# Heating a 125 Gallon Tank



## Canadian Fish

Would I be better off getting a Marineland 400 Watt heater, which is rated for up to 125 gallons, or getting two Marineland 300 Watt heaters, rated up to 65 Gallons each. 

My thinking is, if I have the two 300 watt heaters, if one goes the other will keep the water warm enough to buy me some time to get a new heater. 

I live in Canada and it's going in my basement, so heating is important.


----------



## jeaninel

Your thinking is correct. Using 2 heaters, one at each end of the tank will also heat the water more evenly.


----------



## AbbeysDad

Definitely two heaters - I would choose 2x 250w Aqueon Pro heaters. (Plastic coated, aluminum core, fully submersible, red/green operation lights).

Footnote: I have an Aqueon 200w AND and Aqueon 250w in my 60g tank.


----------



## 1077

Two four hundred watt heater's one at each end of the tank would be my choice.
I have used Visitherm and Hydor heater's for a few year's now, and have no complaint's.


----------



## fish monger

I would go with the two 300 watt heaters.


----------



## Canadian Fish

Thanks for the advice guys!


----------



## AbbeysDad

Forgot to ask....will the basement be heated to room temperature (around 72F)?
If lower, more wattage would be required.


----------



## Canadian Fish

It's a little cooler. We keep the rest of the house at that temperature, but the basement never gets that warm. Even though that is where the furnace is. Go figure.

How much wattage do I need then?


----------



## AbbeysDad

My philosophy leans towards having one heater that will be able to maintain the proper temperature...then have another one as a backup. Both set to the proper temperature (no small feat in tweaking) they will normally share the load and if ever one should fail, the other can maintain the temperature. 

An Aquarium isn't an airline or space ship with multiple redundant systems...however, if a simple heater fails, it's nice to have a backup so as not to lose any fish!

I think two 250w would do it, but maybe two 300w is even better considering the lower room temperature. I think two 400w would be overkill.


----------



## Canadian Fish

Yeah, I absolutely want two filters in case one goes. My other tanks only have one, but they're all upstairs where it is warm.

I'm just wondering which size heaters I need. 2 x 300, 2 x 400? I don't want to buy more than I need, as this is already costing us a fortune, but I don't want to cheap out, either, and put my fish at risk.


----------



## phantomlink

Canadian Fish said:


> Yeah, I absolutely want two filters in case one goes. My other tanks only have one, but they're all upstairs where it is warm.
> 
> I'm just wondering which size heaters I need. 2 x 300, 2 x 400? I don't want to buy more than I need, as this is already costing us a fortune, but I don't want to cheap out, either, and put my fish at risk.


I would go with 2x300w for your setup, I saw the picture of the tank your talking about and it looks like a Big Als store if your based in Ontario, if so I got the same tank last month  I picked up some Jager Trutemp heaters, theres only like a $3 difference from 200w to 300w. I believe the 300w are around $34 or so. If you order from Big Als online, anything over $75 gets free shipping


----------



## Canadian Fish

Oops, I put filters earlier when I meant heaters. Well, I also want 2 filters as well. I was planning on going with an aquaclear 110 HOB and an Eheim 2217 Canister.

V it is a Big Al's. Which do you go to? I go to Ottawa West.

What filters do you run on your new aquarium? What sort of fish are you keeping in it? What did you choose for substrate and do you keep live plants. Any pics?

Sorry for all the questions, but as someone who just set up a similar tank you are in a unique position to provide insight. Thanks!

Edit: Wow, I just looked up those Jager heaters and the 300 watt is rated for a 150+ gallon tank, as opposed to the Marineland 300 Watt which is rated for under 100 gallons. Not much difference in price either. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Byron

Canadian Fish said:


> Oops, I put filters earlier when I meant heaters. Well, I also want 2 filters as well. I was planning on going with an aquaclear 110 HOB and an Eheim 2217 Canister.
> 
> V it is a Big Al's. Which do you go to? I go to Ottawa West.
> 
> What filters do you run on your new aquarium? What sort of fish are you keeping in it? What did you choose for substrate and do you keep live plants. Any pics?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, but as someone who just set up a similar tank you are in a unique position to provide insight. Thanks!
> 
> Edit: Wow, I just looked up those Jager heaters and the 300 watt is rated for a 150+ gallon tank, as opposed to the Marineland 300 Watt which is rated for under 100 gallons. Not much difference in price either. Thanks for the tip.


I agree with most of what has been suggested; two heaters, and in this case 300w. I have a Jager, the last heater i bought, and it seems to be well made (though nothing less than one would expect from Eheim).

I wouldn't have two filters, this is rarely necessary and one rated to the tank will be sufficient. And an Eheim canister rated for a 125g will more than do the job. But no mention is made of fish, so the type may be determined by that.


----------



## Canadian Fish

Byron, I am not sure exactly what I will be stocking, but this is what I have looked at so far. I am actually looking for some suggestions on that. It's in this thread:

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/stocking-new-125-gallon-tank-114191/


----------



## Byron

Canadian Fish said:


> Byron, I am not sure exactly what I will be stocking, but this is what I have looked at so far. I am actually looking for some suggestions on that. It's in this thread:
> 
> http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/stocking-new-125-gallon-tank-114191/


None of the fish mentinoed in the post #1 in that thread require fast currents, so the Eheim is fine. The nice thing is that you can use the spray bar for moderate flow, or remove it and just use the spigot for a stronger flow should that be needed.

[There are some issues with the mix of fish, I didn't read the entire thread, so just mentioning. I may get to that thread later.]


----------



## Canadian Fish

Thanks Byron. I was just going by aqadvisor which said I needed much more filtration than a single eheim would provide. I also thought it'd be good to have a backup if one ever died, and I thought the HOB might help oxygenate the water by breaking the water surface. However, if I don't need it, that saves me $100 CAD, and at this point every bit helps.

If you could have a look at my stocking list later, if you have time, I'd appreciate it. Your previous advice helped me avoid problems in stocking my current aquariums, and influenced my choice of fish on more than one occasion. 

Thanks again.


----------



## phantomlink

Canadian Fish said:


> Oops, I put filters earlier when I meant heaters. Well, I also want 2 filters as well. I was planning on going with an aquaclear 110 HOB and an Eheim 2217 Canister.
> 
> V it is a Big Al's. Which do you go to? I go to Ottawa West.
> 
> What filters do you run on your new aquarium? What sort of fish are you keeping in it? What did you choose for substrate and do you keep live plants. Any pics?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, but as someone who just set up a similar tank you are in a unique position to provide insight. Thanks!
> 
> Edit: Wow, I just looked up those Jager heaters and the 300 watt is rated for a 150+ gallon tank, as opposed to the Marineland 300 Watt which is rated for under 100 gallons. Not much difference in price either. Thanks for the tip.


The closest Big Als to me is in Barrie, just under two hours away. I make sure the trip is worth it since it costs me $40 in gas to drive there and back but their prices are pretty good. My 125 tank was $200 cheaper there then my LFS wanted to try to sell me so... ya...

I am running two AquaClear 110 OTB filters, I might trade it out down the road for a canister but I've put enough money into this tank I'm not going to change it right now. I would like to add some live plants but with the t8 lights and low wattage, I dont have many options for a tank this size. Down the road I'll prob swap out my lights for LED or a t5 system. I will be using sand as my substrate, and my stocking list can be found here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/125-gallon-tetra-stocking-help-114157/

I was hoping others would chime in with ideas, but still waiting. I will be building the stand tomorrow but for now I have the filters cycling in my 70 gallon catfish tank I'm also setting up


----------



## Canadian Fish

I like Aquaclear filters, I use them on my other tanks. I'm used to them and comfortable with them, so I originally wanted to use two 110 HOBs, I have a friend who has that on his 150 gallon tank and he doesn't seem to have any problems But everyone is strongly suggesting I go with a canister filter so I think I'm just gonna have to buckle down and try something new. 

My wife likes the look of sand, but I've heard it can be harder to keep clean than the gravel. Don't know if that's true or not, but again, I am resistant to change and all my other tanks have gravel.


----------



## AbbeysDad

Canadian Fish said:


> My wife likes the look of sand, but I've heard it can be harder to keep clean than the gravel. Don't know if that's true or not, but again, I am resistant to change and all my other tanks have gravel.


Not true - I found that sand is much eaiser/better than gravel. I don't clean as I believe the mulm feeds bacteria important to the system. The beauty of sand is that everything remains on the surface. If you wish to remove, just hover the gravel siphon just above the surface.


----------



## phantomlink

Canadian Fish said:


> I like Aquaclear filters, I use them on my other tanks. I'm used to them and comfortable with them, so I originally wanted to use two 110 HOBs, I have a friend who has that on his 150 gallon tank and he doesn't seem to have any problems But everyone is strongly suggesting I go with a canister filter so I think I'm just gonna have to buckle down and try something new.
> 
> My wife likes the look of sand, but I've heard it can be harder to keep clean than the gravel. Don't know if that's true or not, but again, I am resistant to change and all my other tanks have gravel.


Once you learn how, its easier to clean then gravel since all the leftover food/waste just sits on top the sand and you can filter it out instead of digging around the gravel. Plus with Corys and Kuhli loaches I need sand in my tank. The only pain is washing the sand since I'm in an apartment not a house with a hose/backyard


----------



## Canadian Fish

I'm just going by things I have read, like this:

"Every 2-4 weeks, depending on your fish load and available time, a good skimming of the sand should be performed. A small vinyl hose works well, about the inner diameter of a garden hose. Just hook the hose up to a faucet pump and siphon up the surface detritus. You may siphon a lot of sand the first couple of tries, a little practice is all it takes. Just keep the end of the hose about ½" away from the sand and quickly siphon up the fish waste. No need to remove or re-arrange the rocks, just get all the visible sand areas. Try to get the entire "visible" sand floor. Every 8-16 weeks, again, depending on fish load, a good churning of the sand bed is required. Trapped food and gasses can become toxic over time and these need to be released periodically. You’ll notice that there will be a statification of the sand bed. The bottom "trapped" layer of sand will turn a dark grey-black in time, and once the layer is churned up and the waste & gasses released, it will eventually turn back to the original sand color. You’ll even notice a bit of "rotten-egg" odor when churning the bed, this is normal and are just the gasses being released. At this time you should also move rocks and churn the sand under them. You may want to do half the tank at a time so there won’t be as much disturbance. You’ll have quite a cloud of debris, so you’ll want to let it settle and do a good skimming again. Be sure to keep all impeller-operated equipment off during the churning procedure"


Churning the sand, toxic food and gases, rotten egg odor, cloud of debris, all sounds like more hassle than my gravel is. Maybe it's just because I've never done it, but it sounds ominous.


----------



## phantomlink

Canadian Fish said:


> I'm just going by things I have read, like this:
> 
> "Every 2-4 weeks, depending on your fish load and available time, a good skimming of the sand should be performed. A small vinyl hose works well, about the inner diameter of a garden hose. Just hook the hose up to a faucet pump and siphon up the surface detritus. You may siphon a lot of sand the first couple of tries, a little practice is all it takes. Just keep the end of the hose about ½" away from the sand and quickly siphon up the fish waste. No need to remove or re-arrange the rocks, just get all the visible sand areas. Try to get the entire "visible" sand floor. Every 8-16 weeks, again, depending on fish load, a good churning of the sand bed is required. Trapped food and gasses can become toxic over time and these need to be released periodically. You’ll notice that there will be a statification of the sand bed. The bottom "trapped" layer of sand will turn a dark grey-black in time, and once the layer is churned up and the waste & gasses released, it will eventually turn back to the original sand color. You’ll even notice a bit of "rotten-egg" odor when churning the bed, this is normal and are just the gasses being released. At this time you should also move rocks and churn the sand under them. You may want to do half the tank at a time so there won’t be as much disturbance. You’ll have quite a cloud of debris, so you’ll want to let it settle and do a good skimming again. Be sure to keep all impeller-operated equipment off during the churning procedure"
> 
> 
> Churning the sand, toxic food and gases, rotten egg odor, cloud of debris, all sounds like more hassle than my gravel is. Maybe it's just because I've never done it, but it sounds ominous.


It all depends really, the corydoras will stir the sand around a little when they're looking for food, and my Kuhli loaches dig around in the sand so they will mix it around for me for the most part. Also having about an inch of sand limits how many of the bubbles you get, once you get to 2-3 inches of sand the chances get higher and higher


----------



## AbbeysDad

I think a lot of people are confused about sand beds...
I'm a firm believer in NOT stirring sand beds. Stirring the bed only creates a potential of burying organic matter deep in the sand resulting in anaerobic decomposition and black sand! If/when the sand is undisturbed, there is nothing that gets deep to decompose anaerobically.

I've had (pool filter) sand for months now and do not disturb the sand. There is no detritus below the surface and so there is no black sand with rotting material.
I'd ask others with sand to also comment. Just for reference see deep sand beds in freshwater.


----------



## Byron

Agree. The substrate is an important biological "bed" where all sorts of bacteria live and perform many necessary functions. You can read more here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/

Of course, plants impact all of this. And most tanks should have live plants.

Obviously, one has to maintain a fairly balanced system. If the fish load is beyond the basic capacity of the tank in terms of water volume, filtration, etc. you will have problems. And this is just as possible with gravel as with sand.

Byron.


----------



## Canadian Fish

Well, I get my water tested in my current tanks every one to two weeks, whenever I'm in the fish store. They never have ammonia or nitrites. Nitrates usually run between 5 and 20. They rarely go up to 20, just if I skip a weekly water change. Typically I do partial water changes on all of them once a week.

None of them have plants, but I keep the balance just fine, my fish are happy and healthy. 

My concern is if I will be able to duplicate this success with a new system (sand). I'm not questioning the value of the biological bed of bacteria that resides in the substrate. 

I'm going to try anubias and java fern in my new tank, my first foray into live plants. I'm pretty much a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy. If I was having trouble keeping consistent water parameters in my tanks I would be desperate to try something new, but since my tanks are stable, I think I am better to stick to what I know.


----------



## Byron

Canadian Fish said:


> Well, I get my water tested in my current tanks every one to two weeks, whenever I'm in the fish store. They never have ammonia or nitrites. Nitrates usually run between 5 and 20. They rarely go up to 20, just if I skip a weekly water change. Typically I do partial water changes on all of them once a week.
> 
> None of them have plants, but I keep the balance just fine, my fish are happy and healthy.
> 
> My concern is if I will be able to duplicate this success with a new system (sand). I'm not questioning the value of the biological bed of bacteria that resides in the substrate.
> 
> I'm going to try anubias and java fern in my new tank, my first foray into live plants. I'm pretty much a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy. If I was having trouble keeping consistent water parameters in my tanks I would be desperate to try something new, but since my tanks are stable, I think I am better to stick to what I know.


Just a comment on this matter of stability. If nitrates vary at all, the tank is not biologically stable. Over a period of years my tanks have never varied, nitrates are at 5ppm. I attribute this to the plants and weekly 50% water changes. In some of these I never touch the substrate (and it is sand), in some I vacuum lightly (one has sand, one gravel substrate).

Nitrates have more of an effect on fish than many realize--or are willing to realize--and at very low levels.


----------



## Canadian Fish

I only change 30% of my water weekly, but that usually keeps my nitrates at 5ppm. However, a couple of times this summer I went two weeks between water changes and then my nitrates did go up. Then we went 2 weeks and 5 days between changes, but we did a larger than usual water change, and the nitrates were 5 ppm again. That was last Monday. We were in Big Al's today, after doing our usual 30% change, and they are still at 5ppm.

However, I concede that if I skip a week I need to either change more water, or my nitrates rise. Perhaps plants would help with this? (Now that summer is over and camping is done, I think we will be better at sticking to our weekly change). Plus when we get the new tank we are FINALLY getting a python. Right now we use 4 buckets. Takes an hour to change the water in our 4 tanks, with my wife helping. Buckets suck. I told my wife if we didn't have the money for the python right away I was going to fill the 125 gallon tank with buckets. You should have seen the look she gave me. Would it be safe to run my hose from outside through my basement window to fill the tank, or are rubber outdoor hoses bad to use for fish tank water? 

Do Anubias and Java Ferns require the use of fertilizer? If so, will that limit what kind of fish I can put in my tank? If the Anubias and Java ferns work out in the big tank, maybe I'll try them in all my tanks. Will Silver Dollars eat them? 

Well, we're paying the tank off at the Big Tent Sale on Friday, if it is marked down. If not, we're paying it off double points day, which is the following Wednesday. So it should be here within the next two weeks. Need to rearrange my basement. 

My Big Al's had a large shipment of bala sharks in, and marked them down in their weekly flyer to 2.88 each (from 5.99) so I bought 5 and I am housing them in my silver dollar tank until the new tank is ready. They're tiny, about the size of my serpae tetras. My mollies are way bigger than the balas, so I assume they'll be ok for a few weeks. 

The Leopard Bush fish are still in quarantine. They have a big one that was returned, but he is a finicky eater. The small ones they got in are eating everything so I'm going to grab one when they're ready. Gorgeous fish! I can't wait. 

So I am definitely building my new tank around the balas. Maybe some barbs and loaches? My wife saw green tiger barbs today and loved them. We don't have any barbs because I didn't want them harassing any of our current fish with fin nipping.

Thanks again.

I really suck at taking pictures of fish. Our camera is garbage, and they just don't want to pose, lol.


----------



## Byron

> I only change 30% of my water weekly, but that usually keeps my nitrates at 5ppm. However, a couple of times this summer I went two weeks between water changes and then my nitrates did go up. Then we went 2 weeks and 5 days between changes, but we did a larger than usual water change, and the nitrates were 5 ppm again. That was last Monday. We were in Big Al's today, after doing our usual 30% change, and they are still at 5ppm.
> 
> However, I concede that if I skip a week I need to either change more water, or my nitrates rise. Perhaps plants would help with this?


Yes, live plants work to keep the tank biologically stable in many ways. But it is true that most aquarists with natural (= low-tech) planted tanks find nitrates remain very low, sometimes zero; mine stay at 5ppm or less (according to the API test) perhaps because i do have lots of fish in my tanks.

I have never missed a week of water changes so I can't say if I would see a rise in nitrates if I did.



> Plus when we get the new tank we are FINALLY getting a python. Right now we use 4 buckets. Takes an hour to change the water in our 4 tanks, with my wife helping. Buckets suck. I told my wife if we didn't have the money for the python right away I was going to fill the 125 gallon tank with buckets. You should have seen the look she gave me. Would it be safe to run my hose from outside through my basement window to fill the tank, or are rubber outdoor hoses bad to use for fish tank water?


May depend what the hose is made of. And bacteria does build up inside hoses. Presumably you would only have access to cold water from a garden (outdoor) tap.



> Do Anubias and Java Ferns require the use of fertilizer? If so, will that limit what kind of fish I can put in my tank? If the Anubias and Java ferns work out in the big tank, maybe I'll try them in all my tanks. Will Silver Dollars eat them?


I've not heard of any fish that will eat Java Fern. Anubias is pretty tough, but herbivores might try it. And speaking of which, Bala Shark are plant eaters. And, I've forgotten the tank size, but this species is best in an 8-foot tank, in a group of five. Check the profile. And at 14-16 inches, it will eat smaller fish.

Byron.


----------



## AbbeysDad

I'll expand a little on the deep substrate bio-filtration capability. Many think that the only place beneficial biology lives is in the bio-media in the filter. Others are aware that bacteria lives in/on any surface where conditions make it possible....and there is no greater place than in the substrate, especially sand. More importantly different bacteria coexist at different levels within the substrate and work together in a symbiotic harmonious relationship to each other. Much of this is relative to the levels in the substrate and the available oxygen. This is why leaving the sand substrate undisturbed is so important. Alternatively, one could have 1" or less substrate in which case, bio-filtration capability is significantly reduced.

Oh and yes, plants, even floating plants will help keep nitrates lower. However, you'd need a heavily planted tank with a modest stock level to keep nitrates from increasing with time...which is one of the reasons we do weekly water changes of enough volume to dilute the pollution.

As to the Python, they are fine. I had a similar device back in the 70's when I had a water bed ;-) Alternatively, I paid $5 for a hose adapter for my sink and use a standard garden hose. I siphoned out the from door, then hooked to the sink faucet for the refill.
Some are afraid of garden hoses because unlike when I was a kid and we drank daily from the garden hose, now a days it's forbidden. Filling your tank from a garden hose is just fine as long as it is flushed first to remove any 'bad' water.


----------



## Canadian Fish

We still drink from the hose. My kid drinks from the hose, but we try to raise our fish better than we're raising our kid. 

:lol:


----------



## AbbeysDad

Canadian Fish said:


> We still drink from the hose. My kid drinks from the hose, but we try to raise our fish better than we're raising our kid.
> :lol:


Okay 'daddy dearest'! hehe

The real problem with drinking from the garden hose is all the bacteria that can grow in that hose sitting there in the yard or garden. Ever notice how hot the water in the hose gets sitting in the sun....nice 'n warm to culture all sorts of 'interesting' creatures....but go ahead and give the kids a big gulp...just make sure the insurance premiums are kept up to date :lol:


----------



## Canadian Fish

We're in Canada. Taxes pay for our health care, not insurance. Even poor people can afford to get sick in Canada. :roll:


----------



## phantomlink

Canadian Fish said:


> We're in Canada. Taxes pay for our health care, not insurance. Even poor people can afford to get sick in Canada. :roll:


Might be able to afford it, but it still sucks getting there. I'm sick right now and wish I wasnt :/


----------



## AbbeysDad

phantomlink said:


> Might be able to afford it, but it still sucks getting there. I'm sick right now and wish I wasnt :/


There is truth to the old saying 'if you don't have your health, you don't have anything'.

Sorry your not well...I hope you're on the mend and feeling better soon!


----------

