# Hard Water and Tropical Fish



## snecay (Apr 21, 2015)

Hi folks!

I'm currently in the midst of setting up my first ever tropical fish tank. However, I just have a few questions regarding water hardness and tropical fish compatibility.

I recently discovered that the water supplied where I live is considered "very hard" - it's something like 24 grains per gallon! I don't know _a lot _about water hardness, except that it's to do with the amount of minerals (magnesium, calcium, etc) present in the water. However, my question is, what would be the impact of the water hardness on the fish? Is there any way I can "treat" the water to make it less hard and more suitable for the fish?

As for the fish themselves, I was planning on keeping about 20 neon tetras, 10 glowlight tetras, 6 guppies and 9 swordtails, plus one bristlenose pleco. I've also got about 5 assassin snails. The tank is about 160 litres, and I don't think I will be overstocking it. Nevertheless, I don't plan on introducing _all _of the fish at the same time - just small amounts slowly - so I might not have that many fish! 

I think that these fish are compatible. However, I was wondering if there were any other fish that I could add? The thing is, all of these fish are tiny and they all love to swim in groups. So I was wondering if there were any bigger fish that would be able to live peacefully with these small fish. I love clown loaches, but my tank is too small - and they would eat my snails! Discus' are beautiful, but if I'm not mistaken, they're not very hardy, and since I am new to this, I would prefer a fish that is tougher and won't die due to the mistakes I am bound to make.

I know it's a bit of a tall order, but are there any larger, hardy peaceful fish that will do well in a tank full of smaller fish?

Thank you!


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## ThaMilkshakeMAN (Jan 5, 2015)

Not sure how to answer all of these questions as I am very new to fishkeeping myself, but from experience, Neon Tetras are very very picky when it comes to water parameters. May have just been my experience though! Good luck!


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## corina savin (Jul 11, 2012)

24 grains per gallon is about 350-400 ppm GH (depending if your gallon is UK or US). And that is hard water! Not ideal for tetras or discus but ok for guppies and swordtails.
You can soften it by mixing it with distilled water (grocery stores) or RO water (fish stores, specialized water stores or buy your own RO unit).
Another way is by using lots of driftwood as decoration in your tank or add peat granules (SeaChem and Fluval make some brands) in your filter.

I am sure Beaslbob will soon post his method using peat moss in the substrate


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## snecay (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks for your responses!

So I'm assuming neon and glowlight tetras are a no-go then :-( It's a real shame because I do love them! Are there any other fish I can use to substitute the tetras? 

Also, regarding the larger fish, I read that some loaches might be suitable (zebra, yoyo and dwarf) for my tank, since it is fairly small (about 160 litres). Would I be able to keep about 4 or 5 of these in a tank with that level of hardness? I've been reading stories about what a laugh they are, and I think I love them already :lol:

So at the moment, my list of fish includes:
10 x cherry barbs
6 x Endler's guppies
9 x swordtails
1 x bristlenose
_and maybe: 4-5 loaches
_I'll give the assassin snails to my LFS in exchange for the loaches (don't want them to get eaten)!
I'm about 90% sure all the fish (except for the loaches) will be able to manage the hard water. The only other thing missing now is a lovely, colourful schooling fish like the tetras.

It's difficult because there's so much conflicting information out there, which leads me to think that unless I actually buy the fish and put them in my tank, I won't know for sure if they'll be able to manage. But I simply can't bring myself to do that to some poor fish and end up killing them just to experiment! 

As for water, I did have a look at RO units, but they're fairly expensive (and way beyond my means as a student). I originally thought of buying bottled water from Tesco (17p per 2 litre bottle), but that would be unfeasible in the long term, and I don't want the fish to suffer if my finances do. So at the moment, I'm just thinking along the lines of fish that'll be able to manage with the hard water!

I honestly never expected it to be _that _hard - imagine my shock when the testing kit came today and I thought I'd test my tap water just for the heck of it! :shock:


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## corina savin (Jul 11, 2012)

There is a good chance that the fish you buy at your LFS are locally bred and adjusted to the area's hard water. You can ask and hope for an honest answer, however, keep in mind that at the end of the day, staff is there to push sell.
Imported fish or wild caught- is another story.
I was surprised myself when a fish store staff told me that all their tanks (from neons to African cichlids) share the same filtration, same water, same temperature.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

I am a student with hard water also (although mine isn't as hard as yours!). I keep a few betta tanks and bought this little RO unit: Amazon.com : Aquatic Life RO Buddie Three Stage Reverse Osmosis, 50-Gallon : Aquarium Filters : Pet Supplies

Since I wanted to keep soft water species and knew from past experience that my success would be limited if I used my tap water, I felt the purchase was justified in my situation. I've been quite happy with the results thus far. The unit is small and doesn't produce water very quickly, but I just plan ahead for my water change days to make sure I have enough water. I keep a 10 gallon potable water container with a spigot full of remineralized RO water so that I always have some on hand. I also have a heater in there, so that when I change the water in my tanks, I can easily drain some water from the holding container into a gallon jug and then put it directly into the tank because it has already been heated to tank temperature. It's a bit more work than just using my tap, but the fish seem happier for it. Now, I wouldn't recommend this system to a person with a large number of tanks (a larger unit and better water treatment/holding system would be needed), but for the casual hobbyist with a few small to medium sized tanks, it works pretty well.

Anyway, just thought I would share my experiences in case it helps. Have fun with your new tank!


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## ThaMilkshakeMAN (Jan 5, 2015)

Cherry Barbs are definitely hardy! They are great, I loved them when I had some!


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## corina savin (Jul 11, 2012)

I use RO water to replace the evaporated portion (quite significant in winter months) or else, the water in the tank will become very hard over time.


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## snecay (Apr 21, 2015)

Well, I talked to the LFS and they said they used tap water and the tetras were doing fine.

My plan was to start off with the other fish first - sword tails, guppies, barbs, etc (introducing them slowly) - then once the tank is more established, bring in a handful of tetras from the LFS and see how they get along. If they're not doing too well, then the LFS said they'll have them back.

Also, I saw some black neon tetras and they were *gorgeous*. Now I'm even_ more_ torn! LFS said the black neons were hardier than the "regular" neons, but I'd still love to get a mix of both because they look lovely together.

So now my updated list includes:
8 x neon tetras
8 x black tetras
5 x cherry barbs
6 x endler guppies
9 x sword tails
3 x yoyo loaches
1 x bristlenose

Off the top of my head, this would be roughly 60 inches of fish - and based on the 1 inch/0.5 UK gallon rule, I don't think I'm overstocking!


In other news, my new tank came today! Cleaned it and partially filled it with water (doing a leak test for about 24 hours). Tomorrow (provided it passes the leak test) I'll set up the tank with the substrate, sand, filter, plants, ornaments, etc and cycle it for about 3-4 weeks.

*SO EXCITED!* :grin:


Edit: would it be better if I go for quantity of fish over quantity of species? Say, if I forgo the cherry barbs and endler guppies, and get more tetras instead?


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