# fish behavior question



## groverjr (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi everyone, I hope you can help! My girlfriend has had a fishbowl for a couple months now and she had one problem, and now another. She started with a 3 gallon bowl and two fish, a goldfish and a beta. After a little while the beta started chasing the goldfish, but it never really hurt it. We figured they were just establishing dominance or something. Anyway, later on some friends bought her two more fish... a danio and a blackskirt tetra. I told her that the bowl was too small for so many fish but the woman at the pet store said it should be fine. The first real problem was the goldfish's belly became bloated (this was before the extra fish were added), then later it had problems swimming, stayed near the bottom a lot, swam on its side, etc. A few days after all these problems we separated it from the others but a day later it died. The second problem is current. A little while ago the tetra started chasing the danio around like the beta used to do with the goldfish. Today my girlfriend noticed the danio's fins are showing signs of damage. She doesn't want to have to separate the fish but otherwise we are afraid the danio will die from stress or injury. Also, I have found that both danios and tetra should be bought in groups, but the fishbowl is too small for a lot of fish. She doesn't have room for an aquarium in room. Any thoughts? -James


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## fishkid (Jul 29, 2008)

Thats because it is a bowl. None of your fish should be kept in a bowl. They would be much happier in a proper tank and in groups. Also, the people at pet stores aren't always reliable. I wouldn't go to them for advice.


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## groverjr (Feb 8, 2009)

While I agree the shop assistant probably doesn't know a lot about fish (since it is a general pet store), I don't see any reason why fish would be happier in a tank than a bowl, afterall you are really just changing the shape of the container. The bowl is properly cleaned, has a good ph and temperature, etc. As I mentioned I do think it would be better to have more space for the extra fish... but a larger tank really isn't an option.

Anyway, I am mostly concerned with the safety of the danio and what else we can do other than separating them. And if we do have to separate the tetra, how would it do on it's own???


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## fishkid (Jul 29, 2008)

With a tank, you would be able to put in a filter, heater, prretty much all the stuff fish need that you couldn't put in a bowl. The tank wouldn't have to be big, a 15 or 20 gallon would be okay. The danios are hyper fish, and adding 2 or 3 more would diffuse the aggresion. The tetrar would also do better in groups.


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## groverjr (Feb 8, 2009)

15-20 gallons seems pretty big actually when you consider how small a space she has. I think the problem is having a single danio and a single tetra. I have read the beta is ok by itself, but I am afraid there isn't room to add more fish...


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

The betta is fine in a 3gal bowl, if kept alone. The danios and tetra both need to be in a heated tank, and will not do well kept singly, they need to be in a school. Also bettas can be aggressive towards other fish. If the danio and tetra are not rehomed it is very likely the betta will kill them.


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## groverjr (Feb 8, 2009)

The beta was aggressive towards the goldfish, but so far has left the danio and tetra alone. I'll tell my girlfriend to keep an eye on it just in case it starts attacking them as well. I think one reason it might have stopped attacking the goldfish when the other fish arrived is it was confused and distracted enough to be more passive. Also, the problem is the tetra is attacking the danio. She can't put all three fish in separate homes. Would it be better to maybe get a couple more danios? That might encourage the tetra to leave them alone. And thanks for all the quick replies!!! I will talk to my girlfriend later so it is good to know.


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I would not add anymore fish to a 3gal. That is only adequate room for 1 betta. The tetra is attacking the danio because it is not in a school. The danio and tetra should get along fine, if both are kept in schools of 5 of their own kind. You would need to have a 10 or 15 gal tank to do that. Any chance you could return them to the store? They would be better off, unless you are able to set up a tank for them.


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## groverjr (Feb 8, 2009)

Unfortunately no, she can't return them, I already suggested it. I figured the bowl wouldn't really be big enough for a lot of fish. I know this is going to make her really sad, she was upset with the goldfish died and I don't know what she'll do about the others. Would the danio and tetra both fair ok on their own at all? I can talk to her about getting separate containers for all three but I don't think she'll consider it a real possibility. I am also afraid this will turn her off from having more fish later (once we're married, we had planned to expand to a decent size tank).


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Small cotainer for them them would not be a good set up. They need heated water, and you will not be able to find a heater for a container. Maybe you can talk one of your friends into setting up a fish tank? Maybe the store would take them if you are not asking for your money back?


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## groverjr (Feb 8, 2009)

Everyone, here is a public apology to my fiancee. This is about her fish and she is not just my girlfriend. I just want everyone to know that.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Goldfish and bettas have different temperature requirements. Bettas are tropical fish and goldfish need cooler water. I think tetras and danios are schooling fish and need to be kept in groups to be happy.


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## Charlie (Aug 22, 2008)

Okay, this is how it works.
Have you ever heard of the one inch of fish per gallon rule?
This is a "general guideline" for fishkeeping (very "general", it sets a minimum bar for fish. It becomes more inaccurate as the fish get bigger-- for instance, you obviously can't keep a 10 inch fish in a 10 gallon tank, but 5 2-inch fish will work in a 10gallon..)
Betta = 2 inches. Goldfish = 10+inches at adulthood. Danio = 1-2 inch. Black skirt tetra = 3 inches.
Every fish needs adequate swimming room. For instance, a betta may be kept by itself in a 1 gallon bowl because they are very lazy fish, and are small.
However, BOTH danios and black skirt tetras are very hyperactive fish. As well as this, they need lots of friends to keep them comfortable.
Because of this, danios need a ten gallon tank to be happy, and should be in groups of a minimum of 4-5. They also need the swimming space of a ten gallon.
Black skirt tetras require even bigger tanks, since they are even bigger fish. 20-30 gallons minimum on a school of them, depending on how many you have. They are very boisterous fish, and if you plan on keeping them with other fish, you're looking at a bigger tank and more tetras, to spread out the aggression.

And, as a sidenote, goldfish are not fish for bowls, they do not grow "to the size of the tank". Their organs end up failing, and they die a painful death. They should be kept in at least a 55 gallon tank, and that's if you have a smaller species. They also require slightly different conditions than the rest of these fish, and should not be kept in the same aquarium.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but this setup will not work. Listen to the people giving you advice on this forum. You simply cannot keep fish in bowls under these conditions. It is a cruel practice. Get rid of the danio and the tetra, then just stick with the betta in the three gallon bowl. Make sure to change its water.

Never listen to people at the fish store. They are only looking to make money off you... sorry.

And when you say you cannot return the fish, do you mean you can not, or will not? Just give the fish back, if you cannot provide adequate housing for them.


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## groverjr (Feb 8, 2009)

Yes, I know of the one inch per gallon rule, which is why when we got the fish I told her just the beta and the goldfish (it might not be an actual goldfish since all this happened in a foreign country and they have different names). The beta is about two inches and the goldfish about 1 1/2, so I thought a 3 gallon bowl would serve ok. However, given your comment about their organs failing and them dying, it probably was a goldfish since that is basically what happened I think. It is good to know for the future. Anyway, a couple friends got her the extra fish, and when I found out it was too late and they were already there. I talked to her about maybe getting a small tank instead of a large bowl, but we couldn't (long story here, too). Also, the tetra is only about 1 1/2 inches (or so), does that mean it isn't fully grown? If you want to see the three fish please look at my tanks with my profile because I have a photo of the bowl there. I am pretty sure I have the species correct, but if I am wrong I would like to know. I'll talk to my fiancee tomorrow again about all this. For now she has separated the tetra from the others but getting more fish just isn't an option. Unfortunately, neither is taking them back to the store. It isn't about the money, the store just won't take them back. Period. The depressing thing is she would love a large tank but can't have one for numerous reasons. Like I said, she was really upset when the goldfish died a couple weeks ago, and I would hate for her to lose the others... Otherwise, she takes good care of the bowl and is careful about feeding. Once we're married and she moves here will do some research, talk to some experts, and probably have a larger tank then. As a side note, does anyone know the procedure for bringing fish into the U.S.? Thanks again for all the help and info, I just wish I had better news to give her.


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## groverjr (Feb 8, 2009)

My fiancee wants to know since she has separated the tetra into another bowl (I guess about 2 gallons...?), would it be better to buy one more danio for the original bowl (with the beta) and/or one more tetra for the second bowl? She wants those fish to have company, but I am worried about it being too crowded. Thoughts?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I would ,were it me,, (and it aint) explain to my girlfiend or future wife that Fish don't belong in bowls . A ten gal tank with filter and heater would allow you Way more options. A ten gal tank would set on top of TV , kitchen counter,closet shelf, hell ,on top of the fridge. Small tanks are very unforgiving when it comes to maintaining water quality which all fish need. the bowls will need two to three water changes a week depending on how much food is being offered. You will be doing no service to the fish by keeping them in bowls. That is my theory as to why nearly 80 percent of sick fish issues are in regards to Bettas. they simply don't do well in the long term in bowls unless diligent maint is performed.


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