# My First Tank



## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

On Monday I went to my local pet superstore to buy a fish tank. I purchased a complete kit which came with a 35L tank, 50W heater, Marina S10 filter, Nutrafin AquaPlus, and Nutrafin Cycle. I followed the advice of the store and setup the tank as per instruction.

After leaving the tank three days I introduced 6 new fish, Mollys. They seemed ok at first but shortly after they were swimming around at the top as if they needed air. I lowered the water level slightly to allow of more air bubbles to be blown into the water by the filter. Eventually three of the fish died and the remaining three were still at the top.

Today I took a water sample into a different shop to find the cause of the problem, which turned out to be the pH. I purchased a wide range testing kit which indicated the water was between 8.5 and 9.0. I have now purchased some "API Proper pH 7.0" which is supposed to balance the pH to 7.0. I have been adding small amounts very slowly so not to shock the fish but they are still at the top with their head on the surface.

Any suggestions?


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## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

adding lemon juice can bring it down and I do not know how much to add.


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy said:


> On Monday I went to my local pet superstore to buy a fish tank. I purchased a complete kit which came with a 35L tank, 50W heater, Marina S10 filter, Nutrafin AquaPlus, and Nutrafin Cycle. I followed the advice of the store and setup the tank as per instruction.
> 
> *After leaving the tank three days I introduced 6 new fish*, Mollys. They seemed ok at first but shortly after they were swimming around at the top as if they needed air. I lowered the water level slightly to allow of more air bubbles to be blown into the water by the filter. Eventually three of the fish died and the remaining three were still at the top.
> 
> ...


You introduced WAAAY too many fish WAAAAy too soon. You need to put 1 small fish in that tank and feed it lightly for a couple of weeks. THEN, add another, and so on. Zebra Danios have always served me well for cycling tanks. I can't remember ever losing a fish.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I don't know much about fish, I was just going off the advice I received in the shop.

It looks like I am going to loose another fish soon so I'll only have 2 left. I have just checked my pH level again and it is still high even though I added "API Proper pH 7.0" several hours ago. I have added another very small amount just now so I hope it will neutralise very soon. Does anyone else use this?

The Proper pH I purchased claims to automatically adjust the pH levels to 7.0. I have no idea how it knows how to do that. I was wondering if I should buy the "API pH Up" and "API pH Down" and adjust my pH level manaully myself. Does anyone else have experience with these products?

I was told by the shop that my Nitrite levels were still very high and that I had to change 10% of my water every day for the next 2 weeks. I just want to make sure I am doing this correctly. I have prepared a large bucket of tap water and treated it with this "API Proper pH 7.0" because this claims to remove chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. I have left this to stand for a few hours to bring the temperature up a little. I am told I can just pour it directly into the tank after removing the 10% I am changing. Is this correct?


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## Kirkland (Jan 16, 2011)

Fish4Andy said:


> I don't know much about fish, I was just going off the advice I received in the shop.
> 
> It looks like I am going to loose another fish soon so I'll only have 2 left. I have just checked my pH level again and it is still high even though I added "API Proper pH 7.0" several hours ago. I have added another very small amount just now so I hope it will neutralise very soon. Does anyone else use this?
> 
> ...


I'm new at this but from what I read I don't think that you should add it all at once. It seems like you should add little bits at a time so that the fish acclimate to the new water. I might be completely wrong in this and maybe someone with more experience can shed some light on this.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Agree with what's been posted already. There were too many fish added at the same time to a new uncycled tank.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Sadly I have no fish now so its a complete disaster. I am going to restart again from scratch hopefully with some better advice.

I was in contact with another LFS today to get a second opinion as to what to do. I was told not to use any fancy chemicals like Nutrafin Cycle or other bacteria products. I was told to strip down the tank, wash everything with clean tap water, and replace it. Fill the tank full of cold tap water, and add the water conditioner, in my case this is AquaPlus. Once eveything is in place, turn on the heater and filter and leave it for 3 days, then go back with a water sample.

This is what I will do.


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## Grimmjow (Jul 22, 2009)

Start there but Id try to get the temp at least somewhat close instead of overworking the heater with cold water for no reason, read A Beginner's Guide to the Freshwater Aquarium Cycle.

Ph adjusting stuff sucks, buying yourself a liquid test kit, not test strips, is a good idea.

Then take it slow and do some more reading and ask questions here, not pet stores.
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

​


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy,

Are you setting up a _saltwater_ tank? Mollies are brackish water fish (need salt) that are often used to cycle _saltwater_ tanks because they are cheap and therefore "expendable". If you are setting up a _freshwater_ tank there are much better fish to do it with that will stand a better chance of survival. Being brackish water fish, Mollies are not a good 1st fish for a beginning aquarist period IMO.

I would start that tank with a Zebra Danio or 2. Or a Glo-fish or 2 if you are after color. These fish are survivors and can be added immediately after the temp stabilizes if you use a water conditioner. Bettas also make excellent tank-starter fish, but generally won't do as well in a "community" once the tank is completely stocked. Just make sure you feed them lightly and do frequent partial water changes for the first 6 weeks and add no more than a small fish or 2 a week till then.

Good luck.

BTW... I would avoid all the PH adjusting stuff, at least until I had the tank broken-in. Your tap water PH level should be ok for breaking in that tank with the fish I recommended, and many others for that matter. Messing with the PH while a new tank is cycling just adds another dimension to an already changing environment the starter fish must overcome. You will be doing frequent water changes for a while and trying to keep the PH artificially regulated will be a pain and unhealthy for the already stressed fish IMO.


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## mjbn (Jun 22, 2010)

Agreed, 1st of all that's too many fish on a new tank, which is uncycled. Some fish can, though, survive the process. 2nd, do not change your pH. Do not tamper with it or anything. Fish are better off SLOWLY adjusting to it. I think you may have lost the first 3 from shock or something because if you just put the fish in the tank WITHOUT slowly acclimating them to the new water, it could kill. If this is what you did, then let me know and i'll tell you how to properly introduce new fish in a tank. My neon tetras (prefer pH lower than 7.0) lives in a pH of 8.5+ in my tank. They do not show any signs of stress, shock, etc. Been healthy for over 6 months now. A slow introduction into a tank is better than changing your pH completely.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Good post RCinAL.

I didn't know mollies needed salt, they were in the tropical fish section of the shop and therefore I assumed they didn't need anything.

I tested my tap water pH yesterday and it was showing 8.0 ish. I am using a cheap broad range liquid testing kit (Waterlife) so maybe its wrong? I am awaiting delivery of 3 API pH test kits (Broad, Low and High). Until this comes through I won't really know what my real pH is but I will fill the tank and worry about the pH later.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I am making progress now, I have stripped the tank down and washed it. It was only when all the water was drained that it was clear there was a horrible grey slime all over everything, looks a little like limescale. I have no idea what this is or where it is from??? Anyway, everything is clean and I am ready to start again.

I will take a water pH reading once the water is in so I know roughly what the pH baseline is. I will add my water conditioner to remove the clorine/metals and leave the tank running for a few days before testing the water.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Ever feel like you want to give up and throw everything away? Well today is that day! I washed everything twice over with clean water, and washed the gravel for over an hour with fresh running water. Put everything back in, topped up the water and replaced the lid. Swicthed on the light only to see a VERY thick layer of floating shit on the water surface. What the hell is this? It looks like white dust mixed into an oily paste. As for the water, thats another story.


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy said:


> I am making progress now, I have stripped the tank down and washed it. It was only when all the water was drained that it was clear there was a horrible grey slime all over everything, looks a little like limescale. I have no idea what this is or where it is from??? Anyway, everything is clean and I am ready to start again.
> 
> I will take a water pH reading once the water is in so I know roughly what the pH baseline is. I will add my water conditioner to remove the clorine/metals and leave the tank running for a few days before testing the water.


Don't worry too much about the PH. This will only complicate the start-up process. Fretting over that and dumping in chemicals to change the reading probably helped get you where you are. Worry more about getting a couple of small, hardy, cheap, starter fish that can handle a wide range of PH and acclimating them to the water you get from your tap _gradually,_ by floating them for a long time and mixing the water in their container with that from your tank in small incraments over a couple of hours. Ask mjbn for the technique he offered for introducing fish slowly. Maybe he knows something I don't about this.

Honestly, I have kept fish of all kinds for almost 40 years and I have never owned a PH kit. They all thrive, breed, and eventually die of old age. Call me "old school", but I have no idea what my PH is and I don't feel I need to know. As a matter of fact, I have never tested a drop of my water for anything in almost 4 decades, and I have cycled dozens of tanks without issue. I have also bred and raised many different kinds of fish that are considered to be only for advanced hobbyists. Admittedly my PH probably isn't as high as yours, but I do not think the PH is your problem. I think major _fluctuations_ in PH caused by your efforts to lower it, coupled with the usual challenges of breaking in a new tank, along with choosing too many of the wrong fish is your problem.

You will do fine with a fresh start and a couple of hardier fish. It will be important over the coming days to be able to just do partial water changes straight from your tap without greatly changing the water's parimeters or trying to "dial in" the PH with chemicals. There will be plenty of time to alter the PH slowly and safely once the tank is established if you still feel it is important.

Good luck. Keep us informed. Ask questions.

Ralph


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy said:


> Ever feel like you want to give up and throw everything away? Well today is that day! I washed everything twice over with clean water, and washed the gravel for over an hour with fresh running water. Put everything back in, topped up the water and replaced the lid. Swicthed on the light only to see a VERY thick layer of floating shit on the water surface. What the hell is this? It looks like white dust mixed into an oily paste. As for the water, thats another story.


You posted those pics while I was typing my last post. The photos are not good enough to see the problem clearly. The only thing I can think of it could be is debris from the gravel or bubbles. Some commercial aquarium gravel must be cleaned... and cleaned, and cleaned. Rinsing it under a tap is usually not enough either. You have to stir it from bottom to top with your hands over and over for a long time - hours even - while you run water through it. Even with all that the first tank of water will look cloudy. Also, some taps will send out millions of microscopic bubbles that cloud the water and look like hell too - especially if you were running water from the hot tap to get a higher temp. All this usually will clear up pretty quick. Just let it settle a bit and turn on the filters and see if it improves. I bet it does.


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

BTW... From where does your tap water originate? - A well? A public supply? A spring? A cistern?

Just curious as this shouldn't matter much. But hey, if that "oily paste" isn't just bubbles or gravel debris you might need to know what is in the water supply. I bet it is just what I call "turbulent water syndrome" - the bubble thing. I get it too and it looks bad but clears up fast and completely.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I know the water here comes from the lake district. Doesn't all public water supply come from springs?

Thankfully the tank water crystal clear, its just a oily mess on the surface. Is is not bubbles thats for sure. We'll see what happens after a few days.

I am using a Marina S10 hook on filter but its kinda noisy, especially while the tank is in the bedroom. I think its more because of the vibration on the glass rather than the pump. I am wondering if a small canister would be better? The Fluval 105 looks like a decent piece of kit. What do you think?

My final question is regarding gravel vacuums, you know the ones which look like penis pumps  Being a small tank the water empties very quickly so it would never be possible to clean all the gravel in one go. I estimate that I would only get 10 of the gravel done by the time 25% of the water was removed. This had me thinking, if I had a canister filter, couldn't you use the inlet of the canister to vacuum the gravel, providing no gravel actually went into the filter?


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## mjbn (Jun 22, 2010)

I was looking at buying the Marina S15 for my tank, but since it's pretty new (never heard of it) i didn't trust it. I'd sell/return it and either get a aquaclear 30/150 (adjustable flow rate) or a marineland penguin 150B. I'd suggest these for 10gallon tanks and up. If you have anythign under, get the same brand of filter ^^ but downsized. As for the gravel vacs, it's always a pain to vac the gravel completely. It just makes the poop/food fly around rather than clean it. I cannot give advice about that as i changed to sand recently. As for the gunk, try to skim it off with a net or something. If it returns after you remove it, then i'd say it's something in the chemicals you are using that are causing the clumps of "shit". I use aqueon water conditioner, which works VERY well. and like RCinAL and I said, forget the pH. Adjust your fish correctly and they'll do fine.


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy said:


> I know the water here comes from the lake district. Doesn't all public water supply come from springs?
> 
> *Yes, it all comes from rain somehow, but I was concerned about the treatment process and delivery system. That "oily mess" you mention on the surface is disturbing and would certainly cause fish serious problems. Even if it is not in itself toxic, it sounds like it might prevent the necessary exchange of critical gasses (oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc.) that MUST take place at the surface. An "oily film" covering that surface would smother the fish at the very least. You need to hope whatever it is goes completely away. *
> 
> ...


*You can get smaller gravel siphons that drain much slower. I have 2 different sizes that drain at much different rates depending on what I want to accomplish. If your supplier doesn't carry different sizes look them up online. You can also get battery operated gravel cleaners that filter the gravel and send the water right back into the tank.*

*Please keep us informed about the oily mess. I wouldn't put a fish in the tank until that is completely gone or I knew exactly what was causing it and decided it was harmless. Brand new tanks that have just been filled sometimes are not perfectly clear, but I am not sure I have ever seen an "oily" one. I am interested to see what some others think of this. Please chime in if anyone has any explanations.*

*Ralph*


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

AquaOne Water Conditioner? Thats the only thing I have added so far, 5ml of it. I was going to add in the Nutrafin Cycle but was told it is rubbish and not to bother.


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

mjbn said:


> I was looking at buying the Marina S15 for my tank, but since it's pretty new (never heard of it) i didn't trust it. I'd sell/return it and either get a aquaclear 30/150 (adjustable flow rate) or a marineland penguin 150B. I'd suggest these for 10gallon tanks and up. If you have anythign under, get the same brand of filter ^^ but downsized. As for the gravel vacs, it's always a pain to vac the gravel completely. It just makes the poop/food fly around rather than clean it. I cannot give advice about that as i changed to sand recently. As for the gunk, try to skim it off with a net or something. If it returns after you remove it, then i'd say it's something in the chemicals you are using that are causing the clumps of "shit". I use aqueon water conditioner, which works VERY well. and like RCinAL and I said, forget the pH. Adjust your fish correctly and they'll do fine.


I have used Penguin Bio-wheel hang-on filters for years and have been perfectly happy with them. The filter cartridges are widely available too and cheaper than most. The Bio-wheels must work well since I have never had a problem even with over-stocked tanks. I purchased 2 newer Penguin 150B's for my 33 long tank a couple of months ago and am well satisfied with them too. These newer ones have room for a prefilter too. I just took some filter material and cut it to fit where the optional second filter cartridge can go. This gets most of the solid waste and spares my real filter cartridge adding to it's lifespan. I can just remove the prefilter and rinse and wring it in the sink anytime, thereby removing most of the waste without replacing a cartridge.

The 150B's are silent enough as long as you keep the water topped off. I have never owned a canister of any kind and can't answer for noise, but I know they filter well.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

The dusty stuff is still on the surface today so I don't think the filter will remove it unless it sinks. I have tried the papertowel method but its only taking up very small amounts at a time.

As the water is clean I am going to try a different method. If I very slowly overflow the tank with fresh water, the oil shit will run off. Hopefully.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I managed to remove 80% of it using a cup and a "skimming" technique  I will skim it again maybe tomorrow or Wednesday.


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## jbonez (Dec 30, 2010)

dont use aqua one i was told to use prime water conditioner it works great i was coached myself through a cycle there a lot of great people here to help good luck


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## jbonez (Dec 30, 2010)

i use the aquca clear brand filter i currently have the aquca clear 70 its the best filter brand i think...


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy said:


> I managed to remove 80% of it using a cup and a "skimming" technique  I will skim it again maybe tomorrow or Wednesday.


Fish4Andy,

I am still very curious to know exactly what that layer of film is and how it got there. You also mentioned a layer of gray slime or something on the glass when you cleaned the tank. The two might be related. I am of the impression that you only had the tank set up and running for a few days before things went bad and you tore it back down to completely clean it with pure tap water and start over. After doing all that I am unaware of anything "normal" that could be causing a layer of gunk on the surface now. There should be absolutely nothing in that tank right now but gravel and crystal clear water, especially after sitting overnight. I say my two theories - gravel dust and pressure bubbles from the tap - have been proven false by the fact that it is still there some 24 hours later. Dust should have settled on the bottom by now and bubbles should have completely dissipated if you ran the filters. This is all very strange and worrisome if you ask me. What does this stuff smell and feel like?

I guess if all else fails you can acclimate a single Zebra Danio and see what happens. Feed it lightly and if it dies in a day or two I would say that gunk is bad stuff. 


Ralph


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I have no idea what it was, but most of it has gone with the skimming. The water is crystal clear anyway so thats a good sign.

I don't know how to cycle my tank now, I was told to leave it three days and take a water sample back to the shop. I have read the beginners guide on here but I don't know which option to use. I was tempted to add come Cycle as this is the only thing I have.


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## jbonez (Dec 30, 2010)

i would just use prime water condioner with every partial water change thats what worked for me thanks to some good advice from people on this site...


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy said:


> I have no idea what it was, but most of it has gone with the skimming. The water is crystal clear anyway so thats a good sign.
> 
> I don't know how to cycle my tank now, I was told to leave it three days and take a water sample back to the shop. I have read the beginners guide on here but I don't know which option to use. I was tempted to add come Cycle as this is the only thing I have.


I don't want to go against any fish keepers smarter or more experienced than myself here, but I have never waited 3 days to put in a fish. I take a brand new or used aquarium, put in the substrate and decorations, fill it with tap water to about the right temp, dump in the right amount of Stress Coat water conditioner/de-chlorinator (any brand will work), plug in the filters, adjust the heater and watch it work for a couple of hours, then introduce the first starter fish as soon as I know the temp is stable. Been doing it this way for almost 4 decades through maybe 25 or 30 tanks and never had a problem. :dunno:

I think the key is in choosing the right starter fish in the right quantity and not over-feeding them at all during the break-in period. And like I said, Zebra Danios have served me well for this purpose. They are cheap and hardy. If you don't like them they are usually cheap enough that you can just give them back to the store after they have served their purpose, or work out a trade. They are not my favorite either and I have taken them back many times. For a tank your size I would put in one fish a week for 4 or 5 weeks and feed them sparingly once a day while doing 25% water changes every 3 days or so. After that I would ramp up the number of fish added a week to 2 or 3 of whatever I wanted and continue to feed sparingly until about 6 weeks while continuing the water changes. Then I would go to 2 feedings a day and keep adding a few fish a week till I have what I want. Once I have what I want, I would skin back to weekly or bi-weekly partial water changes and go full tilt with the food, but NEVER over-feed. It generally takes me about 8 weeks to fully cycle and stock a tank, usually without killing a single fish.

Always use a de-chlorinator when re-filling with tap water during the partial changes. I use an old plastic milk jug that has been thoroughly rinsed and kept under the tank for this purpose. A strategically placed hole cut in the top of the handle makes it pour smoother. I put in the right amount of de-chlorinator for every gallon (about 3, maybe 4 drops for Stress Coat brand), fill the jug with tap water to about the right temp by feeling it with my fingers, go dump it into the tank, and repeat till it is topped back off. 

25 people will tell you 25 different ways to cycle and maintain a tank, but this exact method, though slow, has worked for me for 38 years without ever testing a drop of water- HOWEVER, our local water supply happens to be above average for use in aquariums I am told. I wouldn't be against you testing yours throughout the process if someone tells you it is a good idea. I just wouldn't recommend fretting over little imperfections too much till the tank is cycled. Like I said, there will be plenty of time to achieve _perfection_ after-wards - slowly and deliberately.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

Ralph


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## mjbn (Jun 22, 2010)

RCinAL knows his stuff.. I'm more of an aquarist like him, i did not leave either of my tanks empty for more than a couple hours.. You will NOT start a cycle with no fish, because without fish, there is no ammonia source. If you want the fish-in cycle, then add a zebra danio. If it were me though, I'd add two. But like RC said, "25 people will tell you 25 different ways." It's all preferences. I used a commercially bought bacteria to instantly "cycle" my tank and left 2 guppies in right from the start of beginning my tank. Everything's been better than great since then. My tank is overstocked but it is still up and running with no bad signs yet. But since i've only been into fish keeping for a little under a year, and i'm only 16 years old, I'd go with RC's advice, though i am confident in the info i am giving you myself.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Testing results...

Tuesday 18th Jan
*pH 8.0*
*Ammonia 0*
*Nitrite 0*


I don't know why the pH level keeps increasing?? My tap water is about 7.0 - 7.5 bu the tank is about 8.0 - 8.1


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## mjbn (Jun 22, 2010)

Do you have any rocks in it? pH can rise from things like that.dont worry about it.. Youre worrying to much about ph. Just take the advice RC&i are telling you about ph.


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## PandaRye (Jan 17, 2011)

I used to freak out about ph too. I think it was due to the fact that all big chain pet stores do a water test and expect you to have "perfect" ph. One thing I have learned from research and now from experience, is that ph is stupid, I hardly even test for it anymore. What is important for your fish about ph, is that it is steady and does not fluxuate. If your ph is at 8.0 then leave it, and keep it at 8.0. If it is at 6.8 then keep it at 6.8. Fluxuating ph will stress/harm your fish more than a steady higher ph. Just keep that in mind. My tanks are doing very well and I only really test for Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. I think I had more fish fatalities when I was jumping through hoops tring to get the "ideal" water conditions. All these additives out there will really only breakdown the quality of water. The more additives you put in, the more you have a percentage of chemicals and less percentage of true water.

Like they said, a good thing to do is take out the chlorine in the water get it to a good temp. let it cycle with a bio filter...and then aclimate some danios and have those in there for awhile to get the bacteria growing. Then add a fish at a time.

The only other additive I put in my tank, is an anti fin rot solution which is made from all natural resources (no chems), and that is only when I add a new fish from a store. That way the new guy (if he has fin rot) can heal and not spread it to any other fish.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

OK

I have added two Zerbra Danio and a few plants.
Hopyfully these are real aquatics ones?


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Also does anyone know what the big green bushy ones (pic 1, right side) are called?


Edit: Are they Egeria Densa ?


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy,

It looks like you are finally on your way down the right path. That is a very nice looking tank. Just feed sparingly without letting uneaten food settle on the bottom. If any does, get it out. Be patient and don't add too many fish too soon. And do frequent partial water changes. 

Mjbn and PandaRye have also offered some very sound advice. Keep us informed and ask questions. In a matter of weeks you will have a healthy, easy to maintain tank teaming with almost any kind of fish you want. Then you can cut back on the maintenance a bit and enjoy the fruits of your patience and labor. Breaking-in tanks seems like it takes FOREVER, but the time will pass quickly.

And in case no one told you - fish are like any other creature. They need regular night and day conditions to enjoy the best health. Get into the habit of turning the lights on in the morning and off at bedtime. Consider using a timer for this if you keep irregular hours. Even a dirt cheap one from a discount store will usually do the job nicely. Don't leave bright lights on in the room at night either. No light at all or just a tiny night-light to simulate moon glow is the way to go. Fish need to unwind, rest their eyes, and chill at night just like us.

As far as the PH rising, this and all other water parameters will become more stable after the break-in period. This is normal and is part of the reason you need certain fish for the first few weeks. As several have said, don't fret over it now. Wait till it is cycled to determine what the normal water conditions are going be.

Can't wait to see that tank completely stocked with healthy fish!

Ralph


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Here is another tip: Place your heater completely horizontal (sideways, not up and down) and near the bottom of the tank - about 2 inches off the gravel. This makes it easier to do water changes without worrying that any part of the heater goes dry. I noticed in the photo yours is on an angle and is therefore close enough to the surface to make doing partial water changes risky. You never want any part of your heater to go dry, even for a few seconds.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I'm quite liking the Egeria Densa (I think?) plants. I will get some more of these in a few weeks, they look a lot nicer than the other thin stcky one (4 leaves in a clamp, thats not a plant). They lean over to form a little archway for the fish so I might line them up at the back. The guy in the pet shop told me these are oxygenating plants, they did have a lot of air bubble on them so I guess he was right?? There were a few snails (some yellow crawling thing) on the plants when I bought them so I have washed them good to remove any bugs/eggs, I hope I don't have any in my tank tomorrow.

(Right Hand Side)


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

This uk website has a wicked selected of plants, and great prices... All Plants

Is there a limit to how many plants you can add, or when to add them?


I am liking these....


*Hygrophila difformis*










"This plant grows best in a nutritious environment, making it ideal for tropical aquaria, where it will protect fry and help purify the water. Does best in good light.If you have problem water and need to control algae - use this plant... it really improves the water by sucking up all the Nitrates and Nitrites."

*Egeria Densa*










*Hygrophila spec. Cherry leaf*










*Chladophora aegagropila Moss Balls*










*Cryptocoryne lingua*


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## Curt (Jan 13, 2011)

I really do wish plants had a better name then these scientific ones.. It can be so confusing... It looks like you got aquatic plants there I have the same thing you have on the right that you were talking about but thats not the name that was at petsmart.

I made the stupid mistake of buying hte plants in the tubs... Non aquatic plants.... I just removed them the other day. I like the choices you have above visually. However I dont know anything about aquatic plants this is my first time using live ones...

Im curious what people have to say.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I will double check each one on google before ordering because I want ot make sure they are aquatic ones. The non-aquatic plants I put in the first time, I took back to the shop today and gave them what for  Turns out they were bog plants.


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## MCraig (Oct 31, 2010)

The key for you is to understand what happens in the first stages of a new aquarium, mainly understanding the nitrogen cycle with in the first 10 days there is a batttle being faught in the tank through you cannot see this ie your water may be clear it is on going the process is called Nitrosomonas. the levels of ammonia and nitrite are to high an can kill fish of the major change people have is by the time the effects show the levls have reduce this is because the chemicals cause problems to fish healtyh inside and as such the die even after the conductions change, good chance it was new tank syndrome that killed them off, best to remember tanks are not really ready for fish untill 21 to 30 days after set up, using Nutrafin Cycle is fine when you understand how it works, altrough it claims the tank is ready in 48hrs this alll demends on the tank size etc. wrth this product you need to understand the signs of when the tanks ready for example in my 95 my water gos cloundly with a gren tint this tells me i only have 2 days to go before a few fish can join the tank, this comes with experiance so becare full with products like this, best thing is to be way aleat 30 days then adds some hardy fish, i a tank can take up to 6 months before it is cycled correctly , dont give up through good luck.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Water tested again today...
*Ammonia: 0*
*Nitrite: 0*

Do I need to test Nitrate if the other two values have remained at 0?

Also did a 10/15% water change after testing.


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Glad to see you are still up and running and asking questions. I can't help with the testing questions though. Raising fish wasn't so complicated in my day. All these fancy techniques, scientific home test kits, and snazzy chemical treatments weren't available when I started keeping fish and I never became dependent on them. I wouldn't know a nitrate from my prostate. :lol: I still do everything "old school" - IE experience, patience, work, and common sense. But hey, about 10,000 healthy fish born under my care in the last 38 years think I am doing ok. The aquarium store would sure love to convince me I am behind the times and taking unnecessary risks though. (And sell me everything a "modern" aquarist must have to be successful too.) ;-)

The only money they're ever gonna get from me to alter my water is for a steady supply of dechlorinator. :tease: And maybe the ultra-rare ick treatment.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I think I have already said I have a Marina S10 HOB filter but its going to have to go, its too noisy. I am looking at buying a Fluval 105 canister filter as these look pretty good and have good reviews. They are designed for 60-100L tanks but mine is only 35L, I think on the Fluval I can adjust the water flow? Also how would I change the filters round, run both at the same time for a few weeks?


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

^ Above question still remains ^

Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates are still at 0 which I assume I very good.
How long is it before I start to see an increase in those numbers?


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## shadetreeme (Oct 11, 2010)

Is there a limit to how many plants you can add, or when to add them?

Like alot of things in this world... The only limit is how much time and effort you want to put into it.









Live plants are some of the best things you can put into an aquarium. When you think about the fact that they use Light (which you already have) CO2 (which your fish produce) and nutrients (some of wish you fish produce and you want to get rid of) thay are amazing. Some folks have achieved a balance it their tanks that allows them to run the tank with NO external filtration, just regular PWC.
One thing you need to know if you want plants to do well in you tank is what kind of lighting you have. Check the bulb(s).... you need to know wattage and color temp (ie 6500k) If you have the wrong color temp the plants might not do as well and or you could end up with algae problems.
Another important question is how long do you keep the lights on each day.... Do you have a timer???
Let us know and we can help figure out what plants will work best. If you Google "low light plants" you will get allot of good info.

As for the PH... I use to really freak out about it. Some thing I have learned .....
When I put some driftwood in my tank my PH dropped .3.... I added a DIY CO2 unit and it dropped another .2. Before I started using pressurized CO2, I added some crushed shells to the tank and the canister. This will help increase ph and buffer ph swings. With the Pressurized CO2 you can drop PH fast.

SOOOO I am thinking you are wanting to add some plants.... not go for an all out planted tank. In that case .... Like I said.... Check your light.... look up low light plants.... check into a liquid fertilizer, and ..... have fun.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Its a 15W Sun-Glo 4200K.

I don't know anything about bulbs, is this good?

Its on for about 12 hour a day, manually controlled.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Bollocks! I have just come to do my daily water change and have noticed that oily stuff in back on the surface. Thats not too much of a problem because I'll just skim it off again. However, I have noticed a white slimey substance building up everywhere, mainly on the heater but I don't know.

http://img37.imageshack.us/i/dsc00906j.jpg/

Not a fantastic picture but you can see it on the suckers, the heater dial, and the glass.

Does anyone know what this is?


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## Tomsk (Mar 4, 2010)

I had that on the suckers of my heater too,I wiped it off every weekly w/c and it went after a couple of months (its a slimely goo with a white tinge?).

Tomsk


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

Tomsk, did you ever used API Proper pH, or Stress Zyme (or other similar bacteria)?


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## Tomsk (Mar 4, 2010)

I have never used any PH chemicals (Unless you add the exact ammount each w/c it will cause fluctuations in the PH which can harm the fish).
I had some cycling chemicals when I got my first tank but they didnt work so I did an in-fish cycle with a danio then added another etc.
The only chemicals I use apart from water dechlorinator is Flourish comp for plant fert and I've just started using Easycarbo for extra carbon for plants.
The tank that had the gloo on the heater suck was cycled via media off an established tank and I wasnt using Flourish at the time.

Tomsk


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## MCraig (Oct 31, 2010)

Had the same stuff on my tank when i first started fish keeping, i just assumed it was being caused by the tap water that i put in, as such i did nothing thats right nothing just kept an eye on it to make sure it did not spread everywhere, some times doing nothing is the answer if you try to deal with every litttle thing straight away you will stress the fish out all the time and could kill them of this way and think it was the problem, my mollies kept eating the stuff aand six months on are still alive, it has completly gone now, i assume it was noting harmfull really just some harmless waste left over when the chemicals have treated the water. so do not pankic to much just keep an eye on the tank.

about your cloudly water are you still using nurfin cycle because the oil stuff on the top of the water is extra stuff let over, the water in the tank is lighter that the cheamical nufin but as the stuff works it because light that water, this is beacuse it is mixing and nuteralising the harmfull chemicals in the tank and forcing them up to the top where the filter can pull them directly into it and remove them from the tank, if you stop using nufin in should disapper eventually i do the same thing tio help a long i skim the top but remeber it you than add more water and more declorineater then you put it back in and are back to where you where.

i am no expect but this is want i have worked out in my experiance when using these chemicals, sorry about spelling mistakes, not my strong point i am afaid hope this helps
ps sounds like you doing fine now with your tank ask as many questions as you can and try not to pankic to much


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## Tomsk (Mar 4, 2010)

I don't think its the water itself thats doing it (it only happened on 2 of my 3 tanks that I set up last year),I thought it was the type of rubber used on the particular heater's suckers that was involved,but it seems that other makes have had it happen to them too.

Tomsk


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

I've never had anything like this slime you are describing in any tank for almost 40 years. I also have never used any chemical what-so-ever other than de-chlorinator or maybe an occasional ick treatment. I say it must eminate from one of the chemicals you have used - maybe the PH stuff or whatever. I know you rinsed everything before starting over, but it is hard to get absolutely everything during a rinse and some may still be in the tank from before. Like others have said, don't worry about it now. Just get the tank going good and then you can try to do something about it if it doesn't just disappear with time. 

Anything in the tank now was there when you introduced the fish. I say if the fish are ok now it must not be anything that is harming them. Continue with cycling proceedures and be patient.

How are the fish doing? It has been a week or so. If they are looking good and acting fine you could probably add another 1 or 2 and keep feeding lightly.


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

With only 2 Zebra Danio they have started fin nipping, well one of them has.

I added 5 Amano shrimp on Monday but they hide so well I can't see them all now. How well will these breed in a tank with fish?


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I've ordered a new Fluval 105 filter because this HOB effort is too noisy, you can even hear it down stairs.

When it comes do I just run both filters side-by-side for a month the break the new filter in?


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## Tomsk (Mar 4, 2010)

When HOB's are noisy it can sometimes be solved by raising the water level up a bit or by using a DIY baffle using an old plastic drinks bottle (I have one on my one tank),search "baffle" on this forum and you will find the thread.

When I got the white goo stuff appear on my heater suckers the only chemicals I was using was my water de-chlorinator and it didnt effect my other 2 tanks at the time.

Tomsk


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

I've ordered the fluval 105 now so this HOB is going.
Is there recommended way of changing over?

Regarding the white goo, its either coming from the filter cartridge or the gravel.


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## Calmwaters (Sep 2, 2009)

I would run them both for a couple week to build the bacteria in the new one before getting rid of the old one.


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## RCinAL (Nov 14, 2010)

Fish4Andy said:


> With only 2 Zebra Danio they have started fin nipping, well one of them has.
> 
> I added 5 Amano shrimp on Monday but they hide so well I can't see them all now. How well will these breed in a tank with fish?


Never kept any shrimp and don't know anything about how they breed. They sound interesting though. ;-)


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## Fish4Andy (Jan 15, 2011)

They are brillient cleaners 

Mine hide in the plants at the back of the tank. If any fish flakes land on the gravel they are out, pick them up, and take them back to their hiding place. Its pretty amazing how they know there are flakes there. Within a minute they are out and gone.

I have ordered them some bamboo with java moss over it but its not arrived yet.


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## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

haha ny shrimp do this too


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## PapaD (Feb 15, 2011)

Has been an interesting 7 pages of reading. I just had a massive disaster today that sent me looking for answeres and I found this site. 

Don't mean to hijack your thread, just felt like that it would be senseless to start another since yours answered so many good questions.

I have had a thriving tank ( well my daughters) for 4 years now. Only ever had 1 fish die and that was a green spotted puffer. We had a total of 10 fish including the two glo-fish we added yesterday. Well along with the two fish she wanted new gravel to match her favorite nfl team. So we evidently did a huge no-no.

Emptied the tank completely, washed everything down, including the filter. Filled it back up, added the water conditioner. Aclimated (sp) the new fish, put the old ones back in. Presto, this morning all the fish have died except the betta, and the algae eater. But even these 2 are no acting normal.

The water is now cloudy, but from what I read this is normal. I would assume it's just time before they meet mr. tidy bowl too.
Is there anything else I should do to get this thing back up and running?

God, my daughter is going to flip when she comes back this weekend 

Thanks,


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