# Cycling with Feeder Guppies



## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Anyone know if it's possible to cycle with feeder guppies? Or are they too sensitive?


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

i would take a guess that they'd be to sensitive.. whats wrong with a 2 or 3 feeder goldfish? or doing a fishless cycle?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I wanted to get the cycle going on a 10g to start breeding some feeder guppies in for my future Jack Dempsey. I don't want to feed him goldfish because of the health issues associated with them (i.e. higher in fat content, plus the serrated spines, etc etc). Guppies are generally much better feeders, plus they'll breed themselves so I don't have to keep buying more and quarantining them. 

I'm doing a fishless cycle on two tanks right now. I'll admit, they're my first full fishless cycles and they're taking much longer than the tanks I've cycled with danios. It's been two weeks and my ammonia is just now starting to fall and I'm getting nitrite readings. 

Aren't feeder guppies supposed to be a lot hardier than fancy guppies?


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

yea feeder goldfish usually are disease packed. id imagine feeder guppies are as well, just because the conditions they are in. 2million(not literally but you get the idea) a tank so 1 is guarenteed to have some sort of illness meaning most likely they all do. 
why not throw a couple of those suckers in there? (i mean theyre sold to get eaten anyway, so if they die its not that messed up) :dunno: 
you could also take a scoop of gravel out of one of your established tanks and put it into this tank (it could only help in the process) that is, ofcourse if the substrates are the same.


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Yeah, if you've got established tanks then using some gravel from them and some filter media if its compatible with the filter on the feeder tank would be a great way to cycle it faster.

As for breeding feeders, I wouldn't trust anything labeled "feeder". Get some regular guppies and feed them to him, more colorful snacks.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Gravel from one of the other tanks you have that is already cycled will speed the process. You can put a cup full in some nylon ,tie it closed and push it into the substrate of feeder near the filter. Filter material from other tanks can be done same way with something to hold it down. I have simply placed colonized filter cartridges in the tank with a rock on them. You have in my view, the right Idea but then you know that don't you? Raising your own feeders drastically reduces possible contamination.


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## SheyFirestar (Jun 21, 2008)

if your gonna have a jack dempsey later i know rosie red feeder fish are very hardy thats what i used to cycle my tank and a dempsey will eat them too. u could use them to cycle then bring in your guppies and move the reds when the guppies start dropping babies. the reds would most definitely try to eat all the fry babies. but when u get your dempsey it will eat the reds so it think that would work out well.


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## Amphitrite (Sep 8, 2006)

iamntbatman said:


> I'm doing a fishless cycle on two tanks right now. I'll admit, they're my first full fishless cycles and they're taking much longer than the tanks I've cycled with danios. It's been two weeks and my ammonia is just now starting to fall and I'm getting nitrite readings.


What exactly are you using for the fishless cycle at the moment? The fastest I've ever managed a fishless cycle is using ammonia (bringing the levels up to 5ppm per day) with a constant temperature of 80 degrees, adding as much mature media to the tank as possible - via used filter media, gravel and ornaments.

Since finding this method, I've never cycled a tank with fish.


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

I'd just use zebra danios if you wanna do a fish-full cycle. They're pretty cheap, and they'll be hardy and healthy.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been using prawns to cycle. It didn't take long to get an ammonia spike, but it's really been plodding along since then.

I want to avoid danios for a few reasons. I've already got a school that has served me well in cycling all my past tanks (I haven't lost one yet!). It seems cruel to just keep doing that to them. Plus, I really don't feel like having to catch them out of their current tank and move them, then move them back. I don't want more of them because they can't stay in the guppy breeding tank (they'll eat the fry) and they definitely wouldn't last in the Dempsey tank. I just don't have anywhere else to put them after they're done cycling. It's really not a rush to get the feeder tank cycled (I haven't even set it up yet) since I plan on buying a really small Dempsey to start with so he won't be eating adult feeder guppies anytime soon.


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Aw, I meant just use them as feeders when you're done cycling. I don't keep any fish that eat feeders, but my friends always buy zebras for feeders instead of icky diseased feeders.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

See...I just couldn't bring myself to do that. Especially because the stand that's holding the 29g (and will eventually hold the 10g guppy tank and probably my 20 long as well) is *right* across from the 20g that has the danios in it. I couldn't bear to be like, "see...now I'm going to feed your cousins to my hungry, mean ol' Jack Dempsey. Act up and it's you next!" Plus, danios are easy to breed but still more difficult than guppies by a long shot. For example, in the middle of writing this post I just pulled some fry out of my fancy guppy tank and fed them to my killies  .


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Hehe- I guess I'm just mean. I'm thinking of converting my community tank to a pike tank as we speak. And I'm gonna get more lorteti puffers


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

What sort of pike? You better start setting up a guppy breeding operation yourself.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok, there's no way this is normal. 

The 29g I'm cycling for the Dempsey is...barely cycling. I'm still getting an ammonia reading that's off the charts, but no nitrite at all. I tried two different nitrite tests just to be sure, but both are still showing zero. What's going on here? I ran out of nitrate tester (as that's the one I use most often usually) but I doubt two 2-inch prawns can be producing ammonia faster than the the bacteria can process, right? I have a Skilter 250 power filter and a Fluval 204 on the tank, with tons of media for bacteria to grow on. I've also got filter floss in both filters that came from two different established tanks. What gives?


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## SheyFirestar (Jun 21, 2008)

how long ago did you start the cycling?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

It's been about three weeks now.


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## SheyFirestar (Jun 21, 2008)

maybe its just a curse of 29 gallon tanks. mine took ages nearly 2 months. maybe there is even some science to it. 3 in the morning is probably not the time to try and figure that one out yet. 

so you had nitrites and now they are gone right? i would think 4 inches of rotting shrimp would make a sizable amount of ammonia. you could always fish one of them out do a good water change and monitor the ammonia and nitrites then.


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## Peppee (Aug 21, 2008)

How high is the ammonia? Could it be high enough to kill the bacteria?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Peppee said:


> How high is the ammonia? Could it be high enough to kill the bacteria?


Is that possible? I'm not really sure the exact number on it. The closest color match is the top of the charts, 8 ppm. I didn't think bacteria that metabolize ammonia could die from too much of it, but then again I'm not exactly a biologist so who knows?

If that is possible, would you recommend a water change to bring the ammonia down a bit?


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

I'm pretty sure ammonia can't kill the bacteria. Considering ammonia is what they eat, and what you need in order to make them colonize in the first place.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, maybe it is the curse of the 29g. Tested the water just now - showing about 4 ppm ammonia and 2 ppm nitrite. I went to the LFS again today and completely forgot to get more nitrate tester, but that's not really important just yet. It's about time!


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## SheyFirestar (Jun 21, 2008)

i just wonder if its because of their extra height that they cycle slower. it took my biowheel almost 3 months to populate. but when it happened it was like over night full brown coverage. which from what i hear is normally looking like that pretty much right after or during the cycle.

edit* i dont think that ammonia could kill the bacteria, though in that high of a concentration its possible that it would not be its optimum growing situation. just like temp. sure you can cycle a tank at room temp but most people say 80 degrees is optimum. ammonia would be the same im sure but sadly none of the companies that have done research on the bacteria will release their work because we could then cycle tanks faster and without their products.


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