# Fin Rot?



## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

My tank's cycle just finished and the water readings were perfect. So yesterday I went to the store and got 3 new fish and a couple more live plants. Last night I noticed one of my guppies was dead. When I looked at him, everything looked normal, so I tested the water again and it was still at 7.8 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 5 nitrate. I just figured maybe he was old. I noticed this morning that one of my other guppies tail was split, and then looking at some of the others, I noticed other fishes tails either splitting or frayed looking. I just took out the guppy, I could tell he was about to go any minute, but I don't want any of the others to die. I just did about a 25-30% water change. What else can I do?


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

Also, I just fed them, and the small blue danio whose fin is split is not eating. Please if anyone has any idea what to do, post ASAP.


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I would add melafix, or some other antibacterial medication into the water. The split fins may be infected.


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok, I went to the store today and got some melafix. I'll add that over the next week and then do a water change and see how things go.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I've had a lot of success treating fin rot with a combination of Melafix and Pimafix. It's safe to use both medications at once. The Pimafix is the "active ingredient" for treating the infection, while the Melafix helps heal the damaged fins.


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

It seems like I've been having problems with fin rot and I can't seem to get rid of it. I will have 1 fish who is looking sick, then it will die and I'll take him out and a few days later another will have the symptoms. The guppy who died today had perfect fins, but the 2 or 3 before him had tail fins that were split or disinigrating. I went to the store a couple weeks ago and got some Melafix and put the right amount in my tank, and I would add more every couple days. Since this didn't seem to be doing the trick I bought some Pimafix also and used a combination of the 2, but it still doesn't seem to be working. I just tested the water and it was fine, 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 5 Nitrate. The water is a little cloudy (probably due to the medicine I've been putting in, and I'm about to do a 25% water change. I haven't had any charcoal filter in there for a couple weeks because the medicine says to take it out. 

I'm wondering if I should do the water change and put in the filter and see what happens or if I should keep the filter out and maybe just use more medicine. Has anyone else had a problem like this? Any ideas what I should do?


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

From my experience, melafix doesn't work. I know some people have great luck with it, but it hasn't EVER worked for me. It did gunk up my water too. I have had great luck with Fungus Clear (treats both fungal and bacterial infections) by Jungle Labs. I have used it many times with success and quick recovery times.


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm not sure what else to try - I've done 2 cycles of the melafix, one by itself, then one with pimafix also. I tried using the tabs, and everything seemed well for a few days after the water change, but now I see some different fish with fins slowly disappearing. Any other ideas of what I can do????


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

What test kit did you use?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Are you cetain that you are dealing with fin rot? Some male guppys especially fancy guppys will nip the fins of other fancy tails.Did you quarantine new fish you added after tank cycled? 
Is it possible to post picture of affected fish? 
Were it me (and it aint) I would do 50 percent water change and put charcoal filters back in and leave them. When you removed them you no doubt also removed the beneficial bacteria that had just developed. Stop dumping meds in the tank and let it be.If fish survive ,,fine ,if not resist the urge to add chemicals. Purchase Small fish like guppys ,or bloodfin tetras, or pristilla tetras five or six ,,thats all. Let these five or six fish reside in the tank for ten to fourteen days with NO more additions. Purchase these fish from somewhere other than where you have been getting fish. Feed these five or six SMALL fish once a day for the fourteen days. Then maybe purchase no more than TWO more small fish maybe, cory's (more can be added later.) leave these fish in the tank for ten to fourteen days and continue to feed once a day SMALL amount. Do test the water after a couple weeks with API freswater master kit. And let us know where you are at. DON"T remove or clean the filters during this time and feed as instructed SMALL amounts and you will be on your way to re-establishing the beneficial bacteria that was destroyed when you removed the filters to dump meds in. Your tank ,if parameters posted were correct had just finished the nitrogen cycle and was in my view,,, too newly matured to remove the filters thus placing your fish in danger of ammonia,and or nitrites.;-)


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

I was under the impression that the beneficial bacteria mostly grows on the permanent filter that I always leave in? I'm using the API master kit to test the water. I'll test again later today and post the levels.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I went back through your threads to try and find a description or photo of the filter you have and did see such a photo. If your filter has the black pad as well as the carbon cartridge then you may still have some beneficial bacteria remaining but by removing the carbon cartridge you also removed much of the good bacteria that had just recently allowed you to add fish Slowly,,,one or two per week in such a young tank. If your ammonia, nitrite and nitrAte levels are still within safe range then I would still put the carbon back in to remove medications and I would monitor the fish, feed sparingly, not add any more fish for the next ten days. If fish die, I would not replace them , IF there is some sort of pathogen,bacterial, fungicidal etc you will not want it to affect new fish. Few parasites or other pathogens can survive for more than ten days without a host(fish).If fish do indeed die,, I would wait the ten days so as to allow the pathogen to die off. And then do as described earlier. I am not a fan of medicating tanks as you may have surmised . Perhaps others may have other suggestions. I can only relate what I would do in similar situation. I hope your water tests produce favorable results.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Pardon me but I felt the need to elaborate .
Most medications require seven to ten days of treatment. I prefer not to spend money on medicating fish but rather strive to maintain the water quality so the fishes immune system has a chance to naturally combat a particular disease or ailment. In a tank that is new such as yours, I would not want to introduce fish only to have to medicate them. As stated,, if the fish die, (it happens) I would rather wait another ten days after that and begin over with five or six SMALL fish such as I described and wait ten days before adding no more than one or two more small fish,, wait another ten days and so on,, Feed them SMALL amounts once a day so as not to contribute to uncomfortable or lethal levels of ammonia. In this way your tank will mature naturally without lethal levels of ammonia, or frequent water changes unless ammonia rises to lethal or dangerous levels which would be a sign of possible overfeeding. For feedings ,I would take a pinch of flake food and put it in the palm of my hand and crush it into powder about dime size. I would then sprinkle half of that on the water and watch to see that it is eaten. If it is all eaten, I would sprinkle a little more and no more until the following day. If you don't over feed, use SMALL fish such as described earlier, Don't disturb the filter, Do'nt stock too many or too large of fish , you will have few problems. 
Others are quick sometimes to recommend all manner of medications to treat fish and I believe they truly care for the fish. But it is beyond most of us (myself included) to diagnose properly or accurately any particular pathogen or bacteria that may be present. It is always easier to maintain the water than it is to treat sick fish. I would not continue to purchase fish from a place where fish became ill once they were introduced to my aquarium. By maintaining the water quality you can be certain or nearly so,, that it's not the enviornment you are providing that is contributing to the problem .:shock:


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

ok, I just tested the water - nitrite, ammonia both 0, nitrate 10ppm, ph 7.8
I took a few pictures so you can see what I'm talking about.
This first is the most sickly looking fish. A smaller zebra danio whose bottom half of his tail fin is almost totally gone. He's gotten kind of scrawny looking and isn't eating as much.







The next one is a red danio and guppy swimming past each other. The top left, you can see the red danio's tail missing part of the bottom. You can also see the guppy's tail that is having problems.







The last is the guppy. He has a split tail, both the top and bottom were long and flowy, but now the flowy parts have gotten smaller and it's almost like the shape of a normal guppy tail.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm pleased that your water parameters are in order. I have seen danios and other fish that suffer from skinny disease or wasting disease that looked like the photos you posted and given that your water appears to not be a factor,(good thing) I would, were it me,, (and it ain't) remove the danios and continue monitoring the fish while performing proper maint. The danios in my observations are usually not long for this world when they appear like the photos you posted. I am no expert on diseases and you may decide to try medicating but I cannot speak to that for as stated... I remove sickly fish so as to try and keep other fish from becoming ill as well. If there is a pathogen or bacterial or fungicidal infection loose and .. were it me ..(and it aint) I would do as i described. Remove sickly fish even if it meant all, (hopefully not) and watch the fish. If they all perish,, I would start over with SMALL fish as described from a different source. Many fish today are not as healthy from the get go as they were just a few years ago due to all manner of hormone treatments, antibiotics,and poor care by breeders who import less than quality stock. If you end up starting over ,, and wait the ten days after all fish have died or been removed,, your tank may have to go through the nitrogen cycle again but,,, If you do like i described you should have few problems. You will be adding SMALL fish Slowly while not overfeeding and that should keep ammonia and nitrites from becoming lethal. It is, after all your tank. I am only suggesting what I would do were it me.


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

good ideas - one problem i have now is that I don't have another tank to put sick fish in. Maybe I can look around for a cheap 10 gallon or something. So for now, they will stay in the tank with the others, unless I should just take them out and kill the ones who look bad (like the danio above). What in your opinion is the most humane way to kill a pet fish?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

You can use a rubbermaid tub for sick tank but it would need a small sponge filter and heater to keep the fish comfortable. I think you could find sponge filter at petco, petsmart,etc. rubbermaid tubs are inexpensive at most walmarts or hardware stores. If you keep a small sponge filter going in your maintank you would always have a supply of beneficial bacteria to enable you to make a small hospital tank or quarantine tank immediately safe for fish after it has been in your main tank for a month. I am perhaps not the best person to ask about most humane way to dispose of fish but ,, I believe the quickest way to ease the suffering or to dispose of fish is to QUICKLY cut off the head.


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

I am so frustrated at this point and have no idea what is wrong with my tank. I just tested the water - Nitrate 15ppm, Nitrite and Ammonia 0, pH 7.8. Last night when I got home from work, I had 3 dead danios. A few days ago the sick guppy took a turn for the worst and died. The past few days they were looking not so healthy, much like the the danio in the previous pictures. One of them got really fat- hadn't seen that before. Right now my blue danio is looking kind of unhealthy, and I saw him throw up the other day, another thing I've never seen. He had been fed flakes a few hours earlier, but he was just swimming and threw up some white stuff. At this point I suppose I'll take 1077's advice and not medicate the water even though I had some good results in the past. After I medicate then do a water change within about a week the symptoms come back. It seems like if I just continually medicate the tank it would be fine, but I don't think that's a good idea. 

It seems like the pnly fish that are getting sick are danios and guppies - I can't remember losing any other kinds of fish. Are these fish less hardy than others? Is my ph (7.8) too high. Is my hard water not good? I have no more ideas of what could be causing this. 

Unless someone else has any great ideas I'll just continue to maintain the tank and let the sick ones die, then try to repopulate once no fish get sick for a couple weeks.


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## kyfishman (Oct 21, 2008)

1077 said:


> Are you cetain that you are dealing with fin rot? Some male guppys especially fancy guppys will nip the fins of other fancy tails.Did you quarantine new fish you added after tank cycled?
> Is it possible to post picture of affected fish?
> Were it me (and it aint) I would do 50 percent water change and put charcoal filters back in and leave them. When you removed them you no doubt also removed the beneficial bacteria that had just developed. Stop dumping meds in the tank and let it be.If fish survive ,,fine ,if not resist the urge to add chemicals. Purchase Small fish like guppys ,or bloodfin tetras, or pristilla tetras five or six ,,thats all. Let these five or six fish reside in the tank for ten to fourteen days with NO more additions. Purchase these fish from somewhere other than where you have been getting fish. Feed these five or six SMALL fish once a day for the fourteen days. Then maybe purchase no more than TWO more small fish maybe, cory's (more can be added later.) leave these fish in the tank for ten to fourteen days and continue to feed once a day SMALL amount. Do test the water after a couple weeks with API freswater master kit. And let us know where you are at. DON"T remove or clean the filters during this time and feed as instructed SMALL amounts and you will be on your way to re-establishing the beneficial bacteria that was destroyed when you removed the filters to dump meds in. Your tank ,if parameters posted were correct had just finished the nitrogen cycle and was in my view,,, too newly matured to remove the filters thus placing your fish in danger of ammonia,and or nitrites.;-)


 
The more I read and the more I learn I am starting to agree with 1077 here. 


Chlorine... test your levels of chlorine. Zebra Danio are very hardy fish but no fish is gonna stand up to chlorine. (I know I am reaching here but if you have not yet, I'd test for it) Your local fish shop should test that for you for free. 

As a novice aquarist, I feel your pain... slow and steady will win this race.


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

The only thing I have to test for chlorine are the testing strips. I thought that might be it also so I tested that earlier and it said 0 chlorine. Any other ideas?


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## kyfishman (Oct 21, 2008)

Oxygen depletion? Medicine will cause this.. Do you have a bubbler? Do any of the fish have sluggish behavior? do you notice any of them hanging out at the top of the tank nipping at the surface like a carp? 
I'd do water changes every other day 25% until my fish start to look good. I recently added an extra carbon bag and biobag to my tank to work on beefing up on my "clean tank water" goals. 
I don't have anything better to suggest other than taking 1077's advice and taking out sick looking fish right way. 

Again, it is another reach with the oxygen thing but I'll toss it out there just in case.


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

I do notice the sick one's seem to stay at the top like a carp. I don't have a bubbler, just the water filter- I figured the water pouring in from the filter will give the tank adequate oxygen. 

If it is oxygen depletion, what might be causing it? I have a carbon filter in my filter and I can see air bubbles caused from the water dropping in from the filter. I also have some live plants, I figured they would be helping with the oxygen as well? I don't have time today, but I am planning on a 25% water change tomorrow.

Thanks for the help!


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## el Mattador (Nov 19, 2008)

Also, I thought I should add. It has been about 2 or 3 weeks since I've used medicine, and after I finished with the medicine I did a 25% water change. I can't remember if I've done another one since then, but I plan on it tomorrow.


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## kyfishman (Oct 21, 2008)

I hope by now things are much better for your tank. If not this post will bump this thread up for some more advice.


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