# Newbie Needs help please.



## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Hi everybody, let me start off by saying thanks for taking the time to read through this. let me start off by listing what my current set up is. 

10 gallon tank
20 gallon air pump with an air wand
15-30 gallon filter
gravel base 
fake plants
Fish:
1 spotted puffer fish
1 black and yellow cat fish
1 fire eel
2 Dalmatian mollies
6 assorted guppies
2 flounder
2 sucker fish
2 kissing fish
2 fiddler crabs
handful of shrimp and feeder snails

I am new to the whole fish tank thing and am having a problem with grayish water. I recently found out that one of the sucker fish died and was hidden in the decor. I guess the other fish decided to eat him and there was not much left of em. I am assuming that I am having a bacteria bloom and was looking for ways to fix it. I have vacuumed the gravel, done 20% water changes for a week and its still cloudy. I have two extra filters laying around (one for a five gallon tank and one for a 10 gallon tank). I was wondering if adding these extra filters to the tank would help clear it up? any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

Ok. There's a whole host of problems here.

1/ you say your newbie so I'll ask if your tank is cycled? Do you understand the cycling process etc? There is a nice sticky post in the freshwater section if you don't etc that explains it all.
2/ kissing fish.....presuming kissing gouramis which are NOT suitable for your tank at all. Way too big. Need at least a 55 and I think possibly bigger. Housing in a tank too small leads to a multitude of problems, including skeletal deformities and internal problems and increased sickness.
3/ you have a puffer fish. Do you know its scientific name? Or correct species? I don't think any puffers are suitable community fish. They need a species only tank. 
Also it's likely there are brackish and therefore by keeping it in freshwater you are killing it. Speaking of which....they are aggressive....likely this killed your sucker fish....by which you mean a plec? Species name??? This puffer needs returning immediately!
4/ there are also other compatibility issues here...... but all in all......your tank is waaaaaaaay overstocked. This is literally killing your fish.

Want my honest opinion? Return all the fish, except the mollies and guppies and start to read up on fish etc you want, though it won't be much you can have in a 10G. Fish need room. Right now it's like me putting you in a 4x2x2 cell with another 34guys.....just imagine...
You are going to kill them all if you carry on as you are. Sorry, not the best welcome or what you wanted to hear Im sure, but it's th hard truth. If you want to be a good fishkeeper it's up to you to make the right choices NOW. You've done the right thing by coming here and asking questions etc..... just hope you can take it on the chin and it continues.


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## squishylittlefishies (Sep 12, 2012)

Yes.You are wayyy overstocked. The fire eel needs at lest 60 gallons. Mollies get 5 inches long- too big. I'm not sure what kind of catfish yours is but I think your species is also too big. Your fishes have different needs and simply won't work out together. What kind of fish is your suckerfish? there are hundreds of suckerfishes...
The mistake you made is a common newbie issue. All the fish are so small when you get them... it seems perfect! but it's not. It's disasterous. I would suggest younreturn all the fishexcept for the gupies and crabs. That is a good place to start. For future rferance, look up AQ stocking calculator. This is a great site to help stock a tank succesfully!
good luck!


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

The tank was cycled prior to placing fish in it. The kissing gouramis are verry small 1" or so. THe puffer fish is a green spotted puffer I have had him for about 2 months now and he is quit helathy and does not attack the other fish. The plec I dont know how it died but it hid alot and I barley ever saw it. I do know that it is alil crowded but I plan on upgrading tanks soon


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

You might not see him attack... but at night.....or whenever..... he will kill them eventually.
Greens also need brackish water and then full marine water. You CAN NOT keep him in a freshwater tank. It will kill him.


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

Upgrading tanks soon is the wrong thing here. You buy fish WHEN you have the tank. Not before. Housing them in a tank too small for ANY amount of time can cause irreparable long term damage to your fish.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

when I purchased the fish the store people told me that you are ok as long as you dont go ver 2 fish per gallon of water. I assumed that I was ok. The also told me that the puffer was ok in frsh water but when he got to about 3/4 to 1 inch I would need to start changing him over to brackish water... I guess this is not true then? I had also bought the shrimp and snails for him to eat and assumed that the reason that he does not eat the other fish is due to him eating the shrimp and snails.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

dodgefate said:


> when I purchased the fish the store people told me that you are ok as long as you dont go ver 2 fish per gallon of water. I assumed that I was ok. The also told me that the puffer was ok in frsh water but when he got to about 3/4 to 1 inch I would need to start changing him over to brackish water... I guess this is not true then? I had also bought the shrimp and snails for him to eat and assumed that the reason that he does not eat the other fish is due to him eating the shrimp and snails.


 The store peoples job is to sell as many fish as they can.


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

Yes that's not far off right. But how will you have him brackish and the others fresh? .....
He should also be in a species tank preferably or not with what he's in with atm.

Keeping him well fed will help..... but it also won't change his aggressive side. I would bet money on him being the plec killer. 

You also have the whole host of other issues to deal with though. Eel...plecs etc that are not suitable. Overstocked. 

2 fish per gallon? Ignore that. And ignore anything that shop ever tells you again if that's what they say. Idiots. 

Do you know your water parameters? Kh and gh and ph? Specifc fish require specific levels of these or once again...shortened lives and long term problems. 

I need to sleep now(UK). I want to stay as it seems you might actually listen which is refreshing.... so hopefully others will chime in


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## squishylittlefishies (Sep 12, 2012)

Allrighty. I just plugged your fish into AQadvisor stocking calc( NOT INCLUDING the catfish, suckers, or crabs). Your tank is 764% stocked. That's 664% TOO MANY fish. It also spat out an entire page of warnings. Your fish are not compatible in terms of water parameters or feeding. The eel, gourami, and puffer are all extremely agressive. 
We all understand that you were misinformed, and I promise no one is judging you for that. I truly hope you will learn from this experience and do what is best for your fishies. I wish you good luck in your fishkeeping hobby- do VERY THOROUGH research on the fish you are interested in- good luck: the future is bright for you and fish if you do this. 
Welcome aboard.


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## squishylittlefishies (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh, also, when you go to the petstore, ask to talk to the FISH SPECIALIST. If they don't have one, don't trust their advice without prior research. If they do, only talk to him.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

THis was a starter tank for me, I figured if I could keep up with it then I would get somthing bigger. I have an 8 foot section of wall that is free and will buy the biggest tank I can wife permitting. The fish in this tank are relitivly small, biggest (besides the eel) would be the mollies at about 1/4 inces. The eel is about 2 and 1/2 inches. What I plan on doing is when I get the bigger tank, I will set it all up cycle it and transfer over all the fish less the puffer. I figuerd that I would slowly convert the current tank over to a brackish water tank for him. As for the store I was using (petsmart) i stopped with them about a month ago. I am now using a local pet store that seems alot more knowlageable. I'm just trying to find out how to keep everyhting healthy untill I can make the switch and looking for advice so that I dont wase money and kill fish with the new tank.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

The puffer I can see, the eel and kissy fish I would have never guessed. The eel I have to hand feed because he seems so timmed. The kissing fish I just see them eating the flakes.. The 600% over crowding would explain the cloudy water... So temporarily (untill i get the new tank in about a week or two then a week or two of cycle) what can I do with my current set up? If I put in the two other filter I have is should be close to 250gph rate..... Would this be a good band aid for a short time?


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

just went through the aqadvisor, with the two filters I have, it places me at 44% overstocked. Wow totaly did not know this, The cat fish is a Rafael Catfish. All teh fish are, from what I have read juvinile size. so I think I need to upgrade sooner than later.


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Hello to you, and welcome to the fishy crew. . . I must admit - as the others have been saying, you DO have quite a mess on your hands! You aren't the first, nor will you be the last, to have been led astray by fish shop employees - I'm glad you've come looking for advice. . .frankly, your screen name 'Dodge Fate' is apt, and I hope you are able to do so in this case!

There are a lot of issues going on here, and frankly - even in a fully cycled 10-gallon tank with juvenile fish, it's going to take a LOT of effort on your part to keep things going for even another two weeks while you get a larger tank. Even with another tank (depending on the size), you're running into trouble with the fish you have on-hand. Some tough decisions have to be made her, and made quickly - or most of these fish will die.

PetSmart and PetCo both have fairly generous return policies. PetSmart gives you 2 weeks to return for a full refund, and I've had them do returns for store credit even beyond that point. You may seriously want to consider giving them and the LFS a call to see if you can return most of these babies and start fresh, even though it's been over a month for some of them. . .

You're using very broad common names to describe some of the fish you have. It would make it much easier if you could track down their scientific names, or even find an image for us to help you identify what it is, exactly, that you have. Knowing this would be of considerable help to us in helping you - but lets start with what we have, and do a break-down. We can go from there.

First off, go - RIGHT NOW - and do a water change! Then do one tomorrow... I suspect that there is a high amount of toxins in the water caused by overstocking as well as the death you experienced. A bacterial bloom is also likely, and those will clear up on their own given a bit of time, but in a situation like this one - perhaps not until and unless the base issues are solved. 

If you don't have one already, I strongly urge you to pick up an API Master Freshwater Test kit. With kit in hand, you'll be able to run tests on the water in the tank to find out how bad the water quality actually is - and how quickly it deteriorates after a water change. How did you cycle this tank? When we say cycle, we mean far more than letting the water sit for a day or two before adding fish - a misconception that many people have when they begin. Even if it_ IS_ properly cycled, there is in no way enough beneficial bacteria in the tank yet - nor, I think, enough surface area in a 10g for it to be able to handle the bioload of the fish you've got stocked here. . . not NOW, much less when they're bigger!

I'm going to go through the fish you have listed, one by one, to the best of my knowledge - and see if it helps you out. . . you're WAY more than 44% overstocked - even with a 2nd filter!


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Okay. . . so. . .Lets take a look at who is living here, exactly - without proper names, much of this is guesswork, so please correct me if I'm wrong. You can click on the shaded names to be take to the species profile for the fish highlighted to get more information. . .

Sucker Fish: What most people refer to as a Suckerfish is a Common Pleco. These beasts really have no place in an aquarium - they belong in a pond. They are very dirty animals, with a high level of waste. People are often told that they need them to 'clean' the tank, but in truth, they really make a tank far more dirty than it would have been without them. They're catfish, so don't like salt. Grow to be 18 inches or so, and can be very territorial toward others of their own kind. These shouldn't be kept in anything smaller than a 55g tank, though they are fairly adaptable when it comes to temps and water hardness - provided it's fresh.

Kissing Gourami: Lovely fish, when kept properly - and very easy for a beginner to keep. These guys aren't very fussy at all, as long as they are given clean FRESH water - and a REALLY big tank! Kissing Gourami grow to be about 12" each, and are aggressive. They will eat any fish that are small enough to fit into their mouths. NOT a good choice for a community tank. They'll need at least a 55g, but truly should be kept in a larger tank as they grow. Good with different water hardness and normal tropical temps.

Flounder? I'm not sure entirely what it is you have here. The most common type that I've heard of in tanks is often called 'freshwater flounder' and is Achirus lineatus - I think? To the best of _my_ knowledge, these are actually brackish fish, and need full saltwater as they mature. They grow to be around 6 inches long, will eat fish smaller than they are, are nocturnal, and very difficult to feed - they won't eat flake. . . at least not at first. But do post up an image of what it is you have so to be sure...

Fiddler Crab: I've never looked into keeping these, so double check my info. But from what I've read, and the random setups I've come across - these guys are usually kept in such a way that they have an area of land to come up out of the water, and do best in species-only setups (I/E no fish). There are many different types that I've seen for sale, and I'm sure they each have their own 'rules,' but I believe they're also fairly fussy as far as how much salt is in their water, and also fairly sure that most, if not all, of these DO require brackish. These do not belong in a community tank. . .

Molly: Now THESE are a great starter fish, if you have hard water. They can go from fresh water to pure brackish - so you should be just FINE with your Mollies. . . the only thing is that they do have a high bio-load (meaning they poo a lot) and they're very active - so they need a tank bigger than 10g. If they're truly only 1/4 inch long - they'd be fine for now in the 10g - but not with everything else  

Guppy: YAY GUPPIES! THESE are ANOTHER great starter fish that will live in perfect harmony with the Mollies - AND can live in a 10g tank with no issues! They're live-bearers, so babies will happen and they like hard water. Guppies can tolerate a bit of salt, but you'll not want to put them in a fully brackish setup.

Not sure what your black and yellow catfish is...

Fire eels are cool, but grow to be 20 inches + and will eat anything smaller. . . no salt. . .

and you've been told all about the Puffers already - these guys NEED brackish, and do best in species-only setups. . .


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Okay, I'm sure I missed a few, but. . . the flat facts are that MOST of these fish are not suited to a beginner, and nearly all of them aren't going to be able to go into the same tank. You'd have to get a HUGE tank to keep several of them, and they still won't be able to live together if you do. Even with your (good) idea of converting the 10g into a brackish tank - I've been considering turning my 29 into a brackish community for quite some time - it isn't nearly as easy as tossing in some aquarium salt. . . and it's something that will require a bit of research on your part to get right - plus different fish prefer different levels of salinity, so you'd have to figure that out, too.

Personal advice here is to go into the shops you got them from, and try to return them. Even if they won't give you a refund or store credit, you might at least save their lives. You're looking at setting up 5 tanks or more - most of which will have to be HUGE - to keep these fish. 

I'd recommend that you keep the 10g with the Guppies and Mollies. . . and hit the books. Lots of research and a thriving tank later, go ahead and invest in the larger tank and maybe pick one or two of these to buy again, based on what you've learned and the experience that you've gained with the tougher live-bearers. . . even if you DO manage to get rid of the bacterial bloom, and do enough water changes to keep these guys alive in an overstocked tank - OR get a massive tank that can handle the bioload - they'll be killing each-other, or die from being in the wrong water conditions eventually. Adding the right type of salt to the tank that some of them require WILL kill others - while keeping the water fresh will have the same effect on others. I'm really sorry. You're really in a pickle here, and the only way to truly fix it is to call it a lost cause and start over, more or less, from scratch.

:/


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks Jes 

Hey dodge fate, can you post a pic of this tank and it's inhabitants?


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

I did a 50% water change, and here is what it looks like now. I got a pic of some of the fish inside but not all.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)




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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)




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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)




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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

THe eel and catfish are hiding along with the crabs and don't want thier photo taken. The catfish is a *Striped Raphael catfish*, _Platydoras armatulus. the eel is really close to_The *Tire track eel* (_Mastacembelus armatus_) but redish. Thanks for being helpfull and understanding. THis tank has been running for about 5 months or so with little to no problem unitll latley.. I appricicate all the good advice I have been getitng


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Ahhh, thanks for getting the pictures up! That clarifies a bit. Especially with the clear shot of the flounder - it/ they do indeed look like what I was referring to in my previous posting - the 'freshwater flounder' that *actually* requires brackish. Looks like you've found the info you need on the catfish, as well -another fairly big fish! As the tank has been running for 5 months, I must assume that you are correct in the fact that it is cycled. 

The cloudiness is likely to be a bacterial bloom caused by the death of one of the suckers (ARE they common Pleco? I couldn't find it/tell in the shots) and/or the heavy bioload of the tank. To address the bacterial bloom itself - which is what you asked about initially. . . in *most* cases, the best thing to do to get rid of them is nothing. They clear up on their own, and in most cases it doesn't take very long - a few days, perhaps. In_ THIS_ situation, however. . . and considering your heavy bioload and all else. . . it may not. It seems to me that the cause of your bloom is likely related to ammonia spikes cause by an excess of organic waste in the tank. Perhaps this was sparked when your Pleco died and rotted in the tank, but with all of the fish in there, and the amount of time it's been running, it could also very well be that your tiny 10g has finally reached the point where the fish have grown enough so that the bacterial colonies behind the nitrogen cycle have reached a point where they simply are unable to cope with the bioload of the tank, and things are starting to get out of control. As a rule, a weekly water change is a must - and as you have gravel and no live plants, a gravel vac is also necessary to remove waste that falls down into the substrate. If you haven't been doing either one of these things, now is the time to start, as it is very likely that you have a build up of mulm just beneath the gravel that won't be helping things. To give you a comparison, if I skip a water change on my 29 gallon tank stocked with 8 Platy, the amount of crap that I pull out of the gravel 2 weeks later is jaw-dropping. Mollies and guppies both have high bioloads, Pleco are even worse. . . and with all of the others you have in this smaller tank, I imagine you would need to do water changes with vaccing 2-3 times a WEEK to catch up! If you have an extra air-stone/bubbler, now is a good time to toss it in there. These bacteria DO take up the available oxygen in the water column, and your fish could be in danger of suffocation. Lack of oxygen, to the best of my understanding, is really the only THREAT to the creatures that is caused by the actual bacteria in the water column - but the underlying cause of the bloom is really a danger to all of the life in the tank. If you don't have a bubbler, you can use those spare filters - they'll help in adding oxygen, and may give the beneficial bacteria a bit more area to colonize on - but still nowhere near enough to actually fix this tank. I'd also reccomend that you strictly limit feeding, as you're adding to the waste in the tank. Fish can actually skip a meal or two with no problems, though. . . with this crowd. . . I don't know if they'd chomp on each-other, instead of flakes.

It's impossible for me to tell from these pictures, but another very possible reason for the cloudy water is algae in the water column. Most of the above applies to this situation, as well - too much decaying organic matter to feed the algae - with the addition of keeping the lights off and/or significantly lowering the amount of time they are left on in general.

I still stand by everything I posted in my previous break-down of your situation, though. You really have some tough decisions to make if you want a healthy, thriving tank - or even two. If you refuse to take action soon, then nature_ WILL_ choose for you. 

I'm sorry, I feel for you and I've gone through it before. To look back on any of my threads will show you quite plainly that I am one who gets terribly attached to my wetpets. I consider them friends and companions, and the idea of parting with any of them is very upsetting to me - I understand how hard it can be to give up on creatures that you've become attached to - all monetary considerations aside. I also started on the wrong foot once upon a time, and I had to re-home many of my fish. It wasn't easy, but it did make me feel better to know that I was giving them all a chance at survival and a happy life that I would not be able to provide for them in my current situation. . . 

I recommended that you keep the guppies and Mollies, because that's what I chose to do back then. These are wonderful fish that can handle a few beginner mistakes and come out not *so* much worse for the wear. The others. . . are just not going to be able to manage in your tank at the present time. Today I'm running seven tanks, all of which are well-maintained and healthy (well, one fish is sick, but that's neither here nor there). Though I haven't gone down the path of the oddball fish that you seem drawn to (yet) I'm positive that if I chose to, with proper research and planning, I could keep them happy and healthy at this time. But when I started I didn't have the knowledge and understanding yet to be able to keep fish with very specific needs such as many of those you have here - and, sorry to put it bluntly, neither do you. You have a lot to learn about basic fish-keeping still, and that's okay - we all start somewhere. But for the sake of these animals. . . send them away. At least until you gain the experience necessary to keep them properly, and the proper tanks in which to do so. They WILL NOT wait for you to get a new tank (or 4) set up and cycled. These fish are very much in danger, and every day that passes will bring them closer to their end.

I think you've been given a fair idea behind many of the issues that your tank is currently facing, and I sincerely hope that you choose to give many of these fish up to ensure that they ALL are given a chance at survival. There is simply no way that you'll be able to do what you want to do at this time and with this assortment of very different species.

Good luck to you!


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Sorry it took so long to get back to you all. Here is what I have done in the meen time:
took back two kissing gormes, 2 plecos and puffer fish. 
Tested the water for amonia initial reading was an 8.0
did 50% water changes daily
hevely planted the tank 
running three filters which are filtering 250 gallons per hour
now I havent chnaged the water in 3 days and ph is a 6.5 and ammonia is a 0 water is crystal clear and so far everything looks stable. Thnaks for all the advice!


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thats really good news dodge!
Me and chesh discussed this at length and said we had offered all we could really, Jes especially with her book posts ;-) , and it was all up to you now........and im SO happy youve gone such a long way to making the changes you needed to! Especially the returning of fish, as its so hard once attached. (But i suppose not as hard as watching them die.)
Ammonia of 8.0?!?! Holy cow batman! Glad you jumped right on top of that issue and got it sorted! AS ammonia does some really severe damage to your fish, gill burning etc.

Can we have a new pic of the planted tank? Pwease!
And stocking level?

As for the 3 filters. This might be overkill once your plants are up, growing and thriving as they will do most of the work when it comes to absorbing ammonia and nitrites. Up to you, i'd just imagine having 3 is unsightly. 

also, ammonia is 0, but what were the levels of nitrites and nitrates?

So happy D.F. :-D


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

dodgefate said:


> ...will buy the biggest tank I can wife permitting.


I missed this thread altogether. Good for you for getting this back together.

This particular quote jumped off the screen... Dangerous ground you're treading there. I know enough about wives that if you have an 8' length of wall, there is already some other plan in mind that you will not be aware of until you try to take that space up. 

Then take cover.

Jeff.


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

JDM said:


> I missed this thread altogether. Good for you for getting this back together.
> 
> This particular quote jumped off the screen... Dangerous ground you're treading there. I know enough about wives that if you have an 8' length of wall, there is already some other plan in mind that you will not be aware of until you try to take that space up.
> 
> ...


Aye, and most of the time, the plan will be NOT to have an 8' tank there! 
What else will go there? NOTHING. Just NOT your tank! Haha


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Here are the pics! Cant see that much of the plants due to them being small still.... I planted 10 diffrent kinds (dont ask me to name them, I threw out the pacaging). As for the nitrates I did not buy a tester kit for that so I am still unsure I was more worried about eh ammonia levels. I still plan on getting a bigger tank after I get my money in. I told the wife I wanted 100 + gallons but she is trying to limit me to 55..... We shall see ha ha ha... I do have a pregnant guppie (lil scared of being a baby fish owner) I can see the gravity spot on her and she is starting to plump up but thats a whole other conversation. My Rafiel Catfish, Eel and flounders finaly started eating yestorday so I am super happy about that. The dalmation mollies are getting huge but not eating all the fish food in the tank. I vaccumme the gravvel twice a week for now until everything stableizes and i feel that I can back it off. Thank god for the down time at work all I have been dooing is reading about fish keeping and have learned alot. THanks again for all your help!


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Here is two of the filters, THe other one is hidden by the top and runs off of a air pump. I also forgot to say that I installed a new air stone that takes up half of the tank.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

The pics also look a bit fuzzy but thats just my cell phone camera. Sorry!


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Also I think someone mentioned that the fiddler crabs needed land.... THey climb up the plants now and hang out ontop of the filter that is in the tank when the lights are on. I think they are trying t get a tan.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Wait...those look like plastic plants, that's all I can see? 
I didn't see any live ones...


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

I thought that, but i think maybe the sword on the right is live?
If so, it really wants to come out of that pot, out of all the fibre (what is this again?_annoying_) and planted in the substrate


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

sorry bout that the plants are small and the plastic ones hide most of them on the pic, The good news is I just set up my new tank. HEre are the specs:
55 Gallon tank. 
7 medium-large plants. 
two heaters
4 foot of air stones with a 100 gallon air pump
2 FLuvale 50 gallon filters that clean 200 gph each
60 pounds of aquarium sand. 
So the next question is now how long should I let it cycle for? My tap water is well watter and after fillling the tank I added API stress zymes+ and Stress Coat + I also checked the pH and it is 7.2 and 0 on amonia.... Just wnana make sure this one is done right and I dont screw it all up like the last


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Nice upgrade.

Cycle takes as long as it takes.... I skipped it by adding tons of plants as they take up the ammonia produced by the fish and wastes immediately, no cycle needed. Water, plants and fish after the plants settle in for a few days. I found that one plant (the plants usually come in bunches, even as many as 9 or 10 depending on the store) per gallon of water is good if they are all fast growers, stems, floaters.

If plants interst you check out my plant thread as I list the plants that I used and a few other tidbits

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/aquarium-plants/shotgun-approach-planting-tank-124636/

Add fish gradually.... I went with 12 barbs on my fish addition and think, for a 37 gallon, they were a bit too much at once as my tank cycled anyway, although it was jut a quick nitrite spike. 

You still end up with all the bacteria but they don't need to be there as as large a quantity so the silent cycle is much less pronounced and much quicker... I think that most even miss the little spike that they might have depending on the fish load added.

If you are fixed on no plants and cycling or even cycling first then plants, I hear 5 weeks is not unusual.

Jeff.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

First off let me start off by thanking everyone who has given input on my monstrosity of a starter tank. I would also like to thank suishylittlefishies for introducing me to the aqadvisor. I filled my new tank up with tap water (I have a well and there is no farms nearby, so no chemicals in water), added stress coat plus (Just because and it has alo in it) and stress zimes. I waited 48 hours and transferred all of the fish over to my new tank and they are doing great. I even bought a couple of more. After taking the plants out of their holders I found out that I have a total of about 30 plants, but I left some bunched up for now. So here is the final of what I have set up, I WILL NOT be adding any more fish as the aqadvisor says I am at 77% and that is good enough for me:
SET UP
55 gallon tank
60 pounds of sand 
2 aquaclear 50 filters which filter 400 gallons per hour (I like these better because they have separate sponge, carbon and bio packets and the carbon packets are big)
2 150 watt heaters
1 100 gallon air pump running two 1.5 foot air stones
bunch of fake plants
approximately 30 live plants (6 medium Anubias barteri, 20 chlorophytum comosum and a few other ones I can not identify)
few decorations with good hiding spots.
FISH/OTHER
12 Male fancy guppies
3 pregnant female fancy guppies (If they overpopulate too much I will be a local free fish store)
2 3" banneded Gourami (I think there banded they were sold to me as Rainbow Gourami)
2 1.5" Dalmatian Mollies
2 .75" freshwater flounder
1 .75" glo fish
2 .25" neon tetra
1 3"zigzag eel (Finally found out what he was)
1 2" Raphael Catfish
2 1.5 Rainbow Sharks
2 .50" clown loach 
1 .75" left over Rosy Red Feeder fish
1 male fiddler crab
1 female fiddler crab
8 large freshwater clams 
and
10ish ghost shrimp (Leave em for food for the crabs and others) 

After all the advice I have received and all the extensive reading I feel that if there was a scale from 1-10 of fish owners I went from a -50 to at least a 3.5. I would not have been able to do it without you all! I am going to try to take a pic of the new set up with the fish in it in the next couple of days for ya all. Thanks again to everyone for everything!


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Fresh water clams, really? I've never heard much mention of these in aquariums.... sounds different. Where do you get those from?

Sounds like you've got it dialled in now, great!

With the plants you won't need or want the carbon in the filters, they suck up some of what the plants use... It might not hurt short term but may reduce the effectiveness of any fertilizers you may add and you really don't want to have to keep changing them when they expire anyway.

Jeff.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

I bought the clams at my LFS aquarium center in Blackwood New Jersey. I also live on a lake and in the summer time you can find 100s of live fresh water clams, they are a bit smaller in size in the lake but it's freshwater and they live there. The clams I got are about equivelnt to Top neck clams. I bought them because they are filter feeders and figured that nay extra filtration that I can get is good. 
As for the Carbon Filters I am going to leave them in for a month or so untill I am sure I have a good bacteria colony established after that point I I think I will remove one at a time and see if there is any changes! Thanks for this advice!!


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Those are tiny Clown loaches! 
I think your setup sounds good. One thing I wanted to point out is the Neon Tetras. They'll probably do ok with all the guppies in there but I imagine they would flourish in a shoal. If you purchase anymore fish I would probably get about 4 to 6 more of them so they will school together. Besides, they look great when they do!

About the unknown plants. You should attach some images of them and I'm sure we could figure out what is what :-D


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks for the advice on the tetras, They actuly school with the guppies right now its kind of cute! I have a pic of the new tank set up but this was before I had seporated the plants from the pots so there is just a few clumps of plants. I eneded up buying the whole set up from Petco. They had a fish expert there who was really nice. He was the one that recomened buying two filters/heaters so that way it is even throughout the tank. I told him for the plants just give me a bunch that would do well with my set up. I now understand why he kept saying this is a good bunch as he picked up what I thought was one plant. I also added the plants from the 10 gallon tank and a bought a few more.


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## rexpepper651 (Dec 25, 2012)

clams i wanted too! but i was reading if you dont have nasty water they end up just dying and foul your water badly. are those plants the big nice ones have white on the leafs? i believe i had that same plant. http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/aquarium-plants/what-kind-plants-these-126797/ we talked about how it isnt a true aquatic plant. i also got it from petco and 6 months later it died. btw i like your tank! looks great dodge. now ya just need a big rooty peice of drift wood! haha


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

I think they are chlorophytum comosum They look like a mix between a spider plant and a damn it I cant think of the other name of the plant but am pretty shure that they are chlorophytum comosum. No drift wood for me too dirty. I added alot of decorations and I have 4 good hiding spots for the fish now. If I remember Ill take a pic when I get off at 7am and upload tomarrow! I will keep you updated on the clams..... maby, hopfully, you were misinformed.....


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## rexpepper651 (Dec 25, 2012)

dodgefate said:


> I think they are chlorophytum comosum They look like a mix between a spider plant and a damn it I cant think of the other name of the plant but am pretty shure that they are chlorophytum comosum. No drift wood for me too dirty. I added alot of decorations and I have 4 good hiding spots for the fish now. If I remember Ill take a pic when I get off at 7am and upload tomarrow! I will keep you updated on the clams..... maby, hopfully, you were misinformed.....


that would be awesome we all love pics! i hope so cuz it would be cool to have a haldfull of clams in my tank. help stir up the sand a lil


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

And Just so no one gets mad at me.....When I went back to the store to purchase some supplies...... Please don't yell at me..... I bought back my Green spotted puffer fish...... I know I know I shouldn't have, but he was all alone in the tank and when he saw me he came flying up to the glass.... I just had to.... I think that I am going to convert the 10 gallon tank into a brackish water tank for him..... I know I did a bad thing but he is just so damn cute!


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

And rexpepper651 where are you from? I don't know if it would be possible or safe for a tank but come summer time I could dig up 40 or so of the small clams from the lake and send em to you.... There tiny about .25" to .50" big, black in color with a whiteish or pearlish color on the hinge.....


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## rexpepper651 (Dec 25, 2012)

im in minnesota. im not sure id have to look up the laws on that an also need to know what kind of clam they are. we have this whole huge thing about zebra mussels. im sure it would be fine tho. i wonder hwo big they get lol. that would be badass tho to have 40 clams kickin it!


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

here is what the clams look like from my lake http://www.aquariumfish.net/images_01/freshwater_clam_120213a2_w0640.jpg . I think they are Corbicula fluminea. THe ones I bought at my LFS look like your everyday clam though


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## rexpepper651 (Dec 25, 2012)

those are awesome looking! the ones online i was looking at were all white. no rules against it so we will have to give it a try an see how it goes lol


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Yea just remind me, or ill remind you come mid summer when I go swimming down the lake. They are usualy black with peices of the black peeling off like you see in the pic. When I run out of worms for fishing I usaly dig up these clams and use them as bait...


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Pictures for everyone! THis is the tank, I still have some of the plants bunched up so it may not look like as many.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Here is what was sold to me as Rainbow Gouramis. I think they are banded Gouramis though any oppinions


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Last but not least...... Here is a pic of a clown loache, shrimp and flounder fish hanging out or the flounder and loach are talking over dinner......


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Those are pearl gourami. Any idea as to the genders? Should be in a ration of 1M/2 or 3F.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

How do you tell?


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

The males will get really orange throats when they settle in to their environment, and have longer dorsal fins than the females.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

I would say then they as of now I will conceder them both females.

Back to asking for advice (Sorry). When I cam home yesterday morning from work, I noticed that the temp in the tank spieked to 80 degrees, when I usually keep it at 74 degrees. I found out that one of the impellers for the filter was stuck and heating up and I am guessing this is what caused the water temp to rise. I checked the Ph and it dropped from a 7.6 to a 6.0 and the ammonia was at a 1.0. So my question is would the lack of filtration and warmer water cause these to change so much? After the temp came back down I adjusted the ph to 7.0 and the ammonia to 0 using chemicals. Any advice would be appreciated!
Also I feed the fish about 3 pinches of flakes, 5-10 bottom feeder pellets and at night I add a cube of blood worms. All the food is gone after about 3 to 5 min. Am I over or under feeding them?


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Update: When I got home from work this morning The Ph was 7.0 (My ideal is 7.8 or at least that what I have read it should be, due to the different species of fish, low end for some and high end for others but perfect for some). The Ammonia was at a .25. While checking the tank, I located a fake plant that collected a lot of the uneaten bottom feeder pellets. I cleaned this plant off and stirred up the tank to have the filter pick up the rest then cleaned the filter elements. I also separated all of the plants that I had purchased and I have a total of 27. So questions:
1. Should I get more plants and if so how many?
2. is it ok to have a Ammonia level over 0 for a short time to feed the plants?
3. Thank you all for bearing with me as I have come a long way but still have a long way to go!


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I think the number of plants you have is fine. As far as the Ammonia goes, Having a little bit of Ammonia is Fine IMO even expected. If the Ammonia gets up to 1ppm I would start being a little more concerned. Although even then it's nothing a good water change can't handle.

As far as adjusting parameters , I would be careful using chemicals to do this because depending on what your adjusting, these numbers could bounce right back to where they were before dosing. I found that the best way to adjust things or level them out is to use Reverse Osmosis water for water changes. I'm not sure how to Naturally raise the PH to what your aiming for but I do know Driftwood will lower it slightly over time and I think plants have the same effect.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Well I have very bad news for this ongoing saga. Three days ago I went to the local petsmart and spoke to the alleged "Fish Expert". I told them about the problems that I have been having with my ph. They suggested that I use this wonderful (NOT) product called Perfect PH. I bought the product and retuned home with it. I put in the recommended amount and went to bed. Woke up the next morning and fish were ok, less the cloudy water. I went out for the day and when I returned home half of the fish were dead floating covered in a white film. I quickly scooped out the remaining alive and half-alive fish and transferred them to my 10 gallon tank that I had prepped for when the female guppies gave birth. I dumped in some slime coat and prayed for the best. when I woke up for work today (well yesterday 02/18/2013) A good portion had died. So the only survivors were the 2 Pearl Gornomies, 2 clown loaches, Raphael catfish and tire track eel. I am pretty sure that they all had a chemical burn due to the fact that after they died they all turned pale white. 
So now I am going to drain the 55 gallon tank, add fresh water and live bacteria and cycle it again. As for the ph when the tank is up and running I'm just going to leave it alone. Either the plants are responsible for lowering it after I raise it or the filters for filtering out the additive. Either way I'm just going to leave well enough alone this time ... Hopefully I don't lose any more of the fishies in the mean time. I'm not mad about loosing over $100.00 in fish but sad that they died. Now that I need to restock the tank in a few weeks any sugestions on what to get that would work well with the remaining survivors and with a ph of 6.0 or lower?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Ouch.

What are your water parameters out of the tap?

The first thing that I would suggest is to test the tap and see what your default is.... put it in a jar and shake vigorously to off gas the CO2 first as that will affect the pH level. Get the hardness as well. Maybe you've already done this, I cannot recall. Once in the tank it can change but is not going to swing wildly. If it happens to be right for your remaining fish, all the better. Don't go with fish with pH, hardness and temperature ranges that only slightly overlap. They do best in the middle of the respective ranges and if you can get fish that all line, that is best. With a pH swing like you had, I might expect that the first fish to go were on the other end of the scale with respect to pH tolerances... but that is just a guess.

You won't have to re-cycle if all you are going to do is drain and refill, the bacteria are on the surfaces, not in the water, so you won't need to add any bacteria in a bottle products. Worst case, some bacteria may have to grow back if some were lost to your water issues. Even if that is the case, the numbers that you might add with a product are a pittance compared to what you already have in the tank so they will not make any appreciable difference anyway... they are meant for starting, not maintaining the colonies. You could test this by adding some ammonia and testing the water. If the ammonia disappears and you don't see any nitrites then your tank is still OK

Oh, the fish lose their colouring pretty fast after death so they always turn whitish, that's not necessarily indicative of a chemical burn.

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear that :-(

What was the the name of the product you used and could you attach a picture of it?
Quite a few of "PH adjusters" are harmful to both fish and plants. Well, the product itself is usually harmful to the plants and I would assume it's usually the PH swing that's harmful to the fish, but I'm only a Novice as well. So, did the additive hurt any of the Plants?

I've had issues with "fish experts" as well. Including one at a LFS that swore up and down that a product called _API Proper PH_ is safe for plants when it clearly says in bold print on the back: *Not for use in Aquariums with Live Plants*. I usually disregard anything anyone says at the big box stores like Petco, Petsmart, etc... Unless of course they seem to take there job very seriously, and even then I research the heck out of it. Most of the employees there go through an elementary study program and they're all of a sudden fish experts (No offense to any of Psmart or Pco employees who actually take there job seriously :|)... Even some of the Local Fish Stores you have to be careful with. At least the Puppy Mill type places anyway.

But again, I'm sorry about the fish:-(. I've lost a few here and there and it's definitely a bummer to put all that hard work in just to have it unravel. Hopefully at this point your not giving up, you had the tank looking really nice. When I first started I had a 10 Gallon and out of nowhere I lost all of them. Fortunately it was only 7 fish. It was definitely a learning experience because all of the fish I had weren't compatible with each other, in the wrong size tank and a few other discrepancies as well. It actually gave me an opportunity to do some research, build a tank on paper and then put the plan into action... Worked out great in the end


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Sorry I haven't replied been supper busy. The water out of the tap is a 6.4. Talked to two other fish experts at non chain stores (one was a marine biologist major). They told me that the ph is low because of all of the plants and if the fish don't seem stressed then it should be fine for now. They told me that considering that the three types of ammonia test I am doing are all different and they all give me a different result (0.0 1.0 and 1.5) not to worry about the ammonia unless the fish seem stressed also. They also told me that all of the fresh water test don't give good results either and considering my plant to water to fish ratio it is probably 0. I also converted the 10 gallon tank into a breeder tank for glass shrimp (they were cheep got 60 for 4 bucks, half are pregnant and the fish like em so why not right?)
The product I used I think was called perfect ph. It was a powder based product. Plants did fine and I ended up buying some more so I'm somewhere in the 40 to 50 range of plants. 
I did do some research and now I have the following fish who all get along great! (mostly nonaggressive and the ones that will outgrow the tank it should take a good amount of time so I will have an excuse to upgrade later):
2 pearl gournomi
2 really big gold fish (one with the telescope eyes Ricky and one is a white Oranda with red looking hair patch Lucy)
2 bala sharks
7 Mollies (i think 5 are sunset mollies)
3 glass catfish
4 small clown loaches
1 Raphael cat fish 
1 Zig zag or Tire track eel


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I don't think I've seen this mentioned, but should the clams breed, I think that they produce parasitic larvae that will attach to the fish. I was there at the black wood aquarium center recently - must have missed the clams. Not that I would have gotten them.


Fish keeping can be very easy and enjoyable, or it can be very difficult and stressful. The choice is yours. Using products like perfect pH and listening to someone who says that ammonia is no big deal is going to take you down a hard road. 

Quite frankly, I can't imagine what research you could have done that would have led you to stocking the tank like that.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Well The Clams died off with the catastrophic failure that I had. Thank you for that advice I will not buy them again. In the LFS They are when you walk into the tank section bottom aquarium on the right first one in case you wanted to know. 
The reason that I had stocked that tank the way I have it is as follows:
The Tire Track Eel, Raphael cat fish, Pearl Gornamies, and clown Loaches made it through my big screw up. The Eel, Pearl Gornomies and Raphael catfish were impulse buys and the Clown Loaches I had purchased to sift through the subtrait (not knowing how big they get). The gold fish the wife picked out and they sift through the sand a lot also. The Bala Sharks seemed to fit in well and do fine with the community (no real method to them). The Mollies are fish that I like that seem to school well, they also add a lot of color to the tank and the Glass catfish were also the wife's picks.
The Ph is floating around a 6.0- 6.2 now and going by the Aquadvisor that is an ok number for the fish (little on the low side for some of them but still within perimeters). 
As for the ammonia, I had used chemicals in the tank prior to the big screw up. I am now wondering if any of them may have been an ammonia lock and I am getting a false reading. After the big screw up I drained 96-98% of the water prior to the refill and there still may have been trace amounts of the ammonia reducing chemicals that I was using (I think). The tank has 50ish plants in it, has cycled and has extra filtration (enough for 100 gallons and I took the 10 gallon filter, took out the inserts and keep it with just an ammonia reducer) so I can see it being a l reading and wouldn't understand why it would go up. 
I am willing to take any advice I get, I want the best for the fish and don't want to loose anymore. I am steering away from using any more chemicals and looking for an all natural approach to things. If you have any advice to offer, please do. I also found another local pet store (seeing as you are a fellow Jersey Person) Called Monster Pets. They have good prices and a great selection f you wana check em out. They are on the pike right off of Route 130 near Camden/Collignswood. 
I want to tank everyone again for their imput I really appriciate it. I am the type of person that would like to learn form others mistakes and not my own. I am open to anythign that anyone has to offer for advice.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I feel it's better to provide stable water chemistry rather than perfect water chemistry. Many fish are able to adjust to a wide range. Too, you can choose fish that have preferences closer to what your water is as opposed to farther away. Those are just a couple things you can do to help yourself.

Goldfish and plants don't mix. Hopefully you have plants that they don't like to eat, and hopefully you protect them well enough so that they don't get uprooted when the goldfish forage. You can place rocks around the bases to prevent them from getting uprooted.

Bala sharks get huge and are a schooling fish. Clown loaches get huge as well. They are also a warm water fish. They like water well into the 80's, and while that's something that the goldfish can tolerate well, keeping them in such warm water long term leads to problems. Clown loaches get enormous, though I hear that they are slow growers.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Stable is where I am at now. I am not going to try to mess with the ph unless I need to. The goldfish ate one of the type of plant I have but stay away from all the others so I am ok with that. They haven't up rooted any as of yet and I buried all the plants pretty deep. I have the water temp set at 74 degrees and that is a little on the high side for the gold fish but Aqadvisor says it is in the middle for everything else.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

74 is fine for goldfish, but clown loaches like water up to the high 80's.

Clown Loach (Chromobotia macracanthus) — Loaches Online


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

I feel like I need to mention this now. From the glances I've had at your tank, I don't think some of your plants are aquatic. The green one with white stripes looks like a ribbon plant, which will eventually die in the tank. Petsmart/petco and some LFS will sell these plants as aquatic, when they are in fact terrestrial. 

Also, I'm sorry but again the fish you have are not compatible. Goldfish need cool water, while most of your fish need very warm water. That is a very big deal. It will eventually kill the fish being kept in conditions like that.

Also, Bala sharks will need an 6-8ft tank, and they need a school. They also are very active and will stress out the Pearl Gourami and Goldfish, and may even pick on them. 

You claim to do research and yet, I'm sorry to say, these fish are not at all compatible nor is it fair to keep them that way. 

Mollies need hard water, and will die from being kept in such soft water.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

aqadvisor is okay for just a general idea, but it is in no means perfect, nor should you discredit what anyone has to say because of it. At the end of the day it is a machine, and cannot take into account every aspect of each fish.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Okay, I just spent several minutes putting all your fish into aqadvisor. You claim it says your fish are fine?

This is what it spat out at me.

Warning: Tire Track Eel is too aggressive to co-exist with Pearl Gourami.
Warning: Bala Shark is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 12 inches.
Warning: At least 5 x Bala Shark are recommended in a group.
Warning: Molly may become food for Bala Shark.
Warning: Glass Catfish may become food for Bala Shark.
Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Molly, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
Warning: Tire Track Eel is too aggressive to co-exist with Molly.
Warning: At least 5 x Glass Catfish are recommended in a group.
Warning: Tire Track Eel is too aggressive to co-exist with Glass Catfish.
Note: Clown Loach may pretend to be dead at times.
Warning: Clown Loach is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 12 inches.
Warning: At least 5 x Clown Loach are recommended in a group.
Note: Tire Track Eel may escape - lids are recommended.
Warning: Tire Track Eel is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 36 inches.
Warning: Tire Track Eel requires a tank with more height.
Warning: Molly may become food for Tire Track Eel.
Warning: Your selected species may eventually require 259% of your aquarium space. You may need to deal with territorial aggressions later on. Try removing some of (Balantiocheilos melanopterus, Chromobotia macracanthus, Platydoras costatus, Mastacembelus armatus) or get a larger tank.


Warning: Water temperature requirements are not fully compatible between all selected species.
=> 24 - 28C: Pearl Gourami
=> 19 - 23C: Fancy Goldfish
=> 22 - 28C: Bala Shark
=> 18 - 28C: Molly
=> 22 - 27C: Glass Catfish
=> 24 - 30C: Clown Loach
=> 22 - 28C: Raphael Catfish
=> 22 - 27C: Tire Track Eel
[Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 7 - 7.5.
Recommended hardness range: 11 - 15 dH.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

jentralala said:


> aqadvisor is okay for just a general idea, but it is in no means perfect, nor should you discredit what anyone has to say because of it. At the end of the day it is a machine, and cannot take into account every aspect of each fish.


Yes. It is a tool, and a tool is only as good as the person using it.


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

jentralala said:


> Okay, I just spent several minutes putting all your fish into aqadvisor. You claim it says your fish are fine?
> 
> This is what it spat out at me.
> 
> ...


Thats just inspiring....


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## RSully (Nov 22, 2012)

Something tells me another crash has happened, or will happen in the very near future.


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## dodgefate (Jan 25, 2013)

Sorry I haven't been on I have been having shoulder trouble and been back and fourth to the doctors. As of today I have not had any crashes. The glass catfish did not make it they kept on getting sucked up by the filter intake tubes no matter how hard I tried to cover the openings. Jentralala I don't know if you were attempting to show that the aqadvisor doesn't work the way I put things in or not but I just re-ran it and here is what I got:


Warning: *Bala Shark* is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 12 inches. 
Warning: At least *5 x Bala Shark* are recommended in a group. 
Warning: *Molly* may become food for *Bala Shark*. 
Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 *Molly*, minimum recommend male to female ratio is *1:2* (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females. 
Note: *Clown Loach* may pretend to be dead at times. 
Warning: *Clown Loach* is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 12 inches. 
Warning: At least *5 x Clown Loach* are recommended in a group. 
Note: *Zig Zag Spiny Eel* may escape - lids are recommended.
Warning: Water temperature requirements are not fully compatible between all selected species.
=> 75.2 - 82.4F: Pearl Gourami
=> 66.2 - 73.4F: Oranda Goldfish
=> 71.6 - 82.4F: Bala Shark
=> 64.4 - 82.4F: Molly
=> 75.2 - 86F: Clown Loach
=> 73.4 - 86F: Stripped Raphael Catish
=> 75.2 - 80.6F: Zig Zag Spiny Eel
[Display in Celsius]
Recommended pH range: 7 - 7.5.
Recommended hardness range: 11 - 15 dH.



You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is *198%*.
Recommended water change schedule: *15%* per week.
*Your aquarium stocking level is 57%* 
You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.
Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 198%.
Recommended water change schedule: 15% per week.
Your aquarium stocking level is 57%
I do see that as per the aqadvisor my water temp. is not compatible as you said, I keep it at 76 degrees to try to level it out and make everyone as comphy as possible. I located the source of my original problem (cloudy water) and the differences in the ammonia. I had bought new ammonia reducing pouch instead of the carbon pouch for my filters and the next day the water was cloudy and the ammonia was giving a false reading of 6.0. I changed them out for the factory type charcoal pouches. I have been doing 25% water changes every week and I am glad to say that the Ph has naturally risen to a 7.2 and the ammonia is a 0.00. I have also purchased some new plants that are thriving in the tank. They were about 6 inches tall when I purchased them about 3 weeks ago and they are about 10 inches now. The shrimp I have in the 10 gallon tank have also given birth to a few new babies but they are really hard to see. Besides that every other fish is healthy with no problems.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

What I was trying to point out were all the incompatibilities you have in your tank. Those fish should not ever be housed together, they are dying of stress as we speak. You may not be able to see the signs, but I can assure you those fish are not happy. Fish are not as nearly as adaptable as people think, you can't just toss a bunch in some water and say they'll be fine. It's a bit of an art and a science, but well worth the effort and time to create a stocking plan that has everyone happy and healthy. It's what all of the regular members here strive for, to create a natural tank where a fish can comfortably live out it's entire life cycle with special care taken to ensure they are in their proper temperature range and are co-existing with suitable fish that co-habitat similar water.

I really, really want to help you but you just continue to ignore the advice we give to you, especially regarding stocking.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

dodgefate said:


> The reason that I had stocked that tank the way I have it is as follows:
> ...made it through my big screw up. ....were impulse buys.... (not knowing how big they get).... (no real method to them). .... the wife's picks.
> ....


OK, leftover fish, fine, they are already there. The rest of the reasons for fish purchases are not reasons. Every fish purchase should be researched and thought out to be sure that they fit your particular setup in everything from water conditions to tank size and fish preference. I won't go on about the wife's involvement, it could be any other person who just wants fish for whatever reason. I have the same issue but explained to her why we are choosing fish the way we are and she needs to respect those choices and the why behind them. She wanted corals... nuff said.



dodgefate said:


> I am willing to take any advice I get, I want the best for the fish and don't want to loose anymore.
> .....


My advice is as follows, take it as you will.

Return the Loaches (too big eventually), goldfish (likes colder water) and bala sharks (eats everything... OK exaggerating but not much). There are other reasons but those are the first that come to mind and are enough on their own.

Keep the Gourami, mollies, eel and glass cats... and buy at least 3 more glass cats.

The Rapheal catfish , it's fine but it's a nocturnal fish... personally I skipped anything nocturnal as I like to see the fish... but that's me.

Stop messing with the pH and let it settle somewhere. Lots of plants will help with stability, that's a good start. If you need harder or softer or to adjust the pH there are other natural ways to do this and lots of folks with ideas to help.

Don't buy anything else, fish wise, for at least three weeks other than the glass cats.

If you want to add fish, some corys (lots of species to choose from to fit your tank and water) would be a good addition, minimum group of 6. The glass cats, even though they are catfish, are not a bottom feeder/dweller so they won't be crowding the bottom. The corys will stir up your sand well enough... if you need more disturbing of the sand, get some trumpet snails... sand stirring is not really needed as much as some let on.

That pretty much tops of your tank capacity if you did that. Keep the tank at about 77F and everyone should be happy.

Jeff.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

dodgefate said:


> The glass catfish did not make it they kept on getting sucked up by the filter intake tubes no matter how hard I tried to cover the openings. .


Healthy fish do not get sucked up by the filter. I've got 565 gph from 2 canisters on my 55 and one day old cichlid fry are capable of avoiding the filter intake. Your fish were dying and being collected by the filter - that's what filters do, they collect the water and anything haphazardly floating in it, like a dead or dying fish. Covering the openings is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound.


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## Snailtrailjoe (Apr 15, 2021)

Jeff just wanted to say all your input was helpful and good to know!! So many of us like myself get into this hobby and buy what we think looks cool even if lying to the salesman that we have a bigger tank just to get that specific fish not caring if it is recommended with what we already have. Like you said stress on a fish is not healthy. To all beginners this is more like a part time job so take your time start small and see if you like the responsibility of feeding, cleaning, water changes and worst of all water leaks and it does happen. So if you can handle all of that to me it’s worth it watching your fish grow and reproduce and enjoy the environment you have created for them. Joe.


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