# breeding goldfish



## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

How old/how big do goldfish have to be to breed?
Do they only breed in spring and fall? Can they be tricked into breeding other times?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Size doesn't define the actual age however with goldfish, you may need to ensure that with all variants and full potential, breed only those that have actually reached a good size of 6 inches or more. Smaller ones may likely be stunted and the resulting generations will likely follow suit. The exception would be Siamese dolls. They grow to 4-5 inches max so they are already breedable when they reach 4 inches. Goldfish become sexually matured when they hit a year or more.

In tropical climate, they breed all year round. You might want to wait for spring and fall. But if you can do a water change with new water slightly cooler than the tank water, this might trigger the fish to spawn right away. That is if they already are at their peak.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Thank you!
do you have any pictures of Siamese dolls? 

I have a pond outside and they breed on their own, but they are all common ones, I want to have a few Ryukins and Orandas, but they never survive the winter for some reason.

I was planning on breeding the fancier ones and then introducing them to the pond while they are younger, so maybe they can adapt better? Or breeding ryukins with commons?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Be careful. I don't advising combining female ryukins with male singletails. It's extremely dangerous. If you can do the opposite, it'll work but not female ryukins to male singletails.

Ryukins and orandas have been raised in warmer waters so they are unable to adapt well to extremely cold temperatures. There's no way I'd attempt that even with fry. They are far more vulnerable to health issues.

Here's an old pic of my Siamese doll.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Thanks for the help.

So for a breeding set up-
1 male 1 female or multiple of one or the other? 
I made spawning mops.
I have a 20 gallon aquarium, and also have those big round plastic tubs. http://iandopartyrentals.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/plastic_tub_2.194132323.jpg

Tell me everything I need to know. 
What will i have more luck with surviving winter?-
Ryukin x comet
Ryukin x Hibuna

Moor x comet
Moor x Hibuna

Oranda x comet
Oranda x Hibuna

I am thinking the Ryukin crosses will be hardier, no wens, no fancy eyes.

I was just out at my pond, it thawed out today, (i keep a heater in for a hole in the ice) 
There was a pure orange comet with white caudal tips, really pretty, I brought it inside to look at a little more. 
It is not mature according to what you have told me. I think this is a baby from my Sarasa and maybe another comet or a Hibuna.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Lupin said:


> Here's an old pic of my Siamese doll.


That is cute, the only thing that makes them Siamese dolls is size, right?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Yes, it's size but all dolls sold also exhibit albinism (red eyes). I intended to breed the one in my pic but some idiot managed to kill the male doll through gross neglect and he promised to be the middleman to deliver the male to me by flight.:redmad: I haven't found another batch of new dolls since but if I do, I'll just get myself a batch of them and condition them to spawn.

I honestly hate ryukin x comet cross. They look very weird to me. I've had a singletail moor before. Looks pretty but still as vulnerable as fancies although more agile than the standard moor. I wonder if I still have a pic of her somewhere because some idiot infiltrated my photobucket and emptied it before I had a chance to seal the privacy settings.

I've seen the oranda x comet cross. I don't like it either. A comet is pretty as a comet. Additional wen makes them look like a freak with brains popping out.:sarcastic: Ironic I should say that since orandas are my most favorite but the slender body shape just doesn't match the wens.*shrugs*


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Lupin said:


> Yes, it's size but all dolls sold also exhibit albinism (red eyes). I intended to breed the one in my pic but some idiot managed to kill the male doll through gross neglect and he promised to be the middleman to deliver the male to me by flight.:redmad: I haven't found another batch of new dolls since but if I do, I'll just get myself a batch of them and condition them to spawn.
> 
> I honestly hate ryukin x comet cross. They look very weird to me. I've had a singletail moor before. Looks pretty but still as vulnerable as fancies although more agile than the standard moor. I wonder if I still have a pic of her somewhere because some idiot infiltrated my photobucket and emptied it before I had a chance to seal the privacy settings.
> 
> I've seen the oranda x comet cross. I don't like it either. A comet is pretty as a comet. Additional wen makes them look like a freak with brains popping out.:sarcastic: Ironic I should say that since orandas are my most favorite but the slender body shape just doesn't match the wens.*shrugs*


Siamese Dolls sound even more interesting... 
If you cross the doll into other full sized golds is there a chance you will get more dwarfs? 
what caused them to be dwarfish?
sorry about all my questions!!

I would love for you to tell me more!
I love orandas, but they are always in bad shape around here, one LFS has AMAZING pearlscales, they are just beautiful! 

My favorite goldfish have to be the Tosakin, the Shukin, and the Oranda.
I have NEVER seen a Tosakin in real life but I fell in love when I saw a picture of it on a Hikari product.

Share all your expertise (did i spell that right?) with me! Share all the pics you can! 

What do you recommend as a hardy but fancy cross for Ohio?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

I haven't really studied the dolls much. There is very limited info about them. I've wondered about breeding the doll with my other goldies but refused the risk as they were a lot bigger than her ranging from 6 -10 inches so I hated to risk that. Besides, I had only three telescopes at that time, all girls. The rest are not telescopes and I do not like to find out the mutated forms. No extra space if nobody wants them. It's impossible for me to find a perfectly healthy male telescope. I regret not getting another doll at that time but then again, most of the dolls sold by the notorious shop were really deformed or sick to begin with so I did not chance that.

Fantails are worth a try. They tend to do better than fancies.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

What makes the fantail hardier?
They look like fancies.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Hard to explain.lol But they have less health issues than a lot of other fish.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Lupin said:


> Hard to explain.lol But they have less health issues than a lot of other fish.


Ok thanks!

I have a 55 gallon tank, it has plants in it right now but i am thinking about dumping it out and making it a goldie tank.

I need to find some Siamese dolls, they sound cool, would be interesting to have.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

I have Rubbermaid utility tubs, are they safe for goldfish? I know some things have chemicals that leech into the water.

http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/1390/139001_300.jpg

I also have a United Plastics utility tub

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/HardwareandTools/051596080167?wid=200&hei=200


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Nothing like this?


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Lupin said:


> Nothing like this?


I have small ones of those (1-2" deep) not big enough and they are also buried out back, full of plants.

I asked my mom if I could buy a rubbermaid trough, she looked at me like im crazy:rofl:
(I have asked for weirder things tho)

she said to ask about the two things we already have. :-?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

How big are the ones you have? The shallowest depth I'd go for goldfish is 6-8 inches.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Lupin said:


> How big are the ones you have? The shallowest depth I'd go for goldfish is 6-8 inches.


They are 2-3 inches deep & filled partly with dirt, they are bog gardens. There is no room for goldfish in them.

the buckets I have are -
19" wide 17" deep (united plastics)
18" wide 14" deep (rubbermaid)


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

They're too tall.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Too tall? 
more volume isnt better?

:shock:


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

tah1795 said:


> Too tall?
> more volume isnt better?
> 
> :shock:


More volume is better but they're too tall for your goldfish. Most goldfish are too prone to floaty issues due to the pressure by extreme depth. You'll find tosakins, pearlies and ranchus are often kept in shallow water to minimize their swimming imbalance. In tosas' case, the flat caudal fin prevents them from swimming properly at all.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Aaah! I get it now!

Thanks!!

I never thought about the depth really being a problem (a 55 gallon tank is about 17" deep)

If I only put 6-8 inches of water in the taller bins would it be okay or does the water surface need to be more open?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Need more water surface.:sad:


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Lupin said:


> Need more water surface.:sad:


how much more surface?

What do you recommend to use? 
I might be able to buy another one of the pond things like you posted a pic of.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Google the fiberglass ponds. Those are the most appropriate ones for goldfish.:wink:


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

ok, I got a 100g rubbermaid stock tank thing.

I love it!

I am adding many plants.

the fish I am adding are-
3 orandas
2 Ryukins
1 Black moor
1 Shubunkin
1 Sarasa


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

It could work but IMO, I would not combine fancies and singletails together.


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## tah1795 (Jan 30, 2011)

Lupin said:


> It could work but IMO, I would not combine fancies and singletails together.


I am going to make sure the single tails are females.
If there are any problems with feeding I will remove the singletails


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