# 20 gallon! Help me choose!



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

So, long story short I bought an aquaclear 20 filter and a 20 gallon long today for $30. My parents are like OMG but it was such a good deal right! I could have bought 10 3 gallons for $20, so they should be happy. The guy really wanted the tanks gone. 

Dimensions: 30x12.5x12.5 inches.

So I still have to clean it. I need some ideas for what to put in it! Here's my thoughts:

-some sort of gourami. My water may be too hard for them. Are there any that do well in medium hard water?

-dwarf puffers- love these guys BUT they should be species only, and I don't wanna donate 20 gallons to 10 puffers.

-threadfin rainbows- adorable, like my water. BUT it seems difficult to get them colored up properly, they are sensitive to pH changes (tank maturation?) and nitrates (lots of water changes?).

Other rainbowfish suggestions? PH 7.2, dH 13/14ish.

-fiddler/red claw crabs- I love inverts. I may love them more than fish.. These pet store crabs would be good practice for when I want to import commando fiddlers from Indonesia someday (google those things-amazing). BUT I haven't looked much into brackish water and don't know how much this would add to costs.

A coldwater tank: celestial pearl danios & panda loaches- one of my dream combos, not gonna lie. These fish are both gorgeous, and I could have a huge school of them. Haven't looked into how sensitive they are, panda loaches are strict algae eaters, I'd need to grow algae, not a big problem. BUT these fish are impossible to find in my area, so I'd need to ship em in, could be pricey.


Opinions? Ideas for other combos?  
(btw don't want a betta sorority, )


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh you lucky duck!! That is a steal. I'ma give you my thoughts on your stocking plans. 

- gourami. Yes there are a few that can live in your water. Honey gourami and dwarf gourami are the two that come to mind. TFK profile on dwarfs, TFK profile on honeys. You might even be able to keep a little harem of honeys ^-^ 

- puffers? can't really say much about them except they are cute

- threadfin rainbows. haven't heard of them, but with enough plants in the tank, it's really easy to keep the nitrates down. Plants will also help stabalize pH. But, you might want to stock the tank with something less sensitive for the first few months and let it mature (great excuse to plop betta in there ;-) )

- I can't really speak for brackish. There is an invert and brackish forum over at TropicalFishKeeping.com (parent site of BettaFish.com). You could go ask some questions there about cost and whatnot. 

- oh my god. I looked up Panda loaches and fell in love!! Those guys are adorable! And rather new to the hobby. Loaches.com didn't have a profile on them, but I found an article in TFH A Panda of a Different Nature | TFH Magazine This has my vote!! Since they are so rare in the hobby it would be interesting to see if you could breed them. EDIT: just a little more info: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus='Protomyzon'&species=pachychilus&id=1589 I'm falling more in love.


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## ladayen (Jun 21, 2011)

Well.. first off.. You would only want 3-5 puffers in a 20g, and thats only if they were the tiny ones like pea puffers and you were careful in how you set the tank up. 1 figure 8 puffer wouldn't really work great in a 20.

Rainbowfish are quite active fish and needs larger groups of 8+ so a 48" long tank is best.

As to the danios.. well true they have lower preferred temperatures then many tropical fish, it's not that much lower.. only a couple of degrees. By no means are they coldwater fish. Also both these fish are likely going to be wild caught and will require especially clean water and special diets especially when you first get them. 

Regardless of what you decide cycle your tank first so your not poisoning any fish


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Dwarf puffers are 1 fish per 2-3 gallons. :s I don't want them anywho.
Seriously fish says that threadfins need 15 gallons for a group, they're pretty good about sizing, they are a small species.

Either way, leaning towards the loaches/danio or crabs. 
The danios are getting up there, more people are breeding them now. 
The panda loach is a dream, I know. I read that they won't thrive in a tropical tank and it can actually weaken them over time. It'll be hard to do research since they are new, but a tank of celestial danios and panda loaches would be so beautiful! 
It may be a while before I can get this going, I'll clean it today though.
Don't worry I know all about cycling.
Tank maturation is what's got me worried, all the invisible stuff. I may need a small school of rosy reds to mature it for for me. Or just plant densely, which could take forever since plants are pricey x.x maybe someone on TFK in Canada could send some things cheap.
I'm gonna head over to the inverts/brackish part of TFK and ask about the crabs in a bit :3


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Do the danio/loach setup!! I've always loved the celestial pearls and I've fallen in love with the panda loached. You're really making me want to make one in the future. I have a soft spot for serpentine and riverine loaches. I may even try working on spawning them. It's always been a dream of mine to spawn loaches in the home aquaria.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

That link was really helpful!
I'm scared of how expensive these loaches will be though.. :s
I will definitely try spawning them if I get them, it's probably similar to hillstream loach species. 
"hardness was undetectable" might be a key to spawning them.. I'll need to find some RO water and get hardness down to at least 6dH, they'll probably be used to worse by the time I get them. I'll also need to get some air pumps.
What do they mean be submersible filters?

Edit: around $75 each. Each. I may have to go with crabs :x


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## Savannah (Mar 2, 2012)

- Dwarf gourami would be a good choice they are hardy and can live in ph from 6.0-8.0 and have Huge personalities.

- I would suggest a killifish because they are one of the most colorful fish and there are SO MANY diffrent kinds.They are also extremely fun to own and if given spirulina supplement can get SOOOO beautiful. Here's a link about them: Search the killifish species database

-If your looking for rainbows I would suggest a group of 3-4 pygmy rainbow 1 male and 2-3 females.(males have red fins and females have yellow)

- puffers would be a REALLY bad choice for a community tank because they WILL harass and bite your other fish constantly.

- I would get a species tank for the crabs if you realy want them because the other fish you want can't go in brackish water.

- the pandas and danios would be fine.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I saw the price tag on the Panda Loaches on AB, and my wallet twinged. Crabs would still be really neat. 

Submersible filters are just another kind of filter. They tend to produce a more directional current and are often used in river-type setups to emulate flow. You could also just get a submersible pump. But I would have at least one good HOB filter as it sounds like these guys like really clean water. Alternatively, you could go with a canister filter to get a really good directional flow going.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I think I'll shove panda loaches back for now. Woulda been so cool if some 17 year old bred them first though! 

You've got me thinking about breeding. I may try some type of hillstream loach. What's a good fish to breed, no livebearers. Looking somewhere in the $5-10 per fish range. Forktail blue eyes maybe?


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

You could try a massive RCS or CRS colony.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Gourami can be fun to breed. Males and females are commonly kept together, so you could try breeding honey gourami (they're remarkably similar to bettas). I've honestly never thought much of breeding a fish besides livebearers (because if you have them, they'll breed) or loaches (because there are so few accounts). Here is what seriouslyfish has to say about breeding those forktail rainbowfish : Forktail Rainbowfish (Pseudomugil furcatus) - Seriously Fish


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I vote for the loach but it says they are rare. Where would you get it from?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Tiki, as much as I love them they are a no go, one person on aquabid sells them, for $60 each. 
Koimaiden, I think I will try honey gourami breeding. The only fish (besides paradise fish) that my dad has a soft spot for are gourami, so maybe I'll get more bonus points towards another tank. 
Except, I'd have to divide it to spawn them, one side for parents one side for babies since I don't have a spawn tank, don't think they parents can stay inside


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If you want to go the rainbowfish route, a school of ten or so Pseudomugil furcatus or forktail blue-eye would go well in a 20 gallon. They are an active fish, very personable, and truly spectacular when sparring and displaying. 

There are lots of Pseudomugil species available, and they are great fish for tanks in the 15-20 gallon range.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Awesome. I've only seen threadfins at my LFS, they are ugly and grey looking, not bright orange like I see on google, would they colour up in a proper environment? They might be stressed out or something. I feel like I have enough room for a small group. They need a well planted tank to help with nitrates. How sensitive are Furcata exactly? 

My final choices are:
Forktail blue eyes (species only)
Threadfin Rainbowfish (species only)
Common Hatchet fish (with one of the tetra)
X-ray tetra
Firehead/rummynose tetra
Honey gourami (with something, or alone if I decide to breed)

I asked about fiddler crabs on TFK, waiting for a response of some sort


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Mine died because of an ammonia spike (oops) but my other Pseudomugil species (mellis) are pretty hardy. They survived the ammonia spike, an outbreak of internal parasites and multiple tank moves. Now I have them settled in an established, heavily planted tank and on a diet of pellets, live BBS and blackworms, they are spawning nearly every day. 

I imagine furcatus would be pretty much the same. Rainbows tend to be pretty sensitive to water quality so I do regular small water changes on my mellis tank to keep everyone happy.

I think some threadfins may also have different colourations depending on where they were originally collected, I know it happens with a lot of rainbowfish. The only ones I have seen (even happy ones in established tanks) have only been silver-bodied like in these pictures

http://www.aquagreen.com.au/plant_data/Iriatherina_werneri.html

Never that really strong orange-brown I have seen on some.

I intend on collecting as many Pseudomugil species as I can, if that says anything about how much I have enjoyed owning them.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Alright well I'll cross off the threadfins since I only like those really intense ones. I was reading about them, and the colour seems to be a mix of original location, and that apparently they never adapt well in aquaria and often turn silver in all but the best of environments. The New Guinea ones seem much more colourful than ones collected in Australia though.

The mellis are really soft water fish right? I don't want to be bothered to mess around with that yet, my water's no good for them.

I'm thinking either furcata, and my rabbit snail (want to breed them eventually), and maybe some sort of shrimp. Would a group of 10 be good for 20 gallons?

Or 6 firehead tetra, and either 6 hatchet fish, or 3 honey gourami with them. Plus shrimp/rabbit snails. 

I want to do a soil based planted tank as well.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Yeah mellis and gertrudae are softer water while furcatus and tenellus generally like it at least neutral or harder. 

Furcatus are pretty boisterous fish (think similar to danios) but a group of 7-10 should do well in a 20 gallon tank as they don't grow too big.

I feed mine .5mm spectrum pellets as their mouths are pretty small but they also took flake. They really enjoy a heavily planted tank, and if you want to breed, it is recommended that you check your spawning mop everyday as they will eat both eggs and fry.

I hatch my mellis eggs in a 2L milk bottle with an airstone and a drop of multi-cure (methelyne blue) to keep away fungus.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Yeah mellis and gertrudae are softer water while furcatus and tenellus generally like it at least neutral or harder.
> 
> Furcatus are pretty boisterous fish (think similar to danios) but a group of 7-10 should do well in a 20 gallon tank as they don't grow too big.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the advice on these somewhat uncommon little guys. 
It'll be a tough choice for me, I have quite some time while I set up the planted tank though.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Norbert said:


> Hi everybody!
> I'm having problems with lowering pH in my planted aqua.
> I've tested my pH in tap water and it's 6.4 but in my tank it's 7.6 and for my fish it's too high, I'm looking for something around 7.0
> 
> ...


I can't really help you, you should start your own thread.
All I know is that high KH makes changing pH very difficult, you should try and figure our how to lower KH and pH will follow. There might be something hardening water in your tank (shells/rocks).


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## ladayen (Jun 21, 2011)

If you're tap is 6.4 what in your tank is causing the PH jump in the tank? I would find that out rather then try and fight against it.


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