# Spotted african leaf fish



## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

So I just got a spotted african leaf fish from petsmart.. A smaill one about 1 or 2 inches. So i put him in my biocube 14 gallons.. So far the only inhabitants in my tank are a clown pleco, the spotted african leaf fish and a female guppy which i will move later on today.. Do u thnk adding a oto catfish a good fit.. Also my water perameters are ph 7.6 amonia and nitrate and nitrite levels are all good.. temp is at 80-82.. 

thank you
jep


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

First, as I see you recently joined, welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.

You have some trouble looming with the leaf fish, but first I'll comment on the oto. Otocinclus are shoaling fish, meaning they live in groups. Shoaling fish need the group for security and "comfort" but they also frequently have social/behavioural interactions among group members that are important for the health of the fish. A lone oto might make it, but the experience of the majority is that a single oto will waste away, literally. These fish are all wild caught and experience severe stress in capture and transport, leaving them in a weakened state. This makes them even more susceptible to inappropriate housing. You can read more in our profile of this fish. Profiles are under the second tab from the left in the blue bar at the top of the page, and you can click on the fish name in posts when it is shaded, example Oto Catfish.

The leaf fish also is in our profiles under its common name Leopard Ctenopoma. As noted therein, this fish has some unique needs and behaviours. It also needs a much larger tank in order to grow properly. I won't get into all that, as the Profiler covers it and I would only be repeating. Please have a read of the profile.

Byron.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

Thank you so much byron.. the input u gave me really helped out.. So i was wondering is my clown pleco ok for my 14 gallon tank. I heard they grow to about 3-4 inches... but i was wondering what u can suggest for a unique freshwater fish for my tank.. i got the leaf fish thnking it would be ok since i read that it gets up to 4 or 4.5 in.. but i didnt thnk it would grow to 6 or more...

thank you so much
jep


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

A small school of celestial pearl danios might work... Or a CPO.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

I didnt knw CPO's are that small.. Do u knw if they are difficult to take care of or are they like similiar crayfish?

jep


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I personally would not have a 4-inch pleco in so small a tank, but more for the visual than anything else. Pleco are different behaviour fish again, and if the water is well maintained it would (or should) not have health issues. But it may look, or it would to me, out of place in a relatively small space.

I'm hoping you can return the leaf fish, that would be wise and best for the fish, hoping someone who understands its needs can acquire it. But we can't stop stores from selling inappropriate fish.

I like to see small fish in "small" tanks and usually recommend such because having small fish means you can have more fish, and that means more interest in the aquarium, which will be more enjoyable and less likely to cause one to give up out of despair. There are many "dwarf" type species available, though sometimes one has to look for them. Many of these will be wild caught, which means paying close attention to their needs in water parameters (hardness, pH, temp). 

Those fish profiles we have include many of the dwarf types, under the Cyprinids and Characins particularly, but there are also Endlers in the livebearer group that are not yet in the profiles. If you can tell us your tap water parameters (hardness and pH) this would allow us to suggest some options.

Byron.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

Well i spoke to the store they said the fish is returnable... So my water perameters are ph level 7.8, ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0.25, nitrate 5.0... My Tank is well planted and im using sand as my substrate


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jeppun21 said:


> Well i spoke to the store they said the fish is returnable... So my water perameters are ph level 7.8, ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0.25, nitrate 5.0... My Tank is well planted and im using sand as my substrate


Any idea on the hardness of the tap water? This is important because hardness actually has more of a direct impact on some fish than a steady pH, and also the hardness serves as a "buffer" to maintain a stable pH. You can find this out from your water supply folks, many now have a website with water data posted.

The ammonia and nitrite bother me, they should be zero. Which test kit are you using (some are more reliable than others)?


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

Im yousing the API master test kit for freshwater aquariums.. i thnk my fish tank hardiness level is 8 degrees...


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

sorry i have a lot of questions.. im fairly new to freshwater aquariums thats why.. still learning and learning


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Questions are never a problem. We all ask them or we wouldn't learn anything.

If your water is 8 dGH, that's fine. Your pH is high though, basic, so fish should be those that either prefer this (livebearers, several others) or can manage (many tetra for instance are tank raised and can adapt fairly well). This is all indicated in our profiles as applicable.

On the ammonia and nitrite [the API kit is good], I would watch this. Do you have live plants? They are great at controlling ammonia and nitrite.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

lol Thanks bryon for all your help... Yeah, i do have plants in my tank. i have some drift wood with java fern, i have some moneywort plants, some amazon sword.. and i've been giving them about 5 hours of light everyday and also giving the API growth for plants medication to enhance its growth.. So livebearers and tetras.. Do u knw of any exotic types cause i was looking for new fish like not the usuall ones u keep in the stores.. So basically with the leaf fish the only way i can keep it is if i upgrade my tank to a 29 gallon or more.. correct...

thank you so much for all the advice
jep


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jeppun21 said:


> lol Thanks bryon for all your help... Yeah, i do have plants in my tank. i have some drift wood with java fern, i have some moneywort plants, some amazon sword.. and i've been giving them about 5 hours of light everyday and also giving the API growth for plants medication to enhance its growth.. So livebearers and tetras.. Do u knw of any exotic types cause i was looking for new fish like not the usuall ones u keep in the stores.. So basically with the leaf fish the only way i can keep it is if i upgrade my tank to a 29 gallon or more.. correct...
> 
> thank you so much for all the advice
> jep


The leaf fish is rather special. Even a 29g is not going to suit an 8-inch fish. Profile suggests 55g (4-foot tank).

On suitable fish, check the profiles under cyprinids especially, some prefer basic water, some are adaptable. There are several smaller species in this group. Redchigh mentioned Celestial Pearl Danio, there is also the emerald Dwarf Rasbora, Scarlet Badis, others. I just added the endlers Livebearer, another small colourful fish.

I'm wondering about those ammonia and nitrite numbers, with live plants this is almost impossible.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

So what is a suitable ammonia and nitrate level for plants? Interesting.. I got to look into theose types of fish and probably in the future upgrade to a larger tank after i master a smaller tank..

Thanks bryon for all ur input
Jep


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jeppun21 said:


> So what is a suitable ammonia and nitrate level for plants? Interesting.. I got to look into theose types of fish and probably in the future upgrade to a larger tank after i master a smaller tank..
> 
> Thanks bryon for all ur input
> Jep


Once a tank is cycled, ammonia and nitrite should always be zero with our test kits. Live plants assimilate a lot of ammonia/ammonium so with plants and provided the fish are not overstocked or some disaster doesn't occur, ammonia (and nitrite) will not be problematic.

Nitrate is different, you may have zero up to 20 ppm. Plants again keep this lower, and the lower the better. Although not as toxic as the other two, nitrates should be minimal.

Have you checked your tap water for all three? Any or all can be present, it is good to know this.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

So I checked the tap water levels.. Im using the API MASTER Freswater test kit.

Ph:7.6
High Ph:7.8
Ammonia:0.0
Nitrate:0.0
Nitrite:0.0

Water Hardiness level:8

So This is them levels for my fish tank with my plants, clown pleco

Ph:7.6
High Ph:7.8
Ammonia:.25
Nitrate:0.0
Nitrite:0.0

THis is for my fish tank that has 4 neon tetras and 2 guppys

Ph:7.6
High Ph:7.8
Ammonia:.25
Nitrate:5.0
Nitrite:0.0


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jeppun21 said:


> So I checked the tap water levels.. Im using the API MASTER Freswater test kit.
> 
> Ph:7.6
> High Ph:7.8
> ...


The only thing here is the ammonia in the two tanks. With plants I would not expect to see ammonia testing when there is none in the source water.

How often and how much volume are the water changes?


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

Well i change the water every 2 to 3 weeks...Before i tested the water its been 2 weeks running to 3 weeks since i did a water change. After i tested the water i actually did a 25 percent water change after getting these results and waited till to day to check it and the ammonia level went back to 0.0


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jeppun21 said:


> Well i change the water every 2 to 3 weeks...Before i tested the water its been 2 weeks running to 3 weeks since i did a water change. After i tested the water i actually did a 25 percent water change after getting these results and waited till to day to check it and the ammonia level went back to 0.0


Water changes should be more regular, every week at the least. A change of 30% to 50% depending upon fish load. I do 50% in all my tanks every week, but they are well stocked. Your ammonia issues should disappear.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

So with these regular water changes would they keep the levels in my tank low and also keep my plants healthy? Was wondering since i have a heavly planted tank do i need to get a co2 machine or something like that? THank you very much for all ur advise 

jep


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jeppun21 said:


> So with these regular water changes would they keep the levels in my tank low and also keep my plants healthy? Was wondering since i have a heavly planted tank do i need to get a co2 machine or something like that? THank you very much for all ur advise
> 
> jep


The majority of aquarium plants will grow very well without added CO2. Growth is usually slower in some species, but healthy. There are a few species that tend to need additional CO2, but these are few. I have never bothered with CO2 as I cannot see the need for that extra expense. It means more lighting for one thing, because once you start increasing a particular component of the "balance" you have to increase everything to keep a balance. That is not only expensive (electricity is not cheap), it is setting a higher level of balance which means more can go wrong. I prefer to rely on nature and intervene as little as possible.

As I mentioned previously, ammonia and nitrite should never be above zero in an established tank; if they are, and if this is caused by something in the tank and not externally as in the source water, something is wrong. If you do a weekly partial water change of at least 30% you shouldn't ever see ammonia or nitrite. And with healthy plants, nitrate will be very low, below 10ppm. This is healthy.

Byron.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

Thank you very much byron.. I thnk i'll do exactly like you said... do about a 30 percent water change every week and i'll moniter the levels after i do them Can i have ur thoughts on something... i have a 10 gallon tank with 4 neon tetras and 2 guppys... was wondering should i upgrade to a 20 or go higher.. do u thnk the bigger the tank the more maintinance.. or less

thank you jep


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

jeppun21 said:


> Thank you very much byron.. I thnk i'll do exactly like you said... do about a 30 percent water change every week and i'll moniter the levels after i do them Can i have ur thoughts on something... i have a 10 gallon tank with 4 neon tetras and 2 guppys... was wondering should i upgrade to a 20 or go higher.. do u thnk the bigger the tank the more maintinance.. or less
> 
> thank you jep


Always take water tests prior to a water change. This will tell you the state of the water generally. You can test some things (like ammonia) following as well, to see if it has improved if it was above zero before. But always test prior to the change.

If you can afford a 20g, definitely get it. And a 20g long is better than the normal 20g high. A longer tank provides more surface area, which means more space to swim, more substrate area and more water surface area to allow more exchange of gasses which is healthier. Also, with live plants, the light will have a shorter distance to reach the lower plants so they will benefit.

And once you get the 20g L, I would get more neons (assuming you like and want this fish). A group of 6 is minimum, but more is better. i like odd numbers for no scientific reason, just aesthetics, so i would have 7 minimum, but 7, 8 or 9 in a 20g long would be fine. And you have space for substrate fish, maybe a group of corys (5 in a 20g long)? Or a whiptail catfish for something unique?

As for maintenance, whatever the tank, a weekly water change of 30-50% is needed. This only takes minutes for a 10g or 20g. Also, the more water volume, the less chance of trouble as it is more stable. This affects may areas, not just biological, but temperature, pH, etc.


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## Skooter (Apr 30, 2011)

Just a suggestion.. On your water changes I would start with 30% and if the ammonia continues then go to 50%. 50 % allows your tank to be more susceptible to stress and bio shock because as you drain away and I assume cleaning up your substrate at the same time you are creating a unstable water condition until you can pump in that new water and get the filters to do their work. When I say unstable water condition I am stating that your 50% that is left is concentrated and stirred up to were the fish are taking in higher levels than what your water test kit shows. If you can get in the habit of doing water changes every week and keep the feeding to the 3 minute rule then 50% should never be needed.


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## jeppun21 (May 2, 2011)

THank you byron and skooter..

Welll i'll be starting my weekly water changes starting every thursday.. So when i do the water changes should i add some aquarium salt or stress coat... so my fish wont get stressed for doing a weekly water change or is it fine if i dont add it in... 

thanks
jep


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