# Ammonia won't go away, help!!!!



## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

I am new to this forum so first and foremost, hi everyone. I'm sorry if this has been addresses before but no amount of google answers have worked for me to date. 

A little background, I have a 35 gallon warm freshwater tropical aquarium. It was my husbands as a child but we scrubbed it with vinegar and water for days before setting it up and replace all the substrate and decorations. After about two weeks of having it up and running with filter and all we started to add some fish. At first I only added 2 baby mollys(my fish at work had babies so I brought the survivors home when I found them do I did not overcrowd my 10 gallon at work). At this point everything is still crystal clear ( I filled it with water from the hose initially because after testing my home water everything was fine; we have a well, not city water) an the levels were perfect. We added fish slowly, a Molly here a play there a few glass catfish, until i was comfortable with the fish we had knowing we had purchased livebearers that will likely reproduce. Everything was well for about a month until I tested the water one day and the ammonia had spiked drastically. It was at about 5.0! I was afraid for my fish so I immediately went to the pet store and bought ammo lock and a bacteria supplement. The levels never came down so I did a 25% water change, there was a small drop but nothing as significant as I needed. My fish slowly started dying off which broke my heart. I got another tank to move them to while I scrubbed my tank clean. Rinsed the rocks, replaced the filter with a bio wheel, and filled the tank with water I had purchased from the store. Everything was perfect, by this time I only had 4 fish left. I only fed 2 flakes each once a day for weeks and the levels spiked again! They are at 8.0 now, I've done daily water changes 10% for a week and nothing helps!! Help me! I had 1 platy, 1 glass catfish and 1 corycat left and fear they will soon die as well! I've tried everything!!! I don't know what to do anymore, I have even started over from scratch and it spikes each and every time within a few days.


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## dmuddle (Nov 14, 2011)

Okay i think you may need to get your local petstore to give you the best items that will remove ammonia, it may be a ph kit any minor changes may make the ammonia go away. It could be that some fish will create more ammonia than others.


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

dmuddle said:


> Okay i think you may need to get your local petstore to give you the best items that will remove ammonia, it may be a ph kit any minor changes may make the ammonia go away. It could be that some fish will create more ammonia than others.


I have been to 2 different pet stores and gotten 5 different suggestions. After reading earlier posts I am thinking I should get some fast growing plants to help, what I any explain is why it keeps happening. I have a bio wheel fit for 55 gal and only a 35 gallon tank. I have tried ammo lock, prime, bacteria supplement(ha to add after getting a filter that I thought would be more adequate.)


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## Maxillius (Sep 27, 2011)

hello and welcome to TFK! I recommend you reading about cycling here
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/
then after 
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/basic-guide-freshwater-fish-stocking-38626/
and third stop scrubbing everything clean  because that is where bacteria grow. 
and fourth! be patient  an aquarium cycle take from 2 to 8 weeks to complete depending on a lot of different things
meanwhile the only way to save your fish is drastic water change each day or 2 with a good water conditioner to remove chlorine(wich would kill your starting bacteria) like if you have that high ammonia right now I would do a 80% water change wait an hour and do a second one
never vaccume your substrate during cycling
and yes live plants do help but you will need a lot of them to be able to not notice any cycle


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

I have decided not to use the water from my tap, we don't even drink it. I will have to do the water change tomorrow when I can get to the store tomorrow to fill my 5 gallon bottles


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## Maxillius (Sep 27, 2011)

what is wrong with your tap water?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm fairly certain this is the cycling. Read that cycle article that Maxillus linked, it will explain it. It takes time. And unfortunately Molly are highly susceptible to ammonia so they cannot survive this.

Live plants will help, and are the easiest method for new tanks. Especially floating plants or fast-growing stem plant as they use lots of nutrients including ammonia. Water Sprite, Hornwort, Brazilian Pennywort, these will work fast.

Test your well water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate though, this is worth knowing in case any of these are present.

And welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.

Byron.


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

Maxillius said:


> what is wrong with your tap water?


It's well water, there is a lot of iron in it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JImi (Jul 19, 2011)

Hi Holly,

I agree with Byron, 

This is to do with the cycle. Please read his intructions on how to to this. A tank will spike with ammonia no matter what you do, it is part of the cycling process. (unless you have a *heavily* planted tank from the outset)

Ammonia spike
Nitrite spike ammonia goes down
Nitrate spike Nitrite goes down

Again see the link for the full explanation of this. Without plants this cycle can take up to 6 weeks or more. Patience is the key and if you dont have a lot of it, look into having a planted tank. (plants eat ammonia)

I urge you to read the post by Byron, i reckon if you follow that, you should have no more problems as bad as the one you have with your Ammonia presently.

Jimi


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'm not an incredibly patient person so this must be my problem. I did read both links, thanks for that! I'm gong today to get the water i need to do water changes and try to save the 3 fish i have left though I doubt they will make it through. If nothing else, my tank has been running for 2 months; it seems as though i will have to change the water and let the cycle continue as it seems as my efforts are setting everything back. I am going to get a few plants as well because I really enjoy the look of them but I understand they will not fully fix my problem. :-?


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## Maxillius (Sep 27, 2011)

you can also ask your store or a friend if they have some gravel or anything from there aquarium they can give you . Some times something as simple as a piece of wood would help a lot for the cycling. and if you get a lot of plants it wont only help it will almost eliminate the ammonia spike and eat it all. so plant will help no mahter how many even a little


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## MinaMinaMina (Aug 28, 2011)

To emphasize two points-
Since you're essentially doing a "fish in" cycle, it is vitally important to do _at least _50% water change any time the Ammonia or Nitrite readings are over 0ppm, the Nitrate is over 20ppm, or weekly (whichever comes first). Vitally important!

Getting a ton of fast-growing plants (like Byron said) will help immensly. "Fast growing" is the key- the faster the plant grows, the quicker it will suck up the Ammonia before it gets a chance to hurt the fish. Good choices for this the plants that Byron listed, and also Duckweed. (You can click on the shaded names of plant or fish species to read more about them.) If you post the info about your lighting and water parameters (temp, pH, hardness, etc.), we can recommend the best plants for your tank.

And since you mentioned having a tank at work-
Another great way to help your cycle is to "seed" your tank with biomedia from an established, HEALTHY tank. Its important that the tank not have a history of any disease. "Biomedia" means anything on which the beneficial bacteria can grow- substrate, filter media, decorations, plants. Its important NOT to rinse off the biomedia before placing it in your tank, as the chlorine, etc in water will kill the bacteria we need. Just keep the biomedia wet in tank water and get it into your tank as quickly as possible.


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

Ok, every thing in my tank except my corycat died sometime this morning before I could get home. It looked like their scales were falling off, they were white. Should I start my cycle over? I have the corycat but should I treat the cycle like a no fish cycle? I am going to buy the plants tomorrow, how often should I test to monitor the levels? I do t want to Dd fish simply because I think the cycle may be over. I'll grab one of my decorations from work tomorrow to out in my tank. Any advice on how to proceed from this point is much appreciated.


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## MinaMinaMina (Aug 28, 2011)

The cycle is not completed. Without intervention (i.e. using a ton of fast growing plants, or seeding), the cycle takes about 6-8 weeks to complete.

You cannot do a fishless cycle method with a fish in the tank. This would be murder, there's no way a fish could survive this.

Right now- do TWO 75% water changes, back to back, immediately! Its the cory's only chance at survival. Not only is the water still polluted with the same toxins that killed the other fish, but there is now the additional toxins released from the dead fish's decay. You must do this immediately, for the sake of the cory!

You'll test your water daily during the cycle. You'll do a 50% water change every time your Ammonia or Nitrite is above 0ppm. This very well might mean _daily_ water changes for weeks during the cycle (unless intervention is utilized, either heavy planting or seeding or both, in which case you'll still test the water but will find the cycle is MUCH shorter). After the cycle is complete, you'll also do 50% water changes any time your Nitrate is above 20ppm or weekly, whichever comes first.

When you go to buy plants tomorrow, be care to only purchase the ones we've mentioned, or otherwise come back here and tell us about them first so we can inform you. Some plants sold in pet stores are not actually aquatic plants, and will slowly rot and die. They certain won't help your cycle, and will only makes things worse by adding more Ammonia with their decay! Other plants won't be suitable for your tank because of their requirements, usually light requirements. Since they can't grow well, they won't help your cycle. And their eventual death will only add more Ammonia. Some plants will do fine in your tank, but don't grow quickly enough to help with your Ammonia problem. So, unless you have a lot of money, its best to avoid those for now and instead spend money on the plants that will help the most. So, outside of Water Sprite, Hornwort, Brazilian Pennywort, and Duckweed, be sure to ask us before any other plant purchases.

And def avoid the temptation to buy more fish! I know its tempting, all those beautiful fish, but it will only make matters worse. :lol: Good luck!


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

I'm on it! I did an 80% change this afternoon and am doing a 75% change now! I don't want to murder anything!! Thanks for you help, I'll keep updating!

I will NOT buy anymore fish though i would love to see sonething swimming in our tank, i could not bear another dying on me! I promise to only buy the suggested plants. I think my local pet store has at least a few of what was suggested! I never thought of seeding my new tank at home from my tank at work sinice it's been established for 4 years( its only 10 gallon and I never knew of "cycling" so my fish survival was purely by chance and luck)! My 8 year old would especially despise it even though our "bad" water and dead fish only adds good to our compost for the garden, he is exponentially affected by the death of our fish family! Thanks from myself and son for helping educating us in extending our family!


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## MinaMinaMina (Aug 28, 2011)

Fish water does make excellent water for plants! My indoor plants have been exceedingly happy since I started my fish tanks back up. :-D

Good luck! And we're here to help with any problems you have!


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

Ok I went to the only 2 pet stores in the surrounding towns and got 1 Anubis plant, 1 pennywort(they only had 1) and 1 Asia fern. The gentleman at the pet store helped me find a book to see what they had that was the easiest to grow. 2 of those plants came from an establishe tank already and he gave me a hand full of some gravel as well. He did offer to let me bring the fish I have back so it doesn't die and they will give me an in store credit for what they would normally sell an emerald corycat for. I'm still deciding if I should take it back, I don't want to but it might save the fish! So I have 3 plants ad I bought my chemist test kit. I had a liquid test kit for ammonia prior but everything else was on a strip. I tested the water when I got home and logged it. Here are the readings:
PH- 6.0
High PH- 7.4
Ammonia- 4.0ppm
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 0 
Based on the links I read from everyone the absence of nitrite and nitrates makes me think I am very early in cycling process; is that the case?


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## AlainaToadpipe (Feb 26, 2012)

Sounds like you have a great pet store!

I'm so glad you posted about this I'm doing my first conscious tank cycle right now with my son. We just tested the water this morning, 2.5ppm for the ammonia 0 and 0 for the nitrate and nitrite levels and our water is extremely acidic. 8.0pH. I snagged some pennywort and love the look of it, aside from the ease of growth. Sounds like we need to be doing some more water changes ourselves, no fish in ours yet, we're going to be hatching some killifish when the eggs arrive, but we've got a batch of pond snails keeping the plants "company". Only down side is, of course, I think they might be eating some of the plants (they're super tiny still, but even so I'm not sure how much damage they could be/are doing. If they're going to just eat everything in the tank.... I honestly have no idea how to get rid of them. 

The tank was set up with just substrate, filter and heater for about three days, then the plants were all added. Haven't done any water changes yet. Snails were added at the same time as the plants (kind of hard to avoid. :/ 

Not sure if there are any other suggestions, other than patience on the project, especially on how to lower the acidity of the water. I haven't done any tests on our tap water to see what it's natural state is though. That will be our project for this evening, so we know what we're starting with.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

AlainaToadpipe said:


> Sounds like you have a great pet store!
> 
> I'm so glad you posted about this I'm doing my first conscious tank cycle right now with my son. We just tested the water this morning, 2.5ppm for the ammonia 0 and 0 for the nitrate and nitrite levels and our water is extremely acidic. 8.0pH. I snagged some pennywort and love the look of it, aside from the ease of growth. Sounds like we need to be doing some more water changes ourselves, no fish in ours yet, we're going to be hatching some killifish when the eggs arrive, but we've got a batch of pond snails keeping the plants "company". Only down side is, of course, I think they might be eating some of the plants (they're super tiny still, but even so I'm not sure how much damage they could be/are doing. If they're going to just eat everything in the tank.... I honestly have no idea how to get rid of them.
> 
> ...


You should not be seeing any ammonia in a tank with live plants, unless you are adding it. Are you adding any ammonia to cycle? And have you tested your tap water for ammonia? It might be from there.

Wouldn't hurt to test the tap water for nitrite and nitrate too, just to know.

And the pH at 8 is not acidic, it is basic (alkaline). pH 7 is neutral, numbers below (5, 6, etc) is acidic, numbers above 7 are basic. The higher you go up from 7 the more alkaline, just as the lower from 7 the more acidic.

Test you tap water for pH too; put a small amount of water in a jar and shake it vigorously for a minute or so to drive out the CO2, then test it for pH. This will give you a more accurate reading. It also is good to find out the hardness, as pH is connected. The water supply people can give you this, they may have a website. We want to know the GH (general hardness) and the KH (carbonate hardness or alkalinity, not to be confused with the pH "alkaline"). For some background reading, have a look at this:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/water-hardness-ph-freshwater-aquarium-73276/

And, welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.:-D

Byron.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Hollydolly1318 said:


> Ok I went to the only 2 pet stores in the surrounding towns and got 1 Anubis plant, 1 pennywort(they only had 1) and 1 Asia fern. The gentleman at the pet store helped me find a book to see what they had that was the easiest to grow. 2 of those plants came from an establishe tank already and he gave me a hand full of some gravel as well. He did offer to let me bring the fish I have back so it doesn't die and they will give me an in store credit for what they would normally sell an emerald corycat for. I'm still deciding if I should take it back, I don't want to but it might save the fish! So I have 3 plants ad I bought my chemist test kit. I had a liquid test kit for ammonia prior but everything else was on a strip. I tested the water when I got home and logged it. Here are the readings:
> PH- 6.0
> High PH- 7.4
> Ammonia- 4.0ppm
> ...


If that ammonia reading is accurate, the fish will not last. Have you used anything for the ammonia, like Prime water conditioner?

The pH needs to be resolved, obviously one of those numbers is inaccurate. What is your tap water pH? When testing tap water, shake a small amount of water in a sealed jar for a minute or so to dissipate out the CO2, then test. Find out from the water supoply people what the pH should be, and the hardness too, as they are connected [see my response to the last post]. This will tell you which test to use.


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

Byron, the tap water readings don't matter, I say this because I don't use my tap water; I use purified water that is not distilled. I tested that water and the ph is low but everything else is perfect. My tank looks gorgeous right now, but I'm working on the levels. I don't want to add too many chemicals so I'm trying to let it run it's corse. Let me know if I should be doing something different! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_W


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## AlainaToadpipe (Feb 26, 2012)

Thank you, Byron 

Hmmm... I haven't added any ammonia. I'll test the tap water and see if it's there. It is also possible it's from the substrate. I used what had been in our previous tank, rinsed the heck out of it, near boiling water etc, but it's possible I didn't get everything. Also, it is possible we misread the test kit in re the ammonia. 

Not sure why, but I ALWAYS get acidic and basic mixed up. Fortunately not to any explosive ends yet, I manage to always match like to like, but that's about it. 

We'll test the tap tonight (I did run the tap water through our drinking water filter before filling the tank). The city water site wasn't much help in re hardness etc. So I'll have to check for a kit to test that too.

*edit* Sorry, Holly, I seem to have hyjacked your thread! So sorry!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

AlainaToadpipe said:


> Thank you, Byron
> 
> Hmmm... I haven't added any ammonia. I'll test the tap water and see if it's there. It is also possible it's from the substrate. I used what had been in our previous tank, rinsed the heck out of it, near boiling water etc, but it's possible I didn't get everything. Also, it is possible we misread the test kit in re the ammonia.
> 
> ...


If you have a reliable fish store, they may test the GH and KH for you; buying a test kit for one test is best avoided if you can. If the store will test, make sure they give you the actual numbers, otherwise we will be back to zero.:roll:

I doubt anything in the gravel could cause ammonia. I've never had this. But regardless, my earlier point which I didn't explain was that live plants assimilate a lot of ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen. With sufficient plants, even when fish are introduced at first, you will not see ammonia above zero with our test kits. So, if it is testing above zero now, it has to be coming from somewhere and major, if the plants cannot handle it. I'm suspecting the tap water, so let us know that test result. Test it before it goes through the filter if you can, and test it after the filter. There is a possibility the filter is doing something.

Did you use a dechlorinator (water conditioner) when you filled the tank? And if yes, which one?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Hollydolly1318 said:


> Byron, the tap water readings don't matter, I say this because I don't use my tap water; I use purified water that is not distilled. I tested that water and the ph is low but everything else is perfect. My tank looks gorgeous right now, but I'm working on the levels. I don't want to add too many chemicals so I'm trying to let it run it's corse. Let me know if I should be doing something different!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_W


Fine, the pH test kit to use then is the one that accurately gives the true pH of the source water. If the other kit is used, it will be completely unreliable since you won't know what is happening, if that makes sense.


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## Hollydolly1318 (Mar 1, 2012)

Alaina its fine! No need to be sorry. I tested this morning and the ammonia levels seem to be gOing down. I will keep testing and doing water changes. My corycat seems very happy right now but now in struggling with how to feed it. It's a bottom water so I'm not sure what to do. Thanks for everyone's help!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Hollydolly1318 said:


> Alaina its fine! No need to be sorry. I tested this morning and the ammonia levels seem to be gOing down. I will keep testing and doing water changes. My corycat seems very happy right now but now in struggling with how to feed it. It's a bottom water so I'm not sure what to do. Thanks for everyone's help!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sinking foods are needed for substrate feeding fish like corys, loaches, many catfish. There are several kinds, those made by Omega One, Hikari and New Life spectrum are said to be the best. Variety is the best, 3 or 4 different types. Shrimp-based pellets are usually welcomed by these fish, and one should be veggie-based (algae, kelp or spirulina base). My corys really like Nutrafin's tablets so I use this brand as one of the 4 or 5 I have.


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## AlainaToadpipe (Feb 26, 2012)

Checked the ammonia levels in the aquarium again, the tap and the water in the filtered drinking water. No traces of ammonia at all. I have the feeling that when I checked the ammonia before there was something affecting the color a little bit, a reflection or something like that to make it look in between 0ppm and 2.5ppm so I erred on the side of more than less. Anyhow, that problem solved. The ph is at about 8.0 in all three though. We have some pretty hard water here, so looks like I need to soften it up a bit, but I still need to check to find out the specific GH/kH numbers. Someone suggested the pet store being able to do the test, so I'll call them today to see if they can/will. We live on an Island with some 100 sources of water, so there's no one source to go to that has all of the water stats readily available. Anyhow, making progress!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

AlainaToadpipe said:


> Checked the ammonia levels in the aquarium again, the tap and the water in the filtered drinking water. No traces of ammonia at all. I have the feeling that when I checked the ammonia before there was something affecting the color a little bit, a reflection or something like that to make it look in between 0ppm and 2.5ppm so I erred on the side of more than less. Anyhow, that problem solved. The ph is at about 8.0 in all three though. We have some pretty hard water here, so looks like I need to soften it up a bit, but I still need to check to find out the specific GH/kH numbers. Someone suggested the pet store being able to do the test, so I'll call them today to see if they can/will. We live on an Island with some 100 sources of water, so there's no one source to go to that has all of the water stats readily available. Anyhow, making progress!


Sounds good. Make sure the fish store gives you the numbers for GH and KH, this is critical. Then we can consider safe methods to lower them if necessary for the fish species.


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## aau06139 (Mar 4, 2012)

*ph? temp?*

Havn't read all previous replies but ...

When I cycled my first tank my ammonia levels stayed at 5 for over 2 weeks until I was informed that the beneficial bacteria have optimum conditions.
ph between 7.4 and 8.4
temp 29C
After achieving these conditions the ammonia dropped to 3 in 24hrs!

Patience is key also. As stated above, please stop cleaning everything. The beneficial bacteria live on the substrate, decorations, plants etc.

(This is of course easier to achieve when doing a fishless cycle as the fish don't have to handle the, less than perfect, conditions.)


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