# Honey Gourami



## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

Need some further insight please. I am still having problems with Hope the Honey Gourami. She has gone from sitting on the bottom and leaning up against things to rocking when she sits and moves her side fins and feelers. Sitting she would frequently be at an upward diagonal. She lost most of her color. The top of the head was kind of bluish-grey and lower head orangish and then progressively paler to her tail. She rarely was seens eating and only moved when the other one picked on her and chased her, sometimes she swam well and other time she didn't. She always had the strength to get to the other side as I would come back into the room and she would be sitting on the other side. At times I couldn't see any gill movement. 

Well this week she has only progressed as far at still sitting in the bottom but not rocking but occasionally I couldn't see gill movement and wondered if she was going to be a floater.. She doesn't sit at an angle anymore (so far) She still for the most part moves only when chased and seems to be in control of her swimming. She has two favorite places to sit and I never see her anywhere else. In the last week Thursday was the first time I saw her eat but she didn't surface she pecked at the bottom a couple of times. Her color has halfway return but this seems to vary from day to day. I have put in a couple of shrimp pellets to help entise since she won't surface to eat hoping this would help get her to eat. 

This week her top fin and tail fin have turned a grey wash-black wash color. She doesn't seem to be withering away form lack of food. 

The only other changes I have seen in the tank are green algae on the sponge filter tube and sponge itself and on a couple pieces of gravel (completely passed over the brown algae). I think this has come about because the incandescent lighting I had. I changed over to flourescent on Monday. Temp is now regulated since lighting change. Also my Red Luwigia in this tank has developed something white on some of its leaves. It looks like the fine dust created by baby powder. 

I have been changing the water 10% every night increasing in the last week to 25% only missing a couple nights. Tank is still cycling.Params have gone 

From PH 8-8.1 ammonia 1, nitrite .25, nitrate 0 
TO PH 8.1, ammonia 0. nitrite .5, nitrate .25
temp 75 

The other one is thriving. The weak one is starting to show signs of abuse from the other. There are a couple places very slightly damaged on her tail and looks like she has been nipped at a couple of times on the side of her face. I have seen the other one go after her face and chase her.


Is there something else going on that I'm missing? 
Sorry to be so long but I didn't want to leave anything possibly important out.

Thanks


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Your water parameters is the culprit. Nitrites is quite toxic. I'd suggest doing water changes until nitrites is zero. Your honey gourami may be suffering from nitrite poisoning.


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## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

*honey gourami*

I just don't get why it is affecting one of them so drastically and not the other. I guess it's just like people? Some people are more senitive than others. The other is doing great. Great color, typical gourami behavior, eats well, helps me clean the tank. He has gotten so he cleans my some part of my hand when I'm in the tank and will skim the top picking at the plant parts I knocked loose.


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## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

*honey gourami*

Would it be safe to do a 50% water change when the tank is cycling?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: honey gourami*



Sadie said:


> I just don't get why it is affecting one of them so drastically and not the other. I guess it's just like people? Some people are more senitive than others. The other is doing great. Great color, typical gourami behavior, eats well, helps me clean the tank. He has gotten so he cleans my some part of my hand when I'm in the tank and will skim the top picking at the plant parts I knocked loose.


You got it right. Some fish are more sensitive than others despite being the same members of their species. A 50% water change shouldn't hurt.


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## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

*Honey Gouramis*

Thank you Blue


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## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

*Honey Gouramis*

Hoping to follow up. Yesterday after 50% change Hope seemed a little shocked and was less responsive. This evening I noticed she actually has a patch of her true color coming through on her very lower body. Tonight after another 50% she immediately showed a little bit of interest in what was going on. She actually made a couple of passes across the front of the tank and took a couple of seconds to stop and look at me, take some water through from the top and continue across and took the long way back to her corner.

How long can I get away with 50% changes without damaging the cycling process too much? I think if I can get a couple more in she will how more improvement.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

water changes dont really harm the cycling process as the fish will produce waste no matter what. DO 50% water changes if the levels get too high, if they are high but doesnt seem to be causing too much damage, (.25-.5) then do 10-15% water changes daily. When i cycled i did almost daily 50% water changes and there was nothing wrong, just took a while for the ammonia to go down but i had no fish casualties and the whole process took me a month and a half.


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## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

*Honey Gouramis*

Tank has finally cycled! Hope has shown gradually improvement over the past week but still is not active. She shows some interest when I am cleaning the tank. SHe helps by cleaning the underside of her favorite plant. I fear her color damage maybe permanent. SHe has gained some color back on the lower quarter of her body and her over color has brightened a bit under the grey. I don't think she will have a long life. The other one still dogs her every time she tries to surface or shows any interest in swimming outside of her corner. 

This morning though, I thought I was going to have to take her on an Arctic cruise, she was laying angled on her side again. I checked on her throughout the day and she has just kind of been sitting really still with little gill movement. When she was feeling better she at least moved her side fins and feelers (going to have to look up what these are really called) but there is none of that action going on today. SHe is very much in control of her swimming when chased, so I I don't know what to do, any suggestions at this point? She has been picking at the gravel in her corner over the past week but has shown no interest in foraging today. If she is laying on her side again tomorrow she will probably take an Arctic Cruise tomorrow night, I can't take it seeing her like that anymore. I often wonder is she was injured when I got her and maybe activity is uncomfortable? The bag also didn't stay inflated so maybe she suffered other trauma? Or maybe she just suffered damage from the water params period. I thought we were out of the woods. 

Any other suggestions>


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## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

*Honey Gouramis*

Oops forgot to list new params.... Ta da
Ph 8.1, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 2.5
How bout that?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: Honey Gouramis*



Sadie said:


> Oops forgot to list new params.... Ta da
> Ph 8.1, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 2.5
> How bout that?


Nothing wrong with that except low nitrates. At least, you got the ammonia and nitrites to zero.


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## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

*HOney Gourami*

Okay, I give.. Where abouts should the nitrates be?? I have looked in several resources and I have several books and I can't find a guide number. I have done 50% changes in this tank for 4 or 5 days to get the other levels down. I know it can depend on circumstances. The only thing I have found in relative stone is that 40 is too high and at that level is very toxic. My other tank hovers around 10 but today was 5 but I have been changing the tank every day pretty much with treatment for ick for almost 2 weeks.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: HOney Gourami*



Sadie said:


> Okay, I give.. Where abouts should the nitrates be?? I have looked in several resources and I have several books and I can't find a guide number. I have done 50% changes in this tank for 4 or 5 days to get the other levels down. I know it can depend on circumstances. The only thing I have found in relative stone is that 40 is too high and at that level is very toxic. My other tank hovers around 10 but today was 5 but I have been changing the tank every day pretty much with treatment for ick for almost 2 weeks.


For most fish, anything below 40 is acceptable with below 30 even better, with other fish you need below 20


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## Sadie (Jan 21, 2007)

Hope finally made a decision on her own whether to live or die..... 
......drum roll.....

She decided to live  

Yesterday she surfaced to get in on the evening meal and I saw her swim briefly around the tank a few times. Today she has gone all out in the eating department. I have gone and checked on them several times this morning and evening around work as I put in a couple African frogs yesterday and when I stop and look in she looks back and has surfaced and shown some actual Gourami behavior. I put in some baby krill tonight and talk about get out of her way! Her color has improved even more but I still don't see any signs of the grey wash look going away. I am planning on doing some rearranging, I think a lot of her problem now is the other one. He has become very territorial and well..basically the whole tank is his...


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