# Advise on Filteration



## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

Hi,

I am fairly new to the fish aquarium. I have at present 17 Gold Fish in my 33 Galon Aquariium (3ft * 1ft * 1.5 Ft) and am using a mechanical filter for filteration. I do feed my fish 2 times a day (morning & evening) and 2 spoons of Ruby Red. 

Since few months i have been noticing that my water starts getting cloudy. Is it due to the filteration or due to excessive food. Please advise if i require to change my filter or any advise which i help me keep my tank clean and clear.

Thanks,
Gautam


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## jpbotha (Dec 9, 2008)

I am not expert on goldfish requirement, but water quality i suppose is the same.
What is your water change schedule and water parameters?
With regular water changes of 30-50% and cleaning the filter the water quality should increase drastically.
And maybe scale down on your feeding to only once a day


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

try to change the water once a month as earlier such kind of problem did not happen. Dont know if gravel is better or sand or onyx stone for decoration.


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## jpbotha (Dec 9, 2008)

Once a month is maybe not enough. Should try and change at least 30% per week and scale down on feeding. Regarding the substrate you will have to wait for the goldfish experts to comment.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Hi Gautam and welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.

I'm afraid you have some issues with your setup. First, goldfish need a lot of room, and 17 goldfish in a 33g aquarium is way overstocked. If you read the Profile on this fish [click on the shaded name in posts to go to that fish's profile, or click on Tropical Fish Profiles in the blue bar and find the species] you will note they recommend 10 gallons of water for each fish.

Second, water changes once a month with so many fish in the tank is no where near adequate. A 50% water change every week is basic, but that works when the fish load is reasonable to balance. In your siutation, for the health of the fish, it should be changed more often than that if they are going to remain in the 33g. I would stongly recommend you upgrade to a very large tank or consider re-homing several of the goldfish to create a more balanced bioload.

Goldfish produce a lot of waste and this affects the water quality, which I would guess is the source of your cloudy water.

Byron.


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

Hi Byron,

Thank you for your advise and suggestion. As you mentioned that i need to upgrade my tank, can you please advise on it which one to buy and what all things should be taken care while upgrading the same. Actually i do not have much of knowledge and don't want to invest in an incorrect tank. 

Also, can you please advise on the quantity of feed how much should be given.

Regards,
Gautam


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

What type of goldfish do you have? The fancy varieties stay smaller (though can still reach eight inches or more) and are slower swimmers so can be kept in smaller tanks, but varieties like comets and shubunkins grow larger and swim faster, requiring even more room. Even for 17 fancy goldies I would think you'd need at least a 180g tank, perhaps larger, while for 17 of the larger types you'd need an even bigger tank (a pond, preferably).


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Agree with iamntbatman. 

And on the food question, once a day, and only what they eat in a few minutes. Fish will naturally (if they are really healthy) always appear "hungry" and that is good. Don't let them fool you into feeding them more. Fish will eat what you give them far beyond what they actually need. And that makes things worse both from the overeating aspect, but also from the water quality worsening, and their need for oxygen increasing...all of whch in too small a tank is made worse still. Once a day, or even alternate days for mature fish (fry need more frequent feedings to develop).


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

17 Gold Fish include :

One Black Morr
Two Red Cap
Three Blue Gold
One Brass Gold
Ten Gold Fish

Would it be possible for you to please share the specification of the tank i should purchase. By Specification, i mean L*B*H and also what kind of filter to be used. Somone recommended me to feed them with Bloodworms twice a week. Is it advisable.


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

Can somone please advise what specification of aquarium should i order.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

kakkarg said:


> Can somone please advise what specification of aquarium should i order.


 

72 7/8 inches long, 25 inches wide,by 25 3/4 inches tall.
Two Fluval FX 5 filters or equivalent in gallons per hour capabilities assuming you wish to keep the numbers of goldfish you mention. IMHO.


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## mfskarphedin (May 19, 2010)

I've been keeping goldfish for many years, and I agree with the above advice: 180 US gallon tank and two excellent filters. I'd advise cleaning one filter one month, then the other filter the other month.

I'm not usually one to go for (sorry) cheezy accessories, but I'd get a large air pump and a couple bubble wands for aeration, as well. These fish require a lot of oxygen for optimum health, especially in warmer climates. I don't know what brands of air pumps are good these days, so someone else will have to answer that.

Since you said you only have "mechanical" filtration right now, I'll assume you don't know about biological filtration? If not, you can read all over the web on "biological filtration" and how to "cycle" a tank with fish, so follow those directions. You'll need a test kit to follow ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte levels. I recommend the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (APA) Master Freshwater Test Kit.

After the tank is cycled, I recommend to find out how often to change your water to use the nitrAte test kit. You'll want to do enough water changes to keep nitrates below 20ppm maximum. There should be NO ammonia or nitrIte. Change the appropriate amount of water at least once every two weeks.

To change the water, I recommend you buy a Python No-Spill Clean and Fill. It will not only let you change water without buckets, but it will also let you suck the fish poop out of the gravel, which with goldfish is very important to keep wastes down. Just add your water conditioner before re-filling the tank. Make sure the water temperature is the same.

Make sure there are large decorations such as driftwood, rocks, plants, etc, for the fancy goldfish to get out of the current and rest, since they are fairly poor swimmers and will tire easily.

I hope that all helps! 

BTW, try not to feed high-protein foods like bloodworms, because it can cause constipation and bloat. They should only be fed foods approved for goldfish. Or fed high-protein foods along with high-fiber foods like the centers of cooked peas.


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for the advise. I have decided to go with a building my own aquarium tank using toughend 12mm glass with dimensions of 5ft (L) * 2ft (W) * 20 inch (H). 
I did some reading on the web and majority recommended going in for a glass tank vs acrylic tank as the acrylic tank is more prone to get scratches with regular cleaning of glass. 
Just wondering what would be better gravel / stones / sand for my tank ? can someone please advise the best to be used.Also, i will do some more reading about the biological filter. 
For the above specification how many air pumps are required.Can i go with air stones ? If i have missed out of anything, please advise so that i can take a note of it while preparing my tank


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## jpbotha (Dec 9, 2008)

Recommend you go with gravel for goldfish. Will also help your bacterial growth in the tank. 

For that size tank you only need a dual air pump with one long stone or two ball type stones. 
If you can get your hands on a airpump that has adjustable settings it would even be better as you can then regulate the airflow as required.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

good luck with the new tank ^.^


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks. I will surely shared the pictures of my new tank.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

maybe we should swap im setting up a new tank too


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

what specification are you setting it up


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

mines a 120 gallon just found out i got the calculations wrong when i started my 104 gallon post. it's a planted tank (my fisrt time) no filtration as it's also an experimental tank ( i have a uv filter on stand by in case) 
stock list includes :-

25 kgs of shiny black gravel and 10 kgs JBL aqua

Bamboo shrimp
corydoras (several types)
albino pleco 
fancy guppies
Striped Raphael
Featherfin squeaker
Chinese hillstream loach

and plants mostly cabomba and guppy grass if i can find them.

the tank will mostly be vegetation during the whole cycling as i want the roots to take whole an thrive before i add any fish into it.


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

after that im upgrading my predator tank .


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## mfskarphedin (May 19, 2010)

Have you kept Hillstream Loaches before? They need cooler water, high flow rates, tons of hiding spaces for multiple fish, and HIGH oxygen. All it takes is one blackout in the summer, and they'll all be dead. I know this, because it's happened to me twice. One was in an extremely lightly-stocked 55 gallon with an Eheim 2217 on it. It was just a faulty house thermostat, not even a power outage.

Now I don't keep them anymore, even though I love them. Because I love them. :/

http://www.loaches.com/

The shrimp will probably stress the crap out of them, too.

Sorry if I'm peeing on your parade. I was one of the first to start researching them when they started coming into the pet trade on the west coast of the US, and it took a lot of people a lot of research and experimentation to find all the info there is on Loaches Online.

Oops, I think we hijacked this guy's goldfish thread. Sorry!


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

no worries the tank im working on is a 4x2x2 feet densely vegetated tank. there's no need for filtering or air pumps so i don't have to worry about power outage plus my condo has a backup generator large enough to even keep my aircon working when there's a power outage.since it's going to be a planted aquarium the hilstream loaches will be fine as there are ample hidding places and as for the baboo shirmp they just look mean.i've kept them with ribbon guppies before.they are harmless just like great danes.( their looks can be deceiving) no need to worry the bamboo shrimps as they are filter feeders. yes i have kept the hillstream loaches before in my dicus tank. here a bamboo shrimp feeding.as you can see nothing to worry.


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

One of my Gold fish Tail and Fins have started turning black. Any idea what needs to be done to cure


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## mfskarphedin (May 19, 2010)

How big/old is the fish? Which one is it? Goldfish can change color as they grow, and black fins is common on young fish.

This can also happen with ammonia burns. Test your water.

Oh, yeah, post a picture if you can.


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

please advise as i have attached the picture of the fish.


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## mfskarphedin (May 19, 2010)

It looks like a natural change of color to me. If he isn't acting sick, I'm sure it's nothing to worry about. If if was red instead of black, it would be something to worry about.

BTW, your water looks cloudy in this photo, like there's a bacteria bloom. Are your ammonia and nitrite at zero? If not, you should look at how your filter is set up, how you're cleaning it, and if that's ok, then you might need more filtration. Plus, this fish looks quite fat (for a single-tail.) You could probably cut down the feeding to help with waste build-up.

Hope that helps!


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

You judged it right. Since couple of months now the water has been cloudy and i am not able to figure out what to do. I have consulted many fish aquarium shops and they are clueless about the cause. 
My tank size is 3ft * 1ft * 2ft. Am using 2 Boyu filters. Have also changed the gravel but the problem still exists . I am not able to figure out what to do. 
Food i am giving is "Ruby Red"


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

Have uploaded couple of more picture which might help you guide me better on the cloudy water problem which i am facing since 1 month now.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

How often are you doing water changes, and how much are you changing? That's an awful lot of goldfish for a tank that size, so that cloudiness could simply be dirty water from the large amount of waste those goldfish are putting out.


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

i am changing 50% water every week


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Kakkarg, your tank is way overstocked, that is probably the issue as iamntbatman mentioned. I believe it is commonly held that each goldfish should have 10g of water, so you are way above that guide. One of the goldfish experts here can correct me or confirm. But my advice is to get a much bigger tank, or cull the fish.


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## mfskarphedin (May 19, 2010)

Crap, I just lost my entire huge post! grrrrrrrr

Anyway, I'll type it all again:

Wow, like the posters above said, that's a HUGE amount of fish for such a small tank! When you said you had 17 fish, I thought you meant they were babies. I had 12 large goldfish once, and they were in a 125 gallon tank! 72" x 18" x 23" (473L = 184cm x 47cm x 59cm)

Since the cloudiness isn't green, it's not "green water" algae. Since it's white, it's free floating bacteria that are feeding on excess wastes not being processed by your filtration. I'll bet anything that you have lots of ammonia in your water, if not nitrite, too.

First, if you don't already have a testing kit, get one as soon as possible. You need a liquid kit that tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, minimum. Once you know the results, post them here. Here's one kit that I recommend: API Freshwater Master Test Kit

Second, your fish are quite fat, so you are probably overfeeding them. You should cut down feeding to reduce wastes. A goldfish only needs a pellet the size of their eyeball once or twice a day. It'll slow down their growth, too, until you get that bigger tank you said you're going to set up.

Feeding pellets will help you keep track of how much you're feeding. Here's an example: Hikari Goldfish Diets. They should probably be eating something the size of the "Hikari Staple Mini Pellet." If you have 17 fish, I'd feed 20 pellets once a day.

Third, it won't hurt to change 50% of your water twice a week, at least until we figure out what's _exactly_ wrong. If we can't fix some of the problems, you may have to continually change much more water than you are now, until the large tank is set up. Clean water = healthy fish!

Fourth, you said you changed out the gravel. The bacteria live not just in the gravel but on all surfaces in the tank, so you lost some of your bacteria. Oh, well, what's done is done. Now to care for your gravel: if you don't already have one, you should get a gravel vacuum. It's a siphon with one large end that you plunge into the gravel all over the tank. As it sucks out water, it sucks the waste out of the gravel. That will greatly decrease the waste load on your filtration. Here are some examples: 



















Python is the best brand! The second is the best kind, since it attaches to your sink faucet and requires no buckets. You'll also need it for the big tank, anyway.

Fifth, you said that you're using two filters. What _exact model(s)_ of "Boyu" filters are you using? Knowing this will help us determine if you have enough filtration for your waste load.

What kind of media is inside the filter? The way the instructions say to set it up is not always the way to get the most biological filtration out of it. Most of the new Asian export filters now coming to American and European markets like these are well-known to have horrible instructions. :/

What filter maintenance schedule are you keeping? You shouldn't need to clean each filter more than once every two months, ideally, and you should only do one filter per month, so you don't lose too many bacteria all at once. But if the filters get clogged very easily, that may not be possible. We have lots and lots of ways to solve these problems.

The manufacturer's web site is here, but it should say what model on the filter itself: Boyu USA

That's all I can think of for now. If I have any more questions, I'll add them later. It's important to have honest and thorough answers to _all _the questions I asked! Cloudy water may be just the first symptom of a big problem starting in the tank, often called a "crash." :shock:


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## kakkarg (Jun 20, 2010)

Finally i have prepared a new aquarium tank with specifications of 48 * 18 * 22 inches. Are there any prerequisites i should be taking care of before filling the tank with water and transferring the fish. Does any has any idea of Glass Chamber Filteration ? I that recommendable. 

Also, any suggestions on decoration would be of great help.


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