# 29 gallon tank still not cycling after 5 days



## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Hey, I got a 29 gallon tank for Christmas and set it up the same day. I had heard about fishless cycling before, but I have never used it. I put fish food in to put in ammonia and turned up the heat to about 82 degrees F. I didn't leave the light on, but I turned it on today. Today I got back from a 4 day trip to my grandparents' house. I checked the nitrite and nitrate. Both were at 0. Then I checked the ammonia. It was also 0. There is decaying fish food at the bottom of my tank. When I put in some decorations I got for Christmas at my grandparents' house, all the decaying, fungus covered food got stirred up. So I scooped most of it out with my net and put in some new food. Should I just go to the store and buy some pure ammonia to put in my tank? I thought the bacteria in the tank would have converted some of the ammonia to nitrite by today, but there's not even any ammonia in my tank! What happened? I added some Stress-zyme (beneficial bacteria in a bottle) to my tank today, I hope that helps. My tank is cloudy, so shouldn't there be some ammonia or nitrite or nitrate?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Did you have the filter running on the tank while you were away? this is where the bacteria will begin to develop. With fish food method. you should add a small pinch of fish food each day or every other day just as though you were feeding a small group of fish. Perhaps a little less than a dime size amount of food. The fuzz you saw on the food was the food breaking down and bacteria beginning to to feed on it. The process of maturing or (cycling) takes time and raw ammonia method is no quicker or at least that's been my expierience. Will take however long it takes. Be sure not to replace or clean the filter material during the next three to four weeks. If filter material becomes clogged up, you are putting too much food in the tank. When and if filter material needs cleaned in ALL aquariums (cycled)or not,, it should be cleaned in old aquarium water you take out or dechlorinated water.
Do you have any friends with aquariums up and running? borrowing some of their filter material and putting it in your filter ,will speed the process along. be sure and keep the borrowed filter material wet in aquarium water during the transfer from friends tank to yours. If you don't have accesss to borrowed material... Then be patient and the process will proceed. I am not a fan of bacteria in a bottle products and don't use them so cannot comment on benefits of using them other than to say they may, or may not, provide any benefit.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I have another tank and used some of the substrate from that tank to seed my new tank. I thought the more ammonia, the more bacteria, so the more bio-load (fish) could be handled, so I put in more fish food. My filter has not been changed but is starting to get a little clogged. Should I get some of the filter material from my other tank and put it in the filter? The tanks are different sizes and so are the filters, so I could just put the filter material in alongside the other things. I use Aqueon things, so I have an Aqueon Power Filter 30 on my tank.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Just stop your filter on the other tank for a min, take the sponges out, squish them out real nice in the new tank to get all the 'muck' into the new tank and place the sponges back in your old tank.
That's the safest and best way to get bacteria into your new tank real quick. After that you will more likely then not not see any NO's peaks.

Give it a few days and start stocking the new tank slowly (keep eye on water parameters thou to be safe!)


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Freddy said:


> I have another tank and used some of the substrate from that tank to seed my new tank. I thought the more ammonia, the more bacteria, so the more bio-load (fish) could be handled, so I put in more fish food. My filter has not been changed but is starting to get a little clogged. Should I get some of the filter material from my other tank and put it in the filter? The tanks are different sizes and so are the filters, so I could just put the filter material in alongside the other things. I use Aqueon things, so I have an Aqueon Power Filter 30 on my tank.


Yes ,is what I would do. Squeezing the filter material from other tank into new tank is not nearly as erffective as placing a portion of the borrowed filter material in the new tank. Do it quickly so the borrowed material does not dry out. I would take the filter material from the established tank and place it in the new tank's filter compartment and then replace what I borrowed from the other tank with new material so long as that tank has been running for longer than a few weeks,there should be no problems.
I would test daily for ammonia and nitrites. when they both read zero for five or six days straight,THEN it will be safe to add a few fish slowly to the new tank.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Ok, I'm scared...
I went to the store and bought some pure ammonia today, and tried to get a good amount of it in the tank - about 10 teaspoons. The source online that I had said you couldn't be sure how much to put in because you didn't know the concentration of the ammonia. So I googled it again, and two sites I found said add 3-5 drops!!! I put in 10 teaspoons! The original site said to test the water after adding it until the reading was 5.0 ppm, but my reading is still 0. I think the testing kit I bought isn't working right. Now I only have one test left, and I'm probably going to get a live action tester to put in the tank. Should I do a water change to get some of the ammonia out, or wait for a while to let the bacteria grow on it?



> Just stop your filter on the other tank for a min, take the sponges out, squish them out real nice in the new tank to get all the 'muck' into the new tank and place the sponges back in your old tank.
> That's the safest and best way to get bacteria into your new tank real quick. After that you will more likely then not not see any NO's peaks.


Dang... I looked in my other filter before reading this and found it infested with either algae or muck. I threw the cartridge away and rinsed off the other things in the filter with muck on them! :-(

And I'm thinking about trying to have a planted tank... Anything a pleco won't eat? Or do they only graze bulbs? I got some bulbs and tried to grow them but my pleco kept grazing down all the little sprouts. I would like plants that grow in gravel and plants that grow on driftwood.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

I pers never went with this approach but 10 spoons on 29g just really sounds like a lot.

What are you testing with, strips or liquid kit?
Any chance you can take a sample water by your LFS and have them test Ammonia for ya?

Pleco will eat anything such as algae, cucumber, algae waffers...or like in your case bulbs


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

Freddy said:


> Ok, I'm scared...
> I went to the store and bought some pure ammonia today, and tried to get a good amount of it in the tank - about 10 teaspoons. The source online that I had said you couldn't be sure how much to put in because you didn't know the concentration of the ammonia. So I googled it again, and two sites I found said add 3-5 drops!!! I put in 10 teaspoons! The original site said to test the water after adding it until the reading was 5.0 ppm, but my reading is still 0. I think the testing kit I bought isn't working right. Now I only have one test left, and I'm probably going to get a live action tester to put in the tank. Should I do a water change to get some of the ammonia out, or wait for a while to let the bacteria grow on it?
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, if you decide to go planted, good idea. Then you can sort of start over? (someone help me out here...would a new substrate be needed to support plant growth or does regular gravel do the trick?). I would research before getting the pleco...I have a bristlenose pleco in my 29 gallon and he is SO gentle with my plants, even when he pushes his way through them and has his whole mouth wrapped around them, he never harms them. I love him for that! But I say do your research so that you don't end up with a variety of pleco that will outgrow your 29 gallon tank. My bristlenose is by far my favorite thing in the tank, as everyone who has ever heard me talk about him would know.

As far as cleaning things off, it's often a good idea (especially at first) to leave things as is so you don't destroy what little bacteria may have formed on your decor, etc. Also, I always use treated water on whatever I'm washing off (I rarely need to wash anything off anyway) because I don't want trace amounts of chlorine or chloramine to get in the tank. For now, you may just not need to do any "cleaning". Let the bacteria do it for you.

As far as getting the ammonia levels up...that amount of ammonia seems really excessive. I am also doing a fishless cycle on a 10 gallon right now and i'm on about day 4. I know my tap has about .5 ppm of ammonia, but I added a good size pinch of food every morning and it already raised it to 1ppm. I also, like you, raised my temp. I used a lot of food to "jump start" the decaying process. And I'm leaving all of the decaying food at the bottom because that's the whole point...you want it to decay so it turns into ammonia, and you want to do this before adding fish so that your ammonia levels can peak withpout worrying about ammonia poisoning your fish. Then, once the ammonia and nitrites go down, I'll do a good gravel vaccuum and water change and if my levels are still at zero (amm and nitrite) then I'll add fish. If you decide to add fish before the cycle is complete, just remember to test your water every day, do water changes when ammonia is traceable, and I'd suggest using a live bacteria like Safe Start or Stability.

Sorry for all that! I know it can be frustrating waiting for the cycling. But if you decide to get plants, at least you'll have something beautiful to take care of while you wait for the other living inhabitants of your tank!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

All substrate-rooted plants will grow fine in regular gravel, preferably the smallest grain size (1-2 mm) and this plain regular gravel is what I have used for more than 20 years. Make sure it is inert, not the special gravels made from calcareous rock that will add mineral to the water and raise hardness and pH; these gravels are for marine tanks and rift lake cichlids and possibly livebearers.

Anubias, Java Fern, Java Moss are plants that will attach to driftwood; they do not root in the substrate but once attached the roots from the rhizome (Anubias, JF) will grow on the wood or rock they are attached to. And no fish that I know of will eat these plants, they are too tough. Good substrate-rooted plants would be any of the swords (Echinodorus species) that are also quite strong.

If you are going with live plants, I would buy them and plant the tank and forget the ammonia and fishless cycling stuff. Plants growing in a tank will handle the ammonia produced by a few fish right from day one and there will be no "cycle" or new tank syndrome. I can explain further if you're interested. I have set up dozens of planted tanks over the years and added fish the first day and never had any of them "cycle."

Byron.


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

Byron said:


> If you are going with live plants, I would buy them and plant the tank and forget the ammonia and fishless cycling stuff. Plants growing in a tank will handle the ammonia produced by a few fish right from day one and there will be no "cycle" or new tank syndrome. I can explain further if you're interested. I have set up dozens of planted tanks over the years and added fish the first day and never had any of them "cycle."
> 
> Byron.


Byron I know you mentioned this in another thread about planted tanks and their ability to handle the ammonia from day one. I have a question about this...I just set up a new 10 gallon which I've been cycling with fish food, and seeding from my other tank, for about four or five days now. I set it up and planted 1 anubias, 4 kyoto grass (very small), a few small valisneria from my old tank, and three or four small swords. I wouldn't consider it "heavily planted" yet How many plants do you think I would need to support the ammonia/nitrite load during the cycling. My ammonia has gone from .5ppm (tap water level) to 1ppm since yesterday. My plants in my 29 gallon definitely do the job of keeping the nitrate down, never has gone above 5ish.

Thanks


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

stephanieleah said:


> Byron I know you mentioned this in another thread about planted tanks and their ability to handle the ammonia from day one. I have a question about this...I just set up a new 10 gallon which I've been cycling with fish food, and seeding from my other tank, for about four or five days now. I set it up and planted 1 anubias, 4 kyoto grass (very small), a few small valisneria from my old tank, and three or four small swords. I wouldn't consider it "heavily planted" yet How many plants do you think I would need to support the ammonia/nitrite load during the cycling. My ammonia has gone from .5ppm (tap water level) to 1ppm since yesterday. My plants in my 29 gallon definitely do the job of keeping the nitrate down, never has gone above 5ish.
> 
> Thanks


Stephanie, the Vallisneria are fairly quick growers, and fast growing plants use the ammonia/ammonium faster, so that helps. Anubias is the opposite, and in my experience works slower in new tanks. The grass I'm not familiar with. In a 10g you are probably fine, but I would only add a couple of smallish fish to start and monitor ammonia. If it goes as it should, ammonia will be zero [or no higher than the tap water level] from day one, and there is no need to test for nitrite because it won't be there at measurable levels if the ammonia is being used. There will be some nitrifying bacteria established, but fewer in number than would occur or be needed without live plants.

As you have ammonia in there from the food, the plants should be happy and establish quickly. A good water conditioner that neutralizes ammonia will work fine at pwc, as most of these detoxify ammonia by converting it to ammonium, which is exactly what the plants want so it saves the plants having to convert it across the cells.

Byron.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

@ Steph, the kyoto grass you're referring to thrives best in harder water (not soft like I have here). I had it in one of my previous 20g set up and its a VERY slow growing plant, def slower then any Anubias I ever had.

I had best success in adding fast growers to new set ups, anything you like really, just in your case (like my new set up) its helpful to chose something that's gonna stay relatively small, being a 10g. Dep on what exactly you wanna stock in there, Pennywort also make a great floater plant and its fast growing.


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

I love Pennywort, I'll look for some of that. I've never had it before. I just added some Java Fern hoping the bigger leaves will absorb more nutrients. 

The kyoto grass was from the Petsmart brand live plants. They sell them in these gel packs and out of the four I purchased, two were actually not good aquatic plants (I, as usual, researched AFTER I already bought them) so I returned them and got an amazon sword. We'll see if the Petsmart plants survive. But I think I'm done buying from them for now. I'll try online since my LFS is dry in the plant arena lately.

And about the vallisneria, I'll add more so the ammonia goes bye-bye more rapidly.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Heck at the rate mine is going (again I should have known better) give it few more weeks and i'll mail some your way to get rid of it lol.
I never tried plants from them, look at the once and left lol, I been using sweetaquatics to stock all new tanks with plants now.


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

the more i read and learn about this stuff, the more i think you or byron should teach a class about aquarium plants. wouldn't it be cool if they set up webinars that our members could "teach"?


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I already have the pleco... I've had it for about half a year. That was my first impulse buy. And I have regretted it. I could have a nice planted tank, but that pleco eats everything. He hides during the day and comes out at night, but will dart back to his little hiding spot in the back if anyone comes up to the aquarium. The only good thing about him is that I never have to clean the aquarium walls for algae!:-D It's a common pleco, so it will get pretty big. I've tried to sell it, but there's a really low quality pet store in my town where they trade them for other fish. It's a bad place, but they have a lot of exotic species that you can only find there, unless you want to buy them online. Anyway, all my potential buyers say they can just trade in one of their unwanted fish for one. I'm close to just giving mine away and getting an albino bristlenose pleco, which will not get as big.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Even with a pleco, there's plenty of plants you can have that the pleco will not harm


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

i would just give him away...at this point it's about his quality of life and making sure he's in a tank that will accommodate his size. I don't know if this applies to pleco's but too small of tank size can actually impact some fishes' internal structures.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

That sounds like a good idea... I'll give it a try.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Back to the main topic this thread was started on... I'm getting nitrate readings, but never any nitrite. I don't know what's happening to the ammonia. Wouldn't 10 teaspoons of ammonia, when converted into nitrate, be a huge amount? I'm just getting traces. I don't think my aquarium is cycling right... What's happening?


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

was there an ammonia reading? just curious...10 tsp does sound like a lot : )


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

No, there was no reading. I think the kit I got was messed up. I was going to go to Petsmart today to get a live action meter, but it was new year's day, so they closed early.


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## nouvelle1972 (Jan 2, 2010)

I just set up a 29 gallon and within 2 days all my levels were perfect. No fish in yet. I just rinsed rocks, decorations and live plants off in filtered water, added the water and conditioner, which is usually 1/2 tsp/gallon (leaving enough room to transfer water and fish) and kept filter running (I also turned the light off and on for plants). Easy as that. I know this works because I have a little 2.5 gallon with a betta (same set up) and a 5 gallon with a dwarf pleco and 6 danios. They all swim around happy as clams in the sand.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Day 8, and still no nitrites or nitrates.:-? Today I WILL get an ammonia monitor to see if there's even any ammonia. But if the reading is no ammonia, what should I do? Is it safe to add fish? My alkalinity, hardness, and ph have finally balanced out, but I don't want to kill a fish because there's ~10 teaspoons of pure ammonia in the tank! During the past couple of days, I've put in 1 teaspoon of ammonia every day. I just put some in, so something must be wrong if the ammonia monitor reads 0.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Too late to edit, but I just read my other message and it looks like I already have the monitor and it reads 0. Just to be clear, I don't have the monitor yet. I'll keep you posted on how it goes when I put in the monitor!


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

nouvelle1972 said:


> I just set up a 29 gallon and within 2 days all my levels were perfect. No fish in yet. I just rinsed rocks, decorations and live plants off in filtered water, added the water and conditioner, which is usually 1/2 tsp/gallon (leaving enough room to transfer water and fish) and kept filter running (I also turned the light off and on for plants). Easy as that. I know this works because I have a little 2.5 gallon with a betta (same set up) and a 5 gallon with a dwarf pleco and 6 danios. They all swim around happy as clams in the sand.


Do you have a nitrate reading? How did you cycle it? Seeding or food or pure amm?

Freddy--IMHO I would wait to add fish till you get a nitrate reading. My 10 gallon got a nitrite reading today after I guess about 5 days of cycling with fish food. I know you upped your temp (82, like me, right?) and used fish food. I dumped about 10 fish flakes the first morning and night, and about 10-20 every morning since then. I know it's a lot, but I want to make sure I have more bacteria than I'll need for the fish so when I introduce them they will be supported. So again IMHO if I were doing a 20 gallon I'd add like three times (fellow members might be cringing at this). I also don't mind some deteriorating food in there to fertilize my plants, since there's no fish in there.

From experience, when you add fish before you cycle, it's stressful because say you get a .5 ammonia reading with fish in there, I always worry about the fish.

And yes, please get a new test kit. Use the drops, not the test strips. Dropper test kits tend to be more accurate (API sells good ones and they last a long time so the price is spread out over time).

Good luck, fellow cycler : )


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

And the reading is... :shock::shock::shock: MORE THAN 8.0 ppm! OFF THE CHARTS! :-?I'll have to do a huge water change to keep the bacteria from using some sort of reverse feedback mechanism I read about. I'll try changing some of the water and see if it begins cycling in a few days. All I needed was a liquid kit! I never liked them because they were so expensive, but now I see that they have (mine has) about 100 tests in them! Well, I have to go fix the aquarium. Thanks for suggesting liquid kits, stephanieleah!


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

After a 75% water change, the reading is now 7.0-8.0 ppm. I won't add any ammonia for a few days, and hopefully the bacteria will change that into nitrite! Thanks everyone!


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

You NO2 is 8 :shock: that's one heck of a kit to measure that far up....uhm i'd strongly suggest a super large w/c asap, right now tonight, that's not just not a lil not good for fish...but like real bad...dang 

You're cycling with fish right? (just so I'm not getting stuff mixed up again here)


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

nope. pure ammonia, with decorations and a bubbler. I keep the lights on most of the time, but I'm having a little algae grow in my tank. If I treat the algae, I have to remove my filter cartridge, but if I do that, I lose a little bit of my bacteria. But there's still some on the filter plates, which are meant to hold the bacteria.


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

Freddy said:


> nope. pure ammonia, with decorations and a bubbler. I keep the lights on most of the time, but I'm having a little algae grow in my tank. If I treat the algae, I have to remove my filter cartridge, but if I do that, I lose a little bit of my bacteria. But there's still some on the filter plates, which are meant to hold the bacteria.


I'd use a regular light schedule not only to treat the algae problem (they'll thrive with excessive light) and also so your plants acclimate to a regular and more natural schedule. I'm sure the benefits of this would be better outlined by more knowledgeable folks on here, but I've had it explained to me when I wanted to leave lights on overnight because my plants love it, but they just appear to love it. It's like giving them crack.

Algae will use what the plants don't, nutrients and lighting. May be a good idea especially if you have a timer for your lights, to do 5 hours on, a few hours off, and 5 hours on, then nighttime. This inhibits the algae's photosynthetic process.

The algae...is it brown? could be from the excessive ammonia. The plants will also help by using the ammonia.

And it's not really my business but I feel so relieved that you finally got an ammonia reading. That was really odd that it was testing at zero after adding all that ammonia!

I bet you get a nitrite reading in the next couple of days. If not, just buy some live bacteria. Or seed from your 10 gallon tank (that's what I did and I got a nitrite reading within one day)/:lol:


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Freddy said:


> nope. pure ammonia, with decorations and a bubbler. I keep the lights on most of the time, but I'm having a little algae grow in my tank. If I treat the algae, I have to remove my filter cartridge, but if I do that, I lose a little bit of my bacteria. But there's still some on the filter plates, which are meant to hold the bacteria.


Algae is extremely common in new tanks, specially when you have high Ammonia and/ or Nitrates.
I'd not treat it with no chems, that's silly really. Do you have any live plants in this very tank right now?
If you like, I can gladly walk through the algae mater with you, I just successfully battled 5 different algae kinds outta my 55g recently, if you like to, just describe what the algae looks like please?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The lights should never be on full time. Use a timer and have a schedule. Plants will eventually burn out (die) from constant light, and it does not help the bacteria that need oxygen to grow not light (how else would they live inside a dark filter?).

New tanks take time to establish a biological equilibrium; doing strange things with lights, chemicals, etc. is only prolonging the issue because it prevents the equilibrium from establishing. And algae is common in such situations and should be left alone to work through; all this fussing worsens it.

Byron.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I don't have any real plants, just artificial ones. And the algae is green. I have some Stress-Zyme (live bacteria) and have seeded my new tank from my 10 gallon. Will water that hasn't had water conditioner in it kill bacteria? Because I seeded my new tank with gravel before adding water, so it was still wet, but I think I might have killed off the bacteria on the gravel. There's still some in my 10 gallon tank that I could use for seeding. My ammonia is still really high, and no nitrites at all are showing up on the tests. But I do have some nitrate. I have algae in both of my tanks, but I'm treating the 10 gallon tank right now and the algae is dying off.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Green like...Hair? Like fuzz? Like lil green spots on glass/ plants? Like slime?
Always always always use water conditioner and yes chlorine on bacteria can kill them, if not to say will kill them.

What are you doing on the other 10g to "treat" against algae there?

Specially in new set ups I'd strongly recommend staying away from chem usage.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I agree with Angel on avoiding any chemical to deal with algae (or snails, or ... anything else). It is more important long-term to establish a balance so these things are not problematical, not masking the problem as the algae will likely come back when fish are added (they effect the biological equilibrium) and away you go again. Since you don't have live plants, you have no competition for the algae, but in this case you can turn off the tank light without worry to combat the algae. B.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

In the 10 gallon I'm using Ammonia Destroyer, for tanks with live plants, because I thought I would have plants until my pleco ate the sprouts. I'm not doing anything but having a normal light schedule in my 29 gallon. I used water conditioner as soon as I had filled my tank up to the top on the first day. I used some more substrate from my 10 gallon to seed my new tank further. The algae is in little hair-like clumps and is very short. It's the same kind in both tanks. It's on my thin-leaved artificial plants, so how should I get it out? I think there's a little in my 10 gallon's filter too. I'm really low on water conditioner. I got a coupon with my new tank and I was going to get some today, but my LFS closed at 6:00 instead of 9:00 like it does on weekdays. I'm going to get some tomorrow so I can change water freely.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Sounds like thread or Fuzz algae to me, which is EXTREMELY common in new set ups. Reason for that it develops when there's low CO2 (in your case, no fish, no CO2) and lil or no nutrient levels and / or ammonia spikes. Which judging from all I read so far, this is all the case in your tanks.

So if this was my tank, this is how I'd battle it: Heavly plant the tanks. Get a comprehensive fertilizer and dose per directions (usually 1x week) and once tanks are cycled add appropriate fish stock.
These measurement in combo with letting your tanks cycle and establish will outgrow / eliminate that algae quick.

I donno what this Ammonia Destroyer really is, never heard of it, never used it. But I just really wanna urge you, specially in new set ups, using any chem's but a conditioner and plant fertilizer can be very dangerous and hinter your tank a lot to properly establish a balanced bio system. Any cases I followed so far, chems used caused more harm then good and the only way it ever actually became better was when people stoped tempering with the water.

Edit on the lights: Easiest to do is get 2 timers at your homestore, they're less then $5 there, hook up the tanks to 10-11hrs daily setting and done. Also excess lights can support algae growth.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I haven't had anyone PM me about my pleco that I'm trying to give away, and I'm afraid he'll eat my plants if I plant my new tank. I'm selling a few things on ebay so I can get money for driftwood (I finally found some at my LFS - yay!:-D) and get some java moss or something to plant on that.

Oh, by the way - I haven't used anything but water conditioner, Stress-Zyme, and ammonia in my new tank, so no chems in there (except ammonia)

And I have a question about seeding my tank further. I have blue gravel in my 10 gallon, but natural gravel in my 29 gallon. I would rather not mix the different colors, so I put some smooth river stones from my 10 gallon into my 29 gallon. But I think the bacteria got killed when I put water in before adding water conditoner. So could I put some gravel in my 10 gal.'s filter? It's an external hanging filter. Or should I use the filter from my 29 gallon in my 10 gallon? I thought I had heard about people doing that... But my filter on my 29 gallon is too big for the hole in my 10 gallon's cover. What should I do about that?


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

I seen it..Had you posted it BEFORE I got mine i'd have taken him in asap ...sorry....
But now won't eat your plants, I can gladly post you pic's tomorrow of the updated 45 &55g...I think the jungle coming out of my 45g by now speaks for itself on the pleco matter lol

Heck just be careful with the java moss...look what it did to me :lol: it was as wide & tall as 10g and about 12" deep....so what about 1 sq ft maybe more...it was a giganto ball I can tell ya that

Thumbs up on the chems matter (i misunderstood then sorry for that).

Actual beneficial bacteria is in your gravel yes, but the most colony's of BB you will find in your filter. So if you can take the filter pad out of your established tank and just 'wash it' into the new tank (then put the pad back where it came from the old filter) that'd be perfect right there, then you really don't need no more nothing else to cycle or seed the tank.
I seeded all my new set ups this way, all I sued was water conditioner and 'filter muck as I 'professionally' call it:lol: checked my water parameters for few days and stocked fish, never had a single one dead on my this way.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Well it could take a while for me, my ammonia is still reading around 7.0-8.0 ppm, with no nitrite.

And I just made my first harvest of my whiteworm culture, and my fish love them. They don't seem to know how to eat them, but the gulped some of them down right when I put them in there. It took a while, but now I have another source of food for my fish.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Wow, Angel079. Your tank really got invaded with java moss!:lol: I'll have to be careful with how much I put in.

Oh wait, I said "ammonia destroyer" earlier. I mean Algae Destroyer.


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

Freddy said:


> Well it could take a while for me, my ammonia is still reading around 7.0-8.0 ppm, with no nitrite.
> 
> And I just made my first harvest of my whiteworm culture, and my fish love them. They don't seem to know how to eat them, but the gulped some of them down right when I put them in there. It took a while, but now I have another source of food for my fish.


I wonder if it would help to do like a 50% WC to get rid of some of that ammonia...might take a long time for the bb to build up enough to eat all that ammo then it will really take a long time to cycle. 

Mine is cycling fine now, with a nitrite reading t hat's growing (no traceable nitrate but I bet I get a reading tomorrow). Still adding fish food. I'm just enjoying taking care of the plants in there. I figure if I can keep them alive for a few weeks then I deserve some fish


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Freddy said:


> Oh wait, I said "ammonia destroyer" earlier. I mean Algae Destroyer.


I really wouldn't suggest using that at all in a new tank set up. The problem with this stuff is, its masking your initial problem that's causing you algae. So time & again unless the initial problem is battled, its gonna come back and you'll use this stuff over & over and that's not good, specially not if you plan on having pretty live plants. Stop the cause, stop the algae. ;-)


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

No, I was using Algae Destroyer in my other 10 gallon setup. In my new 29 gallon, I've only used water conditioner, Stress-Zyme, and clear ammonia.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Ok, I just did a huge w/c, and the ammonia reading is now 4 ppm. Should cycle normally now!:-D


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Let's hope for the best for you and your fish


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

How soon should I expect to see nitrites? I have a strip test kit for that, it's one of those Quick Dip 5-in-1 test strip kits, and it measures pH and hardness and (I'm guessing) alkalinity correctly, but I'm about to get a liquid nitrite test kit.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Uhm on the strips, it'll take ya a while, won't show up on the strip until its way sky rocketing...if you could get a liquid test you'll see it go up much sooner. Usually if all is set up right, few days.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I just put in my filter cartridge from my other tank, it's the same one I put in my tank a while earlier. I think I should take it out, my 10 gallon's beginning to suffer an algae invasion, and there's some in the filter... Would taking the filter cartridge and putting it in my 29 gallon transfer the algae problem between the tanks? There is a little algae growing on the cartridge.


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

The algae will thrive only if there are conditions to support it. If you keep your 29 healthy then no. I transferred som java ferns from my friend's tank and it had all kinds of black beard algae, and it never spread. It just sort of went away. Because my tank is (knock on wood) healthy. I think algae is a symptom, not the problem (Angel079, would you agree with this?)


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

What does your algae look like? Green spots, green slime? Black fuzz? Green thin hair?

Algae in new set ups is EXTREMELY common simply because of the system being out of balance at this point, add to this the rise & fall of ammonia's and NO's et volia a wonderful mixture for algae. So try describe what it looks like and i'll help you the best I can.
Just please do NOT mask this problem with chemicals now, that would be no good at all in a new set up.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

It's thin green hair-like algae. But it's longer than the previous algae I described, and isn't in little clumps.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Oh ok, so its the same algae then before, no add new developing on top of that...I already suggested what to do about that few pages back, so just ride it out


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

There's an API total kit at my LFS, but there's also an API nitrite test kit at the same LFS. The total kit costs $20, and the nitrite kit costs $10. Should I just buy the nitrite kit and wait until it tests 0 to add fish, or should I buy the whole kit so I can also test pH, hardness, and alkalinity? The total kit comes with another ammonia test kit, so I would have about 200 ammonia tests, but I've never needed to test for ammonia once my 10 gallon tank was cycled.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I would go ahead and buy the full API test kit. It has a nitrate test kit in addition to the others you listed, which is a valuable tool, even for established tanks.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Today, the reading is...

4 ammonia
0 nitrites :-(
0 nitrates

:-evil: My tank STILL isn't cycling!!! How is this possible?! I seeded my tank from my existing one, using gravel and filter material, I added commercial bacteria, I gave the bacteria plenty of ammonia to digest, and STILL nothing is happening! It's been about 3-4 days since I brought the ammonia down to 4.0, so they should have done something with it! I gave the tank an amount of ammonia from day 1! I don't know how much ammonia the fish food gave the tank, but there should be some nitrites! After 13 days, my tank has not cycled AT ALL. I think something's wrong! :-(


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Patience! Sometimes the cycle can take upwards of two or even three months. If indeed the ammonia levels were too high for even ammonia-eating bacteria to survive and this new, lower ammonia level has only been around for 3-4 days, you can consider yourself only 3-4 days into the cycle. Zero nitrites at 3-4 days in is pretty commonplace.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Okay. :| That calms me down a little. At least I've got a little more experience in cycling tanks now. Always have a liquid test kit.


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

There are refrigerated bacteria that work better than some of the non-refrigerated stuff (this is true for the brand i used anyway) that I've used to jump start cycling. I wonder if there's something about the type of ammonia or the strength or something. When I seeded from my 30 gallon to my 10 gallon I stuck a little jar of gravel from my old tank righ tunder the intake tube in my ten gallon filter. It worked after one or two days. I couldn't believe it.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Alright. I'm willing to give it a try. :-D Fingers crossed!


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I'm going out of town for the weekend, so we'll see what the reading is when I get back. And I uploaded pictures and a video of my 29 gallon aquarium!


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I just looked in my 10 gallon, and the algae is actually brown! What kind is that, and what should I do about it?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Freddy said:


> I just looked in my 10 gallon, and the algae is actually brown! What kind is that, and what should I do about it?


Probably what's called diatoms, or commonly brown algae; very common in new tanks at some point during the first 2-3 months. It cleans off easily with a sponge scraper (on glass) or a small brush (decor), or your fingers (plant leaves, gently so as not to damage the leaves). If this occurs in established tanks (very rare), it may be due to insufficient light or an imbalance.

Byron.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Ok. My 10 gallon is established, and this is the first time I've actually had algae growing on anything in that tank.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Oops. Sorry I didn't post with an update, but now here one is!:-D

3 Ammonia or something close to that mg: one of the bottles in the kit leaked and spilled chemicals all over my hand!
First Nitrite reading! :redyay::blueyay::greenyay::blueyay::greenyay::redyay::greenyay::blueyay:
0 Nitrate


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## stephanieleah (Oct 31, 2009)

Yay : )


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I dunno why the second :red yay: got messed up, but I just went to the LFS and got a full kit! I feel so professional now!:lol: (I was using strips for the first test.)

So the nitrite is officially 0.3 mg/L


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Wow, sorry to make this thread go on for so long, but the bacteria in my tank are really going through that ammonia! Down to a reading of 0.5 now, from 5 a few days ago.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Freddy, that is great news and I sure know what you are going through. It looks like your tank and the one I am waiting for is on the same time schedule. I finally got Nitrites for the first time the other day as well. I have had some Nitrates though for awhile. The ammonia is going down fast now as well! I cannot wait until this process is done. Keep us posted how how it goes. BTW, how long has your tank been cycling?


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Technically since Christmas, but really for about a week, since an ammonia overload might have killed off most of the bacteria I seeded the tank with.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Freddy said:


> Technically since Christmas, but really for about a week, since an ammonia overload might have killed off most of the bacteria I seeded the tank with.


 
Same thing with me....since two days after Christmas. Thought it was cycled and added three more fish (which I knew I should not have done) and then got a big spike. At least now it is at 0 Ammonia and working on the Nitrite part. I cannot wait for it to be ready!

Glad things are going better for you too.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Are you still adding ammonia to the tank, or are the fish still in there? You should add ammonia to keep the bacteria that break down ammonia initially alive, or if it takes too long for nitrites to go down, the first bacteria will starve. Glad to hear your tank's doing well too!


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Freddy said:


> Are you still adding ammonia to the tank, or are the fish still in there? You should add ammonia to keep the bacteria that break down ammonia initially alive, or if it takes too long for nitrites to go down, the first bacteria will starve. Glad to hear your tank's doing well too!


Thanks for post. I started out cycling with fish but then the ammonia got too high. I took them out and have been feeding the tank with food. I could not easily find straight ammonia around here. I assume doing it with food now would be the same as doing a fishless cycle with food. I have been feeding the tank food twice a day.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

I feed my tank with food once every two days, to give the bacteria a chance to start growing on the food. I added some yesterday, and the ammonia level has actually gone down! The bacteria are growing fast!:-D


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Freddy said:


> I feed my tank with food once every two days, to give the bacteria a chance to start growing on the food. I added some yesterday, and the ammonia level has actually gone down! The bacteria are growing fast!:-D


Isn't it a great feeling when it is going in the reverse? Mine is at 0 now, but I am still waiting for the darn Nitrites to go to 0. I hate this wait. 

You have fish in there, right? I forget now.


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Nope. Just food. My tank could use some plants, it's filthy! Terrible cloudy water, and as of last night, the nitrites were off the charts. I expected this, there was still a ton of ammonia after an 80% w/c. Too bad I can't add any fish that would normally survive cycling, no fish could survive in my tank... :-(


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Freddy said:


> Nope. Just food. My tank could use some plants, it's filthy! Terrible cloudy water, and as of last night, the nitrites were off the charts. I expected this, there was still a ton of ammonia after an 80% w/c. Too bad I can't add any fish that would normally survive cycling, no fish could survive in my tank... :-(


Oh, I thought your ammonia was coming down. Mine has been at zero for two days now. The Nitrites are still too high though, so I still have to wait. My tank is really clear, but I know that it is still not ready.

What kind of filtration do you have. I have a BioWheel (one size up from what I would "have" to have for this size tank), and a sponge filter. It is only a 14 gallon.

I hope things start to go the other way for you. I bet you will notice a difference soon, especially since you do have a high Nitrite reading. I wonder why though you still have so much ammonia. What is the count on it?


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

The ammonia's low, but it _was_ high. Remember, I accidentally added 10 tsp:shock: of pure ammonia when I had the first, cheapo kit that measured 0!

And the new kit isn't API, like I thought it was. It's a Tetratest Laborett, and it doesn't have a nitrate test kit!:evil: All I wanted to measure was nitrite, but nitrate would be a plus! Now I paid $10 extra for stuff I don't need!


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## Freddy (Nov 17, 2009)

Yay! :blueyay::greenyay::redyay::blueyay::redyay::greenyay::redyay::redyay::greenyay::blueyay: My tank finished cycling!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Well done. Good to hear at last. B.


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## HollyinWA (Dec 29, 2009)

Freddy said:


> Yay! :blueyay::greenyay::redyay::blueyay::redyay::greenyay::redyay::redyay::greenyay::blueyay: My tank finished cycling!


 
Congratulations! Now the fun can begin! I brought home 3 guppies yesterday for my daughter's tank that FINALLY finsihed cycling. What a relief! Have fun and let us know what you get!


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Haha, that's a lot of bouncing dudes. Congratulations!


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## gzarr (Jan 24, 2010)

*Should I start over?*

Congratulations! You've had more success than me!


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