# Tank is Cycled Baby (31 days)



## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

Woot, Tank is Cycled thanks to my wonderful barbs and danios, don't forget the molly. Haha, exactly 31 days  

Thanks so much to everyone, I plagued the forum w/ questions and still will 

Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrates 10

Now...time to go get some fish baby.

Rec's? and some fish shouldn't be put in immediately after a tank cycling I heard, which ones?


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

yeahhhhhh cycled.  i bet you can't wait to get more fish.
not to add.
clown loaches.
Angel fish.
otto cats.
neons.
guppies(maybe)


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

willow said:


> yeahhhhhh cycled.  i bet you can't wait to get more fish.
> not to add.
> clown loaches.
> Angel fish.
> ...


Dang it...I wanted some Angels 

How long should I wait and do you know the reason?


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

they prefer a mature tank of 6mths plus.
in a new tank,things can still go a little wrong,and Angels won't take it.
i tried in the begining with my tank,and with rams too,they all died.


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Remember, the nitrogen cycle is just one of many things going on in your tank. It can take a while before things settle down and stabilize.


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

Tyyrlym said:


> Remember, the nitrogen cycle is just one of many things going on in your tank. It can take a while before things settle down and stabilize.


How about 2 months?


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## syrinx (Jan 12, 2009)

willow said:


> they prefer a mature tank of 6mths plus.


More accurately, they need good quality water, they dont care how long its been in the tank



Sj45 said:


> How about 2 months?


This is nearly impossible to answer, too many variables. If you keep up on things, do frequent water changes and extra ones at the first signs of trouble, angels would likely do fine now. If you don't, the water quality could be worse in 6 months than it is now. Little problems do tend to become big problems faster in a newer tank though. There are no guarantees either way.

I dont recommend anyone else try this (I suffer from chronic impatience) but I added my small angels 12 days after adding water. I also seeded the tank, did 25% pwc's evry other day for a couple weeks and twice a week since then, and a couple extra ones when I saw a fin starting to fray( turned out this problem was caused by a snail getting lodged in a bio-wheel, the other one wasn't established well enough to carry the load on it's own). I only felt this frequency was needed because I was feeding them 5 times a day for max growth (like I said, I'm impatient). They've about doubled in size in a month and look perfect. All that being said, something could go wrong tonight and they could be dead tomorrow.

I guess I would recommend waiting until you have gone a couple weeks with 0 ammonia, very little to no nitrate and 0 signs of stress in your other fish. Hope this helps.


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

syrinx said:


> More accurately, they need good quality water, they dont care how long its been in the tank
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That helps very much, I seem to be very similar to you as far as patience, lol as I did to a "fish" cycle, although I didn't use Angels.

Alright, well i agree w/ you make sure ammonia and nitrite stay down and no "mini-cycles"...sometimes I see stuff like 6 months and believe people on this forum are way to over-protective about fish, but idk..we'll see, thanks again


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

Sj45 said:


> Alright, well i agree w/ you make sure ammonia and nitrite stay down and no "mini-cycles"...sometimes I see stuff like 6 months and believe people on this forum are way to over-protective about fish, but idk..we'll see, thanks again


good luck with your fish.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Sj45 said:


> sometimes I see stuff like 6 months and believe people on this forum are way to over-protective about fish,


 That's because people here have proven their responsibility towards their fish and deserve a pat in the back for that. Any method is up to you however _generally_, we don't recommend using a fish to cycle the tank. As much as possible, either do fishless cycling or use established filter media to seed the tank. Both will not involve harming the fish to ammonia and nitrite intoxication.


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

Lupin said:


> That's because people here have proven their responsibility towards their fish and deserve a pat in the back for that. Any method is up to you however _generally_, we don't recommend using a fish to cycle the tank. As much as possible, either do fishless cycling or use established filter media to seed the tank. Both will not involve harming the fish to ammonia and nitrite intoxication.


Understandable, although my fish were not under stressful conditions during cycling because my nitrites/ammonia never reached higher than 1.0 (you guys will probably think that's too high) and I continually did water changes. You can do a "fish cycle" w/o harming fish, and the majority of aquarium keepers will without waiting 6 months for an angelfish.


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

Sj45 said:


> I see stuff like 6 months and believe people on this forum are way to over-protective about fish, but idk..we'll see, thanks again


i agree but that's in general for all web fish advice i mean who wants to be responcible for killing someone elses fish . New tank... i'd do water changes week ly about 20% and after a couplemonths every two weeks then if you have real plants every 4 weeks


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

The reason that people are cautious is that the odds of things working out well are vastly greater when things are taken slowly. Yes, cycling fishlessly can take a month, but at the end you won't have lost a single fish and when you do start to add them in it will be as stress free as possible and you're highly unlikely to lose any. Same thing with waiting to add angels or any other less hardy fish. If you wait then you can be sure your tank is stable and settled and your own fish-keeping habits are established before taking on the keeping of fish that require more diligence on your part and are far less tolerant of upsets in their environment. 

People are cautious and advocate paitence because those methods work. You can advise people to use those methods without having to qualify your statements with, "You probably won't lose too many fish."

As for 1.0 ppm of ammonia not being harmful. I've cycled with fish. Above 0.5 ppm I saw them starting to act differently than they did at lower or no ammonia readings so yes, I consider 1.0 ppm too high. There's also no good reason not to change the water in your aquarium on a regular basis.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

IMO fishless cycling is faster. reason i say this is because you do not have to do water changes like you do when you have fish (to keep them alive) and you can even pump you heater up alittle warmer.
the water changes just disrupt the cycling process.


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

No, they really don't.


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

yeah i agre with ty, the bacteria deffinately grow at a steady rate nothing you do will make make them grow faster except adding a live culture availible at your lfs of a random mature tank you have at home thats why i like the one fish at a time process and to be honest who cares if you loose a danio? i mean i go tuna fishing in the summer thats way nastier than amonia poisoning i mean a danio only lives two years anyway that means you buy a full grown danio he only has a year left as it is who cares if he and his cousin succumb to cycling better than being eaten by a fish hawk


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

well i can agree on taking water out and replacing wouldnt hurt the cycle but gravel vac-ing will disrupt the bacteria.
i must say i def. dont agree on the "who cares if we loose a danio" theory. really if it can clearly be avoided then why even put a fish in that situation. really this can be an on going debate on doing a fishless or fish cycle when either one (when done correctly) will work. if you want *my opinion, fishless cycling is the way* to go as it doesnt put any fish at risk of ammonia burning their gills and internal organs and death as well as the couple bucks you save on buying the fish to put in to start the cycle and the time it takes to properly do water changes to keep the fish alive and comfortable.


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

onefish2fish said:


> well i can agree on taking water out and replacing wouldnt hurt the cycle but gravel vac-ing will disrupt the bacteria.
> i must say i def. dont agree on the "who cares if we loose a danio" theory. really if it can clearly be avoided then why even put a fish in that situation. really this can be an on going debate on doing a fishless or fish cycle when either one (when done correctly) will work. if you want *my opinion, fishless cycling is the way* to go as it doesnt put any fish at risk of ammonia burning their gills and internal organs and death as well as the couple bucks you save on buying the fish to put in to start the cycle and the time it takes to properly do water changes to keep the fish alive and comfortable.


ammonia doesn't cost money?


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

btw i still have all my cycling danios and i didn't have to do daily water changes i just fed them very little i just feel natural cycling is better than pour window cleaner into your tank and word up on the back up sj i'ma have to friend you son haha


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

ammonia in most cases is in the house already if not its only a few bucks for a gallon jug which is enough to cycle a ton of tanks. not performing water changes while doing a cycle with fish is not properly caring for the fish IMO.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

It is possible to allow a tank to mature or cycle naturally while NOT hurting the fish if fish are used. The problem is ,, most folks don't have the patience to do it properly or they begin with too large of fish, too many fish, and they overfeed the fish. Fishless cycling or maturing of a tank eliminates the chance of any of the afore mentioned from happening.Water changes during cycling with fish are a direct result of as stated,,, too many fish, too large of fish, and overfeeding of fish.


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

dude i never said i didn't do water changes i just said id didn't do them every day give me a break


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

I only did 2-3 water changes during cycling, once when my ammonia spiked, and once when my nitrites did.

Fordman and I seem to have the same personality, if I haven't already mentioned that.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Woah, the "who cares if you loose a danio" doesn't work for me either. The whole reason I have fish is because I like them and care about them. Just because a fish isn't "valuable" in terms of monetary value doesn't mean it's life is less imporatant than an expensive fish. And don't just write me off as a sap - fighting (yes, real physical fighting) is one of my favorite things to do. I just don't understand this line of reasoning.

Now, I'm not going to tell you that you are a bad person because you didn't wait 6 months to add angels. As long as the proper precautions are taken I think that's fine. Honestly, I've either seeded or fishless cycled all my aquariums, and none of my fish have EVER been exposed to ammonia at all. I just think that this is the responsible thing to do. If you do choose to cycle with fish, I think it is your responsibility to take the necessary measures to make sure ammonia and nitrite do not exceed .25 ppm. This way permanent harm to the fish can be avoided, and I am fine with it if done correctly.


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

Kim said:


> Woah, the "who cares if you loose a danio" doesn't work for me either. The whole reason I have fish is because I like them and care about them. Just because a fish isn't "valuable" in terms of monetary value doesn't mean it's life is less imporatant than an expensive fish. And don't just write me off as a sap - fighting (yes, real physical fighting) is one of my favorite things to do. I just don't understand this line of reasoning.
> 
> Now, I'm not going to tell you that you are a bad person because you didn't wait 6 months to add angels. As long as the proper precautions are taken I think that's fine. Honestly, I've either seeded or fishless cycled all my aquariums, and none of my fish have EVER been exposed to ammonia at all. I just think that this is the responsible thing to do. If you do choose to cycle with fish, I think it is your responsibility to take the necessary measures to make sure ammonia and nitrite do not exceed .25 ppm. This way permanent harm to the fish can be avoided, and I am fine with it if done correctly.


I understand your reasoning, and agree w/ your opinion on the Danio.


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## Spoon (Feb 22, 2009)

You guys are scaring me. I just set up my 37g after a 3 year break. My last run was with ciclids. Convicts, jewels, green terrors, and a red devil, till the red devil matured. Then it got ugly.
I used some dry bacteria to start the filter, ran that for a week, added some silver dollars and a corey. Today I returned the silvers dollars and bought 4 medium angelfish. 
I haven't done a water change yet, plan on changing out 5g tomorrow. I am using an old aquaclear filter that is more than sufficient for the size of the tank with ammo chips and carbon. I am also running an under gravel filter with a power head. Everybody looks healthy so far. Very active and hungry. I'm gonna cut down on the feeding and check for ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites. Any suggestions? other than removing the angels?


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

if you really and truely cared about fish you wouldn't keep them at all no matter how you slice it it's cruel to take a fish from a million gallon river and put it in any sized tank i mean i'm not out there to hurt fish i mean i bend over backwards to keep mine healthy with everything from live food to keeping a big plant for each fish but i try too keep fish keeping stress low and not sweating the small stuff is deffinately part of that


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

FordMan said:


> if you really and truely cared about fish you wouldn't keep them at all no matter how you slice it it's cruel to take a fish from a million gallon river and put it in any sized tank i mean i'm not out there to hurt fish i mean i bend over backwards to keep mine healthy with everything from live food to keeping a big plant for each fish but i try too keep fish keeping stress low and not sweating the small stuff is deffinately part of that


Haven't thought about it that way but I def. agree.


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## veganchick (Jan 10, 2009)

You can add guppies right after the cycling, it doesn't phase them!


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

Sj45 said:


> Haven't thought about it that way but I def. agree.


Yeah i mean we keep fish because we enjoy it not because they do lol i mean we try to keep them happy but if your not enjoying it than nobody is dude or fish haha


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

FordMan said:


> if you really and truely cared about fish you wouldn't keep them at all no matter how you slice it it's cruel to take a fish from a million gallon river and put it in any sized tank i mean i'm not out there to hurt fish i mean i bend over backwards to keep mine healthy with everything from live food to keeping a big plant for each fish but i try too keep fish keeping stress low and not sweating the small stuff is deffinately part of that


 
disagree. granted their natural habitat is larger, small fish never really leave the shallows. if you properly stock a tank with the correct number of fish and sizes, and properly maintain it there isnt an issue. fish in the wild NEVER see ammonia or nitrite or even high levels of nitrate that is why fishless cycling IMO is the best way to go and afterwards keeping up with routine maintnance water changes to keep levels down.


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

onefish2fish said:


> disagree. granted their natural habitat is larger, small fish never really leave the shallows. if you properly stock a tank with the correct number of fish and sizes, and properly maintain it there isnt an issue. fish in the wild NEVER see ammonia or nitrite or even high levels of nitrate that is why fishless cycling IMO is the best way to go and afterwards keeping up with routine maintnance water changes to keep levels down.


Fish may not see high levels of nitrite, ammonia, nitrate but I disagree w/ the puddle thing, fish will not live in a 10g-200g little space in a huge river, stream, lake their entire lives.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

didnt say anything about puddles. what im talking about is the shallows. if you do things right the fish at home will prob. live longer then in the wild. no natural predators and no worry for food, im sure in some cases cleaner waters with todays pollution and so forth. i did say granted the places they come from are much larger but again if properly stocking a tank there shouldnt be worries.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

Spoon said:


> You guys are scaring me. I just set up my 37g after a 3 year break. My last run was with ciclids. Convicts, jewels, green terrors, and a red devil, till the red devil matured. Then it got ugly.
> I used some dry bacteria to start the filter, ran that for a week, added some silver dollars and a corey. Today I returned the silvers dollars and bought 4 medium angelfish.
> I haven't done a water change yet, plan on changing out 5g tomorrow. I am using an old aquaclear filter that is more than sufficient for the size of the tank with ammo chips and carbon. I am also running an under gravel filter with a power head. Everybody looks healthy so far. Very active and hungry. I'm gonna cut down on the feeding and check for ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites. Any suggestions? other than removing the angels?


 hi Spoon and welcome 
do you have any friends with a tropicl set up ?
you could ask them for a donation of media from their filter to put into yours.
test the water to keep a check on it as you will need to cycle the tank.
i've never heard about dry bacteria,however you do learn something new everyday.
the problem with most fish thees days is that they are over bred and weak.


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## Spoon (Feb 22, 2009)

willow said:


> hi Spoon and welcome
> do you have any friends with a tropicl set up ?
> you could ask them for a donation of media from their filter to put into yours.
> test the water to keep a check on it as you will need to cycle the tank.
> ...


Willow
That was the original plan, but then one of Dad's fish caught the ich. I was going to ask at the pet store but figured they would look at me like I was nuts so I went with this powdered bacteria starter. 
We do have a set up at work with one of those double Whispers I can grab a filter bag from. I'm sure it hasn't been changed in a while. I also have a sponge from an Aquaclear 150 I can stick in their filter for a couple of days, then stick in my 300 under the larger sponge.
I have been changing the water every couple of hours but go back to work tomorrow so it will be down to two changes a day.
Thanks for the reply!


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

Spoon said:


> Willow
> That was the original plan, but then one of Dad's fish caught the ich. I was going to ask at the pet store but figured they would look at me like I was nuts so I went with this powdered bacteria starter.
> We do have a set up at work with one of those double Whispers I can grab a filter bag from. I'm sure it hasn't been changed in a while. I also have a sponge from an Aquaclear 150 I can stick in their filter for a couple of days, then stick in my 300 under the larger sponge.
> I have been changing the water every couple of hours but go back to work tomorrow so it will be down to two changes a day.
> Thanks for the reply!


2 water changes/day is sufficient, 25% or so. Just don't take all the media from your office.


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## Spoon (Feb 22, 2009)

Sj45 said:


> 2 water changes/day is sufficient, 25% or so. Just don't take all the media from your office.


Lol. It has two filter cartridges in the filter. I'll just change one out. 
25% at a time? or over the corse of the day?


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

one fish 2 is completely wrong many fish experience not only high ammonia at times in the wild they also experience high acid levels for example south east asian streams in fall become very poluted by decaying leaves that is one o the reason anabantid fish have a labrinth


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Well, I have to side w/ OF2F on this issue. In the wild we are talking big rivers, streams, large bodys of water, etc and you know the old say, "The solution to pollution is dilution". When faced with high levels of ammonia or acid fish can just swim off in another direction. Out tanks are a very confined space and I feel pristine water quality is in order and should be maintained that way. JMHO...


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

Spoon said:


> Lol. It has two filter cartridges in the filter. I'll just change one out.
> 25% at a time? or over the corse of the day?


25% each time, spread out though, atleast 6 hrs. separate.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

aunt kymmie said:


> Well, I have to side w/ OF2F on this issue. In the wild we are talking big rivers, streams, large bodys of water, etc and you know the old say, "The solution to pollution is dilution". When faced with high levels of ammonia or acid fish can just swim off in another direction. Out tanks are a very confined space and I feel pristine water quality is in order and should be maintained that way. JMHO...


 I agree 100 percent . In a glass box of water there are no tides such as found in the oceans, no currents such as found in streams, and no rains to dilute or carry away pollutants. Water changes in the aquarium are the way to keep healthy fish healthy and should be done on a regular basis.;-)


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## Spoon (Feb 22, 2009)

Sj45 said:


> 25% each time, spread out though, atleast 6 hrs. separate.


 
I missed this mornings water change but did a 25% change when I got home tonight. I also took a packed filter cartridge from work and stuffed it under the sponge in my aquaclear. Also removed the bag of ammochips/charcoal from my filter. 

Thanks for the help!


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

Spoon said:


> I missed this mornings water change but did a 25% change when I got home tonight. I also took a packed filter cartridge from work and stuffed it under the sponge in my aquaclear. Also removed the bag of ammochips/charcoal from my filter.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


your welcome, best of luck

sounds like your on your way towards success.


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

many fish can't swim away like the south asia back water streams i was trying to describe another example is the devils hole pup fish many of these fish live in near puddles between rain storms i'm not advocating poor water quality i'm just making the point that there are many species of fish that can tolerate low levels of toxins


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

In my mind,, Tolerating low levels of toxins and Thriving in same,, are two very different animals.I have seen common bullhead catfish burrow down into the mud in otherwise dried up ponds only to emerge after rains have come and replenished the water. In the aquarium,,, It becomes critical that toxins are removed and kept at a minimum in order for fish to thrive. Even moderate or low levels of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates affect the ability of fishes blood to absorb/hold oxygen thereby increasing respiration and stress levels which some ,, including myself, associate with increase in suceptibility to pathogens,bacterial infections,fungul infections and or parasites. Best prevention is to train ones efforts not so much on keeping fish, but rather on keeping water.;-)


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

we were talking about the four weeks during cycling here not the entire life of the tank my point was some fish can handle unstable conditions for the four weeks your tank cycles.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

just because a fish can "handle" conditions doesnt mean you need to put them through them. in alot of cases fish will be alive but will not thrive. 
during the cycling process, fish exposed to high ammonia/nitrite levels experience internal damage and gill burn which leads to a shorter life span. they will also show faded colors and have greater risk of disease.


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## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

I've tried fiashless method few times and with fish. I had experienced different results every time as far as duration with fishless cycle. I personaly would do cycling with fish (average of 6 weeks)w/o exposing them to toxic levels of NH3, NO2 which can be easily controlled with amt of fish and food given and also water changes when necessary. Besides, once have one well established tank, can cycled new tank with fish in no time w/o so called mini-cycle. Have done it for aoround 4 decades. When setting up Breeding/rearing/hospital/ quarnatine tank, who has time to wait. Would use water (50-75%) and some gravel from old tank, then it is done as long as avoid overloading bioload. In any tank, however cycled, should avoid overloading at once anyway, IMO.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

FordMan said:


> many fish can't swim away like the south asia back water streams i was trying to describe another example is the devils hole pup fish many of these fish live in near puddles between rain storms i'm not advocating poor water quality i'm just making the point that there are many species of fish that can tolerate low levels of toxins


 For every fish that you can think of that can tolerate low levels of toxins (there's a reason they are called toxins) I can name a dozen or more that don't. It is possible to use fish for allowing an immature tank to mature or (cycle) without toxic levels of ammonia or nitrites along with fishless method as well. It makes no sense to do otherwise IMHO.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Why would you want to expose your fish to something harmful or stressful if it can be avoided? Sorry, I just had tro put my 2 cents in.


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## FordMan (Jan 18, 2009)

you guys do understand how they catch and breed aquarium fish right? you want to talk about stress check out a fish breedery sometime and to 1077 thats why i was suggesting fish that can tolerate toxins ps still got those damn cycling danios going on 2 and a half years now waaay past their wild life expectansy they must be being preserved by all those toxins they were exposed too HAHA


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

FordMan said:


> you guys do understand how they catch and breed aquarium fish right? you want to talk about stress check out a fish breedery sometime and to 1077 thats why i was suggesting fish that can tolerate toxins ps still got those damn cycling danios going on 2 and a half years now waaay past their wild life expectansy they must be being preserved by all those toxins they were exposed too HAHA


lol.


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## Spoon (Feb 22, 2009)

Been about 2 weeks since adding the donor fiter cartridge.4 weeks since adding water. 3 weeks since adding fish. Donor cartridge was removed about a week ago. Doing daily water changes, 25%. Ammonia levels holding at 0, Nitrite 1. Angels are healthy and aggressive @ 78 degrees, hiding at 76. 
About to set up a 55 for the angels. The plan is to get it cycled before moving the angels.


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

Spoon said:


> Been about 2 weeks since adding the donor fiter cartridge.4 weeks since adding water. 3 weeks since adding fish. Donor cartridge was removed about a week ago. Doing daily water changes, 25%. Ammonia levels holding at 0, Nitrite 1. Angels are healthy and aggressive @ 78 degrees, hiding at 76.
> About to set up a 55 for the angels. The plan is to get it cycled before moving the angels.


Nitrite at 1 is too high for fish. Water Changes...


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## Spoon (Feb 22, 2009)

Yeah, that's what I thought. But it seems funny, always 1 on the nose, everyday. I am going to test my tap water today.


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