# Is my Veiled Angelfish ill or being bullied?



## SummerDawn (Apr 23, 2012)

Reposting. I apologize profusely for not filling out the form earlier. I'm new here, and I was at work and panicked when my fiancee called me saying my new Angelfish's condition was getting worse. Hopefully I can find someone who can help me. 

1. Size of tank?: 75 gallon long.

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia? 0
b. Nitrite? 0
c. Nitrate? Roughly 10.
d. pH, KH and GH? PH is 7.8. 
e. Test kit? API Master Kit.

3. Temperature?: 80 degrees F.

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? : Freshwater.

5. How long the aquarium has been set up?: Roughly six weeks.

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?: Six fish in this tank. One Senegal Bichir (3.5-4", had him for two months [was in a 30 gallon prior]), one Red Tailed Black Shark (3", had him/her for two months, was also in the 30 gallon), one Pictus Catfish (3.5", had him for two weeks), one Opaline Gourami (3", had her for two weeks), and one Veiled Angelfish (1.5", had her for two days).

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?: Not in my tanks.

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?: Two fake plants (put them in there initially for territory markers) and four live plants (four miscellaneous medium plants purchased from Top Fin that I have yet to identify).
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?: Silica sand.
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?: One large rock cave with many openings, one aquarium decoration (skull), one hollow log, one hollow floating aquarium log, five river rocks.

9. a. Filtration?: Emperior Bio Wheel 400 with two filter cartridges and two media cartridges, both filled with polyfiber.
b. Heater?: Yes, heats up to 90 gal.

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?: Lights are turned on at 9 am, off at 9pm after feeding. I use a 48" Tropic Sun light from Zoo Med.
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long?: They are in a garage with one window so there is indirect sunlight exposure during the daylight hours.

11. a. Water change schedule?: Weekly.
b. Volume of water changed?: 20% weekly, 30% monthly.
c. Well water, tap water, RO water?: Tap water.
d. Water conditioner used?: Stress Coat.
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?: Bi-monthly.

12. Foods?: Frozen (thawed before feeding) bloodworms and Hikari bottomfeeder pellets daily. One slice of cucumber weekly. Freeze dried bloodwords and shrimp served sparingly as treats, relatively three times a week.
How often are they fed?: Listed above.

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?: The Angelfish is the one with an issue. I brought her home two days ago, on Saturday. The next day I noticed a chunk missing from her dorsal fin and guessed it may have either been nipped prior to my purchase of her, or during the night before. However today, her dorsal fin's condition has deteriorated further. It is currently only her dorsal fin affected. I have a 30 gallon tank which currently houses a small Blood Parrot. I can move the BP into the 75 and move the Angel into the 30 for now to quarantine her if an illness is suspected.
b. Appearance of poop?: Normal, I believe. Thin strings of pale brown feces.
c. Appearance of gills?: Normal.

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis?: No.
b. What meds were used?: None.

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.

http://i42.tinypic.com/1etg9f.jpg <-- Full tank shot
http://i42.tinypic.com/1zb7y8k.jpg <-- My Veiled Angel with deteriorating dorsal fin.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

PH of 7.8 is high, it should be 6.5-7.0 range for angels.Senegal Bichir 3.5-4", one Red Tailed Black Shark 3", one Pictus Catfish 3.5", one Opaline Gourami. all of them are semi aggressive and fin nippers plus all are bigger then the angelfish.
get the angel out or it will die in there.either from stress or being eaten.


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## SummerDawn (Apr 23, 2012)

kitten_penang said:


> PH of 7.8 is high, it should be 6.5-7.0 range for angels.Senegal Bichir 3.5-4", one Red Tailed Black Shark 3", one Pictus Catfish 3.5", one Opaline Gourami. all of them are semi aggressive and fin nippers plus all are bigger then the angelfish.
> get the angel out or it will die in there.either from stress or being eaten.


It's at 7.6 now. And while it's high, it's better to have stable water conditions than to fluctuate it with chemicals that will stress the fish. I took the Angel out for about a week and put her in her own 30 gallon. She's since been put back in the 75 and is growing her fin back rapidly. My Bichir is extremely docile and has never nipped another fish. I've had him for over six months. My RTS will occasionally chase my Clown Loaches, but has never nipped anything. And my Pictus is the least aggressive of all. He hides under my rock arch and only comes out to feed. After talking to a friend, I believe my Angel was hanging out in the current from the filter and harming herself. I have since added a power head / current maker for my Clown Loaches, which she seems to prefer and is not as powerful. Like I said, her fins are growing back rapidly and she is in good shape. By the way, in case you weren't aware, Veiled Angela grow to over 6" tall and are quite a bit too large for any of the other fish, even at their adult sizes, to eat. The tank is very peaceful now. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SummerDawn (Apr 23, 2012)

kitten_penang said:


> PH of 7.8 is high, it should be 6.5-7.0 range for angels.Senegal Bichir 3.5-4", one Red Tailed Black Shark 3", one Pictus Catfish 3.5", one Opaline Gourami. all of them are semi aggressive and fin nippers plus all are bigger then the angelfish.
> get the angel out or it will die in there.either from stress or being eaten.


Oh, I forgot to address my Gourami. He is also quite sweet and is more than happy to share the expanse of the upper swimming area with my Angel. They have plenty of room and I often see them swimming together. And he will not, according to all I have spoken with, grow bigger than my Angel. And certainly not the RTS, who grows to a max of 4", or the Pictus, who rarely grow above 5". Also, although docile by comparison to many, Angels are still Cichlids and are considered to be semi-aggressive themselves. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

well if you says it's ok then good for you =) not all fishes are the same in behavior so check their requirements first before adding fishes next time and you'll have nothing to worry about in the future.good luck with the tank.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

SummerDawn said:


> It's at 7.6 now. And while it's high, it's better to have stable water conditions than to fluctuate it with chemicals that will stress the fish. I took the Angel out for about a week and put her in her own 30 gallon. She's since been put back in the 75 and is growing her fin back rapidly. My Bichir is extremely docile and has never nipped another fish. I've had him for over six months. My RTS will occasionally chase my Clown Loaches, but has never nipped anything. And my Pictus is the least aggressive of all. He hides under my rock arch and only comes out to feed. After talking to a friend, I believe my Angel was hanging out in the current from the filter and harming herself. I have since added a power head / current maker for my Clown Loaches, which she seems to prefer and is not as powerful. Like I said, her fins are growing back rapidly and she is in good shape. By the way, in case you weren't aware, Veiled Angela grow to over 6" tall and are quite a bit too large for any of the other fish, even at their adult sizes, to eat. The tank is very peaceful now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with Kitten, 
While the Angelfish will indeed grow to six plus inches with good care, It is only one and a half inches now according to you.(Too small to protect itself)
With the exception of the clown loaches,, (fairly active all the time)the other fish you have do indeed as you say, hide a lot during the day but this all changes at night after light's are off and these fish become more active.
It is during this time when active /aggressive nature of fishes could be taking a toll on other fishes (ie) damage to fin's, and or simply stressing the other fish to point that it becomes more vulernable to secondary infections at other wise mildly damaged area's.
This seem's to be the case as the fish began to quickly heal according to you, after being removed for a week.
Is quite a bit of room for the Gourami and Angelfish to co-exist (or not), but I would expect trouble as the Bichir grow's, and also trouble from the Red tail shark as they become increasingly annoyed with the constant exploring /intrusion's to their territory from the clown loaches. 
Long delicate fins of Angelfish make inviting target's for the red tail shark and clown loaches as well who also on occasion nip at said slow ,long finned fishes.
Clown loaches appreciate oxygen rich water with moderate to strong movement to remain healthy, and this movement may prove to be not so much enjoyed by the Angelfish or Angelfishes.
Am pleased the small angelfish is recovering but I am doubtful that flow from filter had anything to do with fin damge and am more iclined to suspect damage by any one of the other tankmates while leaning heavily towards the redtail shark or bichir, despite you preriodic observation's and assurances.


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