# Oranda bit of more than it could chew - Help!



## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi all, 

My Oranda seems to get a bit 'floaty' when we feed her flakes. we vary her diet between Sera flakes, Tetra Fin orange ball things and then a pea every 3-4 days. This seems to keep her in check. 

When i feed a pea I usually break it up into small bit-sized chunks but i recently found out that my girlfriend was feeding the whole pea... when you remove the skin form the pea, it's in two halves... she's been dropping the two halves straight in. 

My Oranda is only young and still very small... she's about 4 1/2 - 5cm body and she's got a half a pea stuck in her mouth.

She has been a little more sluggish recently and spending more time just sat at the bottom of the tank and then i was have a look at her and noticed the half a pea. 

What shall i do?? 

Will she spit it out? 

I feed her once a day and give her 1-2 flakes and about 3-4 little orangey pellets.... is that too much for a little oranda?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

First off, welcome to the forum! We'll do everything we can to get your little oranda back on track. 

You should switch her food away from flakes as they are notorious for giving fancy goldfish trouble with digestion. The New Life Spectrum pellets are the best pellets. You could try her on those first, but if she doesn't get better then you can try making gel food. I've got a few recipes, but try the NLS first. Garlic guard is good as it contains a little more garlic which will entice her to eat. 

The next thing I'm going to ask for is the water parameters and tank parameters. We need pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and hardness if you can get it. Physical size of the tank and specs of the filter are also good. Bottom-sitting isn't a good sign. Food is probably part of the problem, but we also want to eliminate environmental factors, too.


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi there Izzy, 

Thank you for the warm welcome and for the swift response. 
I have completely fallen in love with my fish (although it’s been a rocky road in a short period of time) which I will explain in a larger post shortly. 

I’m worried for my Oranda because she’s got half a pea in her mouth that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere and seems to inhibit her ability to eat additional food. 
I’m going to fast her for a couple of days and see how she gets on but can you recommend how to get it out? 

I will definitely move away from the food that I currently have. 
I’m using Sera flakes and Tetrafin little orangey pellet things. 

The water parameters as of the last test were pH 7.6, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10

The tank is 10 US GAL / 38 Litres 

The filter is a Hush Elite 20 38-170 Gal tank hang-on filter 

This is my usual routine.
Water change every 7 days.
I change approx. 1/3rd of the water and add Stress Zyme and Stress Coat
Between water changes I does with Stress Zyme and Stress Coat
I’ve recently changed the carbon cartridge after 8 weeks of use with the previous one. 

I have a 153 Litre / 40 Gal tank ready to move into but my flat is currently too small so that’s why the small tank. 

Mona (my Oranda) is currently about 4.5 – 5cm in length and she’s probably 4 months old. 

Is there anything else you need? 

Thank you so much!!!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Well the good news is a pea is a lot easier to get out than a pebble (which is another thing that can get lodged in a goldfish's throat). At this point fasting is a great idea if only because your fish will be very stressed in the next few days (it's also a good idea to do before a food change). 

The bad news is you are going to have to handle little Mona. I understand if you are uncomfortable with it, but the only way to make sure that the pea gets out before it causes any more trouble. This goes a lot easier with two people. One person holds the fish with the gills under water. The other uses a pair of blunt-nose tweezers to gently remove the pea. After you are done with this, it's a good idea to turn off her tank light and leave the room for a while to let her recover from the stress. Do let us know how this goes. 

Your setup sounds pretty good. It's great that you have a larger tank for Mona in the future. Most people don't realize just how big goldfish can get. And in the 40 gal tank you can get Mona a friend! I would recommend up-ing the amount of water you change weekly to 50%. With growing fish you want to make sure the water stays a little cleaner.


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi Izzy,

what precautions will we need to take before we handle Mona? Do we need to wash our hands with soap or anything? would surgical gloves be a good idea? 

Also, is there any chance that she may get rid of it on her own? 

Thanks so much Izzy 

I will make sure that I up the changed water too!!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

When I've had to handle my fish, I wash my hands in rubbing alcohol first and then rinse them for about a minute in warm/hot water (but don't burn yourself!). Soap isn't good for fish and can actually poison them. 

Surgical gloves have talcum powder in them, right? I don't think that would be a good idea. Bare hands are just fine unless you've put lotion on them recently. Plus, I've always found I have a better grip with bare hands than with any gloves. 

There is a chance she will spit it out or pass it on her own as it's not a rock. If you can see it right now, I would certainly try to grab it. If her mouth looks extended like she is holding something in it, that's another good indicator that you should try this. Unfortunately I can't see her and can't make that final call. I wish you and little Mona the best of luck.


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

HI again Izzy,

she does't look like she's got her mouth open all the time but sometime she does what looks like a big yawn and that's when we see the half-a-pea in her mouth. 

she does look quite well considering and still quite spritely but now and again she'll spend 10 minutes or so (perhaps longer at night) just sat at the bottom. 

she always perks up when we turn the light on and gets really energetic when we go to feed her. She's a lovely little fish and i just want to make sure she's ok really. 

I do have some blunt tweezers but mona's mouth is so small.. i'm worried about causing damage.... would fasting for a couple of days be a good start? 

I'll try to get some photo's a little later. 

Thanks again for all your help!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I forgot just how small a half pea is. My monsters can gulp a whole pea in a single bite. Blunt-nose tweezers might be just a bit too big. You could also use the blunt end of a bobby pin to try to coax it out. 

Those big yawns are her trying to clear what is in her mouth out. Since it is a pea, it could decompose enough to be able to move one way or the other. Do her gills look like they are moving? Is water getting over them? If so, then it might be best to try to wait it out since her mouth doesn't look like it's protruding. She might be able to work it out on her own. 

Either way, fasting is a great place to start. She might get hungry enough to try to eat that pea. A good rule of thumb for feeding goldfish is nothing larger than one of their eyes. That's about the amount of food they (especially the fancies) can hold in their digestive tracts at a time.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

I really hope Mona gets better! 
I've had to deal with fish "surgeries" it feels very daunting!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Something I forgot in my sleepiness last night: peas are actually not that great for goldfish. They are full of sugary carbs and shouldn't constitute a major part of the diet (they're fine as a treat). Blanched spinach is one of the best things for pushing food through the GI tract. It's also a great anti-inflammatory. If she does swallow the pea, feed her spinach. I like to blanch it, roll it into bite-sized pieces and then freeze it to help it stay together.


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hey Izzy, 

Well I've fasted my little Mona now for one day and will refrain from feeding her this evening and tomorrow evening but on Sunday if there's no change I will feed some blanched spinach. 

What I'm noticing is that she's spending a lot of time at the bottom of her tank - does this mean she's constipated and unable to properly control her swim-bladder? 

It definitely look like she has a harder time than normal to stay afloat... it looks like her little front fins are working harder to keep her from sinking. 

Being as she is such a small fish and my blunt tweezers are probably too big for her mouth... is a bobby pin the best method for extracting it? 

I'm definitely worried :-( 

When it comes to feeding her (again keeping in mind that she's on a very small fish) what is the usual recommended amount that I should feed her? 

Thanks Izzy!


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi again Izzy (and anyone else) 

Would if my fish is experiencing some digestive issues, would Melafix be a good idea to treat for 7 days with? 
I am going to fast for 2-3 days and then I’m thinking of feeding some blanched spinach but I think my fish needs to pass… if you know what I mean. 

Thanks very much! 

Rich


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Spending a lot of time at the bottom of the tank isn't indicative of one specific thing. It's generally a sign that the fish isn't feeling well. Kinda like when you feel tired and worn down; it's not going to point to a specific disease, but it is a sign that something's not right with your body. 

Now this taken with the pea problem could mean constipation. Is she still yawning? Can you see the pea? If she's swallowed it I would bet money that she's constipated. In that case spinach is great to help her pass it. If she won't eat, then fasting is the next best option. The pea could be pressing on her swim bladder and be making it harder for her to control it; this often happens with constipation. If this happens too many times her swim bladder can have permanent damage. 

I would not use Melafix in this situation. When actually fighting bacterial or fungal infections it's best to go for the heavy stuff right away instead of dancing around with remedies like Melafix and Pimafix. Also treating with these remedies when there isn't a confirmed infection can lead to resistant strains of the disease. 

As for how much you should be feeding her, small amounts multiple times daily. I have a young goldfish that I recently bought who gets fed 4-5 times a day, but very small amounts each time (roughly about the size of her eye or how much she could eat in a mouthful). This allows for the best absorption of nutrients. For older fish (over a year old) you want to feed them 1-2 times a day as they aren't using the protein for growth just maintenance.


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Izzy, 

Change in my tank... My little fishy Mona has now gone very floaty! 

I think the pea is now gone and about 5 hours earlier she was much more perky. She's a bit more mellow now and her dorsal fin is down a bit... I don't know whether to think that things are getting better or just changing.

On a slight side note today a load of small little white worn looking things have collected on the glass of my tank and some of the plants. They are really small... Like a grain of sand but I can see them moving. 

What do you suggest?

Thanks for all your support I'm eternally in your debt!!

Rich


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Last thing as well, when people mention that digestive that disrupt thw swim bladder can end up being permanent.... How long might it take for damage to be permanent? Are the chances quite high? Is it better or worse for a small and growing fish?

Thank you!!!


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Ok, 

Sorry for the barrage up further posts but something very strange just happened. 

My fish doesn't look amazingly happy.. Normally when she is her dorsal fin is very straight. It seems to be wilting a bit.. Not really clasped just a bit more limp than usual but the weirdest thing.... I just saw her throw up a big white globule of something and then quickly eat it back up. I couldn't really tell what it was but since the arrival of these little white sand sized worm/bug sort of things we decided to throw one of our plants away and it had a big white globule of something attached to the bottom....

Have you got any idea what may be going on with my poor little fish and my tank? 

She's not eaten anything now for a few years.. Today is day three. 

Many thanks

Rich


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Hi Rich, don't worry about posting a lot. You can only edit posts for so long, and if something new has happened we're going to need to know about it. 

I'm glad to hear that the pea is gone. Her having her dorsal fin down just means she isn't back to 100%. I don't really blame her. The pea ordeal has been pretty rough on her. 

Those little worm things are planaria. They appear when the tank is getting dirty. You mentioned a plant with a white glob on it. They could have been feeding on the dying plant. With goldfish you need to give the substrate a good vacuum either weekly or bi-weekly. They poop a lot, and excess poop in the substrate contributes to those worms. 

The real danger from digestive problems leading to swim bladder problems comes from many feedings. A single feeding or incident won't usually unless it was really traumatic. I don't think this particular incident will, but you should change her diet to pellets like New Life Spectrum. 

To me it sounds like she has her appetite back. Goldfish will sometimes spit out something when it isn't positioned correctly in their mouths. I'm not too sure how good it was for her to eat that white glob, but there isn't really much you can do to make her spit it out. I think a good substrate vacuum will help clean up any of that stuff left in the gravel. 

Also I do want to add that fish can go much longer without eating than warm-bloods like mammals can. Because fish don't have to expend the energy keeping their bodies at a constant temperate, they don't need as many calories as we (or cats or dogs) do. My goldfish are getting ready to go 5 days without food as I'm going on vacation and won't have anyone to feed them.


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hey izzy, 

Well this is what I've done.

I've now got rid of all the plants in the tank
I've given it a good clean onside the walls and cleared off any algae
I removed and took apart the filter giving it a good clean as it had quite a lt of gunk in it. 
I completed a 35% water change 
I fed her some blanched spinach 

She seems to be much better and the water in the tank looks great now although having checked the water parameters before I did all this, they did appear to be pretty good.
7.6 pH
0 Nitrite
0-0.1 ammonia 
10 Nitrate 

I'm now feeling much better about the situation and my fishy mona is looking so much better and much more stable... She seems to be in control of her swim bladder again. Thanks for all your advice Izzy.. I don't really trust my local fish shop so I always prefer to get the advice for people who genuinely care!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm really glad I could help! I have a love of goldfish and am always willing to lend all of my knowledge to someone else who cares for them as much as I do. It's great that little Mona is getting back to normal. You could have her for around 10 years. Many local fish stores just don't understand how to take care of goldfish. They're more difficult than most people think. 

If you're wondering about the ammonia spike, it happened to me when I removed all of my plants from goldfish tank. Also doing a complete clean of the filter with tap water (or any non-treated water) will kill some of the biological filter that makes up the nitrogen cycle. My filters get_ really_ dirty if I don't clean them for a week, too. But I make sure to clean the media in old tank water. I have a 5 gallon bucket that has never been used for anything but fish water, and I fill that with old tank water when doing a water change. I rinse off the filter media in that. It turns the water brown as teat, and it looks really nasty. But it's great for plants! And it preserves your bio-bugs!


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi Izzy,

I just thought i'd give you a bit of an update - Generally Mona is much better and we thing she's been much happier... that is until i fed her a flake yesterday and since then she's been really floaty. 

I'm going out shortly to pick up some of the NLS small fish pellets and completely stop from using the flakes. 

We don't think she's a huge fan of eating blanched spinach either which is a shame... is there anything you can suggest? 

But generally thank you so much for all your help we really think it helped to make her get better!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Flakes make my goldfish floaty, too. But I'm really glad that she's recovering well. My goldfish boys don't really like eating spinach that much either. I almost have to trick them into eating it. I hand-feed my guys so they are trained to come and eat from my fingers. I wave my hands over the tank like I'm getting ready to feed them at normal dinner time and instead of the normal dinner, I'll stick in a cube of spinach. Because they are so "excited" for dinner they scarf it up before they know what it is (kinda like tricking a kid into eating veggies). 

I've also found that cucumber is another goldfish favorite. I chop it up into bite-sized cubes and then freeze it. They go made for the stuff. Every once in a while when I have an orange, I'll cut up a slice and feed it to them. Kale, red lettuce, and collard greens are other good things to try. 

Since we know you have a floaty goldfish, you should avoid foods like broccoli and green beans. 

I'm really glad I could help you through this! Hopefully you'll have little (not for long!) Mona around for another 10 years. :-D


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