# First Salt water...new build



## Roccus

I've been keeping fish in some capacity for over 50 years...I've always wanted a slat water tank and found this web site with the intention of learning enough ( along with alot of reading) to start one...

I've chosen a 60 gallon tank and stand as the basis of my build...it will be diplayed in my foyer away from natural lighting( so I cna control the exact light) and central to the room... I have run supply and return lines through the wall down to the basement where I will house the sump under a stair well...I've also added a GFI outlet to the wal for power...

I made the sump/trickle/wet/dry filter out of a 26 gallon HD tool box.. the botton lined with acrylic to provide a smoothe surface for partitioning... the filter chamber is 12" X 12" by 4" and houses a combination of bio balls/charcoal and filter media that drips through a section of egg crate... the water that trickles through exits below into a chamber that houses my skimmer rated at 100 gallons.. the water height is maintained by a "V" shaped baffels that keeps the water level at a max of 8".. flow to the next chamber starts at 7"... that chamber flows into a second chamber that will host live sand, live rock and possibly some macro algae... that chamber flows through a section of foam ( intended to be a bubble shiled) into narrow chamber that houses a 1500 GPH mag drive pump that with the caculated head pressure will deliver 750GPH back to the tank..any excess water ( from the pump) will be diverted back to the trickle filter chamber via a bypass system of ball valves.. this same by pass will charge the siphon any time it needs to be started...the siphon is fitted with a siphon break at the min tank level to prevent a flood in my sump... the sump is marked with a max level to prevent over filling the tank in the event the siphon should break...I've pre tested the whole system with fresh water and am happy with the "ebb and flow"...I intend to add a self filling portion for the sump, with the supply coming from my R/O system I already use for my fresh water tanks..
I cut a section of egg crate to line the bottom of my tank and support my base rock on.... ( it;s been ordered).... once that is in and arranged artfuly... I'll fill the tank with salt water and allow any adjustments in chemistry and temperture ( provided by 2 150 W heaters) to take place before I add the live sand and live rock...( sand first so I dont over load the filter )...once those items are done.. I wait..

I've been out of my mind busy at work and at home.. when I get a chance I'll take some pictures...


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## badxgillen

Nice and well planned will get you far and it sounds like there was alot of thought on this one. Is it going to be a fish only tank?


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Nice and well planned will get you far and it sounds like there was alot of thought on this one. Is it going to be a fish only tank?


I plan on a making it a reef tank as well in the future.. maybe in a year or so ... for now.. life will be simple... live rock( 50 lbs of it.. plus a layer of small rock in the sump)) ...live sand( I'll start with 50 lbs and see how it looks).. a few hardy fish maybe clowns and some blennies... as well as a few bottom dweling critters.. but I need more research on that.. what fish I do stock will be compatible with a reef set up so I dont complicate things in the future.. I've spent most of my energies on preparing a suitable habitat.. if I've learned nothing from fersh water that relates to salt it is nothing GOOD happens quickly... bad stuff can happen FAST.... I will go with hi grade reef quality salt and see how I do with the water quality before i even entertain the thought of corals and other reef creatures... i expect a few bumps so it will be slow and steady until i figure how each thing I do effects the tank...I have much to learn.. I have the patience of an oyster...I expect to be on this earth at least another 20 years..... time is my friend.


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## Roccus

*Update...*

so Ive already "tweaked"my filter desigh a little.... originally, I was going to have a 3/4" line in and a 1" line out.. simply a pair of 90's with shore pipe inbetween... the supply line( 1") ws just going to be 2" 90 degree PVC fitting with a siphon break.... well after reading more, and acting on advise seen here, I found a home made weir on Melevsreef.com...

so, after 3 attempts and desigining a home made break to do the bending i made a custom weir for my tank that not only looks good (you barely can see it looking in the tank) it will start and stop the siphon when the pump is turned off and on.... way better than and white PVC pipe...and the addition of a Durso stand pipe ( home made)keeps things quiet

I tested it with fresh water last night and all systems are go... 
I've decided to add to the fitration, by creating a manifold and adding 2 2 little fishies phos ban reactors.. one for phose ban.. the other for carbon.... I've left a third port for a calcium reactor to be added in the future... this all can run on the bypass water recirculated thanks to the new 1500GPH pump added ( mainly because I needed to compensate for head pressure)...

I started mixing D/I water( my unit can make 100 GPD) in 30 gallon poly containers ( hopefully food safe )... I orderd my live rock ( 40 lbs)and it is schedlued to be delived on Friday.... tonight i need to create my aqua scape( I've got 40 lbs of base rock and will grade 50lbs of live sand in the mix when i add water) so I can get the water in the trank and clear so I can finish the scape with live rock on Saturday... I have been taking pictures and will post them when I'm done...


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## badxgillen

I would love some pics,sounds like some nice well thought out work going into this build.


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## willow

oo ello :-D


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## Roccus

*Picture time*

Last night I mixed up 60 gallons of water with instant ocean salt crystals... each "vat" has a heater in it and was warmed to 76 degrees... a power head in each one is circulating the elixer.. salinity was set at 1.022.. i'll check salinity and the reast of the chemistry tonight and start a start up log...if it's a go, Ill put in the live sand( 64lbs) and enough water to cover it.. .. 25 lbs of live rock is scheduled to be delivered Friday... Saturday i'll put in the live rock and fire it up...

Picture 1 is of the location... I ran a 20 Amp GFI circuit from the fuse panel and put a duplex outlet behind the tank location...plumbing was run through the wall and down the stair well... the filter will reside under the stair well...

the next picture is of the hot mess... that is AFTER all the plumbing was complete... i can't wait to get my shop back in order!

teh next 5 are all of the filter system.... Phosphate and carbon reactors are part of the mix... I plan on adding a calcium reactor in the near future... the small 10 gallon "tank" next to the filter will be a make up tank with DI water... it will be added via a in house pump, controlled by a baffeled float switch.. pictures tomorrow.. Reactors are by 2 little fishies and the skimmer is marine land model 100 in sump.. pump is a 1500 GPH Mag drive that should deliver approx 650 GPH return to the tank @ 13' of head..there should be enough residual to run the reactors... if not.. i have made provisions to run another pump

The next series is of the tank itself.. not much to look at now now but by Saturday noon it will look like something( I hope)... lighting will be controlled by timers... a set of colered l LED lights will be behind the base rock set to go off 30 minutes before the first light is turned on ( same as my fresh water tank).. the second light will turn on 20 minutes latter... a 500GPH circulator will be installed in the opposite corner of the return line to increase the flow..

a 200 W hheater will be in the tank in the corner... another 150 W heater will be in the filter sump.. as will live sand and live rock rubble.. there will also be a light and cover on the sump.. the light will be on an opposite cycle from the tank..

next picture is of the elixer mixing...it's getting fun now!


I know it's not part of the build but.. this is of my babies having breakfast...


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## badxgillen

I have contemplated going through a wall for some of my projects but I always figure out an alternative.In your instance this will prevent clutter and allow for a more complex filtration than allowed within the stand. Looks really clean where the tank is and how it is being setup.

Man oh Man I wish I had a shop,but if I did it would look like that most of the time. I am always building things for myself or other people,and then there are always problems to fix.

I might leave the reactors off until you get your cycle going ,the natural processes will take some time but leave you with a better seeded bacteria content.

If you start to do SPS corals to an extent you may want to remove the bio balls media and swap it out for a micron sock that you change frequently or an algae scrubber. Bio balls and such over promote aerobic bacteria wich can lead to some higher than wanted nitrates.SPS in genersl Hate nitrates.Just my opinion though.

I must say this is one of the nicer setups going on here, I can tell you have been through this kind of building project before and have done your research.

You might be getting full up on rock once the live arrives,gotta leave room for some nice specimen rocks you find at the stores.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> I have contemplated going through a wall for some of my projects but I always figure out an alternative.In your instance this will prevent clutter and allow for a more complex filtration than allowed within the stand. Looks really clean where the tank is and how it is being setup.
> 
> Man oh Man I wish I had a shop,but if I did it would look like that most of the time. I am always building things for myself or other people,and then there are always problems to fix.
> 
> I might leave the reactors off until you get your cycle going ,the natural processes will take some time but leave you with a better seeded bacteria content.
> 
> If you start to do SPS corals to an extent you may want to remove the bio balls media and swap it out for a micron sock that you change frequently or an algae scrubber. Bio balls and such over promote aerobic bacteria wich can lead to some higher than wanted nitrates.SPS in genersl Hate nitrates.Just my opinion though.
> 
> I must say this is one of the nicer setups going on here, I can tell you have been through this kind of building project before and have done your research.
> 
> You might be getting full up on rock once the live arrives,gotta leave room for some nice specimen rocks you find at the stores.


Thanks for you advise.. it is greatly appreciated... I kind of figured I'd let "nature" do it's thing before running the reactors.. I'm glad you mentioned it.. I figured the boi balls would be a good thing for the cycle, but after all the reading I've done.. I knew they'd be leaviing( a small portion at a time ) once the tank got established... I have the sock in waiting....

I forgot to mention, I have an elcecronic water level swithch to protect the pump from burining out in the even the siphon should be disrupted and the power is still on...


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## badxgillen

That switch to the pump power is something I have never done but have wanted to for extra security,to be honest the only automatic things i have is a auto top off system and that is only on one tank. I am getting envious of the fine details here.

I forget did you mention here or another thread about your upcoming lighting?


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> That switch to the pump power is something I have never done but have wanted to for extra security,to be honest the only automatic things i have is a auto top off system and that is only on one tank. I am getting envious of the fine details here.
> 
> I forget did you mention here or another thread about your upcoming lighting?


My "fail safe" ideas come from my line of work... I'm a marine mechanic and machinist by trade, but, 19 years ago got hired to run the maintenance of a mediuim sized machine shop, I regularly work with pumps, water treatment and alarms.. so it's becomes second nature to think about these things..

The lights.. i did mention it... but not in great detail...for now, the lights that came the the hoods can stay... when I added the live sand last night ( I still have a little more "grading to do when my live rock arrives)I installed a multi color LED behind one of the caves, and graded sand up to it..speaking of sand... I went with a little coarser aggrigate, my way of thinking was, that if I didn't like it, capping it with fine sand wouldnt be a big deal... conversely, if Ihad the fine sand, and it wasn't to my liking, removing it would be more work than I care to think about.. i like the coarser sand alot BTW... back to the lights.. the LED is only a 12" color changing strip, so it illuniminates the back of the cave... it looked pretty cool, although the water hadn't cleared completely yet... that LED is on a timer set to go off at 5 AM ... at 5:30 the first hood light comes on eventually this will be a softer light bulb to simulate sunrise and early morning sun...at 6: AM the second light is set to come on.. this will be a more intense light .. to simulate the latter part of the morning and day... the LED will shut off now and remain off until 5PM.. then it will turn on.... at 5:30.. the "bright" noon day light will shut down leaving the softer light lit for another 30 minutes... and 30 minutes latter the cave lights will go out...

As i said earlier I added the live sand last night, and filled the tank abput 7/8th of the way... just shy of the filter ( I had to make more water)... I installed the circulator pump on the opposite side of the return below the intake for the weir... angling it slightly upward to meet the return water that will aim downward to the front of the tank, creating a counter clockwise current.... I "hid" the probe for the digital themometer behind it....I installed the 200 watt heater low in the water colum in the opposite corner near the intake ( there is also a 150 watt heater in the sump)...

the live rock is "out for delivery" so I may have to leave work a little early today;-)

I almost forgot.... I bought some black paper to slip under the white spots to simulate the depth of the back of the cave


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## badxgillen

Are you going to run an actinic and a 10,000 K like most people or are you going for a warmer color scheme? I did not see if they were T-8s or T-5s?High Output maybe?


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Are you going to run an actinic and a 10,000 K like most people or are you going for a warmer color scheme? I did not see if they were T-8s or T-5s?High Output maybe?


they are T 5's... that's what I have read.. I need more thought and study..( hence leaving the stock ones for now).. what do you recomend... because I want to gear everything twoards a reef tank, I want to have everything aiming in that direction.. if for no other reason to "practice" for when i introduce coarals in the future...for now until the tank cycles, I will be limiting the light to 4 hours a day to keep algae growth to a minimum..


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## badxgillen

If you have the option to go with one blue actinic and one 10,000 Kelvin do so as this will have good spectrum for growth and still look good. This may not be enough to keep all types of corals but will be good fro some soft corals and LPS...You can always upgrade later on.


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## Roccus

*the waiting game...*

My live rock arrived on time Friday afternoon.... so I placed them in the tank topped it off with water and fired up the filter... 
I finished the fresh water top off and the low water shut off ( for the mag pump) I added a 5 w light for the center portion of the filter I added about 5 lbs of live sand and the rock rubble to the filter..
I decided to separate the skimmer and put it on a switch so I wouldn't have to keep unplugging it to service the cup...

I did a water test today and was expecting ammonia and was very surprised to find 20ppm nitrates ( my skimmer is still in break in mode ) so I did a 20 gallon water change( 1/3 of the volume)... ( ammonia was at 0..nitrIte was @.50).. I'll retest in the morning...The salt mixture was made from DI water, so I know the nitrates didn't come from the water...
My parameters are as follows after the first test... Phosphate 0...NitrAte 20ppm...Calcium.320ppm...Ammonia @0...NirtrIte @.50ppm...KH 161.1........Salinity @1.023... water temp 78.6

Pictured are the low level shut off ( yellow switch) for the pump.... the auto top off I made from 1/2" pvc and drilled and tapped a 1/8NPT hole in the cap for the sensor... I housed the pipe in a 1" pvc pipe and drilled out the bushing to accept the 1/2" pipe... a 1/4" 20 hole wa tapped into the bushing to accept the ss adjustment screw... a plastic box was set inside and the switch wired to the outlet.... the 10 gallon bucket ( with pump) is filled with DI water for top offs...

The last picture is as she sets now...still little cloudy but I'm happy with the circulation ( after considerable monkeying around)...


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## badxgillen

If you want any macro algae I can send you some as I have way too much right now. I could also send you some of my live sand with spaghetti worms and copopods.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> If you want any macro algae I can send you some as I have way too much right now. I could also send you some of my live sand with spaghetti worms and copopods.


That is a very genrous offer...Macro algae would go a long way towards helping the tank stabilize until the tank matures a little...

I got called into work early this AM... time to run a test...it'l lhave to wait until I get home..


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## Roccus

*update...*

Nitrates disapeared after water change.. and have not reapeared since... nitrite showed at 0.25...no amonia... I've since added macro algae to the tank and macro algae and pods to the refugium... skimmer is now producing skimate and the tank is crystal clear ....and I've raised the salinity to 1.024 where i plan on keeping it....if the water parameters hold tight , Ill pick up a clean up crew next week...

I've since made a light timing bar to go inside the cabinate( I forgot to photograph it)...I was mistaken on my lighting.. the bulbs are T-8's... the same fixtures on my fresh water rank... I had a 10'000 K bulb that was an experiment on the fresh tank from when i was selecting the best light for the plants..it was too much there but looks great on this application.... eventually ( when the bulbs need replacing) I will be changing out the fixtures...

I made a small test station for checking my water quality, previously, I did it at the kitchen table... I cant count the vials i have dropped ( and broken) onto the ceramic tile floor in the kitchen... so I made a test tube holder from egg crate and a small section on foam board... using a hot glue gun I assembled the pieces and it holds the tubes nicely and stable...the station is a great asset for testing the water in both my tanks.. simplifieing the chore greatly.


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## badxgillen

Some of my favorite test stations are simple wooden blocks with shallow holes drilled out as to accommodate the test tubes,then labeled appropriately.At some point I am going to have my friend make me one from semi precious stone and crystal or maybe coral but for now I use the old block and foam. What kind of macro did you go with?


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## Roccus

I went with 4 kinds..Chaetomorpha....Red and green gracilara and ulva.. i also added some shaving brush to the tank as well...


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## Roccus

*update 4/25/14*

I've made a few more changes... I've added my kalkwasser system ( 2 little fishies reactor) and have brought my calcium level to 420...... with the aid of kent marine buffer, I have held/brought my PH to 8.2 and held my dkh @ 10...my SG is at 1.024....all these reading have been the same for 4 days staright... for now..i feel I'm stable...
the macro algae in the refugium are florishing and I feel a big part of the recent loss of detecatable nitrates in the water... removing the filter media probaly assited as well.. i have palced them in a quarentine tank filter to keep them alive in case of an amonia spike..( see below)

I've since removed my bio balls and pre filter for a 100micron sock filter and replaced the cranky, hard to( keep) adjust(ed) marineland 100 for a reef octopus NWB 110 skimmer.. the differance is apples and coconuts... I'm getting undetectable nitrates... 0 amonia and 0 phosphate and nitrites... and 5 times the green goo the marine land mixed up... some times you just need to read a little more before you buy.. the Reef octopus is 3 times the skimmer for almost $50 less....... my hermit crabs and snails have all calimed their territories...I have 2 cleaner clams that dissappeared into the substrate... I've seen their siphons above the sand a few times so I know they are alive..... this week end i plan on adding a few finned critters.. I think the tank can handle it now.....I've learend alot in a short time... and my education is just begining..;-)


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## badxgillen

The reef octopus recirc skimmers are great.


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## Roccus

*New Friends..*

Saturday was rainy... and a cold wind off the ocean( water temp is still 40 degrees here) made me scrap the yard work and think of indoors activities... so after another abreviated water check my wife and I took a 40 minute ride to a place she calls "the bunker"... it is a fish keepers dream..... And the biggest true aquarium/fish supply store in the area.. not much to look at.. but inside.... tanks of fish .. fresh.. salt and in between...it's not Fla. or Cal... but it's the best we have around...I had an Idea of what kind of fish I wanted.... of coarse i wanted to take all of them home but after an hour of drooling.. I walked away from the tangs... eels and other feisty critters and made friends with a pair of Balck Ocellris clown fish and a diamond spot gobie.... the clowns are insepperable.... and seem to profer the top 1/3 of the tank.... I love how they are differant from the normal orange and yellow paterns .. my next friend is a bulldozer with with fins.... he has already made tunnels under all the base rock...making me real happy that I took the time to secure it with a hot glue gun to the egg crate undernieth...he's an interesting little fellow that stirred the tank up quite a bit yesterday... which judging from the clatrity of the tank this morning( which was quite cloudy after he was done at the end of the day) and brightness of the sifted through substrate is a good thing..I can't believe the amnount of gravel theis guy shovels through his gills looking for detris gold..I'm sure some of the multiple stockings of copepods in my refugium have found their way into the tank... he seemed to key on spots where the bottom current swirled and deposisted "litter" on the bottom...


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## badxgillen

Exciting isn't it? Is that Graciliaria or Halymenia.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Exciting isn't it? Is that Graciliaria or Halymenia.


absolutly... totally differant ball game from Fresh water... I have spawning fish in my pond... I've raised many variaties of fresh water fish from eggs to adult.. I use only live plants and enjoy the aquascape i create... but the eco system that we create as marine aquarists is unique in pretty much self sustaining...my water parameters have not changed in two weeks... I like the stabilization that I have...

I have both macros in the tan and in my refugium...

I need to post pictures of my revised filter/refugium/sump...the prototype got me through the initial "experiment" of bulding my own sump/filter/refugium... I think you'll like my revised design.. it looks professional and is extremlly funtional...

The fish have come into thier own and have adapted well to the tank, as near as i can tell.. the goby is a hoot.. he's moved sand and shells making his own aqua scape.. piling it all in one area ontop of the base rock...he recognizes me as the bearer of shrimp and will rise and take it out of my hand while I'm hydrating the freeze dried krill between my fingers...I think he enjoys the copepods that I stocked in the tank before he arrived..

The clowns are strange... after the lights go out ( or during the dusk/dawn periods) they migrate to the top of the tank in the water that eddies along the filter in the corner... they "ball up" and lay on their sides.. staying in one place.. .. the first night they did it, i expected to find them dead in the morning...( i lay awake trying to figure what was wriong because I checked all water parameters before buying them and took 2 hours to aclimate them via drip method)... but as soon as their meal of frozen( thawed) mysis shrimp was served they ate like it was the last supper.. during the day... side by side they patrol the entire tank.... from mid depths to the top... eagerly eating their mysis or brine shrimp offering.. sometime even nipping at the algae wafer left for the hermits and snails.. each night when the first light goes out . they assume the posistion... and each morning they eagerly await thier meal.. is this normal?


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## badxgillen

In time you can give em a nice large mushroom coral,anemone, or some thing similar,they are most likely replicating the sleeping behavior of being in an anemone.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> In time you can give em a nice large mushroom coral,anemone, or some thing similar,they are most likely replicating the sleeping behavior of being in an anemone.


I knew you'd know...my first thought was I some how damaged their swim bladders.. because i picked them out myself I knew they were healthy( at least to look at) .. and the shop keeper was gentle with them when he netted them...they seemed fine in the bags but obviosly were scared with their new surroundings.. not so with the goby.. that little guy claimed his territiry imediatly and began making it home..so much for being a shy fish..

I'm starting to see things grow and move around.. especially during the "twilight" hours I have created with the LED's.. I dont have the experience YET to identify some of it.. but I will in time.... no ( visible) algae growing on anything.... ... I hope that is a good thing./...my asumption is the lack of nuetrieants ( bad) that they feed on.....day light is 12 hours in the display tank.. 12 in the refugium..... on opposite cycles.. I went with an actininc light and daylight 10.000k as you suggested ( these are T-8's.. I mistakenly thought they were T - 5's until I actualy looked at them!)... I will need to upgrade when the time comes for corals... I may make/design my own hood and lights.. i have everything here at work from when i changed over the shop lighting from T-5's to high bay lights.. .. I saved a bunch of the fixtures so I have ballasts and parts.. I'll just need to buy bulbs......my hermit crabs have become very active... they have the bottom of the tank spotless.. I'm amazed at all the decaying plant life they consume...my son inlaw has a 75 gallon reef tank.. he told me he's jealous of my sump becasuse he wants one but has no room for it...he's doing everything with a HOB filter and contakerous protien skimmer ( he's ready to buy reef octopus one after seeing how well/easy mine is to operate)he also mentioned that he was having trouble with water quality( well water) he is trying to convince his wife to let him get a R/O/D/I sysyem like mine...he's using well water... my gur=ess is it's starting problems.. but.. I'm new to salt so I'm keeping my opinions to myself....he's been doing this a long time.. but seems to have more problems than he should...he liked the fact that my hermits are so active.. crawling all over the place..he says he has 50 but almost never sees them... I put a 2" square of marine algae in a clip on the bottom during my evening feed of the fish.. when I get up in the morning.. it's gone... every last spec...evern that clinging to the inside of the clip..
I have a turbo snail that lives around my weir.... he climbs in every few days and spends a day or so in it then climbes back out... I'm surprizesd he can crawl against the flow that is strong enough to keep the surface "slick" [email protected] 350 -400 GPH


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## badxgillen

Sounds like you can build a custom lighting unit that will be sufficient for all sorts of corals,you can even put in two or three switches to controll actinic blues and add a dusk to dawn effect on timers.


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## Roccus

*updates and additions..*

as mentione before.. i have re configured my sump/filter/refugium...with a little experience..trial and error and more research, i decided to re work my sump.. again, I removed the bio balls and pre filter and replaced it with a 100 mic poly sock filter.... it is amazing how much "smegma" this thing removes from the system.. this is rinsed daily when i clean the skimmer cup( still loving the reef octopus)... so the water flows from the tank into the sock... it then enters the first chamber ( 12" X 10" x 10") the skimmer sits on a grate to raise it to it's operating depth of 8"... the water exits the chamber and imediatly hits a baffel that sepperates it fom the refugium, it( the baffel) sits 1" off the bottom, a second baffel sits on the bottom and allows the refugium to maintain 8" of water, some ot the water is directed to the pump chamber as it hits the baffel, the rest slowly circulates the refuggium... the pump chamber ( roughly 8 x 10x 6 deep) has a coarse sponge that serves as a bubble shield and catches any floating debris that may drift in from the refugium.. the water washes over a polishing pad ( rinsed daily).. the chamber houses 2 pumps.. an 1100 GPH that supplies the return water to the tank.. the other, supplies water to the the carbon and phos ban reactors.. the water is returned back to the first chamber for additional cleaning after treatment...redundant ...maybe.. but a month into the life of the tank and after removing the bio balls and changing my "habits" i show no Amoinia...nitrItes or NitrAtes..the water is clear and the tank seems to be thriving... ocasionly small bits of algae show in the filter or on the back of thetank.. the snails devour it almost imediatly .. the refugium has a 4" deep live sand bed as well as live rock rubble and macro algae.. both the tank and refugium have been stocked ( several times) with micro algae and 3 types of pods...I no longer test the water every day.. I've gone to every 3rd day(I will test amonia and trites and trates daily for another week)... if things stay status quo after the new additions settle in.. I'll move to one a week...

the new additions... 2 false percula clown fish... a yelow belly damsel ( that adores the caves) and I decided to take a chance and kick it up a nothch and bought a feather duster.. I added 10 more snails and 10 more hermit crabs and anoter peppermint shrimp..these pictures were taken at feeding time ( forzen myasis shrimp) it's messy but every one likes it.... I feed these and do my filter cleaning 1/2 hour latter...


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## Roccus

*update...*

it's been awhile since I've updated the build so here's what's happening...

at 2 months... I just did my first water change... about 30%.... my nitrates were showing a little color and I was having trouble keeping the calcium level stable...all other parameters were as good as the first day...
a week later everything is at 0...my calcium is steady ( all week) at 400PPM...

I added 2 pajama cardinals a few weeks back... I' loving the filter upgrade I did a while back.... the water remains crystal clear and a quick rinse one a day when I service the skimmer is all it takes...

my latest upgrade is a all glass top... 2 sets of T 5 40 w lights that also harbor a pair of 40 W actinic lights... I used one of my my original lights ( 10.000 K T8) to set as a "high noon" light that turns on at 10 and off at 4..the other is on a timer with the LED's it houses a 15 W actinic "moon light" for night time light... Pictures and a surprise tomorrow...


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## badxgillen

OOH A surprise!? 

Sounds like you are ready for some corals! Drop me a line or post a request in the DBTC threads and we will get you hooked up with some starter corals for free.


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## rsskylight04

What a great project! I wish you the best of luck. Always wanted to try a saltwater setup, but it seems so complicated and sensative. I'm following in hopes that your success might give me the confidence to take the plunge into saltwater!


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## Roccus

*Things i done learnt!*

never believe everything you see on the internet or read ( I knew this already) this makes a good base but we need to find out on our own....I've read so much about salt water tanks my eyes hurt..I've learned a ton on my own...and had a blast doing it...

So... my tank has bullies... my beloved yellow belly damsel is a wicked witch ( or a troll) it bullies any new member....luckily... an offering of Mysis shrimp will take it's mind off being a bully so the new inhabitants can take place in the dark( I shut down the light leaving the one 15 W actinic light on) ... the next day. All is forgiven.. everyones buddies!...blue leg crabs are bullies as well... I've exported the large ones to the refugium...they have a taste for snails...and fan worms,,,

While studying my tank and watching the puffs of sand put up by my clams... I discovered one of the empty snail shells has a tube worm livening in it... he's a little guy that appears in the upper upper part of the shell in the picture( lower section when it is next to the fan worm)... I had to relocate the shell to keep the bulldozer ( my gobie) from burying it's home!

I had to re locate and rearrange parts of my tank... due to the nature of it's inhabitants...( animal and plant)
I bought an aqua cultered clavularia clove polyp from the LFS....I wanted to go to the next level and the price was right... then 2 days latter my son in law shows up with a gift...it seems a good friend of his is moving across country... and broke down his tank... he gave my SIL a bunch of fish and corals.. it seems he didn't have room for a few items ... 2 blue /green Chromis... a red ball sponge .. and a bubble anemone....and asked me if I would take them.... I feel confident I can do it... I'm already feeding my feather dusters and clams with Seachem zoo plankton..Kent marine Microvert and Phyco pure green water..if you put a flash light on the tank after dark you can see the 'pods crawling around... so I know they have been breeding and migrating from the refugium..the fish get a few meals a week meal of shredded shrimp ( in addition to their regular meal os the Mysis shrimp and flakes/ freeze dried brine shrimp).. so an extra chunk to the anemone a few times a week shouldn't be much bother...

The pictures show the difference..no more stark white base rock... every ones the same light brown now..yet the water is so clear you can see the banister 6' away clear through the tank.. I see worm borrows in the sand...I see some tubes being built in the coral... I haven't seen the inhabitants... yet the white tubes grow each night..the tank is becoming more alive each day.... as much as I love my fresh water fish... there is no comparisome..they are truly BORING...


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## Roccus

rsskylight04 said:


> What a great project! I wish you the best of luck. Always wanted to try a saltwater setup, but it seems so complicated and sensative. I'm following in hopes that your success might give me the confidence to take the plunge into saltwater!


I say go for it.... study and read...IMHO...once you get them running, they seem more self sufficient then Fw tanks...the hardest part is keeping yourself from going too fast... I use frequent water tests... and visual keys as my guide....so far... I've not had many failures...probably the biggest one ..and it wasn't really a failure was the trickle filter... my original intention was to use it until I had completed the nitrogen cycle.. then "wean" the tank off of the bio balls and trickle system and filter as naturally as I could... but the use of live rock and live sand flipped the system so fast, I could have probably gone straight to the system I have now that uses a 100 micron sock filter ( that gets rinsed every day when I clean the skimmer cup) a protein skimmer ( the subject of my second "failure") a refugium/sump with macro algae, clams, crabs and copepods and a final chamber that has a coarse sponge filter, medium and fine poly fiber to polish the water ( this is rinsed clear every 2 days and replaced weekly)..some of the. the water in the 3rd chamber is recycled through a pair of reactors via a 500 GPH pump, one reactor houses Phose ban for phosphate control as well as carbon to remove any unwanted nasties... the second houses nitrate remover by Seachem... it seems to work the water is crystal clear...)0 phosphates ...0 nitrates for almost 2 months. The return line from these goes back to the 1st chamber to be re-cleaned.... the rest of the water in the 3rd chamber is returned to the display tank..

I say the second failure was the protein skimmer... after reading a few on line reviews and "gandering" on line I bought a Marineland in sump Protien skimmer... I should have red more reviews... this thing was a nightmare to use and keep working properly... good stuff aint cheap... cheap stuff aint good!... I bought a second skimmer made by reef octopus and haven't touched the setting ( OK minor adjustments) since I installed it.. and twice a day I empty 1/4 of a cup of nasty "snot"....

IMHO.. R/O/D/I water is a must.. that probably is the main difference as far as initial set up... I think it would be very difficult to set up the salt tank properly with out it...


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## badxgillen

What a pleasant surprise, fish and an anemone. Hope he settles in and doesn't roam too much. I am in the process of moving a few from one of my tanks and into another. Looks like your tank is getting seasoned and is gearing towards a reef tank real soon.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> What a pleasant surprise, fish and an anemone. Hope he settles in and doesn't roam too much. I am in the process of moving a few from one of my tanks and into another. Looks like your tank is getting seasoned and is gearing towards a reef tank real soon.


he moved about 3" and wedged itself into the ROCK...I put him in the brightest spot.... yesterday it refused a piece of shrimp...today it took it like it was the last supper..


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## Roccus

*update...*

so... 2 weeks have gone by since my last post.some changes have occurred... red and green algae have grown on the higher elevation's as well as the brown algae on the back of the tank and some of the less bright areas of the tank( the caves are pearly white)...... some of it the shape of little Christmas trees( higher on the live rock). With exception to the shaded areas.... there is no more pearly white base rock..it looks "weathered"but not unsightly every thing is covered with red, green and brown algae... more of a blend with the mature live rock I put in to start...it is growing slowly..so I feel this is a good thng..it looks natural.... Phosphates are still at 0 ..nitrates are around 5ppm...I've got the salinity up to and holding at 1.025 ppm and the calcium at a little over 400 ppm....my bubble tip took a road trip and moved about 6" around the corner.. and stays wide open most of the time.. it enjoys a shrimp dinner every other day.. I had to harvest macro algae.. some went t o the refugium .. the rest I gave to a friend ... I've even observed my sponge feeding ( sending up the tubes)...I've added a few more occupants.... a finger leather coral and a bubble coral.., the tanks finally looking "lived in "instead of sterile... yet water remains CRYSTAL CLEAR... and I've learned red and blue leg crabs are vicious little mothers... most have been exiled to the refugium or given away..I think I have 4 or 5 small ones left( obviously took bad advise on how many to stock). AND if they keep harassing my feather duster...they gone!... and my peppermint shrimp has molted twice...my only issues is keeping snails...and I suspect the hermits are at the root of the problem...I've got 3.... I'd like to have one for each 10 gallons of water ...


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## badxgillen

I have some nice Green sinularia you can have a piece of if you are going softy corals.


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## AndrewM21

Roccus said:


> my only issues is keeping snails...and I suspect the hermits are at the root of the problem...I've got 3.... I'd like to have one for each 10 gallons of water ...


I've had the same problem with my blue legs, despite having dozens of free shells of assorted sizes on the bottom of the aquarium, they continued to kill my snails for their shells as well as each other.


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## badxgillen

You must find proper balance my friend,or just get turbo snails that have the large operculum to protect themselves. You can try and utilize snails only but you need many varieties to accomplish the task.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> You must find proper balance my friend,or just get turbo snails that have the large operculum to protect themselves. You can try and utilize snails only but you need many varieties to accomplish the task.


yup.... finding balance... I know part of the problem was over stocking the hermits ( and snails)...another problem... snails can't thrive if they have little to eat...so with little algae to eat I thought I was doing the right thing and leaving a "snack" on the bottom for every one to share in the form of strips of dried algae sheets.. the only problem.. the hermits made a meal out of the snails.. and I set the dinner table... I'll figure it out....one mistake at a time... at least so far they have been minor...so once again I wait while things settle in and adjust...


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## Roccus

*July start update...*

well, as I learn..I change and adapt...I'll start my saying I've added a few more occupants to my tank... a gorgeous mushroom leather.... A colony of green star polyps...2 more feather dusters....and most recently ( Saturday) a maze coral and I bought (on line) a "mystery" coral that I have not had time to identify just yet... it glows brightly under the actinic lights..it will be in the middle left hand side of the last picture...

OK... so by adding more "guests".. some of them heavy eaters ( bubble coral) and of coarse the fish, my bio load has increased...I was running lights 12 hors a day... max light for 10 hours....needless to say algae got a little crazy.. so I cut back the lights to 8 hours on the Max, plus 1 1/2 hours of pure actinic at the beginning and end of the day...it would appear that the "critters like the change" my softies open and close with the light now not in the late afternoon... that also slowed down the algae but of coarse caused a spike in nitrates ( up to 20ppm)....so I've opted for a 20% water change once a week ( I find it easier than cleaning algae every day or two)....Last week during the heat wave my tank got up to 83 degrees ( F) ( my house is not air conditioned) so as a means of cooling it down, I took a 10' length of 3/4 PVC tubing and coiled it up and placed it in my return section of my sump, I attached it to the supply line from my top off pump and ran the line back to the top off tank to make a closed loop with the coil of cold water in the sump.. the tank was filled with ice/D/I water ( made by freezing plastic coffee cans of DI water in my big freezer down stairs) the DIY chiller worked like a charm in 6 hours the temp. in the display tank was down to the 78 degrees I keep it at....

I did my first major tank cleaning over the weekend ( 4 months) using a turkey baster I flushed the base rock of debris, vacuumed the accessible sand.. brushed off any unwanted hair algae, and trimmed some of the longer beards and did a 50% water change( over the 2 day period) and changed the back drop ( that I ruined during my cleaning) and removed the last of the macro algae from the display tank.. I've also relocated some of my inhabitants...I buried the fan worms in the substrate.... I moved my sponge to a dark cave, as it was bleaching out.. I wasn't sure what the problem was but with in a week of being "ion the dark" it is once again a vibrant red... my anemone has lodged itself in the side of a "mountain" and seems very happy there... the flow from the power heads seem to suit it better.. as does the less bright lights... two of my clowns have begun bringing it food ..on 2 occasions I have see different ones bring Mysis shrimp over to it and spit it onto the tentacles... my finger leather just went through another shed.. it now opens broader than ever and all branches are sending polyps out...my clove polyps have begun to colonize the surrounding rock with miniatures of themselves...so It would appear that life is thriving in my tank and I enjoy it every minute I'm in the house


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## badxgillen

Do you have a closer picture of the coral in question? From where I sit it looks like a favia or possibly favites. You can tell from the shared walls of the polyps. At a second glance it might be achalice of sorts. Does it have a solid rock form or plating?


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Do you have a closer picture of the coral in question? From where I sit it looks like a favia or possibly favites. You can tell from the shared walls of the polyps. At a second glance it might be achalice of sorts. Does it have a solid rock form or plating?


I'll try and take a better picture..it's a new camera and I haven't quite figured it out yet.. any way...it's encrusted on a flat piece of rock... each segment is almost star shaped..


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## Roccus

So it's been over a month since I've posted on this thread.. time for an update..

I've adjusted things and learned what I can and cannot do... I found that keeping a sponge is difficult when you have a diamond sot gobie...they eject too much sand and it clogs the pores.. I rehomed it...

I've since added a few mushrooms, identified my mystery coral as a war coral ( Favia?)... my toad stool leather has sprung 2 daughter colonies.. my green star polyps have spread as have my clove polyps...my Duncan ( bought in early July) has also grown 2 more stalks. And it is one of my favorite creatures... my maze coral has sprouted a new polyp... 
I had to deal with a slight bout of cyno and hair algae....something I expected with a new tank... by limiting my light to 8 hours a day... my fish feeding to 1 time a day and controlling the amount, by this meaning , feeding only as much as they excitedly eat... once they become picky,.. dinner is over... couple this with 20
% weekly water change ( AND vacumimg of the "dead zones that collect detritus) and the cyno has disappeared and the hair algae limited to one area that is being grazed heavily by my lawn mower blenny.. also , my anemone has grown... by about 2" and it's tentacles have lengthened and darkened.. making white tips stand out.. I almost left out the pearl bubble.. it has gotten huge.. I also bought a "damaged" green bubble for short money and am trying to revive it... the process is slow but each day I see it adding more "bubbles" and sending stingers out at meal time..
this picture is over a week old but it is the most recent one I have...


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## badxgillen

Now that is what I call progress. When the corals are happy and growing it makes the hobby much more rewarding than just feeding the fish.Soon you will have to take some of your extra corals to your Local Fish Store,maybe trade em for some new species
Did you ever find a local reefing club? Do you have a good selection at the closest store or do you have to order your corals? I am lucky and have some decent selection in adjacent cities but I have ordered a few things and traded quite a bit myself.


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## Roccus

I have found a LFS that is only 20 minutes away... they get new stock every week and have a 15% "preferred" customer discount on Tuesdays.. they deal only with salt water fish and corals.. their shop is as neat as a pin.. their tanks spotless... they will special order anything ( legal) that you want if they can find it and quarantine it for you as well...their prices seem to match anything in the net and I like seeing what I'm buying...hard to beat their service..

I haven't found a reef club yet... but haven't tried either... this winter when the snows 4' deep outside my windows, I'll have more time to dedicate to the search..


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## Roccus

*New discoveries...*

first, I have a bristle worm...it's about 4" long and resides in the rock with the mushrooms... some tell me they are bad.. other things I read and see say most are harmless and even beneficial... I've noticed it for a few weeks now and watched it closely... it seems only interested in food that has fallen in the crevices that the hermits haven't found yet... opinions?( I know the bristles can be painful and toxic to humans..)

Last night, I arrived home late .. several hours after the lights had been out...I like looking in the tank with a flash light to see what is about... I saw what appears to be some type of serpent starfish.. it is about the size of a quarter and has thin long legs the body ( and legs) are black the legs have white bands.. I tried to get a picture but it didn't come out.. it appears to be very shy and disappeared when I hit it too much with the light...the closest picture I can find is a Fancy arm banded serpent star..my guess is it came in on some of the coral or was in the live rock and I just now discovered it... again any thoughts?


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## badxgillen

Bristle worms in small amounts can act as part of a clean up crew but there are some corals they can irritate when they come in contact. I just pull out the larger ones as where there is one there are sure to be more.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Bristle worms in small amounts can act as part of a clean up crew but there are some corals they can irritate when they come in contact. I just pull out the larger ones as where there is one there are sure to be more.


I'll keep that in mind.. it's lightning fast and goes back in it's hole if you get near it..
thanks for the reply..


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## badxgillen

The hitchhiker may be a brittle star,they come in a couple different colors\bands and are definitely beneficiary. When you have a large number of them and you feed the tank frozen foods you will see their little arms stretching out for a tasty morsel to come past.


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## Roccus

OK.. 6 month review... tanks getting more mature.. I've had minor bouts of cyno and some hair algae... but have come to terms with it.. .. I've learned that if I see cyno.. time to change the GFO.. even if it has not been a month...I've added a few LPS and a few mushroom colonies... unfortunately.. I've got to tear it all down.. I have a leak in the RF corner.. Marineland has warrantied the tank and paid 80% of the cost of tank and stand ( that has a delaminating top) so soon I will be swapping out the tank , I've got tubs.. garbage cans and spare heaters ready for the task.. I'm not looking foreward to it, but I need to do it before it gets cold ( my wife keeps the house at 65)..here are some recent pictures.. I expect the new Improved tank will benefit from a few mistakes I made as well.. for one thing I'll paint the rear glass this time ..no more plastic/paper back grounds..I'll leave more room behind the base rock for water flow and cleaning.. also around the ends.


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## badxgillen

Man that is really filled out in only 6 months,in half a year you have your very own reef. Sucks to hear about the leak in the tank though. If it makes you feel any better maybe 2 months ago I had my main reef tank blow out,now that is inconvenient. But like you said you just gotta do it and get it over with. Wish I could help you with the move,maybe you could ask one of the employees at the Local Fish store for a hand.


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## Old Salty

Very nicely done!

A few tips I've lived through...

The cyno pops up more than likely because of the water. About the only way I found to prevent the cyno is to make sure your water is RO/DI with a 0.00 TDS. Never had it even creep in after I installed my filter. It's well worth the cost.

Also, if you would like to go with LPS/SPS and/or clams or plates, make sure you leave space up top and on the floor. My clam and plates did wonderful in the bottom of a 125 with T5 lights.

I would advise against sponges. They become more of a problem than they are worth.

The only 'filtration' I ever used was a humongous skimmer.

Bristle worms are not an issue, they are necessary for keeping the tank clean. The largest I had when I broke down my 125 was 7 1/4" long and 3/8" wide. And DO NOT TOUCH!!! Little boogers hurt! They can cause problems with the desirable "worm" inhabitants, ie Christmas tree worms, feather dusters, etc.

I also only fed fish every 3 days and target fed corals once a week. Enjoy!


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Man that is really filled out in only 6 months,in half a year you have your very own reef. Sucks to hear about the leak in the tank though. If it makes you feel any better maybe 2 months ago I had my main reef tank blow out,now that is inconvenient. But like you said you just gotta do it and get it over with. Wish I could help you with the move,maybe you could ask one of the employees at the Local Fish store for a hand.


yes it has....I did not include my sump in this as well I should have... it has taken on a life of it's own...lots of macro growing to the point where I can now harvest it.. the last week or so a lot of coralline algae ..both green and red have started growing much more profusely on the glass and the power heads..my parameters have stayed the same.. with the only difference a raise in salinity to 1.025( deliberate) from 1.024 using IO reef crystals I have been able to hold the calcium @ 420...PH and dkh have remained the same from day 1... the green hair has grown Just enough for the lawn mower blenny to keep short.. it also gives a place for my mandarin to hunt pods..I have one rock that seems to be a green hair algae factory..my guess is it is leaching the nitrates and phosphates.. I haven't seen any cyano in the tank for a few weeks.. even at it's worst it was just a mere spot on the sand in a slow moving section and a little on one rock in the corner..I adjusted the power heads a little and it seems to help keep things moving.. I started vacuuming the gravel there and the problem disappeared .. my nitrates were the lowest this week when( before) I did the water change that they have been in awhile..under 5ppm, barely detectable... I'm thinking there is some DE nitrification taking place now in the rock and sand bed.. as well as what is being consumed in my sump/refugium
seeing I have to break it down.. I decided I can upgrade from a 65 gallon to 75 with only a minimal loss in space... both are 48" long ( 50" with the stand) one is 14.25 wide the other 18"... the stands are 16" and 20" the 75 is not as deep by a few inches.. and will fit nicely for my short 5' frame to work on it..my foyer will look better for it:lol:

I plan on stripping out the silicone on the 65 and resealing it... I'm going to use it for my fresh water tank as my angel has outgrown the 20 gallon bow front... my wife asked what I was going to do with the 20 gallon bow front.... I told her make a single species reef Nano reef tank!.. she could only roll her eyes!


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## Roccus

Old Salty said:


> Very nicely done!
> 
> A few tips I've lived through...
> 
> The cyno pops up more than likely because of the water. About the only way I found to prevent the cyno is to make sure your water is RO/DI with a 0.00 TDS. Never had it even creep in after I installed my filter. It's well worth the cost.
> 
> Also, if you would like to go with LPS/SPS and/or clams or plates, make sure you leave space up top and on the floor. My clam and plates did wonderful in the bottom of a 125 with T5 lights.
> 
> I would advise against sponges. They become more of a problem than they are worth.
> 
> The only 'filtration' I ever used was a humongous skimmer.
> 
> Bristle worms are not an issue, they are necessary for keeping the tank clean. The largest I had when I broke down my 125 was 7 1/4" long and 3/8" wide. And DO NOT TOUCH!!! Little boogers hurt! They can cause problems with the desirable "worm" inhabitants, ie Christmas tree worms, feather dusters, etc.
> 
> I also only fed fish every 3 days and target fed corals once a week. Enjoy!


THANKS FOR THE REPLY... glad to have another opinion on this project...

I've always used R/O D/I water in all my tanks ( a blend of it with tap water for fresh to control my GH..KH and PH) and have a 100GPD system set up in my shop and keep 50 gallons at all time for use in my tanks... I believe the problem ( it was minor) was related to the "newness" of the tank and detritus accumulations and with a little effort on my part has disappeared...

I hear ya on the sponge.. I had a "rescue" one that was given to me.. it did well but I rehomed it because I had to blast It daily with a turkey baster to keep it clean ( my diamond spot gobie loved to shower it with silt)...I replaced it with mushrooms.. the mushrooms are more attractive and less work...and take up the same niche

I'm running a Reef octopus 150 in my sump.IMHO More than adequate for my 65 ( or soon to be 75) gallon tank and 20 gallon sump.. and does yeoman's work at removing "gunk".. but I feel more filtration is better.. I run a 200 micron sock filter( cleaned daily) and 2 reactors.. one with Phose ban the other with carbon ... I have a son in law that likes the "all natural" approach unfortunately his tank looks like a swamp...he seems prone to die offs as well from more sensitive critters.. a problem I have yet to encounter...... I think larger tanks can be run "naturally" but smaller ones are not as stable with smaller ( de-nitrifying) sand beds and less live rock IMHO need a little help.. because I have leathers and LPS and SPS in the same tank.. I feel the carbon is needed to combat any chemical warfare that might take place... My planted fresh water tanks pretty much run on their own with bio wheel filters and bi-monthly 20% water changes. Rarely do I have to clean algae. Maybe once every 4 months or so.. I do feel the more natural you can run them the less work they are...which means more time to enjoy..

I don't have any clams or plates ( yet) my 65 is tight with the amount of rock I have but the 75..HMMMMM...thanks for the advise.. I'm still trying too figure how much I can get away with my lighting, I know it is minimal for some corals..I'm not ready to dump a bunch of money into lighting... again.. yet...

I've got a few bristle worms ( I was told when I saw the first one..if there is one..surely there are more)... most are large.. they haven't bothered anything ( except freak out my wife) and have added to the many things I discovered while watching my tank.. which, quite frankly is better than half the garbage they have on TV these days.. I've got one that hangs out in the "shroom" pile near my feather duster.. I see it go down there when I feed the duster.. it'll root around the sand but has yet to disturb the feather duster.. the only thing that has bothered it is ( was ) the now exiled ( to my sump) large hermit crabs..

yes. thanks for the heads up on the bristles.. I've been warned by others about how painful the bristles can be.... I've already been stung by my bubble coral. Now I wear gloves when I go into the tank...

I feed fish once a day.. corals every other.. down from 2 times a day( fish) every day corals.. If I waited any longer I'd be afraid they'd break the glass begging for a meal.. but I'll take it into consideration should I feel my nitrates or phosphates are uncontrollable.. there are plenty of pods and other critters in there.. but those are for my mandarin and diamond spot gobie... I target feed the fish with a turkey baster and watch closely on how they eat.. soon as the slow down or start getting picky.. feeding OVER!


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## tankman12

For your nitrates and phosphates look into an algae scrubber. I have one on my 110 reef, not lightly stocked, and i dont feed lightly. My nitrates are 0 thanks to this thing. My sps are loving it now ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Man that is really filled out in only 6 months,in half a year you have your very own reef. Sucks to hear about the leak in the tank though. If it makes you feel any better maybe 2 months ago I had my main reef tank blow out,now that is inconvenient. But like you said you just gotta do it and get it over with. Wish I could help you with the move,maybe you could ask one of the employees at the Local Fish store for a hand.


That must have been a big job restoring a main reef tank...

A few questions for you..it has been recommended to me that I should scrap my entire sand bed and put in a new one.. the reason cited to me was disturbing it could release toxins... IMHO, this in my case is bad advise, my reasoning is , first, my tank is only 6 months old... also I have a diamond spot gobie that turns that sand bed like a bull dozer.. to the point that I can see the grating I installed on the bottom of the tank under all the rock...also I have spent a lot of time stocking both my tank and refugium with copepods and arthropods.. to the point where I have been able to sustain a pair of Mandarin dragonet's for over 4 months.. they are both pot bellied and healthy so I know they are eating good ( they never stop hunting the rocks and sand bed).. I also have 6 cherry stone "cleaner" clams living in the substrate... I do see them from time to time when they get unearthed , so I know they are alive and well... I also fear that completely changing the substrate is inviting a diatom bloom and possible ammonia spike... your opinion is highly valued..

also... my fish.. I'm conflicted on the best way to keep them while I swap( hopefully I can do it in about 2-3 hours ) one school of thought is to place them individualy in jumbo zip lock bags and float them in the tubs of water.. thus allowing me to not have to catch them a second time.. ...my fear is that they then may "forget" each other and fight...or do I put them in a 3o gallon tub ( with the tank water I remove) and re-catch them latter.. I want to stress them as little as possible... again.. I value your opinion... you've done this a time or two.;-)


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## Old Salty

If you have a DSB(deep sand bed more than 3"). You can get away with re-using the sand. You will get a spike though. It's inevitable no matter how old the sand is, even with sand stirrers.

When moving rock from one to the other, keep them submerged as much as possible. Any air exposure starts the dying process. Use soaked paper towels to help. Also the fish should be OK for probably 6 hours in a tub. Keep it dark and dose with some stress coat with some water movement. They will all, more than likely, huddle together without any 'territory' in there and no lights. They will all be the new one and not fight.

Other tips... 

Large rubbermaid totes are our friend in this hobby! I actually used 3 bulkheaded together as a sump for a year.

You're lights are fine for clams and plates. Calcium needs to be max without affecting hardness and ph.

The lager the tank, the more water flow you need. On my 125, the main pump was 2400 gph dialed back to about 2000 with a tee fitting and run into each end of the display tank. I also had 2 - 1200 powerheads in tank. All plumbing also went through the wall. All sumps, pumps, skimmers, fuges, etc... were in the 'fish room'. That was a nice-to-have!

Let me know if you have more questions. If I don't know the answer, I won't make one up!


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## badxgillen

When doing the change I would save only the top layers of your sand, in the bottom of one of the totes that hold much of your live rock, and rinse out the rest especially the substrate that was under the rocks and areas you were not able to gravel vac. These old spots when moved will cause all sorts of trouble and the small amount of non washed substrate will inoculate all of the rewashed aragonite.


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## badxgillen

Drain some clean water into a couple of totes or buckets and use those for the fish and inverts. I try and keep any potential harm causing fish in separate buckets as things can happen during a move,tangs,rabbit fish,puffers,and triggers I would keep separate or in a large tote but others can generally be housed together with minimum cover.The bagging each fish to minimize stress is not too bad an idea but I would just run an air pump in the buckets\tote then net them again,you should be fine.

On another note you are going to have a slight spike and mini cycle,it comes with the territory of moving a tank. You can minimize this by changing your carbon and keeping an eye on your parameters.


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## Roccus

Thanks guy's... not much difference from moving a fresh water tank..just a lot more to do...I've got 6 rubber maid tubs used exclusively for aquarium use.. ...plus a 50 gallon "reserve" drum of water I keep already made up for changes...the tank is in a brick lined foyer so I have lots of room to set up and wont have to walk far or worry about the mess... I have the new tank and stand set up on PVC rollers in an adjacent room so I can just roll it in place the way I do a 10000K milling machine at work .. I've prepped the tank and stand and they are ready to go...
I plan to start by siphoning off the water and adding from the make up drum ( the salt not D/I water) to my sump and pump it back up so I can have some in the tubs to start with...then once there is enough in the tubs transfer the rock and coral I can begin... the fish are trained to the turkey baster so I'm hoping to lure them into a clear container rather than chase them with a net....the gobie will be the challenge...


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Drain some clean water into a couple of totes or buckets and use those for the fish and inverts. I try and keep any potential harm causing fish in separate buckets as things can happen during a move,tangs,rabbit fish,puffers,and triggers I would keep separate or in a large tote but others can generally be housed together with minimum cover.The bagging each fish to minimize stress is not too bad an idea but I would just run an air pump in the buckets\tote then net them again,you should be fine.
> 
> On another note you are going to have a slight spike and mini cycle,it comes with the territory of moving a tank. You can minimize this by changing your carbon and keeping an eye on your parameters.


luckily, most of my fish are of the peaceful variety... the biggest bully is the yellow tail damsel...the cromis ,clowns and pajama cardinals are peaceful.. the diamond spot gobie and lawn mower blenny are more interested in gravel shifting and algae munching than other fish...

I figured there would be a little spike... I changed the carbon and phose ban last night in preparation.. I'll have plenty of mixed water on hand to do small changes daily if needed until things stabilize again...


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## Roccus

Some notes on the new tank.... for one it is 75 gallon.. it is not as deep as the 60.. but is 4" wider... it came with one 3' set of LED with day/night mode ..if I read their specs right they only produce 6500 K... so I bought a 4' t-5 strip ( actinic and 10,000K) for the back portion of the tank... I am going to use my existing 2 2' T5 set ups over the middle of the tank and the LED as the moon/night setting in the front..it flips up easily for access to the doors.. this moves me away from the pair of single bulb ( 10,000K) t-8's I had as a second set on the original tank.... also, the tank sets into the frame on the stand... it was all open ( I could have put a 20 gallon sump in there easily.. but because my plumbing goes thorough the wall and down stairs to the sump, I added a set of adjustable shelves and a peg board back that I can keep my tools and food on.. the peg board makes a nice back drop to attach my electrical.. I'm contemplating adding 1 more power head ( I have 2... plus the return line)....I wired a 3 gang plug outlet in there for the power heads and heater so I can turn them off via a switch for service and water changes with just a flick of the switch... a red indicator light in the switch acts as an alarm to remind me they are off...


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## badxgillen

I love the attention to detail you put into your setups. I am just getting to combining my circ pumps to one or two outlets making for some nice feeding modes and alternate current. My main tank has had this feature but not my others.


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## Roccus

*Thy deed be done...*

Saturday morning I turned the heat up to 80 in the house ( it hadn't been turned on yet this season the house was 56) .. I arranged a half dozen buckets and tubs and my wife and I began the project... I started by draining a portion ( and refilling with fresh mix)of the water so I could minimize chemistry and heat loss... once I figured I had enough water I began removing my smaller corals keeping them submerged in a Tupperware bowl( I knew all those clear bowls my wife hoards would come in handy some day) and placed them in a rectangle container... as I got each tier lower, I drained more water .. until only fish and hermit crabs remained...those I was able to coax into a clear container with my hand minimally stressing them.. I placed them all together in a tub with some of the base rock and covered them to keep them calm.. I washed the gravel in the remaining tank water and scooped it out with a plastic dust pan and drained the dirty water back through the handle.. the last 5 gallons of water was vacuumed out with a shop vac. and discarded... the old tank went out the front door ( as did it's stand). the new one ( 75 gallon) rolled in place on the PVC pipe rollers.. the I added 2 new bags of live sand to the existing sand and put in enough to cover the grate leaving the remainder to be spread after the base rock was put in place.. I reversed the removal procedure adding water then corals and lastly the fish .. the water cleared before lights out and to my amazement the leathers hadn't gone into shed.. they opened fully and it looks like business as usual... I may have to get my pearl bubble a little higher in the reef.. I'll see in a few days...it took us 7 hours from start until we toasted with a glass of Cab....I'm loving the new lighting and the painted back... the fish love the fact that now they can swim around the entire reef... I've noticed a much better laminar flow and I'm sure that will benefit all involved... I added 2K copepods to the tank last night to make up for any that was lost in the gravel washing... my Mandarin was hunting in the "moon light" this ,morning when I went to work... loosing her from the move is my greatest fear.. I've had her for 5 months and she is trained to eat live brine shrimp as well.. hopefully my 'fuge can provide enough to quickly repopulate the tank..


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## badxgillen

WOW! It looks even better than before. Nice job man.
I must say that reef moving is never easy,it was nice of your wife to lend you a hand.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> WOW! It looks even better than before. Nice job man.
> I must say that reef moving is never easy,it was nice of your wife to lend you a hand.


Thanks.. I can only imagine what it must be like to move a really large , more mature ree.. I was dreading doing it, but am so happy with the end product... I think she just wanted me out of her way...in all seriousness, she has grown to love that tank... she never was one to say a lot about the freshies but she watches this one for hours... of all the inhabitants.. her favorite "critter" is the peppermint shrimp... she asked to feed it last night ( the little varmint will eat from the turkey baster)..that's a first...


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## tankman12

Ya it looks good. The reason your yellow tail is aggressive is because it isnt the normal type. Also with those chromis, one will end up dead. That is just what they do. Also 3 clowns isnt really recommended. 

But besides that, it looks good 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badxgillen

UGH, This guy...
If your wife likes the peppermint then you should get a pair of cleaner shrimp. Eventually they will all learn to eat out of your hand and provide an entertaining cleaner service for your fish. 

It is really nice to have a wife that can accept the hobby ,or better yet appreciate it, as it can make all the difference. A reef tank is an enjoyment best shared and what better person to share it with.

PS I still have an excess of zoas I can send you some of to help fill in some rock work if you would like.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> UGH, This guy...
> If your wife likes the peppermint then you should get a pair of cleaner shrimp. Eventually they will all learn to eat out of your hand and provide an entertaining cleaner service for your fish.
> 
> It is really nice to have a wife that can accept the hobby ,or better yet appreciate it, as it can make all the difference. A reef tank is an enjoyment best shared and what better person to share it with.
> 
> PS I still have an excess of zoas I can send you some of to help fill in some rock work if you would like.


That sounds like a good idea about the shrimp.. the peppermint will come out as soon as it smells food and I let her feed it from the turkey baster....

It's nice having room behind the reef now.. more room for the fish to swim and corals to grow!

I removed all the silicone from the seams and resealed the 60... we cleaned out the "work out" room as both of us are of an age that we no longer feel the need to be "buff" and gave it to the neighbors kids.. we are going to put the 60 in that room...after I repair the stand .. I'll cycle the tank and move the contents of the 20 gallon bow front ( fresh water tank) that is in the living room up there... she expressed an interest in making the bow front a single species nano tank for "her" because she is now semi-retired and feels that it might be a fun hobby for her...

I'll PM you latter about the zoa's... thanks!


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## Roccus

*October update...*

So it's been awhile since I've updated... First I'll start with a lesson learned ( so others do NOT make the same mistake)
When I did the swap.. I didn't bother cleaning the algae off of the rock... that few minutes of "laziness" has cost me hours of aggrivation.. that I am now only free of.. because the placement of the rook was different... a lot of that GHA no longer received enough light... and when it died.. I had a huge phosphate spike as it released the bound up nutrients and became detritus itself... I had daily battles with cyano that only last week has diminished to near 0 ...getting rid of it entailed a lot of scrubbing and vacuuming and replacing my GFO weekly... I get a few spots in the lower flow spots, but the red slimy layers on the rock and sand has ended... coralline algae has begun to grow on the rock but has not yet made an appearance on the tank glass...my Nitrates are the lowest they have ever been ..under 10..my sump algae looks like a jungle... GHA is almost non existent in the DT( more on that latter)... most of my corals have done well, I lost a brain coral.. I think the water got too cold in the holding tank and I shocked it.. my pearl bubble is not inflating as big as it had in the past... I'm still playing with flow patterns and positioning, so that may be the problem..meanwhile my hammer coral and Duncan's as well as the mushrooms ... Zoa's and leathers have exhibited growth beyond anything that they had done prior to the swap... I've added a long tentacle plate coral... but other than that what has filled in has done it on their own... I'm liking the progress but have a long way to go to fill my vision... all my fish have their own "caves" now and I added a foxface Lo to my fish stable... I know it is a marginally safe reef fish ( and for my sized tank) but I got it to graze the GHA that forms in some areas , which it seems to do well... I hang a algae sheet in there each morning and feed it blanched spinach twice a week... I'm planning on planting macro algae in the back of the tank as a feeder area for the algae eaters and copepods...it also likes the enriched brine shrimp I feed "everyone" else.. I've had it 3 weeks and it has yet to nip a pollup...if it outgrows the tank it's my "in" to a bigger tank.. can we say master plan!... I've repaired the old 65 and it is in the fish room upstairs 4 weeks into the fishless cycle ( it's almost done).. once I move the fish from my 20 gallon bow front ( fresh water) upstairs to the 65.. I'm going to set up the bow front as a single species nano tank...did I mention my wife thinks I have lost it!


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## badxgillen

A good looking tank is well worth the efforts. That is too bad you had such a bad mini cycle when you moved your tank. But on another note that Fungia plate looks pretty nice and the sinularia and sarco have gotten huge. Before long they may start to shade the adjacent corals so make sure they are low light neighbors. Can't tell there was any issues now,tank looks great.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> A good looking tank is well worth the efforts. That is too bad you had such a bad mini cycle when you moved your tank. But on another note that Fungia plate looks pretty nice and the sinularia and sarco have gotten huge. Before long they may start to shade the adjacent corals so make sure they are low light neighbors. Can't tell there was any issues now,tank looks great.


Thank you....The Fungia moves around quite a bit.. sometimes starting to climb the glass and covering the poor fan worm...I cant believer the size of it's mouth...

the shading has defiantly begun... I may be able to add some rock behind each one of them and move them back.. when the Sinularia fully opens it's massive.... my lawn mover blenny loves perching in the "crotch" of the tree.. the pajama cardinals take up residence behind it... 

Question for ya... what do you think about limiting the power heads at night.. leaving maybe just the one on the surface on... the current changes direction when both are on and swirls around the filter box...

My duncans started with two heads,,,last count there were 9...My anemone started out the size of a golf ball ..it's now almost the size of a base ball when it opens up....


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## badxgillen

Yeah the fungia can wander into corals and get into fights if you let it,they will also take pretty large food items but I just feed mysis and brine. I am sure it would be fine to have a pump or two pumps go out at night. I have a tank that I do just the very same thing but for different reasons,my power bar is full so one of my circulation pumps is plugged in with my lights so it goes out when the lights do.

It is crazy when you compare certain pictures with the current livestock. I have many corals that need their own buckets but you can be sure I bought them from the pet store in a small bag. Before you know it you will be bringing frags back to your Local Pet Store for credits.


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## Roccus

*Assume nothing...*

OK... since my last post.. I've got a lesson in Alkalinity .. something I took for granted......and totally misunderstood it's role in the marine aquarium...

My Coralline algae has begun to grow:-D.... most of my corals had been growing... then in what seemed like overnight...my bubble looked "sick" the trumpet corals were not showing their polyps... my brain corals were not expanding their polyps either... my plate coral just didn't seem be as active and expanding as much as it had been... I started with my regular tests of my Nitrate, phosphate and PH... everything looked good... as I continued down the line of tests everything ( that I had tests for) was normal.. even my calcium was at 420ppm.. the last test was alkalinity.. and it shocked me.. 6.2 dkh..it had always been around 8.0 and I was doing nothing different... I assumed ( incorrectly) that the few corals I had would do fine with out dosing and my weekly 20% water changes and reef crystals would give them everything they needed... I hit the books and did some fast study..surprisingly my PH was in line at 8.2 ...I ordered a Sailfert magnesium test kit ( and magnesium)... I got my Kalkwasser reactor working ... I had bought one and was "afraid" to use it when I first set up the tank... I started daily dosing ( and testing) with Seachem reef builder.. it took 5 days but my dkh is now 9.2..( and I am no longer dosing daily) PH is at 8.4.. I'm awaiting my magnesium test kit (it should be here today).. but in 2 days time my bubble was blowing itself back up to it old dimensions.. and was bright pearly white instead of grey.. my trumpets were full and plump and my plate coral is once again almost scary looking.. and my rocks are getting covered with coralline algae.... when I first set up the tank I tested everything daily... then weekly...but the parameters were always the same. so I went to monthly... lesson learned. Mature (ing) tanks use "stuff'.. I'll do weekly testes from now on with the things I know get used.. luckily I knew enough about my live stock to realize something was wrong before it went too far south to fix it... because of my fresh water experience, I knew the fiorst place to start was with the water "quality"...it looks like my tank is in it's mature stage, it hasn't grown any hair algae since my last post.. a small amount ( quickly consumed by my snails and blenny) of film algae develops on my glass.. but patches of green and red coralline are showing on all the glass and even in the overflow box and on the power heads..

I also rebuilt my sump.. ( revision 4) I made individual acrylic chambers this time instead of trying to get acrylic dividers to adhere to the plastic.. I added floats and snap switches instead of slide switches for my high/low level and ATO...I'm absolutely loving this.. I love the challenge and reward... I moved the fish from my fresh water 20 gallon bow front to their "new digs' in the 65 gallon upstairs and they couldn't be happier... I started my 20 gallon bow front Nano yesterday.. the filter and sand is in.. live rock tonight...


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## badxgillen

With your Alk and Calc being used up I am sure your Mag will test slightly low so you may need to dose. I like Kent Tech M or a mix of Magnesium Chloride and Magnesium Sulfate. You want your Mag to be about 3 time that of your Calc. If it is down and you raise it slowly you will see some more vibrant purples and a faster growth of the coraline.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> With your Alk and Calc being used up I am sure your Mag will test slightly low so you may need to dose. I like Kent Tech M or a mix of Magnesium Chloride and Magnesium Sulfate. You want your Mag to be about 3 time that of your Calc. If it is down and you raise it slowly you will see some more vibrant purples and a faster growth of the coraline.



That's where my research led me.. thus why I ordered the test and mag powder... I like Kent marine products, I've had outstanding luck with them.. thanks for the tip....I for got to mention, I added 15 ml ( per gallon) of pure white vinegar to my kalk. solution..


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## badxgillen

Many people try to keep a magnesium level around 1200+ but I like to keep mine high around 1,500 then I let it drop off for a hundred or so before I does again...I know not too scientific but it has worked for me for some time,just keep it steady.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Many people try to keep a magnesium level around 1200+ but I like to keep mine high around 1,500 then I let it drop off for a hundred or so before I does again...I know not too scientific but it has worked for me for some time,just keep it steady.


If works for you..it will work for me too...


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## badxgillen

I must also state I keep my callcium a little high amd keep my alk as steady as I can. 460 to 480 and alk at about 8.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> I must also state I keep my callcium a little high amd keep my alk as steady as I can. 460 to 480 and alk at about 8.


 my calcium is sitting at 460 right now... my ph is still at 8.3 and my dkh has been at around 9 or just slightly lower for the last 3 days... I'm still waiting on the mag test kit ( supposedly delivered tomorrow now).. but I like the stability I'm seeing now...the last 2 nights I've seen long sweepers on my brain coral... I have never seen them since I have owned it... I
'll take it as a good sign


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## Roccus

*updated picture for November*

What a difference a month makes...
the tank just looks so different... I'm almost embarrassed at what I though looked good in the beginning.. which I guess is what makes this thread so cool... I can't wait to compare a year from now..

I ran all my parameters last night... My Salinity is @ 1.025.... my Phosphate is 0 or un readable...my Nitrates < 10....my dka is @ 9...my PH is @ 8.2... the big surprise...is my mag was right around 1500 I measured it twice and have never dosed.... my calcium is @ 420.. water temp is maintained @ 78-79..

I've taken on a new challenge.. I was at the LFS to buy my rock for the nano tank... he had a beautiful carnation coral... he said every one was afraid to buy it because they are notoriously difficult to keep I had wanted one, so I actually had done some study about them.. he has had it for a month..IMHO, it looked great.. I kind of felt it was fate... he sold it to me for $20 ( original price was $45).... I already feed newly hatched brine shrimp daily for my mandarin, so I'll spot feed the coral as well... my tank is loaded with "pods" so I know that will supply food, and I'll step up my zoo and phyto plankton feeding ( done in the sump every other day) to a daily regime in the morning before I leave for work.. I think this should supply the coral with the constant supply of food that it needs...I guess my tank is officially dominated with softies now.. gone is all the hair algae I had on everything a month ago.. only a tiny patch remains on a button polyp colony... I had to scrape a fair amount of coralline algae off of the front and side glass and I still didn't get it ALL... a problem I have been actually looking foreword to... my lawn mower blenny has taken up a new past time... keeping my fighting conchs shells free of algae... he hangs with them constantly ( one is going in the nano tank once it can support life).. My Mandarin rises to the turkey baster to take frozen brine shrimp rich out of the tube.. previously I had to train him to a spot... he has learned that the turkey baster means food and rises up to suck the brine shrimp right out of it...if only my dog was that smart!

I'm including pictures of my latest ( and hopefully last) sump up grade... the low level switch protects the pump from burn out and the upper tank from overflow should the siphon break on the overflow.... the sump can handle the total volume of the tank and the ATO tank so I'm assured the sump cannot overflow as well...


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## badxgillen

That carnation is HUGE! As long as you are consistent in your feedings you should be good. There are a number of microvert foods out there and combining them with a occasional live food flurry sounds like a good plan. What type of phyto\zooplankton are you using? Is the sump feeding\dosing automatic? I hjave yet to go to a consistent micro invert feeding schedule as I always seem to be just one step away from having algae growth,I suppose I should be using more macro now that I think about it.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> That carnation is HUGE! As long as you are consistent in your feedings you should be good. There are a number of microvert foods out there and combining them with a occasional live food flurry sounds like a good plan. What type of phyto\zooplankton are you using? Is the sump feeding\dosing automatic? I hjave yet to go to a consistent micro invert feeding schedule as I always seem to be just one step away from having algae growth,I suppose I should be using more macro now that I think about it.


 I use Seachem phyto plankton and seachem zooplankton... I have been spot feeding my corals and fan worms with it.. I also add 2 capfuls of Phycopure green water twice a week to the 'fuge... I manualy dose the fuge in the morning before work, I figure by adding it to the fuge water it slowly gets added to the tank all day...

That carnation opened up almost immediately after putting it in my tank... it closes for a few minutes every hour or so but them opens right back up...believe it or not.. it gets even bigger when the lights go out..


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## Roccus

*december update*

all my parameters have stabilized... my dkh stays around 9 on the plus side.... my Calcium took a jolt of liquid for a week to keep it at 420.. and the mag. is @ 1400 give or take( I think I miss read the first test I had to dose twice to get it there).. I haven't dosed anything except the Kalk from my ATO in two weeks and all is still the same... the last tiny patch of hair algae turned brown and died......I'm seeing a lot of new growth on my brain corals... and damaged areas seem to be coming back and filling in with living tissue each day...my bubble is it's old over inflated self... my candy cane coral polyps hang over the skeleton.. something it never did.. I've got beautiful purple coralline algae growing on all the rock and green and red coralline algae growing on the back of the glass especially in the shaded areas next to the heater... my mushroom colonies are spreading and I placed a piece of rock rubble from the sump next to them and now transferred them to the sea horse tank.. I did the same with a colony of Zoa's...just like having a garden... I moved the carnation coral under a rock ledge and it now stays inflated almost all the time, but does not get as large. but in return the polyps stay extended all the time... I noticed that it has sprouted a few more polyps some in areas that were damaged when I bought it... the only down thing I have to report is my fungia... it started to decline when the water parameters went astray and it has continued to get worse... I moved it to a lower flow area and it seems to be holding on....I'm thinking my lighting is just not quite bright enough for it... I may bring it to the top of the tank to see if it starts to come back... 

I added a flame angel to the tank... and it and the fox face have acted as peace officers and de-bullied the bully... they kick the yellow tailed damsels tail every chance they get... my diamond spot gobie has free rein of the tank again and it's the yellow tail seeking shelter in the rocks.. turn about is fair play!


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## badxgillen

Doesn't it feel good to have a tank that s in check and thriving. As you mentioned similar to gardening,there is a sense of accomplishment to it. I hear you on the fungia, all the corals that are large fleshy single polyps are very unforgiving when there is infection or stings involved. Glad the flame angel id behaving himself, once in a while you will get one that likes corals of certain flavors. They are stunning fish for sure.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Doesn't it feel good to have a tank that s in check and thriving. As you mentioned similar to gardening,there is a sense of accomplishment to it. I hear you on the fungia, all the corals that are large fleshy single polyps are very unforgiving when there is infection or stings involved. Glad the flame angel id behaving himself, once in a while you will get one that likes corals of certain flavors. They are stunning fish for sure.


I was Leary of the flame angel, but the tank needed that splash of color... the big personality helped as well.... so far so good... it seems content to pick the rocks for whatever... eat frozen brine and Mysis and occasionally shares a snack of romaine with his foxface buddy...I like the tank the way it looks... with things maturing and growing it is filling out nicely.. I'm finding mushrooms "growing out of nowhere" from between rocks.. the coralline on that once white rock looks so nice.... I know if I wanted to grow different LPS and SPS.. I'd defiantly have to change my lighting.. but I like what I've grown there.. it fits my personality... I'm building a top for the tank for the lights , I'm including a fan with thermostat control to aid in cooling, once installed I'll "loose" the glass cover... I've also ordered a controller for the heater... still a lot to learn and a long way to go.. but I'm enjoying the "ride"... My Fungia continues to decline....while all else prospers... ..


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## badxgillen

This is one hobby that I find myself frequently saying " You Win Some, You Lose Some" you can't win em all no matter how good you are or how much money you have. It seems to be the nature of sensitive organisms such as the ones we are keeping, some things are just unforgiving.


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## Roccus

some pictures from last night.... my singularia just came out of shed... between that and the toad stool they will be growing out of the tank soon..

I'm slowly starting to let myself not stress over a mushroom that doesn't open or if my anemone acts weird for a day or two.... in the beginning I would run down and run a half dozen water tests thinking something was wrong.... I've learned that sometimes these thing being living sea creatures ...just like people ..have "bad" days... I'm leaning that a mushroom may be closed ( shriveled) because one of the hermits just took a " walk about" all over it or maybe one of my fish was digging for a snack in between my clove polyps... I find I'm doing less work, less worrying and more enjoying as the tank becomes more stable...


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## badxgillen

Look at those corals! and that flame angel is gorgeous, I miss mine when I see them jetting through a reef tank like they own it. Once the holiday season is over if you want to try out some zoanthid morphs let me know and I can send a couple types your way for fun. I think they would complement some of the rocks and coral well.


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## Roccus

badxgillen said:


> Look at those corals! and that flame angel is gorgeous, I miss mine when I see them jetting through a reef tank like they own it. Once the holiday season is over if you want to try out some zoanthid morphs let me know and I can send a couple types your way for fun. I think they would complement some of the rocks and coral well.


sounds like a plan..


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