# One Platy not doing too well



## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

I had three Platties in my daughter's tank which I took out about a week and a half ago because of an ammonia spike after I thought it was cycled....could not hold the load. Long story. I put them in the 55 gallon tank and they all looked great. The one that is not looking good now was the one that looked like he was under the weather in the other tank. That is what made me move on it quick and get them out of there and put them in the 55 gallon even though it was not cycled yet. He seemed to perk up a lot when I got him in the other tank. Anyway, a few days ago, he had gotten a little worse and does not come out and play or come out to look for food. At least before he would stay up in the top corner but then would come out and play once in awhile and eat. He no longers does that. He may swim a bit but not much. When I read one of the poster's thread on here regarding losing their firemouth and explained that it may have been IP and explained the symptoms, I am thinking that may be what this platy has. He is just listless, stays at the top, sleeps at the bottom at night and then goes back up to the top when I turn the light on, has stringy poo, etc. There is nothing visiably noticeable on him in the way of outside parasites, etc. Is there anything I can do for him? It has been awhile since I have dealt with a sick fish. I do not yet have a hospital tank, only the 14 gallon that is still cycling. The water conditions in the 55 gallon is are still good. I just feel bad that he is sick and I am not doing anything for him. 

I wish it was more definite on what it is he has. He may have weakened from all the stress....shipment to the pet store, then his move here, dealing with ammonia (he was the only one showing any real signs of stress from he ammonia) and then put in another tank. All this can really weaken a fish and make them vulnerable to get diseased. 

Thanks for any advise. I am going to have to get a stand by tank for patients. 

P.S. I noticed that the alpha male seems concerned for him. I know that sounds weird but he will go over to him and not pick on him but just goes over/up to him as if to check on him as if he knows there is something wrong. He will then scat the other platy away if it comes near. He will hang out with him for a bit. The funny thing is, the sick fish is not the Alpha fish but he seems to defend his sick spot even towards the alpha Platy.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

What other fish are in the 55 gallon? Are there live plants in the tank? What is the current water temp?

Once I have this info I can suggest something that may help him.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

bettababy said:


> What other fish are in the 55 gallon? Are there live plants in the tank? What is the current water temp?
> 
> Thanks for the response. Once I have this info I can suggest something that may help him.


I have 3 small Phantom Tetras and 3 Platties. I did not plan to have them in this tank, but had to get them in there when my daughter's new tank fooled me a bit with the cycling......long story. I do not have the heart to put them back in the small tank once it is done cycling which will be really soon....waiting for the .2 Nitrites to drop to zero. I think the Tetras are happier in the bigger tank. If I put any back, it would be the Platties. They seemed happy enough in the 14 gallon but they are poopers. 

Anyway, the water temp is 78. He comes out to swim a bit but very little and I have not seen him eat in awhile. I know enough to know for sure there is something wrong with him....some sickness. I feel bad that I am not doing anything for him. He is not picked on. It has been awhile since I have dealt with sick fish. I do remember certain deseases but it has been awhile. I definitely want to get a hospital tank for future use but not sure if it is best to always have it cycled or just have it to set it up when a fish is sick. I would not want ammonia to be a problem in a sick tank that is not established. Is there any trick to this. I have some ideas, but what do most of you do with a hospital tank? I vaguely remember what i used to do. I do believe that I did medicate the whole tank for some things but remember times when I took the fish out and put it into a hospital tank. 

Thanks again.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

P.S. I only have two live plants in there....waiting for my proper lighting. I do have several fake plants, but know that does not matter.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

P.S. again. My concern is that this is going to be my main fish tank, and I sure hope he does not contaminate it with some desease before I even get started with my main fish in there. :-? The other fish seem fine so far.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I was thinking along the lines of salt, but I wouldn't use salt with those tetras in there. This is a situation where a hospital tank would be a big plus. 

When I am in need of a quarantine/hospital tank I work with the tank water the fish is coming from. I do a water change on the main tank and use that water to fill the QT tank. I add a filter with media from the main tank, and sometimes a handful or 2 of gravel. I make sure the heater is on and set right from the beginning so temp doesn't fluctuate too much, and then I add whatever artificial decor I need to avoid added stress of the fish. This process takes all of about a half hr on average to set up, and once the temp is proper the fish can go directly from main tank to QT tank without acclimation. 

An easy way to set the heater for the QT tank is to put it into the main tank and watch the light go on/off. When you get to the point where the light just turns off, you are at the same temp as the water. Once set you can unplug and move it to the QT tank and just plug it back in. If the light goes on simply wait it out for a short time until it goes off, meaning the water temp will be brought to that of the main tank, without all the guess work. 

If you get the ability to move him to another tank by himself let me know and I can let you know how much salt to use. 

At this point all you can really do is keep an eye out for other symptoms and be sure the other fish are not picking on him, and add some more decor to the tank to help him avoid stress. If his condition worsens check back in here with an update. Once positive symptoms can be identified we can progress with some kind of treatment suggestions.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks so much, Dawn. That was very helpful. I did not know you responded yet. For some reason I did not get a notice in my email. 

I do remember using water from other tanks before but I don't think I used gravel and I don't remember having an extra filter...not sure what I did about that. It has been awhile. I am definitely going to get a hospital tank. Would you suggest a ten gallon over a five? A five would be best room size since I do not have any big fish right now. I would definitely get a ten for large fish. I have an extra back filter but it is not the kind where you can put media from another tank in it. It is just the kind that has the filter pads in it. My large tank has a canister and sponge filter. I can figure something out. 

He does not seem any worse but not sure how long he can last without eating. I have not really seen him eat in several days. He seemed to perk up a bit today but still not well. Poor guy. I feel sorry for him. 

Thanks again, and I will keep you posted. 

~Holly



bettababy said:


> I was thinking along the lines of salt, but I wouldn't use salt with those tetras in there. This is a situation where a hospital tank would be a big plus.
> 
> When I am in need of a quarantine/hospital tank I work with the tank water the fish is coming from. I do a water change on the main tank and use that water to fill the QT tank. I add a filter with media from the main tank, and sometimes a handful or 2 of gravel. I make sure the heater is on and set right from the beginning so temp doesn't fluctuate too much, and then I add whatever artificial decor I need to avoid added stress of the fish. This process takes all of about a half hr on average to set up, and once the temp is proper the fish can go directly from main tank to QT tank without acclimation.
> 
> ...


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I would definitely go with 10 gallon for a hospital tank, especially for something like platys. Believe it or not, a healthy adult platy can get to 3 inches in size pretty quick, and 5 gallons would be quite small to accommodate such a thing and still maintain good water quality. 

As for the hang on filter... remove the cartridge and use media from your other tank in place of the cartridge. Or you have the option of using the sponge filter from the main tank... though I prefer hang on filters for QT because its easier when it comes time to remove meds or when extra filter media may be needed to control waste levels. Once you have the platy in the QT tank, dose it with 1 tablespoon per gallon of basic aquarium salt. Do not dissolve the salt in a cup of water the way many people suggest, just add it directly to the tank water into the flow being put out from the filter. Just be sure not to pour the salt directly onto the fish.

What foods have you tried to offer him? Maybe I can help you find a better food selection that will tempt him to eat... Once in QT alone he may be more likely to eat.

Sorry I can't be of more help to you, but I hope this helps some.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Hi Dawn,

I am sorry it has taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I finally bought a 10 gallon hospital/QT the other day. I did not set it up yet though and do not yet have a heater yet or another sponge filter that I would like to use. What I thought I would do for the future is set this tank up permanently with just a few small guppies or a couple of fish in it in my daughter's room. If I need it to medicate a fish or quarantine a fish, I can transfer them out to the other tanks and use it for a hospital/quarantinel tank. This way it will always be ready to go. 

The platy died yesterday. :-? I thought he was getting a little better but apparently not. I never could actually see what it was that he had. It could have been that he got weakened from the ammonia in that other tank that was trying to cycle before I got them out of there. Maybe he ended up with some damage that he could not overcome and the other fish did not. 

The LFS owner suspected that he had damage from the ammonia that he could not overcome. Since I thought this was most likely the case, I was not too worried. However, now I am concerned that if it was a parasite, if my other fish would be in danger....my Angels especially. The other fish including the Angels seem fine. However, the Phantom Tetra's seem possibly a little off today...not sure but just look off. I really did not want these fish in this tank (Phantoms and Platies) but it ended up happening this way. Should I medicate the whole tank in case it could have parasites? I really do not want an outbreak. 

I am going to get this side 10 gallon tank set up next week. I need to cycle it, but can seed it with my other tank. I don't think the extra filter is the type that I can put the bio material in....it is just the cartridge type. I may invest in a Aqua Clear (forget the name) that has the section for bio media. 

Please let me know if you think I should medicate the whole tank for parasites, just in case there are some in there. 

Thanks. 

~Holly



bettababy said:


> I would definitely go with 10 gallon for a hospital tank, especially for something like platys. Believe it or not, a healthy adult platy can get to 3 inches in size pretty quick, and 5 gallons would be quite small to accommodate such a thing and still maintain good water quality.
> 
> As for the hang on filter... remove the cartridge and use media from your other tank in place of the cartridge. Or you have the option of using the sponge filter from the main tank... though I prefer hang on filters for QT because its easier when it comes time to remove meds or when extra filter media may be needed to control waste levels. Once you have the platy in the QT tank, dose it with 1 tablespoon per gallon of basic aquarium salt. Do not dissolve the salt in a cup of water the way many people suggest, just add it directly to the tank water into the flow being put out from the filter. Just be sure not to pour the salt directly onto the fish.
> 
> ...


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Holly, not a problem with how long in between posts. I'm sorry to hear about your platy.

As for medicating your entire tank... I still have not heard anything that convinces me there is a parasite problem going on here, or ever was. Treating with medications should always be a last resort, just like with any other animal and even with people. That would be like telling me that your child went to school one day and 1 child in the entire school had head lice... your child scratched his head after dinner so you ran out and treated him for head lice even though there was no sign of them. Those treatments are dangerous, with the fish... that is basically the same thing. Medications are toxins that kill bacteria, fungus, and parasites. Please, never medicate any fish just because it might have been exposed to something or it might have an unknown illness. 

There is also the added problem that some of your fish will not tolerate a great many of the medications out there that are being commonly dumped into aquariums these days, without any professional advice. That only means one thing... healthy fish turn into dead fish real quick. 

If any of your fish shows specific symptoms, please list them along with fresh water parameters and we can sort it all out. As for what killed your platy... without a necropsy done, there is no way to know for sure. There could have been any of hundreds of causes, or combination of causes, including just basic stress and weak genetics. 

I will keep watch over this thread for you. If you find you have an actual problem with another fish, please let me know and I'll contribute all I can to helping you. In the mean time I would suggest focusing on keeping water params in good standing, work on getting that QT tank set up as you mentioned, and keep close eye on the remaining fish for signs of a problem.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Good Morning Dawn,

Thank you for your response. 

The other two platies are for sure not looking right. These two were very happy and healthy looking when I got them and and even during the ammonia spike in that other tank and after I put them in the big tank. They were very active and just looked and acted right. Now, this is not the case. They are acting pretty much like the other one did when I first noticed him under the weather -- spending too much time under things at the bottom of the tank. One of them has even gone to the top right corner to hang out for a bit.....not gasping but just slightly listless. There is no stringy white poop yet like the other one had, and they are both eating since last night....have not fed them yet this morning. Although, the one did not go for the food much in last night's feeding. The one that is Alpha and normally extremely peppy did eat but I can tell he is different. I am usually very intuitive and there is definitely a change and a problem. There are no obvioius visible outward signs just like the other one, but this morning I did notice a slight nic or mark (very slight) on the surface of one gill.....kinda greyish tone. It is not the shape of a worm though. It is flat. Also, even though his color is basically good...not pale...he inparticular may look a little dull on the top head part and back a little. Kind of hard to explain. I cannot see any distinct powdery like residue but something just does not look right. They were very goodlooking platies. They have not gotten to the clamped fin stage yet. 

The water is fine. I just tested it the other day. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites (liquid tube testers). I am out of my strips for the pH and nitrates, but I know those would be fine at this point. I just did a water change on Saturday evening and the tank is fairly new. The Angels are doing fine and the Tetras seem ok. They always act a little off to me though. You know how they kind flit around and hang in one place sometimes. I think they like less light. When I turn the lights off they swim around more. I read that Phantom Tetras tend to like darker substrate and just a darker environment altogether. My substrate is tan (natural with the reddish brown flourite underneath). 

Also, I notice that the platies are sometimes spooking now and they never used to. I read that some diseases can cause this. They are NOT exactly darting around frantically like fish can do with flukes but just seem to spook and dart away like they are just slightly nutty. I just know something is wrong and I think it is some sort of parasite. Hanging low at the bottom this frequently is not normal for these guys. I did some studying online. Since the other one died with color and had stringy poo and clamped fins and no outward visiable sign, I am thinking it was internal parasites. They came from the same place and looked to be from the same batch. Who knows they could have been carrying these IP and it was just a matter of time for them to show signs of it. 

I ordered *Metronidazole *and a medicated food for internal parasites, just in case I need to use it. I would only use the Metronidazole in the hospital tank unless you advise me to use it in the main tank as well. I read where others had fish with similiar symptoms and it did do the trick. Once I get this tank set up, should i get salt a try first along with the medicated food? I was thinking that maybe I should give the other fish the medicated food as well just in case they have picked these IP up and they could also run into trouble in a matter of time. I remember my one Angel sucking up one of that other sick fishes stringy poo, but of course he spit it out. 

I think that is all I can really let you know. What should I do? I did order a heater along with the medicine and it is coming from Oregon. I just ordered it on Saturday so they will probably send it today. I will either get it tomorrow or Wednesday. I hate to have to wait like this. The heaters were way to expensive in the stores here. I looked for the IP medicated food the other day but it did not look like Petsmart had it. We only have one other LFS that is not a big chain store, but not sure if she would have it and she is closed on Monday and Tuesday. I could call Petco. Petsmart has it online though. They do not have the Seachem (or whatever it is called) brand of Metronidazole which is supposed to be the best kind. I really do not want to wait. I feel like I should get those platies out of there but I do not have the heater yet. 

Please let me know if I am on the right track. Poor platies.

~Holly




bettababy said:


> Holly, not a problem with how long in between posts. I'm sorry to hear about your platy.
> 
> As for medicating your entire tank... I still have not heard anything that convinces me there is a parasite problem going on here, or ever was. Treating with medications should always be a last resort, just like with any other animal and even with people. That would be like telling me that your child went to school one day and 1 child in the entire school had head lice... your child scratched his head after dinner so you ran out and treated him for head lice even though there was no sign of them. Those treatments are dangerous, with the fish... that is basically the same thing. Medications are toxins that kill bacteria, fungus, and parasites. Please, never medicate any fish just because it might have been exposed to something or it might have an unknown illness.
> 
> ...


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

P.S. The one platy looks slightly thinner in the mid-section. Of course he is not the Alpha one that gets the most food but he always ate well and certainly enough. I will see if he eats this morning. He is the one last night that seemed not to go out of his way to get the food.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Holly,
After reading your last post I do agree something is going on with your platys, but I am still hearing no real indicators of internal parasites. I would be more tempted to lean towards bacterial infection than internal parasites... but again, I can see nothing specific at this time to medicate for. 

I'm not sure if you're aware, but not all medications are safe to mix/use together. I don't know what "other" medication you are intending to use for the food, but metronidazole can be used to treat food as well as tank water. Please know that if you proceed with metronidazole treatments at this time, it is against my advice. 
Can you post any photos of the sick fish? I also would not be using medications in a tank containing sensitive tetras (which includes phantoms) or angels, especially if those fish appear healthy. You may dose the tank with all of the good intentions of a concerned fish mom, but the end result could be disasterous. 

If I were to suggest a medication based on the symptoms you have described, it would be Fungus Eliminator in the QT tank only, and only for the platys. If you should decide to do this... please do not salt the water. The Fungus Eliminator has a fair amount of salt in it already. Too much salt is not good. The Fungus Eliminator is not safe for those tetras, so do not dose the main tank.

Good luck to you.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Hi Dawn,

Thank you for your input. I wanted to let you know that a day or two after you posted this, they all of a sudden appeared competely normal. I hate being stumped on things like this. The only thing I can think is that they started to act weird after that other one died and that was right around the time that I changed the lighting. I don't think it had anything to do with adding the Angelfish because they acted fine with them for several days. They never did quit eating but they sure acted strange....hovering at the bottom and hiding under the sponge filter....a slight gap between the gravel and filter. They never did breath heavy but when they would stay in one spot their little side fins would fan fast. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing. I think from what I remember, when a fish is really ill and sick, their side fins tend to slow way down, like they don't have the energy to move them. They are out and about now and just look fine. I hope there is not an actual problem that may affect them on and off. Even though you did not think that the medicine I ordered would have been the right one if they were sick, I guess it never hurts to have medicine on hand for the future. Their symptoms did not seem like a fungus to me though but the way they acted did appear like it could be either bacterial or parasites but nothing really showing on the outside that was definite. I think the change in lighting gave me the ability to see skin texture that may have looked to change on top but really is nothing. There is a small nick on the surface of his one gill, but I think he just nicked himself. Not a bloody nick, but just a surface nick. 

I will keep an eye on them. I am sure glad all seems ok. I really hate dealing with sick fish. That is the only thing about this hobby I do not like....when they eventually get sick and die. I am dreading the day that my Angels get old and die. I really have a hard time seeing the really intelligent fish that interact with me get sick. I don't like to see anything sick though. 

Thanks again for your valued help. 

~Holly





bettababy said:


> Holly,
> After reading your last post I do agree something is going on with your platys, but I am still hearing no real indicators of internal parasites. I would be more tempted to lean towards bacterial infection than internal parasites... but again, I can see nothing specific at this time to medicate for.
> 
> I'm not sure if you're aware, but not all medications are safe to mix/use together. I don't know what "other" medication you are intending to use for the food, but metronidazole can be used to treat food as well as tank water. Please know that if you proceed with metronidazole treatments at this time, it is against my advice.
> ...


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