# Fish Mysteriously Dying... 20L



## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

Ok so as of the as 2-3 days I've had 1 fish die on me overnight. At first it was a couple guppies - thought "ehhh its just a guppy" not the first time its happened - bad batches or something in their store tank ya? Then today I awoke to see that my dwarf groumi was dead. This could be another "ehhh bad batch" deal since they werent the best gouramis in the world, but im starting to worry. My bumble bee platy didnt look so well this morning and when i went home for lunch she had disappeared =( I fear the worst.

Anyways had done readings last night, everything is fine, little bit of ammonia which i thought might be to mucking up the substrate a few hours before the test. Gonna do a cleaning/water change this afternoon see if that gets rid of anything.

I had recently added some guppies and the dwarf, though this sudden fish death syndrome seems to be striking some of my older fish not just new. Tanks been established for well over 2 months now - previously upgraded from a 5 - used the same substrate and water to kick start my new tank.

I have a AC70 on it, plenty fake plant hiding places, no new decorations.

Is this a parasite? I've already dropped in some aqua safe and melafix gonna maybe try the jungle tabs. =\ is it possible its the ammonia and its spiking at night or something?

stock:

platies
guppies
cory
golden ram
neon tetra
danios
balloon molly


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Ongaku said:


> Ok so as of the as 2-3 days I've had 1 fish die on me overnight. At first it was a couple guppies - thought "ehhh its just a guppy" not the first time its happened - bad batches or something in their store tank ya? Then today I awoke to see that my dwarf groumi was dead. This could be another "ehhh bad batch" deal since they werent the best gouramis in the world, but im starting to worry. My bumble bee platy didnt look so well this morning and when i went home for lunch she had disappeared =( I fear the worst.
> 
> Anyways had done readings last night, everything is fine, little bit of ammonia which i thought might be to mucking up the substrate a few hours before the test. Gonna do a cleaning/water change this afternoon see if that gets rid of anything.
> 
> ...


Sounds way overstocked. That could be the root of the problems you're having. You need to be doing daily water changes of 50% until you figure it out.


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

marshallsea said:


> Sounds way overstocked. That could be the root of the problems you're having.


I have less than 20 fish most less an inch or smaller, a 20 L should be fine with this and i havent had issues in the past couple of months? Something a little more constructive would be appreciated.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Ongaku said:


> I have less than 20 fish most less an inch or smaller, a 20 L should be fine with this and i havent had issues in the past couple of months? Something a little more constructive would be appreciated.


A 20l- as in 5 gallons?


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## lorax84 (Nov 3, 2010)

Ongaku said:


> I have less than 20 fish most less an inch or smaller, a 20 L should be fine with this and i havent had issues in the past couple of months? Something a little more constructive would be appreciated.


If you aren't going to listen to the advice it will not help you. Your tank is way overstocked. That number of fish should be in a 60L or larger tank. You should see zero ammonia in an established tank, and stirring up the substrate would not add a noticeable amount of ammonia to the tank.. You can treat the tank with whatever you would like but as long as you keep the tank overstock you will continue to lose fish.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Ongaku said:


> I have less than 20 fish most less an inch or smaller, a 20 L should be fine with this and i havent had issues in the past couple of months? Something a little more constructive would be appreciated.


Go to aqadvisor.com and put your info into their stocking calculator. Post your %'s on this thread.You'll see that its no mystery your fish are dying.


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

marshallsea said:


> Go to aqadvisor.com and put your info into their stocking calculator. Post your %'s on this thread.You'll see that its no mystery your fish are dying.



You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is *177%*.
Recommended water change schedule: *40%* per week.
*Your aquarium stocking level is 92%*. [Generate Image]


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

And 20L generally stands for 20 (Gal) Long


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Where I'm from L stands for liters, not long. Especially if you put a number infront of it. Take into consideration all the metric system users on here. :rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

lorax84 said:


> If you aren't going to listen to the advice it will not help you. Your tank is way overstocked. That number of fish should be in a 60L or larger tank. You should see zero ammonia in an established tank, and stirring up the substrate would not add a noticeable amount of ammonia to the tank.. You can treat the tank with whatever you would like but as long as you keep the tank overstock you will continue to lose fish.


You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is *177%*.
Recommended water change schedule: *40%* per week.
*Your aquarium stocking level is 92%*. [Generate Image]


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## lorax84 (Nov 3, 2010)

Ongaku said:


> And 20L generally stands for 20 (Gal) Long


This forum has a lot of European members, unless you specify that it is a 20long people will assume you mean 20 litres. Putting that aside I would still say you probably started a mini cycle in your tank. Adding a lot of fish at once to a tank that is not matured (running <6 mo) can easily do that. Without an exact list of fish in the tank I really can't tell you anything else.


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

lorax84 said:


> This forum has a lot of European members, unless you specify that it is a 20long people will assume you mean 20 litres. Putting that aside I would still say you probably started a mini cycle in your tank. Adding a lot of fish at once to a tank that is not matured (running <6 mo) can easily do that. Without an exact list of fish in the tank I really can't tell you anything else.


 I gave an exact list in the main post, I can give you the numbers too if you would like.

3 Platy
3 Neon Tetra
1 Albino Cory
4 Guppy
1 Golden Ram
1 Balloon Molly
4 Glo Fish


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## lorax84 (Nov 3, 2010)

While I would agree your tank is not inherently overstocked, it is definitely overstocked for being only 2 mo old. When starting a new tank you have to slowly increase the stock and let you tank build up the bacteria to handle all the waste produced by the fish. If you try and dump 5 new fish in after a month or two you will experience what you are seeing, a mini cycle. You will get a slight bump in ammonia which can be detrimental to sensitive fish. My suggestion is to change 20% of your water every day until the ammonia disappears.

Having addressed that I would also like to point out that the fish you have in your tank will not do well long term. Danios are cold water fish, mollys and platies do well in hard water and cories, neons and rams do best in soft water. Cories and neons also do better in groups of 5 or more.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

While on that site did you notice temp requirements for your range of fish? This may be part of your prob. What temp is your tank?


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## Stormfish (Apr 30, 2012)

marshallsea said:


> Go to aqadvisor.com and put your info into their stocking calculator. Post your %'s on this thread.You'll see that its no mystery your fish are dying.


I had no idea about this stock calculator. I used it. Awesome! 

/threadjack


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Stormfish said:


> I had no idea about this stock calculator. I used it. Awesome!
> 
> /threadjack


I love it. It allows me to plan ahead without costing money or harming fish.


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## Stormfish (Apr 30, 2012)

marshallsea said:


> I love it. It allows me to plan ahead without costing money or harming fish.


I already knew my tank was overstocked by a few fish, and it confirmed it. But my filters are above capacity (125%), which is why I'm running two filters to begin with. It also recommended a 54% water change weekly, which I'm already doing as well. Just nice to see I'm doing it right! I just wish it could account for things like live plants for balancing out the tank.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Stormfish said:


> I already knew my tank was overstocked by a few fish, and it confirmed it. But my filters are above capacity (125%), which is why I'm running two filters to begin with. It also recommended a 54% water change weekly, which I'm already doing as well. Just nice to see I'm doing it right! I just wish it could account for things like live plants for balancing out the tank.


 I agree, its not 100% but it works as a rough guide. More people (especially new boots like me) should use it.


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## maxw47 (Jan 22, 2012)

I just entered your stock list in a 5.5 gallon aquarium (A little bigger than 20L) and a filter for a ten gallon tank. Here are the results(I think you entered your tank as a twenty long)-
Warning: Platy is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 2 inches.
Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Platy, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
Warning: Neon Tetra is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 1.5 inches.
Warning: Albino Cory is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 2.5 inches.
Warning: Guppy is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 2 inches.
Warning: Golden Ram is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 2 inches.
Warning: Zebra Danio is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 2 inches.
Warning: At least 5 x Neon Tetra are recommended in a group.

Warning: At least 4 x Albino Cory are recommended in a group.

Warning: At least 5 x Zebra Danio are recommended in a group.


Warning: Water temperature requirements are not fully compatible between all selected species.
=> 18 - 25C: Platy
=> 20 - 28C: Neon Tetra
=> 22 - 27C: Albino Cory
=> 18 - 28C: Guppy
=> 26 - 30C: Golden Ram
=> 18 - 24C: Zebra Danio
[Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 6 - 7.
Recommended hardness range: 5 - 12 dH.


Warning: You NEED to add more aquarium filtration capacity!!!

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 37%.
Recommended water change schedule: 92% per week. (You might want to split this water change schedule to two separate 71% per week)
Your aquarium stocking level is 271%.
Your tank is seriously overstocked. Unless this setup is temporary, you should consider a larger tank. [Generate Image]


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

maxw47 said:


> I just entered your stock list in a 5.5 gallon aquarium (A little bigger than 20L) and a filter for a ten gallon tank. Here are the results(I think you entered your tank as a twenty long)-
> Warning: Platy is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 2 inches.
> Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Platy, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
> Warning: Neon Tetra is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 1.5 inches.
> ...


I believe he has a 20g, not a 5 g. Stocking wise he'd probably be alright in a planted established tank. But the fish incompatibility is and will be a problem for the fish and him. The fish may die off until the tank is right for the remaining fish.


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## maxw47 (Jan 22, 2012)

Oh, oops, I thought he was talking about 20 liters! Ya, I would say needs more cories, neons, and guppies. But then bioload would probably be too much.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

maxw47 said:


> Oh, oops, I thought he was talking about 20 liters! Ya, I would say needs more cories, neons, and guppies. But then bioload would probably be too much.


Yes it was confusing.


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## cwgrl42 (Feb 9, 2012)

What was the temp of your water when your fish started dying? If you are up here in the north, keeping your fish tank up against an outside wall sometimes affects the temp. Did they have any signs of Ich? What eventually happened to your tank? It looks like it has been a while.....


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

marshallsea said:


> I believe he has a 20g, not a 5 g. Stocking wise he'd probably be alright in a planted established tank. But the fish incompatibility is and will be a problem for the fish and him. The fish may die off until the tank is right for the remaining fish.


yeh its a 20g Long. I gotta check my temp when i get home but it usually stays at 75-80ish but i live in hawaii so i cant do much when the weather takes a turn for the warmer, but right now its not hot. tanks not in direct light and its in a well vented room.

update: platy died last night. I noticed that she was a bit round/big but not pine coning. I had a guppy maybe 6 days ago go dropsy on me, but it was a guppy from a group of 5 that my friend had rescued from an ant infested dorm desk jar - she couldnt keep them cause her large gold fish tried to eat them. I only kept the one, rest went to the store. Now im wondering if i have a bacterial infection of some kind. The other fish were round also but not pineconing and they were females - cept the grouram -i so i thought it was just eggs.

last night did a gravel vac and 50% water change, did my normal melafix and aquasafe. Did jungle tabs. thinking bout getting antibiotics, not sure. I'll see how the other fish are faring in the next 24-72 hours


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## Molinious (Jan 12, 2012)

marshallsea said:


> Go to aqadvisor.com and put your info into their stocking calculator. Post your %'s on this thread.You'll see that its no mystery your fish are dying.


Cheers for the link, with the last couple of fish iv got on order will be at 99%. Filtration at 99% also tho, but its heavily planted so should be ok and the perameters are all gooood! Only need to do a 37% weekly water change aswell, i already do 40%. Again thanks for that 1


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Molinious said:


> Cheers for the link, with the last couple of fish iv got on order will be at 99%. Filtration at 99% also tho, but its heavily planted so should be ok and the perameters are all gooood! Only need to do a 37% weekly water change aswell, i already do 40%. Again thanks for that 1


You're welcome.


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

Again another dead guppy, this one male, not bloated. My ram is looking pudge, but not pine coning, hope he just gorged himeself on flakes before the others could get to them :rays::

gotta check out antibiotics, no signs of fungal, =(

temp: 79 atm coming off high afternoon

water parameters are all fine, nitrite is below .5 =\


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Ongaku said:


> Again another dead guppy, this one male, not bloated. My ram is looking pudge, but not pine coning, hope he just gorged himeself on flakes before the others could get to them :rays::
> 
> gotta check out antibiotics, no signs of fungal, =(
> 
> temp: 79 atm coming off high afternoon


Are you sure you have a disease? It could be an unstable tank. All those meds might kill your fish. Meds and chemicals are very hard on fish.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Ongaku said:


> Again another dead guppy, this one male, not bloated. My ram is looking pudge, but not pine coning, hope he just gorged himeself on flakes before the others could get to them :rays::
> 
> gotta check out antibiotics, no signs of fungal, =(
> 
> ...


Showing nitrites is not fine. Your tank has not cycled completely. Nitrites are as damaging to your fish as ammonia.


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

marshallsea said:


> Showing nitrites is not fine. Your tank has not cycled completely. Nitrites are as damaging to your fish as ammonia.


 then ill do another 50% water change and hold off on the meds =\


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Ongaku said:


> then ill do another 50% water change and hold off on the meds =\


I've been having similar probs. Im 8 weeks in and just now showing signs of a cycle. I cant figure out how I stalled it.


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## Ongaku (Apr 13, 2012)

Okay, so new update:

Dunno if its related but came home tonight and noticed my filter was putting out MUCH less than noraml. Went to investigate thinking it might be the net I have over the intake - My AC likes to eat ghost shrimp or other small fish - and when checking the filter i noticed a little bit of algea (?) on the lip of the water - out spout. I removed my media and saw some of the stuff in the filter. I reached in to knock some loose and knocked a good portion out from near the impeller. I pulled out any large chucks. It was snot-like in texture/consistency and was slightly brownish pink but not like hard core. Dunno what the stuff is...


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Ongaku said:


> Okay, so new update:
> 
> Dunno if its related but came home tonight and noticed my filter was putting out MUCH less than noraml. Went to investigate thinking it might be the net I have over the intake - My AC likes to eat ghost shrimp or other small fish - and when checking the filter i noticed a little bit of algea (?) on the lip of the water - out spout. I removed my media and saw some of the stuff in the filter. I reached in to knock some loose and knocked a good portion out from near the impeller. I pulled out any large chucks. It was snot-like in texture/consistency and was slightly brownish pink but not like hard core. Dunno what the stuff is...


Its probably normal. My son has a healthy tank thats been running for a year and theres some disgusting looking stuff in his filter But if its restricting flow it should be removed


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