# whats wrong with my fish



## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

ok so i have a 55 gallon thats been set up for a year. the current stock is
1-festivum
4-quarter sized angels
8-cherry barbs
8-juvenile eastern mountain swordtails
1-syno petricola
1-bristlenose pleco
1-ram
a lot is being moved around so do not put any comments about stocking. all fish are juveniles except the cherry barbs and ram. params are 0-ammo, 0-nitrite, 10-nitrate. filteration is 1 tetra 30-60 and one aquatech 30-60. 75%+ water changes weekly. moderately planted. i put my hand in the tank today and it felt colder than it should be. i plan on getting the temp tommorrow (forgot) so the problem is ive had 2 deaths in the past week. i quarentine all fish so it cant be from any new fish. what has happened is he fish begin to act weak and lethargic and dont eat much if any then they slowely starve and at the end they can barely swim. so far ive lost a beautiful angel and a beautiful gold ram. the angel died while i was gone on vacation a week ago and the ram died a few days ago. so heres a break down of it all
-cant be from new fish, all mine are quarentine for atleast 2 weeks but for this tank fish were quarentined for a month or more.
-cant be from bad paramaters (theyre perfect)
-could be from temp swings. my rooms ac isnt working properly so the temp of the tank could be changing plus the heater didnt even feel like it was working today.
well thats all i can think of at the moment.
thanks


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

It could have been from new fish.

I would read up on wasting disease.

What Is Chronic Wasting Syndrome? — Loaches Online


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

jaysee said:


> It could have been from new fish.
> 
> I would read up on wasting disease.
> 
> What Is Chronic Wasting Syndrome? — Loaches Online


so what should i do to cure it?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

No idea. I cull such fish.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

you cull a fish when it gets a disease? thats mean


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm a mean guy.

yes, there are certain ailments that I do not bother treating. Wasting disease is one.

IMO mean is drawing out an inevitable death.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

could it spread to all of my fish? would feeding with garlic help them since it would keep their immune system up? how do i get the grlic onto the flakes?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

IME it does not spread to the other fish. Feeding garlic is always a good thing and is an excellent proactive step to maintaining healthy fish - NLS thera A has a lot of garlic in it. I do not feed flakes, so I don't know. I have heard that soaking them in garlic oil is good, but I have read that the oil isn't worth more than an appetite stimulant, so that would not be effective for what you want it to do.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

oh well i have garlic guard. ill see if i can afford nls tomorrow. its expensive.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Quality is rarely cheap.

You can get a 300 gram container of thera A on amazon for $20. That will last you 3-4 months, maybe more. Break that down to a per diem rate and it costs less than a quarter a day. Not so expensive. Your fish's health is worth $1.50 a week, right?


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

yea but im 16 and im looking for a job. if i had a job right now that would be pretty cheao and id buy it. i have 20-30 dollars right now to spend on a hood for my 30 breeder if its cheap enough ill buy some nls too.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

It's summer - mow some lawns 

There are also 150g and 75g containers, but they are $15 and $12 respectively - you are way better off getting the 300g.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

jaysee said:


> It's summer - mow some lawns
> 
> There are also 150g and 75g containers, but they are $15 and $12 respectively - you are way better off getting the 300g.


im looking for an actual job. if i dont get one ill probably get my aunt to start me up a buisness mowing lawns. since she has a push mower, one of those expensive john dear weird looking lawn mowers, and a weed eater.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Just want to say, I'm 17 and currently jobless (give me a break- doing summer school and an unpayed work placement right now). I've been dashing around the house selling things on kijiji for my money (craigslist in America). Don't know if that's a possibility, most teens have a lot of junk though. My parents let me sell things like our old furniture, tvs, and satellites as long as I take the time to do the photos and put the ad up myself.
Fast money. :-D


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

we dont really have old stuff to sell. anyway what new life spectrum should i feed and how long will the ones at petco last my fish? i would be feeding angelfish, cherry barbs, syno petricola, cpds, pygmy corys, endlers, swordtails, rams, killifish, some cichlids also. i may just save up and buy the larger quantity.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Thera A is my preferred formula. It has more garlic than the others. Of course how long it lasts will depend on how much you feed. I would expect the 300g to last at least 3 months, maybe as long as 6 if the fish are still small.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

jaysee said:


> Thera A is my preferred formula. It has more garlic than the others. Of course how long it lasts will depend on how much you feed. I would expect the 300g to last at least 3 months, maybe as long as 6 if the fish are still small.


 ok cool hopefully ill have enough to buy it.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Sorry to hijack, but i will be going to pick up some NLS, and I was wondering what type to buy?
My fish are guppies, cherry barbs, betta, RN pleco and BN pleco.
Im assuming ill need two different type of food, one for the plecos and one for everyone else. 
Would this one be a good size/type?
New Life Spectrum Thera-A Regular Formula 1mm Sinking Pellet Fish Food at PETCO
or this one
New Life Spectrum Small Fish Formula .5mm Sinking Pellet Fish Food at PETCO

And how about this one for the plecos?
New Life Spectrum H20 Stable Wafers 1/2 Inch Sinking Wafer Fish Food at PETCO
I would still give zucchini, though should i still supplement with other algea wafers? or is there enough in nls?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

The 0.5 mm is good for small fish, as small as guppy fry. 1 mm is good for most adult smaller community fish, like what you have. 2 mm is good for larger community fish. 

My plecos eat the 2 mm pellets.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

jaysee said:


> Thera A is my preferred formula. It has more garlic than the others. Of course how long it lasts will depend on how much you feed. I would expect the 300g to last at least 3 months, maybe as long as 6 if the fish are still small.


 which suze do i get?


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

i got the medium one. i think im gonna get small too. maybe large eventually.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

so i think its spreading. one of my cherry barbs is skinny looking. not the usually plump looking body now it looks more torpedo shaped. my festivum didnt eat today, and my ram was eating and then spitting out the pellets.i dont know what to do any ive got a whole bunch of fish comming in this week. several angels and some syno petricola.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

is it possible that they died from not eating bc the tank is too cold? i didnt realize it but the tank is around 75. i know rams can become sick in too cold of water. im going to try a and get a new heater asap.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

No, 75 isn't that cold. As someone else said, it's sounding like internal parasites.

I would not add the new fish to the 55.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

how do i get rid of it? the temp has been flunctuating in my room also. from 70-80 during the day.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

You could try prazipro. It's expensive, and will not treat all internal parasites. So it may work and it may not. You could also try lavamisole. It's not easy to find though. Levamisole works by paralyzing the parasites, which allows the fish to pass them, so you would want to treat them in another tank. 3 treatments are required since the eggs will not be passed. No guarantee that will work either, without knowing for sure that's the problem.

It could possibly be a bacterial thing, in which case treating with maracyn and maracyn 2 would handle both gram positive and negative bacterias. These meds are also expensive., ESPECIALLY treating a larger tank. Again, without knowing for sure that's the problem, it's just a shot in the dark. An expensive shot at that.

You could try the treatment suggested in the link I provided you.


This is all part of why I don't bother treating such fish.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

so all of my fish are destined to die and i will need to clean the whole tank and start over?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

allaboutfish said:


> so all of my fish are destined to die and i will need to clean the whole tank and start over?


No, not necessarily. Time will tell. I know you quarantined the fish, but some things take longer than 2 weeks to manifest.

I believe that taking a proactive approach for the well being of the rest of the fish is the best thing to do in this case, which means removing such fish as soon as they start showing signs.

If you don't have the budget to conduct treatments, that really limits your options.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

jaysee said:


> No, not necessarily. Time will tell. I know you quarantined the fish, but some things take longer than 2 weeks to manifest.


 quarentined for a month +


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Still. They may or may not have been showing early symptoms during that time. 

can you post pictures of the fish, or a video??


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

no my phone wont upload internet so there isnt anyway for me to


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

temp is 78 now. festivum ate and cherry barb tried to eat the nls. ive got to go and get the smaller formula soon. iv feed soooo much today to see if i could get them to eat. im glad tomorrow is water change day. (all of it was eatin but im sure they are producing a lot of waste)


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Have you noticed any stringy white poop?


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

nope


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Are any others displaying beginning symptoms? IME, cichlids that go off their feed may have internal parasites, but this was a more common experience for me among Africans than South or Central Americans. I relied on huge water changes and occasional use of Clout, which is an anti-parasitic. Do not use this indiscriminately on the entire tank. I would be especially cautious about your catfish. Isolate affected fish and treat in quarantine. Do large water changes after use. Many of my fish regained their appetites following treatment and never looked back. 

I know you are in transition with these fish, but for me, the risks of such interim housing outweigh the rewards. It sounds like you have an enviable collection (I am drooling over your swordtails) and I would be anxious to split these up into their individual tanks as quickly as possible. 

I agree that euthanizing fish is sometimes the more humane tack to take, especially if the fish is refusing food and having trouble maintaining equilibrium. I think it's especially important to isolate affected fish, because the harrassment and competition only hastens the end and intensifies the suffering. . .

I have used garlic extract on occasion, but also read enough opinion pieces to make me think it's nothing more than "snake oil." My opinion is it can't hurt. Good luck. Sounds like you have lots of projects coming up.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Not all forms of garlic are equally effective. The oil/juice isn't good for more than an appetite stimulant, for example.

The health benefits of garlic are well documented, and many believe that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Hardly snake oil, though there are no doubt some products that look to capitalize on it without providing much benefit, as there are with everything.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

sidluckman said:


> Are any others displaying beginning symptoms? IME, cichlids that go off their feed may have internal parasites, but this was a more common experience for me among Africans than South or Central Americans. I relied on huge water changes and occasional use of Clout, which is an anti-parasitic. Do not use this indiscriminately on the entire tank. I would be especially cautious about your catfish. Isolate affected fish and treat in quarantine. Do large water changes after use. Many of my fish regained their appetites following treatment and never looked back.
> 
> I know you are in transition with these fish, but for me, the risks of such interim housing outweigh the rewards. It sounds like you have an enviable collection (I am drooling over your swordtails) and I would be anxious to split these up into their individual tanks as quickly as possible.
> 
> ...


 i was supposed to move my swords and cherry barbs to the 30 breeder by the time my syndolntis and angels got here but i guess instead ill be quarentining the new fish until i know the fish in the main tank are better. i have ordered a new heater and the thera + small fish formula. the end stock for my 55 will be
5-6 angels
1-2-rams
3-syno petricola
i was also supposed to move the festivum to my 120 in a week along with my blue gourami in quarentine but unless all symptoms are gone nobodys moving out. the good news is that all fish are now eating. or atleast trying to. the cherry barb was pecking at the pellets but theyre too big for its mouth. tomorrow i will do a huge 75% water change with prime. i wish my python would connect to this sink. ive been watching my perams closely to make sure my params never get past 0,0,20 and so far so good.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

oh and no its just the cherry barb really. the festivum i guess was just scared bc it was at the front of the tank earlier so i dropped in a little food and it ate. its really just the cherry barbs appearance i think. i will try and get a picture of it. the ram that died i think was bc of the lower temp and the angel is from a bad aquabidder that i shouldnt have bought from joegargas. after purchasing i learned a lot of his angels are diseased.


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## skipperdee (Mar 1, 2012)

hope your fish all get better, one of my Angels stopped eating for a while, then suddenly started again - still don't know what the problem was!!!


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

75 is very low for german rams - should be in the low to mid 80's. I think the water temp could have contributed to it's death, but I don't think it caused it. . 

You can crush up the pellets a little so the smaller fish can eat it.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

jaysee said:


> 75 is very low for german rams - should be in the low to mid 80's. I think the water temp could have contributed to it's death, but I don't think it caused it. .
> 
> You can crush up the pellets a little so the smaller fish can eat it.


 yea i just bought a new heater. gonna set it on 80. here's some pics of the cherry barb male. i dont think theres anything wrong with him now. if there was i dont think hed still be chasing the females.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Wow, hes got a long tail!
Though the picture is blurry, so thats all i can see.
Its tough to get a decent picture!
I wouldent worry about the size of the food for the cherries, though breaking them up will help. im currently feeding mine granules, and i watched one of my females pile five pieces in her mouth, race away, spit them out and eat them all one by one. Also, ive seen guppies and cherries alike carrying around a granule eating it on the go!


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

well you can see his shape in the pic. thats why im worried. look what he looks like compared to the female. i wish i couldve gotten a pic of him with another male. yea i have a couple of fantail cherry barbs.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

you can't compare males to females - they are different. It looks to me like there might be a slight deviance with it's body lines, but it's too soon to tell anything.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

The "bad angel" is why rushing leads to trouble. Aquabid is a cool concept, but we sometimes need to slow down for the sake of the fish we already have. When we feel pressured to buy quickly, problems can come up. But trust me, fish keepers a lot more knowledgeable and famous than you have admitted to doing the same thing. 

Anyway, I hope you can get it all sorted out.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

sidluckman said:


> The "bad angel" is why rushing leads to trouble. Aquabid is a cool concept, but we sometimes need to slow down for the sake of the fish we already have. When we feel pressured to buy quickly, problems can come up. But trust me, fish keepers a lot more knowledgeable and famous than you have admitted to doing the same thing.
> 
> Anyway, I hope you can get it all sorted out.


 yea i do rush sometimes. thats why when i ordered my new angels i made sure he was a reliable source.


jaysee said:


> you can't compare males to females - they are different. It looks to me like there might be a slight deviance with it's body lines, but it's too soon to tell anything.


 well yea but my males look pretty similar in size to my females. hes the only one that looks a little different (skinnier) but if he were sick would he still be trying to breed with females? hes very active. im just gonna monitor the tank for the next few weeks very closely.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

It could be that he is a longer tailed version, or maybe he's just younger!
Try taking a video, I find even a bad quality vid shows more than a picture!


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

will post a video once i upload it to flickr. hopefully i can figure out how to get it on here.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

here's a better pic. couldnt upload a video


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

I do see a small dip in his body before the tail starts, but again, that could just be because he long finned. do you have any other long finned ones for comparison? And i upload all my vids to youtube, and then post a link..its much easier that way.
Is he acting differently than the others?


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> I do see a small dip in his body before the tail starts, but again, that could just be because he long finned. do you have any other long finned ones for comparison? And i upload all my vids to youtube, and then post a link..its much easier that way.
> Is he acting differently than the others?


 the one right beside him is longfin. although you cant see that one very well. i only have 2 that are longfin. no he acts the same. eats, chases females, chases males, etc.


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## allaboutfish (Jul 16, 2012)

here's my other longfin cherry barb.


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