# How can my fish look so hungry?



## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

I know I feed my fish enough. In fact, I know I over feed my fish so how is it that they always look hungry? They swim around staring at me and trying to get my attention so I will feed them. Sometimes, I set the container with food on the desk near the tank and I swear they look at me then at the food then back at me. I swear they are beckoning me to feed them. How do they do it? 

I know that there are some of you that once a week fast your fish. How long can a fish go without feeding? How long until it starves? I was feeding mine 2 times a day but have cut it down to once a day now. Unless they get to me with their sad eyes, which happens sometimes. I try not to look at them when I KNOW they are not starving. HELP!!! I am going to have obese fish because I can't NOT feed them.


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

LoL Inga, I can't tell you how to feed your fish. Some will say just once a day is plenty some say more is better. I only feed mine once a day and don't feed on WC days. Personal belief here is do whatever is working for you and your fish. If you feed more then once a day and believe you are overfeeding then just cut back to once a day or go with smaller potions still twice a day. I have heard fish can go a week with out food if they are healthy. I have never done this as I have always had someone feed my fish if I wasn't here to do it. If the fish are healthy and looking good and growing then keep doing what it is you are doing. I wouldn't worry about it as long as the water parameters are good between each water changing days.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

You could feed them 5 times a day and they will still look at you in anticipation when you get close to the tank. I feed mine small amounts twice a day. 

I have to assume they burn up the first feeding swimming around all day.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

I have studied this some. In the wild, fish forage for food nearly all day, every day. Some days are better than others. Because food can be scarce, like most things in the wild, they are 'programmed' to gorge themselves when food is available. And yes, like Pavlof's dogs they associate your presence at the tank with food so they come 'running'.
Yes fish can survive for days without food. So can humans. I don't know about you, but I kinda like eating regularly. If/when I go without, it's not good as by the end of day one, I feel queezy and light headed.
I know there are folks that withhold food a day or more a week in the belief that it 'cleans them out'. 
We had one fellow here that only fed his fish once a week! (one of those "I've done it this way for years and my fish are just fine so I know I'm right.")
I don't know if there's any science behind this and surely fish in the wild would not do this.
Now, without question, over feeding is very bad but I think the fear of over feeding has produced yet another fish keeping myth about feeding. I recently read that one of the top ten mistakes new fish keepers make is under feeding! - Believe it or not.

So, after a fair amount of research and pondering, except for fry which I feed more often, I feed my fish twice a day in very small amounts. This better ensures against gorging and seems to be working very well.
Also, some may remember from other threads that I feed very high quality foods made from fresh food grade fish rather than fish meal w/flour binders/fillers. I'm convinced this makes a huge difference and results in far less fish waste.

AD


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

That is the thing. One of my tanks is conveniently placed right next to my desk so I can see (with my peripheral vision) my fish staring at me with drool dripping from their little mouths. Alright, not the drool but it seems like they are calling to me. I know they don't want me to come throw a ball for them which is what I do when My dogs are behaving like this but... they want something. Maybe I should change my hairstyle so it hangs in my line of sight and I can't see them staring at me. 

Truth is, I like to feed everyone and everything. I am forever stopping to pick up food for homeless people and animals. I can't stand the idea of anyone going hungry and everyone seems hungry. lol


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

AbbeysDad said:


> -snip-
> We had one fellow here that only fed his fish once a week! (one of those "I've done it this way for years and my fish are just fine so I know I'm right.")
> I don't know if there's any science behind this and surely fish in the wild would not do this.
> -snip-


:shock: One day a week? That's... ya. But there are fish in the wild that go weeks without eating. Salmon swimming upriver to spawn don't eat at all. They run purely on fat reserves. Really neat stuff, wild fish foraging behaviour. But it is VERY different from species to species. When people say "fish" they can be referring to any of about 40,000 species. 

As for the feeding regime. I think it depends on the fish. My goldfish get fed small amounts about 4 times daily, but this is because they have small stomachs. The best way to feed goldies is small amounts 3-4 times a day. My bettas get fed 2-3 times daily. The younger ones get 3, the older ones only 2. The loaches get it once daily in the dark. I do withhold one feeding on water change day. And I don't feed them when I'm gone. My bettas have gone a full week without food and been fine. The goldfish just eat the plants. 

Inga, if you want you could increase feeding to 2-3 times per day and watch for signs of overfeeding like nitrate/ammonia spike or excess snails. Also depending on what fish you have, you could provide plants that they like to snack on. Maybe you could try a higher quality food. AD really is right. Food quality makes a difference; it actually caused some pretty major problems with my goldies until I switch to the good stuff.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

thekoimaiden said:


> :shock: One day a week? That's... ya. But there are fish in the wild that go weeks without eating. Salmon swimming upriver to spawn don't eat at all. They run purely on fat reserves. Really neat stuff, wild fish foraging behaviour. But it is VERY different from species to species. When people say "fish" they can be referring to any of about 40,000 species.
> 
> As for the feeding regime. I think it depends on the fish. My goldfish get fed small amounts about 4 times daily, but this is because they have small stomachs. The best way to feed goldies is small amounts 3-4 times a day. My bettas get fed 2-3 times daily. The younger ones get 3, the older ones only 2. The loaches get it once daily in the dark. I do withhold one feeding on water change day. And I don't feed them when I'm gone. My bettas have gone a full week without food and been fine. The goldfish just eat the plants.
> 
> Inga, if you want you could increase feeding to 2-3 times per day and watch for signs of overfeeding like nitrate/ammonia spike or excess snails. Also depending on what fish you have, you could provide plants that they like to snack on. Maybe you could try a higher quality food. AD really is right. Food quality makes a difference; it actually caused some pretty major problems with my goldies until I switch to the good stuff.


I do feed high quality food, I don't have snails but I NORMALLY do every 4-5 day water changes of 60-75% at a time. So, no nitrate issues at all. I do have plants, used to have more but am working on getting them grown in nice and thick again. I think all in all, I just like to feed them. I find pleasure in making them happy whether it is feeding or cleaning their tank. I love to see their happy little faces swimming around. 

I just got back from Petco and once again had to fight the urge to save one of those pathetic Betta cup fish. I hate seeing them. Maybe once the last of my male Guppies dies of natural causes (over eating? just kidding) I also buy a variety of foods so they don't have to eat the same thing all the time. Fresh frozen and freeze dried varieties. I have assassins which keep down any other pest snails that might crop up.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I love feeding my fish, too. And my cats and my dogs (that's the reason we now have a diabetic cat). I think one of the dangers that comes from overfeeding is a buildup of nitrogenous wastes, but it sounds like you have that under strict control. I did once see what I would have thought as "fat fish" at an aquarium once. I think they were neon tetras (can't remember). They all had huge bulbous stomachs. It was kinda gross. I know feeding goldfish a diet too high in protein can cause fatty-liver disorder. Maybe the neons had something like that. 

I hear you about bettas. That was how I ended up with 4 bettas. They do really great in 10 gal divided tanks. Speaking of which, it's betta feeding time.


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## Tetra Guy (Dec 28, 2011)

Mine do that too, lol! Maybe they just want to watch you. Curious like a cat. Mine watch me, they like to show off and greet me when I approach the tank. Through studying them, I noticed they each have a personality. At night, my albino shark tucks himself in behind the heater to sleep, every night like clockwork. Sometimes I think I can see facial expressions. They're very smart.


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## Tetra Guy (Dec 28, 2011)

On the eating bit: We, as humans, are 'super predators' meaning we are on the top of the food chain. We eat for pleasure, not survival. There is a big difference between those two types of eating. We go to a nice restraunt, get seated by the host, start with a nice wine, order our food, and so on... Think about it, we go for the experience, not just the food, but the whole production. So as said earlier, fish eat for survival, not pleasure. We spoil them when it comes to food. Because we eat well, we want them to eat well too.


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## Boscobear (Jan 7, 2012)

*Interesting thoughts on feeding, fish*

I've been to places where people eat for survival too. No being seated by a host.
Y'all speak of high quality foods for our fish friends, please post more on this feature.

It's been 30 years since I have included a few fish into my family. Yes, they're always begging, and I love to give them a pinch of flakes, and watch them eat them. I could do this many times a day, but I limit myself to this enjoyment, 3 or 4 times.

The LPS recommended a combo of TetraColor, and Tetramin flakes as the sole diet. Sounds boring to me, fish like it. If you could enhance my little buddies diet, please do. 
3 Gold fish, platy, and Big tuna with the orange dot on his head. KoiMaiden knows what he is called.


"I remember everything I don't forget"


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## Tetra Guy (Dec 28, 2011)

I was in the Navy. I've been around the world, and I've seen society's that eat to survive also. I have more respect for those folks than anyone else. They live in harmony with the natural world, unlike the so called 'modern' world where we 'conflict' with the world. It's like a virus. We consume (destroy), and move to a new place. We don't developed a co-existence with our Earth. 
Fish co-exist with our Earth, like all other creatures on this planet. We are the only exeption. 

So I'll get off my soap box and get back to topic. I feed my fish flake food, and frozen brine shrimp as a treat. 

I get the feeling you have a special connection with your fish. Which, I respect enormously! They know it too! They feel the connection with you! They know your patterns.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey Bosco! Big Tuna is an redcap oranda. I'd like to get one like him some day. I just need to set up proper quarantine facilities. 

For quality goldfish food, most people recommend New Life Spectrum sinking goldfish pellets as a good base food. As far as dry commercial foods go it seems to be the best. I use it with my goldfish and bettas. I supplement their base food with fresh (or frozen) veggies. Shelled peas, spinach, red lettuce, zucchini, and orange are great. I just bought a zucchini that was reduced for quicksale, cut it up, and froze it. I've been using that for a few months now. Goldfish also seem to have a love of orange slices. I'm sitting here, watching my guys go to town on one slice. 

The best quality commercial food you can get for goldfish is gel food. You buy the mix and make the food, so it does require some work on your part. I thought about using it, but when I discovered that New Life Spectrum didn't cause any bloat problems I stuck with that. However if you want variety you can get some gel food for your guys. 

Also forgot to mention that freeze-dried food can also be used (sparingly) as a treat for goldies. I like the Omega One brand. It costs less and is of an equal quality to Hikari. Frozen foods are also an option, but I've never tried them personally.


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## Boscobear (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks for this great information. I have been reluctant to add veggies or fruit to the tank. Now I know I can. I know it would be in small chopped pieces. Not sure if the babies have teeth. They're young, still infants. I am going to look for the "New Life Spectrum" today. I have planned to do a WC today. I have read that so many Aquarist do not feed on WC days. I wonder why? Is there that much stress caused by the WC? Or the sharp change in chemical elements ?
It is the science that keeps our interest also.
This valuable communication between members, here on this web site, makes such a beautiful difference. Over 30 years ago, I was fully into the addiction of tropical fish keeping, but there was silence, only a few books to read, we were alone. 
Now with the internet, and all the brothers, and sisters of the hobby gracefully sharing their hard learned knowledge, we all benefit, and so do our wet pets most of all. Thanks to all.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Trust me, your little guys will love them. ^-^ I love watching my guys chow down on veggies. I keep a leaf of spinach in the tank at all times. They like to tear little pieces from it when the mood strikes them. It also keeps them from munching too much on my plants. 

As to your teeth question, goldfish don't have teeth in their mouths like we do (and some other fish). They have pharyngeal teeth which are basically grinding plates in the back of their mouths. That's why if they nibble on your fingers it doesn't hurt. 

The tanks that I feed twice daily only get one feeding on WC day because I normally feed them again around the time that I perform the water change. I do it for stress reasons. Some people do it to "clean out their systems." I guess it's personal choice. But since you have young fish I would say feed them. Young goldies need a lot of protein so they can grow up big and healthy.


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## Boscobear (Jan 7, 2012)

*Great Dinner tonight*

The fish had some spinach, and loved it. There must be some items in the fruit & veggie families that should be avoided, and not fed to the fish?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Mine had some orange. I tend to only give it to them in day or two before WC because it clouds the water a bit. But they love it. I think they might like it more than krill treats.

Because there are soo many types of fruits and veggies my rule with feeding them to goldfish is: "If I don't have the OK, then I don't feed it." I like to err on the side of caution with these things. Generally almost all green and red veggies that are high in vitamins, carotenes and minerals and low in sugar will be okay for goldfish, but if you are in doubt, do a quick internet search.


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## Boscobear (Jan 7, 2012)

*Red Meat*

I gave the gold fish an earth worm today. I chopped it up with a razor blade, and flicked it into the water. They eat it instantly, and were looking for more. They acted like a school of Piranha. LOL One Earth Worm is enough. I hope it was OK, the wife thought it may add germs into the environment. It wasn't a big worm, a baby worm 1/8" thick , two inches long.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

You're spoiling your little guys! Earthworms are another great goldie treat. In fact, they would be eating stuff like earthworms in the wild. The only holdup I have with them (and all things that come from an unknown place) is I don't know what chemicals they may have come into contact with. If you use pesticides or herbicides in your garden it's not a good idea to feed your garden earthworms. Germs aren't as big of a problem as chemicals. It's actually not a good idea to make your fish live in a completely germ-free environment. Just like with raising kids, if you don't let their immune system come into contact with some germs it won't be strong enough to fight off the really bad bugs when they attack.


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## Boscobear (Jan 7, 2012)

*Where they came from*

The EarthWorms are in my special composter. House made veggies becoming nutriments for our Herb Garden. Using food waste to make food compost. I placed a couple worms in the composter years ago, and I have many worms now. There is also a composter made from yard waste, for planting flowers, shrubs 




I spent the whole weekend reading about soil tanks, and plants in the aquarium. I even sent for the Diana Walstad book, bet that's a real bed time story. Better than counting sheep I'm sure. Now my whole thought process on buying a larger tank, and what equipment to use has changed dramatically. Throwing biofilters out the window, along with high powered pumping. "*Hamburger Matten Filters*" forever....... Where do I go from here


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Those earthworms from your composter sound like they are a great idea! I wish we hadn't given away our composter. I could have used it to grow worms for my salamanders and goldfish. 

As for the naturally planted tanks, I know nothing about that, but I'm sure if you asked in the plants forum here they would be able to help.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

thekoimaiden said:


> Those earthworms from your composter sound like they are a great idea! I wish we hadn't given away our composter. I could have used it to grow worms for my salamanders and goldfish.
> 
> As for the naturally planted tanks, I know nothing about that, but I'm sure if you asked in the plants forum here they would be able to help.



Fish tend to enjoy the common house fly and spiders as well. Just food for thought when thinking of yummy treats for your fish.


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## Boscobear (Jan 7, 2012)

*Grocery store*

While I was shopping at WalMart yesterday, I got some sample veggies for the little ones. Why do they not like Parsley? I thought they would love it. Did not play with it, nothing. It just floated. Fresh Spinach is a big winner.

I also was checking out these planted fish tanks that are posted on YouTube, all I can say is WOW Holy Mackerel , fish keeping has leaped to new heights. I have a lot of studying to do.

check this out !


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

for saltwater i feed every other day sometimes every second day. usually when i do though, i feed enough to where theres excess blowing around the tank. you've got to think how many mouths are in a reef tank as corals are animals and have mouths too. 
i pre-rinse frozen foods in a fish net and either RO/DI water or tank water that gets discarded. i repeat this process 2-3x until the water appears clear. 
when my copperband butterfly was with me, it would only pick at frozen food so its main course was live blackworms. 
fish roe, asain supermarket dried seaweed ( used for sushi wraps ) and frozen seafood medleys chopped in a food processor are good ideas for food too.
i recently picked up new life spectrums micro/macro pellet line and have been giving that a whirl. in between the day or 2 day waiting period of feeding if i feel the urge to feed i offer a few pellets. when i get the chance i think i want to pick up 1mm pellets too as the micro is a powder ( coral food ) and the macro is slightly to large for my male clownfish to enjoy without me breaking in half.

some of this can possibly apply to freshwater feeding, like blackworms and maybe even using a small ammount of fish roe (eggs) in your food. i wouldnt use to much though as they are oily. i also suggest rinsing your frozen food before using it too. i suggest doing alittle reseach and getting creative. :wink:


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## Boscobear (Jan 7, 2012)

*Live food*

I have a good amount of earth worms in my composter. I need to cut them up for the gold fish to eat. Even the small ones are long, and thin, but how would they eat the worms in their natural environment? Would they be able to just bite a piece? If I put a live, uncut worm in the tank they will not catch it, and it would hide, and die inside some rock. The cut up worm floats a little, just long enough to all be eaten. OR I could be sadistic, and tie the worm with thread, or impale it on a larger fish hook corked off, and hang it in the tank. 
Are there live foods that would live in this fresh water aquarium, and multiply. Guess I'm dreaming of the ultimate feeding experience for gold fish, LOL I thought these tube worms could live in a closed system, and the gold fish could hunt them for food. More dreaming.

After seeing all these heavily planted fresh water tanks, I can't see why a live food source could not live in the same system. Then again, it seems that these fish don't know when to stop eating.


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## Boscobear (Jan 7, 2012)

Inga,
I just remembered your reply to me back on 1/24, I looked it up, because I couldn't remember who said I could feed spiders to the goldfish.
Why did I remember this statement? Well, I was in the crawl space under the house today looking for something, and I saw a spider. A Brown Recluse spider, and I have history with these babies. Two years ago I was repairing a valve on our lawn irrigation system. I placed my hand into the underground valve box, and this spindly legged spider jumps on my hand, then to my knee, and then my shin, where he left two tiny puncture holes, and leaped into the bushes. Any way after 5 visits, and 8 weeks of long none healing process with the dermatologist, the soft flesh just would not heal, and whatever was eating it, was growing. The doctor was left with scraping it out to the bone.
I saw the spider today, and I know it wasn't really the same one, but maybe. I thought I saw a grin.
So the question is, could fish actually eat one of these spiders with a venomous bite? I would get some pleasure watching the spider torn apart by our maneater goldfish. I would not want them hurt.
I am not scared of spiders, but have a much greater respect for them now.
Thanks for your past reply.


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## Inga (Jun 8, 2010)

Ugh! I am with you on my NOT love for spiders. I too had issues with them in the past. 3 times I required medical attention from spider bites. 2 times it was on my back upper thigh as though I sat on a chair or grass near them and they attacked. I had huge reactions and will save you the gross details but it wasn't pretty.

I personally wouldn't risk a poisonous spider. I would guess it would be alright but since I do not know the toxic effects it could have on your fish, I would advise you to squish the spider quickly rather then chance your fish getting sick. Even though I had these reactions, I can't torture a spider, I would smack it quickly though.


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