# New to saltwater need advice



## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Hi guys,
Yesterday I was given a free saltwater tank complete with fish. It was my niece's boyfriends tank and he left and abandoned the tank about 3 weeks ago. She did not know how to take care of it and didn't want it so asked if I would take it. Now, I've kept freshwater fish for over 15 years but I've never done SW. So I'm here looking for advice from my salty FF friends. 

Here's the details on the tank. It's a 20 gallon tank with a Fluval 105 cannister filter. There's also an airstone and a small powerhead for circulation. There's about 15-20 lbs of rock (I was told it was live) and about 1/2" of sand (don't know what kind). The fish are 1 Ocellaris Clownfish (about 1-1/2"), 3 Blue Green Chromis (2"), 1 Yellowtail Damsel (1"), 1 what I think is an Azure Blue Damsel (2"), and some kind of a Butterfly fish (3"). This seems kind of overstocked to me. I did some tests today and here are the results:

Ph: 7.8 (too low?)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: Waaayyy too high!! Somewhere between 80-160 too hard to discern the difference on the card
Used API liquid test kit
Temp: 74F (the heater had broke, I just picked one up today and need to put it in)
Salinity 1.020 (need to adjust?)

So I have several questions:
1) I know the nitrates need to be brought way down. How much water can I change at once in a SW setup? What else can be done to bring the nitrates down?

2) What else should I be testing for? I think alkalinity and calcium?

3) Eventually I would like to get some kind of a clean up crew like snails or a shrimp. What are some easy critters that will fit into this tank?

The fish seem to have come through the move quite well and are eating good. Below are some pics I took. Can someone identify the Butterfly fish and confirm the others?

Thanks so much for taking the time to read this long post.


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## terryap (Sep 22, 2009)

Hi I'm new to saltwater too, but one thing I know, that is not an angel fish it is a butterfly fish and they need large tanks to live in, I have a 20 gallon also, but with only one fish so far, I may add another, but I will will have more than 2 until I get a bigger tank, hope it works out well for you! I am sure the other more experienced SW members can help you out with more advice, here is a picture I found for you in regards to the butterfly fish, you may also want to check out liveaquaria.com for some useful advice on marine fish:


Tear Drop Butterflyfish



​


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Yeah, I knew it was a Butterfly fish just didn't know which kind. I'll have to rehome him since he'll get too big for the tank. Shame cause he's so friendly. Thanks for the info.


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## Arkamaic (May 28, 2009)

Welcome to SW =)

Ph needs to be higher. Closer to 8.3 ish.

Yes, you need to test for alkalinity and calcium, will allow better judgment n where your Ph should be.

Salinity is ok I think, mine is at 1.021-1.022.

As for WC, I have a 92 gallon tank, with a 15 gallon sump. I had nitrate probs earlier, and I changed 32 ish gallons and never had any problems, and the tank is happy as can be now =)


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## terryap (Sep 22, 2009)

oops sorry, thought you mentioned Angel for some reason.....but you should check out live aquaria lots of info and the site mentions what size tank is recommended for each species and also about temperament and what foods are best suited.
what about a protein skimmer, does the tank have one ?


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

No, no protein skimmer. How are you liking the Seaclone 100? And if I may ask, how much did you pay for it?

Ark, Thanks for the info. I'll try a 30% change. Should I be using RO water for water changes? Once nitrates are under control what is the usual amount for water changes and how often ? I do weekly 25-30% changes on my freshwater tanks. Is weekly needed for salt also?


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## terryap (Sep 22, 2009)

Well for the size tank I have it works allright, but when I get a bigger tank, I will definately change.
but with a 20 gallon it works fairly well.
I paid 150$$ but that's in Canada ......, when I priced it online in the U.S. I beleive it was approximately 80 $$ pretty sure it was petco I saw it at. So not a bad price, and very easy 5 min. set up

I definately think you should use RO water, when I first tried this hobby a few years ago, I used regular tap water, and I am pretty sure this is where the problems started, lots of annoying algae for one...and levels where out of whack often
I buy the RO water at the local super market


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

ahhh.... I am in a hurry and don't have time to respond properly. I will post again in the morning. My quick word of advice is to take everything SLOWLY. AFter a move you want to allow observation time and time for the fish to settle in. I would not do any large scale water changes yet. Just sit back and wait a few weeks. Nothing much will change.

In the meanwhile, it is vital that you get an alkalinity and calcium test kit. Also, pick up Kent Marine SuperBuffer DKH and Kent Marine Liquid Calcium (calcium chloride). This will allow adjustments to be made as needed. More to follow. 

I really like that Teardrop. Beautiful fish! Shame it has to go.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

Here are new readings as of today 11/15:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: Still way high, between 80-160
Ph: 8.0-8.2 (hard to tell which one on the API card)
Kh: 9
Calcium: over 520 (took 33 drops to turn color)
SG: 1.022
Temp: 76F

I believe the calcium should be between 400-500? Is it bad if it's higher? How do I adjust that if needed?
Still fighting with high nitrates. Water change day is tomorrow. Should I do more than the 20-25% I've been doing weekly? Fish are fed once a day only what they eat in about 1 minute.

Pasfur, I did pick up the Kent Marine SuperBuffer DKH and it appears it's helped raise the Ph and KH a bit. I have not picked up the liquid calcium yet. Will I still need it with such a high reading?


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

bump...


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Are you using all API tests for your Calcium and pH and dKH? I have had better luck with Salifert for dKH and Calcium, and I use a different test kit for pH, but I can never remember the name. I will check when I get home.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

This is what I use for pH: Elos Aqua Kit. I think they are the easiest to read for pH tests.


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## willieturnip (Aug 30, 2009)

I have the API pH test and it's great.


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

elos test kits are just as good as saliferts IMO.


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## willieturnip (Aug 30, 2009)

I'd also like to say how happy I am that somebody with something between their ears has taken this tank over.

The fact that your testing your water right off the bat installs confidence. 

Is there any media in the canister filter? To reduce nitrates for the time being you could clean the media in tank water daily. I would not recommend any for of mechanical filtration in a saltwater tank, but removing it in one hit would more than likely lead to a complete system crash.

Look at some of the build threads to get an idea of how to go about setting up a nice stable marine aquarium. Virtually everyone on the forum uses the same methodology. 

With marines, your aiming to build an eco system that isn't particularly dependent on your intervention (unlike freshwater). You want live rock for biological filtration and a clean up crew for detritus and algae removal.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

jeaninel said:


> Pasfur, I did pick up the Kent Marine SuperBuffer DKH and it appears it's helped raise the Ph and KH a bit. I have not picked up the liquid calcium yet. Will I still need it with such a high reading?


Alkalinity is always dropping in a marine system, requiring the use of a buffer and periodic water change to help keep it "high". Using both alkalinity and calcium tests together allow you to predict with a greater degree of accuracy when you need to change water, as opposed to simply adding a buffer and hoping for the best. 

I was somewhat inspired by your question yesterday when I posted this:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...calcium-testing-important-every-marine-33079/


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## zaitmi (Sep 23, 2009)

i just read it, it was awesome. i will print it out.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

I've read that post also and it has some great info. Very helpful.

In the cannister filter there are some foam blocks in the pre-filter. I rinse these in used tank water when I do water changes but I'll start rinsing them out every day. All 3 trays are filled with carbon, not the granulated kind, but what looks like Kent Reef Carbon (little "sticks"). Also, I just discovered a bag of this carbon in the supplies in the cabinet. I need to start changing out the carbon as I don't know how old the stuff is that's in the filter. I'll change out 1 tray at a time since there is probably BB established in there. 

Also, I added some snails and a Peppermint shrimp a couple weeks ago. The Turbo snails (Trochus) are amazing and have done an _awesome_ job of cleaning up the rocks which were covered in brown algae. I have 2 Turbo snails, 2 Bumblebee snails and 1 Peppermint shrimp. Is this ok for a CUC?

Eventually I want to get some more live rock. I would also like a protein skimmer in place of the cannister filter but finances right now are really tight. Will the cannister filled with carbon be ok for such a small tank for now?

Pasfur, I saw your post about that deal on the protein skimmer for small tanks. I wonder how long that sale will go for. With X-mas coming up and the fact that I have recently seperated from my husband it will be awhile before I can budget it in.

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions guys!


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## onefish2fish (Jul 22, 2008)

if memory serves right i think there have been issues with bumblebee snails. i cant remember if they eat coral polyps or other snails/meaty foods. im leaning towards them being canivores but it could be both? 
i suggest more snails of different sorts. astrea turbos, ceriths, nerites, stomatellas, nassarious.. a few of each will do in a 20 gallon. you dont need to run out and get them all at once, they can be added at any time and remember more can always be added easier then it would be to try and return some or sell them.
i just looked back and saw the fish that came with the tank. i wish you were closer and i could have bought it from you. how about that damsel? have you seen issue?

speaking outloud here ( esp as i know budget is tight ) but another 20 gallon as a sump with a deep sand bed and some chaeto algae would make a nice setup. even better finding a used 40 breeder as the display and using the 20 as the sump. the dementions of the 40 breeder make it great for a saltwater tank and at the same time it isnt that large of an upgrade.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

I had a few of the Astrea snails also. However, they seem to tend to fall off the rocks and then they can't right themselves and die if I don't notice them on their sides. Maybe I'll try a few more.

The Bumblebees I've read are omnivore and will burrow through the sand eating sand dwelling worms and also are great at getting the algae in small crevices in the rock because of their small size. I haven't had any issues between them and the Turbos.

The damsels are doing fine. The bigger Blue Damsel sometimes tends to chase the smaller Yellowtail but it's usually a short chase. Other then that, they get along fine with the other fish.

You know, I do have in the back of my mind that I would like to keep an eye out for a bit larger SW tank as I really don't care for the dimensions of this one. It's a 20 extra high and I'd rather have a tank with more length to it. But, I'm probably not going to consider that route until maybe next year sometime. Besides, I have my hands full now with the 8 tanks I already have. LOL


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

jeaninel said:


> Besides, I have my hands full now with the 8 tanks I already have. LOL


8) Good times. This is how is starts. An innocent 8 tanks. Then you have 10. Then 15. Then 20. Then 30. Then one day you look up at a fishroom with 48 tanks and wonder if you should be committed.


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