# manila newbie



## hoi polloi

hi guys,

i'm only 7 to 8 months into this hobby, but less than a week old with the realization that there's a whole science to it, thanks to this site.

i have 2 70 to 90 gallon freshwater tanks. i'm not really sure because i had them custom-built to fit a corner in the house. they measure 72in wide, 18in tall and front-to-back is 14in. so how many gallons are those?

the top tank has 4 snakeheads (~10 to 12in), 6 red pacus that are actually silver in color (~5in), 3 black oscars (~8in) and 1 black janitor fish (~couldnt care less). this tank started with more kinds and the above fishes are all thats left. call it evolution or survival of the fittest, let's just say i learned fish compatibility the hard way. i now have a smaller tank- 48x14x14, that houses goldfish that are actually meant to be live food (had i known!!!) and some fishes that survived the nasty trio above - 2 knife fishes (1 missing an eye), 2 dragon fins, and 1 black snake with white markings.

the lower tank has an assortment of guppies, dainios, barbs, dwarf red & blue gouramis, redtail 'sharks', crayfish (??? thats what the store told me), albino janitors, black and orange mollies, etc.

like i said, i had no idea on proper aquarium care, much less what fishes to combine. all i have are overhead filter boxes that have those foams, carbon bags, and another bag with what looks like white lifesavers. 

i change 80% of the water on the top tank every 2 to 3 days because those 3 fishes are freakin dirty and they make the water gray really quick. i removed the pebbles, stones, etc and now the bottom of the tank is just glass. makes it easier for me to vaccum their waste. no i don't check for anything in the water nor do i add anything. its just plain philippine tap.

the lower tank i change 80% of the water every 2 weeks. same thing, no checking and nothig added. removed the underwater white plastic things and just have pebbles and stones. i leave the fishes in the tank when i clean. i plonk the stones in there right from the store. needless to say a whole lot of fishes in the lower tank have died and have eventually found themselves in the bellies of the snakeheads.

i realize i've been a bad bad fish owner after discovering this site. am now on the road to repentance.


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## willow

hello and welcome.
goodness,you have a lot going on.
hmmm i really would suggest you get a water test kit.
although i know nothing of your water conditions out where
you are re filling your tanks with un dechlorinated water.:shock:
perhaps one of our members from your country will come in and
help.


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## obakebaki

Hey And welcome to the forum 

Is the Phillipines anything like Taiwan in tap water? Our normal tap water is cleaned but not chlorinated, and for drinking water, every house has a reverse osmosis machine... (my fish tend to die with a reverse osmosis machine for some reason, they are healthier if I use the normal tap water )


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## iamntbatman

Hello and welcome to the forum! Due to a bunch of overblown nonsense, all species of snakehead are illegal in my state (Maryland) so I've gotta say I'm a bit jealous of you. Snakeheads are awesome fish!

According to my calculations, those tanks are roughly 78.5g.

(I think I'm using the right numbers - divide the volume of the tank in cubic inches by 231 to obtain the volume in gallons).


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## hoi polloi

willow, funny thing is none of the shops i buy from ever mentioned a water test kit. perhaps they figure test kits will lead to the correction of my water conditions, letting my fish live longer, making my trips to their shops less frequent. but i'll check it out this weekend for sure. just this morning my daughter found the black snake in our living room:shock:. first time it did that. a water-dwelling snake wanting out of the water tank speaks a lot about my water:lol::lol::lol:.

obakebaki, the water from my tap comes from a deepwell pump and not the local water company line. i don't know if that is any better or worse than tap. drinking water in my country is bought in 5 gallon plastic containers and we all have hot & cold water dispensing things.

iamntbatman, thanks after 8 months i now know how many gallons those tanks are. yup the snakeheads are just crazy. i drop a bunch of feeder fish in there and its pandemonium. its a cloud of scales and gut after though:-(. 

the crazy thing about them snakeheads is they seem to know me:shock:. or they know that i am 'he who feedeth them'. when my wife or anyone in the house walks by the tanks, they just swim by. but when they see me, they're like dogs going around in circles, wagging their tails crazy and they would arch their backs and make a splash. just like dogs. that's what i tell my kids by the way when i go feed these monsters--> "time to feed the dogs!":-D.


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## willow

API make a liquid test kit that alot of us use,
it provides better results than the test strips.
and as for the fish "knowing you" i fermly belive this to
be true.


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## Lupin

Are these snakeheads _Channa micropeltes_ by any chance? They tend to grow out most tanks so I avoid them at all costs and these are available quite a lot in the Philippines.


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## hoi polloi

Lupin said:


> Are these snakeheads _Channa micropeltes_ by any chance? They tend to grow out most tanks so I avoid them at all costs and these are available quite a lot in the Philippines.


thanks for asking because it got me googling. yes, my snakeheads are apparently channa micropletes and i don't get the *micro*pletes part but the giant snakehead definitely corrects this. had they been sold to me as 'giant' snakeheads in the first place i wouldve said no. now, these have grown on me (literally and figuratively) that it would be hard to let go. but the 36inch length dictates that i can't have all 4 so i am letting go of 2. Or will retaining 2 still be unwise?? Can I keep 1??

last weekend i went to the 2 aquarium shops that i buy from and as i suspected, they don't carry any water testing kits.:evil: i'll try some other place next time. in the meantime, i bought some plants and i don't know what they are or if i bought the right ones for the fish or available light i have. all i know is that when the store said they don't have testing kits, they said plants can lead to water correction. so the sucker that i am just bought what he offered.


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## Lupin

For a fish that grows to 3-4 feet, I'd get a pond for one fish only. This really sucks. Consider euthanasia or sell them to someone who has large ponds. This is why I avoid _Channa micropeltes_ as much as possible. Look for _Channa bleheri_ or _Channa gachua_ as substitutes. They're smaller and do not reach beyond 10 inches.

As for kits, most stores in Cartimar in Pasay have them. Post pics of the plants. I'll be glad to assist you there.


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## hoi polloi

Lupin said:


> For a fish that grows to 3-4 feet, I'd get a pond for one fish only. This really sucks. Consider euthanasia or sell them to someone who has large ponds. This is why I avoid _Channa micropeltes_ as much as possible. Look for _Channa bleheri_ or _Channa gachua_ as substitutes. They're smaller and do not reach beyond 10 inches.
> 
> As for kits, most stores in Cartimar in Pasay have them. Post pics of the plants. I'll be glad to assist you there.


here are the pics. i took them section by section so you can have a closer look at the plants. topmost pic is the tank's leftmost and hardly hit by sunlight and bottommost is rightmost and gets a lot of sun. by the way, i'm talking about afternoon sunlight, between 2pm to 5pm. as far as the overhead lights, i don't know the wattage and i only turn them on when i'm home to view them mostly in the evenings, otherwise they're off.


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## hoi polloi

ooops this should be somewhere in between there (before the last pic).


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## Lupin

1st pic-_Cabomba caroliana_
The red ones, I'm not certain but probably _Rotala_ _sp._
3rd pic-green ones are _Echinodorus sp._
Last pic-the one with large long leaves is _Cryptocoryne crispatula_


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## hoi polloi

Lupin said:


> 1st pic-_Cabomba caroliana_
> The red ones, I'm not certain but probably _Rotala_ _sp._
> 3rd pic-green ones are _Echinodorus sp._
> Last pic-the one with large long leaves is _Cryptocoryne crispatula_


thanks again. well the cabombas have now been heavily cut by some of the fish, dont know which ones, and the branches and leaves are floating all over the tank. so it seems to me that these plants are also food, am i right? the red rotalas seem to be dieing. either that or they're in adjustment phase. and the fish just seem to be nibling away at the plants. the leaves all have carvings. is it wise to just buy plants that fish don't eat.

well no one wants to take my snakeheads. i had them since they were less than 3 inches so i can't euthanize them either. i'm offering them back to the store i bought them from.


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## Lupin

That sucks. Have you tried the Oceanarium exhibit if they can offer to take those? A lot of FW fish there were actually donated by hobbyists in Manila. I was told this by Angel Ampil (author of Animal Scene magazine) when I met him in his office last April.


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## iamntbatman

Too bad you will have to give them up...really some beautiful fish.


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## hoi polloi

ok guys, the store that sold the snakeheads to me got them back. i'm just getting some other fish in exchange.

i told you guys that i think my snakeheads know me. do you think they understand that i gave them up? :lol::lol::lol: i mean, they were in this new tank looking at me walk away. yup iamntbatman, they're beautiful fish indeed. will look out for some non-giants in the future.

my kids miss the frenzy of snakehead feeding time. i guess they're singing 'who let the dogs out'.


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## Lupin

Hoi polloi, did you get my PM of my contact number? I can contact you if I can see _Channa bleheri_ available again. Angel Ampil has these last time he got them and sold them for 700 pesos. What fish are you getting?


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## hoi polloi

hi lupes, just saw your pm now. will definitely get in touch with you about that channa bleheri. looks niiiiice. and the magic word?--> 8-inches! that's 32 inches shorter than the micropletes. ergo, workable in my tank! me likey! and a website says they also take pellets? hope this info is true. i feel 100lbs lighter now that i don't have to buy live goldfish and feed them to the channas.

i already got in return some cichlids(?) that have black and gray vertical stripes. the seller told me they were _coronets? cornets? comets???_ anyway, they're now mixing in well with the oscars and the red pacus. ;-) 

also got some ramirezis (easier to remember) for the lower tank. although their color seems to have faded somewhat. hope its an adjustment phase.:-?


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## Lupin

hoi polloi said:


> i already got in return some cichlids(?) that have black and gray vertical stripes. the seller told me they were _coronets? cornets? comets???_ anyway, they're now mixing in well with the oscars and the red pacus. ;-)


May need pics for this one.



> also got some ramirezis (easier to remember) for the lower tank. although their color seems to have faded somewhat. hope its an adjustment phase.:-?


 It happens especially when they are new to their tank.


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## Lupin

Hoi polloi, check this one for snakehead sales. Be sure to save some of your cash and research further on the species mentioned.
Exotic Fish Catalogue - PALHS Online Community Forum


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## iamntbatman

Could the cichlids you're talking about be convicts? Watch out! If they decide to form breeding pairs they could become quite nasty and might even beat up the larger oscars. They also breed like rabbits.


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## hoi polloi

iamntbatman, wiki shows convicts' colors are black and blue stripes with streaks of red. mine are black and gray and the stripes are full and straight, not broken and irregular as wiki shows. is there a site where i can find cichlid pics so i can determine which one i have? heck, i'll just drop by the store.:lol:

lupin, nice site. wow! suppose if i even had all the money, how many tanks will my wife let me have? will surely put this site in my links! thanks!!!


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## Lupin

Hoi polloi, post the pics of your cichlids. Well, I have 7 tanks right now and adding.;-) Tell your wife tanks are certainly relaxing but unless money is not an issue, don't show her the planted tank shots. Heaven knows just how much you have to invest if you want a lush planted tank with CO2 injection.:shock: I've been there before. Thank goodness. I quitted it because it was beginning to eat through my budget. I'm currently into invertebrates and loaches so as you see my signature, it is so ironic because loaches relish invertebrates as part of their diet.:lol:

By the way, you can try low maintenance version of the planted tanks. I'm doing this currently in my snail tank. _Cryptocoryne becketii, Cryptocoryne wendtii, Nymphaea lotus_ and _Egeria densa_ are used here. They're really so lushy my snails like to crawl among them. I had Java moss before but my _Pomacea canaliculata_ ate them along with the duckweeds so the canas are now in a separate tank without plants. They're approaching baseball size and should be able to by next year. If you want to know more about inverts, feel free to post in Invertebrates forum and I can help you there if you're interested. Be warned though once you get bitten by the invert bug, you won't be able to resist buying every invert you see.:mrgreen:

Good luck!


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## hoi polloi

7 tanks!:shock: and adding:shock::shock::shock:! wow seems to me you got the wifey factor in perfect control. my wife stepped on the brakes after 3 tanks.:lol: i actually have 2 more empty tanks in the storage waiting in limbo.

will research on your low maintenance planted tank and see if madness develops and i barge into the house with the empty tanks. as far as inverts and loaches, well i'm still working on the fish part. hmmm... will the inverts and loaches be perfect for the planted tanks vs fish?

by the way, the pics. below are the striped cichlids i was telling you about. the stripes were much darker before.

















and the ramirezis that also lost their luster. they also used to have a black streak at the front of their upper fin.


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## Lupin

Your striped cichlid is _Tilapia buttickoferi_. That's a nasty fish you have there! They can reach 12 inches if properly cared for.

I see you also bought a pacu. Do you know these fish grow to 3 feet? I had two myself not realizing they are very huge for my tanks. The moment they reach 12 inches, they were getting more agitated because my tank cannot support even one well enough. That was back when I know nothing about fish. I regret buying them but I had to destroy them. No one wants a huge fish at that time.

As for loaches and inverts, well, a lot of loaches relish inverts in their diet. Inverts are their natural prey in the wild. The only loaches that will work well are kuhlis and hillstreams but kuhlis can still eat snails that are smaller than their mouths so be careful with what you choose. Kuhlis and inverts (not counting the crayfish) are perfect for planted tank setups. You don't want to get crayfish which will prey on fish and other inverts alike. I am currently raising several snails particularly the _Pomacea bridgesii_ and _Clithon corona_. The brigs are producing quickly. There is also another snail, _Pomacea canaliculata, _the ones we call locally 'kuhol'. I have over 80 of these with the adults racing to baseball size. You don't want these for your planted tanks though as they eat plants voraciously. I had a stray baby cana disguised as one of the baby brigs and wind up eating several of my plants much to my dismay. It's back in its cana tank now though. The brigs won't eat the plants. All snails require calcium in their diet so feed them calcium pills, cuttlefish bones, broken eggshells or calcium enriched vegetables such as collards. More information can be found in www.applesnail.net. Let me know if you have any more questions. I'll be more than happy to help you there.


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## hoi polloi

:shock::evil:tilapia... buttafuoco???:lol::lol: will these look like the ones we eat but with stripes??? when you say nasty, is that good or bad:-?? will these get any better colorwise as they grow? 

the pacus i had them when they way smaller and much darker. it seems like i start out with fish that will grow too large for my tank and then i go to the store and trade them for lunch (like these tilapias). by the way, i also have black oscars that are big now too at 10in. are these ok or am i getting rid of these too. 

by the way, what's an ideal max length of an adult fish in a 78 gallon tank?

ok some questions on the planted tanks, loach and inverts. but first, i can only use my previous feeder fish tank for this which is 14in height x 12in front to back and length is 24in. 
1. will this do for a LOW maintenance lush planted tank?
2. can i put in little cute snails and shrimps?
3. are these available in cartimar? i live in southern manila and the fish stores here don't carry them.


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## Lupin

When I say nasty, these are highly aggressive fish. I would never put them with anything else especially as they grow to a foot size. As for the oscars, one is fine for a 70g although the bigger the tank, the better. If you want to mix it with other large fish, then double the filtration of what you have right now and do large weekly water changes to cope with the bioload. To me, I'd simply stick with the smaller ones. Monster fish are not exactly something that strike my fancy especially when they tend to demand plenty of space and other accommodations. You'll be better off with smaller community species, Hoi polloi. They're much less hassle compared to the large cichlids, pacus and snakeheads. If you want to try another fish, please ask first before attempting to get it.

To answer your questions...
1. Yes, they will be fine in low maintenance planted tank setups.
2. Yes, you can but like I said earlier, select the fish at your own risk. Many fish eat shrimps especially when they molt as they shed their shell which makes them more vulnerable to predator attacks. If I were you, try the pencilfish, emperor tetras, _Danio margaritatus_, ember tetras, flame tetras or neons/cardinals.
3. Shrimps are available in some shops. Try www.mypalhs.com. Many people there breed crystal red shrimps, bumblebee shrimps and red cherry shrimps. I believe they can cost 30-40 pesos each but they tend to proliferate quickly especially in heavily planted tanks. My shop carries tiger shrimps and skunk shrimps but as they're rarely available, they cost 200 pesos each. As for the snails, only the _Clithon corona_ is available at the moment in some stores. I bought all 10 of them at 100 pesos each. Nerites will never breed successfully in FW. They need varying salinity to be able to breed. Go to the Pet Solutions forum owned by Bonifacelan in www.mypalhs.com or contact him in his cellphone number (see my PM). He sells variety of Sulawesi snails and nerites at the moment. Sulawesis are plant eaters though so this is very unfortunate but they are very rare at the moment and are breedable in FW. They range from 2-3 inches in shell size.

I have the _Pomacea bridgesii_ at the moment and breeding them. Currently have over 100 of these but they're not for sale yet as the ones I received have slight shell damage due to the acidic pH they were in from their original owner and the babies are still really too small to be sold. The original owner will not be selling at the moment though as she is trying to focus on her dogs and slowly getting back her attention to her snails. I will inform you when I can sell them but probably it'll be due next year. I am also searching for other snails so I can breed them and sell if I get a few extras.


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## Lupin

See these threads for inverts you want.
Pet Solutions-Sulawesi and nerite snails
Sulawesi Shrimp and Snail - PALHS Online Community Forum

Crystal red shrimps and bee shrimps
Crystal Red Shrimp for sale - PALHS Online Community Forum

Inverts thread...You'll find plenty of people who breed them.
inverts thread - PALHS Online Community Forum

I don't think I know of anyone else who owns and breeds brigs other than me and my friend who sent them. Will be posting pics of my brigs, canas and nerites soon enough when I upload them. They're just waiting in my camera.


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## hoi polloi

ok lupes, as i type this my mind plays roy orbison's you really got me. this forum and palhs will soon hear from my wife. but i will start with the 20g tank and see how it goes before i attempt anything on the 78s.

the 20g tank is atop a kitchen counter and in a corner with with windows on either side. so its not necessarily dark, it gets a fair enough amount of light but not direct sunlight. in the palhs page i went to on plants, some say 'minimum light needed'. do the light conditions stated above fall into this description? because the overhead light of this tank is the one attached under the cabinet situated above it. and the switch to this light turns on all the other lights tucked under all the cabinets in the kitchen. its a modular kitchen cabinet thing. and i can't seem to fit a separate light in between the tank and the cabinet.


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## Lupin

Yes, the 'minimum light needed' falls to the low lighting plants. They do not demand too much lighting, ferts and CO2 dosing. I had been through this one and it was too much of a hassle for me although some may disagree but I will not bother with high lighting again. The following are undemanding and easy to keep.
1. _Egeria densa_
2. Hornworts
3. Java ferns
4. Java moss
5. Anubias
6. _Cryptocoryne sp._
7. _Hygrophila sp._
8. _Nymphaea lotus_

Cut off the leaves of the lotus that reach the surface so the light can penetrate to the bottom. Please PM me your number. I will be going to Manila on December 15 so there is no telling when we could possibly meet.:wink2:


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## Lupin

If you're interested to see my snails, here they are, Hoi polloi. I was already persuaded by the LFS owner to start keeping tiger shrimps. I may try to invest in some and breed them.:lol:
http://www.fishforum.com/invertebrates/some-invertebrate-pictures-shrimp-snails-15092/


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## hoi polloi

lupes, those shrimps and snails are really cool. definitely none of those for sale in these parts. will definitely hit cartimar this weekend to check some out. 

and i am dead set on going planted. aside from the encountering the beautiful term-- 'low maintenance' repeatedly in the planted tank forums, the pics i see make my tank look like crap lately.

so for the 20g tank, whats a nice substrate? reading through the forums give me a hundred options. by the way, will i still need an air/water filter/pump? and when i buy those moss/grass(?) pads, do i lay them down like tiles and cover the entire floor area, or can i cut them into portions and scatter them and hope that they'll spread and cover the empty parts?


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## Lupin

Well, if your filter is creating surface movements already, you do not need airpumps but you will need a battery operated one for power outages to avoid oxygen depletion. You could visit the Fishyguy affliate forum in PALHS. Angel Ampil sells substrate for plants. If by grass you mean dwarf sagittaria, just leave a few inches gap between each plant as you plant. They will cover the substrate soon after.


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## hoi polloi

lupes, so i went to cartimar last weekend and i think i was in the bonifacelan store (didn't bother to check store name outside) since i saw most of the stuff he was selling online. like the little mossballs in little bottles with little shrimps. i'm 98% sure i was in bonifacelan's and not letty's.

like i said, saw some small red and white shrimps and asked the price and they said there are some priced at 300 and some at 500 depending on their 'grade'.

in other stores, i saw some gray snails but presumed they were worthless because they were placed in some dirty plastic pail. so didn't bother to ask the price. they're like the snails that get mixed up in some 'kuhol' dishes. they're the narrow sort.

also saw what seems to be a grass pad. its maybe 12in x 12in and the lady calls them 'carpet'. is this any good? they're cheap at 100 compared to the similarly priced one at bonifacelan's except its an itty bitty 1.5in x 1.5in.

substrates, i saw some white sand(?) and some bicol river sand. what's the way to go? plants are also cheap in this store at P10 each, regardless of variety or color. bonifacelan's are priced much higher but they're from thailand i'm told.

in some of the planted tank pics, i see some guys laying down a pattern of pvc blue pipes before any substrate is introduced. whats this for and more importantly, do i need it when i go low-tech?


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## Lupin

hoi polloi said:


> lupes, so i went to cartimar last weekend and i think i was in the bonifacelan store (didn't bother to check store name outside) since i saw most of the stuff he was selling online. like the little mossballs in little bottles with little shrimps. i'm 98% sure i was in bonifacelan's and not letty's.


Ah...Good catch.



> like i said, saw some small red and white shrimps and asked the price and they said there are some priced at 300 and some at 500 depending on their 'grade'.


These are crystal red shrimps. I believe you encountered the SS grade which is indeed ridiculously expensive!



> in other stores, i saw some gray snails but presumed they were worthless because they were placed in some dirty plastic pail. so didn't bother to ask the price. they're like the snails that get mixed up in some 'kuhol' dishes. they're the narrow sort.


Could you please confirm if these are _Pila conica_? Click below link for reference.
Pila conica

I'm searching for them as I believe these are now endangered. I am planning to breed them to restore their population. They're the native snails the older generation would relate that they used to eat. Their declining population is due to the displacement by the invasive species, _Pomacea canaliculata_ and overpoaching.



> also saw what seems to be a grass pad. its maybe 12in x 12in and the lady calls them 'carpet'. is this any good? they're cheap at 100 compared to the similarly priced one at bonifacelan's except its an itty bitty 1.5in x 1.5in.


Are these stuck on a rock? If so, it is _Riccia fluitans_, floating plants that are stuck with mesh to prevent from floating. If not, I think those are dwarf sagittaria but carpet plants like that are messy so you have to plant them individually.



> substrates, i saw some white sand(?) and some bicol river sand. what's the way to go? plants are also cheap in this store at P10 each, regardless of variety or color. bonifacelan's are priced much higher but they're from thailand i'm told.


Bicol river sand. The white sand is not likely to be inert and can alter your water chemistry too much.



> in some of the planted tank pics, i see some guys laying down a pattern of pvc blue pipes before any substrate is introduced. whats this for and more importantly, do i need it when i go low-tech?


Something like this?
River-Tank Manifold Design — Loaches Online


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## hoi polloi

couldn't say if them snails were pila conica. will try to drop by again sometime and take a closer look. if they're worth keeping, then i'll consider them for my 20g soon-to-be planted tank. what will coexist peacefully with these snails?

the grass pads aren't stuck to a rock. they're just like square tiles. at their price, i think i'lljust cover the entire ground with these rather than wait for a few sporadic patches to spread out. are there any fish who can sort of 'mow' this grass, like feed on the grass tips? so i can have a landscaped look. or do i sink my arms in there and trim the grass with scissors?

ok bicol river sand it is, although its colored brown.:-( i really prefer white as the light lands nicely on it. oh well...

i guess the blue piping is out of the question. i don't have loaches.


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## Lupin

hoi polloi said:


> couldn't say if them snails were pila conica. will try to drop by again sometime and take a closer look. if they're worth keeping, then i'll consider them for my 20g soon-to-be planted tank. what will coexist peacefully with these snails?


I don't know yet if _Pila conica_ truly eats plants. I'm about to get a few specimens from Aklan so I can study them and breed. Will let you know by then if they are compatible with plants. Also, I'm going there in that place where you saw the snails so I'll have a look over them.;-)



> the grass pads aren't stuck to a rock. they're just like square tiles. at their price, i think i'lljust cover the entire ground with these rather than wait for a few sporadic patches to spread out. are there any fish who can sort of 'mow' this grass, like feed on the grass tips? so i can have a landscaped look. or do i sink my arms in there and trim the grass with scissors?


They sound like _Echinodorus tenellus_ to me. Carpet plants are messy as carpets. I'd plant them individually. You'll have to trim them yourself.;-)



> ok bicol river sand it is, although its colored brown.:-( i really prefer white as the light lands nicely on it. oh well...


Brown is more natural actually. Dump them in the tank and do plenty of water changes and vacuuming to remove the finer particles. It's easier than rinsing them through the tapwater. You could place filter floss in your filter and run it to vacuum out the particles as well.



> i guess the blue piping is out of the question. i don't have loaches.


 It's not necessary.lol


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## hoi polloi

well it has been almost a year and all my half-hearted attempts at planted tanks went kaput. my 80 and 20 gallon tanks are now just just sand, stones and snails. apparently, so-so lighting, poor substrate choices and co2 exclusively from fish poop won't a lush garden make. in fact, it can't even sustain a single leaf of grass.

and the recent manila typhoon caused long brownouts which killed most of my big fish - pacus and oscars. so i am left with another 1 80gallon with some high-finned upsidedown-swimming janitors and a dragonfin.

while this may turnoff most from the hobby, i am still determined to make it work. so here i go again in familiar territory - the beginning.;-)


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## aunt kymmie

Sorry to hear of your troubles but I'm glad you didn't give up. Welcome back to the forum!


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## Lupin

Welcome back, HP!

And here's a good catch. I am back to basics myself with goldfish.:mrgreen:


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## hoi polloi

thanks aunt kimmie! there are just some things you don't give up on-- family, friends... and fish!:-D

hey lupes! i see your into goldfish now. talk about gradeshchool, i grew up on that and my dad's still into it. now he's got some ping pongs (that's what he calls them). he really has difficulty with them during summer months, and that's when only the strongest survive. he's moved up and down the whole goldfish list except for those giant ones.


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## Lupin

I posted the slideshow of goldies here.:mrgreen:
Goldfish Slideshow 

If temperature soars dangerously, your goldfish are better off kept indoors.


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## willow

welcome back. :-D


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