# i'm new here and i have some questions



## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

hey, this is my first post and i'm thinking about setting up a saltwater tank and i have a few questions so if someone could answer them the best they can it would be greatly appreciated. 

1. this is probably the most asked question by beginners but, how do you convert freshwater to saltwater?

2. what kind of water should i use (tap or bottle)?

3. out of the tanks i have, which would be better for a first timer. i have a 10 gal. and a 20 gal. long

4. what preparations are needed?

5. what equipment is necessary? (ex. what kind of lighting, lid, stuff in the tank, etc...)

6. is it ok to have these kinds of fish in the same tank; clownfish, blue tang, yellow tang, cleaner shrimp, starfish, moorish idol (most of you can probably see that i'm naming the fish from finding nemo) so all the fish in the tank gang but adding dory and excluding bloat

7. are live plants necessary? can i use fake plants, coral, anemone, etc...?

thats about all the questions i can think of right now. if i think of more then i'll post them or just edit this post.


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

bndoarn said:


> hey, this is my first post and i'm thinking about setting up a saltwater tank and i have a few questions so if someone could answer them the best they can it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 1. this is probably the most asked question by beginners but, how do you convert freshwater to saltwater?
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum.  

Now for your questions:

1) A few things you need to look at for Saltwater is Water movement, proper lighting, water salinity level, type of water, and filtration. It is a lot to think about. As you know, the ocean never stops moving, so a good current in the tank is needed. This is solved with a powerhead (or two, or three+). Lighting is the most important thing for Reef. In FO or FOWLR (Fish Only/Fish only with live rock), it isnt so important. The salinity level needs to be a certain range, while the Specific gravity being 1.021-1.025. Filtration is also very important, because you need to have certain things that FW doesn't require (Protein Skimmer, Cheato/Algea, rock, floss, etc).

2) Neither Tap or Bottled. You want RO/DI water (Reverse Osmosis/De-
Ionized Water). Tap/Bottled water contains unwanted phosphates which can cause huge algea outbreaks. You can get RO/DI water from your fish store, or buy a diffuser.

3) 20G long. This opens up more variety, and more room for error.

4) Preperations? Like salt, live rock and sand?

5)Equipment:
-Powerhead; stimulates water movement
-Lighting; this all depends on what system you are running (Reef, FO, FOWLR). Reef should have at least 4 watts per gallon. The more the better.
-Glass/Acrylic Lid: Helps stop evaporation.
-Sump/Refugium/Fuge Filter: Helps a ton with filtration. Your second source of filtratino after Live rock. A good hang-on-back filter, like an Aquaclear 110, can be converted into a fuge (which is basically a seperate container which flows clean water back in the tank, and you can grow beneficial copepods and bacteria.
-Live rock/sand: Your most vital source of filtration.
-Heater: Most tanks need a temperature between 78-82 degrees.
-Refractometer: Measures specific gravity and salinity levels.

6) Yes, but absolutley not in this tank. Tangs should have 75 gallons minimum. A pair of clownfish can work, but add them at the same time. Cleaner Shrimp; yes. Starfish; only brittle stars, or some safe stars. Morish Idol: very bad choice. These are not hardy at all. You also will need a clean-up-crew, which would consist of hermit crabs, snails, and brittle stars (actually there is a lot, but those are the main ones). They do what the name says; clean-up everything unwanted.

7) No, but Live rock and sand helps immensly. This is your main source of filtration. You can, however, buy fake rock with a few pieces of live rock, and it will seed the "dead" rock. Fake corals look very tacky in my opinion. Go with either live corals (if you have everything in line), or none.


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## herefishy (Dec 14, 2006)

I have notified one of our forum members to answer your post. She will be on later to leave her input. Dawn(bettababy) is very well versed in saltwater to the point that I am going to use her as my mentor when I set up my salt tank. It's unbelievable to many that with all of the tanks I have I have no salt tanks. Oh, well. She will be along shortly.

In the meantime, I suggest that you take a look at these links:

http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1802

http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13263


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

thanks cody for the fast answers. i'm gonna have to look into gettin all the necessary equipment. also by preparations i meant how should i clean it before i get started. it's been sitting in my garage for over a year and there's no telling whats all been in it. is it ok to uses bleach to clean it out as long at it is thoroughly rinsed afterwards? (sorry, i should've been more clear in my original post), and how about this revision of the fish for the tank: 2 clownfish, 1 blue tang, 1 yellow tang, 1 starfish, 1 cleaner shrimp, and the cleaning crew with hermit crabs and snails. also where can i get live coral? is it sold at petsmart cause thats the closest pet store to me?


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

herefishy said:


> I have notified one of our forum members to answer your post. She will be on later to leave her input. Dawn(bettababy) is very well versed in saltwater to the point that I am going to use her as my mentor when I set up my salt tank. It's unbelievable to many that with all of the tanks I have I have no salt tanks. Oh, well. She will be along shortly.
> 
> In the meantime, I suggest that you take a look at these links:
> 
> ...


thanks, the more help the better. i just hope i can maintain s/w tank. i've always wanted one


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

bndoarn said:


> thanks cody for the fast answers. i'm gonna have to look into gettin all the necessary equipment. also by preparations i meant how should i clean it before i get started. it's been sitting in my garage for over a year and there's no telling whats all been in it. is it ok to uses bleach to clean it out as long at it is thoroughly rinsed afterwards? (sorry, i should've been more clear in my original post), and how about this revision of the fish for the tank: 2 clownfish, 1 blue tang, 1 yellow tang, 1 starfish, 1 cleaner shrimp, and the cleaning crew with hermit crabs and snails. also where can i get live coral? is it sold at petsmart cause thats the closest pet store to me?


You can clean it out with bleach, but you have to have it in a certain solution (like 10% bleach). A member should verify that.

No tangs in a 20G. They need way more space. You can do a pair of clowns (with a star, CUC, shrimp) and maybe another small fish max. Look into gobies, some wrasses, Pseudochromis, and Royal Gramma.

Live coral should be found at any local saltwater fish store near you.

I doubt Petsmart carries anything saltwater. Look for local "mom and pop" stores.

Also, as Herefishy said, Dawn (Bettababy) is highly knowledgable in this subject. She should be able to clear up anything that any other members cant answer.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

*I'm going to answer your questions in bold so they are easier to read.*



bndoarn said:


> hey, this is my first post and i'm thinking about setting up a saltwater tank and i have a few questions so if someone could answer them the best they can it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 1. this is probably the most asked question by beginners but, how do you convert freshwater to saltwater?
> 
> ...


I hope I was able to answer your questions enough to help. Please ask more if you need to. 

If you decide to go through with this, there are some basic steps you can follow to get you set up. I've managed to break it down into a 10 step program for easy understanding, but please be advised... the steps must be done in order. If you add sand or rock before salt, you're done for and just wasted a lot of time and money... meaning you'll be needing to buy new sand and rock... etc...

1. Set up tank and filtration (for reef, you'll really need a skimmer, too)

2. Fill with water, add water conditioner if using tap water.

3. Test water for pH, phosphate, and calcium before you add salt.

4. Add power heads (in 20 gallons you should have 1 - 2 for proper circulation) and salt. Wait 48 hrs.

5. Test spg/salinity, adjust with salt or freshwater as needed until you are within a range of 1.023 - 1.025. Add heater at this time. Wait 24 hrs, test spg/salinity again.

6. Continue witih adjustments until tank has remained at a stable salinity for 72 hrs minimum before doing anything more.

7. Add live rock first, then live sand. This method helps to anchor the base pieces of rock for sturdy structures. Sturdy is a must because many fish and inverts dig and burrow in the sandbed, and because corals can grow in many directions, and an unsturdy rock structure will send them tumbling, which could kill them and anything they might land on and crush.

8. Wait 24 - 48 hrs, then test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, and calcium.

9. Sit back and patiently watch it cycle. This will average about 6 - 8 wks, each tank is different.

10. Test every few days to keep track of cycling. Water changes shouldn't be needed during this time, but if your live rock goes through a heavy stage of die off, ammonia can get quite high... which would leave your cycle ending with a nitrate level that is off the charts and lethal to your animals. If ammonia spikes above 1.0, do a small... 10% water change with premixed saltwater. Wait 24 hrs, then test again. This will prevent your cycle from being so harsh which will also prolong it. The live rock and live sand will do the cycling, please do not use fish.

I hope this helps.... let us know if there's more we can help you with!


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

thanks for all the great help bettababy. i'm gonna have to work on getting all of that stuff (and the money). this tank probably won't get started until the summer when i get a job. so far the only thing i have is a tank. also if i do get a new tank which size should i get? would a 20H be better than a 20L? and just one more question, is more bubbles better? i have a airstone if i need to use it.


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## herefishy (Dec 14, 2006)

This I can answer. The 20g long would be a better choice, for a number of reason. None is more important than the fact that it has a greater surface area allowing for more oxygen transfer. Add to that the fact that is not as tall and allows for more usable light to reach the bottom of the tank. Less diffraction. See, I am learning. lol 

As for asthetics, a longer tank allows for a wider diorama. A longer "picture", kind of like a widescreen TV.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Great answer herefishy, I'm going to add to it. A longer tank also allows for more area in the tank, which means more room for animals. Area means territory!! Corals can't go too close to each other, so the longer tank allows more room for keeping them spaced away from each other.

As for air stone.... I don't like them in saltwater because they cause a lot more salt creep.
Ok, here we go... a few things you'll also need to know before getting started... Everyone who owns a marine tank deal with salt creep, to some extent or other. Water evaporates, salt does not. When you have water spray, splashing, condensation, etc with a marine tank, the water dries and leaves salt crystals behind. This will greatly affect your salinity level if not kept under control, and if the tank water isn't tested for salinity anytime water goes in or comes out. You can minimize salt creep by keeping things covered wherever possible, and by doing a daily wipe down of your tank and equip.

Now, the most important part beyond set up.... *quarantine tank!*
Anyone keeping a reef tank will need a quarantine tank for sure... anyone bringing home a new fish from the pet store or ordering them from online, needs a quarantine tank. This can make or break your tank right from the start. 
Any fish you bring home should spend 2 - 3 wks in a quarantine tank before going into the main tank. The majority of marine fish are still being wild caught, which brings in many many disease and parasite issues. If in a quarantine tank, you will have the chance to make sure the fish is healthy before adding it to a tank full of corals, inverts, other fish. Fish diseases and parasites tend to be highly contageous, and the medications to treat them are not safe for any invert... corals, shrimps, starfish, urchins, snails, etc. Some parasites, such as ich... will run a specific life cycle. With corals and other inverts in a tank, the only way to be rid of the parasite is to remove anything that would be a host for them... so all live fish should be put into quarantine. The fish can be safely treated in quarantine and then remain there until the main tank is parasite free. The only way to make a reef tank ich free is to let it run out its life cycle without a host to feed on. This takes a period of weeks.

Corals can also bring disease and parasite issues into a tank, so a coral quarantine is also a good idea. Neither qt tank needs to be real large... expect it to hold partial of what's in the main tank... and it can be set up rather quickly using the main tank supplies in an emergency. A quarantine tank should be bare bottom or almost bare bottom (a handful of live sand from the main tank can help keep it cycled when not in use for fish), a few small pieces of live rock, some shelter for the fish to hide, a heater, and a sponge filter. 

Hope this helps...


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

thanks for the help herefishy and betababy. is it ok to use a 10g with a tank divider for the quarantine tank. half the tank for fish and the other half for coral? also wht kind of lighting will i need if i want reef tank?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

The reason I mentioned a seperate qt tank for corals is because of the medications that will eventually be used for the fish in the qt tank. Safe for fish, not safe for corals (or any other invert, including snails, starfish, shrimp, etc)... and many of those meds, like copper, will permanently contaminate that tank... so once something like medication has gone in, corals will need to qt elsewhere. 
Before any meds are used in the qt tank, it would be safe for both fish and corals, but not always together, and considering the water params and temp, and light, are appropriate for each thing going in.

The lighting will depend on the types of corals... some need high light, some need low light, some need light in between. A shallow tank will make it cheaper and easier to provide light for "high light" corals, but can create a challenge sometimes for the lower light animals. Using live rock to create shelves and caves at different levels will help to shade the animals who need less light. If you list some species names of corals you are interested in keeping, we can then direct you better on what light you will need. Considering the size of that tank, compact fluorescent would work well for most of them, and T5 would also work. Don't make the mistake of focusing only on how many watts per gallon. I see this happen often. The other important factors in lighting are the spectrum of light, and the heat intensity it puts out. In a 20 long, heat from MH bulbs or others that are known to run hot... will increase your water temp. The fluctuations in temp from light to dark can wipe out a tank. The smaller the amount of water the faster the rate of change... temp is no exception. This applies to salinity, waste levels, minerals, temp, everything about the tank... the smaller the tank the faster and more extreme the changes will be. These animals can't handle a lot of change, especially not drastic. Please keep that in mind when selecting light fixtures.

One other word of caution... not all corals can be housed together in a small tank like 20 gallons. Corals can be very aggressive and have "sweeper tentacles" which on some species, can reach a few feet in lenght. These tentacles will sweep around the animal and sting those around it, causing irritation and eventually death to those stung. Some corals are known to be more aggressive than others, so again, listing some names for us, we can help you to sort through them. I have been in many LFS's where the corals are all crowded togethe r into one small tank, and the sweeper tentacles from so many make it look like hair is waving around all of the tank. It's a sight to see, but beware of tanks like these when you are shopping, because once they sting each other, damage is usually done. You don't want damaged/injured animals going home to your tank. It's better for you to shop elsewhere if you see this at your LFS.


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

i looked up some coral and here are some ones that i liked, please tell if if they're compatible and small enough for my size tank(sorry if all of these questions are stupid but i have no clue at all)

-Plate Coral - Heliofungia (instead of anemone)
-Green Pagoda
-Montipora
-Stylophora
-Red Carnation Coral 

please tell if those are ok or if thats too much or too little


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Everything on your list would work in that tank except the red carnation coral. Red carnation coral is one of the more difficult, and I don't suggest it to a beginner, and it is not a photosynthetic coral... meaning they have to be fed all the time. Not a good thing in a shallow tank with high light which the others will all need. Also, with the amount of food the red carnation would require, it would be near impossible to keep it fed and keep your water quality in good enough shape to support life. 
For those other corals together, providing they have space between them, a High Output T5 would be your best solution. The montipora and stylophora would not give you the same results under compact fluroescent as they will under high output T5. If grown under compact fluorescent, these animals will have no/almost no color. If grown under the T5 they should have no problem achieving maximum color. The quality of light is different and animals like these are good examples of just how big a difference a light bulb can make. You'll get the spectrum of light they all need, the intensity they all need, and without the heat. 

You'll be working with what are called "frags". These are pieces of the corals which will grow if properly cared for. The next thing I will suggest to you before beginning this tank is to do your research about each of those species, find out how to "frag" them when they grow too large for that tank. Healthy corals can grow quite rapidly, just like fish. When they grow enough to run out of space you will be left with one of 2 situations... even though compatible they will cause each other harm or they will die. Dead or sickly corals can cause quite the mess in a tank and that in turn can harm everything else, including fish.


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

ok, thanks for answering all my questions


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

so will this light be good enough?

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...T5_HO_10K_460nm_30in_Units~vendor~~tab~2.html

also on that link it says european style. does this mean that the plug-in cord for it is only for european countries? and how long does the light need to stay on?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

That light fixture might be considered overkill for a 20 gallon long tank. Standard T5 should allow you to keep any high light needing animals in that size of a tank. 20 long is a shallow tank. Even animals who need a lot of light, too much is no good either. Corals can burn, bleach, and die if the lighting above them is too powerful. If you find a single strip isn't enough, then you can always add another. There are also 2 bulb fixtures as in the last link I will post for you for examples. My chioce would be the 2 bulb fixture for what you are considering. 

The european bulbs are different, sizes are different and very specific. If you work with a european fixture, you'll need to be able to get replacement bulbs for that european fixture, which could be challenging if you're in the states. 
Also, european plugs are different. The european fixtures run on 220 voltage. Here in the states that would be considered inconvenient, and again... overkill. 

Here are some examples of fixtures that would suit your needs:

http://www.aquarium-supply.biz/Nova_SunDial_T5_p/rcu01151.htm
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10927/product.web
http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/power_aqualightT5.htm
Hope this helps!


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## Cumminz_Dzl (Apr 11, 2008)

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10927/product.web is that a good one in there? I ask this because compared, they are very inexpensive. also i dont mean to hi jack, but what kind of protein skimmer (brand) would you reccemond for a 125?


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

bettababy said:


> That light fixture might be considered overkill for a 20 gallon long tank. Standard T5 should allow you to keep any high light needing animals in that size of a tank. 20 long is a shallow tank. Even animals who need a lot of light, too much is no good either. Corals can burn, bleach, and die if the lighting above them is too powerful. If you find a single strip isn't enough, then you can always add another. There are also 2 bulb fixtures as in the last link I will post for you for examples. My chioce would be the 2 bulb fixture for what you are considering.
> 
> The european bulbs are different, sizes are different and very specific. If you work with a european fixture, you'll need to be able to get replacement bulbs for that european fixture, which could be challenging if you're in the states.
> Also, european plugs are different. The european fixtures run on 220 voltage. Here in the states that would be considered inconvenient, and again... overkill.
> ...


Dawn, question on the lighting. I think 48W of t5 lights would be perfect for this tank. Why would it be overkill? I know that since it is a shallow tank, it can bleach out corals, but this seems good. I have seen people run 150W MH lights on their 2.5G pico tanks and have LPS/SPS corals in perfect condition. Would it be because of the heat and over-exposure in a shallow reef?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

> Would it be because of the heat and over-exposure in a shallow reef?


Yep! You answered your own question!

The distance between light and water makes all the difference. While T5 lighting is known to run much cooler than MH, and even compact fluorescent, when you are dealing with that much light over such a shallow tank, you're going to get some heat production. Add to it that these animals are getting direct light and are so close to it, and you've got a good mixture for trouble. 

While they do need the proper exposure to the light in order to process food, too much of a good thing is no good. I have seen large tanks with MH lighting too intense over the water, corals placed too high, and in a very short period of time, they are bleached out and dying. Move them down a few inches in the water where the temp is a little cooler and the light rays not as intense and they thrive. In a 20 gallon tank, especially a long tank, there isn't anywhere to go "lower".

Now, if you were to put those lights over that size of a tank, and hang them or raise them up about 6 - 12 inches above the tank, you'd have a different situation. Most T5 lighting is designed to sit close to the water, almost directly on top of the cover over the tank, if there is one. The closer to the water, the more direct the rays of light, the more heat is trapped between light and water (or water and cover with light directly over it).


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Helps a lot.


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

ok, i have another question. sorry i didn't ask before but i just thought about it but do i need a heater right now. i live in florida and with the summer quickly approaching it's going to get HOT. those of you who live in florida know how hot it gets. i know i will need one when winter comes around again but is it a necessity right now?


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Yes. You can have it off during the day, but at night it should be on because the temperature will flucuate a lot. Most heaters turn themselves off when it hits the right temperature, and turn back on when the temperature drops.


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

ok, thanks. i bought a filter and a test kit today. i also cleaned out my tank. the filter i got was an AquaClear Power Filter #50 for 20-50 gallons. It's has 3 methods of filtration (mechanical, chemical, and biological). is this good?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I'd like to elaborate a bit about Cody's answer about the heater. While temp will fluctuate according to day and night, it will also fluctuate according to when the lights are on and off. It's the rapid and usually drastic fluctuation in temp that makes it dangerous to not have a heater. The heater will keep the tank at a stable temp where you set it.

Now, what wasn't mentioned, is that living in a very warm summer climate such as Florida, you may find you will also need a chiller. When summer temps hit, room temp, unless it is strictly regulated and stable within a safe range for the aquarium, will raise the water temp to unsafe levels, and then again at night and when lights go off, the temp will drop back down for the heater to keep it regulated. If keeping a reef tank, anything over 78 degrees will tend to wipe out inverts/corals very rapidly. Anemones and soft corals will literally "melt" and stony corals will simply close up and die. Shrimp, crabs, snails, starfish, etc... also the same thing... if the temp gets too high, they will also show signs of stress and die quickly. 

The same thing with temp fluctuations applies as with lighting... the smaller the amount of water, the faster the rate of change and the more extreme those changes will be. In a tank of less than 75 gallons, those temp changes will be more drastic and happen much faster than in a tank of 75 gallons or more. I know plenty of people who keep aqariums in Florida, and anything reef that I am personally aware of, has required a chiller, and some of those tanks are well over 100 gallons.


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## bndoarn (Apr 3, 2008)

i have another question that just popped up, I'm probably only gonna have two fish (2 ocellaris clowns) (unless i can fit more in a 20L reef tank) so do i need a permanent quarantine tank or just a temporary one? i know i will need one for when i first get them and for when they get sick but in between those times does the quarantine tank have to keep running? also is the filter i got a good one? i have a AquaClear #50 for 20-50 gallons with 3 types of filtration (mechanical, chemical, and biological). is this good or not?


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