# Marbles?!



## Bandy0390 (Mar 1, 2011)

Do people actually use Marbles as a normal substrate? Really? I have heard of using this for breeding purposes so that the eggs fall between and the parents cant eat them...but other than that, does anyone here have pics of that? I would love to see them, I have never actually seen a tank with Marble substrates.


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## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

I dont see a problem with marbles as a regular substrate


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## Bandy0390 (Mar 1, 2011)

Oh no, I don't see a problem either, I just have never seen it. ha I tried googling, but didn't really find anything. haha


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## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

oh, well i say get colored marbles and it might look good


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Generally,, the same principal that allows eggs to Fall through the marbles where fish can't get them,allows uneaten food,poop, to also fall through.
Some also suggest that fishes don't really appreciate or like ,,light reflecting off such a substrate and then perhaps stessing fishes who for the most part,,would enjoy darker substrates,less light.
Some who keep Betta's claim their fish" likes to play with the marbles" but perhaps ,just maybe,,they are simply irritated by the light reflecting from the marbles and are seeking to move them for same reason?


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

1077 said:


> Generally,, the same principal that allows eggs to Fall through the marbles where fish can't get them,allows uneaten food,poop, to also fall through.
> Some also suggest that fishes don't really appreciate or like ,,light reflecting off such a substrate and then perhaps stessing fishes who for the most part,,would enjoy darker substrates,less light.
> Some who keep Betta's claim their fish" likes to play with the marbles" but perhaps ,just maybe,,they are simply irritated by the light reflecting from the marbles and are seeking to move them for same reason?


The only fish I have heard don't like reflective substrate are neon tetras, but that doesn't mean others don't also have a problem with it. I use regular marbles, as well as the flattish glass drops, but not as the whole substrate, only as accent on top of gravel. 

Marbles would probably do well in a tank that gets 100% water changes, since they would be easy to rinse off. Yes, the poop, uneaten food, etc., would sink between the marbles, but by the same token it would also come out easily.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Amethyst123 said:


> The only fish I have heard don't like reflective substrate are neon tetras, but that doesn't mean others don't also have a problem with it. I use regular marbles, as well as the flattish glass drops, but not as the whole substrate, only as accent on top of gravel.
> 
> Marbles would probably do well in a tank that gets 100% water changes, since they would be easy to rinse off. Yes, the poop, uneaten food, etc., would sink between the marbles, but by the same token it would also come out easily.


No forest fish likes bright or reflective substrates. In fact, I can't think of any fish that "likes" a reflective substrate.

Almost all the fish we maintain in aquaria occur in water with a dark substrate. There are exceptions, some occur over tan-coloured sand. But even this is still not "bright" due to the forest canopy shading the water as well as frequent wood and leaf litter. Darker substrates absolutely mean less stressed and therefore healthier fish. Several years ago Dr. Stanley Weitzman had articles mentioning this.

I have personal experience with substrate colours and several species of Amazonian forest fish. There is not the remotest question that given the choice, they prefer dark substrates. Their colour (fish can lighten and darken their cells according to their environment) and their behaviours (more out and about, less "hiding") over darker substrates is undeniable.

The colours of the fish themselves are another clue to this. Viewed from above, they are intended to blend in with the substrate to fool predators; viewed from below they are lighter coloured to blend in with the surface.

All this should be considered when selecting a substrate. Fish forced to live over something un-natural will be under stress, and that weakens the immune system and cause many other problems.

As for the issue of marbles trapping debris, this is significant too. Food that falls between marbles will not be eaten as the fish can't get to it. There it will decompose. And whereas a substrate of sand or fine gravel (or soil) has the right porousness to encourage the host of bacteria that handle this naturally, this is less in a large-sized substrate material.

Byron.


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## Amethyst123 (Mar 4, 2011)

Byron - what you say makes sense. I wasn't saying that other fish were fine with reflective surfaces, only that I had only heard it about neon tetras.


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Amethyst123 said:


> The only fish I have heard don't like reflective substrate are neon tetras, but that doesn't mean others don't also have a problem with it. I use regular marbles, as well as the flattish glass drops, but not as the whole substrate, only as accent on top of gravel.
> 
> Marbles would probably do well in a tank that gets 100% water changes, since they would be easy to rinse off. Yes, the poop, uneaten food, etc., would sink between the marbles, but by the same token it would also come out easily.


 
No ,Marbles are poor for use as substrate for reasons mentioned by both Byron, And myself.
I strive to offer info that will give the new hobbyist the best chance with their fishes with least amount of problems .


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Amethyst123 said:


> Byron - what you say makes sense. I wasn't saying that other fish were fine with reflective surfaces, only that I had only heard it about neon tetras.


No problem. I felt it important to explain the issue, as others reading this thread, especially beginners, could think that aside from neons it is fine. I wanted to set the record straight.;-) B.


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## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

what if one used a granite slab as substrate for egg layers tank. I think it would be very intersting


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## Mat Rob (Jan 28, 2011)

*What about agates.*

I collect and polish agates and rocks. I want to know if they are ok to put into tank. On top of the regular gravel not just the rocks.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Christople said:


> what if one used a granite slab as substrate for egg layers tank. I think it would be very intersting


Provided there is a base of gravel, with the granite slab pushed down into it so as to leave no accessible areas under the slab, fine. I have used pieces of slate partially set into the gravel in tanks to create open areas where plants would otherwise spread.


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Mat Rob said:


> I collect and polish agates and rocks. I want to know if they are ok to put into tank. On top of the regular gravel not just the rocks.


Agates are probably fine. Other rocks too, provided they are not calcareous as this would raise hardness and corresponding pH that is fine in livebearers and rift lake cichlid tanks but not in soft water fish tanks.


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## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

I might get some slate today so we will see how that goes


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Christople said:


> I might get some slate today so we will see how that goes


I probably should have asked previously what the intention was behind this, as there is something i forgot to mention, and that is dead spots. Any slab of rock laid on the substrate will cause a dead spot beneath it, where anaerobic bacteria will occur. OK in itself if limited, but too many such spots can cause nitrogen gas to build up and harm if not kill fish and plants. When I used the slate, it was small bits, maybe 4-5 inches by 2 inches max, and only a couple. Just to keep clear areas in front for feeding corys, as the pygmy chain swords sent out runners so fast I was trying to keep them aways from a couple areas.


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## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

so to prevent this would I just move around the rocks every water change or what should I do. Is there a way to prevent this or do I have to jsut deal with it?


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## Byron (Mar 7, 2009)

Christople said:


> so to prevent this would I just move around the rocks every water change or what should I do. Is there a way to prevent this or do I have to jsut deal with it?


If you want a chunk of rock as "the" substrate, I would place it on the tank bottom and then push the substrate gravel/sand around it. So that the rock itself is at the bottom with no substrate matter under it to cause trouble.

A few rocks or pieces of wood here and there is no real issue. I got the impression that you were thinking of a significant area of the substrate being this large rock, and that should be on the tank bottom.


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## redchigh (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about play sand, but if you are considering using something like one huge piece of slate on the bottom, I would definately place about a half inch of sand on the bottom first to cushion the rock and protect the bottom pane of glass in the tank...


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## Christople (Sep 7, 2010)

I was not planning on doing this but just curiosity brought the question up.


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