# New tank is setup. What next?



## NC Frank

My 46 bow is currently setup. I have 25 pounds of base rock and 15 pounds of live rock (which has had some die off due to me wasting 2 days in the setup process - they were in buckets with salt water so I don't know how bad of a die off I had).

I have two koralia 2s running as well as the heater and my lights (12 hours a day - 10k and actinic). My protein skimmer is setup but I haven't started running it yet. I figured I would give everything a day or two to settle in.

When do I start the protein skimmer?

When do I start the carbon filter?

What should I expect to see during the next few weeks/months? This is all new to me. I have been keeping FW fish (discus, angels, cichlids, etc. for 30 years) so what should I expect? I have read several books on starting marine aquariums but I honestly feel the best advice comes from people that you can engage in a conversation with who have seen this stuff first hand.

When do I start testing the water and salinity? Obviously I want to wait a day or so for everything to settle to get true measurements.

Am I correct in saying that I should not do any water changes at this point... just top the water off with RO water?

I decided that since I am moving sometime next year (house going on the market sometime early next year) I am going to keep this setup as a simple lightly stocked fowler so I only have to worry about moving 3 or so fish... and we are moving locally or I would just hold off completely.


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## wake49

Very good so far. 

If you start running the Protein Skimmer now, it might not be collecting anything as there are no real organics built up yet. But this will give the Skimmer time to break in. What kind of skimmer was it again?

Test the water every day, or at least every other day until you see a steady drop in Nitrites and Ammonia. Nitrates will start to show up, hopefully <5ppm. Running the skimmer might help keep the Nitrate level down. Test salinity when you mix the water, then every once in a while to make sure your losing water to evaporation and not a leak.

Next wait for a diatom bloom. It looks like dusty, rust colored algae coating the live rock and sand. After this recedes, coraline algae should start to cover the glass and rocks. This is more purple and almost looks flaky. 

After the diatom bloom you will start to see microfauna in the sand, on the rocks and on the glass. This microfauna is copepods, amphipods and small crustaceons of the like. They copepods appear as little white dots that are kind of "jumping" around the glass, and the amphipods look like minature shrimp. When this microfauna has populated your tank, you are then ready for ONE fish. 

Let us know step-by-step and we'll help guide you through the proccess. Also if you have a camera, post pics in the Saltwater Pictures and Videos section, so we can see what is going on first hand.


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## NC Frank

wake49 said:


> Very good so far.
> 
> If you start running the Protein Skimmer now, it might not be collecting anything as there are no real organics built up yet. But this will give the Skimmer time to break in. What kind of skimmer was it again?
> 
> Test the water every day, or at least every other day until you see a steady drop in Nitrites and Ammonia. Nitrates will start to show up, hopefully <5ppm. Running the skimmer might help keep the Nitrate level down. Test salinity when you mix the water, then every once in a while to make sure your losing water to evaporation and not a leak.
> 
> Next wait for a diatom bloom. It looks like dusty, rust colored algae coating the live rock and sand. After this recedes, coraline algae should start to cover the glass and rocks. This is more purple and almost looks flaky.
> 
> After the diatom bloom you will start to see microfauna in the sand, on the rocks and on the glass. This microfauna is copepods, amphipods and small crustaceons of the like. They copepods appear as little white dots that are kind of "jumping" around the glass, and the amphipods look like minature shrimp. When this microfauna has populated your tank, you are then ready for ONE fish.
> 
> Let us know step-by-step and we'll help guide you through the proccess. Also if you have a camera, post pics in the Saltwater Pictures and Videos section, so we can see what is going on first hand.


There appears to be a dozen or so dead (going to guess amphipods) on the surface of my tank. I can assume that these were dead in the live rock or have died off in the tank?

The skimmer is a needle wheel 65 (used as a HOB).


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## NC Frank

Everything but the protein skimmer and the carbon filter have been running for 48 hours. I will start the protein skimmer tomorrow and will begin my water testing. My salinity with the deep six is coming up at 1.30 (I used premixed water so I am sure that I will get a more accurate reading with a refractometer - will ). I will calibrate the refractometer in the morning to get a better reading.


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## wake49

NC Frank said:


> There appears to be a dozen or so dead (going to guess amphipods) on the surface of my tank. I can assume that these were dead in the live rock or have died off in the tank?
> 
> The skimmer is a needle wheel 65 (used as a HOB).


I would think that they are just that, dead amphipods. Can you post a pic? You'll probably want to scoop them of the top of the water...

I used the Needle Wheel 65 on a 46 bow and was very happy with it.


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## Pasfur

I would also encourage you to purchase an alkalinity and calcium test kit at some point in the next week or two. When the diatom bloom occurs, you will want to begin testing for both every week, or twice weekly. Maintaining correct alkalinity and calcium will be beneficial for encouraging coraline algae growth. In addition, these two test are the most valuable tools you have for determining the necessity and size of water changes going forward. 

I aim to maintain my alkalinity at 8 to 12 dkh and calcium at 400 to 460 ppm. This applies to both my 54 reef and 180 FOWLR. I use Kent Marine Superbuffer DKH for alkalinity supplementation, and Kent Marine Liquid Calcium (calcium chloride) for calcium additions. Weekly testing is sufficient on lightly stocked systems.

Another consideration at this point is your sand bed depth. Pictures would be very helpful.


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> I would also encourage you to purchase an alkalinity and calcium test kit at some point in the next week or two. When the diatom bloom occurs, you will want to begin testing for both every week, or twice weekly. Maintaining correct alkalinity and calcium will be beneficial for encouraging coraline algae growth. In addition, these two test are the most valuable tools you have for determining the necessity and size of water changes going forward.
> 
> I aim to maintain my alkalinity at 8 to 12 dkh and calcium at 400 to 460 ppm. This applies to both my 54 reef and 180 FOWLR. I use Kent Marine Superbuffer DKH for alkalinity supplementation, and Kent Marine Liquid Calcium (calcium chloride) for calcium additions. Weekly testing is sufficient on lightly stocked systems.
> 
> Another consideration at this point is your sand bed depth. Pictures would be very helpful.


Sand bed is roughly 1". I was going to do a 4" bed but opted for a 1" for aesthetic reasons. I have both an alkalinity and a calcium test kit (I went through your checklist to purchase all of my supplies before I setup the tank.

I have yet to start my protein skimmer or my carbon filter yet. Should these be running at this point? I have 1 10k white and 1 10k actinic currently running on the tank for 12 hours a day. I still need to calibrate my refractometer. The deep six is measuring salinity at 1.29 (I bought premixed water so I doubt this is accurate). 

As a side note I will be out of the country for 2.5 weeks. I have a friend of mine coming over to care for my discus and angels. All I plan on letting him do is top off the system with RO water.


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## NC Frank

Day 5 after setup and I see this brownish, greenish fur developing on the live rocks. I will post some pictures this evening. Starting a thread about a hitchhiker that found its way into my tank in the inverts section.


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## Pasfur

I would not turn on the skimmer or begin the use of activated carbon until after you return home. The skimmer could be prone to filling very rapidly during the initial stages, and the carbon bag will require the prefilter pads to be rinsed daily. No harm in waiting until you return.

Don't worry about algae or diatom growth at this point. When you get home you can evaluate where everything stands. Patience at this point is critical to long term success.


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> I would not turn on the skimmer or begin the use of activated carbon until after you return home. The skimmer could be prone to filling very rapidly during the initial stages, and the carbon bag will require the prefilter pads to be rinsed daily. No harm in waiting until you return.
> 
> Don't worry about algae or diatom growth at this point. When you get home you can evaluate where everything stands. Patience at this point is critical to long term success.


Will wait until I return (about 3.5 weeks from now) before I start either the skimmer or the carbon filtering. I will have my friend continue to top off the tank with RO water.

Will my hitchhiker blue leg hermit survive? He survived 9 days since purchase... 3 of which were in a covered bucket w/ the live rock that he hitched a ride on that was not being circulated. Just found him today.


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## willieturnip

NC Frank said:


> Will wait until I return (about 3.5 weeks from now) before I start either the skimmer or the carbon filtering. I will have my friend continue to top off the tank with RO water.
> 
> Will my hitchhiker blue leg hermit survive? He survived 9 days since purchase... 3 of which were in a covered bucket w/ the live rock that he hitched a ride on that was not being circulated. Just found him today.


Probably. Crabs are very hardy.


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## NC Frank

Day 6 of setup (10 days since the live rock and "live" sand were purchased). Brown fuzz is now seen growing on the top of the base rock and all over the sand bed. It is not nearly as prevalent as it is on the live rock. There are some less than stellar photos on my aquarium page.


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## wake49

Sounds like Diatoms.


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## NC Frank

wake49 said:


> Sounds like Diatoms.


Wouldn't this be ahead of schedule?


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## NC Frank

NC Frank said:


> Wouldn't this be ahead of schedule?


Anybody?


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## wake49

I can't really tell from the pictures, but it kind of looks like Diatoms.

There is no real "schedule" for a marine tank maturing in a day/week/month sense. It's more of a question as what are the levels in your tank? Did your NitrItes and Ammonia reach zero? Are you showing a NitrAte reading? Are your Alk and Calcium testing in a steady range? (Did you buy Alk and Calcium tests yet?) Is there an abundance of pods jumping on the glass?

With the addition of Live Sand and Cured Live Rock, tanks can have a tendency to get to the Diatom stage faster than you would suspect. I think that you are progressing just fine and post some results of tests so we can tell you where you're at.


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## NC Frank

wake49 said:


> I can't really tell from the pictures, but it kind of looks like Diatoms.
> 
> There is no real "schedule" for a marine tank maturing in a day/week/month sense. It's more of a question as what are the levels in your tank? Did your NitrItes and Ammonia reach zero? Are you showing a NitrAte reading? Are your Alk and Calcium testing in a steady range? (Did you buy Alk and Calcium tests yet?) Is there an abundance of pods jumping on the glass?
> 
> With the addition of Live Sand and Cured Live Rock, tanks can have a tendency to get to the Diatom stage faster than you would suspect. I think that you are progressing just fine and post some results of tests so we can tell you where you're at.


I have 2 API test kits (my freshwater master and my reef master). I will test ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, calcium, carbonate hardness and phosphate when I get home this evening.


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## wake49

Very Good.


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## NC Frank

wake49 said:


> Very Good.


Oh... and high range PH.


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## willieturnip

Sounds like it's right on schedule. My nano had live sand and cured live rock (with half an hours worth of die off) when set up and progressed to this stage a few days quicker than yours.


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## NC Frank

I will be gone from Monday until the 23rd. I have a friend coming over to take care of my discus and top off this tank.

Question... do I need to do anything as far as adding livestock to this tank? If I start seeing coraline algae before I go do I add a couple of CUC members or a small fish or something? If the tank is ready for livestock will having none in there (outside of a single hitchhiker blue hermit crab) cause a negative effect (like leaving a cycled freshwater tank empty which will kill off the beneficial bacteria)?


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## wake49

NC Frank said:


> I will be gone from Monday until the 23rd. I have a friend coming over to take care of my discus and top off this tank.
> 
> Question... do I need to do anything as far as adding livestock to this tank? If I start seeing coraline algae before I go do I add a couple of CUC members or a small fish or something? If the tank is ready for livestock will having none in there (outside of a single hitchhiker blue hermit crab) cause a negative effect (like leaving a cycled freshwater tank empty which will kill off the beneficial bacteria)?


You will be fine leaving that tank as is. It already had life in it, all the beneficial bacteria in the Live Rock and Sand, and also some microfauna that came on the Rock and Sand. Being away for a couple weeks will help you leave the tank alone and not be tempted by an empty tank.


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## NC Frank

wake49 said:


> You will be fine leaving that tank as is. It already had life in it, all the beneficial bacteria in the Live Rock and Sand, and also some microfauna that came on the Rock and Sand. Being away for a couple weeks will help you leave the tank alone and not be tempted by an empty tank.


That is the answer that I was hoping for.


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## NC Frank

Day 7 - more signs of a diatom bloom as the gravel bed is now mostly covered with the brown stuff. The base rock is now showing more and the live rock is covered in it almost completely.

Water test results (All API tests from master and master reef test kits - salinity from a newly calibrated refractometer).

PH - 8.0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5
KH - 8
Salinity - 1.029 (don't know how this is possible as I used premixed water and RO for top offs.


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## onefish2fish

who calibrated the refracto and what was used to do it?


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## NC Frank

onefish2fish said:


> who calibrated the refracto and what was used to do it?


I brought the refractometer and a water sample to my LFS who calibrated it with a solution that they had for this purpose. They tested the water with two of their refractometers and with my new one and the results all came back the same post calibration.


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## wake49

NC Frank said:


> Day 7 - more signs of a diatom bloom as the gravel bed is now mostly covered with the brown stuff. The base rock is now showing more and the live rock is covered in it almost completely.
> 
> Water test results (All API tests from master and master reef test kits - salinity from a newly calibrated refractometer).
> 
> PH - 8.0
> Ammonia - 0
> Nitrite - 0
> Nitrate - 5
> KH - 8
> Salinity - 1.029 (don't know how this is possible as I used premixed water and RO for top offs.


Where's the Calcium results?


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## Pasfur

If you are seeing a diatom bloom, it would be the perfect time to begin the alkalinity and calcium testing. Proper levels will help to encourage coraline, and reduce the risk of cynobacteria, hair, and thread algaes.


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## NC Frank

I will do the calcium and alk tests tonight.


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## wake49

NC Frank said:


> Day 7 - more signs of a diatom bloom as the gravel bed is now mostly covered with the brown stuff. The base rock is now showing more and the live rock is covered in it almost completely.
> 
> Water test results (All API tests from master and master reef test kits - salinity from a newly calibrated refractometer).
> 
> PH - 8.0
> Ammonia - 0
> Nitrite - 0
> Nitrate - 5
> KH - 8
> Salinity - 1.029 (don't know how this is possible as I used premixed water and RO for top offs.


I see a KH reading of 8 here. Is that from a Carbonate Hardness Test? If so, this is in the range, but in the lower part of the range. Test kits suggest 7-12 dKH; I try to keep mine between 8-12 dKH.


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> If you are seeing a diatom bloom, it would be the perfect time to begin the alkalinity and calcium testing. Proper levels will help to encourage coraline, and reduce the risk of cynobacteria, hair, and thread algaes.


I'll do calcium, alkalinity and phsophate testing this evening.


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## NC Frank

wake49 said:


> I see a KH reading of 8 here. Is that from a Carbonate Hardness Test? If so, this is in the range, but in the lower part of the range. Test kits suggest 7-12 dKH; I try to keep mine between 8-12 dKH.


Yes. It is from a carb hardness test.


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## wake49

NC Frank said:


> Yes. It is from a carb hardness test.


Ok. Good. That is the test for Alkalinity. What brand? API? Did that Reef Master Kit come with a Calcium Test?


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## NC Frank

wake49 said:


> Ok. Good. That is the test for Alkalinity. What brand? API? Did that Reef Master Kit come with a Calcium Test?


Yes it did. Unfortunately my new kit only had 2 of the result cards (phosphate and carb hardness. Trying to figure out if I should go back to the store or call API.


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## onefish2fish

NC Frank said:


> I brought the refractometer and a water sample to my LFS who calibrated it with a solution that they had for this purpose. They tested the water with two of their refractometers and with my new one and the results all came back the same post calibration.


may want to just re-check that again with an outside party. if the LFS is using their calibrating solution on your refracto as well as theirs ofcourse they are all going to come back with the same readings.


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## NC Frank

Day 11 - Water test results (All API tests from master and master reef test kits - salinity from a newly calibrated refractometer).

PH - 8.2
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5
KH - 8
Salinity - 1.030 
Phosphate- .5
Calcium - 500 ppm
temp - 77.6

Diatom bloom has taken over my tank big time. It has covered my base rock, is out of control on my live rock and sand and is now on my skimmer and power heads.


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## NC Frank

onefish2fish said:


> may want to just re-check that again with an outside party. if the LFS is using their calibrating solution on your refracto as well as theirs ofcourse they are all going to come back with the same readings.


Mine read at 1.30 today on mine and a friend's.


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## NC Frank

NC Frank said:


> Mine read at 1.30 today on mine and a friend's.


That should read 1.030


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## Pasfur

NC Frank said:


> Diatom bloom has taken over my tank big time. It has covered my base rock, is out of control on my live rock and sand and is now on my skimmer and power heads.


About what we would expect. This will last for a week or two, and then quickly disappear without any action on your part.


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## NC Frank

Should I start doing very small water changes with RO water to drop the salinity down a little? Like maybe a gallon here or there?

I also leave in the AM for 2.5 weeks. Should my friend do anything other than top the tank off with the RO water I brought home?


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## Pasfur

I would have your friend top off, nothing more.

If your water is really 1.030, then yes, you need to do water changes to lower the salinity. I would personally lower it with 10% water changes, but others might agree to do it slower.


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> I would have your friend top off, nothing more.
> 
> If your water is really 1.030, then yes, you need to do water changes to lower the salinity. I would personally lower it with 10% water changes, but others might agree to do it slower.


Could the water change wait until I return? The one inhabitant of the tank seems to be doing just fine. It is kind of amusing seeing a blue legged hermit crab have the tank to himself.


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## Kellsindell

You really need the salinity to be lower then 1.028 sooner then later. Was your tank tested with it fully topped off or was this with some water evaporated?


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## NC Frank

Kellsindell said:


> You really need the salinity to be lower then 1.028 sooner then later. Was your tank tested with it fully topped off or was this with some water evaporated?


Fully topped off (well, what I consider fully topped off. I left about 1.5" from the top so I can bring up the water level to dilute the salt a bit. 

I haven't seen my tank for almost a week. My buddy who is taking care of my discus is reporting that the diatom bloom remains out of control.


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## wake49

NC Frank said:


> Fully topped off (well, what I consider fully topped off. I left about 1.5" from the top so I can bring up the water level to dilute the salt a bit.


Why not just add 1.5" of Fresh water? Why are you leaving this 1.5" at the top?


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## NC Frank

wake49 said:


> Why not just add 1.5" of Fresh water? Why are you leaving this 1.5" at the top?


The highest point that the protein skimmer is sitting at is 1/2" below the surface. I believe the water line shuld be 1" below that based on the instructions.


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## CamryDS

a previous mention was that you added premix RO water to your tank as a top off. the problem is there -- you should only use fresh RO water when topping off. From what I understand you just added more salt into the mix.

pasfur is right about the water changes, change the water 10% at a time wait probably 12-24 hours before testing your salinity and then add more fresh RO water as needed to bring your gravity/salinity down to 1.021-1.025 anywhere around there should be okay.


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## NC Frank

CamryDS said:


> a previous mention was that you added premix RO water to your tank as a top off. the problem is there -- you should only use fresh RO water when topping off. From what I understand you just added more salt into the mix.
> 
> pasfur is right about the water changes, change the water 10% at a time wait probably 12-24 hours before testing your salinity and then add more fresh RO water as needed to bring your gravity/salinity down to 1.021-1.025 anywhere around there should be okay.


That is incorrect... I used premixed water to fill the tank and top off with RO water...


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## CamryDS

NC Frank said:


> That is incorrect... I used premixed water to fill the tank and top off with RO water...



my mistake -- I reread it again. If you're using RO to top off you should only be replacing. no idea how your salinity is that high.

but re-testing the water a few hours after the water change may help.


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## NC Frank

CamryDS said:


> my mistake -- I reread it again. If you're using RO to top off you should only be replacing. no idea how your salinity is that high.
> 
> but re-testing the water a few hours after the water change may help.


The premixed water came that high from a LFS. Never going to buy water from him again.

Good news is that my friend just reported that the diatom bloom is starting to lesson.


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## CamryDS

NC Frank said:


> The premixed water came that high from a LFS. Never going to buy water from him again.
> 
> Good news is that my friend just reported that the diatom bloom is starting to lesson.



Ahh great, I've been reading a lot of threads off of the forums and it's helped me understand a lot of what's going on and what to expect.

you can probably still get the premix water from there, but if it's 1.030 then you most likely can just dilute a bit more with RO water and re-test with the hydrometer.


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## NC Frank

Ok... 

Day 31 since setup. Diatom bloom is dying off. I have 100s of dead little white things floating on top of the water.

I will start the protein skimmer and carbon filtering tomorrow.

I have decided on a fowlr since I will be moving at some point in 2010 and I will be getting a much larger tank than the 46 I will not bother with corals at this time.

The one tank resident (hitchhiker blue hermit crab) is doing good still.

I got the salinity down to 1.024 with about a 16% water change which was broken up into 2 smaller water changes

Will do full water tests tomorrow and start up the skimmer.

I don't see any major change to the base rock other than it getting slightly more brown... I will take pictures and do a full water test tomorrow.


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## Pasfur

NC Frank said:


> Ok...
> 
> Day 31 since setup. Diatom bloom is dying off. I have 100s of dead little white things floating on top of the water.
> .


Overall progress is exactly as anticipated. Very good. On these dead little white things, you need to sypon them out or use a brine net to remove them from the surface.

Does you water currently, or did it at any point, have a smell? If it had a strong odor then I recommend doing a 10 gallon water change on 3 consecutive days. I suspect this only because of the floating white dead things.8) You had a lot of die off from your live rock, and I suspect pollutant levels because very high.


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> Overall progress is exactly as anticipated. Very good. On these dead little white things, you need to sypon them out or use a brine net to remove them from the surface.
> 
> Does you water currently, or did it at any point, have a smell? If it had a strong odor then I recommend doing a 10 gallon water change on 3 consecutive days. I suspect this only because of the floating white dead things.8) You had a lot of die off from your live rock, and I suspect pollutant levels because very high.


There was a very slight odor but it just so happened that this was prior to me doing 2 small water changes on consecutive days to correct salinity. I have enough salt water mixed to do 2 more consecutive water changes (though there is no smell at the moment). 

I have a brine shrimp net that I will use to clean up the excess floaters (I got a majority out during the water changes).

I just turned on the protein skimmer and all the foam that is being produced is currently white though I anticipate this may have to break in for a day or three. I will do a full water test tonight.

BTW... since I plan on this being a FOWLR until I can setup a larger tank what water parameters am I looking for?

Am I ready to add a cleaning crew member or three yet? I also have a friend who told me that it wouldn't be a bad idea to add 5 pounds of live rock from his system (been running for 5 years) and add a few snails.

I have a couple of small green tube looking things growing out of the original live rock. The base rock isn't close to blending in to the live rock yet.

How far am I from being able to add a couple of cleaning crew members?
How far am I from being able to add the first of the fish?
What should I expect next?


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## terryap

if your freinds is offering you some of his 5 year established live rock...take it!!!! providing his water conditions are of good quality, as for the CUC, I would say you are definately ready!
What I experienced after the brown bloom was some green bloom( but not too bad, just a bit)
as for the fish, you will have to get some water readings on here, but sounding great so far!


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## NC Frank

terryap said:


> if your freinds is offering you some of his 5 year established live rock...take it!!!! providing his water conditions are of good quality, as for the CUC, I would say you are definately ready!
> What I experienced after the brown bloom was some green bloom( but not too bad, just a bit)
> as for the fish, you will have to get some water readings on here, but sounding great so far!


I still have some of the brown bloom but it has died back substantially. There is some green bloom popping up but nowhere near as bad as the brown bloom was.

I checked on the protein skimmer and the cup has a decent amount of yellowish/brownish film beginning to fill the cup. So much for 3 days for it to start working. 

Pictures and water results coming soon (probably when the wife and baby are sleeping).


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## terryap

oh great! can't wait to see them, what type of skimmer do you have again? sounds decent


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## NC Frank

terryap said:


> oh great! can't wait to see them, what type of skimmer do you have again? sounds decent


Super Skimmer Needle Wheel 65. It is the same one Wake used when he had the same size tank (46 bow) that I am currently setting up.  He was very happy with his and from the brief amount of time I have been running it I can see why.


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## terryap

great, can't wait to see some pics posted !


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## Pasfur

I agree with TerryAnn. Also, it sounds like you are ready to add a few CUC and fish! 

This is a key step. It is very difficult to do emotionally, but you need to be VERY selective in purchasing fish. If you suspect that there is anything wrong with a fish, then wait for another. In fact, if another fish in the same aquarium or central system is showing signs of disease, then don't buy fish from that system. Wait. All of your patience and hard work will pay off if you take it very cautiously.

A few tips. Don't buy fish that....
1) are not eating.
2) are breathing heavily.
3) have any black or white spots on the skin or gills.
4) have cloudiness or other damage around the eyes.
5) have been at the pet shop for less than 5 days, 7 days to be extra safe.
6) you have not researched on your own, away from the advise of the LFS employee.
7) are swimming head up to the top of the tank, then head down to the bottom, over and over again.
8) are swimming non stop into a water current.
9) do not swim or show curiosity as you watch the display.
10) you have even the slightest question about the care of the species.

If you follow these guidelines, you should eliminate about 75% of the fish at the LFS as potential purchases, and give yourself a much higher opportunity for success.

Even following these rules, I usually have the LFS hold the fish for 48 hours so that I can pick it up later. I just tell them that I am not heading home today, but would like to pick the fish up at a later time. I have never had an LFS refuse to hold a fish. This gives me the opportunity to observe the fish again, and change my mind on the purchase if the fish is not showing steady signs of good health. Granted, this won't work with small fish that are a dime a dozen, because the LFS will expect you to pick out another individual, but it will work on any fish that is not readily available each visit.


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## JohnnyD

NC Frank said:


> ...
> Am I ready to add a cleaning crew member or three yet? I also have a friend who told me that it wouldn't be a bad idea to add 5 pounds of live rock from his system (been running for 5 years) and add a few snails....


The guy at the LFS told me it is best to add live rock all at once. He said introducing more live rock to the system at a later date could cause your system to start its cycle over and I would have to wait another month or so for maturation to be complete. From the previous responses posted by terry ann and pasfur I'm guessing this might be incorrect but has anyone heard anything about/like this? Just curious where he was coming from.


----------



## terryap

if the rock is fully cured, and is going a short distance into your tank, I don't see a problem? at least I haven't had a problem, maybe adding large amounts at one time is a different story, when I add more live rock, I don't usually add more than 5-10 lbs at a time, and it is fully cured rock, LFS to my tank is about 10 mins, so I don't think the die off, if any would be significant enough to start another cycle?
but I am not 100% sure, just going by what I have done, and I haven't had any ammonia spikes at all


----------



## Pasfur

JohnnyD said:


> The guy at the LFS told me it is best to add live rock all at once. He said introducing more live rock to the system at a later date could cause your system to start its cycle over and I would have to wait another month or so for maturation to be complete. From the previous responses posted by terry ann and pasfur I'm guessing this might be incorrect but has anyone heard anything about/like this? Just curious where he was coming from.


The guy at the LFS would be correct if the amount of newly added rock was a large amount of rock, or if the rock were uncured. Otherwise, he sounds like the new car salesman telling you how reliable a vehicle is and then recommending a warranty.


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> I agree with TerryAnn. Also, it sounds like you are ready to add a few CUC and fish!
> 
> This is a key step. It is very difficult to do emotionally, but you need to be VERY selective in purchasing fish. If you suspect that there is anything wrong with a fish, then wait for another. In fact, if another fish in the same aquarium or central system is showing signs of disease, then don't buy fish from that system. Wait. All of your patience and hard work will pay off if you take it very cautiously.
> 
> A few tips. Don't buy fish that....
> 1) are not eating.
> 2) are breathing heavily.
> 3) have any black or white spots on the skin or gills.
> 4) have cloudiness or other damage around the eyes.
> 5) have been at the pet shop for less than 5 days, 7 days to be extra safe.
> 6) you have not researched on your own, away from the advise of the LFS employee.
> 7) are swimming head up to the top of the tank, then head down to the bottom, over and over again.
> 8) are swimming non stop into a water current.
> 9) do not swim or show curiosity as you watch the display.
> 10) you have even the slightest question about the care of the species.
> 
> If you follow these guidelines, you should eliminate about 75% of the fish at the LFS as potential purchases, and give yourself a much higher opportunity for success.
> 
> Even following these rules, I usually have the LFS hold the fish for 48 hours so that I can pick it up later. I just tell them that I am not heading home today, but would like to pick the fish up at a later time. I have never had an LFS refuse to hold a fish. This gives me the opportunity to observe the fish again, and change my mind on the purchase if the fish is not showing steady signs of good health. Granted, this won't work with small fish that are a dime a dozen, because the LFS will expect you to pick out another individual, but it will work on any fish that is not readily available each visit.


My LFS has been holding a pair of false percs, a diamond goby and a small angelfish. So I know the fish have been there for a bit (the clowns have been there for 4 weeks since I told them to hold for me). I obviously will not add all of them at once and this is if my water checks out to be fine still. Give me 5 minutes and I will post some pics of what the diatom bloom looks currently.


----------



## NC Frank

Full Tank Shot:










Live Rock:



















Base Rock and sand showing diatom:










Protein Skimmer:


----------



## terryap

looking good, how much liverock do you have in there now?


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> looking good, how much liverock do you have in there now?


Originally 15 pounds of live and probably close to 30 pounds of base rock from Marco Rocks.


----------



## terryap

Plus you will be adding the 5 lbs from your freind right? those marco rocks look great, how much liverock are you planning on having total?
by the way, which fish are you planning on adding first? going by your list, I would add the 2 clowns first, geat little hardy fish, one of the best fish (besides damsels) to add as a first fish to a new aquarium IMO


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> Plus you will be adding the 5 lbs from your freind right? those marco rocks look great, how much liverock are you planning on having total?
> by the way, which fish are you planning on adding first? going by your list, I would add the 2 clowns first, geat little hardy fish, one of the best fish (besides damsels) to add as a first fish to a new aquarium IMO


The goal was 50 pounds total live rock. Will add the clowns first pending my water still tests out OK


----------



## Pasfur

NC Frank said:


> My LFS has been holding a pair of false percs, a diamond goby and a small angelfish.


A small Angelfish? What type?


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> A small Angelfish? What type?


The orange striped one you recommended (Eibli). Showed my wife all of the angels that could live in a 46 and that was her favorite.


----------



## NC Frank

Water Parameters this morning:

Temp: 77.2
SG - 1.026 on my refractometer (refractometer reads ro-di at 0 and my American Marine Calibration solution at precisely n - the solution itself is 1.0264)
Calcium - 440
PH - 8.4
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - <5
KH - 8.0
Phosphate - .25

Did a slight water change with RODI to get it down to approximately 1.0245. No other levels were effected.


----------



## NC Frank

Currently dripping the following:

1 black false perc
1 false perc
5 scarlet hermit crabs
1 Mexican Turbo snail
1 emerald crab


----------



## NC Frank

Started the carbon filtering also. Emperor 280. Removed everything but the activated carbon. Will rinse it every day or so.


----------



## terryap

anxious to see some pictures! I love black clowns, really sharp looking, not crazy about the crabs though, hope you got them extra empty shells, or they will eventually attack and kill the snails for their shells. I saw one try to go after my snail once, I took the net to knock him down...lol


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> anxious to see some pictures! I love black clowns, really sharp looking, not crazy about the crabs though, hope you got them extra empty shells, or they will eventually attack and kill the snails for their shells. I saw one try to go after my snail once, I took the net to knock him down...lol


I have 2x shells for each scarlet hermit. Any snail I get will be smaller than these hermits so there shouldn't be an issue with them killing for shells. Going to order a bunch of shells online too and toss them behind the rock structure.


----------



## NC Frank

Really poor picture quality. I will get my wife to take some with her camera when she gets home from work tonight. Takings pics with a bow front is challenging.


----------



## terryap

well through all the blur, the fish look nice!....lol


----------



## NC Frank

Dripped everything in the same bucket (they all came from the same system and I live less than 5 minutes from the LFS - otherwise it would have been different buckets). Just shy of 2.5 hours to have 75% of the water be tank water. I start with a real slow drip for 45 minutes and slightly increase the flow periodically until for the last 20 minutes it is a fast drip.


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> well through all the blur, the fish look nice!....lol


It has to be because it is a bow front. Look at the pics of my discus tank for a comparison.


----------



## terryap

what if you stand back a bit? would it be a little more clear?


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> what if you stand back a bit? would it be a little more clear?


Same Result. I will fool around with it later.


----------



## NC Frank

I did the first feeding since they were added to the tank a few hours ago... both clowns attack the pellets (Hikari Marine S) as soon as they hit the water. I have witnessed the orange clown eating the diatom bloom also. All 5 scarlet hermit crabs are very active. The emerald Crab has found a hole in one of the pieces of live rock and all you see are his claws coming out of it to scrape up some food. The initial blue legged hermit crab is still doing well. The Mexican Turbo Snail fell onto his back already (set him the right way). He immediately tried to climb the same rock that he fell off of earlier. I have a feeling I will be filpping him over multiple times a day.

What should my target cleanup crew for a 46 gallon?

Currently:
5 scarlet hermits
1 blue legged hermit
1 Mexican Turbo Snail
1 Emerald Crab


----------



## mrdemin

Well, after reading about saltwater tanks and trying to digest what I read, its quiet a surprise to me that this tank was populated a month after set up! I'm glad everything is going smooth and can't wait to see some clear pictures! I'm sure it looks great, after seeing your freshwater stock.


----------



## NC Frank

mrdemin said:


> Well, after reading about saltwater tanks and trying to digest what I read, its quiet a surprise to me that this tank was populated a month after set up! I'm glad everything is going smooth and can't wait to see some clear pictures! I'm sure it looks great, after seeing your freshwater stock.


I'm a little shocked myself but I defer to Terry and especially Pasfur. 

It will be slowly stocked from this point forward. If my parameters remain stable for a few weeks I will expand my cleaning crew and add my diamond goby. If it remains stable a few weeks after that I will start to think about adding the angel I want.


----------



## terryap

just be sure to check your levels now that you have added livestock, good plan above to wait a few weeks between each fish addition


----------



## Pasfur

mrdemin said:


> Well, after reading about saltwater tanks and trying to digest what I read, its quiet a surprise to me that this tank was populated a month after set up! I'm glad everything is going smooth and can't wait to see some clear pictures! I'm sure it looks great, after seeing your freshwater stock.


Live Rock is what makes this possible. Many people becoming confused by the concept "cycling" versus the idea of an aquarium being "mature". This aquarium cycled very quickly because of the presence of live rock, and is capable of breaking down any toxic ammonia or nitrite compounds that become present.

The maturing of this aquarium is still in process. The diatom bloom will continue to recede and be replaced by coraline algae growth. The sand bed will continue to mature and a lush population of amphipods and copepods will spread. Nitrate levels will actually drop to near zero, a sign that the denitrification ability of the sand bed has become established. 

Each of these steps is critical to the overall stability of the aquarium environment, and is a big reason why so many people tell you to take it slow with saltwater. Until this point, only very durable fish should be added.

The livestock choice made here is perfect. Clownfish are very easy to keep and a perfect choice at this point. 

On the subject of an Eibli Angelfish (Centropyge eibli), this is a fish that you will probably want to wait on for now. They are a great fish, but I would not add this species until the aquarium matures further.


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> Live Rock is what makes this possible. Many people becoming confused by the concept "cycling" versus the idea of an aquarium being "mature". This aquarium cycled very quickly because of the presence of live rock, and is capable of breaking down any toxic ammonia or nitrite compounds that become present.
> 
> The maturing of this aquarium is still in process. The diatom bloom will continue to recede and be replaced by coraline algae growth. The sand bed will continue to mature and a lush population of amphipods and copepods will spread. Nitrate levels will actually drop to near zero, a sign that the denitrification ability of the sand bed has become established.
> 
> Each of these steps is critical to the overall stability of the aquarium environment, and is a big reason why so many people tell you to take it slow with saltwater. Until this point, only very durable fish should be added.
> 
> The livestock choice made here is perfect. Clownfish are very easy to keep and a perfect choice at this point.
> 
> On the subject of an Eibli Angelfish (Centropyge eibli), this is a fish that you will probably want to wait on for now. They are a great fish, but I would not add this species until the aquarium matures further.


If my water tests out fine over the next 2 weeks I will add a diamond goby and a couple of snails. If after 5 weeks from now everything checks out I will add my next fish and the remainder of my CUC (still undecided as to which fish will go in next). I am probably 8 weeks or so out of adding an angel (if everything is stable and the tank is maturing as expected). My last fish will be a mandarin goby... I suspect my tank to be ready either late 2010 or early 2011 for one of those. 

Thanks again for all the assistance.


----------



## Pasfur

NC Frank said:


> My last fish will be a mandarin goby... I suspect my tank to be ready either late 2010 or early 2011 for one of those.
> Thanks again for all the assistance.


A 46 gallon tank would not be capable of supporting a Mandarin Goby, regardless of how long the tank matures. In this tank size the supply of copepods and amphipods would quickly be consumed and the Mandarine would starve.

Unless of course, you looked at adding a refugium. ;-)


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> A 46 gallon tank would not be capable of supporting a Mandarin Goby, regardless of how long the tank matures. In this tank size the supply of copepods and amphipods would quickly be consumed and the Mandarine would starve.
> 
> Unless of course, you looked at adding a refugium. ;-)


I was planning on continuously adding copepods to feed the mandarin once the tank is mature.  But within a year I will most likely be switching to a much larger tank.


----------



## NC Frank

Update:

All water parameters remained the same. 

One of the larger pieces of live rock is almost completely free of diatom and is showing some real nice purple coralline coverage.

Now the important stuff... both of the clowns are huge eaters which is a good sign. They are very active and appear to be inseparable. The smaller black one follows the orange and they are always right next to each other.

4 of the 5 of the scarlet hermit crabs are very active. I can't find the 5th (my fault... too many empty shells scattered in the tank and I am not moving all of them to find the hermit crab... though I have no reason to believe he isn't doing well also). The original blue legged hermit is doing well also.

I have had to turn the Mexican Turbo Snail over twice. Currently his shell is righted but he isn't that active.

The emerald crab is a cleaning machine. He has been a lot of fun to watch.


----------



## terryap

did you manage to get any better pics?


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> did you manage to get any better pics?


Not particularly. Going to have my wife take them. These clowns are constant motion so they always come back blurry.


----------



## NC Frank

Water Parameters as of a few minutes ago:

Temp: 77.4
SG - 1.024 
Calcium - 440
PH - 8.4
Ammonia - .25 or less
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
KH - 8.0
Phosphate - .25

Both fish look fine and are eating like little pigs. All 7 crabs (5 scarlet hermit, 1 blue hermit crab, 1 emerald) are very active and the Turbo Snail is doing well.

I will monitor the ammonia closely and test again tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## NC Frank

I am questioning if the ammonia reading was correct yesterday. I am showing no ammonia or nitrite with 5 nitrate.

All inhabitants are doing great. Posted a picture thread now that I have some decent pictures:

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/saltwater-fish-pictures-videos/new-tank-pictures-34430/


----------



## 05pwpdc5

Great looking clowns, good luck


----------



## NC Frank

Temp: 77.6
SG - 1.025 
Calcium - 40
PH - 8.4
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
KH - 8.0
Phosphate - .25

All inhabitants are doing good. The next fish in the tank will be a diamond goby that is currently in QT.


----------



## terryap

Glad to hear all is going well !


----------



## mrdemin

Hope the calcium was a type-o !


----------



## Pasfur

NC Frank said:


> Calcium - 40
> KH - 8.0


Was this 400 ppm calcium? If so, you've hit the point where it is time to add both a buffer and a calcium supplement. Alkalinity is at the lower point and calcium at the lower point in the target range.


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> Was this 400 ppm calcium? If so, you've hit the point where it is time to add both a buffer and a calcium supplement. Alkalinity is at the lower point and calcium at the lower point in the target range.


That was a typo. It should have read 420 and I apparently dropped the 2  . It was 440 on all previous tests performed. Any advice that you can offer about buffering for calcium would be appreciated. I have Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH.


----------



## Pasfur

NC Frank said:


> That was a typo. It should have read 420 and I apparently dropped the 2  . It was 440 on all previous tests performed. Any advice that you can offer about buffering for calcium would be appreciated. I have Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH.


420 / 400, same basic level. You will see calcium drop slowly and probably have to add a calcium supplement weekly to maintain the calcium levels. It is extremely important that this is a regular part of your aquarium routine. I use Kent Marine Liquid Calcium supplement (calcium chloride). Concentrated Liquid Calcium - 8 oz. | Kalkwasser, Calcium, Carbonates | Water Treatments & Additives | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

In addition to adding calcium directly, you will also need to add a buffer. Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH is what I use. When your alkalinity is at the lower end of the scale, buffer. Same with calcium, when it reads at the lower end of your desired range, add calcium.

I posted a deeper explanation of alkalinity and calcium here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...ting-important-every-marine-33079/#post282311


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> 420 / 400, same basic level. You will see calcium drop slowly and probably have to add a calcium supplement weekly to maintain the calcium levels. It is extremely important that this is a regular part of your aquarium routine. I use Kent Marine Liquid Calcium supplement (calcium chloride). Concentrated Liquid Calcium - 8 oz. | Kalkwasser, Calcium, Carbonates | Water Treatments & Additives | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
> 
> In addition to adding calcium directly, you will also need to add a buffer. Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH is what I use. When your alkalinity is at the lower end of the scale, buffer. Same with calcium, when it reads at the lower end of your desired range, add calcium.
> 
> I posted a deeper explanation of alkalinity and calcium here:
> http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...ting-important-every-marine-33079/#post282311


Excellent read. I will purchase some Kent liquid calcium on the way home today.


----------



## NC Frank

Sorry for the long winded post!

Current Stock List:
2 False Perc Clowns - 1 black and 1 misbar
1 diamond goby
5 scarlet hermits
1 blue legged hermit
1 emerald crab
1 turbo snail

Test Results for Saturday and Sunday:

PH - 8.3
Temp - 77.6
Calcium - 460 
Hardness - 10
Amonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Phosphate - <5
Nitrate - <5

Feeding:
I alternate between Formula 1, Formula 2 frozen foods and Marine S pellets. I will start giving mysis and some other foods as a treat.

I have started dosing both calcium and kent super dkh.

All fish are doing fine. Introduced the diamond goby from QT. 

How long should I wait before buying the next fish and a few more CUC members? The fish would be QTd for 2 weeks before addition.

Some things I have noticed:

My protein skimmer has slowed down a bit. Still producing some yellowish/brownish film but nowhere near the same rate.

Diatom bloom has been completely gone for several days.

One of the original pieces of live rock is almost entirely encrusted with coralline algae.

Second of the original pieces of live rock is starting to have some nice coralline algae cover.

Base rock slowly starting to show some small spots of coralline algae.

Bright green algae is appearing on some small spots on my glass and on my base rocks. 

My clowns destroy any food I give them. Should I be worrying about my CUC and goby getting enough? Should I start target feeding my emerald crab and diamond goby? Emerald is grazing like crazy but I want to be sure everybody has enough of everything.


----------



## Pasfur

Every small detail that you posted is exactly what I would expect to see. Everything is great. I see no problem buying another fish for Q. (3 weeks in Q would be nice)

The skimmer is also fine. It is normal for the skimate to reduce after a couple weeks of "catch up". You will find periods of time where the skimmer produces more than others.


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> Every small detail that you posted is exactly what I would expect to see. Everything is great. I see no problem buying another fish for Q. (3 weeks in Q would be nice)
> 
> The skimmer is also fine. It is normal for the skimate to reduce after a couple weeks of "catch up". You will find periods of time where the skimmer produces more than others.


Excellent. I will let you know what I decide on for a next fish.

What do you think about target feeding the goby and crab. The goby doesn't seem to be hunting for food much at all. Very active (am a little concerned that he has made the entire rock structure his domain. He pops out all over the place. Will this become an issue when more fish that are looking for a place in the rocks to call home are added). I have seen him eat some of the frozen foods that hit the bottom and I do see him occassionally sift the sand. It must be one of those things where he is actually eating enough but I am not seeing it. He is a smaller goby... just shy of 2 inches from head to tail.


----------



## Pasfur

I see no problem with the current feeding routine. You could try to target feed, but I doubt it is necessary. The Goby is sifting the sand for a lot of its nutritional needs, and like you said, it is very small. Just keep a good eye on it and make sure it is in fact feeding.


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> I see no problem with the current feeding routine. You could try to target feed, but I doubt it is necessary. The Goby is sifting the sand for a lot of its nutritional needs, and like you said, it is very small. Just keep a good eye on it and make sure it is in fact feeding.


Well he was eating in QT and he definitely got a tiny bit of the formula 1 and 2 a couple of times with me watching since he was moved to the display.


----------



## NC Frank

NC Frank said:


> Well he was eating in QT and he definitely got a tiny bit of the formula 1 and 2 a couple of times with me watching since he was moved to the display.


Funny how these things work out. Fed Formula 1 tonight and a good bit made it to the bottom and the goby ate like a pig. The emerald crab even came out to the open and picked a few pieces off the sand.


----------



## terryap

ok, so when do the pics follow????


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> ok, so when do the pics follow????


I'll get my wife to take some now.


----------



## terryap

Can't wait to see, seems to be coming along GREAT!


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> Can't wait to see, seems to be coming along GREAT!


Put a couple in the pic thread.


----------



## terryap

saw them, great pics!! looking really good!


----------



## NC Frank

terryap said:


> saw them, great pics!! looking really good!


Thanks. As you obviously know patience is key. Going to wait a couple of weeks and then add something to my QT tank. No rush to see it fully stocked. Slow and steady wins the race when it comes to marine tanks.  

This site offers some great resources. I would be lost without a few of the posters here and they are a better resource than any book that I have read.


----------



## terryap

agreed! once you pick, don't forget to post!


----------



## NC Frank

How often should I do a partial water change on this tank? How much water should I change with each water change?


----------



## Pasfur

NC Frank said:


> How often should I do a partial water change on this tank? How much water should I change with each water change?


You would think this question is easy to answer, but everyone has a different approach. I personally do very small water changes on my reef, say 2% per week, unless I see issues in my alkalinity and calcium testing that give me a reason to consider larger scale water changes. 

Many people will argue for larger water changes, and other do almost no water changes at all. You will find a wide variety of methods that people find successful. The key is to find what works for you and judge from the visible response of your animals what you feel is best.


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> You would think this question is easy to answer, but everyone has a different approach. I personally do very small water changes on my reef, say 2% per week, unless I see issues in my alkalinity and calcium testing that give me a reason to consider larger scale water changes.
> 
> Many people will argue for larger water changes, and other do almost no water changes at all. You will find a wide variety of methods that people find successful. The key is to find what works for you and judge from the visible response of your animals what you feel is best.


I was thinking of doing 5% every two weeks and change the carbon at that time.


----------



## NC Frank

Current info:

PH 8.2
Temp 78.6
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - <10 (Water change scheduled for tomorrow)
Calcium - 400 (Dosing Calcium tonight)
Carb. hardness - 8 (Dosing super dkh tonight)

Livestock:
2 False perc (1 black and 1 orange)
1 Diamond Goby
9 Scarlet Hermit Crabs (just added 4)
1 Blue Legged Hermit Crab (original hitchhiker)
3 Mexican Turbo Snails (just added 2)

I notice some bright green algae on the base rock and the glass and a little red hair algae (burgundy color) on the live rock. Will the Mexican turbo snails eat this off the rocks? I am a little confused as to what could be causing it. My light is on for 12 hours, I don't believe I am over feeding (protein skimmer not filling up that quickly at all), and I only use RODI for top off and salt water mixed in RODI. What could be causing this?

The tank has been running for 7 weeks at this point and I am not seeing much of anything growing in the tank other than some coralline and some nuisance algae. What should I be seeing?

What other snails should I add to my CUC and how many? Am I fine with 9 scarlets and a similar number of blue legged hermits or is 18 hermits total too much for a 46?


----------



## Pasfur

NC Frank said:


> Nitrate - <10 (Water change scheduled for tomorrow)
> Calcium - 400 (Dosing Calcium tonight)
> Carb. hardness - 8 (Dosing super dkh tonight)
> 
> I notice some bright green algae on the base rock and the glass and a little red hair algae (burgundy color) on the live rock. Will the Mexican turbo snails eat this off the rocks? I am a little confused as to what could be causing it. My light is on for 12 hours, I don't believe I am over feeding (protein skimmer not filling up that quickly at all), and I only use RODI for top off and salt water mixed in RODI. What could be causing this?


I think your CUC is enough at this time. I would not add more.

A comment on the tank readings. Everything looks great. You are correct it is time to dose calcium and buffer. By the way, this is something to recognize. Water changes and nitrates are not in any way connected. I see this all the time, people give a nitrate reading and then post when their next water changes is scheduled. But the 2 things are completely independent of each other. You are changing water in a marine system to replenish trace elements that are depleted. You can't test for trace elements, which makes the discuss of water changes an interesting topic. You really have to judge how often to change water by using your eyes as a test kit. ;-) You will start to see how things respond to water changes, and adjust your schedule accordingly. On that subject, I like your plan of 5% every other week, along with replacing carbon. 

As for the green and red algae growth. You aren't doing anything wrong. There will always be uneaten foods and other waste products that are broken down and contribute to the nutrient load. Some algae growth is almost impossible to not have. You have a living system and everything goes somewhere.

About the protein skimmer, can you post some pictures of the skimate and neck. Lets see if it is doing what it should be.


----------



## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> I think your CUC is enough at this time. I would not add more.
> 
> A comment on the tank readings. Everything looks great. You are correct it is time to dose calcium and buffer. By the way, this is something to recognize. Water changes and nitrates are not in any way connected. I see this all the time, people give a nitrate reading and then post when their next water changes is scheduled. But the 2 things are completely independent of each other. You are changing water in a marine system to replenish trace elements that are depleted. You can't test for trace elements, which makes the discuss of water changes an interesting topic. You really have to judge how often to change water by using your eyes as a test kit. ;-) You will start to see how things respond to water changes, and adjust your schedule accordingly. On that subject, I like your plan of 5% every other week, along with replacing carbon.
> 
> As for the green and red algae growth. You aren't doing anything wrong. There will always be uneaten foods and other waste products that are broken down and contribute to the nutrient load. Some algae growth is almost impossible to not have. You have a living system and everything goes somewhere.
> 
> About the protein skimmer, can you post some pictures of the skimate and neck. Lets see if it is doing what it should be.


I just emptied it so I will post some pics tomorrow. I appreciate all the help that you and the others here have provided.

BTW I bought 9 scarlet hermits and I am counting 9 living ones and one dead one. Was there a carcass in the empty shells I got from my LFS or did a scarlet molt? I do see a scarlet hiding deep in a live rock crevice which is unusual for them since I got them.


----------



## NC Frank

Water parameters:

PH 8.4
Temp - 78.1
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5
Hardness - 9
Calcium - 400 - dosing calcium tonight
Salinity - 1.024

All inhabitants are doing good. I may be down 1 scarlet due to a shell murder. Am only counting 8 and found a claw and a leg by an empty shell (may be an escape mechanism). 

Mexican turbo snails are keeping the glass crystal clear and algae free... the problem is that they are leaving the hair algae on the rocks. No problem eating the one on the glass though. Any suggestions on an inhabitant who will help with that algae or will the snails just get to it eventually?


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## Realistik84

*Just setup the 29Gal BIOCUBE*

SORRY - DID not mean to post in an existing thread....

So I set it up over the weekend.

I maintained everything stock at this point.

I added 30lbs aragonite
I added 20lbs of premium pre-cured live rock (selected pieces with lots of coralline)

Here are my questions:
- What should I look for over the next days/week?
- When should I look to add my CUC?
- When and how often should I test?

I broke some rules, and am wondering if I will learn to regret it?

For instance, in speaking with LFS, they said tap water at this point is fine, and the only risk is algae growth? I did this because to get RO/DI water and fill 29 gallon worth would be a pain...thoughts?

Should I leave lights on normal cycle? What cycle is said to be best?
I purchased this power strip --> 
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753204
Did anyone else use this and what do you think?


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## wake49

I used the dual analog version of this and hated it. It wouldn't turn on and off at the right times, like the switches weren't sensitive enough. I would have bought the digital version, like the one you posted, but it only had two cycles (day and night). I needed three different time settings (daytime, actinic and nightime). I didn't like that the daytime and nightime switches were polar; when day is on, night is off and vice versa. That left no time for absolute darkness in my tank, and I have read that absolute darkness is important for zooanthelle growth. I got rid of the Coralife timer and bought regular digital timers.

As far as the tap water: For a reef tank tap water is a no-no. I should've read back a few pages to see if this is a reef or not, but anyway... Tap water can have harmful contaminants in it that are bad for reef tanks (inverts, corals and other sensitive creatures). That is why RO/Di is important. You don't want those contaminants building up in the system and destroying your reef. In FOWLR or FO, the fish are hardier than inverts and Amquel is probably sufficient to treat the water.


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## NC Frank

Tank has been up for over 2 months.

Current water parameters:
Temp - 78.4
PH - 8.3
Carb hardness - 7 (Dosing Kent Super dHK this morning)
Calcium - 480
Salinity - 1.025 - ran out of RODI water to top off and haven't been able to get out due to the weather and then work since Friday- will bring some more home from work tonight. My guess is salinity would be 1.024.
Amonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> About the protein skimmer, can you post some pictures of the skimate and neck. Lets see if it is doing what it should be.


After tinkering with the protein skimmer it has been performing much better for the last 4 or 5 days. Forgot to post pictures but I will tonight.


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## NC Frank

All new inhabitants are in the tank (Since Saturday AM).

Odd behavior... the two blue/green chromis appear to be schooling with the clownfish and the clowns don't seem to mind at all. The skunk cleaner shrimp is one of the most interesting creatures I have ever owned. I love watching him walk upside down on the water surface to run from side to side.

The new yellow watchman flared out a couple of times at the larger diamond watchman on the first day. Now they stay in little caves right next to each other and ignore each other when feeding time comes. The diamond actually gave up his original cave to the yellow watchman... the lazy yellow watchman didn't even have make his own cave.

All fish are voracious eaters. I know my protein skimmer is working well because it has kicked it up a notch since the addition of the new fish.

The red hair algae problem is almost completely gone with the exception of some very minor remnants on a piece of the base rock. This was corrected with a combination of me tweaking my protein skimmer and the addition of 9 blue legged hermit crabs last week.

Coraline algae is beginning to grow more on the second piece of live rock and little spots of it are starting to grow on the back glass.

Water parameters are staying constant. I dose super buffer dkh once a week. Calcium seems to be needed every 2 weeks. Water gets checked every 3 days.

All in all everybody is active, eating healthy and appear to be happy and healthy.

Current Stocklist:
2 false perc clownfish (1 black, 1 misbar orange)
2 blue/green damsels
1 yellow watchman goby
1 diamond watchmad goby
8 scarlet hermit crabs
10 blue legged hermit crabs
1 emerald crab
1 skunk cleaner

Also a pair of feather dusters have appeared on the live rock of late (I am positive they are feather dusters and have had them id'd by a reefer I know. Early morning I also notice a couple of tiny baby copepods on the glass. My guess is that the population is not growing that fast due to the livestock eating away.


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## Pasfur

This is great. I really enjoy hearing when everything is coming together as planned. It makes all the conversations worth while.



NC Frank said:


> The new yellow watchman flared out a couple of times at the larger diamond watchman on the first day. Now they stay in little caves right next to each other and ignore each other when feeding time comes. The diamond actually gave up his original cave to the yellow watchman... the lazy yellow watchman didn't even have make his own cave.


I'm glad to hear this worked out as well. I know you were hesitant on this, so I'm glad my opinion did you well.

Nice job!


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> This is great. I really enjoy hearing when everything is coming together as planned. It makes all the conversations worth while.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad to hear this worked out as well. I know you were hesitant on this, so I'm glad my opinion did you well.
> 
> Nice job!


I appreciate all the help that you and the others have provided. So far my only casualty was one blue green chromis in the first night in QT. Everything else is working out as planned... and while I won't yet call the system stable it is certainly getting there. It has been running for 11 weeks with no major issues but the algae bloom that has been taken care of without the use of any chemicals (cleaning crew, cutting back the light by a few hours for a few days and tuning the protein skimmer). 

It is a much difference experience than setting up and maintaining a freshwater tank (and I do love my discus tank and my angels). Much more time and money invested initially but it is actually easier to maintain and so much more rewarding. Even the simplest of critters can be so interesting to watch. I get a kick out of watching the emerald crab scurrying around the sides of the tank at night (or during the day when he doesn't see me out there) and my favorite is the cleaner shrimp. They are characters.

I will definitely be leaning on you guys again in the near future. Once we move and I have my tanks setup I am going to be doing a larger reef tank. I initially wanted 120 to 150 gallons not counting the sump. Now I am shooting for 180 + a 55 sump minimum once we sell this house and move into one with a basement.  My man cave is currently in the converted attic (and I love my man cave) but being in an attic means that I am not comfortable putting tanks much larger than say 75 gallons up here.


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## Pasfur

I know it sounds crazy, but don't do a 180. I should have gone 260. The space is nearly identical and the cost not much different. I need more water.


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## NC Frank

I have room for 2, maybe 3 smaller fish in this tank. As much as I want an angel I decided to only get reef safe fish that can transfer to the larger tank one day.

I am thinking about a canary blenny (ORA) as my next fish. I was thinking of a neon dottyback but am concerned it might go after my cleaner shrimp.

I also need some ideas for a "centerpiece" fish since I want to keep this tank reef safe.


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## NC Frank

NC Frank said:


> I am thinking about a canary blenny (ORA) as my next fish. I was thinking of a neon dottyback but am concerned it might go after my cleaner shrimp.


Any thoughts on a canary blenny? Am I correct in that I should avoice the neon dottyback?


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## NC Frank

Instead of an angel I am thinking of completing the fish in my tank with a couple of banggai cardinals and move my corals back from my friend's house. With my current stock how many banggai cardinals can I put in the tank?

Also... brittle starfish... I believe they are beneficial. I have noticed at least three in my tank that I never noticed before. They are tiny and appear to be black and white striped. I assume I am correct in thinking they are good for the tank?


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## Pasfur

You are still on the right track. Everything above sounds about right. You are correct that adding a Dottyback in a tank with a shrimp can be a bad idea, depending on the size of each. I would skip it. On the Banggai, they aren't very active fish, so the group size will really depend on your tastes. Say 5 or 6?


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> You are still on the right track. Everything above sounds about right. You are correct that adding a Dottyback in a tank with a shrimp can be a bad idea, depending on the size of each. I would skip it. On the Banggai, they aren't very active fish, so the group size will really depend on your tastes. Say 5 or 6?


Can I get a school that large with my current load?

I have the two gobies (yellow and diamond watchman), the 2 clowns and 2 chromis. I was hoping for 3 banggai cardinals and one other rock dweller type fish. If you think I can get away with more I wouldn't mind throwing a larger school in there. They are stunning little guys.


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## NC Frank

Got three banggai cardinals (all that he had left) and 1 peppermint shrimp. No other reason to get the peppermint shrimp other than to get something else scurrying around my tank at night.  

Now that I am starting to add my corals:

1 long Polyp Leather (ORA)
1 large green zoa colony
1 medium green star polyp colony with a couple of clusters of Xenia growing on the edges
1 mushroom rock (about 14 or so mushrooms)

What do I need to add supplement wise?


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## onefish2fish

in time the cardinals will most likely pair and become very aggressive to the third wheel. do you know if theyre captive bred or wild caught?


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## NC Frank

onefish2fish said:


> in time the cardinals will most likely pair and become very aggressive to the third wheel. do you know if theyre captive bred or wild caught?


I didn't ask but they were with all of the other ORA fish that my guy sells. I assume they were captive bred. I will find out for sure.

So 3 isn't a good number?


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## Pasfur

OF2F has more experience than I do with banggai cardinals, so I will defer to his opinion on this. Keep in mind, however, that just because you have 3 fish does not mean they will pair up. It is just a possibility that you need to be prepared for in the future. If you see this behavior, then you can always return the odd ball to the LFS, or use it in your next aquarium. 

I like your coral selection. Keep in mind that regarldless of the size of the colonies you are purchasing, they will spread rather fast. Be sure to allow space, especially for the Xenia and Green Star Polyps. Also, the leather will grow upwards rather quickly, and will shade some light from surrounding corals. 

Bottom line, don't stock the tank for what it looks like today. Stock the tank with corals for what it will look like in 6 months.

Supplementation should be calcium and buffer only. Do not add iodine, stontium, molybendium, or any other additives that the industry pushes down your throat. We do not have accurate test kits for these other additives, and you should never add what you can't test for. Instead, you will monitor your water change routine and adjust accordingly based on the appearance of your corals. It sounds funny now, but it becomes obvious over the next few months.


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## NC Frank

Thanks OF2F and Pasfur.

FYI I have verified that my 2 banggai cardinals are ORA cardinals. This is the second time I added a threesome of fish into my QT and one didn't make it. I think I will keep the pair for now and wait until I find something else that interests me to round out the tank.

Check out the coral pictures when you get a chance.


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## Pasfur

The picture quality is amazing. I wish I could take picture like that.


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## NC Frank

Pasfur said:


> The picture quality is amazing. I wish I could take picture like that.


So do I my friend. I wait for my wife to take the pictures. I took over *30* pictures of the nudibranchs and not one was remotely usable. They all looked like brown spots. she took 6 and I could have posted any of them. She has a knack for it.


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