# Camallanus Worms



## ShukiAi (Feb 15, 2012)

So I've been dealing with camallanus worms... it's a nightmare! :evil:

I have a 30 gallon community tank and I discovered the worms about a month or two ago. I've lost multiple guppies and 10 neons. My 3 panda garras have been infected as well. I saw the little red worms coming out of their anus and they are acting quite lethargic. 

With my latest treatment I went the Fenbendazole/Panacur route since Levamisole is hard to come by. And from what I read people have sworn by the Panacur. 

Day 1: Large water change (about 80%) and then soaked food with half a packet of Panacur in about 3-4 oz. of water
Days 2-4: Continued with feeding with the Panacur 
Day 5: Another large water change (about 80%)

Right now I'm not seeing signs of worms in the guppies or tetras. I've tried looking at the garras but they are hiding. :-?

I think I'm going to do another round of treatment in two weeks time. 

However, does anyone have any other suggestions for if this doesn't work? Also, does anyone know if there are no fish in the tank, will the worms die off? I have amano and ghost shrimp as well, but from what I read, the worms don't affect them?

This is quite the frustrating parasite.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You'll want to do that treatment weekly for at least 3 weeks for best results.

The worms reside in the fish so taking the fish out will only 1) stress them which can lead to further illnesses and 2) they might get out of the main tank but then you'd have to separately dose them and I feel it'd be easier to keep them in the main tank--of course that is up to you; if you feel it'd be easier to take them out then that is your call.

From what I've read the crustaceans can carry the eggs of the worms so they can still be infected for the egg laying worms. I think there are two types? not certain but one is an egg layer and the other is a live bearer. Could be wrong about that though.


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## ShukiAi (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks for your response lilnaugrim!
So do you think I should do the 4 day treatment every week for 3 weeks... or treat for 3 weeks straight? I'll have to buy more Panacur. 
And I just spotted another red worm coming out of my panda garra... darn worms. It's hard to get the bottom feeder fish to ingest the meds. *sigh*


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

you want to be using levamisole
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Levamisole is no longer readily on the market. Also Levamisole only paralyzes the worms so they can be passed but Pancur/Safe-Guard (Fenbendazole) kills the worms both in the fish and in the tank itself. 

As for the treatment style, you should feed the fish twice daily with the medications for two days and do a large water change after that or on each of the day's if you see worms that came out. Make sure you absolutely soak the food in medication for 30 minutes to preferably an hour so it's saturated.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

levamisole is still avalible as i use it on all my quarantined fish. currently a few sellers on ebay for it. Levamisole is highly effective and i've cleared up more then one tank with confirmed camallanus. It also doesn't need to be injested which is important since infected fish usually have poor appetite.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShukiAi (Feb 15, 2012)

Thank you for the responses! Thank you for the treatment plan as well lilnaugrim. 

Right now I'm going to stick to the Panacur since I can readily get it and all my fish are still eating. But I'll look into ordering levamisole online as well.


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## ShukiAi (Feb 15, 2012)

If anyone has a link to where I can get levamisole, please let me know. Thanks!


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Valley vet is what my teacher had suggested. They do have it. You can also try local vets as well. Prohibit (Levasole) Drench AgriLabs (Cattle Wormers - Non-Ivermectin)


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Ahh scratch that. I just asked my vet teacher and she said the last time she used it was years ago and it was a compound for horses. The most likely form you will find in local places if you can find it will be in compound.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Here's the guy to contact for levamisole; Treating Your water with Levamisole

He's in St Louis, been in the hobby many years.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Its also on ebay Levamisole Hydrochloride Powder de Wormer for Fish Choose What Quantity | eBay

You want a fairly pure powder 90+% and a little goes a long way. 

Dosing is 0.09 grams per 10 gallons. Here is a link


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Either way I can verify that the Fenbendazoale has been working. Surprisingly it has taken a little bit, but I can't always get in and catch the worms before someone eats them. After probably around 4 weeks I am seeing an improvement in my 45 gallon tank. My guppies had also just started to contract the devil worms and I treated them right away and I haven't seen a worm since Friday. I think timing has a lot to do with it. Again, Fenbendazoale kills the worms themselves, Levamisole only paralyzes, which usually does result in death as well. You do need to take into consideration whether you think you have the livebearing form of camallanus or the egg layers. Egg layers usually need an intermediate host before the fish themselves. The livebearing worms can just spew out young and find any host. 

Also, the dosing site seems legitamate until I got to the part with MDSS.... It should be MSDS, and the sheet does not include everything a MSDS should have. It made me question it a bit... Otherwise, it seems pretty good. Just be careful. Levamisole is an older drug, which may be effective, but also may not be as effective as big guns like Fenbendazoale when used correctly. This is mainly from a domestic animal stand point however, and may not completely apply to fish.

I honestly wish we could use Ivermectin on the fish, but its only in an inject-able form, and the margin for error is pretty much 0%... However one would assume that this would be a very effective method. :< Someday maybe. Either way. These are the devil worms.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

levamisole is the most effective dewormer out there. It removes the worms in 24 hours none of this 4 week treatment stuff. You retreat levamisole every 2-3 weeks for 2-3 doses which each take about 1 day and thats it. The retreatment is to remove any that might of survived. It being an older med has nothing to do with effectiveness. Levamisole was very widely used till about 2009 the only reason it has been nearly removed from the market is that it became a common cutting agent in cocaine. 

I've cleared camallanus from multiple tanks with little issue including densely planted tanks where you can't really clean much. 

Its typically the livebearing species you find in aquariums. I've also noticed in the past some infestations stay hidden until their host has died.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Mikaila31 said:


> levamisole is the most effective dewormer out there. It removes the worms in 24 hours none of this 4 week treatment stuff. You retreat levamisole every 2-3 weeks for 2-3 doses which each take about 1 day and thats it. The retreatment is to remove any that might of survived. It being an older med has nothing to do with effectiveness. Levamisole was very widely used till about 2009 the only reason it has been nearly removed from the market is that it became a common cutting agent in cocaine.
> 
> I've cleared camallanus from multiple tanks with little issue including densely planted tanks where you can't really clean much.
> 
> Its typically the livebearing species you find in aquariums. I've also noticed in the past some infestations stay hidden until their host has died.


LVM is not as effect of a drug on our normal domestic animals. I can give facts upon facts for this. Again, I study domestic animals, and I am not an ichthyologist yet, though I do aspire to have it off to the side. According to my veterinarian that I study with, LVM is not as effective as Fenbendazole. Fenbendazole has shown, IN domestic animals to be the better antiparasitical treatment. 98-100% of most common roundworms are eliminated with FBZ. 

LVM is no longer used as much possibly because of cocaine, I honestly wouldn't know as I work with animals, not people, but mainly because its just not as effective against most roundworms. Why would you use the de-wormer that gets about 80% of worms when you can use the other that will get anywhere from 98-100%? Again, I am not a veterinarian yet, and I am not an ichthyologist yet. 

The other issue is that I only gave 2 doses the first week and then 1 dose per week after. I was concerned about over doing it since I had no way to accurately measure how much of it each fish ate. 

Efficacy of albendazole, levamisole and fenben... [Vet Parasitol. 1991] - PubMed - NCBI
Efficacies of fenbendazole and levamisole in the treatment of commercial turkeys for Ascaridia dissimilis infections


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Drop a note to Charles, if only to have a fun discussion Lucillia. He's a retired chemist with a PhD, and loves to talk shop. Some years back I had a table across from him at a swap up in Madison, one of the very few times I can say I appreciated selling at a slow event. He'd be able to tell you the advantages & disadvantages of the meds you've mentioned.


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## ShukiAi (Feb 15, 2012)

Lucillia said:


> Ahh scratch that. I just asked my vet teacher and she said the last time she used it was years ago and it was a compound for horses. The most likely form you will find in local places if you can find it will be in compound.


Thank you for the info! :-D


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

We are treating fish not mammals the differences are many including the environment they are in. A food born med like fenbendazole especially self prepared can be very difficult to use correctly and to actually get the fish to eat. If you have fish that are not eating as many more serious cases do then it will not get you very far. You need to calculate the med to food ratio then the fish to food ratio. Also the issue with how quickly the food needs to be eaten especially pre soaked food. Unless you are treating the water as well fenbendazole is definitely not guarantied to kill parasites outside of the treated fish. Its also poorly absorbed into the body. Along with the long treatment time.

Levamisole you treat the whole tank and the med is easily enough absorb it does not even need to be consumed by the fish. It also boosts immune system function in fish. And it the case of treating camallanus in fish it is by far the quickest, easiest, and most effective med you can use. Along with being very safe on fish. I seriously deworm all my new fish with levamisole at least once as a preventative. That includes my own wild caught panda garras as well.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Yup, medicating fish isn't medicating turkeys. Seriously, drop Charles a line, he's a wealth of info. He isn't getting any younger, and if you're interested in the aquatic end of veterinary science he should be on your list. We need more fish vets!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I appreciate everyone's input here but let's keep in mind that things change over the years. Unless Charles continuously still attends seminars and classes then it is very possible that he's not up to date on these medications.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I will have one last statement here as I will not tolerate ignorance. Turkeys are not mammals. We use these medications throughout the animal kingdom whether its a lagamorph or even us. The environment does change how the drugs may be administered yes but it does not change the drugs we use. We can still p.o. bid with fish just the same as I would do for a cat or dog. Age does not mean knowledge. It just means you're old. 

And I already have a specialist in ichthyology I hold in very high regard and is also a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine.. no offense, but that is where I will pull my knowledge from. If you like I can give her a call and see which she thinks will prove more effective. I try not to bug her too much unless its life or death for my large fish. 

Also; this is why we add things like garlic to stimulate appetite. My angel did not eat the first round and only a small amount the second. He is the worst effected and now after the last treatment has started to gain weight again.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> I appreciate everyone's input here but let's keep in mind that things change over the years. Unless Charles continuously still attends seminars and classes then it is very possible that he's not up to date on these medications.


He might be, he might not be, e-mail costs nothing. Seeing as he's Mike Hellweg's go to guy for meds that should be more than good enough for any of us. Plenty of the big players in aquatics go to him when there's an issue, if anyone here thinks they're a step above Mike I'd really like to know about it.

Another source of info is the National Fish Pharmacy help line, this will cost you a long distance call. They deal more with the commercial hatcheries, but work with hobbyists as well. I've called them plenty of times on behalf of others. They're DVM's that deal solely with aquatics.

Can't blame you for not tolerating ignorance Lucilla, I rarely do. Don't get stuck to one source of info, so much of the higher end of aquatics is having a long list of resources to work off of. I've had plenty of family in the medical field, and this may apply to the veterinary field; don't step up to a position you're not qualified for, you risk looking like an ass at least, and providing dangerous information at worst. The unit secretary thinks she's a nurse, the nurse thinks she's a doctor. Seems it usually takes about 20 years in the field to get past this, and realize certain situations are beyond them. 

From what I'm getting here you're younger (everyone seems to be younger than me lately!) and a veterinary student, that in itself is an awesome thing, and by your passion you seem to have an awesome future. Don't get stuck in that rut early on, and please don't take 20 years to get out of it if you're heading that way, it's to your benefit.


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## ShukiAi (Feb 15, 2012)

Oh boy... I didn't know creating this thread would turn into a medication argument. But the insight on both sides is very interesting. And thank you for being civil with your arguments. 
Like I said, I think I'll be sticking with Fenbendazole for now since I can run to the store and get it... but I think I'll be ordering the Levamisole online as well. Hopefully one way or another I'll wipe these worms out. I love having guppies, and they are supposedly known to be carriers of these worms. So maybe in the future I'll have to deal with this again. Blah, what a pain!
Thank you again to everyone who has responded and giving me insight on what to do. It's very helpful! ^_^


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## RackinRocky (Feb 11, 2012)

I used Fenben three times, two weeks apart. I had seen Camallanus worms in a couple of my fish, and one had died from it. From what I've read, the worms don't show in the vent until the fish has had them for months. I had already researched, and had Fenben on the way when I happened to read from another source that levamisole is better for these worms. Well, I was short on cash that month, so I went ahead and used the Fenben. It's been about 6 weeks, and I have seen no more evidence of the worms, but there is always the possibility that my fish still have it, and it just hasn't shown itself yet. 

I contacted Charles when my Fenben was already on the way, and he recommended levamisole, of course. He said that Fenben DOES NOT kill the nematodes. I told him I'd go ahead and use the Fenben since I'd already ordered it, but if I get any more signs of these nasty worms, I'm going straight to him for levamisole!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Quoting information about Fenben and Levamisole:

"Benzimidazoles

The first chemical class of modern anthelmintics developed was the benzimidazoles (BZD). The first drug in this class, thiabendazole (TBZ) was introduced in 1961. In addition to thiabendazole (which is no longer sold), this chemical class includes fenbendazole(Safeguard®), albendazole(Valbazen®), and oxyfendazole (Synanthic®). Benzimidazoles interfere with the worm's energy metabolism on a cellular level.

They bind to a specific building block called beta tubulin and prevent its incorporation into certain cellular structures called microbutbules, which are essential for energy metabolism. Interfering with energy metabolism is a much more basic mode of activity than the other classes of dewormers. For this reason, benzimidazoles are also able to kill worm eggs. Benzimidazoles have a wide margin of safety and broad spectrum activity."

Nicotinic Agonists

"Imidazothiaoles have a similar mode of action as pyrantel and morantel, causing spastic paralyis of the worms. The group includes the drug levamisole (Prohibit®, Tramisol®, and Levasol®). In addition to being used as an anthelmintic for animals, levamisole has been used to treat various human diseases: colon cancer, melanoma and head and neck cancer, and influenza. It was discovered in 1966.

Compared to other anthelmintics, levamisole has the narrowest margin of safety, though toxicity is usually the result of excess dosage. Levamisole has a broad spectrum of activity and is effective against many larval stages of parasites, though not arrested larvae. It is currently off the market."

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/anthelminticswork.html


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

/facepalm


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## elbeeaz (Apr 15, 2014)

I just finished treating my tank for these horrible devil worms... How is your treatment going?


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## RackinRocky (Feb 11, 2012)

Apparently, the Fenben did the trick. Of course, its only October, so its only been a couple of months since I treated, but not one fish (and I have, what... 15 fish in that tank) shows any worms. It can takes months though, until the worms are seen. If I see any more worms in anyone's vent at this point, the first thing I'm doing is ordering levamisole from Charles! Elbeeaz, what did you use to treat?


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## elbeeaz (Apr 15, 2014)

Woo hoo! that's great news RackinRocky! I purchased the Levamisole HCL from Charles and followed his directions exactly as he said. I have another friend who's Angels were also hit with the worms and she also had success with Charles' meds and his directions!  These worms are supposed to be uncommon but I am seeing more and more posts with people trying to identify them and then asking how to rid their fish of them... they are truly the 'devil worm' and thank goodness for Charles...I would have lost all my fish and given up on the hobby if I wouldn't have found his information.


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## RackinRocky (Feb 11, 2012)

Yep, I've also noticed increasing posts about these worms. Yes, we are lucky we have access to the drugs we need to save our fishies! Devil worms is right! Creepy little red things!


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