# Suggestions for 300 gallon tank?



## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Hey guys, as a few of you might remember, I've got my three still young and small goldies, and I'm trying to get a bigger tank for them in the 55-90 gallon range as my budget allows, but it seems that one of my friends knows someone getting rid of a 300 gallon tank.

I have a few questions about all this, since obviously going from my 10 gallon tank to a massive 300 gallon tank is a really big move.

I don't know if it has a filtering system, and if it doesn't I'm assuming even several large HOB filters just won't do the job, so if anyone has suggestions on the route I should go(I don't plan on drilling the tank, and assume it isn't drilled) so it seems like a canister filter would maybe be the right choice?

I'm also curious on if the cycling process would be extremely long for it?
I plan on doing a fishless cycle, I'll see if I can find pure ammonia, since it seems like it would be cheaper than the large amount of shrimp I would need to throw into it.

Obviously the 300 gallon seems like it should be enough for my 3 goldfish even at adulthood, since the highest number I've heard is 80 gallons per goldfish, but would there be enough room for a handful of weather loaches in the future, or maybe a few more goldfish(any clue how many would be too many)

Any other suggestions on good coldwater fish to keep with them?

I plan on using play sand for the substrate, since it seems like my cheapest option(getting a ton of gravel or aquarium sand would cost a fortune compared I'm sure) so does anyone have any thoughts on how much sand would be necessary to fill the tank well, I am guessing about 300 pounds or more, but not sure(just guesstimating by the size of the 50 pound bag I already have, but I know I'll probably need more than that after I've cleaned it and lost a good amount)

I'm going to put in some large rocks I've been hunting for, try to get some driftwood, and there were a few listings I saw on ebay for a pretty large amount of slate (upwards of 30 pounds or more) so I'm thinking that may be the way I go for decorations, but any other suggestions for cheap decor for the tank would be helpful as well!

Right now I don't know the size, or if it comes with a stand or hood, but I am figuring with a tank that large I can have it on the ground for the time being, since in the basement we have solid concrete level floors.


I know this is alot to ask all at once, but any thoughts on any of it would be greatly appreciated!
Unfortunately I haven't heard many details yet, but know she wouldn't tell me if it was cracked, so I'm assuming at worst case re-siliconing it should have it holding water, but it probably holds water as is.

Just found out as I'm writing this, that the owner of the tank currently has nurse sharks in it, and as they were his sons he is trying to sell the sharks(supposedly they're negotioating with the boston aquarium), and then he told the friend who contacted me that she could have the tank, I'm waiting to hear back on if anything is included, but it's looking like I might luck out and it will have the equipment as well(which would be amazing)

After all that I wrote. it seems like I might not need all the advice I asked for, but since I'm not sure if it will have anything included, or if it maybe has cheap filtration or something, I would still love any help!

Thanks alot
Anthony


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## Fusion MK (May 25, 2009)

I would love to answer all of your questions, but I don't have the time.

I would say that in a 300 gallon tank (now that would be huge), you would easily be able to accomodate 12+ goldfish.

I have never seen a canister filter built for any tank over 150 gallons. I would say get 2-3 of a very large canister filter model.

There are not many coldwater fish that are suitable with goldfish -- I would say that you should just try to focus on different types of goldfish for a stunning aquaria.

Hope this helps


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Fusion MK said:


> I would love to answer all of your questions, but I don't have the time.
> 
> I would say that in a 300 gallon tank (now that would be huge), you would easily be able to accomodate 12+ goldfish.
> 
> ...


It looked like in a few places that weather/dojo loaches were suitable to live with goldfish, so I'm hoping to get a few of those, and I'm thinking maybe just two or three more goldfish(I would assume that it's not a problem if the tank is understocked if thats even possible?)

I've got two comets and a common now, so I've been advised to stay away from fancy goldfish, which is fine with me, but I'm not sure how much more there is for non-fancy goldfish, although I've been eying some large white common goldfish, but are there any other interesting goldies that would be able to co-exist?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Shubunkins would be fine with comets/commons.

A couple of thoughts:
1) If you keep the tank on the floor, I'm not sure how well canister filters would work. The pump water back into the tank but the intake works via siphon so if the canister is sitting level with the tank it won't work very well.
2) If he was using it for saltwater fish, there might be a lot of equipment that comes with it that you might not be able to use. Luckily for you this stuff is probably worth a pretty penny so you can resell it to cover some of your losses. Things like protein skimmers, fancy marine lighting, etc.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

iamntbatman said:


> Shubunkins would be fine with comets/commons.
> 
> A couple of thoughts:
> 1) If you keep the tank on the floor, I'm not sure how well canister filters would work. The pump water back into the tank but the intake works via siphon so if the canister is sitting level with the tank it won't work very well.
> 2) If he was using it for saltwater fish, there might be a lot of equipment that comes with it that you might not be able to use. Luckily for you this stuff is probably worth a pretty penny so you can resell it to cover some of your losses. Things like protein skimmers, fancy marine lighting, etc.


The saltwater filtration and such couldn't be cleaned thoroughly and used for freshwater if it was included?

Also, I've apparently seen a bunch of shubunkins at te stores, I just assumed they were comets with more speckledness lo. I guess they'll be something to look into too.


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## herbwin (Dec 28, 2009)

I would just cycle the tank with the 3 goldfish you own, there is NO WAY 3 goldfish will overoad a 300 gallon unless you feed them a side of beef.

Skip your LFS for the gravel, check building supply/garden stores in your area. Also check them for the slate/rocks, you are throwing money away if you buy them on ebaY.

And, as I'm sure you know, do mot use any marine gravel or coral/shells that may come with the tank.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

herbwin said:


> I would just cycle the tank with the 3 goldfish you own, there is NO WAY 3 goldfish will overoad a 300 gallon unless you feed them a side of beef.
> 
> Skip your LFS for the gravel, check building supply/garden stores in your area. Also check them for the slate/rocks, you are throwing money away if you buy them on ebaY.
> 
> ...


As I figured, I'm planning on going with play sand for the substrate, and I'll poke around quarries and garden stores for slate and such(the large rocks I have I've just been picking up around the yard lol)

I figured the substrate in the tank and decor won't be much use for a freshwater setup, but if theres anything possibly usable, I'll be cleaning it very well(warm water many many times) and giving it the vinegar test, but I'm not counting on having much for decor involved in the deal.

Any clues on if the current saltwater filtration will probably be cleanable for use with freshwater, or if it would be a base by base situation dependant on the filter(s)?


(Also, I kind of want to go with a fishless cycle just so I know everythings working properly, since after over a month, my 10 gallon with the 3 goldfish still has zero nitrites, so I feel like I might be safer doing a fishless cycle to guarantee that it cycles properly)


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## Fusion MK (May 25, 2009)

Saltwater filtration, if left to run by itself in a different tank (a bathtub, perhaps) full of warm water for a few days, should be cleaned out enough to be suitable for freshwater. However, protein skimmers and the like have no place in a freshwater tank.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Fusion MK said:


> Saltwater filtration, if left to run by itself in a different tank (a bathtub, perhaps) full of warm water for a few days, should be cleaned out enough to be suitable for freshwater. However, protein skimmers and the like have no place in a freshwater tank.


I plan on keeping this project as low tech as is healthy, so protein skimmers are something I haven't really looked into.

I'm hoping to stick with a simple play sand substrate, a basic but decent filtration system, and possibly some planting of low-need plants (java mosses and such)

I'd like to be able to have the tank established and healthy, and not overstocked, so that i can keep the maintenance on the lower end (hopefully less than 50 gallon pwc's a week along with regular filter cleaning, or canister changes or whatever is involved with the filtration system I end up with)

I'm not quite sure what more is involved with a tank of that size, but I'm assuming some sort of sump system, or multiple canisters, and then just siphoning/vacuuming the substrate, and mixing up the sand regularly to avoid gas buildup.

At this point, for decoration I'm planning on trying to find cheaper slate and rocks, adding mosses to some of them, and maybe a few large live plants preferably, but the plants are still something I'm looking into.


Is there alot more involved in large tank care that I'm missing here, I imagine it's a whole nother ball game than just having a hob filter and doing small water changes in my 10 gallon, but I'm really not sure how big of a difference I'm really going to be getting myself into.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, "filtration" for a saltwater tank can mean a lot of things. Basically, the same type of filtration you'd want on a freshwater tank, i.e. the type that provides places for bacteria to grow with the ultimate goal of turning ammonia into nitrate, are discouraged in saltwater tanks these days. Such filtration systems are described as "nitrate factories" and because nitrate is so much more harmful in saltwater than in fresh, they're best avoided. Instead, saltwater hobbyists use things like sumps that include live rock rubble, refugiums with macro algae, protein skimmers, deep sand beds (in both the sump/refugium and display tank) and live rock in the display itself to provide filtration. Essentially, the algae in the refugium eats up nitrate and thus discourages algae growth in the display, the sand beds and live rock provide places for anaerobic bacteria which converts nitrate to nitrogen gas to develop and the protein skimmer removes larger waste molecules that contribute to nitrate buildup.

Long story short, it's a very different sort of animal than freshwater filtration. However, that doesn't mean that whoever owns this thing isn't "doing it wrong." He may very well have a whole bunch of "nitrate factories" on that tank, i.e. canister filters, HOB filters, etc. If he does, they can be cleaned thoroughly and used on a freshwater tank no problem. Some of the HOB protein skimmers are sort of combination filters/skimmers and can be used as plain ol' filters (I have a Skilter 250 HOB skimmer that works as a power filter so long as you don't hook up an air pump and use the skimmer tray on top). I guess once you get more details about what exactly comes with the tank you can list it here and we can tell you what will be useful and what won't. Like I said, some of this stuff could be worth a lot of money (protein skimmers, live rock, marine lighting systems, etc.) so would be worth selling and replacing with cheaper freshwater equipment.


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## karjean (Feb 4, 2010)

Good luck on setting up the new aquarium.


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## Fusion MK (May 25, 2009)

Java moss is a tropical plant, and you have the intention of growing it in a coldwater tank. The java moss may live, but most likely it will die. Perchance you would consider hornwort?


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Fusion MK said:


> Java moss is a tropical plant, and you have the intention of growing it in a coldwater tank. The java moss may live, but most likely it will die. Perchance you would consider hornwort?



The java moss is just one of the things I've seen that's supposed to be hard to kill.

I don't really have a preferance on the plants, easy to care for and not expensive are my only two desires really.

I'm still waiting to hear back on the tank, and if I do get it, there'll be the big process of cleaning everything really well, selling/trading and so on the stuff I can't use for stuff I can use, then I'll probably be fishless cycling it, so if all does work out and I do end up with this amazing tank, it'll still be awhile before it's too late to decide on plants.

Just looked up a few pictures, and hornwort does look really cool, so I definitely wouldn't mind having some of that in the tank, but like I said, everything's still highly debatable... except for three of it's inhabitants lol.

Hopefully I hear about it soon, so i can start a little more indepth planning, and finding out what exactly will be with it.

But as for right now, I've at least got it pegged to playsand for a substrate, the three goldfish and probably a few more, possibly weather loaches in the future, and rocks/slate/plants/anything else cheap and suitable for the tank, since I haven't really seen any tank decor I didn't like, and I don't really think a 60 dollar pirate ship or fish house looks any better than five dollars worth of rubble.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Looking quite hopeful right now, was just told a little while ago that they are bringing the sharks to an aquarium tomorrow, and he is even willing to bring the tank to me tomorrow.

I'm still kind of in awe at the thought of someone giving me a free tank above 10 gallons, let alone bring it to me, so I'm still banking on this falling through, but if it does work, which is seems like it will, it's going to be in my opinion the coolest goldfish tank in at least my town.

Still going to clean it thoroughly(without soaps and chemicals) see about using what I can/trading what I can't for what i can, and doing a fishless cycle, so it'll still be awhile before it's all set up and established, but I'll probably post some pictures during the process, and definitely after.

Once the tanks established it'll only be the three goldfish for a little while, and I know it's probably a stupid question, but would a few tiny goldfish be overwhelmed or something by having so much space?

I won't be putting them in there without lots and lots of places to hide, and the tank established so I'm not worried about that part, but I'm just not sure if 300 gallons would be overwhelming for three tiny fish until i get a few more.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Castro235 said:


> free


:shock:

You never mentioned that this monster was FREE. Or perhaps you did and I just repressed the memory out of jealousy. Can I have this person's contact info? I will gladly offer them a nice, crisp Alexander Hamilton for it, haha.

I don't think you need to worry about them being "overwhelmed." They'll look small in that big tank but with that much space and a good diet they should start growing pretty quickly.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

iamntbatman said:


> :shock:
> 
> You never mentioned that this monster was FREE. Or perhaps you did and I just repressed the memory out of jealousy. Can I have this person's contact info? I will gladly offer them a nice, crisp Alexander Hamilton for it, haha.
> 
> I don't think you need to worry about them being "overwhelmed." They'll look small in that big tank but with that much space and a good diet they should start growing pretty quickly.


I may or may not have mentioned it... I may have repressed mentioning it was free for fear of being booted by jealous mods =P

I got a text this morning saying they were on their way to the aquarium with the sharks, so this really may happen. I still don't know it's dimensions, but so far at the stores the only monstrous tanks I've seen were 200 and under, so I'm really looking forward to seeing it.

I've seen alot of mixed thoughts on goldfish, and it seems like alot of people frown on the thought of keeping them in anything other than a pond to live out their adult lives, but would a 300 gallon still not be a suitable life-long home for them? It seems like they'll probably have more than enough room in any direction for how big I'm expecting them to get.

Any clue the expected size of two comets and a common?


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## karjean (Feb 4, 2010)

Now you did made me jealous for your tank being free. Enjoy it and i am sure whatever you do with it will be fine. Do not forget to post pictures.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

They can get up to two feet, but if this tank was being used to house sharks I suspect that it's probably not very tall but long and wide, which would be perfect. 300g should definitely be enough for them volume-wise and if the tank has the dimensions I suspect it does it should be ok for them even as adults. They can grow up to two feet as adults but around 18" is more likely so as long as the minimum dimension is about 24" you should be fine.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, there have been a few bumps along the road, they brought the sharks to one aquarium, unfortuntely they didn't want them, and one died in transit, but I guess they sold the other one on monday, and if all goes well I'll be having a three hundred gallon tank dropped off tomorrow afternoon!

I have been thinking alot about some different things with this project, and I was wondering if having my three goldfish in the ten gallon tank for the roughly 1 to 1 and a half months would have any longterm negative effects on them, stunting them or anything like that?
They seem to have grown a decent amount since I initially got them, and they're still under four inches, but I'm just nervous of whether I caused them any serious problems in the future.

Once I get the tank I'm assuming it'll be a big task cleaning everything very well, since it has been a saltwater tank, and then I need to get the decor(still looking for cheap slate and rocks mostly, then maybe some hornwort, and some digging for more good cold freshwater plants)

After all is decorated, I really want to do a fishless cycle so i can know it's cycled properly, then I'll be adding the three goldfish I have, and I've been looking into some new tankmates.

I want to get a few more goldfish, and the healthiest ones I've been seeing are about 4-6 inches, so I plan on waiting until my goldies are in the same size range, and I've also been poking at the dragon goby's they have. I believe they said they were violet goby's, and when I asked they said they come from a breeder, are entirely bred and raised in captivity in freshwater, so I'm hoping they should be okay without the brackish water, I only want one or maybe two of them, I've been toying with the idea of freshwater clams, since I saw some cheap on ebay, and it seems like they would help keeping my sand stirred up(even though I plan on stirring it with my regular pwc's) but I couldn't find much on keeping the clams with the other fish, and it almost seems like I might need to keep the water at a different hardness for them to do well.

Lastly my mom insists she would love some dwarf frogs since I mentioned something about them along time ago, and I'm not sure if the ones at my lfs are the african dwarf frogs, or the african clawed frogs, or albino, or what, and I've seen mixed reviews around saying that one is okay, but one is deadly to the fish, so I need to find out if they would be okay, and was wondering if anyone had a suggestion for aquatic frogs that would live well with the tank of goldfish, and possibly violet goby's and clams.


The only things set in stone for the tank are that it's going to have goldfish, and it's going to have playsand as the substrate, so any suggestions on what would be good combinations between all the species I mentioned, or even ones that I didn't mention(like cloud minnows which I'm worried about the goldies eating when they get bigger) are greatly appreciated!

I screwed up once when I got my goldfish a month or so ago, so I'd really love to be able to do this as right as I can!


And I'll keep you all posted on how things go with getting the tank are not, but from the sounds of it he has it loaded up on his truck, and him and a friend are going to swing by on his lunch break tomorrow, so I'm really keeping my fingers crossed on this all working out. I'll take a picture of the bare tank and post it in here as soon as I have it if it arrives!


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I really don't think the gobies would work with goldfish. They need higher temperatures, brackish water and can be picky eaters, sometimes only eating live or frozen foods. Goldfish, as you probably know by now, are little pigs which would make it very difficult to get any food to the gobies.

As for frogs, the clawed frogs will eat other fish but they only get about as big around as a baseball or so so they wouldn't be able to eat large goldfish. I think they'd probably be generally safe with goldfish once your fish are big enough. The dwarf frogs stay awfully tiny and are also pokey eaters, plus they're so small that adult goldfish might eat them. My aunt actually has some ~6" common goldfish living with clawed frogs and they seem to get along fine.

I'll have to let other people suggest other species that would do well with large goldies at lower temperatures (I assume the tank will be upper sixties to low seventies?).


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

iamntbatman said:


> I really don't think the gobies would work with goldfish. They need higher temperatures, brackish water and can be picky eaters, sometimes only eating live or frozen foods. Goldfish, as you probably know by now, are little pigs which would make it very difficult to get any food to the gobies.
> 
> As for frogs, the clawed frogs will eat other fish but they only get about as big around as a baseball or so so they wouldn't be able to eat large goldfish. I think they'd probably be generally safe with goldfish once your fish are big enough. The dwarf frogs stay awfully tiny and are also pokey eaters, plus they're so small that adult goldfish might eat them. My aunt actually has some ~6" common goldfish living with clawed frogs and they seem to get along fine.
> 
> I'll have to let other people suggest other species that would do well with large goldies at lower temperatures (I assume the tank will be upper sixties to low seventies?).


I guess I spent more time looking into the freshwater issues and missed the gobies preferring 75 up, oh well, guess I'm back to weather loaches for my eel-like tankmates.

The temps will be in the high 60s to low 70s, the basement where it will be does get quite cold, so I'm going to be keeping close watch on it while it's cycling to figure out if I'll need a heater, but I'm hoping it should stay in the range I'm looking for without any.


Guess I'll probably try the dwarf frogs while the goldfish are still on the small side, and if they get outcompeted for food, I'll either be putting them in the ten gallon or bringing them back to the lfs.

I'll see about the clawed when my goldies are a bit bigger, but by then hopefully my mom won't be so enthused by having an aquatic frog lol.


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