# Thinking of starting SW



## bigehugedome

Hello All,

I was gifted a double decker stand with a 25gallon and 20 High tank. I wanted to know if this would be an OK to start a SW tank for a newbie. I have freshwater but im trying to decide what I want to do with these tanks. I cannot fit anything bigger for at least two years, so this is all I have to work with.

I know i would need:
Filter, Heater, hood, etc normal stuff
Protein skimmer
ro/di unit
live Sand/ live rock
API master SW test kit and a refractometer.

FOWLR would be my start, adding easy coral if possible at some point. Also love shrimp/ crabs. Is this possible, and what would be my possible stock list. If i like it and decide to go with SW then ill start picking your brain on equipment. 

Thanks.


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## MiamiLeos

Awesome gift! I'm just starting with SW as well. If I was fortunate enough to have two tanks right next to each other I would definitely make them polar opposites. As in have one with Carribean sea life and the other with Pacific life, or one with carnivorous fish and the other with peaceful, one with corals, one with anemonies... etc etc. That would be really neat imo


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## Reefing Madness

#1-Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhikers on Live Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way you go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.
#2-Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter) Which is really not necessary.
#3-Multiple Power heads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph power heads.
#4-Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume. Unless your tank is under 30g, in which case you can do 10% water changes a week to rid the system of detrius. But, you'll have to watch the water parameters close, if things go haywire, you'll have to do more water changes.
#5-Saltwater Test Kits. Reef Test Kit. Test for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.
#6-Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish.
#7-Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one
#8-Rubber kitchen gloves
#9-Fish net
#10-Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets
#11-Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best
.#12-Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock
.#13-Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.
#14-Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.
#15-Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank
#16-Heater rated for your size tank.
#17-Saltwater Mix. Marine Salt. Instant Ocean is the cheap Salt that beginners and Advanced use alike.
#18-Saltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurate. There is also a Digital Meter that is way advanced if you have the cash.
#19-Aquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, or GFO and such)
#20-Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed coral. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.

Nano Fish
Blennies: Blenny Fish Species Including Bicolor, Striped and other Blennies
Clownfish for Sale: Clownfish Species for the Home Aquarium
Dartfish
Gobies for Sale: Goby Fish Species Including Shrimp Gobies
Jawfish
Chromis for Sale: Blue and Green Chromis and other Reef Species

Beginner Invertebrates: Invertebrates Suitable for Beginners in Saltwater Aquariums
Saltwater Crabs: Hermit Crab Species for Saltwater Tanks
Aquarium Snails: Sea Snail Species and Aquatic Saltwater Snails
Sea Urchins: Live Red, Black and Pencil Sea Urchin Species
Aquarium Shrimp: Cleaner Shrimp Pistol and Coral Banded Shrimp


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## bigehugedome

Thanks reefing. Ill go over what you provided over the weekend, then maybe by monday we can start talking stock and equipment. 

I know it would depend on species, but could you maybe share an example of a stock for this size and for a new person. I would just like an idea of what I can expect as i look these profiles over.


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## MiamiLeos

If you go to liveaquaria.com they have a beginners fish section. In the profiles of each fish it also tells you their level of difficulty and what size tank they need. It has helped me find fish that I would like once my tank is cycled


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> If you go to liveaquaria.com they have a beginners fish section. In the profiles of each fish it also tells you their level of difficulty and what size tank they need. It has helped me find fish that I would like once my tank is cycled


 Click on any of those links I listed. It will take you just where you were saying.:-D


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## MiamiLeos

Ahahahaha I should know to leave it to the pro's! lol


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## jdiaz

Go with it. Get a good light fixture too, even if it will only be a FOWLR tank the light will be good for a start on your coralline algae.


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## bigehugedome

OK so I’m going to get some ideas:

1: I’m assuming, since the total is going to be about 45 gallons including sump, I would need enough rock for 45 gallons. So minimum 50 pounds. Live rock is about $4/pound at my LFS. Any good online sites for dry rock?
2. I’ll get to this later.
3. I would like some easy corals at some point. So I will say 20x. By water volume, I’m still assuming it’s the total of 45 gallons. Not sure what a good brand is. But let’s say I use two of these (http://www.thatpetplace.com/koralia-evolution-water-pump-550-gph-4w?sc=10&category=2964).
4. Understood I need a skimmer rated for 100gallons. Any good brands. They look expensive J but I know that going in.
7. I have a python. I use it for FW so I’m assuming I won’t want to move it between FW and SW. So if I don’t need it, then that’s better.
11. Good brands? Or are they all pretty accurate?
14. This will have to come down the line. Not sure where in my apartment I can hook this up. Again, any good brands?
16. What watt is suggested given I’ll have a sump.
18. Will defiantly get a refract meter, but not sure if it will be digital.
20. Live sand for me, 2-3” sounds nice.


On stocking, this is what I like. Not sure what I can do specificity.
Clown fish.
Catalina Goby
Firefish
Striped Blenny
Tail Spot Blenny
Horseface Blenny
Clown Goby
Highfin Red Banded Goby
Jawfish
Black axil chromies
Agile Chromis

Banded Coral Shrimp
Blood red fire shrimp
Hermit crabs only
Pretty much like all snails
I like urchins, but not set on a specific one
I really like brittle stars

Now onto tank setup. I believe the tank is an eclipse 25 setup. This has the built in filter in the hood. I cannot find any good pics on line. Ill take a closer look tomorrow. I do know it is two 18” t8’s. Will this work? I need to have both the tank and sump covered so my cats don’t go fishing. They will do so if its open.

Could you point me in the correct direction for installing the sump? I figure I need to do some drilling J


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## Tazman

With regards to getting an RO/DI unit. I have a small unit exactly like this here, it does 50gpd and can easily be removed and stored in a cupboard until needed.* Note* though it did not come with the DI unit which I purchased from the same vendor. It hooks up easily with included connectors to almost any faucet / tap.

Sumps - you can find a wealth of information here 

Python - I use mine for both fresh and saltwater. I usually remove the saltwater first, dont use it to refill though as I have a separate pump for that, then I flush it out by doing the water change in the freshwater tank. I do 60% water changes in a 75g freshwater tank, so it has plenty of water to flush any remaining salt residue out.

Rocks - http://www.marcorocks.com/ offer dead dry rock which over time would become live, you would only need a few lbs of actual live rock to start cycling the tank and begin the process of the dead rock becoming live.

Hope it helps.


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## bigehugedome

Tazman said:


> With regards to getting an RO/DI unit. I have a small unit exactly like this here, it does 50gpd and can easily be removed and stored in a cupboard until needed.* Note* though it did not come with the DI unit which I purchased from the same vendor.
> 
> Sumps - you can find a wealth of information here
> 
> Python - I use mine for both fresh and saltwater. I usually remove the saltwater first, dont use it to refill though as I have a separate pump for that, then I flush it out by doing the water change in the freshwater tank. I do 60% water changes in a 75g freshwater tank, so it has plenty of water to flush any remaining salt residue out.
> 
> Hope it helps.


On the RO/DI my buddy down the street has a unit. Im sure he will let me grab some water from him. 

Sumps - Before i begin this, i want to have everything laid out from start to finish. Mainly so i can allocate money in a way that makes sense. I dont want to start buying part by part, and not be able to set up until next year. So i need to factor every piece of this project into a plan. Reefing Madness has a great starting list but im going to have to know what items i need for a sump, lights etc before I move forward. Ill look that site over and come back when i can propose my own plan, then you guys can help me make sure im doing it the right way.

I would like to use my python to refill as well (well i guess i wont for salt if I get RO/DI) but i assume if i go your way, then salt residue should be pretty much flushed out as i remove FW, then i should not have an issue adding FW.

Thanks everyone. Im excited to get started. Im going to ask alot of questions. But like I said, money is limited, so I want to do everything as best as I can. I need to know how and when I can spend my money. I want to make sure I can afford to finish the whole project in a reasonable amount of time before I buy anything else, but I dont want to buy junk items and create issues down the line.


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## bigehugedome

Oh, and there is a small bright pink fish that my GF really likes. Its very common, i think even petco has them. I just forget the name, and can't seem to find it online anywhere. If possible, i would like to consider that when deciding stock. Ill keep looking online.


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## Tazman

Check out Anthias, I suspect it might be one of them 

The thing with using a python to refill the saltwater is you would need a fairly powerful pump to attach to the hose and then into the pale you will use to mix the saltwater. Given the length of the hose, it may make it more difficult.

A ball park figure for all the equipment assuming you have the tanks (main and sump) is going to be around a $1000 if you buy all new equipment, the skimmer being one of the most expensive if not the most expensive. DO not skimp on the skimmer, you will seriously regret it down the line.


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## onefish2fish

look into glass-holes.com for an over flow kit. next check out marco rock for dry rock. hydor is a good company for powerheads. the refractometer doesnt need to be digital, check ebay. it also wouldnt hurt to search your area for a local reefing club.

skip the catalina goby as the require cooler water for long term survival. unfortunately i would also skip all the anthias as they are pretty active fish requiring a larger tank.

the pink fish was prob. a pseudo chromis


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## Reefing Madness

Volusion Demo Store
New Circulating WaveMaker Aquarium Powerhead Pump 800gph Suction Cup Mount | eBay
Two 290gph Powerhead/Pump For Aquarium Reef Fish Coral | eBay
NEW RHS-10ATC 0-10% Salinity Refractometer Salt Water Aquarium | eBay

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+21+47&pcatid=47
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+20+1128&pcatid=1128
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+38+170&pcatid=170


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> Volusion Demo Store
> New Circulating WaveMaker Aquarium Powerhead Pump 800gph Suction Cup Mount | eBay
> Two 290gph Powerhead/Pump For Aquarium Reef Fish Coral | eBay
> NEW RHS-10ATC 0-10% Salinity Refractometer Salt Water Aquarium | eBay
> 
> Saltwater Aquarium Fish for Marine Aquariums: Black Cap Basslet
> Saltwater Aquarium Fish for Marine Aquariums: Bartlett's Anthias
> Saltwater Aquarium Fish for Marine Aquariums: Purple Dottyback


 
Im going to say the fish she likes is a purple dotty back.


From Volusion, im assuming the $80 skimmer is what i would be looking at? It those prices i would get the next one up in hopes to move it to a bigger tank in the future, but then again, that would not be for at least two years.
And i would order all three powerheads?

The 50 pound box of Key Largo rock from Marco Rocks looks good to me.

I get the idea of sumps, but not exactly sure what it is ill need, and what i need to do to install and build it.

Im now taking noise into consideration as well, as this is in my office/ guest bedroom, and the stand is a double decker open metal stand.


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## Reefing Madness

As for the powerheads, no, you would just need to have a starting flow rate of 200gph. So one big powerhead or 2 at 100gph each.
$80 Skimmer would do ya, bigger the better. Noise is not a huge thing with a sump, I just get the water trickle noise coming from the outlets when my sump is alittle low. But other than that, nil for noise.
And this Link, originally post by Taz, is really a good read on Sumps.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> As for the powerheads, no, you would just need to have a starting flow rate of 200gph. So one big powerhead or 2 at 100gph each.
> $80 Skimmer would do ya, bigger the better. Noise is not a huge thing with a sump, I just get the water trickle noise coming from the outlets when my sump is alittle low. But other than that, nil for noise.
> And this Link, originally post by Taz, is really a good read on Sumps.
> Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums


 
OK im going to start building a list of equipment/prices. Ill also go over that site again, and try to figure out what is necessary for a sump, and post here and you guys can tell me what im doing wrong:lol:.

As far as hoods/lighting go, this is my hood: 

Eclipse 2 Hood | ThatPetPlace.com

Im assuming the built in filter is not necessary. But since i have this hood id like to use it. Can i get by with the dual t-8 with some easy corals? What bulbs are necessary? Then I can upgrade to t5HO or whatever is reccomended down the line. I have not really looked into corals, i would just want something easy that will work with the t-8s for now.

And what type of sand is reccomended. Is live packaged ok? Any online vendors with something nicer? 

Hopefully getting my security deposit back soon, so that will allow me to start buying. Thats why i would like to plan everything out now.:lol:


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## bigehugedome

So im understanding sumps. I hope to start planning the layout and deciding on the materials I need this weekend. Im just a little confused on the overflow. Now, im assuming i dont need any drilling if im to use a hob overflow. Is this correct?

I think im seeing downsides to hob overflow. For one, i need to make sure it can work with my hood. Like I said, I cant have an open top or cats will be swimming:roll:. It looks like glass-holes has lids for the overflow so thats good. Second, the tank needs to be further out from the wall, which is whatever.

I have not found a way to calculate what size overflow and return pump i need. Could you guys point me in the right direction?


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## Reefing Madness

DIY Overflow Using Only PVC Pipe (DIY OVERFLOW PROJECTS)
1"pvc will usually accomadate 600gph, so you'll need a pump that will return up to that after you consider head loss.
Quiet One 3000- 540gph at 5' head.
Lifegard Aquatics


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> DIY Overflow Using Only PVC Pipe (DIY OVERFLOW PROJECTS)
> 1"pvc will usually accomadate 600gph, so you'll need a pump that will return up to that after you consider head loss.
> Quiet One 3000- 540gph at 5' head.
> Lifegard Aquatics


 
You are like magic.

So, when the water level lowers past the red tube the siphon will break and i will not flood as long as I calculate the max fill level in my sump? Is this correct? Im very concerned with flooding, and i dont always trust my DIY skills


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## Reefing Madness

No, not quite. Once the water goes lower than your intake pipe. Which should onle be an inch or so under water. ( The blue pipe in the tank ) When the water goes lower than this piece, the syphon is lost, thats why you don't want it going very low in the water. Once the syphon is lost, the water will remain in the big U tube on the back of your rig. You should attach a power head to the top air line coming from the overflow, leave the powerhead in the sump, I use an Aqualifter on my overflow, when power is lost the syphon will break. When the power comes on you want the powerhead to suck out the air in the line there, this will restart the syphon.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-Lifter...750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aab106eae


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> No, not quite. Once the water goes lower than your intake pipe. Which should onle be an inch or so under water. ( The blue pipe in the tank ) When the water goes lower than this piece, the syphon is lost, thats why you don't want it going very low in the water. Once the syphon is lost, the water will remain in the big U tube on the back of your rig. You should attach a power head to the top air line coming from the overflow, leave the powerhead in the sump, I use an Aqualifter on my overflow, when power is lost the syphon will break. When the power comes on you want the powerhead to suck out the air in the line there, this will restart the syphon.
> Aqua Lifter, Aqualifter Pump by Tom AW-20 Drip/Dose | eBay


 
OK so this may be stupid, but is it a powerhead or a pump, or same thing lol? You said attatch a powerhed and leave it in the sump, but what you linked looks to me like it does not sit in water. But maybe im just not understanding how it works.

I do understand the rest of the overflow setup. Thanks


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## bigehugedome

bigehugedome said:


> OK so this may be stupid, but is it a powerhead or a pump, or same thing lol? You said attatch a powerhed and leave it in the sump, but what you linked looks to me like it does not sit in water. But maybe im just not understanding how it works.
> 
> I do understand the rest of the overflow setup. Thanks


 
Ahhh NVM, I found a video. So the pump is always attatched and on, water from the overflow will go through the pump and into the sump. That way, when the power goes out, and comes back on the sump pump is going to start pumping into the DT and when the water in the DT reaches the blue PVC the pump will start the syphon. If i did not have this pump then the sump would continue to pump water into the DT and it would overflow.

Am i on the right track now??

Would a battery backup be a nice investment? Usually if im to lose power its only a quick surge (its not that common but has happened) so a UPS will keep my equipment running possibly untill the power is back on.


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## Reefing Madness

bigehugedome said:


> Ahhh NVM, I found a video. So the pump is always attatched and on, water from the overflow will go through the pump and into the sump. That way, when the power goes out, and comes back on the sump pump is going to start pumping into the DT and when the water in the DT reaches the blue PVC the pump will start the syphon. If i did not have this pump then the sump would continue to pump water into the DT and it would overflow.
> 
> Am i on the right track now??
> 
> Would a battery backup be a nice investment? Usually if im to lose power its only a quick surge (its not that common but has happened) so a UPS will keep my equipment running possibly untill the power is back on.


You've got it now. BAttery back ups are cool things to have, but only for airating the tank.


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## bigehugedome

I'm getting so excited to start this!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigehugedome

Sorry if Im being a pain:-D, i just dont want to move real fast. I want to plan every detail out so I have no $$$$ suprises (and will have better luck with the tank!)

This is my ongoing list of supplies. It is by no means the final list. Im OK with the hardware as stated by reefing, as Long as it works for what i need it. I do have a few questions below. My goal is to get both tanks cleaned up and at my apartment, have the sump chambers planned out, have a full equipment list planned out, and a stock list planned out this weekend. Then im going to start by building the over flow and sump. Making sure It all works, then ill start ordering everything else.

I thank everyone again for all their help!



Protein Skimmer (if sump permits, I would like to buy the bigger one) - $80 or $130 http://znnea.rmuvx.servertrust.com/default.asp

Powerhead (I wanna do 20x because I do plan on keeping some kind of coral, whatever works in my tank. I also figure having two smaller is better than one larger, so if one fails ill at least have some flow. Until I can replace. Make sense?) - $32 - Two 290gph Powerhead/Pump For Aquarium Reef Fish Coral | eBay


Refractometer – 27 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-RHS-10ATC-0-10-Salinity-Refractometer-Salt-Water-Aquarium-/280922112077?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416843404d&afsrc=1


Sump return Pump - $70 [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-One-Aquarium-Pump-3000/dp/B000256E6W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346992554&sr=8-1&keywords=quiet+one+3000"]http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-One-Aquarium-Pump-3000/dp/B000256E6W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346992554&sr=8-1&keywords=quiet+one+3000[/ame]


DIY Overflow - $20 http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-overflow/120.asp


Overflow Pump $20 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-Lifter-Aqualifter-Pump-by-Tom-AW-20-Drip-Dose-NIB-/320697560750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aab106eae&afsrc=1


Test Kits – Looks like it will be around $50 for everything Total. Is Liquid API OK or are there better brands.


Heater- I have 3 heaters, just need to confirm Watts and test them all out.


Lights - Can you suggest something for my dual t-8. I would like to start with that now as I assume it will be OK for the fish and maybe some coral. I can always upgrade it when I get more into coral and all. 


Rock – So Do I need 50 pounds, or 25? Since the DT is 25gal and the sump is 20, how much is the “minimum” i need. I will buy that minimum in dry and get a few pounds of live to seed.


Sand – All live sand? Prepackaged or something better like from an online vendor?


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## Reefing Madness

Just 25lbs LR is what you would need to start for a FOWLR.
Live Sand or all dead substrate, all up to you.
I use API Test kits. There are better, and much more expensive ones out there. Salifert. Hanna.
Lights at T-8, 10-12k lamps. One Actinic one white.
MARINE-GLO ACTINIC AQUARIUM SALTWATER BULB T8 30W 36" | eBay
My bad, I don't know how long your fixture is.


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> Just 25lbs LR is what you would need to start for a FOWLR.
> Live Sand or all dead substrate, all up to you.
> I use API Test kits. There are better, and much more expensive ones out there. Salifert. Hanna.
> Lights at T-8, 10-12k lamps. One Actinic one white.
> MARINE-GLO ACTINIC AQUARIUM SALTWATER BULB T8 30W 36" | eBay
> My bad, I don't know how long your fixture is.


Ocean Sun Fluorescent T-8 Lamp - 10,000k - 15W - 18 in. | ThatPetPlace.com
Coral Sun 420nm T8 Actinic Fluorescent Lamp - 18 in. | ThatPetPlace.com

Even with the length difference these prices are alot cheaper then what you linked. Are they lesser quality or the wrong Bulbs?


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## bigehugedome

Bleh, im having such a hard time trying to plan this sump. Im just not good with this kinda stuff. This is what I have so far. Top View










The skimmer dimensions are 4.25" L x 7" W x 17" H .

Im not sure if I can put a seperate intake chamber that way as i donno how the skimmer would fit.

I also dont know how tall the baffles should be. I assume like 13 inches? 

Side View:










Any of this making sense? Am i on the right track? Please help 

Note : drawings not to scale


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## MiamiLeos

Looks good! I wanna play! Looked like too much fun not to make one of my own sump plans lol


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## wake49

Looks good you two!


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## Tazman

Add some Culpera as well in the sump along with the Chaeto, more macro algae, more they will absorb the excess nitrates

:thumbsup: on the sump design, one thing I would consider doing though is split the return line to the fuge and not the intake line. That way you are returning "cleaned" water back into the sump and not having dirty water coming in from the overflow.

I recently removed my filter sock from my sump as I found it to be getting too dirty for my liking and cleaning it way too often. I did have some issues in my tank and as they seem to be sorted I will perhaps return it. Keep an eye on it and dont allow it to become to dirty.


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## bigehugedome

Tazman said:


> Add some Culpera as well in the sump along with the Chaeto, more macro algae, more they will absorb the excess nitrates
> 
> :thumbsup: on the sump design, one thing I would consider doing though is split the return line to the fuge and not the intake line. That way you are returning "cleaned" water back into the sump and not having dirty water coming in from the overflow.
> 
> I recently removed my filter sock from my sump as I found it to be getting too dirty for my liking and cleaning it way too often. I did have some issues in my tank and as they seem to be sorted I will perhaps return it. Keep an eye on it and dont allow it to become to dirty.


 
So im not 100% sure i follow. Are you pretty much saying do what MiamiLeos did? That design was a little to crazy for me at first, I was sure my design was all wrong, but please help me make adjustments! :-D

Thanks everyone!


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## MiamiLeos

I'm only doing this design because the fuge is really important to me. I want to produce a lot of pods and macro algae because eventually I would like to have a manderin in the tank and they need the pods. Lots of people do the sump like your lay out! Only reason I have mine the way it is is because I dont want "skimmed" water going in/out of the fuge, making it harder to grow pods and algae.


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## bigehugedome

MiamiLeos said:


> I'm only doing this design because the fuge is really important to me. I want to produce a lot of pods and macro algae because eventually I would like to have a manderin in the tank and they need the pods. Lots of people do the sump like your lay out! Only reason I have mine the way it is is because I dont want "skimmed" water going in/out of the fuge, making it harder to grow pods and algae.


 
OK that makes sense, thanks. If that way is OK for me to, or if Taz can elaborate a bit, ill change plans, but my mind could only start with the simple option.

How are you making your sump. Im reading all sorts of different things im creating my own confusion. Im going to be using a glass tank. So it seems like the best thing to do is use glass baffles, as its hard to bond acrylic to glass. There is also a concern with acrylic expanding and breaking the glass.

Does lowes or Home depot cut glass. What thickness will i need? and do the baffles in the sump need teeth?


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## MiamiLeos

I'm doing the same thing, using a glass aquarium. I wish home depot cut glass but they dont. Have to find like a window or glass cutting place. I've been told that 1/4 inch glass is what is normally used. 1/8 inch is too brittle. Instead of teeth on the top baffle of my fuge, I plan to just put some egg crate to keep the snails and what not in. Same principal.


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## onefish2fish

i do not suggest keeping snails in your sump. it is possible but personally i had to move all my livestock into my refuge once including my snails, after moving things back up to my display ive missed a few snails down there and have since burned out two skimmer pumps due to snail shells getting stuck in the pump intake.

i also strongly suggest on that sump design to skip on adding live rock rubble and keeping it in the display as it can create an issue collecting debris and allowing it to break down into nutrients ( similiar to bio balls ) in the slower flowing area of a refugium. maybe keep 1-3 baseball sized rocks in there and rotate 1 up to the display once a week. even doing this can pose an issue of trapping debris in the refugium though so keep an eye out. the rest of the sump looks good.


----------



## MiamiLeos

Thanks! Only reason I was gonna put LR down there was 1)for the pods, and 2)because I heard it helped cut down on micro bubbles if you put them by the pipes


----------



## MiamiLeos

Without LR, what's another way to get pods from the fuge to the DT?


----------



## bigehugedome

onefish2fish said:


> i do not suggest keeping snails in your sump. it is possible but personally i had to move all my livestock into my refuge once including my snails, after moving things back up to my display ive missed a few snails down there and have since burned out two skimmer pumps due to snail shells getting stuck in the pump intake.
> 
> i also strongly suggest on that sump design to skip on adding live rock rubble and keeping it in the display as it can create an issue collecting debris and allowing it to break down into nutrients ( similiar to bio balls ) in the slower flowing area of a refugium. maybe keep 1-3 baseball sized rocks in there and rotate 1 up to the display once a week. even doing this can pose an issue of trapping debris in the refugium though so keep an eye out. the rest of the sump looks good.


 
So best/no fuss way of maintaining the sump is skimmer, fuge with sand only and macro algea, and return. Any additions may need more maintainance and have extra consequences?

For my baffles, they dont have to have teeth, correct? Any changes you would propose on my design?


----------



## onefish2fish

they will live in the chaeto and be in your display as it is. letting the tank mature before fish will help get your pod population strong but just about any fish will see a pod as a snack making their numbers decrease as the fish increase.


----------



## onefish2fish

bigehugedome said:


> So best/no fuss way of maintaining the sump is skimmer, fuge with sand only and macro algea, and return. Any additions may need more maintainance and have extra consequences?
> 
> For my baffles, they dont have to have teeth, correct? Any changes you would propose on my design?


that sounds perfect to me, maybe short of carbon and phosban reactors also in your sump, along with your heaters ofcourse.

no teeth are needed on the baffles.


----------



## bigehugedome

bigehugedome said:


> Bleh, im having such a hard time trying to plan this sump. Im just not good with this kinda stuff. This is what I have so far. Top View
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The skimmer dimensions are 4.25" L x 7" W x 17" H .
> 
> Im not sure if I can put a seperate intake chamber that way as i donno how the skimmer would fit.
> 
> I also dont know how tall the baffles should be. I assume like 13 inches?
> 
> Side View:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any of this making sense? Am i on the right track? Please help
> 
> Note : drawings not to scale


OK so Since is was a little confusing (at least for me) because we were talking about two diffrent sump setups. What is suggested I switch/change (if anything) before I go ahead with this build. Ill be using 1/4 inch glass and aquarium safe silicone. Here are my questions:

For the intake, I saw the 4x4inch box on melevsreef and some other sites/videos. What is the best setup for the intake? Should it flow directly into the skimmer chamber or Should it flow into that 4x4 box and overflow into the skimmer chamber (it should not be as tall as it is in my pic). What is needed on it? On the DIY overflow ill use, im supposed to use a PVC barb to connect a hose to go into the sump, however they did not have PVC, only brass, so thats no good. I assume I can go straight into the intake via PVC.

Skimmer chamber is OK. Just needs to fit the skimmer. If the water at 13 inches deep is then I may need to raise the skimmer Up with something.

Fuge is OK. Just sand (deep sand bed? 6-8 inches?) and algea, then into the return, where my heaters will be?

Anything I should change, or consider doing differently? Are my measurements OK for the chambers? Both Chamber width and baffle height?

I painted the back of the DT black and have just about everything for the overflow. Im ready to finialize this sump plan and get the glass ordered!


----------



## wake49

MiamiLeos said:


> Thanks! Only reason I was gonna put LR down there was 1)for the pods, and 2)because I heard it helped cut down on micro bubbles if you put them by the pipes


This is true. I always kept a couple of large pieces of LR in my sump for a hiding place for pods so I could switch it to the display every once in a while. But like OF2F said, make sure there is enough surface area on the rock, as rubble just traps detritus.


----------



## bigehugedome

Tazman said:


> Add some Culpera as well in the sump along with the Chaeto, more macro algae, more they will absorb the excess nitrates
> 
> :thumbsup: on the sump design, one thing I would consider doing though is split the return line to the fuge and not the intake line. That way you are returning "cleaned" water back into the sump and not having dirty water coming in from the overflow.
> 
> I recently removed my filter sock from my sump as I found it to be getting too dirty for my liking and cleaning it way too often. I did have some issues in my tank and as they seem to be sorted I will perhaps return it. Keep an eye on it and dont allow it to become to dirty.


 
Tazman, is this horrible painting what you mean by splitting the return line? Does it make that much of a difference?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Its basic to split the return off, you do this to fine tune the return flow. If you get a pump that is close to or over the overflow box into the sump, yoiu use the T line with ball valve to fine tune the return. If you do not do this, its possible to overflow the DT. If you get a return pump that is lower flow than the Overflow is then you need not install the T line. I have one on mine, but its not in use at this time. I installed it incase I had to get another pump and it was over what was needed on the system.


----------



## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> Its basic to split the return off, you do this to fine tune the return flow. If you get a pump that is close to or over the overflow box into the sump, yoiu use the T line with ball valve to fine tune the return. If you do not do this, its possible to overflow the DT. If you get a return pump that is lower flow than the Overflow is then you need not install the T line. I have one on mine, but its not in use at this time. I installed it incase I had to get another pump and it was over what was needed on the system.


 
OK so I am better with this second design, with the return in the middle, then i am with my first design? If so I will redo the plans so I can spec out the glass for the baffles.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Ah, not really better. You can add a T off anywhere you want to. I have mine on my left side. I have my sump compatmented by just using egg crate to section it off, just to keep the cheato from going into the are where my return and skimmer pumps are. The other section has the Macro Algae and intake lines in it.Desing is up to you, there are a vast number of different ways it can be done. I did it my way, to utilize all the space there was.


----------



## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> Ah, not really better. You can add a T off anywhere you want to. I have mine on my left side. I have my sump compatmented by just using egg crate to section it off, just to keep the cheato from going into the are where my return and skimmer pumps are. The other section has the Macro Algae and intake lines in it.Desing is up to you, there are a vast number of different ways it can be done. I did it my way, to utilize all the space there was.


OK, well maybe ill stick to my old way. I think it keeps things simple IMHO

OK, well here is the deal. Im having money issues. So, this is going to be delayed. Im gonna ask a few questions and thank everyone for the personalized support. Hopefully you will see me get started in the next month or so.

1. Using the DIY overflow posted eariler from reefing, my understanding is that when the power goes back on, im relying on both the return sump and the powerhead to recreate the cycle, where if I use an overflow box, you take one electrical item out of the equation, as when the return pump from the sump starts filling the DT, the water "overflows" to the Box and gravity does the rest. Is this correct?

2. Using the DIY posed above, it says to use 3/4 PVC, and then for my return use 1inch. Is this OK? What gph am i looking for going into the sump? What gph am i looking for returning to the DT. 

3. Are these bulbs OK for FOWLR and possibly some easy coral down the line, with the intent to upgrade at some point.
Ocean Sun Fluorescent T-8 Lamp - 10,000k - 15W - 18 in. | ThatPetPlace.com
Coral Sun 420nm T8 Actinic Fluorescent Lamp - 18 in. | ThatPetPlace.com

4. Ill decide on sand. Using some online Calculators ill need about 35-50 pounds for a 2-3" sand bed in the DT. Assuming the use of 13" baffles, how deep of a sand bed should i use in the sump? 2-3 or 6-8?

5. RO/DI - Which of these two would you perfer? If neither, what should i be looking for?
AQUARIUM II RO/DI REVERSE OSMOSIS WATER FILTER AQUASAFE | eBay

Amazon.com: Coralife 05692 Pure-Flo II 50-Gallon Per Day 4 Stage RO/DI System: Pet Supplies


Whew! I think thats it. Like I said, thank you for everyone for the individual attention. I hope to be back with a build log soon.

Oh and the last thing, what does eveyone think of a goby/shrimp pair?

Thanks


----------



## Reefing Madness

bigehugedome said:


> OK, well maybe ill stick to my old way. I think it keeps things simple IMHO
> 
> OK, well here is the deal. Im having money issues. So, this is going to be delayed. Im gonna ask a few questions and thank everyone for the personalized support. Hopefully you will see me get started in the next month or so.
> 
> 1. Using the DIY overflow posted eariler from reefing, my understanding is that when the power goes back on, im relying on both the return sump and the powerhead to recreate the cycle, where if I use an overflow box, you take one electrical item out of the equation, as when the return pump from the sump starts filling the DT, the water "overflows" to the Box and gravity does the rest. Is this correct?
> *Nope. They are both the same. They both utilize a Aqualifter or powerhead to suck air out of the wier or top of the pvc to restart the siphon.*
> 
> 2. Using the DIY posed above, it says to use 3/4 PVC, and then for my return use 1inch. Is this OK? What gph am i looking for going into the sump? What gph am i looking for returning to the DT.
> *Use 1" overflow for 600gph, and use 1" return for less restriction of the gph of the pump.*
> 
> 3. Are these bulbs OK for FOWLR and possibly some easy coral down the line, with the intent to upgrade at some point.
> Ocean Sun Fluorescent T-8 Lamp - 10,000k - 15W - 18 in. | ThatPetPlace.com
> Coral Sun 420nm T8 Actinic Fluorescent Lamp - 18 in. | ThatPetPlace.com
> *Ok for FOWLR, not going to be ok with Corals.*
> 
> 4. Ill decide on sand. Using some online Calculators ill need about 35-50 pounds for a 2-3" sand bed in the DT. Assuming the use of 13" baffles, how deep of a sand bed should i use in the sump? 2-3 or 6-8?
> *Depends, you want the use of a DSB? Or just the critters that grow in a Sand Bed?*
> 
> 5. RO/DI - Which of these two would you perfer? If neither, what should i be looking for?
> AQUARIUM II RO/DI REVERSE OSMOSIS WATER FILTER AQUASAFE | eBay
> * This one is fine.*
> 
> Whew! I think thats it. Like I said, thank you for everyone for the individual attention. I hope to be back with a build log soon.
> 
> Oh and the last thing, what does eveyone think of a *goby/shrimp pair*?
> *Yup, this pair is always cool to watch.*
> 
> Thanks


 :thumbsup:


----------



## MiamiLeos

Just want to get something straight... If you don't use the aqualifter in a reef ready tank you will flood after a power outage? I thought the whole point of reef ready was preventing floods. :facepalm:


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## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> Just want to get something straight... If you don't use the aqualifter in a reef ready tank you will flood after a power outage? I thought the whole point of reef ready was preventing floods. :facepalm:


 LOL. No No, your set with a Reef Ready tank. He's goin with the Overflow Box or Overflow PVC on the back of the tank. :-D


----------



## MiamiLeos

OH!! Now I get what he was comparing! I was going to be pissed if I sacrificed tank space for no benefit lmao. 

bigehugedome - pay no mind to me. i'm a noooob :roll:


----------



## bigehugedome

MiamiLeos said:


> OH!! Now I get what he was comparing! I was going to be pissed if I sacrificed tank space for no benefit lmao.
> 
> bigehugedome - pay no mind to me. i'm a noooob :roll:


No worries. The more learning here the better. Im just going to be creeping around the site taking more info in until I can build the funds to move forward.


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## bigehugedome

Here is a horrible (sry) pic of what I have. Im thinking the 20 on the bottom is too tall for the skimmer and all. Maybe I should grab a 15 gallon which will give me a few more inches of height to work with.











Blah, money sucks.........


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## Reefing Madness




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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


>


 
Lol oh gosh :-D


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## Reefing Madness

bigehugedome said:


> Lol oh gosh :-D


 :thumbsup:


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## MiamiLeos

Sweet tank!! And I so feel ya, money does suck lol


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## bigehugedome

GF wants to lend me they money to order everything right away. Since I already have to wait a month or so for the tank to be ready for fish she rather her buy everything that way it can cycle, and i can pay her back gradualy part by part as it cycles. I think she is just excited for a clown fish :love2:

Anyways, Im not doing anything until we get the security deposit back from our old place. But maybe I can get started sooner than expected.

Im also waiting to hear if my friends dad can cut glass for me as he works in a large glass shop :-D.

On the sump, i guess Ill wait untill I get the skimmer to see how it fits, as Id rather use the 20 gal I already have.

On lighting, what is needed for the fuge?


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## Reefing Madness

10.5 in. Brooder Clamp Light-E-240-4PK at The Home Depot
Using 23w compact flourescent


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> 10.5 in. Brooder Clamp Light-E-240-4PK at The Home Depot
> Using 23w compact flourescent


hmmm.... yea that's not gonna fit....... I guess I wont have anything to hang it from either since its a metal stand. For the bulb. What am i looking at spec wise for the bulb (k rating). Daylight bulb?


----------



## Reefing Madness

4100k, 5000k, 6500k, 6700k. No need to get Reef specific lamps. I use a 96w watt power compact over mine, leave it on 24-7. Used that one only because my set up would not allow for that big spot lamp either. And I had a spare fixuture laying around. You could use a T-5 small unit if you wanted, they fit alot better in tight spaces.


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## MiamiLeos

The fuge light stays on constantly? Doesnt that run the risk of overheating anything?


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## Reefing Madness

You do'nt have to run it 24-7. And no it doesn't over heat my stuff. Most run the Sump light on when their DT light is off, this stabilizes the PH better, keeps it from falling at night.


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## bigehugedome

Blah, $$$ adding up.

How would this work for some coral? 
Nova Extreme T5 HO Saltwater Aquarium Light Fixture - 24 in. | ThatPetPlace.com

My issue is, My hood only has one hole in the back so i would be unable to fit the overflow and return. I dont want to cut a hole in the plasic as it would ruin the built in filter (its an eclipse hood with bio-wheel). Im not sure if Ill use this hood for FW in the future, I dont want to damage the hood as its expensive, and maybe I can sell it at some point.

SO.... I have to get a new hood now, and since my T-8's are built into the hood I need new lights. Since i need this tank covered, I also need to buy/build something. Any ideas?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Project Notes: Luxeon LED lighting retrofit for Marineland Eclipse 3 aquarium hood
Aqua Pro 75W (25x3W) CREE LED Aquarium Reef Coral Tank LED Light White / Blue | eBay
Aquarium Reef LED Mountable Lamp 15W 14000K White (Metal Halide Alternative) | eBay
EVO Quad Clip 3W LED Aquarium Light Nano Coral Reef Marine FOWLR 20x 3W 3 Watt | eBay


----------



## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> Project Notes: Luxeon LED lighting retrofit for Marineland Eclipse 3 aquarium hood
> Aqua Pro 75W (25x3W) CREE LED Aquarium Reef Coral Tank LED Light White / Blue | eBay
> Aquarium Reef LED Mountable Lamp 15W 14000K White (Metal Halide Alternative) | eBay
> EVO Quad Clip 3W LED Aquarium Light Nano Coral Reef Marine FOWLR 20x 3W 3 Watt | eBay


 
I could buy the second one here and fit it in my hood like you see in the first link. I would need to lift the hood to turn the lights on and off. DO you run the blue and white at the same time?


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## Reefing Madness

Yes, I run blue and light at the same time.


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## bigehugedome

Well it would fit in that space. It would be close to the water so I'll have to make sure that's OK. And the hood is not vented to well. I guess I would be ok taking my dremel To the hood. As it it looks nice and it will be easier than building something from scratch. 

I think im getting some good ideas. I'll take some pics and post my ideas later. 

The tank may not be started untill November. I just really want to do SW as I already have a 29 freshwater and I don't wanna have two similar size FW tanks at the same time. So I may just keep brainstorming for another month or so here if ya don't mind  then buy everything and once and get started.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

If you use the LED's you won't have to worry to much about heat in the hood. They will produce some, but not very much compared to any of the flourescent lights.


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## bigehugedome

Ok and just one strip will be OK for some corals?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

?. The ones that I posted. Don't know if they'll fit in the hood. You'd have to take measurements. Then again, there are a ton out there to choose from.


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> ?. The ones that I posted. Don't know if they'll fit in the hood. You'd have to take measurements. Then again, there are a ton out there to choose from.


 Aqua Pro 75W (25x3W) CREE LED Aquarium Reef Tank Light White/Blue Aluminum USA | eBay

It would fit. I just wanted to make sure that only one will work for coral. I guess you would not have posted it if it did not. 
 
Here are very rough plans for my hood mods. As you can see, there are compartments for a filter and bio wheel. I won’t need these so I will cut them out. There three orange squares in the first pic are the areas where the hood rests on the tank so If I don’t touch those then it will still sit properly. 

I will also be able to retain the built in cable management for the lights and power heads.

I have to cut those compartments to allow for clearance for the intake since there is currently only one hole in the back of the hood.

I did not include a pic of the lights, as you can see it in this link that Reefing posted. With a few minor cuts, the above LED strip will fit. Issue is, it looks like you can only hang these lights, so I reached out to the seller to ask if there is a way to mount them.


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## Reefing Madness

When you get them, take the backing off and screw them to you lid, then put then put the LED face plate back on. And may I add, this thing is going to be cool once your done!!


----------



## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> When you get them, take the backing off and screw them to you lid, then put then put the LED face plate back on. And may I add, this thing is going to be cool once your done!!


 
Thats what I figured I could do. Thanks very much. Could not have got this far without everyones help. Im trying to save as much money as possible to get started ASAP. It may be sooner, or it may be later this year (maybe I can have people buy me items for christmas :-D, or maybe earlier with black friday deals)

About stock. Does this work:

Ocellaris Clownfish
Yellow Watchman Goby (or whatever will pair with a shrimp)
Pistol Shimp (or whatever pairs with my Goby)
Firefish
CUC - Whatever snails and crabs that would work. Hermits preferred if reef safe.
Brittle Starfish

No idea if this is overstocked, understocked, or just right. I know everyone says "pick out what you like" but the truth is I still know very little, and im continuing to research in this downtime, so besides just "correcting" my stock if it is not OK, feel free to make specific suggestions of additions or changes, and ill take the time to look into the fish and see if I like it.


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## Reefing Madness

Looks good. But those star fish get rather big.


----------



## bigehugedome

I saw that they get big but did not see a "minimum gallon" spec for them. Since there will not be alot of fish I figured the star would be interesting. 

Any room for more small fish or Is that pretty stocked? I figured I would add the Clown first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Reefing Madness

They are interesting, but if you consider the area they will take up (14") thats slot of space for one critter in a confined space.


----------



## bigehugedome

That's ok then. I don't want to do anything bad for the tank or the critter. Just was not sure if that would work or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Reefing Madness

bigehugedome said:


> That's ok then. I don't want to do anything bad for the tank or the critter. Just was not sure if that would work or not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Red Sea Star
Marble Sea Star
Bergundy Sea Star
Those are more suited for a small tank. Or the Mini Brittle Starfish.
: : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :
Marble Sea Star
Red Sea Star


----------



## bigehugedome

I was just looking at the red sea star. Girlfriend does not like the brittle anyway. Says its scary looking 

Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Reefing Madness




----------



## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


>


:shock:


----------



## Reefing Madness

Scary....:-D


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## bigehugedome

protein skimmer for saltwater aquarium

Any idea what brand this is? Im trying to find deals locally, and this is $20. Not sure if its worth it.


----------



## MiamiLeos

Reefing Madness said:


> Red Sea Star
> Marble Sea Star
> Bergundy Sea Star
> Those are more suited for a small tank. Or the Mini Brittle Starfish.
> : : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :
> Marble Sea Star
> Red Sea Star


If you were to keep a starfish, would you have to put mesh over all the powerheads and have a secure lid on the tank like with slugs, or would they be okay?


----------



## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> If you were to keep a starfish, would you have to put mesh over all the powerheads and have a secure lid on the tank like with slugs, or would they be okay?


 I know they won't climb out of the water, and I've never heard of anyone covering their powerheads, but thats not a bad idea. Wonder is thats why Koralia came out with their covers. Hmm.


----------



## Reefing Madness

bigehugedome said:


> protein skimmer for saltwater aquarium
> 
> Any idea what brand this is? Im trying to find deals locally, and this is $20. Not sure if its worth it.


Looks like a Seaclone. I wouldn't run a Seaclone personally.
Instant Ocean SeaClone Protein Skimmer 100 - up to 100 gal. | ThatPetPlace.com


----------



## MiamiLeos

Hmm.. I cant think of a mesh that would work without rusting over time that is small enough to be of any use. I'd like a marble star, but if it's legs are going to get eatch up by the power heads then that's no good lol


----------



## Reefing Madness

MiamiLeos said:


> Hmm.. I cant think of a mesh that would work without rusting over time that is small enough to be of any use. I'd like a marble star, but if it's legs are going to get eatch up by the power heads then that's no good lol


Depends on the style it is. Most have a cover for their heads now, even the knock offs have them. And some come with small enough heads that its not an issue.


----------



## bigehugedome

Went to the LFS.........cried cause im poor...............lol

And the Girl likes the Purple Dottyback and the Bicolor Dotty back. Maybe too aggressive in a 25 from what I read.

one day........


----------



## MiamiLeos

I love the Purple Dottybacks that look really bright pink! So different looking. I would think you could get away with one Dottyback if you were selective about your other fish.


----------



## bigehugedome

Well, my money situation keeps changing so its gonna be some time. I think I'll be getting some items for Christmas then moving forward after that. I'm also looking into Craig's list all the time for deals and such. I will have this tank! 

Thanks everyone. Ill most likely wake this post up from the grave when the times comes. Ill also be creeping around admiring everyone else's setups. I'm so excited but I need to stay calm and say "good things happen in time" or whatever that saying is lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MiamiLeos

Don't fret! I started looking into SW tanks over a year ago, and just last night did I finally get my tank running! SW tanks are a journey, not a destination, so enjoy the ride  I should take my own advice, been just about ready to pull my hair out these past few days with this tank lolol


----------



## bigehugedome

YAYYYYY GOOD NEWS!!!

I got a few side jobs going and got paid!
Security deposit from my old apt came in!
My mom's car was totaled (thankfully she is OK) so they got a new car last night and went to the same dealer i went to so im getting a referral check!!! Meaning once all this goes through............DUN DUN DUN



:BIGgrin::BIGgrin::BIGgrin::BIGgrin::BIGgrin:

FISH TANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bigehugedome

Sorry, Double post.

What do you guys think of the Red Sea Max 130 compared to my current would be 25gallon DT and 20gallon sump.

Red Sea Max 130

Looks to be pretty dirty, and im wondering if there is extra rock not in the tank because that does not look like 60 pounds to me. 

Anyway, I like how the tanks look, and im all for not having to spend the time and money on DIY. But what do you think of the equipment?

Im also thinking a tank like this is better for corals and will maybe allow me to add a few extra fish then planned.

She said it is still available. Should i make an offer for $400 since Its gonna require alot of cleaning?? Is there any extra hardware besides the RO/DI, and maintaince items i would need if i go this route?

Edit: just realized this is only the 130 but I was looking at the 130D before I found this.


----------



## bigehugedome

Anyone?

Make an offer on used red sea or continue with the DIY. If DIY is the way to go then i need to finish up plans by the 13th as ill be going to the well known PA and online retailer LFS that is having a big sale this month.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Thiose are good systems. Its always good to buy something already out together for you, no doubt about it. And if you were to try and get all that stuff yourself, its a good bet it would be close.


----------



## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> Thiose are good systems. Its always good to buy something already out together for you, no doubt about it. And if you were to try and get all that stuff yourself, its a good bet it would be close.


Could you help me with some specifics to this CL ad?

What do I need to ask her to make sure this is worthwile?
How old is the equipment?
How long has the tank been running?
What chemicals/medicine have been used?

It looks dirty to me....that plus some money conerns for getting RO/DI and test kits immediatly as opposed to me buying some items now over a months time. If I was to take everything now can I let it dry out and I can get it started in a few more weeks after my next checks? Then ill just add a few pounds of LR and Live Sand when im ready to start cycling. Does this still make it worthwhile, taking out the factor that it is already established?


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## Reefing Madness

Welp, after taking a good hard look at that tank, it looks pretty good to me. A long scraping session with a blade would clean that tank right up, and make it look pretty good. Maybe some more Live Rock, but for the most part, looks kinda on the good side. Now, the cost is a different thing altogether. It all depends on where your at, and if that type of tank is readily available. $400, is reasonable for that tank setup. There are also quite a few modifications that can be made to the tank that I think you may want to do in the future. I belive its a good deal.


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## bigehugedome

I made the offer. Im going to check my LFS and see what I can find. Never saw one used around here, but never seen the 130 new. Only the 130D, and i believe thats closer to $850. LFS has the S line i believe and its amazing and super expensive.

I see other on CL, and they are all 500+. Granted some have more corals and fish, but I want to make this my own tank, and not adopt yellow tangs that should not be in there.

At the same time this is way way way easier than building the 25Gallon from scratch, and will give me more room to do other things.

Im nervous.....i hope she says yes lol

Edit: Plus now I can use the 25 for another FW and the 20 as a SW QT


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## Reefing Madness

:thumbsup:


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## bigehugedome

She will take $425 for it and will include everything she has, ie. test kits/salt etc. So look like im a winner! Setting it up for this weekend!


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## bigehugedome

Another double.....

on the two clowns. I wont be ready to keep them this weekend as i have no ro/di etc. I want to start the correct way first. I have two options. What do you think.

1. I give them to my LFS. I dont think they trade for credit or anything............ but i know they take in fry and will grow them and sell them and i see older clowns come and go which i assume are trade-ins.

2. I could set them up in my QT for a month or so while i start fresh with the RSM. Is it OK to keep them in a 20QT with a HOB filter for flow, heater, and some LR? And is it OK to keep them for that long? Possibly two months max.

Im leaning toward option one. Its easier and makes more sense. Im asking though for just general knowledge. Say they were giving me a really expensive fish and I was in the same boat....does it make sense to keep them in a QT for that long?


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## Reefing Madness

No RO/DI.....Go to Wlamart and buy 30 gallons of Distilled water. And yes, general QT is around 8 weeks.


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> No RO/DI.....Go to Wlamart and buy 30 gallons of Distilled water. And yes, general QT is around 8 weeks.


 
OK...why no RO/DI? Just not necessary for right now? When I QT in the future should i use RO/DI?

In my HOB, what should I use for a filter media?
I have a standard t-8. Thats fine right?

If i do pick up the tank, should I save some water for the LR so i can move it to the QT?


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## Reefing Madness

Your pretty much on the mark with everything. Dstilled water is just as good as RO/DI Water. Yes, you should use the same type of water for QT that you are using in the DT. A T8 lamp is fine for a FOWLR. As far as filter media, how about .....none. Think about running GFO later or Carbon here and there. You should try to keep the LR moist,in whatever container you are using for transport. Take along a few extra 5g buckets with lids, and transport all the water you can, won't hurt.


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## onefish2fish

Reefing Madness said:


> Dstilled water is just as good as RO/DI Water.


i believe there are 2 common methods of distilling water, one of these involving copper vats in the process, which i personally dont know how i feel about creating a reef knowing my water was at one point exposed to it. (water does pass through copper pipes in a house,but its before hitting your RO/DI unit though) i cannot argue steamed distilled water with 0ppm and RO/DI water of 0ppm not matching but i thought i would just throw that out there.
im also not saying dont go buy some distilled water, just read the label and/or google the company's process.

i would also suggest using a QT of atleast 2 months to use it effectively. a piece of PVC pipe or two makes a cheap hide for fish.


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## bigehugedome

onefish2fish said:


> i believe there are 2 common methods of distilling water, one of these involving copper vats in the process, which i personally dont know how i feel about creating a reef knowing my water was at one point exposed to it. (water does pass through copper pipes in a house,but its before hitting your RO/DI unit though) i cannot argue steamed distilled water with 0ppm and RO/DI water of 0ppm not matching but i thought i would just throw that out there.
> im also not saying dont go buy some distilled water, just read the label and/or google the company's process.
> 
> i would also suggest using a QT of atleast 2 months to use it effectively. a piece of PVC pipe or two makes a cheap hide for fish.


 
ty for the info. ill be using this

Great Value: Distilled Water, 1 Gal: Beverages : Walmart.com

and to be clear i will be getting RO/DI in a few weeks, but would be getting the clowns and start QT on sunday


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## onefish2fish

sorry if you said your getting the RO/DI previously, just wanted to throw out that i believe ive seen something about distilled and copper. in your case, that will be perfect.


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## bigehugedome

onefish2fish said:


> sorry if you said your getting the RO/DI previously, just wanted to throw out that i believe ive seen something about distilled and copper. in your case, that will be perfect.


 
No worries, this is a long crazy thread full of knowledge, opinions and ideas 

Its crazy to grab 1 gallon jugs all the time/ buy water from the LFS IMHO. But since its going to be a few weeks untill i get my RO/DI ill need somethings if I keep the clowns.


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## bigehugedome

I just realized I won't have time today to mix SW for the qt. is that ok if I mix it tomorrow right in the tank before I put the clowns in qt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

Not a good idea. You should let it set for 24hours prior to use. Are you able to keep any water from the tank for QT use?


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> Not a good idea. You should let it set for 24hours prior to use. Are you able to keep any water from the tank for QT use?


Yes, i have buckets so i should be able to keep water. I can do that for a day and mix salt tomorrow with distilled and swap on monday.

I hit another issue. I chiped part of the QT tank when trying to get it in the bottom of the stand. And when i try to get it in the stand i noticed the back right corner does not siton the stand. I cant explain it really. im not sure what to do, i just no since there is no bottom to where the tank sits that the bottom rim of the tank needs to be flush on the stand and even, and its not.


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## Reefing Madness

Holy crap.


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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


> Holy crap.


 
The stand is messed up. Luckilky i did not buy everything for DIY. I guess if i want a QT i need to buy a stand.

Aquarium Stands & Furniture: Titan Eze Metal Aquarium Double Stands

$45. if i spend 5 more i get free shipping....


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## Reefing Madness

Guess, thats one way to do it.:-D


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## bigehugedome

Yea this sucks. I broke the 20 tank and had to by another and then I broke that tank so I need to return it and now that I realized the stand is junk I need a new one. Ugh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness




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## bigehugedome

oh man....good haul... details later. Im going to start a new thread with the RSM130 build since most the ideas here for for the DIY double decker and that is no more. Lookout for that tonight tomorrow. Here is a teaser


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## Reefing Madness




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## bigehugedome

Reefing Madness said:


>


 
Here it is!


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## Johnwall

Im also going to give my sister a saltwater fishtank! Thanks for the ideas


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