# Advice for a 50g



## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm new to the marine side of aquariums, So I'm looking for information basically from start to finish on setting up my 50g aquarium. I have the aquarium, stand, and 2 stealth 200 watt heaters, and thats basically it. I have more stuff from my previous cichlid aquarium but nothing that can be used. I have a few questions that I'd also like to have answered. 

Do I need any sort of aeration like a bubbler? I have one already but I've never noticed any marine aquariums that use them. 

What type of powerheads would I need?, I know what they do but I dont understand why they're neccessary..

I plan on buying a Fluval 305 Canister filter system, Is that going to be efficient enough? I know it says its good for up to 70 gallon aquariums, and flows 260gph. 

I've read that some people use a Protein Skimmer in place of a canister filter, is that correct? If so whats the reason behind that. 

Also I'm confused about the whole sump thing. In a previous thread of mine somebody said I should use my 29g as a sump and drill the back of my tank? Can somebody please explain.


I'm Sure this thread will grow full of questions along the way but for now I think if asked enough. I do have somewhat of a plan for my aquarium. I have been thinking about making the switch from fresh to salt water for a while now so I have somewhat of an image in my head. I've done some research of fish and corals but I'm not exactly finished with my list. Here is what I have so far, Feel free to voice opinions and let me know if anything seems incompatible.

For substrate I have decided on Nature's Ocean Marine White Sand. I looked at it when I was in Petco a few days ago and really like the way it looks and feels. If there is something that would be better as far as how smooth it looks and the color of it then please let me know. I'm looking for a really nice light tan to white color.

As far as the fish go, I've decided on either a pair of Ocellaris Clowns or One normal colored Ocellaris Clown and one Black and White Ocellaris Clown, 2 Blue Green Reef Chromis, 1 Blue Sapphire Damsel and 1 Flame Angel. As far as Inverts go I'd like to get a Blue & Pink Star Fish but I think they'd get too big for my liking. I am planning on a Scarlet Skunk Shrimp though. 

For Coral I haven't quite gotten a list prepared but I do know I'd like most of my coral to be the kind that has flowing stubby tentacles. 

I'm sure planning to learn alot as I go, So any information will help.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

andrewr2488 said:


> I'm new to the marine side of aquariums, So I'm looking for information basically from start to finish on setting up my 50g aquarium. I have the aquarium, stand, and 2 stealth 200 watt heaters, and thats basically it. I have more stuff from my previous cichlid aquarium but nothing that can be used. I have a few questions that I'd also like to have answered.


Welcome to the forum Andrew, and more importantly, welcome to the marine side of the hobby! You have a great challenge ahead of you, so first let me tell you that we are here to help. The most difficult part of this process will be erasing all that information that you have from the freshwater side of the hobby. I personally think it is a lot easier to being with a marine tank, as opposed to doing freshwater first. All of the concepts you learned in freshwater will be useless on our side of the hobby, so try your best to learn from the beginning and not be influenced by old methods and habbits.

I will answer some of your more random questions first, then try not to bore you with a bit longer discussion. As we continue this thread, I would first encourage you to read a couple specific articles on our site. This will help to close the knowledge gap, and especially make you familiar with how most of us here at TFK run our marine systems. Here are the articles:

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...-filtration-101-how-differs-freshwater-31955/
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/saltwater-articles/saltwater-setting-up-quarantine-tank-35693/

Each of these articles provide information necessary at the very beginning. There are other articles in our article area http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/index.php?sid=6e01da1e713c4a07ab9a8c0836833231, all of which are updated and relevant. But I would suggest that you begin with the two I have linked so as to not overwhelm yourself at this point.



> Do I need any sort of aeration like a bubbler? I have one already but I've never noticed any marine aquariums that use them.


No, these types of bubbles result in excessive salt creep.



> What type of powerheads would I need?, I know what they do but I dont understand why they're neccessary..


In marine tanks water flow is of tremendous importance. The water flow generated from the skimmer and/or sump returns are simply not sufficient. I would suggest that you add 2 additional powerheads in the tank. The brand is not overly important, but I personally use MaxiJets. The koralia brand Hydor koralia pump hydor koralia pumps hydor koralia circulation pump koralia powerheads koralia water pump hydor koralia powerhead hydor koralia water circulation pump koralia power heads has become very popular with others on the forum. [/quote]



> I plan on buying a Fluval 305 Canister filter system, Is that going to be efficient enough? I know it says its good for up to 70 gallon aquariums, and flows 260gph.


You don't want this filter on a marine tank. Canister filters, by design, as extremelly efficient at breaking down ammonia and nitrite, with an end result of nitrate. This is not at all what we are aiming to do in a marine system. They are also effective at trapping dirt and debris, called "detritus", which we also aim to avoid in marine aquarium setups. I will avoid the very long discussion on these concepts until after you have read the Saltwater Filtration 101 article linked above.



> I've read that some people use a Protein Skimmer in place of a canister filter, is that correct? If so whats the reason behind that.


Skimmers remove organic waste directly from the system, without causing nitrate buildup, and without removing a carbonate from the buffer system.




> Also I'm confused about the whole sump thing. In a previous thread of mine somebody said I should use my 29g as a sump and drill the back of my tank? Can somebody please explain.


Again, a review of an article is appropriate. 

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/saltwater-articles/understanding-sumps-15930/ A sump is not mandatory, so to speak, but will greatly improve the overall health of your system, and give you a convenient place to hide your equipment.



> For substrate I have decided on Nature's Ocean Marine White Sand. I looked at it when I was in Petco a few days ago and really like the way it looks and feels. If there is something that would be better as far as how smooth it looks and the color of it then please let me know. I'm looking for a really nice light tan to white color.


Good brand. The important part of sand is to use the proper depth. You want to use less than 1'' of sand, or between 4'' and 6'' of sand. Using the 4'' to 6'' depth will help to achieve denitrification, which is the process by which Nitrate is converted into Nitrogen Gas, which leaves the system naturally. You should avoid using sand depths between 1'' and 4'', as these tend to have more problems over the long run with detritus accumulation, and are not as efficient in the denitrification benefits. 



> As far as the fish go, I've decided on either a pair of Ocellaris Clowns or One normal colored Ocellaris Clown and one Black and White Ocellaris Clown, 2 Blue Green Reef Chromis, 1 Blue Sapphire Damsel and 1 Flame Angel. As far as Inverts go I'd like to get a Blue & Pink Star Fish but I think they'd get too big for my liking. I am planning on a Scarlet Skunk Shrimp though.


This part of the discussion should really wait a couple of weeks. So much depends on the filtration and aquascapping design. Are these the fish you want, or the fish you decided on based on what you think you are capable of maintaining?



> For Coral I haven't quite gotten a list prepared but I do know I'd like most of my coral to be the kind that has flowing stubby tentacles.


I will let others go into these details, but this discussion will also depend on the equipment, most importantly the lighting. 

Take a minute to read those articles, and feel free to continue asking questions!


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

that info wasvery useful, but let me get this straight. For filtration, all that I need is a protein skimmer, live rock, and live sand? If I am going to use a sump, do I need to drill my tank? The use of a sump sounds like something that wouldbea godsend. Not having to worry about evaporation in the display tank would be great! So now that I understand the filtration and sump side of things, what isthenext step?


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

yes those are the main keys to it 
now for drilling yes you can get away with out doing so (mine has a HOT over flow) but from all that i have read in the long run drilling is the way to go.... watch a ton of youTube vids on over flow, plumbing and sumps to see a number of variations to these types of set ups.... 
next step IMO is to consider the type of tank you want 
FOWLER - Fish Only With Live Rock
Reef- fish and corals (or just corals)
Fish only - well you get the idea
then research and look at others tanks to see what fits what you want... next after you decide (and plans can change but its easier from the get go) comes the most painful part 

THE SHOPPING LIST....
what you want for gear
plumbing
pumps
lights 
skimmer
heater and or chiller
test kits
salt mixes that fit your needs..
decide what water you will use (hot debate here!!!)
then move into how does it all come together..... once your there then everything gets really fun!!!!!!!!!!


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

I've decided to drill the tank, and use my spare 29 gallon tank as the sump. I'd like to have a propagation chamber and refugium. Do I actually need a refugium if I'm going to have a 10g Q tank. I really would like to just have the Propagation Chamber, and a place to hide my Heater, Skimmer, and Return Pump.

I am assuming that I only need One of my 200 Watt Heaters if its going to be in the Sump? I have 2 Marineland Stealth 200 Watt Heaters as stated earlier. 

I do plan on setting up a Fish AND Coral Display. I am still deciding on coral but I'm assuming that the lighting will narrow down my choices for coral, Or does it go the other way around? Now that I'm on the topic of lighting, Are there any recommendations? I dont have hoods or covers for my tank but I'm thinking about making some on my own out of plexi-glass, Is that fine? 

What is the most Aesthetically pleasing sump? Or which one is most recommended?


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

andrewr2488 said:


> I've decided to drill the tank, and use my spare 29 gallon tank as the sump. I'd like to have a propagation chamber and refugium. Do I actually need a refugium if I'm going to have a 10g Q tank.


The refugium and quarantine tank are not in any way related. The quarantine tank is an isolation tank for newly acquired fish. A refugium is a place in the sump which encourages the growth of microfauna.



> I am assuming that I only need One of my 200 Watt Heaters if its going to be in the Sump? I have 2 Marineland Stealth 200 Watt Heaters as stated earlier.


You will be heating the entire water volume, so use both heaters. Plus, using both heaters provides you insurance if one were to stop working.



> What is the most Aesthetically pleasing sump? Or which one is most recommended?


Most sumps are home made. I'm not real sure what you were asking here.


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

there are 3 different sump setups, am I correct? I read the article on sumps, and as far as drilling the tank it said you can drill from the back, bottom or not at all?


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

the main difference between sump "types" is what function they serve and how you arrainge the space in side,, this can vary greatly from person to person..
for example i will out line my own sump and it works for me but may not suit any one else... i use a 20 gallon long tank. when looking at the tank the 1st chamber is set on the right and has my flow from the tank into the sump alsoin this chamber is my skimmer.. water travels over a high baffle into the next chamber my refugium in here i have my heater, cheato (macro algae), and now a 4inch deep bed of crushed coral, the water then moves over a bubble trap (set of baffles with one low-one high-one low) to my return chamber, here is my return pump and a split off back to chamber 1 so i can adjust flow and get some of my water skimmed again (personal preference)
as i used an old tank i had laying around its not esthetically pleasing but it serves its function very well... 

as for drilling for the plumbing i will let those with more experience comment on that as i do not have my tank drilled and i don't mind it at all....

for a better look at my sump go to my build thread in my sig and see what i mean


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

ok I get it now. So in the sump, the baffles dont completely cutoff the water from each section, they simple separate chambers while still allowing water to flow freely from the side that houses the skimmer to the side which returns the water back to the display. The bubble trap is still a little confusing but I get the overall idea. Do all chambers have to be equal in size? I'm using a 29 gallon tank as my sump


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

not at all in fact they should be sized to fit what you need i did not need as much space for my skimmer as i wanted for the fuge so i adjusted accordingly


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

awesome, I'm gonna start making a supply list. Thanks


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

keep us posted and remember there are a million way to achieve the great result ... so even differing oppinions are great and make this salty adventure so much more fun...


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

will do! What can you tell me about lighting?


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

well i can not tel you much just my recent experiance..... for my refugium i use a clamp on lamp with a 5500k CFL bulb from Home Depot and my Cheato grows like crazy.... i had 1 t8 50/50 bulb and 1 t8 10000k bulb and 2 compact 6500k bulbs on my main display tank (DT) and to be honest i was not happy with them at all... i just got in 2 36" T5 fixtures each with true actinic and 12000k bulbs and i tell you in just one day i can see a remarkable difference.... my corals are loving it and they look so much better.. not to mention that these lights really open up a bunch more corals to me in the future...... not many people use MH (metal halides) and have great results i dont know much about them so i wont comment other than to say they are much more expensive to buy and operate.....
also a ton of folks are really about brand for one reason or another and i am not that guy i got a great deal on mine where i could have paid $100 each fixture (i have 2) i paid $100 for both with shipping and i really like them...

one other bit i am a HUGE fan of DIY if you can make it or make something else work for what you want it to do then i am the guy that does it LOL....


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

Great! I guess once I decide on what corals I want, I can then decide my lighting needs. I'd like to buy one that has moonlight led's. Can you explain more about the bubble trap in the sump, I don't quite get the one high one low one high.


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

again i am a diy fan so i would say make your own moon lihgts i am making mine next week and after pricing all i need i think the total is up to about $10....LOL i am a cheap cheap man ......


ok as for the bubble trap watch this 
YouTube - Reef Tank D.I.Y. Sump part 1
search Google and youtube a lot and you will see some great stuff... this vid is large scale but just think smaller if you are using a different size tank...


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm all for diy,but I dont have the money to risk messing up the light fixture


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

i hear you... i guess i was more in the mind of get a light and Modify it rather than building one....


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

yeah I hear ya, how long does the tank have to cycle before it is"mature?" I saw the video about sumps, thank you! It cleared up my question wonderfully. I do have a few more questions though.

In one of my earlierposts I stated that I wanted to use natures ocean marine white sand, can you explain what live sand is and how I could use the natures ocean sand as my substrate?

also, I read that when grown, damsels get quite territorial. Is it a bad idea to have 2 types of damsels in my setup? I'd like to have one 3 striped damsel and one yellow tail damsel.


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## DisneyCoralReef (Feb 26, 2010)

Wanted to post a quick thank you andrew for starting your thread. I've asked all your questions before and can't seem to re-read all those starter threads enough to understand more and more what it is I need to do for mine. Keeping an eye on this thread. Keep up with the great questions, the folks here on the site are absolutely phenomenal. Definitely helping me build and put together my fist SW tank.

Keep asking, these guys will keep helping. Now I demand pictures of your building as you start this up!


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

Thank you, I'm glad that others out there are getting help along with me! I will post some pictures soon, right now its raining and pretty bad so I cant finish cleaning my tank and what not. Trying to sell my old FW filter and some other odds and ends to help pay for my SW equipment. I am browsing a few different lightings atm and haven't exactly decided which route to go. I'm looking into a AquaticLife Lunar Light, It has a built in timer with 2 colors of Flourescent bulbs and also LED blue moon lighting. Has a timer also so you can set the time you'd like each light to turn on and off. Ill update my list tonight.
*
*


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## DisneyCoralReef (Feb 26, 2010)

andrewr2488 said:


> Thank you, I'm glad that others out there are getting help along with me! I will post some pictures soon, right now its raining and pretty bad so I cant finish cleaning my tank and what not. Trying to sell my old FW filter and some other odds and ends to help pay for my SW equipment. I am browsing a few different lightings atm and haven't exactly decided which route to go. I'm looking into a AquaticLife Lunar Light, It has a built in timer with 2 colors of Flourescent bulbs and also LED blue moon lighting. Has a timer also so you can set the time you'd like each light to turn on and off. Ill update my list tonight.
> *
> *


If you need to order some stuff online, let me know. I was given this store online and ordered half my equipment from those guys. They have been INCREDIBLE with my orders and keeping me posted as to where the stuff is, how long its going to take for shipping etc etc. PM me if it's something you need to do.


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

Alright Thanks! I'm ordering my stuff from Foster and Smith. So far I have a mock up supply list made.

Lighting will be the AquaticLife Lunar Compact Fluorescent setup. I'd like to buy the Ecoxotic Panorama LED Setup but that's a bit pricey! 

Filtration will include my LS and LR, and also a CoralLife Super Skimmer with the Needle Wheel (Either the 125Gallon or 220Gallon, Haven't decided) I'm not sure how much LS and LR I need to fill my 50g tank. Probably 75# of LS and 20-30# of LR?

I already have my Stand, Aquarium, and 2 Marineland Stealth 200 Watt heaters, And I'm gonna use a 20 Long as a sump. I have a spare 29g but I don't think It will fit under my stand. :-( 

My stocking list is about where it has been for the past few days or so. 1 Tank Bred Ocelleris Clown, 1 Purple Dotty back, 1 Flame Angel, 2 Blue Green Reef Chromis, 1 Three Stripe Damsel, and 1-2 Yellow Tail Damsel. I'd like to get a Scooter Dragonet eventually. 1 Striped Skunk Cleaner Shrimp. These are in no certain order either.


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

andrewr2488 said:


> yeah I hear ya, how long does the tank have to cycle before it is"mature?" I saw the video about sumps, thank you! It cleared up my question wonderfully. I do have a few more questions though.
> 
> In one of my earlierposts I stated that I wanted to use natures ocean marine white sand, can you explain what live sand is and how I could use the natures ocean sand as my substrate?
> 
> also, I read that when grown, damsels get quite territorial. Is it a bad idea to have 2 types of damsels in my setup? I'd like to have one 3 striped damsel and one yellow tail damsel.


ok as for the substrate "Live sand" has beneficial bacteria and various critters in it to assist in the filtration of the system... opinions on substrate vary widely and i will let those who know more jump inhere but personally i would spend the money on all live sand as it will help seed your rock if you get a mostly base (dry) drock to start off with (which is quite a bit cheaper) 

as for Damsels i will agree they get territorial and most peole will stay clear of them .. i personally think each fish has a distinct personality and you may be able to find a group that works (i have 4 in mine and they are doing well) the only down side i see is i hesitate to add any other fish to the tank as i have read many times that they will kill off new additions.. so either add them last or intend for them to be the only fish in the tank...


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

Ok, Next friday I'm ordering my Lighting, Then the following week Ill order my Skimmer. Also planning to order about 50 pounds of dryrock from Marco Rocks and a few pieces of live rubble rock from a LFS to seed the dryrock. I don't know how much sand I need to create a 4" bed of sand in my 50g tank.


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

if you type in "sand bed calculator" for a search in Google a number of them will come up and these will give you an estimate amount of sand needed


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

I know you said sand bed depth can be either 1" or 4-6" and I calculated that 1" equivilates to 23# of sand. Would the 2 extra lbs of sand to make it 25# make a diifference?


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

IMHO ... no .. i would just get the 25# and have a few spots that are thicker than others (perhaps to raise a rock up?) but i personally would not worry about it


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

I am having second thoughts about the flame angel and damsels. I am seeing that the flame angels nip coral, and damsels are quite nippy with tank mates. Anyone had problems with these fish or is it a uncommon occurrence?


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

I've been looking more into skimmers and return pumps and found an AquaC EV-240 with a mag12 for uder 500 dollars. Still comparing reviews so I'm not sure just yet. I'm learning as I go but would hate to buy based simply off impulse.


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

reviews are a great way to tell what you are getting and often you get what you pay for... unless you are a lucky dude like myself of course then you always get better


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

eh, I don't consider myself lucky but I do catch decent deals now and again. I'm debated on ev180 or ev120, the 240 is too much for my tank don't you think?


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

i am of the opinion that 
A) you can never over skim
and 
B) if you get a really big one that is one less piece to buy when you decide to upgrade
if no plans to up grade then one that is rated for at least you total volume + 50% minimum


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

I'll get the 180, it's rated for tanks from 75-180 which one day I hope to get a 90g


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

andrewr2488 said:


> I am having second thoughts about the flame angel and damsels. I am seeing that the flame angels nip coral, and damsels are quite nippy with tank mates. Anyone had problems with these fish or is it a uncommon occurrence?


Centropyge angelfish are a "risk" in reef tanks, including the Flame. That being said, for the most part people have had luck, although you do hear of the occasional one nipping on corals. So, if you are looking for sure things, then avoid the dwarf angel family altogether. I personally have a Coral Beauty in my reef... sometimes it will nip... but this is rare and has not been a problem. I believe the key is a daily feeding of the fish. 

Damsels as a whole should be avoided in almost every situation. As an exception, the Yellow Tail Damsels are somewhat passive, in tanks of 6 foot in length or larger. In aquariums under 6 foot they show quite a bit of nipping behavior towards other fish.


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## andrewr2488 (Sep 20, 2009)

once again I've changed my equipment, good thing I'm not an impulsive buyer!! I am seeing alot of positive reviews of the Coralife SuperSkimmer.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

andrewr2488 said:


> once again I've changed my equipment, good thing I'm not an impulsive buyer!! I am seeing alot of positive reviews of the Coralife SuperSkimmer.


this isn't a bad skimmer at all. One of our long term regulars, Austin, used this skimmer on his 75 gallon reef for a long time before upgrading. Dollar for dollar, its a nice hang on unit.


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## briang (Nov 17, 2008)

What are the dimensions of your 50 gal. I just hope that you don't make the same mistake that I made. If you are serious about having coral, you might want to make sure that you have AT LEAST 18 inches from the front of your thank to the back of your tank. Other wise, it is impossible to have coral as big as mine and still clean the front glass without breaking your coral. By the way, my coral is WAY BIGGER than you see in my avitar. I have to update my pic. soon. I had a 55 gal. and thought it was perfect until my coral grew and I couldn't clean my tank without breaking my coral. I sold it, at a loss and got a 75 gal. that gave me 6 more inches. I still break my green bali slimmer when I clean but It's not too bad. So far, I have sold exactly $ 1,425.00 worth of coral from my tank. It grows and I have to frag to make room. Good luck :-D


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