# Is Whitespot deadly?? HELP!!



## FabSal (Dec 14, 2006)

My Fantail has whitespot & is looking close to deaths door.
Is it normal for whitespot to be so devastating?? I only noticed it 3 days ago, & now I think my fish may die.
I have 2 fantails in a Biorb, Ive had them for 2 & 1/2 year with no major problems, just one of them (Bop) has bouancy probs sometimes, i think its due to gulping air when feeding but he always gets better if i give him a few peas.
I added a new zebra danio 2 weeks ago (i have another already, the fantails ignore them & dont eat them!) then 3 days ago I noticed that the fantails were behaving strangely (swiming about manically & rubbing against the plants). 
On closer inspection I saw that they had whitespots on their tails. I have protazin & imediately began the treatment. I gave them a dose on day one & day two, then yesterday was day 3 & i did a 1/3rd water change (tap water left 24hrs to warm up & with stress coat added)
This morning my fantails are looking terrible, one is very lethargic at the bottom of the tank. The other, my favorite Bop, is lying on his side near the bottom of the tank, still floating but breathing funny.
What can I do??
All the posts Ive read made me think it wasnt a big deal, they talk about increasing the temperature (i have no heater so cant do that) & giving the treatment, but noone seems to mention it having these devastating effects. Im scared to go home & see my baby in pain, or worse dead.
Is there anything I can do to help??
Many thanks in advance


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## FabSal (Dec 14, 2006)

Bop is dead 
Im very sad


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## girlofgod (Aug 22, 2006)

i am so very sorry for your loss. my best guess would be that when you added your danio it may have introduced whitespot (ich) to your tank. do any of your other fish show signs of ich? i'm not sure what the treatment would be for coldwater fish, but i DO know that mixing danios and fantails might not be the best plan since goldfish are coldwater fish and danios are tropical fish and require heat. again, i am so sorry for your loss. 

bri


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## FabSal (Dec 14, 2006)

Yes, my other fantail also has ich. He wasnt looking as bad as bop this morning, but now he is looking worse. Lethargic & sitting at bottom of tank etc, which is what Bop was like yesterday. I think hes going to die soon too, isnt he? This is horrible, Ive had them for 2 & 1/2 years with no problems & although I may sound a bit sad Im quite attached to them. Itl be terrible if sputnik dies too, is there anything I can do now? Or do we just wait for the enevitable?
I have manically been ordering water testing kits & first aid filters (a biorb filter thing) but maybe its too late. I got the impression that whitespot wast too serious, Id like to undrstand why it was with my tank, if anyone can make suggestion?
Many thanks


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## Melissa (Nov 28, 2006)

Yes ich can be deadly if not treated. it will continue to reproduce. you probably got it in your tank then you brought your new fish home. i am sorry to hear, but it is hard to treat it with nothing.


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## FabSal (Dec 14, 2006)

usmcwife said:


> but it is hard to treat it with nothing.


Do you mean you cant treat it???

BTW my danios are from a supplier who breeds them in cold water, so they are OK in cold (and the ones I already had have been fine in my tank for a year or so), Im not so silly that i just got them from a tropical temperature & hoped for the best!


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

After reading the whole thread, it sounds more like a stress induced problem, not the danios bringing in the ick. If the danios brought it, they would have it too. However, the stress of 2 fish as active as danios will cause the goldfish to get sick. Another thing I have to say is that the BIORB is NOT the place to keep goldfish long term. That tank is not large enough and it is impossible to keep the filtration regulated once the fish reach a certain size.
Fancy goldfish should never be fed food that floats on the surface due to the swim bladder illness caused by gulping air. Although you have been treating it with peas, every time it happens it will cause permanent damage to the fish's swim bladder until eventually, it will just give out.
I will need to know what your water test results are for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH before I can advise using another medication that will help get rid of the ick. It could also be the meds you used that killed your fish, not just the ick alone. Not all meds are safe for all fish, and if the water quality wasn't in good enough shape to medicate, it can make the conditions in the tank toxic. 
And, yet one more observation I must mention... adding 2 more fish to a tank already too small for the current fish would have increased the waste load, and water conditions will also cause ick in goldfish.
Right now, the more information you can provide the better chance we'll have to save your fish. If you could list test results, number of gallons on your orb, temp, how often you feed, how much you feed at a time, how often you do water exchanges, how much at a time and the last time one was performed, and all other information, that would really help. Without that info, there's not much I can do for you.
Good luck to your fish!!! IF the other goldfish dies, please don't put any other goldfish into this tank. Fancy goldfish grow to 8 inches, and by 2 1/2 yrs old, should be at least 4 - 5 inches. Poor water conditions in the form of nitrate buildup will slowly poison the fish, causing stunted growth, causing internal damage, and weakening the immune system. 
The one thing you could do in the mean time that would help would be to add some marine salt to the tank, but I'd need to know how big the tank is before telling you a safe dosage amount.  
I wish I could do more now, but I will watch this thread for a reply and will get here with some answers as soon as possible for you.


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## JouteiMike (Oct 7, 2006)

girlofgod said:


> but i DO know that mixing danios and fantails might not be the best plan since goldfish are coldwater fish and danios are tropical fish and require heat.


I disagree with this. In my opinion, it is perfectly fine to mix danios with coldwater fish. I have a 75 gallon coldwater tank with 3 fancy goldfish, 2 weather loaches, and 4 zebra danios. Zebra danios will adapt to temperatures above 75 degrees, but from experience and research, they prefer upper 60s, lower 70s.

Real good advise in this thread. Those Bio-orbs just don't cut it, especially when you're dealing with goldfish. How big are the goldfish? I hope you plan on getting a tank in the 55-90 gallon range, cause the goldies sure will need it.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

In a 75 gallon tank the danios can work fine with goldies, but in the biorb... there isn't enough room for the danios to take their chasing to a part of the tank where it won't stress the goldies, and the goldies will have nowhere to go to get away from the danios. It's a matter of tank size/space that will make some animals compatible or not.
The biorbs aren't good for much other than a few fish the size of the danios like white clouds and neons and such. The shape makes it harder to decorate them properly for the fish, too. The filtration is the other problem... and if the tank is overwhelmed with waste levels, the biomedia that the biorb offers is not sufficient.
To keep goldies, the tank needs to be much much bigger! 3 goldies full grown will need at least 90+ gallons unless you want to do multiple large water changes each week... and anything under 75 isn't enough space once they grow to full grown size. It makes more sense to spend the money on the bigger tank and do less "work", and have healthy fish than to spend money on a 55 and need to get a larger tank in a couple of years and have a hard time keeping up with the maintenance until you can get the bigger tank.


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## FabSal (Dec 14, 2006)

I tested the water and everything was what the test kit said it should be except for nitrite which was a bit higher (pH 7.5, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 30-40ppm, Nitrite between 0.5 & 1ppm)
What should i do to reduce the nitrite?
I have done another water change & put in a biorb 1st aid filter, but not the meds that came with it as Im not sure how long should laspe between? (last dose was on tues night, after which bop died)
I have taken out the plants in case they wre rotting or something (didnt look like they were tho)
Sputnik, the remaining goldfish still has white spots on his tail, and the danios (2 of them) also have it & are acting a bit funny.

For your info i DO intend to get a bigger tank as soon as I can, but its not as simple for me as it seems it is for you, I dont have wads of cash spare & live in a tiny flat with no place to put anything bigger than my Biorb. I didnt realise when I bought the tank & fish that it needed to be bigger, but when I (quickly) found out from forums that it should be bigger I could hardly get rid of the fish (just 2 of them) just because their tank would be too small when they were full grown!
Im saving up for one now, and planning to move house early next year. 
Im not a bad person, I do try my best to care for them, doing regular water changes, cleaning the waste from the bottom, not overfeeding and immediately asking for help on forums when something went wrong (and this is the 1st time in 2 years). BiOrb DO advertise as being for fantails so I dont think its that terrible a mistake to make, its not as if I put them in a fish bowl vase with no filtration at all.

So as I cant solve the problem by running out & buying a massive new tank, please can I have advice on what to do with what I have - 
More water changes? if so how much at a time?
different meds?
other addatives? I read that garlic can improve fish immune systems??!
accept that the fish are just going to die???

Thanks for the sympathy & help Ive had so far


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

FabSal said:


> I tested the water and everything was what the test kit said it should be except for nitrite which was a bit higher (pH 7.5, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 30-40ppm, Nitrite between 0.5 & 1ppm)
> What should i do to reduce the nitrite?


Do more water changes to reduce the nitrites. Partial small water changes done daily by 10-15% will help.


> For your info i DO intend to get a bigger tank as soon as I can, but its not as simple for me as it seems it is for you, I dont have wads of cash spare & live in a tiny flat with no place to put anything bigger than my Biorb. I didnt realise when I bought the tank & fish that it needed to be bigger, but when I (quickly) found out from forums that it should be bigger I could hardly get rid of the fish (just 2 of them) just because their tank would be too small when they were full grown!
> Im saving up for one now, and planning to move house early next year.
> Im not a bad person, I do try my best to care for them, doing regular water changes, cleaning the waste from the bottom, not overfeeding and immediately asking for help on forums when something went wrong (and this is the 1st time in 2 years).


Don't worry, FabSal. We understand what you mean. For now, just do everything you could to save your fish. Water changes are never known to hurt.


> BiOrb DO advertise as being for fantails so I dont think its that terrible a mistake to make, its not as if I put them in a fish bowl vase with no filtration at all.


Advertising was a foolish thing.:shake: We simply don't encourage advertising small tanks with fish that do not actually require them. Try the site by Vivo and you see four goldfish in a small tank which is barely 25 liters.:sarcastic: Tesco has a go with some people in the UK after their tanks shown in the advertisements have goldfish and even a guppy. Their tank barely holds even 2 gallons and yet the decorations there are the office table and a lamp.:sarcastic:

Click the link, PFK's article regarding the launching of Vivo aquarium by Interpet.
Still not impressed by this one(in italic font).:shake:
*At 25 litres, the Vivo is rather smaller than Practical Fishkeeping would normally recommend for the long-term care of goldfish. However, the system is nonetheless a better choice than many other goldfish systems on the market aimed at children because it includes filtration and provides better guidance in the care of the fish.*



> So as I cant solve the problem by running out & buying a massive new tank, please can I have advice on what to do with what I have -
> More water changes? if so how much at a time?
> different meds?
> other addatives? I read that garlic can improve fish immune systems??!
> accept that the fish are just going to die???


Water changes. This will help reduce the pollutants thus allowing your fish to recover more easily. Stress often reduces the fish's immune system thus making them to likely succumb to diseases like ich.


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