water.

12. Foods? Aqueon tropical flakes and sinking pellets
How often are they fed? 2 times a day, sometimes thrice

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
One of the black neon tetras has two thin red spikes in its anus. If you don't look very carefully, you'd think it was poop. Its like a very fine worm, but doesn't move.
The last time it happened (last week to another black neon terta), the number of spikes started to increase, kinda like a bunch of pins with the pointy side outward. Eventually, there were 2 holes on each side of the anal fin, the size of its eyes ! I euathanized it.
b. Appearance of poop? not sure
c. Appearance of gills? OK

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? No
b. What meds were used? N/A

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if 
necessary


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Thats very characteristic of camallanus worms. Treating is more difficult then most diseases. Your likely going to need to get either a bird wormer or dog wormer with either levamisole or fenbendazole. I use levamisole and treat most my fish with it in quarantine as just a precautionary treatment. This is the kinda disease that doesn't normally show up till the parasite load is very heavy. Best I can suggest is to get Harka verm bird dewormer and use that as it contains just levamisole . Fenbendazole is a common dog dewormer but I've never used it so can't offer much help there. For the harka verm the dosage is 1.25mL per 10 gallons. 

If you choose to go with levamisole this link will help you with proper treatment. 

Other then that I would highly recommend a quarantine tank for any future purchases. Unfortunately this is a very hard disease to quarantine for. I've dealt with it twice and the one time it went through quarantine undetected. Most fish look and behave fine until the parasite load becomes very heavy. Its such a hassle to deal with its the #1 specific disease I treat all new fish for, even though its not very common. Treatment is pretty easy and quick if you have meds on hand. Levamisole is also a very soft med on the fish and really effective against the worms.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

Thanks Mikaila !
A few questions:
1. Can this worm affect humans as well? That is, is it contagious?
2. Is it better to quarantine the fish and treat it only, or is it better to treat the whole tank at this point?

I've got a 10G...its time I set it up as a quarantine tank.


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## Philnominal (Dec 22, 2011)

Mikaila31 said:


> For the harka verm the dosage is 1.25mL per 10 gallons.
> 
> If you choose to go with levamisole this link will help you with proper treatment.


Dosage


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

1. The worm cannot infect humans. It is pretty specific to fish. There are a number of different species of camallanus worms and some are even restricted to certain types of fish. 

2. You will need to treat the entire main tank till they are clear of the worms. Its too difficult if not impossible to tell if a fish is infected until the parasite load becomes heavy enough to effect behavior. They don't always stick out the anus, but if they do a healthy fish could of been infected for months prior to that point. Levamisole I know will not harm live plants, shrimp, or bacteria. 

As far as the link I posted I used that to figure out the dosage for the bird dewormer quite awhile back. I personally have never used the bird dewormer but I have had success reported with it. The stuff I use is a pig dewormer in powder form. Its a bit more complicated to use then the liquid as I use a very small scale to measure the .10 gram per 10 gallon. Any pharmacy should give you free plastic mL syringes to use for the liquid. The active ingredient is the same and thats what matters. If you want to use one of the other medications the link lists I can help you figure out the proper dosage if you need it. Some of those you may likely be able to find at farm supply stores. 

The main thing to note is how the medication works and the link explains that very well. Its only a 24 hour treatment which is very short, but its very important you clean the tank and filter well and change as much water as possible after treatment. Then repeat treatment at the recommend intervals. 

If you also want to be certain the med works when you use it you can put the one confirmed neon in a bag with treatment water and just float him in the main tank for 24 hours. The plastic bag makes it easy to see if the worms were passed out. Its what I do with fish I suspect of being infected. A confirmed result/the med being effective against it then I would treat the whole tank confidently.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

Thanks Mikaila !
I'll go over to one of the farm stores and see which one I can get my hands on. The link you sent has an extensive list of drugs to look for. Fortunately I live in Nebraska, so finding farm stores shouldn't be a problem. Also, I'm studying at the University over here...so I have access to sone really good scales to weigh very small masses if necessary. I'll look for a liquid though. 

If the treatment works with the black neon, I'll certainly treat the whole tank. Perhaps it'll help the GBR color up as well. To clean out my filters after the treatment, is it sufficient to wash them thoroughly in water? Is a 60% water change sufficient to clean the tank?

By the way, I saw a video of your tank. I noticed that there are some floating leaves...are they from a Maple or oak? How often do you have to change them? I got some pin-oak leaves blowing around....was wondering if I could throw them in. Would a good washing be sufficient?


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Rinse the filters in fresh dechlorinated tap water. I normally change 90% or so if there is a confirmed infection. You can break that up into two 60% changes if you want a day apart. Usually I just drain the tank till there is just enough water for the fish to swim then refill it a little slower then normal. Your GBR is the only fish that may not like that though. I normally do 50% water changes a week so most my fish don't mind the really big changes.

If you end up with a powder thats when I would just treat all incoming fish with it. I bought a powder years ago when I got my first fish with this parasite and its gonna be more then you will ever need, think I paid $20 for 18 grams. I mainly treat them all because I have it on hand, I'm not gonna run out, its quick, and its much less of a hassle then dealing with a larger tank and more infected fish later.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

Mikaila31 said:


> Rinse the filters in fresh dechlorinated tap water. I normally change 90% or so if there is a confirmed infection. You can break that up into two 60% changes if you want a day apart. Usually I just drain the tank till there is just enough water for the fish to swim then refill it a little slower then normal. Your GBR is the only fish that may not like that though. I normally do 50% water changes a week so most my fish don't mind the really big changes.
> 
> If you end up with a powder thats when I would just treat all incoming fish with it. I bought a powder years ago when I got my first fish with this parasite and its gonna be more then you will ever need, think I paid $20 for 18 grams. I mainly treat them all because I have it on hand, I'm not gonna run out, its quick, and its much less of a hassle then dealing with a larger tank and more infected fish later.


 I'll post on this thread how things go along. From now on I'll treat all new fish with this stuff as well. I was under the impression that if new fish fare well for a week, there's nothing to worry about =0)

By the way, few of my Harlequin rasboras seem to be pregnant all the time...is it possible they have dropsy? They're so small that I can't tell by the scales. They're shiny, active and eat all right. So I might just be too worried


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

By the way, do I need to take out the activated carbon insert from my Aquaclear 200 like with other medications?


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

Never mind...I just noticed that I need to remove the carbon insert.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

For most diseases its safe to rule them out after two weeks. Internal parasites can go unnoticed for months though. The other reason they are such a PITA is there can be absolutely no external or behavioral signs or the signs are irregular. Below is angelfish I bought through a local club at the end of last year. This fish and his 2 buddies had camallanus. Unfortunately this is also when I was lax with quarantining and treating preventatively. For years I excluded locally bred fish I got from other hobbyists from quarantine, since they were always in the best of health. 









The picture is from a week after I had gotten it. I was starting to suspect something after he would not eat for a few weeks. Yet one of his buddies was eating everything and all the fish seemed to stay in good body weight. I didn't expect anything seriously wrong with him till he suddenly died 5 weeks after I had gotten him. He was swimming around then dead 5 minuets later. When the host dies the parasites try to make a break for it in the hopes of getting eaten by a scavenging fish, so realizing the issue after he died was pretty easy. Both the other angels also had the worms, though at much lower levels. However none of them behaved the same. 

I am also in uni. I used my one of my schools microscopes to take a video which is on youtube if you are interested (search camallanus). I left the dead fish with one of my professors cuz they thought it was really cool :| . I wasn't upset about the fish being dead since it was really cheap, it was the 30 other fish that I ended up having to treat.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

OK, so I finally went to the local Tractor Supply Company. Unfortunately the only Levimasole they has was an ointment for horses. However, they did have Fenbendazole in liquid & powder form. Does anyone have experience with Fenbendazole?
Also, the only bird dewormer they had was a liquid with active ingredient called dichloropiperazine...does anyone have experience with this stuff?

Thanks,
Ami


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Ami said:


> OK, so I finally went to the local Tractor Supply Company. Unfortunately the only Levimasole they has was an ointment for horses. However, they did have Fenbendazole in liquid & powder form. Does anyone have experience with Fenbendazole?
> Also, the only bird dewormer they had was a liquid with active ingredient called dichloropiperazine...does anyone have experience with this stuff?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ami


I'm getting ready to treat some fish I have for nematodes of some sort by using fenbendazole. I plan to use the 1 gram safeguard dog wormer packets and diluting it down. It's my understanding that fenbendazole can't be dissolved in water, so I planned to dissolve my powder packets in a small amount of acetone (sounds bad, but is quite safe for fish) and then mixing that with water to get the meds into suspension. If you have access to a liquid, then that might be easier to work with, but try to find out what the "inactive" ingredients are, they are the ones you have to worry about being safe with the fish. That's why I'm using safeguard, the inactive ingredients are apparently safe for fish since many people have used it. 

I planned to treat my tank water with 2ppm of fenbendazole. A 1g packet of safeguard contains 22% fenbendazole (220mg) and will treat 110 liters (29 gallons) of water to 2ppm. To dilute it, I planned to dissolve my powder into 29oz of tank water. This would make a solution whereby 1oz of solution will dose 1 gallon of water to 2ppm. Therefore, to dose a 10 gallon tank, I'd pour in 10 oz of my solution; a 20 gallon tank would take 20oz of solution. I planned to use some of the treated tank water to soak some dried bloodworms in so that the fish would get some medicine internally.

I'm picking up my meds today, I'll let you know how it goes when I treat some fish. I have some wild caught mosquitofish that will be getting the first dose just to be sure I got things right, but I'm fairly sure of my calculations. I might do them tonight.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

afremont said:


> I'm getting ready to treat some fish I have for nematodes of some sort by using fenbendazole. I plan to use the 1 gram safeguard dog wormer packets and diluting it down. It's my understanding that fenbendazole can't be dissolved in water, so I planned to dissolve my powder packets in a small amount of acetone (sounds bad, but is quite safe for fish) and then mixing that with water to get the meds into suspension. If you have access to a liquid, then that might be easier to work with, but try to find out what the "inactive" ingredients are, they are the ones you have to worry about being safe with the fish. That's why I'm using safeguard, the inactive ingredients are apparently safe for fish since many people have used it.
> 
> I planned to treat my tank water with 2ppm of fenbendazole. A 1g packet of safeguard contains 22% fenbendazole (220mg) and will treat 110 liters (29 gallons) of water to 2ppm. To dilute it, I planned to dissolve my powder into 29oz of tank water. This would make a solution whereby 1oz of solution will dose 1 gallon of water to 2ppm. Therefore, to dose a 10 gallon tank, I'd pour in 10 oz of my solution; a 20 gallon tank would take 20oz of solution. I planned to use some of the treated tank water to soak some dried bloodworms in so that the fish would get some medicine internally.
> 
> I'm picking up my meds today, I'll let you know how it goes when I treat some fish. I have some wild caught mosquitofish that will be getting the first dose just to be sure I got things right, but I'm fairly sure of my calculations. I might do them tonight.


 Thanks ! I'll follow this post.


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Ok, here's an update. I dosed the first set of fish yesterday at noon so it's been a little over 24 hours now. I dosed the DGs instead of the mosquitofish. The acetone was a bust, it didn't dissolve fenbendazole any better than water does. Still I shook it up really well and poured in the amount for the tank. Some crumbs settled out on the bottom and on decorations, but allot of stuff went into suspension in the water and clouded it up a little. I was pretty concerned about the stuff settling out, but after a few hours the crumbs slowly disappeared. So I guess the meds do appear to dissolve given enough time and water. I'm feeding them dried food to force them to swallow a little tank water with it. Can't really see anything different in the fish, but I'll know when I get a "sample" from them in a day or two. As long as I don't see any living worms, I'll consider it a success. The fish seem unaffected and are acting completely normal so far.

For the next batch of medicine, I'm going to try a different solvent.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

afremont said:


> Ok, here's an update. I dosed the first set of fish yesterday at noon so it's been a little over 24 hours now. I dosed the DGs instead of the mosquitofish. The acetone was a bust, it didn't dissolve fenbendazole any better than water does. Still I shook it up really well and poured in the amount for the tank. Some crumbs settled out on the bottom and on decorations, but allot of stuff went into suspension in the water and clouded it up a little. I was pretty concerned about the stuff settling out, but after a few hours the crumbs slowly disappeared. So I guess the meds do appear to dissolve given enough time and water. I'm feeding them dried food to force them to swallow a little tank water with it. Can't really see anything different in the fish, but I'll know when I get a "sample" from them in a day or two. As long as I don't see any living worms, I'll consider it a success. The fish seem unaffected and are acting completely normal so far.
> 
> For the next batch of medicine, I'm going to try a different solvent.


 Thanks for the update.
I found a dealer on e-bay that sells Levamisole HCl Powder. I got 10g for $15 and he gives free shipping. Hopefully it'll arrive by Wednesday and I can start the treatment on my 55G.

Cheerio,
Ami


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Ami said:


> Thanks for the update.
> I found a dealer on e-bay that sells Levamisole HCl Powder. I got 10g for $15 and he gives free shipping. Hopefully it'll arrive by Wednesday and I can start the treatment on my 55G.
> 
> Cheerio,
> Ami


Levamisole is soluble in water so you should have no trouble with that. Maybe I should have gone the levamisole route, but I couldn't find any locally; plus, it's just going to get harder to find in the future, so may as well find an alternative now. 

I found the solvent I needed today. It's DMSO and I was actually able to go in and buy it off the shelf at a hardware/farm store. I put the packet of wormer into a small jar and added 1 tablespoon of DMSO. Some of the material dissolved instantly, but allot of larger crumbs were still left intact. Since the MSDS for fenbendazole says that it is "freely soluble" in DMSO, I assume that the stuff that didn't dissolve right away was some of the "filler" material that makes up 78% of what's in a pack. I added some water and most of the other stuff dissolved then so I feel that the medicine anyway is suspended in the water now which was the whole point; I don't care about the filler but it would be more comforting to see everything dissolved.

I dosed two tanks and they got way cloudy, more so than the first tank. Plus there weren't as many crumbs, so I guess the DMSO did its job. It's only been about an hour now, but the fish are still acting ok.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Let us know how that ebay stuff works. It looks kinda sketchy to me. If it really is levamisole its defiantly not very pure. His suggested doseage is also 0.8 grams which is 8 times more then mine. Another thing is my stuff is 90% levamisole HCL and its yellow not white. 

Levamisole is hard to find, I have been using it for years though and it is such a fast and effective medication that it is worth it to me. The stuff I have and still used expired back in 11/09 it still effectively treated those angelfish about 6 months ago. I've kept it in a very small glass jar in the dark and intend to keep using it till I know it no longer works or a good deal on levamisole pops up.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

Mikaila31 said:


> Let us know how that ebay stuff works. It looks kinda sketchy to me. If it really is levamisole its defiantly not very pure. His suggested doseage is also 0.8 grams which is 8 times more then mine. Another thing is my stuff is 90% levamisole HCL and its yellow not white.
> 
> Levamisole is hard to find, I have been using it for years though and it is such a fast and effective medication that it is worth it to me. The stuff I have and still used expired back in 11/09 it still effectively treated those angelfish about 6 months ago. I've kept it in a very small glass jar in the dark and intend to keep using it till I know it no longer works or a good deal on levamisole pops up.


 My dealer was chrisyang1155 on e-bay. I will definitely give a negative feedback and flag the fella in case its a hoax. You're right, finding levamisole is hard...I'm going to see if I can find a friendly vet  I'd like to stock up on the stuff.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aquabid.com has levamisole in the medicines section. I purchased mine from mvp and would recommend him. Good luck with this. One of my betta girls is fighting off these sttupid worms and sadly, I've already lost two bettas and a platy to them. 

For fenbendazole, it's best to give via medicatted foood so you would need to make up your own medicated pellets or bloodworms. And it's said by some that fenbendazole is only effective on the larva of the worms, not the adults.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

I should be getting my Levamisole HCl today or tomorrow. I need some info:

1. Lighting -- is it enough to just keep the lamps in the hood off, or do I need to keep all my windows closed too? I get some indirect light from a window about 8 feet away from the tank.

2. Water change -- how much will I need to do? My dealer recommends doing almost 100% water change, i.e. just enough room for the fish to swim.

3. Vacuuming gravel -- How bad is it if I can't gravel the whole tank...I got quite a few plants that are rooted into the substrate. I think I will be able to gravel about 20-30% of the substrate. I can pick out the driftwood and clean it, but is it necessary?


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

I've actually always left the tank lights on. I keep the stored stuff in the dark though. 

I agree with the close to 100% change. Just clean best you can. Remember you repeat the treatment in a week then again a few weeks later. IMO 3 treatments is best. You can certainly do more if you want to. I would gravel vac what you can. Do make sure you rinse the filter media out as well. Its a bit more in depth if you actually have infected fish. When I treat new fish its usually just one treatment and I don't clean things as much. The good thing is camallanus is not a very infectious disease. It can certainly spread and wipe out a tank, but it is slow. As always healthy fish have greater resistance to diseases.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

Mikaila31 said:


> I've actually always left the tank lights on. I keep the stored stuff in the dark though.
> 
> I agree with the close to 100% change. Just clean best you can. Remember you repeat the treatment in a week then again a few weeks later. IMO 3 treatments is best. You can certainly do more if you want to. I would gravel vac what you can. Do make sure you rinse the filter media out as well. Its a bit more in depth if you actually have infected fish. When I treat new fish its usually just one treatment and I don't clean things as much. The good thing is camallanus is not a very infectious disease. It can certainly spread and wipe out a tank, but it is slow. As always healthy fish have greater resistance to diseases.


 Thanks. If this batch of med works, I'm ceratainly going to stock up and treat any fish that I get in the future.


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

afremont said:


> I dosed two tanks and they got way cloudy, more so than the first tank. Plus there weren't as many crumbs, so I guess the DMSO did its job. It's only been about an hour now, but the fish are still acting ok.


Update. As of this morning, they weren't looking too chipper, especially two of them. I got worried so I transferred them all to the other tank with 3 unaffected meanish DGs. If you remember, that is the tank I dosed first using water as the solvent, which had little to no effect on the fish. I still have done a 50% water change in that tank just in case.

One has large bumps on his side that I presume to be impacted worms. There were a couple others that had smaller bumps, but they seem to be diminishing. I worry for this one though, I fear he may not make it. I gave him an epsom salt bath this morning trying to get him to poop, but to no avail. He's hanging in there though, still upright and not on his side.

The other has been looking kinda thin lately and clamping his fins just a bit so I knew he was weak. He looks almost dead, but still upright and able to get up and move when he wants. He doesn't have any lumps, but he did pass some stringy white poo earlier today.

Speaking of poop, there was plenty in the tank this morning that looked awfully light colored so I guess most of the others passed their worms ok. I'm shocked as I already treated these fish with parasite guard and Jungle medicated food with praziquantel, metrodazanole and levamisole and yet there were live nematode larva coming out still.

I'm worried about the two fish, but I think the others will recover. They're still really lethargic for the most part, but seem to be perking up. It's odd, I dosed the water to 2ppm as instructed in an expensive fish disease book, yet I feel that it was way too strong of a dose. I truly feel that the fish are being poisoned by the amount of medication in the water. I was already aware that using a dewormer could cause the fish to become impacted when they all let loose and knot up in the intestine. Worms can also die and fail to completely be eliminated which can lead to infection and death as well.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

afremont said:


> Update. As of this morning, they weren't looking too chipper, especially two of them. I got worried so I transferred them all to the other tank with 3 unaffected meanish DGs. If you remember, that is the tank I dosed first using water as the solvent, which had little to no effect on the fish. I still have done a 50% water change in that tank just in case.
> 
> One has large bumps on his side that I presume to be impacted worms. There were a couple others that had smaller bumps, but they seem to be diminishing. I worry for this one though, I fear he may not make it. I gave him an epsom salt bath this morning trying to get him to poop, but to no avail. He's hanging in there though, still upright and not on his side.
> 
> ...


 It may be that the DMSO is not good for the fish. I looked up the MSDS for DMSO. Although its rated as "low ingestion hazard" for humans, it may not be the best for the fish.


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Ami said:


> It may be that the DMSO is not good for the fish. I looked up the MSDS for DMSO. Although its rated as "low ingestion hazard" for humans, it may not be the best for the fish.


I searched out toxicity studies specifically for fish before deciding to use it. One that I found showed the LC50 (concentration required to kill 50% of the fish in a test group) was 30,000-45,000ppm (3-4%) which is about 300 times more than I was using, and the study was for a 96 hour period of exposure. These fish weren't going to make 24 hours from the looks of things. DMSO is far less toxic than acetone which is commonly used as well, I really don't think it's to blame here. I really think the fish were overdosing on the meds, but I used 1 gram of 22% (220mg) of fenbendazole to dose 110 liters of water which is exactly 2ppm(mg/l) of the med. I actually mixed it a little weaker than that.

I did find one story of someone who lost all their fish after 24 hours. I figured maybe they overdosed accidentally, but I'd say I was headed to the same outcome if I left my fish in there. I think maybe I should stick to feeding fenbendazole to the fish from now on, seems to be allot safer. On the other hand, dosing them at maybe at 1/4 to as low as 1/10 what I used might do the trick. The fish didn't freak out right off, it took many hours for the effects to set in. When I went to bed, they were still acting ok and it had been a good 8 hours since I dosed them. But by morning, they were obviously in trouble. 

UPDATE: I intended to post the above stuff yesterday, but I didn't get around to finishing it. This morning finds all five fish still alive. The blue DG with the huge bumps was "sleeping" at the top of the tank as he has done before. He still has bumps, but they're smaller it seems. Still worried about him though. The one that looked closest to death yesterday is swimming around and visiting the surface. I still have the lights off so I can't see them well, but everyone appears to be quite alive.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

afremont said:


> I searched out toxicity studies specifically for fish before deciding to use it. One that I found showed the LC50 (concentration required to kill 50% of the fish in a test group) was 30,000-45,000ppm (3-4%) which is about 300 times more than I was using, and the study was for a 96 hour period of exposure. These fish weren't going to make 24 hours from the looks of things. DMSO is far less toxic than acetone which is commonly used as well, I really don't think it's to blame here. I really think the fish were overdosing on the meds, but I used 1 gram of 22% (220mg) of fenbendazole to dose 110 liters of water which is exactly 2ppm(mg/l) of the med. I actually mixed it a little weaker than that.
> 
> I did find one story of someone who lost all their fish after 24 hours. I figured maybe they overdosed accidentally, but I'd say I was headed to the same outcome if I left my fish in there. I think maybe I should stick to feeding fenbendazole to the fish from now on, seems to be allot safer. On the other hand, dosing them at maybe at 1/4 to as low as 1/10 what I used might do the trick. The fish didn't freak out right off, it took many hours for the effects to set in. When I went to bed, they were still acting ok and it had been a good 8 hours since I dosed them. But by morning, they were obviously in trouble.
> 
> UPDATE: I intended to post the above stuff yesterday, but I didn't get around to finishing it. This morning finds all five fish still alive. The blue DG with the huge bumps was "sleeping" at the top of the tank as he has done before. He still has bumps, but they're smaller it seems. Still worried about him though. The one that looked closest to death yesterday is swimming around and visiting the surface. I still have the lights off so I can't see them well, but everyone appears to be quite alive.


 Thnaks for the info on the solvents...I would have never thought of using DMSO and acetone 
Also, I hope your fish make it.
I got my meds in the mail yesterday eve and got all the distilled water I need (I dilute tap water with distilled water to lower the hardness). I'm gonna put the meds in tomorrow eve when I got time.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

OK folks, so here's my update on the Levamisole-HCl I got from chrisyang1​155 on e-bay

Short version:
This guy ripped me off. I'm hopping mad :evil: I wasted money, a LOT of time and a few of my fish are dead. 
Any idea on exposing this rip off artist on e-bay?

Long version:

Friday evening -- I wasn't sure if the guy wasn't just selling me sugar or salt crystals so I tasted a granule. It had the bite like very dilute HCl, so at lest that was ruled out 
I drained out as much water from my 55 gallons as I could and dosed as recommended on page selling the meds...I've copied and pasted below:

"Very effective treatment *against many internal parasites, especially nematodes*, when used in appropriate dosages. It does not harm the bio-filter, plants, invertebrates or uninfected fish. As an added benefit, it also *boosts the immune system of fish*. Levamisole HCl is highly effective as a treatment against nematode species, but does not work for tapeworms, flatworms or flukes. Quarantine tank treatment with Levamisole HCl prior to placing new wild caught fish into an established community tank is advised. This will both eliminate parasites and boost the immune system of your fish helping them to keep at bay any secondary infections as a result of parasitic damage. 
*Dose about 0.8 gram powder every **10 gallons of water. *Do a *massive water change* before adding the medication. Leave the medication in the tank for *3 days *(72 hours), then do another *massive water change*. Massive water change means as close to 100% as possible. Gravel (if you have any) should also be vacuumed to remove any dead worms.*Repeat the treatment in 3 weeks*, as any leftover dead worms may still have eggs that can reinfect the tank."



By the next morning (Saturday), the water looked a little milky, but I didn't worry about anything. By 5PM the water was REALLY milky....that's when I remembered Mikaila saying that the dosage seems like too much. I wonder if the thieving cretin chrisyang1155 ever used this stuff on his own fish...if he ever kept fish. And also if he knew the difference between gram and milligram.

I could tell the stuff was toxic, because not only was all the fish gasping for air at the water surface but all the sanils were crawling out of the tank. Luckily my 10 gallon planted quarantine tank was up and running so I transferred all the live fish into it. Fortunately all of the transferred fish survived.
I changed as much water as I could again, and the water is still somewhat milky. I'll do a couple more massive changes and then transfer fish back in the 55 gallon.

Pics will be posted in the next post


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

The first picture is about 20 hours after adding the meds...note the gasping fish and the sanils just above waterline. I threw away some snails and kept the rest.

The second picture is after I did a massive water change once.

Normally I have a layer of floating hornwort at the top, but I took it all out when I was cleaning the tank.

Anybody know of someone who sells real Levamisole-HCl ? The two fish that have the worms still have the worms.

Thanks for hearing me out guys.


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Wow, sorry to hear that. Sounds eerily similar to my experience. Did it appear to have a deworming effect on the fish? Did they poop white? Do you happen to know the concentration? .8g sounds like allot of meds for 10 gallons unless it's diluted some. This page recommends 13ppm in the tank:
Treating Your water with Levamisole
.8g of pure levamisole in 10 gallons is a little over 21ppm, about 50% over what the other page recommends.

My fish have somehow miraculously escaped death, including the big blue one with the bumps. He slowly and continuously pooped for several days, bumps going down but now completely away. Then yesterday I happened to look in and saw a 3-4" long piece of white poop hanging from him. I guess he finally cleared the obstruction and the bumps were completely gone. It took all of them until yesterday to recover from their meds, it really smacked them down for a few days. They all seem like they're going to be ok now, they all eat and nobody hides. The big blue one has decided to take over being alpha male now, so I guess he's feeling better. They all act starved, but I'm holding back on the food some for a few days, so they don't gorge themselves and get constipated really bad.


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Somebody showed me this:
Vermisol, 100 Grams
I'm going to order some from them. 

BTW, on my mosquitofish tank, I lost several fish while I concentrated on the DGs. I relocated them all to a 5g tank with some fry and then changed 90% of the water in their tank. I filled it up and put them back and they did just like your fish with the gasping at the surface, and this after a better than 90% change. I now have what's left of them back with the fry until I can scour out their tank and then I'll have to re-cycle it.  The same with the 20g tank I had the DGs in. The meds worked, almost killed all my fish, but they seem to have worked.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

afremont said:


> Wow, sorry to hear that. Sounds eerily similar to my experience. Did it appear to have a deworming effect on the fish? Did they poop white? Do you happen to know the concentration? .8g sounds like allot of meds for 10 gallons unless it's diluted some. This page recommends 13ppm in the tank:
> Treating Your water with Levamisole
> .8g of pure levamisole in 10 gallons is a little over 21ppm, about 50% over what the other page recommends.
> 
> My fish have somehow miraculously escaped death, including the big blue one with the bumps. He slowly and continuously pooped for several days, bumps going down but now completely away. Then yesterday I happened to look in and saw a 3-4" long piece of white poop hanging from him. I guess he finally cleared the obstruction and the bumps were completely gone. It took all of them until yesterday to recover from their meds, it really smacked them down for a few days. They all seem like they're going to be ok now, they all eat and nobody hides. The big blue one has decided to take over being alpha male now, so I guess he's feeling better. They all act starved, but I'm holding back on the food some for a few days, so they don't gorge themselves and get constipated really bad.


I didn't notice the fishes pooping..they were too pooped to eat after the ordeal.

I'll clear out my 55 gallon tank and try again on the 10 gallon...just in case I gotta transfer the fishies again. But I'm going to wait a week or so.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

afremont said:


> Somebody showed me this:
> Vermisol, 100 Grams
> I'm going to order some from them.
> 
> BTW, on my mosquitofish tank, I lost several fish while I concentrated on the DGs. I relocated them all to a 5g tank with some fry and then changed 90% of the water in their tank. I filled it up and put them back and they did just like your fish with the gasping at the surface, and this after a better than 90% change. I now have what's left of them back with the fry until I can scour out their tank and then I'll have to re-cycle it.  The same with the 20g tank I had the DGs in. The meds worked, almost killed all my fish, but they seem to have worked.


 Sorry to hear about your fish.
Let me know if the vermisol works for you. The dealer looks like a professional one, so I'll try that one out if it works for you.


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Your fish should have pooped out the worms you could see, did they at least disappear? My fish didn't want to eat for a few days, but they pooped anyway as the dead worms released their grip on the fish.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

afremont said:


> Your fish should have pooped out the worms you could see, did they at least disappear? My fish didn't want to eat for a few days, but they pooped anyway as the dead worms released their grip on the fish.


 No, the two fish with the worms still have the worms on thier anus...nothing has changed in the way they look. On a different note, I've got a few neon tetras that have stomachs that look lumpy and bloated. Do you think they might have worms in them too?


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

afremont the issue with that link is its not considering the actual % levamisole. That link is correct for whatever purity they are using, but they don't say what it is. It could be 90% or maybe a 70% powder. I mentioned the ebay stuff as being questionable as it does not look anything like mine. If it was very diluted then that would explain the much higher dosage. However your description of its effects are not at all like levamisole. It should not cloud or stress fish or snails at all. My fish still eat everything when I add the med my snails behave normally. 

In comparison below is what I have always used. My levamisole was produced by Agrilabs and I believe they no longer make it. 



























The ebay seller is selling a white powder as levamisole. I suggested it may not be levamisole because it does not look like it nor does the dosage or instructions match up. 

Let us know how the second trial of the ebay stuff goes. If its still a flop I might be able to send you some of what I have if you want to try it. It is expired but was still working 6 months ago. Other then that I can just suggest the bird dewormer or ask a vet. I'm pretty sure the main reason its so hard to get levamisole these days is because it is increasingly found in cocaine. I bought mine in 07' or 08' off a shelf in my local fleetfarm. Now its almost impossible to fine anywhere for a decent price. Next time I go to Mexico..... >.>


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

Mikaila31 said:


> afremont the issue with that link is its not considering the actual % levamisole. That link is correct for whatever purity they are using, but they don't say what it is. It could be 90% or maybe a 70% powder. I mentioned the ebay stuff as being questionable as it does not look anything like mine. If it was very diluted then that would explain the much higher dosage. However your description of its effects are not at all like levamisole. It should not cloud or stress fish or snails at all. My fish still eat everything when I add the med my snails behave normally.
> 
> In comparison below is what I have always used. My levamisole was produced by Agrilabs and I believe they no longer make it.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Mikaila.
I think that even if the stuff I got was levamisole, I have no idea what filler material they used. I am now having second thoughts on even trying it a second time. Its too bad that the stuff is no longer manufactured by reputable companies.


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## afremont (Nov 17, 2011)

Here is a seemingly good read on dosing Levamisole:
Levamisole Hydrochloride — Loaches Online

He recommends 2ppm for 24 hours. I'm going to get some from igo-pro and use that for my next treatment instead of continuing the fenbendazole.


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## Ami (May 27, 2011)

afremont said:


> Here is a seemingly good read on dosing Levamisole:
> Levamisole Hydrochloride — Loaches Online
> 
> He recommends 2ppm for 24 hours. I'm going to get some from igo-pro and use that for my next treatment instead of continuing the fenbendazole.


Hi,
I was wondering if you got the meds you were planning to get from igo-pro. How are your fishies?
~Ami


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