# Fish for the upper half



## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I was at the LFS and spotted something I had not seen before, rhombo barbs. Now, I want them. Since my research suggests that they stay in the lower half of the tank, I'd like suggestions for fish that stay in the top half of the tank.

Here is what I plan on keeping, rhombo barbs, kubotia loaches and panda garra. My water parameters are 7.4 pH, 9 GH and 8 KH. I'd like upper half fish that reach at least 2.5 inches but not much over 4 inches max.

Any suggestions?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

What size tank do you have?


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

jaysee said:


> What size tank do you have?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't have one yet. I'm thinking about 75 gallon minimum though. I spotted a supposed 100 gallon in the local classifieds. As soon as the seller gets back to me on the dimensions of the tank, I will know for certain what size it actually is.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I also plan on keeping live plants. Easy to keep plants like anubias, Java ferns, Java moss, etc...


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

4 foot tank is ideal, for sure. 75/90 is a good footprint.

My favorite schooling fish for the top half of the tank are rainbows. In my opinion they are the complete package - attractive, active and inquisitive.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

jaysee said:


> 4 foot tank is ideal, for sure. 75/90 is a good footprint.
> 
> My favorite schooling fish for the top half of the tank are rainbows. In my opinion they are the complete package - attractive, active and inquisitive.
> 
> ...



Ive never kept rainbows. I know their are several different species. Any particular suggestions?


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

The 100 gallon in question is supposed to be a cube. Seller listed the dimensions of the stand and tank combined. 32 inches long X 32 inches wide X 50 inches tall. I'm thinking the tank will be more like 31 X 31 X 24


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

In my experience they’re all pretty much the same as far as behavior and temperament, so it’s a matter of what colors you want. In a 4 foot tank, I would suggest going with a larger school of a smaller species, such as the dwarf neon rainbow. One of the best things about keeping rainbows is watching their social dynamic, which is why I suggest the larger school. If you got your hands on a 6 ft tank I would be suggesting the larger species. Where I live the larger rainbow species are quite expensive - $15 a piece. Too, they’re not all always available. The dwarf neon rainbows, on the other hand, are widely available all the time and cost a fraction as much.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

HazMatt said:


> The 100 gallon in question is supposed to be a cube. Seller listed the dimensions of the stand and tank combined. 32 inches long X 32 inches wide X 50 inches tall. I'm thinking the tank will be more like 31 X 31 X 24




I would pass on that tank without a second thought. Tall tanks have very limited use. Fish swim side to side so the most important dimension is the length, followed by the width. Height is least important.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I also saw a strange 55 gallon listed, it's like a 55 on its side... 48 long X 20 wide X 13.5 tall. If it were 15+ inches tall I would jump all over it.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Height is least important, but 13 inches isn’t going to work. When you account for the substrate and the air gap at the top, there’s not much room. Would be a really nice species tank.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

jaysee said:


> Height is least important, but 13 inches isn’t going to work. When you account for the substrate and the air gap at the top, there’s not much room. Would be a really nice species tank.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



That's exactly what I was thinking. My perfect tank, for my apartment, would be 48 inches Long X 20 inches Wide X 18-20 inches Tall. To bad no one made that a standard size.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

With some relatively quick research, I found a couple rainbows I like the look of, Lake Tebera Rainbow fish and Axelrodi Rainbow. They might be the same fish.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

HazMatt said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking. My perfect tank, for my apartment, would be 48 inches Long X 20 inches Wide X 18-20 inches Tall. To bad no one made that a standard size.




Have you considered contacting a glass shop? No idea how much the 5 pieces would cost but worth a phone call perhaps.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

HazMatt said:


> With some relatively quick research, I found a couple rainbows I like the look of, Lake Tebera Rainbow fish and Axelrodi Rainbow. They might be the same fish.




I kept the yellow rainbows - very nice fish. They are in the $15 category, so a school is going to cost over $100. You might be able to get them online cheaper. Aquabid is a good site.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

jaysee said:


> Have you considered contacting a glass shop? No idea how much the 5 pieces would cost but worth a phone call perhaps.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



There is a custom aquarium shop in the area but, I don't really want to spend $250+ on just the tank.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

jaysee said:


> I kept the yellow rainbows - very nice fish. They are in the $15 category, so a school is going to cost over $100. You might be able to get them online cheaper. Aquabid is a good site.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Ahh, yellow rainbowfish would be the common name.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I think I'll give the custom shop a call. It never hurts to ask.


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## Aquafrank (Jul 21, 2018)

Don't know if you use the app "Letgo" but there are hundreds of tanks listed within 20 miles of my home at all times. And I mean LITERALLY hundreds - without exaggeration. Just make sure the tank hasn't been stored outdoors in winter or other harsh conditions and has no leaks, scratches or chips. You can snag a great deal if you have patience, and a little cash. Make sure to inspect the seals.


I got my 75 gallon, plus stand, plus glass top and canister filter for a 1/4 the cost of new...and all components were indistinguishable from brand-new. Be patient, and the exact right equipment will materialize, for sure.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I've been checking Craigslist, letgo and FB marketplace. Letgo is the least fruitful in this area. I did check with the custom shop and they have several tank sizes always available and one caught my eye, a 65 gallon 48 X 18 X 18 for $180. It's basically a shaved down 75 gallon. I also called and checked on having a custom sized 65 gallon made, it more than doubled the price.


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## Aquafrank (Jul 21, 2018)

I wasn't paying attention when told because I'm not in the market for a tank, but one of the "box" pet stores - PetCo, Petsmart, Pet Warehouse, Pets Plus had a fish tank sale in July - $1.00 per gallon. I doubt that price point went up much over 30 gallons, but it could serve as a data point for deciding how much to pay for a bare second-hand tank in good condition.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

HazMatt said:


> I've been checking Craigslist, letgo and FB marketplace. Letgo is the least fruitful in this area. I did check with the custom shop and they have several tank sizes always available and one caught my eye, a 65 gallon 48 X 18 X 18 for $180. It's basically a shaved down 75 gallon. I also called and checked on having a custom sized 65 gallon made, it more than doubled the price.




I’m sure it would be cheaper to get the 5 pieces cut at a glass shop and then assemble it yourself. You’re paying a premium for them to literally glue it together. I suppose that’s a more difficult task for some versus others, though. Not sure how handy you are.


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## couger (Jun 4, 2018)

*Rainbows*



jaysee said:


> 4 foot tank is ideal, for sure. 75/90 is a good footprint.
> 
> My favorite schooling fish for the top half of the tank are rainbows. In my opinion they are the complete package - attractive, active and inquisitive.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



My Turquoise and Madagascar rainbows stay bottom to mid tank in my 55 show.


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## couger (Jun 4, 2018)

I guess my arms are short but I am so tired of getting my shoulder wet to get something off the bottom of 20" tanks. The only time the fish use the top 5" is when they come up for food.


I have one 12" tall 23/23/12 and love it. I have 1" of gravel over 1/2 the bottom and swords and hornwort attached to a coco mat on the other half. A HoB and a canister give most of the bacteria a place to live. I pull the mat out and rinse it once a month. Very true that this will only work for smaller fish because of the 23".


My place will not take the weight but I picked up a 72/24/14 used sump for $65. Bought Weld on #40 (for cross linked acrylics) and some cheap acrylic sheet (cross linked) from Lowes to seal the in/out holes. Volia, 110 gallon tank for under $100. I am using it as an indoor garden.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

couger said:


> My Turquoise and Madagascar rainbows stay bottom to mid tank in my 55 show.




I’ve kept Close to 10 species of rainbows and they’ve all stayed in the top half, particularly the ones in question in the thread. But fish are not robots so they don’t always do what’s expected of them. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have expectations though.

Madagascar is one I haven’t kept, but from my observations in others tanks they do seem to stay lower than others. Perhaps that’s pulling your turquoise down in the tank, since rainbows have such a high schooling drive.

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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I found a good deal on a 75 gallon, complete setup that is still up and running. A friend is going to help me pack everything up tomorrow, fish and all. My friend will take all of the fish as none of them interest me and he has several aquariums up and running with fish that should match up well. 

After doing a bit more research, it looks like the snakeskin barbs are not a good match for my water parameters. Now, I'm thinking about getting kamaka rainbows. My friend and I went to the best LFS in the area, an hour away, and I was really impressed with those rainbows.


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## Aquafrank (Jul 21, 2018)

Nice! How did you hear about the tank? What other equipment did you get - stand - filter, air pump? Are you going to re-use the substrate or other equipment? Are you going to have a planted tank?


Congrats, and good luck!


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I found the tank on Facebook marketplace. We moved it today. It had 2 angels, a Bala shark, black ghost knife, pictus cat, emerald Cory, and 2 plecos. My friend already has all the fish in their new homes. 

It came with a nice black wood stand, 2 HOTB whisper 60s and about 2 years worth of replacement filters, a marineland 36-48 inch led light, about 50 pounds of blue gravel, 2 top fin 4000 air pumps, three 12 inch air blocks and enough decorations for 2 tanks. I also gave all the decorations to my friend. 

I'll likely get a sunsun 304b canister, recommend by my friend. I plan to have 2 nice pieces of driftwood, with several anubius tied to them, one on each side of the tank, a driftwood bonsai tree in the center with moss filling in the branches, a couple stacks of rock (with more anubius stuck to them) to make plenty of caves, some tall plants along the back and probably black sand. I'll have to get rid of the blue gravel. For the first time in this hobby, I don't plan on using any artificial decorations.

I'm thinking about getting 8-10 of those kamaka rainbows, 6-8 kubotia loaches and eventually otos for algae control. I plan on filling the tank and decorating it within the next week or two however, I won't be getting any fish until the end of September. I have a 2 week trip planned and I don't want to leave new fish alone that long. Oh, and I heard those rainbows like duckweed so, I'll probably have some of that as well.


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## Aquafrank (Jul 21, 2018)

Careful with the duckweed...under the right conditions it'll propagate like mad and may be hard to get rid of without a fair amount of work. Sounds like you got a good deal, and humanely distributed the fish. Kudos! I'm wary of up-and-running tank purchases; lots of extra effort...but for the right price...


Not to put too fine a point on it - Sunsun canisters don't have the best reputation. I would characterize them as "serviceable." My canisters aren't much better. I have two Aquatops - an AF250 (weak) and a Forza 13, which I like a lot. Hint: Spend $3.00 and get a tube of silicone lube from Home Depot. Put it on *all* your rubber gaskets and the Sunsun will likely remain leak free for many years.


Your plans for the tank sound terrific. I love a well-planted tank. I also eschew artificial decorations. I go for natural stuff, as you've outlined, above. I'm sure it'll give you great pleasure when all is said and done. It *IS* a lot of work at the beginning, but that is when your enthusiasm will be at it's height, so it all works out!


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I have like 5 sunsuns of varying sizes (same product as aquatop and others) and I’ve not had any problems with the functionality. Never had a problem with any of them leaking. I clean my filters once a year. The baskets take a little skill to get out - that’s my only complaint. The plastic pieces for the intake and spray bar are thin and easily broken. They’re also easily and cheaply replaced by pvc - simple DIY task.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I'm going to need a heater. I'm in a basement apartment and it stays quite cool so, I'm thinking of going with an oversized heater. What heaters would you recommend for, lets say, a 125 gallon aquarium?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I would go with 2-3 smaller ones rather than one big one. How much total wattage you need depends on the difference between the ambient air temp and the desired water temp.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I'll probably use the HOTB filters for a while. I have experience with them from my previous times fish keeping. I'll probably also add a couple air powered sponge filters. Since I have a couple air pumps, I might as well use one.

After work today, I plan on checking out the local stores for black sand, plants, rocks and whatnot. When I get home, I'm going to make sure the tank is level. My friend and I found a person that sells driftwood for a good price. We are hoping to go check out his stock next weekend. Hopefully, it's good quality driftwood. I like tannins in the water but, I hate driftwood that constantly adds debris to the water.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I meant 2-3 heaters 

Doesn’t sound like you’re going huge on stocking so you’ll be able to manage just fine with those filters. Easy enough to convert one at a time, should you choose that,

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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

Yeah, probably two 300 watt heaters. But, I was thinking of thinking about holding off on buying a canister for a while.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

Would it be safe to use black sandblasting sand as substrate?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I have heard that sandblasting sand is very coarse (makes sense for its purpose) and not a good choice for substrate.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I'm worried about that myself. It never hurts to go look at it though. There are a couple places in town that sell it. On place is supposed to have lots of different kinds of sand.


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## HazMatt (Aug 14, 2018)

I visited the local petco, petsmart and local mom and pop LFS and bought all the black aquarium sand in my county, 50lbs. Not exactly enough but, the LFS also had 25lbs of dark blue sand. So, I also bought all the dark blue sand in the county. 

The LFS is also running a sale on driftwood. They're all fairly simple pieces but even the 14-18 inch pieces of manzanita in their display tanks are included. Some of these pieces have been in the tanks for many years and are covered in algae. I might buy several pieces and make a tangle of driftwood in my tank.


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