# New Fish Store need help and oppinions



## migdem (Jul 4, 2008)

I am going to start a business of a tropical fish store. Could I have some ideas on how to do the rack and the filters.

My idea was that I do tanks 60cmx30cmx30cm and others 120cmx30cmx30cm. Is this a good size? I will be getting only freshwater fish for now until the store will begin up and running.

About the filters I was going to do it by sump on the bottom of the rack and feeding 3 aquarium. Is this good or should I put a filter in each tank and that way I could have 4 display tanks instead of 3? If I put a filter in each aquarium should it be external or internal?

About the rack I had this in mind that I will do similar with aluminium obviously fitted by a professional aluminium worker.









Last thing should I put grave or no? I prefer no gravel because it is easier to clean.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

very nice. :wink:


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

First of all let me wish you good luck! I've been looking into the same thing and throwing some ideas around.

Tank size, will all depend on the fish you are housing of course and your sizes seem to be about right but its probably something you will just have to figure out as you go (maybe theres a hidden shop keeper here on the forum that can help more)

Sump or no... If I was going to do a setup with a ton of tanks, I would defiantly look at doing a sump setup, its over all less maintenance required then having each tank separate, let me throw some points at you at why I would go with sump setups;

1. When you need to do water changes you can change from the sump so you do multiple tanks at once, saving you time especially when you need to change 10's and 10's at a time.

2. With constantly fluctuating stock levels the sumps will save you from having to constantly moving filter material around to keep the bacteria going, as your bound to keep at least one of the tanks in the sump full of fish.

3. If you need to move fish from tank to tank as long as its in the same setup you can instantly move them since its the same water.

4. Keeps the display tanks free of ugly filters and heaters, plus you will need to invest in less heaters and replace less of them since one will handle all the tanks.

Some cons of course are the chance of disease out breaks between multiple tanks, the higher setup cost and the greater chance for leaks. But all in all its worth it in my opinion, plus you will only loose the bottom 2 feet for display, an area most people don't like going that low anyways (besides kids). And if you really need the extra tanks then you can go with a stack of 30x30x30 for the smaller fish or fish you have less quantity of.

If you do decide to go with filters then use sponge filters, they are easier to move around and take care of.

As for gravel, I'd say no for the most part, its easier to maintain with out it and easier to catch fish but I've sure for some fish you will want to add some gravel.


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## SaltwaterTaylor14 (Sep 27, 2011)

Starting a fish store is a big dream of mine. I just wanted to say good look and i would like to keep in touch and see how yours is doing and if theirs anyway i could help you.


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## Fisherofmen (Aug 29, 2011)

Live plants in the tanks would be a plus. They are good for the fish and really set the place off. You can also sell the live plants that you keep in the tanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jwest (Nov 15, 2010)

You're soooo lucky! I wish you best of luck and have fun with it!


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## k19smith (Aug 19, 2011)

The only thing if you are not going to have gravel I would paint the bottom of the tanks. 

I've always wondered though in a store with gravel even on a sump I would assume the gravel still needs to be vacuumed?


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*hmm*

i would recomend not going with sumps and just doing an air driven internal filter system for each tank either purchased or DIY.keep the shop hot to save on tank heating.i would also recomend gravel for most of the tanks as this will allow for a greater bioload and plants if you wish.honestly when i did bare bottoms it seemed cleaner but things can crash fast with alot of livestock and it took daily siphoning to look remotely clean.and as far as tank size do a couple racks of the smaller size and a rack of the larger.even if you deceide on larger fishes the smaller tanks can be quarintines.good luck this can be a tough buisness.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Would use sponge filters on all tanks driven by suitable air pump such as Luft pumps with gang valves.
Would use maybe powerheads to increase movement for fishes that enjoy it.
Could plumb all tanks with single automatic drain and fill? With exception of those where water chemistry has been tweaked to suit different species?.


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## migdem (Jul 4, 2008)

What about a corner box filters?

About gravel I think the fish will show more colors so I think I will go for some black gravel and not small gravel so I could clean it more easily.

About lightning should I do 1 white and 1 red or just red to take out more colour?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I might leave enough space above tanks to mount eight foot T8 bulbs(shop lights) to frame of racks built.
Bulbs would in this way, cover several tanks and save you some money as opposed to lighting each tank with it's own light.(less clutter)


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## migdem (Jul 4, 2008)

1077 said:


> I might leave enough space above tanks to mount eight foot T8 bulbs(shop lights) to frame of racks built.
> Bulbs would in this way, cover several tanks and save you some money as opposed to lighting each tank with it's own light.(less clutter)


Thanks ok but what about the colours?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

migdem said:


> Thanks ok but what about the colours?


My fish look better under 8000 K bulbs as opposed to 6000 K bulbs that make everything too yellow looking for me.
Fish could prolly care less what color bulbs I use but plant's seem to do better for me, with the 8000 k bulbs which have more red,blue light spectrum color.
I have some fish that have never expierienced a lighted tank from use of bulbs but instead,receive ambient light from the room or window.


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## migdem (Jul 4, 2008)

I see thank you.

Does someone use a quick cure when stocks come in the shop? so that no ich will outbreaks? If yes what actually do you use?


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I have heard good things about Seachem's Paragaurd.
Have watched employees from Petco acclimate fish received, and much of their procedure is floating the bags for twenty to forty minutes or longer,,and then dumping the bags and fish into the tanks.
They would in my view lose fewer fish if they added some tank water to the bags at five minute interval's and then when bags are near full,, net the fish out and dispose of water and bags.


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## KendraMc (Jul 20, 2011)

QT the fish when you get them. i've seen stores that have big tanks in the back room where they put fish that just came in. it means you have the fish on hand longer, which has more costs, but will also mean healthier fish and thus fewer returns/deaths in your tanks.


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## migdem (Jul 4, 2008)

KendraMc said:


> QT the fish when you get them. i've seen stores that have big tanks in the back room where they put fish that just came in. it means you have the fish on hand longer, which has more costs, but will also mean healthier fish and thus fewer returns/deaths in your tanks.


It is kind of impossible to do that since the store will be small not big enough. Also different fish requires different water parameters.


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*bulbs*

yeah i agree about the kelvin ratings but at the shop and at home i use the 6500 kelvins 4 foot lights as they look good ,give some of the best plant growth, and are the cheapest way to go byjust driving to a hardware store.corner filters,sponge filters, or air lift filters all work well and are cheap.oh and quik cure is a great product to preventatively treat fish.and to treat. half dose the new arivals.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

Use drip acclimation, that way you can set a bunch to acclimate with out having to constantly add water, just set it then an hour later come back and scoop the fish into the tanks.

Just remember by using in tank filters now, you will save money up front, but one of your highest costs in any store is labor, if you think ahead now and spend a little more you can save yourself a ton down the road, from having to bring in other employees to keep up on the maintenance, plus the extra cost of running all the individual heaters and filters. Theres a good reason 90% of retail shops run sump systems on their tanks.

Also keeping the room temp high would work for a breeder but when you are trying to sell to in store customers its best to keep them comfortable so they don't walk out because the environment is too hot.

Also instead of building your own tank setups keep an eye on classifieds and other post sites for people selling the retail setups from closed shops, it will save you a ton of money and might look a bit better(its best if you start this way ahead of time so you have time to collect and find the amount you will need).


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## migdem (Jul 4, 2008)

zof said:


> Use drip acclimation, that way you can set a bunch to acclimate with out having to constantly add water, just set it then an hour later come back and scoop the fish into the tanks.
> 
> Just remember by using in tank filters now, you will save money up front, but one of your highest costs in any store is labor, if you think ahead now and spend a little more you can save yourself a ton down the road, from having to bring in other employees to keep up on the maintenance, plus the extra cost of running all the individual heaters and filters. Theres a good reason 90% of retail shops run sump systems on their tanks.
> 
> ...


I cannot do the classifieds because I have specific size on the aquarium and since I live in a small country it is hard to find second hands the size I want them.


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*filter*

filter maintence isnt any harder than keeping a sump when it comes to the mentioned filter types and i dont know if you noticed but 90% of the fish stores also arent up to par when it comes to livestock.and i find keeping it a few degrees warmer than most has little effect on driving customers out.on acclimation i like the drip method but when i get larger shipments in it is imposible.if you can find small, cheap, stackable,and food safe tuperwares to use for the acclimation its easier.just drill a couple of really small holes in the upper rim of the tupper wares and the water drips in or osmo regulates on its own.i do alot of sensitive inverts such as corals,anemones,and crustaceans and this works great.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

Filter maintenance isn't harder its the water changes and moving filters around when you empty and fill tanks with live stock is all I'm pointing out. And with neglect any system will fail and you will lose live stock, you just have more wiggle room with a sump system since you have more water volume distributed among the tanks. Say you have a tank with only 2 or 3 fish in it for some reason (low stock, aggression, etc.) and you have a tank in the system that is way overstocked (large buy of live bearers that you want to keep all in one tank) then the empty/almost empty tank will help balance your bio load plus the extra water in the sump. Of course if you don't have breeders around that keep healthy stocks then a sump system would not be ideal as you will always be fighting diseases coming from the breeder and affecting other live stock that might not be infected.

I've seen fish stores with both setups, and combination of the setups and both work fine, as long as you get a maintenance routine down and stick with it.

Also just thought of another reason I like sumps, when you take water out of the tank to bag fish the water level in the tanks wont lower as it will be the volume in the sump that is affected.

I just went by my LFS today and they had black gravel in most their tanks as badx pointed out it actually does make it look alot cleaner cause you can't see the fish poop and for ascetics as I was watching some root around in the gravel, made for an interesting watch.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

zof said:


> Use drip acclimation, that way you can set a bunch to acclimate with out having to constantly add water, just set it then an hour later come back and scoop the fish into the tanks.
> 
> Just remember by using in tank filters now, you will save money up front, but one of your highest costs in any store is labor, if you think ahead now and spend a little more you can save yourself a ton down the road, from having to bring in other employees to keep up on the maintenance, plus the extra cost of running all the individual heaters and filters. Theres a good reason 90% of retail shops run sump systems on their tanks.
> 
> ...


 
I like the drip acclimation and use it .This would work well in smaller shops.
Large chain store such as the Petco I mentioned,, receive large boxes (eight or more with twenty or more bags of fish per box. They are not inclined to place the number's of tubs for this method of accclimating, all about the area where tanks are located. Hence, my suggestion of adding some tank water to each bag over a period of time.

Some who ship fishes ship fish in bags with mild medication's, ammonia resins or powder's. antibiotic's etc. 
By dumping two or three bags of fish into one tank as I have watched some folks at P--Co do,,they are adding much more pollutan'ts to tanks where fishes are under stress from shipping and also attempting to adapt (osmoregulate) to water's that may or may not be ideal and prolly very high in total dissolved solids.
Given the small display tanks at these stores, and large number's of fish inhabiting same,,they can turn toxic rather quickly.(bad,foul water)
I would keep fishes at lower temps to slow metabolisims down ,inhibit bacterial pathogen's that thrive in warmer tropical temps,and would feed fish maybe two or three times a week were it my shop but hey,,, that's just me. opinion's vary.


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*ahh*

ahh yes i neglected to mention when doing the method with the tuperwares i use a few apropriate buckets that i have water from the tanks awaiting the livestock.it also helps to know your distributor as some may use medication on transport but most do not.in alot of the salt water fish orders we get do have copper in the sytem they are being kept in and it is of utmost importance to not let the copper into you systems containing invertebrate life.and i must say that almost all of the betta orders come in with a malachite green or methalene med in the water.dont let it in your tanks.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

I'd just drip into the bag they come in, remove some water from the bag, then float and secure the open bag in the lower tank and drip from the higher tank, no need for tubs then. Just need a good way to secure open bags in the lower tanks.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

The shops I buy from usually rely on UGF's and air driven sponge filters, though some do have a few tanks that appear to be on centralized systems. When ever I trade in fish to them they use the typical floating method for acclimating most of their fish. I am pretty sure they use more controlled methods for the more expensive and sensitive fish like FW rays and discus. Live plants are a plus, its really not that difficult to keep the hardy varieties alive under the lighting mentioned above. They are also more inventory that you can sell and provide a place for the fish to hide. 

I personally have a disliking towards bare shop tanks. I know its easier to maintain and everything. However it can be a lot more stressful for the fish. Usually this isn't a problem but in a store setting you have fish that have been shipped in and are already stressed. You acclimate them to new water then introduce them to a new tank that is bare. Eventually once they can be sold they have to deal with the stress of escaping a net and having their tankmates caught. Stressed fish will want to hide, if they feel vulnerable then they are going to stay stressed longer. The longer they stay stressed the more likely you are to wined up with sick fish. On top of that stressed fish show poor color. Its much easier to sell colorful fish that feel good about themselves then pale fish that just want to hide. 

Feed your fish minimally. This is something one shop I use does maybe a little too much lol. Hungry fish are more likely to come to the front of the glass when a customer approaches. In one shop most of their fish swarm the front glass if you get within 5 feet of the tanks. They generally have very healthy and colorful stock, just really hungry. Its also probably why the tanks are so clean;-). 

All the rack system I have seen tend to be wood this may be cheaper then the metal. As far as maintaining temperature you can either heat the tanks individually or heat the entire room. Which one depends on how many gallons you are running in how many square feet. Keeping the entire building at 76*F is cost effective for some shops if they have a lot of tanks. One of the stores I use does heat the building, they have 8,000 gallons in a pretty small building. They focus a lot more on livestock though. Its like a maze in the building with about every wall being a fish tank. It does get warm being in such a building, but its not unbearable. In summer its hardly noticeable, but in winter it can get kinda uncomfortable. This is Minnesota though, I have to dress for the 20*F outside too:roll:.


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## migdem (Jul 4, 2008)

what is the best way to heat the room with 1 heater and consuming less energy? maybe aircondition set at around 24 *C?


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## badxgillen (Aug 20, 2010)

*AC*

yes the AC will be key to removeing humidity wich can get excesive.


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## migdem (Jul 4, 2008)

but is a heater less consuming than an AC?


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