# Starting a Small Marine Tank... Advice?



## killavixen

Hello, My name is jodi!
I've decided to start an 8 gal saltwater tank. I currently have 2 inches of live sand, 4 1/2 lbs live rock, and i purchased water from lfs. All current reading are nitrate 0 nitrite o kh 300 ph 8.4 hydrometer 1.23 temp is 78F. And i have one Yellowtail Damsel to help cycle the tank.
I have a hang on power filter.
I plan to have add one of the following as a *permanent* resident, clownfish &/or orange goby with shrimp , pseudo fish. Eventually i would like to add some coral when coralline algae begins to grow. I dont have a light as of yet ( it blowed today) so i need a screw in light ( sugestions) I would love any advice to help me establish a healthy reef ecosystem. (please no bashing about tank size)


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## wake49

Welcome to the forum!

I won't bash your tank size, but be aware that pick tanks are very hard to keep. You must keep a constant eye on salinity, as evaporation can lead to large salinity swings in short periods of time. During hot summer days or cold winter nights, water can evaporate very quickly...

As far as the fish go, I think that tank is too small for a clownfish. Minimum tank size for a false perc is 20 gallon. Maybe a red banded high fin Goby and a pistol shrimp combo should be the only inhabitants. 

As far as coral goes, I would start with softies, and then once you feel comfortable with them start some LPS. I dont think SPS would be good in that tank because of the quick salinity swings and their sensitivity...

Get rid of the power filter. It's nothing but a nitrate factory. Get a good protein skimmer. And maybe find a new home for the damsel. It is going to outgrow that tank quickly. 

Sorry if I sound candid, but pico tanks are really difficult, even for aquarists with decades of experience. 

Keep us updated and don't forget pics!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> I won't bash your tank size, but be aware that pick tanks are very hard to keep. You must keep a constant eye on salinity, as evaporation can lead to large salinity swings in short periods of time. During hot summer days or cold winter nights, water can evaporate very quickly...
> 
> As far as the fish go, I think that tank is too small for a clownfish. Minimum tank size for a false perc is 20 gallon. Maybe a red banded high fin Goby and a pistol shrimp combo should be the only inhabitants.
> 
> As far as coral goes, I would start with softies, and then once you feel comfortable with them start some LPS. I dont think SPS would be good in that tank because of the quick salinity swings and their sensitivity...
> 
> Get rid of the power filter. It's nothing but a nitrate factory. Get a good protein skimmer. And maybe find a new home for the damsel. It is going to outgrow that tank quickly.
> 
> Sorry if I sound candid, but pico tanks are really difficult, even for aquarists with decades of experience.
> 
> Keep us updated and don't forget pics!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I def plan to rehome the damsel after cycling. I nedded a small hardy fish for the process. And i was wanting to get that really tiny clownfish, Ocellaris Clownfish i think its called... What is the problem with the filter? i cant quite afford the skimmer atm but i'm getting one in a month... the lfs was teeling me about the salinity so. I bought a hydrometer that gives constant readings


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## wake49

Hang on back, canister, wet/dry and internal filters all use filter pads to trap detritus. This accumulation of detritus results in elevated nitrate and phosphate levels. Elevated nitrates have a direct effect on alkalinity, which controls a waters ability to maintain its pH.

My method of filtration is 1-1/2 lbs of live rock per gallon, a deep sand bed (4-6" of oolite sand) and a protein skimmer. The deep sand bed and live rock provide anaerobic bacteria that turns nitrates into nitrogen gas (which leaves the system naturally). 

Ocellaris clownfish are false percs, the fish I mentioned that should be in a minimum 20 gallon tank. 

Because of the live rock and live sand in your tank, there is no need to use a fish to cycle the tank. Those two things provide your system with the necessary bacteria and the tank looks to be already cycled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Hang on back, canister, wet/dry and internal filters all use filter pads to trap detritus. This accumulation of detritus results in elevated nitrate and phosphate levels. Elevated nitrates have a direct effect on alkalinity, which controls a waters ability to maintain its pH.
> 
> My method of filtration is 1-1/2 lbs of live rock per gallon, a deep sand bed (4-6" of oolite sand) and a protein skimmer. The deep sand bed and live rock provide anaerobic bacteria that turns nitrates into nitrogen gas (which leaves the system naturally).
> 
> Ocellaris clownfish are false percs, the fish I mentioned that should be in a minimum 20 gallon tank.
> 
> Because of the live rock and live sand in your tank, there is no need to use a fish to cycle the tank. Those two things provide your system with the necessary bacteria and the tank looks to be already cycled.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So do i have enough live rock for my tank setup, and i only have 2" of sand until i can get a sifter, is this ok? And if i wash the filter is that enough to keep nitrates low until i can get a skimmer?


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## wake49

I would ditch the filter and just do water changes until you get the skimmer. 1 gallon every couple of days should be fine. 

I think you need about five more lbs of live rock. What do you mean by you "only have two inches of sand until [you] get a sifter"? Do you mean a sifting tool? Or a sand sifting creature?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> I would ditch the filter and just do water changes until you get the skimmer. 1 gallon every couple of days should be fine.
> 
> I think you need about five more lbs of live rock. What do you mean by you "only have two inches of sand until [you] get a sifter"? Do you mean a sifting tool? Or a sand sifting creature?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If i get a goby it will sift the sand, right?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> If i get a goby it will sift the sand, right?


Yes, certain gobies are sand sifters. If you go with a Deep Sand Bed in such a small aquarium, sand sifters will be detrimental to the proccess of denitrification. In the case of getting a sand-sifting creature such as goby, I think that the two inches of sand would be fine. But I do not think that the kind of Gobies (Watchman, Polaris) would be good for an 8 gallon tank. I think that a Yasha or a Red-banded High Fin Goby would be the only options for this tank...


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## killavixen

Check parameters today
Nitrate 0
Nitrtite 0.5
alkalinity 180
ph dropped 7.6 when added freshwater for evaporation...
How to fix the acidic water?

Ok instead of a goby, how about a Dwarf Zebra Hermit Crab as a sifter and for clean up?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Check parameters today
> Nitrate 0
> Nitrtite 0.5
> alkalinity 180
> ph dropped 7.6 when added freshwater for evaporation...
> How to fix the acidic water?
> 
> Ok instead of a goby, how about a Dwarf Zebra Hermit Crab as a sifter and for clean up?


What kind of sifter are you talking about? A sand-sfting star wouldn't be good, this tank is too small. The Zebra hermits (you could add 4-6 of them) and maybe a snail or two would be good as clean up.

What is your source water?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> What kind of sifter are you talking about? A sand-sfting star wouldn't be good, this tank is too small. The Zebra hermits (you could add 4-6 of them) and maybe a snail or two would be good as clean up.
> 
> What is your source water?


had to use tap for today, i added novaqua for chlorine and toxic metals. im goin to lfs tomorrow if they are open for some RO water. and i will get some zebra hermits and a snail. they should keep the sand stirred


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> had to use tap for today, i added novaqua for chlorine and toxic metals. im goin to lfs tomorrow if they are open for some RO water. and i will get some zebra hermits and a snail. they should keep the sand stirred


Good. Tap water can have minerals and metals in it that can be harmful to some invertebrates and corals, and water treatment such as Prime and Novaqua aren't really enough. Plus the minerals that are found in tapwater can throw off you alkalinity (a test kit you should pick up) and you can see violent pH swings (like the one you saw recently).

The zebra hermits and snails should do a good job aerating the substrate.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Good. Tap water can have minerals and metals in it that can be harmful to some invertebrates and corals, and water treatment such as Prime and Novaqua aren't really enough. Plus the minerals that are found in tapwater can throw off you alkalinity (a test kit you should pick up) and you can see violent pH swings (like the one you saw recently).
> 
> The zebra hermits and snails should do a good job aerating the substrate.


i have a test kit, just not ammonia tests


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> i have a test kit, just not ammonia tests


The best things to test for in a marine tank are Alkalinity and Calcium. These two tests are vital for the health and stability of your system. Do you have either of these test kits?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> The best things to test for in a marine tank are Alkalinity and Calcium. These two tests are vital for the health and stability of your system. Do you have either of these test kits?


OK so i need to gt a calcium test... have the alkaline test


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> have the alkaline test


 
I see this now in your first readings. Is that in ppm (parts per million)? The most common reading for Alkalinity is dKH, and 180 ppm this converts to 10 dKH and that is right where you want to be. But earlier in this thread your Alkalinity was at 300 ppm which converts to 16 dKH and that is a little high. Can you test that again and post the results?

Thanks


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> I see this now in your first readings. Is that in ppm (parts per million)? The most common reading for Alkalinity is dKH, and 180 ppm this converts to 10 dKH and that is right where you want to be. But earlier in this thread your Alkalinity was at 300 ppm which converts to 16 dKH and that is a little high. Can you test that again and post the results?
> 
> Thanks


Yes ppm
Now im worried, 
Nitrat 0
nitrite 1.0 
kh is between 80 & 120
Ph is 6.2 I need the ph corrected... can i do this with baking soda?


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## killavixen

yesterday the readings were 0 nitrite 0 nitrate kh 300 ph 8.4

today at 12:30 pm they were Nitrate 0
Nitrtite 0.5
alkalinity 180
ph 7.6


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## killavixen

I have some ro saltwater, should i do a water change to restore levels? If so, how much? or is baking soda better?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> I have some ro saltwater, should i do a water change to restore levels? If so, how much? or is baking soda better?


Are the lights on? You can experience pH swings with the lights off. 

Do a 50% water change since you have no inhabitants now. Give it a few hours then retest.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Are the lights on? You can experience pH swings with the lights off.
> 
> Do a 50% water change since you have no inhabitants now. Give it a few hours then retest.


lights are on
i still have the damsel


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> lights are on
> i still have the damsel


 
Forgot about him. They are very hardy though. 

Do a 25% change. If you do add baking soda, read this first:

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

It needs to be prepped. I don't like to add sodium bicarbonate without calcium though...


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Forgot about him. They are very hardy though.
> 
> Do a 25% change. If you do add baking soda, read this first:
> 
> An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
> 
> It needs to be prepped. I don't like to add sodium bicarbonate without calcium though...


I got tums lol Jk

But i did the 25% change with the ro saltwater. How many hours to wait to test again?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> But i did the 25% change with the ro saltwater. How many hours to wait to test again?


Give it two or three hours and post the results. I will try to keep an eye on the clock.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Give it two or three hours and post the results. I will try to keep an eye on the clock.


Just rechecked
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0.5
Alkalinity 120
Ph 7.8 
Is this better?


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## wake49

Looks a little better. Can you do another water change first thing in the morning?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Looks a little better. Can you do another water change first thing in the morning?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I should be able to do a very small change, im almost out of water. Also im afraid the damsel has been affected by the drop, the gills are red and he is turning colors, which i read can mean stress.


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## wake49

Can you post a pic? The stress might be elevated nitrite and ammonia levels. I wish you had an ammonia test. 

Forget the morning water change of the damsel is stressed. Post test results first thing in the am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Can you post a pic? The stress might be elevated nitrite and ammonia levels. I wish you had an ammonia test.
> 
> Forget the morning water change of the damsel is stressed. Post test results first thing in the am.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My camera broke... so i cant get any pics... all i can tell you is the scales over the gills looks very red. And the fish is a really light blue color, it doesnt "act" stressed per se but visually it showing the signs. SO test the water in the am?


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## wake49

Yeah. I want to see what they look like tomorrow. Wait until the light has been on for an hour or so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RSully

A few questions that haven't been asked. Was is true "cured live rock in your tank or dry base rock? If it was cured, you shouldn't be going through a cycle even being a bit under the recommended 1 to 1 1/2 pds per gallon. If it wasn't cured live rock, your going through a cycle and your damsel will not survive in a tank that size. There will be to many swings in your water parameters due to size.

Did you add the Damsel at start-up based on advice from your LFS? If so, find another LFS.

Do not add any other live stock until it's detemined that your tank is or isn't going through the cycling stage. Especially inverts.


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## wake49

True. Even "cured" live rock can "cycle" if the bacteria count wasn't high enough, or the trip out if water was too long. Since he was using aragamax live sand, the bacteria count should have been good enough to shorten the cycle to almost non-existant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

RSully said:


> A few questions that haven't been asked. Was is true "cured live rock in your tank or dry base rock? If it was cured, you shouldn't be going through a cycle even being a bit under the recommended 1 to 1 1/2 pds per gallon. If it wasn't cured live rock, your going through a cycle and your damsel will not survive in a tank that size. There will be to many swings in your water parameters due to size.
> 
> Did you add the Damsel at start-up based on advice from your LFS? If so, find another LFS.
> 
> Do not add any other live stock until it's detemined that your tank is or isn't going through the cycling stage. Especially inverts.


It is cured. It aleady had stuff growing on it when i bought it. Im going thruough cycle, my nitrites are going up. Nitrates are staying at 0 .
Test results today
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 3.0
Alkalinity 120
PH 7.6


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## wake49

True. Even "cured" live rock can "cycle" if the bacteria count wasn't high enough, or the trip out if water was too long. Since he was using aragamax live sand, the bacteria count should have been good enough to shorten the cycle to almost non-existant. The surface area of sand is far greater than the surface area of rock, so the beneficial is always exponentially greater...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wake49

Nitrites are climbing. Can you get an ammonia test today?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Nitrites are climbing. Can you get an ammonia test today?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just got ammonia tested
ammonia 0

Kh is back up to 180
Bought some ph booster.


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## wake49

I am even more concerned about the nitrite count if nitrates are zero. Almost as if the correct bacteria for the second step in the nitrogen cycle wasn't present. 

I personally do not put a fish in any tank for at least a month. The rock and sand will properly cycle the tank, so I just wait for it to mature. Can you rehome the damsel for now? How is he doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> I am even more concerned about the nitrite count if nitrates are zero. Almost as if the correct bacteria for the second step in the nitrogen cycle wasn't present.
> 
> I personally do not put a fish in any tank for at least a month. The rock and sand will properly cycle the tank, so I just wait for it to mature. Can you rehome the damsel for now? How is he doing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The damsel is active,vibrant colors came back, eating well. and the gills aren't red anymore. I bought another 1 1/2 lbs of live rock. With lots of color and live things on it as well as coralline algae


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## killavixen

Water rechecked 4 hrs after adding ph booster & Nitates are appearing now

Readings
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Alkaliity 180
Ph 7.8

Hydrometer is reading 1.020


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## killavixen

Here's My first picture


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## wake49

Looking good. What are the dimensions of this tank?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Looking good. What are the dimensions of this tank?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I has no idea lol.
The rock has a clam...thats sooo cool


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## wake49

It looks bigger than eight gallon to me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> It looks bigger than eight gallon to me...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Might be, someone was giving it away and i got it.


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## RSully

Do you have a power head in this tank? If so (but I can't see it if it's in there) you need to point it towards the surface. This will allow for gas (CO2) exchange and will help with your Ph issues. You need at least 80-160 GPH (asumming it's an 8 gallon tank) flow for your size tank. You also need to get the Alk down but get the PH up first.



killavixen said:


> Here's My first picture


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## killavixen

RSully said:


> Do you have a power head in this tank? If so (but I can't see it if it's in there) you need to point it towards the surface. This will allow for gas (CO2) exchange and will help with your Ph issues. You need at least 80-160 GPH (asumming it's an 8 gallon tank) flow for your size tank. You also need to get the Alk down but get the PH up first.


Im getting a powerhead , waiting for it to arrive. rio 50 powerhead. the alkaline is where its supposed to be for saltwater according to the test


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## killavixen

RSully said:


> Do you have a power head in this tank? If so (but I can't see it if it's in there) you need to point it towards the surface. This will allow for gas (CO2) exchange and will help with your Ph issues. You need at least 80-160 GPH (asumming it's an 8 gallon tank) flow for your size tank. You also need to get the Alk down but get the PH up first.


Im getting a powerhead , waiting for it to arrive. rio 50 powerhead. the alkaline is where its supposed to be for saltwater according to the test and so is ph


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## killavixen

RSully said:


> Do you have a power head in this tank? If so (but I can't see it if it's in there) you need to point it towards the surface. This will allow for gas (CO2) exchange and will help with your Ph issues. You need at least 80-160 GPH (asumming it's an 8 gallon tank) flow for your size tank. You also need to get the Alk down but get the PH up first.


Im getting a powerhead , waiting for it to arrive. rio 50 powerhead. the alkaline is where its supposed to be for saltwater according to the test and so is ph and the powerhead does 69gph


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## wake49

Yeah Alk is good @ 10th dKH. That is the equivalent to your 180 ppm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Yeah Alk is good @ 10th dKH. That is the equivalent to your 180 ppm.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Awesome Im waiting for petsmart to open around 10 to test for ammonia i'll post results in the meantime... My clam was opening up this morning! So cool!


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## wake49

Nice. Ditch that Power Filter though. It is a nitrate factory....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Nice. Ditch that Power Filter though. It is a nitrate factory....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I added Purigen in it. I have a POwerhead being shipped to me. 
Test Today
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 3.0
Alkalinity 180
Ph 7.2-7.8


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## wake49

That is a broad range for the pH. And I am baffled as to why your Nitrites aren't declining, and nitrates aren't rising. Maybe this tank isn't fully cycled. 

How does the damsel look?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> That is a broad range for the pH. And I am baffled as to why your Nitrites aren't declining, and nitrates aren't rising. Maybe this tank isn't fully cycled.
> 
> How does the damsel look?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Damsel is looking good still. Whats curious to me is that the nitrites aren'g going up OR down... Just rechecked
Nitrate 20 
nitrite 3.0
Kh 180
Ph is still in between 7.4-7.8 Thats the available numbers on my test strip and the color is in between. I added a little more ph up. want a solid 7.8 or 8.2


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## wake49

Watch out on the pH up. It can throw off your alkalinity if you add too much...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Watch out on the pH up. It can throw off your alkalinity if you add too much...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok... I only added a few drops. Not even the recommended dose. 
I added some pictures and videos 
Community Tank - 8 gallon Saltwater fish tank


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## killavixen

My little Damsel


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## RSully

Are you using test strips for all your tests? If so, thet are not very accurate to say the least. You need to invest in the API Master Saltwater test kit as a minimum.


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## killavixen

RSully said:


> Are you using test strips for all your tests? If so, thet are not very accurate to say the least. You need to invest in the API Master Saltwater test kit as a minimum.


Im working with what i can atm.


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## RSully

I understand that. I'm not trying to be critical of you or what your using, just trying to let you know that test strips are very rangy in there accuracy. That may be why you keep getting such a wide range of readings on your Ph.



killavixen said:


> Im working with what i can atm.


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## wake49

If you can, throw a tape measure on the tank and let us know the dimensions. That way we can help you with a good stocking list. It looks like a 29 gallon to me, but I can't be sure without some dimensions


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> If you can, throw a tape measure on the tank and let us know the dimensions. That way we can help you with a good stocking list. It looks like a 29 gallon to me, but I can't be sure without some dimensions


Its def not a 29, its about half the size of thy 30 gal, and i dont have any measuring tape


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## killavixen

*Test results/ 4/29*

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 5.0
kh 180
Ph 7.8


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Nitrate 20
> Nitrite 5.0
> kh 180
> Ph 7.8


No ammonia test yet? That rock you have in there looks pretty white. Was most of it Dry Rock and just the one piece Live?

Was the sand labeled as "Live Sand"?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> No ammonia test yet? That rock you have in there looks pretty white. Was most of it Dry Rock and just the one piece Live?
> 
> Was the sand labeled as "Live Sand"?


not yet, i have to go to petsmart for the ammonia test. And all of it is live rock. three of the pieces just doesnt have much growth on it yet. And my camera on my phine doesnt pick up on the colors. And yes its live sand, Carib-sea Aragalive


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> not yet, i have to go to petsmart for the ammonia test. And all of it is live rock. three of the pieces just doesnt have much growth on it yet. And my camera on my phine doesnt pick up on the colors. And yes its live sand, Carib-sea Aragalive


Sorry, I am just baffled by the Nitrite reading. We will have a better idea once we have an accurate ammonia test result.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Sorry, I am just baffled by the Nitrite reading. We will have a better idea once we have an accurate ammonia test result.


Ammonia is 0.5


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Ammonia is 0.5


You are going through a cycle. I am still surprised to see Nitrates without a decline in Nitrites, but maybe that Nitrite test is inaccurate? Can you have the LFS test all of your parameters next time you go and post them here? That Live Rock must not have been as 'live" as the LFS said it was. ;-)

Just keep an eye (daily) on your parameters, and when ammonia and nitrite reach zero, your cycle is done. Maybe you should start regular water changes until Ammonia and Nitrites disappear. I think that 25% or less (last time the damsel stressed, so maybe start with 10% a day) shoud suffice.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> You are going through a cycle. I am still surprised to see Nitrates without a decline in Nitrites, but maybe that Nitrite test is inaccurate? Can you have the LFS test all of your parameters next time you go and post them here? That Live Rock must not have been as 'live" as the LFS said it was. ;-)
> 
> Just keep an eye (daily) on your parameters, and when ammonia and nitrite reach zero, your cycle is done. Maybe you should start regular water changes until Ammonia and Nitrites disappear. I think that 25% or less (last time the damsel stressed, so maybe start with 10% a day) shoud suffice.


M'kay and i do get tests done at the store for everything, it just always matches wht i get at home


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## killavixen

Bought Kent Marine Purple Tech for my little corals. And to promote coralline algae growth.


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Bought Kent Marine Purple Tech for my little corals. And to promote coralline algae growth.


This acts as an alkalinity buffer, and good alkalinity and calcium readings will always promote coraline algae growth.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> This acts as an alkalinity buffer, and good alkalinity and calcium readings will always promote coraline algae growth.


Yay


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Yay


Do you have a calcium test?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Do you have a calcium test?


no :-?


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## killavixen

*Test results 4/30*

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 5.0
Kh 180
PH 7.8

Ammonia hasnt been tested yet


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> no :-?


You should get one when you have a chance


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Nitrate 20
> Nitrite 5.0
> Kh 180
> PH 7.8
> 
> Ammonia hasnt been tested yet


Have you done any water changes?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Have you done any water changes?


not yet... i got to go get some saltwater.


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## wake49

Can you have the LFS test it all? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, Alkalinity and Calcium?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Can you have the LFS test it all? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, Alkalinity and Calcium?


I can see but dont think they will


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> I can see but dont think they will


Ok, more importantly get us the Nitrite and Ammonia, to check them against yours.

Is this a chain or a local mom & pop shop?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Ok, more importantly get us the Nitrite and Ammonia, to check them against yours.
> 
> Is this a chain or a local mom & pop shop?


Its called Premier Aquatics, Its the only store in my state so it may be locally owned. And i just called them and they do cheack everything there. Calcium, phosphates, copper..etc


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Its called Premier Aquatics, Its the only store in my state so it may be locally owned. And i just called them and they do cheack everything there. Calcium, phosphates, copper..etc


Great! When you get a chance, have them test it all then post the results. 

I think you are going through a cycle.


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## killavixen

I got everything checked they didnt say the results but said everything was good and that my cycle will most likely be over in a week or so. They checked everything calcium, phosphates copper, etc


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## wake49

Good. Have you done a water change lately?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Good. Have you done a water change lately?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


they told me not to, to let tank cycle first


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## wake49

ok, but if the Nitrite or Ammonia gets too high, it can stress the damsel out. It is essentially poison to the fish in higher concentrations. Keep an eye on those two parameters and post them periodically until the cycle is done.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> ok, but if the Nitrite or Ammonia gets too high, it can stress the damsel out. It is essentially poison to the fish in higher concentrations. Keep an eye on those two parameters and post them periodically until the cycle is done.


will do


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## killavixen

*Test results 5/1*

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0 (its drpping  )
KH 180
Ph 7.8


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Nitrate 20
> Nitrite 3.0 (its drpping  )
> KH 180
> Ph 7.8


Yay! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

ammonia is 0.5


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## killavixen

*Pictures!!!!*

Rearranged my lr again lol


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## RSully

With your numbers still elevated while going through a cycle, I would opt to not do any rearranging until it's complete. While your fish may not show any outward signs of stress, he is going through some amount of stress with ammonia and nitrite's in your system. Keep it as stress free as possible.


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## killavixen

*Test Results 5/2*

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Ammonia 0 ( :-D )


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## killavixen

*Test Results 5/3*

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 1.0
Kh 300
PH 7.8
Ammonia 0


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Nitrate 20
> Nitrite 1.0
> Kh 300
> PH 7.8
> Ammonia 0


Are you still adding pH up?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Are you still adding pH up?


nope used it one time. Also im having a brown algae bloom, normal?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> nope used it one time. Also im having a brown algae bloom, normal?


Diatom bloom is normal and the sign that the tank is maturing. It should get out of control for a few days and then recede after that.

Still using Kent Purple Tech?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Diatom bloom is normal and the sign that the tank is maturing. It should get out of control for a few days and then recede after that.
> 
> Still using Kent Purple Tech?


Not till i get the calcium and everything tested again tuesday, I used it once.


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Not till i get the calcium and everything tested again tuesday, I used it once.


Ok. Good.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Ok. Good.


when the nitrites reach 0 when can i add some snails/crabs?
i also have some red hair algae


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> when the nitrites reach 0 when can i add some snails/crabs?


When Nitrites and Ammonia are stable at zero for at least a week, I see no problem adding a few snails and hermits.


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> i also have some red hair algae


Can you post a picture of it?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Can you post a picture of it?


it wont shop up on my phone cam
looks like this but there is only a few strands of it


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## killavixen

*Test results 5/4*

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 0
ammonia 0
:-D:-D:-D:-D


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## wake49

Alright! Let's keep testing and hope it stays that way. 

What is your light schedule?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Alright! Let's keep testing and hope it stays that way.
> 
> What is your light schedule?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


10 to 12 hours on


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## killavixen

*Update*

Went to a local expo and got a clownfish and a zoanthid


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## killavixen

*Photos!!!*

New pics of first coral & Milo the Clownfish


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## wake49

You might have been a little hasty here. Hopefully new the editions don't send you back into a cycle.

What kind of coral is it?

EDIT: I see they are zoanthids. What kind of light do you have?

Your light schedule might be promoting that hair algae you have. Dial it back down to eight hours for a few days...


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> You might have been a little hasty here. Hopefully new the editions don't send you back into a cycle.
> 
> What kind of coral is it?
> 
> EDIT: I see they are zoanthids. What kind of light do you have?
> 
> Your light schedule might be promoting that hair algae you have. Dial it back down to eight hours for a few days...


Can do, its half 10,000k daylight and halide Also, the damsel is being rehomed tuesday, only a few days with the extra load should be fine i think.


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## RSully

I don't understand why you came to this site for help when you continually ignore it. An 8 gallon tank isn't enough for either of the fish you have let alone the both of them. It's a shame that that clownfish will probably slowly succumb a slow death because you continue to ignore anything anyone tells you and do the oppsosite. And by the poor quality pics you posted, I dont think thats a zoa, it looks more like a torch coral. Sorry to be harsh here but your playing with fire in a tank this size.



killavixen said:


> Went to a local expo and got a clownfish and a zoanthid


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Can do, its half 10,000k daylight and halide


Do you mean half 10,000k and half actinic? Is it flourescent, halide, power compact or LED?



killavixen said:


> Also, the damsel is being rehomed tuesday, only a few days with the extra load should be fine i think.


These are the crucial days, at the end of a cycle. If there were to be a relapse, now would be the time. The longer the tank has to establish the beneficial bacteria needed for the nitrogen cycle, the better off you are.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Do you mean half 10,000k and half actinic? Is it flourescent, halide, power compact or LED?
> 
> 
> 
> These are the crucial days, at the end of a cycle. If there were to be a relapse, now would be the time. The longer the tank has to establish the beneficial bacteria needed for the nitrogen cycle, the better off you are.


I found him somewhere today. Now its just the clownfish


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## killavixen

RSully said:


> I don't understand why you came to this site for help when you continually ignore it. An 8 gallon tank isn't enough for either of the fish you have let alone the both of them. It's a shame that that clownfish will probably slowly succumb a slow death because you continue to ignore anything anyone tells you and do the oppsosite. And by the poor quality pics you posted, I dont think thats a zoa, it looks more like a torch coral. Sorry to be harsh here but your playing with fire in a tank this size.


It is a zoa. And i have taken all advice given to me. I take the advice, think about it and make a decision based on what i know, opinions of multiple people with varying advice and experiences, then i make a decision. Just because i dont take one or two pieces of advice, doesnt mean that i havent listened. And i dont appreciate you saying such aweful things to me about how my fish is gonna die. Its unnecessary.

AND if you would have read, the damsel was not staying the tank. And it was rehomed today. I KNOW they cant be in the same tank.


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## killavixen

*Update*

Everything is holding at less than 10 nitrtate, 0 nitrite, and 0 ammonia.
I got some DT's Live Marine Phytoplankton- 
Premium Reef Blend .
** Moving up to a 10 gallon in a few days**


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## killavixen

*Update photos*

Can someone id the 2nd pic pleaase


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## killavixen

*Refugium*

Finally made my refugium, I have purigen, fluval foam, and macroalgea (seaweed)


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## wake49

Clean that sponge daily. Maybe twice a day. That sponge will result in the breakdown of organic material into nitrates and start to overpower the system, ultimately depleting alkalinity at a rate faster than you can keep up with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Clean that sponge daily. Maybe twice a day. That sponge will result in the breakdown of organic material into nitrates and start to overpower the system, ultimately depleting alkalinity at a rate faster than you can keep up with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It wont kill the bacteria in it if i do that everyday?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> It wont kill the bacteria in it if i do that everyday?


Personally I would take it out. Your tank will have more than enough bacteria in the sand and rock to supplement any bacteria loss from rinsing that pad twice a day. 

I am deadset against pads, socks or anything that catches and holds detritus. They are Nitrate factories and are detrimental to Alkalinity and overall Water Quality. I personally like running just a Protein Skimmer, Deep Sand Bed and Live Rock.


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## Reefing Madness

No need to clean it every day. Every week is a must. You do not worry about bacteria and growth with this. You just want to keep it clean. Everyday is overboard.


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## killavixen

Thanks, I added a daylight LED to the refugium. Running it opposite my tank light. Also how long does it take for fire and ice zoas to open after being put in a new tank?


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## wake49

Give them a few days to acclimate. 

The daytime LED opposite the DT will help keep your pH stable. Good move.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Give them a few days to acclimate.
> 
> The daytime LED opposite the DT will help keep your pH stable. Good move.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


the lights were a DIY project im really proud of, and they are super bright, they bleed into the tank just a tidbit and it looks like moonlight, avery soft shimmer effect. As for the LED's a friend gave me a strip of led's but i had to wire them up myself, had to cut and wire an ac adapter then tape it up nice and tight with electrical tape.


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## killavixen

More pics of my gsp


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## wake49

Nice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

*Upgrading! Need Advice*

I got a 15 gallon tank now, Whats the process for moving everything from the 8 gallon to the new tank. Will it need to recycle?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> I got a 15 gallon tank now, Whats the process for moving everything from the 8 gallon to the new tank. Will it need to recycle?


The disruption might cause a small cycle. Your tank isn't overly established and some of that beneficial bacteria could die off in the move. There is also a good possiblity that if your work is hasty, that there will not be a cycle and everything goes fine.

I would move the equipment (Skimmer and Refugium) over to establish some beneficial bacteria in the new tank. I would then move the rock and sand. Keep the circulation pump in the current tank for gas exchange and test the new tank before you move the fish and livestock over. Once you know that you aren't going to mini-cycle (you should know by the end of the first day) and everything is testing the same as it was in the current tank, move over the fish and livestock.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> The disruption might cause a small cycle. Your tank isn't overly established and some of that beneficial bacteria could die off in the move. There is also a good possiblity that if your work is hasty, that there will not be a cycle and everything goes fine.
> 
> I would move the equipment (Skimmer and Refugium) over to establish some beneficial bacteria in the new tank. I would then move the rock and sand. Keep the circulation pump in the current tank for gas exchange and test the new tank before you move the fish and livestock over. Once you know that you aren't going to mini-cycle (you should know by the end of the first day) and everything is testing the same as it was in the current tank, move over the fish and livestock.


Alrighty! Thanks!


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## killavixen

*Ugraded!*

I now have a 15 gallon tank!


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## wake49

Looking good!


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## killavixen

*Just Some Milo Pics*

Got a few good pics of Milo


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## wake49

That is one nice looking clown!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> That is one nice looking clown!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks!


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## killavixen

*Video*

A short video


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## killavixen

*Help*

I have found quite a few fireworms in my tank. Do they hurt corals or fish? I now they can sting and im posiyive they are fireworms as they are orange/red.


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> I have found quite a few fireworms in my tank. Do they hurt corals or fish? I now they can sting and im posiyive they are fireworms as they are orange/red.


I have never had a problem with bristleworms hurting anything in the tank. I am not sure if any of them were of the "Fireworm" species, but I do know they are a beneficial hitchhiker. I also know that they tend to get larger (and more in number) as you feed the tank more and more. You can diminish their numbers by cutting back on feedings, as they will die off and eat the carcasses.

EDIT: Can you get a picture up? Feed the tank to make him come out.


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## killavixen

couldnt get them to come back out


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## killavixen

*Fire & Ice Zoas*

My F&I zoas finally are opening up.


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> couldnt get them to come back out


From everything I have read about Fire worms they are just a variant of the common bristleworm. They are considered just as harmless and myths of them being a nuisance is due to people finding them devouring dead animals. This led many to believe that the worm killed the creature, when in fact it was just feeding on an already deceased carcass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> My F&I zoas finally are opening up.


Stunning
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

*Video*

A longer view of my tank


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## killavixen

*Look what i found!*

Omg somehow a little baby starfish ended up in my tank its so dang cute! I also see Alot of teeny tiny white specs moving across the glass. And some other specs that have little tentacle like apendages they kinga look like brittle stars byt they arent too much bigger than the pods


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## wake49

This is an astrea starfish. Soon you will see a lot of them. They have a tendency to keep "showing up" one after another, LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

*New stock!*

I have officially bought a $50 fish, said i wasnt gonna do it and guess what. I saw this cute lil guy (hopefully girl soon) and couldnt resist. Also got 2 blue legs and a peppermint shrimp. Also is $30 a good price for a decent sized green bubble tip anenome? Saw one for that price today.


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## wake49

Can you get a pic of the Green Bubble Tip?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Can you get a pic of the Green Bubble Tip?


it was at the lfs the other day, and they're closed it was probly 3" across


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## killavixen

*Pics *

Pepper
















Mocha & Milo
















I think Milo's in love :love2:


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> it was at the lfs the other day, and they're closed it was probly 3" across


I really wanted to see what it looked like open. 

I personally would wait for the tank to be six months mature. They tend to do better in mature, established tanks.


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> I really wanted to see what it looked like open.
> 
> I personally would wait for the tank to be six months mature. They tend to do better in mature, established tanks.


i can wait  but y that time i hopefully will be able to build this
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/diy-aquarium/diy-reef-aquarium-qs-197370/


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## killavixen

*Water Test*

Not so good results. Did a 50% change.
Ammonia 0
Nitrite & Nitrate 0
PH 7.9
dKh 17.9
Ca 420
Mg 1245
Phospate 2
All tests were liquid


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## wake49

Was this after the WC? Why such a big change?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Was this after the WC? Why such a big change?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


tested before change, i had 3 invert deaths, one fouled up the tank pretty nasty


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## killavixen

*Hammer Time!*

Hammer i got today $5


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## wake49

I do love me some hammer coral!

Can we get a full tank shot? Pretty please?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> tested before change, i had 3 invert deaths, one fouled up the tank pretty nasty


How are the tests now?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> How are the tests now?


you'll have to wait on the full tank shot for a little bit, dropped the camera :-?
I cant remember what the exact numbers were, but they were more where they Are supposed to be i know phosphate was down to less than 1. i think the alkalinty was 12.9


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## killavixen

*Upgrading again*

Yep, found a deal i couldnt resist. 29 gal bow front acryllic tank, stand, cannister filter, skimmer, light, and more $65 the exact tank im getting... i go pick it up wednesday:-D


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> Yep, found a deal i couldnt resist. 29 gal bow front acryllic tank, stand, cannister filter, skimmer, light, and more $65 the exact tank im getting... i go pick it up wednesday:-D


Nice! Were there pics with this? I can't see them...


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Nice! Were there pics with this? I can't see them...


yea dont know why you cant see them


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Nice! Were there pics with this? I can't see them...


yes there are pics


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## wake49

Strange. What were they of? The new tank?


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Strange. What were they of? The new tank?


yea


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## killavixen

pics showin now?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> pics showin now?


Yes!

That looks nice. I would personally get rid of the canister if I were running that system. Does it come stocked?


----------



## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Yes!
> 
> That looks nice. I would personally get rid of the canister if I were running that system. Does it come stocked?


dont think so, but i'll find out tommorow. why not use cannister?


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## wake49

killavixen said:


> why not use cannister?


The basics of FW aquaria are:

Fish excrete ammonia. Bacteria in the aquarium turns Ammonia into Nitrite, and bacteria in the filter converts NitrItes into NitrAtes. Nitrates build up and are removed through regular water changes (any freshies can come in and correct me here).

The basics of SW aquaria are:

Fish excrete ammonia and Dissolved Organic Compounds (DOC). Aerobic (oxygen-rich) bacteria convert ammonia into nitrites, and aerobic bacteria convert Nitrites into Nitrates and anaerobic (low-oxygen) bacteria (found deep in the live rock and at the bottom of a deep sand bed) convert Nitrates into Nitrogen Gas, which leaves the system naturally. Dissolved Organic Compounds break down into Nitrates, which are aslo converted by anaerobic bacteria into Nitrogen Gas, unless they are removed _before_ they break down. In one picture there is Marineland SeaClone Protein Skimmer. The Skimmer removes DOC before they break down by "charging" the molecules in the water to "attract" the ions of DOC (fish 'poop') and bringing them to top of the water column (of the skimmer) as they float to the surface. This rids the system of DOC and potential Nitrate builup _before_ it breaks down into more harmful forms.

Since canister filters by design create a buildup of Nitrates, they are detrimental to a marine system. Nitrates have a direct effect on Alkalinity, and can reduce it at a rate of 2.8 dKH for every 50 ppm Nitrate. Without a Deep Sand Bed, this Alkalinity cannot be replaced without supplementing. And since a canister _produces_ Nitrates, it can be exponentially reducing Alkalinity and be harder and harder to keep up with.

I don't use a canister. Won't even run it empty, as I am afraid that detritus and food will get caught in the mechanics and break down unknowingly...


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## killavixen

Man did that guy hook me up! i got the tank, fluval canister filter, tetra tec filter, 2 heaters, skimmer, tubes & pipes, circulation pump, powerheads, misc food, meds, and chems. Buckets, gravel vac, JbJ dual power compact light, and other odds and ends. Im using the light ad the canister on my freshwater for now.


----------



## wake49

Sweet!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## killavixen

wake49 said:


> Sweet!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I cant waait to get enough lr and sand so i can set it up. :-D


----------



## wake49

You have enough live rock and sand in your current tank (this is an upgrade, right?). You can save some $ and buy dry rock and sand. It will be seeded by the live stuff already in your tank.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## killavixen

wake49 said:


> You have enough live rock and sand in your current tank (this is an upgrade, right?). You can save some $ and buy dry rock and sand. It will be seeded by the live stuff already in your tank.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


oh ok dry rock is way cheaper


----------



## killavixen

Well i visited an amazing lfs with an awesome father's day sale! I got 2 heads of duncan for $10, a rainbow bta $45, and my first cleaner shrimp!


----------



## wake49

I would love to see pics of that rainbow BTA!


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## killavixen

wake49 said:


> I would love to see pics of that rainbow BTA!


unfortunately the rainbow bta didnt make it. I checked my water everything was fine. My lighting must have been too bad or something. Well the guy at the store said he might could save it, he said it really stressed. My crabs and shrimp really bugged it too. He exchanged it for me anyway and a got a massive ( imo) piece of daisy coral i think. lke softball size.


----------



## killavixen

*Pictures*

Moved to the bowfront.


----------



## killavixen

Well petco has their $1 pero gallon sale so i got a 40 breeder. Not set up yet. I have new fish too. I have a molly and an african cleaner wrasse. A goniopora ,frogspawn, xenia, and rainbow bta have made My tank their home. I upgraded lighting to t5 quad using german bulbs. More live rock. Pics coming soon.


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## killavixen

all future posts will be here http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/saltwater-aquariums/killavixens-reef-photo-journal-227858/


----------

