# Creeping death taking out my guppies!!!!



## sweetwaterarabians (Nov 1, 2006)

Ack, I'm heartbroken! I'm loosing all my guppies left and right and it seems there's nothing I can do about it. It's a long story so I'll hope to get it all written down. Started off I had my 40 gallon with show guppies spring a leak and I had to divide off my 55 tank and put them in one side. The other side had a few larger fish, a full grown red tail shark, big blue gourami, 4 zebra danios, a couple of cherry barbs, couple of serpaes and a few black neons. Guppies were doing great after the move. My 55 tank has been set up for years and has always been very healthy. I've had my fish for years and have a few live plants. 

It all started when I got the notion to add 10 neon tetras to the guppy side. I knew I shouldn't by fish at Wal-Mart but went against my instincs and bought them anyway. They looked healthy right. Wrong! Lo and behold the tainted my tank with ick. I have delt with ick before and always taken it out rather quickly. Not this time. I treated it immediately with Quick Cure using half strength not to hurt the tetras. I retreated each day with 30% water changes. After a few days no sign of it going away I upped it to full strength and up the temp to 80 degrees and added more salt and changed to doing the treatement and water change every other day. Still not helping much after dealing with it nearly 2 weeks but started to loose a few fish, 1 serpae, 1 black neon, 1 cherry barb. So I gave up on the Quick Cure and switched to Copper Safe since I usually use that with all my water changes anyway and still water changes every other day. Ick finally started to look better and tetras started acting healthier but then the guppies started suffering with sluggishness and fin rot. I still hadn't lost 1 neon tetra throught all this. Now all the fish seem fine but the guppies who just get worst and worst and are dropping like flies. I've lost nearly all the babies and most of my best males. The fin rot just gets worst and worst. I'm now trying Maracyn Plus but still using the Copper Safe with water changes. I hate to use medications but it seems I have no choice. I don't have another tank to use nor a place to put another one for not. I tested the water and the ammonia and nitrites test clear. 

Has anyone dealt with something like this or know what I can do? It seems I have the worst luck with guppies and they are my favorite fish. I just can't seem to save them anytime they get sick. It just seems strange for them to be dying off when the sensitive fish like the neons and plecos are thriving. :? 

At my wits end!


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## joeshmoe (Aug 2, 2006)

well i once got 5 goldfish a pleco and CAE from wal-mart they got ick and couldnt save them.  but wal-mart gave me all my money back. i would just keep doing what your doing. and ihave one q does bolth sides have ick?


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## sweetwaterarabians (Nov 1, 2006)

*yes*

Yes, both sides got ick because it's the same water flowing through. It started on the side with the neons and guppies though. I did notice that my shark and the gourami never were affected by the ick. Are they immune to ick?
Did you have to bring the dead fish back to Wal-Mart? I didn't loose my Wal-Mart fish, only my expensive guppies.


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## Tracy (Aug 4, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your fish getting so ill and dying  I had a similar thing happen about 18 months ago with PetSmart fish -- I got about 10 neons and ended up with a diseased tank and losing a large pleco  

Beautiful horses, by the way! And welcome to the Forum.


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## joeshmoe (Aug 2, 2006)

nope i didnt but if any of them diei would bring them back


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

Seems like you'll need warning signs in certain stores against buying their fish. Dawn has stated in a few threads before against buying fish in stores where fish is not much of their specialty because there is a high risk of improper maintenance which can lead to vulnerability to diseases.

If there are people complaining about a certain store, then it would be best to follow their complaints otherwise you'll go to almost the same route as theirs.:blueworry:

Sorry to hear the loss of your guppies.:blueworry:

What are your water stats? It's odd to me that the neons are still thriving after being afflicted by ich.:blink:


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## sweetwaterarabians (Nov 1, 2006)

*water stats*

Ammonia and nitrites test clear, PH neutral. I don't have a nitrate test at the moment. The water is at 82 degrees. I find it very strange also that the neons haven't been fazed at all throught this whole thing. They had a couple of ich spots on them that went away but that's it. I have always had bad luck with neons in the past so I can't believe the guppies are dying off like they are. They just refuse to get well. Some of them have had their tails completely rot off and then they die. 

I knew better than to by from Wal Mart. I jsut wanted the neons so bad that I went against what I knew was right and I though, Hey, they look nice and healthy.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: water stats*



sweetwaterarabians said:


> I knew better than to by from Wal Mart. I jsut wanted the neons so bad that I went against what I knew was right and I though, Hey, they look nice and healthy.


Shannon. cheer up. There's a lesson learned for every mistake committed.:mrgreen: And in your case, next time don't buy fish in shops that don't specialize in fish at all and that goes with Walmart which has long been the center of complaints in this forum.


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## jones57742 (Oct 31, 2006)

sweetwaterarabians:

I just finished writing a treatise to try to help out.

Clicked on preview and it went away!

Believe I can really help as I have just dealt with the virtually same situation with success.

I have to go as am out of town at Chris' ranch and have a meeting in San Angelo early this morning.

For now IMHO
do a 20% WC (Pls no more than 20%),
add carbon filtration if possible to start getting rid of the meds,
add aquarium salt to a concentration of 1 Tblspn/20G and
increase your temperature to slightly above 80F.

Aq. salt I use is one in white box with pink label. Got it at PETCO.

This will be a four day process but I had all my very, very fancy show guppies survive and got rid of ich on my large black angel.

I will fill you in on the remainder of the protocol when I get home this afternoon after the meeting .

TR

These med's are published to not be detrimental but, IMHO, they are to "high end" show guppies.

If anyone has any other ideas on getting them out please post.

This is critical to save what he has left.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

I just gave this advice to another member who has ich case too.


> Try to increase the tank temp to 30C. Treat your whole tank and try to avoid stressing your fish. The more stressed your fish, the weaker their immune system will be thus the ich will succeed in killing your fish. Continue treatment for 2 weeks. The longer, the better just for precautionary measures.
> 
> Consider giving your fish nutritious foods to strengthen their immune system to fight off ich.
> 
> On the side note, ich is at its most vulnerability if it is in free-swimming phase. Meds are not effective when ich are encrusted under the fish's skin. The warm temp should speed up their lifecycle thus enabling them to go to free-swimming stage in which meds can destroy them easily.


The only advice I can give is try to improve food menu further to build up strong resistance. Ich tend to hit fish with weakened immune system severely.

You can consider using salt as Jones suggested or meds.

Hope the fish will recover soon.


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## jones57742 (Oct 31, 2006)

OK back to where I can continue.

2nd day
20% WC
increase salt concentration to 1Tblspn/15G.
increase temperature to 82F

3rd day (most of ich signs had gone away)
20% WC
increase salt concentration to 1Tblspn/10G
increase temperature to 84F

4th day (only one small spot remained)
just did a 20% WC
added salt to maintain a concentration of 1Tblspn/10G
left temperature at 84F

5th day (all observable symptoms of ich were gone)
did a 20% WC
added salt to maintain a concentration of 1Tblspn/10G
left temperature at 84F

6th and 7th days
did a 20% WC
added salt to maintain a concentration of 1Tblspn/10G
left temperature at 84F

On 8th day I reversed the process

Each day I did a 20% water change and reduced the temperature 1F/day until I had reached a salt concentration of 1Tblspn/20G and my typical 78F temperature.

I maintained the salt concentration at 1Tblspn/20G for an additional 7 days.

I know this algorithm seems "convoluted" but I did not lose any of my very, very fancy show guppies.

If on the 5th day the ich is not gone please advise me as the literature recommends higher salt concetrations and temperature.

TR


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## sweetwaterarabians (Nov 1, 2006)

*Thanks*

Thanks! I will try these steps and see what happens. Already sounds similar to what I am doing but maybe I haven't added enough salt. Will try this and hope it works because there's still no change in what I'm doing now and I've been treating this now for 3 weeks.


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## fish_4_all (Nov 13, 2006)

I have done the same thing except I got the Ich from my LFS and lost my best male and female swords. 

On AA, they actually recommend against using any chemical but use a technique of raising the temperature up to 86-88 degrees until it is gone. Personally I treated with coppersafe but anytime I treat, I also add Melafix or something that is supposed to help with fin rot. I know it is going to happen because of the stress the fish go through and it seems to limit lossed if I dose it from the beginning. 

Sorry for your losses. My wife won't let me buy fish from Wal-Mart because there is almost always 1/3 or more of the tanks that have ich or dead fish.


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## sweetwaterarabians (Nov 1, 2006)

*ordering fish*

My husband freaks out when I order fish because it's so expensive to have them shipped. We live in the middle of no where here in TN and finding a pet store with descent fish is impossible so it's safer to pay the extra bucks to order them. Had I not slipped up and bought from Wal Mart I would still have my expensive guppies. I have lost my red variaged snakeskin guppies and a few of my Half Black Yellows but do have a few left and I'm really hoping to save them or I'll have to start from scratch.


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## sweetwaterarabians (Nov 1, 2006)

*Finally!*

I finally have this thing under control. At least I think anyway. Too bad I lost all of my best breeding guppies and only left with 3 cull males and a about 4 babies. I still never lost any of the neons and now they look better than ever. I did the maintaining the water temp above 80 degrees and did 25% water changes every day with adding the salt. I also had to add Melafix and Primafix and that quickly took care of the fin rot. Too bad I didn't have any of that stuff earlier. I might could have saved my guppies. Nothing else I had was really helping with the fin rot. I'll have to get some more of that to keep on hand. At least I'm finally getting my tank back to what it was before all this mess.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: Finally!*



sweetwaterarabians said:


> I finally have this thing under control. At least I think anyway. Too bad I lost all of my best breeding guppies and only left with 3 cull males and a about 4 babies. I still never lost any of the neons and now they look better than ever. I did the maintaining the water temp above 80 degrees and did 25% water changes every day with adding the salt. I also had to add Melafix and Primafix and that quickly took care of the fin rot. Too bad I didn't have any of that stuff earlier. I might could have saved my guppies. Nothing else I had was really helping with the fin rot. I'll have to get some more of that to keep on hand. At least I'm finally getting my tank back to what it was before all this mess.


Sorry to hear that. Are you still planning to buy more guppies again? But they can be quite expensive.:blueshake:
That's odd that the neons still survive.:blink:


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## jones57742 (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: Finally!*



Blue said:


> That's odd that the neons still survive.


Not really.

These show guppies are the least hardy fish in my tank other than my QA plecs.

TR


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## sweetwaterarabians (Nov 1, 2006)

*I can't believe this*

As soon as I think I'm out of the clear I find another guppy today with a couple of ick spots. It's just one fish and the rest look better than ever. The neons seem to be an even brighter color than they already were. I can't believe after all I have done the ick is still in there. So I guess I'll have to start all over again. I went ahead and through the fish with ick out. It wasn't a very good one anyway and I didn't have an extra tank to put it in. So I'm starting the treatment all over again, raising the temp and the salt.
I had just ordered more guppies too because I thought I was in the clear. They are suppose to ship Monday. If I find another one with ick before then I'll probably cancel my order or ask them to ship them in a few more weeks. I just can't believe this happening. All my years with fish I've never had a stubborn ick problem like this. It's always just gone away with one treatment in the past.


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