# if the aquarium has enough plants can one remove the air stones?



## leogtr (Jan 19, 2011)

Hi everybody my plants are growing fast soon Ill have to remove stuff..

how dense does the tank have to be with plants in order to remove the air stones? maybe replace it with a smaller one? what are some good plants for oxygen replenishment? 

also..I have never used the vacuum to clean the substrate..only a few small areas that I can clean but Im not sure if I should...should I vacuum the substrate?


thank you for your help


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Air stones are for your viewing pleasure. An adequately filtered tank provides enough surface disturbance to facilitate the CO2/O2 exchange. I don't have any air stones and my tanks are not planted.

If your tank is planted, then the wast will be used as fertilizer. I would only vac the open areas.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Agree. Fish waste gets broken down by bacteria in the substrate, and the organics become nutrients for the plant roots. You do not want to mess with the substrate around plants, let nature help you. In all my tanks, I only vacuum (and then very lightly) the substrate that is in front with no plants. I have bottom fish like corys and loaches, and I like to keep their feeding area tidy.

On the airstones, remove them. They are detrimental to plant growth because the extra water movement and surface disturbance drives CO2 out of the water faster.

Byron.


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## leogtr (Jan 19, 2011)

jaysee said:


> Air stones are for your viewing pleasure. An adequately filtered tank provides enough surface disturbance to facilitate the CO2/O2 exchange. I don't have any air stones and my tanks are not planted.
> 
> If your tank is planted, then the wast will be used as fertilizer. I would only vac the open areas.


thank you very much for you help



Byron said:


> Agree. Fish waste gets broken down by bacteria in the substrate, and the organics become nutrients for the plant roots. You do not want to mess with the substrate around plants, let nature help you. In all my tanks, I only vacuum (and then very lightly) the substrate that is in front with no plants. I have bottom fish like corys and loaches, and I like to keep their feeding area tidy.
> 
> On the airstones, remove them. They are detrimental to plant growth because the extra water movement and surface disturbance drives CO2 out of the water faster.
> 
> Byron.


ohhhhh okay thank you Mr. Byron see I thought that the air stone was necessary for the fish to have enough oxygen... I have about 30% of the aquarium covered in plants will the fish be okay with the oxygen levels? Im just worried about them not getting enough oxygen..


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> I thought that the air stone was necessary for the fish to have enough oxygen... I have about 30% of the aquarium covered in plants will the fish be okay with the oxygen levels? Im just worried about them not getting enough oxygen..


Provided the fish load is not beyond what the aquarium can naturally handle, you will not have an oxygen deficiency with or without plants. Oxygen shortage only occurs when the fish load is too great and/or something goes wrong biologically. Fish, plants and bacteria consume oxygen and give off CO2 continually, day and night. Live plants produce more oxygen than they use during daylight (photosynthesis), and again provided the fish load is not beyond the tank's natural capacity the oxygen produced will usually be more than what is used/needed. There are no "rules" for this, as many factors affect a tank's capacity. General guidelines are to keep the fish load balanced for the volume, have "compatible" fish (which includes water parameters, environment, behaviours), ensure regular maintenance (water changes weekly, filter rinsing as needed), healthy plants, not overfeeding, and correct temperature for the fish species (the warmer the water the less oxygen it can hold naturally and at the same time the more oxygen the fish will need).


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## leogtr (Jan 19, 2011)

Byron said:


> Provided the fish load is not beyond what the aquarium can naturally handle, you will not have an oxygen deficiency with or without plants. Oxygen shortage only occurs when the fish load is too great and/or something goes wrong biologically. Fish, plants and bacteria consume oxygen and give off CO2 continually, day and night. Live plants produce more oxygen than they use during daylight (photosynthesis), and again provided the fish load is not beyond the tank's natural capacity the oxygen produced will usually be more than what is used/needed. There are no "rules" for this, as many factors affect a tank's capacity. General guidelines are to keep the fish load balanced for the volume, have "compatible" fish (which includes water parameters, environment, behaviours), ensure regular maintenance (water changes weekly, filter rinsing as needed), healthy plants, not overfeeding, and correct temperature for the fish species (the warmer the water the less oxygen it can hold naturally and at the same time the more oxygen the fish will need).


oh okay gosh I have problems overfeeding the fish..

thank you for this information Mr. Byron I really appreciate it


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*hmmm*

in one of my heavy planted tanks i have removed the air stone but have been getting the old PH drops..any suggestions on that...is it a night thing that can be remedeed..


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

badxgillen said:


> in one of my heavy planted tanks i have removed the air stone but have been getting the old PH drops..any suggestions on that...is it a night thing that can be remedeed..


pH fluctuations naturally occur in a planted aquarium and in natural waters. The difference is greater from day to night in a well-planted tank, but again provided the tank is otherwise balanced this should not be an issue for the fish.

The pH of water is closely linked to the amount of dissolved CO2 in the water. CO2 releases carbonic acid into the water, acidifying the water, and the pH naturally lowers. In an aquarium, other acids are being produced as well, such as tannins from wood, organic decay, etc., further lowering the pH over time. In an aquarium without plants, the pH remains relatively stable because the CO2 being produced is diffused from the water at the surface and oxygen is brought in to replace it. Provided the biological balance is stable, the pH will be too.

With plants, CO2 is assimilated in photosynthesis which occurs during daylight (and provided the other nutrients are available and light is sufficient). This assimilation of CO2 means that carbonic acid is no longer being released, and the pH will consequently not fall or may actually rise (this depends upon the hardness, or rather the level of minerals such as calcium that can bind with acids). During darkness, the assimilation of CO2 does not occur, and the level of CO2 increases through normal respiration of fish, plants and bacteria; the increase in carbonic acid causes the pH to lower. The pH in a heavily-planted tank will therefore be lower at the start of the day (daylight) and higher at the end of the day. This fluctuation may be minimal in harder water or greater in softer water. It occurs in nature just as it does in aquaria and fish are adapted to it, provided it is not too great as it could be in an aquarium. A fluctuation of 1 degree, say from pH 6.5 to 7.5 is considered the maximum and anything beyond this can be detrimental to fish. This great a fluctuation is highly unlikely, unless CO2 diffusion occurs constantly. If it is 1 degree or more, CO2 diffusion should not be used at night (it shouldn't in any case as it is being wasted) and an airstone during darkness will offset the fluctuation to a safer level.

In all my years of natural (no CO2 added) well-planted tanks which have a fair fish load, I have never had issues with oxygen depletion.

Byron.


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*well*

i have understood that..my question is the remedee...should i run a air stone at night..or let it ride..i have a PH drop from about neutral 7 to about 6-6.2 i could easily get a timer...or i could just as easily not..from what you are saying it shouldnt matter ..correct?


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## DKRST (Jan 11, 2011)

badxgillen said:


> in one of my heavy planted tanks i have removed the air stone but have been getting the old PH drops..any suggestions on that...is it a night thing that can be remedeed..


Byron's correct about the pH - it's the rate of change in the pH that causes fish difficulties. A slow change overnight followed by a _gradual _change during the normal day/night cycle is not an issue. Like-wise with small temperature variations. 

RE: airstones in planted tanks. As Byron said, in a balanced, planted, non-overstocked tank, it's not a situation where you are likely to ever need an airstone.

Sorry - just read your post above. If you are using a reliable test kit, that's a pretty good size drop, IMO. Some folks with really, really heavily planted tanks run an airstone at night to minimize the pH shifts. Downside is the airstones will drive off the tank CO2.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

badxgillen said:


> i have understood that..my question is the remedee...should i run a air stone at night..or let it ride..i have a PH drop from about neutral 7 to about 6-6.2 i could easily get a timer...or i could just as easily not..from what you are saying it shouldnt matter ..correct?


Want to ensure I understand this correctly. At the start of the day, after the night, the pH is 6, and by the evening before the lights go out, it is 7? Do you have CO2 addition (diffusion)? And have you ever observed any reaction from the fish?


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*oops*

sorry didnt mean to jack this thread but i am trying to breed some kribensis species and from my understanding they like a higher and stable PH...you are correct on the PH fluctuations being low in the morning and i dont add CO2 ...and as far as fish go no i have never noticed abnormal behaviour in my previous fishes in fact much breeding but i am aiming to get these newer kribs to do there thing and your opinion would be apreciated...


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## DKRST (Jan 11, 2011)

badxgillen said:


> sorry didnt mean to jack this thread but i am trying to breed some kribensis species and from my understanding they like a higher and stable PH...you are correct on the PH fluctuations being low in the morning and i dont add CO2 ...and as far as fish go no i have never noticed abnormal behaviour in my previous fishes in fact much breeding but i am aiming to get these newer kribs to do there thing and your opinion would be apreciated...


This question is best posted as a new thread under the fish-specific area, you'll be more likely to get more precise responses...


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*well*

please just tell me if i should add an air stone at night...is the PH swing too much...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I agree on a new thread for the kribs issue. I had thought of moving our last few posts to a new thread, but some of the info was inter-connected and might leave the existing thread dangling so to speak, so I think it best to leave things here and continue on the krib question in a new thread. I'll leave that for you badxgillen to start, and I'll respond there to that issue.

I think the pH/oxygen issue is resolved here for the purposes of this thread, but if anyone has further questions on that, it can continue.

Byron.

Edit: Your last post came up when I posted, so to answer you, no, from what you have told me I do not consider it an issue. B.


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*ok*

thank you.


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