# jewel rio 180



## mnemikeevans (Feb 6, 2011)

jewel rio- 8 neons, 2 gouramis, 4 topedo barbs, 2 golden dojos, 2 clown loach, 1 gold nugget pleco, 2 synadontis pectracola and 4 kuhli loach. any views on that?


----------



## Gino Hardial Singh (Jan 19, 2011)

Hi There
The Rio 180 is a good choice. I have the Vision 260 and although the bow front looks good - its not as good as your good old rectangle because of the surface area.
It seems like you have a nice set of fish from all over the world together and they are mostly all exotic! The barbs are from India, the Golden Dojos are from South East Asia, Neons and the Gold Nugget from the Amazon, Synadontis from Africa and the Kulhlis from Indonesia. All are warm water fishes so if you have cold weather its best to get a heater. It seems to me that the PH for this tank needs to be between 6 and 7 which works for most tropical fishes. 
If yours is a planted tank, the Kulhli's might burrow into the sand and this may cause a problem. Depends on your set up.
The Red Lined Torpedo Barbs are gorgeous - also known as Miss Kerela. You have to be careful with these. I had one and killed it because of a really silly move in the early days. The reason was this:-

I did regular 50% water changes once every week - tank was a little overstocked- my Juwel 600. The mistake was that on a particular day I changed about 70% and this is what messed things up. Never never have an irregular regimen when doing water changes. The Torpedo barb is especially sensitive. What did he do? He simply literally torpedoed his head into the sand and killed himself. I was very very sad. He was a beautiful specimen and was perfectly healthy.

The trick is to do two smaller water changes every 4 days instead of doing one large change every week. This is perfect for the fish as well as the good bacteria in the tank.

Not counting the tetras - you have 15 decent sized fish in your tank. I think this is a good figure. Knowing me I would probably add another 5 or 10 more but its okay as long as you do regular partial water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrates levels low. However, some of the fish you have got in there can grow pretty big - as long as they are small now, you have some leeway.

I would recommend adding an Adonis Pleco and maybe 6 to 8 Rams to the tank. Rummy nose Tetras are also nice schooling fish. Consider adding a Dwarf puffer to control the snail population if you have a heavily planted tank. Don't worry too much about the fin nipping. I have one in my 60 litre tank and she's just occasionally naughty not causing any major issues. They are really cute - but 1 is enough!

I hope this helps. Enjoy.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Mnemikeevans, welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.

Now, there are some issues with your community. Starting with the individual species, clown loaches must be kept in a group of at least 5, but given that they will attain 8 inches fairly quickly and can exceed 12 inches, a 180 litre/50 gallon aquarium is much too small for this fish. More info can be found in our fish profile section, you can click on the name when it is shaded to see that fish's profile, example Clown Loach.

The dojo loach also attains 12 inches, and may be inclined to eat small fish (such as neons, kuhli loach). It can be kept singly, or in small groups, but requires at least a 48-inch tank. This species is not truly tropical, and needs lower temperatures long-term to be healthy. It should not be maintained with warm-water tropicals such as the clown loach, gold nugget pleco and gourami.

The Gold Nugget Plecostomus is warm water, 77F or higher. Although smaller than the common pleco, it still reaches over 7 inches and requires a 48-inch tank. It is usually aggressive with any benthic (bottom) fish, so tankmates should be upper water species.

Torpedo barb are shoaling fish, thus requiring a group of 8 or more or they can become quite aggressive. Also cooler water, these would be a good match with the dojo loach, but in a much larger tank. Attaining 6 inches, a group would need at least a 4-foot tank, preferably a 5-6 foot tank, as they like swimming space. They will eat smaller fish. This species is in our profiles under the common name Denisons Barb, click on the name for more info.

You don't say what gourami species, some need a pair if two, some need a group. Most are in the profiles so you can check the species there.

Neons would be fine, but not with many of the other fish.

As you are a new member and I don't know your level of knowledge, allow me to briefly explain why the above is so critical. Fish not maintained in a suitable environment--which means numbers of the species, water parameters, tankmates, tank size--will be stressed. Stress weakens the immune system and causes health problems that would not otherwise be likely to occur. Premature death (before its normal lifespan) is usually the result. And the fish is simply not "happy." Shoaling fish feel security with more of their own, and they often have a pecking order within the group which is natural, and when missing the fish can be severely stressed. Heightened aggression to other fish, even from otherwise peaceful fish, often occurs when the fish is not kept in a sufficiently-sized group. The clown loach is a perfect example of this; loaches are highly social animals, and there is a distinct inter-relationship within the group.

Byron.


----------



## Gino Hardial Singh (Jan 19, 2011)

Hi Byron

What do you think of 6 almost adult Discus' and 6 Juveniles in a 260 litre tank? Do you think I can add more and how many?

G


----------



## sik80 (Mar 16, 2010)

There's quite a lot of contradictory advice in those first 2 posts, so I'd like to suggest you only listen to what Byron has said! (adding 8 rams and a dwarf puffer is a terrible idea in my opinion!)


----------



## Gino Hardial Singh (Jan 19, 2011)

Why is it a bad idea? Rams are small and peaceful and they cheer things up a bit. The Dwarf Puffer is harmless. I have one in one of my smaller tanks with a pair of angels/4 rams/2 danios/2 rasboras/4 Panda Garras and a Cory.


----------



## sik80 (Mar 16, 2010)

rams are definately not peaceful. I have 2 male bolivian rams in my rio 180 and they fight each other regualrly. From what people say on here, they also become more aggressive when breeding, so 8 in that space would be asking for trouble. The fish profile for the bolivian ram on this site advises 20 gallons for one fish, 2 fish in a 36 inch tank; 3+ in 48-inch tank and 15-20g for a pair of blue rams

My LFS and everything i've ever read about dwarf pufferes advises keeping them in a species only tank


----------



## Gino Hardial Singh (Jan 19, 2011)

Right. Well to each their own.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Gino Hardial Singh said:


> Hi Byron
> 
> What do you think of 6 almost adult Discus' and 6 Juveniles in a 260 litre tank? Do you think I can add more and how many?
> 
> G


Six discus on their own in a 260 litre (roughly 70 gallon) tank is absolutely the max for that tank. I would prefer a 90g for these, then you could add some other "dither" fish which would settle the discus more. Some peaceful catfish for the substrate, Corydoras sterbai are ideal as they can tolerate the necessary higher temperatures for discus; Farlowella vittata, or Rineloricaria, or one of the smaller pleco species like the Bushynos. Some peaceful shoaling fish from the characins, one of the Hyphessobrycon species in the Rlosy Tetra clade would also work.

Byron.


----------



## Gino Hardial Singh (Jan 19, 2011)

Mr Sik: (this isnt really for you but for other enthusiasts who need to know what its really all about)

The Bolivian Ram is a very beautiful, small, and peaceful cichlid. Though they are said to be a little more aggressive then their more popular Venezuelan cousin, the Ram Cichlid, these fish can be kept in a community tank with fish of a similar temperament. They are also easier to keep and breed than the Ram Cichlid. They are inexpensive yet give an aquarist the same joys as other dwarf cichlids, and they are much easier to acquire. They have a nice personality too. Associating their owner with food, they will be happy to beg for more whenever you approach the tank.

A community fish, the Bolivian Ram can be kept with non-cichlid fish and other peaceful dwarf cichlids. The Bolivian Ram is 'more bark than bite' and will not do well in an aggressive tank. Providing an environment with rocks, driftwood, and flowerpots for hiding will make them feel comfortable. They will also enjoy several dense plant clusters, but leave some open space for swimming. They can be easy to care for if water changes are performed frequently. If water quality is ignored, as with all cichlids, disease and death can occur. Just a little dedication will reap pleasurable results from this little fish.

Dwarf Puffer:-

Dwarf Puffers are very interesting, intelligent and active fish. They learn to recognize their owner and will come to the glass to see what you're up to whenever you're in the room. They also will beg for food (they even learn what the container looks like) or follow your finger around the glass. If you put your hand in the tank, they will have to be right by it at all times. It's as if they have to know exactly what you're doing! You also have to be careful when siphoning water from the tank, because their curiosity will sometimes lead them a little too close to the siphon tube! I've sucked one up a time or two and had to rescue them from the bucket! These little guys have tons of personality and are by far one of the most fun fish to own 


Since this fish is imported from India, here in the USA most of the time they are very stressed, but are surprisingly hardy fish. These fish are semi-aggressive, and it is best to avoid keeping males together in a small tank. In a larger tank you can have several males, but be sure to create lots of caves and provide enough plants for protection. Males have a brown vertical line on their belly, which can darken and fade. Females do not have this. Bloodworms seem to be their staple diet, but I have seen mine also eat some flakes and sinking pellets. Little pond snails and ghost shrimp are also very good to include in their diet. These fish are fin nippers, so be careful with what you mix with them. I have found that they get along with most community fish without long fins!

Friends:- Its perfectly fine to have 1 Puffer in your Aquarium as long as you have a nice densely planted community tank. Ditto for the Mikrogeophagus ramirezi!!


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

A comment (or two) on the issues raised in the several posts concerning rams and puffers.

I certainly acknowledge that there is often some quite variable opinions around the hobby over many issues, and today with the easy access to the internet one can find all of these being put forth by many people. One has to consider the source of such material in order to weigh its reliability.

The behaviour of a fish is programmed into it by nature, over thousands and even millions of years. Some fish within a particular species may exhibit behaviours that are outside the "normal" for the species. This can occur due to environmental stimuli--very peaceful fish for example can become quite nasty in the wrong environment. And by environment I mean water parameters (hardness, pH, temperature), tank size, aquascaping (something natural to the fish or something foreign to it), numbers of the species, other species unsuitable in the same space, filter currents, and intensity of lighting. All these can and do affect the fish in the aquarium, positively or negatively, depending.

On the rams in particular. There is ample scientific evidence to support the most widely accepted opinions on proper maintenance. Mikrogeophagus ramirezi is territorial. Given sufficient space for the males to establish a reasonable territory in the aquarium, and several may do quite well in that tank. But the smaller the space, the fewer rams can be housed if one is concerned over their health. Stress caused by constantly battling each other takes its toll by weakening the fish's immune system, and this opens the door to various health issues that will lead to a shorter lifespan.

Mikrogeophagus altispinosus (Bolivian Ram) occurs in solitude in its natural habitat. In other words, individual fish far apart, generally interacting only when spawning. To subject a group of these fish to the confines of a small aquarium is, frankly, irresponsible. The stress from this situation is bound to take a toll on the fish.

A 180 litre/48 gallon aquarium that is 3 feet in length will not provide sufficient space for more than 2 males in the case of M. ramirezi, and only one with M. altispinosus. A couple of females with one male would work. But a group of 8 would not.

Byron.


----------



## Gino Hardial Singh (Jan 19, 2011)

Excellently put Byron. Its a combination of water perimeters / environment & the nature of the animal.


----------

