# german blue rams dying over the past two days



## pandamonium (Jan 13, 2012)

hey everyone,

I have lost 3 german blue rams over the past two days and i have no idea why. my tank had a bout of ich and it is nearing the end of treatment. i have the temperature at 86 degrees with coppersafe in the water as well. i see no more ich spots on the fish and will be keeping the temperature up until wednesday with doing a water change as scheduled on sunday (2 weeks instead of 1). right now my issue is the rams dying. no other fish has died in this time.

1. Size of tank? 
*40 gallon breeder*

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia? 
*0 ppm (tested today 6/25 after finding the dead ram)*
b. Nitrite? 
*0 ppm (tested today 6/25 after finding the dead ram)*
c. Nitrate? 
*between 5 and 10 ppm (tested 6/24)*
d. pH, KH and GH? 
*pH = 7.2-7.4
KH = 3 dKH
GH = 6 dGH
all tested last week*
e. Test kit?
*API freshwater master kit*

3. Temperature?
*86º due to ich treatment. normal temperature is 81º*

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? 
*full freshwater. did not use salt in ich treatment*

5. How long the aquarium has been set up?
*since may 14th so about 5 weeks now*

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?
*2 honeycomb catfish (centromochlus perugiae) i died from ich
1 lone hatchetfish (others died i think from trauma when jumping/escaping)
3 remaining german blue rams*

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?
*yes all fish were quarantined for about a week. placed into the tank 4 weeks ago*

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?
*amazon frogbit, brazilian pennywort, java moss*

b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?
*sand *

c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?
*3 pieces malaysian driftwood*

9. a. Filtration?
*eheim ecco pro 2232*

b. Heater?
*eheim jager 150W (DIY inline)*

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?
*lights on at 1130am and off at 10pm. lights are 4 13W 6500K CFL bulbs
*
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long?
*half of tank is by window (curtains are closed based on weather)*

11. a. Water change schedule?
*20% weekly (right now, none due to ich treatment)*

b. Volume of water changed?
*8 gallons*

c. Well water, tap water, RO water?
*tap water
*
d. Water conditioner used?
*nutrafin aqua plus conditioner
*
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?
*same with water change
*
12. Foods?
*bloodworms, brine shrimp, hikari micro pellets. lately, only hikari micropellets. bloodworms after dark for catfish
*
How often are they fed?
*twice a day, morning after lights on and night about 1.5 hours before lights out
*
13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
*none
*
b. Appearance of poop?
*normal
*
c. Appearance of gills?
*fast but was fast when i bought them 5 weeks ago.
*
14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? 
*yes
*
b. What meds were used?
*coppersafe for ich only
*
15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.


i have an inkling it might have been tank aggression from the rams but thought i would give it a try. maybe the rams were stressed by lack of dither fish, but they were fine for 5 weeks. and by fine, i mean that they were swimming, foraging and i even had a single spawn within 2 weeks of getting them. i bought them locally bred as well so they were adjusted to my tap water. 
thanks again


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## Varkolak (Jun 9, 2012)

I was going to say the ph may be too high but locally bred throws that out, and they thrive in 80's so thats not really the issue - maybe they were just too stressed from moving from quarantine to the main tank and then exposed to the ich and medication plus temp change just was too much to handle for the weaker ones in the span of only a couple weeks


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

After looking at data from your area, (google) the average pH range is 8.2 to 8.6. and is maybe quite high in total dissolved solids but the area is large .( low total dissolved solids important for keeping these fish healthy long term)
Maybe you could get water report from your local municipality?
Does water from your tap pass through water softener ?
Does breeder treat water with anything to soften it? (some treat 50/50 tapwater R/O water for breeding )


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## pandamonium (Jan 13, 2012)

Varkolak said:


> I was going to say the ph may be too high but locally bred throws that out, and they thrive in 80's so thats not really the issue - maybe they were just too stressed from moving from quarantine to the main tank and then exposed to the ich and medication plus temp change just was too much to handle for the weaker ones in the span of only a couple weeks


that might be it. the thing that perplexes me is that they were doing fine both in quarantine and in the new tank. they were already in the new tank for about 3 weeks without any sign of something bad. then all of a sudden, they start to die. the ich happened as they were in the tank. i guess its because some of the were weak to begin with. but the one that died when i made this post was one of the larger ones that had spawned before. 



1077 said:


> After looking at data from your area, (google) the average pH range is 8.2 to 8.6. and is maybe quite high in total dissolved solids but the area is large .( low total dissolved solids important for keeping these fish healthy long term)
> Maybe you could get water report from your local municipality?
> Does water from your tap pass through water softener ?
> Does breeder treat water with anything to soften it? (some treat 50/50 tapwater R/O water for breeding )


im actually not in san francisco, i am in a city close by it right near the ocean. the pH of my water supply is also high but when i tested the pH, it got lower to about 7.2-7.4 the only reason i give a range is that when i did the normal pH test, it was at the high end. and when i did the high end pH test, it was at the low end. 
water reports i have tried to find, the last one was from 2010, though when i did water tests on KH, GH and all, the numbers seemed to match still. 
i do not think it passes through a water softener, though i am not positive. i do think that it may pass through something that raises pH though, since the KH is low, but the pH is high. i read that the two are almost related in a way. pH will change more if KH is low. thats another thought i had.
the breeder was in san francisco and did not treat the water. he did water changes while the ram were in the fry stage very frequently. but again it is strange to me how they were fine up until 2 weeks ago. conincidentally, 2 weeks ago, it looked like the 2 large rams were trying to spawn, which is why i thought it was violence. i know for certain, one of the rams died from fighting as i was browsing the tank at night and saw him very beat up. died the next day.


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