# PH Emergency! How to raise the PH?



## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I have a livebearer tank thats been stable at 7.2 for a while now.

I noticed a dead fish a few days ago, took it out, and didn't worry too much. I checked the PH, and it was a little low, but nothing chronic. Since then, I've lost 3 fish in 4 days. I checked the PH again five minutes ago, and I think it was off the scale of my test strips- in the acidic range. (by color I would guess around 5.6)

My tap water is 7.2, so I don't know what happened. I applied aquarium ferts about 2 weeks ago, so that could be it, but how can I bring up the PH quick enough to prevent more deaths, but slow enough to not shock them?

Also, I wont be able to buy any specific aquarium products for a couple days- is there anything I can use in the mean time?
I do NOT use co2 fertilization, and the water is also a little too soft (also, against what my home water is!)

I was thinking of buying some Bulls-Eye 7.5 on friday but I'd hate to lose more of my fish.
I have another tank with less plants thats still around 7.2, should I move a few of my best specimens to that tank to prevent them from dying?


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Ok, for one tes it with a LIQUID kit not these strips; not only are they totally incorrect but will also give you false results after being open for a lil while.
2) Do you have driftwood in the tank that would lower you pH?
Ferts don't up/ down the pH

What's your other parameters NO2, NO3, Ammonia?


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I do have a little bitty piece of drift wood a few inches long in a front corner with java moss...
but the bizarre thing is that my aquarium ferts do lower the ph slightly. (I've decided not to use them anymore until I get a soft-water tank)

I don't know what my ammonia levels are, but my nitrites are .2 ppm with the nitrates at 10ppm (the ferts produce ammonia, so for a couple weeks after adding it the nitrites gradually go from .5ppm to 0ppm.

Oh no. I just went and talked to my buddy that gave my the ferts (he has a small goldfish container on his porch) and he told me they are pond ferts, not aquarium ferts. maybe thats the problem...He uses a pound per 4 square feet of surface area. I was using a tbsp in my ten gal every 5 weeks.
Geez, he was trying to kill my fish. Glad I didn't sell any...

I read on a cichlid web site that a combination of table salt, epsom salt, and baking soda can lower and buffer the PH as well as a commercial product. anyone ever tried it? The guy seems to know what he's talking about.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> I do have a little bitty piece of drift wood a few inches long in a front corner with java moss...
> but the bizarre thing is that my aquarium ferts do lower the ph slightly. (I've decided not to use them anymore until I get a soft-water tank)
> 
> I don't know what my ammonia levels are, but my nitrites are .2 ppm with the nitrates at 10ppm (the ferts produce ammonia, so for a couple weeks after adding it the nitrites gradually go from .5ppm to 0ppm.
> ...


*Please* do not start putting stuff in this tank. I can all but guarantee you it will worsen the problem.

To answer your question as to what you can do immediately,* do a partial water change of half the tank,* no more at one time. This will ease the stress from the high nitrite (anything above zero is high to fish) and help to stabilize and raise the pH. Test the pH, ammonia and nitrite afterwards (wait about an hour). Test again tomorrow, and do another 50% pwc if the nitrite is still above zero. Let us know the test results.

I could go into details about this, but won't in the interest of getting the post to you. Use a good water conditioner. Put nothing else in the tank. And don't use those plant ferts. We can go into all these issues later.

Byron.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

I'm right there with B. Don't use that Pond stuff!!! Normal aquarium plant fert's like Flourish will not amend your water like this.
Was this my tank I'd do a 50% today and another larger w/c tomorrow; and if need be dep on the water parameters either keep this up every day or every 2nd day till these parameters are in check there again


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## Robanada (Jan 16, 2010)

redchigh said:


> I read on a cichlid web site that a combination of table salt, epsom salt, and baking soda can lower and buffer the PH as well as a commercial product. anyone ever tried it? The guy seems to know what he's talking about.


Check it: Baking soda = sodium carbonate = weak base. Table salt = sodium chloride. Common ion effect/lechatlier's principle: If you mix baking soda and table salt, it will make the resulting solution LESS basic (lower pH, not what you want) than a sodium bicarbonate solution. This is because the extra sodium coming from the table salt forces the sodium coming from the baking soda to bond with its CO3H ion, rather than allowing that ion to pull a proton from a hydronium (acidic) ion. Epsom salt would also make the solution somewhat basic, but independently of the other two- no common ions.

In short, I'd use a phosphate solution, personally.This is because it's a strong acid, however, it's polyprotic = forms multiple weak acids and salts -> buffer. This means that with the proper mixture of monosodium (once deprotonated, still weakly acidic) or disodium (twice deprotonated, rather basic) phosphate, you can make a very versatile buffer. 
Remember, it's not the amount that you put in that changes the pH, it's the relative quantites- the amount controls the strength (resistance to change) of the buffer. 
Best of all, phosphate buffers are found in nature =)

Just...so you know, I've never tried this on my fish before- this is strictly from a chemist's perspective! I can assure you that the chemistry is correct, but I can't make any promises about saving your fish. 

Here's a good site to help you figure out exactly what you need, if you decide to use a phosphate buffer:
Phosphate Buffer Calculation (Javascript)


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

hmm that could have something to do with the problem to begin with... I added salt about 2 months ago, and baking soda around the same time as the ferts. Could the salt left behind be enough to trigger the acid creation?

on a different note, Is that why if you bake dry baking soda it becomes acidic?

On the test strip debate, I can't afford liquid test kits right now. Around here, the cheapest one is $40. The test strips that test no2, no3, hardness, and alkalinity, and ph were $10. Just figured it was better than nothing.

I just tested my dechlorinated tap water- its 6.8. Looks like I'll still need something to lower it more. Any suggestions?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> hmm that could have something to do with the problem to begin with... I added salt about 2 months ago, and baking soda around the same time as the ferts. Could the salt left behind be enough to trigger the acid creation?
> 
> on a different note, Is that why if you bake dry baking soda it becomes acidic?
> 
> ...


You've confused me. Originally the problem was a drop in pH from tap 7.2 to 5 something. My advice to do pwc would begin to address that, but as I noted in that post, the reasons I left for later. I'll explain. But first, in this post you say it is 6.8 and you want to lower it...which is it?

You have livebearers--they will not do well in acidic water. They require some mineral hardness and higher pH, mid 7's would be perfect.

And while not generally accurate, strips are better than nothing, so don't worry over that. When I have your answers to the above I'll offer suggestions/explanations for what occurred. B.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Byron said:


> You've confused me. Originally the problem was a drop in pH from tap 7.2 to 5 something. My advice to do pwc would begin to address that, but as I noted in that post, the reasons I left for later. I'll explain. But first, in this post you say it is 6.8 and you want to lower it...which is it?
> 
> You have livebearers--they will not do well in acidic water. They require some mineral hardness and higher pH, mid 7's would be perfect.
> 
> And while not generally accurate, strips are better than nothing, so don't worry over that. When I have your answers to the above I'll offer suggestions/explanations for what occurred. B.



Sorry I'm a bit panicked. My tap water was 7.2 when I set up the aquarium, but now its 6.8.

I definately need my Tank PH around 7.2-7.5 (many of my guppies' gills are beginning to turn inflammed so I'm worried)

Even if I do water changes, the PH won't be high enough. It'll be an improvement, sure, but not quite high enough. What can I do beyond water changes to bring it up to mid 7's?


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

What's your hardness? Anything that'll bring up your hardness if even by 1-2 degrees will bring up your tanks pH too.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Angel is correct, and it is easier to raise hardness and pH than it is to lower it. I use dolomite gravel, either in the substrate or filter. In the substrate, the problem is that it is there permanently (have to tear the tank down to remove all or some of it), but in the filter you can easily change the amount.

First to explain your falling pH. In an established tank, the biological processes work to lower the pH by acidifying the water. The degree of hardness--basically calcium and magnesium--in the tap water act as a buffering through carbonates, and if the tap water is say moderately hard, and you do weekly partial water changes of 40% or so, the tank will remain fairly stable at the pH of the tap water. The softer the water, meaning the less calcium and magnesium, the less carbonates, so the less buffering action and the pH drops normally due to the biological actions.

You can add hardness via dolomite or similar calcareous substances. Crushed coral works, as do marble chips; or so I'm told, I've never used these. But in my tanks I have half a cup of dolomite in the filter and it maintains a GH of 2 [tap water is zero] and a pH of 6 - 6.2 [tap water is 7 but with no hardness the tank remains acidic, and would be 5 without the dolomite].

You could take some tap water to the fish store and ask them to test the hardness just to know; make sure they test KH and GH and give you the numbers. Or you might contact your water supply people and ask, they often know and it may be on their website. This helps to know because you may not need much calcareous material to raise it to mid 7's. Using dolomite or similar is much safer because it is constant [my dolomite has worked for years] and less likely to fluctuations.

As noted previously, livebearers must have moderately hard and basic/alkaline water. Calcareous rock is the best way; limestone or lava rock in the tank would do some, but very minimally; the broken up dolomite is much more effective.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

You find find plenty calcareous"gravels" in your homestores garden center. Dep on the tank's size adding anywhere's from 1/4 cup to 1 cup will be plenty sufficient to raise the hardness so far that you have a stable pH of 7.5 no problem whatsoever.
If you can't easily access your filter a lil bag like a sock etc to be hung in the back of your tank close to the filters outlet will do that trick too.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I have a few lava rocks in the tank already simply as decoration LOL.

Hmmm. What about epsom salts by itself? Supposedly on the other side Epsom salts increase General Hardness, so would that increase my PH?
I think I also have a piece of dolomite in it as decoration as well.

According to my test strips the KH is 40ppm (low) and the GH is approx 50-75ppm (soft)


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

As far as I know lava isn't calcareous; or not calcareous enough to make a difference anyway (obviously in your case)

I'm not 100% on the Epsom salt alone how far this takes ya; I only know to use the combo of Epsom salts and calcium chloride.

Which means you have 2dKH and 3dGH....I"d try raise the dKH to 5 that should get it stable enough.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Epsom salts, which of course is pure magnesium sulfate, not really a "salt" as we commonly think of salt, will raise the GH; calcium and magnesium are the minerals that basically determine water hardness. I experimented with this last year and nearly killed all my plants from magnesium excess which causes a potassium deficiency. As you have plants in the tank, you have to be very careful, especially as your use of that other fert has affected things.

It would be a solution to raise the pH now to ease the stress on the fish. However, raising it quickly is also stressful. Looking back in this thread I couldn't spot an indication of the tank size. How many gallons is this tank? I can offer you a suggested dose to help without (hopefully) damaging the plants, but that risk is there.

Byron.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Just me 2 cents....any crushed calcareous rock material sounds a heck lot safer to me; If its something Byron has tried who's like THE most cautions person on their tanks I could think of and it killed his plants (so I know he's not just been the noob dummy who OD'ed there at all), personally I'd stay away from it then.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

It's a measly little ten gallon tank.

Thats probably one of the problems.. smaller tanks are more unstable. (or so I've read)


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

That is indeed very true and its simple: If you add 1 drop Ammonia to a 10g you're up for a disaster if you add 1 drop Ammonia in a 100g its diluted down so far that you may get away with it.

However that does not change the fact you have a source water that got next to no hardness, like me here, and that right there makes for a bouncy pH unless you take the named measure above.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

You're correct, in a 10g whatever you do to alter the water chemistry can have quite an effect. I dug out my charts for when I tried magnesium sulfate, and note that it raised the GH but had no effect on the pH. If you don't have a test kit for hardness, I would not experiment with fish in the tank. I was able to raise the hardness over a week by a few degrees, but I have no idea how this might equate to a 10g tank (I was working with a 90g). I am loathe to suggest something that could kill your fish or plants. B.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

Byron said:


> You're correct, in a 10g whatever you do to alter the water chemistry can have quite an effect. I dug out my charts for when I tried magnesium sulfate, and note that it raised the GH but had no effect on the pH. If you don't have a test kit for hardness, I would not experiment with fish in the tank. I was able to raise the hardness over a week by a few degrees, but I have no idea how this might equate to a 10g tank (I was working with a 90g). I am loathe to suggest something that could kill your fish or plants. B.


I think that in my case the safest thing for me to do would be a product at the aquarium store that sets and buffers the PH to 7.5. 

In my head, wouldn't that be the least risky? no experimenting, no killing my fish becuase my PH strips were bad, etc.

BTW, my strips measure DH, GH, PH, NO2, and NO3


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

These Chem's from the bottle there will more often then not do a whole lot more for you then only pH and it should also be noted that with these you're often very likly to have your pH swing up & down with he w/c's and that's very stressful to your fish (stress = unhealthy = early or sudden death).

Like said before; just use any crushed calcareous rock such as coral or dolomite; add to the tank to up& stablize the hardness; pH will automatically follow this by the law's of chemistry and done. THAT is the least risky option out of all the out there.


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## lennyboy222 (Jan 13, 2010)

To raise PH, I would perform a water change. I suggest you to use RO water as you can easily change the chemistry of RO water. You can buy one off eBay for $50. When using RO water, make sure to use RO right products to add hardness to water and use PH buffer to adjust the PH as desired.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

lennyboy222 said:


> To raise PH, I would perform a water change. I suggest you to use RO water as you can easily change the chemistry of RO water. You can buy one off eBay for $50. When using RO water, make sure to use RO right products to add hardness to water and use PH buffer to adjust the PH as desired.


I know this is an oldish post, but I wanted to mention something on that last reply. RO water wouldn't work in my case bacause RO water is extremely soft. (RO removes everything from the water that's not H2O. )

BTW, I landed on a solution that worked for me, and I thought I'd post it.

Calcium is what I needed in the water, right?

I used plain, regular, chalk. (calcium carbonate). 

I stuck two sticks in the filter, and slowly but surely, over the course of a week or two, everything got to where it should be. :-D


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

redchigh said:


> I know this is an oldish post, but I wanted to mention something on that last reply. RO water wouldn't work in my case bacause RO water is extremely soft. (RO removes everything from the water that's not H2O. )
> 
> BTW, I landed on a solution that worked for me, and I thought I'd post it.
> 
> ...


Monitor the pH regularly. I use dolomite gravel in my filter for the same reason. It takes a bit of experimenting to find the right amount that will consistently buffer the pH. It could rise more than you want and too fast, I've no idea personally how fast chalk might release calcium. Nor do I know at what stage it may be depleted. But adding calcium is the best method to raise hardness/pH. B.


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