# EB ram fry HELP!!



## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Hi, I have screwed up every time trying to breed these guys. I finally got 13 wigglers, I know not that much, but the most I ever got. I am super excited!!!! But I have no idea what to feed these guys when they are that small. They are super tiny!! The last time, first bits were too big. Any suggestions?

And when should I start feeding them, some are already swimming a bit, but they just hatched yesterday. They were not moving yesterday, but had little tails sticking out. They seem to be attempting to swim, more restingting and wiggling, I guess. The temp is a bit high, 82F, but it was very warm yesterday outside. It seems to be happening faster, and I just can't tell with these guys, they are too small to see clearly!!!! 

Here's some pics, maybe you can see more than I can?

Any advice is highly appreciated, I don't want to kill these fry!!!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The parents generally take care of the fry for the fish few days unless you've got bad parents.

I believe (and don't quote me) they can eat microworms or vinegar eels. Also baby Brine Shrimp will do as well. Here's a quote about rams from another site I was just looking on: "The fry don't eat until they're actively swimming, so if they're hatched but just wiggling around, you have some time, as they probably have a yolk sack." and another quote: "Till you can get something else, do what Just suggested- grind up some flakes. If you have a syringe or eyedropper, mix the flakes with some water and then use the eyedropper(whatever) to squirt some right in front of the fry."


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Thanks for the response

They *are *bad parents, and it doesn't help that I have two females and a male in the tank. I've tried to leave them raise them on their own, but it only works when I steal the eggs. The problem is when the are free swimming, even those 'First bits' are too big. It's like a powder. They are still wigglers, at least yesterday they were, so I have a little bit of time 

I will take a trip to the LFS and see if they have anything to suggest, maybe liquid food?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, from my research you can use Liquid foods although not sure what is good and what isn't! And besides, we're in very different places so we may not have the same foods too.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

What about trying live foods like daphnia pulex or even smaller daphnia moina . 
When I had angel eggs that were less then 24hrs from hatching in a 10g QT less then a day before I was leaving for 2 weeks I had to come up with some way for them to feed themselves . I sprinkled some green water culture on a near by leaf . That's what I use to feed daphnia that I feed nano fish with. Only makes sense I use feeder food for smaller fish . They were all free swimming and alive except for 2-3bodies when I got back 2weeks later . By then they were big enough for baby brine. 


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Ok, I have some daphnia, I will try the smallest ones, and some microworms, I never had a problem feeding angelfry, but these guys are just soooooo tiny!!!!! Wish I had some infusoria, I feed the daphnia powderized/melted shrimplet food.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Products like Phyto feast that are marketed for salt water filter feeders work in freshwater very well IMO . I also keep a bottle of that in my fridge to gut load daphnia . Maybe would help with teeny fry also . I'm pretty sure they're capable of finding microscopic food in your water but adding that would also help beef up your microscopic food supply . 


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Ok, awesome!!!


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

So an update. 

Has it been a month and a bit? or are my dates screwed up? There were 13 free swimmers for a while. Then, suddenly, I was down to 9, then 5, now 1.

I fed them 'first bites' by hikari and squished them into almost a liquid (adding water). I left a few bites floating on top. I don't know if I just suck at raising these guys or what? They just never seemed that healthy, or eating really well, except the one still alive. 

The pair have spawned again now, I stole the eggs last night and set it up the same as last time, but they all (I think) succombed to fungus 

I think my powerhead shifted a bit and there was not enough flow on the eggs. Sigh.

I will have to wait for the next time, but at least I still have one fry, better than none 

Even a month later, I guess, (went fast) they still don't look big enough to eat microworms. I tried decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, but they were too big. The fry are just so damn tiny!!!!!


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Holy crap!! I *did *screw up my dates, they spawned 7-10 days later!!!


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

I left the eggs with the parents this time. About 10 eggs turned bluish. When it was about time for them to hatch and become wigglers, they seemed to have disappeared. The rock was not cleaned fully until 2 days later (might have been my nerite?)

I looked everywhere, because I thought they may have moved the wigglers. I see nothing. I will try stealing the eggs next time again, this time maybe with some methylene blue.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Methylene blue will help the eggs for sure. I'm pretty certain your rams ate their eggs. Rams are notoriously bad parents . 

There is a way to hatch the eggs using airline tubing . I honestly can't recall the whole process as it's pretty ridiculous .. But it's what is needed to raise the ram fry. I recall they don't take prepared foods at all.. Only microworms and vinegar eels as their first foods. I wish I remembered more to tell you .. 


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## angelcraze (Aug 31, 2013)

Well, I have to wait again now till next spawn. All I have are micro worms though, I didn't know what vinegar eels were till as of late. I'll keep trying, and thanks for all your help, just wanted to pass on any info to others.


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