# Questions and Suggestions?



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

So I've been doing a lot of research around and I want to do a mini reef but I've still got questions and want to make sure that what I'm planning will work out and everything is compatible! So here are the spec possibilities:

10 gallon with 13 gallon sump/refugium (space issues)
OR
13 gallon with ~5 gallon sump with AquaClear 70 Refugium

EDIT: and I just found out that my second 13 gallon in fact did not have a leak as I previously thought earlier today so I could do a 13 gallon with a 13 gallon sump!

I assume the last option would be best?

It will be a reef tank so I've been trying to sort out corals and what works/doesn't work. Mostly I want to stick to easy corals and these are what I've been looking at lately. I will use live rock and live sand. Using liveaquaria as a reference.
Tree Coral
Torch Coral -I understand this is aggressive and to keep it away from other corals.
Sun Polyp Coral
Duncanopsammia

Those are the ones I would really like but of course, if anyone sees any real issue with these, please let me know! These are the other ones I was looking at but unsure about.
Green Polyp Leather
Colony Polyp

Also, are any of the corals on this site worth looking in to? I like the look of the colt coral and the star poylps.

And then potential stocking, going as for my 10 gallon and then if I do the 13 it will just be nice extra space.
The one I know I'm absolutely getting is the Red Ruby Dragonet from my LFS. And then I assume probably only one or two other fish would work for bioload? I have three other choices unless I can add two fish. I also like the look of the Yellowstriped Cardinalfish or White Banded Possum Wrasse or my LFS has these nano bred ocellaris clownfish although I don't know if they are actually nano or just labeled that way. I do trust that LFS though as they usually have a very knowledgeable staff and great selection of fish/plants/saltwater stuff/equipment.

I understand the water change schedule although I haven't researched on how to do them yet. I also understand the importance of keeping water quality good. My tap water is steady at 7.0, will I still need to use R/O water? Also I have 3 dKH and I had issues reading my GH kit today but I think it's very soft if that's the lowest reading...I'll recheck that soon. Do I still need to buffer to raise my KH/GH?

Lighting, what would be best for a tank that is 16 inches deep for the corals that I would prefer? 

I think that's the most of it for now, if anyone has any suggestions at all please let me know! I'm open to most things ^_^


----------



## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

There are a few things here that need addressing and they arent going to be good I am afraid.

First of all, you are very very limited in what you can keep in that size tank even with a sump.

Corals DO NOT even consider until the tank has matured and stabilized, in a small tank it is going to be a lot of work to get it going and stable.

You WILL need a test kit specifically for saltwater and a refractometer to measure salinity. I would highly recommend the Red Sea Reef Foundation kit and a refractometer from ebay. Both will set you back in the region of $40, more for the test kits. The test kit MUST include, calcium, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, Phosphate and general hardness.

Forget about what your tap water parameters are, they mean nothing as you will need to be using RO/DI water. Using tap water in a saltwater aquarium is going to cause all sorts of issues.

Next, Ruby Red Dragonets even though they are technically a blenny are extremely hard to get to eat. You should check with your LFS and make sure it is eating frozen food and not just flakes or pellets, they also eat copeopods which will likely come in the live sand and or on live rock. Clownfish you could do a pair in that size tank but not with much else. 

Lighting wise you are going to need, probably your best option an LED light for the corals, but as I mentioned, I would not consider corals until the tank is at least 6 months old if not more.

Calcium supplements as well if you do corals, calcium should be maintained at 420, Salinity at between 1.023 and 1.025 and depending on what extra supplements the corals need, you might need to add Magnesium and maintain it at 1200. pH needs to be around 8 up to 8.4

Poly, Zoas and Mushrooms are all good starter corals.

You will also need something for water movement in the tank. Ideally a few crabs, snails as well as part of your clean up crew.

As I mentioned, it is a challenge to keep a smaller saltwater tank but it can be done with a bit of work.

Hope this helps.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks Taz,

Yes, I realized that nano's are limited and it's harder to keep stable but I want this to work and am willing to do what I need to in the end.

I forgot about the refractometer and I do have the API freshwater/saltwater kit if that's any good. I just don't have Phosphate and Calcium which I can get easy.

The dragonet's are eating well, they've been in the LFS for a while now, I was talking to one of the kids about it all ^_^

Thanks a bunch. So I should set it up, add the live rock and sand and just leave it for a while? I'd heard a year's time to wait but 6 months is fine lol.


----------



## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Check and see if the live rock is fully cured, if it is not then yes it will need to cycle so nothing in the tank while it does.

Api is fine for a test kit although there are better ones, red sea and salifret.

In terms of adding coral, it depends on how well the tank stays stable, if you are prepared to work on it and monitor then you can do them sooner rather than later, although longer the better really.

I would wait on getting the calcium test kit until you are ready to add corals, but it will be needed once you get them and also calcium supplement.

Badxgillen, Wake49 are also salty tank owners so we can help as well of course as the members.


----------



## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

First off -I agree with most of what Taz has said and yes in this case more water volume will be better.

Second- All the corals listed will work out for short time in the smaller tank but I may recommend steering clear of the sun coral due to its feeding requirements.The beginner corals on the other site you have linked are good starter corals in my opinion.

Third -You can grow many corals with a couple of T-5 HO bulbs.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks guys. I'll take the sun polyp off the list then, a shame since it's so pretty too! But I'd rather keep a happy tank and one that is not full of hungry corals!

So I assume this is completely out of the question but I'd figure I'd ask anyway. I live 10 minutes from the ocean, like ocean ocean not a bay or anything. I doubt it, but would I be able to use that water given the correct salinity and whatnot? I assume not because of possible bacteria, other unwanted critters, not stable parameters unless I were to test the actual water lol. I could see it now, whole bunch of people on the beach and here I am with my entire test kit testing the water XD :rofl:

Anyway, I work in a biosci building and I might be able to get RO/DI water here, hopefully free! How much is that water cost normally from an LFS or wherever you get it?

How will I know if the rock is cured, I assume hopefully it will say it? Where can I get the rock? I don't believe I recall seeing it anywhere in my LFS's so probably online? Any fairly decent cheap places that I could get it? I assume there are differences in rock, anyone care to explain those?

Okay, another shopping list here to make sure that I'm looking at the right things at least. I don't plan on specifically buying from Drs. Foster and Smith right now, but just as a reference since it's all easier to see.
Refractometer
DI Filter this one I'm confused on since I thought RO/DI water filter systems were expensive? But from where I'm sitting it looks like just the cartridge w/gasket and filter is all I need to make my own water? Is that kosher at all? Or am I just completely missing something here lol.
Red Sea Testing Kit Is this the one you were talking about? Or is there another one with ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/pH? Or is it fine to use my API one for all that stuff and then get this for the extra?
Salt Mix I know Instant Ocean is pretty readily available at most stores, is there a different kind of salt mix you prefer and I see there are different types of mixes, should I use the Reef Mix or does it simply not matter in the end?
Sand any specific brand of sand better than the other?
Crushed Coral I actually have a bag of this at home, 20 pounds for help to buffer my water. Would it be useful in the reef tank at all?
UV Sterilizer I know the advantages of using these for sterilizing everything, but would it be worth it in the reef tank or just a nice commodity?
Skimmer can't forget this one! This goes into the display tank, correct?
Wavemaker can I use something like this on a powerhead or should I go for something better?

Oh and something I forgot earlier! Plants! I see there are some wonderful Marine plants including kelp, maidens hair and shaving brush plant that I am interested in keeping. Would I be able to keep them in the display tank with corals (eventually) and everyone is safe? Or is that a bad idea?

Also is there a mixture of calcium and other trace elements like SeaChem's Flourish for planted tanks, that I could use in the reef tank? Any specific brand better than the other?

Sorry for all the questions, I want to do this right.


----------



## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

It is illegal in some states to take seawater so be careful, some people do, do it but it is far easier making your own. There are lots of unwanted things in natural sea water.

Your LFS will know if the live rock is fully cured or not, you can get dead base rock but it takes longer to seed, you only need about 15lbs for that size tank, so it wont cost a fortune for actual live rock. Nothing happens fast in saltwater only bad stuff, so the thing here is patience.

That DI filter is ok but you would be better off looking at one of these units which is a full RO/DI system, it saves you dragging water from either your work or LFS. They will end up saving you money in the long run. Get a TDS meter as well so you can see the total dissolved solids in the water, eg you want 0 TDS coming out otherwise you risk getting algae blooms. The cartridges need to be replaced every six months or if you have dirty water, sometimes soon.

The refractometer you have is good also, you NEED to get the calibration fluid though which is listed with that. It is is essential for that refractometer to calibrate it properly.

You dont need a UV sterilizer in that size tank, water changes are going to be your main way of keeping good water. In my opinion it is a waste of money getting one for that size tank.

Kelp, no they get to about 10" high and can spread like weed. Brush plant should be ok but needs to have supplemental iron and trace elements.
Nothing in freshwater can really be used in saltwater, you need to get saltwater specific supplements. Prime water conditioner is one that can be used but I would not use Flourish. You need actual Calcium supplements once you start doing corals.
I would recommend this as well for keeping your dkh at optimum levels.

In terms of water movement, one or two powerheads would be sufficient. 

Skimmer is a bit of an issue, on a tank that size many people dont use them, but ideally if you are keeping corals then you should have one.

Plants, I would just get some Cheatomorpha for your sump, waiting until the tank matures some before adding anything to the display tank, it is personal choice but in a small tank it takes away viewing the fish, if they are in the display tank.

Sand or crushed coral as the substrate in the main tank, ideally sand if you plan on doing corals. It is easier to place rocks which will likely come with zoas if you get them eventually. You can use the crushed coral in the sump to help buffer the water.

One thing that hasnt been mentioned is how are you planning on getting water to the sump? Drilling the tank or with an overflow? You will need to work out water levels in your sump, so that it doesnt overflow with a power outage. Then you will need a return pump capable of keeping up with the overflow or greater. This is also why I suggested you get your own RO/DI unit as you are going to be replacing water lost to evaporation in the sump probably daily. This shouldnt be tap water as that can cause algae issues or cause your nitrate levels to spike.

Saltwater you want to aim for zero on nitrates and particularly phosphates.

Patience though is going to be key, it will take some time once you get the tank running before you can add anything so dont rush.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh no no, I didn't mean to USE Flourish, I meant if there were any that were comparable in the sea world. Like how it is a concentrated formula of most of the trace elements we need for planted tanks; is there a formula that is similar for calcium and such for reef tanks. I definitely know I cannot use freshwater stuff in the reef tank!!!!

I do plan on doing an overflow for the sump although I know it's not as easy or nice as drilling. Unless I find a premade tank that's cheap enough or I find someone who can drill the tank, it will most likely be an overflow. Any ideas for something to use to return the water?


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

I was going to chime in but taz covered most of what i would have said, I still will add my 2c
I nice choice for a light would be a par38 bulb full spectrum on a gooseneck. I started in a 10 g and i never used a sump on such a small tank. But its more preference. I also never used a skimmer, most small skimmers arent very effecient. However i did use a aquaclear 70 with a little modification as a refugium and put purigen as my filter media along with filter foam. And as far as powerheads go i used a small rio pump. Oh and a maxijet 600 might work depending on your overflow. I will suggest that you drill a hole in the return line just about or at themain tank waterline to prevent a flood in the sump in case of power failure


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks killavixen! I was actually looking at your salt tanks last night, loved when the anemone moved and you moved the rocks along with it; I really loved the look of it ^_^

Yeah, I think I may use the AC70 for a refugium as well instead of it in the sump. I was looking at those nice mods of the AC70 where they glue the mesh over the return and make a nice section for the refugium and then I could still put the heater in the filter there where it's divided, it looked nice all around so I'll probably do that. Phew, this is going to be a very full power strip huh? Powerhead/wavemaker, filter, heater, two lights, oh I guess it's really not much, never mind! lol

So I'm still a little confused on the sump part, just starting to understand more from reading on Wednesday. So the overflow part still baffles me so any explanation on HOW to do that would be great; I understand the point of it of course, just need to know how. I was reading the sticky on understanding sumps and I'll probably reread that soon. So then water goes into the sump and then gets out with a water pump like the rio pump? And then that goes into the powerhead in the regular tank? Am I on the right track at least?


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

ok, well you confused me, im just now using my very first sump. I'll use my setup to explain.
I use and overflow box, it hangs on the back of the tank and lookis like this







\
With mine you have to start the siphon the first time ( i do it with some airline )The water will only siphon as long as the water level is high enough. Next down into the sump by a hose, i used hose instead of pipes. Throught the sump baffles and the return pump ( mine a jp) it pumps the water back into the tank via another hose and these things








now if the power fails what would normally happen is that the return line stops pumping and the water falls back down creating a siphon. BAD. You can prevent this by doind this to the return nozzle, drilling a small hole in the side








oh and you will have to do tests to see where you water level in the sump needs to be. Which is pretty simple. Fill the sump halfway, turn on the pump (if you have the overflow box primed) does the pump start sucking air? turn it back off add 1/2-1 g and repeat untill the pump no longer suck air after a few min of runnin. now mark that level as it is you minumum running level. add water testing how much siphons back into the sump until it gets an inch or two from the top of your sump mark that level. That is the maximum fill line whenyou do water changes. Atleast thats how i do it. sorry if i confused you more
heres a guide:http://www.melevsreef.com/prime_overflow.html


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

another helpfull illustration








also if what i said doesnt make sense read this, heck read it anyway lol
http://www.melevsreef.com/node/1658


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ooooh okay! That makes waaay more sense now! The pictures in the sticky no longer show so I don't learn well without pictures/videos lol. Thank you for all of that!!


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

Your welcome ! and please read the guides i posted, they are really helpful in explaining how things work and what to do
BTW your artwork is spectacular!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Certainly, that's always the first thing I do, research research research!

I'm glad you guys are helping me but at the same time, try not to treat me like a complete novice. While I am grateful for all the suggestions, some of the things you say are a bit frustrating. As I had posted before, I've done research on this but needed help understanding the finer bits more or less. I don't understand why everyone tries to scare people away from reef tanks, yes they are expensive and more work intensive than a fresh tank but it's annoying when a person really wants a reef tank like myself and I get more or less stuck because sometimes people just keep saying all the warnings but don't really help with information. I'm not saying that you guys have particularly done this but when I'm helping people I always make sure to know what they know first and work up from there. Treating someone like a complete novice is both frustrating and not work conducive, just so everyone knows.

Yes, I understand reefs are about patience and time and money.

Anyway, thanks for the links everyone.


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Certainly, that's always the first thing I do, research research research!
> 
> I'm glad you guys are helping me but at the same time, try not to treat me like a complete novice. While I am grateful for all the suggestions, some of the things you say are a bit frustrating. As I had posted before, I've done research on this but needed help understanding the finer bits more or less. I don't understand why everyone tries to scare people away from reef tanks, yes they are expensive and more work intensive than a fresh tank but it's annoying when a person really wants a reef tank like myself and I get more or less stuck because sometimes people just keep saying all the warnings but don't really help with information. I'm not saying that you guys have particularly done this but when I'm helping people I always make sure to know what they know first and work up from there. Treating someone like a complete novice is both frustrating and not work conducive, just so everyone knows.
> 
> ...


Well im sorry if i said anything to make you feel like a noob, i get told all the time that poor people shouldnt be in this hobby lol. (on another forum) But i dont care, i budget my reef fund, and as far as scaring people away, most people just dont want you to make the mistakes we did starting up. Some mistakes are pretty costly, all the warnings are meant to help and are sincerely just trying to be helpful.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You were fine killa  I know this is all within good intentions but all the same; ask what the people know first, don't assume. That goes for everyone, not targeting you killa lol.

I believe if you know what you are doing, you can make a reef just fine on a lower budget; as you know, it's all about the budgeting and knowing what you want/need! I'm not necessarily poor but in my last year of college soon (second time senior...hooray lol) I have my student loans I depend upon. I always take out what I need for gas money and food (commuter) and then whatever else is left (usually a nice chunk of change) I get to spend on what I want. Art supplies come first of course but anyway, I plan to be able to get most of my stuff then as far as corals which was why I wanted to set up now and get it running before then. Of course, I know I won't be ready by September most likely but I'll have the money then ^_^


----------



## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

As usual I am always open to giving away starter macro,copapods, and coral frags. I know all about salt water and if you have patience then it is not all that hard. If anything I am the opposite and trying to recruit more salt water reefers,many people are not dedicated or serious enough to do the proper research,it is clear you want to go salt.Be warned it is ADDICTIVE.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

thank you badxgillen! Yeah, I've already thought of giving half my Betta's away so I have more time and energy for this reef! lol


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, more questions for corals in the future since I just want to learn everything now so I'm better prepared for the future!

So mixing corals, I know I can't have hards and softies next to each other, correct? Can I have them in the same tank or are there different requirements? What kind of mixes should I stay away from completely? Can I have SPS with Softs in my tank? Are LPS out of the question? Still a little confused on corals and what I can have together and what I can't. I see they have different care and lighting requirements, I should probably keep to low maintinence and low-medium lighting for the most part?

Is there any sort of formula to use for feeding the corals? Sort of like SeaChem's Flourish feeds my plants? I know they need the calcium but they need actual foods too like the spirulina brine shrimp? I was sort of reading on that but still uncertain. I know some corals don't eat the same things or the same sized foods, any help understanding which eats what?

I still have my question on salt mixes, do I need the Reef Mix or does it not matter which mix I get?


----------



## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

ALL Corals fight to some extent.Some via chemicals and some with potent stings,there are some that just simply grow over and"consume"the neighboring corals.That being said you simply do not want to have any corals touching that are not of the same species,one will lose. Due to varying requirements it is usually best to try and accommodate a particular type of coral such as soft,LPS,SPS then stray from there into the other categories of corals that have similar needs.Most people start soft,go LPS,then dabble in SPS. Once one starts to go with SPS the softs and LPS slowly become secondary as far as the tanks target parameters and flow change to accommodate the other genus of coral.

In the beginning I would not worry about feeding the corals as you should be aiming to have photosynthetic corals in your tank that derive most of the nutrition from the lighting and water column.After you have you system in check you can look into many types of foods but I prefer live or frozen foods such as brine shrimp,mysys shrimp,oyster eggs,plankton mixes, and more. Simply look at the size of mouth and go slightly smaller for the food items and do some research on the coral in question to make sure it will actually benefit from feeding.But feed sparingly.

You can roll with regular salt mixes for a while but if you start going with large amounts of corals or stoney corals you will probably want to get reef crystals or look into some osrt of dosing product for calcium,KH, anbd Magnesium.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay! So are Soft, LPS and SPS in a similar category or are they completely different but just live with each other all right as far as water requirements go?

So if I used these as Taz touched on: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4680+8067+4145&pcatid=4145 and http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4680+4676+4749&pcatid=4749 with the regular salt mix, is that comparable to using the reef crystals only? Is going one way better than the other if this is the case?

Also, I've stumbled upon a 30 gallon reef ready tank being sold on craigslist that, if the cards are played right, I might be able to get! This doesn't mean I'm going to rush into corals but I'm sure it would help in the long run to stablize the tank quicker again if I didn't screw up on anything? Is this a good idea to get or should I just start from scratch? The tank is drilled and has a nice looking sump on the bottom rack, looks maybe 20 gallons? I'll have to ask of that. Listed with the stand, sump and tank but I've asked about lighting and what kind of sand/rocks they were using and of course where they heck they are located since it wasn't listed! lol So that's also a factor; if it's too far out of reach I won't be able to get it but all the same, is it a good idea to get a tank like this rather than using my 13's?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh and you said no corals touching that are not of the same species, not type? Like could I put two softs near each other or is it the specific species of softs?


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

specific species. Like a Hammer and a frogspawn can sit next to each other, but they are both LPS. and both Euphyllia , one is Euphyllia ancora, the other Euphyllia paradivisa. But a frogspawn and a sun coral... death to the sun coral


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, so hypothetically could I have a tank with all Euphyllia coral and have them next to each other and have no issues? Well...little to no issues? I'm sure some of them will sting others regardless of their type? Or will say...two torch corals, if they were within reach could they sting each other or are they immune to their own species?

Also, still on about that 30 gallon tank. Is it a good idea to get that rather than use my 13's since it is already pretty much establish although I'd probably have to cycle it over again. I saw another journal about waiting for algae blooms before adding corals, do I have to wait for just diatoms to pass or other blooms as well? As in freshwater, the blooms won't hurt fish, correct?


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

OK now heres whare getting things secondhand can be a miracle or a curse. It depends on the health of the system. I would not use the sand. If you do you will need to rinse, rinse rinse, and repeat. Which will kill all the good stuff. The rock, you take the risk of introducing parasites, hitchhikers (both good and bad) and other unwanted creatures. And theres no way around it unless you acid wash it. But with that bein said it will help the establishment of all the good bacteria and greatly reduce the cycling time. SO its your judgment call. Inspect the rock very closely. Research live rock hitchhikers. And if you decide you want the system but not the risks vinegar bathe everything. I have gotten alot of secondhand things including live rock, and i have had some nasty little creatures come out of it lol/


----------



## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

Just because the corals are in the same family or genus does not mean they will not harm each other when in contact. Euphylia,Ricordea,Zoanthids, and Discasoma are an exception in that regard as they will not harm each other,just overgrow one another. But say acropora,montipora,acanthastrea,favia,pavona, and many others can really do some damage to each other when touching.When in doubt just keep em separated.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Turns out the tank only comes with the tank, stand, and sump. he's not including the pump that goes with it and there's no live sand in the tank but there is in the sump where the refugium is. There is also no live rock either so is 250 worth it? Should I try to talk him down to 200 if this is the case?

Thanks for info badxgillen.


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

IMO thats way too high. I paid 200 for my 65g and came with everything but the lights. and rock. Tank, sump, skimmer, 4 powerheads, return pump,stand. and sand


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Wow, okay good to know. I offered 200, have yet to--checking email currently to see what the guy said---well that was a rude ending! Here's what he said to my offer:

"really why you waste my time if i had it for $275 and dropped to $250 what makes you think im going to let it go for $200 the SQWD alone is about $80 i could get at least $150 for the sump cause i sold 2 of them i know i made these sumps goodbye this would be the last time we speak thank you"

what the hell is a SQWD anyway?

Anyway, still trying to wrap my head around the corals bit. So a Torch and a Hammer won't really sting each other because they are both euphyllia? But some other species will still be aggressive with the same species?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

So I found this listing: Fishtanks and Supplies it's like 20 minutes from where I live and he's got a 40 gallon drilled, I have no idea if he still has it because at present my phone is not cooperating and letting me pay by phone bill >.> So I can't call >.< but the listing was put up a month ago so I just really hope! 25 for a 40 drilled? Sound good? I know that still leaves a lot of stuff to get but it's a start, yeah?

Also for a R/O system, does this look good? Portable Mini Reverse Osmosis Di Ro Water System 4STAGE | eBay

So I still have a bunch of unanswered questions here, I'll post them again to this post so maybe you can copy and paste and add in your answers in a different color or something?

1. So mixing corals, I know I can't have hards and softies next to each other, correct? Can I have them in the same tank or are there different requirements? What kind of mixes should I stay away from completely? Can I have SPS with Softs in my tank? Are LPS out of the question? Still a little confused on corals and what I can have together and what I can't. I see they have different care and lighting requirements, I should probably keep to low maintinence and low-medium lighting for the most part?

2. So if I used these as Taz touched on: Saltwater Aquarium Buffer: Kent Marine Superbuffer-dKH pH Buffer and Alkalinity Builder and Reef Aquarium Care: Kent Marine Liquid Calcium Supplement with the regular salt mix, is that comparable to using the reef crystals only? Is going one way better than the other if this is the case?

3. I saw another journal about waiting for algae blooms before adding corals, do I have to wait for just diatoms to pass or other blooms as well? As in freshwater, the blooms won't hurt fish, correct?

4. Where can I get the rock? I don't believe I recall seeing it anywhere in my LFS's so probably online? Any fairly decent cheap places that I could get it? --I'll check my LFS again hopefully today.

5. What the hell is a SQWD anyway?

6. Oh, almost forgot, where can I get macroalgae for the refugium? Does it matter which species? I think there's different species, right?

I think that's all of them.....for now lol I apologize for all the questions but I do want to do this right!!


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

1. So mixing corals, I know I can't have hards and softies next to each other, correct? Can I have them in the same tank or are there different requirements? What kind of mixes should I stay away from completely? Can I have SPS with Softs in my tank? Are LPS out of the question? Still a little confused on corals and what I can have together and what I can't. I see they have different care and lighting requirements, I should probably keep to low maintinence and low-medium lighting for the most part?
You can have all of these in a tank together, they just cant touch,Yes you should stick to easy corals and as you gain more knowledge and experience try the harder corals. SPS are a the harder ones to keep, lps next, and softies are generally easiest. When you find a coral you want just research it and figure out what it needs and you wont have too many issues.
2. So if I used these as Taz touched on: Saltwater Aquarium Buffer: Kent Marine Superbuffer-dKH pH Buffer and Alkalinity Builder and Reef Aquarium Care: Kent Marine Liquid Calcium Supplement with the regular salt mix, is that comparable to using the reef crystals only? Is going one way better than the other if this is the case?This one i dont know, i use imagine ocean salt mix, i never need to add anything like that. You need to test these before adding anything. If they are low then add. And i recommend seachems line of the priducts Aquavitro

3. I saw another journal about waiting for algae blooms before adding corals, do I have to wait for just diatoms to pass or other blooms as well? As in freshwater, the blooms won't hurt fish, correct?
Yes, you will wait for the diatom bloom to come and pass. There could be other blooms after or before the diatoms. Everyones experience differs lol, 
4. Where can I get the rock? I don't believe I recall seeing it anywhere in my LFS's so probably online? Any fairly decent cheap places that I could get it? --I'll check my LFS again hopefully today.
Bulk reef supply, reef cleaners, marco rocks, marine depot, are some of the best sites. Word of caution never buy from aquacon
5. What the hell is a SQWD anyway?
Your guess is as good as mine lol
6. Oh, almost forgot, where can I get macroalgae for the refugium? Does it matter which species? I think there's different species, right?
Reefcleaners, reefs2go
Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...tions-suggestions-390834/page4/#ixzz30mIUQ5KQ


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

So I found this listing: Fishtanks and Supplies it's like 20 minutes from where I live and he's got a 40 gallon drilled, I have no idea if he still has it because at present my phone is not cooperating and letting me pay by phone bill >.> So I can't call >.< but the listing was put up a month ago so I just really hope! 25 for a 40 drilled? Sound good? I know that still leaves a lot of stuff to get but it's a start, yeah?
$25? oh yes thats good!

Also for a R/O system, does this look good? Portable Mini Reverse Osmosis Di Ro Water System 4STAGE | eBay
Eh... try air,water ice they specialize almost in rodi i use one of their units and its great, their customer service is also excellent
Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...tions-suggestions-390834/page4/#ixzz30mLobtBi


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks again killavixen! ^_^

I have to find that listing again so I can call the guy! Here's to hoping!


----------



## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

SQWD (should be SCWD) stands for Switching Current Water Director. It is basically a device that creates random flow in the tank and is generally not very good.

You can get any size tank of craiglist and either have your lfs drill it or you can do it yourself with a diamond tip glass cutter piece. Ideally you want one drilled with included bulkheads so you dont have to buy them.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Tazman said:


> SQWD (should be SCWD) stands for Switching Current Water Director. It is basically a device that creates random flow in the tank and is generally not very good.
> 
> You can get any size tank of craiglist and either have your lfs drill it or you can do it yourself with a diamond tip glass cutter piece. Ideally you want one drilled with included bulkheads so you dont have to buy them.


Lol! He was charging me 80 bucks for it because he made it himself! I told him; you wouldn't pay for a used car at it's original price, would you? Geeze, some people! He told me he didn't care about the money either :roll:

And thank you! I'm still a bit rusty on the hardware part of this all. I've heard that rigid plumbing is better than soft? Is this true or just personal preference?


----------



## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Plumbing wise it is personal choice but a lot of people use them both.

Soft tubing coming from the overflow to the sump and then hard plumbing for the returns.

Hardware is quite simple really, it sounds complicated but it really isnt.

You basically need (this is in an undrilled tank)
1) Overflow to get water from the tank to the sump
2) Return pump to get water back to the tank.
3) Split from the return line going back into the sump.

In a drilled tank it is almost all the same. Expect you wont need an overflow box as the drilled holes will be your overflow, you would only need bulkheads to fit the holes (bulkheads need large holes than the actual bulkheads).

If the tank is drilled for both an overflow and return then a return nozzle assuming it doesnt come with one.

Pump will be dependent on the size of the tank and how far it has to pump back to the tank, and also the flow rate of the overflow bulkheads.

If you want to go hard plumbing then add some union fittings so you can take them apart if needed.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay! Thank you for the explanation! Although I'm confused on what the split is? Where does the split go? Any pictures of this? I'll try to google some to see what I get since I learn better with nice pictures ^_^


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay I see what the split is but why does it go back into the sump? What function does that serve?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, just looking at stock again because I'm bored lol. This is stocking as for a 40 breeder that would most likely have a 20 gallon long sump, preferably drilled.

Pair of Nano Ocellaris Clowns from my LFS (How can I tell if they are bonded?)
Yellowstriped Cardinalfish
Chalk Bass
Scissortail Dartfish?
Red Ruby Dragonet
Maybe a Royal Gramma?

All fish are single unless otherwise noted. Would the Darter and Dragonet be fine together if I prove enough caves/division between area's? Also, can I have more than one type of cardinalfish or is it best to stick with one of any species unless a bonded pair? And I know to have absolutely no spaces in the hood with Dartfish or really any fish, I've had enough fish carpet surf to know it doesn't matter what the species is lol. Although....none of my guppies have ever jumped :roll:


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

Pair of Nano Ocellaris Clowns from my LFS (How can I tell if they are bonded?)
These are ok. One should be bigger than the other.
Yellowstriped Cardinalfish
This one is ok, and you could probably get 2-3 of these as they dont get very big and have a really neat hierarchy
Chalk Bass
This one is also ok
Scissortail Dartfish?
This one is also ok, but it will jump i suggest using eggcrate over the top of the tank
Red Ruby Dragonet
This fish is not for beginners, It is fickle and it needs a very mature tank in order to survive and have ample food supply. Im not saying you cant, im just saying you should wait. 
Maybe a Royal Gramma?
These can be bullies and are usually mean in my experience. But every fish differs so you may now have any issues lol


All fish are single unless otherwise noted. Would the Darter and Dragonet be fine together if I prove enough caves/division between area's?they would be fine together, but as i mentioned the dragonet isnt suitable for a beginner 
Also, can I have more than one type of cardinalfish or is it best to stick with one of any species unless a bonded pair?
I'll let someone else answer this one

Also if try using this AqAdvisor
And i can recommend a few fish if you can give me an idea of what you would like in color or chracteristics
Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...tions-suggestions-390834/page4/#ixzz30rLaCCAz


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, I always use AQadvisor for literally everything lol. 

Thanks for the tips, I'll steer clear from the Gramma anyway. Basically what I want is a tank that looks like a saltwater--yes that sounds silly but basically, no salties that look like they could belong in freshwater as far as colors go so I'm looking for more of the bright colors.


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

OK, small, cute and colorful
clown goby
panda goby
Cherub angelfish
Flame Hawkfish
Coral Beauty
Midas Blenny
Bluespot jawfish
Lemonpeel Angelfish
Lyretail Anthias
Orchid dottyback ( get a small one)
These are just a few i think you may like. Im not saying get all these but they are some options


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks for the list! I love flame angels but I prefer to stay away from any that might even been a little dangerous to the future reef.
I like the
Blue Dot Jawfish and the Orchid Dottyback!

Hmm, I see that I can keep more than one Dottyback in the tank provided enough hiding places, floor space and they are added at the same time. Can I do this? I really like the look of the Orchid, Splendid, I really like the Striped since it's more peaceful than its counterparts.

Gahhh, so many choices!!!!


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

well i always heard the splendid is more aggressive. And angels usually wont pick at coral as long as they are well fed, atleast in my experience


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, as much as I like the look of the Splendid, I'll try to steer clear from the semi-aggressive ones as much as possible. Although I know each fish as their own personality as well! But I was thinking maybe 2 Striped and 1 Orchid? I'll have to watch some videos on these guys and search other places for experience unless you guys have kept any of these fish ^_^

So definitely on my list are the hopefully bonded pair of Nano Clowns so I need fish that would be peaceful with them. I know the Yellowstriped Cardinalfish will be pretty peaceful as well as the Stripped Dottybacks so then the Orchid is a maybe since it's listed as Semi-aggressive. I think I'll strike the Chalk Bass as well just to be safe. I like the look of the Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse as well as pretty much all the Fairy Wrasses, mostly the Longfin Fairy Wrasse. Will different wrasses tolerate each other? I would like a Sixline Wrasse as well since I heard they're decent cleaners for unwanted pests. I see they can be a little aggressive to other wrasses, anyone have experience with these guys?

I do plan on keeping these guys very well fed, I already have plenty of frozen foods from my Betta's and other microfish. I also have live worm cultures, can salt fish eat these worms too? I've got grindal's and white worms for my Dario Dario, Ember Tetras and Gelius Barbs. The Corydoras Habrosus and Wild Honey Gouramis like to snack on them too


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Back on the plumbing parts of this. Still confused why you'd split the return and have it go back into the sump, is this some sort of safety thing?

Also, I have been looking into drilling my own tank, I've been watching videos and such about it but confused still on what size hole I want. Also, do I want a out hole AND a in hole or just out and have the nozzle go up and over the tank? Also, where should I put the hole? I see there is requirements on where is exactly the hole is like how far from the edge it is and all. Also, I see I could put it on the bottom or have multiple drainage holes but how exactly does it work if it's on the bottom, how would I not pull the sand in?

It's also looking like I want to make my own Sump from a 20 long with a refugium in the middle. Good idea?


----------



## killavixen (Mar 7, 2013)

OK im no good with the plumbing stuff, but the 20 long sump is a great idea. I keep an orchid dottyback in my 14g biocube with my two clowns. No problem. I had a sixline wrasse and it nearly harrassed my poor clown to death. Any other wrasse is ok and do well together. BUT Wrasses are not always easy. But i havent had any success in keeping them alive, i had a fairy wrasse . $100 died after two days. But i think the carpenters are supposed to be easier. Long acclimation, ask about the fish before you buy, Where;d it come from, whats it eating, ask them to feed it in front of you, & how long has it been there.


----------



## Roccus (Nov 1, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Back on the plumbing parts of this. Still confused why you'd split the return and have it go back into the sump, is this some sort of safety thing?
> 
> Also, I have been looking into drilling my own tank, I've been watching videos and such about it but confused still on what size hole I want. Also, do I want a out hole AND a in hole or just out and have the nozzle go up and over the tank? Also, where should I put the hole? I see there is requirements on where is exactly the hole is like how far from the edge it is and all. Also, I see I could put it on the bottom or have multiple drainage holes but how exactly does it work if it's on the bottom, how would I not pull the sand in?
> 
> It's also looking like I want to make my own Sump from a 20 long with a refugium in the middle. Good idea?


a few things to consiider if you drill.... be sure the glass is not tempered.. if it is.. you can not drill it.. it will shatter into a million little pieces just like your windshield.. the only differance is the tank is not safety glass and has no middle membrane to hole the itty bitty shattered pieces together..... also.. how will you skim your tank.. by using a weir or overgflow.. you are assured there will be no slick on the surface.... as far as the bottom goes... you use a stand pipe to get above the sand...again... the glass on the bottom might be tempered.. there are usualy warning labels on them against drilling..


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks again guys, yeah I saw that your Fairy had died Killa, that always stinks! Especially when they're expensive. My acclimation is always long, for freshwater I do 1 hour Drip minimum and if I feel they need more, they get more so I'm good with all those stuff.

As for the drilling, yes I know about the tempered glass. The Aqueon 40 breeders are non-tempered glass ALL the way around which is rather nice.

So which is more efficient? having a stand pipe or having a hole in the side? Now I'm confused on what would happen with just a hole on the side as it looks like I would still need some sort of overflow box or weir? I'm really enjoying the look of the "coast to coast" overflow though, inside the tank.


----------



## Roccus (Nov 1, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Thanks again guys, yeah I saw that your Fairy had died Killa, that always stinks! Especially when they're expensive. My acclimation is always long, for freshwater I do 1 hour Drip minimum and if I feel they need more, they get more so I'm good with all those stuff.
> 
> As for the drilling, yes I know about the tempered glass. The Aqueon 40 breeders are non-tempered glass ALL the way around which is rather nice.
> 
> So which is more efficient? having a stand pipe or having a hole in the side? Now I'm confused on what would happen with just a hole on the side as it looks like I would still need some sort of overflow box or weir? I'm really enjoying the look of the "coast to coast" overflow though, inside the tank.


 
Take a peek at my build in this forum.... I need to updat the pictures since I've changed my sump/filter design a little.. but the documentatiion is there... I made my own overflow box... in fact I made everything except the tank...it might give you a few ideas.. or maybe confuse you more:lol:...

my water stays crystal clear and never has any floating debris or film... IMHO.. the skimming weir is the way to go.. but agian I'm new to salt... alot of what i learned as a fresh water hobiest does not apply.... one thing that I realy like about the weir, is the fact that I can shut off the pump for filter service and the sump can never overflow...even if the weir were to loose it's prime.. the way I have the sump/refugium partitioned off, the tank can never overflow eiter... winner winner... hard to do that with overflows and bottom drains unless you have a really massive sump and high stand pipe..that for me.. to be effective needs to be close to the bottom...again.. I'm a salt water newbie so my salty knowledge is limitied...


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks Roccus, yeah I did take a look at your setup a while back when the Reef tank was just a glimmering thought running through my mind ^_^

I more or less get confused the more pipes people add to their set-ups lol. I'm certainly no expert on how a weir on toilets work and all so I'm going to ask my dad to explain that all to me and perhaps I will understand it better with a live conversation rather than reading since I'm not a good learner when it comes to simply reading something. I prefer to ask questions and make sure that I'm understanding it correctly in which text can only offer so much in that aspect 

So, I'm going to need a weir (probably center placed), drilled holes for intake and return. Is that sounding right so far? I know there's a formula on which size hole to use for certain amount of water flow and stuff but I'm no good with math. Anyone just want to tell me what size hole and pump I should get that will work well together? lol


----------



## Roccus (Nov 1, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Thanks Roccus, yeah I did take a look at your setup a while back when the Reef tank was just a glimmering thought running through my mind ^_^
> 
> I more or less get confused the more pipes people add to their set-ups lol. I'm certainly no expert on how a weir on toilets work and all so I'm going to ask my dad to explain that all to me and perhaps I will understand it better with a live conversation rather than reading since I'm not a good learner when it comes to simply reading something. I prefer to ask questions and make sure that I'm understanding it correctly in which text can only offer so much in that aspect
> 
> So, I'm going to need a weir (probably center placed), drilled holes for intake and return. Is that sounding right so far? I know there's a formula on which size hole to use for certain amount of water flow and stuff but I'm no good with math. Anyone just want to tell me what size hole and pump I should get that will work well together? lol


not many pipes in my set up..one in one out. both go over the top.. neiter is realy visiable form the front ... a 1" hose can handle approx 600GPH...fittings( 90 degree) and length of run as well as hose size and type( smoothe wall versus corrigated) all figure into the equatiion...if you are that set on making holes in your tank rather than going over the edge/top.. be sure you have the bulk head fittings first... then you will know what size hole to make.. a 1" bulk head fitting needs about a 1 1/4" or 1 5/16" hole... but check the fitting first, as they do vary from manufacturer to manufacturer..you only get one shot at it....


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Right, I mean, I could just do the overflow and run the piping over the top of the tank. It wouldn't be that much an issue, I just don't want potentially 45 gallons all cascading in my bedroom if it fails. So hence why I wanted to drill but if everyone has had success with just the regular overflow and piping over top then I'm not so opposed to doing it; saves me money and time really lol.

Still, where would I buy a weir? Are they custom or would I have to buy online?


----------



## Roccus (Nov 1, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Right, I mean, I could just do the overflow and run the piping over the top of the tank. It wouldn't be that much an issue, I just don't want potentially 45 gallons all cascading in my bedroom if it fails. So hence why I wanted to drill but if everyone has had success with just the regular overflow and piping over top then I'm not so opposed to doing it; saves me money and time really lol.
> 
> Still, where would I buy a weir? Are they custom or would I have to buy online?


I made my own.. they are for sale on line and at quality LFS.... if your sump is designed properly, and your weir is self statring, you should never be in danger of a flood.. some require a siphon break, those are the ones that can flood, but a self starter and a properly sized sump eliminates the problem... search through the forums here.. I got alot of my ionformation by researching the older posts in the DIY and water chemistry threads...some people put alot of effort into providing good information, it's well worth the effort to find it..


----------



## CLeftwich3 (May 7, 2014)

*Bulging side on Cory Catfish (Getting Bigger)*

My girlfriend and I have had our 10gal tank for going on 8 months. We have grown comfortable with correct changing and cleaning of the water. We clean the rock bed every other change, resulting in a small build up of green algae on the rock surface. Our tanks pH is good and the healthiness of all our fish is overall good. However, one of our Cory Catfish has a lump on his side that continues to grow, he swims frequently and normally and eats at his normal rate along side his catfish school of four. Can anybody help diagnose our cory? We don't want to lose any of our fish, any help would be appreciated. I have posted pictures below.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

CLeftwich3 said:


> My girlfriend and I have had our 10gal tank for going on 8 months. We have grown comfortable with correct changing and cleaning of the water. We clean the rock bed every other change, resulting in a small build up of green algae on the rock surface. Our tanks pH is good and the healthiness of all our fish is overall good. However, one of our Cory Catfish has a lump on his side that continues to grow, he swims frequently and normally and eats at his normal rate along side his catfish school of four. Can anybody help diagnose our cory? We don't want to lose any of our fish, any help would be appreciated. I have posted pictures below.


You've posted in the wrong place! Go to Tropicalfishkeeping.com and scroll down to "Tropical Fish Diseases" and at the top of the list of threads on the left hand side there is a button that says: "New Thread" click that and post all your information there.

EDIT: but just because it is here, it looks like he may have a tumor which is untreatable in small fish. Normally I would suggest Epsom Salt to reduce the fluid build-up but because he is a scaleless fish, that is a bad idea and will only hurt him more. There's not much else you could do for him if it is in fact a tumor unfortunately.


----------



## Raymond07 (May 27, 2014)

I currently purchased a Par 38 LED full spectrum lamp and housing to go over my nano tank of 5.5 gallons. I was wondering how high should I be mounting it from the water surface for best coral and plant growth. Eventually the light will be moved over to my 30 gallon Oceanic cube tank. Any help would be appreciated.


----------

