# My Betta has lost half his tail!! Updated pics



## sgorny (Jun 11, 2008)

I'm pretty sure it's fin rot (although I have no experience with it), and not fin loss. It's definitely ratty, not cleanly chomped, and has slightly reddish/brown edges to some of it. And he's in the tank by himself, so unless he's suddenly started chewing on his tail at night...

It was fine on Thursday, and on Monday? Half gone! He seems to still be in good spirits, doing his little "food" dance, and flaring at himself energetically in the mirror. 

I tested the water parameters using one of those Six Quick Dip test sticks on Monday. Results: 
Nitrate: 0 
Nitrite: 0 
Total Hardness: Soft 
Chlorine: 0 
Total Alkalinity: ~60 
pH: ~7.0 
Ammonia: 0 
Temp: 80 deg 

He is in a 3 gallon Eclipse tank, I do 25-30% water changes once a week. About 3 weeks ago, I had a little accident with the gravel vacuum. I got distracted as I was using it to remove water, and he swam up into it, thrashed about, and knocked off a few scales on his back by his top fin, on one side fin, and above one of his eyes. I replaced the water, added StressCoat (which I do every time I add water), and he recovered, or seemed to, in about 7-10 days. But then I noticed his gill area on one side seemed a little pale, then noticed later that day (yesterday) his tail was half gone! 

I haven't seen him biting his tail at all. And he is in a tank all his own, with one fabric plant, 4 plastic ones, and a small bridge decoration, and none of them seem sharp. 

I thought I was keeping the water clear (using a turkey baster to pick up his poops, as they seemed very solid & clumpy), but was not really vacuuming the gravel. When I did it yesterday, as I was going to clean out his tank totally (because of his bad fins, I was going to get rid of the gravel, clean everything, and use his tank to treat him), I noticed that there was quite a bit of yuck coming up from the gravel. 

But I checked the water temp, got him out into a small container, drained all the water, threw out the gravel (all per a number of websites I read), cleaned the tank and all decorations with a scrubber & water (damaging the bridge, btw), then put him back in with just a few glass pebbles in the bottom, his bridge, the fabric plant, and two plastic ones. 

Then I added Maracyn-TC (diluted in 3 oz water, 1 oz put into tank), added 3 tsp aquarium salt, mixed up water the same temp as before, added StressCoat to condition it, let it run for about 5 minutes, then put him back in. 

He seems to be doing okay today, but then he seemed okay yesterday, even minus 1/2 his tail! 

The tail seems to look the same, at least no more loss, but there is still a rust coloration along the veining of the tail. 

Here are some pics of Big Blue:
Here is a pic of his tail before hand, on May 6th, 2008.









And here he was Monday, July 21, 2008:









And here is is July 22, 2008, after one day of treatment:









It's been recommended since I nuked his tank, screwing up the cycle, that I should do 100% water changes every day. But do I have to worry about diluting his medication if I do that? Should I just monitor for problems, and then change if things get out of balance? The Eclipse aquarium has the Bio Wheel, which the paperwork *said* wouldn't hurt (I hope), but I didn't add any bacterial culture in when I replaced the water, because of the antibiotics, and because the BioWheel should be fully set up...

Also, if I do 100% water changes, doesn't that mean I have to catch him and get him out of the tank? And won't that stress him more? Can I do 50-65% changes instead, so I can leave him in there without netting him?

I'm so worried. I probably should have just really rinsed out the gravel good, put it back in, along with this usual surroundings, so he wouldn't be stressed, but I *thought* I was doing the right thing. And it had been recommended by a few websites...

And do I need gravel in the bottom of my tank? I know it is a place for the good bacteria to grow, but if I have the Marineland Eclipse BioWheel system, which is supposed to build up that bacteria on the fins of the wheel, to detoxify the water... how important *is* the gravel?

Even after nuking his tank, I dip-tested it again, and all parameters were good (same as before).

Can anyone either reassure me I'm doing the right thing, or give me more advice? Me, and Big Blue, would really appreciate it!


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## JMeenen (Apr 7, 2008)

It is inteesting that only the tail fin is affected....all other fins look fine.


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## JMeenen (Apr 7, 2008)

he developed fin rot after he was injured in the gravel vac right?


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## sgorny (Jun 11, 2008)

He was injured in those first photos, on May 5th. The problem with the tail fin didn't come up until Monday, July 20th.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Uhhh no... Never change 100% of the water, and never 'nuke' your tank. You've lost all beneficial bacteria and now on top of fin rot your going to have water quality issues. 

Who the heck recommended that since you messed the cycle up to do 100% water changes? Never listen to this person again. 

maracin or maracyn II are good for fin rot. When I had fin rot, I used API liquid fungus cure, its used for preventing fungus on eggs. So its a pretty gentle medication. 

And your going to need a liquid test kit because strips are inaccurate. I recommend API liquid master test kit with ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pH.


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## JMeenen (Apr 7, 2008)

Possibly when he got tangled up in the vac he got a small tear in his tail ..the as you know they rest and also drag thir tails along the gravel bottom picking up bactera from the gravel floor..resulting in a bacterial infection at the tear site causing finrot. The madications can also stress your fish out further....Do your 25% water changes every other day..use a SMALL amount of aquarium salt.


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## sgorny (Jun 11, 2008)

I now wish I'd been smarter about the gravel, and simply rinsed it and cleaned everything, but I fell victim to poor information.

How much aquarium salt should I use? I was told 1 tsp per gallon for sick fish. I didn't use any before.

And do I need to use gravel in the bottom, if there is a BioWheel? I thought the beneficial bacteria grew there.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

You don't really need to add aquarium salt, since we are not treating for ich or anything I can't really see a need to add any salt. I suppose a teaspoon wouldn't hurt, but not per gallon. Just add a teaspoon for the whole tank.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

He looks like he had the starting of fin rot even in the first pictures. I agree on the 25% every other day changes. When you are looking for a medication, choose one that treats gram negative bacterial infections and dose as recommended. Do not use salt during treatment, as most medications already contain salt and it is easy to overdose. Watch the water during treatment though, and if you see any excessive buildup (like happens with melafix, do not use this) do a water change. It is not the gravel that caused this problem, but the waste that had built up inside it. This will happen regardless of whether you have gravel or not. In fact, I like gravel because on the days that it does not get vacuumed the waste will settle into it and not come in direct contact with your fish's fins. An easy preventative for fin rot is to do regular water changes and vacuum the gravel at the same time. I do 25% weekly changes. Luckily, you still have your bio wheel so that should help although you threw out all of the gravel. That is...as long as you didn't let it dry out. Keep us posted and I wish you and your betta the best of luck!


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## JMeenen (Apr 7, 2008)

I would suggest either one or the other Aquarium salt OR Medication but not together


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## sgorny (Jun 11, 2008)

*He's worse*

I've been treating him for 3 full days now. I had convinced myself that at even if it wasn't better, at least it wasn't worse...

Until this afternoon. I noticed that (I think) his tail is more moth-eaten, and... now it's at the tip of his (dorsal? top?) fin, too.

And when I called Petsmart, PetsNPals, and Petco, they all recommended Melafix or Pimafix. I told them that that was tea tree oil, and would help if they were healing, but not if it was getting worse. They didn't seem to have any suggestion, except Erythromycin (and I could tell the girl had walked to the section, and was just looking through the medications, not talking from experience).

I asked them all if they had Jungle "Fungus Eliminator", and none of them had it. Two tried to suggest "Fungus Clear", which, unless I'm mistaken, is used to remove fungus from stuff in the tank, not from the fish. So I don't know what to do.

Today I did a 30% water change, vacuuming the bottom of the tank really well. There was more poop than I thought, hiding under the bridge. Because I had added 3 tsp of aquarium salt before (1 per gal), I didn't add any more, as I got the feeling I might have overdone it, although that was the recommended dosage per most websites I saw. Then I added in the tetracycline.

I took some pictures... I worry so much about him! And the problem, he is my fish at work, and I'm not supposed to go back in until Monday. I have staff that feeds him on Friday, and occasionally once on the weekend. But I don't want to go back and find him dead! 

I have a staff member feeding and adding the tetracycline tomorrow, and I'm considering driving over to see how he is doing (as I'll be within 20 miles of there). And if he's not doing any better? I need to figure out what to treat him with, then go do it on Saturday or Sunday. Which will mean driving 40 miles round trip to work, then 60 miles roundtrip (opposite direction) to help him.

So please, everyone! Tell me what to do!!!


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

Treating with pimafix and melafix, although it says to only do this in extreme cases (this seems pretty extreme) will cure fin rot. 

You could also try this stuff http://www.fish.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=710134+008&srccode=FSHNXTAG

Lol now I'm not saying go and dump all these different meds in your tank. But give these a shot. 

Have I already mentioned that if there is carbon in your filter it will be sucking up your meds you add? You must remove carbon from your filter during treatment, then put it in to remove the meds from your tank.


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## sgorny (Jun 11, 2008)

*I should have removed the filter?*

I read the instructions that came with the Maracyn-TC, and it said that if the filter was over 6 days old, it didn't need to be removed. And mine was well over a week old, almost two.

Why can't they give proper directions?!? I read the entire pamphlet before I used it!

So should I continue to treat (as there is only 1 more day to go), and remove the filter, or should I just do the last day, give him a "drug holiday" for Sat/Sun, and start with another round of Tetracycline (this time without the filter) on Monday?

I can't seem to do anything right...


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

You seem to be having the same troubles that I have had. I tried melafix (which I don't think does anything but gunk up the water), Maracyn TC, and Fungus Clear. So far I can't decide if the Fungus Clear worked or not but I think it did more good than the other two. And yes, it is for treating the fish (never heard of it treating the tank :? ?) I have heard that other people here had used it and that it worked for them. I am guessing this is because it treats both bacterial and fungal infections so you get rid of any possibilities. I would take the carbon out of the filter just to be safe. If you have a filter that takes those pads that are filled with carbon, just empty the carbon out and put the flossy stuff back in so that you still have filtration. How often do you do water changes, unless otherwise directed by the medication, maybe you should do twice a week changes instead of weekly ones. The cleaner the water, the easier it is for them to heal and avoid re-infection. I would say that if the fin rot is getting worse, don't do another dose of the medication because it is not working. Give him a day (maybe 2 if it does not get too bad) to clear the water of any medication and try the Fungus Clear. Put the carbon in the filter to clear the meds. and do a partial water change and gravel vac. I hope that this helps, I sure hope that it actually did work for me! Still can't tell though.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Oh...sorry to double post. Don't use salt with the meds. because most of them contain salt and you can overdose. Good luck.


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## Little-Fizz (Aug 19, 2007)

You never have to take the filter out!!! The filter stays in 24/7 The only way I can see you would want to remove your filter is if what your adding destroys beneficial bacteria... And in that case... don't use the medication. 

Take the media out of your filter, cut a little bit on the flossy side shake the carbon out and put the media back into the filter. But you will need carbon once your have to remove the medications.

Have you had carbon in your filter the whole time during treatment?


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## sgorny (Jun 11, 2008)

*He's getting better!*

On Thursday, I did a 30% water change, then added the Tetracycline. I took pics, because obviously I'm not that observant, and I need to be able to see differences back to back to notice them.

On Friday night, *after* taking out the carbon filter, I added the Tetracycline.

I had to work Saturday & Sunday in a town 60 miles round trip the opposite direction. So I didn't go back Saturday.

Sunday morning, I went back, vacuumed his tank (about 1/3 water change), and added meds. He didn't look worse, but not significantly better. I took pics. 

Today? I noticed what I think is a little frill of almost clear tissue healing back, filling in the spaces between the spines (which are also very short now). So after 3 days on *unfiltered* meds, he's improving.

Here's my problem.

As previously said, I nuked the tank (ie - got rid of the gravel, rinsed everything in hot water with a scrubby brush), because that's what the first website I read said. I should have researched more thoroughly, but that's water under the bridge.

I tested the water today. Now, realize... since Friday night, there has been no filter, because it's one of those carbon ones, and I had to take it out. I have the Eclipse 3 gal, takes size Z filters.

And I did a 100% change on Monday, 33% change on Thursday, 33% change on Sunday... and when I dip checked it? 3 ppm Nitrite! It said to do a 25% water change, but he has his meds in the morning, and I don't want to dilute them. So I'm going to go in early, do the change tomorrow morning, and add in the Tetracycline. I plan on 5 days of dosage without filters.

But... obviously the water quality is going down. I know, I *nuked* it. But... I have the BioWheel system (how much does tetracycline hurt it), and the bacteria are in there, not in the gravel... or not *only* in the gravel...

I don't have gravel in there now, just a few glass beads, so I can more easily vacuum up any debris when I make my water changes. But do I *need* it? If I put in more substrate (glass gems) with that work? I had that before, but got rid of it because I had a nitrite spike, and because food fell between them and decayed (it was the danio tank), ruining the water. And whenever I changed the filter, I lost a lot of bacteria (I had a Whisper filter on that one).

Anyway... do I need gravel? Or can I just use a few scattered glass gems, 5 fabric plants, and an aquarium decoration (along with the BioWheel) to support a healthy flora for him?

Any advice is very welcome!


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## sgorny (Jun 11, 2008)

*Updated pics - he's a little better!*

Big Blue is doing a little better. He's starting to regrow his fins, or at least the bones aren't sticking out like they used to, so I'm assuming he's adding to the meat, not losing the bones. And it *looks* better.


















But now I'm having troubles with a nitrite spike (3 ppm), and I worry about diluting meds, but I *have * to do at least a 33% water change.

And I'm still wondering if I *need* gravel? I mean, is it up because I "nuked" my tank, and it will come to equilibrium again, or is it because I took the filter out on Friday to keep the meds from diluting, or do I really need the gravel to keep bacteria there? Because when I went to clean it before, it's amazing how much ick it traps and holds onto...

~~~~~~~


Here is a pic of him before any problems. I can't believe it took me so long to notice!


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## Silentkai08 (May 27, 2008)

*Nitrites!!!*

Check this link out:

http://fish.orbust.net/cycling.html

The first three paragraphs contain information about Nitrite's role towards having beneficial bacteria in your tank. As long as the Nitrite _does not exceed_ 20 ppm, you should be fine. I'm still new to taking care of Bettas. If any of this is wrong, please correct me.

I wish you and your fishy the best of luck  You guys will pull through. Looks like he is doing much better in the pictures.

Take care


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## jake5554 (Jul 31, 2008)

hey it could be because of those plastic plants you have in there does he like to brush up against them


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

> As long as the Nitrite does not exceed 20 ppm


Wrong! Nitrite is as lethal as ammonia to fish. Nitrate is ok at 20ppm.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I've found that a combination of Melafix and Pimafix works wonders for fin rot. I haven't tried other medications though, so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

Good luck with your betta, and let us know how it works out.


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