# Nitrite spike!!!



## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

Ok so here is my dilemma. I have a very well planted 12gal tank that has been running along beautifully for a couple years. I upgraded my lighting to an ecoxotic Panorama Pro 12K and things looked awesome plants were bubbling and everything (since changed it to an 8K). I noticed a slight greening to my water (not sure time frame from adding lights) didn't thing much of it but then in what seems like a day I had pea soup. Talked the the shop I go to and they recommended turning on the lights only in the morning to feed the fish then shut them off and wrap the tank in a blanket or something to block the light. Do this for a while and for a while and the bloom should just disappear one day. After about a month and a half of this with only a little improvement I stopped wrapping the tank. This weekend at about the 2 month mark and two days ago I decided to do a 50% water change and change out the small filter I was using just to circulate the water for the most part. I added the Zoo Med Nano 501 canister filter. I didn't really think changing the filter would have much affect on the tank since it is so well established and planted. I also left in the charcoal bag since I was adding back in some wood pieces that I'd had in the tank perviously. I'd removed them before because I never had the clean clear tank it was always tea colored. I did boil them repeatedly making sure there was nothing in them that could cause a problem in my tank and to try and pull the tannins out. My thinking is that the charcoal may help keep the water clearer looking if there were any remaining tannins. 
Well this morning when I turned on the light to feed them I find all my fish up on the surface sucking air and looking near death (did loose one neon). I immediately grabbed and old air pump and stone, rinsed the stone really well then dropped it in the tank. this is a pretty high volume pump and puts out a lot of air through the stone. I pulled some water and tested it to find my ammonia at 0, but my nitrites at over 5.0 ppm. By the time I finished testing the fish looked a lot better, full color and swimming around. I've read doing the 10% changes daily so I'll start that. But any ideas about where to go from here and do you see just needing the 10% changes being enough for the nitrites and what to do with the algae bloom. I intended to pull the charcoal bag later and just put white filter media in it's place hoping it would trap some of the algae bloom... 
Thanks for any help!


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

I would immediately do a major water change, 2/3 of the tank volume. Use a good conditioner.

Nitrate at 5ppm, if that was accurate, would have killed all the fish, so it seems the test may not have been completely accurate. But nitrite at any level is still going to harm fish. Won't wast your time on this now.

If you have a conditioner such as Prime or Ultimate, both of which detoxify nitrite, all the better. But no matter, do a major water change. Then come back and we can discuss further.

Byron.

P.S. Welcome to TFK forum.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

But I just did a 50% or more water change on Saturday and I just did a 10% again today. I'm using API test kits... What would you consider a major water change?
Like I said all my fish looked pretty rough this morning and I lost one. Adding the air stone seemed to help.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

You can't change too much water... except a few special circumstances I can think of. If a change is easy enough to do you could do 50% daily changes.... once you are doing 10% you've already done most of the work, the rest is just letting the water run longer.

Jeff.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Agree. You must get nitrates to zero, fast. The longer the fish are exposed to any nitrite, the more damage. If they are (or were) hanging at the surface, that is very dangerous. Are the gills reddish/brown?

Daily water changes of 1/2 to 2/3 of the tank volume. If you can use either of the conditioners I mentioned previously, these changes can be alternate days until nitrite is zero.

Byron.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

Thanks I'll do another water change. 
What could have caused that spike??? and yes they were hanging at the surface this morning until I put the air stone in and then they returned to what seemed to be normal. can't really see the gills very well my water is still pretty green... I'm not using any conditioners due to I have a double filtration system I use for my water and the shop said my water was good to go as is.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

Again I want to thank you guys for all your help!
I didn't realize you could make such large water changes that often without causing damage. I though it would wipe out your plants and wasn't good for the fish either.
Also what do you think about the air stone, run it or let the plants do their thing?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

gersh10 said:


> Thanks I'll do another water change.
> What could have caused that spike??? and yes they were hanging at the surface this morning until I put the air stone in and then they returned to what seemed to be normal. can't really see the gills very well my water is still pretty green... I'm not using any conditioners due to I have a double filtration system I use for my water and the shop said my water was good to go as is.


It is possible the nitrite test was wrong, due to the green water? If the fish store said the water was OK. This might have been an oxygen shortage caused by the green water. Much less serious if it is.

This green water was sudden, and long lasting. What exactly are these new lights, and what was the former light? And did anything else change, anything ? Have you been doing regular weekl water changes? And how much?


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

Actually the pet shop said my tap water was good and didn't need conditioners. After the algae bloom they also said my water was good and all my fish, shrimp and snails seemed to be doing just fine. I was told the bloom would just run its course. and to try the lights out blanket thing.
The light I had on the tank before changing over was an 11" Marineland LED light. Then changed over to an Ecoxotic Panorama Pro 12K LED that was much brighter and looked amazing, I have since changed it to an 8K since I found out that fresh water plants like the lower K lights better, I've not had the 8K on this tank yet I changed back to the Marineland light while doing the blanket wrap technique. Though with the 12K all my plants where putting off bubbles, and I was told that just meant I had happy plants... Other than the light change (which was done at least a couple maybe even three weeks before the bloom) at that time I did clean my internal Aqueon QuietFlow Model AT10 and replace the filter cartridge, I remember doing the change because I thought the water was getting a bit green and I though the new cartridge would help clean it up. It was right after that change that the bloom really took off. This algae bloom just hung and is still hanging in there even with the new filter and the big water changes. 
Also to clarify I haven't had my water tested at the shop yet since I found the fish at the surface this morning, they were closed today. I'm using my API Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Nitrite NO2 Test Kit and that's where I'm getting the 5.0ppm reading. Same kit I've always used and was getting a 0ppm reading.
As for the water changes I was told that since I had a heavily planted tank I'd only need to do water changes once a month and that's all I've done for the last couple years, again this tank has been up for at least two years I'm thinking even longer now and I've never had a problem with any of my chemistry being off...


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

gersh10 said:


> Actually the pet shop said my tap water was good and didn't need conditioners. After the algae bloom they also said my water was good and all my fish, shrimp and snails seemed to be doing just fine. I was told the bloom would just run its course. and to try the lights out blanket thing.
> The light I had on the tank before changing over was an 11" Marineland LED light. Then changed over to an Ecoxotic Panorama Pro 12K LED that was much brighter and looked amazing, I have since changed it to an 8K since I found out that fresh water plants like the lower K lights better, I've not had the 8K on this tank yet I changed back to the Marineland light while doing the blanket wrap technique. Though with the 12K all my plants where putting off bubbles, and I was told that just meant I had happy plants... Other than the light change (which was done at least a couple maybe even three weeks before the bloom) at that time I did clean my internal Aqueon QuietFlow Model AT10 and replace the filter cartridge, I remember doing the change because I thought the water was getting a bit green and I though the new cartridge would help clean it up. It was right after that change that the bloom really took off. This algae bloom just hung and is still hanging in there even with the new filter and the big water changes.
> Also to clarify I haven't had my water tested at the shop yet since I found the fish at the surface this morning, they were closed today. I'm using my API Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Nitrite NO2 Test Kit and that's where I'm getting the 5.0ppm reading. Same kit I've always used and was getting a 0ppm reading.
> As for the water changes I was told that since I had a heavily planted tank I'd only need to do water changes once a month and that's all I've done for the last couple years, again this tank has been up for at least two years I'm thinking even longer now and I've never had a problem with any of my chemistry being off...


It is interesting that this green water suddenly occurred, and is so bad. It can be one cause, or a combination. Changing light to something substantially different could trigger it, as could adding more fish or feeding more or fertilizing more. Here is one blurb on green water:
This is the most common problem if the cloudy situation extends beyond 10-14 days. Note that "green water" is not always green in appearance! Since green water is the most common problem and the most difficult to solve the answer needs to reflect several options. The situation that causes GW (Green Water) is usually a combination of high nitrates, phosphates, and mixed in some ammonia/ammonium. Substrate disturbance is usually the culprit. What happens is the algae (GW form) will flourish off of the ammonia/ammonium and phosphate, remembering that algae can consume phosphate easier than plants because of their thin cell walls, the algae uses up the ammonia/ammonium and phosphate, but it doesn't go away...because algae can quickly switch with nutrient it scavenges...it moves to nitrates. So you can see why water changes will not rid a tank of GW. Nutrients can be reduced very low in GW and fairly quickly by the GW algaes, but they can scavenge other nutrients...iron and trace elements. So, it's very common for the GW to solve the situation that causes it to begin with, but that won't eliminate the GW, for the reasons I've allude to. Five methods exist to eliminate GW. Blackout, Diatom Filtering, UV Sterilization, Live Daphnia, and Chemical algaecides/flocculents. The first four cause no harm to fish, the fifth one does.​Notwithstanding the solutions mentioned there, I prefer to restore the balance between light and organics/nutrients.

First, do a water change every week. I know many planted tank sources will say different, but in the 20+ years I have been doing 50% weekly water changes in my several heavily-planted tanks, I have never had problems. Algae is kept in more control with water changes, and green water is simp;ly unicellular algae feeding off of excess nutrients (organics).

The light change may have been a factor. It seems that you went to more blue wavelength light (the higher Kelvin number indicates more blue, less red) and this can sometimes allow algae to increase. I don't know the lights mentioned, if you can give me a link to some online data I will take a look.

The immediate issue is the gasping, which I am less inclined to think nitrites now, but that doesn't rule out the possibility. Keep the airstones running as this has helped the fish. Regardless of how the water looks, it is the fish's condition that is important first.

Byron.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

You know I did add a pleco about that same time because of brown algae I had growing on my plants...
The lights are at Ecoxotic: Aquarium LED Lights, Reef LED Lighting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

gersh10 said:


> You know I did add a pleco about that same time because of brown algae I had growing on my plants...
> The lights are at Ecoxotic: Aquarium LED Lights, Reef LED Lighting
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


From the name ("Reef") and having a look at the colour specs, I would suggest this fixture is geared for a marine (reef) aquarium, not freshwater planted. This is not the best light for plants, and thus algae is going to have an advantage.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

Yes what I've read was the 12k-24k light was best for reef and the 6500-8k was better for fresh water. They did exchange the 12k for the 8k. I've had the 8k at my 5.5gal aquarium at work for over about two months now and even the fish seem to like it more since they are out swimming around all the time. When I had the 12k on this tank for any length of time the fish stayed hidden most of the time.
I've called and talked to the company and they tell me their lights do not promote nuisance algae.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

gersh10 said:


> Yes what I've read was the 12k-24k light was best for reef and the 6500-8k was better for fresh water. They did exchange the 12k for the 8k. I've had the 8k at my 5.5gal aquarium at work for over about two months now and even the fish seem to like it more since they are out swimming around all the time. When I had the 12k on this tank for any length of time the fish stayed hidden most of the time.
> I've called and talked to the company and they tell me their lights do not promote nuisance algae.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sadly, these people are not always honest. After all, they do want to sell their products.

The 8000K would be better, so that is not surprising. Kelvin around 5000K to 7000K is shown to promote the best plant growth, all else being equal, and this inhibits algae.

Byron.


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## JDM (Dec 9, 2012)

gersh10 said:


> Yes what I've read was the 12k-24k light was best for reef and the 6500-8k was better for fresh water. They did exchange the 12k for the 8k. I've had the 8k at my 5.5gal aquarium at work for over about two months now and even the fish seem to like it more since they are out swimming around all the time. When I had the 12k on this tank for any length of time the fish stayed hidden most of the time.
> I've called and talked to the company and they tell me their lights do not promote nuisance algae.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


On their own, lights don't promote algae... any imbalance in the system is what does it and light is just one of the more common factors. They didn't lie about it.

Jeff.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

I wanted to say thank you! You my nitrates are reading 0ppm after my last 50% change last week. I also added a double dose of Prime with my last change and by the next morning it was reading 0ppm. 
Now I'm going to tackle the green water. Going to look at UV sterilizers today and see if I can find a good inline that doesn't have to be in the tank... 
Thanks again!
Todd


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

*Green Water Gone!!!*

Ok so I picked up the 9W Green Killing Machine UV Sterilizer and well not to sound like a teenage girl but OMG!!!! After over two months of not being able to see through my tank it's crystal clear! It took about 4 days for total clarity but there was a noticeable difference in just the first 24 hours. Really wish I'd have known about this a few months ago... here's a progression.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

Tried to post photo's but I guess I don't really know what I'm doing there... Algae Bloom!!! ( - a set on Flickr


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

Ok so what gives??? What would cause you to find all your fish and shrimp at the surface in the morning??? They were acting just like they did when I had the Nitrite spike but all the tests came back good??? The difference this time it that even all the cherry shrimp were at the top as well... I did just add a few micro guppies and a couple new plants yesterday afternoon... I did add the air-stone again this morning and everyone is beginning to move around more like normal...
Also not good to leave the air stone because it'll drive out the CO2 which is bad for the plants correct???


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157634023750013/
So this is the tank and it's plants as it looks this morning... Minus the air stone.
And can I just add photos directly into the post? I always get a question mark when I try using the insert photo button...


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

also the fish I added yesterday were Endler's Livebearer - Poecilia wingei


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Responding to issues in your last three posts.

Did you quarantine the new fish? What are your water parameters, meaning GH and pH? Endlers need moderately hard water, neons do not.

To the airstone, never mind the plants, use the airstone if fish are gasping and this relieves them.

Tests. When you do any test, please always post the numbers. What you consider "good" may not be what we consider good, and with the numbers one of us might spot something. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are important here. And pH.

The UV Sterilizer should kill any bacteria in the water passing throough it, and the unicellular algae. Bacteria on the surfaces (substrate, filter, etc) should not be affected. So what this means is that the nitrifying cycle should not be harmed. Fish gasping at the surface can be due to many things: high ammonia, high nitrite, high nitrate, high CO2, sudden change in pH, warm water, parasites... .

Reading back through this thread, I am fairly certain the increased ighting caused this, plus organics/nutrients. What are your water changes now, in volume and frequency?

Byron.

Edit: Missed your question on uploading photos. Save the photo on your PC (it should be a jpg file). Then when typing a post, in the section below the text window, click the `Manage Attachments`button. In the pop-up, click the `Browse`button and find the photo file on your PC; double click the photo, then click Ùpload`.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

Byron thank you very much!

I'm using the API test kits.
I did not quarantine the fish. 

Here are the numbers:
Tank temp is running between 78-80 degrees, the temp in the condo hits 80 during the day here lately as well... 
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
ph 7.6 + it is a darker blue than the card. But it has always been that for the last couple years and a couple of the shops I buy from said that's normal here in CO. I did add a couple natural wood pieces last week and was told that may help with the ph. 
I don't currently have a nitrate tester though I'll pick one up today.

My last 50% water change was last weekend and all tests where the same as the test's done this morning. I did add about a gallon of water last night bringing the water level up along with 1oz of Flourish plant supplement by Seachem. I use tap water that's run through a double filter system that I have had it tested and they said I was good to go, so I've not been using any conditioners during water changes. Again this has been my practice for the last couple years with no problems. I will admit that my filters are due to be changed at this time. 
I do have some Prime here and could add it to my water but I'll wait till I hear back about what you think. 

Thank you.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

*follow up*

so it's afternoon and i pulled the air stone a few hours ago and all my critters seem to be doing great. could it have been that I added a plant fertilizer just before lights out (no photosynthesis) could have caused the issue???


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

A few things here.

First, I would use a water conditioner with water changes just in case. You are using tap water which will have chlorine and possibly chloramine; while a water purifier may say it removes these, I would not want to chance it. And while I am not saying this is the issue, I will say that if there is chlorine in the water, you would expect to see fish at the surface as you describe. This is just one cause for this.

You may not need Prime regularly, depending what is in your tap water. The other issue is the filter/purifier. What exactly does this do? Is it a softener too?

The Flourish should not cause this, but I would add it in the early morning. Plants need nutrients during daylight when they photosynthesize. I always add any plant fertilizers just before th etank lights come on, or just after if I forget. Again, not likely the issue, but...

It wouldn't hurt to leave the airstone in tonight; something seems to have happened over night, and we don't know exactly what, but this can't hurt for a night. The see what transpires tomorrow.

On the pH and fish, 7.8 is good for Endlers. The wood is not likely to change this, or very little. But what is your tap water GH and KH? Check the municipal water supply website for this, it is important.


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## gersh10 (May 27, 2013)

My filter system is the Whirlpool WHED20 designed for Municipal and Private Well Water Supplies Reduces Sediment, Chlorine Taste & Odor, Cysts, Lead, MTBE and Volatile Organic Contaminants (VOCs).
When I pulled up the water municipality it's graph show'ed average KH as 119 and the other "Total Dissolved Solids" which I'm assuming is GH at an average of 266.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

gersh10 said:


> My filter system is the Whirlpool WHED20 designed for Municipal and Private Well Water Supplies Reduces Sediment, Chlorine Taste & Odor, Cysts, Lead, MTBE and Volatile Organic Contaminants (VOCs).
> When I pulled up the water municipality it's graph show'ed average KH as 119 and the other "Total Dissolved Solids" which I'm assuming is GH at an average of 266.


GH is part of TDS (total dissolved solids). If you can provide me a link to the web page I can take a look, I might be able to narrow this down.

I checked into the water purifier online as best I could; all I can see is the claim that is "reduces chlorine taste and odour." This may not be removing chlorine. When you have performed water changes previously, have the fish ever reacted anything like they did this time?


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