# Stubborn brown algae, what more can I do?



## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

I have an established ( cycled for 2 years) 33 gallons aquarium which currently houses 9 emperor tetras (plus babies when they breed), 6 corydoras trilineatus and an aging, single Bolivian Rams. I have 2 filters for this jolly gang, a Fluval 204 and a Fluval U3, cleaned monthly, sometimes more often. It is very planted, with mostly java fern and moss, cryptocoryne, anubias, amazon swordplants and hygrophila. Also 3 pieces of bogwood. Lights are on 10 hours a day. I change 20-25% of the water, weekly. I don't know if it changes anything but the soil is half river gravel, half sand. For about 6 months I have dealt with a crazy blooming of brown algae that just won't quit, and is currently killing my plants. Even my pennyworth who have been breeding like crazy for 3 years and the duckweed are attacked (and when the duckweed is actually not breeding...you know there's a problem!) I thought the slight overpopulation going on was the culprit so I added the U3. No change. 

On the advice I found on the net I changed my fluorescent bulbs (currently have 2 new Life-Glo bulbs, 6700k each), started adding doses of liquid fertilizer at each water change, plus put fertilizer sticks under my plants' roots. I also boiled all my decorations (including bogwood) to remove all traces of algae. It seemed to get better, I've noticed new leaves on my swordplant (which had lost all its big leaves to the algae attack!) and the duckweed was back...then it started again. I have to scrape the glass of my tank at least twice a week. I actually brush my plants' leafs with a kid's toothbrush a few times a week to let them breathe through the algae! I have no idea what I should do anymore. Any idea I could try? I'm desperate to save my plants


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

If its diatoms then you can invest in a couple otos they'll take care of it without a problem. As for the cause I have no clue.


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

zof said:


> If its diatoms then you can invest in a couple otos they'll take care of it without a problem. As for the cause I have no clue.


I'm pretty sure they are diatoms, but I'm worried about adding to the existing population, as I think I'm already on the limit of overstocking!


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

Yea you are probably on the edge but given you have 2 filters running and the live plants I think you can squeeze 2 or 3 in there.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The otos will be OK, but before that...

If this is really diatoms, it will occur in low light and/or with high silicates (a type of mineral) and/or organics in the water. Have you checked with your water supply people to see if silicates are in the water?

Life-Glo tubes are good light, it is not low, I use those myself. But they do wear out, and when they get less intense algae sometimes appears as a sign of this. If the tubes are T8, some say replacing them every 2-3 years is fine, others say 1-2 years. I just replaced mine after 20 months, as I felt they were overdue. Sooner rather than later won't hurt, though it is expensive.

Let me know about the silicates, I can go further if that is an issue.

The other thing is, it may not be diatoms. Can you post a photo?


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

Byron said:


> The otos will be OK, but before that...
> 
> If this is really diatoms, it will occur in low light and/or with high silicates (a type of mineral) and/or organics in the water. Have you checked with your water supply people to see if silicates are in the water?
> 
> ...


The Life-Glo are brand new, I thought the algaes were from my old Power-glo tubes, the change helped my plant growth but not the algae problem.

I just read this morning that 'play sand' can be rich in silicates and that is exactly what I have in my tank. I had no idea, so I have that path to try. I happen to have some phosphate and silicates remover, I just never used it. It can't hurt to try I guess.

I took some pictures here they are:


















Thank you!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Oh, that is a bad infestation.

Silica sand will obviously be bad for diatoms, but playsand may not necessarily be silica sand. I have playsand and it is not. True silica sand is usually light in colour, white or pale off-white, like pool sands. Quartz is a silica mineral.

Organixcs also plays a part; regular water changes, keeping organics in check, etc. will help. And a trio of otos, or a Farlowella vittata if the water is soft and slightly acidic.


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

I'm really unsure, my substrate is basically a mix of 3 kinds of substrates, small white river gravel (this one might be quartz), bigger river pebbles, and two beaches of pale brown sand. 

I think in doubt, I will try the silicate remover first, I'm a bit unsure about adding more fish right now. Especially since I've always read that otos need to be in groups of 6+ to be happy, and Farlowella vittata ends up measuring 6 inches, that's quite big for a 33 gals :-?


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

+1 byron your and awesome repository of information, I've always wondered what caused diatoms


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## rich k (Apr 23, 2011)

*this works*

algae destroyer advanced. i had same problem and read hours and hours of forums all over the net and got tired of it. so my last resort was go chemical. and in 24 hours it was all dead . cleand everything real good and its been 3 weeks now so far so good. i got plants to.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I would caution anyone on using any form of "algicide." Algae is just a plant, and any chemical strong enough to kill algae is likely going to have some effect on plants. Not to mention, any chemical in a fish tank will affect the fish in some manner. I am not saying plants or fish will be killed (though they might eventually), just somehow affected.

If this product is something like liquid carbon, that is another matter.

It is always preferable to find the cause and fix that, rather than "band-aid."


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## rich k (Apr 23, 2011)

Byron said:


> I would caution anyone on using any form of "algicide." Algae is just a plant, and any chemical strong enough to kill algae is likely going to have some effect on plants. Not to mention, any chemical in a fish tank will affect the fish in some manner. I am not saying plants or fish will be killed (though they might eventually), just somehow affected.
> 
> If this product is something like liquid carbon, that is another matter.
> 
> It is always preferable to find the cause and fix that, rather than "band-aid."


i agree but its working for me. with NO side affect. did not want to but got tired of fighting a loosing battle. trust me i read all your posts to . its not do to not enough light either. i got plenty of that .


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

rich k said:


> i agree but its working for me. with NO side affect. did not want to but got tired of fighting a loosing battle. trust me i read all your posts to . its not do to not enough light either. i got plenty of that .


Yes, these things can "work." But with respect, to say there are no side effects is not accurate. The truth is you have no idea, nor do I, as to what effect these products actually have. A chemical is a chemical, and the fish are being exposed to it, that is all we know for certain. Claims by manufacturers cannot always be trusted.


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## rich k (Apr 23, 2011)

Byron said:


> Yes, these things can "work." But with respect, to say there are no side effects is not accurate. The truth is you have no idea, nor do I, as to what effect these products actually have. A chemical is a chemical, and the fish are being exposed to it, that is all we know for certain. Claims by manufacturers cannot always be trusted.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rich k (Apr 23, 2011)

That is true my fish and plants are doing good so far and no more brown slime Ye ha.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

Well after a few weeks I can tell the phosphate remover is not working at all. In fact I've noticed new kind of algae (cladophora) growing on my plants. The plants are dying now, I had to get rid of a bunch of them tonight. I bought a phosphate test and it's well within the normal limits. So it's not the water.

One thing I've noticed 'though, it that two of my piece of wood seem to be rotting. Well I don't know if it's rotting but it's noticeably softer than when I bought it. Could it be responsible for the algae disaster? It doesn't change my water parameter but they were advertised as 'terrarium wood' when I bought them.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Freddiesbuns said:


> Well after a few weeks I can tell the phosphate remover is not working at all. In fact I've noticed new kind of algae (cladophora) growing on my plants. The plants are dying now, I had to get rid of a bunch of them tonight. I bought a phosphate test and it's well within the normal limits. So it's not the water.
> 
> One thing I've noticed 'though, it that two of my piece of wood seem to be rotting. Well I don't know if it's rotting but it's noticeably softer than when I bought it. Could it be responsible for the algae disaster? It doesn't change my water parameter but they were advertised as 'terrarium wood' when I bought them.


Terrarium wood is not meant to be under water, and if it is rotting (getting soft and mushy is a sign of this), it can leech substances into the water, and who knows what may be in the wood. I have killed a tank of fish from something leeching from wood. I would remove it. I've no idea if this is the source of the algae (diatoms) issue. But I do know that the normal water tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH) will not alert you to any other water/toxin issues. 

Here is some detailed info on diatoms. [This is longer than one post, so it will be continued in a second.].

*Brown/Diatom Algae*









Brown Algae is not considered a true algae as per many biologists, rather a diatom. However under the 5 Kingdom classification system both Brown Diatoms and more common algae fall into the "grab bag" Kingdom; "Proctotista", although Brown Diatom Algae fall into the division Bacillariophyceae.

Diatoms also single-cell organisms but are significantly larger and more complicated than cyanobacteria. They have cell walls containing silica. The individual cells are yellow-green to brown. They contain two types of chlorophyll and at some stage in their life cycles have motile stages which move by the action of one or two tiny beating hairs called flagella.

Most diatoms show very limited mobility and exist primarily as groups of cells growing a film over the surface of objects. In low concentrations they probably don't have any noticeable effect in aquarium systems, and indeed they are probably always present.
These diatom cells are encased within a unique cell wall made of silica (hydrated silicon dioxide). The yellowish-brown chloroplasts within Brown Diatom algae are what give this “algae” its typical appearance.
Brown Diatoms are found in fresh and saltwater as well as soil. Diatoms are a major component of plankton, free-floating microorganisms of marine or freshwater environments. Not all diatoms float freely though; many may cling to surfaces such as aquatic plants, gravel, décor, molluscs, and crustaceans. Brown Diatom Algae are dependent upon silicates and high DOC (dissolved organic compounds) in the water and thrive in conditions where the minerals and Redox are out of balance. Brown diatom algae also out compete more desirable green algae in these conditions when light is poor for healthy photosynthesis due to lack adequate amounts of light in the proper PAR.

With the above points in mind, I will again emphasize that Brown Diatoms MUST have silicates present to reproduce, although removal of al silicates is often not feasible, in many of the methods (outlined in the removal tips below) the aquarist can lower the available silicates including by simply adding plants or encouraging green algae to grow which will out compete the Brown diatoms.
From the Aquarium Answers article; “Aquarium Test Kits” here are some silicate parameters: Natural seawaters contain silicates around 10 ppm however due to differences in a closed system (which an aquarium is) and the ocean it is best to maintain silicates under 1 ppm in an aquarium to prevent diatom blooms and aid in uptake of essential elements such as Strontium by corals. 
In freshwater, silicates are generally between 4-20 ppm and should be kept under 4 ppm in an aquarium, although usually this is not a problem in healthy established freshwater aquariums where lighting is good to encourage plants or green algae (both of which will starve also consume silicates limiting diatom growth).

This is a common algae in new aquariums (including marine tanks), especially aquariums that have not fully cycled as this leaves many available nutrients for these diatoms.
If an established aquarium struggles with these diatoms, this is often an indicator of excessive silica, poor mineral/electrolyte balance, an unstable biological aquarium environment (often caused by poor filtration, poor cleaning procedures, Redox Balance, Aquarium Lightingor over medication).


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

[Continuation of previous post on diatoms:]

*Here are a few tips (suggestions) for eradication of Brown Diatom Algae (in no particular order of importance):*

• Use re-mineralized RO water if silicates are high in tap water. 
For saltwater 100% RO or DI water use is fine for both mixing with marine salt mix or topping off for evaporation. 
HOWEVER in freshwater I do not generally recommend 100% use of RO or DI water, rather blended water and even then it is best to re-mineralize with products such as Wonder Shells, and check the KH and adjust accordingly with products such as SeaChem Buffer or even SeaChem Cichlid salt which has other important minerals and KH enhancing carbonates as well.

• Correct proper mineralization with products such as Wonder Shells or other mineral blocks. Maintaining a correct KH, pH, and GH balance is a good place to start as well. The use of balanced buffers in marine tanks such as SeaChem Marine Buffer is highly suggested. 







• Along the same line of thought as the previous points, the use of products such as SeaChem’s Phosguard which removes silicates (and of coarse phosphates as well) can help rid your tank of the silicates brown diatom algae must have to survive

• Turning over gravel daily by hand and/or with a gravel vacuum slow the spread

• The use of UV Sterilization will also slow the spread of free floating diatoms and aids in the improvement of Redox Balance which is also important.
If UV Sterilizers are employed in your aquarium it is also important that these devices have their UV Bulbs replaced every six months, otherwise your UV Sterilizer will cease being effective.

• A healthy, established nitrogen cycle is essential for control of Brown Diatoms.

• Correct lighting as per the amount in lumens and the correct PAR often usually found at about 6500 Kelvin (an incorrect PAR is often the problem when lighting is the reason behind Brown Diatom Algae growth in established aquariums). Generally around 9-12 hours per day is adequate. This will allow green algae and plants to out compete the Brown Diatoms. Please see this article for more information: “Aquarium Lighting, how it works”
In marine tanks this may also indicate inadequate lumens of this high PAR light energy present in the aquarium, so even if the correct lighting is used, you may need higher energy lights (for both fresh & saltwater) such as LED or SHO

• Live plants (or green marine to algae in saltwater tanks) “out compete” diatoms

• Cut back on feeding or switch to higher quality foods that is less likely to produce high amounts of wastes and may also be high in silicates.

• Use near boiling water on décor, rocks (not gravel), plastic plants, etc. This is VERY effective in killing brown diatoms while at the same time allowing the establishment of healthy green algae that will often survive this procedure. I have used this method for years with excellent results.

• For freshwater aquariums, the addition of salt (sodium chloride) can aid in the control of many algae (not just Brown Diatom), however too much salt can interfere with your live plants (if you have them in the first place). I would recommend starting low, especially if live plants are present at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons and then slowly increasing if needed. 

• Snails, especially Nerite Snails (for FW OR SW). Please see the section on snails for further links/information in this article: "Aquarium Plants"

• Oto Catfish, Otocinclus affinis , or Bristlenose Plecsostumus are fish that MAY remove and keep this algae in check in a planted tank ( I prefer Nirite snails though)

• Patience and time (about 8-12 weeks) for new tanks, often this is all it takes for a new tank.

• Please note that the suggestions using boiling water, algae eaters, and snails are methods to bring Brown Diatoms under control, however after the being "patient" with a new tank for a few months or in the case of established aquariums, these suggestions are meant for control and if their continued use is still needed this indicates other issues that need to be addressed such as organic load (DOC), lighting, mineralization, Redox, etc.


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

I've done everything in that text save adding new fish or snails and UV sterilizing (no funds for that rigt now). Snails are not possible because my water isn't mineralised enough for them, their shell end up soft. The water treatment plant in my city gives almost osmosed water so I have very soft parameters right out of the tap (although ideals for some fishes, I have natural killifishes and tetras reproductions with no efforts.) I am getting more and more puzzled everyday by the freaking algaes!

Right now I've reduced my lighting from 10 to 8 hours and I will replace the offending wood pieces by real aquarium wood today. It's really the most logical reason...I'm lucky it didn't kill my fishes


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Freddiesbuns said:


> I've done everything in that text save adding new fish or snails and UV sterilizing (no funds for that rigt now). Snails are not possible because my water isn't mineralised enough for them, their shell end up soft. The water treatment plant in my city gives almost osmosed water so I have very soft parameters right out of the tap (although ideals for some fishes, I have natural killifishes and tetras reproductions with no efforts.) I am getting more and more puzzled everyday by the freaking algaes!
> 
> Right now I've reduced my lighting from 10 to 8 hours and I will replace the offending wood pieces by real aquarium wood today. It's really the most logical reason...I'm lucky it didn't kill my fishes


I have to go out momentarily, so no time to pursue this now. But if you could give me some data, I'll review it later. A link to your watger supply people would help, i want to see what's in it. Also, tank size, light specs, plants and fish. You know the drill; without the data we can't diagnose.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I am far from being an expert on plant 's but consider myself well versed on nearly all forms of algae which in the past ,I was very good at growing.
Some things I might try were it me, would be to clean the glass,decor,substrate,filter, and reduce lighting period to eight hours if you are lighting the tank longer than this.(do you still have 60 watts over the tank?)
I might also consider storing change water in five gallon bucket's or tub for 24 hours before using.(dechlorinate) This will help prevent CO2 fluctuations between perhaps low levels in the aquarium, and much higher amount normally found in tapwater. Plant's can adapt to low levels of CO2 but struggle under fluctuating CO2 levels, and algae and perhaps diatoms as well, are much more able to flourish with unstable CO2 .
Letting the water set will allow CO2 present to offgas and help prevent CO2 fluctuations.
I might try this for three or four weeks while continuing to clean the glass,and removing leaves covered with diatoms or algae.In low light tanks, things happen slowly and I would not expect a rapid response.
I might consider this as an easy ,inexpensive, attempt to reduce ,eliminate problem.
Might also consider either aquarium fertilizers in dry form that provide more in the way of macronutrient's,or some of the other liquid macronutrient's offered by Seachem in addition to the largely micronutrient's found in root tabs and some liquid fertilizer's.
If plant's receive ALL nutrient's in sufficient amount's,,then algae will have a tougher time.
works for me.


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

Byron said:


> I have to go out momentarily, so no time to pursue this now. But if you could give me some data, I'll review it later. A link to your watger supply people would help, i want to see what's in it. Also, tank size, light specs, plants and fish. You know the drill; without the data we can't diagnose.


Sorry for the late response, I have a newborn stuck on me and need to type one-handed x_x

I tried to google the water plant but nothing worth reading came through...and it's all in french anyway. 

Straight from the tap my water has a gh of 10 and kh of 10-20 (I use Nutrafin tests) and a ph of 7,5. I use peat moss to lower it to 6 but it really doesn't take much peat and it lasts a looong time. Nitrites 0 nitrates usually at 10 before weeklty water change. 

tank is 33g with 10 Emperor Tetras, 6 Corydoras Melanistius and an old fart of a Bolivian Ram. I have 2 fluorescent Life-glo bulbs (6700k each) lighting 8 hours per day (used to be 10).20% water change weekly with vaccuuming of the bottom and I usually clean up one filter every 2 weeks. 

Plants are Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Java fern, Java Moss, Anubia Barteri, Cryptocoryne Wendtii, Amazon Sword and Round Leaf Rotala. All in various states of 'Not doing well at all'


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

1077 said:


> I am far from being an expert on plant 's but consider myself well versed on nearly all forms of algae which in the past ,I was very good at growing.
> Some things I might try were it me, would be to clean the glass,decor,substrate,filter, and reduce lighting period to eight hours if you are lighting the tank longer than this.(do you still have 60 watts over the tank?)
> I might also consider storing change water in five gallon bucket's or tub for 24 hours before using.(dechlorinate) This will help prevent CO2 fluctuations between perhaps low levels in the aquarium, and much higher amount normally found in tapwater. Plant's can adapt to low levels of CO2 but struggle under fluctuating CO2 levels, and algae and perhaps diatoms as well, are much more able to flourish with unstable CO2 .
> Letting the water set will allow CO2 present to offgas and help prevent CO2 fluctuations.
> ...


The CO2 fluctuation is interesting, I never knew that. However due to space restraints it's hard for me to store water for 24 hours, but do you think adding a airstone in the bucket for maybe an hour would let the CO2 out?

I use both seachem liquid and stick fertilizer, but I received conflicting infos on their efficacity against algae. On another forum someone told me they CAUSED algae, not prevented them, and to stop adding them in my tank.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I would appreciate a photo so I can judge your comment that the plants are "not doing well at all." I just don't know what you might mean, but seeing the plants I should have a better idea.

Nutrients have minimal impact on algae so I wouldn't fuss with any of that. It is not a stretch of the imagination to say that in a balanced planted tank algae simply does not cause an issue. It is only when the balance is out that it does, and then always due to light. [I'm talking green algae here, the brown diatoms is quite another matter.]

Light has to be the limiting factor to plant growth. Nutrients have to be sufficient for the light or plants can't use it, then algae will. Plants "use" the light by photosynthesizing which means they are using all those nutrients and growing sufficiently that algae simply cannot compete. Algae will occur in a jar of water with no nutrients at all, as it will get sufficient from the air. It is the light that controls it, but the nutrients have to be available.

I have one 30-inch 25w Life-Glo tube over my 3-foot 33g tank. You mention two tubes...what sizes are they?

Byron.


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

They're 36 inches. I bought the kit second-hand and he top of the tank is 'homemade' with a ballast for 2 tubes, so I used both from the beginning and it never caused any problems...until 6 months ago.

Here are the pics:


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

In my limited expierience Diatoms and algae will appear where light and possible ammonia exists, such as overfeeding fish, or cleaning too deep into substrate where ammonia(decayed organics) could be released into the aquarium,or from removal of large amount of plant mass without large water change afterwards.
More plant's,Resuming with the fertilizer's, along with that previously mentioned would be what I would try.
I do not know what wattage of light's you began with was but 60 watts over 33 gallon Non CO2 or excell tank seems a bit much to me and I would either raise light fixture off the aquarium,cut a piece of window screen to place between the light and glass top? or lower the number of watts.
The 6700 K is suitable spectrum but in my opinion too many watts.
As Byron has said,,Light drives the planted tank. Increase in lighting result's in increased demand for CO2 which in turn drives demand for more nutrient's.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

There is too much light over that tank. You have two options. The best would be to remove one tube if you can, since one tube would be easier to balance with nutrients. The second option is to keep both and reduce the photoperiod, even down to 6 hours which is about the minimum. If this is done, make sure there are sufficient nutrients. Aside from CO2, this is easily handled with a complete fert like Flourish Comprehensive twice a week. I honestly would think CO2 would be sufficient to handle this shorter period; in most planted tanks, CO2 increases enough during darkness that it is usually available for several hours once the light is on, so cutting off the light at 6 hours would probably work out just about right. You might even try the siesta approach; lights on for 5 hours, off for 2-3, on for 5, off the remainder. This siesta works because of the CO2 depletion/rebuilding.

For that brown algae, some fish are possible (from your tank size and stocking, you do). A trio of otos would go to town in there. The twig catfish (it needs soft water though) also loves diatoms. Whiptail Catfish too, and they can manage better with medium hard water. A Bristle Nose Pleco is another.

Byron.


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

Thank you, I will remove one bulb and reduce the lighting to 8 hours. And hope my plants are still salvagable!


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

Just a little update, OMG it seems to be working! There is significantly less algae on my surface plants. It's a slow process but it seems to work.

Also, I've recently got a 50 gallons tank to replace this one, will using only one Life-Glo work or should I use both for a bigger tank?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Freddiesbuns said:


> Just a little update, OMG it seems to be working! There is significantly less algae on my surface plants. It's a slow process but it seems to work.
> 
> Also, I've recently got a 50 gallons tank to replace this one, will using only one Life-Glo work or should I use both for a bigger tank?


What are the tank dimensions? And is there an existing fixture, and if yes, what length is the tube?


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

Byron said:


> What are the tank dimensions? And is there an existing fixture, and if yes, what length is the tube?


36x 16x2o inches, I will be able to keep the same fixture as my old tank since lenght is the same, so that would be 2x36 inches life-glo. A well-versed person told me to put a power-glo on the back and keep a life-glo up front so 'all levels of the tanks get good light for plants' but I'm really new at the 'science of lightbulbs'


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Freddiesbuns said:


> 36x 16x2o inches, I will be able to keep the same fixture as my old tank since lenght is the same, so that would be 2x36 inches life-glo. A well-versed person told me to put a power-glo on the back and keep a life-glo up front so 'all levels of the tanks get good light for plants' but I'm really new at the 'science of lightbulbs'


Are you sure the tubes are not 30-inch, rather than 36? You measure tubes end to end minus the prongs.

Whichever, two will be fine. A combo of Life-Glo 2 and Power-Glo would work. The PG adds a bit of purplish, but not excessive with the LG to balance.


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## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

Byron said:


> Are you sure the tubes are not 30-inch, rather than 36? You measure tubes end to end minus the prongs.
> 
> Whichever, two will be fine. A combo of Life-Glo 2 and Power-Glo would work. The PG adds a bit of purplish, but not excessive with the LG to balance.


I don't have 'prongs' to speak of, I use a home made top with a separate ballast with plugs for 2 tubes. That's how I can use 36 inches tubes. 

Thanks for your help!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Freddiesbuns said:


> I don't have 'prongs' to speak of, I use a home made top with a separate ballast with plugs for 2 tubes. That's how I can use 36 inches tubes.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


The prongs are on the tubes, the two metal bits at each end. For T8 tubes anyway. That's all I meant, when measuring a tube you do not include the prongs in the measurement.


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