# nursery tank? raising fry??



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey! Been reading a lot of the posts on your forums and have picked up so much new info my brain is starting to hurt. So i decided this was a good place to ask for some advice.

So 1 of my mollies has had fry and i am totally unprepared as i didnt realise she was quite that close to giving birth. I rushed out the next morning as she gave birth during the night, she also died afterwards , to buy a little breeder cage thing to rescue the fry before they all got munched and i managed to rescue 5 of them after turning everything upside down trying to find the little things! The problem is that i dont really have a clue about raising fry... Ive ordered a small tank, a heater, a sponge filter, fry powdered food and live baby shrimp all for a new nursery tank. What else do you suggest i get and how do you suggest i go about raising them? Also the tank doesn't have a hood so doesn't have a light attached, will this be a big problem? The nursery tank will end up being used for molly and guppy fry just to add. Also again my main tank doesn't have salt in it as my pleco and corys would hate me if i did that but i know mollies and guppys prefer some salt so would you suggest salting the nursery tank? or gradually salt the tank after adding the fry since it might kill them from the shock of the change?

Thanks in advance for any advice. I will be away this weekend unfortunately i just wanted to get this posted up before i leave. My fishes will be well looked after by my house mates they have strict instructions as to lighting and feeding so they should be fine


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

First, may I welcome you to Tropical Fish Keeping forum. Glad you joined us.

Now to your questions. Forget the salt; no freshwater fish needs salt. Mollies can manage in brackish water, and other livebearers tolerate salt better than most other fish, but the fact remains that none of them "need" it. [The do need mineral salts, but that is not the same thing as sodium salt; mineral salts occur in medium hard to hard water.] Having said that, if your molly was in brackish water and had fry, the fry should obviously remain in that for the beginning.

To the fry tank. You won't need a hood, though a cover is useful to keep water in the tank and dust out, also a more constant temperature (less of an issue in summer of course). Keep the water level a bit lower, just in case fish decide to jump esp as they get larger. If you had plants, light would be necessary (or a window location).

Feeding livebearer fry is easy, as they can take finely ground flake foods from the start. Pinch them up in your hand. Include veggie-based flake foods like spirulina and algae and kelp to provide the vegetable green food molly require. Newly-hatched brine shrimp are fine [you're spoiling the fry so early;-)] but not necessary with livebearers.

For the future; fish tend to give birth in the early morning, egg layers usually spawn then too. Floating plants is the best protection; livebearer fry tend to quickly move to the surface, and with floating plants will be more protected longer. Stem plants allowed to float work fine; cabomba and similar fine-leaf plants are ideal.

Byron.


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey thanks for all the info and the welcome!

I'm pretty gutted as when I got home today after my weekend away I found out that 2 of my fry had died ( On the bright side though my guppy that had been looking like he was in a bad way has perked up again and is looking good and all the others look happy and healthy to.

Hmmm i may get some mineral salts to add to the tank then as my water is more soft than medium or hard. The mollies arent in brackish water so i shall take your advice and just give the salt a miss 

I love my fish! So I like to give them a treat or 2 every week so i decided the fry would deserve a wee treat as well D I like to spoil them )

As for the plants i have plenty of cover for the fry in my main tank but none of it is floating my plants are all attached to driftwood and sit on the bottom and i have a couple of ornaments but the big fishies can fit in them so i guess that is not very helpful to them . I'll see if i can find a floating plant for the fry tank along with the driftwood with a plant attached that i got for it )

I'll try to see if i can find a make shift cover for the fry tank to keep the dust out and the water in )

Thanks for the info on when they tend to give birth i will definitely keep that in mind as one of my other mollies looks like she is going to have her fry soon.

Once again thank you for your input it is much appreciated


----------



## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

+1 with everything Byron said (including the welcome). No need for salt at all, even though mollies in the wild are found in brackish lagoons, many/most we get are tank raised and never saw nay salt.
As just food for thought, you can keep fry for some time in a net breeder basket in your main tank, but for best results, I feel they should be moved to a separate tank until large enough to no longer be FOOD.

As for a cover for the soon to be fry tank, until you find something more permanent, saran like plastic wrap works really well - you'd be surprised...oh it doesn't stand a long test of time, but a roll goes a very long way!

(too bad the mother passed)

Best wishes


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi Crazy Queenie,

Welcome to TFK. I'm going to learn along with you on your fry thread. I've always had pregnant Platys in my community tank and the fry end up as nom noms for the other fish.

I had to remove a few platy yesterday to a hospital tank and one of them started dropping fry immediately. It was so cool to watch and I managed to get about 6 or so into a fry tank before they got eaten.

Good luck raising yours and I'm sorry momma didn't make it.


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Thanks for the info AbbeysDad ) Will try some plastic wrap, or cling film as it is called over here, until i can find something permanent ) Was pretty gutted about the mother dieing as she was a really nice looking Molly (

Would i be able to put my shrimp in the fry tank or would it want to nom nom on the Fry? I want to take it out of my main tank as i only have 1 left out of 5 because i think the rest got eaten the same day i got them and the only one left hides under one of my pieces of driftwood permanently i have never seen him/her come out from under it.... I love shrimp though so wanted to get more but only if it would be ok to put them in the fry tank till they are big enough not get eaten by my other fish??

Thats cool Romad i hope all your fry are doing well and continue to do so! Good luck in raising yours to! :-D


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm just following up on your comment about soft water. Do you know the hardness (GH) of your tap water? And what is the pH? If it is "soft" this could explain the behaviours and death.

Livebearers must have medium hard to hard water, and the pH will correspondingly be above 7. In soft, acidic water they absolutely will not last long-term, the minerals are lacking. There are easy and safe ways to harden water in a tank, which I can mention when I have your response on the numbers.

Byron.


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey Byron,

I tested my tap water and it went the color that corresponds to 0 for GH and it says the PH is about 6.4. I tested the tank water as well and it says the PH is somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6 but the GH one is kinda confusing because it has one color round the outside which corresponds to 8 GH but then the color on the inside is the one for 0. Rather confused. Can you suggest a good make for the other type of testers? cause these strip ones seem crap.

Thanks

CQ


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Crazie Queenie said:


> Hey Byron,
> 
> I tested my tap water and it went the color that corresponds to 0 for GH and it says the PH is about 6.4. I tested the tank water as well and it says the PH is somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6 but the GH one is kinda confusing because it has one color round the outside which corresponds to 8 GH but then the color on the inside is the one for 0. Rather confused. Can you suggest a good make for the other type of testers? cause these strip ones seem crap.
> 
> ...


API liquid test kits are reliable. Sera [if I've spelled that correctly] also are though more expensive if you can find them. I use API.

You should get the pH test, and probably nitrate. Once a tank is established these are all you normally need. Ammonia and nitrite are good to have when setting up a tank. You can get all 4 mentioned tests in API's "Master" kit.

Hardness is a test I wouldn't get unless you intend to adjust the hardness in the tank. Once you know the hardness of your tap water, that is what the tank will be unless something is put in the tank to alter hardness. But this is where we come to your livebearers; if the tap water really is what you think, this is going to cause problems for livebearers and they will not last.

My first suggestion is to contact your water supply people; many have a website, and water data is posted. Find out from them the hardness, get the GH (general hardness) and KH (sometimes called alkalinity) numbers. I want to be certain of these before suggesting adjustment.

Byron.


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey Byron,

Well i looked for the info you asked for but couldn't find any actual data on it but i did read in several places that the majority of Scotland including where i am has soft water. I have ordered the API master kit not sure when that one will get here and i also ordered the API GH and KH general and Carbonate test kit which should hopefully be here by Friday.

My chemistry geekyness is actually being useful for once with all this haha :-D

CQ

P.S Have you got any suggestions about the shrimp thing i mentioned previously?


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Shrimp would have to be a good size to eat livebearer fry that tend to remain near the surface. I don't know much about shrimp, which is to say nothing at all, so I can't comment on species.


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Well the ones i had were small enough to get themselves munched on by i think my mollies so i guess they would be small enough to live with the fry. 

What do you think i should do regarding the softness/hardness issue? Wait for the tests to arrive before doing anything? or....? 

CQ


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Crazie Queenie said:


> Well the ones i had were small enough to get themselves munched on by i think my mollies so i guess they would be small enough to live with the fry.
> 
> What do you think i should do regarding the softness/hardness issue? Wait for the tests to arrive before doing anything? or....?
> 
> CQ


I would suggest you be certain of the hardness before considering adjusting it. Can you contact your water supply people directly, since their website didn't help?


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

I'll try phoning them tomorrow.

CQ


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

So i did phone them but they were about as useful as a chocolate teapot so i just waited for the test kits to show up of which they have so here is the results for the KH and GH test i done on my tank water:

GH = 89.5
KH = 5

Thats what i deciphered from the instructions and what not as they both took 5 drops to change color. Sooo good bad ugly?

I got the other test kit today so I'm gonna do those tests as well and will post the results of them in a bit.


Thanks 

CQ


----------



## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

what shrimps are you keeping?


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Done the rest of the tests and uuuh hmmm a couple of them aint so good...

PH = 7.4
Ammonia = 4.0
NitrIte = 0.25
NitrAte = 0

So ok i know the Ammonia is way to high and I'm about to do a water change earlier than planned to try help that a bit and I'm about to start using stress zyme in the tank as well. I'm not sure if it might have something to do with the fact i had to change my filter to a totally new one so i dunno if its got something to do with that or whether i feed them to much or something else... Suggestions??

How do i lower the Nitrite levels??


kitten_penang I actually don't know what kind of shrimp they are... they were just labeled shrimp lol. If i can get one of them to sit still long enough I'll try take a pic of one of them )


Thanks 

CQ


----------



## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

is it white with pincers? those might be ghost they are bad for babies.if they are red without pincers they will be fine with the babies


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

hmmm i dunno if id call it white but its certainly not red but i don't see any pincers they are only wee small things the now they have a kinda white/brown streak down the middle of their back.

CQ


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

That GH number indicates soft water (90ppm = 5 dGH) so for livebearers and shrimp I would harden it. Easiest way is with dolomite gravel if you can find it; it is a white gravel that slowly adds calcium and magnesium to the water; I use it in the filter, in a small mesh bag. A couple tablespoons lasts for months if not years. The benefit with dolomite is aq nice pH buffer too.

Second choice is crushed coral gravel, same process (bag in filter). This adds calcium only, but that will suffice for shrimp and livebearers. Doesnèt take much.

Byron.


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Thanks Byron! Will have a look for some dolomite gravel then  Any suggestions ie the Ammonia and nitrite levels?

Thanks 

CQ


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Is this what you mean Byron?? 

Sand, Gravel and Tiles UK - Mone Bros - Leeds

CQ


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Crazie Queenie said:


> Is this what you mean Byron??
> 
> Sand, Gravel and Tiles UK - Mone Bros - Leeds
> 
> CQ


Yes, that's dolomite. See if you can get it in a finer grade, i.e. gravel rather than chippings. It will be easier to put in the filter, and the smaller the particles the easier they dissolve. They dissolve very, very slowly. But this is dolomite. Probably 2-3 tablespoons will do it. Livebearers won't mind hard water, so no risk of getting it too hard...well, within reason anyway. The hardness (and corresponding pH) will rise over a few days after this is placed in the water. It is best in the filter, where the tank water flows through it regularly. I like the little mesh filter media bags you can buy in fish stores, but it could be just placed in a basket in a canister filter or mixed with other media, so long as it doesn't go through the openings into the filter motor and impeller.

Byron.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Crazie Queenie said:


> Thanks Byron! Will have a look for some dolomite gravel then  Any suggestions ie the Ammonia and nitrite levels?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> CQ


Ammonia is coming from somewhere, is this a new tank?

What water conditioner are you using?

StressZyme is not strictly speaking a tap water conditioner. I checked API's site, it does not mention that this products detoxifies chlorine/chloramine, which is what a water conditioner should primarily do. I am not a fan of StressZyme because the "breaking down" of organics creates ammonia, so it will increase. Also, natural bacteria in the substrate should handle this, and benefit the plants.


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Will try get the finer stuff and put some in my filter, which is a fluval 105 canister one so should be easy enough to put in there.

The tank has been running since the last week in May but has only had fish in it for the last 2 weeks or so. I use Nutrafin Aqua+ as a tap water conditioner. I'm using the Stress Zyme primarily because i was hoping it would help with the biological part of the filtration as the filter is brand new all new media and everything in an already established tank so I'm wondering if it may just be as simple as the tank adjusting to the new filter so to speak whilst the bacteria take up home in the filter?? Also i had the filter running at slightly less than half of what i could run at as my heater seems to struggle to heat the tank properly as it creates a pretty strong current in the tank but this fish seem to have great fun with it so I've turned it up and left it. If the temp starts to drop to low i'll turn it down again. I don't really know what would be the best water conditioner to use as there are so many i just dunno what ones are good and what ones you might as well be adding tap water... 

I tested my water not to long ago and the ammonia seems to have gone down a bit after doing the water change. Its closer to the color for 2.0 than 4.0 now.

I'm gonna cut down on how much i feed them and see if that helps any as well, although i didn't think i was over feeding them but maybe i was.

Thanks

CQ


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Going to buy this it's the only one i can find that has it in smaller particles. 10kg bag think I'll maybe have enough for the next 10 years.... lol

Coarse White Dolomite Sand - OnlineShells.co.uk

CQ


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

That dolomite is perfect.

Adding the fish started the cycle, so that explains the ammonia and nitrite. I still recomend discontinuing the StressZyme; breaking down organics faster, thus creating more ammonia/nitrite, is not what we want in a new tank. Change water daily, half the tank, until ammonia is below .25 and nitrite the same. Using a conditioner that detoxifies these (along with other stuff) is advisable until cycling is complete. Prime by Seachem and Ultimate (forgotten who makes that0 are two I know of. Nutrafin AquaPlus will not handle ammonia or nitrite.

Tossing in some live plants, even floating stem plants, will help with the ammonia/nitrite too.

If you haven't already, teswt your tap water on its own for both ammonia and nitrite. Good to know if either is present.

Byron.


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

Okie dokie dolomite, media bags and prime all ordered so should be here in a few days or so. Any other stuff that would be handy to have at hand? incase of emergency's cause i can't drive hence why I'm always ordering stuff instead of going out and buying it there and then )

I have 2 quite large live plants attached to some driftwood already in the tank so got that covered and i have a little one in my fry tank as well. I want to get some java moss or something similar as a floating plant for the fry tank and my main tank but i cant find it anywhere over here 

I tested my tap water earlier as well and there didn't seem to be any of either in the tap water so thats a bonus! lol

Thanks for all your help!! Me and my fishies appreciate it :-D

CQ


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Sounds good. Look around for some Brazilian Pennywort, it is a stem plant but one that does very well left floating, and for fry it is ideal. Cabomba also works, but Pennywort is less "fussy".


----------



## Crazie Queenie (Jul 21, 2011)

awesome shall have a look for that then ) 

Thanks!

CQ


----------

