# fish missing bottom lip now



## rsheets (Oct 25, 2009)

Last night I made a PH adjustment and after a few hours I noticed a Lyre tail guppy scrapeing his body on the rocks. This morning he has no bottom lip and is looking like he will die. Also, another lyretail has a red spot on top of his head and is not very active, hiding, and swimming very slowly. Also, a red fancy guppy looks to have a white bottom lip and I'm thinking it may be the same "stuff" the other guppy has with no bottom lip. What could this be? How can I treat? I moved them out of the tank and put them in a container w/ some ich treatment for now. Not sure if that's going to help, I'm pretty sure it's not ich but it may be some other thing that tthe ich treatment can cure. Just don't know. The fish have only been in my tank 2 days, and they are the first inhabitants in my new tank. Got them from Petsmart. Help!!


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## rsheets (Oct 25, 2009)

Ok just read the sticky:

1. What is the size of your tank?
150 gal

2. What are your water parameters? State the brand of test kit used.
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate All 0. ph 7.6 temp 79

3. Is your aquarium set up freshwater or brackish water?
fresh
4. How long the aquarium has been set up?
a week
5. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?
7 guppys, 2 days
6. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?
first batch
7. What temperature is the tank water currently?
79
8. Are there live plants in the aquarium?
no
9. What filter are you using? State brand, maintenance routine and power capacity.
aqua pro wet dry sump 1800 gph pump
10. Any other equipment used (aside from heater and filter which are two very important components of the tank)?

11. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? What is your lighting schedule (assuming you do not rely on sunlight for our viewing pleasure)?
no, no real schedule for now
12. When did you perform your last water change and how much water was changed? How often do you change your water? Do you vacuum the substrate?
none yet
13. What foods do you provide your fish? What is the feeding schedule?
tetra flakes
14. What unusual signs have you observed in your fish?
already stated
15. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? If so, what treatments did you use? State your reasons for planning ahead of proper diagnosis. 
no


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

A couple things strike me, First it is possible that fish were sick when introduced to the tank. I would not spend the money to treat them but rather find a different source for future fish if possible.
I am also suggesting that pH adjusting is not necessary. Unless your pH is below 6.0 or above 8.0 most fish will be fine. I am also thinking that the ammonia you used that caused suds to appear contained surfactants (detergent) and residue from this is still in the tank. Will also be in filter and hoses ,along with substrate and wood. I would hold off adding anymore fish, and remove decorations along with wood and soak them in bleach and water solution for a day and let dry completely. I would remove all filter material and toss it. I would rinse the filter compartment and hoses numerous times with bleach and water solution and then let all items soaked in the solution of bleach and water dry for 24 hours. I would then perform daily or every other day water changes with no filter running for a week. I would then place the filter back in operation with some fresh activated carbon and let the filter run for threeto four days with no fish. I would then replace the carbon with new carbon, and run the tank for another three or four days. This may remove ,dilute,any detergent still in the tank. I would then try adding some more used filter material from a disease free existing tank and perhaps add four or five hardy ,small fish ,such as Danios,(not Giant Danios) and watch these fish for a week or two while feeding sparingly ,once each day. If after a week to ten days,fish are still active and show no sign of sickness,, I might feel safe in slowly stocking the tank with fish that will do well in the tapwater I used for water changes whatever the pH is.
If fish begin to exhibit signs of distress or other problems,Sores,flashing.darting about,, Then I fear I would drain the tank and remove the gravel and replace it withv another. I realize this ain't what you want to hear , but is what I would do. Some might call it cruel.. but you could also try another small group of small active fish and see if they fair any better. If similar problems arise.. I would consider all of the above. Hope you don't have to go through the above mentioned but felt you should have the info if needed. Good luck.


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## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

Necessity of pH adjusting should depend on the fish and proper administering of such.

"Ideal conditions Concept should supercede Adaptability Concept", IMHO.


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## rsheets (Oct 25, 2009)

Thanks so far 1077 and cerianthus. I tend to think that petsmart does not have very healthy fish and they may have came with the sickness and the slight PH adjustment may have set it off. But I didn't know if the mouth problem could be fixed or not. Would that be a parasite, fungus, etc? The other lyre tail died as well. The red one looks like it's doing a little better than this morning, but his lips still seem to be bigger than normal, as well as whiterthan I think it should be. The other fish seem to be doing very well so far, so I'm thinking that I did a pretty good job of getting the other stuff that was in the so called "pure" ammonia out of the tank. Man, that was pretty irritating! My tap PH is around 7.5 but after it goes though the filter system for a while it goes up to around 8. So, I think it's a little too high for tetras and some other kinds of fish I was wanting, so I think it would be good to give them ideal water conditions for a while and then very slowly convert them to live in a higher ph down the road.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Could very well have been sick fish from the outset. It is quite difficult to properly diagnose ailmments for even experts ,,which I am not. I am not a fan of meciating fish for that reason. Too many problems with sick fish share similar symptoms. I have found that water quality prevents the need for medications in large part.
I would submit that IF the ammonia you used contained surfactants or detergents,, that this is very, very, very, difficult to remove from the tank especially if it was used on a daily basis for any length of time. Hence, my earlier suggestions.
Do yourself a favor and set up quarantine tank for all new fish before placing them in your 150 gal. This too will greatly negate the need and expense of treating your large tank for sick fish. Much easier,and cheaper to treat and perform water changes on a small quarantine tank. Good Luck.


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## rsheets (Oct 25, 2009)

Yea, I agree with that too.
Red died this morning. I took the first lyretail that died back and got a new one. So far so good with everything else. Guess I'll change out the red one and the other lyre tail tomorrow. I have a trace amount of ammonia showing up on the scale. It is still under the .25 mark but I can still see that it has a little color to it. So... I guess it has started. I'll see how high it goes and then how fast it goes down along with the nitrites. I will bring over some filter media from my other tank if it goes up any higher. That should help.
If I have any more problems with fish dieing then, I'll have to go through all that work of cleaning the tank real good to get out anything that could still be in there from the "pure" ammonia. I'm also going to try and get in touch with the company that made the ammonia and see if and what is in the mixture. That'll be helpful to know where to go from there.


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## rsheets (Oct 25, 2009)

No ammonia today! Got new replacements and everything is doing real good. Feel sorry for the females I added today. The males were "deprived" I guess.


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## rsheets (Oct 25, 2009)

My fish are doing real good!! So happy!!


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

Happy to hear that!


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## rsheets (Oct 25, 2009)

spoke too soon


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