# Ridiculous algae bloom, tank cleaning, fishless cycle



## Rdb2013 (Sep 1, 2012)

So i just returned after 3 weeks, i had already started my cycle, i tested the water tonight and got 0,0, and nitrates were off the chart.

So that's all dandy, but the tank is planted, and i returned to some INSANE algae... i mean ridiculous.. all over the glass, all in the filter, all on the plants and substrate, rocks, driftwood... everything.. thick thick stuff.

So i proceeded to scrub and scrub the glass, run my hands through the plants to get algae off, etc etc i continued this then did a 60% water change and refilled my tank.

I took the filter out, and cleaned the media in the old tank water, except the intake tube, i HAD to hot water that in the sink.

Reinstalled, algae is still all over the place and in the water, so i did the same thing again.

i still have some algae in the water, a little on the glass, and some on the plants...

and i plan on getting fish this weekend.

I placed another piece of raw fish in the tank to keep bacteria happy until this weekend, but i am concerned... I know that most the bacteria lives in the media and substrate, rocks, etc... but i changed a lot of water today and i'm going to have to probably do another huge water change, maybe 2, to get all this algae out.. am i going to kill off this good bacteria i just spent 6 weeks establishing? Or are the water changes going to be fine?

any tips for cleaning this algae up... scrubbing and vacuuming doesnt seem very effective so far...


----------



## Fredsterbit (Aug 20, 2012)

What kind of algae is it? What does it look like?


----------



## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Your good bacteria is growing on the surfaces of gravel, filter media, tank walls, ornaments etc. There are 2 types of bacteria, one grows from Ammonia, the 2nd develops from the NI. The AM and NI are in your water, the bacteria live on the hard surfaces. Doing a water change dilutes the levels of AM, NI and NA depending on the levels of these items in your tap water/new water source. You CAN harm your Bacteria if you add water that has chlorine. So doing a water change with De-chlor water will not hurt your good bacteria. However you have been scrubbing, anything you have scrubbed under the tap will no longer have good bacteria on it. 
I don't think adding another dead fish will help other than spike your AM again. Remember there are 2 diff types of bacteria. If your NA are high, just do a water change to dilute it down. Retest your numbers, get that dead fish matter out of there and if you numbers are still good, please quote your actual numbers, you are ready to add 2-3 live fish and something to eat the algae. I would stay away from Chinese Algae eaters or reg pond snails. 
What size is your tank? What filter? 
Most importantly, are your lights on a timer? Did you leave them on for the whole 3 weeks?


----------



## Rdb2013 (Sep 1, 2012)

My nitratea were 80-100. 

The algae is hairy and green.

I didn't tap water anything but the filter intake tube on my fluval c3.

Tank is a 20 gallon tall with a t5HO light.
It's on a timer 6 hours a day and was while I was gone.

I put the raw fish in there to keep the ammonia bacteria feeding while I wait to get fish this weekend. Which in turn feeds NI bacteria and NA bacteria.. As long as water changes won't ruin my cycle ill cleanup the rest of the algae tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

T5 light (and the tube is probably HO?) is very bright. I am assuming there are no live plants. So the light allowed algae to grow, using the nutrients. The very high nitrates reading is due to nutrients in the water.

The algae is most likely brush or beard algae, but a photo would help us identify it. Algae itself is not a bad thing if you don't have live plants. It performs much the same role, of using nutrients in the presence of light and producing oxygen.

Byron.


----------



## Rdb2013 (Sep 1, 2012)

Indeed it's a t5 HO. I have about 6 wisteria a banana plant a java fern and about 10 patches of micro sword narrow leaf.

I also am picking up 2 crypts and 5 dwarf sag and 4 frog bit plants thirsday to finish off my planing. 

I was gone fr 3 weeks and came home to insane algae, I used flourish tabs before I left and have Eco complete substrate. I'm thinking the light and nutrients in the tank from fishless cycling combined with 3 week no water change allowed algae to grow...

I know algae isn't bad. It is hair like thin thin hair like and also little fuzzy green balls of it too.. And one patch on a
Rock was very sticky and dark dark green almost
Blue.. But only a small spot... 

I just can't stand algae I like clear clear water with clear
Glass.. So I'm assuming once
I do more
Water changes and the filter keeps circulating it will clear up... 

It's on my
Plant leaves which is annoying... Because it
Doesn't seem to want to come off

I am picking up 8 jelly shrimp tomorrow... Maybe they will munch on it a little bit...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

This is a bit different, now we know there are live plants.

The light is quite bright, but if it is balanced with sufficient nutrients it should work. You may have to reduce the duration, even down from just six hours. But first, there may be a shortage of CO2. No fish means no waste entering the substrate to form organics which the bacteria [different] break down, producing nutrients and especially CO2 for the plants. And nitrogen (ammonia/ammonium] is going to be minimal with no fish.

Getting some floating plants as you mentioned will help to shade the aquarium. And regular water changes, about half the tank once a week. I realize you were away, but this shows what happens when these are ignored. And there is no doubt that significant water changes does help to keep algae at bay.

You are going to need a comprehensive lioquid fertilizer though. Eco-complete willnot be sufficient for the plants; some nutrients are on;ly taken up via the leaves from the water, plus these substrates do not "fertilize" very much, in my experience with Flourite which is much the same. I would suggest Flourish Comprehensive Supplement twice a week (to balance that light) once you have fish present.

Byron.


----------



## j dizzel (Dec 24, 2011)

This may be an over my head type of question but what is up with the raw fish? I have heard of introducing live gold fish to help cycle the tank is this the same principle?


----------



## Rdb2013 (Sep 1, 2012)

Roger, i have read flourish may be harmful to shrimp however, due to copper... i guess thats a gamble i'll have to take. I have a huge bottle of flourish, ill start dosing it... 

I had DIY co2, but that batch stopped while i was away, and i honestly prefer not using c02, but i enjoyed the results when i used it.. so i may make a batch tomorrow.

Do i need to use fert tablets on top of water fertilizer?

i'll take the lighting down to 5 hours a day.


I was planning on getting some otto's.... so maybe they will help, i love those little guys.

I looked it up and it appears to be either fuzz algae or green dust algae... it's gotten 200 times better since i came home, theres only a few spots on the glass left... and the micro sword collects the free floating algae, so i keep vacuuming over those when it collects it up.

the plants are a PITA to get the algae off the leaves... that's the only issue


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

j dizzel said:


> This may be an over my head type of question but what is up with the raw fish? I have heard of introducing live gold fish to help cycle the tank is this the same principle?


Raw shrimp,raw fish,fish food,all produce ammonia as they decay, which feed's the bacteria that we wish to develop.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Roger, i have read flourish may be harmful to shrimp however, due to copper... i guess thats a gamble i'll have to take. I have a huge bottle of flourish, ill start dosing it...


Flourish Comp will not harm any fish, invertebrates or plants if dosed once or twice weekly at the amount on the label; I do this. The plants will assimilate the metals like copper, both as nutrients and then even if more is present they can take them up as toxins. Another advantage of live plants. 



> I had DIY co2, but that batch stopped while i was away, and i honestly prefer not using c02, but i enjoyed the results when i used it.. so i may make a batch tomorrow.


This was part of the algae issue, a big part. You really need to give us all the data when asking questions.;-)

I hinted at this previously, but now can confirm it as probable. The CO2 was suddenly lacking, the plants can't use all that light--remember, plants will only photosynthesize if everything is availabe, and once something is no longer sufficient (the "limiting factor" to growth) they stop--so algae had the advantage. Now, I'm not suggesting CO2 be added, again with fish this will naturally be present. Up to you.



> Do i need to use fert tablets on top of water fertilizer?


No. The stem plants will be fine on liquid, and the substrate-rooted plants have the Eco-complete plus the liquid. Although i am skeptical of the actual nutritional value in these substrates, there should be something.



> I was planning on getting some otto's.... so maybe they will help, i love those little guys.


They will not touch brush or beard algae, or the others mentioned below. The issue is to get the balance restored so this doesn't come back.



> I looked it up and it appears to be either fuzz algae or green dust algae... it's gotten 200 times better since i came home, theres only a few spots on the glass left... and the micro sword collects the free floating algae, so i keep vacuuming over those when it collects it up.
> 
> the plants are a PITA to get the algae off the leaves... that's the only issue


Any chance of a photo? Green dust algae generally just covers the glass as a fillm, photo below.


----------



## Rdb2013 (Sep 1, 2012)

ill try to get a picture... but honestly there isnt hardly any left... and my jelly shrimp have been munching on absolutely everything in my aquarium today. 

i hooked co2 back up.. it's not something i wanted to do... but i heard it helped growth and survivability of plants.. so i added it.. i prefer NOT to use it.. ill stop using it tomorrow... because i have 8 shrimp in there and will have a couple fish as of this weekend.


----------



## Rdb2013 (Sep 1, 2012)

Algae pics!

remember this is post 50,000 water changes and some cleaning.. so there's little left, but i'm still interested..

also byron i am confused by your statement, you said algae over took the plants because co2 was missing... but then went on to state you wouldnt recommend co2.

will 2 fish and some shrimp provide enough co2 for plants but not enough for algae?


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Algae pics!
> remember this is post 50,000 water changes and some cleaning.. so there's little left, but i'm still interested.


Photos didn't make it. If you have them in a file on your PC as "jpg" files, when you do a post, click "Manage Attachments" down in the "Additional Options" section and then click "Browse" in the pop-up; double click the photo on your PC and it should load.



> also byron i am confused by your statement, you said algae over took the plants because co2 was missing... but then went on to state you wouldnt recommend co2.


Two different issues. While you were away the plants were getting adequate (actually more than adequate) light, but insufficient nutrients (partly lack of water change which replenishes the hard minerals, plus the CO2 which was previously being added was stopped). Law of minimum says plants can't photosynthesize, so algae had the advantage.

Now you need to restore a balance. It can be high-tech with CO2 diffusion plus more nutrient fertilization to balance that plus the light; or it can be more low-tech or natural, with CO2 occurring naturally and less nutrient supplementation. Light may have to be adjusted, but you have to achieve a balance. If this is done, then algae will not have the advantage and should not increase. In natural tanks, or any other for that matter, light should always be the limiting factor. If any nutrient is, esp a macro, then the light past the point when the balance is no longer present will allow algae to increase. Algae is not a "plant" as such, and thus it manages differently than plants with respect to this balance.



> will 2 fish and some shrimp provide enough co2 for plants but not enough for algae?


You allow the waste to build up in the substrate; those of us with natural planted tanks rarely (if ever) touch the substrate. That is your main source of CO2. I have a spare 20g tank that i keep running for new fish QT, it is planted with cuttings and runner swords from the other tanks. No fish usually, some snails. I add Flourish twice weekly same as all the other tanks. The plants are not as fast growing in this tank, but they remain alive for months. Now and then I have dug into the substrate during the weekly water change just for interest, and it is amazing how much organics are built up, even without fish or fish food entering the tank.

Byron.


----------



## Rdb2013 (Sep 1, 2012)

the pictures are showing up for me thats weird..

however at this stage you cant hardly see any algae.. there is some hair algae i found... but now its just fuzz on the micro swords up front and a little on the wisteria and some on the rocks... but the shrimp are going crazy i came home from work and turned my light on and was amazed at how much the shrimp have eaten... they are cleaning everything.

i understand now about what you meant, i took out the CO2 and i'm going to dose flourish twice a week and light 6-8 hours a day, 8 hours a day was working before i left, so i dont see why it wouldnt now. i think i made a mistake and set it for 10 a day while i was gone.

thanks for the advice


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Rdb2013 said:


> the pictures are showing up for me thats weird..
> 
> however at this stage you cant hardly see any algae.. there is some hair algae i found... but now its just fuzz on the micro swords up front and a little on the wisteria and some on the rocks... but the shrimp are going crazy i came home from work and turned my light on and was amazed at how much the shrimp have eaten... they are cleaning everything.
> 
> ...


You're welcome. But on the duration, monitor it carefully. If memory serves me correctly, you were adding CO2 previously, so it may have balanced with 8 hours. Without CO2, you may have to reduce this. I would suggest that if after maybe 3 weeks there is no increase in algae, increase the light if you would prefer a longer photoperiod. But if algae begins to increase, cut it back. You can go back to six hours with no issues for plants.


----------



## Rdb2013 (Sep 1, 2012)

I went about 3 weeks without co2, then added it 4 days before i left! and no algae was present prior to that. Some of the algae still in the tank looks brown, so i think thats just normal for a new tank, the nasty stuff is basically gone now.

I enjoy coming home and seeing my aquarium lit up and everything inside moving around, so i will just set my timer to come on at odd hours.. so i can see the tank.. and make plants happy and algae not an issue. after work hours so from like 5-11, or 4-12 midnight... will this cause an issue for fish or for plants being at odd hours like that... i assume not since this is an artificial environment after all


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Rdb2013 said:


> I went about 3 weeks without co2, then added it 4 days before i left! and no algae was present prior to that. Some of the algae still in the tank looks brown, so i think thats just normal for a new tank, the nasty stuff is basically gone now.
> 
> I enjoy coming home and seeing my aquarium lit up and everything inside moving around, so i will just set my timer to come on at odd hours.. so i can see the tank.. and make plants happy and algae not an issue. after work hours so from like 5-11, or 4-12 midnight... will this cause an issue for fish or for plants being at odd hours like that... i assume not since this is an artificial environment after all


As long as the light period is fairly consistent and representative of a day/night cycle. The "day" can be any time you are home to view the tank, but there must be a period of total darkness. The "day" should also be continuous for the benefit of plants and fish. You can read more on the effect of light on fish here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/lighting-how-affects-freshwater-fish-81982/

Things should be fine re the algae with 8 hours light.


----------

