# overstocked ?????



## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

hey i was wandering if sum1 cood tell me if my tank is overstocked i have a 60 uk litre tank and in it are ...
3x 3 spot gourami 
4x sailfin mollies
1x red tail black shark 
1x peppered corydoras
1x golden algae eater
2x platy
1x whiptail catfish


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

60 litres = approx 15 gallons? Yes, you are WAAAYYY overstocked.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

would you reccomend taking out ???????????????


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

I would only keep the platies and the cory and add a few more of each. Watch out on the platies though because if you have males and females you will have lots of babies. Cories are shoaling fish and should be kept in groups. You might also be able to add 1 *dwarf* gourami as they only grow to about 2". But no 3-spots, they grow to about 6" each and can be very territorial with each other.

Hate to say it but the other fish will outgrow the tank.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Yes 15g Jeaninel.
I'd back Jeaninel, take out anything but: Either Molly OR Platy, keep the peppered Cory and add 4-5 more of them and return all else to the store you got them from; not only will the other fish outgrown this tank, but due to their natural behavior PLUS a extra small tank, they'll become very aggressive towards one another, that is a very unfortunate set up you found there.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

i think i am gonna gat rid of the gourami and the mollies.
do you think that i should get rid of the whiptail and algae eater???


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

overstocked only applies if you do minimual w/c and have lots of time inbetween. all will be fine in your tank if you do 25-35% w/c every three days or so and have atleast 5x filtration a hr. if your not willing to do that then yes you are overstocked.


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## rrcoolj (Dec 5, 2009)

Yeah it's overstocked no room for the fish once they get big. The gouramis again can get to 6in easy and can be semi aggressive. As for the sailfins... Depending on wheather its latipinna or velifera they can get 4-6in and again are semi aggressive. I had a female that bullied an angelfish twice it's size. The whiptail catfish again depending on the species can grow 6in+. I would keep the platys and add mre corys get red of the red tail for they can be aggressive especially towards bottom feeders and if that "gold algea eater" is a chinese algea eater than it will grow big and get aggressive.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

i dont think it is a chinese algae eater i will try and get a pic of it. and the shark is quite peacful at the moment so i will hold on to to him/her for a bit.
as for the gourami and mollies the gourami are already getting a little agressive and one is getting rather large he/she is bout 3-4 inches already and he/she is chasing the other gourami around.and the mollies arenet too bad YET .


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

i have a pic of one its not my one but it looks pretty much the same.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

its probably a bit smaller than that one


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

That'd be a Gold Algae eater, grows to be about 12", their behavior is just as good/ bad as the rep for their non albion fried the Chinese algae eaters.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

the lady in the petshop sed they grow quite slow is this true


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

MoneyMitch said:


> overstocked only applies if you do minimual w/c and have lots of time inbetween. all will be fine in your tank if you do 25-35% w/c every three days or so and have atleast 5x filtration a hr. if your not willing to do that then yes you are overstocked.


If you are defining overstocked based on the ability of your filter to handle the waste load, then I agree with this statement above.

Personally, I think a tank should be stocked based on the ability of its inhabitants to live a long health life, based on their adult size. Being overstocked could also be an indication of the likelihood that the fish in the tank are going to develop aggressive behaviors towards each other as they grow. In this case, the tank is overstocked.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

i have decided that if any fish get too big i will ask the pet shop i purchased them from if i can swap them for smaller fish of an equal price


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

tommaso889 said:


> i have decided that if any fish get too big i will ask the pet shop i purchased them from if i can swap them for smaller fish of an equal price


There is a problem with this approach that I'll try to explain.

According to information from biologists I have read to date, it is my understanding that fish continue to grow throughout their lives, unlike us for example [except I guess in girth]. Keeping a potentially large fish in a small tank does often negatively affect its growth, but this is not a benign process resulting in the creation of a miniature version of a normal adult; rather it is known as stunting, and this has negative impacts on the fish's health. Internal problems may not manifest themselves for years, but they can lead to an early death for the fish. Immune system problems have frequently been traced to stress, and a fish that is built to grow but is prevented from doing so by the physical restriction of the tank with the accompanying poorer water qualtiy (in relation to the fish's needs) is bound to experience stress.

One of the obvious issues is poisoning from ammonia. It is known that even levels of ammonia that are well below toxic to a fish can hamper the fish's growth. Fish produce waste, and as I have written elsewhere no filter can remove the urine and liquefied solid waste, only a water change does this. The smaller the volume of water in relation to the fish--including their number and size as this affects the amount of waste entering the water continually--the more toxic it becomes within hours. Experiments carried out by knowledgeable individuals like Jack Whattley and David Boruchowitz have proven that it is the water quality more than the physical dimensions of smaller tanks that impact most on a potentially large fish.

Where this leads is that any fish with the potential to grow to a large size should only be housed in a tank that provides sufficient space and thus adequate water quality to allow what nature intends for the fish. The relatively fast growth rate of fish will be negatively impacted by inadequate housing long before the physical size of the fish might suggest larger quarters.

Byron.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

thanks i try to keep my water quality as good as possible with doing a 20-30% change a week


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## Kelso (Oct 28, 2009)

Byron said:


> According to information from biologists I have read to date, it is my understanding that fish continue to grow throughout their lives, unlike us for example [except I guess in girth]. Keeping a potentially large fish in a small tank does often negatively affect its growth, but this is not a benign process resulting in the creation of a miniature version of a normal adult; rather it is known as stunting, and this has negative impacts on the fish's health. Internal problems may not manifest themselves for years, but they can lead to an early death for the fish. Immune system problems have frequently been traced to stress, and a fish that is built to grow but is prevented from doing so by the physical restriction of the tank with the accompanying poorer water qualtiy (in relation to the fish's needs) is bound to experience stress.


Hey Byron, you wouldn't happen to have a source for this would you? I'm trying to explain this to a friend of mine, and he won't hear a word I say. If I can get some proof he'll stop keeping an angelfish in a 15 gallon tank.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Kelso said:


> Hey Byron, you wouldn't happen to have a source for this would you? I'm trying to explain this to a friend of mine, and he won't hear a word I say. If I can get some proof he'll stop keeping an angelfish in a 15 gallon tank.


Tell you friend to join the forum...we'll explain and back you up :-D (That is a *VERY *unfortunate set up for an Angel)


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Kelso said:


> Hey Byron, you wouldn't happen to have a source for this would you? I'm trying to explain this to a friend of mine, and he won't hear a word I say. If I can get some proof he'll stop keeping an angelfish in a 15 gallon tank.


The short answer is ask any knowledgeable aquarist, they'll tell him. But yes, there are numerous articles about this if he needs it in writing. One of the best was by Laura Muha in the December 2005 or 2006 issue of TFH entitled "Fish Growth vs. Tank Size" in her then-monthly column "The Skeptical Fishkeeper." Ms. Muha consulted and cited from numerous biologists, scientists and experienced aquarists in presenting her material. More recently, there was a 2-part article in the November and December 2009 issues of TFH by David Boruchowitz on water changes and why they are essential; the reasons touch on the same points about pollution and fish health.

Byron.


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## Kelso (Oct 28, 2009)

I know, I'm upset with him and he's being stubborn. I told him to return the fish...he won't listen. Thanks guys...maybe I'll get him on here or at least find the written article's that will prove to him what he needs to do. He keeps jumping into things and thinks luck will carry him through.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Often the effects of poor aquarium management don't manifest themselves in the fish for months or even years. Internal organ damage to a fish, how can most of us know? But we accept the advice of those who do, and treat our fish accordingly. This individual and others like him will say their fish are fine, this works, blah, blah...then a few months from now the fish will die, but this person will not understand that it died as a direct result of poor care, and had the fish been in a suitably-sized aquarium with a proper environment and water parameters it would have lived much longer. We can only slog on.

B.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

i was going to get a couple of angel fish but i saw a tank with really big ones in at the pet store so i decided to corys and platies instead


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

tommaso889 said:


> i was going to get a couple of angel fish but i saw a tank with really big ones in at the pet store so i decided to corys and platies instead


Good choice, Angels grow to 10-11" and need a min set up of a 55g to have proper room to still swim with their size.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

and also im planning to get rid of my blue gouramis as they are getting aggressive towards eachother chasing echother around the thank and bullying eachother


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## Kelso (Oct 28, 2009)

tommaso889 said:


> and also im planning to get rid of my blue gouramis as they are getting aggressive towards eachother chasing echother around the thank and bullying eachother


Definitely a good choice. My three were so aggressive one died as a direct result of a fight.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

but i dont really know wat to replace them with


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

tommaso889 said:


> thanks i try to keep my water quality as good as possible with doing a 20-30% change a week


This would be a great starting point in a properly stocked aquarium. However, do not be fooled to believe that this would in any way allow you to keep fish which grow to large for your environment.


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## tommaso889 (Nov 14, 2009)

i think i might get some more platy to go with my other 2 as trhey stay quite small


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