# 65 gallon planted tank - setup journal



## magpie

Hi there,

I'm going to show the progress of my tank setup, and would LOVE any feedback from anyone. It's a 65 gallon, 3-ft long by 24 high. Substrate is Flourite mixed with what my LFS calls "mesh" which is a slightly larger grain sand as far as I can tell. I have an Eheim 2217 external canister filter.

I set up some rocks and a couple pieces of small wood yesterday, and here's what I started with. 


















































Sorry - phone photos. The SLR will make an appearance later on.  The water's a bit cloudy as I was stirring things up, and there's obviously some aeration going on with the spraybar. The water level is low because I am scheduled to get 20 plants delivered today and it's easier in a tall tank to plan in lower water. 

I think I might need to move or remove a few rocks as I'm not sure how the plants will all work out. I may need to do a major redesign. I'm not sure where to put the planted driftwood yet, right now it's just there because I'm not sure where it needs to go to help balance after I get more things in the tank.

I have a larger branchy piece of driftwood coming via mail also, which I plan on having spread lengthwise but also reach up into the higher levels of the tank - we'll see how it works out when it's here. 

The one lighter speckled round rock in the right pile is temporary and is just holding down the small forked piece of driftwood until it wants to hang out there on it's own, probably tipped upwards a bit more.

PLEASE throw your suggestions at me - it's been a long time and I very open! Where future plants should go, if I should move things around, etc. etc. 

I'm very excited!


----------



## Calmwaters

So far I like it, I really like the substrate and I may have more suggestions once you get the plants in. ; )


----------



## magpie

My LFS says that their "plant guy" loves this substrate and that my bottom-dwellers will like it, too. I've had gravel in the past, so I like it as well. Looks more natural.

Also, I want some floating plants, as some of the fish on my wishlist really like them. What are your favorites?


----------



## Calmwaters

I love brazilian pennywort, duckweed, and wisteria. Some people don't like duckweed but I like duckweed because well it grows like a weed, lol and I like the way the little roots that grow from them look.


----------



## magpie

For fish, my list keeps evolving... still not solid at all. 

4 Bolivian Rams
6 Forktail rainbows
12 Cardinal Tetras
8 Clown killies? Or maybe instead do Marbled hatchetfish? I looove killies but I'm not sure.
5-6 Kuhli loaches
2 Stiphodon elegans (algae-eating gobies)

I also am not sure about other critters for a planted tank - have heard that Amano Shrimp are helpful, also I hear mixed things about snails like Malaysian Trumpet Snails and Zebra Nerite Snails. 
Opinions on this?


----------



## Calmwaters

I have never had an Amano shrimp but I do have ponds snails and a mystery snail and they do a great job cleaning up.


----------



## magpie

Do the snails reproduce like mad?


----------



## Byron

That is very nice, well done. My one hardscape suggestion would be to put a chunk of wood vertical in the left rear corner. Not only to cover the filter stem, but for balance; I find that end of the tank just a tad "light" in weight and it needs something dark and vertical but not too wide. The wood you mentioned on order might do it, I don't know what it is like. A thinnish piece reaching to or close to the top would work, creating the impression of a standing tree or tree trunk.

I do like your river rock arrangement, very natural. A that is a nice substrate. For floating plants, nothing beats Water Sprite if you can get it. Brazilian Pennywort is my second choice. And definitely small snails, Malaysian Livebearing are ideal especially for the substrate which should be left alone by the aquarist.

On the fish, be careful with the Bolivians. If you can be certain of getting one male and 3 females, four will work; two males/two females might but might also be a bit "iffy." 

As for the other fish, you have conflicting water parameters. Forktail rainbows should be in basic (pH above 7), and that will finish cardinal tetra that must have acidic. In my experience cardinals should not be above pH 6.

There is also an issue with current; the goby come from fast-flowing streams, and this is certainly not desirable to cardinals or hatchets or killies. On the killies, they would be perfect with cardinals and similar, as the killies stay under floating plants and need acidic water (not above pH 7).

Byron.


----------



## Calmwaters

As long as you do not over feed your fish the snails will not over run your tank. ; )


----------



## magpie

Byron said:


> That is very nice, well done. My one hardscape suggestion would be to put a chunk of wood vertical in the left rear corner. Not only to cover the filter stem, but for balance; I find that end of the tank just a tad "light" in weight and it needs something dark and vertical but not too wide. The wood you mentioned on order might do it, I don't know what it is like. A thinnish piece reaching to or close to the top would work, creating the impression of a standing tree or tree trunk.
> 
> I do like your river rock arrangement, very natural. A that is a nice substrate. For floating plants, nothing beats Water Sprite if you can get it. Brazilian Pennywort is my second choice. And definitely small snails, Malaysian Livebearing are ideal especially for the substrate which should be left alone by the aquarist.
> 
> On the fish, be careful with the Bolivians. If you can be certain of getting one male and 3 females, four will work; two males/two females might but might also be a bit "iffy."
> 
> As for the other fish, you have conflicting water parameters. Forktail rainbows should be in basic (pH above 7), and that will finish cardinal tetra that must have acidic. In my experience cardinals should not be above pH 6.
> 
> There is also an issue with current; the goby come from fast-flowing streams, and this is certainly not desirable to cardinals or hatchets or killies. On the killies, they would be perfect with cardinals and similar, as the killies stay under floating plants and need acidic water (not above pH 7).
> 
> Byron.


I agree with the L side of the tank - I picture the driftwood coming reaching up and over to that side, but we shall see. For the driftwood, I bought #2148 on this page. It may need to be trimmed - it's long. I might cut it and use it in two pieces, or a larger piece with a smaller branch elsewhere. We shall see.
Driftwood page 4 The Driftwood Store


I was told that Bolivians liked being social, so more than one pair was good for them, that you'd see more of their personality that way, and that 4 would be good in a 3-ft long tank. I keep getting conflicting information in that regard and am not sure what to do. What would you suggest? 
I was told to get a bunch of them and see if the LFS would take back the fish that don't pair off to find two pair. 

Our water is soft and the pH generally runs right around neutral. Right now mine is 7.2 - with the driftwood added it might drop a bit, which is what happened to me previously, where it typically ran 6.8 - 7.0. 

I definitely want Rams of some sort - Bolivians are hardier and seem even more interactive which is why I have them on my list. 
I was initially considering a pair of Rams and then a pair or trio of Apistos, but then thought that one dwarf cichlid would be better than two. (?)

I love Kuhli loaches. 
I love gobies (obviously am drawn to eel-looking fish with character - I would love a rope fish but I know it's not suited for this tank with smaller fish). I am fascinated by them and think they're adorable. Plus, the fact that they eat algae - rather well, I hear - is a bonus. 
I am really drawn to the forktails as a unique schooler with some color and activity.

Cardinals are just fish that worked well for me previously (even in that same pH range) and I like how a large school of them look. I don't have my heart set on them, the killies, or the hatchets but do need some more middle-upper fish. I do really like killifish in general, though. I am wary of other species of them, though, as I had a female A. Australe eat my Cardinals (I know that's not typical, and I wouldn't have believed it myself had I not seen a tail sticking out of her mouth.)

I also like Silver tip Tetras quite a bit but read that they can be nippy.
I don't like Neons as much as Cardinals but if they're better suited I'd consider them - the blue is nice to have compared with the normal coloration of most other fish I want - which is why I like the Cardinals.
I also could go for Rummynose Tetras. 
My husband likes Zebra Danios, I would like a little more color but am open to them.
(Haven't read up on water conditions for the above)

Other suggestions for me? Again, I am very open to suggestions.


----------



## Quantum

If you really like the forktails, check out Spotted Blue Eyes (_Pseudomugil gertrudae_), they offer a similar look to the forktails, but are a better fit to your water parameters.


----------



## magpie

Thanks, Ill take a peek!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## magpie

Yes, the LFS does have those..... Hmmm...

Here's our fish selection if it helps you to help me. 
Fish

Thanks all!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calmwaters

I have ordered fish from them before and get the newsletter they send out they have lots and lots of nice fish! You guys are so lucky to live with in driving distance.


----------



## Quantum

Maybe not as cute as the gobies, but Whiptail Catfish and Twig Catfish would work in your water. The Red Lizard Whiptail is really interesting. I have a farlowella (twig catfish) and its one of my favorites. Not colorful or active, but there is something endearing about it.


----------



## magpie

Calmwaters said:


> I have ordered fish from them before and get the newsletter they send out they have lots and lots of nice fish! You guys are so lucky to live with in driving distance.


We are so fortunate. Their fish are unbelievably healthy, too. If I'm in PetSmart for some other reason, and look at their fish, it makes me a little sad for them. Some of them look like completely different species because the color is so drab. I will say though that overall the PetSmart fish look better than another pet store in the area, where there are often dead fish, and many sad and sick looking guys. 



Quantum said:


> Maybe not as cute as the gobies, but Whiptail Catfish and Twig Catfish would work in your water. The Red Lizard Whiptail is really interesting. I have a farlowella (twig catfish) and its one of my favorites. Not colorful or active, but there is something endearing about it.


I do like oddballs, too. The two you mentioned are interesting looking - I'll have to read up more on them as well. Keep the suggestions coming!


I just revisited my fish spreadsheet, and I have the forktails listed as doing well in 6.5-7.5 pH.... I got my info from various sources, but can't remember where that one came from. *sigh*
This site has an even greater range - 6-8. 
FishProfiles.com - Pseudomugil furcatus

Argh, it can get so confusing to have such different info everywhere...


----------



## magpie

I'm wondering if I should point the spraybar differently for the tank so there's less current from it. Maybe take the end cap off, or point it toward the wall that it's attached to? 

Pictures coming soon... little more rearranging to do today.


----------



## Quantum

The position of the intake and outflow in the tank is good. Directing the flow of the output towards the glass does help to diffuse the current, which would be a good idea if you decide to go with the cardinals or other fish that need still water.


About the Forktail Rainbows: it seems as if the source you linked to is an exception regarding water parameters, all the sources I've looked at (print and online) corroborate what Byron said, e.g. they require hard water with pH >7.0.


----------



## magpie

Yes, I have written them off and think I'll go with the spotted ones - I prefer the look of the furcata but it just makes sense to go with the gertrudae due to water parameters. Don't want unhappy fish. 

I stirred up the tank again this morning rearranging. I'm feeling DONE with it for now... planting in a 24 tall tank is a pain and I need a break.  

I'll post photos once the water clears up a bit. 

I'm thinking this for stocking now....

2-4 Bolivian Rams (still undecided but will be a bit before I get them anyway)
5-6 Kuhli loaches
10-12? Spotted blue eye rainbows (pseudo. gertrudae)
11-13? Rummynose tetra (read they like odd numbers) 
2 stiphodon gobies (don't want to let go of them!)

- Marbled hatchets or clown killies... still up for debate and may even go with something different but need a top fish. Worried about the shy nature of the clowns.



Also, another random question - can I just use one bulb in the light fixture even if it's a dual fixture? I thought it might be better for new fish to have it slightly dimmer until I get more floating plant cover. (?)


----------



## magpie

Annnnd.... 

How often to do water changes initially?

How much should I fert the plants initially, and then long-term (general guideline)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calmwaters

Once a week with the liquid ferts and every month or two with the tabs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## magpie

Thanks! 

As for Water changes the first couple weeks- every few days? Once a week?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Byron

I'll try to comment on the several questions/issues raised since my last post, at least those that stand out to me.

The spraybar directed into the end glass does work well at lessening the current. I will just mention a personal experience on this. In my 5-foot 115g I have a few fish that need some current, namely the trio of Spotted Woodcats. So I have the filter outflow about 15 inches from the end wall (left side if you look at the photo of this tank) with the spigot (not a spray bar) aimed at the end wall. The standing wood at the far left has tunnels, and the 3 woodcat took up residence in these due to the current which is relatively brisk as it hits the wood. That plus the end wall weaken it as it is deflected back into the tank. But the area that the other fish stay in is indicative of what I frequently write about water movement and fish. The cardinals always stay at the far right side; very rarely do I see them left of centre. The Roberti Tetra similarly remain in the right half, and back under the large swords, even more than the cardinals (who also like shade). The corys are all in the right half at the back, out of the light and current--by which I mean they "rest" in this area; during the day they are out and about searching for food.

To the rams. If this is a 4-foot tank, 4 may work. If there is male/female, they will perhaps pair up and bond. If the male doesn't like the female, he may spawn a few times, then kill her. Mine did. I recommend this species be kept singly (a sole male), a harem (one male, 3+ females in 4+ feet) or a large group (7-8) if sufficient space. The issue arises when they pair up; the bonded pair will not appreciate other rams anywhere in the tank. They will spawn regularly until they die (4 years lifespan) so this is a continual issue. The extent of the stress and damage varys with the individual fish.

A comment on differing information on various sites. I always consider reliability based upon the author of the information. When I write our profiles, I research several sources, sometimes varying depending upon the species. Those that have knowledgeable biologists, ichthyologists or aquarists writing them, almost always agree on data. If one of these "reliable" differs, I mention that as "some sources say..." or whatever. 

There are some who put considerable trust in a fish's ability to adapt to differing water parameters; I am not in this group. It is true that some species do have a remarkable tolerance, but many do not. And in most it is much easier to have flexibility within the acidic or basic range, but not between the two.

On the light fixture, some will operate with one bulb removed, some will not; depends how it is constructed.

Water changes should be weekly from the start--assuming a planted tank with no cycling issues. More frequent changes are needed if ammonia or nitrite appear. Otherwise, no. A new tank will often develop a cloudiness due to a bacterial bloom and water changes will worsen this and extend it. The tank needs time to establish itself biologically. Provided there are no issues, obviously.

Byron.


----------



## magpie

THANK you! 

Are you sick of my questions yet? If so, you may want to stop reading. :roll:

I bought brazilian pennywort today... should I leave the full stems or cut them into smaller bits? I see roots at each junction... so I assume I can cut them but then wonder if they're happier attached. 


Fish... I went to the wet spot today and they only had one solitary female pseudom. gertrudae. She was with some buddies, but none of her species. Plan ruined! They have some small ones that they're raising to be larger but are not ready yet (in their offsite holding area somewhere). So.... I am stumped. I can't do pretty much any other fish on my list as they are all somewhat sensitive. Kuhlis, rummynose, rams, killies, etc. We discuss maybe the goby, however it is more expensive. I see some beautiful purple pencilfish... I ogle them, but they are too expensive. (And no research done.) Silver tipped tetras are thrown out, and I like them, but I have read too many stories of them being nippy. I pass. 

I see these Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) which I had seen before and researched a bit as an interest. 74-80 degrees, 6.0-7.0 pH (or 7.5 depending on what you read). 
Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) - Seriously Fish 
I was told they are relatively adaptable, love live foods but are not fussy, are now tank-bred, and so... I get them. They are now acclimating as I type. We'll see how they do. Pretty little fish. I have 6, not yet sure if I will get more at this point. 

Photos will come later maybe, if I think turning the light on won't freak them out on their first day.


----------



## Byron

> Are you sick of my questions yet? If so, you may want to stop reading.


If I didn't want to try to help answer questions, I wouldn't be here.:lol: So never fear of asking. When I started into fish, forums like this one didn't exsist--neither did computers for that matter.:dunno:



> I bought Brazilian Pennywort today... should I leave the full stems or cut them into smaller bits? I see roots at each junction... so I assume I can cut them but then wonder if they're happier attached.


This is a stem plant, so it grows by continually lengthening the stem. Roots and leaves grow from every node (your "junction") along the stem; many stem plants do the same, some less so, some only develop roots in the substrate. But you want to keep it in lengths of several nodes. The length is up to you and what effect you want. Planted in the substrate (the cut end), you can let it grow to the surface, or allow it to continue growing over the surface. To keep it shorter, when it reaches the surface or the height you want, pull it up and cut off some of the lower portion and replant the cut end of the top portion. If you cut the stem and leave the lower portion planted, it will usually sprout two new stems from the node where it was cut. I have some floating that have three stems. You can also grow it completely floating, just lay it on the water; here again you can periodically cut it to keep it shorter. If left alone, this plant will easily cover the surface and then begin to grow up through the cover and outside if it can find an opening. This is a very lovely and useful plant.



> Fish... I went to the wet spot today and they only had one solitary female pseudom. gertrudae. She was with some buddies, but none of her species. Plan ruined! They have some small ones that they're raising to be larger but are not ready yet (in their offsite holding area somewhere). So.... I am stumped. I can't do pretty much any other fish on my list as they are all somewhat sensitive. Kuhlis, rummynose, rams, killies, etc. We discuss maybe the goby, however it is more expensive. I see some beautiful purple pencilfish... I ogle them, but they are too expensive. (And no research done.) Silver tipped tetras are thrown out, and I like them, but I have read too many stories of them being nippy. I pass.


I agree on the Silvertip, that is a risk. A few other tetra are the same, so check before you buy.;-)
The pencilfish are either the Coral Red or the Purple which is also often called Coral Red 2 or Double Red. Both are in our profiles: click shaded names, Nannostomus mortenthaleri and Nannostomus rubrocaudatus. I have groups of both presently; they need very soft and acidic water as they are wild caught from streams in Peru. But you have that our of your tap as I do. A group of 6 minimum of either. Lovely fish, but yes, they are expensive; I paid $12 each for my six N. rubrocaudatus a couple months ago. I wouldn't put these in a new tank, wait for it to establish (a couple months) if you do decide on them--and perhaps the WS will hold them? Some stores will when they know you are asking because of your new tank and want to do things right.



> I see these Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) which I had seen before and researched a bit as an interest. 74-80 degrees, 6.0-7.0 pH (or 7.5 depending on what you read).
> Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) - Seriously Fish
> I was told they are relatively adaptable, love live foods but are not fussy, are now tank-bred, and so... I get them. They are now acclimating as I type. We'll see how they do. Pretty little fish. I have 6, not yet sure if I will get more at this point.


I don't know this fish personally. I do know SF though, it is owned and run by my friend Matt Ford, a British biologist now living in Spain. Very knowledgeable individual.

Byron.


----------



## magpie

I plan on keeping the pennywort floating. I might snip it up a bit, or maybe not. I also have some wisteria up there too (extra from the shipment) but I prefer the pennywort. 

The pencilfish were the purple - Nannostomus rubrocaudatus. So pretty. I'm sure they'd hold them for me. Hmmm... not a bad idea. They are selling them for I believe it was $60 for 6, and they only had 6 left. Hence, not wanting to put them in a newer tank. 

Here we go!


----------



## magpie

These little guys are so cool! They've only been here a few hours but are swimming in all areas of the tank - left, right, front, back, bottom and top. They will hang out all together, but occasionally go out and explore on their own. They ate food readily. So crossing my fingers that they'll be OK - all initial signs are good. I may just have to get 5-6 more of them. ;-) Maybe next week. 

I think I should spread out the fish addition a week at a time - I think that's what I had read. I'll check levels daily. 

Here are a bunch of crappy iphone photos just to get the gist of the plant setup right now. It's not as insanely bright as it looks (phone just doesn't know what to do with the light), and still slightly cloudy from all of the stirring up I've done over the past 2 days. I know it's a jumble of a whole mess of plants, but I think it's looking pretty good considering. Still needs work but I'm content for now... like I said, it's a bit of a pain to move plants around in the 24" tall tank. So I'm ready to enjoy it some. (Still open for input though - please and thank you!) Does it need some more small plants in the front area? Maybe some of those thin grasses that I see sometimes...? Feel free to suggest away. 
The Pennywort up top has not yet been attended to - just dropped in. The java moss stuffed behind the intake of the filter is there for safe keeping until the driftwood comes sometime this week - then will probably tie it to bits of the wood, depending on how it looks. 






























From this angle the front and middle of the tank looks empty. I know a lot of it has to grow in, and that I'll probably end up removing some plants and changing the aquascaping once things are established, but still... 










Hi little guys! Welcome....











Wow, taking shots of fish is tough - not great light and lots of movement and shifting focal ranges. Got out the SLR for these two, but need to play with settings quite a bit more in the future. 










Whatcha doin'? Feeding me by chance?


----------



## Calmwaters

Very, very nice! you have done a really nice job in my opinion. What kind of fish are those? They are cute.


----------



## magpie

Thanks so much!

They are Ricefish- most sources I've read call them Daisy's Ricefish, but there's not a lot of info out there, as they are newer to the trade I guess. Scientific name is Oryzias Woworae. 
Daisy's Ricefish (Oryzias woworae) - Seriously Fish

They were definitely more intensely colored in the LFS - pretty little things with blue, red, and yellow, and their eyes flash blue, too. So far, I really like them - very cute, curious little guys. 

The SF profile says this:


> ...adults have also been observed grazing from solid surfaces, so the natural diet may also contain an algal component.


 and I have already seen them poking around at the surface of some of the plants. They took tiny pieces of flake readily. Today I might try a bit of thawed frozen brine shrimp cubes for them. 


I have to be careful in my feeding right now, I believe? Don't want too much waste in a new tank?

Are there any good compiled resources on feeding - what to feed and how to be certain all of your fishes needs are being met?


----------



## magpie

Instead of swimming away when I walk by, (and stare at them, which I can't help but do frequently LOL) they come toward me now.  

Thanks for recommending the Brazilian Pennywort - now that I've snipped it up and set it up top nicely, it looks great. I'm sold on floating plants!

When should I start the root tabs for the plants?


----------



## Calmwaters

I would go ahead and put the root tabs. Are you asking what to feed or how much? If its what I feed a variety of Omega One Flakes, Frozen bloodworms, daphnie, brine shrimp, algea wafers and an occasional veggie like squash, lettuce, or spinach. I use to feed every other day but now I feed a smaller amount everyday except Sunday.


----------



## magpie

I guess when I have more fish I'm not sure how much to know how to feed, without overfeeding, and making sure everyone's getting some. 

It was easier in a 30 gallon to see everyone and be sure all were getting food... 

I have the Omega One flakes, and then some frozen cubes - brine shrimp, bloodworms, and two mixes of various things. I can get live blood and black worms and brine shrimp from time to time. I'm sure i can get the daphnia, have read about that but never fed it before. Algae wafers/pellets I'll wait for a bit. I also used to use shrimp pellets I think for kuhli loaches? They loved bloodworms too. I've never done the veggies but have read a lot on it.

Should I use cichlid flakes/pellets when I get the Rams or is that marketing do you think?

Do you do something different everyday, or just a smidge of a couple things? Or do the flakes as a staple and use the others a couple times a week to switch it out?


----------



## Calmwaters

I give them something different each day and I use to have rams and feed them the same way and they did fine on it. I feed them enough so that they finish it within 5 minutes when its falling to the bottom and nobodys going after it then you have fed to much.


----------



## magpie

Ok, so the same as the 30 gallon, just on a bigger scale.  

Wanna be sure I'm doing it all right... thanks for your patience!


----------



## Calmwaters

Yes just like your other tank. ; )


----------



## magpie

Ok, the tabs say to plant every 6" - is there a certain distance they should be from the plants? Any worry of burning roots?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calmwaters

I actually plant them about 3 inches from the bottom of each sword plant because they really need the root tabs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## magpie

Thank you!

Last night's water testing: 
pH 6.8 (finally got down to where I know it likes to be)
Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate 0/0/0


----------



## magpie

They are coloring up already! (I love my little guys.)


----------



## Calmwaters

Your welcome enjoy your fishies!


----------



## magpie

All tests are still 0/0/0. When would I expect any ammonia or nitrites to show? Or is it likely that it won't at all if I go slowly?

Ill put the root tabs in tonight. I'll do a partial water change when I get the driftwood. At the same time I'll clean my filter sponges of Flourite dust and replace the carbon pad with Purigen. I think the instructions said to take the carbon pad out after 2 weeks anyway. 

Makes me really happy that the fish seem happy and are coloring up so quickly. And they are definitely looking for algae on the leaves, but have also gobbled up anything I give them. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kangy

Tank looks amazing! I love the substrate. I also went with a mixed substrate. I already had sand so I did a 50/50 floramax. The floramax I have has a more reddish tint to it, I wish I would of went with the flourite, love the natural look to it. Great job!


----------



## magpie

Thanks so much!


----------



## magpie

OK, today was a partial water change, and I did a quick cleaning of the Eheim - SO happy I did - there was so much brown dust gunk from the Flourite. Put the Purigen in the Eheim in place of the carbon pad. Added more liquid Flourish to the tank, and the root tabs went in Tuesday night. 

Fish still happy and cute and come running to the front of the tank whenever I walk by. 

No driftwood yet - emailed the guy to see what was up, as the USPS tracking seems to have stalled out. 

Tests still 0/0/0. Which would show first if there was a spike? Ammonia?


----------



## Calmwaters

The ammonia would show up first. ; )


----------



## magpie

OK, then if I want to be lazy, can I just check for ammonia, or should I be testing for all three every day? Not that it's that hard or time consuming...


----------



## Calmwaters

Now that I am not sure about I have always just done it all at once, but I guess you could and then once you see the ammonia start checking the others someone else may know of a reason not to do it that way but I can't think of one.


----------



## Byron

If this is the tank shown in the photos in post #27, you will not see spikes in ammonia or nitrite, and probably won't see nitrate or if you do very low. I wouldn't waste time testing for these, I never do with new tanks that are planted. Those plants will grab any ammonia from the fish, and when the organics start building in the substrate, they will grab that ammonia too. Nitrifying bacteria don't have a chance with so many plants.:fish:


----------



## Calmwaters

Thats what I was thinking to but was afraid to say it because I was not 100% sure, I have set up tanks with lots of plants but I have also always seeded the filters so now I know.


----------



## Byron

Calmwaters said:


> Thats what I was thinking to but was afraid to say it because I was not 100% sure, I have set up tanks with lots of plants but I have also always seeded the filters so now I know.


Yes, there will be some nitrifying bacteria, I should have been careful to not imply none previously. But they are minimal because they honestly do get out-competed by the plants for the ammonia/ammonium. I usually have wood from existing tanks that goes into a new setup, and the plants are from existing tanks so some bacteria would be on their leaves. I have never deliberately seeded a new tank; the filter media will be either new or thoroughly washed under hot tap water, and same with the substrate.


----------



## Calmwaters

Thanks for clearing that up for us Byron. You amaze me with your wealth of knowledge I could never remember all the stuff you know but I do feel like I am learning alot from you. ; )


----------



## magpie

Byron said:


> If this is the tank shown in the photos in post #27, you will not see spikes in ammonia or nitrite, and probably won't see nitrate or if you do very low. I wouldn't waste time testing for these, I never do with new tanks that are planted. Those plants will grab any ammonia from the fish, and when the organics start building in the substrate, they will grab that ammonia too. Nitrifying bacteria don't have a chance with so many plants.:fish:


Yep, that's the tank. I have read that before about planted tanks, however I've also read about new tanks with spikes of things that kill fish and I'm already attached to my Ricefish. ;-) Maybe I'm too much of a worrier. But better to play it safe I guess. 

So now even though I don't have to worry about ammonia and nitrites, I still need to wait until the tank has "settled down" and stabilized more before adding fish like Bolivians, Pencilfish, or Kuhlis, yes? And if so, how long to be safe?

What a great bonus of planted tanks... I have always loved them but now I love them even more.

Thanks for the info as always!


----------



## Byron

magpie said:


> Yep, that's the tank. I have read that before about planted tanks, however I've also read about new tanks with spikes of things that kill fish and I'm already attached to my Ricefish. ;-) Maybe I'm too much of a worrier. But better to play it safe I guess.
> 
> So now even though I don't have to worry about ammonia and nitrites, I still need to wait until the tank has "settled down" and stabilized more before adding fish like Bolivians, Pencilfish, or Kuhlis, yes? And if so, how long to be safe?
> 
> What a great bonus of planted tanks... I have always loved them but now I love them even more.
> 
> Thanks for the info as always!


For sensitive fish like wild-caught pencilfish and the Bolivian Ram I would give the tank a few weeks. Don't touch the substrate, allow the waste and organics to settle into it, as this will mature the tank sooner if it is not messed with; you want to establish the biological equilibrium. Water changes as normal, 1/3 to 1/2 weekly. Less sensitive fish are OK, the sooner the better for same reason. But wild fish like pencils do not appreciate fluctuating water conditions, and neither Ram species does either.

The initial fluctuations in water conditions is why algae frequently appears during this period; it takes advantage. This is to be expected, and not a cause for alarm. Here again, no substantial changes, let things settle naturally.


----------



## magpie

Perfect, thanks. I was under the impression that you shouldn't siphon planted tanks anyway... I just did my water change from the top of the tank. 

I have my lights timed for 8 hrs / day as I read that that would help keep algae down but I do expect it some. Not sure when to go to 10 and then I think 12? I would assume that also should be gradually increased as all gets more stable. 

Thank you!

EDIT: What about Amano shrimps? Are they good to have in general? I've read a lot about them. Maybe I could add them now. I think if I get ones that aren't babies they'd be large enough to be left alone by the Bolivians (?)

Unfortunately many of the fish I'm interested in want a more established tank, and I don't want to get fish I don't want, just to have fish in there. It's an odd dilemma. I was going to get the gertrudae rainbows, but there weren't enough in the store, and they are growing babies out now that won't be quite ready for another week or two I guess. (Being patient, paaaaatient....  )


----------



## Quantum

I had rams a little while back - added some red cherry shrimp to the tank and the shrimp didn't last long. The amano shrimp, I believe are a little bigger, and maybe with their less conspicuous coloring and having more space than what was available in my setup they may stand a better chance, but I wouldn't be surprised if the rams snapped them up.


Algae shouldn't be a problem, you may have to fine tune things such as the photoperiod, but you shouldn't see a huge outbreak unless something is out of balance. I looked through the thread, but didn't see a mention or your light (maybe I missed it). I think this is the most important consideration regarding algae. High output lights will require more attention in order to maintain the balance.


----------



## magpie

I have a dual-fixture T5.

It's the 36" freshwater version of this:
http://www.aquaticlife.com/products/277#1

It has
(1) 36" 39W T5 HO 6000 K Lamp 
(1) 36" 39W T5 HO 650 nm Lamp

I don't know a ton about lighting, so am open to any advice in regards to the tubes in the fixture.


----------



## Byron

magpie said:


> I have a dual-fixture T5.
> 
> It's the 36" freshwater version of this:
> Aquatic Life
> 
> It has
> (1) 36" 39W T5 HO 6000 K Lamp
> (1) 36" 39W T5 HO 650 nm Lamp
> 
> I don't know a ton about lighting, so am open to any advice in regards to the tubes in the fixture.


That is bright light. T5 HO is more intense than the regular T8 light, when comparing the same type and size tube. Roughly speaking, a T5 HO is 1.5 times more intense (bright) light than the same in T8.

I think you will not manage with longer duration than 8 hours, and you may have to reduce that. It all depends upon balance between nutrients and light. And carbon (CO2) is generally the nutrient in least supply, and the one we do not add via fertilizer, so the light has to be brought into balance with the CO2. There is no formula, each tank is different due to the differing biology. If this were me, I would start with 8 hours but be prepared to cut back.

And definitely have lots of floating plants. The fish mentioned do not appreciate overhead light at all, and the brighter it is, the more it will stress them. Water Sprite works great here, it can get so thick the tank will almost dim to darkness, so it is controllable.


----------



## Quantum

That 650 nm lamp is interesting, never seen that before. Does it emit red light? I would think that if it is solely 650 nm it would be very noticably red - to the degree that Actinic lamps (420 or 460 nm, I believe) are blue.


----------



## magpie

You can tell it's red if you look underneath, but not from the front of the tank. 

I might take it apart tonight and see if it will operate with the one bulb. I don't want to mess with CO2. Or do you think I should just go nuts with the floating plants? I do like the brazilian pennywort I have and could add water sprite, too. 

Does the type of T5 matter, or are 2 T5s going to be too bright for a low-tech tank no matter what?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Byron

magpie said:


> You can tell it's red if you look underneath, but not from the front of the tank.
> 
> I might take it apart tonight and see if it will operate with the one bulb. I don't want to mess with CO2. Or do you think I should just go nuts with the floating plants? I do like the brazilian pennywort I have and could add water sprite, too.
> 
> Does the type of T5 matter, or are 2 T5s going to be too bright for a low-tech tank no matter what?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Plants (aquatic) need red and blue light, and some need more red (the red-leaf forms of course). That's why the so-called aquarium or plant tubes emit a purplish light, it is primarily red and blue mixed. But they are very weak. You have T5 HO which is intense light, and the mix noted is ideal for plants. So it comes down to your viewing: if the colour appearance of the tank doesn't concern you, not an issue. The spectrum from what you've indicated should be OK from a plant perspective.

If you can remove a tube (the "red" in this case) and the other will still light, it might help long-term. Let's reconsider the light after you've tried this.;-)

Byron.


----------



## Quantum

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that the red was bad if that is how it came across. It was just something I hadn't seen before and was curious.

As Byron has mentioned, plants utilize both red and blue light (and reflect greens and yellows, which is why most plants appear green to us) and 650 nm is the red wavelength absorbed by chlorophyll(a) for photosynthesis. 

I noticed a customer service email address at the link, maybe send them an email asking if your fixture can operate with only one bulb.


----------



## magpie

OK, it does not operate with just one tube in, I tried it out. 

So, now what? I don't want to deal with CO2 unless I absolutely have to. And I'd like to have the lights on more than 8 hours, but I guess it's not a huge deal if I can't. 

The cabomba needs pruning already, though. :roll: 

I could still contact the company to see what they say. I need a dummy tube. ;-)


----------



## Quantum

You could replace the 650 nm bulb with another 6000K bulb, or similar. This would reduce the amount of red and blue light available (the Aquatic Life website shows spectral graphs for the bulbs), thereby reducing the potential rate of photosynthesis (plant/algae growth). This would also remove the pink hue (technically magenta) imparted by plant grow bulbs, which is unnatural and found by some to be unpleasant aesthetically.


----------



## magpie

Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Byron

magpie said:


> OK, it does not operate with just one tube in, I tried it out.
> 
> So, now what? I don't want to deal with CO2 unless I absolutely have to. And I'd like to have the lights on more than 8 hours, but I guess it's not a huge deal if I can't.
> 
> The cabomba needs pruning already, though. :roll:
> 
> I could still contact the company to see what they say. I need a dummy tube. ;-)


The last point is worth considering. I have often wondered if these fixtures will still work if one of the tubes is burnt out. Probably like the old fashioned Christmas tree lights--one bulb burns out, the entire string went out and you searched for hours trying to find the burnt out bulb.:lol: [This has probably really dated me...]

As I mentioned previously, the balance in the tank will determine light duration. This is a lot of bright light; my concern would be not only algae, but more the fish. Forest fish do not like ovehead light. Thick floating plants will help, both the fish and the algae. And you may find a duration of no more than 6 hours to control algae is needed. It all depends upon the nutrient level.

If it were me, I would certainly consider a new light before I went with adding CO2.


----------



## magpie

I'll email the company, and get some water sprite as well. 


Thanks as always...


Edit: I got a pair of the stiphodon elegans gobies. They are adorable and I just LOVE them. They hang out on both sides of the tank so far (still new) , but I'm wondering if they'll settle on the side that has more of the current from the spray bar against that glass. I've set it up so that there's current on that side, but it doesn't go across the entire tank so those that don't like the current can avoid it, those that do can hang out near the spray bar wall. Similar to what you were saying in your large tank, Byron.


----------



## magpie

Maybe I should just use a bunch of floating plants and then keep both tubes so that there's always some algae for the gobies. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## magpie

I am still in love with the goby pair. They be-bop around and are active during the day. I saw them in a little cave in one of the rock piles at one point when it was dark, so I wonder if they sleep hidden. They definitely like each others' company. 

There's not a ton of info out there about them specifically, but I did read in a couple places that they might be picky eaters. Not these two - I dropped in an Omega One veggie wafer and they ate off of it. Probably didn't need to put a whole one in there (oops) but they snack on it, go back and hang out on plants/rocks/glass for awhile and then back to the wafer. Of course right now they have no competition. 

They're not afraid of me at all and are not skittish. They didn't even care when a dog nose went up to the glass in front of them. Or a camera lens. ;-) So far, so good! 

Here are some photos of the new duo.

The female.
I hang on rocks









I hang on plants.









I hang on glass.









And I swim around, too.










Hey, ladies...


















His fins are gorgeous - spotted and striped.









Mmmm... algae wafer.









You can see the blue and red tips on his dorsal fin here









Excuse me, pardon me...


----------



## Calmwaters

Oh they are lovely! You have a neat collection going on there. Two fish I have never seen around here your LFS must be awesome!


----------



## Byron

Yes indeed, beautiful fish, and wonderful photos.:welldone:


----------



## magpie

Thanks! They are easier to photograph since they stop moving now and again. 

I do feel really, really lucky to have the LFS that I do. Not only for the variety, but they are healthy and already well acclimated before thy even go to the store itself (they raise babies and acclimate shipped fish in an offsite location I guess). You never see ich there, even. So when you get fish there is less of a "break in" period I think than fish from other stores.

Did I mention that I love the gobies yet? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calmwaters

LOL yes you did and I can't blame you they are adorable. ; )


----------



## kangy

Those are awesome! I really enjoyed the pictures (and the captions lol). How big will they get? I spent 3 years in Okinawa Japan while in the Corps and did a ton of diving over there. If I saw a Goby my dive buddies would get pissed cause I would hover there for 10 minutes just watching them! They are really fun to watch


----------



## magpie

They are so fun to watch! Would be wonderful to watch them in the wild... 

They'll probably get not too much longer, from what I read - they're probably a touch longer than 2 inches now.


----------



## magpie

Everyone's still doing well. I'm getting some water sprite today, hopefully, and adding the driftwood. I heard back from the light folks and it won't run without two functioning bulbs (so yeah, like the old Christmas lights.) I guess I just get lots of floating plants and see how things pan out as I slowly increase the light period.

If there is too much light, it just means algae, yes? Or do other things go haywire? If the floating plants can keep it dim enough for the fish to be happy, what else do I have to keep an eye on?

Should I replace the 650nm bulb with another 6000K?

Can I do something to the glass lids of the tank or to the fixture's plastic cover to help but yet keep good light available to the plants?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## magpie

One last question- (too late to edit)
If I have the top essentially filled with floating plants, does that mean I shouldn't have hatchetfish or clown killlies because they like to be at the surface? Or will they be ok (or maybe even prefer) hanging out underneath plants? I don't have my heart set on either one, but need to know if I need to think about another species that likes the top part of the tank, or possibly just increasing the schoolers I'm going to have. Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Quantum

Mainly the concern is algae and of course the fish. I noticed a change in the behavior of my fish when I went from T5HO to T8, they seemed more settled. Floating plants should help with this.


I think changing the bulb would help a bit, probably not make a huge difference since there is a lot of light either way and considering the cost of these bulbs, maybe just wait until it is time to replace it anyway, then go with a 6500K. 


The glass lid is something I thought about as well. Window tint would diminish the amount of light entering the tank, but would it reduce all wavelengths equally or selectively reduce some and allow others. I don't know. Another option (I believe I read on this site, but can't remeber who said it) is window screen, the aluminum or fiberglass mesh type from Home Depot or Lowe's. This might be worth a try, it is cheap and easily removed if it doesn't work.


----------



## Calmwaters

The hatchet fish will enjoy the floating plants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## magpie

Even if mostly covered? Cool!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calmwaters

Its my understanding it will make them feel safe.


----------



## Ogre44

Did you ever receive your driftwood from the Driftwood store?
If so, how did it work out for you in that gorgeous tank?


----------



## magpie

Ogre44 said:


> Did you ever receive your driftwood from the Driftwood store?
> If so, how did it work out for you in that gorgeous tank?


I did! I put it in there, but had to weight it down with a large rock, and I rubber-banded another rock to the top of it. Looks great. :roll: No, the branch looks fantastic but I'm excited for it to be waterlogged. There is another smaller piece that came with it, and I am soaking it submerged in a bucket before I put it in there. It was too hard to get it anchored in the tank with a rock so I'll add it once it is sinking on its own. 

The female goby loves to spend her time on one of the branches. 

I would definitely recommend buying from that shop. It was very reasonably priced (some driftwood is crazy expensive out there), great quality, and he has good customer service. The USPS had issues with their tracking system, so it looked like it hadn't moved out of the original location about 3-4 days later when I typed in the tracking number. I emailed him and he got back to me right away, and looked into it for me. Communication was great. In the middle of that process it just showed up on my door. So all was well but for the online tracking system.

I'll have to take a couple of photos today. Once it sinks more readily and I get the other piece in there, I may need to shuffle around some plants as well. The plants are growing wonderfully. I've had to prune back a few things already. 

Yesterday I also increased my lighting to 9 hrs/day, and I got some screen from home depot to put over the light to dim it down a bit. Will let you know how that works - I'm doing that today.

Does anyone here anchor their floating plants somehow? Maybe tie to the intake tube? My floating plants cluster near the spray bar. They would provide better surface coverage if they didn't get so clumped up over there... Ideas? Or do I just need to wait for it to grow out more?


----------



## kangy

magpie said:


> Does anyone here anchor their floating plants somehow? Maybe tie to the intake tube? My floating plants cluster near the spray bar. They would provide better surface coverage if they didn't get so clumped up over there... Ideas? Or do I just need to wait for it to grow out more?


Depending on the size of the plants get a couple of suction cup heater or airline tubing holders . I had to anchor my anacharis due to the outflow from my old HOB (not an issue since going sponge). I got two heater suction cups for a couple bucks from Petco, they have a gap on the front for you to pop in the heater but 2/3 of the circle is complete so it was enough to hold them still. You can see it in the below photo upper left wall and upper right of rear wall


----------



## magpie

Not a bad idea, thank you! I have pennywort and some chopped up wisteria - they are thinner stemmed but I wonder if I could work something out...


----------



## kangy

The airline suction rings would work great with thin stem plants . The extra ones I have are a fully closed circle but a quick cut with some scissors would allow you to pop the atems in and would hold them secure. Only downside is they are confined to the wall


----------



## magpie

That's OK - at this point I have so many that they'd still spread out if I could just attach them maybe to the wall near the intake (vs. the output where they hang out now). 

Thanks!


----------



## magpie

OK, an update - I was out of town for a bit, and then sick so there have been some changes. 

- The airline suction rings worked perfectly - I snipped a small slit in the ring and threaded some stems through them, then had other plants draped over to make the floating 'mat.' So now there are floating plants on both ends of the tank, with some open area in the middle. (THANK YOU KANGY!)
- I put the mesh screen on the underside of the light and it worked great! Now that he floating plants are more settled in I might clip a bit of the screen back in areas, but it worked well to take the bright edge off and I think my male goby is less ornery with the female because of it. 

I have new inhabitants:
- *10 marbled hatchetfish*. I've never had them before and I love them! They seem very happy - they of course hang out at the top of the tank, but also at the mid-level. They tend to face in the same direction, which is interesting (east-west) and I'm wondering if they prefer facing downstream as my current goes in that direction. They are pigs and gobble down food like nobody's business. They eat anything I put in the tank but seem to especially love the micro pellets. Funny enough, there is one lone wolf hatchet who likes to show his independent side sometimes... we frequently count them and get to 9 and then there's the rebel off swimming around in the plants. 
- *8 Kuhli loaches*. Have always loved them and this time's no different. They are just adorable. They of course hang out under rocks, in caves, and under wood some, but like my prior loaches are definitely out and about even in the daytime. I have read about them sometimes never being seen but I just have not had that experience with these guys. They are also very good eaters. They LOVE live brine shrimp. I was initially worried that the male goby would chase them, but he doesn't seem to care about them at all. Yesterday there was one pretty much spooning with him and he didn't bat an eye. His territorialism/chasing only seems to be conspecific but he and the lady goby are doing great overall. 
- *5 Purple pencilfish *(Nannostomus rubrocaudatus). They are gorgeous and I love them! (I just realized that I've said that I love all my fish, but I truly do...) It's wonderful to have a splash of red in the tank. I'd like at least 5 more, but the store only had 5 to begin with so this is what I got. They were shy the first day or two, then they've been out and about, particularly 3 of them, who seem the boldest. They have been the shyest of my fish, but they don't hide, and they do come to the side of the tank when they see me coming and staring at them, wondering if they'll be fed soon. They loosely hang out together most of the time but are definitely not schoolers. They surprised me as they are also good eaters - eat anything I put in there - micro pellets, flakes, frozen, live. They even go to the bottom to nibble on the veggie wafers, which surprised me! They really love the floating plant cover and spending time amongst the roots. They sleep there, too. But for the most part they are mid-to-upper level swimmers. They do spend some time with the rice fish on occasion. I think they'll like a bigger grouping when I can make it happen. 

Tonight I'll get *12 Gertrudae Rainbowfish* - they're on hold for me. They don't come through as often as the forktail blue-eyed rainbows so I had to grab them when I saw them. Right now they are tiny! If you didn't know what they looked like at maturity it would be really easy to pass them by in the store as they're not much to look at.

Next to add are the dwarves. I'm still interested in Bolivian Rams, but have also been entertaining the thought of Laetacara dorsigera (red-breasted acara) as the smiling acaras are adorable and also seem interactive in the LFS. They are growing on me, but I would only get one pair for my 65 gallon. Right now the store has curviceps but no dorsigera. Time to research more.

The only other fish I'd consider adding would be a farlowella (or two? not sure if they prefer pairs or are OK singly). They carry the 'regular' kind and the royals frequently. Again, time for more research on them as well. 

Photos will come later! I have to keep hacking plants back so that's a good sign. 

Overall, the tank seems really balanced and happy, and that makes me happy. :-D


----------



## magpie

A P.S. - I did my water change this past Tuesday evening, and on Thursday morning I realized that I hadn't plugged my heater back in! The tank was 67 degrees. :-( 

On Wednesday night I had thought it was a little odd that I hadn't seen all 5 of the pencilfish out going crazy at feeding time, and I'm sure it's because of the temperature. So now I know that my pencilfish will be the ones to tell me that something is off. (I also know that the rice fish won't act any differently at all if something is off.  )

I feel like such an idiot. So far everyone is OK, and I know that fish in the wild undergo temperature fluctuations, but with new-ish fish I worry. I'm sure it will all be fine. That is one mistake I won't make twice. 
*slaps forehead*


----------



## Only One Haze

Cant wait to see pics! Gertrudae Rainbows are awesome!


----------



## angella

Your tank sounds cool =) I want some pics!! Lots of cool fish I've seen mentioned, can you list all of them?


----------



## Byron

On the Farlowella; make sure it is the true Farlowella, not the "Royal" which are most likely Sturisoma. They would cause some issues in a tank of small fish. Farlowella vittata is in our profiles, it is the most commonly seen true Farlowella but you may encounter one or two other species, the profile gives data on telling them apart and has a diagram too. This species is fine solo, or a group of 3 or more. A pair would work if you could be sure of a pair. I bought three back in 2008 and it turns out I have one male and two females. They have spawned several times, always in late August through October, and I have 3 fry now almost full size that I managed to raise. A male with spawn with several females if they are ready, and he guards the eggs of all together.

On the hatchetfish; as with most fish they will face upstream if there is a current. It is often written that this fish likes a current, but in my experience over many years with this species this is inaccurate. My group of around 20 are now in the 115g 5-foot tank, and they remain at the right-hand end where there is no surface movement at all. Down at the left end there is some, and they very rarely venture down there. I have other characins lower down that behave the same. In their habitat they prefer quiet waters such as lagoons in the stream, or flooded forest. Make sure they have minimal surface water movement and they will be less stressed.

Byron.


----------



## magpie

angella said:


> Your tank sounds cool =) I want some pics!! Lots of cool fish I've seen mentioned, can you list all of them?


I'll post some photos later on tonight but not yet of the gertrudae because they will be settling in.

Current stock is not much more than I already listed:

- 6 Daisy's rice fish (Oryzias Woworae) - the curious guy in my avatar is a rice fish.
- 5 Purple pencilfish (Nannostomus Rubrocaudatus) 
- 10 Marbled hatchetfish
- 12 Spotted blue-eye rainbowfish (Pseudomugil Gertrudae)
- 8 Kuhli loaches
- 2 Stiphodon Elegans Gobies (my LFS had them listed as "elegant algae eating goby" but they're hard to find lots of info on).

The only other additions at this point might be:
1, maybe 2 Farlowellas
2-4 dwarf cichlids depending on species. 




Byron said:


> On the Farlowella; make sure it is the true Farlowella, not the "Royal" which are most likely Sturisoma. They would cause some issues in a tank of small fish. Farlowella vittata is in our profiles, it is the most commonly seen true Farlowella but you may encounter one or two other species, the profile gives data on telling them apart and has a diagram too. This species is fine solo, or a group of 3 or more. A pair would work if you could be sure of a pair. I bought three back in 2008 and it turns out I have one male and two females. They have spawned several times, always in late August through October, and I have 3 fry now almost full size that I managed to raise. A male with spawn with several females if they are ready, and he guards the eggs of all together.
> 
> On the hatchetfish; as with most fish they will face upstream if there is a current. It is often written that this fish likes a current, but in my experience over many years with this species this is inaccurate. My group of around 20 are now in the 115g 5-foot tank, and they remain at the right-hand end where there is no surface movement at all. Down at the left end there is some, and they very rarely venture down there. I have other characins lower down that behave the same. In their habitat they prefer quiet waters such as lagoons in the stream, or flooded forest. Make sure they have minimal surface water movement and they will be less stressed.
> 
> Byron.


Thanks! I just saw the Royal Farlowella in passing (did not read the latin name) and had not done any research, so I guess it is the other that I would go with. They have it listed as a Farlowella Acus. I did a quick search on the differences between the Acus and Vittata and it seems they're not a ton different behavior-wise (and often mistaken for each other). But if you have any further information in that regard feel free to throw it my way. 

My tank has the spraybar pointing at a short wall, facing slightly downwards. So there is a little current but it's not strong (like it was when I had it spraying across the tank) and it's mostly just below the spray bar. There's no movement at the surface. Maybe the hatchets are facing the other way because the water kind of circulates along the bottom toward the intake, then maybe back up? So it might feel upstream to them because of the way the bar is facing toward the bottom of the tank... Anyway, they seem very happy. Good color, eat like pigs, swim in different levels of the tank, and aren't skittish - there has been zero signs of jumping, even when I clean the tank. They're not that concerned about me now, though they were wary of the movement of us walking by the first week or so that I got them. Now they associate me with food. I think the advice here was right on in that they really like the security of floating plants, but also like the open area near the plants. 

Actually, I think all of my fish like, benefit from, and feel more secure due to the floating plants and I think more people should use them. The only ones who don't seem to care are the Rice fish. They are so easy going - seem like an ideal starter fish from what I can tell. Too bad they're not more common, as I know they also breed fairly readily when the effort is put into it. 

I remember reading that your Farlowella have spawned - how wonderful! They are unique little guys.


----------



## Byron

magpie said:


> I'll post some photos later on tonight but not yet of the gertrudae because they will be settling in.
> 
> Current stock is not much more than I already listed:
> 
> - 6 Daisy's rice fish (Oryzias Woworae) - the curious guy in my avatar is a rice fish.
> - 5 Purple pencilfish (Nannostomus Rubrocaudatus)
> - 10 Marbled hatchetfish
> - 12 Spotted blue-eye rainbowfish (Pseudomugil Gertrudae)
> - 8 Kuhli loaches
> - 2 Stiphodon Elegans Gobies (my LFS had them listed as "elegant algae eating goby" but they're hard to find lots of info on).
> 
> The only other additions at this point might be:
> 1, maybe 2 Farlowellas
> 2-4 dwarf cichlids depending on species.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I just saw the Royal Farlowella in passing (did not read the latin name) and had not done any research, so I guess it is the other that I would go with. They have it listed as a Farlowella Acus. I did a quick search on the differences between the Acus and Vittata and it seems they're not a ton different behavior-wise (and often mistaken for each other). But if you have any further information in that regard feel free to throw it my way.
> 
> My tank has the spraybar pointing at a short wall, facing slightly downwards. So there is a little current but it's not strong (like it was when I had it spraying across the tank) and it's mostly just below the spray bar. There's no movement at the surface. Maybe the hatchets are facing the other way because the water kind of circulates along the bottom toward the intake, then maybe back up? So it might feel upstream to them because of the way the bar is facing toward the bottom of the tank... Anyway, they seem very happy. Good color, eat like pigs, swim in different levels of the tank, and aren't skittish - there has been zero signs of jumping, even when I clean the tank. They're not that concerned about me now, though they were wary of the movement of us walking by the first week or so that I got them. Now they associate me with food. I think the advice here was right on in that they really like the security of floating plants, but also like the open area near the plants.
> 
> Actually, I think all of my fish like, benefit from, and feel more secure due to the floating plants and I think more people should use them. The only ones who don't seem to care are the Rice fish. They are so easy going - seem like an ideal starter fish from what I can tell. Too bad they're not more common, as I know they also breed fairly readily when the effort is put into it.
> 
> I remember reading that your Farlowella have spawned - how wonderful! They are unique little guys.


On the Farlowella species, as noted in our profile (which I wrote;-)) most reliable sources [others, not me] believe F. acus is actually F. vittata, and F. acus has perhaps rarely if ever actually been imported. Fortunately, care and requirements is identical whatever species, just providing they are Farlowella and not Sturisoma.

I certainly agree with you that floating plants are appreciated by most tropical fish; it is what they expect in their habitats, so it should come as no surprise that with floating plants they will be less stressed, more colourful, more active--and healthier.:-D


----------



## magpie

OK, here are some photos. 

First, a shot of the tank semi-recently. It's an iphone shot, so the floating plants are blown out a little.
The driftwood is still being held down by rocks, so its position will shift slightly once it is waterlogged, but probably not by much. (Haven't checked it lately, it may be ready)
I also have another small chunk of branch that is like this one (was a part of it, actually) and originally was going to add it, upright, in the right of the tank, but am not sure if I'm taking up too much swimming space. There seems to be a good amount of it right now, and the front of the tank is mostly open. 

*Should I trim the swords more? Or the other plants? How do you assure there is balance between plants and fish?* *Any suggestions for me in the scaping here?*











When I first got the Pencilfish they kept checking out the female goby. I think with her striping they were wondering if she was some kind of relative. ;-)










Hatchetfish. They are actually surprisingly beautiful... under the light they have these gold flecks that look like mica.










The lady goby is pretty well camouflaged. Rice fish in the background, Pencilfish in the foreground.
(at feeding time, and everyone has gone to the floor to search for veggie wafers to pick at).










Last night when I added the gertrudae into the dark tank (I always do it with lights off and usually leave them off for the rest of the day), the hatchetfish and ricefish were checking them out too much - they are really tiny right now and I think they were wondering if they were food. So I turned on some close lamps and fed everyone to distract them. 

The gertrudae were looking for food, so I take that as a good sign, but I didn't want to take many photos. Actually used the flash here. Still working out the settings that are best to shoot the fish. (Veggie wafer in the right corner attracting everyone).









Will have to update on the gertrudae later on.


----------



## Byron

That is a very lovely natural aquascape. Well done indeed.:welldone: And very good photos too.

Those are certainly Nannostomus rubrocaudatus, not that there was any doubt.;-) And the hatchets are the Guyana/Suriname/Colombia variant of Carnegiella strigata; they used to be a distinct species, Carnegiella strigata strigata, but Weitzman and Palmer in 2003 decided that this variant and the one named C. strigata fasciata were actually the same species with geographically diverse markings. If the fish are imported from Brazil or Peru, they are most likely the other variant. Photos in our profile illustrate the difference. I've managed to get some of both. This is one of my favourite fish, I've had a shoal of this species for as long as I've been keeping fish. They do jump though; make sure you never leave the cover open during the night, or there will be one or more of them on the floor in the morning. I speak from sad experience.

Byron.


----------



## magpie

Byron said:


> That is a very lovely natural aquascape. Well done indeed.:welldone: And very good photos too.
> 
> Those are certainly Nannostomus rubrocaudatus, not that there was any doubt.;-) And the hatchets are the Guyana/Suriname/Colombia variant of Carnegiella strigata; they used to be a distinct species, Carnegiella strigata strigata, but Weitzman and Palmer in 2003 decided that this variant and the one named C. strigata fasciata were actually the same species with geographically diverse markings. If the fish are imported from Brazil or Peru, they are most likely the other variant. Photos in our profile illustrate the difference. I've managed to get some of both. This is one of my favourite fish, I've had a shoal of this species for as long as I've been keeping fish. They do jump though; make sure you never leave the cover open during the night, or there will be one or more of them on the floor in the morning. I speak from sad experience.
> 
> Byron.


Thanks for the hatchet info- I love this kind of information! And I have totally fallen in love with them. Phillip had a dog walker come in when I was out of town for one night, and Phillip had her feed the fish. When he came home she had left the lid open and he could only count 9 hatchets and told me on the phone that one was gone. :-( I got home and counted 10 - they were safe! He either missed our random rogue hatchet or missed one that was maybe facing him instead of side-on. Phew! We are careful about leaving the tops down. And I'll never have someone feed the fish again unless we're gone for more than 5 days, I think. 

Here are 2 shots of each side of the tank. Can you please critique and let me know what needs to be trimmed or moved? Do you think there's enough swimming space and/or do you think some plants should be moved or removed or added? Now that everything's established and the tank equilibrium seems balanced, I'll need to keep up on it. The swords are taller than in the above front-view photo. When do you trim/thin them? In the past I've never had enough light/fertilization to really have to deal with that. 

I really would like any input that anyone has. Want the fish to be as happy as I can make them, and this is the largest and lushest tank I've had.

The top rock fell off the driftwood, so tomorrow I may see if it's waterlogged, and then shift it a bit, and the sword leaves won't be bunched behind it so much. 











The plants (not sure what) that were here on this side in the middle (you can see in the prior front tank view photo) got spindly and pieces rotted. I think I ruined the roots of most of them (kind of smashed them into the substrate) and I should have been trimming them. Just pulled the remaining few. I'll fill the space if needed, but right now it seems OK.


----------



## Byron

I leave sword plants alone except for bad leaves. I find that as the plant grows, older leaves tend to look "old," usually by getting spots or holes or yellowing, or sometimes algae (brush algae especially) will appear on the leaf margins, a sure sign that the leaf is dying. I remove them as I see them, so the plant is directing its resources at the newer developing leaves.

The swords will likely over-run this tank in time. Growth and behaviour depends significantly on light and nutrients. Plus they go through growth stages and rest periods, like most plants; being "Tropical" they do not die down for the "winter" but they still need a period of vegetative rest, and that is seen as a period of no new leaves. Usually following this, the inflorescence will appear, along with new leaf growth or not; sometimes just new leaves. This genus of plants is quite variable. The same species will appear quite different in different aquaria due to any number of factors, and sometimes even within the same tank due to light variations.

Byron.


----------



## Boredomb

WoW that's an amazing tank!!!


----------



## magpie

Byron said:


> I leave sword plants alone except for bad leaves. I find that as the plant grows, older leaves tend to look "old," usually by getting spots or holes or yellowing, or sometimes algae (brush algae especially) will appear on the leaf margins, a sure sign that the leaf is dying. I remove them as I see them, so the plant is directing its resources at the newer developing leaves.
> 
> The swords will likely over-run this tank in time. Growth and behaviour depends significantly on light and nutrients. Plus they go through growth stages and rest periods, like most plants; being "Tropical" they do not die down for the "winter" but they still need a period of vegetative rest, and that is seen as a period of no new leaves. Usually following this, the inflorescence will appear, along with new leaf growth or not; sometimes just new leaves. This genus of plants is quite variable. The same species will appear quite different in different aquaria due to any number of factors, and sometimes even within the same tank due to light variations.
> 
> Byron.


OK, perfect, thanks. If they start to go overwhelm things then I'll trim them back. I probably could have used one less of them (to plan for growth and maturity), but I wanted to heavily plant so that the balance would be better.

Do you think everything looks OK overall then, or should I add/remove stuff? I am happy with the way it looks visually overall, but am not really sure what the fish prefer, and you have far far more experience in that arena.


And thanks Boredomb!


----------



## magpie

To late to edit... Byron, do your Farlowella eat blanched veggies? Veggie wafers? I read that you have to be sure they're getting enough food. 

Also... with my stocking and size, would you personally get one or two of them? I've never had a "solo" fish before. If they'd be OK, maybe one would be fine, but I always lean towards at least one buddy for my fish. But... I also know my tank, once I get whatever dwarves, will be pretty close to full capacity, most likely (?). The filtration is good, and they have plenty of plants to hang out on... but I want to be sure I'm doing what's best for the tank and not just what I want (which would be a pair).


----------



## angella

Awesome tank, completely gorgeous  Good job.


----------



## willow

oh my days,it's beautiful,what a fantastic job !


----------



## kangy

Wow! absolutely gorgeous aquascape and tankmates.


----------



## magpie

Thanks everyone....


----------



## magpie

Ok, updates....

I got three Farlowella. They seem to be happy - eating a bunch, coming down to eat the prepared food and pellets and zucchini, grazing on plants and glass. There was some initial hiding and shyness but that didn't last long - maybe 3 days. I can tell each of them apart, and one of them (Slim) was the last for me to see eat prepared food, and once I saw him on an algae wafer, I felt better.  I have read that they'll be outcompeted at feeding time but they get right in there now with the Gobies and the Kuhlis no problem. 

The Gertrudae Rainbows are growing fairly quickly... they are now starting to display more to each other and they're already beautiful doing it... now for them to grow just a bit more to fully appreciate it. 

The Rainbows actually seem to like the increase in temperature that I've raised it to recently because there's been a bout of ich. (Ugh) Currently treating it right now, and anytime there's an issue I worry. Hopefully everyone will come out of it OK. I worry about the Farlowella and the Kuhlis with the Coppersafe treatment. The Ricefish are hit the worst with it, which is interesting because they've always seemed the most boisterous and bomb-proof in the tank. 

Also, yesterday, even amidst this ich treatment - I saw a tiny little fry!!! :fish:
It had blue eyes so it was either a Ricefish or a Rainbowfish. I would assume Ricefish because the Rainbows are still so small yet, but the Ricefish are sick and not very active, so who knows. Either way -so exciting! I should read up on what to do with fry and how to raise them - that might be fun to try if I could find them and separate soon enough. I suppose I'd need a little tank with heater and filter and all... or can I get some kind of contained area to keep them in the main tank to grow out? I only saw one, but it was up in the floating plants so it's hard to see if there are more. I'm sure they've become or will become dinner right now. I have frozen baby brine shrimp and tried to put some near it, just in case. ;-)

OK, a whole bunch of photos.





















They fed them cucumber and zucchini at the LFS so there was no break-in period there. The kuhlis like zucchini, too.










The Kuhlis and a Twig seeing what's left of the zucchini the next morning. They even nibbled at the skin until it was mostly gone. 










Rainbow checking to see if there'll be any edible flotsam kicked up. They hover around the bottom feeders when they're eating algae/veggie/shrimp pellets and they snatch up small crumbs behind them. Pretty clever if you ask me.










Sharing with the female goby.










I'm camoflauged










Ricefish, Rainbows, both gobies, and a twiggy










Ricefish with ich. :-(










Not a great shot, but there are 5 species in it: Goby, Ricefish, Rainbowfish, Pencilfish, Farlowella. (Dinnertime)










Some of the adorable Kuhlis.










Can't forget about the guys up top!


----------



## willow

everything looks so happy in there and the photos are so
lovely and clear.


----------



## Geomancer

Love your pictures, what do you use to take them?

I have a DSLR and am still experimenting trying to figure out how to take good clear photos. I'm a novice at it so mostly trial and error  I have a tripod with a shutter release remote to keep it perfectly still, I do this because I don't want to use the flash as it really changes the colors of the tank (and the fish hate it). But... of course that means a slower shutter speed and as we all know fish don't sit still for pictures =)


----------



## Byron

Looking good magpie, and lovely photos too.:welldone:

On the fry: when you see one or two or three fry appear in a community tank, I would just leave them. By the time they are to the size that they are out and about and visible, they will almost certainly survive. My Coral Red pencilfish, Nannostomus mortenthaleri, spawn regularly, and a couple weeks ago I spotted a fry and then a few days later saw two together. The adults ignore them (they are currently busy spawning again) and the fry don't seem nervous in their out-and-about searching for food. There is a lot of natural food in a planted and established tank, and the fry that survive predation during the egg stage or immediately post-hatching will be fine.

Sometimes narrowing down what they are can be difficult. The two fry I have do not yet look in the least like the pencil adults, aside from being linear, but there is nothing else in this tank that they resemble either--pygmy hatchetfish, dwarf banded loach, dwarf loach, pygmy Cory--so I've concluded they must be pencils.

If you want to raise larger number of them, observing the parents to ascertain possible "pairs" and moving them to a separate spawning tank is usually the best method.

Byron.


----------



## magpie

Geomancer said:


> Love your pictures, what do you use to take them?
> 
> I have a DSLR and am still experimenting trying to figure out how to take good clear photos. I'm a novice at it so mostly trial and error  I have a tripod with a shutter release remote to keep it perfectly still, I do this because I don't want to use the flash as it really changes the colors of the tank (and the fish hate it). But... of course that means a slower shutter speed and as we all know fish don't sit still for pictures =)


I use a Nikon D7000 and a 28-200 lens. This camera performs better in lower light than my prior D50. I'm still experimenting with which settings to use myself.... I haven't used a tripod, but that's a great idea. I shoot in aperture priority, auto ISO, and see what I can get away with depending on where in the tank I'm shooting. I try to use a large aperture so that the shutter speed can be faster, but of course sometimes that really makes a very small depth of field/focus. I've tried to shoot totally manually and also with shutter priority but I keep coming back to aperture priority with auto ISO. Still need to keep messing with it, though. I've found that it's tough to shoot through too much water or you get some distortion. Also, it can be hard for the camera to focus - sometimes it wants to choose the front glass or one of the many plants, so I've tried both manual and auto focus. 

I also agree re: the flash, which makes it harder. I'm wondering if it would work to use a flash but diffuse it with some tissue paper or something so it's not so harsh or that it doesn't scare the fish? Although the few times I tried the flash, they didn't seem overly bothered by it, actually. 

As you can see, my sharpest shots so far are those of the more still fish. ;-) Hatchets, twigs, gobies are much easier to shoot than the little fast rainbows. 

Of course, I also take about 5782 photos to get 10 that are sharp, especially when shooting the movers. :-D



Byron said:


> On the fry: when you see one or two or three fry appear in a community tank, I would just leave them. By the time they are to the size that they are out and about and visible, they will almost certainly survive. My Coral Red pencilfish, Nannostomus mortenthaleri, spawn regularly, and a couple weeks ago I spotted a fry and then a few days later saw two together. The adults ignore them (they are currently busy spawning again) and the fry don't seem nervous in their out-and-about searching for food. There is a lot of natural food in a planted and established tank, and the fry that survive predation during the egg stage or immediately post-hatching will be fine.
> 
> Sometimes narrowing down what they are can be difficult. The two fry I have do not yet look in the least like the pencil adults, aside from being linear, but there is nothing else in this tank that they resemble either--pygmy hatchetfish, dwarf banded loach, dwarf loach, pygmy Cory--so I've concluded they must be pencils.
> 
> If you want to raise larger number of them, observing the parents to ascertain possible "pairs" and moving them to a separate spawning tank is usually the best method.
> 
> Byron.


Thanks! I saw a fry last night, still. I still can't believe it's happening with the Coppersafe in there. I guess that shows you that it's not insanely toxic, or I don't think the fry would be alive. It's hard to find them in the floating plants... but that's probably why they / it is still alive, I guess. It makes me most happy because to me a fish wouldn't spawn unless it was comfortable. (right?)

I'll keep you updated! 



I'm no longer seeing the ich spots on any of the fish. It has been exactly one week since I dosed the tank with Coppersafe, but it was only about 82-83 for the first few days. Should I give it another few days before dropping the heat down, and then changing the water, or should I drop the heat down now/tomorrow and go with the original plan? 

My fish definitely aren't as happy with the temps up that high, with the exception being the Rainbowfish, who seem to love it. Everyone else is a bit less active. No one seems super stressed, but for example the Pencilfish are hanging out in the plants more, with lots less time out in the open. The Hatchets are a bit lighter in their markings. They're not pale, but they're not as happy. The kuhlis are hiding more during the day. Those types of things. I'm ready to drop the temps again, but I don't want to do it prematurely....


----------



## Inga

I am so jealous of all the lovely choices of fish you have. Your tank is beautiful and so peaceful looking. I wish I could swim in there.


----------



## magpie

Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Byron

> I'm no longer seeing the ich spots on any of the fish. It has been exactly one week since I dosed the tank with Coppersafe, but it was only about 82-83 for the first few days. Should I give it another few days before dropping the heat down, and then changing the water, or should I drop the heat down now/tomorrow and go with the original plan?
> 
> My fish definitely aren't as happy with the temps up that high, with the exception being the Rainbowfish, who seem to love it. Everyone else is a bit less active. No one seems super stressed, but for example the Pencilfish are hanging out in the plants more, with lots less time out in the open. The Hatchets are a bit lighter in their markings. They're not pale, but they're not as happy. The kuhlis are hiding more during the day. Those types of things. I'm ready to drop the temps again, but I don't want to do it prematurely....


I usually lower the temp back to normal after a week. The CS remains active for a month, though any water changes will obviously reduce its strength which is why I do the major wc just before the first treatment so I can let it go a few more days even after the temp is back to normal.

CS is not as strong as some treatments (hence it is safe for these delicate fish) so some of the ich may slip through. Keep an eye out for any flashing. Ich always first attacks the gills.


----------



## magpie

Thanks! I think my fish will be happy to have it back down.


----------



## magpie

I just took some tank shots and here is an updated shot. There have been a bunch of changes.

As far as the scaping goes, I need to thin the swords a bit, and I do have a small piece of driftwood that I may incorporate at some point, where the other driftwood (potentially toxic) was. Not quite positive about that yet, as right now I'm pretty happy with it and the fish seem happy too. 










To keep it a journal for myself, here's a link to another major tank issue I had after the ich was resolved. I still am not sure if it was an introduced toxin or gill flukes. Either way I had many deaths, sadly. It was not a fun period of time in my tank's history at all. Stressful and sad. 
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/sudden-tank-issues-long-94857/

Around that same time, before tragedy struck, I added a pair of wild Laetacara Araguaiae sp. "Bucklekopf" and a male Apistogramma Baenschi Inka. I just loved the curious nature of the Laetacara - they remind me a little bit of puffers. They were very owner-interactive and were fantastic snail hunters! I tried to get 2 males per a dwarf cichlid expert, to limit the chance of any breeding aggression. Well, in less than a month, the Laetacara had grown quite a bit, and apparently I had a pair, since they spawned twice in a month. Here's the thread for that, with photos of this pair, who displayed just gorgeous spawning colors. The science- and nature-dork in me LOVED watching their spawning behaviors. They were fantastic parents!
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/cichlids/laetacara-araguaiae-spawned-any-chance-community-96637/

After their second spawn, they became more territorial and were actively seeking out the Apisto, constantly chasing him. They also chased the other fish quite a bit when they approached the fry, and though they weren't hurting or damaging anyone, I felt like it wasn't fair to them to be undergoing the stress of the community fish always approaching their fry, and to the rest of the fish for continually being chased. I found out that they could potentially spawn every few weeks, so I decided to re-home them. This really saddened me (I just loved those guys), but I do see why you should generally choose a breeder or community setup for dwarves. Probably more important with wild-caught species. I think if I had chosen two males, they'd still be here. There was no aggression prior to the spawn - in fact, they deferred to the Apisto. Oh well. They're notoriously hard to sex as youngsters. 

After a discussion here, I had some fish replacing to do following my major tragedy. I chose to add some Brown-tailed Pencilfish (Nannostomus Eques), Cardinal Tetras, and White-finned Rosy Tetras (Hyphessobrycon Rosaceus).

I am loving this mix! The White-finned tetras are gorgeous and active. The Brown-tailed pencils are a wonderful visual addition with their 45-degree angled swimming pattern. The Cardinals add a nice splash of color. 

So, current stocking as of today:
- Marbled hatchetfish
- Brown-tailed pencilfish (Nannostomus eques)
- Cardinal tetras
- White-finned rosy tetras (Hyphessobrycon rosaceus)
- Kuhli loaches
- Stiphodon Elegans Gobies
- Farlowella acus 
- Apistogramma Baenschi Inka 

Once this all settles down I may consider adding another peaceful dwarf - Dicrossus maculatus. We shall see.


----------



## magpie

Here are some photos of the new inhabitants, however I need to try again as the pencilfish are hard to really give photographic justice to. They are a beautiful rich brown, with deep wine red on their tails, and in the right light, you can see blue on their pectoral fins. They remind me of seahorses for some reason. I just adore them.


Underexposed... 



















The white-finned rosy tetras, at feeding time, hoping to find some morsels on the ground. After they're done feeding in the column, they go peck at the wafers for the bottom feeders. They are pigs.









Not bullies, though. Just into food!










My guess re: sexing (without researching) is that this below is a female, and the males are the ones with the more diffuse black spot and longer dorsal fin - like the main guy in the above photo, furthest right and most in focus.










OK, that's all for now.


----------



## Byron

Beautiful fish, :nicefish: and photos.:thumbsup:


----------



## Boredomb

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Very nice Aquascape! Love the fish too!!!


----------



## rhymon78

magpie said:


>


That tank is beautiful!! I love over grown tanks, and those swords at the back are divine.....

Good job!


----------



## magpie

Thank you so much! Still think I'll thin them a touch next week but overall the fish seem happy, I'm happy, and so all is well.


----------



## rhymon78

magpie said:


> Thank you so much! Still think I'll thin them a touch next week but overall the fish seem happy, I'm happy, and so all is well.


I wouldn't, I think they look amazing. but its your tank so........:-D


----------



## Boredomb

I agree tank looks amazing just the way it is!!!!! Would love for my tank to look that way.


----------



## magpie

No reason it can't... It's low tech and I don't go bonkers with maintenance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

