# Normal guppy behavior?



## ruby716

I have 2 male fancy tale guppies, and the smaller one always follows and tries to touch the other one? Do you think hes stressing him? I posted a video


YouTube - SDC12906


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## small fry

They are not getting along in this movie. This is "normal" guppy behavior, but it doesn't apprear to be good guppy behavior. You can tell that there has been alot of tail-nipping on both guppies. There are ways to limit aggression.

What size is your tank? What other fish do you have (if you have other livebearers including guppies, genders of each LB would be helpful if you knew them)? How long have the fish been in the tank together? Do you have a picture of the entire tank?

All these things would be helpful to help us help you.


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## ruby716

small fry said:


> They are not getting along in this movie. This is "normal" guppy behavior, but it doesn't apprear to be good guppy behavior. You can tell that there has been alot of tail-nipping on both guppies. There are ways to limit aggression.
> 
> What size is your tank? What other fish do you have (if you have other livebearers including guppies, genders of each LB would be helpful if you knew them)? How long have the fish been in the tank together? Do you have a picture of the entire tank?
> 
> All these things would be helpful to help us help you.



its A 2.5 gallon with 2 white cloud minnows who get along great.. the yellow ones tail was like that when we got him, idk about the orange one.. but when i first got the tank i had a balloon molly and just the orange tailed guppy in there and he was mean to the guppy so we got rid of him.. but yea they swim around and look very happy but i notice the yellow one does it a lot... should i bring the yellow one back and just keep the orange tailed on and the 2 white cloud minnows? here is some pics.... i have a ghost shrimp also..and there is never any ammonia in the water.. water parameters are always perfect..ive had the orange fish and the ghost shrimp since february 16th, 
... the tank has been set up since then.. the white cloud minnows i got a couple of weeks later..


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## ruby716

ruby716 said:


> its A 2.5 gallon with 2 white cloud minnows who get along great.. the yellow ones tail was like that when we got him, idk about the orange one.. but when i first got the tank i had a balloon molly and just the orange tailed guppy in there and he was mean to the guppy so we got rid of him.. but yea they swim around and look very happy but i notice the yellow one does it a lot... should i bring the yellow one back and just keep the orange tailed on and the 2 white cloud minnows? here is some pics.... i have a ghost shrimp also..and there is never any ammonia in the water.. water parameters are always perfect..ive had the orange fish and the ghost shrimp since february 16th,
> ... the tank has been set up since then.. the white cloud minnows i got a couple of weeks later..


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## ruby716

ruby716 said:


>



the yellow guppy and the orange guppy have been in the tank for about 3 1/2 weeks together


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## LasColinasCichlids

A couple of things...
1- If the tank is not heated, guppies will be aggitated (among other things).
2- The tank is overstocked.
3- Guppies need a few of them to spread out their aggression as they tend to be nippy and pushy with each other. (3-5 guppies are best kept, as they are social, but not a typical schooling fish)
4- For your size tank, a single ghost shrimp and a betta is probably best housed in it (still needs a heater for a betta though)
5- White Clouds are cool water fish, and dont need heaters persay. However, they are active swimmers and benefit from a larger long tank, as well as larger groups of 6.
6- (So *NOT* trying to be mean) Your best option would be to re-home the guppies as well as the minnows, grab a cheap heater, and get a betta if you are intent on keeping this tank size. The current tank size and lack of heater, as well as combination of fish, will not allow your fish to be happy, healthy, or live for very long, regardless of water parameters being safe. 
7- What is your pH and current tank temp? 
8- Your guppies are nice looking fancies (well, the orange one), and are referred to as Cobras due to the specific breeding for that tail pattern.


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## ruby716

LasColinasCichlids said:


> A couple of things...
> 1- If the tank is not heated, guppies will be aggitated (among other things).
> 2- The tank is overstocked.
> 3- Guppies need a few of them to spread out their aggression as they tend to be nippy and pushy with each other. (3-5 guppies are best kept, as they are social, but not a typical schooling fish)
> 4- For your size tank, a single ghost shrimp and a betta is probably best housed in it (still needs a heater for a betta though)
> 5- White Clouds are cool water fish, and dont need heaters persay. However, they are active swimmers and benefit from a larger long tank, as well as larger groups of 6.
> 6- (So *NOT* trying to be mean) Your best option would be to re-home the guppies as well as the minnows, grab a cheap heater, and get a betta if you are intent on keeping this tank size. The current tank size and lack of heater, as well as combination of fish, will not allow your fish to be happy, healthy, or live for very long, regardless of water parameters being safe.
> 7- What is your pH and current tank temp?
> 8- Your guppies are nice looking fancies (well, the orange one), and are referred to as Cobras due to the specific breeding for that tail pattern.



pH is 7.7 and tank temp is 72 degrees


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## small fry

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Your 2.5 gallon tank has the capacity of a betta and Ghost shrimp with good care taken to keep the water quality good, but it _will not_ support your 4 fish. The fish will start producing alot more waste than the biological system can handle, and there will be no way to stop the toxicity.

Overstocking is a huge concern, but it is not the only urgent concern. You also must realize that fish need to oxygen. It your small tank environment, there is probably not enough oxygen to support all those fish, even with the filter.

Even if there is enough oxygen, the fish will have a very hard time getting to it. You see, fish take up oxygen with their gills. Fast fish that dart all over the tank _have_ to dart all over the tank to fource the oxygen into their gills (it doesn't harm the fish, it is just insticts). If one of these quick moving fish (such as Montain Minnow or Zebra Danio) isn't given enough room to dart, it will make it very diffecult to breathe, resulting in a diffecult, shorter life. That is why we are careful to give these fish enough room (please don't go below minimum if you know it) to dart so that they can breathe properly.

Yes, an issue is coldwater/tropical fish in the same tank. There is really no good way to do that. You have the coldwater fish operating on way too high a metabolism (shortens lifespan), or the tropical fish too low to where there are digestive problems. Coldwater and Tropical should not be housed together. You will avoid many problems in the end.

Another issue is of course aggression, which has pretty well already been discussed. 2 males in that small of a tank will not work out, they will fight in almost every circumstance.

I am not trying to scold you, fuss at you, embarass you, or anything of the sort. I am just explaining these diffecult details in hopes that you may decide to either get a bigger tank, or perhaps take the fish you hae back to the pet store. I am trying to get you to see that your setup will not work, though it may be hard to hear, so that you will not have to go through the burden of losing fish.

You are not a cruel fishkeeper, I am sure you didn't know. Maybe fish stores lie to you to make a buck, and you have probably seen many pictures of WAY overstocked fish tanks at your fish store. If you need advice, we are here to help you make your desicion. 

And please, if anything, take my advice because I had to learn this the hard way; Always research the fish thoroughly before getting it. You can save alot of heart-ache not impulse buying fish at the local fish store. They will leave out details you only find out later.:-(

Also, please check out our Tropical Fish Keeping fish profiles. They are at the top left part of the screen on a blue tab under our forum logo. Those profiles can help you tremendously. You can also view the profile of any fish species highlighted in blue. For example, Guppy , you can view Guppy by clicking on it when the blue highlight is over it.

Hope this helps!


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## ruby716

small fry said:


> Unfortunately, I have to agree. Your 2.5 gallon tank has the capacity of a betta and Ghost shrimp with good care taken to keep the water quality good, but it _will not_ support your 4 fish. The fish will start producing alot more waste than the biological system can handle, and there will be no way to stop the toxicity.
> 
> Overstocking is a huge concern, but it is not the only urgent concern. You also must realize that fish need to oxygen. It your small tank environment, there is probably not enough oxygen to support all those fish, even with the filter.
> 
> Even if there is enough oxygen, the fish will have a very hard time getting to it. You see, fish take up oxygen with their gills. Fast fish that dart all over the tank _have_ to dart all over the tank to fource the oxygen into their gills (it doesn't harm the fish, it is just insticts). If one of these quick moving fish (such as Montain Minnow or Zebra Danio) isn't given enough room to dart, it will make it very diffecult to breathe, resulting in a diffecult, shorter life. That is why we are careful to give these fish enough room (please don't go below minimum if you know it) to dart so that they can breathe properly.
> 
> Yes, an issue is coldwater/tropical fish in the same tank. There is really no good way to do that. You have the coldwater fish operating on way too high a metabolism (shortens lifespan), or the tropical fish too low to where there are digestive problems. Coldwater and Tropical should not be housed together. You will avoid many problems in the end.
> 
> Another issue is of course aggression, which has pretty well already been discussed. 2 males in that small of a tank will not work out, they will fight in almost every circumstance.
> 
> I am not trying to scold you, fuss at you, embarass you, or anything of the sort. I am just explaining these diffecult details in hopes that you may decide to either get a bigger tank, or perhaps take the fish you hae back to the pet store. I am trying to get you to see that your setup will not work, though it may be hard to hear, so that you will not have to go through the burden of losing fish.
> 
> You are not a cruel fishkeeper, I am sure you didn't know. Maybe fish stores lie to you to make a buck, and you have probably seen many pictures of WAY overstocked fish tanks at your fish store. If you need advice, we are here to help you make your desicion.
> 
> And please, if anything, take my advice because I had to learn this the hard way; Always research the fish thoroughly before getting it. You can save alot of heart-ache not impulse buying fish at the local fish store. They will leave out details you only find out later.:-(
> 
> Also, please check out our Tropical Fish Keeping fish profiles. They are at the top left part of the screen on a blue tab under our forum logo. Those profiles can help you tremendously. You can also view the profile of any fish species highlighted in blue. For example, Guppy , you can view Guppy by clicking on it when the blue highlight is over it.
> 
> Hope this helps!


Hi, 

Thanks for the response. Well I've had the fish for about 2 months now... I can't afford a bigger tank right now... So do you suggest I just get a betta and take out the 4 fish? Should I get a heater for the betta? You said that the toxicity would be too much for the filter to handle, but my parameters have been perfect tho...I understand what you mean tho.. I think I will get a betta


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## small fry

ruby716 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the response. Well I've had the fish for about 2 months now... I can't afford a bigger tank right now... So do you suggest I just get a betta and take out the 4 fish? Should I get a heater for the betta? You said that the toxicity would be too much for the filter to handle, but my parameters have been perfect tho...I understand what you mean tho.. I think I will get a betta


You have perfect params? With all those fish in that small tank? I can't see how that is possible. I hardly have perfect params in my bigger, way understocked tanks, w/ regular water changes. What kind of test kits are you using?

Bettas are great fish! I have 2 and I highly recomend them to any responsibe fish keeper (that includes you)! I do recomend that you try and take the other fish you have back to the local fish store and get a better instead. That would be the most responsible thing to do.

Yeah, Bettas are great! Just don't forget to stay on top of their water changes, and they will sport some beautiful colors! My betta, Tony always swims up to me as happy as he can be, and swims excitedly around the glass. He watches me play guitar, type on the forums. My most social, happy fish by far. Spike, my other betta, is a good betta too. A little bit mean at first (when we took him out of my sister's sorority because we bought it at a very young age as a femaile), but it got alot happier now.

There are a few invertebrates you can put with it, but ask about it first. I never recomend decorative shrimp with bettas. Some bettas will do fine with shrimp, and other bettas (like Tony) will hunt them down for hours (he hunted a ghost shrimp, that he didn't kill, but he hunted it for a long time). If you want to try shrimp, Ghost Shrimps are good for beginers, and bettas are less likely to notice them.

As far as snails, some snails get abit big. Apples and _maybe_ Mysteries are probably more on the bio-load than you want. But don't ask me about snails, I have about 500 of them, but I am certainly not an expert on them (ramshorns and MTS are easy to breed lol).

Can't wait to see pics if you decide to go the Betta route!

small fry,


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## LasColinasCichlids

I could have sworn I replied to this again already, I guess I forgot to hit post 
A betta is the best option on that tank size. Yes, a heater is needed as Bettas are tropical fish.
I would skip the snail in that tank size. I say this because most snails reproduce like mad. Yet, a solo mystery snail if male doesnt, and if female will lay easy to see pink sacs above water line that you can just scrap away. However, a mystery snail is easily 2+ inches and has a heavier bio load than you would think. 

I get away with a mystery snail, betta, frog, and 2 otos in my 5 gal, but I have a 10 gal filter on it, live plants, and do regular water changes...otherwise, this tank would be full of dead fish. 

So with betta and a ghost shrimp you should be fine (with a heater). (FYI, even cool water fish can have their water up to 75F, and tropical is usually around 78F depending upon the species as some like it warmer in the 80-82F range like Discus and Blue Rams.)

I agree to start with the ghost shrimp housed with the betta, if it gets ate no big deal. You certainly dont want to put a $5 cherry shrimp in there...that could be a very expensive betta snack! lol 

Some bettas can be very nasty with tankmates. I have always been lucky with all mine. I have kept male bettas (veil & crowntails) with african dwarf frogs, neon tetra, mystery snail, oto cat, rasboras, danios, cories...all with no issues. Of course you can usually tell ahead of time if the betta is a nasty one. Most thought my current Betta (no name yet, have had him for a few months just havent named him) would be nasty, as he flares at my husband and friends...flares (no gills though) at the frog and snail once in a while too...but he never flares at me and loves to watch me cook since his tank is in the kitchen (5 gal acrylic). Anyways, my point is, you can sometimes tell how they will be...but this usually isnt a tell for shrimp as they are more prey than frogs, otos, snails, and other small fish. 

Anyways, good luck, and keep us posted. 
Another alternative would be to keep one guppy with the shrimp and a heater in the tank. But guppies seem to do better with the theory of more is merrier (same for space). Just food for thought.


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