# Tang cant close mouth and is bloated



## Gower

My sailfin tang, who is about 4 yrs old, seems like he can't close his mouth, and he also seems a little bloated toward the front below the gills. I think the crease of his side fins may be a tad reddish too. He has had a mild case of hole-in-head which I am trying to correct with better diet, but it does not seem any worse then before and I don't think is related to this recent problem. Otherwise, he is acting pretty normal, except he grabbed a bite of food that just hung out of his mouth until he shook his head since he didn't seem to be able to bite it. Anyone heard of this? Thanks, Laurie

General Info:
1. Size of aquarium : 75 gallons 
2. How long the aquarium has been set up? 4 years
3. How long and how did you cycle the tank? 3 weeks, long time ago. I have alot of live rock, and rarely detect any nitrates (but do have algae problems on occasion)
4. What fish and how many are in the aquarium (species are important to know)
big sailfin, small blue tang, blenny, 2 clownfish
5. What temperature is the tank water currently? 79
6. What make/model filter are you using? bioballs in sump
7. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? not direct sunlight, but room is bright from windows
8. When did you perform your last water exchange, and how much water was changed? yesterday, 15 gallons
9. How often do you perform water changes? 4 to 6 weeks 
10. How often and what foods do you feed your fish? prime reef flakes daily, algae sheets or Formula 2 pellets (soaked in vitachem) about twice a week, frozen formula 1 for the anemonies (and fish eat some)
11. What type of lighting are you using and how long is it kept on? 2 actinic white and 1 blue, turned on for 10 hours a day
12. What specific concerns bring you here at this time? tang acting strange
13. What are your water parameters? Test your pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, salinity, GH, KH and salinity level. salinity 30 (haven't tested others since just did water change)
14. What test kit are you using and is it liquid or test strips? liquid
15. When was the last time you bought a fish and how did they behave while in the pet store tank? no recent additions,other than snails


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## onefish2fish

welcome to the forum.
hmm. i cant say i know however sailfins if your un-aware grow to a foot and a half. the tank should prob. be a MINIMUM of 125-150 gallons. how big is your sailfin?

another concern is bioballs. these are excellent in freshwater as they provide multiple surfaces for benificial bacteria but in salt they seem to gather detritus and debris raising nitrate levels. 
lighting is power compacts? you spec. the type of bulbs but not the lighting fixture itself. what kind of nems?

please possibly post a picture for better aid in this situation.


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## Kellsindell

Welcome to the forum.

What kind of anemone do you have and how long have you had it? The only thing i could say is the anemone stung it and caused the bloating and the redness is a scar or sting mark from it. what other livestock do you have in the tank? Corals other inverst.


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## Pasfur

Have you recently begun to feed Freeze Dried Krill?


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## Gower

Pasfur- No, I haven't used freeze-dried krill, but I did recently feed the anemonies and the sailfin some frozen Formula One. They have some new gel binder which I think is awful. It is so hard and doesn't seem to break down readily, so I am wondering if that could have something to do with the Tang not being able to chew effectively.

Kellsindlel- I have one orange rock anenomy and 6 bubble tips that keep dividing (no aptasia), and a zenia and alot of rocks covered with mushrooms, and two urchins, and zillions of bristle worms (which I think are good for getting rid of the excess food/debris). But I don't think the fish was stung becuase the pinkish color is right close to the body at the body/fin border. I am not sure if that is real or even a symptom, and I think may be more related to the skin problem (lateral line). I did get some live rock a month ago, and there is a little brown shrimp living in it. I was worried it was a mantis since my other cleaner shrimp was mysteriously killed. But I dont think it looks like a mantis.

Onefish2fish: I wasn't aware the saiilfins get that big, but have been concerned that he may be outgrowing the tank. It is possible he bumped himself on some rocks or something, but the symptoms (to me) don't quite seem related to that kind of injury. He can sort of close his mouth, but doesnt seem to want to chew. He is just sort of sucking in small pieces of food.

The lighting is actinic VHO, with 3 long bulbs strapped to a wooden lid. I agree about the bioballs; the do create a lot of debris. It was what was recommended to me at the time. 

My current efforts: Photo attached. The folks in the local marine store thought it might be parasisitc, and sold me some of the Ich-Attack organic treatment. So that is what I am trying now, twice a day for a week. They also suggested using garlic on the Tangs food to help with the lateral line disease. Any thoughts on these treatments?
Thanks for the replies, Laurie


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## onefish2fish

well, first off the fish is too large for the tank. i can tell from the picture. its fins are even open. 
second the "brown shrimp" that was found is possibly a pistol shrimp
3rd i would ditch the bio balls and do more research on those meds. Im not familiar with the brand but i do know ich meds can be devastating to a tank. I feel your fish does not have ich from the picture provided unless it is in its dormant stage. The VHOs are not strong enough lighting to sustain anemone life. I would imagine your feeding them often which is a factor of them growing large and prob. splitting.

What is your goal for this tank?


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## Kellsindell

Onefish, you can keep anything under anything. i think the VHO's will be fine. I know a very respectable reefkeepers keeping an anemone species only tank with PC lighting. He just needs enough wattage.

As for parasitic... it doesn't look like ich.


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## Pasfur

Gower said:


> The lighting is actinic VHO.
> 
> The folks in the local marine store thought it might be parasisitc, and sold me some of the Ich-Attack organic treatment. So that is what I am trying now, twice a day for a week. They also suggested using garlic on the Tangs food to help with the lateral line disease. Any thoughts on these treatments?
> Thanks for the replies, Laurie


I think the lighting is fine. I think it is a horrible idea to keep anemones for all of us. They rarely live longer than 5 years in captivity and their natural lifespan is over 200 years. 

Garlic and lateral line have nothing to do with each other. Garlic is intended as an appetite stimulus and immunity booster, effective at helping rid parasites. 

That being said, I do not have a suggestion yet. I do not think you have ich, but I suppose you could have an internal parasite that has infected the mouth. But it seems highly unlikely. I am not familiar with the medication you have been given.


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## Gower

Regarding the anenomies, they seemingly have fluorished since I have had the same one for the whole 4-5 years, which has multiplied many times (unless dividing is a bad thing). My clownfish would be mighty unhappy without them (they are breeding away happily). If I was going to take an animal rights stance about the anemonies, then I wouldn't think it right to have any of the wild caught fish, which seem to suffer alot more than anemomies.

Regarding the ick-attack. They suggested it as an all around treatment, even though there doesn't appear to be ick. And since they said it won't hurt the soft corals or fish, I figured it would at least be worth it with respect to the lateral line disease (which some people say is parasitic) for both my tangs. So far, after two treatments, it does not seem to be helping the mouth closure aspect.


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## Pasfur

On anemones, it isn't really an opinion issue. For decades the hobby has been unsuccessful in keeping them. Nearly every leading authority in this hobby suggests that they not be kept because they do not live long term. The reason anemones do not thrive is because we have yet to identify their long term care requirements. Congratulations on your current level of success, hopefully your anemones outlive their peers.

The issue with fish is completely different. It is not a lack of knowledge that kills fish. It is the hobbyist who does not care enough to provide the correct environment. I agree with you, it is a shame that wild caught fish suffer in the hands of people who won't take the time to learn how to keep them, despite the fact that this information is widely available.

I have never seen any reference of lateral line being connected to a parasite. Is this something you have been told, or is this something you have read from a reputable source?


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## Gower

I dont recall, but I think the info on the lateral line disease was from a web search. It seems like there were numerous things listed. While you say that information is widely available on the fish, it is perhaps too wide, and hard to sort through the numerous suggestions from all the sources. Anyway, I am guilty of not having time to go read all the sources, and often just rely on the local aquaculture store employees (who are quite knowledgable). I probably need tp give it up and find a better home for my little finned friends.


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## michelleandbrett

*lateral line disease*

I don't have much to suggest about the bloating but wanted to make a few suggestions on the problem with lateral line disease...we got two fish with our tank that had a really bad case of laternal line disease so have been doing a lot of research on the topic. We've only been trying stuff for about 2-3 weeks but seems to have helped so far (or maybe its just wishful thinking). Its not totally understood why it happens but seems to have something to do with stress. 

1. High nitrates have been known to cause it. You don't sound like you have a problem with that but just something to watch for other people who have the problem.
2. Diet - not getting enought Vitamin C and in a few cases vitamin A has been known the be related. If you think the diet is fine some people still suggest to add supplements to the water.
3. Voltage - people have tested their water with a voltameter and gotten a reading of as high as 25 amps? because of all the heaters, powerheads, pumps, etc in the water. getting a grounder should help fix that and we picked one up for only $15 at a LFS.


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## Gower

Yes- I do have the grounder in the tank, and suspect it is dietary (although my water conditions are not always great). The local shop said to add Garlic xtreme along with more algae (although someone else said the garlic was just to make foods taste good and had no beneficial value). Good luck with yours as well.


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## onefish2fish

michelleandbrett said:


> 3. Voltage - people have tested their water with a voltameter and gotten a reading of as high as 25 amps? because of all the heaters, powerheads, pumps, etc in the water. getting a grounder should help fix that and we picked one up for only $15 at a LFS.


 
free voltage is not the same as voltage that has a "path"

for example. a bird can sit on a wire with alot of voltage running through it. once a "grounder" is attached the bird is harmed. make sense?


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## Gower

So are you saying that the grounder which they recommend at all the fish stores is not a good idea?


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## Kellsindell

It doesn't always work or get the volts fully out of the water.


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## Gower

Update; My sailfin has recovered, and seems to be chewing normally. It is hard to know the reason, whether it was the parasite medicine, the vitachem soaked algae, or maybe he just recovered from some injury. The anenomies didn't like the medicine (mainly it just polluted the water with alot of organics), but they seem ok now after a big water change and protein skimmer. Now, I hope the better diet will help to cure the lateral line disease over time. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.


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## onefish2fish

you should avoid dosing meds in a display tank! it is best to remove the sick fish to a hospital tank for dosing. a tank esp. one with inverts (for example, the anemone) that gets dosed with meds will effect inverts as they are sensitive to them.


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## Kellsindell

agreed, but congrats on getting through this. Next time you should consider using a hospital tank rather then the display. Just get a 10g from walmart, cheep filtration and then you can dose more freely in there. There are articles everywhere about hospital tanks, just google it.


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## Gower

Understood. But the aquarium is in my work office, so it is not easy to set up a quaranteen tank. And it would be hard on this big fish the 10gal one I have. The store seemed to think this organic concoction was reef safe, and so far, it doesn't seem to have caused too much damage. Thanks,


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