# 'Toxic' levels of ammonia, fish are fine?



## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

After cycling my 35 gallon tank, adding Eco Complete substrate, and some live plants I added fish. Everything looked to be good, I was using an old test kit (I don't even remember the brand, it came with the tank (used purchase), and had blocks for the water, and packets of powder) and the readings showed everything was good. Well my sister (doesn't live with me) recently bought a tank and I gave her the old test kit and got the API Master test kit. It shows my ammonia levels as off the charts, but my fish are fine and dandy and happy. I was very shocked and honestly panicked. I did a 50% water change and vacuumed my gravel (no high amounts of fish waste, and just a bit a plant debris floating around). I tested the water again and it still read as very high ammonia. I don't want to just say 'oh, the kit is wrong', but what is going on? 

I have 4 pearl gourami, 1 male, 3 females. 4 flame tetras (I know the number is low, I've been slowly adding them so as not to overload the system) and 3 kuhli loaches (again, I know I need a few more :/...) Any advice as to what I should do? I'm really worried but my fish are just dandy. I only feed what they can eat in a few seconds, 2 or 3 times a day.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Some other data is needed. What are the water parameters, specficially pH? Do you have live plants?

I don't have the API ammonia kit, so can you give us the number? And did nitrite and nitrate show up, and if so, what numbers?

Byron.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

My Ph is at 6, Nitrite at 0, and my Nitrate is somewhere between 5 and 10. I have it about moderately planted with anacharis in the back corners, a large piece of driftwood, a small piece of driftwood, water lettuce, and wisteria. Plus some duckweed that's floating around.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Oh and the Ammonia was showing up at the 5 marker...It was a pretty dark green. I'm still pretty panicked about it.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

In acidic water I believe some (but not all) Ammonia becomes Ammonium which is less toxic to the fish.

Some water conditioners, like Prime, all bind Ammonia into Ammonium. The test kits though can't tell the difference.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Yes, the "ammonia" you are seeing in the API test is obviously ammonium which is basically harmless to fish. In acidic water, ammonia converts into ammonium automatically. As long as the pH does not rise above 7 this will cause no trouble. However, that does not mean we should ignore it, as it shouldn't be there.

You have named some fast growing plants, which I would have expected to keep ammonia at zero and nitrates low (5-10 is fine). May be time to ask more questions. Which water conditioner? Any substances other than the conditioner being added to the tank? Before this became noticed, how often were water changes done and what volume of the tank?

I would cut back on the feeding. Once a day is more than sufficient (except for fry that need more). And missing a day or two each week won't hurt. I never feed on water change day (shouldn't feed before any disturbance inside the tank), and normally one other day is missed too. I'm really not suggesting this is the cause, but it may contribute and the additional food isn't necessary. Hungry fish are healthier.

Byron.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

I use Seachem's Prime to condition the water, and I do weekly 20% water changes, and stir up the gravel every other water change. I'm trying to get my plants to root and I'm scared of messing with the substrate too often. I will definitely cut back on feedings to once a day and skip on water change day. Is there anything I can do to fix the problem?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Well, cutting feeding's to once a day, (see that no one else is feeding also) possibly larger weekly water change for a few week's ,and addition of more plant's, will all help considerably.
I am with Byron,,I would not expect to see ammonia in cycled,moderately planted aquarium.


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## beaslbob (Oct 17, 2012)

jentralala said:


> Oh and the Ammonia was showing up at the 5 marker...It was a pretty dark green. I'm still pretty panicked about it.


 
As I understand it you have low ph, high ammonia and yet fish seem to be doing fine.

Dechlorinators and ammonia locks can result in those conditions.

The api ammonia test kit measures total ammonia not just the dangerous free ammonia.

Seachem (I think) has an ammonia multitest kit that measures both free and total.

What happens one adds the ammonia lock, locks up the ammonia, panics and adds more ammonia lock and still measures ammonia. All the while the ammonia lock is also locking up oxygen and can suffocate the fish. Which you luckily have not reached.

High carbon dioxide also results in low pH.

If you're worried about the ammonia I would get the multitest kit just for piece of mind. From what you say I'll bet a poped pop corn kernal the ammonia is all locked up and safe.


With the4 anacharis in the any free dangerous ammonia should be consumed rapidily.

So I would basically do nothing. Stop the water changes and just top off what evaporates. Cut down a little on feeding and see what happens. I think you will find the ammonia will drop down in less than a week, pH will rise, the fish will be more active, and the plants will grow faster.


But that's jut my.


.)2


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I do not advocate fewer water changes, or at any rate, fewer than once a week and changing 1/3 to 1/2 the tank volume. There is nothing so beneficial as a water change, and many suggest doing one at any sign of trouble. There is of course always the exception, I cover that in my article on water changes.

On to the pH. What is the tap water pH [remember to shake the water briskly before testing to outgas CO2]? There is absolutely nothing wrong with a pH of 6 in a tank with soft water fish. But we need to understand how it is getting there.

Byron.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> What happens one adds the ammonia lock, locks up the ammonia, panics and adds more ammonia lock and still measures ammonia. All the while the ammonia lock is also locking up oxygen and can suffocate the fish. Which you luckily have not reached.
> 
> From what you say I'll bet a poped pop corn kernal the ammonia is all locked up and safe.
> 
> So I would basically do nothing. Stop the water changes and just top off what evaporates.


Careful.

Conditioners like Prime will only lock Ammonia for up to 48 hours, it is by no means permanent. That's enough time for plants/bacteria in a cycled tank to process any ammonia in the tap water, but no where near enough time in an un-cycled tank.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

1/3-1/2 water changes per week and adding more fast growing stem/floating plants should help stabilize the ammonia situation. You still need to find out what is causing this problem. The feeding suggestions are good and overall tank maintenance in the form of vacuuming and checking the filter for too much solid waste could help also. When you discover a lot of solid waste, swish the media around in the old tank water during water changes.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

The ph of my tap water is actually really high. It's around 7.6, I actually never knew how much of a difference there is between my tap and tank water. I guess the driftwood is causing it to become to acidic? Should I be more careful during water changes and do a slow drip to acclimate them to such a different ph range? 

I added a few more plants today to help with the ammonia, is there anything else I can do?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jentralala said:


> The ph of my tap water is actually really high. It's around 7.6, I actually never knew how much of a difference there is between my tap and tank water. I guess the driftwood is causing it to become to acidic? Should I be more careful during water changes and do a slow drip to acclimate them to such a different ph range?
> 
> I added a few more plants today to help with the ammonia, is there anything else I can do?


Caution is needed with water changes or you could have dead fish very quickly. Tap water pH of 7.6 is not all that high in itself, but if the tank were suddenly to shift above 7 the ammonia that is now ammonium (harmless) would immediately be toxic. 

First, let's find out what's happening to lower the pH. Do you know the GH and KH of the tap water? You can get this from the water supply folks, they likely have a website. The pH is closely related. I will suspect the GH and KH is probably low, but we need the numbers to be sure as there are other factors involved.

Byron.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

I actually have a GH/KH test kit that my mother bought a few days ago. I just ran the tests and the KH of my tap water is 53.7ppm (3 drops), and the GH is 71.6 (4 drops). The test is worded kind of oddly, I hope I did it right.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Also, thank you for all your help. I'm constantly amazed by how much information and knowledge you have. I just can't thank you enough, I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The KH is fairly low, and that is a buffering for pH, so being low it means the natural biological actions in the tank will cause the pH to fall as the water acidifies. This is normal, not a problem as such, unless you have livebearers or other hard water fish. Your fish mentioned earlier are soft water, so this is fine.

However, I would get on a regime of weekly partial water changes of 1/3 the tank. But first, begin slowly; change 1/4 of the tank daily for the next few days. Test pH just prior to the water change to see what it does. It should slowly rise. Test the ammonia too. I am expecting it to disappear, but as I have warned earlier, if it remains and the pH rises above 7, danger. So go slow. Try to do the WC's at roughly the same time of day, and this should preferably be early rather than late; disrupting fish in the morning to give them time to settle before dark is preferable. Also, pH should be tested at the same time each day because the normal diurnal fluctuation willnot impact the readings.

If this goes as I would expect, the ammonia will disappear and the pH will slowly rise. Once the ammonia is gone, back to once a week water changes, 1/3 of the tank. Again, test pH just prior to the WC until it seems fairly stable week to week.

Byron.


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## jentralala (Oct 5, 2012)

Well ammonia seems to be slowly going down, ph is staying the same as far as I can tell. Maybe climbing a bit, but I'm not very worried about it being low, since all my fishies are soft water. Unfortunately I guess either stress or something caused my male pearl to die  I try to make the water changes as peaceful as possibly but all my gourami get very scared, although the other fish seem to almost come out and play in the new water.


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