# need some advice please, Thanks



## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi, my tank has now been set up for 28 day's waters stat's are:
PH 8.4
ammonia 0
nitite 0
nitrate 0
kh 9
ca+2 440

I've got some question's i still have some algea from the diatom bloom on my sand and some patches of green algea starting to grow looks like little fern's it's not slimey do you think this is a flow problem also in the last 4 day's my kh and calcium have been dropping so i am having to buffer them every day does this sound normal.coraline algea is starting to grow on the rocks.:???: help:lol: Thanks


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## n1zjd (Jan 25, 2010)

Yup everything sounds perfectly normal to me  Have you added any CUC yet? They will help with the algae your talking about. I dont think its a water flow problem. The coraline algae is using the calcium which is dropping your Calcium levels and lowering your Alkalinity, just like you want it to. If you havent done a large water change since the diatom bloom now would be a good time, as well as adding a portion of your CUC.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I agree 100%. Doing a water change at this point will be valuable for the system as a whole. This is noticeable when you see that the alkalinity is reaching the lower end of the desired range and calcium is still stable. This generally only occurs when the aquarium is begging for a water change.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

how big a water change should i do it's a 200ltr tank, i have a cuc in the tank 10 turbo snails and 5 red legged hermit crabs. Thanks for your help.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

10 to 15 gallons should be fine.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Sorry just some more question's

i'm running the aqua one marisys 240, do you think i should remove the biomedia or do you think i should get a external filter just for media like rowaphos and cardon seen one with a build in uv.

If i was to remove the bio filter do you think the 8kg of live sand and 15kg of live rock would cope with filtering the water.

i thinking of upgrading the skimmer anyway to a deltec mce 300 or 600, last thing is it possible to over skimmer your water and if so what are the effects.

Thanks for your help everyone


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

marine666 said:


> i'm running the aqua one marisys 240, do you think i should remove the biomedia


I have reviewed the filter on the web site, but I can't get a feel for the water flow. Can you describe the order of water flow? (i.e skimmer, carbon, then trickle over biomedia) How does it flow?

Also, is the water forced into the skimmer, or can it bypass the skimmer directly for the biomedia?

No, I do not recommend a built in UV hang on filter unit. They are more expensive and less effective. Just buy a hang on UV.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

it go's down the over flow box over through cotton pad's and carbon, on to the bioballs, then on to the ceramics then get's skimmed then pumped back up. but i think it is possible for water to bypass the skimmer.

flow rate is 900ltrs/hr which no doudt will be when the compartments are empty.

It was a external canister with a built it uv that i was thinking about getting, along with a deltec skimmer.

Thanks for all your help


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

marine666 said:


> it go's down the over flow box over through cotton pad's and carbon, on to the bioballs, then on to the ceramics then get's skimmed then pumped back up. but i think it is possible for water to bypass the skimmer.


This is a ridiculous design. The skimmer is useless in this situation, because by the time the water reaches the skimmer the biological filter has already broken down the waste into Nitrate. The skimmer has no purpose at all in this setup. The flow should be exactly opposite of this, with all water entering the skimmer first. Is there any way to modify the unit so that the water flows differently? 

Can you post some good pictures of the unit so that we can see the process? Perhaps removing a couple baffles and replacing them with appropriate baffles will allow you to redirect the water flow.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi, I got some flow pic drawings of the marisys 240 dont know if there are good enough for you to see.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Yep. The water flows into the biomedia first. Unreal. WHY?????? What are they doing when they make these units??? It looks like a sump sytem from the 1980's, which was a time when keeping marine tanks was extremely difficult. I wonder why...

Ok, lets talk live rock. You don't have enough for your size tank. Do you have more rock on the way? Again, can I get a pic of the tank as well. A picture tells me so much that you just can't describe in a thread.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi, the tank looks like this just now


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

think i have nitrates in my tank that are being eat by the algea so when i test it always shows 0. got about 15kg of live rock and i think 8kg live sand. going to get some more rock tomorrow, i have the option of getting a deltec mce 600 skimmer tomorrow for a really good price just need to make sure it will fit.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

You really don't have any organic decay in the aquarium at this point to drive nitrate levels. As you add livestock you will begin to see the nitrates creep up when using biomedia.

The real answer is that you need more rock. You should triple this reef at minimum. Not only for filtration benefits, but for the sake of the fish. It is much more difficult to create a fish community when the amount of rock is minimal. Fish need to feel comfortable, and this means having a lot of nooks, caves, etc to hide in and around. 

Did I recommend Marco Rocks to you? A 25 pounds order of dry rock would do wonders for your tank, and allow you to make the adjustments you need to that filter system.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

sorry thats a old pic of the tank i have added fish there are two small clowns all my levels stayed at 0 for about 2 weeks so i done a water change then added 2 fish was that a mistake. do you think i should remove the biomedia or will the system crash doing that.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

I don't think you have enough rock right now to remove the biomedia. Until you can get more rock, I would replace the activated carbon in tray 1 on a weekly basis. This will HELP to reduce the organics reaching the biomedia, but does not begin to make up for the skimmer being out of place. You honestly need more rock soon.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm going to buy rock tomorrow, do you think i should upgrade the skimmer now too. Thanks for all your help really appreciate it.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

If you upgrade to a Deltec you will be happy. However, the skimmer you have might be functional for your tank size, after you remove the biomedia. You can actually turn the section of the sump with media trays into a small refugium. It will be nice. But first we need more live rock. Quite a bit more.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks mate i'll keep you posted


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Just an update, and some pic's got another 12lbs of live rock today getting another 12lbs next week when the shop has more in.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Very good. You should test your ammonia and nitrite tomorrow morning just to be safe. I agree another 12 pounds should make the tank much improved. After a few weeks you can look at removing biomedia.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks for your help, didn't think it would be possible to get so addicted to something.  thanks


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi pasfur, thought you might be interested/ or get a laugh in reading the offical info on the marisys 240 from aqua one.

How does the MariSys Filtration System work?
Water enters the system through the Pre Filter at the front of the Overflow Box where any large clumps of waste are removed. It then travels over the water Bridge and into the Silencer. The Silencer is a specially designed device which reduces the "gurgle" commonly associated with overflow boxes. From here the water travels over the Water Level Adjuster and down through the Inlet Hose where it enters the MariSys. The water then splits path, some travels across to the Drip Tray while the remaining water is fed into the Protein Skimmer. The fine bubbles produced by the Wooden Airstone at the base of the Skimmer move up and contact with the water. As the fine air bubbles and water mix, dissolved organics and proteins are "skimmed" from the water. There molecules attract themselves to the fine bubbles and as more of them are skimmed they accumulate at the top of the Skimmer where they over flow into the Collection Cup. The clean water then exits the Skimmer and is returned to the aquarium.
The water which does not flow into the Protein Skimmer moves across the Drip Tray where it is then channelled down through the various layers of filter media. Three layers of filter wool remove the larger particles of waste before the water is filtered through a tightly woven Activated Carbon Pad, where finer particles are trapped along with any dissolved organics like smells or discolourations. The water then travels through the Bio Balls where the beneficial bacteria colonise and break down the Ammonia and Nitrite into Nitrate which is less toxic and easily removed with regular aquarium maintenance.
The activated Carbon Pillow then removes any remaining dissolved organic waste, while polishing the water before it passes over the CeramiSub. CeramiSub is an Advanced Sintered Glass media which is extremely porous enabling more beneficial bacteria to grow both on and deep within it. Nitrifying bacteria are aerobic, it is important that they are provided with as much oxygen enriched water as possible. Just about all of the biological media in the MariSys is sitting out of the water, and oxygen enriched water is splashing through the system constantly. This is the ideal environment for the bacteria, as a result they are more stable and capable of reproducing faster which in turn allows them to break down toxic waste faster and more efficiently. The filtered water is then drawn itno the Power Head and returned to the aquarium. The end

Makes you wonder why they waste money researching and product developing stuff like this.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

marine666 said:


> The water which does not flow into the Protein Skimmer moves across the Drip Tray where it is then channelled down through the various layers of filter media. Three layers of filter wool remove the larger particles of waste before the water is filtered through a tightly woven Activated Carbon Pad, where finer particles are trapped along with any dissolved organics like smells or discolourations. The water then travels through the Bio Balls where the beneficial bacteria colonise and break down the Ammonia and Nitrite into Nitrate which is less toxic and easily removed with regular aquarium maintenance.
> The activated Carbon Pillow then removes any remaining dissolved organic waste, while polishing the water before it passes over the CeramiSub. CeramiSub is an Advanced Sintered Glass media which is extremely porous enabling more beneficial bacteria to grow both on and deep within it. Nitrifying bacteria are aerobic, it is important that they are provided with as much oxygen enriched water as possible. Just about all of the biological media in the MariSys is sitting out of the water, and oxygen enriched water is splashing through the system constantly. This is the ideal environment for the bacteria, as a result they are more stable and capable of reproducing faster which in turn allows them to break down toxic waste faster and more efficiently. The filtered water is then drawn itno the Power Head and returned to the aquarium. The end


LOL!!!

We produce nitrtates so you don't have to!:lol:


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

marine666 said:


> The water then splits path, some travels across to the Drip Tray while the remaining water is fed into the Protein Skimmer. The fine bubbles produced by the Wooden Airstone at the base of the Skimmer move up and contact with the water. As the fine air bubbles and water mix, dissolved organics and proteins are "skimmed" from the water. There molecules attract themselves to the fine bubbles and as more of them are skimmed they accumulate at the top of the Skimmer where they over flow into the Collection Cup. The clean water then exits the Skimmer and is returned to the aquarium.


This is good news. We can modify the bio chamber and use it as a refugium. The entire system will work well with this one small adjustment.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Is that skimmer removable or are you married to it? Can we fit something a little more powerful in its place? What are the dimensions of the skimmer? 

With a properly set up refugium, you can harvest macroalgae which becomes a safe, effective sponge for excess nutrients, such as nitrates and phophates. Along with a DSB and a few pieces of live rock, a refugium works as a small version of the display. It becomes a great place for pods to reproduce and populate the display.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

wake49 said:


> Is that skimmer removable or are you married to it? Can we fit something a little more powerful in its place? What are the dimensions of the skimmer?
> 
> With a properly set up refugium, you can harvest macroalgae which becomes a safe, effective sponge for excess nutrients, such as nitrates and phophates. Along with a DSB and a few pieces of live rock, a refugium works as a small version of the display. It becomes a great place for pods to reproduce and populate the display.


I was thinking he could use the ball valve to regulate water height in the skimmer. Then take the output of the skimmer and split it, pumping 1/2 back into the skimmer and the other half into the fuge. Add a venturi to the recirculating skimmer pump. This should improve the skimmer tremendously for about no cost. The return pump could come after the fuge.

Thoughts?


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

That is a good idea. Just make sure you can glue a baffle in place to seperate the fuge and pump housing.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Yeah if only nitrates were what we were trying to achieve i would have the best system in the world:lol:
This is what happens if you listen to bad lfs staff:evil:
Skimmer is part of a housing, at the bottom is the pump for the return and at the top of the housing it has the air fitting for the skimmer and the flow and return pipes, I seen some one make one into a sump once not very well tho had duck tape everywhere but he got it to work  . next time I'm doing maintenance on my tank I'll strip it all apart and take some pic's. don't know what to do, mod it , make the biggest sump i can fit in the cabinet, biggest external filter i can fit in- just to hold l/r and media, want to hook to a UV fairly soon too .


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Oh ment to say after adding the rock yesterday, I checked in the morning, reading's were ok, done another check tonight and nitrite had came up slightly must just be above 0 still blueish . ammonia still reading 0, so i take it there may have been a spike during the day and its leveling off again i'll check it tomorrow and if theres anything i'll do a 7gal water change that's about 12.5% water change, will that be big enough or should i do a 10-15gal water change. Thanks


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

Lets wait on the test results to decide on how big of a water change, if any. But 10% can't hurt.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Ok today's water results.
PH 8.4
ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate( less than 5ppm)
kh 8 (struggling to get this higher done a 11gal water change last week and buffering, it stayed the same)
ca2+ 440 (drops about 20mg/l every week, buffer with calcium 20ml)

Still Patches of algae on sand and l/r hope it clears with maturity.


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

By the way, it would help tremendously if you would create a signature for your posts, and have the tank size and current livestock listed in the signature. I always have to spend a couple of minutes reading this thread to remind me what the tank is and what the livestock is.

As to the water change, you need a water change to correct your alkalinity issue. If calcium is in the normal range and alkalinity is still low, AND the buffer alone is not correcting the problem, then a water change is needed. I would change 10% per day for 3 consecutive days if this was my tank. Then retest both alkalinity and calcium and add the appropriate buffer or calcium supplement.

By the way, i am not only telling you to do this, I am currently in the middle of this process with my 180. I am changing 10 gallons per day for 6 consecutive days. It happens and be fortunate that you have an alkalinity test kit to point out that the problem exists before it becomes a real problem.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

ok thanks i'll do that, I'll keep you up to date.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi, I've done 3 10% water changes the last three days and my water stats are.

PH 8.4
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Kh 8
Ca2+ 440

I added a alkalinity buffer will test again later today to see if it's moved. Any other things i should be doing to raise the alkalinity,


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

marine666 said:


> . Any other things i should be doing to raise the alkalinity,


So far so good. It is a slow process when using water changes to increase alkalinity. It is more the ratio we are looking to move, as opposed to the actual test result. You are getting closer. I'd give it 24 hours after adding the buffer and then retest. Lets see where those results put it.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

thanks pasfur i'll check in 24hrs and post the results.  I got some powder buffer off a friend to try if i doesnt move, incase the liquid buffer is just rubbish. we'll see what happens. fingers crossed


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

marine666 said:


> thanks pasfur i'll check in 24hrs and post the results.  I got some powder buffer off a friend to try if i doesnt move, incase the liquid buffer is just rubbish. we'll see what happens. fingers crossed


You're scaring me now. How about some actual product names? There is quite a bit of rubbish on the market today.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

sorry I've been using some liquid alkalinity buffer called ( reef carbonate alkalinity by seachem) which my lfs said was better for beginners, my friend gave me some (reef carbonate alkalinity powder by seachem) which has to be mixed first then added to the tank.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

firstly i bought my first coral today a leather finger coral nothing to exciting to the seasoned reef keeper but i liked it, after reading up on them seem easy to keep and will not be affected by my low Kh, got to start somewhere 

After 24hrs the test results are still the same,

PH 8.4
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Kh 8
Ca2+ 440

Tried adding a bit of the buffer, will retest in the morning and post results. I was doing some reading today and a cause of reducing alkalinity could be low magnesium should i be testing for this or is this above my level just now.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Ok now 48hrs on and have tried buffind the alkalinity water stats are still the same.

Ph 8.4
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0 
Nitrate 0
Kh 8
Ca2+ 440

What do you think i should do next? Thanks


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

marine666 said:


> Ok now 48hrs on and have tried buffind the alkalinity water stats are still the same.
> 
> Ph 8.4
> Ammonia 0
> ...


Lets see a pH test. If possible, test it tonight right before the lights go out and then again tomorrow morning right before the lights come on. Post both results tomorrow.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi pasfur here's the results 
First thing in the morning PH 8.2
before lights go off PH 8.4
I thought this was normal for your ph to move slighty throught the day, was i wrong to think this .
Thanks


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## Pasfur (Mar 29, 2008)

marine666 said:


> Ok now 48hrs on and have tried buffind the alkalinity water stats are still the same.
> 
> Ph 8.4
> Ammonia 0
> ...


You are correct pH moves. The test results you gave in the last post of 8.2 to 8.4 is perfect.

Given this, I think you have found how much buffer to dose on a routine basis. You added buffer and calcium, waiting 48 hours, and the results did not change. This means that the system utilized the buffer and calcium chloride that was added. 

You need to dose again tonight, and then tomorrow night. Test the next day. You should see it rise.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

hi pasfur, i took a water sample yesterday to my lfs and my magnesium was slightly low added some seachem advanced magnesium last night and my reading's this morning were KH 10 ca2+ 420, might not have had anything to do with the magnesium buffer but thought it couldnt hurt to try and get that to the right level anyway still need to get a magnesium test kit, i'm going to add more alkalinity buffer until i get in up to 12-13 then moniter how long it take's to drop and try and work out when to buffer. do you think this sounds ok or would you do anything different. i take it every time i water change this all starts again. thanks


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Kh still sitting about 9-10 still adding buffer. evert day in the morning my sand is clean from the cuc nightshift working but by dinner time there is algea on the sand which looks similar to the diatom bloom light brown colour has anyone had this before. my light cycle is blues come on at 12:30 and go off at 22:30 and my whites come on at 13:30 and go off at 21:30.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

How old is the tank? Have you added any Dry Rock/Sand in the last month? 

Your Alk looks fine, is the calcium still 420?


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

the tanks about 8 weeks old, i added another 11lbs of l/r about 3 weeks ago, ca2+ between 400- 420. Thanks


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I think that once your tank matures a little bit more that you will not be seeing that algae at the end of the day. How well is your skimmer running?


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

The skimmer works ok but i'm using the marisys 240 if you remember i posted the aqua one report, i'm going to get a external filter just for media and it has a built in uv light, also getting a deltec skimmer either mce 300 or 600. trying to get everything right as it going to be a reef set up. Whats your set up like, and water stats.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I have a 150 reefready tank. 29 gallon DIY sump. Berlin Classic Protein Skimmer and I have a 15 gallon refugium in the sump with a DSB and macroalgae. I have a 4" DSb in the tank with about 2/3 capacity of Live Rock.

My tests are:

dKH- 9
Calcium - 400ppm
Nitrates ~ 0ppm
pH - 8.3
temp - 78
specific gravity - 1.025


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

thanks if i know your reef tanks is running well at your levels and i can match them mine should be ok to


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

Just keep an eye on Alk and calcium. I tend to test pH just to make sure that I am not getting a false Alkalinity reading (even though I hvaen't changed salt mix in quite a while...). With that Marisys, I would probably test Nitrates also.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

oh ment to say did you see the post i put in coral reef section. took a pic of what i think is a filter feeder bit of a poor pic tho.


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## wake49 (Jul 2, 2008)

I did. I can't really see it all that well. It looked like a snail when I first looked at it. Can you get a close-up?


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

my nitrates haven't been above 5ppm since it cycled and with that filter i'm surprised doing weekly maintenance tho cleaning filter pad's, skimmer chamber and collection cup i'll be happier once i've got rid of it. if my readings are fine and nitrates are not rising should i only water change when my alk start's to drop and wont come back up.


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

i'll go and try getting another pic


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## marine666 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi got some coral frag's yesterday and just thought i would post some pic's


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