# My New Tank



## Talon

hey guys i just started a new salt water 20g tank. The salt lvl is sitting at 1.022-1.024 and all other chemicals are in line ( pH 8.5, N03 is zero as well as N02). i just introduce live rock to my tank on saturday and today (sunday) ive notice alot of little creatures moving about. does anyone have a web page that i could use to identify these creatures. i will post pics soon

thanks for the help


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## onefish2fish

no website, but would GUESS they are copepods and amphipods as well as bristle worms. all are good to have. 

you can google these things and compare them to what you have. other common possiblities are sponges, feather dusters, aptasia, coraline algae..
may not be much help but a good start. 

welcome to the forum.


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## Talon

i just check with the images on yahoo.com. it looks like i have alot aptasia (7-12 of them) all over the rocks. are they good for the tank if i have no corals?


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## teddyzaper

i would personally keep them under control, but they usually don't hurt fish, unless they are fragile fish or fish that sit on rocks. They may hurt your CUC though. You can use lemon juice (squeeze a lemon) to kill them. Put the lemon juice in a turkey baster and squirt just enough to make them shrink.
Again, they are not threatening, but its better to have them under control, and i was always taught to kill them, so its a good habit to get used to.


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## Vfgonzales22

Is it possible that an aptasia can put itself inside of a zoanthid?? i had aiptasia around my zoanthids so i used aiptasia-x to get rid of them and i got a shrimp to help the problem...and it seems like they had gone away but there is this little thing in the middle of my zoa colony that sucks in this white string.....i picked up the coral that my zoas (and the little unknown thing) were on to take a picture to ask if some one could identify it and it released little brown pellets....does anybody have any idea what that is?????


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## Talon

also i wanted to know if i had alot of the requirements for a 20g FOLR tank. right now i have the tank, a dual lighting system with 18k coral light and a marine light. heater rated for a 50g tank. aqua clear 50 which has a 200gph outflow, and 11lbs of live rock.

i still need to get either live sand or crushed corals.

what would u guys pick sand or crushed corals? and do you guys see anything else i should have>?


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## Reefing Madness

Vfgonzales22 said:


> Is it possible that an aptasia can put itself inside of a zoanthid?? i had aiptasia around my zoanthids so i used aiptasia-x to get rid of them and i got a shrimp to help the problem...and it seems like they had gone away but there is this little thing in the middle of my zoa colony that sucks in this white string.....i picked up the coral that my zoas (and the little unknown thing) were on to take a picture to ask if some one could identify it and it released little brown pellets....does anybody have any idea what that is?????


 Zoas will grab food in the water column, might have been something flaoting around that it grabbed, see if you can grab it out of its mouth.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> i just check with the images on yahoo.com. it looks like i have alot aptasia (7-12 of them) all over the rocks. are they good for the tank if i have no corals?


 No, they will overcome the tank no matter what, corals or no corals. If you just put the rock in, take it out and bake it. That'll do the trick.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> No, they will overcome the tank no matter what, corals or no corals. If you just put the rock in, take it out and bake it. That'll do the trick.


 
really? there that dangerous to the tank that they will overgrow everything. well that sucks then i guess i have no choice.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> really? there that dangerous to the tank that they will overgrow everything. well that sucks then i guess i have no choice.


 It depends on which one you really have in there. But yes, they are nasty. Once you get live dusters or polyps growing of any kind, the Aiptasia will sting them.
Aiptasia


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> It depends on which one you really have in there. But yes, they are nasty. Once you get live dusters or polyps growing of any kind, the Aiptasia will sting them.
> Aiptasia


 
k ive made up my mine about killing those little buggers (aiptasia) but i have a question. do they sting humans? ive been trying to look up if they do or not and cant find anything.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> k ive made up my mine about killing those little buggers (aiptasia) but i have a question. do they sting humans? ive been trying to look up if they do or not and cant find anything.


 They do, but you are not ever going to know it. Your to big to notice. So get in there and grab the lil buggers out. :-D


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## Talon

does anyone have any opinions on what substrate i should use. live sand or crushed corals? its going to be a basic tank with a could of clown fish so which should i use? also i just finished building my light fixture but i need to find a way to build a cheap but not ugly light stand to hold it any thoughts on that as well?

thanks for the input. pics coming soon


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## onefish2fish

Talon said:


> does anyone have any opinions on what substrate i should use. live sand or crushed corals? its going to be a basic tank with a could of clown fish so which should i use? also i just finished building my light fixture but i need to find a way to build a cheap but not ugly light stand to hold it any thoughts on that as well?
> 
> thanks for the input. pics coming soon


i suggest sand over crushed coral as the crushed coral ( and even gravel ) will allow debris to fall into the nooks and cracks and allow it to break down over time, causing excess nutrient issues. the sand ( unless its very large size grains ) does not allow this to happen and your water flow will help keep the debris in suspension allowing more time for a skimmer to pull it out.

what kind of lights did you go with?


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## Talon

onefish2fish said:


> i suggest sand over crushed coral as the crushed coral ( and even gravel ) will allow debris to fall into the nooks and cracks and allow it to break down over time, causing excess nutrient issues. the sand ( unless its very large size grains ) does not allow this to happen and your water flow will help keep the debris in suspension allowing more time for a skimmer to pull it out.
> 
> what kind of lights did you go with?


 
thanks for the input on sand and gravel, i have ordered zoo glo 18k coral light, and a marine light that bring out the colours in fish. dont know the exact name of the light but the guy at the fish store spend alot of time talking to me about these lights.


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## Talon

just got the sand in my tank last night. it looks great but i started to notice that there is a white froawth or bubbles strating to appear on the surface near the edges. anyone know what this is?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> just got the sand in my tank last night. it looks great but i started to notice that there is a white froawth or bubbles strating to appear on the surface near the edges. anyone know what this is?


 Yup, its normal. No worries. It will calm down. You could net the junk out.


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## Talon

just got two clowns ( Ocellaris ), they seem to be managing well for the most part picts coming tomorrow!


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## Talon

another question if one of u aquaruim experts could answer for me is how much current should one have per tank size? right now, the tank im using is 20g long, with an aquaclear filter which puts out 200gph. is that two high? low? what is the ratio of tank size per gallion to the amount of water flow per gallion?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> another question if one of u aquaruim experts could answer for me is how much current should one have per tank size? right now, the tank im using is 20g long, with an aquaclear filter which puts out 200gph. is that two high? low? what is the ratio of tank size per gallion to the amount of water flow per gallion?


 Fish only tank you would start the flow rate at 10x the water volume, so your right there. You don't want any dead spots in your tank, you may end up with 2 powerheads, one in each corner, keeps the dead spots down better than just one.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> Fish only tank you would start the flow rate at 10x the water volume, so your right there. You don't want any dead spots in your tank, you may end up with 2 powerheads, one in each corner, keeps the dead spots down better than just one.


 
what if ur doing a reef tank what should the flow rate be then? my tank right now is a FOLR but i want to enventually have a couple of anemones in the tank.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> what if ur doing a reef tank what should the flow rate be then? my tank right now is a FOLR but i want to enventually have a couple of anemones in the tank.


 Anemones aren't a very high flow critter, they like a gentle flow, so you still should be ok. Reef tanks generally go with 20x flow and higher. I use 7600gph in a 240g, and medium flow critter have a hard time when placed in some spots.


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## Talon

hey i got new pics of the tank but it wont let me post them. anyone have any clues on how to do that? their in jpeg format and there bigger than 2mb


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> hey i got new pics of the tank but it wont let me post them. anyone have any clues on how to do that? their in jpeg format and there bigger than 2mb


 Resize the picture.


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## Talon

P9111773 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! - tank without much.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6156760392/sizes/l/in/photostream/ -with the new clown fish.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6156210513/in/photostream - semi finished tank.


i just set up a flickr account so you guys can check out the pics of my tanks enjoy


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## Reefing Madness

Those are the biggest Aiptasia I have ever seen.mg:


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## onefish2fish

Reefing Madness said:


> Those are the biggest Aiptasia I have ever seen.mg:


this.

and nice clowns.


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## Talon

ya im gonna get some peppermint shrimp when i finally get light bulbs. i have another question tho. for fresh water the general rule of thumb is 1 inch of fish for every 2 gallions of tank. what is the rule with salt water and do u have to consider that live rock tanks up a large percentage of the tank?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> ya im gonna get some peppermint shrimp when i finally get light bulbs. i have another question tho. for fresh water the general rule of thumb is 1 inch of fish for every 2 gallions of tank. what is the rule with salt water and do u have to consider that live rock tanks up a large percentage of the tank?


 Peppermint shrimp will not eat those trees, they are to big for even them.
And the rule of thumb for SW is out the window. LR does take up a good portion of the tank, yes. But you have to look at swim room for the fish and how big are they going to get. I have only 7 fish in my 240g tank, and my tank does not look empty by any means. BIG FISH.


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## Talon

thanks for the input about swimming room and size of fish. what would u recommened about the aiptasia, cut them down then have the little shrimp in to eat the leftovers? kinda want to save the rock cause it have alot of other sea life in it. ( claim, starfish, and dozens of little krill like creatures)


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> thanks for the input about swimming room and size of fish. what would u recommened about the aiptasia, cut them down then have the little shrimp in to eat the leftovers? kinda want to save the rock cause it have alot of other sea life in it. ( claim, starfish, and dozens of little krill like creatures)


 Ways to Eliminate Aiptasia Anemones | Chemical and Liquid Solution Injections
Shoot em in the mouth with lemon juice.


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## onefish2fish

Talon said:


> thanks for the input about swimming room and size of fish. what would u recommened about the aiptasia, cut them down then have the little shrimp in to eat the leftovers? kinda want to save the rock cause it have alot of other sea life in it. ( claim, starfish, and dozens of little krill like creatures)


cutting them will spread them, that is if you could even cut them before they retract into the rock.


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## Talon

ok so short of cutting them which sound slike its gonna be impossible because of the way they retract. i'll have to do something like the lemon juice.

side note tho

what type of creatures should i have in a tank like this to keeep it clean. im new to the salt water game so any help would be good. ive heard that turbo snails are good for cleaning stuff in the water. how many of them should i get for a 20g tank and whatelse do you guys think it needs?


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## onefish2fish

Talon said:


> what type of creatures should i have in a tank like this to keeep it clean.


water changes, good feeding patterns....


a good mixture of snails is what i use on my tanks and i like to have a cleaner shrimp (usually cleans large size fish and goes after food scraps, not a tank maid :lol: )

theres not much that should be added to fix problems, just to create another problem. a good example would be adding those peppermint shrimp for aptasia... ( or cats to get rid of a mouse problem ;-) )


if it was a larger tank i would prob. also have a sandsifting cucumber along with my mixture of snails. i am not a fan of crabs, including hermit crabs. i also dont really enjoy mexican turbo snails due to their large size and clumsy driving skills. ( they love to knock over loose frag plugs )


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## Talon

just got the light bulbs in today. gonna have them on the tank by wedsnesday morning. the two lights are power glo 18k light, and a marine glo high output actinic light. both are the T5 HO lights and look cool so far. i'll have a pic of the tank with the new lights on wednesday night. cya till then.


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## Talon

here is the new lighting system with some better shots of the whole tank.

P9201804 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! - clown in the new light

P9201802 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! - Front view of my tank

P9201803 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! - clowns around the live rock

P9201805 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! - photo that my wife took

what do you guys think so far. the chasee is an alluimin eastroff spreay painted black with duck work tape ( not duck tape) to help with reflecting the light back down to the tank

enjoy


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## Talon

also i notice now that the clowns have only stuck to the middle and top lay of water and havnt ventured down. is this normal for clowns cause the one looks like he has a problem with his dive glan.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> also i notice now that the clowns have only stuck to the middle and top lay of water and havnt ventured down. is this normal for clowns cause the one looks like he has a problem with his dive glan.


 Hard to tell.


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## Talon

k my clowns seem to be doing better today. they spent most of the day in the middle of the tank. i have a question tho and i know this could be open to many different answers but what type of anemone should i get for the clowns to live in? any suggestions and why the one u suggest?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> k my clowns seem to be doing better today. they spent most of the day in the middle of the tank. i have a question tho and i know this could be open to many different answers but what type of anemone should i get for the clowns to live in? any suggestions and why the one u suggest?


 Its up to you. Its the coloring that most go after, so you get to choose. RBTA are expensive, so I went with a White LTA. But thats just me. Carpet Nems are really neat and colorful.


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## onefish2fish

i wouldnt get them an anemone, atleast not anytime soon. clowns dont need an anem to live in and infact will host anything they feel safe and comfort in. this goes for, but def. not limited to, corals, rock, powerheads, and again anything in the tank THEY feel comfort in. this may also mean having an anem doesnt mean the clowns will even stay in it and may choose another area of the tank to call their own.
nems require a reef enviroment, which means high lighting and good water params including alk, cal and mag. 

i dont mean to be the downer, and maybe one day a nem will come, but i only suggest waiting longer for your tank to mature, stabalize, and be ready for it.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> Its up to you. Its the coloring that most go after, so you get to choose. RBTA are expensive, so I went with a White LTA. But thats just me. Carpet Nems are really neat and colorful.


 
im new to the salt water world so if you could explain the acronyms that would be great


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## Talon

my tank is stable. the salinity is sitting at 1.022-.024, NO2/3 is 0, pH is at 8.5 and i have hard water which should mean that i have lots of mag and cal. im gonna get a test kit for mag and cal this weekend. the lighting system i have is designed for coral reefs. ( Power GLO 18k coral light and a Marine GLO actinic light). the only thing i dont know about is the cal/mag lvls but i think there high because i use tap water (with chlorine removed from it)


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> my tank is stable. the salinity is sitting at 1.022-.024, NO2/3 is 0, pH is at 8.5 and i have hard water which should mean that i have lots of mag and cal. im gonna get a test kit for mag and cal this weekend. the lighting system i have is designed for coral reefs. ( Power GLO 18k coral light and a Marine GLO actinic light). the only thing i dont know about is the cal/mag lvls but i think there high because i use tap water (with chlorine removed from it)


 Gonna need to be able to check for those things. Also be able to check for phosphates, Anemones don't like those, they like parameter to be perfect.
LTA= Long Tentacle Anemone
RBTA= Rose Bubble TIp Anemone
BTA= Bubble Tip Anemone
GBTA= Green Bubble TIp Anemone
Carpet Anemone
Saltwater Aquarium Invertebrates for Marine Aquariums: Carpet Anemone, Assorted
Saltwater Aquarium Anemones for Marine Reef Aquariums: Long Tentacle Anemone
Saltwater Aquarium Invertebrates for Marine Reef Aquariums: Bulb Anemone
Rose Bulb Anemone
Saltwater Aquarium Invertebrates for Marine Reef Aquariums: Haitian Reef Anemone
Saltwater Aquarium Invertebrates for Marine Reef Aquariums: Condy Anemone


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## Talon

just an update of the tanks progession. water peramitters are still holding NO2/3 is close to zero, pH is at 8.7, salt is at 1.024. also i have some new inhabitants of the tank. the tank now has 5 blue legged hermit crabs, 1 peppermint shrimp, 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 yellow tail damsel, and 1 royal gramma. next thing to get is some turbo snails for the brown algae thats starting to grow.

speaking of algae i think i might be at the beginning of a problem. ive started to notice little green hairlike algae growning on the glass and rocks in very tiny clusters i'll get a pic soon and i really hope its not that. but if it is hair algae is there any fish/inverts i can get to eat it?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> just an update of the tanks progession. water peramitters are still holding NO2/3 is close to zero, pH is at 8.7, salt is at 1.024. also i have some new inhabitants of the tank. the tank now has 5 blue legged hermit crabs, 1 peppermint shrimp, 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 yellow tail damsel, and 1 royal gramma. next thing to get is some turbo snails for the brown algae thats starting to grow.
> 
> speaking of algae i think i might be at the beginning of a problem. ive started to notice little green hairlike algae growning on the glass and rocks in very tiny clusters i'll get a pic soon and i really hope its not that. but if it is hair algae is there any fish/inverts i can get to eat it?


 Sounds like Diatoms, which are common in a new tank, which disappear by themselves. And the other sounds like Hair Algae, which grows because of Phosphates being high. What is the reading? You using RO/DI water?
How To Kill Algae Especially Green Hair Algae In Your Salt Water Fish Tank | Fish Tank Filters


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## Talon

unfortunatly im just using tap water with anti clorhrine it in. i was told this was an easier way of doing it that way i dont have to spend money on ph buffers


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> unfortunatly im just using tap water with anti clorhrine it in. i was told this was an easier way of doing it that way i dont have to spend money on ph buffers


 PH buffers? I don't use any in my tank. ???;-)
Its easier yes. But wait til you see all the crap you grow that isn't pretty to look at. I did it your way for 6 years, and got tired of looking at it, so i switched to RO/DI. Ah man what a difference.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> PH buffers? I don't use any in my tank. ???;-)
> Its easier yes. But wait til you see all the crap you grow that isn't pretty to look at. I did it your way for 6 years, and got tired of looking at it, so i switched to RO/DI. Ah man what a difference.


 
its true i do end up with some ugly brown algae growth due to using tap water. but i cant really afford RO water at the moment and the closest store that carries that water is 3 towns over. maybe later when i get a larger tank i'll try a RO system. question tho and i know this might sound dumb but i cant seem to find any info at any pet stores yet but are fresh water plants transferable to a salt water area or will it kill them?

also does anyone have a good brand of phosphate/calcuim test kit i should buy to get the tank close for corals that i want to get.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> its true i do end up with some ugly brown algae growth due to using tap water. but i cant really afford RO water at the moment and the closest store that carries that water is 3 towns over. maybe later when i get a larger tank i'll try a RO system. question tho and i know this might sound dumb but i cant seem to find any info at any pet stores yet but are fresh water plants transferable to a salt water area or will it kill them?
> 
> also does anyone have a good brand of phosphate/calcuim test kit i should buy to get the tank close for corals that i want to get.


I use API test kits. $100 bucks for a RO/DI. Not all that bad.Only transferable plant that I know of is the Mangrove. Its secretes the salt out of its system via its leaves.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUARIUM-CO...293?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519b2c89b5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150-GPD-6st...all_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item588d3b986d


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## Talon

hey guys just giving a quick update on the tank. i did a water change today and i thought that i had lost some of the blue legged hermit crabs, but apparently they shed there exo-skeleton so thats good news. on a side note tho ive started to see wired little creatures forming on the live rock. there pinkish-clear and tubed like. some of them currel and some are straight but there is no fan at the top of them. also where these creatues are there looks like there is spider webbing around them. ive never seen anything like this before. ill have a pic up in a couple of days.

thanks for the help.


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## Reefing Madness

Microscopy-UK Micscape Microscopy and Microscopes Magazine
Live Rock Hitch Hikers


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> Microscopy-UK Micscape Microscopy and Microscopes Magazine
> Live Rock Hitch Hikers


thanks for the sites they were very usefull


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## Talon

hey just an update on the tank water conditions are still running perfect but, ive started to notice that alrage amounts of green, brown/grey, and a small patch of red algea have started to grown on the live sand at the bottom of my tank. is there somthing that will eat this? so far i have 2 turbo snails, 5 blue legged hermit crabs, 1 peppermint shrimp, 2 clowns, 1 royal; gramma, 1 yellow tail damsel, and a sailfin benni

anything that i need to get to reduce or resovle this problem?


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## Reefing Madness

Turbo Snails are pretty good with this. Need quite a few of those. Nass Snails. Red algae sounds like Cyano, and thats a flow issue. Brown algae is Diatoms and those will go away by themselves.


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## trukgirl

I agree with Reef, red is cyano and a flow problem... add another or move a powerhead to see if that helps, usually a sign of a dead spot.

I'd say you definitely need more CUC. The general suggestion is one per gallon. I like Mexican Turbo snails and hermits myself


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## Talon

trukgirl said:


> I agree with Reef, red is cyano and a flow problem... add another or move a powerhead to see if that helps, usually a sign of a dead spot.
> 
> I'd say you definitely need more CUC. The general suggestion is one per gallon. I like Mexican Turbo snails and hermits myself


 
what is CUC?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> what is CUC?


 Clean Up Crew


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> Clean Up Crew


 so currently i have 5 blue legged hermit craps and two turbo snails so thats only 7g worth of CUC? so a 20g long tank should have 20 of them then right? do emerald crabs count as this CUC?


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## Talon

also where the red algea is growing is in the strongest flow area so i dont think that there is a flow problem. right now its a 20g long tank and i have a filtration system moving 200gph + live rock 

do you know any other reasons why red algea could be fourming?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> also where the red algea is growing is in the strongest flow area so i dont think that there is a flow problem. right now its a 20g long tank and i have a filtration system moving 200gph + live rock
> 
> do you know any other reasons why red algea could be fourming?


 One power head blowing or 2? You sure you don't have a dead spot there? 
you would only need about 10 Turbo Snails. Yes Emerald Crab is part of the CUC, along with any other snail or crab or urchin you add.:thumbsup:
Dealing with Cyanobacteria (Red Slime Algae) - Reef Health


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> One power head blowing or 2? You sure you don't have a dead spot there?
> you would only need about 10 Turbo Snails. Yes Emerald Crab is part of the CUC, along with any other snail or crab or urchin you add.:thumbsup:
> Dealing with Cyanobacteria (Red Slime Algae) - Reef Health


its not a power head its a aqua clear 50 (hang on the back) filter system. its rated to move 200gph which i thought was good. there wired thing about the red algea is that its growing right in the highest amount of current in the tank.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> its not a power head its a aqua clear 50 (hang on the back) filter system. its rated to move 200gph which i thought was good. there wired thing about the red algea is that its growing right in the highest amount of current in the tank.


You don't really have any flow in the tank. HOB Filters don't have much of a water push to them. Try this out just to see, get a 200gph power head, put it on either end of the tank, middleish down, and then compare the flow between your filter and the power head. No comparison. You really should have more flow, that is the reason you have Cyano. Better yet, get a couple of nano 100-150gph power heads, now that would do ya nicely.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> You don't really have any flow in the tank. HOB Filters don't have much of a water push to them. Try this out just to see, get a 200gph power head, put it on either end of the tank, middleish down, and then compare the flow between your filter and the power head. No comparison. You really should have more flow, that is the reason you have Cyano. Better yet, get a couple of nano 100-150gph power heads, now that would do ya nicely.


 
how much do those cost? and what brand is a good one?


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## Reefing Madness

The 240gph
Water Pumps & Wavemakers: Hydor Koralia Nano 240 & 425

Aquarium Water Pumps & Wavemakers: Oceanic BioCube Circulation Pump


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## Talon

ok ive looked at some powerheads/pumps at my local pet store. the smallest they have is a 425gph hydor koralia. the bos of this pumps says it good for marine aquariums 15g-35g so my tank kinda fits in there do you guys think that this will be too much water flow? also does anyhow with a salt water tank know about sea urchints? i saw some at the pet store and they looked cool but i didnt know much about them. the type that i saw was a pin and a a white pin cushion urchint.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> ok ive looked at some powerheads/pumps at my local pet store. the smallest they have is a 425gph hydor koralia. the bos of this pumps says it good for marine aquariums 15g-35g so my tank kinda fits in there do you guys think that this will be too much water flow? also does anyhow with a salt water tank know about sea urchints? i saw some at the pet store and they looked cool but i didnt know much about them. the type that i saw was a pin and a a white pin cushion urchint.


Powerhead will be ok, that'll give you good flow. Urchin are very cool. But like having a bull in a china closet, they are very strong, and can knock over rocks when they are foraging. They mow down algae like crazy. Very cool looking things. Had a couple before.


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## Talon

ok i got the 425gph hydor koralia. my fished seemed kinda pist cause all of them just went and hid inside the live rock. but hopefully this help clean up the red algea. also i picked up 5 more large turbo snails and a pink pin cushion urchin so i'll post a new pic next weekend and see if that helps with the algea problems.

so to summersize i now have: 
- a cleanup crew of 13 (7 turbo snails, 5 hermit crabs)
- pink pin cushion urchin
- two ocellaris clowns
- 1 sailfin benny
- 1 royal gramma
- 2 yellow tailed damsels


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> ok i got the 425gph hydor koralia. my fished seemed kinda pist cause all of them just went and hid inside the live rock. but hopefully this help clean up the red algea. also i picked up 5 more large turbo snails and a pink pin cushion urchin so i'll post a new pic next weekend and see if that helps with the algea problems.
> 
> so to summersize i now have:
> - a cleanup crew of 13 (7 turbo snails, 5 hermit crabs)
> - pink pin cushion urchin
> - two ocellaris clowns
> - 1 sailfin benny
> - 1 royal gramma
> - 2 yellow tailed damsels


 :-D Sounds like you have it goin on. :thumbsup:
Now awaiting pics.


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## trukgirl

Good thing you got some circulation in there!

Later down the line, if you like you can get Koralia Nano's from marinedepot.com or ebay. I got mine off Ebay, the 240. If you did that I would get 2 and put one on either end of the tank in front and back to make a circle of flow.


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## Talon

hey i got a question. today when i was doing a little maintance on the tank i vaccumed up the bad algea and i move around some of the live rock. now with salt water is it good to move things once in a while like a fresh water tank or try to keep the rock in the same spot?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> hey i got a question. today when i was doing a little maintance on the tank i vaccumed up the bad algea and i move around some of the live rock. now with salt water is it good to move things once in a while like a fresh water tank or try to keep the rock in the same spot?


 you do get old tank syndrome from time to time, but your is to new for the spring cleaning. You can clean it up once in awhile if you so chose, you aren't going to hurt anything. Shoot the rock off from time to time to get detrius out of it. If you get most of it while vacuuming the skimmer should get the rest.


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## e2paradise

creatures ??? please share the pic!!!!!!!!!


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## Talon

here are the new pics

the sailfin benny - Sailfin Benny | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

a group meeting - group meeting | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

the pin cushion urchin - pink pin cushion urchin | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

and the wide shot of my tank - the tank | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

the last one with the grass growing on the rocks is that good or bad? because its spreading to the live sand and other spots.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> you do get old tank syndrome from time to time, but your is to new for the spring cleaning. You can clean it up once in awhile if you so chose, you aren't going to hurt anything. Shoot the rock off from time to time to get detrius out of it. If you get most of it while vacuuming the skimmer should get the rest.


since ive done the vaccum my one clown fish has been acting up again. I added some more of his medicine so hopefully it helps him like it did before. do u think that he can get sick from me moving things around in the tank?


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## e2paradise

............post picture soon please


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> since ive done the vaccum my one clown fish has been acting up again. I added some more of his medicine so hopefully it helps him like it did before. do u think that he can get sick from me moving things around in the tank?


No, not really. Your tank is to young for that. May just be stressing him out yet, as he's still new to the tank. What meds you using again? For what? Sea grass, very good stuff, very cool also.


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## Talon

did u guys like the new pics tho?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> did u guys like the new pics tho?


:gossip:

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Its official, your off and running....LOOKS GREAT!!!


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## gmate

Yeah I loved the last full-tank shot, can't wait to see once you start getting coraliine algae all over that tank. Great job and keep it up, good luck!


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## Talon

gmate said:


> Yeah I loved the last full-tank shot, can't wait to see once you start getting coraliine algae all over that tank. Great job and keep it up, good luck!


 
thanks for all the help and input from all you guys. i think this project is almost done. next a 65g salt water tank:-D


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## e2paradise

Talon said:


> thanks for all the help and input from all you guys. i think this project is almost done. next a 65g salt water tank:-D


why not try to use led aquarium light :lol:


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## Talon

i dont know if im ready for coral yet. i had another bloom of red algae. small in size this time but again still there. its only been two weeks since i got the power head so i dont know if it takes time to clean up or what. im gonna replace the filter parts on the weekend to get the crap out of the water. My lastest chem test is still reading good other than the KH value is high because i use tap water instead of RO water. Also my local pet store is having a sale on some Goniopora corals. there greenish and look cool but the net says there alittle difficult for beginners. any thoughts?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> i dont know if im ready for coral yet. i had another bloom of red algae. small in size this time but again still there. its only been two weeks since i got the power head so i dont know if it takes time to clean up or what. im gonna replace the filter parts on the weekend to get the crap out of the water. My lastest chem test is still reading good other than the KH value is high because i use tap water instead of RO water. Also my local pet store is having a sale on some Goniopora corals. there greenish and look cool but the net says there alittle difficult for beginners. any thoughts?


 Yea, don't go Gonipora (flower pot) for your first coral. Difficult at best to keep. You need to spot feed this coral, its not the easiest to keep for a beginner. Hmm Your using tap water, but only your KH is high?? I would think your Phospahtes are high also. But... You could scrape the Cyano off, or use the powerhead to blow it off, and either suck it up with a syphon or let your skimmer grab it out.


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## Talon

the tank is too small for a protein skimmer. ive already cleaned it off before with a water vaccumm. so ill see how things settle in the next week. i have no clue what lvl my phospahtes are at. there probable high. could that be one of the reasons why its getting red algae? what would u recommend for a beginners coral?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> the tank is too small for a protein skimmer. ive already cleaned it off before with a water vaccumm. so ill see how things settle in the next week. i have no clue what lvl my phospahtes are at. there probable high. could that be one of the reasons why its getting red algae? what would u recommend for a beginners coral?


 Saltwater Aquarium Corals for Marine Reef Aquariums: Nano Corals
If you don't get the phosphate levels down, your gonna have some issues with ugly algae and sponge growth.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> Saltwater Aquarium Corals for Marine Reef Aquariums: Nano Corals
> If you don't get the phosphate levels down, your gonna have some issues with ugly algae and sponge growth.


 
is there any other way to do it besides switching to a RO system? is there some type of phospahte remover?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> is there any other way to do it besides switching to a RO system? is there some type of phospahte remover?


 Yup. Few things you can do. GFO or other Ferric Oxide media.
Bulk packaged Granular ferric oxide GFO for aquariums - English


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## trukgirl

Talon said:


> the tank is too small for a protein skimmer.


No tank is too small for a skimmer if you really want one. I ran an AquaEuroUSA Nano skimmer in my 20g. Yes you can see it but it works great.


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## Talon

ok. its ot the phosphate. i just bought a phosphate test kit (liquid test kit) and it said anything under 1ppm was acceptable. my tank is running under 0.2 ppm. so that rules out the phospahtes as the problem for the algea. the red algea has almost disappeared which is great but im still getting alot of brown and green algea even on the turbo snails shell! lazy little buggers. so far my CUC is at 13 for a 20g tank. so i think the next step would be to maxumies the cuc to 20.

what do you guys think?>


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> ok. its ot the phosphate. i just bought a phosphate test kit (liquid test kit) and it said anything under 1ppm was acceptable. my tank is running under 0.2 ppm. so that rules out the phospahtes as the problem for the algea. the red algea has almost disappeared which is great but im still getting alot of brown and green algea even on the turbo snails shell! lazy little buggers. so far my CUC is at 13 for a 20g tank. so i think the next step would be to maxumies the cuc to 20.
> 
> what do you guys think?>


 Its the Phosphates. What your kit does not tell you is that you want your readings to be 0. And unless your have absolutely no algae in your tank, its hard to test out at that. The algae is eating a big portion of those numbers, and you won't see themin the test. But, upping the cleaning crew is a good idea.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> Its the Phosphates. What your kit does not tell you is that you want your readings to be 0. And unless your have absolutely no algae in your tank, its hard to test out at that. The algae is eating a big portion of those numbers, and you won't see themin the test. But, upping the cleaning crew is a good idea.


well on top of getting the phosphate test kit i also got a filter coponent that removes phosphates so lets see what happens.


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> well on top of getting the phosphate test kit i also got a filter coponent that removes phosphates so lets see what happens.


 :-D


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## Talon

its been two days since i added the phosphate remover and already you can tell a huge difference in the reduction of green algea. also i move the aqua clear 50 to the opposite side of the tank from the power head and now all my red algea is gone YAY!. the only thing that seems to be staying is that brown algea. will that get eaten from the CUC's or just go away with time?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> its been two days since i added the phosphate remover and already you can tell a huge difference in the reduction of green algea. also i move the aqua clear 50 to the opposite side of the tank from the power head and now all my red algea is gone YAY!. the only thing that seems to be staying is that brown algea. will that get eaten from the CUC's or just go away with time?


Combination of both. Diatoms go away by themselves. But your CUC will lend you a hand.


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## Talon

HELP IM LOSING THE WAR AGAINST ALGAE

i went to my wifes school where she is keeping the salt water tank and gave it a quick vaccum to clean up the algae. the live sand looked great nice and white when i left. 5 hours later i come back to the same class and the frickin algae is back and just as bad! how can i get ride of this besides doing water changes all the time? i have a phosphate remover, new sponge pad in the filter, im at a loss with this. my cuc count is at 12 for a 20g long tank


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> HELP IM LOSING THE WAR AGAINST ALGAE
> 
> i went to my wifes school where she is keeping the salt water tank and gave it a quick vaccum to clean up the algae. the live sand looked great nice and white when i left. 5 hours later i come back to the same class and the frickin algae is back and just as bad! how can i get ride of this besides doing water changes all the time? i have a phosphate remover, new sponge pad in the filter, im at a loss with this. my cuc count is at 12 for a 20g long tank


 What are your phosphate readings now? What kind of CUC did you actrually get? 12 Turbo Snails? They should be going through that like mad. Can you get a pic?


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## Reefing Madness

You could try a little gem of a guy called a Sea Hare, love em. They mow down everything.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> You could try a little gem of a guy called a Sea Hare, love em. They mow down everything.


a Sea Hare? is that like a sea horse? the green and brown algae is mostly on the gravel. will it eat those things?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> a Sea Hare? is that like a sea horse? the green and brown algae is mostly on the gravel. will it eat those things?


No, its not a Sea Horse :-D . Yes, it will go all over everything. Its a very cool critter.
Saltwater Aquarium Invertebrates for Marine Reef Aquariums: Sea Hare Sea Slug


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## Talon

they dont sell sea hares at my local pet store. on the other side i dont think it would be a good idea to introduce a creature like that that can release a toxin. also on a sad note, my royal gramma died yesterday. stupid yellow tailed damsel chewed his tail right off and killed him


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> they dont sell sea hares at my local pet store. on the other side i dont think it would be a good idea to introduce a creature like that that can release a toxin. also on a sad note, my royal gramma died yesterday. stupid yellow tailed damsel chewed his tail right off and killed him


 Didnt' me discuss Damsels?


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> Didnt' me discuss Damsels?


 
nope and the pet store guy said they r peaceful :-(


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> nope and the pet store guy said they r peaceful :-(


 Crap, sorry. I always advise against Damsels. Believe it or not, they would be the meanest fish inthe tank. And LFS guys don't know anything.


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## Talon

this just in. i can now truly say that i have beaten the algea problem in my tank. the only algea that is visable now is green algea and that is slowly being eaten by an army of hermit crabs ( black and blue) turbo snails, mexican snails, and 1 urchin HURRAY! now i need to figure out what other fish i should introduce to my tank that will comingle with my two clowns and two damsels. any suggestions?


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## Reefing Madness

To many choices for you. Mingle with your clowns is easy, its your Damsels that are going to have a fit.


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## Talon

ya but i got orange from the clown fish and blue from the damsels. maybe somthing yellow or green would look cool. do small angel fish comengle well with damsels?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> ya but i got orange from the clown fish and blue from the damsels. maybe somthing yellow or green would look cool. do small angel fish comengle well with damsels?


 Most fish do well together, but Damsels are not fish:-D They are just mean lil critters. But, yes, they will get along with them.


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## onefish2fish

i would not put any angel in a 20 gallon tank not to mention there is already a clown and 2 damsels in there. i personally would remove the damsels add another clown and then down the road finally add a watchman goby with a pistol shrimp and think your tank will be pretty well stocked. just my opinion.


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## Talon

well a bit of some new news. i just started on the path to my 40g salt water tank. i have a guy coming tomorrow to buy the fresh water fish that i have and then this weekend i'll start to clean and get the tank ready for the salt water world. is 40g large enough for a tang or no?


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## Reefing Madness

No Tangs in a 40.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> No Tangs in a 40.


would small dwarf angel fish be ok in a 40g tank?


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## Reefing Madness

Yup, sure wil. Most only get 3-4", they'll do ya. And you have quite a few to choose from.


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## Talon

alright, im almost ready to throw in the towel, 2 weeks ago the tank was almost spotless. no algea no nothing. then all of a sudden. half the tank is covered in green algea, and to top it all off some how all of my turbo snails have died. chem test shows everything is in the safe zone and salt level is at 1.024. the only thing that has change is the introduction of black legged hermit crabs. my local pet store said they would help out everything in the tank and for the first few day they did, u could watch them turn over the live sand and eat the algea. but somhow all my turbo snails are dead now except for the mexican snails. any help with this would be awsome.

also there was a heavy smell coming from the tank as well. i figure it was from the dead snails in the tank. could anything else cause the smell?


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## Reefing Madness

Yea, smell of rotten eggs if you have a Deep Sand bed. They release toxic gas and can kill everything in the tank. SO, being this thread is 12 pages long, ya gotta refresh my memory. Your tank isn't very old which would account for the algae. I've never been able to keep Turbo snails very long, so I wouldn't throw in the towel there. Whats a mexican snail? I know of the ones called Mexican Turbo Snails. There are quite a few other snails you can also buy out there, turbos are just the biggest at removing algae. When they die, unless in huge quantities, they are not going to foul the water, bristle worms and your hermits eat out the remains. Now about these Black Legged Hermits, never heard of them. Are you sure they just eat algae?
Also, I don't know of anyone who does not have to clean algae off the glass from time to time. What kind of algae and where are you having the issue?


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## onefish2fish

i personally would stop adding things being sold to help remove algae when they are just contributing to the bioload. it seems as if your tank is trying to stabalize itself but if i had to guess to much was added to fast. 

using only RO/DI water for water top off and performing a small water change would be a good start. a reactor for carbon and one for phosban wouldnt hurt either. exactly what filtration do you currently have? how about flow? what and how much are you feeding? this can most def. contribute to un-wanted nutrients which will lead to un-wanted algae. you may not see much of a nitrate or phosphate reading if the algae is consuming these ( even though a source is present ) 

lighting can contribute to algae growth too. are your bulbs old? are they 10K + spectrum? do you have corals in this tank? is cutting back the lighting to an hour or two a day possible for a few days?

ultimately you'd have to adjust what would be feeding the algae, either nitrates or phosphates or both.. and remove that problem, whether it be overfeeding or a slow flow/dead spot in the tank/sump. 


im not familiar with black hermits either. i personally dont like any crabs in my tanks, including hermits. they seem to like to eat what they find/want. hermits tend to eat snails for their shell and sometimes not even use that shell.


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## Talon

right now i have a T-5 dual lighting system, 14k coral growth light and a marine acitic blue light. The meduims that im using in my filter are sponge, carbon/phosphate removor and bio cubes on top. and as for water im just using tap water. by i have a phosphate tester and it says that the tap water is almost 0 for phosphates. right now im currently working on a small water change. i dont think its a flow problem because i have no red algea. i have my aqua clear 50 on one side and a 425 power head on the other so there should be plently of flow. i think your right though about the hermit crabs i should have gone one or the other. the net said they where reef safe thats why i got them and they seemed to do more than the snails did. and no i have no corals yet, thats on the todoo list.


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## Talon

k algea problem is dying down alittle. no red algea and brown is very little. about 1/8 of the sand bed is covered in green algea which seems to be where all the hermit crabs spend most of there time. so i think this tank is done, im just gonna have the 4 fish in the tank and thats it.

secondly i finally just sold my last fresh water fish from my 45g tank and now im in the process of switching it to salt water. the question i have here is my friend is trying to get ride of his still in the box never used fluval 303 and wants to sell it to me for $100. is this worth it or should i stick with the two aqua clear 50 and 20?

any thoughts?


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## Reefing Madness

Your call on the filter. You know what I'd say. Its not needed. But, thats up to you.Price is to high if you ask me, you can get a brnd new one off e-bay for $123 shipped. But at 222gph its way undersized for water movement.
FLUVAL A212 A211 305-306 NEWEST MODEL EXTERNAL AQUARIUM CANISTER FILTER 303GPH | eBay


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## gmate

Minimum tank size for a smaller tang, such as a Yellow, would be 4-6 feet (75-90 gallons)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Talon

Merry christmas everyone!


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## Phuture

for what its worth, on a 20 gal tank you could use distilled water from the super market for your top off and water changes. it would only cost a few dollars a week. better than tap water imo.


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## Talon

ok i just tried to rder stuff from saltwaterfish.com and they dont ship to canada. does anyone know a good site that can ship to canada?


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## Reefing Madness

Talon said:


> ok i just tried to rder stuff from saltwaterfish.com and they dont ship to canada. does anyone know a good site that can ship to canada?


 Aquarium Fish: Tropical Freshwater Fish and Saltwater Fish for Home Aquariums 
Pet Supplies | Dog & Cat Supplies, Pet Meds | DrsFosterSmith.com Pet Products
Worth a shot anyway.


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## Talon

Reefing Madness said:


> Aquarium Fish: Tropical Freshwater Fish and Saltwater Fish for Home Aquariums
> Pet Supplies | Dog & Cat Supplies, Pet Meds | DrsFosterSmith.com Pet Products
> Worth a shot anyway.


 
thx


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