# Just Curious......



## diablo13

In my 10 gallon, after it's current use is done, I was considering turning it into a Nano-Reef tank. Maybe FOWLR, i don't know. It already has a 50w heater and a 90 GPH internal filter, a tetrawhisper 10i. I know it needs a Protein Skimmer and maybe a 100GPH powerhead. It's using freshwater right Now, I was going to recycle it with saltwater. My question, what fish could go in here? This isn't necisary, but I'd prefer fish that live 2-3+ years. Thanks for reading!


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## onefish2fish

a pair of clowns or a goby and a pistol shrimp are the more common 10 gallon choices. not many fish to choose from with a small tank, after putting in live rock your going to end up with less then 10 gallons with displacement too. 

i suggest if your going to use that filter to run it empty ( for flow ) or with carbon only. if proper feeding is done with water changes when needed you shouldnt need a skimmer on this tank. 

i have known a few clowns to be 10+ years ( and im sure some people have had some longer ) remember this is a long term hobby :wink:


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## diablo13

I know saltwater is much longer term than freshwater, unless you get like Oscars or Something. I like Neon Gobies, but the short lifespan sorta turns me off for them. I like Clownfish, but don't they need bigger tanks? Like 20-29 gallons? For this I was going to do like weekly or biweekly waterchanges, right now I vacum it until waste is gone, so like 30-50%. Tetrawhisper uses Bio-Bags, with activated carbon. I assume this is OK? And the powerhead, is that recomended for such a small tank? Sorry for the question spam 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

percs or occys would be fine by themselves in a 10 gallon. i would put maroons in a 20-30 gallon. 

30-50% is too large, i would change out a gallon a week if possible, which would be 10%. depending your nitrates this may need to be increased but small changes are best. smaller tanks are harder to maintain due to keeping them stable. speaking of, fresh RO/DI water is needed to top off daily water evaportion. ( salt doesnt evaporate ) 

i think i would use a filter media bag filled with carbon and placed into the filter if using a hang on filter. filter cartridges collect debris and detritus and over time allow them to break down into excess nutrients.. you do not want this on a saltwater tank, as to why i suggested running the filter empty.. just for its water flow. you can get away with filter cartridges ( even using them short term for water polishing ) but they need FREQUENT cleaning, as in every few days.

10x turn over for water flow for a FOWLR is a good start, you may even want more. the hydor k nano i believe is 425 gph and may make a better choice if your only using 1 powerhead. the idea is to have little ( or even better, no) dead spots or areas of no flow. you want the water constantly moving against your liverock.


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## diablo13

What exactly is RO/DI water? I've heard it before, but I'm not sure what it is. So, for water flow, I'll do empty filter and a 100GPH+ powerhead on the other side. So, either 1 Perc/ Occy or a Goby and Pistol Shrimp. What's a good species of Goby? Would the filter and Powerhead work well if they're both on they back? Or does one need to be on the front so both sides get current? If I go with the Goby and Shrimp I'll probably do just FOWLR, but if I do a Clown how much lightning do I need for Anenomes/Corals? And would Soft or Hard corals be better? Really sorry for Question Spam :S
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## onefish2fish

RO/DI water is purified tap water by using a RO/DI filter ( reverse osmosis de-ionized )
for a tank this size you can usually purchase this water at fish stores for about 50 cents per gallon. if you do the math, this will add up quickly and it may be wise to just shell out $200 or so for the unit from the start so you can make this water right from home. that choice is up to you. everyday water will evaporate from your tank and NEED to be replaced with plain old RO/DI water as salt wont evaporate. it may be a very slight ammount of water evaporating and may go un-noticed but this still needs to be done. the more water evaporating, the higher your salinity will rise. ( speaking of salinity, test this with a refractometer instead of less accurate hydrometers )

there are alot of gobies that would be a good choice. if you wish to pair one with a pistol shrimp, look at the watchman types. avoid catalina gobies as these are cooler water species. just to clarrify, do not mix 2 species of clowns.

the usual placement of powerheads is either side of the tank. in your case having the filter on one of the back corners and the powerhead on the opposite sides wall facing the filter would prob. be a good start. this may need to be adjusted as spots of little to no flow are found. the goal is to get good flow around your liverock without causing a huge sand storm. ( dont worry, 100 gph may seem like alot, but its actually not ) 

clowns do not need an anemone for their happiness. infact, they will "host" whatever it is they feel safe and comfort in, which can end up being anything in the tank. i dont think i would keep a nem in a 10 gallon as they will eventually get so large it will be just about all there is in the 10. nems need a reef enviroment, but again having a large nem in a 10 gallon will end up stinging all corals it touches due to size constraints. it is possible, but perhaps further down the road should be considered.
i suggest t5s, metal halides ( which in your case would overheat your tank ) LEDs or a combo of the 3. all types of lighting have their drawbacks. research is key.
soft corals over hard to start. mushrooms, zoanthids... are good first additions, AFTER researching their care. 
seems like your off to a good start but i suggest much more reading prior to any purchasing.


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## Reefing Madness

Saltwater Aquarium Fish for Marine Aquariums: Ocellaris Clownfish
Minimum suggested tank size for a OC Clownfish is 20g.
Reverse Osmosis with a Deionize Canister
Purified water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anemones need strong lighting. But on a 10g tank it won't take but a couple 24" T-5 HO lights for that.


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## diablo13

Ok, so 50 cents per gallon doesn't seem too bad. So that's 5$ to start, with 1-2 to top off, and 1 per week after that. What type of Watchman Goby? I wikipedia'd them and like 10 different kinds came up. So LED, hard corals....all sounds OK. Is the usual 5w per gallon OK?
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## diablo13

If any of you guys are still there, is there anything else I could have in a 10 gallon? I'm deciding between Brackish Bumblebee Gobies( well, they might be freshwater. I need to ask the employees). I'm liking Goby and Shrimp, but what if I go on vacation and people don't top it off every night? I could get someone to top it off, but No-One around here is really a fish fanatic. And would it survive if the power went of for a storm or something?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> If any of you guys are still there, is there anything else I could have in a 10 gallon? I'm deciding between Brackish Bumblebee Gobies( well, they might be freshwater. I need to ask the employees). I'm liking Goby and Shrimp, but what if I go on vacation and people don't top it off every night? I could get someone to top it off, but No-One around here is really a fish fanatic. And would it survive if the power went of for a storm or something?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 WOW. Its just like a fresh water tank. If the power went out, they would survive for a period of time. And the pick of which Goby is really a matter of choice for you. And as for the top off, how long are you going to be gone? I have always lowered my equipment into the water alittle more. Like the heaters and the powerheads, so as to not get stuck in the open.
And sorry I know nothing about Brackish Fish, but the Green Spoted Puffer, which can be turned to full marine.


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Ok, so 50 cents per gallon doesn't seem too bad. So that's 5$ to start, with 1-2 to top off, and 1 per week after that. What type of Watchman Goby? I wikipedia'd them and like 10 different kinds came up. So LED, hard corals....all sounds OK. Is the usual 5w per gallon OK?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 5w per gallon will do ya fine using LED's.


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## diablo13

Ok, so a 50w LED would be good.....and I was just worried about increased salinity. If I go on a true 1 week+ vacation, I'll get someone to top it off, but would it be fine for say a weekend?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Ok, so a 50w LED would be good.....and I was just worried about increased salinity. If I go on a true 1 week+ vacation, I'll get someone to top it off, but would it be fine for say a weekend?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yup, your good on both accounts.


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## diablo13

Thats! As I'm stockpiling info, I might as well keep going. If you don't mind, what do you think the easiest corals to care for are?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Thats! As I'm stockpiling info, I might as well keep going. If you don't mind, what do you think the easiest corals to care for are?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are going to be many opinions on this one, but in my experience you can keep LPS and Softies with no troubles. I have had trouble with SPS, but have since gotten my tank parameters in line and am going to try the easy ones again. Birds Nest for one. A few Staghorns. With enough light and superb water you should be able to keep SPS. The thing with those are you have to watch everything very closely.


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## diablo13

Thanks! Yknow, I just wanted to share, I've always liked Mandarin Dragonets, but knowing their care level I always just sorta daydreamed. So I was surfing the Internet and found this:Caring for a Mandarin Goby and I asked my LFS, apparently they feed them live Brine Shrimp, and they actually eat it 0.0 I know they would still need a steady supply of Copepods, Mysis Shrimp, and Cyclop-Eeze, but do you think this is even remotely possible?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Thanks! Yknow, I just wanted to share, I've always liked Mandarin Dragonets, but knowing their care level I always just sorta daydreamed. So I was surfing the Internet and found this:Caring for a Mandarin Goby and I asked my LFS, apparently they feed them live Brine Shrimp, and they actually eat it 0.0 I know they would still need a steady supply of Copepods, Mysis Shrimp, and Cyclop-Eeze, but do you think this is even remotely possible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yup. quite a few people have them. They usually just dose PODS into their tank. And there are a few that have "trained" them to eat mysis shrimp and other things. Some LFS sell PODS.


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## diablo13

Even in such a small tank? I still have a couple years to research, but that would be like a dream come true. The LFS employee just said they ate Frozen and Live Brine Shrimp, I asked if they really ate it, he said they'd eat the frozen if they were moving, and they liked the live. If I do end up buying one, I'll need an example first. I believe they had maybe 3-4 there, all in different tanks. And is it really true it's impossible for them to get Ick? Sorry for the question load....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Even in such a small tank? I still have a couple years to research, but that would be like a dream come true. The LFS employee just said they ate Frozen and Live Brine Shrimp, I asked if they really ate it, he said they'd eat the frozen if they were moving, and they liked the live. If I do end up buying one, I'll need an example first. I believe they had maybe 3-4 there, all in different tanks. And is it really true it's impossible for them to get Ick? Sorry for the question load....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 All fish can get Ich. Ich really is a disease that mostly get into the gills, you visually see it on the fish after the fact. As long as you can keep the PODS alive in the tank, which isn't very hard, you can keep them. They require alot of rockwork and such because of the PODS. If you've ever seen one, they dont' swim around fast at all, they more or less float and hop around looking for food.


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## diablo13

Yup, that's what they looked like at the store  they're beautiful, though. The 190$ would be worth it, XD. So would the 10 pounds of Live Rock be OK? Or do I need 15?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Yup, that's what they looked like at the store  they're beautiful, though. The 190$ would be worth it, XD. So would the 10 pounds of Live Rock be OK? Or do I need 15?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I'd use 15lbs, the more the better. But $190 for a Dragonette?? Or am I just reading wrong?


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## diablo13

No, 190$ to boost the tank up to saltwater. The fish is probably like 10 XD they actually don't seem very hard to take care of, as long as you have the correct food.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> No, 190$ to boost the tank up to saltwater. The fish is probably like 10 XD they actually don't seem very hard to take care of, as long as you have the correct food.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 They are like any other fish. Its getting them to eat once they are in your tank thats the trick. Some will, some won't. you never know.


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## diablo13

Yeah, you never know. These fish keep us guessing 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Hey, I'm trying to calculate the price, I'm up to 200$ without coral, but everything else included. Would a Dragonet hurt any corals? And is the tank too small for something like a starfish or maybe a scallop of some sort?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Hey, I'm trying to calculate the price, I'm up to 200$ without coral, but everything else included. Would a Dragonet hurt any corals? And is the tank too small for something like a starfish or maybe a scallop of some sort?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 No, the dragonette won't harm the corals. Star fish i believe are to big for a 10g tank. But, if you were to put one in, the Chocolate Chip and the Sand Sifter are not very big to start. A scallop, hmm, not really sure about that one. Why not I would guess, They are not very big and won't get very big (3"). Good question there. You;ll have to watch your water parameters because of the feeding you;ll have to administer.


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## diablo13

My LFS( both, actually) have scallops, one is VERY saltwater based, it does have fReshwater fish but a majority of it is dedicated to saltwater. That saltwater one has like 10 of the ones with blue insides, I don't know what they're called, but they're decent sized. My favorite LFS, mostly freshwater, but does carry Saltwater, where I went today, has 2 of those blue ones and 1 Flame Scallop. Are these OK scallops?
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edit: I just googled it, they were clams, not scallops. Too big, I'm guessing. I guess just corals it is.


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## dramaqueen

It sounds like you're off to a pretty good start, Diablo. Keep up the research and listen to these guys. They won't steer you wrong.


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## diablo13

Hey DQ! There's do much to learn @[email protected]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> My LFS( both, actually) have scallops, one is VERY saltwater based, it does have fReshwater fish but a majority of it is dedicated to saltwater. That saltwater one has like 10 of the ones with blue insides, I don't know what they're called, but they're decent sized. My favorite LFS, mostly freshwater, but does carry Saltwater, where I went today, has 2 of those blue ones and 1 Flame Scallop. Are these OK scallops?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> edit: I just googled it, they were clams, not scallops. Too big, I'm guessing. I guess just corals it is.


Flame Scallop have the red inside, I dont know what the blue ones are, but they sound like Crocea or Maxima clams. And those you could keep for a time, but they will outgrow the tank easily.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+529+1650&pcatid=1650
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+529+586&pcatid=586
They look like these?

Heres a Flame Scallop
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+522+559&pcatid=559

Electric Flame Scallop
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+522+1525&pcatid=1525


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## diablo13

They were Maxima Clams. The flame scallops look cool.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> They were Maxima Clams. The flame scallops look cool.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 You take a gander at how big those clams get? HUGE. :-D Then again, it takes forever to.


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## diablo13

They get about a foot long, no? And I know you said that Occy Clowns cannot be in a 10 gallon, I'm guessing the same applies to 1 Percula, too? I love Black and White Perculas.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> They get about a foot long, no? And I know you said that Occy Clowns cannot be in a 10 gallon, I'm guessing the same applies to 1 Percula, too? I love Black and White Perculas.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 The recommended size for those fish is 20g. I know of some who do keep them in 10g. But, if you do, only put one in. And I agree, the Black and White Percs are awesome.


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> They get about a foot long, no? And I know you said that Occy Clowns cannot be in a 10 gallon, I'm guessing the same applies to 1 Percula, too? I love Black and White Perculas.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 And, forgot to mention, in such a small tank, they would gobble up the calcium fast, you'd have to keep a good eye on that. The clams that is.


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## diablo13

I wouldn't do more than one. I know Clowns can get aggresive, Ill look into them more, so either Black Percula or Mandarin Dragonette with a Flame Scallop, hrmm....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dramaqueen

I like the black and white perculas, too.


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## diablo13

Emo Nemos rule  Reefing Madness, is 10 gallons considered cruel for Clownfish? Like, for Betta fish, 5 is considered good, 2.5 the minimum, and below that cruel. I know a 20 gallon would be like the 5, but would a Clown in a 10 gallon affect it's lifespan in any way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

a single clown is fine in a 10. except maroon clowns, they need a larger tank.

not in a 10 but a pair ive had for 3-4 years


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## diablo13

Daw, they're so cute  I just love Clownfish, aren't they pretty hardy, too? For a Marine Fish, I mean.
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## onefish2fish

hardy for a marine fish, you can say that, especially tank bred clowns but this doesnt mean they shouldnt be treated like any other fish.


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## diablo13

Yes, I just meant say while they're still delicate fish, they're not as delicate as other fish. By the way, I was looking what to feed them, I was thinking Frozen Mysis Shrimp, Live Brine Shrimp, Formula One Flakes, and New Life Spectrum Marine Fish 1mm pellets. Is this acceptable?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

sounds good with the food. maybe also grab something like selcon to use from time to time.


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## diablo13

Selcon? Is that a brand? Or like a type of creature?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

a brand to pre-soak food.


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## diablo13

Hmm, ok, I'll keep a lookout for it. I'm just wondering, since you keep clowns, what are their personalities like?


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## onefish2fish

fairly active, greedy eaters, the larger ( female ) will be dominant to the male, usually dont stray far from the spot they choose to "host" which isnt always an anemone.


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## diablo13

Aw, they sound just like me XD yknow, I've already said the other 2 saltwater fish I love, so I guess I should say the other....I love Fire Gobies. But they need a bigger tank then a 10 gallon 
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## onefish2fish

yes firefish need bigger then a 10 and a lid.


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## diablo13

So Clownfish it is  Are they personable, the clownfish? Or do they regard you as some random person?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Daw, they're so cute  I just love Clownfish, aren't they pretty hardy, too? For a Marine Fish, I mean.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yes, pretty easy to care for.


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## diablo13

After the intitial 250$....XD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Incoming Question: For Coral/Tank lighting, will Flourescent do? I can't find anything that isn't 60$ that isn't Flourescent or Incadcent
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dramaqueen

Can clowns be kept by themselves or do they do better in groups? Not trying to hijack your thread, Diablo. I'm just curious, as your thread title says. lol


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## diablo13

It's fine, I hijack enough threads as it is  Clowns can be kept alone, you can introduce a pair to a tank at the same Time and it will most likely be OK. Not sure about groups, though. Pairs, alone, need like 20-29 gallons, I think.....


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## dramaqueen

Thanks, Diablo.


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## diablo13

Why, do you want one? We can try together 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

dramaqueen said:


> Can clowns be kept by themselves or do they do better in groups? Not trying to hijack your thread, Diablo. I'm just curious, as your thread title says. lol


 They can be kept by themselves, and without an Anemone.


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Incoming Question: For Coral/Tank lighting, will Flourescent do? I can't find anything that isn't 60$ that isn't Flourescent or Incadcent
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Normal flourescent lighting will not work in a Reef tank.
36" Aquarium T5 HO Light 117W LED Reef Fish w/ TIMER CE | eBay
ZooMed AquaSun T5-HO Double Light Linear 24" Fluorescent Hood | eBay
There ya go.


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## dramaqueen

No, I'll never get into saltwater. I do find it interesting when I visit the saltwater area occaisionally. I love seeing everyone's saltwater tanks. They're beautiful. 
Thanks, Reefing Madness.


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## diablo13

ok....so t5 it is. Thanks Reefing Madness!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Would this be OK? Coralife Mini Aqualight T5 Dual Aquarium Lamp Fixture at PETCO
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Would this be OK? Coralife Mini Aqualight T5 Dual Aquarium Lamp Fixture at PETCO
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yup, looks good. :thumbsup: You might end up using both lamps as 10k though. Just one might not be enough, depending on what kind of coral you put in, like a Anemone.


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## diablo13

Yay. And it only cost 80$ 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Hey, could I use a LED light? It cost about 40$, oppose to the 80. LED Aquarium Light
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dramaqueen

You better start saving up, Diablo. lol


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## diablo13

Yeah......300$ -__-
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Hey, could I use a LED light? It cost about 40$, oppose to the 80. LED Aquarium Light
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 This unit does not put out enough light or lumens for your reef tank.


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## diablo13

Aw, dang it. Ok, but is LED an OK light? I could try and find a brighter one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Aw, dang it. Ok, but is LED an OK light? I could try and find a brighter one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yup. LED are up and coming.


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## diablo13

Ok, LED it is! I'll see if either of my LFS has any affordable ones
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Ok, LED it is! I'll see if either of my LFS has any affordable ones
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I think that a unit that has at least 600 Lumens would be good for a reef tank that small.


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## diablo13

600 Lumens....Ok then! I think I'm looking in on both LFS on Thursday. Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Erm....another question...on Thursday i'm definately looking in on the Saltwater LFS, and I know they have allot of gobies and shrimp( it's a sorta barrack system, the gobies are juvenile) and what species would work with shrimp, other than Watchman? And what shrimp would work? Just triggers, or would Skunk or Sexy Shrimp work? Thanks! Yet again....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Erm....another question...on Thursday i'm definately looking in on the Saltwater LFS, and I know they have allot of gobies and shrimp( it's a sorta barrack system, the gobies are juvenile) and what species would work with shrimp, other than Watchman? And what shrimp would work? Just triggers, or would Skunk or Sexy Shrimp work? Thanks! Yet again....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Umm, whats a barrack system? Watchmen are cool. And whats a trigger shrimp? Coral Banded Shrimp should be kept alone or in mated pairs. If you keep them with other shrimp they will eat em kill em or both. the other shrimp will work together.
Gobies for Sale: Goby Fish Species Including Shrimp Gobies
Goby's, you get to pick em. They are peaceful.


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## diablo13

Sorry, I meant Pistol Shrimp. I love that Green Clown Goby, I'll see if they have those. I love Gobies, their faces make me laugh. Barracks look like this: fish barrack system - Google Search very small, really, but I assume it's short-term. I believe they keep the adults in proper tanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Sorry, I meant Pistol Shrimp. I love that Green Clown Goby, I'll see if they have those. I love Gobies, their faces make me laugh. Barracks look like this: fish barrack system - Google Search very small, really, but I assume it's short-term. I believe they keep the adults in proper tanks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 :thumbsup:


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## onefish2fish

clown gobies wont work with pistol shrimp, 

your going to be looking for, but not limited to,
yellow watchman goby, yasha goby, high fin red banded goby, wheelers shrimp goby, orange spotted goby, and basically watchman type gobies.
catalina gobies are a cooler water species. sleeper gobies, clown gobies, neon gobies, firefish, dragonettes, wont form a symbiotic pair. Symbiotic | Define Symbiotic at Dictionary.com

im not sure, but think engineer gobies will not either.


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## diablo13

Ok, can anything go in with it, though? Like a shrimp or maybe a scallop?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

pistol shrimp with the goby. cleaner shrimp, sexy shrimp, peppermint shrimp are other good shrimp additions, but wont "pair" with any fish.

scallops dont tend to live long term and should be left in the wild IMO.


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## diablo13

Ok, and I have a question. On Liveaquaria.com, I searched up Nano Fish, and I found a couple I liked. Swissguard Basslet was one( I know if found it would probably be expensive) and a Fire Goby. I remember you saying it couldn't go in a 10 gallon, and I know it needs a lid and only 1 could go in, but would one be possible? On the website it says 10 as a minimum
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Ok, and I have a question. On Liveaquaria.com, I searched up Nano Fish, and I found a couple I liked. Swissguard Basslet was one( I know if found it would probably be expensive) and a Fire Goby. I remember you saying it couldn't go in a 10 gallon, and I know it needs a lid and only 1 could go in, but would one be possible? On the website it says 10 as a minimum
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I'd go with Live Aquaria, they have a pretty good name when it comes to sizing up the fish and its requirements.


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## diablo13

LiveAquaria seems like a good source of information, and I love those Swissguard Basslets  but, yknow, they're 130$ online.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

Yea, some of those exotic ones are a lil pricey.


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## diablo13

Yeah, that's a drawback of the hobby. Pretty=Expensive 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Yeah, that's a drawback of the hobby. Pretty=Expensive
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Well, it can be, if you want be the only one around with a special fish.


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## diablo13

Yup, but if you get that one special fish, it's worth it  unless that fish is like 500$. Unless makes money, Thats not worth it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Yup, but if you get that one special fish, it's worth it  unless that fish is like 500$. Unless makes money, Thats not worth it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 :thumbsup: Oh, just wait til you start to look at exotic Coral. WOW.


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## diablo13

I only want some Zoanthids....if I wanted some Exotic Corals...Jesus 0.0
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> I only want some Zoanthids....if I wanted some Exotic Corals...Jesus 0.0
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 :BIGwinky:

Just wait til the bug hits....Then its...this and that one..and this and that one...:-D


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## diablo13

Thank god I'm limited in a 10 gallon, or you could be sure that's what would happen. I'm already addicted to tropical fish  I still Need to finish stocking my 29. Just 2 more weeks....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

:BIGgrin: Have fun with it.


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## diablo13

Yup....nice school of Neon Tetras and a BN pleco. Should be nice and active......anyway, thank you for all your help!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

I just came back from the LFS, they do carry Swissguard Basslets, yay! But on the clownfish, the had 1 True Percula, and the rest where Occy or a kind I've never heard of, Onyx Clownfish. They were really small, like an inch long. Does anyone know what they are?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Yknow, I've been thinking about it......my LFS has contest to win a 46 gallon, and, depending on how old my danios are, I could use the 10 gallon for Neon Tetras and the 29 for Saltwater. This is just a train of thought, I'd love to do it but I know I'd need a protein skimmer and like 30-35 pounds of Live Rock, but if this does happen, can anything go in with a pair of Occy Clowns? I love Flame/ Coral Beauty Angels, but I think that tank is too small for them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Hello? Anybody?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

diablo13 said:


> Yknow, I've been thinking about it......my LFS has contest to win a 46 gallon, and, depending on how old my danios are, I could use the 10 gallon for Neon Tetras and the 29 for Saltwater. This is just a train of thought, I'd love to do it but I know I'd need a protein skimmer and like 30-35 pounds of Live Rock, but if this does happen, can anything go in with a pair of Occy Clowns? I love Flame/ Coral Beauty Angels, but I think that tank is too small for them
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


the 29 wouldnt need a skimmer, but i suggest one. i think either the flame or coral beauty would really be pushing it in a 29 gal. and i think they would be better suited for a 40-50+ gallon tank along with any of the other dwarf speices of angels.
on a positive note, a 29 gallon would allow another fish or two along with the pair of clowns you wanted.


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## diablo13

Yes, could you recommend a good protein skimmer that's 100$ or less? I know the Angels would be pushing it, they need about a 40 inch tank, right? The LFS keeps a pair of Occys in a 15 gallon reef up front, one black and one orange. I think that would be a nice combination. What would be good fish to live with them? And thanks for looking, Onefish 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

onefish2fish said:


> the 29 wouldnt need a skimmer, but i suggest one. i think either the flame or coral beauty would really be pushing it in a 29 gal. and i think they would be better suited for a 40-50+ gallon tank along with any of the other dwarf speices of angels.
> on a positive note, a 29 gallon would allow another fish or two along with the pair of clowns you wanted.


 I agree with all of this. Check these guys out.
Saltwater Clown Fish - Aquatic Connection
Clownfish: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia Article
And I can't find much info on the Onyx Clownfish, sorry man.


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Yes, could you recommend a good protein skimmer that's 100$ or less? I know the Angels would be pushing it, they need about a 40 inch tank, right? The LFS keeps a pair of Occys in a 15 gallon reef up front, one black and one orange. I think that would be a nice combination. What would be good fish to live with them? And thanks for looking, Onefish
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Ah man your killing me, I don't get home until 4:30 to answer.:-D The clowns you are looking at will stay to themselves, you can keep almost anything with them.


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## Reefing Madness

Reef Octopus BH 100 Hang on Back Protein Skimmer - AquaCave
Bubble Magus BM NAC3.5 Cone Protein Skimmer 300L NIB | eBay
SKimmers


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## onefish2fish

this is for a 29 gallon tank? 

a hang on skimmer would work, ive never used them though. if memory serves me i remember reading/hearing the aqua c remora being decent. reading online reviews/googling will help with a skimmer. all my skimmers have been over $100 except a MTC skimmer i got used from a buddy that he gave me it for $100.. the thing was like a $350+ skimmer lol.
if your going to do a tank running a skimmer i strongly suggest investing in a decent piece of equipment. alot of research is key, as ive stated read online reviews.
skimmers, lights, and flow are the 3 most important pieces of equipment. 

check your area for a local reefing club. you may find some great deals there.

if this was my 29 gallon tank ( ofcourse we know it isnt, but lets pretend :wink: ) 
i would drill the back glass granted it isnt tempered which it shouldnt be, install a glass-holes.com overflow box. i would DIY a 20 gallon long tank into a sump. i would run a small in-sump skimmer, possibly a ASM mini G or something similiar. i think i would do 6 bulbs t5 lighting but with a DIY retrofit kit from hellolights.com
i would pick up 40lbs of dry rock/40lbs sand from marcorocks.com, fill my tank with most, if not all of the rock in a unique structure and not just a straight wall. i would add sand until i acheived a 4'' layer of sand. i would use 2 hydor k powerheads, or even better 2 ecotech mp10s if you could afford them. 
for livestock i would have 2 clowns, a goby and pistol shrimp pair, skunk cleaner shrimp, a mixture of different kinds of snails... i would add one more fish but cant decide, maybe a captive bred bangaii cardinal. the rest of my livestock would be a mixture of corals.


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## Reefing Madness

onefish2fish said:


> this is for a 29 gallon tank?
> 
> a hang on skimmer would work, ive never used them though. if memory serves me i remember reading/hearing the aqua c remora being decent. reading online reviews/googling will help with a skimmer. all my skimmers have been over $100 except a MTC skimmer i got used from a buddy that he gave me it for $100.. the thing was like a $350+ skimmer lol.
> if your going to do a tank running a skimmer i strongly suggest investing in a decent piece of equipment. alot of research is key, as ive stated read online reviews.
> skimmers, lights, and flow are the 3 most important pieces of equipment.
> 
> check your area for a local reefing club. you may find some great deals there.
> 
> if this was my 29 gallon tank ( ofcourse we know it isnt, but lets pretend :wink: )
> i would drill the back glass granted it isnt tempered which it shouldnt be, install a glass-holes.com overflow box. i would DIY a 20 gallon long tank into a sump. i would run a small in-sump skimmer, possibly a ASM mini G or something similiar. i think i would do 6 bulbs t5 lighting but with a DIY retrofit kit from hellolights.com
> i would pick up 40lbs of dry rock/40lbs sand from marcorocks.com, fill my tank with most, if not all of the rock in a unique structure and not just a straight wall. i would add sand until i acheived a 4'' layer of sand. i would use 2 hydor k powerheads, or even better 2 ecotech mp10s if you could afford them.
> for livestock i would have 2 clowns, a goby and pistol shrimp pair, skunk cleaner shrimp, a mixture of different kinds of snails... i would add one more fish but cant decide, maybe a captive bred bangaii cardinal. the rest of my livestock would be a mixture of corals.


 Can't go wrong here. But, your lights.....Gotta be Halide or LED, gotta have the shimmer, thats the icing on the cake. The NEC Bubble Magus on my link is one of the best made, and only $80. Not the Aqua C.


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## diablo13

Ok, that seriously confused me @[email protected] but would It be OK for me not to have a sump? I know it filters the water more and such, but for such a small tank is it necisary? For the skimmer, I have a 45% off coupon for anything at my LFS, and my birthday was a couple days ago, so let's see how good of a deal I can get  I was thinking this lighting system: Coralife Dual Fixture High Output T5 Aquarium Light Fixture at PETCO And replacing the Atnict bulb with another 10000k. According the the refernce library, that should give me medium lighting. I like the idea of a goby, would a Firefish work? And on the snails, are saltwater snails the same as freshwater where they have a high bioload?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Ok, that seriously confused me @[email protected] but would It be OK for me not to have a sump? I know it filters the water more and such, but for such a small tank is it necisary? For the skimmer, I have a 45% off coupon for anything at my LFS, and my birthday was a couple days ago, so let's see how good of a deal I can get  I was thinking this lighting system: Coralife Dual Fixture High Output T5 Aquarium Light Fixture at PETCO And replacing the Atnict bulb with another 10000k. According the the refernce library, that should give me medium lighting. I like the idea of a goby, would a Firefish work? And on the snails, are saltwater snails the same as freshwater where they have a high bioload?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your ok without a sump, no worries. The way your leaning on the lights is fine also. Your fish choices are good too. Snails have a high bio load? Haven't heard that one before. Never had to do numbers on those, jsut threw in a bunch. Skimmer takes care of that waste.


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## diablo13

Oh, ok. I only asked if the sump was neccisarry because the 29 didn't come with a stand, so I'm not sure how that would work......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Instead of the Cardinal, would a Royal Gramma Basslet work?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

Yup, nice fish.


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Oh, ok. I only asked if the sump was neccisarry because the 29 didn't come with a stand, so I'm not sure how that would work......
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ya make a stand.:-D


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## diablo13

I think it's fine now, it's on a very sturdy peice of Furniture, but if it's absoluely necisary I could make one. So a Pair of Clowns, a Pair of Pistols, a Skunk Cleaner, A Firefish, maybe a Royal Gramma, maybe a couple of snails. I really hope I win that 46 gallon.......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

i would not do a pair of pistols unless it was a known male/female pair.


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## diablo13

....I'll only do one, but didn't you reccomend that yesterday? This should end up really pretty......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Wait, instead of a Royal Gramma, I meant a Orchid/Purple Dottyback. They're also called Pseudochromis, right? Would that work? And I saw this cute goby at the LFS yesterday, I forgot it specific name, but it started with a C, looked like a Yellow Prawn Goby, and was shifting sand thru it's gills. Does anybody have any idea what kind of Goby it was?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

i suggested a goby and shrimp pair, not a pair of pistol shrimp unless it was a known male/female pair. you can have 1 fish working with 2 shrimp, just as i would asume 2 fish ( a proven male/female pair of goby ) with 2 shrimp would work. however to be clear i suggest 1 goby and 1 pistol shrimp. sorry if i said something confusing.


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## diablo13

Ok, I get it now. Do Prawn Goby shift sand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onefish2fish

all gobies can shift sand. prawn gobies are shrimp gobies. sleeper gobies are more of a sand sifting type


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> I think it's fine now, it's on a very sturdy peice of Furniture, but if it's absoluely necisary I could make one. So a Pair of Clowns, a Pair of Pistols, a Skunk Cleaner, A Firefish, maybe a Royal Gramma, maybe a couple of snails. I really hope I win that 46 gallon.......
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:-D Absolutely.

Symbiotic Relationships: Pistol Shrimp & Gobies: A Safe Alliance


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## diablo13

Hmm.....by it looked like a Yellow Prawn Goby, I liked it well enough, but I wouldn't buy it, but I saw it's sand-filtering action and fell in love XD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Hmm.....by it looked like a Yellow Prawn Goby, I liked it well enough, but I wouldn't buy it, but I saw it's sand-filtering action and fell in love XD
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 LOL:welldone:


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## diablo13

Yeah.....I'm weird like that XD he was pretty cute, actually. His frown and sand coming out of his gills XD when I came up he even looked at me. Hopefully one like him will be there when Im ready to start....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Hey guys, I know a 29 gallon is a little small for a Flame/ Coral Beauty Angel, but all the sources I've read say 29-30 gallons, even your profiles. If I wanted one of those, what could go with it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Hello? Anyone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Hey guys, I know a 29 gallon is a little small for a Flame/ Coral Beauty Angel, but all the sources I've read say 29-30 gallons, even your profiles. If I wanted one of those, what could go with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure you could. They may pick at corals, if you had any plans on having any. But yea, your good with that fish. No one is going to give you crap about a one gallon difference.


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## diablo13

Yes, I figured 1 gallon didn't really matter very much. According to Pasfur's stocking thread, I could have 1 of those, and still be able to get the Orchid Dottyback and a Goby. Hrmm, and now I like Green Chromis. Geez, this really opens up my options 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Yes, I figured 1 gallon didn't really matter very much. According to Pasfur's stocking thread, I could have 1 of those, and still be able to get the Orchid Dottyback and a Goby. Hrmm, and now I like Green Chromis. Geez, this really opens up my options
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your list is sound. But, only get one Chromis. They look neat, but they are not going to school in your tank, or any other for that matter. They are really mean buggers. They will chase each other unitl there is only one left. At first they will be ok, but once settled in. Not good.


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## diablo13

0.0 ok, I thought they were schooling fish. Thanks for the advice. So i just have to decide the Central Fish for the tank.......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Well, just came back from the LFS, no Flame or Coral Beauty Angels. Or Angels, for that matter. My dad really likes the Tangs, though. I wonder if I should tell him they need a 125 gallon tank. Anyway, I saw these awesome little things called Camel Shrimp. Does anyone know what they do, like clean algae?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Well, just came back from the LFS, no Flame or Coral Beauty Angels. Or Angels, for that matter. My dad really likes the Tangs, though. I wonder if I should tell him they need a 125 gallon tank. Anyway, I saw these awesome little things called Camel Shrimp. Does anyone know what they do, like clean algae?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Camel Shrimp are often misidentified as Peppermint Shrimp. Pretty much the same thing. No algae eating, well, they'll pick at it, but not really big enough to put a dent in it, scavengers.

Saltwater Aquarium Shrimp for Marine Reef Aquariums: Camel Shrimp


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## MarinePsycho

Tracking post =3


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## onefish2fish

camel shrimp are not reef safe.


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## diablo13

Oh, crud, cross those off the list, then. I'm really liking the Coral Beauty Angel, I think it's beautiful. So 1 Goby, 1 Pistol Shrimp, 1 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Orchid Dottyback, 1 Coral Beauty/ Flame Angel, or 2 Occy Clownfish. Does the stocking plan sound good? And how often should I do water changes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Oh, crud, cross those off the list, then. I'm really liking the Coral Beauty Angel, I think it's beautiful. So 1 Goby, 1 Pistol Shrimp, 1 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Orchid Dottyback, 1 Coral Beauty/ Flame Angel, or 2 Occy Clownfish. Does the stocking plan sound good? And how often should I do water changes?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 List is still sound.
Water changes,either 10% a week or 25% monthly.


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## Reefing Madness

*QUICK STATS* *Care Level*: Easy *Temperament*: Peaceful *Reef Compatible**: With Caution* *Water Conditions*: dKH 8-12, pH 8.1-8.4, sg 1.023-1.025, 64-77° F *Max. Size*: 2" *Color Form*: Red *Diet*: Omnivore *Supplements*: Iodine *Compatibility*: View Chart *Family*: Rhynchocinetidae 
Camel Shrimp.


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## diablo13

10% weekly sounds good. Thanks for all the help, guys 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diablo13

Oh, I almost forgot, at the LFS they had some beautiful Nudibranches. Are these hard to care for?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Oh, I almost forgot, at the LFS they had some beautiful Nudibranches. Are these hard to care for?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very hard to care for. Not a good choice. Gotta watch the corals with some of them also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudibranch


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## diablo13

Ah, ok then. And one more question for tonight. If I get the Coral Beauty, I know it will eventually nip a coral. If it nips a Zoanthid, will it be poisoned, or is it only poisonous to humans?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dramaqueen

It sounds like everything is coming together nicely. I can't wait to see this tank all set up. I know it will be awhile, though.


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## Reefing Madness

diablo13 said:


> Ah, ok then. And one more question for tonight. If I get the Coral Beauty, I know it will eventually nip a coral. If it nips a Zoanthid, will it be poisoned, or is it only poisonous to humans?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I've never read a case of a CB being killed for eating Zoos.
But for all who are reading this going, WTH is he talking about.
Palytoxin poisoning after dermal contact with zo... [J Emerg Med. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI


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## diablo13

Ok, then! Thanks for all your help, Onefish2Fish and Reefing Madness 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FIVEPOINT7

Ok, it seems to me you're done with this thread, so I'm gonna go ahead and hijack it. I'm looking into building a FOWLR tank, going to start buying stuff for it tomorrow. I'm going to design it around one fish, so I need as much info on this fish as I can get. What it eats, what kind of fish its compatible with, etc. I'm designing it around a Lion Fish.


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## Reefing Madness

Saltwater Aquarium Fish for Marine Aquariums: Volitan Lionfish, Colored
Marine Compatability Chart
Lionfish (Pterois volitans) - Animals - A-Z Animals - Animal Facts, Information, Pictures, Videos, Resources and Links
I fed mine Goldfish when I had one. He ate like 3 times per week, and about 3-4 small feeders at a time. Live Goldfish.


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## Reefing Madness

double post


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## trukgirl

Feeder Goldfish is the #1 worst food for a lion. If it won't eat anything but live food, well-fed Mollies are a better choice, but lions really need nutrition from saltwater food. If you get it when it is a baby, it is much easier to transition to frozen food. Mine eats PE mysis and the same seafood mix I give my eel (mussels, clams, squid, octopus) Lions tend to have bigger eyes than their stomachs and tend to choke or get blocked up on live feeders. Frozen is the best and cheaper for you.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm


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## Reefing Madness

:-DWelpl, I tell ya, if he was undernourished, he was very big and healthy for a fish he wasn't supposed to be eating. :-D In my Aggressive tank I had a Snowflake Eel, Spotted Grouper, Porcupine Puffer and a Lion Fish, all ate the same thing. Had em for 2 years, and man did they get BIG. Anyways the reason I don't have them is they got to big for the 125 I had them in. Coulda kept a couple but decided I wanted to go with Tangs instead.:-D


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## trukgirl

Just like anything else, there are always exceptions to the rule. After doing research on lions and eels before I purchased them, I would not give them feeder goldfish.


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## diablo13

Ok, first off, sorry for the necrobump everyone. If this ever happens, If it does it'll be a long way off, but does anyone know information about the Papuan Toby Puffer? I was checking out LiveAquaria and I saw it, apparently they get 5" and can be kept in a 55 gallon FOWLR community.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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