# Silver/White goldfish turning yellow???



## rae3988

1. Size of aquarium (# of gallons) 2.5 
2. Is your aquarium setup freshwater or brackish water? freshwater 
3. How long the aquarium has been set up? um...two or so weeks?
4. What fish and how many are in the aquarium (species are important to know) one fantail goldfish
5. Are there live plants in the aquarium? no
6. What temperature is the tank water currently? 72
7. What make/model filter are you using? tetra minifilter
8. Are you using a CO2 unit? no?
9. Does your aquarium receive natural sunlight at any given part of the day? nope
10. When did you perform your last water exchange, and how much water was changed? five hours ago, 40%
11. How often do you perform water changes? every day/every other day 25%
12. How often and what foods do you feed your fish? 3x a day, usually a single sinking pellet or two small flakes
13. What type of lighting are you using and how long is it kept on? there is a light on top of the tank but that's only on rarely, for an hour - two max
14. What specific concerns bring you here at this time? scales turning colors?
15. What are your water parameters? Test your pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. they're all good, pH at 7.0
16. What test kit are you using and is it liquid or test strips? liquid for PH, test strips for the rest
17. When was the last time you bought a fish and how did they behave while in the pet store tank? bought fish on the 17th and behaved...i don't remember


OK, so I have a silver/white goldfish and today I just happened to notice that it seems that a few scales/lines of scales are turning a yellowish color. Not an orange or red, but yellowish. Is this something I should be concerned about?


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## okiemavis

It sort of depends. It's very normal for goldfish to turn colours as they grow older, so you shouldn't be worried about that. However, if the scales look fuzzy, slimy, etc, then it could be a fungal infection. What does it look like?


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## eelz212

he's probably being burned by his own waste in that 2.5 gallon. goldfish may change colors gradually but within two weeks is not good.


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## rae3988

So what should I do if he's being burned by his own waste? I am constantly changing the water and stirring up the junk on the bottom so it can be removed.


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## crystalclear83

First of all, goldfish need larger tanks with heavy filtration. This is because they eat a lot and therefore poop a lot. This is why a small tank like yours is causing the fish to die. They get burned by the ammonia in the water from their waste. Which causes their scales to turn dark brown. A light yellow could be on it's way to brown. You need to get some easy tropical fish like a beta splendor, or wild guppies, etc. and return your fish. Or you can get a tank of at least 20 gallons and a filter that is rated for 30g or 40. Also you wouldn't add more than 2-3 goldfish to that. Basically you have a mismatch of fish and setup. If you have anymore concerns please post them. I'm sure the fish is very unhappy and in effect you are being cruel to him or her without knowing it.


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## rae3988

There are two other goldfish in this house: both goldfish are about double the size of mine and both live in bowls that are 2 gallons and their water isn't changed all too often. They haven't had any problems. Everything else we do the same (spring water, testing, etc). My goldfish is absolutely tiny, maybe the size of my thumb at best (I'm a 19 year old young woman, my thumb isn't exactly enormous).

I'm not questioning you, I'm just perplexed. 

I love Odie (his name) dearly, I really would never want to cause him harm, and I've gone through a lot with him in under a month (he had swim bladder issues at the very beginning) and I had to change from a bowl to a tank with filtration...

Also, I don't know if this is related or what, but his water smells pretty bad all the time. I'm guessing it's from the waste product (whcih is why I change the water so often) but it smells almost....plastic like, with an air of fish waste ( I wish there was a way to post smells on a board.... )

I'm going to investigate a 10 gallon tank, at least, I don't have space for a 20 gallon....is there anything I can do in the meantime/otherwise to keep him safe or to make sure he's okay?

The yellow is a very pale yellow, I tried to catch it on my camera (and without a flash it's really hard to get a clear shot)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/rae3988/secondsemest016.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/rae3988/secondsemest011.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/rae3988/secondsemest018.jpg


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## crystalclear83

Look into a 20g high the space is up instead of out. They are very inexpensive and you could check craigslist. And put the other two fish in it as well. Goldfish don't belong in a bowl. Even though you do water changes often which should be whenever you decect amonia in the water. And you should test everyday in this case. Water cahnging stresses the fish out so you are creating another problem by wiping the other under the rug. I have had betas die by not changing their water in a week, so a goldfish sure isn't happy. They are just a little hardier. Get a twenty gallon and put all three in, its better for the fish. I understand that your fish are small but goldies grow large. I moved mine from a 5 to a 29, now into a 75 gallon within less than a year. Don't let your preconceptions and maybe a little stubbornness? keep your fish from being cared for properly. However young goldfish do change colors into adulthood. But no goldfish becomes brown unless they are burrned.


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## rae3988

"put all three in"

three? If I just want to stick with one fish, can the tank go smaller (I swear, despite what it sounds like I'm really not trying to be stubborn, I've just inexperienced and frustrated--at myself--for thinking this could be as simple as it's been for other people). Are there other symptoms of ammonia burn I should look for? Also, you were talking about flters that can handle 30g-40...I assume that means gallons?
Stupid question: would it be ineffective (while waiting for new tank) to get a stronger filter for this smaller tank?

How would I know the difference between aging color change and burning color change? Would it be if it doens't turn brown and is just turning orange or yellow? I tried looking online for other people who've had white goldfish that turn colors (regardless of reason) but no such luck.


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## crystalclear83

I'm familiar with white baby gold fish becoming multi colored with age. The goal is to get a tank that will house your fish as long as possible. I was trying to start you off in the right direction with a 20g. Eventually if you only intend to keep that one fish in a tank by itself for the rest of it's life it would need to be in a minimum of 30-45 gallons, gold fish get big and yours gets kinda like softball size. Swimming room is what fish need, although fantails kinda waddle around it still matters to his fish brain. It is small and if you need to start with a 10g tank and a 20g filter that's better than a 2.5 with some mini filter. yes g = gallon Another sign you can tell if a fish is in ammonia pain is to see if it's gills are working overtime cause ammonia in the water constricts the fish's capillaries making less oxygen get to the fish's body in effect suffocating it. Yes a larger filter would help but it takes weeks to become affective and it would blow your fish around in a tank that small.


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## okiemavis

Do you have a water testing kit that tests for ammonia? If there is ammonia showing up on the test, it is ammonia burn, otherwise it's something else. Also, let me point out that this is a fantail. While most fancy goldfish grow to be 12+ inches, fantails only grow to be a little over 6 inches, so you luckily won't need a GIGANTIC tank, although you will obviously need a larger one.

Just trying to defend you a little bit- I closely followed your last postings about the swim bladder disorder, so I'm aware that you know you need a larger tank, that you're fastidious about the water quality in this tiny tank and of how much money and effort you've already put into this little guy. I know you're in uni right now, and that when you move out of your dorm in early May his tank will be greatly upgraded.

On the other hand, that smell indicates that his tank is too small, no matter how much you change his water. One of the biggest problems with a 2.5 gallon tank, is that because it is so small, it's almost impossible to cycle. There is just no way to build up the biological balance needed to break down Odie's waste. Upgrading to at least a 10 gallon for now would mean that the tank could cycle, and you could rely on biological filtration, not just chemical and mechanical.


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## rae3988

I was watching him swim around and tried to watch the gills...it didn't look like they were moving at all, but he swims around so erratically its difficult to tell....

alright, so I'm going to look at larger tanks today.

So I don't make a stupid mistake too soon:

How do I go about setting this thing up correctly? Should I set it up and let water run for a bit? How about the plants and gravel that I have in my tank currently, do I need to get new stuff? Can I jsut wash it off and put it in the new tank?
(Will Walmart take back a used fishtank if I've taken super care of it??)
Spell it out for me even if it seems obvious (please) because I dont' want to do anything wrong.


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## crystalclear83

Keep the gravel and ornaments from your previous tank and definitely add them to your new tank. Siphon the gunk from the gravel with a gravel vac- some tubing with a plastic cylinder at the end, first. Then add the stuff to your new tank with out washing them. This will bring good bacteria. Let the tank run for at least 24 hours and add the media from your previous running filter to your new filter when you switch, and also do not wash. Wallmart sells 10 gallon tanks for 7 dollars. Having a florescent light increases your enjoyment very much. Keeping fish is simple and very easy, it just requires an upfront investment and a small routine when done right. Bud you sound like a budding enthusiast like us all we discover the pitfalls as we progress. That's how you learn.


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## eelz212

i know just how you feel Rae- you want to do right by your fish but it can become a real investment of time, effort, and $. 

in the last few weeks i've been going thru almost the exact same thing as you- here's a link to the thread where i was "converted" (i.e. started feeling really guilty and wised up).

http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12946&highlight=

recently i have set up a 55 gallon tank for my two goldfish. it looks a little ridiculous right now as the tank is ginormous and the fish are still teensy weensy- but they won't be that way for long.

i am cycling my tank with the fish in there- it's not the best, but when i tested the ammonia levels in the 10gallon, they were very unhealthy, so i chose the lesser of two evils. for about 4 days i went thru a "bacterial bloom" that required many small water changes, but now things are crystal clear.

here's the link describing the new setup= 

http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13590

also if you check out my thread in the freshwater pics section there's more info there.

just do the best you can- and check craigslist for some really great deals on used tanks and supplies.


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## rae3988

Got the new tank and followed what you guys have said--10 gallons, currently all set up just missing the fish.

Should I wait overnight or 24 hours? Also, I was told to put new tank water into the old tank (a few cups) to help him adjust-is there anyhting else I should do or be aware of before I place him inthe new tank? Do I just put him in there? Or plastic bag for 15 minutes? Or....


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## eelz212

i'd fill the new tank 3/4s of the way, start the filter, and let it sit overnight.

tomorrow, empty the 2.5 by about a quarter- and then add a cup of the new tank's water every 15 minutes or so, until it's all full up. that should help him adjust to the new temperature and chemical balance a little-

to move him i'd try and gently scoop him into some sort of big container, along with a good amount of the old water. then sort of let that container float on its side in the new tank. hold it up so it doesn't sink to the bottom, but submerge it enough so that he can choose to swim into the new environment at his own leisure. when he's in, you can empty the rest of the old water into the 10 gallon. put fresh tap in if there's any room left.

if you've got any ornaments from the old tank stick those in there too- and if you've got an old nylon stocking, rinse it off and put the old gravel in it, and plop that in the new tank. the old bacteria should speed things up

go easy on the feeding for a little while and don't mess with the gravel or filter. oh and make sure there's an air stone in there- goldfish really need that.

your new tank will probably become very cloudy within few days. this is the tank not being able to handle the waste being produced- try and change one gallon of water two times per day.

and come back to ask more questions if you need help


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## crystalclear83

No when the tank becomes cloudy leave it, it will subside, the white cloud is the bacteria bloom. If you change the water the tank will not get to cycle fully. The bacteria bloom is normal and should not last longer than a week. If you add old water from the previous tank this could increase the time because you are bringing excess nutrients to the new tank for the bacteria to feed on. He will be fine in the the new tank water. How I acclimate fish that I'm moving from one tank to another is to get a bucket and add water from the first tank then place the fish, over a period of 20-30 min I add a cup of the new tank water here and there at equal intervals, then just net the fish and place him in his new home. An air stone and pump is necessary for goldfish they need lots of O2. Speaking of which is why you need to let the water sit for 24 hours. When water is in pipes or bottled it is extremely depleted of oxygen, leaving the filter run for 24 hours will cause the oxygen exchange enough to alow the fish to be healthy. After the first month change 25-50% of the water. Make sure the new tank water is the same temp as the old water before transfer.


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## eelz212

crystalclear- i was under the impression that small water changes during the bloom will give the fish some relief from the high levels of ammonia- . anyway that's how i went about tending to my tank and it's worked fine. anyway, you certainly seem to know what you're talking about so i might go by your instructions.


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## rae3988

he was acting pretty listless when I got up this morning, I've put him in the new tank now. Still pretty listless, not swimming around so much at all (in either tank-beforeI moved him or after). Hoping that when I get back from class he's still okay


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## crystalclear83

Your fish is going under a lot of stress, his better days will be in a few weeks. Just feed him sparingly and give him an air stone during the cycle. Sorry eelz I just disagreed, thats how I know the cycle to work. Changing the water will only keep the bacteria from forming the correct size colony, which will cause subsequent mini cycles until it catches up which will keep ammonia in the water. You may want to add a small amount of stress coat or some product that will neutralize ammonia, it will make ammonia harmless to fish, but will not affect the cycle because it will still be broken down by the bacteria, it will also read on the test kits. (amino-lock) Or as I prefer if you really want to help your fish you can add an bacteria additive to speed up the cycle to about 1 week. Don't worry your fish isn't the first fish to go under the cycle and goldfish of all fish can handle it fine. Yours may be a little extra stressed from the previous tank etc. But I know he will be okay. Feed very little (once a day) make sure no excess is in the tank. Get an air stone and pump. Cost of pump and air stone less than 10 bucks. Last a long time I still have my first pump, and 10 more! Air stones on the other hand don't last very long, but they're 2 for 99 cents.


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## rae3988

Things are much better now, he's swimming around much more actively. I think I've been converted to the joys of a bigger tank
I'll keep watching him and reading this thread to make sure I'm doing everything to the best of my ability.


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## okiemavis

Yaaay! And the fish keeping addiction begins...


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## crystalclear83

Did you get a light?


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## rae3988

I bought a hood that was supposed to fit the tank..but it doesn't. There weren't any other options at the walmart (I live in the middle of nowhere so it's difficult to be choosy...but there were ACTUALLY no other options)


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## rae3988




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## okiemavis

Hehe, how cute. Tiny fish, biiiig tank. Just how goldies like 'em!


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## crystalclear83

Very, Very, Very nice. Get yourself a fluorescent light, thermometer, and make sure you feed him only goldfish food. Not tropical food. Goldfish need less protein than tropical fish or else it will get constipated. Now you can also add 2 dojo loaches, the perfect goldfish companion. They are bottom feeders and do not require a heater.


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## rae3988

Yep, I only have goldfish food for him, and I have a thermometer on the side that you can't see. As for the light, I just have to figure out how to get a hood that fits, since the only one I have doesn't fit...

ALso, I had the two filters going but noticed that it seemed a little difficult for him to swim around, so I turned on off. I can't find any information on how mnuch water the filters process, only that they're made for 5-10 gallon tanks..


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## okiemavis

Here ya go, this is the whisper site that lists the GPH ratings for their three in-tank filters:
http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=280

You shouldn't have trouble finding a hood that fits a 10 gallon- just remember, the standard 10 gallon is 20 inches long. The box should say something like "good for 10 gallon tanks and 20 gallon high tanks" or something to that effect.


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## crystalclear83

Yea but those in tank filters can be tricky, I have a few. They get in the way of the hood. I had to buy a glass top and a light strip. They do ok, eventually you will find that the flow slows and having two is good. Don't change the filter media at the same time change only one every other time. One other reason why I don't prefer them is because they take up tank space. But you did a good job and it very admirable. And I wouldn't change them too often unless you can see that debrie is actually slowing the filter down to the point of it not working efficiently. Having two will make them last longer in between changes. If it's too powerful for the guy just get some ornaments and place them in the way of the flow of the filter to disburse the flow. He'll get used to it. unless its really bad. Are they 10 gallon or 20 gallon filters?


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## rae3988

I bought a hood that said it was for 10 gallon tanks...there's this ledge thing at the end of the hood that has nowhere to go in relation to the tank..it's weird, I'll take a photo of it later so things make more sense. 

They're 10 gallon filters, well, they're meant for 5-10 gallon tanks, so said the box. Okiemavis, I was looking at the tetra website and, turns out, the filter I have looks identical to the "10i" one (so this sort of solves our mystery, but not completely...) except the box I have doesn't say 10i. Old packaging, maybe.


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## okiemavis

Weird. Glad you've identified the filter though.

As for a top- I'm not really sure it's necessary, especially if you're having trouble fitting it over the in tank filters. You could go for one of those clamp-on lamps instead, that bend over the tank. You don't have any live plants in the aquarium, so you don't need a whole lot of full spectrum light to keep your tank going, you just don't want a light that produces heat, so stick to florescent or LED.


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## crystalclear83

Lets see your hood, I like having a hood to keep the fish from leaving the tank, water from evaporating fast, and because the full length makes the lighting even and therefore more enjoyable you are doing everything else right just get a fitting hood or glass top with light strip! I'm getting excited for you. It is possible you have a hood for a perfecto tank, and you have an all glass aquarium. Just return it and get one for your brand tank. WIth a hood you will have everything for a nice little tank. When you don't house your goldfish in it anymore all you need will be a heater and you can have a nice tropical tank. Remember these things last a long time so you will only have to get fish and food.


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## okiemavis

I have too many guppies if you want them! lol

Yeah, it's an investment that will last you a lifetime. Even if you only want to keep one large tank later on, it's great to have a smaller tank to use for quarantine of new fish and as a hospital tank.


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## crystalclear83

I agree completely I have several small tanks I refuse to break down some I've had going for 5 years just with plants guppies and betas etc.


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## okiemavis

Plus...if you wanted, you could always convert one of your spare 10 gallons to a dwarf puffer tank hehe, that's what I'm doing!


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## crystalclear83

dwarf puffer, bumble globby and fresh water flounder.


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## rae3988

update: 

the water looks really cloudy....??

he's still turning slightly yellow, esp. near his belly? but it seems to stay at yellow, not go darker. He's sort of pinkish silverish yellow, now. (was always sort of silvery with a hint of pink). The pH is still fine, the filter(s) are doing well...could this just be natural?


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## crystalclear83

very natural, usually goes away in 3 days to a week. FEED LIGHTLY just a taste. Its bacteria multiplying to compensate for the ammonia in the water from the organic matter, the bacteria eats it and makes the water safe for fishy. The bacteria will colonize on the filter media and live there, because it has running water through it, that is the most connivent place for the bacteria to live because of all the new constant nutrients for it to feed once it takes hold there it will leave the water in the tank making it CRYSTALCLEAR!


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## rae3988

Alright, so I was checking on him today and a few things:

1. I don't think he's a fantail....actually, he's definitely not...doing research made him resemble (esp in photos) a Shubunkin or a Comet. Can't tell for sure, but if someone knows more about types of fish and wants to look at the picture I posted earlier, I'd be curious to know.

2. I pulled out the filter cartiridge thing today (I've been only using one filter recently) and it was DISGUSTING! I've only had this tank for three days, but already the filter thing (normally white and you can't even see the black carbon inside) is a nice shade of brown with some greenish tint.

How do you clean filters? Do you just get new ones? I now have both filters workig but I was amazed to see how gross it was so quickly...


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## okiemavis

Don't clean the filter! This is the bacteria that is building up that will cycle your tank. Once the tank is done cycling, you can rinse the filter insert gently in dechlorinated water, but you really shouldn't ever scrub out the inside of your filter, and you shouldn't rinse out the two filter inserts at the same time. It may look gross but this is good bacteria!


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## rae3988

I went to check on him today and again the yellow has remained yellow so I guess he's just changing colors.

HOWEVER.

I noticed that elsewhere he's suddenly missing scales. (?!?) One theory I had was that the two filters running together are very powerful for a small fish like him, he had some difficulties swimming and would be moved around a bit/might have accidentally hit one of the decorations in the tank that I'm going to remove cuz it might be sharpish. Otherwise, I have no idea and I feel terrible--it's not a lot of missing ones, it seems pretty likely to me that he might have swam into these things I have at the bottom of the tank that look almost sharp but it's plastic, so I don't think so (but I just removed them anyway)

Thoguhts?


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## crystalclear83

Dont' worry about the scales mine are always loosing scales. You can put the ornamants back in.


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## rae3988

The water is still ridiculously cloudy.....

I just feel bad (I'm a softie) and I've convinced myself that it hurts to lose scales


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## okiemavis

Loosing scales is often a sign of ammonia problems...I know your tank is cycling, so you should have a buildup of ammonia. I would do a 25% water change today, and stay calm! Goldfish can withstand a lot of bad quality (if you look at how they're kept at the fish shop you'll know that). Just wait for the cycle to finish and monitor to make sure he is still active and eating. The rest will take care of it's self!


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## rae3988

Cleaned 25% of the water...but the tank is cloudiER! I can hardly see one end from the other....


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## crystalclear83

okiemavis please explain why losing scales is a sign of high ammonia, I'm curious to know how that works, I've never heard of that before. I have goldfish in a 75 gallon with a eheim canister 2217 and a lifeguard 300 gallon fluidized bed filter. If I were to use that tank as a toilet there would be still zero ammonia. And my fish lose scales all the time they are just rambunctious. Goldfish aren't meant to keep their scales forever they come and go as the fish ages and I would think as part of the color change her fish is losing all the old baby color scales. 
Rae Don't change anymore water, it has nothing to do with being a softy it has to do with doing what is necessary forget about it, just feed lightly and keep the light off for a week the water will clear up, thats it.


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## okiemavis

While loosing a scale or two is fine, more than that isn't healthy, and is a sign of poor water quality. Ammonia burn causes skin and gill problems and weak skin looses scales. Also, stress can cause scale loss. A few weeks ago someone on here was cycling a 55G tank with two goldfish, and bettababy did recommend doing water changes while the tank was cycling. Here's the link to this topic:
http://www.fishforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13590


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## rae3988

The tank currently looks like this:


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## rae3988

Water is still cloudy, just tested for ammonia and it came up as 0ppm (if that's the correct notation).

And I found out he's a calico goldfish.


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## okiemavis

Could you most the full water parameters for us? Nitrate, nitrite etc?


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## rae3988

pH: 6.8-7.0, its hard to tell, color discrepancies are so slight.
ammonia: 0 ppm
nitrate: 0 ppm
nitrite: 0 ppm


waters still pretty cloudy, but maybe clearing up a little bit. water is also getting low (because i don't have a hood) so the filter is making lots of bubbles/sounds like running water (versus when the water is higher and its more silent. but that's not a concern.)


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## okiemavis

You can still add more water to the tank, just make sure you dechlorinate the water first. The fact that there's no nitrate reading AND no ammonia reading confuses me. When a tank cycles the ammonia and nitrites will spike, and when the tank is done cycling there should be some nitrates in it (that's the end of the process where the dangerous stuff is broken down). A cycled tank will probably have a nitrate reading of between 10 and 40ppm. Are you sure you're testing right? Some of them have specific instructions (I think it's the nitrite one, where you have to add, shake, wait, add etc.). Also, some of them have to sit for about 5 minutes before a reading comes up.


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## rae3988

Yeah, I made sure to follow the directions exactly. And they all sat for probably just under 5 minutes, I was trying to do my best remembering what time I did them. The fact that there's no nitrate reading AND no ammonia reading confuses me.

What should I do?Add more water?


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## okiemavis

Umm, yeah, that is really strange. I haven't experienced this myself, so I really don't have an explanation for it, maybe someone else does?

Since there isn't any ammonia or nitrites in the tank, I guess the best thing to do would to continue to monitor the water parameters daily. As long as he's still active and eating I wouldn't worry, it should work out in time, and you'll know if anything spikes because you'll be testing it every day.

Yes, definitely go ahead and add more water. It's fine to keep the water level up, just make sure you use dechlorinated water that's the same temp as the tank (I know you know this).

It's possible that you have so much new carbon in your two filters that it's been getting rid of everything in the water? I really don't know if that's possible, but I do know you have some pretty heavy duty filtration going. Perhaps when the carbon ages in a week or so, the tank will begin to cycle? Just remember: never change both filter cartridges at the same time.


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## crystalclear83

No the carbon has nothing to do with it and can't. The water is still cloudy because of the water change. The nitrates aren't there because she moved gravel from the previous tank which had all the necessary bacteria and it did not have to form in the process of the true cycle.


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