# water getting very dirty?



## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

Over the last couple of days the water in my aquarium has been getting quit dirty? The tank is fully cycled, and has been running since early November. My fish all look very healthy, but the water looks like it has all kinds of tiny particals in it? I do weekly water changes, but I don't vacuum the gravel very much because I have live plants I'm my tank. Any ideas?

25. G
2 glow light tetras
5 guppys
3 swordtails
3 balloon Millie's
2 Otto's

Nitrites 0
Ammonia 1.0 (started creeping up today)
Nitrates?
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## Exterrestrial (Mar 5, 2012)

Do your water changes when you vacuum. With plants I always find that you should vacuum more instead of less. It's harder to, but the plant debris can really dirty up a tank. See if that helps.


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## Chesh (Feb 17, 2012)

Hello!!! I'm new at this, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that there's too much waste in your tank! Bust out that vacuum, friend! The fact that you even have an ammonia reading in your tank is very dangerous, and the ammonia is caused by fish waste/decaying plant matter/leftover food. . .etc. Anything rotten. It's good to do weekly water changes, but with the fish you've listed in a tank that size, my guess is that you're overstocked, and should re-home some of your fish  If you can't rehome them, maybe you can add a second filter and do your water changes twice a week, instead of only once - with vacuum.

Again, I'm not nearly an expert, hopefully someone else can chime in here and give you better direction. Good luck!


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

how often do you change your water and how much do you change at a time livebearers do tend to be heavy waste producers. Also make sure that nothing has died in the tank, and I would make sure to remove any dead leaves that may have fallen off of your plants decaying plant material can also cause problems.


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

I do a 20% water change once a week, and only feed the fish once. Every second day. And there is no dead plant material or dead fish everyone is accounted for. I'm pretty sure it's just that the bottom of my tank needs a real good cleaning and I'll start doing water changes twice a week. And I can't really re home any of the fish, I have a nice 10 g but it's full of baby guppys. And your right about the live bearers being heavy waist prouducers, they are always taking a c%$p.
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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

cleaning your substrate well will help areas where your plants are at I would be careful not to disturb the root systems too much, areas where there are no plants would clean well. Also another thing you could try is instead of doing two water changes is do one water change that is larger. Many do one large water change around 50% This is something you may want to try once you have the ammonia under vinyl. Also do you know what your nitrate levels are? What type of test kit are you using to find out your water parameters?


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

I use the Nutrafin liquid tests kits, and I don't have the Nitrate test kit. I tested the ammonia again tonight after work and it's still and 1 or a little above, and I noticed one of my female swordtails dosn`t look well so now Iàm really getting worried!! Man it took me 3 and a half months to get this tank cycled and I thought I was in the clear! I think on Sunday I`ll do a major tank cleaning, but not touch the filter for a few weeks after.


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

couple of things first I would do a water change as soon as possible and not wait until Sunday, doing a water change now will help to dilute the ammonia in the tank, you can also use prime which is a water conditioner along with converting ammonia into a form that will not be harmful to your fish. I would also look into picking up a nitrate test, I know that api sells them individually, as for the test kit you have now I don't know anything about that particular brand. Many here use the api master test kit which gas tests for ammonia nitrites and nitrates along worth test for ph and high ph, this is the test kit that I recommend to others.


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

Thank you for the help BarbH, I will do a water change as so as I get up tomorrow. I would do it now but I had a few cold ones, lifting a 5 gallon pail full of water at the moment would'nt be good lol. I had a long shift! And I have a pH kit also, but did'nt think it was that important with this post but my pH is 7.5. And I've been using Prime for 2 months now.


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## ladayen (Jun 21, 2011)

I agree with Barb, doing a large water change is better then 2 smaller ones. When doing the Vac just skim the surface of the gravel dont go digging into it, unless you're sure theres not going to be any plant roots in the area.


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

I completely understand long shifts. The prime will definitely help. If I remember correctly prime will work for 3 days in converting the ammonia to ammonium, hopefully simone else who uses it will be able to confirm that. After 3 days I would test the water again testing before that can give you a false reading since the test kit can't tell the difference between ammonia and ammonium. When you test if you get a reading of ammonia again I would do another water change and dose with prime again. Repeat the process until you are getting 0 reading on both ammonia and nitrites. Once that happens I would just test your water parameters before you do your weekly water changes unless something is not right in the tank.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

This is probably a dumb question, but have you checked your filter to see if it has too much gunk in it ? You can do a gentle rinse of the media without upsetting the cycle. It's easy to get a big buildup of waste in the filter with big waste producing fish. Just a thought.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

By the way, the cold ones are my favorite part of the hobby.


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

Just a quick note if you do rinse off your filter do so in old aquarium water and not under tap water


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

I should have probobly have mentioned this first off, but when I did my water change last week I took the filter inserts out and rinsed the sponge out the old tank water that was in my water change pail.


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

did you rinse them out in the pail of the old tank water? Or under tap water?


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

I rinsed it out in the old tank water, I'am new to this hobby but not that new.:lol:


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

There's some mis-information in this thread...

I don't have a planted tank, but if you do, you should not gravel vac around plants. This may disturb/damage roots and removes valuable organic fertilizer. In a heavily planted tank, you don't need to gravel vacuum at all - merely remove surface material if it bothers you (but a layer of mulm is a healthy thing!

According to Seachem, Prime *detoxifies* ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for *24 - 48 hours*. This can allow a fully functioning bio-filter to process any ammonia/nitrites in the supply water. I would not use it routinely during a cycle - you'll need water changes if/when there are any spikes.

As to the dirty water, I suspect the filter media. Open cell sponge is really not fine enough to filter out fine particulate matter. In addition to sponge, I use a filter pad and filter floss (spun polyester) to filter fine particles and polish the water. For a neglected tank or filter, or a tank with high fish waste, there may be a lot of dissolved organics in the water making it 'muddy' (a lot of waste can quickly turn into a lot of manure tea!). The only cure is water changes and/or products like activated carbon or Seachem Purigen.
A tip is to guard against over feeding...even if there is not excess food that decomposes, the more fish eat, the more waste they will produce. Yes, like us, fish can over eat...and because in nature, at times, food can be scarce, fish are programmed to eat whenever food is available. It is better for the fish and the water if you are somewhat conservative about feeding.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

I hesitated about the charcoal, but it definitely crossed my mind. In an emergency situation, I would use it.


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

This is where I may have go wrong, see most of my plants are Java ferns or Anubias and Java moss. And none of those plants are in the subsrate they are attached to either rocks or drift wood. I only have 3 plants that are rooted in the subsrate, I guess I got mixed up a little. I was told a while back on this site not to vacuum the gavel in a planted tank so I stopped! I guess I have alot to learn before I tackle my next project, I plan on setting up a 55 gallon fully planted tank by next fall.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

*New 55 too*

I'm starting up a new 55 very shortly. Plan to have a base of rooted plants and fast growing stem plants. Good luck on your projects.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm in agreement with AbbeysDad. But I have a couple additional comments.

Filter cleaning. I always have cloudiness for a day--maybe even up to two weeks, depending upon which tank--after I clean the filter. So I wouldn't worry about this. It is usually a bacterial bloom, so the water gets more hazy than having visible particles.

Substrate. With substrate-rooted plants, this should be left alone. I never see "stuff" on the substrate or in the water, except during feeding when the corys and loaches are digging around the sand/gravel. This is normal. But, if it is bothering you, you can run the siphon across the surface to pick up the loose debris, during the water change. I do this in one or two tanks for specific reasons, but not in the other 5.

Water change should be weekly, and more, as noted. I would say in your case a 50% change would be best. A "Python" will make this easier than buckets.


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

Would it help if I added a second foam insert into my filter? I'am not running any carbon so I have the room, right now I have just the foam and the biomax inserts.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

I was speaking about true visible crap on your filter media. Other than that, the water change advice is the best to follow. For a short time, the bacteria bloom is a good thing, but it should fade within a day or two. Wish I could be more precise, but all else failing...water change, water change. jmo


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Without being there to actually see the tank water, we are covering a lot of possibles, and resolution varies depending what the actual issue is. If this is visible particles in the water, more foam/pads/floss/sponge in the filter(s) will help, plus identifying the source, and water changes would likely remove more. If this is a bacterial bloom (more just a fog or haze) then leaving it alone is the only thing to do; more water changes will worsen this as it simply increases the bacteria to feed on the organics in the fresh water [yes, fresh tap water contains a ton of organics you can't see, but the bacteria will].


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

multiple water changes is being advised on the reading of ammonia being elevated. Once the ammonia is in check than a weekly water change of 50%.. I agree that water changes for a bacterial bloom will more help but for the parameters that have been posted water changes need to be done for the health of the fish


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

BarbH said:


> multiple water changes is being advised on the reading of ammonia being elevated. Once the ammonia is in check than a weekly water change of 50%.. I agree that water changes for a bacterial bloom will more help but for the parameters that have been posted water changes need to be done for the health of the fish


Thanks Barb, I had missed that.:roll: And I agree, the water quality is much more important and critical than clarity.


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

Not a problem Byron, thought that might have happened;-)


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## Hanky (Feb 1, 2012)

if you have obvious debris setting on your gravel then get the vacum down there, I wouldnt vacum to close to the rooted plants but I dont see why you couldnt do the rest of the tank if there is junk down there. As far as your filter foam, Go to WalMart and pick up a package of Quilt batting from the craft area, its like 6 bucks for a whole bag of it, just cut to size you need, IMO carbon is only good for removing medications or other chemical additives. Best thing to get ammonia down is Massive water change, additives only work temporarily and mask the problem, gotta find the source of the ammonia and get rid of it, Either dead fish or plant material, etc. good luck


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Hanky said:


> if you have obvious debris setting on your gravel then get the vacum down there, I wouldnt vacum to close to the rooted plants but I dont see why you couldnt do the rest of the tank if there is junk down there. As far as your filter foam, Go to WalMart and pick up a package of Quilt batting from the craft area, its like 6 bucks for a whole bag of it, just cut to size you need, IMO carbon is only good for removing medications or other chemical additives. Best thing to get ammonia down is Massive water change, additives only work temporarily and mask the problem, gotta find the source of the ammonia and get rid of it, Either dead fish or plant material, etc. good luck


Actually at my local wallymart a bag of the polyester fiberfil is $4.00 !!! They also have a polyester fiberfil batt that's worth a look too.


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## Hanky (Feb 1, 2012)

AbbeysDad said:


> Actually at my local wallymart a bag of the polyester fiberfil is $4.00 !!! They also have a polyester fiberfil batt that's worth a look too.


yea I sprung for the batting cause it was already the thickness I wanted to fit into my clamshell media holder, anyway still a very cost effective way to filter the water. I also live in New York where we get taxed for everything, anything we buy we add 10% for sales tax. :evil: Damn government


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the help people. I did a major tank cleaning today by pulling most oof the decor out so I could really get at all the gravel and did find some dead plant matter on the bottom out of tank! And I found another problem I was looking at my filters flow and it seemed very low? Checked the intake and it was fine and then pulled the motor and there was a big piece of plant matter wrapped around the impeller. So it was only running at around half capacity, I don't know if that would make much of a difference as for particals in the water? Glad I found that though could have bunt my motor out!


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## Hanky (Feb 1, 2012)

OOHHH man, I just noticed your from Winnipeg, I shouldnt be helping ya since I'm a Buffalo Sabres fan and we are currently fighting for the same playoff spot so disregard any advice I gave you.

Just kidding, sounds like you just solved your issues, dead plant material will cause ammonia spike and filter running at half power is surely going to leave alot of debris in tank. you should be all set, I know you dont want to clean the whole filter too often but I take mine apart about every 6 weeks just to make sure theres no gunk build up.


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

Go jets go!!


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## Chris7 (Jan 2, 2012)

Good news, Tested the water today and the ammonia level is at 0 :-D. And and all thoughs little "particals" that where in the water are almost gone, the water is the clearest I've seen it in over a week :-D. I guess I have to start doing more for my tank,but it's well worth it and I'am sure my fish are thanking me! Thanks for the help people!


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

happy to hear that things are cleared up and water parameters are back to what they should be :thumbsup:
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## Hanky (Feb 1, 2012)

:blueyay: Good to Hear


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