# Red Tailed Shark vs. Angelfish



## mileshs95 (Sep 24, 2011)

Hello, my name is miles and i am new to the forum. it seems that my red tailed shark and blue gourami are bullying my angelfish. they are all relatively new fish and are juvenile. i was under the impression that semi agressive fish are all supposed to get along. is it possible that they will kill my angelfish? The RTBS usually just chases the angel out of his territory but the gourami actually took a nip at the angel and i am worried. any advice would be appreciated. i have another 10g tank that maybe i could put the angel in until it is big enough to defend itself? i have 2 black skirt tetras and 2 ghost catfish in the 10g. thanks!


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## jennesque (May 11, 2011)

I would suggest clicking on the shaded name of the red shark for some info about those fish. I found them to be pretty evil.. 

Compatibility/Temperament: Not a general community fish especially for beginners. Very aggressive with its own species (it probably lived in solitude except when breeding) and as it matures is often aggressive with other fish especially those resembling it and those with vertical stripes. Should be kept solitary (one fish per tank) with carefully-selected tankmates like the larger barbs and rasbora. Bottom fish (loaches and most catfish) should not be included with this species.
Read more: Red Tailed Shark (Epalzeorhynchos bicolor ) Profile
​


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## mileshs95 (Sep 24, 2011)

jennesque said:


> I would suggest clicking on the shaded name of the red shark for some info about those fish. I found them to be pretty evil..
> 
> Compatibility/Temperament: Not a general community fish especially for beginners. Very aggressive with its own species (it probably lived in solitude except when breeding) and as it matures is often aggressive with other fish especially those resembling it and those with vertical stripes. Should be kept solitary (one fish per tank) with carefully-selected tankmates like the larger barbs and rasbora. Bottom fish (loaches and most catfish) should not be included with this species.
> Read more: Red Tailed Shark (Epalzeorhynchos bicolor ) Profile
> ​


Yeah i am pretty educated in the fish. I thought it was unusual for fish of the same size and temperment to have problems with each other


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

Hello and welcome to TFK :-D

I would definitly suggest reading the profiles for the fish that you have, some of them are shoaling fish and need to be kept in groups. When they are not kept in the needed group the fish can become stess and this can end up showing as disease, aggression, fin nipping and such. Angelfish need to be kept in groups of five or more and need to have at least a 4 foot long tank. It is not recommended keeping gouramis and angelfish together. The black skirt tetras which can be found under the name of black widow tetra also need to be kept within a larger group than what you have now. You can read the profiles for the different fish by either clicking on the shaded name, or by going to the link at the top of the page second tab from the left.


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## mileshs95 (Sep 24, 2011)

BarbH said:


> Hello and welcome to TFK :-D
> 
> I would definitly suggest reading the profiles for the fish that you have, some of them are shoaling fish and need to be kept in groups. When they are not kept in the needed group the fish can become stess and this can end up showing as disease, aggression, fin nipping and such. Angelfish need to be kept in groups of five or more and need to have at least a 4 foot long tank. It is not recommended keeping gouramis and angelfish together. The black skirt tetras which can be found under the name of black widow tetra also need to be kept within a larger group than what you have now. You can read the profiles for the different fish by either clicking on the shaded name, or by going to the link at the top of the page second tab from the left.


Thanks for your input but the angel isn't the one being aggressive . . . its the shark and gourami. and petco's compatibility chart shows that angels and gouramis are compatible as are sharks and gouramis and sharks and angels or i wouldnt have put them together


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## Santaclaws (Sep 20, 2011)

mileshs95 said:


> Thanks for your input but the angel isn't the one being aggressive . . . its the shark and gourami. and petco's compatibility chart shows that angels and gouramis are compatible as are sharks and gouramis and sharks and angels or i wouldnt have put them together


One thing you have to learn is the big chain stores are in it for the money nothing else. Petco and Petsmart are really bad they have no idea what fish lives with what or even the size. They are still in the dark ages where they think if you put a 2 ft fish in a 20 gal when its little it will not grow any more. Last time I was in Petsmart they do not like me there they had pairs of Convicts on sale as community fish. Not.Convicts when breeding will take on fish 5 time their size. I would do some research on your fish and rehome them if need be or take them back. Also are these 3 fish in a ten gal.


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## mileshs95 (Sep 24, 2011)

Santaclaws said:


> One thing you have to learn is the big chain stores are in it for the money nothing else. Petco and Petsmart are really bad they have no idea what fish lives with what or even the size. They are still in the dark ages where they think if you put a 2 ft fish in a 20 gal when its little it will not grow any more. Last time I was in Petsmart they do not like me there they had pairs of Convicts on sale as community fish. Not.Convicts when breeding will take on fish 5 time their size. I would do some research on your fish and rehome them if need be or take them back. Also are these 3 fish in a ten gal.


no these fish are in a 20 gal for now and if they outgrow it i will get a bigger one. it is not a conventional 20 gal however it is short and long providing more space to swim horizontally. could i put the angel in a 10 gal temporarily until it is big enough to defend itself?


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

A 20 gallon long is not going to be big enough for an angel long term. Angelfish really need the height with the way that their bodies are formed. Also if fish are kept in a smaller tank than what they need they may become stunted. One of the myths which still alot of people believe to be true is that a fish will only grow to the size of the tank that they are in. In reality the fish may not seem to be getting any larger, but its insides continue to grow, you can think of it as squeezing adult size organs into a two year old. Fish can go through growth spurts, times in which they are growing slowly and suddenly they start to grow quickly. A good rule of thumb to go buy when buying fish, is to buy fish that you are properly able to house at the time of purchase when they reach their adult size. We can have good intentions and plans to upgrade tanks in the future when the fish will need them, but things can happen that are unplanned. A loss of a job, decrease in income, unexpected expenses that may come up which can make our good plans and intentions something that we can not follow through on.


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## jennesque (May 11, 2011)

The only time you could possibly keep an angel in a 20 gal would be as a breeding pair, and it would need to be a 20gal tall tank, not 20 gal long which sounds like what you have. These would need to be the only fish in the tank.. 

You should see if you can't see any of these fish full grown in real life, that'll really put everything in perspective or at least it did for me.

Red tailed sharks are very aggressive fish and, unless in a very large tank with plenty of room to set up their territory, they can be very destructive. Adult angels can be the same way, although probably not as aggressive.. I'm not familiar with gourami, but I've heard they're aggressive as well. These three should not be kept in the same tank, or at least not in something so small. I'd say, at minimum something like a 75 gal
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mileshs95 (Sep 24, 2011)

thanks for your advice everyone, but the point has become moot. i woke up this morning to find the angel dead. it was in the very bottom corner of the tank leaning up against the glass. it doesnt look damaged it couldve been from stress of being picked on or not getting enough food because the gourami got to it first. the red tail and gourami seem to get along fine though.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

This same issue was raised in another thread to which I responded earlier, so I will just copy over what I said there so those following this thread have that information. Obviously, what I foretold in that other thread has already occurred. But at least this will explain why, and how to prevent it in future.

This state is very highly stressful to your fish. That means they are spending considerable energy dealing with stress, leaving them with less energy to fight off disease, properly digest food, and interact. In other words, they are continually being weakened.

At the very least, they will die prematurely, that is, with a shorter lifespan that if they were healthy. And worst they will come down with some health issue or contract a disease and cause more issues.

Fish in an aquarium absolutely cannot be healthy and at their best if there is stress being caused by aggression such as you have described. It does not need to manifest itself physically with nips or tears; it can by psychological due to pheromones released by the fish.

As for what to do, they must be separated. Either the aggressor(s) must be removed, or the fish being stressed must be removed.

One further comment to the above, to answer your question about semi-aggressive fish getting along, or if they might when they are larger. It does not work that way. Each fish species is programmed by nature; it is the way it is, and we cannot alter that. Some fish within a species show their natural behaviours/tendencies more, some less; no one knows why, but what is certain is that a species as a whole will tend to be a certain way. When selecting fish, one must take this into consideration. Various things bring out these inherent traits; the tank size has a lot to do with it, as does the environment (the decor in the tank). Also the number of fish of the species, some need several of their own species (shoaling fish), others do not. Water conditions can cause increased aggression. Filters and light can cause it. There is a great deal involved with the interaction of fish in a community aquarium, and I have only touched on some of the generalities.

Byron.


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## Jadenlea (Sep 5, 2011)

poor little angel fish


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