# Whats going on ????



## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

I have had 3 or 4 fish die in the last week. A Cardinal fish that never did eat as well as the other fish from day one so when it died I assumed it was because it wasnt eating enough, A Coral Beauty which was the same as the Cardinal and didnt eat right then a Yellow Tang which ate very well, possibly the fourth was a Bi-colored Blennie I dont know for sure if its dead but I hadnt seen uit in two days.
Water all looks pretty good except for High Calcium and low Alkalinity.
Any Ideas????
Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
PH 8.4
Calcium 540+
Alkalinity 3.5
Spacific Gravity 1.024


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

CA to high.
If you can't get fish to eat when you get them home, they slowly starve. This takes time, and it really sucks watching. You can tell, watch them and look at their cheeks besides the mouth, if you see these sunken then its a bad sign. Will wait on news of the Blenny.


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Yeah that is a real bummer about your fish. I had trouble with my angel when I brought him home I put him right in my display and he wasn't eating well. Took putting him in a qt on his own, even though I put him in there for different reasons, to get him to start chowing food. Even though he was eating it wasn't much in amongst my other fish.
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Still haven't seen the Blennie and now a dead Clownfish
The last 5 days i have been getting this algae growth also.
My whole Tank seems to be going.
What do I do????


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

New readings

Amonia between .25 and .50
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
PH 8.2
Calcium 500
Alkalinity 4 meq/L
Spacific Gravity 1.024


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

How old is your tank? Something is going on to cause that ammonia spike.
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

The Tank is about 4 months old.
I figure the amonia spike is from the dead fish.
I never found one of them


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

That was my thinking too. With your tank being 4 months while new out should be rather stable. Do you have any other fish in there? Have you added anything new lately to your tank, either livestock or equipment?
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Three fish left. 1 clown 1 Cardinal and 1 filefish.
the newest was the coral beauty that i mentioned in the earlier post that died first.
I added the Skimmer arround the sane time(three weeks ago).
I do not have a QT tank.would i have to cycle one?
I have a small tank I can use but would I need to put rock and sand and let it cycle?


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

For a qt you just want some easy to clean plastic decorations for cover, a heater, filter of some sort and if you have one a light but that's not necessary. When I set mine up I didn't cycle it. I had an angel in there and at first I had water quality issues due to it only being a 10 gallon. I solved this by doing a 2 gallon a day water change. Before you net anyone out though I would observe their behavior. Are the remaining fish eating and acting happy? Have you noticed any aggression? Also what size tank do you have?
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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Only thing I can think of is maybe with all those fish to compete with the less aggressive fish aren't getting food. Depending on what you're feeding them could also be malnutrition. Could also be that if you added all of them without time to fully settle in and get established they could be overstressed. Those are just my thoughts on it, I'm no expert.
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

evanlundberg4 said:


> For a qt you just want some easy to clean plastic decorations for cover, a heater, filter of some sort and if you have one a light but that's not necessary. When I set mine up I didn't cycle it. I had an angel in there and at first I had water quality issues due to it only being a 10 gallon. I solved this by doing a 2 gallon a day water change. Before you net anyone out though I would observe their behavior. Are the remaining fish eating and acting happy? Have you noticed any aggression? Also what size tank do you have?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 The remaining fish seem to be fine and I will go buy a 20 gal setup from wally world


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Well if they're fine I wouldn't mess with them. Good idea to have a qt ready though. My thoughts on a qt are that not only is it good for sick or diseased fish but singled out you can really get them eating well without the competition of other fish. Maybe really watch them closely at feeding time for anyone not getting enough or any bullying. I have a royal Gramma that is downright nasty and he bullied one of my green chromis to death, and actually would chase my flame angel at feeding time. What foods are you feeding them? 
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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Just a heads up, it takes quite some time to starve out a fish. Its also not a pretty sight to behold.


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Well I set up a QT tank and waiting for the temp to get right.
Im feeding frozen Marine Cuisine. recomended by LFS
I set up a 20 gal with hob filter kit and put a 650GPH powerhead
What do you think?


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Just a heads up, it takes quite some time to starve out a fish. Its also not a pretty sight to behold.


 I dont think they starved to death...I think the LFS sold me a sick Coral Beauty and it contaminated the tank. I am a beginner but from talking to several people on a couple sites that sound like the most likely thing


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

klgj0102 said:


> Well I set up a QT tank and waiting for the temp to get right.
> Im feeding frozen Marine Cuisine. recomended by LFS
> I set up a 20 gal with hob filter kit and put a 650GPH powerhead
> What do you think?


 Is it cycled?


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Is it cycled?


No I just set it up today.
No live rock or live sand just some gravel and fake plants.
Does it still need to cycle?


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Yup, gotta cycle it. If you don't, the cycle of Ammonia will kill the stressed out fish. Use a couple pieces of LR or Sand from your DT, that will boost your bacteria fast in there.


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Yup, gotta cycle it. If you don't, the cycle of Ammonia will kill the stressed out fish. Use a couple pieces of LR or Sand from your DT, that will boost your bacteria fast in there.


Will it still need 4+ weeks to cycle?


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Depends on how much LR and LS you put in there. But, no it won't take 4 weeks to cycle using your DT stuff.


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Depends on how much LR and LS you put in there. But, no it won't take 4 weeks to cycle using your DT stuff.


Using the LR and LS from my Main tank won't bring this problem to the QT tank?
OH by the way I lost another Clown last night. Only one small file fish and one Cardinal left so I'm affraid they are doomed also. MAKES ME SICK TO MY STOMACH
Will this problem kill the corals that I have?


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Gee man that sucks big time. Normally its better to just leave 'em but at this point looks like there going to die in there. Is the water cloudy in there. If so that could be indicative of a bacterial issue. I'm not sure what I'd do at this point. They're probably already pretty stressed but I would almost think battling your qt water quality is as likely to save them as keeping them in the display. I'm not sure if there are viruses fish can get that will kill them or any crazy weird diseases. Maybe totally go through everything in the tank for water parameters, temp, anything like that that could be out of place. Sorry you're losing fish. Wish I could help more.
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

The water is very clear and all paramiters are ok except for high calcium and starting Amonia which I assume is from the dead fish


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

If the fish are just dying, its usually just kept to them. 
As far as moving the disease to the DT, yes it will, unless you have to QT in Hypo or have it medicated to start with. If using medication I would not use your DT or LS to seed the QT.
Are there any visible signs of anything wrong on the fish? You would not belive how many fish I have lost, just because of nothing. They dont' acclimate, it happens. I've had Clowns Copper Butterflys go 2-3 weeks, then just die. And have lost no other fish. But I did not add all my fish at once.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

I'd be more worried about your ALk and CA killing your corals, not what the fish possibly had.


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

I added first time 1 clown 1 Blennie and 1 cardinal then two weeks later I added a nother clown, another cardinal, a filefish and a yellow tang, two weeks later a butterfly that I don't remember what kind and it dies about 6 days later so I added the coral beauty that lived about a week and a half but wouldn't eat the food the other fish were eating. It pecked at the rocks but wouldn't eat the food I put in. About 2 days after it died a cardinal dies the a couple days the tang dies and the Blennie is missing. Next day a clown dies. All the fish except for the coral beauty were very active and eating fine the night before I found them dead the next morning.
Does this make any sense to you? I assume that the coral beauty was sick and contaminated tha tank but at the same time when I put it in there it was very active and looked like it was trying to find something to eat by pecking at the rocks. IDK! What do you get from this info?
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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

This is just a thought but couldn't the alkalinity being off cause pH swings? Seems like an awful lot of fish within a short period to try and all get settled in. Could just be like reef said that they didn't adjust. How big is your tank?
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

75 gal and Alkalininty is 4 meq/L the kit says that is good. What should it be?
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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Well you aren't really over stocked for that size tank. I don't think I would put more in there than that though. Oh I thought you meant it was 4 dkh. Nvm then that seems good. Honestly man I'm at a loss on this one. I've flipped through many a thread of people just losing seemingly healthy fish randomly. You unfortunately could be experiencing one of these crazy happenings. These other guys on here are really knowledgeable so if anyone can solve it they can. Wish I could be of more help. I hate to say it but maybe wait and see if any more die and if they do move what's left to the qt.
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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Supposed to be beween 8-12.


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Supposed to be beween 8-12.


What? Alkalinity?
If so what brings this up?
Also the calcium in the new tank is 520. I have oceanic salt and it says more calciumon the jug.
I also have Kent marine salt and it says high calcium also


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

I dont know what to do. With all that has been said what is the best ciurse of action for me to take????


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Are you using RO/DI water? I've never heard of a salt mix reading out at 520 out of the package.
You can bring up your ALK using a ALK Buffer or Baking Soda.
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Are you using RO/DI water? I've never heard of a salt mix reading out at 520 out of the package.
> You can bring up your ALK using a ALK Buffer or Baking Soda.
> Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog


 RO not DI right now but the last water was RO/DI


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Best to find out what your RO CA was reading out at. Sounds as if it was high.


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

OK I just noticed that the one Clown that is still alive has some whitespots/marks on it and the Cardinal looks like one of his fins is kinda freyed or shrinking.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Ok. I didn't think it was the water, was just making observations there, trying to get it jsut right so they werent' stressed out. White Spots? Or marks, there is a big difference in the Diseases with the Clowns.
Aquarium-Related Articles
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

But, you could FW dip the fish just in case, this should help in both cases. Marine Ich or Brooklynella


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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Ok. I didn't think it was the water, was just making observations there, trying to get it jsut right so they werent' stressed out. White Spots? Or marks, there is a big difference in the Diseases with the Clowns.
> Aquarium-Related Articles
> Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
> 
> But, you could FW dip the fish just in case, this should help in both cases. Marine Ich or Brooklynella


I remember now the Coral Beauty was the first to go and it had white spots also.
here is a pic of the clown. The cardinal had one side fin shorter than the other and they both look frayed


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Marine Ich. The fins get tattered from them swiping on everything. FW dip and Hypo in QT will rid the fish of this disease. But you can't put them back into the DT for 6 weeks.


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Yeah no doubt man he has it bad. If I'm not mistaken you're going to want to get all your fish out of the dt for 6 weeks so the ich dies off in there. If you do dip your fish try to match water temp and use baking soda to raise the pH to match also. I did one for my angel in a 5 gallon bucket that way and used an air stone to get extra oxygen in the water. 3 to 5 min. Clownfish are tough guys though so you might have good luck.
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

The one in the picture was dead this morning so all I have left is a cardinal and a filefish.
What about corals and CUC? and a cleaner shrimp?


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Ugh dude this is terrible I'm sorry. Won't hurt the cuc shrimps and corals. You have to act fast now. I would dip them in fresh water and then put them in the qt. Check the water parameters in the qt to see where its at in the cycle. If its cycled get them in there. After you get them in the qt you're going to want to leave them there for 6 weeks. If you dip them in fresh water you may not have to do a hypo salinity treatment but that will depend on if the parasites come off the fish in the dip. You do hypo salinity by lowering the salt content of the water to 1.009. Kills the parasites but the fish can handle it.
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

evanlundberg4 said:


> Ugh dude this is terrible I'm sorry. Won't hurt the cuc shrimps and corals. You have to act fast now. I would dip them in fresh water and then put them in the qt. Check the water parameters in the qt to see where its at in the cycle. If its cycled get them in there. After you get them in the qt you're going to want to leave them there for 6 weeks. If you dip them in fresh water you may not have to do a hypo salinity treatment but that will depend on if the parasites come off the fish in the dip. You do hypo salinity by lowering the salt content of the water to 1.009. Kills the parasites but the fish can handle it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tank is not cycled yet! Some one told me that if I remove all gravel and rocks and start with just new saltwater and plastic plants and pvc that it would work immediately as a QT without the cycle.
What do you think?


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Yeah I would do that for sure. First there's less to clean and less places for the parasites to hide. Bottom line is you're going to have a cycle in there but if you're only cycling the filters it shouldn't be bad. I had a couple plastic things for cover a heater a small power head power filter and a hood for mine. I was successful in getting a sick fish through that cycle by doing 2 small water changes a day and that kept the water quality up and the fish healthy. You have to do the water changes though because if you don't like reef said you're going to kill the fish. I did 2 2.5 gallon changes a day morning and evening in my 10 gallon. Worked for me but I also devoted a lot of time. My opinion is this works but that's just me. Once the bacteria stay growing and you get a biological filter in there you'll be good. Just monitor your water daily and do water changes.
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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

klgj0102 said:


> Tank is not cycled yet! Some one told me that if I remove all gravel and rocks and start with just new saltwater and plastic plants and pvc that it would work immediately as a QT without the cycle.
> What do you think?












Already advised against this. That QT will cycle. How is it that your friend thinks it won't? Once the fish is in there, isn't the bacteria going to start growing from its waste? Won't Ammonia start to bloom? If the ICH doesn't kill the fish at this point, having them in an uncycled tank will. But, this is JMO.


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

evanlundberg4 said:


> Yeah I would do that for sure. First there's less to clean and less places for the parasites to hide. Bottom line is you're going to have a cycle in there but if you're only cycling the filters it shouldn't be bad. I had a couple plastic things for cover a heater a small power head power filter and a hood for mine. I was successful in getting a sick fish through that cycle by doing 2 small water changes a day and that kept the water quality up and the fish healthy. You have to do the water changes though because if you don't like reef said you're going to kill the fish. I did 2 2.5 gallon changes a day morning and evening in my 10 gallon. Worked for me but I also devoted a lot of time. My opinion is this works but that's just me. Once the bacteria stay growing and you get a biological filter in there you'll be good. Just monitor your water daily and do water changes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fish is already stressed out and not at 100% because of the Parasite....


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## evanlundberg4 (Aug 27, 2012)

Hey I get it man. All I'm saying is I just did this and it worked. I suppose I'm more reckless. Bottom line is reef knows more and its prob right. Not trying to step on your toes here. Good luck worth your fish.
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## klgj0102 (Sep 12, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Already advised against this. That QT will cycle. How is it that your friend thinks it won't? Once the fish is in there, isn't the bacteria going to start growing from its waste? Won't Ammonia start to bloom? If the ICH doesn't kill the fish at this point, having them in an uncycled tank will. But, this is JMO.


 So what should i do?
I cant medicate in the DT or it will kill the corals right?


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

Correct, you can't medicate the DT. FW dip the fish. You will have to watch them afterwards, because the Parasite is in the DT and will remain up to 6 weeks, at that time hopefully your fish are healthy enough to fight it off themselves, or not even come down with it.


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