# My fish cycle log...



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi guys,

Ive decided to do a daily log of my water parameters during my 'fish' cycle..Im cycling a 64g planted tank with 6 pearl danios for the cycle.

Im on my first day today and the params are as follows:

PH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0-0.25ppm
nitrite: 0-0.25ppm
nitrate: 0

I think these results would warrant maybe a 20% water change?


----------



## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Yes, I would do a water change. You want to minimize the stress those danios must be feeling. Keep us updated!


----------



## Highland lake13 (Nov 16, 2008)

I would change about 30% because those ammonia and nitrite readings are high, but congratulations on the tank!

~Cam


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Yesterdays readings:
Ammonia - 0-0.25ppm
PH 7.6
Nitrite - 0-0.25ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm

Todays readings:

Ammonia 0-0.25ppm (maybe less definitly not more)
PH 7.6
Nitrite 0-0.25ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

I have been doing 20-30% water changes daily.. Is it possible im having a nitrate spike already?


----------



## satwood (Oct 6, 2007)

Hi,

Test your change water after treating it, before it goes in the tank. When I was first doing this I discovered my tap water had 10 - 20 ppm nitrate and 5 ppm phosphate right from the tap. That meant my nitrates were high even before my tanks were cycled. The baselines get confusing sometimes.


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

My tap water parameters:

PH: 7.5
Ammonia: 0-0.25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0 - 5ppm

Judging on todays results posted previously do people thing im having the nitrate spike already? What do people think I should do next..? Im kinda confused by my results..


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

satwood said:


> Hi,
> 
> Test your change water after treating it, before it goes in the tank. When I was first doing this I discovered my tap water had 10 - 20 ppm nitrate and 5 ppm phosphate right from the tap. That meant my nitrates were high even before my tanks were cycled. The baselines get confusing sometimes.


Do you mean test it after adding the 'stress coat' to it? I tested the tap water and posted the results previously but im not exactly sure what to take from the results...??


----------



## andulrich4all (Nov 21, 2008)

If you have water parameter problems with your tap water, I use the 5 gallon bottled water they have in the front of the food store. It is a Glacier machine and it cost like 1.50 for the 5 gallons, pretty cheap, and its good water.

Just an idea. Good luck with the tank!


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

andulrich4all said:


> If you have water parameter problems with your tap water, I use the 5 gallon bottled water they have in the front of the food store. It is a Glacier machine and it cost like 1.50 for the 5 gallons, pretty cheap, and its good water.
> 
> Just an idea. Good luck with the tank!


Yea I know the ones your talking about I use them all the time when im in the US but we dont have those here in Ireland and even if we did transportation would be a problem because I'd need like 20G a week..

My tap water shouldnt be a major problem...


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Todays Results:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 1.0ppm
PH: 7.6

Didnt bother taking a nitrate test as theres not really any point at this stage..

Im going to do another 30% water change going by the above results..


----------



## andulrich4all (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm not like a pro or anything at this, but I think others may agree and I have heard from my cousin who has had tanks all of his life and from my LFS that you should not do to many water changes in the beginning like that. Basically he said because if you keep pulling all of this stuff out, you are not letting the cycle happen the way it should. You need to let the parameters get a little worse and let the cycle do its natural thing. It can't do that if you keep replenishing it with new water.


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Todays Results after 50% water change:

Ammonia 0 -0.15ppm
Nitrite 0 - 0.25ppm
Ph 7.6
Didnt test nitrate...


----------



## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

It's possible that doing water changes during your cycle can slow the cycling process, but it's necessary for the health of your fish to keep those ammonia and nitrite levels low so I would keep doing what you're doing until the ammonia and nitrite disappear.


----------



## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Changing the water during a cycle won't slow things down. The only way to slow a cycle with a water change is to do a 100% change. The 30 to 50% changes done to keep the levels low and fish healthy don't slow a cycle in the least.

Ammonia in the water that you detect is excess. In other words its uneaten ammonia. Think of it this way. You're sitting at a table eating. Does the amount of food sitting in front of you influence how fast you can eat it? No, it doesn't. Same with bacteria. They can only consume the ammonia so fast, they can only reproduce so fast. Higher concentrations of ammonia do nothing to change that. So long as there is excess ammonia in the tank the bacteria have plenty of food to eat and will consume it and multiply as fast as they can.

Why Water Changes During Cycling Are Good - Tropical Fish Forums

Like iamntbatman said, even if it slowed your cycle you have to do it for the fish's health.


----------



## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm...I'd argue that the math in that post is over-simplified and cannot account for the growth rates of the bacterial colonies. For example, say you've got 1 ppm of ammonia in your water. Your bacteria at this same point in time are capable of consuming 0.25 ppm of ammonia per day. Using that guy's math, even after one day the bacteria colony will only have doubled in size, increasing their ammonia processing rate to 0.5 ppm/day. However...that's just an estimate. What if, for other factors we aren't accounting for, the population could explode to eight times its current size? Such a population explosion would be hamstrung by your ammonia ceiling. But you don't really see that, because your test kits only give you the snapshot, as that article says. I don't see any good reason why bacterial growth rates wouldn't be hindered by artificially low ammonia levels brought about by water changes during the cycling process. But, it's all really a moot point anyway. What difference does it make if your cycle takes a few days longer if it means saving your fish from ammonia exposure? And, if you're cycling fishless, why would you bother to do water changes at all during the cycle?


----------



## Oldman47 (Sep 7, 2007)

Actually all we can measure is the left over ammonia and nitrites, not all that is produced. As long as some is left over, the bacteria are not keeping up. It doesn't matter if the bacteria are losing ground at 1 ppm per day or .01 ppm per day. As long as they can't keep up, they will always have enough food to grow larger populations. When they can keep up we call that cycled which of course is not a problem. It takes no numbers to understand it this way.


----------



## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

The math doesn't perfectly simulate bacterial action but when you look at the experimental data where tanks were actually cycled there is a fairly good correlation between the math and what actually happened. It also jives with plain old common sense. A population explosion is what's happening in your fish tank. Bacteria only do two things, eat and make more bacteria. If they're eating enough they're making more bacteria. The rate of reproduction won't suddenly change because the organisms are too simple not to reproduce as fast as they can.

Growth rates won't be hindered by low ammonia concentrations because any ammonia you read in the water is food they haven't eaten, in other words you're measuring the excess that they can't eat.


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Todays results:

PH 7.6
Nitrite: 0ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm

Im reading no nitrite or ammonia with a 5ppm nitrate after two weks of cycling with 6 pearl danios.. 
Is this a good sign?


----------



## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

I'd keep an eye on it for a day or two but the presence of nitrates after the ammonia and nitrite spikes would lead me to believe you're probably cycled. That's a very fast cycle but... well the water tests seem to point to it.


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I am with Ty on waiting at least five days,seven would be better and test every other day to be sure . The single biggest mistake that people make is adding too many fish too soon after the tank has established it's bacteria colony and by doing so The bacteria cannot keep up with the waste from the fish and the added food that is fed to these new fish. You would do well to add new fish slowly, one or two a week and feed them sparingly twice a day and no more than they can eat in one to two minutes. Perform weekly water changes and keep the filter rinsed out in old water you take out during these weekly changes. when the filter material gets too clogged and rinsing no longer is effective then replace it.


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Added the floss an hour ago.. Just did another test and im reading:

0 nitrites
0 ammonia
5ppm nitrate

Ive been getting the same results for 3 days now (no water changes done)


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Things are looking promising. Have you researched the fish you would like in your tank to ensure that they are compatible with each other and have similar needs as far as water and temp? for instance gold fish and tropical fish would not do well as tropicals require higher temps and goldfish do better at cooler temps. Most cichlids do best with other cichlids and also do better in ph well above neutral or 7.0 Common plecos can get very large and the small bristlenose would be a better choice and they love to eat algae and don't produce near the mess (poop) that the larger ones do. It occurs to me i am rambling so I will close by suggesting as previously that you add fish SLOWLY once you decide what fish you like.;-)


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

1077 said:


> Things are looking promising. Have you researched the fish you would like in your tank to ensure that they are compatible with each other and have similar needs as far as water and temp? for instance gold fish and tropical fish would not do well as tropicals require higher temps and goldfish do better at cooler temps. Most cichlids do best with other cichlids and also do better in ph well above neutral or 7.0 Common plecos can get very large and the small bristlenose would be a better choice and they love to eat algae and don't produce near the mess (poop) that the larger ones do. It occurs to me i am rambling so I will close by suggesting as previously that you add fish SLOWLY once you decide what fish you like.;-)


Im going for a shoal of rummys or harlequins rasborars (about 24 will add in groups og 6 on a weekly basis) 6-8 corys, 6-8 otos, 4 pearl gourami (3f,1m)


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Were it me I would add Three at a time per week. This way the bacteria that you have waited so patiently on to develop can adjust to the waste created by new fish which= ammonia .Otherwise your tank will crash and the cycling or maturing process will need to begin all over. But it's your call ,your tank.;-)


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Tried to edit but was only after the attempt that i was informed that ten minutes had expired.#$%&!!* If you decide to stock the fish at the rate you posted I would wait at least ten days between introducing new fish. I would hold off on the oto's for at least six months. Oto's require lots of algae to eat and new tanks cannot sustain them in the long term. Some will accept algae wafers and fresh veggies but the majority require algae and lots of it for their long term health. A bristlenose pleco would be my choice, they stay small (around five inches) and eat algae as well as any food they may find along the bottom and they are active. Hope some of this helps.;-) PS the time limit on editing posts makes me want to go*&^%#@$ postal!!!


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Todays results:

PH 7.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate 5ppm

Thats 4 days in a row now with no water changes and ive got the same ammonia,nitrite and nitrate results...


----------



## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Probably safe to say its cycled.


----------



## flight50 (Sep 30, 2008)

i have been keeping a log myself since i reset up my 55g. i however did the fishless cycle and i highly recommend it. you probably should have did the same. 1) no fish health to be concerned about. 2) no maintenance other than adding more ammonia. Leave the water and the algae alone. Don't even use lights at this point. I set up my tank 8/31 and its still not 100% cycled. i have no life in the tank, so i can go crazy. i can put 4-8ppm of ammonia in every night. 8-12 hrs for depletion of ammonia is the norm. In my case with my extremes, in 24 hrs I am at 0ppm. This way on a fishless cycle, once its established, you can fully stock your tank because your tank is well populated with bacteria. if you understock your tank, you may loose bacteria though.


----------



## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Actually overstocking is a more serious concern with fishless cycling. If you have sufficient bacteria to support a few fish you have enough to quickly grow your filter if more fish are added. However if you don't have enough you'll expose your new additions to an ammonia spike.

Even with fishless cycling you have to start off your stocking slowly.


----------

