# gupgram



## gupgram

Hello, I am newbee.  I have looked this site over and sure like what I see and have found. I just started a freshwater 20 gallon guppy aquarium in April. Very new to that! My new family members as of March are 2 orange sunshine fancy male guppies, 1 mixed purple/orange make guppy, 3 orange sunshine female guppies, and 2 leopard corries. Also have 2- 14 day old (6/11/11) guppy fry. Unfortunately the first breeder tank...all the babies escaped out the vents! Got new breeder and saved 2! Oh and I made a 'sandbox' for my corries. They love it. 
Do have many questions and some problems with my tank and am getting frustrated! so will try to find my way to post them. 

gupram


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## redchigh

Welcome to the community.

Next time you're at the fish shop, pick up another cory. They like groups of 3 minimum.


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## gupgram

I know but was told not to add any more fish until my tank is ok. A gal i know called and gave me a number of an aquariust of 20+ years just about half an hour ago, I called. Said my tank seems to be going through a mini cycle and to expect my nitirite to climb a little more and Amon. go down. Then things should be ok. Also said it was a good sign that the green on my sponge now has little brown spots instead...good bacteria. I think on my first water change, I over did it on my cleaning including the sponge even if I did clean it in the old water. Said don't clean sponge on a major cleaning day! Wait until next water change then swish in old water taken off. Think this sounds right?? Thank you! gupgram!


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## Byron

Welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum. Glad to have you with us.

Yes, that was good advice, clean the filter media in some tank water, since tap water with chlorine will kill the good bacteria.

Byron.


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## brownmane

Welcome. I have a 20 gal with 7 lemon tetra, 2 panda cories and 3 laser striped cories. I just started the 20 last October and am enjoying it. 

I think that you will find a lot of useful info to help you succeed in your venture. Everyone here is happy to help.


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## Beaches

*Hi gupram....*








Welcome to the forum!


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## onefish2fish

welcome to the forum.


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## gupgram

Why thank you so very much everyone! Wow! I don't feel dumb for asking questions. I have been stuggling and today after being put in touch with this aquariust she really helped, but I have read so much and it became so confusing! 

I can't use my tap water, it is treated well water with iron filter and softener. The well water came from my Mom as her's is not treated in any way. But there lies the problem I THINK! I don't have a phosphate test but how much nitrate it had! Read later that in farm area water usually does have a lot of phosphate and just learned that it feeds algae! 

And I did learn, don't clean the sponge the same day as you do a good cleaning even if washed in the old water taken off! I didn't swish it! I really cleaned it in the bucket! 

I am still concerned about the sponge for UP to 25 gals in my 20 gal. Guess I should wait and see how this maybe cycle turns out? 

Could all this stress be why the Mommy's are not dropping the fry (and they are preg! when I bought them as gravid spot was big now bigger, dark and fat tummies!) I have had them since the beginning of March. I hope they are not sick. They are very very active and eat good, no signs of sickness. Can they not drop the fry or breed if the water is not right and lots of stress? 
Once again, thank you for the warm welcome. Gupgram


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## gupgram

Hi Beaches! I was treated in 2007 by a doctor in the US and from Queensland Aus. A treatment these two docs developed for RSD/CRPS. So hey up here to you down under! What do you have for aquarium(s)? How long? gupgram


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## gupgram

And Bryon, in 2006 spent 2 months for a study at Richmond Hyperbarics Center! Lived in an apartment in Burnaby! We could see the Lion Mountain & can't remember the name, know they used the slope at last Olympics, see the lights every night! Those two were like our compass point many times! Was there from late 5/06-8/06. So very beautiful up there but holy cow the traffic and finding my way around was a challenge the first weeks! Loved the needle, and areas in Vancouver. My freind who also went for treatment had freinds in CoQuitlam (sp). The doc from Richmond, my friend & I became good friends with him. He took us around and can't remember the coves, but one of the hyperbaric techs was also a Kayak instructor and has top certification in rescue for ALL types of Kayaking we went to where he taugh day of opening. Such beautiful cove! Miss all the kind wonderful folks back there! Got to do hyperbarics with a movie star there that was in Elf! What do you have for aquarium(s) and fish? How long? gupgram


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## Byron

gupgram said:


> And Bryon, in 2006 spent 2 months for a study at Richmond Hyperbarics Center! Lived in an apartment in Burnaby! We could see the Lion Mountain & can't remember the name, know they used the slope at last Olympics, see the lights every night! Those two were like our compass point many times! Was there from late 5/06-8/06. So very beautiful up there but holy cow the traffic and finding my way around was a challenge the first weeks! Loved the needle, and areas in Vancouver. My freind who also went for treatment had freinds in CoQuitlam (sp). The doc from Richmond, my friend & I became good friends with him. He took us around and can't remember the coves, but one of the hyperbaric techs was also a Kayak instructor and has top certification in rescue for ALL types of Kayaking we went to where he taugh day of opening. Such beautiful cove! Miss all the kind wonderful folks back there! Got to do hyperbarics with a movie star there that was in Elf! What do you have for aquarium(s) and fish? How long? gupgram


It is beautiful here, I must say. I have 7 tanks at present, you can see the photos under "Aquariums" below my name on the left. I've been active in the hobby about 20 years. B.


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## gupgram

Bryon, your tanks are breathless! I so wish! I know I must be patient! Lost another fry today...well I euthanized it in ice water. I hope the last one will be ok. It is a male fancy and he has always been strong. To bad the rest had escaped from a dumb breeder tank. I got 3 of them before they got eaten. In effort to stop algae, read where you can put blanket over tank. I did but still fed babies 4-6 times but at one week, no light the one's spine got bent, then it just got weak even though it ate. I bent in a V. So last week euthanized it. Read where fry needs the light and won't eat in dark. Only had blanket over tank 3 days last week. 

Today, I put last fry in this breeder tank where a mother fish is on side in a bigger tank, then when she drops her babies, they are gently funnled into this little side tank that has a gentle bubbling. This Mom I am hoping will drop her fry.  Her belly is full & squarish and gravid is black, think I see an eye. Am worried about it cause I still have a light algae bloom, param. are PH. 8.2, Am. .25, Nitirite .05, Nitrate 10. How long can this mini cycle last?? :roll: gupram


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## Byron

I would wait it out. Partial water changes, minimal feeding. Don't fret about the fry, you will have tons in time.

Thanks for the compliments. Good luck to you.


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## gupgram

Oh! On partial water changes. How much for a 20 gal. I still wonder about my sponge filter for up to 25 gallons if I should get a different filter? I mean I plan on some more corries and maybe alge eaters, then some fry's but will cull them. What do you think? And thank you so mcuh~gupgram


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## Byron

gupgram said:


> Oh! On partial water changes. How much for a 20 gal. I still wonder about my sponge filter for up to 25 gallons if I should get a different filter? I mean I plan on some more corries and maybe alge eaters, then some fry's but will cull them. What do you think? And thank you so mcuh~gupgram


A third of the water can be changed, using a good conditioner. One that detoxifies ammonia and nitrite would be best. _Prime_ does this, and _Ultimate_ too. There maybe another, can't remember the name though.

A sponge filter will be sufficient, with a weekly 1/3 water change when everything is normal.


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## gupgram

*Water changes*

I so appreciate you helping me and please excude my questions, like I said feel so confused. I use new Tetra AuquaSafe Plus for water conditioning. 

LfS does not have the Prime or the other you mentioned. 

I am still confused on this alage bloom considered a cycle as the LFS aquariust (he has had aquariums 20 years or but he does manage Pet Supplies Plus, he said my water in a mini cycle Numbers should start to gradually lower and balance out. 

June 7th, param. were PH 8.4, Amon 50; nitrites 2.5, nitrate 50 ,PH 8.2. Was told to get spring water 8 gallons and change out did.

8th, PH 8.2, nitirte .05, nitrate 20; am. .25

12th PH 8.4 , nitirte same, nitrate 20. am. .25 (called an was told to add more new Nurtrfin so I did).

Today, PH 8.2, nitirite not quite .05, nitrates at about 15 not 20 for sure. Am. not quite .25. So it seems the tank is cycling with the numbers slowly dropping like he said but not much of a change. Changing water makes more sense to me.

I can't find the kind of sponge you have. This one came from another LFS and it was already seeded but his store is well yuck! I most of his tanks are clear but not that great. A lot of white calcdium build up on all of his, over crowding and haven't been back since I got my fish, or just to look for Prinme today. 

So, wonder if I got an aqua clear filter or Fluval (sp) filter leave present sponge in until they are seeded or cut some off it and put it in the new fliters to seed them quicker and maybe I would only have to change the water once or twice a month once better as I have to buy water? And they would be quieter than this bubbling as my duahter in laws is very quite. Oh and ideally I would like to change to sand substrate really bad and since the tank is water is messed up any way would this be a good time to? I only have 6 pounds of gravel, barely covers & guess I was supposed to have a whole lot more like 20 punds or something. Again really want the sand. Couldn't I move the fish in the water I have now and placing them in bowl while I do all this, maybe using a wet vac which has the suction power to suck out the gravel or just scoop it out? 

I sure wish I had found this site before I started and you!! Bryon again, thank you so very very much! 

God Bless, gupram


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## gupgram

Oh boy so late and my spelling looks it!


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## redchigh

The sponge will be fine. Just give it time and keep up the W/Cs.

If you want a secret that I do, then add a teaspoon of sugar every day until ammonia is 0. It stimulates biological activity.
Just make sure it doesn't lower O2 levels too much. The fish will let you know if so by swimming at the surface.


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## Byron

gupgram said:


> I so appreciate you helping me and please excude my questions, like I said feel so confused. I use new Tetra AuquaSafe Plus for water conditioning.
> 
> LfS does not have the Prime or the other you mentioned.
> 
> I am still confused on this alage bloom considered a cycle as the LFS aquariust (he has had aquariums 20 years or but he does manage Pet Supplies Plus, he said my water in a mini cycle Numbers should start to gradually lower and balance out.
> 
> June 7th, param. were PH 8.4, Amon 50; nitrites 2.5, nitrate 50 ,PH 8.2. Was told to get spring water 8 gallons and change out did.
> 
> 8th, PH 8.2, nitirte .05, nitrate 20; am. .25
> 
> 12th PH 8.4 , nitirte same, nitrate 20. am. .25 (called an was told to add more new Nurtrfin so I did).
> 
> Today, PH 8.2, nitirite not quite .05, nitrates at about 15 not 20 for sure. Am. not quite .25. So it seems the tank is cycling with the numbers slowly dropping like he said but not much of a change. Changing water makes more sense to me.
> 
> I can't find the kind of sponge you have. This one came from another LFS and it was already seeded but his store is well yuck! I most of his tanks are clear but not that great. A lot of white calcdium build up on all of his, over crowding and haven't been back since I got my fish, or just to look for Prinme today.
> 
> So, wonder if I got an aqua clear filter or Fluval (sp) filter leave present sponge in until they are seeded or cut some off it and put it in the new fliters to seed them quicker and maybe I would only have to change the water once or twice a month once better as I have to buy water? And they would be quieter than this bubbling as my duahter in laws is very quite. Oh and ideally I would like to change to sand substrate really bad and since the tank is water is messed up any way would this be a good time to? I only have 6 pounds of gravel, barely covers & guess I was supposed to have a whole lot more like 20 punds or something. Again really want the sand. Couldn't I move the fish in the water I have now and placing them in bowl while I do all this, maybe using a wet vac which has the suction power to suck out the gravel or just scoop it out?
> 
> I sure wish I had found this site before I started and you!! Bryon again, thank you so very very much!
> 
> God Bless, gupram


Let's take this one issue at a time.

In a 20g with the fish mentioned in the initial post of this thread, a sponge filter will be adequate.

The cycling seems to be on track from the numbers posted. Don't rush it, it takes time.

Changing substrate is a bit involved but it can be done. I would wait though until things are settled.


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## gupgram

*I think you are so right...*

Today the param, the PH is still 8.2. Amon. is just maybe .25 but getting closer to 0, Nitrites are now 0 (was .05 yesterday, Nitrates dropped to 10 instead of 15. The cloudy green has not worsened at least. The bubbler for the sponge is annoying. I rest a lot in my recliner here. That is why I was wondering about a different filter system for quietness. Thank you! gupgram


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## gupgram

*Good params, but now more alage...*

Hi there and more questions,

Well the param. are where they should be now I think and what a change in 24 hours. PH was 8.4-7.8; AM. .25-0; Nitirite .05-0; Nitrate steady at 5. BUT! The algae is not just suspeneded anymore and buildi starting to build some in my breeder tank and I think on some of the gravle, so bet it is on the plastic plants. I can't see any on the glass. but kind of hard to tell. The guppies are hanging more at the top and less active which they have always been very active . I only feed every other day other than the baby and Momma to be. I did discover this morning that the sun has swung more east so 1/4 of the tank gets hit in the morning for I think about 1 1/2 hours . I will cover that end with a blanket before I got to bed tonight. My yellow triangle fosm filter the green aglage is gone and has brown spots. I was told this is good as it it good bacteria, the param. really dropped in 5 days since it appeared. I opened the lid and kept it open for maybe more oxygen?? 

My Java Moss does not come until next Wednesday. Should I get like 3 ottos now ? I know I need more than one. And I only have 2 corries. Is it time to get 1 or 2 more a little while after I get the ottos? The lights are on 8-10 hours. (17 watt Flour.) Less is not good for the fry. The water does not have an odor. 

Thank you once again!! gupgram


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## Byron

Algae will appear in tanks with nutrients and light; in the absence of live plants there is nothing else to sue the light and nutrients so algae will. When you ahve the plants this will help. Keep direct sunlight off the tank, that will add to algae issues again especially without plants.

If common green algae or brown algae (diatoms) are present, otos will settle in fine. Wait a bit before adding more fish.


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## gupgram

Ok, will do. I ordered a phophate kit today, along with an Aquaclear 50. I do plan on eventrually adding more than the Otto's. Petmountain has great prices! I had a coupon so also got free shipping anything over $49. Also got a Master API test kit. The dumbe Red Sea nitirte, is hard! You have to hold the color card 8" below bottom of test tube, look through the test tube with one eye! Do you think the Java Moss is enough as a low light plant as long as I don't let it take over. I can also get Wisteria for low light. I will wait some day to go to sand substrate, as you are so right, the fish have been stressed enough. Also realized the original LFS when I took my water in after 3 weeks to see if it was ready for fish, she just looked at the API amonia test tube from across the counter (at least 5 feet) and declared it fine! I really don't think my tank was fully cycled! The nitrate went up again to day to 20 from 5 but isn't that supposed to be good for plants? The rest are 0. Ph back up to 8.2. Hard to believe water can change in 24 hours! It was clearly 7.8 yesterday from 8.4. Fish seem fine but Momma not dropping babies and rest are not breeding but understand not unusual until water param are good. It has been a long haul it seems since April. Just need guidance as to when to do what. Course you can't tell right?


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## Byron

gupgram said:


> Ok, will do. I ordered a phophate kit today, along with an Aquaclear 50. I do plan on eventrually adding more than the Otto's. Petmountain has great prices! I had a coupon so also got free shipping anything over $49. Also got a Master API test kit. The dumbe Red Sea nitirte, is hard! You have to hold the color card 8" below bottom of test tube, look through the test tube with one eye! Do you think the Java Moss is enough as a low light plant as long as I don't let it take over. I can also get Wisteria for low light. I will wait some day to go to sand substrate, as you are so right, the fish have been stressed enough. Also realized the original LFS when I took my water in after 3 weeks to see if it was ready for fish, she just looked at the API amonia test tube from across the counter (at least 5 feet) and declared it fine! I really don't think my tank was fully cycled! The nitrate went up again to day to 20 from 5 but isn't that supposed to be good for plants? The rest are 0. Ph back up to 8.2. Hard to believe water can change in 24 hours! It was clearly 7.8 yesterday from 8.4. Fish seem fine but Momma not dropping babies and rest are not breeding but understand not unusual until water param are good. It has been a long haul it seems since April. Just need guidance as to when to do what. Course you can't tell right?


Nitrate (with the "a", not nitrite with the "i") increasing is a sign of good cycling, so nothing wrong there. Plants prefer ammonium as their nitrogen source, which is why they grab ammonia so fast. But slow growing plants like Java Fern obviously use less that faster growing as Wisteria. The more plants you have, the less nitrate because more ammonia (ammonium) is being grabbed by plants and not bacteria so there is less nitrate.

Wisteria needs a bit more light, it is moderate to high light requiring. Java Fern will not likely take over your tank, it is not a particularly fast growing/reproducing plant. Wisteria could take over a tank within a few weeks.


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## gupgram

*Thank you so much!!*

First thank you so very much for explaining the plants. My computer went down before I saw the answer. My friend gave me this floating Wisteria. She has like a Betta, I think a Goldfish and some other kind. So I put it in. The guppies pulled it apart and made a mess! The Algae bloom got worse and then one of the new Otto's I found dying (about all gone) in it!! It was a mess! I was like what now? The params. on the 20th were PH. 8.4 (been using a high PH kit, didn't know there was a low since I just got a master kit today so not real sure which to use...more in a minute). Amo. 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5. 

So now the almost dead fish and green water (No algae on glass, now slime on plastic plants or ornaments), so took the Otto out and the Wisteria. Changed out 6 gallons water. Added an Aqua Filter 50, but left my now very brown gross looking sponge in unitl the Aqua Clear gets 'colonized'. Do you know how long that will take? It sure is QUIET!! (With the RSD, in pain a lot, so sleep in reclyner a lot and bubbling is loud). I did test the water after the change. Params. are: low PH test was 7.6, high PH test was 8.2; everything else is 0. OH, and got an API nitrite test now. The Red Sea one was awful!! You had to close one eye, look through the tube holding card 8" below tube! 

Wow, the fish are swimming all around...guppies, Otto's, and Corries. I sure hope the other 2 Otto's will be ok. I only feed every other day. My Java Moss did not come in yesterday, still waiting on it. NO more Wisteria!! 

I umm, was in tears for the dead little Otto and frustration of the Algae! Long haul it seems since April, but know the first LFS was NOT correct that my tank at 3 weeks was not finished cycled. I hope I get my tank to look CLEAR like yours are soon!! 

Why specially one whole side of the sponge dark brown all the way through? Do I use High PH or Low PH test? Do you know how long to let the AquaClear work before removing sponge? Do you think I can then cut down my sponge filter and put it in a new gallon tank for future baby guppies if it is brown? 

Any and all help will be so appreciated! I like how Wisteria & Java Moss you can click on them and it gives all about them!


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## Byron

Sponge filters should be rinsed out regularly, i do mine every week. They are good at capturing particulate matter, and bacteria readily grow on them. The brown sludge is a sign the filter is doing its job.

On the pH, I would test the tap water with both and then use the one that is the same (hopefully it will be, or very close) to what the water supply folks say the pH is.


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## gupgram

*Understand the sponge...*

Hi Bryon, 

Well it is really brown over half of it through and through. I would like to cut it down to make a fry tank and use it in that. The fry tank will be in a different room, so I won't hear the bubbling. I will rinse it in old tank water once a week. Should I now be changing the water daily as some say for algae bloom or once a week? 

My params always seem good and the spring/ distilled water mix is the same PH as the tank water. Oh did test my first phosphate test but did it after the watercahnge. It showed 0 phosphate. Now to wait 24 hours and see what the params are I guess. 

I do cover the tank so the morning sunlight won't hit it. It will hit about 1/8th area at the end of the tank sort of from an angle. It sits in the middle of the family room wall. The north side windows are about 8-10 feet away facing south. The tank is on the west wall. No other windows in the room. I keep the 17 watt Flourecent light on 8-10 hours because of the one baby guppy I have. He is doing good and is a month old. Hmm, since we are in this room so much maybe my chair side light is adding to it in the evenings. It is about 12 feet away. If Roger (my hubby) has his on it is a little more lightin the room, should I cover the tank as soon as I turn out the tank light? 

Everything is O but the nitrate which is 5. The 16th it was 20, next day 10, then 5. If you could guide me as to how often to change the water and how much. I know I need to let the AquaCleaar do it's job too. 

Well tomorrow is our 39th anniversary! Doesn't seem possible! 

Take care!


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## Byron

When the tank light comes on and goes out, there must be light in the room, whether daylight or lamps. Otherwise the sudden change can shock fish.

What is this algae bloom, white cloudiness or green?

I'll see this tomorrow, going off momentarily.


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## gupgram

*I knew about the 'light'...*

Hi guy, I knew about the 'light shock' factor. So after the sun is off the tank, the room is light, I take the blanket off, wait about 15 mintues before I turn on a room light, wait another 15 mins. then turn on the tank light. Then I wait about 1/2 hour to feed if feed day for them, all but the baby and I feed it about 4 times a day, and never feed it then turn the light right off. Tonight I turned the tank light off, the room is brighter than I thought with both lamps on, so waited 15 mins then covered the tank. The lights face the tank! I am up late to about 12M. Sooo, waiting until I go to bed to cover the tank, thats a lot of light it is getting! 

The bloom color is green! You can see the green specially if I dip some in a white cup, or when I take it off...yup! Green. We been using that water for our garden. 

Hey, my dear friend who was with me for treatment in Richmond in 2006, is coming to Vancover and Richmond in August to see her friends there and the folks at Richmond Hyperbarics! I sure wish we could come up! I am orig. from NH so LOVE mountains! 

Good Evening and you are a blessing!  My hubby thanks you to! Just keep telling us some day our tank will look good!


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## Byron

I might suggest not using the blanket, if I understand this correctly. Contrasts from that intense a darkness to any light then back to darkness, more light, etc is not likely to be beneficial. The tank light itself should be on regular hours daily, it can vary from as little as 6 to 10 or 12, depending upon plants, algae, etc., but a regular schedule is a good idea. You can set it to be on when you are there to enjoy it. A simple lamp timer that you can get in a hardware store will work for this.

Direct sunlight is something thaqt should not be allowed to hit the aquarium. It is not so bad in winter when the sun is less intense, though that can still be problematic. Not only the light aspect but heat too. I have blinds in my fishroom that allow lots of daylight in but no direct sun.

Now to the green water, that is caused by unicellular algae. It means there is too much light and probably nutrients too. Are there live plants in this tank, sorry, I've forgotten.


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## gupgram

*On algae and lights..*

Ok, understand on blanket even at doing it by degrees, but will have to cover the one corner as the AM sun even with mini blinds gets on it for about 60-70 mins.. Only have sun in North windows for about 4-6 wks this time of year and shorter amount each day since we hit 6/21. 

My Java Moss did not come in this Wednesday. If you can read back a couple of posts, disaster with floating wisteria. One of my Ottos got his tail all tangled in it and he died.  The params are really good including Phosphate. Everything 0 but NitrAte is 5. Water change is at the same params! Have a master API kit. But read that heavy metals can also feed alage? I use inoized & ultraviolet treated spring water mixed with some distilled. Before the distilled, params were not the same unttil I added just the spring. Our well water is awful & we have water softer & iron filter.
I only have a 17 watt Flroecenet light. Wouldn't it be better to get a decent light, some really good plants along with the Java Moss? I would like a planted aquarium but know my ligth it not good. I did NOT like the Hornwort or Wisteria! (Wish my puter had not gone done before Cara gave me some and I caught your post! What a royal mess! Her type of fish don't pick at it. She has better lighting.

When I changed the 6 gallons, no algae on the glass, & very very little on the plastic plants. Not like back in May. It seems mostly suspended alge. 

Today I did rinse the sponge in left over tank water from yesterday. Just squeezed and swished a few times. Only 2nd time since I started in April that I did the sponge. 

What kind of light bulb and plants for a guppy tank please!? Java Moss I did order so will use that tied to a properly prepared piece of dift wood or would a lava rock be better? I am going to town tomorrow so can get a better bulb for the hood light. Plants i must order. The other LFS...yuck! 

:-? Tryiing Gram here! This end of the North side of house is shaded pretty good with many trees so light from window is not real bright, only in AM. Most of the time we use a lamp.


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## Byron

If the fixture is f;fluorescent tube, measure the tube end to end not including the prongs and that is the size. Look for a T8 ("T" refers to the diameter in eighths of an inch, there are T12 which are thicker and now they are moving to T8 that are thinner and more energy efficient) in a "daylight" or similar, with a Kelvin around 6500K. Phillips and Sylvania make these, I have used both, they are fine. Can get these in hardware or home improvement type stores for a few dollars. If you are OK with the considerably extra cost, a fish store will have tubes made by Hagen (their "-Glo" series, the Life-Glo 2 is best) or ZooMed (their Ultra Sun is best) in T8.

If it is incandescent screw-in bulbs, go to the hardware or home improvement store and look for "daylight" made by GE. If you have one bulb in the fixture, a 20w, if two then two 10w will work. I think Phillips and Sylvania also make these, again you want "daylight" or something similar with a Kelvin around 6500K.

Java Moss will take to wood or rock; a nice look when the moss grows over these. Java Fern would grow easily, it also attaches to wood or rock. Brazilian Pennywort is my favourite stem plant, it like moderate light and grows either rooted in the substrate or can be left floating, it is excellent floating. As is a true floating plant, Water Sprite if you can find it. Pygmy chain swords will grow easily. All these are in our profiles, click the names to see the info and photos.


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## gupgram

*Will do on the light....*

Thanks! Will get the mention bulb (long one) today with Kelvin at Lowes. I checked at Pet Supplies Plus a few times and talked to the the head of the aquarium department Sat. and he has had FW aquariums for over 20 years! The store tanks are most excellent conditon as are the fis h and plants. All that work the aqua. dept. have been aquariusts for over 10 years. The other LFS is dirty and lied to me about saying my tank was cycled when it was not!

For plants they don't have a lot, and ordering on line is not an option as the shipping is way out of range! Two plants, the Sprite & Pennyworth was almost $19 and the plants were only $5.18!! At Pet Plus they have Red Flame Sword potted (echindorus) for Mod-strong light, and Lutea (cryptocoryme) for low to moderate light. They do have Braz. Pennywort so am picking up today. They have another plant when I checked Sat. forget name, it is bright green tiny leafed plant potted but they think and I do to, the guppies will really tear it up! My Java Moss should come next week and the dept. head is giving me a piece of his African drift wood he has in his fancy guppy tank for the Java Moss. He showed me a pic of his tanks. They look so beautiful like yours! ( They gave me his number which he does not mind, I called him and so was there Sat. when I got there.) Do you think the Red Flame Sword & Lutea is ok? He is not there today and forgot to ask about fertilizer? I have to leave in about 10 minutes but will check my e-mail from town. 

And one of my guppies so far has had 9 fry this AM. Her last she dropped at 11:05am. No more since but she still looks black at her gravid spot. I have another one due and well sort of think it may be today or tomorrow the way she acts and the other guppies are at her gravid spot. I hope this Momma gets done soon so I can put the other one in the breeder tank and take her out! 

I will be back in town tomorrow for lab work so can pick up the other plants if you think it is ok. 

 gupram


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## Byron

The red sword should be OK. Pennywort definitely. Crypts are fussy plants, you might want to wait a bit before venturing into them.


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## gupgram

I got the Pennywort, I like the look! And the Red Sword looks nice to. I sure hope my Java Moss comes in next week. Sometimes on plants Pet Supplies said, they order but only get some things. Not sure where I can find some. I am very leary of Pet Smart about 30 miles from me. Not good report. What do you use in Vancouver for LFS? Oh and the only light I could get was a 20watt Hagen Glo. No Glo 2 or the other. Lowes had none of the cheaper alternative. WOW! That bulb was $18 plus tax! 

I am not going to feed the fish other than the babies, for about 5 days to see if this will help it will the algae bloom...do think. I need to try for sleep. 

Good night and words cannot exprress your help and expertise!  gupgram


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## Byron

gupgram said:


> I got the Pennywort, I like the look! And the Red Sword looks nice to. I sure hope my Java Moss comes in next week. Sometimes on plants Pet Supplies said, they order but only get some things. Not sure where I can find some. I am very leary of Pet Smart about 30 miles from me. Not good report. What do you use in Vancouver for LFS? Oh and the only light I could get was a 20watt Hagen Glo. No Glo 2 or the other. Lowes had none of the cheaper alternative. WOW! That bulb was $18 plus tax!
> 
> I am not going to feed the fish other than the babies, for about 5 days to see if this will help it will the algae bloom...do think. I need to try for sleep.
> 
> Good night and words cannot exprress your help and expertise!  gupgram


I am lucky to have a few very good and reliable sources for fish and plants. Canadian Aquatics, Aquariums West, April's Aquarium, Island Pets Unlimited are my main sources, sometimes Petland.


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## gupgram

Wow that is really nice to have so many reliable places. I needed a colonized sponge for my fry tank. Pet Plus does not have them, so tried the Pet Connection! UGH!!! The sponge was totally dark brown. She said, the darker the better. OOOKAY! So got it. Oh my gosh! I rinsed it when I got home and the 2 quarts of water turned muddy brown! No alternative as I needed the sponge. Put in fry tank! Goodness the particulates from that sponge have made a mess on the bottom of the tank. I have with a turkey baster siphone off a lot of stuff from the bottom. You can't move that sponge but it 'sheds' so much. The fry are so far doing good, but think tomorrow, I think I will do a 20% water change? My plants are doing very well but the water is still very green. I am shortening the time the lights are on. Other than room lights, it gets I guess what you call 'ambient' light from windows? Almost no more sun in the AM on it, (I always cover the end of the tank till all sun gone). Params are still 0! even the phosphate. Don't the plants need some nitrate? Should I fertilize the plants? Thursdady will be one week since I did a 6 gal. water change, so should I do it again Thursday so plants get more light? Those are the 3 questions.

Thank you! gupgram


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## gupgram

*Oh my gosh!!*

You would not believe what I found this morning. Rog has worked 4pm-1am. I never come in the family room until about 8-8:30am so assumed the sun was only hitting that one corner which I covered each night with a light pink lap robe since mini blinds are not enough on these double hung windows. Here since Rog is on days, I came in at 6am. The WHOLE front was bathed in sunlight!!! I am so embarressed!  NO wonder there is algae no matter what I did! Params this morn are very good including KH 7 degrees, GH 8 degrees. On everything including phosphate but water is so green and has a little odor like a tiny bit swampy. How much do I change out? I have 6 gals. ready and the params are the same all but PH is 7.4 instead of 8.0, KH is 5 instead of 7 and GH 5 instead of 8. I can harden the water I think with a little API salt as I did in the very beginning and once a month ago with 1/2 dose of salt. Hesitate because of the plants now, ottos and corries. 

Byron, I feel like a dunce! :roll:


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## Byron

What is this API salt?


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## redchigh

Don't use aquarium salt in freshwater aquariums unless you're treating a disease. It's toxic to freshwater fish.

If you have ottos and cories, then 7.4 is a little high... raising it is a bad idea. 7.4 is fine for livebearers...

Crypt Lutea and red flame sword should be fine in medium-medium low light.


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## gupgram

*API salt and guppies...*

Here is just one quote of many from sites like guppytripod, guppy.com and more. 
*"The water*
The aquarium should be cycled and you should make sure that the water quality is kept at an ideal level at all times. 
Guppies live in fresh and brackish environments in the wild and adding some aquarium salt to the breeding aquarium is a good idea. One tablespoon (15 ml) of salt is enough for 10 gallons (40 L) of water. "

Also there are many who say yes, many who say no. Guppies adapt very well to high PH but not to low. Better not to mess tyring to lower it all the time. Same with a lot of people with Corries. One guy has kept guppies for 17 years, with the salt and his Corries are still living and are about 7 years old. His fathers has some 9 and 11 years old. Same with certain kinds of ottos. Many have said it is a myth to have salt as it is tooix to plants. Depends on the plants and your water. My corries, I have had them almost 3 months and they are doing great. The ottos going on the 3rd week. I however am more conservative with the salt and used only have the amount recommended when I first set up athe tank, and only once since at 1/2 the recommended amount. Also many make the mistake of adding salt with every water change. There lies the issue. Salt does not evaporate so if you keep adding each time you do a water change it builds up. A good quick overall for guppy care is this link: Guppy Facts I know I am new to a lot but feel that there are so many different positions on different things because after all, most do not have the same water typ as eveyone. Just an educated guess there. 

I just hope I finally found out the reason for the algae bloom! No wonder could not figure it out. I do not over feed, the params are good, proper water changes. But to discover early sun in the morning from the North windows for about I think 2+ hours this time of year! Duh! I did change 6 gallons of water today. The plants Byron recommended, the first I got last week are looking very well. I am concerned about the root systems and need info no fertilizers I have read about, but don't want to do anytihing to add to algae bloom. So do they need it or wait and see? Byron had be me get Lutea and Brazillian Pennywort. Have a new light bulb, all I could get. was Glo series 20 Watt. At least for now I can see the plants and fish! Sure will pull the mini blinds down and cover with the light wt. pink lap robe I was using when I thought the light was only hitting a little of the corner, it will go over all but the end facing our living room.


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## Byron

Salt is a topic on which there will be differing opinions. I will just offer a few comments from my research.

First on the guppy habitat, while it is true that a few populations do occur in brackish water, in its habitat it thrives best in freshwater (be it swamp, ditch, mountain stream) with thick aquatic plant and algae growth.

Second, guppies like all livebearers must have medium hard or harder water with a basic or alkaline pH. Fish that need these conditions usually manage better with salt in the aquarium. But that does not mean they should have it, or that it is risk-free.

Third, salt does affect fish; it is detrimental to freshwater fish and plants in varying degrees. To understand why, we must understand what salt does in water.

Salt makes the water more dense than the same water without salt. The aquarium contains water. The bodies of fish and plant leaves also contain water [just as we do--we are, what is it, 70-some percent water?]. The water in the aquarium and the water in the fish/plant are separated by a semi-permeable layer which is the cell. Water can pass through this cell. When either body of water is more dense, the other less-dense body of water will pass through the membrane to equalize the water on both sides.

Water is constantly passing through the cells of fish by osmosis in an attempt to equate the water inside the fish (which is more dense) with the water in the aquarium. Put another way, the aquarium water is diluting the fish's body water until they are equal. Freshwater fish regularly excrete this water through respiration and urination. This is the issue behind pH differences as well as salt and other substances. It increases the fish's work--the kidney is used in the case of salt--which also increases the fish's stress in order to maintain their internal stability. Also, the fish tends to produce more mucus especially in the gills; the reason now seems to be due to the irritant property of salt--the fish is trying to get away from it.

Dr. Stanley Weitzman, who is Emeritus Research Scientist at the Department of Ichthyology of the Smithsonian Institute in Washington and an acknowledged authority on characoid fishes, writes that 100 ppm of salt is the maximum for characins, and there are several species that show considerable stress leading to death at 60 ppm. 100 ppm is equal to .38 of one gram of salt per gallon of water. One level teaspoon holds six grams of salt, so 1 tsp of salt per gallon equates to more than 15 times the tolerable amount. Livebearers have a higher tolerance (mollies sometimes exist in brackish water) so the salt may be safe for them.

Plants: when salt is added to the aquarium water, the water inside the plant cells is less dense so it escapes through the cells. The result is that the plant literally dries out, and will wilt. I've so far been unable to find a measurement of how much salt will be detrimental to plants; all authorities I have found do note that some species are more sensitive than others, and all recommend no salt in planted aquaria. There are some species that can do well in limited salt.

Byron.


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## gupgram

*That was wonderful info!*

I know I have read on most guppy sights about adding salt so when I was really new, I did as fancy guppiers said as I have fancy guppies. However, as I said, the first time I only use full dose. Back in first of May, on one of the water changes, I did add some but not quite half what was recommended. I do know that in spite of what some have said, one place made so much sense to me. Don't keep adding salt at every water change cause it does not evaproate. It just gets stronger. 

I SO appreciate your knowledgeable info and helping me to under stand it. I have not lost any guppies despite the LFS telling me I was cycled but not, so a bacteria bloom and then to the algae bloom, but have done all those water changes since first of April when i started so not sure there would even be any salt left? I mean, I have added more gravel, plants and a few more fish. Now the gentelmen that had tanks for years using salt, well, in all those years, they probably have their own stock and haven't bought any for a long time. (17 & 19 years) As far as I have read, the guppies of today and thefancy guppy which many are by breeding is more delicate. 

Back in 1950-1977, we never saw fancy ones, only ones that had round black, orange, blue,yellow or purple spots and that was all. My Mom had guppies in a 10 gallon tank, she first got in 1959, then in 1972 I started with some she gave me. We both had a box filter, heater, well water NO testing what so ever, no water changes always had clear water, when Momma's had babies we scooped them up and put them in pint or quart jars and never heard of cycling or any thing. They just TRHIVED!! And imagine the babies in canning jars, no filter, no heat (we put them on our registers in the winter, yet they grew, lost very very few. We gave a lot away and those survived and thrived! For us , how did they die after all those years? We had a wicked blizzard, no electricity for over 5 days in 1977! NO Heat! We both lost them all after all those years. So now here I am in 2011 trying and guess you can imagine all the new things and stuff! Overwhelming! And to all specially Byron, I do give heartfelt thank yous! I am a newbie since so much has changed and the hardiness of guppies. I wonder what happend to all the simple spotted ones from back in the '50's-70's? That was all we could find and at Woolworth's at that! 

Um that is why I am a gup GRAM! My Mom is now 84. I will be 62 in Sept. 

Do any of you maybe umm, senior folks have tropical fish stories from back in time? I would love to hear them. I hope I don't offend anyone by asking us 'older' folks this question.

You younger ones will have to keep us in line!:lol: God Bless!


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## Byron

I'm 61, so not far.

It is amazing how some fish can "manage" in what is less than ideal conditions. I can't explain that. But my apoporoach is simple: provide an environment reasonably close to what the fish require, and chance are it will be healthier. We can't in most cases "see" what is going on internally, so why risk it.

Byron.


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## gupgram

It is amazing,the guppies thrived back then! 

Do my new plants, the Brazil Pennyworth and Lutea need any kind of plant food and the Java Moss when I get it?
As to this algae bloom, is there anything else I should be doing? The params remain very stable. So want clear water to see my pretty pets better! Should I shorten the light on time or not good for the plants? Right now I am doing 10 hours on a timer. Only light I can get is GLO series 20 watt. Feed every other day and what they eat in 1-2 mins. no more. Have the tank now protected from AM sun. Tank is on west wall, with north windows about 8-9 feet away with TV blocking some of the window ambient light. Running a sponge filter (do as Bryon said and rinse every 2 weeks) and a 50 Aquaclear installed 8 days ago with a piece of my original sponge put in it too. 

If I am doing anything worng please tell me, ANY suggestions will be appreciated. No other other place for the tank, and anyway it would be in rooms full of windows! 

gupgram


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## Byron

gupgram said:


> It is amazing,the guppies thrived back then!
> 
> Do my new plants, the Brazil Pennyworth and Lutea need any kind of plant food and the Java Moss when I get it?
> As to this algae bloom, is there anything else I should be doing? The params remain very stable. So want clear water to see my pretty pets better! Should I shorten the light on time or not good for the plants? Right now I am doing 10 hours on a timer. Only light I can get is GLO series 20 watt. Feed every other day and what they eat in 1-2 mins. no more. Have the tank now protected from AM sun. Tank is on west wall, with north windows about 8-9 feet away with TV blocking some of the window ambient light. Running a sponge filter (do as Bryon said and rinse every 2 weeks) and a 50 Aquaclear installed 8 days ago with a piece of my original sponge put in it too.
> 
> If I am doing anything worng please tell me, ANY suggestions will be appreciated. No other other place for the tank, and anyway it would be in rooms full of windows!
> 
> gupgram


Plant fertilization depends upon the aquarium. Nutrients occur in tap water (brought in with each water change), and from organics. If the plants are growing [which means, remaining alive, no decaying leaves] after a few weeks, they may be getting all they need. If not, a liquid fert like Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive dosed once a week will be sufficient.

You can reduce tank light down to 6 hours, so you have room to go yet if you have 10 now. As long as algae is not increasing uncontrollably, the light is fine.


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## gupgram

*UV Sterilizer...*

Hi there,

Been ever so hectic with bringing my Mom home from re-hab with me to care for her, so apologize for the delay in answering!

My params remained so consistant. 0. incl. Phos. The plants, a few leaves I had to pinch off as they were turning yellow and found a little of like slimy roots that were not buried all the way. I did not find this until I did a 6 gal. water change then I bought an AA Green Killing Machine for $40. I read all the reviews I could find. I really think I have to much ambient light from the windows and lights are always on in this room and now my Mom has to have her table with a bright light right at the end of the tank. The water is clearing up very well. I got it on July 4th. Day after I got it, a Mama had her babies finally. For the longest time they just did not drop the babies. They have their own 2 gallon tank with a colonized sponge and doing very well. I will cull them out as soon as I know wht they look like. 

I have kept the spong filter running as well as the Aqua Clear until the algae is gone. I understand I am to change the water 3-5 days after installing the UVS. I will tomorrow, change out 5 gal. Plants are now looking so good and so nice to see the fish and plants! They are so active! Oh one male is so well aggressive to the females. He drove one female twice into the rocks and injured her eye...now she has what I found...popeye! She is eating and acing fine! But again, If I need to change or do something different please tell me. Thank you in advandce! Gupgram :-D

I will keep you all up to date.


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## gupgram

*Fin Rot or what?*

My water even though it went through an algae bloom, I put on a UV steralizer and in 5 days did a 5 gal change, cleaned the little blue sponge as instructed on the UV, the water is clear and through this all the params stayed 0!! But one of my pretty male gup's his tail started to look ragged (it was like a long flowing kind of rounded) at the top and in about 3 weeks about half gone. I finally caught one of the males nipping it. Now today, he is sluggish, the very ends of the ragged eges look kind of transparent not holes though. He seems to maybe loosing a little of his body color. I am setting up a gal. hospital tank with a good colonized sponge, that API Marine salt at 1 tsp. salt to a gallon is a good first step an up the temp. to 80 degrees. Right now I have him in a breeder tank in the main tank as the water warms (also with Aqua Safe plus and a llittle Nurtrfin in it the hosptial tank) and he is just swimming gently around then will just hang at the top. His fins seem a little clamped. No other signs in the other fish of fin rot or sickness. 

Is there anything else I should do please? I am unsure of antibiotics. Will the antibiotics hurt my good sponge forever? Do I also do water changes to and if so how often?

Thank you in advance for any advice. Gupgram.


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## gupgram

OOPS! I mean I added 1/2 tsp. of API salt not a tesp. He semms to like his new hospital tank. The sponge was to big but I did squeeze it a little to get nutrients from it. He is picking away at it on the bootom. Swimming with more energy. I took the air hose from the sponge and put it into the gallon jug and have it bubbling away in it. He swims to the top a little but mostly is exploring the bottom and all around. I sure hope this helps him!


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## Byron

I've very little experience with disease issues, but it sounds to me that you're on the right track. Good luck.


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## gupgram

*Well we shall see!*

Hi there,

I went to guppytripod and found some really helpful info and sure hope it works for this little buddy. He is so pretty and I hate to loose him! I just had to put a female down last week because her uterus ruptured! I know I am well a softee but I cried. 

As for the info from tirpod, it was very helpful. It REALLY helped when I signed in it was mentioned. I went to guppy aliments & remidies. Here if I am allowed is some info form there that might help others.
Salt Treatment: 
This is a treatment that is as old as the aquarium hobby itself. Treating with salt is undoubtedly the safest way to treat fishes. While chemicals such as Formalin, Malachite Green, and copper are considered by some to be more reliable, these are strong substances to impose on a guppy and must be handled with care. Using salt is especially handy with guppies, since they are built to withstand a lot of salt - they do that quite well. Salt is especially effective against fungal infections and some parasitic problems such as ich. If diagnosis is difficult, try salt. Normally the salt treatment lasts 10 days. Note: This bath is not intended as an additional treatment and should not be combined with other medication.

Anyway it gives a 10 day guide. I think by reading that my little buddy has been bullied (at night a lot!!) by another male I caught him doing it day time today! So little guy has badly nipped tail and I think some fungus has set in. I hope this works but they want a well ariated tank and all I have is the tube down in the water blowing bubbles at a goodly rate. I have a heater in the gal glass jar and rising the temp to 80 from 78. Usually my main tank is 76 but weather has been so hot here. 
Until I add the right amount of salt, he had started to welll like just mid float and kind of a wobbly back and forth motion and seemed to breath fast. Now he is swimming up and down, pickng again at bottom where some of the stuff from the sponge filter is. I JUST don't want to loose him!  Well, I am doing my best and that is all we can do right?

SOO wonderful to have algae bloom gone! The UV sterilizer is wonderful! I have turned it off today as current is pretty strong for the three week old fry I added. They were just staying in the current and that was it. Couldn't eat either. When I turnred it off, they have been swimming every wherel Understand I can turn it back on if algae bloom returns. I still pull blinds and do a light blanket to keep AM sun off and my fry tank too.

And Byron, the Braz. Pennywort is beautiful as are the 2 Lutea and believe it or not...a Flaming Sword!! They are growing so much! Oh on Flaming Sword it has reached the top of the water now. Am I supposed to do anything about it? They all look so pretty!! I think you would be proud cause it is because of your knowledge they look so awesome as does my tank!! 

A grateful gupgram!


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## Byron

> And Byron, the Braz. Pennywort is beautiful as are the 2 Lutea and believe it or not...a Flaming Sword!! They are growing so much! Oh on Flaming Sword it has reached the top of the water now. Am I supposed to do anything about it? They all look so pretty!! I think you would be proud cause it is because of your knowledge they look so awesome as does my tank!!
> 
> A grateful gupgram!


You're most welcome. Leave the sword, it will grow as it grows. Sometimes removing outer leaves repeatedly will tend to keep it smaller, but I've never done this.


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## gupgram

*I lost my little buddy,*

Hi there, I found little buddy gone this morning. I sure wish I had been aware that nipping could lead to I think fungus. But he was nipped in one area right at base of tail and understand the fungus can get in the blood stream. He was beautiful. The Bully does not bother any other male or fish. Bad boy! The rest seem just fine. I turned my UV back on and hope I got him out in time. Oh I did put a colonized sponge in with him about 6p yesterday. I better throw it away right? It has salted water in it.

And some how I know have all these teenie little brown snails. Have removed 23 in 24 hours. I have a turkey baster and just suck them out and out the door! I have had this tank since April. Where I get the plants not one of there tanks have snails, are exceedingly clean, but not where I got the fish. But I do not mix the waters! I slowly add mine and take out theirs and dump it in a big disposable cup. Net the fish out and then put in tank. I saw no snails in the new otto I got a week ago. 

Gosh! Hopefully if I keep taking them out they will go away? Does anyone know? I can't find the one big one. Well, it was about the size of my pointer finger but has never grown. Is one snail able to produce? 


gupgram


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## gupgram

Did some reading! I got ramshorn snails I think and bet your bottom dollar it was the otto I got about well 10 days or so ago where I have got all my fish but the LFS is not a clean place. NEVER again! The girl that got the otto, did drop the bag in the tank but quickly grabbed it. Understand eggs can even stick to the bag. I am going to try the carrot trap. Large piece of carrot on bottom, wait few days, snails are attracked, in AM pluck it out, clean them off and put carrot back in same spot. Some say, the ramshorn are ok, others say get rid of. Know better than to ues chemical. If carrot does not work, then lettuce, but I have carrots on hand now. Hmm, not sure if they will hurt my plants. I see them on the glass and so far not on the plants or none of the plants look like they have been attacked but yet they just appeared first one then in day 23!! They crawl fast for little critters acorss the glass! Got one on the edge of the sand box (bowl). Hmm, may sound dumb, but can they get in my Aquaclear? gupgram


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## Byron

I never bother over small snails, they are very useful. The ones that can "hitch a ride" on plants, wood, etc (rarely with new fish) are Malaysian Livebearing, Pond, Acute Bladder or Ramshorn. None of these are plant eaters, they eat decaying plant matter but not good live plant leaves. Although one member did report ramshorn snails eating her plants. I would keep an eye on them, whatever they are, and unless the plants start being eaten, leave them. They will get into every spot, including the filter; when i clean my canisters I find dozens. They certainly are ot eating plants in there. Snauils perform a tremendous service in a healthy tank.


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## gupgram

Well then I will keep them and watch my plants. I think they do give a natural look. I would like to eventually get rid of the plastic plants and want some like lower back ground plants that don't get tall. The Java Moss, I think I will have to try some place different if that is nice back ground low plant. 

What is funny to watch, I have "bowl" as a sand box. Some of the guppies, going "boing, boing" across the sand and bowl like it is a trampaline! To funny! They love to play this! 

Take care...gupgram


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