# One of the Blood Parrot acting odd



## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

I have 4. 

One for the last few says has been stayin at the bottom lazy to come get food. its bottom fins are tucked in and has a mark on its temple. somewhat looks like a pimple but no sure if it always had that.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

We need to know more information before we can be of any help.

Please go here and answer the questions asked. Once answered, post it here for us to read, please.
http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=882

Once we have that information we'll be able to help you.


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

1. Size of aquarium (# of gallons) 65
2. Is your aquarium setup freshwater or brackish water? fresh
3. How long the aquarium has been set up? 4 years
4. What fish and how many are in the aquarium (species are important to know) 4 blood parrot 3 tri color shark and 6 angel
5. Are there live plants in the aquarium? NO
6. What temperature is the tank water currently? 23.5
7. What make/model filter are you using? EHEIM CANNISTER
8. Are you using a CO2 unit? NO 
9. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? NO
10. When did you perform your last water exchange, and how much water was changed? 3 PAILS A WEEK AGO
11. How often do you perform water changes? USE TO EVERY 3 WEEKS I HAVE BEEN ADVISED TO CHANGE ONCE A WEEK 30%
12. How often and what foods do you feed your fish? ALMOST EACH DAY. MOSTLY FLAKE FOOD &PELLETS, I TREAT THEM TO DRY BRINE SHRIMP AND KRILL EACH WEEK OR SO
13. What type of lighting are you using and how long is it kept on? 8 HOURS ON TIMER
14. What specific concerns bring you here at this time? ONE BLOOD PARROT HAS BEEN SITTING AT BOTTOM FOR A WEEK NOW STARTED OFF WITH A MARK ON TEMPLE THAT LOOKS LIKE A PIMPLE NOW HAS EXPANDED
15. What are your water parameters? Test your pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. PH IS 6.6
16. What test kit are you using and is it liquid or test strips? LIQUID
17. When was the last time you bought a fish and how did they behave while in the pet store tank? 3 WEEKS , FINE


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

That's a lot of fish in a 65 gallon tank. Without the rest of your water params, there's not much anyone can tell you. Chances are your nitrate levels are high, and also possibly ammonia and nitrite too. What is the pH in your tap water or source water when you do water changes?

The first thing I can say is that those fish need a much larger tank. If, after 4 yrs they all still fit into a 65 gallon tank, their growth has surely been stunted, and likely by poor water quality. Anything powerful enough to stunt growth is going to cause internal damage as well.

The "pimple" you describe... can you get a picture of it? 

It sounds to me like there are a number of issues, and this is just the first fish to show symptoms. Once we have the rest of the water params (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and the pH from the source/tap water) then we can help more.


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

Best pic i could take keeps hiding on me. 

Whats good setting to pic camera on keep getting blurred.


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

Do you have a macro setting? I seem to get better pics using it, whatever it is


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Even without a clear picture, that appears to be hole in the head disease. 

The problem with treatment is going to be your population. Can you please post the rest of your water params? (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) 

The meds needed to treat this can't be used in a polluted aquarium, and I have to expect that this one is, based on the info you've posted thus far. 

Unless you can provide a much larger tank and/or seperate these fish so the tank isn't so grossly overpopulated, there isn't much that can be done. If you move it to a quarantine tank and treat it there, the fish may recover, but once it goes back into the tank, you will see the same problem begin again, and probably rather quickly. It is also just a matter of time before your other fish start to deveolp the same and/or other issues, all for the same reason... the tank isn't big enough for whats in it.

Can you please also post pictures of the sharks so we can properly identify them? At 4 yrs old all of those fish should be full grown or close to it. Angels should be between 6 - 8 inches in diameter, the blood parrots should be 8 - 10 inches, and depending on the type of sharks... anywhere from 6-8 inches and larger. These sizes are for each fish.

The blurring in your photos is from movement. The fact that the entire picture is blurred, this tells me it was the camera that moved, not the fish in the tank. If your camera has a manual focus, don't worry about background, focus it on the fish. It can take a few minutes to get a clear picture, and the photo should be snapped when the fish is still, even if momentary. 
Can you please include a picture of the entire tank? That will also tell us a lot about the situation.


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

3 parrots are 5-6"m 1 parrot is 3"
sharks are 5-6"
angels are new. 

how large of a tank do I need to quarentine the sick one. I have to buy more testers to get the rest of the water parameters. what do i need to buy for the hole in the head disease?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

For the moment, 30 gallons should be enough for a quarantine tank.

I can't suggest meds until I know all of the test results. Some meds are more effective than others, but also can't be used in poor water quality without wiping out the tank.

If the angels are new, now would be a good time to get them out of there. That tank can't sustain what is in it, and this is only the first of many problems to come if they all stay in there. 

Can you get a clearer picture of the sharks? From these pics they look like bala sharks. Google bala sharks and check out the pics of them... is this what you have in there? Balas get 14 inches....


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## bf2king (Aug 3, 2007)

tri color sharks are another name for bala sharks and yes from the picture they are bala's. wich should be kept in a 6 ft tank minimal.


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## okiemavis (Nov 10, 2007)

There also looks to be a Boemani rainbow in there...just pointing out.


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

yes they are bala. I tested the water that i am putting in and them ph is 7.6

I will post more water parameters tomorrow. 
What should i do with the angels?


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## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

No offense, but that looks like a really small 65G tank. Your one big parrot is like 1/5 or 1/6 the size of the tank, and he is only 5-6".


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## bf2king (Aug 3, 2007)

looks like a 65 tall to me


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Looks way overcrowded already and most of those fish are still young. 

Looks like a nightmare in the making.

I would suggest either a tank of their own (6 angels will need about 125 - 150 gallons within the first yr or 2), or maybe returning them to the LFS. If they stay in that tank, you risk losing all of the fish, not just the angels. The bala sharks will have to go as well. 

To keep all of the fish you have there, you're looking at about 300 - 400 gallons by the time everything is full grown. Fish grow quickly when healthy, though the balas a little slower than most. If you use the average stocking rule, 1 inch of adult fish per gallon for sharks and angels, and 1 inch of adult fish per five gallons for the parrots (because they're known to be waste machines)...
3 balas = (14 inches each) 42 inches
1 bosemani rainbow = 4 - 5 inches
6 angelfish = (6 - 8 inches diameter each) 18 - 24 inches
3 blood parrots = (8 - 10 inches each) 24 - 30 inches

That gives you 88 - 101 inches... without taking into account that you're dealing with aggressive fish with the angels, and the sharks need length to swim. I always told the kids at the store to go home and cut out paper plates or construction paper fish in the adult size ranges, and then hold them all up to the tank... common sense is enough to tell anyone that they won't fit. Then there is the question of waste levels, which will require a lot of filtration, lots of water changes, and regular water testing. 

My 220 gallon has 2 adult oscars in it and one 12 inch pleco, and just looking at that tank you can see its full. The oscars are about 13 - 14 inches each. If a water change is missed for a wk or more, the fish get sick because the waste build up gets so bad. The one oscar I have in a 75 hospital tank needs a water change every other day to keep his waste levels down. One fish alone... that tank is full. 

I hope this gives you an idea of why we're all commenting on your stocking list. Even with getting rid of the angels, you're going to still need about 125 - 150 gallons minimum for the rest of those fish, until the balas grow up.


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

My water test results are:
Upper ph-7.4
Ammonia-0
nh2-0
nh3-40 (hard to tell by color chart)

How often do u should I be changeing the media in my ehiem, i was told to only change half at a time and the tube type at the bottom i did not have to change is this correct?


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

For a properly stocked tank, yes, that is correct. 

In your situation, though, there are going to be 2 choices. Changing all of the floss media at once, use tank water to completely rince out the filter and the sponge media.... or do the changes much more often. Instead of once/month you may have to do it twice/month, and still a good idea to use some tank water to rinse the canister and sponge media out then, too.

What test kits are you using? The color charts vary according to the manufacturer putting out the tests. With API its best to hold the vial up against a piece of plain white paper when checking color comparison... with Sera kits its better to look into the vial after setting it on a piece of white paper. Tests should always be read in a well lit room, also. 

You listed pH as "upper pH"... the API kits will typically contain a low range pH and a high range pH. If you test high range and get a low reading, it's also a good idea to test low range too. The high range can only go down to a certain level, and if the pH is below that level there is no way to know where it is really at unless you test low end as well. The same applies in reverse. If you're testing softened water and the test comes out at the top of the end of results, you'll then have to test high range to get an accurate reading.
Test both pH with the kit and then compare the results. If it is within the range of both test kits then it will give you the same reading from both.

Also, that nitrate level is right on the edge of too much for safely medicating. You'll want to do daily water changes over the course of the next wk to bring it down. When testing the water, always make sure to do it *before* a water change, *never* after. Once the nitrate is down to at least 25 - 30 then I can suggest some meds for you. 

Knowing the age of those parrotfish and the size they are and should be, I would also strongly suggest checking the pH in your tap or source water, to see if there is any difference, and if there is, how much. If there is more than .2 difference in pH, keep the water changes to no more than 10% each time to avoid shocking the fish.


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

so my water parameters are ok?

By floss media do u mean both (rocks and tubes?) Am i changing it or just cleaning it. If im changing it do i change it all or half?

The lower ph was in the previous post. Im using the API kit.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Rocks and tubes don't get changed. The rocks is a biomedia called Ephimech. The tubes, otherwise referred to as "noodles" don't get changed. The biomedia will break down over time, so you will need to add some more as the level drops. Are there any sponge media or floss (looks like stiff easter grass) in there? What model number is it?


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

I have the 2215 are these good filters? Ive noticed the flow rate has dropped alot since new as have others in the reviews i have been reading. 
I have been told by the LFS to change the media every 6 months or so half at a time. 

I have in the there starting from the top is:
Thin carbon pad
2 White pad (use to be 1 i run it with 2 for some reason)
media
blue pad (i guess this is the easter grass lol )
noodles. 

Is there anything i should add or remove? I some people running such different combinations within the filter and i dont know why.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

Eheim is designed to run using primarily biological filtration. The media that goes into it should be largely dependent on the stocking of the tank... in your case, the stocking is way over the limit. That filter alone is not going to sustain what you're keeping in that tank, regardless of the media in it.

The blue pad is not the floss.


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

ok i just have the BP and balas left now i sold the others. 

So what media should i have in the filter?


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## ilikefish (Mar 13, 2008)

Can any of my fish be used in a pond? what are good pond fish other than koi


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