# Help: Entire Betta Sorority is Dead! No obvious cause.



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

1. Size of tank? 25gal

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia? 0
d. pH? 7.6+
e. Test kit? API test kit (sorry, lost most of it in the move)

3. Temperature? 78

4. FW (fresh water)

5. How long the aquarium has been set up?
Nearly a year

6.What fish do you have?
5 female bettas (all dead), 6 kuhlii loaches (doing fine), and one ADF (gift from boyfriend. Will get more).
I've had the bettas anywhere from 2 weeks to 1 year. They all got along and had no previous symptoms of fights or illness and showed no real signs after the fact. Kuhlii loaches have been there 1 year. ADF 1 week.

7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period?
Only 48hrs save for the frog who had to be placed in a floating container in the tank which unfortunately sunk within a few hours. All new fish are usually slowly acclimated to water temp and chemistry.

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants?
Lots of live plants. I worry something could have been transfered from my 10gal tank when I transfered plants. When everything died in it, I assumed it was from the move. I also have 1 fake floating plant they used as a bed.

b. Sand, gravel, barebottom?
Supernaturals Sand

c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors?
Yes. There is one rainbow cave, one cave made from PVC that was made to be aquarium safe, and 2 glass ones.

9.
a. Filtration? Tetra 10-30i
b. Heater? Yes. It's also adjustable

10.
a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used?
12pm-7pm. I use a light timer. A florescent specifically for plant growth.

b. Any sunlight exposure?
Only a tiny bit of indirect natural light from window several feet away.

11. a. Water change schedule? 20% once a week unless sick then 50% every 2 weeks

c. Well water, tap water, RO water?
Use to be well, but now city water since move 3 weeks ago.

d. Water conditioner used?
Has been API conditioner + stress coat, but am switching to Prime

e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed? Every other water change.

12. Foods?
How often are they fed?
Bettas: daily alternating between Omega One Betta Buffet and Hikari Tropical Micro pellets
Loaches: daily alternating between Omega One Shrimp pellets (x4) and Veggie Rounds (1 round)
ADF: frozen bloodworms. A piece of a cube one a day to every other day.

13.
a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
Honestly no! They were all perfectly fine last night. I came back from my errands to find 4 floating and 1 at the bottom with it's nose pointing down. The floating ones were all in the floating plastic plant they sleep in, so it had to have happened last night. I saw them and the loaches swimming around at 3am. Three were swollen when I found them. No damage to fins seen. The fins decayed after I took them out though.

b. Appearance of poop?
Didn't find any.

c. Appearance of gills? Normal last night. Hard to tell now.

14.
a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? No
b. What meds were used?

15. I took a pic and uploaded it to my folder. It nearly made me vomit it was so disgusting. The largest (Twilight) must have died first because she was the most decayed. By that logic, the smallest must have gone last because she looked the least decayed. I'm scared that everything else is gonna die too. :'(

WARNING: The following images are graphic. The girls decayed since they died. The largest ones have lost their fins. Only click if you think seeing them will help you diagnose the problem.

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/members/44135/album/emergency-album-5175/dead-girls-2-127586.jpg
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/members/44135/album/emergency-album-5175/dead-girls-1-127570.jpg

If they don't show (sometimes they won't), check out my emergency album. They are located there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

New info
Algae in tank is also all dead.
Water could have silver according to a friend (bubbles in water from tap, strong chemical odor accompanied by rotten egg smell on 2 occasions)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

I meant sulfer, not silver! My phone keeps autocorrecting sulfer to silver for some reason.

I need help for my other fish and to do that, I need help figuring out what happened to my bettas. Somebody has to know something I should do 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Do you have well water or city water? 
I'm feeling even if you have sulfur that might not be the culprit. To my knowledge activated carbon is the easiest defense against sulfur in your water . 
What are the results of your most recent water test? It's suspicious that all the girls died after the move and so fast ... The speed of death is pointing to water .. So you're looking in the same direction I would . Also I'm curious when was the last fish you purchased for this tank introduced ? Were there any major changes that surrounded this move you made 3weeks ago? 


Did you ever test the PH GH and KH of the water at your last place ? And the water you're now on? I'm wondering how drastic of a change it was. 

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

The frog was the last introdused a week ago. He died last night.

City water. And the filter was changed 3 weeks ago, but when I checked it yesterday, the filter was black! It looked months old. When I rinsed the new one before putting it in the tank, it made a LOT of noise. Like it was reacting to the tap water.

All my numbers were fine last month. Like I said, I lots most of my kit somehow. I packed it up about 2 weeks before the move, but when I started unpacking, I couldn't find anything but the ammonia and pH. Gonna go to PetSmart and have them test. Can't afford a new kit for a couple months.

The water is different. Everything else is the same. They were put in old water I brought for about a week, then 20% new water until 5 days ago when I added more new to fill it the rest of the way. My non-planted 10gal tank had a massive die out about a week after moving in. I hadn't planted it yet.

Why would every bit of algae (even black) die? It sounds suspicious to me, but I have no clue what it could mean. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Hmm., well as the test says it's not ammonia .. But did you keep the old filter media during the move? Kept it damp? Old tank water isn't going to carry you bb. The bb lives in the filter and the substrate . In a properly filtered tank most will live in the filter so perhaps a nitrite spike ? Maybe the tanks have been sent into a mini cycle . 

Unfortunately it still could be disease as the frog wasn't qtd really ? But I still have my $ on some kind of poisoning be it from the source water or the tank mini cycling . I wish I had a quicker answer for this one but looks like we will have to dig a bit before we find it :-/ . How do the kuhlis look today ? Are they active ? 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

Kuhliis are active and eating. The old filter media was in there the first week and it was kept wet. It also has one of those filters that holds the bacteria which is still in there. Got the test results. (Old tank numbers in parentheses)
pH: 7.8 (6.7)
Nitrate: 20 mg/L but this was AFTER adding a dose of prime
Nitrite: 0
Hardness: 80mg/L (5)
Alkalinity: 140mg/L (very low)

They no longer test for heavy metals and such.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Oh Bluewind, I'm so sorry for your loss. This is devastating after finally getting the move you wanted/needed. Congrats on that part! 

Chlorine? Sometimes municipalities do a chlorine dump at various times and they don't tell anyone they are doing it. Do you know if there was any gasping? fin clamping?.... or did you just find them all like this? Gah!! 
Do you use Prime? If you keep even a small bottle in the house you can dose up to 5x in an emergency... or any time you smell chlorine you should dose the tank volume... not the water change volume. Heavy chlorine will crash a tank for sure. 

Hope we can sort this out.


----------



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

The tank tested negative for chlorine and chlorimine. And there was literaly no symptoms pre-death. They all ate well and were swimming normally. Twilight had some slight unexplained fin shredding, but that's it.

Another observation: Could the 10gal be an isolated incident and the 25gal death be caused by something else? The frog was being fed frozen bloodworms and the bettas ate some of them. Could something have been wrong with the bloodworms?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm so sorry about your fish Bluewind  

As for the bloodworms, it's unlikely that they're the culprit unless they were loaded with some disease or bacteria.

My guess would be that Mr. Frog introduced something into the tank as that is the one thing out of the norm and given the rapid die off of the tank. 

But getting back to the water.... is there any way you can call the water dept. and see if they added something to the supply in the meantime? They can also issue you a report about what's in your water.

The thing that has me most puzzled is that the algae disappeared overnight :dunno: That signifies a pretty significant change to conditions.


----------



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

Uh-oh, I did some research and I only partly thawed the bloodworms on a plate before introdusing them so that they would stay in a clump. Your supposed to thaw them completely IN TANK WATER before adding them. You see, they loose moisture when their frozen. These were also the only brand they had and wasn't one I've seen readily recommended on here. When you soak frozen bloodworms, they swell. When you don't and they fish eat them, they don't get a chance to swell until they hit the stomach. In some fish this is no problem, but bettas are pigs. I also fed the frog daily, so it was available. When the worms hit the stomach, the swell. And swell. And swell. Sometimes the fish is okay. Other times, their stomachs basically pop like a balloon. It explained the bloating I noticed after death and the fact one had popped. I had originally attributed it to decay. Also, I feed them around 7pm which explains the nighttime deaths.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

As easy an explanation as that seems I highly doubt that . I've never thawed a single bit of frozen food in tank water . This scare tactic of swelling is nonsense . Freeze dried swells as moisture is sucked out of it but not frozen . Frozen can be thawed for 5mn or 5hrs and will not be any larger at 5hrs. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

Well... that's what I was told anyway. Scared the people at PetSmart enough that they gave me free girls, free frogs, and free food, so not a total loss. If it was a disease the frog had, it was still the cause of everything dying.

These were the cheep worms. I put them in water and they actually did swell! Maybe they had a disease in them or weren't properly packaged. They were sitting right below a shelf that had mice and rats that were recalled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Well I guess you'll know if there's an issue with your water soon enough now that you've got all new stock. 

I suppose there is always a slim chance that your had a bad batch of worms that killed everything but I'm still a little skeptical about it. I could see one or two but not an entire tank?

I hope you dont' have to go through that again  Crossing fingers for you. Keep us posted.


----------



## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

Okay hun. And thanks. I just went up there to give them a heads up that it could have been what killed my fish so they could warn other customers and they said since it was most likely their fault everything had died, they wanted to replace the girls, the frogs, and the food. They gave me frog and tadpole bites instead of bloodworms, so here's hoping the 2 frogs like it. The people who work at my PetSmart are actually very nice, especially the managers.

Like I said, they all died after eating the worms. The loaches didn't have any of them and still are fine and eating normal. I tested everything under the sun and ruled out everything I can think of. If these girls live, I can guess it's not a water problem.


I'm not mean enough to test the worms to see if that's it, at least until I've ruled out every other possibility. Maybe after a few months I can get a few of feeder fish and put them in my 10gal and feed them a mix of regular food and those worms (prepared the same as they were for the other tank) and watch for effects. If they survive, I'll give them to the local retirement home for their big tank (we're on the same water system and only a few miles apart so it won't be a major adjustment for them). I couldn't afford or have the heart to do it to bettas, but feeder fish who were going to end up another fish's dinner (or a reptile's dinner), it wouldn't be AS hard. If they survive, they will get a big beautiful home after all. If they don't... their sacrifice will be throughly documented to save other aquatic pets' lives. I know that it would not only be important to me, but the aquatic community as well, but it goes against what I strive for as a fishkeeper and puts them at risk on purpose 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

That sounds like a good plan to me. That way, at least you'll know. 

And yeah, I wouldn't give any new fish that same batch-o-nasty. I wouldn't take the chance either.


----------

