# Starting new 10 gallon freshwater tank!



## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Hello all! I am starting a new tank. 10 gallons to be specific! Right now it is all i can afford because bigger is quite expensive. I would love 30 but i dont want to spend anything over 50$...anyways I would like to know (like in my saltwater new tank help) What i need and What i can put in there. I am for sure putting Alpha my Betta fish in there. He has been with 3 ghost shrimp in a 1 gallon with no filter no nothing. Just little rocks and a color wheel. He picked at them and atually took off the front legs of one (they are now all dead). So for this one I am going to have a cave for my little shrimp but what other fish can I add with him? What plants should I get, if i should get any? It is a brand new tank so should I wait to put the fish in it? Any help would be greaT so thank you!


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

need to know gh kh and ph, do you plan on doing any live plants?


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

MoneyMitch said:


> need to know gh kh and ph, do you plan on doing any live plants?


I do not know what gh and kh stand for. if you mean pH as in acidity I have not made it yet. I am getting it thrusday and I want to know all the means for it before I start any fish. And yes I do plan on getting live plants if 10 gallons is enough room


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

Have you already purchased the tank ? If so, what came with it ? You could probably get a pretty complete 10g kit for $50.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

10 gallons is plentyyyyyyyyy of room. gh and kh are part of what make up your ph... cant recommend any fish witout atelast a ph measurement.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Ok then well thanks. I havent purchased the tank yet so I cannot tell you the pH levels. The only thing I can say is I am adding a betta fish. So should I continue this forum once I get everything set up? Any advice would be great


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

continuing to use the forum is totally up to you once you get your tank setup. but it is impossible to recommend fish for water paramiters that we have no idea what are. wrong recommendations can cause problems with the fish and likely death.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

MoneyMitch said:


> continuing to use the forum is totally up to you once you get your tank setup. but it is impossible to recommend fish for water paramiters that we have no idea what are. wrong recommendations can cause problems with the fish and likely death.


Well thank you for that, but does ten gallon stop any fish from being allowed in there? Like angelfish?


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

yes, angelfish are too big as adults to be in there


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

MoneyMitch said:


> yes, angelfish are too big as adults to be in there


Any other fish (other than pondfish) that I can't put in there?


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

There are many fish that you can't add and many that you can. The betta adds another aspect. I added my betta to a 20g community tank containing platys and tetras and he chased them constantly. It's a very real possibility that you'll end up with a ten gallon betta tank. Other people have had bettas exist peacefully within a community tank. You never know. You just have to be prepared for the worst. To be honest, as soon as you said the betta was definitely going in, I had a bad feeling. As a rule, they generally don't make good community fish...if not for their aggression, then that of fish that can't resist nipping at those long beautiful fins. Your betta will surely benefit from having more space, heat, filtration, and cover in the form of live plants. The rest is a gamble. Best of luck.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Yes...I am considering not adding him because of how he interacted with my ghost shrimp. He had "moments" to attack them.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

You can get the General Hardness (GH) and pH from your water utility if you are city water. Call or look it up online. 

Given your betta behaviour with the shrimp I might suggest he will be aggressive with anything. If you have lots of plants and maybe a small piece of knarly driftwood you could keep cherry shrimp, maybe. I did that with my betta but in a 37 gallon tank but mine didn't bother with them at all. 

A 10 gallon heated tank will be good for the betta as a solitary fish. 

Jeff.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Thanks. But I am going to leave him in my 1 gallon tank no heater or filter. He is doing excellent as is


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog, welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.

This thread has bounced around a bit, but as you asked at one point what fish could go in your 10g, I will mention our fish profiles, second heading from the left in the blue bar across the top of the page. Each profile has minimum tank sizes for the fish, and minimum numbers as some fish are shoaling and need a group.

Knowing your water parameters is essential though, as some fish need specific ranges. As someone suggested, you can get this info from your municipal water supply people, they likely have a website. The GH is the general hardness, and pH refers to the acidity/alkalinity. Selecting fish suited to your tap water is always wiser and easier.

Byron.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

*Update*

Finally got the tank! The filter set up, water had amquel and novaqua added to detoxify the water, light set up, getting gravel and fish today (cheap hardy fish to help the cycle). I also finally got a measuring thing! My measurements were
Ammonia=.5
Nitrate= 20
Nitrite=0
(Hardness) GH=0
Chlorine=0
(Alkalinity) KH= 300 (High)
pH= 8.4 (Also high)
So there are my measurements. I am not too happy on the alkalinity and pH. So Anything to add now that its updated?
---
Edit: What should my gameplan be today? Go to the store and buy gravel, and fish, and plants(?)


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> Finally got the tank! The filter set up, water had amquel and novaqua added to detoxify the water, light set up, getting gravel and fish today (cheap hardy fish to help the cycle). I also finally got a measuring thing! My measurements were
> Ammonia=.5
> Nitrate= 20
> Nitrite=0
> ...


First on those numbers, presumably that is the tap water on its own. Recheck the nitrate. If your tap water really is 20ppm, we can discuss ways to lower it. Confirm the GH being 0 and the KH being 300ppm with the municipal water folks. This is a bit odd.

First thing to do is plant the tank, so decide on the substrate, and get some plants. Floating are ideal especially in new tanks as they grow fast and therefore use more nutrients including ammonia/ammonium.

On the substrate, either fine gravel or sand is best. If you intend substrate fish like corys, sand is what you should get. I use basic play sand. A 50 pound bag costs a few dollars from stores like Home Depot or Lowe's.

Byron.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Byron said:


> First on those numbers, presumably that is the tap water on its own. Recheck the nitrate. If your tap water really is 20ppm, we can discuss ways to lower it. Confirm the GH being 0 and the KH being 300ppm with the municipal water folks. This is a bit odd.
> 
> First thing to do is plant the tank, so decide on the substrate, and get some plants. Floating are ideal especially in new tanks as they grow fast and therefore use more nutrients including ammonia/ammonium.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't sand be harder to clean? And ok I am stocking it with cycling fish today to help the filter (since I just set up the tank lat night) so plants wouldn't hurt the cycle? And also the new numbers are 
Nitrate=20
Nitrite=0
GH=0
Chlorine=0
KH= fits 180 i didnt look closely enough at the color chart and went with the latter but it is not that deep of blue.
pH=between 7.8-8.4 i say it is about 8


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> Wouldn't sand be harder to clean? And ok I am stocking it with cycling fish today to help the filter (since I just set up the tank lat night) so plants wouldn't hurt the cycle? And also the new numbers are
> Nitrate=20
> Nitrite=0
> GH=0
> ...


No, do not put fish in a new tank. The plants are put in first, to avoid a "cycle" that will otherwise harm fish.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

*Umm*

I had no choice. My sister bought "final sale fish" 
1 green tiger barb (as small as the danio so very very young)
3 platys (about an inchpretty grown)
3 zebra danio (about 4 cm but pretty grown as well if i had to guess)
-.- no plants. no decoration. What do i do. I have to put the fish in. I asked the store no refunds or "give-backs" for that matter


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> I had no choice. My sister bought "final sale fish"
> 1 green tiger barb (as small as the danio so very very young)
> 3 platys (about an inchpretty grown)
> 3 zebra danio (about 4 cm but pretty grown as well if i had to guess)
> -.- no plants. no decoration. What do i do. I have to put the fish in. I asked the store no refunds or "give-backs" for that matter


Doyou understand the cycle issue? If not, read this post:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

To avoid the toxic effect of ammonia and then nitrite as that post will detail, your only option now is to do daily water changes of half the tank, every day, until it is cycled. Or until you add some fast-growing plants.

Aside from that, you have some fish issues. Barbs and danios are shoaling fish, they need a group of their own species. A 10g tank is not sufficient room for groups of all these fish, so I guess you can't do much about this. Check the profiles [click the shaded names] on the fish species.

Things cannot be rushed in this hobby, something we all had to learn.


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## fish keeper 2013 (Mar 8, 2013)

Thats pretty heavily stocked for an uncycled tank... Be prepared to do lots of large water changes in the weeks upcoming. I would highly reccomend getting a bottle of seaochem prime, could be a life saver for your fish. Read up on the nitrogen cycle. Regarding your test results, high kh and ph and a gh of 0 sounds really unrelistic... What test kit are you using? Is it one of the strip test kits? Those are notorius for being unreliable. Is your source water tap water? I'm pretty sure 20ppm of nitrate in tap water in the U.S is illegal, there is a set limit of 10ppm (nitrate can also be poisonous to humans). Where do you live?

Edit: oh yeah, try to get a heater for your betta. Bettas are tropical fish and need to have warm water. You can commonly find heaters made for betta bowls.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

I know my sister came home with them. Poor guys...But what plant would be good? I didn't want to rush. I was going to get my betta's waste water and use that to help cycle but my sister was too soon. I am hoping to upgrade tank size in the mean time thats just too many fish, even I know that. Also I AM using strip tests. The fish store guy says he uses the same thing and his fish are fine. Its a nice clean place with healthy fish so I took his advice. As to ammonia and nitrite killers i have amquel and novaqua. And i used filter water for this. I also put in quickstart. I live in the hills in southern california my room is always humid/stuffy.
As to the betta I will try, right now I am low on money...
Edit: The actual tank with all the fish is setup. It is on my "aquarium" page.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

Any of the fast growing stem / floating plants...hornwort, water sprite, dwarf hygrophila. You should get at least a few good sized bunches. Just let them all float for now. Be sure to keep your light on for at least 8 hours for the plants. Be sure to do the water changes also. Best of luck


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

one of the Platy is just laying there I don't know what's wrong with it I don't want iT to die is there anything I can do
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> one of the Platy is just laying there I don't know what's wrong with it I don't want iT to die is there anything I can do
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A water change, daily. Use one of the ammonia products mentioned, follow their instructions.

Fish trouble is likely ammonia, but of course could be any one of several other issues that I frankly wouldn't worry about now. Cycling is your main concern, and get those floating plants.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

The tiger barb is picking on everyone and I dont want to flush him alive nor kill him, so can I put him in a one gallon (for now) and put my betta in that 10 gallon? Or can I get a critter cage and put him completely under the water in the tank?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> The tiger barb is picking on everyone and I dont want to flush him alive nor kill him, so can I put him in a one gallon (for now) and put my betta in that 10 gallon? Or can I get a critter cage and put him completely under the water in the tank?


I would frankly destroy the barb (since the store won't take it back). This is how they behave, he will never improve. They are in our profiles as Tiger Barb, you can read more there.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Destroy?...
_Posted via Mobile Device_
Edit: Going to try a plastic mesh divider.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

The problem is that the TB needs to be in a group larger than you can accommodate and even then they can still do the same thing. The store won't take it back and, unless you are going to get another larger tank and buy more TBs, you are stuck... unless you can find someone to take it. Putting it in a 1 gallon for now... what is the later plan? There is a point that what you may choose to do may be harder on the fish than euthanizing it.

Impulse fish purchases are never a good idea and more often than not result in problems where fish die. Actually, store advised purchases, while not as often as pure impulse buys, still often have the same result.

Jeff.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

*Solution*

Well he calmed down except to one poor platy. They platy can arely get away without SEVERAL nips. Not to make things better, a fellow platy also nips at him! So I put him in a pet carrier in the actual tank for now. He has been inactive lately except for food and attacks so I think this is good rehabilitation for him. other than giving him away, any suggestions to help the attacks? I believe he is male and the female is attacking. The other male platy gets attacked by the barb also but he gets away when the barb approaches.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

In addition to improving water quality, the plants will provide cover. This is important for most fish as it seems to make them feel more secure and, obviously, gives them places to hide. Also, one of the few things you can do to try to impact a fish's behavior is change its surroundings.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

I am letting my tank cycle before I add plants, but what other hiding places can I add?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> I am letting my tank cycle before I add plants, but what other hiding places can I add?


Why?


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

Add the plants as soon as possible. The damage has been done and the plants will only help fix it.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Won't it upset the ammonia levels?


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

It will suck up excess ammonia, that is desirable. Even if you are cycling the tank that won't stop, in fact, keeping the ammonia levels lower will help the fish and the cycle as the ammonia levels dont need to be high.. Enough plants and you don't need to do the whole "cycle" at all. Water, substrate, plants (lots) wait a day or two and start adding fish in small groups every couple of weeks.

Jeff.


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## fish monger (Dec 29, 2011)

Once fish are in the tank, the only ammonia level you want to see is 0. Trying to maintain any other level or looking for spikes are out of the equation. Your goal now is to get the parameters to healthy levels as soon as possible.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

ok sorry for all the mistakes, this is my first time so yeah. The cycle is almost over and I will just leave it for now


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> ok sorry for all the mistakes, this is my first time so yeah. The cycle is almost over and I will just leave it for now


I'm not sure what this may mean exactly, so I will repeat, add some plants as soon as you can. They will not mess things up, they will make it better, and might even save your fish.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

fish monger said:


> Any of the fast growing stem / floating plants...hornwort, water sprite, dwarf hygrophila. You should get at least a few good sized bunches. Just let them all float for now. Be sure to keep your light on for at least 8 hours for the plants. Be sure to do the water changes also. Best of luck


I will be adding those plants as soon as I can


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

*update*

I Got A hydrophila kompact Plant. That's It. What Do I Put WithIt? Fertilizer? Air Stone? The Plant Is Quite Small. It'sInGreen Gravel


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> I Got A hydrophila kompact Plant. That's It. What Do I Put WithIt? Fertilizer? Air Stone? The Plant Is Quite Small. It'sInGreen Gravel


The "Compact" is a variant of the species Hygrophila Corymbosa, or the Gian Hygrophila, except that the "Compact" form is, well, compact (smaller).:lol: So the data in the profile will apply to this plant [click the shaded name for the profile].

You will probably need a liquid fertilizer, as stem plants are fast growing. Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is what I use. You don't need an air stone, as this is unnecessary water disturbance which tends to drive CO2 out of the water faster than the plants can use it.

Byron.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

*Update*

Well it has been a while since posting in this thread. My fish are doing fine. 1 danio and 1 platy died but the rest are fine. I just wanted to give an update on the tank. It has been 7 weeks since getting the tank started. I added the Hygrophila and it was demolished. The fish ate at it SO much. Now it is still alive and there was only 1 leaf left on it. Now a bloom of leaf appeared and it is regrowing. I have not bought any fertilizer or things like that for it. Every wednesday I use nutrafin cycle to help my fish survive. The numbers are looking like this now
NH=.5
KH=180
PH=7.8
GH=75
CL=0
NO3=40
NO2=0


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

*Sorry for the thread revival but...*

A bit of an update...my tank cycled! And I got 4 new plants! Along with an albino algae eater. But could you guys ID the plants. One is an anubias. The others I will get pictures running soon


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

FrightyDog said:


> A bit of an update...my tank cycled! And I got 4 new plants! Along with an albino algae eater. But could you guys ID the plants. One is an anubias. The others I will get pictures running soon


Looking forward to the photos. But on the albino algae eater, be careful. If you can, I would return it, for the reasons in our profile, here:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/cyprinid-species/gyrinocheilus-aymonieri-192529/
the "albino" is just a variant of the Chinese Algae Eater.


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## FrightyDog (Apr 16, 2013)

Oh my...well ok I will try the next time I can get a ride there.And I got the pictures. One of the pictures is the anubias nana (it will be the last picture)
































And this is the Nana


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The first photo seems to be microsword, here is our profile with photos:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/substrate-rooted-plants/lilaeopsis-brasiliensis-207602/
although it might be pygmy chain sword, but I suspect microsword.

Next 3 photos are crypts, though which exact species I'm not sure fro the photos, and I tend to get them confused anyway.

Last is Anubias as you said.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Not sure which part of SoCal you are in but I spend a lot of time over there and even though that store might not take fish back there are other stores that will at least give you credit towards other fish to stock the tank properly. Never seen a shortage of aquarium/fish stores in SoCal. 
Sorry, just wanted to let you know there are options for the ones that are alive still


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