# The BEST beginner fish



## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

For good beginner fish there are bettas and what else? I think guppies, glo-fish, cories and certain tetras? This is for my freind, you wants a tank sooo bad. She emailed me 3 times about what fish to get  She'll know A LOT more then me when I started.


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

You know. . . it all depends FIRST on the type of water she has out of tap, and secondly - what size tank does she want to start with?  Wonderful of you to help a friend do it right from the start!


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

I have no idea for either. I just need fish in general. So far I have told her bettas in a 5 gallon heated filtered. Her list of fish she wants is:
Pleco (the big kind)
Red tailed shark
Dalmation molly
Swordtail
Guppy Platy
Glass catfish
Albino cory
Neon Tetra
Zebra danio


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Water does play a big role. There are some fish that are easy, but only if you have the right setup and water. Take goldfish for instance. They are some pretty hardy fish, but they need large tanks and hard water to really thrive. The would not do well in a 20 gal setup with really soft water, but something like kuhli loaches might. 

Personally, if I had to pick the best fish for a (let's say 29 gal tank) I would say choose between Von Rio tetra (_Hyphessobrycon flammeus_), X-ray tetra (_Pristella maxillaris_), Bronze Cory, Bloodfin tetra, and Cherry Barb. Betta are good, but most people don't want to start out with one fish.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

I think the tank going to be less then 20g. I am just getting a general idea, then you have the list and narrow it down. I chose the fish I liked by looks, then tank size, then water stuff. 
Say water didnt matter at all, what would you get? I think she might be joining, I'l email her.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Try to encourage her to get a 20 gal or a 29 gal. So many more options with these sized tanks. 

Frankly if water didn't matter and it was a 29 gal tank, I would get a school of cories on the bottom, a school of glowlights. I really like those little guys and they're pretty hardy. That setup could even work in a 20 gal tank but with few number of fish.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Platies would be a better choice than swords if the tank is shorter. Swords are speedy fish and a longer tank is preferable for them.

The Redtail shark is the only fish on her list that is a confirmed troublemaker. Definitely a* no* on that one, unless she is intent on getting a bigger tank. These are not large fish, but they are territorial and sometimes downright aggressive for reasons that defy explanation.

Why on earth put Large Pleco on this list!? These fish get huge (16")! Smaller loricarids like ancistrus or peckoltias are far better choices for medium sized tanks. Bear in mind, too, that alleged algae eaters and bottom feeders are not mandatory additions. There is no good reason to have them unless you want them. Really really want them. Your tank will not be cleaner, you algae problems will not be fewer, and you will not get a pass on having to do just as much maintenance.

I see it this way:

If the water conditions are softer/neutral/ acidic, concentrate on tetras, cories and possibly even dwarf cichlids.

If water is harder and more basic, livebearers would be the better choice. And probably zebras could be combined here as well. 

I would stick with normal shaped and less fancy varieties of mollies, platies and guppies if this is her first tank, and remember that these fish will breed, cross-breed and reproduce with amazing speed, so selection of all males may be a good plan.

What an exciting project! Good luck!
Randy


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Glass cats are delicate little things whose needs should be considered carefully. They must be kept in shoals and are easy victims to more rambunctious and nippy tank-mates. I imagine a redtail shark would have these little guys completely cowed and terrorized within a few minutes.

I would discourage her from including these unless they are carefully researched, water conditions are favorable and tankmates are selected with utmost care.
Best!

Randy


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Most fish are equally easy to keep provided the tank is cycled.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

I gotta do something I rarely do, Jaysee: disagree with you! I know! I can't believe it either!

You're a pro, that's number one, with a wide experience with all kinds of fish. I mean, look at your resume' down there at the bottom of your post! Things that for you are now second nature are completely foreign to a newbie. Let's face it: lots of novices don't even know how to pick out a healthy fish in the first place. Novices also aren't very well attuned to how their fish "look" when something is becoming a problem. Those two factors alone allow you to avoid and prevent myriad problems that all too often affect people new to the hobby.

Second, water really is an issue in some areas of the country more than others. I can get away with quite a lot given the water I have, but not everyone can say that. There's one thread where this lttle gal is dealing with pH 9 well water. She shouldn't be attempting tetras, but she'd do great with Tanganyikans!


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

She cant have a big tnak because she has to move between her gummy's and her dads and a big tank would be too hard. She emailed that she would love a 5 gallon with a betta (heated and filtered, of course ) and she made fun of me for saying 'The betta will tank you so so so so so much'. 
She knows that plecos et huge, her uncle has one in his 100g gallon tank. She has a swordtail in that tank and had a molly.
What other creatures could go in there? Ghost shrimp, a snail. Arowana?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Yes, a mini arrowana would fit nicely in the the 5 with the betta, and maybe even a mini goldfish. Mini fish are VERY hard to come by though.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Aside from a betta what could work? The dimensions are 16" x 8" x 10" (lxwxh) So if you shouldn't have fish that are bigger then 3 inches (less then 1 fifth of the tank length). 
ADF and certian small tetras?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

If she's not looking for anything big, then a 5 gal with a betta is a great choice! Just make sure she keeps the filter media wet. And it's probably a good idea to have live plants to help with any little ammonia spikes that come from moving the tank. 

If she has mollies in a 100 gal tank at her uncle's they wouldn't be there for long with an arrowana. :lol: 

She could get a small snail for her 5 gal betta tank, but I don't think shrimp would take too kindly to being moved around a lot. Maybe a rabbit snail or an apple snail?


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Nah, tetra really do need more space to spread out in, and should be kept in a shoal. I'd stick with the betta - it WILL tank you, hopefully! How often will she be moving it back and forth? Even 5 gallons is a lot of water to be sloshing around in the back of a car. . . an ADF *MIGHT* work, but it's risky if she has nowhere to put the frog if the Betta is too aggressive and picks on it :/ Koi's right - live plants would be a help here, I'd look into some floaters that would thrive no matter what - this might be the ideal situation for Duckweed (I actually like Duckweed!). My betta LOVES his floating plants - helps to keep his bubble nests together!


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

I had a mini rainbow trout. Actually it was a celestial pearl danio. But it's still too big for a 5 gallon tank cause they like to speed around in schools. And then there are those threadfin rainbowfishes, which speed around in groups like maniacs, so they are too big for this tank too. 


Pearl, does your friend envision the large pleco reclining in the five gallon tank with its tail hanging out one end? Kind of like Darryl Hannah in Tom Hanks' bathtub in the movie "Splash"?

Just curious. As I recall, Darryl was much cuter than a Pleco in that movie. . .


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

MAN!!! I LOVED that movie when I was a kid! Splash. . . I'll have to see if I can get that on Netflix! Wonder if my mermaid-obsessed 5-year old would like it. . . I can just SEE a full grown Pleco lounging in a 5g! Too funny. . .

It's funny, but all of the fish stores still very much give people the impression that a Pleco is a necessary part of the freshwater tank. . . even small tanks! I fell into this trap, and everyone I knew prior to this site had or has a pleco in their ill-managed tank. Mine has since been rehomed, but . . . I do have to wonder WHY this rumor has continued despite all facts!


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

I know! It seems everyone has an uncle or older brother who has a huge tank with a damned oscar that he feeds live goldfish to and a big ol' pleco. And this dude is supposed to be the "family fish expert". And everybody in the family who gets an aquarium is told to listen to this idiot: "Oh you have fish? You should go talk to Uncle Frankie! Uncle Frank, little Nicky here has fish. Tell him what he should do."

Uncle Frankie finishes his fifth beer and his eleventh marlboro and says "Do you got a sucker fish? Man! You gotta get a suckerfish so it can eat all the sh__ in the tank."

So everyone does this. Having a sailfin pleco grow from a two inch juvenile to a foot-long statue is the hallmark of good fish-keeping. You can see this sad progression everywhere you go: from "once-thriving tank" to "death throes final spasm" where only one wizened fish remains, an emaciated angelfish, a skittery silver dollar, accompanied by a huge and immobile pleco attached to the front glass like a rubberized parody of itself. 

I was eating at a Turkish restaurant a couple months ago, and that was in the dining room. That tank I just described. A 75 gallon tank with a mean old green terror in one corner, and a mean old convict in another corner, and a big rubber pleco stuck to the front glass between them. . . Occasionally, the cichlids go at each other, ripping furiously at each other's jaws, then sinking back down in individual misery and boredom.

I swear. You see that tank everywhere. At least I do. And I'm really tired of that tank. The worst feng shui in the world. the Turkish food was bad to begin with, but that tank ruined my appetite, too!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Stop reminding me how beautiful (and alike in color to trout) the little CPD are. I've got no room for another tank! :lol:

Ches, the thing with plecos is an odd obsession. I think it came from the illusion that these fish could clean the tank for you. Because for a while a clean tank meant one free of algae. I don't know if it started as an advertising gimmick for pet stores or just what. But now we know better. And hey, some people actually love those little guys. Frankly I like my ammonia-machines to be in the form of goldfish. ;-)


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Plecos are so great when you get the right kind and you get them because you want them. My ancistrus are spritely little things chasing each other all over, settling down to share a spirulina disk. Great!

But then there's monster pleco. . .the stoical nitrate factory.


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

lol! I know you love your goldies, dear! And you take great care of them, too! There is some sort of odd beauty in a full-grown properly-housed pleco. It isn't for me, but they are amazing animals in their own right, and I can see why some people like them - goldfish, too! I personally LOVE Koi over goldies any day  But that's neither here nor there!!! 

Pearl, it looks like you're on your way to getting some good advice to your friend! Good luck!


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

She knows how big plecos get. Are there actually mini arowanas? 
She doesn't want to get shrimp if they might be eaten, so I email her about the plants. 
Ches, I loves my goldfish but wouldn't want them again. There just kinda . . .dumb, I guess. I found pictures of them a couple days ago. The water was sooo gross!! 
Trying to give her alist of mandatory stuff. Mental block


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

So far the list had:
pH tester
Ammonia tester
Nitrite tester
Freeze-dried bloodworms
Betta pellets
Tropical fish flakes
Eheim Mini by Hagen
25w heater
Aquarium Salt
Gravel or playsand
2 2 gallon buckets
Thermometer (suction cup kind)
Net
Toothbrughes
Gravel cleaners
Lid and hood
2g QT (opt)

Anything I am missing?


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

The african butterflyfish is the closest thing I can imagine to a miniature arowana. But the person who suggested this concept was, I believe, being facetious at the time.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Facetious?


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

It's hard to know for sure, since we have only written text, but the statement was something like " I think a miniature arowana would be a great tank-mate for a betta in a 5 gallon tank.

I thought it was a somewhat sarcastic in tone, yes. Whaty can I say, it made me laugh.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

LOL, yep, throw in a couple red tailed cats and your good to go! Or the Betta is at least ready to go to its grave.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Jaysee is pretty much always sarcastic. ;-)
There are mini arowana, but they are deformed short bodied fish. And still much too big for a 5 gallon anyways.

A mystery snail would be fine with a betta in that tank.
I think you missed nitrate test.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Yes! That was what I was missing! I kept looking at the test thinking what am I missing!


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

The butterfly fish is a relative of the arrowana, but it's doesn't really look anything like one. IMO, golden wonder killis are like mini arrowanas. But, they are way too big for a 5 as well. There are other, smaller species that could be kept in a 5 though, but they are not commonly available.

I do not consider those "mini" arrowanas to be mini any more than a fancy goldfish is a mini. Yes it's smaller, but only because it's deformed. Also, those "mini" arrowanas cost thousands of dollars, AND there is a waiting list for them, since there aren't many fish that have the deformity. They are not bred for it like other species.


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