# fish dying daily help please!!



## hammerhead (Feb 11, 2010)

i have a 75 gal tank that has been in use for several years. it has been moved from house to house 2 different times. i have had it now about a year and a half with no problems. except i could not get plants to grow. i found this site about 6 weeks ago and found out why. i had 2 penguin 350 hob filters on the tank which i found out was wrong. so i found a used fluval 204 and started using. ran it for about 2 weeks and got phenomenal growth compared to what i had. so i added more plants (only had a couple) like vaills and swords. and started a 2 liter home built co2 reactor. i now know some things i have done over the next few weeks were not right or proper but i am still learning. now with the co2 i was watching the ph and it did drop down to 6.8/ 6.6 over 2 weeks, faster in the second week. so back off the co2 using a control valve. plants were good and the fish look good, except one ,my gourami. he looked a little beat up raised scales missing scales but i didn't think too much of it cause there is a red tailed shark and another gourami that would pick on him, he swam fine ate fine so i watched him for a few days. by friday he died with a cherry barb. i took a sample of water to the pet store to test. only ph a little low he said i think it was 6.8. the next weekend i added more fish and plants. 10 cherry barbs and 8 guppys and some red ludwiga. that was about 2 weeks ago, since then i have barbs, guppys, and my betta. my betta started with a small white area on his fin in the morning by night it was on his mouth and half of one side of his body. pet store said it looked like ph or ammonia burn. my ph had come back to a 7.2. pet store said pull the co2 and let the tank settle so i did that night (friday). last night i lost 4 more fish. all along i have had the water checked by the same pet store once a week and do a water change about 10 to 20 percent weekly. i tested the water this morning my self with new api test kits results are : ph 7.6, gh 200 ppm, kh 80 ppm, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10. also thursday night i added a sponge filter and change out atinic lights for 6700k bulbs. fish that are left are 8 neon tetras 10black neons 3albino cherry barbs 6red cherry barbs a pleco a red tail shark clown loach a gourami and some snails. please help i don't want to lose anymore fish.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Not ammonia poisoning I'm very sure its safe to say that with your dyi co2, which I know you had the best of intentions with that, you stressed your fish out till death, to cause such pH swings like you posted you have had mass amounts co2 pumped in there which will lower your pH & KH till it totally bottoms out and that's plain deadly to fish. Not to mention they need oxygen in the water from plants not a bunch co2.

You're on the right path there keep that co2 out of your tanks; continue a regular weekly water exchange, feed normal and they will hopfully regain their health there.

Look at my tanks under my name here the tap called 'Aquariums" non of my tanks get's co2 no ferts; only fish (for co2 supply) water and good light (daylights @ 6500 kelvin) - That works for me


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I second Angel079. Leave the CO2 off, period. Let the tank stabilize.

Changing the light will help the plants, the actinic is not good light for plants. Good move there.

What is the pH and hardness of your tap water? I ask because it would help toward stability to do a larger partial water change weekly, but only if the values between tap and tank are reasonably similar or further stress may occur, and fish stress (from any number of things) is a major cause of disease and weakness.

Byron.


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## hammerhead (Feb 11, 2010)

in the tap water ph is the same gh is higher kh is lower dont know if that makes sence


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

hammerhead said:


> in the tap water ph is the same gh is higher kh is lower dont know if that makes sence


Then a partial water change of 40-50% should not be a problem. The pH being the same, the KH buffering won't affect it. I would do this much of a pwc weekly. You can redcuce it since the tank is planted once things are stable. Around 30-40% is fine; I do 540-50% every week as I have heavy stocking.


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## hammerhead (Feb 11, 2010)

i have just done a water change (40-50%). you say weekly.? how should i expect this to go on? at what point should the tank be stable? like after 4 weeks and i still have fish dying would something else be wrong?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

hammerhead said:


> i have just done a water change (40-50%). you say weekly.? how should i expect this to go on? at what point should the tank be stable? like after 4 weeks and i still have fish dying would something else be wrong?


 
Most people (nearly all) perform water changes each week for the life of their aquariums. Water changes remove waste and supply minerals needed by fish, and plants and they also help to maintain a stable pH. Your water changes, may need to be more frequent than once a week and I say this ,,because it is possible that when you switched filters,you threw away the beneficial bacteria needed in all aqauriums unless you took some of the filter material from the old filters and placed it in the canister filter.
This beneficial bacteria deals with the ammonia and nitrites that are toxic to fishes and until the new filter has developed a colony of this benefical bacteria,, your tank may see increased ammonia and nitrite levels . Would use my new test kit to measure these each day for the next few weeks. If levels of ammonia and or nitrites read above .25, I would perform a water change using a dechlorinator for the new water before I added the new water to the tank. Would make sure new water is close to same temp as that in the aquarium.
Once your aquarium water test's zero for ammonia and nitrites each day for several days in a row,, then once weekly water changes will be all that is needed.
Another reason to keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite levels is at lower pH levels,the ammonia being produced by the fish on daily basis is less toxic than it is at ph levels you are now recording. IF the new filter does not yet have a sufficient bacteria colony to handle the ammonia and nitrites,then they could begin to increase and as mentioned,,anything over .25 would in my view be call for a water change.
Your tank will settle down now that you are using tapwater close to same pH as the tank and once it has settled ,the fish will be under way less stress.
I have heard numerous people report problems with DIY Co2 because it is difficult and dangerous to try and regulate the ppm of Co2 being dumped into the tank. Is not safe to try and reduce the flow on DIY units in my opinion ,for the fermentation process can be unpredictable, and restricting the flow could lead to rather nast y mess (Bottle exploding).
I would strive once again to get some stability in the aquarium ,and then possibly explore the addition of Co2 if that is your wish with perhaps Equipment that is a little more stable with regards to amounts being released. There are some members here who have excellent examples of planted aquariums without Co2 injection and this may be something you might consider.
Nothing wrong with Co2 ,but one should have a fair working knowledge in my view,, of how it works and how it affects water chemistry which in turn affects the fishes we keep.


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## hammerhead (Feb 11, 2010)

i have been testing at least once a day sence friday. getting the same results. the filter has been on now for 6 to 8 weeks. shouldnt the bacteria have built up by now? is it possible there is something eles going on? would it hurt to use some malifix just incase?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

hammerhead said:


> i have been testing at least once a day sence friday. getting the same results. the filter has been on now for 6 to 8 weeks. shouldnt the bacteria have built up by now? is it possible there is something eles going on? would it hurt to use some malifix just incase?[/quot
> 
> 
> If the filter has been running on the tank with fish for six to eight weeks then yes , there should be a bacteria colony present.
> ...


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## hammerhead (Feb 11, 2010)

most of the fish have dyed over night. i dont get to see any signs of illness. what would a clamped fin look like?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Fins held close to the body, not spread as normal, are called clamped.

[I hope you mean that the fish that have previously died did so during the night, and not that all the fish died last night.]

I second what 1077 has posted. Monitor ammonia and nitrite, do a daily pwc if levels exceed .25, use a good conditioner that detoxifies ammonia and nitrite (like Prime), and when/if things remain normal, then a weekly pwc will/should keep the tank stable.


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## hammerhead (Feb 11, 2010)

Byron said:


> Fins held close to the body, not spread as normal, are called clamped.
> 
> [I hope you mean that the fish that have previously died did so during the night, and not that all the fish died last night.]
> 
> I second what 1077 has posted. Monitor ammonia and nitrite, do a daily pwc if levels exceed .25, use a good conditioner that detoxifies ammonia and nitrite (like Prime), and when/if things remain normal, then a weekly pwc will/should keep the tank stable.


correct when they die they die over night. lost two more last night. i did a water change last night cause there was a touch of ammonia not quiet .25. i went and bought prime water conditioner and used in the tank. everyone looked fine after i finished. why would it be only over night? ph did not change and every thing else was well in range.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

hammerhead said:


> correct when they die they die over night. lost two more last night. i did a water change last night cause there was a touch of ammonia not quiet .25. i went and bought prime water conditioner and used in the tank. everyone looked fine after i finished. why would it be only over night? ph did not change and every thing else was well in range.


When I have found a dead fish (and yes, I sometimes do) it always seems to be in the morning. Guess it's like humans, in hospitals the most deaths from terminal patients or similar is around 5 am. Don't know why.

Prime with all water changes will help a lot. You will still get an ammonia reading because Prime detoxifies ammonia by converting it to the harmless ammonium, but both ammonia and ammonia show as "ammonia" in test kits (most of them) and ammonia and ammonium are used by the bacteria and plants. So as long as the fish appear more normal, and not respirating fast, hanging at the surface, red gills, etc., the "ammonia" will probably be ammonium and not a concern.


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## hammerhead (Feb 11, 2010)

checked water last night everthing looked so i didnt do a pwc. this morning !woohoo! :thumbsup: no dead fish. now we will see if it holds up. also thanks for all help and input.


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## d0r0g0 (Jan 18, 2009)

good to hear things are looking up


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## hammerhead (Feb 11, 2010)

spoke too soon. lost one yesterday and two today. last night i noticed what looked like cotton mouth on a couple fish. what should i do? water has been perfect the last three or four days nw.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Can you post a photo or two of the fish with the "cotton" or whatever it is? Treating fish in a community tank, especially one that is just settling down after other water issues, is very risky unless it is something absolutely essential and certain.


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