# a few questions about stocking and gravel...



## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

yet another thread...i really am addicted to this site 
so i have a few more questions...yes, MORE questions. first, how much gravel (kilos) do you think i need for a 15 gallon tank (24 x 12 x 15 inches...approximate measurements)
second, can anyone recommend some nice south-east asian bottomfeeders that would be at home in a 15 gallon? i wanted dwarf chain loaches, but having seen the exorbitant prices of them, i have a nasty feeling i won't be able to afford it 
third, i might need to get some ferts for my plants, and although someone recommended seachem flourish comprehensive i'm not sure u can get that in australia (will have to check at my lfs) so can you tell me what a good fert is that is available in aus?
i'm sure i have more questions, but can't think of them right now...
in the meantime, if there aren't any loaches i can afford or fit in my tank, would a bristlenose pleco be ok, or some corys? i WAS going for a SE-Asian biotope, but i'm starting to think that won't be practical. and i miss having plecs and corys, my fave fish :-(
i was feeling really discouraged about this hobby when my pandas died, but then i started thinking about an asian biotope and felt motivated again. now i'm feeling discouraged again. :-?


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Arnt u getting cherry barbs and a few loach type things?? Are there any other type of loaches u can get?? Get some corys!! They are so cool


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

thefishboy said:


> Arnt u getting cherry barbs and a few loach type things?? Are there any other type of loaches u can get?? Get some corys!! They are so cool


i am getting cherry barbs, but when i called the lfs today, the loaches were so expensive i think i won't be able to get them 
i love corys, but i wanted an asian biotope and corys are from south america...


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

fish are quite expensive, especially if you nedd a shoal 1 or 2 might not be expensive but then u nedd like 5 and it adds up?


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

cory's and plecos are south american dorabarker but they are dam cute though.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

thefishboy said:


> fish are quite expensive, especially if you nedd a shoal 1 or 2 might not be expensive but then u nedd like 5 and it adds up?


ok we are talking about fish that are $35 each k? :-? i think thats what he said anyway, maybe it was $5...i sure hope so.


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Ooh 35 each!! and if u nedd a few that will be a lot of money!! Well lets hopeit was $5


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> cory's and plecos are south american dorabarker but they are dam cute though.


:lol: they so are...but i've always had SA tanks in the past and i wanted to try something different. maybe this is the reason i've always stuck with SA fish? :| they are just affordable and cute and widely available...


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

try the two spot catfish they get about 6 inches though.they eat catfish food,algae and live foods or an ornate bagrid 1.5 inch, shoaling type.


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## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

You can get Flourish here in Australia.


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

kitten penang, how do u fit all od ur fish tanks in ur home?? And how big is ur arowana? Soz to go off topic had to ask :|


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> try the two spot catfish they get about 6 inches though.they eat catfish food,algae and live foods or an ornate bagrid 1.5 inch, shoaling type.


pelteobagus ornatus - Google Search

those ones? they are cute. i dont know if my lfs would stock them though.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

tanker said:


> You can get Flourish here in Australia.


oh good! :-D


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

ok i just saw an aquarium on here that had newts living in it and now desperatly want one...they are cuter even than corys and plecos! :shock: does anyone know about keeping newts with fish? or roughly how much they cost? they are just soo adorable...


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

dorabaker said:


> pelteobagus ornatus - Google Search
> 
> those ones? they are cute. i dont know if my lfs would stock them though.


definitely hose ones =)


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

thefishboy said:


> kitten penang, how do u fit all od ur fish tanks in ur home?? And how big is ur arowana? Soz to go off topic had to ask :|



well i got 3 room,balcony an a hall. 1 put the large one in the reading room, 2 on the balcony andd one in the hall lol. it's a foot long only still got a long way to go before reaching max size.


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

How big can they get 2??


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

i don't buy online but here are some links that will help.Tropical Fish Find Importers btw theres a good breeder in Ipoh.i sent a link to another person to get his discu but i can't find it.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> i don't buy online but here are some links that will help.Tropical Fish Find Importers btw theres a good breeder in Ipoh.i sent a link to another person to get his discu but i can't find it.


ok thanks i'll check out the link


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

thefishboy said:


> How big can they get 2??[/quote
> they type i keep grows to about 4 feet but that would take a very very long time :shock:


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

dorabaker said:


> ok thanks i'll check out the link


Malaysia price of fish, Malaysia price of fish manufacturers, Malaysia price of fish suppliers and companies on Alibaba.com heres another


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

would a dojo loach be ok, or do they grow too big? pakistani loach maybe? i had some of those once but they didnt live for very long :|


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

dojos get to about 12 inches, pakistani or yoyo loaches grows to about 5 inches. i bet the yoyos with less rowdy tank mates would be a better choice.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

read this and figure out what went wrong the first time "Yoyo" Loach (Botia almorhae) — Loaches Online


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> read this and figure out what went wrong the first time "Yoyo" Loach (Botia almorhae) — Loaches Online


thankyou for that  i reckon i overfed them - both got very fat shortly before becoming lethargic then eventually dying. i wonder how i stop that? maybe they need more veggies? they are rather cute, so if the lfs has them and they aren't to expensive i might get a few. do they need to be in shoals as large as 6 like the dwarf loaches...


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

Good quality flake, sinking pellets, algae wafers, chopped earthworms, thawed frozen Bloodworm, Mysis Shrimp, chopped cocktail shrimp. Avoid over-feeding as these fish are very greedy. This species is an avid consumer of snails. overfeeding definitely was the problem lol
_Botia almorhae_ is a generally peaceful, robust loach that is regularly available. They should be kept in a group of their own species. Like Clown Loaches, they have a social structure, and a certain amount of in-fighting will be seen. For this reason, provide numerous hiding places so that less dominant fish may escape the attentions of more boisterous individuals. During times of fighting or sometimes at feeding time, a pair of fish may "gray out." i think that answers your question.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> Good quality flake, sinking pellets, algae wafers, chopped earthworms, thawed frozen Bloodworm, Mysis Shrimp, chopped cocktail shrimp. Avoid over-feeding as these fish are very greedy. This species is an avid consumer of snails. overfeeding definitely was the problem lol
> _Botia almorhae_ is a generally peaceful, robust loach that is regularly available. They should be kept in a group of their own species. Like Clown Loaches, they have a social structure, and a certain amount of in-fighting will be seen. For this reason, provide numerous hiding places so that less dominant fish may escape the attentions of more boisterous individuals. During times of fighting or sometimes at feeding time, a pair of fish may "gray out." i think that answers your question.


funny thing, my 2 never fought...they did eat a lot though lol.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

greedy fish by nature lol. my rapheal cat fish are the same.the looks like their bellies gonna explode if i leave live blood worms in da tank.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> greedy fish by nature lol. my rapheal cat fish are the same.the looks like their bellies gonna explode if i leave live blood worms in da tank.


is it possible to overfeed with live food? i'm just wondering how i'm going to stop the loaches eating too much when i get them. my gourami is the same, when i had corys she always ate most of their food...and before that when i had the angelfish, the poor gourami nearly starved because the angelfish WOULD eat all the food.
oh btw forgot to mention do u think 5 kilos is enough gravel for my 15 gallon?


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

not sure but 5 kilos in a 15g would be enough.you'll have to fill it in and see for yourself.sorry. i used over 80 kilos in my guppy tank =S i used to have the same prolem.now i use small cup that are used to feed birds and put them in different locations in the tank with a small amount of live blood worms in each when it comes to feeding time. the bottom top and middle area on different sides of the tank instead in a large feeder bowl or a single plastic worm container stuck to the top of the tank. it gives everyone a nice sress free feeding time plus i dont need to put a lot in there


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

i generally feed my fish mosquito wrigglers because that's what i can catch in my garden. there are usually a few bloodworms in there as well but not a lot. i should probably invest in some frozen bloodworms...if they are cheap...applies to everything lol, i should get this i should get that..if it's cheap. :lol:


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

lol frozen blood worms are better on the hygiene part.they cost rm2.50 per pack of 24 pieces.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> lol frozen blood worms are better on the hygiene part.they cost rm2.50 per pack of 24 pieces.


hehe definitely getting some of those...although my mum probably won't be too happy about having them in the freezer :lol:


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

wrap them in old newspaper and hope she doesnt notice lol. but seriously they are clean since they been processed


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

not that i would eat them of course =p


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> not that i would eat them of course =p


lol of course not! i'll tell her how clean they are and then maybe she won't mind..
how many zebra/yoyo loaches do u think i could have in 15 gallons?


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

*** *For all types of tropical fish* *** *Vitamin enriched* *** *Flash frozen and sterilized to ensure freshness, nutrition, and quality*







Bio-pure blood worms are excellent for all types of tropical fish. Three-step sterilization ensures unequalled product quality - no harmful bacteria, parasites, or foul odors. Fortified with multi-vitamins. Packed in pure water and available in convenient "no touch" cube packs or flat packs. 
Please click on *"More Information"* for ingredients and nutrition information. 





show to your mom. 





15 gallons is kinda small since both types average 5 inches and since the zebra needs to be in a shoal of 5 or more.you will need to consider what other tank mates you wanna house with them with or do you want a species only tank.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> 15 gallons is kinda small since both types average 5 inches and since the zebra needs to be in a shoal of 5 or more.you will need to consider what other tank mates you wanna house with them with or do you want a species only tank.


i thought it might be too small. i wanted a shoal of cherry barbs, and i already have the golden gourami. if they're going to be too big for the tank, i might just get a bristlenose pleco because you know i love them


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

if you want a planted keep in mind let the plants settle down and have roots first esp cabomba. i told another member that BN will eat certain plants if underfed but he had already gotten the BN and it disrupted his plants a wee bit and he got rid of them. a caution thats all


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> if you want a planted keep in mind let the plants settle down and have roots first esp cabomba. i told another member that BN will eat certain plants if underfed but he had already gotten the BN and it disrupted his plants a wee bit and he got rid of them. a caution thats all


well i already have an established java fern on driftwood and floating elodea. i can't get any more plants until i have gravel. i want crypts...will the BN eat them? :-? i saw the thread about those fish that ate the cabomba.


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Im getting bn would that mean after cycling and setting up tank plants, i could add one maybe 2 months later??


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

thefishboy said:


> Im getting bn would that mean after cycling and setting up tank plants, i could add one maybe 2 months later??


yeah. also they are a good fish to add last as they can be a bit territorial if you have other bottom feeders.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

not sure what plants they will feed on coz i've never had BN. i have a book that helps me with fish and it said they would but not what type


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok kl


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> not sure what plants they will feed on coz i've never had BN. i have a book that helps me with fish and it said they would but not what type


ah well i'll just have to find out then. i've had them before and they never ate my plants, but then my past fishies never went by what the book said


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

lol it seems books and RL has a thin line or separation plus a grey area lol


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> lol it seems books and RL has a thin line or separation plus a grey area lol


i think it depends a lot on the individual fish. people dont give fish enough credit as individuals imo  i had a pair of corys once that defied everything i've ever read since joining this site by surviving salt, cycling tanks and one disaster that killed all the other fish in the tank at the time. they were Supercorys! hehehe


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

thats true.fish are speacial as are humans.we don't give them enough credit sometimes. there are always those special ones that break the rule. defy it or bend it lol


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> thats true.fish are speacial as are humans.we don't give them enough credit sometimes. there are always those special ones that break the rule. defy it or bend it lol


yep 
well i guess i'm getting a BN, unless those loaches turn out to be $5...i'll give it lots of cucumber and hope it doesn't go for the plants :|
thanks for all your help! off to bed now, it's 1:30 am here :shock: lol!


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

nite nearly 12 am here =)


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Its only 5 pm here!


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

really?? you must be in the US


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Im in england


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## CaliforniaFishkeeper (Jun 29, 2010)

9:05 AM here in SoCal.


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Kl


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

lol my moms in England not sure when she's coming back. she's gonna get the shock of her life.all her pond fish died not long after she went to England


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

CaliforniaFishkeeper said:


> 9:05 AM here in SoCal.



your an early bird.not working today?


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Owch that doesnt sound good!


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## CaliforniaFishkeeper (Jun 29, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> your an early bird.not working today?


No, today is for being lazy. Only thing that I have scheduled for today is water changes on all my tanks.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

thefishboy said:


> Owch that doesnt sound good!


yup doesn't smell good either.dad called about the stench and wanted me to come over and fix it. i sent a maid and a condolence card on my behalf :lol:


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

does it take a while for water changes on ur tanks??


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

CaliforniaFishkeeper said:


> No, today is for being lazy. Only thing that I have scheduled for today is water changes on all my tanks.


good luck in not getting wet. i just finished messing around with my new sump. got pretty messy in there :-?


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

i sent a maid and a condolence card on my behalf :lol:[/quote]
haha lol, not loling at the fsh!


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

I dnt quite get wat a stump is?? wat is it??


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

thefishboy said:


> I dnt quite get wat a stump is?? wat is it??


sump is a kind of filter.another aquarium used as a filter, that kind


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

thefishboy said:


> does it take a while for water changes on ur tanks??



dont do all the tanks at once and it wont take a lot of time esp if you have large tanks :-?


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Oh kl it takes me like 20 minsdo do my goldish tank its so tedious!


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

i clip the hose to the tank and put the nozzle right at the level i wanna suck out. on the tap tap and wait till the water enter the tank then i off the tap and pull off the hose and put the other end near the drain pipe.watch tv get and see the pipe has stopped sucking pop it into the tap and refill.add water conditioner and done. btw this is a normal water change not the weekly type whey i have to do gravel vacuuming.


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## CaliforniaFishkeeper (Jun 29, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> dont do all the tanks at once and it wont take a lot of time esp if you have large tanks :-?


I do all of them at once, lol.


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Gravel cleaners are realy useful, 2 for 1!


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

CaliforniaFishkeeper said:


> I do all of them at once, lol.


waste a perfect day of sun and surfing :-D


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

thefishboy said:


> Gravel cleaners are realy useful, 2 for 1!



3 in one the shakers help a lot lol much better then sucking not that i do that .. it's just yucky!! ;-)


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## CaliforniaFishkeeper (Jun 29, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> waste a perfect day of sun and surfing :-D


 Trust me; if you lived where I did.... You would want to waste as much sun as possible.... It was 111F yesterday.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> 3 in one the shakers help a lot lol much better then sucking not that i do that .. it's just yucky!! ;-)


i fill my siphon hose under the tap and put my fingers over the ends...need to get a real gravel vacuum. :shock:


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

CaliforniaFishkeeper said:


> Trust me; if you lived where I did.... You would want to waste as much sun as possible.... It was 111F yesterday.



i'de be crisps in that kinda heat.you guys having a heat wave or something?? :shock: it's like 28 degrees here and i on my air conditioner and go out after 6 pm unless necessary. no i'm not a vampire yet but i wish i was :lol:


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Lol


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## CaliforniaFishkeeper (Jun 29, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> i'de be crisps in that kinda heat.you guys having a heat wave or something?? :shock: it's like 28 degrees here and i on my air conditioner and go out after 6 pm unless necessary. no i'm not a vampire yet but i wish i was :lol:


Heat wave is an understatement. I constantly feel as if I'm going to burst into flames at any second.


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

In england we all moan about the winter and when summer comes were all moaning is to hot and wishes its winter! It must be nothing to the haet u get!!


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

dorabaker said:


> i fill my siphon hose under the tap and put my fingers over the ends...need to get a real gravel vacuum. :shock:



my hose is too long to do that lol


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

CaliforniaFishkeeper said:


> Heat wave is an understatement. I constantly feel as if I'm going to burst into flames at any second.


i'm picturing hell rider :lol:


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

thefishboy said:


> In england we all moan about the winter and when summer comes were all moaning is to hot and wishes its winter! It must be nothing to the haet u get!!


seriously you feel hot in summer. my family always complained in summer it's still freaking cold at the beach.i'm guessing we are fond of being warm.:roll:


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

thefishboy said:


> In england we all moan about the winter and when summer comes were all moaning is to hot and wishes its winter! It must be nothing to the haet u get!!


bahahaha thats kind of what it's like here in aus. i hate the heat and love winter, but everyone else moans about winter...we get 40 degree days in summer. :shock:


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Owch


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

thefishboy said:


> Owch


i know! i'm so sad that winter's nearly over. summer here is scorching.:evil:


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Oh i forgot ur finishing ur winter and wer going into winter!!


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

wish we had winter here lol i pay to play with snow rofl


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> wish we had winter here lol i pay to play with snow rofl


we dont have snow here, in fact i dont think i've ever seen snow in real life


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## StacyK (Aug 23, 2010)

dorabaker said:


> yet another thread...i really am addicted to this site
> so i have a few more questions...yes, MORE questions. first, how much gravel (kilos) do you think i need for a 15 gallon tank (24 x 12 x 15 inches...approximate measurements)


I've always read that you need 1lb of gravel per gal of water...I've always stuck to that and it seems to work out ok except in my planted tank, where I had to add additional sand to keep the plants in place.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

StacyK said:


> I've always read that you need 1lb of gravel per gal of water...I've always stuck to that and it seems to work out ok except in my planted tank, where I had to add additional sand to keep the plants in place.


that works out at about what the lfs told me


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## Mettalikatt (Jul 26, 2010)

I just dumped gravel till I had about 2-2.5 inches worth


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

Mettalikatt said:


> I just dumped gravel till I had about 2-2.5 inches worth


yeah but i need to know roughly how much to get


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## Mettalikatt (Jul 26, 2010)

I bought 12 bags for my 38 gallon. I'd grab like 5 I think, gravel is cheap if you get too much oh well.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

Mettalikatt said:


> I bought 12 bags for my 38 gallon. I'd grab like 5 I think, gravel is cheap if you get too much oh well.


5 kilos would be $15....


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

dorabaker said:


> we dont have snow here, in fact i dont think i've ever seen snow in real life


:shock: whats winter without snow :shock:


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## CaliforniaFishkeeper (Jun 29, 2010)

dorabaker said:


> 5 kilos would be $15....


10-15 lbs per 10 gallons works for me :]


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