# Compatibility



## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

Ok so i want to get close to having a final wish list for fish here soon (im going to start cycle with super dannionos tomorrow. here are the specs for my aquarium right now. now the ph may go down some after the cycle but im not banking on it. Right now my top picks are discus, angels, ropefish, pleco (of course) Loaches, Neons, Some of the larger species of shrimp, some Easy going cichlids. Thanks for you help guys! Money.

What type of substrate? Sand

Water PH? 8.0-8.2

Lighting? x2 Lifeglow 2 tubes

Filtration? Biowheel 450 

Heating? 250 watt Stealth heater

Live plants? Soon to be


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## Fishin Pole (Feb 17, 2009)

You should take your tag line's advice and know more about the fish you want than your fish store......Put down the hookah, and research the fish you want, alot of them are not compatible with each other or your water's high Ph........What size tank are you starting to cycle for these fish?


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

MoneyMitch said:


> Ok so i want to get close to having a final wish list for fish here soon (im going to start cycle with super dannionos tomorrow. here are the specs for my aquarium right now. now the ph may go down some after the cycle but im not banking on it. Right now my top picks are discus, angels, ropefish, pleco (of course) Loaches, Neons, Some of the larger species of shrimp, some Easy going cichlids. Thanks for you help guys! Money.
> 
> What type of substrate? Sand
> 
> ...


What type of loaches? Discus, unless you are lucky enough to be able to find some captive bred who are acclimated to that high of a ph (they exist here in San Diego from a well known breeder) are most likely going to need to be crossed off your list. Not sure on the shrimp or rope fish. I'd say the rest of them are doable, provided you do a very proper & methodical drip acclimation. JMHO.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

with hookah aside Fishinpole.... I also belive in my sig which is why im trying to learn more. i find personal experiance from others alog with google is the best way to gather information. PS its a 55 gal and maybe you should put down the hookah before you try to say something cute  

Back on topic Aunt my LFS does have captive bred discus that are in a ph around 8 right now. and as far as loaches go i guess my question is what types of loaches get along with the widest variety of other species, my goal here is to have a few top level swimmers a good amount of bottom swimmers and a few mid level. just as everyone else i want a colorful tank. i dont have any "african theme" or "S.american theme" just curious to everyones personal exp with the types of fish that i am trying to put together.


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## Fishin Pole (Feb 17, 2009)

with all joking aside, your selecting fish that wont do well in a high Ph........plus the compatibility factors.........With discus your temp should be between 82 or higher for them to feel comfortable, which is too warm for most other fish....Discus also cannot handle very hard water, which with a high Ph, i suspect your is.........Purchasing a R/O unit would take care of this, but with discus requiring alot of water changes (1/3 daily has been recommended by websites and a few breeders i know). the R/O unit will have a hard time producing that much water for them........They would do well with angelfish, but angelfish are usually passive fish also, but if you end up with a pair, aggression will show its ugly face and a discus would become a target in a 55...........Neons are definitely out of the equation, once the angelfish reach maturity they WILL eat the neons, if the ropefish hasnt eaten them all by that time......The ropefish......wont live long in waters that are at a high temp for the discus, plus they dont like bright lights, which you would need for a planted tank that the angels and discus require.......Any shrimp you put in with those 3 types of fish will just be expensive live food (not a bad thing).........The loaches are something i must admit i hac=ve never kept and dont really know alot about, but i do know they like to be with others of their kind, so a minimum of 3 would work best.......If you decide to go with discus, you would be better off with 2 filters in stead of one big one.......Also a 300 watt heater to keep the temp at the degree that discus require would be the better option or possibly 2 200 watt heaters........You still have alot of research and ecision making to do for this tank to ever work for you in the long term


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

so ive done some googling and decided agianst all of those fish.. maybe get the angels still but idk if itll work. im thinking of getting maybe a tiger oscar or two and then some rift lakes since they like the hard water. that way i can have a pretty colorful tank but still be working with what i have. just curious if i could get angels in with them. any experience with angels and oscars in the same tank?


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

The angels wouldn't stand a chance against oscars. :-(


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## Fishin Pole (Feb 17, 2009)

i wouldnt trust an oscar in a tank with any angels..........For the mostpart, angels are rather passive unless you have a mating pair, then they show some aggression towards tankmates.......The other thing to consider with angels is they like alot of tall plants to feel comfortable in the tank, with most oscars, they will rip and tear your plants up.......With the high Ph of your water, i think african cichlids are your best option, but they are really tough for compatibility issues......being a cichlid owner for over 20years it can be tough to find the right combo with them also.......It will probably come done to trial and error with africans and each individual fish have different personalities in the same species......They are beautiful ans much as they are nasty......I wish you the best of luck with figuring out what wil work for you and your tank........


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

thanks for the info FP, tell me if this assumption is wrong or not. if i were to combo angels with the other cichlids i was going to intentionally buy a male and female so that they would pair up. but that pairing up process idk anything about nor do i plan on breeding. the reason is so that they angels wont be picked on by the oscars or any of the other people in the tank. i know oscars and pretty much every cichlid can be aggro was just thinking about getting fish that woult let others push them around. i mean ive never seen it but can fish with no teeth really kill another fish? as far as plants go im not to concerd about them uprooting the plants as i got like 1 -2 inches of sand to root them in and plenty of rocks to anchor them if need be.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I've read through this thread, glad I waited because the initial fish list had scary things in it, but that's all out now.

Re the fish with no teeth... Most all fish have teeth, exceptions being the catfish. All characins have teeth, at least in the post-larval form (Gery), and as far as I recall, the cichlids do. Dentition often plays a significant role in fish identification, determining which genus for new speices, etc. But besides this, it is certainly possible for one fish to easily kill another without taking a bite.

I would not mix African rift lake cichlids with any other fish (exception being some catfish/plecos suitable for those conditions). These fish are like poles apart from other freshwater fish, closer to marine fish many scientists maintain. They evolved in complete isolation and the species are endemic to their respective lake. A fascinating group of fish to be sure, but worthy of their own aquarium.

Aside from other considerations, sedate angelfish would be terrorized by rough cichlids. These are sedate, calm water fish, programmed by evolution to gracefully swim amongst reeds, tree trunks and branches, in quiet warm waters; the patterning of the wild fsh along with their physical structure is the clue to this. The stress of tankmates like oscars or similar large boistrous/aggressive fish would easily lead to health issues and probably death [following up my comment above].

A thought on plants, if you intend a planted aquarium (at whatever level) plant it at the beginning if you can get the plants. Plants will cycle the tank on the first day with fish in it, end of "new tank syndrome," provided there are enough of them.Plants cannot photosynthesize (grow) without ammonium, and ammonium comes from ammonia; in acidic water the plants remove the ammonium directly (ammonia basically changes to ammonium in acidic water), and in basic (alkaline) water the plants grab the ammonia and internally convert it to ammonium to use. It is also believed that they can use nitrite the same way. And they do it so effectively that in a planted tank the bacteria are the second in line when it comes to removing ammonia and nitrite. Plants filter water signficantly better than any filter we can stick on the tank, and in whatever numbers.

Byron.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

crazy about the teeth thing, so are you saying the oscars and other cichlids would just be too much of a mental factor of the angels? i mean if i buy all my fish young and grow them up together but have more of the angels than anythinng else you still dont think it would work? i have more than enough caves and things for anything to hide in if they really want to. a guy said angels can get pretty aggro when they pair up. i mean what ever happend to the old seighn Strength in num,bers? i.e More angels? is the approach of putting (just for example) piranah with bluegill just not a good way to go even if they are raised from young? i mean i understand there might be some chasing going on but if raised from young cant fish "learn" to live with others?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

MoneyMitch said:


> crazy about the teeth thing, so are you saying the oscars and other cichlids would just be too much of a mental factor of the angels? i mean if i buy all my fish young and grow them up together but have more of the angels than anythinng else you still dont think it would work? i have more than enough caves and things for anything to hide in if they really want to. a guy said angels can get pretty aggro when they pair up. i mean what ever happend to the old seighn Strength in num,bers? i.e More angels? is the approach of putting (just for example) piranah with bluegill just not a good way to go even if they are raised from young? i mean i understand there might be some chasing going on but if raised from young cant fish "learn" to live with others?


Money, you cannot change the behaviourial blueprint of fish. Any more than you can get a grizzly bear cub and when it is full grown assume that it will never revert to its natural behaviour just because it has grown up near you. Animals have their basic instincts and we can't change them.

An example from my own aquaria: I got a group of 9 Aphyocharax paraguayensis one time, and put them in my 90g planted tank. They are small fish, 4.5 cm max, described in Baensch as "peaceful community fish." I knew from other sources that they are active and a bit boistrous, and sometimes nippy, but they would be with all smallish characins, no angels or long-fins to worry about, and in a larger group such tendancies do sometimes wane a bit (e.g., this is said of tiger barbs).

Well, the second morning I went to feed the fish, and all I could find in a 90g tank of some 85 fish were these nine tetras. All the other fish were cowering amongst the plants. I put in the flake, some of the others came out to eat, and got chased back and wouldn't venture out again. No biting, just "playful" chasing. After a day and a half of seeing nothing in my tank but 9 tiny tetras, they came out. Within hours the other fish began to venture out, a bit pale in colour, and it took a couple more days for them to regain their confidence that the "terrors" were really gone. Then ich broke out, brought on not by the new fish, but by the stress I had unwittingly thrust upon them.

Fish when young are still growing, just like people, and may not exhibit their true colours, so to speak. And some people have this fish or that fish and it behaves contrary to the norm, but this is the exception--and you never know when it will not revert to its natural tendancy. On another recent thread, someone had angels and (I think) some tetras in a tank, and added a group of cardinals. Within hours the cardinals started disappearing--into the angels' mouths. It's their natural instinct. And like we have been discussing in other threads, the safest way to ensure the health and well-being of your fish is to provide the most natural environment. Don't risk their health by introducing tankmates that have the distinct possibility of being problematical.

Byron.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

man i forgot how hard choosing a stock list really is. i mean i used to have a oscar before but had to get rid of him cause he was just to big and i was young then and couldn't get a new tank. im going to do some more googling and when i think ive found sdomething ill throw it to ya guys and see what everyone thinks. thanks for your input everyone. Money


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

alright ive done some backround on these guys and they all prefer higher ph which i do have and they are all considerd "mild" as far as aggro goes. so heres the revised list

Earth Eater
Firemouth
flag cichlids
and those random s.american fishes that every lfs seems to have tell me how you think they would all get along. and if anyone can think which one of these fish would be the most pricest and hardest to find. (still havent asked my lfs if they will order anything in for me yet) thanks in advance everyone~


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

~bump~


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

does nobody know??????


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

Great info!!!!!!! lfs was more helpfull than anyone else


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

I had no idea so I couldn't say! What did you end up coming home with from the LFS???


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

its cool but out of everyone im sure someone coulda had atleast some info. i didnt buy anything today just went for info. they said everything should be fine as long as i dont overstock it and that i have plenty of hiding places for everything. They also said that these fish would better suit my water than the other fish i had in mind and that they can also order anything i need from them all i need to do is pay in advance and tell them what i want no s&h just market price


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I have not kept any of the fish on your list, so could not help either.
Sounds like a nice LFS you have, wish I had a store that would order in for me.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

yeah this place is great, got a discount card that gets me 25% off fish ontop of any sales they have (currently they have a 40% off freshwater so combined with my membership its 65% off fish) not to mention the card was only 9.99 AND it gets me 15% off of everything else ontop of any specials


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Is this Aquarium Adventure?
Its only an hour away from me, not sure why I have not been there yet. When I get some money saved up, I need to make the trip.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

yea it is, the place is great its like a mega mall of fish ask to talk to their freshwater supivisor and sweet talk them about the fish ordering i go to the one here about once a week and talk to him on a regular basis. they also have a a quarantine time on all of their fish before they put them on the store front Great place A++ in service,Advice and selection. Money


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