# High Nitrite Levels



## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

Hello....we have a 2.5 gallon tank (my 3yr old son's birthday present from his aunt - we also have a 29G that is cycling now) that we haven't been able to keep anything alive in for long. He started with a fancy Goldfish from his aunt that quickly died. We then got a pair of yellow fancy tail guppies. One lasted about 2 weeks, the other one is very pale and his tail is almost transparent. Tested his tank tonight and 0 Ammonia but 5ppm Nitrite and 0-5 Nitrates. I am thinking I should take it out and put it in the 29G. Would that do any damage or hurt my cycling tank that has 10 Danios? Is there anything I can do to the 2.5 to get it to cycle and stay cycled? It has the smallest whisper filter out there, and there does not appear to be any media for bacteria colonies.....

Trying to salvage teh 2.5 tank as his aunt (wife's sister) would be offended, but if a 2.5 is not a tank that can be worked with, I will get a 10 or 15 instead. Please let me know if it would be ok to move that fish into the 29G....


Thanks!


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

try putting some cultured gravel in the tank. If you cant do that buy a bottle of live bacteria like stress zyme or bio-spira


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## Matt (Jan 20, 2007)

bio-spira works best for me.if that helps any.im tryin.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

Did about a little over a 50% water change and the Nitrites are down to .5, so that's better. But with a tank this small will we have to do daily water changes?


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

well i would reccomend you using cultured gravel than using chemicals since cultured gravel has a 99% chance of speeding you up while bacteria has a 50% chance (the percentages are not facts, just my opinion


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## Matt (Jan 20, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> well i would reccomend you using cultured gravel than using chemicals since cultured gravel has a 99% chance of speeding you up while bacteria has a 50% chance (the percentages are not facts, just my opinion


True.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

matt come to the chatroom and join us


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> well i would reccomend you using cultured gravel than using chemicals since cultured gravel has a 99% chance of speeding you up while bacteria has a 50% chance (the percentages are not facts, just my opinion


I have no access to cultured gravel, Could I maybe put some bio-balls in the bottom of the tank to help create the bio filter in this tank? Is it an exercise in futility with a small tank like this?


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## Matt (Jan 20, 2007)

i dont think that would be a problem.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

no, it might work but it would be a waste of money, what type of filter do you use?


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> no, it might work but it would be a waste of money, what type of filter do you use?


It's the smallest whisper HOB they make. I really think the best course of action is to get a 10 or 15 and move the fish into that, I will use Bio-spira to cycle it fast so I can get this fish out of this little hellish space.


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## Matt (Jan 20, 2007)

i f u have no acess to the cultured gravel then ya u could use bio-balls but like musho3210 said it would be a waste of money. :!:


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

yes it would be a nice move, you could use the 2.5 for a betta or a mossy shrimp tank.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

2 guppys (males only is suggested) should do fine in a 2.5 gallon tank, it sounds as if you have sick fish, and on top of the tank cycling, they aren't standing much of a chance.

If it were mine, I'd work with the biospira. This is NOT a chemical, it is a natural bacteria culture in large quantity, and it DOES work. Be careful not to overdose the biospira, as this will cause problems. The packages are sold for larger quantity, so you'll have to do the math and measure it out, then shake the conatainer of biospira very very well before pouring out the dose. The excess biospira would help to cycle your 29 gallon, also... so it shouldn't be wasted. 

For a short period of time I would to a .5 gallon water change daily, to ensure all waste is removed from the tank right away. With clean water and good food, your fish may show improvement rapidly. It is very possible you are also dealing with a bacteria issue in your fish, in which meds may be needed. Can you post water params for the 2.5 gallon tank? (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH) Temp? Is there a heater in the tank? Fancy guppys will need a heater to do well, especially in a tank of that size. The less water in a container, the rate of fluctuation, and temp changes regularly can stress the fish. How often is the light on? Watch the temp and see if it changes after the light has been out for an hour or 2, and if so, how much of a change?

I wouldn't give up on the 2.5 gallon tank, I have 4 of them here, and they do great. It is possible to do a lot of things with a tank that size, just be aware that because it is smaller, it may end up needing a little more maintenance than a larger tank. Evaporation rates will have more impact on a smaller tank (even 10 gallons have this problem), so you'll want to keep test kits on hand to use whenever needed. Don't get into the habit of just filling the tank with water when it evaporates because this will concentrate waste levels. Always take some water out before fillilng it up, even if it's a few cupfulls. If you work with live plants and weekly water changes, don't overpopulate the tank or overfeed it, you can get it stable enough to "top off" without worry, but I wouldn't attempt this until the tank is cycled properly.

If you can post more information on the smaller tank and a pic of the guppy, it will be much easier to help you safely.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

bettababy said:


> 2 guppys (males only is suggested) should do fine in a 2.5 gallon tank, it sounds as if you have sick fish, and on top of the tank cycling, they aren't standing much of a chance.
> 
> If it were mine, I'd work with the biospira. This is NOT a chemical, it is a natural bacteria culture in large quantity, and it DOES work. Be careful not to overdose the biospira, as this will cause problems. The packages are sold for larger quantity, so you'll have to do the math and measure it out, then shake the conatainer of biospira very very well before pouring out the dose. The excess biospira would help to cycle your 29 gallon, also... so it shouldn't be wasted.
> 
> ...


As of last night the Ammonia was at .5 the Nitrites at 1 and the Nitrates at 0. I do not have a heater in there, I will double check the water temp but it's always fairly warm with the light on, at least as warm as my 29G. 

What would I put in the tank for the Biospira to colonize on? The filter is a little too small to put any other media in. Should I maybe take the Charcoal media out and just put in some large pore spongy material like is in my Elite hush filter?

I will also do small water changes daily as well and will post pics of the fish tonight. Almost looks like he has some kind of growths on him 

Forgot this, he swims near the top of the tank all the time. He does eat well though.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

> As of last night the Ammonia was at .5 the Nitrites at 1 and the Nitrates at 0. I do not have a heater in there, I will double check the water temp but it's always fairly warm with the light on, at least as warm as my 29G.
> 
> What would I put in the tank for the Biospira to colonize on? The filter is a little too small to put any other media in. Should I maybe take the Charcoal media out and just put in some large pore spongy material like is in my Elite hush filter?
> 
> ...


Ok, one step at a time here...
.5 ammonia, 1.0 nitrite, 0 nitrate tells me that this tank is currently cycling, it just hasn't finished yet. It also tells me that this water quality is toxic to fish, especially something like fancy guppys, and even more so if the fish started out with an illness problem from the start.
As for temp... the temp is warm when the light is on, but likely cools when the light is off. Incandescent bulbs give off quite a bit of heat in a tank of that size. It isn't the warmer temp or cooler temp that will cause the harm so much as the up and down all the time when the light is on and off. A constant temp is important, especially if the fish is sick.

Bacteria will culture in the gravel at the bottom (substrate) and on any rocks and decorations in the tank. While a 2.5 gallon isn't very large, it is still possible and suggested to decorate it as much as possible. The fish will need shelter, and hiding places to reduce stress, and territory to get away from each other. Stress will only add to illness problems, and can cause them to begin with. If you seek out small pieces of rocks and stack them with spaces between them, you'll serve all of these purposes with a small handful of rocks. The less dense the rock, the better for bacteria to culture in. Lava rock and tufa rock are some of the best available for this. Filter media is the other place the bacteria culture will grow. While I see your desire to get as large a bacteria culture as possible, there is no need to go to extremes. You have only 2.5 gallons of water with 1 fish in the tank. Bacteria needs waste to feed it, and thus adding too much culture will only mean that the bacteria will die back to appropriate ratios. You will end up with enough to handle the waste in the tank, no more and no less, and so long as it isn't disturbed, this level will maintain itself. That is a "cycled aquarium". What we are seeking is simply to find that balance. 

Once you add the biospira, the results won't be "instant". The bacteria will also need time to eat the waste to break it down. The beneficial bacteria we are speaking of are multiple species of bacteria. One eats ammonia, it's waste product is nitrite, one eats nitrite, the waste product is nitrate...

I would leave the filter media as it is, as this should be plenty of space alongside of the other things I mentioned for a healthy bacteria culture.

I will be watching for the post with the pictures, and I will help all I can.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. I have a fake plant and a rock in the tank now, we had a decoration in there (a goldfish statue) but took it out when I noticed the paint fading and bubbling off of it. I will be running to the store tonight and get some Biospira, and will add a small amount to the 2.5g and the rest in my 29g.

I will post some pics around 9pm CST tonight.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

Was not able to get a pic of the guppy tonight, by the time I got home from the LFS it was way past my son's bedtime so we just did the small water change, bio-spora and put in the thermometer. I will post test results tomorrow to see where we are at.


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

I'll check in tomorrow as soon as I can get here. Have a good night!


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

Ok, did another half gallon PWC. 0 Ammonia pre 0 Ammonia Post, 2 Nitrate pre 1 Nitrate post. 0-5 Nitrate pre and post. I added some more Bio-Spora to the tank as well. I took a bunch of pictures, but only these two came out.
It looks like little growths on his face and gills. His fins are are ratty as well.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

I'm confused. Where's the nitr*i*te?:question:
This one?


> 2 Nitrate pre 1 Nitrate post


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

well dont over-add bio-spira since it can have a negative effect.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

Blue said:


> I'm confused. Where's the nitr*i*te?:question:
> This one?
> 
> 
> > 2 Nitrate pre 1 Nitrate post


Sorry Blue 2 Nitrite pre 1 Nitrite post. 0-5 Nitrates pre and post.


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

ttiger72 said:


> Sorry Blue 2 Nitrite pre 1 Nitrite post. 0-5 Nitrates pre and post.


That's pretty high. I'd do a 10% water change to lower it.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

Blue said:


> ttiger72 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry Blue 2 Nitrite pre 1 Nitrite post. 0-5 Nitrates pre and post.
> ...


That's the problem, I have already done more than a 10% tonight. and every night this week. Started at 5 on Monday. Any ideas on the guppy? Is it just the high Nitrites taking their toll


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

are your guppies gasping at the surface?


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## Lupin (Aug 2, 2006)

ttiger72 said:


> Is it just the high Nitrites taking their toll


Detectable ammonia and nitrites are toxic to the fish.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> are your guppies gasping at the surface?


Swimming at the surface, and not gasping as far as I can tell.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

do they have brown gills (look inside the gills if you can)? And do they have rapid gill movement?


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

musho3210 said:


> do they have brown gills (look inside the gills if you can)? And do they have rapid gill movement?


The only thing that I can see is growth like. Gills appear to be similar in color to the Danios I have in my 29G. Kind of pinkish.


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## musho3210 (Dec 28, 2006)

ok i dont think there suffering from nitrite poisoning so thats good to know. If there gasping at the surface, if there gills are brown, and if they are rapidly moving there gills, its probably nitrite poisoning


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

:welldone: :welldone: nitrites are at .25 and nitrates are at 10-20 after a .5g PWC. The guppy is swimming all over the place has some color back and is much more energetic. Looks like we are heading in the right direction


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

The fish appear to have a bacterial & fungal problem, but it is not safe to medicate with nitrite showing up in the water. The best thing to do right now is to keep up with the water changes, decrease the feedings (every other day what the fish can finish in 1 minute), and give the tank a chance to complete the cycle. If we medicate now, it could be lethal to everything in the tank.

I will agree with not overdoing the biospira, too much of a good thing is no good. Time is the only thing I can suggest at this point, and keep water testing, every day to every other day. Once the water quality is in the clear, I can suggest an effective medication that should help clear up the rest of your problem.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

bettababy said:


> The fish appear to have a bacterial & fungal problem, but it is not safe to medicate with nitrite showing up in the water. The best thing to do right now is to keep up with the water changes, decrease the feedings (every other day what the fish can finish in 1 minute), and give the tank a chance to complete the cycle. If we medicate now, it could be lethal to everything in the tank.
> 
> I will agree with not overdoing the biospira, too much of a good thing is no good. Time is the only thing I can suggest at this point, and keep water testing, every day to every other day. Once the water quality is in the clear, I can suggest an effective medication that should help clear up the rest of your problem.


Thanks bettababy, I didn't overdo the biospora, in total about 3mls were added. I will post once the tank has stabilized, or if anything takes a turn for the worse.

Thanks everyone for all the advice and help.


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

GREAT news!! Tonight's test before doing a .5G PWC were 0 Ammnoia and 0 Nitrites, Nitrates were 10-20. The guppy looks really really good. The fin damage is still there, but his color is back and the growths that I saw on his face and head are gone :welldone: :welldone: 

I will post an update later this week. Again thanks for the advice everyone, esp Bettababy!!


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## ttiger72 (Jan 15, 2007)

Another week later another week healthier. Still 0s on the Ammonia and Nitrites, 10-20ppm Nitrates. Guppy is doing really good, his tail fin is starting to get a little better and he's a nice yellow again!


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## bettababy (Oct 12, 2006)

That's great news!!! I'm so glad we were able to help! Keep up with the water changes and all should be fine... also a good idea to check water params about once/month or so just to make sure everything stays stable. As long as the water quality stays good, the fins should heal without any problem.
If you notice any further problems, run those water tests asap and let us know, we're always here to help!


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