# Petsmart- why do I keep going there!?



## okiemavis

Every once and a while I convince myself that maybe that new chain store isn't that bad and I should visit. A new PetSmart opened nearby and I thought I'd visit it. Well, it was that bad. It really, really was. Here's an email I sent to PetSmart today. I just don't feel OK visiting a store like that and keeping my mouth shut. I hope others will speak up with me.



> I recently visited the Fish section of this store. I was excited to visit it because it is new and large and I was hopeful about the conditions the fish were kept in.
> 
> When I arrived, I was extremely disappointed. I saw two fish in particular that worried me- a fish with an extreme case of Ich and one with Fin Rot so bad that it no longer had any fins. Both of these were extremely far progressed and the fish had clearly had the condition for some time. These fish were clearly sick and contagious and should have been quarantined. The more reputable fish stores I visit refuse to sell any fish from a tank with a sick fish in it. However, the employees seemed to have no idea that these fish were sick and did were quite happy to sell those fish and others from the tank.
> 
> These fish are not only being improperly cared for, but you are doing a great disservice to all of your customers. Anyone who buys fish from these tanks runs the risk of infecting all of the healthy fish they have at home. I asked your employees if they had any training in fish health and they said yes, but the training must not have been very good. All that would be needed to train employees to identify these types of illnesses would be to simply show them a picture of a similarly infected fish.
> 
> I brought this subject up with the store manager and she said she would speak to the Fish Care manager the next day, as he was already gone for the night. However, I did not hold out much hope for the situation as these fish had been sick for a long time and the Fish Care manager was either uninformed or negligent enough to not remove them earlier. I do not see why someone like this would be appointed and maintained as the person in charge of the health of fish.
> 
> The obvious sickness of these fish depressed and disappointed me. Clearly I cannot purchase any of your fish as I run the risk of seriously infecting my current pet fish. I am a member of the Boston Aquarium Society and of a popular online fish forum and will be sure to warn every fish keeper I meet to buy their fish from a better kept store.
> 
> I'd certainly like to give your store a try again sometime, but right now I don't have the heart to return.
> 
> Regards,
> Maeve


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## studioskim3

good going Maeve!


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## iamntbatman

I've had mixed experiences with Petsmart. The store closest to my college is absolutely abysmal. In your letter, you cited one bad case of ich and a really bad case of fin rot. The store near campus ALWAYS has disease running rampant through their tanks. The cichlids are always covered in ich, every last one of them with a really bad case of it. There are dozens of dead fish in their tanks at any given time. 

On the opposite end of the spectrum, another Petsmart near me actually has some fairly well-informed employees. I've been to this store several times now, and each time I've actually witness them refuse to sell fish to people for all sorts of reasons (incompatible fish, hard fish to keep for beginners, people who were buying tanks at the time so obviously hadn't cycled their tanks yet, etc). Additionally, someone actually removed a lot of the official Petsmart information labels from the tanks and has replaced them with hand-written cards with information that's actually accurate. Not to mention their prices on certain equipment are much cheaper than my other LFS's, though they're generally more expensive than online shops.

All in all, especially considering the anecdotes you read about Petsmart from other members of the forum, I'd say more often than not that Petsmart is a pretty crappy place to shop. I don't mind buying some supplies there (like fish food) but for fish, I definitely prefer my LFS and for supplies, I'll mostly stick to online supply shops.

Maeve, hopefully you'll actually get something accomplished with that letter. I haven't written to that one crummy Petsmart before, but I have had chats both with the store manager and the Fish section staff many times about the poor quality of their fish, and every single time they act like they've never heard complaints before and are completely surprised that they have diseased and dead/dying fish in their store.


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## beweeb

:welldone: :welldone: :welldone: i was never at petsmart but i was at walmart :roll: :x :evil: :shake:


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## okiemavis

Surprise was pretty much the response I got from the manager. I used those two fish as examples because they were so obvious, there were certainly other sick fish. I mean seriously, if you can't identify a fish as sick when it has NO FINS why are you selling fish!?

Luckily, I have a great LFS. I just always like to check out the new places, and every single time it depresses me. Mostly because if people didn't shop there they would have to shape up or go out of business.


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## Tyyrlym

Ya know, I'll be honest. I haven't had any issues with Petsmart. While they aren't as up to snuff as my LFS they aren't a little shop of horrors either. There are three within five miles of my home (I have no idea why) and I have never seen a dead fish in any tank or any sign of serious disease. Admittedly I've only been cruising them for about a month but I stop by usually at least once a week and they seem to do pretty well. While I'm going to buy my fish from my LFS (prices actually beat Petsmart most of the time) I wouldn't feel _too_ nervous taking home a fish from any of the three.

Now the local Petco, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.


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## iamntbatman

I've found Petco to generally be slightly higher-quality than Petsmart but with higher prices. I don't buy anything from Petco except for their driftwood. That's the one good thing about the place: the Petco closest to me always has one of their tanks filled to the brim with decent-sized chunks of driftwood with even the biggest pieces going for $10. I can't argue with that.


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## willow

well done to you for sending that letter. 
these people are so silly,they would make far more money
if they looked after their live stock,as we would frequent
them more often.
my LFS will not sell any infected fish,and nearly always place a sticker on the tank,informing people of it being medicated.


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## Flashygrrl

It's always hit-or-miss with these stores. My local Petco musta gotten their behinds handed to them because they started putting signs on the tanks with the sickies saying they weren't for sale, and last time I was in poking my nose around someone that actually knew what they were talking about was working, and when I asked about a fish that they didn't have they actually recommended looking at one of the one of the good LFS's. PetSmart's actually getting worse, I think. Only good for the plants.


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## okiemavis

Unfortunately around where I live, Petsmart is actually BETTER than Petco. Blegh.


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## GeegaFish

Kudos from me too for writing the email, but I'm skeptical as to how much it will change things. I wonder if it would make any difference if all of us (with bad experiences) wrote?

I've had varying luck at both Petco and PetSmart. Unfortunately there aren't many stores left to shop at as they've driven all the LFS out of business near me. There are a couple left here and there, but their fish aren't much better. I even had a LFS owner complain to me that "there is no $ in fish" as she was selling me 2 Bettas and some guppies! What the???

I'm seriously thinking about just doing all my shopping online. I think I'll get more experienced fish keepers and better products.

Hmmm...maybe I will shoot an email or two off to Petco and PetSmart to let them know their quality is seriously lacking....


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## Cody

There is a Petco and a Petsmart in my city (pretty small suburban city, but it has _everything_, literally). I go to Petsmart probably every 1.5 weeks, as we have a dog, rabbit, and bird, and I have never seen any disease-full fish ever., and rarely a dead fish (which is still bad). The employees there are pretty smart as to fish stuff, though. I have got 4 fish from there, all doing great (3 red wag platies which is now 8, and 1 Clown Pleco).

As to Petco, I like their variety better, but all of their fish are tiny. And, I would never get anything SW from them unless it is like a bag of salt. As batman said, they do have really good driftwood for sale in the tanks and in the reptile section which I buy, but I have never bought a fish from them. Most employees there aren't too smart compared to 'Mart.


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## okiemavis

I got a pretty nice response from the store manager actually. I intend on emailing him back and asking him if he actually intends on educating his employees, and if they have a system for QT (as all the tanks are plumbed together). Here is his email:



> Dear Ms. O****,
> 
> We have just recently received your e-mail concerning the health and well being of the fish kept in our establishment. I would first like to say thank you for your e-mail as it shows your true compassion for fish keeping. Your most recent visit to our store left some concerns with you which is completely understandable, however I would like to share with you that we do try everyday to maintain great standards in our fish keeping. We are now looking at all of our fish to ensure that they are healthy, and ready to be purchased by our customers. If there is anything I can do for you please let me know. Again, thank you for the e-mail as it brings great awareness to our finned friends. If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to call me at 1-617-349-3481.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Scott Shanley
> 
> Store Manager
> 
> PetSmart


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## okiemavis

Blegh, unfortunately, the email address he sent from was a do-not-respond.

It sure is *cute* that he's looking at all the current fish, but won't really do much in the long run. In fact, him saying that means almost nothing to me. Sick fish will inevitably come in and they don't seem to have any way of dealing with them.

Rrr...I guess I'll call him. Not happy about it though! I'd much rather email!


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## Chrisseh

Hi- I stumbled onto your post. I LOVE fish, and also happen to work at a Petsmart. I completly agree with you all and am happy that you emailed the store manager. I would greatly recomend brand new petsmarts for supplies (because they get them before established stores do), however, I would NEVER ask their help for fish. The new store, although pretty and bright, have brand new employees. The best knowledged people are in your older stores. Petsmart does an okay job of educating us about fish, but it takes a long time (at least 3 months) for the common employee to have a decent amount of knowledge about fish. I am asked all the time if I know about fish. I tell the truth. I am still working on Cichlids, but am pretty competent on the rest of the fish we sell. I try to cite to the customer where my information comes from (besides for the very basics), so that they can cross-reference me. I even pull out books to explain things. Do I make mistakes - ofcourse. Do I know what ick looks like - yes. Do I know why a goldfish can't live in a bowl - how many reasons do you want? lol

I digress. . . give your older stores a try. Ask the employee their knowledge level. Heck, ask how long they have been employeed with Petsmart. Ask what other stores they like in the area. (Just to see if you agree with them) I would even ask if they like fish. We are required to know about all the animals, so we end up learning more about the ones that we like best. I hope you don't give up on us completly.


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## Jman26

I hate Petsmart so much! They recently took over an awsome pet store chain (SuperPet) and turned it into crap. The prices are way to high on many fish, some are loaded with Ich and they never have any sales on anything. Whos willing to pay for a skinny, pale, ich infested, tiny clown loach for over 12$, no joke. I hate it so much! 


**** Petsmart!


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## veganchick

petsmart usually has well cared for fish (exept the bettas) and employies that don't know nything!!!! lol


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## Cody

veganchick said:


> petsmart usually has well cared for fish (exept the bettas) and employies that don't know nything!!!! lol


That is most defiantley not true. I have only one Petsmart in my area that has decent fish. The other two or three, are terrible. The bettas are usually the best too.

I have noticed that Petco seems to be better, and not just with fish. Their reptiles are in great health and are cared for properly (at least all the ones I have seen). But then again, everything depends on the store.


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## wmoyer2006

iamntbatman said:


> On the opposite end of the spectrum, another Petsmart near me actually has some fairly well-informed employees. I've been to this store several times now, and each time I've actually witness them refuse to sell fish to people for all sorts of reasons (incompatible fish, hard fish to keep for beginners, people who were buying tanks at the time so obviously hadn't cycled their tanks yet, etc). Additionally, someone actually removed a lot of the official Petsmart information labels from the tanks and has replaced them with hand-written cards with information that's actually accurate. Not to mention their prices on certain equipment are much cheaper than my other LFS's, though they're generally more expensive than online shops.


As I am still a freshwater newbie it might not be as apparent to me as I would like it to be but...

The Petsmart near my home (State College, Pa. Home of the Nittany Lions!!!) is actually very, very nice. The staff are very thoughtful, caring and all the aquatic life, even thier plants, are well taken care of. I have yet to see anything inside of the store that worried me save for one Oscar that was already quarentined. I did check to see if the tank that he was in had a note on it saying that there was a sick fish, but there wasn't a sign there.

Anyway, there is another store a couple towns away from home that is, like Batman said, with absolutely abysmal conditions.

Reguardless it doesn't make much of a difference to me. The only thing that I buy at Petsmart is decor, as they have a bigger selection than the local Pet Store. Speaking of the local Pet Store the gentlemen that owns it could write an encyclopeida on Saltwater, Freshwater, Filters, Skimmers and anything else aquarium related.


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## dramaqueen

I always thought that my Petsmart had "fairly" knowledgeable employees but I'm not so sure now. I asked one of their managers some cycling questions and he told me that even the little cups the bettas are kept in will cycle.


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## doctorb

Maybe I've been unlucky but the two non-chain pet stores around me suck so bad petsmart looks great in comparison. One guy has a wall of fish but he won't even try to answer questions, which I suppose is better than giving the wrong answer, he gives out a business card of some kid who thinks he knows stuff but doesn't. This kid told me to chlorinate the water just a tiny bit to get rid of nitrates. The other place is only fish and I've never seen the owner, maybe he knows his stuff, but the employees are rude and the place is filthy. There's dead fish all over the floor under every tank and the prices are double petsmart. I finally met a guy who does credit card processing and his side job is fish, so next time I need something I'll try him.

But I've always found petsmart to be clean and friendly and with decent prices. And you can find experts online for the tough questions.


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## dramaqueen

I don't understand how a store with dead fish all over the place stays open. You'd think they would get reported.


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## Tyyrlym

There's not a whole lot of concern over dead fish.

Cute fuzzy animals being mistreated, that's a crime.
Fish dying is seafood.

Just the perception many people have.


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## dramaqueen

Why is it that people don't view fish like they would any other pet?


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## Tyyrlym

You can't cuddle them. They aren't conventionally "cute." Few people will eat rabbit, cat, or dog but almost everyone eats fish.


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## watts300

Tyyrlym said:


> You can't cuddle them. They aren't conventionally "cute." Few people will eat rabbit, cat, or dog but almost everyone eats fish.


You have to admit, though, that fish intelligence isn't also as high as other four-legged pets. Animals that act on instinct alone are looked down upon. I'm not sure that's a horrible thing, it's just human nature. 


Insects act on instinct, also. They look for food and mates, just like fish, rather exclusively. If we had the same sentiment towards bugs as fish, our homes would be over run with vermin. 
Cats and dogs not only seek life's essentials, they also desire love and companionship. They all want to be petted, have friends, and they don't like to be disciplined or punished. 



Some might say that their fish are highly intelligent. Maybe their behavior is habit and ritualistic? (not the people) Who knows. I'm not "siding" with places that don't care about the critters they sell, because I have pets, too. I have a cat and I sure enjoy my fish. I guess I'm just playing the devil's advocate.


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## dramaqueen

I agree that fish aren't exactly high on the totem pole when it comes to intelligence but I don't think they are stupid either. I do think that some people think of them as a kind of "ornament" that they can just throw away when they get tired of it.


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## m1aman

reminds of when i was a kid and hunters would say they refuse to hunt on sunday. didn't want to kill anything on the lords day. so what would they do? go fishing instead............


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## Tyyrlym

watts300 said:


> You have to admit, though, that fish intelligence isn't also as high as other four-legged pets. Animals that act on instinct alone are looked down upon. I'm not sure that's a horrible thing, it's just human nature.
> 
> Insects act on instinct, also. They look for food and mates, just like fish, rather exclusively. If we had the same sentiment towards bugs as fish, our homes would be over run with vermin.
> Cats and dogs not only seek life's essentials, they also desire love and companionship. They all want to be petted, have friends, and they don't like to be disciplined or punished.
> 
> Some might say that their fish are highly intelligent. Maybe their behavior is habit and ritualistic? (not the people) Who knows. I'm not "siding" with places that don't care about the critters they sell, because I have pets, too. I have a cat and I sure enjoy my fish. I guess I'm just playing the devil's advocate.


Except that there are plenty of fish who demonstrate many of the very characteristics you ascribe to four legged animals.

Most of my fish have learned to associate my presence with food. My guppies, who once wouldn't come near me, will now eat out of my hand. My RTBS, who spent her first month with me hiding any time I came on the side of the room with the QT tank, now happily accepts my presence near the tank without much complaint. My betta spent all his time hiding when I got close to the tank now I actually have to physically move him away from the other fish's food to keep him from munching it all. If they were 100% instinctual they would still all run like they did when first introduced.

Ask someone with an oscar if their fish is any less of a pet than a dog or cat, or any less interactive.

I would argue that the affection or friendship dogs seek in people is instinctual. They're pack animals, and without any other dogs around they will gravitate towards the other creature who is there for them. My cories seek out the companionship of their own kind. They spend most of their time close by, even resting right next to one another.

I'm not trying to denegrate cats, dogs, or other creatures we keep as pets but people tend to over credit things they like and under credit those they don't.


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## watts300

Well, Tyy, you and I will have to agree to disagree about the nature of domesticated dogs.

But I can attest to my fish also associating me with food. Meh... This topic isn't worthy of being argued over though. 
We all like all our pets. Nuff said.


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## watts300

m1aman said:


> reminds of when i was a kid and hunters would say they refuse to hunt on sunday. didn't want to kill anything on the lords day. so what would they do? go fishing instead............


And that reminds me of a brief conversation I had with a Catholic friend of mine a few days ago. I asked if he wanted to go have sushi on Friday (which is now today, Good Friday). He commented on it being okay because he can't otherwise eat any other meat.

I then inquired about Lent.. etc.. etc... without either of us looking it up, we agreed that other animals' meat is sacrificed while fish/seafood is not because the Apostles were fishermen.


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## jr.masterbreeder

I have to agree with the earlier post about the individual stores.
I've lived in 3 different states and never had a problem with petsmart,
The knowledge does lack a bit, but I'll apply at my local one s soon as I turn 17... (Dec 13th)
I've been keeping fish for 5 years now...
All the way from Guppies to Cichlids which is what I'm on right now.
I do also dare to say that I've had every fish petsmart has carried in the past 4 1/2-5 years...
I've moved so many times out of state. 
My parents refused to move the fish also...
I just gave them to local "ma&pa" stores of great quality.


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## froglady

Good for you. maybe they will take better care of their fish. Ive seen terrible conditions at walmart. fish dieing. and problems, they finally stopped selling at that walmart. I think people should be trained on how to care for tropical fish of any kind.


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## dramaqueen

It aggravates me that petstore employees tell people its ok to put a male and female betta together in a gallon bowl.


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## RATTIE

dramaqueen said:


> It aggravates me that petstore employees tell people its ok to put a male and female betta together in a gallon bowl.


At the petsmart by me an employe told some one that they could breed Bettas in a one gallon tank:evil: they also sell cages that are way to small and food that has weed killer in it:shock: but they take better care of the animals then any of the smaller pet stores by me.


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## dramaqueen

How can you raise hundreds of fry in a one gallon container??


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## mwalk90

I was just at petsmart about an hour ago, I asked the employee in the fish department why one of the jack dempsys was black and gray and he responded "Who knows, fish are weird."


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## Arkamaic

mwalk90 said:


> I was just at petsmart about an hour ago, I asked the employee in the fish department why one of the jack dempsys was black and gray and he responded "Who knows, fish are weird."


ROFL!

But my local Petsmart isn't too bad. There is a guy there who actually knows what he is talking about, I overheard him talkin about the nitrogen cycle to a kid getting his first tank, and he was right about it.


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## Solarfall

I actually work at Petco, and I've recently undertaken the fish department since the other guy left. And it was a massive undertaking.

What a lot of people don't realize is how hard it really is to maintain this many fish with the supplies we're given. We have no quarentine tanks, inadaquate store use food, inadequate means of treating illnesses, and abyssmally overcrowded tanks. Not to mention our protein skimmers don't even work and WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A FREAKING RO UNIT!!! This is corperate America at work for you. My hands are pretty much tied when saltwater gets ick, which is often. With no QT tanks I'm left to do low-salinity "dips" with specimen cups contantly which presents a whole new array of problems itself. Our store manager couldn't even help me out if he wanted to, this is all BS from the higher-ups. We are literally screwed.

That doesn't mean our department isn't well-kept, but it takes absolutely every single one of my 35 hours or so in a workweek to keep them alive. Seriously, the corperate managers cut us no breaks as far as resources. I'm constantly juggling between sick fish, helping customers, keeping my department clean and organized, doing water changes, and a multitude of other issues.

Another thing people don't realize is that most of the employees at a place like Petco or Petsmart are barely making more than minimum wage, and getting raises is not easy. So hiring a marine biologist at $8.50 an hour is pretty heinous to expect. Any given store is lucky to even have one or two people that have any idea what they're talking about. We have one or two people per type of animal that are great and can explain things well, the rest are basically work horses. And going there when one of those people are there is a hit-or-miss. Luckily for our Petco, our old fish guy was suffering economic problems and was forced to get a job there. He made aquatics into a brand new department and knew anything our customers could've needed to know. We were told we had one of the best aquatic departments in the entire company, actually. But now I'm maintaining everything and it's beyond brutal. This is around 1260 gallons in fish tanks (including sumps) with equipment that isn't up date.

All I'm saying is, don't hate the individual store. Hate the company as a whole. I personally think fish stores should be kept seperate from regular pet stores, because there is a lot more to know and a lot more maintainence neccesary for fish than hamsters or snakes.


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