# How many fish?



## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I just added a 15 gallon sump to my 46 gallon tank. I was wondering if this extra 15 gallons factors in the amount of fish I can keep. I have seven now: 6 line wrasse, two percula clowns, a hippo tang, a fire goby, a polaris goby and a bangaii cardinal. This is the maximum amount of fish I would like to keep, but before the sump, I felt like I had too many fish for 46 gallons.

I also have LPS corals and softies in the tank, along with snails, crabs and starfish. I am adding a peppermint shrimp and a cleaner this weekend.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


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## dallops_of_polyps (Feb 19, 2008)

all the sump does is lowers the nitrates which can help if you had a lot of fish because the more filtration you have the more fish you can house BUT you already have a lot of fish in your tank i would just add another bengai because they hate to be alone.


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## dallops_of_polyps (Feb 19, 2008)

missed this a hippo tang needs atleast 70 gallon WHAT ARE YOU THINKING jk lol:lol:....but seriously its too big


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## karaim (Aug 28, 2008)

I second the Hippo Tang sentiment. Even 70 gallons is too small. Full size Tang needs a 6 foot tank.


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## rugie (Dec 28, 2008)

wake, your total water column with sump would be 61 gal, for all practical reasoning your tank is 61 gal, however you do not have 61 gal of space in the main tank, this alone will limit your inhabatent capacity. better understocked than overstocked the animals will increase in size.


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## rugie (Dec 28, 2008)

housing more fish because you have increased filtration is not sound reasoning. what do you do in a power outage, filter, powerhead breakdown, overheating in summer, automatic heater failure,resession of your bio's for any number of reasons, etc. be prudent, you will enjoy it more.


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Agreed. What you are looking at as to bioload is the main tank, and that all depends on what you can put in it. Sure, you have 60 gallons of volume. But that is not equal to a 60G dispaly tank.

And the Hippo really needs to go soon. I wouldn't ever put one in a tank less than 125G. 

The only "ok" time to add more fish than normal is if you have an all or mostly SPS system.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

im going to jump on the tang band wagon as it is to big for your tank and not to mention tangs carry a big bioload.

getting 2 more shrimp is only going to add to the bioload

same with the bangaii, but if you do buy a bangaii please buy tank raised ( or any fish you buy that you can get tank raised ) as they are being over harvested from their natural enviroments.

i personally would see if i could trade the hippo in at a LFS for store credit


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

HA! I have been trying to catch that tang for at least two months! It's been nothing short of impossible! If someone can catch him, please do. I would also like to get the fire goby out ot there. As soon as these guys see the net, they are off and hiding!!! 

My question wasn't "Can I add Fish?", it was "Does adding a sump relieve some of the bioload?" 

I understand that I am at my max with fish. I would like to add another invert or two for cleanup around the tank. Of course this wouldn't be possible unless I get rid of the tang, and possibly the fire goby...


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

unfortunatly this usually means taking out some rock.

but dont loose all hope you could always put the net in the tank during feeding time and hopefully eventually get used to the net and think they are getting fed but the immidiate result would be removing some live rock


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

It seems to me that disrupting the enviroment (moving rocks) always ends up in someone's fate. I have lost a nice sponge crab, a fire shrimp, two cleaners and two peppermints trying to move rocks and chase this tang. (These were all at different times of course)

It is highly improbable that I could remove over 50 lbs of rock to catch these fish. I also try netting during feeding time, but that tang knows all to well what a net is...


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## rugie (Dec 28, 2008)

yes! it will relieve some of the biolload as I stated in my previous reply. ie; your total water volumn is your tank capacity plus the capacity of the sump. your tank and sump is like having a larger tank. however you are still limited on population because of the available space in the tank proper.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

if you have killed so many things moving rocks maybe you should be more careful whenever you do it. ive done a number of moves of my rock and havnt lost anything yet. it takes alittle longer but nothing perishes in the process.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Yeh, it's mostly those sensitive shrimp that die when I move the rocks. The part-time kid at the LFS has the same problem. I can imagine that moving the rocks probably screws with the PH of the water, or changes the chemistry of the water enough to harm those little shrimp.

The bottom line is, if I catch him, I will release him. He's small now, so I have some time.


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## karaim (Aug 28, 2008)

wake49 said:


> Yeh, it's mostly those sensitive shrimp that die when I move the rocks. The part-time kid at the LFS has the same problem. I can imagine that moving the rocks probably screws with the PH of the water, or changes the chemistry of the water enough to harm those little shrimp.
> 
> The bottom line is, if I catch him, I will release him. He's small now, so I have some time.


I don't think moving rocks has any effect on water chemistry.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I am under the impression that disturbing the Sand Bed releases the toxins converted in the nitrogen process. Most of my rocks are buried under the sand bed, with the bases almost touching the bottom of the tank.

And its not like I'm squashing these poor little suckers, they just die after I disturb the tank. I probably stirred up some surface detritus and settlement. 

But you guys MUST be right...It's probably just a coincidence that those sensitive little shrimp kick the bucket after I stir up the tank moving rocks and disturbing sand and what not.

thanks.

p.s. - my original question, "how mahy fish?" was asking if installing a sump relieved some of the bioload. This topic got of course and I have yet to recieve a solid answer.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

you are not going to get a solid answer of how many fish. 

saltwater is compeletely different from freshwater as there are more factors. first of all it comes down to what kind of fish, then factor in territories, compatibility, swimming room, less oxygen content then freshwater, so you cant get a concrete answer to how many fish you can keep. a sump will just increase water volume and dilute pollutants, it will not increase the swimming room you have available in the main display (you should also consider - room for the live rock) i would say its better to be understocked then overstocked, the less of a bio-load you have the cleaner your water will be for corals to thrive.

i believe you said you have a 46 gallon with a 15 gallon sump? 
well i have a 46 gallon bowfront and 45 gallon sump at the momment and have 2 clowns,1 orange spotted goby with a pistol shrimp and 1 yellow sleeper goby, when i go to the 80 ill prob add a yellow tang and MAYBE a yellow headed jawfish but thats down the road.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

In a typical marine aquarium which relies on a DSB, live rock, and a protein skimmer, the bioload rarely becomes an issues, sump or not. The territorial behaviors of the fish and corals will determine your ability to add additional livestock.

So, if you think the behaviors of the animals in your tank will allow for additional livestock, then go for it. 

The simple answer to your question is YES, your tank can handle more bioload. But this is a technicality because bioload is almost never an issue to begin with.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Thanks Mark, and to all that have replied. I have a DSB both in the display and the sump, and I run a Seaclone 100 skimmer in the sump. I see no territorial issues with the inhabitants.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Then, if you do not believe territorial behaviors to be an issue, you could probably add another fish. Unfortunately, using this logic, you would continue to add fish until an issue developed. I would find a nice comfortable stocking level that is pleasing to the eye and then stop.

For example, my 37 gallon reef has a Coral Beauty Angel, 2 Perc Clowns, 1 Six Line Wrasee, and 1 Cleaner Wrasee. I could probably add more, but the aquarium looks fabulous and colorful, so why take any chances with an established pecking order?


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Thank you. I am actually happy myself with the way the aquarium looks and will probably not add another fish. I will probably add some peppermints; i am starting to see aptasia, and probably more crabs for cleanup.


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