# Thinking about purchasing this... opinions?



## MiamiLeos

Hey guys, I still havent gotten my tank. I'm looking at this one now. It's currently fresh, would it be difficult to convert to saltwater? What do you guys think about the contents and the price? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated, oh wise experts 

46 gallon bowfront fish tank aquarium


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## sidluckman

I would suggest a protein skimmer, of course, and perhaps a couple propeller pumps for increased circulation. I would definitely use a good amount 50-75# of live rock. Since i don't know your plans for stocking this tank (fish only, mini reef) I won't say more than this.

My concern is whether equipment like a protein skimmer can be accomodated by the hood of this tank. . .Check that out with the seller before buying. Ask for pictures of the top of the aquarium and the hood, and anything else that isn't clear to you at this point.


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## MiamiLeos

I would like to have a mini reef. I was thinking that the protein skimmer, filter, and possibly a sump could go in the cabinet below the tank. The tank currently has two on-back filters. Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think those would suffice for a saltwater reef system. 

The guy has come down to $200


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## sidluckman

You are probably correct there. I wouldn't do a reef with these filters alone. Is the tank equipped with over- flows or will you have to put one in as well? That's another pretty large piece of equipment. But then your skimmer could be "downstairs." Even better. 

I would also ask the guy to shoot some close-ups of the front glass to make sure it's not a scuffed up mess. I just think it would be a drag to invest in all the other equipment if, at the end, it looks like you've just set up a badly worn tank. I just don't want to see you get screwed over, and I am perennially mistrustful of people hawking stuff on craig's list.

I don't know what the potential is for retro-fitting the lighting, or whether the T-5 is adequate for a decent selection of corals. Another thing to consider. . .


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## Reefing Madness

$200, go fo it man. Mechanical filters are not used in SW tanks. Don't need them but maybe to run GFO or Carbon or ChemiPure Elite.
Sump under the tank would be a huge benefit for you.
#1-Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhikers on Live Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way you go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.
#2-Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter) Which is really not necessary.
#3-Multiple Power heads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph power heads.
#4-Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume
#5-Saltwater Test Kits. Reef Test Kit. Test for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.
#6-Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish.
#7-Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one
#8-Rubber kitchen gloves
#9-Fish net
#10-Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets
#11-Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best.
#12-Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock.
#13-Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.
#14-Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.
#15-Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank
#16-Heater rated for your size tank.
#17-Saltwater Mix. Marine Salt. Instant Ocean is the cheap Salt that beginners and Advanced use alike.
#18-Saltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurate. There is also a Digital Meter that is way advanced if you have the cash.
#19-Aquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, or GFO and such)
#20-Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed coral. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.


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## sidluckman

That's a great post. Honestly. You should publish that or they should use it as a resource on this forum in general. 

I used about half and half dry and live rock, but I understand that the risks are more dire to a reef versus FOWLR system should certain critters stow-away.

Got forbid you should hear that horrid clicking sound in the middle of the night. . .


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## Reefing Madness

sidluckman said:


> That's a great post. Honestly. You should publish that or they should use it as a resource on this forum in general.
> 
> I used about half and half dry and live rock, but I understand that the risks are more dire to a reef versus FOWLR system should certain critters stow-away.
> 
> Got forbid you should hear that horrid clicking sound in the middle of the night. . .


 I hear ya there, clicking from the tank in the middle of the night would bring a shiver to my spine.


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## wake49

What do you plan on doing with the livestock he is selling with the tank? Not many stores will just take fish that weren't bought there as not to risk infection...

I ran a 46 bow reef and pretty much used a list like reefingmadness suggested. I used a CPR self-starting overflow box. I ran it through a twenty high sump that I made myself. There I ran a coralife super-skimmer (could've used a better skimmer than this).


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## Reefing Madness

wake49 said:


> What do you plan on doing with the livestock he is selling with the tank? Not many stores will just take fish that weren't bought there as not to risk infection...
> 
> I ran a 46 bow reef and pretty much used a list like reefingmadness suggested. I used a CPR self-starting overflow box. I ran it through a twenty high sump that I made myself. There I ran a coralife super-skimmer (could've used a better skimmer than this).


 Ah, but Coralife Skimmer can be made to run excellent:
Tyler Merrick Blog Archive Modifing the Coralife Super Skimmer CSS
And then modify the Wheel


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## 92smokeaccord

id jump on it! the light alone is worth about $200.


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## MiamiLeos

I'm a horrible noobie here, I'm so sorry but I still dont know what all the acronyms are yet lol. I will have to rehome the fish somehow. He wont sell it without them. Do I need an overflow? For some reason I thought that a pipe with a siphon break leading from the tank into the sump/filter below would be ok. Again, so sorry for all the noobyness. I am really trying to figure out how the whole under part of the tank works (I'm not a terribly mechanical person, but once I get the hang of it, it's all good). ReefingMadness - Thank you so much for that list, it will for sure help me immensely! 

I do want to do a full reef system with some soft corals and mushrooms. Nothing too sensitive or needing expertise. So I was planning on live sand and live rock, but these are not good to start a tank with? I thought you wanted the hitch hikers and such that tagged along with the live sand/rock?

Would it be better for me to get a new reef ready tank from one of the aquarium stores?


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## MiamiLeos

Also, it says it has a T5 light, but really, I don't know exactly what that means. I know lights are expensive and I believe T5 is a brand or type of light but since he's running freshwater, how can I know that this light will be good for saltwater too?


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## MiamiLeos

Theres also a 30 gallon for sale that's already running saltwater, but isnt 30 a bit small for the sake of water stability? I wouldnt be able to put much in it either I dont think..


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## wake49

What is your proprosed stocking list? And for the life of this tank, without planning a larger one. No tangs, a lot of angels are off limits, most triggers, most puffers, and I think parrots are off limits too. So, what type and how many of each?


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## MiamiLeos

I havent started a stocking list yet. The only list I have was for a 75 gallon, but I am a bit intimidated by how much space, time, and money it would cost to set up and maintain a tank of that size so I am looking for something smaller. Not set on a particular size though, so I havent started a stocking list.


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## wake49

Well, always buy a tank based on the fish you are going to buy, never buy a fish based on the tank you are going to buy. 

What is that 75 stocking list?


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## MiamiLeos

Here's what I wanted in the 75. This list was made over a year ago so even if I did get a 75 today, it wouldnt be exactly the same. I've seen a few more fish and reconsidered some, but here's a general idea.

Fish-

Flame Hawkfish
Bicolor Angelfish
2 Clowns
Yellow Watchman Goby
a few Blue/Green Chromis
and eventually Mandarin Dragonet

Inverts-

Electric Blue Hermit Crab
Red/Marbled Sea Star
Banded Trochus snail
Spiny Star Astrea
Orange Turbo Snail
Astrea Turbo Snail
Yellow Banded Coral Shrimp
Feather Duster

Corals (I would pick a few of these)-

Trumpet/Candy Cane
Red Candy Cap
Button Coral
Sunflower Coral
Chili Coral
Pipe Organ Coral
Toadstool Mushroom Leather

Plants- 

Smooth Kelp on Rock
Shaving Brush Plant
Mermaids Fan Plant


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## 92smokeaccord

MiamiLeos said:


> I'm a horrible noobie here, I'm so sorry but I still dont know what all the acronyms are yet lol. I will have to rehome the fish somehow. He wont sell it without them. Do I need an overflow? For some reason I thought that a pipe with a siphon break leading from the tank into the sump/filter below would be ok. Again, so sorry for all the noobyness. I am really trying to figure out how the whole under part of the tank works (I'm not a terribly mechanical person, but once I get the hang of it, it's all good). ReefingMadness - Thank you so much for that list, it will for sure help me immensely!
> 
> I do want to do a full reef system with some soft corals and mushrooms. Nothing too sensitive or needing expertise. So I was planning on live sand and live rock, but these are not good to start a tank with? I thought you wanted the hitch hikers and such that tagged along with the live sand/rock?
> 
> Would it be better for me to get a new reef ready tank from one of the aquarium stores?


that t5 light is pretty much perfect for coral and anemones.things are crazy expensive new and still high up there used because ppl always want them.for a easy reef set up for a sump with out going nuts is a overflow and a return pump with a long enough hose to reach the top of the display tank.


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## MiamiLeos

If I had the space and the guts to go for it I would really like something like this:

75 gallon fish tank with everything


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## wake49

Stocking list looks good for fish, except I would stay away from the dragonet. You need a very well established aquarium with a lot of live rock. They only eat copepods and amphipods and can devour thousands (that might be an exageration, but you get the idea). They are hard to keep alive. 

Inverts are fine as far as I see. 

Stay away from the sunflower and maybe the pipe organ. The sunflowers are hard to keep alive even by seasoned aquarists. They are kept by feeding them, and are not as dependant on light as they are on food. The pipe organ can also be challenging. 

I know nothing about sea grass.


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> If I had the space and the guts to go for it I would really like something like this:
> 
> 75 gallon fish tank with everything



I would go for this, but use the wet/dry as a modified sump. I am not a fan of bio-balls.


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## MiamiLeos

I would go for a bigger tank except I'm intimidated by the upkeep and also, this is going in my bedroom so I have limited space. And yea, I would take bioballs out of anything lol


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## lamberb2

wake49 said:


> Stocking list looks good for fish, except I would stay away from the dragonet. You need a very well established aquarium with a lot of live rock. They only eat copepods and amphipods and can devour thousands (that might be an exageration, but you get the idea). They are hard to keep alive.


The mandarin dragonets that you purchase from the LFS could be tank raised now, i know the LFS i go to tank raises them and they don't only feed on the copepods and amphipods mentioned above, just thought i'd share.


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## MiamiLeos

I'm not even sure if I could keep the manderin in a 46 gallon. But even if I chose to get one it would be well after the tank was established and yea I know of at least one LFS near me who has ones that eat pre made food, though I'm not sure if they are tank raised, probably. 

I really like the 46 bow front. It's the perfect size and I do like the bow front aspect. I have a spare 10 gallon tank that I could use for a sump/refugium. Would this be large enough do you think? When using a sump/fuge, where exactly does the filtering aspect come in? Is it all taken care of with the live rock and protein skimmer? Or do you put some sort of carbon filter or sponge in somewhere?

You guys are awesome, just wanted to say thanks to everyone who's been SO helpful to me!!!


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## wake49

Take a look at my profile. I should have a picture of my sump and the configuration. I can't remember if if was the 46 or 150 that had the sump pic. Otherwise tomorrow I will upload a pic in this thread for you.


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## 92smokeaccord

MiamiLeos said:


> If I had the space and the guts to go for it I would really like something like this:
> 
> 75 gallon fish tank with everything


if im not mistaken that 75 is almost the same size as the 46..only difference is the 75 is wider.i believe its the same length.


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## wake49

92smokeaccord said:


> if im not mistaken that 75 is almost the same size as the 46..only difference is the 75 is wider.i believe its the same length.



75's are usually four feet I length, while that 46 bow I am pretty sure is 3 feet. I would still go for the 75. For the extra foot, you upgrade your fish selection.


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## MiamiLeos

the 46 gallon is 36" long, the 75 is 48" long, believe it or not that makes a big difference to me lol


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## MiamiLeos

It's not just the extra foot, it just seems like soooo much more water, coral, and fish to take care of. I just dont want to overextend myself here is all, so I'm a little hesitant.


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## MiamiLeos

Another thing is that I'm a single 21 year old lady lol. I can't be movin huge tanks by myself in my little accord hahaha


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## 92smokeaccord

MiamiLeos said:


> the 46 gallon is 36" long, the 75 is 48" long, believe it or not that makes a big difference to me lol


its not really a difference your gonna see but hey you will be happy and so will your fish.


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## wake49

Ok, so with 46 you will want:

1) 4"+ deep sand bed, or 1/2" deep sand bed. Since you have a Watchman on the list, I would go 4"+. No less than 4", because that can trap detritus and have an adverse effect on your calcium and alkalinity.

2) I would personally buy about 100 lbs of Dry Rock. You can order it online or go to your LFS and pick it up. Dry Rock is usually harvested from dead reefs and does not have the biological impact that "Live" Rock has. Once you add the Dry Rock to your tank, go to your LFS and ask for five lbs of Live Rock rubble. Try to get him to give you rubble that is jumping with copepods and amphipods. 

With Dry Rock, it is not as much about the weight of the rock, but more the appearance: Does it look like 1/2 - 2/3 of the tank volume is taken up with rock? That is about where you want to be. I keep extra in case I need to remove a rock of aptasia or want to start a frag tank.

3) Two powerheads. I prefer Hydor Koralias. I would use two, probably the Evolution 750 and the Evolution 1050. I used to use a 2 & and a 3 (that is the older equivalents of the Evolution series. These Evolution are a little more powerful and able to be hooked up to a wavemaker) in my 46 bow, and felt the flow was perfect.

4) A protein skimmer. I was never good as choosing these. I bought my fair share of skimmers and never felt that they ran well. I used the Prizm by Red Sea, the Sea Clone (I think it is by Marineland), the Coralife SuperSkimmer (Needle Wheel model), and another no name model I bought off a buddy. Never happy. I would probably see if you can get a Super Skimmer (get the 125 gallon model) cheap and modify it as Reefing Madness suggested. If you don't go the sump route, you will use this as a HOB (hang on back) skimmer. That might push a lot of unsightly bubbles in the tank. It will take a lot of adjusting to rectify this.

5) For a new system, I would use a Quarantine tank. This is like a 15 gallon tank that you will store any new purchases until you know they are disease free. Do this bare bottom, no rock. I usually put a few pieces of 3" PVC for the fish to hide in. Use a HOB filter like a whisper and leave them in there for a week or two, depending on if you use hyposalinity treatments to assure they're disease free.

6) Lights. I almost want to say that I hate this subject. There is no good way to determine what light you will need until you fully stock your tank. This will depend on levels of the corals (both difficulty and actual placement in the tank) and the amount of Live Rock you have. In a lightly stocked tank, too much light can be detrimental and create algae, in a heavily stocked tank not enough light will stunt the coral's growth and cause them to be unhealthy. I used a Metal Halide fixture that had two T5HO for actinics and lunar lights on my 46 at one time, and I also used a 6 bulb T5HO (3 Daylights, 3 Actinics) for a length of time. I liked the power consumption of the T5HO's but I hate buying 6 bulbs once a year. 46 Bows are tall, so you need a lot of light penetration. I would say LED, but I don't know how well they operate. I have no real experience with them.

7) Test kits. Once you establish your tank, pH, Nitrite and Ammonia should stay steady. There should be no real reason to test them, maybe once a month or every other month unless something goes drastically wrong. Otherwise, the important tests are Calcium and Alkalinity. Make sure these are in the range of 400-460 ppm on Calcium and dKH 8-12 on Alkalinity. This will be acheived through dosing. I also test Nitrates on a regular basis to make sure that my system is not producing too much Nitrate. With a deep sand bed and an ample amount of Live Rock, my Nitrates should be converted to Nitrogen gas and leave the system naturally. This Nitrate check will help me ensure that.

8) Dose Calcium and Alkalinity on a regular basis as indicated by your test kits. I did 25% water changes every other week to replace trace elements.

Sorry for the wall of text, let me know if you have any questions.


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## Reefing Madness

Volusion Demo Store
Bulk Dry Live Rock - Bulk Reef Supply
macro rock - Google Search
2 New 800GPH Wave Maker Aquarium Water Pump Powerhead 3000L/H Circulation Reef | eBay
Aquarium Water Pumps & Water Movement: Marineland Maxi-Jet PRO
Water Pumps & Wavemakers: Hydor Koralia Nano 240 & 425


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## MiamiLeos

You guys are so awesome!!!! Thank you both for your time and expertise! Would this skimmer be acceptable to go in a 10 gallon sump/fuge?

Lee's Counter Current Protein Skimmer at PETCO

And as far as dosing for Calcium and Alkalinity, I assume this means adding a supplement to the tank?


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## MiamiLeos

And about the dry and live rock... I live on the coast of south FL. Is there any way I could harvest this myself, rather than paying $2/lb for it?


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> And about the dry and live rock... I live on the coast of south FL. Is there any way I could harvest this myself, rather than paying $2/lb for it?


Again, I use dry rock because of the lack of ecological impact. I am pretty sure that the sites Madness supplied do have rock that was harvested from the "dead" reefs. I bought my most recent Dry Rock purchase from Drs Fosters and Smith for 69.99 for 40# and free shipping. I am receiving it tomorrow and let you know how it looks. It is noted as "zero-impact" on living reefs.

I also think that you need a license to collect rock and such from the coast, and getting caught could result in fines/prison...

That picture of my sump I promised:


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## MiamiLeos

fines/prison...


Well then. LOL. I suppose I will just look for some good deals!

Sump looks nice! Did you get the plexi glass and silicone from a hardware store? Is it expensive?


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> fines/prison...
> 
> 
> Well then. LOL. I suppose I will just look for some good deals!


Bet you never thought that the hobby of fishkeeping would turn you into a hardened criminal...



MiamiLeos said:


> Sump looks nice! Did you get the plexi glass and silicone from a hardware store? Is it expensive?


This is a twenty nine gallon that I traded a prefilter for a my LFS. I work at a hardware store, so I had the plexiglass here. For the silicone, you are supposed to use "aquarium safe" silicone. I think that I used GE silicone 1 (I think they denote it as "I"). Do not use "2" or "II", it has an algaecide in it that will be toxic to the tank. If you can get it, use the "aquarium safe" stuff.

You also can't see the inlet chamber that housed the skimmer, it was to the left in the pic. the three pieces of plexi you can see are a bubble trap, which kept the microbubbles that my skimmer produced from entering the tank via the return pump.


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## MiamiLeos

I dont want to do anything illegal, but it's just hard for me to understand why I have to pay someone to go harvest rock from the ocean when theres TONS of dead rock everywhereeeeee. Pieces like this and nicer! This one was on my way to pay for my fall semester today. I honestly cant imagine its illegal to take a rock from somewhere. They're doing construction on the highway right now and they're literally digging up bucket loads of dead coral. I'm not joking when I say I live on a dead reef lol.


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## wake49

Hey, if you can get it for free (and you don't think it's illegal) go for it. Maybe ask the guys digging what they are doing with it. I would be a bit concerned for heavy metals that might have settled into the rock from the soil having an adverse effect on the tank. Personally I would rather pay and know it is safe.

If you do take this, I would soak it in RO/Di water for about six weeks before using, changing the water every week. Test the water at the end of each week and see if anything is dying off in there. I would also pick up a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter and see if anything heavy is seeping out of the rock at the end of each week.


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## MiamiLeos

Hmm.. that sounds like a PITA. I dont suppose I could just soak it in a mild bleach solution for a day or two then thoroughly rinse it and let it dry? Or what about baking or boiling it? If not then I'll prob just purchase some


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> Hmm.. that sounds like a PITA. I dont suppose I could just soak it in a mild bleach solution for a day or two then thoroughly rinse it and let it dry? Or what about baking or boiling it? If not then I'll prob just purchase some


PITA - that is my father's nickname. He has a tendency to make everything a pain in the... well you know.

I don't like soaking anything in bleach that is going in a fish tank. Also, that has no effect on the possible heavy metals that you have to ensure are not in the rock. These heavy metals can be very detrimental to the system. I also don't think that baking or boiling will help with the heavy metal problem.


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## MiamiLeos

Haha! Well I can relate as I am being a PITA noob to you guys lmao! Yea I'll just have to suck it up and purchase some from the LFS then. How long should it take for all the rock and sand to become live? I think I'm going to get dead and just seed it with some live.


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> You guys are so awesome!!!! Thank you both for your time and expertise! Would this skimmer be acceptable to go in a 10 gallon sump/fuge?
> 
> Lee's Counter Current Protein Skimmer at PETCO
> 
> And as far as dosing for Calcium and Alkalinity, I assume this means adding a supplement to the tank?


No, that skimmer is not going to work. Might think maybe abiut a Nano Hydor. And yes, you will have to dose suppliments in the tank to keep parameters in check.


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## MiamiLeos

Ouch, that's a bit expensive :/ What makes that skimmer better over the one from PetCo? What should I look for in a skimmer?

Is this better
Marineland 100 In-Sump Protein Skimmer for Aquarium 9-31 | eBay


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## MiamiLeos

I think I found one you guys will approve of 

Protein Skimmer Filter Pump With Power Head Fish Tank Aquarium Tank Salt Water 813373012163 | eBay


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## Reefing Madness

Nope, see how the air intake is after the pump, means the pump isn't choppin up the water and air together. The skimmer is the one thing that is crucial to your system, this piece of equipment you don't want to skimp on, trust me. 
Eshopps 100H Hang On GenII Protein Skimmer w/ pump | eBay
Coralife 125G Skimmer | eBay
Sorry I can't be of more help there. I'm tryin to give you chepos that are still great.


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## wake49

I ran that Coralife 125. I will say: for the money, it gets the job done. You will have to clean it regularly though. If the neck gets too dirty, it doesn't skim all that well. 

I did have a red sea Berlin with a needle wheel that I felt did the best job. Same thing though: if it was dirty, no skimmate was produced. 

Madness is right. Don't skimp here. I have a bucket full of half rate skimmers (Seaclone, Prizm) that would've saved me a couple hundred if I never even bought them. A month after each purchase I was looking for a better skimmer.


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## MiamiLeos

Dangit! I thought I had it! I'm gonna try to get the Coralife 125. I dont want to skimp on quality, it's just that I still dont know exactly how they work. I have a general idea though


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## MiamiLeos

Are used skimmers okay to get or no because of contamination?


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## Reefing Madness

used skimmer is ok to use, no problem.


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## Reefing Madness

I run a Coralife 220 Super Skimmer. But I modifed mine. I use a pump thats like the old Reef Octopus Needle Wheel Impellar and took off all the flex lines to run pvc. Works like a charm modified.


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## MiamiLeos

This one looks like the air and water come in at the same time and place. Could this work? It's in my price range and I can buy it now


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## MiamiLeos

sorry, here's the link:

New JEBO Aquarium Tank Protein Skimmer 180 w/Power Head | eBay

It's a hang on, but could I hang it onto the sump?


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## Reefing Madness

Sorry, I won't put a seal of approval on that one. Not saying not to try any that you pick, but you'll just end up buying another one. Its up to you now. You know the picks.


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## MiamiLeos

Killin me Madness! lol I had no idea how much skimmers costed until a few days ago. I mean holy cow it's just a 46 gallon and the skimmers more expensive than the tank! lmao


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## Reefing Madness

:-D. I hear ya man. But its got to be, unless you have a Algae Turf Scrubber, the most important part of the tank. Now, you can always skip it, and do 10-20% water changes a week, which in the long run will kill you in salt costs. But, if you do it this way, you'll have to watch your parameters like a hawk, and if they start to slip up, you should be prepared to do 50-75% water changes to bring them in line.


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## MiamiLeos

I wouldnt be able to get a Coralife 65g would I?


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> I wouldnt be able to get a Coralife 65g would I?


The funny thing with skimmers is that even though most have a rating on them gallon wise, there is no way to tell what they actually do. The problem is that the variable is: how many fish you have, how many corals, what type of corals and the water to live rock volume. Since all these things differ drastically tank to tank, it is important to decide how heavy you are going to stock the tank prior to purchasing the skimmer.

To answer your question: Yes, there are situations that the Coralife 65g would work well in a 46 bow tank. Stock a few fish, a few low-light corals and keep a good amount of Live Rock in the tank.

On a side note, if you go with a Venturi-style (like the Coralife) skimmer, keep in mind that the pump will be in the tank and it can be an eyesore. Google images of the Super-skimmer as a Hang-on-back unit and make sure you are ok with it. While Counter Current skimmers do not work as well as Venturi-style (although some say you can mod them to work as well, but I do not know about that...), they certainly are less obtrusive.


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## wseidl515

Please correct me if I'm wrong guys, but would it be possible for her to run the new ASM mini on this tank?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wake49

wseidl515 said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong guys, but would it be possible for her to run the new ASM mini on this tank?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this in-sump or HOB? We haven't really found out if she is going sump or not yet...


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## Reefing Madness

wseidl515 said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong guys, but would it be possible for her to run the new ASM mini on this tank?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yes, that would be one option, but that price I know we can do better.


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## Reefing Madness

Reef Octopus NWB-200 Protein Skimmer | eBay


Now here you go, I totally forgot about this one. I do believe that its in your price range also. This one will work for you. Providing you are going to use a sump. If not my bad, let me know, I'll sontinue the search for you.
Protein Skimmer Filer Power Pump Large Aquarium Fish Tank Sal Water New | eBay


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> I wouldnt be able to get a Coralife 65g would I?


 Yes, yoiu could use that one. Provided you could do some modifications on it to make it a good skimmer.
Tyler Merrick Blog Archive Modifing the Coralife Super Skimmer CSS


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## MiamiLeos

I was planning on an in sump skimmer yes. But I'm getting really intimidated guys  I mean, if the skimmer is over $100 (originally I had planned on spending $50 for a skimmer) than the up keep must be so expensive as well. I'm a full time student right now and would love this beautiful relaxing seascape in my room, but if it's going to cost me hundreds a month to maintain, I just dont think I can do it at this point in my life :'(


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## 92smokeaccord

MiamiLeos said:


> I was planning on an in sump skimmer yes. But I'm getting really intimidated guys  I mean, if the skimmer is over $100 (originally I had planned on spending $50 for a skimmer) than the up keep must be so expensive as well. I'm a full time student right now and would love this beautiful relaxing seascape in my room, but if it's going to cost me hundreds a month to maintain, I just dont think I can do it at this point in my life :'(


the up keep to a skimmer is next to nun.actually its back wards.the cheaper the skimmer the more you have to clean and or fix depends if its broke.the more expensive models sometimes have a way of self cleaning besides the catch bowl and last longer too.i belive the only things you have to clean on a skimmer is the catch bowl.


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## MiamiLeos

Maintenance of the entire tank though.. very costly?


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## 92smokeaccord

MiamiLeos said:


> Maintenance of the entire tank though.. very costly?


nope just the equipment is expensive. only thing you should have to do is acquire equipment.ro system,skimmer,overflow,sump setup and what not.once its filled put some cured rock in and let it all grow.only thing that should cost you after all said and done is fish and food.if you get a reallly good skimmer you may only need todo a water change once a few months.depends on your fish's bio load.


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> Maintenance of the entire tank though.. very costly?


The initial investment is the worst. Your energy bills will go up, as lights and pumps and heaters draw a lot of electricity. On my 150 gallon my energy bill was about $75.00 more a month (I discovered this afterwards when there was a $75 reduction in the bill). I was also running a 468 Watt light, 2 300 watt heaters and like five pumps (if you include the skimmer pump and powerheads).

If you are running a 46 Bow, your electric bill will go up depending on how intense your lights are and how many pumps you need. You need powerheads to keep the water moving and heaters to keep it at a consistent temperature. 

Other maintenence really only includes dosing chemicals, buying fish food and of course, fish.


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## MiamiLeos

So after the initial $500+ the monthly maintenance costs would be approx how much do you think? Food, supplements, water changes, fish replacements etc


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> So after the initial $500+ the monthly maintenance costs would be approx how much do you think? Food, supplements, water changes, fish replacements etc


After salt mix, chemicals and food I would say $40.

Energy - $35

Lost fish or new acquisition - You could make a budget for this, but I would be known for spending $40 a week at the LFS! Maybe $25?

So at least $100 a month?


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## 92smokeaccord

wake man i didnt know you live in CT..im in meriden CT.lol small word!!

anyway yes for that 46 the full about cost from start to finish is from 1000 to about $1200 depending on if you find any deals or what not.


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## Reefing Madness

A month? If you average it out for a year, for me, $30-40 a month.


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## 92smokeaccord

Reefing Madness said:


> A month? If you average it out for a year, for me, $30-40 a month.


i just did the math on mine...when i had 5 tanks ranging from 55 gallon up to 100 gallons.my monthly bill was a $40-$50 increase .now its just 3 but with a 150,125 and a 55 gallon tank.it went down to $25-$30 a month.it will probably go bac up once i get my reef light setup and my skimmer.it will still stay around $40 a month tho..


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## wake49

Reefing Madness said:


> A month? If you average it out for a year, for me, $30-40 a month.











This is the spreadsheet right from CT Light & Power (of course I got rid of my personal info)

We had a power outage in early March that nuked my tank. I sold it in mid-March, so the February and April bills are a good indicator of how much power I was using to run this tank.


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## wake49

92smokeaccord said:


> wake man i didnt know you live in CT..im in meriden CT.lol small word!!


My wife works in Meriden and my father lives there. It is quite a small world...


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## 92smokeaccord

wake49 said:


> My wife works in Meriden and my father lives there. It is quite a small world...


we should chill.im actually looking for some reef equipment.pm if your interested.


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## wake49

Will do. I don't have a lot of good stuff left, but I do like to trade frags and what not.


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## MiamiLeos

Electricity is included in my rent so I wont have to worry about that. What I do have to worry about is a power outage. I live in south FL where we have a lot of storms at a certain time of the year and it wouldnt be unheard of for the power to go out for as much as 12 hours at a time (usually its only about 3-5 though). And then the horrifying reality of a hurricane which can take power lines out for days, possibly weeks. How much can a reef aquarium tolorate as far as power outages?


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> Electricity is included in my rent so I wont have to worry about that. What I do have to worry about is a power outage. I live in south FL where we have a lot of storms at a certain time of the year and it wouldnt be unheard of for the power to go out for as much as 12 hours at a time (usually its only about 3-5 though). And then the horrifying reality of a hurricane which can take power lines out for days, possibly weeks. How much can a reef aquarium tolorate as far as power outages?


In the case of power outages you have to find ways to both regulate the temperature of the tank and make sure the tank stays oxygenated. I used to use a battery backup, some use battery powered air pumps and either ice cubes (in the case where people use chillers) or hot water bags (for those of us that heat the tank).


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## MiamiLeos

So I would just have to get a battery powered air pump and powerhead then? That seems doable. How long would my tank stay alive in this situation?


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> So I would just have to get a battery powered air pump and powerhead then? That seems doable. How long would my tank stay alive in this situation?


Indefinitely as long as that pump runs and the temperature is regulated. Without oxygenating the water I think within a few hours the fish will use up their oxygen supply.

Of course, I would do larger water changes if this were to be a prolonged period of time.


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## MiamiLeos

Would I have to buy a bunch of battery powerheads (20x the flow) or would one be okay for say up to 3 days?


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> Would I have to buy a bunch of battery powerheads (20x the flow) or would one be okay for say up to 3 days?


In this situation, survival is more your plan. Obviously the greater the flow the better, but whatever you can do to get the surface of the water to make an air exachange will help.


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## MiamiLeos

Got it. I just really do not want to invest all this cash into this tank and in a few months have the whole thing die and have to start over :/


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## 92smokeaccord

i have a primitive set up but worked for when we lost power for a week.its a set of 4 used car batterys with a power converter(you kno the converters that allow you to put a dvd or play station in your car).the converter is a 2000watt 12volt to 120 ac like this one but bigger.
XANTREX XPOWER 1000 WATT POWER INVERTER & 2000 WATT SURGE AC/DC CONVERTER GREEN | eBay


i hooked the heater and the power head and my return pump.ran for about 3 days.but id charge one batt at a time every other day in my car for about a hr or take a drive...its a pain but came threw in a clutch when i needed it..


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## MiamiLeos

So I told the guy I would take the tank set up for $200 if it didnt have any scratches. I dont want to be a jerk and back out of the deal, but if I change my mind do you think I could get my money back easily? It's a 46gal bowfront with a black back and stand. Should I go for it?


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## Reefing Madness

*GO FOR IT!!! JUMP IN!!!*

As for getting your money back, doubtful.


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## MiamiLeos

I know I wont get my money back for the fish and stuff, but for the setup I mean. Do you think if I wanted to I could resell?


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> I know I wont get my money back for the fish and stuff, but for the setup I mean. Do you think if I wanted to I could resell?


 Doubtful. He's gettin rid of it cuz he doesn't want it anymore.


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> I know I wont get my money back for the fish and stuff, but for the setup I mean. Do you think if I wanted to I could resell?


I am pretty sure that I sold my 46 for at least 200.


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## MiamiLeos

He said he looked close and it had a few faint scratches. Should that affect what I pay for it? Can I use something to get rid of the scratches?


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> He said he looked close and it had a few faint scratches. Should that affect what I pay for it? Can I use something to get rid of the scratches?


Does it have water in it? Sometimes you can't even see the scratches when the tank is full. Ask him if you can go see it, and haggle him down. Start @$150. Show him the money and you might walk out with a steal...


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## MiamiLeos

He said that he never knew they were there cus the tank is full and he only looked cus I asked if it had scratches. I dont want to be rude and offer too little, but I need to save $ anywhere I can for this


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## MiamiLeos

He's not comin down on the price.. he got a bit rude. It's in a not so nice part of town. I wish I had a friend to bring along lol


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## MiamiLeos

Just saw this one..

57 Gallon Aquarium, Lights, LIVE SAND, stand


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> Just saw this one..
> 
> 57 Gallon Aquarium, Lights, LIVE SAND, stand


 Very nice there.


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## MiamiLeos

Not sure if I like the rimless look though


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> Not sure if I like the rimless look though


 Very clean look to them.


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## MiamiLeos

It looks nice, but I would worry that evaporation would happen so fast that the water chemistry would change too rapidly. I'm in a warm place and although we have high humidity, things still evaporate pretty quick lol


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## MiamiLeos

Do you think the lights and set up are good for the price? Im going to email for a pic of the "plumbing"


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> Just saw this one..
> 
> 57 Gallon Aquarium, Lights, LIVE SAND, stand


I would definitely grab this if I were you. The light fixture is nice, and it seems to be almost a complete setup. He doesn't mention the rock and put live sand in all caps. You might still have to buy rock...


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> It looks nice, but I would worry that evaporation would happen so fast that the water chemistry would change too rapidly. I'm in a warm place and although we have high humidity, things still evaporate pretty quick lol


 Na, its going to happen anyways. I live in AZ and I don't have any lids on my tank. I add like 3-4 gallons every 3 days.


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## MiamiLeos

On the 240 gal? So I should only have to add maybe 2 gal a week to this one theoretically?


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## 92smokeaccord

MiamiLeos said:


> On the 240 gal? So I should only have to add maybe 2 gal a week to this one theoretically?


how you figure..maybe from just evap alone.take account the skimmer and some fish tend to get jumpy.also the lighting will make water evap faster.


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## MiamiLeos

That's another reason I'm not sure about rimless.. Jumpy fish. If anything does decide to jump out, they will definitely be a new play toy for my dog lol


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## 92smokeaccord

MiamiLeos said:


> That's another reason I'm not sure about rimless.. Jumpy fish. If anything does decide to jump out, they will definitely be a new play toy for my dog lol


they shouldn't really jump.just feed them food that sink and keep the current down some..fish usually like to jump if they are in a strong current.


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## MiamiLeos

The person said it's got a wet/dry filter and a 90gph coralife skimmer. I think I like this one a little better than the 46 bowfront. I would deff convert the filter to a refugium and take the bioballs out


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> The person said it's got a wet/dry filter and a 90gph coralife skimmer. I think I like this one a little better than the 46 bowfront. I would deff convert the filter to a refugium and take the bioballs out


Did you ask about the live rock? He shows it, but doesn't mention it in the post...


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## MiamiLeos

So I talked to the guy and he raised the price from when the CL add was posted a month ago because he says he got a new skimmer for it, the coralife. Anyways I was like it says this price on CL so we talked and haggled some more and basically what we ended up agreeing on was $500 for everything, the whole setup, lights, filter return pump, skimmer etc, etc, the live sand and a bit of live rock so I can cycle the tank with it and seed the dead rock I'll end up buying. Did I do okay? I feel like it's a pretty good deal.


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## wake49

I think it is. Basically an entire setup, add rock & fish. 

I would go for it if I were you.


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## MiamiLeos

Picking it up on Saturday. It's much closer to my house and in a far better neighborhood that the other one so I'm really happy about that. Always wanna be cautious when going to someones home. I will prob have some questions for you guys when I'm setting it up. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how I'm going to get it from my car to inside my house by myself XP


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> Picking it up on Saturday. It's much closer to my house and in a far better neighborhood that the other one so I'm really happy about that. Always wanna be cautious when going to someones home. I will prob have some questions for you guys when I'm setting it up. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how I'm going to get it from my car to inside my house by myself XP


Rent a furniture dolley or a 2 wheeler. I can carry my 75g around without water in it, 57g can't be all that bad.


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## MiamiLeos

Yea I may have to get a dolly. I'm small so it will probably be very awkward for me to carry, the stand as well. And I live in a townhouse and of course mine is in the very back of the courtyard lol


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> Yea I may have to get a dolly. I'm small so it will probably be very awkward for me to carry, the stand as well. And I live in a townhouse and of course mine is in the very back of the courtyard lol


 Ouch. No worreis, you'll get it done no problem.


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## MiamiLeos

All I care about is not scratching or cracking anything! Though I'm sure my neighbors are going to be thinking "oh.. well that's odd" lmao


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> All I care about is not scratching or cracking anything! Though I'm sure my neighbors are going to be thinking "oh.. well that's odd" lmao


 :thumbsup:


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## MiamiLeos

Ahhh I'm getting impatient  Tropical Storm Isaac has put life on hold in south FL. Hopefully I will be getting this setup on Friday. Overall I'm happy with the deal, it's a complete set up with a new skimmer, live sand, two live rocks, and the guys gonna bring it to my house because I dont have a truck and I'm close to him. I'm so ready to start having fun with this!!!


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## Reefing Madness

Right on.


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## MiamiLeos

Set up is coming tomorrow! I just ordered 50lbs of dry Key Largo rock from Marco Rocks. Now I gotta get some new 5gal buckets to transport the ocean water from my LFS to my house. Going to have to make prob 3 trips to fill the tank and sump. Not complaining, I could use the exercise lmao. I'm hoping the tank will cycle in a speedy fashion since it has live sand and a bit of live rock. I can't wait to add some CUC!


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> Set up is coming tomorrow! I just ordered 50lbs of dry Key Largo rock from Marco Rocks. Now I gotta get some new 5gal buckets to transport the ocean water from my LFS to my house. Going to have to make prob 3 trips to fill the tank and sump. Not complaining, I could use the exercise lmao. I'm hoping the tank will cycle in a speedy fashion since it has live sand and a bit of live rock. I can't wait to add some CUC!


Hooray! Now the fun begins!

Remember, nothing good happens quick in a marine tank. I usually plan on my first fish addition to be as late as five weeks after sand, rock and water. As the tank matures, you will (1st) see the cycle end. Nitrites and Ammonia will read zero and Nitrates will have an insignificant reading < 5ppm. (2nd) Diatom bloom. This will make the tank look rusty (for lack of a better description). (3rd) Start testing Calcium and Alkalinity and make sure they are stable at: Cal 400-450 ppm and Alk at 8-12 dKH. (4th) Coraline algae (crusty purple spots) start to grow on the rock and tank walls. Depending on how stable your alk and calcium are might accelerate thisprocess, so it might start to show before the diatom bloom. (5th) Copepod and Astrea starfish populations increase and you feel like that is all you see.

Once you feel the tank is matured (you see the signs mentioned above) you can add a fish or two. Wait a week or two after you add them to add another. Test calcium and see if the addition of fish affected your dosing schedule (it will). If everything stays steady, add another fish and then wait again.

Marine fishkeeping could be a hobby of patience or panic. It's your choice at this point in the game...


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## MiamiLeos

Thanks for the cycle breakdown! I have patience for the process, I just want my tank here already lol. What do my levels have to be before I can add a few blue leg hermits and snails?


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## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> Thanks for the cycle breakdown! I have patience for the process, I just want my tank here already lol. What do my levels have to be before I can add a few blue leg hermits and snails?


I usually add the CUC after the diatom bloom dies off.


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## MiamiLeos

Awesome thanks


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## wseidl515

Patience and lots of research. Looking forward to seeing some pics once your up and running. Welcome to the hobby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MiamiLeos

Thanks! I will def be taking pics for you guys to give advice/opinions on. Tomorrow when it gets here I may start a build thread with some pics


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## MiamiLeos

I'm starting to panic. Idk if I should go through with this :/ It's a lot of money to drop at one time


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## MiamiLeos

He came down to $425, I guess I'll bite. I know it will look really nice.


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## wake49

It will. Can't wait to see pics!


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## Reefing Madness

Right on. Your in now. Once you have it all set up, you'll love what yiu've spent. No worries.
:-D


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## MiamiLeos

Thanks for the confidence guys, it's on it's way here now!!


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## MiamiLeos

It's here!!! I'm happy with it so far. The other live rock is in a bin submerged because it's got a baby red mushroom on it! I hope it makes it until tomorrow when I fill the tank. Theres a ton of tiny hermit crabs and some turbo snails too! Going to aquascape now with my 50lbs of Marco Key Largo rock - on a side note.. Marco Rock is flippin awesome!! Delivered to my house in literally 24 hours! And awesome rock too!! I'm going to start a build thread so it will be easier to see how it progresses


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## Reefing Madness

Keep that bin airated and at temperature, and you should not have any problems with the critters. Lil water movement probably wouldn't hurt.


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