# New 70 Litre Aquarium



## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Hi All,

I'm new to the site and I'm hoping you can help.

Here is my Aquarium setup:

1x 70 Litre Tank
1x Aquis 500 External Canister
1x Cup Aqua One ChemiCarb (In Aquis 500)
1x Cup Aqua One Aqua One ChemiZee (In Aquis 500)
3x Tiger Barbs
1x Aqua One SR Air Pump (SR 2500)

Have had the Tiger Barbs now for a week and their doing really well. Prior to getting the fish, had left it cycling for over 6 weeks. Had used Nutrafin Cycle (Biological Aquarium Supplement) to get the cycle going.

These were the reading of the Aquarium before adding the fish:
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite:0
Ph: 7 (Neutral)
KH: 125.3
GH: 125.3
Ammonia: 0

A week later after adding the fish, here are the readings:

Nitrate: Between 0 and 5 ppm (Had peaked to 5, but appears to be dropping)
Nitrite: 0
Ph: 7
Kh: - (API drop fails to get reading, have used AMMO Lock)
Gh: - (API drop fails to get reading, have used AMMO Lock)
Ammonia: 8 ppm ( It steadily rose to this reading)

will chemcarb and chemzee, interfere with the cycling ??? what are your opinions ??? Is it indeed cycling and if it is ??? How far off is till I can add more fish ???

Being a 70 Litre tank, how many more fish can i add ??? Thinking of adding 4 more barbs and maybe 6 Neon Tetras and maybe a few Black Tetra.

Can this tank support having all these fish ???

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Lock


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

Alright first off with the ammonia levels in the tank, start doing water changes, you are cycling most likely because of the ChemiZee which as far as I can find trys to and removes ammonia from the water, which means it hinders the cycling process, and you are seeing high levels of ammonia most likely because the ChemiZee is now saturated and can absorb no more. Its best to just go with out unless you plan on continuing to buy ChemiZee in quantities enough to keep ammonia out of your tank which will be some money.

The ChemiCarb is just an activated carbon, which you can use and it won't really affect the cycle but most people don't use unless their tap water is contaminated with something. As for tank size its about a 18.5 gallon tank so beyond the additional barbs you are starting to crowd it, but of course you should not add anymore fish until you have gone through this cycle. Just keep an eye with your test kit to figure out when its done. You can try and use some more cycle to see if that will speed up the cycle but only your test kit will tell.

Theres no easy way around it, your cycle was probably screwed up by the use of the ChemiZee so I would just ditch that stuff and write off your new cycle to a good life lesson.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

I forgot to add, welcome to TFK we like being used here so feel free to ask if you got anymore question


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for all you info, greatly appreciated, for a newbie like me.... :-D

So how often should i do the water changes ??? And how much ??? How many fish can I add ??? Have used an online calculator and it said I could add to 25 fish...


You're help has been great, thanks...


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

Hello and welcome to TFK :-D For water changes while you are going through the cycling process you need to do water changes any time that the ammonia or nitrites get above .25 ppm. This may mean that you will bw doing water changes daily until these numbers get in check. At the levels that your ammonia is reading right now I would do a 50% water change. Once your tank has cycled you will want to do weekly water changes of 30 to 50%. 

With the size tank that you have right now you can do a group of tiger barbs probably 7 to 8. You will not have room to add any more fish that are top or mid level fish. What is the hardness and ph of your water? This information can usually be found online from your local water people. If you can not find the information online than you can try calling them. Depending on what your water hardness is and what the ph is you can do some type of substrate fish.

Online calculators are not always accurate, some people wil use aqadvisor to run numbers, I do this sometimes myself, but still this is not 100% accurate. Definitly in your size tank you will not be able to keep 25 fish. It may be possible if you did a dwarf species, but definitly not with the tiger barbs.

Also what type of testing kit are you using to test your water parameters with?


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Hi and thanks for your reply, you've all been really helpful. 

The PH is usually around the 6.5 and I raise it to 7 (Neutral) . The GH is 125.3 and the KH is 107.4 and I use the API Drop tests for all tests carried out on the aquarium water. 

What type of fish go well with tiger barbs ??? What do you recommend ???

The assistance here is greatly appreciated, thanks again.


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

Any particular reason that you are raising the ph in the tank? Also how are you raising the ph? Tiger Barb will actually be fine in a ph of 6.5. For substrate fish you could do a group of corys, a whiptail catfish may work also, what is the length of your tank? You can find out more information on different types of fish in the tropical fish profiles section found at the top of the page second tab from the left. Or by clicking on the shaded name when a common or scientific name is used. The profiles section will give you information about the needs of a fish, from if they need to be kept in groups, temperment, minimum requirement on tank size and other information.


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

The tank dimensions are :

Length = 610 mm (2 feet)
Width = 310 mm (1 foot)
Height = 380 mm (1 foot, 3 inches)

Thinking of putitng neon tetras or maybe Black Widow Tetra, not sure yet. Waiting for the tank to cycle.


Thanks again...


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for the assistance everyone, has been great.

Have taken the Chemizee out as suggested and when i restarted the filter, a biological bloom occurred. And 12 hours later, the ammonia had dropped from 8 ppm to 4 ppm. Also fed the tiger barbs, all eat but one, and he also appeared a bit faint compared to the others (Like when they go to sleep). Should this be a concern or is it nothing to worry about ??? 

Once the ammonia drops to zero, does it mean I can add two more barbs ??? Should the group of barbs be all Tiger barbs or is it best to add different types of barbs.

Once again thanks for all the advice and look forward to any feedback.


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## zof (Apr 23, 2010)

Do your water changes, a change in color in mood in fish during cycling can probably be related to the high level of toxic material, frequent water changes are the only way to get through a fish in cycle.

Once both ammonia and nitrites are 0 you can add a few more fish, but not till then.


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

zof said:


> Do your water changes, a change in color in mood in fish during cycling can probably be related to the high level of toxic material, frequent water changes are the only way to get through a fish in cycle.
> 
> Once both ammonia and nitrites are 0 you can add a few more fish, but not till then.



Thanks for your info, will maintain the water changes. Just curious, when i change the water, does it have to be cold water ??? or can I use warm water, to maintain the temperature, so the fish don't go through a massive temperature drop ???

Thanks for your help, greatly appreciated


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## BarbH (May 23, 2011)

When changing out the water, the new water that you add to the tank you want to be close to the same temp as that in the tank. A little bit cooler is okay, the cooler water actually simulates what happens in rivers and lakes when it rains. The new water does not need to be cold, I would just make sure it is either the same temp or a little bit cooler than what is in the tank. With new water cooler is better than warmer IMO.


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, its been really helpful.

The ammonia has now dropped down to 1.0 ppm, which is really good. Just have one question , when out for a few hours and all the lights where off. Now the tiger barbs are hiding in the ornaments and have a faint coat (which usually symbolizes sleep time). Anything to be concerned about ??? Notice one tiger barb was going back and forth, is this a sign of stress or is it nothing to worry about ???

Thanks again, the help has been great


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

If the tank is in relative darkness, meaning the room is also dark, the fish will naturally think it is night and go into their sleep mode. Many species pale in colour and pattern. A regular lighting period is best for all fish. A simple lamp timer for the tank light is the best way to achieve this, but make sure the tank light is on during "daylight" in the room, so when th tank light is off it is dark in the room. There is some flexibility in this, but in general day/night should correspond to our day/night. And the room should have some ambient light when the tank light comes on and goes off, to avoid shocking the fish which is highly stressful.

Going back to your earlier question on fish for this tank: from your dimensions you have a 20g tall as we call it. With Tiger Barb, I would not have other upper fish. As Barb mentioned earlier, some substrate fish are fine, and she gave some examples. But if you read the profile of the TB [click the shaded name to see the profile] you will note it recommends a group of 8 minimum with no other upper fish unless the tank is over 30 gallons. The profile info explains why, so I won't repeat.

Byron.


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Byron said:


> If the tank is in relative darkness, meaning the room is also dark, the fish will naturally think it is night and go into their sleep mode. Many species pale in colour and pattern. A regular lighting period is best for all fish. A simple lamp timer for the tank light is the best way to achieve this, but make sure the tank light is on during "daylight" in the room, so when th tank light is off it is dark in the room. There is some flexibility in this, but in general day/night should correspond to our day/night. And the room should have some ambient light when the tank light comes on and goes off, to avoid shocking the fish which is highly stressful.
> 
> Going back to your earlier question on fish for this tank: from your dimensions you have a 20g tall as we call it. With Tiger Barb, I would not have other upper fish. As Barb mentioned earlier, some substrate fish are fine, and she gave some examples. But if you read the profile of the TB [click the shaded name to see the profile] you will note it recommends a group of 8 minimum with no other upper fish unless the tank is over 30 gallons. The profile info explains why, so I won't repeat.
> 
> Byron.



Thanks for your advice, it's greatly appreciated. Have good news, the ammonia has now dropped to .25, which is a good result. Looking forward to adding new barbs soon 

Thanks allot for your assistance everyone, its been a great help


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Hi All, 

Do I have anything to be concerned about ? Have three fish, 2 x Tiger Barbs and one T- Barb ( I think ???  The T-barb is really fin nipping one of the Tiger barbs, is really giving it to it. Is it something to be concerned about or is it just normal behavior ???? 


Thanks again for your help, it's been great


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

locksmith said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Do I have anything to be concerned about ? Have three fish, 2 x Tiger Barbs and one T- Barb ( I think ???  The T-barb is really fin nipping one of the Tiger barbs, is really giving it to it. Is it something to be concerned about or is it just normal behavior ????
> 
> ...


These fish are shoaling fish, meaning they live in large groups naturally. In an aquarium, they must be in a group. Some species can manage with 5-6 minimum, others need more. When this "group" is not provided, and especially in an enclosed environment, most fish become stressed. What they "expect" by their instincts is not present. They are few ways to lash out, and aggression is the most common. Which brings me to the barbs.

Some fish are normally peaceful, others are mildly aggressive. All barbs fall into the latter by nature, though to differing degrees. Tiger Barb are one of the most aggressive, and should never be kept in groups less than 8 fish. And this requires a 30g tank. No other species should be present, although substrate fish manage. If the tank is larger than 30g, then other fish can be added, but the species has to be carefully selected in order to manage with the natural aggression of the TB.

The T-Barb is_ Puntius laterstriga_ and when young is a shoaling fish; as they mature they prefer to go their own way. This fish needs space, a 3-foot tank is minimum. Smaller tanks also bring out that aggressiveness I mentioned earlier. This species is not yet in our profiles, but the TB is, you can click on the shaded name above to see its profile which will explain this a bit more.

Byron.


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Byron said:


> These fish are shoaling fish, meaning they live in large groups naturally. In an aquarium, they must be in a group. Some species can manage with 5-6 minimum, others need more. When this "group" is not provided, and especially in an enclosed environment, most fish become stressed. What they "expect" by their instincts is not present. They are few ways to lash out, and aggression is the most common. Which brings me to the barbs.
> 
> Some fish are normally peaceful, others are mildly aggressive. All barbs fall into the latter by nature, though to differing degrees. Tiger Barb are one of the most aggressive, and should never be kept in groups less than 8 fish. And this requires a 30g tank. No other species should be present, although substrate fish manage. If the tank is larger than 30g, then other fish can be added, but the species has to be carefully selected in order to manage with the natural aggression of the TB.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. The problem I have, is when I originally bought the fish from the shop, I specifically asked for 3 Tiger Barbs. Didn't realize one was different till i got home. What should I do ??? Should I somehow return the T Barb ??? Or should I keep it ??? How will the T Barb fit with a group of Tiger Barbs ??? And should I have at least 6 Tiger Barbs or can I mix then with maybe Cherry Barb, Rosy Barb or maybe Albino Barbs. What do you think ???


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

locksmith said:


> Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. The problem I have, is when I originally bought the fish from the shop, I specifically asked for 3 Tiger Barbs. Didn't realize one was different till i got home. What should I do ??? Should I somehow return the T Barb ??? Or should I keep it ??? How will the T Barb fit with a group of Tiger Barbs ??? And should I have at least 6 Tiger Barbs or can I mix then with maybe Cherry Barb, Rosy Barb or maybe Albino Barbs. What do you think ???


The store should allow you to return the T-Barb for more Tiger Barb under those circumstances.

If your tank is 30 gallons or under, I would not have anything other than the Tigers, in a group of 8 (in 30g, fewer if smaller tank). If you're over 30g in tank size, 8 TB and some other robust fish will work. Albino are probably Tiger Barb alnbino form, so same fish and will work together. Rosy Barb should manage, but remember they need lower temperatures (72F max, which is the lowest for Tigers). Cherry Barb would also be at their lowest end of the range. Check the info in the profiles, click the shaded names.


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Byron said:


> The store should allow you to return the T-Barb for more Tiger Barb under those circumstances.
> 
> If your tank is 30 gallons or under, I would not have anything other than the Tigers, in a group of 8 (in 30g, fewer if smaller tank). If you're over 30g in tank size, 8 TB and some other robust fish will work. Albino are probably Tiger Barb alnbino form, so same fish and will work together. Rosy Barb should manage, but remember they need lower temperatures (72F max, which is the lowest for Tigers). Cherry Barb would also be at their lowest end of the range. Check the info in the profiles, click the shaded names.



Thanks for that. Went to the store today and they were happy to exchange it for a Tiger Barb. turned out that the fish that they gave by mistake was a Black Ruby Barb. Have added 2 Albino barbs now as well. So now i have 3 Tiger Barbs and 2 Albino Tiger Barbs. Will slowly add more fish over time, would mind adding a few Green Moss barbs. 

See how we go


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

locksmith said:


> Thanks for that. Went to the store today and they were happy to exchange it for a Tiger Barb. turned out that the fish that they gave by mistake was a Black Ruby Barb. Have added 2 Albino barbs now as well. So now i have 3 Tiger Barbs and 2 Albino Tiger Barbs. Will slowly add more fish over time, would mind adding a few Green Moss barbs.
> 
> See how we go



Had fish death in the last 23 hours and I was doing so well  Lost 2 Albino barbs and 2 Tiger barbs  Only have one left. What should i do now ??? 

The water parameters are as follows: 

Nitrate: 10 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
PH: 6.5
KH: 5 drops (89.5)
GH: 10 drops (179)
Ammonia: 1.0 ppm

How often should I do water changes ??? Once a day only or can I do them more than once a day ??? Need help  Have put the ChemCarb in filter to remove the medicine that I used to try and save the fish.

Your help would be greatly appreciated, as per usual LOL


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

This is likely due to the ammonia. Even if fish survive initially, high levels of ammonia or nitrite during cycling will damage the fish internally, and they frequently succumb later. I see you are back up to 1ppm ammonia which is not good.

Are there live plants in this tank?

Byron.


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## locksmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Byron said:


> This is likely due to the ammonia. Even if fish survive initially, high levels of ammonia or nitrite during cycling will damage the fish internally, and they frequently succumb later. I see you are back up to 1ppm ammonia which is not good.
> 
> Are there live plants in this tank?
> 
> Byron.


No live plants. But looks like the tank has now cycled, Ammonia is 0 and so is Nitrites. When is it ok to introduce new fish ??? Can I do it now ??? Have three Tiger Barbs @ the moment. At what pace do you add new fish ??? Over what period of time ??? Whats the time required between each time you add fish ???

Thanks again everyone for your advice, been great. I find Aquarium Shops to money driven and they don't give the correct advice.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

locksmith said:


> No live plants. But looks like the tank has now cycled, Ammonia is 0 and so is Nitrites. When is it ok to introduce new fish ??? Can I do it now ??? Have three Tiger Barbs @ the moment. At what pace do you add new fish ??? Over what period of time ??? Whats the time required between each time you add fish ???
> 
> Thanks again everyone for your advice, been great. I find Aquarium Shops to money driven and they don't give the correct advice.


Once an aquarium is cycled, it means the nitrifying bacteria are present at a level to handle the ammonia being produced at that point. Bacteria will always be at this level, to handle the available ammonia (and subsequent nitrite obviously). If the ammonia decreases, the bacteria go into a sort of suspended state or die off, and if it increases they will multiply which takes up to 20 hours. Depending upon the tank volume, fish must be added slowly so as to not suddenly increase the ammonia. And this is solely dependent upon the tank size, type of fish, water parameters and if live plants are present which they are not in this case. You can read about this in detail here: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/

You have a 70 litre (roughly 20 gallon) tank, so I would add fish at maybe 3 at one time in the case of barbs. With tiger barb, I would not have other fish in this tank. As their profile mentions [click the shaded name], this species is prone to aggressive nipping, and a group of 8 is recommended minimum to keep the aggression within the group, and that should be in a 30g tank. In a 20g it will be a risk as the space is less than what the fish really should have.

Byron.


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