# Which water to use?



## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

So I plan on starting a brand new saltwater tank. I wanted to know, can I use tap water (removing all of the chlorine, and other bad stuff first) then adding the salt, or should I use store bought distilled water and then add the salt? Which is better? :roll:


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## candicelee (Apr 9, 2009)

Well, I'm new to the whole aquarium thing, but I read that you have to use reverse osmosis water for salt water tanks.


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

I have no idea what that means.


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## Bartman (Mar 17, 2009)

It is a filtration system that uses membranes with filters small enough that only let water molecules through, basically leaving you with pure H2O. They are usually called RO/DI (reverse osmosis, deionized) systems. You can usually find them at home depot or water supply stores, even plumbing shops. It is a definite requirement though, do not use tap water. I did and found out the hard way that I had immediate hair algae growth. I managed to make that go away though after using RO to fill up the tank and purchasing some other products. 

Everyone with experience will tell you to start with RO and I found out that hard way, long story lol.

PS: I am no expert but have been researching a lot... Hope that helps!


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

agree with the research tidbit, that's the key to any aquarium sucess 

Yes RO water is the way to go for sure

I get mine by the gallon from my next door neighbors, Petland 8)
You can either purchase your own RO unit (an expensive investment, but worthwhile in a larger setup) or buy by the gallon from a local fish shop. Ask around, typically vendors will be glad to accommodate you, or point you in the right direction :-D


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## Bartman (Mar 17, 2009)

RO units in my area run for about 350 and up. Not to bad considering its just another part of the filtration system.


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

True, that's not bad, but I'd say that it's only worthwhile to buy a RO unit and maintain it if you have to work with large quantities of water. Otherwise it's cheaper to just buy it from either another hobbyist who has a unit, or a shop IMHO


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## Bartman (Mar 17, 2009)

True I guess I am biased as I am a plumber and already had a system installed in my home  Although it was disconnected at the time of filling the tank and I got screwed there! Hope it'll be alright...


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

350 may not seem like alot to you all, but I am a college student on a slim budget. i cant drop that kind of money. Besides, my LFS arent that great. So, how about another route to get water into a tank oh and i have decided to use a 40 gallon that i am about to go get.


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## Bartman (Mar 17, 2009)

Hey, I will throw something at you because I was in your footsteps only weeks ago. Whatever your budget is, multiply it by three.

I was thinking I could get away with 4, 5 hundred bucks. I have spent well over a grand.

Here is what I purchased, and from what i've read, for a marine tank, is the minimum to have water parameters at their best, almost.

Protein skimmer - Cost me 180 for a Tunze 9002 rated up to 50 gallons and to tell you the truth, I am going to buy another larger one as I am looking to upgrade my tank, do yourself a favour, plan and THEN buy. Now i'm gonna have to get another skimmer, well soon enough.

Tank - I already had one but thats not a very big expense if you find a local classified
Light - If you want coral, you're looking at around 5 hundred, for a proper T5 set up.
Powerheads - I spent a little more than necessary maybe but those cost me 40 each and I have 4 (two would have done but I got a good deal on the additional two so I took it)
Live rock - I paid 6.50 lb for 50 lbs. (like 300ish?)
Sand - 20 lbs bag was like 30 bucks
Test kits - 80 bucks for master marine and salt water kits for all tests (and I still don't have a magnesium test kit)
Thermometer - Not much, I had one, but can be like 5 to 20 for a good one
Heater - 150 watt was 40 bucks
Salt - another like 40 or 50 bucks for a largeish pale
Hydrometer - 10, but people will suggest a refractometer (I may get one soon)
Phosban Reactor - I had phosphate issues with the original tap water accident, but I would have got this anyway. Cost me 60 with a pump

Other random accessories - $50 +

and thats with no fish...

Plan ahead, way ahead, and patience is key..I have learned this over a months time, I was completely new at this

And I still want more and more..lighting is my next thing but that is because I want to keep coral, and its one big expense!! And a tough one to boot.

Good luck my friend.


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

Im not looking at using any coral anytime soon. Im starting simple, some live rock, sme live sand, and some fish, thats all


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

corals or no corals, RO/DI water for pre-mixing your saltwater (atleast 24 hours in advance) and for your fresh water top offs.


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

Agree, RO is still what you want

Ask around your local fish or pet shops, they can typically sell you some, or point to towards where you can get some :-D


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

Ok, I am only looking into doing a 40 gallon set up, nothing fancy, this is a starter tank, Im not going to be going all crazy about this tank. once i can manage this tank, in a few years il upgrade and go all crazy. I found a powerhead for 30, 20 lb sand for 30, 7.99 per lb for live rock, havnt priced salt yet, 30 for a skimmer, and it looks like i found a tank with all accesories on a website that i can buy for 200, after that all i need is some fish. i have everything pretty much figured out. so all i need is to figure out the water. this is a new tank, so i dont need a quarentine, i am going to get the tank and the rock first, and cylcle the tank with just water and rock to further cure it, once thats done, i will e adding in the sand, then cycle that for a while, then finally after its all set up i will put in the fish. SO all i need is to take care of the water issue.


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

Oh yea and a test kit for saltwater for like 20 bucks, ebay and amazon are a great thing.;


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## Bartman (Mar 17, 2009)

I would spend a little more on a skimmer, they are quite important.


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

yea don't cheap it out on the skimmer, it is the backbone of any and all saltwater filtration. It should be among one of your priciest pieces of equipment, but I'd recommend getting one rated AT LEAST double the gallonage of your aquarium. The more skimmer power you can get, the better health your system will have; and I can nearly guarantee that. Almost everyone in the marine aquarium world will agree that your Protein Skimmer is the most important piece of filtration. Often, its actually cheered on if your protein skimmer is rated for a gallonage that is overkill for the size of your system! (Ive seen a guy that had a 180 gallon, and his skimmers were rated for over 1,000 gallons a piece for 2 skimmers:shock

Anyway I agree that you should proably spend more on a skimmer, but if you think that you are getting a quality product for that price, more power to ya!


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

It was originally priced at 60. its on sale


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

whats the gallon rating on it and what company/model is it?


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

actually I just bought a 75 gallon tank that comes with a new aqua-tech 30-60 system


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

Psychmajor said:


> Ok, I am only looking into doing a 40 gallon set up, nothing fancy, this is a starter tank, Im not going to be going all crazy about this tank. once i can manage this tank, in a few years il upgrade and go all crazy. I found a powerhead for 30, 20 lb sand for 30, 7.99 per lb for live rock, havnt priced salt yet, 30 for a skimmer, and it looks like i found a tank with all accesories on a website that i can buy for 200, after that all i need is some fish. i have everything pretty much figured out. so all i need is to figure out the water. this is a new tank, so i dont need a quarentine, i am going to get the tank and the rock first, and cylcle the tank with just water and rock to further cure it, once thats done, i will e adding in the sand, then cycle that for a while, then finally after its all set up i will put in the fish. SO all i need is to take care of the water issue.


 
it is for sure possible to have a setup on the cheaper scale but your not going to want to skimp on the skimmer. i strongly suggest reading reviews of brands and models online. some are complete garbage as others are golden. the purpose of a QT is to lower chances of introducing anything into your main tank, adding fish from the start would be introducing any possible disease which defeats the purpose for future additions. 

i strongly suggest finding a local reefing club in your area. these are great to pick up used equipment cheaper, meet people and learn new things.


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

I dont have any reefing clubs in my area, my area is in nowheresville.so im sol on that. I know a qt is good, but as its a new tank, theres nothing to quarantine, if the fish are sick, then the fish i buy them with will already be infected, or at least already exposed. i know that if meds are needed to treat it (like if they had ich) then i would have to transfer the firsh to a qt so that the meds dont hurt the LS and LR. if i had an established tank, then id qt all new stuff. i do that already with m freshwater tank. 
I also just want to point out for everyone though, because we were discussing the use of water, and not using tap, that my lfs uses tap water on all their fish, including saltwater, and there fish all seem just fine.


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## Bartman (Mar 17, 2009)

I am sure that they condition the water with chemicals, and if not, from what i've read, they won't last long in a tank like that but they arent worried as the fish shouldnt be there that long anyways. Plus, the first LFS I went to gave me the worst advice on earth so I would take what they say/do with a grain of salt...

The guy sold me some pouch of who knows what and told me to run it through a canister filter for 3 weeks for the tank to cycle...The first thing I was told on this site was canister filters are terrible for marine tanks, and every document I have read concurs...


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

none the less, don't skimp on your skimmer, it is the backbone of all Marine water filtration.

You still, IMHO, MUST use RO water, it is as pure as water gets and if you want to have a stable, controlled environment for your tank to thrive in, RO is the only way


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Psychmajor said:


> Ok, I am only looking into doing a 40 gallon set up, nothing fancy, this is a starter tank, Im not going to be going all crazy about this tank. once i can manage this tank, in a few years il upgrade and go all crazy. I found a powerhead for 30, 20 lb sand for 30, 7.99 per lb for live rock, havnt priced salt yet, 30 for a skimmer, and it looks like i found a tank with all accesories on a website that i can buy for 200, after that all i need is some fish. i have everything pretty much figured out. so all i need is to figure out the water. this is a new tank, so i dont need a quarentine, i am going to get the tank and the rock first, and cylcle the tank with just water and rock to further cure it, once thats done, i will e adding in the sand, then cycle that for a while, then finally after its all set up i will put in the fish. SO all i need is to take care of the water issue.


I think my 40G, with the added money I spent on my 10G on everything that I brought over, has costed me....

$1600? 

I am 14 and have bought everything myself except for the tank, lights, sand, and powerheads because they were Christmas Presents. Also the Rock and Skimmer because I had gift cards. Since you are in college, and on a budget, will be VERY difficult to afford.

And let me say this. Don't use tap until you know what is in it. This means phosphates, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, pH level, Chlorine, magnesium, hardness, just to name a few parameters.

Why not just get water from the LFS? I do it and it costs me $2.50 every 3 weeks.


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

My lfs doesnt sell it, and the closest store that does, it two hours away. Besides, I already know wahts in my tap water, I had it tested when i moved in, and it works great in my freshwater tank. not to mention, with the proper chemcials, all that crap can be removed. and Although I plan on spending money to do this, I have no need to break the bank. I shop around, i look, i research befor ei buy anything, just like im doing with this forum. I have already bought the 75 gallon tank, with stand, and filter, and heater, and lights, and deco stuff, for 200. I may need to buy a new filter, which is like 60, I need two powerheads, so, 80ish, give or take, and the live sand, which willl depend on which store i go to, and then the lve rock, which im starting out with about 75 bucks worth, then once my tax refun comes back, 150 more. i dont know where yu spend 1600, but thats alot of money. the fish will be added in as time goes by, check by check, its a process.


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

I don't see where you don't get 1600...

On 10G:
Lights: $100
25lbs of rock: $150
Sand: $20
Clownfish: $60
YWG: $20
Corals: AT LEAST $350.
Total= $700.

Subtract $20 from not using the sand, 50 from not using all my rock, $30 from a lost Clown, and $50 from corals not brought over. So $550 already invested in the 40G.

Tank: $100
Lights, Sand, Powerheads, Stand: $440
Skimmer: $170
50lbs of Rock: $220
A Clownfish: $30
12 Turbo Snails, 5 Hermits: $35
40G of water to start off: $40

Oh, $1510. But there is still plenty of corals and fish in my future.

What are the levels in your tap water? Saying "they are fine" means nothing.


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

See im not b uying corals, so thats 350 400 right thre, the tank i bought, comes with lights, al of them, so i need those, Im not gona get clownfish right away, damsels, which are alot cheaper, I spent 200 on th tank and stand, and lights, and filter...


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

I dont need the ultimate skimmer right off the bat. corals are not a requirement in every tank. I am also not buying all that rock at once. I will buy about 25 lbs to start with, then add more as time goes by, until i ave enough for the size of the tank. You dont need snails and hermits immediatly. I can buy a 45 lb of sand for 40 bucks, and 25 lbs of rock for 40, which isnt even the poundage i plan on buying.Two power heads, 80 to 100. this is a starter tank, not a ultra fantastic one. I dont need to spend sooo much money on setting this up. Once im used to it, then i will upgrade stuff.


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

You do not want to get rock at different intervals. They need to be added all at the same time unless you like cloudy tanks with bad stuff floating everywhere and tanks recycling. 

You need a skimmer right after the cycle.

And one damsel in a tank means that is the only fish you will have, or other fish that are dead or very injured. They are the devil's fish.

You still didn't tell us the parameters in your tap water...


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

Actually ive been told you can put rock in at different interverals, as long as you cure it all first and let all the dead crap come off. and I know all about damsels, and i havent made a decision on the type of fish i want yet, so not written in stone. as for the levels in my water, Im not sure on the exact numbers cuz i haven ttested them in a few months, which im going ot be doing at some point soon before th tank is going, so onc ei know, ill post them.


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

look, here's my advice; and I ran a fish shop for several years, have always been a marine enthusiast my entire life, and current have a system that has a total size of about 650 gallons:

1. Don't take to skimpy route in the beginning; it'll end up costing you WAY more in the end to fix that initial issue

2. NEVER use tap water; always go RO. It is the the only thing IMHO that you can use to have any marine success

3. Skimmers are vital, and you should have enough skimming power to have your skimmers rated for at least double, preferably triple, your system size. More is better when it comes to skimming.

4. Don't rush things. Take your time, cycle your tank properly, and research, research, and more research before you do anything. Like #1 said, if you rush things or cheap things out in the beginning, they will come back to bite you, and I'm telling you this from personal experience :lol:

5. Don't introduce live rock at different intervials, even if wherever you purchase your rock from says it been cycled, it will react differently to your system than theirs, so stuff will die off, and you will then be recycling and recycling your tank again and again, and that includes the potentially lethal amonia, nitrite, and nitrate spikes.

6. Sorry Cody, but I love Damsels, especially Chromis in my tanks, they add a lot of movement to a reef


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

Im well aware skimmers are vital, as are the powerheads for the live rock. I am doing research, thus why i joined this forum. Im rushing nothing, im also well aware this is a big undertaking. Im on this forum like everyday, and im doing research, like everyday. I even bought a book. the only thing, not everything little thing has to be top of the line, and ill probably end up adding most of the live rock together anyway since im going to buy some, then when i get my tax refund back in a few weeks, get the rest of the rock. there wont be fish in it until after the second set of rock has been added. I dont plan on skimping on anything, however, i simply am not spending massive money on the #1 product, when the #2 work just as well, even if it doesnt last quite as long, this is a starter tank for me, something for me to get used to doing. once I know what the hell im doing, then i wil upgrade everything to the best there is. and fyi, m lfs doesnt sell ro water. lso, what does ywg mean?


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

Psychmajor said:


> Im well aware skimmers are vital, as are the powerheads for the live rock. I am doing research, thus why i joined this forum. Im rushing nothing, im also well aware this is a big undertaking. Im on this forum like everyday, and im doing research, like everyday. I even bought a book. the only thing, not everything little thing has to be top of the line, and ill probably end up adding most of the live rock together anyway since im going to buy some, then when i get my tax refund back in a few weeks, get the rest of the rock. there wont be fish in it until after the second set of rock has been added. I dont plan on skimping on anything, however, i simply am not spending massive money on the #1 product, when the #2 work just as well, even if it doesnt last quite as long, this is a starter tank for me, something for me to get used to doing. once I know what the hell im doing, then i wil upgrade everything to the best there is. and fyi, m lfs doesnt sell ro water. lso, what does ywg mean?


 
Look, it will save you a lot of money total if you buy the good stuff now, rather than buying something that's not a good quality product now, and then "upgrading" and buying a different one later. I would wait to start up your tank till you have the money to get everything you need, it's not good to start and stop, so IMHO I'd wait till you get that refund, then get started. In the meantime you could be saving money, and doing more research. If you lfs doesnt sell RO water, ask them where then you can get some. If there is no way for you to buy any, then online you need to buy a RO filter unit. RO is the only way to go in a marine tank if you dont want to run into massive problems later on down the road.


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## Psychmajor (Apr 12, 2009)

Im switching my tanks, the 75 galon is going to be a freshwater, and my 30gallon i ave now (currently freshwater) is going to become the saltwater tank. I heard somthing about carbon filters being bad for saltwater tanks, is this true?


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

As in FW, they arn't *needed*. I've only seen carbon used in QT tanks, and rarely.


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## klosxe (Jul 5, 2008)

Cody said:


> As in FW, they arn't *needed*. I've only seen carbon used in QT tanks, and rarely.


From past experience, and from many years of trial and error, Ive discovered for my system anyway, that some carbon, but less carbon than what is recommended, works best IMHO. Too much carbon removes lots of bad stuff, but it also removes some good stuff too...

I run my tanks with 1/2 carbon than what the recommended amount for my tank size is, and it keeps the water clean, and also doesn't remove some minerals ect. that I need to run a healthy reef tank.
Long story short, If you want a FOWLR tank, then I think you could leave out the carbon with no foul. However, if you intend on running a reef tank, then I'd recommend putting 1/2 of what the recommended amount is because of the higher water quality needs of a reef tank.


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## princesuhaib (Apr 1, 2009)

I have spent aprox 2,000 and this is what i got

Equipment:

* 75 gallon glass tank
* 4-5 inch live sand bed
* 1 Hydor Koralia K4
* 1 Hydor Koalia K3
* ehopps wet/dry kit 75g
* 300 w heater Set 78 F
* 80lbs live rock
* 48" 260 watt Power Compac lighting (4-65 watt) 21" Straight Pin bulbs with led lunar lights.

Live Stock:

* 8 Turbo Snails
* 5-7 Nerite, Cerith, Trocchus Snails
* 5-8 Blue legged hermit crabs
* 1 Rock Anemone
* 1 Green Chromis
* 1 Yellow Tang

Still needing a skimmer, 100lbs live rock, better lighting and an ro/di unit which should be aprox another $1000 if im lucky

and here is a pic of my tank

Trust these guys, they will not lead you in the wrong direction


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