# Sick Female Guppy, Please help!



## Nastenka (Dec 6, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I recently posted a thread wondering whether my male guppies had some fin rot (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...elp-diagnose-my-guppies-fin-45226/#post405650).

Once I read the replies I stopped treating my tank with Interpet's Number 8 Anti Fungus and Finrot (active ingredient: phenxyethanol 40,000mg/100mls) by replacing the carbon sponge and doing a water change (6 days after the medication was started). It seemed that the meds affected one of my black neon tetras - he lost almost all of his colour, but seems to be okay other than that. 

I also noticed that my female guppy's (I have 4 males and 1 female, which I know is a terrible ratio) tail started to look as if it had some jagged edges (before the meds it was perfect!) and over the course of a few days it looked as if it was getting clumped together. She can't swim properly now (sort of jerks sideways instead). The tail is now even more clumped (alost like someone's put glue through it) and has red specs on the edges. 

I have remembered that this exact same thing happened after I used the medication last time to treat fin rot (about 3-4 months ago) - my female then actually died. Is this medication off? Or known to be bad? What can I do to help the female? I don't have a hospital tank and won't be able to get one within the next few days









Also, after looking at other picture of fin rot online it seems to me that one of my guppy males definitely does have it. What can I do to help him as well?

Please help. Thank you.


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

I'd suggest daily water changes, raise the heat and just monitor it. I'm tempted to say this sounds more like velvet that fin rot. If you gave your water parameters and a list of what you have stocked, we'd have a better idea of what your situation is.


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## Nastenka (Dec 6, 2009)

Hi 

My water parameters are:


pH: 7.5-8.0 
Ammonia: 0 mg/l 
Nitrite: <0.3 mg/l 
Nitrate: 20 mg/l 
Oxygen level: 5-8mg/l 

And the occupants of my tank:

4 male guppies, 1 female guppy, 3 cory catfish, 2 cherry barbs, 2 harlequin rosboras, 1 glowlight tetra and 2 black neon tetras. I know it's not the best combination now, but unfortunately at the time when I bought them my LFS didn't advise me to that fact.

I haven't heard of an illness called "velvet" before. I'll have a look and see what I can find out about it. At the moment the female looks as though the receding of the fins has stopped (all of them, not just the tail fin, have been affected). The red specs are gone. She's constantly right the top of the tank and doesn't swim around very much.

Thank you for your help.


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## Nastenka (Dec 6, 2009)

Hi everyone, 

I don't know if anyone is reading this but I really need help urgently. The guppy has taken a huge turn for the worse. When I came home tonight I found her lying on her side at the very surface of the tank (at first I thought maybe she was dead but then I noticed her breathing). Her gills have really flared out, but I don't see any ohter "pine coning" on her body. It looks like her tail/spine have bent around (horizontally) towards her head. I think it looks like she won't make it, but I want to try and make her comfortable (I don't have a quarrantine tank, unfortunately) if I can. Would it be a good idea to euthanize her? How do I do this?

I'm also worried about the other fish in the tank, though all of them look fit and healthy at the moment (apart from some rips and tears in the male guppies' tails).

Please please please help.


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

i think you need to do some big water changes until your nitrite is 0. Also, I'm not sure what size tank you have, but the fish combo, as you said, is not great. Stress lends itself to sick fish. They become susceptable to ailments they otherwise would not suffer from. In addition to that The bad combos might also lead to fin nipping. Tetra will do this when they don't have a big enough school. I think I've heard similar about rasboras as well.

That being said. Here is a great website with guppy related ailments and known treatments. Salt is almost always suggested. For you to do that, you either have to remove plants and anything sensitive to salt or set up a hospital tank...

Here's the gist of the salt treatment:

Salt Treatment/Salt Bath

This is a treatment that is as old as the aquarium hobby itself. Treating with salt is undoubtedly the safest way to treat fishes. While chemicals such as Formalin, Malachite Green, and copper are considered by some to be more reliable, these are strong substances to impose on a guppy and must be handled with care since they have the potential to cause cancer in humans. Using salt is especially handy with guppies, since they are built to withstand a lot of salt - they do that quite well. Salt is especially effective against fungal infections and some parasitic problems such as ich. If diagnosis is difficult, try salt. Normally the salt treatment lasts 10 days. Note: This bath is not intended as an additional treatment and should not be combined with other medication.


Days 1 - 3: add I teaspoon of salt per gallon of water, every morning and every night. (2 teaspoons /gallon/day)

Days 4 - 7: Leave water alone.

Days 8 - 10: Remove half of the tank water each day and replace with unsalted, chlorine-free water at the correct temperature.

If by day 7 you see any improvement (but not a total cure), wait until day 10 to start changing the water in the tank. Be sure to change half the water once a day, for three days at the end of the salt treatment. Also, don't wait longer than 10 days to start changing the water, as the salt itself can begin to cause problems for your fish.


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## Nastenka (Dec 6, 2009)

Thank you very much for the info. Could you please explain to me briefly/point me to a link about setting up a hospital tank? I have a very limited budget at the moment, unfortunately, but I'll try my best to get it working. 

What do I need? What size tank, what kind of filtration system, heater etc? Also, how can I cycle it fairly quickly (I guess things from my current tank will help?). Will I need to treat all of the guppies with the salt (the males as well)? Also, what kind of salt? Special aquarium salt of some kind? One more thing - US gallons, are you talking about?  

My current tank is 63 litre capacity (Jewel Rekord 600). Generally I've not had many problems, but female guppies don't seem to do too well (bad ratio of males to females, I know. Plus this one was actually born in the tank and perhaps there were some problems with inbreeding etc).

Thank you for your help and sorry for all the questions!


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

My hospital tank is/was a ten gallon bare bottom tank with a plain jane ten gallon filter. I kept it at 78 degrees. You can set up a smaller one if you need to. The point is simply to have a cycled place for them to go. I keep one healthy fish in the tank to keep it from growing dormant, and will pull her out if I need to treat anything in it.

If it's new you can seed it with a filter cartridge fresh from your current tank.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

aren't the ph for guppies 6.5???? mine were breeding like crazy when i kept it at a constant ph6.5 with a ph blocker


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

kitten_penang said:


> aren't the ph for guppies 6.5???? mine were breeding like crazy when i kept it at a constant ph6.5 with a ph blocker


Guppies do well in water up to 8.0 and ones that have been acclimated to salty water can do well in even higher.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

^.^ ty for the new info. i have a tank coming in for guppies soon..... so i'm looking up for some new strain. any i deas?


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

I was researching brackish tanks for a while and one guy had acclimated his colorful guppies to the salt water. This can open a lot of avenues as far a strange bedfellow tanks. 

I'm not much of an aficionado when it comes to guppies. I just get what's pretty.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

my mom took a sw fish as a adolecent and it grew up in a fw pond ??? guess fish do get used to the surroundings 0.0


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

Very few fish can branch over from one end to the other. Do your research and learn how experienced fishheads do it. The article I saw said the guy went slowly, like 6 months slow, suffered many casualties, but eventually succeeded.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

many casualties??? i don't think i could be that cruel to use guppies in experiments.it's just like those lab people testing stuff on innocent animals.


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## Nastenka (Dec 6, 2009)

TexasTanker said:


> My hospital tank is/was a ten gallon bare bottom tank with a plain jane ten gallon filter. I kept it at 78 degrees. You can set up a smaller one if you need to. The point is simply to have a cycled place for them to go. I keep one healthy fish in the tank to keep it from growing dormant, and will pull her out if I need to treat anything in it.
> 
> If it's new you can seed it with a filter cartridge fresh from your current tank.


I've bought a new tank now, which I'll either use as a hospital tank or one to re-home the guppy males. My female died over the weekend, unfortunately  But to be honest I wasn't expecting her to recover. The tank is an Aqua One Aqua Start 320 (29 litre capacity), and it comes with and Aqua One Maxi 101F filter (which doesn't have any biological sponges, as far as I can tell, but is "fine" for the size of tank that this is - is this the case?). I'd like to cycle it as soon as possible and was wondering what the best way to do that is. At the moment I've put some stones and other media from my current tank in there, some water from my current tank (and the rest topped up with de-chlorinated tap water) and have the filter running and the temperature at 25 degrees C.

I've heard of fishless cycling, but I'm not sure where I would get ammonia from etc.

After showing my LFS some picture of my guppies they say that 2 of them appear to have fin rot and I should treat them with Waterlife Myxazin Fin Rot & Bacterial (or something like that, I'm at work at the moment and the bottle of meds is at home!). 

So ideally I'd like to cycle my tank asap, then put my 4 guppy males in there for treatment and let that be their new home.

Please let me know if you think this is a good idea and what the best way to go about it is.

Thank you very much


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

i don't think you should add water from he main tank as you said the fishes are suffering from fin rot there.it's kinda contaminated with the parasite.you should try to set up the new tank with de-chlorinated tap water and let it run for a few days with a carbon filter.carbon removes a lot of unwanted stuff from the tank. after that remove the carbon and add the fish and medicine according to what the it says on the package.don't know whether people do it this way but it works for me


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

In terms of filters and seeding a new tank etc. 

Basically all the hard bodies (filter, walls, substrate, decor) all have the beneficial bacteria on them. Putting that int eh tank sans fish will only succeed in depleting that BB that you seeded.

What I do for new tanks is set it up, or in the case of the hospital tank, plug it in. Then I place one or two hardy fish in there. After a day or so I seed the tank with a filter (a hard body containing BB). If it is not the same kind as the new tank filter, simply drop it in there. 

It does not take very long for the BB to propagate and it will do so according to the needs of the tank.

In your case, I'd go ahead and put the sick fish in the new tank and start treating them ASAP. Carbon will neutralize the medicine, don't use that. If you use a water conditioner such as Seacham's Prime, it will remove nearly everything from the water and is not harmful to the sick fishies.

Give it a day, then seed the tank.

This is not a spontaneous cycle but it can cut it down very quickly. In my 16 gallon tanks they were leveled after only a week.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Would agree with treatment of guppies in seperate tank.
Would also note that Male guppies in absence of numerous females, may continue to nip fins of other males as I attempted to point out in another thread. 
Also note that tetras too,, often nip the fins of guppies and other fishes with long flowing fins.
Once fins are damaged, they can heal but ammonia and nitrites must read zero. Otherwise,,all the medications you wish to use will be ineffective. Non zero ammonia and nitrite readings are stressful to lethal for fishes and fishes under stress often succumb to various ailments including fin rot which can lead to secondary infections if water quality is suffering. 
Is possible that fin nipping in this instance by male guppies or also tetras,combined with elevated nitrite levels worked to compromise the immune system of the fishes and led to possible infection though photos of male guppies I saw ,did not indicate this.
Also entirely possible that the female guppy, like the first female guppy, was stressed by the attentions of numerous males and succumbed literally from the stress.Four females to each male guppy is recommended.
Would also submit that the approx 16 gal Juwel Rekord? that the fishes were originally in , may not by design,, have sufficient surface area for beneficial bacteria to colonize in proportion to numbers of fish if they are too numerous. Might consider adding small sponge filter in addition to the filter built into the hood of the rekford if indeed this is the tank that housed or is housing the fish.
Would also consider that that neon tetras don't last long in hard alkaline waters that guppies enjoy and they like cooler temps than guppies and perhaps the black neon's loosing color would be an indication that water did not suit them.
Is often a snowball effect when water quality is compromised which leads to health issues with fishes we keep. Fishes placed perhaps unknowingly in unsuitable conditions (ie) poor compatibilty with other fishes, poor male to female ratio's , and most commonly,,, fishes that don't share same requirements with regards to water chemistry.
I have been responsible for the death of fishes too numerous to mention while learning that taking care of your water ,and researching the fishes needs before purchasing can save much frustration.
Study the fishes water chemistry needs,diets,compatibility with other fishes,and use quarantine tank for new fishes. Has worked well for me.


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## Nastenka (Dec 6, 2009)

Thank you for your help, everyone. My guppies are now in a new tank and seem to be doing well. So thank you very much


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