# Popeye treatment



## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Hey all,

Upon feeding today, i saw that my bolivian ram has a severe case of popeye and is just sitting at the bottom of the tank. I am unsure of the cause. I am reading that dosing Maracyn will help, however, I do not have a hospital tank, is it possible to treat the fish in a bucket? I lack a separate filter for said bucket but I can do daily water changes and run an air stone, will that be sufficient or make things worse? Also will netting the fish cause any damage to her?

-Sin


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Hmmm...I wonder about your pH and hardness levels. Are they alkaline and hard?

The lack of filtration can be compensated with daily water changes and aeration. Buckets and tubs are fine as long as they are not contaminated with any harmful chemicals. The only downside is you cannot observe the fish fromany angles than the top but it's still doable.

Pop eye is often caused by fluid retention because of poor water quality thus disabling the osmotic balance, nitrogen supersaturation, nutritional deficiencies or bacterial infections. We need to rule out the water quality and nitrogen supersaturation as the causes first. Do daily water changes and keep water well aerated. Observe in the next five days for improvement. Give it a varied diet.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Shes not eating, actually shes not even moving, shes just sitting at the bottom breathing heavily. My last water change was 2 days ago, 45% and 20% change the week before. My water goes through a softener so it has low GH, but the KH was fairly high last time i checked. I toss in chalk every few months to boost the GH for my inverts. My ph is 7.6-7.8, i will do an updated test tomorrow.

I will move her into a bucket tomorrow, and start the airstone. The other thing is, I dosed maracyn to fight BGA a couple of weeks ago, in addition to nuking the BGA, my water should be fairly low on any bacteria from the maracyn? 

Should i try aquarium salt after moving the fish to the bucket? And should i medicate the entire tank incase the cause is bacterial and contagious?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

But why did you resort to antibiotics to kill the BGA? That would destroy your beneficial bacteria. What are ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in your main tank?

No, don't treat your tank. Keep the fish separated and stick to clean water and aeration for now. You may add a teaspoon per gallon of sodium chloride although calcium may be more useful. I haven't figured out yet the calcium concentration in rams' blood but I do know that with goldfish, it is 250 ppm so hardness to prevent dropsy in goldfish has to be increased to 250 ppm to keep the osmoregulation balanced.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Lupin said:


> But why did you resort to antibiotics to kill the BGA? That would destroy your beneficial bacteria. What are ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in your main tank?


I know the answer to this. Sin was fed up with the BGA (as am I) and while a black out will knock it back a bit it won't get it all. Maracyn nukes it, once and for all. I wonder if Maracyn on a healthy fish (like the Ram) could have caused or contributed to the popeye? Of course, I'm sure the BB was compromised, wonder if this sudden change stressed the ram, or the massive die off of BGA??


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

aunt kymmie said:


> I know the answer to this. Sin was fed up with the BGA (as am I) and while a black out will knock it back a bit it won't get it all. Maracyn nukes it, once and for all. I wonder if Maracyn on a healthy fish (like the Ram) could have caused or contributed to the popeye? Of course, I'm sure the BB was compromised, wonder if this sudden change stressed the ram, or the massive die off of BGA??


Oh, you know everything going on, lady!:notworthy:

Yes, the former is likely. That's why I asked for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate results. When you use antibiotics, there is almost always a guarantee you'll lose most of the BB and the nitrogen cycle crashes causing fluid retention behind the eyes as the fish becomes stressed. A stressed fish is forced to work up its energy to keep an osmotic balance.


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## leogtr (Jan 19, 2011)

oh my god Im learning so much!! you guys are so knowledgeable!!!!!!:greenyay:

(sorry for intruding I just wanted to know what the popeye treatment was, thought maybe it had to do with spinach)


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Well the nuke occured a while ago(2-3weeks), any cycle would have occured or at least started already. Additionally, the tank is well planted, so that would have buffered a lot of those changes? Also, I am keeping up with water changes 20-50% a week.

Another strange thing is that the rams were fine up until yesterday. When i changed the water Sunday, the fish were all still very active and eating well. I missed a feeding Monday due to work, so i dont know if thats when the popeye started.

I will test my water when i get home after work and post the results.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

SinCrisis said:


> Well the nuke occured a while ago(2-3weeks), any cycle would have occured or at least started already. Additionally, the tank is well planted, so that would have buffered a lot of those changes? Also, I am keeping up with water changes 20-50% a week.
> 
> Another strange thing is that the rams were fine up until yesterday. When i changed the water Sunday, the fish were all still very active and eating well. I missed a feeding Monday due to work, so i dont know if thats when the popeye started.
> 
> I will test my water when i get home after work and post the results.


Depends what plants you have and how fast they will absorb the substances enough to prevent the fish from getting stressed.

Technically, nitrogen cycle is a never ending process.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Well, i went to move my fish today and she was gone. Just gone, i cant find her, i moved rocks, wood, plants and shes just not in the tank anymore. However, my other bolivian ram is flashing, shes rubbing her stomache on the gravel, might there be a parasite in my tank? I see no symptoms from my other fish.


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