# Siamese Fighting Fish Belly



## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

I am getting extremely worried about my Siamese Fighting Fish, over the last few weeks he has developed a strange abnormal growth as you can see from the picture. It is like it has a huge belly. It is not just at once side but like a big balloon in his belly.

He still eats well, behaviour has not changed, and swims with no problems.

Could anyone help me, I have put some salt in and tried some gen tonic but its getting bigger! i don't want to lose him.

Thanks, Glyn


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Hi and welcome to Fishforum.com, Glyn.:wave:

What are your water parameters? Size of tank and tank maintenance schedule? What about appearance of his poo? I noticed lately a lot of bettas are in the same situation as yours.:?


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

He is in my community tank with only a few neon’s 70L tank.

I never see him pooing that much, I have tried him with a few peas to see if he was blocked he had them all and I did see a bit of poo for a few days after. colour is brown

Ph is fine, temp 28-30

The tank levels are ok, but, I do have this strange clear slime on the top of the water I have tried everything to get rid of it, could that be related?

PS he only really eats one food, special small balls I purchase formulated just for fight fish, he will not touch the normal flake food, how strange is that.


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

maintenance schedule?

once a week, every week, 25% water change. replace water with treated tap water


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

sparky300 said:


> The tank levels are ok, but, I do have this strange clear slime on the top of the water I have tried everything to get rid of it, could that be related?


Hmmm...I'm clueless at the moment about it.:?


> PS he only really eats one food, special small balls I purchase formulated just for fight fish, he will not touch the normal flake food, how strange is that.


Bettas happen to be very picky eaters. My guess in your situation is the internal organs on the right side could be swollen.:? I'll have to ask Bettababy, another fellow member about this.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Hi there, I'll help if I can... 

The first quesitons I have to ask: Are the scales on the fish raised (sticking out/lifting up)? Is the swelling on just one side or all the way around the belly area of the fish?

This could be a number of things, but I'd like to warn against experimenting with meds if you really want to save your fish. Bettas are very sensitive to most medications. Also, remember, you can't medicate properly if you don't know what the problem is first. "Guessing" and just trying various meds is a good way to kill a fish.

This could be the beginning stages of dropsy, for which there is no cure, it could be an internal parasite, internal bacterial infection... and for each thing there is a specific treatment that is safe. A betta with dropsy can still be treated and can still live for well over a year. 

OK, next questions... You mention that your water quality is fine, but didn't post test results. That, honestly, tells us nothing. When we ask for test results it's not just to know if they are within "safe" ranges, but also in how they balance out together. Knowing exact numbers is always important when asking for help, so can I ask you to please post exact results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH? 

As for the slime on top of the water, that, also could be a few things... the first thing that comes to mind is an overdose in water conditioner? When you do water changes, are you adding enough conditioner for the whole tank each time or just the water you are changing? Which conditioner are you using? Also, how often are you feeding and what foods besides the betta pellets? Are there live plants in the tank? Is the water cloudy? Are there bubbles or "foam" at the surface? What kind of filter are you using?

I apologize for the many questions, but I'd like to help, and without those answers, there's not much anyone can do. The more you can tell us about your tank and situation the faster we can help. Asking these questions all at once saves precious time... so I am sorry if this seems overwhelming.

And lastly, the food issue... most bettas will eat limited types of food. I can count on 1 hand the number of bettas I have seen eat the flake food over a 10 yr period of time. If you're looking for an alternative that the neons can eat too, try things like live or frozen adult brine shrimp and freeze dried plankton. The pellets contain everything a betta requires to meet nutritional needs, but a variety in foods (different food each day, not all different foods in one feeding) is always the healthiest way to go. The neons should eat all of the foods I suggested, which could save you time, money, and worry about who's eating and who's not.

I hope this helps, I will watch for your reply with answers and do what I can to help your fish.


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## JouteiMike (Oct 7, 2006)

In addition to the other posts, I noticed that you mentioned adding salt...which type of salt did you add? Epsom salt would be the correct kind to add in this situation. This salt tends to draw fluid/gas OUT of the fish, instead of regular salt that could make the fish absorb more fluid, thus making it bigger. I suggest you perform water changes to rid the tank of regular salt, so you can add Epsom salt.

Just a little Epsom salt will suffice....1/8 teaspoon per five gallons of water.


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

Thank for all the responses on this, to answer bettababy questions first…

No scales are raised, he has been like this for a few weeks getting bigger every few days.

> "Guessing" and just trying various meds is a good way to kill a fish

I understand, I only want to do what is right I have had him 1 1/2 years and become very attached to him.

Tank levels: (tested today, before my weekly water change)

Ammonia 0 
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5.0
pH = 7.2

the clear slime I can suck up on the water change but it comes back after a few days… the slime is only on the top of the water

Water treatment: Aqua Plus, I add one full perpet per 9 liters which is about what I replace (one bucket full 9l mark) each time

food: Betta Bio-Gold (Hikari) this is all he will eat (part form the pea he seem to like) blood worms, flake food he will not eat.

water is clear, apart from the clear slime on the top, is not cloudy at all.


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

i only added salt once which i got from the pet shop (aquarium tonic salt - crystal clear)

also been adding Liquisil General Tonic (interpet) once a week for 2 weeks.


some more images....


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

forgot to answer these questions sorry.

> Are there bubbles or "foam" at the surface?
foam at the side of the glass top, not much, and bubbles in the clear slime which covers the whole top area. i have done a water change today and sucked most of it up but its already coming back.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

With the description you've given, this sounds like a tape worm... and the best med to use for that would be PraziPro.
*Before* using this medication I first would have to ask what kind of filter you are running on this tank? Is there carbon in it? Is the filter you are using rated for the tank size you have?

During medication you will need to remove any carbon that is in the filter. Take a look at your tank, is the output of water flush with the surface of the water or is there space where the water "falls" into the tank, breaking the surface of the water? 

I also suspect the bubbles are from the water conditioner, and the easy was to tell and to fix it would be to do a few water changes without the conditioner, and make sure there's a lot of carbon in the filter when you do this. (This means you can only treat one issue at a time, and I would do the medicating first considering the condition of the betta)

The other thing I would highly suggest would be to test the pH in your water supply (tap water with no conditioner) and then test the water in the tank for pH again. If they don't match exactly, post the results here and we can help you. Too much water conditioner in the water can cause pH to drop over time. If this has begun happening, then water changes need to be done much more often and much less water at a time to avoid shocking the fish... 

If you have more questions, please post *before* making changes or medicating. Depending on what type and size of filter you are using, you may need to run a few air stones in the tank during medicating. I won't know if this is needed until I know what kind of filter is on the tank. I can also help you find the med online if you need, just let me know.

One last *important* note: PraziPro doesn't mix with all medications, so to avoid turning your tank conditions toxic quickly, please make sure you do at least 1 - 2 water changes and run carbon in your filter for at least 48 hrs before attempting to use the PraziPro. 

Hope this helps...


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

i really am appreciative of all your help,thanks

About the filter….

The filter in this tank is built in, you can see how it works here: http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/filter_full.htm . The water doesn’t brake the surface its just under it, not that powerful in comparison to my other tank (which has a different filter)

I took the carbon out a while back for the meds (come to think about it around the same time the slime appeared)

which that filter type is a air stone required?


tape worm….

from the pictures does it look like that? it looks bad, what are the chances if it is tape worm. I will do another change today and get the med. I have in the tank some neon's and one little molly (only in the tank because he is too small for the big tank yet) 

The fighter fish's behaviour has still not changed he acting like nothing is wrong (if that makes sense). I feed him this morning, I did notice a lot of poo hanging from him this morning more than normal, very long.


ps what is the risk to the other fish?

Water ph…

Tap water PH = 6.6 
Tank PH = 7.0 - 7.2

could it be any of thess? Protozoan Parasites?
http://www.cellsalive.com/parasit.htm


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

sparky300 said:


> i really am appreciative of all your help,thanks
> 
> About the filter….
> 
> ...



This still sounds to me like it's a tape worm. Do you have a quarantine tank you can use to medicate the betta? The chances of this being contageous to the other fish is small, but I would watch them just in case. The safest approach here would be to move the betta to a smaller tank by himself, medicate him there and wait until he's well before considering putting him back into the main tank. 
I say this for 2 reasons... 1 because then there is no worry of the other fish being affected by the meds and 2 (and most important) that's quite a large tank for a betta, especially a sick one. If a betta gets old or sick and is unable to reach the surface, they will drown. The best long term environment (and safest) is a shallow tank. 
If you choose to medicate the entire tank, then yes, I would certainly suggest the use of an air stone during medicating, but be sure it doesn't stress the betta too much and make him sicker. (another advantage to using a quarantine tank is that you have more control over the air flow/water flow)

I can say it's not going to be any of the parasites listed on the page you posted the link to. A tape worm looks nothing like those. Your pH looks fine, and the 2 are close enough for you to do as frequent of water changes as you can (until the fish is well) just small amounts (not more than 25% - 30% each time). As for the risk to the other fish... I would say the most at risk would be the molly if it's a fry, again, a good reason to use a quarantine tank.

One thing that is nice for the bettas and quarantine situations is that you can use a bucket if need be, so long as you drop in an air stone with a control valve (because of the meds) and a heater. This saves some of the expense of quarantine set up and after using it, you can store it empty somewhere or use it for something else. (you may even have one handy for water changes, just make sure that no soap or chemicals have ever been in the bucket).

I hope this helps, if you need anything else, let me know.


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## sparky300 (Nov 23, 2007)

Thank you again, I have taken all of your advice and will let you know the outcome, fingers crossed. 

started the med yesterday in a quarantine tank. found it very had to get the med local. I called 5 aquariums, but managed to find one on my last call.
will keep you posted. 

Glyn.


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