# Unfiltered Tub pond



## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

I was thinking about making a pond out of a plastic storage container like this . . 










Its huge and about 50 Gal . . .

Just want to put in some fancy guppies.

Can I have them in this tub outdoors? This wont be filtered but I plan to change 20% of water daily.

I'm also planning on getting some pond plants. Maybe have some hornwort in there as well.

Where I live is pretty hot almost everyday. We do get some nice rain but its still hot. So temperature isn't a problem.

Do you think it's a good idea?


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## Ulyaoth (Jan 9, 2010)

I was just going to ask about this. I have a tub pond already in my yard for years now, never put anything in it, just full of water and rocks. I was looking at a couple different things of people saying they just put fish like guppies and bettas in without any care and they took them in at winter with tons of fry and the original fish all large, so I figure it should work. Mine is about 50gallons too, just wondering what types of plants to put in it. I was thinking of putting a lot of the java fern baby plants growing on the leaves in my aquarium in there, but would need more. Also it tends to turn completely green all the time, what could I do to control algae?


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

Some local people in my fish club do this in the summer. They use 50 to 300gal bins and cattle troughs for fish. Some do no filter, no heater, no water changes all summer. Usually the tub is seeded from a pond in early spring, and dirt/much is added to the bottom. Live plants can be added too. It is allowed to go green, basically one big green water culture. Then daphnia is added to the bin, once they have reached a decent population. Fish are added, usually this is for egg laying fish. Young and adults can often live and breed in this tub for some time feeding off of all the microorganisms. Livebears, probably don't need so much prep, especially if you plan to feed them. A number of people recommend a fountain to provide some circulation and aeration of water. 

With no water changes, most install overflows, which are just holes cut in side of bin where you want the water level to be. Then screen is fitted over the holes, this stops bin from overflowing when it rains. It can rain quite a bit in MN/WI, if you live in a more arid climate this may not work. 

If we can do it while being neighbors to Canada you shouldn't have a problem.


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

*My unfiltered tub pond project*

I was surprised to see your post. I'm making a tub unfiltered pond also for my yard. I'm going to put a small bubbler fountain in the middle. The plants will be Hornwort/Anacharis that you can pick up at any pet store. These plants are best to filter the water without a filter. Hornwort & Anacharis sucks out fish wastes faster than fish can excrete them. Carbon dioxide, Ammonia,Nitrites, Nitrates and Phosphates all go into the fast-growing foliage. They are also one of the top oxygenating plants to have in a aquarium or pond. Anacharis you can get at Petco for about $2.99 a bunch.

I checked craigslist in my area and this guy has water hyacinths and Mosquito fish that I might pick up.
I checked Homedepot and they now have Waterlily bulbs for $9.98 comes in white,yellow, or red flowers. In the Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine April 2008 issue under The Planted Tank section they have a big article on Vegetative filters for your water garden or fish tub. They listed these plants:

Hornwort- very good plant for filtering water
Anacharis-very good plant for filtering water
Water Hyacinths- This is the best vegetative filter for a pond or tub

Fish list that are good for small tub ponds:

mosquito fish
small gold fish- small tub only 1-2



I plan on putting pea gravel on the bottom. I bought 3 bags for $3.50 ea at Walmart
I bought the big rustic looking tub at Walmart for $25
The fountain pump was about $25 at Homedepot

I have not put it together yet but plan on taking photos of my project and putting it on youtube.
Here are 2 pictures of the Tub + supplies I got so far.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I was thinking about the same thing...

The only reason I don't really want to use guppies is the fact that from above, they're quite dull. Might as well have bait minnows in it...

The daphnia/Green water is a good idea... will keep the water clear I suppose... (If the fish don't eat all of them.)

The only thing I really wanted to say, is I think Vallis are good oxygenators too... and would give a great cover for daphnia to make sure they weren't all eaten.
(I was just gonna make my "pond" in a rectangular rubber-maid bin. The pot looks much nicer.)


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks, I saw this bright yellow poly resin pot at Walmart and did not like the bright yellow color and in the garden dept. on the high shelf I found this rustic poly resin pot it's plastic and does not have a hole in it so it is perfect. It sure looks better then a bucket. I almost was going to settle for a bucket with the handles also. I did not think of putting Vallisneria in it. I have some of this in my 55 gal. tank. It grows like a weed like kelp. The other plants I mentioned are better for water clarity and filtering without a filter. Once my water hyacinths or waterlily bloom it will shade the pot so the water should not get to green. I guess you can use a UV sterilizer if you want clear water. I would think that the algae would be good for any fish you put in as it would be self contained eco-environment with out a filter.


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## Angel079 (Feb 14, 2007)

Just a few ideas judging from my in-ground pond here I'd not sit it in a spot that gets direct sunlight 24/7 but maybe only morning sunlight. Rainwater will do the trick for you for water exchanges, if you have extra plants maybe from a tank of yours toss some in (Pennywort works great for that)...then the only last advise I'd have make sure you have no dog on the property like mine who WILL go and regard it as the most fancy water bowl he's ever had and try to drink-snatch a fish, drink-snatch a fish....otherwise add a screen cover over it


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. My tub is 19"H x 24"W. I have a dog but it is a Miniture Pinscher and is only about 13" tall so I do not need to worry about her using it as a water bowl. I suppose that it can pose as a hazzard if you have small children as they can fall inside the pond.


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

redchigh said:


> I was thinking about the same thing...
> 
> The only reason I don't really want to use guppies is the fact that from above, they're quite dull. Might as well have bait minnows in it...
> 
> ...


Yes daphina will tend to get eaten. though the tubs kept around here are generally for breeding the tubs were setup in a way to provide live food for the fish. Considering the tubs are ususally very lightly stocked, like a breeding school of 6-8 rainbows in a 200+ gal cattle trough is how most do it. Fish condition themselves on the daphnia and breed. The tub should have enough smaller microorganisms to feed the fry. Since we have winter our tubs are only temporary. How long they can go depends on many things.


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

*Updated: Unfiltered tub pond pics*

Here are some more pictures of how my pond came out.

Picture 1

The first picture is of some of the supplies I needed. I have Silicone Aquarium safe seal for the clear tubing I had to put in the back for drainage in case of rain water over filling the tub so it will drain. I drilled a hole above the water line and then siliconed the tubing in place in the back. I then used tie wraps to secure the plant basket in back. I drilled 2 holes on each side of the basket and 2 holes on the tub pot. I then used tie wraps to secure the basket. I used a plastic plant pot for a stand for the pump.

Picture 2

The back of the tub where the drain tubing went and the basket got secured to the back with the water Iris, I put gravel on the top of the pot.

Picture 3

The plastic pot stand for the water fountain to sit on 

Picture 4 

The empty pot with 2 bags of gravel on the bottom with the fountain pump in the center.

Picture 5,6,7

3 pictures of the tub pond with water in it. I put a Water Hyacinth in the pond instead of the waterlily. I got the Water Hyacinth at a garden shop for $2.99. The guy at the garden shop gave me some duckweed for free to float in the pond. I also go 2 pond platies that they had in their outside pond for free. I gave them my 2 Mosquito fish for their pond as I liked the Pond Platies better. I also put some Hornwort from my aquarium in the pond.

Picture 8

The Pond Platies that I put in the tub pond. They are a nice yellow color and 1 is pregnate.l


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## PaperclipGirl (Feb 7, 2010)

How beautiful that turned out! 

I just got my pond partly set up today. I bought a peace lily to put in mine, but the pond is already quite shaded. 


I bought a plastic stock tank at the farm store. Will get pics up soon!


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

Wow!

I guess that I am not the only person thinking about the same thing! 

I have decided to use a 30 gal for space reasons. Still not going to filter this pond nor am I going to introduce flow. 

I was wondering if I can use garden soil as a substrate instead of gravel. I dont want the fish waste getting stuck between the gravel but broken down into the soil. 

I plan to put all my mollies, including the now almost 2 and a half week old fry in this setup. Maybe my betta breeding pair in a smaller version. 

Let me know what you think...


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

ByTheWay . . .

This is the first website to officially dedicate a page to unfiltered tub ponds!!! 

Lets make this page a more used page. Post updates on your projects here!!!


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks TankMAster. Sorry that I posted my project onto your thread.But you are right. I looked online and could not find anything good on Tub pond projects. On YouTube someone used a flowerpot but it did not look very good. I might put my pictures on that web-site.

As for garden soil in the tub I would not use that as some garden soil has fertilizers and plant food in it.Some will float up on the surface and foul your tub pond water.Use aquarium gravel. Walmart had a small bag for $3.25 and a bigger bag for not that much more. If you want to cycle the tub fast I would use Eco-Complete on the bottom. If you have an indoor Aquarium with filter pads in the filter you can squeeze them into the tub pond like I did. Or you can use some of your aquarium gravel or sand from your indoor aquarium. If you know someone that has a aquarium borrow their filter pad or a small scoop of gravel to get the bio going. I also used this stuff called Cycle to get the bio going. Do a 1/4 th water change once a week and use a water test kit to test the water once a week . I like the API dropper test kit as they are more accurate then the test strips. I would not worry so much about fish waste as these water filtering plants should take care of it and getting the bio going in the gravel will help also with the water changes til it gets up and running. The Water Hyacinth is a very good plant according to my Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine article dated April 2008. Here is some of the stuff that was written in the magazine below: 

Water Hyacinth
-This is probably the best vegetative filter for the pond, water garden, or fish tub. It is so efficient in removing wastes, it can double its population size in two weeks. It is so highly regarded that it is often used for sewage treatment.
-Water Hyacinth is most practical because as a floating plant it requires no potting, displacing less water and making less mess.It shades your fish tub from the sun while helping to keep heat from evaporating at night. Its long thick roots are natural spawing mops and hideouts for a vaiety of fishes. It will flower a couple of times in the season, but more frequently with some fertilizer. So as a not to introduce more nutrients into your fish tub, you can sit your water hyacinth for a day in fertilized water and then depostit it back in your water garden. This will enhance its green color, if yellowed, and promote blooming.
- This plant is a invasive plant in many parts of the United States and the rest of the world, so it might not be available in your states.It can not overwinter, even in the home aquarium, so don't bother. Just purchase one or two new plants at the start of the season.Water Hyacinths do best when placed outside when water temps reach 65F.
- Other plants include flowering Pickerel Pontederia spp., are some of the best water filteration plants. Especially good is the variety of P. cordata known as "Crown Point", Hornwort floating plant sucks out fish waste faster then fish can excrete them. Carbon dioside,ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and phosphates all go into this fast growing foliage, Anacharis is another great water filtering plant.

Placement and removal

Timing the placement and removal of your fish and plants is also important. You can start your tub in early spring, as the plants start to grow.Since there is no fish or food wastes to be utilized. You can put out your tropical fish when when the day temperature reaches 70F or higher consistently for several days. Over the summer your fish will adjust well to the slowly changing temperatures, and you can take them in before the first frost date in your area.Refer to your species specifications. As an example, here in the northern New Jersey area the warm season generally runs three months from late June through late September. Cooler-water fish, like goodeids, paradise fish. variatus platies.white clouds mountain minnows, and rosy barbs can often go out and stay out a couple of weeks longer. But watch your forecast and don't tempt fate! Better to have a shorter fish-tub season than a dead one.Your plants however will continue to grow and bloom through the fall. And so will your enjoyment of this outdoor niche of the aquarium hobby!


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## Ulyaoth (Jan 9, 2010)

I've heard that the day night temperature swing can be really stressful to the fish. Around me by June when I guess I'll put the fish out the average temperature is about high 70s high, 60 low, hottest in July gets around low of low 70s, high is high 80s-low 90s. But mine is burried in the ground so I figure it'll keep it around a more stable temperature, warmer in the nights and not getting too hot during hot days, right?

Another thing, not sure if any stores around me carry pond plants, I'll check later, I was thinking a lily would be perfect for shading the water, but was just wondering if anything more would probably be too much, my pond is around 50gallons, about 4foot wide by 2 feet across I guess, it's curved so not really sure about dimensions and such. If I can't find any stores, I'll probably buy this package, http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=767+2423+2430&pcatid=2430
Are those good plants? Would they likely get too big or anything or be too much?

Also, does it need to cycle? And would I need to put conditioner in the water or can I just let it sit out for a while before the fish go in or I put the water in?


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

eileen said:


> Thanks TankMAster. Sorry that I posted my project onto your thread.


No no no . . . don't be sorry. I guess we just made history with regard to this hobby.We may not be the first to have setup an unfiltered tub pond but we are the first to offer information and updates to other enthusiasts who type :" Unfiltered tub pond" in Google !!

Imagine all those searching for information or those battling for space for tanks. This thread is going to have more hits than any other pond page on the net! 

This is a outdoor tub alternative to a standard freshwater aquarium!

[applause] . . . 

We just made history!

_______________________________________________________________________

Does anyone think that this setup will suffice for breeding? 

I think the sun and the moon have total effect on when and how often fish breed. Take guppies for example. Fry born in this setup will be really hardy and have deep colors compared to fry born in an indoor setup. Being outdoors, I think the sun and moon play a vital role in lighting and may trigger the urge to spawn sooner.

In the wild, these fish spawn like crazy. If you move these fish into an aquarium environment, their climate changes. There is no sun or moon to tell them when its the right time to spawn but just a tank light. 

Although this is just a theory, it does make sense. 

Has anyone noticed their betta making huge nests during a full/new moon? I have. Keep your male betta outdoors for 1 - 3 days, making sure there is no bubble nest. Observe his enclosure and take note of the size of the nest. 


This is a challenge to find out just how much a fish may change it's behavior outdoors compared to a simulated environment indoors.

Take note of color changes and feeding habits maybe even stress levels. 

How does the unmonitored water conditions affect the fish.

Leave a few female live bearers who won't drop outdoors in this setup and see if they will spawn.

I don't know what outcome this may have on the fish. Maybe we can help each other by trying a few of these experiments with live bearers. I would like to know if this setup has a positive/negative influence on the fish in it.

Regards

TankMaster . . . TubMaster (lol)


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

Well the yellow pond platies that I got from a garden plant shop are from an outdoor pond. I also know someone that belongs to The San Diego Tropical Fish Society that raises Mollies in a outdoor pond. I noticed that TankMAster you have Mollies. The weather here in San Diego California is mild even in the winter time but those yellow platies adjusted to the cooler temps in my tub pond in the morning the pond is shaded and then in the afternoon to the evening it gets the sun on it. I bought a heavy duty roller that holds up to 500lbs to put under the tub pond to move it when I need to. I like the idea in moving it around my yard as the weather changes.The 2 platies that I have in it one is pregnate so it would be nice to see babies from her later in the summer time. As for cycling the tub pond I would just use filter media from an exsisting aquarium or pond and buy some bio product to speed the process. I have some of the pond water from the pond that the fish came from and I used the bio sponge from my aquarium in the house and squeezed that intio the tub. I will check the water every week and do a water change if I have to but I think the plants that I got in the tub should filter out anything bad in the water. You can buy pond plants on-line but some places charge alot for shipping. Try looking at pond shops in your area. I found waterlily bulbs at Homedepot in the garden section for $9.98. Also try craigslist in the FARM/GARDEN section as some people have pond plants for sale. I found a few and the prices were really good. I found one in my area that had the water hyacinths for 2 for $1.00. His girlfriend had to many Mosquito fish and those were free and she had to much Hyacinths in her pond and wanted to thin it out. I found mine at a garden nursery for $2.99 for 1 water hyacinth, the water iris was $9.99. They also had other water plants for sale. Some nurserys back east will not carry this stuff til the weather warms up .You can buy all the pond stuff and get ready when they start caring water plants.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

I live on the East Coast of South Africa. It's a sub tropical region where almost every house has air conditioning. This shows how hot it can get here.

On average the temperature here is like 28C - 32C or 82 F - 93 F so having an outdoor pond here is ideal!

I plan to put my mollies outdoors soon. 

Do you think my 2.5 week old molly fry will survive outdoors?

Regards

TankMAster - TubMAster


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

I don't see why they would not survive. If you have enough plants in the pond to shade them in the heat and a place for them to hide. The tub pond will need to go through a cycle like a aquarium. You would need to place them in when the temps. are stable for them not to hot or cold. I would just do like you do when you get fish from the pet store. float them in a bag for 15-30 min. to get used to the water temp. and then add water from the pond maybe 1/2C at a time over the course of an hour. That's how I put the pond platies in that I got from the Garden Nursery. You will get so many babies putting them in a pond. I bet you get more then if they were in an aquarium in your home.But what will you do with all the baby fish? You can rehome them/ sale them to the local pet shop/Use some to feed you bigger fish you may have/ Or give them away for free for someone else to maybe start a outdoor tub pond. Did you ever thing of digging a large hole to sink the tub pond in as this will make the temps. stable in the ground?


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

Yip. The ground insulates the heat but not much. Seeing as theres a huge opening at the top of the tub, It doesn't really matter if it's above or below. 

I guess the bigger the enclosure, the more fry survive. I plan to sell them but really want to experiment on this new type of hobby. 

If I can get more fry outdoors than in a glass aquarium, why don't I just leave them outdoors?

Mollies are worth alot here. . . here are the cheapest prices in my area

in USD . . . .

Juvenile - medium sized Mollies @ +/- $2.50 - Each
Small Oscars (4 inch) @ $10 - Each 
Guppies(mixed) - $2 - 2 pairs
Veil tailed betta (male or female)- $5.50
Tiger barbs - $2.50 - each
Angel Fish (mixed) - $6 - each
Small (2 inch) common Algae eater - $6 - each

All these are estimate conversions from my currency (Rand) to US dollars. It works out to similar prices found in the states and online. 

Prices of mollies should be cheaper because they are no way being selectively bred and sold here. I know of a store that sells selectively bred 2 inch mollies @ $5 each! An adult Oscar @ $40 each.....

I hope I can break the market with mollies at $1.50 each.

Kind Regards

TankMAster - TubMAster


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

So I start my project today.

Will keep you updated.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

Started my tub pond today. From what the tub said, it holds 80 liters or water

Thats about 22 Gal. 

I will post some pictures real soon. 

This is a list of what I did today.

- Got an 80 liter container
- Selected a semi shaded area to place my tub
- Laid concrete tiles to set a platform
- Made an overflow outlet on the container
- Filled water and tested overflow outlet
- Treated water with an anti-chlorine chemical that allows you to add fish without cycling

__________________________________________

List of things to do tomorrow

- add substrate 
- add filter juice
- add live plants
- get more mollies
- add the fish
- Feed . . ..
- Enjoy my new, low maintenance setup.


Regards


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm not sure about these small tubs you guys are running though. A large tub would be great, small ones are at risk to sudden temperature changes. A larger tub will maintain a temperture much better, it also gives fish room to pick what temp they want it. I filter that is mixing the water will cool the tank faster as well. Usually a large tub will stay warmer on the surface and cooler on the bottom, fish will stay out of areas that are too cold or hot. The temperature in nature is never perfect or unchanging either. 

I asked on my local forum for a article that was about outdoor tub breeding, I can't find it now. I'm hoping someone else knows where it is. I'll link it to here once I find it.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

1 of my females gave birth within an hour after being placed in this setup.

So far I have 10 fry but the female is holding back fry and is in my 10 gallon.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

I made an interesting discovery!

The female that was holding back the fry was really stressed in my 10 gallon. I put her in the tub pond and a few minutes later she popped a few fry. She is still giving birth as we speak. I have placed a plastic fruit basket wich has tiny grid holes upside down in the tub so that fry have a safe cage separating them from the mean adults. So far I have counted 2 fry but I don't know how many others are there. 

I have placed 4 of my fry born on 10/3/2010 in this setup. They are large enough not to get eaten. 

So far everything seems fine. We experienced some rainfall yesterday so the pond nutrients are likely to be high.

I find it annoying that ants fall into the water from the tree. I have made a hole that functions as an overflow outlet to vacuum out all surface debris. 

I couldn't take a picture because of the bad weather.

Regards

TM

EDIT: 

I feel like mollies spawn better in conditions that are much much cooler. Temperatures around 68-72 F are ideal! I have witnessed it today. I am not removing any more fry from the tub because I know that there will be overpopulation if i control the survivors. 

I already have over 30 fry altogether and they are in the grow out tank now. As soon as they are big enough they will have to go out in the tub. I plan to get another tub started, just in case I have a serious problem i.e. overpopulation. No more mollies for me thank you!

Planning on getting another 50L tank and putting various Cichlids in. But this is the setup for now...


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## PaperclipGirl (Feb 7, 2010)

Got my tub filled up two weeks ago, just added some small plants - I'm in a much colder region that most of you, so I will have to wait until either end of May or June to put fish in (not even sure if the plants will make it). 

I wanted a galvanized steel stock tank - but I could only afford the cheapest plastic one - still considering swaping it out because - I found a drowned RAT in my "pond" this morning! YUCKY!


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

Alrightythen. In northern VA.

I have the following to go outside this year, all either unfiltered or with milimal filtration (a big sponge filter): a 120 gallon short (4x2x2) tank to grow out and maybe breed firemouths. I have been advised to put some paradise fish in there too. And I am planning on putting a couple of ancistrus.

2 Rubbermaid stock tubs, 100 gallons each. They're each getting one or 2 species of corydoras and either a livebearer or an egg scatterer (or both) - Thinking Orange Hatchet Danios, Vietnamese white clouds, rummynose tetras, or black ruby barbs for the egg layers, Montezuma or Mayea swords or Least Killies for the Livebearers.

Alternately, I have a pair of Laetacara curviceps that could go in one tub and some Blue Gouramis for the other.

Hadn't thought of Anachris - that's going in the tubs for sure. The Firemouths are getting hornwort because I am planning on adding some pelletized lime as a first layer of substrate on that one to keep the water hard.

Planning on putting one hyacinth in each and some salvinia to do surface CO2 exchange. If they need more water movement, I can run an airline out my livingroom window and put a sponge and/or a box filter in each.

Planning on doing weekly 50% water changes straight into the garden (one of the selling points to the missus is all that good nitrogen would help her tomato plants.)

Oh, this is in a northern exposure, and only gets full sun a couple of hours a day right around the solstice.

Cory species contemplated: Scleromystax barbatus, Corydoras panda, C. ernhardti, C. paleatus, C. Oiquapoensis, C sp. CW10, C sp. C-89 (I have all of these on hand), C. trilineatus, Brochis splendens (these I would have to buy - I have a great source for high grade brochis.) Possibly something odd (big auction this weekend.)


Comments?


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## Mikaila31 (Dec 18, 2008)

There we go a 100 gal is much more like it. Be careful how many species you add if you want lots of fry to survive. With egg laying fishes I highly suggest seeding it with pond water or a daphnia and green water culture. Don't be afraid of other things living in their. Unless those ants are massive they should be fine fish food. Any insect larva will also provide good conditioning foods for parents. It is important to have the micro organisms like green water, daphnia, and other critters if you want good fry success.


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

Having talked it over with my local cory guru and an imported xiph guru, I am putting Corydoras ernhardti (12) and Xiphophorus alvarezi (thought they were mayae. My mistake.) in one, and C.oiqapoensis (4 fish) and C. sp. C89 (2m 1 f) and X. montezumae in the other. I will put a week's worth of filter squeezins in there to get the water greening.

I think the 120 is just getting the Firemouths and my mated pair of Ancistrus. (I have a buddy who gets consistent ancistrus spawns and firemouth spawns in a 90).


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

hi, I hope you guys don't mind me joining this thread 

I have a 10 gallon tank with guppies, a beta, cories, amano shrimp and nerite snails. I plan on converting it into a saltwater aquarium and I need to rehome the other fish, I was thinking:
- beta, amano shrimp and nerite snails in a large bowl (2 gallons)
- guppies, cories in an outdoor pond.

I already have a pond in the backyard. It is about 60 gallons and it is pretty big. It has been in the yard for about 3 years with no filtration. All I have been using it for is aquatic plants (hyacinths and some other one) and also I can harvest 100-200 bloodworms from it every day. I wanted to put the guppies, the cories, some pond snails and some white cloud mountain minnows in the pond for the summer. I can put in a small heater if needed. In the winter i can either bring them in the house into a rubbermaid bin or a 5 gallon tank.

The cories always spawn but their eggs always get eaten. I tried to take some eggs out once but I put them into the community tank to soon and they got eaten. If they are in the pond I think many more fry will survive. I know with cories guppies and white clouds, I will probably end up with like 5 times more fish than I put in the pond at the end of the summer. I will bring most of the fish to the LFS and put like 2m/4f guppies, a small school of white clouds and about 6 cories back into the tank. Than next year repeat the process. I will however switch the fish up a bit to open up the gene pool, but otherwise, there won't be much of a problem.

I do have a cat and a dog, so I plan on covering most of the surface with hyacinths as I usually do. I find the hyacinths let enough light pass through to let other plants grow.

I will cover the bottom of the tank with gravel and aquatic plant soil. I plan to have the plants that are in there now and some more hyacinths, some hornwort, water lily, other fast growing oxygenating plants.

What do you think?

PS I had also thought of putting in sparkling gouramis.

PPS Oh ya and I forgot to mention that I plan on colonizing the pond with lots of daphnia before adding any fish.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

bump XD


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

Awesome!!

My mollies did well in this outdoor pond and multiplied too much so I had to bring the 30+ of them indoors and squeeze them into my 10GAL - Not the most ideal of enclosures for this many fish.

I was thinking of testing this setup on my bettas to see if they will spawn or not. I have a big bucket of water with a live water plant. Just want to test it on more fish suited to warmer water.

I'm going to transfer my angelfish along with my tiger barbs into this setup and see if they live out in much cooler water. This will make room for my cichlids I plan to put in my 25L tank.

If they live it will be awesome and if they don't ...well...I hope they do make it. I plan to remove them if I notice them behaving oddly.

Keep this thread going!!



______________________________


These are the UPS and DOWNS of an UNFILTERED TUB POND

*UPS *

- Encourages breeding/spawning
- Low maintenance
- Low cost
- Saves space
- Saturates color pigment in fish 
- Grows plants faster (Balanced CO2 / O2 levels)
- Free food for fish if placed under a tree (Insects fall in)
- Ideal for Live bearers 
- Green water - Fry food
- Automatic water changes (rainfall)

*DOWNS*

- Water temperature fluctuates
- Water goes green and gets hard to clean
- Higher level of surface debris
- Fish waste stays in the tub
- You can't see the fish once the water is green


PLEASE CONSIDER THESE POINTS BEFORE STARTING YOUR UNFILTERED TUB POND!


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## asylum down (Sep 14, 2009)

Just found this thread, thought it was the perfect occasion to make my first post.

I've been making container ponds for the past 6 years, sometimes with a cheap mechanical filter, most often not. The smallest I've run was a 6 gallon ceramic bowl that had nothing more than a few snails, parrot's feather, water lettuce and water hyacinth that completely covered the water's surface within about a month of setting it up. It ran great, but it was a wide shallow bowl with an insane surface area to volume ration so on hot days (I live in Calgary, Canada - hot days can be hot, cold days are even colder) I was topping up the water at least twice. Floating plants have evolved in the least water stressed environment on Earth so they respirate as well as a commercial humidifier, I find that a mature bed of floating plants can dramatically increase water loss from straight evaporation off an uncovered container of water.

Containers:
Over the years I've used plastic pots large enough to pot a large indoor Ficus tree, moulded resin pots about half as big, up to my favourite container: a 120 gallon glazed irridescent green/blue ceramic pot that weighs nearly 300 pounds. That one sits on a concrete pad and was sealed with silicone on the inside after the first year because it was bleeding through tiny flaws in the glazing, leaving really nasty scale on the outside of the pot (R/O water would be great, but the volume you need to replace in mid July makes that completely impractical)...

Micro-Fauna/Set-up:
There is an artificially constructed wetland in a natural area on the edge of the city near my old house that treats storm water runoff through a series of gravel beds, water falls, marsh beds and slow moving dirt bottomed streams. Every spring I go to one of the marsh beds near the outflow of the wetland and stir up a bunch of crud from the muck at the bottom and fill 2 or 3 two litre pop bottles with water. There is also a healthy population of some species of very large aquatic snail there so if I can snag 5 or 6 I do that too. After de-chlorinating the water from the hose in the containers, I add a healthy amount of wetland water to kick-off the microbial life. Then in goes the plants. In the deeper pots I use cinder blocks purchased from Home Depot to create shelfs of different heights so that I can place marginal plants like grasses, peace lillies, mini-bullrush, horsetail or whatever else the garden centre has that year that's cool - the top of the pot needs to be an inch to half inch below the water. 

Plants:
I always do at least some floating plants as well, though I've learned that if you're going to buy water hyacinth, water lettuce or any other kind of leafy floating plant, save your money and buy one or two max. They spread like weeds via floating rhizomes, so even with one initial parent plant you'll likely be culling out a thick mat of them before mid summer (excellent nutrient export). I've heard of people trying to put them in a brightly lit refugium over the winter here in Calgary, though I'm not sure if it's that they need wind or a lot of UV light to maintain a healthy waxy cuticle, but water lettuce and water hyacinth almost never lasts through the 9 months of winter indoors in Calgary no matter what people try and do for them.

*I would advise for people to do their research on water lilies very thoroughly before the buy any for a container pond. Most hardy water lilies that you will find in garden centres in the spring have evolved/been bred for true ponds or lakes, with mature leaf spreads of 12-14 feet and single adult leaves which can be half as big as most people's entire container pond. There are some miniature varieties that bloom and grow more reliably in the confined space of a container, a few of the 'changeable' types (they start out one colour and over the course of a few days fade to another) that do really well in larger containers. Also keep in mind that by mid season water lilies are aphid magnets and in the confined space of a container pond they can do far more damage than they would in an actual pond, though knocking them off in to the water is an excellent food source for your fish . Hardy water lilies can be overwintered in a fridge if you're interested, you can google information on how to do it. If you have a plant that performs particularly well for you it might be worth it. Also keep in mind that hardy water lilies are a truly invasive pest that are decimating aquatic ecosystems that have no evolutionary history with them all across western and northern North America, so if you're going buy something that can survive a winter in your area please take care to not give it the chance to contribute to the probelm.

Temperature:
You can try and control temperature swings by starting your pond in the right materials - thick walled glazed ceramic containers and larger volumes help mitigate temperature swings (usually by keeping the water generally warmer night and day), down all the way to thin plastic/clear glass walled containers which will give you the wildest swings in temperature. The same things hold true for outdoor container ponds as indoor tanks - volume and stability are directly correlated, especially temperature. The colour of your container also matters. Darker containers will have hotter water in the day, lighter/reflectively glazed containers will have lower day time temperatures. Depending on what you're putting in will change which you should choose.

Fish:
As for fish - I've only ever kept feeder comet goldfish in my container ponds, and they were only purchased because there was a West Nile virus outbreak here in Calgary the first year I made one of these ponds (I wanted them to eat mosquito larvae). The logic was that a) they were 39 cents and bred to be fed to larger fish anyway so if they conked it I wouldn't feel *too* bad, and b) they are cold water fish so I didn't have to worry about heating the water at night (though I have put in heaters for some of the more exotic/tropical aquatic plants you can buy). I can say that even with no filtration, water movement or artificial heat I have had fewer mortalities - and by fewer I mean none - in my pond containers than in any of my indoor tanks. In fact it was those goldfish surviving until winter the first year that necessitated me getting back in to the aquarium hobby after a decade long hiatus. Fast forward 6 years and I now have a 90 gallon reef, a 20 gallon nano reef and a 180 gallon planted community tank. Go figure.

The goldfish started spawning in my big container pond the second year I had it.

Miscellaneous:
If you have fish and plants, I've found I've had the best results both in terms of plant growth, fish growth and health if there is at least some water artificial water movement. A small submersible pump to either move the water around the pond or push water up from the bottom towards the surface is all that's required. If you have fish and you don't want to do massive water changes, be prepared for the bottom of the container to get covered in a thick layer of sludge by the end of the year (especially if you have dirty, dirty goldfish), but I've found that if you have plants that come potted and anything else in the pond to provide surface area for colonizing bacteria, small water movement and a healthy population of big rooted floaters like water lettuce or water hyacinth that your nitrate levels will stay shockingly low - you won't be able to see your fish much once they cover the majority of the water's surface but at least you know they will still be there in the fall when you have to take it apart. I also barely ever fed my ponds, maybe tossing in some pellets once a week if I remembered and each summer my goldfish would still double in size (when I gave the last of them away they were all over 9 inches long and spawning almost weekly). For that reason I would recommend adding omnivores to container ponds like that so they have both any rotting vegetation and all the bugs that will be landing on the surface to try and lay eggs to eat. Parrot's feather is great because fish can nibble on the feathery leaves under the water while still giving you a show when they breach the water's surface and spill gracefully over the side of your container. 

Anyway, that's my two cents. Greetings


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks for the added information. It's very informative to others. I heard that you can put White Cloud minnows in a tub pond as they are from colder streams. I recently added some Black Bar endlers that a friend of mine had. She gave me 5 females. Lets see if they have fry or not.

I posted pictures of my unfiltered tub pond with a small water fountain. I added some water lettuce as my Hornswort started to melt because of the heat. Mine is on a roller so I can move it if it gets to hot. I also have a large umbrella in front of it to add more shade on really hot days. One of my pond platy jumped out and I could not find the other one so I got the endlers

. Goldfish are big waste producers and I would not use them in a tub pond. I plan on taking the fountain out in the winter time and puting a spare water clarifer with a charcoal bag inside. It has a sponge filter on the inside. This moves water around and it comes out in a nozzle from the top. In the Spring & Summer I will use the fountain.


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## asylum down (Sep 14, 2009)

I definitely agree on the not using goldfish point now. When I set up my first container ponds it was the first time I had done any form of aqua-culturing since I was 12 years old and didn't know much better. It does go to show though that setting them up successfully for fish is very possible, considering how well the 'dirtiest' of fish did in my unfiltered containers over the years, even with very few or no water changes. I think it's about setting up a balance between the plants (the floaters are the most critical) and the fish.


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## aerozeplyn (Jul 18, 2009)

*genius!*

this concept of an unfiltered pond really motivated me to start my first pond. and it will be unfiltered  I will definitely post updates on this! thank you all for your input!!! 8)


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## Ulyaoth (Jan 9, 2010)

Does anyone have any experience with lilies not growing well? I bought one from home depot over a month ago, took it out of the net that it came in and potted it, used plain garden soil(mine's pretty sandy since I live near the shore) didn't put a fertilizer in it since the site I looked at said to not put any in until about a month after planting. So it's been sitting in my pond, about half a foot down so the leaves could reach the surface of the water since I heard being submerged is bad for them, figured as more grew I'd put it to the bottom. Anyway, first few leaves came out quick, in a few days, but they turned yellow shrivelled and died quickly. 3 more have grown since then but they're growing a dark red instead of green, they're small, and seem to be getting eaten away at the ends. A few more are sprouting up but I still figured after a month it'd have grown some big leaves and I was wondering if I fertilized it maybe that would help?


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

*Water Lilies Good web-site*

I took my water lilies back to home depot that I bought before I had a chance to open it. I was able to find someone on Craigslist that had Water Hyacinth and Water Lettuce for $1.50 each or doz. for $15.

I did plant my water iris in some aquatic soil that I got at a garden shop. It's like bog mud and very heavy. A fertilizer tab would help. Watch for pond snails as they might be eating the new shoots. I did happen to find you a nice web-site on Water Lily care
http://www.watergarden.org/Aquatic-Plant-Care


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## tws (May 15, 2010)

WoW... this is an interesting thread given that i have a very similar setup in my basement flat...










however, my present problem is filtration. in this bowl i've got a variety of plants and several algae shrimp... today i received a eheim ecco canister filter 2232... but the dang thing is taller than the level of my water...

so it looks like my only recourse it to elevate the 12 gallon bowl (this bowl is from vietnam mekong delta) in order to get the siphon canister to work... i tried it at this level but no luck as the pump will not pull water lower than itself it seems... bummer.

this is going to be a magor job to elevate the bowl...



















i've got a subgravel filter with a aquaclear 20 power head... and decided to add the ecco filter to acheive cleaner water...

i'm brand new at aquariums so any ideas about this type of setup would be welcome... 

tws


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## tws (May 15, 2010)

problem solved...

operator error.

tws


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

When do you guys think I should add some tropical fish to my pond. The temperature is warming up here but it can still drop down to 60 F at night, should I wait or can I add them now?


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## Twitch (Jan 17, 2008)

I am interested in doing some kind of tub pond. What size would be appropriate for a comet goldfish or two?


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

The goldfish should not be added to a tub pond. They are big waste producers and get to big for a tub pond unless you get a big plastic or galvanized water container meant for live stock like horses at a feed store. I have a friend that went to a feed store and got a 300 gal. plastic tub for her koi but that has a really good filter on that because goldfish and koi are waste producers and need very clean water conditions. The tub ponds that are on this are small. Mine is a 15gal. unfiltered and now has endlers in it. I cleaned it out a bit and found that they had babies it.

Mosquito fish are good, White Cloud minnows like cooler water, Mollies do well and Platies do well. My tub pond dips to about 60 and a little below that at night and they are all fine. You just have to slowly get them used to the water instead of dumping them in over a long period of time. I float the bag in first with the fish until the water gets the same temp. I then add a little bit of the tub pond water about 1/2 cup at a time and let that sit for 30 min. and then add another 1/2 cup and wait 30 min. and maybe within a hour or two they are ok to add in. It is always good to move the tub pond out of hot sun on really warm days. I have mine on a plant roller made for up to 500 lbs of weight that you can get at a nursery . It also had locking wheels just in case. I posted another picture of mine although it is in the beginning of this thread. This picture the tub is sitting on wooden blocks but it now on a sturdy rolling plastic roller that hold over 500lbs. You can get these roller on-line cheap or the Nursery sales them for about $35 just make sure that it can hold the weight of the pond with water and gravel as this weighs alot. Also if you just get 2 female livebearers they will have babies in that tub pond over the summer. You will not have to get a male as they are almost always pregnate.


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

Twitch said:


> I am interested in doing some kind of tub pond. What size would be appropriate for a comet goldfish or two?


You should be able to get away with a couple of comets in a 100 gallon stock trough. But if you want to do goldfish, you really ought to go with a pond. Livebearers, smaller cyprinids like danios and small barbs, hardier tetras (I have a buddy who breeds buenos aires tetras in a stock tank every summer), Cories, Paradise fish. All depends on the size of your tub, though. I got my 100 gallon tubs for, I think, about $80 each. You can get a 300 for about $200, or a 70 for about 60. The 50s are pretty shallow, but might be good for gouramis or mosquitofish.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Well, my pond outside is set up and doing good. It has been set up for about 3 weeks now. I have some duckweed on the surface. I keep on taking some out because it always covers the top of the water. I also have three water hyacinths. I love them and my fish seem to love their roots. I also have a flowering rush. There is also a bunch of hornwort in there.The water is pretty clear.
I put all of my orange guppies in the pond. I left the leopard coloured ones in the aquarium. There are about 12-16 guppies in the pond and they will definitely breed I also put my two remaining swordtails and my two peppered cory cats. I am hoping the swords and the cories will breed and the fry will survive. The pond has no filter or pump. Here are some pics!:


Note: I took the pics before I added the hornwort, water hyacinths and took out some duckweed. I will take more pics in a few weeks when all the plants around are in full bloom


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

Your pond looks really nice. You will be surprised at all the babies you will have at the end of the season. Just an update on my little 15 gal. tub pond. The 5 endler females are all alive still and I found a few babies in the tub so they must have had a few babies. I must have counted 5 of them. It will be interesting to see how many fish are in that tub pond before fall sets in. I may take it down in the early fall. I don't think the endlers will survive the winter time in that pond.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

Mine definately wont survive the winter because i live in Canada and it gets really cold in the winter here! I will bring them inside for the winter then.


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## Ulyaoth (Jan 9, 2010)

Does anyone else have problems with tons and tons of bugs winding up in your ponds? My water lily finally starting growing at a pretty quick rate but in that time the water turned completely green, with tons of beetles and earthworms and spiders somehow falling in and drowning constantly(stupid things) Also a ton of mosquitos but I haven't decided on putting fish in yet anyway to eat them.


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

I would put some type of fish in that tub pond. Just get 1 female platy, Molly, endlers at the pet store. Mosquito fish which are free in my area from the water dept. to control mosquitos in ponds. If the female is really fat then they are pregnate and at the end of the summer you should have baby fish in that pond if it is a livebearer fish. Get it used to your water and put it in. I did not feed my 5 endlers in my pond for a couple of months and they all survived and had some babies in their and my tub pond is small about 15 gal. They will control mosquitos and any small bug that falls in. I'm not sure how earthworms would end up in your pond unless it was put into a hole in the ground. Bug and earthworms will be like dead fish in your pond and cause your water to be high in Nitrate, Ammonia, Nitrite but if you have good water plants that absorb this then you should be ok. I had a problem with hair algae growing in my pond as it got to much sun. The water was clear not green I could see to the bottom. The hair algae was growing on the sides. I rolled my tub pond in a shaded area and my plants are growing better. I have Water Hyacine and water lettuce but found out that my water fountain inside was splashing water on them so it was not growing well so I took out the water fountain. If your pond is in the ground then you might have a slight problem with bugs going in it on hot days.


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## Ulyaoth (Jan 9, 2010)

Well my pond is one of those preformed ponds, not a tub, and so it is buried in the ground. I was planning on putting my platies in but I really don't want to lose them so I'm a little hesitant to put them in, but if I get any fish specifically for it I wouldn't have any place to put them, especially goldfish(they couldn't stay in there since last winter the water in it freezed completely solid all the way to the bottom) The earthworms actually only went in there after I cleaned it out at the beginning of spring, I haven't noticed any new ones, maybe they wised up, still plenty of beetles though but I can just skim those out everyday with a net I guess. Also, I have a bunch of baby java ferns in my aquarium, think they'd grow well if I tied them up to a bunch of rocks and stuck them out there? I just hope that the lily covering the water more now will keep down on the algae some, I cleaned it out again today and it's not clear to the bottom again but before I couldn't even see the stems of the lily leaves past an inch or so below the water.


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

You can always cover it 1/2 way with a shade cloth and hold that in place with rocks. I'm guessing it is in full sun. I know that the water hyacynes are good plants to get the water qty good. Is there any way you can put an umbrella up near the pond for added shade on really hot days so the algae does not grow crazy? I put some platies in my tank into the tub pond once the water warmed up some and they were fine. I since moved then into the house tank because my friend gave me 5 female endlers. The tub pond dipped to under 60 degrees in the night and they were fine. I did not even feed them so I think they ate the bugs and algae in the pond. They do carry some pond products that control algae and is safe for fish. But if you use this you might have to feed your fish every few days. I heard that Barley of sometype controls algae in ponds. Do a Google on controling algae in ponds.

Do not put the Java fern in the pond. They are low light plants and will not do good and it will get choked by the algae.


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## fishfreak2009 (Aug 5, 2009)

I currently have a 30 gallon above ground mini pond. It has 1 Betta, a papyrus, a water hyacinth, some pothos floating, and a purple water pickerel. So far the betta has avoided all the racoons in my area by hiding under the papyrus (it is elevated in the pond and weighs about 40 pounds). The pond is painted black so it stays about 83-84 degrees during the day, dropping to about 78-80 degrees at night. He eats all the mosquitoes and looks pretty great for a 2 dollar petsmart fish. Setting up another mini-pond with some corkscrew rush and a crowntail betta soon.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

It has been a few weeks since I set up the pond and the fish are doing great! I am now seeing a lot of guppy fry. Like A LOT! Also, since I've added the hornwort and the water hyacinthes, the water has been really clearing up. I wasn't sure if my cories were okay for the longest time because they are bottom dwellers so they stayed around the bottom where I coudn't see them, but now that the water is clearer, when they swim past the sunnier spots you can see them. There has also been a huge rise in the pond snail population. Before, there were only a few that I could see, but now there are tons of tiny ones that eat the algae pretty quickly and the leaves and grass that falls into the pond too! They seem to multiply and they are very beneficial to the pond. They leave the pond plants alone too.

Also, in my 29 gallon, I have a breeder pair of kribensis. They are gorgeous but very protective of their babies and they killed a few fish. Currently they aren't breeding because I took out all possible caves. Since, I want them to breed and I also want to maintain a peaceful community, I've decided to put them in another tub pond outside. I was thinking like more of a planter style. So I would buy a plant pot and turn it into a breeding tub pond for my kribs. I would let them breed in there during the summer and in the winter I could add them back to the community since they are actually very peaceful when not breeding.


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## Ulyaoth (Jan 9, 2010)

eileen said:


> You can always cover it 1/2 way with a shade cloth and hold that in place with rocks. I'm guessing it is in full sun. I know that the water hyacynes are good plants to get the water qty good. Is there any way you can put an umbrella up near the pond for added shade on really hot days so the algae does not grow crazy? I put some platies in my tank into the tub pond once the water warmed up some and they were fine. I since moved then into the house tank because my friend gave me 5 female endlers. The tub pond dipped to under 60 degrees in the night and they were fine. I did not even feed them so I think they ate the bugs and algae in the pond. They do carry some pond products that control algae and is safe for fish. But if you use this you might have to feed your fish every few days. I heard that Barley of sometype controls algae in ponds. Do a Google on controling algae in ponds.
> 
> Do not put the Java fern in the pond. They are low light plants and will not do good and it will get choked by the algae.


Well it gets sun for a good 7-8+ hours a day at least, but towards the afternoon a trellis that's right next to it starts to shade it. I think I'll go down and see what kinds of plants I could throw in as well, I was originally going to get some rushes and things to grow in there but thought the lily alone would cover most of the surface. I just figured out the worms though. The soil I planted the lily with was from my garden, so the worms at the start only must have been from the soil and were trying to escape I guess.


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

I just thought of something have you ever thought of putting plants in the ground next to the pond. Like sometype of iris and maybe get a big rock about the size of a ball next to some plants. That would add to the look of the pond and provide some shade.If not in the ground maybe in nice pots in the back of the pond you have.l


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

I find hosta are very good plants to plant around the pond as when they get bigger, they cover the siding of the pond, so it looks more natural and their big leaves can provide a bit of shade around the edges of the pond.
In my previous pictures, you can see some small hostas around the pond, for those of you who don't know what a hosta is, here is a link:
http://gardenersgreenthumb.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/hosta.jpg
there are many variations of hostats and different colours. they look really good and you can find them at any garden store for pretty cheap.
Also, they require to be in the shade for most of the time.


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## Ulyaoth (Jan 9, 2010)

I figured I'd try to make my pond filtered. I just put a bunch of rocks in the water course thing I have, so that while the water is running down the course it flows over and past a bunch of the rocks. I figured since it has running water and is exposed to oxygen it should work, what's everyone think? Don't have a camera so can't get a picture.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

Hey guys!

I hear that this post has been getting a lot of views lately.

I also heard that this idea was published in the newsletter! How cool is that?

I haven't had a chance to see the newsletter but hopefully we got some credit for this idea.

I had to give my mollies away after I found over 50 of them + new fry upon returning home after 4 months. This was too many for me to handle. 

I was planning on getting guppies to put in my new pond. I spoke to a guy who has a lab and designs guppies!! I really got hooked on this idea of designing (selective breeding) a guppy.

I just cant believe that I made history along with eileen!

If you need help setting up or choosing a location for your unfiltered tub pond, give us a shout!

Kind Regards

TM

Edit: @ Ulyaoth

Hi there! I suggest you get coarse sand, gravel , pebbles along with the rocks. Rocks alone wont give you sufficient filtration. These mediums will have to be boiled once a month to remove all the impurities and fish waste captured.


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

It's nice that this Thread is getting noticed. I still have not posted my pictures on U-Tube yet. I recently changed out my water iris as I did not like it. I was able to get a Dwarf Pyrus plant. I got 3 plants out of it by repotting the other 2. I have them on craigslist . I also was able to pick up a Water Poppy. It sort of looks like a Lily plant but does not have as big leaves. This is a fast grower and I was able to make several plants from this. I sold a few on craigslist. The other plants will go up for sale at a auction.

I noticed that my Water Hyaciths was not doing well with my Water Lettuce so I took out my small water fountain after reading on-line that the Water Lettuce does not like water splashed on them. I went out and bought a bigger Water Hyacith to put in. Water Lettuce and Water Hyaciths are the top plants to filter out Nitrates,Nitrites, Ammonia in the water so I had to have these in my pond for this purpose. Since my tub pond is small I have to thin in out often.

Update on my 15 gal. unfiltered tub Fish:

On my thread I posted at the beginning. I lost my Pond Platies. They either jumped out or a bird got them as I found them dryed up nest to my pond. My friend gave me 5 Black Bar Endler females. I resently rehomed 3 of the 5. When I cleaned out my tub pond last weekend of excess snails hitch hikers on plants I got. I replaced 50%of the water with treated water and noticed baby fish. I fished out 12. Since I was not feeding them some might of got eaten by the Female endlers. Since cleaning the water I feed them tropical flakes in the pond once in awhile. They are in the pond to control Mosquitos and eat dead smaller bugs that land inside or algae. I wanted to keep all male endlers in a small 2.5 gal. Bowfront tank I have next to my computer. I got 5 males the other 7 were female and I rehomed them free on craigslist.

I went to my local aquarium shop and saw these new type of Royal Endlers. They only carry males. I bought 1 to put in with my 2 female Black Bar Endlers. Most of the endlers in this store are $3.99 each. I payed $6.99 for the 1 Royal Endler.It was expensive as this is a new strain. I have not been able to find anything on-line about them or pictures. If I can catch him I will take him out to take a picture sometime later. I'm hoping to get some really nice colored endlers form the Black Bar females and the Royal together. I will take the fish out during the fall and only keep a few fish inside til next spring.Rehome or give away the excess fish that they have in the pond during the summer time. 

Here are some new pictures of some plants I got: 
1- New Water poppy
2- Dwarf Pyrus


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

*Picture of my Royal Endler + Updated pond pic.*

Here are some pictures I took today. I had to fish out 7 more babies to give someone and repot some of my water poppies. I thought it was a good time to take out my Royal Ender Male to take a picture. The pond had 2 Black Bar Endlers and 1 Royal Endler Male. By the end of summer who knows how many fish will be in that pond. 

Pic.#1 Royal Endler Male
Pic.#2 Updated unfiltered tub pond with new plants and Endlers inside


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## WH2O (May 15, 2010)

For additional biological filtration you could use porous rocks such as lava rock and maybe pumice.


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## james7139 (Jul 10, 2010)

well you'd want lava rock more because pumice floats and you prob dont want it to float around.


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## Ulyaoth (Jan 9, 2010)

My mom threw some stupid algae killing tabs she got into the pond and now all the leaves of the lily are turning brown and yellow and shrivelling up and the hyacinth is dying too, is there anyway I can save them? I've changed half the water already today and yesterday but it doesn't seem any better.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

ulyaoth, you could try taking the plants out and putting them in some other water for now and keep them there for a week or so and do a lot of water changes and then maybe you can put them back into the pond. Just so they can survive, while you try to clean their water. Just a suggestion... hope it helps!


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

To much light and Nitrates causes the algae bloom. My water is clear because of the water plants I have. Not green water. It is still unfiltered. Doing 25% water change will help it not get so much algae also moving is where it does not get as much light or heat will help. If you can not move it put a umbrella near it so get some shade. Once your plants fill in you should not have a problem. I have had hair algae problems . I saved the water in another bucket and cleaned it part way. I also moved it out of the hot sun and the hair algae disappeared. I do the water changes once a week or so and having a small number of fish help. Rehome the excess baby fish. I had a bunch of babies that I found homes for. I only have 2 female Black Bar Endlers and 1 male Royal Endler in that pond now. It's only about 15 gal. so I have to watch how many fish are in there. Craigslist is a good place to rehome them or give them away for free. I hope you pond plants recover. I do not like using those products for my aquariums or pond for that matter. Not good for any snails you may have to keep it clean. I recentley added 1 Assassin snail to the pond to control the numbers of pond snails.


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## pumh (Jun 2, 2010)

i know it's a little late now as i live in Minnesota and falls is coming fast, but so for next year i was wondering do you have to put the tub in the ground? why not leave it above ground? also i know that with that much space and food etc, i am curious what do all of you do with that many fish and fry especially if you have livebearers in the tub in the winter?


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## kitten_penang (Mar 26, 2008)

re home them inside =)


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

If you look at the beginning of this thread you will see my unfiltered tub pond. It is just a 15 gal. plastic plant pot without a hole on the bottom and is above ground. It is on a rolling coaster on the bottom so that I can move it. The fish I rehome or give them away for free. I just keep 2 females and 1 male livebearer for the next spring and move them indoors to a small indoor tank. The mosquitos don't breed year round in my area only in late spring early summer. In climates like Florida or Hawaii they breed year round so you want Mosquito fish which you can leave in. Mosquito fish are ok to leave in the winter time in milder winters. I just happedn to have Endlers in mine and they will not survive the winter here even thought the weather is milder. If I had Mosquito fish or Platies I heard from a garden shop here in my area said they would be fine to leave in winter in milder climates.


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

eileen said:


> If you look at the beginning of this thread you will see my unfiltered tub pond. It is just a 15 gal. plastic plant pot without a hole on the bottom and is above ground. It is on a rolling coaster on the bottom so that I can move it. The fish I rehome or give them away for free. I just keep 2 females and 1 male livebearer for the next spring and move them indoors to a small indoor tank. The mosquitos don't breed year round in my area only in late spring early summer. In climates like Florida or Hawaii they breed year round so you want Mosquito fish which you can leave in. Mosquito fish are ok to leave in the winter time in milder winters. I just happedn to have Endlers in mine and they will not survive the winter here even thought the weather is milder. If I had Mosquito fish or Platies I heard from a garden shop here in my area said they would be fine to leave in winter in milder climates.


I was looking into Gambusia (Mosquitofish) a while ago and it seems they have a temp tolerance of 33 to 100ºF. Long as the tub has a hole in the ice and doesn't freeze solid, you can keep them outside (though Ice can crack the tub.)


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

I read that the Mosquito fish is really hardy in ponds also. I read that White cloud minnows are low temp. fish also but I do not know if freezing temps. will be ok for them. You might have to look on-line. Another really pretty fish for ponds are Paradise fish they sort of look like Betta's. Freezing temps might not be good for them and they would need to come out in the fall or winter I think.


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

eileen said:


> I read that the Mosquito fish is really hardy in ponds also. I read that White cloud minnows are low temp. fish also but I do not know if freezing temps. will be ok for them. You might have to look on-line. Another really pretty fish for ponds are Paradise fish they sort of look like Betta's. Freezing temps might not be good for them and they would need to come out in the fall or winter I think.


I'd pull Paradise Fish and White Clouds in when overnight temps started going below 50.


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## WH2O (May 15, 2010)

mosquito fish are aggressive and invasive and spend more time eating tadpoles and fish fry than eating mosquito larva. Dont recromend them.


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## tophat665 (Sep 30, 2006)

WH2O said:


> mosquito fish are aggressive and invasive and spend more time eating tadpoles and fish fry than eating mosquito larva. Dont recromend them.


Aggressive, invasive, and fun. They make a great topper for an outdoor tank with bottom dwelling cichlids. I have them in the 120 I set up outside with the firemouths on the bottom. Makes sure that only the strongest, fastest fry survive.

Just don't let them get into your local waterways. If you can't keep them, give them to someone who can or euthanize them.


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## WH2O (May 15, 2010)

they are also good for those guppy ecosystem projects as they natrually eat algea unlike guppys.

A good fish will be the rosy red or fathead minnow.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

This topic has been getting much criticism on my local forum. 

You can check out the topic here:

http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/showthread.php?t=4543

I am not against this method of keeping fish but others seem to think it's the worst setup ever....:-?

Regards

TM


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

Well, I like how my unfiltered tub pond turned out. My 2 female, 1 male ender in the pond are having a bunch of babies and they could not be happier. My water is cyrstal clear with the exception of some hair algae that I have to clean out once in awhile. I think it is because of getting to much sun and my water poppy is not growing as fast to shade the pond. The water lettuce is multiplying and the water hyachin is doing good so is my Hornwort plant. I only keep 3 adult fish in the pond at all times and rehome the excess babies once they get bigger every month. This way the pond does not get overcrowded.I have many snails in the pond also.

Make sure they are not Ramshorn snails as they will eat your pond plants. I put some Assassin snails in my pond to control some of the excess pond snails that hitch hiked on some of my pond plants.I also noticed some people had problems with putting a algae control chemical in the pond. The water plants did not do well after this type of treatment and all the snails died because of the copper in the product. Once the plants start growing and filling in the excess algae will go away. You can always get some shade cloth and use that on one side to shade it from the heat or move it if you have rollers on the bottom so that it is not in the blazing sun all day on really hot days I would keep it in a shaded area all day if it can be moved or use an umbrella to shade it if it can not be moved. 

I think a spring/ summer unfiltered pond is a good idea as the fish breed better in these conditons. I think some people just get discouraged as it takes time to balance this type of pond and if they do not see results right away they hate the pond. You can't please everyone is what I say.Some people like it and some people hate it.


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## dylan94 (Jan 15, 2009)

I decided to bring my fish inside yesterday, because I would rather take them out early than, one day it gets really cold and they all die. All of the fish are bigger and more colorful. I have sooooo many guppy fry. My cories spawned through out the summer, but I did not see any fry  I will have to attempt to breed them in the tank. All of the fish have gorgeous vibrant colors. I will definitely put them in the pond next year. However, next year I will do a few things differently. 1- I will start a daphnia culture in the pond first. 2- I will almost completely cover the top in floating plants and shade, because the water in the pond was green this year and you couldn't see the fish unless they came to the surface. 3- I may add a pump to help circulate the water. 4- I won't put in any submerged plants such as hornwort because when they die they make a big mess and they also collect a lot of dirt and detrius.


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

That's a great idea. I did have a pump that circulated the water that I put charcoal in and a pad. I took it out but might add it next year. I might go ahead and put my water fountain back in as long as I do not have water lettuce or water hyacinth inside as these do not do well if water splashes on the leaves. 

Your Cory frys might have been eaten by the guppies. I noticed that my male endler is so much brighter in color also. I will take mine out in September sometime as I notice baby fry and want them to grow a bit more. I will put the 2 female endlers in my 55 gal. community tank and the male endler with my other male endlers over the fall/winter. If the females have more babies they will be eaten by my fish in my community tank as I can not keep them all.

My water in my tub pond is clear I can see all the way to the bottom. But mine is only a 15 gal. plant tub. I do have a problem with hair algae though. I think next year I will put alot of floating water plants to keep it better shaded to avoid the hair algae so adding more plants is a good idea put they will have to be trimmed back in my small tub pond.

I noticed you live in Canada so that's a good idea to take them out early. The weather here in San Diego is mild even in the winter time. Someone at my fish club told me that I should leave a couple of fish in the pond to see if they make it over the winter or not. I know that mollies ,Swordtails or platies do well in my area as some people have outside ponds that have them and do not take them out during the fall/winter time. Maybe I could put some of my Bumblebee platy babies inside that don't make the cut as I'm only keeping the ones with the masked black heads and my Orca colored Blk. with slight white marking.

Here's a picture of my Bumblebee platies and my Orca fry. Oh I got more fry from my platies yesterday most were solid yellow into the 55. gal. tank for food but I found 2 Orca colored ones.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

PLEASE RESIZE IMAGES BEFORE POSTING. THIS THREAD IS BECOMING PIC HEAVY.

So spring is around the corner where I live and I'm picking up my 1000L flowbin tomorrow. Planning to put my hybrid Orandas and Comets in and some other fish. 

(I think we should start a list of fish capable of living and breeding in these conditions.) 

I'm thinking about adding some fancy tailed guppies to permanently breed in there. I just might add Platies instead as they breed more willingly.

Getting some water hycynth? if that is the correct spelling. It will provide much needed hiding spots for goldfish and other fry. If I am lucky enough, both my female Orandas will spawn. I do want more goldfish for this setup though. 1000L with 6, 2,5inch goldfish.....very spacey... I will probably get more when I see it fitting.

I'm just concerned about guppies losing their strain and reverting to wild colors. Platies will keep their strain for a long time whereas mollies will revert to black. 

Are there other fish besides livebearers that could live happily in these setups?


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## CaliforniaFishkeeper (Jun 29, 2010)

TankMAster said:


> PLEASE RESIZE IMAGES BEFORE POSTING. THIS THREAD IS BECOMING PIC HEAVY.
> 
> So spring is around the corner where I live and I'm picking up my 1000L flowbin tomorrow. Planning to put my hybrid Orandas and Comets in and some other fish.
> 
> ...


I would also like to know what fish can live in the setup... Hell, I've been inspired by this topic to attempt one meself.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

It's nice to see my thread being well used. 

I forgot that I experimented with some species a few months ago :

(** indicates to use caution)(+ indicates trusted species)

Tiger Barbs+**
Angelfish**
Blue Gourami +
Rosy Barbs + **
Siamese Fighting Fish +
Guppies +
Mollies +
Comets/Goldfish +
Convict Cichlids**
Platy + 
Sword Tail +
Long Fin Zebra Danio + **
Zebra Danio +**
Black Widow tetra +** 
Koi +

*Species Assumed to adapt during Summer and Spring without a heater.*

African Cichlids**
Plecostomus** / Ancistrus**/ Corydoras**

More to follow in coming months. Be on the look out for an update.



*










(Kindly resize or remove large images in this thread)*


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## eileen (Feb 24, 2009)

*Plastic tubs at Lowe's*

Dated: 8/17/10 - I just got back from Lowe's Hardware store. All the large plastic tubs with handles 20 gal. were $7.49 each and the smaller 12 gal. were about $4 something. These were recommended by my Tropical fish magazine awhile back as good tubs to use for the unfiltered tub pond. I got one to use while cleaning mine since they were cheap. 


I may switch out my endlers soon to put my Bumblebee Platies in while the weather is still good. I heard that the platies or mollies do well during the fall/winter in my area in Southern California.


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## TankMAster (Oct 16, 2009)

eileen said:


> Dated: 8/17/10 - I just got back from Lowe's Hardware store. All the large plastic tubs with handles 20 gal. were $7.49 each and the smaller 12 gal. were about $4 something. These were recommended by my Tropical fish magazine awhile back as good tubs to use for the unfiltered tub pond. I got one to use while cleaning mine since they were cheap.
> 
> 
> I may switch out my endlers soon to put my Bumblebee Platies in while the weather is still good. I heard that the platies or mollies do well during the fall/winter in my area in Southern California.


I have stated some posts back that Mollies fair better in cooler temperatures and not the temperatures we think that are okay. 20'C is perfect, especially if you want them to breed.:-D

Regards
TM


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## crystos (Jun 9, 2012)

wow glad i found this thread. I am starting a tub pond myself. i live in the caribbean and the pod will be unfiltered due to lack of electrical outlets. I found a 30 gallon tub in my shed and just decided to try. pics will follow


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## crystos (Jun 9, 2012)

my tub! washed and ready to be almost halfway buried. any suggestions?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

That's a pretty neat idea. Just make sure the tub is clean (has never had any harmful chemicals in it). Since it will be unfiltered, you should stuff it with live plants. Floating plants will be best since they will also help keep the algae down.


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## crystos (Jun 9, 2012)

yea.. on my island tho. aquatic plants arent available. I want to maybe use land plants in pots. maybe taro,pothos...etc


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm not too sure how land plants in pots will go. If just the roots are in the water that might work, but the leaves shouldn't be under water. Floating plants provide much more than algae control. They shield the pond from predators like neighborhood cats. Maybe you have some plants in your local waterways that could be used.


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