# Tang has dark spots all over its body



## Mike

Hi,

In the past day or so our blond hair naso tang has developed dark spots all over its body. :-( It's also had light splotches where it should be uniform gray for a while now, but I assumed they were just the result of scratches it got swimming against the live rock. I wonder if that was not the case after all and the splotches were indicative of something gestating inside it?

















Does anyone have any idea what this is and what we can do to get rid of it?


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## kitten_penang

I found this



> Typically a "disease" that is most commonly associated with Tangs and Surgeonfishes, but one that can be contracted by other species as well, what is referred to as Black Spot Disease, Tang Disease or Black Ich is actually caused by an infestation of tiny Genus _Paravortex_ member turbellarian flatworms.
> Although parasitic organisms that are much less dangerous and life-threatening, as well as rather easy to get rid of compared to other ich diseases such as Oodinium, Cryptocaryon, and Brooklynella, nonetheless it is a problem that needs to be treated upon recognition to eradicate infected fishes of these parasites.
> 
> *The Life Cycle of These Worms*
> 
> 
> Living in the substrate until mature, an adult worm seeks out a host fish.
> After feeding for about six days, it falls off into the substrate.
> About five days later the worm's body ruptures and releases a new population of young worms, and the cycle starts again, but in larger numbers.
> *Symptoms to Look For*
> 
> Once these worms start feeding on a host fish they acquire pigmentation, which causes the appearance of black spots about the size of a grain of salt on the body and fin membranes. Worms that freely move about on fish, the spots do not always remain stationary. On light colored fish they are easy to see, whereas on dark colored ones they may go unnoticed at first. Fish will scratch up against objects in an attempt to dislodge the parasites, and if allowed to progress the fish become lethargic, loss of appetite and colors occur, rapid respiration develops, and secondary bacterial infections can invade damaged tissue sites.
> 
> *Treatment Recommendation*
> Give all infected fish a freshwater dip, followed by a formalin bath and continue treatment in a QT.
> 
> *Preventing Reinfestation*
> Reinfection will occur no matter how effectively the fish have been treated if these parasitic tubellarian worms are not eradicated from the main aquarium. Unfortunately because they can survive for several months without a host, this is often not an easy thing to do, but here are some suggestions.
> 
> 
> Leave the main aquarium devoid of all fish for several months.
> Young worms live in the substrate and feed on detritus and organic debris until such time they mature and go in search of a fish host. By siphoning up excess organic matter that can build up on the bottom of the aquarium can help to control their numbers.
> For fish-only tanks that have no freshwater sensitive invertebrates present, hyposalinity can be applied.
> _~ Debbie & Stan Hauter_


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## Mike

Thanks, kitten penang. It seems my aquarium is having a stroke of bad luck lately. :-( 

I gave the tang a freshwater dip last night. I suppose I should try to give all of the fish a freshwater dip this morning before work. I doubt I'll be able to catch the gold head sleeper goby, though. 

As far as treatment, I can't leave the main aquarium devoid of fish because it's our only aquarium. As far as I know, we've already been applying hyposalinity somewhat with a specific gravity of 1.018. Should the specific gravity be lowered further? If so, to what?

Is there anything else I can do to help get rid of this? Are there any reef safe medications that may help?


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## onefish2fish

i would not dip the other fish in the tank, only the tang who is showing signs of infection. i would also ride it out without medication. if you can get this guy eating more, and adding garlic and selcon to its food, it has a better chance.


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## Mike

I already dipped the rest of the fish in the tank, except for the gold head sleeper goby who I could not catch, this morning before work. I noticed something appearing to protrude through our passer angel's side, and the fish looked like it was trying to scratch itself on the live rock. 

As for riding this out without medication, I spent all morning reading corroborations of what kitten penang posted, that the worms will mature, fall off, and release over 100 larvae each that will attack the fish unless/until the tank is either treated or has no fish in it for 4 - 8 weeks so that the parasites have nothing to feed on. http://books.google.com/books?id=SAdDtT7YRRoC&lpg=PA93&ots=5zVKV37NXl&dq=Paravortex%20cure&pg=PA93#v=onepage&q&f=false

I found a product called Prazi Pro that is supposed to kill such parasites without harming live rock, crabs, etc. and was planning to pick some up after work to use on the tank tonight. You would not use it despite the appearance of the tang and the nature of _paravortex_?


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## onefish2fish

i did not know after they died larvae was produced, in that case treatment sounds needed. remember though for future issues its sometimes more stressful on a fish to use a chemical, then to let the fish fight off the disease on its own. sadly this fish hasnt been eating well enough for its immune system to be up to par, and im sure thats contributing a good deal to the issue. i would still feed garlic and selcon soaked foods to your fish, maybe even a live blackworm or roe treat.


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## Mike

Thanks, Jon. Coincidentally, the tang has been easting like a champion since I noticed the paravortex on him.

Anyhow, I went to the LFS yesterday and bought Prazi Pro. The directions said to administer it after as large a water change as possible, which was good because it coincided with the last of my 50% water changes to bring my nitrates down.

I turned off my skimmer as per the instructions and added 3 teaspoons to my 55 gallon tank. Hopefully I'll have good news to report within a few days...


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## aunt kymmie

Administrator said:


> Hopefully I'll have good news to report within a few days...


I hope you do too. Good luck with him, he's a beautiful fish.


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## Mike

Thanks, Kym. I'd hoped to wake up today and find him doing much better, but instead it looks like there are many more black spots and he's doing considerably worse. :-(

















I gave him another long freshwater dip this morning, but I don't expect much to come of it since his previous freshwater dip apparently had no effect. 

The PraziPro directions say "a single treatment lasting 5 - 7 days is normally sufficient. Retreat as necessary, but no more than once every three days" so it looks like I have to wait until Saturday to dose the tank again since I just dosed yesterday. I hope he makes it that long.


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## drvet2002

Prolonged immersion in praziquantel can have negative effects on fish. I would have to check some references but usually I treat with 3 hour baths every 5 days for a total of 3 dips. I think I dose at 36mg prazi per gallon...again I would have to check since I have the drug compounded. I agree with kitten penang and onefish2fish....it appears to be Tang Turbellarian Disease and only treat those individuals affected. Repeating freshwater dips this soon may cause too much stress which leads to worsening of the condition.


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## Mike

Thanks, drvet2002. 

So you treat your fish with praziquantel in hospital tanks or temporary dip tanks rather than dosing your display tank with it? Is it possible that PraziPro has different properties than the medication you use that allow it to be safely used directly in a display tank? All of the experiences with PraziPro that I've read about during my research have corroborated that PraziPro is safe to put directly into to a reef tank in the amounts prescribed (1 teaspoon of the liquid per 20 gallons) with no adverse effects to fish, inverts or coral, but only worm like creatures. 

Because of the nature of the life cycle of Tang Turbellarian Disease, it seems to me that it would only make sense that PraziPro go directly into the tank because to use it only for a dip would have no effect on the worms in the display tank's substrate, larvae in the display tank's water, etc. If it were used in this way, it would seem likely that a fish that spent time in water containing PraziPro would only contract the parasite again if returned to an infected tank.

As for repeating freshwater dips too soon leading to a worsening of the condition, it seemed a reasonable thing to do when I found the tang looking much worse this morning. If you guys think I should hold off on performing a freshwater dip again despite how bad he gets then I won't do it again and just hope the PraziPro begins to do its thing.

The PraziPro directions say you can retreat as necessary, but no more than once every three days. Elsewhere in the directions they instruct to do as large a water change as possible before beginning treatment. Do you think a similar water change is meant to be done before the tank is retreated?


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## Mike

This morning many of the dark spots, which I understand are caused by hemorrhaging on account of the larvae feeding, have little white spots on them, which I presume are the larvae themselves. When I found the same yesterday morning I performed a freshwater dip that appeared to get rid of the little white spots, although of course the dark spots did not go away. 



drvet2002 said:


> Repeating freshwater dips this soon may cause too much stress which leads to worsening of the condition.


Should I abstain from performing another freshwater dip even though it appeared to get rid of the small white spots yesterday?


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## kitten_penang

sorry to hear it's not doing well.i wish you the best of luck.


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## Mike

Thank you, kitten_penang.

I had planned to dose the tank with PraziPro again today as it's been three days, but since I turned on the aquarium light this morning the tang has spent most of its time hovering almost vertically with it's face facing the top of the tank, its gills moving as if it were breathing heavily. I figured it's best to hold off on adding additional medication for the time being and risking making the situation worse.

I also noticed a strange lump on him that was not there yesterday. It's circled in red in the picture below. There is a similar lump on his other side. Does anyone have any ideas on what this lump may be or what may have caused it?


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## aunt kymmie

I'm not saying this is what it is but my discus had that same type of lump (symmetrical on both sides of the body). He had stopped eating a day or two before the "lump" showed up. Turns out he was constipated. I know this isn't the case here but thought I'd mention it.


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## Mike

Thanks, Kym. My tang hasn't eaten in a day or two so I wonder if it's that? Did the constipation resolve itself or did you have to treat your fish for it?


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## Mike

Just an update, since yesterday evening my tang has been laying on its side at the bottom of the tank and getting up and swimming sporadically. I expected to wake up and find him dead this morning, but he was alive and has been doing the same thing all day today.

I noticed this strange looking creature floating in the water which I fished out with a net. Could this be an adult paravortex, or is this something else that may have been in the live rock that the PraziPro probably killed? It appears to have a number of legs, so it doesn't look like a worm which is the type of thing that PraziPro is supposed to kill.


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## Mike

The tang died during the night and I removed it from the aquarium this morning. :-( Thank you to those of you that provided me with advice about his condition, treatment, etc.

I'll be performing a 50% water change within the next few days, dosing the tank with PraziPro again to ensure the parasite has been eradicated, and will perform another 50% water change a week or so after that.


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## onefish2fish

the picture above, although hard to tell looks like a pod? amphipod/copepod shell even, which if thats what it is, theyre great to have and there is no worries. since the picture is hard to see, look up both pictures of amphipod and copepod and see if it fits.

IMO, which ofcourse is only my opinion mixed with a guess, i would say the tang looked hungry rather then constipated. in the front and back of the "bump" the stomach appears collapsed, and thin. 
50% water changes are kind of large in a saltwater tank. this is prob. the largest you can go but unless the temp and pH are on ( the salinity with a refractometer should be accurate ) these large changes can be shocking live stock. maybe remove your 50%, replace 25%, wait a half hour - hour or so and replace the rest of the 25% ? 
just a thought, anything that happens fast in this hobby.. well you know the end result.
i know exactly what its like, and im sorry about your loss. hopefully with the experience gained this can be fixed, or even better avoided in the future.


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## Mike

onefish2fish said:


> the picture above, although hard to tell looks like a pod? amphipod/copepod shell even, which if thats what it is, theyre great to have and there is no worries. since the picture is hard to see, look up both pictures of amphipod and copepod and see if it fits.


Yeah, you're probably right that it was a pod of some kind. When I found it I really hoped that it was something bad and the fact that it was dead meant that the PraziPro was working. Now I'm hoping that if it had been alive the PraziPro was not what killed it. 



onefish2fish said:


> IMO, which ofcourse is only my opinion mixed with a guess, i would say the tang looked hungry rather then constipated. in the front and back of the "bump" the stomach appears collapsed, and thin.


It looked like a bump to me, but that's entirely possible since it only ate nori for a few days out of the couple of weeks we had it.



onefish2fish said:


> 50% water changes are kind of large in a saltwater tank. this is prob. the largest you can go but unless the temp and pH are on ( the salinity with a refractometer should be accurate ) these large changes can be shocking live stock. maybe remove your 50%, replace 25%, wait a half hour - hour or so and replace the rest of the 25% ?


I usually add a little Seachem Marine Buffer to every other bucket of water I pour in the tank. I could certainly wait a half hour or so midway through the water change if that would make it less stressful for my fish, though. For what it's worth, they've never looked visibly stressed after a large water change.



onefish2fish said:


> just a thought, anything that happens fast in this hobby.. well you know the end result.


Oh yeah, I've learned this pretty well by now. It's been some lesson.



onefish2fish said:


> i know exactly what its like, and im sorry about your loss. hopefully with the experience gained this can be fixed, or even better avoided in the future.


Thanks Jon. Again, I appreciate the help that you and others provided even if in the end it was too late for my tang.


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## Pasfur

How long had you had that Naso Tang? The body looks emancipated. I wonder about the overall health at time of purchase.


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