# Oscar sick?



## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

So... I have a 10 gallon aquarium with the below specs:

Temperature 80Ã‚Â°F
pH ~ 6.0-6.1
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrates Unknown

I have three small angels, a pleco, and an Oscar. It's a planted aquarium with an amazon sword, some wysteria, and a piece of driftwood I bought to help keep the pH low.

I noticed yesterday (June 14th) that he was hiding or just sitting on the bottom side, near where my light is located, slowly breathing. He was aware of my presence since his eyes were moving. He used to eat very readily. I would be feeding him all the time and he always seemed hungry. To me, it sounds like some parasite. Ideas?


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## leifthebunny (Mar 13, 2007)

6.0/1 is way too low for oscars, they prefer the 7-7.5 range. Plus, those fish will outgrow that tank fairly quickly.

How often have you been cleaning the tank? Oscars are pretty touchy for water quality and are also sensitive to chlorine/chloromines. How is the coloration of the fish?


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, he's been in there for over a month with no problems with the pH. Like I said, he used to have a really big appetite, and now he hasn't eaten in the past two days anything that I have given him.

I've been doing 20% water changes every week or so. The coloration of the fish is fine.


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## Julie's Julies (Jun 11, 2007)

How big is your oscar? From my research, they can get 12+ inches and require TONS of room. A single oscar needs 40 gallons to himself due to his territorial disposition; a 55-gallon can hold a pair. He might need more room than the 10-gallon is giving him; I have also been told that they do best with only other similar-sized cichlids (even though Angels are part of the cichlid family). Just a thought. Hope he improves!


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

oh, an oscar will easily reach 15"+ and would be powerful enough to bust the glass on a 10 gallon tank with no problem. Even though he "fits" in there right now, you are stunting his growth as well as the growth of the angels. Your pleco will probably grow no matter what because they tend to do that but he will get about 19"...and your tank is 20"! Angels will grow to about 6-8" so you have about 58" of potential fish in your tank. If you want to give them any kind of humane environment at all, you need to upgrade soon. Oscars can also be very dirty animals so make sure you are checking your nitrites and nitrates as well as the other parameters. Another thing to consider is that angels can actually be more aggressive than oscars at times. Oscars are big and aggressive but are easy targets for smaller nippy fish. I learned that the hard way when I had tiger barbs terrorizing one of my oscars awhile back. Angels are actually in the south american cichlid family but there is a possibility that they have dominated the tank. When oscars feel scared they will usually go off into a corner and sometimes even lay flat. Anyways, time for a bigger tank


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Heh, okay, people. I appreciate the comments, but they do not solve any of my problems. All my fish are happy no matter what you guys say. And besides, he will be moving to a larger home anyway. SO, again, any ideas about why his appetite has suddenly dropped, and why he sits at the bottom all of the time? The angels have not been picking on him. I know that from simply watching them for hours-on-end. In fact, he used to pick on them. The size of my tank, or the choice of my fish are not my immediate concerns.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

well except that a fish does not need to pick on another fish to be a dominant fish. When we get oscars in the store occassionally we get a shipment that are smaller than average. When put with the larger oscars they just huddle in the corner. Even though the large ones are not picking on them, they still huddle in the corner. This also means that they do not freely search for food when the tank is being fed because the dominant fish get "first dibs". All I'm saying is that a school of 3 angels could pose a threat to an oscar even if he once nipped at them. (many fish actually nip as a defense when they feel threatened as well). Also, if this is the case than the oscar is enduring prolonged stress in the tank. Combination of stress and too small of an environment will cause some fish to become lethargic which means they are inactive and do not eat readily. Just because fish once got along perfectly does not mean that behavior can't change. Fish develop dominance over time and that dominance switches between groups of fish or individuals all the time. In my tank for instance, there are times where my angel dominates the tank and there are times where my gouramis dominate. With all due respect, we are not trying to "scold" you or anything be we are actually trying to solve your problem. 
It could very well be that your problem IS the kind of fish you have in such a small environment and maybe that should be your immediate concern. You also have not told us your nitrite/nitrate parameters yet. Poisoning from either could result in lethargic behavior as well. Besides behaviors that you mentioned, do you notice any physical irregularities of the oscar? Look for breathing patterns, growths, discoloration, protruding scales, reddened gills, torn or rotted fins, etc. If he actually appears to be fine, my best guess is still that it is due to angel dominance in a small environment.


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, truthfully, this episode has developed, literally, overnight. He was very active, and eager to eat. He's larger than the three angels, and they never bothered him anyway. He doesn't have any irregularities now, except his very poor appetite, and resting at the bottom of the tank. He has slowed his breathing, I've noticed, but that is likely due to his inactivity.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

many episodes occur overnight so i'm still holding on to my theory. If you don't want to accept it though, thats up to you. Other reason he may not eat could be due to constipation. Its actually not as uncommon as you think with oscars, especially when they suck down dry pellets that can potentially expand inside of them and cause a blockage. Use of Epsom salts in the water serve as a natural laxative that could help. If he will eat at all, try chopping up pea hearts and feeding them to him. Another question...you mentioned that he stays towards the bottom...do you notice any bouyancy problems when he does swim. Like does he swim upwards and then just sink irregularly?


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

I thought it might be constipation as well. I noticed that he tried to poop earlier. He isn't fed anything larger than small plankton or blood worms, however. He hasn't any buoyancy difficulties at all. He is still fast at swimming and he can properly maintain his balance. You're probably right. I guess I'll have to move him to a larger tank.  I just wanted to make sure that there might not be parasites, or some type of bacterial infection where I might have to quarantine him.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

well thats why I asked about the bouyancy. If there was a swim bladder disorder that is often due to bacterial infections. If you think he may be constipated somewhat then possibly try epsom salts and/or pea hearts (thaw out some peas, take off the outer layers and then chop up the meaty inside and give it as food). Both of these things will not harm the fish even if it is not consipation. In fact, I regularly feed chopped peas to a lot of the fish in our store, including oscars. Overall though, I still think that it is just a matter of the tank size. You basically have 4 south american cichlids in there and they need enough space to declare territories. The oscar alone will eventually need a 40-50 gallon tank...so make you next tank a big one. Good luck though and I hope things work out.


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Thanks for the help!


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Okay, while you may be correct about the size of the tank etc. being part of the problem, I have just gotten the little guy to move some, and there appears to be some white stringy material trailing from his anus. It looks like some type of discolored poo, but I'm not sure. It seems as though this might be an internal parasite or constipation problem as I had expected... SUGGESTIONS?!


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

ahhh now we could be on to something. It sounds a lot like Hexamita, which involves protozoans in the lower digestive tract...actually common to oscars. It sounds purely internal but take a look at the oscars head region and along its lateral line. These protozoans have been associated with Head and Lateral Line Disease (also known as Hold in the Head disease, common with oscars). Hexamita can take internal and external forms and are usually treated sepperately. 
Internal Hexamita usually shows signs of lethargy, lack of appetite and white stringy feces...sounds like a match? Most common treatment for this is Metronidazole, mixed in the oscars food and put in the water. I would look up Hexamite online and see if it sounds like a possible fit.


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

You might be right. He still has the white feces attached to him. I'm out of Metronidazole, but I already have some Parinox, which also treats Hexamita, on the way.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

good deal  I hope everything works out for you...let us know!


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Thanks a lot for the help. He appears to be somewhat stable now. The white fecal matter is gone, and he's a little more active, though he still is not eating.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

well you just treated him a few hours ago...give it time  Thats good that you notice improvement today though. Once he does start eating again, try my trick with the chopped peas. It actually helps bring out the color in oscars too but I dont know the science behind that aspect. Oscars often suffer from malnutrition so make sure he is getting a good stable diet of pellets, frozen and vegetation. They even love small cickets too as insects are part of their natural diet. Avoid live feeder fish for as long as possible.


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## gem (Jun 12, 2007)

Just puttin' my two cents in. I won't bag on you about the size tank you have him in....though....well....you've alrady heard that. 
Two thoughts......you mentioned that you do about 20% w/c once a week. Oscars are fairly dirty fish that rely on really clean water. I would A. upgrade filtration 
B. Do larger water changes or more frequent water changes

As for diet, it's my understanding that they are an omnivorous species and require a good deal of vegetable matter in their diet. Some protien is ok, but veggies are a must. The only foods you mentioned were meat based. 
You have apparently found out what his current illness is and I hope he improves.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

personally I wouldnt up the ammount of water you change at a time, especially in a small tank. Large fluctuations in water quality can actually harm a fish. Like if you had water that was pretty bad and you did a 75% water change on it, you can actually harm the fish that way even though the tank is cleaner...especially if pH fluctuates a lot. I would do what gem also suggested...small water changes but more often. When you do upgrade tanks, go overboard on the filtration as well. JUst keep an eye on your water parameters though and that will tell you how often you need to clean the tank.


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Trying to locate a 70 or 80 gallon tank. I already have a new Emperor 400 and two new 300 watt water heaters. My birthday is coming up, so hopefully the world will be good to me.


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## mHeinitz57 (Jun 9, 2007)

lol, that would be an awesome tank upgrade  I would throw another filter on there though, maybe even a canister filter. The emporer 300 is a good filter but a 70-80 gallon oscar tank is a lot for it to handle...even though its rated up to 80.


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## gem (Jun 12, 2007)

I agree with the two filters on that 80 with an oscar. You can't overfilter an Oscar tank. 
When I said "larger" water changes.....I wan't referring to Humugous water changes. I do about 30 %. Not much larger that is already being done. 
Hope ya get that big tank soon! You'll have to post pics. and Happy B-day in advance! 8)


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Thanks!


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## Picklee (Feb 22, 2007)

Okay. Here's the update. I still haven't gotten my meds yet in the mail evil, but I have already gone ahead and set up a clinical tank for my oscar to be treated in. It's 3 gallons, I've made the water 0.2% salinity for a nice salt bath, and I've added a long air stone for for the best aeration. 

I moved him from the Angel tank. The Angel tank was more acidic so I'm going to gradually (0.1 / day) raise the pH to a comfortable 7.2 with sodium bicarbonate. I've been slowly raising the temperature as well, trying to get him to eat, but, as far as I'm aware of, he hasn't yet.

He has been hiding a lot underneath a large piece of driftwood that I have in the other tank. I thought this private get-away would make him more comfortable. He seems to be doing fine in his new quarters, however, I've noticed some discoloration on his scales. His color has weakened a lot since this began, but now, under some light, a brown streak is apparent on his spine just below the dorsal fin. Maybe it's just the lighting. :roll:

I'd love to post pictures, but it's difficult with the poor lighting, and I don't want to use a flash since he's probably stressed out enough as it is. I've also noticed what appears to be the true beginning of Hole-in-the-head disease. There is this white spec thing somewhat protruding (very, very small at the moment) out of his head on the left side. I'm assuming it's the workings of an epithelial leisure, but I cannot be certain.

Any additional comments, advice, or dis-advice would be greatly appreciated.

I can't wait until those meds get here!


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