# 6 goldfish all at bottom of tank laying on their sides



## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

Help! Last week we noticed our 7 goldfish and 5 swordtails sort of swimming around the filter. We didn't think much of it but I started losing fish. Yesterday all the fish were doing were laying on their sides in the fake plants. I can get the net and they will move and then sink down to the bottom. It's a 55 gal tank, we did a 2/3 water change and I stopped by pet store and got a poly filter which they said to use for 12 hours and then take it out and put in this type of fungus remover than cures costiasis, dropsy, hemoragic septicemia, etc. and take out the carbon filters. The fish do appear to have little holes in their sides which sounded like Spring Virosis from your info. Don't know but it is just pitiful. I have had the poly filter in for about 5 hours and no change. We did wait 3 months to gravel vac this time and we added 5 swordtails last month from a friend. The amonia and nitrate and nitrate levels are reading fine, water tem 72 degrees. Haven't put the antibiotic in yet, hopefully someone will help me here before they all die. Many thanks!


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Did you cycle the tank before adding the fish? Goldfish produce an astronomical amount of ammonia compared to the average tropical fish and for that reason the MAXIMUM your tank can healthily support is 5 fancy goldfish or 1 common goldfish. Its highly possible that these fish are in effect being poisoned by the quantity of waste dissolved in the water. 

Also it sounds like the tank is not getting enough oxygen. Goldfish in particular require a lot of oxygen and paired with the amount of waste they produce, its the reason that goldfish need twice the filtration that an average tropical fish needs.

Do you have a master test kit and if so what are your water stats?


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## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

I just have the test strips which are all reading normal. I wondered about the oxygen but don't know how to improve it. I have had this tank about 5 years and this is the first time I ever had a problem. I had two plecosthamus in there as well, and they are GONE! So I don't know if the goldfish or swordtails ate them and it poisioned the water or what. The girl at the pet store, privately owned by the way, said it sounded like the tank was poisioned.


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Test strips are not known for being incredibly accurate. Which is not good when what shows as .5ppm of nitrite is actually 1.0ppm or when ammonia showing up at 0 ppm is actually.25 ppm.

When you say fine do you mean that all the levels on the test strips were 0? Or simply that they were low?

In light of your dead plecos, it sounds like they finally died due to the heavy bioload of your tank, polluting the water as they decomposed.

You can increased the DO (dissolved oxygen) by doing the following:

-removing fish
-adding an air pump
-increasing filtration
-lowering the temperature

Do you have a picture of the fish?


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## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

They won't come up off the bottom and they are back against the wall. All they do is float back down. Some have the little holes in their sides that I can see. What do you think about the antibiotic? The one little swordtail I have left seems fine. It's a male. I hate seeing my fish I have had for 5 years like this. It's killing me.


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

I would put the antibiotic in for what its worth. Its a shot in the dark albeit more like a spray of bullets in the dark. The antibiotic sounds like a broad-spectrum gram negative antibiotic which will treat internal infections if thats what your fish have.

What do the holes look like? Any red or fuzziness around the edges? Blackened edges? Its really hard to tell anything without a picture.


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## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

Yes, I just got off the phone with her and said basically just said the same thing verbatim. She told me to areate the water using a pitcher and pour it back in and out of the tank several times for more movement of the water. She wants me to bring a water sample tomorrow, so she can properly test it. Told me to take the filter out now and and the carbon filter and incorporate the antibiotic and see what happens. Guess I will do it, I just hope it doesn't hurt them any further. She is also a big fan of non iodized salt. Any thoughts on it?i


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Aquarium salt (aka non-iodized salt minus any other anti-caking agents or harmful-to-fish additives) is a very effective supplement to pretty much any treatment. You can add it at 1 TBSP per 5g to aid your antibiotic. Anything labeled as aquarium salt or kosher salt will do.

Also, don't remove the filter, just remove the carbon insert. The filter will still provide vital oxygen to the water, WAY more so than simply stirring water in a pitcher (you'd need to do that every hour to provide the oxygenation a filter can). The way a filter oxygenates water is that it provides constant surface movement; churning the water up to the surface where its exposed to oxygen. This is also the idea behind an air pump... its not so much the bubbles coming out of it that oxygenate the water, its the current that those bubbles create as they travel to the surface.


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## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

She gave me filter fiber to fill up the filter area with after I pull the charcoal and the poly filter out. I am about to do it. Keep your fingers crossed and thanks Kelly for all of your input and prompt replys. Pat


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the little guys as well!!!


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Do you have thick plants in the tank? I can't imagine other fish could eat a pleco if it wanted to... Maybe they're just hidden somewhere and slowly rotting?
If it was me, I'd take all the large decor out (including plants) and see if you find a couple half-decomposed pleco corpses.

You mentioned that according to the strips everything is "normal". What exactly did the strips say? 
Many guides for the strips say that ammonia should be <3 and nitrite should be <5, but really they should be 0.\
Also, check the PH. It could be extremely low or extremely high, which would cause similiar symptoms to poisoning. Usually "poisoning" can be temporarily treated by doing frequent water changes with fresh dechlorinated water. (w/cs will remove nitrogen compounds, other "poisons" from the air or cleaning supplies, and will slowly bring the PH closer to that of your tap water- unfortnately will also remove meds and salt.)

I also agree that you should use a magnifier and look at these "holes" you speak of closely and tell us what they look like. Are they holes? Do you mean gills when you say holes? Are they inflamed (red)? Do they have a "fuzziness" (mold/fungus) around them?
I've had sick fish like you're describing before, but usually they didn't live 24hrs after I noticed the symptoms...

definately need to take out the carbon if you're using meds, but you probably already knew that.

Worst case scenario (everything dies), scrub the tank with either strong salt water (and rinse thoroughly) or mild bleach solution (rinse thoroughly and then rinse with water again with a triple does of dechlorinator- dechlorinator neutralises bleach since it's basically chlorine gas dissolved in inert liquid) and start up again with just swordtails. 

They're MUCH easier to keep, and stay small.



Good luck!


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## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

They are about the same today though I did see one trying to swim a little before I went to work this morning. Any idea on when I should do another partial water change? I will go add the salt now, and the antibiotic can only be used every other day. So I will dose em again tomorrow. But I think the water change again in the next few days might be good, do you? Guess they are still alive so I am thankful.


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Yeah just change the water right before you have to add the next dose of antibiotic. You don't want to be removing any active antibiotic in between dosings.


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## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

I only have 3 fish left and they are now breathing pretty heavily like they are gasping for breath. Anything else I should do? I may put them out of their misery. I can't stand this.


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## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

Ok,thanks redchigh,
I still haven't had a proper water sample done because I live about 40 miles from the pet store I use. I only have 2 fish and 1 swordtail and I have them quaranteened in anothe tank now but it doesn't look good. They are both on the bottom and gasping for air. The swordtail is fine, and I sure feel sorry for him. I know I will lose the other two goldfish now but I had to give them a chance and get them out of that tank. I don't guess I could put the little male swordtail in with one of my bettas could I? I might just change to them, I have lost so many goldfish over the years and they sure poop alot!


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Full water changes and don't put the sword in with the betta! There is a good possibility that the bacteria has gotten aggressive and if there's any possibility he could bring it into the betta tank there could be trouble.

The reason you are losing so many goldfish is that they require at least 10g for each fancy goldfish, or 40g for each common/singletail goldfish. You were certainly right when you said they poop alot... they have no stomachs and therefore produce more waste inch for inch than any other tropical fish. For this reason they need double the recommended filtration (in gallons per hour) for tropical tanks, which means they need a filter that can filter the tank's volume 10 times per hour.

They also live for 10-20 (or even 40 for commons) years and reach a full size of 8-12" if they're fancy or 12-24" if they're commons. 

Frankly I am surprised they lasted 5 years, espescially with the plecos who are also notoriously messy. I expect they are severely stunted... around 6 inches or less in total body length?

I decided not to even go there with the lectures on goldfish husbandry because in order to accomodate all your fish you would be looking at a 100g tank - 2000g pond depending on whether the goldies were fancy or common.

I strongly encourage you to get back on the horse with goldfish if you lose them (or if any survive)... they are a very rewarding, easy to take care of pet provided you give them enough space. By not overstocking and doing a bit of homework on goldfish care I am positive your goldfish could enjoy full, healthy, unproblematic lifespans. Keep your chin up!


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## fungambler (Aug 9, 2009)

Just an update to both of you, I lost all of them. I took the water sample to the pet place first thing this morning and NOTHING was wrong. Amonia was great. ph fine, nitrate, nitrite fine and nothing was spiked at all. They were really dumbfounded up there and so am I. My swordtail is now on his last leg as well. I'm done! I will just stick to bettas. This was too much for me. Thanks for all your help and encouragement.


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