# Tetras with White Spot Disease? Please help!



## Nastenka

Hi everyone!

I'm a new fish owner and hence have so many questions right now that it scares me! Let me give you some background first. I have a 63litre tank to which I added my first fish on October the 30th (2 cardinal tetras, a bronze catfish, 3 guppies (2 males and 1 female, I now know this is a terrible ratio but the dudes at the fish store didn't tell me!) and 1 cherry barb). Since then I've been doing regular water changes (once a week or a little more frequently), changing about 15% of the water with a syphon (to get rid of all the crap from the bottom of the tank). I've been doing regular water tests and have had good results for two weeks now. I think the cycle has been established and the water is now safe for the fish. 

So on Friday (the 4th) I went to one of my local fish stores (this is actually a chain pet store called "Pets at Home" in the UK" and picked out five new fishy friends to bring home - 2 female guppies (to help out my poor single female who is being continuosly pestered by the boys), 1 albino catfish, 1 black neon tetra and 1 dayglow tetra. I also got a load of new plants (the ones I had before that mostly died!). Everything was fine and they were all very happy and getting along. But just now (Saturday night, about 20 hours after they've been introduced into the tank) I noticed that the two new tetras (the black neon and the dayglow) seem to have some white spots on them, which weren't there before. They're very small - the black neon has two (one on top of his head and one on the bottom fin) and the dayglow has quite a few more all over her fins. They almost look as if they're stuck on, I at first thought they could possibly be grains of sand (I have sand as my substrate, not gravel). But I think that's just wishful thinking! I think you can just about make it out on the pic if you try hard enough. I haven't really spotted any other symptoms yet - like different swimming patterns, or fins getting stuck together, or flashing (though I don't know what that means!).

Resized to 78% (was 1024 x 858) - Click image to enlarge










Anyways, I'm pretty sure it's the white spot disease. But my question is I'm not sure how to treat it. Everywhere seems to suggest something called "Quickcure", but I've read on some places that it may be too strong for tetras (and cat fish, actually). Also diluting salt, but again I don't think it's so good for the species I have from what I've read. I also have baby guppies in my tank (separated in a net from the adults for now) and am worried about how the whole disease/treatment will affect them. Can you please suggest what I could do? What treatment to use, how often, etc?

I think the parasites must be at the point in the cycle where they haven't broken and fallen to the bottom of the tank yet (I've been reading up!), so that means a good time to treat them should be about now, in anticipation for them to break out? My water temperature is at about 26 degrees C (I think raising it to about 27 should help with the treatment? How much is the highest I can raise to for my species?). I really don't want this to infect my other fish! They (and I!) have been doing so well! Please help. 

Is it better to separate these two from the others before the parasites fall off them? I don't have another tank though (and unfortunately can't afford another one) so it'd have to be putting them in a jar without filters/heaters or something like that!!!

I'd really appreciate some advice on this as soon as anyone can answer. I'm very worried









Thank you guys!!

Oh, I should also mention that the black neon and the dayglow came from separate tanks, not from the same one.


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## MoneyMitch

this definatley looks like ich very common problem in aquariums. most likely the new additions brought it home with them and the added stress of the move just made it more apparent. there are many links on here on how to treat, i do want to tell you that your going to need to treat for Atleast 30days if you use chems since the lifecycle of ich is 30 days and they are only able to be killed at a certain life stage. over the next few days try and raise the temp up to about 81-83 to speed up the lifecycle of the ich as you medicate. treat three days and do a 50% change and repeat for 30 days. no biggie here bro its going to be well.

EDIT: uhm just read you had little ones in there hmmm..... i would get a sponge filter and like a 3 gallon Q tank for the "healthy" fish while you treat the main tank since ich can live in the filter substrate and any surfaces. a nice dilution of salt would also help or even a "salt dip" for the larger more infected fish. feel free to send a pm if you need more help ill be on for a lil bit.


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## Nastenka

Hey Money 

Thanks for the reply! Since the 2 with the spots haven't been in the tank for very long (just over 24 hours) and I only noticed the spots on them this evening (they definitely weren't there yesterday or in the morning) do you think it's worth taking out the 2 and putting them somewhere else? Like I say, I don't have a 2nd tank as I'm a complete newbie (and a student, so fairly broke after purchasing the last tank!) so it'd literally have to be putting them in some sort of tupaware. Maybe I should take them back to the shop?

Do you reckon the ich hasn't spread yet since they have the white spots on them and I only just noticed them? Or do they not all disappear/fall off at once? 

If I'm to do a salt treatment how much salt do I need to add (considering the babies too, I guess)? 

This sucks! Aaaaah! Why?! 

Thanks for your help!


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## stephanieleah

i bought a $10 critter carrier (those plastic things for small animals) and a $12 air pump/filter combo and those are what i use for my quarantine tank. they work great for short term (i've only had my BN pleco in there and he doesn't mind the cooler water)


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## jeaninel

You will need to treat the entire tank. Even though some fish do not show signs yet, they may be infected. You can use the Quick Cure at half strength since you have tetras and cories. Also, be sure to do a gravel vacuuming about every three days or so during treatment to reduce the number of tomites in the gravel. Continue to treat the fish every day for about 7 days after the spots have disappeared to be sure you have rid the tank of it. Good luck and I hope your fish recover well.


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## Nastenka

Hi everyone. Thank you for your replies!

I have a few more questions about the treatment with salt - do you know what kind of concentrations I should be using for my tetras, catfish (are they what you guys call cories by the way?  See you how new I am?!) and babies? I was thinking of going to the pet store and getting two littlet tanks with filters/heaters if they're not too expensive - one for the sick tetras and one for the babies. I could then treat the main tank and the little tetra one? Should I stick to some medical treatment or is salt best?

Also for these new tanks - is it okay for them to not have a light or plants? Is it better to not have any substrate (that's what I've heard about hospital tanks etc)? And should I get some sort of aeration stone?

I think I may have noticed a few spots on some of the others  It seems like that's too quick a cycle since Friday though! Do you think the new tetras definitely brought it with them?

Thank you everyone!


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## jeaninel

Nastenka said:


> Hi everyone. Thank you for your replies!
> 
> I have a few more questions about the treatment with salt - do you know what kind of concentrations I should be using for my tetras, catfish (are they what you guys call cories by the way?  See you how new I am?!) and babies? I was thinking of going to the pet store and getting two littlet tanks with filters/heaters if they're not too expensive - one for the sick tetras and one for the babies. I could then treat the main tank and the little tetra one? Should I stick to some medical treatment or is salt best?
> 
> Also for these new tanks - is it okay for them to not have a light or plants? Is it better to not have any substrate (that's what I've heard about hospital tanks etc)? And should I get some sort of aeration stone?
> 
> I think I may have noticed a few spots on some of the others  It seems like that's too quick a cycle since Friday though! Do you think the new tetras definitely brought it with them?
> 
> Thank you everyone!


I have not treated for ick with salt so I can't help you there. Some of the other members have and maybe they will chime in with advice on how much to use. You can also google it as there's lots of info on treating ick. 

If you can swing it financially getting the other tanks is a good idea. Keep one for a hospital/quarantine tank and the other for the babies. You don't need a light or substrate in them. An airstone is a good idea in the hospital tank as higher heat/meds may reduce the oxygen content in the water so more aeration is important.

It's more than likely that the new fish brought in the ick. That's why it's important to quarantine new fish for at least two weeks before introducing them into the main tank. I usually QT for 3 weeks as most issues that I've had show up have come around the 2 week mark. If problems do show up I treat and then the clock "resets" and start 3 week QT all over again. There's been times I've had fish in QT for up to 6 weeks because issues came up I had to treat for. Once treatment ended and the fish were all well then the 3 week QT period started all over again just to be sure there was no reoccurence. 

Oh, and the catfish you had called a Bronze catfish I assumed was the Bronze Corydoras (corydoras aeneus). Does yours look like this Bronze corydoras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## aunt kymmie

I agree with Jeaninel's first post on this thread as far as treating ich. It's the way I treated my tank, successfully. I used Kordon's Rid-Ich+ at half strength. I'm of the opinion that your cories won't appreciate or do well with the salt. I first tried using the salt/higher temp treatment and it didn't make a dent in treating the ich and my fish started suffering. I ended up resorting to meds and I'm glad I did. Just my 2 cents.


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## Nastenka

Hi again!

Thank you for the replies. Yes, I've heard from many people now that salt isn't the best idea for the occupants of my tanks (and yes, by the way Jeaninel - that is the catfish I have, just didn't know its full name! Corries make sense now, woo! ). 

As soon as I got to my LFS they said that they noticed white spot in the two tanks which my tetras came from on Saturday also (the same day as I did), so the ich did in fact come from the new occupants (which is good to know in a way, it's good that it's not the conditions in my water etc). I now know that I should quarrantine the little things before I let them out into the main tank, but I didn't know that before.

I haven't got the two extra little tanks yet as the LFS told me I'd need to treat the whole tank, including the babies, just in case it's already managed to spread. They said the treatment should be fine for everyone in there. It's Interpret Anti White Spot 6. They told me to use 1 pitppete (it's either 1 ml or 5 ml in there, I can't quite remember) per 10 litres, and as I have a 63 litre tank I thought something like 5.5 pipettes to take the dose down to safety for the cories and the babies. Does that sound about right? They said to do it on the 1st and 4th days, whithout any water changes until day 7. The carbon has to be removed from the filter whilst this is happening (is it just the carbon one? I also have a pre-filter wool, which should be fine, a nitrate remover sponge (it's green) and a blue one (which I presume is just biological, but I'm not sure), and replaced again on the 7th day, when I should also do a water change. Does that sound okay to everyone?

But I am planning on getting a quarrantine tank set up at some point - so I'll just need a little tank, a heater, filter and an air stone in it? Is it a good idea to have a plant too?

Can I ask you guys another question please - about the amount of fish I have in my tank. It's 63 litres (30cm x 30cm x 60cm, or something very close to that). I currently have (just to remind you, so that it's right here instead of scrolling up) 2 male guppies, 3 female guppies, 2 cories, 2 cardinal tetras, 1 black neon tetra, 1 glowlight tetra, 1 cherry barb (and the guppy fry, but I'd like to give them to the LFS when they're old enough if they'll have them). So 12 in total. I seem to remember a rule about an inch of fish per gallon (I think 63 litres is 16.6 US gallons?), and it varying slightly depending on the size of the fish (you could fit more tetras in, for example). My LFS (and another one nearby) have told me I can have up to 20. I think that's too many but thought maybe around 15 is okay? What do you think?

Thanks for all your advice, everyone! It's great to have these forums - they're a lot of help to newbies.


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## MoneyMitch

i wouldnt trust a lfs that sells you sick fish and then pushes you to buy more from them to treat it they should take the sick fish back pay and pay for your meds to treat your main and then reimburse you for any fish you might lose.... anyways stocking depends on how often you do your w/c and how much filtration you have you can stuff 40 fish in there and be fine as long as the fish can turn around. you would just have to do like 50-75% w/c everyday and have atleast 10x filtration.


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## jeaninel

Yes, you want to remove the carbon from your filter so that the meds will be more effective . The other media can stay. 

It's a good idea to have a few plants or rocks/cave in the QT tank to reduce stress on the fish. They'll feel more comfortable if they have hiding places.

As far as your stocking, I think you are near your limit given that your guppies will be increasing your population. Most fry will get eaten but some will survive. The cories and tetras are schooling fish and should be kept in groups of at least 6 but you would need a larger tank if you were to increase those groups.

Sorry Money, I don't agree that you can stuff 40 fish in a 16 gallon tank just because you have good filtration and do lots of water changes.;-) Granted, these fish are all smaller and will stay around 2" but I think overcrowding them would cause more health problems.


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## Fishin Pole

+1 Jeaniinel............40 fish in a 16 gallon is overcrowded, no matter what the filtration ratio is.......


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## Nastenka

MoneyMitch said:


> i wouldnt trust a lfs that sells you sick fish and then pushes you to buy more from them to treat it they should take the sick fish back pay and pay for your meds to treat your main and then reimburse you for any fish you might lose.... anyways stocking depends on how often you do your w/c and how much filtration you have you can stuff 40 fish in there and be fine as long as the fish can turn around. you would just have to do like 50-75% w/c everyday and have atleast 10x filtration.


Hey 

Actually, I think the LFS did pretty good once I came to them. They offered to take the fish back to treat but I thought that would be a bit pointless since I have to treat the whole tank now anyways. They also gave me the meds for free, a fish voucher and some food and definitely said they'd replace any fish if I had any deaths (that is not going to happen though, no no no!). The fact that they sold me sick fish isn't great, of course. But to be fair to them they were closed for a while and have just reopened a few weeks ago, so their tanks aren't as established as they would usually be etc. They had a two week period of quarantining (is that a word?!?!) the new fish and saw no signs of infection, until a few days after (when I noticed mine). So that just proves everyone should quarantine for longer! But on the whole I thought they dealt with it all very well 

I think the parasites have fallen off my two tetras now, so this is the stage I'm getting a little worried at because I have to catch the moment that they burst. I did my first dose yesterday - how long does the medicine actually stay in the water for? I'm doing the second dose on Wednesday (*without* a water change - is that right?), but am a bit nervous that maybe not all the parasite cysts would have burst by then. That's why I'm curious to see how long the medication works for (does it just keep going around and around until you put the carbon filter back in?).

I'm so nervous!! Aaaah!


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## Nastenka

jeaninel said:


> Yes, you want to remove the carbon from your filter so that the meds will be more effective . The other media can stay.
> 
> It's a good idea to have a few plants or rocks/cave in the QT tank to reduce stress on the fish. They'll feel more comfortable if they have hiding places.
> 
> As far as your stocking, I think you are near your limit given that your guppies will be increasing your population. Most fry will get eaten but some will survive. The cories and tetras are schooling fish and should be kept in groups of at least 6 but you would need a larger tank if you were to increase those groups.
> 
> Sorry Money, I don't agree that you can stuff 40 fish in a 16 gallon tank just because you have good filtration and do lots of water changes.;-) Granted, these fish are all smaller and will stay around 2" but I think overcrowding them would cause more health problems.


Thank you for your reply again! I also think 40 fisharoos in a 16 gallon tank sounds a bit extreme, but I appreaciate everyone's advice none the less 

I'm glad that I'm not overstocked yet, and I'll keep it that way. I still really wish my LFS told me I didn't need to get female guppies! But I'd feel bad giving them up, they're my babies now 

I started the treatment yesterday. I'm supposed to do it on the 1st and the 4th day, but not sure if that will get anything. I was told to not do any water changes in between those days until the 7th day. Could you please advise (for more details please see the reply to Money's post)? 

Thank you all!


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## jeaninel

I'm not familiar with the brand of medicine you're using. I've only used Quick Cure (malachite green and formalin) before which is dosed every day during treatment. Yours may be a different type of med so just follow the instructions and you should be ok.


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## Nastenka

jeaninel said:


> I'm not familiar with the brand of medicine you're using. I've only used Quick Cure (malachite green and formalin) before which is dosed every day during treatment. Yours may be a different type of med so just follow the instructions and you should be ok.


I think Interpet Anti White Spot 6 is essentially also malachite green and formalin (from what I know), but maybe in slightly different proportions to other meds, I'm not sure. The instructions only tell me to do it twice (on the 1st and 4th day), but that doesn't seem like enough to me... The spots have fallen off now, so they should be coming to the free swimming stage in 5 days max (my temperature is somewhere between 27 and 28 degrees) and I'm doing the next treatment on Wednesday. It seems like I should do more than just 2. But I think I should probably do water changes before adding the next lot of treatment, even for the 2nd one (though I was told not to)?

Thank you


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## 1077

Always best to follow directions on the medications if one want's the best possible chance of fish recovering. I would disregard any information that was different than that stated in directions for medications. Just my two cents.


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