# 20 gallon long compatability/stocking help



## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

So now my tank has 3 additional members:2 Julii Corys and 1 Otocinclus. So the full stock so far is as follows: 3 bloodfin tetras 2 julii corys and 1 oto. In the future, i want to add at least 2 more corys. I also want some more bloodfins. Can i mix another tetra species with my 3 bloodfins or do they need members of their own species to be more "consent"? So pretty much i want a good combination of catfish and tetras and hopefully a more diverse tank if the bloodfins will enjoy the company of other species.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Any tetra you have in your tank needs at least 6 of the same species. You will need to increase the numbers of your bloodfin school before you add another school. Your cories also need a larger school. Four or five makes a small but nice cory school. So go ahead and add two or three more cories. Your oto also needs some company; like the cories, they need schools of four or more.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

ty thekoimaiden. I never knew otos needed schools. everytime i see someone elses tank there oto looks fine on their own...i will be adding 2 or 3 more cories. would my tank be too overstocked with 6 bloodfins, 4 or 5 juliis and 1 oto? i dont plan on getting another oto until i see any "signs"
signs of the oto needing a friend that is.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

A school of bloodfin and a school of cories won't overstock your tank. All of these fish have rather small bioloads. 

One of the reasons you don't see more than one oto at a time is they are very secretive. Some people can add them to tanks and not see them for months. I opted out of getting them for just this reason.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

If you "notice" a problem with the oto, it's likely too late to do anything about it. Remember, just because a fish is off by itself doesn't mean that it doesn't take comfort in having numbers in the tank.

You have room for proper schools of all three, and maybe a honey gourami for a centerpiece fish.


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

thenewguy said:


> So now my tank has 3 additional members:2 Julii Corys and 1 Otocinclus. So the full stock so far is as follows: 3 bloodfin tetras 2 julii corys and 1 oto. In the future, i want to add at least 2 more corys. I also want some more bloodfins. Can i mix another tetra species with my 3 bloodfins or do they need members of their own species to be more "consent"? So pretty much i want a good combination of catfish and tetras and hopefully a more diverse tank if the bloodfins will enjoy the company of other species.


Rummy nose tetra's, harlequin rasbora's, Add a couple more Otto's, You can also get a pleco.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

thx guys. i am sorry to inform that my oto died yesterday for unknown reasons. luckily i have the reciept for where i bought him and i can get a new fish. it is still very sad though...  so if i had 6 bloodfins, 5 corys, and 4 otos my tank would be full? And like one of you said ( couldnt remember name :/) i might be able to get a honey gourami?

EDIT: instead of a school of otos, could i get a bristlenose pleco? my LFS has one left


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

thenewguy said:


> thx guys. i am sorry to inform that my oto died yesterday for unknown reasons. luckily i have the reciept for where i bought him and i can get a new fish. it is still very sad though...  so if i had 6 bloodfins, 5 corys, and 4 otos my tank would be full? And like one of you said ( couldnt remember name :/) i might be able to get a honey gourami?
> 
> EDIT: instead of a school of otos, could i get a bristlenose pleco? my LFS has one left


bristlenose pleco only grows 8", Honey gourami 2", otto's 1", bloodfin 2", cory's depending on what kind 2-8". 

you can have 4 bloodfin tetra's 8", 1 bristlenose pleco 8", up to 3 peppered cory's.

or 6 bloodfins, and 1 bristlenose pleco.

or 1 male honey gourami 2", 1 male dwarf gourami, 4 bloodfins, and 4 cory's.

or 1 honey gourami 2", 1 bristlenose pleco 8", 3 bloodfins, and 3 cory's.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

ok. the kind of cory i have is julii which grow to 2" max. and on this site the profile for the bristlenose pleco says that it would be fine with other fish in a 20 gallon. plus with 3-4 otos instead of the pleco, the total inch value would be 6-8 sooo.... bristelnose pleco would be a fine substitute for otos IMO.

EDIT: newtchaplin, it says ur tank has only 2 otos, are they doing fine in a small group? maybe i could just put two of those in?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I would probably go for the otos over the pleco. Pleco tend to have a very large bioload and are basically poop machines. They also stray away from algae when they get older and need more meat in their diets. Otos are true algae eaters that will keep your tank clean for life. 

If you went with those, a good stocking plan would be: 5 cories, 4 otos, 7 tetra, and 1 honey gourami. Putting two male gourami in a tank of this size is not a good idea as they will not have sufficient space to establish territories.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

2-8" for corys?? Try 2-3". Emerald corys can exceed 4 inches, but they aren't really corys. Also, 8" is pretty big for a BN. The size of a BN is largely dependent on the sex of the fish - females being smaller.

I agree - the tank isn't anywhere near large enough for 2 species of gourami. Also, blood fins should be kept in larger groups.

If you can't keep a proper school, then you shouldn't keep the fish. It is not acceptable to only keep a couple fish because that's all you have room for. That's part of the responsibility


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Don't forget 8" bloodfin tetra? Uhh, we have profiles that say fish sizes.

You know- it's much more rewarding to keep a full school of fish and watch them interact with each other than it is to have a few lonesome fish that will likely be dull and shy.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

ok. ty guys for all the help  i guess i will eventually have 7 tetras, 5 corys, 4 otos, and a honey gourami. And i kinda think 5 corys and 4 otos is alot for a tank.... better stock up on bottom feeder pellets 

EDIT: only other question i have is if the otos will be ok again back in my tank. if the first one i had died within 3 days maybe my water cant support them. anyone care to enlighten me?


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> I would probably go for the otos over the pleco. Pleco tend to have a very large bioload and are basically poop machines. They also stray away from algae when they get older and need more meat in their diets. Otos are true algae eaters that will keep your tank clean for life.
> 
> If you went with those, a good stocking plan would be: 5 cories, 4 otos, 7 tetra, and 1 honey gourami. Putting two male gourami in a tank of this size is not a good idea as they will not have sufficient space to establish territories.


Your right two male gourami's would be a bad idea. I have one male to 3 females. And only have one male in my 20 with 6 cory's. Pleco's are known to be algae eaters but in reality they can not survive with only algae. Otto's are better for algae eating.


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

thenewguy said:


> ok. the kind of cory i have is julii which grow to 2" max. and on this site the profile for the bristlenose pleco says that it would be fine with other fish in a 20 gallon. plus with 3-4 otos instead of the pleco, the total inch value would be 6-8 sooo.... bristelnose pleco would be a fine substitute for otos IMO.
> 
> EDIT: newtchaplin, it says ur tank has only 2 otos, are they doing fine in a small group? maybe i could just put two of those in?


I have only had 2 per tank they swim and chill with all 7 cory's. Lots of plants for shelter and turned over small pots for hides. They say you need 4+ but no you don't. All 4 otto's are around 4 years old and doing very well.


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

jaysee said:


> 2-8" for corys?? Try 2-3". Emerald corys can exceed 4 inches, but they aren't really corys. Also, 8" is pretty big for a BN. The size of a BN is largely dependent on the sex of the fish - females being smaller.
> 
> I agree - the tank isn't anywhere near large enough for 2 species of gourami. Also, blood fins should be kept in larger groups.
> 
> If you can't keep a proper school, then you shouldn't keep the fish. It is not acceptable to only keep a couple fish because that's all you have room for. That's part of the responsibility


there are over 142 species of corydoras, and they range from 1"-4.7", not including the giant emerald which grows 4-6". Yes females are larger then males. Anyone is allowed to do and stock a tank anyway they see fit.


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

thenewguy said:


> ok. ty guys for all the help  i guess i will eventually have 7 tetras, 5 corys, 4 otos, and a honey gourami. And i kinda think 5 corys and 4 otos is alot for a tank.... better stock up on bottom feeder pellets
> 
> EDIT: only other question i have is if the otos will be ok again back in my tank. if the first one i had died within 3 days maybe my water cant support them. anyone care to enlighten me?


Don't use water from your garden hose, contains traces of rubber or other chemicals. Always use water conditioner before adding to tank. Or leave water out for 24 hours. Do a 100% water change and clean and sanitize everything in the tank. Boil all bedding for 45-60 min. If you had an outbreak of any kind it will be in the tank if you just fill up and start again. Take it down and sanitize the crap out of it.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

newtchaplin said:


> there are over 142 species of corydoras, and they range from 1"-4.7", not including the giant emerald which grows 4-6". Yes females are larger then males. Anyone is allowed to do and stock a tank anyway they see fit.


Then why did you say cories get to 8"? As well as bloodfins and BNs.

Hmm, I think the cories and Otos are fine together. They are sensitive imports so that may be why your first one died.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

newtchaplin said:


> there are over 142 species of corydoras, and they range from 1"-4.7", not including the giant emerald which grows 4-6". Yes females are larger then males. Anyone is allowed to do and stock a tank anyway they see fit.


As I said, the emerald cory is not a cory. So tell me about this 8 inch cory of which you speak. Female BN plecos are not larger than males.



I have NEVER had to boil or sanitize the crap out of anything in any of my tanks. That is waaaaaay overkill. You are never going to have a perfectly clean environment for the fish, just like you and I will never have a perfectly clean living space. Diseases and such are EVERYWHERE, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's why it's important to keep the fish as stress free as possible, so that their immune systems can handle it. That's why it's important to keep fish in proper schools and the like. No doubt people can keep fish alive in less than ideal conditions for years - there are plenty of videos on youtube of awfully stocked tanks. That doesn't make it okay to keep the fish in equally poor conditions, because someone else does it.

But at the end of the day, it's your tank, and you are the one that has to look at it everyday.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

If someone is on a forum for advice, then we can assume they want the best advice possible and that's what we do. ;-)


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Olympia said:


> If someone is on a forum for advice, then we can assume they want the best advice possible and that's what we do. ;-)


Hahaha, I've been on forums long enough to know that that is not always the case :lol: There are plenty of people that get mad when they don't get the advice they were hoping to hear. Many only come here looking for approval of what they want to do.

But the second half is correct - we primarily provide advice on what's best for the fish.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

thx guys. well i guess i understand what im going to put in the tank, as well as how to properly care for the fish i put in it.  final stock: 7 tetras, 5 corys, 3-4 otos, 1 honey.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Regarding the otos - I would start some algae cultures for them so they don't starve, which is one of the most common reasons they die. You can do this by getting some big rocks and putting them in glasses with water, on the windowsill. This way, you can have a rotation of rocks to put in the tank to keep them continually fed.


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

Olympia said:


> Then why did you say cories get to 8"? As well as bloodfins and BNs.
> 
> Hmm, I think the cories and Otos are fine together. They are sensitive imports so that may be why your first one died.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok obviously I was wrong when I said that. BNs are 8", bloodfins are 2.2", cory's 1-4"


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

jaysee said:


> As I said, the emerald cory is not a cory. So tell me about this 8 inch cory of which you speak. Female BN plecos are not larger than males.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You must be on crack, I live in a clean living space, so do all my fish. Overkill that is the difference between me and you, I would do everything in my power to save the rest of the fish and not just say "well its everywhere" it got there somehow, so you can take it out.



jaysee said:


> As I said, the emerald cory is not a cory. So tell me about this 8 inch cory of which you speak. Female BN plecos are not larger than males. I never said that, I was talking about cory's. If you go to big al's they have a giant emerald cory. Yes they are cory's, and whom ever told you different was full of crap. They are considered armoured cat fish. All litature on them say they are a cory.
> 
> You might own fish and all but you are not a good fish person, stick to what you know not what you think you know.


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

jaysee said:


> Regarding the otos - I would start some algae cultures for them so they don't starve, which is one of the most common reasons they die. You can do this by getting some big rocks and putting them in glasses with water, on the windowsill. This way, you can have a rotation of rocks to put in the tank to keep them continually fed.



Or just get some algae tabs.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

newtchaplin said:


> You must be on crack, I live in a clean living space, so do all my fish. Overkill that is the difference between me and you, I would do everything in my power to save the rest of the fish and not just say "well its everywhere" it got there somehow, so you can take it out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

thenewguy said:


> thx guys. well i guess i understand what im going to put in the tank, as well as how to properly care for the fish i put in it.  final stock: 7 tetras, 5 corys, 3-4 otos, 1 honey.



If you only have a 20 gallon tank and you are putting all those fish in you are looking at 30" of fish for a 20 gallon tank. Overstocked, you will lose fish over time. You need to put in 20" of fish for a 20 gallon tank, 30 gallon 30" of fish, and so on.

1" per gallon


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

"Emerald cories" belong to the genus Brochis, not Corydoras. Basic nomenclature right there.
Plecos are also called armored catfish, the loricariidae family is also known as the armored catfishes.
Just like Celestial pearl danios are marketed as "Galaxy rasbora" doesn't mean they are rasbora. Dealers will just stick a name onto a fish and sell it as whatever.


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

jaysee said:


> newtchaplin said:
> 
> 
> > You must be on crack, I live in a clean living space, so do all my fish. Overkill that is the difference between me and you, I would do everything in my power to save the rest of the fish and not just say "well its everywhere" it got there somehow, so you can take it out.
> ...


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

newtchaplin said:


> I had 2 otto's in a 20 gallon and it was one day old not even cycled.


Maybe one day I will be as good of a fish keeper.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

newtchaplin said:


> If you only have a 20 gallon tank and you are putting all those fish in you are looking at 30" of fish for a 20 gallon tank. Overstocked, you will lose fish over time. You need to put in 20" of fish for a 20 gallon tank, 30 gallon 30" of fish, and so on.
> 
> 1" per gallon


This rule only applies to fish with a body-shape like small tetra. This rule is no longer considered a sound rule to go by. It also doesn't take swimming space (which there is a lot more of in a 20G long) and territoriality into account. We now look at width more than we look at length because two fish can be the same length, but have very different widths. Width as well as diet are a much better indicator of bioload than length of the fish. I can have 50" worth of oscar in my 50 gallon tank and be grossly overstocked.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

newtchaplin said:


> If you only have a 20 gallon tank and you are putting all those fish in you are looking at 30" of fish for a 20 gallon tank. Overstocked, you will lose fish over time. You need to put in 20" of fish for a 20 gallon tank, 30 gallon 30" of fish, and so on.
> 
> 1" per gallon



This rule is so wrong. By your logic, my imaginary 10" tiger oscar can live in a 10 gallon tank.
So many things contribute to stocking, not only length but girth. Believe it or not a 10" rope fish will produce significantly less waste than a 10" bichir, due to girth. Diet as well, some fish naturally produce less was than others.
Lose fish "over time"? Happens to everyone, fish get old and die. This tank is not overstocked, the bottom and mid areas are balanced out, and as long as the OP monitors and prevents toxins all is fine, live plants help out in this a lot.

This is getting just plain silly.

Edit: Oh pooo Izzy beat me. xD
Edit II: We used the same example Izzy!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Haha! That is funny. Same example, different size tanks. We could also use the example of a 30 inch arowana in a 30 gal tank so it's something that's not a cichlid or cyprinid.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

The one inch per gallon "rule" is good for beginners, but once one gets some experience under their belt, the shortfalls and limitations become apparent. It's a rite of passage for new fish keepers - breaking away from the "rule".


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

well i see while i was gone for a couple hours you guys turned the post into a big argument XD. well i am sorry to say that i went against your advise and went with a BN pleco. which, btw, only get 6" maybe 7" not 8". and IMO the BN seemed like a better choice as compared to 3-4 oto's.

EDIT: i also understand their bioload is more as well. if i went with the 3-4 otos the bioload would have been different? i know im not an expert fishkeeper but 3-4 2" fish seem to produce the same bioload total as a 6"-7" fish.

EDIT2: most important question!!! i have been looking at Bolivian Rams. Is there any possible way i could fit 1 pair in my tank if i stuck with 6 tetras, my 1 BN, and 2 juliis? i am willing to get rid of my bloodfins for these amazing rams. I need answer now though cuz i dont want to buy my other 3 tetras and find out that if i get rid of them i could get rams.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

No, the 3-4 small fish are not necessarily equal to one big fish. It's not a linear relationship. For example, a twig catfish and the BN are the same size roughly, but the body cavity of the BN is much larger, which means higher waste output.

Provided you have sufficient filtration and perform the required maintenance, the bioload should not be an issue regardless.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

ok then. so any opinion on me adding a pair of rams?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I think you could do it, considering the stock you mentioned.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

ok thx for all your help jaysee  i just hope my corys will be ok in their small group......well, better stock up on fish food! i already have 2 tetra flakes, 1 bottom feeder pellet bag, and 1 algae wafer bag. and now i need some cichlid food! im gonna have alot of food


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

The Corys aren't going to die - IME they just won't be very active.

You are better off just switching to one high quality staple food. NLS is the best, IMO. The 1 mm pellet size is perfect.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

thx again jaysee, ur a lifesaver  and my corys are usually out and about and i only have 2 right now so i think ill be ok. i also might decide to increase my cory pop. by 2 or 3 and just go with 1 ram. would rams be happier in a pair than alone?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

You're quite welcome.

I have 2 (not a pair) and while they interact with each other at times, they generally don't have anything to do with each other. 1 Bolivian will do fine by itself.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

ok. guess i just gotta make the decision and go with it....plus get some more plants and driftwood!:lol:


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

thenewguy said:


> well i see while i was gone for a couple hours you guys turned the post into a big argument XD. well i am sorry to say that i went against your advise and went with a BN pleco. which, btw, only get 6" maybe 7" not 8". and IMO the BN seemed like a better choice as compared to 3-4 oto's.
> 
> EDIT: i also understand their bioload is more as well. if i went with the 3-4 otos the bioload would have been different? i know im not an expert fishkeeper but 3-4 2" fish seem to produce the same bioload total as a 6"-7" fish.
> 
> EDIT2: most important question!!! i have been looking at Bolivian Rams. Is there any possible way i could fit 1 pair in my tank if i stuck with 6 tetras, my 1 BN, and 2 juliis? i am willing to get rid of my bloodfins for these amazing rams. I need answer now though cuz i dont want to buy my other 3 tetras and find out that if i get rid of them i could get rams.


If you do all the research on all the fish you want to use then you will know what to use and what not to.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I love plants and driftwood. :-D


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

newtchaplin said:


> If you do all the research on all the fish you want to use then you will know what to use and what not to.


Well there you have it Newguy. Now you know what you have to do


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## newtchaplin (Oct 19, 2011)

jaysee said:


> 2-8" for corys?? Try 2-3". Emerald corys can exceed 4 inches, but they aren't really corys. Also, 8" is pretty big for a BN. The size of a BN is largely dependent on the sex of the fish - females being smaller.
> 
> I agree - the tank isn't anywhere near large enough for 2 species of gourami. Also, blood fins should be kept in larger groups.
> 
> If you can't keep a proper school, then you shouldn't keep the fish. It is not acceptable to only keep a couple fish because that's all you have room for. That's part of the responsibility


Maybe I should do my research before I talk, sorry.

Emerald cory are often confused with members of the _Corydoras_ genus. In fact, the fish commonly identified as the "emerald cory" is usually actually _Brochis splendens_. They can be told apart from _Corydoras_ by the fact that _Brochis_ has a deeper body and a higher number of dorsal fin rays.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I know my fish. Emeralds have 13 dorsal rays where bronze (most commonly confused) only have 7. In other words, the dorsal fin of the brochis extends back to the adipose fin.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Olympia said:


> "Emerald cories" belong to the genus Brochis, not Corydoras. Basic nomenclature right there.
> Plecos are also called armored catfish, the loricariidae family is also known as the armored catfishes.
> Just like Celestial pearl danios are marketed as "Galaxy rasbora" doesn't mean they are rasbora. Dealers will just stick a name onto a fish and sell it as whatever.


Like.. 2 pages ago.
Does no one listen to me? :-(


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

wow, i really screwed up. i didn't pay attention to julii cory water temp regulations and raised it to 80-81F so my bloodfins, and when i get it, my ram would be more comfortable. So within 24 hours my 2 corys exhibited strange behaivior i.e. swimming near the top of the tank. so now i only have 1 left  and he is still acting strange even after i turned down the temp and i fear it is only a matter of time before he passes on........however, i discovered a different cory species (peppered cory) which can withstand 80F water and i will add those instead. only problem i see is that i dont know if my LFS carrys them and i also dont know how big they get. now i go research!!!!

EDIT:..........lthe fish profile on this forum says for the pepper cory "do not keep at high temperatures" so now i really am screwed....


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

My juliis do fine for the summer at 82, and survived their heat treatment (86) while in quarantine just fine. I highly doubt the temp was responsible.

Why is it that you think the tank needs to be in the 80's? None of the fish you want to keep need it that warm.


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

than what would have caused my corys to act like that and just die? they seemd to be doing great.....oh and on a sidenote i just checked my tank again and my 1 julii seems to have stopped acting strange.

EDIT: what temp should i keep it at then since i will have a ram, bloodfins and corys?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

You shouldn't have the tank in the 80's anyway.

I don't know, perhaps you raised the temp too quickly?


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## thenewguy (Jul 31, 2012)

oh that would probably be why.....i had the temp at around 75 and raised it right away to 81 instead of doing it gradually.......so what temp. should i keep it at?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

75  I guess that should be a frown, since you lost a fish in the process.

To be honest though, I don't gradually raise the temp when I do quarantine heat treatments. The heater is set to 86 and I just plug it in, so the temp goes straight from high 70's to 86.


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