# Fish randomly dying, not sure why



## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

My wife and I have a 20G freshwater tank setup. I added the water and the water clarifier with the tank and let it cycle that I'd say for about a week. Then my wife went to Petco, and purchased a few fish (I originally wanted glowfish and the little ones with glowing stripes, but they didn't have any, so she came home with 4 black mollies, 4 of these angelfish little guys, 2 swordtails, 2 of these white fish, and 2 of these larger orange guys. Sorry, she doesn't know the names either.

Anyways,

after adding them, next day, one black molly was dead. Figured it was the shock... then one of the larger orange guys was having problems swimming properly, was stuck in a plant at one point and just never recovered. It appeared he might have been also bullied by the one swordtail. Then two different days the white guys died. Another black one died this morning and I swear when I turned the light on the tank this morning, both swordtails were swimming around, but then I looked and saw one of them dead. Could the sudden light turn on have killed him? What would have killed the others?

All of these fish were swimming around the night before pretty good. They're eating tropical flakes and all. I don't see any sort of skin discoloration to them. I have one big "fake" tree log in the middle for them to swim in and out of, some grass throughout, a filter, and an air pump since they needed more oxygen in the tank.

I tested the ammonia level the other night with the Ammonia Quick Dip by Jungle and it appeared to come up normal. Honestly, I was told not to worry about pH but more so ammonia. I was also told I didn't need to add any sort of bacteria to the water. We live in Hawaii and the tank temperature is constantly around the 77-78 F mark. How often does the light above the tank need to be on?

What am I missing here. I know I'm new to this and thought we were doing everything right, but what's my next step?

As of right now, all the other fish are swimming around fine. None of the angelfish little guys have died... maybe theyre more hardier?

Thanks!
Matt


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

wow so much to throw out there for information... but lets go slow ...
1st your tank was not cycled in a week (that was just bad information yo received) here is a good link http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

read that first

2nd way to much stock way to fast.... here is another good read http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/basic-guide-freshwater-fish-stocking-38626/

hope this info starts you off good and others will jump in shortly to help also Good luck and welcome to TFK!!!!!!!!


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Yeah that tank is not cycled. I would suggest taking all the fish back and doing a fishless cycle. The angels for example are not likely to survive the cycle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks for the quick responses. I really appreciate it. 

Just some other questions then:

Is it right to just test for ammonia levels, or should I have a strip that tests for everything?

How often do the fish need the light above the tank on?

Thanks again,
Matt


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

personally i hate strip tests they can go bad very fast and often the moisture in the air will alter the reading on you. i would get a good drip test kit (i like API) and go with that at first you sold test for PH, nitrate and nitrite, dKH and after you determine your water type it will be easier to determine what you need for conditioner, what fish will thrive well in your water type and if you are attempting to alter the water to accommodate a specific type of fish you can look at methods to do that as naturally as possible.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Welcome Matt and Wife! We're so glad you found us! First let me tell you that every one of us in here has been in your shoes and lost new fish!! Second shame on the LFS Local Fish Store for giving you bad advice on two things. Yes you need bacteria, and selling you all those fish that would upset any established bacteria load. 
So... a lot of things have been covered already, and you are going to read, read, read... right? I'm going to touch on a couple of basics not yet discussed, you may already know of some of this but just in case.
Your fish yes have suffered from shock and it comes in different ways but is quick. 
All water needs de-chlorinator/conditioner to remove chlorine, every bucket, every water change. You will be doing minimum 20-30% weekly water changes, unless other issues arise, but this is basic care. Get a calender and write down what you do on what day, as time goes by and you forget when you last did something, or added someone to the tank. 
Get a thermometer if you don't have one. Every bucket added must match the tank temperature. 
Get a Liquid test kit as metioned in the previous post.
Test weekly at the least before and after your water change. Know your numbers always for ammonia and NI and NA.
When you have cycled the tank, and have good bacteria or bio load, (6-8 weeks) then you can add fish slowly. Even a large tank like mine at 75Gal , I cannot just go get 15 fish and add them, as the bio load is not sufficient to support that much of a change, and fish will die. 
When new fish are added, float the bag in the water for 30-45 minutes and dribble littles amounts of TANK water into the bags every 5 minutes or so. You will equalize the temps and also acclimate the fish to any change in PH. We do not recommend changing the PH but it is important to know what kind of fish do best in what PH. Eg, my 8.2 PH in Ontario would kill Discus that need 6.5 - 7. so I have to look at African Cichlids or something locally raised in my area's water and slowly blend them over entry time. 
When the time is up, you should have doubled the water in the bag and net the fish to put them in. 
Lighting is important because fish need a natural fluctuation of light just like we do. As natural as possible. Get a inexpensive timer / power bar for your tank and set it to generally no more than 8 hours of light. Light can raise the tank temperature excessively, and cause huge amounts of algae. Setting the timer means less chance to overdo it. If you like to watch your fish till 11pm then set it to come on 3 pm, off at 11, and the rest of the time it just gets ambient light. 
When you do finally add more fish do so 2 ish at a time. do it slowly as you currently do not have the good bacteria present. You need to keep building the good bacteria to support that many fish. 
So lots to learn. Ask lots of questions! and after 15 posts come look for others in the chat room where we can talk live. Good Luck.


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks again for the input. 

We are heading out tomorrow to get a liquid test kit (what specific one is recommended)? 

Also with a 20G tank, how many fish can we house comfortably without cramping or having them fight once the tank is properly cycled?

Also, what brand bacteria should I be looking into adding to the tank?

We did add clarifier/dechlorinator to the tank to let it cycle within the first week. When I mean cycle, I'm just referring to it filtering through the pump.


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## brownmane (Jan 7, 2011)

Just a quick (but important) clarification for you regarding the "cycle", it is in reference to the biological maturing of the tank. I'm new to tropical fish as well, but the cycle that everyone is referring to is the ammonia being produced and peaking, then nitrites being produced and peaking, and finally nitrates being established in the tank. This whole cycle takes several weeks (month to 6 weeks) for the water to be safe for fish. There is a lot of good information on this site to better explain to you exactly what "cycling the tank" means. It is not in reference to the water being pumped through the system.

Don't give up. It's difficult to have fish die on you, but the more you learn, the better you will be able to take care of your fish.

Welcome.


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

After the reading of that cycling article, I better understood it. I'm learning more than ever. I remember in the past as a kid, I had goldfish, but you know how those guys do when watched for by kids.


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## brownmane (Jan 7, 2011)

Yep.


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## Blabomb (Jan 30, 2011)

Also if you are having trouble keeping your water healthy consider adding plants to your tank. They will help create a very healthy tank


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

but dont live plants need special lighting to stay alive?


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## Blabomb (Jan 30, 2011)

Ummm yes and no. They need more than your regular incandescent "yellow" lights but the bulbs they need are readily available at most hardware stores. They need the "white" lights with a kelvin rating of 6500+, I think? I am by no means an expert on plants at all so I would wait for Bryon or somebody else more knowledgeable with plants to help out here.


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm glad you read the article on cycling a tank - very important step. As you've seen, you can lose lots of fish in a non-cycled tank. 

As far as how many fish you can put in a 20g tank - in general, you can use one inch of adult fish to one gallon of water as a rule-of-thumb. However, some fish need more water than that, because of territorial needs, being more active, needing to live in a school of the same species, or whatever. I STRONGLY recommend that you know EXACTLY what kind of fish you have, what their species needs in terms of food, lighting, space, male to female ratio, etc. Check out fish info on this site and others on the internet about what you have, and if you discover that they won't be compatible in the long run, then either take them back to the store and exchange them for something compatible, or get another tank (or more) so you can house them appropriately. Then, before buying any more, do your research. 

As for lighting for plants - fluorescent bulbs are best; some say they are for aquariums and/or for plants, but they tend to be more expensive than necessary. Look for bulbs that say "daylight," or "sunlight" or "full spectrum" on them. They tend to have a bluish cast, sometimes obvious on the unlit bulb, sometimes only visible when lit and in comparison to the yellowish light of incandescent bulbs. By the way, thanks to cfl bulbs, you can use fluorescent bulbs in hoods intended for incandescent bulbs. 

Also, make sure your plants and your fish need similar lighting requirements. Some fish need low light, so if you're using live plants, you need low light plants, or if your plants need higher light level than your fish, provide places for them to get out of the light, like shelves, caves, etc.


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

Now that I think of it, the light I'm currently using is a Full Spectrum bulb and does have the bluish tint.

Thanks again for the replies and information.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

If you use compact flourescents in your house, then the 'blueish' onces are the color you need for light.

I wouldn't stress about plants, you can just do daily 30% water changes and that SHOULD keep ammonia down. 

To monitor cycling, you'll need to test for nitrites and ammonia at the minimum. When both appear, and disappear, you're all cycled.

You should probably buy a good liquid test kit though... They run about $35 or so but will last you years and years.


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

Ok so got those liquid test kits. Did a water change today (20-30%), added tap water conditioner to the new water and let it sit overnight. Made sure the water temp was the same as tank, which it was. 2 fish have died since. Measured both my Nitrate and Ammonia levels. Nitrate is great at 0, but my Ammonia was high like 1.0-2.0. I just added some Ammonia Safe from Tetra and a shortwhile after added some StressZyme (live bacteria).

How long should I wait to test for ammonia again after I have put the ammonia safe stuff in the tank?

Oh and for the past couple days, the fish were doing great, so to have 2 die today, would this be stress from the water change, or both that and the high ammonia levels?

Thanks
Matt


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

dizark said:


> Ok so got those liquid test kits. Did a water change today (20-30%), added tap water conditioner to the new water and let it sit overnight. Made sure the water temp was the same as tank, which it was. 2 fish have died since. Measured both my Nitrate and Ammonia levels. Nitrate is great at 0, but my Ammonia was high like 1.0-2.0. I just added some Ammonia Safe from Tetra and a shortwhile after added some StressZyme (live bacteria).
> 
> How long should I wait to test for ammonia again after I have put the ammonia safe stuff in the tank?
> 
> ...


i would say the high amonia levels ....were it me personally i would not add any chemicals to the tank as they typically just hide the issue and your test will come up false... i wold continue to do water changes daily until you see the levels drop. (NOTE: depending on the conditioner you use you may be able to use the water right away or with in a half hour.. leaving the water out over night wont do much for you .. that is a method used to avoid conditioner)


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

I am using API Tap Water Conditioner. What do you think is a good waiting time. I know I should wait for the water to reach room temperature, and match that of the tank. If I did a 20-30% change yesterday, what should I change today?


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

with the API i would only wait about 5 minutes or so realy.. i would stay at 30% ... if you use a thermometer you can set your water temp to match with out having to wait .. you can get a food quality digital at walmart for like $10 and be good to go////


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

Well, I have a thermometer to measure the water in my bucket so i can verify the correct temp before adding it. So adding that conditioner to the water works within 5 minutes? Has it had a chance to mix?


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

Also, are you recommending using the vaccuum to siphon the water out while cleaning the gravel like I did yesterday, or just scooping the water out?


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

i would use the vac to be sure your getting any left over food and such... if you add the prim to the bucket as you fill it will mix while the bucket fills....


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## dizark (Mar 10, 2011)

Ok great, just did the water change. How long should I wait before testing the ammonia levels again? Do I need to wait for the water to mix around properly?


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