# Does this look like a good deal?



## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Sorry, but I've never purchased a used tank before and never had a tank this big. What does everyone think about this one?

40 GALLON TANK
LIGHT FIXTURE WITH FLUORESCENT LIGHT
40 GALLON METAL STAND
SOME DECORATIONS

FIRST $65.00 TAKES IT
CALL OR TEXT xxx xxx xxxx


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## ThePlatypusKing (Sep 12, 2011)

a new 40 gallon ussually cost (where I live) 65-80 dollars without a stand or light fixture. Seems like a huge steal to me.


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## Strand (Jul 20, 2011)

Not really a "steal"

I browse craig's list often and see 55's go for that all the time will all the equipment. 

I would keep shopping. It doesn't have a filter or anything else.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

Not to bad with the stand but if you wait it out you can find better deals.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

I wasnt sure it was the best I could get either. But what about this one?


55 Gallon Aquarium with stand with pump & filter system- $150

About 200 pounds of live rock- make offer


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## Strand (Jul 20, 2011)

If you are wanting to do SW then the live rock is worth that much. 

Wondering if it comes with a skimmer, heater, etc.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Idk if it comes with a skimmer but the same poster has other tanks with skimmers so maybe I can buy one of those? Not sure. And Idk the price on the live rock, but if I did get this tank, I would likely be getting at least some rock from this person. So no skimmer and as far as I can see, no lights, but has filter and stand.


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## Strand (Jul 20, 2011)

So you are doing SW?


Keep checking for lights. Those things are $$$


If you have the patients you can piece together a nice set up.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Yes, doing SW and I'm in no rush, I want to do it right, but I also am on a tight budget.


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## Strand (Jul 20, 2011)

Sounds like piecing it together is a good option for you.


But SW aquarium and budget are 2 words that do not go together.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

I know lol, but I am in no rush. Might take me 6 months to afford everything BEFORE the fish but I'm okay with that. So I can find pieces easily that will fit the size aquarium I choose? Like lights and skimmers and such?


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## Strand (Jul 20, 2011)

55 is probably the most common size tank ever built. So definitely.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Ok awesome thanks  I'm not set on 55g, anywhere between 30 and 55 is fine with me


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Quick question.. If I end up finding a tank that comes with a filter, but it was previously used for fresh water, would the filter be okay to use for salt? Or would I have to get a different filter? Sorry if this is a stupid question


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## Strand (Jul 20, 2011)

Just swap out the media.


I'd try to find a canister filter for SW.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

a stupid question is the one not asked.

i would personally avoid 55 gallon tanks for a saltwater display. yes, people have 55 gallon saltwater tanks, but they are narrow and tough to get a nice rock scape. 
not only does it cost an arm, leg and maybe your other leg to purchase all the saltwater equipment, it is going to cost a chunk of change to keep it running. a bucket of salt, RO/DI water ( which i suggest making at home ) alk, cal and mag to dose, fresh quality foods, ELECTRIC BILLS, and so forth. ive heard its best to create the ultimate freshwater tank if money is an issue some corners were just not ment to be cut.. just something to consider. 
some good advice might be to search your area for a local reefing club. bet you can find all sorts of used equipment and setups for sale there, just research what your planning on buying before you buy. google it, read reviews ( esp. with skimmers ) and so on... a smart shopper is a good shopper. 

freshwater filters are best left for freshwater tanks. this goes for, but is not limited to, bio balls, bio wheels, hang on filters, canister filters, sponge filters.. even filter socks if they arnt cleaned very frequent, and anything else that can collect, and build up junk that is allowed a chance to break down into excess nutrients. 
hang on filters and canister filters can work if ran empty or only with carbon, but i choose a carbon reactor for that.
best saltwater filtration IMO is, a sump with a quality skimmer, enough liverock in the display, good flow, careful feedings, a bi-weekly water change.. and you shouldnt have issues. this ofcourse is what has worked for me.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks again for all the advice. I know I will have to put some money into this and that's okay, I'm just not going to go buy a brand new setup for $4000 lol. And thank you also for the advice about the 55 gallon.. Do you think a 40 gallon would be better? I'm not sure if I can accomodate a 75 gallon, I'm working with a wall space of 4 feet long.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

MiamiLeos said:


> Thanks again for all the advice. I know I will have to put some money into this and that's okay, I'm just not going to go buy a brand new setup for $4000 lol. And thank you also for the advice about the 55 gallon.. Do you think a 40 gallon would be better? I'm not sure if I can accomodate a 75 gallon, I'm working with a wall space of 4 feet long.


a standard 75 is just as long as a standard 55 but wider. the width is what you want so you can actually create a nice rock scape and not the berlin wall effect. 
having said that, id suggest a 40 breeder OR 75 gallon over a 55 gallon any day of the year. if these are not available, cube tanks make a great setup as they are just as wide as they are long. 

and since we're talking tanks a 90 gallon is the size of the 75 but it is TALLER, it may sound better to have the extra gallons but the deeper the tank the less light penetration.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

WOW! I had no idea all these tanks are the same length. Hmm.. decisions. I don't think I'd want a 90 because like you said, lighting would be an issue and I would like to eventually have some corals. So.. for a person who's only had freshwater aquariums before, would you recommend the 40 breeder or the 75? I know more water volume is better for stability reasons, but is a larger tank much harder to care for? Would I need a sump for a 75? Reason I'm asking is because this will be in my bedroom and I can enjoy the usual filter and pump water noises but a sump i thimk would be so loud. I was thinking of modifying a hanging filter into a refugium with chaeto..


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

larger tanks are actually easier, minus alittle larger water change but add in the extra cost of everything lol. more rock, more sand, bigger skimmer, more more more.

on a serious note, if this were my first saltwater tank and i was to pick a tank, i would go with the 40 breeder OR 75 gallon non-reef ready. 

why non-reef ready? well i dont like the HUGE size of the overflows a reef ready tank comes with and some of them even have 2 of these huge overflows taking up valuable tank space. personally going with glassholes overflows for the rest of my life.

a quiet sump is very do-able. if you go with a small return pump and carefully select a skimmer you wouldnt hear much under the stand with its doors closed. my last tank was in my bedroom... a 5 foot long 90 and it wasnt the tank you heard, it was the external skimmer sitting next to it sucking air...


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Please forgive me, but what does non reef ready actually mean? I feel like I'm missing something.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

MiamiLeos said:


> Please forgive me, but what does non reef ready actually mean? I feel like I'm missing something.


 Reef ready tanks already have holes drilled in them for overflow. Non reef ready tanks do not.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

OH yes yes I know what you're talking about. Thank you! Petco is having a $1/gallon sale on plain tanks. so $40 for a 40 gallon or $75 for a 75 so I could get a tank there. Still not sure if I want the 40 or 75 though. In a 75 I would obviously have a few more fish. Would that increase the chances of fish aggression, even if it is properly stocked, just because there are more fish in contact with eachother?


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

MiamiLeos said:


> OH yes yes I know what you're talking about. Thank you! Petco is having a $1/gallon sale on plain tanks. so $40 for a 40 gallon or $75 for a 75 so I could get a tank there. Still not sure if I want the 40 or 75 though. In a 75 I would obviously have a few more fish. Would that increase the chances of fish aggression, even if it is properly stocked, just because there are more fish in contact with eachother?


 Fish will be fish, you just never know. If properly stocked you should not have any issues. You might have one or 2 scuffles, but that happens.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

MiamiLeos said:


> OH yes yes I know what you're talking about. Thank you! Petco is having a $1/gallon sale on plain tanks. so $40 for a 40 gallon or $75 for a 75 so I could get a tank there. Still not sure if I want the 40 or 75 though. In a 75 I would obviously have a few more fish. Would that increase the chances of fish aggression, even if it is properly stocked, just because there are more fish in contact with eachother?


i wouldnt say you'd have much aggresion if it is properly stocked. in pretty much all tanks fish will develop a pecking order.

hate to break news but i believe their sale is only up to 55 gallon size, but that does include the 40.
a 75 would allow a tang, i know those are a big attraction :roll: lol 
its also going to come down to what fish gets added when as you cant add the fish meant to be added last, first. they are going to harass any new tank additions. this is why creating a list of everything you could ever want in the tank from the beggining. this does not mean it will all be added then, but you'll have a guideline of whats going in and hopefully have them all researched. this is the best method IMO and sure beats going to the fish store and saying thats a pretty fish, buying it, bringing it home and then having the lionfish you bought yesterday eat it. ( just an example )


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Ah darn! Your right! Checked the website and it says up to 55  I know tangs are pretty, but after doing some research on them, I don't think I'm ready for one yet. From the ones I would like, they are some what aggressive and more sensitive than I am comfortable with. When I decide on what size tank I would like my stocking list will be more complete. I have a short scribble of a few fish I would like for a 40. I used the 1 fish from group A and 1 species from group B/ 15gals and LiveAquaria's website to pick fish. Feel free to criticize!

Flame Hawkfish
Bicolor Angelfish
pair of O. Clownfish
Yellow Watchman Goby
Royal Gramma Basslet
Electric Blue Hermit Crab
Lettuce Sea Slug
Red or Marbled Sea Star

A very tentative stocking list


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

the angel will nip future corals. a flame or coral beauty would be a safer choice but their eating habbits are not promised. they can also turn coral hungry randomly. just a consideration.

i personally do not like any crabs in my tanks, just because they eat what they get their claws on ( if i find one, into the refugium of my sump it goes ) 
the no crab policy also goes for hermit crabs. i like snails, a nice mixture of snails. hermits seem to love ripping snails from their shells just to find out they dont even want that shell. its not as drastic as it sounds, but it does happen. snails can be $1-2 each and i just cant have that happening.

i like the look of lettuce sea slugs myself, but they wont look the same when they crawl into a powerhead. food supply can also become an issue esp. with some of the larger species.

i am impressed and you are on a solid track.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Thank you! Yea, I'm still tentative about the angel. From what I understand, they all can be destructive to coral. What I think I would do is see if my LFS has a return/exchange policy so that I could take the fish home, quarentine it, and then place it in my tank for a week or two and if it does bother the corals, maybe exchange it for a fish of equal value. Probably a long shot lol but it's worth asking. And yea I thought the same thing about crabs too, but on LiveAquaria is stated that this is one of the only coral/reef friendly crabs. I wouldnt like it snagging my snails though.. Do you think if I purchased a few extra shells and placed them around the tank it would choose those over stealing them? I'm not a big crab fan in general, but this little guy is so pretty! And it's rated as a beginner invert - deff what I need


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

i believe its the scarlet hermits that are the best cleaners if memory serves me right. even with extra shells around the tank they will take your snails shell, and a snail without a shell is a dead snail. id assume they eat them out? regardless, it happens, again not as dramatic as it sounds, but it happens.

you cant always trust what you read. live aquaria is a good "guideline" but i suggest taking that research farther. compare it to sites like wikipedia AND other sites and see what they say, and/or what other reefers are saying. Google is such an overlooked powerful tool that is taken for granted. with your collection of information, then use your best judgement.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

I will have to look into scarlets! Thanks for the tip. And yes I completely agree. I have loads more research to do. Who knows, this could be my difinitive list (probably not) or I could end up with none of these fish haha. I'm the kind of person who likes to make a rough draft and then revise, revise, revise! So I'm sure this stocking list will go through a few changes before I even begin imagining purchasing fish.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Aw man, so I'm doing a virtual buy of everything I will need for a 75g including what the fish and inverts will need food wise... I'm already over $350!!!! Without the tank, stand, lights, or fish!!! Geez! lol so then I remembered this add I saw a little while ago... uh oh, it's 90 gallons.. technecally I have room for it but it seems so big! What does everyone think? Basically I would just have to buy fish, although I was looking foreward to watching my new tank cycle, I suppose there will be a small cycle here.. anyways, the add, everything but fish is included..

fish tank comes with 50 pounds live rock , live sand , protein skimmer, wetdry filter , stand , light timer .... asking $300 rehoming fee ....


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Thinking about it.. This just seems like too much for me. I mean I originally started out wanting something 30 or 40 gallons.. this is triple that. I think I'm going down to 40 gallons.. It's probably easier to upgrade later than downgrade.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

that filter is for a large size freshwater tank, not for long term saltwater success. so, if you did buy it, i would DIY a 20 long as a sump instead personally. 

40 gallons is a nice size to start with, i think i would still do a 20 long for a sump. the 40 im working on now has a 40 sump.. i didnt need to go this big, but i already had it built so i used it. that extra water volume is going to help me greatly anyways.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

MiamiLeos said:


> Thank you! Yea, I'm still tentative about the angel. From what I understand, they all can be destructive to coral. What I think I would do is see if my LFS has a return/exchange policy so that I could take the fish home, quarentine it, and then place it in my tank for a week or two and if it does bother the corals, maybe exchange it for a fish of equal value. Probably a long shot lol but it's worth asking. And yea I thought the same thing about crabs too, but on LiveAquaria is stated that this is one of the only coral/reef friendly crabs. I wouldnt like it snagging my snails though.. Do you think if I purchased a few extra shells and placed them around the tank it would choose those over stealing them? I'm not a big crab fan in general, but this little guy is so pretty! And it's rated as a beginner invert - deff what I need


 I have never had issues with these guys grabbing my turbo snails shells. Might be that they are to big for them. Then again I have a bunch of other shells scattered about for their new houses.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

OF2F - I think 40 is a good size for me. I'm comfortable with that and pretty confident that I can keep it healthy. I do have a 20g tank sitting around that I could use for a sump/refugium, but how could I make it quiet? I thought sumps had like 2 or 3 water falls in them?

Reefing - Good to hear you've never had problems. I would most likely only have one and I would give it extra shells as well. I suppose if it ended up being a hard core snail bandit I would have to either trade it in for another one or not have snails.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

MiamiLeos said:


> OF2F - I think 40 is a good size for me. I'm comfortable with that and pretty confident that I can keep it healthy. I do have a 20g tank sitting around that I could use for a sump/refugium, but how could I make it quiet? I thought sumps had like 2 or 3 water falls in them?
> 
> Reefing - Good to hear you've never had problems. I would most likely only have one and I would give it extra shells as well. I suppose if it ended up being a hard core snail bandit I would have to either trade it in for another one or not have snails.


there will prob. always be some type of noise standing next to a tank, unless its built into a wall and the fish room is remote. pumps slight hum or alittle gurgle from an overflow...

building doors for your stand to enclose the sump would be a good start. the height of all 3 chambers can be close, lowering the distance the water "drops" down to the next tier. if the return pump is in the middle, the drain is split to run to either side of the sump, one to the skimmer side, one to the refugium side and these can have equal water levels. the return pump section could be 75%-80% full (depending where you wanted it) leaving the water to only travel a few inches into this section. ofcourse as your water evaporates ( as it does daily and needs to be topped off with RO/DI water, NOT salt water as salt wont evaporate ) this may draw alittle more noise but shouldnt be un-bareable. the evap. water should be replaced daily anyways. you can also run the water slower through your sump. smaller overflow and/or a smaller return pump ( never larger then your drain can handle, this = flood ) will give you a slower paced sump which would run quieter. 

reefing - i agree never turbos but astreas, ceriths and the rest are all fair game. im not a huge fan of turbos personally anyways because they are so clumsy with frags.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks again! I expect some noise, of course. I just want to be able to sleep in the same room haha! I think I understand what you're saying about the overflow in the sump.. but I'm still a bit foggy on sumps in general. I've read the stickies and a bunch online, I guess I just don't understand the mechanics exactly, like the return pump, how does the water actually get into the sump lol, and where the components of a filter would go. I wish I could see one in person.

On a different note.. when I get to the point where Im ready to put live/dry rock in, do I just stack them and trust that they dont fall or do I silicone them together or something? How would I attach frags too, silicone?


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

MiamiLeos said:


> Thanks again! I expect some noise, of course. I just want to be able to sleep in the same room haha! I think I understand what you're saying about the overflow in the sump.. but I'm still a bit foggy on sumps in general. I've read the stickies and a bunch online, I guess I just don't understand the mechanics exactly, like the return pump, how does the water actually get into the sump lol, and where the components of a filter would go. I wish I could see one in person.
> 
> On a different note.. when I get to the point where Im ready to put live/dry rock in, do I just stack them and trust that they dont fall or do I silicone them together or something? How would I attach frags too, silicone?



ofcourse there are many designs but i like setting my sumps up as follows, 

| drain in, skimmer | bubble trap | return pump, heater | divider wall | refugium, drain in |

this type of sump is displayed on my tank thread. the water will get down to the sump from an overflow box, hang on overflow, or reef-ready tank ( which comes with an overflow )
i am not a fan of reef ready tanks only because i feel their overflows are oversized and take up a section of the tank top to bottom, some reef ready tanks have 2 of these overflows.
i have found glass-holes overflows to be a fraction of the size while not lacking in performance. ive gone the hang on overflow route and have caused a flood due to an aqualifter clogging. this shouldnt ever happen with a drilled tank as they dont use aqualifters to restart like a hang on overflow if ever a poweroutage occurs.
looking at others setups should hopefully greatly help. youtubing sumps wouldnt hurt either.

you can attach rock with zip ties, drilling it and using plastic hangers ( although china plastic may release un-wanted chemicles ) they do sell acrylic rods but they are expensive. theres also aquarium putty but i wouldnt use silicon to attach rock to rock. on my new tank ive used pond foam to create my rockwall, this is my first experience with this and im so far happy with it. ive done tanks before with careful stacking but you wouldnt want a big rock tumble to occur. super glue for frags to frag plugs, rock rubble or empty shells, then place into your tank or onto a frag rack. aquarium putty might be good here for the underside of the rock rubble frag plug to prevent it from being knocked over ( in my experience usually from large turbo snails ) but its also good to be able to move frags around atleast at first incase its not happy where it was placed.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

and the idea with rock work is to create archways, pillars, caves and so on instead of a solid rock wall. ofcourse if its the rockwall that you enjoy looking at by all means its your tank, but thats just how i would aquascape.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Oh man... I was going to use a hang on overflow.. but a flood is the worst possible thing that could happen. shoot. So I have to drill a hole in the glass?? Oh goodness... 

And yes I deff want as many caves, crevaces, and hiding spots as I can so my fish will feel more secure. I read that each fish should have it's own individual hiding space that it can call home.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

the safest way IMO is to have a tank drilled to prevent flood. 

its actually easier then it sounds, you let the weight of the drill do the work.. its just time consuming. if you went this route and didnt want to do it yourself your other options would be to have someone who knows what they are doing do it, or a reef-ready tank.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Hmm.. thinking. I want to do the safest way possible. Would I just drill directly into the glass with a regular drill bit? and like how big of a hole would I have to drill?


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

its a glass drill bit and its going to depend on what type of overflow you have / are doing.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Should You Drill The Aquarium Or Use An Aquarium Overflow Box | Aquarists Online | Aquarium Fish Resources And Information
How to Drill a Glass Aquarium | eHow.com


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks Reefing! I was actually on that website yesterday looking at their awesome overflow kits!


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

MiamiLeos said:


> Thanks Reefing! I was actually on that website yesterday looking at their awesome overflow kits!


 :thumbsup: Right on. Good luck to ya. Let us know how it comes out.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

I'll deff keep you guys updated and I'm sure I'll have many more questions lol


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Ok, last one I swear. This one seems to have everything. Only thing I would change is I would put a drilled in overflow. It's going for $325. Sooooo. Opinions? lol sorry for being such a pain in the rear 

75 gallon saltwater tank with 40lbs live rock, Current USA T5 ballast with built in timer and night lights, Coralia pump for flow, a protein skimmer rated for 150 gallons, 36 watt UV sterilizer, in-tank refugium stocked with chetomorph and a 10 gallon wet dry.
The system is fool proof.
This is an overflow U-tube system, not pre-drilled.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Dangit! Sorry for double posting the pics >.<


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm sorry, so whats the question? To drill for an overflow or use the HOB??


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Question is, is that set up with a good deal for it's price? I would also probably take out the wet/dry part and turn it into the more standard refugium/filter.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

MiamiLeos said:


> Question is, is that set up with a good deal for it's price? I would also probably take out the wet/dry part and turn it into the more standard refugium/filter.


Not for $300 it isn't. Not from where I am sitting. You look at Ebay or Craigslist?


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

Yea this is from Craigslist. Wow I thought it was a really good deal, glad I asked. So what should I pay for a complete 75 set up?


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Well I'm different, I live in phoenix, where they are selling these things left and right. Its all about supply and demand. If there is nothing out there, then what you have is a good deal. Don't let me talk you out of it. Some don't have many options. But out here they run anywhere from$150 and up.


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## MiamiLeos (Sep 11, 2011)

No no, your not talking me out of it, I still have a lot of research to do before I dive into this. Think I'll wait on this a bit


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

MiamiLeos said:


> No no, your not talking me out of it, I still have a lot of research to do before I dive into this. Think I'll wait on this a bit


 :thumbsup:


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

MiamiLeos said:


> No no, your not talking me out of it, *I still have a lot of research to do before I dive into this.* Think I'll wait on this a bit





Reefing Madness said:


> :thumbsup:



the best approach before diving into any body of water. ;-)


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