# Celestial Pearl Danios Dying



## ramanimalsey (Aug 19, 2014)

Hi everyone, this is my first time posting but I've been a long time lurker. I've set up a heavily planted 10 gallon aquarium. I used to have 3 kuhli loaches and 6 pearl danios in it, but when I added a dozen sakura cherry shrimp to it, the danios would aggressively tear at any of the shrimp that would expose itself. I took them out, and instead got celestial pearl danios. These were the last nine the pet shop had, they looked quite thin but in the past couple days seemed to have fattened up a little. The first day after introducing them to the tank, I had one die. Yesterday, I had zero deaths, but I was disappointed to wake up today to find another one belly up and struggling to swim and breath. This time I took a photo, his gills looked heavily inflamed compared to the others. I've had a few cherry shrimp die after adding them about a week ago, I'm inclined to blame the injuries from the pearl danios nipping their legs off and also because of accidental overfeeding. I haven't had any shrimp die in a few days though, and they seem happy. The loaches are still in there, and thriving. Had some oto catfish arrive today to deal with the algae, I'm currently letting them adjust to the water before putting them in by having them in a cup floating on the surface and adding about 10ml of aquarium water every 5-10 mins for a couple hours. A couple days ago I tried to introduce two scarlet badis, but they both died within a day. One had what looked like cottonmouth, where their mouths swelled open with white flecks inside, the other died before this one, so I didn't check for cottonmouth. The pearl danios previously in the tank had some white on their mouths that would come and go, so maybe the water was contaminated with whatever they had. The celestial pearl danios don't have any visible symptoms, even the ones that died. Here are my tank parameters, this tank is three weeks old and uses the amazonia over powersand combination substrate which is supposed to lead to a 1 week cycle. Parameters have been quite stable after the first week.

Parameters

size: 10 G
Ammonia: Don't know, getting test kit today. This sounds like a likely culprit, since the amazonia soil leaks a lot of ammonia. It shouldn't be that much of a problem at this point though.
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm (this is what I go for through dosing)
ph, gh, KH: 6.4, don't remember gh and KH but the water is quite soft, I think about 70ppm, i mix with bottled RO water
Temperature: 75 F
Freshwater
Set up for 3 weeks
3 kuhli loaches, 2 oto's (error in shipment today, ordered 4), 7 celestial pearl danios, a handful of cherry shrimp, tons of snails
No fish were quarantined, I have yet to get a separate quarantine tank for them. This might be difficult, I'm not sure if my college accommodations will allow for another.
I have many live plants, glossostigma carpet, dwarf baby tears, giant baby tears, pearlweed, and anubias
substrate is amazonia and powersand, with all of the ada substrate additives 
One large piece of driftwood, not seeping tannins anymore
zoomed 501 canister filter (the big one with the pressure turned down)
Small heater set to 75
Finnex Ray2 LED light with 9 hours of light
30 percent water change weekly, half RO half tap, slowly tapering to tap water only since glossostigma doesn't seem to mind (tap water is 170 KH I think, slightly hard)
Aqueon water conditioner, I dose green brighty special lights and step 1, seachem potassium, green bacter, and green gain every Sunday Tuesday and Thursday
I fed the cpd shredded bloodworms, will be switching to ken's golden pearls when they arrive in the mail tomorrow

The cpd appear healthy, inquisitive, and only a little shy. They eat what can fit in their mouth, spitting out bloodworms that are too large. Today's dead cpd looked like it had gill damage, it was red and inflamed, the others look fine. I have pimafix and melafix, which I ordered shortly before the second scarlet badis died. I'm mostly inclined to suspect my CO2 system. The drop checker is a solid green, and the fish don't appear to struggle to breath. On the other hand, I don't have any surface agitation, and the CO2 levels might rise at night due to reversal of plant respiration despite having a solenoid that turns off my CO2 for the night. I'm going to get an air stone for tonight, then we'll see how it goes. 

Here are photos of the tank and the fish (dead and healthy). Thanks in advance for all your help!


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Looks like maybe flukes. Do some prazi pro and that should help.

Or co2 burns are a possibility. Do your plants pearl? If not than you have no oxygen going into the tank and you usually dont shut the co2 at night. That will be a lot of co2 in there at night.
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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

You added sensitive fish (and shrimp) to an unestablished tank... I think ammonia poisoning is a _very_ likely culprit here, especially looking at the dead fish's gills. Test when your kit gets here, and start doing more water changes.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Doesnt look like ammonia poisoning. Cuz there are a lot of plants that look like are growing. 

But i may be wrong.
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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

It's not even close to being heavily planted, and even if they were all growing well there's only so much ammonia that that many plants can handle. 

ADA Amazonia is known for releasing large amounts of ammonia into the tank, or it could just be that all of the stock was added at once and not long after the tank was setup.


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## ramanimalsey (Aug 19, 2014)

I tested my ammonia today, according to the results of the test strip it's somewhere between 0 and 0.5 ppm (the color is closer to 0 than to 0.5ppm so it seems pretty insignificant). I put in an order for prazi pro, hopefully no more deaths occur. One fish turned very pale today and acted erratically for several minutes (not schooling with the others and trying to swim against the flow of the spraybar) but they all have their coloration back right now and are schooling together.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ya i thought it wasnt the ammonia. All those plants, even though low to the ground. It is almost heavily. DEFINITELY shut off the co2 at night, its bad for the fish/plants and is a waste. Also get some aeration in the tank.
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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

You used a test strip, which are known to be unreliable and should be taken with a grain of salt... If that. The API liquid tests are good, and much more reliable. 

I still think it's ammonia, the chances are _so_ much higher than flukes. Do a 30% water change today, and again tomorrow... With any luck the symptoms will go away and the fish will stop dying. It's not going to hurt.

And tankman... I don't know what definitions you're going off, but most would consider a tank like this heavily planted- http://leod.igon.org/Fish/Plant/planted_tank_Jan2010.jpg

This would be medium, if that. - http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/custom/images/large/4bb48a08b5ed6.jpg

This would be lightly planted- http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=309914&thumb=1&d=1398257574

Note how in the medium and heavily planted tanks there is dense coverage on multiple levels, and there are a lot of fast growing stems? I would place ramanimalsey's tank between low and medium.


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## ramanimalsey (Aug 19, 2014)

So here's an update on the situation. I had no new deaths yesterday. I did a 25-30% water change last night just in case it was ammonia and woke up to find another cpd stuck to the filter with a shrimp munching on it 
I received the API liquid test kit this morning in the mail and tested ammonia, it turned up 0ppm. What I'm worried about right now is the fact that I found a cpd with what appears to be white stool hanging from him. This guy is particularly emaciated despite a good apetite, and has looked like the runt of the school since I got him. The stool later came out, and I don't think it looks like a worm, but from what I read online it's possible that it could be an internal parasite, but I'm not sure which one. Some parasites that cause white stool that turned up were intestinal flagellates, nematodes, hexamita, and capillaria worm larvae. Unfortunately I know nothing about these parasites or even if it is a parasite, and would appreciate your guy's input. I'm down to six cpd, really hoping that I don't lose any more. My kuhli loaches and otos are doing great, and I haven't had a shrimp die recently.
Here's a photo and a video
Aug 21, 2014 - YouTube


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

They do look really emaciated... Since this isn't ammonia poisoning, my best guess is that it's internal parasites- it makes a lot of sense given the symptoms. 

I would try general cure... It should take care of most of the common internal parasites. Along with the GC, you can also try dosing epsom salts... they can help the fish flush out the parasites.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Prazipro will do internal parasites, as well as flukes. Still your best option, IME.
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## ramanimalsey (Aug 19, 2014)

Thanks a lot! I'll let you know how it goes.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

General Cure contains both metronidazole and praziquantel (the active ingredient in Prazipro)... It will do everything Prazipro will AND take care of a wider range of internal parasites. To be fair, it is a harsher medication, but it increases the chance of successfully curing them. 

I don't know why you are so set on this being flukes, tankman. Especially with the emaciation internal parasites are significantly more likely.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

I said it, just incase if there are some... At least we know it isnt ammonia.
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