# stocking help for 15 gallon



## dorabaker

I know i haven't been on here for ages...
haha i feel like i start every thread on this site this way!
Anyway, recently i've started thinking about stocking my tank again. My stocking plan for some time has been this: 6 cherry barbs, a bristlenose pleco and my existing golden gourami. This is in a 15 gallon tank with gravel, bogwood, live plants, and gentle filtration. 
Well a few months ago I bought the cherry barbs. since then the two weaker ones have died, but the remaining four are very healthy and absolutely charming. The tank is looking great and I'm starting to rethink my stocking plan. 
I like plecos A LOT, but they often hide and don't do much, so you don't really see them. I really like how interesting the barbs are, always active and flitting around adding interest to the top and middle of the tank. I think i'd like to get some more small mid- to top-dwelling fish, maybe 4 glowlight tetras. What I want to know is, could i still manage to keep the pleco along with those additional tetras, or would that be overstocking? I think I've asked a similar question before when I was considering adding 2 more cherry barbs to the shoal to make it 8, but I wanted to check again. If that WAS going to be too many fish, maybe I could just get 2 glowlight tetras, although i don't think that would look as good as a shoal. Or maybe I just don't a pleco at all.
Help please?!


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## Byron

Shoaling fish really deserve to be kept in groups; they can be stressed if not, and this leads to poor health--and unhappiness:-( for the fishes. All tetra, barbs, rasbora and danio are shoaling fish, so a group of 6 minimum or more (better) should be the plan. Space in a 15g is limited. If you like the cherry barb, I would add 2-3 more. A group of 6-7 glowlight tetra could work, though the gourami might have a different view of them.

Pleco depends upon the species. The common pleco attains over 12 inches and would decimate your tank. Bristlenose Pleco are 4 inches, one of those would be fine. Or a whiptail catfish which will be out and about more, and is quite interesting.

Byron.


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## dorabaker

Byron said:


> Shoaling fish really deserve to be kept in groups; they can be stressed if not, and this leads to poor health--and unhappiness:-( for the fishes. All tetra, barbs, rasbora and danio are shoaling fish, so a group of 6 minimum or more (better) should be the plan. Space in a 15g is limited. If you like the cherry barb, I would add 2-3 more. A group of 6-7 glowlight tetra could work, though the gourami might have a different view of them.
> 
> Pleco depends upon the species. The common pleco attains over 12 inches and would decimate your tank. Bristlenose Pleco are 4 inches, one of those would be fine. Or a whiptail catfish which will be out and about more, and is quite interesting.
> 
> Byron.


I was intending to get a bristlenose pleco, probably an albino one. even so i've been wondering if, when it grows big, it might start knocking things over in the tank just by swimming around. and eating the plants :-? 
When i first got the cherry barbs, the gourami chased them around for a while and i was a bit worried, but she's gotten used to them and they get along fine now. She'd been the only fish in the tank for a long time so i guess she just had to get used to having other fish around.
I just really need to know how many fish it's safe to have in the tank and then I can start figuring out what combination would be good.
thanks


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## redchigh

If you just want an active bottom-dweller, I'd recommend cories. They're fun. Even a group of 3 would probably have a lower bioload than a single BN pleco.

I agree, shoaling fishes should be in groups of at least 6. (I have 10 black neons in my ten gallon, and they're doing well.)


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## dorabaker

redchigh said:


> If you just want an active bottom-dweller, I'd recommend cories. They're fun. Even a group of 3 would probably have a lower bioload than a single BN pleco.
> 
> I agree, shoaling fishes should be in groups of at least 6. (I have 10 black neons in my ten gallon, and they're doing well.)


i love corys, but i've decided i'm not going to keep them anymore. at least not at the moment. corys were originally part of my stocking plan and i bought 3 panda corys when I set up the tank, but i had a bad experience with them and it's kind of put me off them. I've kept some that were really hardy and lived for years even though i did almost everything wrong, but my last shoal weren't like that for some reason :-( 
i've decided to stick with slightly less sensitive fish for the moment. also i'd be a bit worried about the gravel i've got hurting their barbels. (i did get a fine gravel because that's meant to be better for corys, but the pieces are actually quite sharp.)
thanks though


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## fashionfobie

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

This is a neat emulator. If you are curious of how many fish are too many you could try playing around with it. It is nice because it will factor in many variables on your tank such as filtration and size. 

~Natalie


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## dorabaker

fashionfobie said:


> AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor
> 
> This is a neat emulator. If you are curious of how many fish are too many you could try playing around with it. It is nice because it will factor in many variables on your tank such as filtration and size.
> 
> ~Natalie


i've used that site before and it's great, but i don't know how accurate it actually is for me, because i have a home-made air-operated sponge filter type thing. so basically i can't choose a filter option.

i have tried inputting my desired stocklist on AqAdvisor without choosing a filter, and i think i got a stocking level of about 95% when i chose 1 bristlenose, 1 gourami, 4 cherry barbs and 6 glowlight tetras. but even though that isn't technically overstocked according to the calculator, i'd be much more comfortable with a lower stocking level. less risky  
also, at that stocking level, the site says to change 35% of the water per week. lol at the moment i change about 20% every few weeks. (sometimes when i haven't done a water change for a while i start to worry about the pH, but every time i've checked it it's been neutral. i don't know why but the pH in my tank is very stable.)


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## Teishokue

pH isnt your enemy, as long as it is stable to a certain point it wont matter much. Well the thing about the aqadvisor is that its just an estimation. if you even use the 1' rule, you should be about alittle above the maximum in/gal. so id say strike out the barbs b/c they do better in groups of 6+ and they tend to begin agression later on in lilfe. add more tetras


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## dorabaker

Teishokue said:


> pH isnt your enemy, as long as it is stable to a certain point it wont matter much. Well the thing about the aqadvisor is that its just an estimation. if you even use the 1' rule, you should be about alittle above the maximum in/gal. so id say strike out the barbs b/c they do better in groups of 6+ and they tend to begin agression later on in lilfe. add more tetras


i already have 4 cherry barbs so i can't get rid of them even if i wanted to  cherry barbs are meant to be a peaceful species of barb anyway. apart from one barb which occasionally chases the others around a bit, they get on fine.


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## Byron

Water changes are absolutely the most important aspect of keeping a healthy aquarium. You may not "see" something, but the fish feel it. They will be healthier if you changed some water every week, and about 30%. There is so much scientific evidence to support this, I will say no more. Your fish's health and lifespan are worth it.


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## dorabaker

Byron said:


> Water changes are absolutely the most important aspect of keeping a healthy aquarium. You may not "see" something, but the fish feel it. They will be healthier if you changed some water every week, and about 30%. There is so much scientific evidence to support this, I will say no more. Your fish's health and lifespan are worth it.


 i believe you, since you're the fish expert :razz: is 30% an average water change quantity then? it just sounded like a lot to me. but i did some quick calculations in my head, and for my tank it'd only be about a bucket and a half of water. the thing is i usually stop syphoning once i've filled the bucket to the brim (there have been times where it's even overflowed because i wasn't keeping an eye on it!) and unless the tank's really dirty (i usually syphon off dead leaves and fish droppings and stuff at the same time as the water change) i don't change more than that.
on another topic, i've been playing around with different stocking combinations of AqAdvisor, and it actually seems like 6 cherry barbs and 6 glowlight tetras would be ok if i kept 4 panda corys as my bottom-feeders instead of a bristlenose. i would really love to have corys, but apart from my bad experience with my last ones (also pandas), i'm a bit worried about the gravel. i got a small sized gravel with the intention of having a suitable substrate for corys, but even though it's fairly fine (i think it's 4 mm - finest i could get), it's also quite sharp and i'm sure that wouldn't be good for their barbels. my last corys died of something that rotted away their barbels  mind you, the tank was cycling at the time. bad idea. :roll: hehe


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## Byron

As I mentioned, water changes should be every week without fail. The amount changed can vary depending upon the aquarium. More fish or larger fish means more water needs changing; live plants means less water subject to the fish load again. I think aiming for 30% is good.

Corydoras panda are very sensitive corys. Considering they are tank raised now, it is interesting that they are still one of the most sensitive species. I have several wild-caught Cory species that have given me absolutely no issue, but over the years I have lost several panda. And definitely not a fish for a new tank; once a tank is well established, they tend to settle in much better.


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## dorabaker

Byron said:


> As I mentioned, water changes should be every week without fail. The amount changed can vary depending upon the aquarium. More fish or larger fish means more water needs changing; live plants means less water subject to the fish load again. I think aiming for 30% is good.
> 
> Corydoras panda are very sensitive corys. Considering they are tank raised now, it is interesting that they are still one of the most sensitive species. I have several wild-caught Cory species that have given me absolutely no issue, but over the years I have lost several panda. And definitely not a fish for a new tank; once a tank is well established, they tend to settle in much better.


yeah, you're right about them being more sensitive, the hardiest fish i've ever kept were peppered corys and they survived several cycling tanks and a lot of poor water conditions, as opposed to my last corys, poor little things  are pandas also smaller than the average cory? because on AqAdvisor the stocking level goes up if you replace 4 pandas with 4 of another species of cory.
my tank's planted and i am a firm believer in the benefits of live plants, actually i plan to never have an aquarium without them from now on. it makes cycling so much easier, and they help keep things level once the tank's established. 
mine tank's been running for about a year now, but i'm not sure if i'd feel comfortable keeping pandas if they're sensitive, even though they are one of my favorite kinds of cory. would keeping another species of cory be ok, or would the bioload be more? (like i said, pandas are small corys aren't they...)


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## Byron

dorabaker said:


> yeah, you're right about them being more sensitive, the hardiest fish i've ever kept were peppered corys and they survived several cycling tanks and a lot of poor water conditions, as opposed to my last corys, poor little things  are pandas also smaller than the average cory? because on AqAdvisor the stocking level goes up if you replace 4 pandas with 4 of another species of cory.
> my tank's planted and i am a firm believer in the benefits of live plants, actually i plan to never have an aquarium without them from now on. it makes cycling so much easier, and they help keep things level once the tank's established.
> mine tank's been running for about a year now, but i'm not sure if i'd feel comfortable keeping pandas if they're sensitive, even though they are one of my favorite kinds of cory. would keeping another species of cory be ok, or would the bioload be more? (like i said, pandas are small corys aren't they...)


Panda do tend to remain fairly small. I have seen some refer to them as one of the "dwarfs" though this is misleading. As noted in the profile, they can attain 2 inches but usually remain smaller. I have a couple of times seen 2-inch panda in stores, but mine which I've had now for more than 2 years are still quite small, about 1.25 inches.

A group of any of the "normal" species is fine for you. I would get five.


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## fashionfobie

Similarly to Bryon I tend to see a pandas stay on the smaller side. One of my largest pandas just makes 2". I have had her for over three years now. 



Natalie


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## dorabaker

thanks both of you! :-D quite excited about getting corys again (i think i'll get peppered corys, as they're my fave, but i'll just see what the shop has in case i like the look of one of the other common species better.) for some reason keeping uneven numbers of fish makes me feel a little uneasy (every time i've done it one of them has always died lol) i know that sounds stupid though haha. so i might go with 4. 
anyway, for now i think i'll start by getting 4 glowlight tetras and see how they settle in. don't want to add more than 4 smallish fish at a time really, so i'll wait until the good bacteria catch up with the bioload and then maybe get 2 more, and 2 more cherry barbs. and then i'll see about the corys


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## Byron

dorabaker said:


> thanks both of you! :-D quite excited about getting corys again (i think i'll get peppered corys, as they're my fave, but i'll just see what the shop has in case i like the look of one of the other common species better.) for some reason keeping uneven numbers of fish makes me feel a little uneasy (every time i've done it one of them has always died lol) i know that sounds stupid though haha. so i might go with 4.
> anyway, for now i think i'll start by getting 4 glowlight tetras and see how they settle in. don't want to add more than 4 smallish fish at a time really, so i'll wait until the good bacteria catch up with the bioload and then maybe get 2 more, and 2 more cherry barbs. and then i'll see about the corys


I believe there are live plants, so I strongly recommend 6 glowlights at once. Fish added together, in larger numbers, always fare better, it takes them less time to settle in, safety in numbers, etc. It is also better with respect to the relationship between the fish in the group. I always add complete groups when adding a new species to a tank.


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## redchigh

I would reccomend the bronze cory. They're quite hardy (for a cory).


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## dorabaker

thanks byron , if you think getting 6 at once is ok i will, but because i'm not COMPLETELY sure what other fish i'm getting yet, i wanted to keep the numbers down in case i'll end up with too many otherwise.

bronze corys were my first corys  i like the peppereds though, and they are extremely hardy (well at least judging from the ones i kept lol.)


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## Byron

dorabaker said:


> thanks byron , if you think getting 6 at once is ok i will, but because i'm not COMPLETELY sure what other fish i'm getting yet, i wanted to keep the numbers down in case i'll end up with too many otherwise.
> 
> bronze corys were my first corys  i like the peppereds though, and they are extremely hardy (well at least judging from the ones i kept lol.)


I may be mis-understanidng, but in case not, I must coment. One should never acquire fish unless you absolutely want them, and then make sure they are in the proper numbers so they will be provided with what nature meant them to have. Characins, including all the tetra, need a group, and while six is bandied about as the minimum, even more is better. If you don't want 6-7 glowlight tetra, please do not buy 4. The fish will be "happier" and thus healthier and more likely to live a normal life if they are in a larger group. The fish deserve no less.


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## dorabaker

Byron said:


> I may be mis-understanidng, but in case not, I must coment. One should never acquire fish unless you absolutely want them, and then make sure they are in the proper numbers so they will be provided with what nature meant them to have. Characins, including all the tetra, need a group, and while six is bandied about as the minimum, even more is better. If you don't want 6-7 glowlight tetra, please do not buy 4. The fish will be "happier" and thus healthier and more likely to live a normal life if they are in a larger group. The fish deserve no less.


that's not what i meant, sorry if i wasn't clear :-? i wanted at least 6 glowlights, but i wasn't sure if i was getting corys or a bristlenose, and depending on what bottom-feeder/s i was going to get and how many, i wanted to make sure i wasn't going to be overstocking. so i thought i'd start with a smaller number until i'd decided exactly what i wanted to get.

anyway, on another note....i bought my glowlights today  i asked for 6 but the guy accidentally caught 7 at once so he gave me the 7th one free, which i am very happy about. they are really robust and healthy and have settled in quite well already. they are also sort of shoaling with the cherry barbs, which look so much like them i have trouble telling them apart at a glance.
I've decided to get corys instead of a pleco if i can find healthy looking ones (the shop i went to today didnt have many corys and they weren't particularly robust.) I'm not going to add any more small shoaling mid-water fish, as that part of the tank looks quite crowded now with 11 of them. the tetras and barbs seem to be getting on well so i don't think that will be a problem.
i'm going to wait for a month or so before i get any corys. if all is going well i think i'll get four.


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## Byron

dorabaker said:


> that's not what i meant, sorry if i wasn't clear :-? i wanted at least 6 glowlights, but i wasn't sure if i was getting corys or a bristlenose, and depending on what bottom-feeder/s i was going to get and how many, i wanted to make sure i wasn't going to be overstocking. so i thought i'd start with a smaller number until i'd decided exactly what i wanted to get.
> 
> anyway, on another note....i bought my glowlights today  i asked for 6 but the guy accidentally caught 7 at once so he gave me the 7th one free, which i am very happy about. they are really robust and healthy and have settled in quite well already. they are also sort of shoaling with the cherry barbs, which look so much like them i have trouble telling them apart at a glance.
> I've decided to get corys instead of a pleco if i can find healthy looking ones (the shop i went to today didnt have many corys and they weren't particularly robust.) I'm not going to add any more small shoaling mid-water fish, as that part of the tank looks quite crowded now with 11 of them. the tetras and barbs seem to be getting on well so i don't think that will be a problem.
> i'm going to wait for a month or so before i get any corys. if all is going well i think i'll get four.


That sounds good. And thanks for clarifying too.


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## dorabaker

I need to get a gravel vacuum before i get corys, i don't want them getting barbel infections. when i change the water i stir up the gravel a bit and siphon off as much detritus as i can, but it's hard to do without a real gravel vacuum.


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## Byron

dorabaker said:


> I need to get a gravel vacuum before i get corys, i don't want them getting barbel infections. when i change the water i stir up the gravel a bit and siphon off as much detritus as i can, but it's hard to do without a real gravel vacuum.


If you have a lot of plants, you can leave the substrate alone. I used to vacuum the front patch where the corys and loaches feed, but I don't even do that anymore. With lots of plants the organics get broken down quite rapidly, and this is a major source of plant nutrition occurring naturally.


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## dorabaker

thanks, that's really good to know lol


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