# My fresh water fish have MAJOR issues(many)



## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok I am having several issues with my tank. I am a new tank owner only had them 2 wks. They either keep dieing or are acting strange.

I have Mollies, Guppies, tetra, and 2 small algy eaters. I have a 30 gal tank, I treat the water with conditioner and a little auqm salt. I do partial water changes 2 times a wk right now sense im having so many probs right now but only doing about a 20% change. I have had SEVERAL Guppies die and my Mollies are shaking, darting, swimming up right and rubbing on things. I have finally gotten the stuff needed to test the water and here are my readings....Nitrate 20, Nitrite 0, Hardness 150, Alkalinty 180, PH 8.4. I have put in a PH lower which has now gotten it down to about 7.6. I have also put a pariste medication in it so at this time i dont not have my filter in it. The parisite meds seem to be helping its been 48 hrs and I dont beleive I have seen them rubbing on anything or swimming up right any more so hoppfully that prob is gone. However my guppies still seem to be dieing, not really swimming much, when i turn on the light in the mornings they are either laying on the bottom or just floating in a conner. They just dont seem to be acting normal. Is there something I am doing wrong??? I there something I need to add to the water? I just want a happy tank!! Please help me!!


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## magpie (Nov 7, 2011)

Did you test your ammonia?


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

That is the only thing I have yet to test. I got for everything but that. I will go get that stuff today. What should my Ammonia be reading wise?


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Kara1979 said:


> That is the only thing I have yet to test. I got for everything but that. I will go get that stuff today. What should my Ammonia be reading wise?


Ammonia should be zero. Did you cycle this tank at all before adding fish or did you cycle the tank with fish?


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

It was cycled when I bought it however it had more than a 50% water change so I did add the bacteria in with it the first time. It was with fish.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Also the PH lower and the medication has now been in there for 48 hrs. Can I put my filter back in now??


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

First, stop adding the PH chemicals to the water. They only work short term and the ph swings could be more harmful to your fish than gradual ph changes when you do water changes. What is the PH out of your tap water?

As for meds., which med are you using and what are you trying to treat? Do you know for sure that you have a parasite issue? If the fish are flashing and rubbing, they might have ICH. Are there visible signs of ICH (fish look like they've been sprinkled with salt) or another real parasite?

And what type of filter are you using? You should be running your filter but without charcoal while you are treating the tank.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok got ya...I will stop using the ph adjuster. The reading straight out of the tap is....PH is i think it reads 7.8, and everything else is still the same as the last readings. I can really lower the PH with water changes? I just did one 2 days ago and it was still high am I not taking enough out? What could raise my PH?? My Ammonia is if im reading it right at the "stress" level of .5 What needs to be done there?

Meds: Im just using an over all parisites fiz tablet. I got the one that had all their symptoms on it because I read that when they dart/shaking, swim up right, or rub on things its a parisite. I bought them out of the store doing that. So im trying to treat whatever is making them do that. Like I said they have stopped doing that for the most part. I do know what ICH looks like and it is for sure not that. They dont have any visible probs out side except their tail fins are jagged but I thought maybe the tetras where fin picking. 

Filter: ok didnt explain myself good enough on that. I have been running the filter yes but took out the charcoal filter before I put the meds in sorry about typing that wrong.

Also another piece of info I have not shared is I also have a 10 gal tank with baby fry in it. I have both molly and guppy fry. That tank has the same readings as well but sense my tap water is not reading that at first then I have to be doing something wrong. 

By the way thank you for all your great info!!


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Your tap water PH is slightly above neutral and most fish will do ok with that. However, you should check the Tropical Fish Profiles (top of the main page of the forum - LH side) for each of your fish types in the tank and see what the best paramaters are for each type. You can always rehome fish or see if the store will take them back for store credit if you have fish that aren't going to do well in your tank.

You should also check your tap water for ammonia. Some people do have trace amounts in there to begin with. Frequent water changes (especially when fish are sick) and treating the tap water with a really good conditioner like Seachem Prime will go a long way in getting your fish healthy. 

Prime also neutralizes ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours or so when added to the tank and new water. 

As for the charcoal, it's not really necessary until you want to remove meds. from your tank. Follow the manufacturers dosage suggestions and length of time when using any meds. and then when you're done, charcoal should be added to the filter to remove the remaining meds in the tank.

It's really hard to determine what your fish have without physical symptoms or pictures. If it were me (and it's not), I would not treat with anything unless you know for sure what is going on or if there really is a true illness. Shredded fins could just be bacterial fin rot or nipping like you said.

Can you be more specific about the algae eaters? Are they plecos, otos, or chinese algae eaters? Scaleless fish are sensitive to salt and otos are pretty picky about water conditions. Chinese algae eaters are fairly aggressive too - especially when they mature.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

My bottom feeders are small, one is a Pelco, there other I dont know what its called but its only about an inch long mayber a little more, kind of gray brown with a black strip down its side. He stays hidden for the most part except at feeding time. Both are pretty mello and never seem to bother any of the others and seem to be doing great.

So should i treat for the ammonia or not?? Something has to be stressing/killing them.


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Kara1979 said:


> So should i treat for the ammonia or not?? Something has to be stressing/killing them.


Yes. ALWAYS treat for ammonia. Ammonia is the fastest way to kill a fish and not know what happened if you hadn't tested the water. I'm still confused on your whole set-up though. You said you bought it already cycled...with those same fish? Or did you buy it from someone cycled and then added these fish? A lot of people make the mistake of using guppies and mollies during the cycling process, because of how 'hardy' they are, but it causes problematic long term results. And how did you know the tank was cycled? How long had the tank been established before you bought it? Because my tank is a hand-me-down established tank and I didn't experience these problems when ading new fish. Your nitrate readings shouldn't be that high. That's borderline unsafe. It just sounds like there's something missing...


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Oh and another thing..since you're "new"....unless there's a significant amount of algae actually visible in your tank, those algae eaters won't be eating very well. If there's no algae, you need to supplement them with algae wafers, like Hikari Algae Wafers. Plecos will outgrow a 30 gallon, i just had to get rid of mine, but i don't have any algae anyway. Be careful on the amount of algae eaters you get.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok yes my tank I bought off someone who had it set of for a long time. It had several BIG fish in it that I rehomed because I dont want big fish I want the pretty guppies and mollies. lol So I added the fish after I reset up the tank. However a LOT of the water was removed so it could be moved easier. So I assumed it should have been cycle. The one small alge eater eats more flakes than alge lol I do feed them alge disc because I knew I didnt have much alge. However sense I treated for parisite and have had the carbon filter out it seems to be growing some because both mollies and guppies are going through and picking at all the plants and stuff like that. I have large gravel bits instead of small so the do a lot of cleaning lol 

I totaly agree it seems like something is missing. I have had a tank before a few yrs back for several yrs but it had Oscars in it and they are impossible to kill LOL So never had any issues at all! I will treat for the ammonia and nitrate and see if that perks them up. At this point as I sit here and watch my tank...Most of my guppies except 2 males act really good. Swimming all over the tank and cleaning plants. My Mollies all except one of my males are acting really good as well now too. They are going through and cleaning swimming breading all that. My Tetras and bottom feeders have been fine the whole time. The male guppies and moly they just act slugish staying on the bottom of the tank. The molly is sitting inside an orniment even.

Let me know if you can think of something else to add that will help


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Kara1979 said:


> Ok yes my tank I bought off someone who had it set of for a long time. It had several BIG fish in it that I rehomed because I dont want big fish I want the pretty guppies and mollies. lol So I added the fish after I reset up the tank. However a LOT of the water was removed so it could be moved easier. So I assumed it should have been cycle. The one small alge eater eats more flakes than alge lol I do feed them alge disc because I knew I didnt have much alge. However sense I treated for parisite and have had the carbon filter out it seems to be growing some because both mollies and guppies are going through and picking at all the plants and stuff like that. I have large gravel bits instead of small so the do a lot of cleaning lol
> 
> I totaly agree it seems like something is missing. I have had a tank before a few yrs back for several yrs but it had Oscars in it and they are impossible to kill LOL So never had any issues at all! I will treat for the ammonia and nitrate and see if that perks them up. At this point as I sit here and watch my tank...Most of my guppies except 2 males act really good. Swimming all over the tank and cleaning plants. My Mollies all except one of my males are acting really good as well now too. They are going through and cleaning swimming breading all that. My Tetras and bottom feeders have been fine the whole time. The male guppies and moly they just act slugish staying on the bottom of the tank. The molly is sitting inside an orniment even.
> 
> Let me know if you can think of something else to add that will help


How many fish do you have in total in the tank, and what size? (for example, i have 3 mollies, 1 is full size, around 2 inches, the other 2 are about in inch an a half long) lets start by weeding out the possibiility of overstocking, as that can cause an ammonia build up. You can be general, as i know the guppies dont exceed an inch in length, as well as the tetras.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok I have 3 male and 3 femal guppies all full grown. I have 4 tetras full grown, 4 mollies all right at about an inch n a half, then my 2 alge eaters both about 2 inches long.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Others have given good advice, so i needn't repeat. To the present, realize that the odd behaviours of the molly and guppy might well be due to problems from before with ammonia or nitrite. Fish sometimes live through cycling but have internal issues and die later. You don't want to be putting medications/treatments in a fish tank without good reason, as many of these are stressful in themselves and can make matters worse.

I would re-home the algae eaters, if these are the "common" ones like Chinese Algae Eater. Click on the shaded name to read about this fish, there is a photo too.

As someone wisely suggested, don't use pH adjusting preparations; and stop the salt. Some of your fish can tolerate salt, some cannot.

Byron.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I have a question did the tank sit empty with out fish in it for a while before you added the new fish? If so it could be that the good bacteria died for lack of food (fish waste) and now your tank will need to recycle. Also welcome to the forum there are lots of great knowledgable people here.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I do believe the medications were needed for sure they are acting much better! I have read up on my mollies and guppies which are the ones I care about the most and they both require salt to be happy plus they like the hard water and higher ph from what the informartion says about them on this site.

It is a chinese algae eatter!! does that matter?? he doesnt bother anyone and hides most of the time. I have always had Pleco's in my fish tanks before and they have been great! 

But I am going to just leave the PH alone and keep an eye on my Ammonia and Nitrites and Nitrates and see how they do. I put back in my carbon filter after having the parisite meds in there for 48 hrs. I also did a 30% water change and treated for the high ammonia. They are FOR SURE acting way better now!! The ones that were laying at the bottom are now back up and swimming around!!! I think I might need to rehome my tetras as i think they are the reason of the jagged fins! 

I want to thank EVERYONE for all the wonderfull info you have given me!! It has been a huge help!! I am now going to leave everything alone and just continue with my 1 or 2 a wk water changes and see how everyone does


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Thank you for the welcoming!! Everyone has been great!

No we went and picked up the tank and it was still fully together with fish. We had to empty it at that time. Then I went straight home and started setting it up again so it was only with out fish a max of 2 hrs.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

The chinese algae eater will get aggressive as he gets older and start chaseing the other fish and will suck the mucas off of the other fish as well also they do not really eat algae i would get rid of him asap.
Did you keep the filter in a little bit of tank water while you were moveing it and setting it up?


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Chinese algae eaters become very aggressive when they mature, i made the mistake of buying one thinking it was an Otocinclus, and now he's in his own tank because I already have a semi-aggressive rainbow shark in my community. Be careful if you're going to house a pleco with mollies and guppies in a "brackish" environment. If I'm not mistaken, plecos are very sensitive to salt.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Really? I did not know that. He seem good right now but maybe wont stay that way. 

Now I have a new issue this morning as I woke up and feed them. They for sure have Ick now!!! So the treatment I put in there solved them shaking and darting but they are still rubbing on things and now Ick is very visible on them!! Should I get a medication just for Ick will that work better than an over all parisite treatment??

I cant win for loosing on this freaking tank!! Its starting to get frustrating!!! On a good note we now have new baby guppy fry (our first batch in the community tank)!!!


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Kara1979 said:


> Really? I did not know that. He seem good right now but maybe wont stay that way.
> 
> Now I have a new issue this morning as I woke up and feed them. They for sure have Ick now!!! So the treatment I put in there solved them shaking and darting but they are still rubbing on things and now Ick is very visible on them!! Should I get a medication just for Ick will that work better than an over all parisite treatment??
> 
> I cant win for loosing on this freaking tank!! Its starting to get frustrating!!! On a good note we now have new baby guppy fry (our first batch in the community tank)!!!


I suggest Rid-Ich Plus. It worked wonders for me over every other ich medicine. And with that chinese algae eater, or any other fish for that matter, they will eat the fry if they can get to em. So, congrats! But make sure you have plenty of hiding spaces for everyone, or get a breeder net for the babies if you really want to keep them!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Ich is common when fish are stressed, as they will be in new tanks. Salt is one treatment for ich, but not one I recommend as many fish (the tetra) cannot tolerate it well.

I have successfully eliminated very bad bouts of ich by raising the temperature to 85F (if fish can tolerate this, and yours can) for one week. I perform a 50% water change first, and raise the temp a couple degrees with the replacement water and then adjust the heater up for the rest. If the spots are bad, I dose the tank with Coppersafe right after the water change. I leave it alone for 7 days at which pint I lower the heater back to the normal setting, allowing the tank to naturally cool back to the normal temp. After another 3 days I do a 50% water change. That's it.

Byron.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I have a 10 gal baby tank that is housing about 40 fry right now so I just went ahead and let this mommy have in the community tank to see how well they do in there. My current fry are about 2wks, and wk n a half old as of now and are doing wonderfull so wasnt hugely worried about it if the others didnt live but I have set up my 2 front covers of my tank with heavy thick, tall plants that reach the top of the water and have plants floating on the top above those. Plus have many ornements they can get in if they want to go to the bottom. plus big gravel. Im pretty sure while she was birthing over nite there were a lot eaten lol But I think I count 7 that are doing very well, hiding in the plants at the top and are eating so so far so good lol.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I will for sure try out the raise in temp!! Anything to help keep from putting in more meds!! I did a 50% water change or close yesterday and I put in Ick treatment a few hrs ago because yesterday I couldnt see any Ick and today they have a lot so it was spreading fast! But should I leave my carbon filter out the whole 7 days?? I worry my tank will be crazy nasty!! I do have salt in there too and the tetras seem to be doing great hopfully it wont get to them!


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Also I have another question for all of you. In my 10gal "fry tank" I am having serious issues with babies getting caught up in the filter. I know I have read on here that many people have said they have never had it happen to them but either their tanks are way bigger or they just dont notice or pay attention!! Because I have any where from 5 to 10 babies a day from the filter that i save! I have just gotten to where I check on it several times a day and if you catch it soon enough they live just fine lol I keep thinking maybe its because they have no adults around or any other fish to worry about eating them so they swim all over the tank instead of hidding in the plants and stuff thats all I can think of why it keeps happening. I have heard to put a net or something around the part in the filter but I want my tank to stay nice and clean and suggetions???


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Kara1979 said:


> Also I have another question for all of you. In my 10gal "fry tank" I am having serious issues with babies getting caught up in the filter. I know I have read on here that many people have said they have never had it happen to them but either their tanks are way bigger or they just dont notice or pay attention!! Because I have any where from 5 to 10 babies a day from the filter that i save! I have just gotten to where I check on it several times a day and if you catch it soon enough they live just fine lol I keep thinking maybe its because they have no adults around or any other fish to worry about eating them so they swim all over the tank instead of hidding in the plants and stuff thats all I can think of why it keeps happening. I have heard to put a net or something around the part in the filter but I want my tank to stay nice and clean and suggetions???


You should probably use some mesh or use a clean piece of nylon stocking and tie it around the filter intake tube. I went through the same with my fry. Leave the bottom of the tank bare so you can easily remove the uneaten food that won't get filtered out.

Good luck with your fry and getting rid of the ICH in your community tank. Keep us posted.


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Romad took the words out of my mouth, lol. Pantyhose! You don't want anything too thick, like leggings or something thats gonna completely slow down the current flow. If you have a petsmart near you, I suggest looking for the white filter media bags (thats what theyll say on the package), they're only around 80-something cents! And putting that over the thingy in the tank ( i dont know the name of the thing on the bottom of the intake tube..the intake??) and tying it off with a rubberband or something.

I tried to look for them on their website but they're not listed..anyway, i use those in my tank in my filter by filling them with crushed coral to raise my water hardness, so i definitely reccommend them


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok thanks I will look for those the next time I go to petsmart. Its about an hour from me so I try not to go to much lol. For now I cut up my fish net and put around the intake tip because I have already had to save 6 just sense I got up this morning!!! So I will see how that works. out should keep me from losing any. Luckly I have only had 1 die from being sucked in because I check it enough lol This will give me one less thing to worry about though!! 
Thanks for you help!!


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Well not having very good luck with the tank!!! Maybe Im just not ment to own a fish tank. I treated for Ich and turned up the heat to 82 and the Ich is a little better but for sure still there!! Plus once the temp raised it seemed like all the fish started acting strange. ALL of them are just laying at the bottom now!! Also lost a guppy last night  Going to test my water today after I get back and see what my readings are maybe they are crazy off!! Plus going to do a 25% water change and treat for ich one more time and see if I can get it to work before it kills them all!! Does anyone recomend the stuff called STRESS COAT to help calm them down and get over the ich?? I know our pet stores around here ALWAYS put it in their water for travel they say it works great to calm them down.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I have used the stress coat before and it did not hurt the fish but I could not really tell if it helped them either. Don't give up it will all get better and it will be so worth all the work and worry to have a beautiful tank of lovely fish to look at.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Im pretty sure you need to treat ICH for 7-10 days and then even when you don't see the spots anymore, treat for 2 or 3 days after that.

What does the manufacturer suggest for dosage?


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Do you have a big airstone in your tank? (Its a blue strip that causes bubbles in your tank when plugged into an air pump.) I only ask because anytime heat is turned up in a tank, the fish require proper aeration, because heat takes more oxygen, so your fish may become lethargic if they are having trouble breathing properly :/

And yeah, the tricky thing about Ich is that once you notice the spots are gone, and you think it's over, that's actually the PRIME time to treat because that is the parasite jumping off the host and falling to the gravel, where it triples in reproduction, and can affect and fatally kill your whole tank! Don't give up hope! I once had to treat Ich for an entire month! Lost one of my favorite Mollies, but it was worth having a working, peaceful tank afterward.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

It sugests if not gone in 24 hrs to do a 25% change n treat again


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Kara1979 said:


> It sugests if not gone in 24 hrs to do a 25% change n treat again


Lol, what kind of Ich treatment did you get? I'm not sure ich can be treated in as little as 24 hours, so that souncs strange to me. It's always recommended to treat ich for 5-7 _days in a row_.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok so my next quetions should i treat with a fiz tab or a liquid???


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok makes sense to treat for that long. I just got the treatment walmart has cause no pet stores close. Im assuming i add the meds every day... Do i do any water changes??? Im determinded to get this down cause i LOVE fish tanks n my favs r guppies n mollies!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Using more than one product is not safe. Sometimes they can react and cause even worse problems. When treating for anything, use one product and do a major water change before using another.

To the ich, I already suggested Coppersafe. I have battled ich for over 20 years from time to time, and tried various methods. I have some extremely sensitive wild-caught fish species. Coppersafe has worked for me, it is easy, only one dose which lasts a month.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Oh yes I do have an air bubbler. I did a huge water change today and used the Coppersafe as you suggested. I found a really small pet store close by and they carried it so that is what I am going to use from now on plus I dont have to take out my carbon filter or treat more than once!! So much easier on the money. I think I have done everything for the most part everyone has suggested so hofully it will work!! I tested my water before the change and it really really good except for Ammonia!!! So im pretty please for that! I treated for the Ammonia as well and they all see to be preking up. I think maybe I might be feeding to much which is cause the Ammonia to go up is that possible?? I dont think I have to many fish in there...I have 4 Mollies full grown, 5 guppies full grown, 4 tetra full grown, plus my 2 alge eaters I have yet to rehome all in a 30 gal tank. Is that to many??


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## Groovysunflowers (Sep 29, 2011)

Kara1979 said:


> Oh yes I do have an air bubbler. I did a huge water change today and used the Coppersafe as you suggested. I found a really small pet store close by and they carried it so that is what I am going to use from now on plus I dont have to take out my carbon filter or treat more than once!! So much easier on the money. I think I have done everything for the most part everyone has suggested so hofully it will work!! I tested my water before the change and it really really good except for Ammonia!!! So im pretty please for that! I treated for the Ammonia as well and they all see to be preking up. I think maybe I might be feeding to much which is cause the Ammonia to go up is that possible?? I dont think I have to many fish in there...I have 4 Mollies full grown, 5 guppies full grown, 4 tetra full grown, plus my 2 alge eaters I have yet to rehome all in a 30 gal tank. Is that to many??


You're at the limit for your tank, for now. Like I said, the pleco will easily outgrow a 30 gallon, and the rule of thumb is usually 1 inch per gallon. (If I'm wrong, byron will correct me, haha) As far as feeding, that amount of fish only need 1 pinch full of flakes, enough to slightly sprinkle across the tank. i say that because that's how I feed mine, once in the morning, once at night (i also have fry in my tank too, and to grow they need extra food. When you feed, watch to see how much your fish eat. If they hurriedly eat everything within 1-2 minutes, and you think for some reason some fish missed out, it's ok to go with another small-SMALL pinch. Overfeeding is one of the most common causes of ammonia spikes.

If for any reason that store stops carrying Coppersafe, always go with a liquid. I don't trust the fizz tabs at all.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Another questions. I noticed the first time this morning that my fry are now rubbing against stuff. I am assuming that the moms had ick before I knew about it and they gave birth in there. Is CopperSafe ok to use with the babies?? I REALLY dont want to loose them!! They are doing sooo great!!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I can't say how the fry might handle any medications, but Coppersafe seems to be relatively "easy" in my experience. With livebearers even if the fry don't survive this, there will always be more--hundreds more.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Well so far the fish in the community tank have handled it well!! There are a few fry in there as well. So Im going to try it. But the CopperSafe was a great recomendation all the Ick is off of the fish!! So thank you so much!!! All the fish seem to be acting pretty well!! The fry in the community tank are getting gutsy and are now getting out of the plants and swimming and running from the adults very well!!


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Thats great news!


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

Your tank seems to be carry a lot of fish in it i would suggest getting rid of the plecos because they poop a lot witch can cause a spike in ammonia, I had the same problem but with goldfish with two mollies that i still have and they are super hardy. You should buy some ammonia remover like this Fluval Ammonia Remover Replacement Packs at PETCO . It is for another filter but i just put it in the filter i had.

I thought that I was not meant to have fish either but things end up working out once you have the info you need. I have over stocked my self, I have treated for ich also and not all the fish make it, i treated two swordtails and the male died but the female made it and she is realy healthy. It WILL take about a week before you can "cure" ich, usualy the fish get it from stress and if you are adding chemicals in the tank like crazy of course they will stress out if you think it is the ammonia then do a 100 percent water change and scub down the tank with HOT water, that is what I did with my mollies. Look up if your fish are hardy and if some are not then keep them in a diff tank and put the hardy ones in the 30 and let it sit for a day then add the other fish but don't be discuraged if they just sit in the bottom of the tank for a while they will do that from the diff of the water put the Ich treatment in the tank as directed and wait a week, do not expect to have all the fish make it just hope they do. If the tank gets foggy then just let it sit there for a week do a cuple of water changes of 10 percent a day or two and let the tank alone and before you know it the tank is clean again. BEFORE you add the ich treatment remove the carbon form the tank so that the treatment wont just be removed.

AND SOME GRATE ADVICE I GOT FROM THIS SITE WAS NOT TO FEED THE FISH TOO MUCH, IT IS HARD TO STARVE A FISH JUST PUT WHAT THEY EAT IN THE FIRST 3 MINUTES. I had over feeded my fish before and that is a big factor when it comes to ammonia. 

As for the ph problem, if you do a 100 percent water change and let it sit for a day or more then the ph levels of with the "cycle fish" and the other fish will be good. I have never had problems with the ph level because it is hard to change the level of ph, for me.


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## TwilightGuy (Oct 22, 2011)

How long do the Fluval ammonia remover packs last?


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

Honestly I don't know, I replace my filter every month and a half and I buy a new cartridge when I buy the filter cartridge. As far as I have been doing it there has been no difference in behavior with the fish acting up because of ammonia.


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## TwilightGuy (Oct 22, 2011)

Out of curiosity I went looking for a Fluval filter manual and found one. It says to replace at least once a month; of course they want you to buy tons of them but it does lose effectiveness over time. You probably don't need to use them once your tank is cycled unless you add fish or overfeed. It's good stuff to use though.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

You should not change your filter media every month it can cause your tank to go threw a minicycle. I only change my media when it is comeing a part.


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

My mollies are use to the rutine they have adapted to random water changes from when i first started keeping fish. They where some of the fist I have kept but not all made it just the mollies and the sword and so far the betta in there looks healthy and makes his bubble nest. So I guess it does have to do with your fishes and how use to the stuff you do to keep them.


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## TwilightGuy (Oct 22, 2011)

Referring to the ammonia remover he uses, not the filter media.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

TwilightGuy said:


> Referring to the ammonia remover he uses, not the filter media.


Opps sorry I misread it. Its the pain pills for my back and lack of sleep doing it to me. LOL


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I am having much better luck now!! I have done 2 50% or a lil more water changes in 1 wk and used coppersafe which does not require the filter to be removed plus it treats for a month and it has done wonderfull!! I got rid of my tetra cause they were picking on the guppies and mollies tails!! Still have the pleco for now but only 1. I did loose a guppy today but she had been acting sick for a while and just never came out of it. she looked like she had been picked on! But now everyone is getting along including babies!! I have 2 mommies ready to pop any day now! They look like they are going to explode!! LOL I tried to feed 3 times a day but much smaller amounts sense I have babies in there that need to eat more often! I try to never change my filter but every other month I just rense off the yuck and thats it! Everyone is acting normal now so hopfully I have it all worked out! I am NOT putting any other products in there now except normal water conditioner/salt and ammonia decreaser ONLY IF NEEDED my PH is holding prefectly now after that 1 time of putting in the ph decreaser meds so not using any other meds so that should help the fish calm down! Plus I do a 25% changer 2 times a week which seems to help a LOT! Thanks for all you help!!!


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Yes I agree!! I am training my babies in the fry tank to adapt to their tank being distrubed on a regular basis!! I change them all the time, I move thier stuff around, while Im cleaning I even stick my hand in the tank with them and let them swim through my hands n stuff!! I think that has to be key to keeping them happy if they are use to being bothered and messed with then they should adapted easier when they are adults!! I even have troubles almost sucking them in the vacuum hose cause they are not affraid enough to run lol My adult mollies that have survived me as a new tank owner are pretty taim!! I come up to the tank they will come up to me, follow my finger across the glass, and if i stick my finger in the tank they will nip at me lol


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

Glad to hear everything is starting to work out for you!


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Glad it getting better for you.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I have new babies this morning!!! Had a Molly batch of fry in the community tank! Cant really tell how many cause they are all hiding! Had a bit of a prob at first cause it looked like they were stuck in the gravel but I dont see any more in there now. I hope any ways!!


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## MinaMinaMina (Aug 28, 2011)

Wait... You have Common Molly, Guppy, and Common Pleco? And you add salt?


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

You should post some pictures to show us the new babys...


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

LOL yes I have Mollies, Guppies, and 1 pelco. Mollies and Guppies require salt but I know the Pelco's dont do well in salt but bought him before I knew that and have no one who wants him lol He seems to be doing great so far.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Posting pics would be a great idea just cant figure out how LOL


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Oh i have figured it out. Working on pics now. Hope you can see them ok.


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

you should just make a new thread and post the pics there and give us a link to the new thread. its easier that way haha, i have tried to post pics with a reaply and cant figure it out.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

You can't post pics with the post quick reply option. 

You want to use the *Add New Post* button right under the latest post to the left or at the top of the thread page.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I posted pics to my profile. plus cant find how to make a new thread LOL I stumbled on it the first time lol


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

If you want to make a new thread just go to the section you want like Freshwater Aquarium or Aquarium Plants then where it says New Thread at the top of the page (right above the others threads) click on that and there you go.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok how do I get to that section? This site is kind of confusing I must say and I am pretty good on a computer lol


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

Ok lets start from the beginning which way are you going to view this thread?
How are you accessing it?


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I log into my account to view them. I started a new thread I figured it out. I even got a pic on there. Just dont know how to tell you all how to get there LOL


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

um ok i thought I made another one but I cant find it now LOL I suck at this


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

LoL I saw that new post. You can copy and paste the address and post it here on this thread.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Well as long as it can be found. lol


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

Yes it can be found here it is http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/fry-86462/


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

I saw the pictures, there a bit blurry. Nice tank but there is alot of fake plants there lol, I have never used a fake plant, i always try to go natural. haha


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Yea I know but I dont want to mess with making sure I dont kill them lol the fish are worry enough and I know a lot of plants you put in there cant take any kind of meds if you have to use them


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok have another question. My levels in my tank have been doing very well!! I have cut back enough on feeding that my Ammonia is staying at 0 now thank god! However I tested today and my Nitrate is just a little up do I fix that just by a water change?? All the fish are acting fine including all of the fry but I have one female Guppy who is NOT acting good!! She is hiding in a decoration on the bottom and wont eat!! She started acting funny yesterday evening! She is VERY pregnant could that be it or am I going to loose her??


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Kara1979 said:


> Ok have another question. My levels in my tank have been doing very well!! I have cut back enough on feeding that my Ammonia is staying at 0 now thank god! However I tested today and my Nitrate is just a little up do I fix that just by a water change?? All the fish are acting fine including all of the fry but I have one female Guppy who is NOT acting good!! She is hiding in a decoration on the bottom and wont eat!! She started acting funny yesterday evening! She is VERY pregnant could that be it or am I going to loose her??


Do you mean nitr*a*te as written, or nitr*i*te? If nitrite, it must be kept near-zero with partial water changes. If nitrate, that is less of an issue but it should be kept under 20ppm.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

She maybe getting close to haveing the fry and yes a water change should fix your nitrates.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Yes it Nitrates. Its time to do a water change I am going to do that tonight once my kids are home cause they help me keep from sucking up fry LOL Do you think I will have many issues with fry dieing being stuck in the gravel or should I not worry about it and just think its natural selection?


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Its been my experiance that the fry hide in the gravel but are not actually stuck so I think you should be fine. While the fry are in the tank I would not vaccum the gravel just remove water from the tank and put clean water in while keeping the gravel vaccum well above the gravel.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok will that raise my Ammonia level?? It might be a while sense they are pretty small. I have age any wheres from 1 day old to 3 wks old lol


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

It should not because you are takeing out dirty water and replaceing it with clean.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

We have another new addition!!! Due to all the wonderful help I have recieved from this site we decided we really wanted a tank to have Oscars again!!! We now have a 42gal fish tank that came with 4 Chiclids, and another chinese allgy eater. Then we purchased 2 Oscars one albino and the other black!!! This tank will have those fish in it and sense the chinese allgy eater that we already had can be agressive we moved him to the new tank plus the Pelco which I guess do not handle salt very well I moved him to the new tank as well!! The Pelco already seems WAY happier!!! His color is normal now!!! We are sooo excited to have this new addition and I am sure I will need some more advice along the way LOL Thank you everyone who have helped out soo wonderfuly!!


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## kangy (Nov 4, 2011)

Those Oscars will get pretty big, personally I think that stocking level is a little much for that tank/fish.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I have to agree with Kangy, just for one Oscar you need at least 75 gallons, if I were you I would return the Oscars to the store.


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## MinaMinaMina (Aug 28, 2011)

The minimum tank size recommended for just ONE Oscar is 75 gallons. They grow quickly, maybe an inch a month. I would think you'd need to buy a 75+ gallon tank with very strong filtration within a month or rehome them. They also cannot be housed with smaller fish.

I don't know what kind of cichlids the other four are, so I cannot comment there on the suitability of the new tank, tankmates, water parameters, etc. If you'd like to post more info, we could try to help you.

In the future, I'd strongly suggest you research the fish before you buy them. This site is a great source for that, whether clicking the shaded species names or using the second tab from the left on the dark blue navigation bar at the top of each page.

Edit- Oops, sorry! Didn't see the previous posts!


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I have owned Oscars a lot in my life...my dad had one when I was a kid in a 30 gal tank and he lived a very long time. I had 2 Oscars in a 37 gal tank for yrs. I ended up just selling them. In both cases they ONLY grew to their environment!! They stop growing based on their tank size. I am VERY aware of not being able to have little fish in the tank however if they grow up with them they do leave them alone! Plus we will feed them feeder fish as well. I know a lot about the fish that are very hardy like the Oscar and the chiclids. I just dont know much about the Mollies and Guppies which are proving to be IMPOSSIBLE to keep alive! 

Oh and I have researched the 2 types of fish I have in that tank on this site before I bought the Oscars...They both require the same type of water conditions. Dont know if you know this but Oscars are a type of Chiclid!! So they are prefect tankmates! I had one with my last 2 Oscars as well. You just have to give the Chiclids a place to hide because they do LOVE decorations that they can get into and sit and peak their heads out. They have plenty of that was well! 

Thanks for all your tips however I am going to go with my own experiance and opinion on this and not return/rehome my Oscars.  Oscars have wonderfull funny personalities, they will jump out of the water and take food from your hand, they will nibble your finger if given a chance and I love the personalities they develop!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

It is a scientific fact that fish do not "grow to the size of tank" they are in and then just stop and stay healthy. If the fish stops growing, less than it's normal size which for an oscar is 12+ inches, it does so because it is stunted and deformed. And as a fish grows, it requires adequate space in terms of physical space and water quality. The small space is physically restricting, but the detrimental water conditions which always occur in such environments is even more of a problem for the health of the fish. With respect to tank size, any reputable site will tell you than 2 oscars need at minimum a 100g tank.

You can keep a pony in your bedroom if it suits you; the animal will probably remain alive, eat, interact with you, etc. But is it really healthy? No. neither is a potentially large fish in too small of an aquarium.

Byron.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Very well said Byron. You asked for help and we have been trying to help you if you chose not to listen then I feel bad for your fish. When you keep a fish in a tank to small for it thier organs continue to grow while the body does not which I would imagine would be quite painful just think about it how would you feel if your body stopped growing at age 2 but your heart, lungs, ect kept growing. The exclimation points in your post are rude in my opinion when all we have done is try to help you and your fish.


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## magpie (Nov 7, 2011)

I know people who have kept dogs chained in the backyard, never or rarely coming inside - some of those dogs have lived long lives. Doesn't mean they're happy, that it's responsible stewardship, or it's the right thing to do, though.


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## kangy (Nov 4, 2011)

My first post was "soft" but Byron, Calm, and Magpie hit the nail on the head. Do what you want to do, I hope you sleep at night, I know I couldn't. I guess ignorance is bliss. I feel bad enough temporarily housing a couple clown loaches trying to find them a good home. Every day I look at them in my 30 gallon tank I literally tell them "I'll find you a nice home". But your situation is completely different, you are honestly thinking this is a good idea. My current dog is a female red nose pitbull that I rescued from a neighbor that was getting his house forclosed (similar to magpie's post, they had her chained up in the back yard). But I guess despite what the rest of us say if your "experience" says housing two Oscars with additional cichlids's in a 30g is humane than go right ahead. 

I personally LOVE oscars. They are amazing fish, would I love to have a pair of them, you bet your sweet *ss I would, but would I put them in a 30 gallon tank just because they jump out of the water and nibble on my hand... hell no! that's just cruel. You are selfish!... Come one, take an honest step back and think about this for a minute, do the right thing, rehome them or take them back before you ruin the lives of two amazing fish!


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I wasnt being rude! They have been returned!


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## magpie (Nov 7, 2011)

Really happy to hear that - that was a quick turnaround. 
Sometimes lots of exclamation marks can make it seem like you're "yelling" online, which I think is what the person meant about being rude.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

magpie said:


> Really happy to hear that - that was a quick turnaround.
> Sometimes lots of exclamation marks can make it seem like you're "yelling" online, which I think is what the person meant about being rude.


Yes that is exactly what I thought. I am glad you did the right thing and took the back.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Who ever said Mollies and guppies are easy to keep are crazy!! My water readings have been prefect and I have lost a female guppy(might have died durning labor) I have 2 Mollies that are swimming funny!! One swims with his nose up and the female swims with her nose down!! 3 of them havnt eatin in 2 days so I know its only a mater of time before they are dead!! No good reason why!! Water readings are good, temps is still the same it has been, and still doing my normal water changes! I have also noticed that I have lost move of my Molly babies as well and I use to have a LOT  Think I am going to just try and find a different fish to keep!


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

Kara1979 said:


> Who ever said Mollies and guppies are easy to keep are crazy!! My water readings have been prefect and I have lost a female guppy(might have died durning labor) I have 2 Mollies that are swimming funny!! One swims with his nose up and the female swims with her nose down!! 3 of them havnt eatin in 2 days so I know its only a mater of time before they are dead!! No good reason why!! Water readings are good, temps is still the same it has been, and still doing my normal water changes! I have also noticed that I have lost move of my Molly babies as well and I use to have a LOT  Think I am going to just try and find a different fish to keep!


I said that they are hardy fish and I dont know if you are calling me out or anything, lets just asume that you are not. The thing is that mollies from my experiences is that if you give them food and they get full and you try to give them more they will keep on eating that is why it is a good idea to feed them only once a day. If I accidently over feed them I will not feed them untill the next day late at night just a little or until the next day.
If the fish are swimming strange that thet probably have Swim Bladder Disease from overeating. The water can be in perfect condition and have one molly in a 100 gallon and if you over feed them they will get it.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Kara1979 said:


> Who ever said Mollies and guppies are easy to keep are crazy!! My water readings have been prefect and I have lost a female guppy(might have died durning labor) I have 2 Mollies that are swimming funny!! One swims with his nose up and the female swims with her nose down!! 3 of them havnt eatin in 2 days so I know its only a mater of time before they are dead!! No good reason why!! Water readings are good, temps is still the same it has been, and still doing my normal water changes! I have also noticed that I have lost move of my Molly babies as well and I use to have a LOT  Think I am going to just try and find a different fish to keep!


I went back through this thread and from that I would suggest that the fish are now showing the effects of the initial ammonia/nitrite during cycling. Fish sometimes live through a cycle, but the damage that ammonia and/or nitrite toxicity do internally is done and down the road the fish show it.

Molly are especially sensitive to ammonia, and they should never be added to a tank that is not both cycled and established. Their swimming is indicative of probable toxicity.

There is also the pH adjusting chemicals that were being used intially. These also affect fish to some degree.

Your water is basic and hard, which is ideal for livebearers. Once the tank is biologically settled, the problems should be gone.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok both of you gave me great advice  No I wasnt calling you all out cause I have heard it from many many people. Over feeding might be possible, I try to feed twice a day because I have babies. I will scale it back to just a tiny bit 2 times a day and cut it back even more than I did the last time and see if that works  Your probably right about the tank not being cycled and they are just now showing the damage. I think I have it all down now so havnt had to add anything like ph or ammonia decreaser for a while now. Im also wondering if the toxcity you are talking about could have been caused from dead fry? I havnt been vaccuming the gravel because I have so many fry, however, today I decided that was a possibility so I just got done with a water change because today my Nitrite was slightly up from 0. So this time I removed some gravel cause I think I had to much in there and that was causing the fry to get stuck. then I just slowly vacuumed all the gavel to make sure I had all the dead. It was NASTY!! So that could be a lot of the problem. The damage might be done and I may not be able to reverse it but I know now what to do I hope LOL Should I test my water every day sense I am having so many problems? My ammonia has been level for a could wks now so I think I have that under control. Any other tips?


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

I use ammonia remover thing. You can buy cartriges or the one that comes in a bottle cup like thing and you can add it to the filter cartridge. I hear from lots of people that these things dont work and are a waste of money but they are not and if you believe different than its up to you. 
For me it has been a miracle because I remember the days when my ammonia was bad to where I could smell it of the tank and now I cant anymore only when I remove the cartridge I can smell the ammonia on it.
Lots of times I hear it just masks the ammonia and turns it into other harmful things but since I have used them none of my fish have died or showed signs of stress. they do better with it. 

You should try it for a week and if you dont like it then I will never metion this thing in any other post that people are asking to remove there ammonia.

Even better than the way I do it is adding new water but it causes problems to some people and me too so I do water changes with this in the filter.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok I have another question. My 2 mollies with the swimming problem...one swims head up the other swimings head down. They havent eaten in 4 days!! Are they going to be able to recover or are they just suffering?? If they are suffering what should I do???


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Could be a swim bladder problem try to feed them some peas peel the shell off and feed them the inside.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Serisouly?? That will fix their swim bladder?? I put a cucumber in there like everyone has told me to do. The babies are eating it but no one else seems interested. Do I just put it in the water?? I dont think they will go after it. How do I force feed it?? lol


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## kangy (Nov 4, 2011)

Kara1979 said:


> How do I force feed it?? lol


Just picturing that made me spill my coke. :lol:


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I know it helps bettas but I have never had to do it to a mollie you could try catching them and putting them in a cup and putting it right in front of them and they may go for it at least thats what my betta did. ; ) Good luck with them.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

kangy said:


> Just picturing that made me spill my coke. :lol:


Could you just see the OP with a pair of tweezers trying to force the fish mouth open. :shock::lol:


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## kangy (Nov 4, 2011)

Calmwaters said:


> Could you just see the OP with a pair of tweezers trying to force the fish mouth open. :shock::lol:


Come here you slippery nipple, I said eat the pea!! *fish thinking, WTF I'm not eating that, where's my steak*


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

You two are hilarious! LoL


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

LMAO You guys are cracking me up!!! I dont think that would be much success lol


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I live to laugh and help others laugh! Live is way to short to be serious. ; )


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Well put some peas in the tank LOL One of them took a bite but that was it! All the other fish are eating it like crazy LOL


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Keep trying with the sick ones it maybe that they are haveing a hard time competing with the others for the food.


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## jdiaz (Nov 6, 2011)

I have tried before when one of my fish way back then had it and It did not work for my. I did not try to force feed because I did not know you could do that. When I added the peas it was to late for him because he already had more than two days without eating and he would not even pay attention to it sucks.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I put plenty in there for everyone they just werent interested


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## kangy (Nov 4, 2011)

You could always try the cup option to isolate them.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I just fear I will stress them out even more. You think it will?


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## kangy (Nov 4, 2011)

No idea, I've never tried it before. I would assume it probably would stress them a bit, I wouldn't want to get pulled from my home and shoved into the trunk of a car and have pie shoved in my face. Well the pie thing wouldn't be too bad. Seriously though, at this point you have to look at it as they are suffering slowly, obviously they can't compete with the other fish in the tank so your best chance is to separate them. Either pull all the other fish out into a QT tank to not stress the sick ones or pull them out and give it a shot. If it were me I'd want to take the chance and give it one last fight, but then again I'm not a fish. So to directly answer your question I'm pretty sure it will add some stress and they aren't going to like being pulled out and put in a cup but it beats the heck out of them floating around slowly suffering. You can always try a large bowl or tupperware so it's not such a tight space, that way they would have some more room to swim around and go at the pea if they feel up to it.

... Or just ride it out and see if they improve but if they are not eating their chances of getting better without some assistance are very slim


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I agree with Kangy on both the pie stuffed in my face not being bad ; ) and that while it may stress the fish out it will give them more of a chance to get better if they were by themselves.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok agreed cant argue there they are suffering, they have to be...I did catch the one floating head down eating a bit of flakes yesterday! I have a 10 gal "sick" tank I can put them in and try to see if they improve. I will make that my goal tomorrow. Is there any thing else I can do besides seperation from the other and peas to help them?? They sure are fighting for there lives poor things!! I feel sooo bad!!


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Well here is an update on how things are doing...I ended up seperating ALL of my mollies into a small tank because ALL of them are sick. One of the ones that were swiming funny did die  However the female that was swiming nose down seems to be swiming a little more normal now but she is also starting to show she is pregnant again so maybe thats whats helping her because she didnt start swiming funny till after her last litter of fry. However, all the others seem to have some other problem! They almost look like they have a spine problem because their backs are a little arched and tails kind of point down! I have 3 of them like that. What could that be??? 

However ALL of my guppies are doing great!! Now that I have had my water stable for quite a while I went and bought 3 more guppy females. I have 4 females 2 males. Thats the only fish I have in my 30 gal tank now beside the fry of course. My older female had another litter the other day however they were so extra tiny than normal I think most of them got ate because my small tank is full of sick fish so couldnt seperate her. Think I might get a breeder net for now till my 10gal is open again. I watch several of them get at the second they came out of mommy  So I think I have no choice but to use net cause these females seem to really LOVE eatting babies!! They chase my older babies around all the time but luckily they are much bigger and faster and are able to get away! I have a ton of hiding spots on the gravel floor and floating plants but these girls dont care they go inside the stuff looking for the babies! I pretty much lost ALL my mollie babies as well except for 2 or 3.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Is this what they look like:
Aquarium FD - Fish Tuberculosis (Curved Spine) - Disease Identification, Diagnosis & Treatment


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Thats not a real good pic to tell. but they have a few of those symptoms they list. Curved or crooked spine, they eat but very little. They stay at the bottom all the time. No scale problems or anything. 

Also had another question...how old do fry have to be before I can tell their sex??? My oldest ones have to be 5 or 6 wks old now. Still pretty small but I can see their bottom fins real well but all of them look female still at this point.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

I really hopes its NOT Fish TB!!! They really dont have most of them symptoms just crooked spine is all. Other wise from what that article says it will infect my other fish and possiblely me!!! However now that I think about it, it started happening when I brought 2 fish home from walmart!! Thats 2 times now I have gotten all my fish sick from walmart fish so im NEVER buying from them again!! Hopfully I removed them fast enough!! None of my guppies seem to be showing signs and its been over 2 wks so im hoping for the best!!


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Walmart is the worst place to get fish. I made the mistake two times of getting algea eaters and putting them in my tanks with put QT and I lost all of my fish in the tank. I learned a painful exspensive lesson from that now I never get fish at Walmart.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

acutaly i think they have VITAMIN DEFICIENCIES!! Thats what my fish look and acted like!! So I need to research my food for them! Going to the pet store tomorrow. Any suggestions on the best foods for guppies and molies?? Like maybe from frozen food or can a dried shrimp work just as well?? As of right now I feed them a tropical fish flake, they get a slice of cucumber once a wk and then I change it out for a fresh one(which they all have come to LOVE I think) and about once a wk I give them peas cause you all suggested it for swim blader and they all seemed to LOVE that as well so I just kept doing it.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

Yea I will NEVER again!! Im lucky I didnt loose all mine!! It just seemed to effect the mollies and not guppies!! Thank goodness!


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

The Omni Gold is good food, the fresh veggies are great to you can also steam a baby carrot until is soft but not over smushy and they will like it as well.


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## Kara1979 (Nov 11, 2011)

ok I will look for that tomorrow. So its good for them to have the vegi's? Never thought to do carrots too!


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

Yes alot of fish like fresh veggies exspecially the ones that are classified as herbavors.


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