# Filter Media for Eheim 2217 for planted goldy tank



## zfarsh (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi Everyone,
I am buying a Eheim 2217 for a 75 gallon tank, planted, sand substrate, 6 fancy goldfish, 2 bristlenose pleco, 3 Dojo Loach. Plants will be compatible with the goldies.
Question: Should i use the media that already will come with the Eheim 2217, or should i change it, and to what exactly. I dont know if there is carbon included, if so, i would remove that first. I want something that is both effective to help remove crap from the goldies, can contain bacteria for added help to removing crap, not be bad for the plants, and can be cleaned and used for years not having to change monthly or something (exept maybe the fine filter, but i want to minimize this for the other types)
Pls help me with this task.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Get rid of any chemical media like the carbon. I'm not sure what eheims come with out of the box. For media I would personally just walk down the media isle at the petstore. See whats on sale and buy that for sponge pads. I don't care about matching brands or anything like that. A sponge is a sponge. If its the wrong size use scissors and make it the right size lol... Get a big bag of filter floss too(like pillow stuffing) this is the best thing to use for fine filtration. It does need to be replaced sooner. When ever it starts falling apart or clumping up. Mine usually lasts at least a year with monthly cleanings. All the other sponges and ceramics are good for years regardless of what it says on the packaging. Replace them if they start falling apart. If you want to go budget style, use plastic netting-type pot scrubers for the bottom level. 

What ever you use the most course/porous sponge should be on the bottom then it should work its way towards the finer sponges and lastly the filter floss. If you have ceramics or bio-only media I would stick them either in the middle or very top. You certainly don't need a bio-only media. It will work just fine full of only sponges. My rena came with some ceramics though, so I wouldn't be surprised if the eheims did too.


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## zfarsh (Mar 31, 2011)

Hey, thanks for the response, i am doing on my aquaclear 20 for my 10 gallons: Sponge, Bio-media, fine.

On the Canister, does it matter which bio media it comes with, or should i get something in particular that will last forever and help keep those bacterias???


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

zfarsh said:


> Hey, thanks for the response, i am doing on my aquaclear 20 for my 10 gallons: Sponge, Bio-media, fine.
> 
> On the Canister, does it matter which bio media it comes with, or should i get something in particular that will last forever and help keep those bacterias???


You don't need a biomedia... the sponges will provide plenty of space in most cases for bacteria growth. My canister is the only filter I have with ceramics in it and TBH it doesn't make a ton of difference IMO. That planted tank has a heavy bio-load so nitrates run the highest out of all my tanks. I run an internal with nothing but filterfloss in my 20 gallon along with more plants compared to waste load so it has a bit better water quality just due to how it is setup. 

You can buy more ceramics if you want, its really up to you. I'm never picky on brand... if it was me though I would fill it with pot scrubbers, cheap sponges, and filterfloss if it didn't come with enough media out of the box.

edit: Its tank is actually already running right? Just with a different filter? I would just tank what ever mature media you have in the current filters, put it into the canister use whatever else you have if there is extra space and call it good...


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## zfarsh (Mar 31, 2011)

No, i only have a 10g tank now, buying the 75 gallon soon, the cannister will be in this saturday, wanted to see if i should change the media it comes with in the box.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Ah Filtration, one of my favorite topics. I have some controversial opinions that I'd like to share. But first, here's a very good post in another forum about filtering media:
Beginners Guide to Filter Media - MonsterFishKeepers.com

First, lets talk about filters. You've chosen a canister and they are very good, especially for larger tanks. But I'm not a 'canister snob' and there are many other good filters out there, including HOB filters. There is a lot to be said for a filter that will allow quick and easy removal of mechanical trapped debris, so long as there is also sufficient bio-media remaining. Actually, most filters, including canisters, don't really do this well. Like my AquaClear 70 HOB, the canisters take water to the bottom and filter upward. The mechanical filtration is done in such a manner as the entire filter has to be taken apart to clean or replace the sponge or floss used for mechanical filtration. The same is true for my AC70 - the sponge is on the bottom with bio-media on top.
The 'trouble' with this is that the debris collects an decomposes, putting dissolved organic compounds in suspension which lowers water quality. What would be better would be to remove this trapped debris at least weekly and only service our bio-filter every month or every other month even. What I'd like to see is a cartridge pre-filter that's easily removed along with a good chamber for bio-filtration. In the meantime, keep your inlet tube high to filter water, not debris and let debris settle in mulm to feed the plants or remove with WWC gravel siphoning.

Then there's the flow rate. There seems to be some rule that suggests that we need to move more water faster in order to have adequate filtration. I've read we need a gph of 5-6 times the size of our tanks. So for a 75g tank, you need a filter with 375 - 450 gph. I think we're better off when the flow is slower....BUT filtering BETTER. A slower flow through a finer media will almost always result in greater clarity than faster water through courser media. So where you can, use finer media with lower flow rates.
(apples and oranges maybe...but I don' think so... In our small above ground pool with a sand filter, in time as debris cause the back pressure to rise and the flow to slow, the water becomes crystal clear. What's happening here is that the debris is actually making a finer and finer filtering media trapping smaller and smaller particulate matter and the resulting water is cleaner and cleaner. Now eventually, I have to back flush and the process begins anew - but it makes the point of finer 'media' and slower flow rate.

Okay - media. There's more choices here than you can shake a stick at...it yer prone to shaking sticks.
The first is mechanical. Some may continue to use old school filter floss. It works, but doesn't clean well and usually gets tossed and replaced. That's okay, but one dimensional. I think the sponges make more sense since they serve double duty. First they make an excellent mechanical to stop debris and second, they create an excellent environment for nitrifying bacteria...much like stand-alone sponge filters. So a sponge is a good choice for the first stage. What comes next is open to great debate. I think there can be great advantage in activated carbon, but sadly it's effectiveness is short lived and left too long, can even release back into the water what it had initially trapped. Many hobbyists have abandoned carbon altogether. I'm not using it and my tanks seem fine. So the next stage is bio-filtration using any media that can provide housing for nitrifying bacteria. As you can see from the link, there are many different things that can be used.
I would summarily exclude plastic bio-balls as well as most smooth plastic medias as they tend to work well in air-water drip systems, but not HOB's and canisters. An exception just might be the lowly nylon kitchen pot scrubbers as combined and slightly compressed, like a sponge, they would provide a vast surface area for bacteria, without flow impedance. Next are the bio-ceramics that suggest miles of surface area due to micro pores. We shouldn't ignore the potential and it seems that most modern bio-filtration systems must contain some bio-ceramics. Now I've been researching these and one stands out, if not with a grain of salt. Seachem makes some bold claims about Matrix. The bold claim is that it can not only house aerobic bacteria to convert ammonia into nitrites and nitrites into nitrates, but can also contain anaerobic bacteria to convert nitrates into nitrogen. No other bio-ceramic manufacturer to my knowledge makes such a claim.
In theory, it may be possible in the tiny recesses of the porous material that in time, 'shmutz' blocks the pore creating an anaerobic environment not unlike some regions of undisturbed substrate. The question is if the region is blocked so as to be anaerobic, how effective is nitrate to nitrogen conversion???

In any event, there are many choices, but there is one thing that represents the most important filtration of all....and that is NONE at all. I've never been to the Amazon, but I'm betting there's no filters in the water.
Fresh water is fresh because it's constantly replaced by rains. So the very best water quality in our aquariums is water maintenance...
- do not over feed.
- do not over stock
- consider growing living plants
*- perform weekly tank maintenance with a 25% water change using a gravel siphon (unless you have plants).*

Doing these things in conjunction with a decent filter and you will have a clean, happy aquarium. Slack off and your tank and your fish will suffer.

If you made it this far, hope you found some value in the ramblings.


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## zfarsh (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi Abbeysdad,

I went through your comments, thank you. I had gone through that link too, but wasnt sure how that transfered to a cannister, and i didnt know what are the scrabbers they keep mentioning and recommending, and where to put it.

That said, this would be a Planted Tank, so obviously no Carbon, as you mentioned. I have seen many suggest, Sponge, then Bio, then Fine Filter, however, that is for an HOB (though i am sure concept is similar with cannister, just more area and more options). The other BIG Factor, other than plants being present, are the 6 fancy goldfish, that will bring a high bio-load (the other fish wont be as much factor as the goldies)!!The Canister is chosen as it moves more water, and normally recommended on larger size tanks, also, as it is planted, it does cause as much bubles removing CO2 for a NON-co2 injected, low tech type tank. However, i was shown cheap fixes to that to make water come down gentler from the Aquaclear HOB. I was recommended to start with a cannister, and see how i do. If it needs help, i will get the Aquaclear, which honnestly i love using right now anyways on my small tank.

That Said, the Cannister most likely come with some kind of sponge, which should be re-used endlessly with cleaning in tank water. No problem there, i think.... unless i should be changing that to the scrubbers?? Or other type of Coarse Mech Filter? 
Then the Bio Fitler. I have the choice, as menioned by others, to either go sponge (which holds bacteria to a smaller degree), or use dedicated bio media. Perhaps the matrix you have mentioned is best option, and i would have so start reading on it, and have no clue what kind of cost it is, but if this will help give a higher level of filtration in this tank, i will consider it (but keeping cost in mind). Again, I am trying to do low light low tech setup as much as possible, except the filters which i am investing.

Finally, there is the final stage, which i am thinking of re-using a finer filter, tlike the floss, which i already bought alot from Big Al.... However, this is not an aquaclear which i can easily clean the filters every week (with tank water), so i am open to suggestions on this stage as what to use on a cannister. A sponge? A scrubber? i Dont know....

Finally, as mentioned before, in the link provided, they talk highly of the pot scrubbies, where does one get that, and how much are they? And where in the canister / hob would i put that?


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

zfarsh said:


> ...Finally, there is the final stage, which i am thinking of re-using a finer filter, tlike the floss, which i already bought alot from Big Al.... However, this is not an aquaclear which i can easily clean the filters every week (with tank water), so i am open to suggestions on this stage as what to use on a cannister. A sponge? A scrubber? i Dont know....
> 
> Finally, as mentioned before, in the link provided, they talk highly of the pot scrubbies, where does one get that, and how much are they? And where in the canister / hob would i put that?


If it was me, I'd use sponge or floss as the initial mechanical filter, then I might use the pot scrubbers, followed by bio-ceramic, then a final, fine sponge polisher.

The nylon pot scrubbers can be found in the housewares section of many stores, but I've heard you can get them really cheap at many dollar stores.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

I really do not recommend filter floss anywhere near the first media in a canister unless you want to clog the thing. Filter floss is generally very fine, especially when wet. It does biological and very fine mechanical filtration. I use mine as the very very last media water flows through in my canister. Then I fill gaps with the stuff.

The eheim 2217 should be plenty all by itself for your tank. My 55 gallon is stocked heavier and is a planted tank as well. I use a rena xp3 which does just fine if flow is turned down halfway lol. Water stays clear unless the tanks larger inhabitants are moving around. I clean mine every 4-6 weeks I think. Below is a picture of some of the stuff that comes out of the media, definitely not all of it...;-)


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## zfarsh (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi, thanks for the responses.

I went to Big Al to see what was included media. I guess i would start by changing the Carbon by Purigen, seems like an easy change. I hurd good things about the Ehfisubstrat Pro, so no problem there. However, what is the ehfimech, looks like noodles, how can this be the mech, is it any good? Should i change this to a sponge or scrubber?


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Mikaila31 said:


> I really do not recommend filter floss anywhere near the first media in a canister unless you want to clog the thing. Filter floss is generally very fine, especially when wet. It does biological and very fine mechanical filtration. I use mine as the very very last media water flows through in my canister.


Fine filtration should absolutely be done in the first stages to prevent organic solids from reaching the chemical and/or biological media as the 'shmutz' can have a fouling counter productive affect in those stages.

For what it's worth, it appears you should service your filter more often.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

AbbeysDad said:


> Fine filtration should absolutely be done in the first stages to prevent organic solids from reaching the chemical and/or biological media as the 'shmutz' can have a fouling counter productive affect in those stages.
> 
> For what it's worth, it appears you should service your filter more often.


I always do fine filtration very last in my canister. The more spread out it is the more stuff that will be caught via the gradient and longer the filter can run without have flow be effected. I've never seen any effect of mulm on my ceramic noodles I don't see what it could harm in the first place. The rena is setup with flow through 30 ppi sponges, 20 ppi sponges, ceramics, random AC sponges, filter floss, and more filter floss. Which is how they recommend running it....

As for cleaning canisters, it should look like that if its doing its job right. And its a planted tank, keeping mulm out of a planted tank is like keeping rain out of the rainforest:lol:. Besides in my belief it is beneficial in a planted tank. I'm pretty sure half the substrate in my smaller 20 gallon consists of that stuff.


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Kids today just don't listen. 
It seems to me that you really do want to filter the crud in the first stage so as not to sludge up your chemical and/or bio-filtration, especially when you trap it with fine material in your last stage. 

Oh, and pick up your room! :smile:


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## underh2o (Nov 8, 2010)

*I would suggest that you use what comes with you ehiem!! The way that it is layerd works great. The ehfimech (noodles) catch and trap large debris, your next layer is a coarse sponge, than the bio media and finaly a fine sponge.. They say to change a portion of the bio media with each cleaning but that* i*up to you. I have four ehiems running for allot of years the only thing I change are the sponges when they get a little old. Its a great filter which you can modify to what ever you like but why mess with success?? *


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## zfarsh (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi Underh2o, when you say the only thing you change is the sponge, do you mean actually the fine filter floss at the last stage, cause i figured that the only thing i would change if not having the carbon, and replacing the carbon with purigen and regenrating it?

Also, pls confirm you never personnaly change part of your bio (ehfi substrat pro), i think they say 1/3 per year, but i preffer not doing this.


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## underh2o (Nov 8, 2010)

zfarsh said:


> Hi Underh2o, when you say the only thing you change is the sponge, do you mean actually the fine filter floss at the last stage, cause i figured that the only thing i would change if not having the carbon, and replacing the carbon with purigen and regenrating it?
> 
> Also, pls confirm you never personnaly change part of your bio (ehfi substrat pro), i think they say 1/3 per year, but i preffer not doing this.


Yes I change both filter pads or sponges {what ever you prefer to call them ) when they get old. Untill that time I just rince them well. I have used filter floss instead of the fine sponge but only when I did not have a new sponge. I would not suggest using floss to replace the first (coarse sponge) because it will clog quickly.


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## Skooter (Apr 30, 2011)

So I should reconsider using 2 Aqueon 50's on my 55gl with 20% plants and 20ish tetras,small pleco,ruby shrimp's.. I am currently using similar set up on smaller tank and all seems well for the last 6 mo.Economically hob's are ideal over anything else..IMO


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

AbbeysDad said:


> Kids today just don't listen.
> It seems to me that you really do want to filter the crud in the first stage so as not to sludge up your chemical and/or bio-filtration, especially when you trap it with fine material in your last stage.
> 
> Oh, and pick up your room! :smile:


All my stages trap mulm to varying degrees. 1st stage is coarse filtration, 2nd stage is bio-filtration(ceramics), 3rd is fine filtration(floss). There is mulm in all stages when I clean it.... that picture was the first rinsing of the 1st and 2nd stage.... 

All my media is pushing 4 years or so except the filter floss which lasts like a year maybe. 

My room makes my filter look clean:roll:.


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## Skooter (Apr 30, 2011)

Just curious on why all the carbon haters. Is it not the best way to combat ammonia when using HOB's. I'm starting my 55gl tank. and have two millinnum 2000 hob's..It has the plastic media that is designed to catch large debris and create bio but if I just use that and some sort of filter screen, is that enough?.I do water changes weekly and since I use fine sand I can control what the fish leave on top.20% Live plants wood porous rock, pleco,ruby shrimp and heard of Neon's.


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## zfarsh (Mar 31, 2011)

carbon removes the nutrients that the plant require. Since my tank is planted, i dont want the carbon filter. Also, carbon filter has to be changed too often, but as other have suggested, should be kept in stock for when adding medications or other cases when really necessary, but temporary.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Skooter said:


> Just curious on why all the carbon haters. Is it not the best way to combat ammonia when using HOB's. I'm starting my 55gl tank. and have two millinnum 2000 hob's..It has the plastic media that is designed to catch large debris and create bio but if I just use that and some sort of filter screen, is that enough?.I do water changes weekly and since I use fine sand I can control what the fish leave on top.20% Live plants wood porous rock, pleco,ruby shrimp and heard of Neon's.


Carbon does not remove ammonia as far as I know... the big issue though is its cost and your lucky if it stays active for a week at most. It can do a few things, but the cost vs benefit is very skewed. Though, there is nothing carbon can do that can't be done via some other method, like a water change....


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## Skooter (Apr 30, 2011)

zfarsh said:


> carbon removes the nutrients that the plant require. Since my tank is planted, i dont want the carbon filter. Also, carbon filter has to be changed too often, but as other have suggested, should be kept in stock for when adding medications or other cases when really necessary, but temporary.


This sadly does not answer my question. If anyuthing I'm getting more annoyed by bad information. If you use plant food suplements and carbon filters should be replaced every 3 to 4 months on average then once again "why not carbon" explain to me what is an alternative to combat ammonia from spikeing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zfarsh (Mar 31, 2011)

sorry for my bad information


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Skooter said:


> This sadly does not answer my question. If anyuthing I'm getting more annoyed by bad information. If you use plant food suplements and carbon filters should be replaced every 3 to 4 months on average then once again "why not carbon" explain to me what is an alternative to combat ammonia from spikeing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If your only replacing them every 3 to 4 months carbon is having about nil effect on the tank overall. We already went over the fact that carbon doesn't absorb ammonia. So its not acutally going to stop any ammonia spiking, which should not happen in the first place. All carbon does is absorb a bunch of stuff out of the water, both good and bad stuff till it is saturated then it just sits there being useless. What exactly it absorbs depends on the water and a lot of chemical variables and equilibriums... No tank needs carbon to properly function period. Because of this and given its cost, most people do not use it....


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

zfarsh said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I am buying a Eheim 2217 for a 75 gallon tank, planted, sand substrate, 6 fancy goldfish, 2 bristlenose pleco, 3 Dojo Loach. Plants will be compatible with the goldies.
> Question: Should i use the media that already will come with the Eheim 2217, or should i change it, and to what exactly. I dont know if there is carbon included, if so, i would remove that first. I want something that is both effective to help remove crap from the goldies, can contain bacteria for added help to removing crap, not be bad for the plants, and can be cleaned and used for years not having to change monthly or something (exept maybe the fine filter, but i want to minimize this for the other types)
> Pls help me with this task.


The eheim 2217 Comes with all media needed and I would set it up just like the directions or photos on the box indicate Minus the carbon.
Would rinse all of the media that comes with the filter before using.
BIO-MEDIA is important for messy fish like goldfish.
Can avoid ammonia spikes by not overfeeding,not over stocking,and water changes.With enough plant's in the tank and taking care not to do the afore mentioned (over feeding,overstocking) ammonia should be a non issue in a CYCLED tank.
Am doubtful you could add enough plant's to absorb or take in ammonia created by six goldfish (hence the needed Bio- media and cycled tank).
Carbon after a period of time is less effective but does become home for good bacteria like nearly anything placed in the filter sponges,pads,etc.


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## Skooter (Apr 30, 2011)

My apologies..Just a little frustrated.. I have had nothing but success in my current aquarium so I decided to get a larger one and then found this site. Since then I am a little paranoid about imo's over general knowledge. Sounds like carbon is not a big favorite but its been part of my success for years so I will move on with what works..Thanks again!!


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## AbbeysDad (Mar 28, 2011)

Skooter said:


> My apologies..Just a little frustrated.. I have had nothing but success in my current aquarium so I decided to get a larger one and then found this site. Since then I am a little paranoid about imo's over general knowledge. Sounds like carbon is not a big favorite but its been part of my success for years so I will move on with what works..Thanks again!!


Hey Skooter,
Activated carbon is effective in absorbing 'impurities' in water, however, so are plants and so carbon competes with plants for some elements in suspension. Also, carbon is somewhat short lived in effectiveness and is probably only really typically effective as a chemical absorbent for a week or so. Carbon is not typically considered a bio-filtration media, however, aerobic bacteria will call carbon home like any other material in a filter - however, it is not as effective at this as other bio-media.
The real issue in upgrading to another tank is the nitrogen cycle process. If you haven't already, read up on the ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate -> nitrogen process.
Aquariums need time to stabilize to provide enough nitrifying bacteria to handle the bio-load. Otherwise, there is a potential for a catastrophic ammonia spike that may kill your fish. Your best approach wherever possible is to bio-seed the new tank with bacteria from an established tank. This is well documented here and as mentioned, transfer only a few fish at a time. But in order to cycle, you must have a constant supply of ammonia. You might consider stabilizing a new tank with a fishless cycle, but if you do, (just my humble opinion) don't use the stinky dead shrimp method!

Anyway, you can continue to use carbon as/if you like. Folks here are only "down on carbon" because it's counter productive with plants and is very short lived in effectiveness. 

Having 'said' the above, depending on your water source, carbon can be a strong ally in achieving and maintaining the best quality aquarium water. If you have your best success using carbon and don't mind the modest expense of replacing it weekly or every other week, don't let anyone here convince you that it's wrong - activated carbon has been successfully used in aquarium water management for over 30 years!
As mountain man Mr. Edwards on Little House said "the trouble with friends is they're all the time trying to give you ADvice." 
The opinions of 'experts' here must always be taken with a grain of salt. :smile:


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## Skooter (Apr 30, 2011)

Nicely put and two the point!!.. After googling this morning I am going to go carbon free. I used API's Stress zyme + to help jump start the "Cycle". Its been 10mo now and I have not lost anything other than my sacred Bamboo shrimp I crushed wile relocating a rock. .. Hoping when I do the switch next week everyone is happy. Not like you can kill a Neon or Pleco.Well I guess you could I just have not


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