# My Fish are dying



## rlsmith57 (Mar 16, 2008)

I have always had very good luck with aquariums my entire life, but since I have moved back home I am having no luck. I got a small hex 5 gal and though that would be nice for the bedroom (WRONG). When I would put fish in they would die within a few days. So I thought maybe it is the filter because the water was always murky looking. So I got a better filter. That didnt' work. So I went out and bought myself a nice 20 gal for Christmas. I had a male betta, 2 females bettas, a golden chinese algea eater, and a pleclostumus. It has been set up since Christmas (approx 2 months) and no trouble at all. I decided 3 days ago to get some more fish. I purchased 2 silver mollies, 2 dalmation mollies, and 2 Mickey Mouse. Came home, let them float for over an hour, and then added them to the take. One of the silver mollies died within an hour. Next morning when I woke, one of the Mickey's were dead. I went and returned them and got 3 more Mickey's (this makes 4), another Silver molly (to make a pair), and 4 neon tetras. Came home next day from work and one of the dalmations were dead along with 2 of the tetras. 

Today one of my females died from whatever this is, and the other female is acting pure goofy...... like she is going into spasms or something...... 

My setup is a Magnum 350 premium with Bio-wheel. I do a 20 percent water change every week. The water had always looked murky or muddy until I got the Magnum canister filter about 3 weeks ago. 

I have tried Quick Cure (I read that on another list I am on) and that hasn't seemed to work, just made it worse. 

Any suggestions.


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## Fishcricker (Feb 16, 2008)

Did you cycle your tank?


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## rlsmith57 (Mar 16, 2008)

Yes, I use Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement, and haven't had any problems until now. It is just funny that I got those new fish and one of them died within an hour of being introducted to the tank, and then they started dying one by one on a regular frequency...... Right now since I have introduced the new ones I have had 8 of the fish die. Since I origionally posted this the other female betta has died.


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## SST (Nov 17, 2007)

What are your water parameters?


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

rlsmith57 said:


> I have always had very good luck with aquariums my entire life, but since I have moved back home I am having no luck. I got a small hex 5 gal and though that would be nice for the bedroom (WRONG). When I would put fish in they would die within a few days. So I thought maybe it is the filter because the water was always murky looking. So I got a better filter. That didnt' work. So I went out and bought myself a nice 20 gal for Christmas. I had a male betta, 2 females bettas, a golden chinese algea eater, and a pleclostumus.


Already overstocked..shocked that nobody died



> It has been set up since Christmas (approx 2 months) and no trouble at all. I decided 3 days ago to get some more fish. I purchased 2 silver mollies, 2 dalmation mollies, and 2 Mickey Mouse. Came home, let them float for over an hour, and then added them to the take. One of the silver mollies died within an hour. Next morning when I woke, one of the Mickey's were dead. I went and returned them and got 3 more Mickey's (this makes 4), another Silver molly (to make a pair), and 4 neon tetras. Came home next day from work and one of the dalmations were dead along with 2 of the tetras.


Have you ever tested you water with a liquid test kit? No doubt your ammonia is through the roof. Plus you probably didn't add in any of your tank water while you acclimating, am I correct?



> I have tried Quick Cure (I read that on another list I am on) and that hasn't seemed to work, just made it worse.
> 
> Any suggestions.


Quick cure and Cycle aren't magical liquids that you can just put into the tank and *poof*, everything disappears. Especially the Cycle, you still actually have to DO the Cycle, it just supposedly helps it go faster (not proven). First off, you need to get rid of the pleco unless it's one of the dwarf ones. The CAE will eventually become aggressive if it hasn't already so that needs to find its way out the door too. Male and female Bettas aren't meant to actually live together, so they need to be separated (a tank divider will do nicely). Pick up a test kit if you don't already have one (API is a nice one), and post your tank parameters as soon as possible. Do not buy any more fish until we have this sorted out, who knows if you ended up buying sick ones and if you have a significant level of ammonia in your tank, well...

I hope this helps at all. Keep us posted


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## rlsmith57 (Mar 16, 2008)

*Water readings and other*

Well, Sorry, I overslept today, but I did a reading last night before I went to sleep and the ammonia was .25, the nitrates for both were 0.00 and the ph was 7.0. The setup at present is 1 male betta, 1 pleco about 3", 1 Chinese Algae Eater about 2", 4 mickey mouse, I neon Tetra, and two Mollies. It is a 20 Gallon tank with a 20 gal undergravel filter with charcoal activated filters, a H.O.T. Magnum filter with charcoal also right now until I can get another Micron Filter, that returns to the tank and a Marineland Bio-Wheel Pro 30. 

When I did the water change today and vacuumed the gravel I found to my surprise 4 little ones down hiding in the gravel. They have the coloring of the pleco, but I am not sure what they are or where they came from. The betta is acting a little sick (laying on the bottom slightly on his side or hiding in the plants), but when I did the 25% water change I added Stress_zyme (5ml per gal), the recommended dose of Prime (2 drops per gallon) and 4 teaspoon of aquarium salt and the betta seems to be responding somewhat already and isn't laying slightly on his side. I am going to retest the water in about an hour to see if anything has changed.

Stephanie


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

You shouldn't have ammonia (although it could have something to do with adding the fish), and you SHOULD have nitrates.

You are entirely and extremely way overstocked (a regular pleco alone requires what, a 55 gallon tank?), and the CAE will eventually stop eating algae and start killing your fish. As for the salt, it will probably do more harm than good to some of your fish.

I'd look into finding new homes for pleco and CAE, and get the Betta his own tank, at least 2.5 gallons.


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## rlsmith57 (Mar 16, 2008)

*Typo*

Well, I mistyped, the ammoniam was .025 not .025. I did take the water with me this time. I had to go and get some food for the babies.... The dalmation molly had 9 little ones that I can find, and I am not going to let them get eaten by the larger fish or starve to death. I also got a test strip kit this time so I am testing both ways, the drops into vials and test strips to see if they match. So far they do except for the N3 which is off the chart on the test strip but the drop in the vial tests ok. The pleco and the CAE are going to find new homes for sure. The pleco at the rate he is growing will be larger than the whole aquarium in month or so. hehehe. The CAE right now is only 3 months old and plays with the betta (he chases the betta and then the betta chases him, but I have read that as he ages he will get more agressive.


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## rlsmith57 (Mar 16, 2008)

*typo again*

Sorry, my typing right now is not that great, tired.... the ammonia is .025 not .25,

Also, I am confused...... I have been told a good rule of thumb is 1 in of fish for each gallon of water.... but you keep saying the tank is overstocked!!! How can only 10 fish totaling 18 inches be overstocked..... plus with the betta's being labryinth fish they take less air......

And why shoudl I move the male out by himself. I think he is perfectly happy where he is because he told me so.

Stephanie


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: typo again*



rlsmith57 said:


> Sorry, my typing right now is not that great, tired.... the ammonia is .025 not .25,
> 
> Also, I am confused...... I have been told a good rule of thumb is 1 in of fish for each gallon of water.... but you keep saying the tank is overstocked!!! How can only 10 fish totaling 18 inches be overstocked..... plus with the betta's being labryinth fish they take less air......
> 
> ...


Welcome to Fishforum.com, Stephanie.:wave:

Flashygrrl is right. She meant the CAE can grow to 10 inches which is far too big indeed for a 20g despite being a slow grower. As for the pleco, what species is yours? Chances are that if it is one of the most commonly available species, then you definitely have reached the stocking range. They grow to 18 inches. You may need to replace it with an _Ancistrus_ which is a smaller species of pleco. There are over 400 species that exist, not just the ones we often see.

As far as the inch per gallon rule, it is no hard rule. Just a mere guideline and is flawed. I don't follow it. Take adult size of fish, spacing requirements, tankmates and temperament into consideration when buying a fish.

Lupin


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

Bettababy likes to use a very good example of why that "rule" is flawed. She was working in a fish store one day and someone brought in a 10 inch Oscar, and they'd had it in a 10 gallon tank. Now I know that seems a little silly, but somehow it happened anyways. Needless to say, it didn't work out too well for the fish when they put it in a bigger tank. Too many things had gone wrong with it.

Anyways, unless your fish have room to turn around, to swim, and to behave like nature tells them to behave, then it's not fair to try otherwise. It's up to us, the keepers, to do our research before buying.

As for the Betta, I had read that you also had 2 female Bettas. They don't actually live together that well with males. And it's possible the Betta and the Mollies will get nippy with each other so keep an eye out for that.


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## rlsmith57 (Mar 16, 2008)

Well, as far as the overstock, the pleco has plenty of room, but is growing fast..... the CAE has finally stopped growing..... 

The betta died last night so I don't have to worry about watching him and the mollies. 

As far as the bettas being in the same tank, I don't know why but I had them diviided into seperate bowls when I first got them. Due to the water getting really murky looking I finally decided to put them into the same bowl after doing a LOT of research reading on the bettas. I read in numerous articles that this could be done if they had space. So I got them 20 and moved them into it after it cycled. They all got along great. The CAE actually loved to chase the male but he wouldn't hurt him. The male would get next to the females and just "snuggle" next to them. Now all my origional pretties are gone. Everything I have left now are from the new purchases. 

The dalmation molly had 10 babies and unknown to me, they are ALL still alive. 

I checked my levels this morning and the nitrate has come down on the test strip from 160 to 80. But when I test it through the test tubes it always showed 0.0. How hard should the ater be for the tank? The only way to test that is the strip and the GH is always hight, but the KH is always in the low numbers. But, everyone in the tank excpet one of the mickey mouse seems to be doing ok at this moment, but that doesn't mean anything with the way they have died. 

When the fish have died, they seem ok one minute, then they seem to lose their color and their mouths are always open.. After about an hour or so they are gone. 

I do believe this water here could be the root of all problems. Our water system gets it water from the Tombigee River not an underground source like it used to. But thinking about it, if that was the cause of the problem, then why did it suddenly start with the addition of 4 new fist?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

rlsmith57 said:


> Well, as far as the overstock, the pleco has plenty of room, but is growing fast..... the CAE has finally stopped growing.....


How big is the CAE? How long have you kept it? I would again recommend that the pleco be replaced as soon as possible. Stunting is possible especially in a small tank. This can seriously endanger their health and life.

There is another issue with the CAE which is its temperament. As they mature, they become more aggressive and will harass the other fish constantly to death. This are not your typical community fish at all contrary to what was often claimed by petstore employees. After all, when it comes to a majority of petstores, it's all marketing ploy. 


> I checked my levels this morning and the nitrate has come down on the test strip from 160 to 80. But when I test it through the test tubes it always showed 0.0. How hard should the ater be for the tank? The only way to test that is the strip and the GH is always hight, but the KH is always in the low numbers. But, everyone in the tank excpet one of the mickey mouse seems to be doing ok at this moment, but that doesn't mean anything with the way they have died.


Okay, just to clarify matters, could you please restate the occupants of the tank as of right now? All in the 20g, correct?

What test kits are you using? If your nitrates are that high, this calls for reduction of stocks and increased frequency of water changes.


> When the fish have died, they seem ok one minute, then they seem to lose their color and their mouths are always open.. After about an hour or so they are gone.


Test your tapwater and then the petstore's water and compare both pH and hardness levels. Check the amonia, nitrites and nitrates as well.


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## rlsmith57 (Mar 16, 2008)

How big is the CAE? How long have you kept it? I

The CAE is about 4 inches long, have had him for about 3 months. Pretty docile creature right now since the betta died... He loved to play chase with the male betta. He would chase the betta and then the betta would turn around and chase him.... but since the betta died last night he pretty much hides under a log.

would again recommend that the pleco be replaced as soon as possible. Stunting is possible especially in a small tank. This can seriously endanger their health and life. 


The pleco's new home arrived today..... just for him..... a friend of mine had an aquarium in his garage that he said would be suitable for him.

Okay, just to clarify matters, could you please restate the occupants of the tank as of right now? All in the 20g, correct? 


Right now in the 20gal is 1 lone neon tetra, 1 silver molly, 1 dalmation molly, 4 yellow micky mouse, the CAE and the Pleco.... 

The test kits I am using are API Freshwater Master Test Kit for the tube testing and comparing it to API 5 in 1 Test Strips. I also have an ammonia alert hung in the aquarium. The nitrates have come down on the test strip from 80 to 40, but still testing ok with the test tube. 

The PH is testing at 6.5
The nitrite is testing 0.00


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## Flashygrrl (Jan 18, 2008)

You're shaking everything the correct amount of time, right? And you should always just absolutely just shake the heck out of Bottle #2 to make sure everything is mixed right. It's weird if it's not testing correctly.

And how big is the new tank? He's gonna eventually need a BIG tank.


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## rlsmith57 (Mar 16, 2008)

Yes, I am shaking it as it say.... add 10 drops of bottle 1 and shake the tube 30 seconds. then shake bottle 2 1 minute and add 10 drops then shake shake tube again 1 minute... wait 5 minutes to get results. Don't know if it might just be a bad bottle or if I am just plain stupid. I am surprised though that with the nitrate that high from the test strip that the babies would have survived this long.... Oh I forgot there are also 10 new mollies in the tank that was birthed yesterday.


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