# stalking and plumbing



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

ok so first off i put this in this section because it will mainly be about stalking. i already posted one post but i think it is done so i will start another.
so im going to the fish store today and i would like to get some fish to stalk my 29gal.
what i would love to have is:
cory, prob like 10 pandas
discus: 2 orange or red ones
eel: peacock eel or a eel of the spiny eel type.
GB rams: german blue rams a mating pair
tetras: like 40-100 rummy or neon tetras

i do have some fish in the tank:
convict cichlid: about 4 inches, one of them
spotted sailfin pleco: 3-4 inched, also one of them

i got the convict from a person that had babies and didnt want them, and i bought the pleco when i wasnt knowledgable and put it in my 10gal planted. i could give the pleco back to the store but they dont accept convicts so idk what to do with it, but i dont want it. i was hoping when i took the convict that i could give it away once it got bigger. so if anyone lives in washington, near seattle and wants either a nice pleco or a convict just tell me, the convict is beutiful it just wont work with any of the fish i want except mabey the eel if its big enough.

ok so i have some big decitions. i like the idea of have 10 panda cories and mabey 50 tetras of some type. would that be overfrowded? i also like eel with GB rams. discus would be mostly by itself maby 20 tetras. am i pushing it?


ok so my second problem is my diy sump filter.

i made an overflow and all the tubing and its all sealed. it goes through the filter matirial then through a big pump and back in. for some reason my water lever rises when i get it all going. i know there is prob a very easy solution but i just cant think of it. im pretty shure its that my pump is to powerful, does this means the whole thing has to be very persise? also could i just put a valve in it? and wouldnt that crat to much preasure and have the whole thing spew water all over the floor? i tried a bunch of things but the only thing that worked was take all the water out of the sump, start a suction in the tank and turn on the pump, but that means it runs dry part of the time and makes a huge noise. there is already enough noise in my room, i dont need any more!:shock:


----------



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

ok so now that i think about it i will get rid of the pleco and the convict and get 10 panda cories and 50neon tetras. it says that will be 124% stocked which is a lil overstocked but i think i could pull it off


----------



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

could someone please help me? i dont really know what to do. i am now thinking of rearranging the tank so cories will like it more so how many cories can i put in, i will want a group of like 10 tetras and also i was wondering if i could add some rams to the mix? please someone answer becuase i ordered rams at a lfs and they get them friday. PLEASE!


----------



## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

If im not mistaken your rams will get large enof to eat your tetras if you went that rout. If it were me i would go with 20 neons, 5 cory, and a rubber pleco. not the rams or the convict or the comon pleco. You should do a lot more research before geting your stock. *Check the compatabilty, the ph, the water parmas, the substraight, the temp. ECT. Of each fish that could go together*. Now with that said you could do what ever you want. But if some one tells you some thing i would reserch it and make sure it will work. Alot of people on here have experiance. And quite a few like your self are asking for help. We are glad to help. But you will have to listen to what we say. Sorry bout being blunt, but thats the way it is. If i can help any more then just ask. Best wishes to your restocking.......PS also corys need sand for there substrat


----------



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

THANKS! i dont mind you being blunt, its the easiest way to get your point across and now i understand. so ive been reaserching for a bit now and i have figured out that my pleco gets up to 7inch, would that still be small enough for the tank. i also figured out that its a 30gal normal tank, so could i put angels in there? i would like about 4 angels and a lot of cories and the pelco. although i oculd also have 4 angels, 2 GB rams, and some cories. would that be overstocked. i would like around 6-10 cories.


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

teddyzaper said:


> THANKS! i dont mind you being blunt, its the easiest way to get your point across and now i understand. so ive been reaserching for a bit now and i have figured out that my pleco gets up to 7inch, would that still be small enough for the tank. i also figured out that its a 30gal normal tank, so could i put angels in there? i would like about 4 angels and a lot of cories and the pelco. although i oculd also have 4 angels, 2 GB rams, and some cories. would that be overstocked. i would like around 6-10 cories.


I would not have a 7-inch pleco in a 30g aquarium. If the store will take it in exchange, as you mentioned earlier, I would exchange it for either a small pleco (there are species that max out at 3-4 inches) or the corys. Six to ten corys would work; select minimum 3 of each species for best results (assuming you want different species, or they can all be the same obviously).

A 30g is too small for angels, which should be in a group so 4 is OK but not in a 30g. They need considerably more room to properly develop as they grow or health issues are probable.

A pair of rams would work, but what are your water parameters? The common ram is sensitive to water conditions and requires soft slightly acidic water and warm temperatures (above 80F) which may not suit most corys that prefer it below 80F (78F is fine for most).

Byron.


----------



## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

I agree with byron>>>>>>>


----------



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

my hardness is soft and my water is partially acidic so i think the rams would work. if i took out the pleco and didnt add a smaller one, what other fish could i add?


----------



## mollies (Mar 27, 2009)

As others will say do you have a liqiud test kit? IF not your lfs may test Your water. what is your exact parma's. amon, nitra, nitri, ph, gh, kh, ECT. We need to know that befor we could realy make a recomendation.


----------



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

ok well the lfs is like 2hrs away so i cant go there but i can give:
Nitrate 20ppm
nitrite 2.0ppm other two tests said 1.0ppm... should i be woried, just did pwc and dont have filter up yet
hardness 100ppm
alkalinity 150ppm
ph 7.0


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

teddyzaper said:


> ok well the lfs is like 2hrs away so i cant go there but i can give:
> Nitrate 20ppm
> nitrite 2.0ppm other two tests said 1.0ppm... should i be woried, just did pwc and dont have filter up yet
> hardness 100ppm
> ...


Rams are very sensitive to water conditions/quality and should only be added to a well established aquarium, which means one that has been cycled and running 2-3 months. Fluctuating water stability is common in newer aquaria and rams frequently will die under such conditions. If you explain things to the store, they should be willing to hold the rams if you must buy them.

Your water hardness is not too bad, 100ppm equates to about 5 dGH. But the alkalinity is a different matter. Alkalinity refers to the buffering capacity of the water, related to the carbonate hardness (KH). The higher the alkalinity, the stronger the buffering action, which means it will be more and more difficult to lower the pH. At 150ppm (= 8.3 dKH) the water will be quite resistant to pH fluctuations. The biological processes in an aquarium naturally add carbon dioxide (CO2) to the water and this lowers the pH, but only if the KH is low. The higher KH buffers the water so the pH will not lower. This is why pH lowering chemicals do not work long-term.

I mention this because the common ram requires very soft and acidic or slightly acidic water. In its natural habitat the waters have zero degrees of hardness and the pH is around 5.5 and lower. In spite of being tank raised, this fish has shown that it will not fare well in moderately hard and basic water. With the degree of alkalinity in your water, it will not acidify over time and it will be resistant to attempts to lower the pH. The ram is not a fish I would recommend for your situation.

Your nitrate reading is fine, in an established aquarium most aquarists aim to keep nitrates at 20ppm or lower. The weekly partial water change helps do this, and having live plants almost guarantees it, unless something drastic occurs to throw the biological equilibrium out.

Nitrite at 2 is cause for concern. Assuming this is the cycling process working its way through, I would continue with daily partial water changes of up to 50%, using a good water conditioner, until this level is down to zero. Once the tank has readings of zero for ammonia and nitrite for consecutive days, it is cycled for the biological load in it (the fish, etc). You should certainly not add any new fish to this tank until it is cycled.

Byron.


----------



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

ok my nitrates were 0 yesterday.
well im not sure i can hold the rams because they will be coming tomorrow and the store i ordered it from is mainly dog pet store so they only have some cuppies and bettas, so they cant really hold it. is it a horrible idea to try and take them? if i dont they give it to one of the staff with a fish tank with misterious creatures in it  i dont want to do that and also dont want to bring it home if im gonna kill it but most likely they will die. i also need a way to get rid of a convict cichlid, no fish store anywhere near me will take it and unless i can stop the order it will kill my rams anyways. the only way i could get rid of it is to either give it away to someone, but again no one wants it, or humanly kill it. i would hate to kill it but its the only way. i would also love to keep this beutifull fish but i just dont want it in that tank and the only other tank i have is a growing tank for a JD which is only 1 inch long and a pictus cat which is also 1 inch long. would it survive temporarily in a 20 gal with nothing in it at all? i NEED it gone, and if killing it is the only way please post the most humane way please.

ok so should i just keep watch on my water perams and make shure id doesnt move before i get the fish? the tank has been up for almost a month so its not brand new, i added 2 pumps for water circulation so the water doesnt become stagnant. if you didnt know, there is no filter on it, i ordered a sponge filter last week monday on ebay ($2.99 great deal) and it hasnt come yet, so im waiting very impaciently for it.i do water changes every couple days, 2-4 days, 30% (3 five gal buckets) as for the filter, would a simple sponge filter be enough for this tank, the sponge is rated for 40gallons. also, since i want 6-10 panda cories there will prob be babies, would i need another tank for them, and also you didnt tell me the recomended fish.
water perams:
nitrates: 20ppm
nitrites: 3.0ppm
hardness:150ppm
no chlorine (well water)
alkalinity: 100ppm
ph: 7.0

ok so what i said bout my nitrites up there was from yesterdays test, i did this test right now, i am gonna try to stop the order tommorrow because they are closed right now. what should i do? should i take out the fish, i could plrobably go get a test at petco but they are expensive, is it REALLY REALLY necicary or worth it (a liquid test) also what kind of test, what does it look like, can i go cheap on it, keep in mind this isnt a fancy petco, although nice tanks, only seen ich in one tank and they controled it, but they arent gonna have excact brands that you name so just give me a good description of what to look for? im really nervous because of those reading so ill go do a few more tests right now just for the nitrites. if there is anything different ill post below.
nothing different.
ARGH IM SCARED PLEASE HELP ME (longest post ever)


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

teddyzaper said:


> ok my nitrates were 0 yesterday.
> well im not sure i can hold the rams because they will be coming tomorrow and the store i ordered it from is mainly dog pet store so they only have some cuppies and bettas, so they cant really hold it. is it a horrible idea to try and take them? if i dont they give it to one of the staff with a fish tank with misterious creatures in it  i dont want to do that and also dont want to bring it home if im gonna kill it but most likely they will die. i also need a way to get rid of a convict cichlid, no fish store anywhere near me will take it and unless i can stop the order it will kill my rams anyways. the only way i could get rid of it is to either give it away to someone, but again no one wants it, or humanly kill it. i would hate to kill it but its the only way. i would also love to keep this beutifull fish but i just dont want it in that tank and the only other tank i have is a growing tank for a JD which is only 1 inch long and a pictus cat which is also 1 inch long. would it survive temporarily in a 20 gal with nothing in it at all? i NEED it gone, and if killing it is the only way please post the most humane way please.
> 
> ok so should i just keep watch on my water perams and make shure id doesnt move before i get the fish? the tank has been up for almost a month so its not brand new, i added 2 pumps for water circulation so the water doesnt become stagnant. if you didnt know, there is no filter on it, i ordered a sponge filter last week monday on ebay ($2.99 great deal) and it hasnt come yet, so im waiting very impaciently for it.i do water changes every couple days, 2-4 days, 30% (3 five gal buckets) as for the filter, would a simple sponge filter be enough for this tank, the sponge is rated for 40gallons. also, since i want 6-10 panda cories there will prob be babies, would i need another tank for them, and also you didnt tell me the recomended fish.
> ...


 
OK, first off, relax, this is not insurmountable and most of us have gone through similar when we started.

First, regardless of anything, do not buy more fish of any type until the tank is cycled. It will only make it worse and probably lead to the fish dying.

Second, leave the tank alone, don't move out the fish that are there (except to sell/give them to someone). Do daily partial water changes of 50% with a good conditioner. That's it.

Third, as for getting rid of your fish, if you are in Washington (is that DC, or Washington State?) there must be more than one fish store. Ask around. Some will take a fish like the convict; they know we all buy fish on impulse and they get too big, and your efforts to correct this is a positive, and they would like your business. Ask around. Also, there may be a hobbyists club in the area, and sometimes a member will take fish like this. Hobbyists also want to help you, just as we all do here on this forum.

Fourth, the filter sounds fine.

Keep us posted. Good luck.

Byron.


----------



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

its washingtong state, and the only fish stores near me wont take it and they closest one would cost $60 to get to because of a ferry ride. ill look for some clubs but i havent found any so far. for some odd reason i get the feeling that the fish stores near my dont really like my buisness, mabey its because i take so long or something, i just want the right fish.


----------



## teddyzaper (Aug 30, 2009)

ok so i went to petco today and was about to get a water tester kit and some water conditioner then i noticed a cascade canister filter for cheap. so i got the filter ($95) and brought it home to hook it up. getting really excited i opened up the box and got it half set up. i then went to have some dinner and came back. when i came back i started setting it up and noticed that one of the pieces looked different to the other piece that served the same purpose but for output not input. i grabbed it and took a long look at it and noticed it was snapped in half. i am very very angry and now tommorrow i gotta get my dad to drive me 1hr to go to petco just to get a new filter.
GRRRRR!
i didnt get anything other then the filter and will just keep doing pwc. my water is fine so it doesnt need the water conditioner, the nitrates, nitrites and ph are all stable in my water because its well water, but i guese that is why it is such hard water.


----------

