# Crazy fish, commiting suicide?



## Geisha (Aug 5, 2006)

yeah! i needed to get the attention, because i need an answer as soon as possible!!!!

ok, we've had a 10 gallon tank for about a year. we only have goldfish, 2 algea eaters, and an african dwarf frog. they've been together since the beggining so, i guess it's not because of each other. also the tank has 2 filters and 2 air pumps.

so, about a month ago one of our goldfish strated to go crazy!! he swam really fast and was all over the place. so he started to bump into other fish and into the glass, but THEN he strated to jump and bumped into the light up above. we started to get worried. it lasted for about 2, 2 1/2 weeks. he would hit himself do hard that he would "pass out" for a little bit and then continue his crazy rampide.... 

well, then he died.... but now our concern is that now ALL of the other fish started to act out, and there is one that grows by the minute, so if he swims too fast we WILL end up killing himself!!

please tell me what i should do!!!

also the last time we cleaned the tank (after the death) we found these small insects in one of the filters, they were REALLY small they jumped or flew dunno... they were in only on one of the filters. someone told me that they looked like "fruit flies"???

PLESE TELL ME ANYTHING, WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THEM ALL GO!!!!


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Welcome.
First of all, the goldfish is far too big for a 10 gallons tank. A pair is better off in a 40 gallons tank. You need to buy a biggest tank you can afford as soon as possible.
I assume the algae eaters are the Chinese Algae Eaters. Scientific name is in "Freshwater Species" section. It's posted in the Cyprinids thread for reference. For quick info, pls avoid them. They grow to 25 cm, can suck the other fish's mucous membrane and even eat smaller fish. While juveniles can eat algae, they'll lose the taste for algae as they mature. This is the stage where they develop a taste for mucous membranes which can severely damage your other fish.
Is the African Dwarf Frog a clawed one? Avoid them as they can be predatory.
What kind of filter do yo use? The brand name? Some filters are of good quality but some can be bad.


> so, about a month ago one of our goldfish strated to go crazy!! he swam really fast and was all over the place. so he started to bump into other fish and into the glass, but THEN he strated to jump and bumped into the light up above. we started to get worried. it lasted for about 2, 2 1/2 weeks. he would hit himself do hard that he would "pass out" for a little bit and then continue his crazy rampide....
> 
> well, then he died.... but now our concern is that now ALL of the other fish started to act out, and there is one that grows by the minute, so if he swims too fast we WILL end up killing himself!!


Pls consider buying a test kit. You need to test the pH, GH(General Hardness), KH(Carbonate Hardness), ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Post the exact figures. API Master Test Kit is your best option.



> also the last time we cleaned the tank (after the death) we found these small insects in one of the filters, they were REALLY small they jumped or flew dunno... they were in only on one of the filters. someone told me that they looked like "fruit flies"???


I doubt that would be fruit flies. How do you clean your tank? Do you clean them by starting from scratch? If so, it's a no-no. You are repeating the nitrogen cycle again and again. Ammonia produced by fish wastes is converted by bacteria into nitrites, then finally into nitrates which is the most harmless of the three.
Clean your filter media(floss, foam, etc) using the tank water everytime you do a water change. Avoid using hot water and detergents.
Do a water change for 3 times a week. When I say water change, you vacuum the gravel with a siphon and change the water with a new treated water. Treat your tapwater with dechlorinator to eliminate chlorine, chloramine and other heavy metals. Those are very dangerous to the fish.
Another rule: Never mix tropical fish with coldwater fish.
Goldfish=coldwater fish
Chinese Algae Eater=tropical fish
They won't thrive together due to different requirements especially when temp is concerned.

Pls post as many questions as you can so you can sort everything well.
Good luck.

If you have time, you can read my sticky: http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=106
Hope it helps.


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## Geisha (Aug 5, 2006)

thank you so much for answering so quickly!!!
well, i'll take pictures of them tomorrow.... i really don't know whant kind of algea eaters they are... and the frog... i think she's got claws... but she's so harmless!!! (she does yoga all the time!!! for real!)

well, now we're concered that it was our fault for cleaning the tank the wrong way... we actually just got a filter (yet another one) for the gravel... dunno, it's designed to clean them constantly.... 

ok, so how should we take the chlorine out of the water? should we do it over night in a bucket? or does it it takes a couple of minutes only? 

also i didn't really understand the filter cleaning thing... i don't really do the cleaning part (i'm in charge of the water, and of the fish only, no mucous please!) but i really want to learn .. and we've done research... but apparently we failed there too.....

so thanks again for you help. and i'll post pics tomorrow!!


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

> well, now we're concered that it was our fault for cleaning the tank the wrong way... we actually just got a filter (yet another one) for the gravel... dunno, it's designed to clean them constantly....


Filters aren't enough to make your tank clean. No harm can be done when you do a 10% water change 3 times a week.


> ok, so how should we take the chlorine out of the water? should we do it over night in a bucket? or does it it takes a couple of minutes only?


Methods:
1. Use a dechlorinator(available in your pet shops). This is already instant. After treating the water, just pour it to your tank.
2. Let the water stay in the bucket overnight.
3. Aerate the water vigorously using air pump for an hour or two.
As chlorine is a gas, it should be removed by the use of the last 2 methods. Dechlorinators still work so you may as well start storing dechlorinators for your water changes.


> (i'm in charge of the water, and of the fish only, no mucous please!)


The mucous membrane is a protective covering of the fish's skin. If it is damaged, then they become prone to diseases.


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## Geisha (Aug 5, 2006)

i can't believe how ignorant we were!!!    :x 
thanks! we will try to get back to you with more questions! i can't believe we didn't ask for help when the first one went berserk!
thank you sooooooo much for your help, we will test the water tomorrow, plese keep on helping us (i don't want to open a thread everytime we have a question on this matter..... i imagine it'll be bothersome)

anyway. i'll post details and the pics tomorrow

THANKS!!!


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

No problem, Geisha.
I'll gladly help you if you have problems.


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## joeshmoe (Aug 2, 2006)

I would get that Chinese Algae Eater out there. Mine killed all my goldfish .


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Geisha, pls compare your algae eater with the following pics. If it's a CAE, it's best to sell/return them to the lfs(local fish store) before they start producing problems like bullying other fish.
Chinese Algae Eater(CAE)








Siamese Algae Eater(SAE)








Siamese Flying Fox


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## Tracy (Aug 4, 2006)

I agree with Blue. The algae eaters do like to prey on the goldfish slime. I prefer the Plecostamus for this reason, and yes I have kept one alive, with goldfish, and no heater (the water was about 72 degrees). A larger tank for your goldfish is always a good idea. My boyfriend had a catfish that "committed suicide" by swimming straight up and into the light a few times as well. Disturbing, but interesting.


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## Geisha (Aug 5, 2006)

well, it took long but here are the pics... these are the two figgest goldfish we have in the tank.....









here's my african dwarf frog









and here's a pic of one of the algea eaters. the other one looks the same but is about 2 or 3 times bigger.... btw this is really small









ALSO, be bought aquariums for dummies. and we thought that 2 of the diseases listed kinda matched our problem.
1. Swim bladder disease
2. frightened fish

we used to turn on the lights without "giving notice" so we started to do as the book says and we've seen improvement. but we don't want to leave thinking that everything will be ok. so.....

CAN ANYONE PLESE GIVE US A REALLY DETEAILED WAY IN WICH WE SHOULD CHANGE THE WATER AND CLEAN THE TANK AND FILTER??!!!
we would really appresiate it. the book doesn't really answer some of the q's for example if we shouldn't change 100% of the water..... does that mean NEVER.... ... please explain every single thing..... 

thanks before hand

*I edited your post. I will not allow anything that is obscene.
Thank you,
Blue


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

> we used to turn on the lights without "giving notice" so we started to do as the book says and we've seen improvement. but we don't want to leave thinking that everything will be ok. so.....


It's best that you turn the room lights on first before turning on the aquarium lights. This wil minimize stress due to shock from sudden changes.


> CAN ANYONE PLESE GIVE US A REALLY DETEAILED WAY IN WICH WE SHOULD CHANGE THE WATER AND CLEAN THE TANK AND FILTER??!!!


Pls do not post in caps. It can be a sign of grouchiness.








Do a daily wayer change of about 10%. Gravel vacuuming should be included. Scrape the aquarium glass for algae weekly. Then clean the filter media monthly or when necessary using the tank water.
Pls read the Aquarium Maintenance Procedure sticky.


> we would really appresiate it. the book doesn't really answer some of the q's for example if we shouldn't change 100% of the water..... does that mean NEVER....


Books are not always reliable. It's best to ask advice from someone who has experiences. Don't even follow the lfs' advice unless you know what they are talking about.

Your algae eater is a common plec. Get rid of it. Stick with the bristlenose or clown plec. Common plecs can grow to 30 cm thus outgrowing your tank.


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

im not an expert on fish but i did read a book about it and the behavore you were describing on your goldfish sounds like your fish have a crustacean infestation thes are visible to the naked eye and are about the size of a small fruit fly they peirce the fish to feed the cuts on the fish will become infected and the fish will die. the symtoms of this infestation are the fish will swim erraticaly rub against objects and jump you need to remove the infected fish emmediatly remove a quarium decore and emers in a 2 persent bleach sulution to kill remaning eggs no need to feer your fish can be saved a dib for 3 to 10 minutes in a saltwater bath is nessesary to kill the crabs the dip is long unuff to kill the parasites yet to short to kill your fish im not sure the exact salt rashio of salt to water but you can find this on the intenet i dont agree with blue i do NOT belive this has anything to do with your water quality just take a close look at your fish and if youse small parasites emedeitly seek a sulution :!:


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Trreherd, what you said are external parasites. Those are Lernaea(anchorworms), Argulus and fish leech. Common in ponds but not in aquariums. However it can be transmitted by using things already used in the pond and moving some fish from the pond to the tank.


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

a parasitic infecion would also explain the insects in your filter im sorry blue but i dont think this problem has anything to do with the way they are running there tank


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Not unless cycling is applied, trreherd. It may also happen to the fish.
And those parasites are NOT insects.
Only dragonfly, damselfly nymphs and water boatmen are to be considered as insects.

Unless Geisha got her fish from the pond or possibly from a friend's pond, external parasites are not possible.


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

dont you belive it should still be tooken in consideration? all they need to do is take a look


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## trreherd (Aug 7, 2006)

true they are not insects but she described them as looking like insects i was not saying the parasites were insects if thats what you thought


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Very well. But the word "insect" is not a correct way to describe the parasites. Better yet, it is "external parasites" as this is the aquaristical term.
The question then is, does Geisha know anything about the external parasites? I'll consider the word "insect" as part of the clue.
It is probably possible that what Geisha had seen was the nymphs of either dragonfly or damselfly. Water boatmen can also be brought in easily through the use of equipments or plants used in the pond.


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## Geisha (Aug 5, 2006)

well, thanks for all the responses!! well about those things insects or parasites. i did take a picute of them, but they are sooooo small that you can't really see them. 
but i will say this: there are 2 kinds. one is white and jumps/flies dunno which. and then there are this worm like things in/on the filter bag... you know the white thing you put inside the filter? well ,they're small i couldn't see well but i was told they moved (whether they are alive or not, they weren't there before.)
also i bough all the fish at pet retailers, no connection with outside water, ponds, but i do keep my aquarium stuff in the baseman, with can be real humid, and water gets in when it rains...... 
well, i had forgoten about those things any info is appreciated.

thanks before hand

Pao



ps= did i say something that ofended someone in an earlier post? sorry!!!! wasn't my intention


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Geisha said:


> ps= did i say something that ofended someone in an earlier post? sorry!!!! wasn't my intention


No, Geisha. I just edited it to prevent other members from repeating it to any other threads. Pls don't call yourself in words that are considered "very bad" for the forum. I understand your frustrations but calling yourself with anything can be rather pointless.


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