# VerdantGrotto's Fresh-Water Habitat



## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*My plan for the new 55 gallon is this...*

1. Place the rinsed substrate and gravel in the tank and fill halfway with distilled water.

2. Introduce the appropriate additives (Water Conditioner and Bacteria) that will be provided with the 
Marineland or TopFin starter kit

3. Place a piece of driftwood with Anubias barteri attached to it. (Has been in my smaller tank for 6 months)

4. Acquire a few plants from what seems to be a Reputable Fish store near me and plant them in the tank.

5. Place all driftwood, rocks, caves and any other well cleaned decorations in the tank.

6. Fill the rest of the way with the remaining treated water.

(I also considered using the filter from my established tank with a used cartridge from my established tank on the new tank for the better part of a day. Is this a waste of time?) 

(Steps 1 - 6 was planned on taking place over a weekend)


7. When the plants were purchased from the Fish Store. 2 Medium Scalare Angels are also to be ordered. Preferably Female, because the Angel I currently have I suspect is a Male.

8. Once the Angels arrive the tank should be cycled and all three will be introduced to their new habitat.

9. The following morning the Cory Cats will be introduced

10. The following morning the Ottos will be introduced

11. and finally ... a month or two later I planned on purchasing a group (6) of Diamond Tetras


any comments or suggestions are welcome 

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/characins/diamond-tetra-school-121756/page2/#ixzz2Fe5EdysS


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

First Question :

 I will have around six or more Cory Cats and was wondering if the Sand at say Petsmart is okay for them? I believe the brand name of the sand is Argonite or Flourite or something like that. Not the live sand for Saltwater tanks obviously. I was pondering using black sand so the Diamond Tetras and the Corys Colors stand out a little better.

Second Question :

This is more of a what's your opinion type question...
Black Sand ? White Sand ? Tan Sand ? Play Sand ? Pool Sand ? Coarse Sand ? Fine Sand ?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> First Question :
> 
> I will have around six or more Cory Cats and was wondering if the Sand at say Petsmart is okay for them? I believe the brand name of the sand is Argonite or Flourite or something like that. Not the live sand for Saltwater tanks obviously. I was pondering using black sand so the Diamond Tetras and the Corys Colors stand out a little better.
> 
> ...


There are some issues here.

First, aragonite is a calcareous sand, meaning it contains calcium and magnesium, which will raise the GH and pH of the tank water. That works in marine setups (which is what this type of sand is intended for), or for rift lake cichlids or livebearers, but with soft water fish you do not want this. A substrate of aragonite sand (or gravel) will send the GH and pH soaring.

Second, Flourite is an enriched substrate (supposedly) intended for planted aquaria. It is debatable whether this substrate benefits plants or not; I have had it in one tank for over 15 months and feel I wasted my money, given the plant growth in this tank compared to my plain sand substrate tanks. But more to the issue, it is not a good substrate for corys and loaches. I had to remove the corys from my Flourite tank, they had developed mouth and barbel issues that completely cleared within a couple of weeks after being moved into the sand tank. And I have had catfish breeders tell me never to use Flourite or Eco-Complete with corys, so I now take that advice.

Black is also hit and miss. I found the corys are more colourful over a mixed sand. I went with play sand two years ago and gradually changed over five tanks. In appearance, this is near identical to the sand in many Amazon streams over which corys feel right at home. It is interesting that mine began spawning for the first time after 15 years when I changed to play sand; I can't say this is directly related, but it is interesting, when everything else has been the same throughout.

To your second question. White is not a good substrate; none of our fish naturally live over a white substrate, and in fact it can stress them because it is not natural. Black can be used to good effect, but having black in the Flourite tank I will say that it shows detritus much more than my mixed gravel and sand tanks, over which it is invisible.

Pool filter sand works for some, but as another member cautioned yesterday it can be rather sharp, which is not what you want with substrate fish like corys.

Which brings me back to the play sand mentioned above; the least expensive, and most natural...and my plants are doing well in it. There you are.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks for the Feedback. This definitely helps.

So I had another question about driftwood.

Does all the driftwood end up dark after it's been soaked/rinsed and set into the tank after awhile?

The driftwood I have is really dark and I was wanting to put something lighter into the tank. Like a branch or something. Is there a thread that could shed a little light on this? I can't seem to find one...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Thanks for the Feedback. This definitely helps.
> 
> So I had another question about driftwood.
> 
> ...


All wood is of a colour unique to the species. While being fully submersed permanently may alter the shade some, it is not going to change significantly, at least not with the woods I have had over 20+ years.

I personally prefer the dark wood; I now use Malaysian Driftwood which is dark brown to black. Previously I have used ironwood which is black. The lighter woods, such as Mopani, grapewood and manzanita, are sort of blond or in the case of mopani a dual tone. I personally don't like these, but that is just me; drawbacks for me are that they do float (the others are heavy and sink immediately) until fully waterlogged, they seem to have more tannins, and these seem to be more problematic with toxic fungus, esp the grapewood. I also find aesthetically that darker woods tend to suit forest stream habitats better. Part of the visual "dark" that these fish prefer. Anything "light" is going to draw attention to itself.

Byron.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

This is just my choice, but personally I would add the fish a bit slower than you have planned. You have a group of angelfish, a group of cories and a group of ottos all going into a new setup within 3 days. I realize you plan to plant the tank and everyone always says you can add fish without worrying about a cycle but you have some sensitive fish there and I just tend to err on the side of caution and stock more slowly. Just my personal opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jeaninel said:


> This is just my choice, but personally I would add the fish a bit slower than you have planned. You have a group of angelfish, a group of cories and a group of ottos all going into a new setup within 3 days. I realize you plan to plant the tank and everyone always says you can add fish without worrying about a cycle but you have some sensitive fish there and I just tend to err on the side of caution and stock more slowly. Just my personal opinion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Thanks jeaninel, I got stuck on the other issues and missed the "plan.":roll:

Now that I've seen it, I would hold off on the otos until 2-3 months later when you may have some algae. This is explained in the profile. And I would up the Diamond Tetra group to 8-9.

How many corys? Also better in larger groups, say minimum 5-6 if one species (more is better), or you can mix species.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Mixing the Corys is what I had planned. Also, the diamond tetra school was minimized because I am pondering including a Bolivian Ram. Of course none of this is set in stone and I will be listening to criticism and suggestions heavily. Here is some ofthe explanation as to what fish I planned on putting in the tank and why :

*Corydoras* 

I currently have 3 Bronze Corydoras Cats in my existing tank
I planned on introducing 3 Panda Corydoras Cats (Or something similar) in the next 6 months
This would be a total of 6 Cory Cats

*Scalare Angel* 

I currently have 1 Marble Colored Angel (Not sure of the Coloring Name)
I believe Titsu (Teet-sew) as we call him is a male (Not entirely sure but will upload pictures this coming week). This being said, I was planning on introducing 2 Female Angels that are about the same size as him (As long as one could order a female from the the LFS)

*Otocinclus Macrospilus*

I currently have 3 Otos and planned on getting 1 more.
In regards to the above suggestion on waiting to introduce them to the new 55G I could leave them in the 10 gallon until the tank has matured. 

*Diamond Tetra*

These little guys will be purchased some time in the next 3 - 6 months (Pending my willpower to wait)
I planned on only introducing 6 (4 males and 2 females) because i really want to also get a...

*Bolivian Ram*

1 Lone Bolivian Ram
After all of the other fish are acclimated to the tank and several months after that occurs, I was planning on placing a nice rock cave somewhere in the Tank away from where the Angels and the Corys have established there Residence and introduce the Bolivian Ram.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I came to this Roster by reading quite a few profiles and making sure their temperament , Water requirements and size was compatible with each other. I also got the count by looking at their Adult size and adding the numbers up until it hit 55. I don't want to overpopulate the tank but i would like to have a nice variety of attractive compatible fish. (Which is why there are only 3 Angels)


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The so-called guides to fish stocking are not precise and subject to considerable variation. They usually help inexperienced beginning aquarists avoid overstocking, and for that they are useful. But when it comes down to the actual fish, there is so much that factors in that it is frankly impossible to have any absolute rules. It is a learning curve for all of us. So with that in mind, I'll offer some comments on numbers.

Tetra are shoaling fish, and the more in the group the better they will be, in health, temperament and behaviours. One has to give "minimum" numbers as a guide, but here we are again back to the impossibility of having absolutes, so the guide is the minimum that should not normally be lessened. But increasing the group as I said is always better for the fish--and the aquarist. As space is available, 7-9 Diamonds is what you should aim for.

As for restricting any fish group in order to have more different fish, no. This is working against the better interests of the fish. If you want Diamond Tetra, get a decent number so the fish will be at their best; otherwise, I wouldn't get them.

Now, having said that, you can still have a single Bolivian Ram. This one fish is not going to make any impact in such an aquarium. And this again is where specifics must override "guides." You have the space.

Corys. More, please. You have the space, have 12-15. They can be mixed species, and I would try to get 5 of a species. The three you now have are fine, but get five panda, then 5-6 of something else.

Angels. Remember to add all three to the 55g together, unless you can be absolutely certain of adding only females.

Otos. If your three are eating prepared foods now (as otos usually will learn to do when they are settled) fine. I was previously assuming new fish, and otos in stores usually are near-starved, and in new tanks with no algae frequently die quickly. I wouldn't add more myself, but go ahead if you want them. But I would add 2 more if you do.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Should I introduce each type of fish to the new tank once per week? 
Starting with the Angels? 

Or should I introduce everything I have currently excluding the Angels until I get the New Angels home?

What would you do in my situation? I want to do this right and not put to much stress on the fish and the aquarium.

By the way, I bought two 50lbs bags of Playsand from H.Depot a few minutes ago(Is this Enough?). I just have to go pick it up now. The only problem is I'm at work right now. 16 hrs shifts all the way up to Christmas eve...:|


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Should I introduce each type of fish to the new tank once per week?
> Starting with the Angels?
> 
> Or should I introduce everything I have currently excluding the Angels until I get the New Angels home?
> ...


That's plenty of sand. You'll have some left over, this is always handy. I frequently add a cup or two of sand in the back corners, as sand shifts over time (so does gravel for that matter). About 2-3 inches overall (spread evenly) is what you want, then push it higher in the back.

I would put the angels in last, and all together. This way they are going into a new environment where other fish are present, and this is more likely to prevent excessive territoriality which could happen if they are alone.

Once the plants are in, add the fish. Add complete groups of a species at the same time. A few days between additions is being cautious, but if you're comfortable doing that, fine. It partly depends upon the planting, and any introduced bacteria on wood from an established tank.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Got The 55Gallon! 

Uploading Pics...

Dang,
Damaged Corner:evil:

The LFS (P-smart) was very courteous and I had no issues returning it. They actually let me take the top out of the one at there store and replace it with my busted one.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Crisis Averted... Got the new top and built the stand...


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Cleaned the Play-Sand very well. The Garden Hose and a bucket trick worked very well... There was a little bit of loss but since the 50LBS!!! bags are only $3.50 each who cares?! I still have a bag and a half... By the way, my wife was very skeptical when she saw me putting sand in the tank. It looked like I was just playing in the Mud.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Planting the tank now... Pretty easy to set these things... and nock them loose 

I've got 3 grass like plants (Mondo Grass?)

I also planted Red Ludwigia (Originally 3 bundles) but when I planted them i removed the metal strip they use to weigh it down and they ended up coming apart... Now I have 4 RL Plants

Plus the Anubias on Small Driftwood

Getting Closer...


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

When filling the tank with water, the plate trick works wonders


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Making Progress...


Seems very cloudy.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

24 hrs after initial setup...

Tested the PH on the new tank and I've got a little bit of an issue. 

The Current Tank is around 7.0ish and the new tank is 8.4...

All of the additives that one could put in there say :

*DO NOT USE IN AN AQUARIUM CONTAING LIVE PLANTS*

I do have two small pieces of driftwood in the tank now, and two more on their way.


Any Ideas on how to safely lower the PH?:-?


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Well , It was a little frustrating but i have to admit... The tank looks great! ...


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Now all I have to do is figure out how to lower the PH without killing the plants...

Any Suggestions?


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## AK Fresh Water (Jun 23, 2012)

Don't worry. Cloudiness is very normal for the first few days. No matter how much you wash the sand it always seems to cloud the tank.

I know that API has a product called "pH down" that is safe for plants. It comes in small bottles though and can be pricy. 

Phosphate based buffers shouldn't damage plants either, though they are infamous for causing algae blooms. (I'm not an expert on these though)

A more natural alternative is sphagnum peat moss. This will lower your pH, though this method is less exact and can be a bit unpredictable in an unestablished tank. 
I've also heard that lots of driftwood will lower the pH of your tank over time too.

Given the option, I will almost always pick a natural 'remedy' over a chemical one. I feel the less chemicals/unnatural substances you add to your tank the better. I have no personal experience with peat moss though.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

AK Fresh Water said:


> Don't worry. Cloudiness is very normal for the first few days. No matter how much you wash the sand it always seems to cloud the tank.
> 
> I know that API has a product called "pH down" that is safe for plants. It comes in small bottles though and can be pricy.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions,
I found the PH down online and one could purchase it from Petco/Petsmart for about 13 bucks.
I also found the sphagnum peat moss online at home depot for around 5 bucks... I imagine one could put this stuff in a nylon stocking and tie it up really good and then place it in the cavity in the filter unit. This seems to me like it would work well. I will have driftwood in the tank in about a week or two and already have two smaller pieces in it now. In hindsight, I probably should have used all distilled water to fill the tank instead of Tapwater....


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## Freshcatch (Aug 8, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Planting the tank now... Pretty easy to set these things... and nock them loose
> 
> I've got 3 grass like plants (Mondo Grass?)


About the Mondo Grass.. This is not a true aquatic plant, and it will die when submerged in an aquarium. It will take it 2 to 3 months for it to die, and during that time, you will think that it's fine. Some of the box stores sell this, but they don't tell you that you can't submerge it. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

The others are great plants for your aquarium, and it looks like you are off to a great start.

Also welcome to the Forum!


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Also, ph, from my very rudimentary understanding, usually lowers over time. I've also found that having lots of 'organics' in the tank will lower ph, like driftwood and oak leaves.
Again, my understanding of ph, gh, and kh is very rudimentary, so I defer to the experts on this. 

Anyways, the tank is looking great so far! How is your experience with the playsand? I'm loving your fish selection.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Also from my understanding the 'ph down' product only works for a limited time. Have you tested the water again to see if the ph has lowered or changed at all?


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Freshcatch said:


> About the Mondo Grass.. This is not a true aquatic plant, and it will die when submerged in an aquarium. It will take it 2 to 3 months for it to die, and during that time, you will think that it's fine. Some of the box stores sell this, but they don't tell you that you can't submerge it. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
> 
> The others are great plants for your aquarium, and it looks like you are off to a great start.
> 
> Also welcome to the Forum!


I was afraid the Mondo Grass was something of that nature. I will be replacing it with (Valisaneria Speralis?) Or maybe Corkscrew in about a month or two.

Thanks for the compliment on the tank, It's not quite fully established yet because I didn't want to rush into it...


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I tested the PH after doing a 20% water change and waiting an hour... No Change , still at 8.4

I will be getting the" PH down" and trying the Peat Moss technique to bring it down for now. I assume the wood that will be in it in approximately a week or two will be sufficient to keep it stable. There will be a large piece of Mopani in the Center of the Tank. I've heard that this type of wood could cause some issues but the look is great and I wanted to give it a try. Unfortunately , I don't want to introduce any fish into the tank until I get all the perameters stabilized. Also, In an effort to keep the PH down I use Reverse Osmosis and/or distilled water for water changes. This worked pretty well in my "Trainer" 10 gallon tank. It also seems to be bland Nuetral water with minimal additives. I still add the water conditioner and Bacteria though.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Playsand*

The Playsand worked great! It was about $3.50 per 50 lbs bag from HomeDepot ( Someone should tell Petsmart and other LFS so they will lower their prices on Substrate :lol: ). It wasn't too difficult to use either. 

1. Use a clean bucket that hasn't seen any soap or detergents. (NO MOP BUCKETS)

( I used a 5 gallon minnow bucket)

2. Put about 1/3rd of the bag into the bucket

3. Tilt bucket to about a 45 degree angle

4. With a garden hose , point water stream at the top-side of the inside of the bucket towards the back.

5. Water will stir up the sand and pick up most of the Silt and flow over the edge.

6. Water will be cloudy and there will be some waste.

7. When water starts to run clear stick the end of the hose into the body of sand and stir briefly.

8. Place hose flow back into top inside rear position and wait until water flows clear.

9. Use second hand to "Scrape" sand foam off of the top of the water.

10. Drain bucket by leveling it on ground on it's side.

11. Scrape out of bucket gently into empty aquarium to desired level and fill aquarium with water (use a plate so you don't disturb the sand).

The water will be a little muddy and cloudy at first but let it settle and it will look great. One should also wait until sand settles before turning on filter. (Could damage Filter)

The sand also makes planting aquatic plants very easy...

Even with the waste from cleaning the sand I still ended up with a bag and a half leftover from the 3 that I bought... $11 bucks for substrate!!!

Very inexpensive, not too difficult to use and looks great.


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## Sookielee (Dec 18, 2012)

Glad to know it was that easy to use. I am planning on going with the play sand also and was worried it might be a messy, involved process to get it clean enough. This doesn't sound do bad.

I applaud you for taking your time, seems a much better approach and everyone including you and your fish will be happier because of it.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> I tested the PH after doing a 20% water change and waiting an hour... No Change , still at 8.4
> 
> I will be getting the" PH down" and trying the Peat Moss technique to bring it down for now. I assume the wood that will be in it in approximately a week or two will be sufficient to keep it stable. There will be a large piece of Mopani in the Center of the Tank. I've heard that this type of wood could cause some issues but the look is great and I wanted to give it a try. Unfortunately , I don't want to introduce any fish into the tank until I get all the perameters stabilized. Also, In an effort to keep the PH down I use Reverse Osmosis and/or distilled water for water changes. This worked pretty well in my "Trainer" 10 gallon tank. It also seems to be bland Nuetral water with minimal additives. I still add the water conditioner and Bacteria though.


Be very careful with pH Down or any similar chemical. These frequently do not work due to the buffering of the KH. What happens is that the pH Down lowers the pH, then the KH raises it back to where it is in the source water. Then you add more pH Down, but the KH raises it back up again. This will continue to occur until the point at which the buffering capacity of the KH is reached, and then the pH can suddenly drop, what some refer to as a crash, because there is no longer any buffering to affect all the chemical solution.

The latter crash will almost certainly kill the fish. But leading up to that, the continual fluctuations up and down are highly stressful and these weaken the fish.

It is best to use these solutions in tanks without live fish. If after say a week the pH is remaining stable, it should be safe.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Byron said:


> Be very careful with pH Down or any similar chemical. These frequently do not work due to the buffering of the KH. What happens is that the pH Down lowers the pH, then the KH raises it back to where it is in the source water. Then you add more pH Down, but the KH raises it back up again. This will continue to occur until the point at which the buffering capacity of the KH is reached, and then the pH can suddenly drop, what some refer to as a crash, because there is no longer any buffering to affect all the chemical solution.
> 
> The latter crash will almost certainly kill the fish. But leading up to that, the continual fluctuations up and down are highly stressful and these weaken the fish.
> 
> It is best to use these solutions in tanks without live fish. If after say a week the pH is remaining stable, it should be safe.


Thanks Byron , I was thinking about that and I agree with the statement about waiting a week after the PH is "stable" . 

Will 2 small, 1 medium and 1 Large pieces of Driftwood help to maintain a lower PH? 

What are your thoughts on using Peat Moss to lower the PH?


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Thanks Byron , I was thinking about that and I agree with the statement about waiting a week after the PH is "stable" .
> 
> Will 2 small, 1 medium and 1 Large pieces of Driftwood help to maintain a lower PH?
> 
> What are your thoughts on using Peat Moss to lower the PH?


I certainly hope you're not confusing stable with constant. It is entirely possible to that a constant value that is unstable and a varying values that are stable. Because stable is defined as the reaction of a system to stress that result in values that deviate from some steady state. If the system tends to return to the steady state it is positively stable, remain at the new state it is neutrally stable, and further deviate from the steady state it is negatively stable (or unstable).

PH is one parameter where that is particularly true. A constant pH could be ready to go south at any minute. But a system with a daily pH drop can self correct to maintain that same drop.

I do agree with running a new planted tank for week to let things settle and condition the tank, and get the plants established and rooted. I then add (10g) a single fish and not add food for a week. Then add some more fish and start very light feedings--- like 1 flake per day.

I use peat moss in my FW tanks which have no mechanical circulation nor filtration. PH rises to 8.4-8.8 (api high range test kit) over a few weeks. What the peat does do is prevent the kh and gh rises and neon tetras seem to do much better. 

So I recommend you do nothing to lower pH. After all low carbon dioxide can hardly be unhealthy for the fish.

Just some thoughts worth at most.

.02


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> I certainly hope you're not confusing stable with constant. It is entirely possible to that a constant value that is unstable and a varying values that are stable. Because stable is defined as the reaction of a system to stress that result in values that deviate from some steady state. If the system tends to return to the steady state it is positively stable, remain at the new state it is neutrally stable, and further deviate from the steady state it is negatively stable (or unstable).
> 
> PH is one parameter where that is particularly true. A constant pH could be ready to go south at any minute. But a system with a daily pH drop can self correct to maintain that same drop.
> 
> ...


Some of what you said is kinda confusing but I think I got the Jist of it. 
Although, I don't want my PH to be 8.4 to 8.8 which is what you said the Peat Moss would do. I thought it was supposed to lower it? The PH level in my currrent tank(10 Gallon) is around 7.0 if I am going to be able to put those fish into the new 55 gallon (which is at 8.4) shouldn't the PH be relatively close to one another ? Otherwise it could kill them right? 

Also you said something about not feeding them for a week? That seems excessive doesn't it? Why would one want to wait that long before feeding the fish in the newly established tank?


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Some of what you said is kinda confusing but I think I got the Jist of it.


perhaps that is very common to those who read beaslbob posts. :lol:


> Although, I don't want my PH to be 8.4 to 8.8 which is what you said the Peat Moss would do. I thought it was supposed to lower it?


The peat moss actually does lower the pH. My point was (or should have been) that even with peat moss in the substrait the pH rose to high levels in my planted tanks.


> The PH level in my currrent tank(10 Gallon) is around 7.0 if I am going to be able to put those fish into the new 55 gallon (which is at 8.4) shouldn't the PH be relatively close to one another ? Otherwise it could kill them right?


 basically yes. Conditions should match as much as possible. And of course acclimation is important as well


> Also you said something about not feeding them for a week? That seems excessive doesn't it? Why would one want to wait that long before feeding the fish in the newly established tank?


Because when I fed (even 1 flake per day) that first fish slowed down on the 4th day, was motionless on the bottom and breathing heavy the 5th day and died on the 6th. Just like clockwork. So one time I just didn't "waste" the food that first week and that first fish lived. As have all first fish since. And I don't consider it starvation as the fish is eating bugs and stuff that come in on the plants. And are active and pooping nicely etc etc etc.

FWIW when I go on vacation I just go. And return two weeks later to a nice tank with fish glad to see me. 

Fish in the wild can go for weeks with not food.


my .02


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks Belzabub :twisted:


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Thanks Belzabub :twisted:


busted at last! :lol:


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Thanks Byron , I was thinking about that and I agree with the statement about waiting a week after the PH is "stable" .
> 
> Will 2 small, 1 medium and 1 Large pieces of Driftwood help to maintain a lower PH?


Probably, but the extent depends upon the initial GH and KH of the source water. See below too.



> What are your thoughts on using Peat Moss to lower the PH?


If the intended pH lowering is significant, the best way is with pure water. Using any organic plant material such as wood, leaves, peat will work, depending how much is used, the initial values, and the tank's biological chemisty.

As you're at 7.0 now, I would just let the pH lower naturally; it should do so once the tank is established, provided the KH of the source water is not sufficient to prevent this.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Well when I tested the PH levels of both tanks last night they both registered at 7.8 ( I used the API Master Test Kit )

This is confusing me because I could have sworn that my PH level in the current 10 Gallon was at 7.0 ( Used Tetra Quick Test Strips )

I did a water change in the 10 Gallon Tuesday evening with Tap Water ( The same water source I used to fill the 55 Gallon )

If both of these levels are close to each other would it be ok to introduce the diamond Tetras tomorrow ? 

Should I wait longer ? ( Tank was set up Sunday with Plants and the Clarity has improved Tremendously )

I've done two 20% water changes since Sunday and added the API Water Condition and Bacteria.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

7.8 seems kinda high for an Angel ( It will be a month or two before they are introduced to the new 55 )


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Well when I tested the PH levels of both tanks last night they both registered at 7.8 ( I used the API Master Test Kit )
> 
> This is confusing me because I could have sworn that my PH level in the current 10 Gallon was at 7.0 ( Used Tetra Quick Test Strips )
> 
> ...


 Api high range pH Kit? if not then the pH is actually much higher.


Again in planted tanks where the pH is high just because of the plants that is nothing to worry about.

Angels like water low in carbon dioxide just like other fish.

my .02


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Well when I tested the PH levels of both tanks last night they both registered at 7.8 ( I used the API Master Test Kit )
> 
> This is confusing me because I could have sworn that my PH level in the current 10 Gallon was at 7.0 ( Used Tetra Quick Test Strips )
> 
> ...


It is usually better to let things do what they do when it comes to water chemistry rather than attempting to "fix it. Many factos are at work, and messing with one can cause real trouble. And chances are it will shift back anayway.

To get to the bottom of these pH numbers. What test kit, exactly? What is the pH of the tap water--remember to shake a sample briskly for several minutes to out-gas the CO2 before testing tap water? And what is the tank water pH?

Just so we see all numbers together.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> Api high range pH Kit? if not then the pH is actually much higher.
> 
> 
> Again in planted tanks where the pH is high just because of the plants that is nothing to worry about.
> ...


Yeah, I used the High Range Kit. The PH was 8.4 at the beginning of the week. No fish are in it as of right now. I will test the water when I get home from work (Probably around 6pm CT


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Water Test Data*

New 55 Gallon Water Results

*PH* = 8.0 ( up 0.2 points from last night , down 0.4 points from monday )

I used a dose of the PH down from API. Probably won't be using anymore of the stuff.
Not because of any quality issues, but due to advice received from the Forum.

*AMMONIA* = 0.25 ppm

*NITRITE* = 0.25 ppm to 0.50 ppm ( Color of sample could have been debated as to which it was closest )

*NITRATE* = 0 ppm


Established 10 Gallon 

*PH* = 7.8 ( Tested last night at 7.8 as well )

*AMMONIA* = 0 to 0.25 ppm ( Leaning towards 0 )

*NITRITE* = 0 ppm

*NITRATE* = 5 to 10 ppm


Tap-Water Source

*PH* = 7.8

(Other tests not performed)


Water-Change Source

Could not obtain data due to lack of sample (It's purchased from the local grocery store which is closed at the moment)

This water source is Reverse-Osmosis and/or Distilled water. I recently purchased 5 gallon water jugs with handles. This works great and seems to be good water to use. (Will Cost $5 every water change)


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

Is there any particular reason you use that water as opposed to just good old dechlorinated tap water?

Do you Only you that water? As doesn't RO/DO water have a lot of minerals etc missing out of it that the FW fish require? 

Sorrylots of questions. There hopefully relevant.


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

Looks like you have two planted tanks both with high pH.

IMHO there is a very highly technical term for that dasterly situation.

it's called:























normal :lol:


For pH what I do is measure the pH just before lights out. Especially in my marine tanks. The idea is that if that pH is high, the plants are consuming the carbon dioxide in the tank.

I double dog dare you to run for a couple of weeks with no water changes, just top off with untreated tap water. :shock:

But that's still just my.

.02


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> New 55 Gallon Water Results
> 
> *PH* = 8.0 ( up 0.2 points from last night , down 0.4 points from monday )
> 
> ...


I see nothing unusual in the pH numbers here.

Be careful with buying water, some of it is worse than tap water for minerals and TDS. As Nilet asked, is there a reason for this water being used?


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

The last Fish Forum I was involved in (Before I deleted my account due to Rude Members and Moderators) someone had stated that water produced Via Reverse Osmosis was a cleaner more pure way to do changes. There theory was that it was softer, had less minerals and chemicals such as Flourides , Chlorines , Chloramines , etc... It just seemed to me that if you used a quality water source instead of relying on a municipal water source it might prevent some sort of Catastrophic occurence and you could also maintain a steady set of water condition numbers. 

I realize it might be a little overkill or OCD on my part but it works and it gives me an excuse to go to the Grocery Store (Which is right next to the Fish Store)


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

IME with "my" planted system any potable water is fine.

I also do no water changes so the initial quality of the water is not important.

my .02


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> Looks like you have two planted tanks both with high pH.
> 
> IMHO there is a very highly technical term for that dasterly situation.
> 
> ...


LOL :lol:

I understand that this is normal due to the conditions and setup of the tank (Sand, plants, etc...)

The only thing that has me concerned is the fact that there are Cory Cats and Angels destined for this tank. Shouldn't they have a PH setup in the low 7 ' s ? If not the high 6 ' s ?


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> IME with "my" planted system any potable water is fine.
> 
> I also do no water changes so the initial quality of the water is not important.
> 
> my .02


No Water Changes? :shock: That's Crazy Talk :lol:


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> LOL :lol:
> 
> I understand that this is normal due to the conditions and setup of the tank (Sand, plants, etc...)
> 
> The only thing that has me concerned is the fact that there are Cory Cats and Angels destined for this tank. Shouldn't they have a PH setup in the low 7 ' s ? If not the high 6 ' s ?


I've kept angels.

And silver hatchetfish were reported as needing 6-7 ph vaules. But they lived for 3 years in my 8.4-8.8 tank.

To me it is the reason the pH is high. If only because the plants have consumed the carbon dioxide that would hardly be a bad thing for any fish. Not to mention returning oxygen.

I guess there are other reasons for pH. Perhaps that is what they are talking about.

my .02


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

What many fish tolerate and what is best for them is not the same thing.

If you are maintaining soft water fish, which angelfish and others mentioned certainly are, and you are OK with buying the water, fine. What is the GH and KH/Alkalinity of the tap water? It may be good to mix this with RO, in some amount, as you do need some hard mineral for the plants if not the fish, and the GH will suggest possible levels.


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> No Water Changes? :shock: That's Crazy Talk :lol:


 
I'm just a wild and crazy guy:lol::lol::lol:


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Byron said:


> What many fish tolerate and what is best for them is not the same thing.
> 
> If you are maintaining soft water fish, which angelfish and others mentioned certainly are, and you are OK with buying the water, fine. What is the GH and KH/Alkalinity of the tap water? It may be good to mix this with RO, in some amount, as you do need some hard mineral for the plants if not the fish, and the GH will suggest possible levels.


The Tap-Water is as follows : 

GH = 30 to 60 ppm (mg/L)

KH = 240 ppm (mg/L) Max Range of Test Strip ***I think my water softener is out of salt!***

PH = 7.8

On another note, the RO water at Jewel has added minerals and the water at Dominicks does not. Is the minerals they add something that fish need?

After reading all the parameters what do you think I should do...

Use only Reverse Osmosis Water purchased from the store?

Use Treated Tap-water?

Or listen to Belzabub and don't do any water changes, don't treat the water and feed the fish used deck screws...:lol::lol::lol::twisted::lol::lol::lol:


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> The Tap-Water is as follows :
> 
> GH = 30 to 60 ppm (mg/L)
> 
> ...


Everyone here knows my take on regular water changes, so I am not going to be drawn into that discussion.

To your water. The tap water GH is between 1.5 and 3 dGH, which is going to be too low for live plants to propser long term, as it means there is insufficient calcium. But before I go into that, what is this water softener thing? Are you running your tap water through a water softerner?

As for bottled water, it must be pure. True RO water will not have any minerals in it. Normal bottled drinking water is not safe in fish tanks as it frequently contains a number of substances.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Yes, The Water Supply to my House is ran through a GE Water Softener. I do add _Tetra FloraPride_ to the Tank when I do Water Changes. 

The "Guaranteed Analysis" on the back reads :

Soluble Potash (K2O)...3.00%
Iron (FE).................0.19%
0.19% water soluble Iron (FE)

I'm Starting to think it might be wise to do a Tap-Water Change one week and then a RO water change the next.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Yes, The Water Supply to my House is ran through a GE Water Softener. I do add _Tetra FloraPride_ to the Tank when I do Water Changes.
> 
> The "Guaranteed Analysis" on the back reads :
> 
> ...


Be careful. Water softeners that remove "hard" mineral salts by adding other salts such as sodium are actually worse for fish. I cited a warning on this from Dr. Neale Monks in my article on Total Solids [in the Freshwater Articles section] if you want to have a look at why. Is there any way to bypass the softener and use pre-softener tap water, and if so, any idea of the GH of the water pre-softener? This could perhaps be mixed with the RO and provide ideal water, or it may be fine alone.

The Tetra FloraPride contains as it says, only two nutrients. The other 15 are missing. Of course, some of these will occur in the water via water changes, some in fish foods, and some in organic breakdown in the substrate. We can discuss further but first I'd like to clear up the water issue as that is part of this.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

The Water Softener was out of salt and therefore not reducing the hardness as well as it should have. I would assume that the Hardness wasn't/isn't much higher than it is now. Although, I did just refill the water softener so the tap-water Idea might be a No-Go. I've looked and short of having a plumber tap into the water supply and run a new pipe with a faucet it isn't possible. (Which the wife would probably divorce me if i tried to redo the plumbing on the house for the fish)

Are there additives or fertilizer that I could administer when I do water changes with RO water that would alleviate the issue of Minerals/Elements not being present?

Also, I was just at the Petstore and they have a fertilizer additive similar to the Tetra Flora stuff that has : 

Total Nitrogen (N) 0.15%, 0.15% other water soluble Nitrogen
Boron (B) 0.0005%
Copper (Cu) 0.0005%, 0.0005% chelated copper
Iron (Fe) 0.26%, 0.26% chelated iron
Manganese (Mn) 0.05%, 0.05% chelated manganese
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0007%
Zinc (Zn) 0.003%, 0.003% chelated zin

Perhaps this is something that would replenish the nutrients not available in RO water?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> The Water Softener was out of salt and therefore not reducing the hardness as well as it should have. I would assume that the Hardness wasn't/isn't much higher than it is now. Although, I did just refill the water softener so the tap-water Idea might be a No-Go. I've looked and short of having a plumber tap into the water supply and run a new pipe with a faucet it isn't possible. (Which the wife would probably divorce me if i tried to redo the plumbing on the house for the fish)
> 
> Are there additives or fertilizer that I could administer when I do water changes with RO water that would alleviate the issue of Minerals/Elements not being present?
> 
> ...


We're mixing things up a bit, so perhaps I can realign them.:lol:

Back to the tap water, sometimes the outdoor taps are pre-softener, hence my question. If not, fine. RO water would certainly be preferable to softener water, from what I understand from those who know. So if you are OK using RO water--and remember, this is not the same as bottled drinking water--then I will now turn to what can be done.

First question is, the fish. If you have soft water fish, little GH is necessary, in fact it is mainly the plants in this situation. But if you intended hard water fish, it is different again. But from post #1 we are talking soft water fish--angelfish, corys, diamond tetra, otos--so I'll stick with this. Pure RO water is fine for these, but your plants won't last long. I have near-zero GH and zero KH in my tap water, and I use Seachem's Equilibrium to increase the GH with calcium, magnesium, potassium solely for the plants. I raise the GH to around 5 or 6 dGH.

To the other plant nutrients...what is the name of that product you saw? Aside from nitrogen which is a macro-nutrient, the others listed are micro-nutrients, what we term trace elements. There are still some nutrients missing, but the "hard" minerals need to be added with Equilibrium [no commercial liquid fertilizer contains sufficient hard minerals to supply these in RO water] so this would likely work together. I'd like to know the name though, as there may be something better for less.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Found it at Petco


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

most softeners for home use are the cation exchange type and as the name suggests they work by removing divalent cations from the water (the hardness ions Ca++ and Mg++) and replacing them with Na+, so this affects general hardness not alkalinity which is anionic

the water from the softener is only soft in that it is lacking Ca and Mg, but it is higher in TDS than what is natural for soft water fish, which come from water low in all dissolved solids


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Quantum has explained the issue with softeners, thanks for that clarification.

The Nutrafin Plant-Gro should work, but if you can get Seachem's _Flourish Comprehensive Supplement_ or Brightwell Aquatics' _FlorinMulti_, I would. You will use far less of these two, so long-term they work out less expensive. Plus, they do contain everything in balance.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I will be getting the Seachem product in the near future...
On another note, I think I might have stirred up the sand a little too much when I planted the tank the other day. It's been 2 days and it's still cloudy... Ugh, I'm probably just being impatient but I did go buy some cheap panty hose and cut the feet off of them. I then inserted the filter cartridge into the feet and put it back into the filter. Rinsed it off last night and there was a little sand scum on it. Hopefully this will help clear the water faster. (I've got company coming over tonight )


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## Sookielee (Dec 18, 2012)

Even cloudy it looks really great.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Well I'm a little anxious to populate this tank...

That being said... 

The tank now has 5 paleatus corydoras as well as 5 Bronze cory's in it now...

I introduced them last night and wow you should have seen them saying hello to one another. They were all over the tank, in schools of 3 to 6 and even a large school of all 10 swimming from one end to the other ! I swear it looked like a group of kids at Recess :-D

I will try to get some Pics of this to share !


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Just built a Cave system on the right


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

It's looking really great! I love the driftwood. Is it flat on the substrate or are there gaps underneath? It's a bit hard to tell in the picture.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Aren't Corys cute when they greet each other and all go off together!! Nice looking tank!!!


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

jentralala said:


> It's looking really great! I love the driftwood. Is it flat on the substrate or are there gaps underneath? It's a bit hard to tell in the picture.


 
There are gaps underneath, there is even one that goes all the way through to the back 

I got the driftwood from Dr. Fosters on the internet. There is also another website that sells Manzanite (Or however that's spelled) that has some really nice pieces. It was difficult to decide which piece to purchase.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Clearing Up little by little... The PH is also pretty high (8.8) :shock:

Just did a 40% water change ... Hopefully nothing detrimental happens...

I knew I should have waited longer to put any fish in it ...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The cloudiness will not have any detrimental impact on fish. It is most likely either the substrate settling or a bacterial bloom. In a new tank I have had the latter last for a couple months, in other tanks it clears in a couple days.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

:-D Well, It appears that I have Mating CoryCats ! I counted 97 spread out over 5 clusters. 1 cluster seems to have been either knocked off or consumed, but there are still 4 clusters with approximately 95 to 100 Eggs! :-D


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Fantastic.:welldone:


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

*a review*

Let me see if I got this right. :-?

You set the tank up with $3 of play sand and some plants.

The cloudiness cleared up.

PH is high (over 8).

And the new fish are spawing.


so is that basically correct? 

Wow what an experienced, successful, advanced, aquariumist you have become!!!!!!!!!! :shock:


ps tank looks great and congrats. :lol:


From the .02 guy.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> Let me see if I got this right. :-?
> 
> You set the tank up with $3 of play sand and some plants.
> 
> ...


LMAO

Thanks bud :lol:

But seriously, Thanks to you and Byron for all the great advice you've given me.
It has helped tremendously.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Well... It is as I expected. The fish eggs were all consumed :|

On another note, I acquired a couple of Angels so I could introduce all of them to the Habitat all at once... It didn't go well. The angel that I raised from a _wee little one_ (about the size of a dime) didn't like the other two. I'm thinking that the two I found were both males due to the behaviors they were expressing. Because of this, I have spoken to a local upscale fish store and the manager has assured me that the ones he is ordering for me will be Female (99% certainty). He has a breeder that he is getting them from which will ensure they will be female. So hopefully the second attempt will be more successfull.


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> LMAO
> 
> Thanks bud :lol:
> 
> ...


 
and you feedback to us is helpful and very rewarding.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

The Tank is nice and established now and seems to be doing well. All the levels are at the appropriate numbers. Although, the filters in the Biowheel 350 are becoming dilapidated. I purchased a 12 inch X 15 feet X .75" pond filter pad (10 micron I believe) from Amazon and will be trying that out to see how well it performs. If this works it will save me quite a bit of revenue because the filter cartridges for this equipment are rather expensive.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Fuzzy Growth on Driftwood*

I was once warned about using Mopani, Manzanite and another type of wood (can't seem to remember right now) because they could develop a fungus...

I believe this might be occuring right now. I have a nice piece of Mopani that has been in my 55G for a little less than a month. I was reluctant to place it in the tank but couldn't help it because the appearance really brought the tankscape together. I have been watching for this and fearing it would strike at any moment... and guess what.

I would post a pic right now but the Mrs. is getting our little one off to bed at the moment. I hope this isn't something that is going to wipe out my fish tonight. I plan on doing a water change tomorrow morning. That being said, I will take the driftwood out of the tank (making sure that no hitch-hikers tag along) and scrubbing the affected areas. I also planned on boiling the wood in case it is some sort of bacterial growth. It actually looks like the fuzz one would see on an Old loaf of bread except that it isn't as white (more like a very light tan white)

Any Comments?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> I was once warned about using Mopani, Manzanite and another type of wood (can't seem to remember right now) because they could develop a fungus...
> 
> I believe this might be occuring right now. I have a nice piece of Mopani that has been in my 55G for a little less than a month. I was reluctant to place it in the tank but couldn't help it because the appearance really brought the tankscape together. I have been watching for this and fearing it would strike at any moment... and guess what.
> 
> ...


There are many types of fungus; some are toxic, some are not. It is impossible to say if this fungus is or isn't dangerous without a microbiologist examining it under a microscope. All you can do, if you leave the wood in the water, is observe very carefully.

If the water begins to get cloudy, get rid of the wood. If fish begin to respire faster, become lethargic, or remain closer to the surface or gasp, get rid of it. And do a major water change, 3/4 of the tank.

I had toxic fungus from a branch of what I believe was Manzanita wood, though it might have been grapewood. I almost lost my fish. And I know of others who did. Corys seem to show symptoms first, not surprising when one realizes how sensitive they are to water conditions and any substances.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

The wood was removed from the tank this morning and scrubbed with a brush under running water. The affected areas cleaned up nicely. The wood was then boiled and left to cool. I'm reluctant to return it to the tank because of the phrase "toxic fungus" but I am also reluctant to *not* return it because it was expensive and looks amazing in the tank. 

This afternoon one of the Corys seemed to be respirating rather quickly and was laying on the substrate by himself in the middle of an open area. About an hour or two after the wood was removed and at feeding time the corys grouped back together and seemed to be fine. I did a partial water change (20%) which cleared the tank up nicely. Prior to this the tank did seem a little hazy but it was a little darker than I would have expected (Not white cloudy but more of a dark greenish tinge).

If I was to replace the Mopani driftwood with a different type of wood, what type of woods are safe for the tank? I remember you stating that woods like Mopani, Manzanita and Grape are prone to developing these fungi. Are there any type of limbs that branch out that would be safe to use?


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*fuzz*

The following image is taken from : Cichlid-forum.com 

At this point I'm planning on returning the cleaned driftwood to the tank and observing it carefully and continously. If the fuzz returns again I will clean it again and try one more time. If the problems persist, then I will have to count it as a loss and remove the Mopani indefinitely. (At which point I will have some cheap Mopani driftwood for sale :lol


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

I think I read that JDM had a white fuzz on his driftwood and that Nerite (?) snails munched it right up.


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

Malaysian driftwood is your best bet for wood. It is usually not prone to fungus but this isn't a give me. All wood can have it or carry it. Malaysian is just less prone then others. You can find nice pieces of it too if you look around. 

Oh That attachment you posted is not true. All fungus isn't safe. There are some that are deadly to fish. I had some that killed all but one fish before I caught it. There are others here that have had the same experience too. 

Green water does not have that effect on fish unless its really bad as then it takes the oxygen out of the water. So my guess is it would have been the fungus on your wood that caused the Cory to be breathing fast. When you took it out and did a water change it help to clear the water back up. If you put the wood back in I would watch for the fungus to cone back and your fish to see if one or all start breathing fast again. If it was me I wouldn't after that last reaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nilet699 (Dec 1, 2012)

Boredomb said:


> Oh That attachment you posted is not true. All fungus isn't safe.[/size]


Yeah dont trust that at all.......especially with the breathing problems you've already seen. try it again if you want....like you said it was expensive.......but if i was you....i'd do it on a day off.....a day that you can spend checking your tank every 30mins so you dont lose any.
Worst comes to worst, you yank it out and have a garden ornament or something. lol

I have a piece opf wood which is Very prone to getting a white fuzz on it,on and off. i've seen the gouramis munch it a few times, and its never caused any issues _that i know of_ with my fish. My aq is also only 2months old though and so im HOPING this will eventually disappear, but know it might never do so.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

The clip I took off of that website was probably more of me grasping at straws. Like I said, I'm a little reluctant to just get rid of it because of the cost. Although, If you total up the cost of the fish, plants and time and effort I've already put into the tank it's a no-brainer as to if I should return it. On that note, I will be looking for a new center-piece


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> The wood was removed from the tank this morning and scrubbed with a brush under running water. The affected areas cleaned up nicely. The wood was then boiled and left to cool. I'm reluctant to return it to the tank because of the phrase "toxic fungus" but I am also reluctant to *not* return it because it was expensive and looks amazing in the tank.
> 
> This afternoon one of the Corys seemed to be respirating rather quickly and was laying on the substrate by himself in the middle of an open area. About an hour or two after the wood was removed and at feeding time the corys grouped back together and seemed to be fine. I did a partial water change (20%) which cleared the tank up nicely. Prior to this the tank did seem a little hazy but it was a little darker than I would have expected (Not white cloudy but more of a dark greenish tinge).
> 
> If I was to replace the Mopani driftwood with a different type of wood, what type of woods are safe for the tank? I remember you stating that woods like Mopani, Manzanita and Grape are prone to developing these fungi. Are there any type of limbs that branch out that would be safe to use?


The symptoms strongly suggest toxic fungus. I had the same, and I know of another aquarist who lost his corys because he didn't realize it was the fungus. If you value your fish's health over the cost of the wood, don't use it. I paid over $30 for the branch I had that did this; it is now dry and sitting on a shelf in my living room as a reminder of my close call.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Byron said:


> The symptoms strongly suggest toxic fungus. I had the same, and I know of another aquarist who lost his corys because he didn't realize it was the fungus. If you value your fish's health over the cost of the wood, don't use it. I paid over $30 for the branch I had that did this; it is now dry and sitting on a shelf in my living room as a reminder of my close call.


I'm pretty sure I'm on my way to loosing one of my pepper Corys :-(. His eyes are bulging slightly and he hasn't moved very much in the last few hours.Also, my Bronze Corys have become rather pale in comparison to a few weeks ago. I imagine this is related to stress from the toxic fungus because all of the water perameters are fine (Nitrates @ 5.0ppm questionable). I did a 50% water change today and a 20% water change yesterday. The wood was also removed yesterday morning and will NOT be returning to the tank. My wife is actually going to repurpose the wood by using it to plant "Air Plants". (Google "Images of Air Plants on Driftwood")


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> I'm pretty sure I'm on my way to loosing one of my pepper Corys :-(. His eyes are bulging slightly and he hasn't moved very much in the last few hours.Also, my Bronze Corys have become rather pale in comparison to a few weeks ago. I imagine this is related to stress from the toxic fungus because all of the water perameters are fine (Nitrates @ 5.0ppm questionable). I did a 50% water change today and a 20% water change yesterday. The wood was also removed yesterday morning and will NOT be returning to the tank. My wife is actually going to repurpose the wood by using it to plant "Air Plants". (Google "Images of Air Plants on Driftwood")


Major water changes can sometimes work if the fish are not too far gone. Worth a try. By major, I mean 75% of the tank each day for 2 or 3 days.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Filter Rebuild to Save Money*

This works with MarineLand's Biowheel 350 Filter. It will probably work with other filters as well. As long as the filter pad holds up I expect to get about 3 to 6 months out of each rebuild.

*Step 1 *- Remove used filter from unit and rinse thoroughly. It doesn't have to be perfectly clean because all your going to need is the plastic structure.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Filter rebuild to Save Money*

*Step 2* - Tear all of the fabric off of the plastic housing. If some is left around the rim this is fine. Once this is accomplished rinse all of the old Carbon off of the housing.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Filter Rebuild to Save Money*

*Step 3* - Using a razor blade or a knife place the plastic housing on a firm surface and scrape all of the remaining filter fabric and glue off of the plastic housing. _(Be careful not to cut yourself)_


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Filter Rebuild to Save Money*

*Step 4* - Using a Pond Filter Pad _( I purchased 12" x 15' from Amazon for 20$ ) _cut a square that is slightly larger than the plastic filter housing. I left about a 1/4" to a 1/2 an inch on each side which was actually straight down the middle of the 12" wide filter pad.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Filter Rebuild to Save Money*

*Step 5* - Obtain some fishing line and a small drill bit. The Lbs test of the line shouldn't matter but I wouldn't use anything less than 8 lbs test because it could snap while your working with it. 
Take the drill bit and drill holes along the flat outer perimeter of the plastic housing. I spaced the holes approximately 1/4" to 1/2" apart from each other. (1/4" along the bottom and 1/2" along the top)


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

How's the Cory doing?

I missed the last few days posts and saw your fiasco with the mopani wood fungus. I did have something that appeared similar and I dropped 4 tiger snails onto the wood. They cleaned it up and there is no sign of it. Of course that doesn't mean it was the same thing at all, sometimes it's harmless, sometimes it's not. 

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Filter Rebuild to Save Money*

*Step 6* - Using the fishing line and a medium sized sewing needle, attach the filter pad to the plastic housing with the "tacky side" out. I accomplished this by tying a large knot to bottom out one end of the line in the housing (It won't allow the line to fully pass through the drilled holes). It is also beneficial to start at one of the top corners and transcend down and around to the other top corner. I also left a few inches open on the top side so I could introduce filter media to the cartridge. The sewing portion of this task is simple. With the needle halfway down the fish line, take the two ends and tie them together (This is where you make the large knot to keep the line from passing through the hole). Then simply stick the needle through the next drilled hole ensuring that it also passes through a decent amount of filter pad. Before pulling the string tight, pass the needle through the loop created from one hole to the next. Repeat this process until the end and simply tie the fishing line securely to the plastic cartridge housing. _(One could also google how to sew if the above steps don't make sense)_


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Filter Rebuild to Save Money*

*Step 7 - *Rinse thoroughly and introduce any filter media desired. One could seal the opening up if preferred to prevent any spilling during cleaning the filter. I left mine open... I hope to get quite a few miles out of each rebuild. But if not, the entire length (15' of pad) cost 20$. This is a huge savings considering cartridges are about 20$ for a 6 pack at the LFS


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

JDM said:


> How's the Cory doing?
> 
> I missed the last few days posts and saw your fiasco with the mopani wood fungus. I did have something that appeared similar and I dropped 4 tiger snails onto the wood. They cleaned it up and there is no sign of it. Of course that doesn't mean it was the same thing at all, sometimes it's harmless, sometimes it's not.
> 
> Jeff.


Unfortunately the Cory didn't make it. It was the only casualty that occured. I did however remove the Mopani driftwood and scrub it thoroughly. I even boiled it for about two hours thinking i might return it to the tank. I ultimately thought better of the idea and got an artificial piece that will serve nicely for a cave. The driftwood is going to be repurposed by my wife with something called air plants...

To put it shortly, Less one Pepper Cory, Plus one Decoration...

I did 50% water changes for two days and nervously watched the tank like a hawk. Pretty sure I lost a few years off my life...

There are a few new pictures in my Aquariums Log if you'd like to take a look


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

That's too bad.

Boiling won't fix a fungus problem, it is tough and in the wood in such a way as to be almost impossible to remove. I had read that before trying mine. I boiled and boiled, once for 6 hours straight and I still ended up with a, thankfully, benign fungus that was relatively easy to deal with.

I also put in a piece of Malaysian drift wood and it never had anything show up. Darker and not quite as "picturesque" but wood none the less. It's supposed to be far less prone to issues.

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I had heard that Malaysian wood is less prone to maladies like softer woods. I was actually warned by Byron about Mopani , Manzanita and Grapewood having fungus issues... You would think I would have listened...


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*??? Plant Matters ...*

Two things...

First, does anyone know what type of plant is to the left of the Ruffled Amazon Sword? And I'm not referring to the Red Ludwigia. (See Pic Below)

Secondly, I've looked into lighting (barely} and I've realized that my LED light is far inferior than what I need for live plants. On that note I am making a move back to Flourescent (Mainly because I don't have 200$ - 300$ for a LED light bar). I hope to purchase this Aqueon Light Bar and would like a few second opinions. (See Pic Below) I could get this light system for about 130$ (Need Glass Covers also)


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

First, no idea on the plant ID. 

Second, what are the tank dimensions? I know 55 gallon.

Third, what exactly is the LED fixture you have now?

Jeff.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

If the plant ID is the green stem plant [which is the only plant I can see left of the sword BTW, not sure where the red ludwigia is?] we will need a closer photo showing the leaf structure and stem. Might be an Hygrophila.

Agree with Jeff on the present light, what is it?

As for the T5 pictured, if this has HO tubes it will be much too bright. A single T5 with an HO tube would work, or a dual tube T8, whichever with 48 inch tubes.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

I like those fixtures, they are not HO, I have the dual 24" over a 25 gal and a single 30" over a 29 gal, they came with 'plant' bulbs (along with a 6700K in the dual fixture), I replaced them with a 6700K for the 29 gal and a 10000K I already had to go along with the 6700K for the 25 gal


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Approximate Tank Dimensions : 48" L x 12.5" D x20.5" *

Jeff, The LED light I have is what came with the 55Gallon Marineland Kit. It is the lowest LED in terms of strength. On the Marineland Website on the FAQ's they actually state that it isn't capable of sustaining plant matter. I actually posted a pic of said statement on one of your threads. Didn't you state that you have a double bright LED system? 

Byron, The "Red Ludwigia" or what was sold as Red Ludwigia is the plant to the left of the one in question. There are three plants in the picture. (Far Right - Ruffled Amazon Sword... Middle - ???... Far Left - Red Ludwigia) I'm suspecting the Redness of the RL has diminished due to the lack of sufficient light. I've tried to get a better shot of the middle plant with leaves on it but my Angel is a Paparazzi Nut and swims in front of the camera every time. (He also eats all the leaves on said plant)

Quantam, I'm not sure what the Wavelength charts mean on the back of the bulbs for that equipment. Perhaps you could shed some...light... on the matter?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> *Approximate Tank Dimensions : 48" L x 12.5" D x20.5" *
> 
> Jeff, The LED light I have is what came with the 55Gallon Marineland Kit. It is the lowest LED in terms of strength. On the Marineland Website on the FAQ's they actually state that it isn't capable of sustaining plant matter. I actually posted a pic of said statement on one of your threads. Didn't you state that you have a double bright LED system?
> 
> Quantam, I'm not sure what the Wavelength charts mean on the back of the bulbs for that equipment. Perhaps you could shed some...light... on the matter?


This is one of the reasons that I didn't get a kit to start out i just figured that i t wasnt the best equipment. The standard hood light will not work for plants... I did not know that at the time. 

I guess I lost track of your previous mention of this. Yes, double bright.

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

JDM said:


> This is one of the reasons that I didn't get a kit to start out i just figured that i t wasnt the best equipment. The standard hood light will not work for plants... I did not know that at the time.
> 
> I guess I lost track of your previous mention of this. Yes, double bright.
> 
> Jeff.


From what I've read, the double bright will work for low-light plants. I imagine you could probably extend the light period a few hours. I'm no expert but I wouldn't have it on for more than 12-14 hrs. According to MarineLand, their Reef ready LED system will work for planted tanks but it's also the most expensive... imagine that:roll:

Personally, I am going back to flourescent until the LED technology becomes more affordable and comparable to current standards.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm currently running 14 hours but it has nothing to do with the plants, it's just our schedule around here. I think the reef is the wrong light spectrum. 

Jeff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

> I'm not sure what the Wavelength charts mean on the back of the bulbs for that equipment


 
It shows the spectral output of the bulbs. The idea with the 'plant grow' tubes is that they emit relatively more blue and red light as those are the wavelengths that are absorbed by chlorophyll a for photosynthesis. I haven't seen much evidence in the form of scientific studies that supports the theory that these type bulbs lead to better plant growth, even if they did, the trade off would be the unnatural light they emit. I didn't notice it much until I started using bulbs that emit a more natural light (I like the 6700K from coralife/aqueon). Bulbs in the 6500K range will have a better balance of red, blue and also green so that the light appears whiter.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Pic #1* = The Not-so-Red Ludwigia

*Pic #2* = Name This Mystery Plant... It came as a hitchhiker with some Madagascar Lace and has grown 4" in about 2 months


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

JDM said:


> I'm currently running 14 hours but it has nothing to do with the plants, it's just our schedule around here. I think the reef is the wrong light spectrum.
> 
> Jeff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you're right about the spectrum


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Mystery plant:

Egeria najas AKA narrow leaf elodea (most likely)

Looks like a decent low light plant that like high KH water... Perhaps I should look for some.

Jeff


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I couldn't even see that plant in the earlier photos. I've no idea what it is, Jeff's suggestion may well be it.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Apparently that little bugger is native to North America and is very prolific. I plan on clipping the top and attempting to help it propagate. Once I get my new light system this thing should really take off. 
Also, my angel loves to nibble the leaves off of it. It sits at the edge of his domain and he is always chowing on it. 

Jeff, If you can't find a shoot of this plant I would be more than happy to send you one. Seeing as how I only have this one though it might be a few months before I could send it. Although, I think the plant might be considered a noxious weed... Customs might not like it


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Apparently that little bugger is native to North America and is very prolific. I plan on clipping the top and attempting to help it propagate. Once I get my new light system this thing should really take off.
> Also, my angel loves to nibble the leaves off of it. It sits at the edge of his domain and he is always chowing on it.
> 
> Jeff, If you can't find a shoot of this plant I would be more than happy to send you one. Seeing as how I only have this one though it might be a few months before I could send it. Although, I think the plant might be considered a noxious weed... Customs might not like it


Yah, probably not worth trying to send it... thanks for the thought though. If you were in Canada I might take you up on it. I think that most aquarium plants are noxious weeds somewhere, I am disappointed that I cannot find frogbit locally... I will just wait and look for it in our river in the summer, I'm pretty sure that I have seen something very close to it.

Besides, I am up to 12 species in my tank, it's only 37 gallons and I am running out of planting room so I have to start getting choosy about what I pick next.... although stems that go straight up are my best bet... those two swords I have take up a LOT of real estate.

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

JDM said:


> Besides, I am up to 12 species in my tank, it's only 37 gallons and I am running out of planting room so I have to start getting choosy about what I pick next.... although stems that go straight up are my best bet... those two swords I have take up a LOT of real estate.
> 
> Jeff.


Or... You could just buy a bigger tank :twisted: Muah ha ha ha!


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Just got the new light fixture for the tank. It's an Aqueon 48" with two T5 Bulbs. One of the bulbs is a 6700k Daylight 14 watt and the other is a Colormax 14 watt. The only issue I'm having is the local fish stores don't have a Marineland Glass top and none of the ones they do have will fit the Marineland 55Gallon. So what I did was purchase a sheet of Acrylic and will be cutting it to fit the top. This is temporary until I can get one ordered from Marineland (Unless this works nicely)


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Cory Trauma*

I've had a slight issue the past few days with Ammonia. It reached 2.0 but has now dropped down to .5 ppm Thanks to water changes and _Microbe-Lift NITE-OUT II_. The Ammonia level has also seemed to drop due to the new light I introduced to the system. I assume this is from the Plants being able to Photosynthesis. During all of this there hasn't been any casualties... However one of the Pepper Cory cats was a little stressed out (Breathing rapidly, laying out in the open and even "fainted" one time). At some point during this time one of his tank mates decided since he couldn't defend himself that they'd take a bite out of him :shock:. Whomever it was bit off his Adipose Fin and took a small bite out of his Tail Fin. Since I did a water change at the same time I added 40 ML of Stress Coat. He is no longer breathing heavy but hasn't moved very often from the substrate. I did manage to place some food in the vicinity of him and got him to eat. He seems to be healing a bit but his tail is swollen. I've decided to see if he will pull through instead of putting him out of his misery but it doesn't look promising.:-(


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Cory Trauma*

Well... 
The Pepper Cory appears to have pulled through. It was difficult and stressful to nurse him back to health. What I did was:

1. Spot fed him after feeding the tank so they didn't "trample" him while they were in their frenzy. I'm pretty sure this caused me to overfeed the tank which only made this event more difficult to manage

2. In the middle of last week I did a 40% water change and double-dosed the tank with API stresscoat.

3. Three days ago I started introducing API Melafix to the tank. I did this to hopefully keep the wound from getting infected. And according to the label this stuff helps promote quick healing.

I don't know if these steps attributed to the recovery of this pepper cory but he seems to be doing better.

4. Today (Sunday the 17th) I did a 20% water change, another dose of Melafix and made sure to clean as much of the Fecal matter off of the substrate to provide him with a cleaner environment so he could finish the healing process.

- The Melafix dosing will continue until friday the 22nd which will be when I do a 50% water change (Or whatever the instructions say on the Melafix bottle)


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

On a more positive note, I bought a Bolivian Ram today and I have to say this guy is awesome looking! Due to the recent Cory issues, Mr. BR is sitting in the Quarantine tank until I do the 50% WC on friday. 

So to sum up the week for the _VerdantGrotto Habitat_,

* Cory is almost fully healed!!!
Bought a (Male?) Bolivian Ram!!!
Bought the "2013 Annual Aquarium USA" magazine!!!
Almost all of my plants have significant new growth on them!!!
Two Bamboo Shrimp have been ordered and should be ready to go into my Quarantine Tank in 2 weeks!!!*


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Unfortunately the Pepper Cory didn't make it. He seemed to be doing alright but met his ultimate demise due to lack of nutrition and not being able to heal. Upon closer inspection of the fish his tail end seemed to be broken about .25" to .5" in front of his tail. He would only swim if he was forced to and it was for distances of about 1" to 2"... He looked utterly miserable

Also, when I tested the water quality when I got home from work the Ammonia levels were about 1.0ppm and the Nitrite and Nitrates were both at Zero. That being said, I did a 20% water change, ceased the Melafix dosing and even scrubbed a little Algae off the front of the glass. Since I was already elbow deep in Fish-water I went ahead and trimmed my Chain Sword, Red Melon Sword and Anubias. I also noticed my Ruffled Amazon Sword has some semi-transparent leaves on it. I didn't trim it yet because it looked to be trivial. After doing a little light reading I discovered that it's possibly malnourished (obviously) and that since they have a large root mass it's beneficial to use Fertilizer sticks or tablets around the base. I will be acquiring some of these tomorrow when I go get More water for the 50% water change at the end of the week per Melafix instructions. I didn't run a full Melafix Dosing course (7 days) but I wanted to be safe and also have the water on hand in case the Ammonia doesn't relax a bit.


I also realized that I hadn't changed the Light Timer from 14 hours (I had the base model LED light fixture that comes with the Marineland 55G kit). So I dialed it back down to 12 hours because of the New Light fixture I've got now:-D


On another note, I might be mistaken but I don't plan on using API's stress zyme anymore because it seems to be Ineffective. I have had better luck with *Microbe-Lift's* _Nite-Out II_ and _Special Blend_ (Purple bottle) so at this point I will be using that for my Bacterial Maintenance substance.


All of this does bring a few questions to mind as well...

*1. Has anyone had any issues with Hydrogen Sulfide build up in substrate?*

_ I poked around a little bit with a chopstick and a bubble or two came up here and 
there but nothing significant. No smell nor discoloration..._

The following questions have more than likely been asked numerous times but...

*2. How crucial is it that One puts "Nitrifying Bacteria" in the tank with every water change?*

*3. Should I measure the dose for the New Water that's going into the tank or the Overall size of the tank?*

_ If this is required every water-change (Weekly) then this could get very
expensive because I have a 55 Gallon._

*4. Could One clean the Filter Pump tube out if it discharges a good amount of Algae every time the tank loses it's prime?*

_ I understand that the filter and it's components house the Bacterial cultures that 
perform the Nitrification process but..._

*5. Could I clean the Filter Pump tube and the small lip where the water is discharged from the Pump?*

_ I currently use Marineland's Bio-wheel 350_


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

1) If you actually had H2S the bubbles would stink. At the depths of sand in a typical aquarium it is very unlikely that this would actually ever be a problem.

2) & 3) Once a tank is cycled you never need to add nitrifying bacteria, and even to cycle you don't NEED them... as to how effective the various products are, others can comment. They reproduce through binary fission and even if you managed to kill off half of your bacterial colony they could be back to normal in a day or two.

4) & 5) You can clean it all out, just use old tank water if you are on a chlorinated supply, if on a well, you could just rinse it out in the sink. Don't use any soap or cleaning products, just water. Unless you scrub, the bacteria will mostly remain intact. The surfaces of the tube and filter are nothing to worry about, it's the media and substrate that house the majority of the bacteria.

Jeff.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I concur.

Generally speaking, the less "stuff" you put in the water, the better [= healthier] the fish and biological system will be. All these chemical compounds build up and interact.

This is important with medications too. Unless one knows exactly what the issue is, adding any medication will almost always make things worse. All of these are stressful to fish, and adding more stress when the fish is trying to recover from something is not usually in the best interests of the fish. Plus there is the effect these products have on the other fish, plants, bacteria, whatever.

Everything that goes in the water affects all life in the water. It may be a good effect, to some extent, or it may be largely detrimental. It is common for all of us to want to "do something" when we see a problem, or think we do; we hopefully learn not to trust first instincts, but wait. Diagnosing fish disease is very difficult.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I've been doing some research on Aquatic Botany and the plants that I currently have in my tank. They're all pretty compatible with each other as long as I get a floating plant for one end of the tank to help shade the Anubias and maybe the Vallisneria and Chain Sword. So my question is this, _if the light intensity requirements for most of the plants in my tank are predominantly low to moderate how long should i keep the light on?_ _Or does the length of the time the light is on not matter? _
I've read somewhere that it's actually the intensity one should consider not necessarily the length of time. There is also a Ruffled Sword in the tank which it's suggested to have Moderate Light. _Should I just get some Frogbit to help filter some of the light and keep the light schedule on a 12 on / 12 off schedule?_ Thanks for your opinions

_The fixture I am using is an Aqueon 48" Dual T5 system with these bulbs

48" 6700k 14 watt
48" Colormax 14 watt_

On another note, I was curious as to what the acceptable/safe levels of Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates are. _If I have about 30" of fish in my 55 gallon and the Ammonia levels end up at 1.0ppm by the end of the week should I do a 20-25% WC once per week? Or should I stretch it to every other week?_ At the moment I replace 10 gallons every Sunday. To me this seems to be what this tank load needs. The only reason I'm bringing this up is I've read in several other peoples Aquarium logs and random threads that they do WC's every other week, once a month and one that stated every 2-3 months. _If I was to do a WC every other week or If the Ammonia started to rise above 1 ppm would it be beneficial to drop a filter media bag in my filter pump with some *Zeolite Crystals* ?_

_What are Zeolite Crystals and what are the pros and Cons of this Media? _


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> So my question is this, _if the light intensity requirements for most of the plants in my tank are predominantly low to moderate how long should i keep the light on?_ _Or does the length of the time the light is on not matter? _
> I've read somewhere that it's actually the intensity one should consider not necessarily the length of time. There is also a Ruffled Sword in the tank which it's suggested to have Moderate Light. _Should I just get some Frogbit to help filter some of the light and keep the light schedule on a 12 on / 12 off schedule?_ Thanks for your opinions
> 
> _The fixture I am using is an Aqueon 48" Dual T5 system with these bulbs_
> ...


Both intensity and duration are important, but not interchangeable. The intensity must be sufficient to drive photosynthesis for the plant species; if it is not, no lengthening of the photoperiod will compensate.

Photoperiod is solely determined by the nutrient level. Plants will photosynthesize to the maximum provided everything they need to do so is available. This means sufficient light intensity, and all 17 nutrients. Increasing light duration beyond the nutrients will only cause algae to increase because it is not so demanding. And most or many of us use algae as the key to duration; I certainly do. My lights are on 8 hours a day; if I leave them on for 9 hours, brush algae immediately begins to increase. I arrived at 8 hours by starting at 12 and working back until I had algae under control. Even during the summer this is important; I used to see algae increasing in the summer, until I reasoned that it was because the additional light intensity and day length coming in via the windows was increasing the light beyond what the nutrients balanced. For the past 2 summers I have kept the windows covered with blinds and thick drapes; no more algae increases during the summer.

Some factor will give out first. We call this the limiting factor to plant growth, or the law of minimum. Usually it will be CO2 (in a natural non-CO2 diffused planted tank). We can increase the other nutrients with various fertilizers. But CO2 occurs naturally and once it is too low to support photosynthesis, the plants slow and may even stop photosynthesis.



> On another note, I was curious as to what the acceptable/safe levels of Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates are. _If I have about 30" of fish in my 55 gallon and the Ammonia levels end up at 1.0ppm by the end of the week should I do a 20-25% WC once per week? Or should I stretch it to every other week?_ At the moment I replace 10 gallons every Sunday. To me this seems to be what this tank load needs. The only reason I'm bringing this up is I've read in several other peoples Aquarium logs and random threads that they do WC's every other week, once a month and one that stated every 2-3 months. _If I was to do a WC every other week or If the Ammonia started to rise above 1 ppm would it be beneficial to drop a filter media bag in my filter pump with some *Zeolite Crystals* ?_
> 
> _What are Zeolite Crystals and what are the pros and Cons of this Media? _


Ammonia and nitrite must at all times be zero. Nothing above this is safe. Ammonia as low as 0.2 is known to harm the gills of fish. Nitrite is similar.

Nitrates should be as low as possible. Most knowledgeable sources are now suggesting 10 ppm as the highest, with 20 ppm absolute tops. It would take me too long to go into all this, but I did in an earlier thread if you can find it. When I'm back tomorrow, if you haven't, I will try to set this out.

Water changes must be regular, meaning every week, regardless. The volume can depend upon the biology; in a heavily planted tank with few fish, less water needs changing. The more fish, or the larger the fish, the more volume must be changed. This is explained here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/regular-partial-water-changes-117205/

And to reiterate what is in that article: there is no "test" for water changes, because the "stuff" you are removing cannot be seen by any test. Some tests, such as nitrate, pH, ammonia an nitrite can signal the need for a water change, but by the time these tests--any of them--show trouble, it is too late, the fish have been detrimentally affected.

Zeolite is not something to use in a planted tank because, similar to carbon, it will remove essential nutrients. It removes ammonia/ammonium for one thing, which is good if you have an ammonia problem, but in planted tanks this should never occur. So this is a remedy for a problem, not a continuing presence,

Hope the above helps.

Byron.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

I am on a 14 hour schedule right now. Plants are doing well. I use an LED fixture that is 24" long over a 30" tank mounted offset to one end which gives a lower light section for my java ferns and crypts and higher more direct light over the red ludwigia , dwarf hygrophila , giant vallisneria , etc. I added duckweed and it provides even more shade but it is tough to manage. I am looking for some dwarf water lettuce (LFS is bringing it in soon) to replace the duckweed, my first choice was frogbit but it is banned here so I can't just buy some easily.

If plants are growing well now, I would choose not to mess with anything. I add a liquid fert once a week, use a couple of tabs and am happy that everything is growing well with no sign of algae. 

Like Byron said, duration cannot replace intensity but once you have a good intensity the duration needs to be tailored to your tank. I suspect that the bulbs you have are fine, intensity wise. Adding too much of one factor will require you to bump everything else up. If you start using the CO2 booster you will need to have the ferts up and light duration up. 

The CO2 liquid is not necessarily recommended due to what is in the liquid other than the CO2 component, others have commented about formaldehyde or similar preservatives if I recall. Not good for fish. Better with a CO2 injection system.

If your ammonia is regularly climbing something is out of whack. With plants and a cycled tank you should never see ammonia as high as 1ppm, normally. Overfeeding, excess crap on the bottom, filter full of decaying food or dead fish might cause ammonia to spike. You shouldn't need water changes to handle ammonia (or nitrites) unless it has spiked... and even then the water change isn't the cure for the problem, it just deals with the then high level which should be a short and temporary occurrence.

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

_If your ammonia is regularly climbing something is out of whack. With plants and a cycled tank you should never see ammonia as high as 1ppm, normally. Overfeeding, excess crap on the bottom, filter full of decaying food or dead fish might cause ammonia to spike. You shouldn't need water changes to handle ammonia (or nitrites) unless it has spiked... and even then the water change isn't the cure for the problem, it just deals with the then high level which should be a short and temporary occurrence.

Jeff._

Honestly, I'm fairly confident this is where my problem lies. I should probably clean the filter out more often, quit overfeeding and devise some way to vacuum the constant supply of fecal matter off the substrate halfway through the week in addition to the Water Change on the weekends.

Thanks for the advice guys


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Volume of water changes insufficient*

So I'm thinking the volume of water that I replace every weekend is insufficient to control the waste in the habitat. I have been doing water changes of *10 gallons every week which is 18.18% of 55 Gallons*. I'm planning on increasing the amount of water I change to *15 gallons which is 27.27% of 55 gallons*. As far as the total volume of water in the tank, I would assume a portion of the 55 gallons is deducted due to substrate, driftwood, the slate cave feature and other decor. On this note, I feel safe to assume that if I do change 15 gallons every weekend then I will be changing approximately 30% of the water. Hopefully this isn't too much. 

On another note, I also acquired 2 more plants to introduce into the habitat. I'm hoping this coupled with some Amazon Frogbit might alleviate some of the Ammonia output from the fish load. Plus I got to do some Aquascaping :-D

(2) Cryptocoryne Parva (Came as one plant but was actually two smaller plants)

(1) Bunch of Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis (Micro sword)


So I'm thinking that between the 30% weekly water changes, the additional plants that are in the tank, the ones that are soon to be in the tank, daily rinsing of the filter pad and midweek cleaning of the substrate the Ammonia should be well taken care of. For the midweek cleaning of the substrate I planned on using the gravel vac and my 5 gallon fish bucket that has a hole in the lid. I have a small piece of filter pad that I plan on placing over the hole and screening the debris into it. We'll see how it goes...


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Well... The plants are flourishing, just did a trim a week ago and ammonia levels are decreasing due to enhanced volumes of water changes. I also purchased some Amazon Frogbit off of the internet which should be here sometime this coming week. I have some low-light plants at one end of the tank which these will cover nicely.

Unfortunately, when I did a water change in the middle of the week in an effort to curb the ammonia levels. I left the cover off of the tank for awhile. So a few days later when I was observing the fish and counting the schools... 7 out 8 Black Neon Tetra s were present. This was confusing because I couldn't find the fish anywhere in the tank. I had assumed he was consumed by his tankmates. So when I was cleaning a little in the house today, I noticed a dark spot on the floor in the corner of the room. Upon further inspection... # 8... I hate to lose a fish due to a careless mistake but I'm glad I located it.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Ok , It's water change day. I've switched one of the 5 gallon Jugs to tap-water so It doesn't "shock" the fish when I switch completely to Tap. I doubt the difference in my tap water and the RO water with out minerals will hurt them but just to be on the safe side. We are about to have a new addition to the family in the next few weeks and I'm looking to trim down the expenses to allow for another girl :lol: ... So to that point, I will be attempting to no longer use Reverse Osmosis Water because it comes out to about 10$ a week. 

I did however get another bottle of RO water (for the jug) and this water has some added minerals for taste. I was curious as to if the minerals added were undesirable for fish. The research I've done is inconclusive... 

Disclaimer on lid states : Mineral Amounts are not nutritionally significant

Minerals are as follows : 

Potassium Bicarbonate
Calcium Chloride
Magnesium Chloride


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> I did however get another bottle of RO water (for the jug) and this water has some added minerals for taste. I was curious as to if the minerals added were undesirable for fish. The research I've done is inconclusive...
> 
> Disclaimer on lid states : Mineral Amounts are not nutritionally significant
> 
> ...


Calcium chloride and magnesium chloride are both in liquid fertilizers such as Flourish Comprehensive. Calcium and magnesium are the principal mineral salts that determine the GH of water. So in this sense, they are not going to harm fish, generally speaking. Potassium bicarbonate is similar, though the bicarbonate aspect deals with alkalinity (KH).

Soft water fish obviously have no need for these, so adding them is not going to be beneficial. But as you are increasing the tap water, presumably which has more calcium, magnesium, potassium, you are simply going in that direction.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I knew magnesium and calcium were the source of hard water but it was always stated as Magnesium and calcium and never magnesium chloride or Calcium chloride. I was just curious as to if these were the same elements found in tap or other hard waters...


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Calcium and magnesium are elements, the others are compounds. Not the same thing. Calcium hardness is most often calcium carbonate.

Jeff
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

These compounds split apart in water however, into the calcium and magnesium. These raise the hardness, whatever it is attached to in it's dry state doesn't really affect it. So you have ions of calcium and magnesium in your water (as well as chlorine ions).


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Yes, what I meant was that the calcium and magnesium (and to some extent potassium) are minerals that contribute to the GH of water. These are in plant fertilizers, as chlorides in the case of calcium, magnesium and potassium in Flourish Comp [also in their Replenish], as sulfates (all 3) in the case of Equilibrium, etc., so they are not harmful to fish, which was your question. However, we do not want to overdo these with soft water fish, as the minerals do impact the fish.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Very Informative  Thank you all


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> Ok , It's water change day. I've switched one of the 5 gallon Jugs to tap-water so It doesn't "shock" the fish when I switch completely to Tap. I doubt the difference in my tap water and the RO water with out minerals will hurt them but just to be on the safe side. We are about to have a new addition to the family in the next few weeks and I'm looking to trim down the expenses to allow for another girl :lol: ... So to that point, I will be attempting to no longer use Reverse Osmosis Water because it comes out to about 10$ a week.
> 
> I did however get another bottle of RO water (for the jug) and this water has some added minerals for taste. I was curious as to if the minerals added were undesirable for fish. The research I've done is inconclusive...
> 
> ...


 Gee

if you chnage potassium bicarbonate to sodium bicarbonate you get the diy two part for maintaining calcium/magnesium/alk for marine systems. but then that requires much higher amounts then our FW systems.

just my ramblings which are pretty well off topic in this case.

my .02


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Hard white dots*

These small dots are starting to cover every piece of driftwood in my tank. I'm curious as to what they are. They seem a little different than the last set of unknown white dots that plagued a previous tank. These things seem to be hardened and will scrape off with a knife. I noticed a tank in a LFS that had an abundant amount of these and asked the "attendant" if he knew what they were... He hesitated and then finally stated that they must be some sort of calcification from minerals. I'm hesitant to buy that because the water in my tank is Soft... At least it was a month ago 

Any idea what they are?


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Im trying to add the attachment but the file size is too large. 20 kb ??? Really?

Anyway, I can PDF it so I'll do that. I'm also trying to add the image with PNG...


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Do they look like these behind the plant?

If so, what kind of snails do you have? These are tiger snail eggs.

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Here it is. These things look like a hardened version of the cory eggs that I see on a regular basis. Although the Cory Eggs are 9 out of 10 times all on the glass. I wasn't sure what they could be so I just monitored them. They seem to have spread (or developed) on all 3 pieces of driftwood now...


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

That's exactly what they look like. I do have a Tiger Nerite Snail and there were several snail hitch-hikers on some plants a few months back but they seem to have disappeared...:-D


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

It's the tiger snails laying eggs. They won't hatch as I think they need brackish or salt water for that.... I suppose that you could put a driftwood piece in the tank, get some snail eggs, transfer it to a properly setup tank and get your own snails.

.... sounds like another project in the works. My daughter would like the idea, she already asked if we could do something with the eggs.

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

That'd be cool. Let us know how that goes and how you accomplish it. Good Luck


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Is there anyone that seconds the Snail Egg theory ?


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

On another Note, I recently received some Amazon Frogbit in the Mail. A small little bunch of it and it is now in the tank. I have to say, It looks a little smaller in person than what I expected. The only issue is keeping it to one side of the tank and of course keeping it from getting trapped behind the Filter.

JDM, didn't you devise some way to keep your duckweed from traveling accross the tank?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Yah, little tiny leashes.:roll:

I settled on the sparse is better. Too many issues with some of what I tried. Some divider across the tank floating in the water would be best. With frogbit being larger than duckweed this would be easier to do. Air hose would work well.

Now I dropped my water level and decided to just keep the weed thinned out more, let it roam. I use a canister though so there isn't much for it to get hung up on.

The primary reason I got it was to provide some cheap ammonia sink while adding a bunch of new fish, I didn't want another nitrite spike. It worked. 

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

JDM said:


> Yah, little tiny leashes.:roll:
> 
> I settled on the sparse is better. Too many issues with some of what I tried. Some divider across the tank floating in the water would be best. With frogbit being larger than duckweed this would be easier to do. Air hose would work well.
> 
> ...


Leashes ! :lol: 

I have a small sheet of Acrylic that I was thinking of taking to a Glass cutter and have it Cut to fit the T-bar and then acquire some acrylic silicone and Fix it to the recessed portion under the T-bar and have the smooth beveled edge hanging down into the water. I would do this when the water level was low enough to not interfere with this process or the process not interfere with the Quality of tank water.

This was one idea though. I also thought about using Air line like you suggested but was unsure of the physical appearance of it as well as how I would keep the Air line in place...


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## LadyKeiva (Nov 17, 2012)

Before my Frogbit filled out, the small group I had just wandered around my tank. The spiraling drove me insane. I actually ended up just bunching it together where I wanted it, sort of lassoed the group with a cotton thread and tied a lead to something, for me I tied it to the top my canisters intake. I'm sure you could use fishing line or the like as well.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

I thought of extending the cross bar down. The issue I had was the catfish (Corys if you will) scoot to the top for their gulp of air FAST. I would hate to have them brain themselves on something they likely can't see. The other night I heard one whack the glass, it's close to the water, which was part of why I dropped the water level. It also made me wonder if my catfish losses were related to them bonking themselves one too many times. Just like hockey players, I might suppose they would be prone to some sort of fish concussion and, perhaps, it causes enough stress to let some infection take hold. 

That's a little out there theory wise, but lowering the water eliminates even the unlikely chance if it happening. At least they won't bonk anymore. 

Oh, back to the topic... if you do the acrylic, split a hose length wise and push it onto the plastic as sort of a bumper... save the fishes noggins.

Jeff.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

LadyKeiva said:


> Before my Frogbit filled out, the small group I had just wandered around my tank. The spiraling drove me insane. I actually ended up just bunching it together where I wanted it, sort of lassoed the group with a cotton thread and tied a lead to something, for me I tied it to the top my canisters intake. I'm sure you could use fishing line or the like as well.


Like I said, little tiny leashes... not so funny now, eh?:-D

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

LadyKeiva said:


> Before my Frogbit filled out, the small group I had just wandered around my tank. The spiraling drove me insane. I actually ended up just bunching it together where I wanted it, sort of lassoed the group with a cotton thread and tied a lead to something, for me I tied it to the top my canisters intake. I'm sure you could use fishing line or the like as well.


You literally used a tiny little leash :lol: that's hilarious. 

I read that their are different types of Frogbit. North american, Amazon, etc... Anyone have an Idea on the sizes of these? The frogbit I purchased is approximately a CM in diameter. Maybe it's just a bunch of starts?


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## LadyKeiva (Nov 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> You literally used a tiny little leash :lol:
> 
> I read that their are different types of Frogbit. North american, Amazon, etc... Anyone have an Idea on the sizes of these? The frogbit I purchased is approximately a CM in diameter. Maybe it's just a bunch of starts?


AquaBid.com - Item # liveplantsf1363943537 - Limnobium laevigatum, Amazon Frogbit - Ends: Fri Mar 22 2013 - 04:12:17 AM CDT

That was what I had bought. Started small like that, then eventually the older plants grow to around 5 inches in diameter and sent out babies all over. Mine grow like crazy, the roots reach the bottom in a week >,>.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I'm pretty sure what I have is the daughter plants as they are smaller than what was displayed in the link you posted. If these things are fast growing I suppose I will know soon enough exactly how big they can get  

As far as segregating them from the filter side of the tank. I think I'm going to try the Air line technique first... We'll see how well it works


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## LadyKeiva (Nov 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> I'm pretty sure what I have is the daughter plants as they are smaller than what was displayed in the link you posted. If these things are fast growing I suppose I will no soon enough exactly how big they can get
> 
> As far as segregating them from the filter side of the tank. I think I'm going to try the Air line technique first... We'll see how well it works


Not entirely sure that they're supposed to grow as fast as mine do. I just think my lights are too bright (I have T5 HO's). Which is why I keep the majority of the tank thick with frogbit, does a create job at cutting down the light.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

LadyKeiva said:


> Not entirely sure that they're supposed to grow as fast as mine do. I just think my lights are too bright (I have T5 HO's). Which is why I keep the majority of the tank thick with frogbit, does a create job at cutting down the light.


I have dual T5 HO's as well. This is partly why I'm wanting to corral them to one side of the tank. I have several low to moderate Light plants on the side that is opposite the Filter.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

VerdantGrotto said:


> You literally used a tiny little leash :lol: that's hilarious.
> 
> I read that their are different types of Frogbit. North american, Amazon, etc... Anyone have an Idea on the sizes of these? The frogbit I purchased is approximately a CM in diameter. Maybe it's just a bunch of starts?


This is referenced in our profile of this plant. The photos in the profile are, according to the planted tank sources I checked, the true Amazon Frogbit. I have one of the other temperate species in my tank; the leaves are basically identical, but when it flowers it is obviously not the same. In fact, we had an email from someone in the California Agriculture Department about having this invasive plant in our profiles, as it is a noxious weed in some states; he was going by the photo of the flower which happened to be one of my plants, which I had thought was the Amazon species, but they are not. I since removed the flower photo to avoid confusion. I have had this plant for 4 years, and it does well for a few weeks, then it dies back almost to nothing. Now that I know it is the temperate species, I am thinking this may be due to the constant higher temperatures which would not be natural to the plant.

When I acquired the two spindly plants from a local fish store, the leaves were probably around 1.5 or 2 cm across; on my healthy plants, they are from 4 to 5 cm.

Byron.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

... I wish I had a 150 Gallon Tank...


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Well I managed to "corral" the frogbit by using Vinyl water line tied to the T-bar of the tank. I used fishing string and tied three locations on the T-bar and a lead weight to the rear location which I then hung over the back of the tank (Not in the tank). The weight helps keep it snug in place. The ends of the tubing were plugged with plastic screw-like drywall anchors that I purchased from Home Depot.

This little setup had a few kinks I had to work out but now it works great and you can't even see the divider... Just nice little clusters of Frogbit floating around above my low-light plants


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

The newest addition to my family was born on Wednesday the 27th of March :-D 
She is a Healthy 8 lbs 8 oz bundle of sunshine ! I hope the Fish Tank can handle itself for awhile because I now have 3 Full time Jobs... Work, a 2.5 year old girl and a 4 day old baby girl :-D:lol::-D:lol:


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

Congratulations!

Busy busy busy guy!

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

The Tank is still doing fine. 0 to .5 ammonia levels and 10ppm nitrate levels but other than that every thing seems fine. I'm working 7 days a week 12 hours a day at my job so I've had to do water changes every two weeks when I have a mandatory "Fatigue Day"... I'm changing 20 Gallons out of a planted and decorated 55 gallon tank. Hopefully this will be enough. The PH is also higher than I'd like it to be (8.2)... I'm considering putting a softener pillow in the filter to bring the hardness of the water down. That should take care of it...

See ya in June :lol:


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> The Tank is still doing fine. 0 to .5 ammonia levels and 10ppm nitrate levels but other than that every thing seems fine. I'm working 7 days a week 12 hours a day at my job so I've had to do water changes every two weeks when I have a mandatory "Fatigue Day"... I'm changing 20 Gallons out of a planted and decorated 55 gallon tank. Hopefully this will be enough. The PH is also higher than I'd like it to be (8.2)... I'm considering putting a softener pillow in the filter to bring the hardness of the water down. That should take care of it...
> 
> See ya in June :lol:


 
Don't do anything for the high pH. Plants sucking out carbon dioxide will raise pH to that level and higher. I am not aware of any fish the is harmed by a low carbon dioxide high oxygen environment.

If you're using an ammonia lock or dechlor it could be your ammonia levels are the safe(r) locked ammonia not the dangerous free ammonia. Only the seachem multitest ammonia kit can measure both from what I know. So I would not add anything chemically to treat for the ammonia.


all in all sounds good for your now busy life.

my .02


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*HOB vs Canister Filters*

I will be doing some maintenance to my filter on the morrow due to it vibrating very loudly. I'm afraid that if leave it running it will burn the pump up. I've read in some other threads that leaving filters off for even just a few hours "could" kill the bacteria established in the bio-wheel (or whatever type of biological filter implement). Unfortunately I have to work another 12 hrs shift tomorrow so it will have to wait until I get home. I've actually been considering a canister filter but the HOB I currently have on the tank (MarineLand 350) has proven to be sufficient. On that note, if it isn't able to be fixed by maintenance of the impeller and pump-works then I will purchasing a new filtration system... Cost, Effectiveness, Maintenance these are all aspects I will be considering...


*HOB filter or Canister filter?* :|


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

I wouldn't worry so much about the biofilm on the wheel, just keep them damp. Even a few hours likely isn't enough to dry it out to the point of killing much.

Jeff.


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

I just got back from a 2000 mile drive from Chicago to Los Angeles. It was quite an interesting trip and in Vegas I met the guys from the TV show "Tanked" and got some autographs... Too bad I can't afford a custom tank from them


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

VerdantGrotto said:


> I just got back from a 2000 mile drive from Chicago to Los Angeles. It was quite an interesting trip and in Vegas I met the guys from the TV show "Tanked" and got some autographs... Too bad I can't afford a custom tank from them


 
Sounds to me like the autograph cost enouth. :lol:


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Well the 55 gallon is running smooth and healthy. Thanks for all of the input from everyone. Eventually i'd like to upgrade this tank to a 75 gallon but it might have to wait a few years. That's fine with me because I convinced the Mrs. that we should get two 54 gallon corner tanks for the dining room :twisted:... Of course this would be one at a time until I get the hang of Saltwater. Look for the next thread in the coming months... Yeah!


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

*Baby Bristlenose Plecos!*

So after being away for about 6 weeks for work, (Thankfully my wife did a couple water changes for me:-D) I noticed something fluttering around in the tank. When I looked closer I realized it was a baby Pleco! So after looking thoroughly at the tank I counted 7 of them. They're about 1/2" each and they're all hiding behind my little mag float cleaner. I quickly informed the Mrs. to leave the float alone so these little critters have somewhere to hide. I was about to do an upgrade on my filter system from a Penguin Biowheel 350 to a Marineland C-360 Canister Filter… I think I'll wait so as to not disturb the little guys :-D


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

cool!


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## LadyKeiva (Nov 17, 2012)

So adorable!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Congrats on the new babies - and the older new baby! Sounds like things are going well over there!!!


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## VerdantGrotto (Nov 22, 2012)

Maybe I should fix the TV...:lol:


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