# My tank is cycling again !!! Help. What should I do?



## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

I have 1 siamese and 1 molly in 20 litre tank. I had already cycled my tank before adding them. Since I had added them into tank all the water level had spike again I have done water change but still I have no luck I also have added ammonia lock which has lowered the ph level but has dramatically spiked.

I have had 1 fish pass away already and I have had them for 4 day now...

What should I do? Keep doing water change? Should I do vacuum clean?There is all lot of green algae growing in my tank. I know my tank is small for my molly but I have been looking at purchasing bigger tank. I have 1 nitrate snails in my tank at the moment.

Ammonia 4 -8ppm
Ph 7.6 darker
Nitrite 0.25ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

I think my betta has got ammonia burn what should I do? I'm scared that I am going to lose them. Could it be my filter.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh your poor fish :-(

How long did you cycle your tank prior and what method did you use? ie. Fish-Less with Shrimp/fish food/ammonia, fish-in or did you use any cycling products?

With ammonia burns you can use a bath of Methylene Blue to help, you would do it in another small container like a 3.4 liter (1 gallon) or anything smaller will be fine as long as it's not smaller than 1 liter ideally; just makes dosing easier if you use around 1 gallons. It's good for treating both ammonia and nitrite burns.

What kind of filter do you have in the tank? I think that's enough questions for now, it's okay if you can't answer some just do your best ^_^


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

It aqua one 101f maxi, I used fish food and it took about month for my tank yo cycled. Should I keep doing water changes?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, keep doing daily water changes if you can, if not every other day.

Can you test your tap water for pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?

Did you add the fish all at the same time? Or gradually over a few weeks?


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## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

Sorry MissBec, but based on your post http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-freshwater-aquarium/ammonia-wont-go-down-need-advice-362233/page3/#post4124018 it doesn't seem like you were done fishless cycling. You were getting there but not done yet. Fishless cycling is done when your aquarium can convert 4 ppm of ammonia to nitrates in 24 hours.

First thing, absolutely no more fish. 20 liters is about 5 gallons. That's enough for a Betta and a snail, but not anything else. I know you said you're planning a bigger tank, but we have to deal with things right now first. That's just too much bioload.

lilnaugrim gave good advice with keeping up the water changes. Make sure that when you do you are using a dechlorinator that will lock the ammonia. This will be safer for the fish, but will give you a false high reading. That's ok. Fishless cycling takes work, but it's not the end of the world and people on here can help you through it.

One other thing, not sure if you have plants, but they will help. Floating plants especially since they will grow quickly even with stock lighting since they are so close to it.


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

I thought I did completed the fish cycled... no one responded to my post so I talked to this guy at the pet shop he said it did cycled, I have been talking to guy for about month and half. I was alway in and out of the shop now I know not to trust him!!!! 

How long will it take my tank to cycled while I have fish? What if I added another filter in my tank? Or would that be overload ?

I added all this fish at the same time


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## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

Adding a second filter will give bacteria more places to grow, but will not increase bacteria. I'm going to be honest and say I've never had a tank that small. I almost wonder if a second filter would create too much current for you. I'd personally pass, especially since you should get the molly into a bigger tank at the first opportunity you get. They get much too big to be in something so small. Since the goal is hopefully to move it you shouldn't be worried about additional bioload.

I can't say how long it will take. You have a start, so hopefully not too long. I would also stop feeding the fish for a while so you can get the ammonia back under control. BTW I said you should use a dechlorinator that locks ammonia, that is unnecessary since that is what your Ammonia-Lock is doing. Your test is reading high because of it, otherwise at those levels your fish would be dead already. Keep using that and keep doing water changes.


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

What type of floating plant i should get? Also Can plant cause ammonia?

I feed the fish twice a day should I cut back? Betta seems to have big apetite she alway eats the Molly food. How many day should I stop feeding them or should I cut back to feedibg to once a day? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I recommend Water Wisteria or Anacharis for good ammonia soaking plants. Basically the faster the plant grows, the more it soaks up excess ammonia and other nutrients; this also helps keep algae away too if you have enough plants.

Were you bringing samples to the store to get tested or just talking to the guy? He might know his stuff but just didn't know your situation is all. Each tank is different in some ways depending on if you've got live plants or not or how your water is straight from tap. Generally it does take a month so he was most likely guessing that it was cycled, I wouldn't hold it against him really but politely inform him is all. You know when your tank is cycled when both ammonia and nitrite are reading zero, nitrates will be high but you'll do a large water change to decrease them and them test the next day and both ammonia/nitrite again should be zero and nitrates will be mostly acceptable range. If ammonia/nitrite are NOT zero then the tank is not finished cycling yet. Generally we recommend testing for a whole week just to be completely certain that the tank is cycled and ready for fish.

You can fast the fish for around a week right now just to really get that ammonia under control, it won't hurt them at all. And then you can do once daily feedings afterwards and then go back to your twice daily if you so wish to. What foods are you feeding them? Higher quality food won't foul the water as much, is why I ask. If you do want to feed them make sure there are absolutely no leftovers!


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## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

For floating plants I'm personally a fan of Amazon frogbit, dwarf water lettuce, and wisteria. Red root floater is also nice. I've never had success with watersprite. Rotala rotundifolia was a nice easy to keep stem that may or may not work since I don't know your lighting situation. I'm not sure what plants are available in Australia, but any floater should work for you. I consider duckweed a nuisance, but have to admit it grows quickly. You'll just never get rid of it 

lilnaugrim is right again. If you told the guy at the fish store that you had zero ammonia and nitrites and were showing nitrates he would assume you had cycled. Which is right. I just prefer to see more bacteria built up from the start to avoid situations like this. I'm also leery of using food or shrimp to try and fishless cycle. My preference is pure ammonia since it is much easier to know how much ammonia you are adding. I didn't relize when I was trying to help you before that you were using food. That was likely why your ammonia was so high. My fault for not finding out and I'm sorry.

Not going to repeat the rest of what lilnaugrim said. I personally only ever feed once a day and also fast once a week.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Really? Oh geeze, my water sprite takes over EVERYTHING when I add it to any tanks! I routinely have to trim off the babies and either throw them away, sell them or throw them in an extra tank if I actually happen to have any lol

I agree with the duckweed, once you have it you'll never get rid of it! So just be mindful of that, it also blocks out the light for plants under it if you happen to have other ones. If you just have fake plants under them it could be okay but I'd still definitely go with one of ones that BWG posted for sure!

I also only feed once a day and fast 2-3 days in a row just because I'm not at home for those days but the fish don't mind  they can easily live months without food, of course it's not terribly healthy for them to do so but it is possible!


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

It's okay BWG, I did got my water tested at the shop every thing was zero except for nitrate which was 10ppm then they told me it that my tank was cycled. 

I will go and purchase some plant tonight  I tested my tap water everything it was 0 and ph was 6.8. Is it common for molly to eat baby snail? i watch him yesterday morning and he ate a few. I can't seem to find any baby snails at the moment in my tank.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, that's pretty common. I had a sorority who wiped out my snail infestation in just a few hours lol How many snails are in the tank/what kind? They also contribute highly to the bio-load so that could also be an issue.

As for the levels getting to zero, that's great but as I said, we generally like to test for at least a week after the initial test at zero. Sometimes it can be false as yours might have been and you just caught it at a good moment is all. But now you know for the future!

So all you can really do now is just keep up with water changes daily if you can. Don't feed for at least a week so you can get the ammonia under control and then feed sparingly every other day or so. What kind of food do you have and what are the first three ingredients?

Even though it is recommended with Fish-Less cycling to immediately add your fish, it depends on which type you used. With food cycling I find that you don't grow as much bacteria, it is just enough to take care of the food waste but not enough to take care of a molly, a betta and whatever snails you have in there. With using pure ammonia you can increase the ammonia so that the bacteria can handle a larger bioload when the fish are introduced after the cycle is done.

Also, I do agree that Molly's get much too big for a tank that size, they can reach up to 5 inches but generally on average of 3 inches. Regardless of size, Molly's are livebearers and livebearers tend to be rather messy and poop a lot lol. Bettas on the other hand do not poop as much, once a day generally at most sometimes twice but it's not as much and not as often so they have less of a bioload. And then snails, even Nerite snails which poo the least amount of all the freshwater snails, still poo's a lot. Any fish/invert that eats algae will poop a lot, shrimp not as much though.


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

I did have 10 baby snails but they seem to disappeared and 1 nitrite snail (full grown) in the tank. 
The food that I am feeding for my siamsee fish is: 
Betta Granules - Aquarium (this is my local brand) , it doesn't say much except for shrimp and fish based protein. 

Nutrafin Max flakes - cereal, fish and fish derivaties, molluscs and crustacean

For my molly I had realized he doesn't come up to the surface to eat so i only give 1 small pinch since the Siamese always eats the food and he eats the left overs. He does poop all lot lol.


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

I just brought regular pink baby tears for my tank. I tested the water before adding them it is, what should i do next??
Ammonia 2ppm - 4ppm
Ph 7.6
nitrite 0.25ppm
Nitrate 20ppm


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

What kind of lights do you have? Baby Tears generally require high lighting situation and depending on the type, they prefer co2 addition as well.


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

I have 11 watt... Man I feel like I'm not getting anything right


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It's okay, this stuff happens but you learn from it!

Do you know what the Kelvin rating is of the bulb? I assume it might be an Incandescent bulb? Does the light look orange-ish? The Kelvin Rating is the color temperature of the bulb, most incandescent bulbs--well frankly, they suck and aren't good for anything except not growing algae lol. The typical incandescent that comes with a tank is around 2,000 Kelvin. For optimal color temp you want 6,500K or higher to grow plants.

I've personally never seen an incandescent above 4,000K lol but for cost efficiency and a better light you should look for a CFL or Compact Fluorescent Light which won't heat up your water like incandescent's do. Fluorescent's also use less energy which is what your wattage measures so you can easily have a 7-9 watts and be waaaaayyyy more efficient than any Incandescent light!

Hope this helps, let me know if something doesn't make sense.

Also, I found my Mini CFL's at Wal-mart at 6,500K, it was a 3 pack for only 2.88! Pretty cheap and awesome if you ask me ^_^


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## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

There are three species of baby tears: giant (Hemianthus umbrosom) which are rarely seen here but yeah I have no clue what kind of plants are sold there, regular which is also called pearl grass (Hemianthus glomeratus but usually sold as Hemianthus micranthemoides), and dwarf (Hemianthus callitrichoides). If that's not confusing enough there's a terrestrial plant called the same thing that wouldn't grow underwater.

The regular is easier to keep than the dwarf. I've actually heard of people keeping it in low light/low tech tanks. Dwarf baby tears on the other hand do better with a lot of light and CO2, but then most plants do.

Long winded explanation short. You might be ok. 

Oh and yeah I killed watersprite :/ One of my very first plants and something I plan to try again. It never grew at all. The wisteria I added at the same time did enough for both. Going to try my hand to the watersprite again though when I find some.


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

With the light it compact fluorescent 11 watts, 11 watt ballast, Ac210V50Hz. Oscar Enterprises Inc.
Nominal current: 0.155Amp

I cant see what the kevin rating is but the light is bright white, the shop that i brought the plants from had low light... finger cross

I did tested water this morning, it look all lot better today 
Ph 6.8
Ammonia 0.50ppm
Nitrite 0.25ppm
Nitrate 10 - 20ppm

what should i do next?


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## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

Keep doing what you are doing what you have been doing. The goal is to get ammonia and nitrites both to zero and keep them that way. Things are looking good though, now it's just a matter of making them even better and keeping them that way.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

A water change. Your goal, as BWG said, is to get ammonia and nitrites to 0.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

How would I make a transition from small tank to a big tank? Would I have to wait until it is cycled.


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## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

If you are moving all of the fish then I'd say no you wouldn't need to wait. You'd have to move the filter though. True some of the bacteria is in the substrate, but you're establishing that right now anyway. 

If you're moving just the molly I might wait and then use some of the media from the cycled filter to help speed things up.


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

I havent change tank yet (havent got a tank yet) my ammonia has gone extremely high around 4 - 8 ppm and my betta fish is going white under her belly is that ammonia burns? I have been doing daily changes and had added ammonia lock every two days
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 40ppm 
Ph; 6.6
What should I do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The white or paleness of the fish is just stress related, not burns. Ammonia burns will be redden if not mistaken, you would find them most likely in the gills.

Just keep doing what you have been doing, I know it's a pain in the butt and all but it's worth it in the end.

Are you able to invest in any "insta-cycle" material such as Tetra Safe Start at all? That would at least help increase your bacteria count initially so they can deal with the bioload of the two fish and snails. 

Your pH has dropped almost 10 points, is that 6.6 reading true or did you accidentally type that and it is still 7.6?


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## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

As far as I know Tetra Safe Start is unavailable to MissBec since she lives in Australia, where the import laws are what they are. I don't know for sure, not living there, but it is what I've been told by people that do.

MissBec-Just keep doing what you are. Your ammonia is not actually that high. The Ammonia Lock you are using is giving you a false reading. I'd guess you have some ammonia, but no clue how much. I'd guarantee though it is not that high, especially if you're not feeding the fish. You may want to look for another product though, but not because of the false reading. Do they sell Prime in Australia? Or a similar dechlorinator that also neutralizes nitrites? The Ammonia Lock is neutralizing your ammonia and making it safe (yay!) but doing nothing to neutralize the nitrites (boo!). Having something that will do both will help your fish be less stressed.

How are the plants doing?


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

I' don't think Australia sell Tertra safe start, I had this product whicht I only use once but it called sera toxivec I added some tonight hopefully it will help. . I'm not too sure about prime I will check that out, what type of bacteria starter will be good to give my tank head start?

I will post picture later of the betta she starting to get all lot of white on side of her body, the molly seems to be doing really well in the tank.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh yes, my apologies! I forget that we're all in different countries half the time!

If you are looking for a bacteria starter, look at the ingredients. Ideally you want Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira, and Nitrospira. Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira(I believe it's that one?) are the more important ones as they are the bacteria you actually want in your Bacteria Colony! Nitrosomonas are the ones that convert Ammonia into Nitrite and then Nitrospira take over and convert that Nitrite into Nitrate :-D 

So what I'm getting at is, not all Bacterial Supplements are created equal! Those three bacteria up there are what is in Tetra SafeStart


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

I tested my water it was:
Ph: 6.6
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
Nitrite: 20 - 40ppm

Is it giving me false reading? has my tank cycled or no? do you think my betta is stress, she going white every where now, she use to be solid brown/purpleish


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah yes, those are just stress stripes, normal for when a fish is...well, stressed  She should be fine otherwise though


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Ah yes, those are just stress stripes, normal for when a fish is...well, stressed  She should be fine otherwise though


Thanks I went out and brought API stress + zyme. How long does it take a fish to gain back its full colour?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

MissBec said:


> Thanks I went out and brought API stress + zyme. How long does it take a fish to gain back its full colour?


It depends on what is stressing the fish out. if it's just water quality then she will un-stress when the water goes back to being good quality. API Stress Coat is a fine water conditioner but it doesn't "de-stress" fish, it just adds Aloe Vera which is a little debated on whether or not it actually helps. If anything, it helps regrowth of fins not destressing. I know the names are super confusing. Stress Zyme is a bacterial supplement although not very good but you can still use it if you feel the need to ^_^


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## MissBec (Feb 4, 2014)

for the past 2 days the nitrite had spiked I have tested it this morning it was 0ppm, nitrates 10ppm, ammonia is 8ppm ( I have been adding ammonia lock and doing daily water changes) ph: 6.6 had my tank cycled? 

I also have feeling my ammonia is off, it's turns into dark blue, when you first add the soultion it turns green but then it turns into dark blue.


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