# Fishless Cycling Questions..



## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

So, I am doing a fishless cycle with the information i got from this article: Fishless Cycling - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

So during the last part of the fishless cycling, where you add a teaspoon or so of ammonia a day while the nitrite is spiking; when the nitrite spikes, do you then discontinue putting the daily amount of ammonia in the tank? Or, do you keep putting the ammonia in, even after the nitrite level has spiked? 

I looked in the article and it doesn't specify that part. Also, I work at a pet store and a friend at work says it may never finish this last part because there is no good bacteria in the tank, is this true? She is not into the whole adding chemicals and stuff, she believes in natural cycling, I just don't know which is better. Is the bacteria in the air good enough, even if I have a lid where the particles in the air aren't going to get in the tank very well? Lol, I hope I am making sense.

Anyways, just curious. Should I do what my friend at work says to do... do a 40% water change and then put in some dechlorinated water and then acclimate 3 new fish there, some hardy fish like danios or something? Or, should I just wait it out. The nitrite has almost spiked, but seems to be stuck at this one level. 

Anyways, I would sure appreciate any help I can get or advice! Thanks!


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I would just stick with the fishless cycle. Sounds like your close to being finished. After my nitrite spike, my cycle was complete in about a week. I tested my ammonia daily. It was the first to hit zerro. I added enough ammonia to bump it back up to 3ppm everyday. Towards the end of the cycle ammonia will drop to zerro quickly. Everytime you add ammonia, you will see a spike in nitrites. You know it is cycled when you see both ammonia and nitrites drop to zerro 12hrs after adding ammonia. Good luck with your cycle! 
Also,
Having you filter running and you heater set in the mid.80s will quicken the cycle.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

So, let me see if I have this correct.. you keep testing every day for ammonia and nitrite levels, than your goal is to watch and make sure that they kind of balance out each other. 

I kind of understand, but am kind of confused. Lol, I don't know that much about cycling. 

So, I just checked my water levels. My nitrite is at about 1.5ppm- 2ppm and my ammonia is at zero. I put the ammonia in every day but the nitrite hasn't yet spiked all the way to 5ppm. 

So, right now I should keep adding ammonia and then when the nitrite spikes, than what should I do?


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

It may be this.. See, I never check the ammonia and nitrite levels right after I put the ammonia in or within an hour after. I always check the levels at night and then put in the ammonia right after and then I don't check the levels again until the next night. Could the nitrite have already spiked?


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

The way i did mine. 

I added ammonia until my ammonia and nitrites were 0. I added ammonia one day, then the next i did water change and i added fish that day. (my nitrates were down after the water change.)


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Keep adding ammonia every day. Try to bump the ammonia up to 3 or 4ppm everyday. I added the ammonia sometime later in the day, so when I got up in the morning 12 hrs had passed since I added the ammonia. Retest ammonia and nitrites. When you get a zerro for both two day in a row, your tank is cycled. Your nitrates will be sky high, so you will have to do a big water change to lower the nitrates, then it is ready for fish.
Its not really like you are trying to balance out. Even when you see the big nitrite spike, keep adding the ammonia every day. Shortly after the spike you will see that nitrite will start dropping quickly in a 12hr time period after the introduction of ammonia. When nitrites can drop to zerro in 12hrs, after bumping the ammonia up to 3ppm, your tank is good to go.


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

It is possible you missed the spike. Bump it up to 4ppm tonight and retest 12hrs later.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Thanks, it is starting to make sense. The only thing is I don't know exactly how much ammonia to add to bump it up to 4ppm. Should I check the ammonia level after an hour of putting a little bit in than keep adding until it reaches 4ppm?


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Yea, an hour should be enough time to get the ammonia circulated through the tank. Be carefull not to add to much. If you only bump it up to 3ppm, that will work too.


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## Guber (Jan 29, 2009)

I also have a hard time measuring how much to put in to keep or get the levels to 3-4ppm. I have another question, would it work out fine if you were able to keep it at a steady 1-2 ppm? Cause sometimes i'm not entirely sure what it's at even after a test because the color is somewhat in between 1 or 2 or 2 and 3


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Yea, I think that will work. I tried to add more, hoping the tank would be able to handle a larger load of fish. To determine how much ammonia to use, i used a 5gal bucket and kept adding drops from an eye dropper, counting drops, till I to the level I wanted. Then I knew how many drops I needed for 55gal. Your way will work as well, maybe just dont add a tank full of fish at one time. Start with two or three fish when the cycle is finished, then add a few more every week or two weeks.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Welcome! Here's a good link I used that explains the cylce in a very basic way...

Fishless Cycling Made Easy


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Thanks for that article. So, Twistermom, I just checked my water levels, within 12 hrs from the time I bumped the ammonia level up to 4ppm. Now, the ammonia is down to zero, and the nitrites seem to be decreasing. The only thing that is confusing is that I did check within an hour from when I put in the ammonia as well and the nitrites had not spiked? 

Is it cycling correctly, or what is going on with it? Thanks!


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I think it takes the nitrites some time to spike, after adding the ammonia. I would not even worry about testing nitrites until 12hrs after adding ammonia. There will be a nitrite spike, even if you do not see it or test for it. Sounds like you are real close to having a cycled tank! I am guessing that in the next few days you will see nitrites drop to zerro as well.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

okay, great! I'm excited! so do you have any good advice on a good starter fish?


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

What size is the tank?


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

It's a 16 gallon bow front aquarium. I wanted to either try some Mollies, or some Gouramis, but I just want some good advice. If it were your tank what would you like to get?


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

I think a 16gal could hold both. Maybe 1 dwarf gourami and a few mollies.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Hey, so, my nitrite level has not gone down yet? It seems to be stuck on maybe between 0.5 and 1ppm. It has been this way since the 18th. I am not sure if this is good because I think you said when it starts decreasing it decreases rapidly?


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Some cycles take longer than others. Hang in there! I still think you are close!


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## Guber (Jan 29, 2009)

I seem to be in a similar boat. Within 12 hours of bumping ammonia up to 2-3 it goes down to between zero and .25ppm. However for the past 3-4 days my nitrites are hanging at 5ppm. Been cycling for about a week and a half now.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

So, I just realized... this is really stupid, but I figured out what I was doing wrong lol. I don't use the test strips, I use the test bottles where you look at the coloring instead. So, I went to check my nitrites last night, and I had to go do something for about 15 min. and left the test bottle sitting; I came back and the nitrite level showed 0! 

So, in actuality I may have been testing it incorrectly. I wasn't waiting the recommended 5 min. because well, i am kind of impatient and I didn't think it mattered really lol. 

Anyways, so, which brings me to my next problem. This morning I put in some ammonia, but within 3 hours it had already been dissolved by the nitrites. So, I added more ammonia. Now, my ammonia is up to 2ppm and my nitrites are at .25ppm. I think I may have added too much ammonia. Is there something I should do? Did I ruin the cycle?


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

You did not ruin the cycle. My last fishless cycle, my tank was cycled for over a week before I was able to put fish in it. the fish I wanted where all mail order and it was to cold out for them to ship. Sometimes I would bump the ammonia up to 3ppm a coulple times a day. You can add ammonia to it as many times a day as you want, just keep it under 4ppm. If your nitrites are zero two days in a row, after waiting the 12 hrs, I would say you are ready for fish. Remember to do a large water change to lower those nitrates.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Yay, it's working! I am really excited! Thanks a lot. So, another weird thing, just off subject. My fish tank is not level. It's only slightly not level, but I think that's just weird. 

Thanks for all your help!!!!  Now you can help Guber eh'. Thanks.


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## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

sammies4787 said:


> Yay, it's working! I am really excited! Thanks a lot. So, another weird thing, just off subject. My fish tank is not level. It's only slightly not level, but I think that's just weird.
> 
> Thanks for all your help!!!!  Now you can help Guber eh'. Thanks.


 
you can always put a wood shim on the uneven side of the stand!!!


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

As Twistersmom said,, be sure and do large water change 50 to 60 percent before adding fish and be sure and use dechlorinator for the new water and from now on.;-)


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

I have fish!!!!

3 sunburst platies. I like them, they are really silly fish. They especially love it when the food comes. How can you be certain how much they should eat in a five minute period? Do you just guess, I'm afraid of over feeding or under feeding them. 

Lol, they are still exploring the tank, one cannot seem to figure out that the back side of the tank is not real.. I have a picture of underwater lake scenery in the back. 

Also, how do you tell between a male and a female sunburst platy?


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## Sj45 (Jan 5, 2009)

sammies4787 said:


> So, I am doing a fishless cycle with the information i got from this article: Fishless Cycling - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish
> 
> So during the last part of the fishless cycling, where you add a teaspoon or so of ammonia a day while the nitrite is spiking; when the nitrite spikes, do you then discontinue putting the daily amount of ammonia in the tank? Or, do you keep putting the ammonia in, even after the nitrite level has spiked?
> 
> ...


What size tank are you cycling? Continue to add the recommended amount of ammonia until ammonia and nitrite levels are 0 in 8-12 hours (after putting ammonia in) then your good to add fish. Best of luck.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Were it me, I would take a small amount of food and place it in the palm of my hand and then use my fingers to crush the food to make it smaller about dime size amount.I would then drop only a pinch into the tank from this dime size amount and watch to see that it's all eaten. If so, I would add another small pinch. Once it was eaten that would be the feeding for the day. If food is falling to the bottom and not being eaten,, You are offering too much too fast and uneaten food will cause water quality problems , You only have three small fish, they will be fine with once a day feeding as I described. As you SLOWLY add new fish,, you can increase the amount of food slowly as well. Try counting from 300 backwards, If you provide enough food for fish to feed for this length of time (5min) your tanks water quality will deteriorate rapidly which in turn will result in sick or dead fish. I would add one or two fish every ten days so that biological bacteria can adjust and I would feed as described. If you do so ,,you will have WAY fewer problems and all fish will be healthier and happier .;-)


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Congrats on the cycled tank with fish!!!
Always great to see all your waiting pay off!
1077 gave great advice on feeding.
Fish food manufactures are in the market to sell food, they recommend feeding your fish alot more that they need.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

so, my fish died.. over night. *tear what happened with them? They don't look sick. They're just dead?

So, I just checked my water levels and it turns out the nitrites are at about 1-1.5ppm and everything else is good and under control. The ammonia is at 0 and the nitrates are at 2 or 3ppm. I did do a 50% water change about 7-8 hours before I got the fish and then let them soak in their bag for about 1hr, regularly adding some of my tank water to the bag. Than, I net them out. True, it was kind of stressfull getting them out of the bag with a net. The bag was kind of small and it was hard to get them out. I guess the heater was supposed to be at 79. But, our house is kept really cold at night and it could have dropped very easily. They were found underneath the heater. I didn't leave the light on at night because I thought you were supposed to leave it on all day and then turn it off at night. Also, it very well could have been that I did feed them too much. I gave them a little pinch, but they ate that so quckly that I gave them another little pinch, than one more. 

So, yes, I pretty much suck at keeping fish. Can you guys help shed some light on it? Thnx!


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

What do your water tests indicate for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrAtes? Did you remember to do large 50 percent water change before you added fish? Did you treat the new water you added after large water change with dechlorinator?


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

[/quote]So, I just checked my water levels and it turns out the nitrites are at about 1-1.5ppm and everything else is good and under control. The ammonia is at 0 and the nitrates are at 2 or 3ppm. I did do a 50% water change about 7-8 hours before I got the fish and then let them soak in their bag for about 1hr, regularly adding some of my tank water to the bag. Than, I net them out. True, it was kind of stressfull getting them out of the bag with a net. The bag was kind of small and it was hard to get them out. I guess the heater was supposed to be at 79. But, our house is kept really cold at night and it could have dropped very easily. They were found underneath the heater. I didn't leave the light on at night because I thought you were supposed to leave it on all day and then turn it off at night. Also, it very well could have been that I did feed them too much. I gave them a little pinch, but they ate that so quckly that I gave them another little pinch, than one more. 

So, yes, I pretty much suck at keeping fish. Can you guys help shed some light on it? Thnx![/quote]

sorry I edited the last post. not sure if you got it in time.


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Everything you did sounds fine. You dechlorinated the water?
I am guessing maybe the sudden exposure to nitrites may have killed them. Your tank must not have completed its cycle, since there are still nitrites in the tank.
If there are no fish left in the tank, I would suggest goining back to adding pure ammonia. The bacteria should still be in the tank. Maybe adding ammonia for a few more days will finish the cycle up.
The day I added my fish, over 12hrs had passed since adding ammonia, so nitrites and ammonia where both zero.
Sorry to hear you lost your new fish! 
Dont give up!
I am sure you will make a great fish keeper!


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Well, it's confusing because, I made sure the cycle was done. I put in like 2 tsp of ammonia in the morning for two days and within 12 hours, actually less, both the nitrites and the ammonia were at zero. Actually, I think I did this for 3 days. So, I know for sure it was cycled. 

Ugh, I'm really confused lol. I think it may have just been the fish, see at the pet store they said the fish were going through a little stress because of their heater was not working at all. 

But, I dont know exactly what happened, because there were nitrites in the tank? lol, sorry if I sound mad or anything, just really disappointed. Thanks for helping me. 

I was thinking I should keep doing the ammonia like you say for a few more days and try fish from another pet store. What do you think?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm so sorry about your fish!


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

That is what I would do.
Did you put the water the fish came in inside your tank?


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Nope. I might have put a little on accident when I net them out but the majority of it was kept in the bag. 

Thanks dramaqueen,  .


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Hey, so, when do you think I should change my filter cartridge?


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Lots of good bacteria there. I would not replace it till its falling apart. You can wash it off in old tank water.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Wait, I thought you were supposed to change the cartridge at least once a month?


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Thats what the people that make and sell filter media say to do. When I first started keeping fish, I did change mine out every month. Then I started reading about people not using carbon and not changing their media out till it was falling apart.
It was working for them, so I started doing it. Allot less money spent on filter media, and with all the good bacteria growing on the media it makes since to use it as long as you can.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

That does make sense! Thanks!


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

So, Today is Monday, and I am going to wait until Thursday to buy more fish. The only thing is, I was wondering if I should do another 50% water change? Or, because I have already done that do I need to again?


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

Check your nitrate level. If it under 40ppm it should be safe to add more fish.
If its above 40, I would go with another water change.
Good luck with the new fish!

Also, make sure nitirite and ammonia are zero before adding fish.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

Okay, thanks! You have been a really big help. Thanks for all of your advice!  I will let you know how it goes.


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## sammies4787 (Jan 8, 2009)

So, I got three swordtails today. It was an adventure acclimating them to the tank. First of all, one of the swordtails is really aggressive to the other two. I think that two of them are the same type of swordtail and one is a different type of swordtail. The one that is different is being aggressive to the other two. Anyways, while they were in the bag, the one started to attack the other two so much that I was afraid they were going to die or something, so I tried to net out the aggressive one. That didn't work as it was just making them all more and more stressed out. So, I tried to wait longer to see what would happen. Well, because the one would not stop attacking the other two, I needed to let them out. So, I tried, but it didn't work, so I had to dump the whole bag in. I do trust the store I got them from. He's very thorough about cleaning his tanks and making sure they're water levels are kept where they should be. 

But, so, now the swordtail that is being aggressive wont let the other two eat anything! What do you think I should do now? 

 thanks


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## Twistersmom (Dec 9, 2008)

You may want to start a new thread on swordtails.
I do not want to try to give advise, since I have not kept swordtails myself.


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