# new tank set up, advice please?



## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

So far I've found this site really helpful and as I am trying very hard to make my new tank work, I really appreciate all the advice I've been given on here....and I need some more 
Ok first here's a brief overview of my situation.
I have two tanks, a 5 gallon hospital tank and a 15 gallon which I've recently set up. The hospital tank currently contains my angelfish, who has a bad eye (it's bulging slightly and has a white patch inside it) and I am treating him with melafix (started yesterday). he was acting very odd yesterday and the day before, having these sort of spasms where his fins would jerk uncontrollably for about 5 seconds, same thing sometimes happened with his gills. he wasn't scratching on anything. I think the melafix may be helping because he's not having the spasms today.
the 15 gallon I set up on Thursday evening (I don't know what that translates to if you're in the US/UK) and left overnight, the next day I put my gourami and 3 panda corys into it. the tank looks beautiful and the fish are swimming around happily. I didn't want to treat the angelfish until the other fish were safely housed elsewhere.

so that's just an overview (sorry for long post!) 
I have had to revise my original stocking plan several times since I first decided to set up the 15 gallon. my current stocking plan is the gourami, 6 corys (i want to get 3 more to add to the 3 I already have, but if I'm going to be overstocking I won't), the angelfish (if he recovers) and a bristlenose catfish. I'm thinking I might get an albino bristlenose since they are supposed to be slightly smaller. are there any other differences between albino and normal bristlenoses?

I have driftwood in my tank. also a large java fern and some floating elodea. it's a bare bottom tank. the filter is a homemade one (from my old tank), I've noticed it provides more water flow in the larger tank compared to the 5 gallon, presumably because the bubbles have further to travel to reach the surface?
temperature is set to 27 Celsius but the thermometer is staying at a fairly steady 25-26. that's ok by me, since the catfish are supposed to prefer cooler temps.
pH is around 7.5, actually a bit on the alkaline side which is odd because I'm used to tanks being acid. I guess the tapwater has buffers in it. it will probably get more acid over time. (do the tannins from driftwood make it acid?)
what I want to know is, will my tank be suitable for a single bristlenose or is it way too small? I promise I won't get one if it's too small because I trust everyone's advice  and will I be ok getting 3 more corys? the 3 I already have are very happy, scooting around eating everything they can find. I don't think the floor of my tank has ever looked so clean, haha.
another thing that's sort of unrelated but I might as well ask it here, what are people's experiences treating pop-eye and other diseases with melafix?

thanks in advance for your help


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

try checking out This Website. It has a stocking calculator with compatability indicators. I Use it religiously then check it's results against what people here have experienced. For example, even with 600gph filtration on my 55 it says I'm maxed out on stocking with 20 Zebra danios, 2 gold Gouarmi and 8 emerald cory. After talking with people here I've heard people having twice as many of any of those with no ill effect. 

Its just a great way to narrow the field.


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## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm not an expert, I just did a lot of reading when setting up my tanks (35 and 75 litre). I think you need a bigger tank for a bristlenose. I ruled it out for either of my tanks, and my bigger one is larger than yours. 

I have 4 pandas in my 35 litre (after asking on here). They are doing fine. I think 6 sounds ok. Hopefully, Byron or someone knowledgable can steer you right on that question. I wonder if your cories would prefer a substrate rather than bare bottom? Mine certainly seem to like foraging over the gravel.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

thanks both of you 
i was wondering about the corys and the substrate, they seem happy but i'm worried the bare bottom may wear down their barbels...i know sharp gravel does that but without soft sand couldn't the glass wear them down? i don't know.
i've tried using that site before and it doesn't work for me because i can't input my home-made filter...if only there was a 'sponge filter' option maybe it would be useful  i'm thinking of having a corys species tank anyway as they are my favorite fish, maybe i'll get a pair of sterbai corys as well if i can find them cheap enough.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

A 15 gallon tank is too small for angelfish. They need at least a 30 gallon for one angelfish and a tank height of at least 18". What type of gourami do you have? if it's a dwarf I think the gourami with 6 cories would be ok for a 15 gallon. Personally, I would not add a BN as the cories are already bottom feeders and there wouldn't be enough "territory" to add another bottom feeder.

I've only had one instance of pop-eye. I had a cory who's eye started to bulge. I put him in a hospital tank, treated with melafix and did water changes every couple days and it cleared up right away.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

i won't get a bristlenose then, i'd like to make it a cory species tank. i have a golden gourami and from my experience with gouramis they grow pretty slowly.
i'm afraid i'm stuck with the angelfish  and i can't get a bigger tank. i think his eye problem may be chronic as it hasn't improved yet, but i've only been treating him for a few days. i've heard of large fish having problems if kept in too small a tank. i've only had the angelfish for a few years, is that long enough for him to have developed chronic health issues from being kept in too small a tank? as long as hes not going to infect my other fish i'll just try to keep him alive and happy for as long as possible. i wont get an angelfish again though, at least not unless i have a bigger tank.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Cories definately like sand. Whether it's a requirement, I have no idea.

I do know that without a dark substrate fish can become stressed and more vulnerable to illness.
There are lots of black sands on the market that are great for cories. If you want to go the cheap route, go buy some pool filter sand. (It's not dark, but better than nothing IMO.)

A BN would fit in your tank technically, but as was mentioned you already have some bottom feeders.
There's also a problem with BN identifications and variations... some get to 6 inches, some get to 12. 

The driftwood MAY release tannins which can acidify the water.
You may want to look into placing some peat moss into your filter to lower the PH-
Gouramis and Cories prefer acidic water.


As for the angel- In my experience when they are stunted by a tank it's a sudden death. However, being in a tank too small can make them vulnerable to other illnesses.

Then again, angels are technically shoaling fish that prefer the company of their own kind. That ALSO will make it more vulnerable to illness.

Finally, it may help to raise the temperature in the hospital tank. Perhaps around 80 F. Make sure to raise the temperature slowly, but higher temps can help fish recover- similiar to when a human gets a fever to combat an illness.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

thankyou so much that was really helpful 
the angelfish is definitely feeling better, he is no longer having spasms or producing excess slime, but the eye still looks odd. the temp is there at the moment is set to about 27, dont have a thermometer in that tank but it usually feels pretty warm in there.
about the BN, how territorial are they? i have kept them before and they never seem aggressive or anything. would they chase/stress out the corys?
i think i'll just wait for my tank to naturally acidify, i dont want to go adjusting the pH as i usually find it becomes really acid after a few weeks.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

In a 15g things will start getting crowded on the floor of the tank with a group of corys and a BN. Corys are shoaling fish that must be in a group, five is a perfect number; 3 can manage but I would only have 3 if I had more than one species, with 3 of each. There was another post on here yesterday or the day previous, one from me on a scientific study about shoaling fish being healthier in numbers, and another member [kitten penang] posted an excellent video of hundreds of corys in the Amazon as an example. This is a most important issue for their health.

As for the substrate, sand or small-grain smooth gravel will work equally fine. For someone relatively new to this I would recommend gravel as there are fewer "possible" issues compared to sand. Not to say sand isn't workable, it certainly is; I have it in one tank. But it is more work to maintain a healthy substrate and in a small tank problems can arise very fast, and with corys spending so much time on the substrate, it needs to be clean and healthy. Barbel degeneration is now believed by many to be more an issue of health and stress than gravel. And from my experience of 20 years with Corydoras (dozens of species) in gravel substrate aquaria, I have had no issues.

And I concur with redchigh about both small tanks and shoaling fish being maintained singly causing various health issues due to stress. I understand your predicament with the angel from the other thread. But this is an important point and as many other new aquarists may well read this thread, it needs stating clearly.

Byron.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

thanks byron.
i won't get a BN then.
i'd like to know how many corys i could safely fit in the tank though....is 6 pandas and 2 sterbas too many? would 4 pandas and 2 sterbas work? i need a rough idea 
i have lots of old sand a gravel from previous tanks which i could wash up but i don't really want to put substrate into the tank while it's full of water. plus it's much harder to vacuum with substrate.
after reading about barbel erosion i'm going to try to keep the floor of the tank as clean as possible, though. i don't want my beloved corys dying 

just another quick question, i know the answer will probably be no but i thought i'd ask anyway. i have one gold gourami in the tank and she is so pretty i would like to get another one, but the last time i had two gouramis they fought so much i had to separate them (that was in a 5 gallon tank though). would it be a bad idea to get another gourami? i do love them...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

dorabaker said:


> thanks byron.
> i won't get a BN then.
> i'd like to know how many corys i could safely fit in the tank though....is 6 pandas and 2 sterbas too many? would 4 pandas and 2 sterbas work? i need a rough idea
> i have lots of old sand a gravel from previous tanks which i could wash up but i don't really want to put substrate into the tank while it's full of water. plus it's much harder to vacuum with substrate.
> ...


If you want two species of cory, then always minimum 3 of each, so 3-4 panda and 3 sterbai. Panda are especially chummy I find, asnd are almost always together, sterbai less so, but still they appreciate knowing they have company.

As long as the gravel is smooth, they'll be OK. It is general tank "cleanliness" that matters, keeping nitrates low, regular water changes, etc. Plants help with this.

A second gourmai in a 15g, no. A 36-inch tank is recommended (see out profile, it is the Blue Gourami, same species). They attain 5-6 inches and are territorial.


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## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

Byron said:


> Panda are especially chummy I find, asnd are almost always together,


My pandas seem very independent and they spread out in the tank. I'll find three around the same area, and then one will be way over the other side by himself.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

i've never seen a 6 inch gourami, although they probably dont sell fully grown ones in shops. i believe you when you say they are territorial...thats why i had to seperate my pearl gouramis. so i won't get another one.

i notice that with my three pandas, although they will swim around all together, more often than not two will 'pair off' and go scavenging around the tank while one is left behind looking forlorn...which is why i want more of them. its never the same one that's left behind...i think they must like to be in pairs or something. i want to even out the numbers (to 4 or to 6) so they all have a 'partner'.
i may have to pass on the sterba's - they are so EXPENSIVE. the cheapest i've found are still $9 each. 
i always thought that corys of different species would shoal together - is this true?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

dorabaker said:


> i've never seen a 6 inch gourami, although they probably dont sell fully grown ones in shops. i believe you when you say they are territorial...thats why i had to seperate my pearl gouramis. so i won't get another one.
> 
> i notice that with my three pandas, although they will swim around all together, more often than not two will 'pair off' and go scavenging around the tank while one is left behind looking forlorn...which is why i want more of them. its never the same one that's left behind...i think they must like to be in pairs or something. i want to even out the numbers (to 4 or to 6) so they all have a 'partner'.
> i may have to pass on the sterba's - they are so EXPENSIVE. the cheapest i've found are still $9 each.
> i always thought that corys of different species would shoal together - is this true?


Corys are shoaling fish which means they occur in large groups in nature (see that video kitten penang posted the other day) and the group is of their own species. Obviously they feel comfortable when they are together like that, and that means less stress which means better health and better immune systems to fight off little things that would quickly bring down a stressed fish.

They also occur in mixed species groups in nature; more than one species, but always dozens if not hundreds of each species. My experience has been that corys together will be more relaxed, and having several of each species makes this easier. In my 115g I have some 25 corys, most are 4-5 of each species. Givwen this option the corys will do what they like. I can clearly detect some species spending more time with themselves than with other species. All species will separate, sometimes into 2 or 3, sometimes individual. The C. metae are almost always with other species individually, whereas the 5 C. reticulatus always stay either together (2-3, sometime 4, sometimes all 5) or on their own, but within eye sight of each other. They "know" they are all there, and that relaxes them. Just like fish that are somewhat "shy" needing wood or plants for shelter; if it is provided they will feel more protected and come out more than if it is not provided and they are constantly under threat, as they perceive it. Providing the right environment for each fish we keep is highly important for that fish's continuing good health and long life.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

i'd like to have even numbers of each species even so. i don't know, its weird but in the past whenever i've kept uneven numbers of fish, ONE has always died so i end up with even numbers. weird huh? :shock:
anyway i'm thinking 4-6 panda corys and 2-4 sterbas. would i be able to fit that many fish in my tank? I'll probably have to start off with just two sterbas anyway, and save up for the other two.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Admittedly, it's unlikely... Your cories could be pairing off to try to find a place to spawn.

With few or no plants and no substrate, the eggs could be getting eaten within seconds...
Are one or two of the cories a bit more plump than the rest?


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

well...first i only got these corys a week ago and they are still very young, so it seems unlikely they'd be breeding. at this age it's impossible to sex them. one is larger, one is medium sized and one is smaller. like i said its never the same two that are swimming around together. i think they just like to be in pairs. often they will sit all three in a row, though. very cute.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

p.s. my tank is actually heavily planted, well i've got an enourmous java fern growing on a piece of driftwood and heaps of elodea floating at the other end of the tank, and also a ceramic log for the catfish to hide in. i'm looking into getting some java moss as well. just because my tank is bare bottom doesn't mean its also undecorated


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

I have a pair of Goldens and they do fine. However for your tank i would advise against it simply because of stocking and space restrictions you have. In a well (if not heavily) planted large tank my two have been happy as clams and have not been aggressive towards each other or the other fish. I attribute this to them having plenty of places to get away from each other and having quick tank mates. 

























I recommend you get minimum 3 of each of the cory you are talking about, and see how everything does before considering any other fish for the tank.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

wow you have a lovely tank! i'm not risking getting another gourami though.


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

good call


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

would i be ok adding some tetras? or would the gourami eat them when he grows bigger? what sort would you reccomend? neons and cardinals are lovely but i've never had much luck with them. years ago i had some and of the shoal that i had, two of them jumped out of the tank (even though i had a cover on it - how they got out i dont know), several got sucked into the filter and the rest died mysteriously. thats pretty much my experience with any small fish species summed up, actually. i'm worried the current would be too strong for tetras, even thought its a gentle current.


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## TexasTanker (May 5, 2010)

Yeah.... I don't think so. You might have the filtration to sufficiently clean the water but I really don't think you're going to have the space. It really is quite a small tank for so many fish.


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## dorabaker (Jul 3, 2010)

ok, just wondered  i'm still not sure how many corys im getting or what species. i guess i'll probably decide on the day, as a lot depends on whether the panda corys are still on sale or not (they were when i got my first 3)


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