# Angels and Protein Skimmer - HELP!



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

Hello,

Well, after 3 weeks my 54 GAL FOWLR tank now has soft corals! I added ricordia, mushrooms, pulsing xenia, and a couple zoos. I intend to keep only softies in this tank.

My current inhabitants are as follows:

2 clowns
2 PJ cardinals
1 mardarin
1 fire shirmp
a few snails
a few hermits

I would like to add a flame angel and bi-color angel. Both of these are pygmys. If I get them together, would they be compatible? Would they eat my softies?

Also, I need to add a protein skimmer to my setup. What do you recommend for this size tank?

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Matt,

I would not place to Centropyge angelfish species together inside such a small aquarium. The Flame Angel is your best choice for a reef environment, and much less likely to nip at your corals than a BiColor. The Flame is also much easier to keep. In fact, the BiColor Angel is a very difficult species that should only be kept by very advanced marine fishkeepers.

In order to recommend a protein skimmer we need to know details of your setup. Do you have a sump? Is this a 54 gallon bowfront aquarium?


----------



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> Matt,
> 
> I would not place to Centropyge angelfish species together inside such a small aquarium. The Flame Angel is your best choice for a reef environment, and much less likely to nip at your corals than a BiColor. The Flame is also much easier to keep. In fact, the BiColor Angel is a very difficult species that should only be kept by very advanced marine fishkeepers.
> 
> In order to recommend a protein skimmer we need to know details of your setup. Do you have a sump? Is this a 54 gallon bowfront aquarium?


How about a dwarf cherub and the flame? I'd like a good blue, red, and yellow addition. Again, any suggestions?

Yes, it's a 54 corner with a wet dry sump. Any recommendations are much appreciated. 

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Seriously Matt, I don't think you want to mix any two Centropyge angels in a 54 gallon tank. This is, however, a great excuse to set up another aquarium.-)

I like the ASM Skimmer line. I have an ASM G3 on my 180 and it is performing great. The ASM MiniG or the ASM G1 would be a good choice for your tank. ASM G Series In-Sump Protein Skimmers | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
If you get the G1, it can handle almost anything you want to do in that aquarium, or even upgrade to a larger tank size later.

We need to discuss your filtration. WHy are you using a wet dry on a reef tank?


----------



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

Sounds good. I'll take your advice and only add one pygmy angel. Will Flames pick at mushrooms and ricordia? If so I may pickup the Cherub Angel and look for something red and something yellow. Tangs are too large for my tank - how would a yellow watchman goby fit? Will they burrow in my substrate? What would be a good red and yellow addition?

It's actually a sump filtration system. The water hits the blue/white and carbon screens then it flows to the other chamber. The pump sends it back to the main tank. Is this the proper filtration system for my softies tank? I've head I may not need the blue/white filter.

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Can you post a picture of the sump? I want to make sure we understand completely what you have.

I think the Cherub and Flame angels will both present equal risks in a reef. 75% of the time you are ok, but then some individuals will pick at your corals. This could include mushrooms. I have a Coral Beauty Angel in my 54 reef, and every now and again it nips at the mushrooms.

I think a Yellow Watchman would be a good fit, yes. You might also consider a Royal Gramma, for some purple and yellow color.


----------



## conger (Feb 2, 2008)

or a Midas Blenny for yellow! I'm always pushing the Midas Blenny lol, awesome fish, reef safe, etc... Maybe a Midas Blenny and a firefish goby for a spot of red?


----------



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> Can you post a picture of the sump? I want to make sure we understand completely what you have.
> 
> I think the Cherub and Flame angels will both present equal risks in a reef. 75% of the time you are ok, but then some individuals will pick at your corals. This could include mushrooms. I have a Coral Beauty Angel in my 54 reef, and every now and again it nips at the mushrooms.
> 
> I think a Yellow Watchman would be a good fit, yes. You might also consider a Royal Gramma, for some purple and yellow color.


Here is a picture of the sump and my tank. Did I describe it correctly?

Matt


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I see a major detritus trap with that blue filter pad. I would remove it immediately. The water entering your sump only needs to be skimmed by a protein skimmer prior to being pumped back into the display. You can just place a protein skimmer directly into the sump, provided you purchase the correct model.


----------



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> I see a major detritus trap with that blue filter pad. I would remove it immediately. The water entering your sump only needs to be skimmed by a protein skimmer prior to being pumped back into the display. You can just place a protein skimmer directly into the sump, provided you purchase the correct model.


That is what I'm hearing. I should also remove the black carbon filter, right? Can I remove it before I add the protein skimmer?

What protein skimmer would you recommend for this sump unit? 

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Marine Series Advanced Protein Skimmers | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

I personally use carbon on my marine systems, but I do not like the black carbon pads. I prefer a bag of carbon placed inside the sump.


----------



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> Marine Series Advanced Protein Skimmers | Venturi Models | Protein Skimmers | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
> 
> I personally use carbon on my marine systems, but I do not like the black carbon pads. I prefer a bag of carbon placed inside the sump.


Is this the skimmer you use? Would I place it in the front compartment where the bio balls once lived or on the pump side? I saw a really neat design where the bioball side was turned into a refugium (live macro) and then the outside of sump protein skimmer pump was placed next to the return pump in the back chamber.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

This is not the skimmer I use on my 54 bowfront, but it is the skimmer I plan to upgrade to. I have seen the skimmer in action and was impressed with the production and ease of service. I have also talked in person to someone I know well that is using this skimmer on his 125 and is very pleased. Overall, I would not hesitate to buy this unit.

I am personally using the ASM G3 on my 180. I would have suggested an ASM G1 for your 54 bowfront, but the footprint of the ASM models is larger than the Marine Series Advanced Skimmer. Given the small amount of floor space under a 54 bowfront, I think it makes more sense to use the Marine Series skimmer. Plus, you save some cash and still get the needed results.

If your sump is large enough you could split the drain line and have a slow flow into a refugium and the remainder into the return area of your sump, housing the skimmer in the return. The problem becomes adjustments with the skimmer, because evaporation takes place out of the return area, lowering the water pressure placed against the bubbles in the skimmer column. You may also have problems with bubbles from the skimmer discharge entering the return pump and back into the aquarium.


----------



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> This is not the skimmer I use on my 54 bowfront, but it is the skimmer I plan to upgrade to. I have seen the skimmer in action and was impressed with the production and ease of service. I have also talked in person to someone I know well that is using this skimmer on his 125 and is very pleased. Overall, I would not hesitate to buy this unit.
> 
> I am personally using the ASM G3 on my 180. I would have suggested an ASM G1 for your 54 bowfront, but the footprint of the ASM models is larger than the Marine Series Advanced Skimmer. Given the small amount of floor space under a 54 bowfront, I think it makes more sense to use the Marine Series skimmer. Plus, you save some cash and still get the needed results.
> 
> If your sump is large enough you could split the drain line and have a slow flow into a refugium and the remainder into the return area of your sump, housing the skimmer in the return. The problem becomes adjustments with the skimmer, because evaporation takes place out of the return area, lowering the water pressure placed against the bubbles in the skimmer column. You may also have problems with bubbles from the skimmer discharge entering the return pump and back into the aquarium.



I like this idea!!! My current sump is 8" x 18" (Amiracle Slim Line 50) - 

Amiracle®

The back return area is 8x8. The front section is 8x10. The front 6" is slanted, leaving the 4" closest to the return area flat.

What if I kept my current box and only added the external refugium? I could add a 10x11 fuge and have it fall into the return area.

Would the front or back section of my current sump be large enough to hold the protein skimmer and do what I want? I could easily flip the box and make the 8x8 flat section house the protein skimmer and the larger area catch the fuge water and pump it back to the tank.

Would that work?

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

The skimmer I listed only needs a 5'' x 5'' footprint, so yes it will fit.


----------



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

Pasfur said:


> The skimmer I listed only needs a 5'' x 5'' footprint, so yes it will fit.



Have you heard anything about the 
*ASM MINI-G Protein Skimmer?*


A friend suggested it as an alternative to the marineland one you suggested. Have you heard of this ASM mini?

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

i have an ASM mini and i liked it when i used it. i removed the sponge. i also wouldnt use it on any tank larger then 45-50 gallons so if you plan on upgrading the tank size i think a new skimmer would be needed.


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I use an ASM G3 on my 180 and I like it a lot. I would not hesitate to buy any of the ASM skimmers. Just make sure you have space in your sump.


----------



## dmatt56 (Jun 22, 2009)

*Need to add pods?*

Hello Everyone,

My 54 GAL corner bow front now has the following inhabitants:

2 clowns
3 chromis
1 red scooter
1 green mandarin
1 red bali starfish
cleaner shrimp
peppermint shrimp
various species of snails
red and blue leg hermits

Both the scooter and mandarin are eating well (mysis), but I've been reading I should add pods to my tank (copepods and amphipods) to boost the system.

Does anything have thoughts for or against adding the pods? How many should I add?

How do I add them? 

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## mdrobc13 (Jun 12, 2009)

dmatt56 said:


> Is this the skimmer you use? Would I place it in the front compartment where the bio balls once lived or on the pump side? I saw a really neat design where the bioball side was turned into a refugium (live macro) and then the outside of sump protein skimmer pump was placed next to the return pump in the back chamber.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


I've got two of them on both of my 56 gal and 55 gal tanks - the Marineland 100 Advanced Skimmer and so far they work great and fit well into almost any sump. Pretty good choice....also one recommended by those on the forum.

Rob


----------



## zachhay11 (Dec 27, 2008)

sorry to get off topic but how would a flame angel do in a 65 gallon predator tank?


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

zachhay11 said:


> sorry to get off topic but how would a flame angel do in a 65 gallon predator tank?


Flame Angels are rather aggressive for their size, but it depends on what you mean by predator, because many true predators will consider the Flame Angel to be snack size.


----------



## JLong80 (Aug 15, 2007)

also, back to placing two angels in a small tank, I was considering placing a flame angel and a singapore angel in the same tank, since the singapore isn't a centropyge.


----------



## Krinedawg (Aug 5, 2009)

I agree on the ASM series of skimmers, also look at euroreef.


----------



## zachhay11 (Dec 27, 2008)

Pasfur said:


> Flame Angels are rather aggressive for their size, but it depends on what you mean by predator, because many true predators will consider the Flame Angel to be snack size.


probably nothing bigger then 6 or 7 inchs. if you can recall i own a 65 gallon and want a dwarf lion.(other then that its just gonna be maybe large maroons, or small types of tangs. or MAYBE one very small and mellow trigger, or puffer)


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Honestly, I do not like most of the plans you are making on these fish selections. At best you are pushing your luck.

Mixing a predator such as a Dwarf Lion in a small aquarium with a Flame Angel is a stress factor for the Flame. There is just no reason to intentionally cause stress to marine aquarium fish. A Singapore Angel is an extremely difficult species, and needs more room to thrive than you can offer. There is no such thing as a "mellow" Trigger fish, especially in this tank size. And finally, the only Puffers which would have adequate space are the Toby puffers, so hopefully this is what you have in mind.

Sorry, I can't support these ideas when long term success is considered.


----------



## zachhay11 (Dec 27, 2008)

yeah, i've actually been kinda thinking it would be better off if i just wen't with a community tank and maybe go into inverts depending on my success with hardier community fish. as much as i want a lion i just don't like my odds in that size tank. also, if i have more smaller compatable fish, like gobies, clowns, cardnals, ect. i can then have room for a cleaning crew of snails and small crabs and such. anyway sorry about being a hijacker, carry on


----------

