# 120g Angel Tank



## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm planning up my dream tank, have the equipment all nailed down along with an idea of what I'll do for live plants (lots).

Now comes the question of what to put in the tank... that's the hard part in my opinion.

I have soft water (GH 25 ppm, KH ~40ppm) and with driftwood, my pH is ~6.8 (tap is 7.4-7.6 but water supply says it can range up to 8).

My 'must have' fish that I'm making this for will be a school of Angelfish. The tank is a 120g 48"x24"x24", filter will probably be a Rena XP3. Lighting is less firm at this point, either a dual 48" T8 or I may do a custom concoction of my own using high power LEDs. Substrate will be sand.

So, this is what I have so far:

Scalare Angelfish x6
Diamond Tetra x10
Congo Tetra x10
Bristlenose Pleco x1
Pepper Cory x6

Comments/Opinions? I kind of want to add loaches, but I doubt I have room. I was thinking six Black Kuhli Loach. Reading over the profiles the one for angels say loaches are good tank mates, but reading profiles on the loaches most of them say they are fin nippers so... I'm not sure what good choices are for angels.

I'm also considering only having a single tetra species (or or the other) and just having a larger school.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

While I can't speak for any of the other fish (other than personal preference about schools), I can speak for the black kuhli loach. I have kept them for the past 5 years, and they are not nippy. It is the deep-bodied loaches like the clown loach or yoyo loach that can get nippy. In fact I rarely ever see my _Pangio_ loaches except at feeding time. I would go with either loaches or corys for a substrate fish as the larger the group, the more active both species are. 

One extra note: if you do decide to go for _Pangio_ loaches, I would get the kuhli loach over the black kuhli loach as the former is much hardier.

And if you want more info on loaches you can check out Loaches Online


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I concur with Izzy on the loaches. If you want one of the Botia species, Botia kubotai would probably be fine. I have a group of these in with some Congo Tetra and there is no suggestion of nipping, and I see that in the profile i mention gourami as tankmates which I wouldn't if nipping was in the cards.

On the Congo, a truly beautiful tetra, but very active. Mine hold races every day, 2 or 3, and sometimes 4 of the males will line up and charge down the tank, fins flared, then circle each other. Quite a site. But I would probably not add angelfish due to their activity level. Diamond Tetra are not quite so active, if memory serves me; I had a group of them back in 1997 or so.

Some (but not all) of the Hyphessobrycon species will work with angelfish, and here you can add some nice red colour and keep that disk shape. H. roberti is my favourite, then there's H. rosaceus. Hemigrammus pulcher is another good match, if you can find them. The Hyphessobrycon tend to remain in the lower third, while H. pulcher is always just above mid range in the water column. Some hatchetfish for the surface perhaps?


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

The Botia kubotai look nice, and they should at $33 a pop hehe, too rich for my blood I'm afraid. I'll try and see if I could get the regular Kuhli Loach, I like how they look better than the black but that's all I've been able to find to buy(so far).

I was actually thinking I need a top fish. I didn't realize Hatchet fish were, so maybe get some Marble Hatchets in place of the Congo Tetras.

I'm always afraid of going overboard hehe. I might be able to find Flame Tetras in the area.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

:lol: Byron, your description of your Congo tetras made me laugh. They sound like an entertaining bunch! Racehorses in a tank! 

Geomancer, I have trouble finding any loaches where I am. I have seen the regular kuhlis (_Pangio kuhli_) sold on Aquabid for a very fair price.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Geomancer said:


> The Botia kubotai look nice, and they should at $33 a pop hehe, too rich for my blood I'm afraid. I'll try and see if I could get the regular Kuhli Loach, I like how they look better than the black but that's all I've been able to find to buy(so far).
> 
> I was actually thinking I need a top fish. I didn't realize Hatchet fish were, so maybe get some Marble Hatchets in place of the Congo Tetras.
> 
> I'm always afraid of going overboard hehe. I might be able to find Flame Tetras in the area.


If you're not set on loaches (I had thought from previously that you were), I would stay with corys. There are so many, and they suit angelfish. I have over 30 corys in my 5-foot 115g, some dozen species. Whiptail Catfish would work too, with corys. And Farlowella, another interesting fish.

Don't be in a rush, sometimes fish are seasonal (wild caught always are). I have myself made the mistake of buying something just because i wanted to add some fish, and later regretted it. Don't mean problem fish, though i've had those too, but just fillers and then along comes something I really wanted.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Yeah, I'm not too dead set on anything except the Angelfish.

I started with the corys because I wasn't sure on what loaches would be suitable. I plan on having the water at about 79 degrees or so since Angels prefer warmer water, which I believe is high/extreme edge for corys and the whiptail catfish.

So I guess now I'm at:

Scalare Angelfish x6
Diamond Tetra x10
Flame Tetra*** x10
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/congo-tetra/ Marble Hatchetfish*** x10
Bristlenose Pleco x1
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/pepper-cory/ Kuhli Loach x6 (maybe Angelicus Loach)


I mentioned the Angelicus Loach to my wife, and their $33 price tag. She seams to think she saw them at Petsmart so I'll have to take a look next time I'm in one. The $33 was from Aquarium Fish: Tropical Freshwater Fish and Saltwater Fish for Home Aquariums If a local store has them for a resonalbe price (maybe the $33 is for wild caught) they become a possibility.

***Profile says these are only 1.5 inches in size ... would that be too small for the angels? I know they can get a bit ... hungry if something fits in their mouth  Silver Hatchetfish are an inch larger, but can't say I like the color.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> I started with the corys because I wasn't sure on what loaches would be suitable. I plan on having the water at about 79 degrees or so since Angels prefer warmer water, which I believe is high/extreme edge for corys and the whiptail catfish.


Unless you intend getting wild-caught angelfish, they will be better at a slightly lower temperature, around 77F. It is only the wild angels that need 82F and up.

So this allows for corys and Whiptail; my 30+ corys and 4 whiptails (including a trio of those red ones) are in my 115g which is 77-78F and I've kept these fish like this for many years.



> I mentioned the Angelicus Loach to my wife, and their $33 price tag. She seams to think she saw them at Petsmart so I'll have to take a look next time I'm in one. The $33 was from Aquarium Fish: Tropical Freshwater Fish and Saltwater Fish for Home Aquariums If a local store has them for a resonalbe price (maybe the $33 is for wild caught) they become a possibility.


I think I paid $12 each for my Botia kubotai. Don't see them often. If you're in the US, have a look at online sites. AnubiasDesign owned by Mark Denaro is reliable and they get a lot of interesting fish in season.



> Profile says these are only 1.5 inches in size ... would that be too small for the angels? I know they can get a bit ... hungry if something fits in their mouth  Silver Hatchetfish are an inch larger, but can't say I like the color.


You are starting fresh, so presumably the angelfish will be relatively small. Stock the tank with everything else first (tetra, hatchets, corys, etc) and add the angels last. Fish growing up with other fish are less likely to look at them as food; I've never read of angels going after hatchets, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of course. They tend to be more problematic with the long torpedo-shaped fish like neons, cardinals, etc.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

I've been thinking about this more as the time approaches. I did some measuring and did find a place I could fit a 125g in.

That's better than a 120g isn't it (forget the extra 5 gallons...)? It has a little extra surface area which I think is more important for the fish, but it isn't a huge difference (or is it?). 1296 sq in versus 1152 sq in.

However, it comes with two concerns. One is it is in our bedroom, how loud is a typical canister filter?

And two, it is about twice as far from a faucet ... how far can you make a python work (or similar)?

For the fish selected above, would they be happier in a 6ft x 1.5ft tank versus a 4ft x 2ft tank?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Geomancer said:


> I've been thinking about this more as the time approaches. I did some measuring and did find a place I could fit a 125g in.
> 
> That's better than a 120g isn't it (forget the extra 5 gallons...)? It has a little extra surface area which I think is more important for the fish, but it isn't a huge difference (or is it?). 1296 sq in versus 1152 sq in.
> 
> ...


On the tank size, 6 feet is definitely better than 4 feet for the angelfish. And loaches too. The width at 24 inches will jut into the room a lot; my 5-foot and 4-foot tanks are all 18 inches width.

Canister filter: Eheim is absolutely silent. I have a fish room with three canisters on tanks, two Eheim and one Rena XP3. The smaller tanks are on sponge filters with an air pump. When I have the air pump off during water changes, I cannot hear the Eheims at all. And in my former home I had just the three large tanks with three Eheims and never knew they were on unless I looked to see the water movement at the spray bar. Eheim is simply the best filter there is.

I bought the Rena two years ago because I wanted another canister and no one here carried Eheim at that time. It works fine as a filter, but it can be heard. Not much, but if this were in my sleeping room, I would hear it. I wouldn't hear the Eheims.

Pythons have hose extensions in 25-foot lengths. You just unscrew whichever end and attach. I have a 75-foot Python to get from my laundry room sink to the fish room. You get some exercise scurrying back and forth:lol: but it works fine. Just have to watch the filling, to avoid overflows.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

My Rena xp3 is like 2 feet from my head when I sleep. I would call it a quiet filter for the most part. Mine does not fit under my stand for my 55 gallon so its probably louder then usual since there are no noise blocks. Being a college student my solution to this is to just bury it with cloths. There are always like 3 large towels or an equivalent amount of clothing piled on top of it. As long as it is buried it does not bother me when I sleep;-).


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Looking at Diamonds, I'm confused (as always hehe).

The profile here for Diamond Tetra matches what I see elsewhere (for example Diamond Tetra ? Moenkhausia pittieri) but they look nothing like what I see online when you go to buy them (for example here Diamond Tetra).


Is this just the difference between adult and juvenile? I really like the ones featured in the profile here... the ones in the online store ... not so much. They look really small though, so I'm thinking maybe it is just a picture of a juvenile and they'll grow into the larger looking size shown in the profiles.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Geomancer said:


> Looking at Diamonds, I'm confused (as always hehe).
> 
> The profile here for Diamond Tetra matches what I see elsewhere (for example Diamond Tetra ? Moenkhausia pittieri) but they look nothing like what I see online when you go to buy them (for example here Diamond Tetra).
> 
> ...


As noted in our profile, this fish is usually seen as juveniles in stores, and it is rather drab and difficult to sex. As it matures, it blossoms in to the beauty it is, in soft water with lots of plants. If you get young fish and can't tell, get a good group, say 7+ and you should have male/female.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Humm, I see all my links were removed so it dosen't make much sense now.

What I was meaning is, the ones I see when buying look much thinner (vertically) with short fins and are more like a neon tetra, but silver in color. While the ones I see here in the profile are quite a bit thicker (vertically) and have long fins. I greatly prefer that long fin look.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Geomancer said:


> Humm, I see all my links were removed so it dosen't make much sense now.
> 
> What I was meaning is, the ones I see when buying look much thinner (vertically) with short fins and are more like a neon tetra, but silver in color. While the ones I see here in the profile are quite a bit thicker (vertically) and have long fins. I greatly prefer that long fin look.


The profile photos are mature fish. This species, like some others such as the Congo Tetra, when juvenile are scarcely recongnizable as the same fish. Those links did actually work, but only when I did a response post, so i was able to see the photos; they are juvenile fish.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks, that's good to know. They really do look so much better as an adult!

My next internal debate is over the Flame Tetra or Pepper Cory ... It would be nice to have some red in the middle, but I wouldn't want it to be too crowded either with the Angels and Diamonds. I'm still leaning towards the Flame Tetra.

6x Scalare Angelfish
10x Marble Hatchet 
10x Diamond Tetra 
10x Flame Tetra 
8x Kuhli Loach 
6x Otocinclus 
1x Bristlenose Pleco

I'm pretty sure that will take me to the limit, 51 fish in total.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Geomancer said:


> Thanks, that's good to know. They really do look so much better as an adult!
> 
> My next internal debate is over the Flame Tetra or Pepper Cory ... It would be nice to have some red in the middle, but I wouldn't want it to be too crowded either with the Angels and Diamonds. I'm still leaning towards the Flame Tetra.
> 
> ...


That should work, fish wise. I would myself have corys instead of kuhlis, which may not be seen much. Corys will add interest to the bottom.

Do you want the otos and BN because you really want them as fish, or are you thinking algae?


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Fish, I know they are not good for algae.

I really like Pleco's. I'd actually really like a Common Pleco, but due to their size and likely destruction of the plant life as the monster roars through the tank, I compromise for the smaller Bristlenose.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Geomancer said:


> Fish, I know they are not good for algae.
> 
> I really like Pleco's. I'd actually really like a Common Pleco, but due to their size and likely destruction of the plant life as the monster roars through the tank, I compromise for the smaller Bristlenose.


OK. Wait for some algae before introuding these. Otos especially are wild caught and nearly starved when they reach stores. If introduced to a tank with some live algae they will settle in much better. Introduced to a "clean" environment usually means death to them. They need their natural food to get them back to scratch, then they will adapt to sinking foods.

There are some lovely plecos in the Hypancistrus genus, some of which max out at 4-5 inches. There are some beauties becoming available, though males are territorial. So are the BN for that matter. With lots of bogwood and plants, a 4-foot will work for 3 or 4.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Well, made one major step forward.

The tank is bought, a 125 gallon for $360 (ouch!). But at $50 off I jumped on it even though I can't set it up yet.

So the next steps are to get the floors done (that 125 is never going to be moved...) and the stand built.

Then the real fun begins =)

As I had mentioned in another thread, it comes with two Aqueon 36" light fixtures that really only have 24" bulbs. So ultra low light. Might have to build a wood canopy and get two full 36" shop lights. It also came with the Aqueon versatop 100 glass covers. The same tank anywhere else, which do not come with lights, is $493, so I think I got a good deal


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## jaxxmann99 (Feb 27, 2012)

Lot's of replies, and I am way the newbie here... 

Given that keep it simple.

Make the bed and they will lay in it. I would say stay away from big tetras like congos. whiptail cat I think is okay.Tetras maybe rummynose or even red eye's. 

If you overthink it, they will know.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Bought a 48" dual T8 fixture, technically a shop light but housed similar to aquarium fixtures (lights won't sit on glass).

Think this will be enough? It would leave a foot on each end without a direct light overhead. Not sure if enough would spill over to keep the ends growing. They had a couple 24" fixtures, but they have to be hanging, no reflectors to keep the tubes off the glass. I'm going to keep looking though.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

I've also decided to drop the Khuli Loach, and in their place have 12 cory catfish, a second bristlenose (hopefully 1 male 1 female), and possibly a whiptail catfish.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Anyone have any comments on the 48" dual T8 fixture?

I also want to confirm that Harlequin Rasbora are okay with Angels? I saw them in a fish store and rather liked them. They look so small though, but that might just be because they're juveniles. I should think they are not too small to be considered food, profile says they get to be up to 2 inches.

I haven't been able to find Diamond Tetras anywhere locally.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Cherry Barb was another consideration, I'm not sure if they would nip fins.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

On the light, that will be plenty.

On the rasbora, yes, this genus is mentioned in the angelfish profile as suitable.

On the barb, I wouldn't.


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## Quantum (Jul 23, 2011)

for something a bit more geographically authentic, something like Rosy Tetra would be nice, there are several similar species that would work, but *not* your Serpae


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Byron said:


> On the light, that will be plenty.
> 
> On the rasbora, yes, this genus is mentioned in the angelfish profile as suitable.
> 
> On the barb, I wouldn't.


Thanks. What is it about the Cherry Barb that wouldn't work? I know Tiger Barb are nippers.



Quantum said:


> for something a bit more geographically authentic, something like Rosy Tetra would be nice, there are several similar species that would work, but *not* your Serpae


No way will I have Serpae Tetra in this tank. I have them in a 20g.




I'm pretty sure I'll go with the Diamond's for sure. It's always the devil in the details and I kept adjusting what I want. So many options... I need more tanks! I've also considered just doubling the Diamonds school to 20, and not having another mid-level swimmer to go with the Angels. I haven't seen tanks with larger than normal (in the aquarium) schools to know if they look good and have interesting behavior versus two schools of 10.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Geomancer said:


> I'm pretty sure I'll go with the Diamond's for sure. It's always the devil in the details and I kept adjusting what I want. So many options... I need more tanks! I've also considered just doubling the Diamonds school to 20, and not having another mid-level swimmer to go with the Angels. I haven't seen tanks with larger than normal (in the aquarium) schools to know if they look good and have interesting behavior versus two schools of 10.


Just my personal taste, but I would stay with characins as a match with angels. And I woudl have two groups which wold make a nice contrasting display. The Roberts Tetra or Rosy Tetra would work well, adding some colour. Plus the diamonds of course.


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