# New 30 gallon cycling journal



## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

I thought I could post this here, since this is the first time I've cycled and would like advice. I've been putting fish food in my tank everyday cause I think it helps it a long a bit? I've also taken the dirty filter cartridge from my 10 gallon and put in the new filter device in my cycling 30. Also, if anyone has any advice for keeping my ph lower... preferably around 7.0 so my otos and tetras are happiest, that would be great. I cannot afford to buy 5 gallons of distilled water every week. And I already ordered Proper Ph 7.0 and am waiting for it to come. What else softens water?

Second day tank setup 11-2

Nitrate 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm - .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.0 :-(

5th day tank setup 11-5

Nitrate 0 - 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.2 :evil:


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

It's not that adding fish food helps it along a bit, it's that you need an ammonia source in the tank for it to cycle at all. Rotting fish food provides a source of ammonia that allows the beneficial bacteria in your tank to grow. 

Softening the water and lowering pH are two different things. Hardness and softness relate to the amount of dissolved materials in your water (calcium and carbonate being the most important ions). pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of your water. Often, the two go hand-in-hand as water that is very hard is also often very basic. However, it's definitely possibly to have very basic water that is also very soft. You can purchase GH and KH test kits to test your water's hardness, or you can have it tested for you at a fish store. Harder water has much more buffering capacity than soft water, and thus if your water is very hard it might be difficult to lower your pH to the range you want. Good ways to gently lower pH include adding bogwood or driftwood to your tank as well as using peat in your substrate or filter. The ability to lower pH of these materials will be greatly reduced by hard water. I suspect that Proper pH 7.0 would also prove less useful if you have very hard water, so it would be worth it to find out just how hard your water is before attempting to lower the pH.

Also keep in mind that pH swings can be deadly. Using a lot of chemicals to mess around with your pH can destroy your water's buffering capacity, which can result in a pH crash that's fatal. Also, even if you do lower the pH of the water in your tank to the desired level, it's important to remember that the water coming out of your tap will still be very basic and thus every time you do a water change a pH swing will occur. You will have to come up with some way of preventing this, such as pre-filtering the water you'll use for the water change with peat or using distilled or RO/DI water in addition to tapwater during water changes.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Oi, so I might as well just return the proper ph? And what's peat exactly?


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH/KH Test Kit Is this what I need?


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

SolaceTiger said:


> Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH/KH Test Kit Is this what I need?


Yup.

You can find peat at any gardening store and maybe a place like home depot. I don't really know how to describe it. It's kind of a clumpy dirt, but not dirt :roll:. Anyway, if the bag says "peat moss" that's what your looking for. Just make sure it has no additives.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Okay, so how exactly would I use it??


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Some people mix it in with their substrate, but that can get rather messy. A better option would be to buy a filter media bag (they go for about $1 at Petsmart, nothing fancy really) and stuff it full of peat and plop it in your filter. I'm not exactly sure about the life cycle of peat, so others will have to advise you as to how often it should be replaced.

The main effects it will have on your aquarium are caused by the release of acids into your aquarium water. These tannic and humic acids will gently lower your pH (again, provided you don't have extremely hard water that would buffer the pH change) but will also color (or discolor, depending how you see it) your water. It will become a golden color similar to a weak tea, but will still be clear. Some people like the way it looks but others don't. I, personally, am a fan of it. Using activated carbon in your filter will remove this coloring effect, but might also reduce the ability of the peat to lower your pH. The tetras you plan on keeping in the tank will appreciate the "blackwater" effect the peat will provide as it will mimic their natural environments.

You can see the blackwater effect in my Jack Dempsey tank:
http://www.fishforum.com/freshwater-fish-pictures-videos/couple-random-pictures-17916/


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Sounds good, but complicated. Can I have the filter media bag and normal filter cart in there at the same time?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, just put the media bag in the big empty area of the filter between the intake tube/impeller and the filter cartridge.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm not quite sure I know where that is. In my penguin 150, there are two slots for carts, Can I maybe put my carbon cartridge in the first slot closest to the back, and put the media bag in front of it so the tannin stain isn't caught by the filter?? *ponders*


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I mean the area of the filter furthest from the tank at the back of the filter that's full of water when the filter is running. There should be enough room between there and the cartridges.

Here's a rough drawing:








The red is the filter intake tube, the blue is the filter cartridge, and the pink/purple is the biowheel. The brown ellipse is where you could stick the media bag full of peat. 

Even if you position the bag of peat between the filter cartridge(s) and the biowheel, the tannins will still be removed from the water just as fast as they are added as long as any of your filter cartridges have carbon in them. Again, I'm not sure exactly how much the removal of the discoloration will negatively impact the peat's ability to lower pH, but I imagine you'd just be better off with no carbon.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

With no carbon then, how would I filter the water? I think I am learning alot more than I ever cared to. lol


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Second day tank setup 11-2

Nitrate 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm - .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.0 :sad:

5th day tank setup 11-5

Nitrate 0 - 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.2 :evil:

*Update
11-8

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia 1.0 ppm
High Range PH 8.2*

Does it seem normal the way things have progressed in a week. It's possible I may have read the readings wrong, and sometimes the water leaks/spills outta the tubes when you shake em. Think the caps get to loose or something after using em over nad over again. I use the API freshwater test kit. Any help? Thanks.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like the cycle is progressing. If you're using the regular blue filter cartridges, you can slice open the blue material along the top edge of the cartridge and dump out the carbon and just continue to use the cartridge. Actually, you could even use this as a makeshift container and put some peat right in there. 

The use of carbon in your filter is controversial, but even those who support it wouldn't say it's as necessary as adequate mechanical and biological filtration. If you're concerned about removing it, I would read up on the debate on activated carbon use in freshwater tanks before you make a decision.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Sounds like an idea. Yea, I just use the blue ones, although someone on here suggested I get the drs foster smith brand of them and I have. Its' the Drs foster smith bio3 disposable filter carts. i've got 24 of them. although because the carbon is seperated into 3 pockets so it deosn't teabag, it might be harder to replace it with peat.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Also, should I be doing water changes during hte cycle?


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

With a fishless cycle no, no real reason to. I might consider it if you got ammonia readings over 5 ppm as too much ammonia can be detrimental to the bacteria but that's unlikely unless you are putting a LOT of food in.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

You'll have to do a big water change at the end of the cycle though (before you add fish) as your nitrates will probably be through the roof.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Second day tank setup 11-2

Nitrate 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm - .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.0 :sad:

5th day tank setup 11-5

Nitrate 0 - 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.2 :evil:
11-8

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia 1.0 ppm
High Range PH 8.2

*11-14

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia 1.0
High Range PH 8.2

Okay, so things don't seem to have progressed at all... unless I missed something in between tonight and my last test 6 days ago. Is that okay? It will be 2 weeks tomorrow since I've started, and I'm amazed at my patience. Hehe, I'm thankful for how much I've learned here, that's for sure. Currently to aid the cycle, I've been putting in a small pinch of food morning and night. A little bit more than I feed my fish each time in my 10 gallon. Should I put more food in there at a time? It's looking pretty yucky already, but the water is a nice weak tea color from the drift wood.  Also, still waiting for GH/KH test kit to arrive. Thanks for reading!
*


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

If you're not sure put in more food. You don't have any fish in there now to worry about hurting so all you really have to do is make sure that the ammonia doesn't go above 5ppm. If things do get to high you can always do a water change/vacuum some of the gunk up. You're going to want to do a water change and extensive vacuuming anyways before the fish go in.

That being said you have to remember that as far as the test goes things are highly subjective. While it still looks the same color as the 0.25ppm mark or whatever there could be minor variations going on. Also if you have detectable nitrites and nitrates be happy, your cycle is progressing and it'll get there.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Second day tank setup 11-2

Nitrate 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm - .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.0 :sad:

5th day tank setup 11-5

Nitrate 0 - 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.2 :evil:

11-8

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia 1.0 ppm
High Range PH 8.2

11-14

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia 1.0
High Range PH 8.2

*11-17

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .50 ppm
Ammonia .50 ppm
High Range PH 8.2*

*Nitrite went up, Ammonia went down. That's normal right? Ammonia being converted into Nitrites?*

*Also, I must vent.... the test tubes are annoying cause when you shake them or invert them, water comes out through the lid... seems like the lids get loose after a couple uses. >< I don't know how much that would affect my test results..?*


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Yes, the dropping ammonia levels and increasing nitrites are a sign of the cycle progressing. Eventually the nitrite levels will start to drop and the nitrates will keep going up. Once the nitrites hit zero your tank is cycled.

I've had similar issues with the test tubes. I usually hold the tube between my fingers on bottom and top to put a bit more pressure on the top. I wouldn't worry about it affecting your results too much.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Lol, yea that's what I do to exactly, except the one where you have to shake for a 1 minute, I have a paper towel wrapped around the tube while I'm shaking to catch the drops, lol.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

SolaceTiger said:


> Lol, yea that's what I do to exactly, except the one where you have to shake for a 1 minute, I have a paper towel wrapped around the tube while I'm shaking to catch the drops, lol.


LOL. That's what I do too with my nitrate test because it leaks a little. Just be sure to wash your hands well after testing. Those chemicals are not too good for you.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Second day tank setup 11-2

Nitrate 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm - .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.0 :sad:

5th day tank setup 11-5

Nitrate 0 - 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia .25 ppm
High Range PH 8.2 :evil:

11-8

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia 1.0 ppm
High Range PH 8.2

11-14

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .25 ppm
Ammonia 1.0
High Range PH 8.2

11-17

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite .50 ppm
Ammonia .50 ppm
High Range PH 8.2

*11-22

Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm
High Range PH 8.2*

Looks like it's verrry close to being done, if I should be waiting for Nitrates to escalate a bit more. I so badly want to do a water change and put my 3 blood fins in. I haven't done a water change the whole cycling process. Is it okay to do a water change now, and how much of a change should I be doing? Please reply promptly. xD


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Looks like you're just about there! I would keep feeding your tank with your ammonia source and test for the next few days. If the ammonia and nitrites stay at 0 then your cycled. Then do a water change of maybe 25% but don't mess with the filter yet. Add the 3 bloodfins and watch your parameters closely for the next few days for any spikes.


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

With that pH, you could have a reef!


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Nah, too lazy. xD


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

It looks like you're cycled. Your ammonia levels were never sky high so you're unlikely to see a huge spike in nitrates and that's not a bad thing. 20 days is right in the normal area for a tank to cycle. Since you're using decaying fish food it's hard to really "test" the cycle unless you want to keep adding food as normal and just see if everything stays as it is, except for the nitrates slowly rising.

Since your nitrates are fairly low I wouldn't worry too much about a big water change. Just use your gravel vac to give your tank a good cleaning and get up all the old decaying fish food and replace how much water that pulls out. If you want an exact number I'd suggest what I do, a 30% change which in your case is about 10 gallons.

Put in your fish and keep an eye on things the same way you'd keep an eye on them as if you were doing a fish in cycle. For a couple of days test the water daily for ammonia. If you see any then do a water change to get the levels back down and continue to monitor things.

In my experience a mature "cycled" filter can handle a pretty large increase in the bioload without ever seeing a mini-cycle. Last week I added 7 serpae tetras to my tank which easily doubled the bioload or better. I tested the water about every six hours for two days and never saw any increase in ammonia or nitrites. I've done the same thing each time I've added fish, though maybe not that religiously and I've yet to see a mini-cycle. Take that as you will.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Well, my nitrates went up more since 3 days ago. Nitrites and Ammonia are zero. Did a 30 percent water change and tested again, all was well. My fish from the 10 gallon are now exploring their new home.  I hope they all do well, and eventually I will be adding 3 more bloodfins, 4 more red eye, and 4 more black skirts. Possibly some more otos to at some point, but I'm leaning more against that, just because I don't want them starving. I do like the idea of a bristlenose pleco... or a smaller pleco of the like. Can they do okay in 8.2 ph water if properly acclimated?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

That should be fine, although I would be a little more worried if you were to add one of the more expensive L-number plecos. I believe many of those are wild-caught and might not acclimate to the high pH as well (plus they're expensive). 

Remind me: what're your plans for the 10g? If it's fish-free, don't let it sit around for very long without fish in it or it'll un-cycle itself.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Right now, it's completely full still, plants are floating on the surface, cause I had to take em all out to catch the fish lol. I was starting to get mad at my fish for not swimming into the net! LOL. For the 10 gallon, I want to make it a quarantine tank, but not quite sure how to do that. Do I just leave it setup all the time, and throw fish food in every day like I had to do with my 30? I just don't like the idea of "wasting" the food. Not wasting, but youknow what I mean. 

Otherwise, I was thinking of getting just a couple fish for the 10...maybe some swordtails or something. Or a betta... on bettasplendens she has some beautiful ones I've jaw dropped over.

At the same time, I think it would be best to take the 10 gallon down for now, cause it's deteriorated in the corners, coming unsealed and stuff.... and that's not good!

What to do, what to do...


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Do you have room in your 30 gallon to run your 10 gallon filter also? This way you can break down the tank to clean/repair it and when you need it the filter will still be cycled. If you don't have room for the whole filter keep an extra sponge in your 30 gallon filter to use in the 10 gallon when you need it. I can't recall what type of filters you have on these tanks.


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## SolaceTiger (Oct 4, 2008)

Thanks jeanine, good idea! =D I just use the penguin biowheel filters. And both the 30 and 10 gallon one hold the same cartridge size so taht would be a good idea. I could put the whole filter on to I spose.

I know I probably s houldn't have done this yet, but I will monitoring my tank like a hawk. I added 4 more red eye tetras, so now I have 6 of them.  I know, I know... I should have quarantined first... but I wanted to see them school. lol. You'll all definitely hear about it if my whole tank breaks out with some nasty disease though, and it will all be my fault. lol. But I have a very good LFS in town here, so I hope that won't happen. I've never had any problems with the fish I've gotten there..... but yea, yea still should have quarantined! I also got one more piece of driftwood, but tank still looks bland... don't know what it is exactly... need more color I think. And the red gravel in back and white in front, I don't think I like to well... plus I don't want my fishes colors to get washed out. But I'm not even gonna attempt changing that out right now. That woudl be insanity. x.x


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