# Bubble Butt



## eelz212 (Dec 22, 2007)

hey,

i've got a black moor along with a fantail in a 10 gallon tank. it's too small, i know, but heck, it's better than the squalor of the LFS and it will have to do for a couple more weeks.

i've just noticed the moor literally has a bubble coming out of his butt. okay now i look again and it must have popped. anyhow, there WAS a bubble coming out of his butt and it was there for about 30 minutes. his behavior was normal, just as energized and hungry as ever.

anybody have any experience with this? if it isn't life threatening, at the very least, it must be fairly embarassing.


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## herefishy (Dec 14, 2006)

Fishy flatulance, maybe?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

It could have been so many things there's no way to say without having seen it. If it happens again get a picture of it and post it for us. With a visual of it, we can probably help you.
If the fish is acting and eating normally, I wouldn't be too concerned yet. My big concern is that few wks in a bowl... they will need daily water changes for sure, and keep the feedings to every other day until they are in a large tank.
Just so you're aware before you buy it, those 2 fish alone are going to need about 90 gallons or more, and yes, they grow that fast. Both fish will top out at about 8 inches long when full grown, and to go from 2 inches to 6 inches in a year or less is normal. 
Best thing to do now besides the daily water changes is to get an air pump and large air stone, and get it into that bowl. These fish use more oxygen than an average fish, and in a bowl that's already going to be an issue. The air pump should help a lot.


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## eelz212 (Dec 22, 2007)

thanks for the info dawn.

i understand that a 10 gallon tank is not much better than a bowl- but it is a tank and it's got a box filter that emits plenty of bubbles. i've also provided two air stones to provide lots of extra o2.

i was planning on upgrading to a larger tank within the next few weeks- when i have the space and resources- but 30 gallons is going to be the best that i can do. i don't want to sound inhumane because i really do care for the guys. but a 90 gallon tank just isn't feasible. it's odd, because in all the research i did prior to getting the goldies it said 10 gallons per would be plenty.

BUT i will do my best to find a happy medium as soon as i can, and until then i will follow your advice in terms of feedings and will do extra water changes.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Just to let you know, I understand your position on tank size, and maybe goldfish aren't the fish for you??? Even 1 goldfish kept in a 30 gallon tank will end up poisoned in its own waste, and it will suffer. A fancy goldfish is 8 inches long when its full grown... that's a lot of fish! take a piece of paper, cut out a chunk that is 8 inchs long and about 3 - 4 inches tall, then hold it up against a 30 gallon tank when you go to the pet store next... then picture where you would put 2 of them in there. That's about the easiest way I can explain it. A healthy goldfish should go from about 2 inches to about 6 inches in 1 yr or less. If this doesn't happen, chances are the growth is being stunted by water quality. If the water quality is bad enough to stunt growth, imagine what kind of permanent damage it is causing to internal organs? 
I don't want to be rude or disrespectful here, but keeping 2 fancy goldfish in anything less than 75 gallons for a long period of time simply is inhumane. I'm sorry, but I can't change the way it works...
The proper solution if you can't afford to properly house the fish you have, then maybe take them back to the store of find them suitable homes. Then work with fish you can accomidate instead. 

This subject reminds me of a jack dempsey a man brought in to us at the store once. It was the brightest, most colorful dempsey I had ever seen. I overheard the guy telling my manager that he did daily water changes of 50-100% and fed about 4 times/day, all good and nutritous foods... but he did it in a 10 gallon tank. The fish was a few years old, and he had brought it in to us in a bucket with barely enough water in it. Once we took the fish back to quarantine, it was the saddest thing I think I've ever saw. The fish's spine was zigzagged all the way from head to caudal (tail). The fish couldn't hold itself upright in a bigger tank, and it couldn't swim. This fish was about 8 inches long, so just barely fit into a 10 gallon tank, no room to move around, no room for anything. So for 2 1/2 yrs it lived in that small tank, and then 1 wk into a decent size tank, appropriate for that fish, and it died. That species average lifespan is over 25 yrs. What that guy did to that fish wouldn't be much different than putting two fantail goldfish into a 30 gallon tank long term. I just can't see the humanity in that.


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## eelz212 (Dec 22, 2007)

sheesh dawn! you're better at guilt trips than my mom!

Okay here's what I can do for you - and me - and of course my fish - oh, and the great karmic balance.

I've got a 55 Gallon long tank that my turtle used to live in. he's recently upgraded to a wider 40gal condo and his old digs have been sitting in the hall waiting to get picked up by the garbage man for weeks. I'm going to buy a stand or table and cram that thing into my room and start cycling it. Me and the guys are going to be very cramped in here, but thems the breaks. I'm sure THEY won't mind :roll: 

And yes yes it's only 55 Gallons and that doesn't meet the humanity standard, but it's going to be gigantic for them now, and hopefully will be okay for at least a six months or so. When they're 6-7 inches long, we'll go from there.

Dawn could you give me some tips on how I can expedite the cycling process for the 55gal? I want to get the guys out of the cesspool as soon as i can. It would be a severe bummer to set up this new aquarium only to have two terminally ill goldfish move in. Thanks!


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## eelz212 (Dec 22, 2007)

by the way, i would never bring these fish back to the store. if i'm being cruel, those guys are committing crimes against fishmanity. when i brought these two home i spent the first couple weeks simply nursing them back from the throes of ich and fin rot.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

LOL  I am a mother of 3, two of which are grown now, so I've had a lot of practice in guilt trips. ;-)
I am very pleased to hear that you are willing to do right by the fish, and for their sakes, I thank you greatly!!! I have found over the years that it is easier to be bluntly truthful about things like this, explaining in plain, simple terms, what exactly is happening and will happen to the fish. Most people don't realize the severity of such a thing.
The 55 should buy you a good year with them before needing to go larger, but as they grow remember to increase how often you do water changes. This is what will keep them in there as long as possible until you can figure something out. 

As for cycling the tank, the fastest way is going to be set it up, get proper filter and etc for them all running... fill it 3/4 of the way and let it run overnight. On the 2nd day, pour 1/2 of the water from each bowl into the tank, then take water from the tank about 1/4 - 1/2 cup at a time, and add it to each of their bowls. Get them acclimated slowly, over the course of about 20 minutes, or until the bowls are both full again with water from the new tank. Add each bit of water every 3-4 minutes to achieve this. 
Once acclimated (bowls are again full) then move the fish to the new tank. Take any gravel that is in the bowls and pour it into a nylon stocking, and lay this in the tank. You can remove it after a few weeks, but this will help to seed the gravel bed in the new tank. 
It will be better for the fish to be in the 55 asap, and if you can do daily water changes of about 10% during cycling, not touching the gravel or filter media in this time... easy on the food... your fish should do just fine through the cycle. 
Let me say... thank you!!! You give me hope!! I hope others can learn from your example... not just saving the fish, but in putting yourself out to do right by them once you bought them. That is an admirable quality in a person, and it will take you a long way in life!
If you need more help, please, ask away!!!!


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## eelz212 (Dec 22, 2007)

Thanks Dawn! I appreciate the kind words. I'm lucky in that I just happened to have a big tank laying around. It would have put me out a lot more had I needed to drop tons of $ on a fresh tank. But I suppose I would have anyhow, because I can't in good conscience send these guys back to a grimy pet store, or flush 'em, or even feed them to my red eared slider. Though, he might prefer that.

It seems like it's both a blessing and a curse that the goldfish is such a hardy creature. Their resilience is why people wrongly think they can be stuck in a bowl for a (shortened) lifetime, or that having one live for 3 years is a success story. They really must be troopers if they can survive in their own muck for that long - but that's not something I'm keen on putting them through. Too bad we can't get the word out, because I highly doubt that even 1% of people who casually buy one are informed of what it takes to keep a healthy goldfish. Cripes, I thought I'd done my homework, but it wasn't until I looked at 8inches on a ruler that I realized how ill prepared I was, and how right you are. 

Truth is, I would love to see these two at that size. They'll be awesome fish! And if they could live with me for 20+ years, that would really be something to be proud and happy about.

I'll try and take some pictures and start a separate thread for my new tank, that way you can see these eternally grateful dudes.

Before I can start setting it up I need to buy or fashion some sort of sturdy stand so the tank's off the floor. I'll try and get that together very soon.


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