# New fish, three different concerns (with pics)



## Torn (Apr 12, 2008)

1. Size of aquarium (# of gallons) *30*
2. Is your aquarium setup freshwater or brackish water? *Freshwater.*
3. How long the aquarium has been set up? *It was fully cycled on the 18th May.*
4. What fish and how many are in the aquarium (species are important to know) *11 Neon Tetras and some pond snails.*
5. Are there live plants in the aquarium? *Yes*
6. What temperature is the tank water currently? *27C/80F*
7. What make/model filter are you using? *Eheim Classic 2213 external filter.*
8. Are you using a CO2 unit? *No*
9. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? *It's in quite a sunny room but it's about 8ft from the window so the tank doesn't get direct sunlight.*
10. When did you perform your last water exchange, and how much water was changed? *2 days ago, 25%*
11. How often do you perform water changes? *I was going to be doing weekly water changes of 25% but I've done them a bit more often to keep the nitrates down.*
12. How often and what foods do you feed your fish? *Once a day, skipping one day a week. Flake foods mainly with freeze dried brineshrimp and daphnia as treats.*
13. What type of lighting are you using and how long is it kept on? *Fluorescent, 12 hrs a day.*
14. What specific concerns bring you here at this time? *One fish's colour fading, rapid breathing and white spot issues, see below for details.*
15. What are your water parameters? Test your pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. *PH - 7.6, Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, Nitrate - 20*
16. What test kit are you using and is it liquid or test strips? *API liquid test kit*
17. When was the last time you bought a fish and how did they behave while in the pet store tank? *Saturday 26th May, they seemed fine, I couldn't see any sick looking fish in the tank. I probably didn't inspect them as well as I should have though.  *

Hello, my tank just finished cycling last week and I added 6 Neon Tetras on Monday 19th and I tested the water and there was still no ammonia or nitrite so I added 5 more on Saturday 26th (I asked for 4 but he gave me 5 by accident). On the Sunday I noticed that one of the fish was missing the tip of his tail and it looked a bit white, thinking it was fin rot I went and bought Interpet's fungus and fin rot treatment and added it to the tank. It looked much better the next day so I'm not sure if it actually was fin rot, it seemed to go away so quickly. Now today, I can see 3 little white spots on the same fish and it's breathing rapidly, but not gasping at the surface. The white spots are on the top of his head, one the the gill and one on his side. Another fish's red colour is faded and is also breathing quickly and another one's neon blue stripe stops and starts. Where the blue stripe stops, there is a slight lump, this fish has been this way since I got it, is it anything to worry about? Here's some pics, I couldn't get one of the fish with white spots.

Other than the interrupted blue stripe, this fish is acting normally. 










The fish on the right has faded red colour and has rapid breathing but the blue/green stripe is still bright.










So now I'm not sure what to do, I have a carbon pad for my filter that I'm not using, I could use that to get rid of the fin rot medication, then treat for white spot? All of my fish are still eating well and apart from the three fish mentioned above all other fish seem healthy.
I bought Neon Tetras as my LFS didn't have any Cardinals for sale and the guy there told me that Neons are more hardy anyway... 
It's probably something I've done wrong and I'm sorry if it is, please tell me how I can make them better.


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## Torn (Apr 12, 2008)

Sorry, I meant Saturday 24th May. It's late ok?! :wink: 
Goodnight!


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

If you have a hospital tank I suggest you utilize it immediately with any sick fish you see. If you don't, well, you need to go buy one. Have you noticed that these fish are a bit more restless than the others and swim all night? Your problem sounds like it could be neon tetra disease, which there are no treatments since the parasites have become resistant to any effective treatments. Get them out of that tank.

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/neondisease.htm

The only mistake you made was listening to the LFS. Ironically, Cardinals are immune to this disease. And odds are the parasites were in the burrowing stage at the time of purchase.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

It just looks typical columnaris, a gram-negative bacterial infection. You need Maracyn (erythromycin) here. Need to isolate the fish in a hospital tank as suggested by Flashygrrl.

I might add that your temperature is far too high for neons and at this temperature, the bacterial infection can progress easily. Keep it steady at 74-76 degrees Fahrenheit.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

See, I figured NTD because of the lump mentioned on one of the fish.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Flashygrrl said:


> See, I figured NTD because of the lump mentioned on one of the fish.


Hmmm..It would be great if there is a close-up pic for that lump. Could be a nematode, carcinoma or even tumor. Usually it goes away on its own but as this tends to happen internally, treating it especially with a small fish would be very difficult.


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## Torn (Apr 12, 2008)

Thank you for your replies. 
Oh dear....NTD, thanks for the link. The two fish that are gasping don't seem more restless than the others at night, they do seem a bit sluggish compared to the others though. The one with the little lump still seems fine. I noticed the fish with faded colour has actually been gasping at the surface today, the other one with the missing part on his tail doesn't do this but he hides quite a bit. The white spots have gone today. From pictures I've seen on the internet, it looked like ich to me, like little grains of salt stuck to the fish. If it is/was ich, would I not have to treat the whole tank for that? If so, what about the fin rot med, should I remove it with carbon first?

I do have a 10 gallon tank in the bedroom but it hasn't finished cycling yet, the readings are:
PH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0.50
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5 (same as tap water)

It has a mix of fine and coarse gravel, an ornament, a small piece of bogwood and a few live plants, would this be suitable for a hospital tank? Should I also seperate the one with the little lump even though he's acting ok? Sorry I tried to get a pic of it, but you couldn't see it. It's only a slightly raised area, it doesn't stick out far at all.

I'll cool the temperature slowly on the main tank. 
Thanks for your help.


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## Torn (Apr 12, 2008)

Update: I just found the fish with the faded colour dead on the aquarium floor.  Before he died, he was having trouble swimming, he just seemed to be floating, getting pushed around by the current. Some of the other fish were pecking at him too, then I couldn't see him for a while and had the net ready to take him out but I was too late. I removed the other fish that was gasping and he's currently in a jug of the main tank water, I guess I'll put him in the 10 gallon by himself now. I won't put the fish with the little lump in just yet, until I'm told otherwise. I've just fed the remaining fish and they are all eating and looking good.


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

You should definitely add the carbon back in to remove any medications before treating with anything else.

Also, Maracyn will very likely knock out your biological filtration (although you may get lucky, sometimes it doesn't). So you'll have to watch your water parameters *very* carefully when treating with that.


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## Torn (Apr 12, 2008)

Thanks okiemavis, I'll do that. I might as well put the lone Neon in the 10 gallon back in the main tank as all of my fish are gasping today. 
I live in the UK and I can't find any Maracyn, I've read that they don't sell it here but I can get it shipped over from the US via ebay. I don't think my fish have that long, is there anything else I could use?

Unfortunately I live in quite a small town and although it has two pet shops, they're both pretty useless when it comes to fish meds. Neither of them sell live pets so I had to buy my fish from a store that's 20 miles away. They sell a good amount of medications but I don't drive so I won't be able to get there until the weekend when my boyfriend can drive me. I'm going to look in the local pet shops today but I need to know what to look for, any suggestions please? :?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

For signs of NTD, bring a flashlight at night and observe the fish in the dark. If one neon is swimming restlessly while the rest are "asleep", then this could be a sign of NTD. It's just one of the signs of NTD.


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## Torn (Apr 12, 2008)

Thank you Lupin, I tried that and none of them seemed restless, a couple of them swam away but soon settled down again.

I cleaned the filter foam using water from the tank today, it's the first time I've done it and it was filthy! I also added a carbon pad to remove the fin rot med. Because I took about 15% water from the tank, I topped it up with clean water. That was a few hours ago now and all of my fish's breathing has slowed dramatically! Maybe it was the medication that caused it? I put in less than it said to though. Anyway, I'm glad that's over with but I've noticed the white spots on the fish are back now, even the one in the 10 gallon, he has the most (about 7). They only have a few each and it looks exactly like this:

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/ich.htm

Ever since I had my fish every now and then they would go up to a plant leaf (usually the dwarf anubias) and flip over quickly, rubbing their side against it. I didn't think much of it and now they're doing it more often, another sign of ich? I bought some white spot treatment in case that's what it is. It says the active ingredients per 100mls are: Formaldehyde 4,500mg and Malachite Green Oxalate 50mg.
Should I use this and is it safe for Tetras? How long should I wait for the carbon to get the other medication out of the water?

Any help appreciated, thank you.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

I suggest PMing bettababy and asking her about the meds as she would know quite a bit about it.


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Maracyn is just a US brand of Erythromycin. Unfortunately, I just researched for a very long time, and couldn't find a UK brand that carried that. Perhaps you will be more successful asking around your LFS, or it may be more controlled in the UK. Erythromycin treats for gram-positive infections, so if you can't find EM, try to find another gram-positive medication.


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## Torn (Apr 12, 2008)

I've just PMed bettababy, thanks Flashygrrl. 

Thank you for researching for me okiemavis! I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to be treating for columnaris or white spot though? :?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I just got the pm, and just finished reading through everything in this thread.

My opinion, it sounds like an ich outbreak, starting slowly but escalating quickly. The white spots, the scratching, the loss of color, the heavy breathing... all an indication of the parasite. 

While the Formaldehyde in your meds is safe in lower dosages for neons, the malachite green is not. The preferred method of treatment for something like this would be a medication called Formalin, which is just Formaldehyde... but it is only going to be safe for neons at 1/2 the suggested dosage. (suggested dosage is 2 drops per gallon, you'll want to use 1 drop per gallon) 
I would suggest treating the qt'd fish in the quarantine tank and waiting until everyone is well again before moving it back to the main tank. You'll also want to add an air stone to the main tank during treatment because Formaldehyde will use a fair amount of the oxygen in the water. I wouldn't worry about the 10 gallon with only 1 fish in it, but the main tank has quite a good size population.

Stress is your biggest issue. The stress of being moved, the stress of a new tank, the stress of 5 more coming into the tank after only about a wk...stress from medication that may or may not have been safe... Neons are prone to stress related illnesses, and ich is usually brought on by stress because stress weakens the immune system, which causes an inability to fight the parasite naturally. 

Also, 78 - 80 is the temp I would be suggesting for keeping neons. If you get too cold, again you compromise the immune system. 

Best of luck to you, and if you have other questions or concerns, please ask away. If you should notice any new symptoms, please post them asap.


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## Torn (Apr 12, 2008)

Thank you bettababy, that's really cleared up my confusion.  
Excellent information and much appreciated, I'll get on it right away!


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## lyannedocherty (Jul 4, 2008)

*Oxygen levels in your tank*

Im not sure but as well as your fish having Ich (white spot) it also sounds like your oxygen levels are not sufficient in your tank which explains why the fish are gasping for air. When you did the water change this put oxygen in the tank with the new water, thats why they stopped gasping and not because you removed the medication...

Ways you can oxygenate the water:
Use an under-gravel bubble tube. This is a tube that bubbles can seap through thus putting oxgen in the water
Also, make sure your filter is positioned in a way that it ripples the surface of the water, this also put oxygen in

These are the easiest and best ways i have found


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