# 90 Gallon stocking



## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I am switching my all male african cichlid tank to a peaceful freshwater tank. I used to have a live bearer 20 gallon aquarium and enjoyed watching the breeding process. Had many baby survive without even having to separate them.

I want a colorful tank without the aggression of the africans. I was looking at possibly some cardinal tetras for my schooling fish (maybe 10?) and then maybe some platys in hopes of having some breeding action (1m 5f if sex-able) .

Other than that I'm not sure what else would make a cool community. Possibly a few Roseline Sharks?

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions!!


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

I wouldnt do cardinals with platys. They like completely different water chemistry. But you can. I would personally do a nice big thick planted tank. I would probably put 4-6 angels, probably some nice big schools of cardinals (12), rummynose (12), cooper rasboras (24) (MUCH smaller than harlequins), and hatchets (12). Probably a 2 pairs of dwarf cichlids, 6 or so cories, 5ish yoyo loaches, 6 or so otos and a nice group of plecs, probably 3 bristlenose, and 2 clowns or rubberlips. Than that would be it. It would be mostly an amazon tank. You could do roseline sharks (6+) if you would like. I'm just telling you how I would most likely stock the tank. Have you thought of breeding rams, apistos, kribs, or any other dwarf cichlids?
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

well i only have one tank setup and I dont want to have to set up another tank to raise the fry. What i liked about platys and swordtails was that they could breed easily and I would just feed the fry living in the floating plants microworms and many would survive. Id have to lookinto rams but from what i remember reading in the past they arent as easy to just let breed and have survivors in a community tank.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Dude it's only a 90 gallon! It's big but it's not THAT big. Not big enough for roselines, and not big enough to accommodate 5 plecos.



I would decide on a centerpiece fish and work around that.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well i would make it planted and have extremely good filtration. 5 "dwarf" plecs isnt that much. If you dont do your wc, not a good filter and dont have a lot of driftwood, than yes it would be WAY to much. Dont the sharks only get 4in? If im wrong please correct me. Yes you would have to remove the babies. What about wrestling halfbeaks? They are easy livebearers and like acidic water (i believe), like the cardinals. +1 on thinking of a centerpiece first.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

well i have driftwood but definitely dont want plecos. They make more of a mess than they clean IME. I think the roselines would work as they only get 6" tops....but i dont need to have them. I agree with looking at a center piece fish. What about two pairs of rams or apistos? Could they breed in a tank and defend there young if there were other docile fish with them?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Yes they with guard them. But sometime even cories get fry. It is hard to do. Cuz most fish will go after fry. Especially at night. Kribs are one of the best parents, they would have a good chance. Same with angels. But you will need a grow out tank or something because your tank will get grossly overstocked with 50+ rams. Or with 2 pairs 100+.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes i dont expect 100% survival rate by leaving them in the tank. Even if only handful survive it would be ok. I have a good relationship with my LFS so I can always sell or exchange my fish with them, no issue. Have done that with even convicts. If they take convicts, theyll take anything I give lol. Im going to look at making either bolivians or apisots my main fish. Any suggestions on tank mates based on that?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Male BN plecos grow to 6 inches. Pretty large for a "dwarf".

I have roselines in my 125 - I would never consider keeping them in a smaller tank. A school of 6 inch fish is quite a large biomass of fish. Add to that their activity level and there's just no way a 4 foot tank is appropriate for a log term home.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

My concern would be all the plecos in addition to the otos. What are the otos going to eat? They can't compete with 4-6" plecos for food.


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I already said Im NOT adding plecos guys lol


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Yes lol. I just told babarian how I would stock it. Plus IME plecos eat algae on large surface area stuff (glass, big rocks, driftwood, large leaved plants (swords, crypt, ect.), than the otos eat it where the plecos can physically get. Like small leaved plants (rotalas, glosso, ludwigias, ect). I would not mix the to if you arent going to plants the heck out of the tank. Babarian i guess you could do rams if you want to. Would that be your centerpiece?
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes they would. I just have a redtail shark and two clown loaches I'd want to stay with them


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

I would get rid of the red tail, and increase the loaches.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

90 gallons isn't large enough for clown loaches.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well if they are small, you could keep them. They grow pretty slow.
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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Flint said:


> 90 gallons isn't large enough for clown loaches.



Agreed. They require a REALLY large tank once grown - larger than the vast majority of people can accommodate.

I fail to understand what the growth rate has to do with anything.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

I agree also. But if they are babies than you can have them. If they are 7+ than i would rehome them.
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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I suspect that you don't have a lot of experience with botine loaches, otherwise you would never suggest getting rid of them once they are big.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well I have 3 yoyos, that are thriving. So could you enlighten me?
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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Yes I'd be happy to. People tend to LOVE their loaches and all their loachy antics. I'm sure you will love yours, and when you've had them for a while I think you will better understand what I am talking about.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ya i get that. But you could always trade them in at the lfs (or even my petco would) for some babies again. That is what i would personally do, cuz i love raising babies to adults. Its sort of like a puppy that you raise to a dog.
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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

tankman12 said:


> Ya i get that. But you could always trade them in at the lfs (or even my petco would) for some babies again. That is what i would personally do, cuz i love raising babies to adults. Its sort of like a puppy that you raise to a dog.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sooooooo, you trade in your grown dogs for puppies???

Yes, it IS kinda like raising a puppy to a dog. That's the whole point that I am making.....

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're talking beyond your experience.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

No obviously not. But fish are different. So back to the regular topic. Are you going to add some schooling fish?
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

Lets all relax and be nice guys. I don't personally care whether you keep fish to raise them to early adulthood or till they die. I took the clown loaches off a friend who had them(as 2" babies) in a 30 gallon. I knew they could grow to around 12" so I took them from him in hopes that my 4ft tank would be better than the 2ft tank they were sold in at my LFS and his 30 gallon... I personally think that a 4ft tank is large enough to let them reach adult size as I hear that they take a few years to reach that size, BUT I can agree a 6ft tank would be a much more ideal fit. I am willing to part with them if I know theres a better place for them. I like yoyo loaches better anyway.

A schooling fish would be cool too. I want an active tank with breeding and alot of movement at all levels of the aquarium.


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I'm thinking something like 4 bolivian rams (hopefully get at least one pair and rehome the others if need be), 5 yoyo loaches, 4 swordtails (I have found them hardy enough to adapt to a wide range of water paramaters) and a schooling fish (which I would need suggestions for)

Thoughts on this and possible changes or forseen problems?


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

How about serpaes as your schooling fish? Or black/white skirts?

Here's what I would do -

7 Yoyo Loaches
10 Swordtails 3m:7f (only the males have the tail extension)
2 Bolivian Rams
15 Whiteskirt Tetras
2 Albino Bristlenose Plecos 

You will probably have to start off with 3 plecos if you want them so you can get a m/f pair.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Barbarian DOESN'T want plecos. So no plecos. Also i personally have found bolivians a pain to breed, though I have done it. Also serpeas or white/black skirt tetars wouls eat those fry in a heat beat. I would say do something that wouldn't eat the fry. Like pencilfish, dwarf rainbows, hatchets, or any other fish that stays at the top or have very small mouths. I wouldn't do the swordtails. If you have to have a livebearer like that, do the platys, that you wanted to begin with. Ime i find platys to be more hardy. I had them breeding when the ph was below 6. The swordrails never even really thought of it. How about angels? There pretty easy to breed and raise the fry. Plus more will probably survive, cuz the parents will be the biggest things in there, so not a lot of fish will want so go eat their babies.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

The swordtails/platies are going to make a quick meal of fry, too. There aren't fish you can keep in a tank with other breeding fish that won't eat fry. That is why breeders breed fish in species tanks.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Yup


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well fish like the ones i listed, will stay away more than serpaes would.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't agree with that at all.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

So what do you agree with? That pencilfish and hatchets are aggressive fry eating fish? Serpaes eat fry, that is a fact.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Platies eat fry, that is a fact. They actually eat their own fry as they come out or trail birthing mothers to eat their fry as they come out. All fish will eat whatever will fit in it's mouth. That is a fact.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Yes that is true. But a tank with 10 platies and 8 big predatory tetras the fry have no chance. In a tank with 10 platies and 8 small non predatory tetras, the fry obviously have a much greater chance.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Uhhhhh, serpaes are FAR from big predatory fish...


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

I meant that towards the white/black skirt tetras. Serpaes are just a little smaller and less mean.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Serpae tetras are much more aggressive than skirt tetras.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

No way! Maybe with hunting fry. But that is it.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes all fish eat fry but if provided with the right aquarium with hiding spots and thick plants some can survive. I do agree my platies seemed to breed better and be more hardy than my swords so maybe id go back to those instead. I don't like white skirt tetras so I would get a different type than that.

Im thinking.

6 platies 2m, 4f
7 yoyo loaches
4 rams (to let them pair off or stay together if its peaceful)
12 rummynose tetras

MAYBE
some ottos or a golden algae eater if algae is a problem. I find golden algae eaters the best fish for cleaning algae. Took one a week to completely clean my 20 gallon tank...impressive!


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Golden Chinese algae eaters? Arent they aggressive? I would do a lot more rummynose, like 30+. They look so much better in a massive school. Plus they are going to be your only schooling fish. So you want it to be impressive.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Golden Algae Eaters need schools if I'm not mistaken. I would use nerite snails if algae becomes an issue. Socking looks good, you can up your tetras if you want.


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I didnt know golden algae eaters needed to be in groups...I have always kept than in pairs max. Now ill have to look into that.

Im glad the stock sounds good. Now I need to find a place that sell nice rams. I went to the LSF nearest my house today and saw they had the rummmynose, and platies but they only had blue balloon rams...which I dont want. Once I find the rams i want I can sell my Africans and start looking into getting some plants. 

I never had success with plants and dont want to invest in a Co2 system or anything like that. Im hoping that The plants will survive and thrive with just my sand substrate and maybe some fertilizer dosing? Any advice on that aspect?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Get as many plant supplements you can. So you could get excel, comprehensive, trace, iron, and potassium. The other too nitrogen and phosphorus you dont really need. But they will help. Also some root tabs will help. Just follow this dosing chart.  You can change it around a little. It will help you a lot.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I follow this dosing schedule every week?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

If you can, yes. But you don't have to.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

Do you really believe they make that much of a difference with plants? I just want to be sure that if I invest my money in that then I will actually see some results. If it means my plants will grow and spread then it is worth it.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

It definitely works. I just use excel and potassium. Cuz that is all can invest in my tanks right now. But at one time i was rolling with comprehensive, excel, trace, and potassium, and even my glosso was pearling. I dont need iron cuz i have flourite. I dont need phosphorus cuz i have well water that is rich with it. I dont need nitrogen cuz i have a lot of fish. You sort of have to break down your tank and find out what additives you need, cuz you may not need all of them. Also what are you going to be running for lights? Also have you ever heard of diy yeats co2 setup? Im also rolling with that to, it is cheap, easy, and works.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I'm running a Fluval 48" ultra bright LED as well as two T5 lighbulbs, although cant remember what exact type. Never heard of that DIY co2 thing, mind you I never looked into it.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Yes those lights and some additives you will be fine. What spectrum are the bulbs? Do you want to know about the diy co2 system? It only costs like 5 bucks to make.
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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Oopps .. I came way to late into this convo .. Deleted my post as I'd be beating a dead horse lol 

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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Lol
size=1]_Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

lol thats ok.

I dont know the spectrum right now, I can check later tonight.
And ya im curious. If it cost 5$ and will actually help with plants it would be dumb not to consider it at least lol.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

In my 10 gallon, I ONLY dose Seachem Flourish and have sand substrate. My plants are doing great at half a cap evey 3-4 days. You don't need to spend a ton on additives to get nice results.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Flint said:


> In my 10 gallon, I ONLY dose Seachem Flourish and have sand substrate. My plants are doing great at half a cap evey 3-4 days. You don't need to spend a ton on additives to get nice results.



This is very true . Heck I even left my 55g without any additives for maybe 8 months or even a yr. used root tabs for a couple months in the beginning them totally left all that alone .. And the plants are fantastic . This pic was taken after close to a year of plant neglect . Just water changes that's it. 









You should see how pretty it is today .. I have my 75g temporarily in front of it so it's nearly impossible to get a pic . Since this picture I've dosed flourish maybe 2 times and aquavitro Envy 1 time (yesterday lol) out of maybe nothing other then boredom . Even own a co2 system I bought for it 3months ago and have yet to bother taking it out of the box lol 


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Okay so this is my setup. I have a regular big plastic juice bottle, i think it is like 1.8 liters or something like that. Then drill a hole in the lid and squeeze some airline tubing in the hole. Only put about 1 inch of airline tubing in the bottle. Than a check valve, than some more tubing into a diffuser or a powerhead. Now on to where the action happens. Fill tge bottle about half way with warm water. Put 2 cups of sugar in the bottle, shake. Then put 1 tablespoon of yeast in. Than shake again. Here is what mine looks like  Excuse the wall paper (NEEDS to be changed) and my karate belts. This is what i use for a diffuser I get 100% diffusion and it was only 10 bucks! But its pretty big. So this is all you need
2 juice or soda bottles (i would say to 1 on each side) $0
Sugar $3
Yeast, i use the Fleischmann's Rapidrise highly active yeats, get it at target for $2
Airline tubing $2
Diffuser or powerhead $10
Check valve $3
Total of $20. Sorry i was a little off. But it works and is cheap. Some of the plants look crappy cuz i just got free ones from petco yesturday. You dont need all those additives. I said that. But a couple do help. I just have this diy co2 system, excel, and potassium. My plants pearl all the time. Even my glosso and lace plant.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

So that's basically the cheap fluval co2 system altered ? 
I'm curious though , wouldn't that not release an even consistent amount ? I don't know. I've never wanted to venture to DIY co2. I don't trust either myself or it or both lol 


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

Thats great to hear I think Ill start with just two types of ferts and see how that goes. Good to know I can make that Co2 infuser though if I need to in the future. I can post a pick of my current tank now and keep you guys updated in the coming weeks as I make the transition. I have a pet store near my house that said they can order rams for me so now I wont have to spend tons of time looking. I can start selling my fish and making the transition. Probably going to start by adding the yoyo's and platies, then the tetras followed by the rams if all goes according to plan. If im lucky in the next month it may all be setup. Who knows!!

Thanks for all the help and I appreciate any other tips or questions to. You guys are aewsome.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Np. Good luck. Planted tanks are so fun!
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I also think that I may go the german blue ram route instead of bolivian. Just a little more color


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Do electric blues. Or a pair of both.
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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Electric blue rams are REALLY pretty I have a pair . Their name is right .. They almost glow.









They are brighter now .. The pic doesn't do them justice . 


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

:bluelaugh: They are so young in this pic


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

AHHHH now I don't know what type of rams to get.....lol. Theyre all so cool in a different way. I need help choosing again lol. Ill look up prices and maybe that will help me decide!
Also wouldnt the yoyo loaches eat any eggs laid on or around the substrate?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Yes they would. But if you plant the heck out of the tank (so the parents can hide the nest), and also keep the loaches well fed. You shouldn't have a problem. Also this is how much the rams cost in my area
Bolivians $5
Gbr $7
Gold $7
Electric $20
I would say get a pair of the gbr and the electrics. Unless you can find some really nice golds. Most of the time their not the best looking.

Plus are you going to get the cardinals? I would say do it there super nice.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

The tough part is getting a pair. They dont normally sell fish in pairs where I live and if they do you just have to show up at the right time. Most local breeders only deal with african cichlids, which is where I bought my current fish. 
Gonna have to go check that lfs (probably tomorrow) and see how it works if they ordered for me and what is available and sizes,sex, etc.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well you don't have to get a bonded pair. Just get the to in the tank that seem to stick together. That is what i do and then they breed in a month or two. Also rams can interbreed, besides the bolivians they are not the same fish. But the electrics, golds, and german blues are the same fish just different colors. I dont know if you knew that or not.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I had no idea haha thats good to know. So get 4 out of that mix of three could produce some differnt pairings and give me a better chance than 2 bolivians and 2 electric


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Exactly. So you could get 1 gold 1 gbr 2 electrics or any mix of that. Just make sure you have 2 males and 2 female. Or you could do three pairs in that size tank if you wanted.
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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

I bought three and after a couple months a pair formed so I gave back the third wheel.

I'll warn though breeding rams isn't so easy . They'll lay eggs sure but they'll eat their own fry.. They're terrible parents . You have to remove the eggs and hatch them yourself .. And raise them in another tank. It's a pretty complicated process .


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

They stink at the first couple but by there 4th or 5th their usually fine. Or at least that is what happen with my pairs.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

As with any cichlids some are good parents and others arent im sure. I have to hope to get lucky I guess but I realize the odds are not in my favor for fry surviving. That kinda sucks. I loved watching my convicts heard the fry around the aquarium and feed them micro worms.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Lol ya breeding cichlids is AWESOME. My shellies just breed and have eggs and there cool. U could still get the rams and will probably get a least 1 good pair if you get 3 pairs.
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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

UPDATE---
So I setup my tank and started stocking a couple weeks ago and thought i'd share the progress.

90 gallon semi planted with water wisteria. 3 types of amazon swords, hornwort, narrow leaf ludwigia (I think) and some java moss tied to rocks and a bit to driftwood. 
Using white sand and flourite as substrates.I dose API leaf zone flourish one or twice a week but i will cut back now and see if the plants will continue growing without it.

For fish I have 6 platies 1m:5f
2 elelctric blue rams 1m:1f
2 german blue rams 2m

The first day I added the fish i found two small platy fry swimming but with the lack of floating cover I fear they have been eaten. I am planning to propagate my water wisteria and use the clippings as floating cover along with my piece of floating driftwood.

ALSO my female electric blue and a male german blue have paired up and have laid eggs after only a couple weeks last night. I was sure the electric blues were too small to spawn but apparently not. You'll see how small they are when i post pictures either today or tomorrow I hope. I was thinking of starting another thread with the start to finish setting up the tank so keep an eye out for that too if you guys are interested.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I'll wait for Agent to come comment on that ram stocking. A pair and extra males worries me especially because a 90 has the footprint of a 75..


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

oh I just picked up four unsexed rams, I made my best guess cause the people had no idea of sexes and I got lucky that a pair formed already. I want two pairs so will rehome a male and try to switch him for a female. I dont intend to keep the extra males indefinitely


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Or you could just get 2 more females. In a 90, 3 pairs would be fine. It is not really recommended to only have 2 pairs. Cuz than you get a dominant pair.
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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I wouldn't do three pairs in a 90. This tank may be 90 gallons but rams are bottom dwellers and it has the footprint of a 75. I'll direct Agent here.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Electric blue rams are actually about half the size GBRs are when full grown so your mixed pair are both old enough to breed. What a cool pair to have formed! congrats. Interracial couple? lol 

I whole heartedly agree no more males. 2 Pairs may be ok but 3 absolutely not.. and 2 males(total) will ONLY work if it is with 2 paired sets (your interracial pair *lol!* and another bonded pair). Even extra females would be an issue. They may be small fish but they have large personalities and don't like other Rams aside from their mate . I can't even safely have more then one pair in my 225g yet .


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

Based on observing my tank layout and the behavior of the young rams so far I don't see where a third pair could claim a territory without constant disputes from both sides. The two probable spawning areas I have (one of which is claimed) are on opposite sides of the tank and provide plenty of space for the rams to breed undisturbed by the other pair. I think I like two pairs better for this reason. Im just unsure what rams i would want for my second pair. Possibly the same male german ram and female electric blue as my other pair.

Also Im not getting any bottom dwellers like cories or loaches, instead id rather stock the rest of the tank with mid-surface swimming fish (to go with the platy's)


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Sounds good to me!
Do you know how to sex electric blues? It's hard but look for a slightly shorter body, no extended 2 or 3rd dorsal ray(the black ones) they'll be longer then the 1st but those 2 should match or closely match the length on the blue dorsal rays. Females will have a rounded dorsal fin at the end not pointy like males. Ventral fins will be shorter on females as well. Anal fin tends to be a bit more roused on females and pointy on males(however that last one is only 70% of the time IME.

Good luck


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

I wasn't 100% sure when I bought them but thought I had a male n female and i do so I guess i did ok 
They all have rounded dorsal fins and obviously no pink belly on electric females lol. I find the extended ray the only visible difference between the two that I can see now. Ill take a look at ventral fins also and see if that helps a bit too. Should I buy two females and let the last male choose or just trade in the male for one female and hope for the best and i get lucky again?


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## babarian16 (Mar 17, 2011)

Started another thread with pictures if you guys are interested, please chime in 
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/cichlids/new-ram-90-gallon-start-finish-443690/#post4968026


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