# Overstocked?? Oppinions please!



## It'sJames (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm trying to come up with a final stocking plan for my 28 gallon tank. It's (still) on it's way to being moderatly-heavily planted. Dimmensions are 24" long, 19" high, 12" deep. Has a Penguin 200 (maybe adding a canister filter or something?)

If I don't figure out exactly what I want in it, I'm likely to come home from the lfs with something I'll have to re-home later on. When you've got a couple extra bucks, it's pretty tempting to walk in and get something you hadn't planned for. :lol: 

I'm good with water changes, but I don't want to risk anything. Currently, there are 4 platys, 2 ottos, a sparkling gourami, 3 cardinal tetras in the tank. Not all of these fish will stay in there for the long run. I'll either move some to another tank or take them to my lfs. 
Here's what I would like to do, but I'm thinking it may be a little too much. 

8 Cardinal tetras, 3 Coral platys, an Angel (I know this is a little controversial), and 2-3 ottos (unless I can move them into another tank). Hoping to also have some Amano shrimp to keep the algea down.

Is this overstocked?? If so, by how much? What could I change without throwing the whole plan out the window? I know that a lot of you think that the angel shouldn't be kept in this tank -- I am considering keeping 1-2 German Rams instead. Would this be alright?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Not sure how angel and gourami would do . Most molly's and platy's appreciate a little salt but tetras and otto's would not tolerate it. A small angel would not get too large too quickly but may be hounded by gourami or vice versa.otto's do better in groups but need substantial amount of algae to survive. You may wish to wait until plants are in or they could starve if not enough algae is present. have you considered a group of corys? I do not think your tank would be overstocked but platy's could multiply rather quickly. I have kept angel fish and dwarf gourami's together but they each claimed one end of the tank and chased each other away if one or the other violated the others space. hope some of this helps.


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## Dave66 (Mar 26, 2008)

It'sJames said:


> I'm trying to come up with a final stocking plan for my 28 gallon tank. It's (still) on it's way to being moderatly-heavily planted. Dimmensions are 24" long, 19" high, 12" deep. Has a Penguin 200 (maybe adding a canister filter or something?)
> 
> If I don't figure out exactly what I want in it, I'm likely to come home from the lfs with something I'll have to re-home later on. When you've got a couple extra bucks, it's pretty tempting to walk in and get something you hadn't planned for. :lol:
> 
> ...


James,
In your 28 you could have a dozen cardinals, a trio or quartet of platys and a sextet of Otocinclus, provided you can properly feed the latter. To prevent being up to your nose in livebearer fry, keep a single-sex group. I'd suggest getting all females, as all male groups tend to spar with each other. The females may drop fry for a while, as they can store sperm, but no where near as long as guppy females, so within a month or two, the fry production should stop.
The above stocking is what you can do in a properly maintained and well-established planted tank. The cardinals and Otocinclus have very small bioloads and are small fish, so you have plenty of space for those numbers. If you eliminate the platys, you could keep the Rams. They do quite well in planted tanks populated with schooling tetras.
You should shelve the penguin and go with a canister. Your plants will grow better without the roiling of the water surface by that HOB.
I am another that is against keeping an angelfish in your tank, as it WILL grow, and the Cardinal and Otocinclus groups' lives would be in imminent danger. The platys would be in danger, too, as lone angels can easily turn into real SOBs.

Dave


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

canister filters ARE very efficient and pricey as well. A hang on the back filter would work too if return water enters below the water level. This means tank water level should be just below lip of tank. I use an emperor 400 and an emperor 280 on 75 gal. Plants are swords, crypt, wisteria, java fern, and anubia. the emperors are also very easy to service.  PS recent addition of water sprite to above plants.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

I'd stock it this way.

10 cardinals
6 otos
3 sparkling gouramis
4 platies

Sparkling gouramis are very timid fish so do make sure you provide thickets of plants.


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## It'sJames (Nov 15, 2007)

Thanks for the quick replies! 



> Not sure how angel and gourami would do . Most molly's and platy's appreciate a little salt but tetras and otto's would not tolerate it. A small angel would not get too large too quickly but may be hounded by gourami or vice versa.otto's do better in groups but need substantial amount of algae to survive. You may wish to wait until plants are in or they could starve if not enough algae is present. have you considered a group of corys? I do not think your tank would be overstocked but platy's could multiply rather quickly. I have kept angel fish and dwarf gourami's together but they each claimed one end of the tank and chased each other away if one or the other violated the others space.


I was not planning on keeping the Sparkling (not dwarf) Gourami in the same tank with an angel. He'll be moved into another tank later on. I've had two ottos for quite awhile. I used to have a larger group, but now I've only got the two. The ones I have now are doing great. The tank is not new - it's got plenty of algea growth for them. I do have some plants in the tank now - a sword and some wysteria. I've tried to keep cories, but every time I introduce them to my tank they end up dying within a couple weeks/months. I think my substrate is also a bit rough for them.



> The above stocking is what you can do in a properly maintained and well-established planted tank. The cardinals and Otocinclus have very small bioloads and are small fish, so you have plenty of space for those numbers. If you eliminate the platys, you could keep the Rams. They do quite well in planted tanks populated with schooling tetras.


So I couldn't keep cardinals (eight), ottos(3), platys(3), and rams (1-2)? I was really hoping that would work.... 

Let's say that, hypothetically, there wasn't any danger of the cards or ottos being eaten by the angel... Taking only bioload into consideration, would an angel, some ottos, 8 or so cards and 3 coral platys be too much for a 28 gallon? I had been thinking I might just trade the angel out as it grew for a smaller angel, to keep any of my cards from dissapearing. So if it's just that the angel might snack on my tetras, I might still consider getting a small angel and eventually trading him out. If it's bioload that's the main concern, then I definatly don't want to risk it. 

Lupin, do sparkling gouramis do best in groups? I bought the only two they had left at my lfs the other day, but one never made it out of the bag. Should I get a couple more, or at least one more? Either way, he will end up in another tank - planted of course.

Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to end up with the wrong fish. I really appreciate all the help!


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I think an angel's propensity for eating your cardinals (and maybe otos, though I kind of doubt they'd bug an Oto) would go up over time (i.e. as it grows) just as its bioload would increase from simply increasing in size and having a bigger appetite. 

I think if you were good about overfiltering and doing regular water changes, you could probably do around 6 cardinals, the two otos, a pair of rams and a trio of platies. I think your only problem would be that without the angel, it might be more difficult for you to get rid of platy fry. I assume the rams would help keep the population under control, but I don't believe they're as potent fry eaters as angels are. If you go this route, you might consider only getting female platies (unless you want the fry for other purposes or have another tank you could move them to).

I plan on doing a similar tank sometime, although it will hopefully be at least a 40g, but it will house my krib pair, some smaller schoolers, some kuhli loaches, a trio of swordtails and a spotted leaf fish or two to take care of the swordtail fry.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Oh no...I forgot something in my list. Thanks for pointing that out, iamntbatman. Yep, platies are far too prolific. I should have realized none in the list can control them quite well but I should have added it is better to keep all males instead of having females then you won't need an angel for that.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

It'sJames said:


> Lupin, do sparkling gouramis do best in groups? I bought the only two they had left at my lfs the other day, but one never made it out of the bag. Should I get a couple more, or at least one more? Either way, he will end up in another tank - planted of course.


They're fine solitary or groups. I suggested a trio because I will expect one may or may not show up at all so another is bound to. These are really shy fish.


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## It'sJames (Nov 15, 2007)

I knew that they were shy when I bought him, but I've been suprised that he hasn't been as shy as I had expected. He likes to hide in the wysteria, but he comes out pretty often to say hello. I've got a lot of tannins leaking in from some new driftwood, and a couple pieces of wood floating in the tank, so he seems pretty comfortable in there. He's been pretty interested in the other fish - seems to think he's a platy sometimes. :lol:


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## loachking (May 21, 2008)

i usually like angel in a little biger tank like a 55 gal or bigger. but thats your call. however i would be a little lury about putting the gourami and angel together in that small or tank. so if you do i would keep an eye on them. but there are ways to drive the aggresion down by helping them set territory boundaries by adding caves and retreats for them. But I understand that hard with that small of tank. But the other fish you mentioned souldn't overstock the tank. also keep an eye on the angel with the cardnals.


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## It'sJames (Nov 15, 2007)

> however i would be a little lury about putting the gourami and angel together in that small or tank.





> I was not planning on keeping the Sparkling (not dwarf) Gourami in the same tank with an angel.


This is my stocking plan. All the fish that are in there right now will be moved to another tank.
8 Cardinal tetras, 3 Coral platys, an Angel (I know this is a little controversial), and 2-3 ottos (unless I can move them into another tank). Hoping to also have some Amano shrimp to keep the algea down.


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## mr.bojangles (Mar 11, 2007)

i would consider a 28 to small for and angel. i always go with minimum 55 gal tank


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