# Multiple large tanks and water changes



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Because I don't have room for any more tanks right now, I like to do a lot of planning and dreaming. I've got some setups worked out that I'd like to try in the future. But one of my hangups seems to be water changes. I've got a python and am more than capable of doing them. Right now I mark off Sunday as water change day, and get them done then. It doesn't take more than a few hours, but I only have one large tank (55 gallon). In the future I would like to have at least four tanks in excess of 50 gallons. Doing them all on one day seems a bit daunting and very time consuming. 

For those of you who have multiple large tanks, how do you organize your water changes? All on one day? Spread them out through the week? I'm curious to know others' solutions for this problem. These tanks won't come to fruition for at least another 5 years, so all of this is merely speculative. I don't need a solution right away. I just like to plan ahead.


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Water change Wednesday for me.

When I had the 180g tank I did that in the morning before going to work removing almost 100 gallons with the python.

Then when I finish work after supper, the other tanks (as per my signature).

All in all took about 4 hours.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

I split mine between two days. I'll do the small tanks (20 and 10gallon) and a 55 gallon on one day, then the 135 and the other 55 on another day.


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## 3ndler3nvy (May 20, 2012)

I've got 9 tanks and a water changer. I've got 3 55 gallon tanks and a 125 as well as several smaller. I break up water changes over 2 or 3 days. I've gotten myself in to trouble a few times walking away while my tank is filling and forgetting about it. Flooded my fishroom more than I'd like to admit.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm just "spit balling" since although I have several tanks, only the 60g has water right now (also have a 5g, 2x10g, and a 29g in the basement).
I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way as long as each tank receives the required water change weekly....right? So a lot depends on your life and how the process fits in with the priorities of your other chores. I think it can be good to target a day of the week and stick to a schedule so it gets done routinely, but it can be pretty flexible and the world won't end if your a day or two late. 
In fact, doing weekly water changes that includes cleaning the glass, gravel siphoning (as/if required), servicing the filter can be done very quickly because of the routine as I'd think it would take much longer to address a neglected tank.
Anyway, whatever 'gets her done'.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I presently have 7 tanks running, including a 115g, 90g and 70g. I do the water changes in one day, it takes about 3 hours, and currently i do them on Monday in the morning. I was dividing them between two days, half and half, but after a few weeks I decided I preferred doing them together. The only downside to this is if i want to do some re-aquascaping in one tank; so this is sometimes best left for another day.

One reason i went back to one day was keeping better track of plant fertilization which is twice weekly. It is easier for me to remember doing it every Tuesday and Friday morning, rather than Tuesday and Friday for these tanks, and Thursday and Sunday for those tanks... or whatever.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Right now I can get my water changes done in about 2 hours. Three if I'm pussy-footin' around doing other stuff. I've done the alternate day water changes, and the ferts do get confusing with it. Often times I return from trips on Sunday too tired to do all of my water changes in one night. Ferts the next week are often not done right. Good point, Byron. 

100 gallons before work, Tazman?! That's crazy. I can hardly feed the dogs before work let alone change that much water!


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I use a pump to drain the tanks and a python to refill them, so I can be draining and filling at the same time. Takes a little more than 2 hours to do 80% changes on all the tanks (including 4 quarantine tanks).


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

That's a great idea, Jaysee! What kind of pump do you use?


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

I connect to my shower instead of a sink and seem to get more water pressure/faster filling that way. If I am rushing water changes I will drain all the tanks before refilling any of them, instead of draining one then refilling it then draining another then refilling it.... takes about 40 minuets to change 50% on my 55gallon normally plus doing trimming while its draining/filling. 

In the last couple weeks I moved and have switched to using some RO water and that has slowed water changes wayyy down lately. Mainly because I don't have a proper pump yet for filling. I've modified a tank filter and a powerhead to pump water but its pretty slow, especially when the water can gets close to empty.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

thekoimaiden said:


> That's a great idea, Jaysee! What kind of pump do you use?


I use an azoo power head, model 1800? I think it does like 450 gph. It is a pump style power head, as opposed to the penguin and aquaclear style. I dont ever vacuum, but you could attach a vac tube to it very easily.


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

with the large tanks u describe i really doubt they need weekly changes presuming they are planted 

so lets say you have 4 50+gal tanks i would do one a week perfectly acceptable and less stressful for your fish 

personally i never change water unless the nitrates get too high for my liking 
other than removing approx 15 litre to clean my filters i dont ever change water without a v good reason 

my tank is 150 litre (40 UK gal) with an extra 50 litre of water in my sump 

also although plants enjoy neutriants from a water change they also feed and need nitrates 

weekly changes on large tanks will leave nitrate levels extreamly low for your plants to thrive

even at work we dont change water just top the 1500 gallon system with ro water


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

There's more reasons to do water changes than nitrates.....


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## eug (May 18, 2012)

Byron said:


> I presently have 7 tanks running, including a 115g, 90g and 70g. I do the water changes in one day, it takes about 3 hours, and currently i do them on Monday in the morning. I was dividing them between two days, half and half, but after a few weeks I decided I preferred doing them together. The only downside to this is if i want to do some re-aquascaping in one tank; so this is sometimes best left for another day.
> 
> One reason i went back to one day was keeping better track of plant fertilization which is twice weekly. It is easier for me to remember doing it every Tuesday and Friday morning, rather than Tuesday and Friday for these tanks, and Thursday and Sunday for those tanks... or whatever.


I'm also a Monday water-changer! Just did mine a couple hours ago. I add fertilizer right after the water change though (or even mixing it into the new water). Is there any particular reason why you wait until Tuesday to add fertilizer?


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

jaysee said:


> There's more reasons to do water changes than nitrates.....


each to there own 
its just my opinion thats all

just a little tip but like me when you up-size a tank you can also up size your syphon equipment

a good example is my diy gravel vac which is just 19-20mm inner diameter tubing which fits very snug into the top of a normal 2 litre pop bottle chop bottle in half or just under and job is a good one this will massively reduce water change time

hope this helps


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

eug said:


> I'm also a Monday water-changer! Just did mine a couple hours ago. I add fertilizer right after the water change though (or even mixing it into the new water). Is there any particular reason why you wait until Tuesday to add fertilizer?


I use a conditioner that detoxifies heavy metals, and these include iron, copper, nickel, zinc and manganese which are plant nutrients found in Flourish. Seachem advised me that Prime (and similar conditioners) would detoxify these nutrients for about 24-36 hours at which point it becomes ineffective, so it is advisable to wait a day before adding trace elements. May be over-cautious, but waiting a day doesn't hurt if i can remember.

I would use a conditioner that does not touch metals, but can't find one i can afford.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Water changes also remove hormones and pheromones from the water, which can be problematic depending on the stock. It also replenishes nutrients, again, depending on the specifics of the tank.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> with the large tanks u describe i really doubt they need weekly changes presuming they are planted


It is true that live plants do impact on this due to their natural water filtration capacity, but at the level most of us stock our tanks with fish, this is not a safe practice.



> so lets say you have 4 50+gal tanks i would do one a week perfectly acceptable and less stressful for your fish
> 
> personally i never change water unless the nitrates get too high for my liking
> other than removing approx 15 litre to clean my filters i dont ever change water without a v good reason


As jaysee correctly mentioned, there are important reasons for weekly water changes. Using higher nitrates as a reason is not advisable, since by the time the nitrates have risen the damage to the fish has been done. And contrary to what one may read elsewhere, nitrates do harm fish long-term.

Stress of not doing water changes is much more significant that any stress from a water change. As most of us have learned over the years, fish become used to them, and some will even "welcome" the process. If you are in the tank but not chasing after the fish, they learn that it is not a danger.

The stuff you cannot measure that accumulates in an aquarium from fish has to be removed, there is no other way to handle it. Those of us who have worked in sealed offices with "air conditioning" but no opening windows know what this is like compared to fresh air from an open window. In the closed aquarium this is magnified many times. Stale water is detrimental to all fish, and the daily accumulation of stuff worsens it daily.




> also although plants enjoy neutriants from a water change they also feed and need nitrates
> 
> weekly changes on large tanks will leave nitrate levels extreamly low for your plants to thrive


While some plants will take up nitrates, most prefer nitrogen as ammonium which they grab from ammonia and plants can out-compete Nitrosomonas bacteria for the ammonia. Studies have shown that once the ammonia is insufficient, many plants turn to nitrite and then nitrate. Those with high-tech planted tanks dose nitrates since this is safer than dosing ammonia or nitrite, and the additional nitrogen is essential to balance. But there may be a toll on the fish.


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## bohmert (May 26, 2012)

What is this python thing i am looking to make wter changes easier. Husband is disabled and i have been doing this by buckets and hard for me to carry.


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

Byron said:


> It is true that live plants do impact on this due to their natural water filtration capacity, but at the level most of us stock our tanks with fish, this is not a safe practice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i struggle to get any nitrates if they are the tinyest bit over 5ppm i give fish a starve day if above say 8ish ppm i would change but they never get near that 2-4ppm at a guess is my avrg 

and yes i use a api master test kit of the chemical kind


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

bohmert said:


> What is this python thing i am looking to make wter changes easier. Husband is disabled and i have been doing this by buckets and hard for me to carry.


It's a water changer. It hooks upto the faucet and drains/refills the tank. I don't know if they are available anymore, but aqueon still makes one.


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

bohmert said:


> What is this python thing i am looking to make wter changes easier. Husband is disabled and i have been doing this by buckets and hard for me to carry.


a syphon is just a pipe you would use to fill your bucket most gravel vacuums have either 10 or 12 mm pipe the diy one i mentioned uses 20mm which would fill a bucket very fast i use large 25 litre buckets maybe this would be big overkill for a typical sized bucket


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

jaysee said:


> It's a water changer. It hooks upto the faucet and drains/refills the tank. I don't know if they are available anymore, but aqueon still makes one.


a syphon takes water under its own steam 

what you refer to uses a filter


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

bohmert said:


> What is this python thing i am looking to make wter changes easier. Husband is disabled and i have been doing this by buckets and hard for me to carry.


This is a hose apparatus that attaches directly to a faucet (much lke a garden hose) and the water pressure from the faucet causes a siphon to drain the tank water, and then switching the valve allows you to fill the tank. You squirt in the conditioner prior to or as you start filling.

ÈPythonÈ is a brand name but one that is now used for the apparatus. I myself prefer the Aqueon model, the faucet valve unit is better made (my Python models broke twice but my Aqueon has lasted). Here is a link to the Aqueon site:
Aqueon Aquarium Water Changer | Products

You do need a faucet with threads; the modern kitchen and bath faucets usually do not have these. I attach mine to the laundry sink faucet.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

madyotto said:


> a syphon takes water under its own steam
> 
> what you refer to uses a filter


No, it does not use a filter.... Look it up. Or read Byron's explanation.


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

jaysee said:


> No, it does not use a filter.... Look it up.


neither here or there i just mean this is not what i was describing 

your on about python i meant the good old suck on the pipe and fill your bucket syphon


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## pop (Aug 29, 2012)

Hello:What works for me is when 4 to 6 inches of water has evaporated from the tank I remove about 10 to 20 gallons of water and add fresh water. It's 40 or 50 gallon tank.


I must be of the ole school of fish keepers I am surprised that you might use a sump pump. If pumping large volume of water was my goal I would consider using a marine submersible pump with 1 1/2 output and a car batter for power. one word of caution be fast the pump could move a lot of water. pop


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## madyotto (Mar 24, 2012)

pop said:


> Hello:What works for me is when 4 to 6 inches of water has evaporated from the tank I remove about 10 to 20 gallons of water and add fresh water. It's 40 or 50 gallon tank.
> 
> 
> I must be of the ole school of fish keepers I am surprised that you might use a sump pump. If pumping large volume of water was my goal I would consider using a marine submersible pump with 1 1/2 output and a car batter for power. one word of caution be fast the pump could move a lot of water. pop


im no noob i work for my lfs and if using 20mm syphon isnt ott enough car batt etc really


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

I do SW water changes (210 and 120gal) usually on Saturday evenings, and all the FW changes (55, 20,20, 10) on Sunday or Monday. If I am still energized on Saturday, I do them all in one fun-filled day. Having absolutely no social life has really improved my general care and maintenence of my tanks.

I use the Python for refilling, more than for removing water. I find that a shorter siphon hose dropped straight down into a bucket has more pulling force than the python, given the water pressure in my home. Sometimes, weather permitting, I am able to throw the end of the Python into the garden and use the water from the FW tanks to water the trees. Of course SW goes down the plumbing not to the lawn.

I like Pythons in that they save our backs. I dislike the collateral waste of water that is necessary when they are used to remove water from tank to sink via adapter.

I use a pump to move new water from mixing buckets to SW aquariums, or let a siphon drop water from the mixing buckets into the sump, and monitor the water level, turning the return pumps on occasionally so as not to overflow.

Izzy: You will get very quick, too quick at this chore and *my main advice is to slow down and be methodical.* In my own case, other maintenance projects like cleaning glass canopies, replacing filter media or trying to restart a stubborn power head or propeller pump REALLY SHOULD WAIT until you are done changing water. *Multi-tasking in this context is asking for wet carpeting and worse. . . *

I confess that I once did a large-scale water change on an African tank and FORGOT TO ADD DECHLORINATOR until the tank was nearly completely re-filled and fish were gasping in distress. *Due to my negligence in this case, I lost two beautiful wild caught Synodontis multipunctatus and a gorgeous male Copadichromis borleyii I had raised from a juvenile. Fish losses do not usually bring me to tears, but they did that day.*


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Here's the thing about evaporation - it raises the concentrations of what's contained in the water left in the tank....


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Exactly. In waiting for evaporation to occur to this extent, minerals and wastes could become concentrated or, depending on the number of growing fish in the tank, water could become completely degraded and void of dissolved minerals, making the water softer and more acidic than what will replace it. I attend to and replace even a half inch of evaporated water. Waiting this long between water changes would make me feel as though I weren't doing them frequently enough. Aesthetically, aurally, visually, I couldn't take it to let the water get that low.


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## eug (May 18, 2012)

sidluckman said:


> I do SW water changes (210 and 120gal) usually on Saturday evenings, and all the FW changes (55, 20,20, 10) on Sunday or Monday. If I am still energized on Saturday, I do them all in one fun-filled day. Having absolutely no social life has really improved my general care and maintenence of my tanks.
> 
> I use the Python for refilling, more than for removing water. I find that a shorter siphon hose dropped straight down into a bucket has more pulling force than the python, given the water pressure in my home. Sometimes, weather permitting, I am able to throw the end of the Python into the garden and use the water from the FW tanks to water the trees. Of course SW goes down the plumbing not to the lawn.
> 
> ...


Sad story, Sid. Makes me glad that I live in Berlin where we have great ground water that requires no chorination at all. It's also nice to be able to drink tap water that doesn't remind you of swimming pools!


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

It is my goal in all cases is to allow people to benefit from my hammerheaded errors. 

It truly would be swell if, in 45 years, I never did a stupid thing that resulted in the unnecessary loss of fish.

In fact, it would be swell if this were the only such hammerheaded incident in my resume'. Such is not the case. But this was a pretty epic fail, even for me.

As I recall, I was out on the porch having a smoke at the time while my fish were inside receiving water laced with toxic chlorine. Irony!

I gave up smoking eight years ago, but I am sure I am yet capable of future blunders where water changes are concerned. Stay tuned.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

A lot of great advice here, everyone! Pumps to refill and not rushing things. Randy, I had an incident like that, too (well minus the smoking), but I managed to catch it before too late. I've also heard of cases like that where people are doing water changes on their koi ponds and forget the dechlorinator. Another day worthy of tears. 

I love my python water change system, too. But I dislike all the water wasted when I use it. I have to for two tanks simply because of their placement. I try to make it up by sending all of the changed water from my filthy goldfish tank to the lawn. Best lawn on the block! 

For those of you who have to mix water before you put it into the tank, what kind of buckets do you use?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Pumps to drain


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

I use the 5 gallon buckets in which marine salt is packaged. These buckets can be purchased (minus the pretty illustrations) at any home improvement store.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

And pumps to drain for the tanks sitting closer to the floor!! Forgot about that one. So pumps are a good help either way. I'll be certain to get more pumps when I get my larger tanks. 

Randy, here is the million dollar question, how many of those 5 gal buckets do you need in a water change?


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Well, I am an idiot:jester:, so I still mix salt water in separate 5 gallon buckets. I used 15 buckets yesterday for SW. I want to get two sturdy plastic 40 gallon garbage cans on wheels and mix in those instead. Then I could prepare several days in advance, instead of 24 hours in advance, and throw a recirculating pump in there to do the job right.

I was changing about 20 percent of each tank, so. . .yeah, I needed at least 65 gallons of water. I had done larger water changes the week before.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

The only way I can see using a pump to fill the tank is if you are moving it from a holding tank.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Because I'm not too sure where I will be living when I finally get my large setups, I might need to make mixtures with RO. I love the softwater fish and if I'm living in an area with rock hard water, I will need to soften my water. 

:lol: Randy, you are crazy! That's a ton of buckets!!


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

So of us dose nitrate, cuz yes its hard to maintain nitrate in a densely planted tank. If you do a heavy fertilizer regime 50% weekly water changes are kinda required. Then I bump nitrate up to 20ppm after ever water change. And thats just one of 5 fertilizers. 

I know quite a few ppl do water changes without dechlor, but depends on your tap water and the size of the water change. At my old apartment I wouldn't worry if I forgot dechlor since it was chlorinated weakly, my new place has chloramines and they are pretty heavy.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

*Jaysee:* I was planning to put a pump in the 40 gallon mixing "drum" (a heavy duty garbage can on castors), wheel that sucker up to my aquarium, put the hose into the sump or aquarium and pump away. Sound like a plan?

*Mikaila: *If we are doing smaller scale water changes we can often "get away with" not using dechlorinator. But since my hammerheaded fish killing goof up 15 years ago I don't feel much like gambling anymore, regardless.

*Izzy: *"crazy". Guity as charged!


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

sidluckman said:


> Jaysee, I was planning to put a pump in the 40 gallon mixing "drum" (a heavy duty garbage can on castors), wheel that sucker up to my aquarium, put the hose into the sump or aquarium and pump away. Sound like a plan?


I would just get a powerful enough pump and a long enough hose as to not have to move the drum.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

You young kids always want to do things the easy way!

Yes. Since this is a "fantasy" for me at this point, that would make sense.

And I would be able to afford it.

If I pumped into the sump instead of the tank, I wouldnt have to use such a powerful pump. Even a big ol siphon might work. Hmn. Jaysee, I like how you think.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

No nonsense


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

It would seem that the Python fills the tank with chlorinated water.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

cwmorrow said:


> It would seem that the Python fills the tank with chlorinated water.


Yes, but you add the dechlorinator (conditioner) when you start the refill and these products work instantly. I have fish that like to swim in the current from the Python, and they wouldn't be doing that if the chlorine was burning their gills.


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

Byron said:


> Yes, but you add the dechlorinator (conditioner) when you start the refill and these products work instantly. I have fish that like to swim in the current from the Python, and they wouldn't be doing that if the chlorine was burning their gills.


I trust you, but that seems that it would be difficult to get the right amount in.
How much water can one change safely with that method?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

cwmorrow said:


> I trust you, but that seems that it would be difficult to get the right amount in.
> How much water can one change safely with that method?


I have 20g, 29g, 33g, 70g, 90g and 115g aquaria that I change half the water each week using the Python. I squirt in conditioner sufficient for half the tank, probably a bit over as I don't measure it accurately. My tap water is fairly heavily chlorinated too.


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

Byron said:


> I have 20g, 29g, 33g, 70g, 90g and 115g aquaria that I change half the water each week using the Python. I squirt in conditioner sufficient for half the tank, probably a bit over as I don't measure it accurately. My tap water is fairly heavily chlorinated too.


Wow.
I through that stuff away when it comes my way.
What brand? I'll give this a try.

I have three 55s now and it is a pain.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

cwmorrow said:


> Wow.
> I through that stuff away when it comes my way.
> What brand? I'll give this a try.
> 
> I have three 55s now and it is a pain.


Throw what stuff away--water conditioner (dechlorinator)?

Which conditioner to use is up to you, but should be based on what you need. In other words, what is in the tap water that needs handling. Most of us on municipal water in NA have chlorine in our water, and every conditioner out there will handle this. Next is chloramine, which many (but not all) municipalities also use, so if yours does, the conditioner must be able to deal with chloramine (many do, but not all).

Beyond the above (which is usually the most serious and often only issues), there are conditioners that detoxify heavy metals, and most will do this. It can be argued that this is not needed at all, unless you are on private well water which could contain more of these than you want. Municipal water must meet regulated guidelines for minerals like copper and iron, so if present they will normally be what we term trace amounts which are harmless to people. However, some may be harmful to fish. Live plants will deal with this at the levels one might find in municipal water. But without live plants, a conditioner that detoxifies heavy metals can be useful if you have them.

Then we come to the nitrogen compounds ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. It is possible to have one or more of these in municipal water, again at safe levels for humans but which may cause an influx of whichever in a fish tank. Some conditioners will handle ammonia; these will say so on the label. As for nitrite I know of only two, Prime and Ultimate; and only Prime handles nitrate.

One other issue is slime coat; some conditioners say they replenish the fish's natural slime coat by this or that means. One can argue how useful this is, and if it is being done chemically it may be more harm than good.

Obviously the more a conditioner handles, the more chemicals in it, and these add TDS (total dissolved solids) to the tank water. Plus, I am not a fan of adding any chemical to a fish tank unless it is essential. So my advise is to determine what you need to handle your tap water, and use the least expensive that will fit the bill. In my case with only chlorine, I have a lot of options, and frankly I go with the least expensive that doesn't carry side effects. For example, i tried Big Al's and it was fine except it left the tank cloudy for one to two days, just a haze but sufficient that it was quite noticeable. I am now using Nutrafin because i can get it online in the large size and save a lot. For years I used Kordon's, but it is now more expensive for me, and I need to count the dollars.

Another option for only chlorine is the chemical sodium thiosulfate which is the basic ingredient in most (if not all) conditioners, and i know some of our members buy this and use it as it can be less expensive.

Byron.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

I think another consideration is not just the price per ml, but the concentration.
Personally, I don't need it, but I like Prime, especially at 2 drops/gallon - 5ml per 50 gallons. It may cost a little more, but goes twice as far as some cheaper competing products. Worth the mention I think.


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

Thanks, Byron.
I'll ask the water company what they put in and I have to take out.

Wayne


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

AbbeysDad said:


> I think another consideration is not just the price per ml, but the concentration.
> Personally, I don't need it, but I like Prime, especially at 2 drops/gallon - 5ml per 50 gallons. It may cost a little more, but goes twice as far as some cheaper competing products. Worth the mention I think.


Yes, that is a very valid point. All of the conditioners I have used suggest 1 teaspoon (=5ml) per 10 gallons. But there is the issue of adding all those unnecessary (for me) chemicals to deal with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and I simply do not want those in my tanks. If i didn't have plants, or had any of these in my source water (as I know you do) that would be very different.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Byron said:


> Yes, that is a very valid point. All of the conditioners I have used suggest 1 teaspoon (=5ml) per 10 gallons. But there is the issue of adding all those unnecessary (for me) chemicals to deal with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and I simply do not want those in my tanks. If i didn't have plants, or had any of these in my source water (as I know you do) that would be very different.


I guess it depends on how you look at it. I don't know what the active ingredients are that detoxify ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for 24-48 hours - Seachem indicates there is nothing extra, that this was an unexpected bonus of the product - ?
Looking at it differently, compared to Prime, at 5ml/10g, one would be adding 5x the chemical conditioner to handle chlorine. Perhaps merely a matter of concentration, or perhaps more of some other chemical to do the same job?

_Note that I do not currently use Prime as my well water is not chlorinated. On the other hand, due to very high nitrates in my well water, I have to use filtered, DI or rain water and treat with Seachem Replenish for minerals and Seachem Neutral/Alkaline Regulators for pH.
(I'd think I'd rather deal with chlorine!)_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

AbbeysDad said:


> I guess it depends on how you look at it. I don't know what the active ingredients are that detoxify ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for 24-48 hours - Seachem indicates there is nothing extra, that this was an unexpected bonus of the product - ?
> Looking at it differently, compared to Prime, at 5ml/10g, one would be adding 5x the chemical conditioner to handle chlorine. Perhaps merely a matter of concentration, or perhaps more of some other chemical to do the same job?


It may be more the concentration than volume. Most dechlorinators use sodium thiosulfate, and some of our members actually buy this on its own and mix it with water which is less expensive than most prepared conditioners. There must be something else in Prime that mysteriously detoxifies nitrite/nitrate and binds ammonia, because these other conditioners with just the st do not.


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## SusanB (Aug 24, 2012)

Forgive me for being dense, but I am confused about the python. I understand that you can refill your tank with it but will the dechlorinator work on the tap water when you put it into the tank first? 

If I had a python, I could dose the tank with dechlorinator and then fill er up? It seems like a scary proposition; but I don't understand how long the dechlorinators work after being added to the tank.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

SusanB said:


> Forgive me for being dense, but I am confused about the python. I understand that you can refill your tank with it but will the dechlorinator work on the tap water when you put it into the tank first?
> 
> If I had a python, I could dose the tank with dechlorinator and then fill er up? It seems like a scary proposition; but I don't understand how long the dechlorinators work after being added to the tank.


Yes, the dechlorinator added to the tank will instantly neutralize chlorine in the tap water entering the tank, as it enters. I have used a Python for over 15 years now, and I start the tank refill at the faucet, then go back to the tank and squirt in the conditioner. Or you can squirt it in first, then refill. Only in very small tanks, like my 10g, do I not use the Python, because it fills too fast.:lol:

Conditioners tend to remain effective for 24-36 hours.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Byron said:


> It may be more the concentration than volume. Most dechlorinators use sodium thiosulfate, and some of our members actually buy this on its own and mix it with water which is less expensive than most prepared conditioners. There must be something else in Prime that mysteriously detoxifies nitrite/nitrate and binds ammonia, because these other conditioners with just the st do not.


From Seachem:
"_

Prime
*Product Description*
Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime® converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Prime® also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime® is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime® will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.

Sizes: 50 mL, 100 mL, 250 mL, 500 mL, 2 L, 4 L, 20 L

*Why It's Different*
Nearly all companies manufacture a product that removes chlorine. None of those, however, can compare in quality, concentration, or effectiveness to Seachem’s flagship product: Prime®. Prime® is the second most concentrated dechlorinator on the market after our own aquavitro alpha™. A single 100 mL bottle will treat 1000 US gallons of tap water. Prime® will remove both chlorine and chloramines from municipal water supplies. 
Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.
Be very careful when purchasing water conditioners. If your municipality includes chloramines in the water supplies, a standard sodium thiosulfate dechlorinator is not enough. Prime® promotes the natural production and restoration of the slime coat rather than relying on artificial or non-native slime compounds. A further bonus for the reef hobbyist—Prime® will not overactivate protein skimmers.

*Directions*
Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. This removes approximately 1 mg/L ammonia, 4 mg/L chloramine, or 5 mg/L chlorine. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose._"

Although detoxification only lasts 24-48 hours, since ammonia and nitrites are toxic even to nitrisomonas and nitrobacter, detoxification during the cycling process may be a distinct advantage.

(Disclaimer: I have absolutely no affiliation with Seachem)


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

SusanB said:


> Forgive me for being dense, but I am confused about the python. I understand that you can refill your tank with it but will the dechlorinator work on the tap water when you put it into the tank first?
> 
> If I had a python, I could dose the tank with dechlorinator and then fill er up? It seems like a scary proposition; but I don't understand how long the dechlorinators work after being added to the tank.


One consideration....some use enough conditioner for the total volume of water in the tank. Others using a Python or hose refill, merely add enough to treat the water being added. For the dilution that will occur, I think it may be safer to add an amount of conditioner to treat the entire tank. Of course if you treat outside the tank, only the amount for the new water is required and as Byron points out, dechlorination is pretty much immediate.


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

cwmorrow said:


> Thanks, Byron.
> I'll ask the water company what they put in and I have to take out.
> 
> Wayne


Chlorine, Fluoride and lime.
Looks like I'm good to go.
Thanks!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

cwmorrow said:


> Chlorine, Fluoride and lime.
> Looks like I'm good to go.
> Thanks!


Not sure what "good to go" means in context here, so will just say that with chlorine in your source water you do need a water conditioner but it can be the most basic (dechlorinator only).


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

Byron said:


> will just say that with chlorine in your source water you do need a water conditioner but it can be the most basic (dechlorinator only).


That's what I meant.


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

Okay, this is very cool.
I bought the Aqueon water changer. It leaks about the faucet, I'm going to try and find a brass replacement for the fitting and use teflon tape.
I did the two fifties in the fish room, put a thermometer in the sink, adjusted the temperature, and after syphoning less than twenty gallons out, put in 1 ml of API water conditioner turned the appropriate valves on.

Again, this is very cool.

Thanks, Byron and all.


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