# Are my fish acting alright? with Video, PLEASE reply!!



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

is my tank alright - YouTube

is my tank alright 2 - YouTube

Ive been watching my fish, and they seem to all be hyper!
I havent changed anything in the tank.

In the first video, im worried about the female dalmation molly in the lower left corner. What kind of dance is that? Its not a shimmy, or flashing, but almost, swimming in a circle...
In the second video, both of my dalmation mollies, male and a female, running along the glass, over and over..what could be causing that?

I ran out of tests, though i did a water change yesterday about 40%, but no gravel cleaning as i had done that the day before.

my params were 0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, and 20ppm nitrAte. 


Id like you guys to look at the whole tank anf tell me if my fish seem out of sorts to you...

thank you very much!


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## Varkolak (Jun 9, 2012)

whats the weather supposed to be like tonight?


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Windy but clear.
The weather makes fish act differently?


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## Varkolak (Jun 9, 2012)

Yup a lot of fish will go nuts if a thunderstorm is coming there are some who will huddle at the bottom and some that go into a frenzy. They don't look like anything is wrong with them and i doubt its anything wrong with the tank because both are doing it. Its almost like they thought they were getting fed then got a big fat DENIED and are still looking, if the weathers fine then I'm not sure


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Hmm, maybe they are just hungry!
Since I took the ghosties out, I've been feeding them a lot less, and more often. It helps me make sure everybody gets one or two granules at a time. Lol

They freak out whenever I get up close to the tank, almost jumping to get ahead of each other!
When I was watching them, I was across the room, about twelve feet. 
The big food amount change has got them begging, huh? Lol

I didn't know that writer affected them...who knows, it could suddenly thunderstorm! This is those island. Weather never stays the same. And sudden rain showers is the theme so far in this summer. =]


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The behaviour of the molly on the left in the first video is concerning, that is due to stress. This can be brought on by many things, and short-term is not a problem, but long-term will be.

How long has this tank been set up and how long has that molly been in it?

And, what is your GH and pH and temp?

Byron.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

I have hard water, the ph is 7.5 and the temp is 77.
I have had the mollies for two weeks, they were the first in that tank, but the gravel and filter is from an older tank. The fish that were in the older tank are not sick.
Could it be stress from a feeding change?
That female usually hangs out with the whit female that is recovering from what I'm guessing is a bacterial infection. It's gone now, just making sure it doesn't come back. Could the Dalmatian be stressed without the white one?
There is another female, and a male in the tank. Possibly not enough females to distribute aggression?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> I have hard water, the ph is 7.5 and the temp is 77.
> I have had the mollies for two weeks, they were the first in that tank, but the gravel and filter is from an older tank. The fish that were in the older tank are not sick.
> Could it be stress from a feeding change?
> That female usually hangs out with the whit female that is recovering from what I'm guessing is a bacterial infection. It's gone now, just making sure it doesn't come back. Could the Dalmatian be stressed without the white one?
> There is another female, and a male in the tank. Possibly not enough females to distribute aggression?


I don't see aggression, just something making that molly uneasy. New fish can be like this for a few hours to a few days, which is why I asked about time. A sudden change in some water parameter can cause this, like GH and pH, but the numbers you give are fine for molly and I'll assume they have been stable. Which leaves the disease and treatment (medication) which if was in this tank may have affected this fish.

I would not do anything; without knowing the something definite is wrong, trying to do "something" is usually worse and it only adds more stress. Feed normally, do weekly water changes normally (though another in case there is medication left in the tank might help), no sudden changes.

One thing I wold suggest is more floating plants. This can calm fish amazingly.

Byron.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Actually, i didnt medicate of put AQ salt in this tank..i seperated the sick fish from the others.

I got an API master test kit, and my params were ph 6.4, ammonia 0, nitrIte 0 NitrAte 10ppm
I thought 6.4 ph would be soft water? am i wrong?
And if it is, how could i have hard water?
I am going to call the town hall and ask..they should have that record on file. maybe even my parents still have the test they did.

Im not going to do anything besides continue the feeding schedule i have now, and water changes as i have been. I know how doing 'something' about it can turn into whay did i do that?!? Lol.

Thank you so much!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> Actually, i didnt medicate of put AQ salt in this tank..i seperated the sick fish from the others.
> 
> I got an API master test kit, and my params were ph 6.4, ammonia 0, nitrIte 0 NitrAte 10ppm
> I thought 6.4 ph would be soft water? am i wrong?
> ...


That explains it. Molly must have hard water with a basic pH or they will not be healthy; they frequently develop skin problems, shimmy, fungus and always early demise. That bacterial thing was almost certainly linked to the water. I thought the pH was 7.5 which would be fine, but not 6.4? Do you have numbers for the GH? This you should be able to get from your water supply people, check their website if they have one. Might as well get the KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) too.

My article on hardness and pH mentions the safe ways of adjusting GH and pH. With livebearers, it really can't be too high, so I would use dolomite if you can get it, or aragonite which is similar. You can buy sands and gravels intended for marine tanks made of these substances, usually with crushed coral too. Before we get into methods, we need to know the GH and KH.

If you do have soft water, which seems likely but not absolutely from the pH, soft water fish would suit it better. Less fuss.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Im going to check the ph of my tap water.
I will be checking the town hall tomorrow to see if they can clarify whether my water is hard or soft. For reference, is it GH that is hardness?
These fish were raised in my towns water, ive read if they are conditioned to it they can be okay in it?
You said crushed coral..what about coral i already have? Its from Aruba, been boiled three times because i was going to put it in the tank, and was told not to. 
I obviously wont act until i find out whether my water is hard or soft, but would that be a solution?
I can ask, but im not sure my lps had dolomite or argonite...

Why doesnt the master testing kit have GH and KH?? its supposed to be MASTER! lol


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

*Oh this is exhausting..*

So i tested my tap water...and my tank water...FOUR TIMES. Seven, if you count the high ph tests.

Somehow, my 8.8 ph water is dropping to a 6.4.

How could this happen?

Youve seen my tank, what could be causing this??

Ive included a picture of all four low ph tests, labeled, and a picture of the three high ph tests i took on my tap.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Just read that water straight from the tap usually gives off a false PH, much higher than it is, so i ran four tests, two low and two high on my aged water, its been sitting out a day and a half..


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I'll try to answer everything from the last few posts.

GH is general hardness, and KH is carbonate hardness (often called Alkalinity). We really must have these numbers for your tap water, as they are probably the cause but without them we are guessing. GH and KH is not something most aquarists fiddle with, as it is safer to use what comes out of the tap and select fish that will manage. You can by a kit for GH/KH, but before spending money let's make sure you will use it. Once we know the GH and KH numbers for the tap water, we will know what we have to work with.

On the pH. When testing tap water, you must out-gas the CO2 in order to get a more accurate reading. You can let the water sit 24 hours, or you can shake it briskly for several moments; either way the CO2 will dissipate. CO2 adds carbonic acid to water, thus lowering pH. Tap water usually has some amount of CO2 dissolved in it, this varies from place to place. Also, only use one test for both because you can get different numbers depending upon the test, as you've seen. Once we have this all sorted out, the appropriate test for the tank will be obvious.

To explain why the pH is lowering in the aquarium. This is natural, due to the buildup of CO2 from fish and plant respiration and the breakdown of organics by bacteria. The CO2 creates carbonic acid, which lowers pH. Now. the extent to which this occurs depends upon several factors. First, the tank biology; more fish in smaller volume of water means more waste and thus more acid. The more food that goes in, the more waste. The larger the fish, the more waste and CO2. But aside from this, there is the KH of the source water. KH acts as a buffer to maintain the pH where it is coming out of the tap. The higher the KH, the more it will buffer.

My situation to illustrate. Tap water is near-zero GH and KH, and pH is 7 to 7.2; in my tanks, after a couple weeks new, the pH will be 5 if i do nothing. This is fine for the fish I have. In two tanks I buffer pH with aragonite to keep it in the mid 6 range; the other tanks I let go. The fish in these respective tanks are fine with the pH.

So, I am expecting your KH to be low, and usually the GH is similar. The water folks are probably adding something to raise the pH, assuming the GH is low. Mine do; they do this to maintain a higher pH which will not corrode pipes and water tanks as much as will an acidic pH. This has no effect on GH (or on KH either, we may assume from your pH numbers) and it is harmless. But worth knowing, as it is part of the whole picture.

Last comment on the fish adapting to your water. This is a commonly-held belief by some, but one I do not accept. If you read my article on Stress http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/stress-freshwater-aquarium-fish-98852/ it goes into detail on the ways the physiology of a fish is designed for specific water parameters, and any variation will cause issues. Not everyone wants to hear this, but it is a fact of science. Now, having said that, there are some fish that can adapt to some extent to different parameters, but this has its limits and is also limited to specific species. When it comes to livebearers, they must have mineral in the water or they will not be healthy. Soft water fish are the opposite; hard water for them causes calcium deposits in the kidneys and other issues. Fish maintained too far out of their preference--which nature has programmed into them through evolution over millions of years--will not be healthy, their immune system is compromised, and in all cases they have shorter lifespans as a result. The cited article will expand on this.

Byron.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Wow! What a great article! 
It really explains why the right size tank, water params and tank mates are so important..

I have been searching CL, and will be going to the Salvation Army to look for. 35-40 gallon tank. My fish are in a 24 gallon right now. There are three guppies and four mollies. 

I probably need more plants in the tank, especially floating ones, to help keep the fish comfortable.

I am going to be contacting the water company to find out the KH and GH of my water. Could my LPS do it for me? I'll ask.

For now, I have added a few small peices of three times boiled sea shells, right under the filter, to attempt to help the PH to get higher. How long should I do this for? How many shells would I need?

Can I use actual coral? I don't believe my LPS has coral substrate. 

Can I help co2 dissipate? Maybe an air stone? I have a bunch of little peices of marimo ball..with they use up more of the CO2? How about java moss? Those are tho only two plants I have access to.


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## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

And may I say, Byron, how amazing you are?
You have truly helped me, not to mention so many other people on this forum.
I thank you whole heartedly!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> I am going to be contacting the water company to find out the KH and GH of my water. Could my LPS do it for me? I'll ask.


The water company will be more reliable, but a good fish store will test GH and KH, just make sure they give you numbers, not some useless vague "OK, kinda soft" which tells us nothing.:roll:



> For now, I have added a few small peices of three times boiled sea shells, right under the filter, to attempt to help the PH to get higher. How long should I do this for? How many shells would I need?
> 
> Can I use actual coral? I don't believe my LPS has coral substrate.


Any form of coral will work as coral is simply calcium and it dissolves slowly. I've never used shells so I don't know how long this would take. Coral-based gravel or sand is easiest because it works fast. Any fish store that carries marine substrates will have this. I have used CarribSea's crushed coral/aragonite sand/gravel, but there are other brands.



> Can I help co2 dissipate? Maybe an air stone? I have a bunch of little peices of marimo ball..with they use up more of the CO2? How about java moss? Those are tho only two plants I have access to.[/


There is no issue with CO2 in the tank, I was referring to testing tap water. Just run a bit of tap water in a small jar with a tight-fitting lid, then shake it briskly for a couple minutes before testing the pH. No need to do this in the tank, you want CO2 in there for the plants.


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