# High ammonia after partial substrate change?



## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

Yesterday I changed about 1/4 of the substrate in my tank and replaced it with fine sand. I rinsed the sand first in a pillowcase, hit the side of the bath with the pillowcase to squeeze the most water out before I used it in the tank. So far no problems, water is a bit murky but it quickly settle down. a few hours later, I test the water just to be sure (the fishes shows no sign of unease btw). 1 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites! Crap, I do a 40% water change, add Prime to make sure, seems okay.

This afternoon I test again, 0,75ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites! Double-crap, another water change. I test immediatly afterwards and nothing changed. 

I still monitor it closely and the fishes still look fine, but I really thought since I was doing it step-by-step I wouldn't throw the cycle that badly out of whack! Then I realized, I rinsed the sand with normal tap-water...did I destroy my cycle by rinsing the new sand with untreated water? It is just because 1/4 is still too much to switch at once?:shock:


----------



## syrinx (Jan 12, 2009)

If the fish still look fine, I would strongly suspect a false reading from the test kit. Many things, including Prime, can sometimes interfere with Nesslers (yellow) reagent tests. Unless your tapwater has .75 ppm ammonia in it, no change after a water change is impossible.

I am assuming you dont have a UG filter since you are using sand. With an established power filter, I have a hard time seeing what you did causing an ammonia spike. But keep a close eye on the fish just in case.


----------



## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

Would not worry about ammonia if pH is 7.4 or lower. If so,* stop* doing water changes since further disturbances will hinder reestablishing/stablizing bio-activities. . I would keep close eye on possible Nitrite spikes as Ammonia is controlled though.


----------



## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

syrinx said:


> If the fish still look fine, I would strongly suspect a false reading from the test kit. Many things, including Prime, can sometimes interfere with Nesslers (yellow) reagent tests. Unless your tapwater has .75 ppm ammonia in it, no change after a water change is impossible.
> 
> I am assuming you dont have a UG filter since you are using sand. With an established power filter, I have a hard time seeing what you did causing an ammonia spike. But keep a close eye on the fish just in case.


I have a Fluval 204 canister filter with 3 foams and 1 bag of noodles so yeah, I really have a hard time thinking 1/4 sand is enough to mess with it! I just tested my tap water and it's free of ammonia. I am using API test kit for ammonia, so maybe Prime is messing with it.

Today my readings were 0,50 ppm and still 0 nitrites. One of my guppies looks unwell but I can't be sure it's the ammonia since I've had him for less than a week, he's the only one looking bad, and I've already lost another guppy from the same batch a few days ago to unknown causes :/


----------



## flight50 (Sep 30, 2008)

water changes are necessary are and suppose to be good. well not in all cases. sounds like you may have the same problem that i have. your tap has ammonia in it. test your tap and get a reading. if your tank is fully cycled and you get a reading of about 1ppm, within a 12-24 hr period, your tank will be back at 0ppm.


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I would think that if there was ammomia in the source water that there would have been problems before now. Anyone who has ever tore down a tank can surely attest to the gunk under the substrate which could have contributed to sudden ammonia spike. The bacteria may have trouble adjusting to this sudden, albeit temporary increase in ammonia from detrius that was suddenly released. You may wish to increase the amount of water conditioner used during small water changes until you get a handle on it. PRIME is safe to use at double the recommended dose.


----------



## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

1077 said:


> I would think that if there was ammomia in the source water that there would have been problems before now. Anyone who has ever tore down a tank can surely attest to the gunk under the substrate which could have contributed to sudden ammonia spike. The bacteria may have trouble adjusting to this sudden, albeit temporary increase in ammonia from detrius that was suddenly released. You may wish to increase the amount of water conditioner used during small water changes until you get a handle on it. PRIME is safe to use at double the recommended dose.



That's the only logical reason why it happened, considering my tap water has no ammonia...I'm surprised at the amount of ammonia released by the substrate considering the tank is only a month old (I used media from 2 other established tanks to seed it and it cycled in a week)

Is there a way I can prevent it happening again? I still have 3/4 of the tank to do :-?


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Considering that the tank is only a month old, (should of maybe left seed material in longer) It is possible that enough bacteria was removed to cause a spike in ammonia. Also ,you don't say what fish were used during the cycling but guppies, don't really create much of a bio load which may also be contributing factor.
As for hoe to prevent it from happening again,, You say you used seed material from two other tanks to help cycle this tank. Can you move the fish to one of those tanks? or move the betta to a smaller temporary tank, bowl, etc so that you can move guppies to betta tank while you change substrates? 
It is always a good idea to monitor water conditions for at least ten days after you think tank has matured or cycled. And leave seed material in the tank for three weeks to four weeks after you think the tank has cycled so that these little bumps are avoided.


----------



## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

1077 said:


> Considering that the tank is only a month old, (should of maybe left seed material in longer) It is possible that enough bacteria was removed to cause a spike in ammonia. Also ,you don't say what fish were used during the cycling but guppies, don't really create much of a bio load which may also be contributing factor.
> As for hoe to prevent it from happening again,, You say you used seed material from two other tanks to help cycle this tank. Can you move the fish to one of those tanks? or move the betta to a smaller temporary tank, bowl, etc so that you can move guppies to betta tank while you change substrates?
> It is always a good idea to monitor water conditions for at least ten days after you think tank has matured or cycled. And leave seed material in the tank for three weeks to four weeks after you think the tank has cycled so that these little bumps are avoided.



I used fishless cycling with only fish food as ammonia material, and the seed material is in fact still there (I put a foam from my closed 10g in the filter, and squeezed the foam from my 5g tank in the water). I waited 7 days after the water parameters evened out to start moving my fishes in :-?. I was too confident that the seed material would hold the tank upright I guess

I could use the 5g for the gourami and my 6 corys I guess, for a few days they would be okay. The ammonia is already almost to 0 this morning, so 3 days cramped in a 5g are the lesser of the two evils


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Well, were it me,, I would be sorely tempted to hold off on changing substrtate but you have to make your own call. I would remind you that the addition of the fish to the five gal could cause ammonia spike there as well. Must always remember,, cycling never really reaches a point where it is complete. The bacteria grows and decreases with available food source. This is why many have problems after the tank has cycled. Too many fish added too soon, for bacteria to adjust to waste produced by the sudden addition of numerous fish or fish that are large waste producers.
While the fish are in the five gal. should you decide to continue with changing substrates, I might feed them sparingly maybe once every other day.They won't starve and this will help keep ammonia levels in the five gal to a minimum. I would get everything ready so that you can make the switch quickly and fish won't be uncomfortable any longer than necessary. Hope it works out.;-)


----------



## flight50 (Sep 30, 2008)

you probably would have done better using pure ammonia vs fish food. imo its easier to measure when adding to the tank. its cheaper and you don't waste food that can be given to the livestock. but i know some people do take the route that you take and that is by choice just as mine was to use liquid ammonia.


----------



## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

1077 said:


> Well, were it me,, I would be sorely tempted to hold off on changing substrtate but you have to make your own call. I would remind you that the addition of the fish to the five gal could cause ammonia spike there as well. Must always remember,, cycling never really reaches a point where it is complete. The bacteria grows and decreases with available food source. This is why many have problems after the tank has cycled. Too many fish added too soon, for bacteria to adjust to waste produced by the sudden addition of numerous fish or fish that are large waste producers.
> While the fish are in the five gal. should you decide to continue with changing substrates, I might feed them sparingly maybe once every other day.They won't starve and this will help keep ammonia levels in the five gal to a minimum. I would get everything ready so that you can make the switch quickly and fish won't be uncomfortable any longer than necessary. Hope it works out.;-)


Yeah I definitely put myself in a 'damned if you do damned if you don't' kind of situation here  I want to switch substrate mainly because I want Emperor or Diamond Tetras and I stupidly chose white substrate before knowing which fish I wanted to put in the tank. I guess I will just grab a cuppa here and there for a looong while and use very fine black sand that will easily cover the white even when vaccumed. The Tetras will survive a little white.


----------



## syrinx (Jan 12, 2009)

Perhaps you could put filter material over the filter intake while working with the gravel to catch as much of the gunk as possible. And vacuum the suface of the substrate after the rest settles out.


----------



## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

GAAH after a few days of 30% water changes the ammonia has finally come down to 0, then I tested 3 days later and it was up to 2 ppm! I didn,t even touch the substrate and the remaining fishes seems fine, no ammonia burns, no symptoms of ammonia poisoning. I did lose one cory last week to what looked like fungal infection (it killed him in less than 24 hours though, despite QT tank and treatment...) It's been over a week since my blunder, I don't get why the ammonia is not coming down. I think I may be overfeeding though, and I'd like to know, it is okay to stop feeding the fishes for 3-4 days to see if the ammonia will come down? I'm at loss here. My ammonia test could be faulty but it's about 8 months-old and has never been like that!


----------



## Freddiesbuns (Oct 22, 2008)

OK I think I found the problem, seems like the gunk had accumulated at the bottom of the canister filter. I cleaned it, we'll see what happens *keeps fingers crossed*


----------

