# What do i need!!!??!!



## Brandon (Dec 14, 2006)

Ok Im going to go out to but a Fw tank starter kit from like pet cetera or something and i wanted to know what i absolutly need for a nano reef. Ill then compare to what it comes with and see what i need to buy.(Im going for a 20 gallon tank with light included(don't know if its flourecent) ).

Please tell me if you see any inexpensive well sized nano kits (remember i live in Ontario (Cananda).


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

why are you buying a kit? those kits will contain nothing that will be of any use to you. You should just start from scratch. Get a good glass tank like a all-glass or tetra-fin,dont get acrylic they suck.
The tank will come with a flourecent fixture that you can use. you can use the bulb it comes with or replace it with a different color if your going fish only.
You will need a power filter cause your going simple(not doing a sump tank like me) get a big wisper power filter or the filter with the most room in it, posibly a aqua-clear. put some foam in the bottom and get some lr rubble from your lf then on top of that you put cheato morphe its a type of algea that will eat up nitrates in your water Iv heard of people even putting in a deep sand bed. on top of the filter you put a compact flourecent bulb and a reflector to grow the cheato.
for some more necesitys you will need a nice heater 
a test kit with-amonia,nitrite,nitrate,ph,and you will need phosphate cause you willl be using cheato(thats if you decide to use cheato)
a hydormeter
a few powerheads will be a good idea
thermometer
and some salt

here, im setting up a 20 gallon saltwater just like you, let me tell you how im setting it up.
for filtration i have a 600 gph overflow box leading to a 10 gallon sump,in the sump i will have a asm mini g proteins skimmer and some cheato, grown by the hood that came with the 10 gallon,to get the water back to the tank i have a ocean runner 2500 pump pushing 600 gph(at 0 foot of head) so that will bring tho flow through the sump around 300 gph, the water then goes into the tank through 3 outlets, 3 1/2 inch pvc angled outlets, for even more curculation i have a magnum 250 gph filter with a directional outlet for cleaning the water and moving it, on top of that i will have a aditional powerhead to suck the air out of the overflow box. for biological filtration i will use a bucket with bioballs in it and wholes in the bottom to drain into the sump, half the flow from the overflow box leading to that and that drains into the sump. this is only temporary cause i plan on building a sump/refugium in the futere with a deep sand bed and lr for bio,+bioballs are not good cause they keep nitrates up so i hear.for lighing i have the current usa duel compact flourecent sattalite fixture pushing 130 watts for the corals. if you are only keeping fish then you can skip this. in the tank im planning on 30 pounds of lr and some aragnite sand for a bottom.
so far i have spent 340 and im only 14 so im sure a grown man can easily pull this off finacialy.
I relly recemend the filtraion i mentioned earlier, i think it will be perfect for you, just talking about it is making me think i shouldent have gone the sump route.

if i were you when you get to the fish store dont even ask whatever kid is working there for any advice. get whats on your list dont let them try to give you advice. If its a lf owned by someone that has experience then listen to what they have too say(dont completely take there word)

keep in mind your fish store may not carry everything you want. dont buy something if your not sure if its good get what you relly want even if you gota order online.

I cant wait to see what you deside.


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

this is some quality stuff you should look into,not the junk that comes with the kits,i wouldent use those kits on a freshwater.

this is a good filter, perfect for a perfect for a refugium. it comes with the foam too!
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_filters_hagen_aquaclear_power.asp?CartId=

this is a great heater, you will need 150 or 200 watts
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=EJ1117


If your keeping corals this is great this is what i have+ it comes with a moonlight it will make your tank sparkle when the lights go out.
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CU01013

these are good powerheads they use suctions so you dont have to place them on the rim of your tank
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium...stems_maxi-jet_mini-jet_micro-jet.asp?CartId=

these are good if you ever decide you want a protein skimmer but dont want to do a sump like i am they hang rite on your tank
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_protein_skimmers_aquac_remora_pro.asp?CartId=

this is good salt this is what mike recemends too me, it has all the goods in it but your lf prolly wont carry it so thats y i mentioned ordering online
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SC7331

this olite aragnate stuff is good 
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CS0930

this is a good brand of test you just need this kit and a phosphate test
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=AP3313

I practicly went shopping for you but its your decition. thats just what i would do.


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## Brandon (Dec 14, 2006)

Wow guys thanks for pretty much going shopping for me but a few more questions.



> put some foam in the bottom and get some lr rubble from your lf then on top of that you put cheato morphe its a type of algea that will eat up nitrates in your water Iv heard of people even putting in a deep sand bed. on top of the filter you put a compact flourecent bulb and a reflector to grow the cheato.


Umm im kinda confused on this one so if any one has any pics that could further explaine this that would be great.



> so far i have spent 340 and im only 14 so im sure a grown man can easily pull this off finacialy.


Im actually 15 and trying to get a job but when i do ill be laughfing about these money issues.

Umm what exactly does a protien skimmer do that a filter doesn't?

Are powerheads just like jets?

When i run my tank for abour 6 weeks or whatever do i have the heater the filter on and the salt and the powerheads and every this in?

Umm what a refugium?

And how do i clean the tank?

Sorry for all the stupid questions.

And i might actually do a sump so could youshow detailed tank pics and explain every thing like im in kindergarden. I might be building another tank but i could alway just build a sump because i have a bunch of plexiglass and acrylic at school.






> here, im setting up a 20 gallon saltwater just like you, let me tell you how im setting it up.
> for filtration i have a 600 gph overflow box leading to a 10 gallon sump,in the sump i will have a asm mini g proteins skimmer and some cheato, grown by the hood that came with the 10 gallon,to get the water back to the tank i have a ocean runner 2500 pump pushing 600 gph(at 0 foot of head) so that will bring tho flow through the sump around 300 gph


Ok here we go, whats an overflowbox?

Do i have to drill holes in my 20 gallon reef if i want a sump?

What 10 gallon kit did u buy?

And again could you please show me a pic?

Thank you guys so much you've helped alot already...
Brandon

P.s i think im gonna buy online because if you order 175 dollars or more the shipping is free(and no tax i think).

Thanks


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

wow a lot of questions so i will go in order. 

''Umm im kinda confused on this one so if any one has any pics that could further explaine this that would be great''
ok this is pretty simple inside of the power filter you first put in foam,this is just to filter out little bits of dirt,on top of the foam you get little bits of lr from your dealer and pack them in there,the purpose of this is for biological filtration and to give little critters a place to live were the fish in your tank wont eat them. you dont completely filll the filter box with lr rubble becuase you need room to grow the cheato(algea that grows like a matt of spagettii) The reason i tell you to get the fillter with the most room in it is becuase the algea needs room to grow. Your prolly thinking y would you want to grow algea in your filter? for algea to grow it needs two things phosphate, and nitrate, both of these you dont want in your tank. algea uses phosphate and nitrate to grow,once it overgrows your filter you trim it.

next question
what does a protein skimmer do that a filter doesent?
a skimmer is a filter. 
http://www.aquatictech.com/skimmers.htm
This is what a skimer looks like(this is also what i will be useing) a protein skimmer uses a pump and acts like a blender to mix water and air together im a chamber, Little dissolved waste you dont want in your water cling to the bubles of air and float to to top of the chamber and get trapped in a cup. The purpose of this is to get that stuff out of your water before it has time to be eaten by the bacteria in your filter.Why wouldent you want it to be eaten by the bacteria in your filter you ask? because when the bacteria are done eating that gunk whats left is nitrate. Nitrate can only be removed with a water change(costs you money) or with cheato algea.you do not need a skiimmer but when you get money you may want to get one.

powerheads or just pumps in your water for making curculation for your corals.
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=AS1117

a refugium is just a place for little critters to grow and reproduce without your fish eating them. In a refugium you may find tiny starfish,worms,copeapods(little critters) and algea. 

how do you clean the tank?
iv never cleaned a saltwater tank becuase mines not set up yet but i think all you have to do is water changes and clean algea. you dont take every thing out of the tank to clean it just scrape some algea of the walls and drain some water and add some new saltwater(use a heater to get it the same temp as your tank water)

A sump is just a tank under your tank were filtration takes place such as you can have your refugium in your sump,heater,skimmer,ect

a overflow box is what you use to drain water from your tank to your sump if your tank is not already pre-drilled with a overflow.
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CR1513
this is what i have. If you have x amount of water going into your sump and you have x amount of water leaving your sump from you skimmer your prolly thinking y doesent the tank overflow from a imbalance in flows? thats were a overflow bax comes in, it regulates the flow going into your sump.
no you do not have to drill holes if you want a sump thats what the overflow box is for.
10 gallon kit? im just buying a standard glass tank. they come with the a hood with a flourecent bulb in them if thats what your asking.
I did not buy a kit i bought all these parts seperatly. I think that what your relly asking is do regular tanks come with flourecent lighting? yes

Ordering online is a good idea but the problem im haveing is when you order the salt and sand they add a speacial handling charge that the free shipping dosent cover.


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

the algea you put in your filter
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=2401


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

In the last paragraph were i was telling you how a overflow box works in the third sentence down change skimmer to pump.


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## Brandon (Dec 14, 2006)

Ok im gonna draw some random paint diagrams to see if i can understand further. Im going to see if i can do the sump this way.

Sump(tell me if im not even close to right because i don't want to buy an overflow box)


Filter idea with lv and stuff (tell me if i have setup wrong)


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

filter diagram is good 
sump diagram is wrong the sump is not closed. it is a open tank that sits under your tank. The overflow box drains into it and the pump is attached to a pvc line that brings it back. it you gota buy a overflow box.


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## Brandon (Dec 14, 2006)

Thanks, Im gonna go the filter route. More questions tommorow


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

are you going the filter route cause its cheaper? i think thats a good idea. Maybe when you get a job you can get a sump and a skimmer like me.
pm me your email adress if you want me to send you the neet diagrams i made for you but i dont know how to post them on this forum i only know how to email them.


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## Brandon (Dec 14, 2006)

You just said awhile ago that you're having secon thoughts about going the sump route.


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

no you can get the same results with both, you willl get better results with the sump becuase your water will be more stable becuase there is more water. and you can keep more fish with the sump.


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