# First Fish Aquarium



## Rockinhondamom (Apr 22, 2013)

I set up our first freshwater tank on Saturday evening. We used a quick start chemical instead of cycling the tank. Inside we have 3 silver stripped tetras, 1 neon green tetra, and 4 danios. I followed the instructions given to me by the lady in the fish department for setting up my tank immediately. Over the last 24 hours our tank has become very cloudy. Also, the fish don't seem to be schooling like they were the first day. They almost look like they are on alert. I have ordered a ph. testing kit that should be here in a few days, but I am worried they are sick or dying... I could use any advice as I have never done this sort of thing before!! Please help!!:BIGnervous:


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## fish keeper 2013 (Mar 8, 2013)

Cycling chemicals can help but won't make it immediately ready like they claim to. Also, what was the name of the product you used? Some are better than others...

Don't worry about the cloudy water, it is normal in new tanks and is called a bacteria bloom, it will go away soon.

It sounds like your fish are getting ammonia poisoning (or at least that is most likely). That ph test won't help you, get a full master test kit. At the very least get an ammonia test kit. If you can't get your hands on a master test kit immediately take a sample of your water to the store and have them test it, most stores will do it for free or for a small fee.

Also, I'm going need more info on your tank.

Is it filtered? How many gallons? Is it heated? Are there live plants? Have you used water dechlorinator/conditioner? Do you have the means to do large water changes (you will need to do this to keep your fish alive)?

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum!


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## Rockinhondamom (Apr 22, 2013)

fish keeper 2013 said:


> Cycling chemicals can help but won't make it immediately ready like they claim to. Also, what was the name of the product you used? Some are better than others...
> 
> Don't worry about the cloudy water, it is normal in new tanks and is called a bacteria bloom, it will go away soon.
> 
> ...


I live about 30 miles away from the nearest pet store and since I don't have a car, it's very hard to get there to test the water. I used API Quick start, TOP FIN Bacterial Supplement and APR Stress Coat when I started the tank on Saturday. I ordered API Freshwater/Saltwater Ammonia Test Kit and API Ammo-Chips Ammonia-Removing Resin.

Onto the questions: I have a 10 gallon tank with a filter and a heater. I do not have any live plants. I haven't used a conditioner. I'm not sure what you mean by a large water change.... If it means do I have another tank that I could put the fish into fresh water, that would be a no? Unless I could get a big bucket and do that! I don't want them to die!


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## fish keeper 2013 (Mar 8, 2013)

Rockinhondamom said:


> I live about 30 miles away from the nearest pet store and since I don't have a car, it's very hard to get there to test the water. I used API Quick start, TOP FIN Bacterial Supplement and APR Stress Coat when I started the tank on Saturday. I ordered API Freshwater/Saltwater Ammonia Test Kit and API Ammo-Chips Ammonia-Removing Resin.
> 
> Onto the questions: I have a 10 gallon tank with a filter and a heater. I do not have any live plants. I haven't used a conditioner. I'm not sure what you mean by a large water change.... If it means do I have another tank that I could put the fish into fresh water, that would be a no? Unless I could get a big bucket and do that! I don't want them to die!


Top fin bacterial supplement is not good, API Quick start on the other hand I actually think it works well. When you say APR I assume you mean API, if so that is the conditioner I was referring to. I thought you ordered a pH test? If it really is the ammonia test you are in luck, that is what you need. You probally still want to get the full test but we don't have to worry about it until down the road a bit.

All fish secrete ammonia, and ammonia is dangerous to fish. With that many fish in a freshly set up 10 gallon you are going to have an ammonia problem bacteria additive or not. A water change is when you take out water from your tank and put in new fresh water (always remember to dechlorinate and never take out all the water at once). You probally should do a water change now to remove all that ammonia that is building up. Once you get that ammonia test kit it will be easier to see when a water change is nessecary, you want to keep it at .25-.5 ppm or lower (preferably lower).


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## Rockinhondamom (Apr 22, 2013)

fish keeper 2013 said:


> Top fin bacterial supplement is not good, API Quick start on the other hand I actually think it works well. When you say APR I assume you mean API, if so that is the conditioner I was referring to. I thought you ordered a pH test? If it really is the ammonia test you are in luck, that is what you need. You probally still want to get the full test but we don't have to worry about it until down the road a bit.
> 
> All fish secrete ammonia, and ammonia is dangerous to fish. With that many fish in a freshly set up 10 gallon you are going to have an ammonia problem bacteria additive or not. A water change is when you take out water from your tank and put in new fresh water (always remember to dechlorinate and never take out all the water at once). You probally should do a water change now to remove all that ammonia that is building up. Once you get that ammonia test kit it will be easier to see when a water change is nessecary, you want to keep it at .25-.5 ppm or lower (preferably lower).


Yes, I meant API. So the API Stress Coat is conditioner? I copied exactally what I bought from my receipt at PetCo. So I guess I did get an ammonia test... Should I take a certain amount of water out and refill with more chemicals? If so, which ones should I add and how much should I take out? Thanks so MUCH!!


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## TitanTDH (Sep 21, 2012)

Hey mate and welcome to the forum and the hobby. Ok it sounds like the lady you got the equipment and fish from gave you some crap advice. I've listed some issues and not criticisms as I made similar mistakes.
1. Seachem prime is an excellent dechlorinator. I would recommend you order a bottle. It will remove chlorine and bind ammonia and make it safer.
2. When we discuss water change we are talking about changing a percentage of the tanks water. This will help remove toxins in the water. But make sure to dechlorinate the water. Unless you are using tank or well water. Chlorine will burn the fish gills. Also read the articles in the forum on cycle , plants and other topics. Lots and lots of info.
3. I think your tank is overstocked. Not in regard to the number of fish but the excess bio load in the tank, hence ammonia and the algae bloom.
Can I recommend you order live plants. Stem variety or fast growing plants. surface floating is another good option and look into the API master kit as this covers the most common tests the forum will need. Those being ammonia, nitrite , nitrate and ph. Gh and kh can be sourced from local water board
Good luck mate
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fish keeper 2013 (Mar 8, 2013)

Rockinhondamom said:


> Yes, I meant API. So the API Stress Coat is conditioner? I copied exactally what I bought from my receipt at PetCo. So I guess I did get an ammonia test... Should I take a certain amount of water out and refill with more chemicals? If so, which ones should I add and how much should I take out? Thanks so MUCH!!


Say you have 10 gallons of water, if you want to do a 50% water change you prepare 5 gallons of water to refill the tank with. Dose the new water with the chemicals occording to what it says on the bottle. If it says 10 ml per 10 gallons put 5ml into the water. Note: in doses that are 1ml for 10 gallons it is approxiamately 2 drops per gallon of water (I know these small doses can be a pain). I'm not sure if you should add more of the bacteria when doing a water change, I know bacteria will go bad withing a day of opening and that you can't overdose it, so you might as well use all of it. (might want to do additional research to find out more, I am no 100% positive). 

You need to make sure you have no ammonia in your tap water (assuming you are using tap water), adding fresh water that has more ammonia than the old water would make it pointless right? I highly recommend getting a bottle of seachem prime (or a similar product) as soon as possible, especially if your tap water has ammonia. This product will make ammonia non toxic to fish, and can be a life saver while cycling.

For now I would do a 50% water change (5 gallons). Don't worry to much about ammonia in tap water because the ammonia levels in your tank have to be higher, so it is bound to bring it down. You can figure out water change frequency and ammount much better when you get that test kit.


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## Rockinhondamom (Apr 22, 2013)

fish keeper 2013 said:


> Say you have 10 gallons of water, if you want to do a 50% water change you prepare 5 gallons of water to refill the tank with. Dose the new water with the chemicals occording to what it says on the bottle. If it says 10 ml per 10 gallons put 5ml into the water. Note: in doses that are 1ml for 10 gallons it is approxiamately 2 drops per gallon of water (I know these small doses can be a pain). I'm not sure if you should add more of the bacteria when doing a water change, I know bacteria will go bad withing a day of opening and that you can't overdose it, so you might as well use all of it. (might want to do additional research to find out more, I am no 100% positive).
> 
> You need to make sure you have no ammonia in your tap water (assuming you are using tap water), adding fresh water that has more ammonia than the old water would make it pointless right? I highly recommend getting a bottle of seachem prime (or a similar product) as soon as possible, especially if your tap water has ammonia. This product will make ammonia non toxic to fish, and can be a life saver while cycling.
> 
> For now I would do a 50% water change (5 gallons). Don't worry to much about ammonia in tap water because the ammonia levels in your tank have to be higher, so it is bound to bring it down. You can figure out water change frequency and ammount much better when you get that test kit.


Okay let me see if I have this all correctly: I need seachem prime which removes chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia. Does that mean I still need a water conditioner?

I need to do a 50% water change. I need to add quick start to the new water along with stress coat. But I don't need to add anymore bacteria supplement. (Were you saying that once the bottle is opened it's only good for one day after that?) 

Once I get the testing kit I need to test the ammonia in my tap water and I need to invest into a master kit? Did I get it all? lol..


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## Rockinhondamom (Apr 22, 2013)

TitanTDH said:


> Hey mate and welcome to the forum and the hobby. Ok it sounds like the lady you got the equipment and fish from gave you some crap advice. I've listed some issues and not criticisms as I made similar mistakes.
> 1. Seachem prime is an excellent dechlorinator. I would recommend you order a bottle. It will remove chlorine and bind ammonia and make it safer.
> 2. When we discuss water change we are talking about changing a percentage of the tanks water. This will help remove toxins in the water. But make sure to dechlorinate the water. Unless you are using tank or well water. Chlorine will burn the fish gills. Also read the articles in the forum on cycle , plants and other topics. Lots and lots of info.
> 3. I think your tank is overstocked. Not in regard to the number of fish but the excess bio load in the tank, hence ammonia and the algae bloom.
> ...


 
thanks for your help!!


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

the instant cycle in a bottles are nothing but a money sink... never seen any tank cycle instantly from them. prime = water conditioner that's all you need. I would do daily 50% w/c's until you start to see the ammonia stay at or below 0.25 ppm. plants would also help you here too.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Okay let me see if I have this all correctly: I need seachem prime which removes chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia. Does that mean I still need a water conditioner?


Yes, Prime is a water conditioner. It detoxifies chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, plus heavy metals. Many of us recommend it for new setups, especially with no live plants, as it covers everything.



> I need to do a 50% water change. I need to add quick start to the new water along with stress coat. But I don't need to add anymore bacteria supplement. (Were you saying that once the bottle is opened it's only good for one day after that?)


You should be doing a 50% [meaning half the tank water volume] water change daily until the tank is cycled. You can read about cycling in a "sticky" post at the head of this section of the forum, but here is the direct linnk:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/
As others suggested, use the products you have as directed on them. They can't hurt compared to ammonia and nitrite.



> Once I get the testing kit I need to test the ammonia in my tap water and I need to invest into a master kit? Did I get it all?


This is a reliable kit, the API Master Combo which has pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. And yes, test your tap water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate just so you'll know if any of these are present; we can discuss what to do later if they are. Test the pH too, but put some tap water in a jar and shake it very vigorously for several minutes before testing [no need to do this to test aquarium water, just tap for pH]. This outgasses any CO2 which will cause a false pH reading.

Welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.:-D

Byron.


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## fish keeper 2013 (Mar 8, 2013)

Rockinhondamom said:


> But I don't need to add anymore bacteria supplement. (Were you saying that once the bottle is opened it's only good for one day after that?)


I would just add the rest of the bottle, just in case. I don't see how it could hurt.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Sometimes bacterial supplements will add ammonia to the tank.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

Or ammonium which isn't nearly as toxic
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

I'd just use the Quick Start as your conditioner for now. That and Stress Coat are both conditioners; however, the Quick Start helps with the ammonia. Live fast growing stem plants would be a big help. There are many places online to order plants. Aquariumplants.com and Liveaquaria.com are two examples. Look for stem or bunched plants when ordering and pick those that say fast growing.


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## ZivaD (Jan 26, 2013)

Sorry it seems you've gotten off to a rocky start in the hobby as far as the advice given to you by the store employee. Given the size of the tank and the fish you currently have, I would advise taking the fish back or re-homing them so that you can approach cycling the tank and then stocking it with better suited livestock once the cycle has completed. The fish you have at the moment aren't really suited for keeping in a 10 gallon even after the tank has cycled for the simple fact that you have shoaling fish that require larger groups of each type of fish and the 10 gallon is not sufficient enough to hold the numbers of each species you would be aiming for for optimal health and happiness of the fish you keep.

The changes you are seeing in your fish are from a comibination of the water conditions of an uncycled tank and the environment of being shoaling fish without sufficient numbers of their own kind to chum around with. Water changes are necessary for short-term fix for the first issue, and I would certanily encourage you to follow the previously given advice in regards to doing them - but the long-term issue is not giong to be resolved so that is why I suggest keeping up with daily water changes for the short-term until you are able to either make it back to the store to return the fish or find a home with an aquarium better suited to them.

This is a wonderful hobby and I would hate for this first experience to put you off of it - it's just that sometimes we must take a step or two backwards in order to move forward. Hitting the "reset" button by removing the fish from the equation for now will allow you to learn and complete the cycling process and give you time to research fish species and find a stocking plan better suited for your tank so that when your tank is ready for fish to be added you'll be all ready to go.


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