# Are german blue rams really injected with hormones?



## Austin (Feb 1, 2010)

I've seen this around a lot that german blue rams are injected or exposed to hormones to increase their colors. Is this true? It wouldn't surprise me, except for that fact that I don't typically hear this about other fish. Why do it to german blue rams and not other fish? That's the part that makes no sense to me.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I have read that a number of times as well. If the fish are small and exhibiting mature breeding colors, then I would be suspect.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

A well coloured ram is worth a lot of money. They are given the fishy version of testosterone to get their breeding colours up. 
It can make them look nice at the seller but fades away a bit after you bring them home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Austin (Feb 1, 2010)

That's so sad! They are naturally beautiful fish! I just don't get why they would only do this to rams. It would seem well colored fish of other species would also be desirable.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

It's done with apistos as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Any time you see juvi fish displaying mature colors it should make you wonder....


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## Austin (Feb 1, 2010)

Well I don't know enough about them to know what mature colors are and whether or not the ones at the store are even juveniles.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

That's what the Internet is for  You can look at pics of adult fish AND juvi fish. For many species, the two may not look anything like each other.


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## Ogre44 (Nov 5, 2011)

I've read about this with african cichlids as well.
Brighter colors = more $$$$


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## Austin (Feb 1, 2010)

Well, I'll find out. Hopefully I get some babies to raise at some point? It's still sad though...


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## Crazyfish (Feb 3, 2014)

As if messing with our food isn't sad enough, they are messing with our ornamental fish too :evil:


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

suggest going through a private breeder or someone on the forums to get your stock.although there are still no guarantees,you will be able to start an actual conversation with them and have a better chance to get your desired stock.


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## Austin (Feb 1, 2010)

I would buy from a breeder but I've never had rams before and I didn't want to buy expensive fish in case I can't get them to survive. Although most breeders are not much more money its the shipping that ruins it.


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

I think Mika's are still breeding? . . . can't hurt to ask?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Chesh said:


> I think Mika's are still breeding? . . . can't hurt to ask?



Well, her fish are....  I think she runs into trouble keeping the fry alive. Don't quote me on that though, it's just what I remember her saying.


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## Austin (Feb 1, 2010)

Hmmm well I already got some from petsmart. Return policy helps when trying new fish. And I think I found a petsmart that's a little farther (in the middle of nowhere, basically) that seems to have healthy fish. Honestly I don't think they are pumped with hormones because they colored up once they got used to my tank compared to the store, and they don't appear unusual to any other photos or videos I have seen... 

Does anyone know, though, what would be a good temperature? I've read that plants like temperatures 80 and under. I don't want to kill my plants. Would 80 be okay for this guys? They have been doing okay in quarantine but that tank has been hot for ich treatment... They probably love it. Not sure what temperature my 75g is at right now since I haven't used the thermometer to check since it has been used for the ich contaminated tank (ichs been gone for 1.5 weeks now or so). I've just been using my hand. Think it's about 80.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

mikaila's are kept at normal tropical temps, 78-80, and they look terrific and are breeding. She says the fry are the ones that need the really warm water.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Petsmart rams are pretty bad quality IMO. If you have them in Quar. right now I would hit them with copper cuz more likely then not they are carrying something. Hormone/color treatment are done via water or food and very likely done to petsmart and petcos fish. Growth hormones and heavy use of Astaxanthin and other food additives. Usually they are too stressed to tell much of anything in the shop tank but the big give away is usually their size and coloration not how they are colored. All in all they look quite different then fish you would get from a proper breeder at that size. Petsmart rams are not going to be as hardy, so if you do have issues with them don't take it as you can't keep rams or something. Well bred and reared rams are quite hardy. Temp wise anything from 76f to mid 80s. Fry need mid 80s. Plants can be quite heat tolerate well above 80, but it varies from species to species. Couple of my planted tanks are kept at 80-82. I had a 10g full of hornwort that was 86 for months and it produced plants just fine. I'm not really picky on temp since fish usually are not. From a decent breeder young to unsexed rams run $5 tops. When buying unsexed tho don't expect them to look much of anything like what google shows you. Hobbyist breeders fish never look as nice at that size cuz they are not suppose to, its a juvi and it should look like a juvi. Info online is just that, and never applies to everything. My rams are local bred, its pretty easy to find breeders local to me. Their tank is currently 8.3pH sometimes drops down into 7.8pH, temp ~82, about 50% water change weekly. 

I currently don't sell rams, not counting the MN weather ATM. I have 3 pairs in a 40B that spawn up a storm. Then a young unproven juvi. pair that is already claimed. Jaysee is correct with the raising tho, theres a considerable learning curve. I haven't been entirely unsuccessful but success rate is very near to zero. Its usually always at the same point over and over again... so one of these days. I pulled a spawn from them last night, after I told them they were not gonna spawn until tonight so I could have a chance to get a 10g cleaned out for them, but no dice. This spawn probably won't last till the weekend, they ended up sharing a tank with at least 100ish rainbow eggs.


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## Austin (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks for all the info mikaila. It's really sad to hear all of that! I guess there aren't enough people who, like me, would actually pay MORE for a less colored (as a juvenile) german blue ram that hasn't been loaded with hormones or fed unhealthy feed, or else pet stores would stock them more... The limited availability is the killer. With the rising demand for organic foods and such maybe eventually people will want naturally raised fish! I suppose I will see how the few I already got end up doing (I already impatiently just moved them to my main tank 2 days ago after 3 weeks quarantine so hopefully they aren't carrying anything, since I didn't treat them ://// I guess my method of quarantining is heat treating for ich/water changes, and observing; I should probably include a general medicine of some sort...)... If the ones I already got don't do well I may try finding a breeder. I'm not sure how to go about finding someone local and I hate ordering online... hard to find people I will trust, etc. Oh and my tank is about 79.8F every time I read it with the thermometer... pretty consistent, so they should be fine.  

I hope you eventually find success with breeding them! Maybe someday I'll be able to order some from you.   If the ones I have spawn I may try to raise a few batches of eggs if I have the time. It seems very difficult, though.


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