# Indicator fish / "Canary" fish



## nomel (Jul 20, 2009)

Hello!

I'm looking for a fish that's extremely sensitive to water quality. I would rest easier if I had a "canary" in with the other fish to show me when troubles a brewin.

Any ideas (besides comments of cruelty)?


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Why is that even necessary? Won't a good water test kit tell you when trouble is "a-brewin"? 

Just wondering why you would choose the other option.


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## nomel (Jul 20, 2009)

Yes, it will tell me water quality, but disease and bacteria problems as well. So...just an all around puny fish.


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## love_my_fish (Sep 17, 2006)

From my experienc, Head and tail light tetras -- seemed these guys always got sick early enough to tell me something was wrong with the water. They were a pain in the butt though, as they loved jumping into my h.o.b. filter (cover was on, but there is a small gap around the intake, and they'd just sneak on in). 

I've heard that the snails -- the trumpet/cone shaped ones, when they aren't active in the gravel, that can be an indicator too. So if you already have these lovely things, they might help you out.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

IMO, a good test kit and knowing your fish should be enough of an indicator. A "canary" fish is quite unnecessary, and can even be cruel to said "canary" fish.
If you test your water weekly along with your PWC and know your fish well then thats all you need. If anything was amiss in my tank, I'd know right away even by my plattys.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I agree with others, A good water test kit should be all that is needed along with proper maint of the aquarium.
As for bacterial pathogens and or disease.,, The best preventitive is to quarantine new fish .


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## willow (Sep 9, 2006)

hi
i think the trouble with having a sensitive fish for that reason,may
not be the best option for you because of a couple of reasons.
the fish you introduce could have an infection already, die and
put you in a panic,it dosen't adjust to your tank properly and die,making you wonder again.
i think it would cause you more problems than you need,apart from perhaps
by the time the fish shows signs of being ill it's too late,say for example the
fish you chose was originally someone elses cycle fish,and lets face it
the shop wont tell you,it would have a shortened life span anyway.
the regualr water changes,quarentine,gravel vac,test kit,i feel would
be a much safer and reliable way to go.
good luck.


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## nomel (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks love_my_fish! Just what I wanted to know. I like the snail idea!

Everyone else...thanks for suggesting a nice water test kit...but I don't need another.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

No no, its not about getting another kit(provided your kit is a liquid test kit, not those horrible strips)its about _having_ a decent kit that will give you proper readings. What we mean is, if you test your water regularly and know the behavior of your fish then even with the hardiest of fish you'll know if something is wrong in your tank.
I also agree with 1077, though I don't QT fish because I currently don't have the equipment or room to do so(working on it)this is really your best bet agents preventing disease in your aquarium.

Getting a sensitive fish and not being prepared or willing to offer it the right environment to keep it healthy and happy is just cruel, just as the use of the Canary was. Its all the same whether it be fish or bird. 
Also being more sensitive and prone to disease, these "Canary" fish would likely become sick or die even if there is nothing wrong with your tank, just because they were mistreated at the pet store or not provided with the correct environment, sending you into an unnecessary panic(as Willow suggested).
At the end of the day its just a horrible idea, far more cons then pros(only pro being theres a small chance they _may_ tell you if something is wrong. _May_.), and just plain unnecessary.


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## nomel (Jul 20, 2009)

I understand what you're saying DragonFish. But, like I said, it would be more of a"rest easy" type of indicator that would hopefully never"indicate". 

And you're right...he would get sick first if something went wrong...and, if not him, then someone else, or multiple others! I like the idea of a known weakest link rather than a random one, or multiple links breaking at once. And yes it could be considered cruel to favor one fish over another...I should love them all equally...sure...but I DO favor some over the others, especially those that cost me more (and, are "cooler"in my opinion)..and I WOULD rather "cruelly" sacrifice one fish to save my more favorite, older, established fish. The goal would be to *keep* him alive NOT let him die, then change the water! I wouldn't treat him like a disposable, fish shaped, test strip! 

And I know that good water conditions are the best way to help ensure that nothing bad happens to any of them...but what's wrong with "over testing" with a biological tester, in addition to partial water changes and frequent "water quality" checks? (in quotes, because if I went out and tested random puddles of water, in search for one to drink, using an aquarium test kit, I'd surely get sick or poisoned...they're limited in their scope...I'd like an ideal indicator...which would be one that indicates if life is sustainable). 

But still, thanks for suggesting a quality test kit... 

Anyways...I'll probably try out the snail idea...I don't have any as is...and I think they're very cool!


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

I understand where your coming from, I can see why one would favor the more expensive fish over another, believe me ;-) I am merely trying to make it a little clearer as to why its rather unnecessary, inaccurate, and, in my personal view, a bit cruel. It seems I must not be explaining it right....
I stress again, if you know your fish well then you know the 'weakest link' in your tank....but even then it could be a totally other fish that gets something. Its chance with disease really, you may have more sensitive fish that are fine yet loose a hardier fish to dropsy. What I'm trying to say is, there really is no sort of 'indicator fish' for disease. And what I mean by stressing the test kit is that if you know your levels then you should know your water quality, there really is no point in getting a fish to tell you this as that is, I would believe, far more unreliable then even a test strip. There is a high chance the fish will not tell you when your wanter is bad, where a test kit will no matter what. Your "Canary" fish may even thrive while your others dye out, it really depends.



nomel said:


> And I know that good water conditions are the best way to help ensure that nothing bad happens to any of them...but what's wrong with "over testing" with a biological tester, in addition to partial water changes and frequent "water quality" checks? (in quotes, because if I went out and tested random puddles of water, in search for one to drink, using an aquarium test kit, I'd surely get sick or poisoned...they're limited in their scope...I'd like an ideal indicator...which would be one that indicates if life is sustainable).


.....I'm unsure where your going with this. Of course going out to test puddles with an aquarium test kit to try and find one to drink would be ridiculous, humans are far different creatures from fish and have far different needs. A good liquid test kit like the API brand isn't 'limited in its scope'. It will tell you what you need to know and if your water is safe for your fish. You can never have a definite, ideal, 100% indicator if something is going wrong but a test kit will tell you more then any one fish or invert. Theres just that risk with fish keeping, you can never know for sure. 

End decision is up to you of course, I'm only trying to explain things a little better.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

I too feel that perhaps my meaning was unclear. If you have a reliable test kit and you use it between weekly water changes,, the results of those tests will speak volumes as to the water quality and in a short period of time,, You will know how long you may go between water changes and or filter maint. The indicator of trouble will be the sudden difference from the normal results. I seldom test my water for over time, I have learned how frequently my water needs changed or filter needs serviced. This is directly related to the size of my aquariums,numbers of fish,and frequency of feedings.
In my view,the most glaring problem with so called indicator fish is that fish don't become sick overnight in most cases. What more often as not happens is water quality gradually begins to deteriorate,fishes become stressed, then the fishes immune sytem becomes compromised which in turn allows all manner of pathogens to more easily get a hold so to speak. Many times fish are past the point of help before it or they display any visible signs of weakness. People then want to know what medications they can use to make their fish well and they want immediate results.As stated,fish don't become sick overnight in most cases, but rather it is gradual decline directly related to water quality or lack thereof. I have over the years, single handedly, murdered untold numbers of fish while learning one basic truth. Take care of your water, and fish are capable for the most part of taking care of themselves.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

In addition to previous post.. In the event one were to utilize a indicator fish or snail (which can carry disease), And said creature did indeed indicate through it's activity or lack thereof,or by some other means,, Trouble,, What would be first response by the hobbyist?
For the vast majority of people, It would be water test followed by water changes. In my view,, that pretty much eliminates the need for such indicator creatures ,for ultimately,, one would need to perform water test to help eliminate enviornmental problems and if present,, (80 percent of health issues tied to water quality) one would need to change water anyways to help alleviate situation.


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## Fishin Pole (Feb 17, 2009)

Just to add something here..............Nomel, you said about adding a snail or 2 to your tank...............Some snails hibernate for a few days at a time (least mine do)...........Would you be able to tell if your indicator snail is hibernating or dead?..........Something to consider.....


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