# Is my bad luck returning?



## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

So I got 4 albino corys on Tuesday from a store down in the city. I just found one dead. I also lost a neon tetra in that tank a couple days ago. I really hope my bad luck isnt returning. And really hoping its not something that lives on in that tank,after I lost all my bettas that were in it. Since it was only Tuesday that I lost it,I guess I can take it back and get another? Except it wasnt very close,and we rarely go down that way. :-?

Dang it! One of the pandas I got yesterday is getting munched on already.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Ergh..the panda is dead....stupid lfs says no livestock policy..even if it was less than 24 hours!! hes like bring in a sample and we see what we can do for you. I dont see how if my parameters were off whack that a fish would die in less than 24 hours of being put in. It was sick from the get go. It already had a nip out of its top fin. I didnt notice till I put it in,but I didnt think anything of it. 

Well im going down there,with my dad. Hes good at complaining haha. Hope they will do something cause well if not thats just bull. I tested my water myself,its perfect. 0 across the board. So its not that at all. Its them selling me a sick/dying fish. 5 bucks a pop for a panda too!!


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

fishyinpa said:


> Ergh..the panda is dead....stupid lfs says no livestock policy..even if it was less than 24 hours!! hes like bring in a sample and we see what we can do for you. I dont see how if my parameters were off whack that a fish would die in less than 24 hours of being put in. It was sick from the get go. It already had a nip out of its top fin. I didnt notice till I put it in,but I didnt think anything of it.
> 
> Well im going down there,with my dad. Hes good at complaining haha. Hope they will do something cause well if not thats just bull. I tested my water myself,its perfect. 0 across the board. So its not that at all. Its them selling me a sick/dying fish. 5 bucks a pop for a panda too!!


If your water parameters are off and are not in the range a fish is accustomed to it can certainly die rather quickly.

How do you acclimate your fish? Cory cats are sensitive when adding to a new tank (though they are hardy once they are acclimated correctly).

Good luck.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Oh okay thanks NC Frank. 

The guy at the lfs said my nitrates were very high so therefor he wouldnt replace my fish. I tested it at home here,same way. I do not get a high reading at all. He was saying it was off the charts and all the fish in the tank shouldve been dead. Well something not right,cause all the rest are alive and well. Unless I am missing something. 

Can nitrate readings be different in the AM and PM? I think I will try it again in the morning just to test that theory....


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm so sorry about your fish!!


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

fishyinpa said:


> Oh okay thanks NC Frank.
> 
> The guy at the lfs said my nitrates were very high so therefor he wouldnt replace my fish. I tested it at home here,same way. I do not get a high reading at all. He was saying it was off the charts and all the fish in the tank shouldve been dead. Well something not right,cause all the rest are alive and well. Unless I am missing something.
> 
> Can nitrate readings be different in the AM and PM? I think I will try it again in the morning just to test that theory....


Did he give you a specific number as to how high the Nitrates were? He could just be feeding you a load of garbage to avoid reimbursing you for a sick fish.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Something sounds fishy (forgive the pun) here with the Nitrates.

Is your water test kit still good? Do you use the API master kit? I didn't know until recently that the last four digits of the lot number on the individual bottles are the manufacture date. I've heard diff. opinions about how long the kits are good for - anywhere from 1 year to 3 depending on who you listen to.

Do you have any original decorations that you're still using in the tank? I suspect that one of those killed my betta Brutus. When I went to rinse off one of the caves after he died, the paint came peeling off. I'll never know for sure if that's what killed him because I never tested for lead or who knows what else other than the test kit. Since everything else looked like optimum conditions, that might just be what got him.

I really hope you figure out what the heck is going on with your fishy deaths - past & present.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

NC Frank-he told me it was 160 (the highest on the card)...but he said at that level all my fish should be dead....

Romad-the one says 0308 and the other 0608...

I have a log thing in with them, and I dont see anything peeling from it. Sorry about your betta. 

Well I tested it last night,highest I got was a 10ppm. I am testing it now and its at 40ppm. I did feed them though last night. I just dont see how it wouldve shot up to 160 and then back down to 10 over 24 hours....maybe it could...but wouldnt my fish be dead if it changed that much in that short period of time?


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## NC Frank (Aug 24, 2009)

fishyinpa said:


> NC Frank-he told me it was 160 (the highest on the card)...but he said at that level all my fish should be dead....
> 
> Romad-the one says 0308 and the other 0608...
> 
> ...


Considering nitrates normally get removed from water changes I question his reading if you are not seeing a reading anywhere near that mark. Your kits are fine for another year plus.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Your situation is certainly a mystery to us all. I hope your bad luck doesn't continue on.

Did you already break down the whole tank and start over? 

I'm sorry about your fishies.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Well this is my 12 gallon tank,which has been running for quite awhile. Maybe 6 months or so? I dont remember exactly. I havent lost that many from this tank. Only thing I did do was take out all the plants to catch all the Pencilfish which I moved to the 20 long upstairs. No way I couldve gotten em all without taking out the plants heh. 

My 20 long is the one that I lost all 4 bettas in. I tore it down,had no fish in it for like 2 weeks or so. Filter was still running and all that though. I put black sand in and slowly added new fishies.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The API nitrate test kit can give false readings. Regent #2 must be shaken for at least 2 minutes before adding the drops; the instructions say 30 seconds, but this is not sufficient and in several cases will cause false readings. This may be the cause for the high reading at the store. Or it may be the reason for false readings at home. Shake the regent #2 for 2 minutes next time and see what results.

Byron.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Oh...didnt know that...I will try it then. Hope its not really that high then!

Okay I did it that way,its sitting at 40ppm. Still not 160 like he said though.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

I just read this....what do you think??

Nitrate (NO3) is NOT toxic to freshwater fish in any concentration. Here is the dirty little secret about Nitrate, it is a great scape goat for pet stores when you come to them and say your fish are dying. Instead of having to actually know anything about fish or trying to find the real cause of the problem, they test the Nitrate, along with some other tests, and since just about every tank in existence has a nitrate level the is "un-safe" (according to the direction on the nitrate test kit) they have an instant answer for you. 

This works well when they are trying to CYA when a new fish you bought from them dies. They test the water and tell you it is YOUR fault the fish died because of this nitrate problem, then you see, they can say they didn't sell you a bad fish.

If your Nitrite and Ammonia are ok and the fish are not stressed, it sounds like all is well. Don't worry about it.
*Source(s):*

20 years in the Aquarium business as an aquarium store owner, a manager of 2 different aquarium stores and most recently owner/manager of professional aquarium maintenance company.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

fishyinpa said:


> I just read this....what do you think??
> 
> Nitrate (NO3) is NOT toxic to freshwater fish in any concentration. Here is the dirty little secret about Nitrate, it is a great scape goat for pet stores when you come to them and say your fish are dying. Instead of having to actually know anything about fish or trying to find the real cause of the problem, they test the Nitrate, along with some other tests, and since just about every tank in existence has a nitrate level the is "un-safe" (according to the direction on the nitrate test kit) they have an instant answer for you.
> 
> ...


Well, I've no comment on allegations about fish stores or staff, but...

The first sentence is absolutely inaccurate. Nitrate will kill fish, period. It needs to be very high, and different fish have different levels of tolerance. And while it will not usually kill them in a normal aquarium, the stress from higher-than-acceptable nitrates will lead to other problems like disease and parasites. Stress weakens the fish's immune system for one thing.

Any reputable and reliable authority will tell you that nitrates should be kept below 40 ppm in a freshwater aquarium, and preferably at 20 or lower. This is sound advice. In a balanced planted aquarium nitrates will seldom be above 20 ppm unless something goes wrong.

Byron.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Yeah I didnt think the first thing that person wrote was right...I figured at some level it would be toxic. Just the other part bout fish stores telling you this so they wont replace your fish. That sounded about right. 

If my tank is sitting at 40 would that still kill a fish in less than 24 hours? If three others from the same tank at the fish store has no problems?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

fishyinpa said:


> Yeah I didnt think the first thing that person wrote was right...I figured at some level it would be toxic. Just the other part bout fish stores telling you this so they wont replace your fish. That sounded about right.
> 
> If my tank is sitting at 40 would that still kill a fish in less than 24 hours? If three others from the same tank at the fish store has no problems?


As I mentioned previously, I don't think nitrates at 40 ppm will kill the fish you mention, but it is one (and only one) possibility that high nitrates led to other issues. From what you've told us, it seems more likely to me that the fish that died has something wrong with it; this happens. How can any of us detect heart attacks, kidney failure, liver issues, cancer, intestinal problems, stomach ulcers... all issues known to occur in fish. I suppose some of these can be brought on my all sorts of things. And Corydoras are especially sensitive to everything. I recently bought a trio of C. axelrodi, and within 3 days two of the three were dead. I waited two weeks before replacing them with two more. I did this because I know Corydoras often develop problems from capture and transport, and these had been received in the store the day previous; I'm fairly certain that the stress was just too much for the two of them. In this instance I didn't follow my own advice, which is never buy Corydoras until they have been in the store at least a week, and then carefully acclimate them to your aquarium.

B.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Very true. Sorry about your C. Axelrodi,that stinks. The manager told me they had the pandas in store for two weeks so none should have been sick. Are C. Pandas still wild caught or are they mostly tank bred now? Thanks for the info.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

fishyinpa said:


> Very true. Sorry about your C. Axelrodi,that stinks. The manager told me they had the pandas in store for two weeks so none should have been sick. Are C. Pandas still wild caught or are they mostly tank bred now? Thanks for the info.


C. panda are largely tank raised. My C. axelrodi were wild caught in Peru, making the ordeal even worse of course for them. B.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Oh okay.


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Grrr. I got a panda cory baby from that store in Philly,who replaced my dead Albino Cory. I just found that panda dead. And I know it was that one,bc it had a nip its dorsal fin. Seems to me now that if it has a nip its gonna die. The last one I got from my lfs had a nip in its dorsal,and that one died less than 24 hours later. This one lasted um 5 days. The new albino seems fine for now. ugh. Do you think I should take it back? Its within 7 days (ill have to go down sunday again). Honestly though all the pandas in that tank didnt look very good. I shouldnt have gotten it.


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