# 90 Gallon Tank



## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

Hello, I am new to this forum. Let me introduce myself. My name is Franklin and I live in Houston, TX. I have a 90 gallon tank with 8 angelfish, 1 Royal Pleco, 1 Green Phantom Pleco, 1 Orange Spotted Pleco, 4 Golden Balloon Electric Blue Rams, and 10 Buenos Aires Tetras. I recently did a major décor reconstruction on my tank. I had black sand but removed all of it (did this slowly within a month) and added gravel. Then I had put in a cured piece of driftwood. After all this I also added two Black Angel Longfins (juvenile) to the tank. I think the two newly added angelfish were sick because I did not find them ever again. A day later, my angelfish start acting weird. They started to stay near the top of the tank. I noticed without the aquarium light on, the fish had a red tint as if they were internally bleeding. I started to treat them with Melafix. 3 of my angels passed but I have 5 remaining. Funny thing is, none of the other fish in the tank seemed to be affected at all. I have recently finished a 7 day treatment cycle and put the carbon back into my filter. The Angelfish are still near the top. I think there is something wrong, but why not the other fish? My water parameters are as follows...

pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0ppm-.25ppm
Nitrite - .25 ppm
Nitrate - 80 ppm

If anyone could help me out please, it would be greatly appreciated. I will post pictures soon


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

going by the readings you had a mini cycle, could of been what did them in


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

It looks like you tank is cycling being cause its new or you sent it into a "mini" cycle either way those readings are not good for fish. Nitrites at any level can be bad if not deadly if they are in it for a prolonged period. Nitrates are a little bit safer but at those numbers can cause problems over time. If it was me I would do more frequent water changes starting out at 25% and gradually moving up to 50%+ water changes. I would do some heavy gravel vacuuming also. Clean water is what you are after with numbers of Ammonia -0, Nitrites-0, and Nitrates-20 or less is best.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

It's really important to quarantine new fish.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

+2 - API Melafix is an antibacterial so you just may be starting over with cycling. As mentioned you need sufficient water changes and testing to get the params down to safe limits. I'd also suggest using Seachem Prime conditioner as it can aid in cycling because it detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for 24-48 hours helping to protect the fish and develop the BB.

Note: also, although possible, I think it's more rare that fish just disappear (e.g. get eaten over night...unless you have some real toothy stock). Decaying fish will cause problems with your water parameters. I'd look long and hard for dead bodies as sick fish often hunker down in the most unlikely places.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

I have Prime already. So I should just keep doing water changes daily and test the water everyday? How about feeding? I was reading the bottle I can give more dosage to eliminate the nitrates nitrites.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

frrranklinn said:


> I have Prime already. So I should just keep doing water changes daily and test the water everyday? How about feeding? I was reading the bottle I can give more dosage to eliminate the nitrates nitrites.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It doesn't get rid of them, it just binds to them to make them temporarily non-toxic. That only lasts for a day or two when they once again become toxic. Even when bound though, they will still show up with test kits so you will not get a zero ppm reading.

As long as Ammonia and/or Nitrite are present I would do water changes every 48 hours if you are using Prime. Sooner (daily) if Ammonia/Nitrite levels rise.

80 ppm Nitrate is also quite high, you want that to be no more than 20 ppm but less is obviously best.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I concur with what's been suggested. As someone who has had this very same problem, I may be able to add a bit.

Tank-raised fish (which angelfish will be unless you deal with a direct importer of wild fish--but the Black Lace is a tank-bred variant so not wild anyway) seem to be carrying more and more pathogen, especially internal protozoan, these days. I now quarantine all new fish for 5-6 weeks, since I lost about 1/3 of my main tank a couple years ago. Melafix and similar products will not help if the issue is internal protozoan.

Adding two angelfish to an established tank should not in itself have caused any ammonia or nitrite issues. But there was the recent make-over with new substrate (even if done in stages). Are there live plants? Floating plants (which angelfish like on their own) will help a lot when it comes to nitrification, and issues with minor problems are easily handled.

Another issue that occurs to me is adding angelfish to an existing shoal. This is never a good idea. The existing group will have their hierarchy within the group, and any newcomers will almost always be seen as intruders. Some suggest moving the existing fish to a new environment when adding new fish can get around this, and sometimes it does, but sometimes not. Once a group of angels is in a tank, leave them. The additional stress of this aggression, on top of the considerable stress of moving the new angels to this different environment, plus any of the other issues...pretty soon it is a considerable stress load and this will cause some health issues that might perhaps have been fought off otherwise.

As trouble is still present (the behaviour of the angelfish) I second doing daily water changes of half the tank, using Prime but not more than needed. I assume the nitrates are not in the source (tap) water? Water changes should get these down, which is important. Vacuum the substrate too, as suggested earlier by someone.

Byron.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

I will test the water from my faucet when I get home. I will do daily 50% water changes with vacuuming the gravel. The angelfish are the only fish near the top of the tank. The other fish appear to be normal and eating. If I am doing a 50% water change should I add enough prime for 90 gallons? Or just half.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

There is some debate on that but in this situation I personally would add enough for the tank. After you get the nitrites gone and the nitrates down I would just use enough for the amount of water you add back during a water change.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Boredomb said:


> There is some debate on that but in this situation I personally would add enough for the tank. After you get the nitrites gone and the nitrates down I would just use enough for the amount of water you add back during a water change.


I'll agree, to keep the peace. But don't go overborard, I don't care what Seachem may say about doubling or tripling the dose...chemical is chemical and it adds stress to fish at the best of times, and even more when they are already weakened.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

Another one of my favorite angelfish have passed away. I am in the process of checking my sink water. Again none of the other fish seem to be bothered by anything..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

pH is still at 7.6
Ammonia is at 0ppm
Nitrite is at .25ppm
Nitrate is at 40ppm maybe even 80ppm.

I did a water change about an hour ago, 50% and added two capfuls of prime. The other angelfish are doing worse than yesterday.


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## ZivaD (Jan 26, 2013)

frrranklinn said:


> I will test the water from my faucet when I get home. I will do daily 50% water changes with vacuuming the gravel. The angelfish are the only fish near the top of the tank. The other fish appear to be normal and eating. If I am doing a 50% water change should I add enough prime for 90 gallons? Or just half.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you using buckets or a direct in/out-flow water change system? If it's the former, treat per bucket volume each time, if it's the latter you would treat for the total tank volume. Given the situation and the concern about added stress by over-dosing (even though it's advised as safe by the product info) I would be tempted to go with buckets so that you can direct treat the water and not have to add any more chemical than absolutely necessary.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

ZivaD said:


> Are you using buckets or a direct in/out-flow water change system? If it's the former, treat per bucket volume each time, if it's the latter you would treat for the total tank volume. Given the situation and the concern about added stress by over-dosing (even though it's advised as safe by the product info) I would be tempted to go with buckets so that you can direct treat the water and not have to add any more chemical than absolutely necessary.


I am using a direct in and out flow water change system.

Here are the water parameters from the faucet

pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrite - Very High - cant tell if either 2ppm-5ppm
Nitrate - 5ppm

I can't believe the readings for my faucet water...


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

frrranklinn said:


> I am using a direct in and out flow water change system.
> 
> Here are the water parameters from the faucet
> 
> ...


This can be handled by using Prime for a conditioner or any conditioner that detoxifies these. There are several Prime is just one. Do you have any live plants?? These will help also. As for when to put the conditioner in I would still put it into the tank first then turn the water on and fill the tank.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

Boredomb said:


> This can be handled by using Prime for a conditioner or any conditioner that detoxifies these. There are several Prime is just one. Do you have any live plants?? These will help also. As for when to put the conditioner in I would still put it into the tank first then turn the water on and fill the tank.


I do not have any live plants in my tank. I syphoned out half the water then before filling it back up, I put in the Prime (enough for the whole 90 gallon, not just the new water)


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

frrranklinn said:


> I do not have any live plants in my tank. I syphoned out half the water then before filling it back up, I put in the Prime (enough for the whole 90 gallon, not just the new water)


Floating plants will help ad in the removal in nitrates in the water.
Also Abbeysdad has written a thread on how to handle this issue. You should read it as I think it will help you out. http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/high-nitrates-source-water-156489/


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

frrranklinn said:


> I do not have any live plants in my tank. I syphoned out half the water then before filling it back up, I put in the Prime (enough for the whole 90 gallon, not just the new water)


Also I think you adding the amount of conditioner to cover the tank was a good idea at the moment but you may need to do more down the road (and I am not talking about adding more conditioner.) and that thread from Abbeysdad will explain and help more then I can at this point as I don't have nitrites or nitrates in my source water.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

Boredomb said:


> Floating plants will help ad in the removal in nitrates in the water.
> Also Abbeysdad has written a thread on how to handle this issue. You should read it as I think it will help you out. http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/high-nitrates-source-water-156489/


What kind of plants should I add? I am not too knowledgeable about planted tanks. I have a Marineland LED lighting system. It is 1800 lumens


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

frrranklinn said:


> What kind of plants should I add? I am not too knowledgeable about planted tanks. I have a Marineland LED lighting system. It is 1800 lumens


I really don't know much about LED and what Lumens you need to support plant growth. Soo I can't really help there but as for floating plants in general Water sprite, Duckweed, Frogbit work good. There are others as well. Have a look at the Fish profiles at the top of the page there is a section in there about plants and its broken down into rooted plants, floating plants, stems, and non substrate rooted plants I believe. It will give ya some I deals. Also if you can catch JDM I believe he uses LEDs and might be able to help with figuring out what plants you could have.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

At some point you may need to address pre-filtering or an alternative for your source water. 

In the meantime, Prime gives you some advantage in the temporary detox, but this will only work as long as you do 50% (or so) water changes at least every 2 days.

You might also find value in using API Nitra-Zorb in your filter. Nitra-Zorb is a 'scavenger' resin that adsorbs ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. It can be recharged many times with ordinary non-iodized salt. 
...Or, another product that looks very intriguing is API Bio-Chem Zorb. It contains additional 'scavenger' resins that adsorb and remove a wide range of pollutants and toxins.
(In your case, I'd likely go with a pouch of Nitra-Zorb and assuming you have municipal water with chlorine/chloramine, only use the Prime to condition the amount of water in your water change. (For now, I would refill using 5g buckets. For Prime, using a childs medicine dropper, it's 2 drops per gallon. 10 drops in 5g - mix well.) If you continue to fill in the aquarium, add 1 capful before refilling for a 55g aquarium.

Also as boredom pointed out, this post may be worth a read if you haven't already: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/high-nitrates-source-water-156489/

Good luck and keep us posted.

AD


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

frrranklinn said:


> I am using a direct in and out flow water change system.
> 
> Here are the water parameters from the faucet
> 
> ...


I think you all are missing something here. You are talking about ways of solving Nitr*ates* but Nitr*ites* are the killer issue here. 5 ppm Nitrates from tap are nothing to worry about ... but 2-5 ppm Nitrites is instantly lethal!

Something like Nitra-Zorb is necessary, but I would strongly agree with Abby that you may want to look into pre-filtering. Going to a full reverse osmosis system may not be necessary, but you can't keep adding source water that contains that much Nitrite.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Geomancer said:


> I think you all are missing something here. You are talking about ways of solving Nitr*ates* but Nitr*ites* are the killer issue here. 5 ppm Nitrates from tap are nothing to worry about ... but 2-5 ppm Nitrites is instantly lethal!
> 
> Something like Nitra-Zorb is necessary, but I would strongly agree with Abby that you may want to look into pre-filtering. Going to a full reverse osmosis system may not be necessary, but you can't keep adding source water that contains that much Nitrite.


Please note: Although I use it primarily for nitrates, API Nitra-Zorb also claims to be effective in adsorbing ammonia and nitrites as well as nitrates. 
Although I suggested pre-filtering, it would also be effective in the tank filter. 

I'm thinking that once the bio-filter is working again and smaller volumes are used for routine partial water changes, the combination of Prime, Nitra-Zorb and bio-filtration just may be the ticket to water quality...and pre-filtering, although I think advisable, may or may not be necessary.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

frrranklinn said:


> I am using a direct in and out flow water change system.
> 
> Here are the water parameters from the faucet
> 
> ...


The EPA has a standard of 1ppm as a safe drinking water .... here's an excerpt and a link:
_
"The MCLG for nitrite is 1 mg/L or 1 ppm. EPA has set this level of protection based on the best available science to prevent potential health problems. EPA has set an enforceable regulation for nitrite, called a maximum contaminant level (MCL), at 1 mg/L or 1 ppm. MCLs are set as close to the health goals as possible, considering cost, benefits and the ability of public water systems to detect and remove contaminants using suitable treatment technologies. In this case, the MCL equals the MCLG, because analytical methods or treatment technology do not pose any limitation."
_EPA Nitrite regs

I'd be concerned about more than the fish here.

Jeff.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

JDM said:


> The EPA has a standard of 1ppm as a safe drinking water .... here's an excerpt and a link:
> _
> "The MCLG for nitrite is 1 mg/L or 1 ppm. EPA has set this level of protection based on the best available science to prevent potential health problems. EPA has set an enforceable regulation for nitrite, called a maximum contaminant level (MCL), at 1 mg/L or 1 ppm. MCLs are set as close to the health goals as possible, considering cost, benefits and the ability of public water systems to detect and remove contaminants using suitable treatment technologies. In this case, the MCL equals the MCLG, because analytical methods or treatment technology do not pose any limitation."
> _EPA Nitrite regs
> ...


I hope the testing results were wrong. I am going to retest the sink water and hopefully get better numbers. Now I am scared for my family. If I get the same results, should I contact the city?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

frrranklinn said:


> I hope the testing results were wrong. I am going to retest the sink water and hopefully get better numbers. Now I am scared for my family. If I get the same results, should I contact the city?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perhaps get a quick second opinion, take it to a fish store (most test for free). If they also get those readings for Nitrites I would definitely contact your water utility.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

frrranklinn said:


> I hope the testing results were wrong. I am going to retest the sink water and hopefully get better numbers. Now I am scared for my family. If I get the same results, should I contact the city?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not to be a fear monger.... I would contact them anyway even after testing it yourself again and getting a favourable result as you won't know which test was accurate. The city can test the water more accurately and is responsible to be doing so on a regular basis. I would consider that this is not only your problem as nitrites that high almost certainly cannot happen in just one household on a water grid.

Get them to check it for you.

Hopefully it was just the test strips and someone can gloat at Mitch sometime about their accuracy.

Jeff.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

Sorry for the late update. The water is atrocious. I have put in NitraZorb into my canister filter. I have also added duckweed and hornwort to my tank. I had also bought Tetramin Bacteria for a 75 gallon and did a 25% water change and added that. The fish seem to be doing a lot better. When I get home from work, I will be doing another small water change and testing the water. My fish are no longer at the top. The angelfish are acting a little weird but the rams, plecos, and tetras are breathing fine again. I will try to snap some pictures today.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

frrranklinn said:


> Sorry for the late update. The water is atrocious. I have put in NitraZorb into my canister filter. I have also added duckweed and hornwort to my tank. I had also bought Tetramin Bacteria for a 75 gallon and did a 25% water change and added that. The fish seem to be doing a lot better. When I get home from work, I will be doing another small water change and testing the water. My fish are no longer at the top. The angelfish are acting a little weird but the rams, plecos, and tetras are breathing fine again. I will try to snap some pictures today.


First, what happened with the Nitrites in the water test?

Good that there is a change in the fish behaviour for the better.

Tetramin Bacteria? Why?

Jeff.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

The fish store worker told me it would help out to add the Tetramin Bacteria.. I haven't had any dead fish since.
Update -
I've been too tired after work to test the water but I have been doing 25% water change every 2 days. The fish seem to be doing a lot better. Going to test the water tonight and already made a complaint to the city about the water but nothing has been done.

I have 3 Koi Angels now, 10 Buenos Aires Tetras, 1 Royal Pleco, 1 green phantom pleco, 1 orange spotted pleco, and 4 golden ballon electric blue rams. I am thinking about adding some Congo tetras, 2 boesmani rainbow, 2 red rainbows. Was looking for a bottom feeder but not too sure if it's already overcrowded. I will post water parameters in a bit. Any insight on my 90 gallon being too crowded?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> The fish store worker told me it would help out to add the Tetramin Bacteria.. I haven't had any dead fish since.
> Update -
> I've been too tired after work to test the water but I have been doing 25% water change every 2 days. The fish seem to be doing a lot better.


Water changes really are miraculous, whatever the issue.



> I have 3 Koi Angels now, 10 Buenos Aires Tetras, 1 Royal Pleco, 1 green phantom pleco, 1 orange spotted pleco, and 4 golden ballon electric blue rams. I am thinking about adding some Congo tetras, 2 boesmani rainbow, 2 red rainbows. Was looking for a bottom feeder but not too sure if it's already overcrowded. I will post water parameters in a bit. Any insight on my 90 gallon being too crowded?


The Congo Tetra would be a much better tankmate than the Rainbows because of the angelfish. Keep an eye on the Buenos Aires Tetra though, they might fin nip the male Congo tails, even if they don't bother the angelfish.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

Just tested my water Parameters in my new tank.

pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 40ppm

I'm not sure why nitrates are still high...

I also started a 5gallon for my betta. Its a Fuval Spec V. I tested the water and Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate were all 0ppm. Does that mean my betta is safe to add? I only had it running for a couple days


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

frrranklinn said:


> I also started a 5gallon for my betta. Its a Fuval Spec V. I tested the water and Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate were all 0ppm. Does that mean my betta is safe to add? I only had it running for a couple days


Toss in some floating plants, lots of them, and the Betta will be fine.


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## frrranklinn (Apr 28, 2013)

Byron said:


> Toss in some floating plants, lots of them, and the Betta will be fine.


I have a java moss ball and some hornwort floating on top! I'm just scared the tank has not started cycling because it's a brand new tank with new everything
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

With the plants and only one fish it won't need to cycle in the classic sense as the plants will more than use up the ammonia produced circumventing the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle. It still happens in the background but you can disregard it. The more plants the merrier but be sure to leave some surface clear for the betta to access as they like to gulp air... although I see it far less in a larger tank... better water quality means less need to gulp air I suppose.

Jeff.


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