# No Nitrite or Nitrate reading? after months?



## Velios

Hi All, 

I'm not sure what is going on with my 60l tank. I am a new fishkeeper, but i am not sure what it is that i am doing wrong. 

In my 60l tank i originally began with 2 platys, to begin the cycling process back in february! i know bad advice, should have done fishless cycling, but i took the advice from my local petsmart store thinking who better to advise. I know better now thanks to reading this forum. All is generally well in the tank and the platys gave birth of which one survived? so now i have three all females, all seem happy. 

However, i have never had any nitrate or nitrite readings in the tank ever! i want to add some other fish but not without the tank not being cycled properly. The only readings i do get is for ammonia, which i do a one third water change and gravel clean every 2 weeks. It was suggested i fed them too much, so i now feed them every two days and make sure all flakes are eaten, and only feed for a minute a tiny pinch. I have been doing this for a month now and still i dont have any nitrite or nitrate levels? 

I use the API master dropper testing kit, PH levels are stable as well as temperature. There are no living plants in the tank, all plastic, with a gravel substrate. 

Can anybody shed any pearls of wisdom on my problem?

Thanks,

Velios.


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## BarbH

Velios said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm not sure what is going on with my 60l tank. I am a new fishkeeper, but i am not sure what it is that i am doing wrong.
> 
> In my 60l tank i originally began with 2 platys, to begin the cycling process back in february! i know bad advice, should have done fishless cycling, but i took the advice from my local petsmart store thinking who better to advise. I know better now thanks to reading this forum. All is generally well in the tank and the platys gave birth of which one survived? so now i have three all females, all seem happy.
> 
> However, i have never had any nitrate or nitrite readings in the tank ever! i want to add some other fish but not without the tank not being cycled properly. The only readings i do get is for ammonia, which i do a one third water change and gravel clean every 2 weeks. It was suggested i fed them too much, so i now feed them every two days and make sure all flakes are eaten, and only feed for a minute a tiny pinch. I have been doing this for a month now and still i dont have any nitrite or nitrate levels?
> 
> I use the API master dropper testing kit, PH levels are stable as well as temperature. There are no living plants in the tank, all plastic, with a gravel substrate.
> 
> Can anybody shed any pearls of wisdom on my problem?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Velios.


Hello and welcome to TFK :-D
A few questions, are you using tap water for your tank? What type of filter do you have on it and what is your maintenence shedule like for the filter? Are you using any type of chemicals in the tank other than a water conditioner? If you have not read the following article it would be good to check outhttp://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/#post757735 Also with the nitrate regent bottle 2 you want to shake it for two minutes, for it to be more accurate instead of the 30 seconds that is said in the directions.


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## Velios

BarbH said:


> Hello and welcome to TFK :-D
> A few questions, are you using tap water for your tank? What type of filter do you have on it and what is your maintenence shedule like for the filter? Are you using any type of chemicals in the tank other than a water conditioner? If you have not read the following article it would be good to check outhttp://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/#post757735 Also with the nitrate regent bottle 2 you want to shake it for two minutes, for it to be more accurate instead of the 30 seconds that is said in the directions.


Hello, and thank you. 

I use tap water for my tank, the filter i use came with the tank i purchased which is a Juwel Bioflow Mini. This is a link to the kit i bought. 

Juwel Korall 60 Tropical Aquarium

I have just cleaned the filter once in June, it seemed fairly clean at the time. i'm not using any chemicals in the water apart from the conditioner, i used tetra safestart when i first got the tank in feb/march. not since then. I have tried the bottle after 2 minutes just now and i have the same reading.


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## BarbH

Velios said:


> Hello, and thank you.
> 
> I use tap water for my tank, the filter i use came with the tank i purchased which is a Juwel Bioflow Mini. This is a link to the kit i bought.
> 
> Juwel Korall 60 Tropical Aquarium
> 
> I have just cleaned the filter once in June, it seemed fairly clean at the time. i'm not using any chemicals in the water apart from the conditioner, i used tetra safestart when i first got the tank in feb/march. not since then. I have tried the bottle after 2 minutes just now and i have the same reading.


I am not sure, with using tetra safestart I would have expected that you would already be seeing nitrate readings. I have used this product twice myself in two of my tanks that I needed to get going quickly. On the last tank that I used this I was already getting nitrate readings of 5ppm after 5 days. From what I have read on additional information on the product they do say that it can take two weeks for it to help cycle the tank. Some people have had good results with this product while others have not. Hopefully someone else will have some ideas of why your tank is not cycling :dunno:


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## Byron

I would suspect it is cycled. SafeStart is 100% live bacteria and very effective at establishing the nitrifying bacteria colony.

While live plants usually mean no nitrates or very low nitrates, it is also possible in non-planted tanks if the bioload is very low, as it is here. Two/three fish in 60 litres/15 gallons is not much. Algae in the tank will also consume ammonia/ammonium so less nitrates. And sparingly feeding the fish is likely not adding much from that source. There may also be denitrifying bacteria in the substrate and/or the filter, especially if it was only cleaned once since February, and these use nitrate.

Which water conditioner are you using? And, what is the pH in the tank, and the temperature? All these are related of course.

Byron.


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## Velios

Byron said:


> I would suspect it is cycled. SafeStart is 100% live bacteria and very effective at establishing the nitrifying bacteria colony.
> 
> While live plants usually mean no nitrates or very low nitrates, it is also possible in non-planted tanks if the bioload is very low, as it is here. Two/three fish in 60 litres/15 gallons is not much. Algae in the tank will also consume ammonia/ammonium so less nitrates. And sparingly feeding the fish is likely not adding much from that source. There may also be denitrifying bacteria in the substrate and/or the filter, especially if it was only cleaned once since February, and these use nitrate.
> 
> Which water conditioner are you using? And, what is the pH in the tank, and the temperature? All these are related of course.
> 
> Byron.


Hi Byron, 

I am using Tetra Aquasafe, The pH in the tank is about 8, and the temperature is 70 degress fahrenheit. 

Does that give a clue?

Thanks,.


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## Byron

Velios said:


> Hi Byron,
> 
> I am using Tetra Aquasafe, The pH in the tank is about 8, and the temperature is 70 degress fahrenheit.
> 
> Does that give a clue?
> 
> Thanks,.


This doesn't change my previous suggestions. I was just curious. Some water conditoner may interact differently, I doubt Tetra AS does.

If you read my article that Barb linked earlier you will have come across the part that mentions optimal pH and temperature for nitrifying bacteria, and your pH is spot on and the temp is a bit under but not enough to be a problem. Not that it is a problem, the point being that with near-optimal conditions bacteria get going much faster. I still say the tank is cycled.


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## KendraMc

Velios said:


> The only readings i do get is for ammonia, which i do a one third water change and gravel clean every 2 weeks.


do you mean that you are getting ammonia still? how much? because that is the only thing that would make me doubt your tank is actually cycled.


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## BarbH

Like Byron said the tank may actually be cycled. Have you checked your tap water source for any levels of ammonia present there?


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## Velios

KendraMc said:


> do you mean that you are getting ammonia still? how much? because that is the only thing that would make me doubt your tank is actually cycled.


I am getting ammonia readings, usually it gets to about 1.0 before i change the water sometimes it has been at 2.0 ppm.


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## KendraMc

Velios said:


> I am getting ammonia readings, usually it gets to about 1.0 before i change the water sometimes it has been at 2.0 ppm.


have you tested your water supply? does that have ammonia in it too?


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## Velios

BarbH said:


> Like Byron said the tank may actually be cycled. Have you checked your tap water source for any levels of ammonia present there?


I have done a PH and a ammonia test on the tap water and PH is at 8.0 after treated with water conditioner, PH is much higher and the test is purple straight from the tank! at 8.0 it is level with the tank water. 

ammonia readings are zero from the tap and from the treated water. 

I do leave the treated water for about a day or two in my living room before i add to the tank, rather than straight away. I doubt this has anything to do with anything does it? i do this just to make sure the water is treated thoroughly and the temperature is at least room temp before i add to tank.


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## KendraMc

Velios said:


> I have done a PH and a ammonia test on the tap water and PH is at 8.0 after treated with water conditioner, PH is much higher and the test is purple straight from the tank! at 8.0 it is level with the tank water.
> 
> ammonia readings are zero from the tap and from the treated water.
> 
> I do leave the treated water for about a day or two in my living room before i add to the tank, rather than straight away. I doubt this has anything to do with anything does it? i do this just to make sure the water is treated thoroughly and the temperature is at least room temp before i add to tank.


i can't see how leaving it out would affect the levels. it is kind of strange that your tank still has ammonia. since your water source doesn't have any, i would be rather concerned that you tank isn't cycling for some reason. i have no idea why and no idea what to do about it, but it does seem strange. 

as for the high pH, that can depend on where you are. i was getting 8.4 out of the tap before i changed source.


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## Byron

I had missed the constant ammonia reading previously, my apology. Something is odd here. I've reviewed the thread again.

When you cleaned the filter, did you just rinse it, in tap water or tank water? Or replace anything? I had a look at your earlier link but can't find info on what the filter media actually is, other than sponge. Is there any sort of chemical/carbon/material?

Water changes should be every week in normal circumstances, 40-50% of the tank. And vacuum the substrate a bit at each.

Live plants would help all of this, from assimilating lots of ammonia. Any chance of getting some live plants?

Are you only feeding alternate days--want to make sure I read that correctly?

Nothing but Tetra AquaSafe is going in the tank. With this conditioner you don't need to let the water sit. While that is not causing this [unless something is getting in to the water...] there is no need. Fresh tap water is fine, just squirt in the conditioner, it acts immediately to detoxify chlorine/chloramine [I assume this is AquaSafe Plus].

On the pH, let a glass of tap water (with nothing in it, no conditioner, etc) sit overnight and then test it. Depending upon the amount of dissolved CO2 in the tap water, it will dissipate out and the pH reading may be higher. CO2 lowers pH by adding carbonic acid to the water.


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## Velios

Byron said:


> I had missed the constant ammonia reading previously, my apology. Something is odd here. I've reviewed the thread again.
> 
> When you cleaned the filter, did you just rinse it, in tap water or tank water? Or replace anything? I had a look at your earlier link but can't find info on what the filter media actually is, other than sponge. Is there any sort of chemical/carbon/material?
> 
> Water changes should be every week in normal circumstances, 40-50% of the tank. And vacuum the substrate a bit at each.
> 
> Live plants would help all of this, from assimilating lots of ammonia. Any chance of getting some live plants?
> 
> Are you only feeding alternate days--want to make sure I read that correctly?
> 
> Nothing but Tetra AquaSafe is going in the tank. With this conditioner you don't need to let the water sit. While that is not causing this [unless something is getting in to the water...] there is no need. Fresh tap water is fine, just squirt in the conditioner, it acts immediately to detoxify chlorine/chloramine [I assume this is AquaSafe Plus].
> 
> On the pH, let a glass of tap water (with nothing in it, no conditioner, etc) sit overnight and then test it. Depending upon the amount of dissolved CO2 in the tap water, it will dissipate out and the pH reading may be higher. CO2 lowers pH by adding carbonic acid to the water.


When i cleaned the filter i just rinsed it in the tank water , it is just a sponge filter, no other materials. 
I can start changing the water every week, i didnt previously as all levels were fine just ammonia. I vaccum the substrate but only partially. i.e. a third at a time. I confirm i only feed alternate days. It is aquasafe plus. 

I will try the tap water ph test tonight. Thanks again.


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## Velios

Tested the ph and it is irtually the same at 7.8. 

Not sure what i should do if the tank isnt cycled, really want to add say 5 neon tetra.


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## KendraMc

i don't know what other, more experienced people think, but i believe there are filter media out there that are supposed to reduce ammonia. have you looked into anything like that?


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## Byron

I am puzzled as to where the ammonia at such high levels (1 and 2 ppm) is coming from. I know initially using biological supplements can cause ammonia, I don't know if SafeStart is one that does, but that should not be continuing. It's been nearly 6 months. Can you take some tank water to a fish store for ammonia testing? That would at least confirm it or not, just in case something is wrong with the test kit.

Want to ensure I am understanding the pH now; it is 7.8 out of the tap and 7.8 in the tank, correct?


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## BarbH

With tetra safe start there will be ammonia readings in the tank while it is establishing. On another forum when I started keeping fish back in May I came across an article where one of the members sent in a list of questions to Tetra on the product, and the posted the reply from tetra on the site. If anyone is interested in reading it, with a little bit of searching I should be able to find it again. From the company they do say that there will be the presence of ammonia which the bacteria in the bottle needs to live off of while it establishes itself in the tank. They say that it can take up to two weeks with this product for it to do its thing, and say not to do any water changes during that time. I have now used this product twice in two of my tanks to help jumpstart my cycle. Within a few days on both tanks I was getting reading on ammonia and nitrates, eventually with readings on nitrites and eventually 0 on ammonia and nitrites with reading on nitrates. The first time I used the product I did not do any water changes for the 2 week period, this time I have taken a different approach and have been doing regular water changes, still seeing a similar trend but numbers have been staying lower. If anyone wants any more details let me know. 

With the teta aquasafe I noticed that they said it has seaweed extracts in it, I am wondering if this may have any effect? Have you tried using a different water conditioner, something like prime, which will detoxify ammonia and nitrites for awhile, or another good quaility water conditioner. I am wondering if using a conditioner that is suppose to promote the benificial bacteria in the tank is contributing to the ammonia problem that you are having.


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## Velios

BarbH said:


> With tetra safe start there will be ammonia readings in the tank while it is establishing. On another forum when I started keeping fish back in May I came across an article where one of the members sent in a list of questions to Tetra on the product, and the posted the reply from tetra on the site. If anyone is interested in reading it, with a little bit of searching I should be able to find it again. From the company they do say that there will be the presence of ammonia which the bacteria in the bottle needs to live off of while it establishes itself in the tank. They say that it can take up to two weeks with this product for it to do its thing, and say not to do any water changes during that time. I have now used this product twice in two of my tanks to help jumpstart my cycle. Within a few days on both tanks I was getting reading on ammonia and nitrates, eventually with readings on nitrites and eventually 0 on ammonia and nitrites with reading on nitrates. The first time I used the product I did not do any water changes for the 2 week period, this time I have taken a different approach and have been doing regular water changes, still seeing a similar trend but numbers have been staying lower. If anyone wants any more details let me know.
> 
> With the teta aquasafe I noticed that they said it has seaweed extracts in it, I am wondering if this may have any effect? Have you tried using a different water conditioner, something like prime, which will detoxify ammonia and nitrites for awhile, or another good quaility water conditioner. I am wondering if using a conditioner that is suppose to promote the benificial bacteria in the tank is contributing to the ammonia problem that you are having.


I have now changed to api water conditioner 

Tap Water Conditioner? - API

I'll monitor this to see how i get on.


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## BarbH

Would be interested to know how it works.


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