# A guby aquarium for starter



## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Hi! 

I always wanted to have a fish tank and recently (2 hours ago) i got the seal of approval from my mom to let me have a fish tank (she always afraid of me not taking care of it and end up taking care of it for me, but that won't happen since i know im really serious about this). Im in college right now and this is my final week so im thinking of starting to make one like a week from now so this week, beside from study and playing WOW, imma gather information of how to make, and maintain one. I been doing a lot of research on it and i have a some questions, answers and advices are always welcome and appreciate.
For me, taking away life is a very bad thing (i never kill an ant in my life after i know things) so unless the guby died of aging, otherwise if it die, i would feel really bad and blaming myself so i need to know what the heck im doing here so any advice is deeply appreciate. 

1. I planning to have a 3 - 4 gallons aquarium and my fish of choice is guby, so how many guby is a good number for the tank?
2. Algate control, how many time in a week do i need to clean the tank and what are some other method to control algate like fishes that eat algate and go together with guby?
3. The only spot in the house that i can put the tank is damn close to a heater and there is no way to change this around so is there any problem cause i know guby is sensitive to temperature and what is the right temperature for a guby tank? (if the problem is critical, then i will consider to place the tank at a different spot). 
4. I need to know how test the ph in water and what is a critical ph level for guby and what is an ideal ph level for guby?
5. The place where i place the guby tank is the living room so it kinda high traffic place so will the guby gonna have a lot of stress?
6. How long is guby life expectancy?
7. How do you tell the difference between female and male guby?
8. I planning to go very far with this like to the day i died and after im good with all the basic stuff, i want to breed guby.

Thank you for reading


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Uhhhhh.....i spelled guppy wrong the whole time. Lol!


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

cycle your tank. Should be the first thing u do. As for guppies, they breed so either you get a bigger tank or only get same sex guppies. In a 3-4 gallon tank, u can gave a max of 4 with no algae eaters or anything else. Algae can be controlled with water changes and live plants. As mentioned above, if u get 4 guppies u cant have any algae eaters. Go with 3 guppies and u can have 1 oto but otos prefer to live in groups so its a tough balance. AS far as i know guppies do fine between 76-80. whats the room temprature of the place ur living? there are mini heaters that add 3-4 degrees to ur water on top of ur room temprature. Unless ur water out fo ur tap is ridiculusly high or low over 8 or under 6, your guppies should be fine as long as u acclimate them properly. High traffic is fine as long as nobody stomps around, or bangs on the glass continuously. Life expectancy is completly dependent on water conditions. Males and females are usually sperated at the sotre for you. IF you want to breed guppies, thats a whole other tank setup. You will need at least 15 gallons, two tanks, one with a spong filter for the babies and, in all likelyhood, breed your own baby food, since buying it really adds up. Good luck. But the most important thing, if you dont want to harm any guppies, is make sure you cycle ur tank. Look up fishless cycling.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Nelphie,

I'm glad you cleared up the "guby" thing, I was beginning to wonder, lol. SinCrisis has gave you some great information to get you started. Like he said, the most important and crucial aspect to keep fish healthy and happy for a long time is to cycle your tank from the start. If you cycle you tank, you will make things easier for you in the future. Trust Us.

Sin's post was great, i just wanna add a "check list", if you will, of things which are neccessary to maintain a healthy aquarium. 

Make sure you only get one sex guppies, or you will see babies everywhere, like everywhere.

Dechlorinator (Prime or Stress Coat are highly reccommended)
"cycle" (a bottle of this stuff will help jump start your cycle)
Gravel, or other subtrate for the bottom of your tank
Filter
Ammonia (this is used in the cycling process, JUST MAKE SURE IT IS PURE AMMONIA)
Small heater
Thermometer
Hood and Lights
*API Master Liquid Test Kit* (this will be the best $25 you spend on your tank will save you daily trips to the fish store during your cycle stage, make sure it's the liquid drop kit, not the strips)
Any decor you may want (can be cleaned by using a diluted water/vinegar solution)

The only thing I could be aware of with a tank in a living room is sunlight. If the tank is in a spot where sunlight will hit it throughout the day, algae will be a problem. See if you can keep it out of sunlight

There's some more basic information for you....if you have more specific questions, feel free to ask!!!


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Thanks Sin and John for your information, it was very helpful to me. 

For Sin: im thinking of getting the tank around 5-10 gallons now since i want to have more guppies but i think 10 gallons tank is too big for the space i have so i have to go to my lfs to see what is the biggest tank i can fit there (i probably gonna do this this Saturday). My room usually at around 70-80 but during the summer it could be a little problematic since my ac is really bad, so the room temp can rise up to 90+ which i guess is a bad thing.

For John: Thanks for the tip, i know what equipment i need to buy for the tank now. And im a night person, i don't really like sunlight so i keep the curtain closes 99% of the day and the tank is not place under a place where sunlight can hit so i guess i saved with this.

For algate control, i probably gonna do some research on fresh water plant seem it sound more ideal then algate eater and it make the tank look nicer too.

Oh, petco sells guppy ranging from 3-5 dollars each depend on species so is that a reasonable price or not? and they are fancy guppy.


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## froglady (Apr 12, 2009)

I think everyone is giving great ideas. for your setup for your guppies. I have a ten gallon tank. for breeding mine. but with limited space you might have to go smaller. keep us posted on your tank.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

oh wow 90 and up? opening the id to a tank helps cool it but then you water evaporates like crazy. I know people who do water changes on hot days and put in slightly cooler water to regulate temperature. However, if the temp change is too much it might shock some of the fish. As for pricing, 3-5 dollars sounds standard for pet store costs. However, if you can find a breeder, the fish will probably be healthier and be a bit cheaper. Also note, bigger tanks are less affected by room temperature. Meaning a 10 gallon tank will not heat up as much on a hot day than a small 3 gallon one. as for plants, since you probably don't want to spend a bunch of money on getting superb lighting and higher level substrates, go for low light ones that are hardy. Plants like Java Moss are both good for keeping nitrates down and serve as a good plant for guppies to spawn on. Also note, i believe guppies have the tendency to eat their young occasionally so for the highest yield in babies, the parents need to be removed. Also whatever filter you decide on, put filter foam or floss on the intake so the babies don't get sucked in. You probably don't want to breed immediately, but if you decide on getting mixed sex guppies, there is a good chance you'll get them.


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## froglady (Apr 12, 2009)

My house gets up to 100 degrees in the summer. without an ac. I float ice water bottles in the tanks. and they do pretty good. I hope we can get a ac this summer. or I;ll be adding bottles thru out the day. the fish are worth the care we give them.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Thank you all for your helps!

I just did some research on fresh water plant and here are what i probably gonna get for my tank, cabomba, java moss and pearlweed. 

For the 90 degree stuff, at first i was thinking of putting ice down to cool the tank but Froglady hit me ice bottle and it just better so thanks here for the icy tip.

I have decided to postpone the guppies breeding program to whenever i have a bigger place to fit a 30+ gallons tank so in the mean time, i will get all male guppies. 

Another thing i consider is i probably gonna get a snail for algate control and they can eat off the plant so they don't grow too big too.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

cabomba is a moderate light plant. As for pearlweed, i dunno. BUt with Cabomba, you will need to invest in special bulbs for your hood. If the snail you get is a herbivore, it will decemate your plants. Snails should not be used to control plant growth. They are also usually terrible algae eaters unless you find nerite snails. Trumpet snails will also munch on algae, especialyl useful for thread and hair algae, and will not eat your plants but are still not huge eaters of algae. a 10 gallon can hold around 8 guppies and 2 otos. THe Otos are excellent algae eaters and, after cycling, will consume the brown diatom bloom that many tanks experience. Also think about using amano shrimp for algae control. Shrimp have a smaller bioload than fish but amano shrimp are harder to find. ALso with any invertibrates make sure the food you feed do not have copper.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> cabomba is a moderate light plant. As for pearlweed, i dunno. BUt with Cabomba, you will need to invest in special bulbs for your hood. If the snail you get is a herbivore, it will decemate your plants. Snails should not be used to control plant growth. They are also usually terrible algae eaters unless you find nerite snails. Trumpet snails will also munch on algae, especialyl useful for thread and hair algae, and will not eat your plants but are still not huge eaters of algae. a 10 gallon can hold around 8 guppies and 2 otos. THe Otos are excellent algae eaters and, after cycling, will consume the brown diatom bloom that many tanks experience. Also think about using amano shrimp for algae control. Shrimp have a smaller bioload than fish but amano shrimp are harder to find. ALso with any invertibrates make sure the food you feed do not have copper.


By oto u mean _Otocinclus macrospilus _right? 

Just doing some research on cycling and now i have some questions.
Do i cycling first than add the pebbles and the plant or add the plant & pebbles first before i do cycling?
Do i change water after i cycling or i don't need to change water after my tank is cycling?
Once the tank is cycling what do i do to maintain the cycling or once your tank is cycling, you don't have to do anything else except for put in your fishes and enjoy it for a long heck of time?


I just talk to a friend and he said he has many fish tanks of different sizes and he will let me have one (like if he not, then he will in for a world of hurt, jk jk!!!) so it look like i can get one soon and save myself some money. (SCORED!)


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

add the gravel or pebbles and cycle with that. Ive been told its fine to cycle with plants since they aren't affect by ammonia spikes. No water changing during cycling. i dunno about changing water after cycling, i personally dont, i just add a couple of fish at a time and do daily water tests. Once cycles ur tank is good. Cycling builds up bacteria and a lot of it is in ur gravel and filter. When u clean ur filter use old tank water to rinse it because tap water will kill all the good bacteria. As long as you dont lose a lot of bacteria at once, your tank should be fine. thats awsome ur friend is giving you a tank. Although its good to save money, dont skimp on the filter and test kit since those are super important in the long run.


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## SamG (Apr 3, 2009)

I believe you are supposed add the pebbles and decorations before you start cycling (I don't know about the plants) so that the beneficial bacteria has more places to grow on. I'm not sure about whether you are supposed to change the water or not, but I didn't while cycling my tank, and it seemed to work fine. While the tank is cycling, you add a little ammonia every day to feed the bacteria while monitoring your levels of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate (you can find test kits for these at pet stores, the liquid test kits are the best). It's not a good idea to add fish until after the cycle is finished, because ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish. During your cycle, the ammonia will rise first, then it will begin to drop and the nitrite will begin to rise, and eventually the nitrite will drop and the nitrates will start to rise. When this happens, you have your beneficial bacteria and you can add fish (although I believe you are supposed to do a few water changes over the next few days before adding fish).  

If you get a fish tank from your friend, it will probably already be cycled, so you might not even need to worry about the cycling. ;-)


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SamG said:


> If you get a fish tank from your friend, it will probably already be cycled, so you might not even need to worry about the cycling. ;-)


Lol, my friend gave me the tanks because he got too many tanks and his fish are all die now due to not knowing how to cycling and never spend the time to look up how to properly care for a fish. 

Oh, today i found out that one of my best friend is an expert at taking care of fish. She is one of my best bud but i never knew she know such thing until today, although i knew she running a 2 years old tank. She said she gonna help me with buying the kit and everything and teach me how to cycling too but she advice me not to get guppy because it extremely hard to raise. She told me that she used to have like 16 guppies but they are die like really quick. She also told me not to get neon tetra because they die very quick too. T.T I love neon tetra!!! But anyway, im probably won't heed her warning and will start out with 5 guppies and see how it go. I went to a lfs today and they didn't have a great fresh water selection but the good new is they sell 3 guppies for 5 dollars so that is way cheaper than Petco, and they got this one fish called Redwag Platy and the fellow is quite cute so im thinking of getting a few of those guys too, what do you guys think? Oh, i picking up the tank tomorrow so im so excited now.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

well you shouldn't be getting any fish for a couple of weeks until your tank is cycled... Neon tetras have a shorter lifespan than most other tetras because of the size and quantity they are shipped in. But guppies should last at least 2-3 years.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> well you shouldn't be getting any fish for a couple of weeks until your tank is cycled... Neon tetras have a shorter lifespan than most other tetras because of the size and quantity they are shipped in. But guppies should last at least 2-3 years.



ah damn, that is too long, im a very impatient person if i know there is a shortcut, and this shortcut will be imma ask my friend for the cycling water because at the end step where the water is cycling, they need to do a big water change (75%) so i just ask for 25% of her water and add to my tank 75% new water and continue feed ammonia from there.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

oh well if that's the case ask her for a used filter foam and float that in your tank. Just be sure you condition your water so u don't kill the bacteria on the foam. Also there's a couple of bacteria cultures out there that help accelerate the bacteria growth in your tank but even the quickest shortcut will still force you to wait about a week before adding fish.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Nephelie said:


> ah damn, that is too long, im a very impatient person if i know there is a shortcut, and this shortcut will be imma ask my friend for the cycling water because at the end step where the water is cycling, they need to do a big water change (75%) so i just ask for 25% of her water and add to my tank 75% new water and continue feed ammonia from there.


Its good to see you want to take the time to cycle your tank properly! However, I just want to say this. The water in the tank does not much beneficial bacteria at all, some, but not a whole lot, if you want to jump start your cycle, ask for friend for some filter media, if she can't do that then have her scoop out some gravel and you can put it in a mesh bag or a panty hose and put it in the bottom of your tank, either one will definetly help to jump start your cycle for you. 

Good luck, everyone here has given you some great advice for maintaning a tank.

I also wanted to just add, that after your tank is cycled (your ammonia and nitrite is zero for several days) you will see a big reading for nitrates, you will need to do a 80% water change before you add fish, this will lower them significantly, and your weekly water changes will help to maintain a safe level.

Good luck, any quesitons, keep shootin!


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> Its good to see you want to take the time to cycle your tank properly! However, I just want to say this. The water in the tank does not much beneficial bacteria at all, some, but not a whole lot, if you want to jump start your cycle, ask for friend for some filter media, if she can't do that then have her scoop out some gravel and you can put it in a mesh bag or a panty hose and put it in the bottom of your tank, either one will definetly help to jump start your cycle for you.
> 
> Good luck, everyone here has given you some great advice for maintaning a tank.
> 
> ...


By changing water weekly you mean every week i have to take out 80% of water in the tank and add in a new 80% of tap water right?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

java moss will nearly halt that nitrate jump if you have a large enough clump if it. That's what i used with my 46 gallon. I cycled and near the end of it i planted all my plants. Never got a nitrate spike.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> java moss will nearly halt that nitrate jump if you have a large enough clump if it. That's what i used with my 46 gallon. I cycled and near the end of it i planted all my plants. Never got a nitrate spike.



so i should just cycled my tank first then plant the java moss but cabomba and pearlweed shouldn't be a problem right?

And after a serious amount of consideration, i decided not to take the shortcut cause i want to learn from the very basic and the basic is always important. Imma take my time with the fish since this is a live and death situation here, i have to prove to my friend that i can raise guppies better than her. I will pick the tank up like in 4 hours from now after my final then imma go buy the pebbles and everything and hopefully cycling the tank tomorrow morning.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Nephelie said:


> By changing water weekly you mean every week i have to take out 80% of water in the tank and add in a new 80% of tap water right?


No, sorry I wasn't more clear.....once your tank has cycled, before you add fish, you will want to do a 80% water change to lower the high number of nitrates. Weekly water changes are generalyl 15-20%....keeping in mind always to dechlorinate the water before adding it to your tank.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> No, sorry I wasn't more clear.....once your tank has cycled, before you add fish, you will want to do a 80% water change to lower the high number of nitrates. Weekly water changes are generalyl 15-20%....keeping in mind always to dechlorinate the water before adding it to your tank.


how do i dechlorate it?


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

OMG!!! i didnt meant to double post but i found out that at petsmart, there is a product called cycle and it help you cycled faster. I read the review and it seem to work pretty good. XDDDDD so i probably try this out.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Nephelie said:


> how do i dechlorate it?


when you pick up your bottle of "cycle", which is a great product....pick up a bottle of dechlorinator. Prime by SeaChem is a great product as is Stress Coat by API....let us know how your shopping trip goes, don't forget a liquid test kit...


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

stress coat is very good. it will help in the future with injured fish. Another product by API called stress zyme will also help accelerate the cycling of your tank.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Ok, finally i done with my finals and stuff, it felt like forever. Anyway, i got the tank, and it is a 5 gallons tank. I was thinking of having 3 guppies (all male), 2 platy, and 2 shrimps. Imma plant the live plants and cycle the tank tomorrow once i get all the equipments after work. I will post a pic tomorrow if i have time. Also, is the plan out for the fish good?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

platys grow to more than an inch and so do guppies. 3 guppies and 2 platys is overstocking. Also what kinf od shrimps? Ghost shrimp wont add much of a bioload at all but others do grow fairly big.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> platys grow to more than an inch and so do guppies. 3 guppies and 2 platys is overstocking. Also what kinf od shrimps? Ghost shrimp wont add much of a bioload at all but others do grow fairly big.



3 guppies, 2 ghost shrimps (if i can find em at my lfs) and 1 female betta?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

my betta is 2 inches and still growing, i heard they can reach up to 3 so also pushing your limits. 3 guppies and 2 ghost shrimp would be a good amount for a 5 gallon tank. Unfortunately, 5 gallons are very limited. most 5 gallons vie seen usually house 1 betta and 1 apple snail or 1 betta and a couple of ghost shrimp. Also note, although it may be a bit cramped, if you really want to overstock, there are things u can do to make it work. stronger filtration and more surface agitation would allow you to have more fish than the incher per gallon rule. Just note that more surface agitation = less co2 in your water = bad for live plants.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Today, when i went to buy the equipments, i found out that my tank is actually 10 gallons, not 5, and don't ask me how could i mistake it for a 5 gallons tank. Anyway, i set up my tank already and that how it look like below. Didn't like the big gravel a bit, damn, I screwed up again. I bough all the equipment at petsmart. It cost me around 100 dollars. The guy who works there look like he really knows about fish. He told me that i don't need to cycle the tank, just set up everything and let the tank run for 5 days to a week and test the water first to see how it is then if it good then just add the fish in, but he said after i let the tank run from 5-7 days then it should be good for the fish. He told me to buy dechlorinator and add it to the tank when i got home which i did. 

In the tank right now:
the right side is a thermometer and a heater 
the left side is a filter
around is some cabomba


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## froglady (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi thats great its a ten gallon tank. how exciting. I think its a good idea to let it run for at least 7 days..


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

froglady said:


> Hi thats great its a ten gallon tank. how exciting. I think its a good idea to let it run for at least 7 days..


Yeah, i was thinking of letting it run for 7 days too. Anyway, is it how it gonna cycled?


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## froglady (Apr 12, 2009)

well thats about how long id let it run. the cycling thing. might have to add some kind of addiitve. but some one on here should be able to answer that question better then me.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

You tank will need more than 7 days to cycle! Unless you are adding existing filtration media from another established tank. If you are doing a fishless cycle, you are looking at atleast 3 to 4 weeks. PetSmart, PetCo and all the generic pet store chains generaly are clueless on how to acutally take care of a fish tank. 

Have you decided if you are cycling with or without fish? If you going fishless you will need to pick up some ammonia(make sure it is pure ammonia). If you are going fish-in, you will need to a few fish which are hardier than guppies or a betta....zebra danios are a popular choice. Fishless cycle involves adding ammonia daily and testing daily......Fish-in involves daily test and daily water changes.

As for your supplies, you will need to get a better test kit. I would return the ones you have for a API Master LIQUID test kit. The dip strips are unreliable and often give a misreading. During your cycle you will be testing your water on a daily basis and need a reliable to test. the API master kit is one of the best on the market....definetly the most reccommended on here.

I would pick up a bottle of "cycle" too, it will aid in the establishment of your tank and help jump start the process of getting things running right. Prime, Strees Coat and Stress Zyme are also very popular choices for the weekly maintenace of a fish tank.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

WOW, that guy knows NOTHING about fish if he tells you not to cycle. That's terrible, i hate misguided pet store employees. You stated before that you would hate to hurt the fish and i can guarantee that if you choose to not cycle you will kill at least a couple of them. JohnnyD44 is absolutely right on the test strips. They're terribly unreliable. Moreover, they will become really expensive int he long run. Guppies can be very fragile fish. Many are inbred because breeders often try to breed them to get better colors so they sell better. Doing a fish in cycle with guppies will stress them out terribly. As Johnny said, a betta would handle the ammonia much better thana guppy. 

For future reference, 95% of employees who work at petsmart and petco tell you fish care data to promote their sales. For example, by telling you that you dont need to cycle, its almost guarenteed fish will die in the ammonia spike. Thusly, you will need to restock within a couple of weeks. this means more money for the store. Although i'm sure most of the employees dont tell you the false information on purpose its what they're trained to do since most of them don't go into the job having a petcare background. Listen to the people on this forum, many have way more experience and will help you a lot more.

Lastly, excellent choice on the filter. Going for a filter designed to filter double what your tank size is, is often the right choice to ensure ur water is kept best. However, i must warn you, i used to use aquaclear, and if you do not keep up with filter maintenence, it will clog and overflow. I had major water damage in one part of my house because I left for school and my parents enver changed the filter. In 3 months the filter clogged and we switched to a canister. Also in your picture i see no filter media. To cycle right, you will need the media IN. The filter foam is a huge aprt of cycling for bacteria growth. Without it, cycling could take much much longer. I must implore that you cycle your tank before stockign it. 

Bah, i keep forgetting things. As per plants, i see you got dechlorinator, but i hope you used it before adding plants. I've heard that chlorine can damage plant roots. Also, you may want to consider some for of fertilization since your water is clean right now and should be devoid of nitrates and other forms of trace mienrals needed for growth. Also your tank has no hood, at least not in the picture. Are you going for a natural light setup? If you do you must amke sure the water is balanced to avoid too much algae growth. If you do ahve a hood, its a top fin one probably from petsmart and your plants will require one with a higher spectrum to imitate sunlight because your cabomba is a medium light plant.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Again with the forgetting >.<, since your going with live plants, skip the carbon filter media. It'll take out nutrients your plant needs. Only use the carbon after you medicate your tank so it draws the chemicals out.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Imma go the store again tomorrow and return the test strips and get the test kit and a bottle of cycle like Johnny said. Yeah, imma do the fishless cycle just to be safe. Also, i got some cabomba today but i couldn't find pearlweed. What should i do here?

As for Sin, ur last paragraph kinda bother me because i added the dechlorinator after i added the plants and i didn't know anything about fertilizer. I have a flourescent light that is very near to the tank and imma take a picture of it tomorrow to let you guys judge whether is it ok to leave it as it is or i have to get a new light.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

well as long as you didn't leave your plants in chlorinated water for an extended period of time. if you dechlorinated right after introducing your plants you will be fine. Although a lot of people describe lighting as watts per gallon, the rule is actually more tuned towards spectrum rather than wattage. Theres a thread somewhere in the forums about ti but it gets very complicated. If you ahve a nearby light thats strong, it may be fine. Did you get a hood included with your tank? this is not as important but a hood will help reduce evaporation and reduce moisture in teh room you ahve your tank. Its not a necessity but will amke your life easier. 

note: Pearl Weed (Hemianthus micranthemoides)
also has medium light requirments.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

good call on returning your test kit of another one. You will need to buy some ammonia for your tank as well. Make sure it is pure ammonia, its be the strong kind for cleaning or the scented kind, just plain ammonia. Good luck, let us know you make out!


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

haha i'm just repeating what Johnny is saying but make sure the ammonia you buy is 100% ammonia. Anyhting else will introduce bad chemicals to your tank. Ive heard of some peopel letting little bits fo food rot in the tank while adding bacteria cultures. This takes longer to cycle but i heard its easier to control this way.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Yeah, you can use raw shrimp, that will work to I've heard


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Ohk, I lost the receipt for the stuffs i bough at petsmart so i don't think i can return the test kit. I went to a lfs instead and bough the master test kid like John said but the store owner said he doesn't has any ammonia. He ask me why do i need that cause it bad for the fish then i told him i doing the fishless cycle so i need the ammonia for that but he looked at me in a weird way, like "what the hell is fishless cycle" way. Anyway, i bough a cycle bottle instead and i did the test for the tank before i added in the cycle liquid. Here is the result 

High range ph = 7.8-8.0
Ammonia = 0
Nitrate = 10
Nitrite = 0

I also remove the carbon filter for tank. I noticed that the cabomba is getting a little bit gray and dull now. I think it dying.

Here is the pic for the light

with the light off









with the light on









What next now?


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Cycle, is a great product to help jumps start your cycling process, but it does take the place of ammonia. you will need ammonia to cycle your tank without fish. 

Tank looks good, I would be hestiant to keep that light on the tank like that, you will see some algae growth on the left side of your tank, if not all over it. 

Get your self a bottle of ammonia and figure out how much needs to go into your tank to start getting a reading on your test kit. 

Good job on getting the master kit, you'll thank yourself later on!


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> Cycle, is a great product to help jumps start your cycling process, but it does take the place of ammonia. you will need ammonia to cycle your tank without fish.
> 
> Tank looks good, I would be hestiant to keep that light on the tank like that, you will see some algae growth on the left side of your tank, if not all over it.
> 
> ...


Where can i get a bottle of ammonia?

I be thanking you later for the master kit!


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

you can get a bottle of ammonia at your local hardware store or even a grocery store would have it. Just make sure that it's _pure_ ammonia..and it's not the "sudsy" kind either. 

let us know how you make out


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

If you don't wanna use the ammonia dropping fish food flakes will also help promote bacteria growth. Little bits at a time. the cabomba is dying because its probably shocked. plants, like fish, work better if acclimated. The light, i do not think is sufficient but i could be wrong. Ive had cabomba before and the plant is ver sensitive to changes in water parameters. When i moved mien it browned and 50% of them died. The other 50% adapted and grew fine. Give the plant some time to adjust. IF the plant start decaying and dissolving in your tank, you may want to remove it. However, in your current situation, since you are cycling, the rooting plants might help your cycle. after your tank is stable, rotting plants should always be trimmed and dead ones removed.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

also your hood looks like it was designed for a terrarium instead of an aquarium. Can someone confirm this? It doesn't look like you can put your hood on with your filter in. Also that hood will obstruct light as it looks like black with mesh. marineland makes glass hoods thats have a plastic back end so you can cut it to fit your filters. They're also all glass so light passes through them perfectly. Finally, the light oyu ahve set up looks like something you will have on for a long time? Note that tanks should only get light for around 8-10 hours, of course this varies dependign on plant amount, but too much light will cause algae blooms. I dont think your light is direct enough to affect your tank too much but if you start experiencing algae blooms, you might want to figure out a way to cut back on the lighting.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

I agree about the hood also, good point Sin


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

No, i can't put my hood together with the filter.

Seriously, getting pure ammonia is harder than i thought, i went to 99cents store, Home Depot, and Stater Bros but the only thing i can find is something called Clear Ammonia but on the ingredient, it said Ammonia Hydroxide with Surfactant. So is this the right one?


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

your local store should carry "pure ammonia"....ingredients should say just water and ammonia

Have you addresed the filter/ hood dilema?


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> your local store should carry "pure ammonia"....ingredients should say just water and ammonia
> 
> Have you addresed the filter/ hood dilema?


When i ask my lfs about ammonia, he was like "why do u want ammonia, it gonna kill ur fish." Then i told him im doing fishless cycle but he looking at me all weird and tell me that he doesn't has any pure ammonia. 

For the hood, i don't think i would be much of a problem. Or maybe when i have more money later, i will buy a different hood. Do they sell the hood separately?

What is hardness range? i been reading a lot of this in fish profile already but what does it mean?

Does oto is a bottom dweller so does he take tank space?


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Nephelie said:


> For the hood, i don't think i would be much of a problem. Or maybe when i have more money later, i will buy a different hood. Do they sell the hood separately?


Are you just going to leave the hood off until you find one which will work?? and yes, they do sell just a hood for a 10G, it comes with notches in the back to break off to make room for your filter.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> Are you just going to leave the hood off until you find one which will work?? and yes, they do sell just a hood for a 10G, it comes with notches in the back to break off to make room for your filter.


What is the purpose of having a hood anyway? If it important then i will get it soon cause im running low on money right now. Lol!


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

the all glass hood from marineland is designed to stop evaporation. When water evaporate, it affects filter power and also increased the concentration of nitrates and other non evaporable substances in your tank. Without a hood you will be adding water a lot, especially on hot days and your room will be very humid. You said before you added dechlorinater after addign teh water, in the future dechlorinate before adding the water to the tank. As for importance of the hood, its really up to you. If you are ok with having to top off your tank every couple of days and can tolerate humidity, then its really not as important. Guppies do not jump, at least ive never heard of them jumping, so you can save up and buy a hood later.

The pure ammonia is never sold in pet stores. Fishless cyclign is atechnique developed by experienced fish keepers so its kinda like DIY cycling. If you cant get ammonia the cycle will take longer but the end result is the same. As for hardness range, for guppies it really doesnt matter that much. unless you know for a fact taht your water is extremely hard or soft, you dont really ahve to worry too much. Yes all fish take up tank space. Otos all count as 1inch fish so 1 gallon of space. However, if you do go Otos, they enjoy being in groups so roughly 3-6. however, tehy eat algae like mad and your tank will ahve very little right after cycling so you can hold off on getting otos until you see algae forming or get algae tablets to feed them. Guppies count as 1 - 1.5 inch fish. 

starting a new tank is very expensive. When i started my 46g tank i had to spend close to a grand just to get the right equipment. However, note that keeping fish is cheaper in the long run than keeping land animals like dogs and cats.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Seriously, i can't find ammonia any where. I went to several lfs just now but all of them gave me the same expression once i ask them for pure ammonia. Anyway, is there another efficient way to get ammonia into my tank?


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

have you checked your local grocery store or lowes??


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> have you checked your local grocery store or lowes??



Yeah, went there too. Most ammonia there are mix. Any, i just went to my mom fridge and got some frozen shrimp and put em in a bag with holes and dump it to my tank. I hear that this is an alternative method for getting ammonia.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

you can also add fish food


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

But how do i control this method? What do i do to control the amount of ammonia in the tank?


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

I can't help you here, I"ve only ever used ammonia, I'm sure someone else will be along to help you out. I can't believe you cannot find pure ammonia...it's stocked in grocery stores everywhere...


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

for me ive always used old fish flakes. I just pour in like a pinch everyday and it kinda just sits at the bottom for a day or two and then it starts to rot and dissolve and the water turns a little cloudy, water tests show that ammonia is really high, and I drop a pinch fo food once every 2 or 3 das until the water stops being cloudy and the ammonia drops to 0. and then i introduce my fish. It takes liek 3 weeks though. And im 80% that my method doesnt preforma full cycle, just a partial one but i was starting off with danios so i knew that the little bit of ammonia that returned was something the fish could handle. For guppies and otos, you need a full cycle done.. you could keep doing my fish food method and follow a longer timeline to be sure. If you google it im sure you could find a guide to it. Frozen shrimp will rot in the bag real slowly but its the same concept as using old fish food.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Ever since I started doing fishless cycles, I've used the shrimp method. Just stick a frozen shrimp in a filter media bag or some pantyhose and drop it in the tank. As it rots, it will give off ammonia at a fairly steady rate. Keep testing the water with your liquid test kit. You should see the ammonia spike, then lower as the nitrite increases, then the nitrite will begin to drop and nitrate will climb. Eventually, you'll steadily have readings of zero ammonia and nitrite and your nitrate will keep climbing. At this point, you're ready for fish. Just remove the bag, do a water change to get the nitrate down to acceptable levels (under 20 ppm is ideal) and you're set. 

Remind me: how big is the tank, and what is your stocking list?


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

iamntbatman said:


> Ever since I started doing fishless cycles, I've used the shrimp method. Just stick a frozen shrimp in a filter media bag or some pantyhose and drop it in the tank. As it rots, it will give off ammonia at a fairly steady rate. Keep testing the water with your liquid test kit. You should see the ammonia spike, then lower as the nitrite increases, then the nitrite will begin to drop and nitrate will climb. Eventually, you'll steadily have readings of zero ammonia and nitrite and your nitrate will keep climbing. At this point, you're ready for fish. Just remove the bag, do a water change to get the nitrate down to acceptable levels (under 20 ppm is ideal) and you're set.
> 
> Remind me: how big is the tank, and what is your stocking list?


First thanks for helping, second i have some questions for you. 

I have a 10 gallons tank, i was thinking of putting in 5 1.5 inches fish and 2 shrimps

I dump a bag with open ends of 4 dead shrimps down the tank. I want to know if that enough. And by keep testing the water, do mean weekly or daily?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

if you go with ghosts shrimps their bio-load is smaller than their size. You could probably put in 6 guppies and 2 shrimps. however, ghost shrimp are not huge algae eaters.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Four shrimp should be more than enough. Since you don't have any fish in the tank yet, you don't _have_ to monitor the water parameters constantly, but you'll still want to do tests every few days so that you don't miss something like the ammonia or nitrite spiking. 

Five guppies and 2 ghost shrimp is a fairly light bioload. You could add a couple more guppies and several more shrimp if you wanted with no worries. As SinCrisis said, the shrimp are extremely light on your bioload.

No animal in your tank should ever be counted on to keep your algae problems completely at bay; if you've got an algae outbreak, you're going to have to do some scrubbing yourself in order to get that glass nice and clear. Ghost shrimp do, however, do a good job of picking through the gravel to eat pieces of food that have made it to the bottom.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

if you can find amano shrimp, those are known for doing a decent job of grazing algae. They do a better job than Ghost Shrimp but they do grow a little bigger. Still fairly light on your bio-load though.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

watch out for you guppies and babies....they are in the live-bearer group


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## froglady (Apr 12, 2009)

I think the shrimp method or the flake food method. would work pretty good. its kinda up to you, I dont do the store ammonia thing. Im sure its probably a good way too. Ive put filter medium from my other tank in , and sometimes scoop out some gravel and add it to the cycling tank,


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

well if he went all males then he wouldnt have to worry about babies.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

I was thinking of having 3 guppies and 2 sparkling gourami since they all only grow up to 1.5 inches and probably around 2,3 cherry shrimp or amano shrimp like Sin suggested. Or maybe 2 shrimp and 1 oto.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

i would avoid getting just 1 oto, they get stressed and often die prematurely. They are very sensitive fish. Cherry shrimp are beautiful, could never find the near me though. Your setup sounds great, let us know how it works out


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

yeah I know Sin, I just didn't re-iderrate the point of getting all males

good luck Nelphie, everyone on here has given you some great advice....post some pictures when you can


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

JohnnyD44 said:


> yeah I know Sin, I just didn't re-iderrate the point of getting all males
> 
> good luck Nelphie, everyone on here has given you some great advice....post some pictures when you can



Definitely John, Once i done with the tank, i will post some pics of it to show you. And yes, everyone here is very great and helpful and im very thanksful to all of people who has helped me.

Sin: post a pic of your tank ya, I saw what in it and it amazing, show me pic ya ya! XD


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Haha that description isnt accurate anymore, Ive lost a couple of plants and some fish when i went to college. Ill see if i can get my camera to focus right.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

A technique to quicken the cycling time, as mentioned earlier, is to "seed" the tank using gravel or old filter media from an already established tank. However, in my experience, the nitrite spike still happens, since the ammonia-eating bacteria multiply faster than the nitrite-eating bacteria. Also, the nitrite-eating bacteria are hindered from multiplying by ammonia. Hence the noticeable nitrite spike.

I've read from the net, (and tried it too. It works!) that once you detect a nitrite spike, you can re-seed the filter to get in more nitrite-eating bacteria. I did this by squeezing a sponge from an estabished filter over my filter media. It clouded up the water a little bit, but a small water change will do the trick. You can even wait it out and just do the partial (20-30%) water change just before adding the fish. If you're using gravel to seed, then just add a second handful of gravel in a stocking/mesh bag. It shortened my nitrite spike to two days, as compared to around 1 or 2 weeks unassisted.

good luck with your guppy tank!


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

I see now that the shrimps starting to get rot like real bad, so is it safe to put my hands in without wearing a gloves?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

unless you suspect the shrimp of having introduced some parasite into your tank, it should be ok. It'll be kinda gross but just wash your hands afterwards. I get this crazy itch and rash after i clean my filter bare handed but some soap fixes it real quick. You should be fine. How are your plants doing?


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> unless you suspect the shrimp of having introduced some parasite into your tank, it should be ok. It'll be kinda gross but just wash your hands afterwards. I get this crazy itch and rash after i clean my filter bare handed but some soap fixes it real quick. You should be fine. How are your plants doing?


They doing great, i just bought a drift wood with a plant for 10dollars at my lfs and putted in my tank so it look kinda nice right now. I ask him how long he has that drift wood and he told me that he had tat for 6 months already so i think it safe to put in my tank.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

did you take it off the shelf? A piece of driftwood can sit on a shelf for a year and will still need to be boiled before you can add it to your tank. Be aware that driftwood release "tannin" into the tank which will turn your water a light orange/tan color

was this driftwood already in an aquarium or on a shelf?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

when u say with a plant do you mean the plant was in the wood? or u got a plant and a piece of wood?


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Ohk, first the plant is planted on the wood and the wood is in a tank but here is a problem i just found out, i found a baby snail in the tank and i don't know how many out there. Seriously, tell me that the snails gonna die because of the ammonia in the tank cause i don't want to have a snail out break later.

what should i do now? i removed the wood already but argggggggggggggggg!


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

snails are not that bad of a problem. Lupin is the snail expert on this forum. If it really becomes an issue, create a thread with snail somewhere in the title and hes bound to drop in and give you his info. I keep trumpet snails in mine to keep my flourite loose and they munch on rotting leaves and clean algae off rocks that my otos cant get to. see if you can get a picture, in all likelyhodo you got pond snails. these are a pain soemtiems because their eggs are clear. However, they can eb removed manually and they don't burrow so just get a nice bright light and go snail hunting. Wash the wood thoughly, go over all of it make sure theres no snails on it and replace it in you tank.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

The snail's shell is cone and it too small for me to know what king of snail it is (even if it big enough, i proabably couldn't even tell the differences since i know nothing about snails.) XD

The drift wood is nasty, last night when i took the drift wood out, i putted it in a bowl and this morning, inside the bowl was a bunch of weird looking insect crawling all over the bowl. Seriously, it was sick. I just hope they didn't get in my tank yet. Anyway, tat is the end of drift wood for me. From now on, no more drift wood or if i going to get one, i will boiling it again and do all that required to keep it from hurting my tank.

Anyway, i did the 2nd water test today, Here is the result. Look good?

PH lvl : 8.0
Ammonia: 2.0
Nitrite .5
Nitrate 10


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

If it's a fishless cycle (It is, IIRC), then it's looking good. In a few days/a week, the ammonia's going to go down while the Nitrite increases. I don't usually test for Nitrate when cycling, only after adding fish. 

You can "reseed" your filter when ammonia reches zero and you enter the nitrite spike. Once both ammonia and nitrite reach zero and stay there for a couple of days straight, then do a 25-30% water change and you're ready to add fish! Congrats, your tank is cycled.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

like insects in the water?  someone else put up a thread a while back about underwater insects from their plants too. Could you post some pictures? I feel like ti would be such waste to toss out a good piece of driftwood. Try and see of you can remove the plant and wash that thoroughly and boil the driftwood and then replant the plant in the driftwood. Tie it down onto the wood and it should start growing into the wood again. as for the snails, if you can see them, crush them and they will die. Snails have huge water content so they rot super fast in a tank. Right now, since they are small, their rotting bodies wont affect your water parameters by much, and since you are cycling it will probably help your tank. Just crush em whenever you see em. If they are small they wont be able to breed for a while.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Following this thread, two observations. First the snails, if cone shaped they are probably Malaysian Livebearers, very good snails (in most aquarist's opinion). These and the common pond snail that someone mentioned in an earlier post are not problematic; they find uneaten food that even fish can't find, eat algae (limited), and the Malaysian snails burrow through the substrate keeping it healthy by eating food down there and keeping the gravel from compacting, thereby allowing water and oxygen to circulate; they are generally a sign of a healthy environment. They multiply obviously, provided food is available. Don't overfeed, keep the water clean (weekly partial water changes with light gravel vacuuming) and they shouldn't be a problem. If there are more than you want, just pick them out.

Second, the insects from the wood. About the only way this could happen would be if the wood sat on the shelf in the store and some insect made a home in it. Boiling it is water for 30 minutes should solve this, and also remove much of the tannins making it perfect for your tank.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

adiumroot said:


> If it's a fishless cycle (It is, IIRC), then it's looking good. In a few days/a week, the ammonia's going to go down while the Nitrite increases. I don't usually test for Nitrate when cycling, only after adding fish.
> 
> You can "reseed" your filter when ammonia reches zero and you enter the nitrite spike. Once both ammonia and nitrite reach zero and stay there for a couple of days straight, then do a 25-30% water change and you're ready to add fish! Congrats, your tank is cycled.


what is "reseed" mean? do 25-30 water change? i though it is a 75-80% water change after the tank is cycled to keep the nitrate around 20mg/L or lower.



SinCrisis said:


> like insects in the water?  someone else put up a thread a while back about underwater insects from their plants too. Could you post some pictures? I feel like ti would be such waste to toss out a good piece of driftwood. Try and see of you can remove the plant and wash that thoroughly and boil the driftwood and then replant the plant in the driftwood. Tie it down onto the wood and it should start growing into the wood again. as for the snails, if you can see them, crush them and they will die. Snails have huge water content so they rot super fast in a tank. Right now, since they are small, their rotting bodies wont affect your water parameters by much, and since you are cycling it will probably help your tank. Just crush em whenever you see em. If they are small they wont be able to breed for a while.


It was underwater insects and i really hate ugly looking insects (had bad experiences with insects many time before XS) so i threw the wood away already and didn't bother to take napshot of wat kind of insect it was. 



Byron said:


> Following this thread, two observations. First the snails, if cone shaped they are probably Malaysian Livebearers, very good snails (in most aquarist's opinion). These and the common pond snail that someone mentioned in an earlier post are not problematic; they find uneaten food that even fish can't find, eat algae (limited), and the Malaysian snails burrow through the substrate keeping it healthy by eating food down there and keeping the gravel from compacting, thereby allowing water and oxygen to circulate; they are generally a sign of a healthy environment. They multiply obviously, provided food is available. Don't overfeed, keep the water clean (weekly partial water changes with light gravel vacuuming) and they shouldn't be a problem. If there are more than you want, just pick them out.
> 
> Second, the insects from the wood. About the only way this could happen would be if the wood sat on the shelf in the store and some insect made a home in it. Boiling it is water for 30 minutes should solve this, and also remove much of the tannins making it perfect for your tank.


I don't really like snail because they can hurt the plants in my tank and they can crawl out of the tank and which is really dirty so i rather not having any snail at all. ( my tank don't have a hood yet)

I got the wood out of a tank at my lfs and im pretty sure the insects are underwater insect cause they didn't crawl out of the wood until i take the wood out and put it in a dry bowl. They are white and there were smaller than a grain of rice. They didn't do good without water either, they were dead after a few hours without water.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Nephelie said:


> what is "reseed" mean? do 25-30 water change? i though it is a 75-80% water change after the tank is cycled to keep the nitrate around 20mg/L or lower.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are not "insects" as such, they are aquatic, possibly cyclops or planarians--a photo would probably allow someone here to identify them. Fish find these things wonderful food (depending upon what it is of course) and I doubt they could ever leave the water. [If you knew the number of mostly invisible things that live in your aquarium you might be surprised; it is after all a small eco-system from nature.] And snails in my experience will never crawl out of the tank. And they do not eat plants, that is an old myth that several others on this forum have frequently discounted. I have quite a number of pond snails and Malaysian snails in both my aquaria and no signs of any eaten plant leaves. But having said all this, it is your aquarium and you're the one to decide what is or isn't in it, and I respect that; but I think it's important for you and all of us to understand these things so we can make good decisions.

And to answer your question on what "reseed" means, it is adding ammonia (food) to the filter for the bacteria (nitrosomonas bacteria) to feed on and continue to exist and multiply. This is important in a fishless cycle because nitrosomonas bacteria will only continue to live if they have ammonia to consume and convert to nitrite; without ammonia the nitrosomonas bacteria will die off, so you have to continue adding some. Those of us who use fish to cycle a new tank have a constant supply of ammonia from the fish.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Byron said:


> Those are not "insects" as such, they are aquatic, possibly cyclops or planarians--a photo would probably allow someone here to identify them. Fish find these things wonderful food (depending upon what it is of course) and I doubt they could ever leave the water. [If you knew the number of mostly invisible things that live in your aquarium you might be surprised; it is after all a small eco-system from nature.] And snails in my experience will never crawl out of the tank. And they do not eat plants, that is an old myth that several others on this forum have frequently discounted. I have quite a number of pond snails and Malaysian snails in both my aquaria and no signs of any eaten plant leaves. But having said all this, it is your aquarium and you're the one to decide what is or isn't in it, and I respect that; but I think it's important for you and all of us to understand these things so we can make good decisions.
> 
> And to answer your question on what "reseed" means, it is adding ammonia (food) to the filter for the bacteria (nitrosomonas bacteria) to feed on and continue to exist and multiply. This is important in a fishless cycle because nitrosomonas bacteria will only continue to live if they have ammonia to consume and convert to nitrite; without ammonia the nitrosomonas bacteria will die off, so you have to continue adding some. Those of us who use fish to cycle a new tank have a constant supply of ammonia from the fish.


Good post! very informative, seriously, i didn't know that, i always hear around and though that snails will eat ur plants, such and such. The insects are another thing tho, i really hate them so i rather not having them in my tank. Anyway, can i just reseed using the fish after my tank is cycle because i couldn't find pure ammonia at my local so that why i turn to frozen shrimps in the first place.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

i believe ramshorns are bad for your plants. I have MTS myself and they are wonderful, but a bit ugly, some have said that they are beautiful but i guess the ones i got arent. Also the only snail ive had that crawled out of a tank is an apple snail. Pond snails and other "pest" snails cant retain enough water to continually crawl across a dry surface so they dont leave the water. Ive ahd pond snails before also and they were entertaining to keep. However, once matured, i realized that they had eggs everywhere and that if i ever wanted to remove them, it was going to be a ton of work so i generally recommend others removing them unless they are sure they want them in their tank. Pond snails will nibble on soft plants but prefers dead or dying plants. If you drop anotehr shrimp into your tank when you ahve snails, theres a good chance they will be attracted to it so if you wake up and see a bunch of snails on it, just remove it and oyu would have removed a bunch of snails at once. Some people use this method as traps to control snail populations.


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## adiumroot (Apr 13, 2009)

Nephelie said:


> what is "reseed" mean? do 25-30 water change? i though it is a 75-80% water change after the tank is cycled to keep the nitrate around 20mg/L or lower.


By "reseeding" I mean that you can put in more filter media or gravel from an established tank. (assuming you did so when you first started cycling). It's to quicken up your cycling time by shortening the nitrite spike. Nitrite-eating bacteria multiply much slower than their ammonia-consuming counterparts so a second dosing of matured media introduces more of these nitrite-eaters to reduce your nitrite levels.

Edit: I see byron answered the question already. I guess that can be called "reseeding" too. Sometimes terms can have different meanings so it's confusing. Anyways, I hope you get what I meant. Oh, and I only do a 25-30% water change before adding fish because I cycle with plants, and they help in consuming nitrates.


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## Blaxicanlatino (Jan 28, 2008)

when are you posting pics? im getting ready to aquascape mine soon as i graduate! hows it coming along?


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Blaxicanlatino said:


> when are you posting pics? im getting ready to aquascape mine soon as i graduate! hows it coming along?



As soon as i complete my tank, that mean im fully stock my tank then i will post some picture of how it final stage look like. Anyway, this is weird, some of my cabomba main body shrink like a string. Any idea wat happen here?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Nephelie said:


> As soon as i complete my tank, that mean im fully stock my tank then i will post some picture of how it final stage look like. Anyway, this is weird, some of my cabomba main body shrink like a string. Any idea wat happen here?


Assuming you mean the leaves fell off the cabomba, it is probably due to lack of adequate light and/or nutrients. Cabomba is a stem plant, which means it grows as a single stem that produces leaves and small roots all along it, as opposed to a rooted plant which would have a group of leaves arising from the root system at the crown, similar to common houseplants. Stem plants grow very fast, and therefore require nutrients and light greater than most of the rooted plants. I have never had good luck with cabomba, because I don't have enough light (and if I were to provide more light, CO2 would be needed, and I'm not going to fuss with that).


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

nephelie, You need to buy the aquarium hood because that side lamp you're using is not enough. When you get bulbs note wattage and spectrum. I have kept a group of cabomba in a 5 gallon before, and my light to gallons ratio was around 4 watts per gallon. They grow super fast and I had to trim them once every 2 weeks to keep them from growing too much. Once you get the right hood, you will need to trim them too, a 10 gallon is too shallow for these plants.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

agreed!


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

I got the watt for the light bulb, its a 24 watt light bulb so i think it should be fine with the tank. But the cabomba is not doing so good rite now. The leaves are getting brown-gray-ish and the stem is shrinking. I think it dying. T.T I wait another week and see how it goes.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

i think it will be gone for sure by next week...


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> i think it will be gone for sure by next week...


Don't be so negative yo! (close my eye and cross my finger hoping for miracle now) XD. I put down a few seeds for live plants i bough at Walmart and one of them is spouting now.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

beware, walmart sometimes sells seeds for aquatic plants that are bog plants and those die after 2-6 months if fully submerged. Petsmart and petco also sell plants like that too. its gets gross and mushy. Are you talking about the light bulb from that lamp? cuz thats not how wattage for your tank works... The way ur lamp is set up wont put all the wattage into ur tank. From the picture before id say u got less than .4 watts per gallon with that lamp. You will need a proper hood that dedicated most of its light to the tank.

I hate to be a pessimist and rain on your parade but its gonna take a bit more moeny and research on your part to really get your tank off the ground. how are your water parameters?


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> beware, walmart sometimes sells seeds for aquatic plants that are bog plants and those die after 2-6 months if fully submerged. Petsmart and petco also sell plants like that too. its gets gross and mushy. Are you talking about the light bulb from that lamp? cuz thats not how wattage for your tank works... The way ur lamp is set up wont put all the wattage into ur tank. From the picture before id say u got less than .4 watts per gallon with that lamp. You will need a proper hood that dedicated most of its light to the tank.
> 
> I hate to be a pessimist and rain on your parade but its gonna take a bit more moeny and research on your part to really get your tank off the ground. how are your water parameters?


T.T my cabomba died! Imma get a hood with proper lights once i have money. 

I test my water today, its progressing.

PH 8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 5
Nitrate 5

How long do u guys think until i get my tank cycled?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

a bit longer, certainly getting there though. I believe the gouramis are hardy enough to put in if you were still getting those sparkling gouramis. They may be stressed a little but i feel like your very excited about ctually stocking your tank. One other note, i beleive gouramis, like bettas breathe air, so just an interesting fact.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> a bit longer, certainly getting there though. I believe the gouramis are hardy enough to put in if you were still getting those sparkling gouramis. They may be stressed a little but i feel like your very excited about ctually stocking your tank. One other note, i beleive gouramis, like bettas breathe air, so just an interesting fact.



Yup, im very excited and can't wait to stock my tank but i can be patient. I just wait till my tank cycled then i get the fish. Do i add all the fish in the same day or the first 3 in the first day and the last 3 in the 2nd day?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The mention of sparkling gouramis causd me to check back through the posts and I note these fish, guppies, shrimp and maybe an otto mentioned. I believe others on this forum have indicated shrimp are OK in new tanks, and once cycled you'll have no problem with guppies (if you get a female watch out, they are livebearers and you will have babies by the dozens and females can be impregnated very early). But the sparkling gouramis are delicate (I've kept them, very lovely fish) so I wouldn't add them until the tank is not only cycled but matured (after 3 months). Same for the otto, they frequently die in new tanks. Also, they are shoaling fish and will always fare better (more likely to adjust and live) if kept in a small group; 3 or more is best. But they need algae on which to graze, especially when first introduced into a tank; without it ottos seem to die off.

When you're ready to add fish, do it slowly. For example, the three guppies one day, wait a few days, then add say a pair of sparkling gouramis, wait a few days, etc. Once the tank is "cycled" it is cycled for what is in it now, that is, the level of ammonia being produced each day. The nitrosomonas bacteria live in the number required to consume the ammonia, then the nitrobacter bacteria do the same for the level of nitrite. Without ammonia (or nitrite) the bacteria will die off, and if more ammonia is introduced, they multiply to handle it, but not immediately. In a biologically established aquarium (one that is "matured" after a few months), new ammonia (from new fish, dying plant matter, a dead fish, overfeeding) can be handled if the increase is not great so the bacteria have time to multiply accordingly. But having too much ammonia added at once will cause a mini-cycle and stress the fish.

One more thought on the sparkling gouramis, they love plants. I can't remember if plants were mentioned in this thread (10 pages of posts is a lot to sift through) but they would be good in a tank with these little gems, and the more plants the better they feel as they are timid by nature. Also, keep the tank well covered; they breathe air as someone mentioned, and the air should be kept warm and moist which will occur with a normal tank cover.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

oh i didnt know sparkling gouramis were delicate... Ive never had them before but ive had other gouramis and never had any problems introducing them a couple of days ahead of the end of my cycle. Anyway, hood and cover should be among the first things you want to buy on your shopping list. Again i would recommend agains thte oto since they dont really do well singularly. Shrimp are excellent, lots of fun to watch and small bioload. But question what has become of your snail problem? Were you able to get rid of them or did you decide on keeping them?


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> oh i didnt know sparkling gouramis were delicate... Ive never had them before but ive had other gouramis and never had any problems introducing them a couple of days ahead of the end of my cycle. Anyway, hood and cover should be among the first things you want to buy on your shopping list. Again i would recommend agains thte oto since they dont really do well singularly. Shrimp are excellent, lots of fun to watch and small bioload. But question what has become of your snail problem? Were you able to get rid of them or did you decide on keeping them?



No more snails, i took out the drift wood and threw em away so no snails in my tank. Yeah, i probably getting a hood and a light in a few days. Any1 know the cost for these, cause im kinda having a little financial crisis rite now. I need to do some calculations with wat i'll buy.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

Byron said:


> The mention of sparkling gouramis causd me to check back through the posts and I note these fish, guppies, shrimp and maybe an otto mentioned. I believe others on this forum have indicated shrimp are OK in new tanks, and once cycled you'll have no problem with guppies (if you get a female watch out, they are livebearers and you will have babies by the dozens and females can be impregnated very early). But the sparkling gouramis are delicate (I've kept them, very lovely fish) so I wouldn't add them until the tank is not only cycled but matured (after 3 months). Same for the otto, they frequently die in new tanks. Also, they are shoaling fish and will always fare better (more likely to adjust and live) if kept in a small group; 3 or more is best. But they need algae on which to graze, especially when first introduced into a tank; without it ottos seem to die off.
> 
> When you're ready to add fish, do it slowly. For example, the three guppies one day, wait a few days, then add say a pair of sparkling gouramis, wait a few days, etc. Once the tank is "cycled" it is cycled for what is in it now, that is, the level of ammonia being produced each day. The nitrosomonas bacteria live in the number required to consume the ammonia, then the nitrobacter bacteria do the same for the level of nitrite. Without ammonia (or nitrite) the bacteria will die off, and if more ammonia is introduced, they multiply to handle it, but not immediately. In a biologically established aquarium (one that is "matured" after a few months), new ammonia (from new fish, dying plant matter, a dead fish, overfeeding) can be handled if the increase is not great so the bacteria have time to multiply accordingly. But having too much ammonia added at once will cause a mini-cycle and stress the fish.
> 
> One more thought on the sparkling gouramis, they love plants. I can't remember if plants were mentioned in this thread (10 pages of posts is a lot to sift through) but they would be good in a tank with these little gems, and the more plants the better they feel as they are timid by nature. Also, keep the tank well covered; they breathe air as someone mentioned, and the air should be kept warm and moist which will occur with a normal tank cover.


any suggestion on what easy plants i should keep in my tank?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

java moss or java fern for now. Nothing fancy till later when you have a proper light as for hoods, just look around on Pet Supplies | Dog & Cat Supplies, Pet Meds | DrsFosterSmith.com Pet Products or look at your local petco if they have any


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I second SinCrisis. Without a proper full spectrum fluorescent light, you won't have any luck with plants. But Java Fern and Java Moss do seem to survive in anything. But get the light and plants before you buy the gouramis; fish will always settle in better to new surroundings that are more to their liking and the plants will make them feel "secure".


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Once Javamoss becomes established, it will grow very quickly and take over parts of your tank. Keep an eye on it. Java fern will die a little at first, many leaves will turn brown and black and just stay there. Those are rotting leaves and Java Fern leaves rot very slowly. You will need to trim those. Lastly, java fern, once matured, will spawn babies like crazy, both java plants do well in low light. If you go with a low lgiht tank, i would also suggest duckweed as a floating plant. It grows like crazy and does a super excellent job of keeping nitrates low. However, it blocks off light to the bottom of the tank. Fish like the shade, also adds to the secure but will prevent you from keeping any high light plants.the cracks between the duckweed plants also adds a cool effect to your gravel, Just a though. Otherwise, medium slow growing plants like coffeloia, fi you can find it, do well and are pretty hardy.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

So.. any news? Your tank should be just about cycled let us know how the tank is developing.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

My tank have cycled two days ago and i went to buy 3 guppies to put in my tank but i was too busy with my lil bro graduation, i didn't have time to post and upload the pics like i said. Anyway, i was so happy when i saw my Nitrite test is 0, in fact, i tested Nitrite first. Here is a pic with of completion. Does anybody know what happen to this fish or how to cure this?










Here is a pic of all the fish i have in there now. 










One weird thing that getting me worry is one of my guppy tail is fading and it lost all of it color. The only thing i can see now is the bone in the tail. I don't think this little fella will last long. T.T












PS: Special Thanks to all the people who post in this thread and help me start my tank and give me a better knowledge about fishless cycle. Thank you!


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

wait nitrite should always be 0 shouldnt it? nitrate is what shoulda become 0 and then when you have fish it should be under 40 ppm. The fade in color could be because its a diffrent enviroment for the fish. OTherwise its the diet your feeding them. RIcher diets willa chieve brighter colors.


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## Nephelie (May 18, 2009)

SinCrisis said:


> wait nitrite should always be 0 shouldnt it? nitrate is what shoulda become 0 and then when you have fish it should be under 40 ppm. The fade in color could be because its a diffrent enviroment for the fish. OTherwise its the diet your feeding them. RIcher diets willa chieve brighter colors.



Nitrite is at 0 and nitrate is under 20. The faded color guppy just died. T.T it was very bad, all its color is faded before it died, even it body. Other guppies starting to show it too. What should i do?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

the color fade is usually caused by stress. It means something is stressing them. Dose a little bit of stress coat, itll help them a bit, are they eating? and what temperature is your water? should be between 76-80. ALso post the rest of your water parameters, the ph, ammonia.


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