# Starting 100gallon! what fish? other advice??



## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

I'm new to the aquarium scene. I've done alot of searching and looking but need help..
I want to stock my tank with dwarf gourami rainbow fish and anything else anyone would suggest. is this a good idea? I have all my equipment but a heater, what size should i be looking for? I'm thinking about getting plastic plants, but are they're any easy plants that don't need alot of attention? I have very strong lighting. Is there a good place to shop for fish and other items? please help. I'm a noob. I'm eager to learn though. I hope this is on the right forum...


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

I'm starting a new tank. I want to have Dwarf gouramis and rainbowfish. I hear dwarfs get dieases.. Will this idea work?? Anytoher cool fish i should add?? where can i find a heater big enough?? Are there any plants that don't need fertilizer and easy to take care of or should i just get plastic?? any advice, help, comments, rants.. would be nice. I'm a noob


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

there are many plants that will work without ferts. Look into plants like java moss, java fern, various anubias plants, and some stem plants.

Dwarf Gouramis can be susceptible to disease when stressed. If you are keeping multiple gouramis, make sure that they have ample territory space.

What types of rainbows are you looking to get?

Other kinds of fish can only be suggested after you tell us how many of each fish you plan to stock, if your tank population is at capacity, you cant add more types of fish. Heaters for 100g are common, but at 100 g you might want to consider 2 smaller heaters to make the tank heated evenly.

Also, look into the fish profiles on this site, you can also scroll over the highlighted fish names and see profiles for each of these fish. Many of the more common fish in the hobby are listed.


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## burnsbabe (Jul 15, 2010)

Sin has covered a lot of good stuff. The plants he's listed are good to start with. There are a few more that do great with just a liquid fert dose once a week. Nothing major. Definitely go planted. It's easier than you think.

With a tank that size, I'd grab two heaters, 200-250watt and place one at either end next to the filter intake and return. They work less that way and last your longer.

I have three Dwarf Gouramis and they all seem to be fine. Just make sure they look heathy and active before you buy. With a tank that size though, I'd look into the large number of other types of gourami (most of which are larger than the Dwarf). Check out Blues, Pearls, Golds etc.

Let us know more of what you're thinking and we can keep pointing you in the right direction.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

thanks for the advice on the heater and plants. what kind of substrate will i need for plants? Are the blues and other gouramis hardier? I'm thinking maybe a shool of six turquoise and another school of parkison? And four gourami? will i still have room for a few fish?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

gouramis do no school, they are like bettas, they will fight if there are too many. They also enjoy the mid-top region of the tanks. With 100 gallon you can keep bigger gouramis, they get very large, for blues or golds, you might be looking at 3 max

For substrate, any kind of gravel will work, however, substrates like flourite, eco-complete, and aqua-soil are specialized for plants and are high in clay so they slowly release minerals for ur plants saving u from having to dose ferts for the first few months. They will also help your plants establish themselves faster. If you are using normal gravel, the smaller the grain the better. Sand works well if you want it, but you need to turn it manually or get malaysian trumpet snails to turn it for you. Lastly, not for beginners, but soil will also work but requires research and is very messy/difficult to work with.

For 100g, you can fit a lot of fish. You can use the general rule of 1inch per gallon of water. However, some fish produce larger bio-loads such as plecos and goldfish (not compatible with gouramis), and some produce less like neon tetras.

With your setup, a few gouramis for the top will be ok, and for the mid/lower portions, you can think about schooling fish like rasboras, tetras, etc. Rainbows will do ok, some species will not school, others will, threadfinns (personally my favorite rainbow fish) will school shoals of 6 or more are very attractive although if you have too many males they will show a little aggression towards eachother. For your bottom, commonly kept fish are cory cats, theres a huge variety to choose from and they group up and swim very actively, if you have sand substrate, they will dig in it.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

yeah, I knew gouramis don't school. I just don't like how big they could get threadfins look pretty cool.. i might have to go with those. Is there a sand thats not too hard on the wallet you would recommend?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

playsand u find at home depot, gets sold in 40 lbs bags, but with 100g, u might need 2. Some plants really like a deep substrate like swords and deeper substrates will allow them to grow really well.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

how do i wash it so it doesn't make my tank extremely cloudy?


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## burnsbabe (Jul 15, 2010)

That's pretty much it. You wash it. A little bit at a time in a bucket in the yard with a hose. You'll be washing for a while with 80lbs of sand. I'd go with a small gravel mixed with Eco-complete.

I'd say you're looking at three of the larger gourami in that size. Blues, Pearls, or Golds would work great.


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## sik80 (Mar 16, 2010)

The pH and hardness of your tapwater is important because it could determine which fish you can keep - try to find this out then refer back to the fish profiles here to see if the fish you like are compatible with your water


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

burnsbabe said:


> Blues, Pearls, or Golds would work great.


I would hesitate to put pearls into that mix as Pearl Gouramis are very passive gouramis. It will prefer to hide rather than stake its own territory.

Rinse the sand in a bucket like burnsbabe said, swish it around and pour out the cloudy water. However, this is something you need to do with all substrates, even the pre-rinsed ones u often need to rinse again.

For sand, you need to remember to turn the substratel or there will be anerobic pockets forming which is bad for your fish.

Another solution is mixing gravel, if you like the look of sand but want the benefits of eco-complete, you can layer them, ecocomplete on the bottom, sand on the top.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

I'm thinking about doing a thin layer of pea gravel and a thick layer of sand on top. how does that sound. My tap water has a value of 40ppm. Is that okay? I believe my ph is between 6.9 and 7


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

40 ppm of what?

Theres really no point in keeping pea gravel under sand as the sand will just fillin the cracks and the gravel will make it easier for anaerobic pockets to form.

That PH is fine, you want to look into harness of your water also


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

isn't 440ppm the water hardness? will cory catfish be enough to stir the tank? i thought the gravel would help hold the plant roots.. but you're probably right.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

ppm is measurment, it could be for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, GH, KH, etc. although 440 ammonia, nitrities would be instant death for fish...

corys wil not stir the tank enough, they will only play on the surface, you will need snails or worms that dig into the substrate and turn it regularly.

Sand > gravel at holding plant roots.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

440ppm can be a measurement of the hardness of water. its slightly hard i guess.. thats what ive read. I have a DIY wet dry filter setup with a 600gph pump. that should be sufficient right since it has bio and mechanical filtration and cycles the water 6 times a hour. what snails would work well?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

I personally love my MTS, as long as u dont overfeed, the only show up at night, will not harm your plants and, in general, you can ignore them.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

how many do i need?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

well they are live bearing snails, so get a few for genetic diversity, then they will find the equilibrium on their own as they can just make babies by themselves or with others.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

ok. great. i just moved the tank in and i'm cleaning the sand today. I hope to begin a cycle by this weekend


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

If you keep tons of plants you will not need to cycle.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

how many is a ton?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

The amount of plants is very hard to actually measure to avoid a cycle, the general rule is by amount of fish you plan to keep initially. ie, x amount fish = y amount of plants since plants will help eliminate ammonia in the water. What is your planned stock for the tank?


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

after i washed all the sand for a couple of hours, i placed it in the tank and i added water amd its cloudy. will it dissapear after a day? I can't decided on what fish to stock.. I really like gourami and bolivian rams. I want a couple of nice schooling fish. definately some corys. and if the sand works out i'll need to get some of those MLS.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

The cloudyness from the sand will settle after a couple of days, you should see improvement within 24 hrs though.

not MLS, its MTS = Malaysian Trumpet Snails, most pet stores will give em to you for free as they find them to be more annoying than beneficial. Gouramis are great fish for the top but they come in a large variety of sizes and temperaments. Almost all are territorial but some, like the pearl, will be more agreeable and less aggressive for its own kind.

I have 2 Bolivian rams myself, they are wonderful fish to keep. Mine are very aggressive towards eachother and have very defined territories.

For schooling fish, rasboras are very good at schooling. Many of the smaller tetras are also very good for creating a school.

Corys are amazing. I used to keep some dwarf ones. They will school in groups of 6 or more and will swim together. They also love sand, it will be perfect for them.


The Tropical Fish Profiles on this forum are very good and well researched resources. Most of the fish that can be commonly purchased in stores are listed with care requirements, space, etc.

I would recommend getting a test kit to make sure your water parameters are suitable for the types of fish you want.

I also recommend that you introduce your stock in little batches of no more than 4-6 at one time. It will limit the strain on your bio-load and will let you monitor fish behavior and compatibility before adding more.

As for plant amount, think of what kinds of plants you want and just plant them in places you like. if you notice that you are getting a lot of ammonia, you can add more plants and do a small 10-15% water change. Try introducing the hardier fish first as to minimize fish loss.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

is it worth trying dwarf gourami? there's alot of talk of them having disease


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

If you carefully examine them before you buy, you should be ok. If you are worried, you may want to introduce only a few at a time and monitor them closely. If possible, its always best to quarantine fish for a short period of 1-2 weeks to see if they are ill with disease, parasite, etc. If not, just be careful with your selection. Dwarf gouramis are very nice, an alternative, one of my favorite gouramis, is the pearl gourami, they get larger than the dwarf, ~5 inches, but are less territorial, a lot more shy, and just as beautiful.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

Do you buy your fish online?


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

No, i buy my fish in stores. I like to be able to see what im buying. moreover, shipping for live animals is killer, ~$35 is what usually see for live fish shipping so, im sticking with whats available in stores.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

yeah. I want so petco today and checkout there fish. they have alot of gouramis. I was going to buy a kit to test my water but i saw they have free water testing there so i think ill just bring a sample to them.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

if they test your water witha strip, be careful because strips can be inaccurate at times. The liquid tests are the most accurate. If you choose to get gouramis be aware that they will be aggressive towards eachother. You will need lots of plant cover to reduce aggression.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

alright, ill check everything out


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

i think i'm gonna stock my tank with the following..
6x dwarf cory cats
2x angelfish
4xpearl gourami
2x bolivian ram
10x zebra danio
6x golden barb

i might go with two gourami and get a few more schooling fish..


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

i think i'm gonna stock my tank with the following..
6x dwarf cory cats
2x angelfish
4xpearl gourami
2x bolivian ram
10x zebra danio
6x golden barb

i might go with two gourami and get a few more schooling fish..

i used aqAdvisor to figure it out


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

That sounds like a good stock. However, Angelfish should only be kept in pairs if they are a mated pair. Otherwise they should be kept in groups of 4 or even 5. I do not have a lot of experience in them, but i know people who have had them and they all say 4-5 to reduce stress and aggression. Danios are extremely hardy fish, i would introduce them first to jump start maturing the tank, followed by the barbs. The pearls are very shy, they may be initially intimidated by the barbs and danios since those are both very active fish. If you give them a couple of days to get situated. However, if they take too long to start eating, you may want to consider feeding treats like bloodworms or brine shrimp to get them to eat.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

is there a difference between cherry and golden barbs besides there color?


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

The Cherry Barbs get to around 4cm and the Golden Barbs get to around 7cm


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

really? aqadivsor said the cherry would bother the gourami when spawning or something. why do the golds work out then


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## burnsbabe (Jul 15, 2010)

I'd avoid putting Zebra Danios in with sedate fish like the Angels and Pearl Gouramis. They're VERY active. It's just a bad mix. You're going to stress the other fish out. I'll also double up on the advice to go with a group of five angels. I'd probably go with something like this.

6x Dwarf Corys
5x Angels
2x Pearl Gourami
2x Bolivian Rams (might could go to four in this with a 100g tank that's well planted)
20x Golden Barbs

You could do two smaller schools rather than the massive school of Golden Barbs. I just don't know what else you'd be interested. Keep researching and asking questions.


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

Gold barbs are just as active as the danios in my experience. They do get more docile when their numbers increase but they still move around a lot.

At 20 golden barbs, your stocking pretty heavy for the middle region. esp since the rams are territorial and are mid-lower region fish, the large amount of barbs may illicit aggression. The angels are also mid fish. Thats a lot of fish for one region.

Jwest, what are the dimensions of your tank? If its a tall tank, then you can stock ur middle with more fish, but if its standard, i would increase the # of dwarf corys, as they do better with larger numbers and reduce middle region fish like the barbs and danios. However, barbs will get more aggressive the less of them there are, so make sure you keep at least 6 barbs if u get them. 

Do you plan to spawn you gouramis? If not, then i dont think u need to worry about them getting disturbed. Also i find it quite difficult to find male pearls since they sell quickly due to their bright red breasts, people tend to pick them first. My lfs always ends up with only females only within a day or so of restocking.

Female pearl gouramis are not as territorial, i kept 2 together and even though there was adaquate space for them to pick their own territories, they swam together a lot. Im sure you can get 3 or 4 more pearls at the top and cut back on middle region fish.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

the dimensions are about 4ft long, 18 deep, and 3 ft high. i don't really like the barbs that much to be honest.. i just want a couple different schooling fish. I was gonna do some neons but apparently they'll mess with angels. I would like to eventually do some breeding with a few of my fish..


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## thefishboy (Aug 20, 2010)

What about Cardinal Tetras there are bigger and just as nice??


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

that's a good suggestion. i guess they would interrupt spawning too though. i guess if i want my fish to breed i'll just put them in a separate tank. galaxy rasbora are really nice fish too.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Just came across this thread. You have some issues with your intended fish stocking, some of which have already been mentioned by others.

First, angels and gourami are not a good match in any aquarium. The dominance/aggression/territoriality of both fish may likely cause trouble. Either angels or gourami, but not both.

Cardinal Tetra are like Neon Tetra when it comes to angels--don't. If the angels are mature the small tetra will be viewed as food. And before anyone jumps in to say that they have them together--yes, almost anything is always possible; but the risk is there due to the inherent nature of these fish. You should aim for peace and harmony to ensure less stressed fish and thus healthier fish. Avoid putting temptation in their way.

No barbs are good companions for angels. Angelfish are slow, sedate fish that do not appreciate the faster activeness of the barbs.

Check out the profiles of the angelfish and the other fish on here--second tab from the left in the blue bar at the top,or click on fish names when they are shaded in posts to see that fish's profile. Angels are under Pterophyllum scalare.

Byron.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

i guess i will need to remove angles from my list.. galaxy rasbora are way too expensive, I saw some red nigerian kribensis that look interesting at the store.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

what about
2 blue gourami
2 bolivan rams
2 red kribs
10 leopard danios


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

You are not going to like me for picking apart all your suggested lists.:shake: But my comments are intended to help you have a successful tank, nothing more.

Angelfish are cichlids, and all cichlids have certain traits in the realm of territory, aggression and dominance. Gourami therefore do not fit in with any cichlid. Either or, but not both.

You have the space for both cichlids (ram and krib), they should stay out of each other's way in a 100 gallon tank. When spawning occurs, as it will if you have male/female, the kribs can be nasty.

I have Bolivian Rams in my 115g, a pair, and they spawn regularly; they are very adept at keeping other fish away during daylight. Make sure the tank is well broken up with wood and plants; if they can't see far, they tend to limit their aggression to close at hand.

If you do stay with cichlids as the "main" fish, danios are fine, as would be any of the small/medium sized barbs. Quite the opposite from gourami which generally do not appreciate such active fish around them.

Byron.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

haha. aw man. i really appreciate the advice. i just don't know what to stock it with now.. I found out my ph is 8 so i need to lower it a bit and the water is very soft at 2.5 grains.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Jwest said:


> haha. aw man. i really appreciate the advice. i just don't know what to stock it with now.. I found out my ph is 8 so i need to lower it a bit and the water is very soft at 2.5 grains.


If 2.5 grains is grains per gallon, that equates to 43 ppm, which is 2 or 3 dGH, very soft as you say. Assuming the KH is similar, the pH should lower naturally as the aquarium becomes established bioloogically, provided there are no calcareous items (rock or gravel composed of calcium-based material like limestone, marble, dolomite...). Using wood (real) and well planted will assist in this lowering. If the fish load is kept moderate in balance with the plants, smaller water changes will be OK, further maintaining a lower pH.

Diluting the initial water with distilled, Reverse Osmosis or rainwater is another option to get this started sooner.
A pH in the low 7's would accomodate many soft water fish, and it might well lower further over time.

Byron.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

ok, so i should cycle it with plants and see where i'm at?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Jwest said:


> ok, so i should cycle it with plants and see where i'm at?


If you can, plant it well as soon as you're ready (no leaks, filter and heater working overnight, etc.).

A few fish can be added once it is well planted. But before doing that, decide what sort of community you want. No point in buying fish that will not fit in down the road. The fish should have very similar requirements in terms of water parameters in particular, and then obviously be compatible in their behaviours.

Initially, the pH is likely going to be high like your tap water. Only in time with fish and bacteria in the tank will this lower a bit, and with the plants and some wood. Depending upon your choice of fish, you may want to adjust the pH initially as I mentioned before.

Byron.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

It's so hard to pick fish =(.. I'm leaning towards gourami so i can get a school of cories and not worry about kribs or rams bothering them


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## als1996 (Nov 22, 2010)

Don't call yourself a noob, everyone has to get over a learning curve in this hobby. 

Anyways, may I suggest to go for a biotope. Since the gouramis and rainbowfish are from Asia you can get maybe danios or other fish in the water parameters. As well you could just make a huge community tank or head over to a Amazon/South America biotope. You could be able to stock tons of tetras and corydoras. As well having a couple discus swimming around as your prize fish. But, do whatever you like, its your choice. Now, for plants, easy ones are java fern, java moss, anubias, water wisteria, and amazon swords. My only suggestion is to have a co2 kit for the plants. You can read up on all the fish and plants in the Tropical Fish Profiles. Good luck with your tank.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

This is nearly identical to your other post 
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...rting-100gallon-what-fish-other-advice-55557/

and several of us have responded there. I can merge this thread into that one if you agree, Jwest. Having two basically identical threads will mean some may not contribute to one or the other which makes it harder for subsequent members to follow everything, and some may spend time responding twice.

Byron.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

go ahead and merge it. i accidently first put this in the wrong section and it got moved over.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

i'm having troubles with my diy wet dry, i was looking into getting either two Marineland Penguin 200 BIO-Wheel Power Filters, or either a Penn Plax Cascade Canister Filter. any opinions?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

As this is aiming to be a 100g planted aquarium, with forest fish, I would without question select a canister filter. I don't know the make you mention, having never used it, so can't say good or bad. 

I have Eheims on two tanks (70g and 90g) and a Rena XP3 on my 115g. The Eheims have a solid reputation for reliability and durability; mine have been running non-stop for more than 12 years with never an issue. The Rena XP3 is rated for your size tank, and I've had it a year now and like it. It is designed like the Eheims, which isn't surprising; if it works so well, why change it? Eheims are expensive, Rena les so; and Fluval less again and while many like Fluvals I have read stats elsewhere that Rena and Eheim are long-term better money.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

yikes. thats alot of money. i still need to buy heater too. i'm reading some pretty good reviews on the penn plax cascade canister filter and it's only a hundred. why would you recommend a canister for plants?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Jwest said:


> yikes. thats alot of money. i still need to buy heater too. i'm reading some pretty good reviews on the penn plax cascade canister filter and it's only a hundred. why would you recommend a canister for plants?


In a planted tank you don't want excessive water movement. Sufficient to maintain clear water and remove debris from plant leaves (which if allowed to accumulate slows down and even stops the exchange of substances through the leaves) but not so much as to prevent the exchange. Some plants assimilate nutrients via the leaves, and if the nutrients in the water are flowing past faster than the plant can assimilate them they are of little value. Plants assimilate carbon via CO2 quite slowly, slower than terrestrial plants, and as CO2 is frequently the nutrient that can become exhausted faster than others and it is a macro-nutrient, it is important not to set up filtration such that it will deplete the CO2 even faster. There is also the issue of oxygen; too much oxygen is detrimental to plant growth because oxygen binds with many nutrients such as iron and they become too large to be absorbed by the plants. Vital nutrients are thus not available to the plants, so nutrient deficiency results--all caused by too much oxygen through excessive water movement. This is why surface disturbance should be minimal, and this is often closely connected with the filtration method.

I mention all this in the articles "A Basic Approach to the Natural Planted Aquarium" at the head of the Aquarium Plants section along with various other aspects of planted tanks.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

tank is cycling with zebra danios and some anubis


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## burnsbabe (Jul 15, 2010)

So if you're cycling already, did you make up your mind on the filter? I was going to give my bump to the Penn Plax canisters. I'm running a 1000 on my 55g tank. It's super quiet, easy to clean, and seems to get the job done all around.

If you're just using a stop gap before you make up your mind, that'd be my pick, though with a 100g I'd go up to the 1200 or 1500.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

i went with the cascade 1000. i'll probably get a power filter to help it out. I noticed you had powder blue dawrf gourami. are you afraid of any disease?


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## burnsbabe (Jul 15, 2010)

Not particularly. I know these guys are the result of some heavy breeding and are likely more inbred than is best. However, I got them at an LFS that I know and trust and they looked to be in good shape when I purchased them. I've had them going on 6 months now and they seem happy and growing. I've had no health issues.

I think a lot of it is about what sort of stock you get to begin with. If they're well taken care of from start to finish you're less likely to have issues.


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

I have two 40 watt bulbs for my 100 gallon. thats less than 1 watt per gallon. will anubis and wisteria survive in this?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Jwest said:


> I have two 40 watt bulbs for my 100 gallon. thats less than 1 watt per gallon. will anubis and wisteria survive in this?


Yes. The Anubias prefers shade, it does well with other plants (like the Wisteria) above it. Wisteria needs light, but it will grow--it does for me with similar light. Regular trimming once every week or two weeks (depends on conditions) will keep it nice, otherwise it grows across the surface and lower leaves fall off.


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