# HELP RED BLOOD PARROT FISH WITH A giant thing on the nose



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

So there is something growing at the nose one of my fishes seems to have had this happen before but I was able to stop it by buying some medication. Im sure its just a disease but just to make sure is it HITH disease? Because I put the medication into the tank already and I just wanted to be sure. Here are some pictures


----------



## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Hello, please refer to this post and provide us with the requested information. That way we can begin to help you.

http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=882


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

okiemavis said:


> Hello, please refer to this post and provide us with the requested information. That way we can begin to help you.
> 
> http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=882



30 Gallon tank. pH level 6.5. ammonia 0. nitrite 0. nitrate .01. 8 Blood Parrots 2 Pleco's


----------



## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Not sure about the disease...but 8 Blood Parrots and 2 Pleco's seems like a lot of fish in a 30g aquarium.


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

i know this please do not tell me. They are HAPPY =) for real. the pleco's are pretty small and i clean the tank a lot so it doesn't get too dirtyy..


----------



## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

I honestly fail to believe you when you say the BP's are happy. They don't even have room to swim!


----------



## cajunmomof4 (Mar 1, 2008)

what kit are u using? The lowest reading above 0 for nitAtes on my kit is 5ppm *scratches head*


----------



## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Blood parrots reach what, 8" each? They have a bioload of a 16" fish. The plecs, without knowing what specie they are, can easily outgrow yoru tank.

Did you ask your BP's if they are happy? Would you like living in a small container with 9 other people and you all live in your waste?

This is what Bettababy has really helped me with; take a piece of paper, and cut it into 8 8" pieces, with 2 5-10" pieces of paper. Place them in front of your tank. Is there really enough room for everybody?

How are you 'trates only .01? Either your tank is not cycled, or you used your test kit wrong. A tank with live inhabintants should always have more than 2ppm of 'trates.

The best thing you can do right now is to get everybody out and into proper homes.

Can we have a full-tank shot please?


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

OK I DIDNT COME ONTO THIS SITE TO HAVE PEOPLE [expletive edited] AT ME ABOUT THIS SITUATION I CAME ONTO THIS SITE TO GET SOME HELP. ALL THESE BP ARE SMALL AS HECK THEY ARE FREAKING BABIES.PLECOS ARE NEW AS HECK AND THEY ARE SMALL THAN A FINGER. WASTE IS CLEANED EVERY WEEK. MY TANK IS FINE THE FISH ARE FINE.PERIOD.I AM HERE TO GET THIS PROBLEM FIXED NOT TO GET TOLD ABOUT FISH TANK SIZE.

THE FISH IS NOT SWIMMING UPSIDE DOWN.

1)FISHES ARE SMALL (KEEP THAT IN MIND)
2)WASTE IS CLEANED ONCE A WEEK
3)MY TANK IS CYCLED SORRY I RECHECKED IT AND ITS AT 3 for nitrates.


----------



## cajunmomof4 (Mar 1, 2008)

THE FISH IS NOT SWIMMING UPSIDE DOWN.


> 1)FISHES ARE SMALL (KEEP THAT IN MIND)


 so are human babies, but you still can't pack them into a small room together




> 2)WASTE IS CLEANED ONCE A WEEK


 bet it's a ton 



> 3)MY TANK IS CYCLED SORRY I RECHECKED IT AND ITS AT 3 for nitrates


still a little low

How long has the tank been set up? All baby fish seems to say it's pretty new.


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

I swear if you any of you guys talk about this tank situation again...you will be the worst fish helpers of the world. I think my dad says its a 30 gallon tank but I dont think it says because the fish have a lot of room to swim. Plus they dont seem to swim alot they seem to like staring into space and watching TV... lol joking


The waste is not a ton at least its being cleaned so it doesn't turn into horrible things.

I meant my fish was swimming upside down yesterday at the top like it was dead then it went to the bottom. It looked like it was having trouble going down. But now today it seemed to be normal and back to the way it is. But it still has something on its nose and its poop seems to be white stringy stuff.
It also doesn't really seem to want to eat as I put blood worms in today.

Oh and now new situation...2 of my fishes have black coloring under them.


----------



## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Wild, we are not the worst helpers ever, we have clearly pointed out what we believe to be the source of your problem- overcrowding (and everything that comes with that). It's very hard to fix something if you are unwilling to acknowledge the problem, and it would be irresponsible of us to continue helping you deny this issue and look elsewhere for the source of your fish's illness.

Also, can I ask, what sort of test kit are you using? Liquid or test strips? I ask because test strips can be very inaccurate and you may have a water quality issue and not even know it.


----------



## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

Overcrowding=bad water quality=Diseases

Since you seem to think that because your fish are babies is a reasonable excuse to house them like this, I will ask you one thing. What will you do with them since they are babies and babies do this funny thing called growing up?

We can't make you be mature and admit you made a mistake when you bought these fish...you have to do it yourself. Denying the problem doesn't make it go away...unless the fish die off one by one.


----------



## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

If we seem rude, then sorry. We are trying to help your fish thrive. Fish can live in bad, overcrowded conditions, but they thrive under the proper conditions. Big difference there.

Can you try the Paper thing? Just because they are babies doesn't mean they will stay that way. We are trying to help, and you are being to stubborn to listen. This is the main reason for all your diseases. I did this once, and my fish were living in hell. I finally opened up to people and listened, and everything is perfect.

What are your Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels? What kind of tesk kit are you using?


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

I have changed the water today and the parameters are probably set back to normal.
Ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 8
I use the liquid stuff.

I really dont think the tank is the problem even if it is you cant make me get the fish into another tank because 
1)my house has no room for another tank 
2) I'm not opening a National Aquarium in my house
3) I'm not gunna kill the fish to make room


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

im not sure if you will be able to see this but...


----------



## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Option #4- return the BP's to your fish store for credit and get something more appropriate for a tank that size. You could do something really incredible if you decided to.


----------



## cajunmomof4 (Mar 1, 2008)

They're huge, beautiful fish, please think of their comfort.


----------



## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

I will not post here anymore if you really do not care for the health of your fish. We are tryig to help and you are too arrogant to help. Can you just listen to us and think of the conditions they are in, and what it would be like if you were in that?

Those are definately not babies. I can see now that you are way overstocked in a crowded tank. Crowded tank=stress=disease=dead fish. Look at the root of your problem; crowded tank.

You dont even have anything they can hide behind and relax.


----------



## herefishy (Dec 14, 2006)

Here is the deal guys.

I am totally disgusted with the members who posted in this thread. Maybe some of the members before you should have treated each of you the same way when you first joined. Then you would, maybe, change your tone. Where is your sense of fellowship and the welcoming of new members?

The fish are yet juvies. Grow out tanks are notoriously overstocked. Is his stocking scheme wrong? It depends. I say, if the fish are young and small, no. If they are adults then his tank is overstocked. None of you have asked about filtration, which, if adequate could handle the bio load.

Instead of preaching the drunes of overstocking, answer his question. You all sit on your high horses and everyone of you haven't got the experience necessary to preach a word. Some of you have less than a year in the hobby. Some of you still ask stocking questions, then try to answer some complicated question on breeding, lighting, live rock, or sumps. I often wonder where all of this new found knowledge comes from.

I don't want to hear that you have been around fish all of your life. That is not being a fish keeper. So drop the "holier than thou" attitudes, you all owe the OP an apology.


----------



## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Bob, this is what I was hit with when I had my old 5G. I remember not listening, with hardly any plans on upgrading. But, I guess that doesn't mean I should take it out and feed it in a wrong way to someone.

I do owe you, Wildboitoday, an apology.


----------



## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Yeah, sorry, herefishy is right and we do owe you an apology. I'd be really upset if I came to this site looking for help and found nothing. In fact, I probably would have stopped posting a while ago, so I guess that's a testament to your desire to help your fish. I love that this site is so friendly, and I totally allowed myself to stray from that.

I guess the right questions are, what is your filtration? Your long term plans for these fish? I will say that the tank is quite bare, I think you'd find they would benefit a lot from more things to hide behind, etc. 

It doesn't look like HITH, as it is a lump, not a hole. I'm sort of leaning towards saying it may be a tumor, although I could be completely off-base, and I'm having trouble getting a good look in those photos. Nodular disease is another option, as is fish pox. It would help to get your description- is it smooth and slick looking? Lumpy? What is the exact color? Perhaps someone else can ID this better, but it's not exactly my expertise, so I need more info.

Also, did you say one of your fish was swimming upside down yesterday? If so, could you describe this? It's all pieces of the puzzle.

The best thing to do is to quarantine the fish until you know what the problem is, just to prevent any possible spread. What sort of medication did you add to the tank? Sometimes medications do more harm than good, if we don't have a positive diagnosis.


----------



## herefishy (Dec 14, 2006)

But Cody you are such a soft punching bag. So soft and cuddley..... lol

And if you remember correctly someone stepped in to keep you from getting pummeled. Even though you were being hardheaded. Remember?

As far as the fish goes okiemavis, I'd almost bet it is a parasite of some kind and treat with prazipro.


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I have read through all of the posts in this thread, and I have not seen an answer to the original question. 

The problem with the original sick fish appears to be hole in the head disease, and the black you described on the other fish is an indication of stress and poor water quality and/or low oxygen content in the water.

The cause of the problem is too many fish in that tank together, even if they are babies. I would strongly suggest moving the sick fish, and also the 2 with the black coloration to a quarantine tank asap. You can use medication to ward off any secondary infection, but keeping the water clean will be the most important thing. I would suggest coating the food with metronidazole and feeding that in the quarantine tank for 10 days. Keep the temp up to 80 - 82 degrees farenheit in both tanks, this will help... but also I would strongly suggest adding air stones to provide more oxygen content in both tanks.

The others here were not trying to offend you, simply trying to help. They recognized the obvious cause of the problem, and addressed that without explaining it completely. There is no reason anyone should need to get upset here. 

I noticed your last comment was about not moving any of those fish to another tank, and I have to say that saddens me to hear. IF the sick fish manages to recover, which won't happen in the main tank, if all 8 of those parrots and both of the plecos remain in a 30 gallon tank they will die. Each growth spurt they go through, which is constant when they are young, will serve to deplete the water of oxygen further, and pollute it further with waste. Blood parrots can't handle being crowded, they need space. There isn't enough space in 30 gallons for that kind of fish... 1 blood parrot alone should have at least 75 gallons. 

It is sad that someone is willing to sit back and watch their fish die so willingly. That makes me wonder why you purchased them in the first place? If you cared about them you would care about taking care of them properly, which means providing the proper environment for them. If you don't care about them, then you shouldn't have them. This applies to anyone who keeps any kind of pet. 

To everyone else who has contributed thus far... can we find a way to be a little less agressive in the future? It is ok to explain a situation to someone, but to get so hostile about it really isn't the thing to do... that is in no way going to help anyone. Think of it like a fish... aggression breeds aggression. This is a peacful aquarium here at ff...


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I see some have posted while I was writing my last one, so I will respond again.

I say it looks like hole in the head disease based on the last photo posted of the sick fish. If you look down into it you will see a clear hole in the center of the swollen tissue. This indicates to me that this fish is suffering from an advanced case of hole in the head, and a possible infection starting around the hole. The metronidazole I suggested will help to take care of the hole in the head disease, and once that is dealt with, then a 2nd medication can be used for the infection. The meds needed for the infection won't mix with the metronidazole. The most common form of metronidazole is Hex Out... Metronidazole will also treat this if it is combined with another type of parasite, but I see no evidence of anything else at this stage.

I think the apologies were nice, and I hope that everyone will remember this thread the next time they feel a bit over zealous about helping someone in the future. I agree with herefishy and everything he said, I just didn't see a need to say it again. Everyone has been there at some point... we were all beginners, no matter how long ago it was. 

I wanted to ask how the 120 was faring? Is the flounder still going strong? That would be a much more suitable tank size for these fish to grow them up in.

The upside down fish sounds like a swim bladder problem, and there are many causes of that. In the quarantine tank, add that fish too, and treat the whole tank with epsom salts. If I know how big the qt tank is, I can tell you how much is safe to use.


----------



## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

I think he said that the fish was swimming right side up today though- that's what threw me, a fish swimming in completely different directions from one day to the next? If you look in the very top of the second photo you can see one guy swimming completely upside down. How are they both doing today wildboi?


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

The fact that it's not swimming upside down all the time tells me the problem isn't severe yet, so if treated now, it's possible no permanent damage need be done.

The upside down is a clear indicator of swim bladder problems.


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

it is ok i accept your apologies


Ok yes the medicine that you told me add is the same one I put in and the lump it getting better now. The black went away on the other fish. 

NOW MY FISH IS BACK UPSIDE DOWN AGAIN for the second time I think one of the plecos are attacking it these white things seem to form on the spot the plecos suck on


----------



## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

Some plecos do like to suck on the side of fish, and it can cause infection. The coats of some fish are tasty to munch on. You could try adding more hiding spots and such, and breaking up the line of sight so that the pleco isn't as tempted, as well as making sure the pleco is well fed, but it sounds like you're going to have to rehome him. I've known some people who've run into this problem (mostly with goldfish as goldies have extra tasty slime coats), and I don't believe any of them have found a solution.

As for the upside down swimming, I don't think it's related to the pleco issue. It's almost definitely a swim bladder problem, which BP's are prone to (I think). I'm not an expert on that, so hopefully someone else can chime in or you'll be able to read the other threads about swim bladder disorder.

I'm glad to hear the medicine is helping the bump!


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

THANK YOU!

so yeah the pleco is sucking on it sometimes and it causes these White Spots to form and I tried to call petmart and they don't take fish that are longer than 2 weeks and I'm not sure where I can trade in this evil pleco! 

I bought one little plant ornament haha which is just to keep the fishes more happy but my father is a thick headed human who won't listen to me when I want to add more things to the tank. I use to have a rock but it started having a lot of algae growing on it. 

Also how do you feed plecos??? I thought they just suck the tank for food.

okiemavis i think you thuoght wrong...only one fish is sick the others are fine.

yeah still upside down..it stays at the bottom and it breathes really slowly and now im really out of patience with the pleco i turn back and its sucking the blood parrot im ready to pick it out and scream at him 

but my dad will be putting the pleco into a jar later is that a good idea?


----------



## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

I'm not sure what you thought I was wrong about? I wasn't saying all your fish had a swim bladder disorder, just stating that this breed is prone to them, so it's not a huge shock that one of them has it.

As for the pleco, whenever I have fish I need to give away, I put up a posting on craigslist (I live in the US). I get a bunch of responses right away and then I can pick out the best home. And yes, plecos need their own food, this may be why he is trying to snack on your fish! I feed my plecos algae wafers, zucchini, broccoli and just about any other green veggies I think they would like. It would really help to know the kind of pleco he is, as different ones have different dietary needs. I'm assuming it is a common pleco? Those guys will grow over 2 feet long, which, again, can be problematic. Also, (sorry I know this is a lot of info), most plecos need some wood in their diet. A nice piece of driftwood would look nice in your tank, and then your pleco would have something to chew on.

As for your Dad, why don't you do some more research on fish, blood parrots and fish keeping in general. This website has a lot of great info, as do many others. That way you can face your Dad with facts and work on setting up the tank some more. Believe me, a tank with nice substrate, plants, decorations, etc. is way cool looking, and lots of fun to plan and maintain. I think you'd have a great time with it!


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

Here is the pleco picture im not sure what it is but really small


















































this picture was awhile before but yes its the big one thats sick.


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

the fish is upside down but it doesn't exactly swims. It lays at the bottom breathing slowly but the last time it happened it did the same thing and had trouble going back up right and the next day its back to normal


----------



## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

A pleco in a jar will soon be a dead pleco. The pleco is feeding on a sick/injured fish, which is their instinct... they are closely related to catfish, and that makes them a scavenger. 
Epsom salts will help to treat the swim bladder problem, if you can get the upside down fish to eat a few pieces of epsom salt, that should resolve the problem fairly quickly. BP's are prone to swim bladder problems, especially when not kept in a proper environment. If the cause of the swim bladder problem turns out to be a bacterial infection (which is likely) the salts will only resolve your problem temporarily. Medication would then be needed, and the most important thing will be clean tank and proper environment. If the root of the problem is not dealt with, swim bladder disease will result in permanent damage and ultimately death for the fish.

The plecos will feed on fish when enough other food source is not available or when they are feeling crowded.

Your photos show Gibiceps plecos, aka sail fin pleco, or butterfly pleco. They average about 16 - 18 inches full grown and they are primarily an algae eater, but will feed on vulnerable animals when available. Algae wafers, zuchinni squash, and special pleco and bottom feeder pellet foods are their primary diet along with live plants. These plecos are known for their huge appetites, and 2 of them in a 30 gallon tank is going to make finding enough food very difficult and eventually impossible. Taking the rock with algae out of the tank only took away their food supply.
Gibiceps are also territorial, and need places of their own to hide.

After reading your most recent posts and seeing your photos, I have to say, you don't have an appropriate environment for these animals. They need a much larger aquarium, much more decoration... in your tank's current condition the problems you are having don't surprise me, and you can expect these problems to continue and get worse as time goes on. You really only have 2 choices... 
1. Move the fish to a suitably sized tank, or
2. Watch them die

Unfortunately, there isn't anything more you can do except that. If your father is having an issue with providing proper care for these fish, then it would be best to get rid of them and give them to someone who can. Putting a pleco into a jar is not going to resolve your problem, and the other pleco will likely canibalize the fish as well... and soon. I know you've said you don't want to hear about the overcrowding issues you have, which are quite obvious from your photos, but the overcrowding is causing the problems.

I know some of the other members have grown frustrated here, and that is understandable. I, too, am growing frustrated with this situation. I don't know what more we can do to help you, and dealing with each problem that arises from the same cause, while knowing the cause is not being treated, is frustrating to all. Each time you post with another issue in this tank, the answer is going to be about the same... they need a much larger tank or they will eventually die from these other problems. You cant treat these other problems enough to get rid of them while these fish remain in a 30 gallon tank together, it's not possible.

If these animals are inhumanely treated, like putting a pleco in a jar... then I will not come back to help here in this thread or any others you post about these fish, and I am sure the others are going to echo my words on that. This whole thread tells me that you have acted very irresponsibly with these animals and are continuing to do so without regard to the animal's safety. I will not do anything to contribute to that.


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

We didn't put it in a jar. My dad brought back salt that he said from the ocean which I am totally clueless beacuse yeah... its kinda in the water and he brought back solid salt and put some of it into the water saying that it kills bacteria but ok!

But what am I going to do with that ONE pleco? its gunna be a freakk and eat my other fish im gunna like add a Piranha to eat that thing just kidding. But yes hopefully tomorrow it will be back to normal and I'll try getting some more food for the plecos to snack on rather than my fish the plecos aren't adults yet they're new cause I got them recently

I absolutely fail to believe that it is swim bladder problem. The fish is LAYING at the bottom of the tank breathing SLOWLY. it's not swimming or doing anything else. It's like he's sleeping or something


----------



## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

Y'know...I hate to add fuel to the fire but I'm just going to chime in with one thing...

Even my local Petco is getting their act together after enough complaints.


----------



## wildboitoday (Oct 19, 2007)

Flashygrrl said:


> Y'know...I hate to add fuel to the fire but I'm just going to chime in with one thing...
> 
> Even my local Petco is getting their act together after enough complaints.



what are they doing now??


----------



## cajunmomof4 (Mar 1, 2008)

i also apologize if i came off rude.

Ok FF helpers, I have to say though that I am a Home health nurse, and I come in contact with people that are ill on a daily basis it is my job to teach them a plan of care to help them get well , I can not MAKE them implement it. Sadly the same line of thinking applies here. You all have given him sound advice in good faith. The ball is in his court now. It's just too bad that innocent living things must suffer for the stubbornness of others.

I must ask how old are you wildboi?


----------



## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

Topic is locked due to blatent disreguard to Fish Forum Rules of Conduct by multiple members.


----------

