# Treatment for a variety of problems w/catfish



## Jason M (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello, 

I've been having trouble with my fish for some time now, originally I attributed it to cycling and poor stock on the suppliers end. But now I'm fairly certain that there's some bacterial/fungal/parasitic issue with my aquarium.

First off, the aquarium is:

50g
Tetra Whisper EX 70 filter
Air stone (for 40-60g)
Heater set on 79F
Gravel
Plastic Plants/Rocks (no live plants)

Peramiters:
Straight 0's with a PH of 6.0 (ph may be a little low)
40ish% water change weekly

Fish: 
Well, yesterday it was 4 Raphael Catfish (2 Stripe 2 Spotted), 4 Angelfish, and a Red Tail Shark...Today its 4 Raphael and 3 angelfish.

Over the past few weeks I've lost a total of 6 angelfish, a RTS, and 3 tiger barbs. I started the aquarium with tiger barbs I moved form a 10g so I attribute their death to cycling, but after everything established I had no real problems when it contained 4 Tiger Barbs, a RTS, 2 Glass Barbs, and 2 Spotted Raphael Catfish. Well, there was a problem with aggression with the tiger barbs but besides that...I gave the barbs away and kept my Raphael Catfish (my favorite fish), and the RTS because he was always peaceful unless something attacked him first. 

I went to a family owned pet store to get 3 Angelfish, they seemed to be doing okay so a week later I got 3 more. Within 2 weeks the original 3 angelfish died within 3 days of each other (water readings were normal, temp was normal, etc). I waited bout a week and a half to see if any other angelfish would die but they didn't so I got 3 more. This time withing a week 1 died, then the next week another died (the smallest of the 6 and the biggest of the 6). Then everything seemed to be normal until about a week ago, my RTS started to act strange, hiding in a log all day/night (still had a red tail) then yesterday 1 day after a water change he came out and was swimming (a bit slower than usual) then today he was dead with one of my Angelfish.

I noticed yesterday a "white fuzz" on my angelfish, at first I thought it was just their coloration, but now I'm fairly sure I was wrong. Its not exactly like what Ich is described as "salt granules" I would describe it as a very discrete mold like what it would look like just forming on bread or cheese.

Also my Raphael Catfish (striped) have 2 issues, one of them has excess slime which may be natural, I've seen Shovel Nose Catfish have a white film on them and its just shedding. But my other has a white eye since I first got him. I'm not sure if he was just stabbed in the eye by another Raphael's spikes during shipping or it may be eye cloud or some similar infection/bacteria/disease (NOTE: its only in one eye on one fish). It has become more white over the 2-3 months I have had them so a fungus sounds right to me.


Anyway, now that all the details (hopefully) are out of the way I can get to my questions. 
What would be a good treatment I could use to cure my fish (something with broad coverage would be nice since I think its possibly fungus+bacteria+infection) but won't harm my catfish. I know my moms fish had Ich some time back (3 Black Skirt Tetras & 3 Cory Catfish). She treated with some medication that killed all of her Cory Catfish overnight (but the Tetras were cured). 

I was looking on Petsmarts website and "Tetra® Lifeguard™ All-in-One Treatment" would cover the broad orray of possible problems, but it has the same thing I see on most medications "Not suitable for scaleless fish, invertebrates or newly set up tanks" which translates to may kill Catfish. Not to be cruel or anything I would rather losing my last 3 Angelfish than losing my Raphael's. Its uncommon for local pet stores to get them in, and my striped are up to about 5" long. And I'm getting tired of the problems that come along with angels. 

And I don't think this is a major issue at the time, but can anyone tell me if the current from my filter could be to strong for angelfish? They have a rough time swimming by it, but I don't know if it would over-stress them or anything.

Anyway to recap the problem and question encase anyone skipped over them: White fuzz on angel fish, fish keep dieing, Raphael's have excess slime/shedding(?), and one Raphael has a white eye. I would like some sort of broad treatment that won't harm my catfish.

Thanks for any feedback, I'll try my best to provide any additional information.

Jason M


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

What parameters do you check?

I need the PH, hardness, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Don't use the strips, they're extremely inaccurate. I would not dose with anything until you can get a confirmed diagnosis. We need photos.

Once the problem is solved, then you can treat the fungus with something like Melafix.
Fungus only grows when the water quality is poor... So consider it a secondary problem.


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## Jason M (Feb 10, 2012)

redchigh said:


> What parameters do you check?
> 
> I need the PH, hardness, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Don't use the strips, they're extremely inaccurate. I would not dose with anything until you can get a confirmed diagnosis. We need photos.
> 
> ...



I've actually been using Petsmart for their free tests. 
The PH is 6.0, ammonia is 0, the nitrite is 0, and the nitrates are 0. As for hardness they just tell me "soft" so I'm not exactly sure about that. The person doing the testing isn't just someone off of the street, they have a few large aquariums of their and they say it shouldn't be anything with the water perimeters.

Everything started with the first supply of Angelfsih (except my one catfish's eye), so they had to drag something in with them. The family owned fist store's a little notorious for having poor quality fish but they were the only place other than petsmart to have angels (but at the time petsmart was treating theirs for ich) so I had little choice.

I can try to take pictures a little later tonight, but besides the catfish's excess mucus/slime and eye nothings going to show up. I can barley notice the "fuzz" on the angelfish standing 5" away from them.

I did neglect to mention the size of my fish like the "MUST READ" sticky mentioned but the raphaels are about 3.5" (spotted) and 4.5-5" (stripped). The angels I'm not sure on the proper measurements on them are quarter sized (just body) or slightly larger than half dollar including their major fins.

Is there any other things that can tell you if your water quality is poor besides the Ammonia/nitrates/nitrites? I always judged it based on my sharks tail, if it went pale something was defiantly wrong with the water. I had it in a 10g for a few months and it was better than any test kit. Since it had been in the 50g it only went pale once, it was always as bright red like you would expect. I vacuum the gravel once a week for about 40% of the water, I keep the water as clear as it possibly could be. In theory of the "1 inch of adult fish per 1 gallon" I may have been over crowded by 4 inches or so (again, assuming they were adult but they were far from it).


OHHH, and this may be of some use, I have another aquarium set up, an overstocked 10g that I treat exactly the same as the 50g but my fish aren't dieing. It contains a Golden Gourami 4" (meant to get a honey sunset but it was miss-labeled), a common pleco 4" that needs to be put in the 50g when everythings fixed, and a lone tiger barb that was to aggressive to keep with any others. The water in its actually much worse quality than in the 50g because it clouds up after about 3-4 days.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

how often do you do water changes?


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## Jason M (Feb 10, 2012)

redchigh said:


> how often do you do water changes?


Weekly, every Thursday/Friday.


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## Jason M (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm going to try to get pictures now, I only have a 5mp camera so don't expect much. Whats the best place to upload them?


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I use ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting 
strong current will stress out angelfish, but the catfish shouldn't mind it.

Try this page-
Fish Eye Disorders
then cross-check the treatment to make sure its safe for catfish.


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## Jason M (Feb 10, 2012)

I'll try getting more, this is the best quality I could get out of my camera.









Shot at 2012-02-10









Shot at 2012-02-10










Shot at 2012-02-10










Shot at 2012-02-10


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Could be neon tetra disease, but let someone else confirm.


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## Jason M (Feb 10, 2012)

redchigh said:


> Could be neon tetra disease, but let someone else confirm.


Well, I'm starting to question the water too, another died about an hr ago and these are acting strange, they usually come to me but there running (making pictures hard). But I did my water change the day before yesterday (Wednesday).


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

There's always a chance it's something in the water that you can't test for... like higher levels of chloramines, or metals...

How is your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all 0? Nitrate should be present in a cycled tank. Do you have live plants or something?


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## Jason M (Feb 10, 2012)

redchigh said:


> There's always a chance it's something in the water that you can't test for... like higher levels of chloramines, or metals...
> 
> How is your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all 0? Nitrate should be present in a cycled tank. Do you have live plants or something?


All I can tell you is what the people at Petsmart tells me. I know I need to get my own high quality kit, but I just haven't. If I go out this weekend (its snowing quite a lot right now) I'll get one assuming I have anything left alive. Down to 2 angels and 4 catfish.


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## Jason M (Feb 10, 2012)

Okay, current situation: 

I took out my last 2 angelfish and put them in a 5g for a treatment. Its some cheap stuff and I sort of regret it. Its the stuff my mom used some time ago that killed her cory catfish but saved her tetras. It seems to have got all of the "fuzz" off of the fish, however even with a treatment (1/2 a pill for 5g) it damaged the angelfish's fins...I'm not sure if they'll recover but they were on the verge of death so it was this or nothing. If nothing else they are swimming around in the 5g like they used to.

Now, for the 50g with 4x Raphael's...I've looked around at some treatments and it seems the "best shot" is coppersafe. The thing is, I've heard mixed reviews about using it with catfish and I'm wondering if there's any better solutions. 

At the moment my 1 Raphael has the white eye (thanks redchigh for the link on treatments, it looks like one of these
A). Cottony white growth over lens of eye







Saprolegnia Fungus







 Forma-Green -or-  Copper Sulfate.
E. The entire eye becomes cloudy from the inside out







Could be a parasite, i.e., flukes







Check the tank for parasites. If found, treat the entire tank with  De-Los. The fish may lose it's eye. (hope its not this one)

And my 2 striped that lived together longest have what I can only describe as a "mucous" on their bodies. The mucous may be natural but its not effecting my spotted ones at this moment. I've tried to get pictures of them but it hasn't turned out well.

I'm thinking coppersafe will cure both problems if the eye things A). Copper Sulfate is recommended, and Coppersafe says it will fix external parasites (visible spots, worms, rapid breathing, extra mucous).

I'll be at petsmart tomorrow so I'll be getting something to try treating the tank. 

And, assuming whatever treatment I choose works how long will it be before its safe to restock fish?



~~~~~One other symptom that arose on my solid white angelfish before it died, there was red on its tail (blood streaks[?]) It only became visible literally an hr before death and it wasn't caused by any other fish.


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