# guppy abortion?



## t.ropical m.ist (Dec 31, 2006)

in my tank, i have three guppies - two female and one male, along with twelve other fish (it's a ten gallon) and when i got the females, both were pregnant - they had the dark spot behind their fin. now, both dark spots aren't as dark and when the one poops, it's a pink color. they've been in the tank over 24 hours, almost 30 hours and i just noticed that their dark spots have lightened up. is this an abortion? neither one was near ready to give birth.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Hi, and welcome to the board.
In answer to your question, I don't think I would use the term "abortion" for it, because they may still be carrying more, and you may notice in a few weeks that they are pregnant again, or still.
A lot of times when we move live bearing fishes, exposing them to air during bagging procedures can induce premature birth of the fry. IF this happened with your fish, the other fish would surely have eaten them quickly.
You said 13 fish in this 10 gallon tank? Are you planning a larger tank soon? (I hope!!!) What kind of fish are there? How many of each? How long has the tank been up and running? 
There are a lot of possibilities, including water quality issues that may have caused harm... without any information about your tank, it's near impossible to really guess at the actual cause.
If you'd like to post details about your tank (including water params for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH), we'll do our best to help you.
Happy New Year!


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## t.ropical m.ist (Dec 31, 2006)

i know i'm going to get chewed out on this, but it's been running since christmas eve. everything was checked then, and all was okay (i dont remember exact readings) but i'm checking tomorrow...or i guess it's later today.

about the size of the tank, none of them are larger than the guppies, i'm not allowed another tank at the moment. in it i have the three guppies, four sparkling gouramis, three neon tetras, three glowlight tetras and two corycats.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I don't want to be rude about it, but you know that at least some of those fish are likely going to die, especially the neons...???
Before you put the fish into the tank, the water parms would be fine, there is no waste level. You have more than maxed out your tank without cycling it, and then chosen mostly fish that are very sensitive to water quality to do it with. Is it possible for you to return most of those fish to the store before its too late? I am hoping you have test kits of your own? You're going to need them... ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH.
If you post your next results, and the kind of test kits used, we can help you to sort it out and save as many as possible... 
Please don't approach fish keeping in such a way again, this is cruel to the fish.
(could you also please enlarge your font size in your posts? It's hard to read when its so small)
<Your font size in previous posts has been edited by Moderator.>


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## t.ropical m.ist (Dec 31, 2006)

i do have my own testing kit, i'll be testing later today. i was told by someone who has had fish for years and breeds many different kinds that this was no problem. my neons color is actually really, really bright compared to the way they were in the store, too...

*edit:* i tested it just now. Ph was fine, no different than it was before (7.6). for the other things, I have a TetraTest kit - it says for NH3 and NH4 on the box. the reading on it today came out as 0.[/b]


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

Ph is not as important as ammonia and nitrite in the first month or two. Tell us your exact reading of ammonia and nitrite. Yes, bettababy is right, many of your fish will die. Please try and return them to your lfs, even if you dont get a refund because this is cruel to the fish. Do some more research before you buy any more


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

t.ropical m.ist said:


> i was told by someone who has had fish for years and breeds many different kinds that this was no problem. my neons color is actually really, really bright compared to the way they were in the store, too...


This person who coached you, did they also explain to you about the nitrogen cycle and overstocking a tank from the beginning, before the tank is cycled? Did they also teach about fish that are prone to illness/death from water quality changes such as will happen during the cycle?

I think what you were told was either misquoted to you or you misunderstood. Can you keep all of those fish in a 10 gallon tank together long term? No. There simply is no way to make that work, and not just because of water quality issues, but because of space and territory. If you are prepared for and intending to do 90% water changes daily, you could beat the water quality issue, (water would have to be properly prepared for this to work) but then the fish will all grow to their full size quick enough to cause issues with space and oxygen levels. Extra aeration levels can be artifically added with air stones and filtration, but you will still be left with territory and space problems. No matter how you look at it, 10 gallons just isn't big enough for the fish you have in there now. 

The reason we have told you to expect death if you don't return some of those fish asap, is because neons, corys, and the sparkling gouramis, and the guppys, are all sensitive to ammonia and nitrite. With more than the maximum amount of waste in a tank that has no bacteria culture to break it down yet, those levels are going to get extremely high, and the heavier the waste level, the longer it will take for enough bacteria to build up to consume ALL of the waste, meaning that when the culture begins breaking down ammonia, you will then get nitrite, but you will still have a high ammonia level to go with it. If ammonia or nitrite doesn't kill them by itself due to the high spikes, then the combination of the 2 together will surely do it. 
Now, lets take into account how large each of these fish will get to be, and rather quickly if they live...
neon tetras average about 1 - 1 1/2 inches each
fancy guppies average up to 2 1/2 inches each for females, and slighly smaller for males
sparkling gouramis average about 3 - 4 inches each
glowlight tetras average 1 1/2 - 2 inches each
cory cats average 3 inches each, and over 1 inch tall/around

Take some paper and measure these out and cut a "fish" in each size range for each of your fish in the tank. Lay these cut outs next to your tank, THEN tell us where you intend for these fish to go? 

How often are you feeding these fish and how much each time? What kind of food? What kind of filter are you running? Are there live plants in the tank? How much decoration is in there?

Can you post a picture of the tank for us?

The best thing you could do right now would be to return all but the glowlight tetras. Let the tank cycle properly and easily, those fish could handle that much. Then, if a few weeks, after cycling is safely complete, add a few more small fish like the neons OR the guppys. Wait another 2 wks to let the tank adapt to the new waste levels, and for the fish to settle in, then add 1 cory cat, and call it a full tank. In the mean time, watch your water quality with water testing, and add as much decoration to the tank as you can to provide "safe places" for the fish to get away from each other, and territories they can all claim. The cory cat will need some kind of cave... the neons and glowlights, and guppys will need things like rock structures and plants mid to upper range in the tank.

In the mean time, keep your feedings light... only what they can FINISH in 1 minute, once, every OTHER day, and daily water changes of 20%, and call your LFS and see if they will allow you to return everything but the glowlights.


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## t.ropical m.ist (Dec 31, 2006)

yes they did and they said it'd be fine, they have...five tanks? he has quite a few tanks that anytime i'm talking to him he's cleaning one of them.

pictures you requested

















sorry they aren't great quality, i was doing this...three AM?
yes to the live plants and there's quite a few, but they're still small. when they grow, it'll look fuller in there. i do have one large fake plant in there for the fry to hide in when/if they're born.


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## joeshmoe (Aug 2, 2006)

your tank lights on at 3 am :shock:


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## t.ropical m.ist (Dec 31, 2006)

it's on when i'm up. before i go to sleep i turn it off.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

t.ropical m.ist said:


> it's on when i'm up. before i go to sleep i turn it off.


How many hours is your light on? Your tank will need more plants as gravid guppies tend to become stressed as they have little place to hide. On top of that, if your light is on for more than ten hours, your fish are getting more stressed as they cannot rest because of too much activity. Fish don't seem to go inactive until the lights are off.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

After seeing the pictures, I would suggest a lot more plants. That tank is pretty bare still, and fish aren't going to wait for the plants to grow and fill in that much space before they're going to need the territory. Live plants will also help with waste levels if there are enough plants... and with the looks of your tank currently... not enough plants yet to accomplish something like that. I would suggest about triple what is seen in the pictures, and that just to get you started until they grow.

There are other things to add to the tank that will help it from being so bare if you don't wish to add more plants. Build some rock structures. Lace rock is fun to work with because it has a lot of natural caves, and when stacked nicely, it creates a lot of territory and looks good, too. That tank needs decorations of some kind. There are so many kinds of rocks, the trick is to stack them to form caves and hiding places for the fish.

Keep us posted and speak up if you need more help... there's always someone here who can help you.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

oh and stop listening to the so called "professianal" who said having all those fish is fine. There are a lot more experts here and im sure you can get a better quote here.


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## t.ropical m.ist (Dec 31, 2006)

honestly, i can't afford anymore plants. i went from all $120 that i had down to the $50 i'm using on something more important. my parents aren't helping out. at all. so i'm sorry if my tanks not up to par, it's what i can afford. and i'd rather go with what my friend says when all of his fish have survived. i dont know anybody on here, i'd rather go with what someone i know says.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

lol well your going to have problems. Did you do what dawn said, cut out the full grown fish and see if they will all fit in your tank?

If you do want an over crowded tank, you will need double or even tripple the filtration, and 70-90% water changes every day. Also when there fully grown (if they make it that long) they will attack each other for space, and even end up killing each other for space. I dont thiknk this friend is going to be good for you.

Whats this 50 dollars your spending on something more "important" Unless it can save your fishes or your life then its probably not important.


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## t.ropical m.ist (Dec 31, 2006)

im saving it for something for my horse. to me, that's a bit more important than fish.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2007)

t.ropical m.ist said:


> honestly, i can't afford anymore plants. i went from all $120 that i had down to the $50 i'm using on something more important. my parents aren't helping out. at all. so i'm sorry if my tanks not up to par, it's what i can afford. and i'd rather go with what my friend says when all of his fish have survived. i dont know anybody on here, i'd rather go with what someone i know says.


I understand your dilema, the people here are just trying to give you advice, and be helpful. I am sure no one is saying your tank is "not up to par", your tank, is your tank and what you do with it is up to you. You asked a question and received replies. Unforunately you are not always going to get answers that you agree with, thats part of asking for advice.

My only advice to you is when you have some extra cash try getting a 1 or 2 taller plants for the back. I have always gone with fake plants (my personal preference) they are inexpensive and some look just as real as live plants. Add a small decoration of some sort for the fish to go in and out of such as a small cave or something. They sell fairly cheap at walmart or petsmart stores. 
I have a small 10 gallon tank for my daughter and of course I didnt want to spend alot of money on it so I bought things slowly and cheap but ya know what, it is a very cute tank now and her fish are doing wonderful.

I wish you all the best in what ever your decission is.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

Please just consider returning a few of those fish, for the sake of them


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