# Sea Dragons ???



## matt_bet

hi,
this post is about sea dragons, im not sure if they are found in america but im from australia and they are common around my area and was wondering if anyone has had success with keeping them and what methods of feeding do you use.

Amazing to watch in the wild.

















Its a shame also when they are found dead by blue bottles, happens really easily for them as well.


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## Lupin

They look like seahorses to me.:mrgreen:


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## Lupin

Thread moved to appropriate section as these specimens are neither corals nor invertebrates.:wink2:


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## caferacermike

Not quite as gorgeous as that. We have some very plain pipe fishes. The ones you showed are not even legal for purchase.


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## Lupin

caferacermike said:


> The ones you showed are not even legal for purchase.


Mike, did you mean if they sell them, they will be prosecuted and fined?:blink: Those specimens must be something else.:crazy: Like some species of aros which are still under CITES protection.


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## dprUsh83

WOW! If those were legalized it'd be worth going saltwater just to keep them!! :lol:


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## Melissa

I have never seen those fish over here, not even on the internet. Im sure overthere there are very interesting fish that we here in the us never see.


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## Lupin

dprUsh83 said:


> WOW! If those were legalized it'd be worth going saltwater just to keep them!! :lol:


What?!:blink: Stick with FW, Danny, I tell you.:wink2: SW is not your thing.:tongue:


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## caferacermike

USMC I have a link somewhere to a few people that legally keep the dragons. Gorgeous. I believe the cost is about $3,000 each when available. Not to bad considering I spent about $2,500 for my kangaroo and that's not even protected. My black island aldabra tortoise (galopagos) set me back $5,000 when I was 18. (You guessed right, I spend more money on pets than on things like cars.)


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## matt_bet

you spent how much on a kangaroo, god do you know how many there are in australia. and $3000 for the seadragon, thats what there called and they are common over here, we see them dead all the time. are you guys from america? cause your payen heaps :shock: :shock:


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## Lupin

matt_bet said:


> are you guys from america? cause your payen heaps :shock: :shock:


Hi Matt.:wave:

Mike is from Texas, USA, yes. He just works hard just to get huge savings.:mrgreen:


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## matt_bet

lol :lol:


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## Melissa

Wow CRM that is alot of money. I dont think i could spent $3000 on afish of invert.


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## caferacermike

Mattbet. keep in mind that they are a protected species. Just because you see them all the time does not mean they are easy to obtain in the hobby.

I know, I'll trade you 2 of those sea dragons for 2 L046 Zebra plecos. Let me know. I might be willing to trade off my 13" blue eyed panaque for a couple.


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## matt_bet

sorry, even though we see them alot it is an endangered species is aust and i think hat would be a bad idea.
had never heard of the zebra pleco before so did google search and it says that they are endangered and trying to repopulate its species, is that what you do or are they just a very exspensive fish because of that.
matt


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## Lupin

matt_bet said:


> sorry, even though we see them alot it is an endangered species is aust and i think hat would be a bad idea.
> had never heard of the zebra pleco before so did google search and it says that they are endangered and trying to repopulate its species, is that what you do or are they just a very exspensive fish because of that.
> matt


Zebra plecs are indeed under the list of endangered species, however, recently, there is a deluge of zebra plecs from private breeders as claimed by some people online. The problem is most breeders sell them at a high price(higher than what they should be now) so some people are trying to encourage others to simply cut down the price by half but the disadvantage lies in the irregular selling by selling the zebras again at double of what you paid for.:sarcastic:
They are still very expensive. Let alone a juvenile of ablut 4 cm costing $100 or more.:blink:


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## bettababy

Here I have seen the leafy seadragons and weedy seadragons in person in only 2 places. The Shedd Aquarium in Chicago keeps a few, and the Minnesota Zoo where we got married has a few. They are said to be extremely difficult to feed and keep well fed, and are indeed now protected. Here in the USA a permit is needed to own/posess one, and it is strictly enforced. If you try to order one from the internet, everyone must have the proper permits to keep them. The imports are getting tougher on them all the time, as is law enforcement.
After seeing them in person, I wish it could have been in their wild habitat. They are incredible animals, and they fascinate me. I found out about the legality of it all when our store tried to purchase them. We wanted them as display only, and still were not allowed.
After talking to people who take care of the ones I saw, they are, indeed, a difficult animal to keep long term, but once settled in well, they tend to thrive if needs are kept up with. 
Thanks for posting those pics!!!!
As for the zebra plecos, I've traced the expense behind them because I have wanted one for a long time but could never afford one. It is in part because they are endangered, but also because people are greedy, and others niave enough to let them get away with it. In captivity they are becoming plentiful, and because they are endangered everyone is breeding them. They are not difficult to breed if its done right. I have a friend who breeds them, is getting $300/fish right now, and that's selling them at 2 inches or less. I refuse to pay the price and have been content with waiting for it to drop before getting one from him.


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## caferacermike

Also I was joking if anyone thought I was serious. I know that any plecs I send to OZ will be destroyed by customs.. So sad over there.


The difference between what is going on with the blue eyes and zebra plecs is that Brazil is refusing to allow an exports. There was a case where they sold raw rubber products and some rubber plants to China. Brazil was the largest rubber producer in the world. Of course the Chinese cloned the trees and figured out how to produce and work with rubber. Soon after nobody wanted to buy rubber from Brazil. Brazil was very upset and decided to not allow anyone access to their products. Not to mention the militia protecting the illegal drug manufacturers of S.America. I can't spell it correctly but it's something like farkwi. They disguise their purposes by hunting collectors. If you go poking around for plecos in a stream they kill you for "poaching". The main reason is to keep everyone in fear and away fromt he operations. Killing anyone found int he jungles collecting, be it animals or plants, is under the guise that they are environmentalists. It's been working for years. I have a friend that lives in Venezuela for 6 months every year. Mark was the guy that got me hooked on plecos. He says he can still find a blue eyes here and there on the fringes of the territories. 

The protections are different between the plecos and the sea dragons. It's the same type of permitting I needed when I obtained my Galapagos tortoise.


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## sayoko

Seadragons are endangered so even if you were to buy one, it would be taking away from the wild population...


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## caferacermike

Keep in mind that the only ones available are CAPTIVE BRED. None are being taken from the wild anymore. I need to find that site where the shop owners talk about the experience of buying theirs from a zoo.


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## matt_bet

relax peoples, i only made this post to talk about them and find out what there like, no intention of keeping or capturing and selling.


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## bettababy

I think everyone here has the same concern... that maybe not you, but someone else reading this post may get the wrong ideas if it's not completely spelled out. This is not something that just anyone can keep, raise successfully, or get permits for.
The information about them that is easily available is quite sparse, and not enough is generally known about them to give anyone any kind of detailed information.
I would suggest anyone who wants more detailed info than is already here, try calling or writing to the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, IL or the Minnesota Zoo, or some other facility that currently has them.
These are the people who know the detailed answers.


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## gymnothorax

a customer of mine claimed that he had 3 small leafy seadragons hitchhiking in a shipment of macroalgae that he ordered offline a few years back, but none of them made it......


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