# My Filter, My Sand, My Problem



## MitchellLion (Mar 30, 2013)

Helllo,
I'm new here, hi, I've had a 60 gallon tank for 2 years now
And from the beginning I've had sand for it. 
The problem is I have gone through filters like you wouldent believe, first couple times I didn't know what broke them.
But after a couple of more times Im pretty sure it's because sand gets clogged and eventually inside the propeller.
I'd rather keep sand then replace it with gravel.
And I'm tired of filters breaking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

What about putting a pre-filter sponge over the intake, to prevent sand from getting sucked straight into the impeller? What kind of filters are you using, the kind that hang on the back or a canister?


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## Rip (Dec 24, 2010)

what kind of filters are you using? maybe switching to a canister or a sponge filter would help.


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

How close is the intake to the sand??? You want it to be a couple inches above the sand. Also you want to turn the filter off if you are going to do anything that's going to stir up the sand. Now this is only for filters that the intake water hits the propeller before hitting the media. Most if not all Hang on Back style filters are this way. 
Other options is like its been mentioned putting a sponge on the intake or buying a Canister filter where the the water is pulled through the media before hitting the motor or propeller. Ehiem Classic series is one there are other brands too, that's just the brand I have and love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Welcome to the forum

Canister filters are impervious to sand - your tank is certainly large enough for one.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

WELCOME TO TFK!!!

I have a couple of Aquaclear 70 HOBs on my 60g and have a [pool filter] sand substrate and have never had a sand problem in the filters. 
Is your sand too fine so it's easily raised off the bottom or as mentioned, is your intake tube too low/close to the surface of the sand?
Perhaps your sand wasn't rinsed/washed well enough to remove the finer sand particles?


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## Sanguinefox (Nov 29, 2011)

AbbeysDad said:


> WELCOME TO TFK!!!
> 
> I have a couple of Aquaclear 70 HOBs on my 60g and have a [pool filter] sand substrate and have never had a sand problem in the filters.
> Is your sand too fine so it's easily raised off the bottom or as mentioned, is your intake tube too low/close to the surface of the sand?
> Perhaps your sand wasn't rinsed/washed well enough to remove the finer sand particles?


I often really wish you would stop pugging Aquaclears. What they were back when they first hit the market is not what they are today. Cheaper parts, flimsier bodies...etc

All my tanks had sand, and even with the intake well pulled away and with well rinsed sand these things would kick the bucket quite easily. I see used ones hitting one of the local stores every day.

To OP, you need to ensure that your intake is well away from the bottom. Putting a pre-intake sponge onto the intake can help but it will be rinsed from time to time. My best suggestion is to get a Canister and get one that pulls water through the canister and through the media first, and then it goes through the impeller/into the tank. This prevents sand from hitting the impeller if any does get in and problem solved.

Don't get Aquaclears unless you want to waste money and time.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

i use marineland filters exclusively, never had problems with them in sand or gravel substrates, but then again i used play sand that i woudl literally spend a hour or two washing before i put into the tank and i also would turn the fitler off for a hr or two if i was doing any planting or leveling from fish digging. which leads me to say even with digging fish never had the problem, also never used a pre filter sponge over the intake and the intake was maybe 2-3 inches from the top of the substrate this was all in a 55gal. have you tried taking the impeller out and cleaning it off? from the marineland filters i use they have no moving parts exposed except the magnetic driven impeller


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Before I converted my tanks to canisters, I battled sand issues with AquaClears in a couple tanks - particularly the one with the caribsea supernaturals moonlight sand. It's beach sand fine and fouled every HOB. With the aquaclears, I had extra filters on hand and would just swap out the motors. I found them easier to clean once they dried.

An example of how fine that sand was - you can see it getting carried away in the water. Switching to a canister solved that problem instantly.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Sanguinefox said:


> I often really wish you would stop pugging Aquaclears.


I was NOT plugging Aquaclear filters, but identifying the exact type of HOB's I use and the fact that I've never had a problem with my [POOL FILTER] SAND. But not all SAND is created equally and if the sand being used is very fine and/or the inlet tube strainer is too close to the surface, then there may well be a problem with sand being drawn in.
I have nothing against canisters but investing $125~ in a canister filter is not the only solution for this problem.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

AbbeysDad said:


> I have nothing against canisters but investing $125~ in a canister filter is not the only solution for this problem.


One need not spend that kind of money on a canister.


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

AbbeysDad said:


> I was NOT plugging Aquaclear filters, but identifying the exact type of HOB's I use and the fact that I've never had a problem with my [POOL FILTER] SAND. But not all SAND is created equally and if the sand being used is very fine and/or the inlet tube strainer is too close to the surface, then there may well be a problem with sand being drawn in.
> I have nothing against canisters but investing $125~ in a canister filter is not the only solution for this problem.


I agree a canister isn't the only solution which is why I stared what I did before. 
On a different note canister for a 60gallon tank is cheaper then $125. I spent less then that for mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

jaysee said:


> One need not spend that kind of money on a canister.


I was merely ball parking which was why I included the tilde ~

To mention the top contenders...

> Eheim Classic is about $85
> Fluval 306 is about $120
> Rena Filstar XP2 is about $100

These are current rounded Amazon prices for canisters suitable for a 60g (assuming free shipping), retail would likely be $20-$40 more. (also presumes they all come with appropriate media).

I like to solve problems at the root cause and If we keep the sand on the bottom where it belongs it won't bother the filter. But if MitchellLion wants to buy a canister filter, it's okay with me as long as he doesn't ask me for the money ;-)

Footnote: This may also be a potential problem for folks with much smaller tanks that can use a solution other than a canister filter.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

You can buy new canisters (with free shipping) for half those prices. But what do I know....


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## Sanguinefox (Nov 29, 2011)

AbbeysDad said:


> I was merely ball parking which was why I included the tilde ~
> 
> To mention the top contenders...
> 
> ...


It's not always possible to "Keep the sand where it belongs" depending upon your stock and set up. Some fish like to play/dig/ around and throw up sand on a regular basis. So while it's all and good to want to keep sand "where it should be" you can't always argue with your fish on that and win.

I could spend quite some time on why hiking up your intake further away from your substrate isn't always the best thing for your tank but that's not really important here. Rather than continue to throw money at temperamental HOBs, OP would be best served by buying a canister, or perhaps doing a canister + sponge filter combination. That way he can save money going with a smaller model and then run the sponge as supplemental. The sponge has amazing benefits.

In fact OP you really could potentially go with an all out duel Sponge Filter system. People often heavily underestimate just how well these Sponge Filters can keep small-mid sized tanks running well. Of course you really need to have a well planted tank for this to be viable.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Sanguinefox said:


> In fact OP you really could potentially go with an all out duel Sponge Filter system. People often heavily underestimate just how well these Sponge Filters can keep small-mid sized tanks running well. Of course you really need to have a well planted tank for this to be viable.


Well, at least your thinking outside the [canister] box. ;-)


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## MitchellLion (Mar 30, 2013)

Thanks for the welcoming 
Yes I got filters that hang off the back
Marineland filters (which broke easier)
And Fluval (which was much quieter but still broke)
I think the best for option for me I think would be to use a sponge around the intake for now and look into buying a canister later,
And yes there are a couple of my fish who kick up sand 
Thanks for all the help this problem was really discouraging me for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

AbbeysDad said:


> I like to solve problems at the root cause and If we keep the sand on the bottom where it belongs it won't bother the filter.


I've found a nice PowerPoint presentation is all that's needed to convince the fish to keep the sand where it belongs ;-)


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

MitchellLion said:


> Thanks for the welcoming
> Yes I got filters that hang off the back
> Marineland filters (which broke easier)
> And Fluval (which was much quieter but still broke)
> ...


Make sure the bottom of your inlet strainer is about 4" from the top of the sand. The sponge prefilter will [also] help solve the problem, but you may find that it will quickly restrict flow and may need rinsing as much as twice a week. Make sure to get at least two so you can swap back and forth quickly and easily.
Also it goes without saying that the filter should be off during water changes and/or whenever you disturb the sand.

Try to ignore the sarcasm posted. Some folks just like to 'debate'. But when somebody reports a flat tire, the first solution isn't necessarily to buy a new Cadillac...not that a new Cadillac wouldn't be nice mind you. ;-)


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Yes, forums are full of people who like to debate, as well as pontificate. The two generally don't mix well though. One need not buy a new cadillac to fix a flat tire - that's just ridiculous.


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

jaysee said:


> Welcome to the forum
> 
> Canister filters are impervious to sand - your tank is certainly large enough for one.



Not true at all, they can still get sand in them.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

The correct metaphor would be getting a different kind of tire if one had a problem with flats, not an entirely new vehicle.


Yes, they can get sand in them, but the sand does not foul the motor. Yes, they are not impervious in that they let sand in. They are impervious in that they are not affected by it. The reason sand fouls HOBs is because the motor is at the bottom. Canisters have their motors on the top.


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## Sanguinefox (Nov 29, 2011)

jaysee said:


> I've found a nice PowerPoint presentation is all that's needed to convince the fish to keep the sand where it belongs ;-)


I'm pretty certain all 14 of my loaches would look at that and then go on a digging spree to spite me.



AbbeysDad said:


> Make sure the bottom of your inlet strainer is about 4" from the top of the sand. The sponge prefilter will [also] help solve the problem, but you may find that it will quickly restrict flow and may need rinsing as much as twice a week. Make sure to get at least two so you can swap back and forth quickly and easily.
> Also it goes without saying that the filter should be off during water changes and/or whenever you disturb the sand.
> 
> Try to ignore the sarcasm posted. Some folks just like to 'debate'. But when somebody reports a flat tire, the first solution isn't necessarily to buy a new Cadillac...not that a new Cadillac wouldn't be nice mind you. ;-)


How nice to know that people disagreeing with you or choosing to want to see things fully talked about/thought through equals "likes to debate". I"m done here. OP I hope that when you do settle down with your new replacement that you no longer have these problems with sand. I know your pain too well having been in the same situation. Not a single HOB on any of my tanks pre-filter sponge or not seemed to be able to handle fish using the bottom like a kid uses a sand box. It's well worth it to save up for a canister.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Sanguinefox said:


> I'm pretty certain all 14 of my loaches would look at that and then go on a digging spree to spite me..


I had to show it to mine twice - stubborn buggers they are.


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

MitchellLion said:


> Thanks for the welcoming
> Yes I got filters that hang off the back
> Marineland filters (which broke easier)
> And Fluval (which was much quieter but still broke)
> ...


. . .Just to throw another option out there, just as Jaysee's (gorgeous) Moonlight sand was very light, there are other sands, like Tahitian Moon, that are of a thicker grain, and thus heavier. This depends on the creatures you keep, of course, so you may need to do some research first. I use this sand with Kuhli loaches and Bolivian Rams - soft bellies and diggers - it doesn't get kicked up like 'normal' sand does with these guys, but they seem to like it just fine.

Adding the sponge asap is a great idea to protect the current filter while you figure out where you're going - you've gotten plenty of great suggestions here - be sure to check back in and let us know how you solve your dilemma (hooray for new cars *ahem* filters)



I always find the debating interesting, provided it stays _kind._ I really do like to hear different takes on the same situation - feel it allows me to gain a deeper understanding from the experience of others, and so I am able to make a better decision about what will work for me, personally. 

Perhaps we should suggest putting a 'hot topic' board up somewhere? We can go back and forth about filtration, water changes, and sumps as much as we like - without making decisions difficult for newer members. . .

Kind of feeling bad for whoever gets stuck moderating over there, though ;-)


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi MitchellLion and welcome to the forum.

I've had similar problems with my AquaClears, as I have sand too.

First, can I ask how you clean your tank? Do you stir up a lot of sand as you clean? If you do, then I'd recommend this approach:

First turn off the filter. Stir up the sand as much as you wish cleaning. Let the sand settle before turning the filter back on. 

Some marine keepers recommend this approach as it stirs up the detritus more than just hovering the siphon over the surface of the sand.

If you have very fine sand like Moonlight (I've had that before), you may want to try a prefilter sponge to help keep such fine sand out. 

If you have fish that like to dig, I would actually recommend raising the intake a little higher than normal and relying on your weekly vacuuming to get the detritus off the sand surface. Better than sucking the sand in, eh?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

As much as I like the idea of the sponge filters, I didn't know about that option when I started my aquarium list. With my plants it would have been a definite option.

No matter the initial cost of a canister, going through two HOBs is already more expensive than one canister setup even if you spend a little more on it. The water flow is different but there are more options in setting up the out flow between being able to direct it and/or use spray bars and nozzles (depending on the make they come with one or the other) but changing it with an after market or DIY device is an option.

I was going to go with aquaclear and would plug that model as we have had one on the office tank for years.... well overs five anyway. The flow is adjustable, media is configurable, it's reasonably quite for an HOB (it's in a 24 hour operation, we would have heard about it if it were noisy) and it just works. I guess I can't speak for the new models, although I have my doubts that they will spontaneously break without a little help with leverage along the way.

Jeff.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Once again this was not about Aquaclear as it's magnetic driven impeller is no different than most other HOB's. I merely described that I have a HOB and sand and never have sand in the filter. But I have pool filter sand that I leave undisturbed and my fish and flow rates can't kick the sand high enough to get to the inlet strainer that is about 3-4" from the surface of the sand.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

nylon sock around the intake with rubber band? shoudl be fine enogh to block it yet not as bulky as a sponge at the end of the intake


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