# Fish gasping for air and dying!



## goldfish98

Last night I noticed my fish were gasping for air at the top of the tank. This morning, they are still doing it, except for one. One of my Green Lantern Platys is lying on the bottom of the tank, breathing heavily. He tried to swim, but he floated back down. :-(


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## Sylverclaws

This means there's not enough oxygen in the tank. Also a high possibility of toxins.

Do you have a filter and heater? Need the heater since you have tropical fish...need the filter because you have living things in a tank....

Did you fully(FULLY) cycle the tank? If you just set the thing up and dumped in water and fish, or let it run for a week or two after filling it up, that's not cycling. It takes 4-8+ weeks to properly cycle a tank, and it's a good bit of work too, you also need an ammonia source to start it. If you did NOT properly cycle the tank, and test it for several days after completion to see if it stayed stable, it likely was not and your fish are being poisoned by the system getting itself in order.


Try changing about 35-40% of the water and get a good testing kit(not strips, they're never accurate and pet shops use them often and rarely give numbers. Get the API Master Freshwater Test Kit) to make sure you're going the right way. If the tank isn't properly cycled....I'd send the fish back to the store and get a refund, wait until it's done cycling and then get your fish.
If the tank is cycled or almost finished, there are a few things you can do to help, but no guarantees on survival for the fish. Make sure the temp is proper for your platies(76-78 degrees), and make sure you have the room for them. You can also get a bubbler with an air stone to help out with oxygen, water changes will also help(depending on what your stats are...if you have ammonia you can do two 25-30% changes per day until it evens out), be sure you treat the water good before changes. Seachem Prime is a good water conditioner as it detoxifies nitrites and nitrates and removes ammonia(though it wont stay removed if you have a problem in the tank like over-stocking where the fish make more waste than you can remove).


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## Flear

without knowing anything about your tank

make sure you have no CO2
if you have plants, make sure you give extra light any way possible and if you get algae, then decide what's more important

get a bubbler, or several, or a bubble wand, or whatever else you can get to get some O2 (air) into the water ASAP

if it's toxins, major water changes
major water changes should help with O2 as well actually.

i'm going to guess your green lantern fish (as it's on the bottom) is a lost cause, ... sorry, that sucks

but ya, whatever you can to get some O2 in the tank
whatever you can to get CO2 out of the tank
-bubbler will help with both

Edit:
bubbler -> air pump
but a trip to the store


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## sandybottom

do water change as mentioned above. if you do not have an airstone/air pump,lower the water level a bit so your filter can agitate the water.this is assuming that you are using a filter.i second the suggestion to get a liquid test kit.


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## goldfish98

sandybottom said:


> do water change as mentioned above. if you do not have an airstone/air pump,lower the water level a bit so your filter can agitate the water.this is assuming that you are using a filter.i second the suggestion to get a liquid test kit.


I did a water change the other day. I think he is about to die. He keeps bumping into things.


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## sandybottom

can you tell us about your tank?how long has tank been set up?what is your water changing regimen?what size tank?how many fish?feeding schedule and amount?temp of tank?what chemicals do you use?this includes conditioners.


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## goldfish98

sandybottom said:


> can you tell us about your tank?how long has tank been set up?what is your water changing regimen?what size tank?how many fish?feeding schedule and amount?temp of tank?what chemicals do you use?this includes conditioners.


The tank has been set up since the beginning of october. Its a 10 gallon. I change water once every two weeks, 5 fish, fed once a day at 3 PM, temp 70 degrees.


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## Flear

what equipment do you have in it ?
any pumps, filters, etc. ? (particular anything that causes any agitation to the water, what do you have ?)


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## goldfish98

Yes, one filter and heater. And he just died


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## rsskylight04

goldfish98 said:


> The tank has been set up since the beginning of october. Its a 10 gallon. I change water once every two weeks, 5 fish, fed once a day at 3 PM, temp 70 degrees.


I think 70° is too low for platies. The symptoms you descriibe sounds like nitrate poisoning. Water changes should help your fish by diluting/removing toxins. I would do 25-50% every two to three days. It won't hurt your tank to do water changes as long as the water you put in is dechloronated and up too temp. I only use Prime dechlor.
If it is nitrates, then it is essential that you get those levels down asap because high nitrate harms your fishes gills...might explain the gasping. It is very important to act immediatly because the gill damage is irreversable and potentialy fatal.
Good luck!


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## goldfish98

My test strips don't test for ammonia. but it tests for everything else. 

General Hardness 6.0
PH 6.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10


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## Flear

pH 6.0, you should never have ammonia
nitrates 10, shouldn't be an issue


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## goldfish98

Flear said:


> pH 6.0, you should never have ammonia
> nitrates 10, shouldn't be an issue


What is PH anyway?


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## Flear

i don't know what it stands for (the initials)
as for below, i may not be right, my chemistry knowledge is high school and at least 20 years out of date, otherwise it's random stuff i'm come across on the net while looking up other things, so below is things i remember but otherwise don't care to really study, ... so i could be really wrong on parts (or more)

it's the hydrogen and hydroxin (i dono the name) ... the number of ions floating around in the solution

a ph of 0 would be all H+ ions floating around, pure acid (otherwise fictional)
a ph of 14 would be all OH- floating around, pure base (otherwise fictional)
a ph of 7 would be a balance of H + HO (H2O - and we're familiar with water)

it's a logarithmic scale, like the earthquake scale
a ph change of 6.0-7.0 is a 10x difference
a pH change of 6.0-8.0 is 100x difference

what does all this mean to us who have aquariums, ... absolutely nothing 
it's curiosity 

different chemicals added to the water may add H+ or reduce the H+ availability (either lowering or raising pH)
other chemicals may affect the OH- ... either increasing or decreasing availability and once more adjusting your pH
then pH up, and pH down chemicals come into effect in a tank, ... they are limited in effectiveness by how much is in the water that those chemicals are trying to change, ... in very soft water a very little pH up or down can make a huge difference, ... in very hard water a lot of pH adjust is needed to make the smallest change
it becomes stubborn & resists change the more stuff is in the water trying to move the pH in any direction or another. this is generally a good thing as it keeps our tanks stable, our tanks resist change, and with the water being stable our fish are happier, not stressed as the world around them tries to change from one extreme to another

in the end, what we need to know, ... is it safe for our fish or not, generally from 6.0-9.0 depending on the fish, and i'm sure there are those who want more extreme levels one way or the other, ... this are otherwise safe numbers generally

after that, ... this is definitely not the place to discuss pH, and i'm sure i may be spoken to about going too scientific in a beginners section. ... so i'll leave it here


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## rickey

goldfish98 said:


> What is PH anyway?


1+ for Flear
"Potential of hydrogen" where "p" is short for the German word for power, potenz and H is the element symbol for hydrogen. The H is capitalized because it is standard to capitalize element symbols. this is why the K in Kh is capitalize but the g in gh is not.

R


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## Sylverclaws

Ah, there's your problem. A couple actually. 

The tank is over-stocked if you have platies in a ten gallon, and 70 degrees is WAAY too cold for them. 76 is about right for platies, they like it a tad cooler than other livebearers who hate it below 78. Platies will enjoy a temp six degrees more than what you have them at. At 70 degrees you've slowed their metabolism and opened them up to all manner of illnesses, infections and parasites. 

Platies need to be kept in 15 gallon tanks as a bare minimum(bare minimum meaning live-able, but not preferable to the fish. Only three or four should be put in a tank that small...and they can get on with a group of three but would rather have a group of four or five). It's preferable to have them in a twenty gallon tank in a group of 4-5, they just do not do well in ten gallon tanks at all.

What happened here was you likely had a build up in waste(that's your ammonia at the start, then it goes to nitrites and nitrates, ammonia should be zero when you have fish always, nitrites too, nitrates should not go above 20ppm and are also best at zero), because you had platies in a ten gallon tank..which they can handle for a short period, especially as youngsters...but not as adults or older juveniles. After a few months of them doing "Fine" they suddenly start dropping like flies and getting sick, even with exceptionally great care to your tank. 

Unfortunately I don't think any of your platies will survive long here. You may be able to save the ones you have left, do large water changes, get a bubbler, and use Seachem Prime to treat your water. It stinks! It does, but it's really awesome stuff that may save your fish until you get a bigger tank or find them new homes.

Now once that tank is settled, either cycle a new larger tank, or find new homes for your platies. The ten gallon shouldn't have those in there, it's just too small and can't handle their bioload and group needs. If you want fish in a ten gallon, I would suggest either a single male or female betta, or four guppies(this is touchy...they should really be in fifteen gallons as well), or Endlers Livebearers(not the guppy crosses, N-Class Endlers like black-bar Endlers are awesome and MUCH smaller than guppies even). I would honestly suggest male endlers, males rarely even reach the inch mark, usually staying at 1/2-1/3 inch though some can hit the inch mark, females are much bigger...if you want to breed them you can. And unlike with most livebearers, you can have more males than females here, they aren't as aggressive as male guppies...but it happens so be mindful. Otherwise I'd just get 5-6 males. They ARE pretty, lovely little fish, and a small school of them will make the tank seem active and not empty.


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## goldfish98

I lost another platy overnight. Now all I have is one Green Lantern Platy and one Marigold Wag Swordtail. Its weird, they started acting funny after I put a new decoration in.


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## goldfish98

Oh sorry, I misread the thermometer. You know how it is, when your tired you can't see straight. ;-) Its actually 76.


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## sandybottom

has your ph always been 6?or has it dropped over the last 1/2 year?ph of 6 is low and the tanks bacterial colony is dying off,giving you toxic parameters.what kind of water conditioner are you using?what kind of test kit do you have?you may have to do daily water changes to get the toxins under control until we can find out the cause of your low ph. fill a bucket with your source water,check the ph,add aireation to the bucket.check ph in 24 and 48 hours and report back here.this will tell us what is happening with the ph in your water.


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## Flear

Sandybottom, reminds me of a concern i have with my tank

something killing greenwater culture i add (intentional) ... i think whatever it is, wherever it is, is eating it faster than it's reproducing

and something (could be the same thing, i dono) is killing my Malaysian trumpet snails, ... which as far as snails go, they're damn near immortal (age aside)


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## sandybottom

low ph will eventually kill snails.shells will erode.


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## Flear

the shells are fine, even shells that have been left for months are sitting ontop happy (as much as an empty shell gets) the ph before was off the scale of the regular test kit, (didn't get a high PH test kit)

yes, if the shell erodes enough to expose the back of the snail inside the shell the snails life is over, just waiting for it to die , ... not the case unfortunatly, it really has me at a loss


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## rsskylight04

I'm so sorry your losing your fish and i wish I had an easy answer for you. Your ph of 6.0 is very, very low. 
We need a water chemistry expert here.


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## Flear

maybe just me, ... 
i'm no expert, all i have is this experience as i have done things in a very non-standard way

i would not recommend it for a tank that had any issues

dried and ground up plant prunings, when remineralized in a bucket of water gain a very high pH. ... might be something to consider.

i'd first want to have corrected whatever is causing the fish stress though.

what is the min. reading for the regular pH test kit ?
do they read reliably below 6.0 ?, maybe the pH is low enough that that is the source of the problem, ... stranger things have happened.


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## Sylverclaws

Meh, that sucks that you're losing all your fish like that. I am sorry.

There's another problem: Swordtails in a ten gallon tank? They need 30 gallons minimum and a group of 4-5.

My dear, what you have is an over-stocked and poorly stocked tank, the toxins are killing them and the lack of proper space and groups is stressing them out. That's all there is to it. You need a much larger, cycled tank. 

They have a very wide range of PH they can handle too...platies can handle it from about 6.5 to 8.0. You will want to get it stable before you have fish, or you will have very itchy, stressed out and very uncomfortable fish.

Also, Water test "strips" are inaccurate(I tested out about ten strips once and most DID say the same thing...however when I got a liquid kit, the numbers were far different). You want a liquid test kit. API Master Freshwater Test Kit will test ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, as well as PH and high PH. You will want to get either the liquid test solution for GH, or find it at your water company(call or check online, if you don't know how to figure out the GH from the numbers given...I didn't, ask on here). 


So, you want a proper test kit, a bigger tank or different fish(not much can go in a ten gallon unfortunately), different number of fish, and a STABLE tank! =) Fix those problems and you will have happier, less dead fish. If you keep trying with fish that can't fit in the ten gallon, or with too many, you will just have more sick and dead fish.


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## goldfish98

Thank you for your suggestions, but its too late. The last two died when I was at school.


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## goldfish98

I did use test strips.


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## Sylverclaws

goldfish98 said:


> I did use test strips.


Strips don't work. They're never accurate and don't test for ammonia, which is likely what killed everyone(the build-up from too many fish of the wrong type in a tank too small). You want a LIQUID test kit, hun. Strips just don't work right. You can test with strips all you want, but you will not get proper results...maybe one in a hundred chance of it, but eh.


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## goldfish98

I am going to get a liquid test kit. I want the best for my tank. I am going to start over and do a restock... the right way.


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## Sylverclaws

Good for you, don't give up on it. =) Just make sure you get the right KIND of fish for the tank. 

A ten gallon can't support platies or swordtails. It can support a small group of guppies(4-5) or a proper school of N-Class Endlers(6-8 males or just 6 if you mix the sexes)...or a single male or female betta with a pair of African Dwarf Frogs or snails. Smaller shrimp...Not much else. So be mindful of what you stock and research what you want before you get it so you can make your water parameters proper for them. 

If you DO want platies or the other livebearers aside from Endlers and guppies...you will want to get a much larger tank, 20-25 for platies and 30+ gallons for swordtails or mixes. 

And don't take pet shop advice! =) If you have a question, or find a fish you're interested in and want to know if it can go in your tank...ask on here and ask about its needs. You'll get some proper help, I assure you. n.n


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## goldfish98

Okay then. Will a Betta get along with an otto? The otto is the only one who is still alive.


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## sandybottom

that depends upon the temperament of the betta.lots of hiding places will help,but no guarantees.very sorry for your loss,and the accompanying frustration.


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## goldfish98

sandybottom said:


> that depends upon the temperament of the betta.lots of hiding places will help,but no guarantees.


Not exactly what I wanted to hear. :|


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## Sylverclaws

goldfish98 said:


> Okay then. Will a Betta get along with an otto? The otto is the only one who is still alive.


Mmm, yeah they can get along with otos SOMETIMES, like another said it depends fully on the bettas temperament and it's highly likely they wont get on well. Some bettas can, others cannot get along with anything else....like some get along with snails, others will rip them out of their shells and kill them if they can, or constantly pester them...and sshrimp are pretty much lunch for bettas. 

The other problem is, otos need groups of five or more and to be kept in 20+ gallon tanks. Like cories, they're social, and are very sensitive fish. If they don't have proper space, food and a proper sized shoal, they can get stressed out and die. 

In a ten gallon, bottom-dwellers need to be kept to shrimp and snails, critters that can handle smaller tanks and don't need large groups. Even pygmy cories don't do well in tanks that small. It wont be able to handle the bioload from a betta and five otos either I don't think...bottom-feeders and carnivores like betta have a pretty high bioload.


Find a new home for the oto and get some Zebra Nerite or Tiger Nerite snails. They're pretty hardy against betta. You MIGHT be able to get a couple African Dwarf Frogs with a betta(no more than two or three, and they must be in groups of at least two)...but again, that can be iffy. I've always had frogs with my bettas with minimal issues unless there's a veiltail betta in the mix(the frogs may bite the tail, but they tend to leave the shorter finned bettas be, same with crowntails but crowntails can be extra aggressive). It's purely on the bettas temperament, and those are always iffy. =P


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## goldfish98

Sylverclaws said:


> Mmm, yeah they can get along with otos SOMETIMES, like another said it depends fully on the bettas temperament and it's highly likely they wont get on well. Some bettas can, others cannot get along with anything else....like some get along with snails, others will rip them out of their shells and kill them if they can, or constantly pester them...and sshrimp are pretty much lunch for bettas.
> 
> The other problem is, otos need groups of five or more and to be kept in 20+ gallon tanks. Like cories, they're social, and are very sensitive fish. If they don't have proper space, food and a proper sized shoal, they can get stressed out and die.
> 
> In a ten gallon, bottom-dwellers need to be kept to shrimp and snails, critters that can handle smaller tanks and don't need large groups. Even pygmy cories don't do well in tanks that small. It wont be able to handle the bioload from a betta and five otos either I don't think...bottom-feeders and carnivores like betta have a pretty high bioload.
> 
> 
> Find a new home for the oto and get some Zebra Nerite or Tiger Nerite snails. They're pretty hardy against betta. You MIGHT be able to get a couple African Dwarf Frogs with a betta(no more than two or three, and they must be in groups of at least two)...but again, that can be iffy. I've always had frogs with my bettas with minimal issues unless there's a veiltail betta in the mix(the frogs may bite the tail, but they tend to leave the shorter finned bettas be, same with crowntails but crowntails can be extra aggressive). It's purely on the bettas temperament, and those are always iffy. =P


I don't even want the otto anymore. Will my LFS take it back?


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## Sylverclaws

They may take it back, it depends on the rules at the shop. If you've had it less time than their return policy you can get a refund. You may even be able to sell him back or sell him to another shop if you can find one that buys.


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## cyclesnipas

Sorry to hear about your losses Goldfish98. Its discouraging for sure. But you mentioned they started acting like this right after you added new decor. Is it possible you could have introduced some kind of foreign toxin with the new decor or from your hands-soap, lotion etc? I always rinse anything going into my tank before adding it.


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## goldfish98

I rinsed my hands before doing it. I actually had my mom put the rock in as I have shaky hands and I was afraid of whacking the poor things. She forgot to rinse it. I told her to, but she forgot like 10 seconds after.


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## cyclesnipas

The betta is a great idea for your 10gal. Some stores keep bettas in community tanks instead of tiny bowls or cups, which imho is cruel. If you can find one thats been housed with other fish at the lfs then he should be fine with your otto. You said your thinking of removing the otto anyway so maybe the store would work out a trade or discount towards the betta. I prefer shrimp or snails as scavengers for betta tanks anyway.


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## Poleren

Yeah, it probably is high ammonia or lack of oxygen. I've had a fish die because of ammonia.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poleren

You should get 1 Betta and some minnows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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