# Newbie cycling question..



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi all and might I say what a great forum you have here!

I have a brand new 64 gallon tank that has been running for a week with a few live plants in it. Today I bought 6 pearl danios for the cycling process.

I am not to clued into what im supposed to be looking for next and how long the process takes?

Im aware the ammonia should go up and then it should drop off and the nitrite will go up and then that will drop off and nitrate goes up and then a 50% water change and the tank is cycled?

Im confused about how many water changes I should be doing at this stage and when I take the parameters tests what levels should I be reading to let me know to do a water change?

If someone could clarify this for me that would be a great help to me!

Thanks so much

Oh yea current params: ammonia 0-0.25ppm, nitrate 0, nitrite 0, PH 7.4


----------



## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Hello and welcome to Fishforum!

Test the water daily or at least every other day (before any water change). Try to keep the ammonia and/or nitrites under 0.5 ppm. If it tests at or above this do a water change. It sounds like you are using a liquid test kit hopefully? They're much more accurate than the test strips. Don't clean or change the filter cartridge until the tank is fully cycled. If it gets really gunked up gently swish the filter in some used tank water. The filter media is where the majority of your beneficial bacteria colonizes so you want to make sure it gets well established. The cycle process can vary in how long it takes but generally anywhere from 4-6 weeks or longer. Once your tank is fully cycled and you have steady readings of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some reading for nitrates you can switch to weekly water changes to keep your nitrates low.


----------



## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with what jeaninel said 100%.

Any idea what's going in the tank once the cycle is complete?


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Great explanation Jean, thanks ever so much! I have a good idea about what kind of tank im gonna do.. probabaly:

6 pearl danios (cycling fish)
20-24 rummy nose tetras
6-8 corys
6-8 otos
4 pearl gourami (3f m1)
2 german blue rams (1m 1f)


----------



## kritas (Feb 29, 2008)

So you know...
Those Pearl Danios will lead a life of suffering for putting them through the cycling process... It will burn their gills and they will never be able to breathe properly...
Furthermore, since you find fish cycling a necessity, use Zebra danios... They are hardier than pearls and are the industry standard for fish cycling


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

kritas said:


> So you know...
> Those Pearl Danios will lead a life of suffering for putting them through the cycling process... It will burn their gills and they will never be able to breathe properly...
> Furthermore, since you find fish cycling a necessity, use Zebra danios... They are hardier than pearls and are the industry standard for fish cycling


They wont suffer too much because I will do daily water changes and check parameters all the time.. They will do a hell of a lot better than the millions of fish that are thrown into tanks by people with absolutely zero knowledge of fish keeping! They will also do a lot better than the billions of fish that are caught and eaten every year


----------



## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Keep in mind that finding female German blue rams can be very difficult so be sure you can sex them.


----------



## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

Have you ever seen Asian Rummy Nose? I recently saw them for first time. I think they are gorgeous. Some lfs will call Asian Rummynose Tetra but I'm sure it is not a Tetra since it is missing adipose fin which is characteristic of Family Characidae. I believe they are some sort Cyprinids ( Rasbora ).
As far as German Blue Rams, if not sure how to sex them, one way is to stand in front of tankful of German Blue Rams at lfs. In NYC, very common fish and some lfs has in great numbers in one tank. what you can look for is pair that may be bonding or mated, trying by taking over one corner of tank, chasing away all others.
If you happen to see such action, ask the staff to put the container toward the corner they have taken over and chase them into the container. This way you know you got the possibilities of increasing number of tank at home. If chased them with net, you may not get the same pair since will blend in with other Rams. Males are usually larger and more brilliant in colors. Dorsal Rays are another method to distinguish but it would'nt be easy w/ German Blue Ram. 
Another method is the shape of breeding tube (sharp for Male and blunt for female) when they are breeding. I can't seem to remember the term for it since I been out of breeding for a while and getting older.
LMK if you need any assitance. More than happy to share what I learned from my experiences with fish for about few decades.
Good luck and Enjoy the beauty.


----------



## Mikeshonda750f (Nov 27, 2008)

*plants....*

I wouldnt have cycled with the plants... and strongly feel its going to set you back.. regardless of what others say. Also, hold off on the water changes until you see a spike... 

"They wont suffer too much because I will do daily water changes and check parameters all the time.. "

Consistency is the key.. check it every other day... keep a fish count and watch where they are in the tank, take note of their movments ect., while your daily water changes may make life a tad easier on the danios, i feel its going to get you into a partial cycle, you'll add fish, and have mass chaos.


----------



## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

cerianthus said:


> Have you ever seen Asian Rummy Nose? I recently saw them for first time. I think they are gorgeous. Some lfs will call Asian Rummynose Tetra but I'm sure it is not a Tetra since it is missing adipose fin which is characteristic of Family Characidae. I believe they are some sort Cyprinids ( Rasbora ).


Adipose fins will not help indicate whether a fish is a cyprinid or a characin. Kerri tetras (_Inpaichthys kerri_) have adipose fins whereas emperor tetras (_Nematobrycon palmeri_) do not. They are called Asian rummynose tetras because their color patterns (not exactly the color itself) resemble closely to the three species of original rummynose tetras from South America. These ones are from Asia. I had them before. Females are basically colorless whereas males are available in orange, yellow or blue form (tips and head color). They are better known as _Sawbwa resplendens_. Always use scientific names as these are more valid than the common names.


----------



## jay2k6ie (Nov 21, 2008)

Mikeshonda750f said:


> I wouldnt have cycled with the plants... and strongly feel its going to set you back.. regardless of what others say. Also, hold off on the water changes until you see a spike...
> 
> "They wont suffer too much because I will do daily water changes and check parameters all the time.. "
> 
> Consistency is the key.. check it every other day... keep a fish count and watch where they are in the tank, take note of their movments ect., while your daily water changes may make life a tad easier on the danios, i feel its going to get you into a partial cycle, you'll add fish, and have mass chaos.


Ive never heard a bad thing said about cycling a tank with plants.. im actually getting some established filter floss from an experienced fish keeper on tuesday which should do a lot of good for my cycle


----------



## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

What you know, I've learned something new today from Lupin. That's why i love these Forums. It was my understanding adipose fins were characteristic of characins. I can't recollect that emperor tetra was missing adipose fin even though this was one of first Tetra to spawn for me. 
As far as Scientific Name is concerned, I do agree, like most African ciclids, dwarf cichlids, killies are known in SN in the trade. This will definitely avoid confusuion.
But I still believe so called Asian Rummy Nose is not a Tetra. It is definitely Cyprinids although i did not have the pleasure of keeping them. hopefully soon!!!


----------



## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

There shouldn't be any problems cycling with plants. The only foreseeable "problem" is that plants use up ammonia, nitrites and nitrates as they grow. This could cause your tank to cycle "silently", which means that the plants use up excess amounts of these chemicals so you never see them spike as you normally would during the cycle.


----------



## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

cerianthus said:


> But I still believe so called Asian Rummy Nose is not a Tetra. It is definitely Cyprinids although i did not have the pleasure of keeping them. hopefully soon!!!


I forgot to point that one out. Yes, they're definitely cyprinids. The only surefire way to distinguish them is characins have a set of teeth shown whereas cyprinids have teeth near their pharynx which means you really cannot see them clearly at all. Location is also a factor. No cyprinids originated from America. No characins originated from Asia.


----------



## cerianthus (Jul 13, 2008)

Definitelty no characins from Asia as far as I know. Although most of Cyprinids are from Asia, Europe and Africa, there are Cyprinids from North America such as a Shiners (Notropis sp.), Minnows (Pimephales sp). etc....

As far as adding Live Plants when cycling, I do understand that some may feel it may slow down the process of establishing bio-activities since will consume waste product of fish, but Live Plants are source of bio-activities when added to tank which can populate the amount of bio-activities faster. Not to mention ability to control sudden spikes depending on the amount of plant and amount of fish's waste.
When balancing pros and cons, I would do w/ plant rather than w/o if one is going for DUTCH AQUARIUM.


----------

