# Stocking 25 gal planted tank



## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

Hi,

Our 25 gallon tank was bought as a kit (Aqueon premium kit). The tank set-up is: 
Aqueon 30 HOB (came with the kit) and fluval 206 canister (added later)
150 watt Aqueon heater
T5 NO 6700K daylight and T5 Colormax (Both 14 watt & 24 inch)

Plants(currently): amazon sword (2), jungle vals, anacharis, anubias nana, java fern (1), windelov fern (2), mayaca
Planning to add: wisteria, telenthera cardinalis (my daughter wants this!) & dwarf hairgrass

Fish (currently): rasboras (7), cardinal tetra (3), neon tetra (2)
Planning to add: some more cardinal tetras (may be 4-5), male betta, gold rams (pair), some kind of corys (3-4), african dwarf frog, may be an algae eater like oto (1?; if needed)

What do you think? Any other suggestions, modifications, advice very much appreciated. 
I'm a bit concerned about adding the male betta, but there are conflicting opinions. One my kids is really interested in getting a betta. I am not sure I want to have separate tank. I do have a 2.5 gal which I use as hospital tank. 
What kind of corys are good for a 25 gal tank?
Will gold rams be OK with a male betta in the tank? Or with any of other choices?
I hear ADF being a slow one may be a problem while feeding??

Thanks a bunch in advance.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Hello and Welcome!

First of all, the most important thing to fish stocking suggestions is we need to know your water hardness (GH) and pH, in addition Alkalinity (KH) is good to know. The actual numbers are best, words like "soft" or "hard" water have different meaning to different people while numbers are more solid.

All of the fish you have listed are shoaling (as almost all small fish are) which means they should be kept in numbers of 6 minimum.

A Betta is not a good community fish. The reason you find so much conflicting advice is two fold. One, every Betta is different, some are more even tempered than others but statistically you are likely to have problems mixing a Betta in a community tank. For a Betta alone, 5 gallons is a good minimum, anything smaller will have water quality issues without multiple water changes each week. These are tropical fish like all the others, and should be treated the same (space, heat, filtration, water quality). Second, sadly a lot of people who's only experience with fish keeping is with Bettas are ... well not the most informed (a lot stems from what pet stores are telling them in the first place).

ADF would probably be suited to a smaller tank where you can more easily feed them. They pretty much need it placed right in front of them, and you don't want other fish that are faster and see it from a mile away snagging it before the frogs can get it.


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## Udra120 (Jul 11, 2012)

I would be super careful putting that male betta in. While I got lucky with my very first betta, the second I got to put in a 20 gallon community tank was agressive. He was ok during the day, but that night he went and killed all ten of my neon tetras. If you really want to add one, wait until all of the other fish are near grown (which could take a very long time) so that the betta will not find them as easy to pick off. Even then, it could still be dangerous and you should use caution.


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

Thanks for the input folks. I am going to pass on ADF. May also hold off on the male betta. This will disappoint my daughter  May a new tank or two in future... Any thoughts on using a divider with smaller space for the betta. I know our tank is not that big.. BTW I made a nice divider using couple of nylon mesh mats from Michaels (don't know what the actual use is!!) and plastic picture frame holders from Walmart. Got this idea from an internet post. Cost less than $4!


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

Thanks for the response. The tank parameters are: ammonia 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate 10-20 ppm (I do dose nitrate as per PPS method, but only every other day), pH 6.5-7.0, hardness 100-150 KH units. Will update on others (alkalinity etc) when I get home.


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

Also, do Rams have to be kept in shoaling numbers? I thought a pair would be fine....


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

No, you could not have a group of Rams in this size aquarium, but a pair could manage. They must already be a bonded pair though, you can not buy a male and female and expect them to pair off (It can happen, but more likely the female will be killed).


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

I am planning for only a pair. If they have to paired already, may be I can get them like that from my LFS? Thanks.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

It's possible. A local store may have pairs already. If they're all bunched up in a single tank, you can sit back and observe for awhile. In a pair, the female will stay pretty close to the male as they swim around I believe.


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

Geomancer said:


> No, you could not have a group of Rams in this size aquarium, but a pair could manage.


We had four RAMS in the 20 gallon holding tank. Three of them ganged up on the fourth. We kept him in a 2.5 gallon with Paraguard for a week, and he is now happy in a 20 gallon community tank.
I didn't notice that two of the RAMs were now beating up on the third. He was put into the little Paraguard tank, but he did not survive an injury.
The pair is now doing well in a forty tall that had been up and running for a year with six dither pencil fish. They've yet to spawn.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Commenting first on the initial fish list (post #1), there are several serious issues that prevent these fish from being in the same tank. Subsequent posts have considered the behaviour of a couple of the fish, but there are also different temperature requirements. I recommend you check our profiles, second tab from the left in the blue bar across the top of the page; each species mentioned is included, with data on water params, tank size, number for the group if shoaling fish, and temperament/compatibility issues if any. You willnote that some fish names shaded in earlier posts; that means the name is the same as we used in the profile and you can click on the shaded name for that fish's profile. Example, Neon Tetra.

The Betta will be much better in the 2.5g alone. This is not a community fish. Aside from the Betta likely viewing some of the others as food, in reverse some of the tetra will see the Betta's fins are targets for nipping. Characins (tetra, etc) have lots of teeth, and like to use them.

And while a divider in the tank may seem an option, it is not. First, this reduces the space for the other fish which is going to severely limit stocking options. Second, the Betta is still "in the water" and that means it is releasing pheromones and allomones that the other fish read, and they are doing the same; result is stressed fish notwithstanding the divider.

I would not myself suggest rams for this small (25g) a tank. While a pair will manage fine in a 20g the other fish have to be carefully selected. When they spawn, all cichlids are territorial, and females can easily and readily kill "nosy parkers." Dither fish (the term we use for tankmates with dwarf cichlids) have to be specific. If you goal is a nice peaceful and colourful aquarium, avoid cichlids, Betta and most other Anabantids (gourami). Small colourful fish will provide more interest.

In the water parameters, you mention KH but not GH (General hardness), this is an important value; you can likely find it from the water supply folks, they may have a website.

Byron.


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

Hello Byron, Thanks a lot for taking time for an informative post. I do agree the divider may not be a great idea and I have expressed my doubts in my previous post. So not going for betta or ADF. May be, I try betta in that 2.5 gal, but I still would like to keep a hospital tank. Will try to get a better, somewhat bigger tank later...
As for rams, I did some search after my daughter expressed interest in getting them. I understand, my tank will be OK with a pair of those, but may not want them spawing  We still have only rasboras (7) and tetras (5). Going to get some cardinals today. I have testing strips for water params. Will let know GH....
If not rams, what other type will you recommend. Some what bigger, non schooling,... Don't want all small and schooling...
Thanks

RG


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

rameshg said:


> Hello Byron, Thanks a lot for taking time for an informative post. I do agree the divider may not be a great idea and I have expressed my doubts in my previous post. So not going for betta or ADF. May be, I try betta in that 2.5 gal, but I still would like to keep a hospital tank. Will try to get a better, somewhat bigger tank later...
> As for rams, I did some search after my daughter expressed interest in getting them. I understand, my tank will be OK with a pair of those, but may not want them spawing  We still have only rasboras (7) and tetras (5). Going to get some cardinals today. I have testing strips for water params. Will let know GH....
> If not rams, what other type will you recommend. Some what bigger, non schooling,... Don't want all small and schooling...
> Thanks
> ...


A single Bolivian Ram should work. But not 2, whether a pair or not. Another option is about the only recommendable gourami and that is the Honey Gourami. A trio would be nice. Check these profiles. As long as the GH is not excessively hard, these will manage in most water.


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

We have a couple of Chocolate Gourami in a twenty long community tank. They are well behaved.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

cwmorrow said:


> We have a couple of Chocolate Gourami in a twenty long community tank. They are well behaved.


I hesitate to suggest these in circumstances like the present. The profile explains why.


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

The GH numbers are ~150 ppm (I am sorry I mistyped as KH in my orginal post). The actual KH values: 40-80 ppm. pH 6.5-7.0
ammonia 0 ppm

Now, when I measured for GH yesterday, I was alarmed my nitrite was ~3 ppm:-? I mean I have had nitrite and ammonia at 0 ppm for a long time. Admittedly, I have not done water params test in 2-3 weeks. My nitrate is at 20 ppm and I do dose nitrate as per PPS method, only alternate days. So why this (sudden) increase in nitrites??:-?

BTW, about 2 days ago I took some of this tank water, during water change, and put it in my 2.5 gal tank as I going to quarantine my new fish (cardinal tetras 5). The nitrite level in that water is close to 0 ppm!

Only other thing I did to my main tank at water change:
I put about 10 gelatin capsules full of Osmocote Plus. Also, I did some very minor replanting: shifted a small amazon sworda few inches to give more light. And I planted most of anacharis, which were floating since purchase (~3 wks) at a corner.
Other than that, yesterday I dosed Fluorish Comprehensive (lower dose ~1 mL) and Fluorish iron (again ~1 mL), in addition to my usual PPS dosing (potassium, nitrate, phosphate). That too, I dose them lower than recommeded for my tank.

I did 20% water change this morning. Not much change in nitrite level, understandably. Will do another 20% tomorrow morning. In all this, my fish are doing OK, apparently. Even my cardinal tetras.

Is there something in that would lead to give false nitrite level? I plan to do some tests separately, combing various ferts solutions I used - PPS solution, Flourish Comp, Fluorish etc - at different combinations and see if there's any effect. I ran out of test strips, so will have to wait. 

Thanks all...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

rameshg said:


> The GH numbers are ~150 ppm (I am sorry I mistyped as KH in my orginal post). The actual KH values: 40-80 ppm. pH 6.5-7.0
> ammonia 0 ppm
> 
> Now, when I measured for GH yesterday, I was alarmed my nitrite was ~3 ppm:-? I mean I have had nitrite and ammonia at 0 ppm for a long time. Admittedly, I have not done water params test in 2-3 weeks. My nitrate is at 20 ppm and I do dose nitrate as per PPS method, only alternate days. So why this (sudden) increase in nitrites??:-?
> ...


On the hardness, 150ppm equates to 8 dGH, so that is soft water. No issues there. The KH is not high, so the pH should remain on the acidic side, and that's good too.

To the nitrite. There are several factors that can cause nitrite in an aquarium, not related to the nitrification cycle per say, and i don't begin to understand them. But I am wondering why you are dosing so many nutrients? Are you adding CO2 by diffusion?

If there is no CO2, then you should not be using any nutrient fertilizers beyond a basic like Flourish Comprehensive. This has all the nutrients and in proportion, and is intended for "natural" or low-tech setups. Iron is not needed, and this can cause other issues. It is also toxic to fish, plants and bacteria. I am not familiar with the substrate Osmocote product, but as this is primarily a terrestrial plant food I would be very careful with possible overdosing. Something in this could be causing nitrite, I don't know.


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

Thanks for the response. I won't do iron then. Even as such I dose irregularly, may be every other day at best. Some of my plants show yellowing. Hence my resort to substrate ferts. A colleague of my fine has had great success with Osmocote in a low tech planted tank. And I researched on the net and there were many others who've had positive results as well. May I should slow down on these. Thanks again.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

rameshg said:


> Thanks for the response. I won't do iron then. Even as such I dose irregularly, may be every other day at best. Some of my plants show yellowing. Hence my resort to substrate ferts. A colleague of my fine has had great success with Osmocote in a low tech planted tank. And I researched on the net and there were many others who've had positive results as well. May I should slow down on these. Thanks again.


 
One of our members, 1077, uses the Osmocote with good results, so he might have some comments on this. My caution is that there is a lot of varying fertilizers entering the system, and these can interact.

Iron is certainly not needed beyond what you will have with Flourish Comprehensive. Yellowing leaves is frequently assumed to be iron deficiency, but there can be other deficiencies causing it--and sometimes a deficiency of one nutrient can be the result of an excess of another. 

And lack of sufficient light intensity can cause yellowing too; going back to post #1 it mentions two 24-inch T5 tubes so lack of light is not the issue.

Can you post photos of the plants with the issues? I might see something.

Byron.


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

I trimmed the yellowed leaves a couple of days ago, when I buried the Osmocote capsules. I shall post photos if the problem comes-up again. Another thought is the amazon sword which showed more yellow and it's been in the tank for about 506 wks. May be it's still getting used the plant? I would understand that might be if old leaves yellow, but there are some young ones too...


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## cwmorrow (Dec 25, 2011)

506 weeks or 5 to 6 weeks?


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## rameshg (May 12, 2012)

Oops.. sorry! 5-6 wks indeed. silly typo


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

rameshg said:


> I trimmed the yellowed leaves a couple of days ago, when I buried the Osmocote capsules. I shall post photos if the problem comes-up again. Another thought is the amazon sword which showed more yellow and it's been in the tank for about 506 wks. May be it's still getting used the plant? I would understand that might be if old leaves yellow, but there are some young ones too...


The older leaves that were on the plant when acquired will often die off over a few weeks. It is the new growth emerging from the centre of the crown that is key. If this appears green (may be pale green or darker, depending upon nutrients) and remains so, then all is probably fine. But if these new leaves begin yellowing or getting brown patches or holes or turning whitish with dark green veins--all these are symptoms of nutrient deficiences (or sometimes excess of some nutrient which causes deficiency of another).

Byron.


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