# Thick Green "slime" on water surface... dying fish



## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi all,

So I worked from home today, and while looking at my tanks I noticed the ember tetra in my 10 Gallon were not active, and hiding under my plant leaves. I thought ich, because I got ich in this tank before and they were acting the same way, but i didnt see spots on them.

For whatever reason idecided to lift the whole lid off the tank and I saw this thick green slime on the surface. I did a water change this past monday, so only a few days ago, and changes the aquascape around so this slime was not there at that time. I netted it out and flushed it. The fish hid all day so I checked water parameters and everything was normal. I tried to feed them a little early and they all came out to eat, then hid again. I went out for dinner and came home found a dead cory and everyone else still hiding.

I did add driftwood to this tank on Monday. I had the driftwood in it before but it leached tannins so bad that I took it out for a few months (the water was dark brown in about two days). I finally got a pot and boiled it the past 3 weeks for proably a total time of 5 hours, when the water was pretty clear. I did not have this wood in the tank when i got ich last time. I just had to remove it because the water got so dark so fast.

I also did not like my sponge filter, so i bought another one, and had them running side by side to seed the new one for the past two months and removed that on Monday as well.

My question is what do you think this slime is, and what do you think could have caused this random death. 

P.S. I did a 30% water change and took out the wood for now. I see no mold/fungus on it. 

Another thing to point out is I have MTS and the first day i put the wood in they all came out of the sand and went all over the wood, even during the day, and the corys browsed it for a few days.


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## Boredomb (Feb 21, 2011)

You know it kinda looks like cyanobacteria. I know it floats or can float in calm water but didn't know or have heard of this in aquariums? When this happens in ponds or near shorelines it can be thick and actually take oxygen and nutrients out of the water for its own use. Maybe (just guessing here) this is what happen in your case? Or I could be crazy as it is 4am LoL


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Not enough water movement and/or filtration in the tank?
Too much light?
Neglected routine weekly water changes?
High nitrates?


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

Maybe not enough water movement due to the new filters positioning and the floating plants. Allthogh when the slime is not there the plants do move around due to the current. 

The light schedule did not change so while this could be the issue it's weird that the slime was never there untill 3 days after the last waterchange. 

Not neglecting routine water changes. Done everybody Sunday or Monday night. 

Nitrates between 0-5ppm
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubbles1 (Jun 25, 2011)

have you added any fertilizers in the water by any chance? because this looks like eutrophacation. its when there are fertilizers present in the water and a large algae bloom over the water appears..


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

That is cyanobacteria. I usually see it near the surface, attached to floating plants, first, but it can float like this too. In fact, I just recently had this in my 70g.

Cause is organics, in the presence of light. Blackouts will temporarily reduce it but it will continue to occur until the organics issue is resolved. I've had this occur simply by not cleaning the canister filter sufficiently (=too infrequently). Any increase in organics (which can be due to fish load, dying plant matter, overfeeding, over-fertilizing, not cleaning filters/substrate) may be responsible.

Do a water change, half the tank (assuming parameters are equal) with a good siphoning of the surface to remove the scum, rub it off plants, etc and siphon it out, vacuum the substrate; rinse the filter media.

Make sure the light and nutrients are balanced. I've seen this in tanks near windows since they get more light.

Byron.


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## eaturbyfill (May 22, 2012)

I really hope your remaining fish recover well. I've never even heard of this tank problem :shock:


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

Lost another cory today. They looked fine yesterday and when I woke he had "white stuff" on him (see pic 1). Went out for 3-4 hours and came back and he was dead. He looked like he was wrapped in a spider web. White fuzzies/moldy looking. Not sure if thats just a rotting fish or signs of something else. No snails on him or anything. COulndt get a good pic of this, he just looked white.

Not sure why this is happening. I can only blame the wood, allthough i dont want to because I bought it for this tank! I thought i was playing it safe by boiling the wood now this happens. As for too much organics/ inbalance, not sure what it is. I seeded the new filter before i removed the old one. Did a 50% change ( i do 20%-30% every week) because i was re-aquascaping, then added the wood. Light timing has never caused an issue, and this is the largest amount of plants i ever had in this tank so if anything i would think that this algea would be less of an issue now. It has not yet returned.

Looked at a tetra and saw this now. I dont see any spots on them that look like ich, just this (pic 2). the white stuff is like hanging off him


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The fish is not related to the wood. I will PM Dawn and ask her to kindly take a look here. In the interim, you might want to post full tests for the water (GH, pH, temp, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate), fish in the tank, etc.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I agree with Byron thus far and I don't think the cause of the fish illness is directly related to the cyano/algae mess you had at the surface of the tank, however... that and the wood itself could be a contributing factor. 

Can I ask what kind of wood this is? Do you have a clear photo of it? Where did you get it from? (store bought aquarium safe, outdoor scavenger hunt, garden center, etc?) 

I am going to need current water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and water temp, and to know if you have a quarantine tank? I'm also going to need a list of all fish/inverts in the tank (and how many of each) as well as what foods you are offering, how much, and how often. What chemicals do you add to this tank? (please include brand of water conditioner, any fertilizers, etc. that go into this tank)

Is there any way to get a clearer photo of the affected fish? I am suspecting this is fungal but cannot offer more than a suspicion based on the last photo.

In regards to driftwood... anytime we add wood to an aquarium there is some level of risk, even if it is bought at a pet store and listed as aquarium safe. There are many different types/species of fungus, parasites, and even algae that can live inside of driftwood and boiling or even manufacturer treatments (usually heat, sometimes chemical or both depending on the company) can't guarantee they will kill everything. The more dense the wood the more risk involved that something inside the wood may have survived. All it takes is one spore of fungus to start a problem when conditions are right for it to thrive. These spores can lie dormant for years and then suddenly one day when the conditions are right... boom, you see a problem. The same applies for parasites and their eggs. Your description of the heavy tannins in this wood tells me this is pretty dense and likely either Malaysian drift wood, welaby wood, or something similar, which are known to carry heavy tannins. I am going to take a guess here and suggest that this piece of wood seems heavy for its size? 

Wood can also contribute to organics in any aquarium regardless of the amount of maintenance, filtration, etc that is being done. Wood rots, often times from the inside out where we can't see it... and those spores and insect/parasite eggs can do the same thing... After reading all of the info in this thread I am going to suggest you not put this piece of wood back into your tank. If you have done so already, then I would suggest removing it and not using it for an aquarium again. Soaking it, boiling it, etc. isn't going to do any good if the problem is coming from within the wood, which is very possible and there is no way to predict such a thing. Testing it in another aquarium also can't always tell us everything it will do in a specific tank because as mentioned, many of these problems only occur when the conditions are just right, which may happen in 1 out of 1000 aquariums... 

There are some wonderful artificial pieces of aquarium decor available that look like real driftwood but are made of resin. I would suggest you pursue one of these if you desire a piece of wood in your tank. 

Once I have the info I asked for we will continue to sort out the problem with the fish and any medications you may need to help get them through this problem. The more info you can offer the faster and easier it will be for me to help you.


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## Lisa123 (May 16, 2012)

*Blue Green Algae bacteria*

I just got over this in my tank that is almost 1 year old. Its the cyan (sp?) bacteria. Unfortunately, I ended up treating with a round of Erythromycin. My fish also had a bad case of Ich and I lost half my tank. I'm not sure what started first, the bacteria or the Ich, but with both problems going I felt like a mess! My water has always been changed every 1 to 2 weeks with a good syphoning of the substrate. So, after having fish tanks for over 30 years, this was quite a shock and I've never dealt with this before. We just moved to this location from out of state and my guess is the tap water here has more in it (phosphates). In that case, I needed to do something more to help "clean" the tap water beyond the conditioner. So, I bought a UV sterilizer after much online research. I decided to get the Green Killing Machine, just to try the process out at not a huge investment. I do have to say that after 2 days my water has never been this clear and I am very pleased. And, the cyan bacteria has not come back....yet. I hope it doesn't ever again! I am crossing my fingers this is the solution to have a nice tank to watch!! Good luck to you!


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## SinCrisis (Aug 7, 2008)

I got bga in my tanks before, its one of the most frustrating "algae" to treat. I ended up nuking the tank with maracyn, but that should be a last resort. I had to remove all inhabitants for 2 weeks and had to do a 75% water change followed by 10% daily changes to get rid of the medication, but the BGA has never returned since. Its a pretty thorough nuke.

As for wood, at least when I get it, I dry it in the oven, then I boil it, dry it again, and then soak it in a bucket for over a month (with water changes in the bucket every few days). I've tossed a lot of different woods in my tank from many different sources and have never had any problems. I think the science is that the boiling water + high heat of the oven turns the water into steam and it sterilizes more thoroughly than just boiling. The second boil loosens up the pores and the soak lets any impurities leech out. (I'm not a scientist, just something i think happens from how i treat my wood and experience).


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

If you look at the first photo that was posted in this thread, to the left, it is pretty clear to see the actual strands of algae at the surface of the water. What we are seeing here is not cyano and it's not BGA. There are thousands of different species of algae out there, each one has it's own specific food sources, light requirements, etc. in order to thrive. While there may be some cyano bacteria involved in this situation, I am not yet seeing any clear indication of that.
The algae seen in the first photo is a very soft hair algae and if you take a finger and skim it through it will pull up, like soft cotton, and bring along anything that is tangled in it. I have dealt with this in my own tanks many times and this particular species tends to be primarily phosphate fed, though it also chokes out plant life near the surface (where there is more light) and feeds from the dying/dead plant matter as well. This type of algae can also contribute to cyano issues as well as a great many other issues in the water chemistry. It can be very difficult to get rid of... but medication is not the way to do it, nor is blocking out the light. Phosphate levels are the first thing to check with a situation like this.


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the help and advice. Sorry I was not able to give bettery updates as I have been very busy with work. 

I do not have a phosphate test, but after water changes every few days then going back to weekly I have yet to see this return.

My main concern was the white "fuz" on my fish. It dissapeared from my tetra after a few days of my last post, but all my cories were lost. im going to continue to treat the wood in hopes I can use it again. Sin, how long and at what heat do you cook it in the oven after a boil?

I am moving to a new apartment Sep 1st. Ill have two weeks to move, so i plan on getting my 20L setup at the new place and moving these fish there. I want to add more sparkling gourami at that time, and Ill also add cories after it is established. I will not be adding panda cories as I have had no luck with them.

Id like to try the wood again at that time, and Ill see if this algea or white fuzz appears again before I move the fish over.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

bigehugedome said:


> Thanks everyone for the help and advice. Sorry I was not able to give bettery updates as I have been very busy with work.
> 
> I do not have a phosphate test, but after water changes every few days then going back to weekly I have yet to see this return.
> 
> ...


By 20L I am assuming you mean 20g long tank, and not 20 litre? Just want to be clear. What fish are still in this 20g long tank?

Just a caution, from my own experience. If there was white fungus on the wood, and the corys have all died, I would not use that wood no matter how you treat it. I had a branch of what I thought was Mopani but it may have been grapewood or Manzanita (stores may not always label correctly), and the corys were the first fish affected by this fungus. I did what i could to treat the wood, and had it in a fishless tank for 3 months with no issue, but within a few weeks of putting it in a tank with fish, they started dying and I saw the fungus on the back side of the branch. I wouldn't risk the fish.

Byron.


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

Good thought on the wood. 

Yes a 20long. Now there is only 6 ember tetra and 1 sparkling gourami.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey everyone. I know this is old bit I have updates. Things went back to normal for some time, however within the past 6 days everything began to quickly decline. 

I woke up one morning and all 6 remaining tetra and the gourami were dead. I wanna say this was last Tuesday. I did my water change the Sunday before. They all had "white fuzz" around them. Now all of my floating salvaina, crypts and Pygmy chain sword are dying off rapidly. My swords were sooo nice. Growing all over the tank, and now 85% percent of the leaves are brown. There is also this white fuzz. My MTS are not coming out hen the lights go out like usual. 

I was going to be moving everything to a 20L this time next month. I was hoping to use the plants sand and filter(and fish) but now I'm guessing I'll have to start over. And I don't know when I'll have the funds to buy new plants and fish. 

Could anyone help me understand what is going on? I have 4 tanks and this one and my 2.5 have alot of trouble. The only thing I can keep alive in my 2.5 is a betta. All the shrimp and plants died. Except my anabuis, which is yellowing. My 29 and my 5 gallons are having no issues. 

This all started in my 10 when I replaced the sponge filter. I let both run side to side for a month before I moved the old one out. That's when there was issues. Unfortunatly it was at the same time I added the wood I stated above. 

There may be more bubbles breaking the water surface since this new filter. Could that be it?

Ph is also weird to me. It's about 7.2 in the tap. But my tanks have been lowering. My 29 is like 6.6 but my 10 is yellow on the test. Which is like 6. 

And like I said before I do a wc every sunday, sometimes Monday night if I miss Sunday. And does flourish comp on wednesdays. It's a life glo bulb. And temps are at 78.

Sorry I'm very vague and there are alot of grammar issues. My computer broke as well and I'm on my phone. I'm just super stressed at today's situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

It would seem to me that something very toxic is in the tank, to have killed the fish so quickly, and the plants. If the white fungus from the wood was initially present, that may have been it.

I will hope that Dawn sees this and chimes in, as she will know better than me.

I will just say i know how depressing something like this can be. I have had situations where fish began dying for no obvious reason, and it turned out to be something toxic in a huge chunk of wood [not the fungus, this was different]. I've had fish suddenly dying rapidly from a protozoan introduced with new fish. I've had plants suddenly falling apart for no reason when nothing had changed for months if not years. All one can do is patiently explore the possibles until the culprit is found.

Byron.


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

Well like always I want to thank everyone for all the info. However, givin the situation im in I decided to tear the tank down yesterday. My original goal was to migrate this tank to a 20long for more room for sparkling gourami when I move in August, and it seemed like a waste to try and keep the tank going, while not knowing what caused this issue. Now I'll have a fresh start if and when I decide to start the 20long.

The tank was fun, It was my better planted tanks. Watching the chain sword take over and poke out between rocks and wood was great. And I think sparkling gourami are super interesting to watch. I need to find a cheap stand for a 20long and of I can incorporate it into my office when I move I'll start another thread with my build process. 

Thanks again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

Well I have no luck. I did a WC in my 2.5today because i missed Monday, and within an hour my betta had the white fuzz on him. I had to go out for a few hours and came back to this. This is exactly how all my other fish looked in my 10. I also added Sylvania from my 5 which has not had issues to my 2.5 and it is already browning after 8 hours, although i have never had luck with this 2.5.











I also messed up somehow and lost the betta in my 5. It’s crazy. He has growths on his sides ( I have another thread on it) and he can only sit at the water line, he cannot swim around the tank too well. I have been nursing him back to health, and i needed to trim the plants today. I somehow lost him. He may have been accidentally flushed, or he jumped and disappeared somehow. 

I also moved plants from my 5 to my 29. I really really really hope i didn’t move over any of this fungus. It’s strange the fungus only "activates" after a water change? Do you think i moved things over with my net or something? Is it possible my prime or flourish is bad? If I lose my 29 i think I would lose all hope in this hobby.

I also noticed this type of algae quickly spreading in my 29. I can’t get it off my plants.











Such a bad day


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I'm back to do what I can to help (at Byron's request) but I'm not sure how much anyone can do at this point. What I am seeing in the photo of the betta doesn't appear to be just a fungal issue. The fins show obvious signs of fin rot, which is bacterial as well as fungal. By the time fin rot is visible to the human eye it is in an advanced stage and treatment can be difficult because when it comes to bettas there are very few medications that are both safe and effective. My guess after looking at the photo of the betta is that the infection took over and that is very likely what killed this fish. The white appearance of the fish doesn't look to me like just fungus, but rather fungus that was feeding on dead tissue... which would be bacteria based. (the bacteria eats away and kills the tissue and the fungus sets in and feeds on the dead tissue, aka fin rot which can affect the entire body of the fish as it advances)

As for the algae on the plants, this type of algae tends to be phosphate fed and can often be battled successfully by adding a phosphate remover to the filter media. If you look at the fertilizer that you are using, check for phosphate content. It is likely that there is phosphate in the water and then more going in via the fertilizer, and the excessive amount of phosphate is thus feeding the algae. Algae eating shrimp (ammano shrimp) tend to do a good job of eating this type of algae. There is no easy way to remove it from live plants, though with anubias, since the leaves are thick and glossy, sometimes a gentle scrubbing with a toothbrush can help. Be careful not to snap the leaves off of the rhizome in the process. 

The yellow and brown leaves that were described earlier in this thread can be caused by a few different things... light that is too strong on a shallow tank, excess of a particular nutrient, or depletion of a particular nutrient. It's a matter of water testing and checking light strength vs depth of the tank, and etc. to narrow it down. Every species of plant has it's specific needs and they all differ to some degree. Some plants need more of a specific nutrient while other plants need less. Live aquatic plants are a world of their own and learning to mix/match them properly according to their needs, and learning to place them properly in the tank (those that need less light can be placed lower in a tank and "under" larger leaf plants to accommodate the shade they need from strong light that other plants may need, etc) is usually enough to do the trick. It's also good to understand that all plant fertilizers are not created equal, and watching the list of ingredients on the bottles/packaging is important to find the right balance of what is needed for specific species of plants. In a healthy aquarium with fish, most plants can thrive without the addition of fertilizers. Some people think that if you work with live plants you HAVE to use a fertilizer, but fish waste is, in itself, fertilizer. Fertilizers can be difficult to dose because a prescribed dose on the packaging doesn't take into account the species and number of plants in any given tank. It is quite easy to put more fertilizer/nutrients into a tank than what the plants can utilize, thus causing a variety of problems that once started, can be difficult and time consuming to fix. If you really feel the need to use fertilizer for the plants, you may want to either try a different brand (without phosphate in it) and/or cut down the dose you are currently using.

I'm not sure what else I can do to help here... other than advising you to purchase a phosphate test kit and be sure to test tap and tank water both. The other thing I can suggest is you may want to consider prefiltering your tap water before using it to do water changes in your tanks. If there is something coming in from the tap water (which sounds like a real possibility) that would surely help to remove any toxins that are causing harm to the fish. To do this in your type of situation I would suggest a rubbermaid tub, power filter, and polyfilter for the media (polyfilter will remove the most and do it faster than any other filter media), and give the water 24 - 48 hrs to run through the polyfilter before using it in your tanks. You may also want to add a heater to this set up to ensure that the temp of the clean water matches that of the tanks. 

Lastly a word of caution in regards to the tanks where there have been fish losses. Before setting them back up be sure to sterilize them with bleach water, rinse well, and let them completely air dry for a matter of days before attempting to use them again. Substrate should be thrown away and replaced in these tanks as well. You may also want to test the wood in a specific tank so as to be sure it's going to be safe again to use in a main tank. If a fish needs to die to do this, better it is 1 fish instead of an entire tank full of them, though if this were me, I personally, would not be using that wood in another aquarium... ever. I value all life and would not want to risk the chance of killing another animal needlessly.

I'm not sure why you chose eurethromycin to dose your previous tank... but please be aware that all medications are not safe for all fish, nor are they all safe for live plants. I would urge in the future to ask for help in selecting a proper medication before dumping anything into your tanks. Following claims on medication packaging tends to result in a lot of dead fish/wiped out tanks because they do not put all of the needed warnings on those packages. Fish medicine is my specialty, so please feel free to ask for help if you need it. I am always happy to do so. I have been working in the field of fish medicine for 20 yrs now (professionally), and there is no replacement for experience. It takes a deep understanding of the animals, the environments, and the medications and the ingredients in each medication to understand what is both safe and effective in any given situation. It also takes a good understanding of health issues and the process of diagnosis, and I have seen far too much guessing and assumptions online than there should be... which again, tends to result in tragedy instead of recovery.

Good luck to you! Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

bettababy said:


> I'm back to do what I can to help (at Byron's request) but I'm not sure how much anyone can do at this point. What I am seeing in the photo of the betta doesn't appear to be just a fungal issue. The fins show obvious signs of fin rot, which is bacterial as well as fungal. By the time fin rot is visible to the human eye it is in an advanced stage and treatment can be difficult because when it comes to bettas there are very few medications that are both safe and effective. My guess after looking at the photo of the betta is that the infection took over and that is very likely what killed this fish. The white appearance of the fish doesn't look to me like just fungus, but rather fungus that was feeding on dead tissue... which would be bacteria based. (the bacteria eats away and kills the tissue and the fungus sets in and feeds on the dead tissue, aka fin rot which can affect the entire body of the fish as it advances)
> 
> To be honest I did not realize he had fin rot. I assumed thats how crowntails were. He seemed fine in the tank. Was very active and social. I did have issues keeping cherry and ghost shrimp alive in this tank, as well as some plants. But I cleaned it out and cycled again and added this guy. I just dont undestand why he would be fine(even if he had fin rot) but turned white and died within an hour or so of a water change.
> 
> ...


I thank everyone again. I feel so stupid for everything. I will start fresh soon. 

Im just praying that nothing happens to my 29. I have to move it to the new apartment and this will stress them (its only across a courtyard, but still) and I dont want them to get sick. Is there anything I should do to try and prevent issues in my 29? Extra water changes? I have tetra, loaches, rasbora, gourami and a pleco.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

In regards to what I do professionally in way of fish medicine, the list is long and there is no way to offer a full detailed account of 20 yrs of work here, lol. To sum it all up, diagnosis, treatments, research, experimentation, lab work, surgery (yes, fish surgery), etc. on a professional level, which means this is what I do for a living... my paid job. I started out about 20 yrs ago in a very special situation at a pet store unlike any other... formal education and research were part of the job description/requirement. 90% of the staff had college degrees ranging from ichthyology to aquatic/marine biology, botany, veterinary science, etc. (also a very long list) Most of my managers were also teachers, gave seminars (not just to public but also specific within the fish industry), and made education a top priority on the job as well as off. We HAD to attend school in order to keep our jobs. One of my mentors is an aquatic biologist who specialized in the aquatic medical field and he took me under his wing, and yrs later I married him, so now he is my husband.  I had the benefit of not only the formal education that was required as part of my job, but also the extended academic education with the use of borrowed books/materials/research from each of my management team and them as personal instructors. It was like getting a full college education using tutors in each specific area. 
Added to my teachers/mentors at work, we also worked alongside of and learned from the best in the industry including licensed aquatic vets. The team I was a part of was also the chosen professional consult of all of the local zoos, too. 
It's kind of hard to sum up 20+ yrs of education, experience, research, etc. into a post here on the forum, but I hope this gives you a general idea. After about 10 yrs I left the store and started my own private business, doing the same thing, including tank maintenance accounts in private office buildings and etc., consults & help with private aquaria (working with the general public), continued my research in my lab here at home, took in and nursed more fish than I can count before finding them forever homes, and expanded on the amount of breeding I do here at home. I also maintain contact with many of the other professionals that I either worked alongside of or was otherwise acquainted with over the years so my education continues even now to be ongoing, which allows me to keep up with the changes within the industry as well as changes over the yrs in the medical field. This is and has been my full time career for all these yrs and I can't imagine doing anything else. 

In my free time I come help at this forum and a few of the other fish groups found online, as time allows, because I know first hand the need for experienced and qualified help in this field.

In regards to moving your fish... if you are simply going across the courtyard, the move shouldn't have to be real difficult. I would opt for covered buckets for the fish, save as much of the aquarium water from your tanks as possible, and use this tank water for moving the fish. Siphon out as much water as possible to fill your buckets before you disturb the substrate. Plants can be put into the buckets with the fish. Once the tanks are placed in their new location slowly begin refilling them with the saved water, add the fish, and top off the tanks to replace any lost water, which will serve as a water change. This means there is no reason for a formal acclimation, the fish can go right back into the tanks. Turn on the filters, turn off the lights, and let everything settle for the next 24 hrs. If you find a lot of solid/organic debris has been brought up during the move, you can begin with slow clean up of 10 - 15% water changes each day, doing a small amount of gravel vac each time. This will keep any changes to a minimum and decrease the amount of stress the fish are dealing with.

Do not change filter media just before the move nor within the first 2 wks after. So if it is due for a change, do this at least 1 - 2 wks before moving the tanks if possible. (that should put you at the 1 month change by the time it needs to be changed again) If it needs to be rinsed during this time, do it in a bucket of dirty tank water rather than under the tap. This will help preserve the bacteria culture within the media.

In case you're wondering I have used this very method myself many times over the yrs and have never lost a single fish or plant in the process. I have also coached many others through the same thing and losses there were also minimal, depending on how closely they followed the instructions. 


I hope this helps.


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

bettababy said:


> In regards to what I do professionally in way of fish medicine, the list is long and there is no way to offer a full detailed account of 20 yrs of work here, lol. To sum it all up, diagnosis, treatments, research, experimentation, lab work, surgery (yes, fish surgery), etc. on a professional level, which means this is what I do for a living... my paid job. I started out about 20 yrs ago in a very special situation at a pet store unlike any other... formal education and research were part of the job description/requirement. 90% of the staff had college degrees ranging from ichthyology to aquatic/marine biology, botany, veterinary science, etc. (also a very long list) Most of my managers were also teachers, gave seminars (not just to public but also specific within the fish industry), and made education a top priority on the job as well as off. We HAD to attend school in order to keep our jobs. One of my mentors is an aquatic biologist who specialized in the aquatic medical field and he took me under his wing, and yrs later I married him, so now he is my husband.  I had the benefit of not only the formal education that was required as part of my job, but also the extended academic education with the use of borrowed books/materials/research from each of my management team and them as personal instructors. It was like getting a full college education using tutors in each specific area.
> Added to my teachers/mentors at work, we also worked alongside of and learned from the best in the industry including licensed aquatic vets. The team I was a part of was also the chosen professional consult of all of the local zoos, too.
> It's kind of hard to sum up 20+ yrs of education, experience, research, etc. into a post here on the forum, but I hope this gives you a general idea. After about 10 yrs I left the store and started my own private business, doing the same thing, including tank maintenance accounts in private office buildings and etc., consults & help with private aquaria (working with the general public), continued my research in my lab here at home, took in and nursed more fish than I can count before finding them forever homes, and expanded on the amount of breeding I do here at home. I also maintain contact with many of the other professionals that I either worked alongside of or was otherwise acquainted with over the years so my education continues even now to be ongoing, which allows me to keep up with the changes within the industry as well as changes over the yrs in the medical field. This is and has been my full time career for all these yrs and I can't imagine doing anything else.
> 
> ...


 
Well your job sounds great!!! Thanks fo the help.


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## bigehugedome (Aug 2, 2010)

bettababy said:


> In regards to moving your fish... if you are simply going across the courtyard, the move shouldn't have to be real difficult. I would opt for covered buckets for the fish, save as much of the aquarium water from your tanks as possible, and use this tank water for moving the fish. Siphon out as much water as possible to fill your buckets before you disturb the substrate. Plants can be put into the buckets with the fish. Once the tanks are placed in their new location slowly begin refilling them with the saved water, add the fish, and top off the tanks to replace any lost water, which will serve as a water change. This means there is no reason for a formal acclimation, the fish can go right back into the tanks. Turn on the filters, turn off the lights, and let everything settle for the next 24 hrs. If you find a lot of solid/organic debris has been brought up during the move, you can begin with slow clean up of 10 - 15% water changes each day, doing a small amount of gravel vac each time. This will keep any changes to a minimum and decrease the amount of stress the fish are dealing with.
> 
> Do not change filter media just before the move nor within the first 2 wks after. So if it is due for a change, do this at least 1 - 2 wks before moving the tanks if possible. (that should put you at the 1 month change by the time it needs to be changed again) If it needs to be rinsed during this time, do it in a bucket of dirty tank water rather than under the tap. This will help preserve the bacteria culture within the media.
> 
> ...


So i followed this method pretty much, except i had issues with my stand and needed to go out and get a new one. So what i did , was place the fish in a 25 gallon on the floor and hooked up the same filter and heater. I also moved over plants and the wood and rock. They were there for about 1 and 1/2 hrs as i got a new stand, moved over the 29 gallon, and replaced the gravel with sand. I then seperated the fish into buckets and moved them over. (same apartment complex so like a 5 min walk).

Here is the issue. I did not expect them very well as they were in the 25 gallon, however i do know everyone was alive. I got everything into the 29 and turned the lights off. I then found, just a few hours later, that about 15 of my tetra, and 6 rasbora, 1 bamboo shrimp were dead. I did notice some nipped fins. I also noticed my Gourami has some nipped fins. Could my loaches have done something? 

Now all i have is 5 Black Neons and 5 Rummy Nose, 1 Pearl Gourami, 1 BN pleco and 5 zebra loaches. They are seem OK other than the nipped fins on the Gourami and the way the tetras are acting.

The tetras stay in their own groups, but before everyone would swim together. The rummynose took a few days to get their colors back, but they are still pretty dull. The day after the move, Everyone was gasping for air, and i added a bubbler. I have yet to remove it, but i dont want to keep it. I assume i just need to raise the numbers of the tetra so they feel more secure, but i dont want to add to many fish too soon.

My water parameters did not change, and they are normal now. I did move as much of the old water as possible but did have to add abpout 25%. I treated with Prime. 

What should be my next step? Should I add more fish?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

bigehugedome said:


> So i followed this method pretty much, except i had issues with my stand and needed to go out and get a new one. So what i did , was place the fish in a 25 gallon on the floor and hooked up the same filter and heater. I also moved over plants and the wood and rock. They were there for about 1 and 1/2 hrs as i got a new stand, moved over the 29 gallon, and replaced the gravel with sand. I then seperated the fish into buckets and moved them over. (same apartment complex so like a 5 min walk).
> 
> Here is the issue. I did not expect them very well as they were in the 25 gallon, however i do know everyone was alive. I got everything into the 29 and turned the lights off. I then found, just a few hours later, that about 15 of my tetra, and 6 rasbora, 1 bamboo shrimp were dead. I did notice some nipped fins. I also noticed my Gourami has some nipped fins. Could my loaches have done something?
> 
> ...


There are a couple possibles to account for the fin nipping/deaths. A 25g is not much room for all those fish, but more to the issue, neither is the 29g. Initially there were 31 tetra/rasbora, 5 zebra loach, a pearl gourami, and a Bristlenose pleco.

I would not keep the loach in anything under 3 feet. I have a group of five of this species, in my 4-foot 90g, and they are active. I have not noticed any nipping, but then the other fish are fairly active too and there is more space. A gourami is quite a temptation especially in a small space. It may be that the stress of the move increased their nipping, this happens; fish under stress can respond by being more aggressive (natural traits become stronger) or sometimes the opposite, they sort of withdraw into seclusion.

I assume the gasping is no longer happening; I would suspect this was due to the increase of ammonia/nitrite during the move or decreased oxygen. When I move fish, I never save water into the new tank, since the old water has increased ammonia/nitrite and I see no point dumping this into the new tank. I use the old tank water in the holding tank, and when the new tank is ready I do water changes on the old tank to get it close to the new tank.

I would leave the 29g as is for a couple weeks minimum, making sure everyone is settled. Ich may break out, this is very common when fish are stressed, so watch for it. And carefully observe fish interaction, esp from the loaches.

Byron.


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