# Help me choosing fishes for a 140G FOWLR tank:



## Aquamarine

Hi all,

I'd like to place these fishes in my 140 gallons, fish-only with live rock tank:

1 yellow trigger
1 coral beauty
1 blue tang
1 raccoon butterfly
1 yellow stripe maroon clownfish or 1 maroon clownfish
1 humu picasso trigger or 1 niger trigger
1 snowflake eel

Would I have any problems with these fishes living together in a 140g tank? I will not buy them all on the same day... I don't have plans to raise corals and delicate inverts, but IF I decide to put a coral in it just to try out, will I run into trouble? :roll:


Thanks in advance! 
Fabrizio


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## onefish2fish

what exactly is a yellow trigger?

sounds like a pretty good list to me. now would prob. be the time to decide if you want 2 clownfish or not as adding an additional later down the road may cause problems.
what is the equiptment going to look like? flow, filtration, skimmer and so forth.

adding a coral would mean you would need exceptable lighting for its well being and survival.


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## Aquamarine

onefish2fish said:


> what exactly is a yellow trigger?
> 
> sounds like a pretty good list to me. now would prob. be the time to decide if you want 2 clownfish or not as adding an additional later down the road may cause problems.
> what is the equiptment going to look like? flow, filtration, skimmer and so forth.
> 
> adding a coral would mean you would need exceptable lighting for its well being and survival.


Sorry, I meant Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescen). My tank is still dry and I do not have all equipments yet... So far, my setup is this:

- 140g glass tank (with the sump is little big more than that)
- Tunze DOC 9010 Protein Skimmer (still need the pump. Any Recommendations?) 
Still need pump for sump, skimmer pump, lights and the display powerheads will be 3 or more Hydor Koralias and or Tunze Nanostreams. 

Thanks!


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## Pasfur

Aquamarine said:


> 1 yellow Tang
> 1 coral beauty
> 1 blue tang
> 1 raccoon butterfly
> 1 yellow stripe maroon clownfish or 1 maroon clownfish
> 1 humu picasso trigger or 1 niger trigger
> 1 snowflake eel


The Yellow Tang, Coral Beauty, Maroon Clownfish, and Niger Trigger are very good choices. These are all very hardy fish and good for a beginner. The Niger is tame by Trigger standards and should mix well in this community. The Picasso Trigger is a horrible idea for this selection, as it is way over aggressive for the other choices.

The Raccoon Butterfly is best left for larger aquariums that you have to offer. I would also never recommend a beginner attempt to keep any of the Butterflyfish, even the Raccoon.

The snowflake eel is a popular beginner choice but rarely kept by the experienced hobbyist. It is a very boring fish, is rarely seen, and can become aggressive and territorial.

Please clarify when you say Blue Tang. Is this the Blue Hippo Tang (Dori)? Or the Atlantic Blue Tang? I assume you mean the Blue Hippo (Paracanthurus hepatus). If so, then yes it is also a good addition and is very hardy.

Some of these fish are not reef safe. You need to make this decision before moving forward.


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## jesterns2

*Live Rock Storage*

i have to fix the top rim on my tank. I put my live rock in a big tote container and have a hydor koralia powerhead placed inside the container and in the container with my live sand is an air raiting stone because I dont have another powerhead. is this enough to prevent die off or will I have a little? I am not planning on the rock?sand being in the tote more than a week and a half.


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## Kellsindell

as long as the sand is submersed it wont have any die off. If the no air zones get O2 then things in it start to die quite quickly. If you pulled the sand out by hand and dropped it into the container, i'd say you will need to clean the sand by using water (doesn't matter what kind of water) and rinse it completely clean of all dying things.

If you used a cup with water in it or a container that had water in it and poured it into the container always keeping the sand completely under water, then you are fine.


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## Aquamarine

Pasfur said:


> The Yellow Tang, Coral Beauty, Maroon Clownfish, and Niger Trigger are very good choices. These are all very hardy fish and good for a beginner. The Niger is tame by Trigger standards and should mix well in this community. The Picasso Trigger is a horrible idea for this selection, as it is way over aggressive for the other choices.
> 
> The Raccoon Butterfly is best left for larger aquariums that you have to offer. I would also never recommend a beginner attempt to keep any of the Butterflyfish, even the Raccoon.
> 
> The snowflake eel is a popular beginner choice but rarely kept by the experienced hobbyist. It is a very boring fish, is rarely seen, and can become aggressive and territorial.
> 
> Please clarify when you say Blue Tang. Is this the Blue Hippo Tang (Dori)? Or the Atlantic Blue Tang? I assume you mean the Blue Hippo (Paracanthurus hepatus). If so, then yes it is also a good addition and is very hardy.
> 
> Some of these fish are not reef safe. You need to make this decision before moving forward.



Thanks for answering. Yes, I know my livestock won't be reef safe, but my intention is to have a FOWLR tank, later I'll build a smaller tank only for reef and inverts. The blue tang is the hepatus indeed. 

Is there any other type of Butterfly Fish I can put with the others? And what's wrong with the Humu Picasso? Doesn't it get along with Tangs or is the Maroon Clown the one to blame?

Cheers.


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## Pasfur

Your tank is just to small for a fish as aggressive as the Picasso Trigger. There is a HUGE step up in aggression from the Niger and Tangs to a Picasso Trigger. The Picasso would mix well with these fish in a 220 at minimum, preferably a 280 or larger. 

The Tangs are "territorial", but not necessarily "aggressive". The Picasso is down right mean and is perfectly capable of deciding to live by itself in your aquarium and killing every fish overnight, in a tank as small as a 140.

There is not a Butterflyfish in the hobby suitable for anyone without several years experience, in my opinion.


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## Aquamarine

Pasfur said:


> Your tank is just to small for a fish as aggressive as the Picasso Trigger. There is a HUGE step up in aggression from the Niger and Tangs to a Picasso Trigger. The Picasso would mix well with these fish in a 220 at minimum, preferably a 280 or larger.
> 
> The Tangs are "territorial", but not necessarily "aggressive". The Picasso is down right mean and is perfectly capable of deciding to live by itself in your aquarium and killing every fish overnight, in a tank as small as a 140.
> 
> There is not a Butterflyfish in the hobby suitable for anyone without several years experience, in my opinion.


Thanks;

I knew most Triggers and Butterfly were trouble... But they are one are the coolest fishes, hands down. I'm just not going to spend a lot of money and hard work on a tank to raise only clowns, gobbies and damsels though. I'd build a Reef Tank If I were into that... Which other Triggers are less ill-tempered than the Picasso? And even the Auriga Butterflyfish is that hard to keep?


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## Pasfur

I understand the frustration of seeing beautiful fish and wanting to keep them, but you have to work within the space you have, which is 140 gallons. 

Saltwater fish are not as simple to rate for aggression as freshwater fish, unfortunately. Most marine species are territorial by nature. Most of the time when you mix fish from different families or Genus's you are ok, so long as you are not mixing predators with prey. 

Triggers are the exception in the marine hobby. They are in a different world when it comes to aggression. The Niger Trigger is the ONLY species in this family that mixes well in community tanks. This includes the Black Trigger or Hawaiian Niger Trigger. It could easily be argued that even a Niger is to big a risk for a 140 gallon tank, but I would personally feel comfortable.

When it comes to Triggers, there are the aggressive Triggers, such as the Picasso, Blue Jaw, Bursa, Rectangular, Queen, and Clown. These fish are all very high risk in all but the largest home communities. What makes these fish such a risk is that you don't see the aggression in their daily behavior. Everything appears to be fine, and then one day every fish in your tank is shredded to pieces. It happens overnight before you can react. I have heard this story over and over again. Just don't do it. If you do decide that Triggers are so cool you can't resist, then I suggest a Trigger tank, mixing only Triggers, being very careful in the order that they are added.

By the way, if you see an Undulate Trigger, just turn and run. 

On the subject of Butterflyfish, they are the opposite extreme. Not in behavior, but in difficulty. The great majority of Butterflyfish are nearly impossible to keep. A handful make decent aquarium fish, but are still the most difficult fish which we maintain in an aquarium successfully. The Copperband, Racoon, Pearscale, Pelewensis, and Vegabond are the most reasonable choices. All of these fish are EXTREMELY difficult to keep compared to the other fish we have been discussing. These are fish for marine fishkeepers with great experience. If you have to choose one for your community, try the Copperband. The Racoon grows far to large for your tank and has virtually no chance of survival for you. The Copperband is the most tolerant of the remaining group.

Keep in mind, when keeping delicate fish, such as Butterflyfish, you need to meet EVERY need of the fish. You can not push the limits on ANYthing. This means providing the proper space, diet, near perfect water quality, and above all, don't even consider adding fish which are of similar shape or of more aggressive temperment.

Again, larger tank sizes allow for greater possibility. A 140 is the absolute smallest tank to consider these conversations.

By the way, I understand the pain of wanting to keep Butterflyfish. A very small part of me wants to do a FOWLR in my 180, just to keep Butterflyfish and an Asfur Angel. (P. asfur)


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