# Sand Vs. Gravel



## Godmadefish

I really like the way sand looks, and I think my fish would like it. I know its supposed to be hard to clean, and that I would have to get a better filter. What are the pros and cons of using sand or the very fine sand-like gravel? What exactly do you have to do for maintainence?


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## Lupin

*Sand*
*Pros:*
1. Much easier to clean as the wastes are lighter than sand.
2. Makes it easier for most fish and invertebrates to burrow around.
3. Friendly to fish with delicate barbels.

*Cons:*
1. If I change my mind on rescaping tanks, sand is a pain to remove.
2. Becomes compact easily and becomes potentially dangerous if it binds and forms anaerobic pockets. For this reason, you need to stir it r rely on your trumpet snails to do the job for you.
3. Can damage powerheads if the powerheads are turned on while the sand has not settled completely yet.

*Gravel*
*Pros:*
1. Allows oxygen to penetrate through plant roots much better.
2. Easier to remove if you change mind rescaping the tank.
3. Much easier to rinse around unlike sand before setting it up.

*Cons:*
1. Pain to vacuum around as the wastes are trapped.
2. Most fish choke on gravel easily although this rarely happens.


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## Christople

I have 'natural sand' as my lfs calls it and to clean it i drag the syphon very close to the sand and suck up the poop... the sand is a bit to big so I am good in that sense but it is still sand...the down side is sand condenses... I love the look of sand


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## CoffeeMan

Sand is way easier to take care of than gravel, and IMO it looks alot better. Get yourself some trumpet snails to keep it aerated and just hold your vacuum about 1/4 inch above it when cleaning up fish waste.


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## Christople

what type of water do those trumpet snails like... I might get some


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## Lupin

Christople said:


> what type of water do those trumpet snails like... I might get some


Hard and alkaline. They require high levels of calcium to keep their shells from pitting.


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## Christople

ok well that is a no... i have neutral water and soft water sooooo


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## Byron

Christople said:


> ok well that is a no... i have neutral water and soft water sooooo


Malaysian Trumpet snail is about the only aquarium snail that will do just fine in very soft and acidic water. I have near zero hardness and a pH of 5-6 in all my tanks and this snail thrives. I have hundreds, and they grow large, almost 1 inch--except in the loach tank;-).

My acute bladder snails are doing better than I would have thought, although they tend to favour some hardness. For years i could not keep them, but now i have a sizeable number in a couple of taqnks where the water is around 6.8-7 pH (still <1 GH).


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## Christople

in november i left a 7-day feeder and it turn some sand black... if I up turn the sand the color will go normal but it leaves a blacksh residue on rocks and thinks I put in it


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## Byron

Christople said:


> in november i left a 7-day feeder and it turn some sand black... if I up turn the sand the color will go normal but it leaves a blacksh residue on rocks and thinks I put in it


*Carefully* remove the sand with the black (siphon it out with a wide diameter tube) and once it is *out* of the aquarium, try washing it. Be prepared to discard it.


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## Christople

okay there is barely any left because I already did that... It made me so angry that top fins product would do that... they should specify that it would do that or test it or smoeething to prevent it


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## Byron

Christople said:


> okay there is barely any left because I already did that... It made me so angry that top fins product would do that... they should specify that it would do that or test it or smoeething to prevent it


I suspect it would happen with any chunk of food. What isn't eaten will soon decompose. I would not recomend food blocks if you are to be away; if the fish are healthy, they can go for more than a week without food. Or if longer, perhaps someone with experience can feed them even only a couple times a week.


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## Christople

okay


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## Godmadefish

How do live plants do in sand usually? Or does it just depend?


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## Christople

depends


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## SinCrisis

Live plants will do fine in sand as long as the sand is well turned or is a nutrient rich substrate. If the sand compacts down, the flow of nutrient rich water to the roots will be restricted so they will not do well unless the nutrients are already there.

As Byron said, any long term feeders in the tank will turn the substrate black as the food rots. I have tried many over the years and they have never worked out well. The best weekend feeders are the electronic ones with anti-moisture vents for long vacations.

MTS will survive anywhere. My water used to be very soft and they still bred like crazy. Their shells wont be as beautiful in softer water since the ends will dissolve as they grow, so stubby snail shells, but they will still do fine.


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## Skooter

I use a very fine sugar grain sized white sand. Its expensive but all my fish/shrimp/ plants thrive.The trick to cleaning it is to take the head off of the vacuum and hold the hose behind a few fingers and go over were your fingers have stirred up the sand. Once the bucket is full you can empty it and if your good you can keep any sand that may have been sucked in on the bottom of the bucket. After a good 30% water change in a 55gl tank I usually get 2 to 5 cups of sand to put back which is easy.This is a weekly process so like anything you enjoy doing its fun and NOT work


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## Mikaila31

I don't like most store sands because they look too unnatural IMO. Stuff off the ground as worked fine for me.


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## Christople

I just mixed ada with natural sand and love the look.


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## PaperclipGirl

I got a bag of black sand and white sand at my local hardware store. It was about $6 for 100lb bag. I research several brands to make sure they were aquarium safe before I bought them and before I put them in my new tank.


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## LasColinasCichlids

*Sand*



When I bought my 15g tank and took my first jump into sand as my substrate I paid $25 (well, my husband paid for it) for the naturals brand natural colored sand at petsmart. I LOVE the look of it, and it seemed as though the maintenance on the 15g was so much easier than that of my older gravel substrate 29g tank. So I eventually decided to do the change and switch the 29g tank from gravel to sand and plant it. Instead of expensive sand, i went to Walmart and got a 50lbs bag of "natural play sand" for $2.97! 

I love the look of the sand, my plants LOVE the sand. For moving the sand around in the 29g I have about a dozen trumpet snails, and for the same purpose in my 15g I have 10 black kuhli loaches.

Sand has made my life easier, and my tanks look so much nicer. My bottom dwellers and plants appreciate the sand. My tanks seem healthier with sand verses gravel, as debris doesnt hide in my sand like it can in gravel. 

When I need to vacuum the bottom of the tank, I use my old gravel vac and I actually put it right up and over the sand, occasionally even pushing the vac 1/4" into the sand, to get debris, food, and what not up...and I never have but maybe a total of a 1/2 of a teaspoon of sand in the bucket after I do a 30% water change with the gravel vac. (That is with the 29g tank, I approach the 15 gallon differently because it is more heavily planted and the loaches are very active and curious...plus my betta is overly friendly, lol.)

Just wanted to add my 2 cents.
As for plants, I have had the best luck using stem plants (wisteria, moneywort, brazillian pennywort), planted in the sand, as their roots are generally on their stems. I do have other rooted plants that seem to do wonderful in the sand (amazon swords, java ferns, melon sword, corkscrew sword, dwarf SAG, crypt wendtii). The only plants I have had that use to be in the gravel in the 29g are crypt wendtii, and they are now in the sand in the 15g and are doing wonderfully!!!


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## Godmadefish

What has been your experience with sand and filtration? Do you need a special filtration system?


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## Christople

for under ground or HOB of canister... I have a canister and it does fine.


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## Godmadefish

Well, I have an aquaclear, and someone told me sand just destroys over the back filters...


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## Godmadefish

So I was just wondering if this was true and I'd have to buy a whole new filter...


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## MetalArm3

Don't forget to answer GodMadeFish's question, don't want to bump him. 

From a financial stand point, It is smarter to buy a 100lb bag of sand from Menards then a 20lb bag from petsmart. However the bags of sand you can buy from your LFS offers nutrient enriched sand. Is there a way to make the 100lb bags of Menards sand nutrient enriched and still save money while obtaining the same beneficial effect?


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## DKRST

I use a HOB and it's fine with sand, just let the sand settle overnight before turning it on. I have black sand in a 10 gallon and love it. Once it settles, it doesn't really ever "stir up" like you think it might. My tank was cloudy about 8 hours and then crystal-clear. Very easy to plant in, much easier than the ecocomplete in my other tank. My MTS snails love it as do my plecos. If you don't want a HOB, you can eventually upgrade to a canister. Either way, the trick is to not let sand get to the impeller (clogs it and scores the plastic housing or tears up the impeller).

I confess to buying a 20lb bag of the black sand from Petsmart, it was a convenience thing and I really like the way black sets off the plants and fish. Don't care for the white/"natural" color sand personally.


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## Skooter

I also use 2 hob's on my 55gl tank..Honestly never had a problem but I am also preventative. I turn them off during water changes or any tank keeping and I do NOT turn them on till my water change is done and the sand is calm and if you vacuum fill like I do the sand never get out of control. I could see how they could get ruined by not using common sense so other that go for it. I'm sure there are some large fish that like to dig or stir up the sand so if you have a large Pleco or something that enjoys up rooting plants then there's a chance of sand getting worked into your filter and that would be bad.


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## SinCrisis

Or just toss a prefilter sponge onto the intake of the HOB and that should prevent any sand from getting in as well if you are worried about it.


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## Christople

yeah


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## LasColinasCichlids

I have HOBs on both of my sand/planted tanks, no issues at all with filter use with sand. 

On my 29g I have the AquaClear 50 and the Marineland Penguin 150B and havent had any issues with them regarding the sand. I too however, turn off the filters for water changes, but not because of the sand, just easier for me so I dont have to pay attention to if my water gets too low and makes the filters unable to pull water. 

On my 15g I have a TopFin 20, and have no issues with it and the sand either. I do NOT turn that filter off during water changes since the intake goes below mid-level in the tank, and I wouldnt do anything near or more than a 50% water change on it, so I have no worries.

I confess as well to buying the $25 bag of "Super Naturals" sand at Petsmart. I had never done sand before at that point, was in a hurry to set up my new tank (15g), and well, could kick myself for overpaying!! I had a rather frustrating experience with that sand getting water clear, an experience I did NOT have when I later switched my 29g to sand using $2.97 playsand from walmart. Both my sand is natural colored, but when I get around to setting my 5g back up for a single dwarf puffer, I plan on doing black sand. 

But, yeah, so that's my experience and thoughts on it.


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## SinCrisis

The only problem with sand and filters is that loose sand gets into the impellers and gets caught in impeller and causes damage to the motor, possibly frying it or grinding down the impeller. This is easily avoided as long as 

1) the intake is ~1inch or so above the surface of the sand. 
2) the substrate is settled when the filter is turned on, filter turned off during times when substrate may be disturbed
3) optional use of a pre-filter sponge will stop sand from getting into the intake.

Additional tips:
1) sand usually comes with much more dust than other larger substrates, the finer the sand, the lighter it is and the more likely they will produce large amounts of dust and potential for getting sucked into the filter. Even after hours of rinsing, most people will find a good amount of dust still with their sand. When you clean the HOB, you can detatch most motors from the housing and rinse it while going over with a small brush to prevent dust buildup that can damage the motor.

2) try and buy heavier sand. In terms of keeping filters in good healthy, sand that stays down is better for the filter. There are different densities for sand so some will stir up quickly and cloud the water while others will get stirred up and settle quickly. If the package is small and heavy, you might be getting less sand for coverage but it will be less easy to stir up.

3) use of water clarifiers. The super naturals, and some other brands include clarifying liquid with their sand. If you do NOT have fish in the tank, this can be used. It will bind to dust particles making them "stick" together and get caught by your filter. This is good for clearing up the leftover dust from the sand without risking damage to the filter. After the water clears, rinse out the filter media and give the filter a quick clean with a brush. Do not do this if you have fish already in the tank, there is a possibility the clarifying liquid may bind to the gills of the fish causing some respiratory problems in the future.


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## DKRST

SinCrisis said:


> 3) optional use of a pre-filter sponge will stop sand from getting into the intake.


An excellent suggestion that also prevents plant parts from clogging the intake (in a planted tank), keeps fry from being "filtered" and adds to the biological filtration capacity of the tank!


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## Christople

yepp


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## Lupin

Please add that undergravel filters are absolutely incompatible with sand. It'll simply clog the plates and encourage more anaerobic spots which when disturbed, can potentially poison and kill your fish especially when the level of hydrogen sulfide produced is intolerably high for your fish.


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## LasColinasCichlids

Good point, Lupin, always good to get your input! Havent seen you around TFK much lately, hope all is well. 

I would like to add that although I have limited experience with UGFs, I hear they arent always the best option when having a planted tank.


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## TwinDad

Does anybody have experience with Corys and either playsand or Pool Filter sand? I'm going to be getting a 55 gallon tonight and taking a few months to build it up but wanted to start gathering information on Corys (and other substrate fish) and their compatibility with sands.

@LasColinas

Somewhere, might even be here I've seen an article written about UGF myths and them not being good with plants. I thought in the end I read that they are find for plants, just not the best solution.


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## SinCrisis

corys love sand, its better for them and tehir barbels. However, they will play in it and kick it up, risky for your filter without a prefilter foam. Playsand is better because it is less course than filter sand, but i think the difference is negligible.


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## Byron

TwinDad said:


> Does anybody have experience with Corys and either playsand or Pool Filter sand? I'm going to be getting a 55 gallon tonight and taking a few months to build it up but wanted to start gathering information on Corys (and other substrate fish) and their compatibility with sands.
> 
> @LasColinas
> 
> Somewhere, might even be here I've seen an article written about UGF myths and them not being good with plants. I thought in the end I read that they are find for plants, just not the best solution.


I have corys in tanks with fine gravel and in tanks with playsand. In 20 years, the fine gravel has never been an issue, though an experienced aquarist did recently tell me that the dwarf species do need sand, so mine are now over sand. The "average" species have gravel. My dwarf loaches (two species) have had fine gravel but last week were moved to the sand tank. My medium loaches are over fine gravel. Playsand seems fine. Pool filter sand might be rougher; if so, that should be avoided.

As for UG filters and plants. While not the best it will work. Sand cannot be used with UG however, as Lupin correctly noted. The problem with UG and plants is the water movement through the substrate. While it is perfectly natural in all natural habitats where plants grow submersed that the water is pulled down into the substrate and then pushed back up through the substrate, due to the warming/cooling effect, this cannot be rapid, and the UG when using powerheads is too fast. The "old" UG with airstones worked better from this aspect. Now, having said that, one can grow plants in tanks with UG filter and powerheads. It is just not the best way to go, according to Karen Randall, Rhonda Wilson, Scott Hieber, and any other planted tank authority you can find.


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## DKRST

Pool filter sand is rather sharp, to prevent caking and channelization in a pool filter. Based on working with both, the play sand is easier on the skin (at least human skin).


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## LasColinasCichlids

I have cories on playsand, also have loaches (for the moment) on sand. I use to have gravel. 
I personally think that any bottom dweller appreciates sand much more than any other substrate. 
Although there is a lot of options for sand substrates, I personally wouldnt use pool filter sand. I have, as mentioned, play sand in one, and overpriced "aquarium" sand in the other. (I like the end result better with the overpriced stuff, but the playsand is easier to deal with when cleaning and setting up the tank, IMO.)


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## TwinDad

Thanks. I built a 20 gallon with play sand and was going to move my 6 julli cories to the play sand with the 55 gallon being either playsand or aquarium sand.

I'll rule out Pool Filter Sand for the COries. I thought I had seen posts about a few people who had cories with eroded barbels on cories.


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## Godmadefish

Thanks everyone so much for the input, its so very helpful! I actually already have a pre-filter sponge. Its kind've a pain sometimes, but I lost a mystery snail to my filter intake and decided something had to be done. I have a dojo loach who will absolutely love sand, and I can't wait to put it in there. Again, thanks so much.


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