# Bigger goldfish with little ones?



## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Hey guys, quick question.

In a few weeks, i want to get a new tank, somewhere between 55-90 gallons(whatever I find for a good deal) 

I plan on getting the tank, doing a full fishless cycle, and then it will be my new goldfish tank.


I have seen a few really nice solid white fish in with the goldfish at one of my local fish stores, and I assume they're goldfish since they're labelled as such and kept in with the other goldfish, but they are all much bigger than my current goldfish, the fish I have right now are three goldfish between 2-4 inches, very similar in size, but haven't got a ruler to get their exact, and the goldfish I've been seeing are probably almost 7 inches.

If I put all four of them in a larger tank(the one between 55-90 gallons) will it be likely that the larger one would become dominant, or attack the smaller ones(he's big, but not big enough to swallow them as far as it looks to me) 

I can't remember right now, but I think they were either comets or commons, and the three I have are two comets, and one common.

I also may get one or more golden weather loaches, and assume there is an inherent risk of the larger goldfish gobbling one of them up, but it seems like they would hide themselves easy enough.

And I also plan on slowly adding the fish, I want to add two of mine after I'm sure it's cycled, then the third one after a week or two, then the large one after another week or so, and then any loaches wouldn't be right away anyway.

Any words of advice?
Maybe getting an even larger tank upwards of 125 and get two or three more similar in size to my current three so that they can be seen less as an easy meal?


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

As long as they won't fit in the larger goldfish's mouth, smaller goldies should be berfectly safe with larger goldfish. 

The huge no-no is to house commons with fancies, in which case the fancies will ultimately be outcompeted for food, get beaten up from being on the recieving end of a goldfish mating, or have their eyes eaten out. Since commons need about 80g per fish you might do best to either put them in a friend's pond or make a small pond for them as a summer project. Ponds are so easy to keep nowadays... I have seen them in full-sized backyards, on patios, on porches (the deck, not the luxury car  ) and even inside houses. Many people opt to get those huge rubbermaid watering troughs.

Andy yes, you should definitely slowly add the fish... bacteria reproduce REALLY quickly so even one per day would probably be reasonable.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

kelly528 said:


> As long as they won't fit in the larger goldfish's mouth, smaller goldies should be berfectly safe with larger goldfish.
> 
> The huge no-no is to house commons with fancies, in which case the fancies will ultimately be outcompeted for food, get beaten up from being on the recieving end of a goldfish mating, or have their eyes eaten out. Since commons need about 80g per fish you might do best to either put them in a friend's pond or make a small pond for them as a summer project. Ponds are so easy to keep nowadays... I have seen them in full-sized backyards, on patios, on porches (the deck, not the luxury car  ) and even inside houses. Many people opt to get those huge rubbermaid watering troughs.
> 
> Andy yes, you should definitely slowly add the fish... bacteria reproduce REALLY quickly so even one per day would probably be reasonable.




80 gallons per fish?

On the larger scale I've heard 20 gallons per fish, and it's seemed more common to hear 20 gallons and 10 gallons for each additional, preferably with an 18" or longer depth so they have enough room, haven't heard anywhere around 80 gallons though.

Unfortunately a 125 gallon right now is on the high end of my abilities, a pond would be something I would like to do in the next few years if possible, but not something I can count on being a definite.

Would it really be too small to have four goldfish in an 80 gallon tank(since that's around what I'm most preferably looking for)


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Honestly everyone has there own opinions but then again commoms are a highly variable fish as far as size goes... I mean they get from a minimum of 1 foot to a maximum of 2 feet which is a huge difference as far as fish go. I wanted to put some in a small pond so from what I understood you would want about 80g but I'm sure thats debatable. I would say go for the largest tank possible, hold off on buying any more commons and let the current ones mature. Then you can see how 'hard' they will be on the filter at full size.

Also if you are considering a pond withint he next few years, the question is even if the tank is too small, will the goldies be fine there for a few years. For instance a goldfish may put on a foot in the first year due to youthful growth spurts and the rate of growth may taper after that to a few inches a year. So in the event that its only going to be for a few years a tank may suffice as temporary housing.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

kelly528 said:


> Honestly everyone has there own opinions but then again commoms are a highly variable fish as far as size goes... I mean they get from a minimum of 1 foot to a maximum of 2 feet which is a huge difference as far as fish go. I wanted to put some in a small pond so from what I understood you would want about 80g but I'm sure thats debatable. I would say go for the largest tank possible, hold off on buying any more commons and let the current ones mature. Then you can see how 'hard' they will be on the filter at full size.
> 
> Also if you are considering a pond withint he next few years, the question is even if the tank is too small, will the goldies be fine there for a few years. For instance a goldfish may put on a foot in the first year due to youthful growth spurts and the rate of growth may taper after that to a few inches a year. So in the event that its only going to be for a few years a tank may suffice as temporary housing.


Okay, so then I guess my next thought would be, if I skip the fourth goldfish, but still got some weather loaches, I'm still not sure if theres a difference on tank size since they hide in the bottom as opposed to the goldies staying mostly in the middle and top, would it be overcrowded for the 3 goldfish and a few weather loaches in an 80 gallon?

And would their growth still be stunted by the size since there is more in the tank?

And would it be possible to house them together for maybe a year while everyone's growing, and then seperate the loaches into their own 55 or larger tank in a year or so down the road?


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

If you're only having them in there for a year stunting shouldn't be severe, since at that point they will still naturally be quite small in proportion to the tank.

If you want weather loaches I would squeeze 'em in while the fish are small.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

In the future it seems like even a 125 would be too small for three goldfish though?

It seems like over 40 gallons a piece would be enough, and with 18 inches as the smallest distance between windows I would think it would be okay for the, although I suppose if they got past 14 inches it would be a little cramped, but is 40 gallons really not enough per goldfish?


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

As far as I have read, unfortunately yes. I also keep hearing a rule a lot of 3-5g for every inch of adult common goldfish. Unfortunately with commons the range of mature sizes is so wide that this could mean you need 60g for one fish or 120g depending on how big it gets! 

I'm no expert on commons, hopefully someone with experience keeping them in aquariums will step in... if not there is a user on Ultimate Bettas, (RandomWiktor) who has lots of experience keeping commons indoors (she takes in unwanted goldfish) and may be able to advise you.


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## Castro235 (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, unfortunately right now getting any bigger than a 125 is far out of the question, and even over a 80 is probably out of my range, but hopefully the tank I do get is only a year or less home for them.

If they do end up getting up to a size where they're a close fit I'll see if I can donate them to my local fish store or something else's outdoor pond, but hopefully I can get something adequate for them.

Kind of attatched to the little guys, but I'd hate to be their down coming in the end.

If I can't end up getting anything big enough once they're larger I suppose I'll move towards tropical fish like tetras and such so I can give them the space they need, but hopefully I can keep these guys fairly well, the more and more I read into all of this the sadder I get when I go to the local stores and see 30 or so 10 inch and larger goldfish in a 120 gallon tank.

Guess I'll just be doing my best to keep them happy once I find out which tank I'm able to get.


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