# Angelfish and gourami and pleco!



## otter (Aug 10, 2012)

Hello there  I currently have a 55 gallon "planted" tank (the plants are dying)
That has a 70 gallon fluval filter.

At the moment, I have 4 dwarf gourami, 3 serpae tetra, 5 xray tetra, 1 female betta, 2 peppered cories, one mystery loach (its brown and really small and looks like an eel, not aggressive and nocturnal) and one pleco ( I need help with him look further down)

I am moving the female betta out once my 26 gallon is cycled!

I am also giving away my serpae tetra

I am getting 3 more peppered cories

My pleco is... A different kind I'm not sure what, but he looks like a common pleco, but only grows 2-3 inches! Does anyone know what kind he is?


Ok What I am wanting to do is get 3-4 angelfish
Will they get along with the dwarf gourami?
Im a bit worried since the gourami are a bit nippy!

I think they're that way because the female betta pisses them off, but Is that an ok set up?


3 angelfish
4 dwarf gourami
5 cories
5 xray tetra
1 mini pleco
1 worm loach fish thing


:roll:

I really like tanks that have not too many fish, I could give away my xray tetra as well, but theyre cute


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I would not add angelfish unless the gourami are removed. Both species are territorial. 

The Pristella Tetra might be an issue too, in such a small group; increasing them to 7 or more would be best both for them and the other fish. In smaller groups like 2, 3 or 4 all characins can get nippy when faced with temptations like slow sedate fish. Five is not bad, but more is always better.

If you do decide on angelfish, a larger group is advisable. Angels are shoaling fish, living in groups, and within the group they will establish an heirarchy, with a dominant male. When there are only 3 or even 4 fish, one of the subordinate fish may be picked on relentlessly, and the stress will lead to poor health and usually death. A group of 5 or 6 in a 55g is fine (without the gourami;-)).

You can read more in our profiles of these species.

As for the pleco, there are hundreds of species; a photo of yours might help one of us pin it down.

Byron.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree with Byron. No gourami and angelfish together. Just too many chances for aggression. The female betta isn't making the dwarf gourami nippy, they are one of the more aggressive smaller gourami. It's just their nature. 

The "mystery loach" you describe is one of the _Pangio_ genus. I'm guessing it's _Pangio oblonga__. _Care for them is like any other _Pangio_ loach. They need groups of at least 6 to feel comfortable. Sand is best as a substrate because they enjoy rummaging in it for food. Hiding spaces are also a must as these little guys are shy and nocturnal. If you don't want to get any more I suggest you rehome this single loach as they often crawl under decor and die when they are stressed.


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## otter (Aug 10, 2012)

thank you! 
So I have another idea.
Do opaline or blue gourami get along with dwarf gourami?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

otter said:


> thank you!
> So I have another idea.
> Do opaline or blue gourami get along with dwarf gourami?


Only in very large tanks. Male gourami of any species are teritorial, much the same as cichlids in reality. So sufficient space is needed tomaintain more than one species, at least with the medium-sized more common species. Check the info in our profiles.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

Otter: as I recall from another thead your water's pH is very high. Am I correct? I would concentrate on fish that can tolerate high pH, but unfortunately, gouramis, angels and tetras are not among them. . .


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## otter (Aug 10, 2012)

yes, I am actually using oak leaves to lower it!


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

any luck?


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## otter (Aug 10, 2012)

yes! I have to figure out a way to get them into my fluval filter, but it is in my betta tank and working! 
oh and sidluckman I noticed your quote!
My names auden as well

I was thinking of having a gourami tank with cories and a school of xray tetra, but I can't decide now

Thanks for telling me about the angels, maybe I will get those instead of gourami


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

The leaves can be simply boiled very briefly, then placed in the tank itself. Leaf litter is commonplace in many tropical fish biotopes, especially in the Amazon where the river often floods the forest floor. The leaf surfaces permit growth of a rich layer of infusoria on which smaller fish might graze.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

sidluckman said:


> The leaves can be simply boiled very briefly, then placed in the tank itself. Leaf litter is commonplace in many tropical fish biotopes, especially in the Amazon where the river often floods the forest floor. The leaf surfaces permit growth of a rich layer of infusoria on which smaller fish might graze.


Boiling will remove any nutritive value (hence no infusoria or tannins). A rinse in plain water is sufficient to remove dust, etc. If the collection site is risky (possible contaminants, etc) don't use the leaves.

Placed in the aquarium they will float for a day or two, then sink. I am presently using dry oak leaves to feed my Farlowella vittata fry; when a new leaf goes in the tank they are quick to get on it and start browsing.


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## sidluckman (Jan 15, 2012)

While nutritive value may be lessened, I hope my cooked broccolli still provides me _something._ My Mom insisted that it did! I would hate to think these many years later it was all a lie!

Likewise, tannins don't simply disappear as a result of heat. Yes, some tannic acid will be lost, but not neutralized. 

My concern is how can we in any way be sure of the safety and source of leaves we put in our aquariums? I merely want the person to exercise caution. I recently purchased Ketapang leaves for my own use, but how do I honestly know that the same type of aerial spraying just used in Texas (in defense against West Nile Virus laden mosqitoes) wasn't used on the imported and rather expensive leaves I just bought? How do I know that drift from agricultural products in California (where our friend "Otter" lives) hasn't been present? I used to work in experimental greenhouses and what troubles me about pesticides is the fact that very often they are mixed with chemicals precisely designed to cause them to adhere to leaf surfaces. Personnally I don't care whether they are rinsed or slightly blanched, but however you clean them, clean them well.


Mr Byron: I will be engaging your assistance very soon as my delivery of Sphaerichthys Vaillanti have arrived even as I type this! Alas, they are one day late owing to a UPS screw-up which left them stranded unnecessarily for 24 hours in Portland. Still, five of the six are looking good. 

One, alas, is no longer swimming with us. 

Congratulations also on the farlowella fry! Good show!

Best to all!
Randy


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

sidluckman said:


> While nutritive value may be lessened, I hope my cooked broccolli still provides me _something._ My Mom insisted that it did! I would hate to think these many years later it was all a lie!
> 
> Likewise, tannins don't simply disappear as a result of heat. Yes, some tannic acid will be lost, but not neutralized.
> 
> ...


I can't speak for leaves purchased in a fish store; but hopefully they are safe, as one hopes the wood and rock purchased there is too.

I don't know the exact figure, but there is not a lot of nutrient in a dead leaf so i would not do more than rinse it. I don't even do that, but then i collect my oak leaves in my back garden in the autumn after they have fallen, and I use no pesticides or fertilizers there. I let them completely dry on the ground, then i bring them in and lay them out flat to fully dry.

Sprays would have entered the leaves as well as be on the surface, so if the leaf has to be boiled, it needs to be boiled so extensively there would certainly be nothing of value left as far as i can see.

My Farlowella spawn regularly, that is the easy part. Feeeding the fry has proven to be very difficult. I've tried the blanched spinach, green beans, zuchini, but none of this was eaten and only rotted. Fresh green algae seems the only food, and they are browsing the leaves a lot.

I have 3 now mature fry from the first spawning 2 years ago. This is all that survived the first few weeks from more than 60. I put five from the hatching a couple weeks ago in the 10g when I happened to be doing the water change as they were hatching. I've seen 3 of the 5, not sure if there are more. On average, there are about 50-60 eggs laid every 3-4 weeks. The other fish in the tank have nutritious meals anyway.


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## otter (Aug 10, 2012)

Thank you 
I will do that.


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