# Fishless Cycle with TSS?



## Flint

I am getting closer and closer to setting up my 75 and am going to try a fishless cycle for the first time. I was considering using TSS again but how on earth would you dose ammonia? TSS won't let the ammonia rise above 1ppm so how would you know when to add more? Is this just not an option? I'm in no rush to cycle but I was just curious. 

I don't want to add the fish right away, TSS or not, so you know, so I will be maintaining the aquarium with ammonia until I add fish. Could be 2 days, could be 2 months. I just don't know at this point in time.

Thank you,
Flint


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## Tazman

You wont need the TSS if you are dosing ammonia, just use pure ammonia, with no scents or anything. 100% pure.

Dose the ammonia to near 5ppm, that way you create a massive amount of bacteria, this is what I did to my tank. Once you start seeing the Nitrites appear, lower the dose to 2-3ppm, this will allow the Nitrates to start showing once the bacteria are there to convert the Nitrites.

Once you start seeing the Nitrites spike, dose again to 5ppm ammonia, you should find that the bacteria are able to convert this all within 24 hours. Once this can be achieved the tank is fully cycled.


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## Flint

I'm aware I won't NEED the TSS and I know how to cycle I was just curious as to how one would go about fishless cycling with TSS.


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## Hallyx

I've been in contact with other members who have cycled fishless using TSS. I've never heard that TSS will not allow ammonia to rise >1.0ppm. Just dose more ammonia until it reaches whatever level you want. 

Tetra says TSS comes with it's own ammonia, that it's just enough of the right kind to keep it alive in the bottle. They make it sound important that you introduce an ammonia source (fish, liquid ammonia) right away. According to people I've talked to, it's not that critical. 

I'd just put in the TSS and dose ammonia up to 4.0ppm or whatever you want. Should be easy to keep it there. I've kept tanks cycled for months with no stock. It's one of the advantages of having pure ammonia around.


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## Flint

This is where I read it, very informative. You should enjoy it. 

From the Q&A with Tetra regarding this product -


> You have to have some ammonia
> occur in the tank to provide the cycle needed, so it will usually create
> levels or reduce levels to around 1.0-1.5 ppm, and they should stay
> there for a week to 14 days, and then come down. Sorry, these levels
> would be for both ammonia and nitrite.


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## Hallyx

Sorry, I can't place much credibility in something as vague, ambiguous and poorly written as that. Is that from the Tetra Q&A from that other forum, the one where they say to dose TSS then hurry to buy some fish to keep it fed? The one that says don't change water for two weeks even if the ammonia rises >1.0ppm? The one that says Prime or other ammonia-lockers will stall the TSS cycle? Yep... that's the one.

That Tetra rep is going to kill somebody's fish with that advice. 

Here's what I think about Tetra. They bought the manufacturing rights to Bio-Spira from Tim Hovanec back in the late '90s. But I don't think they have a deep uiderstanding of how that stuff works. This goes along with the impression I get from the quality of some of their products, including fiters that don't filter, water conditioner which does't treat ammonia, and from their marginally informative website.

I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, but I've talked to enough people who have used TSS in various ways to have at least as good an understanding of how it works in real life as that Tetra rep.


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## Flint

I think I'll just go the old-fashioned pure ammonia route, I was just curious how it would work. I personally never got an ammonia spike higher than 1ppm when I fish-in cycled with it.


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## Hallyx

Flint said:


> I think I'll just go the old-fashioned pure ammonia route, I was just curious how it would work. I personally never got an ammonia spike higher than 1ppm when I fish-in cycled with it.


I agree with you. What's the rush, eh?

I hope you never let ammonia get above 1.0ppm with livestock other than snails in there. In fact, I consider 0.50ppm too high for fish-in. Of course, with the advent of Prime and other ammonia-lockers, there's a lot more flexibility where that's concerned.

But everyone has their own opinion on that.


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## Flint

I allowed it because it was during the period with TSS I was trying to record the results based on the information given by Tetra. It never rose above 1ppm and if it had, I would have aborted the project.


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