# tropical tank 45 litres... any advice gratefully recieved!!



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

hi, ive just joined here, so sorry if i am posting in the wrong place or anything!

im looking for advice really

i recently have set up a tropical tank. 45 litres, 50cm x 30 x 30
it has a heater, light, good internal filter, 5 live plants an ornament and gravel

i have been slowly introducing some fish

i currently have two tetras one is neon, the other some sort of red breed. they tend to stick together
a female swordtail, which i've read is fine by itself
and a glass catfish, which i am a bit worried as i've read it also likes to shoal.

i would soon like to introduce some other fish, but im not sure what is sutable exactly, and how many

i would possibly be interested in a male fighting fish (i know this has to be added last) maybe an angel fish or some more tetras perhaps a golden apple snail too. i'd love something perhaps quite fancy in a way

im all a bit unsure of how much and what i can still add???

and also, would like to ask about feeding? i currently just feed all the fish flakes, but hear some like live food? particularly the glass catfish? please help me with this!



any advice would be extremely helpful!! thanks


----------



## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

if you wanna keep the tetra you will have to add 5 more neons thats the minimum required as for angel fish with betta.it's bad for the betta as angelfish like to nip just like swordtails.add a few more glass fish and you'll be at the max for the aquarium.


----------



## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

Hello and Welcome to TFK!


Your 45L tank is approximately 10G, I'll go off of gallons since I'm more comfortable with it! 

Your tetras, and any tetras for that matter should be kept in groups of atleast 6. Tetras are shoaling fish, they are better in numbers, they prefer bigger groups as it makes them feel more safe. For starters, I would definetly pick up some more neon tetras. Do you have a picture of the fish which you've labeled as a "red breeed" tetra? It could be a number of things....but if it is in fact a tetra, it should be kept in groups of atleast 6, so keep that in mind. I would also up the number of your glass catfish to atleast 6 as well....problem you're going to run into is that there is now three groups of 6 fish and your female sword tail. That isn't exactly overload, but 19 fish in a 10G tank might be pushing things.

Your plants help to filter your tank, what kind of filter are you running?

On the food, I feed my fish a mixture of flakes, and other freeze dried foods and veggies.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

hi, thanks for your replies both of you

in answer to the first one, yeah i t had thought that they angel fish wouldnt be suitable with the fighting fish for that reason, but thought i'd check. is this the same as with tetras though?

i probably osund completely like i havent got a clue what im talking about, excuse me! i am a begginer i've only had colwater fish before. but i have done plenty of research, and am now just looking for advice on sticking the rest of the tank

my filter is aqua-el fan 1 plus. im unable to get a picture at the moment, as the tetra moves too fast each time i try! it's an orangy colour, more than bright red or anything. it has some sort of almost bloated stomach underneath. i cant seem to find what breed it is, but i am convinced it is a tetra, as it has the smae fins as the neon, and they almost seem to be starting a shoal, even though there is only two of them. thank you for your advice so far. you said about getting 6 of each of the tetras? i may be wrong, but i read somewhere that tetras will also shoal with other tetra breeds. what do you know about this? and as for the fighting fish not being suitable for begginers, i've been told differently as long as they are added last? sorry if it seems im disagreeing with you im not i'm just letting you know what i have been told so far. i was looking to set up a community tank with quantity rather than size, and a great variety of fish. have is started compeltely wrong?

thanks for your help! hope to hear a reply
josh


----------



## LisaC144 (Oct 22, 2009)

Also a quick note on the Angelfish. Angelfish need a minimum tank size of 30g when young and 55g (although I think larger) when full grown. You will have major issues putting an Angelfish in a 10g tank.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

hi
thanks, yeah i think angelfish are completely off the cards!
but still confused to what i can put in :S


----------



## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

A picture of that other tetra sure would help for some ID purposes. Perhaps you could peruse our fish profiles, by clicking the big green link at the top of the page. Our tetras are located in the "characins" section, byron has done a great job adding a lot of them, perhaps your fish will be in there. 

On issue of differnt tetras schoaling together. I personally have never seen this, however my black neon tetras will school with my blue neon tetras. (is that what you meant?) I have differnent groups of tetras in my tank and the neons do not school with the serpae tetras.

The fighting fish, I know next to nothing about....I never said they're were suitable for beginner fish, I just don't know much about them, so I'll let someone else comment.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

thanks for suggesting the profiles. i have indeed identifued it to be an ember tetra. so that helps.
with the different tetras schoaling, i read it on a neo tetra profile page somewhere. i think it said they are a schoaling fish, but may be happy to schoal with other breeds of tetra.

and no it was the person above your first post who i think commented on the fighting fish more?

but yes im still very very confused to what i can put in now, where i've gone wrong etc.

anymore help or advice? :S
thank you very much!


----------



## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

bettas are ok for beginners but single male in a community tank is the first rule.second rule no nipping fish and thats about it.they arent fussy fish and are easy to take care of and they only fight among males of their kind so adding it first or last in a community tank is irrelevant. the neons will be ok in a betta tank as long as it has a few plants in it.quantity of fish depends on the size of the aquarium and a great variety of fish depends on the species you cant have one and not the other a balance is what we want to achieve in an aquarium. too much fish and too little space and your have a very messy tank and disease that will make fish keeping a real hassle. to much variety and you might have dead fish in the tank all the time. if you want you can get a betta as a center piece add extra neons and give away the glass fish.


----------



## LisaC144 (Oct 22, 2009)

I must comment on the betta. SOME peple do try to mix a betta in a community tank but it is never advised. Betta's personalities vary greatly among each one. Some will tolerate other fish,while others would not. It is always 'advised' to keep betta's single. If you want tank mates for a betta, what is usually recommended are snails, shrimp, otos, and pygmy cories. I personally would not risk adding a betta in with neons, although some people report success with it.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

yeah, i dont think i will get a betta, and definately not an angel fish

so can any body help me continue stocking the tank? obviously i will do it slowly over a period of time

any idea what to do with the neon tetra, ember tetra and glass catfish? everyone says these need shoaling, is there any way i can get around it? like other fish they will sort of shoal with or just getting a couple of each? any suggestions here would be great. i am most fond of the glass catfish, despite their behaviour!

also, any other suggestions iof what else could be stocked in here too? any combination suggestions, that would be the best. or do you think i should give away some of the fish i already have?

thank you all!


----------



## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

with a few plants they will be fine.the bettas now a days show aggression to their own kind and not towards others that are not considered a threat or rival male .i wouldn't worry about the betta personally. if you don't want the betta add cory's as the ember and neons are middle swimmers some food will find it's way to the bottom of the tank and the cory's should take care of that.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

okay thanks again for more advise

so would you say my options could include

6 neon tetras
6 glass catfish
3 cory's
1 swordtale
1 ember tetra

i've completely lost how much i can fit in this tank now...
its 45litres with plants, which i will get more and a good internal filter

would this above be too many fish?
can anybody notice any faults?
could i fit any more in? i'd love something quite colourful again or something strange o with fancy fins or tails

any other combination suggestions? would anything else be suitable for my tank?


----------



## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

i would say 4 neons 4 ember tetra,4 cory's, 4 glass fish skip the sword if theres space add guppies and males only as female breed like crazy


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

okay, this looks good, so i can get away with four of those each in 45 litre.

okay,, the swordtail is already in there...

but thanks for those suggestions, i only added the fish i have atnthe moment recently, when should i start adding the others and it what order?


----------



## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

if the sword stays the the guppies should not be added.if it's fully cycled then add the neons first followed then by the glass cat fish about say a week later to let the filter get used to the added bio load.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

okay, well i have to keep the sword as there is no where else it can go, so say in a couple of weeks i go get the neons, then the glass, then the embers.

then i introduce the cory's? could i have anything instead of the cory's? just trying to keep my options open as there is a lot of fish to choose from! so as long as i know what i cn have i can make the choice if you get me?

thanks again!


----------



## JohnnyD44 (Dec 5, 2008)

your tetras and corries need to be kept in groups of atleast 6 as stated before by several posters. 6 in the minimum group size recommended to keep them feeling safe.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

thats what i had had said to me before...


arghgh now im so confused. sorry about this! and thank you to everyone for their help so far


okay so i have a 45 litre 50 x 30 x30 cm tank with good internal filter many live plants gravel etc

it's at 26 degrees c

i was looking to set up a small community tank and i know i was limited by space. i love angel fish but know i cant have one with this space. i loved glass catfish and wanted a fighting fish, aswell as other communtiy fish.

so i bought a neon tetra ember tetra and glass catfish without realising they all needed schoaling in large numbers. and a female swordtail

i dont mind having one or two small shoals, as long as i can have other fish too.

what do you think from this are my best bets? get rid of some fish? which ones? keep which ones? and what fish can i also get, instead of bettas and angelfish

thank you all again


----------



## sik80 (Mar 16, 2010)

this site below helps you approximately calculate your stocking levels. I've set up the page for a tank of your dimensions and added the fish you already have to it. You can see the current stocking level is 67% plus lots of other info about what you water parameters should be etc.. have a play around and see what you might be able to keep

http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor....AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

thanks, but the link doesnt work :S


----------



## sik80 (Mar 16, 2010)

link seems to work ok for me. try this instead:

http://www.aqadvisor.com/

you'll need to put in the dimensions of your tank first


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

cant seem to get it to work for me...
but thanks

could i ask someone for more advice?
what if i were to get rid of the glass catfish someone on another forum said 45 litres is too small for them  and the ember tetra, shoal the neons in 5 or 6 keep the swordtail. how would that be? and then what other NON shoaling fish could i add in for variety?


----------



## sik80 (Mar 16, 2010)

that sounds much better.


----------



## sik80 (Mar 16, 2010)

how about a dwarf gourami - click on the name to see the profile


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

yeah
i accept i made mistakes here. i researched so much about everything! everything except shoaling! i didnt even think about it
but thanks all for your help so far

so if i had a small shoal of neons and a female swordtail, what else could i add in eventually? some exciting fish NON shoaling fish perhaps quite strange ones. i'd love a lot of variety


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

the dwarf gourami doesnt sound a good choice, it says can become aggressive to bright coloured fish and i will have neons and the swordtail is bright orange...

what other choices could there be?


----------



## sik80 (Mar 16, 2010)

you're quite limited by the size of your tank about fish you can keep unfortunately. i think small gouramis (dwarf or honey) can be kept with small tetras but maybe someone else can confirm this?

take your time with any decision anyway. i took 3 months of reading forums before i got my tank!


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Hi Josh and welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.

Well, I've read through this thread, and I'd like to offer some general advice on the problems I see.

We are all limited by our aquarium size as to what fish we can keep. Fish are living creatures that have certain requirements, and each species can be similar or different in this. But if these requirements are not met, the fish will be under stress and stress causes health problems; it wears down the immune system quickly, causing the fish to be susceptible to all sorts of issues it would otherwise not have. So it is very important to know what the fish you "want" need, and be able to provide that, or look at other fish.

A small tank like yours is going to limit the type of fish you can have, and then the number. As you have already learned in this thread, angels, gourami, glass catfish are not possible. That leaves you with small fish, which are usually going to be shoaling fish; this means they must be in a group or they will not be healthy--or happy, and the two are related with fish.

Ember tetra need a group of 6 or more. That is a perfect fish for a planted 45 litre aquarium. But, what are your water parameters (hardness, pH)? Ember tetra are wild caught fish and they need soft and slightly acidic water. A swordtail is the opposite, it needs harder basic (alkaline) water. You should not mix the two, as one is going to be fine and the other not, which means more stress and sick fish. It is better to have a successful aquarium than one where you have fish regularly diseased and dying, that is very frustrating.

Neons also need a group of 6, and six neons in a 45 litre tank is getting full. A group of 6 neons and 6 embers would work, with maybe 3 Corydoras catfish for the bottom. That's it. But this means your water has to be appropriate.

If you want more fish, they will have to be small fish; but there are several possibilities. The Embers, one of the dwarf rasbora fish like Boraras brigittae, the dwarf cory species like Corydoras pygmaeus, a group of pygmy sparkling gourami, scarlet badis, ...there are quite a few, these are all shoaling fish, checkout the profiles on these and see what you think. But again, these are all requiring slightly acidic water to slightly basic.

Hope this helps a bit.

Byron.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

yes yes thank you, i will get a small shoal for the neons. and the glass catfish i would really like to keep, it seems fine with the others. someone said if i just get a partner it would be fine? unfortunately i already have the sword so unless there is anyone near me, i am in warwickshire on the border near leicestshire and northamptonshire, and would like the sword i will just have to keep it and see how it goes. im going to just relax a bit i think and monitor the fish. i should point out that i am an animal rght activist so no need to worry about the welfare of fish or any other animals with me! i did so much research, jsut didnt think about shoaling and non shoaling! i will also look into getting a small bottom feeder fish too, such as the ones you suggested. i am also interested in the possiblity now of a micro crab? what do you think?

so my stocking could be (once complete over a period of time):

5 neon tetras
1 micro crab
1 female swordtail
2 glass catfish
1 bottom feeder fish (such as the ones you suggested, maybe two if they require a partner)

now what are the main issues here? (hopefully none!)

and also it was recent that i added these fish i have so when should i add the next ones? i intend on adding the other neons for shoaling. should i add all four in one go?

i will let you know i have been on many forums asking the same things, and this has been the most helpful! thanks all!


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

You really do not have room for glass catfish. According to my research they must be kept in a group of 6 or they may refuse to eat and pine away. You don't want that. Sometimes the store will exchange fish for you; or another aquarist in the area.

Add the 4 neons next. You have plants, so that will be fine. Then decide what sort of bottom fish you want; the Corydoras I mentioned also need a group, but 3 would be OK, or 6 of the dwarf species. Have a look at the various species in our profiles under catfish, choose the scientific name listing and all the Corydoras species will be together.

Byron.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

right okay, excellent advice. gutted i cant keep the glass though!
perhaps in the future with a bigger tank...
okay so i will take them back or find somewhere for them
then add 4 neons
then look for bottom feeding catfish you mentioned and add them in about a month?
then it is fully stockd with np space left you would say?


----------



## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

joshuaedgington said:


> right okay, excellent advice. gutted i cant keep the glass though!
> perhaps in the future with a bigger tank...
> okay so i will take them back or find somewhere for them
> then add 4 neons
> ...


I don't think the Glass Catfish is in our profiles yet, I'll work on adding it; but a 36-inch tank (about a 30g and up) is recommended for a group of 6 glass cats.

You mentioned lots of plants, so if that is the case, the 4 neons and then the 3 corys (?) in a couple days. If you really have lots of plants, all at once is OK, but I hesitate suggesting that because I don't know what you mean exactly by lots of plants. Plants use ammonium from ammonia produced by the fish, but there is a limit as to how much ammonium/ammonia, so best be on the safe side.

So, that gives you 6 neons and 3 cory cats in a 45 litre (12g) tank. As you have plants, I would consider another group of something smallish and not too active as there is no "swimming" room. For something unusual, a pencilfish like Nannostomus eques that swims on an oblique angle, six of these would be nice in a planted 12g. Or 6 hatchets, marble would be best, for the top? Read the profiles and see what you think.


----------



## joshuaedgington (Aug 11, 2010)

okay yeah so i'dhave neons, some sort of cory's, im gonna look for them lots of plants and i have the swordtail so i might as well keep that. then pencilfish i really like them actually! so might get them. but if i look around at the fish sho and find other things i prefer, what could i add instead of pencil fish?

does anyone think a crab is a good/bad idea?


----------

