# Help me set up my new 50 gallon (plants and fish)



## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

I just got a new 50 gallon tank today. I gave my buddy my 29 gallon that I had posted awhile back about and from someone else got a free 50 gallon All Glass Aquarium with stand, Aqua Tech 30-60 HOB filter, 2 under gravel filters, Whisper air pump, Tetra heater and decorations. Here is a pic of before:









I got home and spent a few hours cleaning it all with vinegar/water and bleach/water and a razor blade. I couldn't wait for it to dry so I used a couple of fans to speed up the process. :lol: I then spray painted the back black. I pitched the UG filters, gravel and the filter floss. Here is how it sits now:









I am going to go with dark play sand substrate, like what Byron uses. I am considering going 100% "natural" in the sense that I am going to use real rock, wood and live plants. I have a couple nice fake rock/wood caves that I might use though...

Tank's inside measurements are 47.5" x 11.8", water depth of 19". Tap pH is 7.8-8.0, GH 150ppm and KH about 300ppm.

I really want to try live plants but I need it to be low maintenance/cost. I had some Anacharis is my other tank but it died. Taking Byron's advice and not letting that ruin me trying plants. It has a single 48" fluorescent. The fixture states 40W. Will a 40W 6500K bulb be enough for my tank? That's less than 1W/gal but I don't really have the money to buy new fixture(s)

What would be some good plants to use for a beginner like me? Keep in mind I'll be using sand. Should at get something that floats like Water Sprite?

Now onto fish. I'd really like to have some Kribs again.I tried a couple before but lost them, of course I lost all the fish from that LFS. I am most likely going to get a BN Pleco. I really enjoy my Albino BN in my other tank and he does well cleaning. I have a single Albino Cory in my current tank. I need to get him some friends but don't want another tank with Albino Cories...maybe another type of Cory? I'll be putting some MTS from the other tank into this one too. What do you all think? Any other suggestions?

Like I said this came with a HOB but I have a Fluval canister as well. Having a planted tank which should I use? The Fluval was on my other tank but kept leaking so I replaced it. I am hesistant on using it again although I got it back out a while ago to test and ran it at the sink with no leaks! Am I also correct that having plants I should only run mechanical filtration? From Byron's write up:



> Two, biological filtration in a planted aquarium may likely be detrimental to plant growth.
> 
> Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...al-planted-aquarium-part-34858/#ixzz1ezQoaG6T


So I shouldn't use any bio balls? How can it be detrimental? I hate to be running the Fluval for only mechanical filtration and have a bunch of empty media trays. BTW, I will not have any carbon.

Any ideas and comments are welcome!


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

My feeling's on biological media in planted tank (Bio-ball's,ceramic,etc) is that this media compete's for same organic's that plant's use for food.
Plant's perform better biological filtration in moderate to heavily planted tank's.
I removed all biological media from canister filter on 80 gal planted tank and filled the void with mechanical media (pads,foam,sponges,etc) with no Ill effect's.
I believe it is very beneficial to place as many fast growing plant's like vallisneria,water sprite,pennywort, in the tank from the start and as the tank matures,, replace the fast grower's with maybe some not so fast grower's ,but alway's keep in mind that low light will limit those species of plant's that will perform well without CO2 enhancement.(buy plant's that will perform in low to moderate light)
I too like sand substrate and use this as a cap over top soil and plain unscented cat litter .
Cat litter(largely clay) helps hold the nutrient's from topsoil a bit longer, and topsoil helps give plant's a good start with largely inert substrates like sand,gravel.
I believe sand on it's own can deprive plant's of nutrient's(most organic's will remain on top) that might otherwise find their way to root area's of plant's when using gravel, and by placing some form of nutrient as bottom layer,, I have seen a bit better growth.
I recently set up a 29 gal tank with bottom layer of Osmocote slow release plant fertilizer (about three tablespoon's), followed by approx one inch of plain topsoil (unwashed),followed by approx one inch of plain unscented cat litter,and then I placed nylon mesh over this and capped it all with approx two inches of black sand.
Mesh helps keep sand from finding it's way to the bottom, and helps keep dirt from finding it's way to the top.

Sister gave me three or four cherry shrimp(Tightwad):roll: and I have eight cardinal tetra's that are all well with exception of the four cardinal's I lost while acclimating.
Just sharing some of what I have done and maybe some of it will help you?


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

1077 said:


> My feeling's on biological media in planted tank (Bio-ball's,ceramic,etc) is that this media compete's for same organic's that plant's use for food.
> Plant's perform better biological filtration in moderate to heavily planted tank's.
> I removed all biological media from canister filter on 80 gal planted tank and filled the void with mechanical media (pads,foam,sponges,etc) with no Ill effect's.
> I believe it is very beneficial to place as many fast growing plant's like vallisneria,water sprite,pennywort, in the tank from the start and as the tank matures,, replace the fast grower's with maybe some not so fast grower's ,but alway's keep in mind that low light will limit those species of plant's that will perform well without CO2 enhancement.(buy plant's that will perform in low to moderate light)
> ...


That makes a lot of sense about them competing for nutrients. Layering different substrates worries me though.Sand will be new for me, not sure I'm ready for multiple substrates. lol 

I'll look into those plants you mentioned and see what the stores have.



My aunt just told me that she has some gold Platies she'll give me.I could get up to 10 of them I was also considering Swordtails, some kind of Tetra, Cherry or Gold Barbs, and YoYo Loaches. I don't know anything about YoYos. Would one be okay by himself?

I also looked it up, this is a 55g not a 50.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

chevysoldier said:


> That makes a lot of sense about them competing for nutrients. Layering different substrates worries me though.Sand will be new for me, not sure I'm ready for multiple substrates. lol
> 
> I'll look into those plants you mentioned and see what the stores have.
> 
> ...


You can just use root tabs for placing near rooted plant's and not worry bout layered substrates if you wish ,many do this.
Platies and swordtail's would be good fish for stat's posted, and perhap's cherry barbs as well.(72 to 75 degree's F)
Yo-Yo loaches grow to around five inches, and prefer to be in group's of three to five or more.
Most of the tetra's would prefer soft water rather than hard water to do well in the longterm.
More than a few rainbow species would also be something to consider in my view.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

1077 said:


> You can just use root tabs for placing near rooted plant's and not worry bout layered substrates if you wish ,many do this.
> Platies and swordtail's would be good fish for stat's posted, and perhap's cherry barbs as well.(72 to 75 degree's F)
> Yo-Yo loaches grow to around five inches, and prefer to be in group's of three to five or more.
> Most of the tetra's would prefer soft water rather than hard water to do well in the longterm.
> More than a few rainbow species would also be something to consider in my view.


So 3 YoYos probably wouldn't be a good idea then? I'll check out the Rainbows.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I concur with what 1077 has posted so won't repeat any of that.

A group of loach will be fine, this is a 4-foot tank. Botia almorhae (the Yoyo loach in our profiles, click the shaded name) does attain 6 inches, and if you can find them I would suggest Botia kubotai or Botia histrionica which are very, very similar in patterning (see our profiles) but a bit smaller, or Botia striata. A group of 5 of any of these would be fine.

On the light, a single T8 tube in full spectrum will work provided you stay with low and moderate light plants. A Life-Glo 2, ZooMed UltraSun (from Pet stores), or a daylight-type by Phillips, GE or Sylvania (from hardware-type stores) with a kelvin of 6500K will work. Plants like swords, Brazilian Pennywort, crypts, Vallisneria, Anubias, Java Fern, Java Moss, will do well.

Byron.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

I was hoping you'd post Byron. Thanks!


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

The only sand I have been able to locate is the light colored play sand, natural sand from the LFS and darker Quickrete all purpose sand. . Thoughts?


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

A little more costly but Petco has really nice black sand for $17 per 20#. 50g tank might take two bags at the most and black looks really nice, especially if you are planting your tank.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I am using the Quickrete playsand from Home Depot; I believe Lowe's also carries it (don't have a Lowe's out here yet). It looks dark gray/tan dry, but in the tank is lighter I admit. But as the tank matures, it tends to darken some with plants, wood, etc. It is basically identical to the sand common in streams in Amazonia, so authentic.

The aquarium sands that are black are also good, though more expensive as Nubster mentioned. But if the cost isn't an issue, they will be lovely. I have a black substrate in my 70g, not sand specifically but Flourite.

Byron.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

Yeah I saw the quickcrete sand at Lowe's and Home Depot for like $3 or $4 for 50# bag. Ill go ahead and get that.

Now is it better to put the sand in before or after the water?

Nubster- not sure I like plain black sand.


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

chevysoldier said:


> Now is it better to put the sand in before or after the water?
> 
> Nubster- not sure I like plain black sand.


I do it before the water. Cut open the plastic bag the sand came in and place that on top of the sand in the tank. Pour the water onto the plastic. Keeps the same from getting stirred up.

As far as the black sand, it isn't the most natural looking but it sure does make the plants and fish pop.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

chevysoldier said:


> Yeah I saw the quickcrete sand at Lowe's and Home Depot for like $3 or $4 for 50# bag. Ill go ahead and get that.
> 
> Now is it better to put the sand in before or after the water?
> 
> Nubster- not sure I like plain black sand.



You must rinse the sand--rinse, and rinse, and rinse... you get the idea. It is very dirty, loaded with minuscule particles of dirt. If you do not rinse it well, the tank will be opaque for weeks.

Once you've rinsed it to the point where the runoff water is clear enough that you can see the sand in the bottom of the pail (for several rinsings it will not), put the rinsed sand in the tank. Add your hardscape (wood, rock). This disturbs the sand and if the tank has water it will be terribly dirty. Once the substrate and hardscape is done, slowly add water, letting the stream run into a soup dish or something to deflect it. I always add about 4-5 inches of water, it will be very dirty from the previous work, so I drain it out down to the substrate and then begin filling again. The tank will still be cloudy but not as bad.

Planting: you can plant after the above, which will obviously disturb the sand again. Or you can plant with the hardscape, but be careful as some plants will not "stand" in air and leaves and shoots can break easily. Or you can plant with just a bit of water, drain that water, and then fill.

The cloudiness that remains after all this will dissipate and is not harmful. Sometimes a few days, in my 115g it took a few weeks.


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

Some filter floss goes along way in clearing it up faster too.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

Lowest has Quickrete playsand and its light colored. Typical sandbox stuff. They also have Quickrete general purpose sand. It is darker but seems dirtier. Its the type for building and the type. Im confused on which you have byron.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

This?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Yes, i have the playsand. At HD I saw the other, it was identical (to me, under the store lights) in colour and I nearly bought it as I thought it was a tad more coarse. But it felt sharper, as one would expect from a mortar-type sand, so I went with the playsand.

You can see the playsand in my 33g and 115g tank photos.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

Sorry I didn't reply before, I was sitting in Lowe's parking lot waiting for Byron to make sure I got the right stuff. lol I got a 50lb bag for $3.68 and a second bag that had lost a little bit from a hole for $1.80. 



Nubster said:


> I do it before the water. Cut open the plastic bag the sand came in and place that on top of the sand in the tank. Pour the water onto the plastic. Keeps the same from getting stirred up.
> 
> As far as the black sand, it isn't the most natural looking but it sure does make the plants and fish pop.


Good idea to use the bag.



Byron said:


> You must rinse the sand--rinse, and rinse, and rinse... you get the idea. It is very dirty, loaded with minuscule particles of dirt. If you do not rinse it well, the tank will be opaque for weeks.
> 
> Once you've rinsed it to the point where the runoff water is clear enough that you can see the sand in the bottom of the pail (for several rinsings it will not), put the rinsed sand in the tank. Add your hardscape (wood, rock). This disturbs the sand and if the tank has water it will be terribly dirty. Once the substrate and hardscape is done, slowly add water, letting the stream run into a soup dish or something to deflect it. I always add about 4-5 inches of water, it will be very dirty from the previous work, so I drain it out down to the substrate and then begin filling again. The tank will still be cloudy but not as bad.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have read a lot that it has to be rinsed. I rinse everything that goes in my tank but I'll be sure I rinse the sand really well. 



Nubster said:


> Some filter floss goes along way in clearing it up faster too.


I'll probably run both the HOB and the canister for a little bit to clear it up quicker.


Byron said:


> Yes, i have the playsand. At HD I saw the other, it was identical (to me, under the store lights) in colour and I nearly bought it as I thought it was a tad more coarse. But it felt sharper, as one would expect from a mortar-type sand, so I went with the playsand.
> 
> You can see the playsand in my 33g and 115g tank photos.


Maybe it's my computer but your tanks look darker than what's in the bags which is why I was so confused. The general purpose sand did seem sharper but it also seemed to have a lot more crud in it.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Maybe their playsand is lighter coloured in Ohio.:jester:


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

Byron said:


> Maybe their playsand is lighter coloured in Ohio.:jester:


:lol: That is a very real possibility.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

Got the sand washed and in the tank. It's about 1.25" deep. I bought 2 bags, only needed one. Did the same thing on my other tank and misjudged how much I'd need. Oh well, it gives me extra if I ever need to replace some.










I am going to use some water, seeded filter media and a couple pieces of decoration to kick start this tank. How long can I let the tank sit without fish or plants in it? I also have MTS I will transfer over at some point. If I add them before fish and plants, will that be okay or help?


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

Checking out vallisneria,Water Sprite and Pennywort. What others should I check out?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

What type of tubes are over that tank? They might be making the sand look lighter than it is.

I would add more sand. You will want about 2 inches depth front to back, and then you can aquascape it a bit deeper at the back (shallower at the front) using wood or rock, I prefer rock as it is less likely to shift. I would suggest 3 common sword plants (answering you question about other plants) and they will need it deeper in the back.

Once you have the hardscape (wood, rock) arranged, add some water [may need to add say 5 inches then drain it out as if it is very cloudy] and plant it. After planting, might want to do a full water change again if cloudy which it likely will be from the planting. I usually only fill 2/3 for this reason. Then fill the tank, use conditioner this time, and get the filter and heater running. The snails can be added once you have it filled. If all's good, add some fish. The plants will handle the ammonia and you won't even notice a "cycle."


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

It's just a standard tube that came with the fixture. I need to get a proper one.

I didn't think the sand should be that deep. I read that sand should only be 1" to 1.5" deep because it can become too compacted? Not saying you're wrong because obviously you know what you're doing with those tanks looking as good as they do. I'll add some more and follow the rest of your advice.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

chevysoldier said:


> It's just a standard tube that came with the fixture. I need to get a proper one.
> 
> I didn't think the sand should be that deep. I read that sand should only be 1" to 1.5" deep because it can become too compacted? Not saying you're wrong because obviously you know what you're doing with those tanks looking as good as they do. I'll add some more and follow the rest of your advice.


Compaction is sort of an issue, and for years I avoided sand because it worried me. But 2 inches is about minimum for sand. You can read more in my article on bacteria, the bit about the substrate:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/
You'll see from that article that some "dead spots" are actually essential for a proper balance. Also, get some Malaysian Livebearing snails to keep the substrate in top condition.;-)


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

Byron said:


> Compaction is sort of an issue, and for years I avoided sand because it worried me. But 2 inches is about minimum for sand. You can read more in my article on bacteria, the bit about the substrate:
> http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/
> You'll see from that article that some "dead spots" are actually essential for a proper balance. Also, get some Malaysian Livebearing snails to keep the substrate in top condition.;-)


Reading it now.

I kinda thought my Malaysian Trumpet Snails would help with the sand. Good thing I bought the second bag, gonna need some of it now.

Oh, having MTS and them being important to a healthy tank, should I not get Yoyo loaches do to them eating snails?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

chevysoldier said:


> Reading it now.
> 
> I kinda thought my Malaysian Trumpet Snails would help with the sand. Good thing I bought the second bag, gonna need some of it now.
> 
> Oh, having MTS and them being important to a healthy tank, should I not get Yoyo loaches do to them eating snails?


That is a thought. I have Botia kubotai which I prefer over the very similar Yoyo Loach. My loaches do eat some, but certainly not all of them. But Malaysian Livebearing snails are not easy for some fish to eat, due to the "trap door." Although my dwarf puffer got them, all except a few that remained in the sand. I know this because when the puffer left the tank, after a couple weeks I started seeing a few snails, then more. Maybe this is why my kubotai don't seem to fully eradicate them.

I forgot the light issue last time. I would replace those tubes pronto. Every time i buy a light fixture it comes with so-called "Aquarium" tubes that are too weak for plants. Mine go into recycling. Full spectrum or daylight enhanced tubes will be better for the plants and not cast that purplish hue which is what I spotted in the photos. The sand will look better then, as will everything else. You seem to have two shorter tubes, in which case i would recommend two Life-Glo tubes (measure the existing tubes end to end not including the prongs, or take one with you to the store). ZooMed's Ultra Sun is equally good a bit less expensive. I can't get ZooMed locally any more, so I use Life-Glo in all my single tube tanks, and I use one Life-Glo in all dual fixtures.


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## Nubster (Aug 1, 2011)

chevysoldier said:


> How long can I let the tank sit without fish or plants in it? I also have MTS I will transfer over at some point. If I add them before fish and plants, will that be okay or help?


As long as you feed the bacteria you can keep the tank going without fish or plants. Also, the snails will be fine in the tank first...again...you will need to feed them if nothing else in there since there won't be a food source.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

Byron said:


> That is a thought. I have Botia kubotai which I prefer over the very similar Yoyo Loach. My loaches do eat some, but certainly not all of them. But Malaysian Livebearing snails are not easy for some fish to eat, due to the "trap door." Although my dwarf puffer got them, all except a few that remained in the sand. I know this because when the puffer left the tank, after a couple weeks I started seeing a few snails, then more. Maybe this is why my kubotai don't seem to fully eradicate them.
> 
> I forgot the light issue last time. I would replace those tubes pronto. Every time i buy a light fixture it comes with so-called "Aquarium" tubes that are too weak for plants. Mine go into recycling. Full spectrum or daylight enhanced tubes will be better for the plants and not cast that purplish hue which is what I spotted in the photos. The sand will look better then, as will everything else. You seem to have two shorter tubes, in which case i would recommend two Life-Glo tubes (measure the existing tubes end to end not including the prongs, or take one with you to the store). ZooMed's Ultra Sun is equally good a bit less expensive. I can't get ZooMed locally any more, so I use Life-Glo in all my single tube tanks, and I use one Life-Glo in all dual fixtures.


Actually it's a single 48" bulb. I read you recommending the Life-Glo and the Ultra Sun in another thread so I'll have to see about getting one. I'd really like some Yoyos so I'll have to see what I can find...



Nubster said:


> As long as you feed the bacteria you can keep the tank going without fish or plants. Also, the snails will be fine in the tank first...again...you will need to feed them if nothing else in there since there won't be a food source.


Good to know. Thanks.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

> Actually it's a single 48" bulb. I read you recommending the Life-Glo and the Ultra Sun in another thread so I'll have to see about getting one. I'd really like some Yoyos so I'll have to see what I can find...


With a 48-inch you have more options, it is a very basic size in tubes. The Life-Glo 2 will be expensive, the ZooMed a bit less. I do recommend these. But if money is a factor you can also go with a "daylight" type by GE, Sylvania or Phillips, available in hardware stores and similar. Look for one with a kelvin of 6500K. All three make them, Phillips calls theirs Alto Daylight Deluxe and I have it as my second tube with the Life-Glo. Life-Glo is a bit more cool and that's why on single tube tanks I prefer it. A nice crisp white light that renders fish and plant colours true. Any of these will appear much brighter than what you have, but a single tube willnot be anywhere near overkill.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

So I got the water in, filter and heater running and put 10 or so snails in. I had the light on for a little bit and they all buried in the sand pretty quick. Then after I turned it out they all resurfaced. It is so cool having sand for substrate and watching it change from the snails movements. 

Tomorrow I pick up the plants and probably Saturday for the Platies.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

I searched all over for a bulb. No one had a 48" T5 6500K. I ended up with an Aqueon Floramax Plant Growth Fluorescent Lamp. It didn't have a K number on it. It makes the tank very pretty but it's not as bright as the stock bulb.










T8 Fluorescent Aquarium Lamps: Aqueon Floramax Plant Growth Fluorescent Lamp

Think this will work or should I take it back and try to find another one?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

The spectrum is fine for the plants, but I would be concerned over the intensity. I tried to find out more about this tube but couldn't, even on Aqueon's site. No mention of intensity (lumens, lux would have helped) or Kelvin (colour). From the spectrum I would expect a very warm reddish/purplish hue. And this almost always means less intensity, sometimes half that of a full spectrum 6500K tube. With no data, but only your comment to go by, i would exchange this.

Life-Glo 2 is ideal; ZooMed Ultra Sun same. Or from a hardware/home improvement store a "daylight" tube by GE, Phillips or Sylvania with a 6500K rating. I know these will work fine as I have used them myself.

When I bought an Aqueon hood for my 29g, it came with a tube that was useless. I chucked it straight into recyling. No idea if it was what you have, or a stock tube. But it was weak light, and purplish like the so-called aquarium and plant tubes are.


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## chevysoldier (Oct 14, 2011)

I took the bulb back to the LFS. I then checked The Anderson's to no avail. Decided to recheck Home Depot since it was near by. After asking an associate for help, we found a box of Phillips 48" T8 6500K two packs that had a T5 on top which is why I couldn't find them.

Tank looks much better and the Anubias even had streams of O2 bubbles coming off them last night!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

chevysoldier said:


> I took the bulb back to the LFS. I then checked The Anderson's to no avail. Decided to recheck Home Depot since it was near by. After asking an associate for help, we found a box of Phillips 48" T8 6500K two packs that had a T5 on top which is why I couldn't find them.
> 
> Tank looks much better and the Anubias even had streams of O2 bubbles coming off them last night!


That's a good tube, I have them as one of two tubes on my dual-tube tanks.


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