# new to site



## sonflowerjoela

Hello
I'm new to the site. Really love tropical fish profiles :-D

I've got a 72 gallon bow front I've had for 12 years. I want to redo it with colorful freshwater fish that won't fight and kill each other. LOL

I had angelfish in the tank, a school of rummy nose tetras and 2 horse face loaches, then I had to take someones silver dollars and they killed everything in the tank. Now there is one of them left. I'm looking for it
a new home and then I want to start a new community tank. I have found lots of good info on the fish profiles.
I welcome any and all suggestions.
J


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## fish joey

Welcome to TFK :-D


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## Byron

Welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.:-D Glad you find the profiles useful, they are one of our several resources here.

If you post your question in the Freshwater Aquarium section, and include your water parameters (hardness and pH), other members will undoubtedly offer some suggestions. More members check out the specific sections, so they get more action.;-)

Byron.


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## willow

hello and welcome. :-D


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## Tazman

Welcome to TFK


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## Termato

I personally love the Gourami species but with a 75 gallon tank you might be able to get bigger fish unless you want to stay around the 3-4" range.

especially the Dwarf Gourami


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## sonflowerjoela

*gourami*



Termato said:


> I personally love the Gourami species but with a 75 gallon tank you might be able to get bigger fish unless you want to stay around the 3-4" range.
> 
> especially the Dwarf Gourami


 
I love gourami's also. Just want them to all get along. Do you have a mixed tank of Gourami's?


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## Termato

sonflowerjoela said:


> I love gourami's also. Just want them to all get along. Do you have a mixed tank of Gourami's?


I had a mixed tank of gouramis. They kept to themselves (I had one male in each tank). They do better if you have a female with the male, not as lonely (I have only seen female gouramis for sale online and at walmart sadly). Although that was the Powdered Dwarf Gourami. They were blue. When I tried the Sunset Gourami he was a bit more aggressive. The Dwarf species seem to keep more to themselves. If you give them enough space and only have one male they do fine. Maybe throw in a female or two for peace keeping. 

This is in the fish profiles: 
Both shy and territorial, *this fish can be maintained in a larger community aquarium with peaceful and quiet tankmates but usually not other gourami or active, boisterous fish.* Males are territorial with other males. Sometimes other brightly-coloured fish will cause this fish to become aggressive. Should be maintained in sexed pairs only.

Read more: Dwarf Gourami (Trichogaster lalius) Profile

If you are thinking about the dwarf gourami I would really read that page I just linked over really well.

I had two bright mollies in the tank with it (they were longer and about the same size and kept to themselves) and they never fought.

The reason I don't have them anymore is because I was worried for their health, my water is harder than they like it and eventually one start spazzing so I returned them. Byron had suggested to me that water that is good for mollies usually isn't good for the gouramis. Live bearers like hard water while the gouramis like soft to moderately hard water. I love those fish though, one day I will have them again .

That will be the main thing deciding your stock, what kind of water you have. I would really look at all of that information so you can see what is safe to keep in your tank without having to go out of your way to fill it up.


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## sonflowerjoela

*thank you*



Termato said:


> I had a mixed tank of gouramis. They kept to themselves (I had one male in each tank). They do better if you have a female with the male, not as lonely (I have only seen female gouramis for sale online and at walmart sadly). Although that was the Powdered Dwarf Gourami. They were blue. When I tried the Sunset Gourami he was a bit more aggressive. The Dwarf species seem to keep more to themselves. If you give them enough space and only have one male they do fine. Maybe throw in a female or two for peace keeping.
> 
> This is in the fish profiles:
> Both shy and territorial, *this fish can be maintained in a larger community aquarium with peaceful and quiet tankmates but usually not other gourami or active, boisterous fish.* Males are territorial with other males. Sometimes other brightly-coloured fish will cause this fish to become aggressive. Should be maintained in sexed pairs only.
> 
> Read more: Dwarf Gourami (Trichogaster lalius) Profile
> 
> If you are thinking about the dwarf gourami I would really read that page I just linked over really well.
> 
> I had two bright mollies in the tank with it (they were longer and about the same size and kept to themselves) and they never fought.
> 
> The reason I don't have them anymore is because I was worried for their health, my water is harder than they like it and eventually one start spazzing so I returned them. Byron had suggested to me that water that is good for mollies usually isn't good for the gouramis. Live bearers like hard water while the gouramis like soft to moderately hard water. I love those fish though, one day I will have them again .
> 
> That will be the main thing deciding your stock, what kind of water you have. I would really look at all of that information so you can see what is safe to keep in your tank without having to go out of your way to fill it up.


Thank you again. I did not know that about the dwarf gourami! I had one of those a long time ago. It was really mean. I eventually had to buy a 5 gallon tank for it to live by itself.
My water is on the hard side haven't checked it recently. I used to try to keep Discus, but could never quite get the water right. So I gave that up. I would really like a blue or 3 spot gourami and a pearl gourami but not sure it would work. I'll see once I get tank ready again.


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## Termato

sonflowerjoela said:


> Thank you again. I did not know that about the dwarf gourami! I had one of those a long time ago. It was really mean. I eventually had to buy a 5 gallon tank for it to live by itself.
> My water is on the hard side haven't checked it recently. I used to try to keep Discus, but could never quite get the water right. So I gave that up. I would really like a blue or 3 spot gourami and a pearl gourami but not sure it would work. I'll see once I get tank ready again.


No Problem. If you could post up the water parameters, hardness and all that good stuff I bet everyone else can give you some good advice on what fish to keep.

72 gallon has a lot of space so I bet you have a variety of options.


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## sonflowerjoela

Termato said:


> No Problem. If you could post up the water parameters, hardness and all that good stuff I bet everyone else can give you some good advice on what fish to keep.
> 
> 72 gallon has a lot of space so I bet you have a variety of options.


 
I will check water parameters tonight when I get home. I'm hoping for lots of options with the size of tank also.


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## Termato

sonflowerjoela said:


> I will check water parameters tonight when I get home. I'm hoping for lots of options with the size of tank also.


You said you were moving. You are going to move first and then restock right?


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## sonflowerjoela

Termato said:


> You said you were moving. You are going to move first and then restock right?



No I'm not moving. I'm going to restock the tank when I find a home for the silver dollar.


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## Termato

sonflowerjoela said:


> No I'm not moving. I'm going to restock the tank when I find a home for the silver dollar.


Oh hahaha wow I really misread that one.


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## Hanky

Welcome, with that size tank you have many options. I finally had to stop taking in others "unwanted " fish also, I feel bad but I wont risk losing the ones I have, and I wish there was a law against carnivals and fairs giving away pets as prizes, I cant tell you how many goldfish I've ended up with over the years


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## sonflowerjoela

thats a bummer! I like goldfish but don't want them in a tank anymore.


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## sonflowerjoela

*water tests*



sonflowerjoela said:


> I will check water parameters tonight when I get home. I'm hoping for lots of options with the size of tank also.



You probably are not going to believe this but I don't have the kit I need to check my water parameters.
I use to raise angel fish and I had 2 pairs. I had lots of tanks 2 30's, a 55, a 10 and a 5. I got tired of raising the fish and sold the pairs and the tanks. I ended up having the 55 and the 72 and 18 gal I forgot. Someone at work wanted to buy the 55 so I sold it and gave them boxes of supplies I had and my water kits were in the box:shock:. I will have to get new ones. I was going to sell my last 2 tanks also and then just really could not part with the 72. I was just ill about the silver dollars killing my other fish. Now that I have just one left. I suddenly got the urge to start tank over. I plan to go Saturday and get a school of tetras and will get my water kit then.


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## sonflowerjoela

Is there a particular test kit anyone thinks is the best???


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## willow

API is what i use,i find it more reliable than the test strips.


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## Termato

sonflowerjoela said:


> Is there a particular test kit anyone thinks is the best???


API Master Test Kit. (Make sure it has an expiration date on it, old pet stores sometimes have them on shelves for years and they aren't as accurate. Sometimes they restock returned expired stuff...depending on how horrifying your petstore is.)

Ranges from $28 to $35 depending on where you go. You can get it for like $20-$25 off of amazon.com.


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## sonflowerjoela

Termato said:


> API Master Test Kit. (Make sure it has an expiration date on it, old pet stores sometimes have them on shelves for years and they aren't as accurate. Sometimes they restock returned expired stuff...depending on how horrifying your petstore is.)
> 
> Ranges from $28 to $35 depending on where you go. You can get it for like $20-$25 off of amazon.com.



Do you use drsfosterandsmith.com??? They have that kit for $23.99

Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit 

I may order one from there if I can't find one.


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## Termato

sonflowerjoela said:


> Do you use drsfosterandsmith.com??? They have that kit for $23.99
> 
> Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit
> 
> I may order one from there if I can't find one.


Yea that's what they have it on Amazon for.


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## sonflowerjoela

Termato said:


> API Master Test Kit. (Make sure it has an expiration date on it, old pet stores sometimes have them on shelves for years and they aren't as accurate. Sometimes they restock returned expired stuff...depending on how horrifying your petstore is.)
> 
> Ranges from $28 to $35 depending on where you go. You can get it for like $20-$25 off of amazon.com.





Termato said:


> Yea that's what they have it on Amazon for.


Yea I'm looking on that site now. I have prime so it would be free shipping oh yea!!!
Do you recommend anything for water softening?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4048
I was looking at these and wondering if they would really be worth it.
don't know parameters but we do have hard water.
thank you again for all your help!!!
J


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## Termato

sonflowerjoela said:


> Yea I'm looking on that site now. I have prime so it would be free shipping oh yea!!!
> Do you recommend anything for water softening?
> Water Softener Pillow
> I was looking at these and wondering if they would really be worth it.
> don't know parameters but we do have hard water.
> thank you again for all your help!!!
> J


The water softener will really depend on how hard your water is and what fish you have.

If they don't need it then there is no point. I would find out exactly how hard your water is either by getting a hardness tester or you can just call your local water company and they can usually just tell you. Once you have this information then you can see how your fish are doing and decide how to go about it.

Without specific measurements I wouldn't want to recommend anything.


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## sonflowerjoela

I just called them and they don't know what I'm talking about! LOL does that tell you what a little town I"m in???


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## Byron

Softening water is not easy, and requires some knowledge about the water to start with. Have a read of this article which will explain the relationships, and there are suggestions for doing this safely if it is necessary:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/water-hardness-ph-freshwater-aquarium-73276/

But I stress the "if it is necessary." This depends upon the source water numbers, and the intended fish. Some have specific requirements, some are adaptable to some extent. After you've read that article and understand the issue better, give us the numbers and the intended fish and we can discuss further.

Byron.


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## sonflowerjoela

I just ordered API kit. I will take water from take with me to fish store and see what she says about water.
Thanks again!!!


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## sonflowerjoela

I know it isn't easy I tried keeping discus for years. Went thru all kinds of stuff trying to get water right. I know my water is hard because of that. I gave up a few years back. I don't remember the parameters. I get that white crusty build up though.
I just want to keep gouramis, tetras, catfish, rainbows, clown loaches or other loaches, couple of rainbow sharks. Just a variety of pretty fish that get along.
I just ordered a water test kit. 
Thank you so much for the information. I will read the article.
J


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## sonflowerjoela

*water hardness test*

Hey I found an old water hardness test kit in my aquarium stuff. It says my hardness is 180, can that be right???? Could it be wrong because of being old??? If it is right what fish could I keep in water this hard. The kit calls it high hardness??? :-?


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> Hey I found an old water hardness test kit in my aquarium stuff. It says my hardness is 180, can that be right???? Could it be wrong because of being old??? If it is right what fish could I keep in water this hard. The kit calls it high hardness??? :-?


If that is accurate, it will be ppm (parts per million) which equates to 10 dGH which is medium hard. We should confirm this test though. Second thing is pH, presumably above 7 but that needs testing.

Livebearers will be right at home. Rift lake cichlids. Some cyprinids and characins are fine in medium hard with a slightly basic pH in the low to mid-7's, as are medium Central American cichlids, and many catfish.


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## sonflowerjoela

Thank you Byron for clearing that up. I'm taking a jar of water to fish store tomorrow when I get off from work and let them test it for me. I will also buy a new water hardness kit. The API Master Freshwater kit I ordered does not have hardness test in it. If my water is what you said does it mean I shouldn't try to keep Tetra and Gourami?


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> Thank you Byron for clearing that up. I'm taking a jar of water to fish store tomorrow when I get off from work and let them test it for me. I will also buy a new water hardness kit. The API Master Freshwater kit I ordered does not have hardness test in it. If my water is what you said does it mean I shouldn't try to keep Tetra and Gourami?


Don't buy a hardness test just yet, you may never need it. Once we know the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness, sometimes called Alkalinity) of your tap water, we will know where we stand. If the fish store wil test this, make sure you ask them for the numbers. "Medium hard" or "not bad" isn't what we want, we need to know the number.

Many of hte commonly available tetra and gourami will manage in medium hard and slightly basic pH water.


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## sonflowerjoela

*Water test*



Byron said:


> Don't buy a hardness test just yet, you may never need it. Once we know the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness, sometimes called Alkalinity) of your tap water, we will know where we stand. If the fish store wil test this, make sure you ask them for the numbers. "Medium hard" or "not bad" isn't what we want, we need to know the number.
> 
> Many of hte commonly available tetra and gourami will manage in medium hard and slightly basic pH water.


 
Ok should I just take water from my faucet or fish tank? I have cleaned it and set it up with new plants.
I also used water conditioner to remove chlorine.


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> Ok should I just take water from my faucet or fish tank? I have cleaned it and set it up with new plants.
> I also used water conditioner to remove chlorine.


Tap water straight from the tap, nothing added, is what we need to test for GH and KH.


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## BarbH

Just wanted to say hello and welcome to TFK


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## sonflowerjoela

*Water tests*



Byron said:


> Tap water straight from the tap, nothing added, is what we need to test for GH and KH.


Hey Byron I took my water to the fish store tonight and he said my water was perfect. He did not give me any exact numbers. I will have my own test kit Monday and can do everything but the hardness. So since he said water was perfect I bought 6 rummy nose tetras, 2 turquoise rainbows (a pair), and 2 clown loaches. They have been in my tank since 6:30 pm central time and seem very happy. My water is crystal clear. It is 8:13 now. I will keep a close eye on them. I'm not sure what to do about finding out the gh and kh. Any suggestions? I have kept all of the fish I bought tonight in the past and the did well.


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## sonflowerjoela

*Thank you for the welcome!*



BarbH said:


> Just wanted to say hello and welcome to TFK


Thank you so much! So glad to be here!!! :-D


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> Hey Byron I took my water to the fish store tonight and he said my water was perfect. He did not give me any exact numbers. I will have my own test kit Monday and can do everything but the hardness. So since he said water was perfect I bought 6 rummy nose tetras, 2 turquoise rainbows (a pair), and 2 clown loaches. They have been in my tank since 6:30 pm central time and seem very happy. My water is crystal clear. It is 8:13 now. I will keep a close eye on them. I'm not sure what to do about finding out the gh and kh. Any suggestions? I have kept all of the fish I bought tonight in the past and the did well.


We need the numbers, otherwise we are guessing. But assuming the previous number of 180ppm you posted is close, that is 10 dGH. What is your pH (tap water), if you have the pH test? Shake a small jar of tap water thoroughly before testing for pH, to drive out the CO2 for a more accurate pH test.


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## sonflowerjoela

Byron said:


> We need the numbers, otherwise we are guessing. But assuming the previous number of 180ppm you posted is close, that is 10 dGH. What is your pH (tap water), if you have the pH test? Shake a small jar of tap water thoroughly before testing for pH, to drive out the CO2 for a more accurate pH test.


The owner did not give numbers just said water was perfect. He did say ph was neutral. But no number. 
I was told water company could tell, you is there a specific person to ask for? The girl who answered the phone did not know what I was talking about. Or is there a specific way to ask for the hardness of water because that is what I asked. I can't tell you anymore at this time. I will have master kit tomorrow and I'm going to go ahead and order a hardness test kit. At least it will be fresh and I will be able to give correct #'s to you. I hope I'm not wearing you out. I really appreciate all of your help!!!! Those water test strips are they worth anything? I was looking at them at Wal-Mart. You just dip in water but if it does not show same color as on the box you still know nothing right?


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## sonflowerjoela

DO YOU RECOMMEND THE API GH& KH TEST KIT?
GH & KH Test Kit - API


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> DO YOU RECOMMEND THE API GH& KH TEST KIT?
> GH & KH Test Kit - API


API test kits are reliable. But before you waste money on a hardness kit that you may use only the once and never again, let's try to find this out from the water folks. Do they have a website? Water data may be posted if they do. If you find it, post the link and I can take a look.

Test strips are sometimes reliable, but not always, so liquid tests are better. The API pH liquid test kit is good, as is there ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. You can get these 4 tests in their Master combination for less than buying each individually.

Once we have the pH for the tap water (remember to shake the water vigorously before testing) we will know more with or without the GH and KH.


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## sonflowerjoela

*water data*



Byron said:


> API test kits are reliable. But before you waste money on a hardness kit that you may use only the once and never again, let's try to find this out from the water folks. Do they have a website? Water data may be posted if they do. If you find it, post the link and I can take a look.
> 
> Test strips are sometimes reliable, but not always, so liquid tests are better. The API pH liquid test kit is good, as is there ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. You can get these 4 tests in their Master combination for less than buying each individually.
> 
> Once we have the pH for the tap water (remember to shake the water vigorously before testing) we will know more with or without the GH and KH.


Thank you again I will get master kit tomorrow.
http://www.munford.com/files/CCR.jpg

I found this on website. See if it tells you what you need to know.
I'm going to read through it also.
I so appreciate your help!!! 
All of the fish I got Friday night are still doing well.


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> Thank you again I will get master kit tomorrow.
> http://www.munford.com/files/CCR.jpg
> 
> I found this on website. See if it tells you what you need to know.
> I'm going to read through it also.
> I so appreciate your help!!!
> All of the fish I got Friday night are still doing well.


No help from that unfortunately, it is only concerned with contaminants. Let us know the pH when you test it, we'll go from there.


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## sonflowerjoela

Byron said:


> No help from that unfortunately, it is only concerned with contaminants. Let us know the pH when you test it, we'll go from there.


Hey Byron,
I emailed the company that my hardness test kit was from, they said it did not have an expiration date.
I just did a hardness test on tap water and it came back 60ppm. I had been testing fish tank water not sure if that makes a difference. I also just retested fish tank water and it was 120ppm. Why do you think it tests tank water different? Anyway I will let you know what all the other tests say tonight. I should get master kit in mail today.
J


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> Hey Byron,
> I emailed the company that my hardness test kit was from, they said it did not have an expiration date.
> I just did a hardness test on tap water and it came back 60ppm. I had been testing fish tank water not sure if that makes a difference. I also just retested fish tank water and it was 120ppm. Why do you think it tests tank water different? Anyway I will let you know what all the other tests say tonight. I should get master kit in mail today.
> J


If the tank water is that much harder, there is something calcareous in the tank that is raising hardness by dissolving calcium and/or magnesium into the water. So let's look at your gravel/sand and rock, if any.

What type of substrate do you have? And are there any rocks in the tank?

BTW, the tap water at 60 ppm is very soft, equating to 3.3 dGH. The calcareous whatever in the tank is good in this instance, but we should track it down so we will have some idea of where it may go over time. Currently it seems to be raising the GH from 3 to almost 7, which is fine if that is the limit.


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## sonflowerjoela

Byron said:


> If the tank water is that much harder, there is something calcareous in the tank that is raising hardness by dissolving calcium and/or magnesium into the water. So let's look at your gravel/sand and rock, if any.
> 
> What type of substrate do you have? And are there any rocks in the tank?
> 
> BTW, the tap water at 60 ppm is very soft, equating to 3.3 dGH. The calcareous whatever in the tank is good in this instance, but we should track it down so we will have some idea of where it may go over time. Currently it seems to be raising the GH from 3 to almost 7, which is fine if that is the limit.


 
I'm not sure what the name of gravel is, but it is smooth gravel, I bought from fish store, in natural color. I have 3 pieces of wood in there one is on a marble base and the other 2 are slate stone bases.
There is a small amount of sand under the gravel. I previously had tried live plants that is why I put sand in there. There is one rock in the tank I don't know what is but it came from fish store with a live plant growing on it. Other than that it is plastic plants.

I did talk to a man at water department this morning and he said they do not test for water hardness because our water is not hard. He said ph from tap would be 7.1-7.3


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> I'm not sure what the name of gravel is, but it is smooth gravel, I bought from fish store, in natural color. I have 3 pieces of wood in there one is on a marble base and the other 2 are slate stone bases.
> There is a small amount of sand under the gravel. I previously had tried live plants that is why I put sand in there. There is one rock in the tank I don't know what is but it came from fish store with a live plant growing on it. Other than that it is plastic plants.
> 
> I did talk to a man at water department this morning and he said they do not test for water hardness because our water is not hard. He said ph from tap would be 7.1-7.3


His advice is making sense with your numbers, so we'll accept that and move on.

Marble is calcareous. The unknown rock might be. Slate is inert, and I'm not sure about the gravel without knowing what it is [suppose you don't have the bag?]. 

As you now have the hardness kit, I would just peridically measure the hardness [each week before the water change] to see if it changes. Having a GH of 6-7 is good with soft water fish and plants, I maintain this.


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## sonflowerjoela

I don't have the bag. I bought it 12 years ago LOL I will call the fish store and see if they can tell me what kind.
The hardness kit is the old one like maybe even 12 years, that is how long I have had this tank. Do you think I can trust this kit?


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> I don't have the bag. I bought it 12 years ago LOL I will call the fish store and see if they can tell me what kind.
> The hardness kit is the old one like maybe even 12 years, that is how long I have had this tank. Do you think I can trust this kit?


I doubt it. Most test kits do have an expiry, the regents are simply not effective after a period of time. Course, the chemicals in the hardness kit might be differnet, no idea. If it gives the same result as a reliable test, I would be more inclined to use it and trust it; thatès why it is unfortunate the store did not give you the number they had. 

For example, I had a pH kit that was maybe 10 years old, well past the expiry. I used it alongside a brand new kit several times on different tanks over a couple weeks, and they always read identical, so I continued using the old one until it was gone, which was not long anyhow.


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## sonflowerjoela

Ok got the test kit:
ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Nirtrates: 40ppm
PH: 7.4 on high range and 7.6 on ph
So what are the possibilities???


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> Ok got the test kit:
> ammonia: 0ppm
> Nitrite:0ppm
> Nirtrates: 40ppm
> PH: 7.4 on high range and 7.6 on ph
> So what are the possibilities???


First on the nitrates, that seems high but probably isn't. This is the API kit, so Regent #2 has to be shaken well for 2 minutes. I believe the instructions say 30 seconds [mine do] and this can cause a faulty and usually high reading. Retest nitrate (shaking #2 for 2 minutes) and see.

On fish, those you listed in post #28 should be fine. You have soft water, and the pH will acidify as the tank matures. How much and how fast I can't say, every tank is different, and that depends upon the KH (Alkalinity) which we don't know. It has no effect on fish whatsoever, but it does act as a buffer on pH. When you've decided on specific species, post. Most will manage now, and as the water acidifies even better.


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## sonflowerjoela

Byron said:


> First on the nitrates, that seems high but probably isn't. This is the API kit, so Regent #2 has to be shaken well for 2 minutes. I believe the instructions say 30 seconds [mine do] and this can cause a faulty and usually high reading. Retest nitrate (shaking #2 for 2 minutes) and see.
> 
> On fish, those you listed in post #28 should be fine. You have soft water, and the pH will acidify as the tank matures. How much and how fast I can't say, every tank is different, and that depends upon the KH (Alkalinity) which we don't know. It has no effect on fish whatsoever, but it does act as a buffer on pH. When you've decided on specific species, post. Most will manage now, and as the water acidifies even better.


Thank you Byron. I'm going to clean tank again tonight.I plan on doing 25% at least once a week. I will re-test afterwards. I'd really like more tetras and rainbows. I'm not so sure about clown loaches now, the profile says they get to 12 inches, and need 6 foot aquarium, and are happiest in group of 5 or 6. I only got two and have a 72 gallon tank, would they be ok if I only get 1 more of them? Also wanted to add that I have a million or more snails from when I tried doing the live plants thing. Owner of LFS said they eat snails
Also would like to know what you think of 1 angelfish and a pearl gourami in tank?

I'll post test results once I've cleaned the tank tonight?
J


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> Thank you Byron. I'm going to clean tank again tonight.I plan on doing 25% at least once a week. I will re-test afterwards. I'd really like more tetras and rainbows. I'm not so sure about clown loaches now, the profile says they get to 12 inches, and need 6 foot aquarium, and are happiest in group of 5 or 6. I only got two and have a 72 gallon tank, would they be ok if I only get 1 more of them? Also wanted to add that I have a million or more snails from when I tried doing the live plants thing. Owner of LFS said they eat snails
> Also would like to know what you think of 1 angelfish and a pearl gourami in tank?
> 
> I'll post test results once I've cleaned the tank tonight?
> J


Loaches are highly social fish. Groups are mandatory if they are to be "happy" and that equates to healthy. I would say no less than 5, and while five 2-inch clowns will manage in a 4-foot tank for a time, they must have the space soon to develop properly. If you don't have a 6-foot tank now, I would return the two rather than get more on the off-chance a larger suitable tank may be in the future. There are some smaller species, attaining 4-5 inches max, and a group of five or six in a 4-foot tank can be entertaining. I have a group of Botia kubotai in my 90g, and they are a constant source of interest. They must have lots of wood chunks with caves or tunnels, and more than their number; they like to select their own individual "home." This applies to all loaches. There are also a coule of "dwarf" species, in the profiles.

As for snails, depends upon type. Loaches in general like snails, some species more than others. Never buy fish to deal with a "problem" if this is what you consider snails. I view snails as an essential part of a healthy environment. They get into places we never could, especially the small ones like Malaysian Livebearing that burrow through the substrate doing all sorts of good things. Pond snails are another good snail. I have hundreds of the MLS in my tanks.

Angelfish are also shoaling fish; a group of 5+ in a 4-foot or larger tank. Or a mated pair if breeding is your intention in a smaller (30g and up) tank. More in our profile.

Gourami should not be combined with angelfish; males of both are territorial. A group of a gourami species consisting of one male and 2-3 females will usually work in a 4-foot tank. A single gourami is fine, provided tankmates are suitable. Some tetra, danio and barb will nip gourami and angelfish fins mercilessly.


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## Termato

Byron said:


> Loaches are highly social fish. Groups are mandatory if they are to be "happy" and that equates to healthy. I would say no less than 5, and while five 2-inch clowns will manage in a 4-foot tank for a time, they must have the space soon to develop properly. If you don't have a 6-foot tank now, I would return the two rather than get more on the off-chance a larger suitable tank may be in the future. There are some smaller species, attaining 4-5 inches max, and a group of five or six in a 4-foot tank can be entertaining. I have a group of Botia kubotai in my 90g, and they are a constant source of interest. They must have lots of wood chunks with caves or tunnels, and more than their number; they like to select their own individual "home." This applies to all loaches. There are also a coule of "dwarf" species, in the profiles.
> 
> As for snails, depends upon type. Loaches in general like snails, some species more than others. Never buy fish to deal with a "problem" if this is what you consider snails. I view snails as an essential part of a healthy environment. They get into places we never could, especially the small ones like Malaysian Livebearing that burrow through the substrate doing all sorts of good things. Pond snails are another good snail. I have hundreds of the MLS in my tanks.
> 
> Angelfish are also shoaling fish; a group of 5+ in a 4-foot or larger tank. Or a mated pair if breeding is your intention in a smaller (30g and up) tank. More in our profile.
> 
> Gourami should not be combined with angelfish; males of both are territorial. A group of a gourami species consisting of one male and 2-3 females will usually work in a 4-foot tank. A single gourami is fine, provided tankmates are suitable. Some tetra, danio and barb will nip gourami and angelfish fins mercilessly.


I didn't even know they had Dwarf Loachs...1.5-2.5 inches that's more doable for a smaller tank  If I wasn't having stocking issues I'd consider some myself.


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## sonflowerjoela

Byron said:


> Loaches are highly social fish. Groups are mandatory if they are to be "happy" and that equates to healthy. I would say no less than 5, and while five 2-inch clowns will manage in a 4-foot tank for a time, they must have the space soon to develop properly. If you don't have a 6-foot tank now, I would return the two rather than get more on the off-chance a larger suitable tank may be in the future. There are some smaller species, attaining 4-5 inches max, and a group of five or six in a 4-foot tank can be entertaining. I have a group of Botia kubotai in my 90g, and they are a constant source of interest. They must have lots of wood chunks with caves or tunnels, and more than their number; they like to select their own individual "home." This applies to all loaches. There are also a coule of "dwarf" species, in the profiles.
> 
> As for snails, depends upon type. Loaches in general like snails, some species more than others. Never buy fish to deal with a "problem" if this is what you consider snails. I view snails as an essential part of a healthy environment. They get into places we never could, especially the small ones like Malaysian Livebearing that burrow through the substrate doing all sorts of good things. Pond snails are another good snail. I have hundreds of the MLS in my tanks.
> 
> Angelfish are also shoaling fish; a group of 5+ in a 4-foot or larger tank. Or a mated pair if breeding is your intention in a smaller (30g and up) tank. More in our profile.
> 
> Gourami should not be combined with angelfish; males of both are territorial. A group of a gourami species consisting of one male and 2-3 females will usually work in a 4-foot tank. A single gourami is fine, provided tankmates are suitable. Some tetra, danio and barb will nip gourami and angelfish fins mercilessly.


Ok thanks for info. I'm not sure what kind of snails they are they came from live plants. I will see if I can find out what they are. If they are good I will just let them be.
I will find out if I can return the clown loaches. I love Botia kubotai you linked to, they are too cute. 
I will have to do more research on other fish. I don't want to breed angels, been there done that. I just think they are pretty and don't want the disruption of a possible pair. I will look into gouramis.
Thank you again!!!!


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## sonflowerjoela

*snails I have*

this is what the snails I have look like. But they shells are the grey color like in other photo.


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## sonflowerjoela

Here is a picture of the snails in my tank.


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## Byron

Those are the really great helpers, keep 'em.:-D

Melanoides tuberculata or Malaysian Livebearing (or Trumpet) Snails, burrow throughout the substrate like nothing else can. Great at breaking down organics (waste) into smaller bits more easily handled by the bacteria, and preventing compaction of the substrate.

I have so many hundreds of these I couldn't begin to count them. I'm happy to see them.

On the various fish, remember our profiles, most of the commonly-available fish are included.


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## sonflowerjoela

Byron said:


> Those are the really great helpers, keep 'em.:-D
> 
> Melanoides tuberculata or Malaysian Livebearing (or Trumpet) Snails, burrow throughout the substrate like nothing else can. Great at breaking down organics (waste) into smaller bits more easily handled by the bacteria, and preventing compaction of the substrate.
> 
> I have so many hundreds of these I couldn't begin to count them. I'm happy to see them.
> 
> On the various fish, remember our profiles, most of the commonly-available fish are included.


 
Thank you Byron!!!!:-D I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of your help.
I'll try to stop wearing you out now! :lol:
Have a great day!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sonflowerjoela

*Gh & kh*

Ok, I caved and bought the API GH & KH kit. I just had to know for sure. I just don't understand for sure what results are: on GH I had to use 5 drops before water turned from orange to green so is that 89.5 ppm? The KH was was 4 drops to turn from blue to yellow so that is 71.6. So what does that mean. This was tested from my tap water not my tank. 
Thanks
J

went back and read article referred to in earlier post so think it means my water is 4 - 8 dGH 70 - 140 ppm soft
Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...s-ph-freshwater-aquarium-73276/#ixzz1pzBrdems

am I right?
​


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## sonflowerjoela

*25% Water change*

I cleaned tank and water parameters are:
Ph 7.6 tap, 7.6 tank, high range 7.4 tank
Nitrates 40 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrites 0 ppm
4 - 8 dGH 70 - 140 ppm 


So in light of all that and the gh & kh in previous post what would my best choices for fish be?
I want peaceful fish with no fighting and tormenting each other.
I currently have 6 rummy nose and 1 pair of turquoise rainbows
also 2 clown loaches, but I will return them for something else tomorrow because they need to be in a group of at least 6 and they grow to be 12 inches long which is way to big for my 72 gallon tank. Any and all suggestions appreciated.


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## Byron

To answer your question in post #60, yes, you are correct, you have soft water. The low KH means it is slightly buffered, so the pH should shift more easily as the tank matures, becoming slightly acidic.

To post #61, soft water fish will do well. If you like the rummynose, get more; a group of no less than 15 is best, even up to 20 in your case--this is a fish that needs larger groups to be secure, and given its schooling/shoaling behaviour, remaining in a group almost continually, it is a lovely fish in a 4-foot tank well planted.

The rainbow _Melanotaenia lacustris_ is a bit of a problem. This fish is not in our profiles, but here is some info from which you will see it does not do that well in soft, acidic water:
Lake Kutubu Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia lacustris) - Seriously Fish

It would probably be OK at present, the GH is a tad under where it should be, but the pH is fine. But as i suspect the pH will gradually lower--and it would certainly be better for the rummynose if it does, as low as it can go won't hurt them--you might want to rethink this combo.

Adding other fish will obviously depend upon your decision above.


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## sonflowerjoela

Byron said:


> To answer your question in post #60, yes, you are correct, you have soft water. The low KH means it is slightly buffered, so the pH should shift more easily as the tank matures, becoming slightly acidic.
> 
> To post #61, soft water fish will do well. If you like the rummynose, get more; a group of no less than 15 is best, even up to 20 in your case--this is a fish that needs larger groups to be secure, and given its schooling/shoaling behaviour, remaining in a group almost continually, it is a lovely fish in a 4-foot tank well planted.
> 
> The rainbow _Melanotaenia lacustris_ is a bit of a problem. This fish is not in our profiles, but here is some info from which you will see it does not do that well in soft, acidic water:
> Lake Kutubu Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia lacustris) - Seriously Fish
> 
> It would probably be OK at present, the GH is a tad under where it should be, but the pH is fine. But as i suspect the pH will gradually lower--and it would certainly be better for the rummynose if it does, as low as it can go won't hurt them--you might want to rethink this combo.
> 
> Adding other fish will obviously depend upon your decision above.


I messed up then. At the LFS they have all these fish together in one tank. I went today and got boeseman rainbow pair and 2 redline sharks. I got these because they are all living together in one tank at store and have been for years. They even have electric blue jack demseys, rams, congo tetras, rummys, algae eaters, redline sharks, all of the different rainbowfish, something else I'm not sure what is. I hope mine works out. I do intend to add to the rummy collection I'd love 15 or 20 maybe more. If all these don't do well I will just stick with rummys. I was going to get some corys but they are always out of them. I guess they go fast. I guess I will not get anything else for awhile to make sure how these are going to do. I had a pair of the Lake Kutubu rainbowfish before and they did well until my heater over heated while I was on vacation. I lost all my fish then.

I did find out that my gravel is Estes Spectra Stone Gravel.

Also I don't have live plants, I have artificial ones.


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## Byron

sonflowerjoela said:


> I messed up then. At the LFS they have all these fish together in one tank. I went today and got boeseman rainbow pair and 2 redline sharks. I got these because they are all living together in one tank at store and have been for years. They even have electric blue jack demseys, rams, congo tetras, rummys, algae eaters, redline sharks, all of the different rainbowfish, something else I'm not sure what is. I hope mine works out. I do intend to add to the rummy collection I'd love 15 or 20 maybe more. If all these don't do well I will just stick with rummys. I was going to get some corys but they are always out of them. I guess they go fast. I guess I will not get anything else for awhile to make sure how these are going to do. I had a pair of the Lake Kutubu rainbowfish before and they did well until my heater over heated while I was on vacation. I lost all my fish then.
> 
> I did find out that my gravel is Estes Spectra Stone Gravel.
> 
> Also I don't have live plants, I have artificial ones.


First off, the tanks in any fish store should never be taken as "correct." Things are very different in fish stores from a home aquarium (or should be:shock. Fish in store tanks are usually under stress, and as I have written many times in various threads, this can sometimes increase aggression but often it is the opposite. Put the fish in a good environment suited to it, and if it is healthy it will settle down and its true behaviours will likely flower.

Second point on store tanks is that most adjust their water to be sort of in the middle, thus they can keep (for the short period it takes to sell them) fish with differing needs in much the same water. The fish may be lacking in colour, or again stressed a bit, but here too they will return to their natural colouration once they settle in a good environment.

The Boeseman Rainbowfish is in our profiles, click the name for the data; it needs a couple more. And the Roseline Shark is also in our profiles under the common name Denisons Barb or Puntius denisonii and it too needs a group, it gets 6 inches and will likely eat rummys, and it needs a larger tank. All as noted in the profile. Your tank cannot support both species in adequate stocking numbers, plus there is the predator issue with any smaller fish.

I really cannot stress enough the value of thorough research before acquiring fish. I have learned this lesson the hard way, by losing fish or having to even destory some to keep peace. I now have two maxims that I never allow myself to ignore in a fish store: 1, I never buy any fish I do not know about; if I see something new, I note the scientific name and come home and research it, then decide to buy or not. And 2, I never buy any fish that will not, at full mature size, be perfectly right for my existing tank; this way I never have to worry about larger tanks down the road.


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