# Need help new to the aquarium hobby!



## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

I'm glad, I'm part of a forum now. I need some education on what my fish may be suffering from. I have had my 45 gallon tank established for about a month now. It is a freshwater tank with an undergravel filter. I preform water changes twice a week mondays and thursdays. I have had fish in it previously which consisted of 2x figure eight puffers, 2x black mollies, 2x gold mollies, 10 tiger barbs, 10 neon tetras, and 2x plecostomus. I noticed that my puffers along with my tiger barbs started killing off my tetras and mollies. I believed this happened due to overpopulating. I also noticed that I overfed them and the remains stay on the bottom and formed a fungus. New to the aquarium hobby I didn't think this would effect the fish with normal water changes. I woke up on day to notice that my puffers started to get deposits on the outside of it. Eventually it got worse and their tails started to look torn. I thought it might of been ick so I raised the temp and treated with meds. Then I noticed that it started to form into almost a fuzz on the outside of them. I kelp the treatment up for about a week. I eventually lost both puffers and everything but 1x black mollie, 1x plecostomus, and 1x guppie. I placed them in a holding tank for a week to clean and reestablish my tank. Reading and learning what I did wrong and try to prevent it this time. I have had it setup for a month now. I have currently added a blue gourami, 2x dwarf gourami's, 2x sunset platys, and 3x red wag tail platys along with my 1x plecostomus, 1x black mollie, and 1x guppie. All was fine for the first day or so, then I started to notice my dwarf gourami's kinda stayed to the bottom only to move when fed. Then one day my blue gourami started swimming frantic about the aquarium. On top of all that I just noticed only my gourami's have what looks like ick on their bodies. I'm at a loss for words I need help to save my stock and maintain a health aquarium.


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Do you have a water testing kit? We need to know your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph levels.
It does sound like your last fish died as a result of disease. Disease can be brought on by poor water conditions.
Here is a good thread on ick. http://www.fishforum.com/tropical-fish-diseases/information-about-ich-also-known-white-1255/

Get your water tested at the store, or better yet, buy an API freshwater testing kit. To cure ick, you are going to need extra clean water.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

My dwarf gourami's are lying around now and staying on their side what does this usually mean. I hope they are not going to die.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't have a a test kit yet. Now one of my red wag tail platys is lying around OMG what do I do? I just preformed a 10% water change.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Are you able to take a water sample to your local fish store or run out and get the API master test kit for freshwater? 

I would do this immediately so you know where to start. Crossing my fingers for you.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

OK Romad will do. I also got another question do you use slt in a freshwater tank and if so would regular table salt do?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

No on the salt. You have enough problems without adding more stress to the fish. I've explained elsewhere what the internal effects of salt on freshwater fish can be. But you have more important issues to solve now.

We need to know your water parameters as previous responders have asked. Without this, we are guessing. However, there are a couple of things that stand out on which I will comment.

The first "community" of fish was anything but; there were fish in that grouping that must never be kept in the same aquarium. You experienced firsthand why--the aggression of puffers and tiger barbs killed the others. It was not directly due to overpopulating, it was simply the nature of puffers and tiger barbs. It is true that in a much larger aquarium these fish can sometimes be less aggressive than in smaller quarters, but as it is their basic instinct to nip fins or attack any smaller fish, whichever, one must chose their tankmates carefully with this in mind.

Diagnosing disease/problems is not easy and sometimes extremely difficult. One should be quite certain of the disease before adding medications to an aquarium; some fish are highly sensitive to some or all chemicals, and while they may withstand it they often become weakened by stress and then are susceptible to even more issues. The appearance of the puffers you describe was not in my view ich but the result of the tiger barbs nipping their tails and fins. The white growths were probably fungus on the injured broken sites.

The fish you now have are better as a community, although you might see aggression amongst the gouramis. But it won't, yet, be to the extent of that from the barbs and puffers. However, the gouramis appear to be dying so this will not be an issue, but worth remembering to avoid in the future. The demise of the gouramis I would almost bet is due to ammonia and/or nitrite poisioning. New tanks must be cycled, that is, the bacteria must be established to handle the ammonia produced by the fish and subsequent nitrite. It takes anywhere from 2 to 8 weeks in a tank with no plants and no live bacteria added. At this moment, the best thing you can do is a partial water change each day, using a good water conditioner (one that also detoxifies ammonia would be best). Do not vacuum the gravel, and do not clean or change the filter until the tank is definitely cycled. I would also get a bottle of biological supplement such as Seachem's "Stability" or Nutrafin's "Cycle' when you go to the store. It will help in establishing the needed colony of bacteria and ease the stress on the fish that are left, and it might save them.

Ich occurs when fish are stressed beyond their capability to fight off the parasite. Before you jump into more trouble by adding other chemicals, let's get the water sorted out.

When we know your water parameters, namely ammonia, nitrite and pH, either with your own test kit or from the store, we can offer further suggestions. If you do go to the store, make sure they give you the numbers; something like "it's high" or "it's fine" is not good enough since that tells us nothing. We need to know the stage in the cycling at which your tank is now at, and then we can help.

Byron.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

From your description it sounds not like ick but a fungus of sorts. You should post pictures along with your water parameters also.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

Byron you sound like an expert on this hobby. I appreciate the help eveyone. I will get my water tested as soon as possible. Once again thanks everyone. I also should mention all my fish seem to be faling now to the bottom and dying. Should I start fresh with my tank again and let it cycle properly. Then add some fish?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

GOURAMIKEEPER83 said:


> Byron you sound like an expert on this hobby. I appreciate the help eveyone. I will get my water tested as soon as possible. Once again thanks everyone. I also should mention all my fish seem to be faling now to the bottom and dying. Should I start fresh with my tank again and let it cycle properly. Then add some fish?


We still don't know your water parameters, but again I am fairly certain this is the effect of ammonia and nitrite poisoning because the tank was not cycled properly. I suggested you add some biological supplement, but there is nothing else I know of that will save the fish if the problem is the ammonia or nitrite. A partial water change of 50-60% each day would help, using conditioned water obviously (a good water conditioner that removes ammonia as well as the other stuff) being careful not to disturb the gravel or the filter media.

As long as one or more of the existing fish are still alive, I would not add any more until the tank is cycled and the fish is/are OK. If you lose all of them, then yes you need to start over. But I still think we should know your water parameters, otherwise we are just playing guessing games with the fish.

Byron.

P.S. You will find a number of "experts" on this forum, aquarists who have travelled this road before and are more than willing to offer advice from their own experiences. I am certainly no more expert than they are. B.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

I have realized why my fish are dying off . It is because of my amonia spiking due to the cycle process. I am new to this and when I went to buy the fish my ph and all that was fine because the cycling had not started yet. No one never mentioned anything about cycling to me now after I have lost over 100 dollars in fish. I find out that its all supose to happen but with only like three fish at first. I went and got my tank full of the fish I wanted just to have them die. Man this fish hobby is discouraging at times. I need to stay in some kind of loop because my local pet store is not giving me the information neede to be successful. I'm hoping that by joining this forum all will change and maybe just maybe I will be a better hobbiest.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

It is a sad reflection on some fish stores that this is a very common occurrence. Please don't despair. Success is within your reach. 

Before you go further, plan what you want in the end, and post your questions and ideas as they arise, many on here will have suggestions and advice to prevent any recurrence. To think how many fish I lost in my first days (decades ago now) when I did the same, and there were no such forums (not the internet or computers...that's dated me) to help.

Best of luck, and stay with it. We're here.

Byron.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

Byron I appreciate your help thus far. I am starting with my best foot foward this time. Would you do your cycle with fish or without. I personally don't want anymore fish to suffer. However instead of starting completely over I'm starting to see some bacterial growth on my gravel. Since the fish is gone My tank is in the week where the amonia is spiking. This being my third week. I figured that maybe I could continue with the fish food to help the amonia along. I have ordered a test kit should be arriving this week. I think that maybe if I can get it cycled completely the next batch of fish will prosper. What do you think I should do start over or let the cycle complete.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Tanks can be cycled with fish food; you add what you would each day if the tank had fish in it, and allow it to decompose to provide food (ammonia) for the bacteria.

Are all the fish gone now? If any are left, which are they?

Byron.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

my pleco is still alive but the rest died within 3 days 10 fish. WOW!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

GOURAMIKEEPER83 said:


> my pleco is still alive but the rest died within 3 days 10 fish. WOW!


I am sorry about your loss of fish. Let's prevent it from now on. Leave the pleco and add fish food, monitor the ammonia and nitrite--do y9ou have a test kit yet? This is important. Also, you can get a small bottle of Seachem's "Stability" to seed the tank with more bacteria. We go from there.

Byron.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok seachem stability I will get it today later sometime. I seen a post on a new chemical that cycles your tank within 24 hours is it worth the hype or what?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

GOURAMIKEEPER83 said:


> Ok seachem stability I will get it today later sometime. I seen a post on a new chemical that cycles your tank within 24 hours is it worth the hype or what?


Probably not. If this was Herky's thread from yesterday you're thnking of, forget it. No one knows what's in that stuff, and adding unknown chemicals to a tank with fish is risky.

Stability is live bacteria, I've used it myself and I know it works.

Byron.


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## Rohland (Aug 20, 2009)

Byron said:


> Probably not. If this was Herky's thread from yesterday you're thnking of, forget it. No one knows what's in that stuff, and adding unknown chemicals to a tank with fish is risky.
> 
> Stability is live bacteria, I've used it myself and I know it works.
> 
> Byron.


Used it on the advice of Byron, works like a charm ;-)


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

I took your advice and got stability and started it today.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

GOURAMIKEEPER83 said:


> I took your advice and got stability and started it today.


As it is just bacteria you can't overdose, so using twice the recommended dosage is fine. Also, you may not need to do it the full week, as you've only the one fish. Only reason for mentioning this is to save money; if you don't mind using it a week, it will certainly do no harm.

Byron.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't mind at all you are the teacher and i'm the student. I'm just sitting back listening, reading, and learning.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

I would like your input on what to stock my tank with next. I also want to keep my main fish of the tank a gourami of some sort. I also want other colorful fish to make it stand out i'm not a critic so any opinion is accepted. I would also like find some live floating plants to put in it you got any idea as to where I can get some. I am on a budget of about $10 every two weeks on fish so keep that in mind. I feel bad cause I keep asking for help. You have been a big help so far. Is keeping live plants in an aquarium hard?


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## fighttest (Jun 25, 2009)

I recently got some pearl gourami that are really cool. I think they grow to about 4 inches or so and are very active. Iv got 3 in my 50 gallon tank 2 female 1 male and are pretty easy to sex just look for red under the mouth and an elongated dorsal fin in the male. They are really pretty, grayish blue with silvery white spots and a black line running horizontally along the body. From what I’v read they are relatively hardy fish and so far they have been easy to take care of... it looks like after just 2 days the male is trying to build a bubble nest. I got them for around 3 or 4 dollars each. its probably best to ask byron first before you go out and get them.


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## GOURAMIKEEPER83 (Sep 9, 2009)

I appreciate the information fightest. Any other suggestions on what to put with the gourami's?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

GOURAMIKEEPER83 said:


> I would like your input on what to stock my tank with next. I also want to keep my main fish of the tank a gourami of some sort. I also want other colorful fish to make it stand out i'm not a critic so any opinion is accepted. I would also like find some live floating plants to put in it you got any idea as to where I can get some. I am on a budget of about $10 every two weeks on fish so keep that in mind. I feel bad cause I keep asking for help. You have been a big help so far. Is keeping live plants in an aquarium hard?


Plants are not difficult, I find them easier than fish; plus they do the best job of water filtration so the fish are naturally healthier and the water will be more stable. Not to mention, the tank looks nicer with green plants. Here's a link to my recent post that explained much of what's needed. If questions arise from readng that, ask away.
http://www.fishforum.com/aquarium-plants/help-co2-lighting-nutrition-28665/

Byron.


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