# 45 Gallon Reef Wishlist



## qwerty0973

I have not picked out the corals yet, but I have my fish I want picked out

1 Royal Gramma Basslet
5 Blue/Green Reef Chromis (moving 2 from my 10 gallon)
3 Occellaris Clownfish 
Moving my mandarin
2 Yellowhead Jawfish
I really want a Flame Angel, but I heard they were'nt very good in a reef aquarium so instead maybe a McCosker's Flasher Wrasse. 

comments or concerns would be greatly apperciated.
I gladly take constructive criticism.


----------



## Cody

Whoa there, that would be overstocked. I have a 40G reef, and would never put more than maybe 7 fish in there, and that would be max with all the fish being small.

I will look at your fish list...

-Gramma: That would be fine
-Chromis: Bad idea IMO. They kill each other off in groups untill you get only 1 left. 
-Clowns: Why 3? 2, in a pair, would be best. 
-You better wait for the tank to mature for that mandarin.
-Jawfish: Again, why two? One is fine.
-Flame angel: Don't risk it in a reef.
-Wrasse: I am no expert on wrasse's, so I don't know.

If it were me, I would do this with your list:
-1 Gramma
-2 Clowns
-1 Jawfish
-1 Mandarin (because you already have it)
-1 other fish
-1 other fish after the tank has matured 1+ year and if everything is ok.


----------



## Pasfur

Bob Goemans has a nice section on his website that could come in handy for you:
Welcome to Saltcorner.

When it comes to Centropyge angelfish, Bob only has 3 species that he recommends for a reef environment. They are the Coral Beauty, Half Black, and Flame. I have never kept a Flame Angel at home, but I plan to take Bob's advice on the subject and put one into my 180. From what I can tell, he is very conservative in his recommendations. 

I agree with Cody's comments above on all other selections. I think you are pushing the limits with most of these suggestions. Keeping 3 Clownfish is rarely advisable. Keeping a Mandarine in a small aquarium is generally a receipe for disaster. (Yes, a 40 is small.) Chromis rarely work well in small groups and generally only are kept successfully long term in groups of 20+ in very large tanks. 

I think you still have a lot of planning to do. In the marine hobby, you have to sacrifice personal interest in favor of what works best for the fish. Sometimes that means waiting until the "next" tank for the species you really want.


----------



## onefish2fish

welcome to the forum. 
i agree with above postings but would like to hear more about the tank and setup.
sump? filtration? sand? lights? flow? what type of corals are you planning on keeping? and everything else you wish to include.


----------



## qwerty0973

*Thank you*

Thank you for the consideration and time you have put into this. I won't be getting this whole setup for a while due to saving for France 2011! So this will give me ample time to think. So revised stock list will include:


My 2 Chromis
My mandarin (fed copepods from liveaquaria)
2 Clownfish
1 Yellow Head Jawfish
Royal Gramma Basslet

Later on I may add a Wrasse

Corals:

Certified Soft Coral Frag 5 Pack:
Saltwater Aquarium Corals for Marine Reef Aquariums: Drs. Foster & Smith Certified Soft Coral Frag 5 Pack - Aquacultured

Button Polyp
Saltwater Aquarium Fish for Marine Aquariums: Button Polyp

Multicolored Colony Polyp
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+599+1972&pcatid=1972

Hairy Mushroom Coral
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+598+665&pcatid=665

White Pom Pom Xenia
Saltwater Aquarium Corals for Marine Reef Aquariums: White Pom Pom Xenia, Red Sea - Aquacultured

Tube Coral
Saltwater Aquarium Corals for Marine Reef Aquariums: Tube Coral, Orange

Live Rock:

Fiji Premium Live Rock (45#)
Fiji Live Rock: Select Premium Fiji Live Rock from Drs. Foster & Smith

Refugium Rubble (10#)
Saltwater Aquarium Live Rock for Marine Reef Aquariums: Refugium Rubble

Inverts:

My Green Pincushion Urchin

My Coral Banded Shrimp

10 Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs

20 Dwarf Zebra Hermit Crabs

3 Emerald Mithrax Crabs

2 Feather Dusters

1 Orange Sea Star

5 Cerith Snails

8 Nassarius Snails

5 Bumble Bee Snails

8 Spiny Star Astraea Snails

Substrate:

40 # Reef Snad
Aquarium Substrates: Nature's Ocean Bio-Active Reef Sand and Reef Substrate

5 # Miracle Mud

Equipment:

Rapids Pro Series Filter
Aquarium Filtration: Rapids Pro Series Wet/Dry Filter from Tom Aquarium Products

Visi-Therm Stealth Heater

Coralife Lunar Aqualights Compact Fluorescent Strip Lights
Aquarium Lighting: Coralife Lunar Aqualights Compact Fluorescent Strip Lights

Maxi-Jet Wavemaker System
Wave Makers: Maxi-Jet Natural Wavemaker System for Reef Aquariums

Aquafuge Hang on Refugium


----------



## Pasfur

Your choice in filter will need to change. Lets discuss this further.

In a marine aquarium your goal is to eliminate the breakdown of organic acids, which if allowed to break down will cause an increase in Nitrates and a decrease in carbonates. The filter you have chosen is designed to cause organic breakdown. This filter is a biological filter, which allows for a surface area for organic waste to attach and be metabolized by the bacteria bed. This is exactly opposite of what you want in a marine aquarium.

You want a protein skimmer, live rock, and aragonite sand. The protein skimmer is the ONLY type of filter that should be added to a marine aquarium. The skimmer REMOVES organic acids directly from the water, allowing for a very stable marine environment. 

This concept is wide spread and accepted without debate by the greater marine hobby.


----------



## qwerty0973

thank you Pasfur. I am realtively new to saltwater. I had absolutely no clue all you needed was a protein skimmer, I have actually never heard that before. I am sorry for some of my ignorance about this.


----------



## Pasfur

Not a problem. That is why we are here.


----------



## qwerty0973

thank you once again Pasfur. Could you reccomend a good protein skimmer? And thank your for not talking down to me...that ticks me off tremendously.


----------



## qwerty0973

oh and could you show me a website discussing protein skimmers as the only filtration? I would like to learn more about this :].


----------



## Pasfur

What size tank? I must have missed this in the tread.

As to a web site... EVERY ONE OF THEM! LOL This is just how its done. Show me a site that says otherwise.

Ok, i'm kidding you a bit. Here is a web site that needs your visit monthly:
Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine - Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

Here is a great one that has a wonderful "Tank of the Month" column. These are some of the most successful tanks in the hobby:
February 2009 - Volume 8, Issue 1 - Reefkeeping Magazine


----------



## Cody

Qwerty, the skimmer is not the only filter. Your live rock and sand bed (depending on how deep it is) is also your main filtration, as Pasfur mentioned earlier. Along with plenty of water flow and water changes.


----------



## qwerty0973

45 Gallons


----------



## qwerty0973

I knew that the live rock and sand were also filters. please don't talk down to me it's annoying.


----------



## Pasfur

Sump system or hang-on skimmer?


----------



## Pasfur

Also, talk to me about the Miracle Mud. Why? This is a technique that has not caught on in the hobby. I suspect you will have a hard time finding help.


----------



## Cody

qwerty0973 said:


> I knew that the live rock and sand were also filters. please don't talk down to me it's annoying.


Umm... I wasn't? I was just reminding you because *I thought* you were implying that the skimmer was the only filtration.


----------



## qwerty0973

hang on skimmer please


----------



## Pasfur

qwerty0973 said:


> I knew that the live rock and sand were also filters. please don't talk down to me it's annoying.


Qwerty... you will find this forum to be very different from most internet sites. The group here is awesome. There is virtually no pecking order, no hurt feelings or childishness, just a great group of people. 
Trust me, Cody intends to help.

Cody... Qwerty is a woman. ;-) You have say things warm and fuzzy... try something like this next time...

Qwerty... Wow! What a beautiful dress! Where did you buy that? My sister would look great in that dress, of course you have a much better figure that she does. Say, did you realize that live rock and live sand are actually a type of filter? I'm sure you did, but i wouldn't want you to loose any livestock because I was to stubborn to ask.

See, something like that.

8)


----------



## Cody

Oh, Pasfur... my life-lessons coach.


----------



## qwerty0973

ok...I'll try to be better haha. Thank you Cody...sorry to be all batchy. I actually tend to get along with girls then guys anyway. So I'll say this thank you for trying to help and I wont get all pissy again.


----------



## Pasfur

High quality model, Berlin X2, capable of an upgrade to a 75 gallon or larger. Sump or hang on capable. Great for reef or high bioload FOWLR:
Berlin X2 Venturi Skimmer- 13.7 in. x 20 in. x 7.9 in. | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

Small step down in price, Coralife Super Skimmer, capable up to a 55 gallon tank. A nice choice for a soft coral tank, or FOWLR at a normal stocking level. 
Super Skimmer with Needle Wheel - Up to 65 gallon | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

Another drop in price, the only skimmer for under $100 that I would consider decent in quality. The Seaclone 100 would be acceptable on your tank, and a great choice if you have a tight budget.
Seaclone Protein Skimmer 100 - 17 3/4 in. high | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

I would determine the price that you are able to afford, and then buy the best quality of the 3 that fits your budget.


----------



## qwerty0973

should i get a sump?


----------



## Pasfur

There are a lot of benefits to a sump, but the cost increases by a few hundred dollars. Do you have the ability to afford a sump in your budget?


----------



## qwerty0973

well i'm getting a job at a lfs so i'm gonna save


----------



## onefish2fish

if i was in your shoes, i would do a DIY sump. 

all it basically is, is a tank with acrylic sheets siliconed in. if you compare how much it will cost to make vs. how much it costs to buy its a pretty significant difference.


----------



## qwerty0973

do you have directions of some kind? and how do you plumb it?


----------



## onefish2fish

http://www.fishforum.com/member-submitted-articles/understanding-sumps-15930/

YouTube - Reef Tank D.I.Y. Sump part 1

my sump, which is a mess right now because im keeping extra rock in it for the moment but its chambers go:
| skimmer (inlet) | bubble trap | return pump | bubble trap | refugium (inlet) |


----------



## qwerty0973

well thanks a lot for this information! This is going to be in my room, and I heard they are noisy. is there anyway you can reduce the noise? And what kind of noise? Like mechanical or water running?


----------



## onefish2fish

water running and possible hum of a return pump. theres ways to reduce noise though like using a durso standpipe in your overflow, if you enclose the sump in the stand that will muffle the noise too.


----------



## qwerty0973

I do not have a reef ready aquarium so I will be using an overflow. Would this cut down on noise? and could I use that durso standpipe still?
Continuous Siphon Overflow


----------



## onefish2fish

that overflow would work, your going to want to remove the foam and it should be a bulk head there that you can slip a DIY durso into. ( they are so simple to make with a few pieces of PVC ) your also going to want to get an overflow box rated as close to your return pump but keep in mind that a return pump will have head loss ( pressure lost when pumping up a certain ammount of feet, which will slow the flow ) i personally like my return pump alittle strong and i "t" it off with a ball valve to return to the sump so i can make adjustments by opening and closing the valve if that makes sense. '

your also going to want the aqualifter ( the pump thats on top there ) to prevent having unwated siphon breaks which would be disasterous.


----------



## qwerty0973

would this be a good light to get?
Metal Halide Reef Aquarium Lighting: IceCap 250 and 400 HQI Pendant & Metal Halide Ballast


----------



## Pasfur

onefish2fish said:


> that overflow would work, your going to want to remove the foam and it should be a bulk head there that you can slip a DIY durso into. ( they are so simple to make with a few pieces of PVC ) your also going to want to get an overflow box rated as close to your return pump but keep in mind that a return pump will have head loss ( pressure lost when pumping up a certain ammount of feet, which will slow the flow ) i personally like my return pump alittle strong and i "t" it off with a ball valve to return to the sump so i can make adjustments by opening and closing the valve if that makes sense. '
> 
> your also going to want the aqualifter ( the pump thats on top there ) to prevent having unwated siphon breaks which would be disasterous.


Can you use a durso with an overflow box? I ask because of the small hole drilled in the top of the durso pipe, designed to keep a small pocket of air at the top of the pipe.


----------



## onefish2fish

i made my durso for my overflow box. all it consists of is a few pieces of PVC. A 90,T and an endcap on the top, you then drill a small hole in the endcap. very simple to make.


----------



## Tyyrlym

Pasfur said:


> Can you use a durso with an overflow box? I ask because of the small hole drilled in the top of the durso pipe, designed to keep a small pocket of air at the top of the pipe.


Sure. The actual U tube pulling water out of the aquarium doesn't have to go straight to the sump. A second pipe, a durso, can take the water from the overflow box down to the sump.


----------



## Quaddity

Be careful with a Flame Angel in a reef. I put one in my 40 this week with a few frags of coral from my 90 and the flame has nipped at xenia, some zoa, and an orange monti. It's not doing damage but definitely nipping at those. The kenya tree frag I put in there it hasn't nipped at that I've noticed.


----------



## onefish2fish

Quaddity said:


> The kenya tree frag I put in there it hasn't nipped at that I've noticed.


 no one ever likes the kenya tree


----------



## Pasfur

I would say with Centropyge angelfish, that you are always taking a chance in a reef. My Coral Beauty has been a gem, but it even takes a brief bite at my mushrooms every month or so. In my experience, and in talking to other hobbyists about this genus of fish, I think the key is to keep the fish well fed, with frequent but small feedings. Otherwise they go out looking for a nibble.


----------



## Quaddity

onefish2fish said:


> no one ever likes the kenya tree


And they just keep growing and growing...


----------

