# A few questions about starting a new fowlr



## Sivitri (Mar 10, 2009)

I have read though a lot of posts and done a lot of research about starting a new fowlr but I am still a little confused on a few things. For starters I have a 46g tank, but I have not bought anything else for it yet, although I do plan on using an aragonite sand bed and a couple of koralia power heads.

This is my biggest question. From what I have gathered from most of my research is that I need a good protein skimmer, but I really cant find a great source of information about whether I need a filter in addition to the protein skimmer. The skimmer I was looking at was the Reef Octopus HB 300 Dual 
Hang on Back Protein Skimmer. Would this be adequate?

If I did need a filter would a hang on the back type filter (aquaclear, biowheel, etc) used only as a carbon filter work?

Thanks
Roger


----------



## B Castle (Mar 5, 2009)

I have asked the same questions, and have basically been told this: If you are going to use a PF, make it ONLY carbon. If you have enough flow and live rock, along with a good skimmer, you don't need it. If you insist on using it for "polished" water, it's OK, though most don't use one at all.

Anyone, feel free to correct me if I've got it wrong!


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

You do not want a power filter or biological filter. In fact, the use of biological filtration or mechanical filtration will actually lessen water quality.

The only use of a power filter should be limited to water movement and activated carbon. Even then, you would be best to drop a bag of activated carbon into the power filter, rather than have the water forced threw a filter pad that contains carbon.

I think you are off to a nice start. Your skimmer choice is good. I would encourage you to look at e-bay before spending the money. This model has been made by many different companies and can be found for well under $100 used. 

For the record, if you look at my 58 bowfront build, you will see that I am using the same skimmer. Mine is made by CPR, however. http://www.fishforum.com/saltwater-fish-pictures-videos/pasfurs-58-bowfront-build-21969/#post178995


----------



## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

welcome to the forum. what fish do you plan on keeping?


----------



## Sivitri (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanks for the help!

Right now I have a 12g with a few pieces of lr, a pair of ocellaris clowns and a zebra barred dartfish. In my new tank I plan to do mostly peaceful species. I want to start out with a couple blue reef chromis, a royal gramma, and if all goes well a gold stripe maroon clown. Other than those I will wait and see what my lfs has in stock when I go.


----------



## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

that already arises issue. 
its best to figure out stocking plans now then stock and have to work around that. for one, certain species wont mix. another issue is that certain fish should be added before others to avoid issues. 

as far as FOWLR tanks go a 46 gallon def. leaves out any large fish. the ones mentioned should be fine however if you plan on moving the oc clowns over there will most likely be issue with the maroon. 

are you planning a sump for this tank?


----------



## Sivitri (Mar 10, 2009)

I wasn't planning on moving the oc clowns to the 46 because I had an out break of ich in the 12g and I don't want to transfer any of that to the new tank.

I do want to do a sump for the 46, but I am still debating if I can afford to do that or not. But I am definitely leaning towards it. The only thing I am afraid of with a sump is a possible overflow if I ever have a power outage. I read SKAustins "Understanding Sumps" and I see that you can put a syphon break in the return line, but I don't understand how that works.

I haven't put much thought into the fish I want yet because I am still only in the research and planning stage of the tank. I have yet to purchase any of the supplies and the only thing I have right now is the tank. And that is only because I got that for free from the store I work for.


----------



## Mike420 (Mar 13, 2009)

When it comes to saltwater the rule of thumb is more water flow the better. On my tank I have hooked up a Fluval 404, Aquaclear 110 Filter, 2 powerheads, AA UV Sterilizer and a Protein Skimmer. All is running and has been for a long time now. I have many fish in the tank just look at my tank section and it'll give you an idea of what you may want or need. Have fun in your saltwater creation.


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Sivitri said:


> The only thing I am afraid of with a sump is a possible overflow if I ever have a power outage. I read SKAustins "Understanding Sumps" and I see that you can put a syphon break in the return line, but I don't understand how that works.


I always find the phrase "i don't understand how that works" to be very funny. I personally have no understanding of how my computer works, but i use one very effectively. ;-)

Bottom line, just follow the instructions on your overflow design and everything will be fine. After everything is installed, turn the power off. You will see first hand how the syphon break works and will understand that sumps are much less likely to leak than HOB skimmers and filters.


----------



## Sivitri (Mar 10, 2009)

Alright, I'm convinced. Sump it is. 

Now I think I have decided on my equipment, let me know how this sounds.

The tank is a 46 bow front dimensions are 36"L x 12"w x 21"h
K4 power head
Protein Skimmer- AquaC Urchin with Maxi-Jet 1200 & Drain Fitting In-Sump 
mag 9.5 return pump
lighting - 1 36" 10k and 1 36" actinic
in sump refugium
5" sand bed
70lbs (about) live rock

Did I forget anything?


Do you think that a 20L would be a suitable size sump for a this? I know bigger is better, but I am trying to keep the prices reasonable (haha).

Thanks 
Roger


----------



## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

i use a K4 in my reef. Two K2s would be fine, but if you feel the need two K3s. A 20L will be just fine for a sump, a bigger one doesnt have to be much more expensive. you can find a used tank on www.craigslist.com in your area for pretty cheap. feel free to check this thread out http://www.fishforum.com/saltwater-...fish2fishs-bowfront-salt-tank-progress-17236/ its a reef but its a 46 bow


----------



## Sivitri (Mar 10, 2009)

I have actually taken most of the equipment from your tanks profile already. :-D

I forgot to ask what is a good overflow box to buy? The tank is tempered so no chance of drilling.


----------



## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

you could go with a mag 7 and one of these
Continuous Siphon Overflow - CS90 - 1 in. bulkhead - 600 gph | Wet/Dry Aquarium Filters | Filters | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
and if you go with the enclosed style your going to also want 
Aqua Lifter Dosing Pump | Dosing Equipment | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
the overflow is rated 600gph, the mag 7 is 700. the pump will have some head loss (gallons lost due to pumping up to the tank) and you can also " T " off the return line and add a ball valve that returns water to a section of the sump. this is so you can fine tune the water you pump up.
this is just an idea.
there is also a U-Tube style overflow which i hear is easier to clean.
the back wall of the tank prob. isnt tempered (unless you have contacted the manufacturer) so you could get bulkheads or a drilling kit and go that route. i just did that on my new tank and i dont think ill ever go a different route from now on. i used www.glass-holes.com and am very happy with their product. just another option. before doing any drilling though, see if you can contact the tank company and verify if its tempered or not.


----------



## Sivitri (Mar 10, 2009)

You were right the back is not tempered. I definitely want to drill the tank as I think this will be much easier to maintain than the overflow. 

Because I could not find this in any searches I did, and I ended up calling petsmart to find this out:
Topfin tanks are only tempered on the bottom pane, the sides are not tempered.

What size bulkhead do you think would suit this tank? 3/4" or 1"? Will this change the size of the pump?


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Will your sump sit under the stand? If so, i don't think you can fit a 20 long. If not, then a 20 long should be plenty for your tank.

I'm curious about the AquaC Urchin skimmer. They make some pretty outlandish claims on their web site, and the design of the skimmer looks no different than most. Has anyone seen this skimmer in action?


----------



## Sivitri (Mar 10, 2009)

I didn't get a stand with the tank so I can make a stand to house the 20L. 

I have seen a lot of recommendations for this skimmer so I thought I would give it a try. Would you recommend a different skimmer?


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I have never seen the AquaC in action, so I don't want to pass judgement. However, I have a lot of experience with protein skimmers and I see nothing about the design that makes me think it is as efficient as it claims to be. The thing is, the skimmer is painted black, so I have no idea what it looks like on the inside, which makes a world of difference.

The web site claims the AquaC is more efficient than the Red Sea Berlin, which I find difficult to imagine. I need to hear from someone who has actually used the AquaC or seen it up close.


----------



## Sivitri (Mar 10, 2009)

What size bulkhead do you think would suit this tank? 3/4" or 1"? Will this change the size of the pump?

Also, do I need to have the protein skimmer when I first start up the tank? Or can I let it cycle and add the skimmer just before I add the first fish?


----------



## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

You will get differing opinions on when to start the skimmer. Personally, I have always turned the skimmer on from day one, and I have never had any indication that the cycle was shortened as a result. I believe in removing organic waste and reducing impurities as early as possible, and I suspectl this helps to reduce the likelihood of future diatom and cyno outbreaks. 

That being said, I think this issue is near the bottom of the list of important topics. Turn the skimmer on immediately, or turn it on after 3 weeks, it probably has little long term impact.


----------



## Cody (Dec 22, 2007)

Personally, I didn't add mine until my cycle was done and I had a CUC in there. 

But as Pasfur said, it probably makes no difference.


----------

