# Mah Tank (Yeah another one)



## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

ok, So heres the deal. I went out and bought a tank, stand, filter, heater, rocks, air knife, air pump, light, vacuum and water conditioning chemicals.

THAT being said, i like your stickies as they are very informative and helpfull. On the forum im from nobody reads stickies and its irritating to get the same questions over and over. So i feel your pain on this one.

I just want some reassurance im doing the right thing 

Im doing a fishless cycle, but there doesnt seem to be enough info for me so im hoping someone can clear it up. Ive had everything going since yesterday (yeah im that new). Right now i dont have any kind of "habitat" stuff, just bottom rocks. Should i put them in for a while before adding fish?

I know i need to let the bacteria grow and all that, but how long am i really waiting for? I dont wanna really be killing fish. Also, can someone reccommend me a good test kit so i dont have to run back and forth to petsmart all the time?

Anything im missing? I dunno, i think im pretty well covered so far.


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## lynneticknor (Nov 8, 2008)

I am new at this too, but I've learned a lot from reading the very helpful people on this forum. I have a planted 10 gallon set up and only lost one fish (a neon tetra) in the process. 

Others can correct me if my advice is incorrect, but here are my quick answers to your questions:

- I would put whatever else you are going to put into the tank (plants, driftwood, rocks, etc.) before adding fish.

- For test kits, I like the API Master Test Kit. Freshwater Master Test Kit 
I don't know if this is the cheapest place you can find it at, but it is much cheaper here than what I paid at my lfs 

- I'm not sure exactly how long you'll have to wait for your tank to cycle. It depends upon your water levels which you can determine on a daily basis after you get your test kit. But, I'd say it'll be a few weeks, at least. If you just can't wait to add a fish or two, add them VERY gradually (like 1 or 2 per week) and start out with hearty fish that can withstand the cycling process.

Others with more experience than I have can correct me or add their insight! I'm still learning but I thought I'd chime in anyway.

Good luck!


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

That test kit was like $27 at the petsmart i went to, so $17 doesnt sound too bad


Another thing, looking at pictures of your tank, they look so clear. My water has like a blue/green tint to it. Its had it since i put the water in there. Anything i can do for that, or is it just time.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

I guess i cant edit my post in here, i was trying to edit so i didnt have so many post in a row but its fine.

heres what i look like so far 







The bar in the back is uneven, the rocks are messy and its not filled all the way. When i put the bar and rocks in the water was too cold so i just wanted to get it in there and fix it later.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hello 
i'm in agreement,get all the decor into the tank befor the fish,
less stress for you and even less for the fish, 
if you have any friends with a tropical or cold water tank,ask them
for a sponge or other filter media from their tank,put it into
your filter and you can add some fish.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

ok, decor before fish, but how long before?

Also, Sponge in my filter? Put something other then the carbon filter thats suppose to go in it?


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## TrashmanNYC (Nov 27, 2007)

Burninator said:


> ok, decor before fish, but how long before?
> 
> Also, Sponge in my filter? Put something other then the carbon filter thats suppose to go in it?


 you really dont need the carbon unless you are removing meds........


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

ok, so just a regular sponge that doesnt have the scrubber side?


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## TrashmanNYC (Nov 27, 2007)

its a fish tank specific type of sponge


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

You can put all of the decor and whatnot in the tank as soon as you'd like. Actually, the earlier the better, because more decor = more surfaces for bacteria to grow on. If you can get decor (artificial, driftwood, rocks, live plants, anything really) from an established tank that could help your cycle move faster. 

You can bury that bubble wand under your gravel if you like. The bubbles will still come up but it'll look like they're just coming up out of the gravel and you won't see the bar.

Keep in mind that you need to have some ammonia source in the tank at all times during the cycle. Putting in some fish food every day, or using pure ammonia (make sure it's 100% pure and doesn't have any sort of fragrances or anything like that), or even putting in an uncooked shrimp will create an ammonia source that will cycle the tank.

Filters have to have some sort of filter media in them. Some use sponges, some use bioballs or ceramic rings, some use filter floss - all of these materials will have tons of bacteria growing on them in an established tank, so if you know someone with an established tank you can ask them for some of this media and stick it in your filter to help your tank cycle.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

I dont really know anyone in my area who has a tank, so thats really not an option.

Im going to bury that want whenever i go to put more decor in there. The fewer times i have to stick my hands in the cold water the better. lol

Can someone link me to a sponge. I want to make sure im getting the right thing. The filter i have has these big carbon filters to go with them.

Does it matter what kind of fish food i put in there? Isnt that also going to make the water rather murky since its just going to decay? How much should i be putting.

Excuse my ignorance, i just wanna make sure im doing it right. If there is a write up ill more then happily read it. I looked through the stickies but i didnt really see anything talking about this. Thanks!


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

Tetra Whisper EX20 Carbon Filters - Filtration & Circulation - Fish - PetSmart
Thats the kind of filters i have in there right now. Its floss with carbon.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hi
i can't seem to find your filter on google:-(
you don't need carbon,unless ou are clearing the tank form
medications really.
how come you water is cold,what temperature is it ?


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

well at the time of the picture the water was around 60, because i hadnt turned on the heater yet.

Now the tank is around 78, but thats still colder then what it is outside.

My actual filter is Tetra Whisper EX45 Carbon Filters. If you could help me find just a regular non carbon filter that would fit that i could go with that.

You didnt really answer my question about the food. How much should i be putting in and what kind.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

You should be adding in any kind of fish food and enough of it to get an ammonia reading after a couple of days. Honestly it's impossible to tell you exactly how much, but a decent sized pinch every day should be good. Yes, it will make your tank really gross, but since you'll need to do a big water change before you add fish anyway you can vacuum out the rotten food when you do that change. 

The Tetra filter you have is Tetra's brand new line of filters so it might be difficult to find different options for filter cartridges. After looking at it just now online, it seems like they've made it so the filter floss and sponge materials are separated from the carbon filter cartridge. What, exactly, does the carbon filter cartridge look like? If it's some sort of basket or plastic frame, you might be able to replace it with filter floss, filter sponge or even an old-style Tetra bio-bag.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I'm a little concerned about the filter on the aquarium. From reading the thread I don't see any mention of a biological filtration source... only carbon and floss.

What type of filter do you have?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

The Tetra EX45 seems to have a weird cartridge system - one area has two grades of floss - one finer for mechanical filtration and one more course to act as a bio-sponge. Drs. Foster and Smith doesn't offer replacement cartridges for these, so I get the feeling Tetra has designed the filter so that these never get replaced. Although I wouldn't say that's ideal (you do need to replace them when they start to fall apart and you at least need to rinse them in used aquarium water from time to time to keep them from clogging up) it's certainly better than their old system, where the entire filter cartridge was meant to be replaced on a regular basis. The only part that they seem to want you to change out at regular intervals is the carbon cartridge. Of course, if you're an advocate of carbon use, you'd want to change this out at least monthly, but if you're an anti-carbonite like myself, you'd want to find a way to replace it with more bio media like filter sponge material or loosely packed filter floss.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

There are replacement filters. I got 2 just in case i needed them so i wouldnt have to try and get them in a rush. 

Its basically a plastic clam shell that holds the filter in place. The filter is floss with a carbon filter in the middle. I could take the filter out and cut something to fit in there if i really wanted to.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

I wasnt really sure what type of food i should buy so i just bought some generic tropical fish food.

Im going to wait to start putting it in until i get the test kit and hear word about the filter from you guys. 

Thanks for all the help thus far!


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hi
one of the other guys will help about the filter 
as i've got canister one on my tank.
fish food: yep that's ok what you have,it dosen't have to be
anything fancy,tropical flakes are just fine.
 good luck with the fishless cycle.
post your test results and we'll be able to see how you
are getting on. 
you could raise the temperature to 79/80f.
just remember to resurch the fish you wish to keep,as some of them
will require lower heat.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

yeah, its warmer now.

Once i get a little more money im going to get the rocks, plants, and test kit then start cycling. Ill keep you guys updated.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hi
yes,please


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

I have a question on water changes. When you do a water change, do you just put regular water right back in? or should i put water conditioner in it first or how should i do that?


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hi
i fill my large container with tap water,then add the dechlorinator.
give it a stir,then do the water change.
HTH


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

ah, so you dont even wait for very long? I figured this would be something i would need to prep for. Like have 5-10 gallons ready. lol


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hi
nope you should be good to go straight off,once your conditioner
is in.i would however be aware of temperature though, if there
is too much difference you can shock your fish,
some of us drop the temp of the new water to encourage our
corydora catfish to spawn.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

sweet

Thanks for all the help


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

ok, so i buried the bubble wand this morning. Im not going to lie, it came unstuck from the side, lol.

ok, so now there are fewer but bigger bubbles. Does that matter? I mean, obviously the rocks are going to restrict it a little, but i just wanna make sure im not harming health for astetichs.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

don't worry about the size of the bubbles. 
at a later stage you could always change to air stones,they can sit on top
of the gravel,and be hidden by decor.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

I was looking around at fish to get an idea. What do you guys think about fish combinations?

I really wanna get a red finned shark but i dont know if its going to get too big for my 40gal. Any thoughts on what i should be looking into? I wanna make sure i get plenty of research time in.


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hi
well the shark can grow to around 6in (15 cm)and will probably be agressive.
i have not owned one so perhaps other people will let you know how they
get on.it's ment to have a planted tank,with wood and caves to hide in.
i guess it all depends on what you want 
corydora catfish are fun to keep,small plecs,tetras.livebarers.
that list can be housed together,however i'm not the one to reccomend stock levels.
and most of those fish apart from the plec need to be in a reasonable size group
to get the best show from them.
perhaps make a "wish list" and the other members will help sort out the best and the amount.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

This is a 40g tank? There are a heck of a lot of fish options for a tank of that size, so I'll agree with willow in that you should get yourself a wish list of fish you like, and we can tell you which ones will work out. Is this a 40g breeder? Let me see if I can find a thread where a TON of awesome suggestions were given...

Here we go. This was written by our member tophat665, so if you use any of these, be sure to thank him:


> What kind of 40 is it? Long, wide, or high? That'll be a good place to start.
> 
> What kind of water do you have? Hard or soft? Sour or Basic? That's a good place to start too, because it's best to go with fish that will thrive in your tapwater with minimal treatment.
> 
> ...


About the shark: a 40g tank should be fine for a red tailed black shark or a red-finned (also called rainbow) shark. These guys are incredibly aggressive against their own species so only get one of either type (the two species don't get along with each other, either). They're also known to get in disputes with other territorial bottom dwelling fish, but should be fine with any mid to top dwelling fish and any peaceful bottom dwellers.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

Its a 40 gallon, 36" wide, 20" tall and 12 deep. Its a euro curved front. (i think thats what its called)

I need to test the water. I dont think its hard though. I think we have a softner.

Planting im assuming live plants, I would rather not mess with that for my first tank. I have a light that came with the tank. I have a tetra ex45 filter. Im planning on doing artificial rock/driftwood and plants. Nothing is in there yet.

I dont have any fish yet. I really like the red tailed shark, i think its interesting and have always been facinated with sharks. I also want some kind of algae eating fish to help control algae.


The shark im talking about is Epalzeorhynchos bicolor not Epalzeorhynchos frenatus. One is the black shark with red tail, the other is a rainbow shark


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

Redtail Shark (one)
72-79° F, pH 6.5-7.5, KH 10-15

Clown Loach (one maybe a pair)
72-86° F, pH 6.0-7.5, KH 8-12

Tiger Barb (A couple to school)
74-79° F, pH 6.0-7.0, KH 4-10

I need a plec that can live in those specs as well. I dont wanna spend alot of money on a plec though TBH.

I like colorfull fish. lololol. I got this info off another site. Another site i was reading on said i should be fine with loaches, plecs, and barbs. Anything else i might look into? I dont want to overstock either.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't get the loaches. Clown loaches get absolutely huge - 12" or more, I've seen 15" lunkers - and need to be in schools of six or more to thrive. I would stick to a smaller species of loach, like Botio kubotai or Botia striata. Both need to be kept in groups of at least six. There *could* be problems between any sort of loach and the red-tailed shark, so watch out for it and be prepared to move or return some fish if need be. The tiger barbs should work fine, but you'd want a school of at least six of them. The more the merrier, actually. Any of the smaller pleco species like the bristlenose, clown or rubber lip plecos should be fine. Just be sure you put some driftwood in the tank for the pleco to gnaw on. Also, between the shark, the pleco, and the loaches, be sure you've got *plenty* of caves and other hiding spaces so that everyone can be happy. Lots of rock piles would be great. 

In a tank your size, I would say you could get away with the shark, a half dozen of the loaches I mentioned, the small pleco, and a dozen tiger barbs.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

Alright, i has plants and rocks. I added my fish food. How many days should i be adding it?

I also got my test kit and obviously everything will be 0 but my PH and high range PH are kinda high. its 7.6 and 8.2 How do i lower this? or will it lower once it cycles


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

little update on my tank.










plenty of rock and hiding. 

This is really starting to add up. lol. I think ive paid about $400 for everything but the fish, tank, and stand. Thank god im on the last leg. lol


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

If you get a red tailed shark there are some ways to keep him happy and docile.

1) Lots of hiding places. The RTBS will pick out a territory centered on a good hiding spot like a cave or piece of driftwood. He will then defend it. Problems occur in RTBS tanks when another territorial bottom dweller is added, the two will butt heads and it will probably result in the death of one of the fish. Due to the shape of my tank I had to give up on my idea of both a RTBS and a pair of german blue rams.
2) Lots of cover. Its a good idea to have a lot of cover in your tank, plants and things of that nature that break up sight lines through the tank. This will help to keep the RTBS's territory to as small a size as possible since he knows he can't defend what he can't see.
3) Get the shark young. Don't be tempted by the 3 or 4 inch specimens you might see. Find the smallest healthy looking shark you can and buy them. A small young shark is going to be less aggressive then an older large one. If he starts out in the tank small with the other fish he can grow up feeling secure and used to the other inhabitants and will be less likely to lash out at them.
4) Add him last. By adding your RTBS last it lets other fish stake out their territories. It also brings the shark into an established tank with fish already in it. He'll be more cautious. If the shark goes in first there's a good chance he will decide the entire tank is his, and that's not good for your other fish.
5) Add ONE. I can't stress this enough. One shark, regardless of the variety, is it. Red tailed, Rainbow, Albino, pick one and only one. They are not a social species and will regard another shark as a threat. Think male betta here.

A few other things, RTBS are not unlike corys, they're bottom feeding scavengers. The kind of diet that you feed a cory is pretty solid for a RTBS though some vegetable matter is good as the RTBS is an omnivore.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

I really appreciate the insight, especially since i see that you own an RTBS. I was reading your blog/site the other day. Very interesting. 

Thankfully, Most of what you said adds up to what i had read in many other places. Do you think i will have any problems with the fish i mentioned getting earlier? With the picture i provided should i be ok as far as enough hiding places and what not that he will be ok?

Luckily, the place where im going to get him has alot of young RTBS's. How can i tell if they are healthy? Obviously if they are upside down floating at the top of the tank they arent healthy, but what should i be looking for.


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

The loaches, I'd stay away from. They can get to be monsters and you need triple digit gallonage to deal with a herd of clown loaches properly. Tiger barbs are semi-aggressive fin nippers. The good news is that they are similar to serpae tetras to a degree. They are mid level swimmers which means they are not likely to cross pathes with the shark to the point the get into territory disputes. Second if kept in large enough groups their fin nipping is generally contained amongst themselves. A RTBS's fins aren't flowing enough to get the barbs undying attention. I'd say be careful with it, after you add the RTBS watch it and the tiger barbs closely to see if they go after him. If you keep tiger barbs keep at least six, preferably more, in order to keep them happy and fighting amongst themselves.

Unfortunately there's no way to make sure the fish you bring home is truly healthy. That's what quarantine is for. In the store look for this:

1) Fins, perked up and not ragged. Clamped fins are a sign of a stressed fish, disease, tank conditions, having a bad day, whatever, it's not a good sign. Ragged fins could mean disease like fin rot, but in a RTBS tank it could just mean that fish gets picked on a lot. Getting picked on is not a deal breaker but you can't prove the cause of the ragged fins so move on.
2) No visible problems. Given their condition at sale (tweaked because of very sub par living conditions) your shark is unlikely to be dark black with a vivid red tail. My little girl was gray with a clear tail by the time she got home. What you're looking for are sores, injuries, or any white spots or visible parasites. If you see those walk away.
3) Tankmates. Don't confine your search to just the one fish you're looking at. Give everyone in the tank a once over. Like a kindergarten class room if one of them gets something they are all likely too. If you see another fish in the tank with white spots do not buy any fish from that tank. If the shop uses centralized filtration I wouldn't buy any fish from them period as the ich or whitespot could infect the entire shop. If you see diseased fish or worse dead ones in the tank you should probably either walk away or invest in a QT tank, but walk away is the best course. Really you should invest in a QT tank regardless.

Most of all be picky. Don't just take what's available. These are going to be your fish. They're going to be a considerable investment of time, money, and eventually a bit of emotion a well. 

Glad you like my blog, I've sort of committed to posting whatever happens with my tanks. As a consequence my screw ups are posted right along side my triumphs. My little girl is doing very well. I'm sure she's a girl at this point because she's darkened up nicely but her belly is still a bit gray. She's a total wuss though, the neons in the QT with her can scare her away. She's my pride and joy and one of the big reasons I decided to start keeping fish. Less than a week and she's going in my main tank, I can't wait.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

Last time i was looking i was checking out all the fish, they had 3 seperate tanks of RTBS. I guess as they get more they put them in a different tank so they all are about the same age. I noticed that some were already getting to be about an inch or so long, from reading i knew i didnt want those so i didnt really pay too much attention. They had another tank that was full of smaller ones. I mainly asked what i should look for because all of them were gray with a clear tail. I was thinking it was either because they were young or more probably the living conditions. I was kinda thinking that fish, like any other animal, when kept in less then ideal conditions would probably see some kind of behavioral change. 

On another note, with that many people saying to stay away from the loaches i guess ill cross that one off my list. Everyone so far has said to go with a half dozen tiger barbs, som im thinking thats going to be my best bet. 

Im hoping if i introduce everything first, then my RTBS last, i will have my best chance at everything coming together in harmony. Im more afraid of introducing too many fish in too long of a period then when it comes time to put the RTBS in, he gets bullied to death. 

Other then all that. Im having a problem locating a LFS that has smaller breeds of plecs. They all seem to have the ones that grow to like a foot or more. From experience, any other ideas for fish i should look into?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Have you checked the big chain stores? I've found that only really good independently owned LFS's will stock smaller pleco species, but I've seen bristlenose and rubber lip plecos for sale at Petsmart.


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

I've seen BNs at Petsmart and my LFS usually has one. Common plecos really earn their name though.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

ok, 

6 tiger barbs
1 plec
1 RTBS
Anything else i should get?

How soon should i add fish once i add a group?


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

If you cycle fishlessly I'd add the barbs, wait a week, add the plec, wait a week, add the RTBS. After adding each group of fish you need to test the water and be on the look out for an ammonia or nitrite spike. If nothing shows up then at the end of the week add the next fish. If you detect ammonia or nitrite then the usual procedure needs to be followed, daily monitoring with water changes performed to keep the levels below 0.25ppm. Only after the spike is gone and the mini-cycle over should you consider adding the next fish.

This assumes a fishless cycle that is complete. Also this doesn't include quarantining any fish which I highly recommend. The first don't need to be quarantined but every subsequent addition should be.

That's actually pretty sparse stocking for a 40 gallon tank. You could, and I'd highly recommend it, increase the size of your tiger barb school to around ten and still have plenty of room for another species if you wanted it. Have you seen green tiger barbs? Same shape and size as regular tigers but their body is an emerald green. I'm hesitant to suggest other fish because I'm not entirely sure what else could be added in with the barbs.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

yeah, I guess i could always add more barbs.

Im trying to figure out why my tank is so cloudy right now. When i take readings everything seems to be near 0 but the water is really murky. I do water changes and nothing.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

My PH is still really high too


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

How high is really high? Also is the water milky or green?

I suggest more tiger barbs regardless of what else you do just because they will do better in a larger group as aggression is spread out more and they are less likely to fell uncomfortable which can lead to acting out.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

reads around 7.6

I dunno about milky green, but def looks like someone poured milk in water.


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

7.6 isn't high, I'd kill for 7.6 out of the tap. You can keep just about any fish you please with 7.6. Ah, almost forgot. Did you only use the low range pH test? If so then your test is pegged out and not necessarily 7.6. Run the high range test as well.

Milky or green I should say. Milky is likely a bacterial bloom. It will likely clear itself up in several days.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

heh, good call.

on the high range it comes out to 8.2

Well, im glad to hear about the water then. I was getting kinda scared for a minute. Its getting really milky and i cant see the back of the tank anymore. It was somewhat bad before but now its pretty bad. Well im happy its not something more serious then.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Bacterial blooms are pretty normal for a cycling tank and since you don't have any fish in there, there's no need to worry.

However, for future reference the bacteria that cause these blooms use oxygen as part of their metabolic cycle, just like fish and other aerobic organisms do. A population explosion like that can seriously deplete oxygen levels in a fish tank. I recently had a bloom on an established tank (I still can't put my finger on why). I did a 60% or so water change as soon as I discovered it, another 50% change a few hours later right before I went to bed, and by the time I woke up in the morning the water was milky again and two fish had died. One water change later, the water was back to normal and the other fish fine. So in other words...these blooms can be serious on stocked tanks.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

well the oxygen pump im using is for a 60 gallon tank, if that matters at all


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Not really. Air pumps don't put oxygen into the water. Oxygen enters the water at the atmosphere/water surface interface. It's largely a function of surface area and the quantity of dissolved gases already in the water. The best way to increase the oxygen in the water is to agitate the surface. The ripples and waves on the surface dramatically increase the surface area and consequently the oxygen levels in the water. What your bubble bar will do is agitate the surface above it and encourage oxygenation that way.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

Alright, well the tank looks to be cleared. Now theres a nice white covering on everything including the glass and i can see all these little white floaties i never noticed before.

Should i clean all this off?


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

what if i put a dojo loach?


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

iamntbatman said:


> Bacterial blooms are pretty normal for a cycling tank and since you don't have any fish in there, there's no need to worry.
> 
> However, for future reference the bacteria that cause these blooms use oxygen as part of their metabolic cycle, just like fish and other aerobic organisms do. A population explosion like that can seriously deplete oxygen levels in a fish tank. I recently had a bloom on an established tank (I still can't put my finger on why). I did a 60% or so water change as soon as I discovered it, another 50% change a few hours later right before I went to bed, and by the time I woke up in the morning the water was milky again and two fish had died. One water change later, the water was back to normal and the other fish fine. So in other words...these blooms can be serious on stocked tanks.


That happened to me once too. I think mine was related to dosing meds though. I noticed it at night time and did a 50% water change, turned the airstone on (that darn thing is so loud! kind of made it hard to sleep!), did another 50% change in the morning, and by afternoon all was clear. And, even though my fish were already compromised they all made it.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Not sure what the white stuff is. Pictures might be helpful.

Dojo loaches are a coldwater fish, so they wouldn't mix with the tropical fish you're interested in. I can count readily available coldwater fish on one hand, so you can definitely do more with tropical species.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

well i guess ill stay away from that.

I guess it seems wierd that all that will be there is plec/barbs/shark. Seems like it will be really plain


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Tiger barbs are colorful and active and the RTBS is gorgeous. Plecs.... well they're not my cup of tea. Give it a chance first, you may be surprised.


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## zachary4311 (Dec 23, 2008)

i have a new elite 10 gal tropical tank and it has been running for 4 days with everything it needs. got a test kit and everythings fine... dont thinks its fully cycled yet. can I add 1 or 2 tiger barbs now?


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

No. Tiger barbs are schooling fish. With two tiger barbs the dominant one will probably kill the weaker one. The survivor will be stressed due to his lack of a school and adding any fish in will probably result in aggression from him. Ten gallons is not large enough for tiger barbs at all.


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## Jewels (Dec 27, 2008)

Hi there,
I've had a successful community tank for over 20 years, and the advice that I followed after a breakin destoyed the lot and I had to set up again a while back seemed to work well......
It involved introducing different species of fish gradually a few at a time, depending on what species they were. I put in the cleaners (like Bristlenose Catfish and Clown Loaches) first, and left the fussy ones like Discus' til last. Ask your stockist over the phone for advice about what sort goes in/and in what order.
As for test kits, the most essentiasl one, I think, is an Ammonia kit (to test; as too much NH4 from decayed food etc can kill the touchier fish).... Once again, ask your fish stockist, as It depends on what species you want to put in. You don't have to obsess about it, but it pays to test at least monthly.........
Another consideration is that some fish, noteably Angelfish and other cichlids, can eat smaller fish such as Neon Tetras........
Personally, I don't test Ph unless I have problems........
I am a great believer in regular (I'm talking about weekly/ unless I'm too busy) water changes, however........Just a couple of buckets of fresh water, whcih I use an old 5L cordial bottle to adjust temperature in by adding a little water from the kettle, (and it aids in counting the Litres for the chlorine neurtaliser).......and everything seems to run smoothly..............
GOOD LUCK!...and ENJOY!
Sounds like you're going the right way about things......... 
Cheers Jewels


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

clown loaches require a school or "shoal" and grow HUGE. for sure out of the question for a 10 gallon tank. Discus, out of the question in a 10 gallon tank. Angelfish out of the question for a 10 gallon tank. Most cichlids are out too. 

I recommend picking up an API master test kit if you dont already have one or something similiar. it comes with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. fish stores sell them for $25+ but you can find them online for $15-20


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

ok, well i have to give credit where credit is due. Thank you guys for all the help and advice thus far!

Well, the tank cycled, and i got fish added. 
1 trinidad plec
1 rainbow shark
6 tiger barbs
6 cherry barbs

Ok, so the cherry barb thing turned out to be a bad idea. The shark HATES them. He killed 3 of them so far. As soon as he see's them, he chases them down. However, he doesnt seem to give a second thought to the tiger barbs. Is this because of what kind of barbs they are, or does this have to do with other things? Im thinking of adding 6 green barbs, but i dont want to add them if the shark will just kill them.

Any ideas?


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## Jewels (Dec 27, 2008)

onefish2fish said:


> clown loaches require a school or "shoal" and grow HUGE. for sure out of the question for a 10 gallon tank. Discus, out of the question in a 10 gallon tank. Angelfish out of the question for a 10 gallon tank. Most cichlids are out too.
> 
> I recommend picking up an API master test kit if you dont already have one or something similiar. it comes with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. fish stores sell them for $25+ but you can find them online for $15-20


 
Hi there onefish2fish,
I wasn't specifically recommending any particular species for the tank in question, but more the concept of gradual introduction of different fish ........OK?
As for your comments, I totally agree, except that my lone/ large Clown Loach 'Hobo' (What a clown!)/ Basically seems happy and healthy on my small number of little brown snails....Don't forget that is their diet......
.........As well as fish food (I feed flakes in the morning and frozen Discus food in the afternoon).....and an occassional serve of beef heart/ brine shrimp to keep things varied......... 
Cheers Jewels


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

well hi there jewels
i wasnt directing my comment as a personal attack, i just want the original poster to be informed on stocking limitations as well as anyone else reading this thread. honestly i dont believe your clown loach is "happy" not to sound like a smarty pants but your cant ask your fish or see a smile on their face. yes, single loaches will "live" but will be more skiddish, paranoid and hide more. yes you are correct about feeding snails but they also will eat blanched veggies as well. its also good that your keeping the diet of the other tank mates "varied"
-OF2F


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## Jewels (Dec 27, 2008)

*Clown Loaches as single fish or groups*



onefish2fish said:


> well hi there jewels
> i wasnt directing my comment as a personal attack, i just want the original poster to be informed on stocking limitations as well as anyone else reading this thread. honestly i dont believe your clown loach is "happy" not to sound like a smarty pants but your cant ask your fish or see a smile on their face. yes, single loaches will "live" but will be more skiddish, paranoid and hide more. yes you are correct about feeding snails but they also will eat blanched veggies as well. its also good that your keeping the diet of the other tank mates "varied"
> -OF2F


 Hi there,
OK - point taken, my Clown Loach does do a lot of hiding, so maybe I should take your advice and get him/her a buddy, thanx for the feedback (and don't worry/ no offence taken - OK?).
I forgot to mention that I also feed blanched baby spinach leaves, which my local supermarket doesn't mind (however - I asked !) me taking slightly mangled and unsellable baby leaves out of the veggie container....I also take the ones that have fallen out of the container for free.....just a few....
But that's not generic advice/ for every supermarket/ without asking/ OK?

Cheers Jewels


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

I wanted to get a clown loach but if you read back through this thread everyone is against them because they can grow to an enormous size.

Good luck


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## mags2313 (Nov 25, 2008)

TrashmanNYC said:


> you really dont need the carbon unless you are removing meds........


Really? My filter uses all three filter media, mechanical, biological and chemical filtration and i replace the carbon inserts about every 5 weeks.


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## Burninator (Dec 3, 2008)

what kind of filter is it


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## mags2313 (Nov 25, 2008)

Marineland Canister c360


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## Tyyrlym (Jun 1, 2008)

Oh, how's that working out for you? I'm planning on getting that exact filter for my 55 gallon tank I'm gonna put african cichlids in.


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