# Suggestions for mid and top dwellers needed.



## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

Hi.

I've recently set up a 40 gallon tank and need something to occupy the mid and upper levels exclusively. Currently my entire stock is made of bottom dwellers. Looking to get attractive mid/top dwellers. I was considering Discus but I read they're extremely sensitive. I'm thinking maybe an angelfish or two (yes/no?).


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

So what sort of bottom dwellers? How many? Soft or hard water? What temp? Planted or no? Strong, little, or no current? Lots of places you can go here, but the best advice will depend a lot on the answwers to those questions.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

tophat665 said:


> So what sort of bottom dwellers? How many? Soft or hard water? What temp? Planted or no? Strong, little, or no current? Lots of places you can go here, but the best advice will depend a lot on the answwers to those questions.


4 Sterba Corys, 2 Ghost Shrimp, and 1 Vampire Shrimp. I also have 1 male fantail betta that occupies all levels of the tank, but usually can be found near the top. The water is neutral, as my tap water's pH is 7. It is not planted. I would say the current is not strong, but not weak. I have two HOB filters, except one is a nano filter, so it doesn't generate that strong a current. The reason why I have two working in conjunction is because the main filter, the AquaClear50, is positioned to the left of the tank. To avoid stagnating one side, and to improve aeration and gas exchange, I added a nano filter to the far right. Why not just CENTER the AC50? Because of the way my hood is designed (stupid people imo), there's only one slot large enough, and it's to the far left. I'm not about to take cutters to my hood either. :/

Hope that helps. Thanks!


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Mid: A shoal of 30-40 cardinals or neons.

Surface: Hatchetfish/penguin tetras/glass bloodfins

Too many choices available in the aquarium trade. Discus aren't exactly delicate. It is a matter of trying to give them the best environment possible. A 40 gallons is too small to keep 4 or more.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

I don't think I'd like a large shoal like that. It's a waste of perfectly good space for several larger fish or a couple of bigger ones. Plus I have a bad history with Neon tetras, thanks for the suggestion though.

edit - 

I've had my eyes on Glass Catfish ever since I first read about them. How do they sound? I'd probably get a group of 4 or 5. They're quite impressive to see shoal together. Only, they get up to 6", and a shoal of 4 or more essentially uses up a lot of my tank space. 

So you would say Discus aren't very delicate? I really want two of them to be my centerpieces. Do they require a shoal?

edit2 - damn they need at least 4 - 6.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

MattD said:


> I've had my eyes on Glass Catfish ever since I first read about them. How do they sound? I'd probably get a group of 4 or 5. They're quite impressive to see shoal together. Only, they get up to 6", and a shoal of 4 or more essentially uses up a lot of my tank space.


Get 6 instead of less than that. Not a bad idea at all and they'll appreciate a bit of currents. But never keep them with boisterous fish particularly the danios. They often do not get their fair share of food at this rate.


> So you would say Discus aren't very delicate? I really want two of them to be my centerpieces. Do they require a shoal?


Wild ones are worse than captive-bred ones and the latter isn't exactly sensitive and in fact, will adapt well to various water conditions provided you do it carefully. You are better off getting them in your breeder than your lfs but with a 40 gallons, you cannot proceed to keeping discus. Discus are often shy therefore requiring their own company. Most often, a single one will simply pine away thus it's not worth the risk trying one.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm looking at Angelfish now I think. I plan on purchasing all of them while they're still very small, and the same coloring.

Maybe 3?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

MattD said:


> I'm looking at Angelfish now I think. I plan on purchasing all of them while they're still very small, and the same coloring.
> 
> Maybe 3?


It should be okay but once two pair up, you will need another tank. They will most likely pair up around 6 months of age.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

Please elaborate on why I will need another tank eventually. If this is a sure thing then I can't get angels.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

MattD said:


> Please elaborate on why I will need another tank eventually. If this is a sure thing then I can't get angels.


It is down to luck if you'll be able to get a breeding pair. A breeding pair can terrorize their tankmates. A 20 gallons tall will be sufficient as a temporary housing where a pair can lay their eggs. If you are prepared to raise a hundred fry, then go for it.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

No fry allowed. 

I think then, that I'll have to reconsider my mid/top dwellers.

Any other suggestions? :x :? :?


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## leifthebunny (Mar 13, 2007)

How about Gouramis. Though my pearls are the ones that hang out in the caves


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

With a betta in the tank, that puts the kibosh on ony sort of long finned critters: Gouramis and Angelfish especially. While I am sure that someone will pop up with the fact that they have been keeping Angels and Gouramis and a male Betta together for years with no problems, they will be the exception, no the rule. Also probably means that African Butterfly fish are right out.

For the surface, you might want to go with 8 silver or marbled hatchetfish. They get 2 1/2" long. You need 8 because they need to be in a group of at least 6 or they pine away (again, someone will say I have had 3 for 35 years and they're healthy as horses), and they can be delicate, so I would get an extra couple.

For the middle, rainbowfish or Congo tetras. Both of them get in the 3-4" range (Praecox(sp?) Rainbows stay smaller) and I think they'll be all right with a betta. Again, schooling fish.

The problem is that non schooling fish tend to be predators. Not compatible with bettas.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

I thought about getting maybe 4 or 5 Boeseman's Rainbowfish, as I love their activity and colors. Also, Hathchetfish have always been on my radar, as I've wanted them for my 20 gal ages ago.

It is unfortunate that my Betta is limiting my choices, but he is my favorite fish in my tank, I refuse to relocate or return him.


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## leifthebunny (Mar 13, 2007)

I've got a pair of Boeseman's Rainbowfish and they are great. The only thing I notice is, putting food in the tank makes them turn into superballs so I have to feed a bit extra, otherwise the rest of the fish lose out on theirs


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

I checked out Boeseman's Rainbowfish again today at my lfs, and for some reason they were REALLY lacking in color. I understand their color changes somewhat with mood/health, but how great are the color variances.


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## GW (May 25, 2007)

I have no idea on how well they would go together with the Betta...but the 5 Black Neons I added to my 29g a short while back have made a home for themselves and have been cruising the middle of the water column ever since.
If one decides to go to the other side of the tank...they all go...and their always moving!


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## leifthebunny (Mar 13, 2007)

MattD said:


> I checked out Boeseman's Rainbowfish again today at my lfs, and for some reason they were REALLY lacking in color. I understand their color changes somewhat with mood/health, but how great are the color variances.


What kind of conditions were the fish in? Rainbowfish are generally pretty fast so they tend not to get beat up by other fish. Might be the lighting conditions. I notice that my fish get better coloration when I bring them home. Part of it is lighting in the tank/shop and other part is the substrate. Many LFS use particular colors to enhance the colors of certain fish, others, it will tone down the colors of the fish.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

Oh they were in a fine tank, as it had beautiful Ropefish and other shrimp inside that looked quite healthy. I say the Rainbowfish looked dull because compared to other pics I've seen they weren't nearly as glamorous.


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## leifthebunny (Mar 13, 2007)

Unfortunately, pictures rarely do fish justice. Most pictures of GBRs I've seen do little justice to the species.


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm saying the fish in the tank which I saw in person looked dull compared to the fine pictures I saw.


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## leifthebunny (Mar 13, 2007)

Understandable. I've found with my rainbowfish, angles change the perception of hte coloration. Sometimes they look "dull", other times, they look flashy. Sounds like the pics that you've seen do the fish credit.


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## chicago_animal (Jun 16, 2007)

Are the Rainbow Fish bottomw dwellers?


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## MattD (Apr 25, 2007)

No they seem to occupy all levels of the tank, but the mid and upper predominantly.

At least from what I saw at the lfs. And they dont seem to be strict schoolers, more like occasional congregations.


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## leifthebunny (Mar 13, 2007)

Mine also seem to spend a lot of time in the lower levels, just not hiding out in the caves, just depends on where they perceive the action at.


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