# Need advice for companions for Black Skirt Tetras in 10 gal tank



## palnud

I am new to fish keeping. I set up and cycled a 10 gallon tank yesterday. Today I added a heater, a snail, 4 ghost shrimp and a plant. I originally wanted goldfish, but did some research and found out it is a no-no to put a goldfish in anything less than a 20 gallon. 

So..I added 3 black skirt tetras. The lady a petsmart assured me they would get along fine with the fancy male guppies I planned on adding later. Now, I am seeing that may not be such a good idea, and that black skirt tetras are on the very aggressive side of things. Advice on what else to add? I'd really like some color in there. Any and all advice is welcome, I'm not well versed in this subject.


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## TitanTDH

Hey mate and welcome. 
In my own experience with owning only one it is very aggressive. Constantly harassing the other tank mates. And killing two. You have 3. I would recommend you add another 3 to make them a small group. This will reduce the aggression. But put your tank at the boundary of being overstocked. The black widow tetra (black skirt tetra)profile is up in the top left and will give you more info.
And don't be surprised if the shrimp are gone in a couple of days. I added some to my tank and he chased them any chance he got.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## variety

So that's what they're called. I never knew their true name as my LFS called them Striped Long-fin Tetras or something along those lines. From having these for at least a little over a week, I will say them being considered aggressive is a lie. I have two in my tank and they don't bother any of the other fish at all. Honestly the most agressive thing in my tank is the mollies and they tend to pick at the Black Widow's skirts. Therefore I believe you can add anything as long as it isn't a molly or something that picks at other fish with long fins. Giving you a lot of choices. They get along fine with my Neon Tetras and my Serpae Tetras.


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## TitanTDH

Sorry variety, just speaking from lessons learnt in my 10g. The aggression didn't start for about 3-4 months before I noticed it. The fish deaths as a result have happened in the last month. I just want to advise caution with these fish. As the saying goes the more the merrier. I have one and its bossy. Having 2-3 may reduce this. Having 6 or more would be much better. 

Cheers


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## Byron

Welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum, palnud and variety.:cheers:

Now for the not-so-good news: you are both likely heading for trouble with your Black Widow Tetra. BTW, this fish like many others has a lot of "common" names, but the scientific name is Gymnocorymbus ternetzi and using this will ensure you are talking about the same fish. And you will note that the names shaded, which means this fish is in the profile under these names, so you can click the shaded name for a link to the profile.

This fish, like all tetra, is a shoaling fish. That means, it lives in large groups of hundreds, and being in a group is an essential part of the fish's requirements. Most suggest six as the minimum number for a tetra species, but more is always better. However, tank space has to be considered, and as someone mentioned, a 10g is very limited space. This fish should be in a 2-foot tank (a 15g or 20g) minimum, and in a group of more than six.

Now, the reasons. Shoaling fish have a need for numbers as security; the more there are, the safer they will be. And that means less stress, and stress is the main cause of all fish disease. Second, there may be a hierarchy within the group, natural to the fish; interactions between males, a pecking order, etc is a part of the fish's needs. When denied this, fish can react in various ways, but the most common is aggression. The fish is simply frustrated at not being in an environment that nature programmed into it, and it lashes out the only way it can. Other times, the opposite may occur; the fish becomes withdrawn. In both cases, stress again results, leading to health problems. Some of these cannot be seen until it is too late; when fish die earlier than their normal lifespan, it is almost always due to some facet of stress caused by an inappropriate environment.

I can't advise what to do, but in both cases you should have more of this species, and in sufficient space, if you want the fish to be at its best. Among tetra, this species is known as a bit of a fin nipper when it is not properly maintained, so you can expect this to break at some point.

Byron.


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## TitanTDH

On a good note, my LFS has apologised to me and requested I return my BW. They Shall be putting him in a new biotope with 20 others on the weekend when the tank is finished. They offered a refund. I said free to a good home as the others are a little smaller so he might get kingpin status


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## palnud

Crud. Thanks a lot for all the advice. No wonder they were on sale. I may see if pet smart will take them back. So, starting from scratch, what's a good way to stock a 10 gal tank with lots of color / variety?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron

palnud said:


> Crud. Thanks a lot for all the advice. No wonder they were on sale. I may see if pet smart will take them back. So, starting from scratch, what's a good way to stock a 10 gal tank with lots of color / variety?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Next question, what are your water parameters, out of the tap? The GH (general hardness) and pH are important to fish; some are more adaptable than others, so it helps us to know the water before suggesting fish as some may be better and others not good at all.

You can ascertain this from your water supply people, they likely have a website.

Byron.


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## palnud

I am on a well and have hard water. I used the well water last time I tried to keep betta fish and was unsuccessful x3 ( less than 48 hrs on all 3) soooo I bought and used spring water for this set up and have a few plants in there. Is that ok?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## palnud

Obviously I did something very wrong. All 3 fish croaked last night. If I get septo bac, wil that help with the beneficial bacteria / nitrogen cycling process? How long should I wait till I put something in there? I'm going back and forth btw getting 1 fantail goldfish (and nothing else) OR 1 male betta and maybe 2 otos? I just don't want to kill anymore fish.


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## palnud

Obviously I did something very wrong. All 3 fish croaked last night. If I get septo bac, wil that help with the beneficial bacteria / nitrogen cycling process? How long should I wait till I put something in there? I'm going back and forth btw getting 1 fantail Goldfish (and nothing else) OR 1 male betta and maybe 2 otos? I just don't want to kill anymore fish. 

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...ions-black-skirt-tetras-126620/#ixzz2Ite5f4io


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## jakwob

sorry for your loss, what are your water parameters?


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## Byron

palnud said:


> Obviously I did something very wrong. All 3 fish croaked last night. If I get septo bac, wil that help with the beneficial bacteria / nitrogen cycling process? How long should I wait till I put something in there? I'm going back and forth btw getting 1 fantail goldfish (and nothing else) OR 1 male betta and maybe 2 otos? I just don't want to kill anymore fish.


First, do not rush out to buy any fish. This tank was not cycled and the fish died of ammonia poisoning. I can explain.

A new tank must cycle. This is what we call the establishment of certain bacteria to handle the ammonia and then the nitrite. You can read all about this here, please take the time to read this:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

Next, you need to plan what fish will work. You have a 10g which is quite small, too small for goldfish so please forget that.

Water parameters. Bottled water isn't always good for fish, unless it is completely pure water such as distilled or RO (reverse osmosis) but then you have to add minerals to it. We should look into your well water. Is there anything wrong with the well water? Do you drink it? How hard is it? Once we know this, we can look at fish, and consider live plants which will help with the cycling and continual water stability.

Byron.


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## TitanTDH

Hey mate. Pleas read byrons sticky. All sorts of good info. I always read them before posting. But ultimately do you have a test kit for ammonia nitrite and nitrate? If not may I recommend you get them. With my ten gallon I planted it and let it run for a couple of weeks until I saw plant growth. Try doing a fish less cycle using fish food. It may take a few weeks but this in my opinion lets everything settle. You should see ammonia spike, then nitrite spike and then both will return to zero. Nitrates will start increasing. That's the cycle. I didn't do water changes during the cycle. 
Once that was done I gave the substrate a good vacuum and filter a rinse in tank water. 10%. Water change and added my first school of neons. After a couple of weeks added the next and so on.
Just try to keep in mind that a small change in a small tank is massive. Yet in a 30g it won't be as detrimental.

Hope you get it sorted. Goodluck


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## palnud

Byron and Titan: Thankyou so much. I really did not understand that the tank needed so much time and I really rushed things. I canned the goldfish idea. But I didn't read these posts till after buying a betta. He's not in the tank though. Will he be okay waiting out the two weeks? And no I don't have test trips. The cheapest thing I found was $18 and the lady at the store said they weren't really nessesary. Looks like ill be making another trip to the store! And thx for the tip on not changing the water. When it got cloudy I started changing some out for clean water. Now I see that it's part of the bacteria building process. I didn't realize fish owning was so complicated! Really I am learning so much here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## palnud

I forgot to add... Will buying the bottle of bacteria adding stuff at the store help the process?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## palnud

Oh and the well water: we drink it but filter it with a brita pitcher cause it tastes like pennies. It also leaves a green rim around anything it sits in long enough. I haven't had any testing done on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cole mccallister

bettas arn`t sesitive to low oxygen content so yes he can wait it out since they are labyrinth fish witch means they breathe air from our atmosphere tahnds to that special organn called a labrinth or somthing like that it is called


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## Nilet699

Indeed it is th labyrinth enabling this.
Second...I'm sure it's limestone that cause this. I might be wrong. If so, I'd guess you were on the hard side of water, and so fish choices become a little more limited, but by no means are you short of options.
When you say leave the betta out......where EXACTLY will he be living? 
If I was you I'd return the betta....unless that's ALL you want. Bettas do not make good community fish as a general rule.


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## palnud

Betta is all I want. I've decided to be super simple about this whole fish keeping business since I seem to be challenged. 
He is in store container and water still but partially submerged in tank to keep him warm since that is heated. Yes limestone I believe is what is causing the green from the well water. I have spring water from store in tank.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron

The Betta will be better in the tank than in a cup of water. Some floating plants will help a lot. And the green is more likely copper, not limestone which would be white.

If you buy a test lkit, forget the strips which are not as accurate as a liquid test kit. API make good ones, most ofus use them; the MAster Combo is a good investment, it has pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests.


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## TitanTDH

Hey mate. Yeah it was a steep learning curve but trust me it gets easier when all the facts and info becomes routine. Can I suggest eBay for getting the test kit. You might be able to pick up a bargain. I know they are about $20 cheaper for me here in Australia. 

And as far as bettas go I have absolutely no experience. I'm a tetra fan. But the forum has plenty of experience. 

Goodluck


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## palnud

Byron said:


> The Betta will be better in the tank than in a cup of water. Some floating plants will help a lot. And the green is more likely copper, not limestone which would be white.
> 
> If you buy a test lkit, forget the strips which are not as accurate as a liquid test kit. API make good ones, most ofus use them; the MAster Combo is a good investment, it has pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests.


Ok here's where I am: test kit ordered and on the way. 10 gal tank up and running with heater and 4 plants and some jungle brand bacteria starter. I fitted a plastic cup over the filter to decrease the flow for the betta. I have the betta in a 1 gal bowl with a plant and a heater (stuff I had from a while ago). I have been changing the water in the 1 gal daily. He seems happy ( but I'm no expert) and has a gigantic bubble nest. Should I still put him in the 10 gal before its done cycling?
Also, would you recommend snail, shrimp, or otos to go in the 10 gal with the betta? Thanks!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TitanTDH

Hey mate, I wouldn't put him in the ten gallon until its cycled. Not sure how sensitive they are. The bubble nest is a good sign as its the precursor to needing a female and mating. I've seen snails do alright in a mates Betta tank so I would go for them. I'm assuming algae control is your concern here. The fish is carnivorous, but I don't see why shrimp wouldn't work so long as they have plenty of cover and well they might breed given the right conditions and provide a alternate food supply for you. Red cherry shrimp would be the best as they breed real quick given the right conditions and look cool. Just put some java moss in the tank for them.
Goodluck
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## Byron

Plants were mentioned, so I would add the Betta with live plants in the 10g. These will eliminate the "cycle" effects.


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